Maxim #112: Never underestimate the sneaky lengths to which a woman’s female friends will attempt to undermine her relationship with a boyfriend or husband they don’t approve of.
I was walking with a girl when one of her close female friends called. I listened in on the side of the conversation available to me.
“I’ve found the perfect guy for you… You’d really like him…. No, he’s really cute…. Do you remember Ben from Mischa’s party?…. Yes!, isn’t he funny?…. Oh you guys would be so perfect together…. I know I know….. So what?….. Oh don’t be such a worrywart…. I heard he’s a really good dancer too…. Maaaaaaybe I’ll invite him out after our Yoga class…. *laugh*…”
I knew her girl friend on the phone. She was a cute Asian girl, 28 years old, currently dating a white man in his 50s. They had been dating for over a year when we were all introduced at a party once. I remember the man was in shape and presentable, though he looked his years, with a neatly coifed head of silver hair. I was told he was an excellent tango dancer and that’s how they met. I was also told by third parties that he was uninterested in marriage or children, preferring the freedom of his bachelor life. I was naturally intrigued by this man because I am compelled to give props to any older man without obvious compensatory means who is able to bag a much younger and cuter chick on his terms. I observed them closely at the party, and noticed the Asian girl’s obvious love and devotion for him as she tenderly rested her hand on his knee. For his part, he looked at her with pride and love, and struck the acceptable alpha pose of a man in control of his love life (satisfied, borderline smug, smile coupled with glances of affection and contented stares into the distance.)
In other words, there was no evidence the Asian girl friend on the phone was dissatisfied with her older gentleman boyfriend.
Before their phone conversation was over, I leaned into the mouthpiece and shouted “Homewrecker!” The girl with me giggled.
Laugh it up, muffball.
I asked my woman companion why, if her girl friend was happy with her boyfriend, she was trying to set her up with another man? I was offered a pu pu platter of Rationalizing Hamster savories.
“But he doesn’t want kids and I know she does.”
“Did you ask him personally if he doesn’t want kids? Did you ask her if she wants to leave him because of the kids issue?”
“It’s not just the kids. He likes to stay indoors and do his own thing, and she’s just doing what he wants to do. They’re not compatible.”
“You’re absolutely positive she’d rather be out hanging with the girls instead of staying at home with him?”
“Yes, she’s a fun girl. She would be happier with someone on her wavelength.”
“She seems pretty happy right now with him.”
“He’s not serious about her.”
“Are you a mindreader?”
“Stop it. It’s a girls thing. We have intuition about this.”
“Don’t hate on love.”
If you’ve ever harbored doubts about the inherently evil nature of women as you diligently polish the porcelain pussy pedestal in your head which refuses to dislodge itself, look no further than the scheming, manipulative ploys women will happily pursue in service to destroying the love between a female friend and a man they don’t think is “appropriate” for her.
Love, as fragile, rare, and transcendent as it is, means nothing to women when the man in question offends their hypergamous sensibilities and their urge to conformity. It doesn’t even matter if the man is not their own lover. They will seek and destroy anything which subverts the established pussy order.
so what’s the evolutionary explanation for female meddling?
Asians chicks do this seldom, in my experience.
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@spandrell
To break apart the lovers so the woman can
1) Fuck the dude themselves
or
2) Feel good that none of her friends have found love like her.
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I just put up a related post. Your girlfriend’s “friends” really are your worst enemies.
so what’s the evolutionary explanation for female meddling?
This is just rationalizing, but if woman A gets the alpha’s genes in her children, but woman B doesn’t, then B’s children will be at a relative disadvantage.
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The guy doesn’t want to ever get married. If she wants to get married then she better leave him now before she’s late 30’s and realizes she’s wasted her time. Friends have to tell you what’s better for you even if you’re too stupid to understand it.
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Overcoming jealousy
1) Learn why you have those emotions (there is an evolutionary reason for them)
2) Understand when they creep up on you and why.
3) Respond appropriately taking into account the other players emotions as well as your own.
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Expanding on 3.
If you love the other players (as you should if they are trying to better themselves, stay out of it or use your brain to reason why you want what you do with the others). If you’re dealing with sex, it’s best to stay out for obvious reasons. They need to work that shit out between themselves, not with your input.
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Seconded, Little Piggy. I had been with a girl for nearly 8 years, fully blossomed and actual love between us and maintained throughout the time, and a friend of hers who’d I’d inadvertently “offended” once a few years back finally convinced my slice of heaven to go out and “play the field” again a few months back. All of their other friends know exactly how it happened, are were so startled by the breach of reality that they told me, in no uncertain terms, that this was High Bitchery of shocking new orbits.
Heaven still comes to play, confused by her own irrational choices. Her friend continues to be take her love out on her miniature dog. And I’ve got a couple new, talented friends.
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As a corollary, I’ve learned that you should always encourage a female friend to stay with her man. It sets you apart from the orbiters and will actually cause her to second-guess her judgement for a reason I can’t quite fathom.
It’s no good for getting out of the friend zone, but the girl will have no issues introducing you to her friends as clearly you’re not the jealous, beta type.
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@ Charlie
You are a dumbass beta. Go back to Love Shack.
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Just the fact that he is 50 really gives me encouragement. I started a little later in the game than I wish I had, but still have a long wasy to go. Of course everyone wishes they found game 5-10 years earlier.
Fortunately I have quite a few years of knowledge to build from before I had game.
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This is the principal obstacle to dating hot girls in their early 20s in church. She may like you, but if her friends think you are too old for her (and the social circles in church can be very judgmental about this), you are done. And she will pay special attention to what her hot friends think. Usually the ugly chicks and fatties will actually be on your side. Because they would date you in a heartbeat. As a side note, if you prefer youth to beauty and you have some game, you can pretty easily date non fat 6s in their early 20s in church.
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I’ve been dating this smoking hot chick for about three months now. Chick is banging hot and totally into me. I’ve played the aloof easy going card the best I’ve played it in quite some time. Chick is bringing me food at night, rubbing my back, and whispering sweet nothings into my ear on a regular basis. I’d say her interest level is in the 90’s.
Then this thing just came out her mouth the other day.
Turns out there was this event she was going to on Saturday to honor her friend’s birthday. She asked me if I wanted to go and i said “nah, just going to hang with the boys tonight, have a little guy time.”
So the girl i’ve been dating goes over to the party and one of the other girls goes “where is Ari?” and the girl I’m banging goes “ah, he just wanted to relax tonight, he isn’t coming.”
And the girl goes quote “you put up with far more than I would.”
And bells just went off in my head. Here you have this girl that i’m banging, she is happy, she is doing well, and then her cock sucking whore friend throws something into the water like a comment like that. Just unreal.
A total Kamikaze mission. I guess the attitude is “if i can’t be happy, none of my friends can.”
You are right, women will do anything to disturb the peace and tranquility of her friend if she feels like her friend isn’t living the life that she “thinks” her friend should lead.
Women are evil.
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It sounds to me like she’s right though, no? Obviously you’re going to defend the guy who’s like you, but at the same time, you know that if it was your daughter you’d be trying to break them up too.
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Thursday,
I have found the opposite to be the case. Lonely fat girls are usually jealous of their attractive friends who have the right combination of looks & personality to attract and keep a desirable man.
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Women’s mothers can be the worst in this regard — even when their daughters are married!
This is probably the most important reason patrilocal marriage practices are the norm throughout the world. The Koreans even have a saying:
“Mother-in-laws are like outhouses — best kept a good distance from the home.”
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I have dealt with this before. Women are pure evil. Fortunately if one is alpha enough the meddling wont do anything but angry your woman.
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It seems like women sabotage for two contradictory reasons: (1) A misfiring of their hypergamous selectiveness that which causes them to undermine a friend’s ‘inadequate’ boyfriend as if it they were dating him themselves and (2) evolutionarily competitive jealousy which motivates them to try to arrogate for themselves the best genes. (ie. whether you are alpha or beta you are still at risk of sabotage)
(1) might not be such a misfire because if they allow the inadequate to mate with their friends it may mean poor genes will saturate their groups off-spring leaving less of an opportunity of high quality future mating for their off spring. It may also lead to various other deficiencies in their group.
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I won’t deny the fact that females are meddlesome and very liberal when it comes to splashing around the haterade, but I don’t know if I fully agree with your asessment of the situation. To me, this sounds like a case where she honestly doesn’t like the bf.
In my experience women rarely hate on the boyfriend when they’re jealous. Jealous hating is usually directed at the female, and in the case of trying to break up the couple, almost whispered into the ear of the man. Think about it, if her friends really wanted to hook up the man, would they risk alientating him by trying to break up his happy relationship against his will?
Like men, women tend talk trash about their friend’s s.o. when they think he’s whack. It’s similar to us giving one of the homies the business for batting well below his average with a shrill shrew of a gorgon troll. The only exception is when she has already fucked the bf.
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The issue of motivation is a curious one, however- I think that the issue ultimately comes down to that of derived status.
One of the primary purposes of status seeking in women is to determine the social heirarchy within their peer group; status determines who’s on top and who’s on bottom.
Women derive their status, to a large degree, from the man that they’re with- his accomplishments, alphaness, and status are integral component of how her peer group judges her worthiness and the position she should have within the social heirarchy.
Women, who view themselves as on top of the heirarchy, will use whatever methods they can to undermine challengers to her position on the upper tier of the status pyrmaid- including undermining a mate choice that could potentially boost the status of a rivial above her own; in other words- she wants her friend to have more of a loser boyfriend so she looks better in comparison.
In this particular situation- Roissy gives off the vibe of Alpha male. So does the other girl’s boyfriend. This poses a problem for a woman who snags an Alpha male is, by definition, an Alpha female. An Alpha female is a threat to the position of another Alpha female. Roissy’s girl was using social pressure to eliminate the other Alpha male, whom she viewed as a threat, in order to get her friend a beta male which would secure her position as (top) Alpha female.
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Great post. Glad you took a break, R – you’ve come back better than ever.
This is terrifyingly true. Women will casually sabotage other women’s relationships, even marriages, destroying lives (even children’s lives) along the path of Gynapocalypse, and smile all the way, never losing a wink of sleep or pausing for a second’s introspection (I won’t say guilt, since few women seem to ever feel that one; guilt is a male speciality).
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“We have intuition about this.” If a guy said this about anything, anything at all, we’d never hear the end of it.
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Chicks are evil you got that right. It’s not just that they want to destroy other chicks relationships that they don’t approve of. It is more that they are so jealous of each other that they can’t stand it when another woman is happy.
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Game the friends, not for loving, but for attraction, so that they don’t have bad things to say about you, and if they do, you find out about it, and teach them a lesson about meddling.
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But she sounds correct. The friend wants to get married and have kids. The guy…doesn’t. Why let the friend waste her time, when she could be with a guy who wants the same things in life as she does. Love can only take you so far, and the rush of chemicals fades after a while. Better to get the friend out of the guy’s orbit before she wastes too much of her prime years.
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This is an excellent example of the meta-game of female hypergamy. So all-encompassing is feminine hypergamy that it must be played out vicariously through 3rd parties when it’s perceived that another female doesn’t understand or will not act on the global hypergamy. The application to mothers and daughters is obvious, but even when one woman has “topped out” in her own hypergamy, and has no motivation to seek a higher man, she’s still acutely sensitive to hypergamous imbalances in her friends and will seek to top them out.
You’ll notice that this woman’s self-primary concern (marriage, children, commitment) are all presumed to be the same as the Asian girl’s. Without so much as an afterthought this is the presumed position of normalcy, and only her definition is suitable for compatibility.
There’s your evolutionary psychology. Women will never betray the sisterhood in whole. They will still in-fight in the particular, but the default response when womanhood in the general is attacked is to defend with prejudice. The feminine mystique (women are always unknowable), the feminine prerogative (she can always change her mind), default victimhood, etc. are all just feminine social conventions with the latent purpose of facilitating female hypergamy.
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Use the power of the friend to your advantage – win the favor of the HB’s friends and you win the HB.
Normally, you should be so fucking alpha that her friends don’t matter much, but when a chick is out of your league sometimes you need to get the social proof in her circle first.
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Women fight for status among themselves while men try and climb the dominance heirarchy by accomplishing things. There is a big difference between the two. The problem with status is that it is ephemerial. A women who is attractive needs to capitalize on that status asap (for men that is the only status that counts). It is a perishable power because it is tied to age, looks, fame, and health. Marriage, children, alimony, child support are all tangible benefits that can be derived from their “status”. Everything else associated with status is consumed for pleasure or to massage the ego. This is why women are always so attracted to “BSOs” or Bright Shiney Objects. Homes, cars, clothes, etc. are all objects that can be converted into status. Henry Kissinger once said, “power is the ultimate aphrodiesiac”. He really meant that for men. For women it is status.
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Women hate each other a lot, and are constantly scheming to screw each other over.
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What is up with these DC girls. I’ve seen the same move recently. They wanted to displace a mutual friend’s live-in-bf because he wasn’t fun enough.
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Dear Girlfriend,
Thank you for bringing me to my senses when I dated that older man. You knew I could do better, twisted my arm, and armed me with useful dialogue to end it. Your instincts were on target, and soon after I met my future husband. I am eternally grateful.
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@ Ari
Wow. This is really insidious shit—but it’s all too common. How do you intend to handle the situation moving forward? Might make for nice test of your Game….
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I agree that women tend to meddle in their friends relationships, but the case you presented is a bad example. The Asian girl is 28, so she’s already at an age were her fertility has peaked and is beginning to decline. If she really wants kids then she needs to get on that now. “Whoops” pregnancies are evil, so if older guy doesn’t want kids, and the girl was my friend, I’d be telling her the truth about how much time she really has left to reproduce.
Alphas come and go (ha!) but longterm the thing that really makes women happy and fulfilled is children. It’s a very bad idea to waste her last few fertile years with a man who doesn’t want kids. Doubly so if she is deluded enough to think, or hope, he’ll change his mind.
She should leave him and get a nice beta husband. Sounds like the guy has enough game to get himself another younger chick, so good for him. I’ve got no problem with big age differences in relationships, if anything I think that they work better if the guy is considerable older. But, the baby thing is a huge issue. Pretty much every childless 40 year old woman has huge regrets about missing out on family. I wouldn’t want a friend of mine to be left barren, with the consolation prize of a boyfriend in his mid to late sixties.
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Dealing with a significant other’s friends can be such a no win situation. I recently got out of a LTR where the girl had virtually no friends, and the few she did have she completely 86’d for me, including the type of underminers described in this post.
At the time I considered this a nice bonus, not having to contend with female groupthink when all I was trying to do was kick it with my girl and fuck. But 3+ years later I found out the flipside of this dark character trait when I got 86’d…for a new group of friends in her new grad school. All the new friends were much younger than her and I. All were walking arrogant, PC grad school stereotypes. None could stand my realist viewpoint on the world. And I’m sure most if not all were undermining like a motherfucker.
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Welmer, no mother in her right mind wants to see her daughter degrading herself.
There’s a difference between interfering with an actual couple, and saving a friend or family member from a self hating “emotional connection” with an ego parasite.
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What is up with these DC girls. I’ve seen the same move recently. They wanted to displace a mutual friend’s live-in-bf because he wasn’t fun enough.
This (among other things) is what makes any kind of LTR such a goddam headache in this affluent and hypergamous age. In the old days, men generally were the ones who “moved about” in the world, and the women tended to be less experienced. Men-as-such tended to have a kind of mystique in womens’ minds, being as they held the ticket to a world that women had little knowledge of — the world of business, travel, leisure, etc.
Now that women have gorged themselves on all that our modern age has to offer, it is very often THEY who are the ones who have done more, seen more, know more than the men in their lives. This wouldn’t in itself be a problem if it weren’t for that pesky little hypergamy thing they have.
What I mean is that a well-rounded guy, a guy who is up to date on current events, who imbibes a moderate amount of pop-culture, and has socialized a fair bit in the nightlife and watering holes commensurate to his station in life, can very often be percieved as some kind of boring shut-in by big city women galavanting about town. These women have all their little promotional parties, art showings, club promoter hook-ups, etc., that their lives are a whirlwind of activity. To the social climbing male scenesters, this isn’t a problem, since they are out there every night, too.
But when a dude wants to relax in an LTR, do you think he wants to go out partying every night? Hell no. If he did he would just keep swinging the bachelor life. More likely he is content to stay home and occupy himself with more substantial (if muted) interests.
And then you get his GF’s cunt friends trying to drag her out all the time, insinuating her BF is “boring” and “no fun”, sometimes whispering tales of this or that guy in the “scene” who is just sooooooo hot and cool and fun.
Fuck that shit. The minute a guy in a LTR relents and tries to keep the pace with those folks, he has given up the frame and will be single soon enough. Either the bitch gets with the program or she can get out.
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Roissy…. Nail…. Head… Hit… SmoothVirus must have leaked my #1 rule of relationships:
“Control who is in your womans circle of friends in any manner possible.”
Nothing will trash you or uplift you faster.
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B*tches
Ain’t
Sh*t.
*two cents*
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Call it white-knighting if you wish, but the girl is right on this one.
the guy is 50+, happy as a bachelor, is not exactly rich, while the Asian chick is 28, an age better understood as “30 minus 2”. The girls feel, just like I do, that this is such an obvious pump and dump case that the right thing for any friend to do is to try to end the relationship.
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I have a friend who I watched get sabotaged by his girlfriend’s “friends”. When he was first telling me about the relationship, which was long distance, I asked him about her friends.
She had one who was an aging hoe who hadn’t yet found her retirement plan. I warned him that this was going to be the one to put poison in his girlfriend’s ear, and this was exactly what happened.
So how does a guy deal with a woman’s “friends” in a long distance situation? Is it possible?
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for women friends are just enemies you didn’t know you had yet
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Your girlfriend was being a good friend. If the Asian girl wants marriage and children, she is wasting her time with the much-older boyfriend, since he has no interest in either. Since she is 28 (prime marrying age), every year she spends with him will reduce her ability to find what she wants since 1. most people will be marrying off 2. she will be aging and become less attractive and 3. her fertility will start to fall.
And if she does pass up marriage and children for love with the boyfriend, there’s a good chance they will break up anyway (since relationships with such a large age gap tend to be much more unstable). In the best case scenario, they stay together and she spends her 40s as a nurse, to be left alone and childless just as she’s lost her fertility and most of her sexual market value.
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How different is a guy who strings along a girl in her waning years of fertility from a girl who cuckolds her man?
Granted, in this case the 50yo is upfront with the Asian girl about not wanting kids, but a gamed woman has limited ability to make sound decisions. So her frineds are right.
If that 20yo were my sister, the 50yo would likely get his ass beaten.
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So it’s now ok to say that women are evil (or inferior), while it’s not ok to say that Jews are evil or blacks are less intelligent?
The older guy did so well with the girl because she’s Asian. If she were a good looking white girl, it could be different. But the important part is that – you hate (or are intimidated by) women so much that you make irrational, biased assumptions about them. The girlfriend didn’t meddle with her friend’s life because she’s “evil”, but because she cares about her friend. The 50 year old bachelor is not good husband material (unless he’s wealthy and wants children, neither of which he is). She could be wasting her time. Unless she doesn’t plan to have a family in the nearest future.
And again – women are not evil. Women don’t kill at war, don’t fill the prisons and there are hardly any female rapists and serial killers.
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Addendum to Roissy Maxim #112: Never underestimate what their sisters will do to undermine a relationship they do not approve of.
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Charlie and Gig are both right. If the asian woman is 28 yrs old, she should be getting married and having children RIGHT NOW. It was a comment thread from a previous post on this very website that tipped me to how most women’s fertility starts dropping fast after age 30. This man is not alpha, he is a parasite.
There is a phenomenon of women “sabotaging” perfectly good relationships (like Nicole’s ex. of the “aging hoe” above), but RiDC’s post was not a good illustration of it. Sloppy writing indicates sloppy thinking. We know you can do better.
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Ari,
What you’re describing is really common. This is why relationships with American women are so bad. Even if your girl is normal (a rare thing), her friends will push her to be a bitch, thus being bitchy becomes the norm in relationships.
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Nicole
long distance “relationships” are for betas and chumps
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Jill I have a different perspective ..hope you dont mind me commenting to you.
Jill said “Pretty much every childless 40 year old woman has huge regrets about missing out on family.”
Most women have huge regrets about many things… totally cool healthy happy life is ..”not good enough” ..compared to a wonderful Hollywood inspired perfect fantasy life..
have kids under the wrong circumstances ..which seems to happen in The US about 70% of the time imo ..and its a bigger mess brought on by selfish slavery to a mirage..
Jill also said
“I wouldn’t want a friend of mine to be left barren, with the consolation prize of a boyfriend in his mid to late sixties.”
Why? How do you arrive at the measurement of a friends happiness? ..and what business is it of yours…and more importantly what happens when you’re wrong ..and screw up ..a friend’s life…
Real life measured by the expected results of a plan based on a fantasy ..get justified to easily as..”I want whats best for her”
..most people who have creative control and own their own lives ..dont need to involve themselves in anothers ..unless asked.
Just my thoughts..
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If a dude friend of mine wanted kids in the near future and was wasting his time in an exclusive LTR with somebody who didn’t, I’d definitely give counsel that he move on. Your girl did her asian friend a solid.
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This guy is alpha: inmate hooking up with female prison guards left and right…
“Documents detailing the state investigation into Murphy’s liaisons show he persuaded at least five Montana female prison employees to break the rules over several years. He even convinced his therapist to have sex with him, and was able to arrange one-on-one meetings with her even though prison officials knew of his past history with female workers.”
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,589222,00.html?test=latestnews
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@ Roissy
I would like to have your opinion, and those of the others bloggers, of this little article
“Dr Satoshi Kanazawa, an evolutionary psychologist from the London School of Economics and Political Science, said the smarter a man is, the less likely he is to cheat on his partner.
His theory is based on the assertion that through evolutionary history, men have always been “mildly polygamous”.
That has changed today, however, and Dr Kanazawa explained that entering a sexually exclusive relationship is an ‘evolutionarily novel’ development for them.
According to his theory, intelligent people are more likely to adopt what in evolutionary terms are new practices – to become “more evolved”.”
http://www.news.com.au/entertainment/body-soul/dr-satoshi-kanazawa-said-men-with-lower-iqs-cheat-on-their-partners/story-e6frfou0-1225835778798
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As socially savvy and intuitive as women are in the early game, it always amuses me that almost all have a tough time seeing a relationship like this for what it is.
Love is blind? Horse shit. You just can’t convince yourself otherwise.
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Women seem to have something lodged in their brain that makes them want to be complete cockblocks. Disgusting, it is.
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The Truth, love makes chumps of us all. The trick, I think, is to understand that it is a kind of an ego suicide mission, and brace for impact.
I’m just wondering if there’s something less grim I can tell the next guy I encounter in the same situation.
Lover of women says, “..most people who have creative control and own their own lives”
That’s not most people. Most people are extremely socially dependent, and though I don’t think a person is evil for trying to save their friend from hitting the wall alone, I do think it is valid for a guy to regulate his woman’s social circle to a degree.
Some would call this abuse or setting a woman up for abuse, but most guys are socially dependent enough that this wouldn’t reach a pathological level. Couples should have a social circle that enhances and to some degree validates their relationship rather than sabotaging it.
From the woman’s side, I’ve learned the hard way a couple of times that a person’s social circle is *crucial*. Very few people are independent enough to date someone who doesn’t come with social rewards.
So a guy should try to direct his woman away from disapproving friends.
It does sound manipulative when you spell it out but well…
Love makes chumps of us all. Sometimes you have to be willing to get dirty to keep your woman.
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American women in particular hate it when one of their own age dates an older man, as they perceive it as lowering their own market value. In their minds, they’re now one step away from booze breathed, leering Fagans drooling on their pearly white breasts. As Roissy says, it upsets the established pussy order. I am like this man myself and see it all the time. It also causes these same women to try and hit on me. I laugh and care not. I say good on the old guy. And he may well want kids and just needs to be talked into it. You never know. Most guys like him have seen and done a great deal, more than any man of 30 or 35 and women with brains are often drawn to it. Kids aren’t always that big of a deal to them. In Europe, no one cares. In Eastern Europe its even encouraged.
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Skadi
So it’s now ok to say that women are evil (or inferior), while it’s not ok to say that Jews are evil or blacks are less intelligent?
The older guy did so well with the girl because she’s Asian. If she were a good looking white girl, it could be different. But the important part is that – you hate (or are intimidated by) women so much that you make irrational, biased assumptions about them. The girlfriend didn’t meddle with her friend’s life because she’s “evil”, but because she cares about her friend. The 50 year old bachelor is not good husband material (unless he’s wealthy and wants children, neither of which he is). She could be wasting her time. Unless she doesn’t plan to have a family in the nearest future.
And again – women are not evil. Women don’t kill at war, don’t fill the prisons and there are hardly any female rapists and serial killers.
How naive. They’re more evil in so many small ways. They can lie without remorse and kill with a smile and show no concern for the impact of their actions on others. They can slip you a child that’s not yours and deceive you into paying for it and become indignant when you call it fraud and deceit. They have used the political system to turn men into second class citizens through lies and deceit. They get men to do their evil bidding through manipulation of the pussy drug. Women are evil in ways men can only dream of because they use love as a weapon. Men are too straightforward for that.
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Roissy,
My girl rarely, if ever, answers the phone while I’m with her. Furthermore, she would not answer to speak on something so arbitrary while spending time with me.
I have never asked her not to answer the phone and/or text while in my presence. I would not mind if she did. However, I can assure you she’d rather not spend her time doing such things when we are together.
Good blog, makes sense and I wholeheartedly agree there are haters out there from every direction attempting to soil what is good in one’s life.
This can be explained to one’s partner and should not be done directly, yet if worded correctly, even that could be executed.
Sincerely,
T
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Personally, I don’t have a problem with your ladyfriend meddling and trying to hook her friend up with this “other guy.”
Wait a minute . . . did she say “good dancer?” Damn, then that wasn’t me she was trying to hook up with her hot Asian friend. In that case, fuck these meddling bitches!
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Its another reason why foreign women make better wives. Even when they do build up their social network, its usually not with other Americans.
As far as the Asian girl, however, I would agree she should lose the 50 year old if she wants children and he doesn’t. Its just common sense. In addition, I know of a girl when I was in my early 30s who was with a 50 something and she would whine about how she will miss having children. I was not interested in old man left overs, so I was not going to help her out. It reminds me of right of first night.
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Jill for the win.
Roissy I can certainly understand your alpha player inclination to side with the fifty something’s relationship with his late twenties gf as promising for the aging bachelor, but you did say she wants children straight up, and marriage as well, while he wants neither.
At eight years together she’s spent her entire twenties with him. He was perhaps in his early or mid 40s when they started up together. Although it’s a hell of a gap, that could make some sense as a transitional, and not necessarily very short serious relationship for certain sorts of girls. More serious and intellectual or at least very intelligent ones generally. But their relationship is as Jill says now crowding out her ability to find a mate who does want children while she’s still in her relative prime.
You’re right that women do often sabotage their girlfriend’s relationships for selfish or ill conceived, insubstantial reasons, but this seems the opposite of that. Rather this is the advice her mother and her mother’s female friends might give — and probably have. In fact their’s is advice and maneuvering that girls their age (or younger because everything was age sifted down then for girls, as is more natural) would have give 100 years ago or 150 to someone still withing prime marrying age, if only just.
Their talking about him staying at home too much and not wooping it up enough is partly true from their 20 something perspective, but it’s also code for his being too old for her (and ok probably not liking this group of girlfriends of hers too much, at this stage). They may not have come right out and said that because you’re considerably older than them including your current girlfriend too (but do like the bar and twenties dating scene), though certainly not his age.
What likely happened is she never expected to stay so long with a man who didn’t want children, but he’s alpha enough and clicks with her well enough, and she’s such a strong pair bonding type girl (with probably very few sexual partners in her life), that she’s emotionally stuck. And happy. For now. But it’s simply not prudent given what she wants in life. For women who know they want children at her age especially, the regret will only grow deeper the longer she stays, and her marriage market value will only decline from here.
She could probably get a higher beta. She’s be a great catch for one still. One in his late thirties or possibly early 40s should work for her, provided he wants children with her.
You end their phone conversation by shouting homewrecker load enough for the Asian girlfriend on the other end of the phone getting this gf lobbying advice to hear. That’s an amusing twist on that classic girl to girl charge, but a moment’s though reveals the very reasons it isn’t really accurate. They surely are trying to wreck this girl’s relationship. But not her home. Or not the sort of home she has always aspired to, one without children. They’re not primarily urging her to live it up, but rather to find a father for her future wanted children (with some living it up on the way there).
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Not all mothers are in their right minds, and mothers do interfere with actual couples all the time, for a number of reasons.
I’ve seen it inside my family and out, between mothers and son-in-laws as well as mothers and daughter-in-laws.
Many women will just as readily wreck their children’s marriages as their friends’. Social interference is a female characteristic, because it is empowering in regards to the pecking order.
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So if she wants a husband and babies then why the fuck is she still dating in her late 20s? Let me guess; she wants to finish her Masters first!
Her girlfriend isn’t doing her a solid. That might even be concievably true if she was attempting to sabotage the relationship for some altruistic purpose and having a real heart to heart with her friend would be the way to do that. If it failed, that would be the end of it. What she was trying to do was get her girlfriend out of an LTR and back on the cock carousel.
What’s more; why take the 50yo boyfriend at face value about not wanting marriage or kids? Does he not have the perogative to change his mind, or wish to be won over by his girlfriend? Why take the Asian girl at face value about wanting a family? Perhaps she is just saying what her friends and family expect her to say?
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In short this is very traditional advice they are giving her, not the sort of thing that’s born of the newly unrestrained sluttery and animal hypergamy (as opposed to more socialized hypergamy) of our current feminist age.
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Jill makes the best point. If this woman wants children, it’s probably a waste of her time to date someone who doesn’t at this point in her life.
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I say good on the old guy too, but he can’t expect to hold onto a relationship this long, much less longer, with a girl in her twenties who does want children. I actually think it’s pretty immoral, and no I’m not entirely amoral.
He has to be content with shorter LTRs if he wants to day twenty somethings who unambiguously want children. That or shift to young and still hot looking to someone his age 30 somethings who don’t or can’t.
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[quote]
In short this is very traditional advice they are giving her, not the sort of thing that’s born of the newly unrestrained sluttery and animal hypergamy (as opposed to more socialized hypergamy) of our current feminist age.
[/quote]
Look at the description of the guy they are trying to hook her up with. Father material? They don’t give a fuck about finding a decent guy for her. They only care that she is not with her current boyfriend.
It’s not ‘traditional’ advice unless it’s implicit that they are interested in seeing her with any number of available men that want the same things that she does. So, have the screened this new beau already? Have they asked him about potential marriage and children with their Asian friend? Not bloody likely. What if he came out of the gate saying that marriage and children were very much a potential with her? Critical Game failure.
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@K(yle)
“So if she wants a husband and babies then why the fuck is she still dating in her late 20s? Let me guess; she wants to finish her Masters first!”
That is a good point. She is already starting to expire for LTR. Based upon her actions to this point, she will just start banging a younger guy.
If she were 25 or under, chaste and looking for marriage, then she can consider herself marriage material.
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Welmer, my question though, is how exactly a guy goes about neutralizing interlopers.
I can’t see how because I’m a woman, and there is no cure for a mama’s boy but her death. Women might be different though. I don’t know, so I can’t say.
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To be fair, I’ll say that I’ve only sampled the comments so there could be some parts of the discussion I’m missing, but from what I’ve seen a lot of the reasoning reflects the thought patterns of recently awakened former betas languishing in bitterness from years of pent up frustration. What she was doing wasn’t evil or even wrong. To me this is just the female equivalent of a bunch of guys pounding down some brewskis chanting “Danger! She smashed the homie!!!”
How many times have you seen one of your homies wrapped around the finger of a gold digging whore of Babylon and tried to warn him? I’m sure just about every single one of us has at one time or another dated a shady chick who our friends tried to warn us about, and in the end left us dusted and disgusted when we didn’t listen.
Truth is, when you’re cool and her friends like you, they will speak of you in glowing terms and even advocate for you when she’s complaining to them. When you’ve proven to be suspect, they’re going to hate on you, period. Nobody wants their clique infiltrated by some off-brand, bootleg, bottom feeding chump.
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He got a case of yellow fevah! He’s going to trade her in for a new model soon anyway, let her have the babies-raibes and go out to spawn some crotch fruit.
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I think the key to overcoming the bullshit, that is a women’s friends, is to attack the source of the information and then reinforce your positive qualities.
Lee Atwater style; drive down their negatives and keep your positives at the status quo.
I don’t think aloofness will play well here. The girl is bring this up because she doubts your emotional commitment so you have to play the vulnerable card here, because she is worried her friend is right.
So I did what I considered the correct thing to do. I acted semi pissed. Asked her if her friend had a boyfriend. Asked her when was the last time she had a fruitful relationship. Went on a rant about “if you want to take relationship advice from people who don’t have good relationships, then go for it, but I think we are doing alright.” “I’m happy.” “I thought dinner last week was great; in fact I think it was one of our best nights out.” “Did you have a good time?”
Then I’ll usually put up some fruitful tentative date in the next two weeks that she can look forward too, then after I soothe her nervousness, i’ll start checking out the hot blonde with the big tits over in the corner and maybe strike up a semi bland converation with a girl at the bar while i’m ordering my lady a drink. This will drum up the “he can leave me” feeling that all girls can’t resist and then i’ll take my girl home and fuck her real good.
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Dat_Truth_Hurts
This guy is alpha: inmate hooking up with female prison guards left and right…
“Documents detailing the state investigation into Murphy’s liaisons show he persuaded at least five Montana female prison employees to break the rules over several years. He even convinced his therapist to have sex with him, and was able to arrange one-on-one meetings with her even though prison officials knew of his past history with female workers.”
Here’s lover boy. Of course we still don’t know what the women looked like. But with occupation as Montana prison guard…………it could be really brutal.
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“What I mean is that a well-rounded guy, a guy who is up to date on current events, who imbibes a moderate amount of pop-culture, and has socialized a fair bit in the nightlife and watering holes commensurate to his station in life, can very often be percieved as some kind of boring shut-in by big city women galavanting about town. These women have all their little promotional parties, art showings, club promoter hook-ups, etc., that their lives are a whirlwind of activity. To the social climbing male scenesters, this isn’t a problem, since they are out there every night, too.”
Very true. You’d often be surprised at what sort of invites even boring 6-7’s can rack up over the years.
Usually through the hard work of some connected beta middleman.
Nevertheless, women generally passively accept/mull over invitations from randoms, which is a limiting force in their lives.
With a little work, a guy can massively enhance his status by proactively finding a few good scenes and making new friends with connected types.
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Again, Roissy’s conclusions are faulty because their based on inaccurate premises (bias, in this case, misogyny), on the assumption that women naturally have no solidarity among each other, but in free and natural circumstances they do, as they identify with each other. You love and support your girlfriends and younger sisters, wishing all the best for them.
ROTFLLMFAO.
You should read Robert Trivers (or his explicators Robert Wright and Steven Pinker) on the tangled web of selfishness and altruism that exist in all human relationships, even among families. Women are often very nasty and competitive with each other. I’ve seen my sister in tears after what one of her “friends” did to her.
(I’d also recommend Sophia Coppola’s Marie Antoinette for a picture perfect portrait of a very feminine society. Yes, it completely falls apart in the second half, but the first half is brilliant.)
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Honestly, I don’t know exactly how to do it. These days, the only way to avoid serious damage from them is to avoid marriage. If your gf leaves, it isn’t that big of a deal.
But maybe one could simply observe how she reacts around other women. If a woman always seems to need some validation from her peers, that’s probably a bad sign. It’s also probably not good if she’s suggestible.
These days women can do pretty much whatever they want, so guys simply have to accept that they have little control over the situation and stop caring one way or the other. Easier said than done, of course, but it is possible.
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anonymous wrote:
“Dear Girlfriend,
Thank you for bringing me to my senses when I dated that older man. You knew I could do better, twisted my arm, and armed me with useful dialogue to end it. Your instincts were on target, and soon after I met my future husband. I am eternally grateful.”
Or,
Dear Heartles Bitch!
You screwed me royal. You convinced me that the 50 yo wasn’t good enough for me. Because I listened to you, and found a guy who you approved of, my life is shit.
Guy One was a very rich man who died 5 years later from a heart attack, while skiing on the Riviera, behind his 120′ yacht. I could have been a very rich widow at 33.
But, NO! Instead, I meet guy 2, whom you thoroughly felt was a lot more fun. He got me pregnant because he bought a cheap condom with holes in it. Then, as soon as I was unfuckable, I found out why you REALLY thought he was more fun. You were screwing him like a phillips head into a green lumber patio.
Oh, just so you know, because guy 2 liked barebacking, I guess he forgot to tell you he has numerous STDs, one of which caused our bastard child to be mentally retarded.
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Thank you, Ari. Was that a calibrated response, or do you think a guy should always be icepick cruel (not brutal but coldly frank) in reference to the bitter friend?
Is there a time when a guy could make as if he pities the friend with a kind of softer delivery?
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I think nycbachelor hit it on the head – it’s primate alpha-pack behavior, female style, in which females raise themselves in status by pulling their happier, paired-off sisters down. really, who’s to say what the asian GF really wants except the person herself? All the rest is hamster-spinning rationalization of behaviors straight from the baboon pack: split off an alpha male from his mate so I might have a chance. Remember women can be *way* more vicious to each other emotionally than men are used to. Starts in junior high and never lets up.
Also, this:
is paraphrased from a Han Solo quote in one of the “Star Wars” movies, maybe “The Empire Strikes Back.” A little nerdier than usual, my friend.
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The essence of alpha.
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Nicole
A sensible man will not fall in love and get in a relationship with a woman who lives far away.
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What many of you are saying is that she’s a woman, so she has no agency and doesn’t know what’s best for her, so you need to meddle in her own life decisions.
Better she marry a boring, loser man who will man up and donate sperm before the inevitable divorce and ass-raping.
For Loser Man, though, no worries. He’s a man, so he needs to take responsibility for his choices.
No wonder this country is so fucked up.
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The Truth, a sensible man doesn’t fall in love.
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Targa, women aren’t men, and certain things about our worldview prevent us from making sound selections without male assistance.
No, it’s not a politically correct thing to say, but until men start birthing children, this is what we have. With few androgynous, highly cerebral, and screwed up situational exceptions, it’s our job to incubate babies and support our providers and protectors.
What should be according to some unrealistic ideology that sounds nice on paper, isn’t what needs to happen in the real world.
In the real world, a man is a predator and a competitor. He needs to take holding his position seriously, or he’ll lose it.
So those who are just in it for the sex aren’t going to see any of this as relevant anyway. The guys who care about this issue are the ones who were lucky enough to find someone they want to keep around.
…and a guy had better care about who his woman is hanging out with, and be willing to protect his woman from people who want to see her miserable like they are.
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“You’ll notice that this woman’s self-primary concern (marriage, children, commitment) are all presumed to be the same as the Asian girl’s. ”
The hilarious irony being that she, herself, is with Roissy.
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Doug’s post is intelligent and corresponds with reality.
Again, Roissy’s conclusions are faulty because their based on inaccurate premises (bias, in this case, misogyny), on the assumption that women naturally have no solidarity among each other, but in free and natural circumstances they do, as they identify with each other. You love and support your girlfriends and younger sisters, wishing all the best for them. You wanna see them happy, as you don’t wanna be around depressed people. The younger girls are really inexperienced and vulnerable and they need to be at least informed about what could happen later in life. Younger women can be passive but above all deeply romantic and in love… which makes it extremely hard to leave a man even if he’s not good for you and is not husband/steady partner material. There are experiences when there should have been someone who would have literally pulled you away from something that wasn’t good for you. Then again.. if she really loves him deeply, she may want to stay with him. Love is just really complicated.. but by the age of 28 she should start realizing what her plans in life should be. Especially the kids issue… 8 years together is plenty of time to established between you and your man whether you both can make that sacrifice and have kids together. And, btw, no, they don’t have a “home”, it sounds more like a luxurious passtime on the guy’s behalf.
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nycbachelor–
Yeah but she hasn’t remained with Roissy for 8 years all through her 20s and after it’s long been clear to her that he’ll never want children “even with her”. (As well Roissy would be unlikely to want to keep a relationship going for that long at his considerably younger age than the older guy here.)
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The most broadly effective strategy for a guy in this older guy’s position who doesn’t want kids ever but does want a longer lasting LTR is to not want kids “right now” and then to be unsure about whether or when he wants them, but not now.
I however would feel it’s immoral to keep announcing that position for as long as he has with the same girl, when she absolutely does want children. Yeah she should figure it out but still.
Why? She’s reaching her sell by date, and he’s supposed to deeply care for her or love her. I’m sure she thinks he does, and that he’s long since told her that. Eight years is a long time.
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Note to self: smile smugly with the knowledge that with few female friends, should a relationship come along, at least there will only be two people to hold responsible if it’s screwed up irreparably somehow down the line.
Barring a situation where a friend has found themselves in a relationship with an abusive woman or man and thus is in danger; or has asked me specifically what my opinion/thoughts about a set issue in the relationship (I don’t typically get into discussions of a general sort regarding someone else’s relationship); I would rather use a rusty spoon to remove my eyeballs than get into the details about a relationship that, since I’m not one of the two people in it, has nothing to do with me.
That is all.
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http://jezebel.com/5492742/sorry-cosmo-geeks-can-be-jerks-too
Creaky piece of male wisdom: Women don’t want ‘angelic, flawless’ dudes. They don’t want nice guys.
Men who apply this advice clean up.
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Nicole, yes, in a perfect traditionalist system, men are providers and protectors but in the 2010 real world many, many men (dare say the majority) are not providers, or are 50% providers at best. The men on this very blog often make a point of how not to pay on dates and they expect the woman to pay while they still get the sex. They want a young, hot woman but don’t wanna be the gentleman and the provider.
Men have to redefine their roles – some men can stay providers if they manage to have high paying jobs, but the majority of men are betas anyway. There are many other roles that men can fill besides being provider and protector (which is good and noble of course but not always realistic these days) – they can be a romantic lover, great sex partner, a supportive LTR partner and a good father, or just good company given the great sense of humor that many men have. People can have better lives by pooling resources.
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“PA
How different is a guy who strings along a girl in her waning years of fertility from a girl who cuckolds her man?
Very good point, and something that is saddening to witness as a third-party observer who can see whats going on.
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Thursday, that’s just fiction.
All humans are both egotistical and altruistic, regardless of the sex (even mothers and fathers). Not just women, but men in particular are highly competitive among each other. In politics, war, on the corporate ladder, in fight for women.. in sports. Even the ego strife in rock’n’roll bands among the guitarist and lead vocalist.. 🙂
The point was that the post was exaggerating the women’s selfishness towards other women. It’s a popular misogynist myth. Solidarity between women does exist. Do you really think the Asian girl’s girlfriend is trying to pull her away from the 50 year old man so that she “could have a chance with him”? Please. 🙂
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nicole said –
<>
nicole ..
I never said evil..but
..To me thats explaining …justifying the spreading of a mental emotional virus… my purpose was to share the idea that confused people ..give confused advice..
..Today, even with a team of nannies and a big cushion of cash its a low probability bet …that having children will bring happiness to someone who’s not happy ..even lower probability that you could raise kids successfully (meaning children with creative control of their own lives eventually) in the US culture today … unless the parents were in control of their own their lives and dedicated 24 -7 to it.. most are not up for that type of commitment..
imo chasing happiness according to a mental plan is why the US has become a life draining fake ..having kids for props in Christmas cards ..to prove to her socially dependant so called friends “dont we look good..we are HAPPY” …would not really enhance a woman’s life 5 years out when the fun fades and the work kicks in..unless she was emotionally menatlly mature..and in that case she would have told her friend “..fuck off ..I love my man..” and then the guy would probably see she was actually ready to have kids..and eventually they could ..or not
So
If the goal would be to have kids in a natural organic healthy committed loving mature relationship that would require the parents to be exceptional….and realise having kids is not another phase in life’s never ending pursuit of fulfillment… not a selfish goal to be strived for..no matter how much honey we put on the motives…the feeling of loneliness and unfulfilled desires does not end with having children
do you really believe that most woman in their 20’s in the US are emotionally and mentally ready for the commitment of kids?
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Thursday, we all have, from both men and women. Women are slightly different than men, but they are not evil. They are different by the virtue of their biological evolutionary traits, while evil is a moral category (a partly cultural construct). Individuals are a certain way. Men are not evil either, but they are certainly more aggressive, cold blooded (surgeons :), more delinquent unfortunately (one of the consequences of how they naturally are). Yes, men are generally more straightforward and direct, but some men are really sly, scheming and manipulative (not to mention jealous of their competition or more successful and more handsome males who they often put down).
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Skadi: it may be interesting to consider roissy as a misanthropist, rather than a misogynist.
If you want to edit what he says (and those who disagree can correct me), it’s ‘Women are evil [too].’
Each gender is more prone to believe the sins of the other gender(s) as more horrific, due to a lesser ability to relate to the motivations and thought processes behind them.
[editor: you might also say i’m bringing balance to the force. the world is well aware of the evil of men. it’s time the world got a good (second) look at the evil of women.]
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I am amazed she let you listen in on this.
[editor: she’s… open… to my judgement.]
I have witnessed women do this, but only if there was no one around that could “judge” them.
I am also not so sure whether she was really trying to set her up with someone new, or simply pointing out a sexual opportunity (disguised as romance).
Have you ever seen a “girl’s night out” where a woman held another back from getting physical with a guy?
If the women are close, they typically have a lot of understanding for each other’s sexual needs (as well as the need for protecting their reputation).
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Skadi says, “Nicole, yes, in a perfect traditionalist system, men are providers and protectors but in the 2010 real world many, many men (dare say the majority) are not providers, or are 50% providers at best.”
They aren’t giving birth or breastfeeding either.
Women have their biological role, and men have theirs. Ideological concerns are irrelevant by comparison. A system that does not allow humans to perform their basic biological roles is even more oppressive than one that forces people into narrowly defined albeit biological roles.
Perhaps fewer men are interested in being providers because fewer women are interested in being real mothers and/or nurturing companions. Women have always worked. What has changed is that being a good drone has been placed at a higher priority than being a good mother.
“The men on this very blog often make a point of how not to pay on dates and they expect the woman to pay while they still get the sex. They want a young, hot woman but don’t wanna be the gentleman and the provider. ”
Not all the men commenting on this blog are that short sighted, and the blogger himself understands that his approach is destructive.
…but no more destructive actually, than those individual women deserve. If those women are acting against their nature, they can’t very well blame men for behaving like aliens who’ve never heard of courtship.
“Men have to redefine their roles – ”
No they don’t. They don’t have to do anything.
…and while your head is in feminist lalaland, a great many of them are deciding to either give up their primary role and just be players dumping sperm into an evolutionary black hole, or just not to do it at all.
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Equating a woman cuckholding a man to a man “stringing along” a woman past her fertility only makes sense if you start with the assumption that adult women should be thought of as children – perpetual minors – never able to make as make a decision for which they can be held responsible.
A woman, who is conscious, can detect whether or not a guy is in fact marrying her and giving her babies regardless of how skillfully he strings anything along.
A cuckholded man has nothing but lies to guide him. Her concrete actions tell him nothing about true paternity.
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Lover of women asks, “do you really believe that most woman in their 20’s in the US are emotionally and mentally ready for the commitment of kids?”
It’s not the age’s fault that they’re not ready. In previous generations, women were ready by their late teens, and by the time they reached the average age (around 20-22) they were more than ready.
A responsible parent begins training their children for parenthood in childhood, since that is part of the cycle of life. A person should be responsible enough by the time they’re able to make children, to refrain from doing so until they are ready.
So if a kid doesn’t get it by 16, their parents have neglected their education.
That women in their 20’s wouldn’t be ready is a horribly shameful thing.
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I don’t know….if your female companion had talked you up enough to her friends, then they wouldn’t be trying to get her with someone else. Maybe your companion has expressed doubts (likely, no offense) and her friend truly does have her friend’s best interest in mind. She should still mind her own damn business, but your companion didn’t exactly dismiss her friend’s suggestions, or so it sounds.
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To be fair, I hate it when my bros are dating nasty harpies, and try to strew nicer ones in their path.
This is real stuff though. Fortunately, the really hot ones often don’t have any female friends.
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Nicole,
You are making some excellent points. Women of previous generations were wives and mothers at a young age and seemed to do a pretty good job with it. I’ve only been reading this blog for about two weeks, but I do get the impression some of the worst behavior described by men here is only in response to the way many young women act today. I still know of many young men who are looking for a nice girl to marry and have a family with.
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It’s already too late for the Asian girl. She is damaged goods in the eyes of her Asian peers, and even if she is going to break up with Mr Alpha right now and start looking for someone else, it’s just not enough time – anyone she finds now will be able to smell her desperation.
Sometimes the boat just sails by.
Hindsight is always 20-20, and a cruel teacher to boot, but if she wanted kids she should have thought about it back when she was 24 and prick-teasing different guys at the bar every week.
On a side note, this is not the first time I have seen a white girl trying to ‘save’ their uninformed Eastern sisters. Fuck, honey, you think that Asian bird doesn’t know what she is doing? If nothing else she has a better chance of getting her kids than you do.
(that applies to all you White-Knighters who have already replied in this thread).
AA
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Women are responsible for their own unhappiness. They are petty, vindictive, harpy-like creatures who are their own worst enemies. Their social order is little evolved from a schoolyard.
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Bhetti, no, he is not a misanthropist. At least, I haven’t noticed in the couple of posts I’ve read. But a misogynist he certainly is.
[editor: i direct your attention to the “beta of the year” and “dating market value test for men” pages at the very top of this blog. (too easy)]
And anti-family too (which eventually means against your own race and survival instinct). Btw, it’s interesting that so many misogynists are unmanly or don’t comply with the patriarchial standard of how the male should be – overanalyzing relationships, abandoning courtship and not wanting to pay on dates. That’s just so not patriarchial and non-alpha.
On the “evilness” of males… unfortunately, males tend to be more cruel, aggressive, domineering, with a higher sex drive (at least while younger).. it is how Nature created them. It is not an accident that men kill or are in jails much more than women are. Men are even more likely to be violent to themselves as they have the guts to commit suicide to a much larger extent than women. This is all natural, society should only learn what to do with it, how to channel the male energy productively. The evilness begins when there is no moral accountability, when they don’t have the number one Roman male virtue – self containment (self-control).
Nicole, no, they don’t bear children or breastfeed, but those only take about a year or two. And btw it’s a very beautiful sight when a guy holds a small child. It is incredibly adorable.
It’s funny to hear that kind of a talk from an American, knowing that American women have to go back to work really soon compared to Europeans.
There are biological traits, and there are social / cultural roles, obligations, expectations, dreams, etc. Biological traits are intact (that’s why there is no need to fear gays, human sexuality cannot arbitrarily change), while gender is a social construct and usually a subject to economic needs/opportunities.
If the male is strong enough to be the sole provider in the family, than that’s commendable. But it’s not always realistic. So males in the Western society have to assume varying roles like women have done so far (and for so long now). A woman is expected to be “the woman” (a sexy girlfriend and then mother) AND “the man” (full time worker). She doesn’t really always have a choice of being a housewife. I didn’t have a choice not to work outside of home. And most young women don’t.
The men are not interested in being the provider because they can get away with it and still have a satisfactory life. They simply don’t have to be anymore. Being a provider and protector is hard work, commitment, self-lessness and discipline – all the classical male virtues that many modern men don’t care about. Just read how they mock the “white knights” on this blog. They are mocking the highest male virtue!
Being a good mother is not highly valued anymore because mothers aren’t “sexy”. And you know that sex is pretty much the biggest value in our society, besides money. I meant, in your own, American, society.
I didn’t see him recognizing that his free loader approach of not paying for the date but ‘gaming’ the woman into sex is destructive. Quite the contrary, he’s encouraging that behavior all over this blog. Never mind that young men or teenage boys read this, huh? I know it’s sometimes painful and confusing for many guys these days. Because there is no stable, orderly, predictable structure in the society and no clearly defined gender roles. But it’s no excuse for being a manipulative “gamer”, and a hater of the women kind.
And men have to redefine their roles, expand them, more precisely. To what I already mentioned, since they don’t fulfill the traditional role anymore. They should focus more on the role of being a high quality sex partner and a good father.
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Skadi, sorry I had to translate what you said from Feminese.
Men have already expanded their roles officially, and were already straddling them unofficially since the first guy’s mom, sister, or mate died in childbirth.
Humans have always been versatile. What I’m saying is that there’s a way people sort themselves and their roles out when things are going well, and a way they do when there’s a crisis.
Feminist ideology has created a kind of artificial crisis situation in which, rather than taking good advantage of social and economic prosperity, women are being encouraged to behave as if men are inherently unreliable, violent, and morally deficient.
What’s also sick is that men are being raised to believe this about themselves. It’s no wonder that even with all the supposed progress, men are still acting out violently more often than women (though the gap is starting to close).
If you constantly berate a kid all their lives about every bite of food they put near their mouths, they’re going to grow up with an eating disorder. Why do you figure it would be any different if you always told boys and men the negative side of their masculinity, with no priority given to the positive aspects?
You write as if I’m saying that a man can’t hold a child, just because he can’t give birth to one.
…and if you have more than one child, breastfeeding lasts more than two years.
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..while on the dating test for women you included the point about how she should preferably pick up the check herself. Which is quite normal in my book. But not fair from the “traditionalist” viewpoint which states that the male trades in his material resources for the woman’s youth and beauty. The woman, esp., young and hot, picking up her check is a very feminist thing to do. If it wasn’t for feminism, the woman wouldn’t even think of paying her share on a date (as it still often happens in Eastern Europe). So as the saying goes, don’t spit in the well which you are drinking from.
You have acknowledged in some posts that the earning power is what makes a man an alpha which is true. But it’s mostly his willingness to share his resources.
This whole game thingy (even though haven’t read the book) seems very unmanly, it’s basically about manipulating women to get the sexual benefits without paying the real manly dues. Not very manly. A “real man” wouldn’t care if he has paid for the “lady’s” drink or even the meal.
[editor: if you want to insist on thinking of game as manipulation, then you will also have to label any status-boosting activity men engage in as manipulation, because everything men do is, ultimately, in pursuit of the pussy. so, are you prepared to call a war general a “manipulator”. i await your adorable response.]
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Skadi: My response will be necessarily brief and abrupt. I have things I should attend to.
That you don’t recognise how he treats men and women with equal contempt — hard to achieve in a blog that’s meant to be about the trials and tribulations of dating women* — says all there needs to be said about your misandrist thinking; the only conclusion I can make is that you do not recognise instances of contempt against primarily male behaviour.
(*If a misanthropist writes about only women, he appears misognystic. If a misanthropist is interested in the truth and the the atmosphere is misandrist, what will he write about? Think. )
Now please, ‘more matter with less art’. Regarding your future responses, find a coherent point that you want to make and remove the emotionality. You’re jumping too fast and spilling it all out in one rant without careful language, which makes it look like you’re seemingly contradicting yourself and detracts from any logical points you are making.
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Roissy,
You got to watch the Simon interview on Jay Leno..Amazing BL..does not lean in to his gf, does not stand up…is CNF all the time..has a shit eating grin…and then instructs her to leave @ 3:14 when she cozies up to him, very subtle but you can make out he’s in charge..Shes definitely attractive, atleast an 8
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/09/simon-cowell-kisses-his-f_n_491423.html
Another one…
Does Simon Cowell read game?
[editor: if he doesn’t then he’s a natural. game + fame = unstoppable force of nature.]
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Nicole, I hope you understand that I’m not addressing my criticism towards the Western males who are actively participating in family life and being supportive. They are highly appreciated and will always be loved and respected.
Why do you Americans always say it’s the feminism that created this transitional gender role imbalance? It was the economy, the two income household, the necessity for the women to engage in the labor market in order to secure the high living standard.
Well, it’s a reality that some men are unreliable and that many men like to cheat. It’s a fucking reality, you don’t need a propaganda for that. And how are they taught that they are violent, by the movies? They make the movies themselves… they dig violence. The American culture is very masculinist, it is much more macho than compared to Europe.
There are studies on male violence, but nothing can change the biological fact that males are naturally inclined to be more aggressive. It is how Nature made them, that’s why more boys are born than girls, because boys are more exposed to the risk due to their more belligerent (adventurous 🙂 natures. This little gap is there for the males to serve their biological role. You can’t make the males less aggressive (unless you implant some sort of a chip in a boy’s embryo). But, yes, socially, they can be pacified and slightly tamed. The key is to channel the male aggression and sexual drive into a constructive, and not destructive outlets. Sports, maybe art… or change their status icons. It can also be changed by placing a higher social value on more peaceful male roles, such as being a father.
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Bhetti, internet is a free space and I can choose which ever style I prefer to convey my musings. This is not an academic discussion, after all 🙂 And how could I ever be a misandrist in a world that has this:
editor, haven’t read “game”, don’t really know what it is. It sounds like some sort of an attempt to charm a woman with words and some mystical “swagger”, no matter if you have the money or real manly qualities (like the ability and willingness to be the provider/protector). There is this silly saying that women love with ears, haha. But many women are smarter than that. In such cases, me and my girlfriends just say “he’s just pouring you syrup”. It’s when a man is “sweet talking” to try to get you in bed… 🙂 Which is nice and perfectly acceptable if he is hot. 🙂
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Before I got remarried (I was about 45), I had a hot thing with an asian woman who was 24 and still living at home. Great sex. I can still remember the way people would look at us when I was around middle aged couples. I did not think about it much but there where times when we would go to a nice restaurant the men would have this envious look on their faces and would be looking at her not me. They did not look at their wives in the face either. The women would get this smouldering hateful look in their eyes and would be looking at me. I loved it.
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Skadi, again, women have *always* worked. What has changed is what they think about it. That change in thought rests on feminists, who for some reason, don’t like the idea of a woman enjoying being a woman.
They talk a lot of trash about choice, but if a woman chooses to be a competent mother, then according to them, there must be something wrong with her.
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Speaking of the Roissy worldview:
Jessica Simpson will have kids with BFF Ken Pavis (look at him) if she is not a mom by 40. Video:
http://www.comcast.net/video/jessica-simpson-i-m-having-a-baby/1441608080/Comcast/1441400948/
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Nicole, but why do you listen to them? Why are they such a big deal for you? It’s not like they forbid you to become a mother or to find an affluent (hard working) man who lets you stay at home with children? It’s not like they put a pistol to your head and insist that you have no choice. In a free society, there is a multitude of varying opinions. The impression I get is that “feminism” is constantly being bashed, I haven’t heard any feminists telling women they must not stay at home or not be lady like. Feminists have a right to have an opinion too. Gender equalists, like myself, have that right, you as a traditionalist woman have that right. You would think that these misogynists have that right too, but the problem in their case is that they are breeding hatred.
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Skadi
It is bad form to begin a commentary on a subject by saying, “First of all, I know nothing about this.” If you expect to be taken seriously, that is.
Your little notion about the purpose of a slightly larger number of males being born is deeply flawed, if not childish. Because most males never get paired off unless there is a regime of enforced monogamy.
Enforced monogamy has been a rarity in human history taken as a whole and non-existent in the thousands of other creatures that also have a roughly 50/50 birth ratio.
Genetic evidence exist that the majority of human males thru the eons never got lucky at all whereas about 80% of females did.
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A rational woman would think “my friend is attractive, my friend is therefore competitive, and that is one less woman I need to beat in my competition for a great guy”.
However, the typical woman thinks “yes my friend is attractive, but of course she is! I wouldn’t associate with her if she were not attractive!”.
Since Roissy notes women associate with women of similar hotness, its therefore disconcerting if one of the women is dating an inferior man since it suggests all of the women in the group are not as hot as they thought, or will end up dating inferior men themselves.
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Skadi is a PWB (privileged white bitch).
I know your kind very, very well, Skadi. Biggest whores on the planet. Spread your legs for any young thug with a shaved head types, and then go running to the nearest OWG (old white guy) to shed tears and cry about how you weren’t treated like the perfect Aryan angel.
Save it, woman. The jig is up. I did my duty, had my Nordic babies, and then got fucked in the ass and called a Nazi by the lying, cheating bitch in court. The Jewish judge called bullshit, and did me a big favor in so doing. I don’t forget that kind of thing.
Go commiserate with your sister Elin Nordegren. Blond pussy is for sale the same as any other, as you so blatantly put it:
And here you long for the “white knight”:
So typical… You’ve probably slept with at least a dozen men, and still want a white knight. You want “classical virtue?” Then offer your virginity — if you still have it… LOL
Now, Skadi, it’s your turn to declare what you have to offer. If you haven’t done the old in and out with too many skinheads, you might still be salvageable.
So what do you, as a Nordic lady, have to offer a man that, say, Bhetti – an educated, conservative and reasonable Arab girl – does not?
Eh?
I’m not holding my breath. And no, your genes are not adequate.
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Egh, an Asian woman. Who cares?
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Rum, it’s perfectly sufficient to make a comment about what the post said without reading the book. Maybe I’ll read it later. Don’t comment on the style, answer about the substance. Yes, there are more males born, and it seems that it’s because males are more likely to get killed and are more prone to risk taking. It’s being compensated by them being born in bigger numbers, for the survival of humans. Yea, it’s true that monogamy has been enforced through out history. And there are some species that are monogamous. Humans apparently have to be monogamous at least 4 years for the offspring to grow up (that’s why they say that romantic love ends around that time).
Welmar, are you feeling better now after all that ad hominem bs? I don’t understand how you can call a person you don’t even know a “bitch” and a “whore”. It doesn’t even hurt me, it just demonstrates your level of culture. No, I don’t date or sleep with thugs. 🙂 And I don’t run to older guys. Stop fantasizing. 🙂 And maybe instead of insulting someone, you could go out and do something about the American court system to make it more male/father friendly.
Elin Nordgren made a big mistake. Humans make mistakes.
I don’t care what you assume about my genes. The men are already complementing them.
And, please, go with a conservative Arab girl, why not. I don’t have to offer anyone anything, I don’t owe anything to anybody. But there’s plenty to offer to a handsome, supportive beta type (much more than discussing social anthropology).
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I give Skadi credit for coming on here and giving her opinion and she has made some good points. She has also been polite to everyone. The comment from Welmer was too mean.
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Skadi, I’m not a traditionalist. I’m an independent. I like that I’m not being dunked in a river to test whether or not I’m a witch, but I also understand that women only have so many optimally fertile years to have kids. Therefore neither they nor their would-be husbands can afford to be flippant about get’n ‘er done.
If people aren’t sure what they should be doing, that’s not because of a transition. It’s because of a void in the popular consciousness. People were given a set of ideals that are impossible to live by and still get on with the business of breeding at replacement levels and raising kids with their feet on the ground.
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Brother Welmer was dead-freaking-on, sistaz!
You want a white knight? Earn him.
Ex post pussy facto – whoops, you can’t.
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That’s it, “you people” are responsible for causing all of my unhappiness at this moment.
“you people are all the same.”
“you people complain too much.”
oh and
“you people” can “figure out on your own who exactly it is I’m referring to.”
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Worry about a woman’s no-good cheatin’ female friends. Nothing inspires a woman f*cking around on her man like the example and “You go, girl!” encouragement of her trampy buddies. They’ll get her to do it but won’t take any repsonsbility, for damn sure.
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Thanks, Laura.
Nicole, yes, the fertile years are limited (but not short), but the woman today can only rely on herself. And, no, we can’t afford to be flippant (including males, if they want a family). We just have to face the reality and accept that the likelihood of having strong, healthy families is not high. We have to deal with reality and try to alleviate it for those who want to have children. The replacement level is only 2.1 kids, so there needs to be just a slight encouragement.
Gdi, different men deserve different treatment. You (and the misogynists on this blog) will never see the treatment that a white knight would get.
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“I don’t understand how you can call a person you don’t even know a “bitch” and a “whore”. It doesn’t even hurt me…”
The ONLY women not hurt at being called bitches are the bitches.
It’s kind of like the only guys not hurt at being called assholes are the assholes.
Mr. Welmer has you snagged, tagged, and bagged hag.
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“Women are evil in ways men can only dream of because they use love as a weapon. Men are too straightforward for that.”
Please tell me you grasp the irony of choosing this particular venue to make such a declaration.
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“…stop caring one way or the other.”
You think *indifference* is “the essence of alpha,” Dragnet? Roissy has gone badly wrong if that’s what he’s been telling you. The essence of alpha is power.
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And, this kind of stupid thinking brought up Britney Spears + K-fed (well, she she did that to herself… but it’s still the same lind of idiocy).
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I agree with PA(for once). It’s a waste of time for the 28 year old if she wants children. Plus the old man will dump her in a few years when a 20 year old comes knocking.
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And I give you the sad, self-pitying, smacked-the-wall-hard Agent Provocunteur Extraordinaire, self-proclaimed bitch Elizabeth Wurtzel:
http://www.elle.com/Life-Love/Sex-Relationships/Failure-to-Launch-When-Beauty-Fades
Truly, her world ends not with a bang, but a wimper.
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Skadi
Very, very few species of mammals are remotely monogamous but they all still have a roughly 50/50 birth ratio. That alone should give pause to the idea that this is driven by natures intent to pair off boys and girls one to one. The large majority of males never breed at all just about everywhere you look in nature.
What a child bearing human female needs for the first 4 years or so is a lot of support. A “husband” for that time is one answer. But there have been others (like her living in a harem). Or there being a welfare state.
Most of the fundamentals of gender relationships in a society flow from the way such support is arranged.
If women do not believe they need a provider nice-guy, their hind brain instincts pull into the carnal embrace of a different kind of guy. Until the socity wide system of support breaks down and then the cycle begins again.
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Skadi — If you hate us misogynists so much, why are you so here so much, posting constantly? Seems, well, paradoxical.
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I thought the article was great. It’s hard to face the mistakes you have made in life and the author did it very touchingly and honestly. I give her much credit.
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“http://www.elle.com/Life-Love/Sex-Relationships/Failure-to-Launch-When-Beauty-Fades
“Truly, her world ends not with a bang, but a wimper.””
Shit… I was expecting to read that the sleeping pills finally worked. Don’t get my hopes up like that.
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Wurtzel’s a self-absorbed, cock-hopping slut, got what she deserves – sagging parts, veil of tears, zero attention from alphas. It’s a lonely end when you’re a whore.
But: kudos to her for saying the truth … no, make that big-ass kudos, almost makes up for all the self-indulgent crap she’s published previously.
Girls: Read carefully, take notes, don’t be like her.
Guys: Isn’t life GREAT?!?!
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@ Skadi
You’ve made some interesting—although unoriginal—points, but I must take issue with this constant refrain:
Actually, men don’t really have to do anything at all. Let’s take Japan, for instance. Or even Russia. The young men in those countries haven’t “redefined their roles” at all—they’ve simply dropped off the scene. Underemployed, herbivore men, video gaming, vagabonding, getting by on as little possible—those men have “redefined their roles” in such a way as to contribute absolutely nothing to women or society at large. And it’s the young women in those countries who are paying the heaviest price, with flagging economies, shrinking populations, eroding personal safety, etc. What makes you think this isn’t an option for Western men?
One of the biggest misunderstandings women had/have is this idea that men would adapt in ways conducive to their aims. I cannot emphasize strongly enough just how untrue this is. Sure, many men are now finding that will not be able to be the sole providers of their future households. And sure, the solution for some will be to share that duty with their future womenfolk. However, the solution of many men will be to simply opt out altogether. Fuck women, fuck family, fuck marriage, etc. More men will take this route than women believe—whether it’s choosing Game to dictate the terms of engagement with women, expatriating to more male-friendly environs, or just dropping out altogether—and it won’t be men who suffer the most because of it.
And it won’t take many men to have a large impact. If 100 women are looking to marry—but only 80 or so men are looking to, that creates a dramatic and painful imbalance. You simply can’t sustain a society or civilization if a significant minority of its uteruses aren’t pumping out offspring. And men are having their say by what they are refusing to do.
I want to end by stressing something that I’m still not sure you understand: men don’t “have” to do anything. They don’t have to redefine anything at all.They can just opt out. In fact, I think it’s become highly likely that a decisive number will eventually. Look around the world—shit, look in the US, for gods sake. Every week there’s an opinion piece or news article about the declining numbers regarding male employment, entreprenuership, or increasing resistance to committed relationships, bromances, etc. It’s already happening, honey.
Wake up, darling.
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Well, you did suggest you were a feminist. What’s the difference?
Use of present tense duly noted.
Your handle dates you. You’re actually probably a bit long in the tooth for me, so I’d suggest you dispense with the pretense before you embarrass yourself.
How many men are “complementing” your genes? That’s an interesting, but apt, euphemism for gametic fusion (i.e. fertilization). In some cat litters, there are up to three fathers of kittens. In humans, two is not unheard of, but usually the zygotes of competing fathers devour weaker competitors prior to serious embryonic development (really, this is true).
The comparison was rhetorical, but it will also be noted that you “don’t have to offer anyone anything” despite your demands for men to white knight and pay for your dates.
BTW, Your desire for a beta further confirms that you’ve aged out of the prime market (and probably already have a kid or two by an alpha — I’d bet on it).
And finally:
I sincerely hope you’re right, and that none of us will ever (again) get an ass-raping by some opportunistic skank.
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Astute observations again Roissy. Bravo!
Same to Dragnet above. Spot on!
As just such a member of “ghost-nation” I can attest to Dragnet´s description being spot on for me. And one or two pals.
Never had a chance with them in my early brainwashed “nice-guy”/mangina days. Now that I finally understand the “fairer sex” AND the extend of societal brainwashing going on, I couldn´t be bothered less to support one of them and their rotten civilization.
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Nice of you to allow the sisterhood to continue to hijack your threads like this, Roissy. What an Oprah moment, what sharing of tender feelings and girlish insights! Like having them around as exemplars of the feeble female mind? Or perhaps to demonstrate how easily men can be baited and distracted from their true purpose?
They’re still looking for their beta white knights. I honestly hope they find some. Just what they deserve.
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Roissy:
You should have told your piece that if Asian hottie’s bf wasn’t good enough for her, you’d offer to go fuck her instead (since obviously you are good enough for your piece). Bet that would shut her up.
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just an overall criticism.. this site focuses too much on sociobiology… when the trend of the West is radical narcissism. when viewed this way you don’t have to drivel endlessly about evolutionary “fitness”. It is quite simple: they are jealous.
here I troll…
The idea of women wanting hypergamy is preposterous. Western women are entitled and self-delusional. They see the movies and they want true love. This gets popped by about age 18-22 when they realize that they will never get prince charming or true love that they thought they were entitled to get. Hence, overwhelming bitterness and resentment being the driving factor of their lives… unmet expectations. Instead of romantic idealism, they devote themselves to manipulation and destructiveness.
So the sabotage of other relationships of every other woman is to be expected. Among older manipulative women this is using their conning skills to destroy the relationship or better yet, the fantasy is fucking their friend’s boyfriend.
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If that 20yo were my sister, the 50yo would likely get his ass beaten.
First, she 28, and doesn’t need big brother to take care of her. She made the decision.
Second, given his age and experience, you are more likely to have gotten the beating (or shot first if you strike the first blow…self-protection and all that).
Granted, in this case the 50yo is upfront with the Asian girl about not wanting kids, but a gamed woman has limited ability to make sound decisions. So her frineds are right.
Maybe, but it’s not her FRIENDS decision, is it? Her FRIENDS aren’t fucking him (they probably wish they WERE, but that’s neither here-nor-there).
I’m not worried about the old boy. He’s got game, and he probably has a couple on standby, if he’s truely alpha.
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“Dr Satoshi Kanazawa, an evolutionary psychologist from the London School of Economics and Political Science, said the smarter a man is, the less likely he is to cheat on his partner and get caught.
Fixed.
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Look at the description of the guy they are trying to hook her up with. Father material? They don’t give a fuck about finding a decent guy for her. They only care that she is not with her current boyfriend.
Nail. On. Head. I mean, what did gf offer about this other guy…that he’s a “good dancer”? Yeah, if you call jerking around on a dance floor dancing, I suppose. I bet the 50-something can foxtrot and tango all over his arse. 🙂
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Welmer may have been harsh but did expose the flaw in skadi’s position. Male investment goes with female chastity. White knights don’t live in the land of slut.
Its like the prison dilemma. Rat on friend, get 1 year or don’t rat on friend and risk 5 if they rat on you. Of course if both remain silent both get off free. Unless they both have absolute trust, expect ratting each other out.
If the man commits in a hook up culture, he becomes the sucker, and thus he will see low investment mode as a viable option. In the hook up culture, not only is he likely to be punished for commitment, he also is rewarded with more available sluts.
So the game is to sex it up in the race to the bottom and let socialism and soft female benefits transfer wealth( flex work and tax exempt day care for females with children while beta keeps doors open) from betas to alpha offspring. Though socialism probably affects the female mind more which cascades to the male reaction. The female does not fear of repercussions for lack of chastity as in the past. Yet they seem blind to the fact that many men do not want to be the white night with a 30 year old slut.
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I think that western men are the enablers of the attitudes of western women.
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@fu
What you call “radical narcissism” is non other than hypergamy. The western woman thinks she is so good that she deserves at least a regular guy like a doctor or better even if she is a 6 and a communications major.
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About that story of the aging beauty at 40, sheez.
How dumb and cruel women are. She just crushed her boyfriend, and then women complain they can’t find good men. Do you think that guy, or any of his friends who hear his story, or any of the men who read her story, will ever be really good for a woman?
I have to agree with the pessimists. But, you reap what you sow.
Anyway, the advice given to the Asian girl by her white friend was fine. If the Asian wants kids, she has to get out of that relationship, pronto. He is just sucking her good years out of her. But, why not? Maybe he was the guy in that story.
BTW, Roissy is so right. He says that most unPC things, like a woman’s social worth is simply the worth of her physical appearance. Yet, that article simply underscores the truth of his statement.
When you consider that they all get old and ugly, gaming is a lot better than buying.
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” It sounds like some sort of an attempt to charm a woman with words and some mystical “swagger”,”
-Swagger is mystical? What else is mystical? Feminine power and the sacred bonds of sisterhood? Please…
“no matter if you have the money or real manly qualities (like the ability and willingness to be the provider/protector).”
-You get to define what “real manly” qualities are? Don’t think so. And your lame definition sounds a lot like slavery to me. Real fucking manly to be a beast of burden / cannon fodder for some entitled, spoiled princess like yourself.
“There is this silly saying that women love with ears, haha. But many women are smarter than that.”
-Only a tiny percentage of women are smarter than that, and hardly any when they are young. Women might as well wear a sign on their forehead that says, “Please brainwash me.”
“In such cases, me and my girlfriends just say “he’s just pouring you syrup”. It’s when a man is “sweet talking” to try to get you in bed… Which is nice and perfectly acceptable if he is hot.”
– And if he’s not, then you are being harassed and verbally raped, and he should be thrown in jail to suffer real rape and government backed harassment. So empowered you are with the Force. Now come back from the darkside. And its only acceptable for women to have an opinion when they are smart enough to know they really aren’t that fucking clever, which my masculine systemizing logic determines you are not.
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Hypergamy is self-destructive behavior.. they risk pregnancy, emotional distraught and STD’s. Modern women are highly self-destructive because they get nihilistic from the modern dating world… and you’re right.. because they didn’t meet their 6-ft doctor prince charming who they deluded themselves would marry them. When she met the doctor he dumped them after four weeks of rough sex to go back to his four other girlfriends.
The older hotties are the worst because they hold the highest fantasy of perfect romance and are the most entitled. there is nothing worse than a gorgeous 26 year old. She’s a ball of anger, depression and bitterness pissed off at her lesser friends who have found love and romance. There is no such thing as an unmedicated and sane gorgeous single 26 year old.
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It’s easy. Roissy’s point is obvious.
Look for the motivation: she wants something out of it. But not saving her friend, or helping her friend, this is BS. She wants to keep “established pussy order”, hers. True fact.
“I introduced them”, “I know what is best for my friends”, “I can choose men suitable for my closest”, “I made her dump the old guy”, “I am de-facto queen pussy ruler”.
I met some women of this kind, they just want to have emotional control over their friends. From my experience they are not good looking and are very heavy-handed; they are so deceitful they end up deceiving themselves, ending being hated even by they most beloved best friends they are “helping”.
“SRLSL”, why would the friend try to hook up another guy? If he is so good, why not take him for herself? I’ve never seen a girl who finds me good trying to hook me up with some of her friends — unless it served another purpose! (jealousy attack, showing power, having power over a shy and insecure female friend, etc)
There is no such thing as “female friend”, even to girls. A girl is her own friend.
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@Welmer-
Stop playing so nice. I was horribly offended that you did not insult Skabeeze to the level she deserved. Some people deserve a rhetorical rape, some people deserve a rhetorical gang rape, but she at least should have had a rhetorical train ridden on her. I hooked my bitch-slap-caboose up to the white-knight express apparently, so hopefully that balances things out some. I don’t care how thoughtful she comes off, so did (Godwin’s law) and other equally misguided yet evil people.
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Chi-town says, “In the hook up culture, not only is he likely to be punished for commitment, he also is rewarded with more available sluts.”
That’s how it should work in theory, but on the ground level, a small number of men monopoloze the majority of women. The sluts who are available to the unfortunate majority of men are not top tier women.
Most men don’t have much game.
There are ways a guy who doesn’t have much game can get access to relatively okay women who are “sluts” (of a flavor I prefer to call benevolites a.k.a. “ethical sluts”), but this requires breaking away from the herd…at least during festival season.
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Love it Roissy! Quit your day job already. We need daily posts, daily insight into the treacherous female mind.
One column idea: full-blown research into the “bad boy” concept, with stories and anecdotes. I need to become more of a bad boy.
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Commenter Jesus is right.
Example: Oprah. Same thing. So you need to take the woman down. Not just in private, but in public. Make her look like a sad, foolish, pathetic and sexless old fool.
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“You (and the misogynists on this blog) will never see the treatment that a white knight would get.”
Umm…these days “white knights” get taken to the cleaners by women in divorce court. So you may want to hurry up an snag your “white knight”. He’s an endangered species. Destined to go the way of the Dodo Bird.
I’ll break it down for you…
Feminism Killed Chivalry
#1
Feminism created misogyny. Before feminism there was chivalry. Putting women on pedestals. Talking politely in the presence of “ladies”. Women and Children First off the Titanic. No more. Feminism completely degraded femininity, and with it, our whole culture. Put simply when women stopped acting like ladies (feminism), men stopped acting like gentlemen (chivalry).
#2
In the ole days white knights cherished and protected LADIES. Never tramps, whores, and bar wenches! Since there are no more ladies to cherish and protect (see #1 above) Sir Lancelot (alpha male) on his white horse has been replaced by Don Quixote (beta male) in his white Hyundai. Today’s Don Quixote (beta male) will eventually tire charging at windmills (imagined enemies of illusionary “ladies”). Repeated experiences of getting crapped on by women will cause him to snap out of his stupor or kill him (suicide).
Extra Credit
What became of Sir Lancelot (alpha male)? Well, he shed his white knight armor to become a black knight. Ravaging and pillaging is now his calling. Today’s mating relationship between the sexes rewards Black Knight behavior. White Knight behavior is punished socially (in the workroom and courtroom) and sexually (in the bedroom).
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not really following the comments tonight, but i was skimming and saw some scandi name spit THIS:
“Elin Nordgren made a big mistake. Humans make mistakes. ”
aaaaaaaaaand i’m out!
i miss the good old days when doug1 used to pull a pdiddy and say “i’ll takethat takethat takethat” and ensconce in knowledge
it was yuummy
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OTOH, often a girl will use their girlfriends to help pry them out of a relationship they dont have the confidence to leave without encouragement. when a girl badmouths her boyfriend to mom or friends, she is just setting a ticking time bomb which goes off at the point her friends finally convince her to leave. women like to make decisions like the japanese: seek a consensus.
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i’m wrestling with gig and the faggahs (fag/betas) about releasing 28 year olds into the wild on some kind of net morality/productivity. for mr. 50 spot, if chickie was 32, i’d say bone away, her flower has wilted regardless. i’m thinking about 3D bell curves though. age 28 asian = age 32 western white femmie. age 20 is ok for 50 year old creepos, 26 is not, 32 is. someone needs to publish an etiquette manual.
race included hopefully… any black chick can get wifed at any time; that’s a net positive (obviously)
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Skadi:
“Gdi, different men deserve different treatment. You (and the misogynists on this blog) will never see the treatment that a white knight would get.”
You _do_ realize many of us got here due to the treatment we got as White Knights, right?
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Nothing wrong here. What’s interesting is how people are blaming the girlfriend rather than the Asian chick. Attacking the former’s motives without looking at the situation objectively. Does that mean Chung Li has no autonomy whatsoever? So when a player seduces your girl, do you pin the blame squarely on Casanova?
In any case, breaking it off the silver-back is probably sound advice. As mentioned up-post, guys warn other guys of gold-diggers. Does that mean we want to bang her? We probably do want to bang her, but that’s not our reason for talking you out of a toxic relationship.
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roiss-man,
experiencing this currently myself …. its like i am playing chess with 8 invisible opponents .. every possible conceivable thing in the book has been tried on me ..
mediocrity it always desires company … distinction can walk the lonely road …and distinction must pay the price of envy … and all those negative emotions associated with insecurity borne out of mediocrity ….
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Welmer is a man who is pretty darn committed to focusing on raising his kids and going to work, which means that in reality he’s likely to be tripping over women whenever he leaves the house and goes further than halfway down the driveway. A lot of bitches can’t help but be drawn to a guy who says that he’s not interested because he has more important things to do.
not all, but a lot of them – it’s an interesting thing to witness how many do just about everything you can imagine trying to be the one to “land” the most difficult and resistant, sometimes even downright hostile individuals. It’s like going hunting for deer with a slingshot and trying to get the biggest pair of antlers (still attached to the deer of course, but the trophy is how many points it has.)
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My girlfriend’s friends harang her about me not paying her bar tab in front of them, and in one case not paying for her plane ticket to a wedding we went to.
Entitled princesses trying to project their snottiness onto her. Whenever their names come up I make sure she knows what I think of their personalities. Doesn’t hurt that they are overweight and only get the attention of the occasional BBW pump-and-dumper; I remind her that she has a committed boyfriend because she’s not like that. The subtext is obviously that if she ever pulled that sh** I’d be gone.
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TN bill on divorce would require equal custody of children
By Janell Ross • THE TENNESSEAN • March 16, 2010
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Twitter FarkIt Type Size A A A Next Page1| 2| 3Previous PageA bill that would evenly split child custody in contentious divorce cases is drawing national attention to Tennessee and dividing groups along gender lines.
On one side is a powerful alliance of women’s groups, some judges and the Tennessee Bar Association, who say the change would make divorces tougher to settle and give abusive ex-husbands leverage they shouldn’t have. Spending half of the time with each parent will also impose impractical schedules on kids, they say.
On the other is a bevy of fathers-rights groups who say children are being deprived of full relationships with both parents. Courts have for far too long ignored laws calling for custody decisions to be made in the best interest of children, they say, and judges are overly influenced by notions about the mother-and-child bond.
If the bill passes, Tennessee would become home of the most gender-neutral and revolutionary child custody law in the United States, observers say.
Committee hearings on the bill have drawn standing-room-only crowds full of mothers wearing saucer-sized lapel stickers that read “Vote no on HB 2916″ and fathers wearing everything from military fatigues to business suits. Even two grandmothers testified that their sons’ children never got to know them because of uneven custody arrangements.
Right now, parents divorcing in Tennessee — or unmarried parents trying to work out custody arrangements — are encouraged to work with a mediator to negotiate a plan. Under the pending bill, courts automatically would divide children’s time equally between moms and dads unless one parent can prove the other is utterly unfit.
Several other states, including nearby Missouri, start from a presumption of an even custodial split unless there has been abuse, said Janet L. Richards, a law professor at the University of Memphis who specializes in child custody matters. But Tennessee would be alone in requiring clear and convincing evidence that one parent is unfit before dividing custody unequally.
“This law sets up a standard of proof that’s just short of the criminal standard of beyond a reasonable doubt,” said Richards, a member of the Tennessee Bar Association’s Family Law Code Revision Commission
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“GdI, different men deserve different treatment. You (and the misogynists on this blog) will never see the treatment that a white knight would get.”
Thanks, Skadi – truer and more hopeful words have never been spoken, at least not on this blog.
My life is devoted to being NOT the white knight, which is why I am successful with women and enjoy a happy and full love life. Since I am the anti-WK, women are practically lining up and paying money to suck my c***. The minute a woman shows any WK-like expectations of me – BANG, the bitch be gone! The line to fill that spot is long.
As several posters have noted, an awful lot of the guys here are recovering WKs. Better late than never.
American woman are sadly and slowly waking up to the inalterable reality that decades of cruel mistreatment of American men is rooting out betas – they disappear, sad and lonely, into gaming and masturbation – and giving unprecedented possibilites to alphas. What you reap …
You can see the gnashing of feminine teeth right here, every day. But girl-whining ain’t changing nothing.
Life’s a bitch, and so are you.
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Great to see Roissy nailing home the concept that those who would deny older alpha males the fruits of their acquired abilities (in terms of dating beautiful young women) are, by definition, white-knighting betas. Some guys don’t even get game until they are 40. Do they need to then abstain from going after what should have been theirs 20 years before? @PA should be wondering why he bothers to be a regular when almost everything he says is along the order of “I will kill you guys if you ever try to date my younger sister”. This is the attitude of too many social conservatives in the Republican Party and it is in a head-on collision with at least the subconscious mentality of baby boomer males as they grow older while holding higher status than other males.
If a man wants an MLTR he needs to follow this advice:
1) Meet as few friends and family as possible because they all become surveillance cameras from the moment of contact. Every new one you meet can be the one who spots you with another woman somewhere. Each could decide to dig deep into Google. Never mind the additional problems discussed above.
2) Never admit to not wanting more babies, because you’ll lose the best looking young woman in your MLTR if you do. Sure, women who are smitten by a man will not listen as he openly says marriage is a trap, but its best not to dwell on this or she might actually tell her friends and family you feel this way (which will cause some to react as Roissy described one did above).
Those who talk about the “ethics” of “leading a woman along” are exactly the same as Victorian era betas, even if they pretend to generally agree with Roissy. It might get unethical if you drag a woman who wants babies across the menopause line, but worrying about a woman having a great relationship with an alpha during her 20s is downright misandrist.
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Skadi – GdI is entirely correct that the white knights do not get the best women and I say this knowing you are apparently an attractive young Latvian woman. Almost by definition, those who condemn older guys and younger women are likely not to be getting anything themselves from young, beautiful women. You’ve said that you would, conceivably, date an older man but the only ones who would attempt this would be the non-white knighters.
An abbreviation of what just got caught in moderation:
1) Men who wish to date more than one woman at a time, must try not to meet any friends or family because they become surveillance cameras no matter how much they like him.
2) It is stupid for an older man to tell a younger woman that he does not want babies and a happy home. First of all, it should be true as a possibility for him to say he probably wants kids and secondly, as Roissy wrote: Not Lying for Sex > Lying for Sex > Not Lying for No Sex
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One of GdI’s comments earns it’s way onto my blog under “pithy observations of others”. Thanks fella.
I found that my ex-wife’s friends did some of the sabotage – especially the skank Brit ones. They do it to my friend’s Slovak wife. She takes great pleasure in ironing his shirts and cooking his food but the Brit skanks are constantly trying to make her feel exploited.
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“Black Flag
“Women are evil in ways men can only dream of because they use love as a weapon. Men are too straightforward for that.”
Please tell me you grasp the irony of choosing this particular venue to make such a declaration.”
Of course I grasp, the irony of it, but you don’t see the bigger irony. Game is a learned response to the realization that women are indeed not all that caring or loving unless its with an alpha. Its been a big societal conspiracy for a long time, perpetuated by women to maintain their position on the pedestal. Even then, they’ll move on as soon as he’s not alpha enough anymore and lie cheat, and steal to take everything from him he’s ever made or earned. Women are only virtuous in their own minds and limited by their ability to commit violence and get away with it. That’s a good thing too, because they have never learned the numerous conflict deflating behaviors men all learn. I don’t even think they understand the concept. Give a woman power and the first thing they do is become tyrants. The Ancient world had a much better understanding of human nature and women than we do today.
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I agree with Jill et al. It’s not that this guy is old, it’s that he is not interested in marriage or children.
Roissy, imagine you have a buddy who has drifted into the “nice guy” role with some hot babe. He’s paying for “dates”‘; acting as her emotional tampon; and not getting any action. He stays with her because he is in love and thinks he has a chance.
Of course you would encourage him to look elsewhere. Well it’s the same thing here — this asian girl is blinded by erotic love and her friends need to encourage her to dump this guy.
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The number of so-called alphas, including PA and Doug1, perfectly pleased to have this bitch make a serious effort to fuck over another man’s apparently happy relationship, is just astounding. Ha! PA even wants to beat the older guy up for daring to have a relationship with the Asian girl, just because Roissy’s “friend” thinks Asian girl is unhappy deep inside and wants babies. Hint: It’s a relationship –the older guy didn’t buy the Asian chick from a sweatshop when she was 3. If she want’s babies, she can decide that for herself, then tell the guy that and leave. Christ! Meddlers and their cheerleaders make me sick!
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Roissy is point blank on target. I’m 43 and was dating a 28 year old nurse (We have three major hospitals within 20 minutes of my house) so they are a dime a dozen. We had just entered our third month and wham out of the blue she tells me her friend (fat friend who I thought I had won over) thinks I’m not serious and my GF should get some sense of commitment from me.
I knew I was in trouble. The relationship from that point on went downhill. This was so predictable. It had happened several times in the past and frankly, unless your willing to commit or outright give a bold faced lie to preserve the relationship, the foundation of the relationship will continue to have it’s underpinnings loosened until the meddling bitch succeeds in toppling it all down on your head.
I have tried negging GF’s as followers or sheep for listening to their miserable friends but that doesn’t seem to work long term.
Miserable women like company. Their friend’s happiness just increases their misery.
Any suggestions on how to deal with this type of intervention from meddling GF’s? My current strategy is to delay the inevitable until I can identify another girl.
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@ Tupac Chopra
“But when a dude wants to relax in an LTR, do you think he wants to go out partying every night? Hell no. If he did he would just keep swinging the bachelor life. More likely he is content to stay home and occupy himself with more substantial (if muted) interests.
And then you get his GF’s cunt friends trying to drag her out all the time, insinuating her BF is “boring” and “no fun”, sometimes whispering tales of this or that guy in the “scene” who is just sooooooo hot and cool and fun.
Fuck that shit. The minute a guy in a LTR relents and tries to keep the pace with those folks, he has given up the frame and will be single soon enough. Either the bitch gets with the program or she can get out.”
This has been my experience also. I’m a bit older and date a wider age range but it seems till a woman reaches her late 30’s she is susceptible to her friend’s manipulation. But the problem is that who the hell wants to date a woman approaching 40?
I almost feel sorry for the saps who still try to take the traditional line in a relationship and become that “boring” boyfriend as they assume a man’s traditional responsibilities. I’m not ruling out marriage for me in the future but it sure as hell won’t be to an American bread woman. They are damaged goods. It’s like buying bruised vegetables at the grocery store when you can have unblemished vegetables for the same price.
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The stipulation that one must avoid meeting friends and family only applies toward women who don’t know you are seeing others. Even then, one cannot go too far out of the way to avoid inevitably meeting some friends and family. It is just that this will produce roving cameras. So, for instance, leave before the cousins from the other side of town arrive after you’ve had brunch with the parents and the brother.
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Z, I’m not surprised. Tennessee was also the first or one of the first states to have Natural Hairstylist certification and license renewal tests online. Someone in their government is forward thinking and realistic.
I think these things go hand in hand: the desire for the people to have legal ways to make a living, and the desire for the people to have fulfilling lives in general. If the government doesn’t give a crap, or people with a chip on their shoulder are allowed to act out their grudge on the general population, there’s trouble.
Tyrone, I think you’re on the right track, but it’s not about power in general. It’s about a power dynamic, and natural gender roles that hold true, despite the presence of a few notable exceptions.
Feminists took the exception and try to make it the rule. There are women who can competently manage and rule on a large scale, and who are naturally dominant on a small scale. There are female warriors and others who can joyfully and skillfully handle traditionally masculine roles and occupations. These women’s talents do some good for humanity and should not be forcibly suppressed. However, on a family scale and in general, women are not equipped for these things, and should be free to do things they are equipped for.
Men should not be disappointed that women prefer alphas. Men are naturally built for this because they are physically stronger, and don’t have to incubate, and it is part and parcel of being a male primate to be in the competition for alpha status. A man’s natural role is protector and provider, and that is a good thing.
It means that if you aren’t in denial, game is pretty much all you need to have balance on a personal scale. Be the man, and no woman can threaten your status because you’re holding up your end of the God or Nature determined deal. She can beat her head against reality all she likes, and it will get her nowhere…and if she’s not completely insane, she’s going to like that.
Like fuckability is the seed of crazy love for men, respect is the seed of crazy love for women. It’s just the yin and yang of the thing. Embrace it. Don’t be disappointed just because it means you’re not as off the hook as you thought you were. Yeah, it’s going to mean some work, and some not always getting to express your feelings. Being the woman is no walk in the park either.
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@ Black Flag
Well, yes—but the “alpha” that heads the traditional male hierarchy was always defined quite a bit differently than the guys assigned the “alpha” label by the Game community. Please don’t confuse the two—you seem too intelligent for that particular error.
What I meant to say was that a healthy dose of aloofness is the path to “alpha”—that is, the “alpha” as defined by the Game community. You cannot seriously doubt this claim and have an understanding of Game.
And Roissy isn’t the only blogger in the Gameosphere. Check out The Obsidian Files, Assanova, etc. Broaden your horizons, baby.
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This is honestly a situation where the repeat enough until they believe idea works: Tell her what you think of her friends, time and time again. Make it funny and not overly mean, but make your thoughts be known…because her friends sure will be doing the opposite. If there is mutual hate, shell rationalize it as “they just don’t get along” vs. “what is wrong with him that they dont like him.”
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A situation i went through a years ago cemented that “get in good with the friends” mindset
I was friends with two girls, lets call em Girl A & Girl B.
I got into verbal fight with Girl A, Girl B was away at the time.
In public when i’d try to get the attention of Girl B, she’d ignore me.
This happened so many times to a point were the only response i could get from Girl B was through a email.
She basically told me that she was childhood friends with Girl B (even sayin they had a friendship code), had taken her friend’s side and would therefor would act like i did’nt exist.
—————————-
If a woman is’nt smart enough to leave what she does’nt want (man who just wants sex) and go after what she really wants (man who wants kids/family), shes’ a dumba**.
Why should the man be seen as the villain when a woman can’t make a decision and go after what she really wants ?
So big is the red flag of the woman who needs her friends & family to help her make good relationship decisions.
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PRISONER CHARMS FEMALE GUARDS [Salon]
http://www.salon.com/life/broadsheet/2010/03/16/prison_sexual_abuse_by_women/index.html
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nicole – good insights all around on this thread..
sabril – ..hmmm …so you would impose your point of view on a happy relationship ..un-asked because this possibly weak woman can be manipulated/influenced by you ..?
how good is your life ? how clear are your relationships? I’ll bet not very ..why? because if they were you’d mind your own business ..unless asked … ..or unless the guy was abusive..or a complete liar ..(has a family in the next town or something) ..or is secretly gay using her as a cover..
how do you know whats best for her? ..do you know the future?
in my own relationships ..I intellectuallly and emotionally dismantle women “FRIENDS” like you ..you know why? because the way they act is complete emotional arrogance with no responsibility to the result..
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ps
the film “as good as it gets” with Jack Nicholson has an appropriate line for this situation
..in the film ..famous writer Melvin when asked, “how he writes such great female characters?”
He responds, “I think of a man ..then I take away ..accountability and reason”
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There is no evolutionary reason for this.
Women are just evil.
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“We have intuition about this.”
No, you don’t. What you have is a lack of ability to understand the reasons behind your feelings.
The fact that you don’t have reasons doesn’t make your feelings “intuition”.
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To dragnet,
About the males in the Western society having to change, it was not meant literally. They should become more supportive IF they want family/children, and IF they want a long term relationship with a working woman (as 70% of women are). They don’t HAVE to.
Men dropping out is not a new phenomena and has been apparent since 1990s, having intensified over the last decade (along with the mainstreaming of porn and a range of other degenerative traits in the Western culture). The men who will adapt to the changes, will not remain alone, the ones that won’t will be gone. Japan is an aging society, let them deal with it as they can with their imposed patriarchy. And you don’t need to bring up Russia, as I come from Eastern Europe and have seen with my own eyes what happens to men in times of transition. Men are very vulnerable in such circumstances and their natures are just too rigid, so they break down. Many men will be lost, it’s sad… not because of how it’ll change the gender balance (because in the West it will be different), but because of these men themselves, some of them who are good Western men. It will be very traumatizing.
Western guys who opt out.. this trend is obvious, but it is not new, now it’s just become more of a conscious decision on behalf of the Y generation guys. Not all, because most are still biologically pulled towards mating (not just sex, but towards real unions), but some/many are indeed opting out. It doesn’t seem like it’s the majority though. If that’s their choice and if that’s what makes them happy, than that’s fine. If they are content on their own, with their dog or with buddies, let them have a good life on their own. The problem begins when they fall into delinquency. That costs society real money.
Women also increasingly do not have the romanticized vision of marriage anymore. Younger women have seen what their mother’s marriage has been like. For those of us who come from fantastic, intact families, this is a shock, yet it’s a reality for all to see. Remember that no matter how “family oriented” women are thought to be, women are changing too. Many men today are not boyfriend/husband material at all. For self sufficient women, a man must bring assets to their lives, an added value. Marriage and relationships are no picnic. They can bring a lot to the table if they want to. There are still white knights out there, even if they increasingly seem to be less of a norm, – family men, men who take their duties seriously, men who have enough strength and common sense not to be soiled by this misogyny. But the other half, the ones that are only interested in gaming and easy sex, who want their cake and eat it too (who want a hottie even though they’re not hot or gentlemany themselves), who are infested with stds, who are not interested in commitment, in creating and raising children – let them go and let them have their choice. But it is certainly partly their fault that this civilization is dying. Many of us will simply stay single, while some women will have a child on their own. At this point it looks like the smartest thing to do.
And you guys need to decide who you really want – the whore or the virgin, since you can’t praise both of them simultaneously.
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Yes you can.
A higher percentage of Russian men are alphas than elsewhere. As Moscow is now the 3rd most expensive city in the world, many have and are doing quite well for themselves.
Skandi: You are seemingly deliberately misunderstanding the meaning of white knight.
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Jerry, we have a completely different understanding of what a white knight is and what is valuable in a man.
Hahahah, Moscow! Russian men having the highest percentage of alphas? Haha! We must have varying understanding of what an alpha is. Look at the REALITY of a Russian man – not just the millionaires in Moscow. Out of all the population, very few are alphas, most are suffering one way or another.
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Oh, and Russia has a terrible demographic problem, which Mr Putin is thankfully finally trying to take care of.
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Skandi’s definition of white knight seems to be the man who successfully makes her believe he might marry her and give her the money and security she wants. Admittedly, this is the standard definition used throughout the world. This might be, for her, a greater beta Swedish man in his 40s. But it is not what men are talking about on this blog.
A “white knight” on this blog is clearly a male who speaks against his own long term interests (for instance a young man who supports Cougarism while defaming older man who date younger women) or it is a man who speaks out against the interests of other men about something in which he has no real skin in the game (eg, a social conservative who threatens to beat up anyone who dates a younger sister he doesn’t have or a 20 year old daughter he doesn’t have). I’ve never understood the latter – are they trying to ingratiate themselves with older women reading this blog or, in the case of Republicans, trying to get a date with Sarah Palin when Bristol is the one who is single?
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Russia is probably the main bulwark against feminism now.
Obviously a Latvian woman is not going to be looking in that direction because of the history, but I really hope that Latvian women aren’t going to ideologically go in a different direction from Russian women.
Skandi: What particular professors and orgs in Latvia helped give you your feminist beliefs? What percentage of the elite Latvian university female students think like you?
Are any of these institutions being funded by the US somehow?
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Skadi,
what you describe allows the alphas to have harems. Moreover, I’ve grown amazed at how easily women will slide into the role of concubine and still worship their man if he rings her bell enough. All you have to do is keep them nominally apart and discipline them when they get too nasty. Its really very easy.
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So Skadi, do you cook borscht? How about pelmeni? Halupsi? Do you work in the garden and can all your vegetables? Do you make good pickles? I bet I could find you a white knight if you do all that and give good head and like doing it.
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She sounds like she would do that for a man who successfully conveys the impression that he will be the provider and protector. She forgets that a Roissy principle is that a man has to do what he has to do, to the point of convincingly lying when necessary for sex, even if the lie has to be maintained for several years – especially regarding the other women he is seeing.
She is possibly a great catch with her high IQ and all, but what concerns me is who got to Latvian college students with a confused US feminist message.
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In other words, Skandi, a man who wants to date you won’t necessarily be open and honest with you about his intentions. If he senses you want a nice husband and a big house by the ocean and a knight in shining armor (who isn’t militaristic at the same time), then an alpha will morph into what you fantasize a man should be…by definition (alphas win and delivering a woman’s fantasy mostly wins). To prevent yourself from being tricked, you will almost have to deliberately seek out a man who doesn’t seem like he would ever read a blog like this and otherwise seems naieve…or see that he really does hand over half his wealth to you before sex.
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Can’t answer you, Jerry, my posts are too long to get through. LOL
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“She is possibly a great catch with her high IQ and all, but what concerns me is who got to Latvian college students with a confused US feminist message.”
Who says Skadi is Latvian? I haven’t seen it anywhere. In any event, if she is indeed Latvian then she won’t cook Russian dishes probably and will be influenced by Scandinavia. However, I don’t think she’s Latvian. She talks like a woman from the FSU.
About US professors corrupting Latvia, Latvians, Estonians, Lithuanians, speak similar but distinct languages and are closely related to Finns. A certain amount of this conversation is cultural dissonance as well. I don’t think Skadi necessarily understands US culture as well as she thinks or understands how life was before Feminism. In fact most of us here have never seen a world without it being a big influence. She is judging all of this from an Eastern European perspective to a large extent, hence the desire for a white knight and the misunderstanding of why game evolved and exists in the first place here. If she’s true to that culture, she’ll likely make an excellent wife, if properly led. Ona xochet Muschino!
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“Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.” — Robert A. Heinlein
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Tyrone, not understanding what the U.S. was really like before feminism is a major blindspot. If a person doesn’t have a good bead on the history, they won’t see how feminists in later waves basically hijacked human/civil rights.
Without unions, the intellectual and medical community, and true egalitarians, they’d have been dead in the water. It took the nation to bring the nation forward, and they did it because they wanted a better country for families, not just for women.
They wanted a society wherein a woman could work if she needed to or was so inclined, and a man could maintain his dignity without working for slave level wages so that his wife *had* to work to make ends meet.
If even the marching, hunger striking feminists from back in the day, saw what was going on now, they’d probably weep and ask, “What did we do all that for?”
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I can’t answer any of your posts since I’m being censored.
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My words are like special snowflakes that humanity cannot possibly be deprived of.
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Aw man, missed out on this discussion. The comments went places I didn’t expect.
I *hate* meddlesome friends for the most part, because even if they truly have my best interests in mind, they don’t have the finesse to do it in a way that doesn’t seem nosy.
If the girl in this story was truly concerned for her friend being stuck in a dead end relationship:
1) she would have a PRIVATE heart-to-heart talk with her, gently prying out her true feelings about not having children – and if that’s a dealbreaker. And if it bothers the girl, gently asking why she doesn’t end it. If the girl is having bonding issues, then she would probably tell her that “If you decide that it’s not worth the trade-off, let me know if you want support. The guy you’re with is great, but you have to be sure you’re ready for a life without children and those other dreams you have. I’ll support you no matter what you do… that’s what friends are for!” (Gotta add a little bit of the fakey sounding “heyyyyy” style in so it’s not too serious)
2) if a guy potential came up, she would pose it with far less pressure tactics… would again *gently* bring up it, politely feeling it out… OR, she would not even bring it up and let the guy just *happen* to join them out some time and see if she feels something
Otherwise, everyone was spot on that most girls meddle out of competitiveness OR out of jealousy.
Now what’s really interesting is when your friends all just love the guy you are with… especially your girlfriends’ husbands/boyfriends. Men who meet my Guy seem to just love him… and he has a lot of friends too, a very easy and natural popularity since he was young.
I guess men think he’s really cool (he is pretty funny and laidback, suave)… and he has an adventurous spirit. He usually ends up being invited to “Guys Night” or random bachelor parties after barely knowing someone lol. It’s interesting… ha. With the girls… not sure, they seem to like him… sometimes too much but that’s easy to shut down.
A good strategy for girls who want to avoid meddling: HIDE YOUR GUY AS LONG AS POSSIBLE. No joke. I did this and some of my friends have… all engaged/married pretty quickly. It avoids the jealous b*tches factor along with people messing things up by filling your mind with weird doubts. And he doesn’t get annoyed by your friends as well, and in fact is greatly curious about why you never invite him out to meet them 😉
Aaah I’m talking too much about myself… oh well it’s fun to dump the baggage on random strangers hahaha
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P.S. No one mentioned the fun wordplay.. i love Agent Provacateur lingerie campaign 😉
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“Its been a big societal conspiracy for a long time, perpetuated by women to maintain their position on the pedestal.”
Women don’t want to *be* on the pedestal, Tyrone. They hate it there. But no, men cannot understand that and must be forever chaining them up on one and using love to keep them from escaping. They use it and use it until it’s all used up, and then it’s all the woman’s fault because she is “heartless.” Never in all his hurt does a man pause to consider what he has ruined.
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@Dragnet
“And Roissy isn’t the only blogger in the Gameosphere. Check out The Obsidian Files, Assanova, etc. Broaden your horizons, baby.”
Perhaps I will. But it’s hard to believe anyone else would write with as much sass–although the moniker “Assanova” is crudely amusing, I must admit. Am I truly missing out?
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Ohio
I think this gets close to the point. Rollo had a few good things to say also and I’ll just paste his entire comment:
Jesus
I think you get closer to the bone with this cut:
I don’t think girls value honesty and forthrightfulness as much as men. What for men would ruin a friendship isn’t part of the female process. They have their own status hierarchies and ways of climbing within those. It’s terribly, terribly important to women, this female status hierarchy thing. Men don’t get it because we don’t care because it’s not our status hierarchy. It’s a separate and parallel social system.
This is, by the way, one more reason why I say that men can’t effectively socially shame women. They have a separate social system, and are shamed only by other women. Men must create dominance over women in order to have overall social control, but this battle is not easily won, as women are born and bred and expert at banding together to raise their groups overall power. To cock block, to hold out pussy for favors or commitment, to tease, to be secretly non-monogamous, to manipulate men and women to do their bidding, to enslave men so adeptly that the men not only think they are using free will, but proudly claim now “in love and devoted” they are.
Men have traditionally kept the power balance through conquering the material world. Wealth and safety. We must do that again: no chivalry. No free drinks. In the supply and demand of favors for favors, we need to act like women and cock block out the free gifts of material wealth (the male version of pussy). No more big weddings. No big diamonds. No more marriage.
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Someone above made a comment about how western girls try to keep the easterners from acting in their traditional sexy-subservient ways. They want to liberate the women from the onerous task of tugging at hubbies heart and groin strings in order to keep him engaged in giving her full attention. They want the supply and demand to be keenly tilted in favor of their supply, and want to be able to assume a high price. And discount what men offer, and don’t want anyone washing dishes in return for a the male side of the bargain.
The supply-deman, male vs female worth is totally fucked up in the west. And frankly, it’s fucked up in the east. Its fucked up everywhere, except for men who want.
The trick as individuals and as society to get into more balance is change that dynamic.
For me it’s all about dominance. Dominance, dominance, dominance. It’s not a dirty word. Let it roll around in your mouth. Remember as a kid how you loved playing the cowboy and dominating over the Indian? Remember the feeling of pushing a big tonka truck in the sand? Recapture that child like playfulness, and dominate your environment. Dominate your woman. Win at life.
Women like to be dominated. She’ll fight and kick and scream. Until eventually you’ll hear from her own mouth words like “I don’t know why I love you, you’re such an asshole”. And then even later, if you part, “I like him, but he’s too nice. As you know I like a man who is more an asshole, like you”.
Dominance. It’s not a dirty word. Its how you get things done.
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“sabril – ..hmmm …so you would impose your point of view on a happy relationship ..un-asked because this possibly weak woman can be manipulated/influenced by you ..?”
Sure of course if the woman were my friend or family member and I thought she was making a big mistake.
“how good is your life ? how clear are your relationships?”
Decent.
“how do you know whats best for her? ..do you know the future?”
A lot of the time, yes. For example, I’m pretty confident that a woman’s Romantic Market Value will drop pretty dramatically between ages 28 and 35.
“in my own relationships ..I intellectuallly and emotionally dismantle women ‘FRIENDS’ like you ..you know why? because the way they act is complete emotional arrogance with no responsibility to the result..”
Lol I’m a man.
Anyway, I’m a little unclear. Are you saying that the girl in this scenario is not making a mistake? It seems pretty clear to me that she is sacrificing her future happiness for her present happiness.
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Black Flag, I think you’re quite simply wrong. Women want to be on a pedestal very much. They are the ones who invented chivalry along with the church and have gone to great lengths to perpetuate the illusions needed to ensure they stay on the pedestal. They just want to abandon the pedestal whenever it suits them and pretend there are no consequences. Sorry, but no cigar.
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Nicole said:
“Tyrone, not understanding what the U.S. was really like before feminism is a major blindspot. If a person doesn’t have a good bead on the history, they won’t see how feminists in later waves basically hijacked human/civil rights.”
I remember pre-feminism. I’m 48 and my wife is 31, so I also have a foot in the current generation’s world view. That is what I’m personally angry about. I’m constantly amazed at the knee jerk efforts to discredit prefeminist society in the US as some kind of KKK wife beater’s paradise. DV wasn’t even more common, and always a huge stigma and always rare in the middle classes and above.
No man beat his wife and bragged about it, despite common delusions to the contrary today. In fact, in my little world, spouse abuse was still very rare and dealt with realistically by the police since very often it was mutual when it did happen. I personally never saw evidence of nor heard of it in my childhood.
Sexual harrassment is another chimera we’ve been forced to swallow as has been child abuse and affirmative action. Your statement above is why I have concluded that feminists at least, are evil and seek to make me a third class citizen now that I’m already a second class citizen. I think all they want to do is shoot me and take my property, but still have that pesky constitution to worry about, so they try the sneaky methods instead. I get angry when my rights are trampled on. I’m sure you can relate.
Women in the late 60s generally thought feminism was stupid and didn’t want to leave the house for a career. It was seen as the domain of all those strange lefties on TV with the long hair and silly clothes. All the women in my neighborhood were perfectly happy watching children and taking care of their families. I’ve talked to a few of them since and confirmed this. Women today are more stressed and angrier than they used to be because they have been fed unrealistic expectations and have been given legal remedies to punish men for not guaranteeing them fabulous lives.
Women entering the workforce immediately made housing prices shoot up and the cost of many other things as well, so suddenly we had to all get a second income. Then we had greater expectations for the good life as a result that never materialized and no time to raise our kids properly. Divorce was presented as liberation from oppression and children without fathers as the preferable arrangement. In the meantime, women have lost their support networks within the neighborhood and nobody knows anyone else. Now the state hires legions of women to do the work that was created by this vacuum and viola, we have captive Democrat voters!
We used to have block parties all the time and the kids ( about 20 of us) would play hide and seek until ten or so, while their parents sat outside and chatted together. That is how I grew up, off of beltway exit five West in Northern Virginia from 1969 to 1979. My younger brother lives there now and the neighborhood is comepltely different although it has kept up and even improved in terms of its status and general material condition.
Feminism ruined all that was good about the family in its attempts to correct what was wrong and has destroyed the long term viability of the nation as a result. If most young people saw how life used to be, they would be as angry as I am. They would say, that is exactly what I want, why can’t we have it today?
I find most people who complain about our society today, are really seeking what we lost. What we replaced it with is a cheap substitute for the sake of a tiny minority of elite women’s desire to find self actualization. Men and women have been set against one another and made into enemies. You were sold a Marxist bill of goods. You’re God damned right I’m angry!
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[Anyway, I’m a little unclear. Are you saying that the girl in this scenario is not making a mistake? It seems pretty clear to me that she is sacrificing her future happiness for her present happiness.]
Some of the people here said that, because the older man had stated clearly that he did not want children, the other woman had the moral right to meddle. Most agreed with Roissy that she had no reason to meddle, especially in the bitchy, under-handed way she did.
Where the real danger lies here – and what will be crucially important to Roissy’s future happiness with younger women as well as a lot of our future happiness with younger women – is when people like Sabril imply that the age difference relationship would be bad for the woman even if the man stated that he wanted children and marriage.
Already, around the world, plenty of really young adult women are being trained to suspect older men of being permanent players. If International VAWA passes in Congress, the USA will be giving $1 billion per year to foreign feminist satellite organizations to spread this kind of ugly concept. Older US feminists would like nothing more than to propandize the world’s young women not to date older US males.
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sabril – from the info provided – people would have to assume she’s making a mistake …it is certainly not clear- in my previous posts I discussed why
..he’s not shown to be abusive, or a liar, or any deep character flaw.. only negative was he’s older and doesnt want kids..
from the info provided it is purely bringing your own beliefs, prejudicies and bias and then thinking you know whats right based at best on a GUESS of the future – all motivated on this young woman’s WISH to have kids..
Why dont most wishes come true? – because they are weak flimsy ideas floating by in a persons mind..no foundation –
– mathematical probability is weighted heavily against a relationship started from the premise “he’s young and is willing to have kids and I want them” – society is littered with the broken family result of this addiction to a fantasy mindset –
You sacrifice whats working and could work better – maybe she could show him she’s ready maturity wise in a year or two – maybe he’d change his mind.. all maybe’s ..yes but so is the probable success with young good dancer Ben..
To presume you know better -male or female- is arrogance ..to push people into multi year ..in fact lifelong commitment because of your bias is irresponsible at best
..that fact that you have no skin in the game and 5 years out when she’s stuck in family court with young Ben’s kids ..you probably would say ..I’d like to help..lets talk ..but thats about it ..just talk..you’ll recommend her a good lawyer ..and help her get free medical from the govt. ..cause you are a good friend ..Ben wont know what hit him ..and the kids ..no sure they’ll be fine
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@ Tyrone: Great stuff … I’m almost a decade younger than you, and I grew up on the other side of 495, but I have a lot of the same memories. Feminism was already having a baleful impact when I was a kid, but my mother stayed at home and we had a pretty traditional set-up. All that is gone; where I grew up no longer exists, in any sense.
Young men today dimly sense what has been lost; but they need to know, this country needs them to ‘get angry’ per Dodgeball, if anything is really going to change.
The gender dynamics circa 2010 that Roissy writes about so perceptively and elegantly (and hilariously) are simply the logical, and highly perverse, conclusions of what feminism began wreaking on our society forty-plus years ago (don’t forget that Updike called the 70s “when the 60s happened to everybody” – very true in my experience). The best writing on this is Dr Devlin, everybody needs to read him to comprehend what’s going on.
It’s nothing less than the complete collapse of society as it has been known for centuries, millennia. All over now. We are, like BOC, Dancing in the Ruins. Since men have so little power today, might as well get laid a lot and enjoy the ride into the abyss …
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fu said: “Hypergamy is self-destructive behavior.. they risk pregnancy, emotional distraught and STD’s. Modern women are highly self-destructive because they get nihilistic from the modern dating world… and you’re right.. because they didn’t meet their 6-ft doctor prince charming who they deluded themselves would marry them. When she met the doctor he dumped them after four weeks of rough sex to go back to his four other girlfriends.”
Listen up, girls. Dat is da truth! (Figure it out before you’re 43 and childless.)
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Heads up to all PUAs that there is a media and social media frenzy about Rodney Alcala, a serial killer PUA from the 1970s who finally got convicted for good and is awaiting a sentence of death. Today people are looking at his extensive photograph collection to identify missing women he would have also killed like Ted Bundy. It is all over the news.
There is a huge danger that the social conservatives and feminists will now try to do what they did during the Ted Bundy trial, which was to try to turn women against men who might try to meet them, especially with ruses like wanting to take their photos or other, normally harmless, stuff that every man has a right to do and many happy marriages resulted from.
Like Ted Bundy, Rodney Alcala was good looking and had a high IQ and lots of charm. Feminists and Social Conservatives hate men for having that in the first place. Imagine how much hay they try to make when it turns out a serial killer was like that.
Don’t underestimate the ripple effect of this on your own PUA activity and don’t underestimate how fear of males can result in more regulatory laws that would force more third parties to background check men at every turn.
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Specifically, men who don’t have the persuasive power to ask women on beaches to pose for photographs, are going to get white hot angry on message boards across the Internet that women let Rodney Alcala “trick” them into posing for photos in their bikinis…as if there was anything wrong with that, in and of itself. The message will be “stop serial killers cold by not responding to any PUA techniques”.
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“he’s not shown to be abusive, or a liar, or any deep character flaw.. only negative was he’s older and doesnt want kids.. ”
“all motivated on this young woman’s WISH to have kids..”
He doesn’t want kids and she does. That’s a huge mismatch in values.
Yes, it’s an assumption. It could that the friend is mistaken or lying. But it’s hardly an outrageous assumption — it’s very common for young women to want children.
“mathematical probability is weighted heavily against a relationship started from the premise “he’s young and is willing to have kids and I want them” – society is littered with the broken family result of this addiction to a fantasy mindset – ”
I’m not sure what your point is. Assuming that a big desire of hers in life is to get married and have children, which is more likely to lead to a happy life:
(1) Being the girlfriend of a man who does not want marriage or children;
(2) Being the girlfriend of a man who does want marriage or children.
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you keep assuming sabril – thats the point ..
if it was a big desire she’d already have kids at 28..
and you seem to dismiss or not address every relevant point ..mainly …It’s none of her friends business especially the way it was done ..like a glib, deep as a thimble gossip monger bitch ..
..much better was lovelysexybeauty approach above
whatever to each his own …I’ll bet if you had to pay the price for that advice..you’d be much more discriminating with it..
cheers man nice discussing it with u…
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Tyrone,
I am a housewife. I didn’t really like my job so when I had my son it was easy to walk away from. I have to say it is actually a nice life for a woman. I don’t get why some women used to say it is so unstimulating, because I have time to read books and things like that. My job was actually more monotonous than being home. I know I’m lucky and that a lot of women have to bring in some income in today’s economy.
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“Laura
Tyrone,
I am a housewife. I didn’t really like my job so when I had my son it was easy to walk away from. I have to say it is actually a nice life for a woman. I don’t get why some women used to say it is so unstimulating, because I have time to read books and things like that. My job was actually more monotonous than being home. I know I’m lucky and that a lot of women have to bring in some income in today’s economy.”
Thanks. You’re right, it has become a privilege and is no longer common. many women also have no idea how to occupy themselves at home anymore either. They were there back then too. Some women want to work, but I think there is too much social pressure created to force them to work. Sweden has made it official policy. Its been my experience and the experience of most men I know, that their wives, girlfriends generally prefer to stay home when given the chance. I personally don’t have a problem with it, if the wife is happy and pleasant to come home to. In fact I prefer it. Most of the women in my neighborhood growing up would spend a good part of the day chatting and watching each other’s kids. We played outside all day in the summer. I think its perverse that this has become the exception nowadays. There were no hidden tragedies seething beneath the surface in every family or anything like that either. Women had an equal say in most families. My own father was probably the hardest headed one in the neighborhood that way. Still, my mother had as much control as she wanted. Some people were happier than others, but I guess that’s just normal. I don’t think we can go back now. No one remembers those days anymore and society is too atomized. Expectations for happiness are too high and self examination is too rare. Most people under 35 in the DC area grew up with every conceivable need well met and dozens of entertainment options with nothing expected in return. You can still find this kind of life in small towns in certain parts of the country, but they will dry up too with the industry, that we’re also running out of the country as fast as we can. America had its problems then too, with racism, etc. but they have generally corrected themselves and would have anyway. Most people just don’t hate everyone else and never have. The biggest problems holding back the poor in America today is family breakdown and poor education at the K-12 level and of course the death of industrial America as well. Sometimes recessions are good for the national self reflection they bring.
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xsplat
“We have intuition about this.”
No, you don’t. What you have is a lack of ability to understand the reasons behind your feelings.
The fact that you don’t have reasons doesn’t make your feelings “intuition”.
GENIUS.
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“you keep assuming sabril – thats the point ..”
So I’m assuming . . . so what? You are assuming too. For example, you assume that this girl is really 28. Maybe she’s actually 63. Maybe she’s actually a man. Maybe the 50 year old man in this story is actually a woman. Maybe Roissy made the whole thing up. Who knows?
“if it was a big desire she’d already have kids at 28..”
That’s right, because there are no single and childless 28 year old women in America who want marriage and children.
Dude, what color is the sky in your world?
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sabril
see if you can answer this honestly with no hostility
Would you give the unasked for advice if you were held responsible for the results?
and in this case lets say there were two possible outcomes..
1) 40% chance her and dancing Ben live happily ever after
2) 60% chance her and dancing Ben ..have kids ..marriage fails they get divorced ..and she struggles to raise her kids amid acrimony and poor relations with Ben
in the first instance you get a forever thank you
..in the second you’d have to pay $500 a month ..for 18 years
would you give the advice? if the answer is no than STFU is the time honored rule ..unless there is abuse or danger
I was responding to the info in the example what was given ..
ps future happiness is a mirage..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inductive_reasoning
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“1) 40% chance her and dancing Ben live happily ever after
2) 60% chance her and dancing Ben ..have kids ..marriage fails they get divorced ..and she struggles to raise her kids amid acrimony and poor relations with Ben
in the first instance you get a forever thank you
..in the second you’d have to pay $500 a month ..for 18 years”
I don’t understand your question. Who is dancing Ben?
And shouldn’t we assume that this girl would prefer marriage and children, even with a substantial risk that the relationship will fail?
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Sabril, intent is not really the issue in this so much as delivery, and what that says about the interfering friend’s intent. There is a way you go about things when you really care, and a way you go about things when you’re trying to impose your ideals on someone else.
Change the frame for a moment, and imagine this was a male friend who another friend felt was aiming too low. Let’s say the girl was in a wheelchair.
Would you feel okay with offering your friend able bodied women?
This is what we’re talking about here. A guy with a kind of physical disadvantage being discounted merely because of desires expressed prior to getting involved with him.
He’s 50 freakin’ years old. Nobody in their right mind who wanted the conventional marriage and children thing would start dating him in the first place. Like a girl in a wheelchair or hey, the more common fat chick, he may not be the first thing that springs to the adolescent mind as their “Mr. Perfect-prince-charming” but love is not about perfection or even deserving.
She should be allowed to make up her own mind. Her desires might be changing. She might be okay with not having kids as long as she’s with him, especially if she has siblings who already have children. It’s not all on her to pass the genes or something.
If he’s actually mistreating her, that’s something a friend should care about…but maturing? changing desires? Whose business is it to get between that woman and her man? If he’s treating her well, and she’s paving a realistic path for herself based on a real, deep, deathgrip love, then she should be praised for growing the hell up, not discouraged from growing up and accepting love where she finds it.
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Dang can’t leave her alone even for a few weeks he he he
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“Let’s say the girl was in a wheelchair.
Would you feel okay with offering your friend able bodied women?”
Maybe, it would depend on the facts. If my friend wanted children and this woman wanted him to get a vasectomy, then yes.
“He’s 50 freakin’ years old. Nobody in their right mind who wanted the conventional marriage and children thing would start dating him in the first place.”
That’s not necessarily true. 50-year old men become fathers all the time.
“She should be allowed to make up her own mind.”
Of course. And it’s ok for her friends to give input into the decision, IMHO.
“If he’s treating her well, and she’s paving a realistic path for herself based on a real, deep, deathgrip love”
The second part is a pretty big “if.” A lot of people think they are in real deep love only to find it fade a few years later.
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Sabril, if you would try to hook up a friend who is in a relationship with someone you consider inferior because of a physical difference or disability, then I understand why you wouldn’t see interference as a bad thing.
…and to be honest, I consider bucket-crabs just one of the obstacles anybody in love has to deal with.
If folks take anything away from this thread, it should be that if or when you find someone you really want to stay with, these kinds of “friends” should be kicked to the curb post haste. It’s one thing to have criticisms, and quite another to willfully attempt to sabotage someone’s relationship.
Life is not a fairy tale, and love doesn’t always come in a perfect pretty package. Someone who’s too immature to get that shouldn’t be trying to fix other people’s lives. You need to grow up first.
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nicole- perfect !!!
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A Perfect Example of How Friends Negatively Influence Women
http://fullofgraceseasonedwithsalt.blogspot.com/2010/03/perfect-example-of-how-friends.html
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mother in laws? scheming shriveled envious wenches. trust not.
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How do you deal with this? If the friend is trying to fuck things over, how do you get the friend to stop? Tell your girl to stop being friends with her?
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Wow, this situation basically just happened to me (where I’m the Asian girl who was told to dump the unapproved older guy).
And, to bringthemovies: you don’t tell the girl to stop being friends with her. Just like people say, bros before hos, it’s definitely chicks before dicks, even if they’re
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Wow, this situation basically just happened to me (where I’m the Asian girl who was told to dump the unapproved older guy).
And, to bringthemovies: you don’t tell the girl to stop being friends with her. Just like people say, bros before hos, it’s definitely chicks before dicks, even if they’re homewrecking.
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