Reason One
Money is becoming less important as a male attractiveness criterion for women. Note that this doesn’t mean women don’t prefer richer men than themselves; what it means is that more women are making good money and thus the pool of higher income men is smaller than it was in the past. Since women are incessantly driven by their genetic algorithm to seek a higher status mate than themselves, they will respond to culturally imposed shifts in mate quality by evaluating men based on whichever attractiveness traits signal the men’s higher status. As money becomes relatively less important at signaling male status, other criteria will emerge to take its place, such as looks, charm, thuggishness and…. wait for it….
game.
Reason Two
Marriage is on the outs. Wives are being encouraged to dump their husbands, and men are rethinking the wisdom of getting hitched. As falling rates of marriage soak up fewer young single women, men will have more unencumbered pussy to plunder, and they’ll do it with… wait for it…
game.
Reason Three
Chicks dig it.
First!
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Great post
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Thuggishness is an attractiveness criteria?
[ed: rihanna tingled.]
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The thing about money is that the same qualities in a man that allow him to make tons of money are also the qualities that allow him to score with chicks.
Game works in multiple ways.
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http://www.emandlo.com/2009/03/confession-i-want-to-do-my-boyfriend-with-a-strap-on/
The new craze that is sweeping the nation!
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Not directly relevant to this topic, but in the comments after recent posts, there’s been much discussion on the value of virginity or relative chasteness. I’m aware of the bonding effects of oxytocin, particularly in females, and the idea that repeated exposure to the hormone dulls its effects. As well, there are other rationales for favoring women with fewer rides on the cock carousel, including fewer heartbreaks (each one can make her more jaded, less trusting, and less able to love fully).
But whatever the underlying rationale, is there any data that clearly demonstrates that fewer past partners for a woman makes for more stable LTR/marriage?
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I’m almost more excited to hear what great books for men will say….this made my day….
“so last nite my friend after orgazming moaning goes whahah “so are we… are we just frineds with benefits?” she asked.
i said, “awww sweety no of course not,” and i pulled her in and hugged her and whispered, “we’re just benefits.”” – Greatbooksformen
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@Willy Wonka
Yes. Along with Assholeness and Douchebaggeness.
@ExtraStout
High bakers/CEO’s that got in their positions by kissing ass and backstabbing other men get eviscerated by women in the Cuntracious Court System too. Just like the guys that got there by hard work and effort.
Also, guys that say FIRST on threads usually are known for saying that in bed. With the same enthusiasm.
@Roissy
I’m going to go with a page of Whiskey’s vision of the future and say that mos guys will either Thug it Up or go in a celibate-videogame/future porn technologies-based-permanent-retreat.
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I was at an industry event and noticed one guy doing what Mystery advises against: looking “tough” or “hard” in a room where all other guys, whether alpha or beta, were friendly and conversational.
At a mingling event later on I came up to talk to him because I was interested in the line of business he represents, and he went off with AMOG bullshit. Just the two of us talking, no chicks nearby. F-that, I thought, and responded with aloof friendlines, then bailed on him because I wasn’t in the mood for douchebaggery.
Later I saw him talking to girls, and he seemed to have the rudiments of Game. Lesser alpha is how I pegged him. Unnecessarily alienates other guys. You agree?
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@PA
Should have negged him and gone to kino asap
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“Thuggishness is an attractiveness criteria?”
[ed: rihanna tingled.]
and let’s not forget this telling example either :
http://www.imnotobsessed.com/2010/04/26/tito-ortiz-jenna-jamesons-boyfriend-arrested-for-domestic-violence
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Game is the door that opens to a whole new life. A life that puts YOU first. It’s a philosophy.
IMHO – Landing cute chicks is just part of the package that comes with this mind shift.
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I always hear about how being an asshole works wonders, but I find it just drives people away from me. How do you convert being a jaded angry asshole that hates everyone and everything into getting women?
“Just be an asshole and then ***********. Now you have a girlfriend! Rinse and repeat.”
Can someone fill in the blank for me?
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lozzllzzl! women’s are being encouraged to dump their men by ben bernanke and the federal reserve that is what feminist studies trains womenz 2 do dump their menz lozzlzllz a cebntral plank of the communist manifesto is a central bank THE FED and also teh destruction of marriage (bernanke’s divorce regime fronted by jonah goldberg telling men they need nice qomenz to tame them, while teh women are being butthexed in teh bakc room and desouled one by one by tucker mas which is why tucker max rhymes with goldman sax lolzozlzlzlzlz omg) omg lzozlzlzl dump dump your men and rape their assets and divorce alimonies lzozlz and ben bernanke wwires womenz fiat cash and uses fiat cash to train an entire legal apparatus feminist judges lawyers and women editors and writers to publish and promote tucker max and repeat his lies that he is six feet tall in the pages of the weekly standard liek charlotte allen did and then jonah goldberg chimes in and says we need womenz to tame menz after they funded tucker max to desoul women during his butthexing campaigns whence he films butthex without the girl’s consent lzozlzllzlz.
marriage and seeking marriage and askng a chick 2 marry you these days is so beta that it’s omega.
“to propose to a owman is to give someone a diamond who so many others had when she was younger hotter tighter tighter hotter younger FOR FREE!!!!” lzozlz
lzozlzl !
lozzlzl!
shouitout to my main man roiisy!! http://roissy.wordpress.com/2010/03/31/the-number-one-dead-giveaway-that-your-wife-is-about-to-cheat/#comment-163499
i can’t believe that you lzoozozlzlzoeersss still have women living in your homes or that you ever spend a moment counting their menstaral cycle dayss.s.s.. lzozlzllzlllz!!
have you heard about the fmeinist movement?
like now women have a right to their own bodies and they get their own fiat cash from ben bernanke so let them get their own apratments! lolzlzlzlz!!
and there ar elike dna tests now….
1) do not get married
2) do not date
3) pump n dump lzozllz
asking a women on a date is a sign of betaness. asking a women to get married is a sign of gammaness, unless she is a loyal virgn.
think about it lzolzlzlzllers!!
to propose to a owman is to give someone a diamond who so many others had when she was younger hotter tighter tighter hotter younger FOR FREE!!!!
you are about to pay $10,000 and risk millions more for something I had for free when it was in far better condition lzozlzl
the best cure of ed is yp.
the best cure for erectile dysfunction is young pussy lozzllzlzlzl!!!
why are all u guys worried about women?
to spend a second worrying about how many cocks are in her vagina when you’re not there is kinda silly and you can be thrown in prison for worrying about this under the fed’s and neocon’s laws. lozlzlz! then you’ll have to worry about coks in your own anus as opposed to cocks in her pussususysysysys lolazz
the federal resevre’s takeover of women as intruments of welath transfer has ruined them for men. the soulless beasts are of no use to us naymor lzolzlz!!
i mean i feel bad for all the 30 year olds with sore anuses who wasteed their best years with roissy’s cock in their poop chute instead of building a family story via fiath and loyalty to a man lzozlz. but hey–that’s what women choose, as they have no foresight nor moral imagination lzozlozlzlz
haven’t you guys figured it out yet?
women were transformed from the goddess archetype into the temptress archetype to serve ben bernanke & teh federal reserve.
fifty short years a go a woman would have had one partner–you.
now you are expected to shell out $$$$$$ after she has taken numerous massive cocks in all her orfices lzozlzlzllzl
some of us were yet raised in families wherein two parents got along and dad laid down the law like a man. today he (the real alpha) would be thrown in prison as ben bernanke (the beta males) and his feminist police state are backing women.
a fiat currency inverts debt and welath, as well as alphaness and betaness.
alpha manhood comes from character, honor, and integrity.
beta manhood, which charlotte allen tries to pass off as alpha manhood in the weekly standard, is more akin to tucker max who performs secretive tapings of anal sex with girls without the girl’s consent, and thus is held up by neocon charlotte allen as the paragon of alphahood lzolzlz
all you guys thinking you’re betas you’re not. you’re real men.
all teh alphas like mystery are frauds in tehir furry hats and makeup and eye liner lzozlzllzl! wake up and smell teh coffeee!!!!
the federal reserve wants access to your home and bank acocunt, and feminist studies teach women how to transfer your wealth to the fed lzozlz. and then tehy end up single and alone, as the fed pumps and dumps them.
sweety i am sorry ben bernake and the banking cartel pumped and dumped you and programmed you to act on your baser butthex instincts as opposed to your exalted soul lozlzlzl maybe ben benranke can wire you some fiat dollars to feed your cats lzoz
nd Jonah Goldberg’s Primal “Lord of The Flies Neocon Savagery” Tamed by His Beuatiful (lozl) Wife!!
omg lozlzl chekc out jonah goldberg’s wife!!
“nuff said!” lzozlzl!
a most civilizing force that tamed the savage, primal jonah goldberg!!
jonah writes:
“March 10, 2010 12:00 A.M.
Where Feminists Get It Right
Women civilize men. ’Nuff said.
http://greatbooksformen.wordpress.com/2010/03/11/jonah-goldbergs-primal-lord-of-the-flies-savagery-tamed-by-his-beuatiful-wife/
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Solid Lollzlzl guy screed. This one was like Allen Ginsberg’s “Howl” except not demented.
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i was out with three moedls the other night and i swear to god one of them said “why are there no good men left?”
i lozllzozlzlzlzzled aloud thinking of that cartoon and her in it:
http://roissy.wordpress.com/2010/05/11/ms-paint-windows-to-the-soul/
so like there were around 20 and i gently asked “you guys wanna know wht dating is dead?”
yah yhah tehy all nodded eagerly.
“Well,” i said, leaning back and hooking my thumbs in my belt loops, “you guys ever have a one night stand?”
i dropped it on them and there was taht silence that said, “yes.”
lzozlzllz
so i goes, “Well, why would a guy take you on a date when the last dude got it for free?”
“yes,” said one of them, “and the thing is i always feel so empty the next mroning.”
lzozlzlzlz omg lzozozozlz omg lzozlzl
“but do you feel empty when it’ sliding ten inches in, ten inches out and you’re gong ya h yah yha yhay yhayahayayahayah omg yah yaha hit it harder faster harder faster!!!!!”
they just looked at me.
“lozlzlzl see girls like telling you they feel “empty” the next day whenever a guy gets away without giving them lottsa money for tehir vaginal regions. that’s why they want dudes to marry them, so taht after the cock is out they can fill up on his bank acocunt and assets and not feel so empty.”
“that is sooo true!” the cokehead one laughed.
& she took me home later on and we lozlzozlled all night and i bet u anything she told some beta that she felt empty the next day and he bought her dinner lzozllzlz
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At first I was going to argue that thuggishness isn’t an indication of status- as most of soceity tends to look down on thugs.
Then I realized that this is the ones who look down on thugs are the “civilized” betas and alphas. For women a thug that causes a gina tingle, and causes jealousy in the friends because her man is “hot”, is high status and worthy- his morality is completely irrelevant.
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Hey, greatbooks, do you have some sort of hand seizure condition or keyboard Tourette syndrome?
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So… I think game should be taught in H.S. as an elective.
I think Lads should be game enhanced before ever setting foot on a college campus.
I took Home Economics and cooking because the girl/boy ratio was golden. I was in a room with about 23 girls and the only other male there was a gay kid.
I had my ass grabbed daily by the ladies… and had em fighting over me for a date. so much drama, and my digital answering machine was always loaded with steamy messages.
These weren’t the girls you took home to momma, they were the ones you jumped under the bleachers
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@ GBFM
Nailed it.
But there are other, more practical reasons why men are more willing to commit to women with few sexual partners. In my experience, women who have had many sexual partners have low(er) impulse control and a tendency to view men as disposable. They also tend to be more emotional/irrational. None of these are desirable traits in the context of an LTR.
I’ve really warmed up to your trolling. Especially that one where you rhyme “Tucker Max” and “Goldman Sax”.
Keep it up.
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@assholewithnogame
Its not about being an asshole really. Its about selfishness and self absorption. Being a true asshole means noticing the slave class. High status does not acknowledge the slave class. To the untrained eye it appears being an asshole. Its like running someone down with your big ass SUV not because you hated them, but because you never notice those people. It also tends to work more on younger women on pedestals.
Its always about status.
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you make good points, sir.
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It’s also something that requires continuous improvement, refresher courses, and updates about what isn’t working as well, as more guys start overusing openers like “who lies more guys or girls”
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a*h*withnogame,
you said it yourself. The problem is not that you are an a*h*, it is that you are a “jaded, angry” one. Just lose the anger and appear to be enjoying yourself and a*h* game will work.
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@Puma
You make an interesting point; care to expand on it a bit? What is this mind shift? In what sense does game involve putting oneself first? It’s got to be something a little more subtle than just living your life in the most self-absorbed manner possible: I assume you’re talking about a certain way of relating to people.
Thanks,
EGL
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There will come a day when game has become blunted from over use… and Game 2.0 will launch.
There will always be a better mousetrap to build.
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“I’ve really warmed up to your trolling. Especially that one where you rhyme “Tucker Max” and “Goldman Sax”.
Keep it up.”
yah well what you gotta realize is that neocons ben bernanke wire cash created from thin air to both goldman sax and tucker max lzozlzlzozlzll because for them the money power is not enough but they get their kicks off of desouling women via secretive tapings of butthex without the girl’s consent as it is not enough to debauch the currency and rob from teh common man via inflation tax which rhymes with goldman sax and tcuker max, but they will not be happy until every single womenz in america has been sluitted up and desouled by some betadouche epic film failure tucker max which is why simon and schuster, run by a woman, is publishing tucker max’s next book as neocone wome love porn and war as much as their men if not more which is why charlotte allen exalts tucker max and repeats his pr lies in the pages of the neocon’s weekly standard while hjonah goldberg tuffs his face on dc pizza and proclaims unto gthe world that women are needed to tame men while the whole time they have the tucker well-oiled butthex machine sodomizing and desouling women beofre sending them forth to rape and pillage men’s assetts lozlzzozzllzlzzll as teh poor little ladies don’t know taht they are working for teh fiat masters instead of god as women are weak willed and even tehir best and brightest like charlotte allen can be fooled into thinkingtaht tucker max is a six foot god shen he’s a short secretive taper of butthex lzozlzllzzlzlzl zzlzlzozzlz lzzozozlzll and then teh eviler neocon women are clapping their neocon hands and telling young omenz to follow their gina tingles on towards vampires and werewolves lzozllzlz
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“Money is becoming less important as a male attractiveness criterion for women. ”
lzozlzl Dude as chix have a direct fiat cash line to ben bernanke money is beocming more and more important as i’m not just gonna wham bam thank you mam unless you buy me shitz now lzozlzlzlzl i mena share some of that hot, fresh fiat cash dripping with anal douche!!
c’mon donna be a selfish prude! Share da wealth zlzlozlz
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“So… I think game should be taught in H.S. as an elective.”
Yeah, because a bunch of liberal, unionized herb and beta teachers are exactly whom you want teaching something as important as game.
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W B,
It might be actual Tourette’s not keyboard spasticism. Tourette’s folks have very quick reactions and creative verbal associations.
NYC Bach,
Some girls truly find thugs so disgusting that there is no tingle, but the majority will respond to a thug who also has some game. (Thuggishness alone without any social skills only works with messed-up girls you want to avoid at all costs anyway.) The interesting question is how to take advantage of this if you are not a thug yourself. I think it is possible if you are either physically very formidable (then you score by taking her to clubs with bad riff-raff whom you can nonetheless handle), or if you carry a gun.
phebo,
Oh yes, High School is such a great playground for guys who understand game, because the competition is clueless. Just saw the movie Kick-Ass last night, the hero used gay game to get close to a girl (9.5), then told her he was actually straight right after he’d scared the crap out of her and her heart was racing. Score. (Terrific movie in every way, if you grant the moral premise that every single member of a murderous criminal gang deserves death just for being in the gang, even if they have never killed anybody directly. And the Hit-Girl character is mind-fuckingly awesome.)
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China’s version of Roissy got arrested: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/21/world/asia/21china.html
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Reason 1 – agree somewhat. Money will stop being a bright line requirement for girls because they will generally be making more money and overall prospects for high-income employment are waning across the board. But because of that, those men who maintain traditionally high-incomes and white collar jobs will see an increase in their status. They will become more rare. So blue collar guys will get shots at girls they might not have had a chance with before, but those fortunate guys holding on to high-income employment will see their status points go up significantly.
Reason 2 – disagree. Girls want to get married, and they always will. And I know this will upset many on here, but the reason women are filing for divorce 66% of the time is due to the man’s marital misconduct, or his general blase attitude towards getting the paperwork filed. The article Roissy links to points out over and over again how married women really want it to work out, even to the point of making themselves look like total fools. And Roissy’s excellent work on dating market value establishes why 30 something women NEED their marriages to work out with husband #1. I know there are exceptions to the rule, and there are problems with the laws as they are on the books in many states, but if marriage is going to be saved in this country, it will be saved by men stepping up, fighting temptation, and following through on their commitment. The women are waiting (and wishing with all their diminishing market-value hearts) for men to step up and lead on this.
Reason 3 – agree of course.
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sidewinder the vagina writes “Reason 2 – disagree. Girls want to get married, and they always will. And I know this will upset many on here, but the reason women are filing for divorce 66% of the time is due to the man’s marital misconduct, or his general blase attitude towards getting the paperwork filed. The article Roissy links to points out over and over again how married women really want it to work out, even to the point of making themselves look like total fools.”
LZ?OZLZLZOZLZLOZLL!L!O!O!O!
fuck you you fucking fucktard.
FUCK YOU!!
like do you ride aorund on your vagina bike to each and every house to see that it really is the men just not filling out a form? lzozlzlzlzlzl
do you ride around on your vaginabike seieng that it is marital misconduct by a man, which, as defined by ben bernanke and his neocon firends is ACTING LIKE A MAN is now illegal.
here is a picture of sidewinder’s vaginabike.
this is what he rides form house to house in assessing if men just aren’t filling out the paperwork and coming up with lies to perseucte men.
hey sidewinder FUCKTARD.
men get absofuckinglutely NOTHING out of marriage these days.
they can get hotter/fresher/tigher pussy outside marrage
they can have kids outsida marriage
they can get meals and cooks and maids outsida marriage
they can get firends and converstations outside amrraige
all while enjoying thier hard earned cash
hell tehy can take time off, work less, and read the gGREA BOOKS more without some controlling bitch rifling through teh computer and assets to take them to ben bernanke lzozlzlzllzlzz
add it all up, and all the above can be purchased for a FRACTION OF THE PRICE and NONE OF THE RISK of marriage. lozlzzll
go back to your vaginabike you fucking lloolooozer loser. lzozlz
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Man, america is so fucked up. In my patriarchal country you can see hot chicks in their late 20s almost fighting for rich men. It’s truly sad to see our girls going for the modern way of life. They end up losing their feminine glaze, and we can see that in their deep they wanted to be housewifes at 18.
Do some reactionary revolution for God sake.
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GBFM,
I agree that a man sacrifices much in getting married. All I’m saying is, this site makes a boogieman out of marriage and married women. If the man wanted the marriage to work, and resisted the temptation to get out of the commitment to do all the wonderful activities you list in your post, most divorces wouldn’t happen. It is a myth that there are all these 30 something women leaving their husbands for no good reason whatsoever, just to rape him in divorce court. Sure, it happens. But the common real story is that the guy is tired of the marriage, he’s cheated or tried unsuccessfully to cheat, both husband and wife make each other miserable, and husband checks out mentally/emotionally. If men wanted these marriages to continue, most of them would continue.
I know there are exceptions and I don’t mean to disrespect any men on here who have been the victim of the exceptional circumstances.
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“China’s version of Roissy got arrested:”
Stop the presses! Ben Bernanke’s fiat pimp hand reaches across the globe.
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“China’s version of Roissy got arrested”
Fuckin’ Bernanke! Now he’s corrupted the Chinaman.
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FACT: 2/3 to 3/4 of divorces are intiated by women
FACT: women do not want marriage, they want the man’s assets to fund their biker/drummer-cock pounding sessions before, after, and during marriage (lolzozzl)
FACT: when you get married in a church today, unlike any respectable prositute, your wife will be able to charge you indefinitely for past use of her wrinkled, aging pussy. this is a neocon $$$$ innovation as nowhere did jesus say, “to love and honor through sickness and health and to pay for past use of her pussy when i come home and find her banging my best firend on the kitchen table and yell at them and she calls teh cops and i am incarcerated for being abusive.” lzozlzlzl
i think we should come up with a new law stating that all married men must ride around on vagina bikes:
so taht little boys can laugh at them lzozlzlzozlz zlozlzlzozlzlz and never get ass raped by the neocon divorce/debauching/destabilizing regime lzozlzzzo zlzl
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@Sidewinder
66-75% of divorces are filed by wives. Read this peer reviewed academic research article here:
http://aler.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/2/1/126
Men being screwed due to no fault of their own is not “exceptional circumstances”. It is the NORM.
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Roissy,
Define “Game”.
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Game has always been relevant.
Regardless of what is going on today.
Game emulates the behaviors of men with absurd levels of confidence and self belief. That shit is always going to be relevant.
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VAGINABIKE RIDER Sidewinder
writes
“GBFM,
I agree that a man sacrifices much in getting married. All I’m saying is, this site makes a boogieman out of marriage and married women. If the man wanted the marriage to work, and resisted the temptation to get out of the commitment to do all the wonderful activities you list in your post, most divorces wouldn’t happen. It is a myth that there are all these 30 something women leaving their husbands for no good reason whatsoever, just to rape him in divorce court. Sure, it happens. But the common real story is that the guy is tired of the marriage, he’s cheated or tried unsuccessfully to cheat, both husband and wife make each other miserable, and husband checks out mentally/emotionally. If men wanted these marriages to continue, most of them would continue.
I know there are exceptions and I don’t mean to disrespect any men on here who have been the victim of the exceptional circumstances.”
HEY YOU FUCK TARD!!!
WOMEN CHEAT THESE DAYS YOU STUPID FUCK!!
THEY WORK NOT FOR THEIR HUSBANDS BUT FOR THEIR CEO!!
YOU GET MARRIED AND YOU COJME HOME TO A DARK HOUSE AS SHE HAS HER MBA AND IS FUCKING HER BOSS YOU FUCK!!
I WANT FUCKING DINNER ON THE TABLE AND MY COCK SUCKED LZOZLZLZLZLZLZ!
I WANT THE KIDS-MY KIDS–TAKEN CARE OF AND FED WELL!!
I WANT TO KICK BACK AND RELAX!!
I WANT HER TO ACT LIKE A WOMAN, AND NOT LIKE THE BALL-BUSTING BITCH ARMY THAT BERNANKE IS CREATING BY FINANMCING TUCKER MNAXES TO DESOUL AND BUTTHEX WOMENZ BEFORE MARRIAGE.
IF I DON’T GET THIS, THEN GET THE FUCK OUT OF MY HOUSE YOU BERNANKE BUTTHEXED DESOULED BEASTS!
WOMENZ GET A DIRECT LINE TO BERNANKE FIAT CASH RESERVES SO LET THEM GET THEIR OWN PLACES AND LET THEM GET OTHER BETAS TO BUTTHEX THEM AS I DON’T BUTTHEX!! OK?!!
YOU STUPID FUCK IT IS NOT A MYTH THAT WOMEN ASS RAPE MEN IN DIVORCE COURT AT THE BEHEST OF THE NEOCONS!!
READ THE FUCKING PHD RESEARCHERS YOU STUPID SIDEWINDER VAGINA-BIKE-RIDING-BUTTHEX LOVING IDIOT!! LZOZLZLZ
http://www.nomarriage.com/
http://mensnewsdaily.com/2007/11/14/do-not-marry-do-not-have-children/
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1925051/posts
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Poly said:
“you said it yourself. The problem is not that you are an a*h*, it is that you are a “jaded, angry” one. Just lose the anger and appear to be enjoying yourself and a*h* game will work.”
yeeesssss. There are several player types that comment here that seem like they pull this off well. Very Casanova-like. Chicks do dig game, but it has to be the right type for the particular chick. Match up is key. And yes, I would estimate that women do prefer men make more money than they do, or at least have the potnetial to—but it is not the deal breaker if one has charm, humor and intelligence to compensate. Good company can be worth its weight in gold. Jaded, angry company gets old real fast, even is the guy is loaded. Money can’t buy me love.
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@EGL
I will let the eloquent writer Novaseeker point you to the life-enhancing benefits of Game:
http://novaseeker.blogspot.com/2009/08/war-about-game.html
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Game
-noun
1. the art and practice of achieving personal (especially sexual) power and influence
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@Sidewinder
I know this will upset many on here, but the reason women are filing for divorce 66% of the time is due to the man’s marital misconduct
Are you the same sidwinder that accused me of pedastilizing women on the BOTM thread after I said:
“I think there is a basic question every man needs to answer when considering marriage (2.0):
Sure I love you and all, but why the f*** would I marry you?”
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@ greatbooksformen
“marriage and seeking marriage and askng a chick 2 marry you these days is so beta that it’s omega.”
hilarious.
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game will get you laid. money will get you married.
For every hot status whoring gold-digging bitch out their looking to get married to mr right/rich, theres at least 5 good looking muscular average/no job assholes like me who fucked her brains out when she was younger, hotter and tighter. Funny how women only really care about the career and money when they have a realistic chance of grabbing some of it.
You want my seconds???
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I think Sidewinder’s right. There’ more risk for a woman in marriage than there is for a man. True, a man may lose some cash. But he will have an easier time (1) finding a new spouse and (2) starting another family. The woman, on the other hand, is screwed. Most guys don’t want to deal with a 19-year old cute chick with a kid little less a 40-year old, less attractive mother of three.
I wonder why so many guys on here think that “game” works such wonders. Some of you act like it was just invented. Didn’t you go to high school? Did some of you think that you were going to get a good job and then all of a sudden the hot cheerleader type was going to wanna boff you?
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llozlzlzoz i love it how euro is crashing today going down faster than american womenz after leaving the club you just met her in ten minutes before lzozlzl
see goldman sax ass fucked europe while bernanke and his freinds and teh women editor in chief publishers at simon and shuster and neocon charlotte allen financeed, promoted, and reward tucker max’;s secretive tapings of butthex without the women’s consthent lzozllzlzlz
i am glad some of you otehrs are seeing this as for a while now i have been feeling loike i was teh only sane one in teh room lzozlzlzl and that everyone else was craxy crazy zlozlzzlzozlzllz
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whats £60,000 in dollars? i might not be too average after all, but my job isn’t too impressive, i’m a low rung work horse at best, money never comes into me getting laid, most ass i ever got when i was unemployed, permanently high and with a tonne of time on my hands.
Always best to lie anyways as an integral part of your game, i’m a hard up stripper on weekends, just trying to put myself through Uni. I got my degree 4 years ago.
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@ Sidewinder
This is so laughably, incredibly false I scarcely know where to begin.
The problem with modern marriage isn’t so much the man’s inability to control his need for sexual variety, as it is that our society is raising so many women who are ill-equipped for the demands of the insitution. We are busy raising the most entitled girls on the planet who grow up with the most unrealistic expectations of men and marriage. The grown women then flood the sexual marketplace with their 30-bulletpoint checklists of the ideal guy—all of which are dealbreakers—while dismissing decent guys in their midst when they are at their most attractive, opting instead to get split open by different cock every month while wondering where all the good men have gone. When one of these wenches finally does get a sucker to put a ring on it, they’re completely unprepared for things like committment/fidelity, and unable to see their husband’s needs (ie, sexual intimacy and a physically attractive partner) as every bit as important as her own. We’re raising women who want weddings, but don’t want to be wives. You couple this with misandric divorce laws and it becomes easy to see why marriage 2.0 looks exactly the way it does.
It’s not surprising that many women in their 30s would take off even though they have vastly dimished prospects of acquiring another quality mate. Thanks to cougar movement, you now have 35 & 40 yr old women walking around with the incredible delusion that they are somehow every bit as physically attractive as they were when they were 20. A lot of these women really think they’ve got a second chance at it—that they can still complete with younger women. The mind reels.
Women file for divorce is 70 percent of the cases, the majority of which do not cite marital infidelity as the cause of the split. I’m sorry, but you just cannot pin that on us guys.
You’ve posted here too many times to not have a clue, buddy.
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I’m going to think out loud. Too tired to work, but can’t sleep.
People are an education. An education in the variations of personality and beliefs. When beliefs clash with mine, I tend to assume it’s because people are dumb and willfully deluded. Usually I’m right.
But sometimes I’m just plain puzzled. JB has puzzled me lately. He seems a bright and articulate guy, who doesn’t seem at war with facts. Yet he has a strong preference for sex only with serious mates – no half measures for him. I can’t wrap my head around it. Sidewinder seems to be a balanced character. Respectful and desiring to own personal responsibility in relationships. Yet he seems blessedly uneducated in the vile ways of female nature.
I forget who said that learning to be Alpha with girls via fucking a lot of them is dragging yourself through the muck. Maybe it was JB. Yes, it’s true. Education comes at a cost. The loss of innocence. It’s a dirty, dirty business.
I think it’s been said by a lot of guys, in a lot of different ways, that the more you date, the less respect you get for women. I think you gain an edge, and become wizened, and see things more clearly. Some on this blog – I forget who – maybe happiness – think that it’s pure cynicism and nothing but a substitute narrative about female nature to see them as having as fundamental basis of their personality a a substrate of devilish whorish selfish desire. I think that person also considered that I mishmash my ideas from various PUA materials. I haven’t read any PUA materials – not one book, and only this website. That my experience in places mirrors the thoughts of others isn’t due to a mixing and mashing of ideas, but the coincidence of many people seeing the same elephant and describing it in overlapping ways.
Ok, I’m supposed to summarize the ramble at this point, but this is just a thinking out loud rambling post. The congealing into insight of all the random thoughts may happen at a later date.
Oh ya. It’s a puzzle to me how JBs and Sidewinders and my attitudes towards women can be so varied. We’re all sincere enough blokes. Guys like Ryder and happiness and Tood and some other haters I can get – they are just retarded. But the sincere guys who differ so radically in attitude – that’s still a puzzle.
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don’t you guys see that a fiat currency naturally ass fucks the common man and women and that’s why the neocons love tucker max the secretive taper of butthex without the girl’s consent as a literary hero and why they made damned sure that tucker max rhymes with goldman sax lzozlzllzlzlzlz. see the neocons use butthex as a litmus test. if you do not think that butthexing girls and filming it without their consent is heroic, then you will not be allowed into teh inner cirlce at goldman sax and teh weekly standard as you cannot be trusted. lozlzlzlzozzllzlzl
the neocons totally fucked/ass-raped all teh womenz and it was good going while they could a) bang alphas and b) get betas to pay for it as teh enocons are excellent at privatizing profits and socializing risks as a fiat debt based dollar is the ultimate way to do this as the creator of debt–the bernanke and goldman sax butthexers take no risks and do no work but merely create an army of desouled womenz via their tucker max secretive butthexing campaigns, and then get the women to transfer wealth on up towards the central banks lzozlzlzozl who do nothing but create debt and let it trickle down to enslave teh world while the fiat cash funds tehir fiat wars and men’s assets trickle on up towards the goldman saxers buthhexers whose lies about thei rheight charlotte allen repeats in the pages of the weekly standard and not even the southpark loozers idiots can satirzie this as southpark is for ritalin drugged up fanboyz who never read a great book and never met their true father and the puropse of southpark was to cast jesus as a pig fucker whcih is why you hear of south park conservgatives because neocns hate jesus and love calling him a pig fucker and rewarding those who call him a pig fucker and wirng bernanke cash to tucker max because it whymes with goldman sax and both specialize in secretive tapings of butthex and assfuccking without the girl’s consent as teh culture and currency are debauched and millions aborted and ebn bernanke reigns supreme via his butthex regimev lzozlzlozzlzlzozo
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To briefly interrupt…
I hereby officially nominate Silvio Berlesconi as Alpha Male of the Century.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/picturegalleries/worldnews/7270159/Silvio-Berlusconis-women.html
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Not “Berlesconi”… Berlusconi.
My bad.
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@GBFM
You really need to break up those blocks of text with a few more lozlzozlozlzozlzolz, you know just to make it more readable.
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Realist
It undermines my core beliefs to much too lie – I couldn’t get any pleasure out of it – but if I were into it this is a lie with panache.
Well, I do a lot of role play. One favorite is to pretend that I’m just picking up my LTR on the street. “Hey little girl, what’s your name? Do you speak English?” I never go full out and pretend I am the role playing – but I can see how pretending to be a fireman or a stripper would be a blast.
But do you feel empty inside when you do that?
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@ polymath, Tourettes maybe, but equally it could be from furious masturbation sessions over the Financial Times and WSJ. A lot of well-read people understand the scam that is the Federal Reserve, but I can’t say that I’ve ever seen it put together with PUA.
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lzozllzlz
hey how much would you pay for my book?
tehre are no secretive tapings of butthex without the girl’s consent true stories in my book so i’m not sure simon and schuster will publish it and i’m not sure jonah goldberg wil like it and i’m not sure that charlotte allen will give me a few paragraphs repeating my PR lies in the pages of the weekly standard and i don’t yet even have any PR lies so i am not sure the neocon butthexing publishing regime is gonna publish it even but anywhoo one cannot escpae one’s destiny as imagine if jesus or socrates would have backed dpown from speaking truth to the neocon butthexers even though they knew it would not land them book deals.
true story–neither jesus nor socrates ever set anything down save for when jesus wrote in teh sand with hsi finger lzollzlzlzl
but both are more famous than the neocons and that is why the neocons reward teh artless talentless porn porn southpark boyz for calling jesus a pig fucker lzozlzlzlzlz omg
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OMG W BAKER!!!
“W Baker
@ polymath, Tourettes maybe, but equally it could be from furious masturbation sessions over the Financial Times and WSJ. A lot of well-read people understand the scam that is the Federal Reserve, but I can’t say that I’ve ever seen it put together with PUA.”
i am not sure i have ever whacked off to the WSJ yet but will let you know if i do and i would if they had charlotte allen centerfolds or video dvds of tucker max’s secretive tapiongs of butthex but i imagine they want 2 keep it all ointhe down low as the WSJ wants to pretend that goldman sax’s main business is capitalism and not assex lzozlzlz
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@GBFM
I’d buy it for 10 pounds stirling, probably best to sell at £9.99 as is customary so it seems that bit cheaper, but only if you put lozlzozlzolzozlzozlz in where the punctuation should be.
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what difference will a fiat penny make?
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oh yah i am going to sell it in ounces of gold
you know mostly because when you get a fiat euro next time hgold it up to your nose and smell it–it smells like butthex, dripping with assdouche from the anuses primed by tucker max’s secertive tapings of butthex lzolzlzlz the best art a fiat currency can buy lzozl
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what would you call it??
You should make the title simply “lolz”, and the blurb, just to trick all the dumb sluts into buying it as well.
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Another random thought, that will win me no friends. I view clowns like Greatbooks to be fundamentally spineless, because the the buck doesn’t stop anywhere. No matter what they say, it’s in jest.
Ya, we all get it that girls behave badly. Now piece the fact that girls fart together with some integrity on how to love them.
Weak spineless pussy.
My favorite clown is Crusty. GBFM is just a vagina. I expect more from males.
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If less men have money, having money will be a good status signal. So game will become a less powerful influence.
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They’ll see see the cover, the back, flip a few pages and see all the lzolzozlzolz and buttthexx and think omg this book is so fun, i love laughing and having fun fun fun!!The typical thought proccesses of your average western slut.
Little did they know it’s a philosophical, political and economic masterpiece.
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TITLE: lozlzlzllzlz
JACKET BLURB: lzozlzl zlzozlzlzlz omg lzozlzlz lzzozozzlzllz omg in 2010 lzozozl GBFM found da roissy’s blog zlozlzlzlz and like made some friends but had to stay secret while battling the analsexing butthexing tuckermax/goldmansax/neocon nexthus. lzozlzllzlzlzlzl
BIO: OMG you fucktards are fucking crazier than i thought if ya thkn im gonna telol you anything about me with benernake printing billions and wiring it to man-hateing womenze running teh publsihing insudtry and serving teh neoconnn needs at the weeklys tandard i do not want my life but assraped and filmed without my consnet which is how the neocons handle tehir war agianst the common man lzozlzlz
BACK COVER TESTIMONAILS:
“lozozllzlzzl good stuff” — roiss
“lzozlzl zlzozlllzozzlzozl omg” –the realist
“the pupu could not stop lozlzozlzlzzllzlzzlzling” –pupu
“never before has someone tied butthex to fiat dollars to PUA so beautifully. i feel like now that someone has finally called us out, it is time to ass rape china. lzozllzz indeed!” –anonymous goldman sax MBA
“yah but womenz really want marriage yadayada yada men just don’t fill out paperwork yadadyada yuada”–vaginabike rider sidewinder
“the lozlzlzlzllllzlzing turned me off then turned me on. great alpha game from GBFM. i feel like i am one of teh coke-addled models he screws.” -anonymous beta commenter
“he misspelled butthex and lzozllzzl but i still felt the tingles lingles.” –charlotte allen
“Every ten years or so, the United States needs to pick up some small crappy little country and throw it against the wall, just to show we mean business. I am glad for brave alpha males like lzozllzllzlz who we send to die on foreign shores in fiat wars while i stuff my face with DC Pizza and watch my southpark boys call Jesus a pig fucker lzozzllzlzlz!!” –Jonah Goldberg
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mor eback cover testimonials:
“My favorite clown is Crusty. GBFM is just a vagina. I expect more from males.” –xsplat and here is a picture of xsplat’s bike which we’ll put on the back cover to put his “raisede by a sinjgle mom who was always baniging new bikers while his own dad was teh beta” views in persective:
lzozlzl
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This “women with good jobs” BS will all come crashing down as the economy resets. No more lawyers, no more publicists, no more non-profit coordinators. Also, for the lower middle class and housewife brigade, no more realtors, no more yoga instructors, no more cupcake stores.
This has all been caused by too much debt-financing, and government policies designed to shoehorn women into a man’s world. When the US comes crashing down and the government is no longer able to enforce quotas, you will see how many chicks get jobs at law firms, or how much money is kicking around for female frivolities like bi-weekly yoga sessions.
At that point, women will need men, and hopefully there will be a generation of 40-something year olds who will tell the younger generation of women to smarten up and avoid the mistake that they made.
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GBFM has a Weird All Yankovitch persona. Just empty inside. Nothing but satire and derision.
Vacuous.
I don’t care how much insight you throw around – you have no soul, so nothing you say adds up to anything more than a fart joke.
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So, uh, what great books do you recommend?
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Pfft, you’re wrong Roissy. Take it from a ‘goddess’:
Miranda Kerr has offered some inside tips to men on how to keep the fire burning in their love life.
The Aussie supermodel says guys should at all times be themselves and pay attention to their partner’s needs in their quest for romantic harmony.
Staying healthy, showing affection and a willingness to pamper are also attractive qualities in the eyes of the fairer sex, she says.
But it’s the little things that apparently mean the most.
“In my experience, it is the random small gestures that I find the most romantic,” she told bloke’s lifestyle website AskMen.com.
“It could be something as simple as making me a cup of tea or being given a foot massage while we are watching a movie at home after a long day at work.
“If more men made an effort to do these little things for their partner throughout their everyday life they would be guaranteed to have a more romantic relationship.”
Kerr revealed her top 10 romance tips to readers of AskMen.com, who voted her most desirable Australian woman in the world. They are:
10. Buy the right size
9. Listen to her
8. Connect with her
7. Know what you want
6. Don’t be afraid to show her love
5. Tell her she is beautiful and romance her
4. Get a baby sitter
3. Be healthy
2. Pamper her
1. Treat her like a goddess
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New law in UK extends anonymity in rape cases to defendants. Why haven’t we done this in the US yet?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/7746046/Rape-accused-to-be-given-anonymity.html
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OT but relevant..
—–
Elin Nordegren Divorce Demands Reach $750 Million: Report
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/05/21/elin-nordegren-divorce-de_n_584156.html
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Thugging it up seems the easiest way to go. It’s always easy to make another guy look bad by punking him out. That’s what happened to British underclass (Chavs) and the Black community, also the Hispanic community. A lot of the “senseless” killings by Zetas in Northern and Central Mexico and the US is just to get chicks. Believe me it works.
If you are a thug, all you have to do is be the toughest thug around. Moreover, thug play tends to drive out game. You can be the smoothest Casanova around, but if a guy decides to thug it up and uses violence, you’re out of the game unless you thug it right back at him. Which takes you out of Casanova time.
The wildcard is the economy. A complete collapse of the US dollar and say, remaking fiat currency into asset-backed (likely, silver, not gold) currency, perhaps even silver alloy coins with a demonstrable floor of value, plus seignorage, to restore confidence following debt-induced currency collapse, could destroy female-dominated jobs.
Other than nursing, in an economic collapse will we have female marketers, fashion folks, HR folk and so on employed? Security may be spelled M-A-N.
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Xsplat – some other JB posted some beta crap for a day and got things confused. He’s been gone since then.
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“GBFM has a Weird All Yankovitch persona. Just empty inside. Nothing but satire and derision.
Vacuous.
I don’t care how much insight you throw around – you have no soul, so nothing you say adds up to anything more than a fart joke.”
xspalt demonstrates how neocons prepare tehir prememptive wars against men, against foreign coountries, and against unborn fetuss of which 50,000,000 were ripped out of women in the USA by WOMEN’S muderous CHOCIE zlozlzlz.
xsplat uses the demanizing technique that bernanke trains his top bankers and neocon womenz abortionists to use:
“Fetuses have a Weird All Yankovitch persona. Just empty inside. Nothing but satire and derision.
Vacuous. Fetuses are not even life. lzolzlz
I don’t care how many lving cells you throw around – fingernails and hair — you have no soul, so nothing you say have up to anything more than a fetus joke.”
lzozlzllzll!!
the womenz they hear xpslapt’s/bernankes lies and they rip the fetus form tyehir wombs wetland rooms as wall street determined that it was cheaper to import pre-grown labor from mexico rather tahn taking womenz out of the work force and banging tehir ceos to raise the children and teach them disicpline so that they wouldn’t need to enrich the neocn pharmaceutical companies with adderol presciriptions lzozlzlzllzlzlzzll
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I will buy your theory only if Tucker Max gets his own show on F/X.
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You want to know how to make a girl come?
Make her feel that you deeply and meaningfully connect to her. Have some soul. Some honesty. Some depth.
Look her straight in the face, and love the slutty, little, bitch.
Get subterraneus on her. Be as Tolkien is to storytelling. Content rich. Overlapping themes. Have one glance contain histories and mythologies. Pedestalize nothing, and respect everything. Slap her in the fucking face.
GBFM at best could cause a clitoral orgasm. No woman would have a vaginal orgasm on a fool.
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^^^^ omg xsplat are you doing a satire of amateur hour or are u 4 real?
you’re one of those guys that whenyou takes of your pants and she laughs at your teensy cock you tell all your friends the next day “yah she was luaghing at all my jokes” lzozlzlzlz
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Ya, well I wish someone would straighten that shit out. I’m not amused.
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GBFM – you impress people like Maurice. People who were impressed with Obsidian.
I see you as a child.
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“It undermines my core beliefs to much too lie – I couldn’t get any pleasure out of it – but if I were into it this is a lie with panache.
Well, I do a lot of role play. One favorite is to pretend that I’m just picking up my LTR on the street. “Hey little girl, what’s your name? Do you speak English?” I never go full out and pretend I am the role playing – but I can see how pretending to be a fireman or a stripper would be a blast.
But do you feel empty inside when you do that?”
No not really because i only use it with the kind of girl i want to escalate really quickly, obviously i wouldn’t tell such lies to a possible LTR or someone i genuinely expect to be a part of my life for any meaningful amount of time. The aim of the stripper cover is to essentially bring my hot naked body(i’m a gymfreak) to the forefront of her brain and conversation, it tends to intrigue girls, make them extra touchy feely and ripe for swooping, but it’s one of many bullshit lines and is by no means a deal sealer. Heck half the time i’m sure they don’t even buy it but it’s one of those lies they could take as a joke. It’s a win win, if they buy it they usually get hott for me, if they don’t i still usually come off pretty well for talking shit and lightening the mood, once again hot for me. It’s a good lie and my looks/gymwork makes it believable and funny.
Many days/girls i refuse to entertain any conversation about my profession. Depends how i’m feelin. Theres nothing more fulfilling then talking any old shit on a whim.
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This “women with good jobs” BS will all come crashing down as the economy resets.
is that true? what makes people so sure that this whole system is going to come crashing down? maybe we can keep on creating money and inflating away debt indefinitely. that’s what jamie galbraith seems to think:
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2010/05/galbraith_the_danger_posed_by.html
BGFM, be sure to check out this interview. it’s right up your alley.
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“xsplat
GBFM – you impress people like Maurice. People who were impressed with Obsidian.
I see you as a child.”
dude don’t get jealous just cause i get more pussys dan you
come on out with me sometimes and i will let you take home the 8’s and 9’s that come our way but prolly not the 10’s if that’s ok with you & bernanke
lzozlzlzlzl
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p.s. i want to keep teh 10’s to myself for a bit before you and bernanke and tucker max and goldman sax butthex and them and film it without their consent and charlotte allen reprots on your heroic activities and repeatss your PR lies abnout your height inthe pages of the weekly standard lzozlzlzlz
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God, I wish the pain would stop. I miss her so bad.
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^^^^ xspalt taling to the sock puppet on his left hand lzozlzlzl
“God, I wish the pain would stop. I miss her so bad.”
how xsplat gets handjobs and blowjobs & hand & head @ the same time lzozlzlz and you walywas wonderd
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dudes someone made a tastey video representing me & my my lzozlzlzlzo game scoring chicks in da club swooosh every time form all angles and you betas never beleievs it!!
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Sidewinder—
Complete horseshiite. You know nothing.
Women overwhelmingly more often mentally abuse their husbands. Because they feel dissatisfied after awhile and find fault with every little thing, they previously shrugged off, or even used to find “boyishly charming” etc. Women leave marriages most of all for reasons like “he stopped growing and I feel stultified,” and “I feel trapped” and “we just grew apart”. What she means is that she’s not feeling it anymore for her beta husband, and feels entitled to go out and find a replacement man, or a period of a series of them, particularly if she’ll be well fixed post the divorce, with the child support, house, and more than half his money. Most men don’t feel entitiled to replace their wives. They always knew they’d be attracted, and strongly to other women. American women now tend to feel that if their feelings of being “in love” are no longer compelling, and they just “love him as a person”, that they aren’t doing justice to their lives by remaining. Especially since they’ll get so much divorce theft.Even when women divorce for male infidelity, that’s usually mostly an excuse, and a way of feeling self righteous about it, instead of partly somewhat guilty (which in any event her girlfriends especially divorced ones will work hard on dispelling).
See Michelle Langley, “Women’s Infidelity”.
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Well Elin can’t ask for more than half, so Tiger has $1.5 bill. He’s makes $100 mill a year before taxes but increase to $1.5 bill is possible over 10 years in the stock market and venture capital.
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What she means is that she’s not feeling it anymore for her beta husband, and feels entitled to go out and find a replacement man, or a period of a series of them, particularly if she’ll be well fixed post the divorce, with the child support, house, and more than half his money. Most men don’t feel entitiled to replace their wives.
– – – –
I’m curious as to your actual experience with this. You speak like you have absolute authority on the matter. Any wide surveys of women, any actual data here, even anecdotal or are you just hypothesizing?
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@ Ohio Stater
In May 2009, Forbes estimated that Tiger’s total net worth is about 600 million USD and that his career earnings totaled just over 1 billion USD. So I’m pretty sure that 750 million USD is more than half of his net worth.
My respect for this guy is already on life support, but if she gets away with this and gets full custody of their children he will be omega-level as far as I’m concerned.
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“vasafaxa
What she means is that she’s not feeling it anymore for her beta husband, and feels entitled to go out and find a replacement man, or a period of a series of them, particularly if she’ll be well fixed post the divorce, with the child support, house, and more than half his money. Most men don’t feel entitiled to replace their wives.
– – – –
I’m curious as to your actual experience with this. You speak like you have absolute authority on the matter. Any wide surveys of women, any actual data here, even anecdotal or are you just hypothesizing?”
hey vaginasafaxabutthexa
“Any wide surveys of women, any actual data here, even anecdotal or are you just hypothesizing?”
YOU STOOOPID BICTH BEFORE HTE WOMEN’S MOVEMENT FAMILIES LASTED AND EXISTSED BUT NOW THAT WOMENZ HAVE FREEDOM AND CHOICES MARRAGIES DIE AND CHICLDFREN ARE ABORTED YOU DUMB BITHC 50,000,000 ABORTED CHIRLDREN 50% + DIVORCE RATE YOU DUMB BITCH 2/3 OF DIVORCES INIGTIATED BY WOMENZ (who tucker maxes butthexed in secretive tapings of anal sex iwthout the girl’s conthent rewarded by the neocons you dummy bitch) YOU DUMB BITCH WE HAVE RECORD AMOUNTS OF CHILDREN BEING BROUGHT UP IN SINGLE HOMES AND RECORD AMOUNTS ON PRESCIPTION DRUGS AND RECORD AMOUNTS OF MONEY BEING TAKEN BY WOMENZ AND GIVEN TO BERNANKE AND YOU STAMP YOUR LITTLE FEET AND SAY,
“yah but does yas have statistics?”
lzozlzlzlz zlzlz omg zlozlzllzlzlzl
cook me dinner and i’ll give you some statistics lzozlzllzz until then stay out of my life and home zlzozllzlz and live with your cats and spend spend your fiat cash on clothing your little doggies as no babies will beomcing forth form your drying up womb under the bernanke butthexing tucker max goldman sax depolpupaltion 50,000,0000 aborted babibes BY WOMAN’S CHOICE millions of homes wrecked and marriageds ended BY WOMEN’S CHOICE lzozlzlz
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“hey vaginasafaxabutthexa ”
ahahahahhahazozl
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Doug1 and Dragnet,
The psychological profile you are describing is a hypergamous, young married girl. She marries young, and while still young realizes that she has dating market value that could probably land her another guy wit higher status. These girls will cheat, or just become total bitches, and then try to get every thing they can out of the divorce. But it isn’t an evil “strategy” or premediated con, it is just what often happens in our legal system.
But women who get divorced in their 30s or later, after kids, have every market incentive to stay with their husband, who’s market value is usually constant if not slightly improving. Older women would still be prone to moving up to a higher status male if given the opportunity, but most realize at that age and with children, they are not going to attract equal or higher status men. These women do not want to divorce and usually only do so after the guy checks out one way or the other. A lot of times they are forced to divorce him to protect their assets.
I’m definitely not saying girls are good and guys are bad. They are both usually self-interested and capable of deplorable behavior. All I’m saying is this boogieman that gets bandied about on this site about women deliberately using marriage to transfer a man’s wealth to themselves is completely wrong, and quite a bit paranoid.
That women are the ones that actually take the time to fill out and file the divorce petition does not mean anything. It doesn’t mean that they want the divorce and the man doesn’t. Often the guy has just left and the woman has to file in order to get him to contribute to child support, or to keep him from completely ruining her credit. Guys don’t like paperwork and they don’t like lawyers and spending money when they don’t have to, and for that reason they are much more likely to put off filing.
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It is a myth that there are all these 30 something women leaving their husbands for no good reason whatsoever, just to rape him in divorce court.
My wife used to work in an auto insurance office, and one day a woman came in to pay her bill and was visibly distraught. My wife asked what was wrong, and the woman explained that her husband had just told her he would no longer honor their weekly lunch date after being served with divorce papers (the high point of her week). When my wife asked why she was divorcing, the woman explained that she had asked her husband to fix the garbage disposal several months ago and he had failed to do so. All of her friends were divorced and they kept telling her to loose her husband. After talking with my wife the woman seemed to have changed her mind on the divorce, but my guess is once her friends had another go at her she would probably go through with it. Not to mention how could her husband ever trust her again after being ambushed with divorce papers like that.
This is just one story, but my wife saw this kind of thing all the time. The one that probably bothered her the most was the 4 year old boy who came in with his mother and excitedly announced, “we are getting a diborce!”. Poor kid had no idea what his mom was actually up to.
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Guys aren’t the one initiating divorces cause they don’t benefit from it.
Women initiate cause they benefit.
If the laws were changed to favor men…. then who knows what men would act like.
But right now, a man filing for divorce is facing down a loaded gun with his bare hands. Sure, someone, at sometime, has “won” with his bare hands.
But everyone knows how that little situation normally turns out.
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@xsplat:
What’s this about? A gratuitous cut? Look, we may not agree about everything, but let’s not be rude. The quality of commenters on this board is quite high, and there are a variety of styles and points of view even as the board typically stays on the set themes of the blog and each post. It’s a remarkable place in that regard. So let’s please keep the flaming and insults to a minumum. I enjoy your writing, style and posts most of the time, but even when I disagree, I wouldn’t give backhanded putdowns. And yeah, I never really got the Obsidian bashing. I don’t agree with him on everything, but he’s insightful and worth reading. GBFM is actually quite brilliantly funny, and if you don’t see that, then you need remedial humor lessons.
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yah no shit if after a divocre the man got alimony and state-funded pussy just like the women gets alimony and state funded biker/drummer cock after divorce (whichthe fan is forced to pay for at the ned of bernanke’s feminist police state gun point), then maybe men would initaite divorce lzozlzlz
we live in THE MOST FUCKED UP TIME in all WESTERN HISTORY.
search through the literature and herodotus and plato and even though tehy sometimes butthexed back then (in a polite and discreet way)they DIDN’T GLORIFY IT likethe neocons and call jesus a PIG FUCKER and reward secvre4tive tapers of butthex without the girl’s
s consent in the pages of the weeklys tandrad lzozlzlzlzlzl
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@xsplat-
Yeah, I said most of the time, did I not. My friend, this is just an embarrasingly foolish thing to post, especially on a site like this. (Unless yo meant it in some unknown ironic way.) In light of my above remarks, though, please take this in the best possible way. Heartbreak may be real, but it doesn’t mix with game very well. You seem to have lots of experience moving on, so I suspect you’ll recover promptly.
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I read somewhere that there will soon be more women in the labor force than men. If anything, this will cause marriage rates to fall since the women will have to support the man if she wants to get married.
I personally welcome the day of the gigalo.
However, I wonder if the brain-dead feminists welcome the day of the gigalo.
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@ comment_whatever, I think that is a valid point. Whether its getting child support, protecting their credit, or getting the assets distributed, the woman is the one that needs a change to the status quo more than the man, so it does make some sense that they would be the one pushing the process.
All I’m saying it, alimony is extremely rare these days, especially within the middle and lower classes, and most of these guys don’t have a whole lot of stuff for the women to be chasing after. In almost every case, whatever distribution of assets is disputed results in them being sold and the proceeds split.
Except for the young, childless 7, 8, and 9’s who are looking to upgrade to a better status, almost no women see divorce as a net gain for themselves, and if they could control everything, would not be getting divorced in the first place.
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maurice you will always get shit for your diplomat, conciliatory nature from more fiery personae– don’t even sweat it
i have always found xplat’s posts to be highly embarrassing and never moreso than since he oddly announced the “death” of his whatever it was and how some other whatevers were coming over to console him. bragging about being able to get tons of barely human foreign hookers on your dick because you are bwana and have 3 pennies to rub together and that you can get away with being all alpha at them because they barely have legal recourse in whatever scummy third world shithole you are in hardly qualifies as “Great Lessons in Game”
seeing thumbs up all around for the brilliant GBFM, so full of elan and joie de vive and thumbs down for his dour, boring, likely lying ass has been quite satisfying
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I was looking for some stats on divorce trends and found this page by Dr. Phil:
If you’re having trouble letting go:
* There is life after this marriage
As hard as it is to believe right now, one day this marriage will just be something you did once. You’ll go on and you’ll have what you create.
* Get out of denial
Ask yourself: Do you really want this marriage, or are you hanging onto it out of fear? If being alone is a scarier thought than staying in a broken marriage, you’re letting fear make your decisions. Are you mourning the loss of what your marriage was, or what you thought marriage would be?
Evidently he felt married women need yet more encouragement to divorce…
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diplomatic*
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hey you E ^^^^^
sure there might be more womenz in the workforce assmuncher but on case you ahven’t nbotcied, WOMENZ CREATE MORE DEBTS THAN MEN AND THEY CREATE DEBT AND WAR!!! LZOZLLZL AND GET THIS THE VAST MARJORITY OF PRON THE VAST VATS MAJORITY OF PORN IS PERFORMED BY WILLING WOMENZ MAKING A CHOICE TO PERFORM PORN JSUT AS THE VAST MAJORITY OF ABORTIONS IN FACT 100% OF ABORTIONS ARE WOMENZ CHOICES AND 2/3 to 3/4 OF DIVROCERCES ARE INTIATED BY WOMENZZ ZZ
this is why bernanke/goldman sahcs (rhymes ith tucker max) fund fiat feminsim program and rely on desouled, buthhexed owmenz to transfer welath from men as men build invent creater roads skjyscrapers transitors airplanes computers and womenz create porn and war and death killing killing 50,000,000 fetuses in that sacred room once known as the womb but now called the tomb of bernake doom. lzozlzllzl. omg sometimez i even surprise myself with my witty rhyems i guess that’s why i score so much titty and wakes up and says (man did i really just bang another ten my oom looks like a pig pen all these great book slying all over and the model lying naked on my bed she looks nice against the homer and shakespeare lzozllzz)
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@sidewinder
“But women who get divorced in their 30s or later, after kids, have every market incentive to stay with their husband, who’s market value is usually constant if not slightly improving.”
Many women believe they will be Demi Moore or Sara Jessica Parker…
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@Maurice
My friend, this is just an embarrasingly foolish thing to post, especially on a site like this.
You do realize he is mourning the death of his last LTR, not a breakup, right?
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TG,
No they don’t. And those few that actually look like Demi Moore think they look like a fat cow. Women are very hard on themselves once they start to see their beauty fading. I’m telling you, they do not want to get divorced. And that’s what Roissy’s linked article is saying over and over again: these women will let their men walk all over them so as to avoid divorce and loneliness. Don’t believe the paranoid bitter men in these comment threads. They don’t know what they’re talking about.
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@dana- Thanks for the kind words. I suppose there are costs to being the token nice dude on the board, but I’m long used to it by now. I too am really digging GBFM- his idees fixes hang together like a freeform collage, variations on a theme in which the sum is greater than the parts, and *always* funny as shit. The book cover one above literally made me laugh out loud. Not giggle or smile – guffaw.
I’ll defend xsplat’s posts though – he very often has very insightful and smart stuff to write. I’m not sure about the details of his personal life, but in cyberspace, they don’t really matter I suppose. That’s why the board is sort of a pure meritocracy – either what you write has value and makes sense, or it doesn’t. And he does, most of the time. I just wanted to call him on the needless diss, is all.
I haven’t voted on any of the thumbs-up/thumbs-down markers for the comments in the hope they’ll go away soon.
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maurice
you should remember one thing though–when two aggressively competitive people are fighting, defending one side to the other merely causes them to recalibrate their sites on you–that i didn’t attempt to maul you during the Great Obsidian Wars was a testament to my own sweet feminine restraint
lol
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the neocons are perpetually preparing for preemptive war, justifying the killing of innocent fetuses in wombs and innocent civilians on foreign shores lzozllzozzlzzozll and teh entire fiat-fed-funded feminist movement is all about preparing women for preemeptive war against men now and then luring tehm into marriage after being desouled by tucker maxes and prima noctase cockckckas in high school and college and then sent forth to tempt men and take tehir assets and transfer them to ebernaknke and all once upon a trime a man was the master of his home but todya bernanke and his police force and fiat funded feminists are teh master of your home your wife your kids lzozlzllzlzl
bring prima noctaes cockaets back!!!!
rnecoconservatism: why do jonah goldberg and charlotte allen and teh weekly standard hate on/ignore true heroes and classical marriage and men’s rights and shed love on Tucker Max who films butthex with girls without the girl’s consent? butthexx!! lozlzlzlzlzlz lzlz!! goldberg says we need more feminism & family killing! lzozl!
March 10, 2010 12:00 A.M.
Where Feminists Get It Right
Women civilize men. ’Nuff said.
The reason strikes me as fairly simple. Women civilize men. As a general rule, men will only be as civilized as female expectations and demands force them to be. “Liberate” men from those expectations, and Lord of the Flies logic kicks in. Liberate women from this barbarism, and male decency will soon follow.
article.nationalreview.com/427383/where-feminists-get-it-right/jonah-goldberg
hahahahah! what goldberg is saying that is if his wife didn’t lay down the line, he would be a beasty man alpha male, smacking women around, as that is in in true, deep, neocon nature. lozllz! he admits it! and then he projects it on teh entire world as neocons do to justify their pre-emptive, illegal wars! lzozll!
What jonah goldberg forgets to mention is that women committed over 50,000,000 abortions/murders (by their choice alone) since the fiat class’s Roe vs. Wade, as well as the fact that women originate over 2/3 of all divorces. This si why the fiat necons love women, as women serve their destructive quest for power.
This is because divorce and abortion are huge neocon profit centers, which also serve to dehumanize humanity, kill the family, grow the STATE, and make them all suck on the fiat teat that Jonah Goldberg et al dangle from The National Review. lozzllz!
How come Jonah never talks about this:
This one-page site has more links about the brutal tyranny that a man can be subjected to once he enters the legal contract of marriage, and even more so after he has children. What was once the bedrock of society, and a solemn tradition that benefited both men and women equally, has quietly mutated under the evil tinkering of feminists, divorce lawyers, and leftists, into a shockingly unequal arrangement, where the man is officially a second-class citizen who is subjected to a myriad of sadistic risks. As a result, the word ‘marriage’ should not even be used, given the totality of changes that have made the arrangement all but unrecognizable compared to its intended ideals. Suicide rates of men undergoing divorce run as high as 20%, and all of us know a man who either committed suicide, or admits seriously considering it during the dehumanization he faced even though he wanted to preserve the union. Needless to say, this is a violation of the US Constitution on many levels, and is incompatible with the values of any supposedly advanced democracy that prides itself on freedom and liberty. There is effectively a tyrannical leftist shadow state operating within US borders but entirely outside the US constitution, which can subject a man to horrors more worthy of North Korea than the US, even if he did not want out of the marriage, did not want to be separated from his children, and did not want to lose job. Any unsuspecting man can be sucked into this shadow state.
And this:
weddedabyss.wordpress.com
Before you take the plunge there are a few things about marriage that you need to be aware of. The institution of marriage as we know it is no more. It has undergone drastic changes in the last 50 years. What used to be a life long commitment, unbreakable barring the most severe circumstances, has been relegislated into something new entirely thanks to the lobbying efforts of radical feminists and the divorce industry. In trying to to make divorce “fail-safe” for homemaker / lower-earner spouses, the bad ones included, they have made marriage “unsafe” for virtually everyone else.
Marriage today is a temporary union of two individuals where the exit costs are highly asymmetrical. What does that mean? It means that upon the dissolution of the marriage, one spouse generally makes off like a bandit, while the other is pushed into a life of unending poverty, abridged civil rights, and being two paychecks away from arrears, contempt, and prison.
weddedabyss.wordpress.com
Why doesn’t this bother Jonah: “4. Decriminalization of Adultery – Adultery is no longer a crime. However the failure to pay alimony to an adulterous spouse is. Go figure.”
How come Jonah & his neocon elites never stick up for the common man, who, btw, is dying on foreign shores for their unconstitutional, undeclared foreign wars?
he fundamental thing that everyone is missing is that the neocons are exalting beta males such as tucker max as alpha males, while ignoring the true alphas they send to foreign shores to die in their wars.
charlotte,
please allow me to draw your attention to usmc Corporal Jason L. Dunham.
jasonsmemorial.org
“On April 14, 2004, 3 days after Easter Sunday, Corporal Dunham was manning a checkpoint in Karabilah, Iraq, when an insurgent leapt from his car and began choking Corporal Dunham. A scuffle ensued as two Marines approached to help. Reportedly, the last words from Corporal Dunham were, “No, No. Watch his hand.” Suddenly, the insurgent dropped a grenade. Corporal Dunham took off his Kevlar helmet, dropped to the ground, and covered the explosive as best he could.
The blast seriously wounded all 3 Marines. Eight days later, Corporal Jason L. Dunham died at Bethesda Naval Hospital from wounds he received in the incident. He was 22. ”
now the funny thing is that to the neocons the greater hero is Tucker Max, even though true heroes such as jason et al. are dying in the neocons’ war.
Now our foxy Ms. Allen could have used the precious space in the Weekly Standard to give a shout out to a true American hero–Corporal Jason L. Dunham.
But instead, she regurgitates tucker’s lies and corporate PR, as douchebaggery makes aging neocon’s ginas tingle, while true american heroism leaves them dry:
“Tucker Max, 33, six feet tall, extrovertedly good-looking, and usually photographed latched to a girl, a bottle of booze, or a cheeseburger, is an honors graduate (in three years) of the University of Chicago. He has a law degree from Duke University, whose admissions committee was so impressed with his academic record that it awarded him an academic scholarship. . . Max is famous as a blogger (tuckermax.com), and his website is replete with stories like the ones above, all involving graphically rendered bedroom exploits (if your definition of bedroom includes vans, offices, and the great outdoors), massive quantities of alcohol, and copious vomiting. He is the author of several books, including The Definitive Book of Pickup Lines (2001, out of print but selling for close to $200 on Amazon), the 2006 blockbuster I Hope They Serve Beer in Hell, which spent more than 100 weeks on the New York Times bestseller list, and the forthcoming Assholes Finish First. Beer in Hell, a dramatization of some of his website yarns, became an indie movie hit in college towns last fall. ”
Tucker lies about his height & success & films buttsex without the woman’s consent, and thus the weekly standard exalts him, while rejecting and ignoring all those true heroes jumping on grenades in their war.
quotabletuckermax.com/images/mugshot_height_assistance.jpg
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Getting hot in here. It’s easy to piss someone off without meaning to, and then the escalation is ugly. You guys should learn to appreciate each other’s strengths and areas of expertise (some of the folks here really are a waste of pixels but the best response to them is just ignoring them).
If we were all in a club together then yeah, fight night, the winner gets to walk off with anookie and SD.
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The divide in these threads is obvious. There is a large group of guys – probably the super-majority of Roissy readers – who want to run game to get married. Marriage is their goal, so they learn game.
Most of those guys have been left out of the dating market their entire lives. Having never been in a long-term relationship, they don’t understand the misery of being with the same woman for years.
It’s not merely the need for strange that makes a long-term relationship miserable. It’s the suffocation. The constant nagging. The never ending shit-tests. A woman will NEVER stop with the nagging and shit-tests.
Women expect their men to prove their worth every day. Being married is like being in sales: What have you done for me today?
There’s no escaping game. You’re going to need to run it if you want to live life as a man.
So why run it on one woman – a woman who is going to age, sad, and even as a 40-year-old, nag and shit-test you?
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yah no shit polymath
“You guys should learn to appreciate each other’s strengths and areas of expertise.”
when i walk in the room with my masive cockage i need 2 be recognized and respected not butthexed and negleted like a neocon on a womanz ass.
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I love maurice’s intelligence and wit. The complete distinguished gentleman. It’s a mistake to think he’s not a man to be reckoned with. Mistakes everyone makes with diplomats, whose minds race a mile a minute while they give that calculator’s smile…
I love xsplat’s writing, it’s honest-to-God chick porn on some occasions.
Men come in such amazingly varied flavours of hotness.
Though Doug surpasses them all and combines everything sexy from dominance to intelligence to a sense of adventure to passion.
Of course I don’t care what you think about why I think. It’s just part of love to declare it publicly, because you can’t suppress that tide of affection and it has to explode outwards, overspilling. Those who can’t stand it and are repulsed by it are reminded they can’t feel it: they decided it hurts too much and it’s too vulnerable to feel anymore. They’re saner than I ever want to be.
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Sidewinder,
You may be the only voice of reason on this board.
A lot of these dudes are bitter. Some felt as if life was so formulaic that all they had to do was get a good job and they’d have women galore. They are pissed that this is not the case.
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@dalrock- no, I had no idea. Sorry, xsplat. But I think I’m right in that that sort of grief and sentiment is misplaced on this board. Best kept private, I’d say.
@dana- yes, I remember that you and Obsidian were like oil and water, and brought out the worst in each other. Sweet feminine restraint, I’m sure, had nothing to do with it – you just like me. (Plus we have similar interests in politics and history, even if my views are quite a bit more moderate.) For some reason you never let your caustic brilliance loose on me, for which I ought to be grateful.
You’re right about putting myself between two people fighting, of course. And yet there’s value in having a voice of reason and conciliation. Some times it works, some times it doesn’t, but the community benefits. And this is a community I like and value, so I make the effort when I can. But for some reason the Obsidian Wars (is that what they are now? Passed into lore like the Punic Wars? shit, it was last year) were probably a bridge too far.
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Mike,
Your point seems to be that women who would make good wives are so rare that even with game most men have no chance of finding and keeping one.
But your last sentence
So why run it on one woman – a woman who is going to age, sad, and even as a 40-year-old, nag and shit-test you?
suggests that you actually don’t understand the things marriage has to offer that less permanent relationships do not. This blindness indicates that you personally would not be a good candidate for marriage, but you foolishly ignore reality if you generalize this conclusion to all men, or your example of a wife to all women.
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You guys have to understand something about Jonah Goldberg. He has a famous, powerful mom; he went to fucking Goucher College here in Baltimore I think the first year it went co-ed (from women’s college.) There were probably like a handful of guys in the entire school.
The poor guy’s been pussy-whipped his entire life.
This is not some fucking “neocon” plot. Have some fucking sympathy for an equalized, socialized beta.
He is absolutely correct, as far as his personal experience goes. He IS a natural alpha and a radically socialized beta who hasn’t taken the red pill yet.
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@Mike
I think you’re probably right. I’d love to see stats on the readership as far as who’s been in a long term relationship at all. That percentage alone could affirm what we’ve all been reading about all this time. I’d wager most here have never been in one, since most people are reading this after searching the internet for what the hell went wrong in their lives.
Poll!
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@polymath- someone already walked off with SD. didn’t you notice?
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Wow we devolved into a verbal orgy of self praise here. Time for all of you to get up on the bathroom sink and start singing abut it. Bet you can get daddy GBFM to film it to. 😉
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@PhillyBoy81
A lot of these dudes are bitter. Some felt as if life was so formulaic that all they had to do was get a good job and they’d have women galore. They are pissed that this is not the case.
Either that, or we just didn’t happen to pick up this month’s Cosmo yet.
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@heloise- thanks, my dear. good luck in all your upcoming exams.
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“You may be the only voice of reason on this board.
A lot of these dudes are bitter. Some felt as if life was so formulaic that all they had to do was get a good job and they’d have women galore. They are pissed that this is not the case.”
Uh, are you a bafoon?
Roissy is right that money will become less important since men will be making less.
Roissy is right that marriage rates are falling and will continue to fall.
Roissy is right that game will continue to be relevant.
As to your hate for game: I find it laughable.
Guys talk game strategies all the time among themselves. They may not even call it game but they say things like, “Hey man, why don’t you try this [insert strategy] on that cute girl sitting over at the end of the bar.”
Game is a just systematic approach to the pick up.
No different than dudes coming up with strategies among themselves at a bar/club/lounge.
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“vasafaxa
Wow we devolved into a verbal orgy of self praise here. Time for all of you to get up on the bathroom sink and start singing abut it. Bet you can get daddy GBFM to film it to. 😉 ”
lollzlzlz i love it when womenz walk into the room and stamp their little feet and goes lookz at me!!! lzozlzlzllzzzlzl
and she’s callin’ me daddy even though it’s big daddy.
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PhillyBoy81,
I agree with you about Sidewinder being a voice of reason. He writes some of the best comments on here.
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PhillyBoy81,
I agree with you about Sidewinder being a voice of reason. She writes some of the best comments on here, for a decocked, deballed, desouled, demasted, dedicked, butthexed betaomega who makes no fucking sense .lzozlzzl.
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@ Maurice
I agree, gbfm’s first comment was quite funny. it is too bad that he yet hasn’t written a second one.
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Dick measuring contest everywhere. Wit against wit, who can come out on top with his wordplay.
Something very creepy about this whole blogsphere thing. All these regulars recognizing each other, creating personas out of their typed words, shitting on each other, etc.
One big ass clique. Circle jerk and occasionally a female commentator throws in a compliment. Mutually virtual masturbation in which everyone’s ego is stroked.
Is this that much different from a 13th grade or porn stars fucking the shit out of each other at a party?
Thumbs down on this comment for sarcasm.
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Game Theory on you bitches
i’m out in a mixed group of new faces with my friend the other weekend in a new city, and there is one eligible girl for us to indulge with our charms. my friend and i are both bringing roughly the same value to the table, differences in style aside. he inserts a rather bold line into the conversation, which gets a positive response from the girl.
haha, he says! i am totally going to bang this girl tonight!
haha, i say! i invoke “prisoner’s dilemma”!
i explain: there are four outcomes tonight. we could go head to head to pursue a 100/0 payoff distribution (banging), both defer to a zero payoff, or actively wing for the other guy, which is sort of a 100/10 payoff strategy, seeing how this is my buddy and we’ll be doing this mischief regularly. call this ‘Cooperation with Interest’. the Game is afoot!
now, my friend has already declared his intention to bang the girl to me, removing one of the four outcomes. i tell him that it is always in my best interest to at least declare, so that if i do decide to wing for him, he will assign a value to my contribution, to be repaid in the future during another round of prisoner’s dilemma.
but what he doesn’t know is that i could be practicing ‘Disguised Defection’, since building him up to the girl keeps me in her periphery. i could at any point opt to go for the swoop myself and transfer the buying temperature. until i do so, i will get the ‘Pavlovian’ positive feedback.
the outcome of this story was a bit lame – the girl reveals that she is on her period and thus does not want to bang anyone. because we are both just passing through, there is no future payoff to pursue. however, due to our perceived collusion, at least in being on the same page about the dynamic, we end with a payoff of 10/10, where we will be friendly during future encounters… ‘Contrite Tit for Tat’ long term strategy.
i have now entered this terminology into our friends’ lexicon. the difference between rating a girl as a 6, 7, or 8 out of 10 has been qualified as “no, i would not challenge you to prisoner’s dilemma for her”. this transparency should prove useful during future endeavors, as wingmanship for the pursuit marginal girls increases in pursuit of that 10/100 payoff.
i created value. fiat bankers get the dick!
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@Mike
The divide in these threads is obvious. There is a large group of guys – probably the super-majority of Roissy readers – who want to run game to get married. Marriage is their goal, so they learn game.
FYI, you may have me on the wrong side her. I’ve posted on another thread how happy I am in my 15 year and counting marriage.
A woman will NEVER stop with the nagging and shit-tests.
Women expect their men to prove their worth every day. Being married is like being in sales: What have you done for me today?
While I don’t think it is quite so black and white, I do think this is an excellent point. It brings to mind the caption on pic of the hot woman on Roissy’s post titled Settling. i will shit test you until the day you die.
To Roissy the shit tests are an amusing challenge, and essentially an opportunity to gain leverage as a PUA. They are fun because he enjoys the challenge of each conquest. Once it stops being fun he simply moves on.
What I haven’t seen discussed is the cost of constant shit testing from the woman’s perspective. I understand from Roissy that they typically do this unconsciously, due to evolutionary psychology. I’ve seen a good explanation that this could not only help ferret out the poser alphas, but being able to manage childishness demonstrates good dad material as well. This all makes sense to me.
But in a marriage this causes everything to go to hell. Even if you know game, the constant shit tests will get extremely tedious. It isn’t that they are difficult, but that they are boring. More importantly, for a married woman there is no positive outcome to a shit test. At best her husband knows enough game to respond as she (unbeknown to her) really wants. But from reading this blog, I have yet to see a suggested shit test response which doesn’t hurt the woman in some way or another.
My in laws have been married for 40 years, and my mother in law still plays really stupid shit tests on my father in law. It makes them both much less happy than they would otherwise be. I’m closer to them than my own parents, and I really hate to see this.
What I disagree with is the idea that women can’t change this cycle. My wife figured out many years ago that she was pulling this kind of stuff. She said it feels like she is betraying the sisterhood, but she has found she is so much happier when she stops herself from acting on the impulse. Early in our marriage she would shit test me mercilessly. Without really knowing what I was doing I responded with aloof game; when she was bitchy I’d go hunting/fishing, etc. If a day didn’t fix the problem, I’d go camp on the prairie or in the mountains for the weekend, and find something to do out of the house in the evenings. Eventually she came back around and I’d spend more time with her until she started ramping it back up. Rinse, lather, repeat, until eventually she figured it out.
Even though this stuff is unconscious and instinctive it doesn’t mean women can’t control it. This whole blog is basically dedicated to identifying situations where beta instinct subconsciously would lead you astray and pointing out what the right course of action is. If men can do it, so can women.
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“One big ass clique. Circle jerk and occasionally a female commentator throws in a compliment. Mutually virtual masturbation in which everyone’s ego is stroked.”
No, no. There are genuine haters in the house too.
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Cannon,
You stole your anecdote directly out of that gay movie A Beautiful Mind.
And of course the real Nash liked fucking boys in bathrooms, not women.
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As falling rates of marriage soak up fewer young single women, men will have more unencumbered pussy to plunder.
It’s not like married women are completely unavailable. But, given the violence that can unfold in cuckolded men it is a risky lifestyle. Seducing a married woman thus takes skill and balls (and, needless to say, a lack of bad conscience).
Thus, having more single women around actually works against the mega harems that the highest status men accrue. It becomes easier for lesser men to do the same.
The only people who will suffer are women over 35. The constant influx of younger women into the mating market is competition too much. If I were to name a top investment given this direction we are headed as society, I’d say pet shops. Dogs will be the new husband.
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More importantly, for a married woman there is no positive outcome to a shit test.
Perfect.
I used game to save my marriage, and then asked: Why save it?
A married man’s prize for winning the shit-test contest is…more shit!
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“You stole your anecdote directly out of that gay movie A Beautiful Mind.”
did i really? well, no idea’s original.
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@dalrock- excellent comment. not all wives mercilessly shit-test, though. mine does, inasmuch as it can be described that way, from a position of submission. but it does get tedious to be on your toes all the time. i suppose your comment can be viewed as an argument for more wives and girlfriends to read about Game and evo-psych, and to understand their own natures a little better.
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I was at an industry event and noticed one guy doing what Mystery advises against: looking “tough” or “hard” in a room where all other guys, whether alpha or beta, were friendly and conversational.
At a mingling event later on I came up to talk to him because I was interested in the line of business he represents, and he went off with AMOG bullshit. Just the two of us talking, no chicks nearby. F-that, I thought, and responded with aloof friendlines, then bailed on him because I wasn’t in the mood for douchebaggery.
Later I saw him talking to girls, and he seemed to have the rudiments of Game. Lesser alpha is how I pegged him. Unnecessarily alienates other guys. You agree?
Talk to guys because you’re a social being. Not talking to guys and socializing with them just makes you a dick.
You might get laid, but there’s a difference between playing an Alpha asshole and actually being an asshole.
And you’ll get laid better if you’re not an actual asshole.
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@Sidewinder
Reason 1 – agree somewhat. Money will stop being a bright line requirement for girls because they will generally be making more money and overall prospects for high-income employment are waning across the board. But because of that, those men who maintain traditionally high-incomes and white collar jobs will see an increase in their status. They will become more rare. So blue collar guys will get shots at girls they might not have had a chance with before, but those fortunate guys holding on to high-income employment will see their status points go up significantly.
I buy this. Already happening. But this is just for LTRs and dating. For gaming girls, it’s absolutely irrelevant.
Reason 2 – disagree. Girls want to get married, and they always will. And I know this will upset many on here, but the reason women are filing for divorce 66% of the time is due to the man’s marital misconduct, or his general blase attitude towards getting the paperwork filed. The article Roissy links to points out over and over again how married women really want it to work out, even to the point of making themselves look like total fools. And Roissy’s excellent work on dating market value establishes why 30 something women NEED their marriages to work out with husband #1. I know there are exceptions to the rule, and there are problems with the laws as they are on the books in many states, but if marriage is going to be saved in this country, it will be saved by men stepping up, fighting temptation, and following through on their commitment. The women are waiting (and wishing with all their diminishing market-value hearts) for men to step up and lead on this.
WTF?
Are you serious? What the hell is this?
As a trend, you’re exactly dead wrong. This might be true in some cases, but there’s good data that shows this to be absolutely false. Go here.
http://dontmarry.wordpress.com/2009/03/24/articles-by-f-roger-devlin/
Article: Rotating Polyandry – And Its Enforcers
This is a well-written summary of why women just can’t be trusted. Women can learn 1) ethics 2) decency 3) How to restrain their “feelings” and think about someone other than themselves. Then men can consider it.
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Regarding thugs and so-called “immorality” see this scene from “Goodfellas”.
Although Henry Hill was a major douche in other aspects, he did not wuss out when his girlfriend was assaulted by another male. In this narrow sense he did the “right” thing. Given female solipsism this may be the ultimate and only measure a female applies to a man – will he pistol-whip someone who molested me? The new testament standard for a husband is that a husband should be willing to die for his wife. Henry Hill in this scene showed absolutely no hesitation in defending his woman’s honor. She witnessed first-hand that Henry would defend her to the point of death if need be. This may be thuggish, but it seems to be thuggishness that the new testament approves of.
The problem with the current milieu is the omnipresence of the police and civil suits means that your average joe risks an awful lot when he practices a little self-help in defending the honor of a women. Note the asymmetry between your average douche insulting the woman of high-achiever – the high achiever risks jail time and a civil suit because the police and courts won’t practice “the douche got what was coming to him” approach. In other words, the system has effectively emasculated law-abiding men by denying them the remedy of self-help, meaning that law-abiding men will always look wimpy in comparison to true thugs who don’t care about jail time.
Further, how many men are trained in the martial virtues to the point that they are truly dangerous to others men? If one of things women are looking for is physical security, why don’t more of us pursue training in the martial virtues? The thugs wouldn’t seem so thuggish if overnight 40% of the betas suddenly became a real threat through knowledge of martial arts and firearms.
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Laura–
Rubbish.
He’s deeply imbibed feminist/chivalric propaganda.
Instead he says what most women want to hear, and are used to hearing outside of a few places like here. Which are growing.
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dude that movie goodfellas is like 25 years old at least so liek teh chcik he was defending didn’t have loads of butthex with tucker maxes in college andthe neocons hadn’t yet strated their butthexing analsexing bankrupting debaucheching desecrating campaign lzozlzl and she still had some honor left
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@Bullshitter
This is absolute, total crap. If used with women in general, it will get you a disappointed “It’s just not there any more.”
Garbage. I was married. I know. I had it: “You know, it’s just not there any more.” Next BF was an alpha asshole.
I learned awfully fast. Anyway, the joke was totally on her.
Within 6 months, I was banging hotter and younger women. Now she’s still single.
But this is utter garbage. Do this and most women will start to tingle for someone else. You’ll be their Best Friend.
I’d rather be the guy they want to fuck.
Pfft, you’re wrong Roissy. Take it from a ‘goddess’:
Miranda Kerr has offered some inside tips to men on how to keep the fire burning in their love life.
The Aussie supermodel says guys should at all times be themselves and pay attention to their partner’s needs in their quest for romantic harmony.
Staying healthy, showing affection and a willingness to pamper are also attractive qualities in the eyes of the fairer sex, she says.
But it’s the little things that apparently mean the most.
“In my experience, it is the random small gestures that I find the most romantic,” she told bloke’s lifestyle website AskMen.com.
“It could be something as simple as making me a cup of tea or being given a foot massage while we are watching a movie at home after a long day at work.
“If more men made an effort to do these little things for their partner throughout their everyday life they would be guaranteed to have a more romantic relationship.”
Kerr revealed her top 10 romance tips to readers of AskMen.com, who voted her most desirable Australian woman in the world. They are:
10. Buy the right size
9. Listen to her
8. Connect with her
7. Know what you want
6. Don’t be afraid to show her love
5. Tell her she is beautiful and romance her
4. Get a baby sitter
3. Be healthy
2. Pamper her
1. Treat her like a goddess
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@GBFM: well maybe the wimmnz act the way they do in part because no man (starting with their fathers) think they have any virtue to defend and instead are home watching Tucker Max defllower someone else’s daughter. Heck, Hugh Hefner had the grandmothers of the threesome he was sleeping with over for a barbecue. Where were the fathers? Why didn’t they pound the snot out of Hef?
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ahappinessexperiment,
that Nash scene is a bit different than my angle. personally, i don’t consider the sexual marketplace to be zero-sum, unlike some commenters. maybe for the hottest and most desirable babes, but not for the marginal girls. otherwise, no girl would ever say she felt sexually frustrated.
Nash wanted to pair everyone off to create the greatest utility (four average chicks and a hot blonde with his group of five). his prisoner’s dilemma is impure because upon appearance of collusion, everyone will still call bluff to seek out their greatest return (the hot blonde), thinking the rest are content to settle. Nash’s group will be right back where they started, slap-fighting for the blonde.
my “anecdote” suggests a long-term frame that mirrors the foreign policies of sovereign nations. say my friend has a higher value than i do; my winging might only yield a 100/5 payoff because i posed little threat to swoop in the first place. i would need to do more work to curry his favor for future dilemmas. still, 100/5 beats 100/0, and the key differentiation is the future considerations. Nash’s timeline was finite while mine is infinite.
regardless, i studied this shit in school, so i’m not exactly fishing for a nobel prize here. if i’ve translated something that was in a “gay movie” to make it commutable to my Really Cool Friends, i’ve still created value. now pay me in precious metals, none of this fiat shit!
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Sidewinder—
I never said it was premeditated very often, and neither has Roissy. That’s a red herring. I don’t think I’ve seen anyone here say that, certainly not who has much respect from fellow commenters
At most, clear golddigger types feel that divorcing a prosperous or wealthy man will be a very viable financial option if things don’t work out – though no doubt there are rare exceptions who plot from the get go. The great majority of women aren’t primarily golddiggers before marrying, though financial security from a man is often part of what women want even today. Once they get it they feel entitled to it or much of it forever, no matter what they do, even if they leave him for no compelling reason. Well, they always have some excuse for why the marriage “just didn’t work” that primarily blames him. “Mental abuse” is coming on strong today, often with vague hints of “sometimes even worse”. (American men have been trained to not primarily fault their wives unless the wives behavior was egregrious and even then they’ve been trained to make all kinds of excuses for her such as her having supposedly partly exculpating psychological issues. No such allowance is made for men usually; instead they’re rarely excused at all for any weakness, post divorce. )
That it often happens was lobbied for by feminists. Who else do you think got the idea of marriage as an equal financial partnership, no matter how rich and accomplished the man is or how little she is, widely and now more or less universally adopted through the US legal system beginning in the 70s? That never used to be the law before that.
You’re absolutely wrong about alimony. It’s for life if the marriage lasts 10 years in California and New Jersey, and similarly or takes less long in Mass and other places. Otherwise it’s for half the length of the marriage in California and many other places, though some states (not California or Mass) will only award it if the income differential is large or the woman hasn’t been working even though that’s always her own choice, and she was able to live entirely off her husband while she wasn’t.
No I’m talking about most divorces when the woman is in her 30s or even earlier 40s, and does have kids. See Braverman’s work, or the Michelle Langely book I citied above. You’ve deeply imbibed feminist memes and entertainment media stereotypes. The kinds of brief marriages when both are young and without children aren’t something I’m particularly concerned about or talk about except to say that’s different. There’s often not much more effect in that case than breaking up after living together in that case, unless he makes oodles of money. I don’t think people in their twenties without kids should particularly avoid divorce if it falls way short of expectations.
It’s true that women will rarely end up doing financially better post divorce while still single, though if she hasn’t been working she might, with his child support=also alimony and getting the house. She might remarry up financially as well. As for her remarriage prospects, most men including strong earning professional types have swallowed the feminist meme that its wrong and inherently unstable for them to marry a much younger woman, so older divorced guys do often go for women in their 30s and 40s about their own age. Certainly that’s what she’s likely to think she has a good shot at when contemplating divorce. As well for the divorced guy she won’t have the danger of his having to pay her more child support down the road if it doesn’t work out. What is true is that she will often do better than her ex husband, largely on his back, while she’s giving him nothing in return. Whereas if she’s not strongly earning it herself or remarrying it, she should clearly be doing much worse financially when she’s no longer doing anything for her ex in return.
I didn’t say that women get divorced in most cases to cash in on his money (unless he’s rich), though the fact that she’ll get so much of it and the kids which he’ll have to pay for along with stealth alimony to her embedded in 90s jacked way up “child support” in American divorce 2.0, makes divorcing a far easier decision for her.
Instead I said most divorce occurs in America today because wives have grown unexcited by their husbands and allow themselves to be irritated by them, and want to search for a new romantic love interest. Most of the time when a woman leaves her husband “due to his cheating” in fact it’s really an excuse. It makes her feel fully justified these days – but never used to before feminism (in this case going back to first wave feminism, and its agitation on how intrinsically evil and deeply violative of marriage any male cheating at all is). Men rarely want to leave their wives because the man has an affair and falls in love, and that won’t be a reason for most men to stop wanting sex with her either. Most men are polygamous by nature. It happens but it’s a small risk for her when he’s got young kids at home.
If she cheats in contrast, she’s likely to be the one who ends the marriage, or else she refuses to stop with the man in question and stops much or any warm romantic affection and sexing of her husband since she’s hypergamous not polygamous, pretty much forcing him to file for divorce.
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While I don’t think it is quite so black and white, I do think this is an excellent point. It brings to mind the caption on pic of the hot woman on Roissy’s post titled Settling. i will shit test you until the day you die.
This is true…
To Roissy the shit tests are an amusing challenge, and essentially an opportunity to gain leverage as a PUA.
…and for the married man, this is certainly true in gaining leverage as a husband.
Also, the more you effortlessly pass shit tests, the less your wife is likely to give ’em to you.
On a related note, if you are not a completely routine oriented person, and are spontaneous and unpredictable at times, she will not shit test as much either.
The more predictable and routine you are as a husband, the more shit tests she will throw at you. In some ways, it’s her way of giving herself the emotional roller coaster ride that she craves – by baiting you with shit tests. She’s doing something…ANYTHING to break the monotony of predictable routine that drives her crazy.
One final thought…once you no longer fail shit tests, and have established a default mode of dealing with them (the most effective being agree and amplify to the point of absurdity), you can also start employing the easiest shit test response there is: ignore it completely or change the subject without missing a beat.
I used game to save my marriage, and then asked: Why save it?
A married man’s prize for winning the shit-test contest is…more shit!
If you got children, the prize for winning the shit-test contest is a happy household to raise your kids in….which should be the only reason you get married in this day and age.
A man in charge of his home, and not afraid of his wife’s shit tests or emotional state, will have a wife and mother to his children that makes his home a place he can’t wait to come home to.
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“Dave
@GBFM: well maybe the wimmnz act the way they do in part because no man (starting with their fathers) think they have any virtue to defend and instead are home watching Tucker Max defllower someone else’s daughter. Heck, Hugh Hefner had the grandmothers of the threesome he was sleeping with over for a barbecue. Where were the fathers? Why didn’t they pound the snot out of Hef?”
yah totally dave
men create morlaity and religion
necons tear it all down and exalt butthexing and wire fiat dollars to womenz in feminst studies departments 2 destory morality lzozlzlzo omg to kill morality dead lzozlzlzlz
men create religion and honor and truth and beauty
necon women tell women to lust after vampires and werewolves and tucker maxth butthexers lzozlzlzl and dontya know that tucker max’s is next book is being published by neoocn women headed simon and schuster and necon charlotte allen dutifully repeats tucker max’s fiat lies about his height in the weekly standard and the little necon bernankes nad jonah goldbergs clap their hands and celebereate the butthexing of womenz as it makesth them better transferrers of welath to the neconos banks and by desouling womez with premarital neocnned financed butthex it is easire 2 get them to spy on tehir husnbands and turn on tehir husbands and slut up their little girls and make them dance to sexy tunes before they even have a chance at childhood and womez are excellent at killig fifty million aborted fetuses exclltent killing mahcines deconstructing machines debauching machines and so the neocn publishig houses working for teh fed and goldman sax which rhymes with tucker max publish and promote secretive tapersz of butthex without the girl’s consent thsuly killing teh soul who will blame it all on good men and teh patriarchy and teh neconths will clap clap clap as they bankrupt america and europe and jonah goldberg gest more pizztha to sytuff his cherubic face while alphas are sent to die on foreign shores in foreign wars and fatherhood is killed dead and laid 2 rest alongside the 50,000,000 aborted fetuses all killed by WOMN’S CHOICE.
zlolzozl
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@vasafraxa
What she means is that she’s not feeling it anymore for her beta husband, and feels entitled to go out and find a replacement man, or a period of a series of them, particularly if she’ll be well fixed post the divorce, with the child support, house, and more than half his money. Most men don’t feel entitiled to replace their wives.
– – – –
I’m curious as to your actual experience with this. You speak like you have absolute authority on the matter. Any wide surveys of women, any actual data here, even anecdotal or are you just hypothesizing?
Want experience?
I have experience. It was exactly as scripted. And the better a husband I was, warm, supportive, understanding, looking after myself, bonding, intimacy, being the best friend and the ideal lover – the more she wanted to go. Next BF? A total dick. Next BF? Same. Cock carousel Round 2. Give me the Assholes.
I was shocked and disgusted and then I realized, …
I was wrong. She wasn’t who I thought she was. She was a narcissistic, dreamy idealizing slut. I should have known.
She’s now single and bitter, complaining about how ex husband wasn’t doing it for her, and the men she meets are assholes. But she sees that now I’m in and out of relationships with hotter and younger women, while men date her and dump her and she has to resort to looking for older and less interesting guys who might – maybe – grace her with a wedding ring if she’s nice.
“Look, men are assholes!”, she says to friends; Even her ex husband, who was loyal and Super Beta to a fault (literally), but has younger and more attractive GFs now. He’s an asshole too, see, he went off and found better women.
WTF. She can write this off to the behaviour of the men she dates. She doesn’t see the fatal narcissism of it all.
Never mind that I was loyal and kept it in my pants while I was married.
Other men I know have similar stories, dating women or not.
Please excuse my language, it’s not personal, and not directed just at you, but:
Fuck off.
Women are absurdly delusional. Call it residual bitterness, which it is, but I’ve also dated more since divorce than most men in their lives. I see exactly, precisely the same BS.
I’ve pounded women and heard them scream while their husbands were at work being good and nice and loyal.
I have *NO* illusions about female moral superiority or even comparability. I now know exactly how they should, want to and are best appreciated. Don’t get me wrong, I love them for it.
I used to think women were angelic. I was angry when they turned out to be other than advertised.
I just know the animal now. They’re perfectly good as the animal they are. I just wish I knew what they were before I got married.
Michelle Langley’s book summarizes it nicely.
http://www.womensinfidelity.com/
And it’s about time.
I swear: Men who date in Europe or Asia know it: North American women are less attractive, are whores and are duplicitous and narcissistic. And self-righteous.
I’ll fuck them all, hang out with them, have engaging conversations and appreciate their minds. But marry them?
Advice to all young men: marry them at your peril. Start moving assets offshore (I was lucky, but I could have been screwed). Always keep something on the side; your wife’s loyalty over time is a delusion, even if she’s loyal now.
UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES trust that your good behaviour will get you anything.
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@Sidewinder
No they don’t. And those few that actually look like Demi Moore think they look like a fat cow. Women are very hard on themselves once they start to see their beauty fading. I’m telling you, they do not want to get divorced. And that’s what Roissy’s linked article is saying over and over again: these women will let their men walk all over them so as to avoid divorce and loneliness. Don’t believe the paranoid bitter men in these comment threads. They don’t know what they’re talking about.
Hm, … wel, some of us may be paranoid and bitter. But there’s also another possibility.
We know what we’re talking about. Because it happened to us. Or, … we know what we’re talking about, because it happened to us, and we see it from the other side.
Please. Believe what you want. But you’re deluding yourself.
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@GBFM: Now go home and git you effin shinebox (When you have taken thuggishness too far and get some of it on your shoes and later in the back of the head):
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The way you look at women often matters just as much as how you approach them. If anything, it is a chicken-and-egg relationship.
http://dissention.wordpress.com/2010/05/21/pussy-is-fungible/
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@Mike
The divide in these threads is obvious. There is a large group of guys – probably the super-majority of Roissy readers – who want to run game to get married. Marriage is their goal, so they learn game.
This is pretty obvious. I agree.
Most of those guys have been left out of the dating market their entire lives. Having never been in a long-term relationship, they don’t understand the misery of being with the same woman for years.
May be true. I know that once you’ve done it (half a decade for me), and endured the endless shit tests, and failed many, and then had her walk out and date a man who makes a completely worthless husband (and not as great a lover, shockingly, you often learn), and then presumes to blame you for being just a friend and not the tingly love of her life–
Well, once that happens, you need an explanation. And then you start to realize, … not all is as you thought.
You unmarried guys who just want a wife: THINK HARD. Learn game to get laid, sure, but please, for your own mental health, don’t get married. Or at least know that you have to spend the rest of your life gaming your wife.
It’s not merely the need for strange that makes a long-term relationship miserable. It’s the suffocation. The constant nagging. The never ending shit-tests. A woman will NEVER stop with the nagging and shit-tests.
Women expect their men to prove their worth every day. Being married is like being in sales: What have you done for me today?
Fuck, is this true.
There’s no escaping game. You’re going to need to run it if you want to live life as a man.
So why run it on one woman – a woman who is going to age, sad, and even as a 40-year-old, nag and shit-test you?
Mike, if only men learned this before their early 30’s.
At the age of 60 she’ll still be shit-testing you.
The only way to proceed: Take the right attitude. Their opinions and expressed feelings are worth nothing. Not even to them.
They’re sexually attracted to men who don’t give a shit about them. That’s it.
Any woman who complains about men with this kind of attitude, take it up with management.
But I know these are the men you want to fuck.
And I’d rather be one of those guys, thanks much.
You men looking or wives: Consider being one of them, too.
(Women: No dudes around who want to marry you? How sad for you. Stop engineering the situation and live up to some of the BS you spout all the time).
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One pattern of behavior concerning divorce that I have seen over and over again in my life, is a wife looking for new man while still married to her old man. This is why I have no problem believing current divorce statistics. It happened to me, it happened to my boss, it is currently happening to several of my friends.
2/3’s of all divorces are initiated by women. Therefore, it is easy to assume that these women knew about the pending divorce before their husbands did. And using this amazing thing called foresight, these women have the gall to pursue a replacement man while enjoying the security their husband’s provide for them in a stable marriage (at least stable in the mind of the poor AFC husband).
Men cheat. Women betray. Are there exceptions? Of course there are. But, one cannot ignore 66%! The statistics jump off the page and glare at you as if angry that you noticed that everything that you thought you knew about love and marriage was wrong. Hey, stupid, women are the first to want marriange and the first to want divorce! And, they’ll take your kids along with your money. Thank you very fucking much!
As I have been happily divorced for seven years, I am often approached for advice by my married brethren. And the advice I give is almost always the same when they tell me that their wife doesn’t want sex anymore, or she is hanging out with new friends and coming home at odd hours. Kick her ass to the curb! Engage in a pre-emptive strike and file for divorce first! And, watch her face when she is served with the papers. The only way to win a war is to stay on the offensive. Defensive war is for losers. Shock and awe the bitch by reclaiming the alpha side of you that she has so patiently shit-tested and nagged to death for years! Few guys take my advice, but when they do the result is always the same: suddenly the wife has a change of heart and wants to save the marriage.
Men aren’t trained for this kind of thinking about women. We are not told that women can be very dangerous to your emotional, financial, and physical health. However, women are sure as hell trained from an early age to be very aware of the dangers of men. One of my co-workers told me a month ago that his wife was cheating on him. He admitted that he didn’t know what to do. Understandbly, he is worried about how this will affect his young son. I asked him what she would do if she found out that he was cheating on her. He replied, “Well, she would leave me.” There’s your answer!
Flip the script, install dread, and fucking walk away!
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Money will always be important because it is a proxy for intelligence and social status. Rich guys might not be as much fun in the sack but they have smart children.
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A woman will NEVER stop with the nagging and shit-tests.
Shit tests? No. Those never end. That’s part of her biological hard wiring. May as well get mad at the sun for rising.
Now the nagging is a different story. That never ends ONLY IF YOU tolerate and allow it.
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Apologies to all
I may come across as bitter and I drone. I apologize. I just can’t stomach the hypocrisy and willful blindness of the women who read someone like Roissy – direct and comfort-shattering though he may be – and still try to defend stereotypes about women that are, in the end, absolutely meaningless.
Any of the men who learn game read this sort of thing and laugh to themselves. They know none of the chivalric-feminist garbage is even remotely true for a second, because they’re sleeping with the feminists who claim to like chivalry.
What’s more sad are the Betas that think that if they just get a little something their dream wife will come along. You want to grab them and scream into their ears, “Dude, Wake UP”.
You don’t need to have contempt for women, like BGFM sings so well in modern LOLZ verse.
Just have contempt for how women see themselves. When they say they want something or they’re like X or Y, you can safely completely ignore them.
Appreciate them for what they are, and they’re awesome.
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@Gorbachev: Remember the current situation is not the norm. Women act the way they do in marriage because they’re the ones with the options. The lawyers/social workers really gamed the system for their own selfish interests. If the system rewarded women for staying in a marriage instead of rewarding them for leaving a marriage a lot of the shrewish behavior would be reduced (but not disappear – it will always be part of the feminine nature).
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Gorby, good stuff, to which I can profoundly relate. You should have your own blog.
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@Dave from Hawaii
Shit tests? No. Those never end. That’s part of her biological hard wiring.
Aren’t most non natural PUAs hard wired to be Beta? And don’t they learn to act against this wiring?
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Gorby,
You didn’t sound bitter to me, lolozzzz…
But, seriously, women are totally awesome in their natural delustional state. People would be a lot happier if they releazed what people are instead of what they wish them to be. Over the last two or three generations the divorce rate has gone up and children being raised in broken homes has gone up. Cause and effect are a motherfucker. The pill was invented and abortion legalized, women work outside the home and delay procreation for soul sucking careers, and the guvment subsidizes single mothers with various welfare schemes. Birth rates and marriage rates plummet. Cause and effect are a motherfucker.
Dave from Hawaii, your advice helped my little brother’s marriage. He has two sons that I hoped are raised in an intact family. Thank you very much…
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Cheers, builder.
My only point here is that some of these hard won, bitter experiences are definitely true regarding the state of women today and the institution of marriage…
…but they don’t happen in a vacuum.
Yes, your wife can turn into that nagging, bitter shrew – but that is also partly due to her reaction to how you yourself are acting.
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@Dave
@Gorbachev: Remember the current situation is not the norm. Women act the way they do in marriage because they’re the ones with the options. The lawyers/social workers really gamed the system for their own selfish interests. If the system rewarded women for staying in a marriage instead of rewarding them for leaving a marriage a lot of the shrewish behavior would be reduced (but not disappear – it will always be part of the feminine nature).
I buy this. A lot of the guys I know who were dumped or left, or are about to be, experienced it because the legal system actively encourages it. As a man, you’re totally on the defensive when divorce happens. Some of the reasons for divorce are so thin – “I no longer feel excited by you”. Like every day. Dear God, was marriage supposed to be exciting like a romance novel every day? Puhlease.
Feminism – maybe from socially positive motives in the beginning – has effectively destroyed the family unit in the West. Popular culture denies it. Some feminists proclaim this a kind of victory. It’s a victory for alpha females, but for society as a whole, it’s a disaster. Good for my sex life, though.
It’s just starting in my other stomping ground (Korea), and it’s having exactly the same effects (divorce is now higher there than here). But this is also a country where extramarital affairs are actually illegal: hillarious escapades where spouses try to catch the significant other in the act – chase scenes like out of movies, serious bedroom comedy. BTW, there, the cheating partner – male or female – loses EVERYTHING. Kapow.
A Korean woman who cheats is basically publicly outed and ostracized as a whore. Of course, this doesn’t stop them from having sex with foreigners (ahem).
I was lucky, insanely lucky: My wife really wanted to have kids, and when she got bored with me, she needed to find a new guy right away (it didn’t happen; she’s still single, 35, no kids, BFs who hang around for 3-4 months and then leave, in the two cases I know for women 24-28 years old).
BUT: in my case, I was careful.
I offered to fix the relationship, and my behaviour was impeccable at all times. I also had allies: her family loved me. Her mother thought she was retarded and insane to get a divorce, and dreaming storybook dreams in technicolour.
So I got to walk away with the house (albeit with only half the equity), no alimony (she worked) and most of the friends.
Some of the guys I know weren’t so lucky. One was cleaned out, and *she* cheated on him repeatedly. He’s since reformed and, again, with some game, is doing well.
Roissy avoided it, and is glib and all superior about it, which annoys me. Not all of us were smart at the beginning.
It’s not just bitterness (though it’s there), but I say it over and over:
North American marriage is dead. It’s a Bill Of Goods: Any man who aspires to marry any of these “ladies” is a self-deluded fool. You will learn, way too late.
For the Western women who read this:
Dig deep. Look at what your mothers and the legal profession have wrought. They ruined it for you. The environment for marriage is poisonous. It’s a nuclear holocaust for marriage for men. Any man who does it is a complete retard.
All those single bitter scary NYC DC LA Chicago SF SD Miami women who fuck the hot dudes and complain about the lack of men,…
Are not-breeding themselves into oblivion. No man, no man, no man anywhere will ever satisfy you and marriage for you is dead dead dead no mater how many illusions you try to feed yourself. Sex and the City is a lie and it’s creating scary cougars.
Men, if you marry any of these women, learn serious game or prepare for pain.
Every excuse you give yourself (I’m hopeful/not a bitter divorced guy / not an asshole / male feminist / insert BS here) is brainwashing and delusion. More and more men know this.
And once you learn game, … WTF, why bother marrying any of them?
Feminism divorced their females’ sexuality from their moral impulse. Feminism! Be Free!
Upshot: I’m free to have almost as much sex as I want. I *Love* feminism.
And in 10 years, I’ll still be able to marry a hot woman 10-15 years younger than me if I want to. I just might. On my terms, next time. And the women my age will be unhappily single. I won’t be happy about it (part of my might be). But I wont’ cry for them.
The Hispanic/Immigrant/Asian/ChristianRight/MiddleAmerica segment of the population is having families and babies, and will outbreed the rest of us.
The educated elites of Western civilization are absolutely committing population suicide. Thank Feminism.
In 40 years, we’re going to regret it.
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Keep up the good work, Dave. I visit your blog from time to time, and while I can’t always follow you on some of your more conspiratorial themes (although I too wonder about the physiological effects of food additives especially high fructose corn syrup), we do see eye to eye on practically everything else.
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“The pill was invented and abortion legalized”
I’ve discovered something that leads me to believe that where we are today cannot be soley ascribed to medical and social innovations of the 60s.
http://www.brickhaus.com/amoore/magazine/house.html
Behold:
“Not only would electricity benefit the housewife by easing her work load and solving her servant problem, it would do so in a safe and healthy manner. This was another argument posed to increase the appeal of electricity to housewives. For example, a 1927 EDA poster was carefully composed to communicate this exact message. Bright white and rising triumphantly in the center of a dense black background is an athletic figure holding a globe in its raised right hand. ”
So at the latest it started with mass electrification in the mid-1920s.
Technology leads to radical feminism.
What a conundrum!
Mr. Lzolzls dreams of a paleocontopia which cannot happen because we’d have to go backward technologically to achieve the social effects.
That’s all good for entertainment and everything, but no-one in their right mind would believe it’s possible.
My suggestion is much more pragmatic but ultimately more painful.
Revisit the entire concept of the US.
Go back to something resembling the Articles of Confederation arrangement. Cut the head of the DC snake in one fell swoop. The individual states have an excellent model for self-defense – go full Heinlein – offer men and women voting rights attached to military service. Prepare to be on war footing constantly.
I don’t see any other realistic alternative. Neocons are delusional; paleocons are even more delusional; liberals are suicidal/homicidal.
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Cannon,
You are correct. I double checked that movie scene and it was not the same as you described. my apologies. i saw the “game theory” line and thought here we go again…
yeah, the movie scene has been thoroughly debunked as bad game theory, which i’ve studied a bit too.
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@Lincoln
Gorby, good stuff, to which I can profoundly relate. You should have your own blog.
Managing a small, occasionally rotating harem. All details slightly modified to protect the not-so-innocent.
Roissy’s a brave bastard. I prefer no interruption to the poon machine.
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lozlzlzozl i love u all from teh highest to the humblest
this weekend, when you’re out trying to get someone to touch your weiner lsolzlzollllzl please have sympathy for the ladies.
please know that they are confused and frightened too as they feel tehir eggs drying up.
now don’t take shit from them, but please understand them.
know that once upon a time, not too long ago, adults guided them and told them stories and beuatiful myths about how to truly be a princess requires virginity and how about even the grossest frog betaomega can be transofrmed into a prince with tehir love and they can have a family and be a motehr and a grand mother in all the awe and wonder and love of life and family.
but today the necons such as charlotte allen exalt teh secretive tapers of anal sex and buthex and draw the girl’s attention to buthexers who tape butthex without the girls consent and lie about tehir height and charlotte allen and teh weekly standard, staffed by short, hateful betamen, love seeing womenz debauched and sdesouled as they create war lzozlzlozozlzl and definlement via secretive tapings of buthex celebrations.
and here yuoyu have phd dr. psychiatrist necons encouraging women to lust after undead bloodsucking vampire monsters lzozlzlzlzl
http://townhall.com/columnists/MiriamGrossmanMD/2008/12/08/what_girls_want_an_edward_cullen_to_love_them
see though here is a commenter who sees that grossman is a neocn idiot working for the debauching butthexing undead vampire fucking and sucking ben bernanke team
“Has the doctor even read the books?
Good job Jennifer!
I cannot believe a medical doctor would use Edward Cullen as an example for someone teenage girls should want as their partners. Excuse me? Has the good doctor even read the books? Edward is abusive, he’s a stalker, he’s controlling. Not someone I want for my teenage daughter.
Unfortunately, many girls are now looking for their own Edward. Oh, not because he chooses to abstain from sex with Bella, but because he’s HOT. I’ve had a thirty-one-year-old friend tell me that she would “let Edward abuse her anytime” because he’s “HOT”. The three quotes used in the article are not the norm (although two do mention that what they like is that Edward is “cute” and “handsome”…so shallow). The actor who portrays Edward Cullen in the movie, Robert Pattinson, has been physically attacked on the streets by mobs of screaming fans. Yeah, they want him because the FICTIONAL character he plays controls himself when it comes to sex. Right.
If any abstinence occurs because of Twilight, it will because there is no man out there that can measure up to Edward’s perfection in the eyes of our teenage girls. The books and what I saw of the movie before I fell asleep (twice) ooze sex and our daughters, nieces, sisters and even mothers are lapping up every bit of it.
Personally, I chose to educate both of my daughters myself (they are now seventeen and twenty-two). However, the sex education classes they had at school helped them to “just say no” as well. Nothing can act as a better deterent than pictures of genital warts. FACT not FICTION.”
–http://townhall.com/columnists/MiriamGrossmanMD/2008/12/08/what_girls_want_an_edward_cullen_to_love_them
notice how the neocns shut down the coments section as charlotte allen and miraim grossman are not to be questioned but they, by the LAW OF GOLDMAN SAX which rhymes iwth TUCHER MAX and almost rhymes with BUTTHEX rule supreme lzozlzllzlzlzlz
you gotta love aging neocon psychologists telling girls to follow their gina tingles towards undead bloodsucking vampire monsters instead of finding their good prince who is off in afghanistan shedding his blood and dying for the necon regime which si bankrupting the world lzozzllzlzl sucking the life out of it lzozlzlz omg no wonder miraim grossman loves vampires and encouagrages girls 2 worship and gina tingle with undead monsters zlzozlzlzlz omg lzozlzlzzlozo
trhe funy thing about freud is taht every virtue every sign of restrain was labeled a repression lzozlzlzllzl and that is why women are so fucked up these days as the deconstructing defiling bloodsucking debauching neocons knocked them off teh straight and narrow commanding them to follo wtheir gina tingles aon twoards bloodsucking undead vampires zlozlzl
so when you’re out this week end have some sympathy for the young women and know that they were raidesd in a culture where aging neocon womenz h8 on tehir immortal souls and exalt secretive tapers of buthex without the girl’s consthent and bloodsucking vampire monster monsters monsters lzozlzzlz
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Dave from Hawaii,
I would love to hear more about the nagging part. How does one in marriage prevent it?
Shit test, nagging, they all sound the same to me…
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1. Who the fuck needs game when you’re in NYC? Seriously, if you’re not getting laid, try some east coast cities.
2. Does carefree game trump asshole game? I vote yes.
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”But sometimes I’m just plain puzzled. JB has puzzled me lately. He seems a bright and articulate guy, who doesn’t seem at war with facts. Yet he has a strong preference for sex only with serious mates – no half measures for him. I can’t wrap my head around it.“
Au contraire, you understand perfectly now. Peace brother.
”I forget who said that learning to be Alpha with girls via fucking a lot of them is dragging yourself through the muck. Maybe it was JB. Yes, it’s true. Education comes at a cost. The loss of innocence. It’s a dirty, dirty business.“
More than innocence. Identity can be lost. It depends on the identity.
“Xsplat – some other JB posted some beta crap for a day and got things confused. He’s been gone since then.”
Quit whining Original JB. You weren’t first.
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see when you go out this weekend have sympathy on the women:
http://www.amazon.com/Moon-Twilight-Saga-Stephenie-Meyer/dp/0316075655/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1274491083&sr=1-1
you can see the first three reviews are calling stephanie myers total neocon vampire blood-sucking/federal-reserve-worshipping worshipping bullshit
contrast the enlightened woman reader who is sick of having this neocon shit and tucker max’s books glorifying butthex and secretive tpaings of butthex shoved down their throats lzozlzllzoz zlzozll with aging neocons mirian fgrossman and charlotte allen who are hailing blooduscking vampire undead monsters and secretive tapers of butthex without the girl’s consent as succesful heroes.
–http://townhall.com/columnists/MiriamGrossmanMD/2008/12/08/what_girls_want_an_edward_cullen_to_love_them
when the dollar plumments to zero due to bernanke wiring trillions to all his friends, grils and women will be freed from teh necon ben bernake tucker max goldman sax wekkly standard ssecrtive tapers of butthex exalting undead pornifying moster worshipping vampire blodd cuking neocons lzozlzlzlz
so love the ladies. don’t let them disrepect godm, but knwo taht they have been brainwashed by teh neocn vampire secretive tapers of butthexing with out the girl’s consent cabal
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I would love to hear more about the nagging part. How does one in marriage prevent it?
Simple. A woman nags…because it works.
Don’t let it work anymore. Confront it and call it out for what it is.
Hypothetical: “Normally I wouldn’t mind taking out the garbage…but I’m not going to do it since you nagged me about it! I’m watching the game, and I’ll take it out when I’m done. If you can’t wait for that, than take it out yourself…but I’m NOT going to do it just because you nagged me to do it!”
Direct. Honest. Effective.
I used to be afraid to say something like that.
If you stop being a pussy afraid of her emotional state, and re-attach your balls and straighten up your spine, you can and will say something like that….chances are only a few times are necessary. Than the nagging stops.
If she starts to nag again, call her on it immediately. Don’t let that shit go.
“Quit your nagging, Woman!”
Than, you don’t always have to even say it angrily. Calm detachment is just as effective. Adjust for your personal situation accordingly. A deadpan:
“Now your just being bitchy.”
with a body language and demeanor that tells her “and it’s quite boring when you are bitchy,” is quite effective.
Mix it up so she never knows what to expect.
As for “nagging” being the same as shit tests…there’s truth to that too. You let the nagging work – where you concede to it just to shut her up – than you are failing that shit test.
Your reward will be more nagging.
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One reason to marry, and the only one I can think of, is to convert a K1 visa to bring your young non-American wife in from overseas.
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The big problem little mentioned about western sexual relations is the co-ed educational system. It promotes the idea that men and women should get together at about the same age. Why the hell would a man do that? Go young. Having an LTR with women your own age is a wacky as any feminist concoction within the last 100 years. It was not done in the past.
That is an essence of game. Its seniority.
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@chi-town
One reason to marry, and the only one I can think of, is to convert a K1 visa to bring your young non-American wife in from overseas.
I have to wholeheartedly agree with you on that one.
But then you have to run the Gauntlet of Shame.
(Sung loudest by 30+ SWPL harpies)
“Couldn’t get a good American wife!”
Response:
I fuck them, I like them fine. But marry them?
“Failure!”
Translation:
(Single, bitchy 30+ year-old harpy)
“Poisoning the gene pool.”
Translation:
(Racist, single, bitchy 30+ year-old harpy)
“Have fun with your FuckMeLongTime slut.”
Translation:
(Racist, bitter, single, bitchy 30+ year-old harpy)
“Can’t handle a real woman, eh?”
Translation:
(Ignorant SWPL harpy who’s never been out of state)
“Dude couldn’t get a white chick.”
Translation:
(Ignorant Beta whose wife I slept with)
“Asian girls have no breasts.”
(Bitter, single 30+ SWPL Harpy aging much less well)
“Asshole I wouldn’t want and his stupid bitch.”
Examination:
Homo Sapiens Harpy: An often charming but generally clueless sub-species of delusional human female, usually American but possibly also from Canada, Australia, the UK or New Zealand. Major distinguishing characteristics are narcissism, a sense of entitlement, self-righteousness and a genuine talent for projective and aggressive rationalization unparalleled among other females of the species. Tendency to sluttiness. Usually barren.
Later life often involves cats and / or dog walking and wistful memories of tragic love affairs, as well as spending time in bars wearing inappropriate clothing attempting to entice younger males into coitus.
Preferred habitat: Urban centers in close proximity to Women’s and Cultural Studies departments of major colleges.
Population currently expanding along with habitat.
Instructions for field agents: Engage subjects but do not bring home to mom.
* SOCIAL POLICY PREDICTION *
Under the pretense of protecting “newly arrived immigrant wives”, Feminists Of A Certain Age are going to make it harder to sponsor or bring in your Foreign Wife. But they won’t actually do anything to protect these endangered foreign wives when they get here.
The Union of Feminist Harridans and Harpies Who Hate Men will join forces with racist Conservatives and exurban fear-mongers to prevent educated American men from marrying foreigners.
I swear, though, when you see these Western guys – Americans (in Japan), Aussies, Germans (in Korea), French (in China especially), and Canadians (in Korea)- all marrying locals and bringing them home in huge numbers, I predict something else too:
The same way black women hate white women for “Stealing” the good Black men, educated 20-40 year-old American women are going to get the hate-on for Asian girls the same age.
Prettier, better-educated, smarter, and somehow a zillion times better at landing the educated American guy than American harpies (Attitude, anyone?), …
Wait, why do I care what these SWPL women think again?
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@chi-town
The big problem little mentioned about western sexual relations is the co-ed educational system. It promotes the idea that men and women should get together at about the same age. Why the hell would a man do that? Go young. Having an LTR with women your own age is a wacky as any feminist concoction within the last 100 years. It was not done in the past
That is an essence of game. Its seniority.
Hm. Interesting. Why would I bother with a woman my own age?
Oh yeah, I don’t.
Makes you wonder who the 35-year-olds date.
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WTF JB means? Both of them can shut up. Xsplat is getting resented too, but he shut up already.
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And this is becoming a forum for marriage and divorce: ok, prevention. But what about Assessment of Game?
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For all you guys who are worried about getting raped in divorce court, why not just get a fucking prenup?
I don’t have a prenup, but at least had the sense once I had kids to draw up a family trust. If I get divorced or die, half the money is automatically set aside for the kids. My wife and I split the other half. This is fairly standard stuff.
I have a net worth of about 10 million. If my wife leaves me I’ll take my 2.5 million and live out my days fucking teenagers in the Philippines.
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The hind-brain of a wild female baboon and the hind-brain of a big city female lawyer chick are completely interchangeable. Evolution was in a hurry back in the day and just used a readily available at the time and fairly standard gene-kit in each of them. This greatly expedited the sort of transition that sort of elevated humans above apes. However, if it were possible, they could lend these parts to each other if one lost or misplaced her own; the part numbers are the same.
This leaves us with the main question, ” What is the best approach for opening up and moistening the vagina of a pre-conscious, predatory, ruthless meat eating female ape that happens to smell just right for “Love”?
I can think of several:
1. Always be on alert.
2. Keep your weapons ready.
3. Calm them with a soothing voice while getting your hands on their sexual start buttons. Not so hard considering how many they have,
4. Keep a grip on their hair and/or neck-flesh to make sure they get every drop of that love..
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Gorbachev, as you write and think makes me wonder,,, are you any better then your wife?
You spit ash around you, as you are still upset, suffering is a test of your true yin yang, how do you think it went for you?
You ended up with wrong women, should good people pay your mistake? Makes me wonder, why you think you are eligible to hurt other people just because you have been yourself.
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Maurice, there is a sound and profound reason why I let my defenses slip and shared that I was feeling another wave of intense grief.
I’ll let you think about it.
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Bhetti, I know your life-style. You aren’t ashamed to feel things deeply.
To you a life without loving and being loved would be immature, at best. No, it would be stunted.
I like fire women like you. Frankly, you are the only type of women who I consider real.
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ASDF
I almost voted you a thumbs up, as your vision struck me in my gut and found a friend there.
But then I realized that women are very employable in non-managerial positions. So I think the genie is out of the bottle when it comes to women being able to be financially independent.
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xplat,
quit talking so tough and then talking like a pussy. it is confusing.
makes me think, as i continue to contend, that game may help slightly on margin but not much. clearly u cant hold it together. why should any other beta pussy be able to?
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i guess, as the saying goes: those that cant do teach.
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Those that can’t do watch as everyone else gets laid. Then those that can’t do rise up and force things back to the way they were, with much tumult and sorrow in the process.
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Summary:
Marriage is broken. Any male with any real Wealth IQ knows better then to stick his ringfinger into the Beartrap.
Until a reversal of no fault, manraping divorce in the US of A, Marriage will continue to die out with the exception of the beta/herb set.
RadFeminists proclaim they need a man like a fish needs a bicycle yet… they are quite happy to lay claim on greater than 50%+ of his developed wealth shows them for the hypocrites that they are.
Game is a bandaid for those men who are stuck in the the misandry nightmare.
Gone are the glorious 1950s when Mankind ruled the roost. Having a bevy of rotating stock is a poor substitute to a woman who birthed your kids, cooked really good food, kept the house clean, and massaged your feet after mixing your drink after you got home from a hard day at work.
Other poor substitutes are sex workers and porn. David Alexander is the part of the iceberg above the waterline here.
In all honest candor, it appears quite hopeless for the males of North America. We lost the republic and we lost the hearts and minds of the women.
game only gives us access to their bodies and frankly the 9,10s are too far and few between, and sex with 7,&8s is becoming rarer as the entitled Princesses fatify en masse with the help of mindbenders like Oprah and Dr. Pill
Longer term options:
Expat to non feminst ruled countries.
Band together and institute Sharia Law.
Start a coup/revolution by killing off the lawyers & bankers.
Game is a short term solution to a serious problem, and its just like the donut tire on someone’s Accura, it will get you down the road a little ways but your not going to a honeymoon vacation with it.
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“I have a net worth of about 10 million. If my wife leaves me I’ll take my 2.5 million and live out my days fucking teenagers in the Philippines.”
*cough* BULLSHIT *cough*
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And why do so many people like GBFM’s rambling, boring lololzlozz horseshit? It’s like listening to the ramblings of a schizophrenic – occasionally there’s something of note but 99% of what flows out of the guy’s mouth is pure bullshit.
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@Sidewinder
Remember the study Puma referenced at 1:12?
http://www.dadi.org/nyt_brak.htm
I’ll summarize and quote:
“Two economists analyzed all 46,000 divorces filed in one year, 1995, in four different states: Connecticut, Virginia, Montana and Oregon.” Big, serious study.
“At least 2/3 of divorce suits are filed by women.” Why? It’s not because men cheated. “Husbands were cited for adultery only slightly more often than wives.” Slightly more.
What is the #1 reason women file? “Women do not fear losing custody of the children. Instead, a divorce often enables them to gain control over the children.”
“In most states, including New York, New Jersey and Connecticut, mothers can fight for and usually win sole custody.” (“But some states have recently begun making joint custody the presumptive norm. In these states, divorce rates are decreasing.”)
As Doug 1 wrote, in NY, after 10 years of marriage, men pay alimony FOR LIFE.
Add it up: Lose your kids. Lose a lot of your assets. Pay alimony FOR LIFE. Pay so much child support it’s “stealth alimony”.
Is this helpful? No one is trying to tell you how to run your life. At the same time, knowing the facts will only help you make a better decisions.
So, with 50% of marriages ending in divorce, why do people want to get married? Well… most “people” don’t. Most women do.
Women gain social status with an engagement ring. Men don’t. (See Roissy’s post where a woman posted her ring on facebook.)
Women gain a lot of social status with marriage and kids. Men gain far less, if at all — depends on family, religion, culture.
In divorce, see above. Women get custody, half the assets, the house, and a monthly check.
For many women, divorce is like flipping a coin. Heads they win. Tails they don’t lose.
My thoughts:
There would be far fewer divorces if:
1) Child custody were 50-50 automatically, in every case.
2) Marital assets (house, investments, etc) were divided in divorce according to how much each spouse contributed. You get out what you put in.
3) There was no alimony. It’s an outdated notion anyway. See Doug 1’s post on the history of alimony.
For the record, I pay no alimony and have joint custody.
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@Polymath
“the winner gets to walk off with anookie and SD.”
That is so sweet (assuming not ironic, if so, the shame). But would hate to think of people fighting over me. Am definitely not fight-worthy (is any woman?) Of course, if you’re all just looking for an excuse for a rumble (as men do), am happy to play the role of the Nominal Cause.
@Dana
Maurice’s diplomatic charm is indeed quite something.
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[quote]“I have a net worth of about 10 million. If my wife leaves me I’ll take my 2.5 million and live out my days fucking teenagers in the Philippines.”
*cough* BULLSHIT *cough*[/quote]
douche what fucking planet do you live on? my wife is a dentist and makes roughly 750k per year. I own my own business and make roughly 1.25M per year. My house is paid for and worth 4M and the NPV of my business is 3M. The rest is stocks and property.
and a boring shit like you talks shit to GBFM?
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Gorby,
You have really been on fire today, mad props.
But I was disturbed to see you agreeing with Mike in making categorical statements about the impossibility of marital happiness. Women who are good marriage material are scarcer but still exist.
Eventually you said something which clarified things:
The Hispanic/Immigrant/Asian/ChristianRight/MiddleAmerica segment of the population is having families and babies, and will outbreed the rest of us.
The educated elites of Western civilization are absolutely committing population suicide. Thank Feminism.
Now I know what was wrong with your earlier statements. News Flash: Hispanic women are women. Immigrant women are women. Asian women are women. Christian Right women are women. Middle America women are women. So who the fuck do you mean by “us” in the “the rest of us”?
You were, without any previous acknowledgement, over a very long sequence of posts, making statements about “women” which were really only about the most salient women in your frame, “educated elites of Western civ” who are secular and coastal. No wonder those statements struck me as not only wrong but dopey. (For the record, I am married to a woman who is very well-educated but has always qualified as “middle America” and for many years has also qualified as “Christian Right” (Catholic version)).
Again, almost everything you have said today is great, but stop presuming your readers are all struggling with the exact same cultural and social background you have been.
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Yes, happiness, you very clearly are unable to grasp my message.
It’s beyond you. It requires the mental capacity to hold two seemingly conflicting views simultaneously.
Maybe one day you’ll come to appreciate that I know what I’m talking about and have a lot to offer, in how to love bitches. And the value of it.
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“And why do so many people like GBFM’s rambling, boring lololzlozz horseshit?”
Because he is fucking funny. My favorite line of his was in response to a girl who went on a trip and came back and made soup for the dude. The dude was perplexed: “Yes, she went away on a trip by herself, but when she came back she immediately made soup for me. What to think?”
GBFM: “MMmmm Gooodddd… Cum Soup”.
Also the coke bottle line: “If you see an open coke bottle in an alley, would you drink from it? Odds are it hasn’t had a cock in it, yet you wouldn’t drink from it. But you would…”
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“Maybe one day you’ll come to appreciate that I know what I’m talking about and have a lot to offer, in how to love bitches. And the value of it.”
xplat, you are a douchebag.
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greatbooksformen: You might actually accomplish something if you write like a normal human being. If you don’t know how to write, go take a remedial english class. You make no sense and all your lolz bullshit is just idiotic. Thank you from everyone.
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Reason #4 Guys need it… The big reason I got into “game” as a structured approach was because I’d been beaten at my own game and needed to restore my inner confidence….fast.
Game helped me better understand the psycho-social-biological aspects to male/female relations and realize/solidify/confirm what women really want vs what they SAY they want.
The ideas behind game: look confident, approach with confidence, DHV, alpha vs beta…passing shit tests…that’s as much for a guy’s inner confidence as it is because of #3 “Chicks dig it”….they dig it if the guy delivers.
Increasingly in Asia, as I use game, I begin to get women explaining what they want vs what they don’t want…
In the past my success was visceral, and hit and miss….more greater beta than alpha.
After a dry spell, within two months of discovering “game”/Mystery Method, Roissy-principles of poon I was able to recover and bang two hotties within the space of a weekend.
The “haters” of game who see it as manipulative of women fail to understand or take into consideration the supreme irony…women are in their nature manipulative so game is the male version of the “shit test”….
Nothing ever goes 100% to script but in the longer-run, the response to game gives a guy the confidence to get past any failures: (see 16 commandments of poon)
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Can anyone guess which famous person wrote this?
*************************************
I’m happy to tell you there’s very little in this world that I believe in. Listening to the [people] who comment on political, social, and cultural issues, I notice that most of their material reflects kind of an underlying belief that somehow things were better once and with just a little effort we could set them right again. They’re looking for solutions, and rooting for particular results, and I think that limits the tone and substance of what they say. They’re talented and funny people, but they’re really nothing more than cheerleaders attached to a specific, wished-for outcome.
I don’t feel so confined. I frankly don’t give a fuck how it all turns out in this country, or anywhere else for that matter. I think the human game was up a long time ago when the high priests and traders took over, and now we’re just playing out the string. And that is, of course, precisely what I find so amusing; the slow circling of the drain by a once promising species, and the sappy, ever more desperate belief in this country that there is actually some sort of an “American Dream,” which has merely been misplaced.
The decay and disintegration of this culture is astonishingly amusing if you are emotionally detached from it. And I’ve always viewed it from a safe distance, knowing I don’t belong; doesn’t include me, it never has. No matter how you care to define it, I do not identify with the local group. Planet, species, race, nation, state, religion, party, union, club, association, neighborhood improvement committee; I have no interest in any of it. I love and treasure individuals as I meet them, I loathe and despise the groups they identify with and belong to.
So, if you read something in this book that sounds like advocacy of a particular political point of view, please reject the notion. My interest in issues is merely to point out how badly we’re doing, not to suggest a way we might do better. Don’t confuse me with those who cling to hope. I enjoy describing how things are. I have no interest in how they “ought to be.” And I certainly have no interest in fixing them. I sincerely believe that if you think there’s a solution, you’re part of the problem. My motto: Fuck Hope!
P.S. In case you’re wondering, personally, I am a joyful individual, I had a long, happy marriage and a close and loving family; my career has turned out better than I ever dreamed, and it continues to expand; I’m a personal optimist but a skeptic about all else. What may sound to some like anger is really nothing more than sympathetic contempt. I view my species with a combination of wonder and pity, and I root for its destruction. And please don’t confuse my point of view with cynicism; the real cynics are the ones who tell you everything’s going to be all right.
P.P.S. By the way, if, by some chance, you folks do manage to straighten things out and make everything better, I still don’t wish to be included.
*************************************
[Ostronova] Just for the record, this is exactly my own point of view. I quote this passage above because I notice that almost every single regular poster here fits into the category of people who believe “that somehow things were better once and with just a little effort we could set them right again.” In other words, almost everyone here is morally engaged, one way or another.
The great John Derbyshire once wrote:
Now, another thing: If a person were to read nothing but all the commenters on this blog (and I ignore the female contributers because I trust absolutely nothing that a woman writes or says on the subjects typically discussed here), he would conclude: When things go wrong between men and women, and divorce, breakup, or other troubles result, the men are never to blame. Of course, if you read nothing but certain OTHER blogs, we all know which sort, the WOMEN are never to blame.
I don’t buy either position in its pure form. Two-thirds of divorces (probably more in fact) are initiated by women, and until I see hard proof to the contrary, I can safely assume that some of those actions are thoroughly justifiable; what proportion, I don’t know, and neither does anyone else. If you operate from the assumption that a husband’s infidelity is the ONLY good reason that a woman could seek a divorce, then, fine, most of those divorces will seem unjustifiable to you. But that means your position is that the husband can do, or not do, absolutely anything he likes other than be unfaithful, and that the wife has no good grounds for objection.
Suppose the husband engages in one or more of the following common behaviors:
refuses to get a job?
becomes a disfunctional alcoholic or drug addict?
sends his beaten wife to the hospital on a regular basis?
abuses the children?
refuses to have sex?
loses all interest in and attraction to his wife and stops making even the least effort, game-related or otherwise, to keep the marriage vital?
becomes hooked on internet porn and video games and no longer gives a flying fuck about the marriage and the kids?
I have the impression that some of you will do anything to avoid admitting that sometimes, husbands do these things even before the wife has had a chance to cheat on him.
Or how about this: Since everyone here pretty much agrees that either natural alphaness, or solid applied Game, is *NECESSARY* to keep women sexually interested, what about those husbands who have neither? Or even those who try their best to learn Game but fail? Everyone here always says that “women HATE HATE HATE Betas.” So if a woman finds her husband has become 100% beta, and it looks like an incurable case, she’s no longer going to have her marital needs met because she can’t bear to be touched by him. If a husband has a right to divorce his wife because she’s no longer putting out, doesn’t that work the other way round too? Or in the morally engaged male renaissance viewpoint expressed here, is the wife expected to spend the rest of her life tied — faithfully — to a man she HATE HATE HATES?
[Don’t mistake my position: I believe every male should read about and master as much Game as possible because it will increase their chances of INDIVIDUAL happiness. But I have no interest in The Issues other than as sources of intellectual entertainment. The extinction of the human race would be the ideal thing, but since we’re obviously stuck with it, there’s nothing to do but laugh at it, since its flaws are incurable and ever-worsening.]
[editor: if 2/3 of women are initiating divorce and at least some of those divorces are because of the husband’s bad behavior, then it stands to follow that of the 1/3 of divorces initiated by men at least some of *those* divorces are because of the wife’s bad behavior. and note too, that these are husbands initiating divorce in the teeth of a system that is rigged against them, so whatever their wives were doing must’ve been *really* bad.
so the end result is that, because of the skew in who initiates divorce, it is more often the case that wives are initiating divorces from boredom and ennui. this wouldn’t necessarily be such a bad thing if there weren’t also a heavy financial price to be paid by the husbands who failed to excite lifelong tingles in their fickle wives.]
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my guess is that was HST. no?
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it also sounds like george carlin at his best, but ill still go with HST.
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Roissy,
How do plan on having kids, hopefully as many as possible? Without reproduction, game is not an evolutionary stable strategy… Unless you go out of your way to cheat with young moms unlikely to be on the pill… Hmmmm….
[editor: who cares if game is not an evolutionary stable strategy? we’re all dead in the end.]
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david mamet?
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For all you guys who are worried about getting raped in divorce court, why not just get a prenup?
Not so simple.
Your wife gets a protective order, freezing you out of the house.
Then what?
Your wife accused you of domestic violence, and you get charged with a crime.
Then what?
Your wife convinces your children that you molested them.
Then what?
Seeing a pattern here?
There’s way more to a relationship with a woman going South than a simple alimony payment.
A man who gets out of a marriage simply paying alimony and child support has done pretty well. In today’s era, protective orders and false accusations of child support are standard divorce court tactics.
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“Can anyone guess which famous person wrote this?”
Whiskey? maybe Moldbug?
and if it isn’t neo-, GBFM will place it.
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“Bhetti, I know your life-style. You aren’t ashamed to feel things deeply.
To you a life without loving and being loved would be immature, at best. No, it would be stunted.
I like fire women like you. Frankly, you are the only type of women who I consider real.
just putting it out there, but that is absolutely grounds for a restraining order
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JB, if I do understand you, that you prefer to form lasting – even permanent – strong emotional bonds with a life mate, then don’t you see a risk in your approach?
Read Gorbachev’s stuff a few times. Seems to me that your attitude puts you at risk of having a wife who fucks Gorbachev.
I can’t tell how many girls I fucked who would call up their boyfriend while I was slapping away on their stomach.
Seems to me the only way to be able to make a woman feel like a woman is to know how to be a bad man.
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Correction – answer the phone with her boyfriend while I was slapping away on her belly.
That kind of think happens ALL the time.
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Don’t you people know how to use a search engine?
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@ whoever wrote the really long post above
It would be fun to shoot people who say things like this, just for the experience.
Mindless entertainment / psychological experiment for me, realization of “the ideal thing” for them.
Win win!
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dumb ass nigger ‘aragorn’:
“For all you guys who are worried about getting raped in divorce court, why not just get a fucking prenup?”
forbes put tiger at $600 million in may of 2009. they say he has rev’ed a billion and rev’s a hundred mill a year… at least before that scandal knobbed his advertising payouts.
tiger had a pre-nup that doled out a hearty $100 million after ten years of marriage. he busted after 8 years and was thumb-twisted to open up the signature page. elin originally wanted the tenure waived.
the “sex therapy” was a demand of their “marriage counseling”. tiger did it.
elin, the ruthless, compassion-less mercenary that all common-sense men know her to be (not mainstream by any sorts) is amazingly lucky to breathe easily. if i was a singular entity on the hook for $750 million, 25% of which i haven’t yet earned, i would personally just kill her. i mean, think of all the follies of assassination. what’s the most expensive folly you have ever heard???
i think it’s around $50,000. any more than that, and especially significantly more, and that broad sleeps with jimmy hoffa, the newest addition to the old Meadowlands. that’s quite a difference between seven hundred and fifty MILLION dollars. shit, i am slightly, slightly, SLIGHTLY tempted to just martyr myself to keep idiots like elin from assuming they will skeet scot-free.
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So why do you still read it?
I’m with Avinguda Diagonal above — I think he should just call himself “copyandpasteformen”, since all of his posts that I’ve skimmed (about five) have been permutations of exactly the same words.
But I’m also unusual — I can’t watch Beavis and Butt-head or South Park for more than 20 seconds before the voices make me want to throw a bowling ball at the TV screen, but those are huge popular hits.
So I just understand that most people can somehow filter through the incredibly annoying superficial qualities of south park / beavis and butthead / copyandpasteformen, while I can’t.
Whatever. It takes all kinds.
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epoxy,
i definitely read a clancy book about that once! it was one of my favorites!
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@ Cannon
Most guys wouldn’t have the balls.
Probably the best “marriage insurance” a guy can have consists of the following 2 things:
1) Have a prenuptial agreement
2) Be the kind of guy who can make CREDIBLE threats of doing crazy, crazy shit if she tries to work you.
As for #2, if your woman will stay with you after you make the following statements — and MEAN them — then your marriage probably isn’t in a lot of trouble:
* “See that shit Tiger’s wife is pulling? I love you, but if you tried a fraction of that shit I would just kill you. I’d get ‘out’ sooner.”
* “If we split, and you went after me for half in court, I would burn everything to ashes right in front of your face, work cash-only jobs, and live in a car. I’d rather throw away 100% than be forced to hand over 50%.”
The problem is, of course, that most men would not be credible if they said these things. Hell, they probably couldn’t convince themselves, let alone their women.
I mean them, and I’m even the type of guy who in an amicable split (yes, they exist) would gladly hand over lavish financial support — frankly, I only see money as a way to support a family and to pay my own medical bills, and honestly have a hard time even figuring out how to spend it when I’m single.
But it’s prisoner’s dilemma — you play nice, I’ll play nice. You pull the trigger once, I’ll gladly cut off my own nose to spite _your_ face.
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xplat,
ignore the fact i called you a douchebag, because you are a douchebag.
you are clearly a lying piece of shit.
and i wouldn’t care about that. i would almost feel sorry for you except you are the sort that perpetuates all these myths about Game. i admit, game is like a woman putting on her makeup. and of course makeup does matter.
BUT…. Game, like makeup, is not revolutionary. It will help you on margin, but it won’t change your life. Our humble narrator here acts as if it will change your life. Unless you have everything else together and the only thing you lack is an understanding of Game, OK, maybe for you it will be a life changer. But few people fall into that category.
Men mostly are what they are. A few makeup tips here and there might help, but they are still going to evince their essence.
i guess what makes me “a hater” is the fact that Game seems so faggy and metro. Sure, a good fashion sense works. I wish i had better fashion sense myself.
but when i see the metros and their fashion sense i just want to beat them up and hope it gets classified as a hate crime against fags.
i only know Mystery through a few online videos — never heard of him before i started reading this site — and he falls into that category of Metro. Sure, women might love it. But i don’t see it as something to brag about to other guys.
i don’t get the bragging thing, particularly since humans are such sophisticated liars. it seems our motivations would be to claim we aren’t getting laid when we really are and vice-versa.
but what do i know? im just a fucking drunk.
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Oh, and,
3) Pick a good woman.
They do exist.
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I can appreciate colorful storytelling. I don’t really care whether what xsplat says is true, because it just doesn’t matter. When you’re dealing with people you don’t know who live halfway around the world, truth is irrelevant to entertainment value.
Why do you care so much?
For the record, his stories are well within the realm of possibility. And not just because he’s in a country where women have to whore themselves out for subsistence calories (although that helps) — I know an ugly-ass motherfucker who lives right here in California, in his fifties, whose stories would make xsplat’s look like second-grade sandbox tales.
This guy is just a normal dude, who happens to own a head shop, ride motorcycles, and have access to drugs.
Women do crazy shit for a lot less.
Your understanding is fundamentally flawed.
“Game” is not a set of tactics. Game is the attitude, the mindset, that underlies those tactics.
You are absolutely correct: cheesy show tactics will accomplish little. Putting on a top hat, black nail polish, swim goggles, and shiny shirts won’t make a success out of you. But the organism-level sea change in ATTITUDE required for some scrub to do these things — and to affect a certain degree of panache in doing them — will change everything. Everything from sales, to relationships, to negotiating, to avoiding fights, to starting fights, to applying for grants, to raising children, to …
The reason you think of “game” as a set of tactics is because you’re listening to people who SELL things.
You can sell tactics.
You can’t sell good old fashioned masculinity, the kind that is born of imperfect circumstances and tempered by challenges and adversity.
The guys with the top hats and shiny shirts are just guys who have to impose artificial adversity on themselves, because they’ve never dealt with real adversity.
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Reason #4 Guys need it… The big reason I got into “game” as a structured approach was because I’d been beaten at my own game and needed to restore my inner confidence….fast.
Game helped me better understand the psycho-social-biological aspects to male female relations and realize solidify confirm what women really want vs what they SAY they want.
The ideas behind game: look confident, approach with confidence, DHV, alpha vs beta…passing shit tests…that’s as much for a guy’s inner confidence as it is because of #3 “Chicks dig it”….they dig it if the guy delivers.
Increasingly in Asia, as I use game, I begin to get women explaining what they want vs what they don’t want…
In the past my success was visceral, and hit and miss….more greater beta than alpha.
After a dry spell, within two months of discovering “game” and Mystery Method, Roissy-commandments of poon I was able to recover and bang two hotties within the space of a weekend.
The “haters” of game who see it as manipulative of women fail to understand or take into consideration the supreme irony…women are in their nature manipulative so game is the male version of the “shit test”….
Nothing ever goes 100% to script but in the longer-run, the response to game gives a guy the confidence to get past any failures: (see 16 commandments of poon)
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Epoxycotin,
But realistically, how are you going to accomplish this Sea Change in attitude?
This goes back to that old saying “All you can change is your attitude.”
But what is fucking harder in life to change than one’s attitude? It’s like saying change your personality. It’s like saying change your soul.
I think I could change everything else in my life more easily than I could change my attitude.
Full disclosure here: i’m a complete loser. always have been. one thing i’ve noticed is, that i find interesting, is how the “alphas” usually have good taste in things like fashion but horrible taste in things like music. my recent theory about this is it is because us losers spend more time alone and seek succor through music and therefore, over time, become music snobs. You’ll notice music snobs are usually dorks, but they still don’t know how to dress. Probably a feedback loop in action there. The lady’s man, knowing women care more about fashion than music, will study it and receive feedback on it. Whereas the loser dork, stuck alone, receives compensation from music—as opposed to hot pussy— and therefore ends up knowing a lot about music but nothing about how to dress. And whatever it was that one spent a lot of time studying: fashion, music, literature–becomes a part of one’s identity.
One’s identity is their mindset. It is formed over years and years, and is as is malleable as rock. i.e., yes, it can change, but it will take many years.
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@epoxy-
Sure, but that takes the challenge, sport, and fun out of it. You yourself called BS on cut-and-paste type stuff above. And,
Yup.
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@Polymath
Gorby,
Eventually you said something which clarified things:
-The Hispanic/Immigrant/Asian/ChristianRight/MiddleAmerica segment of the population is having families and babies, and will outbreed the rest of us.
-The educated elites of Western civilization are absolutely committing population suicide. Thank Feminism.
You were, without any previous acknowledgement, over a very long sequence of posts, making statements about “women” which were really only about the most salient women in your frame, “educated elites of Western civ” who are secular and coastal. No wonder those statements struck me as not only wrong but dopey. (For the record, I am married to a woman who is very well-educated but has always qualified as “middle America” and for many years has also qualified as “Christian Right” (Catholic version)).
Again, almost everything you have said today is great, but stop presuming your readers are all struggling with the exact same cultural and social background you have been.
Um, … Polymath.
I stand sorely and heavily corrected. I am pwned.
I’m commenting from a White Educated Secular East Coast City perspective. I assumed the audience. My very bad.
I have been properly and sorely chastised.
I now restate my point:
Educated (liberal) elite women, of all races and backgrounds, raised in the shadow of the hydra-tentacled spectre of self-contradicting Feminism and Entitlement, are not-breeding themselves out of existence. It’s the sucking squelch of a population funnel.
The New Crop of Female Entitlement Harpies will have to be converts from the Conservatives, Hispanic immigrants whose children go to college, and Middle Americans who migrate to the cities and lose themselves.
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(ahappinessexperiment picked up the scent! It was indeed George Carlin, from the preface to his first book, “Brain Droppings.” By the way, who is ‘HST’?)
Now for more stuff I need to get off my chest:
It is not surprising that men on blogs like Roissy, The-Spearhead, etc. are at such pains to trumpet the achievements of men, their good character, etc. etc. considering all the abuse we’ve suffered at the hands of feminists and their lackeys over the past few decades. But in the interests of objectivity, and of avoiding falling into ideological traps of ANY kind, I’d like to remind you all of an uncomfortable truth (first articulated in this form, I think, by SF writer Theodore Sturgeon — correct me if I’m wrong): 99% of everything is CRAP. That includes human beings of BOTH SEXES, plus 99% OF EVERYTHING THEY SAY, DO, AND PRODUCE, PAST, PRESENT, AND FUTURE.
Just being a man does not allow you to take credit for the good things that men have achieved on this planet. Great achievements, whether in the realm of politics, science and technology, the arts, in fact anything you care to name, were and are done by A REMOTELY TINY FRACTION OF MEN. Or in other cases, individual men or small groups of men commanding large numbers of other people who simply did what they were told.
Why am I saying these things? Because I cannot take seriously any advocate who does not demonstrate serious understanding of the other side of the case. Believe me, I love reading these blogs wherein women and their evil allies get the bashing they so richly deserve, and it’s fun and educational to read all these extremely wide-ranging, penetrating, convincing, and clever expositions of the true nature of women; but after many months of reading, I am forced to observe a clear lack of “all-sides-viewing” in all but the tiniest number of writers. (This includes Roissy himself, by the way; in his case, I have no doubt that he could see things objectively and clearly from any side he chose, simply thanks to his obvious and oft-demonstrated acumen, but he apparently feels no need to do so in this case, perhaps seeing no need or incentive.)
Not that I’m putting myself forward as a candidate; I don’t understand women at all — that’s why I read blogs such as this. As for recognizing the deeds and monuments of men, I’m just as capable as anyone here of picking up and quoting from a copy of Charles Murray’s Human Achievement; but I would also point out that Communism and Fascism, two entirely male inventions, were directly responsible for the deaths (at male hands) of HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS of innocent men, women, and children in the last century alone. I would also like to point out that all the miseries and social perversions brought upon us by feminism, the sexual revolution, etc. ONLY HAPPENED BECAUSE MEN PERMITTED, ENCOURAGED, AND FINALLY, INSTITUTED THEM.
Men didn’t create the monstrous society of today; BUT THEY ALLOWED WOMEN AND THEIR HENCHMEN (well chosen word if I say so myself) TO CREATE IT, and there’s no end in sight of this conniving. So you will excuse me if I say that 99% of men must be crap because 99% of them keep proving it, year after year, decade after decade, as the most casual monthly glance at developments in the civilized world invariably show.
Just go to any place where you can see a huge number of random, ordinary human beings, and focus your attention on the men. Impressed with what you see? Neither am I. They’re no better than the women they’re with. Can you really blame women for their disenchantment? Even though most women deserve no better?
Remove the beam in your eye, say I, and look straight at yourself and your sex. A serious and successful effort to do so will make you a much more formidable opponent in the culture wars.
P.S. So why don’t I go read wimminz blogs and websites to educate myself on the bad sides of men? Simple: Do YOU trust anything a woman says concerning men? Neither do I.
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@ahappinessexperiment
xplat,
and i wouldn’t care about that. i would almost feel sorry for you except you are the sort that perpetuates all these myths about Game. i admit, game is like a woman putting on her makeup. and of course makeup does matter.
BUT…. Game, like makeup, is not revolutionary. It will help you on margin, but it won’t change your life.
…
Men mostly are what they are. A few makeup tips here and there might help, but they are still going to evince their essence.
i guess what makes me “a hater” is the fact that Game seems so faggy and metro. Sure, a good fashion sense works. I wish i had better fashion sense myself.
but when i see the metros and their fashion sense i just want to beat them up and hope it gets classified as a hate crime against fags.
Guy. These metro fags are getting laid. By actual women.
i only know Mystery through a few online videos — never heard of him before i started reading this site — and he falls into that category of Metro. Sure, women might love it. But i don’t see it as something to brag about to other guys.
i don’t get the bragging thing, particularly since humans are such sophisticated liars. it seems our motivations would be to claim we aren’t getting laid when we really are and vice-versa.
Dude.
We’re just some random commenters on a blog. The blog is usually amusing. It passes the time. No bragging necessary. Anyone who ever actually learned game and made half an effort knows this isn’t bragging.
I don’t care if you think game or fashion or metro are gay. Frankly, I couldn’t care less what other men, “Real Men”, think about game. Not a whit. Your opinion of game and how it can help men is irrelevant.
Learning game came out of pain and it was freaking difficult. I had to re-learn everything I thought about human social interaction. I had to ditch the bizarre notions I had about women. It took forever. It was agonizing.
I didn’t learn game to impress buddies.
I learned game for exactly one reason: I wanted to sleep with women who were more attractive than I would otherwise be able to get. As much as I could. I wanted to be in control of relationships with them, instead of the other way round.
I love women. Generally. They’re absolutely awesome. Not even just for sex, they’re great to know and hang out with and do things with and it’s great that they are who they are. I adore being with them.
Impressing guys didn’t even figure on the edge of my radar.
Impressing Real Men by dressing like a Real Guy sounds pretty damned gay. Having relations with women sounds pretty much the definition of heterosexual.
If I decide to dress Metro and walk down the street, impressing the Dudes with my Real Man Status is pretty much the last thing on my mind.
So, with all due and sincere respect, fuck you.
Your loss.
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This thread seems to have become a discussion about marriage and divorce in part. Some of my experiences.
My wife of many years threatened to divorce me over some juvenile activity on my part. Her divorced friends were egging her on to divorce me. This is a woman I have supported for years in fine style. We are financially secure. I said sure thing, no problem from me, but pointed out that divorce would not improve her financial situation (nor help my situation, either.) Divorce is about the only thing which could threaten her financial situation, in fact.
End of discussion of divorce.
When my son was looking around for a wife at age 30 (he is a doctor), you wouldn’t believe how social one of our oh so progressive and liberal long time friends and her daughter became with our family and my son. (My family, including my son, are about as conservative as you can be and still be socially respectable. Hell, he likes C&W and ice hockey.) You know, the divorced woman with a 30 year old daughter. The daughter has wasted her youth on a silly liberal arts career and spent time traveling the world to that end. And a string of boy friends from various parts of the world. Thanks to her love of the sun, her skin looks years older than her calendar age. She needs to find a beta provider. The mother had married a doctor in her 30’s, and got divorced after three kids. Now, here she was, pimping out her daughter, trying for the same deal with my son.
After my son made it clear that he wasn’t interested in marrying her (He married another doctor. My son is not stupid.), she reverted to her previous mode, immediately shacking up with a nice looking, somewhat older guy who works in ladies gyms and lives off his girl friends. This guy is the embarrassing black sheep of his family, but, as I say, nice looking.
And the mother, our family friend? Hardly contacts us anymore.
Now, in what way is my experience at variance with what is posted on this blog by the “haters”?
The point of discussing marriage and divorce on this blog is to point out, to the young men, the drawbacks of marrying young. Running game, and enjoying your youth, and building yourself up economically is how you should go through your 20’s and 30’s. Getting into a long term monogamous relationship before 40 seems crazy looking back on it. Learn to socialize, get educated and experienced. This includes learning game. When you hit 40, after having lots of life experience, including experience with women, you might be ready for marriage.
BTW, I would strongly advise against the Game lifestyle. Don’t spend too much time on Game. Woman aren’t that important. Think of Game like golf.
I tell people that almost everything they think they know is a lie. For example, just saw Robin Hood last night. Great film, but the historical depiction of Richard the Lion Hearted and the entire political situation of the day was grossly distorted, for no apparent reason. It wasn’t necessary to advance the plot. It was a bunch of lies with no apparent motive but to degrade Western civilization in the eyes of the young.
It was predicted on this blog site that Tiger’s wife would divorce him, since she struck him. It was predicted on this blog site that Rihanna would stick with her man, since he struck her.
This blog site is one of the few honest sites on the internet.
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This is bullshit, in three different ways.
First, you’re assuming that “horrible taste in music” is an objective reality. It’s not.
If you dig deep enough, you’ll find that it means “taste that doesn’t agree with MY taste”.
Look man, if you want to despise popular culture, that’s all good with me — I’m mostly with you there — but popular culture is *popular* for a reason.
The more unique your skills and talents, the more, um, “unique” will be your idiosyncrasies and tastes, too. Whatever. Deal with it.
Second, you’re assuming that the public face of these alphas — the face that they project to “losers” et al — is the same as their private face. Horribly naive.
You know those treacly “human interest stories” about Olympic athletes, where they reveal that Mr. Big Star spends some of his free time making toy ships in bottles, or playing the violin, or whatever else?
Those aren’t exceptions. MOST people are multidimensional like this — it’s just that “alphas” are more adept at knowing which sides to display, when. It’s just basic situational awareness.
If you are ignorant of the basic situational factors that encourage or proscribe the expression of certain tastes, then accept the fact that you are WILLFULLY ignorant (unless you are full blown autistic), because you just don’t care enough to notice, or to change things.
More bullshit.
A dominant, charismatic personality can take almost anything under the sun and make it “cool”.
Personal anecdote time: Women and teenagers are probably the two most closed-minded, prejudicial groups around, and I’m good with both. (The first doesn’t need to be elaborated; as for the second, I make 50% of my living working with high schoolers.)
You want to know how “conventional” my tastes are?
I like:
* Romantic-era classical music
* Obscure languages like Catalan (sorry, Catala and Avinguda) and Finnish
* Reading maps for fun and taking imaginary road trips
* Optimizing strategies for random shit (“let me figure out how to open cell phone app X with the fewest strokes”)
These are not “cool” things, but I MAKE them cool. You don’t think you could make hot pussy (or teenagers) interested in these things?
The message is 10% of the message.
The rhetoric is 30% of the message.
The messenger’s appearance and image is 60% of the message.
I’ll write more on this in a bit if I’m so inclined, but I’m going to make a conjecture.
Which would you find easier:
(1) Cutting ties with people who are negative influences in your life; or
(2) Rearranging your entire life just to minimize those people’s influence?
I’m betting that you are type 2.
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@ Maurice
Well, sure. But the reason I’m really giving you shit is because you posted your wrong guess on the board.
You knew that, I’m sure.
@ happiness guy
By “three different ways” I meant two. There are obscure Philippine languages that don’t differentiate between “two” and “three”.
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@11minutes
It’s not like married women are completely unavailable.
Duh.
But, given the violence that can unfold in cuckolded men it is a risky lifestyle. Seducing a married woman thus takes skill and balls (and, needless to say, a lack of bad conscience).
Hm. Conscience? Who’s the married one? Who made vows?
Seriously, if men don’t like their women being pounded by another guy, … take it up with the women.
Thus, having more single women around actually works against the mega harems that the highest status men accrue. It becomes easier for lesser men to do the same.
For sure.
Lots of little harems around, probably diachronically overlapping. Hot women shared over their sexual lifetime.
If you’re a 6, you need an edge. Game is a great tool. Hone it on the bitter stone of rejection and trial and error.
The only people who will suffer are women over 35. The constant influx of younger women into the mating market is competition too much.
It’s harsh for women over 35. By 40 it’s done. Over 40 and they have no sexual or mating value of any kind. Might as well be asexual. Get used to sleeping with rejects and 60 year-olds.
The problem is that women confuse the interest men had in their pussy (21-30) with interest in them as mates. They assumed there’d be hot guys for them forever.
When these guys disappear (sharply – at about 33-40, but it’s a sharp drop for each woman), the quality of mate they can get is much lower.
Their mistake was in overestimating their attractiveness in the first place. Most of those guys who were lining up when she was 26 were really after sex. Not to mate with her. She confused these and reveled in the sexual power and experience of it. No need to mate. Thanks, Feminism.
When she’s 35, she’s shocked at the dramatically lower quality of men who want her even for sex. But she sees lots of them for sex, so she thinks she’s still valuable. But none of these guys wants her as a mate.
(She still doesn’t want any betas. Too bad; they’re ready and willing, the poor saps.)
By 40, she’s ridden the ego-restoring penis ride for a while, and then, … the men don’t even want her for sex. And they definitely don’t want her for a mate.
Feminism lied to women. It lied and lied and lied again.
I know an astonishing number of sanctimoniously bitter 35-45 year-old Urban White Liberal women who career-devotioned and alpha-cock-rode their way to childlessness, singlehood and bar-trolling. Some of them divorced perfectly nice guys for dreams of hotter men.
If I were to name a top investment given this direction we are headed as society, I’d say pet shops. Dogs will be the new husband.
HEY!
This is already true. Investing in Toy Dog Products (Chihuahua socks, anyone?) has been hot for about a decade.
Borrowing a dog to chat up 30-35 year old women is by far the easiest way to get laid. Like shooting fish in a barrel. You barely even need game.
Guys learning game should try this one. It’s always good. It gives you good early confidence.
Never be creepy. And be into “your” dog. Have lots of doggie knowledge to talk about.
BTW, having a dog of your own is a bad idea. It badly restricts your time-availability. You want to be able to stay out without having to go back and let the dog out of its crate.
What you need is access to a dog to borrow. Select good dog-walking routes; walk a neighbour’s dog for free every day for a while. Check out the local park during dog-walking times. Always, always, always reliable. Lots of scope to open up women.
The best thing is that if the women have BFs or husbands, the mates are almost never with them.
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@Original JB
Yes, increased leisure time for women was a precondition for feminism. The thought is hardly new. But game and HBD and the collapse of the PC narrative may turn back the traditional gender roles clock without luddism. So it’s not perspicacious of you to assert that erasing 200 years of technological progress is the only answer. After all, how feminist is Japan?
Your suggestion for an Italian warring city states model of the US is indeed painful. The object of government is to avoid the state of war, because it is the worst possible state save perhaps democide. Again, not very perspicacious.
Secure state power is the best security. Pricking the pretty lies will take care of the nonsense social engineering, eventually. While I’m not against a peaceful revolution, yours is a nightmare.
@Ostronova
“When things go wrong between men and women, and divorce, breakup, or other troubles result, the men are never to blame. Of course, if you read nothing but certain OTHER blogs, we all know which sort, the WOMEN are never to blame.”
I agree. Men are to blame for unintended relationship failure because, in almost all cases, their game was weak.
@Xsplat
“Seems to me that your attitude puts you at risk of having a wife who fucks Gorbachev.”
A wife? Singular? Puhleaze. Secondly, this is what Game is all about – not having a wife who fucks Gorbachev. I believe it’s very possible to put a girl into such deep emotional conversion that it will never happen, or almost never happen, depending on the girl.
There’s nothing virtuous about my selfish and ruthless pursuit of my sexual preference. It does not interfere with my ability to fulfill the bad boy archetype. In fact, I am probably better at serial killer game than most.
@ahappiness
Game revolutionizes lives. Idiot. It’s like you’ve never read or met a single success story or even heard of inner game. Getting laid is a solution for male PSYCHIATRIC ILLNESS, ffs. Speaking of which, seems like you’re not getting enough.
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@Cinco Jotas
To briefly interrupt…
I hereby officially nominate Silvio Berlesconi as Alpha Male of the Century.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/picturegalleries/worldnews/7270159/Silvio-Berlusconis-women.html
Holy Shit. 73 years old.
Not Alpha of the Century.
Alpha of the Millenium. This guy just eats 10+ hot girls for lunch.
I don’t care how badly the corruption probes are going to anally rape this guy when he’s no longer prime minister of Italy.
Talk about Scoring.
I think all men, even his enemies, want to be him. It’s why they vote for this lying prick.
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Question, if anyone could answer:
If a potentially-slutty girl you’re trying to bang starts talking about the whore/stud “double standard”, should you suppress judgement? (i.e. play along in order to get in her pants)
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Roissy, please do something about the comment mod Lag… it reduces a comment to meaninglessness if the timing of it is destroyed.
As for GFBM… I like what he says… he is like a funny 9 year old kid who reads 4chan. His material seems highly redundant, 90% of which I covered as S.A.M. (other then tucker max) and I bust out laughing when he turns it into comedy gold.
I think about David Letterman’s quote “there is no off switch for the genius button” when I read his comments.
Xsplat, is right more often then not. I doubt he has fabricated and dissembled. My own biggest exploits with women, while they make his true tails pale in comparison, won’t be posted simply because an extreme anecdotal event rarely convinces the unbelieving within a contested debate.
The crux of the matter here can be summed up with the following quote
For the believer, no explanation is required.
For the skeptic, no explanation will suffice.
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So is this why you’re waiting to publish your book? You’re waiting for the peak?
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Why does this blog attract so many insecure followers? Is this common with all blogs?
Sorry, new to this.
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Beta candidate plus interesting article:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/23/fashion/23sperm.html?8dpc
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@Jay
Question, if anyone could answer:
If a potentially-slutty girl you’re trying to bang starts talking about the whore/stud “double standard”, should you suppress judgement? (i.e. play along in order to get in her pants)
Um. Dude.
???
Always play along with anything to get into her pants.
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@Anonymous – Oh yeah, and making anonymous comments, and then voting your own comment up …. yeah that’s real secure.
Bee-ach.
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While this is true in a sense, it should be noted that women are incredibly skilled at feigning interest if they think the guy is otherwise attractive. When otherwise hot men (another note: I, unlike most women, am particularly attracted to boys who are aesthetically pleasing to the eye. So substitute “hot” with “attractive” (whatever you want that to mean) for girls who are not me) wax poetic about random shit such as what’s under the hood of their car or the details of nanotechnology, women will just accept it as something they have to put up with in order to commence entrapment.
Basically, if you’re dominant and charismatic enough, it doesn’t matter what the fuck is coming out of your mouth because nobody is listening to the words you are saying. Similar to women with double d’s — nobody is listening, but sure, they’re “interested.”
—
OstroNova
All right, homie, I didn’t read your entire comment because it was like a thousand pages long and I have the attention span of an ADHD gnat, but I do agree with at least some of what you were saying up there RE: most people are douchey losers who will never accomplish anything worth writing a letter to mom about in their entire lives.
That said, I think it might be asking too much for some serious self-awareness here. Fatal flaw of humanity. So, give ’em a break.
Since said self-awareness is basically impossible, I guess the next best solution is MRA websites where all the boys take credit for Plato, Newton, and Michael Jordan, and Feminist websites where all the girls take credit for Joan of Arc, Marie Curie, and Angelina Jolie.
[editor: convenient formulation. except all the boys’ boys did 99% more of the heavy lifting to advance civilization than all the girls’ girls. fembots lose. again. they must be getting used to it by now eh?]
—
ahappinessexperiment
I am most curious about your taste in music.
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@Catala,
“women will just accept it as something they have to put up with in order to commence entrapment.”
An honest woman.
I do believe that crackling sound is the sound of icicles forming in hell.
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GBFM/Roissy – Life’s a gambol and some marriages are reasonably happy so I disagree that men shouldn’t get married.
[editor: poor reasoning. the odds of some gambles are so bad it makes sense to not even play. russian roulette with three chambers loaded is not my idea of a worthwhile risk.]
Just don’t marry a slutty barfly, hello? It’s the girl that won’t date you…won’t play your Game…fall into bed with you…that’s the one you want to try to get to know…get it?
The divorce laws do need to be changed though to be much more fair. If I was a man and I wanted to protect myself, just in case…I’d insist on a pre-nup and I would probably hide my assets somewhere.
[prenups can be shredded by a good lawyer. see: tiger woods. what needs to happen is a complete rework of the institution. raze it to the ground and build it back up. get rid of alimony and no-fault. child custody is 50/50 automatic, barring very unusual extenuating circumstances. dispense with the “i got used to a certain standard of living so hook me up with the gold-plated retirement plan” bullshit. drain the coffers of the divorce industry and their armies of lawyers.]
Thing is though…the men that worry the most about getting ripped off by women don’t actually have any money…lolzozlzlzlzlz!
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Allright JB, I’ve no quibbles with that attitude.
All I know is from my personal experience I had to:
1) get fucked over many times in order to harsh up enough to deal properly with women – ruthlessly
2) Date some girls I didn’t love or much care about, in order to know what it’s like to have hand
3) date a lot in order to learn to highlight the positives and use operant conditioning to do what you say is your goal – to get completely under the skin of the woman
These are skills I’m still honing. Like many guys here, I completely sucked at being man in my twenties. I find it hard to see how you can get from A to F without passing through the intermediate letters – many of which really suck.
Then again I don’t know your history. Maybe I’ve assumed too much based on your stated preference to hold out for mates and not date.
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Bon voyage Caucasian birth rate! I hardly knew ya…
Feminism = Lipstick Communism
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Gorby –
The hilarious thing about the Berlusconi divorce is that he met his now-divorcing wife when she was a stripper, and with her he cheated on his first wife! So after enabling the breakup of his first marriage, she’s now upset he’s got eyes for younger girls.
The solipsism of the entitled female rides again.
Jay,
“If a potentially-slutty girl you’re trying to bang starts talking about the whore/stud “double standard”, should you suppress judgement? (i.e. play along in order to get in her pants)”
Well, what do you want? If you are looking for an LTR, then she just failed the slut shit-test and is clearly not LTR material. If you want a good roll in the hay, there’s no reason to stop (unless you are pulling some paradox of trying to a have a one-night stand with a quality woman.)
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Roissy
Calm yo’self, G! I ain’t hate-a-latin’ on you.
[editor: i’m as calm as a sea breeze, girly. you should see me when i get a little worked up.]
I suppose what is most irksome to some is that the people who are on the internet pontificating on the general awesomeness of their race/sex/IQ level/economic class/subset of society are quite oft the ones doing nothing and taking credit for everything.
[according to the demographic stats for this blog, i attract a fairly large audience of those making over $100K/yr and those with grad school degrees.]
I am quite certain that Newton, were he alive and kickin’ this very day, would not be spending his precious gravity-discovering time griping and pandering to others in the blogosphere. Just a thought.
[i doubt newton went through life without griping about anything. griping and success aren’t mutually exclusive. in fact, they are often related.]
—
Gorbachev
Love, you make it sound as though I just admitted my most deepest manipulation secret. You wouldn’t kick a hottie out of bed for contemplating the latest line of Manolos, would you?
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Gorby, your posts have been very educational. It’s enlightening to see the transformation a guy makes from beta to alpha.
Knowing that women operate like monkeys swinging through a jungle (don’t let go of one vine until another is firmly grasped), I’m guessing your ex-wife was already seeing, if not sexing, the asshole she took up with after the divorce. So it is not without some mirth and sense of justice fulfilled that I’ve been reading about your respective paths following the divorce.
Do you have sufficient overlap amongst your circle of friends that she has a good handle on how you are dating women much younger/hotter than her? Not that you’d rub it in, but has she seen you with these women? The look on her thinning face must be priceless.
Has your transformation from beta to alpha registered in her mind? I.e., is she wondering why she ever left you in the first place?
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Xsplat:
Yes, women are qualified for many jobs. This has been the way for quite some time. In fact, I think they make better elementary school teachers, secretaries, and nurses than do men. Other jobs too, I’m sure. But these jobs don’t make a life, and most women do them until they find a husband or have kids, and then do them part time or leave them until after their kids are grown.
The point of my post was that, going forward, we are no longer going to see women earning 100k per year for working in some HR fluff job. There’s just no money. Jobs that 20-something urban girls flock to are generally worthless from a productivity standpoint, and are going to evaporate as the new economic reality hits. They will have to learn to appreciate a mechanic earning 40-80k per year.
Hopefully, these girls become realistic about their prospects, and the mechanic has some semblance of game and can demand that the girl pull her own weight in the relationship.
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Oh and Dave with the scene from Goodfellas.
Love it. Ray Liotta for the win. (Yeah, I am a girl after all.)
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Editor: Thanks for commenting. I think it’s Super-Alpha to gamble. All the action movies we love so much are where the super-Alpha faces incredible odds and WINS.
[editor: if by “super alpha” you mean “stupid”, then yes, you have a point.]
…wannabe Alphas are running scared…no offense but it’s kind of sad to me. Then, as I’ve mentioned before…men hit a wall age-wise too unless they have a lot to offer. Then what? Old age sick and alone. Who wants that? I’ll tell you who…your enemies…the ones behind the fiat dollars. THEY win, when you die old and alone and your assets revert to the state.
[we’re all dead in the end, so it won’t matter where your money goes. you won’t have any consciousness left to appreciate its allocation.
ps women hit the wall far sooner and harder than men. so solly!]
Out of FEAR, many men won’t commit.
[if by “fear” you mean “a smart assessment”, you have a point.]
Why don’t they figure out a way to game the GD system rather than hurt human beings including yourself.
[funny, i don’t *feel* hurt. of course, part of the reason for my jolly happy fun feelings is that i avoided the iron maiden of marriage.]
I 100% concur with your solution …that’s what REALLY needs to happen! It will eventually….I can hear a mighty roar coming from men who are sick and tired of the BS.
[do you agree or disagree with abolishing alimony and no-fault divorce? do you agree or disagree with automatic 50/50 child custody?]
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Roiss
Heh. I’m glad you’re chillin’. RE: Guys making over 100K — I don’t equate that with Newton-esque levels of success.
[editor: men making $100K+ are beating out 95% of men in the resource acquisition race. so your contention that they are griping to distract from personal failings is wrong.]
I’m glad you feel me.
P.S. The comment mod lag really does take away from the experience. Do you really get that much spam?
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“Yes, increased leisure time for women was a precondition for feminism. The thought is hardly new. But game and HBD and the collapse of the PC narrative may turn back the traditional gender roles clock without luddism. So it’s not perspicacious of you to assert that erasing 200 years of technological progress is the only answer. After all, how feminist is Japan?”
Umm, dude, the “PC narrative” doesn’t “collapse” by itself. You have to go through the institutions one by one. I’m suggesting that the easiest way to do so is to cut the head of the D.C. snake as it is tied in with perpetuating “the narrative.”
How feminist is Japan? Read the Gorbachev post on gaming Korean and Japanese chicks. The trend is unmistakeably in one direction. Rampant cheating, increasing feminization of men, etc. Give them enough time.
“our suggestion for an Italian warring city states model of the US is indeed painful. The object of government is to avoid the state of war, because it is the worst possible state save perhaps democide. Again, not very perspicacious.”
Yes, you said it. It beats democide. It will be required. The choice is slavery or war. Elementary.
“Secure state power is the best security. Pricking the pretty lies will take care of the nonsense social engineering, eventually. While I’m not against a peaceful revolution, yours is a nightmare.”
I’m not as sanguine about that. The enemy is vicious, ruthless and determined, and to defeat him requires getting serious about what kind of structure can be erected and withstand the inevitable storms.
It’s going to take serious planning and careful execution. Returning power to the states is a start.
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ttp://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1280077/Want-wife-happy-Be-miserable.html
Interesting. Wives are more likely to bolt if they are unhappy.
My theory is most women are boring (They bore themselves, which is why they need drama in their lives.) and so have fewer internal resources to make themselves happy than men. A guy can be happy with his hobbies and such.
Anyway, just more reason not to marry in haste.
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Let me clarify that I’m not advocating LUDDISM.
I’m merely pointing out that in absence of luddism, the warring state model is the only antidote to the inevitable decay. In fact, greater technological progress could eventually enable a whole new game. But not for decades.
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@ASDF
“At that point, women will need men, and hopefully there will be a generation of 40-something year olds who will tell the younger generation of women to smarten up and avoid the mistake that they made.”
But isn’t there a race against time? As the Word of Game spreads won’t it become harder to put the genie back in the bottle (i.e., get men to swallow the marriage pill)? If men, of any station in life, realize with a bit of swagger and roguish charm they can bag almost any girl they want then why on Earth would boys and men marry? Marriage was designed to entice (trick) men with the prospect of limitless sex with a pretty, young female (so civilization could work). But men can get sex now without the wedding. If the government wants to start a propaganda campaign to save marriage they better get the ball rolling. Otherwise, as the Word of Game spreads, all the kings horses and all the kings men won’t be able to put marriage back together again.
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Roissy
Most people on here are not griping like whoa. But, as it is with everything, everywhere — those who are making the most noise are the ones that everyone remembers. Since you’re just arguing against sweeping generalizations I didn’t make, I suppose there’s nothing more to sa–
—
Avinguda Diagonal
I knew I liked you for reasons other than your name.
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‘Cannon’s Canon
U
dumb ass nigger ‘aragorn’
“For all you guys who are worried about getting raped in divorce court, why not just get a fucking prenup?”
forbes put tiger at $600 million in may of 2009. they say he has rev’ed a billion and rev’s a hundred mill a year… at least before that scandal knobbed his advertising payouts.’
my comments weren’t directed at you so I don’t appreciate the insult, internet tough guy.
speaking of niggers, if there was anyone who ever deserved to get raped in divorce court it’s tiger. fucking toothless skanks while your wife’s home with babies doesn’t get my sympathy.
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Epoxytocin No. 87,
Catalan is nice. Freedom to roam Barcelona?
Not obscure in my eyes.
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“All the action movies we love so much are where the super-Alpha faces incredible odds and WINS.”
Movies are nice but in reality Delta Force types always do it the safest way possible.
Less movies, more books. Prevents brain rot.
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“I am quite certain that Newton, were he alive and kickin’ this very day, would not be spending his precious gravity-discovering time griping and pandering to others in the blogosphere. Just a thought.”
Well, how about Ben Franklin then? He’d be blogging like a m.f. fo sho, homegirl.
“Griping” is in the eye of the beholdress.
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omg these trheads get sooo boring with all the long pointless texts about butthex and no zlzolzlzlzlzl zlzolzl
hey i am thinking of sending an interview to miriam grossman and charlotte allen asking them about why they think it is good for girls to pursue undead vampire monsters who wear makeup and why they wirte about secretive tapers of butthex and repeat their six foot tall lies and cast them as alpha males over the guys bleeding to death in iraq in the unconstitutional necon wars zlzlozlzlz.. lozlzl zmaybe because vampires live off hte blood of others like living off the blood of the dying soldiers but never thanking them nor acknowledging them but only saluting butthexing secretive tapers of butthex and undead vampire monsyters bloduscikng who wear to much makeup?
omg sometimes i thin the usa is an expiremnt to see what life would be liike if neocn womenz runned the world zlozlzlzlz
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aragorn wrote:
1. Sorry, when a woman marries a superstar athlete, fucking around on the side is to be expected. If Tiger made a mistake, it was (i) getting married, and (ii) getting caught.
2. If Elin is able to circumvent this prenup, this will scare even more men away from marriage. Tiger had the best lawyers money could buy when drafting that prenup and if the courts are willing to disregard it, any man with assets and some common sense is going to say ‘no thanks’ to marriage.
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Tiger divorce, continued:
The best outcome of this case for women in general is the court honoring the prenup. But of course, women, drunk on the feminist Kool-Aid, will be cheering Elin on in her pursuit of half or more of his assets. Silly bitches won’t even realize they are shooting themselves in the foot . . . again.
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Sometimes it’s a hit, lzzollzz guy.
The above was a miss.
Allow me to punch you in the face with my fist full of constructive criticism:
1. Get new material! Right now you’re working very well with a combination of the following:
-Ben Bernanke
-Teh Fiat curency lzollzz
-Tukker Maxx
-Tuker Max and hhs lies about being six feet tal ozzzlz
-Charlotte Allen being a fan of Tucke Max
-Teh buttxex
-Secret Tapins of teh butsex
-Fake alpha males with feathers in their hats
-Real alpha males are the guys in Iraq or the fathers of yesterday
-Women as urinals
-How you wouldn’t kiss a urinal even though it hyaadn’t toched a cock lzolzzzl
-How someone is a sucker for maryng a womanz whn hundrds of other guys got her free when she was htter tightre yongr lzolzzz
-Jonah Golberg teh neocon with the ugly wife lozozzzzlz
Anyway, maybe you should add a few more things into the mix?
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Educated, professional women exposed to men working lower-paying jobs growing up are more likely to date them, said Amadu Jacky Kaba, a sociology professor at Seton Hall University in New Jersey. “When they see a hard-working garbage collector or different kinds of lower-level jobs, then they trust them,” Kaba said.
Guess who gets to control the relationship, in that situation?
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INTP:
“If men, of any station in life, realize with a bit of swagger and roguish charm they can bag almost any girl they want then why on Earth would boys and men marry?”
Because most people want kids at some point. Kids may be a drag when you’re younger, but most everybody I know who has grown kids is very happy. Happy for their company and proud of their achievements. Much happier than if they were just a lone wolf hunting down chicks (which at 60+ is not quite so easy anymore). Not to mention that civilization doesn’t work if we stop reproducing. If you really have game you can get a bit on the side anyways.
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Ofcourse it is easy for Catala to ask “Why are you guys so worried about marriage” since she is from Spain where the courts still somewhat fair when it comes to gender power balance.
A couple of years ago, a Spanish court ruled that Paternity Fraud was an actionable offense. They not only denied CS/Alimony to the cheating wife, they even made her pay the ex-husband damages.
http://www.fathersandfamilies.org/?p=1954
The trial court awarded the ex-husband 100,000 Euros in damages. When the whoring ex-wife appealed the ruling, the Appellate Court doubled the award to 200,000 Euros.
Now that’s what I call justice. Viva Espana! Viva Barcelona!
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… now compare and contrast the Spanish ruling to the USA, where the courts force cuckold ex-husbands to pay for children who aren’t theirs … even after the ex-wife gets married to the guy that she had the affair with:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/22/magazine/22Paternity-t.html?_r=2&ref=magazine
In the above Pennsylvania example the bio-dad (the lover), the bio-kid, and the bio-mom (the exwife) now live under the same houshold as a biologically intact family … meanwhile the cuckold ex-husband still has to keep paying child support.
The biologically intact family probably laugh over the dinner table every time they remember the mom’s cuckold ex-husband, and thank the Cuckold Justice System for giving them their daily bread.
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“Sometimes it’s a hit, lzzollzz guy.
The above was a miss.
Allow me to punch you in the face with my fist full of constructive criticism:
1. Get new material! Right now you’re working very well with a combination of the following:
-Ben Bernanke
-Teh Fiat curency lzollzz
-Tukker Maxx
-Tuker Max and hhs lies about being six feet tal ozzzlz
-Charlotte Allen being a fan of Tucke Max
-Teh buttxex
-Secret Tapins of teh butsex
-Fake alpha males with feathers in their hats
-Real alpha males are the guys in Iraq or the fathers of yesterday
-Women as urinals
-How you wouldn’t kiss a urinal even though it hyaadn’t toched a cock lzolzzzl
-How someone is a sucker for maryng a womanz whn hundrds of other guys got her free when she was htter tightre yongr lzolzzz
-Jonah Golberg teh neocon with the ugly wife lozozzzzlz
Anyway, maybe you should add a few more things into the mix?”
yah dude rights nbow i am soo far ahead of america that i needs 2 repeat myself a bit until everything gets caught up. then i’ll bring in the more advanced topics such as how a fiat currency metaphor is butthex as it butthexes the peole and debauches and desouls them zlozzllz.
for instance you seem like a more advanced studnet so you can read this:
http://www.springerlink.com/content/m523300j6612417k/
http://mises.org/daily/2221
“The linkage between character and money has everything to do with self-ownership. Aside from one’s body, the most personal property one may possess is the fruit of one’s labor. In a capitalist society, typically, this labor gets rewarded in the form of money — a paycheck. Hence, a person’s sense of value and self-worth is significantly influenced by how society values his labor — with money not only being that most personal asset, but also being the measuring rod. In days gone by, an individual developed character by learning that an honest day’s work would be rewarded with honest money (i.e., gold). Never has there been a more stable measure of value than gold.
In 1913, at the behest of the richest and most powerful banking elites in the world, an agent of social decay was established in the United States. Indeed, the Federal Reserve was founded. The stabilizing influence of gold money, gradually, was replaced by government fiat. Consequently, the character of Americans depreciated in lockstep with its fiat currency.
Paul Cantor describes this phenomenon in his provocative essay Hyperinflation and Hyperreality: Thomas Mann in Light of Austrian Economics. To wit:
Inflation is that moment when as a result of government action the distinction between real money and fake money begins to dissolve. That is why inflation has such a corrosive effect on society. Money is one of the primary measures of value in any society, perhaps the primary one, the principal repository of value. As such, money is a central source of stability, continuity, and coherence in any community. Hence to tamper with the basic money supply is to tamper with a community’s sense of value. By making money worthless, inflation threatens to undermine and dissolve all sense of value in a society.
Read more: Will The Federal Reserve Create The New Socialist Man? – Karen De Coster – Mises Daily http://mises.org/daily/2221#ixzz0ogMiFYS4
”
SEE? SECRETIVE TAPINGS OF BUTTHEX without the girls consent = Bernanke wiring billions secrelty withojut the peopel’s conthent which is why the necons love their secretive tapers of butthexers.
lozlzlzlzzlzlzlzlzlzllz zlzozlzlzllzlzlzlz zlzlzozozlzlz!!
the queen set “let the people eat cake,” and the neocns say “let teh people take cocks of their asses in secretive tapings fo butthex without the girl’s conthent.” lzozlzl!
& you forgot about the part of aging necon womenz promting vampires wearing makeup and undead bloodsucking mdoels as worthy pursuits of yourng girls when they aren’t getting stripped down as sevn year olds and made to dance like adult strumpets lzozlzlz by the beconos neocons
yah the funny funny is that conservatives todya are promoting lauding secretive tapers of butthex without the grils consent and repatring their PR lies in today’s conbservtaive magaizne instead of talking about say, Ruseel Kirk or T.S.Eliot or the permant things or the us marines or homer or dante as the latter do not make women’s gina’s tingle but secretive tapers of butthex doo. do doo. get it? buthhex & do doo lzozlzlzlzlz
lzozlzlzlzlzlzlzl
i mean what would bill buckley thin to know thta today’s conseravitevs are celebrating douchebags profiting off of secrteive taponsg of butthex stories and lauding it in their mags giving their pr lies mucho publicisity and conservative cred lzozlzlzz zlozzllzlz omg lzozlzl!
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Editor/Roissy–
Florida has been quite good on prenups. It will be interesting to see what happens.
I think her demand of $750 million is to make the public view her as being forgiving and the “good one” when she “settles for” 100 million plus huge child support. When Florida tends to do in the later case with super high earners I don’t know. Probably tons of court discretion.
As well that plus her holding out against a non disclosure agreement and the threat of a really big number puts more pressure on him through the prospect of his continuing loss of endorsement revenues.
If a court actually looked through the property settlement in his prenup, I think it would start to significantly cut down on the percentage of really high earning wealth man who do get married, rather than going the Matthew McConaughey route: two kids with a Brazilian model who’s living with him w/them, that he won’t marry.
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@biktopia
“Gorbachev, as you write and think makes me wonder,,, are you any better then your wife?
Okay, so this is going to be long. I’m only writing this because there’s a plaintive and astonished hurt in your voice. You sound extremely genuine, a little dismayed, and morally alarmed. I feel like you deserve a good, solid answer and few people (usually, me included) are going to give you one.
I’m trying to paint this all in the clearest and most positive light.
It’s for your benefit, Biktopia. You seem to be truly baffled as to why someone would conduct affairs in this manner.
Roissy: You’re all high and mighty because you weren’t suckered. You’re a cold bastard and I hate you for it. Keep it up.
Men divorced: You will recognize much of this.
Men not yet married: See your future.
Biktopia:
You have no idea about how women *actually* behave. Women just don’t know what fickle and hypocritical creatures they are. You don’t buy the whole “She lost interest in a Beta man” hypothesis? You don’t understand where the bitterness comes from? You don’t know the nature of the female. You can’t. You have an exceptional ability to rationalize any failing or error on your own part. It’s not your fault; you’re built this way. Men who know forgive you for it, eventually.
Like I said, I love women. I just know them better now.
This story could be the story of almost any of my friends, associates, coworkers, and schoolmates. I know many stories like this. But this one is more or less mine (some minor details are altered). The theme is usually the same.
Bedtime Story For You
I was raised by my truly wonderful, equalist mother to be a good mate. Treat women with respect. Always compromise. Avoid conflict. Be a Chivalrous Man, but not condescending. Be a Good Man, not just a Man. Women are to be adored.
(Counterpoint: My sister was a mortal terror, but that was OK, she largely got away with it until she started tarting around in highschool. Now: she has 3 kids by 3 different men, only one she was married to. They were all pricks.).
I had several good LTRs by the time I was in my mid-late 20’s, a few STRs, some flings. I met my ex, a wonderful, smart, capable woman the same age as me (not younger, as I might have chosen). We dated for 2 years. I was hard to convert, but was ensnared and became what her family thought was an ideal husband. Her mother thought I was a gift to her family. I loved her. Really. Not just because she was pretty; because she was a good person. A Good Woman.
I was the classic devoted, adoring Beta. I never argued; I considered her feelings at all times; I asked her opinion on everything, and we compromised based on a sensible middle ground. I cooked. I did 50% of the housework; we pooled our cash and I consulted her on even minor purchases. I was a skillful and patient lover, as was she, and we had an excellent sex life. She told friends she was glad she had the best of all worlds.
I had some annoying flaws: some weird friends; nights out with the guys, which she didn’t like (loss of control?); a penchant for buying cool toys; an unwillingness to pay for plastic surgery for her; not keeping up with the Joneses; weird work hours; but by her stated expectations, I was a good husband and her best friend, always.
She and I had lots of flaws. We were both human.
I was the same as most of the men I knew. As people, ew’re all very similar.
In every respect, ours was not better or worse than the marriages I saw friends having. They all seemed almost the same as mine: Happy, good sex life, well-educated partners, decent jobs, plans, holidays, etc.
MORE TO THE POINT:
She had carefully chosen me. This was EXACTLY the kind of relationship she had wanted. It fit her script perfectly. I tried hard to fulfill it. I envisaged a future with her. Kids. Etc.
Changeover
After 3-4 years, she started to get annoyed at small things. I spent more and more time enduring nagging over things I couldn’t affect or was too time-pressed to deal with. Friction started to develop. She became listless and uninterested in activities together (in retrospect, it’s possible she was cheating on me. Given my last few years of experience, I’m almost sure of it). Sex became less interesting. We tried to spice it up. I tried. She was the woman I loved.
It was bizarre: For a year, the more I tried to accommodate her (what she *told* me she wanted), the progressively more frustrated and annoyed with me she became. In hindsight, the pattern was obvious.
I became absorbed in household tasks; involved in activities outside home; I was domesticated; we went to counseling.
MY SHOCK
The counselor blames everything – absolutely everything – on me. It was like being in an interrogation room with lights pointed in my face. The counselor – PhD Harvard, still practicing – thought I was the root of all of our troubles. Seriously, when my wife acted out (threw a temper tantrum, smashed a dish), the counselor asked me what I could have done to help my wife emotionally. I couldn’t believe it: If I did something, it was my fault. If my wife did something, irrational and even insulting, it was also my fault.
I’m not making this up.
The counselor demonstrated that I was just inadequate.
(This was true, just not for the reasons she said).
We did counseling for 6 months. I went to every Cultural Revolution Self-Criticism Examination despite the fact that I had to cut work to do it because other times were inconvenient for my wife.
Fuck, I was such a retard. Seriously, I look back and think: I made patsies look like Dirty Harry.
I did *everything* that Oprah Winfrey and the Self Help industry demanded men do for their wives.
So after another 6 months, she actually said: I am no longer in love with you, but you’re still my best friend. We amicably divorced.
She had a string of lovers, who knows how varied. Two years later she told a common friend that they were mostly bad lovers, and were all assholes. Two I heard about seemed like fine blokes, actually, they both ended up with younger women who they married. I met one once. He seemed decent. But she had dumped him.
POINT: The Boredom of women always gets blamed on the Men. It balloons up into a myriad of problems. The troubles are subconsciously designed to test their men. And women ultimately blame ALL relationship problems on men.
Her friends sat around and consoled her with “There there, we understand, yeah” support; a bigger pack of Yes Women you never saw. My friends suggested all sorts of solutions *I* could use to fix this or that.
To their credit, one of her friends said: You’re insane. Stop being this way to your man. And one of mine said: Leave this insane woman. She’s slowly emasculating and killing you.
You see: This is what the Shit Tests are meant to do: to test you by emasculating you. If you fail, you’re not worthy to touch the woman.
Imagine 6 months of “I am such a failure”, post-divorce. Then a first fling, with a nice girl met in a restaurant of fond memory.
Then I say: I need to find another wife. I date a bit. I start to be less of a weenie. I discover Game.
And then everything changed.
Once I learned how to game a little bit, and just stopped caring what women thought, even became dismissive, the amount of female attention I got increased tenfold. It was unprecedented and bizarre.
Every word women said about what was supposed to make them happy was a lie. I proved it in practice.
I thought, … I’m not that good looking. So what the hell happened? This is fucking awesome. Woo Hoo!
At first it was just kind-of cool. I can have sex with several women! And then it became a couple of several. Concurrently. And then the women who never paid me a lick of attention talk to me. They’re hot. I can have sex with hotter women. Wow.
And I learn more game. I get rejected *a lot*. But I recover. One girl rejects me; another one rejects me, but nicely; another one says fuck me.
I see how women treat men: Callously and with the graceful predatory calculations of crocodiles.
I begin to get it.
It was only then that I really started to truly enjoy the company of women.
Really, I loved conversations, hanging out, the chase and the banter that got us into bed, lounging around and watching reruns, the NoNo of workplace affairs, my first married woman fling, occasional trips on holiday, an adventure or two. Debates about X or Y issue. Blowouts. Really nasty arguments. All punctuated with camaraderie and interesting sexual tension. With or without sex (eventually, mostly with).
Wow, women are smart and fun. Look how they run.
I try living in a few other countries for several years. Travel. Find out that in other countries, I can get away with insanity.
(Men: Go to N. ASIA or W. EUROPE. I.N.S.A.N.I.T.Y.)
My once beloved ex: A string of go-nowhere relationships. No kids. Up and down yo-yo. Privately admitted two years ago to an acquaintance of mine that divorce might not have been smart if she wanted children. Seeing older and less interesting men.
You spit ash around you, as you are still upset, suffering is a test of your true yin yang, how do you think it went for you?
It was a trial by fire. It purged the delusions from me.
I’m not bitter at all at my wife as an individual. I now realize she was under the chemical control of her instincts. If I’d have known, I would have realized that it was predictable.
I WAS inadequate. But the counselor didn’t know shit.
I should have gamed the living tar out of my wife.
I was supposed to keep her off balance. Ignore her. Control her. She’d have been having wild sex with me and looking after our kids for as long as I gamed her, if I’d known what the hell to do.
You ended up with wrong women, should good people pay your mistake? Makes me wonder, why you think you are eligible to hurt other people just because you have been yourself.
Which good people are paying for my mistake? OOOHHH,
You mean Other Women. Riiight.
– You mean the women who are married who enthusiastically sleep with me? An embarassingly large number now, in several countries. You could never, ever guess if you met them on the street. Unless you used the giveaway characteristic: Are they female?
– The women who sleep with me because they want to? They don’t want a LTR, or if they do, they don’t seem that upset when it doesn’t materialize.
– FWBs? How are they injured?
– Men? I’m not stopping them from doing the same thing. Geez, that’s why I read this stuff. *I* am other men. I need to make my game bulletproof. I need to test it all the time.
You see, this is female nature. And basic Male nature, too.
THIS is how men are supposed to interact with women.
Who, exactly, is being hurt?
My rule is leave her better than when you found her. Or at least do no (obvious) harm.
I lose respect for women if they start pissing on Beta males or their BFs/Husbands. Fuck me, fine. No need to insult the guy who labours for you. That’s a bit of holdover bitterness from my earlier days. I admit I can get petty about this.
The guys whose wives are screwing around? Their crime is not knowing anything about women. Get real. If it’s not me, believe me, it’ll be another guy. Or after the divorce/breakup. Same deal.
Don’t blame the guy who does it. Absolutely the blame should go to the wife who you have erroneously put up on a pedestal.
She does not belong there. She is a Human Female. Treat her like one. Stop treating her like a Statue of Goodness.
And now I get it. I see why the men who didn’t get trapped by women historically, the famous ones, the not famous ones, the authors and painters and politicians and the lotharios and the polygamists and basically any male with game could stand up and proudly say:
They Love Women.
I do. I think they’re absolutely awesome. Taken on their own terms, without masking over their basic instincts, they’re the best thing since sliced bread and baked cheese.
BUT:
MARRY them?
You have to game the crap out of women to keep them in line. It’s endless work. And that’s just to get them to live up to their own delusions of their own nature. Forget any actual ethical standards. For that you need to work even harder.
It’s all about “feelings”. To women, anything that “feels” right is right. There’s no objective moral standard that matters. You read this from conservatives and feminists, left and right and even the religious fundamentalists. It’s all the same: the justification is not a definition or a hard fact. It’s how it “feels”. As long as that is the method for making serious ethical or moral decisions, womens’ behaviour will seem arbitrary and corrupt and hard to reconcile with the public image of what women are supposed to be like.
You know, most of these professional PUAs, and semi-professional nihilistic cutthroat bastards like Roissy, and try-hard wannabees like me, and a zillion other guys just like me WOULD have been the beta: Pay taxes, produce offspring (hopefully my own), be the loyal husband and be dutiful. Sure, some of us would have been assholes, but some of us would have been great.
But a whole bunch of people screwed it up for us and for you.
Feminists said it was power for women to Embrace their Sexuality and fuck anything that they wanted to. They never considered what this would do to the men they might eventually have to mate with. And the ones that got left out.
Feminists of another generation said that women could have it all, and if there was something wrong, then follow their feelings and anyway all problems are the fault of Men. They still say this. It was always a lie.
Another generation of feminists said that marriage was a prison. So it became a different prison – for men. There is no benefit of an kind for men to get married in any Western country. If the men get some game, marriage becomes at best irrelevant and worst a trap. A trap with an explosive device near the exit.
One reason I’d marry: Children. That would be nice. It is to dream.
So I have no wish to hurt anyone.
People only get hurt when they mistake the nature of women, or men.
Women are deceitful, calculating, vengeful, sexually powerful, meretricious, clever, reactive, manipulative, political, self-deluding and narcissistic. They can seem schizophrenic.
They’re also charming, bright, energetic, resourceful, intelligent, talented and beautiful. And hugely sexy.
We men are pale shadows by comparison: Blunt, straight as arrows, manipulative, focused, geared for action, politically volatile, aggressive, naturally polygamous, arrogant, emotionally weak, and predictable. Often dangerous.
Learn to accept it, with everything it implies.
But for all their faults and self-deceptions, women are, in every way, the very flower of humanity.
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@Chainring
Knowing that women operate like monkeys swinging through a jungle (don’t let go of one vine until another is firmly grasped), I’m guessing your ex-wife was already seeing, if not sexing, the asshole she took up with after the divorce. So it is not without some mirth and sense of justice fulfilled that I’ve been reading about your respective paths following the divorce.
It does occur to me from time to time. I felt guilty at first. Hm. But they’re just so hot. And interesting. And fun. Argh.
Do you have sufficient overlap amongst your circle of friends that she has a good handle on how you are dating women much younger/hotter than her? Not that you’d rub it in, but has she seen you with these women? The look on her thinning face must be priceless.
Has your transformation from beta to alpha registered in her mind? I.e., is she wondering why she ever left you in the first place?
She knows many of the same people. We see each other occasionally. We’ve both aged, but her less well.
She’s seen me with MUCH younger women. Some were hotter than her. Some were not. I know she thinks I’m being immature for sleeping with younger women.
I’ve never corrected her. I just sleep with them.
No need for revenge, really. It all worked out rather well.
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@ASDF
“Because most people want kids at some point. Kids may be a drag when you’re younger, but most everybody I know who has grown kids is very happy. Happy for their company and proud of their achievements. Much happier than if they were just a lone wolf hunting down chicks (which at 60+ is not quite so easy anymore).”
Most WOMEN want kids. Even when females are very young girls they express a desire for reproducing (e.g., baby dolls, playing house). Males, generally, are not afflicted with baby fever or baby rabies. Men will take to the kids after he sees they are his and he has spent some time bonding with the kids, but before then men don’t experience hallucinations about having babies (like women undergo).
Marriage, a civil union, is not necessary for kids. Only heterosexual copulation is required for making babies. For example, see the black urban underclass in America or the entire continent of Africa.
@ASDF
“Not to mention that civilization doesn’t work if we stop reproducing. If you really have game you can get a bit on the side anyways.”
There will be reproduction, but it won’t be high quality people reproducing. See Idiocracy.
Western Civilization is ceasing to work because of fall-out from feminism (Lipstick Communism). In fact, any civilization which grants full rights to women (perpetual emotional adolescents) has announced its apex and subsequently deteriorates into a backwater. Why should our, increasingly, [1] anti-liberty and [2] declining birth-rate culture be preserved? Women CHEER the loudest for the police state shackles clamped on us, all the while, failing in their biological imperative to demographically preserve our civilization (by having few or no babies). You want to preserve that? The cultural elite decided to change our society about 40+ yrs ago, for the worse.
Game is an evolutionary adaption by the common man to the social changes wrought by the social rulers.
BTW, if the west devolves into a 3rd world backwater (due to the demographic suicide wrought by feminism) western man may very well regress to the pre-civilization outlook that offspring = achievement. Because the first world civilization will be gone and making babies (bigger tribe = more power) will be the only way to feel he has accomplished something with his life.
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[editor: men making $100K+ are beating out 95% of men in the resource acquisition race. so your contention that they are griping to distract from personal failings is wrong.]
$100K in DC is middle class, n’est-ce pas?
[editor: only 6.24% of american individuals make over $100K. it’s probably a little higher for men if you break down by sex, but not much higher.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_income_in_the_United_States%5D
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aragorn,
“For all you guys who are worried about getting raped in divorce court, why not just get a fucking prenup?”
Putting aside the fact that they can be ignored if the judge feels like it, the snotty advice to “get a prenup” is begging the question – it presupposes an unsound premise. You are positing that marriage is all well and good, and you can take care of a possibly nasty complication with a legal attainder.
The problem is that most of us here are figuring out that if you have to go through an extra legal process to keep yourself from being financially ruined by the institution of marriage, then marriage per se is a broken system and a prenup is not a functional solution.
“Thing is though…the men that worry the most about getting ripped off by women don’t actually have any money…lolzozlzlzlzlz!”
This is completely logical. If you don’t have a lot to your name, and you have to hand half of it over, your life is basically over – you’ll be bankrupt. If you are a rich guy and lose half, you are still doing OK.
Not to mention the fact that if you don’t have any assets and you are not planning to protect yourself for the contingency of divorce, you are saying you don’t think you will amount to anything.
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“To briefly interrupt…
I hereby officially nominate Silvio Berlesconi as Alpha Male of the Century.”
As for all the Berlusconi worship: if you want to worship totalitarian dickheads go right ahead.
I bet Saddam Hussein got a ton of hot pussy. How about Saddam for alpha of the century? How about Hitler?
Since, as we all know, girls dig assholes, I bet all the Jew girls in Europe were rubbing their clits thinking about Hitler at night!
Idi Amin got him a ton of gina juice!
The more evil the motherfucker the more alpha: but what sort of pussy faggot worships these guys?
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Someone said “my theory is most women are boring.”
I know many intelligent, bright women. But they are exceptions. I find most young urban women unbelievably boring and self-obsessed. I don’t need to talk to a Rhodes scholar but one’s idea of conversation can’t be Access Hollywood, People magazine, Coach purses and Bravo. No hobbies, no passions, no vocation, and not very open minded to new things, just concern for material comfort and showing off to the sisterhood.
As I’ve said on the Roissy board before, I used to think I had a major lack of talent with women. I’ve come to the conclusion that although I did have some game shortcomings, I just found most women I talked to boring, and they couldn’t keep my attention long enough for me to develop any success with them.
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@ahappinessexperiment
“Full disclosure here: i’m a complete loser. always have been.”
LOL!
Well, at least you are honest with yourself!
Now, why do you think you are a loser?
Let’s see, you say you like to be alone, get drunk and listen to music. You say you don’t like “metros” who have fashion sense and like to talk to women. You say you are a hater of game. You say you have no friends.
In my honest assessment here is why you are a loser: because you want to be one.
“One’s identity is their mindset. It is formed over years and years, and is as is malleable as rock. i.e., yes, it can change, but it will take many years.”
You sound like you need Prozac or something.
Have you gone to see a doctor?
Reading your blog, it sounds like you are going die of cirrhosis of the liver if you keep up your drinking.
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@ahappinessexperiment
As for all the Berlusconi worship: if you want to worship totalitarian dickheads go right ahead.
Um, … the guy pulls hot 10+ Italian women like other guys order coffee. I do pretty well, but at 73 this guy makes me look Omega. And he does it with cameras on him 24/7.
This guy may be a monstrous dickhead, but does he have good taste in women or what?
Say what you want about him, sure he belongs in prison. But he has panache.
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Greatbooksformen writes:
“sidewinder the vagina writes “Reason 2 – disagree. Girls want to get married, and they always will. …..
LZ?OZLZLZOZLZLOZLL!L!O!O!O!
fuck you you fucking fucktard.
men get absofuckinglutely NOTHING out of marriage these days.
they can get hotter/fresher/tigher pussy outside marrage
they can have kids outsida marriage
they can get meals and cooks and maids outsida marriage
they can get firends and converstations outside amrraige
all while enjoying thier hard earned cash
”
I agree with the above quoted – although stated harshly nevertheless it is TRUE. Men get nothing from marriage except enslavement. Again, there seems to be a lot of politically correct fantasy being entertained here about marriage.
The reason money may not be so important is because there will be less of it floating about. The United States is fast becoming a 2nd World country, slated to then become a 3rd world wasteland.
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INTP:
“Males are not afflicted with baby fever”.
Maybe not, but most men want to leave a legacy, or a few mini versions of themselves.
“Marriage, a civil union, is not necessary for kids. Only heterosexual copulation is required for making babies. For example, see the black urban underclass in America or the entire continent of Africa.”
You proved my point. Blacks don’t have marriage, and just look at them. Same with the white underclass. Marriage is necessary for family stability.
I don’t want to maintain the current liberal status quo. I want to go back to the way it was 100, or even 50 years ago (minus universal suffrage), but to do that we can’t just leave the breeding to the dullards. Conservatives need to marry conservatives and start building their own society.
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gorby, if i were the richest man in a backward socialist coubtry i could get all the hot chicks too. keep in mind he is doing his best to keep italy backward and socialist.
as to his taste in women: we all have the same taste in women. i believe that is a running theme of this blog.
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Gorbachev, thanks for writing you story.
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feel da goldman sax tuckermax butthex
when the prices begin to rise manifiesting bernanke’s lies
feel da necocon neocks deep in your ass
as they videotape for tehir econ class
feel da goldman sax tuckermax butthex
when the marriage breaks up as they dangle fiat dollars
trianing lawyers and judges to transfer welth from men
if they love their children tehy go to the pen
feel da goldman sax tuckermax butthex
when you just can’t trust noone no more
they will not rest until we all feel teh neocon hex
until every last little girl is a whore
until every last 30 year old girl’s anus is sore
feel da goldman sax tuckermax butthex
goin deep, deep, deep up your ass
as grade inflation all teh suckups do pass
all teh sycophantic womenz lusting for bernanke fiat cash
as hje trains them to transfer a man’s physical property stash
feel da goldman sax tuckermax butthex
as they teach womenz to lust after vampires and bloodsuckers
to forget about our heroes dying in necon wars
and to encourage tehir wives to be whores
feel da goldman sax tuckermax butthex
every time ya turns on the tv
a sthe womenz running simon and schuster
says that tucker maxis all a man can be
wiring him hundreds of thousands in fiat cash
dripping with butthex sauce
and then girls
wonder
why they have a rash
feel da goldman sax tuckermax butthex
the secretive tapings without the girl’s consent
as bernanke wires his friends billions
and your house to the banks is sent. lzozlzl
lzozlzlzlzlz!!
omg that tuckermax goldmansax butthex felt sooooo good and i want more and more and more so treat me like a whore, but like where have all teh good men gone?
lzozlzlzlzl
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Excellent post, Gorbachev.
“Women just don’t know what fickle and hypocritical creatures they are. ”
I would characterize it as following: they have their moments of lucid, accurate self-evaluation but then dust themselves off and continue undismayed.
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Puma: “Viva Barcelona”
Appreciate your thoughts. If you want really to express this thought in a way that Barcelonins would understand, say “Visca Barcelona”
Yours is like saying “long live Montreal” in english — appreciated but ironically
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what baffles me about all the women bashing on this site is this: you thought women werent hypocritical liars in the first place? what ever mad u think that? isnt that sort of obvious by third grade? girls are no worse than guys. i dont se why evryone needs to pile on with the girl bashing.
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humans are a virus in sneakers. if u dont get that u werent paying attention in high school.
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“girls are no worse than guys.”
Well, actually they ARE in certain ways. That’s the whole point.
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“what baffles me about all the women bashing on this site is this: you thought women werent hypocritical liars in the first place? what ever mad u think that? isnt that sort of obvious by third grade? girls are no worse than guys. i dont se why evryone needs to pile on with the girl bashing.”
This is equal time. if you want to hear about how bad men are, you can watch Dr Phil, Oprah, Maury Povich, read any number of advice columns, watch American sitcoms, sit in an American family law court…
As evidenced by posters here and elsewhere, a lot of guys are invested in a Victorian fantasy that women are the higher, perfect sex and that men are “civilized” by women. In fact it appears to be the opposite – matriarchal subsocieties are dysfunctional and have frustrated, out of control male populations. Breaking them out of this fantasy is crucial for their happiness.
But we should all be warned…red pilling can be bad for your psyche. It is disturbing to see the world as it is.
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so gorby, you anwered my question. you are the sort of pussy faggot to worship dictators. why dont you go suck off hugo chavez?
good choice in moniker, btw
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Badger, maybe you have a point. i dont watch daytime tv so i dont know much about the guy bashing. i only watch south park and hbo so dont personaly see a culture of guy bashing. i have been to family court but luckily i live in a state ith no alimony so no problem there.
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@ASDF
Maybe not, but most men want to leave a legacy, or a few mini versions of themselves.
Modern civilizations provide other ways for men to leave a legacy. Men can write “Great Books for Men”, build great companies, attain great personal achievement, etc. But that creates another problem. If men are off doing all that self-enriching cerebral work, and not raising stable families, then the civilization dies via the demographic suffocation of its high-value gene pool. In other words if great men are too busy to raise great offspring then where will the great men of tomorrow come from? That didn’t used to be a problem under Marriage 1.0 (every man was pretty much guaranteed a wife + be king of his own castle). Now, under Marriage 2.0, not so much. Marriage now officially sucks for men. Bye, Bye West.
@ASDF
You proved my point. Blacks don’t have marriage, and just look at them. Same with the white underclass. Marriage is necessary for family stability.
The RIGHT type of marriage and the RIGHT people getting married is necessary for marital and societal stability. Neither is the case today.
Marriage 1.0 is necessary for stability. Marriage 2.0, our current still-born botched abortion product of Feminism, is long-term dating with an obscene divorce rate and trifecta payout for women. Marriage 2.0 is the FARTHEST thing from stability. Marriage would have to roll back to pre-1960 standards, along with the rest of the culture, for it be remotely viable. Though, as I mentioned earlier, with the Word of Game (i.e., how to manipulate the primal, sub-conscious minds of females to mate with them at will) spreading virally amongst males of all ages it may now be too late to save marriage.
@ASDF
I don’t want to maintain the current liberal status quo. I want to go back to the way it was 100, or even 50 years ago (minus universal suffrage), but to do that we can’t just leave the breeding to the dullards. Conservatives need to marry conservatives and start building their own society.
The cultural elites have different plans. They seek to consolidate their power under 21st Century Feudalism (i.e., destroyed middle class, ignorant but happy drone workers, 1% controls 99.9% of the wealth). High-technology serfdom.
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main reason i dont by into theory of game: how do u fake masculinity? however masculine u r is going to evince itself per reality.
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“i have been to family court but luckily i live in a state ith no alimony so no problem there.”
What state is that? I might have to vote with my feet.
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@ahappinessexperiment
main reason i dont by into theory of game: how do u fake masculinity? however masculine u r is going to evince itself per reality.
Reverse the sexes. Then it will make sense. If a female is experiencing a dry spell with men all she has to do is practice Game. Girl Game.
Use cosmetics to make herself appear younger than she actually is. Use clothing (costuming) to make her appear girly (or even as an adolescent) and showcase her female physique. Act in a helpless, feminine, slightly dipsy manner that appeals to the protective and mating sex drive of males. And, very important, try not to revert into a ball busting bitch at any point during the charade. Otherwise it will blow her cover. The result? Men will find her VERY approachable and express interest in her. If she wants to marry all she needs to also do is say she loves cooking for her man and taking care of his every need — no questions asked. She will have marriage proposals that evening.
Note, doing the aforementioned is 180 degrees counter to how Western females are socialized from birth by the culture. In the 1950s women had perfected the coy, feminine arts. Now almost no woman can pull it off (at least not while she is young, hot and salivating at a world full of alpha cocks to ride)
Game for men works the same way. Just a complementary tool set of tactics that work on the opposite sex.
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“Women just don’t know what fickle and hypocritical creatures they are. ”
pleeeeassseee…
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Badger, just do a little researsch. awhole lot of people are voting with their feet here.
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@gorby-
great post, and this
is a great line for the ages.
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to here, i mean. hint: it’ds a big state.
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@Avinguda Diagonal
I forgot the difference of the Catalan language. My bad.
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@ahappinessexperiment
“main reason i dont by into theory of game: how do u fake masculinity? however masculine u r is going to evince itself per reality.”
You don’t get it…90% of when men learn from blog/tapes/game seminars etc….
ISN’T how to fake who they are….
BUT…how to understand and respond to the situations they’re in…it’s more about understanding the female psyche…why women respond to certain behaviour, why do nice guys get less women than bad guy…when a woman says X…what does she really mean?…also why are women so mean to nice guys….
NO ONE can consistently fake who they are…if this material required you to do that….it wouldn’t work…
For example many of Roissy’s posts regarding Betas, Herbs and Alphas give men incite into how women see men…which is different than how men see other men….
this incite helps men understand where they need to grow, change or develop…
Again NO ONE can fake who they are consistently….
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and gGorby, why choose a name like THAt, gorbacsoV??!! Cheeez, there is not an inch similarity. 😦
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Grampa said:
“The point of discussing marriage and divorce on this blog is to point out, to the young men, the drawbacks of marrying young. Running game, and enjoying your youth, and building yourself up economically is how you should go through your 20′s and 30′s. Getting into a long term monogamous relationship before 40 seems crazy looking back on it. Learn to socialize, get educated and experienced. This includes learning game. When you hit 40, after having lots of life experience, including experience with women, you might be ready for marriage.”
–even as a woman, I completely agree. Don’t marry young. Fuck around, find yourself, hit your forties, find a gal ten years younger than you and then marry if you’re wanting to. I would never take a guy under 38 seriously as a long term because I wouldn’t trust that he had gotten all of his oats sown. Besides, once a man knows himself through life experiences and accumulation of knowledge, he’s at his sexiest.
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“main reason i dont by into theory of game: how do u fake masculinity? however masculine u r is going to evince itself per reality.”
One’s level of masculinity isn’t fixed. I’ve commented on this before.
Sure, there’s ceiling, but many haven’t reached it and could improve their lives tremendously by doing so.
The basic program here is:
1) Erase the beta socialization
2) Increase levels of testosterone through physical, daring, masculine activities. Strength training, sports, etc.
Scientists say, “gee, we don’t know whether aggression is caused by testosterone or produces more of it.” Perhaps that’s because it’s not a causal relationship but a feedback cycle.
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Badger
If you turn on your faucet to allow a small stream, you’ll see the water flow as a thin stable ribbon. Turn it up to medium and it splashes incoherently. Turn it up full and it is again in a coherent and stable flow. The emotional life also goes through these transitional phases as we adjust to greater inputs of truth.
We are healthier and happier with a greater flow. In the end.
The learning period is expected to be fucking painful.
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ahappinessexperiment,
I disagree with much of what you say here, but other people have been doing a good job of making the points I would make, so I haven’t actually criticized you yet.
But now that you’ve shown your ignorance of politics, a subject I have personal and professional experience with, I have to say you are being an idiot.
You cannot seriously compare the leader of a democratic country whose party was fairly elected (three different times, with other parties in power in between, so they obviously weren’t rigging the elections because they weren’t in power at the time) with Hitler or Saddam Hussein or Idi Amin. Hussein and Amin used the power of the state they dominated to murder people and rape women. Hitler, although he may not have raped anybody or cared about women much, is on the shortlist for alltime evillest person ever.
Berlusconi, on the other hand, is a rich SOB with political savvy who is no more corrupt than the average Italian Prime Minister (arguably less so since he has always been acquitted or gotten off on technicalities). Furthermore, he is not even a socialist as you say — his party has always been to the right of its main rivals.
Your reference to Jews was disgusting. You need to discipline yourself to only post replies at a time when you are not emotionally upset.
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xsplat,
That faucet analogy was brilliant, and genuinely deep. If you are weaker than the forces around you your path is smooth because you must follow the flow with a limited number of possible branch points; if you are stronger than the forces around you you can make your own path; but the transition is going to involve a period of contention between forces of comparable magnitude which leads to chaotic behavior.
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Badger Nation
Texas is an example.
It’s not quite true that they have no alimony period even in very long marriages, but they really disfavor awarding it under state law there and only rarely is.
It’s limited to at most three years for a long marriage in which she hasn’t worked for a substantial time leading up to the divorce. It’s generally not ordered paid at all if the wife is working full time even if for much less money or if she’s getting child support, or if she’s getting a good lot of property in the settlement.
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anouk and Grampa,
If marriage makes sense for men in their late thirties or older it can also make sense for younger men who know what they want. There is general agreement on this blog that if marriage is a good idea for men at all it is only because it creates the best environment for raising kids; but please note that if you want kids, it is better to start having them young so that you have plenty of energy for them and can also enjoy your 50’s and 60’s without still having kids at home (and have grandkids at a time when you can fully participate in their own growing up).
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I have to say, for me red pilling HAS NOT been disturbing. Red pilling has been a great relief because it has removed the tremendous psychic burden of cognitive dissonance.
I think back to my pre-teens (ages 6 to 11) — I was a real player then. A natural alpha. The teen years just messed me up something fierce. You know certain things instinctively but your socialization/indoctrination conflicts with it. And it’s easy to let it because it preys on your weaknesses.
Red pilling creates maximum coherence. You actually start to believe your lying eyes again.
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I guess I have to amend: the only disturbing aspect of red pilling has been this sense of shame at not being strong enough to fully trust one’s perceptions.
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polly,
saying berlusconi is to the right of his rivals is like saying trotsky was to the right of his.
u can call italy a democracy if u want to….
if u r disgusted by hitler that is hypocrisy on your part. men have evolved to prove their power through their evil. u cant out of one side of your mouth defend belusconi and out of the other say u r disgusted by hitler.
hitler merely took things further but the male impulse was the same. we are all hitlers. why not admit it?
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kissinger wouldnt have fucked starlets if he hadnt spilled a lot of blood.
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i dont buy the thesis here that women should marry young. what good does it do them when they get older? how is a 40 year old married woman whose husband isnt attracted to her any longer better off than a single 40 year old woman?
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“hitler merely took things further but the male impulse was the same. we are all hitlers. why not admit it?”
We aren’t all HITLERS. We’re all Nietzscheans to some extent.
Are we gonna have to give you a “you can’t handle the truth” type speech? Western democracy today is a cultural Marxist soft tyranny everywhere. How is Berlusconi worse than some British technocrat hack or a Spanish socialist “green jobs” wrecker? You really need to wake up and the smell the coffee here.
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[quote]I don’t want to maintain the current liberal status quo. I want to go back to the way it was 100, or even 50 years ago (minus universal suffrage), but to do that we can’t just leave the breeding to the dullards. [b]Conservatives need to marry conservatives and start building their own society.[/b][/quote]
No time like the present.
Get off the coasts. The middle-America/Christian/immigrant/whatever set has it’s flaws. Big ones. But if you want a decent woman to marry, for life, that’s where you’re going to find one. If you’re smart, she’ll be one that won’t screw around, and will want and encourage you to be alpha. And as alpha, you will find your woman somewhat pliable, so you can train out some of the bigger flaws.
Modern society is fucked, but something must come after. You folks all seem most interested in a hedonistic ride down, and frankly, I can understand why you’ve made that choice. If and when you decide to contribute to the future, find a nice, smart, moral, corn-fed girl, one that hasn’t been fed the feminism bullshit, and screw her brains out. Crank out the kids and train them well. No time like the present. Don’t wait for someone else to do it for you.
I live in the middle of nowhere. I homeschool, not for religious reasons, but because the modern education system churns out brainwashed retard after brainwashed retard. Anyone with a high school education and good intentions can do better. There is no TV in my house, because pop culture ruins young minds. My wife and I are faithful to each other, and no one will ever convince me that banging whore after whore is better than a good sound marriage.
The trick is to find a good sound woman for a good sound marriage. I think you folks are looking in the wrong place.
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Roissy, can you get rid of the comment ratings? They really slow down reloads of posts with 100+ comments, and that, in turn, makes the blog comments section a more inefficient forum for discussion than it already is.
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PA was at an industry event and noticed one guy doing what Mystery advises against: looking “tough” or “hard” in a room where all other guys, whether alpha or beta, were friendly and conversational
What the hell were you doing at in industry event????? Aren’t you married with a kid? Your wife is a gorgeous Eastern European woman who gives you no problems so what gives?
and here I was thinking beyond your SF ways, you’re a nice guy.
*chic noir shakes head*
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FYI Noscript blocks the ratings.
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And obviously the quote tags don’t work like I thought they did. Sorry about that.
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Original JB I think back to my pre-teens (ages 6 to 11) — I was a real player then. A natural alpha. The teen years just messed me up something fierce
Darn son, you’re the first str8 man I’ve “seen” you the world “fierce” in a long time. Stop watching so much Tyra Banks and Top Model.
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What the hell were you doing at in industry event?????
“Industry event” is a work thingie.
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?&l how is berlusconi worse than some british technocrat?
i suggest u look at the economy of britain and then look at the economy of italy.
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Reading comments by people like Gorbachev and xsplat makes me ask myself: Why bother?
A good woman, who is so rare today, is supposedly what I should look out for if I decide to settle down.
Yet how am I to know if it is a good one? All these examples that these men have cited show what not to tolerate in a woman.
One big ass red pill indeed.
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WOW,
As a woman I must say I have read all of the posts here. Yep. I am delusional. I thought there were still a great number of emotionally healthy males left. This site takes (or rather this post) takes woman hating to a whole other level.
I’m curious about a few things. Do you not think at some point women will also ADJUST to this GAME – or at least the emotionally healthy, bright, women of the world? Are you males looking forward to the day of low caliber women to choose from over high quality (b/c at some point this kind of behavior will spawn a great number of low caliber women) What do you think will happen then?
Yeah yeah. You can screw an infinite amount of young 20 something’s until you are blue in the face but at some point that gets just as tiring and old as many of you claim marriage does. With that comes its issues as well.
Do you think at some point when you may come across those ABUNDANT 30 something or over women who have been used to being single and “screwing their dogs” (because they are pretty much worthless in the dating/mating game after 30 as many of you suggested) and has adjusted to her single life with the nice money she’s making (since Roissy did point out that women are now are increasingly becoming the moneymakers), and you are now over 35 yourself, never married or having not been in a LTR for a minute that she won’t question your maturity and deem you UNDESIRABLE? Do you honestly think at some point if women over 30 are being skipped over and passed over in abundance by males (especially those in 30’s and 40’s) for younger women that it will not come back to bite these very males later? How hard do you think it will be for women in general to adjust to this change at being stepped over for 20 something’s by finding other ways to complete her happiness that will eventually have nothing to do with male companionship?
Since its been pointed out that women are now in the prime money making positions these days, (most likely those abundant useless 30 year olds and over), do you think eventually after being left out of the dating/mating game (because of all the influx of competition from fickle 20 something year olds) that they may find other avenues of pleasure that will not include male companionship. And while now you may be thinking “who the fuk cares”, When you need emotional sustenance that you can only get from a WOMAN what will you do? When you start aging, getting old and tired and are over 35 and are no longer that hot whipper snapper that 20 something year old women want to screw then who are you going to go after? When you want kids by a REAL WOMAN and not some easily bangable 20 something that you’d question on their parenting abilities – what do you do? Remember after some time, if women over 35 are out of the dating/mating/sex game they will eventually ADJUST to this lifestyle someway/somehow and no longer find themselves in need of male company or companionship after doing without for so long. I just read a news report on how Many women today over 30 who are single and not finding marriage prospects are even now going to SPERM BANKS to fulfill the need for reproducing.
END OF PART 1
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They will even deem unmarried males over 35 as undesirable. I know I do. Okay I still give males in mid 30’s a pass but over 40and not married brings up a red flag to MOST attractive, single non children having women. I’d rather go at it alone than settle for some old fart who walked by attractive 30 something and 40 something year old women to screw 20 somethngs until HE is no longer desirable. Or some guy like Gorbachev who has serious baggage. Psssh! Then what do you do? I see it happening already. There are some males who can truly go through life screwing, marrying and mating with 20 year olds till the day they die. However, most males can’t do that for a variety of reasons (because you also AGE) and will eventually find themselves in need and want of a woman on his emotional and physical level.
I’m just curious if any of you “ALPHA MALES” here have thought out the consequences of your actions and hatred towards women (especially those over 30).
I guess I am just thinking of all the things that ARE eventually going to catch up to many of you and wonder how you will adjust. Women are smart and resourceful. We will ALWAYS find ways to fulfill ourselves. And women ALSO have an easier time adjusting without male companionship and sex than men can or do.
If screwing 20 something year old women and never marrying were so great and easy ALL men would be doing it and would HAVE been doing it. But the fact is, we all know where that gets you in the end.
Yeah yeah you can rag on the over 30 something year old women, but in the end when your 20 something year old who you can easily bang and do whatever you want with can’t provide the emotional sustenance that MOST EMOTIONALLY ADULT HEALTHY MALES NEED then you lose.
I’m just trying to paint the picture for action/results/consequences.
Its amazing how many of you posting can’t se the forest for the tree in your eyes. You honestly believe that the only to suffer in this “game” are women? And women over 35? LOL. Women over 35 today are adjusting just fine. If we want kids we can get them. And many are choosing to go at it alone than to s4ttle for a bunch of emotionally ill equipped insecure shallow “men” who hate women. We’re already making the money so that’s covered.
All I can say is this. For actions there are results and in some cases, consequences. And while many are pointing out the consequences of feminism towards women and marriage, believe me fellas your day is coming too. Your future generation of males will be pointing to the woman haters like yourselves saying how you’ve ruined it for them. And so the cycle continues.
As long as the men on here realize that, one day (usually when its too late) you will (and upcoming generations of males) will suffer with this kind of mindset and ultimately lose out b/c of your BITTERNESS then I guess its okay to feel and do the things you do.
It’s a lose / lose for both genders. How unfortunate.
*shrug*
[editor: that’s all great, but there’s just one thing we need to clear up…
do you do anal?]
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as soon as you see the mother of all female shaming words “wow” you know some cunt’s about to unbidden flap her worthless pixels all over the place.
[editor: lol. the tell-tale ‘wow’.]
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Jules, my synthesis of understanding of male and female human condition has led me to the working strategy of fulfilling both my male dual needs for romance and variety, and the female dual needs for security and bad boy thrill.
I think many fail to notice that men have very strong romantic needs, and that if we fail to meet these we don’t feel fulfilled. The question becomes how to meet these while not getting played by women. Played by either being domesticated, or cheated on.
I’ve found two solutions that work – keeping a few girlfriends and fuckbuddies and occasional flings, and serial monogamy. Even with very bonded monogamy I no longer view to lifetime bonding. It’s always step by step, day by day.
This seems both realistic and emotionally satisfying. You can have both.
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PA “Industry event” is a work thingie.
Sorry, I thought you meant a “game” convention.
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[editor: that’s all great, but there’s just one thing we need to clear up…
do you do anal?]
loluzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz!
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Seems to me like men are making the best of a shitty situation. This site is evidence of what happens when the deck is so stacked that men see themselves as having nothing to gain by playing by the rules of a feminized society. Might as well enjoy the ride then, no? How many of these guys have ever even SEEN a healthy marriage? I bet most of them don’t even know what they are missing.
The feminists fucked it up years ago, and now come back pissed off that they are forced to accept the long-term consequences of their actions.
Boo fucking hoo.
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“It’s a lose / lose for both genders. How unfortunate.”
You started it, you feed it, you push it, you maintain it. Men react to it.
If at some point you decide you’re seriously interested in fixing it, let me know. I’m guessing you won’t like the answer.
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My theory is most women are boring (They bore themselves, which is why they need drama in their lives.) and so have fewer internal resources to make themselves happy than men. A guy can be happy with his hobbies and such.
Women are children, and must be constantly entertained:
“Women are suited to being the nurses and teachers of our earliest childhood precisely because they themselves are childish, silly and short-sighted, in a word big children, their whole lives long: a kind of intermediate stage between the child and the man, who is the actual human being, ‘man.’”
— Schopenhauer, “On Women.”
Imagine you take your wife out for a fantastic Friday night. Dinner, concert, great sex, lots of emotional bonding and cuddling. A perfect fairy tale eventing.
On Saturday morning, it’s as if Friday never happened. They are bored, and they demand entertainment. If you want to work, or relax, or – God help you – read, then you NEVER pay them any attention. You are so boring.
Your Saturday will be miserable, and Friday never happened. This childish, never-satiated womanly way was celebrated in pop music: “Tomorrow I will change and today won’t mean a thing.” Indeed, if you don’t tolerate this childishness, it’s because you’re weak. “So take me as I am
This may mean you’ll have to be a stronger man.”
If you’re married, that’s your life. Is it worth it?
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intp sAID:
“Marriage, a civil union, is not necessary for kids. Only heterosexual copulation is required for making babies. For example, see the black urban underclass in America or the entire continent of Africa.”
ASDP SAID:
You proved my point. Blacks don’t have marriage, and just look at them. Same with the white underclass. Marriage is necessary for family stability.
I SAY:
BINGO @ ASDP! If one wants to see the RESULT of extreme woman hatred, game playing, thuggishness and where it leads, look no further than the Black community. Trust me I know this b/c I am BLACK and see daily what this kind of mindset and culture of “game” creates.
I’m telling you all this creates is low caliber women, low caliber men and a boatload of messed up children.
The Black community is headed to PERMANENT underclass status b/c of this. The Black females who should be pro creating aren’t while the low caliber ones who SHOULD NOT be are.
Its a big mess that I can tell you no other culture should be condoning or looking to as an example of something “working”.
For those who say the White population is dwindling and soon to be gone, I would bet my right index finger that the Black population (no matter how many out of wedlock births are created each year) will be the first to go. What’s a huge population of deadbeats and messed up children, women and men going to contribute to anything but taking up precious air and space.
The Black community is very well known for its INNATE WOMAN HATING. And we can see what is happening now b/c of it.
The Black community and its MALES are also known for not viewing marriage / committment and respecting women as a positive or necessity – you see the result of this.
All I can say is the White girls better hold on for a bumpy ride. maybe they can learn from the Black woman’s mistakes and not give in to this nonsense of finding GAME, THUGGISHNESS, SWAGGER and PENIS SIZE a necessity to having a fulfilling life and male companionship. Hopefully they will and if they do – GAME OVER….
Its a LOSE / LOSE for everyone fellas. just saying!
God placed man and woman on this earth to balance each other out. In a patriarchal society/world, smart males know that WOMEN should be treated with civility and respect b/c we are the nurturers. What you are condoning here is not natural and will never work in your favor – over the long term.
When the lack of respect for women in a patriarchal world or society goes down the tube, so does civilization and every thing else. Men of the past seemed to understand this. When the women are stepped on, the society falls apart.
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And then what?
your posts are both projection and total BS I laughed the whole way through ! thanks ! 🙂
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So its “males” vs “women”. A biological term for XY vs a human one for XX.
So, you offer this example of the sort of companionship men should look forward to from souring, sagging women.
Stupid Cunt.
Younger women are actually more appreciative if you understand how their minds work..
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Polymath-
Kids are an entirely different ball of wax. I firmly believe in marriage for having a family. The thing is, they’ll get the good genes because their parents had them young but they’ll suffer from a lack of being brought up by experienced, worldly and learned parents. So, nature vs. nurture. Which is worse? Which is better? I guess most would say use the strongest genes….?
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Oh, and Roissy handled Ms. Cunty’s (AKA and then what?) shit test/post perfectly.
If some dumb, over-the-hill bimbo you are talking to starts into a long screed about how “Men are hurting themselves by chasing younger women because blah, blah, blah, etc…”
You should respond, like Roissy did, after hearing her out by saying “that’s all great, but there’s just one thing we need to clear up… do you do anal?”
There is much wisdom in Roissy. Much wisdom.
You can learn a lot by reading this blog, boys.
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Mike said-
“and so have fewer internal resources to make themselves happy than men.”
–fantastic point. I am blessed to be similar to you men in this sense. I’ve been able to do this since I was young. But there are many men who also do not have internal abilities to keep themselves happily entertained with life, whether in marriage or not. These men and women usually find each other and end up cheating within the first few years of marriage. That, coupled with not really knowing who they are pulls them apart in different explorative directions and they’re done. Boom boom, bang, divorced at thirty.
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pre-nups are a total crapshoot.
It is true that sometimes, a lawyer can shred them, and make it as though you never had one.
It is also true that some judges really like pre-nups, because it moves the case volume through more quickly. They prefer something that gets the case finished in less time – this might even be a higher priority than screwing the man.
So, with pre-nups, it just depends.
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GORBACHEV,
I’ve read your posts. While you come off as VERY bitter, INSECURE and with waaay too much baggage, i still get this crazy notion by reading in between the lines that there is still a shred of something good left in you. Please recapture it before its completely gone. You will never get it back and if you ever decide you want to give it another go with a decent woman, she will spot your baggage and current woman hating a mile away. Believe me. I can’t imagine a male being happy for the rest of his life screwing and pretending to LOVE women when you really hate them.
You are not the only person to get screwed over in a relationhips -especially after being all encompassing. It happens to women ALL THE TIME. Women who sacrifice alot for a man they love. Do everything only to get left behind b/c she isn’t considered YOUNG and hot anymore. Should women foresake men altogether because of the many times we are screwed over? Should women start hating males b/c of the actions of a few?
I mean really – grow up. You are punishing all women for the actions of ONE WOMAN? Are you like 15 or something?
I just can’t understand how any sane healthy male can think that by shitting on women, playing games with them and showing a lack of respect for females can think this will garner anything positive for himself or men in general?
Just like man hating doesn’t get women anywhere – woman hating doesn’t get men anywhere,
The only basis of contentment I can garner from these posts is SEX. And sex with stupid women who fall for these BS games you play with them. Many of you act like its so hard to get laid. There will ALWAYS BE LOW CALIBER WOMEN to screw. BIG WHOOP. The hard part is getting the attractive, decent, emotionally stable, bright, charming ones.
Geez!
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hey and then,
are you good looking? and if so, are you planning to fuck or feed any of these men? because if not your little rant of shame won’t even register on them–because men don’t care what women think…you know, about anything
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@and then what?,
As gently as I can suggest, you DO NOT understand male psychology.
Let me clarify. List everything that sickens you about men. Their lazing around, drinking, partying or kicking back with other males, wanting to bang girls still in High School or Jr High, men’s unwillingness to marry, getting into fights, playing violent video games, etc…
Now, imagine that all those things you detest about men are actually things that MEN LIKE. In other words, when men are NOT doing those things is when they experience the greatest unhappiness and depression.
A man who is fucking and killing things CANNOT be depressed. It’s impossible. All those things make him feel too good.
For example, imagine a man rolling off the nude body of a 17 yr old hard-body cheerleader, her body glistening with sweat and his sperm dribbling out of her body, after an animal-like fuck session. Do you know how that makes him feel? It makes him feel like a fucking MILLION BUCKS.
That aforementioned picture would likely simultaneously sicken you and scare you so bad after your stomach pains subside you would dial 911 to have the man thrown in prison for life (which raises an interesting question is woman an enemy of liberty, worse than any foreign terrorist since she walks among us – separate discussion). But your reaction, your fear is YOUR problem. It has nothing to do with what men want.
In fact, your laundry list of fears is exactly that. YOUR fears, as a woman. Your 2 part essay was text book psychological projection of every woman’s fears. The fear of being old and alone. The fear of a lack of long-term companionship. The fear of being unwanted.
But, in your defense, you’re in the majority. Statistically speaking, most women [1] cannot accept what men want out of life and [2] what men want out of life if not what women want.
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“You can learn a lot by reading this blog, boys.”
Yes you are correct. BOYS need blogs and websites on how to get laid and screw dumb unsuspecting low caliber women.. real men don’t- GOT IT!
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I’ve read your posts. While you come off as VERY bitter, INSECURE and with waaay too much baggage
Your ethos radar is broken.
He comes off as someone who has lived through some drama; determined the cause of that drama; accepted personal responsibility for his role in the drama; moved on; and is avoiding future drama.
I.e., you know that Gorbachev isn’t a woman trolling as a man – since there are few women who could even pretend to accept personal responsibility for one’s choices and mistakes.
The bitter men dwell at The Spearhead. That site is loaded with men-as-victims – who are thus not men, since a man never views himself as a victim.
Most of the married or ex-married guys at Roissy are chill about what happened – even though of us paying alimony who or otherwise got screwed over in divorce court.
Life is tough and unfair. Men move on – which Gorbachev has done. Indeed, it kills women inside when they see men moving on. They want us bitter and unhappy.
Go troll The Spearhead.
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“Yes you are correct. BOYS need blogs and websites on how to get laid and screw dumb unsuspecting low caliber women.. real men don’t- GOT IT!”
Screwing young women > Screwing over-the-hill “high caliber” (LOL!) women
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Dana,
I’m not here to change minds. i’m just I guess apalled at this level of woman hatred. I have to admit its quite sad and disheartening on a serious note.
And to think I was always looking at the rappers/ hip hop artists as the biggest woman haters. but this site I see produces woman hatred on a much higher level than any rapers yelling “bitch hoe” and other things.
When women start receiving this level of extreme lack of respect and hatred by men in a patriarchal world its really really bad – for everyone.
When males in general start seeing women as simply deceitful, manipulative, liars, who are no good after 29 then we have a real problem.
Like i said. Women will adjust but what will you woman hating men do when the chickens come home to roost?
That’s all I want to know.
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@and then what? “Wow” “Geez!”
What’s next: “Oh my God!”
I have a feinting couch here if you need it.
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@ and then what
“Women over 35 today are adjusting just fine.”
Hooked on happiness: More women are being prescribed anti-depressants.
Unmarried Women At Higher Risk For Depression
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and then what?,
I’m not here to change minds. i’m just I guess apalled at this level of woman hatred.
You didn’t answer Roissy’s question about anal.
Which means, yes, you are a Butt Slut.
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i’m just I guess apalled at this level of woman hatred. I have to admit its quite sad and disheartening on a serious note.
Notice how men learning that they don’t have to buy a woman dinner and gifts in order to have sex with her is now ‘woman hatred’.
Actually, for every real misogynist man out there, there are about 10,000 men who pedestalize women, and think they are noble angels.
Pedestalizers outnumber misogynists 10,000 to 1 at least.
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and then what
what do women do FOR men today that MEN value that would entitle them to anything other than contempt and a pump and dump? what do the “single ladies” of beyonce’s have to offer MEN that MEN would want
tell me
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@ and then what
“Women will adjust but what will you woman hating men do when the chickens come home to roost?”
More projection of your fears. Your posts reek of fear.
But about that chicken dinner you’re meaning to serve us mean ole nasty men…can it possibly get WORSE for men than life now under you lipstick-wearing Bolshevik Feminists? I find that very, very hard to believe. Life itself might get harder, especially if the government welfare state ponzi scheme collapses, but it ain’t men who will be suffering the most.
Especially if the lights go out and no police answer your Dial-A-Thug (911) hot line. What will a spoiled, haughty, mouthy western woman do if the mall is closed and her iPhone is dead?
Your incredulity at the anger of men is common amongst all aristocracies, right before they are beheaded. Be under no illusion, western women are a protected class today (an aristocracy, if you will). Your days are numbered your Most Spoiled Highness.
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what do women do FOR men today that MEN value that would entitle them to anything other than contempt and a pump and dump? what do the “single ladies” of beyonce’s have to offer MEN that MEN would want
Silly Dana, men are not allowed to WANT anything. They are a resource to be pillaged, nothing more.
We are not supposed to consider that a man might need something to be happy. Let’s not promote men to the level of say, a dog or a parakeet.
That is what my Ivy League Women’s Studies degree taught me.
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“When males in general start seeing women as simply deceitful, manipulative, liars, who are no good after 29 then we have a real problem.”
yes “we” do– we being WOMEN
men don’t need us–for anything. they can hire a maid, a cook, and a prostitute and our company isn’t that facinating. we don’t listen to them, respect them, stay faithful to them, fuck them enough or leave them alone enough anymore.
one man can impregnate 100 women a week–have fun sharing that one guy.
it is WOMEN who want desperately want MEN for long term relationships and stability and kids and marriage. it is women who need men to create civilization for them to not die in childirth in. men don’t any of it, and then what, and when they decide to stop participating in it entirely–what will we do?
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As gently as I can suggest, you DO NOT understand male psychology.
ME: You know maybe I don’t. Since for most of my life I always believed there are a great number of emotionally healthy men who truly LOVE women and understand that in a patriarchal world, women should be handled with civility and respect since we are the most vulnerable IN A PATRIARCHAL world. I guess I was wrong.
Let me clarify. List everything that sickens you about men. Their lazing around, drinking, partying or kicking back with other males, wanting to bang girls still in High School or Jr High, men’s unwillingness to marry, getting into fights, playing violent video games, etc…
ME: I’m sorry but all that sounds like a bunch of cliché’s or someone who is still stuck in freshman frat boy days. Mature men don’t do half of that stuff b/c they are too busy realizing that they want a nice stable family and woman to raise their offspring for the future. Real ALPHA MALES understand that while men may run the planet, they somehow need to have a great deal of emotionally happy, stable women by their side to complete the process. And actually there aren’t many things I HATE or dislike about men. Actually the things that are most annoying about men sometimes makes them endearing. But if there is one thing I do HATE are men who have a deep seated hatred for women.
A man who is fucking and killing things CANNOT be depressed. It’s impossible. All those things make him feel too good.
ME:
I didn’t say they would be depressed or not feel good. but the fact is men get old TOO and yes *GASP* believe it or not they also (well SOME OF them ya know those ALPHA MALES so many of you aspire to be) actually grow up and mature and realize that a piece of hot young azz is just that and isn’t going to get him to those goals of raising a nice stable family unit with a woman who completes him both physically and mentally. I get the whole idea about men being visual and wanting to get laid every second. But I also know better than to buy into this notion that all men over a certain age and level of maturity are stuck in simply wanting to screw teenagers and 20 year olds for the rest of their natural life.
For example, imagine a man rolling off the nude body of a 17 yr old hard-body cheerleader, her body glistening with sweat and his sperm dribbling out of her body, after an animal-like fuck session. Do you know how that makes him feel? It makes him feel like a fucking MILLION BUCKS.
ME:
And then what? LOL.
But your reaction, your fear is YOUR problem. It has nothing to do with what men want.
In fact, your laundry list of fears is exactly that. YOUR fears, as a woman. Your 2 part essay was text book psychological projection of every woman’s fears. The fear of being old and alone. The fear of a lack of long-term companionship. The fear of being unwanted.
ME:
What I am saying to you is this. I get it. NO ONE wants to grow old alone – not even MEN. So try that with someone else. Women nor men want to grow old alone and childless. But I can tell you women ADJUST to this a lot better than males. And believe it or not YOU males in your 30’s and 40’s and above still going after the young hotties are forgetting one little thing – YES those hot young studs whose dicks get hard at the slight blow of wind and who can shoot sperm a mile away while you are still trying to get it up on a little blue pill. You know the ones whose abs are like steel, their hair is still luscious and thick, they can fuck for hours without a little blue pill? OH YES did we forget about the hot young studs or did you just thing you had it made till 80? Do you think the MAJORITY of hot young women are going to bypass all the hot young studs for some balding pot bellied aging dude who still thinks he’s got it? Psssh! Like someone mentioned earlier. All the aging guys who think they are going to have a surplus of hot young cooch at his bedside for the rest of his old days are in for a huge surprise. And yes, those aging guys will soon be looking for women on their level emotionally and physically b/c they won’t be able to compete with the hot y9ung studs whose dicks get hard when a slight breeze blows their way. Its happening already. They are trolling the online dating sites as we speak. And yes, it will be those 30/40 something year old women who have been happily living their lives focusing on themselves (b/c they had no choice) who are childless and still looking decent who you will want to turn to for companionships. And guess what buddy? They won’t need you or desire you. They’ve already resigned tot he fact they are going to most likely grow old alone and would have found friendships and other things to fulfill their happiness over the years.
But, in your defense, you’re in the majority. Statistically speaking, most women [1] cannot accept what men want out of life and [2] what men want out of life if not what women want.
ME:
And most men cannot and will not accept the consequences of their stupid childish actions.
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@and then what?
“When women start receiving this level of extreme lack of respect and hatred by men in a patriarchal world its really really bad – for everyone.”
This is an increasingly matriarchal world woman – not a patriarchal world. You women own it now. You women instituted maenads 2.0 with abortion and divorce. Where were the 50 millions abortions under the patriarchy? Admit your blood lust – existential annihilation for your “disappointing” husbands and literal annihilation for your babies. The picture isn’t pretty. If you women are receiving hatred now there’s dam good reason for it.
The men in my father’s generation made sure that a number of you got college educations often by working two or more jobs. At the same time you were getting a college education financed by your fathers you conveniently bought into the “evil patriarchy” myth perpetuated by some 5 foot nothing professor who was half the man your fathers were. You all knew this patriarchy bullshit was a cover story for you women to abdicate your responsibility when your turn came to perpetuate culture and civilization.
Female moral insight:
“Don’t worry baby you got the right shoes to get you through the night”
Male moral insight:
“Take your head out of the mud baby”
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As gently as I can suggest, you DO NOT understand male psychology.
ROFLMAO!!!!!
Dimbo, you do not understand male OR female psychology. That is why you don’t even know what Game is.
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DANA SAID:men don’t need us–for anything. they can hire a maid, a cook, and a prostitute and our company isn’t that facinating. we don’t listen to them, respect them, stay faithful to them, fuck them enough or leave them alone enough anymore.
one man can impregnate 100 women a week–have fun sharing that one guy.
ME:
You’re right men CAn do that. But men still marry, still create thriving communities and cultures and still procreate and believe me it isn’t with the maids, prostitues and low caliber women or 20 something year olds! They also don’t marry and choose educated, bright intelligent over 29 year old women b/c they HAVE to do it. The real men of this world do it b/c they WANT to and NEED and desire emotionally fit women to raise their offspring and to continue thier legacies. So the day that all men in general dump the bright, articulate, attractive, emotioanlly stable women who don’t screw any male who feeds them some BS line or GAME then you have a point. Until then, the “men” on here who have an obvious hatred towards women, marraige etc., are the ones who couldn’t cut it, so they are on to PLAN B- WOMAN HATING and screwing unsuspecting teenagers and 20 year olds.
[editor: beats screwing unsuspecting 40 year olds.]
Water rises to its on level.
[are you a squirter?]
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But men still marry, still create thriving communities and cultures and still procreate
This is in cultures where women are kept under much tighter control than you have been. Thus, the women of these cultures are much higher quality than you are.
Now go ahead, be a racist and call them ‘submissive’.
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Sentences from the Dimbo ‘and then what?’ :
“Women will adjust but what will you woman hating men do when the chickens come home to roost?”
But I can tell you women ADJUST to this a lot better than males.
And most men cannot and will not accept the consequences of their stupid childish actions.
As gently as I can suggest, you DO NOT understand male psychology.
Has there ever been a more complete, precise example of total and complete projection?
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all these unsuspecting women getting screwed, is it rohypnol? are men sneaking up behind them and jamming it in?
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No need to even be that creative. Just assume that they fuck westerners because it’s the only way to eat or that they need to send money to their parents.
I swear, not a single person whose made the fuck for food argument has ever been to Asia.
Dana is a woman after all – same jealous pissiness of foreigners. They are not real.
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many foreigners are real–europeans, japanese, chinese, russians, indians
just not low iq third worlders and the yanomamo indians
and canadians
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Chinese?! I don’t think I’d date a purebred Chinese. Their women are best mixed with Malay and European stock. A purebred is too calculating, and not physical enough.
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Remember when Wendy Schwartz first started posting here ? The boneheaded repetition of lame shibboleths that would never end, the complete lack of self awareness that would make an autistic kid seem enlightened, the incessant capitalization of words within a post as if that added substance and weight to her argument ? Imagine if Wendy Schwartz had been black ?
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It’s for good reason that SE Asians are called LBFMs, while no one refers to the Chinese that way. LBFM. Little brown fucking machine.
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INTP SAID:
Especially if the lights go out and no police answer your Dial-A-Thug (911) hot line. What will a spoiled, haughty, mouthy western woman do if the mall is closed and her iPhone is dead?
ME:
Thank God for those Alpha Males. They’ve got it covered dear. i’m not worried.
INTP:
Your incredulity at the anger of men
ME:
Anger of men? uhm i more apt to call it the bithcing, crying and whining of OMEGA boys who can’t or couldn’t cut it and are taking it out on the most vulnerable group – women.
YOU:Be under no illusion, western women are a protected class today (an aristocracy, if you will).
ME:
Ah yes, thank God for those Alpha Males who get it. I mean without them, we’d be living in 3rd world type status. Hell we’d be prostituting ourselves overseas to the 3rd world foreing men if the majority of western males weren’t so in tune with how women should be treated. But once again, you uplift the women, you uplift your culture and society. treat the women like crap, you end up like the 3rd world countries.
INTP:
Your days are numbered your Most Spoiled Highness.
ME:
I’m okay with that just as long as you realize all those hot young perky teenagers and 20 somethings you enjoy now, soon lose thier appeal and novelty as well. You see what you pitiful ingrains can’t seem to realize is, what you denounce also benefits you. Thats why when you go to a 3rd world country the women look and smell like shyt and act accordingly. that’s b/c somehow their males didn’t see fit to uplift them or never got the memo. ALPHA MALES run the most thriving societies and most progressive countries for a lot of reasons. And typicaly thiese c0untries have the most well adjusted and cared for women. THUS why those 3rd world women and prosties run to AMERICA (home of the Alpha westernized male that typically treats women a lot more like they should be treated). Once the westernized way of treating women go out the window, so does your 3rd world prostitues you so happily run to when you can’t cut it with a real woman.
ITS all relative. Actions/results/consequences – good and bad.
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Gorbachev
thank you.
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Getting pretty epic.
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@ and then what
Are you enjoying your outrage? Or maybe you haven’t quite reached your emotional peak yet, and still need more fix?
The air is thin on your “Geez! I can’t believe you said that!” pulpit, and this makes you hyperventilate, and you love the rush, don’t you?
Why don’t you piss off and go be offended somewhere else?
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[editor: beats screwing unsuspecting 40 year olds.]
Yeah right.
I’m inclined to call BS. many of you are dreaming about having all these 20 yr olds at your disposal. As long as there are 20 something year old men with harder abs, quicker and longer hard ons, more hair, more agility you will be getting laid by the avergae 35-40 year old. Don’t hate us 30 something and 40 something year olds b/c now we are what the majority of you will be getting from here on out. You can’t compete with the young hotties and NEVER WILL. Every now and then you might luck up and catch some 20 somethng yr old looking. But most of the time NOT!
[editor: i haven’t had a 40 year old woman in…. ever. and not about to start any time soon.
as for you, you are a troll, albeit a boring and repetitive one with nothing original to say whose hackneyed drivel hasn’t been answered a million times before on this blog by smarter people than you. in fact, you sound suspiciously like a carbon copy of some of the dumber trolls that have infested this blog in the past, and as such you will be be banned before your stupidity drives away the better commenters. maybe if you had answered in a timely fashion my earlier question about whether you do anal all this unpleasantness could have been avoided.]
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‘and then what?’ does not know what an Alpha Male is.
An Alpha Male is a man who runs Game, whether he is a natural, or he learned it by reading Roissy and other Game bloggers.
So an Alpha Male is exactly what this Dimbo hates – yet she does not see her own contradictions.
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INTP A man who is fucking and killing things CANNOT be depressed. It’s impossible. All those things make him feel too good.
YIKES
*CHIC NOIR takes off running for the hills*
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Don’t worry XSPLAT. My work is done here and i am leaving. This has been quite an enlightening experience. I didn’t realize there were so many bitter, insecure woman hating men in America.
Oh well all I can say is there aren’t enough Asian and European women moving fast enough to get you off of the American womans hands.
Just go create citizenship over seas and in 3rd world countries and let the real western men handle business as usual. You are wasting air and space with your complaining. If the grass is so much greener on the other side, you’d have revoked your American citizenship a long time ago to be with all those wonderful 3rd world women you BRAG about!
Toodles!
Oh and let me sign off with:
WOW!!!
GEEZ!!!
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@ and then what?
Obviously you have never been to a third world country, and probably not Eastern Europe for that matter. The average woman is not an overweight entitled princess, and knows how to treat a man. Why do you think non-Western men aren’t interested in American women? Expat women working in the East cannot get men’s interest there. Hmmm.
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@biktopia
“Women just don’t know what fickle and hypocritical creatures they are. ”
pleeeeassseee…
Whatever. I have more experience dealing with a huge range of women than you do, in more varied situations and in several cultures. So do most of the actual PUAs (I’m just a wannabe).
You still have that wonderful delusional myopia.
Ignore our experience dealing with women’s sexuality. Clearly, our experience manipulating and dealing with it is meaningless. Whatever.
I was just trying to nicely explain it. I forgot the old maxim–
If you would speak the truth, keep one food in the stirrup.
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@You’re Mom
Modern society is fucked, but something must come after. You folks all seem most interested in a hedonistic ride down, and frankly, I can understand why you’ve made that choice. If and when you decide to contribute to the future, find a nice, smart, moral, corn-fed girl, one that hasn’t been fed the feminism bullshit, and screw her brains out. Crank out the kids and train them well. No time like the present. Don’t wait for someone else to do it for you.
The hedonistic ride is my way of coping with what I learned about the nature of women. Oh, and that I think women are awesome and I love having them. And a separate issue, I also love sex.
What’s to complain about?
Even Roissy may one day breed. Who knows.
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@Jules Verne
Reading comments by people like Gorbachev and xsplat makes me ask myself: Why bother?
A good woman, who is so rare today, is supposedly what I should look out for if I decide to settle down.
Yet how am I to know if it is a good one? All these examples that these men have cited show what not to tolerate in a woman.
One big ass red pill indeed.
Yes. Wake up. You want a wife; instead, find female companionship and enjoy it. Until they wise up and allow us to reform the systems that crush our mutual aspirations, opt out and find a way to be happy. And not single.
You don’t need to have 2-4 women at any given time to be happy.
But it sure helps.
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Original JB – I meant “we” in the general sense. I read a lot of books. Just finished The Turner Diaries.
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And then wut.
INTP is on to something. When I was 11 years old I got a taste of real (Texas) primary school football and real violence. By some kind of miracle, our team got as a coach – young teacher- who had been deep in the US Marine Corp. I think he had been a Drill Sergeant.
Anyway, he ran work outs for us boys by screaming in our faces that he wanted so see blood, real blood running out of the other guys bodies. He would put us in the equivalent of cage fighting to “weed out the weak.”
I was hardly the biggest kid on the team but I was one of the first to grasp his real meaning and purpose and found my own resonance with it. And what was that about”? It was that in football you must hit with unlimited violence directed at the other guys most vulnerable point. And do it every play like a little Souless Spartan Machines. And if the other guy can no longer get up… no tears.
Some kids fled in terror from this tableau. Some others found themselves in it and would have cheerfully followed this coach to Hades and back – we happy few who had intuited in an atavistic way that he was the only adult around who respected what healthy young boys are really like and was going to give them a chance to survive what was surely coming..
As I recall, the hard core of us who stuck it out had one of the happiest and least stressful times of our lives.
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@and then what?
I’m just curious if any of you “ALPHA MALES” here have thought out the consequences of your actions and hatred towards women (especially those over 30).
Of course. Not all that bad for us. Fucking awful for women.
I guess I am just thinking of all the things that ARE eventually going to catch up to many of you and wonder how you will adjust. Women are smart and resourceful. We will ALWAYS find ways to fulfill ourselves.
Dogs. Small toy dogs and sexcations, I mean vacations with the girls to Jamaica and Trinidad. Be sure to being lots of cash.
And women ALSO have an easier time adjusting without male companionship and sex than men can or do.
Who says we won’t have it? How interesting.
If screwing 20 something year old women and never marrying were so great and easy ALL men would be doing it and would HAVE been doing it. But the fact is, we all know where that gets you in the end.
Most guys never even try. I never did. Then I did. And I said: Holy crap. How awesome is this. I love feminism.
Yeah yeah you can rag on the over 30 something year old women, but in the end when your 20 something year old who you can easily bang and do whatever you want with
It’s not always that easy. Actually, it’s quite possible to relate to women and still fuck their brains out. They love it.
can’t provide the emotional sustenance that MOST EMOTIONALLY ADULT HEALTHY MALES NEED then you lose.
A 26 year old who wants to settle down with a man can relate just as well as a 35 year-old. Except that she’s much hotter.
You honestly believe that the only to suffer in this “game” are women? And women over 35? LOL.
Not at all. Don’t be an idiot. We just get compensation if we try.
Women over 35 today are adjusting just fine. If we want kids we can get them. And many are choosing to go at it alone than to s4ttle for a bunch of emotionally ill equipped insecure shallow “men” who hate women. We’re already making the money so that’s covered.
Um, … WOW do you really need to hang out with some single, bitter 35-45 year old women. Feminism is just totally fucking selling you a bill of goods.
Call us misogynist pigs. Typical men. WhatEVER.
Relate: My friend nearly went apoplectic when she learned the story she was told for 20 years about her easily being able to find a 35-40 year old Great Guy Super Man (no Betas need apply) to marry and have kids when she was 36, …
Well, she turned out to have 10% of the fertility she did when she was 28, and no “Great Super Men” around. Just a bunch of, … normal guys. The same guys she said “Who the hell are you?” to when she was 25.
Her doctor and the clinic and the other clinic all told her: Your fertility at 35-40 is a fraction – a fraction – of what it was just 8 years ago. You want a baby? It’ll probably cost $40,000. And you MIGHT have one.
Oh, and then find a guy willing to marry you. And marry you knocked up in-vitro. And he has to be a Great Guy I Always Wanted. No Betas or Herbs (still treated like shit).
She felt: Betrayed ; Bitter ; and Explosively Enraged at the near total blackout on the truth the media spun her.
Lots of articles and books these days about feminists: regretting the career thing with no families to speak of; feeling betrayed because the work-work-work world of men isn’t as rewarding as many women thought it was (high-caliber women quitting Law, Engineering, Business jobs in record numbers – despite desperate pleas by men to stick around, men love to work like focused monomaniacs but women like a broader life experience); women bitter at having to spend small fortunes to maybe have half-healthy babies from frozen sperm, …
Sounds fucking awesome for society, eh? Awesome.
It’s all family and man-hating. And it masquerades as “independence” and “equality”.
Thanks, my lifestyle choice is the best of many options.
Equality has nothing to do with it.
All I can say is this. For actions there are results and in some cases, consequences. And while many are pointing out the consequences of feminism towards women and marriage, believe me fellas your day is coming too. Your future generation of males will be pointing to the woman haters like yourselves saying how you’ve ruined it for them. And so the cycle continues.
WTF? How are we messing ANYTHING up? We’re just picking at the crumbs of feminism. Seriously.
Feminism (whatever the hell that means any more) powers and charges us. It created us. It recreates us every day.
As long as the men on here realize that, one day (usually when its too late) you will (and upcoming generations of males) will suffer with this kind of mindset and ultimately lose out b/c of your BITTERNESS then I guess its okay to feel and do the things you do.
It’s a lose / lose for both genders. How unfortunate.
*shrug*
Well, we’re not the bad dogs here. We’re just picking up the pieces as we can.
I’m just sad and bitter because many women (and unaware guys) think we’re the cause of anything.
We’re just living our lives under the rules women created.
UNDER THE RULES WOMEN CREATED.
Don’t like it – take it up with with… yourselves.
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@Roissy,
[editor: that’s all great, but there’s just one thing we need to clear up…
do you do anal?]
Much more succinct than me, Roissy.
But you’re one cold, icy cold bastard.
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I have been seriously engaged with a few openminded thinkers in a serious debate and I think its time I broached this topic here.
{And then what has nothing at all to do with this}
Is Rape ever justified?
If so, what are the circumstances by which it would be deemed so?
One conversant said: “Sure, Pre-christian biblical eye-for-an eye justice i.e. You raped my daughter, I am now raping yours.”
Oh, if anyone thinks this is about my preferences.. My answer to the adage “You can’t rape the willing” is “only if your not trying hard enough”
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@xsplat
I’ve found two solutions that work – keeping a few girlfriends and fuckbuddies and occasional flings, and serial monogamy. Even with very bonded monogamy I no longer view to lifetime bonding. It’s always step by step, day by day.
This seems both realistic and emotionally satisfying. You can have both.
I seem to have stumbled onto this solution in my mad rush to sadistic hedonism. What a coincidence.
It’s pretty darned emotionally satisfying, I gotta tell ya.
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@Rum
I am a native son of Texas… and you struck black gold in your comment about Texas football. Its a fundamentalist religion ’round these parts.
But its not all lord of the flies either, deliberately breaking a players knees will get you thrown off the field and warming a bench until you quit. We don’t play unsportsmanlike conduct, but breaking/bruising someone’s ribs… Fair Game.
High School football isn’t all about the moving the pigskin either. Its also about banging cheerleaders and doing a train on the prom queen.
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@You’re Mom
Seems to me like men are making the best of a shitty situation. This site is evidence of what happens when the deck is so stacked that men see themselves as having nothing to gain by playing by the rules of a feminized society. Might as well enjoy the ride then, no? How many of these guys have ever even SEEN a healthy marriage? I bet most of them don’t even know what they are missing.
WTF. Mine was pretty good, until my lack of game fucked it up. I can take responsibility for my blame now. But only for what I really did wrong. I listened to my wife’s delusional bleatings. I should have gamed her.
The feminists fucked it up years ago, and now come back pissed off that they are forced to accept the long-term consequences of their actions.
Boo fucking hoo.
@you’re mom, you got it.
I just don’t understand why women think we’re misogynists for ragging on feminism this way.
Go back to the 70’s. Geez, read Andrea Dworkin. MEN ARE THE ENEMY. ALL THINGS MALE ARE DANGEROUS. ALL SEX IS RAPE. WOMEN ARE ALWAYS VICTIMS. MEN ARE PRESUMED DANGEROUS.
They built it. We live in it.
Repeatedly fuck us in the ass and we’re supposed to just keep trying to follow the original script – even society has stacked it against us? We’re supposed to take the shit endlessly?
Can you blame us for trying to enjoy our time in this age of tragic decline?
Don’t complain. We’re nibbling at the tattered edges of the meal that was served to us. We’re just trying to make the best of a truly shitty social situation.
Like the self-serving narcissists they are, feminist bleaters now blame us for the failings of their own contradictory utopian Anti-Masculine dreams.
Blaming the men for their own failures. Again. Just sing it to me in fucking technicolour.
And you wonder why we think Western women are delusional and self-destructive and you hate men and maleness.
Un-be-fucking-lievable.
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@Mike,
On Saturday morning, it’s as if Friday never happened. They are bored, and they demand entertainment. If you want to work, or relax, or – God help you – read, then you NEVER pay them any attention. You are so boring.
Your Saturday will be miserable, and Friday never happened. This childish, never-satiated womanly way was celebrated in pop music: “Tomorrow I will change and today won’t mean a thing.” Indeed, if you don’t tolerate this childishness, it’s because you’re weak. “So take me as I am
This may mean you’ll have to be a stronger man.”
If you’re married, that’s your life. Is it worth it?
Women will never admit it, cognitive dissonance prevents it. But this is married life.
You never take me out. What have you done for me lately?
It’s just so fucking true.
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“Badger Nation
aragorn,
“For all you guys who are worried about getting raped in divorce court, why not just get a fucking prenup?”
Putting aside the fact that they can be ignored if the judge feels like it, the snotty advice to “get a prenup” is begging the question – it presupposes an unsound premise. You are positing that marriage is all well and good, and you can take care of a possibly nasty complication with a legal attainder.”
call it snotty if you want, douchebag, but the advice stands. if you’re getting married and have assets get a prenup. there’s a reason donald trump is a billionaire and not half-a billionaire after 3 marriages.
ps, begging the question means the conclusion assumes the premise. don’t use terms you don’t understand.
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and then what: It is funny that an old, bitter woman like you thinks anything you say has any relevance or carries any weight at all. Who the fuck cares what some old dumb bitch thinks? You are undesirable and worthless times 1 million.
You could have saved yourself a lot of time and energy if you got it through your worthless body that no guy gives a shit about what your opinion and views are concerning male/female relationships.
Have fun getting less desirable by the second. Make sure you take care of your cats because besides them, you are totally worthless.
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@and then what?
GORBACHEV,
I’ve read your posts. While you come off as VERY bitter, INSECURE and with waaay too much baggage,
Insecure? Used to be. Bitter? For sure. I really should get over that.
Fuck your delusions. Oh, did I say that out loud? Oops.
i still get this crazy notion by reading in between the lines that there is still a shred of something good left in you.
Um, lady, there’s a whole lot of good left in me. There’s just a lot less stupid left.
Please recapture it before its completely gone. You will never get it back and if you ever decide you want to give it another go with a decent woman, she will spot your baggage and current woman hating a mile away. Believe me. I can’t imagine a male being happy for the rest of his life screwing and pretending to LOVE women when you really hate them.
I love women. I hate the delusion. Stop believing the myths. You’ll feel better. I promise.
You are not the only person to get screwed over in a relationhips -especially after being all encompassing. It happens to women ALL THE TIME. Women who sacrifice alot for a man they love. Do everything only to get left behind b/c she isn’t considered YOUNG and hot anymore. Should women foresake men altogether because of the many times we are screwed over? Should women start hating males b/c of the actions of a few?
Who said I hate women? I think they’re awesome. I just don’t believe you’re in full command of your instincts. You can’t help it. I don’t blame you any more. Don’t worry.
I mean really – grow up. You are punishing all women for the actions of ONE WOMAN? Are you like 15 or something?
How am I punishing ANYONE?
Look: The myths are just wrong. I have some experience with this.
I just can’t understand how any sane healthy male can think that by shitting on women, playing games with them and showing a lack of respect for females can think this will garner anything positive for himself or men in general?
I did what? … OH.
You mean by having Intimate Relations with, … more than one woman. OOOOHHHHH.
You mean I offended some moral code?
I wasn’t aware it was salient any more.
So FEW women bother to mention it any more.
The only basis of contentment I can garner from these posts is SEX.
Um, … yes. I’m male. Any male who says he wouldn’t like to sleep with attractive women (plural) is a disingenuous shit.
And I do have emotional relationships, too. I’ve had my heart broken – recently – a number of times. I get to liking some women too much. I think they resent it.
And sex with stupid women who fall for these BS games you play with them. Many of you act like its so hard to get laid. There will ALWAYS BE LOW CALIBER WOMEN to screw. BIG WHOOP. The hard part is getting the attractive, decent, emotionally stable, bright, charming ones.
Geez!
Hey. That part isn’t hard at all. Trust me. I just don’t want to marry them. Aside from children, what possible incentive is there for me to do that?
Haven’t seen many low-caliber women in a pretty long while.
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@Mike,
I.e., you know that Gorbachev isn’t a woman trolling as a man – since there are few women who could even pretend to accept personal responsibility for one’s choices and mistakes.
Just for once I would like some woman to acknowledge that it’s not hating women to 1) Examine their basic nature and 2) Protect ourselves from it.
I admit that there’s some moral negotiating zone about 3) Exploiting their basic nature, … but if it quacks like a duck and shits all over the park, I’m not going to pretend it’s a unicorn.
Just saying that This Is What Almost All Women Do All The Time seems to mean we hate them.
Is it even remotely possible for women to take responsibility for any single choice they ever make that doesn’t turn out well?
Oh, BTW, this is directed at the women posters.
For the men, the question was rhetorical.
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actually it means that the premise assumes the conclusion, sir, speaking of terms you don’t understand
a conclusion would be very sad if it didn’t assume its premises; in that case it would be a postulate, not a conclusion.
remember i didn’t fire the first shot in this little contretemps
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@INTP-
This is a very interesting psychological comparison. “Let them eat cake” is not too far from the women’s studies view of the inferiority of men and the class rule of feminists. The idea of guillotines being rolled out in Harvard Yard is awesome and funny. So who’s going to be our Robespierre? Step up, Roissy! 🙂
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@and then what?
Dana,
I’m not here to change minds. i’m just I guess apalled at this level of woman hatred. I have to admit its quite sad and disheartening on a serious note.
When women start receiving this level of extreme lack of respect and hatred by men in a patriarchal world its really really bad – for everyone.
No hatred yet. Wanna chat about hate, have that discussion with Andrea Dworkin.
When males in general start seeing women as simply deceitful, manipulative, liars, who are no good after 29 then we have a real problem.
Um. Waking up, are you?
Society does indeed have a problem. We just don’t trust you any more. Check the marriage stats. Be brave. Have a chat with your older Urban sisters. Watch the American men slowly lose interest. Take a good, long, hard look at the American family. Take off those pink glasses.
It’s not like I BLAME women for being deceitful, manipulative liars. That’s like complaining about Rain.
I just bought an umbrella.
Um, … I think I’ll weather this storm by fucking and enjoying the company of women on my own terms. No hostility.
I’m just not going to be pwned by any of them again.
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ps, begging the question means the conclusion assumes the premise. don’t use terms you don’t understand.
Wrong, douche-a-roni, the Feminist’s treat. He was right and you were wrong.
Your advice, “Get a prenup,” begs the question of whether you should get married at all.
Thus, he used it properly, and you confirmed that you are the worst kind of idiot:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning-Kruger_effect
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@gorby-
lol
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“Mike
ps, begging the question means the conclusion assumes the premise. don’t use terms you don’t understand.
Wrong, douche-a-roni, the Feminist’s treat. He was right and you were wrong.
Your advice, “Get a prenup,” begs the question of whether you should get married at all.
Thus, he used it properly, and you confirmed that you are the worst kind of idiot:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning-Kruger_effect”
the statement “if you get married get a prenup” does not presume someone wants to get married. you’re over your head little man and wikipedia won’t help you.
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Wrong, douche-a-roni, the Feminist’s treat.
I laughed.
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AO Update
If anyone cares for an update, and remembers last week’s field report from the trenches of What The Hell Was I Thinking, AO appears to have the predicted effect.
Gaming with AO attaches with extra glue. And the glue is extra hot.
It’s like a hot glue gun.
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@Xsplat
“All I know is from my personal experience I had to:
1) get fucked over many times in order to harsh up enough to deal properly with women – ruthlessly
2) Date some girls I didn’t love or much care about, in order to know what it’s like to have hand
3) date a lot in order to learn to highlight the positives and use operant conditioning to do what you say is your goal – to get completely under the skin of the woman”
Exposure to game theory was such a value inversion for me that I haven’t had a problem since being ruthless. I’ve done a bit of 2 and it feels just as bad as being a corporate office whore – a compromise of character.
Now we’re getting to the really interesting part. The question is, “Is it possible?” Is “go fuck 10 other girls” the only practical path to Game mastery? I don’t know yet.
“I find it hard to see how you can get from A to F without passing through the intermediate letters – many of which really suck.”
I agree. View the problem in terms of startup investing – I’m working with far less capital than most because I’m not willing to invest myself sexually in practice relationships. What’s the solution? Microtesting – measuring results on a smaller scale of investment. At game’s pinnacle, social reality bends around the alpha like a gravitational well, producing innumerable effects beyond the easily measured (lays x hotness).
@Original JB
“Umm, dude, the “PC narrative” doesn’t “collapse” by itself. You have to go through the institutions one by one. I’m suggesting that the easiest way to do so is to cut the head of the D.C. snake as it is tied in with perpetuating “the narrative.””
Yes it will. Just like Communism collapsed by itself. It’s great you learned the Gramscian march through the institutions. That’s not how it will unhappen. The institutions will collapse. Remember your Machiavelli – corrupt states don’t revive. Ditto for institutions.
DC is only one appendage of the ruling class of the mighty Blue empire. The days when striking off the monarch’s head equaled revolution are long gone. Power has been decentralized. Sic semper tyrannis and don’t tread on me is all very well and good, but try to see the world first. And you still don’t get what I mean by, a secure state power is the best security. Hint: Is the power of a representative democracy’s government secure?
“How feminist is Japan? Read the Gorbachev post on gaming Korean and Japanese chicks. The trend is unmistakeably in one direction. Rampant cheating, increasing feminization of men, etc. Give them enough time.”
A dodge and a yelp. If cheating and effeminate men equal feminism, it goes back quite a long way, doesn’t it? The problems of western feminism, namely marriage 2.0 and government enforced equalitarianism, do not exist to nearly the same extent in East Asia.
You’re failing to take the enemy seriously enough because you do not see it clearly. The Blue empire holds absolute global military supremacy, enjoys near unanimous popular legitimacy, has an unlimited supply of willing martyrs, and controls the organs of intellectual and popular discourse and education. You’re Fxxxed. You might as well be a 1950s Russian saying, “We must return power to the boyars.”
There is no state structure that can withstand the wrath of the Blues. From the defeat of the Confederacy and National Socialists to South Africa and Rhodesia, it is absolutely hopeless to oppose them directly or bear the brunt of their ostracism.
@xsplat
“Chinese?! I don’t think I’d date a purebred Chinese. Their women are best mixed with Malay and European stock. A purebred is too calculating, and not physical enough.”
I’ve always heard this. Not speaking the language, it’s hard to tell. But it hasn’t been my experience. Maybe it’s a class thing – I won’t date anything but the young of the top echelons, who tend to be more idealistic. No doubt there are plenty of conniving bitches in China!
As for frigidity… that has also not been my experience. But maybe lower IQ girls need less verbal stimulation to go crazy in bed. Also, I find the lower IQ of Thais and Philippinas unattractively expressed in the forehead and general physiognomy, not to mention banal personality. But my experience with them is not broad.
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Gorbachev, when i wrote that about your name, i didn’t see your long explanation, just want to say that your first comments on this post got me upset, how could i be know, its rare to read such a good post here. i highly appreciate what you told, i cant go into it more deeply right know as i have to go, just wanted you to know.
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@ahappinessexperiment
“i suggest u look at the economy of britain and then look at the economy of italy”
I suggest you sort out your chaotic mind and figure out what it is you’re trying to argue as opposed to emoting wildly.
Are we talking about economics or political tyranny here? Spain, Greece, Portugal, Ireland – do those ring any bell? Why single out Berlusconi? You remind me of one of those antisemites whose only focus on human rights involves Israel.
Britain has been a fucking Orwellian nightmare for the last decade and your big selling point here is that their deep economic problems are better than Italy’s?
@chic noir
That bitch Tyra stole all my good ideas. We were lying in bed one day and she goes, shit, I hate having to stay thin all the time. And I go, baby, your audience is full of fat bitches anyway. So just go crazy, eat anything you want! They’ll relate to that…bam! Ratings bonanza! Of course you know I’m gonna have to dump yo fat ass…
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[editor says: poor reasoning. the odds of some gambles are so bad it makes sense to not even play. russian roulette with three chambers loaded is not my idea of a worthwhile risk.]
Instead, your money is on “having sex with skanks? You’d rather play Russian Roulette with your soul (risking eternal damnation), body (stds), and emotions (alone in old age-I’ve seen it…it’s sad…)?
[editor: false premise. would it shatter your worldview to know that i don’t sleep with “bar skanks”?]
[editor says” prenups can be shredded by a good lawyer. see: tiger woods. what needs to happen is a complete rework of the institution. raze it to the ground and build it back up. get rid of alimony and no-fault. child custody is 50/50 automatic, barring very unusual extenuating circumstances. dispense with the “i got used to a certain standard of living so hook me up with the gold-plated retirement plan” bullshit. drain the coffers of the divorce industry and their armies of lawyers.]
I agree with getting rid of alimony and no fault divorce. Child custody the same although I think it’s very unfair to children to force them to live in 2 homes like that and I’ll bet a lot of husbands would forfeit their right “in the interest of the kids” (actually, in the interest of getting their groove on and swilling beer-my former husband did, and he was the one who was cheating, by the way-and no I don’t get alimony). Hopefully with no more “no fault” divorces and no more alimony, the kids being split 50/50 wouldn’t happen too often.
INTP Really? And you speak for all men? That’s funny, I know lots of HAPPY older men who are faithful to their wives and hard working. One I know from the internet writes a terrific blog FOR women about how to get along better with men. He loves women even after being married for over 50 years. I wonder what men like him did right. I doubt he met his wife in a bar.
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damn, this thread has a ton of information on in, thanks.
A pre-nup shouldn’t be necessary but it has become so. If they’re worthless in court than I understand not getting married right now. My point in pushing for later marriage would be that it is a somewhat short term fix for the divorce rate. It is the law in the US right now that has ruined the institution of marriage but it is we the people who have ruined the institution of partnership. I’m convinced that many/most simply don’t know how to do it. I am more focused on a couple learning how to operate like just that, a couple, the paperwork only adds to the mess. Marriage should come after two people can function as two successfully.
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@gorbachev
I see the alpha in you making miktopia’s gina tingle in her reveling post at 4:38 am.
You pissed her off, but unlike us men, woman have the ability to feel and process about 6 emotions concurrently. For this men think them duplicitous and two-faced.
She is pissed but she likes you. Alot.
Its for this reason that Shakespeare penned the words
“Woman thy doth protest too much”. Others have nailed it with the expression Solipsism of the female mind.
And its why game is and always will be effective.
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>>>>>>Is it even remotely possible for women to take responsibility for any single choice they ever make that doesn’t turn out well?
YES. I would ask the same of the men here. Is it possible that your marriage ended because you acted like a jerk?
>>>>>>A man who is fucking and killing things CANNOT be depressed. It’s impossible. All those things make him feel too good.
Like John Gardner III? I’ll bet he’s not a happy camper right now, unless he likes butthex.
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gorb
on some atavistic level all women know the truth but women believe that words create reality, consequently they are constantly trying to stop realities they don’t want to be true from being spoken out loud. it is a form of magical thinking. if a woman doesn’t admit out loud in words that she is fat AND no one ever tells here she is she will allow herself to walk around in a hazy delusional denial of her appearance–it only becomes REAL when spoken. if a woman doesn’t admit out loud that jerks give her the gina tingle and persistently announce that she wants a NICE guy no amount of banging assholes in reality will make her admit her words are lies–she WANTS it to be true she likes nice guys
this mode of thought accounts for political correctness 100%. there are men who think this way as well but it is the primary mode of thought for women. one problem men will always have is that the MORE feminine a woman is the more likely she is to think this way–so more attractive women are the least easy people to have logical conversations with about the nature of reality. in the past men and women didn’t seek intellectual companionship from each other and i doubt men ever tried to argue a woman out of any of her silly little flibbertigibbet notions, he just hurried her off to her sewing circle so he could go play poker at the saloon.
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“Is it possible that your marriage ended because you acted like a jerk?”
It’s more likely the marriage ended because he didn’t act like a jerk
“unless he likes butthex”…haha…sometimes I think roissy posts as various characters to make the comments more interesting and to prove points in a different way….
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The ending lyrics from Zooropa:
She’s gonna dream up
The world she wants to live in
She’s gonna dream out loud
She’s gonna dream out loud
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@biktopia
Gorbachev, when i wrote that about your name, i didn’t see your long explanation, just want to say that your first comments on this post got me upset, how could i be know, its rare to read such a good post here. i highly appreciate what you told, i cant go into it more deeply right know as i have to go, just wanted you to know.
Comments below.
@ephebophile
gorbachev,
I see the alpha in you making miktopia’s gina tingle in her reveling post at 4:38 am.
You pissed her off, but unlike us men, woman have the ability to feel and process about 6 emotions concurrently. For this men think them duplicitous and two-faced.
She is pissed but she likes you. Alot.
Its for this reason that Shakespeare penned the words
“Woman thy doth protest too much”. Others have nailed it with the expression Solipsism of the female mind.
And its why game is and always will be effective.
Ephebe,
I’m going to give Biktopia the benefit of the bit of doubt left.
We’re all just pixels and light here, so I haven’t been able to game her. I’ll go out on a limb and guess that her conscious mind is genuinely interested in how a man can reconcile his behaviour, reveling in female company, and have any kind of moral code or remain true to his own need to relate to other people in a genuine way. I can detect a murmur of real hurt in her tone, something beyond facile moral revulsion and the usual sanctimonious bullpucky you get.
This is why I’m trying to explain it in terms that might actually break the comprehension barrier she comes pre-installed with. If she can open her mind, she’ll see a brighter universe.
I’m not an actual misogynist, just a bad, bad boy. None of my women dislike me. I wouldn’t be with them over time then. I love some of them deeply, the ones that are able to impress me as human beings.
So Biktopia gets the benefit of the doubt and some of my words.
@andwhatnext was just a fucking troll. The Full Delusional Monty.
Women and Emotional Multiplexity
I may have less experience tooling chicks than Mr. Arctic Ice Roissy, and Mystery could sarge a room before I got my coat off. But I’ve now had far more practical experience with a huge range of women, both in bed and in life to be able to parse and tease out the methods they use to function.
They can emotionally multitask (and as a default, do). But as the concurrent threads of emotion-feeling-thought layer on top of each other then get tangled. And they can lose focus and emotionally wander all over the place, making it look like they’re weak (why they’re called the weaker sex). Their state appears amorphous to us, sort-of like a glob that needs guidance.
But they’re *NOT* weak. They’re capable of calculated viciousness at the flick of a switch. I’ve seen it so often I know it’s a truism to say woman = capricious and potentially brutal.
Men are also capable of shit but it’s qualitatively different, as I outline below.
She can have multiple contradictory feelings at any one time.
Example: Feelings going through a woman:
1 My BF is great, awesome, AND
2 My BF is such a weak, useless douchebag AND
3 Am I fat? I should see if that guy hits on me that means I’m not fat AND
4 If I sleep with this guy it means I’m hot AND
5 Cats make me smile AND
6 Damn I like multiple orgasms AND
7 I wish my mother liked me more AND
8 I want people to respect me AND…
etc.
Imagine that each thread pulses like a big vein or organ filling with blood, engorging or shrinking as the situation changes.
The problem with both men and women is that these emotional threads often run together and we end up with a sort of self-contradictory Swamp Water mish-mash. With women having so many more threads than men, the problem is much worse for them.
If she has BOTH 1 and 2 above, which she can actually manage to keep running concurrently, where you fit in as a man really depends on which one is more prominent. You have to assume maximum variability: The ratio can change by the second.
Then add in 3 and 4. Add in 6 for good measure (men also have this one).
You can see how different daily ratios of these could have a woman pounding out her lust with another guy while the next day she’s at home making rationalizations about why she cheated on her BF, while massaging him and chatting about the weather.
You see, her emotion with her BF is accurate and true. AT THE TIME.
When she’s fucking the other guy, that emotion is waay gone. It’s just a memory. There’s no actual feeling. It may be there, but it’s overwhelmed.
They do what feels right.
And they can turn off the tap for each of these emotions at will.
If you’re beta and appease her, the Sexual Attraction tap runs right down. She feels guilty about leaving you, but the FEELING is no longer there. She needs several strings running together.
It’s why it seems like a contradiction and for her like an emotional see-saw: it is. You need to keep her off-balance because this actually how she works. You’re pumping about a dozen different emotional flues here. You’re maintaining an energized state. It’s like keeping a ball in the air with a hair dryer pointed upwards.
Her attraction to you is an active state. You have to maintain it. It can make her look like a slut, a capricious monster. From one perspective, she is. But this is just her form. You can look at it a completely different way and say: she just needs to be properly tooled.
It’s why women like it when they’re gamed. It’s actually what they want. They WANT to like their man. It’s our job to help them out.
What *we* don’t realize, when we act like Beta males, is that it’s OUR responsibility to be Alpha for our women. Any man reading this stuff or being even remotely aware of the social psychology of women who refuses to do this has no right to complain about his woman losing interest. Period.
A woman who doesn’t think she would succumb to what looks like baser motivations has simply not been thoroughly tested. She needs to put herself in the situation. Most women will fail, by which I mean, live up to their actual natures. Which is not failing at all:
They’re just failing at being superficially Loyal and Appropriate. The truth is, they’re being exactly what they are, but we just mistook what they are. It’s really not their fault.
What pisses me off is that, when not in that emotional state, they can then turn around and CLAIM that they’re honest and true. Yes, for this second they are. But not one second later.
Cognitive dissonance. As men, we fall victim to it. Women are convinced by themselves: How They Feel Right Now About Themselves, so we believe them.
It means they get to never take responsibility for anything emotional. And because they think emotionally (feeling is what matters), it makes women extremely dangerous. Women see the danger in other women, it’s one of the many reasons they’re hard on each other.
Doesn’t mean they’re whores. Though it can.
BTW, men also have this ability . But like all things male, it’s a pale shadow of the variegated female variety. We’re missing that extra gene, we just have a stubby little y.
As MEN, we can manage fewer threads. Like this:
Example: Feelings going through a man:
1 Damn I like multiple orgasms AND
2. My GF is fascinating (emotional attachment A) AND
3. MY GF is hot (Physical attachment A) AND
4. That girl is hot (Weaker emotional attachment B / physical attachment B) AND
5. I want people to respect me AND…
That’s about it.
For women (and men), Being of Strong Character starts with being able to recognize individual strands of these processes and separate them from the others. Building better character depends on appropriately controlling, burying or emphasizing these strands.
GAME is modifying your behaviour to affect the ratios of emotional threads in others, mostly the opposite sex.
In my new view, as opposed to my morally simplistic and facile old view, it’s morally incumbent on a guy to understand a woman and play her well (traditional women call this Being A Man) so that her natural ability to confuse the emotional strands does not fuck you both up.
You can also use this to your advantage by doing it regardless and for a whole host of other motives. Like selling cars. Car salesmen, btw, are usually great at natural game.
Men
If I’m with more than one woman, my brain treats the two as different animals: I can actually appreciate them both. As it happens, I’ve actually been in love with both. While being infatuated with a third. And admiring a fourth.
But it’s different: apples and oranges. It really is. My brain can actually keep them separate. I can keep the strands from mixing.
It’s not just bad boy fucking two girls (it partly is); I can actually feel deeply for several women. Or superficially. Or just have fun in the sack. Or just enjoy another woman’s intellectual company.
You could also be cold and just fuck all kinds of women, but this is not emotional complexity. It’s just emotional deadness. Few men who game are like this. We have emotions.
Game is like stripping out the inactive ingredients from a traditional medicine and keeping the single active ingredient. And then concentrating it and dialing it up.
Take that pill, and there’s no more reason to consult the witch doctor of popular psychology.
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@ Biktopia,
I hope this has all been useful. It’s for women in whom I see a glimpse of ethical or rational behaviour.
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@Whitewoman,
>>>>>>Is it even remotely possible for women to take responsibility for any single choice they ever make that doesn’t turn out well?
YES. I would ask the same of the men here. Is it possible that your marriage ended because you acted like a jerk?
Um, … Yes. It’s possible. Just not the way you think.
She and her family didn’t think I was a jerk. They thought I was a Nice Guy. Loyal and great and supportive.
A lot of women think men are jerks without realizing that their own shit-testing behaviour is designed to fuck situations up. You’re a woman, I don’t expect you to understand. You can’t. The blinders are on full force.
I was a jerk. I didn’t game my wife. I was Ignorant. But the Law of Female Behaviour does not accept Ignorance as an excuse.
I learned too late to save that relationship. And when I figured it out, I learned: Why settle?
So, sincerely,
Fuck you.
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[…] Roissy – “DC is Not a Chick Mecca“, “Why Game Will Continue to be Relevant” […]
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Gorb… all true but there is a dynamic you didn’t hit upon.
Hormones, the little chemical chimeras that make a woman eight different creatures all at one. Her bitchiness, her sexual drive, her self image, energy level, hunger and about everything else is filtered through and probably ruled by, to some degree the female hormone levels.
Ovulating women are easier for men to get along with.. but it brings out serious cattiness between women. Fast forward a about two weeks…
Bloating isn’t the only physical & mental change that happens when nature says:
“Times up on this baby-hotel, tear it down and flush it”.
Enter the dragon: her PMS is characterized by anxiety, irritability and mood swings. These feelings are usually relieved with the onset of bleeding. Most likely, this type relates to the balance between estrogen and progesterone. If estrogen predominates, anxiety occurs. If there’s more progesterone, depression may be a complaint.
There is a serious ebb and flow, and it can be timed (about 28 days, give or take depending on the given female) and planned for. Asking a woman is pretty gauche, but take a glance in her waste basket when you drain the lizzard at her place, it will tell you when you should be hitting it tonight or hitting someone else.
Unless you foolishly moved your girls under one roof… hello harem effect.
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Gorby
Nicely put.
For all the hand-wringing on MRA sites about women’s inconsistency and/or ability to hold contradictory positions, this is the one beam that hardcore MRA types should take out of their own eye before beholding the mote in their sister’s eye.
Specifically, I can’t count the number of times I’ve read, from various MRA types, that, in return for beta-style material provision / a roof over their heads / a father for their children / etc, they deserve a slender, trim nymphet-o-matic.
That’s not how it works.
What these guys fail to realize — probably because most of them are the type that has never been on the receiving end of intense attraction — is that attraction and economics are orthogonal.
Economically:
I provide the material goods and the father-figure role, she provides the housework, cooking, mothering, childbirth, etc. I take care of the financial shit, you fix the computers.
Etc. etc.
You scratch my back, I scratch yours.
Admittedly, feminism has fucked with this part of the equation, especially with couples who are so foolhardy as to outfit a kitchen with 2 refrigerators and no sink (i.e., two breadwinners and no helpmeet).
In terms of attraction:
I provide the alpha, she provides the hot physically fit nymph-o-matic.
This is still how things work; feminism hasn’t touched this equation with a fourteen-foot pole, and probably can’t since it’s too biologically hardwired.
The MRAs’ problem arises when they feel entitled to the attraction-side goods, even though they are only bartering with the economic-side goods.
The women’s problem (not just feminists’ problem, although that’s the ultimate origin) arises when they feel entitled to the economic-side goods, even though they are only bartering with the attraction-side goods (and that only temporarily).
The situation is in fact more symmetrical than many in this sphere would like to think. Fortunately, in the last decade the answer keys have become available online.
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Gorby
Unless we have ADD/ADHD.
Not the fake I-want-extra-time-on-the-SAT “learning difference” type, but the real type. The “I can’t even finish my own sentences” type.
Because of an exceptionally weird and dysfunctional childhood, coupled with an unfortunately high childhood IQ, I was essentially a complete social retard growing up — I didn’t relate to other boys at all. Didn’t relate well, didn’t relate poorly — just didn’t relate. Period. Luckily I was gifted with enough athletic ability to earn an automatic “in” on sports teams, else I would have existed entirely outside the purview of traditional male hierarchies and social groups.
But, for some weird reason I always grokked girls and their weird schizophrenic way of seeing the world. In fact, my learning curve has almost been the antithesis of most guys’ here — I essentially had to learn from scratch how to relate to other dudes, not unlike the way a lot of guys here have had to learn from scratch how to relate to women. Luckily, this isn’t as much of an issue, as men can very easily form relationships based entirely on mutual interests or pursuits (women are basically incapable of this).
Now it all makes perfect sense — my ADD/ADHD brain is basically a chick brain, but with male interests. It’s the perfect natural-game machine.
In fact, when I take ADHD medicine — I have prescriptions that I pop when I have to sit down and work for 10+ straight hours — I notice a tangible drop in my ability to relate to the fairer sex.
In fact, this might even be a viable solution for engineer-type super-focused-male-brain type guys who want to get better at game: Give them sort of “reverse ritalin” pill that mimics the effects of ADD/ADHD.
A game pill!
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Natural Alpha versus Reformed Beta
Ignoramuses often mention how Game is not real Alpha. Most of the time, this is BS.
But you can see the limits of game for non-natural Alpha guys on the upper edges of the playing field.
I’m just a wannabe, but I do comfortably well and not much holds me back.
But man can push game to the edge. And the best of us fuck up and slip. Those of us who arrived at game from nowhere often lose our way.
Situation:
Delicious 27 yo Persian 8.7-9.0 works in coffee shop 1/2 block from my place.
She turns out to be as sharp as a razor blade, obviously a Girl Game maestro dismissive of male attention. Social Work Masters student. Not a stupid slut; serious brain cells. Intellectual depth. Thinker. Speaks 4 languages (3 we share). Charming as sweet wine on silken ice cream. Absolutely intoxicating. Magnificent creature.
Been working at it for two weeks. Got up to sit-downs (15 min me-initiated, 25 min she-initiated) on-site during work hours. Phone number this afternoon, and invitation to text if I have time early this week.
Took my time; this one is a slow but steady build gal for me, from where I sit (ca. 6; but I can normally easily hold my own in any conversation on any subject). She’s at the upper end of anything I’ve tapped in this country, without away field advantage.
And she’s a conversational genius, sparring with me. Multilingual puns.
Women this hot this intelligent are like Rare Earth Metals found only in one mine in nowheresville, China: these woman are monopolized by people who are usually not me.
Hard. To. Breathe. In. Presence.
She’s so flusteringly sweat-inducing, that I’ve reached my functional edge. I’m losing frame. She makes me want to just go up to her and beg her.
I’ve been textbook and in best form. But standard game is insufficient.
I stumbled slightly on her phone number this afternoon.
In this situation, I just don’t have enough game to do this on a practical level.
If a guy really tooled women for a living and hated them, he could do this without blinking.
But Betatude dies hard.
And shooting from 6 to 9: You need tight game and good frame and the calm measure to make creative badgery on the fly as if you were talking to a college prof.
There’s a limit to what game can do without making you want to cry like a little girl.
@Epoxytocin No. 87, I need your AHDH/ADD game pill.
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Now for the relevance for game in a LTR:
Persian Girl I’m trying not to crash and burn with (this is the situation where fear, fear of loss is your deadly enemy and it’s getting me).
Imagine being in a LTR with her.
If you stop gaming this girl, you won’t even see her dust. Her options are Every Other Male She Ever Meets Every Second Of Every Day.
She could eat you for lunch and then have your best friend for post-lunch mopups.
And tell me game isn’t important.
Whatever.
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Poxy
THANK YOU.
Er…yeah, that’s how it usually works. Girls are always fixin’ computers.
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@Gorby….
“”Persian Girl I’m trying not to crash and burn with (this is the situation where fear, fear of loss is your deadly enemy and it’s getting me).
Imagine being in a LTR with her.
If you stop gaming this girl, you won’t even see her dust. Her options are Every Other Male She Ever Meets Every Second Of Every Day.
She could eat you for lunch and then have your best friend for post-lunch mopups.””
Without game, we’re lost…with game…we have hand.
The problem becomes when we lose our long-term strategy and take what we’re doing seriously and get a sense of “loss”…
I wrote that “#4 reason” would be “Guys need it”.
But I think we treat game as a solution to every situation.
What I’ve recently learned is that part of game is to know when to walk away.
I wonder sometimes whether since I’ve discovered game that it’s made me overly confident and that has made me invest more time than is otherwise reasonable, or intelligent in some “targets”.
Also, some girls are masters of game and the shit-tests they put us through often only lead to more….shit tests.
I’d love to see a post here advising when to walk away, or better yet, how to walk away.
I think I know the answer to this dilemma.
The minute you feel like you have to have her…that’s the time to walk away, or as Roissy put it so aptly in another post: “Stop, drop and roll away”.
In your case I could see myself going either way….realizing the investment I’ve made is too high to walk away, but feeling as though this may not be going anywhere and the response to my game not making any “progress”….leading to over-gaming, leading to “try-hard”…
Then I see myself ‘over-thinking’ it.
Maybe in your situation, you walk into that cafe….with a hot friend of yours (pivot) and look like you’re having a blast and have target serve you, then disappear for a few days to a week.
But it begs my original question: “Does ‘game’ have limits?”
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RE: Epoxytocin & Gorbachev
I’ve noticed that a lot of guys are put-off by the idea that “gaming” a girl (or “being alpha”) is a never-ending job in an LTR. These guys usually start spouting the whole “I would never enter into an LTR with a girl who needed me to be alpha in any way, because that would mean that she is a worthless slut**,” or “Girls who need to be gamed are not quality women.”
I just wanted to point out that this is as absurd as the woman who refuses to do herself up because “guys should be interested in her brain.”
No matter how you swing it, girls are going to be interested in alpha, and guys are going to be interested in looks. You can sit on your pedestal all day long and wax poetic about how real women like stability and real men like intelligence, but it’s not going to change a thing.
For those who enjoy taking things uber-literally, a footnote: Certainly, there are limits–girls who need an excessive amount of alpha drama in their lives are not great LTR potential, just as guys who need a perfect 10 foreverever is not great LTR potential.
—
**In the not-good way. Heh.
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Okay, everybody on this thread needs to just stop using “begs the question.”
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@Gorby
@epoxy
That is men’s responsibility, or to be more realistic for most guys, to act alphaish enough.
However women could make that MUCH easier, particularly in LTR’s/marriages. They used to do in America. And they still do in many other countries. LTR women may shit test everywhere, but they also used to have the frame in marriages and still do in many other cultures that a good man is naturally leading and that his woman should seek to follow him, rather than undermining him whenever there’s any opportunity. Check out American 50s shows and commercials. Wasn’t unique to then. That was just a continuation. Though I think maybe the entry of so many women into all kinds of previously male only (or almost) jobs during the WWII years, caused more of an effort to reassert basic gender roles.
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Gorbachev–
So you’re back in the US now? I had the impression you were still centered in S. Korea.
Weird. WAY away from the usual social worker in all kinds of ways.
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“She turns out to be as sharp as a razor blade, obviously a Girl Game maestro dismissive of male attention. Social Work Masters student. Not a stupid slut; serious brain cells. Intellectual depth. Thinker. ”
Are you sure you’re not idealizing her somewhat because of her appearance? I do this myself sometimes — if a girl is really hot, I overestimate her IQ by at least 10 points.
The test you have to apply is — pretend she’s fugly. Is she a real genius now?
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“YIKES
*CHIC NOIR takes off running for the hills*”
when our prey runs before us we want to fuck and kill even more
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http://www.i-am-bored.com/bored_link.cfm?link_id=49697
gnarrrr!
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lololllllzz
u guys talk 2much
u should be out bangin and wangin not with dix but wth chix lollololzzolo
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Gorby,
Yes, Iranian girls are just about the hottest, and smart. You have to maintain your frame. Although “DON’T BE NEEDY” is a key principle you are in danger of violating, I think from reading your description that even more critical for you is to project “I AM THE PRIZE” and really convince yourself that you’re someone she’d be lucky to get. (If you look at it objectively imagining other people in your respective positions with your respective attributes, you will see that this is actually true.)
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Polymath–
I think there’s a very strong self selection or selection effect in Iranian girls in the US, just as there is among S.Asian Indians here (but less so in some other places, though still often a good bit).
Iranian families tend to be professionals (and a few rich) who came to the US fleeing the Shaw not so long before his fall in 1979, or fleeing the radical Islamist revolutionary guard not long afterwards. We especially tended to give the later political asylum. And they were from Iran’s upper classes.
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@walawala
Without game, we’re lost…with game…we have hand.
The problem becomes when we lose our long-term strategy and take what we’re doing seriously and get a sense of “loss”…
What I’ve recently learned is that part of game is to know when to walk away.
I’m unlikely to walk away from this one voluntarily. And that’s the problem: The whole I Don’t Care thing, … I temporarily care. Maybe she’s not all that, but she’s a lot of that.
I’d love to see a post here advising when to walk away, or better yet, how to walk away.
I think I know the answer to this dilemma.
The minute you feel like you have to have her…that’s the time to walk away, or as Roissy put it so aptly in another post: “Stop, drop and roll away”.
I know it. But, … damn.
In your case I could see myself going either way….realizing the investment I’ve made is too high to walk away, but feeling as though this may not be going anywhere and the response to my game not making any “progress”….leading to over-gaming, leading to “try-hard”…
Then I see myself ‘over-thinking’ it.
Having alternate company is a possible desire-dampening solution. It appears to have worked.
Maybe in your situation, you walk into that cafe….with a hot friend of yours (pivot) and look like you’re having a blast and have target serve you, then disappear for a few days to a week.
I’ve already made a call to Dedicated Wingwoman.
But it begs my original question: “Does ‘game’ have limits?”
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@Doug1
However women could make that MUCH easier, particularly in LTR’s/marriages. They used to do in America. And they still do in many other countries. LTR women may shit test everywhere, but they also used to have the frame in marriages and still do in many other cultures that a good man is naturally leading and that his woman should seek to follow him, rather than undermining him whenever there’s any opportunity.
Absolutely true: This is my primary response when American woman complain about men not settling down.
Also my primary complaint about American women: they undermine men when they try to be Alpha; but they want Alpha. It means they sexually want the most Alpha man they can get, but they don’t let a permanent mate BE alpha.
Feminist has done this. It’s made society even more schizophrenic.
A good reason to find your wife in, say, Korea/Japan/W.Europe.
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@Doug1
Gorbachev–
So you’re back in the US now? I had the impression you were still centered in S. Korea.
I get sent overseas a lot for extended periods. It’s a living. Been in the US for a year. Looking forward to Korea soon.
Weird. WAY away from the usual social worker in all kinds of ways.
Check out unusual. I have details so that anyone with experience with this cultural subset could help me out.
(Some identifying details changed)
Parents: Physics prof, banker; sibling, PhD Sorbonne; sibling in UK, LSE
Speaks Persian, German, English and French fluently (My German is better, but only just)
Pianist. Oboe. Latin dancer.
Undergrad Brown, humanities and something esoteric
Doing masters in social work to get certification so she can do social policy development for UN and work in the field. Taking year out.
Classy. Not a party girl. Poised. Charming to the last syllable. Seems profoundly unslutty (instincts muddled here; she’s just too hot).
Intellectual – Elite cultural signals confusing me. Comes from a Trans-Atlantic educated family. To me, behaviour subset most closely resembles French educated class / elite.
Very charming and touchy-feely (huge IOI; ??). Could be cultural. Sensing the same Educated French upper-class reserve right underneath.
*killer*
Trying hard not to pedestalize, but it’s fucking hard.
Topics of conversation so far (mostly hers):
– New York City and Seoul
– Mediaeval moral plays and the development of religious resistance in early modern English politics
– Reconstructing ancient music, Roman/Greek/Persian
– Zimbabwe
– Latin dance (provides an excellent in)
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@Original JB
“She turns out to be as sharp as a razor blade, obviously a Girl Game maestro dismissive of male attention. Social Work Masters student. Not a stupid slut; serious brain cells. Intellectual depth. Thinker. ”
Are you sure you’re not idealizing her somewhat because of her appearance? I do this myself sometimes — if a girl is really hot, I overestimate her IQ by at least 10 points.
The test you have to apply is — pretend she’s fugly. Is she a real genius now?
Genius, no; sharp as a tack, yes; I’ll put money on her being at the top of her class all the time.
I may have overestimated her IQ. Even if I did, it’s still higher than most ugly smart women I know.
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@Gorby/Doug1
The not giving off a “Needy” vibe…I think guys are by their nature “deal-makers”…we need to seal the deal. In business there is nothing wrong with calling several times to check the status of a contract or contact. THAT is Alpha….
But it’s important to remember your target audience in all cases.
Hot Iranian girl vs the status of an advertising contract with a Telco….
The only thing I can think of from my own past experience with similiarly aloof girls is to mirror them….
I think the willingness to walk away….or walking away will drive them nuts.
Context is important….not showing up for a few days because you’re “busy”….
Not texting as often as before….let her wonder if SHE did something wrong.
Always working from the position of abundance.
Perhaps amping up the negs? I don’t know the dynamic, but sounds like this is a conversation of two smart people. Are you keeping up the teasing in a smart way?
Also, part of gaming one girl, could be gaming another–just to make sure you’re not falling into the ‘one-itis’ trap of over-thinking it to the point that any lack of moving this forward on your timeline would be seen as a failure.
Your inner game is more important in this case I think.
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@greatbooksformen
u guys talk 2much
u should be out bangin and wangin not with dix but wth chix lollololzzolo
Don’t you be a worryin’.
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Is that what you tell yourself when you fuck someone else’s wife. And he had 1/10 the money you had?
Yeah, it was your Game.
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@Polymath
Yes, Iranian girls are just about the hottest, and smart. You have to maintain your frame. Although “DON’T BE NEEDY” is a key principle you are in danger of violating, I think from reading your description that even more critical for you is to project “I AM THE PRIZE” and really convince yourself that you’re someone she’d be lucky to get. (If you look at it objectively imagining other people in your respective positions with your respective attributes, you will see that this is actually true.)
This isn’t usually a problem. This time, I find myself grossly outclassed or evenly matched in everything. Even raw book knowledge: seldom happens to me with women. Fuck. I can only imagine how good her salsa is.
@Polymath–
Iranian families tend to be professionals (and a few rich) who came to the US fleeing the Shaw not so long before his fall in 1979, or fleeing the radical Islamist revolutionary guard not long afterwards. We especially tended to give the later political asylum. And they were from Iran’s upper classes.
Family lives all over Europe and some in DC/NYC.
Only thing helping me out is it appears as if she’s slumming it, taking a break (I’m guessing from monumental family pressure).
I remember those rich international Persian guys have mondo natural game, too.
I guess I will be testing the limit of game.
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If she’s “not letting you BE alpha” you have already lost the game, haha.
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@walawala
@Gorby/Doug1
The not giving off a “Needy” vibe…I think guys are by their nature “deal-makers”…we need to seal the deal. In business there is nothing wrong with calling several times to check the status of a contract or contact. THAT is Alpha….
But it’s important to remember your target audience in all cases.
Hot Iranian girl vs the status of an advertising contract with a Telco….
There are some cultural cues here I need to nail down. Not sure what makes acceptable alpha.
She offered her # after I nearly fumbled it so we can possibly meet up for latin dancing some time this week.
The only thing I can think of from my own past experience with similiarly aloof girls is to mirror them….
I think the willingness to walk away….or walking away will drive them nuts.
This was my plan. But hard to do.
Context is important….not showing up for a few days because you’re “busy”…. Not texting as often as before….let her wonder if SHE did something wrong.
Always working from the position of abundance.
Perhaps amping up the negs? I don’t know the dynamic, but sounds like this is a conversation of two smart people. Are you keeping up the teasing in a smart way?
She’s very academic; she has that French/European-ish educated attitude, talks up, not down. Lots of teasing going on, but I had to dial it into the stratosphere because of her intellectual nature. There’s no American equivalent to this very stereotypical French – Educated intellectual class attitude. I’m not sure if that’s what it is in her case, but it smells the same.
Also, part of gaming one girl, could be gaming another–just to make sure you’re not falling into the ‘one-itis’ trap of over-thinking it to the point that any lack of moving this forward on your timeline would be seen as a failure.
There’s no one-itis going on.
Frame has to save me here.
But lurkers, check out the limit of game. When you see the wall looming up, might be good to slow down.
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“aragorn
“Mike
ps, begging the question means the conclusion assumes the premise. don’t use terms you don’t understand.
Wrong, douche-a-roni, the Feminist’s treat. He was right and you were wrong.
Your advice, “Get a prenup,” begs the question of whether you should get married at all.
Thus, he used it properly, and you confirmed that you are the worst kind of idiot:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning-Kruger_effect”
the statement “if you get married get a prenup” does not presume someone wants to get married. you’re over your head little man and wikipedia won’t help you.”
no response from pussy Mike.
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@Comment_Whatever
“In my new view, as opposed to my morally simplistic and facile old view, it’s morally incumbent on a guy to understand a woman and play her well (traditional women call this Being A Man) so that her natural ability to confuse the emotional strands does not fuck you both up. ”
Is that what you tell yourself when you fuck someone else’s wife. And he had 1/10 the money you had?
Yeah, it was your Game.
You apparently read nothing written here dude. Or you read it but don’t process it.
– Why should I feel guilty about fucking someone else’s wife? Take it up with the wife.
Feminism says: She not property. I didn’t steal from him. Her sexuality is hers to give to whomever she wants to. Branches of feminism also say that monogamy is nothing more than a way to exert patriarchal control over women. So women should be free. Not my problem. You have a problem with it? Take it up with women and the feminist establishment.
– Money: My money has nothing to do with anything. I spend as little on women as I can. They like my company or I don’t spend time with them.
How much do you think I make? I’m not rich. I’m not hugely handsome. Average height, average looks (6). Several degrees, but lots of people have those. If I lose my job, I’m fucked. So?
It’s game, retard.
Process when you read. Stop sitting in your basement.
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@Català
It means they sexually want the most Alpha man they can get, but they don’t let a permanent mate BE alpha.
If she’s “not letting you BE alpha” you have already lost the game, haha.
Oops. Worded wrong.
Bitching and complaining and training the feminist in us. They demand it. If they get it, they despise us.
But damn, do they keep claiming it’s how the world should be.
I need sleep.
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Original JB, did you see my response above? I find the discussion interesting. A year ago I would’ve agreed with your political prescription.
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@Gorbachev
Sometimes its fruitlessly superfluous to try to save someone, wake em up etc. Its like you can only help someone when they are ready to receive it.
I have this thing about helping grown men who are beta. I really hate it. This part of me really wants him to stay out of the dating scene, and its not a fear/loss thing. Its like how Roissy hates herbs.
I would prefer the 30+ year-old to stay in his mom’s basement and die. D.A. & his pathetic moaning helped crystallize this for me. OTOH I have no problem helping a teenager or a college student grab a handle on his failures in love.
But its highly acerbated when numbnuts is really high IQ and really arrogant. They know better then you, except their field performances show the truth.
There are times I hate beta men, and times I hate radfeminist indoctrinated woman, but I still haven’t given up on humanity.
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Gorby,
This time, I find myself grossly outclassed or evenly matched in everything. Even raw book knowledge: seldom happens to me with women.
When I said to project “I AM THE PRIZE”, I meant that you only have to believe that you’re outclassing all the other men she knows — you’re not making that type of comparison with her directly. Now it is true that intellectual girls will reject any man they think cannot keep up with them, but as long as you can stay with her you’ll be OK, with game you can dominate her in other ways than intellectual.
If there is any particular area in whcih you clearly surpass her intellectually (for example if you are a scientist and her education is liberal arts and not math-heavy) that is better; but what would practically guarantee success is if you can intellectually surpass her in an area she really cares about. This is why grad students are so vulnerable to professors, it’s not that the professor is smarter than them but that he is smarter in the particular area they have chosen to pursue seriously.
Anyway, you don’t have to outshine her, as long as you can outshine the other men currently gaming her, and why shouldn’t you? Just KNOW that you are superior to them and it will come across, don’t try to demonstrate it directly.
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Gorbachev,
It was very good to read your post, without trying to stretch to much but your story gave me an easier way to express what i want to say.
I understand the nature of people can sometimes be annoying, i wouldn’t say it is purely women trait, but people trait, no? And also that they might be unaware of this,,, I think we say the same here,with a slight modification, I would say, i love people, i just know better now.
I’m actually pro game, i just think that me and you or Roissy or others here, use it differently,
About the cheating:
Who are you hurting? The married women that cheats? I can very well understand your reasoning.
I know for myself that even if a want to be with a married guy, im to covard to do so and i cant as i am morally challenged. i don’t want to judge anyone, i am interested in the psychology behind it.
These are the thoughts that goes through my head, i want to know, how can good people, do immoral things, (and what is that anyway, where do we draw a line) and how can downright evil people sometimes even do good.
For myself, i try to select out the good people, and i use my game for this, i try to be nice, and honest, and try to read the other persons intention and by that, some people walks right into the trap, others are genuinly nice back. It helps to screen out people and makes a lot of doors accidentally left open. I also use it for own benefit, and i stretch what society once have told me. Its just that some things i just cant do, but i see that this is how the world spins.
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Gorby,
I disagree with your assessment of the intellectual European woman. I have been in Germany almost a year and find them as horny, if not more openly horny, then the stupid sorority girls I used to spend time with. Though I give you that overhearing german girls’ conversations involves less inane BS than I hear between english speakers.
Also, European women are even more entitled than the average American woman. I see more men here pushing strollers and carrying children then I ever have in my life.
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The little thumbs sure slow down the loading of this blog….it takes forever now. And they’re clearly a disagree/agree rating, not a quality of comment rating. Biased as ever.
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yeah, it became slow as hell to load with this stupid buttons… Roissy is keeping relationship with us using DREAD.
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ephebophile-
I have this thing about helping grown men who are beta. I really hate it. This part of me really wants him to stay out of the dating scene, and its not a fear/loss thing. Its like how Roissy hates herbs. (I hope I got the italics code right).
I’m relatively new to the scene here but man, what a wake-up call this has all been. I think I took to it pretty quickly due to my experiences- what I’ve read here and elsewhere in the community as connected dots that were puzzling me for a long time. What’s most interesting though, is the journey in general. Someone mentioned how it’s impossible to just “tell someone how it is” and that the knowledge has to be built up systematically. I agree, because even being OPEN to it wasn’t enough for me to come to understand it all without a good amount of reading.
The more arrogant/closed-off/insecure a guy is, the more unlikely he is to accept a world view that rivals his own. Some people just can’t handle the red pill.
I’ve tried to talk to women about this while I’ve been on my path to discovery and I’ve predictably gotten nowhere.
Anyways, keep up the good work guys, and thanks.
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Anookie,
It’s too much to ask people to objectively rate comments based on quality independent of whether they agree or disagree. Most of the time people are going to think those who disagree with them are making dumb arguments or have incorrect assumptions, and therefore that the quality of their comments is low. (For the record, although I disagree with your comment that I am now responding too, I did give it a thumbs up, but that’s because I’m an unusually logical person [and also because hot girls should be encouraged to stick around….]).
The good part is that in the aggregate, the ratings do track quality fairly well, even though individuals are really mostly just agreeing/disagreeing.
Another way to do it which other blogs have is to make each comment respond to a previous comment and nest them so you can judge a comment by how many replies, replies to replies, etc., it got. But I hate blogs that do this because often you want to say things to several people at once (or just to everyone), so chrono order is best.
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@Polymath
Anyway, you don’t have to outshine her, as long as you can outshine the other men currently gaming her, and why shouldn’t you? Just KNOW that you are superior to them and it will come across, don’t try to demonstrate it directly.
One thing that struck me: four comments about how great her father was. She’s in an admirational state with him.
Says a lot.
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Game is needed for marriage, it’s not just for pickup artists. I’m way on the other end of the spectrum from Roissy. Now that my wife has passed away, there is no woman in the world who can honestly say she’s had sex with me.
I married and settled down with a deeply religious loving woman. A Good Woman. I still almost destroyed that marriage, by believing what she said she wanted instead of paying attention to what she really wanted. I was ignorant, but ignorance is no excuse when breaking the law, and it’s ten times worse when dealing with women.
We did the dissatisfaction, nagging, etc. routine, and the more I gave, the less I got. We went to counseling, I was the bad guy, but following what the counselor said just made things worse.
Then I went back to the same counselor, but he had his divorce with his fellow social worker and had seen the light. Instead of appeasement, I was told the opposite. Be confident, even arrogant on occasion. Make sure that she suffers consequences when she goes against you or treats you poorly (after all, the opposite is true). BE. THE. MAN.
My marriage became stronger than ever, we raised our children and dealt with life together. I still knew practically nothing about Game, but it sufficed.
I am not interested in another relationship. Finding another lady like my wife would be like winning at roulette; I did it once, the chances of twice are low indeed. I’m interested in what Roissy says because I want to help my family. Yes, my daughters as well. Armed with knowledge, I can steer them away from thugs (my wife was turned off by thugs, but that isn’t the case for at least one daughter) and mentor their ‘nice guy’ boyfriends.
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@biktopia
Since you’re trying hard to be reasonable, you seem a bit more genuine than most female posters here, and you’re actually engaging me as a human, and not just being an ignorant fembot, I gave it some thought and I’m giving you a hefty chunk of my current philosophy.
It was very good to read your post, without trying to stretch to much but your story gave me an easier way to express what i want to say.
I appreciate that you’re trying to open your mind. Keep doing it and your life will improve. I generally find that most women are incapable of it. It genuinely surprises me when I meet a woman who can challenge her own most basic assumptions. I don’t know if you can do this – but I do see a seed of doubt.
It’s the only reason I respond to you (as a woman writing about male-female relationships and game).
In the world of men and Famous Male Philosophers, the seed of doubt is what leads to wisdom and understanding. It’s not Feeling and Faith: It’s Doubt and inquiry.
Certainty comes through trial and error and testing and experience.
I’m certain about many things because I’ve tested ideas thoroughly and continue to test and refine them. There’s no “feeling” about it: something works, or it doesn’t. You observe it or you don’t. It produces results you think are acceptable or it doesn’t.
And the Seed of Doubt is the beginning of this.
I understand the nature of people can sometimes be annoying, i wouldn’t say it is purely women trait, but people trait, no? And also that they might be unaware of this,,, I think we say the same here,with a slight modification, I would say, i love people, i just know better now.
I’m actually pro game, i just think that me and you or Roissy or others here, use it differently,
I may use it differently, but I’ve chosen a lifestyle. For good reasons. I am actually honest with myself.
I won’t get married again unless it’s to someone I feel justified giving myself to, in an environment that is conducive to doing it.
I can give myself to a woman without getting married. Marriage has been utterly ruined and destroyed legally and culturally as an institution in the West. There is zero incentive for men to be married. The only one remaining benefit might be sex and children. We can get sex (far more easily) without marriage (men: get game).
So only children are left out. Weep, Babylon, for our social future: feminism.
If you’re a man who likes women, I ask you, Biktopia, what are we supposed to do? What are our best options?
About the cheating:
Who are you hurting? The married women that cheats? I can very well understand your reasoning.
I know for myself that even if a want to be with a married guy, im to covard to do so and i cant as i am morally challenged.
You may be shocked to hear this, given my choice of lifestyle, but: You’re not morally challenged. I respect a moral view.
Hold on to some moral values. Keep your values and men, and women, will like you for it. You will like you for it. Respect yourself.
But to truly *have* moral values, and not just parrot them, you have to understand yourself.
My advice: Don’t just believe in your moral virtue because you have faith in it. That’s a delusion. Instead, find some REASON to believe in it, something logical and powerful. Because unless you do, your values will be whittled away by the sad reality of our times, and the basic nature of your own instincts. It’s why women often find themselves unhappy. And why men find themselves in all the situations they’re in.
If you try to understand your own built-in weaknesses, instead of thinking that you’re pure and morally superior, you will find those weaknesses easier to control and other people – like me – will find it harder to manipulate you through them. You will be a better woman and a better human being.
Convert your moral certainty from faith into moral certainty from reason and knowledge.
But do keep the moral certainty. Believe me, your men will appreciate you for it and value you for it.
i don’t want to judge anyone, i am interested in the psychology behind it.
Most of what men do with regard to game is just reaction and response to what women put out. So the best way for you to understand it is to look at your own and other womens’ behaviour, if you want to understand why we need game.
These are the thoughts that goes through my head, i want to know, how can good people, do immoral things, (and what is that anyway, where do we draw a line) and how can downright evil people sometimes even do good.
For myself, i try to select out the good people, and i use my game for this, i try to be nice, and honest, and try to read the other persons intention and by that, some people walks right into the trap, others are genuinly nice back. It helps to screen out people and makes a lot of doors accidentally left open. I also use it for own benefit, and i stretch what society once have told me. Its just that some things i just cant do, but i see that this is how the world spins.
Examine your moral certainties. A lot of the time, what appears to be “good” is just an excuse for not thinking or for being intellectually lazy. It’s just an unexamined social convention. You are beginning to suspect this yourself, I know. It’s why you’re trying to understand why people do Immoral things. You’re no longer just judging them. You’re trying to understand. The beginning of doubt.
A lot of people have suffered because someone believed their values were “good”. Nobody thinks they’re bad. You need to examine all of the motivations and also understand potential consequences and measure them against varying desirable outcomes.
Moral example from marriage:
Most women say they would never cheat. If you examine their behaviour, this is obviously not true (believe me; I can thoroughly back that up). What it means is that: They have not yet been tested.
– They didn’t cheat “emotionally” OR They had Already Moved On in their heads, so the new guy was just a Sign of that OR It’s not cheating because their romantic relationship with their mate is gone anyway OR It was just a mistake because the Man did / is something (most common reason) OR It was a unique momentary lapse that could never happen again OR insert reason here.
– It’s also possible they’re cheating without ever touching another man: They’re not being IN the relationship with their husband, and their married life slowly dies. The fact that the woman hasn’t slept around yet is immaterial. She’s not really there at all, anyway. She betrayed the relationship. Her presence is just a shadow in a dead relationship. Did she ever ask what she did to help create that situation?
Men can do all of this, too. But men usually admit they did something bad, and are forced to take responsibility for it by the woman or by society.
What I hate about women is how they excuse themselves. Out of conveniently self-imposed ignorance.
All of the reasons above are not reasons. They’re rationalizations. They have nothing at all to do with why a woman chose to cheat. The real reason she will cheat – and cheat again – is hidden from her.
This is why men say things like:
“If you want to see if a woman is lying, look at her lips. If they’re moving, she’s lying.”
You think this is woman-hating.
Guess again. It’s a painful observation. There is a REASON why men say these things, something women never consider. They just assume we’re sexist monsters.
Feminists think it’s just anti-female angry trash talk.
Here’s gratuitous angry trash talk:
Fuck off you ignorant feminist whore ingrates.
It’s not cheating that men find most disgusting, as a rule.
Until a woman (and people) ask fundamental questions and confront basic behaviour, a woman will continue to do two things that men like me find disgusting:
1) Be absolutely sure of things when she has no right to be, because she doesn’t understand herself (and therefore can’t be trusted);
2) Break her word and promises and then make up excuses as to why she did it, instead of just owning up to it.
*THAT* is why you can’t trust what women actually say. They don’t understand their own motivations, and their first instinct is to guard against emotional confrontation. Their reasons are just excuses. They have a mental block: they feel, they don’t think. They convince themselves.
Other women – the Sisterhood – just say “Yes Yes you’re right”, “Maybe if we do this” (don’t confront reality or take responsibility) “things will be better.”
But we all know that privately, women are catty and judgmental and snipe at each other and rarely admit what they’re really thinking. There’s nothing more dishonest or more vicious than any group of women.
“Cooperation” and “Consensus” my ass.
That’s why the “Yes, Girrl!” society of women is all about support and comfort. There’s rarely a mote of intellectual value in it. There’s no real self-analysis, self-examination, no assumption of responsibility, no self-correction, no self-betterment, little logic and almost no reason.
And women are the most duplicitous and dishonest with each other. Not with men. They lie to each other almost more often than they breathe.
It’s why smart women ask men for advice about many things; they just don’t trust other women. They vote on which gender to trust with their feet.
In the workplace, in schools, everywhere, women are much more brutal to each other than men: it’s because they women instinctively understand what I’ve just said about women. You can’t trust women based on anything they actually say.
I will qualify this: You cant trust women who believe lies about themselves and don’t understand why they do things.
Why would men, throughout every period in history, always be saying this if there wasn’t something to it?
Women say men are trying to avoid responsibility for X or Y by blaming women and calling them dishonest. That’s a clear case of projection. Being dishonest about feelings and emotions is what women do.
Men can break reason and thinking and logic away from emotion and feeling. They can then suppress their feelings and proceed on logic and “fairness”. Women don’t do this. Dear Lord, this is so obvious to any man in any relationship with any woman that it’s almost not worth saying.
This is why men think women are irrational and capricious and manipulative and unfair. Women can’t see it. They think men do this. We men are simple creatures and most of the time we can be reasoned with. You can get us to sacrifice a lot of things by using pure logic and reason. Even if we don’t want to do it, we usually bow down to reason.
Women make no attempt to understand what motivates them. The same goes for men without Game: Get it or move into the basement and shut up.
I have well-justified contempt for womens’ opinions, when they refuse to acknowledge this.
Men, you want to demonstrate this general observation? Just go up to a woman you’re in some kind of relationship with and have a conversation. Give it about 60 seconds.
Feminists are so willfully blind.
Example:
A discussion of Homeopathy usually boils down to this:
Woman: “But it just feels right. You can feel how it affects your energy.”
Man: “This is total bullshit. There’s no observable effect, and no way this can rationally work. It’s even internally inconsistent.”
Woman: “But it’s the feeling that counts, look how it makes me feel.”
Fork over cash for placebo.
Insert religion – ideologies – new age crap – in place of argument. Insert feel-good or lash-out feminism.
For women it’s about feeling.
Men just don’t respect that. They call it irrational and emotional and illogical, … because it is.
Look at corporate women, female thinkers, female mathematicians: Logical; political; divorcing reason from emotion. They get HUGE respect from men. Men love it. They love working with them. They also, ahem, love having affairs with them.
All my female friends in positions of power who get there because of their logic, reasoning and competence (not HR-department/marketing/desk jockey flunkies) are highly respected by the men as work associates and thinkers. One consistent theme with these women is their ability to 1) take responsibility without making excuses and 2) use logic and reason without polluting it with arbitrary feelings.
This doesn’t mean they’re cold and callous. Often, they’re more morally upright and are better people BECAUSE they’re logical and they think about things.
Men are more naturally like this than women. It’s the basic reason why men call women illogical and petty and emotional and irrational and … wait for it, …
dishonest.
Back to moral certainty.
Moral certainty like this, “I Will Never Do That”, is only half useful. It may stop you from “cheating” or doing something bad, for now, but you’ll break down at some point because you don’t really, truly “feel” or “think” it. A threshold point will be reached where the water just pours over the dam. It may never happen. But it could. That’s the point. It’s weak moralism.
Approach the world with those seeds of doubt you found in your pocket all of a sudden, Biktopia. “Good” and “Bad” are meaningless and have little real value unless you can back them up with understanding.
When I was 20, I had all kinds of moral certainties. The reason? I never thought about them. I just believed them. Now, I have fewer, but the ones I do have are solid. They don’t move easily and the reason is they’re backed up by reason, experience and logic, as well as moral conviction.
I take responsibility for my mistakes. I regret a lot of them.
I have contempt for many peoples’ moral assurances when it comes to men and women. They truly have no idea what they’re talking about. It’s just bullshit.
This is especially true of almost everything that women say about relationships, sex and men.
Always go back to first principles.
Keep asking questions. But primarily ask them of yourself. And when you think you find an answer, … ask yourself again. And again. Never stop.
Never close your mind.
Men Cheating
The reason men cheat is deep and biological. I have a powerful sexual urge to be polygamous. All men do, it’s basic and hard-wired. It is part of male nature.
Women know this. Men want to fool around. If you stop sleeping with your guy, he will want to cheat. He wants sex. Period. Stop judging him for it. His body tells him so. He likes it. He wants it. It’s the single difference that makes him your Man instead of just your Friend.
It is not wrong, or dirty, or a sign of moral weakness, to want to have sex. If you deny your husband sex, you have no reason to complain, if you’re truly honest, if he gets it elsewhere. And he may do that, anyway. It’s male nature.
You can restrain it, and it might work. You have to accept that it might not.
Get used to it.
Note that the more confident and sexually desirable a man is (alpha), the harder he will be to control, sexually. But remember, the biggest and most shocking cheaters are beta males who suddenly get the chance to cheat. They’re shocked and flattered, and BANG they’ll do it without blinking.
Be really awesome for and with your alpha and he might, … actually be more loyal than a beta who just doesn’t have the chance to be disloyal.
Women also want sex, but on different terms. Women think they’re morally superior; they’re not. Men who are not pussy-whipped brainwashed feminized Betas know that there’s something wrong with the way women see themselves, because the facts don’t fit the picture. Women seem to be deluded. You don’t need game to see this. Men talk about it all the time with each other. What the hell is wrong with women? They say one thing, and then do something else. They contradict themselves (lie) all the time.
Women are not angels. They are deeply sexual, “bad” people, like men, but NOT exactly like men. Different.
Sleeping Around
I indulge my nature. I understand it. I have admitted it. All men have this urge. It’s powerful and hard-wired into us. Women have a similar but not identical urge, based on different logic. Denying this is perverse.
I make no moral argument for sleeping around, and enjoying it. But I’m man enough to admit what I do. Also why I do it.
And it’s not only because I’m a hedonist or a horn-dog.
I love talking to women. I love interacting with them. I love traveling with them. They make absolutely amazing companions. They make outstanding lovers, helpmates, and are great human beings. I just appreciate them, and I understand myself.
I can love women and sleep with more than one.
I am not a misogynist. Some PUAs are just after the pussy. Okay, I’m after the pussy. But I’m also after the woman.
Actually, if you think about it, this might just mean, … I like and respect women as people and complete beings a whole lot more than many people who have moral certainties they’ve never examined.
More, anyway, than many men, wheedling Beta-minded men living in worlds of their own delusions, trying to manipulate their way into the lives of these “magical mystical mysterious creatures called women” that they just don’t understand.
– Men who have such contempt for their wives that the last time they gave them any attention can be measured in years.
– Men who assume they’re OWED anything by their wives even if they’re not willing to be Men.
– Men who judge other men and women out of fear.
Well, … I don’t give a shit about that kind of weak moral fear. Beta guys who read this and say Don’t Fuck With My GF/Wife/That Girl I like But Haven’t Asked Out Yet: Then get off your ass and fuck her like a man, you moron. Blame yourself. Or your woman.
Either find a position of strength and come from it, as a woman or a man, or whine into your beer. Grow up and get an intellectual and moral spine worth having.
Biktopia. The world is way bigger and way deeper than your moral certainties allow. But I think you sort-of know that.
Don’t abandon your morals. Change what your moral certainties are based on, give them firmer foundations, and thay’ll be worth something.
Men will value you more if you base your true value on more than just words and pleasant dreams.
More important, an examined inner life is more worth living.
When people around you start saying things that sound great, like feminists and their self-contradictory rationalizations, or religious ideologues, or politicians, take off the glasses they give you and look hard at the fine details.
Roissy – he’s just a hedonist who’s riding the poon train as society bleeds itself into non-existence. The food is running out and he’s figured out how to pilfer the stash.
He makes no excuses or moral arguments. He doesn’t need to.
The question you should ask of guys like Roissy or Assanova is: Given what you’re learning about how it all works, why should he care?
That’s a question that’s worth asking and answering.
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This weekend, I was in a car with two other dudes around 50 years old. One of them was an army colonel who has been happily married for 25 years. Very much an alpha.
The other guy was a recently divorced IT beta. His wife started scheming two years before the divorce…got custody of both his kids and took most of his money. All he got was the house (and the mortgage payments).
When I told him that I got a prenup, he looked at me like I was speaking Dutch. The concept didn’t make any sense to him, but after a little while, he said, “I should have thought of that.”
The army guy and I just looked at each other.
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@Paul
I disagree with your assessment of the intellectual European woman. I have been in Germany almost a year and find them as horny, if not more openly horny, then the stupid sorority girls I used to spend time with. Though I give you that overhearing german girls’ conversations involves less inane BS than I hear between english speakers.
I didn’t say Germans weren’t horny. Europeans are more open about it and mater-of fact, especially Germans. If they cheat on you, they barely feel the need to lie. Half the time your German GF will end up at a swinger’s club, but what can you do? They’re animals in bed. You have to appreciate their honesty. That can make a good LTR (albeit of a different form).
Also, European women are even more entitled than the average American woman. I see more men here pushing strollers and carrying children then I ever have in my life.
OKAY, … try not doing that and see what happens. Be alpha. French women love it. The difference is that they won’t game you as hard as American women and they’re not as full of themselves.
Oh, and they’re crazy hot. There is that.
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Although it was the comment equivalent of a three-volume Russian novel, I have to say that most if not all of the points made by Gorby in his 2.17 p.m. post are correct.
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@sdaedalus
Although it was the comment equivalent of a three-volume Russian novel, I have to say that most if not all of the points made by Gorby in his 2.17 p.m. post are correct.
Biktopia seemed to be the lone female who has posted on this blog – or any blog I’ve seen – that might be grasping the truth, that on some level there’s something wrong with the standard script. It might have just been a moment, but who knows. Perhaps it might sink in a centimetre or two.
Sorry all. Killing time before an episode of hedonistic trampling through morally contestable ground, on a gorgeous day in spring. Just happen to have some time.
I’ve got to watch this tendency. I don’t want to promise succinctitude, but I’ll cut it down in future.
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@sdaedalus
Heh.
@biktopia, @Gorbachev
Re that post and the issue of bedding married women, in a nutshell I’d say it’s morally wrong if it takes lots of effort and you sense that it’s true she hasn’t done it before, nor is now on the prowl. That is to the extent that you’re very skillfully seducing her into doing something that she would otherwise do with anyone, it strikes me as morally wrong.
It doesn’t strike me as morally wrong in this day and age of rampant female cheating if you merely have to game her into deciding you’re the right or a good enough one. Rather than some other candidate she’s looking for even if unconsciously, whether or not she dissembles on how she hasn’t done this before and wouldn’t with anyone but you. Girls lie about that a lot, both parts of it. Yeah you have to have antenna for these things in well covered cases. Well just withdrawing and having her chase is a pretty darn good clue.
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@Gorbachev
I wouldn’t be wasting time reading & commenting on this blog if I didn’t think a lot of what it said was correct. All I can say is that the mechanism of attraction described corresponds reasonably accurately with my own experience of attraction. Not all women act unthinkingly with their hindbrains though, we do have some level of control, at least if we admit that what actually attracts us may not necessarily be what we want to find attractive. But in a society where self-control of any form is rapidly becoming underrated, and people are so narcissistic & self-entitled that they will believe only what they want to believe about themselves, I can understand how this could be forgotten.
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Gorbachev–
No, you’re wrong there. sdaedalus does, anoukange increasingly does, Bhetti has forever (she’s scarcer these days, particularly right now while she’s cramming for her London med school finals), and a number of others to greater and lesser degrees from time to time. The ones who come in full of feminist hostility you’re right about. Though most of them don’t last her long.
It’s just that these more friendly to at least some of the game message her females are generally relative or very good girls who put far more emphasis on finding LTR’s only (after perhaps a misstep or two) in the relationship before at least full sex sort of way. These are a lot less the PUA targets. It also causes them due to vicarious and their own experiences to look for men who themselves want to commit or at least show real movement in that direction before sex.
This tends to make them leery of if not completely rejecting players who haven’t changed for themselves, and hence to be attracted to a more mate-dad mix (which Roissy conflates with being more beta in most of what he writes, with the partial exception in a recent post of herbs, who he implies can be somewhat alpha in their success with solidly hot women – at least for LTRs). While at the same time these girls all acknowledge the great success that alpha qualities in men do have in getting them lots of different hot girls for what turn out at least to be usually flings or even shorter duration sex trysts.
One has to recognize that while there’s often a strong element of a hotish girl settling to get an alphaish man to marry her or even commit to a true LTR, as opposed to sex her in flings or shorter things, there’s also a different positive factor that even women with consderable choice in an LTR partner weigh in the mix. They want a strong and loyal mate-dad qualities as well, with more stability than flings that don’t have to lead anywhere necessarily.
In that sense this isn’t really compromising DOWN the scale inherently or necessarily as wanting a different mix for LTRs and marriage. Yes it’s likely to involve some tradeoff of his pure alpha qualities, but it’s a difference she affirmatively wants as opposed to only having to settle for in marriage. Even most of the hottest women tend to want this in an LTR or especially marriage partner.
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Gorbechev–
Aoefe, LilGir, Sofia (Girl Game bloggers along with Bhetti who I already mentioned – not Hope though who also sometimes posts there) were all like this on the good side while they were still here.
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Although it was the comment equivalent of a three-volume Russian novel, I have to say that most if not all of the points made by Gorby in his 2.17 p.m. post are correct.
Wholeheartedly agree. Gorbachev, I love your posts.
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@Doug1
It’s just that these more friendly to at least some of the game message her females are generally relative or very good girls who put far more emphasis on finding LTR’s only (after perhaps a misstep or two) in the relationship before at least full sex sort of way. These are a lot less the PUA targets. It also causes them due to vicarious and their own experiences to look for men who themselves want to commit or at least show real movement in that direction before sex. This tends to make them leery of if not completely rejecting players who haven’t changed for themselves, and hence to be attracted to a more mate-dad mix….While at the same time these girls all acknowledge the great success that alpha qualities in men do have in getting them lots of different hot girls for what turn out at least to be usually flings or even shorter duration sex trysts.
This is basically correct. Btw you all have no idea of the personal sacrifice involved in having to turn down all those lovely irredeemable alphas. It is terrible, but the alternative (at best, a broken heart, at worst, alpha addiction a slippery slope to skankitude) is worse. Better to observe and admire from a distance. Also, not drinking is a crucial weapon in alpha resistance.
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Gorbachev,
thank you for your strong reply,
I don’t know where to start to explain, i just read your post and Given my English, I need some time to gather my thoughts, Given that I never say things like these, makes me search for my words, to not be misunderstood, as I can see that at some places, I couldn’t express myself..
so i have to fall into bed as it was a long day for me (Doug, what a coincidence, im studying for medical finals to, good luck to me and Bhetty!)
paka everyone.
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SD said–
“I wouldn’t be wasting time reading & commenting on this blog if I didn’t think a lot of what it said was correct. ”
-Indeed. The fact that we come and read and try to discuss in between dogging nasty bullets and personal attacks must at the very least show we are seeking the truth. The problem is, not all that is here is shown to be free of bitterness and it becomes increasingly disheartening. Bu we continue on. We witness what you all post about in real life as well. Women who read this blog and continue to stick around are not the enemies of men. Think about it…why would we do this to ourselves if not for the attempt to understand where guys are coming from?
Doug is right (although somewhat generalized in his description of what we may seek individually)…and he continues to understand us. WE ARE NOT FEMINISTS. Can that be noted in the card catalog please? I am doing everything I can to avoid feminist thinking and since the globe is saturated in it, it remains a steady challenge. Personally, I have a bitch shield not for men, but for feminism. For the record: women are the weaker sex….and I find it beautiful. We have many gifts though. Many have just gotten mixed up as to what they are and have pushed to become more like men. It is all so ass-backwards.
p.s. Good luck to you biktopia!
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Gorbachev-
“I love talking to women. I love interacting with them. I love traveling with them. They make absolutely amazing companions. They make outstanding lovers, helpmates, and are great human beings. I just appreciate them…”
–I feel the same way about men. Nicely put, along with some of your other points.
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Gorb-this seems to be a “feelings based” moral decision on the part of the male.
“It is not wrong, or dirty, or a sign of moral weakness, to want to have sex. If you deny your husband sex, you have no reason to complain, if you’re truly honest, if he gets it elsewhere. And he may do that, anyway. It’s male nature.”
If a man actually loves his wife, the most logical thing he could do would be to find out why she has pulled away and figure out what to do about it. Cheating is a feelings response, rather than an logical response and it’s no less cruel when a man does it than when a woman does it.
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sdaedalus—it’s like you read my mind…it’s hard turning down a guy who has charming game or is at least trying…especially if they have other good qualities. I can’t deal with the artifice though and won’t take a chance of being someone’s pump and dump.
I’ve learned a lot about men here…what makes them tick and what hurts them. I promise to use my newfound knowledge for good. I really love men and I DO understand why you guys resort to Game…I only have a problem when it hurts people.
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sdaedalus—it’s like you read my mind…it’s hard turning down a guy who has charming game or is at least trying…especially if they have other good qualities
If she had one last night left to her before dying/world about to come to an end, and was otherwise unattached, SDaedalus would definitely spend that night with an alpha.
Unfortunately in real life one has to think about the next day, and the day after, and the day after that, alphas not so good in that regard.
Of course, with SDaedalus’s luck, she would be unable to locate an alpha male on her very last night alive, and would have to spend it alone.
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@White Woman
Gorb-this seems to be a “feelings based” moral decision on the part of the male.
“It is not wrong, or dirty, or a sign of moral weakness, to want to have sex. If you deny your husband sex, you have no reason to complain, if you’re truly honest, if he gets it elsewhere. And he may do that, anyway. It’s male nature.”
If a man actually loves his wife, the most logical thing he could do would be to find out why she has pulled away and figure out what to do about it. Cheating is a feelings response, rather than an logical response and it’s no less cruel when a man does it than when a woman does it.
I’m not saying cheating is the right solution; I’m just saying it’s understandable, if a guy does it. It should be understood that his biology has programmed him to be weak in this manner. He can choose to indulge it or not; but this is his weak point. It’s not a feelings-based response.
But I agree, it’s cruel as well when a man does it. If you’re in a committed relationship, it behooves everyone to be up front about what’s going on.
Before the fact, too.
But still – many men will slip. As will women, for that matter.
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“Btw you all have no idea of the personal sacrifice involved in having to turn down all those lovely irredeemable alphas. It is terrible, but the alternative (at best, a broken heart, at worst, alpha addiction a slippery slope to skankitude) is worse.”
SD, that is a great point and very well-said. It is unfortunate that so many women have not reached the level of self-awareness needed to understand that. (No offense to you, but it is not that high a level of self-awareness from my point of view and a woman who has not reached it has either an inferior brain or a poor character).
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White Woman,
Talking about wives denying their husband sex, you said
If a man actually loves his wife, the most logical thing he could do would be to find out why she has pulled away and figure out what to do about it.
Sorry, but THIS IS EXACTLY THE FUCKING PROBLEM.
How the hell is he supposed to “find out why she has pulled away” when SHE WON’T FUCKING TELL HIM
and EVEN IF SHE WANTED TO TELL HIM SHE DOESN’T FUCKING KNOW?
Much much much better to simply say that if you are married, sex is part of the deal, and if you won’t have sex with your spouse, you shouldn’t be sticking around? What is a legit reason not to have sex with your spouse that is also not a reason to leave? The only ones I can think of are that he is getting sex elsewhere but you don’t want to hurt the kids by divorcing, or that it is physically difficult or dangerous.
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Biktopia seemed to be the lone female who has posted on this blog – or any blog I’ve seen – that might be grasping the truth, that on some level there’s something wrong with the standard script.
—
If by the standard script do you mean the hookup culture and glorification of skanktitude, and the idea of telling guys that they just have to be nice or be themselves. Than yes I agree, there is something wrong with the script.
Guys need to stop letting their desire for sex lead them into situations where they are unahppy, and occasionally abused by their lovers.
I don’t agree that solution is to be abusive back, but I do agree that I do often see girls in relationships with guys where they are manipulating and abusing them and it disgusts me.
rry, but THIS IS EXACTLY THE FUCKING PROBLEM.
How the hell is he supposed to “find out why she has pulled away” when SHE WON’T FUCKING TELL HIM
and EVEN IF SHE WANTED TO TELL HIM SHE DOESN’T FUCKING KNOW?
—
If she won’t tell him why than that is the reason to leave, not that she won’t have sex with him. I’m not saying that sex isn’t necessary, but inspiring sex is possible — as this very blog and community illustrates, inspiring a desire to communicate is, I would imagine, much harder. Especially since so many women have the fantasy of the man who knows what they’re thinking etc etc.
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Gorbachev — I like your posts, dude, but I’m seeing some serious halo effect in what you’re writing about this girl.
to wit:
How long before she started talking about “deep thinker” topics?
In my experience, almost every woman who talks with “intellectual depth”, within the first couple of hours, turns out to be an insufferable fount of fustian and disguised banality.
How does she apprehend the world? Does she look at things in genuinely original, unusual, and refreshing ways, or is she just spitting high-class shibboleths that would gain her acceptance into the modern equivalents of pretentious Parisian salons?
Epoxytocin Maxim #14(a): People who outwardly display “intellectualism” — especially with people they don’t know, and double-plus-especially with the opposite sex — are usually just try-hards who are hollow inside.
You’re too easily impressed. Wordsmithing is a woman’s game; almost every woman in the 115-125 IQ range likes verbal “sparring”. You want that shit, just go to the lounge at your local law school.
Yawn.
True, but, why would you stop gaming this girl?
Or any girl?
This is What I Don’t Get about all this — at least half the fun in any LTR comes from “gaming the girl”. Why the fuck would you stop?
People are stupid.
This background makes the aforementioned attributes even less impressive.
What can this girl do that, in general, other upper-crust girls can’t?
So far, you’ve basically just mentioned the fundamental repertoire of the upper class woman — a way with words, an “intellectual” (with the quotes) bent, a few languages**, and the standard music and dance stuff. I don’t see anything special, or even one inch out of the ordinary, in that list.
Maybe I’m just too country, but you haven’t said one word about this girl that makes her different from Other International Upper-Class Girl No. 3539-A.
What makes her special? What makes her DIFFERENT?
Try-hard. Yawn. I think I’d lose interest in about two seconds. Three if she’s as hot as you say.
Hopefully this reality check will take some of the sweat off of your palms the next time you see her.
You’re welcome.
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Epoxy:
WHY DO YOU HATE INTERNATIONAL UPPER CLASS GIRLS.
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Forgot the footnote:
**Multilingualism is also not impressive, at all, ever, unless the person’s native language is English. In everybody else it’s to be taken for granted — I’d be shocked if I met a non-peasant-class European, African, or Middle Easterner who spoke fewer than 3-4 languages.
Next thing you know, you’ll have this chick on a pedestal because she can metabolize glucose.
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@Epoxytocin No. 87
Gorbachev — I like your posts, dude, but I’m seeing some serious halo effect in what you’re writing about this girl.
Aaalright, I’m pedestalizing because she’s just so freaking hot. I’m weak.
For hotness, I searched for someone who roughly matched the same body type and about the same level of hotness, and is vaguely similar in appearance. Tell me you wouldn’t sweat a little with a girl this hot: Katrina Halili.
In a glamour photo shoot, coffee girl would be very similar to
her. Look her up. If Katrina Halili is a 9, Coffee Girl is an 8.7. I’m not exaggerating at all. I have no idea why she’s not working as a model. Not appropriate for a good Persian girl? Beneath her? She’s relatively modest about how she carries herself, but dresses sharp (simple, but precisely chosen; elegant in the fashion and math sense).
It means that my game has to be 130% with no errors to have a chance. I’m starting to second-guess myself and plan ahead.
I need a harder, more serious gambit, something to bite and chomp down on. Something brash. I’m operating at the end of my shoelace.
I have Salsa on Thursday night with her and two of her friends (female). I’m the only male coming, but I’ve called in a chip and am bringing devoted wingwoman. She’s not nearly as hot as Coffee Girl, but it should do. How I handle or use her friends will make a huge difference. I have to get over her European reserve; the carefully composed distance she maintains. I recall the French didn’t take well to barnstorming. There were enough IOIs to give me hints. But she’s got a lot of girl game, so I’m not sure how strongly I got to her.
Go in close and get comfortable, or go for alternate and then come back and shock, with a quick dive in; casual let’s-get-out-of-here (maybe, … to talk, that might work) once separated and the moment is right. Don’t know. Attempting a makeout in public with this one will definitely backfire badly.
I should pray for some hot Bachata.
Your points help with the sweaty hands. It’s amazing I can still pedestalize after all this time. Pathetic.
I’ve only been with a few European upper-crusts; mostly in France. Only two for any length of time. I found their company better than most, but there was more than a hint of pomposity. There’s none in Coffee Girl (yet). (The men of the same class were intolerable. I might have this going for me, if the case is the same).
In my experience, almost every woman who talks with “intellectual depth”, within the first couple of hours, turns out to be an insufferable fount of fustian and disguised banality.
How does she apprehend the world? Does she look at things in genuinely original, unusual, and refreshing ways, or is she just spitting high-class shibboleths that would gain her acceptance into the modern equivalents of pretentious Parisian salons?
I see your point. Her education might be what’s giving the shine to the penny, in this case, as opposed to native cleverness. It could all be pretension. I’ll have to keep qualifying her this way. Might go a good distance; I can probably run a few circles around her.
I’m going to have to spend the entire time qualifying her relentlessly, and ramp up the negs, but shift it subtly to intellectual weaknesses. She has Daddy Worship syndrome, a physicist. I can use that. This is my field, I can usually swim circles around women when it gets here. I need to bring this over to where my strengths are and keep it there.
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Hey,
Anouk, thanks!
Gorbachev.
That was a hefty chunk!
Please be patient with my spelling errors and sentence structure.
About morality and for why i am prefer thinking black and white, I will try to explain: My moral values are sedimented mainly becasue of my very religious grandma. To live in a bad suburb, her words helped me very much enable me to be curious and explorative, but also stay out of trouble, or if i did something wrong, i could feel a guilt for my actions that i regretted.
but i want to give you an idea, that my morality, is not becasue of a religion, its not because of society norms, its how i was raised and how life influenced me, I cannot go more deeply here, as i would need to be giving very personal examples on turns my life have had, and how they influenced me. I continue with an example from my childhood.
In my suburb in Stockholm, one day when i was a kid, the neighbours beneath us, a single mom and her 13 year old daughter from Kenya, got into trouble. The mom had hit the daughter, not severe, but the daughter called social security, and so they came, and took the daughter away.
It was a feminist booty call at its worst, but the kid didn’t want to press charges against her mom. But what the kid liked was, that the social security worker that came to her school had told that one should imidiately report abuse, and that they will help children becasue children have rights to not being hit.
The girl run away from the foster home, and came knocking on our door, crying, that she had no where to go, the police would find her if she went home, so she stayed with us, and the mom came over to us to meet her daughter, i don’t remember if she was with us for a day or days, but what i remember was: How come the social security people, don’t understand what a 5 year old can.
About cheating: (feminist, if any here, close your eyes) if someone, is able to break up a marriage and take 50% of the belongings without blinking, because the husband cheated once, then, that’s a crime worse then the cheating itself. Cheating is not good, its not morally advisable but you judge the verdict please.
For me, I cannot cheat, i cannot be with a married man either its my moral standpoint, and i have been tried.
My friends dad had a mistress for 20 years, we found out when we where teens, my friend didn’t know if she would tell her mom or not, and she turned kind of explosive towards her dad, in the end she never told her mom, and told me that, she suspects her mom knows about it. On the outside and inside, ive been with this family a lot, i lived there, and they are family i look up to and that have been helping me a lot, this family situation is really hard for Americans to understand, for me, not so much, maybe im wrong in this, but some things just work, even though laws and morals say otherwise.
That is what hypocriticism is all about, hiding behind moral norms, without understanding what morality means. Im very black and white in my thoughts, that i don’t want to do for what is for me morally unacceptable, and that is boiled down to my own perception of morality, and here you go guys, im very pro guy friendly, what I cannot grasp is the hatred, which is over and over again, represented on this blog. Correction, I start to understand your hate, but I can’t accept it.
About female cheating, i know 2 girls, part of the group big foreign HR company located here, One of the girl slept with 2 guys at once, and her friend, slept with one of her guys, im not sure what the whole moral conclusion is behind this, not to mention the guy, but he was Italian and had, 7 other girls apart from that, haha it is complicated in that group, foreigners.
I have to say, the most sluttiest girls i ever met here where Americans or Britttish.
I understand when your frustration when women rationalize their cheating as your fault, there is a very silly tw-show here, like a Hungarian Oprah, what i think is disturbing is that the commentator, always take the women side, she is like, ahhw sweetie, he didnt pay attention to you, of course you cheated, And if the guy was cheating, she goes down with thunder, i cant watch it and The tv company should pay a fine to show this at 5 in the afternoon.
This for know, hope it was understandable that im not a feminist, and that i am striving to keep an open eye on life. (i cannot judge weather if i truly have or not)
I cannot write more in depth, because i don’t want to give away to much here, i usually just like to stay a bit in the background and tell one or 2 things i find wrong or important, and learn, or get fascinated about a good thread with with good comments, Your reply has someowhat changed the standard for what i want to tell, but i cant here, Gorb look how many others appreciate your sane voice, you are brilliant, you took the conversation to a whole new level, and you should definitely get your own blog, uncut.
Paka
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I must agree with this. Sure, if she’s a super-hottie with options, the moment you stop gaming her, she’ll be gone. Yeah, you can talk all you want about how this shows that girls are alpha-shallow and only like drama and power and game and whatnot, but imagine the reverse: say you’re a girl with an alpha. The moment you, the girl, gets fat, he’s outta there. Yeah, he’s shallow, but he has options so that’s not really a problem for him.
So yeah, she’s “shallow” but it’s not an issue for her, is it? It’s only an issue for you.
Everybody’s as shallow as they can afford to be, yay! So the price you pay for being with an uber hot girl is keeping up on your game, just like the price a girl pays for being with an alpha is keeping up on her girl game.
Obviously the best solution is two people who are at each other’s level (of hotness — alphaness), and, truth be told, that’s usually how things end up.
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Epoxytocin Maxim #14(a): People who outwardly display “intellectualism” — especially with people they don’t know, and double-plus-especially with the opposite sex — are usually just try-hards who are hollow inside.
Seconded. DC is rife with these girls. And as Roissy suggests, these girls are more susceptible to Game.
You’ve got 2 options- either play TO her intellectualism and hope you’ll impress her or totally subvert it. Which sounds more alpha? Find a way to get her out of her comfort zone.
Gorb, you’ve got worlds of experience over me, but I agree with Epo that you’re propping this girl up dangerously high relative to yourself.
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How the hell is he supposed to “find out why she has pulled away” when SHE WON’T FUCKING TELL HIM
and EVEN IF SHE WANTED TO TELL HIM SHE DOESN’T FUCKING KNOW?
This is true. I’ve been debating elements of Game and female nature with a female psychotherapist and she essentially said the same thing: that men need to ask women WHAT they want and HOW they want it.
I’ve tried conveying that a) the whole premise is women don’t know the answer to this and b) that even if they did, they don’t want to have to TELL men the answer.
Anyone have any ideas on how to go about explaining points “a” and “b” in a way that a woman will possibly understand and accept? Obviously it proposes an uncomfortable reality for women, and many will not want to admit it. Maybe the key is presenting it in a way that doesn’t make the whole sex sound retarded, as many are wont to do.
Guys here might say, “who gives a shit if she understands?” Yea, if you want to maintain the status quo for your own benefit, that’s understandable.
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@White Woman
Gorb-this seems to be a “feelings based” moral decision on the part of the male.
Nothing sexier than a logical woman. What man doesn’t want a wife who can come to the logical conclusion:
Ipso facto, go f*** yourself.
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Gorbo,
She has Daddy Worship syndrome, a physicist. I can use that. This is my field, I can usually swim circles around women when it gets here. I need to bring this over to where my strengths are and keep it there.
Why didn’t you bring this up before? This is a super-win for you — being intellectually superior to a girl is only a guaranteed tingler in a field she cares about, which is usually her own field where it’s not so easy to beat her out — but you’ve got props in a field she cares about but is not herself expert in, there’s your opening.
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@polymath
Gorbo,
She has Daddy Worship syndrome, a physicist. I can use that. This is my field, I can usually swim circles around women when it gets here. I need to bring this over to where my strengths are and keep it there.
Why didn’t you bring this up before? This is a super-win for you — being intellectually superior to a girl is only a guaranteed tingler in a field she cares about, which is usually her own field where it’s not so easy to beat her out — but you’ve got props in a field she cares about but is not herself expert in, there’s your opening.
I Know. It’s what I’m betting on. It’s my only card. Daddy complex.
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@Gorby
Epoxy doesn’t like Asians. Ironically. Also, she’s too soft-looking.
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@biktopia
Gorbachev.
That was a hefty chunk!
Please be patient with my spelling errors and sentence structure.
I never judge a girl based on spelling if her first (or second or third) language isn’t English.
About morality and for why i am prefer thinking black and white, I will try to explain: My moral values are sedimented mainly becasue of my very religious grandma. To live in a bad suburb, her words helped me very much enable me to be curious and explorative, but also stay out of trouble, or if i did something wrong, i could feel a guilt for my actions that i regretted.
but i want to give you an idea, that my morality, is not becasue of a religion, its not because of society norms, its how i was raised and how life influenced me, I cannot go more deeply here, as i would need to be giving very personal examples on turns my life have had, and how they influenced me.
Well, then I still say: You should question the values and examine why they work for you. Think clearly. You can still keep them: but base them on more than “I believe them because I believe them”.
About cheating: (feminist, if any here, close your eyes) if someone, is able to break up a marriage and take 50% of the belongings without blinking, because the husband cheated once, then, that’s a crime worse then the cheating itself. Cheating is not good, its not morally advisable but you judge the verdict please.
You’re right, of course. Actually, though, it’s even worse: They can take much more than 50%, they can take money for the rest of your life; and they don’t even need a reason to get a divorce. Nothing at all. The man can be devoted to her.
It’s why marriage is a dead zone for men.
and told me that, she suspects her mom knows about it.
My friend told her mother about her father cheating. Her mother was livid with anger: The mother suspected, but didn’t care and wanted to save the marriage. The mother was angry at the daughter. Once it was out, the marriage went through a lot of trouble.
this family situation is really hard for Americans to understand, for me, not so much, maybe im wrong in this, but some things just work, even though laws and morals say otherwise.
It’s why i say: morals can’t be absolute. You need to be able to parse them and understand why they’re there. If you apply them universally without reflection, you actually end up with tragedy.
Too few people think. This is especially true of the religious and conservatives. The liberal left has different – and more serious – problems.
im very pro guy friendly, what I cannot grasp is the hatred, which is over and over again, represented on this blog. Correction, I start to understand your hate, but I can’t accept it.
It’s a perspective thing. It’s hard. The hate (from me) is not for women: it’s for behaviours that are too common.
I have to say, the most sluttiest girls i ever met here where Americans or Britttish.
Yup.
Hungarian Oprah, what i think is disturbing is that the commentator, always take the women side, she is like, ahhw sweetie, he didnt pay attention to you, of course you cheated, And if the guy was cheating, she goes down with thunder, i cant watch it
This is why men feel isolated, ragged on, and treated like this. Modern culture emasculates us and ten blames us for the result. We’re to blame for everything.
But you an find pockets of reason. Sometimes.
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@LILGRL
@Gorby
Tell me you wouldn’t sweat a little with a girl this hot: Katrina Halili.
Epoxy doesn’t like Asians. Ironically. Also, she’s too soft-looking.
Okaay. Well, Coffee Girl is Persian, so not exactly like this; I have an appreciation for Asians (as well as Europeans, … hot is hot regardless). I assumed an equivalent would measure over.
Soft can be good, by the way. Depends on how much.
I just don’t get the not liking Asians thing.
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@Gorby
I looked at a couple of photos of her, and she looks soft in the “I have never worked out in my life” kind of way, which is…eh. I mean, I’m not a big fan of it (also, I am a girl), and as far as I know most guys aren’t either. Basically, she looks like she will hit the wall at 120 mph when her time comes.
I can get it, if you’re into T&A. Most Asians are slender in all areas. I believe he likes black girls and porn stars. I know he thinks Coco Austin is hot.
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@LILGRL
I looked at a couple of photos of her, and she looks soft in the “I have never worked out in my life” kind of way, which is…eh. I mean, I’m not a big fan of it (also, I am a girl), and as far as I know most guys aren’t either. Basically, she looks like she will hit the wall at 120 mph when her time comes.
Okay, … but Coffee Girl is more toned. I was going for the overall look.
I just don’t get the not liking Asians thing.
I can get it, if you’re into T&A. Most Asians are slender in all areas. I believe he likes black girls and porn stars. I know he thinks Coco Austin is hot.
Lots of Asian girls have great T&A. Especially A. Also T: it’s proportional. I know many hot C-D cup Asian women.
But not the black booty thing, for sure. Asia is a bad place for that.
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She doesn’t actually call herself Persian, does she?
It’s Iranian: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYGVBHD80W0. (Check out 4:55. Or the whole thing, really.)
I bring you the Iranian collection:
Swedish-Iranian Nadia Bjorlin
Nazanin Afshin-Jam
Nazanin Afshin-Jam 2
Iranian-Spanish Sarah Shahi
2
3
Bahar Soomekh
Bahar Soomekh 2
Bahar Soomekh
And a video:
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Dude, I am totally a Asian girl. I don’t presume to speak for the EPOX (hahahahaha yeah right), but I think he thinks proportional is overrated. Check out Coco. She is definitely not proportional.
@BHE
I have a friend who calls himself Persian. It’s weird.
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(That’s right, A ASIAN)
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Epoxy doesn’t like Asians. Ironically. Also, she’s too soft-looking.
But he is marrying one who is only a 6.
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@Bhetti
She doesn’t actually call herself Persian, does she?
It’s Iranian: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYGVBHD80W0. (Check out 4:55. Or the whole thing, really.)
She does. She’s not Muslim; Zoroastrian. Calls herself Persian.
This one:
Iranian-Spanish Sarah Shahi
2
3
Sarah Shahi is a 10 (or 9.5) to me. By comparison, Coffee Girl is still easily 8.5-8.7. Darker skin, shorter (5’3″ estimate).
This picture is better for my example. Thank you. Race and look is correct.
And you can see why I have baited breath.
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Actually, Lilgirl needs to see this comment from Plank :
The lesson learned here is that any woman who goes around demanding that she is 4 points higher than she really is, will needlessly invite a lot of heat.
‘Fake it till you make it’ doesn’t work when a woman does it regarding her looks (as Roissy correctly points out often).
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Gorbachev: Also, screen for the golddigging.
Amount of qualifications a girl has in any traditional family is directly proportional to how much at least one of her parental units wants her to dig, dig for gold.
She may be not that traditional, but worth throwing it out there while we’re pushing “persians” off pedestals.
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Next time he says it, would you say ‘Persian? Like a cat, miaow!’
Make it as emasculating as possible, with subtexts of ‘how cuuute!’ all over it. He may or may not get the reference to Djalili but, well.
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I want to romance this girl. Not marry her. If she qualifies me for money, I’m boned. She’s slumming it at a coffee shop; I think I should be ok on that score. I’m not poor.
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@LILGRL
Lots of Asian girls have great T&A. Especially A. Also T: it’s proportional. I know many hot C-D cup Asian women.
Dude, I am totally a Asian girl. I don’t presume to speak for the EPOX (hahahahaha yeah right), but I think he thinks proportional is overrated. Check out Coco. She is definitely not proportional.
I like proportion. Ratio. Asian girls are hot. I’ve never seen better body form on average than I have on Asian girls. Tastes are different, but to deny the beauty of Asian girls (feminine, body hotness, etc.), is tantamount to perverse.
There are a lot more consistently 6-7 Asian girls than Western girls. The ratio of 8,9,10 is about the same.
Not to say that Caucasian women aren’t extremely hot. But who doesn’t like Asian girls? Bizarre.
One thing: I find fewer black women attractive. Something masculine about their features.
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@ SOX
“I’ve tried conveying that a) the whole premise is women don’t know the answer to this and b) that even if they did, they don’t want to have to TELL men the answer.
Anyone have any ideas on how to go about explaining points “a” and “b” in a way that a woman will possibly understand and accept? Obviously it proposes an uncomfortable reality for women, and many will not want to admit it. Maybe the key is presenting it in a way that doesn’t make the whole sex sound retarded, as many are wont to do.”
This is something I used to struggle with.
The response to explaining points a and b is that when it comes to their inner nature and desires, there is an unspoken language.
It’s intuitive, it’s hardwired into women. They may not be able to explicitly explain why they do what they do….but their reactions are often visceral.
If a woman is attracted to a man there is nothing she can do about it.
If she gets angry, or acts out following “asshole game”…she may not be able to explain the attraction but intuitively it would have to do with 1) asshole game= some association with the Leader of Men aspect of attraction.
I see with women who have come on strong and disappeared…when I’ve sought an explanation, I’ve usually received some convuluted rationalization about in one case “something so alluring woudl disappear so quickly…” Why? Who cares. The why doesn’t matter, from a game perspective what it means is time to walk away, be aloof, be unavailable.
I think from a game perspective “why” a woman matters less that what the eventual outcome of that behaviour is.
Will this lead to some sexual interaction later? How?
It’s interesting when reading through some of the Roissy Mailbag stories, many of them involve a guy who “blows” it with a woman somehow. He overgames, she gets angry, pulls back. He tries to “fix” it with some type of text or email or call….and it drives her further away.
Roissy’s advice is consistent….when she pulls away…man pulls away….if there is a need to communicate, it’s to “reframe”.
I love the advice he gives to the guy who’s chick keeps flaking on him. (Flakes, Snakes…)
Stop making plans. Asking her “why” she keeps changing her mind is not going to lead to any rational answers.
Then he suggests going quiet. If after a period of time she reaches out, he says to send a text makings for drinks. If she balks….don’t reply.
I don’t need to know “why” women do what they do. I am now beginning to understand.
What I’m more interested in now is “What do I do about it?”
How do I handle it more effectively?
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AJT,
Your negging is transparent. Agree, about the 8, not about the 5.
Gorby,
Ooh, Zoroastrian. I had a GF who was Indian Zoroastrian rather than Persian Zoroastrian, just before I met my wife. Amazing girl, solid 8 (solid 9 if she had gotten her nose fixed), highly educated, extremely girly personality, virgin at 24 but very sexual. Family’s conservative attitude (even though Dad was an airline pilot) combine with strong willpower and determination made her able to save herself (with several very close calls) for her eventual husband (nice guy, not much game but 6’4″ and Irish-handsome) married at 25, happily domesticated after that, prone to intense crushes but as far as I know she didn’t act on them [I know for sure she didn’t on her 2 main crushes]. Very vulnerable to expert game (she was a strong chessplayer and worshipped Grandmasters).
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Gorby,
Ooh, Zoroastrian. I had a GF who was Indian Zoroastrian rather than Persian Zoroastrian, just before I met my wife. Amazing girl, solid 8 (solid 9 if she had gotten her nose fixed), highly educated, extremely girly personality, virgin at 24 but very sexual. Family’s conservative attitude (even though Dad was an airline pilot) combine with strong willpower and determination made her able to save herself (with several very close calls) for her eventual husband (nice guy, not much game but 6’4″ and Irish-handsome) married at 25, happily domesticated after that, prone to intense crushes but as far as I know she didn’t act on them [I know for sure she didn’t on her 2 main crushes]. Very vulnerable to expert game (she was a strong chessplayer and worshipped Grandmasters).
I’m hoping this one is vulnerable to expert game.
You learn by doing.
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Haha. Actually, he’s Zoroastrian, yeah.
Gorby
Actually, quite a few guys. But the guys who have raging hard-ons for the entire race far outstrip them, so I guess that makes up for it hahahaha.
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@LILGRL
But who doesn’t like Asian girls?
Actually, quite a few guys. But the guys who have raging hard-ons for the entire race far outstrip them, so I guess that makes up for it hahahaha.
I don’t get the raging hard-on thing. But I don’t get the dislike thing, either.
Men please weigh in on this. I always wondered what was wrong with this picture.
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@Gorby
To a certain degree I can understand your surprise, in that I’m always at least a bit nonplussed when someone has tastes that are the opposite of my own. However, your claiming that You Just Don’t Understand — especially with this sort of vehemence and repetition — makes me start to think you’ve never met anyone outside your own social class / walk of life / narrow sphere of interests. Get over it, there’s a big wide world out there.
The reality is that there are two 0-10 scales, one of “beauty”/”prettiness” and one of “raw sexual attraction”. Most men’s opinions on the former scale are going to be pretty uniform — I don’t think many men would rate Melissa Theuriau below a 9, for instance, or Janet Reno above a 2, on the beauty scale — but men’s honest opinions on the latter scale, the I-wanna-fuck scale, are going to be totally different.
On the latter scale, the “raw sexual attraction” scale, full-blooded East Asian girls just don’t register for me, at all. Never have. I could probably live in Korea or China for a whole year and not get the urge to fuck anything the whole time.
If it helps you understand, in my world the perfect woman’s body would be assembled by grafting together the top half of Denise Milani and the bottom half of Maliah Michel. Proportion be damned.
Katrina Halili
I agree that she should be pretty high on the “beauty” scale, but I wouldn’t notice her walking past me on the street. The only way I’d look at her twice is if she were slutted up in a little short skirt, thigh-high boots or stockings, etc., and with trashy makeup on. Now we’re talkin.
The good thing is that she has a really plain face, which would be a decently good canvas for said trashy makeup.
The two scales are sufficiently different that, if a guy told me that all of the 10’s on his “beauty/prettiness” scale were also 10’s on his “I wanna fuck” scale, I would just assume he was lying. For instance, Marilyn Monroe was not very objectively beautiful at all (see here), but every male with red blood and a pulse would’ve wanted to hit that.
The problem is that most guys aren’t self-aware enough to separate the two scales.
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@ Polymath
I’m pretty sure “AJT” is “A. J. Travis”. You probably haven’t been around here long enough to remember this guy, but here’s the executive summary. He was known for gallivanting around here doing three things: (1) proclaiming a forthcoming “beta revolution” (no alphas in the treehouse!), of which he would be the messiah; (2) laying a personal claim to large swaths of Southern California (I shit you not); and (3) writing assorted book-length posts, among which were a whole novella about LILGRL’s looks and a nine-page guide to how girls should land a beta. Yes, nine pages. On how to land a beta.
Go read his constant frothing-at-the-mouth about LILGRL’s looks again, and, this time, ruminate on the fact that he’s forty-three years old — forty-three years old — and still spending his time doing such.
Oh, and, I was more than a bit taken aback to scroll up from the ALL FUCKING CAPS SCREAM FEST (with white woman) and find your name. That was a surprise. I’m not easily surprised.
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@ Polymath
Comment aimed at you, 5/26 2:37am, in auto-moderation. I don’t know why.
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@Epoxy
The reality is that there are two 0-10 scales, one of “beauty”/”prettiness” and one of “raw sexual attraction”. Most men’s opinions on the former scale are going to be pretty uniform — but men’s honest opinions on the latter scale, the I-wanna-fuck scale, are going to be totally different…The problem is that most guys aren’t self-aware enough to separate the two scales.”
Epoxy makes two excellent points here, first, the presence of an alternate scale (which is the one that really determines how men act) and the fact that a lot of men can’t or won’t admit this alternate scale.
Also, with most guys, sluttiness moves a girl up on the raw sexual attraction scale (there may be a converse category of guys who pretend they like sluts, but in fact don’t, but they are relatively rare as far as I can see). I’m not even sure that private sluttiness counts in this regard, it may have to be public sluttiness to get a man interested, the attraction may be that the woman appears slutty to other men.
Also, with a lot of men, raw sexual attraction does not necessarily mean respect or affection. In fact with some men it is the reverse, respect/affection proportionately decreases.
At least with women, even though they may not initially admit their attraction for alphas, they feel respect and affection for them when they have acted on that attraction. Therefore alphas definitely benefit by being alphas, once the attraction has developed, they have the power. This unfortunately is not the case for sluts.
What’s a girl to do? If she takes steps to raise her status on the slut scale (this is in fairness a lot easier than raising one’s status on the other scale) she may get more men into bed, but she’s not necessarily going to be able to keep them there, nor is she going to get much of an emotional connection in a lot of cases (I do appreciate that there are exceptions to this, but they are exceptions rather than the rule, even on this blog, with the exception of a few notable commenters like Epoxy and Xsplat, sluts are not given much respect, they are desired more than is admitted, but disliked)
Alternatively, if she stays low on the slut scale, she may have a better chance of an LTR, but if her man is really attracted to sluts, this is not much fun (particularly if he won’t admit it, and she keeps asking herself what is wrong with her).
I know some people say that the answer is to be public nice girl, private slut (and by private slut I mean more than simply liking sex, which should be taken as a given), but this doesn’t necessarily work either because often these men (particularly if in denial about their attraction to sluts) either
(a) don’t want their LTRs to be private sluts, sometimes indeed don’t even want them to enjoy sex
(b) lose respect for their LTRS when they are private sluts
(c) want public rather than private sluts.
It is really very difficult for those of us who just want a decent LTR and good sex, who accept that we may have to be more selective in our choice of men and adjust our behaviour and appearance and most importantly treat our man well in order to achieve this (I don’t think any sensible woman would really have a problem with any of Anouk’s recommendations outlined above), but just don’t know how to identify the right kind of man, or in what direction to move, in order to get there.
A start would be if guys would be more open about what they want, at least we could assess at the outset whether or not the relationship had a chance of succeeding. But as Expoxy points out, a lot of guys are not honest even with themselves in this regard, at best they may admit the occasional attraction to sluts (they will usually blame the slut for this) but what they will not point out is that sluttiness is really a sine qua non of attraction for them. Epoxy is to be commended for being so honest in this regard.
PS I think Tiger Woods etc. falls into this category. The initial tendency is to blame these guys’ wives for not being good enough in bed or interested in sex, but this may not necessarily be the case at all. I’m not a huge fan of Elin Woods, who looks like a tough cookie, but I don’t think Tiger’s conduct would have been any different even if she had been as sweet as Ariel from the Little Mermaid. A lot of the time these guys specifically don’t want their wives to be interested in sex, or to do what pleases them in bed, that is something reserved for the sluts they won’t admit they are attracted to. It is really very difficult.
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polymath’s anecdotes are 25 years old and should be noted as such. when he references some subset of intelligent, chaste, grounded young women that are out there waiting for the patient do-gooders with suitable charm, he is extrapolating a projection of his own view of his pre-undergraduate daughter, whose trial-by-fire has yet to come.
his advice is “fatherly”.
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Sorry, one point of clarification, I referred a couple of times above to the raw sexual attraction scale as the slut scale, this is not quite the same thing insofar as the sluttiness of the woman is not the only factor in raw sexual attraction (there are other things, for instance sexual and aesthetic preference in women commonly varies) nor is it always a factor.
However I think sluttiness or at least perceived sluttiness in the woman is a big unspoken pre-requisite of raw sexual attraction in a lot of men, they are actively turned on by the fact that a woman is experienced and/or puts out easily, just like women are turned on by experience and, yes, the other thing too, in men (I appreciate that there is a long-stop point to this at which too much experience becomes icky)
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Can-can,
I’m not pretending that the good girls I was talking about are as common as they used to be, but they haven’t completely disappeared. Also, I am not recommending being a “patient do-gooder” — game is absolutely important to get their attention.
Your real beef with me is whether such a girl is worth seeking compared to the more common type with a more sluttier modern attitude.
I am not giving “fatherly” advice to guys like Gorbachev. As for my own daughter, I have done a good enough job with her that I don’t worry about her. (She is currently dating a guy in the Navy, 2 years older, who she doesn’t get to see very often; I approve of him. She’s an adult now and I’m not going to get involved except to make sure she is able to recognize PUA techniques.)
That Zoroastrian girl was 6 years older than me when we dated (24-18); I had known her for a couple of years before that and she was getting visibly hotter all the time as her sexual frustration increased; I was pretty sure her next guy would get overwhelmed and offer to marry her, and it happened as I expected. He came very close to losing her by developing a drinking problem a few years later, but he beat it in time to save his marriage. There were two guys she definitely would have left him for in a microsecond, but neither one took the bait.
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Epoxy 87,
You’re sort of right about the two scales, but the “wanna fuck” scale depends on more than pure looks (it depends on attitude, makeup, clothing, tattoos, facial expression, etc.). If you equalized all behavioral cues and judged purely on appearance as determined by genetic endowment, the two scales wouldn’t be very different.
(The WF scale would be a little different only because of the relative rating of face and figure — if pure beauty averages them equally, WF might weight them more like 1:2).
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“However I think sluttiness or at least perceived sluttiness in the woman is a big unspoken pre-requisite of raw sexual attraction in a lot of men, they are actively turned on by the fact that a woman is experienced and/or puts out easily, just like women are turned on by experience and, yes, the other thing too, in men (I appreciate that there is a long-stop point to this at which too much experience becomes icky)”
Nope. Bullshit. Roissy has spoken of this before. It’s all about the path of least resistance that causes men to fuck sluts. A virgin 9 and a slut 9 are equally sexually attractive.
In fact the opposite is true, a man would much rather corrupt the good girl than get the pre-packaged slut. But good girls are by definition harder to get and in limited supply, if everyone got a piece they would no longer be the good girl, just a slut.
I like to hit it raw, and im much more comfortable doing that with the good girl than a slut. Much better sex. Sluts?? pass me two condoms, and i’m out of here as soon as i bust the nut, thats right i’m not taking that ho back to MY place.
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Zoroastrians, hmm.
Gorbachev, no problem, looking all those up was a fun diversion for me. Keep us updated.
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Best of luck, Gorbachev, and remember, she’s lucky to have you interested in her.
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I agree w/the realist.
Sluttier girls’ sex appeal is attached to their knowing their sexual power and embracing it. The way they dress and act. Not their actual willingness to put out.
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@Bhetti
Zoroastrians, hmm.
Gorbachev, no problem, looking all those up was a fun diversion for me. Keep us updated.
@sdaedalus
Best of luck, Gorbachev, and remember, she’s lucky to have you interested in her.
How odd. Goodwill for a guy chasing a hot girl. Never encountered that before. I guess I’ll update.
Wingwomanextraordinaire seems to be inordinately enthused about making sure I catch this fly, too. Of course, she’s a bad girl.
Well. Let’s see if my salsa is hot enough.
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@theRealist
@Sox
Thanks, this is useful. I believe you guys. I do think that there is a small but statistically significant category of men who get turned on by sluts but not by nice girls though.
Also, often attraction to sluts is inversely proportionate to experience in men. We’ve all heard of the jaded roue who is bored with sluts & looking for something new; but the converse is also true, a young inexperienced man may prefer a slut over a nice girl, and not just because she is less work to get into bed, but this may change as they themselves grow older & more experienced.
I agree that the key to slut appeal is giving the impression you are willing to put out, the difficulty is that if you give this impression it’s very hard to subsequently convince anyone that you are in fact not a slut, which tends to create a bit of a problem if you are looking for LTRs, you effectively get all the disadvantages of sluttism without the benefits.
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We really need to get David Alexander over to comment on slut appeal & the inexperienced male.
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Epoxy 87,
I did lose my cool a bit with White Woman, but I prefaced my all-caps shouting with “Sorry, but” so she wouldn’t take it personally — her post was such a perfect example of the blind spot most women have that I went nuclear.
I have found in my non-internet life also that an angry display is much more effective when one is usually the voice of calm reason. (Warning: advice for dealing with adults only. Kids require more careful treatment.)
See my recent reply to Sniper on the “sexual experience is overrated thread” for an example of super-calm reasonableness (effective because contrasting with the profane insults a previous commenter had directed at her, while making the point his rage had obscured).
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@sdaedalus
Also, with most guys, sluttiness moves a girl up on the raw sexual attraction scale (there may be a converse category of guys who pretend they like sluts, but in fact don’t, but they are relatively rare as far as I can see). I’m not even sure that private sluttiness counts in this regard, it may have to be public sluttiness to get a man interested, the attraction may be that the woman appears slutty to other men.
Also, with a lot of men, raw sexual attraction does not necessarily mean respect or affection. In fact with some men it is the reverse, respect/affection proportionately decreases.
I guess I just like slutty girls: I had a very unslutty wife, and albeit though I was a pussy of major proportions, I got SFA from her inexperience and lack of slut. If she were sluttier, it might have been even better in the bedroom for me, regardless of where she was on workday afternoons off.
But I’ve not noticed this with me, or a few friends: I respect women no less for being slutty. I associate that with being fun. I’d go for a slutty 9 over the same virginal 9 any day, without a moment’s hesitation.
I did the virginal thing when I was 23. Done with that. I actually like sex. Enthusiasm and confidence and comfort (and endurance) are fucking awesome. Why trade that in?
Maybe I just don’t have much recent experience tapping 20-year-olds.
For LTRs, …
I used to think a lot of guys acted out of fears of sexual inadequacy when they chased virgin pussy. After reading comments here, I think I might be mistaken in some cases. Some guys might just like the idea of virgins.
And slutty – do we mean 100 guys or 20 or 10 or 5 by age, oh, say, 29?
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@Sox
Sluttier girls’ sex appeal is attached to their knowing their sexual power and embracing it. The way they dress and act. Not their actual willingness to put out.
Absolutely. I love women who are powerfully sexual and know their own power.
I’m convinced that a lot of guys (though maybe not all) who want virgins want them because they’re fundamentally afraid of female sexuality and its power, which means they’re acting out of sexual weakness and not strength
A guy who’s comfortable with his own male sexual power doesn’t need to fear a woman’s sexual power over him.
I think a lot of woman-hating and disrespecting is the same. Not all of it; but a lot of it.
I don’t hate women. I just hate the lies that so easily envelop them and the profound self-assurances that easily pour out of addled ideologies. But actual women are fine.
I think a lot of guys (a few here, especially bitter betas) actually hate women. And that’s why they hate sluts.
It’s one thing to be unattracted to sluttiness. It’s another thing to hate sluts themselves.
The truth is: some guys hate themselves, for being weak pieces of shit.
@sdaedalus
I agree that the key to slut appeal is giving the impression you are willing to put out, the difficulty is that if you give this impression it’s very hard to subsequently convince anyone that you are in fact not a slut, which tends to create a bit of a problem if you are looking for LTRs, you effectively get all the disadvantages of sluttism without the benefits.
You can learn a lot about carrying off the “I’m super hot and sexy and maybe available” look, the quasi-slutty look, without looking like a whore, by checking out some Korean women. If you want to see the I’m A Whore look, go to Japan and spend some time in a club.
The Koreans pull it off because they have be reserved but still need to advertise.
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@Gorbachev
I’m convinced that a lot of guys (though maybe not all) who want virgins want them because they’re fundamentally afraid of female sexuality and its power, which means they’re acting out of sexual weakness and not strength
Definitely. I’ll admit I’ve been there. My “one that got away” was one of those girls. I’ve been searching for someone with that kind of appeal/power since then, with little luck.
Thing is, you can tell the difference between a powerfully sexual girl and a weak one who whores herself out for attention.
Just like you can tell the difference between an alpha demonstrating his magnanimity (coming from a place of power) vs. a beta who just supplicates, even though the actual physical manifestation is the same.
@SD
Body language, clothing, and the way you use your voice. Women can improve their raw sex appeal through those things just as men can.
A girl who maintains strong eye contact is ridiculously hot.
Unfortunately (or fortunately :P) many women just default to showing as much cleavage as they can.
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Gorbachev
I guess I just like slutty girls
Full credit to you for being honest. I wish guys were more open about these things. The difficulty is that a lot of guys preach one thing, and practice another, in terms of the women they are attracted to, sometimes they don’t even admit the truth even to themselves.
This makes it very difficult for anyone they are involved with, just like the we love betas thing messes with the heads of men who are dumped by women for alphas.
It’s actually not the dumping that wrecks with the heads of their partners most, it’s the fact that the dumping goes against everything this person has told them about what they want in a relationship, they begin to question their own sanity sometimes, I expect this is true for men dumped for alphas as well as nice girls dumped for sluts.
I did say inexperienced men are often attracted to sluts in preference to nice girls, this doesn’t mean that a lot of experienced men don’t also prefer sluts.
PS you have to post some links to the Korean babes you mention, I would love to see what you are talking about here.
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I guess the definition of slutty depends on the individual man, some guys would call any girl who didn’t wait until marriage or who slept with someone she didn’t subsequently marry slutty. I was using it to refer to someone the individual male involved would consider slutty as opposed to nice girl.
As I mentioned above, I’m not using slutty as pejorative in any way, although it’s not a lifestyle choice that would work for me because of my particular vunerabilities, I often find sluts much more fun to talk to and often much kinder to other women, than some nice girls. Some reformed sluts (not all!) can be terribly self-righteous though.
I agree matters are not helped by the fact that some apparent nice girls have a higher notch count than apparent sluts & vice versa.
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And I did emphasise earlier that sexual power does not necessarily correspond imo with being a slut, there are women with a lot of sexual experience whose sexual attraction rating is much lower than their beauty rating and there are women with little or no sexual experience who have high sexual attraction ratings relative to their beauty rating. I think a lot of it is linked to confidence, but the trick is how to walk the fine line between being sexually attractive without necessarily being perceived as slutty.
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@sdaedalus
Gorbachev
I guess I just like slutty girls
Full credit to you for being honest. I wish guys were more open about these things. The difficulty is that a lot of guys preach one thing, and practice another, in terms of the women they are attracted to, sometimes they don’t even admit the truth even to themselves.
I can even tell you why I like slutty girls. I’ve had both, and everything in between. I wasn’t a monk before marriage, but after divorce and recovery, I came into my own and kind-of went crazy. Then I calmed down and decided quality and emotional bonding was preferable to stabbing into the dark like some kind of half-mad prison escapee.
It’s actually not the dumping that wrecks with the heads of their partners most, it’s the fact that the dumping goes against everything this person has told them about what they want in a relationship, they begin to question their own sanity sometimes, I expect this is true for men dumped for alphas as well as nice girls dumped for sluts.
My advice for women who want to be with men and keep them loyal (well, for guys like me, anyway, if not all men): For your man, be as slutty as womanly possible. Frolick in sexuality with him. Sometimes deny it to make him chase you. After you argue, fuck his brains out. When the kids are born, have a plan to remain sexual with him.
Your relationship will survive and bond. The *only* factor that distinguishes a mating relationship from any friendship is sex. There is nothing else. Everything else can be acquired elsewhere.
Well, sex, too, but you’re not supposed to. Ahem.
I did say inexperienced men are often attracted to sluts in preference to nice girls, this doesn’t mean that a lot of experienced men don’t also prefer sluts.
Experienced guys who go after non-sluts as a rule might just have low respect for women generally (often well-earned). Find guys who love female sexuality.
Make that your filter point for men.
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@sdaedalus
I guess the definition of slutty depends on the individual man, some guys would call any girl who didn’t wait until marriage or who slept with someone she didn’t subsequently marry slutty. I was using it to refer to someone the individual male involved would consider slutty as opposed to nice girl.
So this is a variable stat depending on the guy. Okay.
As I mentioned above, I’m not using slutty as pejorative in any way, although it’s not a lifestyle choice that would work for me because of my particular vunerabilities, I often find sluts much more fun to talk to and often much kinder to other women, than some nice girls.
Can I say this out loud: As a guy who’s been around a lot of women (and not just in the bedroom), and who has spent considerable amounts of time in the company of women from all walks of life:
I find slutty women 1) Less self-righteous, 2) More generous, 3) More open and emotional, 4) MUCH more fun, and 5) on average, more creative and social. They tend to give money to panhandlers more often; tend to be less judgmental; tend to be less overbearing and more friendly, as opposed to sisterly (which is ultimately worthless), to other women.
Some reformed sluts (not all!) can be terribly self-righteous though.
And there’s the moral self-righteousness of the no-longer slut. Also contemptible. It’s find to be all moral, but the self-righteousness is disgusting.
I hate fundies (politics, ideology, religion, whatever) for forcing on everyone else both their native stupidity and their self-righteousness.
I agree matters are not helped by the fact that some apparent nice girls have a higher notch count than apparent sluts & vice versa.
Situation: Meet nice girl. All sweetness and light. Seems like 1-3 guys in her past. Don’t game her. End up in bed after a few months. Result: Fucks like some kind of wild porn star; distant and unemotional, but technically could be used as a textbook for a sex manual in twelve editions. Says she’s had 2 BFs, no ONSs.
Um, yeah. She taught me a few things, and she’s had 2 BFs. Must have been some BFs. I’d like to chat with those guys.
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Thank you, Gorbachev. I really do appreciate the advice, it is very useful. Where I come from in real-life, very few guys would be comfortable talking about these things with a woman, and the words of those who were would always be filtered through an agenda, the truth would be blurred if not totally obscured. So it is really good to get insight from you. Thanks again for taking the trouble to reply.
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Sdaedalus and Gorbachev, your comments seem to be working synergistically with each other, love reading them. Great posts!
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Thanks very much, Biktopia.
Btw, your new gravatar looks hot, but then so did the old one, lucky girl.
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@sdaedalus
Thank you, Gorbachev. I really do appreciate the advice, it is very useful. Where I come from in real-life, very few guys would be comfortable talking about these things with a woman, and the words of those who were would always be filtered through an agenda, the truth would be blurred if not totally obscured.
It’s part of girl game. Know your man. We can’t ask women what they want: we have to determine how they work by looking at different types of women and then seeing how they respond.
Find out what kind of guy your man is and then see what makes him tick. Ignore what he says.
Chances are, though, if you’re enthusiastic, emotional, and creative and fun and very relaxed in bed, no pressure and it’s not a performance, with a good heaping dose of feminine slut, you’re going to win him over. Happens to me. It’s irresistible. Resistance is futile.
Other guys, … I do suspect that guys who deeply dislike sluts in the bedroom like to have weak women so they can dominate them and treat them as furniture, like shock-and-awe warfare. Dolls for their personal use.
Fine for the guys, but total shit for the girls.
If you come out and be this way with your guy, and he resists, then he has a problem with his own masculinity (beta) or he mistrusts female power.
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@LILGRL
What’s with the avatar change? Making the point to the unconverted about Asian girls? Might be futile.
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among which were a whole novella about LILGRL’s looks
….or lack thereof.
LILGRL is a woman who is average, both in social class and in physical appearance.
Nothing wrong with being average – most people, by definition, are.
But I agree with the other commenters who point out that her delusional bragging about being at the very top of both social class and looks (she is a 6/6.5 who really, really, thinks she is a 9 or higher), is getting beyond old.
She is definitely lower than Anouk, looks-wise.
Epoxytocin 87 secretly wishes she would stop putting him in the embarassing situation of having to defend the mess she creates. He keeps failing this shit test that his woman perpetually inflicts on him.
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@sdaedalus
PS you have to post some links to the Korean babes you mention, I would love to see what you are talking about here.
Korean Women
Okay. Some hot Korean girls for Sdaedalus and a firm “go to Korea young man” to the guys out there.
@LILGRL
And you dudes who seem to have something against LILGRL for some reason, Lilgrl, you can measure yourself against these women and see how you’d fare in Korea.
My standards may not be the same as many Asian guys’ standards. Or white guys. You have to find Asian women at least as attractive as white girls for this to make any sense.
Note that you can’t just go by figure. More than half of urban Korean women have perfect .7 ratio bodies. No-one falls far from this mark. Most get plastic surgery for eyes, nose or breasts (in that order).
Perhaps you can see why white girls living there just don’t get laid by white or black guys. Like, ever.
Notice the figures. Most Korean women have superb figures. It’s no just genetic; they eat better (not less). And believe me, they’re not in the slightest bit athletic. They lead the most sedentary lives imaginable. More “delicate” women you’re not going to find.
BTW, I’ve noticed that especially in popular media, women have been slutting it up a lot more in the last 5 years.
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Now for real girls who are actually looking for BFs, from a dating website.
7-7.5
http://www.plentyoffish.com/member7198053.htm
7
http://www.plentyoffish.com/member11814825.htm
http://www.plentyoffish.com/member8347032.htm
6.5-7 (depending on taste)
http://www.plentyoffish.com/member15752554.htm
http://www.plentyoffish.com/member18111932.htm
6
http://www.plentyoffish.com/member4232929.htm
NIGHTCLUB – TYPE GIRL
6
http://www.plentyoffish.com/member8512619.htm
This girl is very typical. The whole nightclub culture is wide open. They tend to be very into casual sex; it’s all they really do. It’s a very workaholic, nihilistic culture. If you want to go out and drink or dance, and you try, you can’t help but get laid. Physical game ups it about 1-2 points, not much more, due to language barriers.
Any 6 guy with reasonable game can easily take a girl this attractive home any night of the week. It’s not remarkable.
But it gets old fast and you quickly move on.
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10
This is a 10 for any Korean guy, and most white guys there. I find other models hotter, personally, but Lee Hyori is the current standard. She’s on every possible ad in Korea.
http://www.zimbio.com/Hyo+Lee/articles79/Korea+Sexy+Idol+Lee+Hyori
Any Korean guy might *actually* cut off a testicle for her.
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Hottest pop star in Korea: Son Dam Bi
Her hit single Michoso (crazy) made chinese boys overseas have aneurisms.
KPop and the lame dancing they do takes some getting used to. But it’s the hottest craze in Asia.
http://www.ballhype.com/story/son_dambi_diva_with_the_sexy_dances/
Video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWtRTLDR28o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7OzabifGLT4
Every aspiring Korean teenager mimics her. Her chair dancing is a meme in Korea and the rest of Asia. The girls in this video would all be about 6 in Korea (but these are Vietnamese: see the power of Korean entertainment in Asia).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TKlnNAowWIc
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7.5
Kwon yuri
Looks somewhat like a girl I dated for half a year. Very typical Korean female figure (age, say, 21-30).
The first isn’t a particularly good picture of her, but I included it for style: typical Korean girls’ clothing. Long shirts, hiding the curves, until they bend over, walk, sit, or whatever. It has an entrancing effect; suitable for work, or school, but as the woman moves about, very sexual. It’s just slightly too tight, though you’d never guess. Makes you think they’re more girly or innocent. They’re not.
http://www.photos-p.friendster.com/photos/26/72/110512762/1_348718037l.jpg
A much better picture of her:
http://www.allkpop.com.lg1x1.simplecdn.net/wp-content/uploads/old/2009_stories/20090611_top10females_yuri1.jpg
This is reasonable for a Western guy of 6 or better with consistently good game. Why the hell do we come back here?
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Thanks very much Gorbachev for the photos, it is really good of you to go to so much trouble.
I can’t resist asking: Has Kwon Yuri had a boob job? She looks very well endowed for an Asian girl.
Some more commentary from you on Subtle Slut fashion
would also be appreciated by us girls, don’t hold back here, I would so love to hear what guys consider sufficiently slutty to turn them on but not too slutty for LTR potential.
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Epoxy
I’m going to use this as an opportunity to try to clear up something that often confuses people when we talk about guys largely agreeing on beauty ratings.
What tends to be pretty consistent across guys, though not entirely so, is the rank order they will assign a group of 10 girls, if they’re fairly chosen to represent the spectrum. The absolute number they will assign to someone they see at work, a social event, and so on will vary a lot more widely.
This is partly because guys often cheat by restricting the rang of looks they are mentally comparing to, often by only paying attention to girls average and above. Some guys also won’t assign 10s to any by an infinitesimal number of girls relative to the population.
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SD:
Subtle Slut look is no tattoos or piercings, light makeup, expensive clothes, but the tightest you can wear without tearing them, 1 more button undone than you otherwise would, bra strap may be visible, highest heels you can comfortably walk at a normal pace in, ankle bracelet, and either choker, neck ribbon, or pendant near cleavage.
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@sdaedalus
I can’t resist asking: Has Kwon Yuri had a boob job? She looks very well endowed for an Asian girl.
She’s good for a Korean woman; for sure some surgery involved. The GF that looked like her was natural; lots of Korean women are. It’s surprising. Must be something in the food this generation (milk?)
One woman I was seeing had very subtle and extremely impressive surgery; had I not known what to look for, I might not have known. Best surgery in the world.
Koreans are different from other Asians. I would suggest the food. Lots of meat; lots of dairy treats and snacks.
Some more commentary from you on Subtle Slut fashion
would also be appreciated by us girls, don’t hold back here, I would so love to hear what guys consider sufficiently slutty to turn them on but not too slutty for LTR potential.
From Koreans:
– Wear loose clothing, but make sure it’s fitted so that the waving around doesn’t make it baggy. It means you have to shop hard. In Korea, there are hundreds of thousands of places to get clothing. Some whole districts are open 24 hours, each with thousands of small shops.
– Skirts are feminine. Longer skirts look more conservative. Make them tight and form-hugging to sex it up.
– If you go to pants, choose pants that are darker, and show off your assets; but not like paint. Halfway between Western baggy and tarty.
– Sexy underclothing with a looser shirt.
– Carefully chosen accessories. Make them few; the right colour to contrast (always contrast); strategic places. if you’re well-endowed, you don’t need to show cleavage. Just wear the right necklace to draw the eye, the clothing can be tighter but just a bit loose to give the impression that you’re not trying to show off.
– Long hair
– Half-high heels. Not too showy.
The trick of the look: like you’re not trying to look sexy, but you pick items that show off whatever you have.
The thing is about Koreans, they have their cultural restraints to guide them. But the push of looking sexy; these rub up against each other in the marketplace every day, and the line goes back and forth.
As a rule, show off curves but cover up.
Cleavage and leg is for clubs.
NO SHORTS. Lots of skirts. My ex GF had about ten thousand skirts.
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@sdaedalus
Oh, and no tattoos. Koreans hate tattoos. Looks like total whore zone. No permanent markers.
Also, act more girly. Koreans are extremely feminine. Even the slutty ones. Don’t be afraid to be female. Undo the whole Feminist Tomboy thing. That automatically looks less slutty.
Also makes you more attractive.
The clothes don’t need to be expensive. But very precisely well-matched. Contrast makes men look longer;lack of contrast looks boring.
Koreans who show lots of cleavage are looking for too much attention. Show off cleavage a different way.
Europeans embrace slutty but unsluttify it by adding “class” and “elegance”. Then they can get away with it.
It’s like enforced casualness. Casual – but not.
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Thank you Polymath.
Is the ankle bracelet in public absolutely compulsory (upbringing dies hard, and I am very relieved to hear no tattoos)?
Also, I really couldn’t do an exposed bra strap before 5 p.m. in the evening, it would just look slutty in the other sense of the word.
I suppose at least wearing clothes the tightest one can without tearing them provides some incentive not to put on weight, particularly if the clothes are expensive.
I fear that SS style may limit a woman’s ability to move fast however, I note you use the term “normal pace”.
Being lazy, my first thought on reading your advice was that I would have to get up ten minutes earlier in order to avoid missing the bus, usually I run the last 100 yards or so.
But maybe not being able to move fast is the point.
I see my gravatar already has the choker, she is clearly well ahead of her game on this.
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Gorby —
The greatest part about the one guy (yeah, it appears to be just one) who has an issue with me is that he’s never called me anything below a 6 😉
IT’S TRUE LOOOOOOOOOOVE!!!
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@Gorbachev
@Polymath
Guys, thank you for the fashion advice. But I am perplexed. Having reviewed my wardrobe, apart from the ankle bracelet (non-negotiable) and the visible bra strap (non-negotiable during daytime), this is more or less the way I dress already.
Possibly my clothes are not tight enough. But this puts me in a dilemma. Should I
(a) shrink the clothes or
(b) grow bigger.
(a) would obviously be the more palatable alternative but funds are low at present.
(b) would cost less and have the advantage of providing more cleavage, but could cause permanent damage to my BMI.
It’s a difficult decision. Perhaps I will just have to resurrect my sewing skills from fifth grade and take the clothes in myself.
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@LILGRL
And you dudes who seem to have something against LILGRL for some reason, Lilgrl, you can measure yourself against these women and see how you’d fare in Korea.
The greatest part about the one guy (yeah, it appears to be just one) who has an issue with me is that he’s never called me anything below a 6 😉
Well. They do say 6 is fuckable.
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@sdaedalus
Don’t grow bigger.
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doug,
You usually rank women two points higher than most of the other men here. I don’t know if that’s because you overlook “flaws” or the other guys are having a pissing contest with each other.
Then again, Epoxy the best looking thing here, isn’t so hard on women either. Epoxy is so genetically gifted that harshness would be expected and maybe even tolerated from him.
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epoxy For instance, Marilyn Monroe was not very objectively beautiful at all (see here), but every male with red blood and a pulse would’ve wanted to hit that.
is this partially because marilyn Monroe is desired by many men that “smashing” would be a sort of badge among men?
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A follow up to my proposal of #4: “Because guys need it”…
A few nights ago, I”m at a Latin dance party, great vibe…Chinese girl, big tits, tight ass, great dancer, I’ve been gaming giving me strong IOI’s…I play cool…she notes make up on my collar…I tell her I’ll send her the cleaning bill. She says “I’m not wearing make up”. I say: “So don’t be jealous”…She says “Too many girls….” I say: “Never too many…” slap her ass and walk away….
I observe AMOG. Guy is older, somewhat distringuished looking, Eastern European extraction, good dancer…but a bit needs and sleazy in his moves: grinding himself into the girls.
He tries to game my ‘target’…. He’s speaking Chinese to her. From the body language she’s giving that polite but ambivalent look: no laughter, no IOI’s.
After dance…Eastern Euro guy takes her to his table….bends over in front of her to go into his knap sack and starts rummaging around. I realize he’s trying to find a pen and paper to give HER…HIS number.
She’s standing on the floor politely. He ‘s got back to her. Finally another guy swoops in, gets her on the floor.
Formerly Alpha guy…looks up…is standing there looking like his ship has just sailed.
He tries to recover by grabbing another girl on the floor.
Then…after his target has walked away…he finds her again and stuffs a scrap of paper with his number on it into her hand.
At this point, I can’t resist…I walk over to her…grab her back onto the floor…she’s fumbling with the bloke’s number which he wrote on a drink coaster.
Alpha to beta in like 30 seconds…I felt sorry for the guy but it re-enforced for me 1) never number close without getting clear IOI’s. 2) NEVER leave a girl standing there while you fumble for a pen…. 3) If a girl walks away in the middle of your game….NEVER re-engage.
Grabbing someone else was fine…but coming back to her was so beta.
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The greatest part about the one guy (yeah, it appears to be just one) who has an issue with me is that he’s never called me anything below a 6
LILLIAR definitely saw this comment from Plank, but is trying to hide from it :
A 4!!! Four!! That is even much lower than what I gave.
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chic noir-
Wrong.
One higher than many is more like it, other than the real extremists. Lots of guys particularly web PUA’s are working to establish/maintain their cred against almost all critics and yea that bleeds over into pissing contests among wannabees. I generally agree with Roissy on his assignments btw. Unlike many I assign keeping in mind the whole spectrum. (Yeah pretty much limited to white women and certain middle eastern women as the reference point for me.)
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chic noir–
Trying to diss me, are you, because I sometimes (fairly rarely but also fairly recently more) debate Obsidian at his site and generally easily prevail, never mind the vote of his “almost totally unbiased and not subject to insurmountable bias by whte guys in disagreement) readership?
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@Sox
Thanks also for the advice.
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Game on the Edge:
Wherein a Dude tries to game Out of his League
@Bhetti
Zoroastrians, hmm. Keep us updated.
@sdaedalus
Best of luck, Gorbachev, and remember, she’s lucky to have you interested in her.
Just got home from salsa with Persian Coffee Girl.
I went into this expecting to flub it. I debated internally. I had no end-of-night plan beyond seeing what happens.
Fear: LJBFing. I suspect it’s going to take that course, with time; this is the test. Fail, and it’s LJBF.
Objective of night: Yank it back from LJBF precipice.
Estimated probability of success, going in: 20% or less.
WW’s estimate of chance of success, on meeting Persian Coffee Girl: Good luck.
WW and me; Persian Coffee Girl and 2 friends.
Arrival
Collect WW and get to club. Large crowd; it’s a BD or other party. Resto converts to club after 10:30. Party has extremely well-dressed crowd of approx. 35 people, Italianish, lots of very hot guys in tailored suits, 24-35 yrs old. A few long dresses on the ladies. Doesn’t look like a dancing crowd (can tell by shoes, dresses). Lame club dance class going on inside, maybe 20+ people participating.
Miss three text messages: PCG needs a parking spot, and none to be had. I go to text. Ask WW if she can see a parking spot (lots of local traffic on small street, moving slowly). She says: Don’t text back. Run tighter game. Fuck. Mistake one almost made. Let her arrive on her own.
Ignore texts.
First Meeting
About 20 minutes later, I’m in club, dancing w WW; crowd is thick, it’s ferociously hot, no AC, already changed into spare T. Only have 2 more. We look good dancing, but not the hottest dancers on the floor.
PCG is suddenly there, chatting with friends. Dress: Black and white, tight but elegant, silver shoes. Can’t neg outfit. DEAR LORD if she was hot in daylight, WTF, I am at the very outer edge. She’s just arrived. Every head in room, including a few Party holdovers, is paying attention (Some I know from dancing. Excellent dancers and romancers). Large buff Latin waiter comes by and chats them up. Lingers. Appears to be into attractive friend.
Thought in back of mind: I can’t help thinking that this is hopeless.
Finish dance w WW. When done, wander about, chat with a few friends, chat with a woman I briefly spoke to earlier (8, taller than me, no IOI), keeping it in view. Conversation is slow. I’m just working on image.
Introductions
WW comes over and drapes on shoulder, gives me drink (cranberry juice, no alcohol; it’s a Latin club, it’s hot, and dancers generally don’t drink). Move over few feet, see PCG, raise eyebrows, nod head, and go over. WW follows.
Kiss on either cheek; not air kiss.
Introduced to two friends. One is just as hot, if it’s possible, as PCG, but dressed in red, and taller (5’10”). I love red, BTW. The other is not as hot but seems like a fun gal. I hear names but can’t make out one of them. Ignore.
Talk for a long time to less attractive friend. WW talks to PCG and friend. Seem to be having a good conversation. Two men (I recognize one: Lothario, 7, awesome dancer, stylish, has practiced and suave Latin game, I’ve seen him in action. Please fuck off.), come in and ask PCG to dance. Thankfully, she hasn’t changed into dance shoes yet.
Sits and changes, and WW (bless her, do I owe you hard) takes Lothario onto dance floor (salsa social rule: If a woman asks, you must say yes, even if just for one dance).
I talk to less attractive friend. Ask less attractive friend to dance; I know she can’t dance well, so she says no. Go to Hot friend. “I’m borrowing (pcg). Don’t go far.” (imply: dance after)
Dancing
When shoes are done, we dance. She’s very good, better than me, so I try to keep it to basic moves, throw in sexy (slightly). Keep distance; feign formality. Cross into occasional tightness. Break away. Two really clinging turns. Two salsa dances on, one chacha; a bachata; off.
I dance a lot, so dancing game is natural for me. I can play it. That’s a good zone for me to be in.
Goes on for a while. She’s loaded with dancing offers. I beg off and talk to others; I spend 3 songs with less attractive friend, showing her how some moves, including a good, close bachata that all can see. Dance with hot friend once (merengue). Keep it good but somewhat neutral; don’t want her dissing me.
WW Goes Bye Bye
WW tells me when done that she’s seen glances from PCG while I was dancing. Thank you, WW. But I’m about to lose WW.
Hunky But Clueless Guy finally hitting on WW after a month. Time for WW to go; I play up being boned by HBCG for WW’s attention, HBCG seems to fall for it. She’s liked this guy for a month, but he’s been disinterested. Not game; he’s just slow. She ends up leaving shortly with him. I see them later in cafe across street. He doesn’t try to take her home, but I learn that he gives her his number and arranges a non-dancing date. He’s taking her out for dinner.
Resting after an Hour and a Half
PCG and I move over to quiet area to rest; hot friend is being mobbed by one remaining Italianish Birthday Party guy, not a dancer and brave by alcohol (pathetic: Not what to do in a latin dance club), and a few other guys. No idea where less attractive friend is. Likely to show up soon.
Negs over the night: She was late, lost parking; can’t parallel park; shoes too high for dancing, a little showy; lots more. I use subtle ones, casually pay attention to less attractive friend, a few women I recognize.
Some IOIs, but night is wearing on; place closes at 2:00. I need to get something soon. Night is ending.
She turns out to be… sweet. Actually seems a little shy, despite the killer outfit. Could it be true? Is it shy or sly?
Going Outside
Want to stand outside to get some air? No smokers out there now, so it’s good. We go out onto patio. We talk for a while; I find myself being tragically genuine with her. I’m hoping natural charm will work. She seems to want to connect mentally.
I pull conversation to German. She doesn’t seem interested in getting back to dance floor. We talk standing in a corner; charm is good, and she laughs and smiles, but it’s too friendly and open. Not enough moxy. I need to raise the temperature before the fire goes out.
Advancing to LJBF
I feel :He’s such a nice guy” coming on. At the moment, strategic thinking is not my strong point; I know friend will be coming to find us; night is wearing on. I need to land some kind of effect and get out before I screw up, which I know I’ll do.
This is not going as I expected, my game is falling flat. I just don’t have the nerve. I need to hit and run, because if I don’t end this soon I’m going to drag it out and sink.
I realize: If I try to do this over a longer period of time, I’m just not going to be able to pull it off.
If I don’t establish something quick, long-haul romancing will fail.
I don’t normally do Caveman, but I’ve done it before on occasion. Also not going to work here. Maybe Assanova could pull it off. Not me, not now.
Inspiration from Desperation
1:35 or so
Recent experience with being insanely brash gives me an idea.
We’re standing in the corner. Wood wall behind us, railing next to sidewalk, about 3′ high. Area is completely open. Lots of passersby, right beside us on sidewalk. people on other side of street. About 7-10 people on patio. About as public as it gets.
I wait for timing. She looks over, I look deep, I wear an intense but open expression, a long pause, look intent, …
(thinking: WTF AM I DOING, this is too direct, I’m in public (her slut meter has to be sharp, worried), I’m committed now, I’m fucked)
hand goes out, behind shoulder, move forward, kiss her. Jump in. She’s taken aback, I wonder if the timing was good, I jumped a little hard? Moment of surprise, but then ok.
Lasts for maybe 30 seconds. Not rough, but insistent; slightly tender for contrast (hand on cheek: That wasn’t game, just me). She presses one side of her body against me. Arm comes around a bit. Okay, this is better.
Sudden and overwhelming elation.
Must… Think… Clearly…
So I’ve crossed the Rubicon, to my shock; I don’t know if I can hold it once I get across. Now is my chance to get more. I need to up it hard. I want to avoid Buyer’s Remorse later.
Against instinct, I try to Think Like Roissy, the cold, heartless bastard of game that he is. And then it occurs to me.
Push and pull, push and pull. Did I read something about some story or something? It sounds like giving up a finally, finally good thing, but anyway, I’ve got nothing else.
Time to disengage.
I pull away; hand rests on cheek. Serious but friendly look. Stare directly into eyes, say in French (one of her first languages, w/ Persian)
“I’ve got to go.
I’ve got time on Saturday afternoon, (event). Come.”
I don’t wait for a reply. Reach down, drink water. Nod. Beg off, go to coat check, get shoes, change, calmly leave. Say goodbye to doorman, whose name I know and who recognizes me.
Remorse
Thoughts going through head:
I just fucked it up hard. Should have talked more; not textbook enough. Ignored too many rules I should have followed.
I’m not going to hear from her; remorse filling me up. I just blew it all, and wtf was I thinking, going nuclear at the end.
At home, 2:35.
3:15: Text message from PCG.
“I’m free after 4:00 sat.”
Unbelievable. I’m happily in shock.
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So – if anyone can comment, what I did right, what wrong.
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Chic-
lay off my Dougie, I e-swoon for him and nothing you can say will change that. 🙂
SD-
I can sew, I’ll take your clothes in for you my dear.
Lilgirl’s body is NOT a 6 for christ sake, and my face is NOT a 5. idiots. The misuse of rating discredits you guys so badly and ruins my appreciation for the male view given here. Funny how real life differs so drastically from this part of the web too–so I’ll never take some of you seriously.
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Gorbachev-
“Situation: Meet nice girl. All sweetness and light. Seems like 1-3 guys in her past. Don’t game her. End up in bed after a few months. Result: Fucks like some kind of wild porn star; distant and unemotional, but technically could be used as a textbook for a sex manual in twelve editions. Says she’s had 2 BFs, no ONSs.
Um, yeah. She taught me a few things, and she’s had 2 BFs. Must have been some BFs. I’d like to chat with those guys.”
–dude, she’s lying about her numbers. If she fucks like a porn star, she’s most certainly had a handful of one night stands and more than 1-3 boyfriends. …and the whole distant and unemotional fucking? ewwwww! Robotic sex=why bother? Sensual sex=oh yeah baby!
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Um, yeah. She taught me a few things, and she’s had 2 BFs.
BAHAHA! You actually believed her. Multiply her # by 3 at least. Girls always deflate their numbers. Rest assured, she could be a professional cum taster. This semenlier fooled you.
Girls have all sorts of little rationalizations not to count a notch.
He didn’t cum so it doesn’t count
I already fucked a guy named Bill so it doesn’t count
Seven men at one time still counts as one notch
Daylight savings is in a week and it was less than an hour so I’m losing that hour anyway and it doesn’t count
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“Lilgirl’s body is NOT a 6 for christ sake, and my face is NOT a 5. idiots.”
anoukange, I’ve been told IRL I’m a 6 from a reader here. If that’s the case, then your 5 rating might be accurate. But seriously, you’re not an INTJ so why the hell are you worried about a quantitative measurement?
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@anoukange
Gorbachev-
Um, yeah. She taught me a few things, and she’s had 2 BFs. Must have been some BFs. I’d like to chat with those guys.”
–dude, she’s lying about her numbers. If she fucks like a porn star, she’s most certainly had a handful of one night stands and more than 1-3 boyfriends. …and the whole distant and unemotional fucking? ewwwww! Robotic sex=why bother? Sensual sex=oh yeah baby!
Yeah, …
Well, I guess in writing my sarcasm didn’t come out.
I’m guessing she had Roissy levels of ONS and scores. And I was supposed to believe it. Anyway, she never owned up to anything, and I couldn’t pursue.
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Regarding a women’s notch count:
I’ve noticed a lot of guys here saying they consider a girl with 5-10 past partners to be too much (for LTR material) and that she’s basically a skank to them. I say, to each their own and people have a right to use that as part of their selection criteria in a mate.
However, I just don’t see that as being realistic this day n’age. Like someone mentioned in another thread, most girls are losing their virginity in Jr. High/HS now. Things have changed substantially even in the last 5-8 years.
I’ve been straddling the line b/t greater beta and lesser alpha for most of my life and I’m up to around 12-13. 3-4 of those were in relationships, 6 were female friends, and the rest were flings that I didn’t even initiate. Assuming women get hit on 100x more than I have and the pressure they’re under to put out, I find it totally understandable for a girl to have a good amount of experience by the time she hits her early/mid twenties. Especially if she was pumped n’dumped during her more naive years.
Ex. 1: One of my LTRs, my partner had been w/7 before me. At the time I thought that was a lot. The fact was, both of her roommates (and best friends) early on in college were notorious skanks and had been with 40+ guys by the time they each hit 20. My ex was hotter than both of them and must’ve felt pressure to fit in with them.
Ex. 2: My current roommate has literally passed herself through 2 groups of guy friends. She’s probably an 8. She’s been with at least 7 in 3 months. She’s slept with 2 in a 12hour period, including her ex and her ex’s roommate/best friend, and in another case 2 other good friends.
My point is, numbers don’t tell the whole story and I agree with Gorbachev. It’s easy to tell whether a girl’s LTR material or not based on her behavior, not on statistics from her past.
I’d probably start having trouble with any girl in the triple digits though.
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Name-
um, no. Good bone structure, symmetrical facial features, large/almond eyes, full lips, long/lush hair and delicate jaw line do not equal a 5 face rating. I’m not full of myself (when not defending myself against tools) –I am not anywhere near perfect but I know all too well how I am perceived in public and also what my flaws are. A 5 is an average face with no features that stand out. I was employed as a model in my twenties. Add my figure into the mix and I’m in the high 7’s –and fully decked out, at times, possibly even an 8. And that’s at 32 years old, which when meeting me, no one ever thinks I’m 32. I was most certainly an 8 in my twenties…I could hold my own in other countries and was approached/stared at everywhere I went. My style and the way I carry myself helps to support my rating. I am ultra-feminine in my dress and manner. My voice is soft and husky, and my demeanor friendly and somewhat flirtatious.
I’m not sure if you are a 6, I have not seen any pics of you.
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Name,
It’s not quantitative, it’s qualitative. 5=”Plain”, 6=”Okay”, 7=”Cute”, 8=”Hot”, 9=”Gorgeous”. On the 1-10 scale, 5 is in the bottom half; if Anouk’s face is in the bottom half of attractiveness in her town then I want to move there.
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“um, no. Good bone structure, symmetrical facial features, large/almond eyes, full lips, long/lush hair and delicate jaw line do not equal a 5 face rating. ”
Hmm, I’ve got good bone structure as in, I’ll age well because my skin is not stretched over excessively high cheek bones. The problem is at (I’m the same age as you are) I’m mistaken for my child’s older sister, not mother. But I guess you probably one-upped me on the stretch marks since you don’t have kids. Chin, hmm, well I’ll never be in danger of having a large chin because I wish I had a bit more of a chin now, BUT since facial cartilage loosens with age, I look forward to a normal-sized chin in a few decades. Eye shape- actually I got pretty decent eyes, but they don’t quite appear as large as yours because of the extra fat on my face. But since I’m an athlete, I have legitimate reasons for maintaining my current weight. Without makeup, stand out a bit from average, but with animal fat slathered on my face, I gain a whole bunch of points.
As for holding my own in other countries, I’ve never been abroad, unless Niagra Falls and Tijuana count? I’m sure I can beat out most socialist females lookwise, but in Mexico I kind of just blended in due to my hair color.
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It’s not quantitative, it’s qualitative. 5=”Plain”, 6=”Okay”, 7=”Cute”, 8=”Hot”, 9=”Gorgeous”. On the 1-10 scale, 5 is in the bottom half; if Anouk’s face is in the bottom half of attractiveness in her town then I want to move there.
I’d say face- 6, body- 7 or 7.5.
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Tell me i’m pretty!!
No tell ME i’m pretty!!
Look at me!! Look at me!!
I’m NOT old!!
I’m STILL prettyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy
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“notch count”//what matters is not just the number of sex partners but how the relationships ended & how many times the girl has had her heart broken. If she’s gone through 10 wounding breakups she is probly going to be a hardened cynic & may not be able to really fall in love again. If she’s slept with 10 guys & most of the relationships ended without huge pain she still may have a lot of sweetness.
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Name–
that wasn’t a challenge against you. If I had a tone it was towards guys just being jerks about the scale and having other motives for rating people down. They may have done this to you as well is what I was saying.
comment above(girls of R)-
We’re talking sociologically here. …as in my motives. I can respect a stiff scale to gauge how a person may appear in society to better understand where they’re coming from. Why be such an ass with your endlessly regurgitated hate? I AM old. Now go off and play and get some young, fresh 23 year old. And I don’t mean that condescendingly. I don’t blame guys one bit for going younger, honestly. Lucky for me, the old dudes I date think of me as young enough. I do not stand in the way of anyone getting what they want, not my style. Not everything is about seeking attention.
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“that wasn’t a challenge against you” Anoukange, No, seriously I get that. I’m just a ballbusting INTJ with lawyer cunt tendencies, so I couldn’t resist.
Dude masquerading as multiple girls,
I seriously don’t need anyone to tell me I’m pretty. If I’m not blending into my surroundings, I’m not happy. High on introversion, and it’s getting worse with age. Obviously, I don’t want to hear the words “you’re ugly” but a nice “You remind me of my grandmother” would work wonders.
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thanks Poly. You kind man you.
Name-
got it.
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Gorbachev
So – if anyone can comment, what I did right, what wrong.
Haven’t a clue, but whatever you did, it must have worked. That’s great news. Good luck on Sat.
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Awesome work, Gorbachev.
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You did nothing seriously wrong except that your inner game was messed up because of your mood swings — fortunately you didn’t let that show enough to matter.
You made the exact right move at the right time, so it was a big win for you, but it was lucky because your mind wasn’t working properly. What you should have said to yourself is “if this girl were 2 points lower, a 7 instead of a 9, I would be pretty sure at this point that she was into me and she would be wondering when I was going to kiss her. Since I am trying to maintain the frame that I am 2 points higher and not out of my league, the appropriate move is to treat PCG like I would usually treat a 7.”
You’re lucky it was a dance event, otherwise your inner turmoil would have betrayed you, but as it was, you had an excuse to be very sweaty. You’re over the big hurdle now, so it should be easier to stay cool next time.
The real skill you showed last night was in your expert deployment of WW and your flawless handling of PCG’s friends. The negging and the dancing were helpful but probably less difficult.
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@Vincent Ignatius
BAHAHA! You actually believed her. Multiply her # by 3 at least. Girls always deflate their numbers. Rest assured, she could be a professional cum taster. This semenlier fooled you.
I think people didn’t get my sarcasm. What I meant was: If such 2 BF’s existed, I’d love to meet them.
Any woman like that has been, … seriously, … around.
But this is good:
Girls have all sorts of little rationalizations not to count a notch.
He didn’t cum so it doesn’t count
I already fucked a guy named Bill so it doesn’t count
Seven men at one time still counts as one notch
Daylight savings is in a week and it was less than an hour so I’m losing that hour anyway and it doesn’t count
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@Gorby….well done.
A few points and a story to share myself.
I think your game was on…your inner game may be a bit shakey. There seems to be an inner turmoil between doing the right thing instead of just going for it. But that is understandable.
You are the guy who did the Apocalypse Opener…if you can pull that off…PCG is really icing on the cupcake.
The kiss seemed a bit rushed…but without being there, the aftermath and the response was one that we all talk about; shock…gina tingles…surprise….
She goes home…must have talked to her friends or whatever, collected her thoughts…and she texts you.
I can’t see anything “wrong” at all in this. I think the take-away I get is keep cool all night. Keep a good vibe going, the dancing, the moving around the room…the negs etc..
This is alpha game.
Your story inspired me. Chinese girl, we were close, then weird…suddenly bolts, deletes me as a friend…we see each other…have been cool. She ignores me. I have been acting just cool It’s been 4 weeks.
I see her at a weekly Latin Dance party. I’m keeping a good vibe up—dance with the girls…dance with her friends…negs, kino…just being cool.
End of the night…I think of Gorby’s Apocalypse Opener approach and decide I’ll vary it.
No needy beta shit…I’m going to approach this girl to dance. If she blows me off…whatever, it’s the end of the night. Only a handful of people left, no one will notice.
My shoes happen to be where she’s now sitting. I go to get them. Host says “Thanks for staying, you usually have to work.” I say “sure..”
I place my hand on her shoulder. She looks up with surprise. It’s been 4 weeks. I told her she was common….and put in zero effort. She sent angry text never to contact her again.
We stare…neither says a word. I motion to the dance floor. She nods, we walk on.
I neg: “If I’m going to stay, I might as well dance…” and smile. She’s uncertain.
We dance. She gives everything she has in that dance. Holds me close….I can feel she’s nervous. That momentarily makes me a little nervous. But I keep my shit together.
The music stops. She smiles. She looks away. We don’t talk. I lock fingers in her hand. She responds.
It’s the last song. “one more dance”….the DJ says and puts on sappy song.
“One more song, but does it have to be THIS one?” She smiles.
Again…she holds me close. She gives everything she can in that dance….
Lock fingers. I smile, brush her face at the end. She looks nervous but is smiling. Neither of us talk.
She holds my hand as we walk off the dance floor, she kino’s me by holding and I let go.
No goodbye. No second look. I simply walk away and then leave.
My thinking: If I’m back gaming this chick from NO CONTACT game to re-framing, this would be a good start.
If I’m misreading the cues and this was just a polite dance (which I doubt)…then it hit the mark.
My approach was unusual as when I’m in NO CONTACT mode, I blow it off.
But I was the one in control. I kept chit chat to bare minimum. She was nervous and there was tension. Neither of us knew what the other would do.
It was a surprise for her. It was short—2 dances. I was vague—no chit chat about the last 4 weeks.
There was no “nice to see you again” crap….it was cool
Did I misread this or was this handled in an alpha way?
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@anoukange
Lilgirl’s body is NOT a 6 for christ sake, and my face is NOT a 5. idiots. The misuse of rating discredits you guys so badly and ruins my appreciation for the male view given here. Funny how real life differs so drastically from this part of the web too–so I’ll never take some of you seriously.
How to judge based on pictures of eyes. And, then, next point – why is this relevant to anyone? Especially, er, the Girls of Roissy?
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[fixing formatting, and noticing actually largely same thinking as polymath?]
Doug: I’m thinking that was a compliment in chic’s mind, despite the way she phrased it.
anoukange:
haha, adore you.
Gorbachev:
If you asked so nicely… even though my input is a lot different from someone experienced in the field, but a fun exercise for me anyway.
Let me warn you that it’s been a long day and I am slightly out of it.
What you got wrong is this right here. She’s a girl. You are a man. You measure yourself against other men, and other men she’s met.
You think she’s met anyone as hot as you? You think anyone she knows combines smarts, culture, social intelligence, experience and masculinity like you do? You think anyone will know how to drive her crazy like you do?
No, sir, she hasn’t. Otherwise she’d be with him right now.
You’re a prize and don’t forget it.
Good things: WW & seemingly her advice, talking to less attractive friend/paying attention hot friend but letting her have your attention, you make me want to experience your dancing skills. Not dragging out time with her at any point. Great on establishing status, including knowing doorman. That she accepted your invite pretty quickly means she wants more and wants bad. She’s going to come, alright.
Bad things: lack of confidence in your mind, though not really reflected in your actions thanks to your conscious strategising. You’re consistently underrating how attracted she is to you, right? She turns out to be shy: she’s not that socially slick as you overestimated? Right about LJBFing if you didn’t act, especially with slight indicators like her preference for mental connect over dance floor. Plenty of mental connect now. Time for some passion. Hopefully you guys haver had enough of the former, so what’s the game plan for the latter?
Love how you described pulling away. Exactly the right thing to do but the conflict.
Random comments:
Spare t-shirts? Fantastic and clean. I haven’t heard of this.
What textbook?! The Gorbachev Book of Game?
Is it okay to text you when you could be sleeping? Did you reply? When?
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@Bhetti,
What you got wrong is this right here. She’s a girl. You are a man. You measure yourself against other men, and other men she’s met.
You think she’s met anyone as hot as you? You think anyone she knows combines smarts, culture, social intelligence, experience and masculinity like you do? You think anyone will know how to drive her crazy like you do?
No, sir, she hasn’t. Otherwise she’d be with him right now.
You’re a prize and don’t forget it.
Well, taught me my alpha relesson for the day. Thank ye, ma’am.
Spare t-shirts? Fantastic and clean. I haven’t heard of this.
Always a good idea. I’ve been dancing for many years.
Is it okay to text you when you could be sleeping? Did you reply? When?
I was still awake; I don’t know what the 1.5 hr later text was about, chatting with friends?
BTW, this girl can text me any time she wants.
I didn’t reply. I’m not going to; that question and interaxtion is over with. She doesn’t need to hear from me.
I’m going to assume she’s coming and send a note on Friday about Saturday. Matter-of-fact.
“Be at (X). 4:30”
She’ll probably call me after that.
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@Walawala,
I think your game was on…your inner game may be a bit shakey. There seems to be an inner turmoil between doing the right thing instead of just going for it. But that is understandable.
Shaky. More like earth-quakey.
And I always vacillate between the right thing and jumping. I have to consciously choose to jump. My game in many situations is still conscious; a bit of beta left over yet. I can lose frame if I get overwhelmed by the “scent” of a woman.
You are the guy who did the Apocalypse Opener…if you can pull that off…PCG is really icing on the cupcake.
AO was pie compared to this, for me. There was no risk of huge apparent loss there.
It’s the fear of loss that gets you. Or the hope, and thence the fear of loss.
The kiss seemed a bit rushed…but without being there, the aftermath and the response was one that we all talk about; shock…gina tingles…surprise….
I hoped the look would set it up. The look was also genuine, and as un-creepy as it’s possible to get. Helps.
She goes home…must have talked to her friends or whatever, collected her thoughts…and she texts you.
That was my surmising too.
I can’t see anything “wrong” at all in this. I think the take-away I get is keep cool all night. Keep a good vibe going, the dancing, the moving around the room…the negs etc..
This is alpha game.
Constantly amazes me how people can claim game is irrelevant.
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@Walawala
Did I misread this or was this handled in an alpha way?
It was fine, from a Salsa Scene way, actually. I’d have just danced and not talked; presume the dance, presume to behave as you would, then presume to finish, nod head or smile wanly, and walk out. Don’t do anything – anything – to rattle her.
She already dissed you; you shouldn’t acknowledge her reactions any more (or before). Just dance with her. Use salsa game: keep close, then apart; make the closeness plausibly deniable, then break off, then a few fancy moves tight, end on a wrapped-in dip or half-dip, and one great idea, make per perform for you:
Shines. Make her do shines, as you do a stand and hold, if she can; then, to fuck her up, if she gets fancy, don’t indulge her and don’t let her finish.
It’s harsh, but the bonus of salsa game is that you lead, and if you can dance, you can get away with almost anything. Psyching her out and proper (our of the ordinary, but not slimy) kino is easy enough.
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Money/security will always be important to women.
However, that article detects a significant trend in the West (unless it’s stalled by the depression… although it won’t be because women will be making money either way). Notices what type of men the sampled women are engaged/married to – blue collar guys who they have picked for other qualities than their earning power. Studies have already been conducted on this trend, and, yes, women will adjust their criteria and eventually they will not necessarily turn out to be hypergamous. They will find other criteria that are “attractive”. But these criteria will not be something that “signal higher status”, but rather qualities that make a good long term partner. The traits that they will look for will be whether he is pleasant to be around with (having a good sense of humor is a major asset), good father prospect and supportive. There was a poll about what the younger generation of Swedish women want in a man that they’re ready to partner with: that he should be fine, good in bed, a good dad and that he doesn’t make a big fuss if the couple splits (note: they have equal custody rights).
The New woman wants the New man. The time for the classic, sweet beta to come back. 🙂
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Skadi: The time for the classic, sweet beta to be psychologically abused in a relationship with a power imbalance inherent of differing sexual desires and be exploited for his money? Time for a divorce rate so high without any protest on his part resulting in familial instability and the host of psychological pathologies resulting in any progeny of aforementioned divorced couples… you mean?
There is no lack of classic, sweet betas. They’re trying to please the modern woman everywhere. See: your nearest TV set, or most couples in your vicinity.
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wait a second. not so fast, Skadi. what do you mean by equal custody rights? I went a full breakdown.
-alimony
-child support
-parental alientation
-gatekeeper mommies who deny visitation
-mommies who tell their children their father is an abusive asshole
If none of this happens in Sweden then ok, you have a deal.
If women still play these games then fuck it, stay single.
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Gorbachev:
Thank you for services done to womankind by ramping up your attractiveness. Lucky woman, indeed.
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The New woman wants the New man. The time for the classic, sweet beta to come back.
I thought all trends have been pointing in the complete opposite direction.
I had another female friend actually say the exact same thing to me recently, that women’s preferences are changing. Y’all may say you want differently, but I’ll believe it when I see it.
Like Bhetti said:
There is no lack of classic, sweet betas. They’re trying to please the modern woman everywhere. See: your nearest TV set, or most couples in your vicinity.
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@ Skadi
Well, not really. You assume that the western, female-friendly economy is sustainable over the long-term. I would argue that this is not the case.
You’re leaving out important details about this poll: that it surveyed mostly urban Swedish women—which is basically Stockholm. The rest of Sweden is far more traditional and you know it. And it’s really not surprising that more men might be willing to marry in a country where divorce/family law are a bit more equitable.
Women aren’t “adjusting their criteria” because they becoming more attracted to betas. I would argue that what you’re seeing here are outliers. What’s happening is that a small minority of women are settling for betas on a short-term basis for children—while retaining the right to opt out at any time to pursue more alpha-type men that they are viscerally attracted to, hence not wanting the beta to “make a big fuss if the couple splits”.
And you never did reply to my comments on “Curiosity, Women and Game”…
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No, Bhetti, we’re moving past that already. The message was that the women will choose based on his looks/age and personality and his father potential. They are moving past hypergamy. Not all, but many.
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@ Skadi
Well, no. You seem to the western, female-friendly economy is long-term sustainable. However, many of us do not.
You’re leaving out important info on this poll: that it was survey of urban young women—so basically Stockholm and college towns. The rest of Sweden is more traditional and you know this. And it’s hardly surprising that men might be a bit more willing to commit in a country where divorce/custody rights are a bit more equitable.
Women’s true preferences for alpha males aren’t changing. They’re not becoming attracted to betas, but they need to reproduce so they’re willing to settle…on a shorter-term basis, which is why some women are emphasizing how important it is that the men not “make a big fuss if the couple splits”. They want to have kids with the beta—while being free to eventually opt out and still fuck the alpha they are actually attracted to.
Get a clue, honey.
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*I’ll add that this isn’t to say that some women aren’t moving past hypergamy—sure, a minority of them are. But I would say the ceiling on it is no more than 30 percent or so.
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I’ve taken your point and mine is this: It doesn’t matter how much he has, if he is the classic sweet beta, he is going to spend a larger proportion on her than she ever will on him even if his income is less than hers in real terms.
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dragnet,
No, the Western economy is not sustainable, but it can be restructured. Nobody knows how but it doesn’t appear that the West will go back to the classic industrial economy (which it probably should) that would be slightly more beneficial to men. It will most likely be a mixture of service and industries and a knowledge based economy. It is also possible that the government will keep expanding in the US and take over the economy. Nobody knows what will happen. But the economy will not return to its classic industrial stage, the industry itself will change and it will involve many women so they will not be poor. Unless something radical, like war, happens.
But most women in the States stay with betas for more than short term (meaning, over 5 years). And, yea, right, after those women divorce those betas, at age 40 or whatever, they really are in a position to go after the high status alphas. 🙂 I’m sure they’re more realistic about that.
I must have not replied because I didn’t have much time or energy to argue with folks whose opinions about women and mating are pretty much set. Sometimes you just have to agree to disagree.
About this article… the new criteria. Looks, yea, good genes, good health. Charm is relevant. No normal woman wants thuggishness for the long term (ok you only care about sex, so for some it could work occasionally).
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Anouk —
SRSLY. Honestly, if my body is a 6 and my face is a 2 (hahahaha), then these people are NEVER EVER EVER going to get laid. Really their own problem, I suppose. I agree with you that this is not really something to be INTERNET-DEBATED over, because I am completely and totally aware of how I am perceived in real life (as I am positive you are), and no amount of internet posturing is going to affect that.
Gorby —
I keep forgetting you weren’t around in the earlier days. There are plenty of pix of me around, if you know where to look. Most people here know what I and my LOVER aka fiance aka Epoxytocin No. 87 aka hater of Asian girls look like.
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Well, bless him. And, btw, money is not everything.
dragnet, no idea about percentages.. but, hei, 30% is almost one third. So the rest of the 70% are coupled with alphas or higher betas? That’s just not realistic.
So if women remain hypergamous, most of them will simply have to remain single. There’s simply not gonna be enough alphas to go around, even if they rotate (which most normal women will not settle for anyway, at the one’s I know). They will have to pick based on other qualities and men will have to adjust to those needs (like Swedish men have by become better groomed and dressed and being good dads).
Of course, gaming is only about getting laid, so this is all irrelevant.
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@ Skadi
Um, what did my comment have to do with thuggishness? I don’t equate “alpha” with “thuggishness” at all… I’m not sure you know as much about Game as you think you do.
I agree about our changing economy—and about the place of women in it. I’m not one of those guys who thinks women shouldn’t work outside the home or have jobs. I think cultural strictures placing the burden of breadwinning solely on the male are every bit as misandric as the tenants of hardcore leftwing feminism. But I also wouldn’t count out radical social upheaval either. It will be interesting to see going forward.
And the fact that women stay with betas for more than 5 years does nothing to refute my point. It doesn’t surprise me that women would stay with fathers of the children for a fairly lengthy period. My only point is that they are not actually attracted to these men—whether they eventually divorce them or not. Hypergamy will continue to drive the true desires of the vast majority of women—the only question is whether they can and will sublimate those desires in certain scenarios, and for how long. Either way, it doesn’t look good for betas which is why Game will continue to be effective.
Well, no. I’ve definitely had more than my fair share of fun with pick-up, but I’m an LTR guy now. At the ripe old-age of 26, no less 🙂
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money is not everything.
?? no, it isn’t, not nearly, though a significant proportion of the women I know seem to think so. And they have no quibbles about destroying a lot of things around them in the pursuit of money and status symbols.
So if women remain hypergamous, most of them will simply have to remain single.
You see, just because he won’t commit exclusively to her over a significant long-term, does not mean she will not chase him, for whatever he might throw her way. It means no long-term partner when she’s alpha chasing, only. She can stop and get her sweet beta anytime. She can throw away her sweet beta anytime. It means she can cheat on her partner with a ‘higher status’ man and sometimes she can even have extra-relationship liaisons with her partner’s consent, because he doesn’t want to lose her.
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@ Skadi
Well yes, Skadi—this is the most likely outcome. Much more likely than the vast majority of women abandoning hypergamy. And besides, I submit that American men are not so docile as European men—for good or for ill.
And let’s not forget—Swedish women are still hypergamous. A majority of Swedish men still earn more than their women.
And Game isn’t only about sex:
http://pua4ltr.wordpress.com
http://gamingmywife.wordpress.com
http://hawaiianlibertarian.blogspot.com/2009/12/pua-in-ltr.html
http://theobsidianfiles.wordpress.com
marriedmansexlife.com
Please read up about Game before offering anymore of your opinions on it—thanks in advance.
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Bizarre Debate
@LILGRL
Anouk –
SRSLY. Honestly, if my body is a 6 and my face is a 2 (hahahaha), then these people are NEVER EVER EVER going to get laid.
Gorby –
I keep forgetting you weren’t around in the earlier days. There are plenty of pix of me around, if you know where to look. Most people here know what I and my LOVER aka fiance aka Epoxytocin No. 87 aka hater of Asian girls look like.
So you’re getting married to Epoxy. Interesting. Hater of Asian girls indeed. Epoxy, note warnings and instructions for marriage 2.0. Just for reference’s sake.
So, I was wondering what all the pissing was about why the girls of Roissy are so ugly and full of themselves. Not that our opinions matter to you for a second.
I was trying to see what level of “showthemup” scent marking is going on among the men, so I decided to waste 5 minutes and go and have a look for myself.
I’m not gaming any of you, nor pissing in the corner. Neither do I really give a shit, or understand why negging is relevant here.
So I’ll be candid.
Standards: American, urban. Personal tastes recently cover zone between 27-32. Younger much less often unless overseas (Little exposure; I’m not where they are, don’t much care).
I find both Asian and Caucasian women pretty much equally attractive assuming all else is equal.
Note: No good images, except some from Anouk’s blog and Lilgirl’s dead blog.
If this is Lilgirl:
girlgame.wordpress.com/2009/10/27/working-out-with-lil-lilgrls-actual-workout/
And Anouk:
http://anoukange.wordpress.com/page/2/
May 3 and before (several pages)
Bhetti: None I could find
Then:
Any guy who says less than these numbers is parsing among the 7-8-9s too discretely. At this level it’s not necessary. Personal tastes here are going to dictate more than raw generalized numbers.
Anouk:
Body: sweet. 8 in the US. Solid 7 in Korea or France. Very Caucasian frame.
Face: For my tastes, 5.5. European guys will say 7.
Lilgirl:
Body: Undebatable 8. B&W picture says it: Tight and precisely curved. Solid 7.5 in Korea. Asian curves, compared to Anouk.
Face: Hard to tell, but looks like a 7 in the US or a solid 6.5 in Asia, more likely a 7.
Definitely good enough for a pop show on Korean TV.
No man anywhere is going to throw either out for eating popcorn in bed.
Anything else is just general pissing on girls for no good reason unless you’re in active game mode.
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wait a second. not so fast, Skadi. what do you mean by equal custody rights? I went a full breakdown.
-alimony
-child support
-parental alienation
-gatekeeper mommies who deny visitation
-mommies who tell their children their father is an abusive asshole
If none of this happens in Sweden then ok, you have a deal.
If women still play these games then lolzlolzlzlzlzlzlzzzzllzlzzzolzzz!!!!!
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Anouk :
Lilgirl’s body is NOT a 6 for christ sake, and my face is NOT a 5. idiots.
Note that Anouk does NOT dispute that Lilgirl’s face is a 2.
What is not said is sometimes more important than what is.
Anoukange said Lilgirl’s face is a 2.
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Bhetti-
“There is no lack of classic, sweet betas. They’re trying to please the modern woman everywhere. See: your nearest TV set, or most couples in your vicinity.”
-too funny and too true. The stripped polo shirts, the khaki-uniformed shorts, the carrying of the diaper bag, the saggy, paled jeans, the cellphones strapped to their hip, the obeying of a she-male three steps ahead of him,etc…..makes my eyes hurt.
LILGRL-
You be smokin lady! Nice tatas, am jealous.
Gorbachev-
hi-five by the way.
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You are spoiled, anouk.
But you are beautiful and have an enigmatic look. 🙂
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*My comments keep getting caught in moderation—what gives?
And this comment rating app sucks—it dramatically slows down your site and makes it really difficult to post. You should shitcan it.
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dragnet, one more thing about when the Swedish women said they wanted someone who would not create problems during the divorce… it’s not all about sex or the everpresent desire to land an alpha (which btw… I really have a problem with this assumption, either I have a wrong understanding what an alpha is or I simply see a different reality for what women want). Many women simply look for traits that would make a good husband. And money/ambition is not the only thing. Other traits are important and can become more important. Such as being caring. Yea, it is a supposedly a feminine trait, but it’s important if you plan to have that person in your life in a significant way.
When they said they want someone who will split easily, means that they are aware of the realities of today’s life. There is no guarantee that the couple will stay together until the end. There haven’t been such guarantees for decades now. In fact, there have been studies that the average span of the marriage is 13 years or so. The odds of splitting are very high, not just because of hypergamy or male poligamy, but merely because of psychological reasons. They don’t want to damage the quality of their life.
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@anoukange
LILGRL-
You be smokin lady! Nice tatas, am jealous.
Lots of Asian girls have nice tatas. Tutus, as well.
Gorbachev-
hi-five by the way.
I just call it as I see it. If you were a solid 4, I’d have called it.
I don’t know why guys feel it necessary to downgrade chicks on a blog. I walk down streets here, too, and I know what 5 is.
Your figure is the kind I like, so I might be biased. Then again, my tastes vary from time to time, so whatever.
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Just what the hell is equal custody rights?
break it down, baby.
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Dragnet,
Thuggishness was about the blog, not what you said. And, no, I hardly know anything about Game.
There certainly is a possibility of social upheaval. A lot of independent broadcasters talk about it, even though they exaggerate sometimes.
It seems that those women are in love with their husbands. Hm, it’s pretty certain that most of them are, at least in the beginning. Some have a man for security, but many love them.
Look, everyone strives for a better partner. Yes, women want it all, but even they are realistic about what they can get. 🙂
Of course, American men are not as docile as European. I like to say that “America is the man, Europe is the woman”. 🙂 But American guys are still nice. Btw, Russian guys think you are both nellies. Which I don’t agree with. 🙂
Yes, even many Nordic women are hypergamous. Everyone wants the best. But you have to settle for what you can get or stay single. Swedish girls are just so different from American, they dont attach the guys value to money and status that much. It’s just a less materialistic society I guess.
Maybe I’ll read up on Game some day. Not now. Game is too superficial and too.. unethical. You guys have no soul. I only care about romantic stuff, guys who have a heart… not gamers.
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Gorb-
Ha, ha, my hi-five was for your own success with the chick you wrote about. 😉
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Tim, don’t pick on my words. What I meant was that the fathers have it much easier there to have access to their kids.
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@Skadi
Maybe I’ll read up on Game some day. Not now. Game is too superficial and too.. unethical. You guys have no soul. I only care about romantic stuff, guys who have a heart… not gamers.
Skadi, don’t confuse game with what guys do with game. Game is just a tool. It’s a way for men to attract women.
Of course, if you give a gun to a thief who usually uses a knife, and the locals don’t know about the gun, the thief kinda goes crazy and ends up with a big loot stash.
On the other hand, if you just want a wife and want to keep her and have hot sex every night, game works for that, too.
Of course, you can also use it to pick up chicks and take a different girl home every second night.
It’s not inherently unethical. And you can game and have a soul.
In fact, you can game, game hard, and fall massively in love with women. You can love them deeply. Game just makes sure they love you back; the best of you.
Read up on game. Read my earlier post for Biktopia about game and ethics (up there somewhere. It’s a long one).
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It is unethical.
Character makes a man. You choose a man for long term, based on how he treats you, what he looks like and what his habits are. You can only use gaming tricks for so long, the real substance of the man will come out if you communicate with him longer.
Eventually you will want tranquility in the relationship, be loved and protected/comforted, instead of being “negged”, etc.
[editor: you know, skadi, all your complaints have been answered on this blog before many times over. you are not treading new ground here. why don’t you spend some time to read the archives instead of vomiting your ignorance — repetitive and dull as it is — all over the comments yet again? for instance, game isn’t just about the early stages of dating. it is also a paradigm creation for a lifestyle change that makes a man a better lover, protector, and companion.]
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Lots of weirdos in your community… understandably so.
But it’s fun 🙂
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@anoukange
Gorb-
Ha, ha, my hi-five was for your own success with the chick you wrote about
Nice girl, really. Fun, too. Smart. And, of course, super hot.
Just goes to show you what game is for. Lurkers take note. Get game.
I don’t want to say 9, because it sounds like retarded bragging on a blog, but, fuck. Last night: *9*. All around. Whiplash-inducing, in a club with a lot of hot girls (higher number of 7-8 than usually found anywhere). And her friend was just as hot, though totally different look. You’d have to see to understand why I was such a mess.
I’m beginning to think that hard, shocking openers/closings, especially when delivered in public, generate a sharp response, if you get anything at all. The incentive for me to not fuck this up is huge.
A girl like this can truly fuck up your game. You just want her – in every way – more than you should. So does every other male with a pulse and testicles.
I have trouble finding a good photo on the internet to illustrate. Sarah Shahi comes closest. if Sarah Shahi is 10, PCG is definitely 9, no less. Certainly last night. But darker skin, with a slightly more oriental face.
imstars.aufeminin.com/stars/fan/sarah-shahi/sarah-shahi-20061101-174921.jpg
http://photostock5.in/sarah-shahi-sopranos
Imagine trying to game a girl like this and just not-wanting-to-lose.
Probably no sweat to a semi-pro PUA like Roissy. Mystery would zone in and have her licking his feet asap.
But the rest of us, hope is the killer.
But the result made me feel much, much better.
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@Skadi,
Ethics are independent of game. It is unethical.
Character makes a man. You choose a man for long term, based on how he treats you, what he looks like and what his habits are. You can only use gaming tricks for so long, the real substance of the man will come out if you communicate with him longer.
Skadi, …
Eventually you will want tranquility in the relationship, be loved and protected/comforted, instead of being “negged”, etc.
[editor: you know, skadi, all your complaints have been answered on this blog before many times over. you are not treading new ground here. why don’t you spend some time to read the archives instead of vomiting your ignorance — repetitive and dull as it is — all over the comments yet again? for instance, game isn’t just about the early stages of dating. it is also a paradigm creation for a lifestyle change that makes a man a better lover, protector, and companion.]
Skadi, hear the words of Roissy. And the rest of us.
If I’d gamed my wife, I’d likely still be married; she’d be hot for me forever. You don’t choose what kind of man you’re attracted to. You’re as hard-wired and programmed as a man chasing a nice ass. You just don’t know it because the program is deep.
Game is just interpreting the program.
Everything you say about what you want in a man is irrelevant to deciding who you’d be attracted to *sexually*.
And when you get down to it – any man you’re not sexually attracted to is just a friend. You may be living with him and married to him, but he’s just a friend.
Sex is the sine qua non of any romantic relationship.
Unless I’m sleeping with a woman, I don’t consider myself in any kind of relationship with her.
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Gorb-
right on.
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It is unethical.
Then so are push-up bras, implants, and make-up.
——-
Ever heard of Cognitive Behavioral Therapy? Is that in itself unethical
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@Gorbachev,
Game is totally relevant.
Without game, in my case I would have tried to make chit chat…or ask “How are you?” I didn’t. Some small talk to get into it…but my “neg” opener set the frame. “If I’m going to stay I might as well dance.”
I was in control…I opened from the back, not walking up the front.
I placed my hand on her upper arm–in a dominant way. I motioned to the floor without saying a word.
I milked the tension.
I initiated kino and extended her.
I never made more out of it than was there…it was deliberately ambigious: “Why did he do that now?” “What’s he thinking?” “Will he do that again?” “Why didn’t he talk?” “Did I dance well?” “Was I too nervous?” “Was he nervous?’
Chick inner monologue….
After it was over…I walked away…she clutched my hand…then I let go.
Is game relevant? Totally….without “game”…that would have been a totally awkward situation with me second guessing every move.
With game, I was able to totally maintain frame control.
If this goes no where from here…so what? There’s only upside. If I don’t bang her….big deal.
She was also dancing to impress me because up to that point I had danced with all the girls and had fun chatting up her friends….THey love it when I game them.
Is game irrelevant? Game also means “inner game”…which is the most relevant.
I can hold my head high….she dissed me….but I maintained frame control…I was bigger. I was the alpha, not the needy one checking if it was “ok”…
The dynamic was a bit awkward, but what you would expect from a younger girl who acted like a bitch and how was ignored for 4 weeks.
The best part of my “game” that night…it was the last set of the night…so it’s the last thing she is left thinking about…. There wasn’t anything else for her.
Game…totally relevant.
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Gorby,
OK, Sarah Shahi, got it. That girl is solid 9.5 and even among models and movie stars I’ve only seen 4 or 5 true 10’s. (Sarah Shahi is not a 10.0 because her face from some angles is only pretty rather than stunning, but I’m willing to round up….). If PCG is in the same ballpark you have hooked a bigger fish than your tackle is rated for, reeling her in is still going to require great skill.
Your internal turmoil is perfectly understandable when you are with a girl hotter than any girl you’ve previously been with, but you need to do some mental exercises, practice focus and calm, so you can execute a plan.
My advice for Saturday, for what it’s worth: the most important thing is to be the same person you’ve been so far. Project happiness and strength, open with a kiss and a squeeze and then get right into whatever the event you’re taking her to is, take the focus away from the personal and just enjoy the day (maintaining kino of course). Natural opportunities for more closeness will arise in the course of the day, don’t force them, just be ready to notice when they occur. Have at least two different places to take her afterwards, so you can pick one which best suits the way things have been going (one quiet for if she is serious, one energetic for if she is excited).
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@Polymath
Gorby,
OK, Sarah Shahi, got it. That girl is solid 9.5 and even among models and movie stars I’ve only seen 4 or 5 true 10′s. If PCG is in the same ballpark
No exaggeration. A 9 to Sarah Shahi’s 10. At minimum, 8.7. Whiplash-inducing in that club. There were guys obviously waiting for us to stop dancing so they could dance with her. Not one or two, either. Her hot friend was — mobbed.
WW said, on seeing PGC, and I quote:
(snarky voice): “No way. Good luck.”
As a guy, who practices some PUAry, you must know where I’m not hot; 6, with good clothes (last night was just T-shirts and pants, dance shoes; it’s a dance club, it was hot, gotta be practical), maybe 6.5. But that’s as good as it gets for me. Not a decimal point more, without alcohol.
It felt like this:
One coyote, stunned by a crazy catch; surrounded by a pack of pretty fucking ravenous wolves, me guarding my catch thinking: W T F. A million Persians, tiny Athenian militia.
Fellow coyote (ww) took the fall when first wolf came in for a bite; I then delayed only long enough to be sufficiently cool. Kept her on the floor for as long as feasibly possible without looking weenie.
I’m so out of my element, I’m dreaming in technicolour.
you have hooked a bigger fish than your tackle is rated for, reeling her in is still going to require great skill.
I’m planning every step. Any ideas are more than welcome. Actually, ideas from chicks who read game or get gamed would be extremely welcome (taken with a grain of salt).
Never, even when I was in my initial days of wonder in Korea, have I been able to approach this hot. The jump from 7-8 was a big step for me, took a lot of patience and thought; but 8-9 just doesn’t seem scalable.
Your internal turmoil is perfectly understandable when you are with a girl hotter than any girl you’ve previously been with,
Now you get it, eh?
Hope is the enemy. Smart, classy, charming, 9. Thankfully, apparently no money (personally).
Operating here is like operating in space. Fuck up just once, and you’re boned.
Hot guys (7.5, 8+): they can afford to make mistakes, they can afford to be all goody-two-shoes. I got in by brains and conversation and interesting and sarcastic and funny.
same person you’ve been so far. Project happiness and strength, open with a kiss and a squeeze and then get right into whatever the event you’re taking her to is,
IE keep it sensual from the start, but not needy: project that I’m not impressed with hotness. Yup. So says WW, also.
take the focus away from the personal and just enjoy the day (maintaining kino of course). Natural opportunities for more closeness will arise in the course of the day, don’t force them, just be ready to notice when they occur. Have at least two different places to take her afterwards, so you can pick one which best suits the way things have been going (one quiet for if she is serious, one energetic for if she is excited).
WW thinks I flubbed it when I bugged out last night. She says I should have stayed, taken as much making out as possible; but I was in public and didn’t know how long it would be appropriate, and I need nuclear fucking game at every stage. I need moxy.
I need nothing less than shock and awe, just to stay in the same place.
I totally expected buyer’s remorse (“what am I doing with this guy”). I had it coming, I knew. And the text over an hour later seemed to justify my exit.
It’s not like I haven’t done this before. But never have I wanted to catch this much. Or thought it was even possible.
It’s not that I feel unworthy. It’s just that it seems impossible.
If this works, I’ll dedicate a bronze statue to Game.
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Skadi: Doctors are the most ethical profession in the world. Noone is as obsessed with remaining ethical, honesty and respecting autonomy.
Your interaction with any doctor is exactly similarly constructed, to give you the best experience of your care. From the opener ‘Greeting/FullName/Consent’, to the handshake (Comfort building), from the voice tonality (loud/audible), from his posture (Not aggressive/not intimidated = open + inviting). They have rehearsed their routine a million ways using scenarios, roleplays and detailed breakdowns of communication strategies, which they use on many patients. They use the exact same lines over and over, including seemingly spontaneous jokes. They have watched videos of communication masters and learned from the research on this.
They always modify it to their own style. Its improvement on what’s natural for them to make sure the interaction remains ethical: although it needs practice, it is not unnatural for them.
Why do they do this? To give people what they want out of the interaction. Even if you knew them over a period of years, they would not be different. It’s integrated into their makeup now.
Game’s like learning a new language: you learn new ways to communicate and what you say with that is your personal ethical problem, not inherently unethical.
Although even unethical behaviour could be fine by me in certain cases, where a woman isn’t being ethical in return to you. Forgiveness is divine, but revenge is a right and fairness and equal opportunity on the field of love is important.
Nice talking to you. Have a lovely day 🙂
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anouk:
I have a shameful confession to make, which has been preying on my mind.
I wrote this comment. I had a psychopathic moment, where I turned empathy off and did not resist the joke. Succumbing to herd behaviour too.
I shouldn’t have done it in the first place and I had to bring it up but I’m sorry.
It really is awful seeing you like how you were over the whole business.
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@Gorby… check this out…
Now here’s what you wrote…
“Operating here is like operating in space. Fuck up just once, and you’re boned.”
I need nothing less than shock and awe, just to stay in the same place.
I totally expected buyer’s remorse (“what am I doing with this guy”). I had it coming, I knew. And the text over an hour later seemed to justify my exit.
It’s not like I haven’t done this before. But never have I wanted to catch this much. Or thought it was even possible.
It’s not that I feel unworthy. It’s just that it seems impossible.”
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Read these lines again aloud. I did. I’ve written similar ones.
It’s going well…but this is verging on beta thinking and pedestalization. Don’t go there. Write it out, read it….as a warning to yourself. I do. But purge your mind of these thoughts. Assume the shag…
I have learned in these last 6 months that one should always be re-framing that you’re the chooser, that you’re operating from a position of abundance.
There are no “fuck ups”, only opportunities to reframe.
That is what I’m learning as I get deeper into game.
I’m beginning to care less and less what chicks think of me especially hot ones.
The Cocky/funny, neg is their kryptonite. But calibration is also necessary.
Game is really just Advanced Emotional Intelligence aimed at getting laid.
It offers solutions but there is no single approach or “killer app”.
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I have gotten the gist of the main principles of this community and I don’t have the patience or need to go through all the archives and read the hateful comments against women and girls. There is just too much of the negative vibe on this site that no self-respecting woman will delve into it for too long. I already said that some of the things Game assumes about women are apriori faulty.
it is also a paradigm creation for a lifestyle change that makes a man a better lover, protector, and companion.
How can you state such BS? It’s certainly not creating a paradigm to make the man a better protector or companion. Game is essentially anti-romance and anti-family.
[editor: if you had truly read the archives and aren’t just lying to make a point, then you wouldn’t have written what you did above.]
I don’t care if you think I’m primitive or dull
[maybe not, but evidence suggests that you are a liar.]
(I’m not here for an intellectual conversation, btw, but just to make a simple, obvious point which so many of these posters try to evade, just because you come up with uber complicated formulations of some of your experiences doesn’t mean that you have an accurate insight into a certain woman’s nature and can apply that to all women).
[strawcunt. who said anything about all women? exceptions to the rules exist, but they don’t much matter in the big picture.]
As a woman, I know what women want.
[as a man loved by women, i too know what women want.]
Yes, women are different, but most women want love, respect and longevity, they want a supportive partner/husband.
[none of that is incompatible with women also wanting to be seduced and loved by a psychosocially dominant man.]
They don’t want to be manipulated or used by pseudo alphas.
[is makeup manipulation?]
The very premises of Game are faulty (because they are based on a very narrow understanding of women).
[on the contrary. they are based on a very broad understanding of women and what motivates them in all aspects of dating and relationships.]
Women will not pick men based on how good a gamer they are but based on what kind of a man they are, their looks, their intrinsic qualities and how they treat the woman.
[yes they will. the proof is out there. it might help you to get over your ignorance if you thought of game as male seduction. it sounds like the word itself is giving you a conniption fit.
btw, plenty of less physically attractive men have scored out of their league by running game, so your assertion is proven false by the evidence.]
No, Gorb, you don’t choose what kind of a man you’re attracted to physically. Physical/sexual attraction is beyond our control. It is just a start. And just because you’re physically attracted to an a**hole doesn’t mean you’ll sleep with him much less get involved with him long term (things happen and women fall for bad guys but it is not the norm, eventually they disentangle themselves from such relationships). Most people seek authenticity of feelings.
[authenticity of feelings and game are not mutually exclusive. now go back and read the archives for real this time, instead of lying your ass off like the phonyfuck you are.]
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@Walawala,
A few weeks ago, when I shamelessly and foolishly tried AO, and it hit, it was the same: locked eyes and gaze, she blinked first, said, “buy me dinner”. JE told me recently that she was shocked that any guy would ask her that. No-one’s ever done it before. She thought I was joking or creepy, but she actually said there was something about the way I looked at her. It was the same as that clip: I’ve seen the movie before, but I never thought about it. Great analysis.
I don’t do caveman. So that’s out. But this isn’t caveman.
I need Bond’s frame: Shock and Awe. Approach and just know. Effortless. Dominate. That’s what it is:
Domination and invitation.
Domination Game.
It’s a new way of operating for me, this kind of shamelessness. It *seems* cruder, but in fact the timing, the mind-set, the concentration and the confidence is supremely precise and controlled.
Actually, the whole car thing was smart, too, and funny. I think something similarly themed can be cooked up.
Normal sociability, charm and breezy competence, humour and sarcasm and subtle negs, but puncutated moments of shock and awe and constant absolute confidence with her. Assume she’s going to submit: Domination.
Coming from where I am, I think it’s the only method. If I give her time to ponder or think, I’ll lose it. If I get too cozy with the mental repartee, I’ll slip out of seduction zone.
I picked Saturday carefully. All my people. Women I know well. Men who like me and I work with. My world.
If nothing else I’m going to score mega social points by bringing PGC with me.
BTW, I’m going to Asia (Seoul – Shanghai/Nanjing) in July/August. If this works, I’ll bring you something Yankee.
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Wait… excuse me for getting personal, but here’s a guy, Epox, who does not find Asian women sexually attractive, yet he is marrying an Asian woman?
I guess the curvy White women don’t want him.. but that’s alright. 🙂
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Bhetti-
ah hon, no worries. (I’m not sure which comment was yours by the way, it doesn’t say over there.) Shit was being slung at me left and right. And I’m sorry for the pain I seemed to have caused others, many were more upset than I was. But I appreciate your honesty, thank you. By my own design, if I am dealing that openly with something, believe me–it means I have processed it. I was well aware of the possible backlash. I just hadn’t expected the biased retards to throw as much hate as they did at someone they’ve never met. It’s purged from me now, it had to be done. It remains an splendid example of how game can hinder an exchange horribly. He and I just don’t relate to each other and the whole exchange should have been avoided. DC political environment doesn’t help me much in the naive department—we really all do treat each other kindly if involved in the Poly-sci world at all. A lot of those type folks are my friends and I have been in a bubble of protection because of it. It could have been fun, but it wasn’t. It could have been casual and then fade off quietly, with both of us getting what we wanted, but it didn’t. It sucked, from start to finish and I will forever regret it. It is the only exchange in my life that I regret, so I’d say I’m doing pretty good. He misunderstood me and decided to act accordingly. I’m sure it happens all the time in the dating world. What was done to me was wrong and unnecessary but what do ya do? I never had any ill intent towards him and he apparently had a ton for me. I was just looking for some distraction from heartache.
Skadi–
Honey, I had what was one of the worst experiences with game and it was used on me in the most unethical way possible as well…and I still support and encourage the use of game in relationships. I have relationship “game” help me in going the distance of years together with a man and still be sexually attracted to him because of it. I feel for you, I do. I know you have some valid points as to how game’s misuse can be very damaging but it will never be well received here so it isn’t worth it to try to bring it up. As far as your comment about me being spoiled… not sure what you mean there. (?) If reality is what I experienced than I will not be living in reality. I will purposely avoid it. If my shock of my mistreatment caused many eyes to roll, well, I just hadn’t been treated so poorly before and I guess that is very funny to some. And so it goes. Good luck and try to see the good in game, there is plenty.
Gorb-
love your story, as I just read it again. Hang in there and may you get a kiss on Sat. Also, I may not be your type, but dude, my face is not a 5.5 and my weight/curves are in my thighs and ass. (see “photos of me” at the bottom of my blog for more pics) 🙂
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Bhetti-
ah hon, no worries. (I’m not sure which comment was yours by the way, it doesn’t say over there.) Shit was being slung at me left and right. And I’m sorry for the pain I seemed to have caused others, many were more upset than I was. But I appreciate your honesty, thank you. By my own design, if I am dealing that openly with something, believe me–it means I have processed it. I was well aware of the possible backlash. I just hadn’t expected the biased retards to throw as much hate as they did at someone they’ve never met. It’s purged from me now, it had to be done. It remains an splendid example of how game can hinder an exchange horribly. He and I just don’t relate to each other and the whole exchange should have been avoided. DC political environment doesn’t help me much in the naive department—we really all do treat each other kindly if involved in the Poly-sci world at all. A lot of those type folks are my friends and I have been in a bubble of protection because of it. It could have been fun, but it wasn’t. It could have been casual and then fade off quietly, with both of us getting what we wanted, but it didn’t. It sucked, from start to finish and I will forever regret it. It is the only exchange in my life that I regret, so I’d say I’m doing pretty good. He misunderstood me and decided to act accordingly. I’m sure it happens all the time in the dating world. What was done to me was wrong and unnecessary but what do ya do? I never had any ill intent towards him and he apparently had a ton for me. I was just looking for some distraction from heartache. Yo are forgiven luv.
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Gorbachev,
This advice is probably superfluous, but since you are going to be in the equivalent of combat where adrenaline interferes with rational thought, reinforcement is good:
There are different kinds of game, and some are incompatible with others. Although asshole game is recommended for 9’s in general, it would be a big mistake here. You’ve already made an intellectual connection and a physical connection, so you don’t need to get her attention, and you’re working expert game and Daddy-game which do not coexist well with asshole game.
Also, looks ratings work differently for girls. Although being a 6-6.5 may make it much harder to get an 8-9 to feel attraction, once attraction is there the number hardly matters any more, so stop worrying about it. A guy who is really into a girl who is a 6 will still get his attention diverted when an 8-9 shows interest in him; but once a girl has focused on a guy she is attracted to, if he can maintain her interest the looks of other guys will stop mattering.
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@polymath
This advice is probably superfluous, but since you are going to be in the equivalent of combat where adrenaline interferes with rational thought, reinforcement is good:
I know this, but it makes sense to hear it.
There are different kinds of game, and some are incompatible with others. Although asshole game is recommended for 9′s in general, it would be a big mistake here. You’ve already made an intellectual connection and a physical connection, so you don’t need to get her attention, and you’re working expert game and Daddy-game which do not coexist well with asshole game.
Asshole game isn’t my forte, anyway; I can go all caveman (I’ve done it before) but it’s been pretty so-so in the past. My heart’s just not in it.
Also, looks ratings work differently for girls. Although being a 6-6.5 may make it much harder to get an 8-9 to feel attraction, once attraction is there the number hardly matters any more, so stop worrying about it.
Her friends worry me. The attractive one, one of her best friends, is, by all measures, completely stuck up and full of herself, and is hugely superficial (nice to be able to afford to be that way). One of the Beautiful People, obviously, and likes to dominate. While dancing, she was overtly picky about who she danced with, though in Salsa people usually just dance with anyone, it’s no big deal. I suspect I know what she’ll be saying about me, no matter how bright or charming I come across. It was fine the other night, but she wasn’t very friendly to me, though she was hugely friendly to lots of other guys. Operating factor: They were all hot, 8+, every one. She also wore red, and was extremely showy.
The big giveaway was her dancing: you can read a lot from the style. A lot of extra zazz; a bit princessy, taking a moment here and there to snub my lead to show off; she got frustrated when I gave her no opportunity to do shines or something fancy for too long. Her steps were too wide, usually a sign in a practiced dancer of a girl who’s trying to claim some personal show space. She was totally showboating, or wanted to.
So she wont be impressed by me much, as my charms I’ve never sent in her direction.
A guy who is really into a girl who is a 6 will still get his attention diverted when an 8-9 shows interest in him; but once a girl has focused on a guy she is attracted to, if he can maintain her interest the looks of other guys will stop mattering.
I keep forgetting we project our own habits onto others.
I’ll just have to assume this and proceed as if this is the case regardless.
New development: PCG has texted and asked if her two friends, the hot girl and another guy, can come along on Sat.
I’m debating how to prevent this. In all the flim-flam and foo foo, I’m settling on more shock and command, because my mind can’t settle on a particular strategy amidst the not wanting to lose this fish.
Direct game response:
Text: “Come alone.”
Possibly: “Come alone. Wear X”; this last as a test.
I think the bonus is that if it actually works, every time I use this kind of domination tone, and carry it, then she’s under my influence just a little bit more. Catching will be easier.
The risk is flaking. I don’t actually want her to flake. I don’t want to push it. By definition, doing this is pushing it pretty hard. Maybe this is what’s necessary? Anything else seems like a half-measure, a little bit weenie.
I usually just let my charms do the work. But I know that’s not enough in this situation.
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anoukange –
Recoiling at the sad spectacle of you committing seppuku in full public view, without a competent second to end the writhing with swift decapitation, is more like it. For some reason I can’t remember the movie now, but it really reminded me of the scene where a character is hell-bent at shooting himself dead, and failing miserably at it.
Just because you’re trying to spin/reframe this as hurting other people’s wittle feelings now, don’t make it so.
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Wow dilbert, you really are just an absolute jerk aren’t you? Are you a professional web surfer? Do you log thousands of hours online so you have some of your value as a person sewed up in how well you maneuver in the web world? We would be different then. Over and over you come at me, hating, picking on, mocking. You yourself say I’m such a pathetic example I guess it shows you kick the weak. How manly. But, honestly? I’m sure you are manly, it feels like a man is typing at me when I read your comments. My apologies were to the eyes that had to read the shit, for their hurt. It was a heartfelt and also a somewhat tongue in cheek apology to them.
Spin? Nah man, I was hurt. That was pretty clear I thought. I just didn’t like people telling me how I felt about things. But hey, I guess you never grew up with any sisters so you like to grind the dagger, not in my chest, facing me, but in my kidney and from the side. Thanks. Keep it up…it feels good.
I am an evil, heartless feminist bitch who clearly needs to be taught a lesson. clearly.
Or maybe, just maybe….the point I valued higher in it was worth any shooting myself in the foot.
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No, I get no jollies from kicking people when they’re down, and that’s hardly what I’m doing now – or what I did on, what, two or three occasions when I addressed you before, more-or-less imploring you to reconsider your apparent commitment to publicly crashing and burning. If you’re already aware of what a sad spectacle you made of yourself, to which you certainly seemed oblivious before, then my latest comment was merely redundant and should not be stating anything you don’t know already.
If, on the other hand, I was correct in interpreting your blithe comment as further insulting those whom you’ve already made lose their lunch, then you may thank me for setting you straight. Or not; I do this, not out of an expectation of gratitude, but out of empathy, however misplaced.
Either way, my interest in this is once again exhausted. Have a good day.
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@Skadi
dragnet, no idea about percentages.. but, hei, 30% is almost one third. So the rest of the 70% are coupled with alphas or higher betas? That’s just not realistic.
So if women remain hypergamous, most of them will simply have to remain single. There’s simply not gonna be enough alphas to go around, even if they rotate (which most normal women will not settle for anyway, at the one’s I know). They will have to pick based on other qualities and men will have to adjust to those needs (like Swedish men have by become better groomed and dressed and being good dads).
They do pick based on other qualities, woman. They settle for their nice beta boy. They might even like him and be nice to him sometimes.
When they fuck someone outside their relationship, it’s always someone more alpha.
Obviously, as a guy who often enough gets to pound these grateful women to the tune of “I completely forgot my BFs/Husband’s name”, and where these women have a million rationalizations for their behaviour, I don’t have a clue what I’m talking about.
@Skadi, you well and truly have no idea what you’re talking about. You sound like an eminently gameable chick.
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Do you know anything about PCG’s friend’s date? My guess is that his presence can be turned to your advantage, as long as he does not actually prefer PCG to her. If he has any game, you guys can coordinate in a mutually beneficial way.
Say “I have plans for the two of us afterwards, but [initial event] has room for them so it’s cool.”
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Hey dilbert?
What would have been really embarrassing is having the exact scenario we both reference here happen in real life. God, how embarrassing!! oh….wait….it DID happen in real life, except it was reversed! I was on the receiving end of a spectacle,… several actually.
“Either way, my interest in this is once again exhausted. Have a good day.”
–like I said, my apologies to those that were more affected by it than me (now).
oh, and empathy? Yeah, that would have been not commenting at all. Or sending me a private email. But maybe it’s my definition of empathy that’s off tho-
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The advantage of this response is if she doesn’t say anything you’ve already established the frame that there will be more to come later in the evening, and that you’re the one leading, in a way she can’t really object to because you are actually acquiescing to her request.
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@Anoukange
Gorb-
love your story, as I just read it again. Hang in there and may you get a kiss on Sat. Also, I may not be your type, but dude, my face is not a 5.5 and my weight/curves are in my thighs and ass. (see “photos of me” at the bottom of my blog for more pics) 🙂
Hey,
So the pissing contest makes no sense to me. Anouk is not some ugly ho. This is what i get from the numerous shots of you back in your blog and those shots under pictures of you. Guys dissing you are just taking puerile potshots to make some point, puerile because it’s obvious. If they don’t like your words, they should diss your brain, not your ass.
So sexual aesthetics can be discussed w/o reference to overt sexual attraction. I’ll divorce them for this note.
I did say you’d be an 8 anywhere in the U.S. I love the ass. Exactly my type of body. Stone cold hot. Delicious. And your breasts may be small, but are proportionate and I appreciate that form, too. In Korea, … 7. The competition is just too fierce.
But basic response from Maleness (me, most men I know) would be 8. Not easy to distract when target acquired.
Very French aesthetic, overall.
I’ll mention specific pics so you know what I’m talking about:
-Red, you with camera, mirror. Sexy pose, incidentally.
-Come fuck me pose, leg crossed over other, lying on side.
-Half shots of lower body
Face, … not my style. A French guy would call you a 7, maybe a 7.5, but that’s just style. I’d say 5.5; why? See picture of you looking up at camera in bad light, diffuse speckles in view (dirty mirror). Cheeks somewhat drawn in; eyes wide and bright, very sharp cheekbones, architecture of face too sharp. Maybe 6. But really, you’d go over well in Paris. Kapow in Bordeaux. Please Please Talk To Me in Reims.
Chest
You have the correct-sized chest for the right kind of hot, curvy European feel that you project. No shame there. Don’t bother to make excuses. Small tatas are right on the right body.
Overall, the higher body score gets you a solid 7 anywhere, an 8 in the US at NYC house party. In a smaller French city, you’d have to beat them off with a shitty stick.
You’ll keep your figure with minimal work, BTW.
@lilgirl has an odd-ish Asian face, but is solidly 8 all around, but for her it’s all body: toned, young, curved exactly right in exactly the right places, no extra meat. That’s harder to look after long-term, and note: I see it a lot in Asian girls. She’s got it good, but the proportion of Asian girls that get that is higher than Western woman do your look well.
The tone can slip; the hips are less flared, so the natural curves, which are perfect now, will be harder to hold up through kids, life, and desk jobs. Yours will do well.
That’s the best body form on an Asian girl, in my opinion; yours is hottest on a European.
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@polymath
Do you know anything about PCG’s friend’s date?
All I know that he’s not her date. They’re both loose cannons. I heard about this guy. He’s PCG’s friend.
My guess is that his presence can be turned to your advantage, as long as he does not actually prefer PCG to her. If he has any game, you guys can coordinate in a mutually beneficial way.
This could be the result. But it’s me: my caring too much to allow extraneous variables to start poking themselves in.
Say “I have plans for the two of us afterwards, but [initial event] has room for them so it’s cool.”
The advantage of this response is if she doesn’t say anything you’ve already established the frame that there will be more to come later in the evening, and that you’re the one leading, in a way she can’t really object to because you are actually acquiescing to her request.
I want her free of complications: No driving friends home, no later appointments, no catering to their needs or going out together. I need her alone and all to myself. We can be spontaneous. Harder to run game is there are other people’s wishes to take into consideration, and game is hard enough in this situation now.
But good call.
I already sent the text. Here’s the exchange as it went, so far. I’m calculating every move. Timing, too.
The event isn’t formal, but slightly work-y.
Time index: 11:30
Me: “Come alone. Something white.”
>> This was thematically stolen straight from Roissy.
Delay: 30 min (ominous. Thought it was baked; flaking?)
Then:
Her: “How about a summer dress?”
Delay: 2 min
Her: “jupe hier soir etait pas mal?” (Dress other night wasn’t bad?)
Delay: 15 min
Me: “Okay. Bring cover, sthing warm.”
Delay: 20 s
Her: “Why? Warm weather sat”
Delay: 1 min
Her: “Need to be warm?”
Delay: 20 min
Me: “For later.”
Delay: 5 min
Her: “You are demanding”
Delay: 1 min
Her: “what r people wearing”
Delay: 15 min
Me: “I’ll pick you up if it’s easier. 4:30.”
Delay: 20s
Her: “(location)?”
Delay: 1 min
Me: “NP. See you tomorrow aft.”
Delay: 20 s
Her: “Tomorrow”
(phew)
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@Gorby…
met my “target” at Latin dance night this evening…I was with American friend based in Seoul who was visiting for the weekend. We had a few drinks, hung out….great vibe.
Again…near end of night, last set…approach target. Cool…No words….just pull her on the dance floor.
She loves the drink I have…asked me if there was any more, or would I whip up some cocktails…”Maybe…depends…” my response.
We dance…. again..this time I’m in control. I neg her…she laughs. I grab her ass, ask her about her tatoo…compliance…she laughs…says she won’t tell me what it is…
Without “game”…scene would have been like this:
“hi…so how’ve you been?….Long time huh? You ok?” Blah…. Game…the PUA assumes the shag…operates from abundance, plans long-term, doesn’t get rattled by short-term rejection.
The last four weeks of NO CONTACT are forgotten. I introduce her to my visiting friend who also gets game. Nothing of her cuntiness and my asshole game is mentioned. We pick up where we left off. It’s cool. Beta would have been angry…Alpha…picks up where we left off.
We take photos….she has a drink with us, it’s loose, it’s all cool…She leaves… me and buddy hang out…great vibe.
“You’re so handsome”…Chinese girl code for “I’m into you again”…. I laugh…”always” I wink…like Daniel Craig…
No goodbye…there’s no need. We’ll pick it up from the next time we see each other. That’s “game”…no neediness.
Meanwhile, my friend is gaming some other guy’s girlfriend, while the girl he’s visiting is waiting for him outside. It’s the best night in a long while.
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“The thing is, they’ll get the good genes because their parents had them young but they’ll suffer from a lack of being brought up by experienced, worldly and learned parents. ”
I’m going to sort of have to disagree with you there. Please stop spouting off feminist propaganda. You sound almost as dumb as you did the other day scrambling to defend your looks. This time, though, I won’t be issuing an apology.
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dammit guys, i already changed my license plate to “2FC6BDY”
@anouk:
your face is clearly not a 5.5, not even if you’re not my type (which you’re not…sorry). and, um, no offense gorby but “a 7 anywhere and a solid 8 in NYC?” the competition is obviously higher in NYC, than it is in a lot of places around the world. also, you’re definitely higher in korea. au contraire to what gorby seems to think, being high in the us and/or even slightly western-looking (as i am) is sure to get you at least 75 percent more attention in east asian countries than you’d normally get in western countries. if you’re looking for the more “asian” figure then sure, you’re not cutting it (and obviously, neither am i), but people in korea — save for foreigners specifically looking for asians — are not looking for this.
basically, if you’re X in major cities in the USA (NYC, LA, Miami), you’re X+1 everywhere else in the USA, and X+2 or 3 in east asia.
@gorby
because you care so much, here’s a picture of my face:
http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=gxoCPb9
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@Gorbachev
Disagree on those ratings…I wouldn’t jump to conclusions about those who rate lower, saying its essentially out of spite.
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Lilgrl,
As a female, I’d probably rank you higher than most guys here would. But I’m biased and always reserve higher ratings for jet black hair. On a binary scale, your nose is “soft.” At a quick glance, it seems that when males rate females, the 9s and 10s all have “hard” noses, in some cases practically nonexistent noses. I’ve never seen a male rank a girl a 9 or 10 with a “soft” nose. It makes me very paranoid about my nose, because it’s the one feature I’d change if I had any tendency toward plastic surgery, but I don’t. You’re soft/soft/soft on eyes/nose/lips, which I am as well. It’s almost a curse really, hit or miss. If you get lucky, you can find someone who appreciates the look (which I think you already have). The feedback for females on 3 soft features usually represents a wide variation either “gorgeous” or “borderline ugly.”
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@ polymath
I’m not feeling this scale, because it’s so detached from my male instinct.
As I pointed out above, there’s going to be a certain degree of disconnect between where a woman sits on the 0-10 “beauty scale” and where she sits on the 0-10 “wanna fuck scale”. If there’s going to be one single number, then it’s going to have to conflate both of these metrics.
If any man claims that his beauty scale and his wanna-fuck scale are exactly the same, then either he’s lying or he has basically no sexual experience at all. There will always be women who aren’t that hot but have that sexual je ne sais quoi, just as there will always be women who are objectively gorgeous but who still wouldn’t arouse my more carnal desires.
To wit:
5 = I’d be completely 100% indifferent to her.
6-10 = increasing degrees of “I’d want to hit that”
4-0 = increasing degrees of “I’d be repulsed by that”
That’s all.
Also, the scale starts with 0, you fuckers. What joke of a scale doesn’t start with 0?
—
Since we’re all too smart for our britches here, we should start using Z scores or percentiles, so that all the quantitative arguments would be put to rest immediately.
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@ gorby
So i googled sarah shahi, and the first picture that came up was this:
Sarah Shahi
She’s cute, but she is not aging well.
She looks good here:
Sarah Shahi
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@Walawala,
Without “game”…scene would have been like this:
Walawala, you’ve got it.
That was me. I’m SO glad I learned before I went to Korea. It made my year and a bit there, … twenty times more interesting.
Guys take note: Chicks want *Men*.
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@LILGRL
no offense gorby but “a 7 anywhere and a solid 8 in NYC?” the competition is obviously higher in NYC,
By anywhere I meant globally; in the US, anyone who’s an 8 somewhere else gets to be 9 in the US due to fatness. I used NYC because if you’re an 8 in, say, Spain or Japan and you go to Buttfuck Mo, then you’re a 12 when you arrive.
So I used NYC to indicate that even in NYC a hot foreigner will score due to fatness.
than it is in a lot of places around the world. also, you’re definitely higher in korea. au contraire to what gorby seems to think, being high in the us and/or even slightly western-looking (as i am)
I hadn’t seen your face. I couldn’t evaluate.
‘ is sure to get you at least 75 percent more attention in east asian countries than you’d normally get in western countries.
Yeah, now that i can see your face, you’d get more attention. It would be a grasp for the exotic (extra because you’re not Caucasian). But I had no way of evaluating.
if you’re looking for the more “asian” figure then sure, you’re not cutting it (and obviously, neither am i),
Anouk has a hot figure; in France, she’d go over like dynamite.
but people in korea — save for foreigners specifically looking for asians — are not looking for this.
You mistake it. Korean dudes would be all over Anouk. She’d need a submachine gun.
basically, if you’re X in major cities in the USA (NYC, LA, Miami), you’re X+1 everywhere else in the USA, and X+2 or 3 in east asia.
Other way around. Girls in Asia are 1) Much more feminine, 2) Much skinnier, and 3) More homogenously attractive.
The raw percentage of 6-7 is MUCH higher there; the percentage of 8 bodies is also higher. Food, diet.
TEST IT. Go to Korea. Except for novelty, Korean chicks are on average more attractive than typical Americans. Same for France or Spain.
Just be being skinnier, and having much better skin, Koreans arriving in the US get a completely unfair +1.
@gorby
because you care so much, here’s a picture of my face:
http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=gxoCPb9
Yeah, you’ve got a Western look. I’d say 6, in Asia your big eyes will get you 7.5 easy. The eyes will do it.
You’d be mobbed by Asian guys.
But guys here, who are only after Caucasian women, won’t say the same. Being able to appreciate both pretty much equally, you’re a good mix.
2 is retarded. I’d say average it out: 8 body, because you’re not just skinny and curved, you’re fit, and your ass is shapely (not a guarantee w/ skinny or fit), and 6.7-7 face.
I still don’t get the pissing contest.
You know what you get from men.
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@Epoxytocin
So i googled sarah shahi, and the first picture that came up was this:
Sarah Shahi
She’s cute, but she is not aging well.
She looks good here:
Sarah Shahi
Second picture is PCG. Darker skin, slightly more oriental looking. Equally hot body.
Exhilarating and numbing. Nothing makes my blood boil like this kind of woman. This is what living is for.
*Insanity*. Totally out of zone.
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Man, get over yourself. I grew up in Tokyo. I know very well what Asia is like.
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Where the hell do you live? Like, Knoxville or some shit?
If you control for touristy urban centers, the difference isn’t that big. Most of the expanding waist-land is in the wasteland.
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By “this,” I meant the typically Asian figure. I am basically saying that the only guys who are really hot for the Asian figure are guys who kind of have a thing (nothing wrong with that) for Asians.
I’m sure you feel this way, but most guys (that I know) do not. Spanish chicks are kind of manly looking, too — it’s softened a bit in the South American types. In general, mixing seems to be a good thing. On average, I would say that Americans are (as long as they’re not fat) more attractive. Basically, if you were to take an American mutt, a Spanish girl, some exotic Eur-Asian mix, and a full-blooded Korean, who are about the same size/weight/etc, I’d wager that the American girl and the mix would get the most attention 100% of the time, assuming your guy sample was random.
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Epoxy,
I am not sure if you mean the WF scale to involve more than pure genetically endowed looks — if attitude, clothes, body art, etc., can be considered then of course it can diverge greatly from the PB (pure beauty scale).
Even if you only look at unadorned physical appearance, PB and WF still differ, but only slightly — WF gives figure a higher weight relative to face. Thus a 6 face with a 9 body might translate to WF8 or PB7.5. (By the way, I sometimes see ratings preceded by the letters HB, what does that stand for? Hotness/Beauty?)
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@Epoxytocin No. 87
in the US, anyone who’s an 8 somewhere else gets to be 9 in the US due to fatness.
Where the hell do you live? Like, Knoxville or some shit?
If you control for touristy urban centers, the difference isn’t that big. Most of the expanding waist-land is in the wasteland.
Americans just don’t believe the whole Fat America thing.
It needs to be seen to be believed.
Lilgirl and Anouk:
6-7-8 women here have justifiably inflated senses of self-worth because there are so damned few of them compared to other countries. Hot women here have much higher sexual marketplace values than they would elsewhere.
Lilgirl: You’re actually not just not fat, you’re in shape. Add up the number of 20-35 yo women like you in your city and divide by the total number of 20-35 year old women. Do the same calculation in Tokyo. Where is it better for you?
It’s better for you here. Your ability to sift through available men is much higher.
Tell me that ratio isn’t pathetic. Tell me it doesn’t make you more valuable here than it would in, say, Tokyo.
Guys desperately need to travel in Asia or Europe. Any in-shape American woman is as good as gold, because most of them are just fat.
Roissy said it: at least 50% of American women are fat off the scale, and are absolutely worthless in the sexual marketplace. An average American woman goes overseas and she’s a total cow.
If American women (or other men) are offended by this, then tough: actually go and travel and then tell me I’m wrong. Don’t sit there and spout shit unless you travel.
Fatness is a disease here. And we think it’s normal.
Most American women have excised themselves from the world of male desire. The ones who stay in the zone see their market value go through the roof, priced way out of range of most guys.
By Country
Korea: Size 3 is actually fat. Most women under 30 are 0-1. Many are well-endowed and seriously shapely, too. Seriously, if you’re bigger it gets almost impossible to find clothes anywhere in the country. Talk to any American chick who taught English in Korea. It’s depressing. I heard it all the time from American women there, white and black: it was like a celibate purgatory. They’d walk into a room in the US and be normal. They’d walk into a room in Korea and be the fattest things for a thousand miles. And there’s a good number of tall Korean chicks, too. The resentment at Korean women and white guys dating is off the scale.
An average Korean girl has a much hotter body than an above-average American girl in Korea.
Here, size 8 is tragically common.
HK: Make women in Korea look fat. Koreans are amazed at how skinny HKers are. The women are just tiny. Half a chick’s social value comes from being skinny, if not more. Go up 2 sizes from 0, you’re basically human garbage. You might as well not exist. No exaggeration.
It’s soul crushing for larger women. And people there are utterly merciless. Being fat means nobody notices you exist. See how easy it is to get a job there if you’re a bigger woman.
Shanghai: If you’re bigger than 2, you might as well kill yourself. So many 20-29 year-old size 0-1 hotties, men can’t pick a target. Also well-endowed. And sometimes tall, too. They may be vicious and crocodilian, but hot they definitely are. Foreigners (especially the French and Canadians) have a huge thing for Shanghai girls. Don’t even talk about Nanjing or Suzhou.
Beijing: Big tall girls. More meat, but also very skinny. Go north, you get athletic, full-framed women who look like their ancestors conquered countries (they did). Fatness rare, but size goes up. The American excuse “Asians are all small and tiny” disappears up here.
Anyone who’s lived there can verify this easily.
Japan: Skinny (almost sickly) is standard. Same 0-1-2 size range. A lot of Japanese chicks are taller, too; weight doesn’t generally go up, they stay lean. Some bigger women, but nothing like the US. Also true in the sticks.
Europe
Paris. No comparison to *any* American city, even NYC, proportionally. And better dressed and more feminine.
Bordeaux: A little stuffy and bourgeois, but tight, hot 25-35 year-old French women are common. Dijon, Reims: Same.
Those cities are the sticks in France. Go to the sticks in the US and do some comparisons.
Switzerland: Out of the German cantons, same as France. Can get a little matronly over the age of 35, but the women stay oddly attractive as they get older. Something about the Swiss French. The German Swiss are a weird, hard-to-generalize bunch (and they talk funny too). But still less fat than Americans.
Netherlands: Dear God the women are awesome. Tall tall tall tall: Still not fat. Yummy. Where in the US can I get this on a regular basis as a general segment of the population?
Canada
Anyone been to Vancouver, Canada recently?
Buddy who went with me:
“Hey, check it out. No fat chicks.”
Crossing back to Seattle:
“We’re not in Vancouver any more.”
Wouldn’t stop saying that for days.
Toronto, Canada:
Not as good as Vancouver. Still better than urban America.
USA
Okay, so do like you said and control for touristy centres. Get rid of the visiting Midwesterners. Dry up the actual tourists in Florida, and just look at folks in Miami. LA: Redondo and Manhattan, Venice Beach. Nothing inland. SD, okay, not so bad. SF: Disinclude Oakland.
Alright, I might give you that.
But once you spend time in Asia, and take a look at the girls, and then go to say
– Boston and suburbs. Fuck, anywhere in Mass.
– NYC (meaning the entire area- NJ too)
– DC (everybody – all races, suburbs out to say Alexandria)
– Philly
– Atlanta
– Miami (little Cuba too)
– LA: Redondo and Manhattan Beach in LA are skinnier, but go inland in LA and it gets all chubby again. Try Ontario ca. Or Irvine (only saved by the number of foreign college students)
– SF – including Oakland and the valley
– Seattle
– Good Lord, how about Chicago. DON’T EVEN START on Chicago.
– Seattle gets less chunky but still not skinny.
Compare any of these with:
The Korean countryside (stickville), second cities: Pusan, Taegu, Gwangju. Jeolla-do is as rural as it gets there. Even Jejudo. Almost no fat chicks.
Hang out on the beach in Haeyundai: then hang out in Miami or LA. No fat chicks *anywhere* in Korea.
Japan: Osaka. Greater Tokyo (incl. Yokohama), the whole Kanto plain. Okinawa (WHA! Gimme). Even Sapporo and Hakodate are fucking hot cities for women, though Tokyo beats them hands-down.
No experience w/ Taiwan, but I’m guessing it’s got to be better than the U.S.
Singapore: Too mixed to generalize. The Malaysians get tubby. But the Chinese are all skinny and lean. The men do, however, look like girls.
You can still do it here. It’s just a lot harder.
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Oh, by the way, LILGRL — I am relatively new here so had not seen good pix of you. Verrrrrrry nice. I won’t say “exactly my type”, because I have several favorite types, but you hit one of them right on the button. If I met someone who looks like you in person I’m sure I would be taking steps to increase the likelihood of future encounters.
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@LILGRL
I am basically saying that the only guys who are really hot for the Asian figure are guys who kind of have a thing (nothing wrong with that) for Asians.
I guess I just like both. I assumed tight curved buns were popular everywhere.
I’m sure you feel this way, but most guys (that I know) do not. Spanish chicks are kind of manly looking, too — it’s softened a bit in the South American types.
I thought barcelona was filled with feminine women; maybe the Catalan are different. But Madrid had hot women, too.
In general, mixing seems to be a good thing.
Mixed Asian-White or Asian-Black seems to go over very well.
On average, I would say that Americans are (as long as they’re not fat) more attractive. Basically, if you were to take an American mutt, a Spanish girl, some exotic Eur-Asian mix, and a full-blooded Korean, who are about the same size/weight/etc, I’d wager that the American girl and the mix would get the most attention 100% of the time, assuming your guy sample was random.
But then you’re missing the fact that more than half the women here are fat.
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Gorb-
“Very French aesthetic, overall.”
I’m highly influenced by French culture and style and I’ve been fortunate enough to visit several times. I fit right in in Paris and may eventually move there in a few years. I’m also petite/thin (size 2) like the girls there and I pull a lot from the fashion scene. People ask me if I’m french all the time—I think it’s the bangs. I’m a mix of German, Irish, Italian and Iroquois Indian, so my look changes with the seasons as to how tan I am, etc. I don’t find my type of “looks” the best/hottest in the world for sure. It’s so nice to have an actual conversation over here. Your break down of my photos was insightful to me, thank you for your thoughts.
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@anoukange
“Very French aesthetic, overall.”
I’m highly influenced by French culture and style and I’ve been fortunate enough to visit several times. I fit right in in Paris and may eventually move there in a few years. I’m also petite/thin (size 2) like the girls there
As I said about fatness. You’re gold here. In France, less so., but more at home, probably.
and I pull a lot from the fashion scene. People ask me if I’m french all the time—I think it’s the bangs. I’m a mix of German, Irish, Italian and Iroquois Indian, so my look changes with the seasons as to how tan I am, etc. I don’t find my type of “looks” the best/hottest in the world for sure. It’s so nice to have an actual conversation over here. Your break down of my photos was insightful to me, thank you for your thoughts.
I’ve spent a lot of time in Europe. Your entire aesthetic is Euro. Specifically, French. The half-photos were best. Good shots. Captures it.
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“In France, less so., but more at home,”
–yeah, I’m not looking for an edge in that sense, just a few years lived there to maybe excel my aesthetic style, hone my eye even further. It would be to the same effect of playing tennis with someone better than me. Paris and DC are similar, in ways. Obviously because of the city design being by a Frenchman and the layout of no buildings being taller than the obelisk… etc. The weather is the same. At peak (happy) hours in Dupont, you can almost squint hard enough and see a blurry version of Paris –but with more drab colors. Then the people come into focus and it all goes to shit.
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@Gorby
Anywhere in East Asia (Korea, Japan, China/HK), I am in absurd demand. I get a lot of attention in general (I know, I know AJT/TOOD, you are shocked at my bald-faced lies), but yeah, I’m definitely more sought after in East Asia (although, admittedly, I seem to pique the interest of the AZN fetishists here).
However, I cannot reasonably argue with you if you insist that size 0 – 2 is the ideal. While I detest legitimate fatitude, exactly 100% of straight males with whom I have come into contact appreciate the non-skeletal look.
Oh, save for the ones with AZN fetishes. Just kidding, even they would rather have girls who are 4 – 6 rather than 0 – 2. Obviously, there are exceptions — some girls in the 0 – 2 range have enough fertility fat (just a really tiny frame) that they’re still appealing (see anouk), but that’s not the norm. Most Japanese size 0’s look like boys. Size 0 – 2 is really the ideal look for the modeling industry (which, as we know, represents what gay males and straight females find attractive), and that’s about it.
What Japan were you in? I have never seen a Japanese woman taller than myself, and I lived in Japan for a good, um, 18 years.
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@anoukange
At peak (happy) hours in Dupont, you can almost squint hard enough and see a blurry version of Paris –but with more drab colors. Then the people come into focus and it all goes to shit.
Ah, DC. That’s how it is. The shit, too.
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If we’re talking about “not fat, but in shape,” then it’s WAY WAY BETTER for me in Tokyo. The one thing about almost all of East Asia (and by “almost all,” I mean “all”) is that the skinny chicks are NOT IN SHAPE IN AT ALL. I equate the weird softness they have to the nerd-soft that you see in pasty white guys who sit in front of their computers and are not fat, per se, but look like they’ve never lifted anything heavier than a computer mouse in their lives.
It’s actually quite hysterical that you would say this, because basically every East Asian girl I’ve ever seen (from East Asia, that is) wouldn’t know what to do with a dumbbell if it smacked her in the face. Asians generally have a higher percentage of body fat, so this is actually a bad thing and ends up making them look kind of squishy unless they have ZERO percent body fat. An ex-boyfriend of mine once likened the calves of Japanese girls to pieces of sausage. Not fat, certainly, but so weirdly undefined.
In the place where I live (currently San Francisco, recently, Manhattan), women are far more likely to be in shape than in Tokyo. Absolutely no question.
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Gorby & Polymath,
Commented on the wrong thread.
Here’s the link.
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@ Skadi
Yep. That must be it.
They’ve had a way of using me for my body and then throwing me away. Heh.
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@Epoxytocin No.87,
Look man, size 0-2 is just too thin in my book. I have a sickness for the (good kind of) thickness.
I’d take a size 8 over a size 0 any day of the week, no question.
Basically, I have the tastes of a black man. But there are a lot of us out there.
Okay. Given. I’ll buy it.
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@Lilgirl,
The one thing about almost all of East Asia (and by “almost all,” I mean “all”) is that the skinny chicks are NOT IN SHAPE IN AT ALL. I equate the weird softness they have to the nerd-soft that you see in pasty white guys who sit in front of their computers and are not fat, per se, but look like they’ve never lifted anything heavier than a computer mouse in their lives.
Wracking memory. Yeah, OK. Japan was especially like that, but Korea, too.
It’s actually quite hysterical that you would say this, because basically every East Asian girl I’ve ever seen (from East Asia, that is) wouldn’t know what to do with a dumbbell if it smacked her in the face.
Hm. Self-correction.
Also true.
Asians generally have a higher percentage of body fat, so this is actually a bad thing and ends up making them look kind of squishy unless they have ZERO percent body fat. An ex-boyfriend of mine once likened the calves of Japanese girls to pieces of sausage. Not fat, certainly, but so weirdly undefined.
Yeah, … Japan was disappointing that way. I didn’t think about it at the time. True.
Okay, I’ll give it to you.
But I see the Asian girls here being stared down and hounded by guys starving for anyone, … not fat.
You’d be your own best guide about what you get in Tokyo.
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@LILGRL
Anywhere in East Asia (Korea, Japan, China/HK), I am in absurd demand.
Okay I get it now.
I get a lot of attention in general (I know, I know AJT/TOOD, you are shocked at my bald-faced lies),
I’m sure it’s true.
but yeah, I’m definitely more sought after in East Asia (although, admittedly, I seem to pique the interest of the AZN fetishists here).
They’re AZN fetishists. They tend not to discriminate. Hot + Asian = Go.
However, I cannot reasonably argue with you if you insist that size 0 – 2 is the ideal. While I detest legitimate fatitude, exactly 100% of straight males with whom I have come into contact appreciate the non-skeletal look.
HK girls are pretty popular here (east coast). I wonder if all the white guys in Asia are just fetishists. Could be. Would make sense.
I can’t see it; I don’t discriminate on that number.
Oh, save for the ones with AZN fetishes. Just kidding, even they would rather have girls who are 4 – 6 rather than 0 – 2. Obviously, there are exceptions — some girls in the 0 – 2 range have enough fertility fat (just a really tiny frame) that they’re still appealing (see anouk), but that’s not the norm.
There’s a lot of buxom (non-surgery) Asian girls I’ve met who are pretty darned thin.
Most Japanese size 0′s look like boys.
Japan is particularly small-breasted. It’s true. Even compared to China. I wonder why.
Size 0 – 2 is really the ideal look for the modeling industry (which, as we know, represents what gay males and straight females find attractive), and that’s about it.
What Japan were you in? I have never seen a Japanese woman taller than myself, and I lived in Japan for a good, um, 18 years.
I don’t know how tall you are.
I knew lots of Korean girls 5’7-5’8. It wasn’t uncommon.
One thing I didn’t like about girls Japan was their physical weakness (total lack of strength and just general endurance) and their flabbiness. You’re right; as I recall, it was disappointing to get close to them and discover there was just a general mushiness about them. No mass, but also, … no mass.
And they look so sickly. I mean, the Chinese have more variety, but they generally don’t look like they just got out of the hospital or they’re anaemic.
Japanese girls are some of the best salsa dancers anywhere, though. THOSE girls were tougher.
Wait, I might have an explanation. A large proportion of the Asian girls I’ve been with have been salsa dancers. When you dance, you dance a lot (2-4 nights a week), so that might have something to do with it.
Also, I tended to hang out with activity groups in Korea. They did things like, … mountain hiking (they call it climbing in Korean, but it’s not), badminton (the girls), volleyball.
My sample may therefore be somewhat skewed.
I’ll reanalyze.
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Gorbachev,
I remembered something that I want to ask you. Back in the day, I sat next to a girl I liked in high school.
She asked me one day, “What do you think of so and so? Do you think she’s pretty?”
She was talking about one of her friends. The friend was indeed an ugly girl. So that was my answer. I told her that she was ugly.
Looking back, I wonder what the purpose of that question was from her perspective.
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@Jules Verne
Gorbachev,
I remembered something that I want to ask you. Back in the day, I sat next to a girl I liked in high school.
She asked me one day, “What do you think of so and so? Do you think she’s pretty?”
She was talking about one of her friends. The friend was indeed an ugly girl. So that was my answer. I told her that she was ugly.
Looking back, I wonder what the purpose of that question was from her perspective.
Hey,
Roissy would be the better equipped to cynically determine what was going on here.
I’ll try non-cynical.
1) her friend liked you and the girl was testing
2) “” and she was seeing if you were the kind of guy who would like such an ugly girl. She was possibly doing both.
Cynical
Highschool girls are the worst for qualifying males: their behaviour is the most extreme and the least inhibited. They’re the most vulnerable to alpha males. An Alpha in a highschool can get any female if he tries and has the time/duplicity/charisma (he can get close to all of the valuable ones that would otherwise be available, for sure). Highschool and early 20’s women swoon for rock stars; they’re absolutely led by their instincts. They can barely think. They’re prime pickings for an Alpha male who knows how to control and manipulate them.
3) She was checking to see if you had the balls to say the girl was ugly, you bad boy
4) She was just looking for a personal ego boost. How valuable that would be would have depended on your social value.
5) She was cruel and wanted to dis the ugly girl (Very likely if the girl was a “friend” – highschool girls are among the cruelest humans to their “friends”, with whom they are in eternal one-upmanship and down-putting and show-upping competition).
6) She was suggesting that you belonged with the Ugly Girl – an insult to you, a test for you, and a way to neg the girl and you as well as place herself on a higher social level.
7) It’s likely that there was a facile attempt to test you, put her down, indicate to you that she was pretty, see if you think you deserve better, see if you agree that the girl is ugly and therefore the girl is ugly, …
Possibly she was saying : That girl is ugly, you think she’s ugly. I’m not ugly, look at me. Say something about me.
She could have been doing *all* of this. Girls at this age are sophisticated in their social manipulation. Males are simple and create and negotiate relatively simple hierarchical structures, in which they jockey for position.
Females are unspeakably vicious and byzantine. With a word, they can crush another girl or devastate a clique.
Never underestimate the multivariate nature of their behaviour.
Get a woman to tell you what the hell was going on. I’ll guarantee you this: Any PUA analysis of what she was saying is only partial. The entire theory is designed to interpret female behaviour for its utility to males.
The truth is that when it comes to social interaction with a group, especially when other females are concerned:
Males are secondary, and primary only in as much as they’re pawns in the struggles that girls endure with each other.
We think we’re political. We’re nakedly political.
So the real reasons are best asked to–
A woman. She may not admit everything or examine everything, but they know what it is that they hate about other women and what they don’t trust. Get an honest woman to tell you.
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@Jules Verne
WW has some words for you.
She says for sure, there was a clique thing going on. If the ugly girl was a friend, there had to be some politics there. If she asked, “Is she ugly”, instead of “What do you think of her”, then it was about cutting up the girl as well as anything else.
*However*, says, WW, you have no idea *why* she was cutting up the girl. You’d need an anthropologist with a notepad and a keen eye and a mind-reading machine.
She says when there are questions like that it can only be peripherally about you. A PUA might see those elements, but these are entirely peripheral to her larger motivations.
WW says: At that age, scoring with guys (not necessarily sex at all) is a way to not just get a guy but fight internal and external wars with other women.
WW: It’s why even if they don’t want to, girls will often sleep around because they’re more subject to peer pressure than males.
Me: I know the society of males is pretty cruel; but the hierarchy is straightforward to navigate.
WW: Women in groups are absolute bitches. They can’t be trusted. Highschool is the worst time because Boys and Attraction enter the picture after puberty, and a new element is entered into the internecine struggles.
WW: Workplace is filled w/ women. They value their workplace relationships with men far more than other women. The men treat them better when competence is shown. Women are the opposite: the better they are at their jobs, the more vicious other women are, but also the more subtly this contempt is displayed.
Highschool is far worse. Absolutely, according to WW, you figured ultimately only as a minor character in some drama in this girl’s head. You were a trope, a piece of furniture to be manipulated.
It’s very likely that the ugly girl was used as a non-threatening “friend” that could be relied on to not be competition and therefore be more trustable. But ugly is treated as disposable by other women, even more than men.
(ie, guys can respect the fat kid or the ugly kid if he’s fun, funny, interesting or whatever; the fat girl is hated by all all the time, especially other women).
WW: There are exceptions, but the general rule is good.
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you are all gay fags. i don’t respect any of you here. please ‘dead’ this thread.
“these two suck each others’ cocks!”
this is on behalf of like fifty thousand click-throughs
……
……. zzzozzle
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Jules, I’d have to know what you mean by ugly. If she was disabled or had some real defect, or if she was plain, or if she was fat.
It sounds like the friend liked you, and the girl wanted to know if you liked her. It could be for some malicious reason, but usually when a girl asks you about another girl, it’s to try to get you together. It could also have been that her friend was getting picked on or felt bad about herself, and she was looking for a guy who would say that she wasn’t ugly.
If she never got picked on or other guys were always telling her that she was pretty, then you did well by not following the crowd. If however, everyone picks on her, then you lost because you’re just like everyone else and may seem to be trying to ingratiate yourself to the in crowd.
I was a non ugly, “ugly” girl in high school, and didn’t find out that most of the guys in my school wanted to shag me until 10 years after. The chorus wailing about how ugly I was were just following guys who put a lot of effort into trying to make me feel bad about myself, on behalf of jealous girls. Picking on me was like a male bonding activity on the level of a Gay orgy.
So yeah, high school girls can be pretty malicious. The question is whether you were being a tool or the girl was legitimately ugly. If she was just socially ugly then you were a tool.
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Question: Anyone have any good responses to this shit test:
Her: “What do you like about me?”
Me: I don’t…let’s get a drink…
Me: You have all your teeth….
Me: I like that you don’t ask a lot of stupid questions all the time…
Anything worked before?
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Polymath —
THX 🙂
Anouk —
For the record, you are hot.
Gorby —
After this I shall be done with this thread. A few comments:
I’m 5’7″, and I consider myself of perfectly average height.
Are you sure these well-endowed AZN beauties were natural? Korea is a fantastic place to get plastic surgery. Not to say I haven’t seen a couple of natural D/DD-cuppers, but they’re definitely the majority (and I guarantee that I have seen more Asian girls than you have). Unless by “well-endowed” you mean a full-B/C-cup.
I’m sure what you meant was: Asian = Go.
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*should read “they’re definitely not the majority…”
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“She asked me one day, “What do you think of so and so? Do you think she’s pretty?”
She was talking about one of her friends. The friend was indeed an ugly girl. So that was my answer. I told her that she was ugly.”
I suppose she wants to see how you respond. Do you provide an honest response? You could have said, “I guess I could always put a bag over her head.” Obviously, most 15yo boys wouldn’t say that out loud. (thankfully 🙂 If there was no chance that she’s close to her friend in looks (the friend was genuinely ugly), then she’s probably not trying to guage how you compare the two of them. But if she’s like most females, she won’t hesitate to point out her friend’s flaws directly to her face. Girls can be quite nasty in that way. If I had high school to do over again, I might consider gangbanging the football team, rather than waste time hanging out with other girls who use the word “friend” to disguise all sorts of questionable motives.
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Name-
I was thinking out loud there and coming not from feminist propaganda, but from having parents that both married and had me very young. I paid a hefty price for their lack of expereince and financial stability. My childhood years were difficult and unnecessarily so in my opinion. I just don’t agree with having children young if the parents don’t have the finances to do so. My personal background is what has kept me from marrying and having kids. Some of my responses to things here is more for my personal needs and not recommended by me for the rest of the folks out there. What good is the nature of the best genes if the nurture fails so miserably that the potential of the child/person is lost? Half-assed planning and the selfish projecting of needs onto a child is not ideal wouldn’t you say?
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Gorbachev, Nicole, and Name,
I didn’t say that the friend was ugly. I think my response was more like, “Ummm… no.” My voice and facial expression implied that I didn’t find the friend attractive.
I’m sure there were many motifs behind her asking. However, gauging herself against her friend to confirm that she was prettier/check my interest seems like a good guess for primary motif.
This was during a time when I was clueless about attraction and failed to make a move despite obvious signs (her mentioning how soft her hair was and asking me to feel it, complimenting my shirt, subtle touches with laughter at my most mundane comments/jokes, etc.)
Nicole, the friend was popular. Ugly as in butter face (very uh pig-esque face?), but part of the popular clique. And the girl that asked me that question was slowly engulfed/recruited by that clique. By senior year, all the sweetness was gone and she was a goner.
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@anoukange
I just don’t agree with having children young if the parents don’t have the finances to do so. My personal background is what has kept me from marrying and having kids. … Half-assed planning and the selfish projecting of needs onto a child is not ideal wouldn’t you say?
Wholeheartedly agree. Most humans should wait or stop breeding until they can pay for it.
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@Jules Verne
This was during a time when I was clueless about attraction and failed to make a move despite obvious signs (her mentioning how soft her hair was and asking me to feel it, complimenting my shirt, subtle touches with laughter at my most mundane comments/jokes, etc.)
With that info supplied, I’d go with yes, it was checking you out. Why are you asking? It’s obviously a rhetorical question, then.
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@LILGRL
@Gorby
After this I shall be done with this thread. A few comments:
It’s gone on way longer than it should have.
I’m 5’7″, and I consider myself of perfectly average height.
For here, yes.
Are you sure these well-endowed AZN beauties were natural? Unless by “well-endowed” you mean a full-B/C-cup.
A full C on a small frame is the same as a D on a big frame. It’s proportion – not absolute size – that carries the effect. Double DDs on a massive girl (eugh) illustrates this.
But I get the point.
<I. They’re AZN fetishists. They tend not to discriminate. Hot + Asian = Go.
I’m sure what you meant was: Asian = Go.
No. There are some that give pause to even the most ardent fetishist.
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anoukange,
I believe you said something like older parents are more “worldly”. Personally, I feel the opposite, my parents were too “old” when they had me, hence my desire to become a parent at an earlier age (but a completely normal age from an evolutionary and fertility perspective). Young parents CAN be more limited in the amount of resources they can provide depending on career path and also, unfortunately, because they deck seems to be stacked against male 20somethings as far as earning potential. But with proper motivation and desire (and there’s nothing like having a kid to kick in a primal, competitive instinct), those odds can be overcome.
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Anoukange,
Here’s the breakdown. Kids later in life = kids being younger when parents die. Losing my dad as a teen/young adult was no picnic. Just when, arguably, I needed him the most, he died. And kids don’t really cost as much as feminists would lead most to believe.
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Jules, in that case, you did very well, but the girl asking you that question was too socially vulnerable for it to have made a difference. You dodged a bullet.
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Nothing from Gorby yet, so either he had a disaster he is too traumatized to write about, or he’s doing very well….
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Why game will contiue to be relevant….so guys don’t act like this…
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@Polymath
Nothing from Gorby yet, so either he had a disaster he is too traumatized to write about, or he’s doing very well….
Hard Game. Keep it hard. Never ran it this long, this hard. It’s possible to fall back into chummy mode as soon as you get comfortable.
On The Relevance of Game, for sure. Holy shit, talk about testing game.
So this is how I decided to operate out of my league.
Any comments would be more than welcome.
As I said, I’m not some expert; I’ve just been practicing this for a half decade or so, and run as often as not off intuition as much as anything else. And the impression I want to give. I make mistakes (less, now), but it happens often enough.
If you recall my text message exchange: I said to wear white. I took a chance with that.
– picked her up. She was waiting by the street; Outfit: White dress. White scarf.
White summer jacket tucked away.
*Wow*. Again thinking, holy crap.
She got in. I didn’t move to kiss her. I said nothing about her outfit (tried not to be obviously drinking her in).
Drove, chatted. I was friendly. Funny.
Arrived. When she got out of the car, I came over and put my hand on the small of her back and kissed her. Gently, carefully; not for a long time.
Walked into (event). The people all knew me. I walked in, and once there, introduced her to a few people, set her up, and walked off and chatted with a few others. It was smallish; maybe 40 people.
I was absolutely normal. Made sure I paid attention to others. Didn’t monitor her. She spoke with most of the people, especially the women.
Amazingly, none of the men came up to her and talked individually.
Not one.
Of course, she was the most breathtaking object of female beauty there, without comparison, but socially out of her element (no-one she knew: this is critical, disarms her beauty and social poise). I had a zillion stares from everyone. I didn’t care, of course; the point was to carry it for her.
Some interesting stuff, but no hard game run while we were there. Some good conversation. Lots of kino: casual touching, reinforcing, suggestive. Appropriate.
I picked up something: She’s not conservative, but her Anti-Slut-O-Meter is tuned high. Also, I think she doesn’t fool around much. I gleaned that she’s had a few serious relationships, and from her demeanor, for sure, she’s not particularly slutty. Flirtatious, but there’s a careful reserve about her; smacks of the casual discarding of players.
Noted: Modified approach. I have now decided on what to do, given certain situations.
Most of the rest of the details are likely salient, but pale in comparison to the rest of the evening, so it kind of blurs out.
Flash forward:
We leave at about 8:00. She has to get back to her place because she’s looking after her friend’s dog. I drive her back, and say nothing about it; then when we’re talking about something else, I say invite myself along by saying, “Let’s walk the dog somewhere interesting.”
She seems taken aback, again. “What does interesting mean?”
I smile, and say, “Trust me.”
We get back to her place, get the dog. I’m rolling with this.
There’s a (spectacular view) dog-park area. We go there. Spend time. Lots of kino; hand here, then withdraw, hand there, withdraw, walk ahead, chat.
I let myself out: I started acting more boyish. Relaxed. Talking about various subjects, life, experiences.
She seems to be genuinely enjoying everything.
Come across (spectacular scene). I just look; I don’t attempt to use it to get close to her physically, which I could. I just stare. Intense. The scene was pretty impressive, so getting lost in it was easy. I’m quiet and serious.
We stay for a while, and then go back. At about 9:00, I drop her off, and say, sorry for the short night. I didn’t know you had to look after a dog. (FUCK, why am I apologizing, damn, it’s so easy to slip up).
She smiles and says no need to apologize. She liked my friends. I work with interesting people, she says.
She hasn’t gotten out of the car. I notice this. She’s made no move. I wait, then I move.
I get out. She gets out, and as we walk over, I ruffle the dog’s head, play with it.
She says, “I’d invite you in, but it might look inappropriate.” I note the choice of words (In French, it’s even more specific).
I say, “What makes you think I’d come up?”
Which is absurd because I’m male and no male would say no. Right?
“Well, you know.” (i.e., she’s not a slut; I respect her. Which I actually do, but I ache anyway).
I lean over, and kiss her.
I keep one hand free, the other behind her back, but this time I pull her against me hard; she’s hugely into it.
I say, “Don’t worry.”
She says, after a few minutes, “Come up. If you’re good.”
“You first.”
I’m thinking: Okay, I’ve done this well so far; mistakes I’ve made haven’t been deadly. Clearly I’m in the zone. 5 years ago I might have been thinking: Score. But not now.
Rule one: When you get to this stage, DO NOT stop gaming. Once you get comfortable, recall all the phases of Mystery (heh) and remember that you can be LJBFed in a split second.
I go up, there are uncomfortable moments, we relax. I make no move for her. I look at her books. No roommate. Nice place, well-kept. We chat. It lasts for a while. We talk about a few authors whose books she has.
Now, by this point, the halo I’ve put on her head is starting to blind me, but no less so that the dress she’s in. Or more like peeking out of.
I know one thing: I might be able to play this tonight, but again, I’m sure men have been with her at this juncture before. They’re not here right now. So, … Don’t Fuck Up.
I’ve decided on exactly what to do.
I go to leave, and by the door, say I can show myself out (down the stairs). She come up, gives me a hug, and then the goodbye cheek kiss; I look at her, smile, and kiss her properly.
Lasts a while.
* Note: Sexual comments follow. Nothing too explicit, but before anyone gets huffy, they’re not gratuitous; they illustrate game elements. Also used for emphasis. Some details very slightly changed to make sure it’s not identifiable.
End up nearly making out standing up. It’s crazy time. Constrained and restrained. I swear, I thought I was being consumed by it. Men are so weak.
Any actual *thought* is gone by this point.
After an hour, or 22 million years, not quite sure, we’ve moved over to her sofa, and I desperately have to pee. Note the having to pee will save me later.
We make out for what seems like ages.
BTW, I don’t care what anyone thinks, it’s virtually impossible to control these situations unless your blood runs cold. You absolutely, insistently have to fuck.
I feign resistance when it gets intense; say, wait, no, I like you too much to jump like this. I joke, say, “I don’t even know X about you yet.”
ButmMy hand goes down; wait for resistance, some brewing maybe, decide not to see if that’s what it is. Not exploring; suddenly insistent, as if I’m supposed to be doing it.
She’s as wet as Niagara Falls. Seriously, it shocks even me; she’s so aroused she comes by touch within seconds. I keep it hot for a long time; must have been about half an hour. I am, incidentally, about to burst a gasket or three. I can’t remember being this aroused. Of course, more’s the point, I can’t remember anything.
* Note on hot girls: When you connect, a hot girl arouses a man like nothing else. It also makes you hard as granite.
And now for the point of this story.
My clothes stay rigidly on.
And, much to my weeping pain, I do what I decided to do if it came to this situation the day before.
I also have to urinate so badly that I’m about to explode. It makes it all that much easier when…
She’s more than happy to extend this evening, and starts to address the issue; but I pull back. She’s still exhausted and in an orgasmic haze; I’m tender, gentle, and extremely intense with insane lust; she looks at me in exactly the way I want a woman to look at me.
And I go nuclear, again.
Push, pull.
That I’ve managed this this far is beyond all conceivable hope I’ve had since I met her. Or ever. But I know that fucking is not (all of) the prize.
But I want everything: Nothing else. I must have this woman. I absolutely have to have this woman. Getting laid is nothing (well, er, it’s a lot of something, but less than what I want). The desire to have her completely is stronger than the desire to just fuck her.
Moral note: Player? Duplicitous asshole? Only interested in sex? Interesting how these lines never seem so clear. Game critics might contend that a guy will go for the quick lay all the time. Right? We’re only after sex?
I say I respect her to much to do anything like this to her (finger in pussy as I say this); this might be true, as well, but in this situation, replace “respect” with “want”. I honestly tell her I choose to respect her and I know she’s not a bad girl. Note: From her perspective it means I’m clearly not playing her, right? And it shows that I’m still judging her: is she a slut? Am I better than her? She knows I’m not faking it; and she can tell that I’m a bit of a bad boy by our activities).
What is game for, here: Getting sex with hot chick, or trying to generate a relationship? Both?
By the time I go to the bathroom and come back, she’s composed herself, tries an excellent seduction (I’m so weak), but before she can do anything I push away, and we move toward the door.
It might appear to her that I’m judging her slightly: Hey, this is not what we’re supposed to be up to. But I’ll do it. Maybe.
I look at her, laugh a bit, laugh at myself, smile at her; then more serious. I say, in direct, now familiar statement-like tone: “Wednesday, come to my place. If we want, we can go out dancing (near me).”
I give her a serious, half-serious expression, and leave.
Okay, it’s the morning.
I get this series of text messages. I haven’t responded yet.
“I never do that.”
“You’re the sweetest gentleman. Dangerous.”
“What are you doing tomorrow?”
Then:
“Call me”
I still can’t breathe.
THEORY:
Nuclear Game when operating out of your league. Push and pull: You need contrast.
I’ve decided that Nuclear Game is the way to do it when you’re outgunned. There’s just no other way.
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BTW, this is one of the reasons we live.
It’s not just about sex, is it?
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Name-
ha,ha…so our backgrounds explain quite a bit, no? Thanks for sharing, I get where you’re coming from. My ex boyfriend parent’s are older than my grandparents. Him and I were almost a decade apart in age already, and his parents had him later in life and he always feared loosing them while growing up. They’re both still alive and kicking (in their 80’s) but I did witness him almost lose his dad and he spent his childhood with old parents and he hated it, so I do get it, like I said. My own folks are still in their 50’s and are somewhat wealthy now but it really was a financial struggle for us while I was growing up. I worked three times as hard for everything while growing up. I had to get good grades just so I could stay in the school I was at. But like I wrote in a post once, their ignorance and old school manner in raising me (my dominate/German father beat the shit out of my siblings and I–he was highly stressed due to the lack of finances at the time) has actually made me a better person. I plan on beating my kids if I have any. -just kidding.
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Further Update
Okay, so the usefulness of hard, push-pull unpredictable game (seduction) is apparent. Never be predictable. Even during sex, be unpredictable and keep a woman off her toes.
I just had a 20 minute talk with PCG. She apparently wants to introduce me to her friends. Wants, but I suspect needs.
I barely spoke for the entire 20 minutes. She wanted to reassure me that she’s not that kind of girl, and make sure I still respect her. She’s asking me, if I still respect her.
Hard game. I think this is going to be my new modus operandi.
Getting a girl to actually like you – romantically – and relate on this level. Not just picking her up and getting her into your pants.
So, back to the topic of this thread: The Relevance of Game. No matter what you want to do with a woman, Game is crucial.
To the feminist lurkers out there: How is this evil? To the beta apologizers: how does this disrespect women?
Get game.
On a personal note: the risk of getting powerfully attached – seriously – to a girl like this is so vast, so immeasurable, that I’m guessing maintaining hand is crucial to survival.
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Bhetti Doug: I’m thinking that was a compliment in chic’s mind, despite the way she phrased it.
Thank you bhetti for getting the joke 🙂
Doug1 to chic noir–
Trying to diss me, are you, because I sometimes (fairly rarely but also fairly recently more) debate Obsidian at his site and generally easily prevail, never mind the vote of his “almost totally unbiased and not subject to insurmountable bias by whte guys in disagreement) readership?
Projection much, I guess you post there under another name because I don’t see many comments from you over there.
I can’t believe you didn’t catch on. I was calling you Don Dapper of the R-world you fool. Looks like you’ve been drinking and commenting again.
Doug1 One higher than many is more like it,
That’s not as I remember your votes. Please go back in the archives to see for yourself. I’ve said something to you before about how you vote 2 points higher than most of the other guys here.
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@ Gorbachev,
First, congrats on not ‘blowing it’ with PCG Saturday night, and thanks for letting us know how it went.
Well-written, and I especially liked your closing observations (about relative values).
Second, I’ve been reading your comments with increasing avidity for the past several days, partly out of speculating as to how much your experiences/observations/outlook might be applicable to my own ‘dating’ prospects, given that I am not the archtypal 25 year old guy for whom Game might leverage the most bounty. I am now past way past forty (aware that other factors are critical too, but …).
So, I wonder if you wouldn’t mind disclosing your own age? If that’s a no go, I certainly understand & respect your decision.
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Gorby.
Thanks for the story. Most valuable field report on this site so far. I had been thinking that there is a trap involved in going too far on date #2, because it can trigger irrational remorse, saving it for #3 was definitely correct. By going as far as you did you neurally reinforced her tingles for you in a way that she will never forget, without tripping the Slut-O-Meter.
I think you have made more of an impression on this girl than any previous guy. Internalize that you are the best she’s had and your game will become more natural.
If you are planning to see this girl at the coffee shop before Wednesday I don’t think it’s a good idea; instead, for your only further contact, you could send her one text during her shift saying something like “wish I could get a [your usual coffee order] right about now”
On Wednesday (assuming that in your 20-minute conversation that date did not change) you are in a more “normal” situation, you’ve gained enough hand that you are no longer on a tightrope without a net. Keep the game hard, but you don’t have to push for even more hand too fast and risk looking like a jerk (you can only be enough of a jerk that she doesn’t consciously think “jerk”).
To the other spectators: what you are seeing here is a high-stakes example of the xsplat treatment, where the woman has much more sophistication than xsplat’s typical target.
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Well played, Gorbachev. I’m cheering for you. So many guys in your situation would have shagged her, but you went for the “safe sex”. Brilliant!
Just beware of the snowflake. While you were checking out her flat, did you note any signs of over the top materialism?
A beautiful woman who is low maintenance and resourceful is a rare prize. Hoes however, are plentiful among the pretty. Know what you’re dealing with, and play accordingly. Hoes are like drugs. A successful dealer can’t also be a user.
That doesn’t mean don’t shag her. Just don’t try to convert her or save her or whatever. Be the pimp she brings her money to. They’re excellent lays and great status validators, but not good wives or girlfriends. If you want to keep her on lock, you have to be giving her something that a guy with more money can’t: discipline.
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@Nicole
Well played, Gorbachev. I’m cheering for you. So many guys in your situation would have shagged her, but you went for the “safe sex”. Brilliant!
Just beware of the snowflake. While you were checking out her flat, did you note any signs of over the top materialism?
A beautiful woman who is low maintenance and resourceful is a rare prize. Hoes however, are plentiful among the pretty. Know what you’re dealing with, and play accordingly. Hoes are like drugs. A successful dealer can’t also be a user.
I’ve seen. I tried to notice. But there was only simple adornment; a good number of books; never got to look into her wardrobe. Furniture was OK but not great. Extremely clean. Tidy; to the point of anal-retentiveness. Bathroom was spotless.
That doesn’t mean don’t shag her. Just don’t try to convert her or save her or whatever. Be the pimp she brings her money to. They’re excellent lays and great status validators, but not good wives or girlfriends. If you want to keep her on lock, you have to be giving her something that a guy with more money can’t: discipline.
I think that last is good advice to anyone anyway.
That’ll be my approach.
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@lazy guy
@ Gorbachev,
Second, I’ve been reading your comments with increasing avidity for the past several days, partly out of speculating as to how much your experiences/observations/outlook might be applicable to my own ‘dating’ prospects, given that I am not the archtypal 25 year old guy for whom Game might leverage the most bounty. I am now past way past forty (aware that other factors are critical too, but …).
So, I wonder if you wouldn’t mind disclosing your own age? If that’s a no go, I certainly understand & respect your decision.
How about this: I was married at 26 and stayed that way for ca. 4 years. You can read through what I write and work it out from that.
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@Polymath
Thanks for the story. Most valuable field report on this site so far.
There have been many better, for sure.
I had been thinking that there is a trap involved in going too far on date #2, because it can trigger irrational remorse,
Buyer’s remorse is real.
saving it for #3 was definitely correct. By going as far as you did you neurally reinforced her tingles for you in a way that she will never forget, without tripping the Slut-O-Meter.
It wasn’t so neutral. But I was careful.
If you are planning to see this girl at the coffee shop before Wednesday I don’t think it’s a good idea; instead, for your only further contact, you could send her one text during her shift saying something like “wish I could get a [your usual coffee order] right about now”
Actually, I’m hoping she’ll just come over on Wednesday. I plan to be “busy” before then.
Keep the game hard, but you don’t have to push for even more hand too fast and risk looking like a jerk (you can only be enough of a jerk that she doesn’t consciously think “jerk”).
Note: In this sort of situation, you need to maintain hand. But not be a jerk, of course.
But now she expects strength and decisiveness.
To the other spectators: what you are seeing here is a high-stakes example of the xsplat treatment, where the woman has much more sophistication than xsplat’s typical target.
High stakes, everything gets sharper. In every way.
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Gorbachev, the minimal decoration but lots of books is a good sign of not being a hoe. Bookishness is a sign of high paternal involvement or supervision of upbringing. It’s not 100%, but the chances are that it came from a male role model encouraging this. Further evidence is that from the simple furniture, minimal decoration, and cleanliness, she seems to be a Spartan type. She will appreciate strength and decisiveness. So along with, “Well played,” I’ll say, “Good eye.”
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@Nicole
Gorbachev, the minimal decoration but lots of books is a good sign of not being a hoe. Bookishness is a sign of high paternal involvement or supervision of upbringing. It’s not 100%, but the chances are that it came from a male role model encouraging this. Further evidence is that from the simple furniture, minimal decoration, and cleanliness, she seems to be a Spartan type. She will appreciate strength and decisiveness. So along with, “Well played,” I’ll say, “Good eye.”
I think I was right in my initial assessment: She’s from a reserved social class similar to the French elite; she was raised strictly, by extremely well-educated parents. She’s super hot, but not super slutty.
— shows how assumptions can fuck you up. Tailor.
I also found out that her parents had a lot of cash but lost it all (not clear how). She’s thoroughly impressed by education and erudition and less by cash.
But she likes glamour (like all hot chicks), and dresses not to impress, but to stun and awe.
Her home is in another city; her parents’ place. I’m guessing she’s on an Independence kick right now.
She also hasn’t had a BF in 5 months. That she did tell me.
Soon, I’ll have to Bring It. I have a powerful Beta urge not to tool her. Serious halo effect.
If you get attached to this kind of woman, if I’m right, the effect of her being gone could be brutal. A man would have to be a misogynistic bastard who hated women not to be affected.
Interesting. All the more reason to maintain Hand at all times.
Actually, you know, there’s no reason to ever lose Hand. Just drives it home.
If I do anything else radical over the course of this I’ll sum it up.
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Gorby,
You read too fast. I wrote “neurally reinforced” not “neutrally reinforced”.
I meant this 100% literally. Emotion burns memories in; the arousal she exhibited showed a receptiveness to reprogramming, so you did the right thing in going as far as you did; her strong response to your efforts indicates that her neuronal pathways connecting you to sexual arousal were positively reinforced. It will be that much easier to get her going next time.
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@Polymath
I meant this 100% literally. Emotion burns memories in; the arousal she exhibited showed a receptiveness to reprogramming, so you did the right thing in going as far as you did; her strong response to your efforts indicates that her neuronal pathways connecting you to sexual arousal were positively reinforced. It will be that much easier to get her going next time.
I fully intend to keep this extremely sexual/sensual; I want to burn myself into her memory. So far, I think I’ve managed it
What strikes me is that, if you’re not a cold bastard, this works two ways. Despite that fact that I’m using game, and a strategy, this can affect me emotionally as much as her. It’s started to. I have to physically resist the urge to call her.
She called tonight again, and left a “have a good night” message; that stunned me. It was everything I could do not to pick up or call her right back.
The only difference is that I’m conscious of it. She’s actually very sweet; if she were less hot, she would be no less datable, really. of course the hotness makes it excruciating.
But this should show all men: The Relevance of Game. I could *never*, *ever* have gotten this close to this woman, this fast, and engineered a potential relationship, without game. It would have been utterly impossible. I would never have believed it, or held out hope. Even now it’s hard.
Everyone lurking and reading and wondering about the relevance of game has to note this. Feminists who make snide comments and judgments about game should notice.
Also, I’m more experienced, but look at how rattling dating a truly hot woman, with character, can frazzle a guy who’s done this a lot.
Without game, none of this, at any stage, would have been possible. And seduction can have many purposes.
And for those who say you can’t learn to be Alpha: As far as she’s concerned, I’m this:
– Interesting (I could be anyway) – but game gives her the chance to get close to me to see how interesting I am. Doesn’t mean I’ll stop gaming her; I want her to want to fuck me all the time. Not just get comfortable with me.
– A Sexual interest – so I’m not just a Friend. Allows scope for real intimacy and human contact.
– Forceful and Manly (even if I emote: it makes my emotional connections much more valuable)
– Competent at dealing with her emotions (so far)
– I imagine that as time goes on, I’ll have to be the same in any kind of relationship I try to generate with her.
All of this is just how a man should be with a woman.
Notice how thoughtful I have to be to spend time with her. I have to think about how she’ll respond. I have to consider the longer-term implications of what I do. I have to literally manage her emotions when it comes to me.
Will she appreciate it?
She seems to be responding genuinely to me.
Is it fake?
What’s the real me? This is the real me, as well as anything else. I’ve learned how to do it.
Is it Alpha? Parts of it.
Is it fake because I have to try?
You have to learn how to ski. Why not to relate to women?
And incidentally: If I were just following the advice to “Be Myself”, there’s no way this woman would have ever bothered to get to know me.
No relationship or communication at all.
So – all good.
Game. Learn Game.
It’s only evil if you’re cheating someone. But she’s actually getting me. I’m just creating the conditions (assuming I don’t fuck it up) for her to be able to appreciate me.
Of course, I may have to consider a few, … external issues that might impinge if it continues for any length of time, which at the current time I’m gunning for.
Any guy who does this much has to think of management. I get the distinct impression that, er, polygamy with this type of woman will go over very badly. She won’t tolerate it. I’ll bet.
Say I succeed:
If I can generate a lowered set of expectations in addition to a relationship, then that will be a real test of how well I can manage game in this situation.
But I do suspect that this fish will be hard to keep without maintaining serious hand at all times.
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G,
Nicole is right, and this is consistent with your observation that PCG is a Daddy’s girl. She is also enjoying following your lead — she really wants you to be dominant, consciously not just unconsciously. She has probably been too intimidatingly hot to get this from previous boyfriends (you are lucky she did not run into a super alpha who would have done this).
Don’t ask her anything or give her any choices to make (even in a restaurant, say “the XXX they make here is very good” and she will order it). She is rediscovering her inner little-girl, and you should enable this by always leading (without letting the Daddy comparison reach her forebrain).
A recommendation to consider, though only if you feel enough confidence to be sure you can maintain the frame: at the right moment (you will have to judge when this is; likely candidates are the minute she arrives Wednesday, or the minute you return after going out, or the minute she indicates she wants to make out) you should use the Daniel Day-Lewis technique from the movie “The Unbearable Lightness of Being”. (Hint: he was a doctor, and he would make a statement to his date that was identical to what he would ask his patients to do when he was ready to examine them in his office, using the same expects-to-be-unquestioningly-obeyed tone.)
When the time is ripe, this will not only work, it will crystallize the dynamics between you in the optimal way (it might actually be worth waiting longer in order to do it this way).
This is the way xsplat always operates, but it is only good for a certain type of girl; however, indications are that you have that type of girl, so that this is what she wants.
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@Gorby Great post, good learnings here…
I just wanted to comment on one point:
“”We stay for a while, and then go back. At about 9:00, I drop her off, and say, sorry for the short night. I didn’t know you had to look after a dog. (FUCK, why am I apologizing, damn, it’s so easy to slip up).
She smiles and says no need to apologize. She liked my friends. I work with interesting people, she says.””
There was a post a week ago on chivarly.
I think this is an example where you can go beta if you’ve already established your alpha credentials
It’s a neg actually: “I didn’t know you had to look after a dog…”—she’d have to qualify herself after that.
I’m sure the dog was a ruse in case things went badly…she could bail and…blame it on the dog.
Great passing of the shit test on the coy “I’d ask you in….”
“Who says I’d want to?”—excellent. ABG–Always be gaming.
Not shagging her…not sure about that.
But I’m more interested in her reaction.
She texted several times the next day. Her mind is working overtime…
“”
I get this series of text messages. I haven’t responded yet.
“I never do that.”
“You’re the sweetest gentleman. Dangerous.”
“What are you doing tomorrow?”
Then:
“Call me”””
Her emotions are running wild. She wants to see you…but she’s throwing up the Anti-Slut Device….
This is often where it goes wrong for me….I get that far…have a great day 2 or f-close…then get this string of ASD-inspired nonsense. It goes south. Any thoughts on how to avoid this?
“Dangerous”….anyone who doubts what women really want needs to read this several times. Her own fantasies are fueling her attraction.
From a learning perspective…look at this from the other side. If yuo had been a “nice guy”…she would have left you at the door….and that would have been it….
I think you play it cool. Don’t appear needy. Keep that cocky-Daniel Craig persona “Who says I’d come up…?” and it’s on.
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DOMINATION GAME
@Polymath
Nicole is right, and this is consistent with your observation that PCG is a Daddy’s girl. She is also enjoying following your lead — she really wants you to be dominant, consciously not just unconsciously. She has probably been too intimidatingly hot to get this from previous boyfriends (you are lucky she did not run into a super alpha who would have done this).
She did tell me many men find her unapproachable; and a lot of guys are jerks. She told me early on that she was picky about who she hangs out with or keeps as friends. I sensed that social reserve. I have to play into it.
She is rediscovering her inner little-girl, and you should enable this by always leading (without letting the Daddy comparison reach her forebrain).
Domination Game (^tm) and Chivalry
I’ve already planned how I can do this using my new Applied Method of Absolute Domination Game (^tm).
I’m going to lead like we’re dancing. All the time.
The best reason? Because sometimes I can choose not to, for powerful contrast, and my not-leading will give me even more control.
At select moments, I can look at her and directly ask, “What do you think/want to do/feel?”
With a commanding look. Like a spotlight. More variety.
That way: I get *alpha* points for chivalry for asking her, instead of getting partially beta’ed, which you can always get if you want.
I’m not asking for her opinion: I’m gently commanding it.
I’m also *qualifying* her. “Give me your opinion.” She has to step up. In a fun way, but it’s the attitude.
Domination, even when you’re asking. When she gives me her opinion, it’s also a form of submission. I’m going to guess it will be a form of psychological binding, too. I’ll win on every side: Chivalry; Respect; Alpha; Control.
For Example:
If I get LMR, this is how I’m going to deal with it.
I can say, for example, with a look, a pause, precisely controlled situation, after I withdraw a bit, and before the LMR has time to sink in, “Do you want to make love to me?”
Asked right, I think, … again, it’s extremely bold. Goes with what I’ve been doing. And it forces her to step up. Or step down. And if she likes me, she’ll be forced to
1) Step up, and submit to her own desires
* This will crush her Slut Meter to a quivering pulp. I suspect crazy hard sex will ensue. The kind that means total absorption. For both of us.
2) In submitting to herself, though it seems like she’s taking control, in stepping into the situation voluntarily and aggressively, she’ll be absolutely submitting to me.
3) It will mean, I’ll bet, that I’ll be able to arouse her in future with little more than looks, tone of voice or touch. That’s the best way.
For long-term relationship hand, in everything, I need to utterly dominate her.
Call it, … Chivalrous Domination game.
I caught an old episode of Star Trek on TV the other night. Ricardo Montalban as a hugely charismatic bad guy (damn, did he have attitude, holy shit).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-dbCc237HM
TIME INDEX: 8:50+
She’s wavering, torn between loyalty and desire. He says, “Bah. Go or stay, You decide. But Choose.” Something like that. I need a lighter form of that. Hard to describe, I wasn’t clear on the social dynamics or the relationship to the plot, but the scene was good. A mild form of it.
I’ve had to rethink everything to make sure it all has its intended effect; Controlling this super hot woman’s sexuality and making her my own. Nothing less is enough.
The result: I suspect she will completely own me, as well. But as much as she does, I must maintain just enough hand to have control. Because I suspect she likes this.
What amazes me: She’s slightly resistant, but she obviously wants to be dominated. Competently.
you should use the Daniel Day-Lewis technique from the movie “The Unbearable Lightness of Being”. (Hint: he was a doctor, and he would make a statement to his date that was identical to what he would ask his patients to do when he was ready to examine them in his office, using the same expects-to-be-unquestioningly-obeyed tone.)
I’m going to use this whenever some decision comes up.
I did this about Wednesday: I said, “Come to my place. We can go dancing if we want to.” Meaning: I’m not saying we’re going to make out; I’m giving her slut meter a way out; I’m also saying the decision is ours. And it was in the form of a statement, a command. But non-committal.
I thought that was good.
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@Walawala
Her emotions are running wild. She wants to see you…but she’s throwing up the Anti-Slut Device….
I have her on the run, so to speak; she’s becoming attached and is surprised at her response. Also, she knows I really like her, but I get the impression: While she likes me (as a person), I think she doesn’t really understand why she’s attracted to me.
The power of game.
This is often where it goes wrong for me….I get that far…have a great day 2 or f-close…then get this string of ASD-inspired nonsense. It goes south. Any thoughts on how to avoid this?
I know this. I’ve been there many times. This is why, this time, I avoided the ASD and didn’t go to bed with her, but kept it extremely hot – I walked the line, and pushed it deep, but didn’t go over it.
Extremely romantic. Like a romance novel hero. When I do step over, it’ll be a mad rush of I Can’t Resist Her, which will be absolutely fucking true, incidentally, this is also driving me insane.
And this will tingle us both like crazy. It’ll play into everything.
A girl like this: If you’re going to game, game right.
“Dangerous”….anyone who doubts what women really want needs to read this several times. Her own fantasies are fueling her attraction.
It’s helping reinforce frame, too. It’s amazing to watch it in me, after so much time gaming women. It’s fresh and new.
From a learning perspective…look at this from the other side. If yuo had been a “nice guy”…she would have left you at the door….and that would have been it….
Absolutely. See how Game is relevant.
Some women will say: It’s fake. Really? You think “natural” seduction is any more real? Or passion?
Men who say “That’s not Alpha”. I ask you this: Despite my inner turmoil, what’s not alpha about this?
You can learn to be Alpha.
For this woman, I’ll be as Alpha as needed and I’ll think as hard as necessary and I’ll game as hard as required.
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Gorbachev, that was amazing! I jumped up and down saying ‘yes!’ on seeing the texts.
Reread it and replayed it in my head too. Love your internal narrative. You were on fire.
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Regarding your “external issues”:
This is a serious pitfall. You don’t have to break anything off with anyone else, but you should definitely not see anyone else until the situation with PCG has resolved further. If she asks you about other girls, you can be perfectly truthful in saying “I’ve dated other girls recently”. She has no reason to expect you to dump them yet, but you are dead meat if you see another girl after she has given it up to you, and she finds out.
Assuming PCG decides you are her BF, there will come a time when she expresses an explicit wish for you not to see anyone else (you will be able to deflect the subject, for a while, but not indefinitely). Before this point you need to have asked yourself whether
1) you eventually want to be monogamous [if you want kids the answer should be yes], and
2) whether you think you could do better than PCG [seems like no reason to expect that from what you’ve said so far].
Then your options are as follows:
a) 1 Yes 2 Yes : I think this is unlikely, but in this case you can be perfectly truthful and say something to the effect of “I’ve been burned before, I would have to be absolutely certain you are the one I want to spend the rest of my life with before I would agree to exclusivity”. When the right Game move is perfect honesty it is incredibly powerful because of the conviction you can project. This will make her work super hard to qualify herself further, while you remain uncommitted.
b) 1 Yes 2 No: Game suggests the same move as above, but it is much riskier because you don’t want to lose her and you don’t want to keep her but lose hand by having to give in if she says “drop them if you want to keep me”. That kind of ultimatum must be avoided. Therefore you proceed as above only if you’re sure she’s going to accept that. Otherwise, respond to her expressed wish that you not see anyone else simply by saying “right now I’m interested in you, not anyone else” — that will keep her satisfied without making any commitment, avoiding the negative outcome (ultimatum) but also forgoing the positive one (she dedicates herself to qualifying herself further for you without demanding you stop seeing others). Then follow up by keeping the other activities to a minimum while seeing how deeply you can get her to fall for you.
c) 1 No 2 Yes: In this case you want to keep her as long as you can without making a commitment, and you have to deal with the logistics of harem management. You could again say “right now I’m interested in you, not anyone else” but it would be a deception because you would be continuing to pursue others. Right now you may be too smitten with her to be able to pull off this kind of manipulation; proceed at your own risk.
d) 1 No 2 No: This is the most dangerous situation because you really couldn’t deal with losing her. You should again say “right now I’m interested in you, not anyone else”, and then really do keep other activities to a minimum. The difference from case b) is that you would be sacrificing other girls for purely practical short-term reasons, rather than because you thought it might lead to a permanent commitment.
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I have a tactical question. Is it alpha or beta to send a chick you’re gaming a photo of us two taken at a party? In photo, I look cool, she’s all smiling and sexy.
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Extracurricular activities, ayeesh, …
@Polymath
This is a serious pitfall.
Very thorough. I can sift through it fast, though.
I’m usually honest; it’s easy enough.
You don’t have to break anything off with anyone else, but you should definitely not see anyone else until the situation with PCG has resolved further.
Okay. Yessssss. Hm. That could be interesting. Indeed.
If she asks you about other girls, you can be perfectly truthful in saying “I’ve dated other girls recently”. She has no reason to expect you to dump them yet, but you are dead meat if you see another girl after she has given it up to you, and she finds out.
She’s asked several probing questions which I’ve dodged. Quite effectively. But she has clearly assumed that I’m not otherwise involved. And you’re right.
I would be dead meat. I wouldn’t see her dust.
Assuming PCG decides you are her BF, there will come a time when she expresses an explicit wish for you not to see anyone else (you will be able to deflect the subject, for a while, but not indefinitely). Before this point you need to have asked yourself whether
1) you eventually want to be monogamous [if you want kids the answer should be yes], and
I can’t answer that now. Really. Who could. With her, it’s very tempting to let the thought cross my mind.
2) whether you think you could do better than PCG [seems like no reason to expect that from what you’ve said so far].
Answer: Not a chance. None whatsoever. Scary hot 9 who’s smart, not slutty and charming? Please.
(Though I would have said the same thing 3 months ago about PCG).
Then your options are as follows:
a) 1 Yes 2 Yes : I think this is unlikely,
Yes. Now. But I can keep an open mind. I always do.
in this case you can be perfectly truthful and say something to the effect of “I’ve been burned before, I would have to be absolutely certain you are the one I want to spend the rest of my life with before I would agree to exclusivity”.
That’s interesting. When I’ve got heavy hand, I can play this; when I don’t, it’s not possible; exclusivity is usually assumed.
I’m going to go out on a very sure limb and say this: If I’m seeing anyone else, she’s not going to hang around. I could play the complicated almost ex-relationship game and generate some drama (possibly even useful for game – but I’ve found it’s ultimately poisonous and self-defeating).
No, I suspect she’ll bolt. I will likely have some work to do.
When the right Game move is perfect honesty it is incredibly powerful because of the conviction you can project. This will make her work super hard to qualify herself further, while you remain uncommitted.
I was planning something.
I’ll choose an opportune moment and say, I have a situation I’ve resolved. I’ll be mysterious about it and follow it with intense physical affection; that will answer the questions. And being settled in. If it gets to that. It’s playable.
b) 1 Yes 2 No: Game suggests the same move as above, but it is much riskier because you don’t want to lose her and you don’t want to keep her but lose hand by having to give in if she says “drop them if you want to keep me”.
This is what will happen. Better to drop extracurricular activities first. Then I’d lose hand. I can’t afford it. At all.
Then follow up by keeping the other activities to a minimum while seeing how deeply you can get her to fall for you.
This has to be the goal.
Fuck. You know, there’s nothing like successfully gaming an amazing woman to show up how messy your activities make your life.
I have to be careful. Removing myself from complications without closing doors is easy enough; but PCG will not easily tolerate any diversions.
I wonder if Roissy would post something about harem management. And the dangerous virtues of honesty.
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Gorbachev, I need to print out to read your full story. Sounds INTENSE. I am cheering you on, buddy. There is nothing in the world that satisfies like true achievement.
Walawala, I am no expert but I think it depends what stage you are in. If you are still in the Attraction phase, then no. If you are already in deep Comfort phase, then yes.
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@walawala
I have a tactical question. Is it alpha or beta to send a chick you’re gaming a photo of us two taken at a party? In photo, I look cool, she’s all smiling and sexy.
Unbidden, it’s beta. It smacks of neediness or making some point. Bad scene.
If she asks for it, pretend to demur, then send it only after longer than should be necessary. Just send it with an almost flippant note.
Mention the picture next time you see her. “Got a good picture of us”. Never offer it to her.
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@Rivelino
Gorbachev, I need to print out to read your full story. Sounds INTENSE. I am cheering you on, buddy. There is nothing in the world that satisfies like true achievement.
I’ve never had to game this hard this consistently. And be this creative.
Walawala, I am no expert but I think it depends what stage you are in. If you are still in the Attraction phase, then no. If you are already in deep Comfort phase, then yes.
I suspect I won’t be able to avoid monogamy or some sort of assumption thereof for very long at all. I can avoid the subject, but that’ll just be for extra tingles. She’s going to lose respect for me hard if I touch another woman after I fuck her. Which I plan to do.
I think I’ll be able to pull a week’s grace period. I can use it as an unstated “cleaning up other issues” period. But she’s going to expect to be a focus more or less immediately.
I might be wrong, but I don’t think so.
*Unless* I can up the domination. I’m going to play this dominate game as hard as possible. Daddy issues indeed.
I might be able to see how far I can take that. I’ll have to combine it with serious intmacy.
Of course, this bites both ways.
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walawala,
I agree with Rivelino. The only way you can show her that photo without reducing your Alpha cred is to use it as a prop in some way. For example, you could try Gorbachev’s move, email her next time you ask her for a date and attach the pic saying “wear this”.
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G,
OK, it’s clear you’ve got to go on hiatus with your other options for a while. Until you’ve really got PCG in hand, the risks far outweigh the benefits. Then with PCG, you can say you’ve resolved your other situations, without making any official commitment of exclusivity.
More immediately, I like your LMR response. There are several ways to deal with LMR (push through it hard, pull away completely and walk out, pose an explicit question as you plan to do) — the only really bad move is to stop without changing the frame.
But that line “Do you want to make love to me?” is useful for more than overcoming LMR. What is brilliant about it is that it takes advantage of confusion between desire and intention.
“Do you want to try this new restaurant” is the same things as “Shall we go to this new restaurant”. But “Do you *want* to make love to me” is not the same as “Will you make love to me?” — she knows she wants to but the “Yes” to that question makes it much harder to apply the distinction that there is something she wants to do but still will not to do for other reasons. Women are not usually logical enough to think “here is a reason to do X and here is a reason not to, which should prevail?” — especially in this case where the analysis of her desires invoked by the question moves the frame to emotion instead of logic.
This means that you can also use that question, worded precisely as you put it, long before the LMR stage. It can even occur during a conversation in a public place, if she has just admitted any kind of strong desire for you, and can be asked as a purely informational query, and it will still be effective.
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Walawala, thinking about your situation more, you definitely cannot just show her the picture without any preface or tension. I have been listening to lovedrop’s cds, and one thing he really advises is a “tension plotline”.
You gotta keep her hanging on your every word. You gotta push-pull. Always tease her. Never seem try-hard.
One example he gives is, telling a girl (after establishing attraction; in other words, when you are in A3):
There are three things I like about you (you are qualifying her): 1. something 2. something 3. I can’t tell you or you might stop doing it.
He says this works like crazy. The girl is dying to know what it is about her that you like.
Somehow this reminds me of your pic situation. You could *mention* a pic of you two together, and say that you look fantastic, but she only looks so-so. Then add, maybe I’ll show it to you one day.
This is the opposite of try-hard, trying to build rapport. This is take it or leave it, I really don’t care about you type vibing which they love. They love the challenge.
Or you could say, I look amazing in the pic, as always, you look decently good … except for your hairstyle just isn’t working in that pic…. something critical but attention to detail.
I have been busy at work so have not had much field test experience, but I know at the office with the cute executive assistants, that sort of aloof criticism/playful dominance really works. They eat it up.
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@Gorby
“Mention the picture next time you see her. “Got a good picture of us”. Never offer it to her.”
I get this one. This is good. Good conversation starter without making any real effort.
@Rivelino
“Or you could say, I look amazing in the pic, as always, you look decently good … except for your hairstyle just isn’t working in that pic…. something critical but attention to detail.”
This is funny too… But your question about A1 or C1 gives me pause to consider. I think it’s too early.
It’s a good reality check.
I normally just post all my party photos on my FB page and let whoever wants to see them, check them out. Sometimes girls who are in them tag themselves or write some comment.
On reflection, sending a photo seems beta…posting it with a series of other photos and having them comment seems more natural. It’s what I would normally do and did in this situation.
This same girl does some modeling. i think she gets photos all the time. Sending one could be try-hard.
On this night, she was wearing some kind of strange white pants with a bizarre kitten head–like a Hello Kitty pattern embossed on the back pocket, they made her ass look good, but begged a neg. Our conversation went like this:
Me: Interesting pattern on those jeans…reminds me of a pair of pyjamas I had when I was a kid. I need a picture of those….
Her: Looks surprised….
Me: I got my degree in photography…
Her: Oh?
Me: There’s a lot you don’t know about me..
Her: So?
Me: So if I took a picture of those jeans, I could make them look good.
Her: Laughs….
Later while a bunch of us were having drinks and taking pictures, she came by and I snapped a few of us. She dug it.
She said I was cool.
I posted the photos along with a series from that night.
Proactively sending photo…yah, it’s a bit try-hard in this case.
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Walawala,
OK, dude, didn’t realize you had a Facebook page. Of course it’s OK to put the pic on your FB page as long as you don’t call particular attention to it by tagging etc. But in general stay away from the whole Facebook culture — use it only to maintain contacts, not to express yourself. (If you are a photographer for real you want your own website to show your stuff, not a Facebook page).
Very good work with the negging on the Hello Kitty jeans. I would have made a joke about how HK really belongs on a front pocket not a back pocket, but “If I took a picture of those jeans, I could make them look good” is much better.
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@Polymath
“OK, dude, didn’t realize you had a Facebook page. Of course it’s OK to put the pic on your FB page as long as you don’t call particular attention to it by tagging etc.”
Yes…do the most natural thing you would do is the default move.
Any other move would have to be calculated to raise value or look cool. Rivelino’s comment about knowing what stage of MM you’re at is vital.
What would be funny or charming in Comfort might be try-hard in Attraction.
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Guys —
I am here at work after hours, with access to free printing, and I wanted to read all the great comments here.
So I printed this thread out and it is 365 pages long.
I am not even joking. I took a picture.
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@Rivelino,
Go to “What Did I Do Wrong” for more updates on this gaming tale.
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Also, wanted to say, I bought the Mystery 13 CD audio set (the one done by Lovedrop), and it is ***excellent***.
I think Lovedrop is utterly fantastic. This guy knows his shit. I want to transcribe the entire thing.
He goes from the basics of inner game, to breaking down attraction and comfort, that’s the CD I am on now.
I listen to it in my car, and it is really, really helping me.
I strongly recommend it. He is changing the way I think, not only when I talk to girls, but when I talk to everybody. Basically, it is helping me improve everything about me when it comes to interpersonal dynamics.
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Hey Gorbachev, I printed that thread too. That’s an additional 69 pages. This is unbelievable.
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I am just reading the most recent posts on screen, about the Hello Kitty girl, and yeah, that is what Lovedrop has taught me, the importance of always maintaining higher value than your target.
To me, it’s kind of a pain in the ass, always having to put on this facade of being “Mr. Cool” (I call him blowhard), making jokes, teasing girls, making sure that I have the upper hand (I am talking about my situation at work); I am used to “leveling”, being genuine, honest, warm, friendly, kind — but all that nice guy shit doesn’t work for crap.
This blowhard stuff really works. The girls eat it up. Even my female bosses eat it up. Or rather, *especially* my female bosses.
And you gotta work up the attraction phase big time. You gotta hammer it home — I AM HIGHER VALUE THAN YOU.
After you get enough IOIs, you still gotta then qualify her, as if you are beginning to like her, but not b/c she is hot, but b/c you are getting to know her as a person. You can’t just immediately return her interest/attraction. Then she will subconsciously/emotionally realize that she was being fooled, that in fact you are a desperate guy just like all the others, and she will disappear on your ass. She will avoid you.
Only after you have reached a high level of attraction from her, can you begin the comfort phase. That is what I excel at. I am good at making people feel comfortable, I am one of those “great listener” type of guys. So that part comes relatively easily for me.
But the attraction phase is hard. Gotta be somewhat of a jerk. Gotta be a high value guy. Gotta be the ghost and the flame. Gotta be the prize.
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@rivelino,
More coming. I’ll post it for you so you can follow.
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@sdaedalus
Gorbachev
I am delighted. I didn’t want to say it before, in case it might put you off your Game, but she sounds like a lovely girl. Well done. Enjoy yourselves. There is nothing like the bliss of falling in love.
Sdaedalus,
You seem to have hit on something, something that is beginning to sink in. It’s that word, four letters, and it doesn’t begin with F.
Risk Of Affection
When you invest a lot in gaming a girl, because, well, she’s just so scorching hot you have no idea what business you have even trying, and then you get beyond the hot thing and find out – wow, there’s a huge amount of character in there, and a minimum of vapidity (though, indeed, a large collection of shoes and accessories), and she’s – shockingly – sweet and charming, as well, and if not actually modest, then not hyper-inflated, …
Then you find something happening.
I’ve done this for years. I have relatively considerable experience with women, STRS and LTRS and 2-4NSs, etc., in varying environments and a few continents, and yet –
I find myself uncomfortably exhilaratingly in the position of doing exactly what Sdaedalus suggests.
Falling in love.
Or at least, severe lust, definite infatuation and absolutely unmistaken fascination.
And what’s more: this has all been a result of game. I’m going to say this about men:
If a man has a soul left, and he games a girl hard and invests in it emotionally, then: he risks falling in love, long-term. Or something approximating it.
@lazy guy
Hey Gorbachev,
Congrats and ‘Good on ya’.
Now don’t be shy about sharing particulars, for those of us who go through periods of preferring to live vicariously…
Seriously, that’s great news bud.
Lazy guy,
Here’s my field report.
I’ve never gamed like this before: I’ve had to use high-energy, multi-pronged hard game, something I’m calling Domination Game. It’s high-intensity and I’ve never even imagined being able to be successful doing this.
If I an do this, frankly, anyone can do this.
Gaming on Edge: Multiple Approaches
Note: I have no idea about other men she’s seeing. Frankly, I don’t care right now; actually, I’ve subtly put it out that it’s not to be discussed, but is to be sorted out:
Her: “Are you seeing anyone else right now?” (She knows I’m divorced, and suspects I’m popular, given that she’s into me, I guess: If she’s into me, I must be great, right?).
Me: It’s complicated.
(hahaha – I actually said this. It was all for you people.)
Her: Complicated?
Me: I didn’t expect to meet you. (stare into her eyes, shake head)
Her: We should talk about it.
GAME: I’m thinking: I need time, and I want to use this to my advantage in several ways.
Me: Take some time. Tell me when you can.
(puts pressure back on her: redirect).
Wednesday Night
Went as planned. Almost no communication. Afternoon, text:
Me: Come at 8:30
Delay: 30 s
Her: I’ll bring my shoes.
Delay: 20 min
Me: Wear white.
(again: why not?)
Okay.
She shows up at 8:45, smiling and comes in. I kiss her, without delay, intensely; then break away and direct her to sit down (more Command Game).
She settles onto the sofa.
She’s wearing a tightly-fitting, but filmy white dress; it’s hot out. She wanders through the condo, checking it out. We’re looking at each other sidelong the entire time. Casual glances. Little lingering stares.
We’re talking about food, and what we can make, and when to leave for the Latin club, …
I let our eyes meet, as we’re discussing it, and then I reached over, kissed her, …
And I decided: Nuclear game.
She’s not here to go out dancing. We both know it’s a pretext.
I push her onto the sofa, and proceed to insistently but without force make out with her for a hundred thousand years; after she’s in a desperately exhausted orgasmic haze (and I’m no longer capable of control), I stop, look her in the eyes, and say, …
“Do you want me to make love to you?”
There’s a pause; she looks at me, a question passes over her eyes, I wonder again if this is a good idea. She looks like she’s thinking, … why is he asking me (is my game off?), what should I do, and then there’s a kind of joyful desperate something in her eyes, and she kisses me.
I have never so totally controlled a woman before. She just gave herself to me, utterly.
Any guy who has not done this or experienced this has not lived. Period.
TIME ARRIVES
What ensues is the most intense, desperate lovemaking/sex/fucking/grinding I have done in I don’t remember when.
I’ve never had such a gorgeous woman. And she’s working her way into me.
Needless to say, it lasted about 9 hours. Hard; sexy; gentle; romantic; wild; pounding; loud; quiet; satisfying; calm. Controlled, wild abandon. It was unbelievable.
* Notes: She later says that no man – in her lifetime – has been like this with her. It’s not comparable.
I say nothing, but the same is true for me. The tension, my planning, my desperate desire: I don’t know how to deal with it.
The importance of maintaining hand is absolute.
Notes
– Domination Game works for sex, as well. It makes women absolutely uncontrollable. In sex, give them the Romantic Hero from the romance novel who takes her without question. I mean, use it properly – but be sure. Read her well and give her what she wants without her asking. But it means when you fuck her, you have to give it to her like a man who knows exactly what to do: generous on his terms, and ravish her without remorse or relenting.
– Everything delivered in the heat of orgasm is a hundred times more powerful than otherwise. Any game played then hits straight to her hindbrain: You own her. She has no defences. Deliver it hard.
– Make the most of the time when she’s wrapped around you. Bring her in close; if you share your emotions with her, you gain what all her ONSs and lovers don’t give her: You get her soul.
– Objections should never be dealt with using words at that point. ALWAYS fall back on MORE SEX. Either your unbridled and uncontrolled lust or her explosive absorption. Either way
“What does that mean, …” = Fuck her harder and longer. Devour her for hours. Absorb her. Feel her nervous system. Everything is answered by screaming orgasms. Tolerate no objection. She has a problem = answer with orgasms.
By morning, I can safely say: I had stamped my name on her with a brand. But, alas, she was doing the same thing to me.
So I played nuclear sex, along with nuclear game. She had doe-like eyes, long sighs with languorous caresses and long stares.
Morning:
I sleep for an hour, then get up early to go to the loo.
I make food (eggs benedict, fresh OJ, sliced fruit). No words, didn’t ask her. It’s not beta: I want to eat, I bring food, expect her to eat.
I bring it in and present it. Not a request, just a statement: Eat. Accept this from me.
We eat, then have about 3 more hours of sex. I can’t get enough of her. We lay in bed talking like we’ve known each other forever. Lots of touching.
BTW, this is not all game. I have to concentrate. I am utterly lost by this point.
THE ISSUE: DEALING WITH OTHER GUYS
Then a subject comes up. I suspect there’s another guy (a floater, some dude, whatever. I frankly don’t care).
She says: “We need to talk about something.”
Me: “I think I know what you mean.”
Pause.
She’s going to tell me about some complication, some guy. I should take this as an opportunity; I can keep it nebulous, let her have complications, so I can keep mine. But I don’t want competition with this woman: Long-term, I can’t afford it, which I know, and I want to own her.
I’m not going to get into a contest with other men (which I might lose, long-term, if I let them hang around), and I don’t want to share her. At all.
Me: “Don’t tell me. It’s O.K.”
Silence.
More nuclear game. I have to use the same dynamic.
I’ve spent all night fucking her stupid. No man has ever been like this with her. I need to take maximum advantage of this state.
I look at her, straight in the eye. I say,
Me: ‘Do something about it. Tell me if I need to know anything.”
Me: “Next week.”
She looks at me, stares at me.
I get up, go to the bathroom, then the kitchen. Discussion is over.
i.e.: unsaid: Get rid of complications. You have a week. Implication: I will do the same (unsaid).
* More Domination Game. Can I get her to get rid of other men?
If this works: INCREDIBLE.
Just TRYING to dominate (so long as you never break frame at important moments) is exhausting.
I’ve never had anything like this frame of mind before.
I come back, get ready for work; I’m going to leave her in my place and let her show herself out. I tell her she can have the run of the place.
I gently say, laughing, “And if you like, you can do the dishes too,” and laugh.
I leave, kiss her, try not to just fall all over myself and say PLEASE NEVER LEAVE ME YOU AMAZING WOMAN, and leave.
Wednesday:
Text message, 1:00
Her: “Come to my place Saturday”
Delay: 20 min
Me: “Make something yummy.”
(domination: Agree to do it but I have terms; I’m doing her a favour, not the other way around).
Night:
Get home from work.
The dishes are done and my bed is made.
*** HOW LONG CAN I KEEP THIS UP? ***
Un be freaking lievable.
*ANY* dickless loser who says that
GAME IS NOT RELEVANT
IS A TOTAL RETARD.
Can I shout it any louder?
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Gorb!!!
Gooooodness……well done.
“She shows up at 8:45, smiling and comes in. I kiss her, without delay, intensely;”
–lovin it.
“In sex, give them the Romantic Hero from the romance novel who takes her without question.”
–yep. A man going for it, making a girl feel wanted by him will melt any inhibitions on her part. It’s every girl’s dream to be taken—owned. Cave man game, yum.
You had nine hours of sex/love making/fucking, etc. There are no other men in her head now. A guy can erase any other man trying to win over a girl if you fuck her right, I cannot stress this enough. She’s done and is yours. For now at least. She may try to recover some of the power because she knows she’s weak for you though. I know I would try to– just so I wouldn’t drown in it.
I think you handled it splendidly. I’m happy for you and her, this is only the beginning and anything is possible.
It should be said too, that the man who left me reeling the most (in both good ways and bad) was a 5/6 in looks at best. He was very average but he pulled ‘beastly game’ on me and just pounced after several weeks of my fending him off. I didn’t stand a chance after that. Any other guy in the picture disappeared and all I could think about was him.
you rock Gorb, you dirty bastard. good for you.
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Agree with Anouk, she is yours now — if you don’t make a serious mistake there is no way she will even think about another man romantically. That’s not how you’d react, but it’s different for girls. You’ve got lots of work to do to solidify everything, but if you handle it right success is now guaranteed.
Actually, I knew you could get her as soon as you wrote about Latin dance night — the kiss close and pull-back and text message from her after showed that she had been successfully hooked — it was all technique after that. In other words, since that point it has been your game to lose, though the skill required was very high — before that point, even perfect technique might have failed. What you have been doing since then has been emotionally very difficult but technically straightforward; but your game on Latin dance night was not technique, it was Grandmaster-level creativity and brilliance in all phases: pre-game prep, opening, middle-game, and endgame. Kasparov would be proud to have played a game of that quality.
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@Anoukange,
“She shows up at 8:45, smiling and comes in. I kiss her, without delay, intensely;”
–lovin it.
Don’t let her think and keep it brazenly sensual / sexual.
“In sex, give them the Romantic Hero from the romance novel who takes her without question.”
–yep. A man going for it, making a girl feel wanted by him will melt any inhibitions on her part. It’s every girl’s dream to be taken—owned. Cave man game, yum.
You had nine hours of sex/love making/fucking, etc. There are no other men in her head now. A guy can erase any other man trying to win over a girl if you fuck her right, I cannot stress this enough. She’s done and is yours. For now at least. She may try to recover some of the power because she knows she’s weak for you though. I know I would try to– just so I wouldn’t drown in it.
She’s trying to recover some of it. I meet her again today, her territory.
I’m trying not to spend the afternoon doing nothing but planning.
I think you handled it splendidly. I’m happy for you and her, this is only the beginning and anything is possible.
My mind is already racing with the possibilities. Racing.
It should be said too, that the man who left me reeling the most (in both good ways and bad) was a 5/6 in looks at best.
Anouk, that’s interesting. She already told me I wasn’t her usual type of guy. And I said, good for you; apparently, your usual type of guy wasn’t what you wanted.
He was very average but he pulled ‘beastly game’ on me and just pounced after several weeks of my fending him off. I didn’t stand a chance after that. Any other guy in the picture disappeared and all I could think about was him.
Hm. Interesting.
I wonder how he did it. Care to share?
you rock Gorb, you dirty bastard. good for you.
I am a dirty bastard.
But I’d like to point out that this one is catching me as quickly as I catch her. If not quicker.
The illusion of power is just that – an illusion. I have hand because I’m trying hard, very hard.
@polymath
Agree with Anouk, she is yours now — if you don’t make a serious mistake there is no way she will even think about another man romantically.
It’ s why I wanted her to get rid of anyone else.
That’s not how you’d react, but it’s different for girls.
I know. But it’s one thing to conquer; it’s another to keep.
Now time to work towards keeping. And falling.
You’ve got lots of work to do to solidify everything, but if you handle it right success is now guaranteed.
Guaranteed sounds a little strong. But I;m going to make sure she can barely think and when she’s not with me, all she can think of is me.
Actually, I knew you could get her as soon as you wrote about Latin dance night — the kiss close and pull-back and text message from her after showed that she had been successfully hooked — it was all technique after that.
I’ve done this before – not rocket science – but at this level of composure and consistency, never.
In other words, since that point it has been your game to lose, though the skill required was very high — before that point, even perfect technique might have failed.
That’s true.
I think the extremely daring public kiss and then leaving – shock and awe – was part of what did it.
What you have been doing since then has been emotionally very difficult but technically straightforward; but your game on Latin dance night was not technique, it was Grandmaster-level creativity and brilliance in all phases: pre-game prep, opening, middle-game, and endgame.
Also Salsa Game. All body movement and touch. You have to follow the principles, but never use words. It’s a different language.
Kasparov would be proud to have played a game of that quality.
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To those who find my chess analogy offensive: it isn’t, the difference is that men and women are not playing a zero-sum game but rather a “non-zero-sum game of imperfect information”. That means that skill is required but the outcome can be “win-win”.
Forgive the technical digression, but game theory in the mathematical sense is really relevant here. A cold-hearted PUA going for a P&D is playing something close to a zero-sum game because he doesn’t care about the girl’s feelings or well-being. A couple who know each other well are playing a non-zero sum game with perfect information — normal result is a negotiation and a Nash equilibrium, some skill required. A couple who don’t know each other well are playing a non-zero sum game with imperfect information — disasters are possible, Prisoner’s Dilemma can apply so that the best result for one might not be the best for the other. Even where there is a stable outcome optimal for both partners, which I hope is true for Gorb and PCG, the imperfect information means they are not sure whether such an outcome exists or what it is, so they may both need great skill to get there without risking disastrous misjudgement.
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Poly-
“disastrous misjudgement.”
–I theorize this to be at the root of 75-85% of all crash and burns from what I’ve seen.
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@Gorby, remember what you got in game for. Having a little monogamy for a while can be a good thing. Over time you can intentionally add comfort to the game ala Athol Kay.
I had a similar experience to yours after divorce. I had been so used to slumming it while married, while my now-ex went from a 7 to a 5 over the years, that I thought I couldn’t do any better. I sort of unintentionally gamed my current GF, who is a 7.5 in looks, but if sex on demand adds two and brains and character add a bit, she’s an 11. I did, as I said, a lot of unintentional push-pull, because it was right after separation and I honestly didn’t know if I wanted to get involved that soon. I met her when I was on my Harley and had a woman with me (a married acquaintance who I was supposed to be bringing home, but she short of gamed me and invited herself to the party by not telling me where she lived). When I eventually gave in and decisively moved on my GF, I also heard from her that she’d never had it like that. I started to learn game in order to keep the attraction up. It’s been going good for over a year, and I can tell you that with this kind of intensity and frequency, there is no need, time, or desire to chase tail. Hell I don’t even masturbate any more, and I did that daily for 20 years except for the odd time my warpig wanted it. So do go ahead and fall in love. It’s ok.
Having said all that, take your time for a few weeks; a woman doesn’t expect exclusive dating rights immediately in this day and age and won’t mind in retrospect being chosen as “the one” over all the others. There is no need to pretend you weren’t dating others when you met or that you’re not now. I don’t, however, subscribe to the idea of long-term harems or anything. Any woman who would accept that kind of arrangement willingly is of low character and who would want her. If you are able to get a high-quality woman to accept that despite her character, well, let’s just say with great power comes great responsibility. Think about the bitchy HB10’s that run beta game on all the hapless AFC’s out there, getting them to buy drinks, etc., when they have no chance. They, too, have a responsibility to use their attractive power for good, but of course there are evil bitches who don’t do that. Do you want to be an evil bitch, or do you just want love?
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She already told me I wasn’t her usual type of guy. And I said, good for you; apparently, your usual type of guy wasn’t what you wanted.
Well-played, you are clearly not losing your focus. But if it is as hard to maintain as you say, you can’t spend too much time with her until you have grown into the role, there wouldn’t be enough recovery time and you’d falter. Not every day, not yet.
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Gorbachev,
I still haven’t read your full story, but what I have read sounds AMAZING. Congratulations on your accomplishment. I have a similar story to tell, of conquering a girl of my dreams. It has a different ending, but still. Nothing is as thrilling as comopletely devouring a beautiful girl. Nothing.
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G is back online, maybe we’ll get an update,
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@Schmoe
@Gorby, remember what you got in game for. Having a little monogamy for a while can be a good thing. Over time you can intentionally add comfort to the game ala Athol Kay.
This has occurred to me. PCG is better than a stable.
Monogamy has been an occasional foray. I can justify it that way. I’ve punctuated it by experimentation and harem-building. This time, it might be worth serious relationship-building. Not slipping into Beta and one-itising is the big deal; and it would damage Game, on a fundamental level.
I have to keep her on the edge, not comfortably in relationship-zone. Therefore, other interests are critical.
May work against me; but the crucial element here is control. Getting comfy and relaxing is not an option: Controlling her sexuality and keeping her glued to me is what’s necessary. For this, other women floating around is not necessarily a bad thing.
Do you want to be an evil bitch, or do you just want love?
I’ll ponder that one.
Do we get other options?
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Gorb-
“I have to keep her on the edge, not comfortably in relationship-zone.”
Be careful of the edge. Relationship zone is far off in the future, there is no need to worry about comfort in the first months. It won’t be comfortable and that is often part of the high. Let the natural newness be part of the game, no need to overkill. Gorb, if the girl seems like she has a heart I don’t recommend playing the jealous game too hard. In a girl’s head nine hours of sex is massively significant. I warned of her wanting some of the power back because she gave herself to you in that way. But do wait and see how she attempts to do this. I would say don’t rev it up too much, maintain it where it’s at. There’s a lot that can be harnessed naturally at this point for you two.
“but the crucial element here is control.”
–Depends. Do you sense she gave herself to you in the way that she did due to your exact maneuvering of game plays? Or do you think it is/was a combo of game and natural chemistry now established between the two of you? You may have control and blow it by dealing in jealous games that are over-played and scare her off.
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Gorb,
I agree with Anouk. You’re getting a bit paranoid here. There is no other man in the picture, no matter who was there before you have overwritten that data. You don’t have to “maintain control” by making a calculated or speculative maneuver; just being the person you have been with her so far will do it. Don’t try to make her comfortable, but you don’t need to try to make her insecure either.
Jealousy is the wrong game here, that’s for if she somehow cools to you. It makes no sense to her at *this* stage that you could prefer anyone else to her, and trying to convey that impression *now* will make her doubt that you are the person she thought you were, rather than doubting herself which is the usual objective of jealousy game. (With jealousy game you are trying to get a woman to either think that you’re more attractive than she’d thought, or think that she’s less attractive to you than she’d thought; neither makes sense here.)
Your two main pitfalls right now are being too much of a jerk and being too beta; but there is more safe distance between these than you seem to realize, you should dial down the scheming and focus on “growing into the role”.
P.S. Take careful steps to prevent her discovering this website on your computer. If all goes well, she will be ready for it in a few months, when she will know you well enough not to misinterpret your use of game, but right now you have to keep being the same person for her, I think what she is most scared of is having misjudged you.
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@anoukange
Gorb-
“I have to keep her on the edge, not comfortably in relationship-zone.”
Be careful of the edge. Relationship zone is far off in the future, there is no need to worry about comfort in the first months. It won’t be comfortable and that is often part of the high.
This is true. But she likes excitement. And there’s a conclusion I’m trying to build to.
Let the natural newness be part of the game, no need to overkill. Gorb, if the girl seems like she has a heart I don’t recommend playing the jealous game too hard.
I know. I agree. Not only does she have a heart, she has a beautiful one. You have to hear the most recent update.
I have little heart to game her more than necessary.
In a girl’s head nine hours of sex is massively significant.
Yeah, read update. This one is a serious gem. Damn.
I warned of her wanting some of the power back because she gave herself to you in that way.
Yup, … and she tried to get it. And I denied her.
But do wait and see how she attempts to do this. I would say don’t rev it up too much, maintain it where it’s at. There’s a lot that can be harnessed naturally at this point for you two.
“but the crucial element here is control.”
–Depends. Do you sense she gave herself to you in the way that she did due to your exact maneuvering of game plays? Or do you think it is/was a combo of game and natural chemistry now established between the two of you? You may have control and blow it by dealing in jealous games that are over-played and scare her off.
There’s so much natural chemistry now, its no longer possible to run disinterested game. When she walks in the room, it’s like explosions in the brain. Same for her, apparently.
I agree about the jealousy.
This why I’m going to play it for a reasonable time. I need to keep my alpha credibility: I have many options (which is true, just not options like her. She doesn’t need to know that). And then I’m going to close them as she closes hers.
Not completely, of course, but I think monogamy with this girl is pretty sweet. She turns out to be quite a nice person, as well as a super hot chick. Just classy, classy all around.
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@polymath
Gorb,
I agree with Anouk. You’re getting a bit paranoid here. There is no other man in the picture, no matter who was there before you have overwritten that data.
Did I ever. Wait for update. Unbelievable.
You don’t have to “maintain control” by making a calculated or speculative maneuver; just being the person you have been with her so far will do it. Don’t try to make her comfortable, but you don’t need to try to make her insecure either.
Jealousy is the wrong game here, that’s for if she somehow cools to you.
I just want to maintain alpha credibility. She has to think I have options (good ones). And that she’s a choice I make. Which she is.
I have no LTR of a permanent nature going on, anyway.
It makes no sense to her at *this* stage that you could prefer anyone else to her, and trying to convey that impression *now* will make her doubt that you are the person she thought you were, rather than doubting herself which is the usual objective of jealousy game. (With jealousy game you are trying to get a woman to either think that you’re more attractive than she’d thought, or think that she’s less attractive to you than she’d thought; neither makes sense here.)
I agree completely. I’m in a complicated situation; I am uncomplicating it to be with her. This is my approach.
Your two main pitfalls right now are being too much of a jerk and being too beta; but there is more safe distance between these than you seem to realize, you should dial down the scheming and focus on “growing into the role”.
The scheming is being dialed down because I can’t keep it up. It’s enough to be able to keep up frame in the time we spend together.
P.S. Take careful steps to prevent her discovering this website on your computer. If all goes well, she will be ready for it in a few months, when she will know you well enough not to misinterpret your use of game, but right now you have to keep being the same person for her, I think what she is most scared of is having misjudged you.
She can;t find it. Anyway, there’s too much info here, she’ll be able to identify it if she finds it on my computer, but not randomly on the internet. I’ve been careful.
I have been doing this for a while – heh. I’m not a Master, but I’ve managed some complex, … situations before.
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“It makes no sense to her at *this* stage that you could prefer anyone else to her, and trying to convey that impression *now* will make her doubt that you are the person she thought you were, rather than doubting herself which is the usual objective of jealousy game.”
agreed Poly. Although it does depend on the woman. Some girls get off on a challenge while others don’t. If she begins to doubt the connect she may pull away. The world has never had a shortage of men who are machines with their feelings. Detachment in men is nothing new and it never feels good for the girl on the receiving end of it. Proving you’re human with some guts/balls/passion/ability to care but also one who could walk away of it turned for the worse is the frame to maintain I think. But then again, I’m a girl.
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@anoukange
Some girls get off on a challenge while others don’t. If she begins to doubt the connect she may pull away.
She’s not going to be doubting the connect. Unlikely. Now.
The world has never had a shortage of men who are machines with their feelings. Detachment in men is nothing new and it never feels good for the girl on the receiving end of it. Proving you’re human with some guts/balls/passion/ability to care but also one who could walk away of it turned for the worse is the frame to maintain I think. But then again, I’m a girl.
That’s the frame. You’re right. Good sense there, Anouk.
You could game.
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On the Sexual Marketplace
Some will recognize this story from my recent comments, trying to romance a woman (PCG) who without game would be way, way out of my league. Read Why Game Will Still Be Relevant thread. This story shows how truly vital game is.
Background note: Some interesting game used on Wednesday at PCG’s apt. I’ll post that in a proceeding post.
Background
For those who haven’t read my comments, PCG is a ridiculously attractive woman I’m romancing. My own physical attractiveness is average: 6 or 6.5 (GFs who like me say 6.5. Others who only like fucking me say 6). PCG is a solid 8.5, and a 9 in a summer dress, without debate. All heads turn when she walks into a room. Men gravitate to her like flies to an electric light. Look up early pictures of Sarah Shahi for a hotness comparison. She’s 27, I’m just less than a decade older than her.
My ex-wife, just younger than me, left me 5 years ago. It wasn’t acrimonious, but she left for the classic reason: No more Gynatingles. I had no game. She was bored. She went through a brief series of Bad Boys, all of whom tooled her and left; a cock carousel. As she said to one friend, she found herself and her freedom. She was attractive when I met her, but has not aged as well as she might have. She’s a very genial 6 right now. She’s been single for some time.
I learned about game after she left. It was agony. Her leaving was much of the reason.
My ex and I are always very civil to each other.
This Evening:
PCG and I went to a social function. It was packed with people, maybe 100-200. A lot of people I knew were there, including a couple of work associates and a horde of friends.
Needless to say, when I walked in with PCG, I had huge amounts of attention. I noticed some very interesting things.
1) It was the *women* who were glancing over the most. And they didn’t look much at PCG. They were glancing at me. Walking in with PCG gave me massive Pre-Selection.
2) Men were more deferential to me. Most didn’t ask “Where did you find this woman?” One said, “Your girlfriend is something else.” But all of the men treated me with just a bit more friendliness than usual.
3) Over the course of the night, several women came by to chat with me, though PCG and I were rarely separated (it wasn’t that kind of function; we stuck together). These women were a mixed group, but I got the distinct impression that my being with easily the hottest woman in the room – and most elegant, as an elderly stateswoman complimented – had something to do with it.
Interesting Meeting
My ex wife was there. I didn’t know this would be the case, but suspected it might happen; I didn’t mention a word to PCG prior. My tack: It’s irrelevant to her and I.
My ex and I speak when we meet, and are civil and even friendly. We usually go over and at least say hello.
She spent almost the entire evening avoiding me. However, I noticed her looking over on many occasions. I know women, and her; not coming over was conspicuous.
She’s seen me over the years with other women on occasion. She’s made comments about my immaturity for dating younger women (because I should, according to her logic, be dating someone my own age – not a younger woman). She’s seen me with at least 2 other women, both more attractive than she is, but not in the past year.
Through brownian motion, we eventually bumped into each other. She was there with a friend that I recognized, a woman she’s known for years and who has always thought I was a great guy. We chatted amiably, but skirted the elephant in the room. When PCG rejoined us, I introduced her and we all talked for a minute or so. I feigned a bit of casual discomfort, a bit of modesty, and we begged away. I didn’t introduce her to PCG as my ex-wife; PCG guessed a prior relationship, but never asked. I just said, “That was a little weird”, and smiled/half-grimaced.
Result
Later that evening, a slightly drunk mutual friend came up to me and said, “You should hear what (ex wife) said.” She didn’t say what it was. But I caught my ex looking at me for the rest of the time I was there.
My ex appeared slightly discombobulated and uneasy; in our brief chat, she made unusually snarky remarks about other subjects, and seemed a little more solicitous – despite herself.
It occurred to me that if I’d wanted to game my ex wife, I had just dropped a nuclear bomb on her. It would be almost absurdly easy now. Of course, I have no interest.
I would never have deliberately used PCG for this purpose. I actually respect her. But that said, it was the sweetest fucking moment with my ex since…
Ever.
The Sexual Marketplace
Men’s dating value, especially with game, goes up, to a point, as we advance beyond 30. Womens’ drops precipitously.
The woman you’re with has a huge impact on your perceived value.
A sweet moment. The bitterness in me rejoiced in a small, pathetic bit of vengeance. Perhaps I can do away with it some day.
In the meantime, I went home with my absolutely wonderful paramour. The best revenge may be living well, but I’ll add: The best revenge is living well, … conspicuously.
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PCG: Update on Wednesday Night
Wed night, I went over to PCG’s place. I haven’t been there that many times, but this time she was making dinner for me.
I’ve gotten into the habit of using strong game with her. I felt bad about it this time; but I had a plan.
Her food was great. I made some casual comments, though, and didn’t compliment it highly. It was polite but not entirely approving, “this X doesn’t really normally go with that Y”. She seemed slightly disappointed at some comments.
When she went into the kitchen when we were done, at one point, I followed her and got close; I moved up against her, looked at her and said, that was one of the best dinners anyone has ever made for me. I pushed her up against the wall; kissed her passionately, withdrew, put my forehead against hers, and left the kitchen with a smile and a nod of thanks.
Strategy: When she asked me for praise, I didn’t give it up easily; but later, I thanked her and praised her food – but on my terms, and more spectacularly and deeply. Shock and awe. Push and pull.
We discussed some political topics; it got a little heated (I tried to defend some libertarian views); she disagreed with me, and I forced the issue and called her out on a few inconsistencies. She seemed miffed that I’d ruffled her feathers and surprised at my views; hers are not dogmatically but are somewhat idealistically left-of-center. (Mine are Libertarian / non-conformist). I didn’t apologize for it, nor did I moderate my position (as she hadn’t really argued it well). She seemed a little taken aback by my refusal to acknowledge her position.
Then I moved on her and we had hard sex for a while.
After we had sex, I agreed that she might be right about some points, but pointed out that some of her positions were philosophically inconsistent with each other. But that there might be merit in it.
Again: I agreed with her on my terms, not hers. I want her to seek approval, in general, not for me to have to seek concordance or agreement or approval all the time.
This is my strategy: Answer everything with sex, and modify the sexual approach by what level of disturbance we had.
She told me on Thursday morning that she had never, ever, in her life had a connection with a man the way she did with me.
Of course, the same is happening in reverse, too. Hard to keep it all straight in my head.
In the morning, I left in a rush.
Texts that morning, inspired in theme by Roissy:
Me: Delicious.
Her: You like my food.
Me: And your food is good too.
Afternoon:
Her: You’re bad for me.
Her: I miss you.
Me: I know.
Her: You know which one?
Me: Both
Friday: I want to invite her to a social event.
Me: (event) Saturday. I’ll pick you up at 7:00.
(assuming her attendance)
Her: Special (event)? People?
Me: Green summer dress=prize.
Her: For me or I’m the prize?
Me: Both.
Saturday:
Event as given in a previous post.
Conversation later: She tells me she’s told the want-to-be lover (I assume he was, for a bit) that has been hanging around her for a couple of months that they’re not going to be together. I show no interest in who he is or what he does, I just nod and acknowledge.
Then we have sex; answer every emotional situation with sex, changed up and different when possible.
When she asks me if I’m okay (i.e., do I have any complications), I know this: She won’t tolerate me being non-monogamous, even at this point. That’s a non-starter here. For her, it’s an ethical thing: You don’t, ever, sleep with more than one person at a time. She has no respect for men or (especially) women who do this. This is a root ethical issue for her. We’ve discussed it in several contexts already.
I say: there was an issue. It was unfortunate (“I gave up someone for you: we’re bonding”), but don’t worry: “I’m with you now. It shouldn’t be an issue.”
Not that it won’t; that it shouldn’t. Meaning: might be complicated, might not. But I’m with you. Keeps her slightly off-balance, says I’m not screwing around on her as of now.
She’s so turned on, I’ve now realized: Game is not some of the success. It’s all of it. It goes straight to a woman’s sexual control center and if you parlay it right, it’s powerful.
I later learn the other guy is both 1) quite rich and 2) handsome. Probably also well-connected.
WTF am I doing: I’m on the very fucking edge of the usefulness of game. The very razor-sharp edge.
From this point on, she’s mine to lose. I’ve established myself with her and I don’t need to be as dominating all the time, just at pivot moments. I don’t want to lose this one, so it means:
Game game game. Carefully, though, I’m taking some advice from different people (several here) and not playing the jerk too much; just occasionally and mildly enough to assert myself, at moments when there’s an emotional pivot point or a re-establishment moment. But Ive decided to be the (aloof) nice guy much of the rest of the time.
Resolving the complexities was … something of a game challenge, too.
One might have gone somewhat badly.
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