Programming Notes

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Programming Notes

June 7, 2010 by CH

1. Some commenters mentioned the idea, so I added a Donation button to the sidebar on the right. I think of it more as a motivation button. Maybe it’ll inspire me to keep the Chateau doors open to inquisitive guests.

2. I got rid of the comment ratings system. A lot of you complained that it was slowing down comment load times.

Posted in Uncategorized | 218 Comments

218 Responses

on June 7, 2010 at 2:30 am Ferdinand Bardamu

You can get away with soliciting donations? Last I read, WordPress forbade users from putting ads or other money-making baubles on their blogs.

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on June 7, 2010 at 2:38 am Thomas

Donations are more like a “charity” as opposed to money making babbles, such as “you won a free laptop (or whichever valuable good)” and other sneaky advertisements of the sort.

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on June 7, 2010 at 2:45 am 058er

Hahahahahaha,

wonderful, hope you get rich.

My first thought was. “He will stop writing because nobody cares enough to give money.”

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on June 7, 2010 at 3:05 am ASPIRANT

I’m sorry. I can’t find slack in my meager salary to donate money to the greatest evil of our time.

My words of well-wishing will have to suffice as payment.

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on June 7, 2010 at 3:10 am Arthur

I would love to know how much you make. Keep up the great work!

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on June 7, 2010 at 5:49 am xsplat

The thumbs rating system did slow the page load, but in the end saved me time as it made it easier to skip past boring posts. I’d give the ratings system a thumbs up.

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on June 7, 2010 at 6:06 am jurko

While you’re at it, maybe you could get rid of the lolzzlololzloz comments as well? They’re making the comments look heavy on the eye.

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on June 7, 2010 at 6:12 am Jay

Where’s this book of yours? I’ll pay good money to read it.

One of the reasons I like your writing is that every single word counts; there’s no superfluous fluff. The words are “concrete”, to the bone, hard and direct, authentic. It’s hard to put my finger on it. Some of the commenters relay great information but in comparison their writing style is tedious and lacking that brutal oomph.

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on June 7, 2010 at 7:41 am TrailTyme

I would gladly donate $75 if it meant the lolzololz shitbrain was blocked from diluting the comments.

Go ahead and hold me to it… anyone else in?

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on June 7, 2010 at 8:01 am NikkiBee

I think the comment ratings may have been a way to test public opinion on GBFM. It seemed almost 50/50 . He’s almost worth it just for adding “neocon butt-hexer” to my insult vocab.

Roissy please take your tip money and go on a trip.
Come back and game us with tales of soulstones…

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on June 7, 2010 at 8:24 am Lee

TrailTyme: I’m in for $50 if he kicks the lolzoloz shitbrain to the curb.

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on June 7, 2010 at 9:01 am The Rookie

slowing down comment load times… that’s a shame

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on June 7, 2010 at 9:18 am Silver Fox

NYT

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/07/nyregion/07dating.html?ref=nyregion

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on June 7, 2010 at 9:31 am gig

2. I got rid of the comment ratings system. A lot of you complained that it was slowing down comment load times.

cool

1. Some commenters mentioned the idea, so I added a Donation button to the sidebar on the right

Thus another social experiment begin

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on June 7, 2010 at 9:45 am Ammonium Nitrate

Without the comment rating system, I am unable to express the visceral disgust I feel for every GBFM lozlzozlzolz fiat butthex post. Can you look at another similar system that stops showing posts that reach a certain negative threshold (Digg/Youtube do this)? If you implement this, I will consider donating. I mean really consider it.

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on June 7, 2010 at 9:52 am The_King

I think you deserve to be compensated for sharing your knowledge, it is worth every penny for most betas.

I also think you should keep the comment rating system. It showed me how many haters there are and keeps me motivated.

I would like to recommend expanding your archive to more detailed sections, such as creating a section for maxims and rules.

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on June 7, 2010 at 9:55 am KingLeonidas

donation for a lolzlzlzlz permaban

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on June 7, 2010 at 9:59 am el duderino

ill donate 10 simply for understanding every Billy Bob Thornton role except slingblade. though I believe he won an Oscar for it, whereas he’d never win one with Bad Santa or Mr Woodcock

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on June 7, 2010 at 10:09 am Ovid

Roissy, are you thinking about ending your blogging career? It’s beginning to sound like it.

Bring back the rating system.

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on June 7, 2010 at 10:16 am vicen

rating system was very helpful to skip stupid comments

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on June 7, 2010 at 10:27 am greatbooksformen

lzozlzlzozlzlzoz

KingLeonidas wrote:

“fiat donation in debt based dollars for a lolzlzlzlz permaban”

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on June 7, 2010 at 10:28 am greatbooksformen

dude yah you deserve lottsa moneys!!!

you should do a book or two?!?!?

man many would buy and i would sing its praises lzoz

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on June 7, 2010 at 10:29 am Anonymous

No ratings! But how will I know that my lame comments suck ass?! The horror!

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on June 7, 2010 at 10:29 am Polymath

The thumbs up/down system was great, but I agree that it made loading too slow — there’s probably some technically better way to do it that won’t slow things down too much, if you find one please bring the rating system back.

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on June 7, 2010 at 10:29 am Moses Goldstein

I’d donate to keep GBFM around. He’s got his own little blog now and it’s fairly insightful once you get past (or embrace) the lolzlzozzolzolloling.

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on June 7, 2010 at 10:32 am Science

I’m trying to pick up a good book for my nephew for his graduation. I thought about The Game… but I’d much rather have “The Complete Online Writings from the Inner Vaults of the Infamous Roissy in DC (aka the Chateau)”.

Really, I think a hard copy of your collected works (or even just certain selected posts) would be more valuable that anything you talked about in your Game Resources (http://roissy.wordpress.com/2010/03/23/game-resources/).

You can’t put up advertisements, and the donate button won’t add up to herbdick… So when will your book be available?

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on June 7, 2010 at 10:45 am kaikou

Make that money, Daddy!

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on June 7, 2010 at 10:54 am dick fuel

obtain metal

buy money.

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on June 7, 2010 at 10:54 am maurice

Good riddance to the ratings. Pointless, tedious page loads, etc. Annoying. I hope you do well financially – lord knows this blog is better than hundreds of others out there that charge for dreck. I’ll have to think whether to contribute. Probably will, at some point.

So – I am hoping for an insightful and hilarious post on the Debrahlee Lorenzana situation. For those who haven’t seen – this is only one link of many:

http://www.villagevoice.com/2010-06-01/news/is-this-woman-too-hot-to-work-in-a-bank/

Many better pics available in other links and clips.

First things first, gang: 9? 8? 8.5? 7.5? Remember she’s 33 and a single mom.

Second, I wonder what actually happened. The article is basically her side of the story. I doubt any profit-seeking bank would have fired a Marilyn Monroe or Halle Berry lookalike if they brought in business. That’s not the way it works. Was she playing on her looks in an all-male, very masculine work environment, of the kind that NYC banks are famous for? (Why would that *not* have helped her bring in business?) Was she hired for her looks, and maybe not as up on the business smarts, products or connections as other bankers with more experience? Was she just gang-harrassed by all her male coworkers just because of her looks, as alleged? Hard to tell.

However, suppose we take her at her lawyer’s word (uh, just for the sake of argument. this same lawyer seems to be advising her to pose for all the cheesecake photos that are all over the web.) that she as in fact demure, non-flirtatious, serious, and professional in the office every day. In those tight turtlenecks and pencil skirts. And suppose she was every bit as productive as any male in the next cube (or any unattractive female). Perfect feminist thought experiment, and also interesting one for this board. What then? Food for thought and discussion.

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on June 7, 2010 at 11:25 am Lily

I’ll donate 50 dollars if you get rid of the lozlzozlzolz fiat butthex. I do see some valid points in his posts sometimes but it really hurts my eyes and is frankly annoying so I don’t bother reading them anymore.

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on June 7, 2010 at 11:34 am gig

“fiat donation in debt based dollars for a lolzlzlzlz permaban”

LOL !!

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on June 7, 2010 at 11:43 am maurice

If only we could all get paid in Maserati money instead of Fiat money. That would be bank. even Jonah Goldberg and Tucker Max might hesitate to butthex and desoul women in a Maserati. Although they might still videotape them without their consent.

Vince Vaughn to Ben Bernanke: “You’re so money! You’re SO MONEY, and you don’t even know it !! See these claws? They’re for desouling and butthexing women! You’re a fiat banker, a neocon who lies about his height! And the honorable women and true soldiers who fight in your foreign wars? they’re like little bunnies! they’re shaking! they’re afraid of you, because you’re SO (FIAT) MONEY!”

(credit to Cannon for posting the clip the other day.)

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on June 7, 2010 at 11:47 am Lily

@ maurice
Hard to say what the real story is. I do think in corporate environments that some men are threatened by good looking women who are their peers (or better than them). Especially men in executive, lower management ranks. Maybe the bosses didn’t have a problem with her sexiness but her male coworkers bullied her.

I don’t think her comment on what she wore and the bank tellers wore has any relevance though.
1. seems she had a position of responsibility so looking professional is more important than it is for rank and file
2. if you have a curvy figure obviously you have to be more careful of what you wear in a professional setting than if you don’t. So saying oh well so and so wears wrap dresses is irrelevant if they are a B cup and you’re an F cup.

In regards to 2, I had a look through the slideshow and I think most fine. Pic 5 + 22 in the wrap dress a bit too sexy for citibank if you have big boobs (but ok in a fashion or advertising setting). Pic 8 suit is absolutely fine in the summer but surprised at those python stilettoes in that job, court shoes would be more appropriate (absolutely fine in advertising where the court shoes would look frumpy) but anyway the shoes not enough to change her outfit from professional to way too sexy.
Pic 18 is perfect (but I can’t see her shoes).

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on June 7, 2010 at 11:50 am Canadian

I’m glad you added the donation button because you’re a fucking outstanding writer and analyst, if a bit of a cad, and there really should be some compensation for what you give us.

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on June 7, 2010 at 11:52 am Lily

>If only we could all get paid in Maserati money instead of Fiat money.<
I only know one woman whom I would personally describe as a 'goldigger'.. a classic comment she made when we were walking down the street, a car went past fast and the other woman with us
said oh what car was that, this one immediately said 'Maserati..poor man's Ferrari'
I lold a lot at that.

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on June 7, 2010 at 11:57 am greatbooksformen

Lily is flirting with me:

“I’ll donate 50 dollars if you get rid of the lozlzozlzolz fiat butthex. I do see some valid points in his posts sometimes but it really hurts my eyes and is frankly annoying so I don’t bother reading them anymore.”

lzozlzlzl

this is a perfect case study of how women want da alpha cock lzozlzlzlzlzlzl

in perfect feminits logic she is willing 2 pay $50 to get rid of something she says she doesn’t even readnor see anyomore lozlzlzlz!

see fellas and betas, what a women says she wants is for the benefit fo teh betas, so you can see that she is laying down the law and stating that none of you had ever better get out of line, and you must work in your cubicles for those fiat dollars hot off the pres still dripping with buttdouche, while she is yearning yearning yearning for my insightful alpha cock way down deep inside shooting rebel sperm into her gina lzozlzlzlzozlzlzlzlz. but the thing is i don’t put out for anyone and i always wrap it in foil before checking her oil loslslozlzlzlzlz as each one of my spermazoas is a license to seize my assetts for 18 years and more lzozlzlzlzlz and teh fed trains women to seek out spermazoas and haven them insemeiniate their eggs so that they can persecute men and transfer their assets lzozlzlzlzlzllzlzlz while alos detsroying teh fmaily lzozlzlz and raisingh more adderol ritalin kids to be abused by the stepdads and step hooksups and step boyfirends as research hath shown that far more child abuse occurs in broken homes which is why the neconc scientitss love breaking the home and causing war and dissension betwenn men and womenz as they profit off of debt debauchery divorce bankruptcy lzozlzlzlzlz

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on June 7, 2010 at 12:00 pm Vanko1

The comment rating system was very helpful. It allowed me to skip the lesser posts and really focus on the agreed quality posts.

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on June 7, 2010 at 12:29 pm Lily

Well I’m a woman so I was obviously lying 😉

To clarify, I do read your comments if I subscribed to the email alert on a thread (hence I said you make some valid points sometimes) because they are easier to read than when they are on the website (when I do skip them).

I didn’t say anything significantly different than jurko et al so don’t accuse me of laying down the law just because I’m a woman.

I do think you do make some valid points and it’s a shame that you have to lolzzlololzloz and butthex as if you didn’t, IMO many more people would taken them on board. Although of course up to you how you express yourself. And Roissy, it’s his board and up to him. But my offer of the 50 dollars still stands.

By the way in regards to your accusations on women/divorce conspiracy, I am divorced and I am worse off financially than if I’d stayed married or never got married at all. Yes one could say I ‘took my husband for half of what he had’ but I put half in financially in the marriage (as well as doing everything around the house which I just did, not something that I expected to be financially compensated for). I know there are a lot of vindictive women out there but most (not all) women I know personally who are divorced are worse off financially. In my case, I don’t mind the money, overall it was a good experience for me. Ok I missed out on social experiences of my peers and have less ‘friends’ because I wasn’t in bars and clubs during my twenties but homemaking, but I learnt a lot a person, I think I have better life skills and I’m not jaded like a lot of single women (and men) my age seem to be.

The only exceptions are women who didn’t have any family money or an income to speak of and in most cases the divorce is due to infidelity. Infidelity seems due to the man getting bored with his wife because he’s going up in the world (and women previously out of his league are attainable) and meeting interesting people and when he gets home all his wife has to talk about is problems with the house or kids. She initiates the divorce, mainly less to do with cheating but continual adultery and worse gaslighting (which really is one of the cruellest things you can do to someone). In these cases, it seems the woman ends up with the house and alimony as she doesn’t have any income to speak of, from her point of view she didn’t want to be divorced and her staying at home fulltime was what the husband said he wanted her to do when they got married, from the man’s point he lost lots of money.

No winners there. People should think carefully before they get married what they want, where they are going in life and whom they get married to, and if/when it finishes exit with grace and manners, not bitch and whine afterwards.

By the way, I have no wish for your sperm. I may be in my early thirties now but I don’t have a shortage of potential quality sperm donors or relationships. In fact I’d say that I had a better choice than when I was in my early twenties.

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on June 7, 2010 at 12:42 pm greatbooksformen

lozzllzlzlz

“By the way, I have no wish for your sperm. I may be in my early thirties now but I don’t have a shortage of potential quality sperm donors or relationships. In fact I’d say that I had a better choice than when I was in my early twenties.”

tic toc tic toc tic toc lzozlzlzlzl

long story short, if women hadn’t morphed from virtuous cretaures into followers of gina tingles at all costs lzozlzlzlzl marriage wouldn’t have been detsoryed lzozlzlzlzlzllzlz

women are the gatekeeprs of civilization, and if less were whoring aorund , theree would be less womenz for men to cheat with lzozlzlzllzlzlz

io can hear it now

“Wahahahha whahahahhaha whahahahah but i have a irght to follow my gina tingles!”

lozlzlzl yes all you ladies do, follow them all the way on home to your cats. lzozllzzlzl

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on June 7, 2010 at 12:57 pm Lily

Hah hah, but surely if I were following my gina tingles I’d be after you, you big super alpha dude hah.

I agree with a post on another thread about women over thirty but really I think a lot of women expect too much in a partner (as do men). Especially if they have not previously been in a relationship for long as they always bail out as soon as things get tricky. If you’re actually a sane person it’s not so hard to find someone to have a relationship with.

Personally, I don’t have a physical tick tock urge to have my own biological children (but it may well be because I’m supposedly ‘super fertile’, I went in for a full scan thingie so my body’s not worried yet), if I’m with the right partner and it happens great, if it doesn’t it’s fine. If my partner leaves me because it doesn’t (and after all some women may be inclined to leave a partner who has a low sperm count) then fine. There are plenty of guys my age and older who have had kids and don’t want any more but do want a relationship with someone who is good looking, is good with their kids and they can have an adult conversation with. Not all guys are like you and the so-called alpha ‘pump and dumpers’ messing up the heads of young women. Thank god. Or we wouldn’t have much of a society.

P.S. Thank you for not butthexxing and breaking up your post so it was easy to read. Very much appreciated!

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on June 7, 2010 at 1:02 pm Lily

Were women ever truly virtuous? The madonna/whore thing has just as much to answer for as feminism.

Why should women act as the gatekeepers for civilisation, are you boys or men?

It’s not fair to anyone to put them on a pedestal. Women aren’t evil but they are capable of evil as are men. It doesn’t mean it’s ok for men to treat them with disrespect and whores just as it’s not ok for women to treat men with disrespect and dogs.

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on June 7, 2010 at 1:15 pm Anonymouses Anonymous

I wonder whether I were the first to donate? This blog has helped me so I donated a dollar. What would be cool is that Roissy is really a soon-to-expire octogenarian billionaire who put up the donate button and has willed his riches to the first person to inded donate.

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on June 7, 2010 at 1:21 pm Anonymouses Anonymous

Except it would not be cool that Roissy were about to die. He is a national treasure. The Babe Ruth of Men.

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on June 7, 2010 at 1:21 pm greatbooksformen

lozlzlzlzlzl case and point your words ar ethe reason teh fed has funded feminism with billions upon billions lzozlzlzlozlzlzlzlll

“Lily

Were women ever truly virtuous? The madonna/whore thing has just as much to answer for as feminism.

Why should women act as the gatekeepers for civilisation, are you boys or men?

It’s not fair to anyone to put them on a pedestal. Women aren’t evil but they are capable of evil as are men. It doesn’t mean it’s ok for men to treat them with disrespect and whores just as it’s not ok for women to treat men with disrespect and dogs.”

lozlzlzlz were women ever truly vrituous. hell nos, but at one point they were expected to be virtuous and rewarded for being virtuous lzozlzlzllzlzlz

“Why should women act as the gatekeepers for civilisation, are you boys or men?”

lozlzlzlzlzlzlzlzz spoken just like the fed. the federal reserve is a private cartel in that the government should stay out of the way. they federal reserve is a government aganecy in that it should get access to tax dollars and be able to fund teh government for the great good of the poeple lzozlzlzlzlzl.

women rush forth to claim all teh positions at the univeristy whecne the fmaily implodes and the culture dies and 50,000,000 are aborted by women’s choice alone and women initaite the majroity of idvorces from 2/3 to 2/4 as teh fed incentivizes them to transfer money welathfrom men lzozlzlzl so

here it is women arfe the cultyural gatekeepers not in coming up with laws and reaon and rationale, but they are the cultural gatekeepers in keeping tehir legs closed and not benindg over for asscokers and rewaridng them lzozlzlzlzlzl

but today women present their ass and butt first and then try to rewrite the laws and cib[ilzation marriage delcine as debt abortion debauchery augment. lzozlzlzl and a woman’s greatest advanatge is her inability to see any of this nore think logically lzozlzlzllzlzlzlzlzl

“It’s not fair to anyone to put them on a pedestal. Women aren’t evil but they are capable of evil as are men. It doesn’t mean it’s ok for men to treat them with disrespect and whores just as it’s not ok for women to treat men with disrespect and dogs.”

lozlzlzlzlz yes why whould women have entyire departments devoted to them while men gets nones? the greeks saw athena as teh goddess of wisdom war beuaty lzozlzllzlzlzlzlz. femnisnits see womenz as helpless whores who mustrecieve government fiat funding zlzolzlz

see when men do auclture tehy are all inclusive.
when women do cultgure it is me me m em em me emejmemememe eme mememe me me eme me emememe

ememem mememememememe eme

me! me! me! my gina tingled and thus this is how it shall be! me!

man: i think therefore i am
woman: my gina just tingled and i need a new handbag and starbux lzozlzlzl

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on June 7, 2010 at 1:50 pm greatbooksformen

“2. I got rid of the comment ratings system. A lot of you complained that it was slowing down comment load times.”

hey roissy the comments ratings is still cool with my girls and it doesn’t slow down the load times lzozlzlzl

just last night i had her over and she commented, “wow that’s a BIG dick lzozl!” and i blew my load on her almost immeidately after that so comments don’t necessarily slow down the load times lzozlzlzlzl

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on June 7, 2010 at 2:03 pm Seth

GBFM – I like your comments and it is one of the reasons I read this highly entertaining blog. Did you ever read Camille Paglia?

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on June 7, 2010 at 2:08 pm greatbooksformen

yah i read paglia lzozllz

womenz are so funny these dayz confusing ina tingles with plato and aristotle and handbags with heraciltus (heraclittoris) lzozlzlzl

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on June 7, 2010 at 2:24 pm Badger Nation

Lily,

“Why should women act as the gatekeepers for civilisation, are you boys or men?”

It’s American women, not men (maybe not you, but maaany others) who want the benefits of civilization to allow them to be uncivilized without contempt; they want the privileges of the chivalric/pedestal system alloyed with the privileges of being equal. The systems just don’t go together.

If they want to be on a pedestal, they have to behave as someone who deserves to be on one. Most women I know either don’t understand this or ignore it, simply taking it as a female prerogrative to do whatever they want and then hide from accountability behind some antiquated notion that women are the lesser sex.

Girls want to slut it up in bars and clubs, and then if a man calls her a slut she gasps and says “how dare you talk that way to a lady!” You ain’t a lady, baby.

“It’s not fair to anyone to put them on a pedestal. Women aren’t evil but they are capable of evil as are men. It doesn’t mean it’s ok for men to treat them with disrespect and whores just as it’s not ok for women to treat men with disrespect and dogs.”

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on June 7, 2010 at 2:34 pm greatbooksformen

lozzllzlzlz

lilly just talks all over the place going wahhwh whwhhwhah whahwhhwhahaa ahwhahahah as she was raised in an eductaion systme that reqrds 1) butthexers, 2) secrteive tapers of buitthex without the girlths conthent, and 3) gina squirters lzozlzlzlzlzl

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on June 7, 2010 at 2:37 pm Badger Nation

Seth,

Love Camille Paglia. She’s just about the only honest woman anywhere near the women’s rights movement.

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on June 7, 2010 at 2:40 pm Jayz

“1. Some commenters mentioned the idea, so I added a Donation button to the sidebar on the right. I think of it more as a motivation button. Maybe it’ll inspire me to keep the Chateau doors open to inquisitive guests.”

Are you planning on ending this blog?

The above comment sure makes it sound like you are considering this.

If so, make the last post the “nuclear post” and post all the jpeg pics of the ladies you banged, including the lady bloggers, and just give the post the title of “See you in Hell haters.”

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on June 7, 2010 at 2:54 pm greatbooksformen

hey roissy mananana

you’ve goota have some aweome publishing deals offered!

u are like the most fmaous respected blogger in this space!!!

i know the ny puiblishing industyy is run by dried up ginas who love tucker max butthexers and secretive tapings of butthex iwthout the girlths contehnt, but stiikll, they’ve gott make a biuck!!

so they’ve gotta sell your sstuff!!

lzozlzlzlzlzlzl

so when’s th ebook coming out!!

go by the fornt tables of barnes and nioble and borders and its book after book of booksuck booksuck bookscuck

none of them have blogs and most siwill lose money lzozlzlzl

lzolzlzlzl

but then again that is what neocons love best–butthex and things taht lose money and augment debt and debuachery lzozlzlzl

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on June 7, 2010 at 3:06 pm greatbooksformen

more butthex and debt more butthex and debt
the world is now ruled by what makes vaginas wet
vampires empires and secretive tapings of asscocking
out of the univeristy men the fedfems ar locking
premptive war agianst teh unborn
women are teh soldiers on the front lines
from their wombs the living incocent is torn
and then the women whines whines whines
taking numerosu cocks in her mouthginaass
going “wahaha where are all teh good men?”
as she gets banged by her “best freinds.”
and then demands to hold a pen
to rewitre all teh laws to grow the fed
she kileld her unborn but don’t want the father dead
keep him living on paying alimony so she is fed
and she can bang bikers and drummer on his dime in his bed. lzozlzlzlzlzl

hey everyone donate to roissys right now!!!

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on June 7, 2010 at 3:12 pm greenlander

I’ll also donate $50 if you ban GBFM. He’s friggin’ annoying.

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on June 7, 2010 at 3:14 pm greatbooksformen

awwwww greenlander what about my words do you like best? lzozllzlzlz

i inspoire stong emotiuon lozlzlzlzlzzl

is that why you love me?

do i make your buttgina tingle lingle?

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on June 7, 2010 at 3:15 pm Lily

@BadgerNation
You make some valid points.
To me, American women do seem to have a sense of entitlement, but then do American men.

My comment came from in the past I’ve been put on a pedestal (by a former player who said he reformed because of me but I’m not that stupid, it was just a time in his life and he just happened to meet me next) and the relationship was a disaster. I didn’t want to be seen as some sort of madonna (I’m not as no woman is) and I wasn’t mature enough to deal with him unloading his entire past on me as some sort of redemption.

Also, men call women sluts/whores for god knows what reason. When I was married I used to go to bars and clubs with friends occasionally (say 4 times a year), a mixed group, and every single time some dude we didn’t know would ask me what I was doing out with single people and basically try and say I was a whore. Maybe because he ‘wasted his time’ talking to me? Who knows. It’s not like I was taking drinks from him or leading him on or wearing slutty clothes.

@ greatbooksformen I’m English lozzllzlzlz.
No butthexing at school, more Latin and flat shoes.

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on June 7, 2010 at 3:20 pm greatbooksformen

lzozlzlzlzlzozlzl

read homer’s odysysey it is frowned upon for a owmen to be with men or consorting with men with whom ehse is not married to officially in public lozlzlzlzl

funck dat shit now da neocons said and now you can get asscoked by five different men in a bar, and if a bystandner calls you a whore you can say, “It’s not like I was taking drinks from you or leading you on or wearing slutty clothes. Clothes would get in teh way of the cocks and block them from reaching and penetrating my anus for teh secretive tapings of butthex for the neocons pleasure and profit. lozlzlzlz.”

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on June 7, 2010 at 3:20 pm Lily

>>greenlander
I’ll also donate $50 if you ban GBFM. He’s friggin’ annoying.<<
Woah, Roissy could be quids in.

My 50 dollars isn't conditional on banning. I'm still in if the lolzzz and butthexing out and proper spelling and paragraphs in. But hey it's Roissy's blog so whatever.

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on June 7, 2010 at 3:26 pm greatbooksformen

ok lily what is the proper way to spell lzozlzllzlzl?

i love how attentive women are too spelling as the cocks are sliding in and out in and out deosuling them lzozllzlz.

and train women to convert fiat debt into physical wealth,
to transfer it up from honest men, you bet,
blaming the betas for the chicx sore anaus health.
as tehir infinite debt trickes down
tehir debt trickles down enslaving us all
while upon my grammar, charlotte allen does frown
tsk tsk tsk “that’s not how you spell butthex at all!”
as tyhey finance and reward tucker max 2 tape anal in secret
without the girl’s consent
as for vampires and werewolves they tell girl s2 get wet
telling them vanmpires butthexers are heaven sent
as they bail out al the butthexing bankers pumping adn dumping the common man
as they wire fiat cash to the butthexing tucker maxes pumping and dumping chix
as they wire fiat cash to train women to transfer welth to their hands
as they bankrupt the world with porn and war and anus seeking dicks

lzozo

full version here: http://roissy.wordpress.com/2010/05/20/reader-mailbag-flakes-snakes-and-alpha-male-tales/

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on June 7, 2010 at 3:26 pm Lily

>>read homer’s odysysey<<
I read it when I was 15 for Latin.
That was quite a long time ago but not as long as Homer's times.

funck dat shit now da neocons said and now you can get asscoked by five different men in a bar, and if a bystandner calls you a whore you can say, “It’s not like I was taking drinks from you or leading you on or wearing slutty clothes. Clothes would get in teh way of the cocks and block them from reaching and penetrating my anus for teh secretive tapings of butthex for the neocons pleasure and profit. lozlzlzlz.”
!! I don't know what asscoke means. Somehow I doubt I was doing that. Drop the madonna/whore thing (or probably you think all women are whores).

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on June 7, 2010 at 3:27 pm greatbooksformen

lozlzlzlzlzl!!

“I read it when I was 15 for Latin.”

hoemr’s odyssey was wirtten in Greek! lzlolzlzlzlz

no wonder you thought it was about your gina, like twilight lzoLzlz

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on June 7, 2010 at 3:36 pm greatbooksformen

hey lily

you said all women are whores and we must stop placing them on pedesatals so i did what you asked and off the pedestal it is weasire to tape buitthex secrertely without the girlths conthent so getting rid of the pedseastal is cool with the neocn fed money fiat masters too lzozlzllzlzl

why do so many want to ban me (lzozlz i know it’s like 2 but i like being dramatic sometimes lzozlzlzl)

withgout me you would be left with naught but sefcrteive tapings of butthex tyranny and furry hats furry furry hats lzozlzl

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on June 7, 2010 at 3:38 pm Philosopher

Lily,
I encourage you to learn the statistics about divorce, child support, alimony, etc. instead of relying on your personal experience. Everyone’s divorce is different.
Usually, both men and women are worse financially after divorce. Why? It takes more money to support two households (where previously there was one) and pay legal fees.

I recommend reading Doug1’s posts on marriage, divorce, alimony, child support, custody, etc.

Doug1 – Take it away!

For a study of 46000 divorces, Google These Boots are Made for Walking: Why Most Divorce Filers are Women by Margaret Brinig and Douglas Allen.
http://www.dadi.org/nyt_brak.htm

High points “2/3 of divorces are initiated by women.
Women are much more willing to split up because — unlike men — they typically do not fear losing custody of the children. Instead, a divorce often enables them to gain control over the children.”

In states where laws have been changed to make joint custody the norm, divorce rates have fallen. Wonder why?

Through divorce, women typically receive more than half the assets, alimony and tax-free child support payments far larger than what it takes to raise a child. (often called stealth alimony)
In some states, alimony is for life.

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on June 7, 2010 at 3:54 pm Lily

@greatbooksformen
“I read it when I was 15 for Latin.”
hoemr’s odyssey was wirtten in Greek! lzlolzlzlzlz
Nevertheless, it was part of my Latin curriculum at school. It was a popular text in Roman times.

@Philosopher
I take your point and I am not saying that my personal social circle is representative of society. But I do see that you also agree that women as well as men are often worse off from divorce.

I will check out doug1’s posts.

>>In states where laws have been changed to make joint custody the norm, divorce rates have fallen. <Through divorce, women typically receive more than half the assets, alimony and tax-free child support payments far larger than what it takes to raise a child. (often called stealth alimony)
In some states, alimony is for life.<<
I'm not saying this is ok at all, but if a man marries someone and commits to being with her for life and tells her he wants her to stay at home and not earn an income and look after his children and he will look after them financially, he has less to complain about on paying alimony when they divorce.

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on June 7, 2010 at 3:57 pm Lily

>>In states where laws have been changed to make joint custody the norm, divorce rates have fallen. Wonder why?<<
In Europe, countries with some of the highest divorce rates are the UK (where joint custody is very much the exception) and Finland (where joint custody is quite common). No idea why.

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on June 7, 2010 at 3:58 pm greatbooksformen

“I’m not saying this is ok at all, but if a man marries someone and commits to being with her for life and tells her he wants her to stay at home and not earn an income and look after his children and he will look after them financially, he has less to complain about on paying alimony when they divorce.”

he its her children too lolollzlol

especially hers

she can abort them he can’t

lolllzloll

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on June 7, 2010 at 4:01 pm someone

I’m also up for $50 to permaban any version of lolzclown.

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on June 7, 2010 at 4:01 pm PA

vampires empires

Good sonnet, lolllzzzer dude!

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on June 7, 2010 at 4:06 pm Lily

*Sigh*
<<he its her children too lolollzlol<>she can abort them he can’t<<
Well obviously she can't if she's got married and they have an understanding on having children and how they raise them. I thought men are supposed to be logical and women are emotional..how has what you said made any logic at all?

Obviously, if she gets pregnant as they are divorcing, that's a different story.

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on June 7, 2010 at 4:10 pm Lily

>>”if a man marries someone and commits to being with her for life and tells her he wants her to stay at home and not earn an income and look after his children and he will look after them financially, he has less to complain about on paying alimony when they divorce.”
he its her children too lololl<<
If a man and woman have got married and have agreed that she will stay at home and not work , either she had no income to speak of before or gives up her income, how can you expect her to be able to jointly contribute to the kids raising 10 years later when they divorce. I wouldn't get into that situation personally but many women do. And the men can't be all oh the bitch has taken me to the cleaners when they wanted her to be at home and not earn an income.

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on June 7, 2010 at 4:11 pm greatbooksformen

no lily the law is this:

if a woman wants to abort kids she can
a man has no say whatsoever
whetehr they are married or not she can kill the fetus

that is the law lzozlzllz

it is a omwen’s choice lozlzlzlzl

lilly you should styiuck to womenly things like twilight, cooking, and secretive tapings of butthex justifying/publishing/promoting and leave logic 2 da men.

that way you’d stay married lzozlzlz

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on June 7, 2010 at 4:13 pm gig

I’m not saying this is ok at all, but if a man marries someone and commits to being with her for life and tells her he wants her to stay at home and not earn an income and look after his children and he will look after them financially, he has less to complain about on paying alimony when they divorce.

The case where the wife is a stay-at-home mom and she inititates the divorce without showing any wrongdoing of his is the only case where alimony should be allowed.

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on June 7, 2010 at 4:23 pm paultheking

10 bucks for a perma ban on lolz. Just because i’d laugh my ass off and it would be worth it for about 5-10 minutes

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on June 7, 2010 at 4:26 pm Lily

@greatbooksformen

A woman who has just got married to some man who says he loves her forever and probably doesn’t have her own income of significance is very unlikely to have an abortion as she’ll be out on her ear. The law may say that she can without his consent, but it wouldn’t be a rational decision to make.

I’ve never read twilight, I cook to a professional level and I’m still unclear on this butthexing, but I left my marriage because it didn’t work for me and I would rather take the risk of not having kids than bringing them into a relationship where their mother was unhappy. There are 5 guys who would marry me tomorrow (3 of them are alphas, proper ones not gammas doing PUA). I haven’t even started dating.

As for leaving logic to men, would be great but you’re not being illogical. And why is your spelling so atrocious? If it’s typing, maybe you could type into Word first and use autocorrect or spellcheck?

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on June 7, 2010 at 4:27 pm Sidewinder

Re: divorce,

Lily’s main point is true. Women are generally not better off after a divorce. The most misleading idea I see regularly flung about in these comments is the suggestion that women want divorce. This is completely false. I realize we’re dealing in generalizations here, but generally speaking, women do NOT want to be divorced. When you add children into the mix, they most definitely do NOT want to be divorced. That they are the filing party in divorce proceedings 2/3 of the time does not suggest otherwise, as there are a number of reasons why that would be the case irrespective of the woman’s desire to get divorced.

We could spend weeks discussing every exception to the rule, but generally speaking, a married woman in her 30s with children does not want to be divorced.

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on June 7, 2010 at 4:45 pm Sidewinder

Even if the identity of the filing party were an accurate indicator of desire for divorce, the 2/3 figure would still indicate that almost 75% of women do NOT want to divorce.

Assuming a divorce rate of approximately 40%, the 2/3 figure would mean that 26.6% of married women want to divorce, and 13.3% of married men want to divorce.

Even if the identity of the filing party were a valid criterion for determining desire for divorce, it would suggest that the vast majority of both married men AND WOMEN, do not want to divorce.

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on June 7, 2010 at 4:53 pm TrailTyme

Yet another GBFM lolozlozl post whoring.

Whats this preliminarily total up to… $350+ just to clean up this trash? Let people that like his silly 12 year old take on the English language get their dose on HIS site. He brings down the maturity of your site 10 fold.

1 official: “I donated to block GBFM” post and everyone wins.

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on June 7, 2010 at 4:53 pm Lily

>>As for leaving logic to men, would be great but you’re not being illogical.<<
Hah hah, I meant you're not being logical.

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on June 7, 2010 at 5:22 pm Carl Sagan

Like all good things this blog has to come to an end.

I really don’t see what else needs to be said that hasn’t already been said.

At this point you should just package all of your best material from the blog and put it into a book.
.

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on June 7, 2010 at 5:54 pm Badger Nation

Sidewinder,

“Even if the identity of the filing party were a valid criterion for determining desire for divorce, it would suggest that the vast majority of both married men AND WOMEN, do not want to divorce.”

Then why are so many people getting divorced? What cosmic force draws them to dissolve the institution of marriage if so many don’t want to divorce?

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on June 7, 2010 at 6:00 pm Badger Nation

“I’m not saying this is ok at all, but if a man marries someone and commits to being with her for life and tells her he wants her to stay at home and not earn an income and look after his children and he will look after them financially, he has less to complain about on paying alimony when they divorce.”

You’ve left out the problem of who wants to divorce. If Princess decides she’s “not happy” after being a kept woman for ten years, I don’t have any sympathy and I certainly don’t think hubby should pay her a salary for breaking up “his” family. (And let’s dispense with the verbalism of “raising his children.” I’ve NEVER met a couple with children where the husband wanted them [or more of them] than the wife.)

“he will look after them financially”

That’s part of the deal of the _marriage_…when the marriage is over, the benefits of marriage should vanish.

gig,

“The case where the wife is a stay-at-home mom and she inititates the divorce without showing any wrongdoing of his is the only case where alimony should be allowed.”

I think the opposite – when a kept woman walks out of a marriage, I don’t think she’s entitled to much. A husband who fulfills his marital duties should not suffer from a fickle mind. Other cases, involving mutual consent or hubby’s abuse/adultery, I am more sympathetic to a “buyout clause.”

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on June 7, 2010 at 6:01 pm J

Here’s my two cents on divorce, why women inititate it more often then men these days and at what age.

I’m somewhat older than most of you, and I notice that among my peers–couples with kids getting to go off to college–that another marriage bits the dust at least once a month. And it generally is the woman who inititates Why?

I think it has to do with what people expect from marriage these days. As women have become better able to support themselves, their emphasis has shifted from provider to friend and soulmate. (For men, the emphasis has shifted as well; they seem to want a sex kitten/fun gal rather than a wife/mom/housekeeper.) Once the kids are gone, many people want to dump their partner and try to find someone new, different, and exciting. Others just want to be on their own to do their own thing, and now, because the wives have their own professions, people can afford it. (Pls note that I do not live in an alimony state.) Money and kids no longer keep people in relationships that no longer satisfy.

There seem to be so many comments on this blog that threaten women over 30 with never finding another mate because they are losing their looks. In my personal experience, that just doesn’t happen. Most of the 50-something women I know who are leaving their husbands are finding that there are plenty of men interested in being with them. Others aren’t looking because they want their freedom anyway.

[editor: the quality of man an older woman who has brushed with the wall will get is considerably lower than what she would have gotten in her sexual prime. and older divorced women who claim to want the freedom of their newfound single lives are the best example of sour grapes possible.
or: if it ain’t happening, you’ll rationalize away your feelings of rejection.]

Even though I’m happily married, divorced guys run what I’m learning from this blog to recognize as game on me with amazing frequency. They are lonely I guess and are checking to see if I’m going to join the crowd and dump my husband too. Obviously, I’m not interested in doing that, but I have no doubt that I’d have no trouble finding a new partner. And that, for many people, is also an incentive to divorce.

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on June 7, 2010 at 6:15 pm Jayz

“Like all good things this blog has to come to an end.

I really don’t see what else needs to be said that hasn’t already been said.

At this point you should just package all of your best material from the blog and put it into a book.”

Agreed.

However, not before he posts the “nuclear post.”

That would be a perfect “fuck you” to all the haters he has endured over the last 3 or so years.

At the very least, he should have a “goodbye, folks” post. I hate when bloggers just let their blogs die without a real end post.

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on June 7, 2010 at 6:22 pm Sidewinder

@ badger nation,

While 40% is a high failure rate for marriages, it isn’t over 50%. While not making light of the divorce problem, it needs to be remembered that most married people do not get divorced. Applying the 2/3 figure to that 40% of marriages ending in divorce, (again, I don’t really think the 2/3 figure is a valid indication of anything given all the confounding variables, but anyhow) you see that only about 25% of married women want to divorce, and 13% of men. 25% is nothing to sneeze at, but its not the “sky-is-falling-due-to-feminism rhetoric” that guys post on here.

And of those 25% of married women and 13% of married men, a sizeable portion of them probably file for divorce for valid reasons, not just so they “find themselves” or date around.

Its important to be vigilant, but not paranoid. Most people want their marriages to work out and do not want to get divorced. If guys spent more time focusing on improving themselves and their inner game than worrying about the external influences of feminist ideologies, there would probably be less divorces.

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on June 7, 2010 at 6:34 pm Philosopher

Sidewinder,

Provide sources for your assertion “women don’t want to get divorced”. Also, do you mean GET divorced or BE divorced?
The fact that 2/3 of all divorce cases are filed by women certainly indicates women want to GET divorced more than men. See article referenced below.
On the other hand, after a divorce is final, I understand a lot of women do not want to REMAIN divorced. That is, either they regret getting divorced, or they want to re-marry. Pretty common – but, separate from this discussion, women want to be married at much higher rates than men anyway.
This is from personal experience. If you know of studies demonstrating this, show me.

I agree with you and Lily that women are worse off financially post-divorce. From the limited studies I’ve read, so are most men. It’s simple-to-understand economics. After separation/divorce, there are two homes to support instead of one. Also, there are legal fees.

Read about this study of 46000 divorces.
http://www.dadi.org/nyt_brak.htm
“Across America, at least two-thirds of divorce suits are filed by women. Researchers who have interviewed divorcing couples have repeatedly found that, in cases where the divorce is not mutally desired, women are more than twice as likely to be the ones who want out. After the split, women are typically happier than their exes. “

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on June 7, 2010 at 6:37 pm greatbooksformen

hey if we can raise $1,000, half of whcih i will give to roissy, i will never post here again. lozlzlzl

but here is how it works.

peoples can say how much they will pay to get be banned, but then all my fanz can say how much they will pay to kppe me which will be subrtacted from thsoe wantsing to ban me lzozlzl

oh wait this would be like teh tumbs up thumbs down which i totally kileld on lzozlzlzlzl

guess all you whiners losers banners betas chix with dix h8ers of men the constitution and free speech will have to deal!

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on June 7, 2010 at 6:57 pm Lily

@ Philosopher.

I haven’t read up enough on stats but just because a woman files for divorce doesn’t mean she wants to be divorced.
IMHO a typical example is man who has been married for 10/15 years with a SAHW and decides isn’t happy with his life/marriage/whatever but he doesn’t get out, he has an affair. He doesn’t file for divorce, he’s more than happy to have his wife at home looking after home and kids and the mistress on the side. Why divorce and take risk of losing money, not seeing your kids when you want on your terms.

The wife in this case is probably not happy as something is missing in the relationship, finds about the mistress, goes mad, she still wants the ‘fairytale’ (yeah a lot of women are naive like that) and tries to manipulate him into doing things on her terms. He panics, promises not to see the mistress, but blah blah we all know the story, we all know people like this. It goes on for ages with both parties getting unhappier and unhappier. The wife then initiates a divorce. He’s never going to. Why would he? It takes a strog man to do it, I don’t know many. Doesn’t mean the wife would have wanted a divorce in the first place.

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on June 7, 2010 at 7:30 pm Lily

>[editor: the quality of man an older woman who has brushed with the wall will get is considerably lower than what she would have gotten in her sexual prime<

Sorry Roissy, I just can't agree with this. I am not even dating again yet but I have higher-quality guys asking to commit to me than when I was 18 (15 years ago). My initial thoughts are:

– many guys weren't that interested in LTRs at 18 so if that was what you were after (which I did, protected me from being hit on by random guys) then you had a limited pool
– I'm not as superficial as I was then so I am more open to a wider pool of guys than just the best looking well dressed popular ones (and as you get older and guys learn how to carry themselves and dress, that pool really widens).
– as well as this pool of guys your own age, you have guys who are say 7+ years older and neither party in a 25/18 yr old really wants an LTR, actually I didn't know any 25 + yr olds except for crazy stalker guys but that's a different story.
– as you get older, you carry yourself better. I actually look better than I did then (though older obviously but I aways suffered when I was 18 for looking young for my age) because I know how to dress, do my hair and have money for manicures etc. Obviously that must drop off at a certain age.
– I have some non English heritage and culturally things have changed a lot in that time. When I was 18 most guys were chasing the blonde hair, blue eyes look and now my look is more what's considered beautiful. Also guys in their thirties or forties are less bothered about what their grandma thinks about who they pair up with. I think this probably applies in a wider way, e.g.people making conventional choices whether that's girl next door, class, whatever.

Yeah, there are some guys out there who only want to date younger women, but it's not the majority by any means. And especially for guys 50+ who maybe married the girl next door or the conventional one and they grew apart, he may date around for a bit he's still used to a woman looking after him and he's more likely to marry a best friend + passion type than chase much younger young pussy.

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on June 7, 2010 at 8:02 pm Jayz

“Sorry Roissy, I just can’t agree with this. I am not even dating again yet but I have higher-quality guys asking to commit to me than when I was 18 (15 years ago).”

Higher quality?

What the does this mean.

Better looking? Taller? Bigger dicks? etc…

If this only means that they guys that hit on you now have better jobs, well: DUH!

At 18, I don’t think too many guys are managers at F500 companies.

“- many guys weren’t that interested in LTRs at 18 so if that was what you were after (which I did, protected me from being hit on by random guys) then you had a limited pool”

Yeah, because we all know how hard it is for an 18-year-old girl who is pretty to find a boyfriend.

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!

“- I’m not as superficial as I was then so I am more open to a wider pool of guys than just the best looking well dressed popular ones (and as you get older and guys learn how to carry themselves and dress, that pool really widens).”

Well, surprise, surprise: As you have gotten older, you have lowered your standards.

“- as you get older, you carry yourself better. I actually look better than I did then (though older obviously but I aways suffered when I was 18 for looking young for my age) because I know how to dress, do my hair and have money for manicures etc. Obviously that must drop off at a certain age.”

Bullshit.

Unless you were fat, you can not look better now than you did when you were 18.

Most women really start to hit the wall when they hit 30. Sorry to burst your bubble. Younger women look better than older women.

That is why when they pick swimsuit models they go after girls in their late teens and girls in their early 20’s, not 30-something women.

“Yeah, there are some guys out there who only want to date younger women, but it’s not the majority by any means. And especially for guys 50+ who maybe married the girl next door or the conventional one and they grew apart, he may date around for a bit he’s still used to a woman looking after him and he’s more likely to marry a best friend + passion type than chase much younger young pussy.”

Most guys want to date younger women. The only reason they don’t is because, after a certain age, it gets harder and harder to pick up young hotties, so they settle for what they can get.

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on June 7, 2010 at 8:17 pm J

[editor: the quality of man an older woman who has brushed with the wall will get is considerably lower than what she would have gotten in her sexual prime. and older divorced women who claim to want the freedom of their newfound single lives are the best example of sour grapes possible.or: if it ain’t happening, you’ll rationalize away your feelings of rejection]

I know that’s the conventional wisdom here, but my observation is that most people end up with a second spouse who is pretty similar to the first–looks, social class, level of education and profession, even personality. One reason that I’ve stayed with my husband no matter how much he pisses me off is that I assume a second husband would turn out to be pretty much the same guy. 😉

[editor: if the woman is over 35 when she divorces, it is likely her second husband will be lower quality on some important metrics, even if she cannot bring herself to objectively analyze her second husband’s attractiveness traits (it’s a very human bias to want to make the best of an unchangeable situation). the second husband, at the very least, is going to be older than the first, and thus less physically attractive. but that of course is not the whole story, as it is well known that women don’t place as much emphasis on looks as do men. what you’d need to do is compare the first hubbie’s social and financial status when he reaches the age of the second husband. often you will see that the second husband was a significant drop in status for the older woman from what she landed when she was younger. and there are other variables at play — is the second husband as funny/charming/sexy/mysterious/unpredictable/adventurous/stylish/tall as the first husband? give me the facts and i will discover 9 times out of 10 that the older divorcee has downgraded with her second husband.]

A case in point: A few weeks ago, I mentioned that
a friend of the family, the grandmother of my son’s friend, had lost her husband of almost fifty years. This weekend, I watched a widower her age more or less ask her out to see a comic perform–“To cheer her up,” he said. I was both heartened and shocked; heartened that she could still attract someone (who was remarkably similar to her late husband in quality BTW) and shocked that he didn’t let the corpse cool down a bit before he made a move. I assume there will be a number of widowers lining up eventually to “comfort the widow,” and he wanted to get in on the ground floor. Old men hate to be alone.

As to freedom and sour grapes, I’m not talking about the freedom to pick up news guys at the club. Many older women are just tired of taking care of other people, including the husband if it hasn’t been the best relationship. A co-worker of mine in her early sixties left her husband when the youngest kid graduated from high school because she was sick of a relationship that hadn’t been good for years. She didn’t date; she was perfectly happy with the idea of staying single, traveling, just enjoying some things she had wanted to do but couldn’t get the husband to participate in. About four years later, while doing one of those things, she met the guy she now lives with. He is similar in “quality” to the ex, but he has a sunnier personality.

It ain’t over till it’s over.

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on June 7, 2010 at 8:34 pm el duderino

alright rois, in a few days you’ll get that beer money i owe ya. thanks for the lessons my father never gave me.

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on June 7, 2010 at 8:34 pm chic noir

Some commenters mentioned the idea, so I added a Donation button to the sidebar on the right.

Hey now, look is who is ready to do something strange for some change 😆

[editor: i’m already feeling more motivated. i think i might get around now to recording my approaches and putting the audio on the blog.]

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on June 7, 2010 at 8:39 pm J

Sidewindwer @6:22

Great post!! The stats that say 50% of marriages will end in divorce are notoriously flawed. No one has ever bothered to do a real longitudinal study because of the expense and time involved. What generally happens is that a social scientist compares the number of marriages and divorces in a particular locale during a particular time period. For example, if 50,000 couples married in Chicago in 2002 and 25,000 couple divorced, then the divorce rate was 50%. Unfortunately, you never find out how many married or divorced couples there actually were.

I think the picture you present is more realistic. You are also right on point in saying that no one gets married with the idea of getting divorced. Some are more casual than others, but no one sets divorce as a goal. Additionally, I agree that feminism is not a direct cause of divorce. Women earning real money, a result of feminsm, makes divorce more feasible for women who are already unhappy.

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on June 7, 2010 at 8:40 pm chic noir

DONT

I repeat DON’T CLICK the link in
ASPIRANT’S handle if you’re prone to having seizures.

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on June 7, 2010 at 8:44 pm ahappinessexperiment

[often you will see that the second husband was a significant drop in status for the older woman from what she landed when she was younger. ]

i thought the whole idea behind hypergamy is that women try to marry up.

[editor: “try” is the operative word. post-wall, the best intentions stand no chance against the reality of the dating market.]

a typical male strategy for divorce is to behave so badly that he chases the wife off. in those cases, the wife will likely end up with a lower status 2nd husband–if she ends up with any–because she was probably chased off because her market value dropped substantially. but in cases where a woman goes straight from one husband to another, she is likely upgrading. granted, the upgrade may be only relative due to the market value of the husband having dropped over the years (usually because his career didn’t work out).

[an older woman on her second husband could still “marry up” while settling for a lower status man than what she had with her first husband. to grasp this possibility, think of the man’s status relative to the woman’s age. hint: a woman’s sexual status drop a lot harder a lot faster with age than does a man’s status.]]

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on June 7, 2010 at 8:46 pm chic noir

kaikou whispered sweetly Make that money, Daddy!

😯

Dammmmmnnnnnnnn, you must really be something. You even have your bottom itch singing your praises.

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on June 7, 2010 at 8:47 pm sdaedalus

What you’d need to do is compare the first hubbie’s social and financial status when he reaches the age of the second husband. often you will see that the second husband was a significant drop in status for the older woman from what she landed when she was younger. and there are other variables at play — is the second husband as funny/charming/sexy/mysterious/unpredictable/adventurous/stylish/tall as the first husband? give me the facts and i will discover 9 times out of 10 that the older divorcee has downgraded with her second husband.

It depends on what you mean by downgraded. Although I agree there is not much point in a woman over 30 walking out of a marriage with a guy who genuinely wants to be with her, treats her decently and is self-supporting, simply because she feels the need for an upgrade, there is not much point either in being stuck with a funny/charming/sexy/mysterious etc etc. guy who treats her badly either (as discussed at length in the earlier post on abusive relationships). Again, if there are children involved, I agree that some level of bad treatment (I would draw the line at actual abuse) may need to be tolerated.

You forgot to mention integrity, honesty and general decency in your list. Sometimes these characteristics have to be missing from a relationship, before we realise we need their value. Perhaps the second husband is simply easier to live with.

[editor: integrity, honesty and general decency are like those wonderful things you want in a man……. after you’ve boned him for being so goddamned sexy.]

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on June 7, 2010 at 8:49 pm sdaedalus

Just to clarify my previous comment, I actually don’t think there is much point in any woman, no matter what her age, walking out of a marriage with a guy who genuinely wants to be with her, treats her decently and is self-supporting, simply because she feels the need for an upgrade to a higher-status man, but there is even less point when she is over 30 because the chances of getting a higher-status man are much lower.

However I would reaffirm that high-status is not necessarily the be-and-end-all of relationships, although it may take a bad relationship with a high-status person in order to figure this out.

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on June 7, 2010 at 8:59 pm J

[editor: if the woman is over 35 when she divorces, it is likely her second husband will be lower quality on some important metrics, even if she cannot bring herself to objectively analyze her second husband’s attractiveness traits (it’s a very human bias to want to make the best of an unchangeable situation). the second husband, at the very least, is going to be older than the first, and thus less physically attractive.

Attractive to whom? If my husband died tomorrow, I’d be looking for a guy approximately our age. That’s who I’d be happiest with. Let me put it this way, I can see why Demi Moore sleeps with Ashton Kutcher; I just don’t know why she talks to him. OTOH, didn’t you say a while a go that a guy can never have enough sexual experience? 😉 I’d personally prefer someone who knows the territory to a noob.

but that of course is not the whole story, ….give me the facts and i will discover 9 times out of 10 that the older divorcee has downgraded with her second husband.]

There’s a lot of research on divorce that says people, men and women, tend to remarry people very much like their spouses. That’s why second marriages fail more often than first marriages. People really do make the same mistake twice.

On a personal level, I can tell you that I feel pretty confident that, in the event of a tragedy, I would end up with a guy remarkably like my husband. I have a type; my husband is a member of that type. I am attracted to guys like him, and they are attracted to me. If we were over, I’d eventually remarry Hubby Mach 2. And, it’s what I see most divirced and widowed people doing most of the time. fact, I even see people picking #2 from the same small pool of people they picked #1, which can cause embarrassment at weddings, graduation parties, etc. I also can’t tell you how many widowed people I’ve seen marry their late spouse’s best friend.

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on June 7, 2010 at 9:06 pm J

Lily said, “Sorry Roissy, I just can’t agree with this. I am not even dating again yet but I have higher-quality guys asking to commit to me than when I was 18 (15 years ago). ”

I’m not surprised by this. It just seems that there are fewer jerky men the older they get.

[editor: options = jerkiness.]

Also, I’m significantly older than you are, and I still get frequent IOIs “quality” men my own age and older. I also get the occasional IOI from younger men into MILFs, but that’s just gross. If you take care of yourself, you can still attract good men.

[sure, if you are in the top 10% of looks for your age, you will get more looks from similarly-aged men than other women of your age group. but that is just older men making the best of a shitty situation. they are looking just as hard (harder, really. heh.) at much younger women, but don’t bother following up since they know their chances with those younger women are so low.]

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on June 7, 2010 at 9:06 pm Lily

>>Higher quality? What the does this mean. Better looking? Taller? Bigger dicks? etc…<Yeah, because we all know how hard it is for an 18-year-old girl who is pretty to find a boyfriend.Unless you were fat, you can not look better now than you did when you were 18.That is why when they pick swimsuit models they go after girls in their late teens and girls in their early 20′s, not 30-something women.Most guys want to date younger women. The only reason they don’t is because, after a certain age<
Sorry, I just don't agree that it's most. Or maybe they want to date them or shag them but I don't think most guys want LTRs with *much* younger women. I said most not some. I'm sure there's loads of guys out there my age or older who would prefer to date a 20 year old than a 33 year old, that's fine by me. My pool is wide enough.

Everyone has a personal perspective and no doubt if I moved to Manhattan my perspective would be very different (seems that all the single guys are chasing twenty something models but I don't see who's winning that one if the twenty somethings want LTRs).

But it's really not true that women over thirty have limited options, as J and I both given examples and I get the impression we have completely different lives.

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on June 7, 2010 at 9:08 pm ahappinessexperiment

tho in general a woman’s value drops much faster than a man’s with age — plenty cases abound where the man becomes bald/fat/unemployed/drunk etc. and the erstwhile alpha becomes a loser. those are usually the cases where a women upgrades or at least does as well with a 2nd husband. those cases are common.

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on June 7, 2010 at 9:08 pm Lily

Argh, my post garbled, will retype and make it more concise.

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on June 7, 2010 at 9:12 pm chic noir

Lilly There are 5 guys who would marry me tomorrow (3 of them are alphas, proper ones not gammas doing PUA).

😯

*Chic noir whispers to Dana*

That girl must be tighter than fort knox

Dana replies

And lows better than dizzy gillespie

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on June 7, 2010 at 9:15 pm sdaedalus

[editor: integrity, honesty and general decency are like those wonderful things you want in a man……. after you’ve boned him for being so goddamned sexy.]

I agree that their initial appeal is overrated, and they may well be incompatible with maximum sexiness in a man, but not everyone wants permanent residency in Heartbreak Hotel, some of us see sense & check out eventually.

[editor: you write like a pretty girl.]

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on June 7, 2010 at 9:19 pm chic noir

Philosopher I recommend reading Doug1′s posts on marriage, divorce, alimony, child support, custody, etc.
Doug1 – Take it away

*doug takes a puff from his cuban cigar lit by one of the many nubile 10s who are apart of his stable*

*Doug looks over at a fellow alpha Roissy*

The best thing about being alpha is having betas do all of the footwork.

Lilly to philosopher I will check out doug1′s posts.

*Fellow alpha to doug *

And cleaning up with the women after the betas have warmed them up for us.

*doug and fellow alpha share a toast*

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on June 7, 2010 at 9:21 pm J

[editor: integrity, honesty and general decency are like those wonderful things you want in a man……. after you’ve boned him for being so goddamned sexy.]

Again, who are we talking about? Bar sluts?

[editor: bar sluts is fembot code for “women who sleep with men who aggravate me”.]

I found my husband pretty goddamned sexy the minute I laid eyes on him, but I didn’t sleep with him until after I was sure he had integrity, honesty and general decency. And, he was in no great hurry because he wanted us to last.

[but his sexiness was a necessary prerequisite to being inspired to find out about his nobler traits.]

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on June 7, 2010 at 9:26 pm chic noir

lilly When I was married I used to go to bars and clubs with friends occasionally (say 4 times a year), a mixed group

make her qualify herself… rule number what in the PUA handbook.

lilly Thank you for not butthexxing

*Whiskey mumbles to self*
only cause he’s a beta.

Lilly pay me no attention, I’m just being silly. Welcome aboard. It’s always nice to see another woman in the chateau. just don’t stay to long cause they will slowly suck your soul.

[editor: sucky sucky two dolla!]

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on June 7, 2010 at 9:27 pm Lily

>>Higher quality? What the does this mean. Better looking? Taller? Bigger dicks? etc…<“Yeah, because we all know how hard it is for an 18-year-old girl who is pretty to find a boyfriend.Unless you were fat, you can not look better now than you did when you were 18.<
I was considered underweight when I was 18. The ideal was a UK 10 which is a US 6. Things have changed a lot.

Also, I'm now US2-US4 + I grew breasts disproportionately to my frame. Plus I don't do stupid fashion hair cuts or unflattering clothes.

Yeah maybe I was naturally better looking at 18 than I am now (certainly my body was firmer) but overall I look better to those 4 7+s than I did then plus there's an extra 6 guys. Plus there are guys who are 7+ years older than me who were in the 9+ when they were younger who are out of their first marriages, dated around for a year or two and now want an LTR. They want a younger woman sure, but they also need to take her to work functions or dinner parties so it helps she's not so young she doesn't know who George Osborne is as well as George Lucas. Plus there are guys from other countries.

That's without even dipping into the other 10 from the original 20 (sure there are lots of lovely boys in there!).

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on June 7, 2010 at 9:27 pm chic noir

[editor: you write like a pretty girl.]

*sdaedulus eyes grow as large as saucers as she comes under the spell of an alpha superior.*

*Chic noir quickly sneaks default user out of the chateau *

Finally he’s all mine again.

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on June 7, 2010 at 9:29 pm chic noir

[editor: sucky sucky two dolla!]

well you’re did agree that you’re willing to do something strange for some change.

[editor: i turn bedrooms into laboratories of love. *squeak!*]

Now make me holla for my dolla.

[so you’re a screamer. nothing like keeping the neighbors guessing.]

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on June 7, 2010 at 9:29 pm Lily

Got mangled again, I obviously write too much. Learning my lesson.

Here’s the first part:

*Sigh* It really isn’t rocket science?
Let’s say I knew 20 guys when I was 18. This is actually easy for me as I know most of the guys I knew then.
At 18, 4 of them were 7+s (2 of which are 9+).
There’s a basket of stuff that determines what makes them 7+, this changes as you get older, it includes profession yes, but it also includes there is a wider pool that don’t have a fateful of zits, can talk to the opposite sex like humans, don’t spend their time in their room on Nintendo and now they work out, have nice hair and smell nice too. So all things considered the total in that 20 of 7+s increases to 10. This is NOT lowering standards as you accused.

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on June 7, 2010 at 9:29 pm sdaedalus

[editor: you write like a pretty girl.]

Thank you, although a compliment (even a possibly back-handed one) from such a source reminds me of the Abraham Lincoln quote that flattery and knavery are blood relations.

[editor: it wasn’t back-handed]

To return to the main point of discussion, the key question would seem to be though: are these women happier with their second husbands? You haven’t answered this.

[i’m afraid i won’t let you return to the main point of discussion. we’re too deep to swim in those shallows now.]

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on June 7, 2010 at 9:30 pm J

[editor: options = jerkiness.]

maturity, life experience=lack of jerkiness

[editor: maturity = ennui. life experience = cynicism.]

[sure, if you are in the top 10% of looks for your age, you will get more looks from similarly-aged men than other women of your age group. but that is just older men making the best of a shitty situation. they are looking just as hard (harder, really. heh.) at much younger women, but don’t bother following up since they know their chances with those younger women are so low.]

I thought that, based on the notions commonly promulgated on this blog, that younger women are all dying to be with old farts.

[just how old and farty are we talking here? women generally prefer older men, but a decrepit corpse is not gonna make the hotties swoon without some major compensatory attributes.]

Nonetheless, if I found myself suddenly single again, what the guy fantasized about would be irrelevant as long as he appreciated my position in that top 10% of looks for my age. I mean I fantasize about running off with George Clooney and then leaving him for a slightly younger Robert De Niro after they fight to death for me, but in reality one good guy will do. Sometimes, we need to appreciate what we can get.

[so you admit you would settle?

not that there’s anything wrong with it.]

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on June 7, 2010 at 9:34 pm sdaedalus

Chic

You promised Default you wouldn’t fight with the rest of us girls when he was away.

Remember, there is a harem auction coming up (clearing out for younger fresher chicks), and he has the power to choose who will be your next owner. Any preferences (negative or positive)? Has there been much advance interest? I have been viewed by a few prospective purchasers already.

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on June 7, 2010 at 9:37 pm Lily

@chicnoir
>>make her qualify herself… rule number what in the PUA handbook.<>lilly Thank you for not butthexxing
*Whiskey mumbles to self*
only cause he’s a beta.<It’s always nice to see another woman in the chateau. just don’t stay to long cause they will slowly suck your soul.<
Yeah I have seen the dark soul of the abyss and now understand why the Player type I've been involved with (hence I started reading PUA types) was/is such an emotional mess. Still, some of the commentators are really good and I'm learning a lot.

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on June 7, 2010 at 9:40 pm J

[editor: bar sluts is fembot code for “women who sleep with men who aggravate me”.]

Sadden, not aggravate.

[editor: sadden is fembot code for “pissed he didn’t sleep with me”.]

I’m happy I don’t have a daughter to go through what is starting to look like an inevitable stage of development these days. How painful t would be to watch a daughter get used over and over again while she conned herself into believing it was her idea.

[daughters from loving functional two parent families are less likely to get used over and over again than daughters from broken homes.]

[but his sexiness was a necessary prerequisite to being inspired to find out about his nobler traits.]

It didn’t hurt. 😉

[i know.]

And, I’m sure it was mutual. Nevertheless, we were both adult enough to look for more than that. That’s how we’ve been together 23 years, as opposed to one night.

[sexual attraction is necessary but no sufficient for a beeyootiful LTR.]

Sex is a good and necessary part of love and life, but it shouldn’t be the controlling factor. You can have sex with nearly anyone. It’s harder to find someone to have a life with.

[does someone have a case of the projections? women have an easier time getting laid than getting loved. men have an easier time giving commitment than getting laid (at least with desirable partners).]

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on June 7, 2010 at 9:44 pm sdaedalus

[i’m afraid i won’t let you return to the main point of discussion. we’re too deep to swim in those shallows now.]

You are very funny and it is always nice to see you in good form but I am well used to charmers using their charm to evade difficult questions.

[editor: you say evading, i say enlivening.]

I repeat, are these women happier with their second husbands?

[the divorce rate is higher for second marriages.]

Just to make it easier for you, I will give you three alternatives:-
(a) yes
(b) no
(c) I don’t know (and I don’t give a damn)
The words in brackets in (c) are optional.

[(d) meet me after school.]

PS: I think de la Rochefoucauld also compared flattery to fiat currency (false coin) or some such term.

[the sad cynic kaleidoscopes sincerity into fractals of unctuous flattery. you are too whimsical to be sad. so what made you a cynic?]

PPS: It is always interesting how you start to pay attention to me when Chic Noir is around. I suspect you may be trying to excite her jealousy, please don’f feel you have to comment on this.

[nah, chic is getting jealous all on her own. now where were we…]

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on June 7, 2010 at 9:46 pm Laura

I know a women whose first husband was a handsome, charming professional athlete. He ended up being a jerk. She divorced him and ended up marrying one of his teammates who wasn’t a star like he was. In my opinion the second husband was the better man, but the first husband was more appealing to her initially.

[editor: so — in the trippy words of gbfm — she gave her hotter, younger, tighter bod to the jerk and saved her drier, wrinklier, looser bod for the beta.
got it!]

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on June 7, 2010 at 9:47 pm dana

ha

cutey

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on June 7, 2010 at 9:48 pm Lily

@Chicnoir
>>Lilly There are 5 guys who would marry me tomorrow (3 of them are alphas, proper ones not gammas doing PUA).
*Chic noir whispers to Dana*
That girl must be tighter than fort knox<<
Hah hah, if you're saying what I think you are, one of them knows for certain and I don't know what the other 4 think. There are just loads of great guys out there. They're just not likely to be in clubs and bars chasing 25 year old tail, because you know they have jobs and stuff.

But seeing you extract that, it actually comes across to me like I was bragging. It really wasn't my intention and I hope I haven't offended anyone, it was just a turn of phrase whilst calling out the BS about women over thirty having such limited options. So if anyone perceived it like that, please accept apologies.

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on June 7, 2010 at 9:49 pm chic noir

Still, some of the commentators are really good and I’m learning a lot.

I have too 🙂

sdaedalus You promised Default you wouldn’t fight with the rest of us girls when he was away

rule number 2 of the PUA blogs. never believe a word that comes out of a woman’s mouth.

I have been viewed by a few prospective purchasers already.

*tupac thinks to self*
why she is as lovely as my must clio.

*roissy rubs alpha chin and thinks to self*
my next conquest

Has there been much advance interest?
*chic noir rubs gorbehv’s birth mark for good luck*
well, i gotta couple of nice betas sniffing around.

Remember, there is a harem auction coming up (clearing out for younger fresher chicks), and he has the power to choose who will be your next owner.

*chic noir dead faints*

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on June 7, 2010 at 9:53 pm Lily

>give me the facts and i will discover 9 times out of 10 that the older divorcee has downgraded with her second husband.<
Please stop people rambling on about evil women and hypergamy then 🙂

[editor: female hypergamy can still be in play. an older divorcee who settles for a lower value husband the second time around can still be “marrying up” if her own mating status has dropped further relative to the drop in status between her first and second husbands.]

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on June 7, 2010 at 9:54 pm chic noir

lily Hah hah, if you’re saying what I think you are
I was

lily But seeing you extract that, it actually comes across to me like I was bragging.
a little bragging is good. when you got it, you got it.

It really wasn’t my intention and I hope I haven’t offended anyone

not I, you just gave me a good set up for a joke, that all 🙂 no harm done but some of the men folk here don’t like it when female commenters have anything good to say about themselves.

*shrugs shoulders*

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on June 7, 2010 at 9:55 pm chic noir

George Clooney

shm

social proof for the win on this one.

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on June 7, 2010 at 9:57 pm Jayz

“But seeing you extract that, it actually comes across to me like I was bragging. It really wasn’t my intention and I hope I haven’t offended anyone, it was just a turn of phrase whilst calling out the BS about women over thirty having such limited options. So if anyone perceived it like that, please accept apologies.”

I was just debunking the BS about you being better looking at 33 than 18.

Even you eventually conceded that you looked better at 18.

Look, a woman’s options always depend on her looks, and if she is still good looking and thin in her 30’s, then her options are still pretty good, but her options were even better when she was younger.

I don’t know what is so strange about saying that younger women are better looking than older women.

It is a fact.

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on June 7, 2010 at 9:59 pm greatbooksformen

a women is like a car and today all they are selling are previous rentals and cars that were once officially wrecked lzozlllzllzl

you woudl be wise 2 rent lozlzlzlz

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on June 7, 2010 at 10:03 pm chic noir

darn, you even take discover.

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on June 7, 2010 at 10:18 pm Lily

@Jayz

>Even you eventually conceded that you looked better at 18.but her options were even better when she was younger.I don’t know what is so strange about saying that younger women are better looking than older women.<
It's not a strange thing to say at all. But that does not translate into some general truth on women over thirty having less options than when they were younger. There's no point being hotter when you're 22 and being a good age to marry if no 22 guy wants to marry you, because you know, he's 22.

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on June 7, 2010 at 10:23 pm chic noir

sdaeduls having bit off more alpha that she can PPS: It is always interesting how you start to pay attention to me when Chic Noir is around. I suspect you may be trying to excite her jealousy, please don’f feel you have to comment on this

No maim, he’s your man 🙂

[editor: ha! they just don’t make cartoons like they used to.]

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on June 7, 2010 at 10:23 pm PA

Movies today suck. And to think they used to make such great, poignant, epic, passionate, sublime films back in the day.

Plot summary for “Fraternity Vacation” (1985)

A nerd gains the friendship of two of his frat brothers when his dad offers them his condo for the week in Palm Springs, and also offers the fraternity a hot tub and jacuzzi if they can help his son find a girl.

They meet two guys from a rival fraternity, and make a bet on who can nail the Designated Babe first.

Who wouldn’t wanna see this movie?

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on June 7, 2010 at 10:24 pm Lily

@Jayz

“Even you eventually conceded that you looked better at 18”
I did not. Don’t twist.

I outlined my personal situation but I am NOT an exception.

You keep going on about options but options for what? Being a ONS or fling? If you want an LTR that hardly matters.

““But seeing you extract that”
“I was just debunking”
I was talking to chic about a specific bit she picked out not anything to you.

You obviously chose to fail completely fail take on board any of the points I made as you seem to think you’re right. I’m not saying I am right completely but I would like to have a proper conversation. And don’t try and pick out bits to say that I am conceding to you or apologising to you for anything. Because I’m not.

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on June 7, 2010 at 10:40 pm sdaedalus

[the divorce rate is higher for second marriages.]

This is not really answering the question. I agree that a considerable percentage of second marriages don’t work out, but this doesn’t mean that, on balance, women who divorce would be happier if they stayed in the first marriage.

[editor: the higher rates of divorce for second marriages suggest that the women who are braving the matrimonial pit a second time are not discovering happiness with husband 2.0. in fact, it could be even worse than the raw numbers indicate, as women in their second marriages are quite a bit older with much fewer options on the sexual market, and thus less incentivized to seek the ameliorative of divorce should unhappiness present itself.]

I agree that walking away from a marriage, even if there are no children involved, is not a decision to be taken lightly, I’d even go so far as to say that it should only be done if the marriage is so bad that the woman would be happier alone, even if she never met anyone else.

[men seem to be able to tolerate imperfection in marriage better than women.]

But some marriages are this bad, and there is really no option but to walk in such cases. It is very easy to categorise all cases of divorcing women as examples of hypergamy & unrealistic vanity combined, but this is not always the case.

[not always. but hypergamy is often the underlying, unspoken force that motivates women to become disenchanted with their lackluster or emotionally careless husbands.]

[(d) meet me after school.]

That is very sweet, but I don’t think it would be a good idea for me. Once bitten twice shy I’m afraid.

[once bitten, twice high.]

[the sad cynic kaleidoscopes sincerity into fractals of unctuous flattery. you are too whimsical to be sad. so what made you a cynic?]

Experience. Confirmed by reading your blog. I am not so cynical with everyone, but honesty has its price alas.

[only love can kill the demon.]

[nah, chic is getting jealous all on her own. now where were we…]

Well, you were attempting to evade answering my question by enlightening me as to the charms of the alpha male and I was nobly resisting said charms. I think we can call it a stalemate. For now.

[our once and future stalemate…]

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on June 7, 2010 at 10:43 pm chic noir

5 hrs later….

sdaeduls makes her way out of R’s alpha round bed.

*chic noir looks at sdaeduls*

sdaeduls, you need the help of bhetti MD.

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on June 7, 2010 at 10:46 pm Lily

@sdaedalus
I think people who have divorced once may be more inclined to walk away from another marriage that isn’t working to those who stuck to their marriages no matter what?

All interesting stuff. But it’s late and I’m off to bed We’re in the same time zone, you should too! 🙂

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on June 7, 2010 at 10:56 pm sdaedalus

@Lily
I think people who have divorced once may be more inclined to walk away from another marriage that isn’t working to those who stuck to their marriages no matter what?

I agree. It is a lot easier to do something once if you have done it again. That’s the problem. It becomes a slippery slope and the next thing you know you are Liz Taylor with 7 (or is it 8?) husbands and (with any luck) probably multiple alimony payouts rather than payins.

All interesting stuff. But it’s late and I’m off to bed We’re in the same time zone, you should too! 🙂

I know I should. I am really hopeless and I have to get up for work early tomorrow too. Goodnight. Thanks to all for the discussion. Thanks also Roissy for the entirely unmerited flattery, I am surprised and touched to think that even a small part of it might be sincerely intended.

[editor: nothing i say is given without merit.]

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on June 7, 2010 at 10:56 pm sdaedalus

Chic

Btw I really resent the imputation on my virtue.

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on June 7, 2010 at 11:14 pm julian

“Like all good things this blog has to come to an end.

“I really don’t see what else needs to be said that hasn’t already been said.”

You guys are straight tripping. Roissy is dealing with the eternal conundrum: the relations between the sexes. Any writer worth his salt could continue to write on this subject for decades. You do know how many pages Casanova wrote on this very subject, right ? Something insane like over 10,000 pages. In terms of pure prolixity Casanova ranks as one of the most prolific men to put pen to a page. Not putting Roissy in that category, just but you seriously lack imagination or are simple minded to actually believe that when it comes to one of the largest conundrums known to man “what needs to be said has already been said “.

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on June 7, 2010 at 11:15 pm Philosopher

Lily,
“In Europe, countries with some of the highest divorce rates are the UK (where joint custody is very much the exception) and Finland (where joint custody is quite common). No idea why.”

What is your source for this?

I just read a little about Finland’s system. It’s unclear, but it seems if joint custody is common in Finland, it could be joint LEGAL custody only. PHYSICAL custody likely goes to the mother.
If the parents are unmarried, both legal and physical goes to the mother.

Back to your other post:
“IMHO a typical example is man who has been married for 10/15 years with a SAHW and decides isn’t happy with his life/marriage/whatever but he doesn’t get out, he has an affair.” Perhaps this is true in your social circle, but it isn’t universal.
Again, I’ll state facts. Both sexes cheat. “Husbands were cited for adultery only slightly more often than wives.”
http://www.dadi.org/nyt_brak.htm

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on June 7, 2010 at 11:18 pm chic noir

sdaedulus
Btw I really resent the imputation on my virtue.

ok, sorry

we’ll fix that.

*chic noir goes off for Bhetti MD*

After 10 minutes, bhetti MD annouces to the waiting crowd…

Sdaedalus is pure!

himen intack

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on June 8, 2010 at 12:01 am Anonymouses Anonymous

“[editor: so — in the trippy words of gbfm — she gave her hotter, younger, tighter bod to the jerk and saved her drier, wrinklier, looser bod for the beta.
got it!]”

I believe we have the answer from Roissy that gbfm isn’t going away.

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on June 8, 2010 at 12:14 am Rolling Backpacks

That rss feature on your blog here is magnificent, you should tell more folks about it in your upcoming post. I haven’t noted it for the first couple of times, now I’m using it each morning to check on any updates. I’m on a very slow dial-up link in Jakarta and it’s quite frustrating to sit there and wait for such a long time ’til the page loads… but hey, I just found your rss page and added it to the Google Reader and there you are… I’m always up-to-date! Well pal, keep up the good work and make that rss button a little bigger so that other people can enjoy that as well 😛
00:14

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on June 8, 2010 at 12:54 am sdaedalus

Sdaedalus is pure!

himen intack

Thanks Chic, I appreciate the sentiment but no need to go to extremes, there are some things I would really prefer not to get back. Just an acknowledgment that I am not yet reduced to a Blogging Girl Notch Count would be fine.

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on June 8, 2010 at 1:01 am ahappinessexperiment

look around. there r plenty of 40+ women who have dumped their loser husbands for better deals. i can appreciate that CR doesnt hang in married circles and has no idea, but it is a fact. all that plastic surgery aint to no avail.

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on June 8, 2010 at 1:15 am anoukange

SD-
” Remember, there is a harem auction coming up (clearing out for younger fresher chicks), and he has the power to choose who will be your next owner. Any preferences (negative or positive)? Has there been much advance interest? I have been viewed by a few prospective purchasers already”

–Default has too big a heart to kick us to the curb.

p.s. is he taking requests for what fresh meat he will be working into the harem? Do we get a say by chance?

On a more serious note…how is divorce any easier the second time around? Huh? Long-term break-ups are hard and if they ever become easy for someone than they have become cold, yes?

“It is very easy to categorise all cases of divorcing women as examples of hypergamy & unrealistic vanity combined, but this is not always the case.”

–too true. If women are wired more for love it may come down to the death of love between the two as the culprit of said divorce or ending. ahhh…but that is not the norm of today as they say in these parts. Love is for the foolish and the mindless. But it is the mindful that admit love is foolish and choose it just the same.

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on June 8, 2010 at 2:03 am sdaedalus

@Anouk
Is. is he taking requests for what fresh meat he will be working into the harem? Do we get a say by chance?

You must be joking. The only promise he has made is to leave David Alexander in his natural form pending the sale.

How is divorce any easier the second time around? Huh? Long-term break-ups are hard and if they ever become easy for someone than they have become cold, yes?

Most things get easier the second time round, if only by virtue of having survived them the first time. Also, I’m not sure that things having become cold is a justification, see below.

it may come down to the death of love between the two as the culprit of said divorce or ending. ahhh…but that is not the norm of today as they say in these parts. Love is for the foolish and the mindless. But it is the mindful that admit love is foolish and choose it just the same.

I actually think people should try harder to sort out problems in their relationship before divorcing,even where there are no kids involved. It is too easy to blame everything on the death of love, love can waxe and wane too. But this only works if the other party to the relationship is prepared to accept this fact, move away from their illusion of the one perfect relationship and try again too. Some people just don’t want to fix anything & subscribe to the “if it’s broken, try it out” philosophy. It takes two to make a relationship work.

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on June 8, 2010 at 3:06 am z

I think Greatbooksformen is hysterical and entertaining. Why is it that so many geniuses are a “little crazy”? Maybe its like Waylon Jennings said in song, “Ive always been crazy, but its kept me from going insane”.

Waylon must have had tight game (completely natural), because he married a younger, hot woman (Jessi Colter) and he wrote this legendary lyric:
“The only two things in life that make it worth living,
are guitars the tune good,
and firm-feeling women”

Its been a good summer thusfar……………..misbehavin’

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on June 8, 2010 at 7:03 am sdaedalus

Apologies. Having re-read this the quote in the penultimate line of my comment above should read “if it’s broken, throw it out”.

[I appreciate that there is also an “if it’s broken, try it out” philosophy for those who like damaged goods but that wasn’t actually what I was talking about here]

And by “try again too” I meant try to make the existing relationship work.

In retrospect, it is probably not a good idea to comment on this site when not fully awake. A girl needs her wits about her.

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on June 8, 2010 at 7:09 am Lily

@Philosopher
Re divorce rates
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/this-britain/divorce-rate-falls-but-uk-still-tops-european-league-673779.html

I was quite surprised though as divorce is pretty high in Sweden, it’s really easy to get a ‘no fault’ divorce in Sweden, like 2 weeks. In the UK, people have to have a 2 year separation before they can apply for a divorce unless they cite adultery or unreasonable differences, which case it can be a lot quicker. Even where adultery is involved, many people will go through the 2 year separation period so as not to have that on the records. Also, the other party may not agree to be divorced in which case the party that is pushing for the divorce has to wait for a 5 year separation period.

Here is a link about custody in Finland
http://www.kuusivaara.com/English/Childlaw.htm
You’re right that it’s joint legal custody rather than necessarily a complete 50/50 split on the children’s time but it is preferred that the child spend as much time with both parents and the system is set up for that. It doesn’t always happen, some men make lifestyle changes to make this happen, a lot won’t or can’t in a practical manner. As far as I know, in cases of joint custody, there isn’t much alimony, maintenance etc going on, but it probably helps that women have relatively-good economic status in Finland (maternity length, pay and childcare is set up for that, very different from the UK but arguably more impractical here)

I think you’re right that in Finland unmarried men get less rights to the children than married men. That’s pretty standard procedure though. That’s why it makes sense for men to get married in the UK if they want any rights to the children. It is hard for an father who is not married to the mother to have access to his child if the mother does not want him to and does not claim any money from him. In the cases where she does claim money from him directly or indirectly (she claims benefits they will pay her but go after the man to pay them), then he will have the rights to some access. There is a case for women with a high income to have children with live in partners rather than get married.

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on June 8, 2010 at 7:21 am Lily

@Philosopher I am not disagreeing with you or that article about some link between more women filing than men because of child custody. And I didn’t say that both sexes didn’t cheat, far from it.

It doesn’t make my points invalid.

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on June 8, 2010 at 7:55 am anoukange

Roissy-

“[editor: nothing i say is given without merit.]”

–ha,ha…possibly, but perhaps your word would be taken more seriously if you weren’t so superfluous in your numbers. My mate may be more willing to swoon to the sounds of your sweet nothings had it not been so notoriously noted here that you are a massive flirt..a la Bill Clinton.

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on June 8, 2010 at 9:53 am Pupu

Is it possible to make an anonymous donation?

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on June 8, 2010 at 10:04 am sdaedalus

Anouk

I’m not sure this is helping actually. I always had kind of a soft spot for Bill Clinton.

Also, all this is distracting me from my work.

Btw there’s not much point in swooning round an alpha, although they have many charms, being there to catch a girl mid-fall is not one of them, you could end up with a very sore head from hitting the floor hard.

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on June 8, 2010 at 11:45 am Philosopher

Lily,

I enjoy our discussion but need to go back to work.

You said: “in cases of joint custody, there isn’t much alimony, maintenance etc going on…” In the US, alimony (payments to ex-wife) and child support (payments to ex-wife for children’s expenses) are separate. (They vary by state, but that’s not important here.)
Parents can have both joint legal & physical custody with the father still still paying alimony and child support. Because of joint physical custody, the child support amount is lower. AFIK, alimony is not lowered based on custody.

Regarding joint physical custody (or full-time with father): Research I’ve seen shows kids, especially teenagers, and definitely teenage boys, have better outcomes when they spend a lot of time with their fathers. The more time they spend (yes, including full-time with dad), the better the outcomes. (By better outcomes, I mean all measures, including higher school grades, fewer social pathologies, less drug usage, lower teen pregnancy rates, etc.)

This blog isn’t about parenting and fatherhood, so perhaps CR could write about single father game. It’s great. As one woman told me: It shows a man is available, straight, responsible, another woman would have him (similar to pre-selection), and all your plumbing works.

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on June 8, 2010 at 11:58 am J

interesting article on new baby boomer trend–“silver divorce”–addreses why long-term marriages break up

http://www.newsweek.com/2010/06/07/the-rise-of-the-silver-divorce.html

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on June 8, 2010 at 12:15 pm The Rational Male

Roissy,

You absolutely should write a book. You could help, inspire, and entertain a lot of people with your talent. When you are on fire with really good material it’s the perfect combination of slap-you-upside-the-face education and lollzzzllzlzllzllll entertainment.

I don’t always agree 100% with what you say, but I haven’t missed any of your posts since I started reading your blog.

Do it. Just do it.

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on June 8, 2010 at 12:28 pm J

@ Philospher

“Regarding joint physical custody (or full-time with father): Research I’ve seen shows kids, especially teenagers, and definitely teenage boys, have better outcomes when they spend a lot of time with their fathers. The more time they spend (yes, including full-time with dad), the better the outcomes. (By better outcomes, I mean all measures, including higher school grades, fewer social pathologies, less drug usage, lower teen pregnancy rates, etc.)”

As someone who has spent her entire professional life working with youth, I can attest that this is truer than true. And, historically, the most violent societies were ones with absentee dads. Matriarchy is supposed to raise wimps, but it doesn’t.

About 20 years ago, I noticed that there was an upsurge in homes with no dad and mom relying on her brother to act as a male role model for her uncontrollable son. / At the same time, I noticed that in many Bronze/Iron Age heroic sagas, the hero was a nephew, not son, of a king or tribal cheftain. That’s where we are headed–into an urban Bronze Age.

“… single father game. It’s great. As one woman told me: It shows a man is available, straight, responsible, another woman would have him (similar to pre-selection), and all your plumbing works.”

True, provided that the man’s bad behavior did not cause the divorce……It can be a double-edged sword.

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on June 8, 2010 at 1:16 pm Lily

@Philosopher
>Regarding joint physical custody (or full-time with father): Research I’ve seen shows kids, especially teenagers, and definitely teenage boys, have better outcomes when they spend a lot of time with their fathers.<
I really am not surprised by this. It would be good if more countries moved towards joint physical custody similar to the scandinavian countries and I really hope they do. It does often entail sacrifices on both parents side though.

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on June 8, 2010 at 1:24 pm Philosopher

J,

So if what I wrote is “truer than true”, and widely-known, why do courts grant physical custody to the mother 90% of the time? After all, most laws I’ve read clearly say a court is supposed to act “in the child’s best interest”.

Even if “the man’s bad behavior” lead to divorce, some women rationalize it and blame the ex-wife, especially if the man is a good dad and has no huge, obvious faults. Like this:
“If he cheated, then it’s because the ex didn’t take care of his needs.”
“If he drank too much after they were married, then she drove him to it.”
“The ex-wife gained a lot of weight/dressed like a slob/was a bitch, etc., so why would he want to stay with her?”

Before sending me hate mail, notice I wrote “some women” do this, not “all women”.

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on June 8, 2010 at 1:36 pm Lily

@Philosopher

IMO it’s just a cultural/timing thing, as it becomes more of a norm for men to have joint custody, more men will ask for it. I don’t think the courts would grant it unless someone asked for it? If you said in 90% of cases where the man asks for joint custody it is denied, that would be a different matter. As these arrangements become more common then men will see people in their peer group and how it works for them and then think of how it can work for them.

It doesn’t surprise me on women’s reactions. If a woman gets involved with someone and you like/love them, if they’ve supposedly done a bad thing in the past then you accept that about them because you love them and nobody’s perfect, we’ve all made mistakes. Or some women because they do love/like you will try and justify whatever you did. It’s like how women get attached to someone they’ve had sex with even if the person is a complete toad they’ll justify it because you know if they slept with them they must be good as ‘you selected them’.

I was reading about Farmville (silly game on Facebook) the other day about how when someone has broken the barrier to spend a bit of money, they’ll keep playing because the game must be good if they spent money on it. I think they make something like 1 million dollars a day.

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on June 8, 2010 at 1:57 pm Lily

I just looked up the situation in the UK and notice the US research mentioned in it so it must be quite widely known.
http://www.separateddads.co.uk/SharedCustodyOfYourChildren.html

One thing I forgot to say is that in the UK, child custody is usually resolved without going to the court (on a divorce, there are 3 things dealt with completely separately – the divorce, child custody and finances), it’s usually done in something we called mediation.

Personally, I only know 2 men who asked for more than the usual every other weekend + 1 night a week and both got it. One has 50/50 which he negotiated with his wife (and he was generous in alimony which possibly influenced her agreeing) and the other more or less has sole but had to take it to court because his wife didn’t agree.

I know you said I shouldn’t talk about my personal social circle but it is good to see different perspectives from different people’s situations, you get a better understanding than just reading stats or newspapers. And knowing a Finnish family court judge was handy 😉

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on June 8, 2010 at 2:25 pm Philosopher

Lily,

I don’t know stats on how many men ask for joint/sole custody and don’t get it. Interested in knowing…
My case: My wife was a SAHM and moved out of state. I asked attorneys about joint custody. All had the same reply: No f-ing way. It will never happen. Don’t waste your money. I offered $50k but got no takers.
I gained custody anyway but cannot blog it.

Regarding women rationalizing and blaming the ex-wife – I see your point.
It happened to me (and other men I know) separate from involvement. The women were 30 and older. Some were married. Perhaps it was simple pre-selection.
Around the same time, I discovered married women seem to know lots of unattached women. It’s part of a married woman’s “homewrecker defense”; they don’t want single women tempting their husbands, so they happily match desirable women with available men.

Lily & J:
As we all agree about custody, will you petition your elected officials to change custody laws?

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on June 8, 2010 at 2:37 pm J

“So if what I wrote is “truer than true”, and widely-known, why do courts grant physical custody to the mother 90% of the time? After all, most laws I’ve read clearly say a court is supposed to act “in the child’s best interest”.”

I think our cultural concept of the “child’s best interests” have shifted. At the turn of the last century, it was nearly impossible for a woman to get custody. Then it was noticed that young kids needed momma, and the “tender years” concept became the normative guideline. Many states allow teens to have majot input into which parent gets custody.

“Before sending me hate mail, notice I wrote “some women” do this, not “all women”

Thanks for the “some.” I think often naivete and desperation drive some women to rationalize a man’s bad behavior.
And sometimes the woman really is the “bad actor,” or both or no one is at fault.

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on June 8, 2010 at 2:38 pm Lily

@Philosopher
Well done for staying dedicated. Too many guys give up or don’t bother. One thing I really dislike is when women move the children away, I know in some cases they have moved away from families to get married etc, but once you have children that child’s interest (which should involve both parents unless the dad is a deadbeat) comes first till they are grown.

“As we all agree about custody, will you petition your elected officials to change custody laws?”
I wouldn’t petition myself because there are a lot of other people with more vested interests who do this (in the UK we have an organisation called Fathers4Justice who are very vocal) and I have plenty of other things I’m involved in 🙂

I did support my friend who went for custody of his child, interestingly his male friends didn’t as they didn’t think he’d get it or would manage it practically (I think it helped my opinion that I knew scandinavian people for whom it worked for, but on the whole I was supportive, another female friend was supportive and so was his mother but not his male friends). It was mainly just moral support but I did write a character statement for him as well as offer with babysitting etc. Though others who discouraged him for going for it did too of course.

“Around the same time, I discovered married women seem to know lots of unattached women. It’s part of a married woman’s “homewrecker defense to match”
Woah, that’s very cynical. There may possibly be some truth in that in the unconcious that I’m not aware of, but I think women whether married or unmarried match people up, it’s just something in our genes.

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on June 8, 2010 at 2:45 pm J

“Lily & J:
As we all agree about custody, will you petition your elected officials to change custody laws.”

I live in state where most most cases end with joint custody, which I think is fair. ( I’m glad you were able to get it.) Supposedly, who gets physical custody is decided on “best interests” after psych evaluations of the parents, home visits, etc., but I don’t know how effective that really is. I would certainly favor reform of the current system based, not on men’s or women’s rights, but on kid’s rights. Kids are the real losers in a divorce.

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on June 8, 2010 at 2:52 pm Philosopher

Lily,

I meant that you shouldn’t rely on your social circle…

Perhaps men don’t ask for custody because the answers are:
1 – no
2 – hell no
3 – The court process will be expensive, time-consuming, and may damage your relationship with your kids.
4 – You will have to bribe your ex-wife with large alimony payments.

BTW: In the US, child support payments are calculated on the father’s income and not based on the actual amount it costs to raise the child. Some call child support “stealth alimony”. If you want to read more, Google the term and marriage 2.0.

This discussion began as relates to divorce. Research in the US clearly shows women initiate divorce KNOWING they will gain control of the children.
Change child custody laws to presume joint custody and you reduce divorce rates. With joint custody, child support often is eliminated.

If your desires are to reduce the divorce rate and encourage men to get married, you could do it by:
Eliminating alimony
Legally guarantee joint physical custody. This will eliminate child support. If joint physical custody will not work for one parent, and the parents cannot reach an agreement, then and only then will a court or mediator adjust custody and award child support payments.

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on June 8, 2010 at 2:52 pm namae nanka

Women and children are the real victims of war.

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on June 8, 2010 at 2:54 pm namae nanka

Mr. Philosopher, I pray thee, do not insult a woman by reasoning with her.
Either say:
yes dear,
yes mistress,
gtfo.

Agree and amplify or don’t bother.

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on June 8, 2010 at 2:55 pm Lily

@Philosopher

“Even if “the man’s bad behavior” lead to divorce, some women rationalize it and blame the ex-wife, especially if the man is a good dad and has no huge, obvious faults.”
“Regarding women rationalizing and blaming the ex-wife – I see your point.
It happened to me (and other men I know) separate from involvement”

I just thought about this more, you’re right it’s not just to do with sexual involvement (though I do think if you are sexually involved it affects your rationality).

In nearly every divorce case I know, the man is has had some bad behaviour, for example the friend I mentioned with the sole custody ‘committed adultery’ various times,
but you know what none of us is perfect. Who am I to judge him, he’s my friend and as such, I’ll tell him if I think he’s behaving badly to others or to me, but he’s not evil.

Are women more forgiving than men? Do we give more leeway to people’s pasts? I don’t know. We’re not madonnas (but contrary to what Roissy, Roosh et al think we’re not all whores either).

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on June 8, 2010 at 2:58 pm namae nanka

http://www.ihatewomen.com/holywomandocument.cfm

The Ultimate Woman understanding Document. Remember, to Pretend to understand women is bad manners, to really understand them is bad morals…prepare yourself.

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on June 8, 2010 at 2:59 pm Lily

@namae nanka
“yes mistress”
yes that’s the spirit. Well in the bedroom at least..sometimes..when it’s my turn 🙂

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on June 8, 2010 at 3:03 pm namae nanka

“yes that’s the spirit. Well in the bedroom at least..sometimes..when it’s my turn”

Yes madam, it’ll always be your turn in my bedroom.Just don’t get bored and attach madonna feathers to your ass to pirouette in some church.

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on June 8, 2010 at 3:21 pm Lily

@Philosophy

I agree with all your points except

“Change child custody laws to presume joint custody and you reduce divorce rates”
Finland shows otherwise (as does possibly Sweden but I don’t know enough about it).
Other factors are in play, such as women are likely to be earning a decent income (paid 1 year maternity leave, high standard of state-funded childcare), if a woman decides she’s unhappy (which lots of Finnish women do, Finnish men really don’t talk much and a lot of them drink a lot), she will leave her marriage. She’s more open to joint custody than say a SAHM in the UK whose life has revolved around her children and now has decreased earning power.

“Eliminating alimony.”
I don’t think this is fair on the woman if the man and the woman have decided that she is going to be a SAHM. It’s better to have a prenup where this is decided upfront. It’s not an issue for me personally (sadly my father died when I was relatively young and I also made a lot of money which I mainly put away so I could work selectively if/when I have children) but I can see this is an issue for many women. If you didn’t have much money when you went into a marriage, you stay at home as you and your husband jointly decide that, and the marriage finishes after 10 or 20 years, your ability to earn an income is diminished as a result.

As for child support in the event of a divorce, I think this is something that should be covered in a prenup too, you work out that each child needs x (allowing for inflation of course) and each parent contributes x amount into a trust fund for this purpose.

And IMO you’re right that child support shouldn’t be linked to the man’s income regardless of how much it costs to raise a child.

But there is a link between the man’s income and children. If I marry someone richer I expect them to provide more financially for our children than if I marry someone less well-off. So in my case, if I married someone richer, the child support bit of the prenup would be a higher amount and would for example include school fees and we’d either contribute 50/50 into the fund or if he as a lot more money than me then maybe something like 2 thirds/1 third. But obviously if I marry someone who doesn’t have as much money, it’s not a fair expectation to expect them to pay for things like school fees. Either the child goes to a state school or I try and get them a scholarship or I have to pay on my own.

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on June 8, 2010 at 3:36 pm Philosopher

Namae Nanka,

“Women and children are the real victims of war.” GTFO!
Where are you? I’d spank you for that!

Pick a war, any war. How many women died? How many men died? Far more men, I’m sure.

Watch this video. Audio starts at 15 seconds. Watch closely at 6:58.

http://www.youtube.com/user/manwomanmyth#p/u/0/6ZAuqkqxk9A

Watch the YouTube videos from:
ManWomanMyth and visit his site: ManWomanMyth.com
ArgusEyes – Warren Farrell’s multi-part speech

Read about Misandry.

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on June 8, 2010 at 3:37 pm Philosopher

Lily,

Where are you, Finland?

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on June 8, 2010 at 3:45 pm namae nanka

Philosopher guy you are funny dood, did you read what I wrote below that?
Did you read what was written above that? My post got lost in moderation and you’re fast.

“Kids are the real losers in a divorce.”

“women and kids are the real victims of war.”

thanks for the video i’ve already spread it far and wide.

And since unfortunately you aren’t woman I can’t take you up on the spanking offer. 😦

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on June 8, 2010 at 3:48 pm namae nanka

Philosopher
don’t write so long winded responses to women, you are wasting their time and any philosopher worth his salt would know the futility of it.
You are better off doing something of value, like say, trying to be a genius or picking up chicks.

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on June 8, 2010 at 3:56 pm Lily

No, I’m English.

Sadly prenups aren’t legally binding under English law yet (hopefully), but I’d still want one when I get married again (and would stick to my side of the bargain), if nothing else it helps work out if you’re on the same page in regards to what the marriage entails and the event of a marriage breakdown.

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on June 8, 2010 at 3:56 pm Philosopher

Lily & J:

me: “Change child custody laws to presume joint custody and you reduce divorce rates”
Lily: “Finland shows otherwise (as does possibly Sweden but I don’t know enough about it).”

The Finnish site you mentioned does not have enough information to support your assertion, but I’ll keep an open mind. Ask your judge for evidence, and send him the study below.

I’m advocating for joint physical custody, which is very different from joint legal custody.

Here is a university study of 46,000 divorces in four US states. Both authors are univ profs: one female, one male. Dr Brinig, quoted below, is female.
http://www.dadi.org/nyt_brak.htm

The factor that determined most (divorce) cases, turned out to be the question of child custody. Women are much more willing to split up because — unlike men — they typically do not fear losing custody of the children. Instead, a divorce often enables them to gain control over the children.

“The question of custody absolutely swamps all the other variables,” Dr. Brinig said. “Children are the most important asset in a marriage, and the partner who expects to get sole custody is by far the most likely to file for divorce.”

The correlation with custody is so strong, Dr. Brinig said, that she has changed her view about the best way to preserve marriages and protect children. She previously advocated an end to quick no-fault divorces, but she now believes that the key is to rewrite custody laws.

In most states, including New York, New Jersey and Connecticut, mothers can fight for and usually win sole custody. But some states have recently begun making joint custody the presumptive norm.

That change in the law seems to be keeping more couples together, according to this study and other work by Dr. Brinig. She and colleagues have noted a decline in divorce in states with joint-custody laws. And when couples do divorce, fathers who share custody are less likely to renege on their child-support payments.

Dr. Brinig favors a law like the one recently enacted in West Virginia, which typically awards each parent a share of custody according to how much time that parent spent with the child during the marriage. Besides eliminating some of the vicious court fights that now take place over custody, she said, such a law could lead to fewer divorces.

“Custody is now a way — in some marriages the only way — for women to achieve a real show of force over men,” Dr. Brinig said. “If you remove that distortion, it’s apt to change the way men and women relate to each other and to their kids. Fathers are likely to spend more time with kids if they can expect to still see them if the marriage doesn’t work out. Women will be more likely to see men as parenting partners, and less likely to use divorce as a power play.”

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on June 8, 2010 at 4:01 pm Philosopher

Namae Nanka,
Are you a woman?

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on June 8, 2010 at 4:02 pm namae nanka

well that depends on how much of a man you are.

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on June 8, 2010 at 4:05 pm namae nanka

1st rule of philosophy, don’t take woman seriously
2nd rule of philosophy, don’t take woman seriously

3rd rule of philosophy, matricide.

figuratively, in your head.

patricide follows and then God.

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on June 8, 2010 at 4:14 pm Lily

The judge is a she 🙂 It’s common for people in Finland to have close to 50/50 physical custody with little or no child support.

I just did a very quick google search and in Finland in the 80s, 75% of women had a job (presumably it’s the same or more now). Also “In 1983 legislation arranged that both parents were to have equal rights for custody of their children”. Admittedly, that’s not spelling out that it’s necessarily physical custody.

I just did another quick google search and it looks like Finland has lesser percentage of working mothers than the US (Sweden is by far the highest), but I would imagine that across society the level income is higher. Finnish women’s careers like Sweden (and even France) don’t ‘suffer’ from having children in the same way they do elsewhere. I’m not saying that I think we should get more maternity leave etc in the UK (because we probably can’t afford it) but that’s a different topic.

“Women will be more likely to see men as parenting partners, and less likely to use divorce as a power play.”
I really agree with this. And I agree with joint custody should be the norm unless one parent is not able to do it in a way that’s beneficial to the child. I am just not convinced it will necessarily reduce divorce rates much overall.

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on June 8, 2010 at 4:21 pm Lily

@namae nanka
“1st rule of philosophy, don’t take woman seriously
2nd rule of philosophy, don’t take woman seriously”
Whatever, the lady’s not for turning. And if you don’t understand the reference, JFGI.

“3rd rule of philosophy, matricide”
Aww, didn’t your mummy love you?
All boys need love.

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on June 8, 2010 at 4:24 pm namae nanka

My mummy hated me. *sob*..me want some mummy love, mistress. Milk time??

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on June 8, 2010 at 4:26 pm namae nanka

And I have run out of self-love…the bitch she should die.

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on June 8, 2010 at 4:35 pm Philosopher

Namae Namka,

You wrote, “don’t write so long winded responses to women”. You refer to Lily and J?

Both Lily and J appear to be thoughtful, caring, and intelligent women. If they were not, my responses would be shorter.
This is an online conversation. I happen to appreciate a thoughtful woman.

Read their posts from today. Both care about children, family, society and our future.

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on June 8, 2010 at 4:46 pm namae nanka

I have been here some time now, 🙂

“Both Lily and J appear to be thoughtful, caring, and intelligent women. If they were not, my responses would be shorter.”

haha one of them is a self-confessed horse-rider, the other’s my mistress.They might be intelligent but intelligence is cheap for a philosopher.

Facades, facades everywhere.Of thought, of care and of a woman who possess both.

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on June 8, 2010 at 4:46 pm Philosopher

Lily,

“I am just not convinced it will necessarily reduce divorce rates much overall.”

OK. The study doesn’t actually state HOW MUCH divorce rates are declining, only that they ARE declining.

“Some states have recently begun making joint custody the presumptive norm.”

“That change in the law seems to be keeping more couples together, according to this study and other work by Dr. Brinig. She and colleagues have noted a decline in divorce in states with joint-custody laws.”

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on June 8, 2010 at 4:51 pm namae nanka

Intelligent woman are the most dangerous ones,
for it you tell them everything you know, they have the capability to understand it.
And then she rises above you for she has the vagina and you don’t.
Unless you have something in reserve don’t have intelligent conversations with intelligent women, they will suck you dry, hang your skin over their shoulder and become you.
Islam has the right idea of not teaching women but those fckers are also going the way of dodo.

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on June 8, 2010 at 4:53 pm namae nanka

Because woman can never be equal to you, the whole girlfriend thing is immeasurably stupid, for a girl can never be your friend, she can never be your equal. She is either above you or below you. She either thinks you are spongeworthy, or you are not.
A man you taught will remember his master, a woman you taught will become your mistress.

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on June 8, 2010 at 4:59 pm Lily

@ Philosopher

The study also said “such a law *could* lead to fewer divorces” Time will tell, other things being equal. Could lead to more male-initiated divorces?

Whatever happens, I do hope that joint custody becomes more of the norm than exception.

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on June 8, 2010 at 5:00 pm namae nanka

Oh and not the mistress of yesteryears, but the one who will crush your balls and enjoy it.

I think that’s enough for one day philosopher dude, now who knows maybe you are a woman and you might deem me unfcukable if I ejaculate everything I have learned, so I take my leave.

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on June 8, 2010 at 5:13 pm Lily

@namae nanka
I feel sorry for you. You’re blocking off half of the world. There are some really amazing people around of both genders.

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on June 8, 2010 at 5:35 pm Philosopher

Lily,

You and I are referring to different paragraphs.

Check the paragraph above “could lead to fewer divorces”. Here it is.

“That change in the law seems to be keeping more couples together, according to this study and other work by Dr. Brinig. She and colleagues HAVE NOTED A DECLINE IN DIVORCE IN STATES WITH JOINT-CUSTODY LAWS. (emphasis mine) And when couples do divorce, fathers who share custody are less likely to renege on their child-support payments.”

I’m an American, but I know “the lady’s not for turning”. What did she carry in her handbag anyway? I cannot imagine an American politician carrying one. You?

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on June 8, 2010 at 5:42 pm J

@ Philosopher

“Both Lily and J appear to be thoughtful, caring, and intelligent women. If they were not, my responses would be shorter.”

Thanks.

@namae

“haha one of them is a self-confessed horse-rider,”

Yes, it’s true. I have ridden a horse. I confess. Is there no absolution??

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on June 8, 2010 at 5:46 pm Lily

“You and I are referring to different paragraphs”
You’re right. And it is an interesting study. I just think it’s the only factor in play in all divorces in all societies if other things aren’t equal.

“What did she carry in her handbag anyway?”
I’m not sure she carried much in it as they have those red boxes for government business. Maybe she just carried as some sort of implied threat in case any ministers didn’t toe the line?? Instead a three line whip, they get a whack around the head with the handbag?

“I cannot imagine an American politician carrying one. You?”
I can’t imagine Cameron et al with one either 🙂 And I can’t think of a female politician with great handbags but the Queen always has great handbags! From what I understand, Mrs/Baroness T had a bit of an insecurity because of her background.

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on June 8, 2010 at 5:48 pm Lily

@Philosopher
“Both Lily and J appear to be thoughtful, caring, and intelligent women”
Thank you.

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on June 8, 2010 at 6:24 pm namae nanka

“I feel sorry for you. You’re blocking off half of the world. There are some really amazing people around of both genders.”

Yes mistress spank me for my delusions, don’t be sorry for me.Don’t hate me.

“Yes, it’s true. I have ridden a horse. I confess. Is there no absolution??”

no maa’m, you are a woman, you don’t have the balls so you ride the horse.You love the horse.(figuratively)

Now ladies my Apollonian is taking over, so this interaction must end.
A pity that I don’t drink, Dionysian intoxication is so wonderful for getting something off your chest.
But please don’t drop in on conversations of men, don’t make them look foolish.

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on June 8, 2010 at 7:13 pm Polymath

Chat/Roi,

Technical suggestion: provide an option so people can see the “recent comments” window with more than 10 comments in it, or scroll some much larger number like 50 or 100. Otherwise it’s harder to keep up with the different threads one is following.

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on June 8, 2010 at 9:24 pm lovelysexybeauty

@maurice re:”too hot for banking”

Interestingly, that woman who was fired for supposedly being “too hot” was in a report on plastic surgery where she increased her breast implants only 18 months after her first implant surgery:

http://www.veoh.com/browse/morelike/v19489738JfM4Nwrg#

Although the video seems to be from over 5 years ago, it’s interesting that she talks about wanting to get the “Playboy bunny look because that’s what men have as their fantasy and want” (paraphrased).

I myself find it a struggle to have an MO that is both appealing to men outside of work, with one that is also successful at work. So to hear Debrahlee dress well, and get at least 4 major surgeries (not to speak of nonsurgery beauty improvements) and struggle workwise is interesting. Maybe it’s not possible to do both unless you are in fashion or something….

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on June 8, 2010 at 9:54 pm J

@namae

“you don’t have the balls so you ride the horse.You love the horse.(figuratively)”

I watched the video. Balls are apparently a drawback when it comes to horseback riding.

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on June 8, 2010 at 10:35 pm namae nanka

Yes that’s why I try to run like a horse.That’s why women like a man who, well, can be ridden like a horse.

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on June 8, 2010 at 10:48 pm Philosopher

J

Yes, riding without a saddle can be painful.

Stirrups allow a man to lift up a little and ease the pressure.

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on June 8, 2010 at 11:15 pm J

@Philosopher

Nah, you just need strong legs to lift yourself and to move in concert with the horse’s movements. You don’t want to ping when the horse pongs. That’s what makes it hurt.

Women tend to like riding more than men because women have more lower body strength and ca more easily avoid being jostled by the horse’s movements Riding is the one sport where lower body strength matters, so women can excel at it.

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on June 8, 2010 at 11:22 pm J

“That’s why women like a man who, well, can be ridden like a horse.”

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm.

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on June 8, 2010 at 11:26 pm namae nanka

“Women tend to like riding more than men because women have more lower body strength”

haha haha haahaa

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on June 9, 2010 at 12:31 am Cannon's Canon

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on June 9, 2010 at 7:28 am namae nanka

Cannon’s Canon

Are you a woman?
If no, then I can see the gender gap disappearing, like the college gap, in the future. It’s inevitable.The only gap I am interested is in that of brains and the concept of self.Though social conditioning is doing a pretty good job at it.

If yes, squat me please.I weigh less than your warm up.

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on June 9, 2010 at 10:13 am J

@namae

Are you laughing because you doubt that women have more lower body strength than men or because it sounded like I meant women like horseback riding more than they like men?

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on June 9, 2010 at 10:09 pm Doug1

Lily–

If a man and woman have got married and have agreed that she will stay at home and not work , either she had no income to speak of before or gives up her income, how can you expect her to be able to jointly contribute to the kids raising 10 years later when they divorce. I wouldn’t get into that situation personally but many women do. And the men can’t be all oh the bitch has taken me to the cleaners when they wanted her to be at home and not earn an income.

If a woman stays at home raising two children for ten years that’s ultimately her decision alone. He can’t force her to do it, nor can he legally force her to go to work at an earlier stage. Many times men try to encourages wives to go back to work and they don’t do it. Happens a lot. Happened with my brother for decades. Living at home “raising” two or three children in school is an incredibly easy life. Caring for infants and two year olds might not be so easy but older children are. Women doing such have huge amounts of spare time which many of them squander quite bit, though daytime soap opera tv and lots of the popular and romantic novel publishing industry is built heavily on such women’s free and easy time. As is lots of impulse shopping and so on.

Few men who did encourage their wife to stay home and raise even kids who were all in school also thinks it’s ok when she decides she’s bored, it’s his fault, and she wants a divorce. She violating her part of that bargain in the biggest way.

so no I don’t think she should get alimony. Tough. I don’t think she should get the jacked up child support = included stealth alimony either. At absolute most she should get three years of transitional alimony but I’m opposed to that too.

Of course I’d never encourage such slacker behavior in a wife. Her waiving all alimony under all circumstances in the prenup I’d require before even considering marriage with anyone in America with it’s current divorce 2.0 laws, would be instructive in her decision making on several fronts down the line. It would tend to discourage her from filing divorce, and discourage her from being an extended idler at home using the two maximum kids as an excuse as well. All well and good.

Since women no longer effectively promise anything in marriage, men shouldn’t promise any kind of support when marrying that lasts longer than the marriage, so far as they are legally able to do that. Since a prenup can’t effect child support and since that includes a stealth alimony component since the feminist overhall under the “dead beat dads” slogan in the late 80s, early 90s, all other avenues of cutting off flow of funds from man to woman after she files for divorce should be addressed in the prenup. Which should therefore mimic living together in the event of a divorce.

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on June 9, 2010 at 10:34 pm KAUSHIK CHATTERJEE

Hey Roissy,
I have written to you a number of times but you haven’t responded. Speaking of yoga, its from India (I know you know) and here’s news from India —

TODAY’S TIMES OF INDIA — JUNE 10, 2010
The Government of India wants to include “IRRETRIEVABLE BREAKDOWN OF MARRIAGE” as a reason for divorce in the law under the HINDU MARRIAGE ACT and THE SPECIAL MARRIAGES ACT (Which governs marriages between people belonging to different faiths who have a civil wedding). The paper says it is meant for enabling people to leave marriages where they don’t want to stay. Our version of DC Lawyer Kamini Jaiswal says it would benefit urban women who want to opt out but she is worried about rural women and wants alimony provisions, access to assets etc etc. PERHAPS ITS OUR VERSION OF THE NO FAULT DIVORCE.
ROISSY, ASAP, BRING OUT A BOOK ON YOUR WRITINGS AND SHIP A MILLION COPIES FREE OF CHARGE TO INDIA AS A SPECIAL CHARITY FOR US FOLKS. However, on a serious note, do write a book, I assure it will sell. And looking forward to a reply this time.

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on June 9, 2010 at 10:42 pm fan

I am willing to pay you on a contingency basis. Something like $75 for an hour’s worth of consultation from you -approach/strategy. Can be over email.

Be careful with the donations – report all of them on your taxes. You have pissed off enough people by now that you shouldn’t be doing anything illegal.

In the US, we seem to prefer everyone being guilty of something, giving authorities the power to go after whomever they want.

Driving at 60mph in a 55mph zone? no problem
Driving at 60mph in a 55mph zone with an anti Obama sticker? problem

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on June 9, 2010 at 11:02 pm Philosopher

J

Giddy up.

Doug1

good post, as usual
I wish you had a blog. I’d like to have a compilation of your posts on: marriage, divorce, custody, support, alimony, etc.

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on June 9, 2010 at 11:03 pm the realist

“Women tend to like riding more than men because women have more lower body strength”

lzozlzolzozlzozlz

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on June 10, 2010 at 12:59 am Doug1

Oh. My brother and his wife met in Stanford business school, same class.

He got a job at a leading investment bank. She got a job at a corp headquartered in Stamford, Connecticut. They lived in Manhattan to start, with her reverse commuting to Conn., then moved to nearby Stamford Conn. after a few years w/him commuting.

Her jobs was some sort of corporate hot shot fast track thing. Which she did well at for about three years, then apparently fell from grace. Her obnoxious personality when challenged would have had a lot to do with that I’d guess but of course this was deeply obfuscated. A year later or so she gives birth to her first child and never sets foot onto paid employment again. No my brother didn’t stay at his starting investment bank in NY as most don’t, but moved on to a Texas oil and gas investment banking thing that he co founded with a partner. It’s doing pretty well, not utter gang busters. He hasn’t been able to get his wife to work even after both girls went off to high school out of state, and then college.

In Texas she gets no real alimony, since the property division is enough to get her started. At most she’d have gotten three years worth. But that’s Texas. Not most places. It should be every place.

Except better men should demand prenups or refuse to marry.

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on June 10, 2010 at 6:56 pm Lily

@ Doug

I don’t disagree on alimony or prenups. And I do think it is better just to have it all settled once and for all. There was a shocking case here recently where a woman went back to the courts for more alimony after 20 years of divorce, the second wife is as you can imagine was not happy as this alimony is coming out of a the joint pot of the second marriage.

However, at least in the UK we have quite a few men who don’t want their wives to work because of
a) male pride thing (my wife ‘doesn’t need’ to work)
b) lifestyle
c) thinks mother should be the main caregiver, doesn’t want his children in after school clubs etc

In regards to b, I know several men who fit this profile:
1) over 40
2) works long hours
3) travels a lot internationally
4) earns over 200k

and none of them want their wives to work as it would impact their work and life, or if they do they want them to have a very light part time job. If these women were to get divorced, they would be pretty badly off in comparison to their life now.

Here at least, whilst the laws on the whole seem to penalise men (outcome), they are actually applied fairly consistently so I don’t see them as feminist, it’s just that on the whole women are more likely to be beneficiaries. But certainly all these things happen here to some women and they rightly or wrongly feel hard done by them:

– woman earns more than man, has to pay him alimony
– woman has high-flying office job, man may have equal or less income but works freelance from home and took care of the kids more, can get bulk of custody (and gets child support at least and possibly alimony)
– property gets divided 50/50 but woman contributed more financially than 50% (and certainly more than a non working woman would have done but that’s a different issue)

Just some examples.

It almost seems in some ways to be going back to what happened before the married woman’s property act of 1882 (that is one ‘feminist’ law I really support and I am sure my father and other fathers would too!) when a woman’s property upon marriage became her husband’s.

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on June 10, 2010 at 8:14 pm namae nanka

J

“Are you laughing because you doubt that women have more lower body strength than men or because it sounded like I meant women like horseback riding more than they like men?”

[editor: just to interject here…
women do not have stronger lower body strength than men. what they have is a lower center of gravity, which may help explain why activities like horseback riding come more naturally to them.]

The former.

“I meant women like horseback riding more than they like men”

Women love men for the same reasons that they love horses, one is to be ridden into the sunset, other until sunrise.
Only if horses could tick off more points on the checklist…

KAUSHIK CHATTERJEE

I know we are gonna follow the west but this is surreal.It should have been a decade more at least.shit.

“Kamini” sounds apt for her kind of woman.

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