We have a new series called “What did I do wrong?” here at the Chateau. You write in with a sad tale of chumpery describing where you went wrong with a girl(s), and Chateau proprietors explain your mistake and offer advice on how similar situations should be handled in the future.
Joe writes:
Last night I was at a concert taking place in an open field with some friends. We were having a great time when literally the hottest chick I have ever seen in my life (that’s saying a lot) comes up to me and asks where the bathroom is. In retrospect, I feel like I could’ve used game and salvaged the night. Anyway, here’s how the conversation went. If you could, let me know where I went wrong. I had absolutely no idea what to do in this situation:
HER: Hey, do you know where the bathroom is.
ME: (pointing to the farthest possible porto potty about two football fields away). It’s right over there.
HER: (stares into the distance for a good five seconds) Are you kidding me? My friends told me there was one over here.
ME: I am dead fucking serious. Your friends must have lied.
She leaves and takes my dignity with her.
Joe, one thing I don’t get from your story — were you deceptively pointing her in the direction of a bathroom that was at the farthest distance possible? Or was that really the closest bathroom to your location? If the former, then your game was weak, unless it was a ruse to join her on the long trek and attempt a pre-void pickup.
Where you went wrong: calling her friends liars. Better to have said her friends must be playing a joke on her. Harsh terms like “lie” are too negative to toss around in a serious manner during early game. A better answer would be more playful, e.g.:
HER: Are you kidding me? My friends told me there was one over here.
ME: Maybe they meant that big oak tree over there? I’ll cover for you.
The chick had to go to the bathroom, so you wouldn’t have had much time to game her even if you could pickup faster than she can remember her full bladder. And girls aren’t in a receptive frame of mind when they have to pee. Multiply that unreceptiveness tenfold if she’s turtling.
The obvious solution to your quandary would have been to join her on the long walk to the faraway toilets. Tell her you’ll walk with her because you’ve got to head in that direction anyhow. Unless she has an instant revulsion to you, she will agree to let you walk with her, and now you’ve got two football fields worth of distance to amp up any nascent attraction. Try not to make potty jokes. A girl never feels less attractive than right after giving birth or just before dropping a deuce. No need to remind her of that.
******
“F” writes:
I am a huge fan of your work. It has changed the way i look at women. This is the first time i send you an email. I’d like to submit (or elevate!) to your attention an email exchange i had with a girl i recently met only once, about a month ago. Since the first meeting (more details below) we have been emailing back and forth and the interaction has developed on a purely virtual basis. no follow up meet has happened yet. Clearly some bits of my interactions reek of beta-ness but i’ve tried to inject game in this exchange and to adjust the aim during the process. I have applied some game knowledge which seems to have kept the interaction alive (as expected) but i have arrived at a bit of a crossroads. She seems somehow intrigued by me but not enough to push it to the next level.
Background: I have met this solid 8.5, eternal ingenue type, at a bar in a business environment. After being introduced by a mutual acquaintance we start chatting and i immediately steer the conversation into non business related matters, completely skipping the “what do you do” thing, and specifically teasing her in this respect, asking her to stop pitching her business to me (we just swap cards) and started tenuously qualifying her. After maybe 5 minutes of interaction, she introduces me to some business associates of hers (she works for a law firm my firm does business with) and goes back talking to her other colleagues, leaving me alone with the associates she introduced me to. After some polite conversation with her associates i leave the venue (completely ignoring her). She emails me the following day. the interaction starts at the [top].
My question to you is: Is there a way i can improve my email game with this particular person? What would you have done if you were in my shoes and most importantly, how would you take it from here? How can you -in general- generate an initial attraction/intrigue via email? as practitioner of day game, it happens quite often that the initial buying temperature after the number close is still very low and needs to be increased via texting or email…otherwise it might be difficult to get her not to be flakey.
looking forward to your reply If you ever decide to publish this exchange on your website (which you are welcome to do), I would kindly request you not to disclose my name nor anything that could compromise my or her identity (although i have already tried to edit out all the relevant details).
Thanks a million
F
P.S. my comments are in brackets <…>
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
HER: <this is the first email of the interaction…her self esteem seemed irked by my leaving the venue without homaging her with my attention>
Hi F,
Nice meeting you last night. Unfortunate that we didn’t get a chance to chat more, I turned around and you were gone – were you bored by my colleagues or just the <her firm’s name> pitch? 🙂
Cheers,
<her name>ME:
🙂 Well, to be honest, I was bored by both (but I admit I also had to run to meet some friends). Its ok, you can make it up to me by taking me for a coffee sometimes..under one condition: no shop talk 😉 CiaoHER:
Sure, happy to – how does your schedule look this/next wk?
Cheers, <her name>ME:
I am free Friday, we can hang out after work. Cool?HER:
I can’t this Friday I am afraid (it’s my birthday) – any other day perhaps?ME: Happy birthday. I am around Saturday for early drinks, otherwise next week (not Monday, I am going to the racetrack in ZZZ).
HER: Would it be possible to meet next week? I am not feeling well..
ME: Well..I hope u didn’t get sick on your b’day.
Let’s meet wednesday at 7pm at <trendy neighborhood bar><She calls me 15 minutes before the meet and cancels claiming she had to work. I act unfazed and actually say “I don’t care”>
HER: <she immediately emails after the call apologizing again for the last minute cancellation>.
So sorry – I live in XXX so I’ll drop you a line later and if you are out maybe we can grab a drink in that area?ME: <after 20 minutes>
I doubt it, am not free later tonight. Maybe next time. Ciao.HER: <immediately>
Sure. How was the racetrack in Zxxxxx by the way?ME: <after 20 minutes> adrenalinic. that’s what I need to wash away the week’s inertia.
HER: <replies after 10 minutes> Very cool. Were you a spectator or a participant?
ME: <after a few hours>
Participant of course. I wouldn’t bother to go all the way to zxxxxx to watch other people racing.HER: <replies after 1 day>
Either way sounds like a lot of fun. How often do you go?ME: <ignoring her question>
Yeah its one of the things I like to do. So…and what rocks your boat? Who are you?HER:
Hmm, it kind of depends on my mood? Last wknd I indulged in a bit of self pampering with massage and facial on Saturday followed by an intense afternoon of horseback riding on Sunday..how long have you been racing?ME:
I have been racing for a year or so…but my real passion is martial arts.
Hmm…our pursuits couldn’t be more polarized. Leisurely Horseback riding, spa and massage…versus Car racing and martial arts…Relaxation vs adrenaline!
By the way I hope your employers pays you well because you still owe me the coffee from the beginning of this thread..and trust me, I am gonna pick a really super expensive coffee shop.HER:
Chuckles – “leisure” horseback riding couldn’t be farther from truth. I did the arena training last weekend – we are talking real 1500 lbs horsepower with a mind of its own..i want to be good enough one day to go to one of those working ranches and round a herd of wild cattle, that would be uber fun.
Yes yes coffee is overdue – do you like hot chocolate? I LOVE Caffé XYZ’s hot coco con panna.ME:
Gee..I’ve forgotten you’re Texan…and a lawyer 😉
So from 1 to 10 how adventurous are you?HER:
🙂 and you are from Ixxxx and a <my profession> guru except you don’t like to shoptalk in your spare time (me neither).Hard to rate b/c it depends on how you define and what you consider is adventurous? But I am definitely a believer of carpe diem. What fun do you hv planned for the wknd?
ME:
Oh dear… The definition of adventurous. Foggeddabboudid 🙂Actually…let me give you an example:
Tomorrow I am going with a few friends on a boat trip to XXX. Sea, Beach and (hopefully) sun… if you were to join me on a whim with such a short notice (vessel leaves at 10am sharp on pier 1, return in the afternoon) then I would consider you (on my scale), a robust 7, maybe even a probable 8. I would be more than impressed by your initiative, understanding and application of the spirit of the horatian carpe diem. Makes sense? 🙂HER:
Sounds like a lot of fun (and thank you for the invitation) but I have horseback riding in the morning! 🙂 I guess I’ll just have to impress with my cupcakes or something…do you golf by any chance?ME (I reply after 2 weeks)
I don’t like cupcakes nor golf. Too bad.HER (replies immediately):
Ouch 🙂 going anywhere interesting for <local festivity> tomorrow?ME:
Am in NY right now..am out with friends. I love the city this part of the year. Will be here till the weekendHER:
Yes, NY is fab around this time of year. Enjoy..I heart NYC 🙂ME:
am doing my best. This city never sleeps. What’s your plan for <local festivity>?HER: Going to YYY <nearby tourist destination>, can’t wait! Where abouts in NYC are you hanging out?
ME:
YYY? I strongly recommend staying in this hotel <url>. Stayed there last year.
I am on my way back home now. Have to work tomorrow.HER:
Thanks! Looks really pretty..
Your first mistake was not getting her home number. Swapping business cards, and hence email contact info, is too formal. A number exchange personalizes the pickup, and puts her on notice that you don’t intend to treat her as a business associate.
Your second mistake was relying on email game to move the seduction forward. In fact, email communication is anhedonic. It will actually move you further from seduction once you’re past the minimum threshold needed to set up a face to face date. Endless emailing is yappity yappy, and it’s been noted many times here that girls prefer a little mystery in their men. Serial email rapport strips away mystery and makes you seem less manly with each email exchange that passes without a real life meeting transpiring. It bears mentioning as well that the longer you email the more likely you are to blurt something that lowers her buying temperature instead of raises it. Even the wittiest seducers will say something unattractive if enough words are spilled, and, unfair though it may be, to the mind of a woman one misstep can erase ten tingle amplifiers.
I included the entirety of your email exchange because, even though it is painfully tedious, I wanted the studio audience to see what “try-hard” looks like in all its morbid desperation. There is simply too much emailing going on here for a girl you haven’t yet fucked, let alone haven’t yet *met for a date*. Dude, no joke, I have had less total email communication with girls I have been fucking for a year.
Be that as it may, as email game goes, yours suffered from many unforced errors.
1. Too many smilies and question marks. A good rule of thumb when texting or emailing a girl is simply to refrain from using emoticons or question marks at all. Following this rule will help rewire your brain into mimicking the brain of an alpha.
2. You gave her too many free times to meet. You said you were free Friday, Saturday, and next week (except Monday). That’s too much available time for a busy man of the world. And it’s best to avoid setting up first dates on weekend nights. She’s not that important, yet.
3. When she flaked 15 minutes before the first date, that should have been it for her. Not worth your consideration. At the very least, stop the emailing. You should have been setting up this fucking date over the phone anyhow, not through email! Email is a girl’s best friend because it gives her total freedom to respond when and how she likes. Email strips the pitch and timbre of your rumbling manly voice, and elevates her voice to equally persuasive footing. A girl needs to feel tension before feeling attraction, and you helpfully sucked the air out of any tension by allowing her to continue contacting you through email.
4. When she offered a second chance to meet later in the night, your reply sounded tinged with bitterness. “I doubt it” is not a good answer. A simple “maybe”, and nothing else, would have sufficed to keep the interaction on life support.
5. Why are you rewarding a flaky girl with a long, drawn out conversation about racing and other assorted snippets from your life? Has she earned this attention from you? These are the things you share with a woman when you are gazing in her eyes and your hand is inching up her thigh.
6. You played a “1 to 10” qualification game with a proven flake over email. You pulled the trigger too soon. Save that powerhouse stuff for an actual date.
7. Never use the words “oh dear” if you are a man. Not even in ironic self-awareness.
8. Let me get this straight. You invited a known last minute flake to take a boat ride with you. And you are showering her with these rewards… why? I’m not at all surprised she turned you down again with some excuse about horseback riding. She’s got you exactly where she wants you — giving everything and getting nothing in return!
9. Your response to her second rejection (two weeks later!) was more bitterness. Don’t you think she notices how abruptly your mood changes, from happy (if a bit strained) banter about boating to sullenness about not liking cupcakes or golf? And a two week delay makes it seem like you were stewing the whole time, for what man with a full schedule is going to remember what some chick said about cupcakes two weeks ago? Again, when spurned by a gameplaying woman, the best answer is short, noncommittal, and emotionally neutral. You neither like nor dislike. Make her guess what you’re thinking.
10. And in the end you give a flake the URL for a hotel you recommend. She gets her ego pumped up, and some helpful advice, all for the low low cost of…… no snatch for you! Despite their cheery smiles and sympathetic eyes, girls really do not respect men who give of themselves without taking anything in return. She wants you to take her pussy, and to do it with the minimal investment possible. Congratulations, sir, you are her personal LJBF beta orbiter.
Stop emailing her, she is a lost cause. If she emails you first, wait a few days before responding *with a phone call*. Do not reference anything she wrote. Act as if her words are merely a medium to enable your masculine essence to reach into the depth of her soul (conveniently located just behind her clitoris), and tell her email is for giggling schoolchildren, and she will meet you at X on X for a cocktail that is on her. If she agrees and you meet, you have recaptured hand. If she balks, wish her well and hang up. Life is too short.
Getting married (and divorced) in my 20’s. Talk about throwing your best decade away. Yeah it’s not the kind of “with girls” situation the Dark Lord was asking about, but it involves girls too.
I never had problem getting the girl. But thanks to my beta/traditional upbringing I always did have a problem walking away from them, before things “got serious”.
I suspect many men struggle with the walking-away part. I don’t know if its evolutionary hard-wired or a cultural infestation of “niceguytis”, but I see it amongst other guys now in real life all the time.
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First
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TIP JAR TIP JAR TIP JAR TIP JAR TIP JAR TIP JAR TIP JAR TIP JAR TIP JAR TIP JAR TIP JAR TIP JAR TIP JAR TIP JAR TIP JAR TIP JAR TIP JAR TIP JAR TIP JAR TIP JAR TIP JAR TIP JAR TIP JAR TIP JAR TIP JAR TIP JAR TIP JAR TIP JAR TIP JAR TIP JAR
you’ll make money you retard.
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From the first emoticon and direct answer about where he went, she had the upper hand. Alternating between serious and bitter didn’t help. It was over by the time ‘Who are you?’ arrived, though that was weak too. I’m married and I’ve never asked my wife who she is. Women show and tell, regardless of whether you ask. There’s no reason to willingly make them the center of attention.
You probably could’ve salvaged with the cupcake part. She was still willing to do something for you. “I like chocolate without too much homemade icing. Hand deliver them to me at X on X. You’re buying the drinks.” Women want you to be in charge. They want to do stuff for you. Check out Ricky Raw’s 31 Days of Game for more.
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Women on Marriage: Why Do Men And Women Get Married?
http://www.forbes.com/2010/05/30/relationships-work-life-balance-parenting-divorce-forbes-woman-time-marriage.html
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For what it’s worth: I find emails and texts to be more of a liability than an asset. It is a mine field for for men that want to keep the escalation going. There are too many opportunities to create the exact opposite impression than the one you had intended. Moreover sarcasm and humor can be misinterpreted.
Call or face-to-face is the only way to go. If she insists on texts and emails, than that should be a hint that this girl is a future flake. Attraction needs to be worked to be escalated and emails just cannot provide the platform necessary to escalate to a date or more.
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“F” you can salvage the situation. ask her for some lawyer advice, but make yourself look like a man…then follows R’s directions. once her guards down, go for the kill. but most of all remember…don’t email like a bitch.
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I agree 100% with this analysis.
The flake girl could have been salvaged but F shouldn’t have emailed her back. His “I don’t care” seemed to have gotten to her and this was something he could have built on. At this point he had her number but she had already proven she was shit. I would have sent her a text maybe a week later, relatively late at night to come meet me for drinks. She doesn’t deserve anything else.
First
FAIL
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lozlzlzlzlz zlzozlzlzozlzlzl
if you call a girl you are a beta
teh shorter your text the more alpha you are
betas call and go waah wha ah whahahaha whahaha and lets get dinner whahaha wha hwhwhahah and meet up for drinks wahahahahhaha a haahahahah ahahahaha and then when the betas are buying her drinks at the bar, the alpha writes,
“cockas!”
and she checks her phone and gioggle and the beta goes “What?” and she goes “nothing. just my friend he is soooo funny. lzozl”
and then she comes over and sucks on my cockas after you got soem drinks into her lzozlzlzlzzllzlzl
see the federal reserve is training you to support the women that the fiat masters butthex in the butt while secretly taping it.
good job!! you are 2 be commended for buying her drinks before she blows me!!
lzozlzz
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Giggles @ gbfm
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kaikou send me your cell and i will text you “cockas” when some beta working way on down tat teh boottom for benernake is boring u 2 death and buying you drinks lzozlzl
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sometimes i text
lotsa cockas cum over lozlzl
it alwyas works!!
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see womenz have been trined by bernanke to hate and detest classical epic poetry and the exlated soul and they are funded to fart on and destory such noble netitie with fiat dollars and when you let womenz into publsihing eduation and journalism, it always always turns towards them repalcing god and truth and homer and jesus and socrates and milton with butthex and sodomy and secrtiev tapers of butthex without the girls conthent which is why ben beranke wires fiat dollarz 2 femisnist and neocn womenz like sara palin who talks talks talks all about christianity while her kid is fucking out of wedlock and now anothe rkid will grow up with no father hich is how the neocons want it so they gets it zlozozlzlz
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Sorry GBFM, you’re wrong on this one. Setting up a date after you’ve met someone in person should almost always be done over the phone. But, the conversation shouldn’t last very long. R spells it out exactly right at the end. Just say “let’s meet at X destination on X day” and leave it at that. Not “where do you want to meet” or “when are you free.” She’s demonstrated that she wants to play games about her schedule and so you need to refuse to play… which is exactly what she wants anyway. She wants to have a choice but the choice needs to be a passive one. She’s choosing to either meet you or not meet you, she doesn’t get to choose a place or time or date.
For the record, this choice applies to all women in all relationships. My wife hates when I ask “so what do you want to do this weekend” or “where should we take the kids after work?” to the point where she has literally demanded that I stop asking her that kind of question. She much rather prefers when I come home on Friday and right as I come through the door say “Let’s go to the beach/park/zoo/space center tomorrow. It’ll be a blast.”
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I really hope she reads this blog.
Reading her exact thought process as dictated by a 3rd person observer male would surely make her head explode.
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lozlzozozzl
the bucket writes, “Sorry GBFM, you’re wrong on this one. Setting up a date after you’ve met someone in person should almost always be done over the phone.”
lolzozlzlzllz omg rotflozlzlzlzzllzlzlzling!!!!
did you see that?
zlzolzlzl
they wrote “Setting up a date” lzolzlzlzllzll
obviusly they have nver been to coolege and are thus completerly ignorant as to how it works and teh propert etiquiette now tat chiccks have been bernankified awith ascocking dicks clebrated n necoins magaiznes and tehir publishing hosues lzozlzlzl
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Beta Email analysis is totally right through precision of a cardiovascular surgeon. Great insight!
From worst to best.
Email –> Facebook —> TXT on phone —-> Phone call —-> Face to face —–> word of mouth = social proof
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@Paul – She’d probably let him know that he really blew it with his insecurity. She’d say he just needed to pin her down with some self-confidence on his part.
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I really love the amount of subtlety yet precision about game. People wonder all the time why they got flaked on or owned, but in reality its very simple. Sigh.. good job as usual R.
I suppose the noobs will never actually comprehend some of these things- even though they might learn a trick or two- its just a facade they put on
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Wow lots of great stuff in the email. But I need to reconcile this with what you’ve said earlier, that the phone is dead. These days I set up dates using text. Should he call first because he just got the business card and not the #?
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just used gbfm’s cockas routine! worked like a charm…thanks gbfm!!
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yah when a chick gets a text and checks it and it says “cockas” and she sees your name she goes lzozlzlzllz!
she can text you back and say “WTF?”
and you can text back.
sry meant 2 send it 2 someone else but we should hang smtime lzozlzllzlz
guarantee she gwill be over sucking yoru cockas
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what soo manyu of you are missing is that tehse dayz you are not dealing with your mom and grandma whoare very nice ladies at least grandma was but you are dealing with desouled berannkified chix lozlzlzlzlz who the feds and neocns have funded and promote asscocking sessions with until all the soul is gone gone gone lzozlzlllzlz
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The email correspondence was very funny.
I agree that a straight man should never say “oh dear”, “oh gosh” or anything even vaguely cutesy, also avoid the word “love”, “adore”, “heart” even when not talking about the girl in question.
When dealing with an eternal ingenue in particular, at all costs avoid mimicking her conversational style, this is the kiss of death. Funnily enough, so many men fail to realise that there is only room for one eternal ingenue in a relationship, upstage her at your peril.
Also, this guy’s writing style is too feminine. He needs to use shorter sentences, and avoid words like “polarized”. He also needs to avoid Latin maxims, and philosophical musings. Emoters are not good either, if only because they take away the mystery. Without emoters, she will puzzle over what was meant more.
I also can’t understand why he didn’t ask her at the beginning for her phone number, this would have been the logical response to her first email.
But I really don’t think she was ever interested, or she would not have turned down all those opportunities to meet. I’m not sure if she’s trying to network by using her sex appeal or whether she’s just bored at work (I would be interested to know whether or not the replies that came back straight away were all sent from work).
I did consider whether or not she might be following the Rules or something like that (lawyer chicks are often addicted to that kind of thing) but her flaking has gone too far even for that explanation.
I just think she wasn’t ever attracted to him.
I suppose it is just possible, given the asexuality of his writing style, that she might think he just likes her as a friend, I’m a bit sceptical of this though, most women know men a lot better than that.
Only a lawyer could have written the bit in relation to the boat.
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^^^^ B. stands for butthexingalldaylong
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The really interesting thing about it, and this is how I would have known they were both lawyers even without having been told, is that her writing style is more masculine than his. I actually think she’s not an eternal ingenue at all, but really an amazonian alpha. I’m not sure if this gives him any more hope though.
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Exactly right on the email exchange. Waaaaaaaaay too much talking. He was talking about things over email that he should have been talking about in person. In the initial stages of dating, email should only be used to set up a meeting in person.
Also never ask a chick anything like “Sooo, what do you like to do?” or “who are you?” Aside from sounding lame, those are things you’re supposed to be teasing out of her in the normal course of conversation. You’re better off asking something like, “If you found a $1 million cash in a suitcase, would you keep it? $10 million?”, or “What’s your super power?”
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Damn… I didn’t think the email dude was doing that bad. You sure laid into him though….
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in email too one word kinda sums it up
cockas
if you need 2 wite 2 then go ahead do as you please and wriote
“lotsa cokas!”
this simple method will save you lotta time with teh desouled bernankifed womenz and get you laid lots.
if you don’;t believe me i will take you on–you with your betaherb emailing log boring emails put her to sleep ways and money spending on her ways (lozlzlzl as beranke counts the cash you spend on chciks and leuaghs and prints more while you work for it lzozlzl) and me with my no money down text messaging ways lzozlzlz
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@walawala
This is actually very good but imo the bit in the brackets has to go. Brackets are for women. Also, never start a sentence with “But”. This is qualifying yourself before you start.
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@Jerry
I still think a lawyer at 7PM could be expected to have to reschedule
She could have put it back for an hour or two rather than cancelling entirely. Or at least offered to do so. I still don’t think she’s really interested. The difficulty is that she’s the one in charge of the entire conversation. If it were a dance, she would be the male partner. The gender roles are mixed up here (apart from the asking out, and really the asking out is way too diffident)
I agree he’s suffering from oneitis, and he’s too afraid of her flaking on him. He’s pussyfooting about too much. It is kind of ironic that he quotes the motto carpe diem because this is exactly what he should be doing, and isn’t.
I don’t think she actually offered to bake cupcakes by the way. In fact, I’m not sure cupcakes of the edible sort was meant at all. I think he might have lost points for missing that.
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More on one-itis: if you’re juggling at least 4 recent number closes, 2 budding relationships and an MLTR, you could easily handle 5 or 6 flakes from just an 8.5 without even noticing, much less getting bitter or worrying about having to appear alpha to just an 8.5 (when doing so means willingly delaying things on your part or walking away from something that could have closed with minimal marginal effort).
The lawyer arguably flaked only twice. That is too much for someone over 25 but par for the course dating 19 year olds. I would have barely noticed things and I’d have phoned and pin-dated her before Monday…but then only if the other women in my life did not have the weekend planned out.
Women want men to pin them down. It does no good to walk away from an opportunity even if you think she’ll think you are an alpha because you walked away. Good salesmen know to strike while the iron is hot. Cold calling later? A woman can go from being an 8.5 to being a 7.5 in six months. Waiting doesn’t make sense for men.
Pin her down…tell her on the date that you figuratively pinned her down…then tell her that you will soon be pinning her down literally. 😉
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@sdaedalus
Lol @ “Brackets are for women”… why is that? And who was using brackets? walawala or F?
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I’m with Willy wonka, but ch nailed that response. thx for that.
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CR, a condundrum; just reading Bang, and Roosh is anti-text, claiming you should call. You seem to be in favor of text.
Just trying to make sense of the gurus.
[ed: email is the worst, unless you are contacting a chick via an online service. i’m more positive on text than roosh but only as long as you adhere to certain rules. text is so universal that it no longer is viewed as a negative by women when men text to set up dates. still, i think the phone is the best for that last contact before meeting face to face.]
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@Jerry,
Actually, I’d say she only flaked once.. the only date she agreed to and flaked on was the 7pm one… the Saturday morning or whatever, she never agreed to, he asked, she had other plans, but even countered with, “I guess I’ll just have to impress you with my cupcakes then” to which got all flustered about.
He had plenty of chances on this…. I do believe he fucked it up when he waited to weeks to respond and hit her with
“ME (I reply after 2 weeks)
I don’t like cupcakes nor golf. Too bad.”
I don’t really get the point of that message at all…. Too bad for who? For you, because you’re not gonna get any pussy now?!?
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One thing I learned about today’s interactions with women: Do whatever is in your power to at least attempt to fuck close them the very same day. Any weak “nice guy” respect bullshit of only going for the number and then hope she will answer you in a couple of days for a date when you didn’t even attempt to push the envelope in your first interaction will likely result in a flakey behaviour.
Women are pretty much the new breed of men, they have other dude’s whom they call “friends” always around who end up fucking them. Because as a man or lack for a better words “A new cock” you are competing against “current cocks” you have to show her more then just a smile full of teeths.
As for the guy who met the lawyer this paragraph says it all:
“I started tenuously qualifying her. After maybe 5 minutes of interaction, she introduces me to some business associates of hers (she works for a law firm my firm does business with) and goes back talking to her other colleagues”
See right there is a major clue that the interaction was a failed one. A woman who is interested in you will at least give you a full 10 minutes to run your game on her in which point you either isolate her and go for the fuck close or if you can’t due to the circumstances of being with her friends, you take down her number and get the fuck out of the venue. Sticking around can only hurt your chances after you strike while the iron was still hot.
In this case not only did the woman not give you the time to give you the oppertuinty for the “sale pitch” she also went out of her way to introudce to you an interloper buffer cockblocker so she can return to speak to her friends. A simple indicators of low interest were evident here and no amount of emails (where she attempted to make peace with you because of her bitchy behaviour) is going to fix this.
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@GBFM:
I’m pretty sure Socrates was a butthexer
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about “F
If there isn’t a CR maxim about lawyer chicks, there should be. Do not date. Definitely do not marry. Wear a raincoat.
His emails are far too long. Among other things, they convey, “I’m not busy and I don’t have other women in my life”, especially when he is free both Friday and Saturday.
I disagree with Sdaedalus. In this case, cupcakes are cupcakes. She is gaming him, trying to show her feminine side with food.
Golf can be another test. It’s a daytime sport. I guarantee if they played Saturday, she would have had “other plans” that night – not with him.
Side benefit. You can learn a lot about a person’s character during a round of golf.
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@Puma – I have the same problem – I cannot reject a woman even when I simply have no time for her and her expectation that I am her official boyfriend really cramps my style. Things can drag on for years that way and living in another city or country only goes so far in helping keep the problem at bay. When women fall in love, they want it to be for life. I respect that too much. I would just prefer to grow myself a clone to fulfill that obligation, however.
CH is dead-on, of course, about not playing with emails before a first date. The guy could have phoned at any point in all that, preferably at the very beginning.
I also don’t see her as as the usual flake. I see him as the flake. She actually made the phone call the dude was too chicken to ever do. She was a lawyer who could be expected not to make it out of the office at the early hour of 7PM. He didn’t need to be overly-sensitive and react in a huff with “I don’t care”…which is the worst thing he could have said. He had the perfect opportunity to verbally close a date at a time when the busy lawyer got out of her office, and he chose to send a childish “I don’t care” message to her.
Closing dates is like closing sales. You don’t directly tell the customer you don’t care about making the close…even if they make flaky objections. You exhaust their objections and close.
Over-sensitivity on the part of the male was seen over and over again in that field report. Leaving the meeting scene too early because he falsely felt he was being slighted…etc
About the horseback riding excuse…by then both were flaking. But he didn’t really try to close after that. He assumed she needed to be punished by his not trying anymore to close. This is a misguided understanding of the advice not to “hover.”
Guys: The advice not to “hover” only applies to when a woman is deliberately turning her back to you (or blocking your calls/comms).
My advice: Keep going for the close. Don’t get sensitive and vengeful and don’t think being alpha means sacrificing the perfect slam dunk close in order to show your cool and don’t care so much.
I’d have rescheduled for when she finally got off work. I’d say “Want me to bring a pizza to your office” or something that would show that I *believed* her excuse. Acting like you believe the excuse says you are the type of guy that other women don’t lie to about being busy.
Because, believe me, women notice when you behave like you don’t really believe her excuse not to make it to a date. They will see the bitterness as beta.
Heck, I’d say “what if I canceled being on the boat with the guys and went horseback riding with you”. In the above case, it appeared more beta to keep letting the scheduling fall through than to take the bull by the horns and pin her down (which is what women want).
———
In the 9 and 10 range, flaking is to be expected. Pin them down on the 6th variant if 5 variants don’t work.
Last week I had a 20 year old literally stand me up 3 times in a row…then she met me for a long walk…then stood me up another time (except I didn’t go either because I predicted the flake), then meet me with her friend (another 10) for a long meal and lots of drinks (for them) in the VIP room of a disco.
While we were eating, I stated that “in payment for all the flaking that’s been going on this week, you *both* will be spending the night at my place…don’t worry, I have a king size bed.”
They ended up flaking out at Midnight (going home saying they would be back but they weren’t back an hour later) but then they called me at 2AM when I’d gone home to say they were coming over after all. I’ve never had so much fun with 2 women in my life. I am still in shock because they were both rare 10s. Life doesn’t get any better than that. And this was after being stood up 4 times in 3 days.
It is because I weathered the storm of flakes without getting bitter or appearing to lose my confidence that a relationship of some sort was going to happen.
Be a steady captain in the storm of flaky behavior you experience, especially from the youngest and best looking, and they will reward you…especially if you up the ante in terms of the reward you expect as payment for their flakes.
Just don’t “hover” when they really aren’t interested and rudely showing this.
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this email guy has entered into a pissing contest with that girl.
when a girl asks what are your plans this weekend- its a trap.
some men will brag, she may brag about her million and one fabulous plans; and when she asks what did you do this weekend? she is testing you.
unless you saw oh i took a quick trip to the Bahamas or Nantucket why bother.
She doesn’t want to hear -i drank and watched the game.- so you might as well say -i did so much crazy fun shit i am worn out.-
if she asks for details- don’t give them.
he is trying to impress her with his FULL weekends of horses, cars and flash- she is doing the same.
he needs to wait for her to email him.
All he needs to do on that next email is to get that number and then make direct plans to get her on a date through text.
No need to impress her or DHV and qualify himself to her at all.
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I used to do shit like this. And now I see why I fucked up. Too much banter, not enough mystery. Two lines completely changed the way I think about women and how I operate:
“Maxim #7: The sweeter and more innocent a girl seems, the greater the likelihood she has been in a gangbang.”
And…(this one’s for you GBFM!)
“Now, every time I look at or talk to a woman, I can’t help but think to myself, “Has she already sucked a dick today? How recent was her last migrant worker gangbang?” – Tucker Max
Now I’m not bitter OR too nice as I used to be (I see my old self in both of these guys). I accept reality for what it is – I don’t hate women, I don’t put them up on pedestals and I recognize that ALL girls will suck n’ fuck if the opportunity is right. The more I judge girls, the better off I am…I’ve found.
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@willywonka
Brackets are too diffident imo. They say, read this only if you want to, I’ve put it in brackets because it’s probably unimportant so you can skip over it. They work well for women, when emailing men, but not the other way round.
Basically, if it’s cute when a woman does it to you, avoid doing it back. Most men have no problem with this principle in face to face interactions but in emails & texts it is a different matter. Unfortunately, when in love people have a tendency to mirror. Men (and women) need to resist this tendency because it blurs gender lines & consequently attraction.
The brackets I was referring to were Walawala’s, but actually (another word a man should avoid) I read through F’s again and found a lot of brackets in the paragraph which would have been the biggest passion-killer for me, namely this one.
Tomorrow I am going with a few friends on a boat trip to XXX. Sea, Beach and (hopefully) sun… if you were to join me on a whim with such a short notice (vessel leaves at 10am sharp on pier 1, return in the afternoon) then I would consider you (on my scale), a robust 7, maybe even a probable 8. I would be more than impressed by your initiative, understanding and application of the spirit of the horatian carpe diem. Makes sense
This paragraph, in itself, is an object lesson as to how men should not write. Not one, not two, but three brackets. A reference to rating (guys have to be very careful about this, although reference to a woman’s rating can work on occasion, it takes a master hand). He couldn’t even be definite with the bloody rating either – indecision in a man is not good – it is like a guy who takes a girl out to dinner and agonises what to order. Plus, the rating was too high.
Also, the sentence is too long, it takes on a life of its own. Although run-on sentences, properly used by a woman, can coil their way round a man’s heart, men should keep their sentences short, and definite. Any man sending an email should read it through and say, what is not absolutely essential, and take it out. [Also, on a completely irrelevant side note, hyperbole should only be engaged in by men of considerable experience, otherwise it appears merely hysterical]
The Latin maxim is clearly put in in an effort to play Lawyer Game (love me, I’m a lawyer too). This poor girl has actually taken the trouble to specifically say she needs a break from the office, lawyer game is not going to work on her, rodeo game might have a better chance. Does she have to draw him a map?
Also, the only men who should use Latin maxims to women are the ones a woman wouldn’t expect to know them. Latin maxims and strangulated sentence structures from lawyers are too predictable. Play against type for maximum effect.
And to cap it all, the paragraph ends with the words “Makes sense”. Not only are these words superfluous, they are ironic in the context of a paragraph which doesn’t make any flipping sense at all.
In fact, there are so many errors that I can’t help wondering whether this paragraph is just too bad to be real.
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greatbooksformen is a tool…
makes me miss Mu’s long-winded expositions or Lurker’s occaisional rants on Mandy.
GBFM may have a flash of insight once in a while, as some in the comments seem to think… but who gives a crap when the guy is an annoying asshat?
it’s a shame, as the comments here were consistently of high quality and used to be worth hanging around to read…
B.
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CR’s advice was right on target for the e-mailer. … and I agree with ‘philosopher’ that her cupcakes were an attempt to show femininity, … so shes still into him at least somewhat.
He could salvage this by chilling with the writing back and forth and waiting for the next work happy hour… then follow almost all the advice above on this thread…. If there was no work link to this girl, I would say he’s lost his grip.
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@sdaedalus
Lol. Way to break it down for me. Yeah, that paragraph does suck and says too much… he could have just said, “I’m planning on going on a boat trip this weekend, want to come with?”
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@Philosopher
She is gaming him, trying to show her feminine side with food.
Of course she is gaming him (but remember women will do this with men they are not attracted to as well, just for practice). And yes, she is holding out food bait as part of this. But she is also flirting a little. He is not picking up on this. He could have run a little with the horse thing as well, but again it went right over his head. Women love to throw in these things and then act shocked when they are picked up on, this is part of the game. He is not playing the game here.
I completely agree with you about his emails being too long.
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PS I just want to emphasise that I am not condoning women gaming men they are not attracted to, but it does happen.
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Anonymous writes:
“greatbooksformen is a tool…
makes me miss My mom’s long-winded expulsions of buttdouche or Lurker’s occaisional rants on his jerker.
GBFM has aweome flashes of insight ll da time, as everyone in the comments seem to think… but who gives a crap about me when i am an annoying asshat with a tiny cockka?
it’s a shame, as my comments here were consistently of high quality and used to be worth hanging around to read… but now iwth the new GBFM competition i will stay in my single mom’s baesment mashing buttons in menaingless videogames as ben bernanke wants me to lzozll
B.”
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@Willywonka
I’d actually leave out the “I’m” but at least it is better than “I am”. There is a lot to be said for starting a sentence with a verb. Women like men who break the rules… of grammar. “Wanna come” would also be better.
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As for the the guy at the concert… He’s at an outdoor festival, have fun…. its all about self amusement.
What he said wasn’t that bad as long as he made it clear he was trying to be funny, or at least having fun.
He should have found her later on after she relieved herself and said literally anything, … he would have found out right away if its worth his time, and there’s a seed that can grow, or if she picked him out solely because he looked like he knew where the bathrooms were.
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For number #2….One thing I’ve picked up on from this board is keeping it short.
Also, rather than a huge email exchange, I would have added her to your Facebook or MSN.
It’s much more immediate and you can delete if it goes no where.
I had a girl flake on me…then I made the mistake of getting sucked into a long chat with her about whatever after she’d done it. Up to that point I’d been alpha with her in our interactions. But that was beta.
She never rescheduled and it was only when I took a huge step back, deleted her from my MSN, deleted her number and ignored her when I saw her in public that she began to take notice and the tension increased between us.
I’m now in the midst of reversing it but it’s more a long-term “project” to test out the various elements of game rather than a serious prospect.
Here’s my take:
Hi F,
Nice meeting you last night. Unfortunate that we didn’t get a chance to chat more, I turned around and you were gone – were you bored by my colleagues or just the pitch?
Cheers,
ME:
Well, to be honest, I was bored by both (but I admit I also had to run to meet some friends). Its ok, you can make it up to me by taking me for a coffee sometimes..under one condition: no shop talk Ciao
What I would have replied:
walawala: Zzzzzzzzzzzz….I’ll give you a chance to make it up to me. I know a cool place for caiprinhas. First round is on you…second round could get dangerous… Let’s meet Tuesday xxx at xxxx.
xxxx
This starts with a “neg”, then qualifies her [Make it up to me] puts you in charge “I know a cool place…[DHV] and then creates a little tension [dangerous] future projections “second round…” Also, you don’t ask, you make the plan.
If she would have changed the plans…I would have simply said, “Hey, no worries.”
On MSN it’s much faster. MSN game is much more popular at least here in Asia. People don’t normally talk on the phone for dates and chit chat….the Texting and MSN or Instant Messenger are more common.
If she would have flaked…I would have dropped it.
If I invest time in a girl and then she flakes, I’m more invested so I might try to reverse it.
But even then…you need to drop her for a few weeks before re-connecting.
MSN/IM game in Asia allows you to send “test messages” like “hey, what up?” if you get a response, you can chat…then set something up.
Read CH’s “Reviving a cold lead” post here. That’s worked for me.
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One more thing….
The exchange reminds me a lot of how Chinese girls banter.
The go direct…then indirect.
This was not a lost cause….but “F” …f-ed up.
I read this:
HER:
Sounds like a lot of fun (and thank you for the invitation) but I have horseback riding in the morning! I guess I’ll just have to impress with my cupcakes or something…do you golf by any chance?
ME (I reply after 2 weeks)
I don’t like cupcakes nor golf. Too bad.
HER (replies immediately):
Ouch going anywhere interesting for tomorrow?
I don’t get you F…she flakes…then drops the golf hint….
You could have replied with “I golf as long as you give free lessons….let’s go XXXX”
If she flaked again…you’d be out….
But the waiting 2 weeks and then ending it with “too bad”….sounds bitter not alpha.
“Just your luck…I’m a master at the driving range” or something….give her back something you’re physically good at doing and pitch it….
Typically these Chinese girls will make these suggestionds and wait for the guy to “man up” and take charge.
If you’re blowing her off….it stops being fun for them..
If you take charge and then she flakes…
You simply don’t respond….
I think you misread the cues on this totally.
She felt bad about the flaking….she was waffling.
You could have even called her on her waffling..
“Would you like some syrup with that waffle?”
This situation could have been reversed had you take ch’s advice.
But there are some pockets of opportunity that you could have seized if you were paying attention.
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Also….
“Chateau proprietors”
Somehow I don’t think the use of the plural here was an accidental typo.
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In his own mind, F was suffering from one-itis.
And, regardless of how much he *showed* he didn’t care, this is what did him in (remember that he literally rejected himself by giving up like he did). Because he and we know he did care too much.
And, if there is anything that CH points out, game is best when the man knows he is honestly not suffering from one-itis.
He was only dealing with an 8.5 – clearly over 25.
He needs a trip to Europe so he can internalize that the woman’s stats were really nothing special in a world where there are plenty of gorgeous young women who will date older guys. Once you’ve internalized this, you can go back to a place like New York and the women will KNOW you have a high standard (and a lack of one-itis) and you will do better there.
Where’s this dude’s account of the Columbia and NYU students he was simultaneously angling for dates or booty calls? It is because he wasn’t simultaneously working angles like this that he got the one-itis and failed (he failed by caring too much about appearing alpha and ended up being beta).
If he knew he was getting worse flakes from those who had better stats going for them, but still succeeding often enough with them, he wouldn’t mind pinning this one down without any worry to what might happen to his “ego” and any “game-playing” (different from game) on his part.
Go for the close. In wrestling the opponent will squirm out from under you 5 or 6 times before you pin.
Women want to be pinned to the wall when kissing even if they flake the first 5 or 6 times you go for the kiss and – the same way – they want to be pinned down to dates even if they make it hard to schedule. I still think a lawyer at 7PM could be expected to have to reschedule. He had no business acting like a baby and saying “I don’t care” when he could have believed her and worked with her…and upped the ante of what he expected in return for the trouble.
If a woman is not interested, she would not go through such an aggressive charade including offering to bake cupcakes.
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Hey, what happened to the “Dating Traps” post? There was a new (to me) guy commenting there, named “johnny five”, who was on fire. I hope he shows up on some other threads.
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Email game is tough, its really, really tough. I’ve found a couple keys to it.
1.Keep it short. If you write more than 250 words you are doing something wrong. Optimally you hit 50-100 words tops.
2. Be vague and slightly evasive about your hobbies or what you do. This trips the detective, there is nothing women love more than trying to figure things out.
3. Reframe, reframe, reframe. This goes well with vagueness. The joke/neg and ignore/qualify combos have worked well for me in the past.
4. You can’t make a mistake. Pretty much ever.
5. Never use emoticons or refer to emotions or feelings. If she ever asks about what I’m feeling, I say she must be into necrophilia because I’m dead inside, or something similar.
6. You can never forget what you are going for. Every email must have sexuality in it.
7. You need to tell her you are going on a date and when and where by email 3. (I like weekday after work or school, because they are looking forward to being done, and are in a relaxing and winding down mindset that they associate with you.
8. You need to number or msn close by email 2 or 3 or it won’t happen.
I once got a lesbian to agree to go on a date with me where she would be making me tea. The best part is her significant other forbade her to ever talk to me again because of the massive gina tingles I was causing. Email game can work, but its a blitzkreig not attrition.
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There was a new (to me) guy commenting there, named “johnny five”, who was on fire.
Yes, he was very good. Maybe he’ll come and join us on this thread?
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My observation of the email convo is that she was in a business sales role and never viewed him as anything but a client. even when he said i’ll meet you for coffee but “no shop talk” — that gets ignored by a salesperson. she was the one interested in seduction here, for the sake of business. she was more than happy to get more face time with him, regardless of whether the stated plan was “shop talk” or not. when she mentioned playing golf that was a pretty big tipoff. golf is business oriented and probably something she does often with prospective clients. she bailed the moment she realized he wanted to come on to her and was going to be a pain in the ass.
my guess is this guy deluded himself in thinking he had any chance from the beginning. there is zero indication she felt the slightest tingle.
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Seth
@GBFM:
I’m pretty sure Socrates was a butthexer.
yah seth but he didn’t tape it in secret without teh girls conthent lzlozllzlzl and coneverstive magaiznes didn;t celebrate secretive tapers of butthex back then lzozllzlz
butthex was not the point of socrates philosophy, whereas today it is teh end all be all of the neoocns bankrupting butthexing movement–tot ake down and destory and butthex tall taht is noble lzozl
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Johnny Five used to comment here a lot a year or so ago. Yeah, his comment in the recent thread rocked.
Hehe, Johnny also has the distinction of coming up with the name “Obsidian” to another cometer who used to comment here under an earleir name and wanted a new nickname.
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Email game can work, but its a blitzkreig not attrition
I think that’s a pretty good analogy for the beginner. Also, all your other advice is sound, and you’ve kept to it in your writing style. Obviously an expert doesn’t have to stick exactly to the rules though.
Although men’s emails to women should always be shorter and less formal than traditional letters, two guys who could wage a war of attrition by correspondence very well were Valmont, in Les Liaisons Dangereuses, and Lovelace, in Richardson’s Clarissa. A guy looking to progress to advanced email game (which, in fairness, is not really necessary for most male-female social interactions) could do worse than to read their letters.
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sdaedalus said:
“The really interesting thing about it, and this is how I would have known they were both lawyers even without having been told, is that her writing style is more masculine than his.”
maybe, but i know plenty of sales chicks who aren’t lawyers who will sound very masculine when they email at work in an attempt to sound professional. these same girls might be very feminine when their professional face is off. F never managed to get to her casual side.
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email is for giggling children lzozlzlzllzlz
i do not know the last time i talked to a chcik on the phone it is all down to three word texts now lzlzlzlz
like
i want u
i want some
come over
whatya doin’
you wan cocka
and sometimes when i am feeling verbose i write
you know ya wanna da cocka lzozlz
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actually Socrates is said to have abstained from the “butthex.” in the symposium, the much younger and better-looking agathon as well as alcibiades both come on to socrates, but he does not go for it. he just liked to go down to the gymnasium and admire the pure form of adolescent male beauty. that’s were the term ‘platonic love’ comes from.
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Email game is potentially a big win, if you are good at writing and thinking ahead — you can steer an email conversation better than an in-person conversation. But mistakes are deadly.
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@ahappinessexperiment
I agree with you, I think she is probably more feminine than she lets on, unfortunately she is scaring the hell out of him. Trying to compete with him as to alpha leisure activities is not exactly helping, even if an eternal ingenue in person she is definitely an Amazonian Alpha in her email correspondence.
People do pick up a particular email style from their work emails and it tends to carry over into social emails particularly when sent from a work setting. That’s one of the reasons I would be interested to know which of the emails were sent from work, it might explain the difference between his perception of her & the way she comes across in her emails.
I also agree that lawyers are not the only women with masculine work writing styles but they do tend to be the worst for this. Let’s just say that I would have strongly suspected that they were lawyers (the carpe diem was really the giveaway)
I agree with you by the way that part of the problem is that she is treating him like a work colleague. Women have to be careful to keep work colleagues at a distance, and it can be surprisingly difficult to stop doing this when we meet guys we are attracted to, particularly when we meet them in a work or or work-related setting.
I’m really not sure if she’s attracted to him or not, I suspect she is not really sure either but he is not exactly selling himself very well.
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PS @Ahappinessexperiment
I’ll give you a tip I picked up from a very smart guy.
If you are getting somewhat officious emails back from a girl you are emailing, and aren’t sure whether or not this is a sign of disinterest or her work email persona carrying over one way to find out is to time the emails so they arrive after she has left work, but so that she has time to reply to them that evening.
An email persona assumed for work purposes is less likely to carry over into such replies and you will get a more accurate picture. I had never thought of this before but when I looked at emails sent by me I did see a difference.
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lozlzzl when you think about it, this is what the fed has done to all teh pliospphy deparments
when you walk in there no longer do you hear about the nobility and sublimity of phislophy, but all you hear is
“bu-bu-bu socrates butthexed! tucker max butthexed. tucker = socrates!”
“bu-bu-bu socrates butthexed! tucker max butthexed. tucker = socrates!”
“bu-bu-bu socrates butthexed! tucker max butthexed. tucker = socrates!”
as ben beranke wires them fiat dollars to debauch the culture and currency all teh way on down lzozlzlz
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now for my negative comments about the concept of Game, which likely won’t be popular:
in the email convo, look at the big picture here. F wants to know where he went wrong, implying there was ever a moment he was on the right track. not that there’s anything wrong with hitting on a chick and finding out if you have a chance with her, but… this guy goes through all the trouble of writing this exchange to CR and asking him to analyse it. he seems to think he had a big fish on the line that got away, if only he had tugged at the right moment… “what should i have done differently?”
clearly the guy is a loser or he wouldn’t think such a pathetic, non-flirtation amounted to something worth mentioning to others.
then we receive actual analysis of the non-flirtation. “don’t use emoticons” etc. as if any of that shit mattered. why did the guy use emoticons? because he was desperate and hopelessly insecure and that feminizes a guy (or makes him bitter).
imagine that instead of saying all the wrong words he had said all the right ones. no, don’t imagine it, because it is impossible for that universe to exist. he was desperate and hopelessly insecure and that was going to evince itself in some shape or form, no matter how much Game he has studied, how many routines he has memorized, how many rules or maxims he has learned. “How can a man hide himself?” said Confucius.
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Let’s meet at x on y at z time.
If she says she’s busy and doesn’t offer a counter offer then she’s not interested enough, yet. If she agrees but flakes I say strike 1…but she has to make a counter offer or NEXT. The entire point here is to be direct about it and leading. Doing so puts the ball in their court and this is on purpose as you can the judge their response and interest/investment level
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Dear Chateau, I’ve got a girl who won’t stop fucking me. What am I doing rong?
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“Obsidian” to another cometer who used to comment here under an earleir name and wanted a new nickname.
But too late to avoid being called the above.
I miss him, though. I have come up with tons of other funny material, that can’t be used unless against the foil of another black dude who is proud of an extreme (even for black dudes) fat fetish.
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@GBFM, Tucker max is a loser whose movie flopped. Why are you obsessed with him? p.s., are you really Ross Jeffries?
[ed: wow, that would make some sense. or maybe r don steele.]
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That is why he was called “Obese-dian the ASS-trologer”.
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Reading that email exchange was painful. I agree that F blew himself out but I seriously doubt he had a chance to begin with.
This chick strikes me as a typical attention whore. She met the dude already, had spoken with him, and then pawned him off on strangers. Her email the next day was in response to her not getting the usual gushing “It was nice to meet you blah blah blah” before he left the venue.
He fell for the beta bait of getting sucked in to a lengthy exchange of written words instead of body fluids.
One of the only things my dad ever told me about women was that they ALWAYS do what they want to do. Had she wanted to meet up with him she would have making that email exchange irrelevant due to it never having happened.
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“Schmoe
@GBFM, Tucker max is a loser whose movie flopped. Why are you obsessed with him? p.s., are you really Ross Jeffries?”
yah i know but the great thing about him is that he pust a face on the noecon charlotte allen/weekly standard/ben beranke/goldman sax/max/sax/max/sax/max and priscilla painton at simon and shcuster lzozlzl
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^^^^^^ in poker we call this “tipping one’s hand” lzozlzlzl
tucker tipped the neocons hand and let the world know that what they’re really interested in is butthexing teh crud and crappola out of the culture and currency while sending our best to die on foreign shores in fiat wars lzozlzlzl
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That was a great analysis…as for me, I would have cut my losses and stopped emailing her after her first flake 15 min. before the date… I learned the hard way not to give women the satisfaction of letting them feel they got under my skin, he who angers you controls you….it’s all a powerplay, they seem sweet on the outside but it’S all a power play…
your analysis sounds a lot like IcebergSlim, that was one very informative post! I’m definitly gonna read this again and again.
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100% agree with Chateau’s analysis of F.
Personally, I would have called her out on all of her masculine activities, as well as the cupcakes. The cupcakes, which were possibly her way of showing her feminine side, were a weak offer at best. She can do better than that.
Also curious to hear if Chateau/others here would have written off business-related talk so quickly.
IMO, If she was pitching you as a client, that’s yet another thing that you could potentially use to keep the ball in your court and maintain control. Just curious what others here think.
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@GBFM, do you just text ‘cockas’ to your entire phonebook every now and then? If not, I think you should.
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hellyah that is the best way
just text “cockas” to everyone in your phone even the dudes as some of them will foreward it to their girl and get some and then owe you one lzozlzlzl
pay it forweard and give freely and ye shall receive
i promise you my brothers
while goldman sax and tucker max tax and take,
whiel they butthex all that is true,
listen to my words,
and ye shall be born anew
lzozlzl
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I’m relatively new here but enjoy the meister’s wisdom and the good commentary provided by some very sharp men and women. I’m older than most here and may be able to offer an opinion on occasion that comes from a middle aged man’s perspective. I’m too old to have picked up the texting habit, but years ago when I was slowly crawling out of the beta/omega swamp I developed a set of rules for myself about the use of that very dangerous medium, the answering machine/voicemail. I am the strong ,silent type and gents like me tend to improve their game as they get older. The natural seriousness of a man like me becomes more….well..natural, as one ages into the thirties and forties. I tend to say less than most and am not naturally jovial,and perhaps this is part of the reason that I learned that even a minor mistake in word choice, tone or inflection on a recorded message could do a lot of damage as it could be listened to multiple times by the recipient who could ferret out behavioral clues , sometimes subconsciously. I realized that with recordings I was not present to immediately play off of the reaction to anything I said like one does normally in a face to face conversation, and that is a bad position to be in when you are running game.. A weak voicemail can undo a lot of previously good gamework. In fact, it is my policy with women that I date not to leave voicemails. Early in a relationship I may leave very brief unemotional voice messages if needed to coordinate a phone call or meeting, but I quickly let the woman know that I don’t like voicemail (…..” it’s complicated”…) and I don’t dwell on this . I then call her when I feel like or as has been previously planned from the last meeting. If she does not pick up the phone by the fifth ring, I hang up. A woman quickly gets trained in this way and will always pick up your call. If the woman cannot answer because she is truly occupied, she will learn to call back as soon as possible and will explain why she was tied up. I also let it be known early that I do not make a habit of checking my voicemail and she cannot rely on communicating with me by that means to any significant degree. This also makes it easier for her to accept that I don’t spend a lot of time on the line with her and that I never discuss emotional topics etc. on the phone . It is merely a medium to arrange the next face to face meeting or slumber party. It works and saves me a lot a lot of trouble. It also takes my natural taciturnity and brings it to my advantage.
I know, you are thinking that the woman will test you by not answering etc. etc. No. The whole point is that you have made the phone/voicemail an unemotional medium that doesn’t get involved in the relationship. You’ll know from your face to face meetings whether it is working and you will end silly relationships a lot earlier. I think you younger guys would do well to think about this and see if it will fit your game, and consider the same ideas about texting.
Also, I cannot agree enough with Jerry who noted that if early in a relationship the woman flakes on you just before a date you should react calmly, and whatever you do, you must make it seem like you believe her excuse and have no experience with being blown off. This is particularly true as you get older, as there will be times when a busy professional woman truly has to cancel at the last moment because something happened at work etc. The best thing you can do is to sound mildly disappointed and offer to help her in a half-assed way like saying that since she cannot meet you for dinner , you are going to do XYZ instead but could meet her for coffee later. Do not let your words or the tone of your voice
make it seem that you have ever encountered or even conceived of the idea of being blown off at the last minute. If you know that you have been tossed, then of course it is over right then and do not call her again, but do not give her the satisfaction of thinking that you know she has gamed you.. If the woman truly has to cancel , but really wants to see you , then she will be paying very close attention to how you respond to the cancellation and you can score big points by handling it as described. I have even had the experience (during my long journey from betadom) of being called by women to blow off a date and basically have them crumble on the phone from the way I responded . Some quite literally started pursuing me when they saw this unexpected steak of alpha show through. I learned the hard way.
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i took great delight in learning about ‘mahout game’
not something i’d practice, though!
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Ahappinessexperiment hit the nail on the head. If analyzed via Occam’s razor, you must conclude: This “pick-up” was dead-on-arrival. She sized F up at the bar and gave him a beta rating, for sure. The girl put in her time talking with him – as any socially and career oriented person would – and then passed him off on her colleagues and beat a path out of there without looking back. Five minutes talking was all the sign that F needed to know where he stood – it’s long enough to be polite but not too long to let him get the wrong idea. No girl under the influence of a moist vagina will bail on an interaction…even in most business environments, nevermind a bar. That’s really all you need to understand this whole convulted mess of a situation.
F, incorrectly interpreted her email contact the next day as a sign of interest. To be fair, i think a lot of guys would make that mistake. I don’t think it’s clear what her intentions were with the email. It could have been a networking manuever or maybe she was just feeling him out. Perhaps at the bar, instead of a beta rating, she put him in a “maybe, we’ll see” category and wanted to test the waters. If that was the case, F was quite deft in removing her doubts as to where he stands on the omega-alpha continuum. In his beta eagerness to get laid, he jumped all over her email as an opportunity to land a date. He tries twice for a weekend meet-up and she skillfully side steps him both times. This is followed up with him trying to play it cool and aloof and coming off as bitter and manipulative.
I think he should have disqualified himself to her right away when she contacted him through email. He should have been the one to try and steer the interaction to a business neutral tone – not her. If he’s even remotely attractive to her, it’s going to create tension for her: if she is attractive, she’s going to wonder “why is this guy not coming on to me?” Had he done that, had he setup a meeting under the guise of networking or some business related activity, she would have attended. He could have suggested golfing together – and he would’ve had hours on the course to neg, qualify, dhv and raise his social value to a level where the 19th hole would been played out on the manicured grounds of her beaver instead of the bar. Most girls suck at golf – even the ones who are supposed to be good. Spending the day with her ripping off 30 yrd drives and 5 putting every green, the negs and cocky funny situations would endless. He missed an opportunity.
Disqualify, neg, dhv = attraction. Sit back and let the girl chase, which she will “IF” you’ve done those three things correctly. Mystery covered this thoroughly in his book.
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@sdaedalus
Lol. “Women like men who break the rules… of grammar”
That just sounds silly, but I phrased it and used the grammar I did, because we were talking about emails. I never actually email a chick, but yeah… in a txt, I would always use “wanna” instead of “want to”… lol
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Speaking of what did I do wrong:
The Democratic Party’s number one beta-male, Al Gore, has announced he is (amicably) separating from Tipper.
Meanwhile, after physically interviewing more candidates than the casting director of “The Search For The Next Pussycat Doll,” Bill Clinton and Hillary are still married (although to call it a marriage might be stretching the truth from Boston to Baghdad.)
Are the fiat bankers behind this one?
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Cannon,
Oh, we, as a duo, were selected, out of tens of thousands of comments, to be featured in a main article here, when we ascertained that if black men were more selective about female beauty, the average woman in America (all races included) would be 2 points higher in looks, due to being 5 points lower in BMI.
1s would be 3s, 4s would be 6s, and 6s would be 8s.
One black dude keeps 3 women (1 black, 2 white) fat.
Skin texture (of black women) is harder to measure – at what ‘Schwartzchild Radius’ (many puns here – haha!) of BMI does the ratio of mass to surface area become high enough to roughen black female skin…..
Only Obese-dian the ASS-trologer (ASS-tronomer?) would know…
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So I re-read the E-mailer’s correspondence and his intro with a closer eye. Some of the later comments are right….. that girl is def a saleswoman. He’s got zero shot, shes just hustlin him for his business.
The interest signals she gives off may look like the real thing, but its fools gold.
Not to say it was impossible when he first met her with proper game… but he never had the shot he thinks he had.
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“F, incorrectly interpreted her email contact the next day as a sign of interest. To be fair, i think a lot of guys would make that mistake.”
No, only fools. Read this sentence carefully:
“After being introduced by a mutual acquaintance we start chatting and i immediately steer the conversation into non business related matters, completely skipping the “what do you do” thing, and specifically teasing her in this respect, asking her to stop pitching her business to me (we just swap cards) and started tenuously qualifying her.”
Somehow in his mind he views the fundamental situation as “being introduced by a mutual acquaintance in a bar” and elides over the reality: she was pitching her business.
Then the first email from her: “were you bored by the pitch?”
She was a typical salesperson who obtained a business card and followed up with an email the next day, hoping for a chance to re-pitch. What dude thinks this is an expression of sexual interest?
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His emails are all too try-hard. I’m frquently guilty of this, so I’m not casting aspersions.
I just can’t believe how many chances she gave him. A better response would have been:
It’s nice to hear from you. Email sucks. Meet me at x bar at x time (after 7:00). Yes?
If she says she’s busy, then:
When can you meet?
*NOT* “is there a good time.”. Take that part for granted.
I think dude’s biggest problem here is that he spent too much time pussyfooting around the final all-in, call, poker-metaphor-of-choice. He was afraid of the “no.”.
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hey asstards
i luv yous guys but i gottas remind you of something
sure getting your helmet wet once a year is a good thinga nd i recommend it highly lzozlzlzl
but there are greater things at hand lzozlzll
(not in your hand, but at hand in teh metaphorical sense lzozlzlzlzlzl!)
for isntance even if you game 10 chix into your bed and do thenm doggy hoogyy and dirty sanchez and two or three at a time while you spit rhymes–even if you dod all this teh divorce rate will be up over 50% lzozlzlzl and kids will grow up abused and parentless because of this and the state will grow and teh enocns wil bankrupt us all via secrtiev tapings of butthex without the girls conthent
so game on game on, but keep in miund that the ultaimet gioal is not only getting your cokec sucked that is a neocn goal liek tucker max, but keep in mind that the great goal is resurrecting teh iromatic ideals that chralotte allen and prsicilla rage against by funding and publicizing tucker’s lies and oduche lzozlzlzl
just want you guys to keep it all in perspective as u are my borthers now lzozlzlzl
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@WillyWonka
That just sounds silly, but I phrased it and used the grammar I did, because we were talking about emails. I never actually email a chick, but yeah… in a txt, I would always use “wanna” instead of “want to”… lol
It is indeed silly, but I think that a lot of men would be well advised to write their emails first in text form & then decide exactly how more formal they want to make them.
I think this guy got way too formal, some of the emails were like a philosophical dissertation with clauses and sub-clauses all over the place.
I’m not sure why breaking the rules of grammar works better, but perhaps it is because it gives the impression that not too much trouble has been taken in preparing the email, also, no kidding, women like guys who break the rules a little.
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Jerry,
Some really good advice in your post.
“She was a lawyer who could be expected not to make it out of the office at the early hour of 7PM. He didn’t need to be overly-sensitive and react in a huff with “I don’t care”…”
Exactly. he looks insecure, weak and bitter, She probably really was working late. He disqualified himself as unsupportative in what is no doubt a common circumstance for her.
“I’d have rescheduled for when she finally got off work. I’d say “Want me to bring a pizza to your office” or something that would show that I *believed* her excuse.”
I do believe her excuse and think that bringing a pizza would again have shown support. I once cancelled a date early in my relationship with my husband due to a nasty summer cold. He showed up a few hours later with a basket of “sick girl” goodies. I really appreciated the help and caring.
“Heck, I’d say “what if I canceled being on the boat with the guys and went horseback riding with you”.”
Much better than asking her to go out on a boat with him and a buch of strange guys. That sounds like an invitation to a gang-rape. And that maybe why she turned him down.
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Obviously an Advanced Emailer doesn’t need to do anything as obvious as breaking the rules of grammar to get a girl interested, but to get to this stage requires a natural talent for writing and considerable practice.
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“She was a typical salesperson who obtained a business card and followed up with an email the next day, hoping for a chance to re-pitch. What dude thinks this is an expression of sexual interest?”
Betas. In my beta days I was desperate for female attention so getting an email from a woman would light off the butterflies. A failure mode of some men is thinking they can turn contact with a woman into sexual contact. Mystery and others have it right – you need to start with the attraction building from the word go, or you are mentally LJBFed.
LJBF – let’s just buttf*** with the neocons?
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J
As one girl to another I do think that the pizza would have been a bit much, it would have been too pushy in the circumstances and would have put her off.
She could have arranged to meet him later. Even lawyers do not work all night. He was already showing too much interest imo.
I did not think about the gang-rape point, clearly I am more innocent than I realised. But she could have suggested an alternative venue, or maybe arranged to meet hi after the sailing. That is what most girls would do if they were attracted to a guy but didn’t want to put themselves at risk in case he turned out to be a baby psychopath in training.
If a woman is attracted to a man, and he indicates interest, and that he wants to meet up with her, she will meet up with him come hell or high water, just in case another woman might get him first.
This girl is just not acting like a woman who is attracted. I appreciate that she may be in the “maybe” stage but the answer to this is not to keep asking her out by email, this clearly is not working.
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And J, you were already going out with your husband when he turned up with the basket of goodies. In this case, they’re not even dating. I feel it would be way too much, and would either encourage her to take advantage of him or (if she were a nicer girl) send her scurrying in the opposite direction.
Particularly as she is a lawyer, she would smell weakness. Although female lawyers may thaw out of the office, it’s best when romancing them to keep away from their work environment as much as possible, it tends to bring out their cranky side. The work-play dynamic is far too interrrelated between these two already. Next you will be suggesting he get a job in her firm to keep an eye on her.
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Texting is where it’s at.
On any given weekend, you should get hand fulls of phone numbers.
Send mass texts out. The same thing: “Drinks tonight?”
See who answers.
Make plans with multiple chicks. Some of them will flake. Then you flake on some.
Few women are worth a phone call. No woman you just met is important enough for a call.
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A guy using emoticons is trying too hard. It’s kind of like explaining a joke. Counterproductive.
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The hate of GBFM is revealing. GMFM is a visionary. He wants to change society.
Most of us just parasites. We recognize the decay of Western Society, and we suck the last life blood from it.
We create nothing. We are basically no different from Wall Street bankers.
We see the sexual marketplace, and take our cut of pussy from it. We do not add any value.
It is good that GBFM is trying to change our thought processes – to think beyond our parasitic ways.
GBFM is the only man of virtue who regularly comments.
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Indeed.
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“As one girl to another I do think that the pizza would have been a bit much, it would have been too pushy in the circumstances and would have put her off. ”
Then maybe something smaller. It’s not so much the pizza but his willingness to offer support rather than distrust.
“She could have arranged to meet him later. Even lawyers do not work all night. He was already showing too much interest imo.”
I know lawyers who pull all nighters. Maybe she was concerned abolut having to cancel twice in one night.
“I did not think about the gang-rape point, clearly I am more innocent than I realised.”
Well, that’s the advice my dear old alpha thug daddy gave me when I wanted to go boating with a new guy and some of his friends. In general, during my dating years, I liked to meet guys in public places that I could leave easily if creeped out or even bored. I also avoided anything that involved a guy spending a large amount of money on me, so as to avoid his feeling that he was owed something. My idea of an ideal first date is a zoo or museum. Cheap, public and nothing to do but get know each other.
“But she could have suggested an alternative venue, or maybe arranged to meet hi after the sailing. That is what most girls would do if they were attracted to a guy but didn’t want to put themselves at risk in case he turned out to be a baby psychopath in training.”
True, if his bitterness wasn’t creeping her out. I think she was trying to get together and that his unremitting bitterness was really off-putting to her.
“If a woman is attracted to a man, and he indicates interest, and that he wants to meet up with her, she will meet up with him come hell or high water, just in case another woman might get him first.”
Depends on how attracted she is and how confident she is. If she is an 8.5 ingenue as F describes she’s in no hurry.
“the answer to this is not to keep asking her out by email, this clearly is not working.”
True, whatever he does next should be more intimate, more confident and more friendly.
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“Texting is where it’s at.
On any given weekend, you should get hand fulls of phone numbers.
Send mass texts out. The same thing: “Drinks tonight?”
See who answers.
Make plans with multiple chicks. Some of them will flake. Then you flake on some.
Few women are worth a phone call. No woman you just met is important enough for a call.”
Exactly.
I do better in texts than talking over the phone. Too many opportunities to fuck up over the phone and too time consuming.
Just make sure to keep the texts short and to the point.
If I want to talk, I do it in person where I can see the girl’s body language.
Plus, chicks (at least young ones) seem like texting more. It gives them time to think about responses and seems more flirty.
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yah mike thanks!!
pretty much all the rest of you assfucks are missing my points and spirit of my thrust lzozlzllzllz thrust thrust thurst (not in teh anus like tucker max)
you assfucks are slwo on teh uptake
i use tcuker max as a mask to characterize the soul of charlotte allen, whjo repeates tucker max’s pr lies and calls him a cuccess in teh pages of the weekly standard, while priscilla painton at the neocon’s simon and schuster publishes him lzozlzzozlzlozzlzl
now if you assfucks were more interested in doing something meaningful with life, as opposed to getting your tiny cocks touched which is what the enocns want, you would recgnize that
charlotte allen
and
prisiclla painton
represent the necons control of teh culturlal conduits lzozlzlzlz
and what gets through is that butthex and seceretive tapings of butthex without the girls conthen t makes a short docuhebag failure a six foor tyall successful filmmaker lzozlzlzl who deserved hundreds of thosuands of fiat dollars
if any of you were man enough, instead of attacking me, you would pen letter to charlotte and priscilla and miriam and ask them to please stop funding secretive tapres of butthex and promoting them and repeating tehir lies as they are deousling the girls of your generation by asscoking them lolzlzlzlzl
unless you guys want pre-asscoked girls raising your children lollololzz
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I agree with ahappinessexperiment, the chick only ever viewed F. as a potential business prospect and used his interest to string him along. “pitch” and “golf” the keywords that give the whole thing away. And the first guy never really had a chance. Hard to hold a girl’s attention or get her sexually interested when all she wants to do is pee. Accompanying her to the port-a-pot sort of bad too, following her around like a puppy. A little too obvious and supplicating.
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Sdaed,
“And J, you were already going out with your husband when he turned up with the basket of goodies.”
I think we’d gone out twice at this point, but I do underdstand your point. He could have looked weak and desperate, but he just isn’t a weak and desperate guy. It didn’t come off that way. He looked secure enough to not be paronoid about being dumped, caring enough to take help me and un derstanding enough to still be attracted to my my red-nosed face.
BTW, this past weekend was the 23rd anniversary of our first date.
“I feel it would be way too much, and would either encourage her to take advantage of him or (if she were a nicer girl) send her scurrying in the opposite direction. ”
You make me feel old. 😉 Back in my day (Imagine old loady voice here.), smart women liked nice men, or at least eventually figured out after a few heartbreaks that nicer was better and not necessarliy “beta.”
“Particularly as she is a lawyer, she would smell weakness.”
Some of my best friends are female lawyers–all married, all moms, all really nice women out of the office. Maybe DC is different from my locale.
PS: I love Joyce.
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All–There are appararent two different people posting as “J” here. The comment at 4:41 is not me.
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‘anhedonic’, a top-five ch word
Multiply that unreceptiveness tenfold if she’s turtling.
but PA told me girls don’t poop!
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As a poster said already, the chick sounds like she was more interested in selling buddy some law firm services rather then spreading her legs for him. Too much BS in the emails. The reason why this is a problem is that he has nothing else on the go. Spin more plates. Good Luck!
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This slut on AFF was interested in me, the problem was I will fuck anything and wasn’t all that interested in getting her pic right away. This was a mistake, and I should have asked for her pics right from the get go, to show her my status, and that I wasn’t a “desperate loser who will fuck anything.”
It’s all bullshit anyways. American women for the most part all over value their pussy, and I’m supposed to game these lame bitches? I have said before, and I’ll say it again, game is great for good looking guys or bad ass dudes, but for your average guy no amount of game is going to get them prime pussy in this hypergamous wonderland known as America. And I sure as hell am not going to game 5’s and 6’s just so I can get their depressingly average pussies to tingle.
I don’t know which is worse, the suck up beta’s bitches who tell all our average lame women how great, sexy, and beautiful they all are, or the guys who take the the time to game these women. It’s all to depressing to think about.
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^^^^^
lozlzlzl i agree andrew
“I don’t know which is worse, the suck up beta’s bitches who tell all our average lame women how great, sexy, and beautiful they all are, or the guys who take the the time to game these women. It’s all to depressing to think about.”
too many wnato to paly the game
as opposed to right the rules
the neocns have spent trillions on eradictaing the classical truthful rules lzozlzlzl
they will destory anyone who speaks out agisnt butthex and secretiev tapings of butthex without the girl’s conthent,. as that is the money master’s litmuth testhst lzozlzl
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Yeah lolzzzllllllllllllll dude, when this country finally hits rock bottom hopefully Bernanke, Paulson, and the rest of these lame fucks will all be strung up and hung by their pre-pubescent sized testicles.
Running your country into massive debt, and giving feminists a loud voice seem like great ways to watch your country crash and burn.
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are you man enough to speak up for your womenz honor?
This is a good point. When watching a porno today, I could see it in the girl’s eyes that she felt dishonored. That used to sting me. I felt guilty watching a woman being exploited.
Now….Not so much.
Society has changed. I see an “exploited” women and think, “She is probably trying to get some guy to knock her up, so she can cheat on him, rape him in divorce court, and fail to take care of his children.”
Because of our culture, most women simply want a man’s sperm and a paycheck.
Yet females can attain a noble position. It requires a strong male influence. Women are forever in a child-like state. They are malleable by culture even as adults. When men controlled the culture, women reached a form of nobility.
Now that feminism rules the culture, women are ignoble.
This doesn’t make me happy. It doesn’t change my behavior. Reality, as the cliche goes, is what it is.
GBFM has a bigger vision. He would say, “Mike, just because reality is what it is does not mean that you shouldn’t fight to change it.” While GBFM is lolzlolzol on the outside, he is sad-like-a-wise-man on the inside. “With wisdom comes woe,” a great book said.
My approach is a hybrid. I bang skanks without any remorse or guilt. I also attempt to reform culture by educating men about their duty to live a life of honor.
It is possible to be a player and a reformer. The benefit of my approach is that even if I fail, I got a lot of pussy throughout the process – a very nice booby prize, indeed.
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rickitarr said without apparent irony:
(wall of text)… I tend to say less than most …(wall of text)
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Andrew S – “but for your average guy no amount of game is going to get them prime pussy in this hypergamous wonderland known as America.”
Believe it or not, Game really does work. When I was stateside, used it to land quite a few 7s and 8s.
You have a point though about the 9s and 10s – I reckon you need more than just game to land them – probably some combo of fame, money, looks or power.
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Why does gbfm lisp every time he attempts to say “consent”?
Also, “asscoking” is a highly evocative term for those familiar with 12 and 16 oz. Coke bottles.
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well spoken mike!
yah yah i’m not so sad on the inside mostly i am lzozlzlllzlzlzl but ask not for whom teh bell toilols it tolls for thee
and yah women can be chaste abnd vuirtuous and kind and givingbut only if taught how by a man
otherwise, left to tehir own devices as charlotte allen and prsicilla painton demonstrate, they celebrate butthexers and sodomites and reward and promote and fund and rpeat the lies of butthexers and sodomites as oppsoed to say talkng about plato homer russell krik edmiund burke lzozlzlz.
yah mike
the thing to remember about porn is
taht whil yes many men watch it and more men tahn women watch it
byr far more more more more woemn PERFORM porn by choice
funny how they try to pass teh vice onto men saying men objectify women, never passing judgment on teh women who got done on all fours by her choice and took money for it
which is worse?
the obeservor or teh one taht takes action and does it?
certaily one cannot argue that the observer is worse and teh actor is morally superior lzozlzlzl
but taht’s what the neocns do. lzozlzl
as tehy are forever trying to subvert and take and tempt so as to convert baseless fiat debt into power and physcial property lzozllzlllz
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yah yah mike
i also agree that most womenz have no honor left 2 defend
i was reaching out to the high schoolers here who might some day rise to keep the owmen from getting assocked with teh asscocker butthexers celebrated in the neocn media.
the necons know that men especially teenagers can fall easily to temptation whcih is why the sluttify little girls so that teenagers will get bored quickly with sex and desentiztised and take to asscocking at which point tehy get vast fiat advances and teh neocns clap their hands lzozllzlzlz.
we live in a worl which is a cross between 1984 animal farm and brave new world lzozlzlzl it is as if the neocns read thjsoe books and went “yes! yes! that is how it mustbe done! lzozllzllz! but to it all –to teh tyranny and doubblespeak all we will add butthex and secrteive tapings of butthex without the girlths’ conthent!” lolzlzlzl
orwell wrote that if you wnat to picture teh future of humanity picture a boot stamping on a human face forever. lzozlzl
the neocns improved upon this. if you wnat to picture the future of humanity, picture tucker max’s cock stamping on a girl’s anus while he tapes it in secreta and bernake/painton/allen all celebrate and clap tehir hands lzozlzlzlz
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E-mail dude shows why alpha is a mindset:
“Look, some chick wants a piece of me. I don’t want a piece of her. I don’t need to share my life story with some whore. If she wants to learn about me, she can work for it. It will be worth it, because I’m fascinating. I’m so interesting that getting me to talk about myself is a challenge. After all, I’m too busy doing cool stuff.”
Instead, the e-mail dude was like a clown performing an act. So insecure. DYING to reveal his soul to some random cock slut.
That’s a beta mindset. Why are you so desperate to share everything about yourself? Because you don’t have anyone else to talk to?
CH was far too nice to the guy.
Remember the alpha mindset: “Why should I talk to you?” The rest will follow.
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By the way, that would make an interesting post : “The limits of Game”.
Because, I’ve found from my own experiences, and those of my friends, that 7s and 8s can be won now, (largely due to reading here and the Mystery Method); but the 9s and 10s are as elusive as ever.
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“This slut on AFF was interested in me, the problem was I will fuck anything and wasn’t all that interested in getting her pic right away. This was a mistake, and I should have asked for her pics right from the get go, to show her my status, and that I wasn’t a “desperate loser who will fuck anything.”
It’s all bullshit anyways. American women for the most part all over value their pussy, and I’m supposed to game these lame bitches? I have said before, and I’ll say it again, game is great for good looking guys or bad ass dudes, but for your average guy no amount of game is going to get them prime pussy in this hypergamous wonderland known as America. And I sure as hell am not going to game 5′s and 6′s just so I can get their depressingly average pussies to tingle.
I don’t know which is worse, the suck up beta’s bitches who tell all our average lame women how great, sexy, and beautiful they all are, or the guys who take the the time to game these women. It’s all to depressing to think about.”
LOL! This is the funniest comment in this thread. Good job.
Yeah, unfortunately most women in the USA are 5’s & 6’s. I blame the obesity epidemic since there are WAY too many chubby chicks here, and the problem only seems to be getting worse.
If more women were on diets and got thin, then there would be far more 7’s (certifiably cute girls).
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sdaedalus:
Maybe he’ll come and join us on this thread?
i’d love to, dear, but the moderation engine is putting up a spirited anti-slut defense.
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“By the way, that would make an interesting post : “The limits of Game”.
Because, I’ve found from my own experiences, and those of my friends, that 7s and 8s can be won now, (largely due to reading here and the Mystery Method); but the 9s and 10s are as elusive as ever.”
Real 7’s (cute) and 8’s (pretty) girls aren’t that easy to get. These types of girls in the USA have a lot of suitors.
For me, it is a combination of looks and game that allows me to get these girls.
As for 9’s (very hot) and 10’s (female perfection) girls, there just aren’t enough around to game.
I mean, I don’t exactly get invited to a lot of parties where model-type girls hang out.
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i’d love to, dear, but the moderation engine is putting up a spirited anti-slut defense.
That is terrible. But I thought it was just women who were sluts? Shouldn’t that be “anti-alpha”?
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sdaedalus:
But I thought it was just women who were sluts? Shouldn’t that be “anti-alpha”?
does my baby oil come from babies, or should i rub vegetable oil on my vegetables when their skin gets dry?
you should be thrown over the nearest waist-level object and whipped for this level of pedantry.
besides, consistency is a beta trait.
my comment overcame the last minute resistance.
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– Jayz – “Real 7′s (cute) and 8′s (pretty) girls aren’t that easy to get. These types of girls in the USA have a lot of suitors. ”
Agree with you that they’re not easy targets – even though I’m not living in the States these days. But I found that game was extraordinarily useful in their pursuit.
“As for 9′s (very hot) and 10′s (female perfection) girls, there just aren’t enough around to game.”
They’re not exactly common here either. But on the rare occasion I’d meet a 9 (only twice ever met a 10), I find myself in the exact same position as I was pre-game.
“I mean, I don’t exactly get invited to a lot of parties where model-type girls hang out.”
If I had a time machine, I’d get a job in the fashion industry or somewhere where there’s loads of 10s and minimal male competition.
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lozlzlzllz
all you buttboyz butthexfanboy at some point have gotta choose
are you man enough to speak up for your womenz honor?
shouldn’t you care that your future wife is getting asscoked and butthexed? what kind of man doesn’t care that hsi future wife is getting asscocked and butthexed other than men like prsiclla painton and cahrlotte allen lzozlzlzllz.
do you want a world of bigger government more butthexing more dumbing down and drugging up and more deosuling of women and prima noctes asscokers asscoking them future wives funded by the neocns fiat dollars which are augmenting your teax burden less borders lzozlzlllzzlzo and more abortions adding onto teh 50,000,000 ripped from wombs all you fanbuttboys?
lozzlllzlzlll wahahahah whahahahah whaahhah “how do i send an email?” h”how long whould it be? so i can get my helmet wet'” wahahaah whahahah ahwhahahahah
and meanwhile fatherhood and manhood are debauched and destroyed zlozlzlzlz
not one of yuou is man enough to come out of your mom’s bvastement and improve teh world lzozlzl
http://www.stephenbaskerville.net/
“The terror of the divorce regime is not a future possibility; it is a present reality. The following methods are currently employed by family courts and other government agents. These practices are now widespread in America:
* mass incarcerations without trial or charge
* forced confessions
* children forcibly separated from parents who are under no suspicion of legal wrongdoing and parents stripped of the care, custody, and companionship of their children without explanation
* government agents entering the homes, demanding and examining private papers and personal effects, and seizing the property of citizens who are under no suspicion of legal wrongdoing
* official court records, including hearing tapes and transcripts, doctored and falsified with the knowledge of court officials and evidence fabricated against the innocent
* defendants denied the constitutional right to face their accusers
* bureaucratic police authorized to issue subpoenas and arrest warrants against parents, with no hearing and contrary to due process of law
* special courts created specifically to process parents for political offenses
* forced labor facilities created specifically for parents
* children instructed to hate their parents with the backing of government officials
* children forced by government officials to act as informers against their parents
* children abused and killed with the backing of government officials
* knowingly false allegations, for which no evidence is presented, accepted as fact without proof, overturning the presumption of innocence, and not punished when demonstrated to be untrue
* parents ordered by government officials to separate from their spouses, on pain of losing their children
* parents forced to pay the private fees of court officials they have not hired and whose services they have not sought or used, on pain of incarceration
* parents suspected of no legal wrongdoing punitively stripped of their property and income, sometimes at gunpoint, and reduced to penury
* government officials using the mass media to vilify private American citizens, and political leaders using their offices as platforms to verbally attack private American citizens, who have no right of reply or opportunity to defend themselves
* parents jailed without trial reportedly beaten, in at least one case fatally, and denied medical attention while in police custody.
I have made these charges in some of the most reputable publications in the English language. They have never been refuted. Yet neither have they been corrected or even addressed by public officials, the media, or academics.”
–http://www.stephenbaskerville.net/
and all teh buttboyz stay in tehri simgle mom’s basements mashing buttons lzozlzlzllllz
they cry, “wahahahah whahahahah please ban GBFM please make him stop please oh please oh please i hate thhinkng about freedom and liberty and truth and ebuaty liek a amn! please make hime go away so we can remain fanbuttboyz in our single mom’s bastemsnt worshipping tucker max and marveling at hsi sectrive tapings of butthex iwthouty the girl’s conthent! whahahahah!!!”
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BTW, this past weekend was the 23rd anniversary of our first date.
That is so lovely. Congratulations.
Btw I think your email reply makes good points but:-
(i) she cancelled too often (I do appreciate that lawyers occasionally do pull all-nighters, but this wasn’t the only occasion on which she cancelled)
(ii) if she’s taking her time, because she feels she has plenty of options, then she’s not yet attracted to him in the first place. No matter how many options a woman has, she never likes to let the chance of a date with a man she is definitely attracted to slip away, if only out of curiosity as to whether or not he might be “the one”. At best, I would say that she has not decided whether or not she is attracted to him, this means that he’s going to have to work very hard to increase the attraction, and it may well be too late.
Smart women did like nice men, or at least eventually figured out after a few heartbreaks that nicer is better and not necessarliy “beta.”
No reason why this should be in the past tense in my view. You should come and comment on this over at
http://seasonsoftumultanddiscord.wordpress.com/2010/06/01/the-dirty-little-secret/
this is what I have been trying to say to the guys over there. You could probably make the point more effectively than me, the fact that you have been married for 23 years would help. Yes, some of us do need a few heartbreaks (or, at least, the experience of watching our friends or family go through heartbreaks) to figure it out.
Some of my best friends are female lawyers–all married, all moms, all really nice women out of the office. Maybe DC is different from my locale.
I’m about 5000 miles east of DC. But yes, nice female lawyers do *ahem* occasionally exist outside DC, although they can be cranky on occasion if under pressure.
PS: I love Joyce
Me too. Lovely talking to you btw.
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Cap’n Bob,
“The Limits of Game” is exactly the theme of Gorbachev’s recent extensive comments. He is trying to prove a 6.5 can game a 9 into bed and a relationship, and he’s getting awfully close.
Really you are missing a key variable. What matters is RELATIVE rating.
If relative to you the woman is:
-3 you don’t notice her
-2 she gives constant IOIs, you approach her with dominance
-1 you usually get IOIs and approach with confidence
0 you sometimes get IOIs and are comfortable approaching
+1 you get IOIs once in a while and approach with some nervousness but can still handle yourself
+2 you need game to get her attention at all
+3 without wealth, fame, or an escort at least as hot as she is, you are invisible to her
Gorby is working at the bleeding edge, -2.5.
Note: if you are a real master at game and the girl is unsophisticated you can manage +4 or +5, if you’re willing to devote yourself to it including moving to a receptive society (in the USA there aren’t any unattached 9’s who are unsophisticated); see: xsplat).
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“If I had a time machine, I’d get a job in the fashion industry or somewhere where there’s loads of 10s and minimal male competition.”
that’s a very good point. when i was younger i once had a retail job where my co-workers tended to be attractive girls and the guys tended to be homos. the sex-ratio itself made my life easy. now i work in an industry i almost never meet an attractive girl in, which makes things much more of a pain in the ass.
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“If I had a time machine, I’d get a job in the fashion industry or somewhere where there’s loads of 10s and minimal male competition.”
Right on.
I once met a photographer in LA who worked in the fashion industry. The dude was telling me how he banged 9’s and 10’s all the time.
I was like: “Sure, buddy (big ol’ heap of sarcasm), you bang them all the time.”
This offended him so much he busted out his cell phone and showed me pics of him with hot chicks.
I suddenly felt 10 inches shorter cuz I got owned.
The reality is looks matter, but not as much as they matter for a woman.
You just need to meet their minimum standards for attractiveness.
Game, money, status, etc. make up for the rest.
I mean, model chicks have to fuck somebody, and that somebody is usually somebody in their social circle.
The problem is getting into their social circle…that is the rub.
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“He is trying to prove a 6.5 can game a 9 into bed and a relationship, and he’s getting awfully close.”
problem: a 6.5 who can get a 9 into bed and a relationship is no 6.5.
of course this is semantics and merely demonstrates the limits of the language of game.
tho the bigger problem i have with this concept is this word Game again. can we get over it and just go back to calling it seduction?
in another ten years people will make movies set in 2005 and the word Game is going to sound to everyone’s ears like the word Groovy on the Brady Bunch. anyone bet it doesn’t?
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Jayz – “I mean, model chicks have to fuck somebody, and that somebody is usually somebody in their social circle.
The problem is getting into their social circle…that is the rub.”
A fellow from my home town went into hairdressing – he took a lot of mockery for that from the village wits, but he collected genuinely stunning women.
I’d say that the photography route sounds like one of the better ones.
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I agree that 7’s and 8’s are difficult to game due to lack of abundance. I live in a large east coast city and when i go out the bars are usually quite crowded – depending on the venue there can be many hundreds of people – but, the number of 7 and 8’s can be counted on your fingers. On a good night you might need a couple toes. 9’s and 10’s are usually not present, unless it’s a high profile club, and even then there are maybe 1 or 2. Most girls out fall in the 4-6 range with various levels and combinations of obesity and looks, and a healthy dose of shitty attitudes.
What makes it worse, i find, is that the 7 and 8’s are usually already hooked up with a guy, who is no doubt present or she’s been texting for half the night. And when they’re not hooked up, they’re with a crowd of people which have a number of orbiters looking for their chance and occupying her time.
This is all compounded by the fact that a good cock to vag ratio is 2:1; normal is about 3 or 4:1 . It’s a sorry state of affairs. Summer is the only consolation – all the Ed Hardy wearing douche bags head to the shore and the bars become far more pleasant and the girls dont suffer from ADD so much.
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AHE – “tho the bigger problem i have with this concept is this word Game again. can we get over it and just go back to calling it seduction? ”
How about, to steal a widely used phrase from this website, “The Crimson Arts”?
It’s got a decadent ring to it, and might age better than “Game”.
Anyway, what’s interesting is whether the concepts work or not.
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i can’t give a precise definition of game.
but, i can say that the distinction between
(a) people who intuitively grok the meaning of ‘game’ without being captious about exact definitions, and
(b) the reverse,
is probably the single best indicator of which people could effectively implement game and which people could not.
louis armstrong said it best. “man, if you gotta ask, you’ll never know.”
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@johnny five
should i rub vegetable oil on my vegetables when their skin gets dry?
With the greatest of respect, what you choose to rub on your vegetables is your own business and I couldn’t possibly comment.
you should be thrown over the nearest waist-level object and whipped for this level of pedantry.
You’d better start by whipping all the other commenters so, they are much greater pedants than me, you will be at it all night.
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“louis armstrong said it best. “man, if you gotta ask, you’ll never know.””
ok. this makes sense. so game isn’t for everybody. now i get it.
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“so game isn’t for everybody.”
Not so sure about that – I’d say that not everyone can figure out advanced tactics in relation to women, and ol’ Saatchmo’s quote applies there.
But the basic stuff is pretty reasonable to folks with common sense.
E.g.
Refusing to buy a girl you’ve just me a drink if requested;
Rationale: You want her to treat you as an equal, at least. Therefore, you would no more accede to an unreasonable request from her than you would for any other newly-made acquaintance.
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Game isn’t for me, although i’ve noticed that when im successful with girls i’ve behaved in ways very similar to its formula. but the words and behavior tend to come to me either naturally or not. i either feel confident, see my opening and the right words come to my lips or they don’t.
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*chic noir runs up to sdaedalus*
I must warn you my fellow woman about the e-freak who is johnny 5
Please be careful with Johnny 5. I recall a post he wrote almost two years ago. He wrote about some things he does with his lady friends. A few things were down right disgusting but a few other were very intriguing. He will turn you out.
My computer screen looked like my bathroom mirror when I get out of the shower.
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“Game isn’t for me, although i’ve noticed that when im successful with girls i’ve behaved in ways very similar to its formula. but the words and behavior tend to come to me either naturally or not. i either feel confident, see my opening and the right words come to my lips or they don’t.”
Game doesn’t work the same for everybody since everyone is different.
Some people are naturally good looking or funny or social or tall or interesting or etc., and so game will have varying levels of success for each person.
However, what I find a lot is that people give up too easily: they encounter a lot of rejection when they first start out and thus give up.
Nothing good comes easily, and this is especially true with respect to gaming girls.
You need a lot of practice and patience.
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this absolute, like most absolutes, is not absolute.
ever notice how, when at altitude, the ever reliable food-preparation instructions suddenly produce a mass of coagulated goo, both slimy and al dente in the worst sense of each?
when in denver, you can’t do as the death valleyans do.
that’s what happens when you apply one set of simplistic instructions to something as variegated as cooking.
… or game.
absolutes like this are telling, though, in that they are indicia of severely limited experience.
viz., if i’ve only cooked at sea level, i can proclaim absolute cooking times with misguided vainglory, never knowing i’m the object of ridicule at other altitudes.
similarly, whoever wrote this advice (most certainly not ch, who is one of the very few game authors to ably acknowledge the frustrating variety of women) may have bedded a large number of women, but it’s painfully clear that all of these women are from the same social milieu.
in particular:
do not use emoticons with high IQ urban professional girls. because they’re ‘smart’ they’ll be better able to detect wit, irony, etc. without guideposts; the emoticons, which will seem at best effete and at worst patronizing can only hurt your case.
with younger girls whose minds are less bright, but whose clothing and personalities are more bright to make up for it, use emoticons early and often. you’d be surprised at some such girls’ complete inability to detect even the most blatant irony, sarcasm, or cheekiness in a text message without proverbial mile markers.
do you really think that you should text a nineteen-year-old clubkid chick with a hello kitty backpack and completely unironic striped stockings, whom you met at an all night rave, in the same way you’d text a dour-faced latetwentysomething sixth-year biglaw associate?
to ask the question is to answer it.
in fact, as i discover over and over, just as many women are asperger-level horrible at written communication as men at face-to-face (sub)communication.
ignore this at your peril.
as with anything else that could potentially carry the scarlet B for beta, just tread carefully, always ensuring that figure (= alpha) and ground (= beta) are not reversed.
don’t forget that cloying x 0.5 = sweet.
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all you asshats laugh at me for my misppeliings but here is an email i just got from a 10.5 chcik lozlllllzllz
“i am definitely interested in going as long as i am not obligated to ware the cowboy hat lol i love cowboy attire and boots with dresses and other outfits but hate mis matching boots with swimsuit and hates etc but if you want to go i would love to, want to pull those two looks? just swimwear in the day when we r on teh boat then i got some cute boots with a sheer white like cover dress thing for the evening let me know what you have in mind if it is fancie and all. would i be coming up to the cape first? if so lets me know or lets me know if you want to meet on the vineyard as i think i have a fairy comp ride out there.”
lzozlzl!
i am not fucking kiidding you but when i go into lzozllzl mode i just picture myself hitting on chix and writing out emails to tehm lzozlzlzlzlz
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first guy,
Yo relax dude .. people look for restrooms all the time .. no IOI here at all .. its not hard guys .. women will make eye contact .. gaze shifts and possibly smiles ..
Second guy,
This baby never took off at all .. it is so obvious that this was just some salesy bitch “networking” .. she is having a great time showing this moron’s emails and laughing behind his back ..
Statistically speaking, most women are not going to want to or will ever sleep with you .. your job as a man is to figure out the odds .. if there seems like a chance .. put in a chip or two .. a feeler bet if you will ..and for god-sakes if its not looking good .. amp up the asshole for a one last ditch go for broke move .. that is fucking it .. very simple .. and in this uncertain environ you will likely make mistakes .. either disclosing too much or too little interest .. if so correct your mistake and keep on going .. err on the side of asshole ..
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A woman can “””LIKE””” a guy in a few different ways (which reside along a spectrum).
1. At the top level, she can feel passionate lust. This lust is strong enough for her to forgo signs of commitment from the man. While she, like most women, harbors hopes of roping in a permanent mate, the thrill and excitement is just too overwhelming for her to risk asking too much from a Good Thing. This is the Alpha/Lover level.
2. A woman can feel romantic rumination, a marginal level of sexual desire, and a firm commitment to biosocial cultural tradition (marriage). This marginal level of sexual desire can be a result of low libido on the part of the female, or more frequently, low levels of Game/masculinity/status on the part of the male. This is the Beta/Provider level. It should be noted that sexual desire *is* present, but its force is not strong enough to sway the female from sticking to the script of ensuring a pair-bond. What this means in practice is that the sex is great during the courtship process (while she is spinning her web), and drops off notably after a certain point in a LTR is reached. Because of the “take it or leave it” attitude towards sex, the female can often consciously ration its amount to direct the male towards serving *her* goals. The important point here is that the woman is largely in the driver’s seat of her sexuality. She is not “swept away.”
3. Orbiters/Friends. Women can feel all sorts of “love”, affection, loyalty, etc. to (many) Orbiters. They just don’t want to fuck them. At all. Contrary to some of the betas here who spazz out over the seeming manipulation of their Orbitees, it’s not intentional. The women often do feel lots of genuine affection towards their Orbiters, and find nothing wrong with treating them as friends in a tit-for-tat kind of way. They are simply indifferent on a sexual level, you’re just not on their radar. Kinda like fat chicks in our social circles. It’s not that we hate them or are particularly disgusted with them, it’s just that they don’t register for us. Like background scenery.
For each of these categories, there is a corresponding suite of expected *behaviors* and *mindsets* — BOTH on the part of the male (what he is or is not allowed to get away with), AND on the part of the female (how she presents, how she expresses affection). This is never more apparent — or critical — than in the initial stages of a man and a woman meeting for the first time.
Much confusion arises from a failure to distinquish between these categories. Or, more precisely, a failure to understand the concrete expressions of these differing attitudes in women.
The early days of the seduction community concentrated on avoiding category 3, but nowadays people are getting tripped up conflating categories 1 and 2.
Not so much anyone’s fault — it’s just that for a long time there was no hard distinction between “romancing” a woman whom one genuinely desired on many levels, versus say, “gaming” a chick to fuck you in the club bathroom.
Lots of wires getting crossed out there.
Interesting: most men would look at the map/model I have laid out, and, given their druthers, would prefer to be in the alpha/lover category. Even if in actual fact they couldn’t make the grade, they would still desire it in their heart of hearts. With women, it’s more complex. They may at first glance prefer category 1, but their bifurcated need to secure BOTH a Lover AND Provider means they sometimes shoot straight for category 2. But the really interesting thing is that no matter where a woman starts on the spectrum, she is programmed to start beta-izing the man she is with. Were she to finally snag that unattainable Alpha, she would eventually start pressuring him into Category 2. If he had no Game, then he would either end up in a sexless marriage, or eventually divorced. And if WOMEN had their druthers, the men they chewed up and spat out would *remain* in their perimeter of orbiters. So you see the progression from “Go Crazy For Alpha” to “Domesticate Alpha and Lose Respect” to “Give Sex As A Treat” to “Have Affair” to “Divorce” to (potentially) “Keep Resource Available On The Backburner of my Orbiters”. In this sense, the hypergamous spirit of Woman can be compared to an earthworm which ascends through the Hierarchy by eating what is in her way, then shitting it out rearwards and moving on.
OK, that last bit might have been going too far.
But regardless — I will make a controversial claim. I will posit that for any given man and woman, their respective places on the model I have laid out will be largely set in stone and unalterable. I grant that Game makes significant improvements in modern men who have been brainwashed regarding masculinity and interpersonal boundaries, but for regular, well-adjusted guys, it will not propel you from one of my categories to another with any given woman. Yes, I realize there are men who have made herculean changes in their personality, but they are the exceptions. My point still stands. What Game DOES provide is a massive CORK to stuff in the everflowing River of Hypergamy and of establishing a foothold. An Alpha/Lover can remain free and sexually desired, while a commited Beta/Provider can protect against divorce or a sexless existence.
One last point: We all would like to be in the Alpha/Lover category. But there is always a trade off. Because of this category’s lopsided power balance in favor of men (i.e. women are motivated to forgo mate-ACQUISITION in favor of alpha-SPERM), this implies a corresponding lack of power on the female side. This means that the chick is not as hot as you could otherwise get. Another way of stating this is that out of the panapoly of women any given man may potentially have sex with, the hottest women available to him will be those who necessitate some form of compromise over alpha freedom. She will require deeper and more numerous signs of excusivity and bondingness.
[editor: this is true regardless of game. the higher value the chick, the more she can demand from suitors. game though can certainly help at more than the margins. it can boost a natural beta provider into the alpha lover stratosphere with enough effort on the part of the man, though whether most men are psychologically equipped to sustain such a lifestyle is a valid question. i consider advanced game equivalent to 10 million bucks, lead guitarist in a local indie band, partner in a large law firm, or a +3 boost in looks. that’s nothing to sneeze at.]
So basically, there are two ways of being Alpha/Lover: either BE high-value (Game only helps at the margins here), OR lower your standards.
For some men, quantity is more important than quality.
[but nothing beats quantity and quality.]
For others, the reverse. This distinction between men could be characterized as that of between those who prefer a turkey shoot vs the big game hunters.
[every man has a hotness threshold below which he won’t dumpster dive. this is true for the fling masters as well as the wifey hunters. it hasn’t been my observation or personal experience at all that men who choose more frequent short term flings to the exclusion of LTRs are in any way compromising the quality of women they bang. in fact, i’ve noticed just the opposite. men who start to get good at picking up chicks generally experience an overall increase in the quality of the chicks they score.]
I make no moral judgement either way with this statement.
Discuss amongst yourselves.
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( in the movies, the badboy always morphs into a niceguy before fully winning over the damsel’s heart. in real life, we in the know… know better.]
i believe thats exactly what i said.
[editor: the point is that hollywood, if it has the power to affect the sexual market like you claim, is pushing the niceguy gets the girl meme a lot harder than the opposite.]
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everything you said about girls not being interested during high-pee/turtling times are completely accurate.
“because life’s greatest adventure shouldn’t be finding a bathroom”
http://www.go-girl.com/
heh heh heh
[editor: whiz bang! is there a male version? perhaps dude-dump.com?]
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this is the greatest thing i have ever seen in my life
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[if people are gonna accuse me of trying to make a quick buck, i may as well enjoy the benefits of turning a quick buck.]
i should have qualified that i was referring to those giving the seminars not this blog.
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“BTW, this past weekend was the 23rd anniversary of our first date.” That is so lovely. Congratulations.”
Thanks!
” if she’s taking her time, because she feels she has plenty of options, then she’s not yet attracted to him in the first place. ”
Or maybe she’s just cautious; maybe he comes off too gamy.
“No matter how many options a woman has, she never likes to let the chance of a date with a man she is definitely attracted to slip away, if only out of curiosity as to whether or not he might be “the one”. ”
I think the older you get, the more you realize there isn’t a “one,” just a number of people who have enough positive traits to make it work. He may lack those traits, and his bitterness and negging may have turned her off. Or she may have approached him as a business prospect, thought”Hmm, cute too,” and then had him gradually disqualify himself. I do see some IOIs, but I agree with you that she isn’t strongly interested.
“At best, I would say that she has not decided whether or not she is attracted to him, this means that he’s going to have to work very hard to increase the attraction, and it may well be too late.”
Oh yeah, it is too late now. He projects too much of a mean, angry “beta” vibe.
“You should come and comment on this over at http://seasonsoftumultanddiscord.wordpress.com/2010/06/01/the-dirty-little-secret/”
I’ll check it out. If I don’t make it over there and you want to quote me, you can.
‘Yes, some of us do need a few heartbreaks (or, at least, the experience of watching our friends or family go through heartbreaks) to figure it out.’
You live, you learn. A lot of people on this blog would call that settling, but it’s just a matter of learning what you need and value and selecting people who can give it to you. It’s not lowering your standards, it’s having high standards about what’s really important.
“I’m about 5000 miles east of DC. But yes, nice female lawyers do *ahem* occasionally exist outside DC, although they can be cranky on occasion if under pressure.”
I’m not in DC either, but I thought a lot of the regulars were and know each other IRL.
“Lovely talking to you btw.”
You too.
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i can understand someone spending $20 for a book by a writer like strauss or CR, but i cant understand someone spending $700 for a 2 day seminar.
[editor: it’s not something i would spend money on, especially when there’s plenty of free material available on the net to help any man make major self improvement strides, but i’m not gonna fault a rich lonely dude for spending thousands on a shot at getting the one thing that matters most. it certainly beats the alternative.]
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[editor: the point is that hollywood, if it has the power to affect the sexual market like you claim, is pushing the niceguy gets the girl meme a lot harder than the opposite.]
think of it this way. if 95% of the movie shows a woman titillated by an asshole and the last 5% shows him morphed into a nice guy for the sake of a romantic resolution my takeaway is that chicks dig assholes.
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@Canon’s Cannon
Awesome video…This is overblown and he clearly is taking the piss and not caring. But some good stuff in here…
Best shit test response:
5:55 I’m really amused that there are really guys out there like this…
Adam: Pauses…”Oh baby we’re all like this…”
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perhaps i am biased because expensive seminars happen to fall into the bad company of and seem to resemble a lot of other phony seminars that promise riches but sound to good to be true.
i admit that when i saw magnolia i assumed for years the cruise character was entirely a p t anderson creation from whole cloth. i was shocked to find out a decade later that shit really happens.
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I think a few cues were missed here.
But her waffling reminds me so much of “Chinese girl game”.
Everything is vague and double-edged and aimed in many ways at testing to see how much of a “man” you are.
I know this because recently I’ve been discussing “game” with Chinese girls. They don’t call it game. It’s just the way they are. They constantly tease. They constantly push and pull.
Also, you can see from this exchange that time doesn’t matter for this girl. YOu drop her for 2 weeks and then reply, she replies instantly.
She loves the attention.
One thing I’m learning to understand is how to think like these girls.
What you know: she’s a lawyer, so she works with a lot of alpha males.
1) She’s clever.
2) She’s bored.
3) She loves sports.
4) She’s also a master at the double-entendre—with the cupcakes offer.
Example:
HER:
I can’t this Friday I am afraid (it’s my birthday) – any other day perhaps?
ME: Happy birthday. I am around Saturday for early drinks, otherwise next week (not Monday, I am going to the racetrack in ZZZ).
You’re being wayyyyyyyyyyy too straight and nice.
Why not amp it up? “Birthday? Oh, I was going to invite you to XXXX [FANCY PLACE] but now it’s Chuckee Cheese [or some other cheap ass place]
Wait….see how she responds. Is she flaking or is she interested?
ANOTHER OPPORTUNITY:
HER:
Sure. How was the racetrack in Zxxxxx by the way?
ME: adrenalinic. that’s what I need to wash away the week’s inertia.
HER: Very cool. Were you a spectator or a participant?
ME:
Participant of course. I wouldn’t bother to go all the way to zxxxxx to watch other people racing.
HER:
Either way sounds like a lot of fun. How often do you go?
ME:
Yeah its one of the things I like to do. So…and what rocks your boat? Who are you?
She rides horses, clearly she’s interested. Why not ask for any racing tips? If you’re going to be chatting with her, make it fun or funny.
The “Cupcakes” line for me would have been where I would have thrown it out there:
“Cupcakes? I like licking off the icing.”
I don’t think this is a total lost cause.
She seems to respond quickly and you know enough about her to make some kind of suggestion that would entice her.
I wouldn’t hold my breath on this one, but at the same time, you might be able to improve your online game with her since she seems to like writing.
In this case, I’d treat it as a learning experience. Read through the comments and take onboard the advice.
Then after a period of time when you no longer give a shit and are over your one-itis for this girl, get back in touch.
Keep it short. Read the post he wrote on “Reviving a cold lead” this one is ice cold, but with proper game, you could peak her interest since she loves getting emails and texts.
“Was watching Law and Order (or some other legal program) .and thought of you….”
She’ll likely respond with “Why?”
You: There was something on cupcakes…
Have a goal that is flexible and that you can do with or without her.
If she cancels, use his line which I’ve used:
“Hey, good luck.”
Chin up mate, keep practicing and stop being so nice.
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(it can boost a natural beta provider into the alpha lover stratosphere with enough effort on the part of the man, though whether most men are psychologically equipped to sustain such a lifestyle is a valid question. i consider advanced game equivalent to 10 million bucks, lead guitarist in a local indie band, partner in a large law firm, or a +3 boost in looks. that’s nothing to sneeze at.]
this is the sort of claim i find dubious. if a man is psychologically capable, how is it possible that he is a natural beta? seems a contradiction. its like saying if a bad guitar player were a great guitar player.. he d be a great guitar player.
[editor: because game and an understanding of the nature of women isn’t intuitive for a lot of men. a man who could be great with women given the right knowledge and mentors might flounder in beta obscurity otherwise.]
i get ur point that a great guitar player must practice–but he must also be a natural.
[some men will take to game quicker than others. no one disputes that. so your point is?]
otherwise is starts to sound like one of those malcolm gladwell arguments that practice is everything and nature doesnt matter much.
[no one here said nature doesn’t matter, so you can stop genuflecting to your hbd strawnerd. you write like one of those inveterate pessimists who wants to constantly be reaffirmed in his pessimism. after the 100th iteration it begins to smack of trollery.]
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got my drink on, but a few random thoughts likely to induce derision:
i only heard of game 6 months ago when tyler chalupa cowen mentioned this blog. since then ive been trying to grok it.
[editor: ah good ol cowen. indulging cheap authentic chalupas made in kitchens staffed by authentic squat guapos while america demographically burns. real patriot, he.]
if nothing else i think its value is way exaggerated. (putting lipstick on a fat chcik). at leasst for losers.
[read my post “the limits of game”]
i find it instinctively distasteful but not because i find it offensive. i find it distasteful because it reeks so much of a religious or political movement.
[oh lawd, fill me with testicular fortitude, and bring forth a flood of pussy juice to cleanse humanity of its wicked ways! mercy!]
it reeks of courses promising to teach one to day trade or get rich buying real estate.
[nobody here is claiming game can be mastered in a weekend. but you’ll see results a lot faster with game than you would slaving away in academia and the corporate rat race.]
it is divided into belivers and unbelievers. it is full of testimonials just like get rich quick seminars. just substitute laid for rich.
[if people are gonna accuse me of trying to make a quick buck, i may as well enjoy the benefits of turning a quick buck.]
as a movement, it has set up a lot of straw men. this idea tht american society has taught that being a nice guy is the way to succeed is particularly phony. just watch any romantic chick flick. the main male interest is almost always an asshole the chicks r trying to get to open up. sure at the end of the movie the guy turns into a romantic putz but only at the end. take a classic chick flick like when harry met sally written by rob fucking reiner! or look at any old carry grant film. a streetcar named desire. hollywood has always portrayed the bad boy as the man to be. so anyone claiming american culture has been sending the msg that being a nice guy is the way to go to get laid either hasnt seen a movie sense the advent of movies — or is just full of shit.
[in the movies, the badboy always morphs into a niceguy before fully winning over the damsel’s heart. in real life, we in the know… know better.]
commence with the thunbs downs.
[what we need is a thumb up ass icon.]
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Phew! I was wondering what the hell you were doing publishing that neverending email thread of two dullards yammering trite yuppie banter back and forth. (Note: Dude said “this city never sleeps” about New York. Oy gevalt.) This is a mindnumbing example of the Jumbotron rule you refer to. If the shit you’re writing to a chick you’re trying to bed is too lame for public consumption: Do Not Write It.
Another thing to remind serial texters and emailers, and even guys who for some strange reason get caught up talking on the phone forever (I used to do it in high school): YOU NEED TO BE WITH THE GIRL, IN REAL LIFE, TO FUCK HER. Therefore, use the tools to set up a date. Pronto. As fast as you can do it, within reason. Don’t become her yip yap timekilling decoy to chat with on Facebook or send stupid emails to (see above) while she’s trying to kill time at work. You have a job to do. It’s called fucking. Go do it and quit fucking around and getting lost on the nation’s vast telecom networks.
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Everyone who really wants to understand not just mating patterns but other important aspects of human life should pick up a book about evolutionary psychology. All the principles any PUA is ever going to teach one all stem from this science (at least in my opinion)
http://www.amazon.com/Evolutionary-Psychology-New-Science-Mind/dp/0205483380
Will save you a lot of money on manuals, blue prints, and whatever else. Life is only as difficult as you decide to make it.
My Best
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whorefinder: Yes it’s time to update Bang. Second edition will have text game.
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My real problem with game is that it’s so patronizing to men. It’s admitting all the bullshit laws, that allow women to take advantage of their hypergamy as never seen before on this planet, isn’t beyond fucked.
It’s just hard to appreciate game with the crazy alimony, child support, and abortion on demand laws. Not to mention pretending they have any fucking clue in most of the high paying jobs they are given.
I compare the mating game in America to a basketball game where the gals were given a 500 point lead, and the guys have one half to make up the difference. And I would rather take my ball and go somewhere else, just a little bit more friendly to my team.
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SDaedalus
So “women game men for practice”? That’s odd. I always thought women didn’t need practice. Sh;t-testing and gaming men are natural. They developed as part of evolutionary self interest most women have.
As for emailing her late in the work day, good tip. One better is for a guy to use his personal email address and to ask for hers. That said, if he cannot get her personal phone number, he should cease all contact immediately. It’s a lost cause.
My DC lawyer-chick maxim still stands.
Do not date. Definitely do not marry. Wear a raincoat. Have mask/paper bag and ear plugs handy in the event of extreme bitchiness.
Life’s too short. There are lots of wonderful women out there – like SDaedalus, my girl from the green hills of Eire.
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@AHE,
“no one here said nature doesn’t matter, so you can stop genuflecting to your hbd strawnerd. you write like one of those inveterate pessimists who wants to constantly be reaffirmed in his pessimism. after the 100th iteration it begins to smack of trollery.”
.. the basics are really well established .. your weak arguments cannot topple them .. Game is just that .. knowledge + skills + practice .. at the very least .. even if you do not or cannot want to work on the skillsets .. you will not waste your resources pursuing horrible dead ends and heartaches and all that .. THAT knowledge by itself is worth so much man ..
Regarding the skills, it is certainly far from a complete body of knowledge .. as anything dealing with the real world …. YMMW .. but aren’t you glad that there is a community that sorts out stuff for you through trail and error .. true it may exaggerate the results .. and there could be somewhat of a survivor bias .. but who cares .. you should be thankful that there is something .. anything that is working on your side ..
At the end of the day .. nobody will do your bidding or fight your battles .. .. what you get from the community is wisdom .. and that is priceless ..
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@tupac- great post. i’m not sure i agree that your categories are immutable, though. i think even an ordinary man’s status and desirability improve over time (status, maturity, even looks), and major life changes in wealth or social status can bump a man up to star status. e.g., tiger woods going from clueless college beta to legend, fame, fortune and, before the meltdown, pussy-on-demand. (Actually, that’s a bad example, because we know that inner beta was controlling him at some level.) maybe a young wannabe actor becoming a huge movie star. we all can think of a dozen names in that regard. a dude like that goes from sleeping on a couch and wondering where his next paycheck will come from, to fame, fortune, and constant female attention of your Category 1 type. Sure, it’s external, an aspect of his change in social status. but doesn’t that change his mindset, his reality?
@johnny 5 – great posts. i don’t remember when you posted here before but it’s great to read your stuff.
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“My real problem with game is that it’s so patronizing to men. It’s admitting all the bullshit laws, that allow women to take advantage of their hypergamy as never seen before on this planet, isn’t beyond fucked. ”
I disagree .. hoping for the “good ole times” is weakness .. real men deal with the way the world is not as they wish it to be .. Life has always been hard and brutal .. nobody gives anything to you .. you gotta take it .. I am glad that there is a community of men that share their experiences and insights .. to make life easier .. the massively wired world hugely favors the smart men .. smart not as in “i can prove Reiman zeta hypothesis” .. smart as in ” oh this is the way this shit works .. now how do i push my advantage”
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“Everyone who really wants to understand not just mating patterns but other important aspects of human life should pick up a book about evolutionary psychology.”
Yes, but for some reason Game assumes humans have the ev psych of a species where the males are smaller and more colorful than the females and hence males advertise and females choose. But humans are the opposite: females are the weaker, more attractive sex. In such species the alpha males fight it out and choose/rape the females–and the females advertise.
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SDaedalus
<i?So “women game men for practice”? That’s odd. I always thought women didn’t need practice. Sh;t-testing and gaming men are natural. They developed as part of evolutionary self interest most women have.
Some women are under the illusion that they can attract men, or increase the attraction, by their conversation & wit (Dorothy Parker syndrome). This lady could be using this guy as target practice in this regard, looking to see what approach brings him to a fever pitch of attraction [answer: read pupu] with a view to using that approach, if it works, on future victims.
I was actually thinking about practice in a slightly different sense. Like @ahappinessexperiment, I suspect that at least part of this is a girl getting practice in using her feminine wiles for networking purposes [unfortunately, like age, unethical behaviour in this regard this always catches up with a girl, often at the same time]
And of course women game men they are not really interested in for reassurance that they are attractive [not the same thing as practice, but I should have mentioned it above also].
I don’t actually approve of any of the above forms of behaviour because usually they end up hurting people but for better or worse they do occur and can provide a man who does not initially attract but has Game with a foot in the door so to speak.
If you think a girl might be gaming you for reassurance or practice then the test is really whether they keep doing it when another very attractive man turns up. Email and phone conversations are lethal in this regard because they are two way only. Much better to meet the girl in person in a group situation and observe her behavior.
One better is for a guy to use his personal email address and to ask for hers. That said, if he cannot get her personal phone number, he should cease all contact immediately. It’s a lost cause.
I absolutely agree with this.
There are lots of wonderful women out there – like SDaedalus, my girl from the green hills of Eire.
Thank you Philosopher but I hope you are not making fun of me here or indeed, using me for practice in Virtual Game. I would be Very Sad.
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I googled lzozlz and found mostly what one would expect: comments with ‘butthex’ in them. There was also an entry from urban dictionary describing it as an amalgamation of lol and zzz. UD’s claim is that it’s to be used when one is sleepy and laughing, which is so useless im almost sure gbfm put it there as a google egg.
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You can apply this series to famous people pretty easily.
Beta Gore is getting divorced while alpha asshole Bill is still married.
http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-06-02/clintons-messy-marriage-outlasts-staid-gores-margaret-carlson.html
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‘tip jar’ would easily put up at least 30 g’s
who wouldn’t do that?
parlaying fame into a book deal? tucker maxth probably started an auction for himself.
i’ve tried to to gauge the “bollinger bands” of this site’s accessibility
personally, i aspire to minimalism. i can’t reconcile a missing $30k though… i gotta assume it’s already there, or maybe i’m just super-infantile.
if i’m correct, it definitely augments the prime ‘game’ mentality. it’s ALMOST like being a 6-foot-something gym-rat like the archetype in my video. that guy embodies my hopes and dreams.
“he may be tall… but can he ball???” – steamin’ willie beamen
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@ahappinessexperiment:-
Game assumes humans have the ev psych of a species where the males are smaller and more colorful than the females and hence males advertise and females choose.But humans are the opposite: females are the weaker, more attractive sex. In such species the alpha males fight it out and choose/rape the females–and the females advertise
I’m not sure Game is about men advertising to be chosen by women at all.
Quite the contrary, it is about men choosing women, and saying you’re lucky to have me interested, I don’t need to advertise to you specifically, I just hope you’re actually worth the trouble.
Look at the guy in the email – all that stuff about boats etc. is too obvious, the problem is, he’s advertising herself – he should be asking her questions, not giving her answers. Giving her information like this is not working not just because of the fact that it removes any mystery about him, it is not working because it is an implicit request to her “choose me”, this is the wrong way to go about things.
Game is not about the man saying, choose me, it is about the man saying to the woman, are you good enough? The pressure is put on the woman to measure up. It shifts the power balance. I think this is an important component in why it works. You see this in a lot of myths and fairytales, even Beauty and the Beast can be explained on this basis – Beauty had to prove herself worthy.
Of course matters are not helped by the fact that a lot of these have been rewritten from a different angle where it is the man who has to prove himself e.g. Beauty & the Beast recharacterised as a man being redeemed from iniquity by a woman’s virtue (this is never going to work precisely because, having allowed himself to be redeemed by her, he has relinquished his power over her, she will be fed up of him as soon as he has redeemed)
Women are natural advertisers, and have a strong competitive instinct, they like to compete to be chosen and the harder they are made to compete the more they value the person who ultimately chooses them. For a man to beg a woman to choose him is to take away all the fun.
I think you’ve almost hit the nail on the head, but you’ve just got your last couple of sentences the wrong way round.
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Even if she was only mainly angling for business, F really blew it by not securing a face to face when it would have been so easy. And men with status enough to warrant a corporate lawyer’s sales pitch, would normally have a better chance with one than other men would.
Thanx @J for confirming, as a woman, that the pizza in her conference room offer would be seen as the opposite of beta because the woman would be looking closely at the level of self-confidence the man has in the face of an apparently rare-for-him disappointment + his empathy for her life, etc.
In any event, the best way for a man to spend his alpha cred is in closing a first face to face, so if our Irish lass @sdaedalus would have dinged me for offering to bring pizza to the late-working lawyer, I would have made up for it by saying something DHV in the next few sentences. I would have also matter of fact commented “I’ve often brought chinese food to lawyer friends to eat in conference rooms – Lawyers like you are fascinating to talk with”. <– which also says "so let's get the Hell off email".
@sdaedalus hit the nail on the head that F should have recognized that the woman might not have jumped at the idea of boarding a boat with male strangers, so that would be yet another reason why there was no need for F to take her reaction to that invitation as a flake of any kind.
I just had a 10 flake on me teaching her swimming this afternoon…she said "Let's go for a walk in the park today and you can teach me swimming later". Am I upset about not getting to see her in a bathing suit today? Not really. This is only going to be the 2nd date and I understand that she understands that swimming lessons would have had me holding her body a lot. In addition, her period could have started early. Who am I to second guess when she wants to still see me. Not only that, she has a 2 year old and may have found it hard to get a babysitter and I bet she brings him to test me again how good a daddy I might be (the kid's already on my side, I made sure I knew whom to charm first).
Go with the flow.
As I've noted, the best looking women, especially the 9s and 10s, will heavily test a man's reaction to her disappointing him. They don't want to see anger or petty "I don't care" reactions. Be cool about it; just remember to up the ante. This one already knows I fully intend to hold her body in a pool soon. The other 10 who obnoxiously stood me up last week for 4 dates (we stood each other up on the 4th one) was subconsciously telling me back then to stop romancing her and cut to the chase. When I started to say "bring your toothbrush because you will be spending the night at my place" she started to actually show up for the dates.
Look at real flake-outs as a subconscious warning to change the game, not end it. Look at postponements at face value, however. You will have other fish on the hook to deal with that evening or you can use the spare evening to work out at the gym (every workout makes a man better looking than otherwise).
And to the guy who keeps saying game is secondary to looks…I am 25+ years older than these women so it is definitely not my looks that are doing anything. Women respond to willpower more than looks.
This segways into another issue I'm seeing in this thread which is that some of you guys are still living on the east coast of the USA for some reason…and complaining about lowly 7s and 8s acting uppity.
I thought the last real man out of the US east coast was supposed to have already turned out the lights?
It is against my interest for too many US males to wake up and smell the coffee – it is in my interest that a lot of fools believe US feminists when they say that the best men don't *have to* date foreign women – but in the interest of science, here goes:
1) Because of the Internet, any white collar worker who can earn $5K/month in an office on the US east coast, can easily secure $3K/month working remotely (as in a place where genetic anomalies make the women mostly goddesses who outnumber men 5 to 1) – and he can do this even for the company he is now working at (especially if he goes 1099 and jettisons the insurance).
Cost of living calculations will show that $3K in most places on Earth will give a man a much higher standard of living than $5K in NYC or DC – and that is not counting the higher standard of women you get.
There would be no loss of "career cred" or "experience" in choosing to physically operate from any spot on Earth that has an Internet node, especially if one traveled twice a year of more for trade shows and industry seminars etc. So you can live in Estonia or Holland and spend a few weeks per year at conventions in Las Vegas or Miami…without hurting your career.
2) As CR will confirm, genetics and good diet make 9s and 10s a dime a dozen in places like Estonia or Holland. You really can have a "10 Only" policy in a place like that. I wasn't joking in the "Triteness of Hating" thread when I mentioned a "Just Say No to 8s" policy in Eastern Europe. It is hard for me to resist highly intelligent 8s, so I don't always hold to my policy, but every moment you spend in public with an 8 means a dozen 9s and one or two 10s will pass by unmet. There is too high an opportunity cost.
QED: If you're wasting your time in an American bar watching 7s and 8s act like ice princesses while being surrounded by lazy men who can't buy plane tickets…you really don't have many excuses. Nobody will think you have bad driving skills if you fly to Milan to buy a Ferrari. Nobody will think you have poor social skills for getting 9s and 10s instead of complaining about the behavior of 7s and 8s. Cue hammer hitting thick skull.
Remember, with the Internet your white collar job is transferable to where *you* want to be.
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@ ahappinessexperiment
“this is the sort of claim i find dubious. if a man is psychologically capable, how is it possible that he is a natural beta? seems a contradiction.”
I am not sure how you cannot accept that a change in perception more in tune with reality, development of skills and practice would NOT make a sizable improvement in Game, as it would with pretty much any skill. Your analogy about the guitar player is somewhat nonsensical.
Someone may be capable of being a great guitar player, but if he never bothers to pick one up, to read about and learn the basics about music, or practice with the damn thing, he won’t be even a bad guitar player.
This would seem to be pretty obvious, and the fact that you can’t grasp it suggests you are purposefully being obtuse.
Let’s take just the perception aspect.
Take a guy who is decent looking, has a sense of humor, and makes a good living. He buys the whole “women will like me for me” concept, and has the pedestal complex firmly implanted in his brain, so he treats all the women he meets with complete respect, flattery, sweetness, etc, because that is what they really want out of a guy.
Now, he, like most men, very much likes the concept of sex, in that he would like to have some rather than none, and would also like a girlfriend in general.
However, with all of his assets, he seems unable to attract attention from any women except those that are significantly below his general attractiveness level. What he seems to find is that women that are in ANY way attractive seem to treat him as a friend, or after a date or two, place him firmly in that category. He ends up with no sex, and no girlfriend, but plenty of women in his life who think he’s “a great guy”.
He continually makes efforts to score, only to find himself coming up empty and again. He gets a little bit more in shape, changes his clothes and hairstyle, and comes up with different approaches, and still squat. He gets maybe a few more dates which lead nowhere.
“WTF?” our young hero thinks. “Have I not applied myself and made the effort? Have I not spent more time in the gym and less playing World of Warcraft?”
He’s a bright guy, working in a tech field, why the FUCK can’t he figure out the secret?
The problem he has, unfortunately, is that his PERCEPTION of what women are like, what they desire out of a mate for fucking and/or a relationship, and how he comes off does not match the reality. He is feeding garbage into his analysis of his failures, and not surprisingly, is getting garbage out.
He believes all women to be sweetness and light, without their own selfish needs and desires and dark sides.
He believes they operate as purely on logic as he does.
He believes that for women, sexual gratification and fulfillment are much lower down on their list of priorities.
He believes being attentive and nice and completely sexually unthreatening is sure to win the hearts of the ladies.
He believes that women don’t crave the cock, but will tolerate its proximity if he can make the right moves.
Etc.
What Game does, among other things, bring home the reality of sexual dynamics in general, and particularly as they currently exist in our society. It then gives a battle plan and tactics for utilizing those dynamics to his best advantage.
So, our young under-sexed hero, stumbling upon the fundamentals of Game suddenly sees the heavens part and golden light shine down, and he has an epiphany of spiritual proportions, one which is both simple and profound:
“You are going about this all wrong…”
He can’t believe it at first, but after shifting through the pitiful wasteland of his dating and sexual history, and reviewing things he has observed for years, but which did not seem to make sense, it all falls into place.
He suddenly sees the world through new eyes, finally perceiving the Martix around him, understanding the underlying code. Combined with his intelligence to grasp the new concepts, and with the determination that only comes to a man who has not gotten some for so long but suddenly sees it within his grasp, he alters his whole attitude and outlook.
Rather than feeling lost and out of control, clueless and desperate, he finally feels he is in control. Rejection is no longer just another occasion for despair, but a learning exercise which only makes his next approach stronger.
Clues which before completely passed below his radar now smack him dead in the face.
Etc.
Can you honestly tell me that someone getting a more firm grasp of the reality which confronts them will not substantially increase their ability to operate in and exploit it? Does not having a clear picture of situation increase your chances of analyzing it?
The question answers itself.
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lolzllozlzolllzlzlllz
teh secret butthex tapings by tucker max for neocon fiat bankers lolozlzozlzz cocka cocks butthex lolzzl you aer betaherb fro the fed and hundredz of thousandz of fiat dollarz for taping teh butthex lolzlzozlzlzzzlz
That spastic, closet sodomite is like a pukestain on the fabric of this forum
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@ sdaedalus,
Very much like how you broke that down.
“I’m not sure Game is about men advertising to be chosen by women at all.
Quite the contrary, it is about men choosing women, and saying you’re lucky to have me interested, I don’t need to advertise to you specifically, I just hope you’re actually worth the trouble…
Game is not about the man saying, choose me, it is about the man saying to the woman, are you good enough? The pressure is put on the woman to measure up. It shifts the power balance. I think this is an important component in why it works. You see this in a lot of myths and fairytales, even Beauty and the Beast can be explained on this basis – Beauty had to prove herself worthy. ”
Makes for a very handy crib sheet, as it were, of the general attitude of Game.
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@Seran
Aw, thanks so much. I would never have worked this out all on my own, ahappinessexperiment took it 95% of the way for me. It is great to have a discussion on these matters, I learn a lot from other people’s points of view.
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But humans are the opposite: females are the weaker, more attractive sex.
To an intelligent non-human, or better yet, a non-primate observer, would human females still be considered the more attractive sex?
I’d say No, and make an analogy to lions. The human male “in the wild” is bigger, taller, more muscular, with a rougher, more interesting, bearded face. Analogous to a lion, with its massive musculature and regal mane. The human female, to a non-human aesthete, is like a lioness: moody, slinky, thinner, less hairy (no mane). To us, she is less impressive than a male lion. Though to a lion, a lioness is more desireable than a fellow feline male, no homo.
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SDaedalus said:
“Game is not about the man saying, choose me, it is about the man saying to the woman, are you good enough?”
Except this is simply completely untrue. It is specifically about the man PRETENDING to ask if she is good enough for him, whereas in fact he simply wants her to choose him.
It is really a game in all of the senses of the term. Didn’t any of you wonder about the origin of very term?
And, just like this intelligent and attractive lawyer in the original email proves, it simply means that women have a lot of power, as CR very often underlines, and as the very existence of this blog testifies to. Resistance is key. And resistance attracts men as much as it attracts women, in spite of loud testosterophoney protestations.
As far as the comments against email or other written communication shows, the power of words is considerable. In fact, what people exchange here is recipes so as to build oneself an irresistible armour. And this armour is made of words; but only of a selection of them, ordered and chosen carefullly, so that they become powerful for a very short pre-coital moment.
It is all about trying to (re)make the Tristan and Isolde philter, only in one particular modern way. Terribly romantic, in fact.
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” He believes that women don’t crave the cock, but will tolerate its proximity if he can make the right moves.”
LOLZ.
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AHE – “tho the bigger problem i have with this concept is this word Game again. can we get over it and just go back to calling it seduction? ”
Game is more than seduction, and less at the same time. Seduction is a subset of effectively dealing with women.
The term “seduction” also has a pejorative connotation to feminists, it’s the proverbial talking a woman into the sack that absolves them of responsibility for their choices. (In feminism, women are equal to men but also inexplicably prone to mind control…I know, wtf).
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I find the lion analogy to be particularly lacking. Think about it.
Now think about it some more.
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@Valmont
“Game is not about the man saying, choose me, it is about the man saying to the woman, are you good enough?”
Except this is simply completely untrue. It is specifically about the man PRETENDING to ask if she is good enough for him, whereas in fact he simply wants her to choose him.
Not really. Look at the words I used. The key one is “saying”, it is a question of presentation rather than actuality.
We all know that we are no longer living in the Stone Age, and women have some choice in these matters.
The attraction of Game is that it pretends that she doesn’t.
I agree that it is based on fantasy. But fantasy is a big component in attraction.
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Here are some beta policemen in Florida who started a background checking service with an anti-male double standard:
http://www.wpbf.com/news/23775975/detail.html
So far so good right?
Read the “Tips” section on their website and look for the double standard:
http://www.mymatchchecker.com/tips.php
First they say:
4. Run a background check on the person. You want to make sure the person is not married, a sexual predator, a wanted felon, a domestic violence abuser, or worse! MyMatchChecker™ was specifically created to help daters be more informed…and be safer.
Then they say:
7. If you are going to be contacting a new person via e-mail, open a separate e-mail account. Do not use your main e-mail account for communicating with your new “date.” Be sure not to use any personal information in your e-mail address that can be traced back to you, e.g. your last name, etc.
Notice how they pretend to be gender-neutral in both tips.
Notice how the person the reader is about to date is apparently not someone who should be reading these tips (if the man followed these tips he would not give out his last name so a woman could use the service).
Now I’ll ask: is there any male reading this who doesn’t clearly understand that the US culture feels that women should not give men their last names upfront while the men MUST give women their last names upfront?
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GBFM,
As a recent red pill taker, I’m delighted to learn that you will lozzllozozl your way down here soon.
If you take a night off from your Cape Cod butthexing of desouled womenz when they are youngerhottertighter than they will be for their future beta fools, I’ll gladly buy you some drinks and talk about the great books. Throw an email address in here if that’s to your liking.
Keep up the great work and pissing off the censor haters.
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It’s not so much fantasy as it is trying to re-create the Stone Age or the Middle Ages or what have you and adapt it to the modern world. That’s precisely what women want. They want to have choices and freedom, but passive choices and they want their freedom to be tempered by a strong man. Culture today has men on the backfoot and since so many are afraid to give women what they want but don’t want to ask for, you see so many instances of female depravity and male caddishness.
Think about a child. A child wants to rebel, to explore his surroundings, but he needs discipline and rules. Failing to discipline a child is a monumental failure in parenting. It doesn’t make anyone happy. The less discipline, the more the child acts out and the more unhappy he is. Why? Because he feels safe when mom and dad lay down the law and while he might sulk, deep down he’s glad his parents care enough to enforce rules. The same goes for women. They desire their freedom and respect as unique individuals and not subservient to men, but they want desperately to still be allowed to be passive and rely on men. When you compare that desire to a child, you can see how it’s not counterintuitive nor is it impossible to satisfy both desires and needs.
And for all the secret feminists lurking, if you hate the comparison to children, why not compare women to men? Men need their egos stroked and women to acknowledge their value as well as protect them emotionally (LTRs only). But, of course, they can’t exactly explicitly tell women that because admitting that weakness is counterproductive as it lowers their value in the eyes of both their women and themselves. So it’s up to women to subconsciously understand men’s desire to feel and genuinely be NEEDED by those women. In the past, that was quite easy as women were more than happy to concede that they needed to be protected from wild animals, the elements and warfare. Nowadays? Not so much, unless it’s the buff firefighter that just rescued a damsel from her burning condo.
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Or perhaps I should’ve just said “cockas @ gbfm” ?
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Cape Codder,
Let’s take a page from the Rush Limbaugh show and try “Mega LOLZZLZ.”
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Game for dummies:
Pretend that a woman has to “prove” something to you… when all you care about is her looks.
Game for people:
Actually want something more from her than her looks. Men demand, and women comply. You will then magically have many of Game’s tricks.
One group…. PUAs… will get women… but will they keep them?
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@Borderline Retard
Actually want something more from her than her looks. Men demand, and women comply. You will then magically have many of Game’s tricks.
One group…. PUAs… will get women… but will they keep them?
Yes.
They will. And also take them away from angry Betas.
Don’t have to believe me.
Why are voluntary betas so simpering?
“Game just can’t be true. If you give me five minutes, I’ll find some other nonsense thing to say and that’ll show you how… not quite good, … not as good, … not as real, … not as reliable, … game is.”
And yet, it’s just more and more simpering.
Just don’t want to get women off their pedestal, eh?
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Anyone have any witty responses to a girl saying, “You look like trouble, has anyone ever told you that before?”
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@Polymath
Cap’n Bob,
“The Limits of Game” is exactly the theme of Gorbachev’s recent extensive comments. He is trying to prove a 6.5 can game a 9 into bed and a relationship, and he’s getting awfully close.
Really you are missing a key variable. What matters is RELATIVE rating.
If relative to you the woman is:
-3 you don’t notice her
-2 she gives constant IOIs, you approach her with dominance
-1 you usually get IOIs and approach with confidence
0 you sometimes get IOIs and are comfortable approaching
+1 you get IOIs once in a while and approach with some nervousness but can still handle yourself
+2 you need game to get her attention at all
+3 without wealth, fame, or an escort at least as hot as she is, you are invisible to her
Gorby is working at the bleeding edge, -2.5.
Note: if you are a real master at game and the girl is unsophisticated you can manage +4 or +5, if you’re willing to devote yourself to it including moving to a receptive society (in the USA there aren’t any unattached 9′s who are unsophisticated); see: xsplat).
BTW, working at this level is a serious test of game. You have to be literally on your toes every living second. Anyone who says different either hasn’t tried or is not playing out of league (a 9-10 male w/ extra, or Astoundingly Good game)
9s are surrounded by alternatives, and have, by definition, all males as “floaters” and “almosts” and “wannabes”.
It’s like living on the edge.
My experience has been, up until now, that 9s are ungettable and usually unavailable. You need a rare opening. And 8s take a lot of work and good game, regardless.
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The Lion analogy is apt.
“It is only the man whose intellect is clouded by his sexual instinct that could give that stunted, narrow-shouldered, broad-hipped, and short-legged race the name of the fair sex; for the entire beauty of the sex is based on this instinct. One would be more justified in calling them the unaesthetic sex than the beautiful. Neither for music, nor for poetry, nor for fine art have they any real or true sense and susceptibility, and it is mere mockery on their part, in their desire to please, if they affect any such thing.”
“All beauty is really more a projection, an emanation of the requirements of love; and so the beauty of woman is not apart from love, it is not an objective to which love is directed, but woman’s beauty is the love of man; they are not two things, but one and the same thing. “
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@Sox
Anyone have any witty responses to a girl saying, “You look like trouble, has anyone ever told you that before?”
“Just my parole officer.”
“Usually once a day.”
“I *am* trouble.”
“Trouble is as trouble does.”
“Does it trouble you?”
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Sox:
“Yes, many, and I never disappoint.”
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namae nanka,
That was about as incoherent a follow-up as possible.
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On the e-mail exchange:
Why email doesn’t work is this: Writing isn’t speech. You lose all of the suprasegmental features of speech, which often say more than the words. Prosody is half of the communication when it comes to game. It’s all gone with words on a page.
In writing, you have no means of demonstrating emotional states that matter: disinterest; casual coolness; aloofness.
The tendency will always be to write too much.
For women: If you want to strip the game from a guy, do it over e-mail. You can suck the romance out of an interaction completely over email. Men: don’t let her email you. Beg off using some excuse. Never even bother.
Online dating – this is the biggest reason it’s impossible to use game when dating online. You’re naked; women pick on looks alone (no augmentation from game or personality allowed) and on personality (Write that bio well). Hot women online (there are a few, looking for a decent Beta provider) get millions of responses and sift through them with a deliberate casualness and cast off almost every response. They inevitably only choose very good-looking and accomplished men. It’s female choosiness at its most pure.
Actually, for hot chicks looking to avoid players, this is a good forum. But the experience of hot chicks I’ve been with is this: they end up with the same players because they only choose hot guys who are, invariably, players.
The biggest proof that Game is natural and critical?
The biggest complaint from women: they never, ever have chemistry with guys they meet over the internet. Why? There’s been no chance for game and the first time you meet it’s socially awkward and stulted.
I tried this 4-5 years ago; my experience was the same.
Email for anything is death to game.
TEXT
I’ve found that texting is great, but you need to keep it to a minimum and make it purposeful: it’s not for chatting, unless there’s serious innuendo going on. Or: it’s naughty because she has a mate and she’s not supposed to be doing it (this is always a biter).
Use it for a purpose. Always text half as much as she does.
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“That was about as incoherent a follow-up as possible.”
Think about it then, then think about it some more.
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NN: the trouble with Dilbert Hole is that he failed not only to articulate his own objection to an analogy, but then also failed to comprehend your follow-on clarification.
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Gorb,
Yes, “text half as much as she does” is the rule I recommended also.
But don’t discount email game. It is not ever good all by itself, but with a girl you have already been gaming in person and happen to be having an email exchange with, you can steer the conversation to where you want it to go more effectively than in person.
She has to know you already, and you have to write in the same “voice” you use in person with her so she can feel your presence behind the text. Like anything else, it’s a tool that can sometimes be effectively applied.
Looking forward to more comments from you today….
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All this obsessing over the man’s every typed word is why I no longer subject myself to internet dating at all.
It is a wonder any man can ever win any where, when you look at the level of analysis shown here. The poor dude was probably just typing his feelings in a pretty straight-forward manner, but look how much failure was read between the lines.
It is a horrible curse to be a well-educated, avid reader when it comes to game. Notice how every sign of intelligence or depth is discouraged by women like sdaedelus as being the domain of women. I get so tired of having to dumb everything down for the semi-literate women of today, and trying to make sure I don’t appear too feminine by displaying signs of intelligence. To me it’s just another shit test by women to allow themselves to believe that they are the intellectually superior gender.
The friend of mine who does best with e-game has the vocabulary and intellect of a fifth-grader. His grunted, non-punctuated half-sentences produce far more gina tingles than any snappy, clever repartee. Why do you think it is that women prefer idiots over intellectuals?
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Dally,
You adjust to the target. The message may have to be short, but a good writer can create a much more powerful short message than a bad one can.
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Dally:
Being a well-educated, avid reader doesn’t necessarily make someone (a) interesting or (b) an interesting or good writer. If you’re not writing a brief, memo, formal essay, or any other non-casual writing, it’s imperative to inject your own personality and point of view. My brother, who, ironically, used to be a junior high school English teacher, has more personality and wit in his punctuation-and-capital letter-free texts and Facebook status updates than anything my roommate, who has an MFA in screenwriting, has ever written.
I mean, look at GBFM. He’s no follower of Strunk & White, yet he’s one of the most popular commenters here.
That said, as polymath just pointed out, it’s always good to adjust to the target. If you’re not writing to an intellectual, there’s no point in jamming ten SAT words into every email. In that case, you run a risk of sounding like a stuffy elite who’s in love with his education and the sound of his own voice. Instant tingle killer, that.
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One other thing I thought of to add to the discussion on writing:
Years ago when I took a writing course, the instructor said that to make writing more lively, stick to shorter words with Germanic roots. The more Latin-based the word is, the more intellectual and less visceral it is, so if you have a choice between two synonyms, go with the Germanic one. Also, avoid a lot of “to be” and the passive voice.
Most of all, be concise. Good writing is clear and concise. It shows greater brainpower, discipline, and organization than something wordy and meandering. Women are turned on by powerful writing, but powerful writing doesn’t need an abundance of ten thousand dollar words.
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PA, nn –
Ok, I’ll bite, since you’re too daft to grasp the abject failure of your own analogy even when prodded to.
In no objective category, other than sheer size, is a male lion a more impressive creature than a lioness. Hence, a non-homo, non-female human or non-human observer would recognize it for what it is – a far closer analogue of a honey bee drone, than of a human male.
Now, since you two dudes’ anuses apparently start weeping at the thought of being pinned by something large, stinky and masculine – PA’s protestations of “no homo” notwithstanding – it is precisely the typical closet-homo or feminine alpha-worshipping human that would be the most likely to find a male lion more impressive.
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Personally I think a male lion is a magnificent creature but then again I am female.
It is interesting that the male lion tends to sit in state and let the lioness do most of the work. I bet if there was such a thing as a Lion Bar the lioness would have to buy the drinks. The origins of Game are of course lost in the mists of time but one wonders whether or not it could have originated through the study of male lions.
It is also interesting that a group of male lions are known as a “pride”. This reminds me of the common collective noun for Irishmen which is an “ego”.
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So now not only does Dilbert Hole get worked up about a throwaway leetle analogy comment like a junior high school debate-club nerd, he’s also conuring up images of being pinned by a heavy male or something. Gay.
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Cheer up PA, it’s perfectly possible for a man to admire another man’s beauty in an aesthetic way without actually being sexually attracted to him.
The only thing is, I can’t think of any examples. I was going to refer to Leonardo, Michelangelo and Caravaggio but an internet search has disclosed that they were all gay.
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sdaedalus and PA,
Ain’t it just like a pollock and a broad to brazenly twist a man’s words into their opposite. Whereas I might have sunk to the junior high debate level, you two went straight for the playground “I know you are, but what am I?” developmental stage.
No matter; your feeble attempts are transparent to anyone with two brain cells to put together.
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Dilbert
I’m really taken aback. I thought you needed a bit of help & was trying to help you out by proving your point that
it is precisely the….feminine alpha-worshipping human that would be the most likely to find a male lion more impressive.
Also, there is a lot of Game in the playground, little boys have natural Game, it just gets bet out of them in their pre-teen and early teen years.
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Ah, well, I misunderstood your intentions. So I’ll de-castigate you for twisting my words and re-castigate you for presuming that I need help. *wink*
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it’s perfectly possible for a man to admire another man’s beauty in an aesthetic way
What’s offputting about Dill Hole’s bizarre outburst is not the force of his overreaction to a leetle bitty throwaway analogy. It’s not his repetetive evocation of homoerotic visuals even, or his rapid-fire naming of male nether-region anatomy. It’s not really his admission of being a nerd.
What puts him over the top (or in his case, the bottom), is how he took his admiration of the male physique to the olfactory dimension, conjuring up the act of beig pinned by a big smelly male. What a closeted dweeb.
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“In no objective category, other than sheer size, is a male lion a more impressive creature than a lioness.”
How? Elaborate.
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“Cheer up PA, it’s perfectly possible for a man to admire another man’s beauty in an aesthetic way without actually being sexually attracted to him.”
lol
“The only thing is, I can’t think of any examples. I was going to refer to Leonardo, Michelangelo and Caravaggio but an internet search has disclosed that they were all gay.”
Schopenhauer wasn’t, afaik, was he bi?
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This guy should have just took a picture of his freshly birthed shit, attached it to an email hit send to: femicunt@lawyer.
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it’s perfectly possible for a man to admire another man’s beauty in an aesthetic way without actually being sexually attracted to him.”
Maybe so, if you aren’t a closet fairy like Dillbert Hole. But in his case, a mere passing mention of male humans or lions or whatever sent him into apoplectic fits. Poor little bitch.
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every sign of intelligence or depth is discouraged by women like sdaedelus as being the domain of women
I know full well this is just Underbelly Game played by an expert and aimed at using my soft-heart to bait me back onto this forum.
However I’ll play along with it.
First of all, you know full well that a woman’s intelligence and depth will not get a man attracted to her unless she satisfies his physical attractiveness threshold.
Similarly a man’s intelligence and depth is not going to get a woman attracted to him on its own. Something more primitive is also required. In a bright man, intellect, like the sun, often shines so brightly as to obscure everything else about the man, including the primitive element. That is why it is important to show you have that element too.
This is what I mean by playing against type, it is particularly important for male lawyers who do tend to get stereotyped (particularly by female lawyers) as the type of guys who read Blackstone’s Commentaries in bed at night over half-moon reading glasses before kissing their girlfriend on the cheek and turning over to dream of the bliss that is the Twelfth Amendment. This lad is unfortunately doing absolutely nothing to discourage that impression.
I think bright men are luckier than bright women though, because once the necessary standard of primitiveness is obtained and retained, intellectual smarts do make a difference.
Although some men like to say intelligence does matter in women once the necessary threshold is passed, I’m not sure that’s the case, certainly not for a lot of men and even the ones who rate intelligence only rate it up to a certain level, this is a damn nuisance as it is very difficult first to gauge the maximum limit of intelligence permitted and then limit oneself to that level.
So it is not true to say that I am discouraging intelligence in men from point of view of attracting the opposite sex, I am just saying that it is not enough, other things are needed too. It would be much worse if you were a woman, then I would be leaving out the “too”.
Also, once a man has grasped Basic Game principles, he can start breaking the rules a little as regards showing knowledge of grammar, talent at language etc.
But only really highly qualified practitioners of Advanced Game should ever use hyperbole or words like “my dear”, you would need to be at the Lord Byron stage of alphaness to pull this off successfully.
By the way if you want an example of clever, smart, male repartee without excessive spelling or grammar mistakes, Talleyrand from Tumult and Discord, Default User are all very good at this, read their interactions with female commenters in particular – key, they keep their sentences short and punchy, no brackets (I note that, significantly, CH doesn’t capitalise in interactions with commenters)
But I don’t think that the email guy should take them as models yet, he needs to go back to basics first and only when he has mastered the basics go on to the next level of intellectual repartee.
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You know well that there was no forceful reaction to your throwaway analogy (apt phrase!), but only to your attempt at glib deflection/attack, which, in all your daftness, you’re keeping up. Were you a woman, I’d wager that you’re trying to provoke a grudge fuck. Oh, wait… could it be… shit, now I feel taken advantage of!
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Weak. And gayer than your earlier crap.
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Aunt Haley said:
“Years ago when I took a writing course, the instructor said that to make writing more lively, stick to shorter words with Germanic roots. The more Latin-based the word is, the more intellectual and less visceral it is, so if you have a choice between two synonyms, go with the Germanic one. Also, avoid a lot of ‘to be’ and the passive voice.”
Yup, be like Stallone… Yo, Adrian! Do we get to win this time? You’re the disease and I’m da cure! I am da law!
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Either that or Schwarzenegger… Get to da choppa!
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Squeal like a pig!
You have obviously NEVER gotten over losing your first wife.
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“One group…. PUAs… will get women… but will they keep them?”
Because every man is pining for PUA leftovers…..
Better question: Do they want to keep them?
Even better question: Does anyone want to keep them now??
Change your name to “severely retarded”.
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@Borderline Retard
Yes.
They will. And also take them away from angry Betas.
Don’t have to believe me.
Why are voluntary betas so simpering?
Squeal like a pig!
You have obviously NEVER gotten over losing your first wife.
Oink Oink.
I’m the first to admit that there’s bitterness left. I’m bitter at women and men for teaching me to be such a tool. At society for selling me a bill of goods. If I ignored them and gamed my wife, she’d be devoted to me still.
And as for bitterness, … I have no bitterness at wilfully ignorant self-flagellating dickless tools like you.
Just pity.
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G,
Shouldn’t your bitterness be dissolving pretty soon? Or do you have a new reason to be bitter?
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Why bitter at men? If they themselves knew they would have told you, or probably you didn’t listen to the ones who did.
And why bitter at women? They know nothing. 🙂
Kids?
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“Anyone have any witty responses to a girl saying, “You look like trouble, has anyone ever told you that before?””
Only my probation officer.
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polymath
Shouldn’t your bitterness be dissolving pretty soon? Or do you have a new reason to be bitter?
I think the social lies told to men are despicable. That angry, bitter men who refuse to stop deluding themselves assault the very idea of game is just a further sign of their being tooled.
It’s a great thing to see feminism and male-female equalism lose another tool when a guy learns Game.
No new bitterness. Quite the opposite, in fact. I’m digesting.
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Remember: Brevity is what matters a whole, whole lot in wit.
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@polymath
Gorb,
Yes, “text half as much as she does” is the rule I recommended also.
But don’t discount email game. It is not ever good all by itself, but with a girl you have already been gaming in person and happen to be having an email exchange with, you can steer the conversation to where you want it to go more effectively than in person.
My point is that there’s very little to gain, and a lot to lose.
You have to keep the emails short, and geared to getting more interpersonal contact. Sexual commentary in words seems silly. Only if you hint at previous memories is it valuable.
There are lots of chances to lose out, and few to win.
She has to know you already, and you have to write in the same “voice” you use in person with her so she can feel your presence behind the text. Like anything else, it’s a tool that can sometimes be effectively applied.
You have to be an expert at all times. One failure can sink you hard. Not really worth it.
I think
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Vincent Ignatius–
“Beta Gore is getting divorced while alpha asshole Bill is still married.”
Except that it’s not a marriage; it’s a business deal. Hilary gets her gina tinges for being Sec’y of State, not from Bill. I’d bet it’s been years since they’ve had sex–at least with each other.
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Hey, You should post some tips on text messaging game. E-mailing rarely comes into play, but all girls are into texting now-a-day. Just genreal and specific tips.
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“Except that it’s not a marriage; it’s a business deal. ”
It can be credibly argued that all of marriage is a business deal; in the past it was unshamedly so, today the “power marriage” is seen as unseemingly even as “marriage for love” has been shown a social failure.
You know, I do wonder where Bill is getting it…we all know the details of Tiger Woods’ floozies, I’m surprised we haven’t seen any exposes of Slick Willie’s latter-day paramours.
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Dillbert Hole
“In no objective category, other than sheer size, is a male lion a more impressive creature than a lioness. “
Lions hunt alone, they can kill bigger preys, defend the pride against predators that no single lioness can stand up to.
Lions are not stealthy as lionesses but they can still roam jungles alone and hunt while lionesses stay in packs.Of course lionesses are good at hunting in numbers but then even hyenas are good in numbers and so are dogs.
Then lion has honor, he kills the other lion’s cubs.And he doesn’t make two bones about it in order to get into her pants.
The lionesses do try to stop him or at least make a pretense to do so, but if he has become the pride owner they will fuck the same lion even though he might have killed their cubs.
It’s the size difference that allows him to do so.And the mane also helps.That sheer size advantage that you speak of sounds like feminist garbage.
“Hence, a non-homo, non-female human or non-human observer”
My sexuality doesn’t change facts.
” would recognize it for what it is – a far closer analogue of a honey bee drone, than of a human male.”
I think you believe that lions sit on their asses and do nothing; nothing could be farther from the truth.Look for some post-feminist-tainted-nonsense that lions sit at home while lionesses chase food.
Start with some youtube videos:
and remember that lionesses commit infanticide too.But don’t have the nerve to do go into another pride’s zone and do it there.
Lion represents an alpha male with a harem or with the will to achieve one.They protect and they can provide.Of course when your wive can kill most of the small fry to feed the cubs you don’t need to hunt that often with the pack.
Male drones are beta orbiters, ready to fuck with the queen when she wants.How are they similar?
Honey bee drone is what men are becoming today,superfluous and not even needed for fertilisation. And unless they turn into feminized worker bees they get broken down by the masculine institutes that control the power.
http://dissidentphilosophy.lifediscussion.net/society-f3/the-feminization-of-mankind-t370.htm
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namae nanka, PA
– You’re right, it’s the male lions that have always been the symbol of power and nobility, from Ancient Persia to the Royal coat of arms of many countries.
With all due respect to the lionesses.
In relation to the discussion of aesthetic admiration – not all the Old Masters were like Leonardo and the gang.
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And you speak of sheer size difference as if that doesn’t matter?
Many differences between the attitude of men and women also arise from the size difference between them.The brain differences play a role too but it’s naive to think that physical differences don’t.
Why else girls who are taller,stronger in middle school suddenly start wetting their panties for boys after boys reach puberty? Because their voices crack? or because they grow facial hair?
No, it’s because they get taller and muscular.
Why are dominatrixes are tall women or wear high stilletos? Why do most men who give into submissive fantasies are generally men who lack either height or muscles?
“Now, since you two dudes’ anuses apparently start weeping at the thought of being pinned by something large, stinky and masculine – PA’s protestations of “no homo” notwithstanding – it is precisely the typical closet-homo or feminine alpha-worshipping human that would be the most likely to find a male lion more impressive.”
I am so straight that I am gonna break.Closet homo haha, I have watched homo porn for amusement and no it doesn’t get my dick hard.
I am telling you this because I don’t care about my personal details nor do I care about what you think of me. I have thought about my stuff and I don’t like to spew garbage.
There is no feminine alpha, there are only masculine alphas, male or female doesn’t matter.That which is more masculine gets to penetrate, end of story.That which gets penetrated by the most masculine becomes the female ideal.
Masculinity in humans is more a state of mind than of body, probably completely, but monks weren’t celibate for no reason.
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“You’re right, it’s the male lions that have always been the symbol of power and nobility, from Ancient Persia to the Royal coat of arms of many countries.”
All the more reason to degrade its status.
“In relation to the discussion of aesthetic admiration – not all the Old Masters were like Leonardo and the gang.”
God made man intelligent and foolish; intelligent, that woman might love him; and foolish, that he might love her.
Beauty as I see it, is merely the extension of a man’s foolishness as Schopenhauer puts it straightforwardly.
Love is a result of man’s projection of ideal on a woman since he finds sin in himself and hence can’t love a man knowing that men are like him.Beauty is the result of this love.
So you can put in beauty above and it won’t change, if you define beauty from a woman or a homo’s perspective as the appreciation of masculine features in a man.
And it will be truer than the other way round.
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F , that was actually painful to read.
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These latest posts don’t sound like ch. Are there multiple bloggers on this site? This last entry is lacking his usual verbal dexterity and reads like a different voice.
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?I disagree .. hoping for the “good ole times” is weakness .. real men deal with the way the world is not as they wish it to be .. Life has always been hard and brutal .. nobody gives anything to you .. you gotta take it .. I am glad that there is a community of men that share their experiences and insights .. to make life easier .. the massively wired world hugely favors the smart men .. smart not as in “i can prove Reiman zeta hypothesis” .. smart as in ” oh this is the way this shit works .. now how do i push my advantage”
Saying the current state of America has anything to do with the real world is a joke. You think 50 years from now U Go Girl Culture will still be around? As a great mind once said, lozzzllllloooooozzzlllllllloooool.
I have no idea about the “good ole times,” as all I have ever known is a country that dosen’t really like men very much, unless he’s an alpha. But I would say this, I doubt U go girlism will last, and when it finally does come to end I will probably wish I had been born then, regardless of the shitty state the entire world probably will be in.
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Gorb,
“You have to be an expert at all times. One failure can sink you hard. Not really worth it.”
Agree that you have to be an expert, because if you screw up it is there for her to review over and over, while if you just say something stupid it dissipates over time.
But there used to be a major chapter of Game about letter-writing, back when people wrote letters. It could be a very powerful tool. The only reason emailers fail is because they are used to treating emails casually and superficially rather than carefully and thoughtfully.
Because of many years as a consultant and executive, I am a master of effective written communication, mostly by email. I’ve written tens of thousands of emails and have never had a major screwup.
When writing personal emails, the additional trick you need is the ability to make your “voice” come across so that your presence can be sensed. Before email, when people sent letters, this was easy if you hand-wrote them.
My first couple of years in college my high school GF and I dated others, but because I wrote her great letters, when I saw her during the summers she was just as attached to me as ever. We weren’t really compatible for a LTR but the fact that I could maintain this connection and still be on great terms with her (and also with another ex-GF) was a huge qualifier for me, my wife says it is the main thing that gave her the confidence to go for me.
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Okay.
It IS possible to game a girl via email.
Recent experience has shown this.
Assuming you’re already sleeping with her, and she’s hugely into you, you can maintain a sensibility or a feeling through e-mail; but you have to be even more on your toes than usual.
In the context of a current situation, if you’ re running nuclear-powered Domination Game and it’s on the edge of your seat, then you can actually choose to be a perfect gentleman in e-mail; it works in your favour.
You still need to limit it, but you can do it. What’s interesting is segmenting the intellectual and raw sexual components of a relationship: you can keep the emails intellectual, and gentlemanly, and then ramp up the sexual presence and the raw chemistry in person.
Then you stroke both parts of the brain: fore and hind.
PS, Polymath, Sdaedalus et al:
Unbelievable results. There was no sleep mid-week. Physical exhaustion. To the point of consumption.
Nuclear Game continued. No hesitation any more: and the intensity has been amped up several factors.
Walawala’s and Polymath’s suggestions re management have now become crucial; but also crucial components of game.
Nuclear, push-pull, never stop.
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Gorbachev
I am delighted. I didn’t want to say it before, in case it might put you off your Game, but she sounds like a lovely girl. Well done. Enjoy yourselves. There is nothing like the bliss of falling in love.
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Badger Nation–“It can be credibly argued that all of marriage is a business deal; in the past it was unshamedly so, today the “power marriage” is seen as unseemingly even as “marriage for love” has been shown a social failure.”
It may well be that the arranged marriages of the past– where the ground rules and roles were explicit and everyone know what to expect–were more sucessful than modern marriage. OTOH, there is a lot of argument with the methodology used to deteremine that 50% of all marriages fail. My point however was that I doubted the Clinton marriage was ever an attempt at having any sort of emotional/sexual/family building relationship. Their goal was to help each other politically.
“”I’m surprised we haven’t seen any exposes of Slick Willie’s latter-day paramours”
That’s a great observation! Perhaps she cut it off and permanently retired him. More likely, she made it clear that, if he wants to be around for her next run at the White Office, he needs to either keep it in his pants or be extraordinarally discreet. Or maybe he’s just gotten old.
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Badger Nation–Whoops, Anonymous above is me.
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I’m fairly new to “game” as such, and I’m a bit confused by some recent advice from commenters here about not showing any intolerance when a woman flakes on you.
Acting like it’s okay sounds like failing a shit test.
Maybe I read the advice wrong.
But, for example, from my experience, when a woman calls you an hour before a lunch date with a lame excuse why she can’t make it, if you act like that’s okay, isn’t that like telling her it’s okay to treat you badly, so go ahead and do it again soon? Doesn’t that reduce your self-respect and reduce her respect for you, her attraction to you, etc?
This behavior really reduces my interest in seeing her, and the best response I know of is to let it be obvious to her that my interest just dropped a lot. Then either she can show me she is eager to make it up to me, or I’m fairly indifferent to her. At that point, I’m waiting to hear the crucial words “Let me make it up to you”, followed by some kind of offer, like “Lunch will be on me”, because talk is cheap, and just saying “I’m sorry” doesn’t make up for wasting my time with inconsideration. Also, if you act like her saying “I’m sorry” is all it takes to make it okay, you’re telling her she can treat you poorly again and all she has to do to nullify it is say those two words.
Maybe my example doesn’t match the examples on which other readers were commenting — ‘Act like you don’t suspect she’s lying about why she can’t see you, because this never happens to you’. That sounds like letting her think you’re a fool, ready to believe more obvious lies from her.
Like I said, I’m confused by the advice I read about this here. Any genuine comments on this are welcome.
[editor: you shouldn’t show tolerance for flaky behavior, but neither should you show that her flakiness got to you. act like you would act if some random dude flaked on you. you wouldn’t care, right? that’s the feeling, and hence the associated behavior, that you must mimic.
aaaaand, i’m outta here!]
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@sdaedalus
Gorbachev
I am delighted. I didn’t want to say it before, in case it might put you off your Game, but she sounds like a lovely girl. Well done. Enjoy yourselves. There is nothing like the bliss of falling in love.
Sdaedalus,
You seem to have hit on something, something that is beginning to sink in. It’s that word, four letters, and it doesn’t begin with F.
Risk Of Affection
When you invest a lot in gaming a girl, because, well, she’s just so scorching hot you have no idea what business you have even trying, and then you get beyond the hot thing and find out – wow, there’s a huge amount of character in there, and a minimum of vapidity (though, indeed, a large collection of shoes and accessories), and she’s – shockingly – sweet and charming, as well, and if not actually modest, then not hyper-inflated, …
Then you find something happening.
I’ve done this for years. I have relatively considerable experience with women, STRS and LTRS and 2-4NSs, etc., in varying environments and a few continents, and yet —
I find myself uncomfortably exhilaratingly in the position of doing exactly what Sdaedalus suggests.
Falling in love.
Or at least, severe lust, definite infatuation and absolutely unmistaken fascination.
And what’s more: this has all been a result of game. I’m going to say this about men:
If a man has a soul left, and he games a girl hard and invests in it emotionally, then: he risks falling in love, long-term. Or something approximating it.
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Hey Gorbachev,
Congrats and ‘Good on ya’.
Now don’t be shy about sharing particulars, for those of us who go through periods of preferring to live vicariously…
Seriously, that’s great news bud.
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Gaming on Edge: Multiple Approaches
Note: I have no idea about other men she’s seeing. Frankly, I don’t care right now; actually, I’ve subtly put it out that it’s not to be discussed, but is to be sorted out:
Her: “Are you seeing anyone else right now?” (She knows I’m divorced, and suspects I’m popular, given that she’s into me, I guess).
Me: It’s complicated.
(hahaha – I actually said this. It was all for you people.)
Her: Complicated?
Me: I didn’t expect to meet you. (stare into her eyes, shake head)
Her: We should talk about it.
GAME: I’m thinking: I need time, and I want to use this to my advantage in several ways.
Me: Take some time. Tell me when you can.
(puts pressure back on her: redirect).
Wednesday Night
Went as planned. Almost no communication. Afternoon, text:
Me: Come at 8:30
Delay: 30 s
Her: I’ll bring my shoes.
Delay: 20 min
Me: Wear white.
(again: why not?)
Okay.
She shows up at 8:45, smiling and comes in. I kiss her, without delay, intensely; then break away and direct her to sit down (more Command Game).
She settles onto the sofa.
She’s wearing a tightly-fitting, but filmy white dress; it’s hot out. She wanders through the condo, checking it out. We’re looking at each other sidelong the entire time. Casual glances. Little lingering stares.
We’re talking about food, and what we can make, and when to leave for the latin club, …
I let our eyes meet, as we’re discussing it, and then I reached over, kissed her, …
And I decided: Nuclear game.
She’s not here to go out dancing. We both know it’s a pretext.
I push her onto the sofa, and proceed to insistently but without force make out with her for a hundred thousand years; after she’s in a desperately exhausted orgasmic haze (and I’m no longer capable of control), I stop, look her in the eyes, and say, …
“Do you want me to make love to you?”
There’s a pause; she looks at me, a question passes over her eyes, I wonder again if this is a good idea. She looks like she’s thinking, … why is he asking me (is my game off?), what should I do, and then there’s a kind of joyful desperate something in her eyes, and she kisses me.
I have never so totally controlled a woman before. She just gave herself to me, utterly.
Any guy who has not done this or experienced this has not lived. Period.
TIME ARRIVES
What ensues is the most intense, desperate lovemaking/sex/fucking/grinding I have done in I don’t remember when.
I’ve never had such a gorgeous woman. And she’s working her way into me.
Needless to say, it lasted about 9 hours. Hard; sexy; gentle; romantic; wild; pounding; loud; quiet; satisfying; calm. Controlled, wild abandon. It was unbelievable.
* Notes: She later says that no man – in her lifetime – has been like this with her. It’s not comparable.
I say nothing, but the same is true for me. The tension, my planning, my desperate desire: I don’t know how to deal with it.
The importance of maintaining hans id absolute.
Notes
– Domination Game works for sex, as well. It makes women absolutely uncontrollable. In sex, give them the Romantic Hero from the romance novel who takes her without question. I mean, use it properly – but be sure. Read her well and give her what she wants without her asking. But it means when you fuck her, you have to give it to her like a man who knows exactly what to do: generous on his terms, and ravish her without remorse or relenting.
– Everything delivered in the heat of orgasm is a hundred times more powerful than otherwise. Any game played then hits straight to her hindbrain: You own her. She has no defences. Deliver it hard.
– Make the most of the time when she’s wrapped around you. Bring her in close; if you share your emotions with her, you gain what all her ONSs and lovers don’t give her: You get her soul.
– Objections should never be dealt with using words at that point. ALWAYS fall back on MORE SEX. Either your unbridled and uncontrolled lust or her explosive absorption. Either way
“What does that mean, …” = Fuck her harder and longer. Devour her for hours. Absorb her. Feel her nervous system. Everything is answered by screaming orgasms. Tolerate no objection. She has a problem = answer with orgasms.
By morning, I can safely say: I had stamped my name on her with a brand. But, alas, she was doing the same thing to me.
So I played nuclear sex, along with nuclear game. She had doe-like eyes, long sighs with languorous caresses and long stares.
Morning:
I sleep for an hour, then get up early to go to the loo.
I make food (eggs benedict, fresh OJ, sliced fruit). No words, didn’t ask her. It’s not beta: I want to eat, I bring food, expect her to eat.
I bring it in and present it. Not a request, just a statement: Eat. Accept this from me.
We eat, then have about 3 more hours of sex. I can’t get enough of her. We lay in bed talking like we’ve known each other forever. Lots of touching.
BTW, this is not all game. I have to concentrate. I am uttelry lost by this point.
THE ISSUE: DEALING WITH OTHER GUYS
Then a subject comes up. I suspect there’s another guy (a floater, some dude, whatever. I frankly don’t care).
She says: “We need to talk about something.”
Me: “I think I know what you mean.”
Pause.
She’s going to tell me about some complication, some guy. I should take this as an opportunity; I can keep it nebulous, let her have complications, so I can keep mine. But I don’t want competition with this woman: Long-term, I can’t afford it, which I know, and I want to own her.
I’m not going to get into a contest with other men (which I might lose, long-term, if I let them hang around), and I don’t want to share her. At all.
Me: “Don’t tell me. It’s O.K.”
Silence.
More nuclear game. I have to use the same dynamic.
I’ve spent all night fucking her stupid. No man has ever been like this with her. I need to take maximum advantage of this state.
I look at her, straight in the eye. I say,
Me: ‘Do something about it. Tell me if I need to know anything.”
Me: “Next week.”
She looks at me, stares at me.
I get up, go to the bathroom, then the kitchen. Discussion is over.
i.e.: unsaid: Get rid of complications. You have a week. Implication: I will do the same (unsaid).
* More Domination Game. Can I get her to get rid of other men?
If this works: INCREDIBLE.
Just TRYING to dominate (so long as you never break frame at important moments) is exhausting.
I’ve never had anything like this frame of mind before.
I come back, get ready for work; I’m going to leave her in my place and let her show herself out. I tell her she can have the run of the place.
I gently say, laughing, “And if you like, you can do the dishes too,” and laugh.
I leave, kiss her, try not to just fall all over myself and say PLEASE NEVER LEAVE ME YOU AMAZING WOMAN, and leave.
Wednesday:
Text message, 1:00
Her: “Come to my place Saturday”
Delay: 20 min
Me: “Make something yummy.”
(domination)
Night:
Get home from work.
The dishes are done and my bed is made.
*** HOW LONG CAN I KEEP THIS UP? ***
Un be freaking lievable.
*ANY* dickless loser who says that
GAME IS NOT RELEVANT
IS A TOTAL RETARD.
Can I shout it any louder?
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G,
You described exactly what I expected would happen, but it was still thrilling to read about — better than any fiction or even nonfiction account of seduction because of vicarious participation.
The one surprise is that she had management issues too, perfect for you because the mutual renunciations will in her mind bind you even closer together.
Our host has refrained from commenting (maybe some sort of Prime Directive on his part), but I think in his secret romantic heart he’s giving you fist pumps and high fives and feeling uncharacteristically touched that he made this possible.
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@polymath
The one surprise is that she had management issues too, perfect for you because the mutual renunciations will in her mind bind you even closer together.
Exactly what I thought. I also don’t want to ASK her to get rid of them. I want her to get rid of other men because she wants me.
The difference is huge.
Our host has refrained from commenting (maybe some sort of Prime Directive on his part), but I think in his secret romantic heart he’s giving you fist pumps and high fives and feeling uncharacteristically touched that he made this possible.
I’m sure he’s got better things to do. There are lots of stories out there, and I suspect he’s been here many times.
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Gorbachev, inspiring and brilliantly narrated. I especially appreciate your inclusion of your inner thought process and constant battle with amazing disbelief.
That is the exact same issues I had to contend with when I first began to try out game concepts. You can’t believe that it’s working…but it IS! HOLY SHIT, why didn’t I know about this before??!?!?!
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@Dave from Hawaii
I especially appreciate your inclusion of your inner thought process and constant battle with amazing disbelief.
There’s no reason – despite my pretty impressive track record – for me to have thought I could do this. It’s hard to convey just hot truly unbelievable this is. I’ve been with 7’s, 7.5’s, 8’s, and some of them were pretty impressive people (some were just hot – which is no small thing, but less impressive).
This one is a huge, major score. Hot, smart, classy, utterly unavailable: she has no shortage of male attention, I’m sure.
That is the exact same issues I had to contend with when I first began to try out game concepts. You can’t believe that it’s working…but it IS! HOLY SHIT, why didn’t I know about this before??!?!?!
I was like this when I first learned game. But I never expected to be able to do this on this level: I’m having to re-learn techniques, practice frame, and just keep it together.
And learn how to ramp it up hard, fast, and keep it single-mindedly focused.
And having done this before, I now the pitfalls. They’re all magnified hugely at this point.
And the risk of loss: I can’t maintain the “I just don’t care if you go” frame, if she tests it; which means I have to keep her off balance as long as possible and as hard as possible.
WW told me last night:
Dude, good luck. You know you’re doomed.
Hm.
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@ Gorbachev,
Damn buddy. What a story. Whew.
I need a cigarette.
And I don’t even smoke.
Hmm, can’t decide whether to let your story give me a reason to feel hopeful about my own pathetic life, or to just kill myself now and get it over with. Tough call.
I’d never have to do all that boring crap I keep putting off doing, nor remember what a damned waste my best years were mostly.
Then again, I could always off myself later, and I’ve gotten pretty good at living in denial, and I enjoy my delusions about my potential to defy common presumptions about the dismal possibilities for a man over forty. Yup, gonna dazzle lots of people (or just a few women) one of these days, who knows, maybe even this summer, uh huh, yeah, I just know it…
Anyway Gorbachev, thanks for telling your story, as requested, and giving a glimpse of glorious possibilities.
Now that’s my kind of glasnost, comrade.
Best wishes for continuing success with PCG.
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@Gorby
“”I look at her, straight in the eye. I say,
Me: ‘Do something about it. Tell me if I need to know anything.”
Me: “Next week.”
She looks at me, stares at me.
I get up, go to the bathroom, then the kitchen. Discussion is over.
i.e.: unsaid: Get rid of complications. You have a week. Implication: I will do the same (unsaid).
* More Domination Game. Can I get her to get rid of other men?
If this works: INCREDIBLE.
Just TRYING to dominate (so long as you never break frame at important moments) is exhausting.””
This is something that I’m picking up recently too.
It’s a perceptual shift and internal shift from beta to alpha.
If you understand the psychology of domination game, you can plow ahead and calibrate as you go along.
Any sign of weakness in this statement….
Me: ‘Do something about it. Tell me if I need to know anything.”
Me: “Next week.”
She looks at me, stares at me.
…and you’re finished.
I’ve noticed that this is where she could insert shit-test….
Gorby, I’m using your situation to calibrate my own approaches.
Learnings:
1) Domination game is best when introduced from the start….make your intentions known
2) In Domination Game, you don’t need to be an asshole, just cool and confident and mysterious
3) Domination Game, means keeping it short and simple in all communication especially text
One thing about your situation that I would have trouble with if I found myself in it, is the danger about being ‘needy’.
After a night like yours with an 8 or 9, I’d be worried that I couldn’t keep it up.
After that is when the shit-tests start to test whether you’re authentic about Domination Game.
Any slip-up and they get disappointed and that’s where the power shift takes place.
Before understanding game…I’d stop gaming when I had a night like yours.
I think after a night like that…you need to ramp up your game a bit…become a bit more scarce just to confirm to her that everything that happened was because you’re THE MAN and not some coincidence.
I see from your situation that where I’ve blown it longer term is to drop game.
The game is just starting for her, she’ll be 100% more aware of the way you talk, act, dress and bang her.
Game is also about being more self-aware.
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CH needs a better forum. There are many game examples that would be great to hear. I know I’d love to hear more.
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@walawala
“Just TRYING to dominate (so long as you never break frame at important moments) is exhausting.””
It’s a perceptual shift and internal shift from beta to alpha.
If you understand the psychology of domination game, you can plow ahead and calibrate as you go along.
I’d never done it before. It’s not easy. Every step has to be carefully calculated.
Any sign of weakness in this statement….
Me: ‘Do something about it. Tell me if I need to know anything.”
Me: “Next week.”
She looks at me, stares at me.
…and you’re finished.
I was like a rock: I meant it. But by this time with PCG, I’ve got some hand; now it’s maintaining it and ramping it up.
I have some credibility by now: I’ve been able to demand and command, and have consistently maintained it. She was curious at first; then drawn in; and then absorbed.
Wednesday, she and I were just consumed.
Now, … it’s mine to lose. I need to maintain this.
It’s not easy.
I’ve noticed that this is where she could insert shit-test….
I expected it. I left the conversation, and issued the statement as a command: a statement of fact. Not to be debated. And then looked for assertion, and left. No debate.
I did the same Wednesday night.
Incidentally, that’s the ticket to truly intense sex. Actually, it’s not just sex. It’s something else. Really.
Gorby, I’m using your situation to calibrate my own approaches.
Learnings:
1) Domination game is best when introduced from the start….make your intentions known
Do it from the beginning as if this is the only way it can be?
2) In Domination Game, you don’t need to be an asshole, just cool and confident and mysterious
Actually, DON’T be an asshole. You command by respect, you expect it. You command it. But you need hard game.
3) Domination Game, means keeping it short and simple in all communication especially text
One thing about your situation that I would have trouble with if I found myself in it, is the danger about being ‘needy’.
Fuck, man, I find it hard not to be. All the time. I just want to bury my head in her (breathtaking) breasts and smile at her. Call her in the middle of the day. Text her. Ask her if she likes me. Everything a Beta does (I did). I have to imagine her in a serial gangbang (which kinda turns me on, actually) to bring her down a notch, though I know she likely hasn’t been in one. I know what might fuck me up. I used to do it. I unlearned it. But I still want to.
After a night like yours with an 8 or 9, I’d be worried that I couldn’t keep it up.
After that is when the shit-tests start to test whether you’re authentic about Domination Game.
Any slip-up and they get disappointed and that’s where the power shift takes place.
You need to keep it up all the time. It becomes you.
Before understanding game…I’d stop gaming when I had a night like yours.
I think after a night like that…you need to ramp up your game a bit…become a bit more scarce just to confirm to her that everything that happened was because you’re THE MAN and not some coincidence.
I plan on controlling the situation. You need to breeze through all shit-tests. I have no idea whether or not failing a shit-test would blow the Domination game.
So far, it’s been Shock-And-Awe.
I see from your situation that where I’ve blown it longer term is to drop game.
The game is just starting for her, she’ll be 100% more aware of the way you talk, act, dress and bang her.
Game is also about being more self-aware.
I’m hoping this is just starting. Which means, …
It’s just starting.
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Gorbachev,
I posted a reply to you, but it has been “awaiting moderation” for 2 hours now.
Maybe it’s more like awaiting The Second Coming.
Perhaps it will post before the 4th of July.
Meanwhile, as for your story,
well played, well written, well done old chap.
Cheers.
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@ Slow-learner
“”I’m fairly new to “game” as such, and I’m a bit confused by some recent advice from commenters here about not showing any intolerance when a woman flakes on you.
Acting like it’s okay sounds like failing a shit test.””
Let me give you 2 examples:
Before I understood game, girl flakes on me. It was lame. We were supposed to go to dinner and she was to make the reservations on a Wednesday because I was traveling.
I MSN her on Friday with “Hey…” Her response is: “Oh, I’m not feeling well, I didnt’ make the reservations.”
My response: “Oh….”
Her: More lame explanation.
Me: nothing….
I see her that night and ignore her. Next morning, she MSN’s me…calls me…then sends me an angry text about ignoring her.
I wait 4 hours. Then I make a bit of a tactical error. I text: “When we make plans and you cancel, it makes it hard to trust you. You didn’t respect my time.”
She responds with some nonsense rationalizing it.
I now have hand…
Then…I blow it. She writes the next day and apologizes. I STUPIDLY ACCEPT HER APOLOGY.
What I should have done….nothing…no response. I should have waited a week. Then written or called back to say: “Let’s meet XXX at XXX”.
My strong reaction prompted a shit-test…which I failed.
In subsequent situations, I now see how when I’ve reacted, I’ve indicated/suggested/or somehow communicated that she matters to me.
By doing that early, it gives her a subtle advantage in the game. I means she has hand and I don’t.
By NOT REACTING…but waiting for her to get back to you, you raise your value.
Then by telling her: “Meet me XXX at XXX” you give her the option of submitting or walking away.
Either way…you don’t care.
THAT IS WHAT I”VE LEARNED.
The minute it looks like it matters…you’re finished.
Having said that…I think in some cases, you have to imply that the door is open if she makes the effort.
This can be something simple like waiting a few weeks and sending a “trial text” saying “Hey, what up?” See the post here on “Trial Texting” for details.
The point of game is to understand that with girls, they’re seeking dominance but need to make sure whoever they’re going to bang is worth their time.
You have to shift that dynamic to make her feel that you’re the prize, that by spending time with you, she’s getting that prize.
That hardest thing is to constantly be listening and thinking several moves ahead in any interaction.
Read through the posts…he covers most scenarios.
Try out the different techniques and see what works. Then you’ll start to be more comfortable with being more assertive, dominant and not giving a shit whether she cancels or not because you’ve got something better to do. It’s her loss.
That’s inner game. Google it, read about it…then start practicing it. You’ll be surprised at the results. They may not be instant, but the more you implement it, the more you’ll gain confidence.
Hope that helps.
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@Lazyguy,
@ Gorbachev,
Damn buddy. What a story. Whew.
I need a cigarette.
And I don’t even smoke.
Happened as told. This should all be instructive to schmoes who don’t get game.
I.E., Learn Game.
Hmm, can’t decide whether to let your story give me a reason to feel hopeful about my own pathetic life, or to just kill myself now and get it over with. Tough call.
I was a total puss and unreformed weenie 5 years ago. It was agony getting out of it.
When I did – I realized: Holy crap. I wasted 10 years of my life.
Get Game.
I’d never have to do all that boring crap I keep putting off doing, nor remember what a damned waste my best years were mostly.
I lost 10 years. Lost them. An utter waste. I had more sex, better sex, and more women (by factors) in the years after getting my ass dumped and divorced. The entirety of it was the result of game.
I’m a perfect case for Normal Guy Learning Game.
The current story is irrelevant for you – that’s just a great special case of game at work.
Any PUA could tell you stories that would make you run out and reform right now. I had a crazy year in which I slept with more and hotter women every 3 months. It was unbelievable. It *does* eventually pale, though.
I was unexceptional. I was also in Asia, which helped hugely, and I had an interesting job.
Then again, I could always off myself later, and I’ve gotten pretty good at living in denial, and I enjoy my delusions about my potential to defy common presumptions about the dismal possibilities for a man over forty. Yup, gonna dazzle lots of people (or just a few women) one of these days, who knows, maybe even this summer, uh huh, yeah, I just know it…
Actually, I’m still a hard-core romantic. Just a jaded one. All of my core beliefs about women, men and society were utterly trashed – and I learned that they were all delusions.
Start with Mystery.
Anyway Gorbachev, thanks for telling your story, as requested, and giving a glimpse of glorious possibilities.
Now that’s my kind of glasnost, comrade.
It’s interesting to me, too. I always wished guys would tell their stories; knowledge is meant to be shared, right?
Anyway, if I crash and burn, I might report it, too.
And then the sharks can start in.
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@Lazyguy,
Then again, I could always off myself later, and I’ve gotten pretty good at living in denial, and I enjoy my delusions about my potential to defy common presumptions about the dismal possibilities for a man over forty. Yup, gonna dazzle lots of people (or just a few women) one of these days, who knows, maybe even this summer, uh huh, yeah, I just know it…
Hey,
I know two guys over 40 who seem inordinately lucky. One is getting married to a very hot and interesting 26 (27?) year-old; he’s 42. They’re going to have children. The other just has serial GFs from 24-32 years old. Every 2-6 months or so he trades up. There’s lots of overlap.
And, BTW, 30-35 years olds are fair game and pretty freaking desperate.
I was insulted by one last week, when I mentioned that my GF (ahem) was 26 (I’m… older). One of the women present (36) accused me of being a typical jerky guy for not dating women my own age – I didn’t respect younger women, I was just using them. What I wanted to say was: I date them, well, mostly because I can.
I didn’t know what to say – but the general bitterness that this showed was remarkable.
Anyway, absolutely ignore what you know about women. Anything women tell you about what they want is malarky.
1) It’s Unethical.
Whatever. Like a gun, you an use it to tool women or to be the best lover you can. Your choice. Just a tool. Women just don’t get it, and why? It’s because they only want “Natural” alphas – and they think learning attitudes or game is cheating. Don’t feel the slightest qualms about using game. They’re sharks, and relentlessly vicious and dismissive of men. Learn how to get past their defenses if you want to relate to them.
2) It’s like lipstick for fat chicks
Okay, you’re not going to score 9s (I kept telling myself this: !!), but you can do better than you think (usually 1 point lower than you or less; you can move that up to 1-2 points better than you).
3) It’s only for picking up women. Not useful for relating.
Wrong: It’s most useful for LTRs. Use game in a relationship and you need never break up or get divorced, and have her glued to you (with modifications for different situations) for the rest of your life.
When they grudgingly admit that Game has womens’ attraction-psychology pegged hard,
They’ll say this:
Oh, maybe game helps with tarty 21-year-olds.
Oh, maybe game helps with sluts.
Oh, maybe game helps with stupid women.
Well, game helps with all of these.
it’s especially effective with:
Women from 30-40 (like shooting turkeys in a farmyard)
Smart women (smarter = fall harder every time)
Less attractive women (6.5 and lower: Score)
Women who don’t have varied dating experiences
Women who’ve seriously been around
…
Basically, all women.
Don’t listen to anti-Game shit. Just ignore it. Just ignore it and do it and tell all of your friends to read up on it.
Seriously, in my opinion, had I male children, I’d teach them Game and tell them it was *the* single most important male-female relationship tool they’d ever have.
And any woman they’d ever be with would thank them for it.
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@ editor & walawala,
Thanks for your input.
Sounds like ‘Show her you shrug it off with indifference, because you’ve got lots of other good options, but now you’ve pretty much lost interest in her until she shows effort to win you over again.
You’re not angry or insulted, just turned off.
She just revealed she’s not as hot as you thought she was.
You weren’t eager to get anything from her, but you don’t tolerate having your time wasted by flaking on a planned get together, so you’re not open to letting her do it again unless she acts eager to please you.’
Is that about right?
Sounds like it’s very unlikely to recover anything good after she flakes, like she just created a no-win situation.
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semi-slow,
I’ve written about handling flaking on other threads. You shrug it off BUT on the next date you make your displeasure clear with a single sharp neg. Either, at the beginning of the date, “I’m expecting twice as much of you tonight, to make up for last time”, or, at the end of the date, “Looks like giving you another chance was the right decision.”
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Gorbachev, thank you for your reply.
FYI, I’m not anti-game at all, in that a man can vary how he applies it; ie, it isn’t limited to spending nights in clubs & bars, seeking ONS and ‘notches’.
I know I need game, from fumbling chances with hot women I met randomly when I’m out & about doing my stuff — in a public library, healthfood store, wherever.
My fumbles occur at various points in the timeline — right when I meet her, or soon after, or after sex, etc.
I’ve been studying game by reading this blog & other sites.
Bought a book or two. Pondering past mistakes, etc.
With my lucky genetics and my commitment to top nutrition & fitness since age 15 (sorta like Jack LaLanne), I think I have a good shot at continuing to attract women in their 20s & 30s for a few more years.
Or I might, when I get a decent job again.
Women around my age (men too, for that matter) tend to look wayyy older than I do (IMO — or is it denial??). But if women my age attract me, great, ‘let’s go’.
Anyway, I call myself lazy because I am tired of tedious effort; that flailing sense of lacking traction or leverage.
I am tired of being rejected for choosing not to prioritize material affluence. That lifestyle, and the women who insist on it, are, for me, too much work/sacrifice for too little reward. The exceptional women can be damned hard to find.
When I have sure traction, getting reasonable results for my efforts, such as in my workouts, I have always worked very hard, with a positive attitude. After way too much discouraging experience (in various areas of life), I am just sick of working ‘on spec’ for anything. With the low odds of being able to get the rewards I want, the process of the endeavor needs to be intrinsically rewarding for the option to be enticing enough for me.
Gorbachev, my reason to write all this me me me crap here is because you and other readers here are impressively generous in trying to guide other guys to find their way.
So if anyone is going to offer his precious time & knowledge trying to help me, it will be most useful if they know what my deal is.
I suppose what I need to do most is simply clean up my messy apt., get my ass out in public more often to meet women by chance (choose strategic locations), and keep an optimistic outlook.
Anyway, I appreciate helpful comments, and hope to see more here. Thank you.
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Oops, I neglected to acknowledge the obvious generosity of the host of this blog, offering great info for free, either in posts or comments, trying to help schmos like me get their act together. I was remiss. CR I salute you.
Play on, brothas. (or in my case, ‘Let the games begin!’)
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Lazy guy,
“I am tired of being rejected for choosing not to prioritize material affluence. That lifestyle, and the women who insist on it, are, for me, too much work/sacrifice for too little reward. The exceptional women can be damned hard to find.”
Join the club, dogg. It’s amazing to meet dozens of women in a major American city, and find out that most of them are so boring, lazy and self-obsessed their life plan is to get a man to fund their lounging. I want to blame Princess’ daddy, and the fiat masters for giving so much easy credit most middle class teens don’t take a drop in lifestyle when they go to college and get that first low-paying job.
If they spent as much time on developing some personal worth as they do scheming to catch a man, they’d have good men falling over them left and right. Hard to find a good one, but sooo worth it – and with game you can search for her WHILE you are sleeping with other people.
One of my personal rules for relationships is that it should never expand my lifestyle beyond where I would have it being single.
One of Tom Leykis’ rules was “never spend more than $40 on a date” (the parallel rule was to order a salad to make the woman feel self-conscious about ordering a big entree). He made the point that “most guys don’t give a crap about where they eat anyway. It’s girls who are fixated on the status and price of the restaurant. Fuddruckers would be fine for a guy.” Don’t get talked into upping your status through your wallet!
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Thanks Badger. Good stuff.
I like that “with game you can search for her WHILE you are sleeping with other” women.
As Bill Murray said near the end of Ghostbusters, “I love this plan! I’m excited to be a part of it!”
I should’ve said “I *get* tired of being rejected…”,
not “I AM tired”, because I’m not saying “I give up”.
Noooo. I just go through phases and cycles of hope & effort, high & low, high & low … as do many guys I’m sure.
I understand the drill: Survey the landscape, suss out the prevailing conditions, and work with the way things are.
Even though sometimes I aspire to raise the act of complaining to an art form, I realize it’s about like if lions said “Gazelles shouldn’t run away so fast, and zebras shouldn’t camouflage so well, dammit.”
Oh and Gorbachev, I agree, it can be great when other people share their true stories. There’s nothing like it.
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Lazy guy
Read about “inner game”…..
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@ walawala “Lazy guy, Read about “inner game”…..”
Thanks for your suggestion. Where do you suggest I find the best material about it? Can’t afford David DeAngelo right now. Been reading this blog recently, even old archives, and DD’s newsletters (for a year now).
I think I’ve have a pretty good idea of “inner game”,
maintaining a certain state of mind, something like:
“I am the prize, not her. Let’s see if SHE can entice ME.
She is just one of many here (abundance, not scarcity).
I doubt the best she might give me is worth the time & trouble, the sacrifice of other options, the freedom of having no schedule & no one’s expectations, etc.
My doubt is more than my hope about her.
So I’ll just enjoy sizing her up now while we chat, with the low key humor of being an independent person who has no illusions.”
My own ‘extra’ (?) idea is this:
“Chances are this moment is the only time I will ever talk to her again. So I might as well relax and enjoy it for the intrinsic reward of this moment, without anxious hope about this leading to something more later.
And I’ll enjoy it most from a position of self-possession, regardless of how she responds, and by letting my possible attraction to her be clear to her, so at least I get the satisfaction of having asserted myself with her enough to express this feeling of sexual possibility.”
I find that just letting a woman know I’m attracted to her (but not nervous about it) is inherently rewarding by itself.
Sure, that’s not all I want, but it has at least some value.
Any comments on all that jazz?
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lazy guy,
yer gettin it. Just knowing you are high value, inside yourself, eventually comes across. And yes, you want to let your possible attraction to her be clear to her, but only in the sense that you convey possibility: that she is on your radar screen but will have work to do to get you to focus on her, not that you have already picked her out and decided you like her (conveying that is OK too if you do it right, but it is no longer “inner game”).
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@Lazy Guy
YouTube: Put “inner game pua” into Search, and vary it.
Myster, Tyler Durden, David D, Lovedrop all have clips of varying length.
Also, google it with pua. Look through all the various blogs on it.
When I discovered “game” 6 months ago, the first part I had to grasp was the “inner game” or self-confidence.
You can’t approach women without it.
You can’t determine a “shit-test” and how to react without it.
After a certain period of time it becomes more natural.
The “game” structures and tactics become second nature through practice.
An example, I was getting a flurry of shit-tests on Saturday night at a party from a hard-case I’ve been gaming.
I passed nearly all of them.
But at one point in the banter, I mention a photo of the two of us that I took.
At first she says with a complete straight face… “really, when was it?…”
I say it was XX…she keeps saying she’s not sure.
I then realize it’s a shit test, of course she remembers. So I reframe. I make some mention of having a drink.
Her: “Oh really, do you have that flavoured vodka with you?”
Me: Yes…
Her: Here?
Me: Yes…at my home…
Her: Ohhhhhhhh
Always be gaming…
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Lazy,
“I think I’ve have a pretty good idea of “inner game”,
maintaining a certain state of mind, something like:
“I am the prize, not her. Let’s see if SHE can entice ME.
She is just one of many here (abundance, not scarcity).”
I find my inner game is best when I approach a social situation from an attitude of boredom. Unfortunately, being bored with life in general is not a good way to go about things so it has to be compartmentalized.
Some/most people sound so stilted and fake in bars and corporate mixers because, well, they are. “Do you come here often?” “This is a good cheese spread.” “These pretzels are making me thirsty.” They’re literally begging another person for social approval in the form of responding to their cliche.
Tom Leykis had another funny tip: “go to a bar well-dressed and sit alone. Pretty soon a girl will come up and start talking to you; most women are attention whores and can’t bear the thought that you aren’t chatting them up.”
I’ve never done this, but the premise is the same: don’t use some cliche line that telegraphs you are trying to shoehorn somebody into a conversation. You’re bored because the people are boring – instant inner game, try-hard antidote and qualification opportunity (“I hope you’re not boring like the rest of these people.”)
Also, one of the blessing-and-curse things about practicing game is realizing how many women are a dime a dozen. It’s a bell curve – a large pool of interchangeable specimens and a few exceptional ones. (Girls can say the same thing about guys I’m sure.)
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“It’s a bell curve – a large pool of interchangeable specimens and a few exceptional ones. ”
Their variability is less, so girls can’t say the same but do so only because much of what they think of men are their projections of their own.
Since there are smaller differences between women, their mode of differentiating among themselves is by differentiating the men whose arms they are on.
A major might behave as a major on a battle field but his wife will behave like his rank all the time.
It would have been much easier though if our bell curve petered out faster too.The exceptionals create an unreasonable expectations of an ideal man and we feel pressured to conform to those standards.It’s so tiring and so oppressive.
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If it was me…
I likely would have tried to pin her down for a date right away. And if she flaked, I would have sent her a “shit-or-get-off-the-pot” message. And left it at that.
She might think this is a little too pushy, but there is nothing more demeaning than what that guy had to go through – too much e-mail conversation and no serious face time.
She can say yes or no, but when they start playing “hide and seek,” pushy behavior is what she deserves. Hell, I could DIE tomorrow – if its’ going to happen, better get on with it.
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I need to tell my stories too. Don’t have too much time right now. Also, need to live better stories to tell better stories. But definitely, definitely, game is real. It really is. I am the most skeptical and suspicious dude out there. I don’t bullshit and I definitely hate been marketed too.
I have been on and off game for several years, but I finally committed after ending a long-term relationship. I didn’t want to waste my hard-earned money on lies and charlatans, so initially I didn’t buy anything.
That changed within the past few months, and I feel my learning has skyrocketed.
Life is short. You gotta be bold.
On my blog, which needs a lot of work, I want to create a library resource tab where I review the stuff I buy and try out.
CH had a good post on it too.
Definitely, I will say, game works, and the inventor of game is Mystery. He is the godfather.
I know I said this before, but the 13 audio CD by Lovedrop is *killer*. I listen to it in my car and Lovedrop has become like my new best friend, the older brother I never had. I love that guy.
Game works. Game works. Game works.
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I don’t go for “e-mail/text game,” myself.
What if you ask her out for Friday, but she isn’t available? Even if she calls back with another option, the back-and-forth can get on your nerves. Calling or face-to-face, please!
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kanasco,
email and text are not the same.
text game is for logistics only, to be followed up quickly by a phone call if necessary.
email game is for maintaining and controlling a conversation and staying in her head, the way letters used to be used.
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Polymath, thanks for clearing it up, but my point is…if I’m just meeting the girl, I would rather have a real-time conversation. When I know her enough to trust her, then we can move on to e-mail or texts.
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I just got back to this blog after a long weekend in the sun. I followed the comments, however, via mobile. I just couldn’t jump in because WordPress doesn’t yet allow people to comment via mobile email account and most foreign mobile telecoms don’t make it cheap or easy to bring up the web on the phone itself.
Regarding the confusion of some younger PUAs on how to react to *perceived* flaky behavior, I want to reconfirm the power of not reacting too harshly if you are not 100% sure you are being flaked on. Giving the benefit of the doubt will pay off with good women who weren’t really flaking while “properly” dealing with women who were really flaking only means you get a little further with someone who is a flake.
First of all, don’t EVER use a swear word at any time with a woman who has never used one in your presence. Many women respect their grandma’s advice to immediately reject any man who does so (I confirm this once per week). If reading this blog brings real-world benefits to you in terms of tips you can use right away, take this advice: wait for a woman to use a swear word before you use that word yourself in front of her. Rejection can be swift and brutal if you don’t take this advice. You can also call flaky women “bitches” dozens of times with no repercussions (because you considered them lost causes) but, sooner or later, you will do this to someone with a middle eastern male relative white knighter and get yourself into more trouble than you want.
This weekend I had a single mom seem to flake on me the entire weekend. On Saturday her phone had lost its charge (really happens a lot in my region) and on Sunday her 2 year old had smashed the phone. My text response to the lack of contact last night was “What did I do to earn this disrespect and self-centeredness?”. This morning I got a frantic phone call explaining about the 2 year old smashing the phone. She repeated over and over “Please don’t be insulted by what happened. I really like you and want to see you”.
It was probably helpful that I wrote “What did I do to earn this disrespect”…but I believe her story. Even if she was out with her ex-husband or something, my showing displeasure helped her know I care and don’t expect to be treated badly. New date is tomorrow.
Similarly, a beautiful 19 year old seemed to shut off my phone call to her yesterday like she didn’t want to talk. I texted her yesterday “Did I insult you?” She called this afternoon to explain and set a date for…20 minutes from right now.
So I would advise a man not to react harshly to a perceived flake but go with the flow. Mild “What’s going on. I didn’t deserve this.” texts are OK. Sometimes even helpful. Just don’t use too many of those either or you will look paranoid and insecure.
Three years ago a woman’s grandmother died the week I was trying to get a date with her and, to make things worse for me, I was trying to do everything by email when I had her cell phone number. I blew it by getting angry that my emails were not being answered. Don’t do that! I then tried to reach her by phone and finally got her sister on her home line (phone book lookup) when I learned about the death and the funeral. I had one-itis at the time and knew nothing of game. I blew it in every textbook way.
Another time in New York I emailed a young woman 9 or 10 who was making it difficult get a date with even though I had charmed her for an hour at a loft party. By email, I then delivered the nuclear neg of saying that I normally don’t date smokers so why was she being so difficult to get a date with. I really used the wrong wording in saying that and I paid for it: I was able to call her on the phone and get the date but I ended up waiting at the restaurant in vain before getting back to my laptop to read an email saying “I hadn’t read my email before agreeing on the phone to meet you. Your email turned me off and now I don’t feel comfortable ever seeing you. Good luck.”
Email can be a liability. An unread email can hurt you badly even if you have had a phone conversation since you sent it. Don’t use email for anything but sending photos and links you once talked about.
In this latter case, if I had not sent the email but simply made that phone call, I would have easily gotten the date (like I actually did) and nobody would have been turned off and not shown up.
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That rss feature on your blog here is magnificent, you should tell more folks about it in your upcoming post. I haven’t noted it for the first couple of times, now I’m using it each morning to check on any updates. I’m on a very slow dial-up link in Jakarta and it’s quite frustrating to sit there and wait for such a long time ’til the page loads… but hey, I just found your rss page and added it to the Google Reader and there you are… I’m always up-to-date! Well pal, keep up the good work and make that rss button a little bigger so that other people can enjoy that as well 😛
00:19
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@johnny five
Hah. I’d say use emoticons with all girls not just young ones. I only know one woman who says she doesn’t like them (either sending or receiving but she’s an odd fish, actually a bit of a female player). I’m not talking about going overboard but just enough to put some personality into it. Don’t get too rambly but make sure it’s a conversation not a telegraph.
Depends how much the people you’re talking to use texts though. I think the US is about 5 or 10 years behind the UK on texting culture so don’t take my word literally on it. Everyone I know mainly uses texts rather than phone calls to communicate.
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@polymath
“ALL OTHER THINGS BEING EQUAL, many women (and most young women) are more likely to find niceness LESS attractive than its opposite. In other words, a genuinely nice man will IMPROVE his prospects by being less nice, EVEN THOUGH EVERYTHING ELSE ABOUT HIM IS THE SAME.”
I am afraid that I just cannot agree with you. It may well be that you are right and your experiences but perhaps some men just think this because they do not want to confront the alternative and it is easier to ‘blame’ women.
Yes in an ideal world NormNice plays as well as Billy but it’s actually quite rare.
But you are right that at the ATTRACTION phase, it is better to focus on other attributes not niceness. Women want/expect nice as a given. That’s why there is a bit of an excitement in the bad boy. But to most women just bad enough, e.g. Jonny Ive who has bad boy vibe going on (but you expect him to be nice, i’d be really disappointed if he wasn’t), not someone in Lock Stock and two Smoking Barrels 😉
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Please ignore posts, I posted in wrong thread.
@Jerry
Do you have any advice on how a woman dealing with an alpha male player type on his flakiness?
What would and wouldn’t work on you?
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Oh, it’s not always true that niceness is a turn off at attraction.
This is a very personal example but when I met the Player one of the things that attracted me to him was that he was really nice and down-to-earth. But perhaps this is more to do with his contrast thing than the niceness as a player persona obviously made me think he would be less nice a person than someone who wasn’t.
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Hi Lily Hi Lo (one of the best songs ever written),
I don’t understand your question – can you give an example?
I recently cooled off considerably on a 25 year old 10 who has a 2 year old and often had to postpone dates…but then she started calling me every day once I cooled off for 2 days. I can’t believe my luck now.
So the answer would be to call the guy and arrange dates if he starts to cool off, especially if he is young and insecure. He may have just gotten frustrated with your postponements. Don’t do what the lawyer from this post did. Make sure he has your phone number and that you provide concrete alternative times when you have to postpone.
A great way to hamper a player is to call his bluff and pretend to try to move in with him as soon as possible. If you break dates with him every night at 11PM, he might be on the phone every night with another woman at 11:20PM.
It is a big mistake to spend weeks on end seeing a guy only every second day and never all night. This would allow him to see others and, by the time you’ve fallen in love and/or allowed him to sleep with you, someone else is in the same position with him.
Try reading “The Unbearable Lightness of Being” by Milan Kundera for more hints on how to tame an alpha.
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Wrong:
HER: Hey, do you know where the bathroom is.
ME: (pointing to the farthest possible porto potty about two football fields away). It’s right over there.
Right:
HER: Hey, do you know where the bathroom is.
ME: (Motion her to lean in so you can speak in her ear) What color are your eyes? *Delivery important here*.
Her: Tells it.
Me: (Pointing) Bathroom’s over there.
Her: Now she won’t start with ‘are you kidding me’. She will just say something like ‘but my friends said there’s one right here’.
Me: Shake head with a knowing smile.
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