Relationships generally follow the same trajectory, despite men and women having contradictory mating goals. The optimal trajectory for each sex differs as such:
For men:
– Meet
– If alpha, seduce. If beta, butter up.
– Sex
– If nothing in common, date for a few weeks
– If something in common, date for a few months
– If falling in love, date for a year
– If willfully ignorant, marry
– Divorce
– Start over, poorer but happily still in demand
For women:
– Be introduced through social circle
– If man alpha, relinquish. If man beta, puppeteer.
– If nothing in common, one date and done
– If something in common, date for a few weeks
– Sex
– If falling in love, dream of marriage
– If smart, marry
– Divorce
– Start over, richer but regrettably older
For every long term relationship, sometime between the six month to one year mark, the woman will angle to get you to marry her. Dumb women will attempt to accomplish this through the injudicious use of ultimatums. Devious women will apply the more sophisticated tools of a covert operation. But nearly all women will want marriage sooner rather than later, and their men will be left wondering why, if the relationship is going so well, such a superfluous notarization as marriage is necessary. Usually, the women win out, because most men are weak when confronting possible loss of reliable pussy access.
If you are a man who can face the marital abyss and not flinch, then at the one year mark you may be put into relationship limbo. This is what it implies — a relationship in a holding pattern with a woman who is slowly withdrawing her affection. She will go to bed without sexytime, make breakfast for herself instead of the both of you like she used to, start complaining that you hog the bed, happily recite a list of her friends who are getting hitched, ceaselessly mutter about your “incompatibility”, bitch that you don’t take the “initiative” (read: “propose”), and generally become a sourpuss around you. This is because women get very, VERY, pissed and bewildered when their prime directive (to get married) is thwarted.
Now, there is a catch. The problem for men is determining whether relegation to relationship limbo is the result of the girlfriend’s infidelity or her marriage denial blues. Unfortunately, the symptoms of either are remarkably similar. A woman who is cheating on you will withdraw sexually, stop being considerate, and bitch you out a lot. A woman who is worried and anxious that you have no intention of marrying her will lash out likewise. Your job, as a man, is to figure out which succubus has possessed her, for the solution to handling either demoness is quite different. A cheating woman will need more alpha from you. A despondent woman will need more signs of commitment from you.
Deciding which dark path she is on is no easy task. Women are evolutionarily optimized to be fantastic, nearly undetectable, liars of things both great and small. And what is the greatest lie of all than the lie to hide the pedigree of a man’s child from him so that he may raise it as his own? Women who were bad at lying about cuckoldry were quickly weeded from the population, either by violence, avoidance, or expulsion. And so Darwinian selection ensured that those women who successfully duped beta mates into raising alpha progeny would need be liars of an exemplary sort.
Thankfully, Darwinian selection also ensured that a humanitarian saint like me would come along one day to give you the tools to help you discover if your woman is a sneak cheat. Namely, if she’s branded with identifiable markings of sluttitude, she is more likely to be a future faithless whore.
If you have convinced yourself beyond a reasonable doubt that your girlfriend is not cheating on you, then you are left with finding a way out of relationship limbo. You could take the path of least resistance and propose marriage. But that is lopping off one’s left nut to spite one’s cock. For a woman who has proven capable of withdrawing affection from her man is a woman who can — and will — do it again, to get what she wants, wedding band or no.
Relationship limbo is a dangerous place to be for men. It can drive the male mind crazy with thoughts of abandonment, or worse. His mind swirls with the concoction of nightmares, and his confidence betrays him at the moment he needs it most. In order to defeat it, you must know yourself first. Do you eventually want to marry? Then decide if she is the one for you, and take the leap into or out of her arms. The purpose of limbo is to incite resentment in you, thus making it a simpler endeavor for the woman to conclude that you are worth leaving. If she is not the one you want to marry, prolonging your time in limbo will only feed your resentment, no matter how mastered your art of aloofness, until it boils over into a dramatic breakup.
If, like me, you fully grasp that marriage serves none of your interests, but you like the girl you are dating and want out of limbo, you have two choices. Either stoically accept that every relationship has an inborn lifecycle, and that marriage is simply a delay tactic to push the lifecycle beyond its natural limits, and allow her to leave to find the man who would give her what she wants. She has already poisoned the well, so what further benefit from the relationship can you realistically extract? Limbo more often than not delivers you to hell than to paradise.
Or, have her fall so deeply in love with you that she betrays her own female edict. A woman truly in love won’t be able to contemplate leaving you without pain shooting through her sternum. She may be sad at times that you haven’t proposed, but her sadness is short-lived as it surrenders continually to her joy.
A woman who has put you in limbo does not love you with abandon. She instead loves you like most women do; with an eye toward the pragmatic. She is attempting to manipulate you, consciously or not, to reach her own ends. A man has two noble goals in life — the pursuit of sexual pleasure, and the winning of a woman’s heart in toto. A man has not lived until a woman has loved him without proviso.

Second. No, first!
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“For a woman who has proven capable of withdrawing affection from her man is a woman who can — and will — do it again, to get what she wants, wedding band or no.”
Amen, brother, amen. I’ve got the scars to prove it.
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So would you say that a good sign of a woman’s true love, is when she is willing to marry you if you are poor with no prospects?
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well said good sir, ties in nicely with inspiring the dread of loss.
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Ya sure you’re not a mutant?
Had mutants never changed the pace,
Would Man yet lead the Reptile race?”
– from The Space Child’s Mother Goose
Hope you’re not starting to go all megalomaniacal on us…
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I’m guessing your next post explains this process in detail, no?
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What you forgot to mention is men in LTR or marriage are “civilized” by their wives, meaning they become more beta, meaning they lose some of their alpha attractiveness, which speeds up the process towards divorce. Maybe this is why the older generation spent a lot of time at all-male golf clubs with the guys smoking cigars away from their wives.
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DAMN.
Congrats, you have taken game knowledge to the next level clearly & succinctly.
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A man has not lived until a woman has loved him without proviso.
It’s true.
Other things a man has not lived until he has experienced:
– pure animal fear in another man’s eyes in a confrontation (as long as you’re in the right and he’s about your size; bullying someone is overcompensatory)
– has created a child (hedonistic life has its pluses but seeing a baby with your own face is impossible to relate to until you expereince it for yourself)
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this was an interesting post, but I feel like it was a little short on practical advice. make a girl fall in love with you, and you’ll be fine. boom.
i think we’re missing a step here. especially because it sounds like a lot of the aloofness and game-playing you usually advise won’t fly as well with girls at this stage.
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Ohio, I agree, there is a tendency for some girls to fatten up and otherwise render their men undateable so that they won’t be able to stray. Men need to learn not to accept their girl’s silent invitation to blob out.
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A guy who marries to keep the mediocre sex going is an idiot.
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I wonder what Roissy thinks about alpha-aspiring folks who are also religious and/or have a patriarchal bent to them. I happen to think that a man who has desire for children and a stable and religiously blessed relationship like marriage can also have alpha qualities. In fact, I think having those qualities is absolutely vital to maintaining a good relationship with the spouse and raising children correctly.
As we’ve all seen in the last few decades, there are far too many sub-betas with kids that are raising their sons to be pussies and allowing their daughters to be turned into sluts.
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What if you actually want to marry and have a family (otherwise I agree, no point in marriage) ?
What characteristics should such a woman have?
My thoughts:
basically sweet and kind (better a 7 of this kind than a 9 who isn’t)
has a job (not a career)
generally happy/well adjusted
hopefully from the mid-West
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“Maybe this is why the older generation spent a lot of time at all-male golf clubs with the guys smoking cigars away from their wives.”
Well, OhioStater. that could explain it. As a matter of fact, it makes me want to start one back up. But then I’ll have those amazon, manly female lawyers on me like white on rice.
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This entry is definitely an important contribution to your oeuvre Roissy, well done.
Just for the writing an amusement, loved the line:
This one in women’s preferred list of relationship first year progressions I don’t quite understand, not that it’s crucial:
It’s fairly clear that the first bit means she wants the alpha to relinquish some of that alphaness to be more under her spell. The second bit means SHE will puppeteer HIM. There’s a switch of implied actors there I guess was my confusion.
Anyway, one can only suppose that this topic is rather, ahem, relevant to Roissy’s own current love life, considering various hints he’s dropped. It’s what 9 mo to a year now prob.? Well, enough of that.
Anyway, some larger observations. Younger girls that aren’t yet that marriage minded can go well over a year without putting marriage pressure on you, subtle or not, without putting you in relationship limbo. It’s not so much her age that matters but rather whether she thinks it’s time to be husband hunting. And yeah girls often do leave this until too late for their long term best interests, if what they’re most interested in is to find an marry the best combo man more than experience an optimal number of quality men.
What guys should do when she starts putting pressure on you or putting you in relationship limbo is reaffirm that you love her but that you really don’t believe in marriage as it’s come to be and as feminists have made it in America today, marriage 2.0 much less divorce 2.0. Yeah its time to start telling her why. The very wide tendency for marriage to greatly diminish or kill good sex with it’s excessive security esp. for women these days. And the utter unfairness of women being able to cheat, discovered or more often not, and then get American divorce theft from her husband who wants to make the marriage work anyway.
But you do feel committed to her, really committed, as well as deeply loving her. You want to live together. As better than getting married. Or at the very least a tryout to being married. Living together you learn a lot more about them than just dating and being together as bf/gf. You wouldn’t even consider marriage w/out living together.
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ASF,
Here are my wife’s qualifications:
– A perfect ten in my eyes, and probably 8.5 to 9 to most everyone else.
– Sweet, kind, caring, religious and good with kids. She did a lot of volunteer work with the poor and tons of babysitting.
– Career minded and intelligent but OK with being stay at home too. And her career would be special education teaching. She has a degree but is not in the workforce yet because she got pregnant shortly after the wedding.
– From the South. Oh and her parents are pediatricians.
She can be independent and challenging at times, but it’s also nice to have a woman who challenges you to be stronger and more alpha. Before I started dating her, I’ll fully concede I was 100% beta around women while taking out my frustration with failure with them in the gym and in mixed martial arts training
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omg roissy i love you 2 death but u forgot some important steps!!! lozlzlzlzl
For men:
– Meet
– If alpha, seduce. If beta, butter up.
– Sex (butthex if you are tucker max–charlotte allen’s fav. alpha lzoolz)
– If nothing in common, date for a few weeks (why not pump and dump if you’re an alpha)
– If something in common, date for a few months (while you pay for everything)
– If falling in love, date for a year (and a total idiot looking to get ass-raped by “love” lzozllz)
– If willfully ignorant, marry (yeah ignorant & stupid too)
– Pay for all her chochkies and car and room and board and cable as she gets fat and turns off sex to you while sleeping with her law boss so she can make partner.
– Divorce (police-state raids your home and bank account lookig for evidence)
– Get ass raped in divorce court
– Get your children stolen from you and pay alimony and child support with which she fund alpha cock sessions
– Start over, poorer but happily still in demand in prison where they love your butt lzozlzlzllzzlzllzlzlzlzlzlz!!!
For women:
– Be introduced through social circle
– If man alpha, relinquish. go doggy style on the first date. If man beta, puppeteer and get him to buy you dinner before texting alpha cock at midnight lozlzllzz.
– If nothing in common, one date (expensive meal) and done
– If something in common, date for a few week$ ($$$$$$$ meals/concerts/weekend trips while banging alphas who are too alpha to pay)
– Sex (once every month to keep the beta ATM machine kchingin)
– If falling in love, dream of marriage (followed by anal rape of man’;s assetts so you can have funding to bang alphas which alphas are too alpha to provide)
– If smart, marry (turn off sex to initiate divorce. hopefully he will get mad once as he knows you are banging your boss as he can see teh cum dripping and you can call teh police on him and use it as a record to rape his bank and shiznit lzozlzlz)
– Divorce (anal rape his bank acocunt and futur retirement to fund alpha banging)
– Start over, much, much richer but regrettably older, and use the al;imony to finally get that gym membership and a butt tuck and facelift and boob job so that former beta husband funds your cougar prowling. lozlzlzlzlzlz
lzozlzlzlzllzlzlzlzlzlzlzlzllzlzlzlzlzlzxlzlzlzllzlzlzlzlzlzlzl
men–women view the act of dating as a sign of betatude, dude.
dozens of men got it for free when it was younger/hotter/tighter/tighter/hotter/younger.
we’re all lzozllzlzlzzlzlzing at you and so is she, ben bernanke, and the police state!
lzozlzlzl!
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Now to the dumb, follow-up question:
Is there a single line follow-up answer on how to go about option #2, or is it called
“Read all of Chateau/Roissy’s posts + the entire Alpha Male curriculum + learn the hard way”?
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She did a lot of volunteer work with the poor
Re your ideal wife’s qualifications: that miiiiight be a red flag for her being a soft-headed liberal. I find that a hint of hardness in a woman is a good thing. It lets you know where her loyalties are. A wife needs to be practical in some respects and direct her giving nature to you and yours, not to the whole fluffy world around her.
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Soft headed liberal? Dude, she wants the Department of Education abolished and public education ended; basically all schools should be privatized. On social issues she nearly goes so far as to advocate for the abolition of welfare and Medicaid because stopping the abuse is so difficult. In reality we’re both OK with temporary aid to help people genuinely struggling and looking to work themselves out of a hole but hate people who screw with the system to get as much on the dole as they can. But she does like to help the less fortunate and as a Catholic I heartily endorse assisting the poor as long as it’s done out of the goodness of one’s heart, not because the government is forcing you to do it.
As for hardness, the woman took a year off of school to go live in inner city St. Louis and work two jobs as a waitress. She was the only white girl in a bad neighborhood. She’s plenty tough and independent when she wants to be. After a year she realized she was being too hard-headed and went back to school and took her parents’ financial help.
And finally, I assure you friend that her giving nature is directed to me and our children. She’s a fantastic mom and a very good wife. An excellent cook and her other talents are good as well.
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Bucket, I’m not knocking your real-life woman or even talking about her. It sounded like you were listing an abstract ideal set of qualification for a hypothetical wife.
So yes guys, beware the soft-headed liberal girl who wants to make the whole fluffy world better.
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PA – in the semi- to full on fundamentalist Christian circles, some amount of charitable work with the downtrodden is to be expected (and its absence would be a red flag).
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Intersting notion, PA. A commutard for a wife seems a risk to be always viewing everything in terms of equality. As in, did I do my equal share of scrubbing the bathroom this month.
You’re right – red flag on the commutard views.
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Titan: fundamentalist Christian women are a subculture off the radar of this blog’s readership and these women don’t have a fluffy notion of the world.
Secular / Christian-lite girls who volunteer do. That’s who I was talking about.
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more marriageable characteristics:
doesn’t hold grudges against parents or ppl from past or have 3 ex BF’s she “hates”
very generous–buys you little gifts and surprises you
makes a lot of food for you with love and pride
no dark moods–she can get angry or annoyed, but if she gets “depressed” for periods of time, run
never tries to down you in public (or ever if possible, but publics a big nono)
agrees with your values and has a sense of impersonal justice–tell her other men’s divorce/cheating/paternity horror stories, how does she respond?
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Dana
Yup. It never gets better. Some people are broken and stay broke.
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dana writes,
“more marriageable characteristics:
doesn’t hold grudges against parents or ppl from past or have 3 ex BF’s she “hates” .”
lzolzlzlzlzlzl!!
yes dana–i love proposing to girls who still have 3 ex BF cocks they love who all got her when she was younger/hottoer/tighter for far, far less than i am about to shell out.
lzozlzllz!
fellas–teh secret is to be one of thsoe ex’s–not the beta supporter who has to go down on her and pay $$$$$ 2 taste my fresh, hot cum. lzozlzlz!!!
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lozlzlzl
that was written ASSUMING a man wanted to marry a woman–obviously, and one from TODAY, not 1863
there are still men who want to marry for various reasons, choosing right at least gives them a shot at a decent match
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May I state the obvious? If you haven’t hacked into her email account you have the word idiot stamped on your forehead.
Do you waste years of your life often?
Women are pathological liars. Unless you are in their phone and email accounts, you are going to be conned and she will have fun doing it. The only way to know she is in love, unless you have ESP, is to check this.
Beware that what you find you may not like as you sally forth into the septic tank of hidden female secrets.
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dana!! lzozlzll!
how do you choose which cum dumpster 2 marry?
the one filled with cum that loves those who put the cum there, or the one willed with creamy cum who hates those who put it there…. lzozlzlzlzllzlzlzllzlzlzlz!!!
why not just put some more cum there & take off?
love or hate you, she will respect you more. lzozlzlzllz
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Are you still in D.C.? Because I can hear your balls clanging from Texas.
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Any relevancy this entry had unravels on one basic point: why would any Alpha have a live-in GF in the first place? Particularly to one so dedicated to non-exclusivity. Relationship limbo and all the accompanying manipulations and maneuvering loses it’s efficacy if you’re not sharing the same living space.
Perhaps this was intended as an educational hypothetical to help those in need, but the simple answer is to keep as many plates spinning as convenient and all at arms length.
Iron Rule of Tomassi #4
NEVER under any circumstance live with a woman you aren’t married to or are not planning to marry in within 6 months.
You are utterly powerless in this situation. NEVER buy a home with a girlfriend, NEVER sign a rental lease with a girlfriend. NEVER agree to move into her home and absolutely NEVER move a woman into your own established living arrangement. I’m adamantly opposed to the “shacking up” dynamic, it is a trap that far too many men allow themselves to fall into. My fervor agianst this isn’t based on some moral issue, it it simple pragmatism. If you live with a woman you may as well be married because upon doing so every liability and accountability of marriage is then in effect. You not only lose any freedom of anonymity, you commit to legally being responsible for the continuation of your living arrangements regardless of how your relationship decays.
I should also emphasize the point that when you commit (and it is a financial committment) to cohabiting with a GF you will notice a marked decrease in her sexual availability and desire. All of that competitive anxiety and it’s resulting sexual tension that made your single sex life so great is removed from her shoulders and she can comfortably relax in the knowledge that she is your ONLY source of sexual intimacy. Putting your name on that lease with her (even if it’s just your name) is akin to signing an insurance polcy for her – “I the undersigned promise not to fuck any woman but this girl for a one year term.” She thinks, “if he wasn’t serious about me, he wouldn’t have signed the lease.” Now all of that impetus and energy that made having marathon sex with you an outright necessity is relaxed. She controls the frame and she’s got it in writing that it is for at least a year.
Just don’t do it. Relationships last best when you spin more plates or at the very least keep each other at arm’s distance.
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“Women are evolutionarily optimized to be fantastic, nearly undetectable, liars of things both great and small.”
True, and perpetually disturbing.
Also: good post Rollo ^
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Rollo, not cohabitating makes sense only if you can’t find a workaround to the reasons you mentioned.
There are workarounds.
Some girls are bi-curious and will help you arrange sex parties, for instance. Some can be kept in sexual thrawl for a hefty good long while, and are most pleasant continual company. And cook and clean and dote.
If you aren’t living in a country with femtarded laws, a live in who wants sex parties would be a good thing.
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@Tomassi,
WTF are you talking about? Signing a lease is not even in the same universe as getting married. Absolute worst case you are on the hook for the lease…so what, a couple of grand at most? And you probably won’t even be on the hook for that. There are no laws making you pay the lease if you cheat.
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So if you’re following my recommendation, and this girl really adores you and is a great fun to be with, and you love her back and you feel like still being settled down rather than chasing new snatch some more, you invite her to move in with you. Yeah not you with her. This is probably not something to do before your 30s. I wouldn’t recommend doing it with a strong view to permanency if you’ve got a good bit of alpha in you on up until your later 30s or maybe even early 40s, depending on how much you love the chase and the new poon, vs. the steadily adoring girl.
If she doesn’t want to move in with you w/out marriage or at least engagement, esp. without strong and convincing religious grounds (which I tend to not believe anyway if she’s not a virgin or you weren’t her one and only), then it’s time to let her go. The easiest way for you will be to start flirting with and stepping out w/other girls. It’s pretty shitty if you don’t tell her, but I think most girls really end relationships this way, though they massively lie about it, as many other things in the mating dance. (They do so out of evolutionary instinct cause in olden days they ran a high chance of getting beaten up if they’re stepping out on a committed relationship/marriage.) Intermediate is to say to her that you love her and it will tear you up to lose her, but if she wants someone else if you won’t agree to get engaged right away, even w/out even trying living together first, then maybe she should try dating other guys too, to see if really someone else can easily replace you in her heart. Then of course you’re free in her reluctant mind to try the same thing. If she in fact still really does adore you she won’t just storm out. That’s a sign it’s become a calculation and she’s mostly now on a provider / dad hunt without deep bonds to you. If you give in to her in that case you’re an utter fool (like most well trained American guys).
Let’s say you’ve lived together a year, and been in a relationship for two. If her love for you is still hotly burning, you’ve got a live one who does adore you. Now she’s pressing for an engagement again. You argue why should we wreck thing with marriage, living together has been so good, the sex has remained good, why so seriously risk killing it? The real reason of course for her is 1) she wants security, and 2) she wants kids right away or down the road, and thinks she must be legally married to do that.
When she talks about security you should say that marriage has become one way security, for women only, and the opposite of security, instead tremendous risk, for men. That’s no mere argument. That’s absolutely true with marriage and divorce 2.0. That’s always true when the man earns substantially more but it’s also usually true when it’s about equal or even she earns substantially more, because regardless 85% of the time when she wants child custody and it’s contested she gets it, plus in a much larger number of cases, the vast majority, she gets it by his not long fighting it between the lawyers cause its way expensive and usually hopeless in heavily female biased American family courts today. So he’ll have to pay child support which includes stealth alimony, and no matter how much more than him she makes, that will w/2 kids if he’s a strong earner in a fairly high or high income tax state, amount to 40-50% of his after tax, i.e. take home, income. Huge. Security for her regardless of whether she ends the marriage by cheating and losing interest him, or cause she’s bored and wants to go cheat by divorcing him and having him heavily support her post divorce, but totally a huge risk for him. That’s without even getting to alimony and the losing more than half his assets to her if he’s the high earner.
The only time a man doesn’t risk huge by marrying today while a woman gets huge security, is if she earns so much more than him that that will swamp his total child support payments to her until the kids age out of them at 18 or 21. I.e. she’s a Hollywood actress or successful singing star. In all those cases they all get prenups for themselves of the kind I’m describing and are at no risk of having to pay child support. Sucks to be a man and enter into the jurisidiction of domestic relations courts today in America, doesn’t it?
So after he explains all this, she’ll accuse him of thinking she’s like that. He should say he doesn’t think she is at all, but people change and they especially do when girlfriends and American culture are all supporting women in doing this to men and dismissing growing men’s awareness as whining and wanting back the bad old days of patriarchy. The vast majority of men taken to the cleaners and subjected to divorce theft in America today, in divorces filed for by women 70% of the time, didn’t think their women would ever be like that. Marriage 2.0 somewhat, her girlfriends steeped in feminist media culture during marriage 2.0 to some more extent, and divorce lawyers and her friends and the divorce system and what she learns she can easily get (letting her lawyer do 100% of the dirty work, not talking to her husband again at all) when she starts thinking about it seriously to a huge extent, make women like that.
But you love her and living w/her you tell her, she’s the one, and you could have kids while living together – if that’s what you the guy want at that stage or in the future. You’d have a deep commitment between you. As emotionally deep as any marriage. And besides if/when you have kids together, you’d owe the same child support just as if married, if the relationship ended for any reason. Just as a woman who get’s accidentally or more often oops pregnant by a man who can pay anything gets from him these days. She just wouldn’t get half of the net of your money over her money. She’s instead get all of her money, and you’d get all of yours. What’s not fair about that in these women can work at all levels like men and can fully independent if they want to be, days? While together she’d completely participate, obviously in whatever lifestyle you can afford or the two of you can jointly. If she leaves you as is overwhelmingly what happens in all kinds of breakups of serious relationships in America today, then no she doesn’t have an ongoing right to your money other than child support when she’s not giving anything in return.
It’s a lot better to have this “discussion” when she’s been living together with you happily for some considerable time and sees how fair and enjoyable that way of living is. And she’ll feel in her gut, living with you, or the vast majority of not total golddigger American women will, that she only has a right to what’s hers, and not to any of yours, when she leaves a living together relationship.
In cases where you eventually want her to leave in a no kids together situation because it’s gotten stale and she isn’t truly adoring you anymore, not like before, following the usual (when she does become really nuts in love) 18mo to at most 4 year period of real sexual heat that Michelle Langley writes about and that evo psych people have discovered, the best way to end it is this. Unless that is she’s become truly scary violent or destructive or impossible to live with. It’s to gently tell her you just can’t live w/ total monogamy anymore.
If after her tears and various emotional outburst and ploys to get you to change your mind, she says what about me then, say you hope she doesn’t because male vs female stepping out is almost always way different in its automatic effect on the degree of sexual attraction to your mate, killing it for women after a short while when they’re unfaithful and have good sex w/someone else. (As I’ve repeatedly written.) But if you want her to move out fast rather than having a period of having her with more tantrums and freedom on the side as well, don’t discourage her from also screwing others.
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…most men are weak when confronting possible loss of reliable pussy access.
Readers of this blog should have enough game not to worry about this. Whenever one girl is holding out on me, I always have another to blow a load on. It keeps me from caring.
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http://www.theonion.com/articles/new-six-flags-ride-based-on-relationship-with-debo,17223/
I haven’t laughed this hard in a long time.
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@looozer,
you are obsessed with other men’s cocks. But you know, time does change things. I mean, the air you breathe is the same molecules that were breathed by Ghengis Khan, Hitler, Mao, and Jezebel. LOZZL! Keep breathin’ that used air, dude! I’m getting some virgin air from Ben Bernanke’s fiat air station! Wham! Air from no-where! And don’t even get me started on food. Don’t you know that food you eat was once shit! Shit from teh buxextex! Mixed with cum and flushed into the sewer, where it is recycled into drinking water! Lozzl!
I don’t know why I argue with the troll.
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PA,
Didn’t mean to jump down your throat if I did. I was describing my actual wife, but looking back you had no reason to know that. And yes, I agree that excessive liberal bent is a huge tip off that either a) she’s a feminist, b) she’s a bitch, c) she’s both or d) she’s a mindless drone. I’ve met a few moderate liberal women who had their heads on straight to a degree, but the real left wingers are insane, whorish and masculine.
Part of me likes/wants to believe that Roissy would be OK with a society where men embraced monogamy and traditional values so long as strong character was also uplifted so while alpha males may be tied down to one woman, they’d be able to put their skills to use by building a strong and virtuous nation. But maybe his pursuit of new snatch really does rule all.
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Roissy
First post here. Great site you got!
I’d go so far as to say I can hear your balls clanging in London, Yookay.
Moved out from my ex-wife 4 months ago and this article (plus your previous articles along with their attendant comments) have totally knocked on the head my one-time false goal of eventually getting re-married.
You’re right, there is NO advantage in it whatsoever.
less sex, less money, less self-esteem, less time, more beta-ization.
I’m now learning game and seeing women through different eyes. When I now think back to previous relationships, I realise that today’s me would have sniffed out recalcitrant behaviour and left ages ago in 10 out of the past 15 women I’ve been with. The other five were my fault: I let myself forget who am genetically and tried to become New Sensitive Man – no wonder I got dumped.
Never again!
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lozlzlzlzl
“Schmoe
@looozer,
you are obsessed with other men’s cocks. But you know, time does change things. I mean, the air you breathe is the same molecules that were breathed by Ghengis Khan, Hitler, Mao, and Jezebel. LOZZL! Keep breathin’ that used air, dude! I’m getting some virgin air from Ben Bernanke’s fiat air station! Wham! Air from no-where! And don’t even get me started on food. Don’t you know that food you eat was once shit! Shit from teh buxextex! Mixed with cum and flushed into the sewer, where it is recycled into drinking water! Lozzl!
I don’t know why I argue with the troll.”
wtf r u talkin’ about?
when u read my posts and see them through your beta-tinted glasses all you see are “other men’s cocks,” “ben benrnake,” and “butthex.” lozzllzlzlzlz!
to each his own!
go back to touching your wow controllers in your single mom’s basement, worshipping the nightly news. beta beta beta lzlzozlzlz
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As long as Roissy keeps writing, I will probably never settle down. Another post with a reality check. Keep up the good work!!
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Bucket,
Thanks. Sounds like she has a lot of great qualities. Nothing is a guarantee, of course, so best to stack things as much in your favor as possible.
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Rollo Thomassi
this is absolutely and fundamentally wrong. You don’t know what you’re talking about. There is the palimony danger in Cali but pretty much only there, and it’s much, much more limited than people think, less easily triggered, and can be far more easily dealt with w/less complication and formality for reasons I could explain than a prenup requires. That’s cali.
A handful of largely southern states do have common law marriages but the great majority of states don’t. As well merely living together in no state will get you treated as common law married. You have to “hold yourself out as married” which means tell essentially everyone that you are, the whole community etc., rather than just someone. Having kids together and living together w/out a cohab agreement might do it too — in THESE FEW common law states. The main idea of common law was not to let the woman fight against the man in a divorce but to let the woman inherit and collect life insurance, social security etc. like she was married. NH enforces it just that way period, and not against the “husband”. That’s the tendency generally, which no doubt varies from place to place and yeah could get way worse so do get a cohab agreement period in a common law marriage state.
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Part of me likes/wants to believe that Roissy would be OK with a society where men embraced monogamy and traditional values so long as strong character was also uplifted so while alpha males may be tied down to one woman, they’d be able to put their skills to use by building a strong and virtuous nation. But maybe his pursuit of new snatch really does rule all.
Ever try to reconcile his apparently sincere devotion to hedonism with his apparently sincere traditionalism?
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“Ever try to reconcile his apparently sincere devotion to hedonism with his apparently sincere traditionalism?”
lozlzlzlz! that’s easy.
being traditional in a hedonistic society = getting ass raped by the neocons lzozlzlzlzl
basically if a girl is gonna be a cum dumpster, do you wanna dump the cum in there or eat it when you go down on her on your wedding night?
lzozllkllllz!
i think roissy chose wisely.
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Assuming you want to get married, I would also assume that you do not want to get divorced. Given that, DO NOT MOVE IN TOGETHER! The science is clear that if you live together before marriage, for any length of time, you are much more likely to get divorced. The thinking is that the commitment level of a live-in relationship is just carried over into the marriage. This effect can last for up to 10 years. If you make it past that point, you are no more likely to get divorced than anyone else.
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Or, have her fall so deeply in love with you that she betrays her own female edict. A woman truly in love won’t be able to contemplate leaving you without pain shooting through her sternum.
The vast majority of women have an expiration date on how long they will tolerate non-commitment, i.e., lack of marriage. If a woman loves a man (generally, she believes him to be of very high value and the best she can do), she will tolerate his non-commitment for much longer than she would otherwise, but men should understand that in artificially prolonging the relationship on the basis of “love” in the absence of commitment, the woman’s happiness is going to start dramatically decreasing. She will eventually start talking to her friends about this problem – or even strangers on the internet, as I’ve seen over and over again on female-dominated forums. The more she talks to her friends, the more they will encourage her to leave. She will also take a huge hit in self-esteem, wondering why her man does not want to marry her: at this point she has given him everything she has – her body, her mind, her time, her emotions – and still it is not enough. This will eventually take its toll on the relationship because the woman will conclude that regardless of the man’s various reassurances (verbal, physical, monetary), he does not truly love her – worse, perhaps he is waiting for something better. Such a woman may not have the fortitude to end the relationship; if so, she will remain in the relationship with a diminished spirit.
If a woman wants children, especially if she feels time is running out, all of these feelings will multiply, and almost nothing the man can do will be able to make her stay. Women innately understand that the best possible conditions for raising a family are those in which the husband is committed beyond mere words to her and their progeny. In the minds of most women, marriage is more than a private sheet of paper: it is a public declaration of commitment and the formation of an exclusive bond. The average woman who deeply desires a family of her own will eventually come to the decision that it is worth the emotional devastation of losing the relationship to be free to find someone who will give her the commitment she desires for the purpose of family.
Of course, some women are satisfied with less than marriage. They may fear marriage themselves, having witnessed their parents’ divorce, or friends’ marriages going sour, or may be ideologically opposed to marriage as an oppressive institution. It’s not impossible to find women who are okay with being permanent girlfriends, but it’s a status that will never be commensurate to that of wife. There’s also a much higher probability that a woman who is satisfied with being a permanent girlfriend or “partner” is a feminist – or is so low value that she may not believe marriage is even a possibility for her.
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PA–
The traditional reconciliation is that you’re a rouge until a certain age, and then you loyally settle down w/one woman and have kids together, and stay together.
Traditonally this mean any alpha or really successful man could after a good while of being settled down, also discreetly play around some, mostly just sex w/affection but not replacement love, and thereby enjoy a form of rotating secondary polygamy, some.
First wave feminists and since have sought to take Christianity’s formally making this a sin, but one the church must and the wife very much should forgive, with repentance. As opposed to urging her to divorce him and enable her to thereafter put him in indentured servitude.
That’s how it was traditionally reconciled for alphas. For betas esp. the not so successful type, there’s always been less toleration of male cheating. It’s kind of part of the betas bargain in getting a woman to marry him that he’ll truly be faithful to her. So this is what’s commonly spoken of in theory and as the general case of marriage, and traditionally was.
Is that not so PA?
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Matt Savage
“So would you say that a good sign of a woman’s true love, is when she is willing to marry you if you are poor with no prospects”?
greatbooksformen what say you to this lad’s inquiry?
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It makes my head hurt, especially when he tries to explain it by saying he wants to return to the days where sexual morality was just a veneer, but it was one everyone willingly upheld. I don’t mean the repression of the Victorian era, but the heady days of the late 1940s through the early 1960s where everyone was married, had four kids, wives were devoted to their husbands and likewise… but the husbands had the opportunity to hang out at the pub or country club based on their class division. Oh, and they were also banging the secretary on the side but no one said a word.
The thing is that such arrangements is what directly led to the sexual “revolution” that R. despises so much. Daughters grew up seeing that their fathers weren’t so different than the average cad and that their mothers were tired of living the lie by the time they hit their mid 40s.
I know that genetically men are built for polygamy and women for hypergamy, but emotionally we’re both built for monogamy. It’s just that each side needs to be challenged in a monogamous relationship to prove their worth on the sexual market to reinvigorate that spark to keep the passion going. It’s men’s failure to recognize that they can be both alpha AND monogamous by simply re-establishing their status within the relationship in ways other than cheating or even flirting with other women that leads to divorce because of adultery or descent into sub-betatude… which ultimately leads to the same end or an unhappy relationship until one party dies. Many women, of course, do no favors for men by buying into the idea that they can be everything for every mood or thought that strikes their fancy.
I just thank God daily that my wife hates the absurdity that is popular culture and ridicules most men as pathetic wimps and women as unreasonable whores.. though she uses much more respectable terms than I.
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@greatbm
What I’m talking about is that you constantly harp on the fact that modern women have been with other men. But modern air has also had other breathers. Modern thoughts have had other thinkers, especially your worn-out thoughts of conspiracy and control. Modern water has had millions of prior drinkers. Modern food has had numerous prior eaters, and is indeed the product of shit. Even more disturbingly, we are cannibals of our 80000000000th cousin. So if you get all ooked out by the fact that women have had other lovers, that’s the least of your problems from an ookieness point of view.
As to your ideas that someone out there is actually in control, that’s a nice fantasy but it just doesn’t jive with the reality that people can’t put two shoes on with any regularity, and three people can keep a secret if all three are dead. Now go back to masturbating over your gold and trying to get the satisfaction of actual love from low-life sluts.
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@ PA, Bucket
Roissy’s thesis is this: what’s good for alpha males isn’t good for the long-term health of society. Things hum smoothly when betas are content and productive.
In the meantime, what would Roissy gain by abstaining from hedonism? Some other guy would take his place. It’s like a libertarian refusing to take a government grant, even though it wouldn’t put a dent in the scope of government.
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ronin writes, ““So would you say that a good sign of a woman’s true love, is when she is willing to marry you if you are poor with no prospects”?
greatbooksformen what say you to this lad’s inquiry?”
well, how many cocks has she had in her? how many gallons have cum have been dumped into her various orifices?
maybe she is just lonely after being mand dumped by alphas her whole life.
or maybe she is worthy of you…
would have to see her pussy and take note of how much cum was dribbling out in the backflow. lzozlzlz
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Im beginning to think, if a man has no religous or civic foibles to restrain him, that the most satisfying course for him to pursue would be to attempt to secure serial monogamy of about 12-to-18 months duration with about 20 different women until he is in his mid-forties. Then get married to a 30 year old if he wants a kid or two. If he doesn’t want a kid or two, to keep pursuing serial monogamy of 12-to-18 month durations with whatever poon he can score for the rest of his life.
If a man is in a country he didn’t care about (Brazil for instance), and didn’t fear the demons in hell possibly actually existing, he’d have a hard time dissuading himself rationally from doing just this.
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@Callahan
“Maybe this is why the older generation spent a lot of time at all-male golf clubs with the guys smoking cigars away from their wives.”
Well, OhioStater. that could explain it. As a matter of fact, it makes me want to start one back up. But then I’ll have those amazon, manly female lawyers on me like white on rice.”
Hunting and fishing trips are other such escape valves. Conventions still others. Another is a garage or work shop AKA menopause shelter. Why do you think feminists try to put the kabosh on all these things?
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Ronin–
Well one thing is quite clear in feminist America today. If she marries you when you’re quite affluent or she expects you soon will be, with your professional or business etc. thing going, and you become poor and look to have poor prospects, she’s very very likely to divorce you in America today. While reverse the genders and that isn’t true at all.
As for the question as written, I’d say if she does and she’s hot, regardless of how she feels when she marries you, if after four or five years you still have no prospects the chances of her not divorcing you approach nil. Note I’m talking about prospects to make enough to live a quite economically comfortable life together. Though that to won’t be enough for a whole lot of hot girls who do make that initial marriage choice.
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Furthermore………………..
Im also beginning to think that all the stacked divorce laws are buttressed more by women hoping to keep alphas stuck with them despite their desire to fuck other women more than to entrap beta providers, which is more of a secondary benefit.
We aspire to our dreams first, and your insurance later.
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@Doug1:
“It’s fairly clear that the first bit means she wants the alpha to relinquish some of that alphaness to be more under her spell. The second bit means SHE will puppeteer HIM. There’s a switch of implied actors there I guess was my confusion.”
You have to give them what they want sometimes and not at others. Never be predictable and if you do things you love within reason, don’t give them up. Flirt with other women and don’t ever let her think you can’t easily find another high quality woman. Give them good orgasms. I don’t care what others say, it has worked wonders for me. Give a woman a heaven parting big O like the one Nick Nolte gave Bette Midler in Down and Out in Beverly Hills and she will follow you around like a dog and day dream of you when you’re away. You will be in control.
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z–
That’s EXACTLY how and why Anglosphere divorce law almost always “lead” by US feminists developed as it did under first and second wave feminism.
The first stage was to make male fault divorce far easier for women to obtain, and for the first time for this automatically take the children with them and child support then much lower w/ long term alimony, for something other than male economic abandonment or the most severe regular beatings for no just cause like her cheating (none of this bs 2nd wave feminist “abuse” crap). So the first stage was she got it too for male adultery mostly, any amount of it if she could approve it in first wave feminism. This was most of all driven by the desire of elite women to keep successful alpha men from abandoning them emotionally or sexually, or straying at all either.
Yes indeed. You’re right.
Though it did have the secondary advantage of making it much easier for women to divorce men they were tired of, often betas if they had money under these new lifetime alimony rules, since by completely withholding sex and nagging him enough, women could get most men esp. w/the attitudes prevalent before the 2nd wave feminist attacks on masculinity in the entertainment media started biting, to “cheat” on them. (Men had basically always considered it as their right to get outside sex if their wife wasn’t giving it to them, before feminist emasculation and divorce theft really sank in.)
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Tyrone, you and I are on the same page. Orgasms are foundational to the relationship.
Beta and Alphas who dream otherwise are dreaming.
It’s the O that ties madona and whore together into a unit. It’s the O that ties the provider supplicant and devil may care cad together into a unit. It’s the uniter of opposites, the big O. Master the O and you can use the full powers of alpha, beta, whore, madona, all in the same sex session.
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Rollo–
You’re right though about never cosigning anything w/a gf, whether she’s live in or not. Not a lease, not a car and car loan, not a house, no a credit card, nothing. Everything should be in your separate names. She is an independent woman, right?
Anything you cosign you’re responsible for. As well it will be much harder to untangle. She’ll maybe be able to force you to pay her legal costs to untangle if it comes to that and you make much more. Not if you don’t cosign.
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today all of society is ruled by the female orgasm.
lzozlzlzlzlzlzllz!!
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Then greatlozlforlozl, it follows that he who rules women’s orgasms rules all of society.
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Gotta hand it to Xsplat, that was a pretty good comeback.
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You mean, cumback.
But yeah.
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“A woman who has put you in limbo does not love you with abandon. She instead loves you like most women do; with an eye toward the pragmatic. She is attempting to manipulate you, consciously or not, to reach her own ends. A man has two noble goals in life — the pursuit of sexual pleasure, and the winning of a woman’s heart in toto. A man has not lived until a woman has loved him without proviso.”
How then, does a man find such a woman? It seems to be that 90% of women are unworthy of marriage, and 95% are incapable of such love. Is it possible to induce this affection, or is it a matter of looking around until luck prevails?
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Tyrone–
Yuup.
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“Relationship limbo is a dangerous place to be for men. It can drive the male mind crazy with thoughts of abandonment, or worse. ”
This is probably where guys slip into stalker mode….
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“xsplat
Then greatlozlforlozl, it follows that he who rules women’s orgasms rules all of society.”
correctumondo !!!
that is why
barrack oboma is president
oprah is vice president
ben benranke, who created more debt than any man ever (like a woman with a credit card that her husband must pay just like men must work to pay off bernanke’s debts) is man of the year.
lzozlzlzllz!
finally some of you sare starting to catch on. lzozlzlzlzlozlzozlzozlzozzlzlz
it finally feels like i am not wasting my time here lzozlzlz
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Every relationship has a natural life cycle. Good stuff.
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On a related note.
http://www.the-spearhead.com/2010/04/13/alpha-dreams-and-beta-genes-male-sexual-entitlement/
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xsplat is right, but men will work hard to prevent other men from wielding this power. Mesmer, a charismatic alpha male in pre-revolutionary France, once Queen Marie Antoinette got too interested in his treatment, was investigated and eventually discredited by Lavoisier and Ben Franklin (an alpha if ever there was one). Rasputin, a mega-alpha in pre-revolutionary Russia, had a similar ability to send the wives of the nobility into orgasmic fits, and when Czarina Alexandra got too interested in him his male enemies knew that the Czar would not object to their removing him from the scene.
In modern America, a man who knows the secrets of the big O can achieve a great deal of *cultural* power especially if he has something to interest men as well as women (Hefner, Sinatra). Bill Clinton’s game was a small factor in his being elected in the first place, but entirely responsible for his surviving impeachment (if the feminists had turned against him he would have been toast, but he made them his bitches). Though one could argue that this was not specifically about orgasms, since he didn’t actually send them into physical ecstasy like Mesmer and Rasputin did. To rule society via female orgasms as xsplat suggested might still be possible, though it would require someone with a combination of the best qualities of Justin Timberlake, Howard Stern, and Silvio Berlusconi.
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omg the dude who wrote that article “http://www.the-spearhead.com/2010/04/13/alpha-dreams-and-beta-genes-male-sexual-entitlement/” wrote it like he has the spear in the masthead up his ass.
zllzzozzlzlzlllzl!!
he is critizing men fro not settling with std-ridden cumbuckets waiting to rape your bank acocunts and take your kids and suck other men’s cocks on yur sime.
what a lozlzlzlzlzlzlzlzler!!
he also writes about whacking off which you can tell is is only experience with women. lzozlzl
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I think marriage is a better proposition in a foreign country with a foreign bride.
I’d never, ever marry an American citizen in the U.S. But a Brazilian in Brazil? With the right woman I’d seriously consider it.
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Roosh–
Unless you’re landing a richy and don’t think big book bucks are in your future, you’d still be much better of with a prenup according to what gil’s said.
But also from what he’s said, the real in the know action and game in Brazil if you were gonna be making big bucks there somehow, would be hiding your assets. And not just for real tycoons, but for professional type money too.
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think about it…
from the time they are getting their periord, women are told to seek orgasms and sexual pleasure and given condoms and lessons and things
they are not taught to
serve a family
serve a husband
serve children
serve faith
serve ideals
serve honor
they are taught to get a job serving the boss and the bottom line while seeking sexual pleasure and orgasmssmsmsmsmsms.
ergo american women are not marriageable as they have been highjacked and desouled by the fed to rape men for tehir assets.
lzozlzlzlzl
`
one look into the pages of cosmo would have let all you in on this olzlzlz.
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All–
Dave f Hawaii and Athol Kay on his blog about married game describe married game and how it’s enabled them to reclaim or retain respectively great sex in long marriages. But how rare is that?
Are there any alphas here, or really any men, who have been married more than six years w/or without kids, who still have really good and frequent sex with your wife? I’m talking like say and average of 2.5x a week, except when biz. travel, pref. yours, pulls you apart to lower your stats somewhat?
How frequent is it.
I count myself alpha and I’ve been married (just over 6 years before we seperated) and I’ve have several since and one before live together relationship including one now, but none of those lasted more than 3-4 years for various reasons, some circumstantial. (Live together much younger gf went off to law school after a period after college working in the big city and then living w/me, for example).
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marriage? hah peep this:
http://www.vibe.com/posts/nas-finally-has-pay-kelis-and-its-lot-money
The ruling came down today (April 12) when Nas appeared in L.A. County Superior Court. The exact amounts he owes to Kelis are $47,249.42 in child support and $40,454 in spousal support.
In addition, Nas has to pony up $10,000 in spousal support each month until his $299,015.50 debt to Kelis is paid off. The rapper is also responsible for 90% of Kelis’ legal fees, which total $155,787.28, as well as her $48,549.83 accounting bill.
Damn Nas, whatever happened to “I bag bitches up at John Jay” ?
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This post gave me zeeeeroooo tinglelings!
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Roissy writes, “A man has not lived until a woman has loved him without proviso.”
lozzllz!
yeah the last chick i had brought over her friend Jack Provisio who did her anal cavity while she blew me and so she loved me with provisio and then he left so i did her vagainal cum dumpster area with a condom on my cock and she loved me without provisio & now i have lived lozllzlllz.! i tweeted about it if you don’t beleieve me: twitter.com/lzozllzllzlzl
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@Tyrone and xsplat
This thread finally hit upon the real secret of a happy relationship. If you want to control a woman’s heart in toto, you control her orgasms and fulfill her every sexual desire, and more than a few of her fantasies. Your domination will be complete.
If you service her body like no man ever has or will again, you will haunt her every waking thought. The heart will follow the O. Everything will be forgiven – and quickly – if the very sight of you moistens her thighs. She’ll let you call the shots on the relationship status because she can’t bear the thought of losing you and all the pleasure that you bring.
GdI is an expert on this particular topic and the provider of a mighty VT … If only he were here. Sigh.
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It really is interesting how spring brings the subject of love to the fore. I guess the cliché is true.
It’s been on my mind as well, so it’s nice to see you getting to the heart of the matter, as usual, Roissy.
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When I was a young beta I stumbled into a bad marriage but with a woman much richer than me.
I left it wiser and no poorer.
When I read people’s post here I realize I missed the bullet of divorce-rape.
If you are young there are a lot of advantages to dating a rich woman. The downside scenarios of when it goes wrong are much, much lower.
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Even foreign brides one must be very careful. The fact you are an American citizen is most definitely one of her deciding factors.
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the longer you write, the longer (with regard to women) i’ll have a 10+ year head start on myself.
robert wright argues that the evolutionary arms race is:
men=liars
women=lie detectors
but i see your point; indeed, it is a two way street.
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Freya says, “If you service her body like no man ever has or will again, you will haunt her every waking thought.”
…until you screw up badly enough that every thought of that feels like a lie you told.
One very ugly truth about women is that we are masters of selective memory, along with moral acrobatics. Though for most of us, it is an expression of love or bonding, it is also at the same time a kind of means to an end. It is usually done with the hope that the feelings we’re expressing will be reciprocated.
Good sex is not carte blanche to behave like a pussy or an indeccisive flake. No matter how good you are sexually (yes, I’m talking to any psychologically beta-ized men out there who think your bean flicking is a shortcut to whatever) if you lack other crucial aspects of worthiness of earth level worship, you fail.
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Nicole,
Point taken about using superior sex as an excuse for slackness in other areas. However, if you both are deep in the sexual groove, the other strains of a romantic relationship suddenly don’t seem so bad.
I’m talking about the complete alpha package, which women want, but rarely get.
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Freya, the complete alpha package type of guy is, like the celebrity supermodel for men, someone they will likely never meet in their lifetime, and if they did they probably wouldn’t have a chance.
They are a small minority of men, and those who have the means use their abilities to acquire the wealth and status that will put them out of the reach of the vast majority of women.
When they do marry, they usually marry suitable trophies, unless their particular preferences include a kind of commonality and loyalty that is rare in the trophy set.
So, finding the complete alpha package is a dream that non 10’s who don’t come from money should probably file in the fantasy department along with unicorns and faeries.
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Nicole, I believe that alphas come in all shapes, sizes, attractiveness and income ranges. A guy with charisma and charm – the most interesting man in the room, who has the most gravitational pull – does not have to be the best looking, the most athletic or talented, or the one with the most money. Nice qualities, to be sure. Alphas are accomplished, no doubt, and are natural “winners,” but not always in expected ways.
This is no fantasy land. A man with natural alpha traits who is fabulous in the bedroom completes the package. It just takes some work on his part – don’t be so sexually complacent – which I believe is the message that some are trying to interject in all this talk of Game. Sexual performance matters a lot to both men and women. What’s so unrealistic about that?
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“So, finding the complete alpha package is a dream that non 10’s who don’t come from money should probably file in the fantasy department along with unicorns and faeries. ”
For somebody as ugly as you .. even contemplating an alpha is a waste of time .. take that ugly pic off and replace it with some other icon ..
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Freya, it’s unrealistic for the average woman to expect a guy like that to settle down with her.
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Unlearning, my bottom bitch is more alpha than you.
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I used adblock+ to block her icon.
Yeah. Browser addons are totally beta, but it was worth it.
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Thansus has the right approach. I don’t need every guy in the world to think I’m pretty.
I just need to not breed with punks. You’re fine as long as you’re not in my life.
I’m here for the non punks who don’t get into catfighting with females over dumb shit just because it struck a nerve.
The average woman should be going for the average guy, not wasting her life in pursuit of an illusion or guys who are going to leave her crying about what she could have done aside of be a different woman.
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@Freya, Nicole,
Not so much as realistic as it is imaginary. I’ve seen women get the gina tingles for men that they mistakenly thought were alpha material. This is most common amongst the young, however. Young woman falls for rugby star in her early 20’s only to find out after her baby is born that he doesn’t have a checking account. Alpha body/Omega brains. A woman has to check her gina tingles.
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Doug1,
You asked about “married game and how it’s enabled them to reclaim or retain respectively great sex in long marriages. But how rare is that?…Are there any alphas here, or really any men, who have been married more than six years w/or without kids, who still have really good and frequent sex with your wife? I’m talking like say and average of 2.5x a week, except when biz. travel, pref. yours, pulls you apart to lower your stats somewhat?”
I’m 48 and have been married almost 28 years (4 kids). My wife and I average more than 1x a day (almost every night and some days as well). This is a big change from a few years ago, we have basically gone from one extreme to the other. There was never any cheating or major conflict, just lots of other things filling up our lives, gradual hormonal declines, some depression/anxiety problems for her, so we would go months at a time without sex.
But as the temptations to stray (for me) became more and more apparent (I made no attempt to hide the fact that other women caught my attention easily), she figured out that not being in the mood wasn’t a good reason, and discovered that the more we did, the better it got. I’d always made it clear I found her as attractive as ever, but I began to try much harder before taking no for an answer, as well as dragging her into bed at random times, and being willing both to be more innovative (because some women will never propose something new themselves no matter how game they are if you try it) and more selfish (something betas have a hard time getting — trying to think only about what will make her feel good dead-ends while letting her see how much you are into it pulls her along). I’m sure our lovemaking is still very boring by Roissy’s standards but it’s better than it’s ever been for us before. (It helps that we’ve taken care of ourselves and both look very good for our age.)
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unlearning and Thansus,
You don’t get it. Nicole is not ugly, she’s a 4, which falls in the range “can get used to and learn to like if she has an attractive personality”. I’ve flirted with and experienced strong attraction to lots of women with looks comparable to hers, once I’ve gotten to know and like them for some other reason than initial spark of lust. (Looks-wise I’m normally a 7, 8 if I make an effort.)
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Polymath, my placement on the general scale isn’t really that relevant for the purpose of their wanting to see my photo or not. If they find me utterly hideous, then that’s their right. It doesn’t really matter much to my actual life.
Being somewhere in the middle or lower middle range does however, give me the right to say that women in my or a similar position should not be expecting miracles to come out of the mainstream. At the moment, with images of hot chicks being mass broadcast everywhere, an average or below looking woman should not expect stunning levels of sexual performance or alpha behavior from our men unless they are among the small, small percentage of low social dependents.
We should not expect to be appreciated that much. We should in many cases, expect to be resented to some degree for not measuring up.
If I had understood this, I’d still be married to my first husband, or maybe even to the guy I had a crush on when I was 17. I’d have forced the issue by bringing it to my dad to tell the guy personally that he didn’t have a problem with an older man courting his daughter.
People don’t tell girls about the reality of their current situation, and don’t give them useful information on how to properly navigate a world gone mad. We’re supposed to expect guys to put in 100% when they’re being told that we (most women) are only worth, well, worthless.
If a girl who is somewhere in the average range manages to find a guy who appreciates her, and is alpha enough to handle his side of the relationship, she’s fortunate. He should not be compared to other guys (because he’s already in the freak-in-a-good-way category), and “sexual performance” should be realistic.
Besides, at some point in life, when you’re talking about a long term commitment, sex with that guy may be taken out of the picture. What then?
A woman shouldn’t have to be a 10 to be considered a worthy partner, and a guy shouldn’t have to be Mr. Orgasmadom either. People need to come back down to earth.
Until they do though, women shouldn’t expect much from men except to be men…and human males are very vulnerable to their culture.
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Nicole, who said anything about “settling down”? I was talking about settling for mediocre sex. I suppose your average woman can settle for the average man and keep having average sex. Won’t know the diff then, will they?
Oh, unless the woman meets an alpha who really knows what he’s doing in the bedroom. That’s where the queue forms with all the women – past and present – who want to be with him. That’s the case where a woman who’s just average will not stand a chance and is just dreaming. You have to have something pretty special to offer a man like that long term.
It sounds like men are consistently meeting the low, non-stunning bar of sexual expectations you set for them.
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Ahhhh…the great orgasm myth….
Mind blowing sex is only the icing on the cake for a woman. It’s not what is going to keep her under your spell for all of eternity.
When you have a chick you are banging bragging to a room full of mutual friends how good you are in bed, just to turn around and leave you to marry a beta provider a month later you will understand exactly what I’m saying.
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At that point, dump her and move on. She’ll chase seeking your approval. If not, who cares.
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Freya, this is only half personal for me. I look average, but I’m a freak in a few ways.
What I demand is one thing, but what I expect is another. I stick with other freaks, and this means that I risk doing without. I am willing to play the odds because I don’t mind a challenge.
Most women are not me though, and it would be irresponsible for me to tell women in general that they should all look for the same thing I have or demand what I demand.
There are very few guys out there who are so butched against the pervading culture that they can value an average or below average looking woman as much as a beautiful or media determined beautiful woman. There are very few men who would pass up a night with a disease ridden harpy 9 for a life with a virgin 5 who would make them oral sex and pancakes for breakfast.
The guy with the 5 will feel as if he is settling, especially as he gets older. That’s just how life is.
Previous generations valued femininity, loyalty, and nurturing in a real way. The current generation values hotness above all. Guys who can’t get the hotness will often take what they can get, but they feel cheated.
You can even tell that from the overcompensating tone of men who try to extrapolate fifty reasons other than an overblown sense of entitlement, for the current behavior of both men and women in relationships today.
So a girl should not realistically expect a guy to be thrilled to be settling with a 5 or less, not sexually and not commitment wise. He’s not going to pull it out for a 5 the way he will for a 10.
5’s and other women in the average range who want to wait for the Hollywood dream of amazing monogamous sex are dreaming.
Normally, the choice isn’t great sex with an alpha or bad sex with a beta. It’s passably tolerable sex with an alpha or pretty good sex with a beta (who is alpha enough when the lights go out). She should, for sexual pleasure purposes and life partner purposes, pick the guy who needs her more, instead of the guy who doesn’t.
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“Ahhhh…the great orgasm myth….”
Indeed, sex isn’t nearly as valuable to women as it is to men .. the clever women pretend to enjoy it to ensnare a guy ..
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@ Nicole:
“If a girl who is somewhere in the average range manages to find a guy who appreciates her, and is alpha enough to handle his side of the relationship, she’s fortunate. He should not be compared to other guys (because he’s already in the freak-in-a-good-way category), and “sexual performance” should be realistic.”
I think sexual performance is a learned skill and has little if anything to do with looks. It is a learned performance especialy for men. Face it, Alphas can often screw better because they get more practice. I shot off in about three seconds my very fist time. I last as long as I need to now. I had to learn to get that way. However, as with beautiful women who show no effort, Alpha males often act extremely selfish in bed. A woman who is willing to see sex as a mutual journey of exploration will find her man becomes a great lover if she is willing to talk and help him along and view him as a partner and not a sexual mentor. Sadly, it seems to be too hard for the majority and contributes to much of the relationship dissatisfaction women often feel.
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Unlearning, this is part of the combination feminist new order and conservative pedestalization.
The truth is as old as the Kama Sutra. There are two kinds of women: hoes and wives.
Wifely women enjoy sex very much. Hoes don’t like sex, or at least not that much.
For wifies, sex is an expression of love. They enjoy expressing their love, and will seek just about any opportunity to do so. Love and its associated expressions are priceless.
For hoes, sex is a means to an end. It is reduced to a commodity because it can be.
This is not to say that a hoe can’t love. It’s just that sex is not as important to them as money. A hoe who loves you will give you gifts. A wifey who loves you will give you sex. A hoe who doesn’t love you will give you sex to get gifts. Getting your love is, for a hoe, a means of getting gifts.
Keeping men in the dark about these things has been a way for women to arrange hierarchy among themselves. Some of the best hoes in the world are technically someone’s wife.
However, men are supposed to think that a woman who has sex with them without being married is a hoe. It’s supposed to be considered whore-like for a woman to lose control with you, and her social value is supposed to be reduced.
All the while, the real whores are keeping chaste when it doesn’t profit them to do otherwise, because it’s easy for a frigid woman to keep her legs closed.
Even better, class matters in this. Women in the upper classes stay chaste and behave as if their pussy is more valuable than that available from the lower classes. This way, guys shag women in the lower classes with impunity, but still need to pay to get the upper class pussy in order to get social validation.
This probably didn’t help anyone to view women as less evil, but oh well.
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@ The Rational Male
“Ahhhh…the great orgasm myth….
Mind blowing sex is only the icing on the cake for a woman. It’s not what is going to keep her under your spell for all of eternity.
When you have a chick you are banging bragging to a room full of mutual friends how good you are in bed, just to turn around and leave you to marry a beta provider a month later you will understand exactly what I’m saying.”
I have women who remember me fondly from over 20 years ago. I’ve had several try to rekindle our relationship. I’ve got an ex who still calls me every day and dreams of me returning to her.
My guess is your girl was faking and lying to you and her friends about it, or you were doing something else wrong and didn’t see it. Maybe she figured he would please her parents, buy her the big brick colonial in Clifton, or want to get married and produce children and she could always find a guy who rang her bell. She would have definitely left sooner without the good sex.
However, the big O I talk about can’t really be faked. It involves massive involuntary body spasms and should have her twitching and trembling in ecstasy for about five minutes or more afterwards.
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Tyrone, until relatively recently in history, most men had access to prostitutes or women in whatever was the slave class to practice on before they got married.
Prostitutes weren’t street cornerish for the most part back then, and slaves were compelled to treat their masters with deference. Slavery shagging was bad because a slave couldn’t tell you how you were doing. A slave was however, a human being.
There are hadiths in Islam wherein men asked Muhammad questions about sexually pleasing a slave girl. From that, I gather that owning slaves did not necessarily make a man a sociopathic monster oblivious and uncaring of a woman’s pleasure.
So today, if the whole U.S. was Nevada, there probably wouldn’t be a guy who was totally inexperienced by the time he got married, unless he wanted to be. I don’t know for certain, but I suspect that part of the marrying type of man’s development is compatible with the marrying type of woman’s development.
They either grow up together or the guy would tend to be older and more experienced before he finds and begins to court the girl who is a stranger to him at the time. I don’t think a guy who is on the long term track is any less desperately desiring to express his sexuality than women of similar orientation. So if he needs to take some years to gain resources, then in that time it may be that it’s beneficial to him to have (consciously) casual partners to tide him over.
I don’t know. It’s just a theory.
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Yeah! Thank you!!!!!!!!!!1
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It’s a necessary tool in the toolset used to create and maintain the machinery of devotion.
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Never learns
Blah ha ha ha.
Oh, poor you.
It’s “men” like you who make my job so easy.
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Nicole: Who the fuck made you the expert on everything? If I wanted to hear a woman’s point of view, I would like her to be a hot woman so I can learn some useful information. I don’t give a flying fuck what some ugly, old, woman says about everything. Dammit. It is so fucking annoying trying to read the comments when your ugly face and essay length responses clog up the fucking comments. Shit. Shut the fuck up. Thank you from everyone.
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@ Nicole:
Tyrone, until relatively recently in history, most men had access to prostitutes or women in whatever was the slave class to practice on before they got married.
Prostitutes weren’t street cornerish for the most part back then, and slaves were compelled to treat their masters with deference. Slavery shagging was bad because a slave couldn’t tell you how you were doing. A slave was however, a human being.
There are hadiths in Islam wherein men asked Muhammad questions about sexually pleasing a slave girl. From that, I gather that owning slaves did not necessarily make a man a sociopathic monster oblivious and uncaring of a woman’s pleasure.
So today, if the whole U.S. was Nevada, there probably wouldn’t be a guy who was totally inexperienced by the time he got married, unless he wanted to be. I don’t know for certain, but I suspect that part of the marrying type of man’s development is compatible with the marrying type of woman’s development.
They either grow up together or the guy would tend to be older and more experienced before he finds and begins to court the girl who is a stranger to him at the time. I don’t think a guy who is on the long term track is any less desperately desiring to express his sexuality than women of similar orientation. So if he needs to take some years to gain resources, then in that time it may be that it’s beneficial to him to have (consciously) casual partners to tide him over.
I don’t know. It’s just a theory.
However, slave owners were always a minority of people in every society where it has existed. That might be true for the wealthy classes, but not for the majority of the free born. Most free people were simply peasants who had no option but to marry early and maximize the birthrate in order to survive. They didn’t have any extra money for visiting brothels either. Cash was not very common for most people to even have. You also used to need to have 6 to 10 children to be sure that two would survive to adulthood and beget children. 75% died in the first two years of life. In the societies you describe, it was also common for men to love slaves and keep them as concubines. I place the blame on female passivity and expectations for the man to take the lead in sex. Like many things in the dating game, it can be a counter productive strategy.
Tom:
Take a chill pill and stop insulting people who haven’t been assholes.
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:: whistles _John Jacob Jingleheimer Schmidt_ ::
Don’t worry your little self about me, “Tom”. I’m only here because my lover is sick, and I’m bored.
Believe me, when I have dick again, you will see me here only rarely because I’ve learned what I needed to here, and I’m putting it into practice.
You might wanna go back and do some reading up about what bitter bitches can expect out of life.
It shouldn’t upset you that a 40 year old woman doesn’t give enough of a shit about kids’ angst to change her avatar or stop a conversation with other people.
Build a bridge and get over it, dewd.
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“the clever women pretend to enjoy it to ensnare a guy ..”
I’m pretty sure that girls enjoy sex MORE than guys, especially when Dom/Sub roles get played out properly.
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Girls enjoy it like we do but have a higher activation enegy threshold than we do, wherein they need more up-front seduction, foreplay, and the guys’ alphatude to get their nuclear reactors running.
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My girl’s pretty good at pretending, anyway, especially when her pussy contracts around me and she squirts, and then comes back for more within an hour because she can’t get enough, or when she bites at me and gets a look in her eyes that’s almost animalistic. That’s some damn good acting. Then there’s the fact that when she got divorced from her ex, she had to go before a judge and convince the judge that she didn’t want child support and why. She also encouraged/made her daughter to spend an equal amount of time with the father even though the decree read otherwise. She also has such a strong devotion to her financial commitments that she will go for weeks on rice and beans to meet them. But hey, lozzly will come in here any minute and tell me that she’s a slave of the fed and I’m a wow-playing beta, and Roissy will tell me I shouldn’t marry her even though I live in Texas, which only hands out alimony for a short time in extreme cases. Oh, but she does have one flaw in that she left her ex after making a commitment to him. But you know why she left? Because he was being too much of an “alpha” asshole, that’s why. But yeah, other than that this blog is genius.
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hey schmoe i think it’s awesome that she spread her legs for an alpha and took his sperm and now you the beta have to help out with the kids and buy them things for her sloppy seconds pussy which was streched by bboth the cock and the kid of the alpha who came (cummed) before you lzozlzlzllzlzlzlzl
sperm from the alpha, money from the beta,
if you criticize it you’re a fed hata.
so says schmoe.
lozlzlzlz
no wonder you h8 me dude.
lzozlllzlzlzlzlzl!
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p.s. isn’t it fun looking into the face of the alpha every time you see the kid who you are paying 4?
lzozlzlzlz
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@ Schmoe
Are you fucking kidding me?? You’re still paying for another man’s seed.
I’ll repeat: YOU ARE STILL PAYING FOR ANOTHER MAN’S SEED.
A man’s resources are for him and his own—not another man’s spawn.
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There’s been a lot of guys qualifying their wives/girlfriends to other dudes in this thread. Beta.
Aa an example how to do it right, other than not bringing your woman up in the first place with any degree of specificity, is to do like commenter Markku had once done. Some smartass asked him “what’s your wife look like,” and he replied with “she looks normal.”
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“A man has not lived until a woman has loved him without proviso.”
-my favorite line. Indeed. All women should love like this if the man is worthy and all men should be loved like this, at least once in life.
I have been in love deeply twice. I have lusted, cared for and been friends with men. I am a huge romantic and believe love to be the highest high in the human experience, but I must say after 15 years of expereince, love can and does fade. Continued respect for each other is key. Continued desire is more difficult to master. If she asks for marriage after only a year of dating then she had an agenda before she even met you. Romance would be living together for years and then deciding to quietly go away and do the paperwork while still in love. If she loves you, she should not need you to marry her. A man will take good care of women who loves him good. I would know, I lived it.
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“A man has not lived until a woman has loved him without proviso.”
What about your mother? :p
A man hasn’t lived until he worked for what he has.
Love being a euphemism that exists for irrational feelings between two persons, it’s hard to find women who have such amount of overwhelming femininity in them that could lead to a love without any clauses.
Otherwise, the hard work goes into generating such amount of femininity towards you into the woman that you love.
I don’t know how many men can reconcile it with using game at the same time.
“A man has two noble goals in life — the pursuit of sexual pleasure, and the winning of a woman’s heart in toto.”
Noble indeed.Good time reading you Roissy.
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i jus wanna stick up for my wife even tho she has two kids by two diff men she’s really very nice and her only flaw is that sometimes she eats rice and beans only because she doesn’t want child support from the alphas who sired the kids i pay for now. lozlzlzlzlzlzlzlz! but she eats rice and beans and that is good because it saves money and i slinking under the sheets and smelling her bean fartzztztztz fart farts lzozlzlzlzlzlzzlzlzllzlz!! coming out from where the alphas used to put tehir cocks like charlotte allen’s fav. alpha tucker max but where i am too beta to put mine as buttsex is the noeocn’s def. of alpha manhood. lzozlzlzllzlzlzlz
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Polymath–
Yeah absolutely true and a great insight / way of putting it.
Whole comment was real good and exactly what I was looking to find, that kind of detail, and some ideas as to why it declined and how you were able to revive it.
I absolutely agree that married women should feel a duty to their husbands to at least try sexing them on the regular, start it, even when they aren’t feeling like it – no horomonally based push to have sex at the time. I’m recalling this female Australian writer and I think couples counselor, anyway that’s what her book was about, who did this radio short talk on the subject there, repurblished on the web, and then took questions. He point was that women who have lost interest in sex but still care for their husbands usually get into it if when and if they just start doing it. Start. Then let him try to get you into it, she counseled. Some of her listeners even said they though it skirted awfully close to condoning marital rape (such are the feminist memes).
(As an aside I don’t believe there is any such thing as marital rape, though there is marital assault if the husband does truly “brutally” rape his wife. that’s plenty. Abolish marital rape. Mostly for the symbolism. To remind women that sexing their husbands has always been a traditional marital duty in all cultures and should become so again in this feminist one.)
Anyway, you’re a valuable voice here and I hope you stick around.
I hope other guys married for six or more years answer the same question that Polymath does above.
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@anoukange,
this is all well and good, but if there are children involved it can become problematic. However, you are quite correct, if a couple do not want children then yes, marriage makes no sense at all. Problem is, most women want children, and inevitably, marriage.
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Rational Male says:
“Ahhhh…the great orgasm myth….
Mind blowing sex is only the icing on the cake for a woman. It’s not what is going to keep her under your spell for all of eternity.
When you have a chick you are banging bragging to a room full of mutual friends how good you are in bed, just to turn around and leave you to marry a beta provider a month later you will understand exactly what I’m saying.”
Xsplat responds,
“Blah ha ha ha.
Oh, poor you.
It’s “men” like you who make my job so easy.”
Sounds like you have some issues you need to resolve there, Xsplat. I suspect it is because the two dollar whores you are banging don’t actually like you very much.
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Since this post of Roissy’s is about relationship cycles, or the front end of them, I’m going to continue my earlier talking on this thread about my no longer a real young guy, longer cycle, living with some special girls type cycle, with screwing sluts and seducing semi good girls inbetween.
Back to living together instead of marriage, marriage only w/the right kind of prenup, and why it’s vastly better to talk about requiring a prenup if you really are gonna marry her, and the basic idea of what will be in it, if you’re at the time living together and she’s trying to turn that into marriage. If you want kids, you might just consider it.
After perhaps a few goes at this relationship and living together cycle with different women after it cools down with one and/or she really doesn’t seem right as a life partner or you just aren’t ready to have kids and all that yet, with a period of wide dating between relationships before you find someone else you love and want to live with perhaps, you may well and most men will hope they do find someone permanent, and to have kids together with. In the old days that did mean marrying but then in those days it was marriage 1.0, which was a much fairer deal for men. Today with marriage and divorce 2.0, living together in a committed relationship raising kids (w/a cohab agreement certainly w/kids), Euro higher SES style, is clearly the way for men to go if they want to settle down and produce progeny. There’s much more reason to go that way in America than Europe esp. outside of Britain, we’re just more traditional about marriage still, but that’s changing fast for men. Because broadly and simply speaking, Europe provides for single or divorced women w/kids through generous taxpayer supported and government paid social benefits supplementing small child support if she’s divorced him, rather than huge child support=alimony, plus half his net wealth, plus often alimony as in feminist misandrous America today.
If she still says she badly wants to get married, feels she needs to, even wants the ceremony “for her family”, it will kill her to leave you, but she feels she has to be married to have kids, then offer her marriage w/a private prenup that mimics the effect of living together and having kids, if she ever does leave you. (She’ll be way less able to kick you out of your house that you’ve mostly or entirely paid for, and shouldn’t be allowed to in the prenup. What you decide in the event depending on her behavior and the kids interest and how bonded w/them you are which will likely be closely related to how old they were when/if she wants to abandon the marriage to go chase new cock is another matter.)
So you’ve convinced her there should be a prenup if she’s gonna get you to agree to what you don’t want to, change from living together to being married. But is there any wiggle room for her, from the “just like living together” basic principle I’ve announced?
Ok here’s the concession I’m willing to make to women on the prenup, after negotiating. It addresses the greatest fear that women have when having children w/a man w/out marriage, or in marrying w/a prenup that mimics that. What if you leave her for no compelling reason, but for a hot young trophy wife when she’s older w/ two kids. Yeah ok child support, but she’ll have stayed home w/ the kids for a few years she thinks or wants, and anyway will work less, maybe part time, certainly not brutal hours, when her kids are young. It’s one thing to lose any claim on her man’s net savings and retirement money if she abandons the marriage, but what if he does? So I’ll give her the feminist half of my net wealth in this one case only, but she pays any lawyer she wants to hire. I won’t if she leaves me for supposed cause, other than my abandonment of her.
The vast majority of feminist abuse is bullshite, it’s trivial, and not remotely enough so that she should be able to take half my money from me if she wants to leave me. She can leave me w/out my money for that kind of thing, which is faked and lied about all the time today, ask divorce lawyers, by women in divorces. Won’t marry w/that hanging over me.
Nor in my case, though many men and the great majority of betas won’t insist on this, would she be entitled in a prenup I’d sign to get half of my money for my trivial infidelity. That is infidelity unaccompanied by my abandoning her, emotionally or sexually (or economically as well), or by my intentionally or recklessly publicly humiliating her. If she’s the one that hasn’t wanted sex for some while, or only infrequently, after having kids and keeping the weight, well then she doesn’t get to pin that on me. If she’s the one or her girlfriends are that make my discreet occasional just sex well into marriage stepping out a scandal and a humilitation, well that doesn’t count against me in the prenup either. Like that.
No alimony under any circumstances ever period in the prenup, of course. She should plan her work life during marriage w/our prenup accordingly. Her choices, fully informed. No she can’t count on living as richly w/out me as she did with me, keeping me happy and not abandoning me both. Of course not. Just as she isn’t enforcably promising to want to give me great sex until she drops dead, or to stay young and beautiful or as much those things as is womanly possible.
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You’re a bunch of assholes who assume way too much. I have my own kids, I don’t pay anything to her grown kid, nor do I pay anything to her, she has her own job and I have mine. The upside of that is she’s done with that ticking timebomb that all your young single bitches still have. If I choose to marry in Texas, everything I own is my own by default without prenup, that’s Texas law. Everything I inherit or get gifted during a marriage is mine by default without prenup, that’s Texas law. If the rest of you fucks are living in states that take away your shit, move. Only that which is earned while together is community property. Why would I get married, then, if I’ve already had kids and she’s had hers? Well, what does it say to a woman that I will not marry her but I married that harpie shrew mother of my kids? Anyway, she’s not pressuring me to get married; we’re just dating and happily fucking every chance we get. If you don’t like it, perhaps you are jealous.
p.s., if you don’t have a gold stash you’re a fool. FRN’s are just paper and have been wildly inflated. It’s only a matter of time before those chickens come home to roost. None of that makes living like barabbas worthwhile. It’s much better to live and love with abandon.
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“p.s., if you don’t have a gold stash you’re a fool. FRN’s are just paper and have been wildly inflated. It’s only a matter of time before those chickens come home to roost. None of that makes living like barabbas worthwhile. It’s much better to live and love with abandon.”
dude so you don’t trust ben bernanake eitehr lzozllzlzlzlz
you write, “It’s much better to live and love with abandon.”
yeah that’s what the alpha said before he pumped her and dumped her and tossed her and his kid to you. lzozlzllzlzllzlzlzlzlzlzllz zlzozlzlzlzlzlzllzlzlzlzllzzlzlzllzlz
so does the kid have the alpha mannerisms? i bet they do and don’t take shit from you but only your ca$$$$$hola
lozlzllzl
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Jacko, it’s obvious that the best part of your brain ran down your mommas ass crack and ended up as a brown stain on the mattress.
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I vote for “under a sexual spell” is more than just the icing on the cake please.
I find it to be a massively important part if any romantic connection. See: Diane Lane in the Adrian Lyne film “Unfaithful”. I know its Hollywood, but her character’s reaction in the train scene is exactly what women can go through after being shagged right. She should be blushing for you, it is her mind connecting to your touch. Here’s the thing, any guy can be good in bed, regardless of looks or lack there of, so it is potent I believe. Good in bed trumps stalemate in bed, but I admit strong sexual connection trumps both.
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anoukange
You both know and speak the truth about women’s deep sexual attraction and response dynamics. You’ve obviously had some intense relationships. Brava.
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Schmoe–
It’s still not right and wasn’t the law 40 years ago that she should get have of the net wealth you earn while married to her if she leaves you for no good reason, in addition to enjoying your lifestyle while she’s with you. And that’s what will happen in Texas.
As well it’s not right that she should get half your net wealth the you earn while married to her if that’s a true fortune regardless of why there’s a split, and that too wasn’t true 40 years in this country or before 2000 in Britain, following America (to considerable rich male outrage there, and a strong push now to honor prenups there).
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@Barbara ann,
first of all I don’t hate you, I’m trying to help you correct your faulty thinking. Why would I do that if I hated you? But you’ll have to start with your faulty reading comprehension, because I already said I’m not paying jack shit to anybody else’s spawn. How much of a pussy do you think I am, that if you keep repeating the same incorrect bullshit, that eventually I’ll accept your frame like all the other pussy assholes here have, and start listening to your point of view.
Everyone else here is afraid to speak out against the idea of alpha, because they all think Roissy is right. It makes me laugh, because by their own newly accepted frame they are toeing the party line and therefore beta. Who gives a crap? I’m beta-gamma-delta-alpha-bravo-foxtrot-hotel-xi-phi. I don’t care about your labels, and I refuse to accept your frame or that of Roissy. The question is are you happy?
Most of the people here, I’ll bet, are resentful of women because they never get laid. Me, I got laid plenty, 2-3 times a week for 20 years, but where did it get me? It was meaningless sex. After divorce, I was well aware that I could go chasing and getting 20-something skirt and have plenty more meaningless sex. What is the point of that? I want sex with meaning. Not everyone is wired exactly the same. After all, your “perfect approaches” only work with some women, not all, right? So who are those other women, and what turns them on?
Further, I for one am not turned on by new fresh pussy. You can say I’m in denial because I can’t get it but a) that’s not true, I’ve had many such opportunities and b) I have numerous data points where my cock begs to differ with the idea that all men like new pussy. I don’t get my most mind-blowing sex until I’ve had it a while.
I also don’t put the highest premium on looks. An 8 with brains beats a stupid 10 any day in my book. Again I have my own cock to back up what I’m saying, it’s not that I haven’t had hot stupid pussy or that I’ve somehow “unlearned” my natural attraction to it. So Roissy’s theories aren’t the end-all be-all of the entire species. There is far more complexity in evolution and earth than dreamed of in your philosophy.
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What is noteworthy about ‘Unfaithful’ is that she cheats on her beta providing husband.
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Schmoe has a point. If I were to get divorced tomorrow I would never in a million years expect another man to support me or my children. They already have a father who has a good job and I am certainly capable of working. It wouldn’t be your responsibility.
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Doug,
Are you really wealthy?
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Jacko-
I knew that was going to come up if I referenced that film. I wanted to pull from the way Lyne illustrated the affect her lover had on her. But yes, she did cheat on her beta husband. Of course he pulled a more than alpha (crazy) move and murdered the guy. Jesus. Another Lyne film to refer to is 9 1/2 Weeks. No cheating there, but same affect.
Doug-
er…um…yes? 🙂
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Schmoe says, “Everyone else here is afraid to speak out against the idea of alpha, because they all think Roissy is right.”
No we don’t all think Roissy is right about alpha-ness. Some of us disagree with him on many points. We’re just discussing things and sharing our perspectives while mostly respecting those that are at least well thought out and based on some semblance of reality.
So we’ve just gotten to a point where we don’t always have the same arguments over and over. Some things people just have to agree to disagree on.
Nature always wins, no matter what any of us says anyway.
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Funny, the women are responding as if I was calling them out, when in fact they are the most likely to disagree with Roissy and others and don’t feel they have to keep some kind of “alpha cred” with everyone around here. It’s the wannabe “real men” that I was talking to, those who are afraid to speak the truth about their own weaknesses because they are afraid of what other men might think or say about them. How much of a pussy are you, man, that you’ll even let other men dominate you? (It’s one thing to let women dominate you, at least they have a pussy). Well you’re stuck now, aren’t you, because if you agree with barbara and Roissy you are their bitch, and if you disagree with them you’re mine! Hahahah!
@Laura,
from your response here, and from previous ones, I can see that you take responsibility for your own emotions, aren’t afraid of the truth, and also take the idea of personal responsibility seriously. I suspect you also wouldn’t think of cheating on someone to whom you were no longer attracted (although you might divorce him if it lasted long enough). You are the illustration of my point, that there are quality women in the world, and I want you to know that there is a very small subset of men who are looking actively for that (not me, mind you, I’ve got women lined up if the current situation doesn’t work out). The cool thing about “game” is that it can be learned by anyone, even those quality real men. So thinking out loud here, there are aspects of game, such as sexual dominance, that can and should be learned, and maybe if you run into a beta pussy, rather than cheat on him, maybe clue him in. Don’t try to teach him yourself, but point him here or elsewhere. Maybe I’ll pull a barabas and start my own blog.
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Tyrone,
This might be true were it not for the fact that my reputation for being “good in bed” has spread through mostly all of my social circles to the point where I have had several girls I had never slept with before coming up to me telling me that they “heard about me” through the grapevine.
Women LIKE sex for the bonding aspect. It doesn’t matter if you are a sexual god or just “okay”, in their mid it triggers the same emotional response. You don’t have to be a porn star in bed for the chick to want to cuddle afterward. Guys on the other hand LOVE sex for the sake of the act itself. The bonding is secondary, and sometime virtually non-existent.
I suspect that you are the one who is mistaking your sexual prowess for other traits you posses that are truly responsible for compelling these women contacting you 20 years later.
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Tyrone,
This might be true were it not for the fact that my reputation for being “good in bed” has spread through mostly all of my social circles to the point where I have had several girls I had never slept with before coming up to me telling me that they “heard about me” through the grapevine.
Women LIKE sex for the bonding aspect. It doesn’t matter if you are a sexual god or just “okay”, in their mid it triggers the same emotional response. You don’t have to be a porn star in bed for the chick to want to cuddle afterward. Guys on the other hand LOVE sex for the sake of the act itself. The bonding is secondary, and sometime virtually non-existent.
I suspect that you are the one who is mistaking your sexual prowess for other traits you posses that are truly responsible for compelling these women contacting you 20 years later.
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Schmoe–
Apropos of what Schmoe said about pointing a good man you care about but who could learn some more game to places on the web, see this I just wrote re: that:
http://roissy.wordpress.com/2010/04/14/opportunity-is-everywhere/#comment-165718
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Laura–
The right above to Schmoe was meant to be to you.
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“but her character’s reaction in the train scene is exactly what women can go through after being shagged right.”
well played Roosh. well played
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Methinks this whole plan must be reconfigured. This is all way too much work for a wet vagina. WTF, dude? Why go out of your way to attract girls with stupid lines? Just smack them in the face and tell them what to do. This is too fucking much, man.
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Luvsic-
You don’t know what the fuck you are talking about. Roosh knows very well he never left me feeling that way. We never shared a connect, ask him yourself, hence me thinking it was just friendship. You know nothing of the men who have left me haunted and blushing.
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Do you have sex with all your ‘friends’, anouk?
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Like a ho says, “Bad boys are for making babies, nice guys are for raising them!” Squeal like a pig, boy!
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@Doug1 –
Hey I saw that post. Thanks by the way. I think being in an LTR I might fit in better over there.
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“Do you have sex with all your ‘friends’, anouk?”
-no, but my lovers have all been my friends to some degree.
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@ Bucket (comment #53)
What led to the sexual revolution of the 60s and 70s was the spoiling and coddling of the Baby Boomer generation, who grew up thinking the world revolved around them and that they deserved whatever they wanted moment to moment. The “Greatest Generation” did the hard work and persevered through the Depression and World Wars. With the best intentions they wanted their children to avoid suffering, but unfortunately they went too far. America has been paying the price ever since with the destruction of our cultural traditions and political principles by the Most Selfish Generation, the Baby Boomers.
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Baby Boomers are two generations, it’s the first set that are the real assholes, the second set, not so much.
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[…] – “Relationship Limbo“, “Opportunity is Everywhere“, “Want a Happy Relationship? Make Sure Your […]
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Right, I’m talking about the ones born post-war and in the 1950s, and were in college in the mid 60s to early 70s. The first big Boom. God, I can’t wait until they’re all retired and in nursing homes.
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Ohh that is pretty sweeet. Thanks for sharing. Nice to see a cool site again in this industry.
–BurnList–
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