Randall Parker forwarded me a link to a study about abundance of mate choice affecting the quality of the choice.
Quantity may determine quality when choosing romantic partners
The context in which humans meet potential mates has a hidden influence on who they decide to pursue. In particular, when people have a large number of potential dating partners to select among, they respond by paying attention to different types of characteristics – discarding attributes such as education, smoking status, and occupation in favor of physical characteristics such as height and weight.
A number of studies in recent years have looked at what happens to humans when faced with extensive choice – too many kinds of chocolate, or too many detergents to choose from at the grocery store. Under such circumstances, consumer psychologists believe that the brain may become “overwhelmed,” potentially leading to poorer quality choice or choice deferral. Psychological scientist Alison Lenton, of the University of Edinburgh, and economist Marco Francesconi, of the University of Essex, wanted to know if the same was true of mate choice, given that humans have been practicing this particular choice for millennia. “Is having too many mate options really like having too many jams?” they ask. The study is published in Psychological Science, a journal of the Association for Psychological Science.
To find out how people respond to relatively limited versus extensive mate choice, Lenton and Francesconi analyzed data from 84 speed dating events, which is where people meet with a series of potential dates for three minutes each. Afterward, the men and women report their choices (a “yes” or “no” for each person). It should surprise no one that choosers generally preferred people who were taller, younger, and well-educated. Women also preferred partners who weren’t too skinny, and men preferred women who weren’t overweight. Beyond that, though, the attributes that speed daters paid attention to depended on how many opposite-sex speed daters attended the event.
At bigger speed dating events, with 24 or more dates, both male and female choosers were more likely to decide based on attributes that could be judged quickly, such as their dates’ height, and whether they were underweight, normal weight, or overweight. At smaller events, choosers were more likely to make decisions based on attributes that take longer to identify and evaluate, such as their dates’ level of education, their type of job, and whether or not the person smokes.
“Obviously, I think we look for different attributes in partners than what we look for in a chocolate, a jam or a 401(k) plan,” says Lenton. “But one of the points we’re trying to make in this article is it’s the same brain we’re carrying around. There are constraints on what our brains can do – they’re quite powerful, but they can’t pay attention to everything at once.” And if the brain is faced with abundant choice, even about who to go out with, it may make decisions based on what it can evaluate most quickly. As a result, this previously invisible aspect of the choice environment has the potential to determine one’s romantic fate.
The consumerists’ quandary. I’m surprised this phenomenon hasn’t been discussed more by game instructors. It would seem logical that the number of girls as well as the number of men in a pickup environment would have an effect on how we choose mates and how we ourselves are perceived as mates. How many times have you stood in front of a huge aisle displaying 62 varieties of vitamins and just said “fuck it” and grabbed the cheapest, or the nearest, brand? If “choice deferral” or choice constriction happens with vitamin brands, then it could conceivably happen with girl brands.
So what are the take-home points from this study? What should we men, always on the lookout for a quicker route to getting laid and loved, learn from the study’s conclusions?
- In groups that have a lot of men, (for example, clubs and bars on busy nights), women will evaluate your mate potential on “superficial” (i.e. readily discernible) qualities like height and looks.
- A corollary to number 1 is that in venues where there is a lot of male competition for the women to choose among, and you are average or below in superficial traits, you will not get many chances to run game on the girls.
- In groups of few people, (for example, book clubs or painting classes), women will evaluate your potential as a partner on more “meaningful” qualities that can only be discovered during the course of lengthier conversations.
- A corollary to number 3 is that women will be more likely to grant an average looking man an audition at an event that has few other men from which the women can choose. She will also want to know more about each man she joins in conversation.
If you imagine each woman has a tingle-o-meter that oscillates with varying strength to the proportion of male attractiveness traits present in a man she is talking with, and that also oscillates according to the number of other men in her visual field, then you can visualize how a typical woman will react to you in different environments. If you are great looking and tall, you will get a lot of insta-play from women where large numbers of other men are present. She will be choosing you almost entirely based on your easily perceived high value traits, and will likely be more forgiving of any shortfalls you may have in the less visually oriented suite of male attractiveness traits. So if you’re a broke, uneducated, Johnny Depp lookalike, you’ll want to make nightclubs your venue of choice, and you’ll want to close the deal sooner rather than later, before she has an inclination to dig deeper into your value as a man.
If you are not great looking or tall, then you’ll want to steer clear of venues where there will be a lot of men. You will do best in smaller groups with few men, let’s say bars on a weeknight, where the women will be open to learning more about you, and also likelier to overlook any physical shortcomings you may have. She will be choosing you based on a mixed package of easily perceived physical traits and less obvious high value male traits such as dominance, physical assuredness, humor, and charm/game. So if you have tight game but lack the looks to easily acquire auditions to demonstrate your game, you’ll want to focus on environments with few other men around, like day game or really any venue on a night besides Friday or Saturday night.
Since by definition most men are not in the top 10% of looks and height, it stands to reason that pickup instructors should not be teaching game to newbies in high energy environments like nightclubs. The best place to practice game is any place where a bunch of superficially high value men will not show up to distract the girl.
Some other conclusions we can draw from the study:
- This “choice abundance mentality” by women can be artificially triggered. If you have a lot of guy friends who are worse looking than you, then bring your posse to the local club. Faced with all those men to choose from, the women will naturally gravitate to you as the most superficially appealing man of the group.
- Addendum to the above: your friends can’t be *too* dorky, because then the women will tar you with the same dork brush.
- Also, if one of your less good looking friends has better game than you, and the environment you are in is sufficiently low key that he can run his game undistracted, then he may steal the girls’ attention from you. Good looks on a man are great, but good game is even better.
- If you are very good looking but a so-so conversationalist, you will want to stay away from things like book clubs, where the homelier men with sharp wits will absolutely crush you. I’ve seen it happen. Score one for the smooth talking Voltaires.
- If you are very good looking but have no game, suit up and hit da clubs on a busy night where women can instantly compare your looks to a ton of other men. Physical presence game is all you’ll need. Try to get used to one night stands.
- Homelier men should focus on gaming one or two girls in a night. They need more time to allow their heart light to shine. Theirs is a big stage with lots of props and a multitude of scenes to tell the story. Homelier men must be better at building connections with women, because a strong emotional connection will handily compensate for a weak physical magnetism.
- Good looking men should maximize the number of girls they hit on in a night. They don’t need a lot of time to attract attention. Theirs is a small stage featuring a one-act play and a very large audience all vying to get his autograph after the show. By maximizing the number of targets and compressing time spent with each target into a few minutes, they maximize their chance for a same night lay.
- If you have a sucky job and few ostentatious credentials to wave around, but your game is tight, you’ll want to hit on girls in large venues. The girls will be less likely to grill you on your educational and career background, and more likely to enjoy the spontaneous feelings you evoke in them. In other words, choice abundance means that girls are going to be too distracted to bother figuring out your life story. A confused girl is an easily gamed girl.
- If you have a great job, money, and conventional cred, but your game is weak, you’ll want to hit on girls on slow nights in smaller venues, or day game and insta-date them. Maximize your strengths and minimize your weaknesses. A calm, focused girl is a future time oriented girl who will judge on substance more than flash. (Note: sluts excluded.)
- Where there are a lot of men, you can create the illusion of male scarcity (and thus increase your odds of successfully gaming a girl) by walking away from girls early in a conversation. Always end conversations first, seem needlessly distracted, and make it seem like you are a man who has options, even if technically in a bar with more men than women, you don’t.
- If you are looking for a wife or girlfriend, you may want to shift your base of operations to smaller venues or events where you will be less tempted by choice abundance to invest time gaming the flashiest chicks whose key attribute is how good to go they are.
Apropos the study, only go to speed dating events where the women rotate. You will seem in higher demand than you really are.

The less men you compete with, the easier it is to be the alpha male.
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this is profoundly wise advice…good stuff
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You will never get far by seeking a womans approval.
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Interesting response — you lay your inner psyche bare for the world to see. Automatically you take the angle of trying to help men (and by proxy, obviously, yourself) optimize their chances by avoiding venues where their shortcomings are more evident. The working perspective is one of inferiority.
A true “Alpha” would never follow such a line of logic. He knows what he has and goes for what he wants automatically, without neurotically obsessing about it an internet blog.
I think a good therapist may be in order, Roissy. I wonder who the woman was who hurt you so much that you devolved into the sniveling, obsessing, insecure person you are today.
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Why do I get the feeling this is simply a longwinded study for something even betas intrinsically know – it’s time to leave the club when there’s too much sausage. While I don’t disagree with anything in the post per se, I think the points need to be modified for other variables. For example:
• Female competition anxiety due to a high number of attractive women in the same environment is going to offset the perception of choice abundance in that sampling.
• By virtue of their sex, women (particularly attractive, desirable ones) are used to conditions where their sexuality is a commodity and implies a default abundance of choice. This self-perception is then further modified by varying degrees of physical attractiveness and self esteem.
• Male physicality forgives a multitude of sins. In the initial stages, attraction is primarily physical and secondarily personal. Median to less attractive women are all too happy to forgive the personality faults of a Man who is 2 or more notches above their own degree of attractiveness – especially so when they perceive that they have a choice deficit because of it.
These speed dating studies are simply loosely arranged control group experiments, not in the field study. The pretext to participating in a speed dating event already implies that the ones participating are single and looking for a long term mate. It does nothing to address short term hook ups, or the factors that could modify in-the-field perceptions of choice abundance / deficit. I hardly think speed dating studies warrant pulling rAFCs from an uncomfortable environment where they’d learn more about social interaction (even if by failure) than opting for a controlled environment. I’m all for playing to one’s strengths, but there’s a lot more going on in a natural environment than a time limited controlled speed dating scenario.
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I’m consistently amazed at how much emphasis women place on height. I have a buddy who is extremely goofy looking, massive ears and sort of dorky disposition, with no game to speak of, but is 6’5″ tall. Girls approach him constantly. His face is, seriously, about 4 out of 10. We can go out in group of 5-6 guys, all of whom are all “good looking” and at least significantly better looking (facially) than this guy by a couple of points on the 10 scale andreasonably tall 5’10” – 6′. And with very predictable consistency, the girls walking by or hanging in the bar will, literally, not notice a single other guy in the group. It’s as if they are hypnotized by his height. They zone in on it and can’t be distracted from it without considerable effort. That is until they realize his betaness…
tits for a guy = height for girl
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Alchemist, you are absolutely right. Men over 6 foot have an inherent advantage right off the bat. Men under 5 foot 8 inches have a distinct disadvantage. The 75% of men in between have to otherwise grab a girls attention, and then create a “height” of status and social dominance.
I’d be interested to hear from some of the players on here under 6 foot as to what skills they have developed to create the physical illusion of height. I would think good posture, association with other men your height or shorter, gestures where you outstretch your arms, good shoes, would all make someone unconsciously appear taller to a woman than he really is. Posture = prevent neck from leaning too far forward, shoulders back, arms at side…
What else can a man of average height do to create the illusion of height?
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Apropos the study, only go to speed dating events where the women rotate. You will seem in higher demand than you really are.
Actually, it is the men who change how picky they are depending on whether men/women rotate. Women remain at about the same level of pickyness. Confusingly, it is true that women are less picky than men when women rotate but this is because having the women come to the men causes the men to become more picky.
[editor: the women don’t become less picky when they rotate. what happens is that the seated men become more alpha by dint of sitting down and being approached by women. thus, rotating women only *seem* to become less picky when in reality what is happening is that there are more alpha males for the women to choose from.]
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Lolzozlzozozozlzllzzolzzozlzzo!
Omg I have the biggest headache now.
Instead of hitting on hot chix nowq I first have 2 couint how many people are in the room beofre I whip myu massive cock out.
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I enjoy studies like this. The question that now needs to be asked is why bars and clubs have become such go-to venues for mating and dating. It obviously isn’t the best venue for the majority of men; most women, inundated with choice, would rather go home alone or with her girlfriends than talk to a bunch of guys who would probably be pretty good partners and/or fucks.
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Yep, height is a big advantage as far as INITIAL contact is concerned.
I am 6’2″ and only moderately handsome, but I find that it is much easier for me to strike up a conversation with a random women than it is for shorter men, not specifically because my height makes my initial approach more attractive, but because they have PREVIOUSLY NOTICED ME. When you speak to a girl who had previously not been aware of your very existence all the shields are up.
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Do you think social proof is noticed as easily as looks? It seems that social proof from a group of female friends/orbiters could let a homely but cool guy display his qualities in a club almost as easily as a handsome guy. Approaching too much and without natural openers might be very awkward with a lot of girls around tough.
The analytic kind of mindset that can hurt your chances when applied to the actual execution of game (and be triggered by too much reading and to little gaming) might be extremely useful for thinking strategically about meeting and seducing women. I’d love to see more analysis like this.
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I think most or all of the applied Roissy gives from this example is good.
I don’t think much of this study though, or of the idea that a large field of choice tends to lead women and men to chose one more “superficial” or very quickly determinable attributes like height and looks (and he could have added in a nightclub with dancing, dance moves).
In the study I think it likely in the speed dating meta analysis of experiments with various numbers of possible 2nd stage dates possible to select, i.e. a large (more than 24) or small field, that were interpreted to mean the participants were psychologically pulled to consider more quickly determinable qualities like height, weather overweight or not and looks when their field of choice was large, but more slowly and conversationally determinable things like level of education, their type of job, and whether or not the person smokes really occurred for a reason other than speed of determination. Assuming the same allowed minutes per potentially askable date, as seems to be the case at 3 min (otherwise, I mean come on, it’s obvious) I think it’s a range of choice thing. In a constricted range people will chose among the finer details more because there’s less range of choice among the first order things. Oh that 8 will get a lot of date requests in the small field too, but because the rest are statistically likely to all or almost all be 5’s and 6’s, people will go for the finer details to choose between. Though it’s most obvious when men are choosing that they’ll go more for appearance when the range on appearance is larger, on the female side the conversationally determined things mentioned in the writeup were also rather second order stuff in determining how alpha the guy is as well.
In Roissy’s application of this, well girls in large nightclubs are going go for the superficial alpha stuff more because they’re more likely focused on getting laid rather than only looking for a guy who will commit some to them first before they do – as opposed to on average girls picked up in day game. And so on.
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Great advice man. I like the fact that you cater to more than one personality type. Not every man on this planet has the god given natural charisma or ability to be the hard charging super alpha type. Well done.
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Great post. My experience backs up these conclusions. I’m 6’3′ and have always been told Im very handsome. The girls Im dating now have both actually told me, “I love how tall you are” or “Your height is what first attracted me to you”.
Additionally, you can get away with so much more. Im outgoing and can hold my own conversing socially in groups or one on one with women, but occasionally something stupid comes out of my mouth. On these occasions women have either laughed it off, or patted me on the head patronizingly and said “it’s a good thing you’re tall/pretty”.
Any further advice for tall good looking dudes? I routinely bang 7’s and 8’s. But I’d prefer to operate exclusively in the 8/9 tier of the pussy market. Granted, being in the DC area means that 9’s are very rare. I really need to optimize with the tools Im blessed with.
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Anyone have any tips for compensating for being under 6 foot? Perhaps the best compensating is not to compensate at all (Napoleon complex men are obnoxious). If I’m 5′ 11″ and in direct competition with a 6′ 3″ man with 25 pounds of size on me, what is the best tact to take? My instinct would be not do anything that could be interpreted as defensive or unprovoked hostility towards the competitor…but if nothing is done to distinguish myself from the taller competitor, he’s going to win, right? All things being equal, girls like taller guys. Any suggested strategies?
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the question here is, are tall guys attractive because they are tall, or do tall guys tend to be more attractive generally(through virtue of good genes)?
I generally don’t see too many lanky(tall and skinny) or chubby tall guys getting much action. Height can be a curse if you don’t carry it well. But if you’re relatively well built/decent face and hair then height does dramatically improve your chances.
Also i’d put facial dominance up their with height on the attractiveness scale. You might as well be 4ft tall if youv’e got a chubby baby face, slack jaw and can’t grow a beard.
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I am 20 something, 6’3” and fit and girls eye me and stare me all the time
I like to think I’m handsome but there is massive photographic evidence of me being ugly as shit (great hair though, and masculine traits)
girls I strike a random conversation with are also always smiling and accomodating.
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Anyone have any tips for compensating for being under 6 foot?
Read the post. If there aren’t too many men around then your height won’t count much against you.
You can also do it if you have other valuable qualities. I’ve picked up girls in crowded venues, winning them over much taller guys because I had status and am in good shape.
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this all makes sense from the standpoint of natural selection. in an environemnt with a lot of other men a woman’s priority becomes protection and protection for her children. she is going to look for a man who has obvious signs of being dominant over other men.
in an environment with less men a woman’s priority switches from a man who can protect her from other men to one who makes for the best match.
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Sidewinder,
“If I’m 5′ 11″ and in direct competition with a 6′ 3″ man with 25 pounds of size on me, what is the best tact to take?”
Use head movement, footwork, and a peek a boo defense. Don’t forget power, intimidation and hand speed.
Watch how Tyson did it:
– MPM
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@sidewinder
Height is a pretty arbritrary measurement of attractiveness, not every 6′ 3″ guy is going to be more attractive than you physically and it varies from girl to girl, i know plenty of girls who value muscularity, facial looks, dress sense, dancing ability etc far more than height.
Plus tall guys with no game quickly come off as very lame, the dissapointment factor can shutdown a pick up very quickly especially if the woman in question is very attractive.
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I’m 5’8″ and do have plenty of stumbling blocks while converting to lays (mostly my own rustyness), been through dry-spells, been crushed in LTR’s… But height on an initial approach? Getting noticed, shields? Not a hater, but WTF guys… What do you do exactly? I’m with lollzz guy on this one.
My worst approach blow-out was when I hit (shitty BL/frame wise) on one of 3 suburban bimbos with horsegirl and she was like “are you saying I look like a horse”, almost started crying and asked barmen to kick me out (he just ignored her). Still, if I was better, it was salvageable, as another one of 3 kept shooting looks at me for a while.
Besides that, sure had plenty of “can I have a ciggie/light/drink” or “what do you do? – boring answer” when compliance led to instant blow-out, but a remotely game-y response has lots of chicks literally light up. Dance floor game is perhaps easier for tall guys, but even there not that much. A lot of it sounds the same as chumps bitching about women attracted to wallets or cars. All that doesn’t hurt, but not a fix-all either. And I’ll be damned if I don’t go out on a Friday night and don’t hit on chicks if I’d get more optimal responses at a “book club”. lollzz 🙂
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Sidewinder
I prefer to date miniature girls. Five foot 2 or less. The one girl who gave me a perma boner was a micro mini.
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Although, there is one advantage to dating a tall beanpole girl. You can rest your head on chest while fucking.
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Sidewinder
Focus on girls 5’6″ and under. Some of them will still prefer real tall guys, but many won’t.
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sidewinder–
As well you should have a bit of a Napoleon thing. That is act dominant. The main reason that girls tend to prefer height is that the think it tends to make guys more likely dominant. A bantum tough guy may amuse people to start with, but if he proves himself, they will quickly take him seriously, esp. girls. Doesn’t have to be fist fight tough these days. Verbal sparring tough w/other guys for example, or funny in sometimes cutting ways always has a substrate of fear in the enjoyment of his listeners, often not consciously recognized. People in fact nearly always have to be told this, sometimes often, to realize it. Though at 5’11 you’re hardly bantum.
Guys who are 6’3″ but act like wuzzes and many of them do, tend to quickly lose the early edge w/girls.
You’re still gonna be challenged to attract girls your height or very close though, not to mention taller. Oh it happens but the guy’s generally rich and powerful or a star athelete etc. with dominance out the wazoo.
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Doug1,
Focus on girls 5′6″ and under. Some of them will still prefer real tall guys, but many won’t.
hit or miss IMO. I said many times before, I had a rather disproportional amount of same and a bit taller and really tall girls… I’d say if you are average height, average height girls (about 5’6″) are probably most prone to preferring some tall asshole over you 🙂 Tiny girls of course are a go, tall girls I don’t think are just hung up on it as much – probably don’t associate masculinity with height as much.
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Doug,
You would think that would work, but I’ve found that girls around 5’5″ and 5’6″ are the MOST concerned with a guy’s height. Strangely, I’ve done pretty well with tall girls (5′ 9″ or taller) or shorter girls (5′ 4″ or shorter). I’ve never understood the tall girl thing, and have wondered whether taller girls have more testosterone and are just sluttier generally. I’ve kind of noticed the same phenomenon with attractive girls. I’m more comfortable and bat a higher percentage with 8’s than with 7’s. I wonder if girls of average height and looks place more importance on male physical traits because they are insecure about their own?
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Real tall girls, though I’d have said it’s more above 5’10, tend to have a lot fewer guys pursing them, including tall guys, at a given level of looks. Esp. if they aren’t 9’s etc. Oh maybe if the guy is super tall, but 6′ girls who are a 7 are gonna attract a lot less 6’3 guys than a girl who’s 5’7 will. I’m 6’3 and that tends to be how I roll.
5’5 to 5’9 tends to be the sweet spot for girls, with the most guys after them which means also the most hot guys, at a given level of facial hotness.
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Looks trump height
IF your good looking u should have no troubles getting women unless were talking extremely short like 5’4 and under
as long as your good looking cute/height means little, a attractive short guy is in a better positon then ta tall uglyor average looking guyGenerally, a shorter guy will do fine if he’s handsome and in good shape…probably even better than a guy of above average height who is not handsome and out of shape.
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Another overlooked game setting is a college campus.
If you’re a smart older guy, take a college course. When people ask you why you’re in class, you say, “I always wanted to learn about [x], but was too focused on my career.” You’ll look intellectually curious while also career driven.
Since you have education and life experience, you’ll be able to establish alpha status pretty easily, and will find a chick interested in you.
Psychology classes provide especially fruitful harvests. All of those chicks have “daddy issues” of some sort. A smart, resourceful, curious male is like honey to them.
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Status status status status status. While women will (for obvious reasons) notice tall men first, a man is not going to be able to keep their attention if he’s dull and doesn’t command the respect of his peers. If you’re smaller but are smarter than your friends, can tell entertaining stories and make people laugh, and show interest in things other than yourself, women will gather around you and start competing for your attention even though you’re shorter than the other guys. A man can go from hunk to lunk very quickly if he’s not interesting. To help the comparison, have at least one non-total loser-ish friend who defers to you in your group.
It also helps if you’re not surrounded by men who are significantly taller. Don’t be the shortest guy in your friend group. Have one tall friend to get the girls’ attention, then swoop the girls with your personality. Also, try going for shorter girls. A girl who is 5’0″-5’4″ usually will be plenty satisfied with a man who is 5’7″-5’9″-ish. Most women just want to be able to wear heels and still be shorter than the man they’re with.
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Chris,
You’re a troll and get the hell off of this blog. Roissy’s time is too valuble to waste responding to trash like you.
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If you’re shortish but have good hair, spike it. (Assuming you’re not too old to pull off the look.) That will add 2-3 inches to your perceived height. Also, bold hair is a signal of vitality.
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“Use head movement, footwork, and a peek a boo defense. Don’t forget power, intimidation and hand speed.
Watch how Tyson did it:”
Yeah but G, you left something out. Tyson wasn’t wearing a custom made suit. You’re slipping brother.
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I’m short not good looking guy with a great job ($500K year) & credentials. I’m a bodybuilder so I used to do well with women on the beach but that scene has dried up as I’ve gotten older.
Other than that I’ve only met high quality women through friends or work. I can’t pick up any girls above 5’s in spite of my credentials. Any advice?
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Aunt Haley,
If you’re smaller but are smarter than your friends, can tell entertaining stories and make people laugh, and show interest in things other than yourself
Or even if you are short, stocky, slow-witted and bald…
🙂
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Boston,
Since you are a bodybuilder, I assume you are investing appropriately to maximize your looks. If you have something stigmatizing about your looks, I would recommend cosmetic surgery to neutralize the problem. How is your hair? teeth? I recently did invisalign to close some spacing in my teeth and was shocked at how it improved my appearance in photos. Since people listening to you are often looking at your mouth, that is an area that needs to be taken care of. Going from average teeth to great smile can really increase your looks score a full point, in my opinion. If you can improve there, I think you would at least get out of the 5’s and into the 6’s, given the rest of your bio.
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DC area guys–
Speaking of which, what about American University. I noticed in connection with the bruhaha there over the supposed insensitivity (breaking of taboos about questioning) feminist shiboliths about date rape by a columnist in the student newspaper there, that the female / male sex ratio at AU is 2:1!!
I get it’s 60/40 at many places below the first tier these days, but 2:1??!!!!!!!
Damn.
Any fishing in those waters?
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I think height is overrated I have buddies 6’4ish and get nothing. when they do get any women its usually plain janes.
Im 5’8 and like 5’10 in boots. Honestly I have had hotter women that my friends.
Height is only one feature among many , famous actors are known for their looks not height, pitt , clooney , efron, depp, beckham etc
if height was the final factor they would just be tall and thats it, we would just comment on that alone they all would be 6’5 plus and their looks wouldnt matter, it would just be height
ergo height is nice feature but not solely determinant
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boston–
Don’t even CONSIDER marrying and living in the US EVER without this kind of prenup.
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Anyone have any tips for compensating for being under 6 foot?
http://cajunsspice.blogspot.com/2008/06/so-you-like-tall-women.html
I was quite surprised at cajuns height. I mean did you see how well he did in the keys to the vip? All girls were taller than him too.
Rock solid confidence.
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[editor: the women don’t become less picky when they rotate. what happens is that the seated men become more alpha by dint of sitting down and being approached by women. thus, rotating women only *seem* to become less picky when in reality what is happening is that there are more alpha males for the women to choose from.]
This is the study:
http://faculty.wcas.northwestern.edu/eli-finkel/documents/49_FinkelEastwickInPress_PSci.pdf
From the Figure 1C on page 4 for”Would say yes”
men rotate:
men 50%
women 43%
women rotate:
men 43%
women 45%
difference between men rotate and women rotate
men 7%
women -2%
The women really don’t change their pickyness much, but when women rotate they are less picky than men mainly because the men become more picky. It’s confusing.
Oddly, the study also says that both men and women are more confident when they rotate. In real life, you are going to be more confident when women approach you, but you may also be somewhat skeptical.
[editor: that’s basically what i said. the women don’t become 2% less picky when they rotate; they become 2% more attracted to the men when the men are sitting down receiving female approaches than when the men are rotating and approaching the women. this is because sitting and receiving female visitors (preselection) projects a more alpha vibe than standing, walking, and approaching women. the men, for their part, realize their higher status when sitting and having women approach them, and so become pickier. as it turns out, relatively pickier than women who are sitting down. it’s the flip the script concept, which so much of game theory is based upon.]
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Ovid,
“Yeah but G, you left something out. Tyson wasn’t wearing a custom made suit. You’re slipping brother.”
He did go suited down at press conferences though.
Especially back when he was winning.
Wonder if there was a correlation?
– MPM
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Good looks on a man are great, but good game is even better.
No, that’s actually false! Good looks on a man are just way too swoooon worthy!!!!! I’d much rather have a hottie with zero game than an average guy with too much game. A hot guy with a touch of low-ish self esteem (they do exist) is definitely my preferred cup of tea! Hi Tupac! :love:
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Question: are pointy breast in? Perky of course but not unbelievably round. 😦
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boston
“I’m short not good looking guy with a great job ($500K year) & credentials. I’m a bodybuilder so I used to do well with women on the beach but that scene has dried up as I’ve gotten older.
Other than that I’ve only met high quality women through friends or work. I can’t pick up any girls above 5’s in spite of my credentials. Any advice?”
Funnel some of that 500k per year into part ownership of a nightclub.
Or better yet a Gentleman’s Club.
– MPM
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Chris @1:06pm,
Stop griping that we’re not doing what an alpha would do.
Everyone here is AT BEST a beta with game. No one here is an alpha.
Meaning we need to control the environment and the encounter to lure chicks.
That an alpha male could get pussy not worrying about these things — so what?
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Pay attention to your proportions and dress to maximize the illusion of height. If, for instance, your hips are about the same width as your shoulders you will appear shorter than you are if you emphasize, or at least don’t de-emphasize, your hip width. One reason men often look better in suits, assuming the suit actual fits well, is that suits emphasize the broadness of shoulders while slimming hips.
Also, anecdotally as a short girl, men of average height are just as attractive as tall men; plus it’s far easier to get to know someone when both of you aren’t straining to bridge a foot gap in height.
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“What else can a man of average height do to create the illusion of height?”
One, don’t obsess over it.
Two, get a custom made suit.
– MPM
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So basically what you’re saying, is if you ain’t that big a fish, it’s in your favour to move to a smaller pond.
This correlates with something a few posts ago, where you discussed that being high status in one area (ie bookclub) will work great there, but that status dissapears if you take it outside it’s original environment.
By the way, the rotating males vs females thing is probably my favourite fact from this blog 🙂
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Can’t speak to American University specifically, but my local city college of Major Metropolitan Area has been nothing but pure win.
I was always a stand-out student in college. I had zero game, but girls in classes were always attracted to me. I was an intellectual alpha.
Now that I’m older and have game, meeting college chicks is even easier.
Plus, there are lots of mid-20s chicks still in college. It’s not like when I went: In the 90s, chicks were 18-22. There are tons of chicks “going back to school” or sitting out the recession or whatever.
It’s cheap. Classes are $128 a semester at city college. Chicks approach you after class to “study.”
Dominance is always context specific. If you’re a smart guy with life experience, you’ll draw them to you. Plus, even reading for an hour before class is way more than 90% of the rest of the class will do. You’ll seem like you really have a deep understanding of these issues. LOL.
I could not recommend College Game more.
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Sidewinder makes a good point about having good teeth. It’s an easy way to improve your looks. Especially now that Invisalign is available – where you can get them straightened and do so without it being painfully obvious. Costs a fair amount of cash, and is somewhat lengthy treatment (I had 8 month treatment – great results) but, is well worth it in the long run. Whitening is something to consider too.
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This is how i see the height issue:
6’2″ and above – height is a major advantage. Girls will notice and approach you, even with mediocre looks. However, tight game is still necessary. tight game + height = welcome to alphaville
5’8″ – 6’1″ – height is basically a non-issue, you won’t get screened out based on it (unless girl is a 6′ + monstrosity), but you may end up having to work a lot harder to get noticed than someone of comparable looks but greater height.
5’7″ and under – it’s a big negative that you have to compensate for with some other attribute. Be it amazing looks, money or fame. A 5’5″ dude with your average corporate job making 55K a year is, most likely, not going to get laid much, if ever.
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Game rules over height, but as Roissy points out, it’s all about getting the audition in the first place.
I’m just a couple millimeters shy of 6’2″ and unfortunately it hasn’t seemed to help me much. I also have a fairly good looking face. The problem of course, up till the last few years, was lack of game and betatude. I had plenty of opportunities, but I blew at least half of them.
It pains me to admit that dudes shorter than 5’6″ with tight-ass game have stolen my hot chicks right out from under me more than once.
Bottom line is that tighter game will counter nearly all flaws, which is why it’s such a godsend and the perfect antidote to feminism.
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Whoever made the comment about a “true alpha” – the fact is that very few such men exist. Most people have situational confidence (i.e. I can dust you on the ski slopes, but maybe you can kill me at chess), but very few men have confidence in every situation. Even the most successful politicians (who do it all with rhetoric – the money comes after the rhetoric) are often lacking in confidence in certain contets. Think Richard Nixon.
Even celebrities will admit this. They just get lots of trim because, by dint of being a celebrity, all the hard work of social proof is done for them by the time they meet the girl.
Once upon a time even Brad Pitt had to go auditions, and until he got famous I bet he had only average to slightly above average success at getting laid.
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Oh and I’m a pretty good looking guy too, but until I learned game I struggled just like any other beta. Even today guys who havbe tighter game but aren’t as good looking sometimes steal the prize.
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Small game?…try “micro-game” on your PC.
Not sure if anyone reads my posts but as a PSA to PUA….some serious over-supply in online dating….esp, under 27 euro….alpha plague has taken hold in last stage of recession or something.
My week via online dating:
-Tues, 24 8.5
-Wed, 23 9.0
-Thur, 27 8.0
-Fri, 29 8 (9.0 body)
-Sat, 27 (8, ex-Hawaiian tropic) @2pm
-Sat, 25 (platinum porn star looks, 7.5), 9pm
-Sun, 23 7 (8 body); +misc run-off/re-books
Not gonna lie, this takes 500+ cut-paste/wk, rolling 25 emails daily, reverse engineering zipcode density age/single, and plenty of brutal, nasty abuse.
I generally double book, and plan on 20% cancels.
Re-booked two today with email:
“Your cell bill must be unpaid, sent you text with no response, lets re-book…my schedule filling up”. Texts in 90 seconds later from 2.
Last month stats:
10 dates
4 makeouts
1 bang — never heard back
3 stand-ups
3 cancels <1hr
2 flakes
I dont do over 30, cut bait quickly and drill down and constantly re-engineer my profile to be in top index rankings (add/delete comma). I took 120 pics till i got perfect pitch angle on my face, jaw, hair, skin tone.
Respond to this opportunity or not…I will be cornering this market for some time…
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Hmmm, for extra height, try cowboy boots with a riding heel. Mine all have fairly rounded toes, not the sharp point so commonly associated with boots. All my boots are also basic black with black stiching. Subtle enough that I’ve even had a woman comment on the fact that I was the only Texas she had met who wasn’t wearing cowboy boots. Hah! Go figure, her mother is a Mensa member… Expect to pay $100-$200 dollars for a decent pair of boots.
Lots of good advice, much of it should be obvious, but it is nice to see it spelled out. Thanks for posting.
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I’m just a couple millimeters shy of 6′2″ and unfortunately it hasn’t seemed to help me much.
How is your posture?
Do this test: When you stand up straight against the wall, if your head up against it? I bet it’s not.
Most guys lose 2-3 inches of height due to working in an office environment. It pronates your shoulders and rounds your back, causing you to slouch.
Get a foam roller and use it regularly.
Also, do all of those “office hygiene” exercises that the usually-worthless HR people recommend.
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Good stuff. I’m somewhere in the middle, good looking but not very tall. Will adjust accordingly.
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I don’t get this obsession with a man’s height. I’m 5’7″ and I don’t find tall men any more attractive then shorter men. Yes, most women want someone at least as tall as they are, but that’s usually enough. Also, I had two friends in college that were quality girlfriend material and pretty, but both were about 5’10”. I think they may have gotten less male attention because of being tall.
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I agree with G Manifesto, wear a quality suit that fits right.
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Tailored clothing is the mark of a refined gentleman.
No offense Silver Fox, but 4 makeouts and 1 bang is a lazy week for me barely trying, and calling up a friend with benefits. If that is all that you’re getting from all that time screwing around on dating sites, I’d say that confirms they are a bust.
I have a couple pics that got me rated a solid 9 every time I put them on Hot or Not. These pics, coupled with good profile building and writing skills, have never netted me a goddamn thing with any online girl I would consider dating.
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the only time i ever speed dated was wehn i had three chicks over and i was eting one out while giving cok to another and fingering a third…
then they switched it up…
and omg it was aweomse though yes if there had been more chicks i would have not had the time to get to know their persoanlities so well, and the sex would have been more purely physical.
thank got it was only 3 chix!!!
we get it deep and real. deep in the vaginals and real hard. zzozollzllzlz
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awesome job.
I wish you posted more similar to this. This is solid advice.
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I would just note that this is not at true in college. I am 5 foot 8 and every time I go to the bars/huge house parties I take a girl home.
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One questionable advantage to being a tall guy is all the tall-ish women (5′ 10″ and above) who virtually throw themselves at you. Like most women, tall chicks want a man who is taller than them, but their pool of suitable mates is smaller than other chicks. They get desperate. The problem is, unless you are famous, rich or model good-looking in addition to being tall, the chicks are all 7’s or below. So Game is still paramount.
OTOH, I see tall guys here talking about shorter dudes with more game smoking them in the field. I disagree. The only times I’ve seen that happen is when the shorter dude is not *truly* short (like, say 5′ 6″ or below) and is also super buff and built, OR has a model face. Yeah, in those cases it’s a foregone conclusion the “shorter” guy will sweep you. But in all other other circumstances, I have beat out guys who had more game than me. It’s sad, really. They obviously played their hearts out and truly deserved to win, yet they lost a chick who was simply digging me for my height/looks. Not that I’m complaining.
(Incidentally, my moms is 5′ 1″ and my pops is 6′ 2″. Every single day I get on bended knee and metaphorically kiss my father’s hand for my 6′ 1″ height. While the seduction community is correct to point out that male looks are nowhere near as important to women as female beauty is to men, male height is the one glaring exception. For tall guys it’s not so much about having cutting edge Game as it is, “don’t. be. Beta.” — and you’re in like Flynn)
No question – height DOES matter.
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A hot guy with a touch of low-ish self esteem (they do exist) is definitely my preferred cup of tea! Hi Tupac! :love:
Thanks!
But I’m saving myself for Pupu the Moo Cow.
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“OTOH, I see tall guys here talking about shorter dudes with more game smoking them in the field. I disagree. The only times I’ve seen that happen is when the shorter dude is not *truly* short (like, say 5′ 6″ or below) and is also super buff and built, OR has a model face. Yeah, in those cases it’s a foregone conclusion the “shorter” guy will sweep you. But in all other other circumstances, I have beat out guys who had more game than me. It’s sad, really. They obviously played their hearts out and truly deserved to win, yet they lost a chick who was simply digging me for my height/looks. Not that I’m complaining.”
whatever you say man( chuckles)
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Mike:
I’m just a couple millimeters shy of 6′2″ and unfortunately it hasn’t seemed to help me much.
How is your posture?
Do this test: When you stand up straight against the wall, if your head up against it? I bet it’s not.
Most guys lose 2-3 inches of height due to working in an office environment. It pronates your shoulders and rounds your back, causing you to slouch.
Get a foam roller and use it regularly.
Fuck yes. Mike knows what time it is. All you runts out there, forget the platform shoes and spikey hair(???), posture is where it’s at. A few years back I got a bit obsessed with body-oriented therapies like Bioenergetics, Feldenkrais and the Alexander Technique. Apart from their dubious psychological claims, I learned a HELL of a lot regarding body orientation, posture and movement. At the time I had fallen off the gym wagon, and was in the worst shape I had been in a long time, but I had been working on my posture and alignment. On more than a few occassions I ran into old friends who hadn’t seen me in a while and they all remarked on my appearance. One even thought I had been taking steroids.
I can’t emphasize this enough. There is SO MUCH to how you hold yourself and your posture that you are not aware of. Your grandmother telling you to “sit up straight” only scratches the surface. It begins with the link between your foot position (pronation, supination, etc.) and your lower leg. Whether you keep your knees locked or not. The gluteus minimus and the positioning of your hips — lordotic curves or hyperextended pelvis. The core muscles in the belly — rectus femoris, transversus, quadratus lumborum. Moving higher you encounter the kyphosis of the mid and upper back. And then things get really interesting around the neck are and the alignment of the skull over the thoracic cage.
The idea isn’t necessarily that you elongate everything to appear taller, but that when you bring yourself into proper alignment and move with “right action” you give the *appearance* of a lubricated, vital, well-functioning organism that is always coiled for action — neither too relaxed and slack, but neither too stiff and tense. Like a supple cat.
For the gym rats, focusing on proper form on deadlifts (DON’T hyperextend the back, DON’T flex the neck upward, keep the upper spine neutral) will produce many dividends.
But it’s something you have to be cognizant of throughout the whole day. Spending 15 minutes a day, or even an hour in he gym won’t “set” the new movement patterns into your neurology. You need to make it a habit of attending to these things throughout the whole day until they become second nature.
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Great post Roissy. Learned a lot from it.
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whatever you say man( chuckles)
Huh? How is what I’m saying different from what you said upthread:
IF your good looking u should have no troubles getting women unless were talking extremely short like 5′4 and under
as long as your good looking cute/height means little, a attractive short guy is in a better positon then ta tall uglyor average looking guyGenerally, a shorter guy will do fine if he’s handsome and in good shape…probably even better than a guy of above average height who is not handsome and out of shape.”
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Me and my old roomate were talking about this the other day. We were talking about the only guys we know that actually get approached by girls regularly (and thus, have it the easiest) at bars are tall guys.
Any friend or guy I know that gets approached by women at bars, they’re all 6’3″ or taller – no bullshit.
At 5’11”, I just don’t have the same effect.
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Sad to say, game counts. Roissy speaketh the truth.
I’m 6’4″ 195 pounds and have been told I look like a model more times than I can count. Chicks stare all the time. Well travelled, foreign accent, bilingual and ivy league educated. In all my years have never had a successful pickup. Textbook, classic minus omega. The look of dissappointment on chicks’ faces is killer. Within seconds, normally.
I am deadly f’ing serious I am not trolling.
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@WW –
5′ 11″ is still within the realm of easy livin’. You just need to have some game. You might not get approached first, but that’s a minor obstacle.
IME, the cutoff where things start to get a little hairy is the national average of 5′ 8″ or 5′ 9″. But if you are good looking and in shape, even then height is not much of an issue.
It’s only when you get to 5′ 6″ and below that you start to really need to have all your ducks in a row: game, charm, clothes/style, fitness, wealth/status, etc.
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Ulysees:
Sad to say, game counts. Roissy speaketh the truth.
I’m 6′4″ 195 pounds and have been told I look like a model more times than I can count. Chicks stare all the time. Well travelled, foreign accent, bilingual and ivy league educated. In all my years have never had a successful pickup. Textbook, classic minus omega. The look of dissappointment on chicks’ faces is killer. Within seconds, normally.
Dude, something is not adding up here.
What line of work are you in? What do you do for fun?
Are you autistic/aspergy? Not hatin’, I just want to understand.
Someone with your stats should have been able to at LEAST fall into some chicks at the 5-6 level, at LEAST.
I think you’re leaving something out.
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pac, what’s wrong with hyperextending the back on deadlifts? my squats game is pristine, but i will shamelessly cop to a lacking deadlifts game.
[editor: same question. by hyperextending, i assume tupe of earl means curving inward, not outward? because the proper form as i understand it for deadlifts is to keep the back ramrod straight, neither rounded nor arched.]
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Cannon –
A lot of guys will use perfect form to get the weight up 80% of the way, but they will lock out by hyperextending the back. That’s not the right way. The idea is to use the glutes to *extend the hips* into full extension. To say nothing of the fact that hyperextending with HYOOGE deadlift weights is a a great way to pinch a nerve or get a subluxation.
Google “glute amnesia”
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Has anyone noticed that really short guys have the advantage that they go under the radar?
I’m talking dudes around 5-4 to 5-7. Girls, at first, don’t even consider them threats/mates(almost gay guy like), and thus will immediately friend zone them and talk to them. Yet, if these guys have solid game, they can win over the chicks.
Think Russell Hantz(5-6) from the last two seasons of survivor and his ability to befriend and manipulate women.
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quick google search:
stronglifts.com/how-to-deadlift-with-proper-technique/
tmuscle.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance/mastering_the_deadlift_part_ii
“As you reach lockout, imagine pinching something between your buttcheeks at the top to lock the weight out. This glute activation helps to prevent you from leaning back to finish the movement (lumbar hyperextension) and stopping short (can lead to hamstring dominance and a host of problems). ”
etc, etc.
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[editor: same question. by hyperextending, i assume tupe of earl means curving inward, not outward? because the proper form as i understand it for deadlifts is to keep the back ramrod straight, neither rounded nor arched.]
When you hyperextend the back, the bend occurs in the lumbar region. But you are right that a normal lumbar curve is to be maintained throughout the movement. The point is, you maintain that *slight* curve while using the glutes to extend (or “open”) the hips. A lot of guys cheat the deadlift by getting the weight 80% of the way up, and when their hips are still in flexion (bent), they just flex at the lower back to get the weight the rest of the way up. This is not good for a variety of reasons.
It’s hard tpo explain in words.
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A good way to visualize it is, instead of thinking of *lifting* the bar up with your upper body, imagine if the bar was locked in place and you are *driving* your feet and legs *through* the floor. That’s a mental trick that helps people get the feel for the movement.
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To avoid injuring your spinal discs, remember a few simple rules.
1. Maintain maximum muscle tone in your abs. This reduces the compressive loads on your lower spine.
2. Don’t get fat.
3. Always keep your spine straight when lifting anything heavy.
4. Avoid lifting anything heavy except in a controlled situation.
5. Don’t get fat.
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I screwed up that second link:
tmuscle.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance/mastering_the_deadlift_part_ii
Scroll down to where it says “Here’s another bad lockout (leaning back/hyperextension)”
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here’s an important video i found on the subject
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dammit it’s still screwed up.
Try this link instead
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fack, i am definitely a “shin-scraper”
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Actually later on in that t-nation article there is a video of hyperextension in the deadlift, but I can’t link to it. Search for “hyperextended lockout”
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Roissy, concerning your comment about homelier voltaire-like men. Wasn’t it Voltaire himself who said: “It is not enough to conquer; one must also know how to seduce.” …?
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@ Tupac- mild asbergers maybe? Or is that just a fancy way of saying social retarded, With zero confidence?
it’s like I was born with that lobe missing. Childhood stuff didn’t help, but nothing people haven’t dealt with before.
A freaking mystery.
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http://www.jeffc.org/images/image3.jpg.html
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@ Tupac- mild asbergers maybe? Or is that just a fancy way of saying social retarded, With zero confidence?
Well look on the bright side: at least you are buoyed by all your other strong suits. That way, all you have to focus on is your Game and interpersonal gregariousness. That’s a lot easier than someone who needs to work on every single aspect of their personhood.
It sounds to me like you would be a prime candidate for starting out with something basic (but solid) like Mike Pilinski’s “Without Embarassment”:
highstatusmale.com/
it’s like I was born with that lobe missing. Childhood stuff didn’t help, but nothing people haven’t dealt with before.
But you say you are 6′ 4″, 195lbs, and are model good looking? Hmmmm…. I know this girl “me me me” who you need to meet.
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I live in a city where I”m an ethnic outsider, taller than most of the girls and alpha in a city where most of the men are hen-pecked betas.
This presents some interesting exchanges with women and a general power struggle with the local women.
They often lament the lack of “men” and how they are looking for dominant males, but then on the other hand when it comes to gaming some of them, it often stops because their fear factor comes up.
Case and point, gamed a girl in my social circle, younger, cute, lots of kino, lots of IOI’s attraction, is going hot and cold. I give lots of cocky/funny, negs, qualifying her.
One day she disappears, comes back. I ignore, she tries to get my attention, I throw her a bone, she pulls back.
So I wonder in some cases whether in general women fear what they most want—a dominant guy.
Also, this same girl appears at our social circle with some completely beta guy she’s dragging around…I would say he’s super beta.
What gives? The 6’1″ height, the confidence I exude, the DHV’s, the cockiness is often shit-tested with cries of “you’re arrogant”….almost as thought it’s an attempt to beta-ize me to their level.
In other cases, when I’ve pulled back, these same women have come back with a pursuit that is almost desparate and scary.
So I ask all of you:
1. Do many women fear and resist the thing they most want—an alpha? How to overcome this, or are some women simply just not worth the effort. The advice on this blog is gold, but in the cultural context I live in, where women expect a bit of beta but then hate guys for it, seems a contradiction. I’ve lost women because of my alphaness but banged other chicks because of it.
2. Does the height, my ethnic exoticness and confidence mean you’re always overqualifying yourself?
Solutions?
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walawala –
A good seduction is always a mixture of push and pull. You can’t be a hard-case the whole time 100% unless you are a biker dude who is gaming jaded biker chicks.
Women want to see a little bit of your soft side before they can feel comfortable enough to spread.
Whether that soft side is genuine or artificial is a choice I leave for you to decide.
Like someone else here said earlier, (paraphrasing): “Begin as alpha, slide into beta = wet pussy. Begin as beta, slide into alpha = no pussy”
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walawala–
You sound black, wanting to poach on white girls in a white city / town.
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hey roissy if you wrote and published a book you would be rich man lzozlzlzllzlzlzlzlz
you r a gr8 writer and u don’t take shit from the feministrs who run new york publishing so they will h8 u but so wat?
the more they h8 u the more we will buy ur book.
i will buy many copies for my friends who are alphas but think they are betas because teh neocons tell them that if they fight for tehir country and die on foreign shores for the neocon wars they are betas but if they film secretive tapings of butthex without telling the girl the neocons lauid them and repeat their lieas lozzllzzozlzozzlzozl.
anyways my firneds overseas are the true alphas, not the secretive tapers of butthexers and those who cheat with their cheating whore wives lzozlzlz
my friends overseas would love yuou book roissy it would mean a lot to them so please publish one soon thanx!!
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A hot guy with a touch of low-ish self esteem (they do exist) is definitely my preferred cup of tea! Hi Tupac! :love:
Thanks!
But I’m saving myself for Pupu the Moo Cow.
———————————————————————-
If I was a guy I’d save myself for Pupu too. I think I should run extra squeezy super tight BFF game on her, just so I can have a piece of the Pupu sweetie pie too. You’ve definitely made the right choice! *thumbs up*
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oops! that was supposed to be for…
TOOOOOPAC!!!!!
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even the chicks here get drunk and post comments
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What happens when sheepfucker goes out to a flock?
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If I was a guy I’d save myself for Pupu too. I think I should run extra squeezy super tight BFF game on her, just so I can have a piece of the Pupu sweetie pie too. You’ve definitely made the right choice! *thumbs up*
Thanks. I can see you have good taste in women as well. I’ll be sure to put in a good word for you. Hope the three of us can dance to the same tune someday.
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This is random and useless, but GenderAnalyzer.com thinks Roissy is a girl:
http://www.genderanalyzer.com/?url=roissy.wordpress.com
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Good taste in women? Put in a good word for me?!? Oh my lordy! Tupac, why did you have to take it “there”????
Sheesh!
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walawala —
You bring up some interesting topics for discussion. With regards to your first question about what women desire/fear, I believe you are approaching the subject from a rational perspective, as we often are accustomed to doing as men.
What a woman desires most and fears most may not necessarily be different, so I think you are on the right path there. It’s up to us to walk that thin line to transition a position of dominance into an LTR. Women definitely fear handsome/confident/sexy/incorrigible pricks, though. Why? A man who isn’t beholden to his woman is a man with options, so they are rightfully fearful that they’ll lose him, or at the very least, face competition. Regardless, these are the exact men that give women the tingles that Roissy speaks of, and they are powerless against having those feelings.
As to the overqualifying, I don’t think it is related to your attitude or height as it is simply to racial or cultural difference. I’d like to think that in some ways any negative effect you bring about by trying to qualify yourself as a suitor is canceled out by your exoticism, but that might be oversimplifying things. I suspect that this is something you are going to have to battle with on an individual basis. What could be a turn-on to one girl could be a stumbling block to another.
I’m curious as to where you are located. I suspect it is in Asia as I’ve read that, in marriage, Asian women typically dominate the balance of power while the men just check out and fade into the sunset.
Being a sexless hen-pecked beta in marriage is a fate I wouldn’t wish upon my worst enemy. Then again, we were all born with free will and the capacity to reason… right?
dj
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Since by definition most men are not in the top 10% of looks and height, it stands to reason that pickup instructors should not be teaching game to newbies in high energy environments like nightclubs.
Speculating that PUA instructors favor nightclubs because “game” isn’t a panacea in a box, and most guys just need to get over their fear of rejection and figure out what works for themselves. The standard advice you hear from these guys is that newbies should expect to get shot down 50 times before they get a date. Try that at the monthly book club.
Plus, women in nightclubs are fully expecting to be hit on, and will frequently “number close” to get rid of a guy they have no interest in, which gives the illusion of success.
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Also, I’m 6’4″ and occasionally shorter women will ogle me like a guy drools at double-D tits. Actually dating them always exposes some weird inferiority complex about the height difference, plus I like girls who I can kiss standing up.
Occasionally my height has gotten me an in with taller girls (like 6’0″), but as far as I can tell, it doesn’t have any pull with women of average height.
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@Doug1, walawala doesn’t sound black to me, he sounds desi, after all he’s “taller than most of the girls” in other words average or a little below average height.
Also ime black men will lower their standards pretty fast; obsessive interest in and desire for women that aren’t into them just screams ‘desi’.
@walawala: “Do many women fear and resist the thing they most want—an alpha?”
occam’s razor : your perceptions are off, either
1.you’re not as ‘alpha’ as you think you are.
2. women where you are don’t want an ‘alpha’ as you define the word.
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@Ulysses
@6′ 4″ you should probably be weighing in at at 220lbs AT LEAST. You are lighter than me and i’m 5′ 10″!!
Get in the gym bro and start banging some big weights you lanky fuck.
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Tupac Chopra good advice, I started out alpha, showed softer side….more alpha, softer side…maybe she got spooked by her own feeolings along the way. I always got the idea she was keen but held back. She kept throwing various shit tests which I passed…maybe there’s a struggle for upper hand, maybe there’s a fear of the intensity of feelings, maybe there’s a combination. We were in NO CONTACT for 10 days after I pulled back. She made contact, so I opened up. Then she distanced again, back to NO CONTACT. Sound familiar? I push-pull, she push-pulls….maybe she’s gaming me, maybe it’s a lost cause. NO CONTACT is my default response to her distancing. Thoughts Tupac?
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@Boston
On 500k a year you need to find yourself a custom suit and the following:
One of these:
one of these:
call it overcompensating, but i don’t see how you can’t get any action on 500k a year. Plus these are good products, not even the most expensive in their respective markets, i’d purchase them even without the intention of using them to get chicks.
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@Boston
Oh yeah and some of this:
And that goes for the office as well, to date the sickest i have ever seen. Chicks love the yayo, just try not to get too much on the custom suit, it could easily be mistaken for a serious dandruff problem.
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walawala,
try this shit on for size
http://www.kwml.com/contemplate/assembler.php?page=welcome
it will help you frame your presentation more effectively to appeal to girls as you make snap-judgments about them. tailor your game with this analysis on the back-burner. it will help you refine your M3/VACQS/etc. process, whatever yours is.
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Tupac
Body centered meditations, therapies, crafts, etc are well worth the effort. There are many different avenues of exploration and they work synergistically. You’d expect that they make you better at sex, and they do.
Posture brings your focus to your kinesthetic awareness – where your body parts are located in space. Kinesthetic awareness can also include subtle feelings, such as “energy” moving up the spine. Meditations on these aspects of body awareness over years can make a person much better at fucking.
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This is interesting. I’m a super short guy (5’3) with a decent (but not hugely paying) job which people think is quite interesting (tv news). I’m goodlooking, go to the gym so my body is fine, good hair, but let’s face it, I’m tiny.
What I’ve found is that there are a lot of girls who preselect against short men. Many of the girls I’ve fucked have said ‘I would never usually be with someone so short.’ I’m pretty new to game, but in my pre-game career I have had success in clubs and bars, and actually not so much in other areas.
Any advice would be welcomed. i find it amusing when guys say they’re short at like 5’11 or even 5’7. From where I’m standing, that’s not short 🙂
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Tupac:
> But it’s something you have to be cognizant of throughout the whole day. Spending 15 minutes a day, or even an hour in he gym won’t “set” the new movement patterns into your neurology. You need to make it a habit of attending to these things throughout the whole day until they become second nature.
Any recommended, easy- and quick-to-read source material?
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“Where there are a lot of men, you can create the illusion of male scarcity (and thus increase your odds of successfully gaming a girl) by walking away from girls early in a conversation.”
This is bollocks. If there are a lot of men, creating an illusion of scarcity is daft. What, you walk away while she surveys who can give her some man-butter?
I’m usually in congruence with you but this is off the mark. You couldn’t hit a horse’s arse with a banjo using this type of game.
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Cannon’s Canon, thanks, seems accurate for me and a variation on the Myers Briggs personality index. I think calibration is vital to game. It’s something I do quite well, but one problem I’ve had is coming up against these attention whores who come on strong at the beginning, try to control the dynamic, then suddenly bolt and run when I maintain the frame. Any thoughts on handling those types? Is NO CONTACT the best? I read all sorts of techniques, but sometimes is it better just to walk away.
As an alpha, the idea of “giving up” or losing is abhorrent to me. But increasingly I’m reframing it to accept that perhaps “She” wasn’t able to give any more, or some such rationalization.
In one case, the woman blew hot and cold…I finally cut it off for good and now when I see her, she looks uncomfortable and avoids all eye contact. That feels good.
DP, I get shit tested a lot by women who say the exact opposite: “You’re too tall…”
I respond by saying: “Good thing for you I’ve stopped growing…” or “You’re too short, but you’re still cute…” or “Seems you forgot to grow…” or whatever else comes to mind.
I’d treat those comments of being “too short” as shit tests and think of something to throw back.
I’ve foudn that women tend to invetnt reasons why they can’t put out for you…”You’re too tall/short” is a good one because you can’t change that. So work with it.
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Hit the nail on the head with this post. Exactly! It’s the same when either a man or a woman sleeps around too much (no offense), they just become different and almost ADD by definition.
Height is a massive advantage, and it’s universal. My (six year) ex is 6’4″, with longish hair, AND is a musician, believe me when I say I learned how to master what is was to date a sought after alpha. He was checked out constantly in every country we traveled to. Women love tall guys.
For all of the less than tall guys out there, Latino women seem to love short guys.
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Ulysees, you sound like my dream man! 😉
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Doug1-
You’re in DC??
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anoukange
Nope.
Why do you ask, artist spider lady?
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God I hope you’re not the version I dated for a year until he (you!) moved. But if you are, you only seemed short until the end of the first date, cause you were awesome.
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I’m 6’3″, average-looking (about a 6), and have gotten quite a few one night stands with online dating. However, they were all 1’s, 2’s and 3’s. Whenever I message girls any better looking than that, I never get a response.
I’ve tried running day game, and it’s the same thing. The 4’s and above all give me the instant “fuck off” vibe as soon as I approach. Women sure are picky.
I’ve thought about getting muscular to make myself more attractive to chicks. Would this be a worthwhile endeavor?
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Daryl,
Getting muscular won’t help you. There is always a question of whether you should work on eliminating your weaknesses or improving your strengths. The correct answer is to work on whichever is farthest away from the norm — in your case your glaring weakness is your approach. If your looks are a 6 then working out can bring you up to a 7, but your game is currently at 2 level and you must bring it up to at least 4 (minimally acceptable game level for women 6 and up).
I’m assuming you are being realistic about your own looks here. Being 6’3″ is worth at least 1 point so that means your face is probably 4 or 5, and online that is what counts (even if you put the 6’3″ number on your profile, and even though that is not a number likely to be faked much because unlike weight it is easily estimable when you are met in person, it won’t have the impact it does in real life). So you should have on your profile page some pictures of yourself standing with other people, doing something non-dorky, to make your height more salient.
I’m also assuming your rating of the girls is accurate, but make sure your standards aren’t badly calibrated. 3’s are ugly, 2’s are hideous. A girl who is merely homely but whose appearance you can learn to like is a 4. 5’s are plain. 6’s are okay-looking and can often get hot guys by being available, 7’s will expect to get 7’s and up and male 6’s need some game to get noticed by them.
You should start out by targeting the 5’s. When you say *The 4’s and above all give me the instant “fuck off” vibe as soon as I approach. Women sure are picky.*, that is very revealing — if you are a 6 in basic appearance and you are well-dressed, 4’s and 5’s will be willing to let you speak to them and you should regard the “f off” vibe as ignorable. But your initial approach line needs to be practiced until you are comfortable — for you it should be something basic and conversational that is hard to take offense at, relevant to the particular scene you are at (since this is day game, canned lines are less appropriate). However, do be senstive to whether she is actually busy or preoccupied, if you don’t notice this that will get you a dirty look and a shields-up. Also, don’t approach directly so she can see you coming and know you are intending to speak to her — arrange without appearing to notice her that at some point you are in conversational distance, and then turn to her, smile as if you just noticed you’re standing next to a cute girl, and say your opener. (If she’s a 5 she won’t be cute but will be close enough that she’ll believe you might actually think she is.)
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Ulysses,
Your problem is similar to Daryl’s, see the advice I gave him. It sounds like it’s even more severe in your case because looks-wise he claims to be 6 and you claim to be 8 or 9. Before attempting any pickups at all you should work on basic social skills, meaning talk to everyone you can with no expectation of anything other than conversation, just so you can get more practiced at ordinary interaction. In particular you should be careful to not talk more than 50% of the time without very clear indications that the other person is interested in what you are saying.
My son has Asperger’s and has a really hard time with this — he is 21, works out all the time and is extremely well-built, is 6′ 2.5″ (I’m 6’2″ and his mom is 5’2″ so he lucked out), and is funny as well as smart, but he has no natural ability to handle nonverbal cues or natural interest in other personalities and would be hopeless at pickup attempts (which he knows himself well enough not to try). However, he’s so much better socially than he used to be that there is hope for him, he just needs a few more years in the real world.
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Polymath,
This is good advice. I think quite a few men out there have some degree of Asperger’s syndrome and don’t pick up on social cues easily. You tend you see a higher proportion of them in certain professions. My husband and a few others I know are like that and it is very difficult for them to talk to women they don’t know well. Social skills can be taught however and this is why websites like this one are invaluable.
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Polymath,
Don’t you think approaching a girl out of the blue would be extremely difficult for these types of guys? I would be intimidated to do it.
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Laura,
“Approaching a girl out of the blue” should not be more difficult than approaching any random person. Men with very low social awareness need to learn to walk before they can run, and develop their ability to talk to people in general.
Before that has reached a satisfactory state, they should not be viewing attractive girls as someone they should be trying to obtain a date with from a random social interaction–they will do much better trying to date girls they already know from some other sphere such as work, school, mutual friends, clubs, etc. (and here I mean girls who already know them well enough to be familiar with the type of personality they have, and to occasionally interact with them). Asperger’s types can do quite well with people who already are used to them, but they can’t expect someone who doesn’t already know them to be willing to get to know them for purely social reasons.
Once they are ready to actually try a pickup with a girl they’ve never met before, the “Tao of Steve” summarizes Game in a useful way. In that movie, Dex reduced Game to 3 rules: 1. Eliminate Desire 2. Demonstrate Excellence 3. Withdraw. Rule 1 comes first for a good reason — you have to not be thinking about how attractive someone is in order to have a normal interaction with them. A nerd with poor social skills can still demonstrate excellence, as long as he remembers the rule “show don’t tell”. And “withdraw” here means don’t say too much because there is too much opportunity to mess things up.
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Doug1-
Was wondering because you had mentioned American University– so that made me think you lived in DC.
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@ walawala
1. Do many women fear and resist the thing they most want—an alpha? How to overcome this, or are some women simply just not worth the effort. The advice on this blog is gold, but in the cultural context I live in, where women expect a bit of beta but then hate guys for it, seems a contradiction. I’ve lost women because of my alphaness but banged other chicks because of it.
2. Does the height, my ethnic exoticness and confidence mean you’re always overqualifying yourself?
Solutions?
1. Do you just give off a sense of alpha because of skin color? There are sterotypes and taboos that perpetuate such illusions and in the mind of a certain type of woman they could be seeking that only from you. But when push comes to shove they don’t really want you.
Who are these other chicks? how were they different?
2. What do you look like and I can tell you then what women instantly think.
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@DP
The girls that your banging probably saw you as a nice decent guy and non threat. They wanted to get laid. That’s why it worked only in clubs and bars. Everyone at those places more than likely is looking for fun. And especially if they expressed that they would “never” do this. Um…duh!
Either this or they wanted you to hook them up in entertainment or something.
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@Daryl
You are NOT a 6. Why would you be banging 1-4s? Um…duh your not all that. Your online profile must suck or something….I mean come on dude…a 1? Get out of here.
I laughed so hard.
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@ Polymath
3’s are ugly, 2’s are hideous. A girl who is merely homely but whose appearance you can learn to like is a 4. 5’s are plain. 6’s are okay-looking and can often get hot guys by being available, 7’s will expect to get 7’s and up and male 6’s need some game to get noticed by them.
I would say I am a 7 at least thanks! I was worried.
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@anoukange
so is this your ideal man? hes a lucky man
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Kaikou
I live in Asia, I’m tall, athletic, blue-eyed, accoomplished, successful, multi-lingual.
The local girls that I have been with have I believe had some more international experience and been more mature in some way either having lived abroad or studied.
In some cases the more local ones I’ve been with have had previous experience with foreigner blokes.
I think with “first-timers”, it may be intimidating. But not quite sure. In the case I refer, there was a great rapport, IOI’s etc.
I wonder if sometimes game does not always result in “success” or in some cases other factors come into play.
The one who gets away is the one I’m trying to understand.
I wonder if somehow it’s easier for chicks to be with betas they don’t need to be “on” with and can control and whether in this cultural context that makes it “easier” for them.
Definitely local guys here are hen-pecked betas.
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realist-
Not tall and lanky. Tall and broad-shouldered, well built. Lanky fingers are aesthetically pleasing though. Long bones that are formed well are nice to draw and photograph, but some meat on the bones is needed for my personal tastes.
[editor: mr miyagi say: long fingers hit g spot nice. stroke on, stroke off!]
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author/editor-
“long fingers hit g spot nice.”
-oooh yeah baby! too true.
Are you drunk? If so, please keep drinking, you are on fire today with the wit….crackin me up.
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Yup- high iq and I hate looking people in the eye. Inability to “get out of my own head” most of the time. All pretty toxic for any social interaction. I suppose the signs are there.
Thank you, polymath, for your practical advice.
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@ walawala
Since you are a white guy in an Eastern culture obviously you are in high demand. The girls will definitely flirt with you because of the exoticism but also because you are on the top of the ethic totem pole. Personally you would intrigue me as well, but whether I was just intrigued or really wanted you there is no way that I would go find a beta instead on purpose.
Notably in the Eastern culture- family is huge. If there were some pressure there then maybe you have the answer from “the one who got away”.
Anyhow you are hot and exotic definitely based on where your currently living. If you not getting the poon then well it is really, sorry honey. Get your game on!
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Kaikou, great analysis and spot on as I reflect on past game that was unsuccessful. When it worked..it really worked, but when it didn’t it often followed a familiar pattern of sudden coolness and withdrawl for no apparent reason. One day it was all cool and we’re laughing, drinking, etc…next day there’s some weirdness followed by withdrawl. Other guys in my position have remarked on this as typical game playing on the part of many women here.
I’ve been quite successful in general with women here. But since I discovered MM and Game, I’ve been trying it out in a more structured way and assessing.
It works. But when it doesn’t despite best efforts, I’m trying to understand why and what I could have done differently.
I don’t quite know why target suddenly started going south.
When I felt distancing on her part, fired off the “please no gameplaying” email suggested here. That was met with protests of “I don’t play games…” followed by more distancing rather than offers of getting closer.
Could be that she was sitting on the fence I and called her out on her waffling, maybe that produced a rush of emotions, confusion.
One aspect of “game” I”m still trying to get my head around is the whole idea of pushing buttons and calling girls out which often gets them defensive, skittish and angry. I don’t quite see sometimes how that’s part of “game”. I look at it as unsuccessful seduction.
Do we as aspiring alphas and pua’s in training want to stoke these weird mood swings of hot one day, cold the next? What the hell is that about? Despite overall success…..still confused over a few that didn’t work out.
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walawala,
If a girl is acting weird and hot-and-cold and you cannot think of anything you did wrong, you should ignore it and treat her with perfect consistency, as long as she is just being moody.
If she actually flakes on you though (breaks a commitment) that deserves an indication of your displeasure, you must discourage unreliability. Don’t dwell on it, but make one sharp remark either at the beginning of the next date (“I’m looking forward to twice as much of you tonight, to make up for last time”) or at the end of it (“That was fun — looks like I was right to give you another chance”) — smiling as you speak.
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Um…don’t tell a girl she is playing games. It’s not going to go over well especially if you haven’t banged her. Also don’t be emailing that shit, it definitely won’t go over well. Non FtF communication is always misinterpreted, then you throw in a different culture. Done.
You have to think of what is typical of the culture your in. Obviously Roissy appeals to American men, but that is American men in U.S. America.
Your on foreign soil dude. You have more leeway because of race but when in Rome be Roman.
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Thanks Kaikou, live and learn. Game is fascinating for me because while I had been successful with women in the past, I didn’t have a structure or awareness of each of the various steps.
That sms did surface the issue. Interestingly, I’d used it on other girls who’d also been waffling and flaked a few times, and it had prompted them to actually apologize and reach out. In one case, I was banged by someone who’d been flaking regularly until I sent that.
That one specifically brought that up later saying it made her realize she should have been more up front with me and hadn’t realized how her skittish behaviour was being perceived by me (or so she said…)
Interesting, SMS, Text, IM is a more common form of communication where I am.
Polymath at what point do you simply withdraw/NO CONTACT? Any experience to share?
Now that I’m more self-aware, I want to avoid beta-backsliding or any perception of neediness. When girls blow hot and cold, my self-doubt kicks in.
Culturally, regardless of the societal norms, I’ve found that when women here are intersted, they show it, but there is a huge group that blow hot and cold and play power games of trying to get upper hand and that results in situations like the one I’m now experiencing.
If they do put up walls, there is usually as Kaikou suggests some familial, or peer pressure involved. That I don’t know how to overcome.
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walawala,
If you are getting push-pull, be a rock, don’t show that it is bothering you. Don’t change because of her whims. If, however, you are getting push-push-push with no pull then “no contact” is a good way to reboot. 3 messages from you in a row with no response is the most you should tolerate, wait at least 1 month before initiating any more contact (if she had any interest she’ll probably contact you first, but give her 1 more low-key buzz after 1 month in case the reason she stopped answering was something that didn’t have to do with you, that way if she feels embarrassed to recontact you you give her a chance).
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kaikou,
Some girls know they are playing games and respect men for calling them on it; others, with less self-awareness or stronger moods, really don’t know how they are coming across, and may need to be told, not that they are playing games, but that specific actions they took are unacceptable.
If it isn’t something specific such as breaking a date or public disrespect, but is just hot-n-cold drama that they do unconsciously, then I agree that criticism is counterproductive and the right treatment is to ignore the swings.
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Thanks Polymath and Kaikou, all very helpful.
Hardest thing is to keep cool and keep from lashing out or saying something that comes off as bitter.
I think since learning game I’ve learned that it’s better to say less.
During the NO CONTACT phase when there seems to be a Cold War going on, there’s a temptation to initiate contact fearing the target has forgotten me.
I can’t think of a single time where initiating contact on my part has resulted in anything successful. It’s always backfired or made me seem weak or needy or given up my power.
A learning is that women want to feel like they’ve “won” something when they get you back so they’re willing to reach out if it’s important to them.
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Social circle game (10 people or less) beats large groups anytime, of course. This is well-known.
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hey polymath,
i’d like to get your opinion on the “fermi paradox”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermi_paradox
just in “best guess” terms. i’m interested where you fall. how does your thought experiment play out?
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Al – unless you’re in the UK I’m sure we haven’t dated 🙂 Also I haven’t moved from London in quite some time. Although I’ve heard that ‘I don’t notice you’re short’ comment many times. Guess I must be awesome 🙂
There is a great deal of social stigma attached to being short, imo. I do remember seeing a study that correlated income with a man’s height and negatively with a woman’s weight. You can be as short a woman and as fat a man though without it affecting your income.
Walawala – I can pretty much deal with a shit test. I suppose it’s more that I think that some women are definitely not interested in a guy who is four inches shorter than them (plus heels!). Interested in a true female perspective on this. I know what women will *say* (oh it doesn’t matter), but what do they think?
And re: Tao of Steve – took that as my guide for women. Be Desireless. Demonstrate Excellence. Women Pursue That Which Retreats From Them. Worked for me.
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May I politely interject a little exclamatory comment? Bullshit!
Were you aware that women get turned on by men’s forceful passion, to the degree that they are unable to differentiate his passion from their own? Rape fantasies are the extreme example, but it works in more subtle ways.
If you are a fire type of personality, it’s best to use your passion as your strength, rather than to bury it as if it were a weakness. Fire personalities can burn with a contained glow that they unleash in opportune moments to engulf and overwhelm their willing victims.
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Very usefull post. A few questions though, in what category does online dating fall? For what kind of men is that a good option?
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xsplat – what exactly are you objecting to? I’d say that forceful passion is all very well, but probably best segued into rather than used from the start, especially for those of us who aren’t six foot tall and built like the proverbial brick shithouse.
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Larster – men who are good at expressing themselves in writing, and are willing to put the effort in to play the numbers by themselves rather than in social situations?
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DP,
xsplat is right that in some situations a forceful approach works very well, and you don’t have to be six feet tall and built either (xsplat describes himself as short and unhandsome). The Tao of Steve is a good guide for ordinary pickup situations in the USA but advanced practitioners of game will, with experience, learn to identify situations when an overwhelming frontal assault is best.
As a chess master, I can tell you that practical players don’t care about winning in the shortest or the most elegant or the most brutal or the least difficult way. Depending on the position (and, in borderline cases, the opponent’s skill), the right move may be to go for an immediate mate, to accumulate material, to maximize positional pressure, or to convert the position to a technical endgame, and this decision should be based on which way gives the SUREST win in the particular case. (If the position is too complicated for you to understand in this way, then the plan should be to keep your options open and avoid mistakes).
A grandmaster like Roissy (er, Chateau) tailors his approach to the situation and can play almost any position well. xsplat is like a chess master who specializes in mating attacks, and knows enough to pick appropriate targets on whom his style works well. The Tao of Steve is a good general strategy that succeeds against most opposition and can bring your game to expert level, but eventually you have to refine your style to fit your own strengths and weaknesses.
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ah no, though whew. The sexy cameraman I was lucky enough to run around with for awhile was all American and ditched me for greener career prospects.
Or so he said.
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Cannon’s Canon,
The Fermi Paradox is not paradoxical if you believe interstellar travel is extremely expensive and slow, which according to current physics it must be. Even if there is a Galactic Civilization, they will tend to stick to their own planets and communicate by something like radio — there will no doubt be probes exploring other star systems, but no reason to believe our system would be likely to get visited by one in any given millennium. Our own emissions would have started to inform other star systems about us in the 1930’s, and I can imagine that if there is an outpost within 80 light years of us they are now debating whether to worry about us or contact us, but it’s not surprising that we haven’t heard back yet.
One other possible explanation is that intelligent life is exceedingly unlikely. Since evolution seems pretty powerful, if we discover life on Mars this explanation will be disconfirmed (which suggests that the Great Filter may operate AFTER our current stage rather than before it, in which case we have a problem).
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Polymath,
Thank you for that clear elucidation – I’m currently debating whether to dip my toe in the pickup waters – my concern is that I feel I have a fulfilling life currently and that it will take up a considerable amount of my time. I think the lifestyle benefits might well be worth it, though…
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Polymath
I’ve already resigned myself to the fact that technological progress in the hands of evolved organisms inevitably leads to a technological arms race that extinguishes the evolved organisms. Mix darwin together with robots, and you get fighting robots. Fighting robots who get better and better until they “win”. And after they win pick new fights. Biological warfare, microbiological warfare, nanotech warfare, robot warfare, and warfare with big booms. Ever increasing technology can’t be handled in a sustainable and stable way.
Did you know that biological weapons that target specific genes can be created in your garage?
It is possible with current technology to target all blacks with a virus and have them produce babies with higher than white IQ levels. Or to wipe out all chinese. Or to make all females constantly horny. Etc, etc.
There is no way in hell that we can control the mad scientists amongst us. That’s your Fermi paradox, right there.
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Dude, did you moderate my comment just because I disagreed? Shit man. Ugly dudes don’t get no love.
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“Ulysses
@ Tupac- mild asbergers maybe? Or is that just a fancy way of saying social retarded, With zero confidence?
it’s like I was born with that lobe missing. Childhood stuff didn’t help, but nothing people haven’t dealt with before.
A freaking mystery.”
Rule #1: Treat yourself with respect.
Rule #2: Keep her guessing.
Rule #3: Don’t be mean.
That right there is enough “Game” to make a world of difference for many men.
Re: “childhood stuff”- if you were trained to be a doormat, you must grieve the death of the old self. Spend some time thinking about what kind of life you want and then “identify with” that.
“Tupac
Spending 15 minutes a day, or even an hour in he gym won’t “set” the new movement patterns into your neurology. You need to make it a habit of attending to these things throughout the whole day until they become second nature.”
Make sure to do seated cable row (or bent over row) to hit the muscles in center of back (that pull your shoulder blades together), and shrugs (head up!) to avoid unconscious slouch. Not just “mirror muscles”.
Re: T-nation
If you haven’t read “The Perfect Rep” yet, I strongly recommend it. F = MA (have you been leaving out the acceleration part of the equation?), never grind one more rep.
http://www.tmuscle.com/free_online_program/sports_body_training_muscle_anaconda/anaconda_protocol#the-perfect-rep
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Whoops, sorry, I guess not.
My basic point was just that ugly dudes should absolutely be out there competing against tall pretty boys.
If a guy isn’t goodlooking (and I’m not, so I’m speaking from experience) he’s got to sharpen his sense of style and grooming, but the main thing he needs to do is to learn to carry himself like a confident man.
Nothing gives you better masculine confidence and leaves behind the years of being beta than knowing that you can go up against good looking guys with half a foot of height on you, and you still end up taking the girl home.
Knowing this changes everything for the average looking guy.
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I think Polymaths exegesis of the intent of what I said was kind and accurate.
My objection was not that the advise to not come on too strong is wrong, rather I was trying to point out that we each, as individuals, must work with what moves us. We have our inner inspiration, and in order to inspire the woman, we must inflame in her a passion for our inner inspiration. Rather than create this inspiration out of whole cloth, we work with our innate talents and passions and predispositions.
So if you are a person who is oriented around passion and libido, that can work in your favor. Of course you can never escalate too much for too long when the woman clearly isn’t receptive. But that doesn’t mean either that you need to extinguish or even bury your desire. Desire is the seducers friend – nothing to be embarassed by.
I’d imagine there are other things other people are oriented around that work to inspire women. Passion is what I know best and what I do best so that’s what I talk about.
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I’m somewhere around 6’3″-6’4″, and I get approached all of the time. However, I will say that height only matters up until you open your mouth. I have about 5-6 friends who are taller than me and almost never get laid. And three of these guys were also blessed with really good looks. Women approach them, and within a few minutes, they walk away.
[editor: this is what i have observed. a tall good-looking man with poor game or beta mannerisms will get blown out almost immediately when he opens his mouth or walks over with uncertainty, while less physically impressive men with confidence and game will work those same women into a heady froth of pussy juice.]
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[…] – “The State + Women = Boot Stamping on a Beta Face“, “It May Be Better to Game in Small Groups“, “Ass Saving and Wife […]
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I’m a tall guy (6’3) and since I put the effort into my looks, style and have been going to the gym regularly since 4 years it has hugely paid off…yes game helps a lot but investing in your physique and outward appearance and style is as important in my opinion.
ps: always seek shoes with some element of heels in them that boost your height. women cheat with that all the time.
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valmont,
If your game is at least average, then effort to raise your looks, style, and physique will pay off. The rewards are much larger if you can go from an 8 to a 9 than from a 6 to a 7. But if your game is weak, then the biggest impact per unit of effort will be to work on your game.
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“The Tao of Steve” is entertaining, but take it with a grain of salt as any kind of game resource. The director and two-thirds of the screenwriting team were women, and the main character gets beta-ized by the end of the movie.
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