Over at Mexican Annexation, T. “cheap chalupas uber alles” Cowen has a theory on the dating market for men in Washington DC:
I think it’s better to date here if you are male. Government attracts a disproportionate share of intelligent women. I’ve never lived in New York, but there are so many celebrities, billionaires. If you are a guy in New York, there’s always another guy that crushes you on the scale. Here, there are all these politicians but they are really out of commission for the most part — or if they fool around, it’s with interns. You don’t have to compete with them. The people who are really high status are off the market. As a male in Washington, you can be high in status fairly easily without the true very high status competing. In New York or L.A., there are movie stars and directors. Even if a woman can’t be with a movie star, women can still say, ‘Gee, this guy or that guy is not a movie star or a director.’ There’s lobbyists and lawyers here, a lot of them. You can be more interesting than that. This is a great place to live.
Allow me to add my more correct thoughts.
1. Government attracts a disproportionate share of *credentialed* women. While intelligence and credentials are correlated, they aren’t the same. Some of the most boring women I have ever met were multi-degreed widgets freshly pressed off the academia soulsucking assembly line. Some of the sassiest and funniest women I have ever met never had the luck to pay off a crushing student loan debt. And let’s cut the crap about smart women — most men measure a woman’s dating market worth by her looks, her feminine personality, and her willingness to experiment sexually in bed. Her smarts comes in a distant — waaaaay distant — fourth place. There is a place for female smarts, but that place is at an easy to reach lower bound of IQ where she isn’t so much dumber than the man she is with that he finds it insufferable to deal with her continually not getting his jokes and cultural references. Generally, the men who wax eloquent about the romantic charms of female intelligence are nerdos who have an incentive to pump up the one redeeming quality of womankind they can afford to bargain for.
2. NYC is a good example of what happens when a male-favorable sex ratio smashes up against a female-favorable hypergamous culture — the latter usually wins. There are more fertile-age women in NYC than in other cities, but the few male super alphas operate essentially Sultan of Brunei-like harems. Nonetheless, New York is still pretty good for the average man who can survive there, because there are so many cute chicks from which to choose. Betas may have to tolerate banging 7s disappointed they aren’t going to be the next Mrs. Hedge Fund Guy, but on the bright side for them, it beats self-beating.
3. Nobody who is high status is “off the market”. Even marriage is no escape from the sexual market. The divorce revolution is a lagging indicator of this reality. If there’s something to be said for betas wondering about the playing field in DC, it’s that the behavior of conventional alphas there is more constrained by political necessity. There’s a higher price to be paid for a politician caught with two mistresses than for a stockbroker or business owner.
4. Senor Cowen exaggerates the hypergamous calculating of women in NY and LA. There are only a relative handful of movie stars in LA. Most women are not so blinkered to think that sitting out their dating lives in celibacy for years while waiting for a shot at that 0.001% of the local “authentic” alpha male population is an acceptable lifestyle. If you are a man with game — i.e. you have an understanding of psychosocial dominance and how to apply it — you will get laid with hot girls in LA, even those of the monomaniacal actor- and director-chasing variety. Especially with those if you are a skilled liar.
5. I agree that the conventional alphas with pull in DC tend to be boring, and that it is a simple matter to project a more interesting personality in comparison. The guys I used to know in DC who did best with women were, respectively, a bartender, a bike messenger, a real estate agent, a lawyer, and a technical writer. Only the lawyer was what women would describe as a traditional, high status alpha. What did they have in common? Unstoppable confidence. Charm. Balls. There ya go.
6. The widely-cited female skewed sex ratio of DC is a myth. This website neatly explains why. Only if you count all women between the ages of 20 and 64 does DC have a large surplus of women. But what man who isn’t a total loser wants to date a woman who made splat with the wall decades ago? Change the slider on the map to cover the age range of singles from 20 – 39, the years for which women still retain rapidly declining sexual marketability, and you’ll see that every major city in America except for Springfield, MA (5 extra women per 1,000 people) has a surplus of single men. No wonder most bars look like this. However, in DC’s defense, its male surplus isn’t as bad as the male surplus in most big cities.
7. DC girls are not ugly. There are plenty of cute chicks, and even some beautiful ones, gallivanting through the halls of trendy lounges and shamtastic art shows. They might not be as beautiful on average as NY or LA girls, but they can hold their own versus girls in Chicago, Houston, and Seattle. And don’t get me started on Portland girls. Ugh.
8. The best looking women won’t be found in America. For that, you’ll have to travel to Tallinn or Kiev.

First!
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That’s interesting. I am surprised San Francisco does not have more female surplus as I heard it is such a good market for men.
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If you’re not an physically good looking guy, don’t hit on chicks @ gay bars.
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GNP Peter’s over at Cowen’s blog making everyone vomit.
The real question is how soon Cowen makes his way over here (I posted a link) and denounces Roissy as evil.
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Ohh yea, i agree the most beautiful women are from Tallinn.
And i am no exception.
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Kiev is the place. Its like a supermodel convention The beer and food are good too.
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Haha, I did a huge double take when I clicked the “dick farm” link and saw myself in the photo, right at the front, in the gray shirt. And I’m the only one in it with a girl. Gotta love McFaddens!
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Lady Gaga’s advice to Greyson Chance during Ellen: “stay away from girls”
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A description from a woman about being in the presence of a very dominant alpha male:
“But very occasionally (about once a decade) I have found myself intensely affected by the mere presence of a particular man – so intensely affected that it has taken every ounce of self-control to appear unmoved.
The effect is extreme, both physically and psychologically. Primal. Overwhelming. It feels as though the man has godlike power – the power of a man; masculine power. You feel totally held by this power. The desire to be taken by the man is so intense that it is frightening. It can be difficult to breathe, or difficult to remain standing, let alone maintain a conversation. Bone dry mouth, zero appetite, heart all over the place, the fear that you might faint, shaking like a leaf, body positively screaming to be taken, a reckless willingness and primal desire to do whatever that man wants. The masculine power of the man – you feel that power with every fibre of your being. Melting in a white-hot inferno of desire, out of your senses, so far out of control psychologically that you can’t even imagine being in control, totally in his power. You feel owned by the man, totally his, totally submissive.”
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That map Roissy links to shows why, as much as we here may hyperventilate about how the current regime hurts women too, women aren’t actually suffering that many consequences for their folly on the dating market. Sure being a pump and dump victim isn’t very pleasant and alpha chasing doesn’t do much for your character either, but in this market women really can play the field pretty much as long as they want and still find someone relatively decent to settle down with. It’s only those women who are even more hyper-picky than most or chicks who bear multiple bastard children who will end up alone. Unless women make absurdly egregious decisions in their love life, they basically face only minor consequences for their bad decisions. There are so many men out there that, no, women don’t need to settle down in their early to mid 20s to get (close to) maximum value out of their looks on the marriage market. You pretty much have to have gotten really fat or completely hit the wall in order to lose market value. And we wonder why North American women are so arrogant.
Speaking of hyper-picky women with bastard children, here is Megan McArdle’s take on Lori Gottleib here. (Gottleib is the hyper-picky with a bastard one.)
[editor: the increasing rates of later marriage, divorce, spinsterhood, later childbirths, and bastardy suggest that women are indeed giving up their goal of settling down with an acceptable partner, or are settling for less than what they could have gotten when they were younger and having fewer kids to show for it.
i’m always amused by older women claiming they didn’t have to settle when they got married in their 30s. as if they would be a source of unbiased information. usually when you examine their prized alphas in more detail, you discover they aren’t quite the catches these aging feminist broads claim they are.]
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One does not live in Portland for the women. The Portland women are into the alternative, hipster look. Even the women in Vancouver, WA are better looking than those in downtown Portland.
One lives in Portland for the natural beauty and mild climate.
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I was sort of expecting something even crasser in reply when I originally read Tyler’s article 😉
As European, it is always dumbfounding just how few good looking women there are in the US (that includes DC and Northern VA where I spent quite some time) but Manhattan is decent enough – after hitting Manhattan the first time, I was sure they just siphon away all the pretty girls leaving the rest of the country with a drought.
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Interesting. I moved to DC from NYC about a year and a half ago, so I have some perspective. And the most succinct way for me to put my point is that DC finally brought me to a place where I had to admit to myself that I needed to learn game. Maybe I’m looking in all the wrong places, but my perception is that there are fewer cute girls per man here than in NYC or other big US cities. Here are my thoughts, at least some of which are probably correct:
1. Girls in DC have a serious weight problem. I don’t know what the hell is up with this, but I’ve never seen so many chunky women per square mile (the famous CWPSQM index) as I have here. It wouldn’t even be so bad if they would dress appropriately and stop carrying themselves as though they’re several points higher on the scale than they are, but, well, you’ve observed their behavior, too, so you know the drill.
2. DC attracts a lot of women who have been pressing the “execute” button on their life plans since they were 8 years old, and by the time they hit their late 20’s The Plan calls for them to find a husband. For this purpose, such conventionally-minded women generally want either a beta provider or a conventionally handsome, ex-quarterback type, which I’m guessing most guys who frequent this site either don’t want to be or can’t be, respectively. What’s more, such women aren’t as free with themselves as other types, so getting them to reconsider or cheat is harder.
3. NYC spoils you in that there are a lot of women there who are both interesting and attractive. DC sticks you with the same problem you had in high school: the pretty girls are boring and the interesting girls are fat/busted/both. Roissy is right that boners don’t live and die by female intelligence, but it is a factor in attraction for most smart guys. I’d still happily bone a hot, stupid DC sorority chick; however, there’s another issue: one’s own congruence with the market. I’m not tall and I’m not Brad Pitt, but I’m intellectual, witty, and cultured, and I definitely play better in New York where women are more open to being attracted to that type of man. Nor do I have a problem with this – it’s just reality.
4. The very fact that people in DC are less sophisticated and less socially fluent than people in New York means that they are driven by the resulting insecurity to be more conformist in their attempt to establish status. This plays out in different ways with different demographics, but with attractive young women it means that any girl is that much less willing to break the mold and date a guy who doesn’t fit the typical DC-chick criteria outlined above. New York people are just as status-driven; the different is that in NY status can sometimes be established through edgy disconformity. A lot of pretty girls in New York, especially the artsy hipster types, are looking to prove how “deep” they are by dating interesting guys who aren’t necessarily great-looking.
Hey, maybe it’s me. Maybe I need to step up my game, or maybe I’m looking in the wrong places. I live in Dupont, which is really gay, so I should try my luck in other parts of town before I write DC off. However, the comparison with NY points up some realities that guys who live here or who are thinking of moving here should bear in mind.
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El Gringo Loco, yes, this. Even same experience with having to learn game and seeing peacocking PUA’s in “funky hats” . I’m not even sure it’s about some politician thing, I found Dallas and Atlanta to be pretty similar. DC perhaps is just more South/Midwest cornfed place than North East like NYC/NJ/Boston/Philly. Mixed feelings about San Francisco, place that I truly love… Club scene isn’t that bad, but overall the area is a huge, huge dick fest. When I first moved from there to the East Coast, it felt like pussy galore 🙂
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Roissy and friends,
I’ve been offered a choice of jobs in LA and NYC. They’re paying for relocation, the pay is the same, ceteris paribus and all that. I have old friends and family in both.
Which would you recommend for building and maintaining my own harem?
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San Francisco has a large gay male population. Take out the gay males, and straight men outnumber straight women.
Oh, and of the straight male population, most are tech geeks. This ain’t the dot-com boom; these guys aren’t millionaires; so women aren’t interested in engineers/code monkeys/gamers.
The straight men do not take care of themselves. I am constantly asked if I am gay. This is because I have a nice gym body. Never in my life have so many women given me IOIs about my looks.
A heterosexual male who has good style and lifts weights can clean up in S.F.
The cons are that S.F. women tend to be chunkier than most city girls. Even young girls have “sausage arms” – i.e., they lack the triceps development, and thus their upper arms are a uniform size. Ordinarily a woman doesn’t lose her tricep development until mid-30s. In fact, the lack of tricep development is a sure “tell” of a woman’s age.
Oddly, the mid-30s chicks actually look better than the younger chicks. Women who hit the wall start exercising, and thus have pretty fit bodies. The trade-offs are….the issues mid-30s women have been discussed here often enough.
I personally find women in their 30s to be attractive – especially the Yoga, Pilates, and gym bunnies. They like to have sex on the first meeting. It’s great.
Straight men in San Francisco rule the dating market. Google Peter Pan Syndrome. “San Francisco men won’t grow up – which means marry me! Give me babies!”
In S.F., you can live with roommates in yours 30s, and while women don’t like it, it won’t be an issue. Don’t have a car? No problem. She’ll drive you around.
I have a high status job, but deliberately lie to women about what I do as a field experiment. Late-20s women are so hard-up for a good-looking straight man, that they don’t GAF about what you do. They will buy you drinks. It’s amazing.
San Francisco is highly recommended for the a straight male with a good body and fashion sense. The downside is there are fewer hot women. There are more than enough hot women to make it worth your while.
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“And let’s cut the crap about smart women — most men measure a woman’s dating market worth by her looks, her feminine personality, and her willingness to experiment sexually in bed. Her smarts comes in a distant – waaaaay distant — fourth place. There is a place for female smarts, but that place is at an easy to reach lower bound of IQ where she isn’t so much dumber than the man she is with that he finds it insufferable to deal with her continually not getting his jokes and cultural references.”
I’ve always said I was attracted to intelligent girls, but when Roissy breaks it down like this, I realize this is basically exactly how I feel.
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@ El Gringo
You can go ahead and write DC off right now. The difference between the swamp and NYC is vast and insurmountable when it comes to the quality and variety in the respective female mating markets.
I will give DC one nod. If present trends continue it should improve. The population growth in the area has been unprecedented with the non-stop expansion of the Federal government and more and more people are moving into the District. But the fact remains that DC is a small city surrounded by a large, congested and very boring suburban expanse.
The type of women in the city, as you note, are also by and large, snoozers. Lawyer cunts galore (the highest concentration of any city in the country, and probably Christendom). Starry eyed, non-profit trust babies. Government employees. Soulless lobbyists. Hackneyed journalists. All of the above are boner killers should the conversation stray to work at some point or other.
My advice to you, if you want a fun night and can’t get back to NYC, is to head up to Baltimore. The women are not as good looking as DC, on the whole. But the place is much more real and, provided you hit the right spot, you are bound to have a much better time gaming women than in the swamp.
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MacGinty’s in Silver Spring, Friday night…when did the frigid fifties group migrate from the bingo parlor?! Seriously, I had fleeting thoughts of sucking on a 60 yo tit giving powdered milk!
Last night, 18th Street Lounge had a roughly equal ratio of very doable women, but no one that you just had to have.
Now, at Front Page, some woman flashed her tits outside the place. Her tits were 10, but her face was a 5. The only way you could make love to her is if you pulled her shirt over her face.
DC seems to attract the dwarfs of hotness. That is, most are 5’2″ or under. No offense to you guys who are the perfect height for 5’2″, eyes of blue, choochi, choochi, choochi,coo. But, as a larger than average guy, they are too small.
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Kiev FTW. I am in Kiev right now (lived here years ago) and everything you have heard is true. Just walking down the street puts a smile on my face.
DC isn’t as bad as all that – you have to know where to go and which types to avoid. Not every government worker or NGO type is a cunty lawyer – they do exist but the stereotype is a little overstated.
Go to the Hill for younger, less stuck-up, less inhibited females. It’s a totally different culture up there than in the professional GS-1X or law firm worlds. Much more open and less credential-focused. Better looking and more feminie as well. Go to any one of those bars some weekend on the House side and you’ll see what I mean.
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I meant weeknight, not weekend – the happy hours all take place then. Hill people usually stay away from the usual places on the weekends.
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“If you are a man with game — i.e. you have an understanding of psychosocial dominance and how to apply it — you will get laid with hot girls in LA, even those of the monomaniacal actor- and director-chasing variety. Especially with those if you are a skilled liar.”
Hold up.
I “cut my teeth” in LA.
LA is not a very easy place to game hot girls (8+).
Yes, there are a lot of hot bitches at the trendy bars/clubs/lounges in LA.
Yes, they do respond to game, but at the same time the # of stuck-up hot bitches in LA is through the roof.
In LA, having a nice car, being in good shape and dressing well are more important to the pick-up than in other “friendlier” places.
There is a reason that the first season of the show “The Pickup Artist” was held in Austin, TX (and the 2nd season in Pheonix, AZ), and not in LA.
I am sure the TV producers pitched to Mystery, “Hey, lets hold the show right here in LA!”
At which point Mystery probably said, scratching his chin & thinking about the scene in LA, “Uh…hm…how about let’s not.”
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“And let’s cut the crap about smart women — most men measure a woman’s dating market worth by her looks, her feminine personality, and her willingness to experiment sexually in bed. Her smarts comes in a distant – waaaaay distant — fourth place. There is a place for female smarts, but that place is at an easy to reach lower bound of IQ where she isn’t so much dumber than the man she is with that he finds it insufferable to deal with her continually not getting his jokes and cultural references.”
Guys do not want knowledgewise intelligent women. We want women who are able to grasp the concept of, and possess the knowledge of how to be an attractive woman.
For example, body-wise Britney Spears(when not fattened up by redneck living) and Selma Hayek(from 10 years ago) are both smoking hot. But, when they open their mouths, Britney loses a lot of points because she is dumb as a brick that was held back in school and has to ride the short bus while the other junior high bricks point and laugh…and never earns a merit badge for coloring within the lines and has to be watched constantly so it doesn’t eat the glue.
But, Selma, when she opens her mouth, her Latina accent, with conversation that focuses on her hotness, adds to her points.
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“And don’t get me started on Portland girls. Ugh.”
i have a different experience with portland: my band and i would always look forward to a gig in portland. this was probably close to seven years ago, we did a few north west van tours and the first time in PDX, we got there early from seattle the night before. we had the whole day to kill….of course we went to the strip bars. the thing is in PDX the strip clubs we went to were more like dive bars with naked girls dancing: no pressure for lap dances, chessy djs or overpriced cocktails. the dancers were usually “normal” down to earth girls (21-27 yrs – HB 7-8s) that just liked to party. we would drink all day with them at work, they would come to our show that evening with all their friends (this made the band look good to the clubs promoter) and then after our set we would go back to their rented victorian house and continue the debachery. ill never forget my first PDX night: i fucked a young librarian, rose mcgowen-esque looking chic named cricket after i did blow off the small of her back. true story.
“The Portland women are into the alternative, hipster look.”
guilty.
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Smarts – raw IQ, life experience, and street – definitely matter to me. Looks matter, but I do not have the patience to game chicks from the Marina District in S.F. I didn’t like talking to college chicks when in college; so I sure can’t talk to them now.
Unless the chick is at least 26, it’s not worth it. Eight hours of conversation is a looooooong time with a sorority cock slut. Older (late 20s/early 30s) women who are in shape meet my sexual needs without being too annoying. It’s a balance.
I’ll take a 7 with some smarts and a personality over the Marina’s yummy-looking, young sluts.
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8. The best looking women won’t be found in America. For that, you’ll have to travel to Tallinn or Kiev.
I’d like to see US/UK-Axis 20-30 yr old women side-by-side vs. East Bloc girls…WITHOUT MAKEUP.
Who would win that horse show, the west or the east?
— Makeup is a DISGUISE
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LA is not a very easy place to game hot girls (8+).
Without cocaine, it’s basically impossible.
With cocaine, it’s not just possible – but effortless.
To survive in L.A. dating market, you need (in order of importance): cocaine, BMW, looks. With coke and a BMW, you can be a 6 and bang 8s.
Otherwise, game or not, a 6 isn’t going to pull an 8.
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lzozlzlozlzlzl!!
anyone wanna guess what city i live in and what i do for a living??
zlozozlzozlz zlzozlzlzozllzlzzlzozlzlz zozlzlzolozlzozozozzllz
i have advanced degrees but i don’t really use them lzkozlzlzlz zzlzloz zlzlzozoz omg ozlzoz
well actually i do but not where and when you’d think lzozlzlzoz lzolzlzl
i have banged so many hotties that truth be told a funny thing has happened to me
i fell bad for chix like i know that i could bang them but i would rather get a good night sleep and have them get their souls back lzozlzlozozl lzozlzzlzl
“go forth and sin no more” syays i.
oh i know they will go on to bang bikers and bartenders if i pass them up but hey good for the banker bartender lzozlzlzlzl maybe they’ll get them 2 do them in the ass like they’re now and then asking me 2 do lzozllz omg lzozlzlzlzl lzozozlozoomg but i pass it up lzozlzl ozlzozoz omg lzozlzl
really once you’ve seen sooooo many ginas and heard so many horror stories of sore anuses and crabs and seen so many pussies shaved bald and and so many piercings well lzozllzzozlzll lzozlzl
omg like hwn you are going down on a nice girl and as you go down there’s a tatto ok cool well and then shaved liked a porn star lzzozlzllz and then a pierced clit well by and by you get the feeling that you just might not be the first man down there and you get to thinking lzozlzlz if you forgot to take the bernanke-prescribed ritalin that that click you are licking has had all sorts of cocks touching it and then you get to thking how even though cocks never touch a urinal you wouldn’t kiss it and how even if you saw an open bottle of coke on a restaurant table and you could be bretty sure that no cocks had touched it, no way in hell would you drink form it but there yyuou are getting your face shellacked in steamy gooey pussy juice where many cocks have been in and out in and out and god knows what is living and breeding in that pussy juice and lzozlzlzozozozl i go hey i gotta go home and gets some sleep lzozlzlzl .
so i pass her on to you guys as you are more the man than i am and i’ll be at home reaidng my great books and classics lzozlzlz hwile you’re swimming upstream in a pussy swamp which my cock and roissy’s cock and many many a cock blazed and conquered before lzozlzlzozlozlzlz.
anywho i recommend that all you dudes keep a snorkel and fins and self contained breathing apparatus under your bed for going down on DC chixkxkxkx, as well as a map and compass 2 find your way back, and maybe a spppool of silk like the one thesues used to find his way out of teh laybirthinth which you would know about if you’d read the greek myth like i’s did lzozllz zlzozlzl omg ozlzlzoz
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Challenge –
If I were in your shoes, I would pick L.A. My reasons would be:
– Better climate
– More affordable (relative to NYC; especially after the real estate bubble bursting)
– A higher concentration of 9s/10s than anywhere else in the world (especially around the Studio City area)
I visited both cities frequently (on work assignments) over the years; even though I have never lived fulltime in either.
There is something about the sunshine and the beautiful people in LA, that puts a smile on your face the minute you drive out of the airport.
Also, where else are you going to enjoy outdoors seating in restaurants, cafes, and even outside friggin Starbucks, in mid-February?
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Take a look at this:
Kathie Lee and Hoda go makeup-free on ‘Today’
Kathie Lee and Hoda go makeup-free on ‘Today’
Photo
This IS how women really look without their disguise. No wonder middle-aged women want to make teenage girls off limits!!!!
— Makeup is a DISGUISE
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Photo:
http://tinyurl.com/274xg83
– Makeup is a DISGUISE
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lzozlzlzozlz zlzozlzozzlozlzozozzl
the hotter the city and the more 10s the skankier the chix and the more chix with dix
small college towns have just as many hotties totties as la lzozlzlzlzllz and less fake boobs
you getz what us pays for lzozlzlzozl
and that is hilarious that some of you looooozers need coke to score with chix so what lozlzozzlzlzlzlz loooozers lzozlzl
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Don’t know about Portland, but in Vancouver there are a lot of what are called granola girls. Basically, outdoorsy types who wear cargo pants and no make-up. On the upside they are usually quite fit.
———————————-
there aren’t a lot, just the usual amount of granola girls in those parts. thursday, if you live in vancouver i suggest you visit the kits area. lots of roissy type chickies in that area. and the men are buff buff boooofffff!!!
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“Without cocaine, it’s basically impossible.
With cocaine, it’s not just possible – but effortless.
To survive in L.A. dating market, you need (in order of importance): cocaine, BMW, looks. With coke and a BMW, you can be a 6 and bang 8s.
Otherwise, game or not, a 6 isn’t going to pull an 8.”
Well said, sir, well said.
I salute you.
Never underestimate the power of having several grams of coke at your disposal.
Too many of my friends come to LA and see 9s & 10s and think: Alright, I gonna be banging models!
In the back of my mind I always think: Only if you have a good coke supply and drive a Porsche.
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several grams?
you’ll need an ounce of that flake.
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Makeup… Eastern euro girls will run circles around anglo. The thing with typical anglo girls, they basically don’t have game either. How they dress, posture, body language, how they generally carry themselves, replace her pussy with a dong and there you have it, yet another beta shlub. Good thing I’m not picky and actually find it kinda cute (exotic :))
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Citizen Renegade takes smart-enough women for granted.
Here in flyover country, you’re lucky if they are functionally literate.
Here, smart by woman standards = “I can read statistics off a Power Point slide.” “When I see the ‘%’ sign, I know to say the word ‘percent.'” “As a dental hygienist, I can get health insurance for my husband. Do you need some handyman work? He’s pretty good at that.”
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That age- and population density-adjusted chart is eye-opening. Once I learned a little game and hit my mid-30s, it seemed to me that single women greatly outnumbered single men. Turns out that’s true only in the over-40 age bracket.
Yet, every single woman in her 20s and 30s in NYC bemoans the lack of single men. Further proof that women only see alphas.
Though a couple of caveats:
1. When pressed, women concede there are desirable single men, but complain they’re all players (a sign they’ve experienced the chaffing that comes with riding the cock carousel).
2. Lots of good looking, fit, stylish guys in NYC are gay. Female friends have told me they assume every man in Chelsea and the West Village is gay until proven otherwise.
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ATC has a fair point. I avoid Flyover America like anthrax, but my occasional forays there are terrifying. When you’re in a place where there are only strip-malls as “culture” (downtown, if there is any, is a drug-infested gangbangerz paradise) and your best option is – not kidding – Hooters … well, you, like Roxy Music, can guess the rest. The girls are young, dumb, and full of cum. If you like that kinda thing … you like that kinda thing.
I can’t stand SWPLers and their environs, but life without them can be even worse for the pussyhound. The coasts, and very few places between, suck all the non-stupid people away from the rest of the country, which is why I strongly believe that any decent city of size will have an ample supply of cute gals to pump-n-dump.
DC has its challenges, to be sure, but it’s a suitable playground for an experienced seducer. Definitely not a place to get a wife (nowhere west of Bratislava for that, trust me), but the pussy can be hella good.
Did someone say Baltimore? B-mo? I recall that place when it was all Hammerjacks, Firebirds, and shotgunning Natty Boh while Slayer blasted out the amps … no thanks, I’ve got my shots.
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Not for no reason did Tom Leykis refer to it as “Porkland.”
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One huge advantage NYC has over much of the rest of the country that skews the perception of guys and attractive single girls is fatness. The women here, though most could stand to lose a bit of fat, are considerably thinner than in most US cities I’ve been to. Houston was a horror show of cellulite. Had to go to a strip club just to make sure I was still on planet Earth and not in some fat fetish alternate universe.
So yeah, if 7 out of 10 women in the typical non-Northeast Corridor city is fat, it totally changes our perception of the odds.
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I would guess that mid-size cities of between 200 thousand and 1.5 million people in red states would probably be the best places to look for wife material. They attract a decent number of smart people and, unlike the big blue state cities, are still influenced to some degree by traditional values. (Anybody know anything about places like Nashville, Phoenix, Denver etc.? Just throwing out names here.) But, yeah, the pickings are slim in most small town and rural areas.
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ATC, Wonka, and Roissy all sort of get it. For anything longer-term than a few days, there is a minimum level of smartness a man requires, and the longer-term the relationship, the higher that level is.
That doesn’t mean men don’t differ in the disparity they can tolerate. xsplat is happy to live with women who are probably 40 IQ points below him. Since I want intellectual compatibility for an LTR, my potential pool of mates would be much smaller. It might look to an outsider intelligence is the most important feature I look for but it really acts as a filter and once beyond that filter it is just one of many factors in the attraction equation.
A man whose wife is too dumb to get his jokes is going to be susceptible to seduction by women who appreciate his mind, so he shouldn’t have expected when marrying to be able to be faithful.
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“I’ve always said I was attracted to intelligent girls, but when Roissy breaks it down like this, I realize this is basically exactly how I feel.”
So horribly true. It’s disturbing to realise that it’s not just women who spout nonsense regarding mate preferences, but we too often break down our preferences in ways that have no connection to how we actually behave. The slither of conscious control we exert in life is nothing compared to the power of unconscious biological driving forces.
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How’s the market in Toronto? Anyone got the 411?
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So DC isn’t as bad as it seems compared to other large cities?
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The lesson of the map is that the older men inherit the earth. Or at least that’s how I’ll console myself.
Philadelphia’s numbers were slightly better than D.C. Philly’s women are dumber than DC’s and not as hot as New York’s, so I get the worst of both worlds.
Springfield, MA is very close to three prominent all-women’s colleges: Smith, Mount Holyoke and Wellesley. Coincidence?
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Smart: It depends on what you mean by smart.
Dumb girl may be boring in the bedroom too, and incompetent or boring everywhere else.
Smart guy wants cleverness and imagination, not a “smart” girl who is just diligent at rote learning or who likes Proust.
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Hey Roissy – how is the book deal coming?
I was trying to recommend this site to my ex girlfriends husband, so that he can game her back into lust, as she is deathly bored with the guy by now. But he only speaks Spanish.
Why not at least package what you’ve got and release it under CC license to get the translations started?
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This post is way off this thread but since this is the current thread I posted it here. Guys (young and/stupid) cannot hear this information enuf.
“Girls like thugs [alpha males]” is a constant theme of this blog. And, women are hypocritical in the extreme is also preached.
The link below illustrates both concepts in action.
ttp://www.wbaltv.com/news/23500463/detail.html
The grieving mother is a text book illustration. Her daughter would never have spent time with this man if she knew about his record. [She met him in prison.] The grieving mother wonders how this man could have “killed his own child.”!!!
There are about 1 million abortions in this country per year, all women killing their “own” children.
So, this mother is in complete denial about the nature and behavior of her daughter and, indeed, of her own nature.
Boys, have no illusions about women. Our blog host is right on.
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Roissy,
In keeping with your “how to be a good wife candidate” post a bit back, Married Man Sex Life has a list of qualities to look for in a wife candidate:
http://www.marriedmansexlife.com/2010/03/10-critical-things-in-how-to-choose.html
He articulates a key premise. “The basic problem is that most men do not go looking for a wife. They start looking for a date, and then try and turn the date into more dates, then the dates into a girlfriend, then a girlfriend into a relationship, and then and only then worry about whether or not to bridge the relationship into marriage. Of course by then you may be realizing you’ve been backing the wrong horse as what was great for a few dates (that would be tits, ass and easy pussy) isn’t the best or only thing for a lifetime together.”
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MMSL also claims he and his wife have “kept at it” to the tune of over 300 “encounters” per year for close to a decade.
My first reaction: party on.
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Polymath
I was forced into adjusting with an unsatisfactory level of communication, by living in cultures where women’s minds are not developed. It was not an easy adjustment.
Like you, I won’t seriously date anyone who I can’t make laugh. But i adjust my witicisms to the audience. I can’t exercise my mind as much, explore as much, get as much feedback. But I can still have the girl laughing much of the day.
Humor is also about dominance, strangely. A girl will titter about almost anything you say and even laugh at small facial expressions and body movements if she admires you.
I’ll say it again that it’s a points system. If a guy is worth 20 points, he’ll not be satisfied unless his woman is worth 20 points. Where the points lie is a personal preference, after the minimum level of looks.
What a lot of us guys fail to notice is just what a jump in quality of life a jump in physical attraction will bring.
I wrote a post about this on my blog a few years back. Two posts.
http://xsplat.wordpress.com/2007/01/14/what-do-i-want-what-do-i-like/
and
http://xsplat.wordpress.com/2006/10/09/what-mate-character-attributes-to-purchase-with-limited-value-points/
and
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Man, I screwed up today.
There is a Chinese woman that works in a Reebok outlet store near me. The first time I met her there a couple months ago, she was asking all sorts of personal questions like where do I work and am I married. I told her I am. Even after that she was still flirty. We had a great conversation. I didn’t think much of it at the time.
Then a couple weeks ago I went there and as soon as I walked in she got all lit up and we spoke some more, but I didn’t have time to engage her much.
So today I go there to cast a line and hopefully score a number. , I walk in, the place is packed. I see her off to the side talking to another employee. My first dumbass move was I DIDN”T APPROACH HER BOLDLY, BUT INSTEAD JUST GAVE HER A SMILE AND PRETENDED LIKE i WAS SHOPPING AROUND. Next thing I know she has disappeared. For around 10 minutes. I’m scanning the scene looking to see where the hell she went, so then I ask one of the other employees where Irene went. He says he has no idea, but goes to look in the back for her. Next thing I know she comes out from the back, approaches me warmly with a high 5 and asks how I’ve been. We chat for a few minutes, and talk about various things, a lot of it about our kids and how she works seven days a week and never takes any days off to have any fun. Then I pull my next dumbass move: INSTEAD OF JUST SAYING “HEY, GIVE ME YOUR NUMBER SO WE CAN TALK LATER,” I ASK HER IF SHE’S MARRIED. She answers yes in a loud tone, not mean or offended”. I think she anwered that way because there were employees around that may have heard my question. So then she says she has to get back to work and we both say take care.
Fuck man, I feel so damn stupid. Actually, I feel good about speaking to her but foolish for acting so beta and not being more direct. The reality is that I don’t care if she’s married. She would have answered the marriage question anyway with her response to a request for her phone number.
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Cat P.,
You didn’t permanently hurt your chances, but you should not be looking to cheat locally. Way too easy for people who know your wife to see you cheating.
In my experience Chinese women are not like American women in that they generally know what they want. If she was not scared off by your being married she won’t be offended by boldness on your part.
A Chinese woman I regularly encounter in our local coffeehouse has been flirting with me and used the old trick of saying I should get together with her and her husband (our jobs have something in common) but then when the time came her husband hadn’t been able to make it though she was there. I gave her no encouragement, but if she had been 10 years younger I would have been tempted.
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Badger Nation,
Don’t dismiss MMSL. That frequency is not achieved because of a special compatibility between Athol and his Mrs. Any woman is capable of that in the beginning of a hot relationship,and therefore at later stages too if you can keep it hot (or reignite it).
If she has not yet cheated, then applying LTR game can accomplish this (if she has sexually bonded with a new man, it’s much, much less possible and if there are no kids probably not worth the effort).
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Books said:
“anyone wanna guess what city i live in and what i do for a living??”
You live under a bridge, waiting for three billy goats gruff.
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For all of you metalheads out there, a legendary rocker and alpha has passed away.
Ronnie James Dio R.I.P.
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[…] I read a blogospheric discussion about the dating market from a man’s perspective, the typical discussion in which men indulge in their favorite pastime of My Female-induced […]
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about SF: What I noticed when I headed out there for my first trip to the West Coast was how hot the asian girls can be out there. All the hot asian chicks seem to be out there (by that I mean Asian chicks with actual bodies, tits, ass,etc). Most asian chicks here in NYC are quite plain or flat as 2-by-4s.
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Hey Lozzlz dude, I know I shouldn’t encourage you, but you just hit a level of genius today:
Anyway, regarding what El Gringo said:
Many guys on here not wanting to be a beta provider? I’d say I disagree. Roissy has commented many times about how many “playaz” will settle down with the first 7 that their dicks get into. Even the “masters” of game like Mystery or that ugly dude from L.A. settled for the first 9 they scored.
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A buddy who lived in DC thinks it was way easier to get laid there than here in San Francisco. DC is full of interns and stepping-stone post-college types that just want to meet people to party with. Age-range is probably a big factor.
SF can be real cliquey – if you can get ‘in’ with a girl you’re game, but if you’re on the outside forget it. Live from SF is right that the town is full of decent-looking 30 year old boyfriend-less chicks desperate to meet a decent man. But part of the way they do it is through shitloads of “social proof”.
Also I wouldn’t underestimate the Hollywood factor in LA. I’ve met so many LA types that are “consulting on a screenplay” or finds some way to namedrop a tenuous connection to a star or director. Either that or they know some band. Seems like LA people are star-struck even if they’re completely removed from the industry.
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Cowen is clearly borderline autistic. He has very little understanding of human nature. Much like a woman, he can’t fathom the fact that most people don’t think like him.
I find a lot of interesting links on his site, but his analyses of human psychology suck a fat chalupa.
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Roissy and/or Roissy readers
Please help a 40-year old white man out.
I need to decide between living in the grimy St. Louis,MO or the college town of Columbia, MO.
I’m leaning to Columbia, because of the U. of Missouri. I figure, if I’ve got tight game – which partly comes from practice – I ought to be able to swoop the grad students, recent grads and perhaps even undergrads.
On the other hand, STL is looking like a nig-infested shithole. Yet it has amenities like an airport, cosmopolitan women, etc.
If the goal was to fuck young pussy (hopefully smart), where would you position yourself, and how would you go about doing it?
Basically, the question is, college town or “diverse” metro?
My general sense: tune my game to the U. of MO and then milk that for the next decade. There’s a new crop of young women every year.
Thanks for any help.
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I am wondering what the real truth is about ‘California hotties’ in Los Angeles.
I have been there only a couple of times. But from going to a club in LA, I saw that the number of blonde hotties was much higher than in Chicago, San Francisco, etc.
But this was just the club.
The legendary beaches had zip. Not a single hottie. Mostly Mexican families with lots of kids.
Walking around Hollywood and Beverley Hills, there were not many hotties on the street. The malls had no more than any other major US city.
So what is the real truth about the supposedly high number of 8s, 9s, and 10s in LA? Truth or not?
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Re Thursday
“It’s shocking how many cute church girls in their late 20s/early 30s have had only one boyfriend or even no boyfriend at all their entire life.”
Very true and very little talked about. I know a gynecologist that tells me mature female virgins (> 30) is not an uncommon occurrence.
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Makeup is a Disguise
8. The best looking women won’t be found in America. For that, you’ll have to travel to Tallinn or Kiev.
I’d like to see US/UK-Axis 20-30 yr old women side-by-side vs. East Bloc girls…WITHOUT MAKEUP.
Who would win that horse show, the west or the east?
– Makeup is a DISGUISE
The East would, hands down.
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Long time reader, first time commenter.
I agree with some of Live from San Francisco’s comments.
Things I would add about SF:
Girls think they are special snowflakes here. This is usually because they have a *miss* (cute girl, flabby ass*/ great body, but-her-face*). Even more indicative of the special snowflake syndrome is the fashion designer/graphic designer/non-profit.
The girls here are also very SWPL and politically correct. I may try and fuck a girl like that, but I won’t try very hard.
Anyhow, girls here are chunkier because they do 30 minutes of yoga and call it a workout. They eat whatever they want from whole foods because it is “healthy” and they are more likely to have a desk job that sits them on their ass all day.
SF is great if you like Asian girls. There is a large population of Indian, Persian, Afghan, and Russians. These girls usually have the best bodies but you have to find them and break them out of their communities.
SF is a great place for sexual experimentation. I have gotten a few threesomes already and I’m around Roissy’s Greater Beta/Lesser Alpha Level.
The nightlife closes early here 1:30 and a lot of the hot women don’t go out because there is a large “creepy man” population. You do get a lot more tourists here in SF than a place like DC, especially Scandinavians and Germans.
@betadyourmom: I don’t think social proof is that important to getting what you want, but if you do know someone (mutual friend on facebook with one of her girlfriends is enough), things move on an accelerated timescale – SNL is often possible. I don’t see how this is any different than anywhere else.
I like to date girls that move from LA or just graduated from college and are starting their new job. After a few months they usually start to get chunky and then you can find a new one. most of the 19-21 year olds I have snagged have come from Europe or Berkeley, but I am settling into the range of 23-26 = best chance of hotness and minimal drama
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In other news, the attacks in China continues…
http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-world/six-chinese-hurt-in-meat-cleaver-attack-20100517-v8ub.html
“A man with a meat cleaver hacked and wounded six young women in southern China before committing suicide, the latest in a spate of attacks, state media says.
[…]
In Sunday’s incident, the assailant entered numerous shops and restaurants at the marketplace to attack young women, in most cases hacking at them once around the shoulders and neck, the Guangzhou Daily said.
[…]
Among the most recent incidents, a man stabbed to death eight people, including three family members, on May 8 in the eastern province of Jiangxi, reports said.
Two days later, a man armed with a knife and an axe killed two women and wounded seven other people in Shaanxi province in northern China, including two 18-month-old boys.”
And of course:
“Police are trying to determine a motive for the attack.”
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And commentary from Beverly Ekunwe, an “Atlanta Feminism and Relationships Examiner”:
http://www.examiner.com/x-49209-Atlanta-Feminism-and-Relationships-Examiner~y2010m5d15-Young-Chinese-women-professionals-likely-questioning-roles-as-they-cope-with-school-murder-spree
“From Beijing to this particular village of Linchang, in Shaanxi Province, too many (for any degree of comfort) professional women who might otherwise have homeschooled or at least been well aware of any tensions in their children’s school are wondering about the price they may have to pay for their rushed ushering into so-called post-modern civilization.”
Most interestingly:
“Like the retired surgeon Zheng Minsheng who killed and injured more than a dozen elementary school age children and screamed while doing so, “People are turning me into a mad man. If I am not allowed to live, then I won’t let others live.”, the private kindergarten murderer was also coping with unattended to frustrations before going stark raving mad and terminating children in response.”
and
“Of Mr. Wu, the kitchen cleaver wielding building manager, the Associated Press quotes a lifelong acquaintance, “This kid was very honest and didn’t talk much, … He had a very soft and gentle personality and didn’t have mental problems that we know of.””
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I think this thread contains the best sentence ever written in a blog comment:
“and how even if you saw an open bottle of coke on a restaurant table and you could be bretty sure that no cocks had touched it, no way in hell would you drink form it ”
It perfectly captures that “pretty sure no cocks have touched that coke bottle” feeling.
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Ohh yea, i agree the most beautiful women are from Tallinn.
When I visited Tallinn nine years ago, the women weren’t quite as beautiful, on average, as I had expected. Helsinki was not that far behind. But St. Petersburg is something else. And I’ve been told Kazan is even better.
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Ive sarged with Venusian Arts nearly every city in the nation…
Ive lived in DC and Baltimore area my whole life.
Ive sarged all over the planet.
Roissy, you are sadly mistaken about the attractiveness level in DC.
DC bitches are ugly compared to ANY city in the US.
Of course Ukrainians are hotter. Ive been all over there (though I would argue odessa has hotter girls), Russia, Asia, south america…
I dont know of any nation that in terms of attractivness beats the US (not counting westernized nations of England, Austraila, Canada and such).
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polymath,
Not dismissing, just noting. MMSL is obviously doing a great job.
betadyourmom,
I moved from west coast to east coast a little while back and immediately noticed a much more positive atmosphere wrt girls. For all its claims of lifestyle tolerance, I found the SF Bay Area to be the most stultifying, tight-ass social environment I’ve ever lived in.
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“One does not live in Portland for the women. The Portland women are into the alternative, hipster look. Even the women in Vancouver, WA are better looking than those in downtown Portland.
One lives in Portland for the natural beauty and mild climate.”
True. A slim majority. Not a chance.
Half true, but did you mean to say mild salsa?
Portland women generally wear very little makeup — it’s as if they are competing on the basis of who can try the least and still look good. They also eat plenty of real food and eschew intense gymrattery, and they like to show off the consequences with snug shortshorts and slacks. Mmm, the succulence of your typical round, ample PDX bottom…. Lord have mercy.
Stay vigilant, though — some PDXers take the organic look to its logical conclusion and fail to shave anything. Surprise! Overgrown foliage wherever you look. Kinda like Oregon.
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Most beautiful women (in my experience) ordered by city:
1. Vilnius
2. Tallinn
3. Madrid
4. St. Petersburg
D.C….I’ve been here for a little over 5 years and I have the same opinion as Roissy. Pseudo-intellectualism is a huge turn-off for me. TONS of overweight chicks. It’s sad.
Hook-ups are easy but dating is harder- people are much more closed off in this city, probably due to its transient nature. Most people I know in their 20s are only here to start their career and would get the hell out if they had the option.
On the other hand, I’m from NH originally and honestly think UNH girls are some of the hottest in the country. Anyone who wants a taste can check out the smokeshows at http://boston.barstoolsports.com.
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@Badger Nation
MMSL also claims he and his wife have “kept at it” to the tune of over 300 “encounters” per year for close to a decade.
My first reaction: party on.
I’ve been doing it for four years and beat the 300+ events per year by about 100 events. Sex frequency has actually increased slightly in the last two years by about 10%.
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GBFM is a protestant evangelical minister and is acting as an agent provocateur here for Christianity. That is what I guessed before and his silence served to validate my hypothesis.
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FWIW in my limited time in DC (basically, four nights over two trips there in November-December) I had no problem meeting and sleeping with hot, smart girls. I can’t abide girls of average intelligence. I especially go for writers.
NYC definitely has a higher density of hot girls, but a lot of them are just b-school drones, usually either marketing or finance. They’re fun for a few laughs, but generally not very creative and not good conversationalists.
It helps to have money in NY, but the truly rich guys who also are young generally are too busy working 80-hour weeks at I-banks & hedge funds to actually go out and meet girls, much less develop decent game.
Older rich guys don’t usually go out to bars. So if you’re in your early forties (like me), make good money and can demonstrate it without try-hard, it’s like shooting fish in a barrel.
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How are the girls in Copenhagen? Anyone have recent experience?
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Xsplat
Humor is also about dominance, strangely. A girl will titter about almost anything you say and even laugh at small facial expressions and body movements if she admires you.
@Anon
“I am wondering what the real truth is about ‘California hotties’ in Los Angeles.”
The place to find them is at casting calls in film industry offices, and/or the offices of talent agents, as well as the airport… you will find the new arrivals who expect to be the next Megan Fox disembarking there.
Make sure to have your own Talent Agent cards printed and on hand before going hunting.
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I’ve lived along the Front Range of Colorado (Pueblo/Colorado Springs/Denver/Boulder/Ft. Collins) for 20+ years and can say it’s a bust.
I always shake my head when those magazines come out with their annual ratings and Colorado is right at the top of the healthiest and fittest states in the country. (We all give ourselves a collective pat on the back…) It seems like nothing but fuglies to my eye — all those cornfed midwesterners wash up against the mountains and get stuck here.
I still remember the last really nice looking woman I saw downtown, just because you never see a striking woman in a dress, heels, hair done, etc. around here. (She was meeting her guy at the restaurant I was at.) It was two years ago. I’d say she was a solid 7-8, but if I had a picture I’d hesitate to publish it here because of all the howls from the denizens about how she was just a 6 at best. Your calibration gets thrown off when you live around 1’s, 2’s, 3’s, and 4’s.
The only halfway decent looking females I run across would be the occasional waitress or checkout girl, which is to say they look good only because they’re young. What else they may have going for them, I can’t say. The hot weekend night spots are about like going to a kegger block party at a trailer park populated by nothing but trashy psycho twenty-five year old neo-rednecks.
I visited Phoenix about a year ago for the Sweet Sixteen NCAA games, stayed in a motel near the interstate some ten miles from the arena, and thus got around some over the four days I was there, and can’t say I noticed a really striking difference. Lets just say the late-March weather (upper 70s) and being able to drive around with the top down was what I remember as being really nice.
Long story short, I’ve never met anyone I even wanted to date (which hasn’t precluded me from having a few ill-advised pump-and-can’t-dump-fast-enoughs) so I agreed with nupinup in one of the first posts: “As European, it is always dumbfounding just how few good looking women there are in the US … I was sure they just siphon away all the pretty girls leaving the rest of the country with a drought.”
I don’t know about the siphon part (actually I doubt that theory seriously) but the drought is real. In my estimation it poses a big fundamental problem for Game: why even bother if there are no women worth gaming?
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Roissy isn’t all that well educated (or at least harbours contempt for those that are).
I suppose the meandering prose littered with redundant $1000 words should have tipped me off.
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Martian,
“because you never see a striking woman in a dress, heels, hair done, etc. around here.”
Does the outdoorsy lifestyle have anything to do with it, i.e. lots of would-be 6’s and 7’s dressed down in hiking shorts, heavy jeans, acrylic shirts and boots?
“why even bother if there are no women worth gaming?”
Sublimate. Find something else constructive to do with your time and effort and wait it out? That’s what I did in the chick-desert-cum-sausage-party that was grad school, notwithstanding short spurts of interest in a select few females.
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DC isn’t so bad, as long as you know where and when to go. weeknights are best so you don’t have to compete with the vanilla bridge-and-tunnel crowd, but that’s no secret.
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I’ve lived in dc for 7 yrs, which is 6 yrs and 6 months too long. Gringo Loco has summed it up most accurately. I don’t know what it is w/girls in DC, but they have the biggest entitlement complexes I’ve ever encountered. And that’s saying a lot since they’re girls.
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Darsh, thanks for the update on the recent attack in China. China is going to have to respond before this gets out of hand. Extra security, which it sounds like they are implementing, is definitely not the answer. They might need to shuttle state-subsidized prostitutes out to the areas where male:female ratios are the highest (probably smaller cities and rural areas), and start gearing up for the inevitable war to eliminate some of the male surplus and acquire a population with a better ratio (hello, North Korea).
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Kaio:
Did you visit Riga? I felt Riga topped both Vilnius and Tallinn.
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DC is not a great place for the average beta, because the average girl is chasing status. there are also a lot of ideological shit tests that needed to be handled a certain way.
once, however, you sum up the number of gay dudes and awkward betas, it’s not bad for a guy with some game. there’s not too many head-turners, but plenty of cute 7s and 8s.
also, it’s not fair to judge the ratio by a shot of mcfaddens. the weekend bar scene is definitely a sausage-fest, but happy hours and special events are full of women.
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Guys with game get laid like gangbusters in LA. I would put game above all other criteria but celebrity and exceptionally high status. In fact, there are lots of rich and high status white knights here who provide financial favors to women only to have them bang some low status guy with game when the clock strikes midnight. I’ve seen it a million times.
Anecdotally, I was a part of a start up that did an acquisition with a DC group. A bunch of 20 something dudes with solid game ended up relocating out here. I told them over drinks one night that whatever their experiences in DC where they were gonna bang more hot women than they ever imagined in LA. They still bring that up from time to time and are piling up notches in their pussy punch card.
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Anon anon, going from MacGinty’s to 18th street lounge must have caused the bends. I’ve visited that sad outpost on a weekend once. If you are in suburb Md hell, go to Bethesda which is Md’s version of Clarendon. But I’ve always said that the secretarial pool in Baltimore is quite refreshing, they blow DC chicks away.
Ft. Lauderdale has the best looking girls in the rest of the USA (I wonder if LA is as hot as Entourage suggests?).
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Granted I’m a woman, but on average DC is just less attractive than than NYC or LA/SF. For both sexes. The cultural traits that affect the women tend to infect the men too.
In my experience living in all those cities DC was by far the easiest to date in, get asked out in, command male attention in, etc. I have no personal experience for how easy it is for men, but I would argue that it is easy for men too, if you are the least bit interesting. The city is so homogeneous and boring, generally, that any spark of sass should achieve wonders.
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al, girls I know visiting the DC area feel sad for the men in DC. The consensus is that the few good looking girls here have an ice-queen mentality. And the rest are frumpy, dumpy. Or from a different perspective, one of my visiting friends, a natural alpha, upon striking up a polite conversation with a coed in a Georgetown bar, turned to me and said “wow, even the ugly ones have attitude.” so that the chick could hear.
But I dunno, head to L2 or some other places. There is talent here but I think that sample may be outliers, recent college grads who just have youth on their side.
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Chainring: You’re probably right…I didn’t actually stop in Riga, but I think it’s safe to say that all three have amazingly attractive women.
I think people touched on the reasons why DC is the way is already- it’s where most of the ideologues end up, verses entrepeneurial/sales-centric types and the like. Lots of passion and a sense of entitlement bred out of the idea that they’re all out to save the world.
I went to AmericanU and I think the GWU and to some extent, Georgetown experiences aren’t too different. None of those schools are known for their partying. AU’s Greek life is pretty pathetic, all things I think contributing to the type of people you see attending. Also, by major, the International Relations crowd seemed to be the least attractive. Business/Int’l business was slightly better, Marketing pretty good, and Communication the best. You could also write off women’s and gender studies girls.
For the people that come here AFTER college, they carry the same mentality after getting jobs in one of the million NGO’s out here. While I was bartending it got extremely repetitive hearing “I work for a defense contractor” from 3/4 of the women that showed up (in a DC suburb).
I spend most of my nights in the Clarendon area now and it’s great. Seems like the dominant male type out here are 20-something guys with pseudo-affliction shirts and tattoos who drive Infinty’s and practically live in the bar. I’m currently watching one of my roommates get passed around through a group of them.
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Portland:
One benefit of the coastal Pacific Northwest is that the women tend to be in better shape (e.g. less fat) than much of the rest of the country, even if they are somewhat less attractive. They are really into the gyms here. Also, lots of good-looking Asian women as well.
SoCal:
This region has seriously declined in the past 20 years, with regards to the babe factor. The legendary beaches were full of hot women in the 80’s. Today, they feature mostly Mexicans and some Asian, generally families with kids. SoCal has become a weird multi-culti version of the 1950’s, at least on the beaches.
The clubs are full of hot women. But these are mostly limited to the Hollywood/West LA area or ceetain areas of Orange County. SoCal had clubs scattered all about in the 80’s.
SoCal was full of hot babes in the 80’s, and I mean they were everywhere (even in the gocery stores). Today its totally different. Southern California was THE adult playground paradise in the 1980’s. Its totally different today.
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@askjoe
What you write, sadly, is pretty much a pity summary of what I have found and was trying to express. Maybe it’s the overeducation or the strident feminism that comes with careers like politics or law, but too many women here take no joy in being attractive and agreeable partners for men and if anything seem to resent the idea that anyone would ever ask such a thing of them.
@al
I’m guessing that you’re one of the very small number of attractive and approachable women in DC. If that is the case, then sure, you’re going to get approached quite a bit, and that’s as it should be.
@D
Any chance you’ll tell a brother where you find “hot, smart” women, and especially writers, in DC? I sure would love to know. Others with answers to this question should also feel free to chime in.
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Also, if I were to make a contrarian case for DC I’d say that everyone in this thread seems inclined to bitch about the city where he lives, so maybe we all just need to try that much harder. I’d note, though, that with a few exceptions we aren’t hearing too many complaints about New York.
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In Barcelona right now, and there are blocks here that have more fly girls than in DC.
Barcelona as a whole destroys LA as well. Clean KO.
– MPM
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El Greco wrote “but with attractive young women it means that any girl is that much less willing to break the mold and date a guy who doesn’t fit the typical DC-chick criteria outlined above.”
I’ve seen that at play as well. There is some sort of mold or selection criteria at work for the non-profit, PR set. I think maybe that’s one of R’s tools, fitting into that criteria for a quick kill. or not. who knows.
But as for the deeper meaning of whatever, there is a definite aggregation of idealists and brainiacs here in DC with all the stereotypes that brings, women are somewhat plainer and careerist while the dudes are generally shorter and softer. In other words, there are very few locals, there’s no real industry in the city. Going up the street to Baltimore, the scene is more normalized…
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The map is really quite interesting. If you move the slider around a bit you’ll see that the younger demographic (18-39) is dominated my more single men where as the older demographic (40-64) is dominated by single women which leaves me wondering. Younger women tend to prefer older men, but does this trend also mean that betas that get married in their 20s and divorced in their 30s end up bedding younger women post divorce?
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I live in Manhattan and could list multiple complaints about dating here too. They are just different complaints. (though I think that NYC can meet DC for the, uh, ‘cunty entitled’ attitude, it just may not be considered as offensive here.)
I classify nova with DC, but I’ve never thought the want-to-be JMU look was particularly attractive.
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“There is a place for female smarts, but that place is at an easy to reach lower bound of IQ where she isn’t so much dumber than the man she is with that he finds it insufferable to deal with her continually not getting his jokes and cultural references.”
Let’s be honest here: to a man with an IQ above 125, a woman with an IQ as low as 111, great looks and the right personality/mindset is completely acceptable. Little more needs to be said on this topic.
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SoCal is still loaded with hot chicks. On any given Saturday at the 3rd Street Promenade or The Grove, you’re going to be turning your head. At Q’s, The Parlor, or Busby’s – all in Santa Monica – you’re going to see a crowd of 7s and 8s.
In Pasadena, there are lots of attractive Asians and Hispanics. You gotta pick the right night, though.
In Hermosa, Newport, Redondo, and other Beach cities, the bars are loaded with tan, big-titted, beautiful-feet having party girls.
And as already mentioned, Sunset Strips clubs are loaded.
So I’m not sure where you guys who claim to know about L.A. are going. Maybe you’re ugly and hate women, and thus in typical fat-guy style, proclaim that no woman is good enough for you?
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You’re wrong about the high-IQ guys vs. girls. It’s not that it’s the only thing we can afford to bargain for, it’s that we simply require a much higher IQ to get our cultural references and subtle wit. We love word play, crosswords, nerd movies, etc., and if a girl doesn’t share at least some of these interests we are bored quickly. It helps if she can fuck like crazy too.
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Yeah, Barcelona is sucking up a lot of the hot chicks of Europe – plenty of Germans, Russians, Brits, you name it.
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There is a large population of Indian, Persian, Afghan, and Russians
Yes, but many of them are sex slaves or otherwise owned by – or are related to – gangsters.
I’ve had too many close calls with San Francisco’s Russian and Asian crime syndicates to bother with that pool of girls.
Sure, there are some very pretty American Asians. The hottest ones, though – the ones you turn your head at and just can’t believe how hot they are – literally belong to someone else. Same thing with the young Eastern European chicks.
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“It’s not that it’s the only thing we can afford to bargain for, it’s that we simply require a much higher IQ to get our cultural references and subtle wit.”
Smart chicks with chunky thighs are just overrated as all hell. The smart man thinks with his penis, because the penis is often more intelligent than the brain (it’s harder to fool the penis.)
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Book smart =/= IQ. I’d rather have the latter.
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“DC is not a great place for the average beta, because the average girl is chasing status. there are also a lot of ideological shit tests that needed to be handled a certain way. ”
Let me ask you guys a question: is there a city where one can’t pick up a hipster 6 virtually at will, with little effort, any day of the week? They literally come up and rub up on you.
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@JB
“Smart chicks with chunky thighs are just overrated as all hell.”
The fact that this even needs to be pointed out tells you how screwed up today’s dating scene is. Chunkiness is not acceptable, period. The idea that it somehow is for a girl who’s smart enough is a load of BS and the cause of untold male frustration; nor, at the end of the proverbial day, does operating within this ethos really make women happy. Just as nerdboys are the only ones with an incentive to sell the appeal of dumpy Peace Corps chicks, dumpy Peace Corps chicks are the only ones hung up on the idea that a woman’s enormous brain ought to make her more desirable. You talk to any attractive or even normal-looking young woman, and you pretty quickly see that nothing gets her going like being on the receiving end of (non-beta) male desire. This is the main reason why I think direct game, properly delivered, can actually work quite well.
Postscript: Once you’ve banged a girl properly and generally proven your masculine point, *then* you really move in for the kill by baring your poetic soul and telling her how much you appreciate her smarts.
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“Let me ask you guys a question: is there a city where one can’t pick up a hipster 6 virtually at will, with little effort, any day of the week? They literally come up and rub up on you.”
Ugly dudes w/o game probably can’t pick up 6’s.
However, most guys want to pick up 7-8’s, and you need tight game & decent looks to pick up these type of girls since they are so in demand.
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“Book smart =/= IQ. I’d rather have the latter.”
This is a good point and especially crucial to grok in the age of lowered college entry standards and atrociously Gramscified liberal arts curicula. There are just too many girls overeducated for their intelligence these days.
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Booksmart? Overeducated? Yeah, if you mean a worthless liberal arts degree highly saturated in political indoctrination and identity politics. That’s not a sign of high IQ. And it’s a downer because most of these types of chicks argue via ostracism, win the crowd to win the argument.
So, yeah, if you conflate college degree with smart, then DC is full of smart chicks.
But, didn’t this blog post a study that high intelligence and good looks were related, not exclusive, of each other?
As for smart girls with chunky thighs, if they’re that smart, they should probably be able to figure out that nothing tastes as good as being thin feels.
Self proclaimed smart girls just sounds like another fat thigh hiding behind a pretty lie.
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The saying goes that patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel. DC is the last refuge of the ego-inflated SWPL beeeeyotch. and I will pound more of them.
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“Unless women make absurdly egregious decisions in their love life, they basically face only minor consequences for their bad decisions.”
This statement probably holds more truth when it comes to white women. I think it is very hard for black women to sleep around liberally without being ruined. There are so many black “alphas,” and since guys talk, it’s pretty easy for a girl to get stuck with the slut label.
I often find that many black women who get hit with the slut label find a white guy to bail them out. They then turn to black men and say, “See, white men will commit where you guys just run around like Peter Pan all day!” If you’re a white guy and you decided to marry a black woman, I strongly encourage you to do a background check with a member of Alpha Phi Alpha, Omega Psi Phi, or Kappa Alpha Psi Fraternity. Chances are your princess has been smashed by a professional athlete or drug kingpin and all the other black guys refused to commit to her because they know her history.
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“Brody
The saying goes that patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel. DC is the last refuge of the ego-inflated SWPL beeeeyotch. and I will pound more of them.”
Butthex is the last refuge of the neocon. lzozlzlzlllz and its first too. lzozlzlzlzl
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Re LA: Downtown is pretty full of eye candy recently, too. Hipsters, yeah – but they’re usually good looking under all that terrible fashion.
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Re Thursday
“It’s shocking how many cute church girls in their late 20s/early 30s have had only one boyfriend or even no boyfriend at all their entire life.”
Very true and very little talked about. I know a gynecologist that tells me mature female virgins (> 30) is not an uncommon occurrence.
Glad to have some confirmation of what I have observed. Unfortunately they are often a little _too_ zealous in keeping their legs closed.
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“DC is the last refuge of the ego-inflated SWPL beeeeyotch.”
Werd.
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I live in LA. Its a weird place. When I first moved here and started going out I had a girl stop talking to me after she found out I didn’t work in the entertainment industry. I have a luxury car, nice clothes, good game in other cities. But the girl just had visions of fame.
I eventually picked up on the whole entertainment vibe and took some acting and screenwriting lessons in my spare time. It seems like a struggling actor on the side gets laid here way more then the Don Draper type who would be the king in other cities.
Oh and the hot chicks are here for sure. Go to the right clubs and nightspots and they are full of them. But just walking around on the street you will see a lot of uggos.
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JB,
“Gramscified”
That word does a lot of work. Deep stuff.
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@Cat Patrol
Man, I screwed up today.
There is a Chinese woman that works in a Reebok outlet store near me. The first time I met her there a couple months ago, she was asking all sorts of personal questions like where do I work and am I married. I told her I am. Even after that she was still flirty. We had a great conversation. I didn’t think much of it at the time.
She’s a SALES woman. Her job is to butter you up to get the sale. Flirting = more sales. Sexy = more sales. String him along = more sales.
Put another way, Men who have a hard-on spend money, like they have a hard-on.
Female saleswomen know that.
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Polymath: Heh. I like words that do a lot of work — even if I have to make them up.
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Im from Baltimore. Its easy to sarge in. DC sucks.
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I’m from Estonia (not living in Tallinn atm though) and I’ve got to tell you, Roissy, the next time you come to Estonia you should visit Tartu. All the appropriately aged chicks go to college to Tartu and basically from september to june old town of Tartu is filled with 18-25 year old college chicks. Spring in Tartu = ooooh yeaah.
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@Tracinho
Roissy isn’t all that well educated (or at least harbours contempt for those that are).
I suppose the meandering prose littered with redundant $1000 words should have tipped me off.
I’m very well educated. I have little respect for formal education per se. I have far more respect for a man who can work with his hands over a professor type any day of the week. All the more, if he’s educated himself and well read.
“We can skin a buck, we can run a trout line, and a country boy can survive”
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Jay,
Where did you find that description of the woman overwhelmed by masculine charisma?
Sounds like pheromones at work, but Roissy’s Twitter link about pheromones just goes to a scam site, all the pheromone sites and products are scams. I have no doubt the secret will eventually be found by researchers, and that will change everything, but it hasn’t been found yet.
Actually, what men need is much simpler than a pheromone that will induce such an overpowering response; they just need an ability to detect enough of a response that they get sufficient feedback to hone their game to the point they can reliably induce the swooning tingles. This I think is the key to “naturals” — their true natural ability is reading female signals which allows them to unconsciously improve their game through reinforcing what works.
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(Resubmitting shorter version to avoid moderation bot):
Jay,
Where did you find that description of the woman overwhelmed by masculine charisma?
What men need is much simpler than a pheromone that will induce such an overpowering response; they just need an ability to detect enough of a response that they get sufficient feedback to hone their game to the point they can reliably induce the swooning tingles. This I think is the key to “naturals” — their true natural ability is reading female signals which allows them to unconsciously improve their game through reinforcing what works.
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DC is largely fat girls in flip flops (regardless of season). That being said, it’s easier to get more ass than a rental car seat there.
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ha ha Portland girls! Go ahead and bash ’em,it sounds like fun!!
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I was just complaining to my coworker about the ugliness of Portlanders before I read this article. I work downtown and live close-in. Rarely do I even need to use my neck muscles to see what I’m not missing.
It doesn’t help that half the girls here aren’t looking for guys at all.
I’d be interested to here your assessment Roissy.
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Does anyone got info on Miami? I’m looking to move and wondering what the scene is like.
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“You’re wrong about the high-IQ guys vs. girls. It’s not that it’s the only thing we can afford to bargain for, it’s that we simply require a much higher IQ to get our cultural references and subtle wit. We love word play, crosswords, nerd movies, etc., and if a girl doesn’t share at least some of these interests we are bored quickly. It helps if she can fuck like crazy too.”
Nerd movies? Crosswords? Uh-huh. I know my own kind and you, sir, are in denial.
It’s about market segmentation. Roissy’s discussed the importance of intellectual dominance. An ugly smart girl doesn’t like to date guys stupider than her, but that severely limits her options. So she’ll settle for a geek.
Pretty smart girls want smart guys too, but being pretty, they don’t have to settle for geeks.
So the geek’s best chance is an ugly smart girl.
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I have lived in New York and DC and you are dead on with your analysis. Finally someone who has the skill to express what so many of us think.
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Video is down. Reup:
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Isn’t the female personality of a place an outlying factor on where women are prominent. I mean a place could be prominent with women, but if you’re into the whole hipster scene, you should definitely move out to Portland or SF because anywhere else, you’ll get laughed at and pointed away.
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