I had no intention of bringing back the Beta of the Month contest, but these three sad sacks were an irresistible draw. The audience demands it, pay-per-view wants it, and the suits are throwing money at the talent scouts — namely, me.
BOTM Candidate #1 is a commenter to a ridiculously one-sided and myopic online article in The Atlantic called “Love, Actually: How girls reluctantly endure the hookup culture”, written by Caitlin Flanagan and dedicated to the proposition that the princess pedestal is the one true force of nature. I quote Flanagan:
This was how it was, during that endless, unhappy adolescence: my mother desperately trying to warn me of all the heartbreaks and dangers of womanhood […]
Today’s teenage girl—as much designed for closely held, romantic relationships as were the girls of every other era—is having to broker a life for herself in which she is, on the one hand, a card-carrying member of the over-parented generation, her extended girlhood made into a frantically observed and constantly commemorated possession of her parents, wrought into being with elaborate Sweet 16 parties, and heart-tugging video montages, and senior proms of mawkish, Cinderella-dream dimensions—and on the other hand she has also been forced into a sexual knowingness […]
She is a little girl; she is a person as wise in the ways of sexual expression as an old woman. […]
There might seem something wan, even pitiable, about all these young girls pining for boyfriends instead of hookups.
Hey Flanagan, one word: hypergamy. Look it up. Then try writing something that examines the issue of the sexual market with a little more full spectrum analysis.
The commenter’s handle is Uncle_Fred, and he writes in reply to Flanagan’s sexegesis (partial quote):
I’m of the Generation Y group (I’m 24). I don’t fret over it if my girlfriend wants to go out and have a one night stand with someone else. I just ask that that she calls me a couple times so I know she is safe. She is young and I would rather her have a good time while she can.
Enlightened Renaissance Man, or wretched loser? You be the judge!
A question for David Alexander Uncle_Fred comes to mind. Is this slut really your girlfriend, or is she your “””girlfriend”””, i.e. a chick who lets you sob on her shoulder but won’t let you sob in her cunt? You come out looking bad either way, but if the former description is in operation, you, sir, have descended to new lows of abject betahood. Your psyche may as well be the poster boy for microphallic minimasculinity.
Another commenter followed up to Uncle_Fred’s remark:
Wow, no kidding. Good for you for empowering your girlfriend that way… assuming that the arrangement has actually been tested?
It’s funny how in the face of psychological neutering and Darwinian obliteration, all these progressive-minded SWPLs can think about is how “empowering” it is for the woman involved. Something to keep in mind about empowerment — usually one person’s empowerment means another person’s powerlessness. Especially when the field of play is the sexual market, a zero sum game of the greatest urgency.
***
BOTM Candidate #2 is a classic cuckold, with a nauseating twist: he, like, totally forgiiiiiives his cheating wife and mother of their one-year-old child.
Tiffany Tehan, 31, disappeared Saturday, leaving behind husband David and 1-year-old daughter Lexie. The vanishing act triggered a cross-country search until police, acting on an FBI tip, found her staying at a Miami Beach motel with Tre Hutcherson, a man police had called a person of interest in her disappearance. Police quickly determined that Tehan was not in danger.
“She left voluntarily with this fellow and drove to Miami to — and these are her words — start a new life,” Miami Beach police Sgt. Wayne Jones said. […]
Husband Forgives Wife Immediately
David Tehan said Thursday he was angry at Hutcherson but that he “absolutely” forgives his wife. When asked why he forgave her, Tehan said, “I don’t know. It’s supernatural.
“She may have made some mistakes but everyone does and I can’t blame her for any of this,” the husband said. “She’s a person like anyone else getting through life, and it’s not always easy.”
Don’t these sound like the mincing words of a man who believes he cannot get any other woman? A big problem feeble betas have is a lack of understanding of the psychology of women. David doesn’t understand that by directing his ire at the interloping male and lavishing “forgiveness” on his cheating whore wife, he stokes his wife’s disgust with him. Not to mention he offers her a plenary indulgence from guilt or shame or any consequence whatsoever for her brazen cheating. What’s going to stop her from doing this again, to him or to any other similarly brainwashed man? As far as she knows, nothing. After all, her own cuckolded husband has called her blameless. “I’m a woman, please perch me high atop my victimhood pedestal and wash my dainty feet with oil!”
“Some mistakes.” “Mistakes were made.” “We all make mistakes sometimes.” The pathetic mewling of the untermensch. Wake up, son, and see the light.
The Beta:

The Bitch:

The Badboy:

***
BOTM Candidate #3 was submitted by reader Luke. He writes:
Unfortunately I have no information about this situation, other than it is in Madison Square Park, NYC. In any case, it’s good for a laugh.
This was the attached photo:

Anyone know anything about this guy? Could be a radio station prank, like the one pulled by a DC-based station last year. If it’s authentic, then there’s no denying the gravity of the groveling by this extraordinary beta.
***
The voting:

Ooh, this is a toughie, I’d have to go with #2 just because the photos of those people so hilariously confirm their personalities.
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I voted for #1. That is inexcusable.
In the photos for #2, I would have thought the white trash skinhead would have been the bad boy and the guy with an elongated bowl cut would have been the beta. Just an observation.
I need more information about #3. Seems like a wanna be Wall Street cat (see the banker’s collar) who is wearing a man bag.
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#2 is just white trash so what do you expect and we lack context for #3, although it does appear damning. #1 just made me want to wretch, however, especially the part about only wanting to ensure she was “safe” after the one night stand. Beta is too kind, this is a clear omega of the first order.
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Is that hair on the “Bad Boy’s” head, or is it some weird new kind of hat? Or maybe he’s wearing a hoodie under his shirt? I really do need to be better about keeping up with the latest fashions.
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I’m going with #2…
He sounds typical of someone who has been brainwashed by evangelicals…Quick to forgive and can’t explain why other than it is “supernatural.”
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lollzozzlzllz zlzozlzlzlzl zlzozlzlz
i have a one cock rule
make me think of a cock other than my own, and i’m gone lzozlzlzozzl zlzzlzolzlzlzlzozzolzozzo lzozzo
if i have to worry where you are or how many cocks you are eating touching licking …. i’m gone lzolzlzlzz
gone lzozlzlz
gone lzozlzlzlzl
gone lzozlzllzlzlzz
if you text or call during a date
i am gone lzozlzlzlzlzlzlz
it doesn’t even have to be a date
i’m gone lzozlzlzlzllzlzlzzozlzozlzlzl
when i’m with you i only want to be thinking of one cock — mine own lzozlz it’s big enough for the both of us omg you know it
basically when a chcik is out of site i forget about her 100% because chances are she’s got cocks in her anus
i getz lots of play and wake up alone 2 greet the new day while the betas whine mpiss and moand and waste their lives away lzozlzlzoozzlzl
all her orifices i touch and see
you buy her a $10,000 ring just to watch her pee
all over you
as that’s what betas do.
lzozlzlzl!!
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Hmmm.
I nominate Beta 2 because he forgives his wife right after he finds her with her partner in crime.
Beta 1 at least hasn’t been stupid enough to end up in that arrangement with a wife.
Beta 3 is just a step below beta 2 in my opinion.
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First reaction was to pick #2. But I thought about it and chose #1 because he’s excusing – even encouraging – his gf’s adultery and betrayal before the fact. #1 is making a policy statement. #2 is bad, but at least he’s reacting to a bad spot. #3 looks bad, but don’t know enough about him.
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http://gawker.com/5524167/im-sorry-megan-sign-guys-girlfriend-speaks-out
#3 might be a hoax.
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weak shit, beta3 is http://tinyurl.com/2deacsh.
It may be a hoax, but if it is a hoax, the underlying assumptions say it all…
“in an email, Megan Brady said that Jeff really was a heartbroken lover with a plan just crazy enough to work.”
“Jeff is not anything but a man who apologized in a very “Jeff way,” which seems odd to most but not to me because I know him so well, he has been my best friend for quite awhile. He also knows me very well and knew how to get my attention. It worked.”
I vote for #1. He seems to have given his slut a one-sided, open relationship.
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Who’s down for running a train on candidate #1’s girl?
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Wasteland,
No, the skinhead is way too soft-looking to be white trash or tough in any way. And Bowl Cut guy obviously got styled by the TV producers. In earlier news pix he looked slightly higher-T than average; lesser Alpha, tops, but the wife is only a 7 in the best pic I’ve seen of her so the story makes sense.
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OMG!!
THE ATLANTIC AUTHOR IS A DIPSHIT IDIOT!!!!
lozzllzlzlzlzlzl zlzoz
she says that youngs womenz is longing for boyfirends lzozlzlzlzlzlzlzlzl
no they are longing for vampire and werewolf cocka cokca cockca as ben bernanke teaches them to. they are longing for tucker max 2 do them in the anus as the neocons publish and promote him and fund his fucking girls acorss the country lozzlzllzzllzozzozlzozlzozllz
womenz love playing the victim role that really they just want boyfriends even though they spread their legs wide wide wide wide for ahole of their own volition and cuk cocks of thei own volition and then they can blame it all on men and insititute fed reserve funded women’s tsudies programs to transfer monbey and welath from men and punish betas all becvause they sit and suck on alpha cokc lozzllzlzlzlz
so they get the best of tboth worlds the whoring women riding up and down up and down on my alpha cock and then when i don’ call them they create academic programs persecuiting bnetas and demanding money from them to raise my alpha seed which they accepted willfully and joyfiully yes yeys yesy yes yeys yeys ye syeyeysyysysys in their ginas lzozlzlzlzl yes yes harder! depper! harder! deeper! oh! oh! oh! oh! yes! that feeels os good! oh oh oh oooooohhh oooooohhhhh oh oh yes yes yes yesy yes YES!!!! YOU ASSHOLE!!!!!!
lozl!
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BigBadRich: I thought the same thing.
But the winner has to be 1 or 3. Number 1 is worse than 2 because as Thomas points out, he at least recognizes that he has been wronged. 1 accepts the behavior as normal.
But look at 3… He’s tall, thin, and wearing a suit. That suggests a decent income. Only true-believing inner-beta could drive this kind of willful subjection to petty public shaming.
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I thought Bad Boy in number 2 was Billy Ray Cyrus at first glance.
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women like ayn rand and teh twilight chicka are incapable of writing tragedies like romeo and juliet as they see no tragedy as women as the betas must always bale them out after they get pumped and dumped at lozozlzozozllzlzozzoz
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It’s ballsy to stand in public with a sign proclaiming yourself abusive. This could be alpha with some modified wording:
“Megan, I’m sorry for slapping you around. But you did deserve it, so be my bitch again. For the other ho’s reading this: my number is xxx-xxxx”
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I voted #3. This seems so “Try hard” uber-beta.
Game principles violated:
Pedestalization….
One-itis…
Apologizing “I’m sorry…” was bad enough…but to add “Megan”… ech!
Not being man enough to walk away
I also based my vote on #3 based on his body language…eyes in downward gaze….
Also, he’s way too verbose…which I’ve learned is beta…
The deal-breaker for me was the exclamation point ! and the wholly unnecessary “I’m”….
A text would have been beta….this is UBER beta…
As for #1 and #2….heard too many stories like this to make it unusual…we’ve heard of cuckolded husbands on these pages before…
#3…hands down.
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GBFM,
That was actually lyrical. You should consider making a rap CD, with tracks like
One Cock Rule
Urinal
Fiat Homo
Where have all the good men gone
Give us Barbabbs
Bbbbbenbernankebankerwanker
I’m trying to figure out whether lzozlzlzllzl should be the sound of a DJ dragging the needle to a new groove, or an eardrum-shattering heavy metal riff, or a retro-sounding laugh track.
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They’re all nausea-inducing, but number 1 was boosted into the stratosphere of betaness by the follow up comment. That’s got to be a harbinger the apocalypse, when encouraging your skanky “girlfriend” to cheat on you is regarded as empowering her.
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@ask joe wrote:
“in an email, Megan Brady said that Jeff really was a heartbroken lover with a plan just crazy enough to work.”
“Jeff is not anything but a man who apologized in a very “Jeff way,” which seems odd to most but not to me because I know him so well, he has been my best friend for quite awhile. He also knows me very well and knew how to get my attention. It worked.”
Ok…now I’m convinced #3 was the right choice:
“he has been my BEST FRIEND for quite a while…..” He’s been LJBF’d and he’s doing this???
“Get my attention”…..another beta move….he shouldn’t be working so hard…
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Tough choices this month, but #2 takes it.
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Sad, sadder, and saddest.
#2 has to be the winner this month. I hope he gets paternity testing.
The question is, how screwed will he be by the court system when all is said and done?
I think that the best punishment for a cheating wife is just to let her go off with her “man”, being sure she takes as little of value ($$, kids maybe) with her as possible. She is of course cheating with a person who has no intention of investing in her. On the slim chance that the other man is willing to invest in her, he would most be certainly a loser himself.
So, #2 should play his cards right, and be rid of her as cheaply as possible. And, he should be thanking the other man for taking that worthless wife off his hands.
Really, reading these BOTM contests is depressing.
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walawala, either way, if #3 is a hoax, that email reveals the mindset of the people at work of what works. And if it’s real…
But still, #1 brags about being open-minded enough to let his chick prowl. This isn’t a mutually beneficial arrangement but one where he’s Penelope to her roaming wanderer. He’s staying at home alone while she does whatever.
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omg lzozlzzozozlz yes i want to be one of the first on the roissy label
hey roissy yo!!
throw a beat over this way.
yo yo yo yo
yo yo yo
now hit it!
one cock rule one cock rule
i ain’t no beta fool i ain’t no beta tool
about another cock ya make me think
i’m gone, yo bitch,
let the betas buy yas yer next drink
one cock rule one cock rule
i ain’t no beats fool i ain’t no beta tool
over vampires and werewolfe you ginas all drool
letting their cocks touch your deep down stool
then you blame the betas in school
and transfer wealth for the bernanke gene pool
jonah goldberg sends our alphas 2 die on foreign shores
stuffing his face with dc pizza as they die in fiat wars
neocon womenz repeating butthexers lies in their mags
even after menopause and no need for da ragz
telling young chickas to lust after vampires
as they build their fiat empires
one cock rule one cock rule
i ain’t no fool i ain’t no tool
about another cock ya make me think
i’m gone, yo bitch,
let the betas buy yas yer next drink
let the betas pay to raise your bastard kids
let the betas sign teh fiat masters marriage contracts
theft in fiat inflation is hid
as they swing their bankrupting axe
as they promote butthex across the land
ripping out fetuses from parenthood planned
as fathers form teh homes the neocons ban
the atalnatic authoress just don’t undertsand
but when she wakes up and her butt is sore
it’s not my fault no–it’s cause she’s a whore
as the fiat masters desoul women with butthex cock
teach them to transfer wealth with pre-teen strumpet rock
one cock rule one cock rule
i ain’t no fool i ain’t no tool
about another cock ya make me think
i’m gone, yo bitch,
let the betas buy yas yer next drink
womenz womenz bernanke took advanatge of you
you wasted your best years on vampires and werewolves
and now you cry your tears cause of your sore anus
stamp your little feet saying, “you betas must pay for this!!!”
and aging neocon women promoting butthexing vampires
teacxhing women to lust after the undead
as the neocons suck the western world dry
bankrupting it all,m enlsaving it debt
while selfish womenz at the atalnatic monthly
cry cry cry
cry cry cry
not for you or me
but for themselves
not for the 50,000,000 aborted souls
but for their dried up ginas and sore assholes
so many chances they had to marry a nice guy
but he left her dry
so whe butthexed with the asshole
and now see her cry
and wonder why
and transofrm the entire univeristy
into a program to further the fiat lie
to transfer wealth and wage war and death
to about fifty million more
and redefine fifty cocks in her ass as empowered
and not a whore
all together now!
lzozllzzl lozlzlz zlozozoz
lozlzl lzozozlz ozlzooz zlo9oo
lozlzlz ozlzoozl ozlzlzoz lzozlz zlzoz zlzozzlozlzozlo
one cock rule one cock rule
i ain’t no fool i ain’t no tool
about another cock ya make me think
i’m gone, yo bitch,
let the betas buy yas yer next drink
alreayd seen yer pink stink
bent ya over the sink
and howscomes the bankers southpark never does satarize
because everything is fair game–truth love honor–excpet for fiat butthexing lies.
all together now!
lzozllzzl lozlzlz zlozozoz
lozlzl lzozozlz ozlzooz zlo9oo
lozlzlz ozlzoozl ozlzlzoz lzozlz zlzoz zlzozzlozlzozlo
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I haven’t read the Atlantic article, but I think that the hookup culture is tough on women. If you are from an urban area and your parents are not religious then the men that you mix with simply do not accept no sex before marriage. I had other boyfriends before I met my husband, not a ton, but more than I would have liked. He and I talk about how he wouldn’t have waited a year to sleep with me (until after we were married) if I had been a virgin. I think that it is trajic. I wish I had never been touched before I was married, but I don’t think I ever would have gotten married if I hadn’t been. I don’t think I ever ‘hooked-up’ with anybody in the sense that I think is meant here, but I don’t think that there an appreciable difference between having had previous boyfriends or a one nightstand. Both mean that you’ve been touched by other men and I think that that is something most women don’t in fact want. I know I didn’t. So in that sense a culture that makes it near impossible for a woman to date without having sex does seem like it does a terrible disservice to women, in my opinion anyway.
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OMG greatbooksformen (LOLZ-Guy) –
That was beautiful poetry bro. Even though I thought you were a crackhead based on your interference signal (LOLZRZ), it is now clear that you are a poetic talent of sorts.
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“i.e. a chick who lets you sob on her shoulder but won’t let you sob in her cunt?”
Lmfao, beautiful.
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I know I’ve mentioned it before but if No. 1 is beta, so are at least half the men running around in manhattan.
though they do have a different explanation for the whole ‘if it makes you happy, go forth and bang’ attitude. Something along the lines of they aren’t going to stop . . .
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I’m a gay guy who just started reading this blog because it’s pretty friggin hilarious. It gives me some great insight into the hetero world.
The post from anonymous directly above has brought me out of lurk mode because it is the type or unintelligible garbage I hear from women all the time. Anonymous – what the fuck are you talking about? Are you saying you fucked those guys, but you really didn’t want to, and you now regret it? If that is the case, you are lying. Stop acting like your pussy is some kind of magical jewel encrusted fabrege egg.
Anyway, what I am trying to figure out is why do women constantly lie about their intentions when it comes to sex? For instance, when a gay dude gets drunk and hooks up with a regrettable partner, he simply chalks it up to a case of beer goggles and laughs it off. When a coddled suburban white girl does this, she is a victim and she writes an editorial in the school newspaper about date rape.
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Yeah I’m with ya PUMA, lzol guy has a definite talent for free verse.
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Greatbooks for men, I misjudged you.
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Awesome. Please keep these BOTM posts regular. What a bunch of sad-sack (no sack?) losers. Voted for # 2.
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“and howscomes the bankers southpark never does satarize”
have you seen the margaritaville episode? it’s close but not quite the real deal. You sound like you have the irreverant humour to write a southpark episode, i really wanna see a SP take of ben bernanke+helicopter.
Every time i read one of your posts i think of the “stupid spoilt whore” episode lolzozlozlzoz
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Seth. I’m not saying I was raped or that I didn’t make my own decisions. I’m just saying that from my vantage point this culture is sick and I wish it weren’t. It is harder than you think to remain a virgin until marriage and I do regret that I wasn’t, but I don’t really see how I would have gotten to know my husbad if I didn’t have sex with him. In a culture that teaches men and women that it is good to have sex out of marriage, I felt it was impossible to not. Men won’t wait when they can have sex with a multitude of other women. I don’t think of my vagina the way you described. It jst makes me really sad to think about having been with other men. Like there is simething profoundly less special about my relationship with my husband that I. Wish I could change.
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#1 isn’t necessarily beta, if they have a polyamorous arrangement in which he can also fuck around on the side.
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no the fact he insists on a call to know she is safe while she is fucking around shows the betaness. My booty calls can do what they want in their own time but i don’t wanna hear their voice unless it’s screaming my name while they are fucking me or see their face unless it’s on the end of my dick.
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Seth, you said it before I could. Somehow “the culture” made her do it, “the men that you mix with” made her do it, but never, never could she have impaled herself on the cock carousel as a result of her own freely-made decisions. Blame everyone else but me!
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that by definition makes him a beta. have you seen the dudes that are involved in polyamory? they’re mostly new age hippies with ponytails and birtkenstocks who’ve been convinced by some feminist battleaxe that letting her get other dick is progressive and enlightened.
what good reason is there for a man to have a polyamorous relationship? the point of a relationship is to enjoy the exclusive love and admiration of a female. it’s highly unlikely that any women out banging other dudes will be able to continue respecting you and remaining attractive to you. conversely, it’s relatively easy for a guy with some game to enjoy companionship and sex with a woman, or better yet women, without having to commit.
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anonymous –
I’m sorry I was being a little mean. Sometimes I forget actualy people write this stuff. I didn’t realize you had strong religious convictions. I can respect that.
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No. 1. Uncle Fred has forgotten that as a man you have to demand exclusivity even if you don’t mean or expect it. It is a matter of form and expected of you; its really in the nature of good manners. If Uncle Fred marries in his future he can aspire to the anecdote from Thompson’s Hells Angels where a SWPL and his wife pal around with the “cool” “hip” Hell’s Angels until they rape the wife in front of the SWPL.
No.2 demands closer examination. Did anyone notice how freakishly close the hair style of the “bad boy” matches that of the bad girl? It’s almost like she found her male double. Mr. “bad boy” doesn’t exist in her mind, he’s really only a prop in her Thelma and Louise moment. When she has sex with him, she’s really having sex with her idealized “bad-girl bad-boy” self, kinda like Annette Benning’s character in American Beauty when she takes up with the “king” of real estate. I don’t think you can characterize the “bad boy” as a “bad boy”. What kind of alpha would agree to help the straying wife “start a new life”? At best, she’s only worth a contemptuous pump-n-dump. I think she’s puppeting both of them, so they’re both betas. Do two betas outweigh Uncle Fred?
Apropos teaching moments from American Beauty:
A good effort, but its really too late to win back your wife with a display of alphaness when she’s already hooking up with another alpha. Notice how she tries to frame Spacey’s behavior as beta when its really alpha. At this point all his behavior does is create cognitive dissonance for her; she’s invested in straying already, and Spacey’s character is supposed to continue acting beta so she can feel justified.
How to handle infidelity – “You don’t get to tell me what to do ever again”.
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I think Roissy/CR trolls himself as ‘greatbooksformen’
But either way, you’re still great fun to read GBFM.
(Oh I voted 2, though in hindsight it should be 1. A guy wil ldo stupid things to keep his family together. Guy Number 1 has no known ties to his gf, if she is his girlfriend)
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lozlzlzozzlzl
i know the chickas form the atantatic monthlys gotta wakes up
the solution is simple
women must save their gina tingles for marriage to one man
or become used up whores with dry ginas and sore anuses lzozlzlzlzlzlzl
but pleeese pleasse pleassess stop lying and saying that all girls really want is boyfrinds when what thye really want is butthexing vampires and secretive tapes of butthex as that is what they go for and what they do and what they fuck and suck and it isn’t a secret so please please please stop it iwth the bitchy little lies lzozlzlzlzlzl
see what they’re missing is that neocon butthexers write sex and the city and neocn butthexers sexulaize little girls and promote and repeat tucker max’s lies in the pages of teh weekly standard holding him up as a hero lzozlzoz lzozlzoz lzoz even though he videotapes butthex without the gir;ls consent and publishes and promotes and profits from it with the help of women=lead puiblishing houses and neocon womez and the weekly standard.
see the fiat masters profit off porn and war and decline and tempting and taking and then they move on to the next culture to suck its blood and enslave it al to butthex and gina tingles and debt zlzozlzozozlzlzlzl and war in the homes calling it hjustice the whole way on down 2 hell as they care not and do not give a fuck and clap when slphas die on foreign shores ain foreign wars and clap when fifty million are ripped from wombs and sent to their toilet tombs as abortion is the neocon’s premptive war just as are tehir foreign wars on foreign shores just as their womens studies classes teach women to launch premptive wars on tehir future beta husnabands and plan how to get the betas assetss and give a cut to bernanke who is doing gods work lzozllzzlzl as the neconos profit immensely out of inflating and deflating fiat bubbles lzozllzozzlzlzo converting worthless computer buts into physical porperty and fund womenz to cry cry cry cry cry about how the betas must step in and pay for all the anal soreness the alpha cocks waged lzozllzlz and the necon make vampire movies to show that even though they are vampires who suck the living blood and life out of cultures before collapsing them and bankrupting t them it is good for girls to lust after vampires andundead monsters lso0slloz zlzlz zomg zlozzllzllzlzlzlzzl
thank god for roissy and one or two other heroic souls out there
otherwise one could go bnuts lzozlzozolzlzzl!
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realist: I see what you mean. I missed that.
j r: Granted, most people who self-identify as polyamorous are weirdos. But going furhter, even if we stipulate that the guy somehow comes across as an otherwise-regular dude who genuinely doesn’t care if the girl fucks around, there’s still the question of whether entering into such an arrangement is tactically sound: perhaps doing so looks wimpy or wishy-washy and causes the girl to lose respect for the guy, whereas if he just straight-up said something equivalent to “listen, I’m gonna fuck other girls, and you’re only gonna fuck me”, she’d be more likely to respect him and stick around.
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Does Roissy not see the clear sarcasm in the commenter’s responding to #1, about “empowering”? and in the following sharply put question about “testing the arrangement”?
Perhaps my filter is off because English is not my mother-tongue.
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I chose “B”
I was going back to basics.
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““and howscomes the bankers southpark never does satarize”
have you seen the margaritaville episode? it’s close but not quite the real deal. You sound like you have the irreverant humour to write a southpark episode, i really wanna see a SP take of ben bernanke+helicopter.
Every time i read one of your posts i think of the “stupid spoilt whore” episode lolzozlozlzoz”
lzozlzlzlzlzlzl
never in a million years would the southparkers satarize ben bernanke in a helicopter lzozlzozlzlozlzlozzl
that is because their main mission from viacom is 2
1) dumb us down
2) butthex the fuck out of all that is sacred
3) call jesus a pig fucker lzozlzlzozlzlz
southpark suckths ass
it is for betas, hatas, mastabetas, and aging womenz wondering why their ginas are dry
and their butts are sore and
why only cats, but no kids,
walk in and out their door.
lzozlzlzlzlzlzl!
because the neocons fucked your great books and religion and cultural tradition in teh ass with southpark lzozlzllzlzlz!
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Anonymous, it’s not too hard to say no if you know what’s on the other end of yes in a hook-up situation.
Deferred marriage is actually the thing that makes it harder for women, not really the premarital sex itself. Instead of having one serious suitor who starts courting you in your teens and marries you in your early 20’s, you end up with multiple false starts.
Teenagers aren’t encouraged to take their relationships seriously too often. The few families who do take them seriously are called “primitive” by others.
I don’t mind being called primitive. If folks dropped the ball with you, then just chalk it up for experience, and don’t drop the ball with your kids. Raise them to grow up on time, and like me, actively check out guys who might match with her well starting when she’s about 16. Some might be ready earlier, but that’s about the age a girl who was raised to be responsible can handle a serious courtship without screwing up.
Every generation has its dysfunctions. So don’t regret the past. Learn from it and move forward.
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Dave
nice analysis, the movie was my first intuitive understanding of the alpha/beta dichotomy in LTR.Love the way the loudmouth looks at him,her mouth agape after spacey flungs the dish at the wall.
Her dried out pussy probably roared into life.
Seth
Don’t care man, girls’ tears only just better than their words.
GBFM
Dude you always crack me up.The Dionysian to Roiss’s Apollonian.
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I picked #1.
#3 seems to have other (fame-based) motives.
#2 seems so trashy as for me to hardly even care about them.
#2 Kind of reminds me of Bateman’s line to the bum:
“I’m sorry , its just that, I don’t know, I don’t have anything in common with you.”http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbGJ7p6t6yE&feature=related
I simply can’t look down on the #2 beta …or praise the #2 “badboy” as an alpha, because…
well, I just don’t have anything in common with them.
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Seth — given that you have the sort of brain-damage that causes you to desire sticking your cock into another man’s anus, what makes you feel that you can tell a) heteros what is normal and b) females what is normal. Female inhibitions to sleeping around are not religious in origin. Anymore than gay male’s preferances for massive bathhouse orgies are. It’s biology all the way down.
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Speaking of clueless articles on the hookup culture, I present: No hooking up, no sex for some coeds
My personal favorite is the massive denial about what is actually going on:
It’s a recurring, drunken activity that isn’t the proudest moment for student Frannie Boyle. After consuming large quantities of alcohol before a party, her night would sometimes end in making out with a stranger or acquaintance.
Making out, eh? I think GBFM would have a more accurate description of what the nice catholic girl did for a year before deciding to be pure.
But maybe I picked a favorite too soon. This one is a gem as well:
In Kelly Clarkson’s song “I Don’t Hook Up,” she addresses the dominant hook-up culture: “I do not hook up, up I go slow, so if you want me I don’t come cheap.”
So now “I don’t come cheap” is the model of female virtue?
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GBFM – you never cease to amaze me, those rhymes were gold.
“All together now!! Llozlzlzlzlzl.”
Heh,
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#1 is just not as egregious as your usual BOTM candidates. He certainly fails by asking his girlfriend to call him (several times?!). I mean, _if_ you’re a fan of open relationships and really don’t care about your girlfriend sleeping around, couldn’t you turn that aloofness to your advantage? The line at the end is pretty good, “She is young and I would rather her have a good time while she can.” Can you imagine that directed to a girlfriend in response to the usual “how about an open relationship” jealousy-provoking routine: [without even looking up from the paper] “Yeah, sure, you’re young, you should have a good time while you still can.” Only works if there’s still lust in the relationship and if the boyfriend’s aloofness game is excellent in other areas, too, but I could imagine a somewhat-older alpha using that line against wannabe-polyamorous girlfriends in his harem to great effect.
#2 isn’t that original, but is such a paragon of unhappily-married-beta behavior, that classic combination of dumb, oblivious, willfully oblivious, and spineless. He seems like a nice guy… to take advantage of.
#3 would be the best pick, except that it’s a hoax. Though I wonder what _that_ says about his relationship. Is there such a thing as pretending to be an extreme beta just to troll people game?
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Looks like the link to the hookup article didn’t come through on my last post. The URL is: http://www.cnn.com/2010/LIVING/04/19/college.anti.hookup.culture/index.html?hpt=C2
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I voted #2. A cuckold is a cuckold is a cuckold.
Also, as for next month, check this libertarian guy out:
FIRST, he dares to make a slightly pro-male argument:
http://whiskeyandcarkeys.wordpress.com/2010/05/14/foodies-beware/
SECOND, he gets slightly shamed: http://whiskeyandcarkeys.wordpress.com/2010/05/14/aaron-and-manhood/
THIRD, he then he bends over himself, wrining his hands apologizing for it:
http://whiskeyandcarkeys.wordpress.com/2010/05/17/ouch-thats-not-fantastic/
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Nicole, that is what I did. I always took my relationships seriously and had a couple serious boyfriends with whom it didn’t work out (as I should have expected given that I was 18 and 20 and they were roughly the same age – not ready for marriage). I met my husband who is a decade older than me when I was 22. Stil though, I have a lot of regret over my sexual past and I don’t want my daughters to experience the same thing, but unless there is a cultural swing back to traditional values I do think it is very hard for a woman to find a man willing to wait until marriage. By the way, I am not abdicating any personal responsibility. I do, however, think that we live in an extremely permiscuous time and yes I think it is trajic. That said I know I didn’t have to sleep with anybody I didn’t want to. And things worked out for me, but still it is profoundly sad that waiting until marriage is not only not promoted culturally, but it is viewed as backward.
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I’m going to bring up the possibility that #3 was court ordered to display the placard. Some judges will do this. The humiliations imposed on divorcing or accused men by the court’s orders can be pretty extreme.
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If that’s real and not a radio station prank or something, than I vote for #3.
Verbal abuse? What the fuck is that?
Not something worth the public shame of wearing a damn sign that’s for sure. What happened he called her a “bitch” and now she’s so hurt by it, she’s not giving him anymore poon?
Yeah, that shit’s stupid. He’s topping the list IMO.
They are all bad though. SMH.
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“GBFM – you never cease to amaze me, those rhymes were gold.
“All together now!! Llozlzlzlzlzl.”
Heh,”
Thanks yah but all the props go 2 roissy lzozlzl
4 he has much more pati9ence than i do as i too quickly descend into my lzozlz zlzoz lzlzl zlzlzllzlzlzes
roissy in da house in da club
all the womenz want that foot-long roissy sub
on it their mouths go “glub glub glub”
den he’s chillin’ in da bath, rub a dub dub.
and she’s home with her beta pouting
“whas wrong sweety” the betas asks
while out her vagina roissy’s cum is spouting
as the beta does his share of the household tasks
zlzozlzllz
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anonymous:
Classic ex-post female rationalization.
There are plenty of betas out there that don’t break up with their girlfriends if she denies him sex until marriage. You just aren’t interested in them. You want the alphas, like most other girls, and when someone has oligopoly power, they are in a position to make demands, which you then willingly acceded to.
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Welcome back.
It’s gotta be “B” – the arch-cuckold, promiscuous only in granting forgiveness to his tranny-faced trollop of a wife.
The Atlantic commenter is probably an omega with a “platonic” (that foul word) lady acquaintance who grants him an occassional kiss, while “not wanting to ruin what we have”. Besides, he hasn’t married her.
“C”, the sign guy, has got to be a joke. Dig the Patrick Bateman suit and the impassive expression – part time actor, anyone?
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By the way,
GreatBooksForMen would make a far better Atlantic writer than Flanagan.
And polyamory is beyond Omega. It’s the behaviour of bonobo’s – the loser Great Apes.
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Chainring, I don’t think that is true. Not in my experience anyway. I don’t think I was interested in alphas. I never dated a man who treated me badly or who was cruel. I did date men (including my husband) who put me in my place sometimes, but that is what a man should do. I did date men who wanted to lead. I am not rathionalizing anything. I’m just explaining things from my point of view. That is how I feel the world is. I think it is really hard to find a man who will wait! I’m not saying they are to blame, but just that that is how it is! I also don’t agree with the calling some men betas and some men alphas all men have a variety of qualities – just like women! Some beta qualitied like kindness and tenderness are needed and so are some alpha qualities like desire to lead and, for lack of a better word dominate. I couldn’t be with a man who would forgive me if I cheated. I would not be able to respect him. Women (or at least I) need appropriate rules and expectations. That’s another problem with this culture: men are taught to ignore what is natural to them. They are taught that it is wrong and oppressive to tell a woman what to do, to expect her to behave a certain way. So, if you mean that I wouldn’t have dated any of the above men and that they would have gladly waited until marriage for sex, you are right. I would never have dated one of these men. I think it is sad that boys are taught that it is wrong to be boys. I think it is equally sad that girls are taught that it virginity isn’t imporant.
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Anonymous,
There is nothing special about female virginity. And I don’t care that your pedestalization is wrapped up in some religious nonsense. That makes the basis for your misguided notions even less forgivable.
That being said, it is important that a woman is careful with her sexual conduct. And it appears that you have been. Whatever grief you are experiencing is self-inflicted. Just stop it. And don’t pass that guilt trip on to your children.
Unless you’re wanting your daughters to find some fringe fundamentalist husband someday, they need to live their lives in the present like you did and not in the regretting future that you currently exist in. The successful and responsible men I hang out with would view a virgin over the age of 21 as a big red flag. It signals religious wacko/headcase big time. I would probably still ask her out on a date, but she would have a lot of splainin’ to do for me to ask her out a second time.
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Anonymous, the real problem is going to be finding guys who are willing to marry at all. You may have to learn to be okay with unofficial commitment/cohabitation or betrothal until the first child, in which case you just have to find one who is trustworthy with a strong sense of honor.
Such men are relatively rare, but not extremely hard to find. In Christian communities, you have the option of a non civil, orthodox/Arab Catholic style betrothal, so it shouldn’t be a huge problem.
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#2, because THAT’S the “bad boy” she cheated on him with? jesus christ
he looks like Michael Stivic from All in the Family
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“Sidewinder
Anonymous,
There is nothing special about female virginity. And I don’t care that your pedestalization is wrapped up in some religious nonsense. That makes the basis for your misguided notions even less forgivable.”
lozlzlzozlzozlzlzozlzlz
“There is nothing special about female virginity.”
unless you want kids instead of catz lzozlzl
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Sidewinder, a woman doesn’t need to be religious to not want to get used. If she simply hasn’t found a guy who doesn’t want a pump and dump by 21, then keeping her legs closed is the smart thing to do.
There are plenty of women who are doing it. I don’t have to push my daughter to go out and do necrophilic aerobics with a guy who cares nothing for her, just so her notch count will be acceptable to other guys who pump and dump under the pretense of a “relationship”.
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GBFM,
Give me a break. If you’re holding out for Snow White, you’ll be the one lonely with cats. I certainly don’t advocate whoring it up, but a woman needs to be responsive to the relationship that she is in, not setting up arbitrary boundaries based upon some relationship she may later find herself in. You got to live your life as a genuine person.
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anonymous – when you say there is something profoundly less special with your husband what does that mean in practical terms? Is he resentful of the prior relationships?
Dave – Damn good analysis on those American Beauty scenes. My only beef with that flick is the ending…He should have screwed the young blonde to make his alpha conversion complete.
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@ Nicole,
Who said anything about allowing yourself to be used, or to be promiscuous at all? Anonymous was regretting earlier long term relationships she had with other men her own age. If anything, she was “used” by the status leverage her husband worked on her.
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Genuine women don’t want to have to force themselves to resist bonding, Sidewinder.
Resisting is what a woman has to do when she’s with someone who she doesn’t trust to stick around. It’s unnatural, unwomanly, and exhausting.
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“Sidewinder
GBFM,
Give me a break. If you’re holding out for Snow White, you’ll be the one lonely with cats. I certainly don’t advocate whoring it up, but a woman needs to be responsive to the relationship that she is in, not setting up arbitrary boundaries based upon some relationship she may later find herself in. You got to live your life as a genuine person.”
lozlzlzolzzllzz lzozlzlzlz lz zlzozo
omg lzozlzlzl zlz lz lzlz lzoz zlzlzoz
omg lzozlzlzl
you musta hadda a lotta cocks in your mouth and anus and gina but never knwon love lzozlzlozzlzl
except for that kinda luv
you feel when you say “here kitty kitty kitty” lzolzlzlz
i’ve sperminated in so many now destined 4 spinsterhood smarty pants lawyers that i can spot you a mile away even without yer cats lzozlzl
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anonymous,
You are making sense and you sound like a good woman whom your husband is lucky to have. The one thing that strikes me as wrong is your contention that your husband would never have dated you if he couldn’t have sex with you before marriage.
Maybe this was true in your specific case because you had slept with other men before you met him. But if you had actually been a virgin, he would probably have been willing to wait. Although some men don’t appreciate virginity, a man like you described your husband to be, *who is looking to marry and is dating someone 10 years younger than himself*, would definitely value it.
If your husband says that he really wouldn’t have considered dating a virgin, then you probably did get lucky because your experience made you a possibility for him; but if that is true then *he wasn’t actually looking to marry before he met you*, and it was only falling in love with you that changed his attitude towards marriage. And if that really is the case, you can view your previous regretted relationships as providential (they made it much likelier you could have gotten together with your husband and changed his attitude towards marriage by being such a prize).
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“There is nothing special about female virginity.”
Sidewinder- have to disagree with you there. Virginity has always been prized, and it’s nothing to do with religion.
It’s to do with the fact that a woman who’s had many partners is probably not a good prospect for marriage (she can’t control the old gina tingle), and virginity is one sure indicator she hasn’t been riding the old carousel, as Roissy might say.
“It signals religious wacko/headcase big time”
Not necessarily. She might just have a good degree of self-control (a refreshing change from a lot of modern girls). Granted she’ll be hard work to land – you just gotta decide if you think she’d be worth it. But I wouldn’t write off a lady because of her adhering to what women were always supposed to do, up to forty years ago.
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@ Nicole,
Sounds like you’re unable to separate from some of your own past baggage. Women AND men in relationships bond with one another and invest themselves. And most relationships don’t work out. And both people are disappointed, even crushed sometimes. Physical sexuality is part of that bond, sure, but we live life and take risks understanding that sometimes we will get hurt. Again, don’t scarecrow my argument, I’m not advocating reckless sexual behavior.
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stupid question:
granted you all think getting married ia beta period BUT,
is it more beta to put up with bullshit from a woman who you are actually married to, or less?
two of the men putting up with bs are putting up with it from women who are “girlfriends”, ie haven’t even nominally promised in front of the man and the state to even try to be faithful and stick around for life. seems to me attempting to keep a legal marriage together is somehow less weak than attempting to keep a mere “girlfriend” around by letting her keep riding the cock carousel
i may be wrong.
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“Seth
anonymous –
I’m sorry I was being a little mean. Sometimes I forget actualy people write this stuff. I didn’t realize you had strong religious convictions. I can respect that.”
@Seth-
Just because your gay doesn’t mean you have to act like a homo. If you intend to hang out around here, I’d toughen up real quick. It won’t be long before you get attacked for your bi0-chemically predetermined life style choice. Getting in tune with your inner bitch might help, but just make sure to use your male logic, or you might get verbally ass raped by heteros who don’t know about the importance of lube.
T-Man-
“Megan, I’m sorry for slapping you around. But you did deserve it, so be my bitch again. For the other ho’s reading this: my number is xxx-xxxx”
Highlarious! Someone should make the sign and hit a heavy foot traffic corner for a while with it just to see how people react. Make sure to record the audio.
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@ cap n’ bob,
I don’t deny that there is a historical and even anthropological basis for the pedestalization of female virginity. And in another culture, or another time, a female’s virginity could be a decent proxy measuring her virtue or at least self-control. But that’s not the world we live in (and don’t kid yourself; we haven’t lived in that world for over 150 years), and its not the world we would want to live in. Western culture is actually at war currently we the dominant culture that still supports such religious shaming of human nature. If you want virgins, go live in Saudi Arabia and do their thing. Western culture abandoned these dark ages several hundred years ago for the most part.
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“Sidewinder
@ Nicole,
Sounds like you’re unable to separate from some of your own past baggage. Women AND men in relationships bond with one another and invest themselves. And most relationships don’t work out. And both people are disappointed, even crushed sometimes. Physical sexuality is part of that bond, sure, but we live life and take risks understanding that sometimes we will get hurt. Again, don’t scarecrow my argument, I’m not advocating reckless sexual behavior.”
Yah no shit sidewinder!!!!
“And most relationships don’t work out.” you say.
oh yes they do!!
i put my cokc in your soulless pre-spinster ass, take it out put it in tyake it out put it in take it out put it in take it oult and yah yha ynha oh yes oh yes oh yes splloooooooge goes my baby juice all over you tramp stamp lzozlzllzlzl!!
then i take off.
what didn’t work out about that?
it worked out just great!
a bit of kleenex to cleanup your tramp stamp and your beta boyfirend will never know i was just at your bakc door if ya know what im taling about lzozlzl
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GBFM,
While I am laughing at your post, I am actually a middle-aged man, with wife and kids. No offense Seth, but given my male hetero station my life, GBFM’s post is pretty disgusting. I do have a tramp stamp, however.
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“Western culture abandoned these dark ages several hundred years ago for the most part.”
Wow, you’re right up there with BOTM Candidate #1.
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in the washington post a week or so ago, jessica valenti had some pieve about how virginity is a meaningless concept and we’d be better off getting rid of it. you can read it here.
that article is nonsense and basically just a contemporary woman’s claim that she should have the freedom to do whatever she wants, but should not have to face any social consequences for her actions. it’s typical feminism of the ‘i want to have my cake and eat it too’ variety.
all that said, why on earth would i want to marry a virgin? why would i want to marry a woman with whom i have never slept? that whole concept just seems like a severe anachronism. the only real problems arise when a man with little experience marries a woman with a lot of experience. she’ll be constantly testing him for weakness and he will likely be unable to pass those tests. if your relationship game is strong enough and her numbers aren’t extreme, there’s no point in focusing too much on her history.
i knew plenty of dudes in the army who married their high school sweethearts. those guys didn’t get cheated on any less than other guys. in fact, maybe those marriages fared worse, because these girls got married at 18 or 19 with no knowledge of experience of the wider world. as they got older, they got curious about all they had been missing out on. maybe marrying a virgin makes sense if you live in a small closed community, but otherwise it just seems silly.
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polymath wrote:
You said it better than I could have. A man who is looking to marry will value a woman’s virginity. In fact, celibacy until marriage is an excellent strategy for weeding out the players. We will all give up on this sort of girl . . . until we are ready for marriage, and then we might well yearn for such a woman.
But if the woman has already spread her legs for other men, why would the marriage-minded man be willing to wait? One of GBFM’s all-time great quotes applies: “If you gave it away for free to other men when you were younger/hotter/tighter, why would any man want to pay for it now?”
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“Sidewinder
GBFM,
While I am laughing at your post, I am actually a middle-aged man, with wife and kids. No offense Seth, but given my male hetero station my life, GBFM’s post is pretty disgusting. I do have a tramp stamp, however.”
omg that is funny how bernanke’s media trained middle-aged men with kids to think like girls and yearn for ass rammings from alphas lzozlzlzlzlzll
say it isn’t so!!
lzozlzoozlzlzlzlzlzol all over your tramp stamp dude lzozlzlzlzlzlzlzl i personally am not a sodomite but the weekly standard fatures them as heroes so chceck it out lzozlzlz
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I feel nauseated just reading about the contestants.
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@ Anony,
You’re right. What was I thinking? Being obsessed with whether a woman’s hymen is intact is clearly alpha. Only a beta would be so aloof as to not be concerned.
A broader point to editor: when did the site’s definition for alpha become hijacked by religious traditionalists?
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“Western culture abandoned these dark ages several hundred years ago for the most part.”
Sidewinder
– The “depedestalization” of virginity is a far more recent event than that. Going by history books, probably started in the late 40s- early 50s, just before the Pill (driven by novels, and the aftermath of WWII).
– “If you want virgins, go live in Saudi Arabia and do their thing”
There’s a slight difference between a woman not partaking of the cock carousel and a Wahabbi Islam tyranny.
In general, men go for women with less experience, rather than more. It’s a good guideline if you want to avoid starring in Beta of the Month.
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“Sidewinder
@ Anony,
You’re right. What was I thinking? Being obsessed with whether a woman’s hymen is intact is clearly alpha. Only a beta would be so aloof as to not be concerned.
A broader point to editor: when did the site’s definition for alpha become hijacked by religious traditionalists?”
when did your butt sand the weekly strandard become hijacked by bernanke?
llzozlzllzlzlzlzlz
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“In general, men go for women with less experience, rather than more”
Forgot to add – for relationships that is. I suspect the opposite for one-night specials.
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Sidwinder, I understand that you don’t think you’re promoting reckless behavior, but you are.
Sometimes stuff happens that we have no control over, but not purposefully walking into a sham with a big neon sign over it saying, “I’m very likely to leave you heartbroken!” is something we have control over.
Recently, the mainstream has lied to women that it’s just “part of the game”, but it never was until it was made so in the west in the past 30-40 years.
Now that more of us are aware of that, the sane among us who managed to have kids, aren’t going to tell the same lie to our daughters.
Some socioeconomic “beta” who is a potential alpha in his home out there who actually wants a decent woman will be happy that we doomed one less man to a lifetime of spanking and skanking.
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Whoever wants Tiffany Tehan can have her. I cannot figure out what the benefit is.
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@ Cap’n Bob,
I agree that men prefer that they have more experience than their female partner. But that’s a lot different than a man preferring a virgin. I’m sure some dudes go for that, but I do not know any.
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I should be chosen beta of the month, and guys, to much talk to little action, get out off your semi depressive state, don’t be such wussies, some of you, are just purely gaming yourself to feel comfortable, well, hahahahah you only fool yourself to feel at ease, no one else will see it that way, ha.
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@ biktopia,
What are you talking about, woman?
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Roissy,
Why don’t you do ads on this site? You could probably make decent money…
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“as they got older, they got curious about all they had been missing out on. ” And you’re a guy? This sounds like some crap I could have read in Cosmo. Girls and guys think differently (which if you’re a frequent reader here, you’re probably aware of that). And you’re trying to pass this off as “sophistication” (as you said, “experience of the wider world”) If that’s genuinely the case, then I feel sorry for your friends.
The curiosity/novelty/experimentation male mindset doesn’t apply to the female species. Where do you draw the line as a female with that mindset? I’ll double my number, triple my number? F-ck like a rabbit until I get an STD, nah, everything’s better in 3s, I’ll stop at 3 STDs. With a curiosity mindset, there’d be no upper limit? Where does it end? Why stop at all?
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Sidewinder, an intact soul or psyche is more important than an intact hymen, I agree. Many men in the past did marry women who weren’t virgins. Some hardcore Muslims today even marry women who have been married before.
However, a long string of serial monogamy is cause for suspicion that a woman may not have the ability to bond. If she hasn’t kept a man, then perhaps the day is coming that she’ll break his heart. Guys, as you’ve said, have hearts too.
Do you figure a woman with a long string of female styled pumps and dumps is so different than a man who does the faster paced version?
It’s not about the simple fact of having shagged another guy in one’s lifetime. It’s about the intent.
It’s not wrong to be a hoe or extremely sexually benevolent. It’s just not what most guys are trying to commit to.
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Sidewinder –
“I’m sure some dudes go for that, but I do not know any.”
Depends on where you live, even in the West. But then again, from a pretty conservative (non-Islamic) background myself.
That said, I don’t think that a man’s status as Alpha or otherwise depends on the morals of women who are drawn to him – it depends on the physical calibre of the women who’re drawn to him.
Which means that pretty much any shtemp in Hollywood is more alpha than any of us.
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“A broader point to editor: when did the site’s definition for alpha become hijacked by religious traditionalists?”
Try agnostic.
why does everyone equate virginity and religious extremism?
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Biktopia
I agree we need some more women on this thread, the guys are clearly getting bored.
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Related to one of your recent posts..
7 year olds performing- “My Boyfriend’s Back”
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Betas 1 and 3 are a relatively new phenomenon of douchiness. However, forgiving adultery goes WAAAAAY back among the no-no’s.
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#2. The ugliness of the girl sends it over the top.
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@ Nicole, you keep trying to artificially force the argument into some false dichotomy between virginity and “being a hoe or extremely sexually benevolent”. The fact that you can’t envision a woman living an honest and genuine life involving more than one sexual relationship is a dead give-away that you are indoctrinated in a strict religious sub-culture, or are damaged goods.
I have a wife and kids, too. It doesn’t entitle me to some special position of authority on the subject.
I do agree that it is about intent. And in our modern culture, where a woman doesn’t get married off at age 15, women and men often have several relationships based on their particular station in life. They likely have a first love relationship in high school, date in college, often resulting in a connection that turns into a long term relationship. But most of these relationships don’t work out. Sure, it could be that the woman got restless. Or maybe the guy got restless, or maybe the relationship was fundamentally flawed for another reason. Or maybe they moved to opposite ends of the country for work or further school…
I could go on and on. Just to summarize, after I finished professional school, and began dating as a “alpha” or “lessor alpha” in my city, I would have looked very skeptically at any woman who was a virgin past the age of 22. Maybe its a class/education level difference, I don’t know. But like I said, I hang out with a lot of successful men, and I don’t know a single one who was ever looking to marry a virgin. Maybe they thought like that in high school when they put pussy on a pedestal, but not as grown men.
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T-man,
The only brain damage I had was being castrated at a very young age by an unstable emotionally needy drug addicted mother. In other words, I learned my lesson early.
Now I don’t have to bother with females at all and I probably have a more satisfying, unconflicted sex life than most of the people who post here lzozlzozozlolzolzozlzolzozzz
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hymen, virginity, 10’s, how many one nights she had and how old she is,,do you want to bond to a CV or a real person???
We need more chicks to this post, agree 🙂
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I vote #1. The third guy, it might be a court order, or a stunt. I don’t know. The second guy, is probably thinking about the kids. As a practical matter, if he wants custody, saying BS like that is required to keep his options open. Going nuclear while satisfying emotionally guarantees her custody. Simple facts.
Which is why I voted #1. If you have options, are not married, its actually WORSE in my view to tolerate cheating. I would not tolerate it for a second, nor would I even tolerate suspicion. I’d drop the girl, in a heartbeat. Being alone is better than being a cuckold in any relationship period.
If you have any worth and self-respect at all, the bare minimum to demand is sexual fidelity. PERIOD. Women of course are happy to share Alphas. Draw your own conclusions there.
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Seth – Welcome to the (Hetero)Manosphere. Stick around, take some notes, and tell your friends.
We are going to need the combined strengths of ALL MEN in the coming legislative battles and the dark days ahead.
If the FemiNazis have their way, your people will be shackled, taxed, garnished, and farmed along with the rest of us. Simply for the crime of posessing a Y-chromosome.
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No1 could be a renaissance man if the girl in question is a fuckbuddy or he gets more of her than what she gets out of him…maybe he wants to get rid of her?maybe he wants to pimp her out? it’s hard to tell…
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One more point and then I’m out:
I’m tired of religious kooks using the word “conservative” to describe themselves. It is misleading if a poster doesn’t indicate the religious basis for the moral position. Religious people are some of the most dishonest people in this regard. They know if they reveal the religious basis for their position, they will be rightly dismissed, so they dishonestly hide it.
Being a religious person does not make you a “conservative.” Conservatives in economics or jurisprudence place a premium on propositions supported by reason, not faith beliefs in supernatural legends or supposed sacred literature.
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What type of man would devote his life to a women who has had 10 men before him?
A man might live with her, have a kid with her, but, he would never take a bullet for her, IMHO. And, he would split when convenient.
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no. it’s not. i’ve had plenty of fuck buddies and fading relationships where i did not care if they were with other dudes, but not once did i ever ask the girl to call “me a couple times so I know she is safe.” even my platonic female friends no better than to expect any thing as ridiculous as that.
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@ biktopia, then why don’t you post something other than your vague critique of everyone’s else’s discussion? Do you have an opinion on virginity, hymen’s, one night stands, 10’s, GBFM’s penis?
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I voted one-night stand man (#1) but looking back I think the bigger Beta is #2. One Night Stand Man, for all we know, may have been currying the favor of his female overlords on that predominantly female-read online article…still Beta, but as Beta as forgiving your wife for walking out on you and cheating?
It’s a difficult decision to make.
#3 could be practising some form of forward thinking shame-empathy game. I mean, he looks like a jackass, but I’m willing to bet you could open some chicks with that humiliating sign…not willing enough to do it, but women aren’t exactly difficult to fool.
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barring extreme numbers, why exactly should i care how many men my hypothetical wife has had?
this attitude makes vagina out to be some kind of rare commodity that should be hoarded and given out to only the most worthy men. that’s the attitude that makes so many men into betas.
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BigBadRich, all I mean is that I wish he could be the only one to have ever touched my body. He isn’t too critical of my past as comparatively speaking I was restained. I adore my husband and he is the most wonderful person I have ever know. All I mean is that two others were there first and I wish they hadn’t been.
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Sidewinder, the average age of marriage in our grandmothers’ times was still in the early 20’s. The difference between then and now is that courtships and commitments were taken more seriously. That some women were legally permitted to marry before 18 had nothing to do with it. It was about the intentions.
You’ve grossly misread me. I myself am agnostic, and have no particular nostalgia for days gone by. I am however able to compare approaches to sexuality and marriage, and religiously motivated as it may have been, the serious approach was the best.
The reason so many relationships “don’t work out” today is because people don’t take them seriously enough. They don’t get into them with the intention of making it last.
Alpha males are a different type than average and have different needs. You’re probably not going to have your life irreparably torn apart of your wife leaves you, but half of another guy’s income or assets might be too little for him to live on, much less support a new family.
So it’s in your interest for as many women as possible to ride the cock carousel and increase your variety (even though the number of hot chicks doesn’t increase and the surplus of okay chicks just makes it look like there are more than there are).
For the women you and your peers aren’t interested in committing to because they’re too ugly or fat or uncultured or whatever, and the guys who are left holding their dick while waiting for those women to figure out that you and your peers aren’t interested in them though, serious relationships are best.
The needs of the many outweigh the whims of the few.
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#1! For crying out loud, he’s saying his gf could multiple times do what #2’s did and he’d be fine with it!
#2 at least can save face by arguing he needs his wife to raise the kid, so he’ll suck it up until the kid can hit school age–6 or 7—when the kid’s away most of the day at school and sports and activities, so he doesn’t have to babysit.
#1 is allowing himself to be a bitch pre-being a bitch.
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I would say i agree with you Sidewinder,, i don’t want to make long posts as im tipsy, what i want to clear is that, all the things that would look good on paper, like whatever the person have experienced or not, should not count as much as this blog give weight on, one should judge the person, right in front of them in that time without a decade of grief, because if you choose away somebody because of anything else but real feelings is a fool. And don’t get me wrong, it is very important to judge the person, but not of the wrong reasons, if one is smart enough, one will be able to see the whole picture, and not be mixed up in between whats important and whats not. (virginity and etc)
Anonymous, you made some decisions you don’t like, it shouldn’t matter, you are not suffering from a chronic disease from your past behaviour, and you seem to have a good husband and life, why complicate things.
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@ Nicole,
Relationships (non-marriages) don’t work out because life is a hell of a lot more complicated today. My first serious relationship was when I was 17 years old. In our society, is a 17 year old equipped in any way to support a family? Of course not. So, being a responsible 17 year old, I stayed out of trouble and went to college. This required me moving to a different city and state. In this environment, I met new people (as did my high school girlfriend at her college). Let me cut to the chase, I am married with two kids, and my old high school girlfriend is happily married with 2 kids. I’m sure that I’ve slept with a lot more people than she has, but I know her number is at least 3 or 4. And here’s the moral of the story: she is a much better wife and mother now than she would have been had she married me at age 20 or something. She lived, loved, got hurt, grew as a person.
I don’t know why you keep saying this cock-carousel nonsense. In looking for a mate, I wanted a mature person who had lived, loved and learned. I wanted someone who knew herself, and knew what it took to make a relationship work. It had nothing to do with wanting her to have hoe’d it up. The point is that the number is largely irrelevant (unless its so high that it necessarily correlates with slutty behavior). Like you said, it comes down to intent. And all I want to see in a woman’s sexual history is that intent to live and love honestly.
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Devil’s Advocate,
Those 3 girls look like they come from the same group as in the other post. Does anyone know where and when that dance contest was held?
Those vids are going to be internet legends. They are not quite as disturbing as Psychogirl, but they’re so much less NSFW that they’ll have a larger overall impact.
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biktopia wrote:
Yeah, that’s just what we need. More women (with some exceptions) offering up useless comments, general attention-whoring and engaging in flirtations with those guys who haven’t figured out why women tend to bring down the quality of serious discussion.
But as always, women perceive men-only groups/discussions as a threat, and feel the need to intervene. Interesting that men do not feel the same way. Go have fun at feministing, I promise I won’t bother you there.
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biktopia,
anonymous does not actually have a problem, she is just expressing a legitimate regret. I don’t see why people should have such a hard time understanding why regret is an appropriate attitude to have.
Sidewinder,
Of course it is possible for a woman who has had several boyfriends to be able to form a good bond with her husband, and no one is saying virginity is necessary for this. But although it is not necessary, it is, absent unusual personality dysfunction, sufficient. Sexual bonding is a chemically mediated process whose capacity, in most women, is diminished by promiscuity. A man who wants to marry a woman who will be securely sexually bonded to him is therefore going to improve his chances by valuing virginity. This is not to disparage the bond that can form between partners who have both slept around — that bond CAN be just as secure, but it is less likely to be.
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The atlantic article touches on Roissy’s obsolescence. His “polygamy” analysis is largely a function of generational issues relating to Millennial & Gen X (nihilist) / Boomer (narcissist) women. Taylor Swift types (16-20 years old) are romantic idealistic (as western women have often been for the last few hundred years) and hence less oriented to polygamy and have hopes for love and romance. If you are a single man, you have a target in your crosshairs for the perfect wife… one of these 18-20 year old Taylor Swift types.. impossibly gorgeous, talented, funny, innocent, idealistic, yet adventurous. I have one and would never date anything else. find one of these chicks, walk away from the table, cash your pile of chips and count yourself lucky.
[editor: polygamy is not the same as hypergamy. the female hypergamous impulse never changes, but cultural conditions can change how that impulse is expressed. while the taylor swifts yearn for monogamy, they are still doing the bidding of their female natures. flanagan completely misses that influence on the dating market, and how feminism and the rest have helped women pine many more years for their perfect alpha lover while their eggs waste away.]
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“biktopia
hymen, virginity, 10′s, how many one nights she had and how old she is,,do you want to bond to a CV or a real person???
We need more chicks to this post, agree 🙂 ”
lozlzlzozlzlzl yeah more chix with dix lzozlzlzozlzl
i wanna bond with a cv mostly lzozlzl
cv = cunt’s vagina
lzozlzlzlz!
pw3d!!!
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what is UP with the long-haired guy? Bad boy he is not.
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Sidewinder says, “Relationships (non-marriages) don’t work out because life is a hell of a lot more complicated today.”
I don’t think it is more complicated than the 1930s. Maybe you and I have a different definition of the word. I haven’t had to worry about the KKK being able to harass and kill people and get away with it, or worry about water mocassins while doing laundry, or live without currency.
“My first serious relationship was when I was 17 years old.”
…which ought to tell you something.
“In our society, is a 17 year old equipped in any way to support a family?”
One could be if properly raised. If my 17 year old is having sex, then they’d better be prepared for parenthood. I make sure that mine is even though she isn’t currently active.
Tending animals helps with that.
“Of course not.”
It’s not an of course. It’s a fact of your life perhaps, but not people who don’t believe in unnaturally extending childhood.
“So, being a responsible 17 year old, I stayed out of trouble and went to college.”
…as did and do many parents.
“This required me moving to a different city and state. In this environment, I met new people (as did my high school girlfriend at her college). Let me cut to the chase, I am married with two kids, and my old high school girlfriend is happily married with 2 kids.”
Of course you wouldn’t have thought to bring her with you. Heheheh…
“I’m sure that I’ve slept with a lot more people than she has, but I know her number is at least 3 or 4. And here’s the moral of the story: she is a much better wife and mother now than she would have been had she married me at age 20 or something. She lived, loved, got hurt, grew as a person.”
Whatever lets you sleep at night.
Is this how you justify all the women you’ve hurt? that they are stronger because of it?
Very nietzschean, but wouldn’t the hardship of being a young couple in school have provided enough drama to toughen her up? Would it have cost the two of you more to cohabitate during college and wait until after the first degree to have children?
My parents managed to do it, and with one child (me).
“I don’t know why you keep saying this cock-carousel nonsense. In looking for a mate, I wanted a mature person who had lived, loved and learned.”
Like your high school sweetheart who you dumped for new conquests?
“I wanted someone who knew herself, and knew what it took to make a relationship work.”
…and learned this by having multiple failed relationships instead of the hard core romantic fervor of a fresh woman untainted by the cynicism of feminism.
“It had nothing to do with wanting her to have hoe’d it up.”
No, just broken up into shattered fragments. Do you not think that heartbreak is damaging?
“The point is that the number is largely irrelevant (unless its so high that it necessarily correlates with slutty behavior). Like you said, it comes down to intent. And all I want to see in a woman’s sexual history is that intent to live and love honestly.”
If a woman who is not naturally a courtesan lives and loves honestly, she loves for life.
…and every lost love is a broken dream that lessens her belief that someone will love her back with the intensity with which she loves.
…and love, for a woman, is worship.
When a man leaves, at least for a moment until she’s able to steel herself, God has died.
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Chainring, why so serious?
I do like this blog, i like it because the perspective Roissy gives on life, i less like the botm or where if dc has hot chicks or not, sometimes, this blog can fly high up, and i like to read the posts and learn from them, then comes along some weird shit, which i mostly ignore, but as i’m tipsy tonight, i just had to comment,
weather or not, you are talking about women, not soccer or ice hockey, and it concerns me as well.
[editor: your gravatar is small, but with a little squinting you look like a polish girl i used to date.]
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Sidewinder,
Even Roissy agrees that it is far better to marry a virgin (if one is going to marry). Is he now some sort of fundamentalist? We get the point; your wife wasn’t a virgin and you are cool with that. No one here is arguing with you.
[editor: practically speaking, in america 2010 it is nearly impossible to find and marry a virgin, particularly if your hunting grounds are the cities. my reason for arguing that it’s better to marry a woman with fewer past partners than a woman with many past partners is that the sluttier girls are a higher risk for infidelity. and this isn’t just idle musing on my part. studies have shown (i wrote a few posts with links to such studies) that girls with more partners than the average are indeed less faithful in marriage.
now if you’re just looking for a sexual fling, sluts are good for business!]
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“The atlantic article touches on Roissy’s obsolescence. His “polygamy” analysis is largely a function of generational issues relating to Millennial & Gen X (nihilist) / Boomer (narcissist) women. Taylor Swift types (16-20 years old) are romantic idealistic (as western women have often been for the last few hundred years) and hence less oriented to polygamy and have hopes for love and romance. If you are a single man, you have a target in your crosshairs for the perfect wife… one of these 18-20 year old Taylor Swift types.. impossibly gorgeous, talented, funny, innocent, idealistic, yet adventurous. I have one and would never date anything else. find one of these chicks, walk away from the table, cash your pile of chips and count yourself lucky.”
lozzlzllzlzlzlz !!!
OMG!! CASE IN POINT!!
TAYLOR SWIFT LIKLEY FUCKED A WEREWOLF THAT TAYLOR LAUTNER DUDE !!! Lzozlzllzlzlz
how many cockas do you think she will have before and after before and after before and after before and after she gets married?
lzozlzlzlz lzozlzlzlz lzozlzlz
OMG.
all the vampire-longing for gina-tingling longing for romance is coming from girls who are trained to take massive amounts of coakcage and give nothing in return in the way of loyalty and motherhood and ormance and honor and trust and humility and chasitity and modesty and giving up a life working for fiat dollars form fiat beta bernankes to return to teh home and let the man be the master of the household as it was truly intended and form where all true romanxce derives lzozlzlzo zlzozlzl zomg
roissy is not obsoolete but it sounds like your cock is lzozlzlzlz!
no need to blow the dust of it–it don’t get erect no more lzozlzlzlzlzl zzllzozzozozlz omg looozers
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Polymath,
The research findings do not support your hypothesis. It is the over-educated and elite northeast that has the lowest divorce rate. (Mass, NH, Conn) They get married at a later age, making it more likely that both husband and wife have had previous relationships.
What relationships were found most likely to divorce? Those with brides or grooms under 20 (virgin age) from working class backgrounds, predominantly in the religiously conservative south.
I’m not familiar with the chemical bonding that you refer to, but maybe its the same as the chemically-induced infatuation that young teenage virgins often feels towards their first significant other. I had sexual relationships with a couple virgins, (in one I was a virgin as well)…no special bonding there.
[editor: the predominant reason that younger marriages suffer more divorce than later marriages can be summed up with one word: options.]
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Nicole,
Your posts get better every day!
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Interesting, I may have learned a new word today, “Beta.” I used to call these “follow-up freebies,” because upon devouring the free roaming food they themselves let go unchecked, they would show up later on, all sobs and tears, demanding their food mate back.
The thought that falling into the maw of a hungry creature far greater than they are may actually be an irreversible fate never occurred to them, apparently.
The food’s primitive intellect is so amusing.
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Sidewinder, there’s the saying that “shit rolls downhill”. Whenever there’s a destructive shift in cultural norms, the lowest status people are going to be the ones worst affected.
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@ Dalrock,
Not only was my wife not a virgin, but I do not know a single woman who was a virgin when she got married. Not one. Wait, maybe one. And my friend divorced her within a year.
And no offense to the editor, but his is just one opinion. And in the context of our discussion (qualities we’re looking for in a wife), I think I’m a little more qualified as a happily married man with children, than our caddish editor.
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Regret is fine to certain point, that should happen some weeks or month later one did a silly mistake, to remember something that you regret years later when especially when everything is fine will become a problem, and anyway i don’t think there is anything to even regret on her side.
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“biktopia
Regret is fine to certain point, that should happen some weeks or month later one did a silly mistake, to remember something that you regret years later when especially when everything is fine will become a problem, and anyway i don’t think there is anything to even regret on her side.”
ya after the cock go ram ram ram ram
and teh girl go yah! yah! yah! oh yah! oh yah!
she cries on the beta’s shoulders saying
“how could he pump and dump me? wahaha wahahah waahhhh! i regret i ever spread wide for him wahaha! wahahh!! men are assholes!!!”
lzozlzlzl zlzozlz
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editor: practically speaking, in america 2010 it is nearly impossible to find and marry a virgin, particularly if your hunting grounds are the cities.
Fair enough I guess. Things could have changed a fair amount since I met my wife in the early 90s. But Sidewinder is going much farther. He says a virgin over 21 is a red flag. Granted my wife was younger (19), but I wouldn’t have had a problem had she been a few years older.
I think the problem comes in with much older women (late 20s, early 30s), but only if they have unrealistic expectations that they are more valuable as a 30 year old than they were in their early 20s. But then the problem isn’t their virginity, but their sense of you owing them for their own pickyness.
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Sidewinder, we’re not saying that it’s impossible for a woman who has had multiple partners not to bond. We’re also not saying that virginity until paperwork is necessary.
What we’re saying is that the more a woman gets used to sex without bonding, the more she twists into something less than womanly.
…and the more heartbreak a woman endures, the harder it is for her to get into a new relationship with the same hopefulness.
The term “damaged goods” isn’t always a malicious label. Sometimes it’s just a description of someone who was doing things that are harmful to their psyche, or have been psychologically damaged by things done by others to them.
A person can recover, but you can’t un-know something that you know or un-experience something that you’ve experience.
I think it’s much more rational than to figure that women are the same as men and can bounce from cock to cock with no psychological repercussions.
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Grrr…that should have been, “Sidewinder, we’re not saying that it’s impossible for a woman who has had multiple partners to bond.”
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“editor: practically speaking, in america 2010 it is nearly impossible to find and marry a virgin, particularly if your hunting grounds are the cities.”
yah bernanke and his central banking friends made damn sure of this
the best way to conquer men is to desoul and butthex their owmen–hence their ny publishing houses publish and promote tucker max lozlzlzl and their neocon magazines repeat his PR lies for a) profit and b) debasement and debacuhery
lzozlzl omg lzozlz
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Nicole,
Let me start with the positive. I think you make a good point about lower status people feeling the effects of cultural shifts first.
Concerning your evaluation of my first serious relationship:
While you had no way of knowing this, my relationship with that girl was terrible! I still have nightmares where I’m about to marry her. And then I wake up and hug my wife. She is a good person, but we did not have compatible personalities. Even in the few times I’ve seen her in the past 5 years, she’s like fingernails on a chalkboard to me. But we were from a small town, and honestly, we were afraid about growing up and moving on. there was some co-dependency between two people that should not have been together.
And that’s why most marriages between virgins under 20 end in divorce. They don’t know what they don’t know. They know how they feel, and they want it to work out, but they don’t even know themselves, much less their “spouse”.
I tend to agree with you that maturity is relative. Even 40 years ago, people did not move around as much, people didn’t have to be in school until age 26 to have a good-paying job…but there’s no good in crying over split milk. We don’t live in that time anymore.
But men feel just as much heartbreak as a girl if they are invested in the relationship. Sorry to make this an autobiography, but it was really dealing with the break up of my last long term relationship that made me into the man capable of marrying my wife and being a husband/father.
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“And in the context of our discussion (qualities we’re looking for in a wife), I think I’m a little more qualified as a happily married man with children, than our caddish editor.”
I don’t get your logic. No one would ever get married then, would they? Qualities you’re “looking for” presumes you’re not married but have an ideal in mind for your future wife. Each potential candidate either meets or doesn’t meet that ideal. Some “candidates” might approximate that ideal more than others. You’re now happily married, but how would you know if you wanted to marry or not marry your wife prior to being married? You had to have some sort of standard in mind?
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anonymous–
Very good point. This is certainly true. It goes way beyond men being told not to tell a woman what to do though.
Basically men are taught that whenever women get their own way that that is right and empowering; but that it’s shameful for men to be in any way dominant or even leading unless perhaps that’s been clamored for by the girl.
Your point about how the abundance of sluts these days makes it much harder for good girls to date these days without themselves putting out much earlier than they would like — or at all before marriage — is certainly true. It’s another instance of Gresham’s law, actually. Easy sex tends to drive out the ability to hold out for commitment sex or marital sex only. Or away to enjoy dating guys without having to soon sex them.
Some girls can still pull this off in high school but it seems pretty tough to do by college.
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I think the issue with virginity is that in today’s society it is socially normal to lose your virginity at an expected age. Not following societies norms shows a deviation away from said norms. It’s been shown that in faces people often think that the face that is the most “average/normal” is the face that is most attractive, when developing a prototype for our mate, perhaps the same holds true personality features. People want mates that follow the typical paths of society, nuclear families, typical interests etc. At least they want this on paper.
“and engaging in flirtations with those guys”
Maybe I’m flirting blind but I don’t see anyone here flirting with anyone else. Can you site some examples? I’m curious now.
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You’re confusing “polyamory” in general, which runs a much wider gamut, with “hotwifing / female-driven polyamory”, which, yeah, is walking death for the guy.
[editor: dedicated and avowed polyamorists do tend to occupy the loser middle aged men and dumpy women bracket. which makes sense, since those with the least options also have the least room to demand anything from a partner. now turning a blind eye to a hot little minxy fling who likes to fuck around might be the smart play for the aspiring alpha if all he’s interested in is keeping the slice flowing, but if he has girlfriend ambitions he’d be better off finding a less cock-focused adventurous girl who doesn’t normally itch for MMF threesomes or tingle-invigorating dalliances.]
There are couples in which the man is very “alpha” but doesn’t have the slightest problem with whoring out his wife. Notice the language — “whoring out his wife”, NOT “his wife’s whoring around”. This has varying degrees: it can range from mild exhibitionism, such as making her wear slutty clothes when they go out together, all the way to full-out whoring in which he sells her body and takes all the profits.
The common thread, of course, is that the man should still be the one in control. In any of these situations, a single instance in which the woman instigates an outside dalliance of her own volition should mean curtains, regardless of what she’s doing under her master’s command.
—
Re: Virginity
I agree that virginity is seriously overrated… for some.
If you don’t have sexual presence, confidence, and dominance, then, yes, you should probably look for a virgin, or at least as close as you can get.
But if you are the type that is “alpha” enough (sigh… lack of a better term) to make a woman with sluttier inclinations WANT to be exclusively yours, then virginity is, if not actually a red flag, utterly irrelevant.
[alphas get cheated on too, if not at the same frequency as betas. virginity is a bit unrealistic, but demanding a female partner with low past lover numbers is not. and the reason is more than just finding a girl with a lowered likelihood of future infidelity. a relatively chaste woman will worship the cock she does spread for in a way that more experienced girls can’t, and never will. call it the ‘knobgobbling comparison metric’. the more cocks a woman has entertained, the less each individual cock has the power to amaze her. and this goes for alpha males as well. even if you are a super stud, you will have to work double time to cast a spell on a slut than you would on a more modestly experienced girl.]
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“They know how they feel, and they want it to work out, but they don’t even know themselves, much less their “spouse”. ”
I’m straining to understand you here. Really, I am. Knowing yourself? Define please. What age does that full “knowledge” kick in? 25? 30? 40? Christ, it’s possible to die while waiting to figure out “who you are.” I dunno. I just don’t buy it.
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Sidewinder–
Feminist alert.
Status leverage is the name of the game.
It’s entirely natural for women to date men ten years older than they are, despite feminist ideology and propaganda to the contrary.
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Roissy wrote:
Excellent point. As an extreme example, take Sasha Grey – she has experienced so much with so many men. Is there a man alive who could cast a lasting spell on her?
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LOL @ # 1. So it’s “empowering” for a girl to be allowed by her boyfriend to go slut it up with random hookups, getting STDs and possibly pregnant. And I’m sure he’ll do the right thing and help raise the strange alpha’s spawn when she decides she doesn’t want to kill it. What a chump. Reminds me of a free love hippie dude from the 60s. Also, WOMEN AND FEMINISM created the hookup culture but now they’re bemoaning it? Lol whatevs
LOL @ # 2. Yeah, the scrotum-head beta thinks it’s “supernatural”. A ghost came in one night, dematerialized your cock and balls and slipped them in your wife’s luggage before she vanished with her new stud.
LOL @ # 3. I’d never stop laughing if I saw this on the street. In fact I’d probably stop and ask him what the f*ck he’s doing. No one can be that clueless unless it is some court-ordered nonsense. He deserves to be peed on.
All of these worms make me want to vomit. GBFM has the right idea with his One Cock Rule.
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@Sidewinder
Say what? Tramp stamps are for female sluts to mark themselves as such, hence THE NAME. Why would you have one if you’re a guy? You must be deeply confused, unless this was odd sarcasm that I missed.
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“It’s entirely natural for women to date men ten years older than they are”
–this is completely true. A very natural power dynamic forms, which I have always found ideal.
[editor: as someone who routinely dates younger women, what i have found is that many women will balk *initially* at a large age difference, but once that beachhead is stormed, and she has given her body over to the older man, the age difference and whatever objections she might have silently nursed or even verbalized early on will evaporate. a charming personality and powerful presence are like magnets to a female hard drive filled with ascii dating do’s and don’t’s — the sectors will be reformatted.]
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“Excellent point. As an extreme example, take Sasha Grey – she has experienced so much with so many men. Is there a man alive who could cast a lasting spell on her?”
lzzollolozlzozozozlzozzlzozo
is there a man alive who would want to cast a spell on her, or anything else for that matter, other than a six roper sememn blast? lozlzl
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@ Roissy
Too simplistic.
[editor: one man’s simplisme is another man’s clarity.]
There’s obviously a correlation, but it’s just that — a correlation. Correlations have outliers.
[true. but should the average man bank on outliers?]
There are definite sluts who can still worship a man (including but not limited to his cock) with breathtaking intensity.
[yes, and i’ve been with one like that, but in my experience the most intense romantic surrenders were by women with fewer rather than greater numbers of past lovers. the girls with… histories… tended to be… ah how to say?… squeezing of the charm out of life. jaded, yes.]
And, worse, there are “good girls” whose “goodness” is nothing other than exceptional self-control for womanipulative purposes.
[i understand these women exist, but as i have lived many of my most sexually productive years in big blue cities it’s been rare that i’ve come across this type, so my urgency in denouncing the virginal cockteases is a bit muted. however, as a PSA, i hereby denounce all you churchgoing teases for any future infractions you may commit against my ragingly insatiable libido.]
These are the most dangerous females of all, actually, since they have a scary degree of control over both their physical and their emotional drives. They won’t _ever_ really fall in love, and they’ll amp up the mercenary nature to the max.
[this is a different degree of good girl that i steer clear of as soon as i get a whiff she might be pulling the ol’ wait and see game with me. nothing much worse than winding up with a girl who has a very low sex drive and doesn’t feel a need to satisfy my own. but the low sex drive girl is a subset of the chaste girl. in fact, many girls with relatively modest sexual histories can explode with abandon in bed once they meet the right man. the trick is to observe her closely during those first dates… is she working hard to keep from jumping your bones? that’s a good sign she has a healthy libido. but if she seems like she could go on for months of dating without a single horny urge pushing her to impulsively grab at my crotch, then yeah, i’d figure i was dealing with a dusty muff.]
I suspect that you are fully aware of the presence of such outliers, and are just making a point for maximum rhetorical points.
[my middle name is maximus biggimus.]
No man with more than passing experience with women could believe that a slutty history _automatically_ means less cock worship, with r = 1.
—
@ Chainring
Of course there are such men, just as there are women who will arouse in inveterate rakes a desire to marry.
The world isn’t as black and white as you think, mister “virginity is everything”. Go out and meet some people who aren’t like you.
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What we really need is a list of words that trigger moderation on this board. What the hell triggered moderation for my last post? the block quotes?
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i have a poem for roooooissyyyyy!
ahem…
there once was a sexy cute girl named me me memsy
who likened roissy in dc to a daisy
when one evening she sent
a cute posty message to him
and he wrote back to tell her she’s crazy!
😛
[editor: allow me!
there once was a girly so sprightly
whose love landed heartwise a’lightly
when one starry night arrived
her sensuous form undisguised
and the sight of her did so delight me!]
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Well, at least it wasn’t a pansy.
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i have a poem for roooooissyyyyy!
ahem…
there once was a sexy cute girl named me me memsy
who likened roissy in dc to a daisy
when one evening she sent
a cute posty message to him
and he wrote back to tell her she’s crazy!
—
If this is real I take back my earlier remark.
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I never know how to spell this — I don’t like the double apostrophes, but it also looks really wrong without the second one.
I’ve settled on “DOs and DON’Ts”, case sensitive.
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Epoxytocin No. 87 wrote:
I never claimed virginity is everything. Ironically, it is you who has painted my comments as black and white.
Virginity (or relative chasteness) is a factor, in a long list of factors that include looks, upbringing, etc.
Nobody is seriously contending that r=1. It’s all about tipping the probabilities in one’s favor. A girl who was raised by a single mother and took 50 rides on the cock carousel may indeed turn out to be a devoted and loving wife. I’d rather take my chances on a near-virginal girl raised by her biological parents, and whose father and mother had a functional male-female relationship with the father as head of the household.
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Epoxy–
The ideal thing might be a few previous lovers only in relationships none of whom were very thrilling for her, but good loyal guys and “looked good on paper”. You come along and are genuinely the first time she’s every really adored a man. Strong bond.
I think Roissy’s right though that once a girl has her heart really broken a few times especially if she’s also ridden long on the cock carousel, he ability to DEEPLY bond goes way down. As well the length of time for which she’ll really bond declines as well.
That doesn’t mean she has to divorce. She may believe it’s time to settle down, chooses a good enough and exciting enough man for her, and sticks with that. That’s I think what lots of women up the SES scale do and part of why their divorce rate is lower.
However, should e.g. his career falter harming his self esteem and hers takes off, the chances of her staying are probably much less when she’s got a lot of cock carousel in her history. Her basic loyalty isn’t as high most likely, in addition to an only weak “in love” feeling, esp. over time as he goes down in hypergamous eyes.
That’s assuming she still has enough pulling power herself to think she can do better. Or maybe she’ll just want to ride the fling alpha-ish carousel again, having missed it while married and feeling she’s no longer “in love” (though she still may “love” her ex), and with a good enough earner paying her indentured servitude.
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^^^^^”I think Roissy’s right though that once a girl has her heart really broken a few times especially if she’s also ridden long on the cock carousel, he ability to DEEPLY bond goes way down. As well the length of time for which she’ll really bond declines as well.”
DUHUDUDDUDHDHDHD!!
DUH!!!
every single religion was based on this premise lzozlzlzzozlzlzlzl
2 many cox does not a good wife family mother make lzozlzlzlzlzllzlzlzlz zlzozlzllzlzlzlzl
as a amtter of fact, cox outside of marriage does not a good mother family wife makelzozlzl
ben bernanke and his neocon friends understand this bvery well which is why they celebrate amnd promote butthexer scretive taoper of butthexer oduchbag liar tucker max to desoul womenz and travel around and desoul thme all lzozlzl by sticking his beta fiat cock in them lzolzlzand their anala al
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IIRC, the percentage of women who are virgins, have only had sex within marriage, or who have only had premarital sex with their eventual husbands is about 25%. Chaste girls are a decided minority, but they aren’t vanishingly rare either. They are very findable, if you know where to look. I have some suggestions here.
[editor: 25% is a surprisingly large number. i’d have figured maybe 10% or 15%. this number has got to be seriously weighted to the rural red states. it’s probably closer to 50% in some rural communities while the big cities are down in the single digits.]
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#1 by a mile.
#2/#3, while repugnant, don’t get to the heart and soul of what it means to be a beta quite like #1.
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“IIRC, the percentage of women who are virgins, have only had sex within marriage, or who have only had premarital sex with their eventual husbands is about 25%.”
Is this globally?
I could buy this if the data include enclaves like, say, Saudi Arabia. But in the US? No way.
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anonymous, I don’t even need to consider your “idea”. It fails for one simple, and obvious reason.
Your “idea” heroically gives YET ONE MORE advantage to women. While, of course, giving no advantage to men.
Also, anonymous has reconstructed her life completely. She was well on her way to becoming a slut when the 32 year old pulled her into his orbit and saved her.
I mean really, +3 partners by 22? She was adding almost(or more!) a partner a year since 18. And all women start out “slower” and then speed up as they get older. By 30 I would expect someone like her to have around +20 if still single.
What “good girl” cred she has is entirely a result of her husband taking her off the market.
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CW says, “What “good girl” cred she has is entirely a result of her husband taking her off the market.”
That’s how it has always been. Well, for women with a sex and reproductive drive anyway.
Our drive may be lower, but that is a relative thing. We still do actually get horny, and definitely get lonely.
So when you take a woman off the market, an angel gets its wings so to speak.
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I don’t think there are very many chaste girls who have an exceptionally low libido – no more than in the more promiscuous crowd. I don’t think having sex with many different partners means that you have more sex. I also think girls who get married to men they adore, who don’t enjoy sex with a multitude of different partners (or the idea of it) are the ones who are more likely to feel (and enjoy the feeling) of being owned by their husbands. My sex drive is equal to my husband’s, I would never deny him my body. That’s not marriage in my view. I definitely wouldn’t take a woman’s desire to sleep with very few men (ideally one) as an indication of low libido. It might mean that she often enjoys sex for the feelings of love she experiences for her husband during sex, but that also don’t mean a low libido. I don’t think that that is a bad reason to love physical intimacy. I think it’s a great reason.
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Sidewinder,
Time to deconstruct your comment.
The research findings do not support your hypothesis. It is the over-educated and elite northeast that has the lowest divorce rate. (Mass, NH, Conn) They get married at a later age, making it more likely that both husband and wife have had previous relationships.
You are making an elementary statistical mistake. Controlling for everything else such as age at marriage, region of the country, etc., there will be a positive correlation between the number of sexual partners the woman has had and her likelihood of staying faithfully married. That’s all I said. The fact that couples in the Northeast get married later means they are less likely to make an immature decision, but that’s a separate factor from how promiscuous they were before getting married. If you are going to conflate those two relatively weakly related variables, of course you won’t be able to see the relationships they separately have.
What relationships were found most likely to divorce? Those with brides or grooms under 20 (virgin age) from working class backgrounds, predominantly in the religiously conservative south.
Duh, SFW. It wasn’t their virginity it was their immaturity. But I’ll bet you a lot that those 20-year old brides who were actually virgins were less likely to divorce than the ones who had multiple partners. (Also, it’s not virginity at marriage that’s relevant, it’s that the husband was the first partner, whether or not the couple waited for the wedding night or not.)
I’m not familiar with the chemical bonding that you refer to, but maybe its the same as the chemically-induced infatuation that young teenage virgins often feels towards their first significant other. I had sexual relationships with a couple virgins, (in one I was a virgin as well)…no special bonding there.
The bonding I am talking about is a very widely observed phenomenon, that is not infatuation (though it can build on it), but is related to oxytocin levels and other brain chemicals. It affects women more than men, typically causing a woman’s attraction to a man to increase markedly after they have begun to have sex with him, as she gets used to and learns to like his unique physicality. It is called by such common terms as “being attached”, and narrows the woman’s focus so that other men become much less attractive in comparison. Women who have had a large number of relationships tend to feel this less intensely.
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@ polymath
You’re making a more elementary statistical mistake: you’re writing “positive” where you mean “negative”.
Those kind of mistakes are my territory, man. Watch it.
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omarion:
It’s U.S. data.
It really does depend on which circles you run in. The film critic Pauline Kael famously said she was surprised that Richard Nixon had been elected president because she didn’t know anyone who had voted for him. This is analogous.
[editor: on a related matter, one thing that’s always bugged me about the GSS and similar data gathering instruments re: attempted measurements of female chastity rates is how they rely on self-reporting. one, what woman isn’t going to lie about her sexual history, and two, definitions of sex change with the zeitgeist. anecdotally, there is plenty to suggest that girls are conveniently redefining sex to preclude blowjobs and anal love. so, yeah, maybe some chick could get by on a technicality that she’s only had five past lovers, but if she’s gobbled 20 knobs on the downtime that’s not exactly going to speak well for her marriage-ability.]
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Yoda — get serious man. Swift’s image is just that. IMAGE. In reality, she’s banged a bunch of guys, including a Jonas Brother, any number of producers, one of the Twilight dudes, and so on. The only difference between Swift and Ke$ha is the latter is more honest about how she lives.
What happens with educated women who marry older, is that they find pretty much disgust with their husbands, who are “Kitchen Bitches” instead of hot, dominating Alphas they had sex with, but could not tame into marriage. They have maybe one yuppie baby. Then, perhaps, discreet affairs which their loser husbands tolerate because they can’t get any other women. But for the most part you get single motherhood by choice. The percentage of illegitimate births is 41% nationwide. The nuclear family is dead.
Women want Alphas, and single motherhood, over a boring Beta husband and boring Beta baby. Pretty much most women would want to have a hot Alpha’s kid alone than some beta guy’s kid, even if the latter would marry her. A big Wedding party (for her) is of course another matter.
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@ Lozlzl guy
Um, no. Try again.
The association of marriage with “bonding”/eros love/oxytocin/etc. is a relatively recent invention. It’s daft to claim it as the basis for religious prescriptions that predate it by thousands of years.
The premise on which the religious prescriptions are based is biological legitimacy, not emotional bonding.
Duhududdudhdhdhd!!
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The divorce rate plummets if the girl is at least 20 when she gets married. IIRC, it also plummets if the guy is at least 25.
[editor: in an advanced developed nation teen marriage is probably not a good idea, but is it any worse an idea than 40 year old women sauntering down the aisle for their first marriages? in real estate it’s location location location. in nation states, it’s demography demography demography.]
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@The Rookie
“Who’s down for running a train on candidate #1′s girl?”
Is she hot?
@Thursday
“IIRC, the percentage of women who are virgins, have only had sex within marriage, or who have only had premarital sex with their eventual husbands is about 25%. Chaste girls are a decided minority, but they aren’t vanishingly rare either. They are very findable, if you know where to look. I have some suggestions here.”
Are they hot?
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Dave
How to avoid infidelity – “Don’t tell me what to do, bitch!”
Polymath
Sidewinder pointed out that virginity is not sufficient, and gave examples.
Dalrock
That has always been the model of female virtue. Sidewinder seems to be the only voice here who notices that a woman not selling her pussy for either commitment or money is more virtuous than a woman who sticks to either bargain. A woman who loves for the sake of it, without slutting it up, and without an eye to extracting every last ounce of time and attention from her man, is more authentic than any marriage-whore.
Selling virginity to your betrothed is just whoredome.
Likelyhood of being faithful. This concept is bandied around here as a proxy for “I don’t want to compete in the sexual marketplace, and I’m happy to de-emphasize sex altogether in order to accomplish this”.
Likelihood. Likelihood. Likelihood. But then people who put forth that arguement about likelyhood ignore all the variables and factors the genuinely contribute to the likelyhood of a girl straying. They overemphasize the obvious, and miss the forest for the bush.
If it was really about likelihood of cheating, then you virgin worshipers would be willing to focus on the divorce rates of the generation that both did marry as virgins and had access to birth control. Here’s a hint – it’s about the same as it is now.
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Beyond all that has been said about a woman’s ability to bond after experiencing other men, I think there is a basic question every man needs to answer when considering marriage (2.0):
Sure I love you and all, but why the f*** would I marry you?
For those willing to marry at all, her virginity can be one part of the answer. It certainly isn’t sufficient, but for many it will be necessary.
I would also add that I think “born again virgins” and all related nonsense are probably worse than any but the worst sluts. They’ve already convinced themselves at least once that there are no consequences for their sexual choices, and are willing to double down on the sexual blackmail to get their way. Two very bad signs when considering a potential wife.
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@ Doug
I think this is essentially accurate.
I also note that you and I are basically the only ones here who bother to differentiate between “number of previous relationships / broken hearts” and “number of previous lovers / cock carousel”, two very disparate concepts that are routinely conflated everywhere). They might not even be that strongly correlated to each other.
I note this with especial amusement given that this is probably the only place where I would expect that distinction to be made by default.
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Doug, reply in moderation @ 8:53pm
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Jabberwocky –
“Just because your gay doesn’t mean you have to act like a homo. If you intend to hang out around here, I’d toughen up real quick.”
Trust me my skin is thick as my dick. Besides, I’m not the sashay away type of gay. Based on who I slept with I’d say I’m about 20% hetero… the problem is every time I fuck a bitch it’s more like a hatefuck. What can I say? That’s what happens when you are raised by a psychotic bitch.
Puma –
“We are going to need the combined strengths of ALL MEN in the coming legislative battles and the dark days ahead.”
Isn’t it funny how the lesbians are dragging the whole gay community into a shitstorm with the gay marriage bullshit? I never met an actual gay man who wants to get married.
[editor: i’ve heard that gay men and lesbians famously don’t get along. any truth to that? as a speculative matter, i can see why. sexual proclivities aside, there’s probably more psychological distance between a dyke and a gay than there is between a straight man and a gay.]
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I first went with #1, but I have to reconsider and go with #3. I’ve known quite a few people who were in ‘open’ relationships. Not to the point of a girlfriend sleeping around, but even this, at the end of the day, the guy is getting pussy, and he’s not threatened by the girl’s infidelity and disrespect. Life’s an orgy, I guess.
The sign wearer, if he is willing to emasculate and humiliate himself in public like that, imagine what he’s like in private
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I voted for #1, because he willfully submitted this information as if he is proud. As long as #2 is sure his daughter is his, it behooves him to keep his vile wife around so that his daughter doesn’t end up knocked up at the age of 15. We don’t know enough about #3 to call him a true beta.
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the third photo is a prank the young man pulled on the NYtimes.
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@Xsplat: “Selling your virginity to your betrothed is just whoredome.” You said that to see if we were paying attention, right?
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Roissy –
Yah I’d say that’s pretty much the case, in fact I’d say they are pretty much polar opposites. Gay men peacock constantly, take care of their bodies, and are generally pretty cultured. Lesbians are usually fat stumpy and resentful and wear clothes from the JC Penny bargain bin. Of course there are the awesome lesbos that can change the oil on your car and don’t have a problem with men whatsoever, but you probably won’t find many of these types in DC.
Outside of college campuses you don’t really see gay guys and lesbians socializing. I don’t know any myself. I don’t know what they do, I don’t know where they hang out, and I don’t give a fuck about them.
As an aside – I’ve noticed just browsing some of this stuff recently a lot of the pick up tips could have come from a gay dude … . not sayin yer gay of course.
[editor: game knows no orientation boundaries. the principles are universal.]
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The wife in option B ended up having to further clarify the issue for her (ex)husband and father of her child – evidently she thought that leaving with no forwarding address or bothering to mention that she was going would be sufficient notice that she was ending the marriage.
Beta option A might just have buyer’s remorse for suggesting an open relationship but can’t come forth and say so after it only worked out for the gf. Who knows. They’re both retarded if they did make such an agreement anyway.
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No.
It’s a straightforward sex for security scam.
A woman who loves for the sake of it is more valuable than a sex for security con artist.
Listen up – if you don’t activate the inner whore and the inner slut of your woman, she’s using you for either sex or for security.
If you activate both, you can call that love.
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Epoxytocin,
Thanks for catching that silly slip — that’s what happens when you rewrite a post and don’t double-check before submitting.
xsplat,
No, you didn’t read carefully. I said virginity is USUALLY sufficient for a woman to BE ABLE TO form a strong pair bond. Not that the bond would form in any virgin’s first relationship even if it was otherwise unsatisfactory, and not that it was true for all virgins.
This is logic. MOST women start out with the capacity to form a deep pair bond. The virgins are the ones who will have had the least opportunity to have this capacity degraded by heartbreaks and bad relationships. Therefore a virgin is still likely to have this capacity, but you still have to be a good enough man to waken it.
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chic noirbuttox,
Wait for it – I need to fart…….
(pause)
Aaaaaahhhhhhhhhh!!!
OK, you know what to do. Now quit talksin’ and start detoxin’….
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incredible. nothing to do with this post but…
roissy,
i just watched Willie Wonka and realized how much Gene Wilder (or the movie in general… doesn’t matter) has been an influence on you. after watching it again after several years i realize how much of an alpha wonka is in the movie.
is Willie Wonka a goldmine for alpha behavior? absolutely and then some.
PS for those who don’t know, Wilder is one of the greatest, and least recognized, actors of all time
[editor: damn straight. maybe i’ll do a great scenes of alpha post about willie.]
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in an advanced developed nation teen marriage is probably not a good idea, but is it any worse an idea than 40 year old women sauntering down the aisle for their first marriages?
Hey, no disagreement here. Most women are ready for marriage by their early 20s and most men by their mid to late 20s.
I don’t think there are very many chaste girls who have an exceptionally low libido
True, most chaste girls do like sex. But there are enough sex phobic or very low libido girls in more conservative circles that you do have to keep an eye out for them.
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I also note that you and I are basically the only ones here who bother to differentiate between “number of previous relationships / broken hearts” and “number of previous lovers / cock carousel”, two very disparate concepts that are routinely conflated everywhere)
Women have a tendency to bond with the men they are sleeping with, even if they go into it thinking it is just going to be casual, so the difference between the two isn’t as large as you make out.
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Gene Wilder is one of the greatest, and least recognized, actors of all time
Agreed. That movie sub-story with Wilder & Daisy the Sheep = so funny and yet a metaphor for so many doomed relationships.
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game knows no orientation boundaries. the principles are universal.
Have to disagree on this one. Gay men care mostly about looks, so a gay man isn’t going to need much game to get another gay man. He’d be better off hitting the gym.
On the other hand, I would imagine that game could be very useful for lesbians, both those who want to seduce other lesbians and those who want to go after hetero hotties.
[editor: ok, yeah, i was being flip. gay men are basically straight men who don’t have to deal with female gatekeeping of sex. i’d imagine because of the focus on looks and youth that older gay men are prone to depression.]
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The movie was of course Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Sex but Were Afraid to Ask. The Daisy sub-story was the first, and the best, in the movie.
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Of course I meant to say:if you don’t activate the inner whore and the inner faithful wife of your woman, she’s using you for either sex or for security.
If you activate both, you can call that love.
Some guys here think marriage is a concept that is workable. That a virgin wife can be faithfully owned. You guys are way to focused on being the beta provider, thinking that in this day and age this is a secure role.
Where you see that it is no longer a secure role, you blame social changes, and female behavior.
Why don’t you just grow up and realize that in order to keep a woman, it’s no longer sufficient just to rely on her matronly urges?
You have to dominate and fascinate her, and treat her like a little slutty bitch also.
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@Xsplat
Sidewinder seems to be the only voice here who notices that a woman not selling her pussy for either commitment or money is more virtuous than a woman who sticks to either bargain. A woman who loves for the sake of it, without slutting it up, and without an eye to extracting every last ounce of time and attention from her man, is more authentic than any marriage-whore.
Selling virginity to your betrothed is just whoredome.
You are assuming she refuses sex until marriage, essentially using it as a bargaining chip to trap you. But this doesn’t have to be the case. A woman who gives you her virginity (with the hope of marriage) before you are under obligation is taking a huge leap of faith while asking you to take one yourself. To quote the great Daffy Duck; “It’s a great trick, but you can only do it once”.
Likelyhood of being faithful. This concept is bandied around here as a proxy for “I don’t want to compete in the sexual marketplace, and I’m happy to de-emphasize sex altogether in order to accomplish this”.
You are misreading this as well. With marriage 2.0 managing risk is critical. Whenever you need to manage risk you are best served to take a layered approach. The greater the risk, the more facets your management approach is likely to involve. Assessing her likelihood of being faithful is only one aspect of managing risk. Solid LTR relationship game should also be an aspect, along with your chemistry and her willingness and ability to keep a commitment of this magnitude. Any one problem could be cause for veto.
If it was really about likelihood of cheating, then you virgin worshipers would be willing to focus on the divorce rates of the generation that both did marry as virgins and had access to birth control. Here’s a hint – it’s about the same as it is now.
Poor logic. Marriage 1.0 and 2.0 are different animals, and thus it is a dangerous comparison. It could well be that virgins are underrepresented as cheaters in both groups (past and present). So even if the overall divorce rates remained the same while virginity declined, this doesn’t mean virginity has no value. You have to look at the whole picture.
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@ xsplat
I think a lot of us here recognize that. That’s why there is a big difference between guys here and MRA types. Most of us (I think) recognize that game does not end upon marriage. DFH’s story illustrated that quite well.
@ xsplat
Right, but some of us would prefer to be the first to do this to her (or at least not be the 15th).
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Listen up – if you don’t activate the inner whore and the inner slut of your woman, she’s using you for either sex or for security.
If you activate both, you can call that love.
—
I think that this is pretty much right.
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@xsplat: You’re not thinking this through because you’re assuming every man is like you and does not want children (which apparently you don’t). Put yourself in the shoes of a man prior to paternity tests (e.g. a rural farmer who wanted to marry and father children). Prior to paternity tests, bridal virginity acted as a proxy test for marital fidelity. It was thought to signify that a woman had self control and might be trusted not to cuckold her husband and force him to raise children not his own. So in its beginnings it was not a scam foisted on men, but an expectation placed on women for the benefit of men who wanted to marry and father children of certain paternity. When viewed from the perspective of even a modern man who wants to father children of certain paternity, bridal virginity would still seem to be functional, don’t you think?
Note that virginity customs had the effect of putting the village on notice when a bride was found not to be a virgin – meaning the village elders and groom’s family members would be watching the non-virgin bride for any straying for the benefit of the groom.
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When I first saw #3 I thought court order. The Courts are pretty feminist and love humiliating men and shaming men.
Number #1 varies in his betaness. If he is plowing other girls while she is plowed by other guys then he is not so beta, but he still gets beta points for actually calling this chick is gf.
Number #2 is the usual worshipping pussy. However with the shaved head and little goatee it looks as if he was trying for alpha and just shot himself in the foot.
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BOTHM Candidate #2… he needs to turn in his Man card and put on a dress. What a f*ckin’ wuss.
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@Breeze
At the end of the day, it’s who gets pussy and who doesn’t. Court order or not, the guy with the sign isn’t getting any.
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#2 – because of the kid.
#1 is more brainwashed than #2 (encourages his own cuckoldry), but #2 is behaving completely inappropriately given that there’s a kid involved.
About gays: I think gay men have no use for lesbian women, who, by and large, can’t accomplish 20% of what gays can. Gay men are fitter than lesbians, dress better, achieve more, make more money, etc.
Lesbian women, on the other hand, despise men, because lesbians compete with men and lose time and time again.
Lesbians easily hate gay men because despite gay men being reviled as homosexuals (like lesbians), they achieve so much, making lesbians look like fat, unattractive, poor losers who can’t even cook and decorate well.
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I dunno. My principles forced me to stop reading at “all the heartbreaks and dangers of womanhood…”
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u u u + me me me = WW!!!
pupu
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Oh, sure, it’s easy to talk the talk. You think you can man up and compete against the real world alphas just from reading a few Dave from Hawaii stories?
Look, any man who has as his paradigm his wife being a virgin is coming at the modern age from the past. He is not a renaiscance man. He is not competing in the real world. He is fascinated with nostalgia. He does not understand female nature.
Yes, of course, you want to maximize your chance for success with a woman. But how is a man maximizing his success with women if he only wants to have sex for procreative purposes with virgins or near virgins? Or if he will only pump and dump sluts? If you’ve got this madonna whore mentality fixed in your brain, you have no fucking chance to make your wife feel like a real woman.
You won’t have the mindset for it. You won’t have the experience. You won’t have the confidence. You won’t have the skill.
Being able to manhandle your woman isn’t some skill you learn with your wife. You get it in the real world, competing sexually, with women you love, who are in the game.
You don’t learn it by cloistering a few little girls and keeping them chaste.
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Ok! Another poem for you! It’s waaaayyy better than yours!
Ahem…
under moon and stars me me me did wonder
when will roissy in dc’s heart she plunder?
his lips kissed from afar
even though the thought made her feel scuurrrred 😛
was like lightning without any thunder
I’m a poet and I don’t even know it! Woot! Woot! 😀
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Not a beta male, but I thought you’d appreciate the comeuppance against this ho bag who’s suing her phone company for “exposing” her affair.
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/100517/national/rogers_affair_suit
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@When I first saw #3 I thought court order. The Courts are pretty feminist and love humiliating men and shaming men.
Sick of the System? Ignore women, Ignore the economy, Ignore the government. Watch it all collapse.
The Three Strikes cut the 3 major arteries: sex, money, and power. The System bleeds out and dies.
Women implode. The economy implodes. Finally, the Orwellian govt implodes.
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And to the guys who emphasize bonding – you really, really don’t get it.
Virgins are not unspoiled little love machines, who if you can only keep pure will remain glued to you forever.
My mother married a virgin, as did most of her friends. She, and all of her friends are divorced now.
Bonding is the LEAST of your worries.
If bonding is your biggest worry, your biggest worry is not bonding.
If you can’t keep a slut, you can’t keep a virgin.
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I bet anything, that #3 was forced on the guy by a man hating judge somewhere. Its happened several times. Look at the guys face. Hes got tight lips that are pulled back. His Eye brows are either neutral or slightly down (looks down to me). Hes pissed. Hes not sad or upset. Hes angry that hes there.
As such, I absolve him of his crime against his manhood, cause the alternative might well be getting anally raped in prison.
#1 Eh… There is a SLIGHT… chance this guy is in an open relationship and tapping girls on the side as well. The way he writes it pretty super wimpy though.
#2 there is ZERO excuse. Beta winner hands down. Dont you have any pride???
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“xsplat
And to the guys who emphasize bonding – you really, really don’t get it.
Virgins are not unspoiled little love machines, who if you can only keep pure will remain glued to you forever.
My mother married a virgin, as did most of her friends. She, and all of her friends are divorced now.
Bonding is the LEAST of your worries.
If bonding is your biggest worry, your biggest worry is not bonding.
If you can’t keep a slut, you can’t keep a virgin.”
xsplat is fucktard of teh month!!!
you must have a smelly smelly vagina oozing goo.
lzozlzlzlzlzzl !!
sluts have no character
virgins often do
you’re a lutty smelly cunty slut!!
and fucktard of teh month!! lzozlzl
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Thursday:
I believe this number. Virgins aren’t a majority of single women these days, but there are far more than zero of them. The men who comment regularly on this blog seem to pay attention to only two types of women: women who are fat, and women who are lookers. In the middle, however, lie a lot of women who are more or less invisible to men. These women are neither ugly nor stunning and tend to be shy around men and lack the confidence to draw attention to themselves by going high-maintenance with their looks. It’s really easy for a woman like this to go a year or more without ever being asked on a date.
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xsplat,
You’ve got to stop overreacting to what people say.
We are not saying that only virgins make good wives, just that it can be a plus factor.
And we are not saying that bonding is enough all by itself, just that if a woman’s capacity to bond is degraded that is a red flag.
The Madonna-whore complex is fine as long as you are making the same woman play both roles. We’re not talking about going after virgins because they’re less sexual, not at all.
The big phenomenon that you are obtusely refusing to acknowledge is that, at least in the USA, there are a lot of women whose LTR value has been seriously diminished because of their relationship history. You may be lucky enough to be pulling from a fresher pool, but men who intend to stay in America and want a LTR are rational to regard less experience with other men as a plus factor. Not a categorical pass-fail test, but definitely a factor.
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Polymath, I’m not over-reacting, nor being obtuse. I’m playing off of some things the false JB in another thread said.
And you underestimate the value of my message. I’ve never denied that women can diminish their ability to form lasting relationships. My message this time, regarding this issue, is one I think a lot of men would do well to consider.
If these girls are going for the Alphas, how, exactly, do you become that Alpha?
It isn’t by reading some Dave from Hawaii stories.
It’s by being engaged in serious relationships with girls who are competing for sex with you and with the other alphas.
You learn to play tennis by playing tennis with people who play tennis.
Nowadays, to keep a woman, you can’t just pick up a games manual, and play from the book. You’ve got to learn by doing.
And not just with pump and dumps.
This is not over reacting – if you can’t keep a slut, in this modern day and age that we live in, and if you don’t own a time machine, you can’t a virgin either.
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“game knows no orientation boundaries. the principles are universal.”
True that. I am a firm believer that you should learn how to “game” men and women, even if your orientation is just towards women. This stuff is probably repeated throughout this blog, but here is what I’ve learned from clawing my way through this world:
1. Good wardrobe. I pay $280 a month in rent, but never skimp on the digs. Women can spot quality from a mile a way. Wearing nice clothes made of fine fabrics that fit your body and personality indicate high status, and that you are a sensual person. Doesn’t mean you have to dress like a fag . . . but if you GQ it up, the ladies will notice. Even if you are a T-shirt and jeans kinda guy, wear a Polo T and a nice pair of Levis with some crisp white Nikes. A pair of nice sunglasses or an expensive watch are the only accessories a straight guy needs. If you can pull it off, a gold chain around the wrist or neck can work. No dorky cellphone holsters! Those are like fanny packs. And when you are done fucking, put on a pair of teenage mutant ninja turtle pajama pants. She will think it’s cute and boyish and unexpected.
2. I don’t have the build to be a big muscle dude, but I think that’s unattractive anyway. ‘Roidsey looking guys are gross, and they usually have some insecurities and not a whole lot goin on upstairs. A lean and toned physique can be obtained by almost any man with a good workout routine and a stringent diet. No fast food or junk food. You will have better posture – especially if you emphasize squats, deadlifts, bench press, and core training. Clothes will look better on you, your V-shape will be emphasized, and you will have more confidence.
3. Swagger, nonchalance – walk slowly with your back straight, shoulders back. When you engage people, smile and look them directly in the eye for as long as needed to establish dominance. Then look through them as if they don’t matter. Don’t be afraid to get in people’s personal space in a non-creepy way. It is important to game other men, especially in social settings. At a house party, you can establish dominance in the room pretty by gaming other men. Touching other men is something that alphas are comfortable with – not in a gay way – but things like arm around a shoulder briefly can show that you are dominant over another man in the room. If someone is telling you a boring story, it’s OK to stifle a yawn and look away.
4. Aggressive wit delivered in a nonchalant, deadpan is one of the best ways to seduce a female or male. Roissy’s all about it and it works.
“editor: ok, yeah, i was being flip. gay men are basically straight men who don’t have to deal with female gatekeeping of sex. i’d imagine because of the focus on looks and youth that older gay men are prone to depression.”
sigh… so true. I plan on keeping my premium for as long as possible, even if it means growth hormone injections. When that stops working, I’ll probably fade away in a haze of booze and painkillers.
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Guys want to be treated like the Alpha male in their relationships, but only are trained in how to come at LTRs as the beta provider.
If you really want to be able to come at your LTR also with the skill of an Alpha, that can’t be faked. You have to rack up the numbers, get a lot of girls to fall in love with you, get your heart broken a lot, learn female nature. Learn by doing. There is no substitute.
If you want to be the Alpha, there is no diploma, and no award that will get you that reward.
If you can’t love a slut, you can’t be an Alpha. Cause the Alpha’s are out there lovin all the girls up, no matter how pure and virginal and married you think they are.
I know I sound like I’m screaming, but this does seem to be a hard point to get through a lot of guys heads – they have this mindset that a girl can be good.
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I had to with #1. 🙂
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I’m going to do my best to get this point across. Please don’t come at me repeating that guys looking for LTRs will up their chance of success if the girl is better able to bond. I’ve never contested that, and that’s not what I’m talking about right now.
The whole idea of bonding for life with a woman is a mindset. It seems like a good mindset. But if you have this mindset, you are setting yourself up for fail.
Bear with me.
Women, all women, even your Grandma, have a dual nature. They all, even virgins, want a provider, and they all get turned on by the bad boy.
If you are looking to be in a long term relationship with a woman, chances are you have internalized coming at relationships as a stable secure long term provider.
That is setting yourself up for fail.
If you come at relationships, first and foremost, is if this girl has the capacity to bond with me and remain bonded.
That is setting yourself up for fail.
What you want to do is see if you captivate her, how completely you captivate, how deeply you can get under her skin and into her world. You want to see how trustworthy she is. You want to see if you are up to the task, the challenge, of keeping her thrilled and secure.
The very instant your focus on security, you fail.
You may not notice it for five or ten years, but you already failed.
If the guy is looking to establish security through the woman not having had experience with other guys, he’s failed.
Want you want to be able to do, what you want to be able to be, is her first choice, out of all choices. If you don’t have that inside you, you have already failed. You need to genuinely earn your position. Not just steal it or demand it. You have to be able to look yourself in the mirror, and know for certain that you are the best she could ever get.
And from that point, not a point of weakness, not a point of insecurity, you can watch her and make your decisions about how much she can bond and how much she can trust you.
Otherwise, you are just being a beta security focusing provider.
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I guess I’m trying to say that if that’s what you want, you can’t get it.
Just wanting security will kill security.
You can’t be both the alpha and the provider if you want security.
You have to BE security. With or without her.
And as I keep trying to say, you can’t make a woman feel like a woman unless you can love that part of her which will always make you feel insecure. As soon as you have security, passion is dead.
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Stop dissing the lesbians with blanket unfounded stereotypes. Most of my lesbian friends are very good friends with my gay friends. I’m sorry a Lesbian butt-raped you, please get over it.
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“Jordan
Not a beta male, but I thought you’d appreciate the comeuppance against this ho bag who’s suing her phone company for “exposing” her affair.
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/100517/national/rogers_affair_suit”
Silly bitch is looking for someone else to blame. If she hadn’t cheated then none of this would have happened.
If I were the phone company I’d be seeking costs against her stupid ass and if I were the magistrate I’d award them for her wasting the Courts time.
Fuck I should have stayed in law, I could have made a million of dumb and frivolous law suits filed by spoiled bitches who want to blame someone else for their own idiocy.
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Aunt Haley
“It’s really easy for a woman like this to go a year or more without ever being asked on a date.”
She’s holding out for alpha cock as long as possible before reluctantly settling for a beta as instructed by her fiat overlords. A gentleman by a certain GBFM alias would back my statement.
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To support and encourage cuckoldry before it’s even happened…
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Sidewinder: “Anonymous,
There is nothing special about female virginity. And I don’t care that your pedestalization is wrapped up in some religious nonsense. That makes the basis for your misguided notions even less forgivable.
That being said, it is important that a woman is careful with her sexual conduct. And it appears that you have been. Whatever grief you are experiencing is self-inflicted. Just stop it. And don’t pass that guilt trip on to your children.
Unless you’re wanting your daughters to find some fringe fundamentalist husband someday, they need to live their lives in the present like you did and not in the regretting future that you currently exist in. The successful and responsible men I hang out with would view a virgin over the age of 21 as a big red flag. It signals religious wacko/headcase big time. I would probably still ask her out on a date, but she would have a lot of splainin’ to do for me to ask her out a second time.”
I’m a Gen-X man, and I disagree with Sidewinder.
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Well done for bring this back.
Please keep it going, its great entertainment.
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A Ramble in St. James’s Park
Much wine had passed, with grave discourse
Of who fucks who, and who does worse
(Such as you usually do hear
From those that diet at the Bear),
When I, who still take care to see 5
Drunkenness relieved by lechery,
Weent out into St. James’s Park
To cool my head and fire my heart.
But though St. James has th’ honor on ‘t,
‘Tis consecrate to prick and cunt. 10
There, by a most incestuous birth,
Strange woods spring from the teeming earth;
For they relate how heretofore,
When ancient Pict behan to whore,
Deluded of his assignation 15
(Jilting, it seems, was then in fashion),
Poor pensive lover, in this place
Would frig upon his mother’s face;
Whence rows of mandrakes tall did rise
Whose lewd tops fucked the very skies. 20
Each imitative branch does twine
In some loved fold of Aretine,
And nightly now beneath their shade
Are buggeries, rapes, and incests made.
Unto this all-sin-sheltering grove 25
Whores of the bulk and the alcove,
Great ladies, chambermaids, and drudges,
The ragpicker, and heiress trudges.
Carmen, divines, great lords, and tailors,
Prentices, poets, pimps, and jailers, 30
Footmen, fine fops do here arrive,
And here promiscuously they swive.
Along these hallowed walks it was
That I beheld Corinna pass.
Whoever had been by to see 35
The proud disdain she cast on me
Through charming eyes, he would have swore
She dropped from heaven that very hour,
Forsaking the divine abode
In scorn of some despairing god. 40
But mark what creatures women are:
How infinitely vile, when fair!
Three knights o’ the’ elbow and the slur
With wriggling tails made up to her.
The first was of your Whitehall baldes, 45
Near kin t’ th’ Mother of the Maids;
Graced by whose favor he was able
To bring a friend t’ th’ Waiters’ table,
Where he had heard Sir Edward Sutton
Say how the King loved Banstead mutton; 50
Since when he’d ne’er be brought to eat
By ‘s good will any other meat.
In this, as well as allthe rest,
He ventures to do like the best,
But wanting common sense, th’ ingredient 55
In choosing well not least expedient,
Converts abortive imitation
To universal affectation.
Thus he not only eats and talks
But feels and smells, sits down and walks, 60
Nay looks, and lives, and loves by rote,
In an old tawdry birthday coat.
The second was a Grays Inn wit,
A great inhabiter of the pit,
Where critic-like he sits and squints, 65
Steals pocket handkerchiefs, and hints
From ‘s neighbor, and the comedy,
To court, and pay, his landlady.
The third, a lady’s eldest son
Within few years of twenty-one 70
Who hopes from his propitious fate,
Against he comes to his estate,
By these two worthies to be made
A most accomplished tearing blade.
One, in a strain ‘twixt tune and nonsense, 75
Cries, “Madam, I have loved you long since.
Permit me your fair hand to kiss”;
When at her mouth her cunt cries, “Yes!”
In short, without much more ado,
Joyful and pleased, away she flew, 80
And with these three confounded asses
From park to hackney coach she passes.
So a proud bitch does lead about
Of humble curs the amorous rout,
Who most obsequiously do hunt 85
The savory scent of salt-swoln cunt.
Some power more patient now relate
The sense of this surprising fate.
Gods! that a thing admired by me
Should fall to so much infamy. 90
Had she picked out, to rub her arse on,
Some stiff-pricked clown or well-hung parson,
Each job of whose spermatic sluice
Had filled her cunt with wholesome juice,
I the proceeding should have praised 95
In hope sh’ had quenched a fire I raised.
Such natural freedoms are but just:
There’s something generous in mere lust.
But to turn a damned abandoned jade
When neither head nor tail persuade;100
To be a whore in understanding,
A passive pot for fools to spend in!
The devil played booty, sure, with thee
To bring a blot on infamy.
But why am I, of all mankind, 105
To so severe a fate designed?
Ungrateful! Why this treachery
To humble fond, believing me,
Who gave you privilege above
The nice allowances of love? 110
Did ever I refuse to bear
The meanest part your lust could spare?
When your lewd cunt came spewing home
Drenched with the seed of half the town,
My dram of sperm was supped up after 115
For the digestive surfeit water.
Full gorged at another time
With a vast meal of slime
Which your devouring cunt had drawn
From porters’ backs and footmen’s brawn, 120
I was content to serve you up
My ballock-full for your grace cup,
Nor ever thought it an abuse
While you had pleasure for excuse –
You tht could make my heart away 125
For noise and color, and betray
The secrets of my tender hours
To such knight-errant paramours,
When, leaning on your faithless breast,
Wrapped in security and rest, 130
Soft kindness all my powers did move,
And reason lay dissolved in love!
May stinking vapors choke your womb
Such as the men you dote upon
May your depraved appetite, 135
That could in whiffling fools delight,
Beget such frenzies in your mind
You may go mad for the north wind,
And fixing all your hopes upon’t
To have him bluster in your cunt, 140
Turn up your longing arse t’ th’ air
And perish in a wild despair!
But cowards shall forget to rant,
Schoolboys to frig, old whores to paint;
The Jesuits’ fraternity 145
Shall leave the use of buggery;
Crab-louse, inspired with grace divine,
From earthly cod to heaven shall climb;
Physicians shall believe in Jesus,
And disobedience cease to please us, 150
Ere I desist with all my power
To plague this woman and undo her.
But my revenge will best be timed
When she is married that is limed.
In that most lamentable state 155
I’ll make her feel my scorn and hate:
Pelt her with scandals, truth or lies,
And her poor cur with jealousied,
Till I have torn him from her breech,
While she whines like a dog-drawn bitch; 160
Loathed and despised, kicked out o’ th’ Town
Into some dirty hole alone,
To chew the cud of misery
And know she owes it all to me.
And may no woman better thrive
That dares prophane the cunt I swive! 165
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“That’s how it has always been. Well, for women with a sex and reproductive drive anyway.
Our drive may be lower, but that is a relative thing. We still do actually get horny, and definitely get lonely.
So when you take a woman off the market, an angel gets its wings so to speak.”
No thats not true. Before the age of contraceptives, abortion, social security and child support a woman could ONLY engage in sex safely once she was “off the market” so to speak. A lot of women seem to forget the connection between the sex act and reproduction. In reality a single woman would have been off of the market sexually while single, and only open to sex in marriage. For most of history a woman engaging in such pre-marital sex while she was single was considered a sinner of the highest order, a fallen woman, a danger to herself, her children, any man unfortunate enough to have dealings with her, and society as a whole. And yet you clueless apes hold this behaviour up as an example of a “healthy sex drive” in todays day and age, thats how twisted things have got. There are massive physical and psychological ramifications that accompany the sex act for women, just because we can delete the physical ones doesn’t mean a man has to put up with psychological ones. A woman with 10 previous sex partners is just as used up to me as a woman with 10 bastard children by those lovers. Everytime i see a slut i see at best a pregnant woman with 10 bastard kids with no daddies, and at worst a dead woman. Physically she’s still there, but psychologically shes long gone, unlovable, contemptable. I’d rather be alone than with a problem.
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Fixing Mr. MEGAN’s sign:
[IMG]http://i40.tinypic.com/1qizwn.jpg[/IMG]
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Anonymous, there are plenty of guys in the church who are “willing to wait.” If you’re religious, you had no excuse. Sidewinder, there is something special about female virginity. Anybody who’s done his fair share of deflowering knows that.
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Xsplat, you can mix and match stock game concepts all day and it won’t support your illogical, closeminded jihad for one true template of male heterosexual behavior.
What hilarity that you accuse others of ignorance of female nature. First, there will always be plenty of young female virgins, and the man who deflowers a virgin will always more easily secure her intense, undying love. Second, for many men, a wife who bears his children should be both Madonna and whore. If she exceeds the one cock rule, her ability to be the former is impaired. This will never change.
Who says maximizing your success with women is the overriding directive in life? Perhaps, for some, aesthetic considerations, such as living far from the grating jadedness of sluts, and avoiding the trauma of love found and lost, take precedence.
This choice has no impact on one’s ability to satisfy the women one does choose to bang. It does not involve rejecting any of game’s principles on female nature or managing relationships. Nor is it impossible to practice game daily without dragging one’s soul through the muck of a thousand shabby sexual encounters.
How ironic that you consider yourself the renaissance man. One need not forget Shakespeare to learn game.
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I have a 4th candidate to nominate:
Anyone observing social media recently (Facebook, Twitter, etc), will have noticed that a lot of older women are stupidly going along with a PR campaign by a scam-dating-site called CougarLife.com that says “Google Discriminates Against Cougars.”
Google has banned CougarLife from advertising with them as a G-rated service because CougarLife leads half the time to a splash page that asks visitors to go to Adult Friend Finder instead.
But foolish women bloggers are going along with the propaganda that “it isn’t fair that sugar daddy sites are allowed to advertise on Google. This is discrimination”.
In the comments section of these blogs you will see Beta males making one sentence comments like “I love Cougars. It seems Google really screwed up this time”. And that is the extent of their knowledge of the issue.
But these are not Beta of the Month material (they are typical American males unfortunately).
What qualifies to me as BOTM material would be commenter Mdr over at ComplaintsBoard.com:
http://www.complaintsboard.com/complaints/cougarlifecom-c316411.html
Mdr paid $40 to read messages supposedly from 8 “cougars” who “wrote” to him after he set up a profile. After the money changed hands, he never got another response. He didn’t know that the site’s “cougars” write to men even if they don’t upload a photo or details. It is a scam site after all. But here is what makes him BOTM material:
He says “I’m close to 40, in great shape, look good, so women between 35-45 are my age bracket im interested in..so thought I’d look there.”
WTF?
You *thought* you would look for women your age given that you were in great shape and looked good? So you paid $40 to meet someone your own age online in an obvious scam?
Now I can see someone losing $40 on a dating site that scams men into thinking a young hottie just messaged him, but the kind of American beta who would fall for that scam by having fake cougars over 40 write is really troubling to me. It is part of the “lower your expectations” mentality that older US feminists want to impose on US men.
—————————
Meanwhile, kudos to @Roissy for restarting his Twitter account. Some advice however:
1) Lead into each of your posts with most of your tweets. Delete the latest one about “holding the shits in” but the breaking news about the spider biting the guys dick was an excellent tweet. So was the pheromone tweet linking to an article. But you should at least have one tweet leading into each of your posts as a link.
2) Follow 2000 people immediately so 1500 will follow back and you get an audience. Don’t worry about reading the people you follow. That is not the purpose of following. The purpose of following is to get them to follow you back. In the end, everyone will read 1% of what others write anyway. But that means that everyone who follows you will read at least one out of every 100 tweets you write (not bad). You will read one in a 100 tweets of the thousands of people you follow, which could give you great material for posts.
3) You can specifically look at some Twitterers for material (eg @MensNews or @MensRightsBlogs or @MensNewsDaily or @VeteransAbroad).
Find popular PUA and Men’s Rights Tweeters from which to follow several hundred of their followers each to form your audience (do a search for feminists or feminism and look who makes the most dry commentary). Go heavy for libertarians. Keep the tweets themselves from using curse words.
4) Others will Retweet the links to your posts and you will get a wider audience than you have now on the blog.
You will be a heavily followed Tweeter in no time even if you just do the above and lead each post by a tweet.
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JB, are you the original JB, or the dweeb JB?
Or did you not notice that there is another poster on this forum called JB? Not cool to steal a guys handle.
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Xsplat,
From what I have read, you are the master of LTR game. I say that without any sense of irony, etc. You strike me as the real deal. So I’m very interested in your thoughts, because I know from previous threads there is always at least a gem of wisdom there. Your point on not coming from a position of fear strikes me as being that gem.
With that said, I also think you are approaching this much as a 37th degree kung fu master would approach personal security by tisk tisking those who would stoop to use a firearm. Your solution is that every beta guy who wants to marry should just learn your kung fu. But you are in what, the 90th, 95th, 99th percentile of LTR game guys? We can absolutely learn from guys like you, and we can certainly get better, but as you suggest with your Dave from Hawaii quip we will never approach your ability.
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[editor: ok, yeah, i was being flip. gay men are basically straight men who don’t have to deal with female gatekeeping of sex. i’d imagine because of the focus on looks and youth that older gay men are prone to depression.]
Meh, a lot of gay men are basically girls, so there is much truth in your flipness. That’s why some of them sashay around and gesticulate as if trying to get dry.
Where it gets interesting is that game can often overcome obstacles of looks & youth just as in the straight world. I have learned much about the power of unrepentant masculinity here at the Chateau.
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Fucking savage!!
Beta Of The Month returns!!!!
Big hi from Dublin, Ireland to all you roissy fans over the Atlantic.
I’m gay as well but I’d like to think of myself as a gay alpha. Herbs, betas, omegas – they’re always among us.
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Some interesting forum discussion on the scams that trap Beta males online, including Adult Friend Finder and Ashley Madison where men pay to read messages employees write:
http://www.datinghelp101.com/is-ashley-madison-agency-a-scam/
http://www.ashleymadisonsucks.com/
Once a male accepts the idea that women want to remain anonymous and write letters online, scammers have him right where they want him.
The anti-male culture makes it so these sites never get prosecuted.
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Everyone stop picking on Seth (and the rest of the home’s) … they wander onto this site by accident…
…like the time the freshman wandered into 20th century western european business ethics and had nooooo idea what was going on….
Feel free to read the blog but please keep your comments…we’re not mad that youre gay, we’re mad that youre proud of it.
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Realist, there was birth control before the pill. Even back when Ben Franklin was half joking about sex with older women, this was one of the implied advantages of shagging a woman with “experience”.
The withdrawal method is at least as old as Moses, as it was declared a grave sin in Jewish law (Onanism).
Aside of withdrawal, there was natural sponge or cloth soaked in lemon juice of a vinegar solution, and “parsley, sage, rosemary, and thyme” for the morning after.
With a combination of those and withdrawal, there was very very little chance of pregnancy, which is why there were still hookers back in the day. Not all of them were infertile women or had kids every year.
This knowledge was lost in some groups because of the Inquisition and witch hunts, but Muslims, who never had a problem with birth control, kept it alive and the information circulating through it all.
When you know what really went on, you understand that though most people did marry, some women didn’t. As pitied as a spinster may have been in the public sphere, privately, respectable single women did have discreet affairs.
My two oldest aunts and one great aunt were among them, and had no pregnancies. Granted, they were Black and Native American and therefore not the highest on the social ladder back then, but they were considered respectable church going women.
Thing is, they chose long term partners to whom they were exclusive. It resembled something like a “walking marriage” like some people have in Tibet, only my aunts and great aunts only had one partner each.
My grandfather’s main mistress was also an independent type of woman, and also considered respectable. She had a very long affair with my grandfather, but again, no pregnancies.
Feminists promoted the lie that a woman had no control over pregnancy. It’s an attempt to rewrite history, which was easy to do since much was indeed covered up back then. Under the media radar though, a lot went on.
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Thursday
I would guess that there’s a whole lot of female lying in that number.
The difference to many women (and many husbands) between only having had sex with their husband and having had it with a few others is large.
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no nicole there is a big difference between the withdrawal method and behaviour displayed today. Iv’e used this method myself and aside from it’s usefulness when going for the customary jizzbomb to the face it’s actually pretty poor quality sex, by definition not even actual sex. There is a line between using the withdrawl method a few times during an infertile phase of a woman’s cycle and using a pill and banging away 14 times a day with total abandon.
Also note that the withdrawal method and that herbal mixture you described(a form of medicine, which is a kind of technology) are still acts of trickery akin to modern birth control. They don’t register with my hindbrain. You could have saved yourself some time and actually just mentioned condoms, which is very similar in effect and known to exist in primitive forms even back in egyptian times, and which also is a form of CONTRACEPTION. Your point seems to be “they had forms of contraception back in the day too” which actually isn’t a point at all. It just means there were some sluts back then cheating biology too, wow women have always been sluts and men horndogs!! news to me….
You are reading too much reason into my words, this is a visceral reaction many males have that makes sluts unlovable and contemptable that is very hard to describe.
Like i said a woman with 10 sexual partners is used up, something has gone wrong somewhere. A woman shouldn’t be willing to be impregnated by that many people, if any, it should just be the best one. She is not a man, those men won’t all carry her children. Fair enough a woman should go for the best possible man she can get but when there is 10+ cocks involved her decision making proccess is clearly going wrong somewhere. Can she not tell who the best man is before all the cocks have been inside her and possibly impregnated her?? just seems like a defective woman to me, they are fucking around these days like they literally have lost the will to live and don’t value their wombs one iota. Well if thats the case i don’t value it one iota either. No marriage for you.
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#2 beta guy looks waaaaaay too much like some guys in my college. Stylish wannabe metal/college junkie guys who sag fatties because they are the only girls in the Informatics module that don’t have high egos for the male/female ratio.
I have seen the worst cases playing YU-GI-OH.
Myself? I like this look:
http://roissy.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/newfriends.jpg?w=449&h=308
And I am having a taste of the rural/no high egos/no make up girls of the Education module.
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And nicole whilst i do accept some validity to the withdrawal method there is still an element of responsibility there, it takes disipline, care and risk to implement that method. People had to deal with the consequences. Such responsibility is lacking in todays day and age, with 50,000,000+ abortions as evidence.
Cicero famously sentenced a woman to death for having an abortion. Thats what the great men of times past thought of that shit.
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about forgiving… what do you do if you are a cheat, read real red-blooded not beta man, yourself? I understand dumping for
* being plain f’n dumb (like case #2)
* growing tired of her pussy yourself
* her falling too hard for the other guy
But besides that, I can’t help but feel somewhat amoral to dump for what I do too. The whole men and women are different and women only cheat for love is IMO just another pretty lie. Life isn’t fair and all, actual breaking up is one thing and doesn’t need a reason or justification, but judging behaviour is different story. Sounds like for real there’s no point to judge?
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@Dalrock,
No doubt xsplat is very good with women and able to punch far above his weight, and he certainly provides plenty of useful advice in his posts. And he may be a master of LTR, but I wouldn’t compare him to guys who skillfully navigate marriages with children.
The reality is that a guy in an LTR who is not married (and no kids) has a huge advantage in terms of having a woman submit to him than a guy who is married with kids, *especially* a guy married with kids in a marriage 2.0 regime, where is wife not only is armed with the state’s power any time she wants it, but is also surrounded by a society that implicitly encourages her to use said weapon.
@xsplat,
I think polymath, Dalrock, Dave, GBFM, JB and I are all coming at this from a very different angle than you are. If I weren’t interested in children (and by extension, marriage), then sure, a woman’s sexual history would be of little concern to me. But because some of us are interested in children (and by extension, marriage, and live in a marriage 2.0 regime), we have to place ourselves in a position of structural vulnerability (no matter how good one’s game is, there is vulnerability when the state hands your wife a shotgun pointed directly at your balls). So it helps to stack the odds in your favor, and a preference for chaste girls is one way to do that.
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The other man in Beta #2.
Sheeeiittt, I guess somebody actually has walked into a barber shop with a picture of Anton Chigurh and said, “”Gimme one of those.”
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Chainring and Dalrock – you are both very kind. Chainring, when you remind me of the lack of leverage that’s entailed in marriage 2.0, I have to concede that every possible advantage is an important one.
Everyone who mentioned that I’m coming at this from the unique perspective of a guy not invested in having kids made a good point. My strategy is an inseparable part of … my strategy. Not marrying puts you in a position of power – a position I refuse to give up.
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@SGOTI
He actually went to the barber? Really?
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roissy, it actually blows my mind that you could think it’s 50%, rural commmunities or not. even 25% is a massive leap of faith.
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“PS for those who don’t know, Wilder is one of the greatest, and least recognized, actors of all time
[editor: damn straight. maybe i’ll do a great scenes of alpha post about willie.]”
I’ve broken my bird!
@Dave
“Note that virginity customs had the effect of putting the village on notice when a bride was found not to be a virgin – meaning the village elders and groom’s family members would be watching the non-virgin bride for any straying for the benefit of the groom.”
More like watching for opportunities to fuck that little slut.
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Xsplat: I predate the commenter now going by “Original JB,” whom you mistook for me. Twit.
Anyone looking to Xsplat for wisdom would better read Daniel Rose’s Sex Revolution (renamed Sex God Method, I believe). Combined with Roissy, it is a briefer, more cogent and complete theory of relationship game.
The only valuable thing on Xsplat’s meandering blog, as I recall, was his analysis of East and Southeast Asian “face.”
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@Chainring
there is vulnerability when the state hands your wife a shotgun pointed directly at your balls
Too funny, and too true!
Taking the metaphor a little further, one thing your wife should know is that she can’t pull the trigger without hitting your kids as well. This probably sounds obvious, but I think the majority of married men basically hand their wives a moral pass when it comes to divorce. Marriage was the most solemn agreement she entered into in her entire life. So much so that she wanted her parents and everyone she knew to witness it, and at a church to be sure that God took note.
No matter how hard the state tries to make it otherwise, there will always be blowback to herself. Assuming she was a virgin when you met her, she should understand that if she pulls the trigger she won’t be in the same position to find another sucker, er husband. Not too long ago, women who divorced could fairly easily remarry. I don’t have any hard data, but looking at acquaintances, colleagues, and neighbors this seems to no longer be the case. No one is rushing to marry a divorcée, and few seem interested in even LTRs with them. While there is financial incentive to women for divorce, the reality is there is only so much to divide up. Even if they get more than half, when all is said and done they probably will be worse off, especially in retirement. Becoming a born again spinster isn’t nearly as romantic as they make it appear in Sex and the City and those Lifetime movies…
So those wives tempted to pull the trigger just to see what happens should take note. One day their kids will remember that mommy got bored and decided to take their dad away from them. And being a cougar with a half life of 5-10 years isn’t so glamorous after all when they find out they are the warpig. The state can help you take his kids and money away, but it can’t give you back the status you lost as a respected wife and mother. No matter what your girlfriends want you to believe. Keep in mind, these are the same girlfriends who conned you into that awful boy haircut, after all…
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This is BOTM #2’s LinkedIn profile:
http://www.linkedin.com/in/davidtehan
Not as much a redneck as his earlier photo shows. He is a young kid working a bank-security job during the day and studying part-time to get a Bachelors degree in Computer Science.
He looks like a nice upstanding young man in the LinkedIn profile photo. Full of life … probably the photo was taken before he married & conceived with the whore-wife.
He could have been one of us… Jesus!
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Ronin:
It’s really hard for a woman to do this if she isn’t being asked out at all.
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Here’s what’s wrong with realist, polymath, Dalrock, Dave, GBFM, and JB’s position on female virginity: it does not lead to more structural stability. Virgins who marry are the MOST LIKELY POPULATION to divorce in our current modern society. Some may argue that it is more a function of age than virginity, but they aren’t unrelated. This argument that there exists some chemical bonding when you are the first man to penetrate a woman is really missing the forest for the trees. I’m sure girls always have a special place in their heart for the infatuation connected to their first sexual partner, but it is precisely because it is immature infatuation that it often leads to divorce.
I understand that in the idealized world that these posters wished we lived in (pre-Vatican II), virginity would be an accurate indicator of self-restraint and we’d all be prince charming sweeping the beautiful snow white off her feet and enjoying her pristine virgin vagina, but you guys need to get your heads in the world that you live in. Your pedestalization of this idealized virgin girl that you will make your idealized wife is exactly the kind of beta thinking that this site attempts to correct. For JB it sounds like more of some sick kind of molestation fetish.
Let me be clear with where I agree: I agree that it is better if the girl has less past partners and a relatively low number. I agree that it is more important for a woman to be more careful with her sexual activity than a man.
But if you are truly looking for a compatible mate for a LTR or marriage, you do not want a virgin, unless you are also a virgin or a near virgin for religious/moral reasons. You want a woman who knows who she is, and in our time and culture, an attractive woman who lives life honestly and invests herself in her relationships as her life unwinds, is not going to be a virgin when she is ready to marry. And the research shows that these women, not virgins, are the ones most likely to remain married.
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#3 doesn’t seem quite genuine, might be a court order as someone said, but it’s difficult to choose between #1 and #2.
#1 could be a sneaky omega play by “uncle” to soar beyond his station and occasionally do the young hottie. But, you know, it still doesn’t convince. Sorry, still omega. Even if Mr Omega signs the paternity papers and bangs out a kid or two of his own.
No, I think #2 takes the title, because there is still some hope: he will take one long look at his replacement, the pudgy bad boy, and say to himself with mounting horror, “My God, I am Beta of the Month.”
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What red-blooded man’s heart doesn’t fill with joy at the thought of taking a sweet, blushing virgin to bed and gently but firmly and thoroughly teaching her the amatory arts? Possibly over a long time indeed.
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@ Glengarry,
I get the kinky factor, but the conversation was about whether a girl’s virginity would be a plus factor or negative for a LTR or marriage prospect. And the most recent studies on divorce trends show that education, age, experience are positively correlated with marital stability. The liberal northeast has the lowest divorce rates, the religiously conservative south the highest. I realize it isn’t that simple and class is a very strong intervening variable, but class is also related to age, education level and experience in marital statistics.
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“Lowest divorce rates”
Yeah, also way, way lower marriage rates anyways. Tell the whole story.
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Gx1080,
I did not know this, but I think it only supports the argument. The older, more educated, and experienced married people are more successful in selecting mates for marriage. Surely you’re not arguing that its better to marry young and divorce than to wait and marry for life, are you?
Low marriage rates would have no effect on the divorce rates, since the statistics of divorce rates can only be taken from people who got married. So whether its the hyper-marrying south or the rarely-marrying northeast, the divorce rates are taken from the population of those who get married.
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@sidewinder: Its more complicated than you make out. Under the “shaming non-virgins at marriage” milieu (the dark ages) women were legal minors. In addition, divorce was not permitted. Women had much to lose if turned out as a result of infidelity. So to avoid all these negative outcomes when a wife introduces an effective bastard into a family, society instituted a number of taboos to discourage female philandering. Everyone benefited from this when observed. The husband because he did not have a continual demoralizing reminder of his wife’s infidelity. (Note the dichotomy between a husband’s philandering and a wife’s philandering when offspring are involved – the husband would set up a separate household for a mistress whereas a wife wants to introduce the offspring into her family as if nothing has happened and hopes the husband doesn’t catch on – the cheated-on wife simply does not face the same demoralizing reminder on a daily basis that a knowing cheated-on husband does). The wife benefits because she does not have to suffer through a marriage marred by recrimination and accusation. The children benefit because mommy and daddy have not given each other a reason to hate one another so that the children can believe that mommy and daddy love each other. (This is important to children). Hence, society instituted a number of taboos that made it easier for women to do what was expected of them.
Contrast our present time. Lawyers have removed societal structures fostering stable families solely for their own self-interest. Anyone who believes that it was done for the interest of women is a fool.
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Dave,
I don’t necessarily disagree with your social analysis from the middle ages. I think everyone would agree that our standard of living is light years ahead now, based largely on reasoned-analysis trumping traditionalist notions.
I also don’t disagree that there is a historical and even anthropological/biological basis for men prefering virgins, although I think the biological preference is for youthful healthiness more than virginity.
But the conversation is about marital stability today, and choosing a girl for marriage. In todays culture, as whacked as it may be, a virgin over 22 is likely either part of a religious subculture, or a socially-inept headcase. It is not a good quality if you are an established man seeking a girl for a LTR or marriage. Not in todays society. I don’t disagree that in other cultures or prior times, it may have been a socially-beneficial preference. Just not today.
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Personally, in terms of marriage material a young woman in her 20s who is a virgin would be a plus. A woman in her very late 20s or over 30 still a virgin would be a red flag, because it’s likely she has a social or perhaps mental problem of some sort, or she has let the virginity become a sacred cow defining her life. It’d be impossible to live up to whatever fantasies she has about it.
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Sidewinder, we agree on that though I’d give her more of an age leeway than you do. I’d be impressed with a girl who made it through college without slutting it up, though it’d be odd if she went for many years as a virgin after that as she matured emotionally and got better at knowing about and picking men.
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@Sidewinder
Your pedestalization of this idealized virgin girl that you will make your idealized wife is exactly the kind of beta thinking that this site attempts to correct.
Now you are just making shit up.
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@Sidewinder: Are you assuming the collective misery sum (husband, wife, children) in comparison to the middle ages is up, down or stable? Even if stable or down, which sex is bearing more of the misery sum now? If an additive component of the misery sum has been redistributed in a one-sided manner to one of the sexes, is this equitable? Just asking.
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@Nicole
This is debatable. I’ve heard of the medieval supposedly magical properties of these and other herbs (of the plant, not beta, variety), but what is your source other than feminist blogs for this mixture being an abortifacient? Methinks this be more of a New Age / Internet myth than actual folk medicine, milady.
This is a nearly universal belief among African Americans that their families are descended at least in some part from Native American ancestry. In fact very few are. See Harvard professor Henry Louis Gates, Jr.’s documentary “African American Lives 2” that was on PBS for more on this topic.
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Snidewhiner:
“It is the over-educated and elite northeast that has the lowest divorce rate. (Mass, NH, Conn) They get married at a later age, making it more likely that both husband and wife have had previous relationships.
What relationships were found most likely to divorce? Those with brides or grooms under 20 (virgin age) from working class backgrounds, predominantly in the religiously conservative south. ”
This is the evidence you cite for your grand anti-virginity jihad? It is to laugh.
1. DO THE ALLUDED STUDIES EVEN MEASURE VIRGINITY, OR ARE YOU JUST ASSUMING IT BASED ON “VIRGIN AGE”???
Here’s what a real argument would look like: you provide statistical evidence that young Southern working class woman-non-virgin-couples are more likely to stay married than young Southern working class woman-virgin-couples. Then at least we have a starting point for discussion, not that this would impugn a PUA’s preference for virgin love.
You don’t even mention middle aged double-doctorate Northeastern couples who tie the knot after years of cohabitation because IT’S NOT RELEVANT TO THE ARGUMENT. If either of those people are still virgins by middle age something has gone seriously awry, and nobody in Game cares about post-wall splat mating dynamics anyway.
Why don’t you do us all a favor and save the time further deconstructing your argument by just giving us the sources you’re working off of. Then we can read for ourselves how pitifully you’ve misinterpreted reality to fit your little cause.
I truly cannot fathom how someone can be intelligent enough to see familial stability is desirable, yet stupid enough to propose pre-marital sex as a solution. And then cite STATISTICS to back that claim. Did you miss the megatrend while you were busy with your microscope?
But then I understand when I read your next argument. Wanting a virgin = pedestalization of the virgin. That is no more true than saying that dating a woman who has had many partners makes one a cuckold. Because wanting your woman to have a certain property, does not equal blindly admiring your woman. Idiot.
Yes, I am a sick molester, a filthy perv inspired by Shakespeare’s Romeo and Juliet to deflower a virgin and make her a life mate as love’s ultimate culmination. I prefer permanent romantic relationships. The preference is hardwired into my brain by a stress-free childhood in a happy, stable, loving home. I don’t dig the love on a two year lease plan. Why don’t you narrow-minded man sluts grow up and embrace human diversity. Nobody calls you a molester when you molest 50x more girls than I would ever want to. Game does not mean checking your soul at the door, just your illusions.
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Realist, you’re preaching to the choir. I also steer clear of people with a history of inability to bond.
Granted, this makes me vulnerable to other problems, such as the too much of a good boy situation that I encountered here in Israel. Still, it’s better to hear, “I thought we had something special,” than, “It was nothing special. What are you crying about?”
I understand Xsplat’s position too. If I was a guy, I’d probably operate somewhat like him. I understand though, that what he does and succeeds at isn’t what most guys could do and succeed at.
He can pick the angel out of a room full of hoes. Most guys would just see a room full of hoes, or pick the wrong one. So most guys who are looking for a lifetime mate have a higher chance with a woman who is either a virgin, or has a known history of deep bonding.
It’s kind of a dice roll no matter what you do, but unless a guy is incredibly exceptional, he should probably not bank on exceptions.
About birth control and abortion, yes women were put to death for having or performing abortions. They were also killed for being known to use other birth control methods. However, men were killed for this too. If a man was caught giving information on anything that could have been labelled witchcraft, he could be just as hanged, burned, or drowned.
This is why the knowledge was mostly lost except among prostitutes. Some people were in the know though. They just kept quiet about it unless discussing it with trusted people.
In the Americas, there was a problem suppressing this information because Native Americans often had methods of birth control that they used when they could do so under the radar.
Tinderbox, it’s not just about the what, but the how. You can’t just take one dose of parsley and it’s taken care of. One has to basically live by a regime that prevents conception or implantation. In addition to this, barrier methods, withdrawal, and non intercourse activities are added options.
My aunts and great aunt managed it even though our women in our family are usually very fertile.
On the Native American thing, my great grandmother was Catawba. It’s the reason my grandmother’s first unofficial husband’s family wouldn’t let them marry. They felt that she was a savage, and that a Black family that wanted to “improve”, shouldn’t marry into savages.
I think the women were just jealous of her hair and boobs.
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One thought on statistics about divorce rates. I’ve never seen a single study which took into account all of the main variables. If someone has a good link I’d love to see it. We know that race is a big factor, as well as IQ. But usually most studies only pick up proxies for these two factors at best. The Northeast will be more white than the south, and also tend to have a higher IQ. We know that each of these groups (white, high IQ) have lower divorce rates. You will see similar effects when comparing religions. Lutherans (as a group) have significantly higher IQs and lower divorce rates than Baptists, for example.
With all of this said, it is true that evangelical Christians have really dropped the ball in the area of marriage/divorce. The vast majority simply don’t have a leg to stand on. My wife teaches in a private Christian school in an upscale/very conservative part of Dallas. This is classic bible belt country. I don’t have exact stats but probably close to 50% of her students come from divorced families. Hypergamy is also rampant there, with three of the girls going to the prom with the same guy. It is an open secret that some of the 7th and 8th grade girls (and guys) are having sex, and the school can’t bring itself to pass any judgment (except for on the guys). Conservative Christians are for the most part totally clueless about female nature and gutless about enforcing the morality they preach. Until/unless this changes, the church is beyond defense in this area.
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We were all BOTM candidates once, at least if the award were given out by age group and region.
I was just thinking last night about how my father, a beta with career authority, never taught me game and I should really resent him for that. I see the new comedy show “The Suite Life” where two 10 year old male actors are gaming adult women and I think “Damn, these young guys were taught game and now have a 20 year jump on their contemporaries and me when I was their age”.
Teach a male child game at least by age 12. If you fail to do this, and leave him to learn on his own at age 30, you are committing abuse (I know the sick American culture and justice system would tell you not to let your 15 year old son game an 18 year old woman but even the American TV sitcom “The Suite Life” contradicts this by showing 10 year old boys gaming adult women).
At least my father gave me tools that he never thought to put into the context of meeting and gaming women (that was probably a good thing for his marriage which is still going strong).
1) He gave me great genes: height, IQ, young looking face
2) He taught me how to have a dry sense of humor
3) He taught me historical facts that made me fascinating for older folks to have a conversation with and he tested this when he introduced me to 2 famous actors and 2 famous TV hosts several of whom had dinner with us (my dad wasn’t hurting for contacts, we just never used them to help get me get a girlfriend).
4) At a major East Coast Track and Field Championship in a large stadium, he pretended he was a coach and managed to get himself to the starting line to cheer me into a school-record-breaking performance. Although he was wrong for letting me do a beta sport like track (at the height of the sexual revolution no less), I will never forget both the confidence he displayed in me nor the wickedly brilliant lesson he taught me when he used subterfuge to get to where the action was (I later became a wedding crasher based on this event but it would take me awhile to learn to apply what he did to meeting women).
So, without any idea of game, I spent age 16 corresponding by paper letter with a daughter of a friend of the family (people did not use email until I was 35 and websites did not exist until that time either). I would blow it on the first actual date, which permanently turned me off to the idea of letter or email correspondence meaning anything.
What got me my first real gf at age 17 was the fact that I had quit Track and Field and worked on building my upper body. In the summer after high school, a 15 year old cheerleader’s brother tapped me on the shoulder and said “My sister likes you” and she turned beet red. I was at least smart enough to ask for her phone number which I instinctively knew was being offered to me on a silver platter and we had a real relationship thanx to my running on instinct.
In college I regressed and got in with the wrong crowd (Christians!) which badly hampered my development. Parents should consider it abuse to let any religious people near a teenage male because they teach the opposite of game. I am serious. This holds young men back.
It seemed it would be better if I hung around with Hell’s Angels, and it was because of this idea that my anti-religious Mom gave me bad game advice in that she pushed me into the idea of being in macho environments (all-male tough-guy dorm + US military service). These environments are not really all that great for getting yourself in front of women, nor do they confer much real-time status.
Tell your son to go for the coed dorms in college – Staying in an all-male “animal house” did not teach me game so much as taught me how a bunch of losers will go through college drinking and NOT getting laid. The men who were getting laid were in the coed dorm. I will teach my son the words Proximity, Proximity, Proximity. Similarly, going in the military kept me away from upper middle class women and/or conferred me no status with them for four long years. Major mistake despite the life-skills I learned, especially on how to be authoritarian and how to speak several languages.
Another huge thing to teach young men: Do not let any flirt from an attractive woman go unprocessed. Tell a young man not to “preserve in his mind” the fact that a woman flirted as a “confidence boost” with the idea that, if he tried to get a number, a possible rejection would destroy the confidence boost. This is sick reasoning that hampers many young men throughout their 20s.
Tell a young man that he will REGRET all the times an attractive woman flirted with him and he did NOTHING.
Tell your son that, if a woman flirts with him and he is attracted, he MUST follow things through or you will give him Hell for being a coward. There should be zero points for just getting flirted with…unless the woman is someone your son will see again and/or can track down and ask out.
In which case, he has to go get her or you, the parent, will call him a coward.
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@Anonymous:
Neither my wife nor I were virgins when we married. I was well past that point as a matter of fact. I wish we had both been virgins when we married. If you truly love someone, it becomes a normal sentiment. Those others seem to have somehow tainted your love for one another when you meet a truly special person. Gay men are generally hedonists and don’t really understand this notion in most cases. Being gay is to deliberately be the antithesis of such an idea; it is, in fact, a form of protest against the restraints of access women place on sex.
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“Dalrock
One thought on statistics about divorce rates. I’ve never seen a single study which took into account all of the main variables. If someone has a good link I’d love to see it. We know that race is a big factor, as well as IQ. But usually most studies only pick up proxies for these two factors at best. The Northeast will be more white than the south, and also tend to have a higher IQ. We know that each of these groups (white, high IQ) have lower divorce rates. You will see similar effects when comparing religions. Lutherans (as a group) have significantly higher IQs and lower divorce rates than Baptists, for example.”
Actually I believe that the Pew Research group recently published a report on social trends in marriage which looked at race and education level in particular, the title was: Women, Men and the New Economics of Marriage.
http://www.pewsocialtrends.org
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@Seth
T-man,
“The only brain damage I had was being castrated at a very young age by an unstable emotionally needy drug addicted mother. In other words, I learned my lesson early.
Now I don’t have to bother with females at all and I probably have a more satisfying, unconflicted sex life than most of the people who post here lzozlzozozlolzolzozlzolzozzz”
I’d agree with that. Being gay eliminates the mind games men have to jump through to get sex. Gay men seem to be concerned about sex first and foremost. I’m probably one of the few heterosexual men you will meet that gets as much sex as he wants from his marriage.
I’m intrigued by your confession regarding your mother however. I’m convinced that the majority of gay men have a dominating and corrosive psychotic female presence in their lives, usually a mother. A guy I used to be friends with in High School and still like, just haven’t seen him in years, turned out gay, and I always theorized it was due to his mother. She is a domineering and conniving woman who crushed his soul in many ways. I think this is a much bigger factor than a genetic explanation. I’d be interested in hearing your comments on this.
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There are a lot of factors that contribute to the low divorce in the Northeast. I think what you will need to look into is what is the rate of infidelity. I’ve known a lot of couples that are in loveless, sexless marriages and both partners have extramarital relationships. Infidelity seems failry common of the East Coast SWPL lifestyle.
This doesn’t speak very strongly of the lack of divorce among this class. Neither partner overly benefits either in status or economically from getting divorced, so they don’t. The super rich and the lower end of the ‘middle class’ bell curve respectively have so much that losing half in a divorce means nothing, or having nothing to lose so also don’t hesitate to get divorced.
On the subject of status; much of the East Coast SWPL culture is still effectively the 1950s in this regard. This class of people is decidedly liberal and ‘open minded’, but trust me a stink gets raised when those Koreans moved into the neighborhood. (Actually a personal anecdote there, from my decidely upper middle class, liberal Democrat SWPL branch of the family. God bless ‘diversity’, but man; seriously fuck them Koreans.)
Having a spouse is a part of that anachronistic status. As Nicole noted; shit rolls downhill. The American South is decidedly ‘downhill’ but so is Rochester, or South Boston. It’s only a matter of time before the New English Whitopia with its McMansions and ‘stable’ yet infidelitous marriages go out of fashion and being a divorced cougar is no longer as much of a stygma as it is now.
Roissy’s observations about ‘options’ makes some logical sense, but I don’t think most cheating is people out on the prowl for the best they can get. Lots of highly desirable married men wind up opportunity fucking their flat assed secretaries, even though they could do much better with earnest effort. Women being the ones to be approached are probably even more prone to this opportunity fucking when cheating on their spouse.
I also still don’t think that these couples that stay married actually cheat less, so lack of ‘options’ in finding a desirable sex/relationship partner aren’t the deciding factor. It’s lack of options in obtaining a higher status and better lifestyle. There was a BotM featuring the Mortimer’s. Tinsley, the early-30s socialite wife (but married her husband at 27)was swooped by a European Noble. If your SWPL wife was able to run in the social circles that brought her into contact with German Princlings with their own castles, divorce would be in the works just like it is for your rampantly hypergamous prole women. Yet another investment banker, lawyer, et cetera, even if he does have double the husband’s income isn’t going to do the trick. It’s better to just cheat, and stay married.
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K(yle) says, “It’s only a matter of time before the New English Whitopia with its McMansions and ‘stable’ yet infidelitous marriages go out of fashion and being a divorced cougar is no longer as much of a stygma as it is now.”
Ah, but when being a cougar loses its stigma, it will simultaneously go out of style because of female hypergamy.
Men who are older than them will become interested in them, and fewer will resort to younger men.
Though there will always be a substantial proportion who are essentially preselecting young alphas or grooming young betas due to a type of ephebophilia, extremely low standards, or a kind of twisted maternal fixation, most women prefer men who are higher status than them. A younger man just doesn’t have what most women really want if they have other options.
I’d have never gone near younger men during my little phase if I had known all I had to do was wait a little while for life to teach some of my wish list the important lessons they needed to learn.
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Tyrone
“I’d agree with that. Being gay eliminates the mind games men have to jump through to get sex. Gay men seem to be concerned about sex first and foremost. I’m probably one of the few heterosexual men you will meet that gets as much sex as he wants from his marriage.”
Yeah gay men are just like straight men when it comes to sex, but I think there’s a lot more intimacy than in gay relationships than most people realize.
“I’m intrigued by your confession regarding your mother however. I’m convinced that the majority of gay men have a dominating and corrosive psychotic female presence in their lives, usually a mother. A guy I used to be friends with in High School and still like, just haven’t seen him in years, turned out gay, and I always theorized it was due to his mother. She is a domineering and conniving woman who crushed his soul in many ways. I think this is a much bigger factor than a genetic explanation. I’d be interested in hearing your comments on this.”
I definitely think there is a genetic / biochemical factor as recent evidence has shown:
http://nymag.com/news/features/33520/
But I think that’s probably half the story. I used to believe the genetic theory, but over the years I saw the same patterns time and time again: psycho moms, single moms with no father figure, broken homes, physical or sexual abuse. I think there are probably many reasons people become gay. Some may be entirely biochemical, some may be Freudian, or some may be a preference that they learned early on through sexual experimentation with other boys.
There have always been gay men in history, and sex between men was not unusual and took different forms in different societies. But what explains the rise in obligate homosexuality in the west in the past century? I think it has to do with the breakdown of the extended family and the redefinition of traditional sex roles. In a nuclear, atomized family, female emotional power becomes a smothering and oppressive force. A mother who uses her son as an emotional hedge against her unhappy marriage or lack of man in her life is inappropriately forming a quasi-romantic relationship with her son. She is sure to form a massive Oedipal complex. The harpy needs to be contained, or else it will unleash its terrifying emotional manipulations on it’s nearest target. It it is her own son, that boy will be damaged by spending years of his childhood trying to dodge and parry his mother’s capricious outbursts, so is it any wonder that when he hits puberty he sees women not as sex objects, but as frightening beasts?
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I went with the cuckhold who immediately forgave his whore of a wife. The guy who allows his gf have to one-night stands was a close second…but there really is something uniquely pathetic about a man who was humiliated on national TV by his wife’s dalliances and just pretends as if nothing happened.
Words fail.
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“The pathetic mewling of the untermensch. ”
Reminds me of a very important book – THE REVOLT AGAINST CIVILIZATION: THE MENACE OF THE UNDER MAN: http://books.google.com/books?id=2NNLAAAAIAAJ&dq=the+revolt+against+civilization&printsec=frontcover&source=bn&hl=en&ei=5Kj0S8e3GoL48Aa90aGkBQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CCsQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q&f=false
Read it and understand the bleak future of humanity unless certain steps are taken.
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Seth:”I used to believe the genetic theory, but over the years I saw the same patterns time and time again: psycho moms, single moms with no father figure, broken homes, physical or sexual abuse. I think there are probably many reasons people become gay. Some may be entirely biochemical, some may be Freudian, or some may be a preference that they learned early on through sexual experimentation with other boys.”
It has been scientifically proven that fraternal birth order plays a huge role in homosexuality; males who are born after previous male siblings, i.e. men who are younger brothers of older male brothers, have a much higher incidence of being gay – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraternal_birth_order_and_male_sexual_orientation
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1,600 votes in the poll. Nice!
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Well, the standard policy in the ancient Greek philosophers was to have sex with young boys to avoid the distraction and thoroughly detrimental to students’ minds and their academic process that women caused.
*crap* I forgot where I was going with that….
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@Puma
I think GBFM lozlzlzlzlzlzlzlzlzlzlzlzlzlzlzlz’ed when he pressed the button, and ended up voting several hundred times.
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Toughest choice ever. Have to go w/#2 though. The wifey can not take other cocks without my permission.
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#2 is definitely the most beta. Why on earth would he so quickly forgive his wife for cheating on him and abandoning their child? What a pussy!
#1 is almost as bad. That guy probably has a demented cuckold fantasy where he eats her out after she’s had sex with a random stranger, but at least he isn’t married to that whore.
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ur wrong–its a mutually beneficial relationship.
These guys are ‘one pump chumps’ and ‘pencil dicks’ (like tiny pencil Dick Cheney) so its a good deal for them to have a fairly hot chic who is a little freaky in bed versus a fugly fat chic who lays there like a cold limp fish and she wont even like ur a guys arse!
u dont see the brothas (black, PR–OK OK and a couple white guys too) who can really thro it down gettin pussy whipped do ya??!!!!
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It’s not 1, he might just not see sex as a big deal.
It’s not 2, he is looking out for his kid.
It’s 3, who is making a ton of effort to apologize for nothing.
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