Do you want to see the sexual market raw and uncensored, all superfluous hypocrisy and rationalization stripped clean? Watch this 20 minute reality TV show called ‘Battle of the Bods’. (It’s more exciting than watching soccer.) Five skimpily dressed women are asked to compare themselves on their faces, asses, and overall look. Call it the World Slut Cup. The women hiss and scratch each other until they reach a sort of consensus on where they rank, and then their self-evaluations are matched up with the evaluations of the three male judges sitting in a judging booth behind one-way glass. The closer the evaluations match, the more money the girls win.
Before the usual suspects chime in, I checked around for evidence that the show was faked. I didn’t find any, so let’s operate on the assumption that what you see in this show is what you get. Why would grown women ritualistically humiliate themselves for fame and (a very small) fortune? After watching this clip you’ll come to understand that a financial incentive was not needed. Once the competitive spirit is unleashed in the one market to rule them all, an ancient spirit force lumbers up from the depths of the human psyche to do its will, and politesse yields mercilessly as claws and fangs are bared for the kill. The men’s own market value was barely a factor to inspire this cat fight! All that was needed to inspire the worst in the women was knowledge that they were being judged, one against the other, by men sight unseen.
A few observations:
This show is further proof that Russian women are, on average, the most beautiful women in the world. Was WWII a great evil that birthed a great good? And, if so, would that be evidence for, or against, god?
It is also more proof that men pretty much think alike about what constitutes female beauty. I agreed with the final ranking.
It also offers evidence that men of different large scale racial groups differ slightly in their sexual preferences. The one black man on the judge’s panel expressed a clear preference for the black woman’s bigger butt, while the two white men preferred the less obtrusive asses of the white girls.
Josie, the yapping yenta and least attractive of the five women, immediately comes out swinging. She intuitively knows she is outranked by all the other women, so her strategy, honed by millions of years of evolution, is to drag the higher ranking members of the tribe down to her level.
Josie also shows that tallness, in and of itself, is not a positive attractiveness trait in women.
Anastasia, the hottest girl, is the most self-deprecating and diplomatic of the women. As the implied leader of the group, (in modern human tribes, the most beautiful woman is usually, though not always, the alpha female), she also has been honed by evolution to avoid ostracizing herself by arrogantly strutting her genetic advantages.
The women are most vicious when it’s their facial beauty under the harsh klieg lights. They’re a little more tactful and conciliatory when they’re judging each other’s asses or “overall look”. This proves my contention that for most men a woman’s facial beauty is more important than how closely her body conforms to ideal proportions. When a choice between the two has to be made, men will choose the facially beautiful woman with the slightly flawed body over the facially average woman with the rocking body for long term commitment. Short term flings and one night stands are a different matter, as men find the thrill of banging a hot bod worth the cost of being dragooned into kissing the lips of an unappetizing face. Women instinctively know this about men, and since women value long term commitments far more than short term hookups, they understandably are very reluctant to admit flaws in their faces.
The rationalization hamster is tuckered out. Never has the poor rodent had to spin spin so hard. Josie’s hamster alone could fuel the delusions of an army of single moms, fatties, and cougars. “I date doctors, physicians, and executives, I don’t date losers. They couldn’t afford me anyway.” If true, those doctors are wondering why the losers are banging all the hot chicks. “This is my strategy, to piss off the judges and always put myself in last place.” A winning strategy indeed.
I love the hostess. She is genuinely cruel toward Josie, the biggest loser (and likely highest IQ girl) of the group. Her scathingly cutting remarks gave me a boney. “They can’t afford you? Is that because you eat so much?” Ha haaw!
Sexual market ranking has real relevance in the world. Josie’s lower ranking will mean that she will be propositioned less by, and have less long-term access to, the kinds of high ranking men that Anastasia will enjoy with more regularity.
Studies have shown that after an initial, often violent battle, men are quicker to sort themselves into a hierarchy, while women tend to occupy a constantly shifting hierarchical landscape that encourages endless and repetitive jousting over one’s place in the rankings. This show seems to prove it. (Evolution would predict that since men are less reproductively valuable than women — sperm is cheap, eggs are expensive — they span a greater range of status slots than do women who bunch up more in a vast interchangeable bellcurvy middle with less gradation between the different status positions. Do note, though, that where men are less reproductively valuable, women are less civilizationally valuable. See: Charles Murray’s Human Accomplishment.) Watch closely how the men, who at the end of the show must sort themselves for the women’s edification, arrive at a ranking decision rather more quickly and less acrimoniously than did the women. In fact, because status battles between men can often result in bloodshed, (as opposed to psychological status battles among women which rarely endanger the women’s reproductive integrity), men have incentive to refrain from unnecessarily instigating their male competitors when little is on the line. (A man’s looks are less relevant to his sexual status than is his personality, dominance, and social acumen.) You’ll notice the biggest male of the group is also the most self-deprecating and effusive with his compliments to the other men. The other men, meanwhile, don’t go out of their way to endorse their own looks status and thereby risk a possible antagonistic showdown.
I’m sure short men who watched the end of the show are saying to themselves that this proves chicks dig the height. They do. My advice: focus on girls shorter than yourselves, there are plenty of them. And avoid nightclubs.
Josie totally tries to cockblock at the very end when the guys are mingling with the hotter girls. But she is shut out, reduced to orbiting the group like a buzzing bee. There’s a lesson here; cockblocks need allies. Drive the wedge first, then seduce the target.

Stupid iPhone and lacking embedded video. The vid sound like a train wreck in motion. Can’t wait to watch.
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lzozllzlzl!!!
heraclitus (not heraclittoris lolzlz) said that war is the fsather of us alll. lzozlzl
weell western civilizartion/philosophy begins with homer’s iliad and teh rage of achilles in the trojan wars lzozlzl
but was the trojan war over?
A BEAUTY CONTEST BETWEEN CHICKS–between goddesses–just like the show roissy examines zlozlzl!!!!
and then the fact that helen took off with paris the judge of teh contest, because venus promised paris helen if paris judges venus the most beuatiful zlozlzlzlzlzl. A WOMAN GODDESS BRIBED paris with the hottest women, tho then left her husband menalus and took off with paris which started the trojan war lzozlzl.
so as war is fathe father of us all, beuaty contests are the grandmother lzozlzl
western civilization began with eve tasting the apple and getting adam to taste her pussy lzozlzlzl and a beuaty contest between the goddesses contest and a bribe form a goddess and the adultery of helen lzozlzlzllzlzllzozlzozlz omg zlozllzlzlozlzl
this is why the fed funds the femoinist moevement as ben bernanke and jonah goldberg have studied history and have seen that women are the causes of war and debauchery and the fall and as they neocons profit vastly in teh decline and debauchery of civilizations wthye fund feminsms and theus the world being governed by gina tingles and beuaty cntests which expalins obama aso ur president lzozlzlzlll and george bush too when ya think about it zlozlz
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You can’t reason someone out of a position they didn’t reason themselves into. Therefore women will always believe that “tastes’ trump some notion of absolute beauty. Except for the women who possess it for whom the proof is in the pudding.
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“Russian women are, on average, the most beautiful women in the world.”
Not sure about that, lad. Would rate the Polish ones as higher. Not knocking our fair Russian friends though. The Eastern European ladies, in general, have one real advantage over their western counterparts:
They consume less food.
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This is brilliant and brutal.
I’d love to see this in reverse for men, just as a tool to show us how the female mind actually works when selecting men.
In this show, the women were forced to dance and devoured each other.
I propose that in the male version, the women again actually be the focus; that they be forced to show their hand when selecting men.
Someone should make that show.
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size, shape, color, and texture (it is important to not forget texture)
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What’s up with that asshole who keeps writing llzolz or whatever-the-fuck? It was funny for a bit; now it’s annoying.
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Hulu won’t stream it for people outside the US. Does anyone have an alternative link?
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What always baffles me is how women have opinions about their own and other womens’ attractiveness that, frankly, often doesn’t jibe with what men think.
I had a discussion with one woman about the whole .7 hip-waist ratio. I said it was about 75% of my attraction to a woman. She just wouldn’t buy it.
She pointed out the most attractive women she saw: All stick-like, with smaller breasts, and no ass. And very refined, regal-looking faces.
And then she said: You should be attracted to what makes a woman elegant and delicate and noble. Not sluttiness.
Note the “should”.
She never did agree with me about the most attractive women. She just said I was a weird male.
So I shocked her by asking 3 random men what they thought. They all agreed with me without my prompting.
She scoffed and said she was a woman, she knew what was attractive in a woman.
Interesting that she seemed unconcerned about what men actually thought was attractive in a woman; she thought she understood men better than they did.
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B. Check out letmewatchthis.com
Don’t know what episode it is though.
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@Blissex
I was devastated when I realized that they resented that and felt very uncomfortable and anxious with having love feelings for a male. I think this is because it ruined *their* game, which is to regard males as “buyers”.
This is one reason that they need to be utterly dominated.
Women, quite simply, aren’t sexually as attracted to males who do not dominate them.
For other males, they seem themselves as the gatekeepers. They’re very resentful of non-powerful males that they keep around, if those males get uppity.
Powerful males get excused everything.
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Could you give the name of the show? Can’t watch it from France.
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I have to disagree with the advice for shorter guys. As a shorter guy, it’s easier to talk to the taller chicks, because fewer guys have the balls to talk to them anyway, unless there are plenty of guys there that match the tall girl’s height. Short girls go after the tallest guys the hardest, probably cause they are too short to get noticed anyway.
Once your game is good enough it won’t matter much.
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“B.
What’s up with that asshole who keeps writing llzolz or whatever-the-fuck? It was funny for a bit; now it’s annoying.”
it’s spelled lzozlzlzlozlzozllz asscocker
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Holy shit, I recognize Josie. She was on that one episode of “Millionaire matchmaker”. Major bitch! She got kicked out because she tried to fit in with all the hot models and snatch herself a rich dude even though neither one of them invited her. Wow, talk about attention whore.
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Gorby,
A show in which women are judges probably wouldn’t work, because they lie about their true preferences. They’d probably pick the lovable loser geek guy, just like in the case of millions of romance movies. But after the show is over, they’d try to hook up with the true Alpha. Actions speak louder than words.
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Cap and others proclaiming Russian or eastern European women the most beautiful, I have to say that I agree that when they’re young this is true. Something happens to the vast majority of them when they hit about age 23 though…
Very few keep even reasonably good looks over 25. I know, I know, I’m fat, ugly, and female, but I’m a believer in objective beauty and an artist. I understand different guys like different things to a degree, but I do think that American men have mostly been successfully programmed to think that thinness is the same thing as beauty. It isn’t.
So if you get with an EE woman, you must make her eat vegetables whether she likes them or not. If she smokes and you don’t mind her smoking, make her use a cigarette holder of at least 7 cm. Keep her out of the sun. I repeat, keep her out of the sun.
If she’s Polish, she’ll usually keep the surroundings super clean, but too many Russian girls don’t know what a damned broom is for.
I think the diet, the smoking, the dirt, and the high heels all the time is what breaks a lot of them down before their time. I’m doing a kind of beauty rehab with a friend of mine who hit a wall at 22. She’s going to be hot again once we handle her hygeine.
I’m thinking of implying that a ghost who haunts her flat is Polish and wants her to clean the place.
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@ Kel
“A show in which women are judges probably wouldn’t work, because they lie about their true preferences. They’d probably pick the lovable loser geek guy, just like in the case of millions of romance movies. But after the show is over, they’d try to hook up with the true Alpha. Actions speak louder than words”
Hmmm..look at Sex and the City. The heroine goes after the alpha guy and I’m assuming most of the show’s female fans want him to end up with him although she did hook up with the ‘nice guy’ and the ‘bad boy’, the ‘older rich and powerful guy’ (and countless others!).
I’m trying to think of romance movies where the loser geek guy gets the girl and the only movie I can think off the top of my head is the one with Demi Moore and the million dollars and I suppose Woody Harrison could be considered the loser geek guy in that but he’s also her best friend/soulmate plus he’s good looking and an architect so not really a loser geek guy. And I’d imagine the movie business is more controlled by men (and the writers not Alpha) than women anyway.
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Did you notice that the women ranked the men according to there “alphaness” without realizing it! The black dude was clearly the most beta and the big dude was clearly the most alpha!
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Anyone know the season/episode number?
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Josie looks to be of Eastern European extraction to me. She looks like many Americanized EE women I know.
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I love weekend posts, so much more insightful. I can’t watch the vid because I too am on my phone, but I can’t wait!
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It’s misleading to presume females as ostracized for flaunting attractiveness.
If Reality Shows are the indicator, they’re rife with evidence of those who do exactly that, and yet retain complete status. Housewives of fill-in-the-blank, Paris Hilton, Audrina Patridge…Brody Jenner.
Reality itself proves it as well.
I had a friend with a bangin’ bod and perfect tits who’d grab said tits in the bar, shake them, and declare “Look at these – they’re perfect teehee!” And nobody ever gave her the downgrade.
That video is great; still, there will be no loss of status for the hottest bitches.
In the past, humility was indeed a cultural value.
No longer.
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@EastPole
I can’t get the clip either as I am out of the US. It is Season 2. The particular clip does not seem to be not up on You Tube but you can see other clips which give you a good idea of the girls. You may be able to download the shows (I cannot).
I can definitely see why the show has a particular appeal to the guys among you but nothing will ever shake my loyalty to Paradise Hotel as the best reality tv show on male-female attraction & small group interaction ever.
Anastasia definitely has the prettiest face & looks the least skanky. Although I have no personal axe to grind here, I would suspect that some of you guys who go for the curvier woman might actually prefer Josie’s figure.
[editor: euphemism in da houz! josie is not “curvy”. she’s a flabby pudgeball.]
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@ Nicole
Interesting you say that, there are a lot of Russian women who go to the same beauty salon as I do and the owner mentioned to me that they age a lot quicker and by the time they are 30, they are really ‘over the hill’ in comparison to other clients so are the biggest source of income for the salon.
Personally, I think Estonian and Polish women are better looking than Russian women but it’s sometimes hard to see properly with Russian women because of the fashion for bleached blonde hair, fake tan and fake nails seems a bit higher amongst them.
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i cant see the video
but i have seen other episodes
and of course you rock as usual
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Apatow movies for the geek getting the girl theme.
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This is part of the show: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=plMAGjKGbyg
I’ll try to find the rest of it… Roissy, please provide the season/epsode, so that international users can see the video!
[editor: season 2: episode 2]
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i think the rankings of the men and the women were affected by group think that won’t necessarily be present in as direct a fashion in real life (as opposed to how group think indirectly plays a role in heavily determining female preference).
for example, i don’t see the brunette white chick who was ranked #1 for facial beauty being ranked #4 overall without group think being a prominent factor. she didn’t have a bad body or obnoxious personality to justify such a drop. this made no sense, except if you put it in the context of group thinking directly & disproportionately skewing the results.
not to race bait, but i think partly this had to do with none of the judges or participants wanting to be seen as ‘racist,’ especially after it was interjected into the debate by the ugly jewish chick. specifically, the jewish chick challenged the rest on racial grounds at times, saying something about ‘obama’ and asking one of the girls, ‘are you just calling her exotic because she’s black?’ that charged the atmosphere of the ensuing group discussions on the show.
again, if you want to definitively see what guys of all races find attractive, see the top 25 female porn gallery searches on something like porneskimo, NOT WORKPLACE SAFE:
http://www.porneskimo.com/
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I love this blog…
As a female, these days, it is annoying to listen to groups of women talk. Too much on my ears.
Josie was too much to handle. I like the Russian girl and the rest of them. Davida is beautiful. I would have wanted to hear the men talk, not the women talk.
At least my fave things got some attention, like corsets and bustiers.
Anyways, instead of being realistic (on a reality show, such irony) most of the women could do numbers/reality and quit smashing on eachother. Whom was most attractive won out.
It was interesting to see how the “all blonde josie” did in the end.
Either way it encourages my proanaism.
However, this women need to quit competing for money and start earning it on their own like many of us do…Maybe they could contribute to society spending their own money instead of the hubby, BF, etc.
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Meh.
The geisha/housewife role is undervalued. It’s value for money moreso than any cubicle job. If done properly.
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This show was interesting.
I especially liked how the ugliest, Josie, tried the hardest to justify why she wasn’t ugly. The sad fact is that bitch knew she was ugly and fought the hardest to deny reality.
What I also find interesting is that when reality set in for Josie, she proceeded to put down the men who ranked her dead last as well. This is always the last refuge of an ugly women. She will always try to make a new hierarchy where she is the prettiest based on factors X, Y, and Z.
Side note:
I notice Roissy is still pushing the “looks don’t matter” for men meme.
I don’t think looks are the end-all-be-all for men like they are for women, but in “meat market” venues where guys tend to go look for women, looks are a significant factor simply because looks are what women are there to select for. I have actually overheard hot chicks at clubs say “I want to go home with a hot guy tonight.”
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Now you’re even quoting Murray. You’re reading all the right books.
Your application of many of these ideas to everday interaction is good. Keep it up. As I said before, it’s been quite helpful in my own life.
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Lily, sadly it’s the lifestyle. The Russian and other EE women who primed me on how to actually pull off a natural diet in this country, stay pretty longer and age extremely well. It’s just that they’re a minority.
When they do take care of themselves, between the good health and the style, they age into a very nice foxiness that is hard to match. When they’re young, most of this type is viewed as average, but when they get older is when this type stands out. Maybe it’s not most guys’ taste, but for those who are keepers, it’s nice to wake up next to a woman who’s juiced up on goji berries, whose skin feels like silk at sixty, and smells like oblipicha oil and shea butter.
I use Arab perfume, African ornaments, and Russian cosmetic recipes.
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josie is not “curvy”. she’s a flabby pudgeball
One man’s flabby pudgeball is another man’s curvy.
[editor: you wish. but reality is quite different. one man’s flabby pudgeball is more often than not a lot of other men’s flabby pudgeballs as well. or have you not been paying one iota of attention to anything written here?]
She is probably not even overweight on the BMI scale.
[she’s dangerously close to the upper threshold. and her total lack of tone isn’t helping.]
I’m actually not sure her waist hip ration is that different from Anastasia, who has narrower hips than Kate Moss. Do a poll (the difficulty of course is that now you have come out & said this, no one will dare to disagree)
[your desperate plea has already been answered in these posts:
http://roissy.wordpress.com/2009/02/22/fat-or-not-fat/
http://roissy.wordpress.com/2009/07/14/fat-or-not-fat-2/
do note that the voting was anonymous.]
Personally, I prefer a lower fighting weight as it means that I can move faster & navigate more easily through small gaps (very important for a girl on the move)
[mind the gap.]
But a lot of guys prefer their women zaftig,
[you misspelled “a vanishing few”. hth.]
though they may not always admit it where they fear social ridicule.
[this is a fembot trope. men don’t choose their boners based on what other men think.]
To give an example – I think Sophie Dahl looks a lot better now, but I know quite a few guys who much preferred her at her heavier weight or at least mid-way between her heavier weight & her current weight.
I appreciate that quite a few guys (possibly most) would consider Josie too fat in comparison to the other girls, maybe even when taken in isolation. I am just saying that this preference is not universal.
[it’s universal enough for government work.]
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fucking brilliant. another great read.
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If you are outside the US look up HotSpot Shield and use it. It fools Hulu; other anonymizers don’t, don’t know why.
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Sounds fun but, this video can be seen from USA only. So do you americans think you are somehow entitled and pedastielized or what? Oh yeah, right you do.
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“i don’t see the brunette white chick who was ranked #1 for facial beauty being ranked #4 overall without group think being a prominent factor.”
i agree i think most white guys being honest with themselves would have ranked #4 above #3. i think some cultural sensitivity was going on. the results would have been different if the guys got to choose which girls to actually bang.
but was it just me or did #4 look so much like a genuine hooker/stripper that she appeared a bit lacking in class by the final round?
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Man fuck Hulu.
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OK I tried it again and HotSpot Shield doesn’t fool Hulu.
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[ you wish. ]
I don’t really mind what the end result is, I was just curious as to other commenters’ views on BMI, yours are well known already
[editor: nice dodge, eelgirl, but my view on female BMI is completely in line with the views of the vast majority of men’s.]
& believe it or not although female I do not have a problem with them, imo they are shared by the majority of men.
[then why do you insist on arguing as if you do have a problem with them? rhetorical. of course, i know the answer to that already. fat women argue like you do because to do otherwise would tear their souls apart. slim women argue similarly because they want to hold onto the cherished romantic belief that should they decide to fatten up in the future their husbands and boyfriends will continue loving them.]
(although lazy, I did manage to previously read the above posts)
[the archives on your friend. i’ve helpfully included loads of links to scientific studies providing ample (heh) evidence for the worldwide sexual preference by men for women who fall within a fairly strict range of BMI and WHR.]
[mind the gap.]
Thank you, I will do my very best.
[do you think your best is good enough?]
[men don’t choose their boners based on what other men think]
I absolutely agree with this 100%. The boner never lies. No argument here.
[do you normally break the sound barrier when you backpedal?]
But my point is that men don’t always tell the truth about what gives them a boner, and what gives one man a boner may not do it for others (even though they may pretend it does).
[men are much more honest about their mate preferences than are women, i’ve noticed. even when they know they’ll risk the mockery of buddies. in fact, i’ve found just the opposite in reality than what you claim; fatty fuckers love announcing their odd tastes to anyone who’ll listen. and they’re usually losers. fancy that!]
It seems to me there is only one solution, may I plead for a Battle of the Bods boner test for the male commenters on this forum, to clarify this issue once & for all.
A man as ingenous as you should have no difficulty in overcoming any logistical difficulties here. Plus, it would be fun for us girls to view.
[if the men here had something to prove to you, i might consider it. perhaps i’ll put up a post first with a poll asking the male readers if they have something to prove to sdaedalus?]
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[or have you not been paying one iota of attention to anything written here]
Oh dear. Occasionally I do tend to get distracted. I will try to study harder.
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In fairness to Sdaedalus, while I wouldn’t be of the fattie-fancying school myself, two friends of mine profess to prefer women with a bit of surplus weight. They weren’t losers – but they may be statistical outliers.
But most men prefer women to be as slim as possible. There’s a reason why Playboy and every skin magazine you can think of (outside of the deviant’s corner) has slim, toned women.
When I was younger and more chivalrous, I liked to think that I wouldn’t mind if a girl put on weight. But the old truth-teller can’t be denied.
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In terms of physical beauty, I’d rank them
Anastasia
Gloria
Davida
Mona
Josie
If I had to pick someone to date, I’d go with Davida, given she comes across as sweet, modest, more adult, and less juvenile compared to the other four.
Josie is just insolence incarnate– an aggressive man personality in a flabby body. Bad combination! That’s definitely a paradigm case of female insecurity. Her attitude moves her from about a 3-4 to a 1-2.
So yeah, looks matter, though personality can move you up or down a few notches.
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The show was kind of boring, but I enjoyed your analysis. Josie is an idiot. If she was really a Playboy model it was many years and many pounds less ago. If she really does manage to date doctors and lawyers the best thing for her to do now is to do whatever she can to get one of them to marry her, preferably without a pre-nup. She should have a couple of kids in rapid succession and that should set her up nicely. She should not be trying to compete with women that are way out of her league.
I also hope the American man that the lovely Anastasia is planning on marrying has a lot of game. The fact that she is already attention whoring it up for bodybuilders is not a good sign. As they say, a sucker is born every minute.
As far as the pretty boy bodybuilders go I wonder if anyone of them makes over $30,000 a year. They might be fun for a little casual sex, but are probably not suitable for marriage.
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Another thing about that show – while Olivia Lee is a very attractive woman, her accent is something of a cock-crinkler.
Reckon an unpleasant voice can knock one point off a woman.
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Fat women argue like you do because to do otherwise would tear their souls apart. slim women argue similarly because they want to hold onto the cherished romantic belief that should they decide to fatten up in the future their husbands and boyfriends will continue loving them
Really, this is not the case here. I like being fairly thin & I like fairly thin men. I’m not sure I myself would continue being attracted to someone if they got fat (I’m just saying I’m not sure here, before you all call me shallow) so why on earth would I believe that someone would still be attracted to me in that situation? In fact, I’m 99.9% sure that they wouldn’t be.
Sometimes though, guys over here tend to tell slim women they should put on weight, that they find fatter women more attractive. I was actually trying to find out if it was a neg, or true, or whether or not the men fully appreciate the implications of a woman putting on weight (i.e. it may not necessarily go where they want it to). Sorry if I didn’t make this clear.
Then why do you insist on arguing as if you do have a problem with them?
I’m not sure what exactly I said that would lead you to believe I have a problem with men who prefer thin women? I actually prefer it. I was just asking (the operative word is “asking”, I am not qualified to say myself) whether or not some men might have a different view.
I did say at the beginning that I had no axe to grind, I really did mean this (on reflection, I appreciate that when people say this, it usually means the opposite, but not always).
do you normally break the sound barrier when you backpedal?
Yes. Most people don’t notice backpedalling if it’s done quickly enough & if something else is thrown in as a distraction.
I would normally say that I wasn’t backpedalling here (I wasn’t) but I suspect it would only make matters worse for me, I think it would be best to let sleeping dogs lie on this point.
[men are much more honest about their mate preferences than are women, i’ve noticed. even when they know they’ll risk the mockery of buddies. in fact, i’ve found just the opposite in reality than what you claim; fatty fuckers love announcing their odds tastes to anyone who’ll listen.
Okay, this is helpful. Thank you. Basically what you are saying is that there is no need for a boner test because men tell the truth to other men about what they find attractive. I don’t have any information which contradicts this, so I will take your word for it.
[if the men here had something to prove to you, i might consider it. perhaps i’ll put up a post first with a poll asking the male readers if they have something to prove to sdaedelus?
No, I really don’t think that sort of poll would be a good idea at all, the shame. I was just teasing. I certainly would not ask anyone to prove anything to me, this would be highly presumptuous.
If you say there is a direct connection between what men say to their friends gives them a boner, and what actually does so, I think I will just have to accept this in the absence of any contrary male opinion or conflicting empirical research.
Thanks for taking the trouble to reply, I really was curious.
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That fat blonde chick was SO annoying.
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Thing is, Cap, that preference is more about size differential and cultural demands than it is about a few pounds here or there. I can accept that most men on earth aren’t going to find obesity attractive, but outside the U.S. they don’t place such a heavy importance on thinness in a woman’s overall beauty.
Visible ribs and jutting hip joints just aren’t attractive any more than extreme obesity. A beautiful woman is supposed to look like she might have children someday, but just hasn’t yet. Nubile was more important than simply skinny. So the thinness was part of the teenagery package.
Youthful vigor and looking like a virgin who hasn’t had kids is attractive. Walking skeletons are not. Why Americans insist on projecting their fetish on others can only be explained as rabid conformism.
So it’s not that you like skinny women that’s the problem. It’s that you call women fat who aren’t actually fat for women. Your insecurities about your own lack of size or strength become womankind’s problem to solve by not assaulting your precious entitled eyes with reality, the same way women’s insecurities about their bodies become men’s problem. Funny thing is that so many American guys have been successfully programmed that we’re actually having an argument about whether or not a woman who is probably 110 lbs. soaking wet is curvy or pudgy.
Fuck’s sake.
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Its hilarious listening women put each other down. I’ve never heard such soul ripping barbs as the ones women use on each other; rejections and insults of men don’t even come close….
Fine entertainment indeed.
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Roissy’s preference for unusual and antiquated vocabulary helps me rationalize checking this blog regularly — I tell myself it’s helping me prepare for the GRE.
That said, he should learn the difference between “proves” and “might be evidence for.” This distinction matters a lot.
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“They might be fun for a little casual sex, but are probably not suitable for marriage.”
Who wants to get married?
Like the saying goes:
Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free?
“As far as the pretty boy bodybuilders go I wonder if anyone of them makes over $30,000 a year.”
The problem is that the pretty boy bodybuilders probably get laid more than the IT nerd who works all day and makes $85K/year, and that is what really counts.
What is the point of working like a dog if you are not getting pussy?
I have never understood why people focus on jobs so much. Most jobs won’t get you laid because most jobs are not high status. It doesn’t hurt to have a decent job, but if you want casual sex with young hotties, your job, other than providing you with money to spend, doesn’t help much.
You are better off spending time in the gym or practicing game in bars & clubs or getting cool hobbies than you are focusing on your beta job.
I have a decent beta job (CPA), but I hate it and it has never helped me in the dating market (note: I only hit on under 25-year-old chicks, so take that for what it is worth).
[editor: excellent comment. there is much truth here. most men are going to have more success with women focusing on improving their game, looks, and interests than they are working like a slave to climb the corporate ladder for a few extra bucks in a white collar job. unless your job is extraordinarily high status, or highly lucrative (top 5%), you are better off investing your time in other avenues of manly self improvement.]
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Woah, that Josie is a piece of work.
Check out this interview…
http://www.agendamag.com/aug09/josie-goldberg-interview.html
She essentially bullied her way into being a Playboy “cyber girl”, by saying that, “Jewish women are underrepresented in the soft core industry,” after being rejected four or five times.
Whichever beta she finally manages to capture will quickly wish for death.
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“So it’s not that you like skinny women that’s the problem. It’s that you call women fat who aren’t actually fat for women. Your insecurities about your own lack of size or strength become womankind’s problem to solve by not assaulting your precious entitled eyes with reality, the same way women’s insecurities about their bodies become men’s problem. Funny thing is that so many American guys have been successfully programmed that we’re actually having an argument about whether or not a woman who is probably 110 lbs. soaking wet is curvy or pudgy.
Fuck’s sake.”
The lady doth protest too much.
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Laura
Thanks for reminding us how much a typical female values a guy (re: ltr) for who he is as a person rather than how much cash he can spooge on her.
I know it is impossible but if a female were loaned a cock and male instincts for just a few days she would thereafter RUN to the nearest gym and treat her lard-flesh like deadly poison.
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Laura is funny. Yeah, I’m sure the body builders are worried that they aren’t seen as “marriage material.” Given a choice of being seen as marriage material or one night standable, I can promise you that a majority of men would chose the latter.
It makes me very happy that I’m not considered marriage material, but sad that I’m seen as not fuckable. Cad vs the dad is a no brainer for most men. Of course there are still a few white knights out there. Poor dumb bastards.
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Nicole,
I’m not an American myself, and I don’t have any insecurities about my size or strength (I’m a stocky peasant type). But as a Westerner, I see the following facts:
1. Women are fatter than they were thirty years ago. The brutal truth is that their calorific intake is much higher now than before.
2. That men prefer slim women with hourglass figures is not some cultural programming. Even among the blind from birth, there is a preference for slim women with the hourglass figure. Apart from Rubens, throughout history, slimness in women has been preferred.
3. Women who are fat tend to call themselves “curvy”. But it’s simple self deception.
4. The fact that there is an obesity epidemic in the West is skewing the courtship market. 5s become 7s and so on.
I enjoy your thoughtful posts, by the way, but I don’t agree with you in this case.
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Cinco Jotas
You’re right – that interview is pretty screwed up:
2. “I’m Josie Goldberg and I’m the next Anna Nicole Smith and I’d like to know who rejected me?” `
Who, in the name of God, would have such a demented aspiration?
Anna had her problems with weight too, of course.
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Nobody does. Nicole never seems to think it matters. Apparently she knows how men feel more than men do.
Nicole is fat. The men who fuck Nicole fuck fat women. Therefore men like fat women. Or something like that.
Talking to a pull-toy-barbie with Nicole on this subject.
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Could I just ask one more question?
Where does Christina Hendricks fit in on the curvy-fat thing?
Usually, statements that a girl is too thin are accompanied by eulogies to Christina.
[editor: those are just feminist suckup eunuchs talking.]
I think Christina has a stunning face but she seems to my eye to be on the zaftig side.
[she has a large frame, so she can get away with a higher BMI than would be attractive on most women, but she has to be careful. she’s right at the bleeding edge of lardassery. a few pounds more and her voluptuous sexiness will transmogrify in a blink into chunks o’ chubs. she would, in fact, look ideal if she lost 5 to 10 pounds, and that loss wan’t taken from her tits.]
Christina had an amazing waist in season 1 (possibly assisted to some extent by shapewear) but seemed to have lost it between seasons 1 and 2 (she slimmed down a bit at the very end of season 3).
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@sdaedalus,
The truth is: A lot of guys who don’t have a high sexual market value will tell you they find X-BMI women attractive.
Raise the man’s market value – and his standards will go up accordingly. Why? Because he always found the less pudgy, .7 appropriate BMi women more attractive.
It’s heart-breaking, but true. Women are less obsessive about this, but for men, it’s hard-and-fast.
In my past, I’ve been with women I just can’t get hard for; I want to, but it’s not possible. Nothing I did – nothing I could do – made me want to fuck her. Mentally, I did, physically, my body wasn’t into it.
I know 4 men in relationships with slightly larger (not even much larger) women, and their lack of interest in sleeping with their women puts a massive strain on the relationship. But they just don’t want to.
It’s not just obesity. Past a certain point, the sexual interest of males just drops off a cliff. It’s precipitous.
And it’s almost universal.
Feminists: They say that men should choose differently, we’re badly socialized by porn, etc. I counter: Porn is designed to service an inherent male tendency.
Men have no fear of what other men think of their “type”. It’s not a social status thing.
Women just have a hard time admitting this: Men are physically programmed to be attracted to certain female forms. Everything outside this is measured by how far it falls from the ideal. Fall too far, and no man will be interested.
It’s cruel, but it’s also true.
One of the reasons this seems more opaque or extreme a generalization to you is this:
1) You’re projecting. Women don’t operate on this level as extremely; other cues are also important for sexual attraction (psychosocial elements).
2) Men will rarely be honest about this with women. Why? Because it can be very insulting much of the time depending on the woman you talk to. But privately, almost all men will admit it.
3) Men who push on the boundaries of this ideal form for sexual attraction likely have lower sexual market value self-perceptions, and are ratcheting their chances down accordingly.
HOWEVER
Below a certain point, they won’t go and will likely choose celibacy.
We don’t control out sexual response, any more than women do. We can hate the way women respond to men (they dig jerks, to be trite); but it’s a fact. Denying it imperils our sex lives.
It’s much harder on women, because men can learn game. Women have to lose lots of weight (hence the extremes, anorexia), or just accept that fewer men will be attracted to them, and less physically intensely.
It’s hard, but biology is an unremitting master.
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Jayz, I know I’m ugly. I wasn’t born to be a whore. I don’t have the genes to be prized by pimps.
…but, I walk down the street, and people want to know me because I have a stunning smile and the level of presence that for some reason, inspires people to just come out of the blue and tell me how beautiful I am, despite my being objectively ugly and American unspeakably hideous.
I know what they see in me. I look like their good mom who is standing by their dad, their favorite aunt who they could tell when they had their first time and maybe their first real heartbreak, and like their favorite teacher, nurse, or whatever.
You know…the people who matter.
Every brothel is full of pretty, skinny girls…but not every guy is lucky enough to have a loving woman in his house. When you have that, people recognize even if they’re not strong enough to hold onto it.
So this isn’t jealousy talking. This is exasperation with men who, like girls do, complain about their not being enough feminine, beautiful women, while sniffing in behind trannies and harpies.
I’ll stop telling guys that women don’t bother having decent personalities because men don’t require it anymore, when I stop telling girls that men behave badly because they get rewarded more for being a jerk than being decent.
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I’m not a gold digger by any means, but the fact is when a woman is looking for someone to start a family with his income does matter. Obviously there are other, more important qualities to look for.
These men that are constantly ripping their shirts off to showcase their bodies are nice to look at, but that’s it. I personally don’t think most women would be interested in supporting one of them. Money is too hard to earn in this world to waste it on something as useless as a sexy man.
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This show is further proof that Russian women are, on average, the most beautiful women in the world.
Russian/EE women are no more inherently beautiful than other white women. Their femininity and looks are an artifact of a pre-bernakified reality. I’d bet that young American women circa 1945 were just as pretty back then.
Was WWII a great evil that birthed a great good?
Only if you consider today’s world being 50-100 million German and Slavic women short ‘a good thing.’
Anyhow, I thought this tardish WW2 casualty theory of Russian womens’ beauty was debunked here a long time ago.
[editor: has it been? the theory sounds plausible. and there are a lot of hottie russian, polish, and baltic chicks prancing around today (and all of them hailing from populations that saw huge reductions in their men during and after ww2).]
Two other comments:
– the big bitch in black teddy is straight-up fat white trash.
– The black chick shouldn’t be thrown in to this contest unless it’s an explicitly multiracial thing, witt women of a bunch of other races. I despise tokenism, aesthetically speaking. One face of a different color ruins the whole look, be it a female model lineup or a male military formation. I’d probably feel similar if it was a lineup of Somali women with a token white broad thrown in.
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Cap, so you base your personal preferences on statistics?
Sounds pretty American to me. You’ve been tied and tagged. Might wanna look elsewhere for what was prized in western cultures. Count how many ribs are visible on the Venus de Milo or just about any other non Michaelangelo (Gay) sculpture or painting, even the ones of very slim women who weren’t dying of the plague, and you’ll see my point.
This isn’t about obesity. It’s about what has always been considered the feminine ideal, which I hate to break to some of you, was not a skeleton.
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there is a distinct possibility that the black chick was over-rated by the two white guys because they were in the presence of a black guy and would not want to appear “racist”. the whites would be inclined to tiptoe around brash criticism of her and acquiesce to the ranking “suggestions” from their black peer.
[editor: i agree this is a possibility. the urge to appear non-racist is about the only psychological compulsion that would cause a white man to falsely rank a multiracial group of chicks. on second viewing, i’d move the black chick to 4th and the other girl up to 3rd. but it’s close. the black girl is attractive and she has a nice body. definitely not cape buffalo. more like sleek gazelle.]
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Jayz,
I just passed my CPA exam and graduated with my 150 credits and will be working as a CPA in a few months.
I guess its kinda a ‘beta’ job, but the pay isn’t bad.
I’m in my early twenties and I am very optimistic that the next ten years will be my very best. Build a little wealth and slay (and no commit) to a bunch of decent looking women looking for marriage and a man with a solid six figure income stream (which will happen in a few years).
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The video –
BTW, i thought that #3 was hotter than #1, but the difference was marginal. All very bangable.
Josie (#5) was so absurdly out of her league, and so obnoxious, that she should have been #73 on this 1-5 ranking.
Seriously, she’s a 6, on a field with at least 2 women at 8 or 9.
BTW, I’m being charitable.
What was she thinking?
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I want to make it clear that I’m not defending Josie. I find her attitude repellant…but then I find all their attitudes repellant.
I haven’t seen all of the episodes, but if there is just one who refuses to get involved with the cattiness, that would be cool.
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[…] This post was mentioned on Twitter by winnable, Ferdinand Bardamu. Ferdinand Bardamu said: The Sexual Market Stripped Naked « Citizen Renegade http://bit.ly/bRnfzt […]
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“Cap, so you base your personal preferences on statistics?”
Nicole, I said nothing of the kind, it would take a pretty deliberate misreading of what I have written to conclude that.
What I did was point out that scientific and archeological research shows that the hourglass figure is a pretty much universal ideal of female beauty and pulchritude. (See Cranach the Elder’s portraits of Venus – now high art, but soft-core medieval paintings).
A thing about Michelangelo’s paintings – he hardly painted any women at all. Poor man was something of a misogynist.
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Joise is fucking brutal. And her personality is doing her no favors.
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@Nicole
Might wanna look elsewhere for what was prized in western cultures. Count how many ribs are visible on the Venus de Milo or just about any other non Michaelangelo (Gay) sculpture or painting, even the ones of very slim women who weren’t dying of the plague, and you’ll see my point.
This isn’t about obesity. It’s about what has always been considered the feminine ideal, which I hate to break to some of you, was not a skeleton.
Nicole, you’re missing the point. This ideal of beauty isn’t gender-issued or socially constructed. It’s raw biology.
You’re projecting, just like feminists, because women don’t operate on the same attraction principles in the same proportion, and they just don’t get it.
WOMEN IN HISTORY
Greek statuary: proportions (for males, too). Roman statuary: For normal people, normal (the Romans were just like that); for deities, same as today. Classical Indian reliefs; Same.
FRENCH CANADA
The only real difference that pops up immediately to mind are French Canadian men 300 years ago choosing Les Filles du Roi when they got off the boats (prostitutes, single moms, criminals, etc. loaded up in Brest and dumped in Quebec: A Future For You, Marry Our Lonely Colonists).
They got off the boat and were often snatched up immediately. They had proofs of land, income, etc. The women judged from among then, and the marriages were sealed pretty quick.
When they got off the boat, the men picked the youngest and then the fatter ones first; but not the really fat ones.
Why?
Youth: Obvious.
Fatter: No technology. Winter was murderous. Fatness does help with winter, and the drag on the immune system by cold weather is less extreme with women who are healthily fatter and bigger (as opposed to just normal but fat).
The man who picked a thin, skinny wife just saw her die by February and then he was out of luck.
Also: Women died in childbirth all the time.
The women were expected to *work* and be a partner in the excruciating labour that was life. She wasn’t a wallflower or sexual partner alone: She was a Wife, and Wife meant: Food; Children; Housework; Home Management. This was a serious job, a category, for which women were the only suitable workers. There was no feminism, no social studies, nothing: it was Survival.
Faced with that, most men would choose the same way. Brute survival against tough odds takes precedence over casual sexual attraction.
HOWEVER
It was always noted that prostitutes – the women men went to for purely sexual favours, and most men did – were thin, well-looked-after, and very proportional: Wide hips, narrow thin waist. Men didn’t want to marry them. But they wanted to fuck them.
The rich still had hot wives, and would ignore less attractive women from the right families for the hot peasant girl for either marriage or on-the-side entertainment. If they married for money, they often banged out a few kids out of duty, but they always had attractive tail on the side.
When Canadian society settled down and had some leisure time and some wealth, the men all chose women by the same standards that we do today.
The artificial selection for Survive Devastating Winter was gone. As were the unnatural standards of the time.
Never mistake what a man will settle for for what a man wants.
There’s no condition in which the average man will not, in all cases, be more sexually turned on by the standard hot woman.
He may not choose to marry her or mate with her permanently (see 18th century New France), but he will be turned on by her nonetheless.
If he has options, he’s likely to follow them.
It’s programming. You’re confusing two drives:
1) Who I need to partner with for survival
2) Who i want to fuck
These are often the same, but not always.
Denying this is simply perverse. Ask a man.
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Cap, who is arguing against an hourglass figure? I was arguing against cultural anorexia driving people to call women fat for looking obviously female.
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@Nicole
Cap, who is arguing against an hourglass figure? I was arguing against cultural anorexia driving people to call women fat for looking obviously female.
It not that they’re called Fat, per se. They’re just Fatter (and hence less hot) than women who are, well, hotter.
I’d just say that a woman who looks, as you say, more “curvy” is, say, a 5 to a thinner, hotter woman’s 8.
I’m not saying she doesn’t look appropriately female. I’m just saying she’s just clearly, demonstrably less attractive.
This is the argument that less attractive women always use. it’s fruitless.
Just as I’m not Brad Pitt, I’d never pretend to think that I;m any higher on my scale because, well, my abs aren’t his, my jaw isn’t his, but don’t I cut the very figure of a Man?
Of course I do. I’m very “Male”, I can carry myself with the firm assertion that I’ve got nothing to be embarrassed about being the way I am, I might even be slightly above the average standard. But I’m not going to fool myself: if he’s a 9, then I’m not even a 7. I have to admit it.
Which I do.
Women really seem stuck on this idea that there are multiple competing standards for males’ attraction to women, and the motivation appears to be that hopefully they’ll score higher on one of them (thus making some men hot for them).
The naked truth that there’s really just one standard doesn’t seem to sink in. It’s projection based on what women want in men. And it’s denial of reality. And men being dishonest.
(and yes, we’re dishonest about this so as not to hurt the women we talk to).
But if you want the Dick Test – Gut Sexual Attraction, just line the women up and see how men react. You’ll get almost exactly the same response from them all.
Trust men on this. We know.
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Nicole,
Perhaps we are at cross purposes here.
In my country, the word “curvy” has ominous connotations. Most young women have tube-like figures, and refer to their figures as curvy. Hour-glass figures are rare here.
Extremely thin women sometimes are not at all attractive, since they have lost their femininity. Some of the thinner catwalk models do not appeal to men.
But far more western women have ruined their looks by obesity than excessive slimness.
One other thing – I believe that a middle aged wife and mother should not be held to the same standard. A husband should love and honour the mother of his children, and accept that her sylph-like figure is probably not coming back. That does not mean she should let herself go however.
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Ugh. I felt so embarrassed for Josie that it was actually a bit painful to watch parts of this show.
I think a big part of what makes her so unattractive is her lack of femininity. The way she she communicates — verbally and non-verbally– is very masculine. More than the other girls, her mannerisms are annoying and abrasive.
Regarding her body, I think subconsciously it’s her shape that is the problem — even more so than her weight. With her large breasts, she would benefit from a toned, rounder behind and smaller waist/lower back. If she worked on these areas, being a little bit bigger wouldn’t count as much against her. And she needs better support for her breasts!
I think men can be attracted to the “brick house” Amazon woman, but she must have the feminine hourglass shape. Women with broad shoulders and narrow hips have to work harder attaining this it seems.
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I watched the video…
FWIW, I’m a white guy, and I found the black woman the most attractive by far, pretty much instantly.
Also, as I recall, she seemed gracious and modest, never catty. FWIW …
I appreciate how this site is teaching me to see (and work with) things the way things ARE, not the way I’m TOLD they are, or WISH they were, or think they ‘should’ be …
[editor: yeah, i agree, the black chick did seem to have the nicest, even the most feminine, personality. modesty is very endearing on a woman.]
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ok look, it’s obvious that beauty is not entirely a social construct.
but it’s equally foolish to assert, as many here do, that NONE of the notion of female beauty is socially constructed.
like most claims that make up feminist cant, “beauty is a social construct” is a whole cumulus cloud of lies that has condensed around a tiny grain of actual truth.
specifically:
it’s obvious that, to first approximation, there is a universal standard of female beauty.
however, when i see people trying to parse the differences out to the first and second decimal places — “she’s a 9.5, she’s a 9.4” etc. — i know i’m seeing people for whom one of the following is true:
(1) they are nerds that live in their basements and nitpick everything to death as a proxy for living it;
(2) they share the same solipsism that they are so quick to point out in women, attributing the exact niceties of their own highly granular scale to other men;
or, ironically,
(3) they are highly social and spend all their time around people in, and from, a very narrowly defined social milieu.
basically, what i’m saying — and many posters here are really, really not going to like this — is that most of the differences from 8-10, and essentially ALL of the differences from 9-10, are socially constructed.
anyone who has actually seen, and met people from, different walks of life FIRSTHAND would know this.
especially for highly social (and socially aware) men, it’s hard to keep the notion of “preselection” from contaminating beauty ratings.
here’s a gedanken experiment:
let’s say you can have exactly one of the following as your mate of the moment, with whom you’ll be seen by your whole social circle as well as by surrounding strangers:
1) gisele bundchen;
2) a random woman who is the exact ideal of the type you like to fuck. (if you say this is gisele, you are almost certainly either lying or incredibly self-unaware.)
in this experiment, most men would pick gisele — even at the cost of the extra hardness of their hard-on.
in this experiment, ALL men with extensive upper- and upper-middle-class social circles would pick gisele, even if they’d rather be fucking the other woman.
why?
preselection.
they know, whether unconsciously or not, that a woman like gisele will up their status in male hierarchies — and also WITH OTHER WOMEN. it takes an uncanny level of self-awareness, a level most men simply don’t have, to tease this confounding variable out of one’s evaluation of beauty.
as further proof, i’ll note that the vast majority of women cited as “10” by people on this site are models. while some of this effect may be attributed to the fact that we’re forced to choose from women who are actually in the public eye, it’s disingenuous to dictate that there is at least SOME element of
“women’s evaluation of beauty –> preselection –> hierarchy boost –> men’s evaluation of beauty”
in men’s evaluations.
second:
think of all the men you know whose tastes in women are “freaky” or “unconventional”. (if you don’t know any such men, get out more. if you can’t stand to step outside swpl world, talk to an escort or pimp sometime about the wide variety of men’s lusts, and about the surprisingly unconventional “beauty” that high-powered men will pay good money for.)
generally, the more “freaky” the tastes, the more socially unaware or reclusive the man.
why?
because women’s evaluation of beauty –> preselection –> hierarchy boost –> men’s evaluation of beauty, that’s why.
for men outside these hierarchies, that shit stops mattering.
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There’s a problem with considering Anastasia the most diplomatic and deferential. While I agree she is the most attractive, I think the main reason she refrains from banter, catty comments, and “repartee” is her poor English. How do you separate that variable out when her command of English is obviously inferior to everyone else?
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Josie probably needs to lose about fifteen pounds to look okay. Even then she won’t be in the same league as the rest of those women. Josie should accept that she has absolutely no future in the modeling industry and find something else she is good at.
Nicole,
I see your point. Some of those women are really skinny. I think they must be pretty young and many young women are naturally very thin. They also probably work in the modeling industry where looks are a huge priority and if they knew they were going to be on that show they probably dieted beforehand. Anyway, they will not look like that after they have aged a little and had a few kids. Cap’n Bob understands that. The pool I go to has mostly mothers, a few in their late 20’s, the majority of them in their 30’s and 40’s and honestly most of them don’t look so hot. The ones that have managed to keep the weight off look better, but are certainly far from perfect. There are a significant number of them that have become obese unfortunately.
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The black woman did seem to have the nicest personality.
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Ladies, take note. It does not matter how hot you think you are. The momen you tell a guy that you think you are, he puts you on the bottom of the pile. Josie will catch a rich beta and find some classless alpha-esque poolboy to keep her legs spread.
Once her beta provider gets his nuts back, she will be on the barstool asking blue collar guys for a quarter.
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” most of the differences from 8-10, and essentially ALL of the differences from 9-10, are socially constructed.”
Johnny five – A lot of these discussions center around the faces of the 9s or 10s. Some prefer Hilary Swank, some prefer Anne Hathaway. Some prefer stronger faces, some the more feminine (there was an interesting post here yonks ago about how hollywood actresses are becoming more masculine in their faces. I for one would deplore such a trend).
And indeed, the ideas of female facial beauty does seem to be more variable over time. In the Renaissance, the high forehead was considered most desirable. So there is an element of social construct.
But when it comes to women’s bodies, fashions do not change so much. Goya’s the Naked Maja has a pretty similar figure to Anne Hathaway. The hourglass ideal seems to be pretty much hard-wired into humanity.
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Johnny Five-HOE is a genius. So true.
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Anne Hathaway is NOT an hourglass figure don’t let the Hollywood lights fool you. Most women in Hollywood are not hourglass, but are made to appear that way because of the ideal. Hourglass figures are the most rare amongst women.
[editor: anne is a great example of how a very pretty face will compensate for a so-so body.]
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Interesting to note from a Game point of view. If an 8 or 9 appears to have an unpleasant or dull personality, and you are aware of that, you can use that to prevent pedestalisation.
You could just tell yourself that she is dull, or uninteresting, and that would be all the inner game that you need.
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Cap, obesity is only a problem for those who can’t adapt to the new environmental and economic realities.
I’ve had to learn to butch up in many areas of my life…being born into a world where I wouldn’t have as much male involvement in my life as there should be, watching harpies and hoes get selected ahead of me, only to be apologized to by the guys many many years too late.
I had to leave the U.S. to find a guy who didn’t feel like he was slumming or settling, before he was completely used up by a harpy or a hoe.
You may have to leave the west altogether to find an abundance of slim women who don’t feel overly entitled.
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Kaikou,
Damn. That’s a pity.
Still, wouldn’t say no.
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Are you of Eastern European heritage, Roissy? I ask because of your assertion that Russian women are the most beautiful in the world. I don’t agree with that at all, and don’t know many guys who think so, with the exception of guys whose ancestors came from slavic lands. Typically, I find, guys tend to find women of their home lands most attractive.
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Nicole,
“I had to leave the U.S. ”
That’s a shame – you seem thoughful and intelligent in your posts, though I wouldn’t agree with you.
“You may have to leave the west altogether”
No need – thanks to good ol’ Game.
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No one country has a monopoly on beautiful women. I’ve seen beautiful women from all over the world and I see many in the United States. For some reason, some of the guys on this site like to stick it to American women.
[editor: ugly truth of the day: some countries have proportionately more beautiful women than other countries.
discuss.]
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[editor: has it been? the theory sounds plausible. and there are a lot of hottie russian, polish, and baltic chicks prancing around today (and all of them hailing from populations that saw huge reductions in their men during and after ww2).]
The WW2- casualties as cause for Russian beauty theory is indirectly debunked by pointing out the fact that there is no apparent spike in beauty of English and French women post WWI or German women post both world wars.
[editor: ok, true about the germans. they did lose a lot of men. but i don’t think england and france lost nearly the proportion of young men that russia and germany did. someone could correct me if i’m wrong about that.
are german girls hotter than ever? i dunno.
english girls are uglier than ever.
french girls are hot, yes.]
Also, anecdotally speaking, I don’t recall seeing many beautiful women in Poland and other Eastern Block countries I grew up in during the 70s. SUre, my paretns were friends with a couple where the wife was exceptionally hot, but she was an outlier.
[pa, as an “insider”, you may not be able to appreciate as clearly the beauty of your co-ethnic sisters. you may be more impressed by “exotic” american chicks. but nearly every american buddy i’ve talked to about this has agreed — the russian and polish chicks who come here to the US blow the american competition out of the water.]
Also, a look through my school photo album (early 70s Poland) shows tons of young female teachers and moms… and not one hottie in the bunch. Just normal 6-7 women, with an occasional face that’s prettier than average. I’ve seen lots of Russians visitng Poalnd during that period, and recall that these women were particularly ugly, in a stocky mannish sort of way.
Eastern European movies show virtually no hottie, either among lead actresses, nor extras. Sure, OK looking women, most being slim, but no beauty beyond what you see in today’s non-fat USA.
I’m not a quant so I can’t argue statistics, but my impression is that Eastern European female hotness spiked post-Commuism, in the early 90s. This was a convergence of their generally thin/fit condition and feminine pre-benrakification personalities.
You could argue, I suppose, that tehre are inherently beautiful qualities among EE women, but you could say the same thing about any other European group if you subtract its fat / vulgar/ feminist layer. Just look at Danish women. Or French pixies. Or Agnostic’s loving tender studies of Catalan girls. No WW2 casualties there.
[i should clarify. french girls are hot too. in fact, i’d put audrey tautou and marion cotillard in my top ten. i’m still not prepared to toss away the genetic explanation entirely, but if you’re right and post-war allele distributions have nothing to do with the current impression that russian girls are hotter on average than girls from other countries, then perhaps the cause of the beauty differential is simply something prosaic like the rampant obesity in western societies.]
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Somalia is supposed to have the most beautiful women on earth.
If you can get past the pirates, the burqas, and their RPG-toting families
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@[editor: those are just feminist suckup eunuchs talking.]
I think they are probably just guys who want to get laid, but I take your point. Thank you also for taking the time to give your opinion on Christina, I actually do find it useful. I was trying to decide whether or not to put on weight but I will probably leave it.
@Gorbachev
I know 4 men in relationships with slightly larger (not even much larger) women, and their lack of interest in sleeping with their women puts a massive strain on the relationship. But they just don’t want to.
It’s not just obesity. Past a certain point, the sexual interest of males just drops off a cliff. It’s precipitous.
I actually agree with you.
If you read my later comment, which went into moderation, you will see where I am coming from here. I am not disputing your view (which seems to be similar if not identical to Roissy’s), simply wondering why it differs from what I hear from men.
From what I have actually seen (as opposed to having been told), I think the point you mention can even be reached before the woman becomes overweight on the BMI scale (never mind obese), in fact sad to say even a few pounds can make a difference with some guys, it is very unfair, but such is life.
The difficulty is that a lot of men are not honest about this, they actively pretend that they like heavier women than they actually do. If they were honest about this from the start I really don’t think the women would be as inclined to put on weight.
I appreciate your point on men trying to be nice, but what I am talking about here is not men saying to women whom they are chatting up that they prefer women who are not so thin but actually telling women that they are too thin & should put on some weight (or should not have lost weight).
I have sometimes seen men in relationships encouraging their attractive wife or girlfriend to overeat, telling her she would look better if she was fatter. Sometimes women tend to fatten a man up in a relationship so that he can’t stray and I wonder whether this could be the same thing.
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Eastern European movies show virtually no hottie, either among lead actresses, nor extras.
Specifically, I meant EE movies from 1945 to 1990.
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How widespread is the whole “feeder”, or genuine fatty-fancier subculture.
Always sounded to me that it didn’t really exist outside of Jerry Springer
[editor: it’s not widespread. from what i’ve read, naafa mixers have a 3:1 female-male ratio, which is telling when you think about it for a minute, because a roomful of fat chicks converging specifically to meet fatty fucking men should attract enough of these men looking for an easy multiple-fold lay. but even there, where gross cheesy sex is just a hello away, they can’t convince enough freak fetishists to show up.]
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Yes, Somalia seems to have a lot of gorgeous women.
But so far, the Somalian women I’ve met didn’t score too high on personality/charm (to put it politely).
Same goes for Nigeria.
Sometimes it’s forgivable — or should I say tolerable …
However, I’ve met/known many women from Ethiopia (& Eritrea) who are very beautiful with very appealing personality, attitude, etc.
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Best post of the month. The smoothness & radiance of the skin, esp for Anastasia was a big plus for her. Ditto her feminine facial features. Most guys don’t obsess over perfect waist to hip ratios (within a reasonable range), but what is hugely attractive is having a flat stomach, and a curvy tush with little or no cellulite. One thing that has spooked me about women with whom I’ve been in LTRs is if their mom &/or close friends are fat, I anticipate they they too will morph into fatties. As per the male stuff, Roissy & Jayz are bang on…workaholism in avg status careers is not something women will be necessarily attracted to. Sure, it helps a bit if you are passionate about being good at what you do, but it helps way more if you lead an interesting, daring and exciting life outside of work. And if you have the gift of the gab, and poise.
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Good points PA. The only foreign country I’ve been to is France. Facially attractive women there were about in the same proportion as facially attractive women in the US. The difference was that I don’t recall seeing one obese woman and most of them were fashionably svelte. If american women could keep their weight under control they would be very competitive with women from other countries. American women from higher socio economic backgrounds do this. However, there is a preponderance of grossly overweight women in lower and even middle income areas (inner city & rural). Even where I live is a middle class suburb and there are quite a few obese women at my pool.
Also, it sometimes takes a lot of effort for even a young woman to look hot. Some women might be okay with just being reasonably attractive in a more natural way.
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Damn, i was watching the wrong episode. I was watching Season 2, Episode 5.
I like Olivia Lee, though, sexy attitude. In Episode 5 she said, to the girls in bikinis:
“Don’t be embarrassed about being in bikinis on TV. IT doesn’t compare to what I had to do to get this job.”
Brilliant!
Boy I can just imagine her on all fours.
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“editor: it’s not widespread. from what i’ve read, naafa mixers have a 3:1 female-male ratio”
Funny thing is, if a man genuinely had this particular “quirk” – he would have Mystery-levels of action. He could be the Alpha of Omegas.
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Josie went from being ‘meh’ (barely fuckable) to giving me a complete hard off when she opened her mouth.
Those types of women, if they weren’t so insecure, would be much more successful at attracting men if they had the right attitude.
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@Gorbachev..
“”What always baffles me is how women have opinions about their own and other womens’ attractiveness that, frankly, often doesn’t jibe with what men think.
I had a discussion with one woman about the whole .7 hip-waist ratio. I said it was about 75% of my attraction to a woman. She just wouldn’t buy it.””
Oh yah…
Just the other day I was pointing out some woman who I thought was particularly hot: shorter, but tanned skin, impecably dressed, heels, sexy dress.
I asked a local Chinese male friend of mine whether he knew her. He wasn’t sure so…like a herb asked his girlfriend whether she knew who I was referring to…and that’s where your comment above comes in.
Of course the guy’s girlfriend knew who I was referring to but made the point that the girl was too short, no body, bad teeth etc. Then added the patronizing comment: “Maybe westerners have a different concept of Chinese beauty?”
The girl I was referring to was about 27, the “assessor” in this case, was a beautician in her late 30’s.
I had to set my male friend straight…never EVER ask a woman…especially you live-in girlfriend whether she thinks another woman is hot.
Then of course this works in reverse. A guy can and should use this on women he’s gaming by saying: “I think XXX is quite elegant…” or “dresses well”…and just watch the reaction.
It goes towards the other truism on this blog: never ever take what a woman says seriously.
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Regarding the beauty of girls from different countries, that is clearly true. Unless you have a freak fetish, all of us reading this have been indoctrinated into a Western paradigm of beauty, so we all have the same overall taste in girls.
I am proud to be Hispanic, and believe that some of the hottest girls in the world are from Latin America. BUT, definitely not from my parent’s country, Peru. Peruvian girls are not that cute at all. I’ve been there, looking, and have not been impressed for the most part.
From what I can gather, Polish and Russian girls are indeed hot, as are those dark and sultry girls from Romania and Bulgaria. And girls from Spain — wow.
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If I were to argue women’s inherent beauty by ethnic group, I’d say Germanic/Scandinavian women are it. Among them you’ll find the best balance of facial structure that’s both strong and feminine, and in many cases their blue eyes against their heathy, creamy skin are downright magical.
I think men in Western countries, particularly Anglo-America, respond to Slavic women because the eastern / Asiatic hint in many Russian women’s faces is pleasing and exotic to them.
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PA
“Eastern European movies show virtually no hottie, either among lead actresses, nor extras.
Specifically, I meant EE movies from 1945 to 1990.”
Didn’t Joanna Pacula do some films in Poland before she emigrated?
She was unbelievable in Gorky Park
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Johnny Five has a point about extreme female beauty.
I can see a very hot girl and call her a 10, while another man can see her and call her a 9 based on personal preferences.
However, most men will rate on a rough scale of 1-10 pretty close the attractiveness of a woman, often within just one or two points (ethnic preferences aside).
Beauty for women is not just a social construct.
Yeah, it gets influenced by the society, but so what?
A lot of things get influenced by society.
What I am concerned about isn’t so much nitpicking whether a girl is a 9.3 or 9.2, since this is a bit childish, but over how to pick up hot women in general.
That is why when I talk about women I actually tend to group them, like 5/6 or 7/8 or 9/10.
The fact is that, whether it is a mix of biology & social conditioning, the higher the SMV a woman has, the harder she is to pick up due to having so many options.
Try picking up a real 9/10 and see how much harder that is than trying to pick up a 5/6.
Then come back and tell me that beauty is not an objective reality.
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Fuck that it’s just the american version of hot tub ranking.
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5/5 video! Bravo.
Love how the host alpha female totally lashes out at tub girl at the end. “Shut your pie hole! Had enough of you.” lol “You have a nice face… for radio!”
Notice all the “cute” girls end up around the “winner/tallest aka alpha!” While the betas try and address the cock block. I’m surprised though that the tallest guy didn’t step up into 1st place…
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you may not be able to appreciate as clearly the beauty of your co-ethnic sisters.
Could be, could be… though in some cases I do appreciate it. In that vein, I recall once around 1997 talking with my female cousin in Poland (a good looking girl) and said something about how Polish girls are great.
She looked at me with surprised confusion, and said “really? but we’re so plain and boring-looking, not like girls in America.”
[editor: i have a story about a heart meltingly pretty polish girl… a story of love lust and betrayal… but perhaps i will save that for the book.]
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ugly truth of the day: some countries have proportionately more beautiful women than other countries.
discuss.
Absolutely true. I wont talk about another ethnic groups, I am hispanic and I have lived in several latin-american countries and the difference in % of hottie girls between Colombia for example versus Peru or Mexico is staggering. Of course there are hot chicks in the those last countries but based in my personal observations and discussions with other guys the proportion could be 10X higher in the “blessed” countries. It is not just raw beauty per se (although of course is the most important aspect) but also traits like taking good care of themselves or femineity/niceness. These are not always correlated, so some countries can be “saved” somehow. FWIW here is my ranking of some latin countries in those 3 traits (Colombia tops the ranking, for disclosure I am not from there )
COUNTRY Proportion Hot Girls Fashion Sense Fem/Nice
Colombia ***** **** *****
Venezuela ***** ***** ****
Brazil **** **** *****
Uruguay **** *** *****
Argentina **** **** ***
Paraguay *** *** *****
Peru ** *** *****
Chile * * ****
Mexico * ** *****
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the show and the winner and all that are scripted everyone
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That’s endearing that the Polish girl thought she was too plain and boring looking. She was probably cute.
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@PA
A few points…
Great example of Polish beauty from the 50s and 60s: Ewa Krzyzewska. Nice collage from ‘Popiol i Diament’ below.
Albeit, I will concede she her popularity was probably on account of her likeness to Marylin Monroe.
Also… as far as the explosion of Eastern Euro hotness after the fall of the iron curtain – think of it this way. How would Western women look with next to no access to cosmetic products and latest fashions? Even subtle make-up goes a very long way when combined with natural beauty. Before 1990, the market for such goods in Poland and Russia was very constricted.
Polish women also have the advantage of a wider genetic scope than other European nations. Travel the country east west north to south and you will notice significant differences in features, skin and hair/eye tone. Having been raided from everyone from Genghis Khan to the Vikings and Nazis, the Polish gene pool has been a sponge of foreign sperm for centuries. The genetic diversity not only produces healthier offspring, but also contributes to what we consider more beautiful.
Some would argue the same about the Brazilians or Argentine, albeit the differences here are much more pronounced.
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digging black chicks is as freaky as digging fatties.
Its your dick, do what you please with it, but that shit ain’t standard.
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Paging Roosh, see KK’s post 7:06pm this thread….
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ditto about Olivia Lee, funny women are a turn on. And she’s hot too.
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My posted comment disappeared so forgive a double entry should it come back again.
@PA
Great example of early hot Polish actress: Ewa Krzyzewska, a nice collage from ‘Popiol i Diament’ pasted below.
Albeit, I admit her popularity was likely largely on account of a resemblance to Marylin Monroe.
Regarding the hotness explosion of Eastern Euro women since 1990? Think of it this way: how would western women look without access to high quality make-up. Even subtle applications go a great length to enhancing natural beauty, and before the fall of the iron curtain, the marketplace for such products was greatly restricted in Poland, Russia, etc.
Also – Poland has the advantage of having a pretty diverse genetic make-up, for the region. Travel the country north south east and west and you will find marked differences in skin tone, as well as hair and eye colour. The country has been raped and pillaged by everyone from Genghis Khan to the Vikings and nazis. A virtual sponge for the sperm of foreign invaders. This has enriched the genetic pool, provided for healthier offspring and added to our perception of what we find attractive. Same could be said for Argentine of Brazilians, albeit the differences are more apparent there.
Lastly, Bulgarian and Romanian women?? Are you kidding? Like buckwheat in a headlock. It’s probably where that GNP guy skirted off to…
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[editor: i have a story about a heart meltingly pretty polish girl… a story of love lust and betrayal… but perhaps i will save that for the book.]
Will that book be coming out this lifetime or the next? Sheesh!
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also in the “comments that will piss people here off” dept:
while i can understand the assigning of hard quantitative figures, or hard hierarchical orders, to women’s beauty in terms of communicative utility — e.g. useful for communicating the hotness of the target when spinning PUA yarns to a parliament of nerds — i also realize what this practice lays bare if used for anything beyond such communication.
specifically, any man who believes in a literal 0-10 hierarchy, as pertaining to women’s attractiveness TO MEN, doesn’t have much experience sexually, and also hasn’t ever had a ltr with a hot woman.
re sexual experience:
anyone who’s fucked much knows that variety is a salient feature of intense sexual attractiveness.
if i’ve spent the last three days fucking a pale lithe redhead, i’m going to start putting a bigger, harder bounty on thick black pussy. and vice versa.
so any of you fuckers who claim to have a single hottest “type” are, in all probability, actually non-fuckers.
re ltr:
in an ltr, a woman’s beauty regresses toward the mean. no long-term gf or wife stays “hot” unless YOU train her to compensate for that regression by being your personal custom fuck slave..
you guys would be shocked and ashamed at the sort of flotsam that will start looking better than your hot ltr girl, if you don’t break, train, feed, and water her properly. and if you let that happen, it’s YOUR fault. not hers.
take it away polymath!
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re ltr:
specifically that’s her beauty as perceived by you, her ltr man, in case that wasn’t clear.
for every hot girl there’s a man who is sick of looking at her.
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Agree with J5 that the difference between 9’s and 10’s is very subjective, though not about 8s vs 9s — 8s have identifiable areas of potential improvement.
Agree with Cap’N Bob that facial preferences vary more than body preferences.
0.7 WHR is very important but neglects the importance of breasts — big difference between firm round perky C’s and average B’s; and for a woman with a small waist and big hips or butt, D’s are a big improvement on C’s, making the difference between “wow!” and “OMFG!”
Agree with JZ and J5 that tenths of a point don’t matter, but occasionally I find half-points useful markers. Other people say 7-8 and I’ll say 7.5 but that doesn’t imply precision of 0.1 .
Don’t know why EE girls are the hottest, but they have been for at least 10-15 years.
SD and Nicole are right that the average “model” is thinner than the generic beauty standard — those girls have a body type such that they are the correct weight, but there are plenty of girls with body types which, for the same height, have an ideal weight 10-15 pounds higher.
Christina Hendricks is one — I agree with Roissy that she would be hottest if she lost 5-10, but that still puts her 15 heavier than “models” of the same height.
This is due to the influence of women and gay men in the fashion industry.
Racial differences are more important than most here realize, routinely worth a point or two. Most commenters here are slightly biased in a European direction relative to the world average man.
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“Don’t know why EE girls are the hottest, but they have been for at least 10-15 years.”
Polymath – reckon that trend will be continuing for a while yet.
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J5,
you guys would be shocked and ashamed at the sort of flotsam that will start looking better than your hot ltr girl, if you don’t break, train, feed, and water her properly. and if you let that happen, it’s YOUR fault. not hers.
Yup, variety gets you hard. My wife looks as good as I could possibly expect her to look, but my enthusiasm will always be enhanced if I have flirted with a hot chick recently. It works out well, because I can afford lots more flirtations when I am already getting laid twice a day, then the temptations are much easier to resist, and my increased enthusiasm gets my wife hornier too. There is no reason a woman in a LTR can’t be “trained” to be hot for you most of the time, if she was ever truly hot for you in the first place. (Although it is not that difficult, I took me many years before I learned this….)
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I saw this once on Fox Reality Channel at around 4:00 in the morning.
Some sorostitute got ranked last and went hysterical crying and yelling how she was so much hotter than the rest of the girls.
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@Polymath
SD and Nicole are right that the average “model” is thinner than the generic beauty standard — those girls have a body type such that they are the correct weight, but there are plenty of girls with body types which, for the same height, have an ideal weight 10-15 pounds higher
If you read my comments, I didn’t actually say this. I seem to be cursed with people misreading what I write tonight.
Just to clarify: I am a woman who, unfortunately (sorry, Tupac) does not happen to be attracted to other women.
Although quite frankly, it might be easier, the communication difficulties would be far less. As such I am *ahem* at a slight disadvantage when it come to working out what men find attractive. I was attempting to ask you guys for your opinion.
And I didn’t even mention models or their weight.
Although I would venture to say that any woman with any brains can work out that Playboy might be a better guide to men’s taste in women than Vogue. Not that many straight men buy Vogue, and even then, only for the fashion. I appreciate that a very rare outlier man may theoretically buy Playboy for the articles, but I suspect it is somewhat uncommon.
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“re sexual experience:
anyone who’s fucked much knows that variety is a salient feature of intense sexual attractiveness.
if i’ve spent the last three days fucking a pale lithe redhead, i’m going to start putting a bigger, harder bounty on thick black pussy. and vice versa.
so any of you fuckers who claim to have a single hottest “type” are, in all probability, actually non-fuckers.”
are you black, J5. i notice this attitude among black dudes a lot. i have a type -> petite white girls. most white dudes have types. you can get variety by dating different girls.
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PA and others are right. There should not have been a black woman in the competition nor should there have been a black male judge. Black men generally find black women more attractive and white men prefer white women. I personally have never received much attention from black men and yet I have received quite a lot of attention from white men in my life.
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The World Cup is more fun.
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cap n’ bob 2. That men prefer slim women with hourglass figures is not some cultural programming. Even among the blind from birth, there is a preference for slim women with the hourglass figure. Apart from Rubens, throughout history, slimness in women has been preferred.
*chic noir takes a bottle of bud from a passing waiter for cap*
chic to cap: here ya go bud.
Give us three example of a slim woman with an hourglass figure who you find very exciting. the women here are curious. We would like to picture what type of woman gets your blood boiling cap. We don’t care about the face in your examples. Just show us hot bods.
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If you think Russian (or Eastern European women more generally) are the most beautiful women in the world, you have never been to Mississippi. Not to mention California.
I’m very curious to know exactly which “[s]tudies have shown that after an initial, often violent battle, men are quicker to sort themselves into a hierarchy, while women tend to occupy a constantly shifting hierarchical landscape that encourages endless and repetitive jousting over one’s place in the rankings.”
Can you cite the research that shows this, please? Something besides Charles Murray would help your case.
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johnny five,
variety is a salient feature of intense sexual attractiveness….
you guys would be shocked and ashamed at the sort of flotsam that will start looking better than your hot ltr girl, if you don’t break, train, feed, and water her properly. and if you let that happen, it’s YOUR fault. not hers.
Yup, variety gets you hard. My wife looks as good as I could possibly expect her to look, but my enthusiasm will always be enhanced if I have flirted with a hot chick recently. It works out well, because I can afford lots more flirtations when I am already getting laid twice a day, then the temptations are much easier to resist, and my increased enthusiasm gets my wife hornier too.
There is no reason a woman in a LTR can’t be “trained” to be hot for you most of the time, if she was ever truly hot for you in the first place. Although it is not that difficult, it took many years before I learned this. The biggest trick is to keep sex in her mind throughout the day, with kino, verbal reminders, and quick timeouts (where you drag her out of view for a few seconds to give a quick pinch or bite or to slide a hand somewhere).
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Nicole Cap, who is arguing against an hourglass figure? I was arguing against cultural anorexia driving people to call women fat for looking obviously female.
Nicole, I think we woman here have it a bit confused. Most of the men here don’t want women who are as thin as runway models(Rose Cadero google) but they do want a woman who is on the slender side with a curvy body. The type of body that you can see from a block away and know that you’re looking at a woman.
R i’d put audrey tautou and marion cotillard in my top ten.
I knew it
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“It’s much harder on women, because men can learn game. Women have to lose lots of weight (hence the extremes, anorexia), or just accept that fewer men will be attracted to them, and less physically intensely.”
Not really. All women have to do is put the fork down and move a little more, and everyone’s happy. For some men to learn Game, they have to change almost everything about who they are, and even then some aren’t successful.
Many times men are expected be smart, funny, have more money than the woman, have just the right mix of aloof and friendliness and on and on. Worst of all, as seen in this video, many women prefer tall men. As far as I know, it’s much easier for a woman to lose a few pounds than it is for an adult male to grow several inches.
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“But most men prefer women to be as slim as possible”
You would be surprised as to how slim is possible. You will not get turned on by long distance runners.
The ideal women is 22%-25% fat. The problem is that fatter than 25% is far more common than skinnier than 22%
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A lot of female attractiveness is biological, but there’s also real variance based on cultural fashions. There’s also no question that even though sag and obesity are always turnoffs, skinny women can be less attractive than curvier women who are 10-20 pounds heavier but have their curves in the right places. Any man who says that biology necessarily compels him to be more attracted to the 5’6″ 115 woman than the 5’6″ 135 woman is either full of shit or hasn’t had much actual sex. Look at how older women try to desparately diet to make up for the loss of those nice round-but-firm curves they have in their 20s, and it doesn’t work.
Also no question that men — and our hard-ons — are affected by social fashions.
[editor: i’d say you’ve just discredited yourself, but then i remembered all the other assinine comments you left here over the years. the boner is an instinctual unconscious pussyometer that springs to life when the eyes feed information to the brain upon visual confirmation of a hot chick. it does not react in any way to “social fashions”.]
Men, like women, are concerned what their peers think, it’s a human thing. Guys, especially when they’re young, are hugely worried about being classed by their peers as a loser or winner. This is almost too obvious to point out, except for the BS that sometimes gets spun around here.
[the only bs getting spun here is your tepid left wing social constructivist equalism.]
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While walking down the corridor of my hospital the other day, I passed an ambulance stretcher being pushed down the hallway. The very ancient women on the stretcher just lay there looking up at the ceiling and was wailing continuously in a high pitched voice. Just one continuous wail, with the pitch neither rising nor falling. Not loud, either. You had to be close to the stretcher to really hear her.
I was puzzled. Was she just too weak to wail loudly or was wailing causing her too much pain to do it loudly. Was she going to die, wailing like that until they drugged her up (“sedated”) and instituted “comfort” measures only?
That experience puts some perspective on this very silly thread.
People, get a life before it’s too late.
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When I lived in Russia people would frequently ask me how old I was (early mid-twenties then) and say I looked much younger – not a comment I ever got at home.
Russian girls are very fresh looking and quite feminine, and Russian women invest heavily in their appearance. This does get them husbands and children, but doesn’t help them to keep their husbands. The divorce rate is very high. Men trade up when their wives age, and women move themselves and their children in with her parents. There’s a lot of residual damage to family relationships left over from 50 years of war, civil war, famine, Stalin’s purges, and the GULAG.
I taught English to elementary school children. Russian boys were just as cute as American boys, but I never found Russian men attractive. Alcohol, cigarettes, bad dentistry, the lad/thug culture – all giant turn offs.
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“I saw this once on Fox Reality Channel at around 4:00 in the morning.
Some sorostitute got ranked last and went hysterical crying and yelling how she was so much hotter than the rest of the girls.”
funny how the guys don’t react as badly. the guy who placed himself last in this vid was actually ranked the best looking by the girls. really, looks are great to have if you are a guy, but taking home the hottest girl is even better. nothing pisses other guys off more than to see an average looking guy walking off with a hot woman.
it is almost like you can see them thinking: fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck, why didn’t i try approaching that girl. she went home with that loser. damn.
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That may be why so many Russian women seem to want to find American husbands.
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@Gramps
Explain
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question to women reading this blog entry,
if beauty is a social construct, then why do women generally go hysterical when ranked the least attractive on shows like this.
why don’t they shrug it off like the guys who are ranked least attractive do.
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+9000 internets for sharing this gem 🙂
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@E – because women aren’t men. Do guys just walk away happily being called a loser? Um….no.
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E,
Honestly it wouldn’t bother me at all to be rank 5th most attractive in a group of 5 very attractive women. I’m older than those women and honestly this acceptance of myself for who I am has come over time. When I was younger I probably would have taken it much more personally. It is actually better for a woman to be realistic about her looks, she can make better decisions about men and what she can reasonably expect from them. Truth is by the time your my age it really doesn’t matter all that much how beautiful you once were. Not that plenty of women my age don’t look good, but it tends to be a result of a healthy lifestyle as much as natural beauty as you get older. Plenty of average looking women manage to get married and have families and live happy lives. I would imagine the aging process is actually harder on the real beauties, since they are so used to positive attention for their looks. It’s not easy for average looking women either.
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In the spirit of the original Roissy post, check out this chick: http://bossip.com/256040/debrahlee-lorenzana-on-breast-augmentation-it-was-the-best-thing-ever-i-want-to-be-tts-on-a-stick/
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Very predictable how the women quickly sorted out the men based on their respective heights.
In my experience, as one who has studied women’s height preferences for decades, the biggest Height Queens of all are extremely attractive short women. It’s as if they’re bound and determined for their offspring to NOT be short. I’m 5’8″ and have come to feel more confident of my chances at a 5’5″ or 5’6″ hottie than a 5’2″ woman of similar appearance.
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Pupu wants to pre-order Roissy’s book on Amazon today. It doesn’t matter if the book comes a year later.
[editor: you’re so cute. i want to squeeze your ascii cheeks. working on two books. first should be done in a matter of weeks.]
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Pupu stop encouraging him to work slower than he already is, the dude is at a snails pace at the moment. By the time I get the book in my hands I’ll be blinded by cataracts.
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Cap, these days in the U.S. being nice gets women the same thing it gets men: the privilege of being someone’s stepping stone or free therapist.
E, I don’t think any of the women posting here thinks beauty is a social construct…just that how people publically react to certain types of beauty depends greatly on their level of social dependence.
Beauty that is inconvenient or unprotected is exploited in secret. It is desired, but just not publically recognized. It may even be trashed and insulted…becoming the dumping ground of people’s frustration with their own inability to be free, or as an overcompensation for uncomfortable feelings.
I always find it funny when as often as I openly accept my ugliness, people still read me as attempting to pressure them to think I’m hot. What I’m saying goes completely over their heads in favor of what they perhaps wish I was saying.
Even ugly people usually have a little beauty about them. That little bit that shines though despite other defects, can be fightening for men who scaffold their sense of manhood with whether or not other guys publically want to shag whoever they’re with.
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HRL,
Interesting theory about height. You may be right, though genetics works in funny ways. I’m 6’2″, my wife is a foot shorter, and while our older son followed my growth pattern inch for inch and year for year, ending up 1/2 inch taller than me, our younger son is following the pattern of his uncle (my wife’s brother) and hasn’t yet hit 5 feet although he is almost 14. (The uncle ended up 5’9″, he was a late grower — but the point is sometimes no blending at all occurs.)
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Lol @ the Bossip.com link
While spending time at Bossip I found out that Matt Lauer dated/sexed a tranny who claims to be related to Whitney Houston.
The more you know.
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OK…I agreed with the men on the show.
As far as face – Anastasia’s face is pretty but a little too wide for my tastes – subtle disproportionality; I think they ranked 1-5 correctly. Definitely had the best ass though.
Josie = Courtney Love. Enough said.
Christina Hendricks on Firefly – thumbs up
Christina Hendricks on Mad Men – meh
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@sdaedalus
@Gorbachev
I know 4 men in relationships with slightly larger (not even much larger) women, and their lack of interest in sleeping with their women puts a massive strain on the relationship. But they just don’t want to.
It’s not just obesity. Past a certain point, the sexual interest of males just drops off a cliff. It’s precipitous.
I actually agree with you.
If you read my later comment, which went into moderation, you will see where I am coming from here. I am not disputing your view (which seems to be similar if not identical to Roissy’s), simply wondering why it differs from what I hear from men.
The difficulty is that a lot of men are not honest about this, they actively pretend that they like heavier women than they actually do. If they were honest about this from the start I really don’t think the women would be as inclined to put on weight.
You’re right. Many men are not honest about this.
A friend approached me last year. She is a great person; actually, she would be quite a catch for a guy of the right calibre. But she’s a little bit big. Not huge, but Asian-American, 5’9″, and without much of a figure left after too much desk job. Kind-of rolly-polly around the waist, but not devastating.
Otherwise, she’s pretty attractive (face, style, outlook, etc.).
She just can’t get laid. She just wants some man to fuck her occasionally. Sex. Not even a relationship, any more.
Seriously. Men show no or less than no sexual interest in her. She even takes an occasional man home. They make up all kinds of excuses, but the bottom line: They don’t get hard. She’s seen it so often, she thinks there’s a national Dick Crisis.
She asked me what was wrong. I like her. I have no wish to hurt her, but I thought: she does seem genuinely perplexed and hurt by the situation. I looked at her, asked her to forgive me for saying it, and I told her the truth. It was her physical figure. It wasn’t awful, just bad enough to make it unattractive. Turned her from a 7 (8 years ago) to a 4.
She was angry at me for about a week. Then she said, she asked some women, and the women said, oh, those men are just jerks; she asked some men, and men said, no, its not a problem. Then she clued in.
They were all lying to her.
She came back to me, said, “You were right. That’s what it is. Men are shit.” So I explained why it was – that it was biological programming. No choice in it. We don’t choose that kind of attraction. She later accepted this.
Now, she’s at peace with it; but still as unlucky with men.
She’s working hard to lose weight, though. And she has contempt for all of the people who, out of niceness, lied to her.
I have sometimes seen men in relationships encouraging their attractive wife or girlfriend to overeat, telling her she would look better if she was fatter. Sometimes women tend to fatten a man up in a relationship so that he can’t stray and I wonder whether this could be the same thing.
I’ve never heard of this. Might be true. I know my ex tried to fatten me up. She once said it was to keep the harpies at bay. Joking, of course. But half-serious.
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@walawala
@Gorbachev..
“”What always baffles me is how women have opinions about their own and other womens’ attractiveness that, frankly, often doesn’t jibe with what men think.
I had a discussion with one woman about the whole .7 hip-waist ratio. I said it was about 75% of my attraction to a woman. She just wouldn’t buy it.””
Oh yah…
…
Of course the guy’s girlfriend knew who I was referring to but made the point that the girl was too short, no body, bad teeth etc. Then added the patronizing comment: “Maybe westerners have a different concept of Chinese beauty?”
The girl I was referring to was about 27, the “assessor” in this case, was a beautician in her late 30′s.
I have no idea how Chinese women are able to do this, but I’ve seen this, too. They have very strong opinions about what constitutes attractiveness in other Chinese women. Or Asian women.
By and large, the men always agreed with me. But Chinese women have an almost Imperial attitude about this – they write me off as a foreigner (so I don’t know Asian beauty) or Chinese men as stupid Chinese men.
I got a few to admit they thought beauty wasn’t related to sexual attractiveness. And this is the point:
The Chinese women with these strong opinions weren’t measuring *sexual* attractiveness for males. They were measuring the Aesthetic Beauty according to generalized Female Ranking criteria.
Once you accept this, you can posit that the two are not in fact related. I’ve discussed this with Chinese men, and they wholeheartedly agreed with me. Chinese women rank among themselves, but men fuck based on their own standards.
Then of course this works in reverse. A guy can and should use this on women he’s gaming by saying: “I think XXX is quite elegant…” or “dresses well”…and just watch the reaction.
This is brilliant. Absolutely. I’m going to use this.
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I just want to drag over from another thread an apology to Poly for my comment to his
Where I said something like, ya, women are like that, get over it.
I was wrong. The self-tardation of female reality haters can be painfully irritating and a major turn off. Thank god, no, they are not all like that to the same degree .
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Interesting theory about height. You may be right, though genetics works in funny ways. I’m 6’2″, my wife is a foot shorter
aaaaand now the motivation to critique me is revealed. that statement is straight from my brother-in-law’s surrogate ego, feeling demeaned by the revelation of the fate of his success.
appropriately, my 6’3 solid-state physicist brother-in-law does not officially, cognizantly recognize human biodiversity, save for sports (because… he has EYES, after all). though a scientist, he insists upon leaning on the undefinable variable of ‘systemic racism’ to explain racial disproportions in achievement.
polymath, you are a tired, learned old man. you are no Feynman; you are no Philistine. your publishable advice will never beg citation online. it is reliable like the failed search engines of internets past.
you have never had a bad weekend of pickup. you have never sincerely ‘fallen on a grenade’ while your lesser peer gets laid, and tried again afterward. you have never been insulted by a worthless slam-pig against optimal logistics, and you have never refined your tactics so as to conquer any previously unattainable affection.
for the sake of this commentariat, allow me to summarize your own version of Game:
“Inherit superlative intelligence, plus a spiffy height. Since extroversion belies natural status, just do your thing if you’re like me. The world’s best-kept 49-yr-old ‘nine out of ten’ secret can be your happy wife too! … after you learn Game, of course”
while i am dumping on you, i would like to address your answer to “Fermi’s ‘Paradox'”, to which you insisted there were no refutations to the laws of physics, meaning no inter-space travel beyond the speed of light could be contemplated.
that is the same boring answer that i hear from my family. i expect it from them because it is the foundation of their sophisticated (non-‘bohemian’) lifestyle. personally, regardless of the slim chance of time-space foldovers of sci-fi lore, i firmly believe in an eloi-morlock future. development will be stymied by survival instincts; science will not grow. sophisticated brains are too altruistic to practice eugenics.
funny that you trumpeted the truthfulness of ‘math’ over ‘physics’ as a subject, though.
i don’t like you.
how much do you squat?
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On the Sexual Marketplace
Some will recognize this story from my recent comments, trying to romance a woman (PCG) who without game would be way, way out of my league. Read Why Game Will Still Be Relevant thread. This story shows how truly vital game is.
Background note: Some interesting game used on Wednesday at PCG’s apt. I’ll post that in a proceeding post.
Background
For those who haven’t read my comments, PCG is a ridiculously attractive woman I’m romancing. My own physical attractiveness is average: 6 or 6.5 (GFs who like me say 6.5. Others who only like fucking me say 6). PCG is a solid 8.5, and a 9 in a summer dress, without debate. All heads turn when she walks into a room. Men gravitate to her like flies to an electric light. Look up early pictures of Sarah Shahi for a hotness comparison. She’s 27, I’m just less than a decade older than her.
My ex-wife, just younger than me, left me 5 years ago. It wasn’t acrimonious, but she left for the classic reason: No more Gynatingles. I had no game. She was bored. She went through a brief series of Bad Boys, all of whom tooled her and left; a cock carousel. As she said to one friend, she found herself and her freedom. She was attractive when I met her, but has not aged as well as she might have. She’s a very genial 6 right now. She’s been single for some time.
I learned about game after she left. It was agony. Her leaving was much of the reason.
My ex and I are always very civil to each other.
This Evening:
PCG and I went to a social function. It was packed with people, maybe 100-200. A lot of people I knew were there, including a couple of work associates and a horde of friends.
Needless to say, when I walked in with PCG, I had huge amounts of attention. I noticed some very interesting things.
1) It was the *women* who were glancing over the most. And they didn’t look much at PCG. They were glancing at me. Walking in with PCG gave me massive Pre-Selection.
2) Men were more deferential to me. Most didn’t ask “Where did you find this woman?” One said, “Your girlfriend is something else.” But all of the men treated me with just a bit more friendliness than usual.
3) Over the course of the night, several women came by to chat with me, though PCG and I were rarely separated (it wasn’t that kind of function; we stuck together). These women were a mixed group, but I got the distinct impression that my being with easily the hottest woman in the room – and most elegant, as an elderly stateswoman complimented – had something to do with it.
Interesting Meeting
My ex wife was there. I didn’t know this would be the case, but suspected it might happen; I didn’t mention a word to PCG prior. My tack: It’s irrelevant to her and I.
My ex and I speak when we meet, and are civil and even friendly. We usually go over and at least say hello.
She spent almost the entire evening avoiding me. However, I noticed her looking over on many occasions. I know women, and her; not coming over was conspicuous.
She’s seen me over the years with other women on occasion. She’s made comments about my immaturity for dating younger women (because I should, according to her logic, be dating someone my own age – not a younger woman). She’s seen me with at least 2 other women, both more attractive than she is, but not in the past year.
Through brownian motion, we eventually bumped into each other. She was there with a friend that I recognized, a woman she’s known for years and who has always thought I was a great guy. We chatted amiably, but skirted the elephant in the room. When PCG rejoined us, I introduced her and we all talked for a minute or so. I feigned a bit of casual discomfort, a bit of modesty, and we begged away. I didn’t introduce her to PCG as my ex-wife; PCG guessed a prior relationship, but never asked. I just said, “That was a little weird”, and smiled/half-grimaced.
Result
Later that evening, a slightly drunk mutual friend came up to me and said, “You should hear what (ex wife) said.” She didn’t say what it was. But I caught my ex looking at me for the rest of the time I was there.
My ex appeared slightly discombobulated and uneasy; in our brief chat, she made unusually snarky remarks about other subjects, and seemed a little more solicitous – despite herself.
It occurred to me that if I’d wanted to game my ex wife, I had just dropped a nuclear bomb on her. It would be almost absurdly easy now. Of course, I have no interest.
I would never have deliberately used PCG for this purpose. I actually respect her. But that said, it was the sweetest fucking moment with my ex since…
Ever.
The Sexual Marketplace
Men’s dating value, especially with game, goes up, to a point, as we advance beyond 30. Womens’ drops precipitously.
The woman you’re with has a huge impact on your perceived value.
A sweet moment. The bitterness in me rejoiced in a small, pathetic bit of vengeance. Perhaps I can do away with it some day.
In the meantime, I went home with my absolutely wonderful paramour. The best revenge may be living well, but I’ll add: The best revenge is living well, … conspicuously.
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i don’t like you.
to be fair, i don’t like my dad either. mt. rushmore is not a popular spot.
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PCG: Update on Wednesday Night
Wed night, I went over to PCG’s place. I haven’t been there that many times, but this time she was making dinner for me.
I’ve gotten into the habit of using strong game with her. I felt bad about it this time; but I had a plan.
Her food was great. I made some casual comments, though, and didn’t compliment it highly. It was polite but not entirely approving, “this X doesn’t really normally go with that Y”. She seemed slightly disappointed at some comments.
When she went into the kitchen when we were done, at one point, I followed her and got close; I moved up against her, looked at her and said, that was one of the best dinners anyone has ever made for me. I pushed her up against the wall; kissed her passionately, withdrew, put my forehead against hers, and left the kitchen with a smile and a nod of thanks.
Strategy: When she asked me for praise, I didn’t give it up easily; but later, I thanked her and praised her food – but on my terms, and more spectacularly and deeply. Shock and awe. Push and pull.
We discussed some political topics; it got a little heated (I tried to defend some libertarian views); she disagreed with me, and I forced the issue and called her out on a few inconsistencies. She seemed miffed that I’d ruffled her feathers and surprised at my views; hers are not dogmatically but are somewhat idealistically left-of-center. (Mine are Libertarian / non-conformist). I didn’t apologize for it, nor did I moderate my position (as she hadn’t really argued it well). She seemed a little taken aback by my refusal to acknowledge her position.
Then I moved on her and we had hard sex for a while.
After we had sex, I agreed that she might be right about some points, but pointed out that some of her positions were philosophically inconsistent with each other. But that there might be merit in it.
Again: I agreed with her on my terms, not hers. I want her to seek approval, in general, not for me to have to seek concordance or agreement or approval all the time.
This is my strategy: Answer everything with sex, and modify the sexual approach by what level of disturbance we had.
She told me on Thursday morning that she had never, ever, in her life had a connection with a man the way she did with me.
Of course, the same is happening in reverse, too. Hard to keep it all straight in my head.
In the morning, I left in a rush.
Texts that morning, inspired in theme by Roissy:
Me: Delicious.
Her: You like my food.
Me: And your food is good too.
Afternoon:
Her: You’re bad for me.
Her: I miss you.
Me: I know.
Her: You know which one?
Me: Both
Friday: I want to invite her to a social event.
Me: (event) Saturday. I’ll pick you up at 7:00.
(assuming her attendance)
Her: Special (event)? People?
Me: Green summer dress=prize.
Her: For me or I’m the prize?
Me: Both.
Saturday:
Event as given in a previous post.
Conversation later: She tells me she’s told the want-to-be lover (I assume he was, for a bit) that has been hanging around her for a couple of months that they’re not going to be together. I show no interest in who he is or what he does, I just nod and acknowledge.
Then we have sex; answer every emotional situation with sex, changed up and different when possible.
When she asks me if I’m okay (i.e., do I have any complications), I know this: She won’t tolerate me being non-monogamous, even at this point. That’s a non-starter here. For her, it’s an ethical thing: You don’t, ever, sleep with more than one person at a time. She has no respect for men or (especially) women who do this. This is a root ethical issue for her. We’ve discussed it in several contexts already.
I say: there was an issue. It was unfortunate (“I gave up someone for you: we’re bonding”), but don’t worry: “I’m with you now. It shouldn’t be an issue.”
Not that it won’t; that it shouldn’t. Meaning: might be complicated, might not. But I’m with you. Keeps her slightly off-balance, says I’m not screwing around on her as of now.
She’s so turned on, I’ve now realized: Game is not some of the success. It’s all of it. It goes straight to a woman’s sexual control center and if you parlay it right, it’s powerful.
I later learn the other guy is both 1) quite rich and 2) handsome. Probably also well-connected.
WTF am I doing: I’m on the very fucking edge of the usefulness of game. The very razor-sharp edge.
From this point on, she’s mine to lose. I’ve established myself with her and I don’t need to be as dominating all the time, just at pivot moments. I don’t want to lose this one, so it means:
Game game game. Carefully, though, I’m taking some advice from different people (several here) and not playing the jerk too much; just occasionally and mildly enough to assert myself, at moments when there’s an emotional pivot point or a re-establishment moment. But Ive decided to be the (aloof) nice guy much of the rest of the time.
Resolving the complexities was … something of a game challenge, too.
One might have gone somewhat badly.
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@R. Stanton Scott
If you think Russian (or Eastern European women more generally) are the most beautiful women in the world, you have never been to Mississippi. Not to mention California.
Dude,
I went to the University of Alabama in Tuscaloosa, about 60 miles from Mississippi. We used to go to Mississippi for Rugby games. While women in Alabama or its environs are often pretty by US standards, they are nowhere near the level of beauty commonly seen in the FSU. Everytime I returned from a trip to Kiev when I was still living in the US, all I could think of was where are the pretty women? You were overwhelmed by them in Kiev but had to turn over rocks to find them in the US. Europe is somewhere in between the two. The big problem in the US is too many really fat young women. Ten extra pounds can be sexy and tolerable. Fifty extra pounds is a land barge.
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@PA:
As far as the war losses theory of beauty is concerned it would also apply to German women if true. Germany lost about 40% of its breeding age male population in WWII, similar to the Soviet Union. I think Slavonic women just have good genes and there is greater competition for them to be beautiful today, as good men for marriage are hard to come by there.
I still think Ukrainian women are prettiest and have that reputation within Russia too, but most of us in the West lump them all in together. Polish women are also quite pretty, but no major loss of manpower there on the level of Germany or the Soviet Union occurred. The same is true of Czech Republic, Slovakia, and Yugoslavia, yet exceptionally pretty women can be found there too in large numbers. Much of what we are saying is superior beauty is better health care, less stressful lives, better living conditions, clothes, etc. However, it still boils down to genes. Ukrainian peasant girls in WWII were still pretty back then too.
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@Eastpole:
if you look at who has partitioned or invaded Poland over the past 2000 years, the vast majority come from Ostrogothic or Visigothic stock originally- Swedes, Prussians, Russians, Franks, even the French, all originate from these two groups. The same is true of Germany. The idea that all these invading groups wandering through were ethnically different is flat out wrong with a few exceptions like the Mongols, who didn’t get that far into Poland. It was a myth created to attempt to refute Nazi ideology on Germanic purity and I first heard it from my ex-father in law who came from Breslau in Silesia.
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Just had to pass this along.
Wife tries to have husband killed during divorce proceedings. Convicted of soliciting murder. She gets to serve 13 MONTHS in jail. Comes out, and gets 1/2 the marital property in divorce court.
http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2010/06/14/us/AP-US-California-Deadly-Divorces.html?_r=1&hp
All the usual actors. Beta husband (a cop), wild wife (dirt bikes, drugs), and biker guys solicited for the hit. And, some young children. I wonder if the cop has thought of paternity testing.
Anybody interested in getting married?
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Cannon,
You don’t read very well.
Despite my natural endowments, I failed with more than 20 girls between ages 14 and 19. If I had known game I would have done much, much better. I got dumped, LJBF’d, failed shit tests, missed clear IOIs from girls I thought were out of my league, got rejected in favor of “bad boys” for being too nice, chose bad locations for dates, creeped girls out by pursuing them too hard, rejected good advice from wingmen, chose unsuitably flighty or bitchy girls, ruined excellent opportunities with clumsy approaches, mishandled ASDs, and on and on.
I lucked out in snagging a good wife while still in college, but as I have written, the only alpha qualities I possessed at the time were being tall and being emotionally stable, which got me interest from a girl who was unusually determined to avoid jerks. I was a skinny geek who could not dance, dressed with no style, and didn’t know how to recognize signs of interest or disinterest.
All of this is appropriate fodder for this blog — I can see now exactly where I went wrong and what principles of game applied. Within my marriage, LTR game has made a huge difference in the last few years, changing my sex life from barely existent to tremendous.
The fact that I am now socially accomplished, attractive, and interesting to women is the result of many years of slow improvement and figuring out for myself things which I would have learned much much faster if I had known all the things Roissy writes about.
You also misunderstood my answer to your question on the Fermi paradox. I did not “insist” that there were no refutations to the laws of physics and that faster-than-light travel could not be contemplated. What I said was that if you were troubled by this “paradox”, it was not really paradoxical if you accepted those laws of physics. I know that the current logical state of theoretical physics is highly unsatisfactory, and that FTL is not disproven in any sense of “disprove” I would accept — but it’s still true that assuming no FTL gives a sensible answer to Fermi’s question. If FTL is achievable by advanced civilizations, then the absence of observable aliens must be explained in other ways, and I suggested some of these other ways too, so I was not insisting on the current “laws” being undeniable.
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@Tyrone: I lived in Germany for 16 years (aged 24-40, military service) and married a Czech woman. I saw and fucked lots of attractive Russian, Polish, and Czech women (“There is Something About a Soldier,” as they used to say), but neither the proportion of hot women nor the level of hotness exceeded what I experienced growing up and going to college in Arkansas, Mississippi, Georgia, and Virginia.
Indeed, the relative hotness of EE women takes a big hit because the seem to have missed the concept of the “dentist.” Nothing worse that a woman with rotting teeth, however perfect her breasts or WHR.
Roissy: still waiting for the cites of the research you claim exists. Does your failure to give references to anything but Charles Murray mean you simply made this up?
[editor: no, it means DYODW.]
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E,
Some sorostitute got ranked last and went hysterical crying and yelling how she was so much hotter than the rest of the girls.”
I don’t know whether your misspelling of “prostitute” was intended, but it’s brilliant. I expect GBFM to appropriate it to describe the tools of the fiat bankers.
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This was a fucking dumb show. None of the girls were even hot. They were also at least 25. I don’t give a fuck about ugly girls and old girls. I wouldn’t give any of these girls a second look if I saw them in public.
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i couldn’t watch it because hulu is verboten in canada…but olivia lee is friggin hilarious!
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Say Plymath, is Obama also a Sorostitute?
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“development will be stymied by survival instincts; science will not grow. sophisticated brains are too altruistic to practice eugenics.”
For argument’s sake, let’s say you’re right about the last part and mean IQ keeps declining.
We still have accelerating advancement of technology that works in our favor – cheaper, faster computing, genomics, etc. We’ll be able to do more, faster with less human brainpower.
Besides, disease, war and natural disasters could change the equation unpredictably.
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Gorbachev,
Having read your recent posts on your romantic success with game and your resulting revenge on your aging ex, I must say: If you didn’t exist, we (men) would need to invent you! Thanks for sharing your great stories!
There is a beta of the month contest. Perhaps there should be a former beta of the month contest.
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It’s more exciting than watching soccer
No, it isn’t
Cap and others proclaiming Russian or eastern European women the most beautiful, I have to say that I agree that when they’re young this is true. Something happens to the vast majority of them when they hit about age 23 though…
Nice that Nicole made the disclaimer ” I am fat, ugly, bla bla bla”. I think that Dostoievsky was the first to comment about how Russian women age fastly. He then proceeded, in the same book, to write that “the most beautiful women in the world are English women”. So you can take the Great Master’s opinions on women with caution.
wrt to WW2 leading to EE female beauty, there are several points to make. There are three lines of argument:
– PA’s: France and England lost almost 2 million men each in WW1, and almost no women. A much more populous Russia lost much more, but she also lost millions of women. The male/female balance suffered more in Russia, but not MUCH more, and certainly not enough to produce so different outcomes. And Stalin made sure to use the non-white conscripts as cannon-fodder, so Asiatic Russia lost more men, and fewer women, than European Russia. Is Kazakhstan better than the Ukraine by know???
– The non-european world: There were several wars of WW2 levels of savagery in the non white world. Korea probably suffered in 1950-1953 close to what Russia suffered in WW2. Are Korean women much hotter than their CHinese and Japanese neighbours, where the male/female ration didn’t suffer as much? Iran lost almost a million men in the 80s, and no one ever said anything about Iranian women becoming much hotter after the 90s. This is precisely the oment during a crop of uber-hot Iranian girls are supposed to be born.
– History. The Arabs and Turks both build Empires placed well enough to chose exactly which women they wnated. And the Arab caliph of the VIIIth century had exactly the same opinion about Slavic women that the ENglish hooligan of 2010. It is not that Slavic women become beautiful in 1989, they disappeared from the world in 1945, and returned 45 years later. A quick search in Google showed that Edward Gibbons, in the XVIII century, wrtote that “the most perfect among the human race” were the circassians and that the “swarthy races of the south were ameliorated by their habit (and preference) for importing circassian women”. I couldn’t find this Circassia on the map, but I am pretty sure that it is very close to Stalingrad.
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One quick point of difference. Women’s height is very much an attractiveness trait for tall guys. When I see a pretty six footer with nice legs in some heels, my brain shuts off.
In terms of racial preferences, I think the effect is marginal toward the top of the attractiveness scale, and comes more into play toward the middle and lower ends. That is, a 10 is a 10 is a 10, no matter what the ethnicity. But when you get down into the 5,6,7 range a really nice rack or ass may add up to a full point for white and black men respectively. The effect is still there in the 8,9 range, but only when selecting between other 8’s and 9’s.
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G,
Nice going; just one question for you. Why exactly would she say “you’re bad for me” compared with, say, her want-to-be lover? What specifically is wrong with you from her point of view? Are you too old?
She can’t be referring to the fact that your looks are nothing special or that you’re not her usual type, she wouldn’t say “bad for me” in that case. Nor can she say you’re bad because you’ll cheat on her, because you’ve each just renounced others.
Or is she just saying you’re bad for her because she can’t be in control when she’s around you and that bother her?
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“The women are most vicious when it’s their facial beauty under the harsh klieg lights. They’re a little more tactful and conciliatory when they’re judging each other’s asses or “overall look”. ”
That’s odd. I tend to think I’d act the act opposite in this situation. There isn’t a whole lot one can do to change facial beauty. Ass size, physique, etc. is, for the most part, largely changeable. ANYone can resculpt their body with consistent effort. It’s called bodybuilding. Sure, it takes longer than cosmetic procedures, but has none of the risks (although I can completely understand why girls get implants). So, I would have no qualms or guilt about ridiculing cellulite, ass size, etc. Because they can be changed. Facial beauty? What can they really do to impact or conceal it other than buy more expensive makeup or wear sunglasses?
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Gorby should start his own blog.
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Because there is very little a woman can do to change her facial beauty is probably why it bothers her more to hear she doesn’t have a pretty face.
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“Because there is very little a woman can do to change her facial beauty is probably why it bothers her more to hear she doesn’t have a pretty face.”
True. Which is why I’d avoid comments on facial beauty in this situation, unless I got excessively attacked on facial beauty first. But then I’d think I’d just reflect the comments made, not generate new ones against my opponent. Ass size: well, that’s just a whole different story. There are quite nearly as many people who are genuinely “big boned” or have “glandular issues.” Fat ass syndrome, obesity, is correctable. Not sure what Josie can do to correct her harsh features. They might be more pronounced if she lost weight. Her weight, on the other hand, is completely within her realm of control. I would have asked her if the doctors and lawyers she dates weigh less than she does.
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@Ty
The groups are different enough to look different – in the same way that a Russian, Swede, Frank or Bavarian will look different. Differences may be subtle to some, but very clear to anyone with an astute eye. It’s also why northern Poles look so vastly different from Southern Poles. Blonde hair and blue eyes and round faces vs. heavy dark furrowed brows, dark eyes & hair, and angular square jaws.
Interesting anti Nazi propaganda anectode however.
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I actually think the girls got the butt ranking right. They were wrong on all of the others.
That Josie chick was clearly the least attractive… and she was an annoying bitch… smh. Somebody needs to slap her…
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The more I think about it, the producers of the show probably put Josie on knowing she would make a fool of herself. If she had any self respect she would have declined.
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“That Josie chick was clearly the least attractive”
And she claimed to be 26! God, yeah, and I just got my driver’s license yesterday. Maybe it was just the harsh hair color. I dunno. By herself, she probably wouldn’t look quite so bad. Up against Anastasia, though, she looked like a buffoon.
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“[editor: no, it means DYODW.]”
Well, now, ain’t you strong.
Sounds like you want me to do your work.
[ed: it’s not my work. the studies were done by others.]
You, after all, made the original claim. I didn’t.
[got search engine?]
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@Polymath
G
Or is she just saying you’re bad for her because she can’t be in control when she’s around you and that bother her?
This one.
It’s remarkable
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@Reveblliousvanilla,
My intense screeds just illustrate how much I detest racist/culturally supremacist Eastern Europeans. The absurdity of Eastern Europeans being supremacist floors me.
A few Eastern Europeans (like people anywhere) are very talented and smart, and invent things and have interesting things to add to global culture.
They generally leave Eastern Europe.
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@Dalrock
Gorbachev,
Having read your recent posts on your romantic success with game and your resulting revenge on your aging ex, I must say: If you didn’t exist, we (men) would need to invent you! Thanks for sharing your great stories!
There is a beta of the month contest. Perhaps there should be a former beta of the month contest.
This has been a good year. But lots of guys tell me similar stories: Game. It sickens me how I wasted so much of my life.
Former beta award: No, I was so humiliatingly beta I’d never pony up for that one. And I’m not nearly the Poon Machine that I need to be to overcome the shame yet.
I do have lots of sympathy for guys who don’t have any game. And mystified surprise at guys who won’t learn.
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Not only did Russia lose the most people in WW2, thee total Soviet losses in the postwar 1946–91 boundaries were 26.6 million. But Poland lost the most total people by % of pre-war population. Lots of this was due to ethnic cleansing / Holocaust.
Know what other countries lost the most people by % of total population of 1939 levels?
Poland
Lithuania
Latvia
Germany
Western countries? not so much. Food for thought.
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@chic noir
This one is for you chic noir
And this
And this
Fellas, agree or disagree? Focus on body. Only one has a real face shot.
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how much I detest racist/culturally supremacist Eastern Europeans.
You detest a boogieman of your feverish imagination. Unless you call individuals who aren’t one-world globalists or who haven’t been fed marxist guilt about their won nations “racist/supremacist.”
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@finefantastic!
i couldn’t watch it because hulu is verboten in canada…but olivia lee is friggin hilarious!
She’s awesome.
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You made the claim. Back it up.
Or admit the claim has no merit.
[ed: first, say the magic word.]
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“I learned about game after she left. It was agony. Her leaving was much of the reason.”
The saddest thing about game is that most of us never learn about it.
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@PA
how much I detest racist/culturally supremacist Eastern Europeans.
You detest a boogieman of your feverish imagination. Unless you call individuals who aren’t one-world globalists or who haven’t been fed marxist guilt about their won nations “racist/supremacist.”
RV shows all the signs of being another one of these racial nationalists. Pluralism turns out to be the reason for the success of a place like Canada.
[ed: pluralism is not the reason for canadian success.
are you, gorb, a non-white living in a majority white country?]
If she were German or Dutch, I might keep my mouth shut; despite its size, Holland is a historically amazing place, puleld 20x its weight throughout the 17th/18th/19th century, the culture is impressive (as well as the genetic stock). Germans, well, they’ve always had it going.
A German nationalist has some cause to feel (marginally) superior about Germany. Same for a Swede. The French can feel justifiably better about their culture for many reasons. I still don’t like it. Nor do I feel it’s justified for Koreans to be all Exceptionalistic when it comes to their country. Or the Chinese.
But you never, ever get “White Supremacy” like you get out of Eastern Europe, and never from a place so undeserving of actually brewing it. And the smaller and less important and less historically significant the country, the stronger and more strident the Cultural/Racial Superiority.
When the truth is – actual “Europeans” in Western Europe think the same Eastern Europeans are the worst possible immigrants *ever*, right up (down) there with unacculturated Muslims. They integrate poorly and their self-identification as “Europeans” speaks to some Euro brotherhood that Western Europeans don’t want any part of.
It’s fine – I have nothing against eastern Europeans, nice people by and large. But cultural/racial superiority? My ass.
Whenever I think of this Eurotrash getting all high and mighty about their supposed racial superiority, or getting chest-thumpingly nationalistic, I remember why they were called Slavs by the Greek and Romans: because for 1500 years that’s all they were good for.
The cultural output of Mexico or Brazil or Korea buries the entire cultural output of all of Eastern Europe west of Russia.
At least Russians don’t generally call themselves “Europeans” like parasitic wannabes. They actually call themselves Russian. Despite their problems, they can at least can take pride in having had various empires. If a Russian wants to feel culturally/racially superior, he has some limited grounds for it. Still better not to feel superior, but there might be a limited argument there.
I mean, really, the Russians had it going on in Eastern Europe. Who else could sit like a lead weight on half the continent and get away with it? And to this day take not a split second of responsibility for their Empire? No guilt there. That takes chutzpah.
The Nazis were monsters, but like Stalin said at the Siege of Stalingrad, watching as the German armies marched across Eurasia almost to the Caucasus, and fought a war on four fronts and inflicted grotesque casualties on their enemies:
“The Germans are a remarkable people.”
Like it or lump it, if you want racial superiority, *there* are some grounds for a White Supremacist or Petty Nationalist to find something.
When I hear Eastern Europeans getting chest-thumpingly proud of their European genes or culture, …
By comparison, it just sounds tiny and pathetic. A pale shadow of Europe.
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Gorbachev
In fairness, we have had a lot of Eastern European immigrants over the past ten years or so, and almost all of them without exception have been very decent, hardworking people. I would also have to say that the women are very cute (the fact that they are mostly under 25 with low body fat and, outwardly at least, sweet personalities helps significantly in this regard.
I agree that how Eastern European/Russian women changed from shotputters to cuties is one of the great mysteries of the world. A lot of women from other countries would love to know this too. I think it was just that their natural good looks were disguised during the Stalin/Lenin years.by shapeless clothing & poor nourishment & dental care. Fear of the gulag probably didn’t help either, it wasn’t good for a woman to attract too much attention in those days.
Also, I had heard anecdotally from at least two exes (long before I came upon this blog) about the beauty of Russian women as encountered on school trips to Russia around the time your namesake was in power, and long before the idea of East European/Russian brides became fashionable.
There is huge variety in looks throughout Germany, the Bavarians, Rhinelanders, Prussians and Saxons all look very different from one another, people tend to forget this. This is the problem with the whole Aryan supremacy thing in my view, Germany, being towards the centre of Europe, has always been much more racially mixed than people like to admit.
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@Gorbachev:
Western Europeans are pussies now and have forgotten what it means to have pride in their culture. I’ve lived here over 20 years and have come to despise their smug sense of denial. They hate on Eastern Europeans because they remind them of what weak kneed sisters they have become and since they’re white, can’t condescend towards them with faux brotherly love. I say this as a German nationalist myself. SS men were tough as shit and could be counted on 110%. I developed a profound respect for everyone of them that I met when they were still around. Germany doesn’t produce men like that anymore and the nancy boys i see here today make me cringe. Russia and the rest of Eastern Europe still produce men of tis caliber. They are free of the mindless multiculturalism that western Europe has embraced and will soon kill itself with. So eat shit and die.
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I already did. When I asked the first time.
[editor: so you did!
here are a couple studies (note: not the specific study i read on the matter, but when i come across it i’ll be sure to rub your face in it):
“women take longer to form hierarchies”
http://www.mail-archive.com/tips@acsun.frostburg.edu/msg02148.html
“Abstract This study aimed at investigating whether all-women and all-men groups differed in their hierarchical organization and stability of their rank orders across time. One hundred and sixteen European, middle-class, noncollege women and men (average age: 38) participated in small-group discussions twice within a week with the same group members. Speaking time served as the behavioral dominance indicator on which group hierarchies were based. Additionally, group members rank ordered each other on dominance after each interaction. In the first session, all-men groups were more hierarchically structured than all-women groups. During each session, all-women and all-men groups showed a similar significant increase in hierarchical structuring. For both women and men, rank orders remained stable during interactions and from the first to the second session. Results are discussed in terms of three theoretical models describing dominance hierarchies.”
http://www.springerlink.com/content/wv723952q5p86208/%5D
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RV shows all the signs of being another one of these racial nationalists.
One man’s racial nationalist is another man’s Soros Kool-aid non-drinker.
Pluralism turns out to be the reason for the success of a place like Canada.
This has been the subject of debate here and on similar blogs for a long time now. One point of view is yours. Another point of view is that pluralism, in more than tiny numbers, is another word for cultural destruction and population replacement.
Anyway, Islamic chauvinism and immigration-induced crime and losses of civil liberties have been a news item coming out of Canada. How long will Canada continue its success, given present trends?
If she were German or Dutch, I might keep my mouth shut; despite its size, Holland is a historically amazing place, puleld 20x its weight throughout the 17th/18th/19th century, the culture is impressive (as well as the genetic stock).
It’s your prerogative to value Holland for its luminaries and despise Romania for its more obscure historical achievements. Another view though is to value Holland and Romania both for what they are — unique examples within the rich multitude of European cultures and ethnic groups.
Anyway, here’s a Romanian achievement: they held off some nasty Ottoman invasions. Would Holland have done the same, if she were in that neighborhood? Maybe, maybe not. Romania did.
But you never, ever get “White Supremacy” like you get out of Eastern Europe
There is very little tradition or incidence of “WS” in Eastern Europe, as there are no non-whties in those countries. Instead, there is national pride, and occasionally pan-Slavism, or Catholic or Orthodox pride.
But I get the sense that somethig nbigger bothers you deeply. Something about smaller, less well known countries with incomprehensible languages just being there and wanting to continue existing really fucks with you. So you make up these hyperbolies about Eastern Europe.
You can’t tolerate its existance. Small, unique countries, often with heroic histopries, in that part of the world bother you to wild hell. I’ll go as far as wondering if you aren’t an exterminationist at your core.
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@sdaedalus
There is huge variety in looks throughout Germany, the Bavarians, Rhinelanders, Prussians and Saxons all look very different from one another, people tend to forget this. This is the problem with the whole Aryan supremacy thing in my view, Germany, being towards the centre of Europe, has always been much more racially mixed than people like to admit.
Despite what Tacitus wrote 2000 years ago, Germany has always been mixed and accepted foreigners who were willing to be German. Cologne – Colonia Agrippina – was a Roman veteran’s colony founded by Claudius’ wife, who was Jewish. It was a serious center of Jewish life for Jews out of the Roman Army and this corner of Germany was a melting pot before there was any kind of Germanic sensibility. Lots of Germans have Jewish blood, going back way beyond the middle ages to the beginning of the Roman Empire. Just goes to show you. The Germans, despite themselves, always mixed pretty freely – which was what got Hitler so upset. It was also the unspoken strength of Germany as a European country: They truly were the center (and the “chessboard”) of Europe.
Their culture absorbed the best of Europe, and remained itself. A lot like the US did on a larger scale for 200 years.
France was even more ambitious this way after the revolution. For all its problems, France remains culturally impressive because of it.
For a German to feel proud, I can buy. For an Eastern European to spout racial superiority and call for racial purity, all I can say is: wtf?
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EastPole
@Ty
The groups are different enough to look different – in the same way that a Russian, Swede, Frank or Bavarian will look different. Differences may be subtle to some, but very clear to anyone with an astute eye. It’s also why northern Poles look so vastly different from Southern Poles. Blonde hair and blue eyes and round faces vs. heavy dark furrowed brows, dark eyes & hair, and angular square jaws.
Interesting anti Nazi propaganda anectode however.
I don’t think you can really make that claim. Some Slavs look very Slavic, others look very German. I’ve known lots of Germans that looked very Slavic but had been German for hundreds of years. the differences I see between Germans and Russians are in mannerisms, but not looks. The same is true of Poles. There are some patterns but they are not that distinct and they have been diluted by centuries of inter- breeding. One can’t really tell a Bavarian from a Swabian for instance, although ethnically Bavarians are more Celtic than German. You can hear the difference in how they talk but not visually.
All the same, they are all Germanic stock, it is an historical fact. Ostrogoths come from Poland, NW Russia, Eastern Germany and the Baltic regions. Visigoths come from North Germany and Scandinavia. All of these groups began migrating in the 1st century BC into what is modern day Poland and Eastern Germany and then in the 4th century crossed into Western Europe and the Roman empire as tribal confederations. All of these groups originated on the south central Asian steppes about 5000 years ago. The original Aryans are actually from the Caucasus region and were Turkomen originally. Iran means land of the Aryans. The Nazis borrowed their eagle from ancient Persia for instance.
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@PA
You can’t tolerate its existance. Small, unique countries, often with heroic histopries, in that part of the world bother you to wild hell. I’ll go as far as wondering if you aren’t an exterminationist at your core.
Quite the opposite. Cultural chauvinism is always retarded – I’m North American, and one thing I’ve found is that on average, North/South Americans are in general more open to embracing others and are less hidebound by old-world (Europe/Asian) limitations. When countries like the US, Canada, Mexico or Brazil are at their finest, they’re like this.
The very, very, very last thing we need to export from the Balkans or Eastern Europe is their xenophobic cultural pride. In few cases is this exclusionary pride justified; and in all cases it’s socially toxic. It’s where we get the concept of Balkanization.
Petty nationalism is just poison.
At least American nationalism, if sometimes exaggerated, is based on ideas and principles. Same is true for France or Canada or Mexico.
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In few cases is this exclusionary pride justified; and in all cases it’s socially toxic.
I’m gonna walk into your house, put my feet on your coffeetable, own the remote, and tell your girlfriend to make me a sandwitch. If you so much as peep, I’ll bitchlap you and tell you that your exclusionary pride is toxic.
At least American nationalism, if sometimes exaggerated, is based on ideas and principles.
The Bolshevik revolution was also based on ideas and principles too. So I gues you think it was good.
For a German to feel proud, I can buy. For an Eastern European to spout racial superiority and call for racial purity, all I can say is: wtf?
Tyrone said some strong words to you and he’s right on. I cosign his “eat shit and die” but at the same time, oddly, I can’t feel as little as a molecule of anger at you, and I’ve gone off on other commenters in the past. What I feel is somethign closer to pity at your flailing. Something about you strikes me as being like an empty, noisy vessel.
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In few cases is this exclusionary pride justified; and in all cases it’s socially toxic.
I’m gonna walk into your house, put my feet on your coffeetable, own the remote, and tell your girlfriend to make me a sandwitch. If you so much as peep, I’ll bitchlap you and tell you that your exclusionary pride is toxic.
At least American nationalism, if sometimes exaggerated, is based on ideas and principles.
The Bolshevik revolution was also based on ideas and principles too. So I guess you think it was good.
For a German to feel proud, I can buy. For an Eastern European to spout racial superiority and call for racial purity, all I can say is: wtf?
Tyrone said some strong words to you and he’s right on. I cosign his “eat shit and die” but at the same time, oddly, I can’t feel as little as a molecule of anger at you, and I’ve gone off on other commenters in the past. What I feel is somethign closer to pity at your flailing. Something about you strikes me as being like an empty, noisy vessel.
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The thing is, that you could have lived, in Germany, Poland Belarussia or Ukraine, or etc having 4 passports without moving a step out of your small village, the borders always changed, so of course it makes sence that people are a great mix, they can look anyhow ethnically around here.
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Great post.
Hopefully someone can link to another BOTB espisode I stumbled upon at 3 in the morning, featuring a Russian girl (Natasha, I think the name was?)
Only on this one, the girl is NOT so sweet and quiet. She rips apart the other girls in the way only someone who has been treated like a european princess since birth can.
(She eventually fumed when she lost a competition to a little blonde hottie.)
I disagree on the “no racial integration” for something as silly as Battle Of The Bods. For something as simple as physical attractiveness, they should put the finest of the finest togehter, regardless of race. I’ll take some racial tiptoeing affecting a ranking over watching some bush-league Hitler Youth Miss Universe pageant.
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@biktopia
The thing is, that you could have lived, in Germany, Poland Belarussia or Ukraine, or etc having 4 passports without moving a step out of your small village, the borders always changed, so of course it makes sence that people are a great mix, they can look anyhow ethnically around here.
Yes, this is very true, so much of what is now Poland was formerly Prussia or Silesia, in fact East Prussia (Kalingrad) ended up as part of Russia, much to its misfortune.
Although all the ethnic Germans were cleared out of East Prussia in the most drastic fashion as part of the Red Army’s advance, there are still a lot of people in Silesia of ethnic German origin. The boundaries are similarly fluid in the other examples you give.
I love Germany but it is definitely a mongrel state (so ironic, in the circumstances, that it attached so much importance to Blut und Boden.
Also, there is a big ethnic & cultural difference between the southern Eastern European countries (which were effectively part of the Turkish empire) and the northern ones, people tend to lump all the Eastern European countries in together, this is misleading.
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@ Nicole
“but, I walk down the street, and people want to know me because I have a stunning smile and the level of presence that for some reason, inspires people to just come out of the blue and tell me how beautiful I am,”
That counts foir lots more than people here want to admit.
[editor: or it counts for a lot less than people in general want to admit.]
“despite my being objectively ugly”
You’re not.
[liar.]
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@Nicole
“when they’re young this is true. Something happens to the vast majority of them when they hit about age 23 though…Very few keep even reasonably good looks over 25. ”
At the risk of bring down the ire of the multitudes upon myself, I agree. I live in a community where there are a lot of EE emigres. The young women are lovely, but the middle aged ones…
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@sdaedalus
I love Germany but it is definitely a mongrel state (so ironic, in the circumstances, that it attached so much importance to Blut und Boden.
One of modern Germany’s great strengths is its multiethnicity. The problem remains Islam, of course. But remove that and Germany is powerful for its multiethnic state.
Also, there is a big ethnic & cultural difference between the southern Eastern European countries (which were effectively part of the Turkish empire) and the northern ones, people tend to lump all the Eastern European countries in together, this is misleading.
I agree with you. The Balkans are a particular mess, but I wonder if the (mindless) racism in the Balkans is worse in areas formerly dominated by the Ottomans?
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Nicole is not objectively ugly.
She may or may not be sexually desirable, depending on preference.
But she is not bad to look at. She does not disgust, and turn the gaze.
She is not ugly.
You people need to define your terms a bit more specifically.
Much of what I read here makes sense on some level.
But I also see too much generalization, stereotyping, and anecdotal bullshit.
Too many “studies” based on an n of 14.
I’m calling bullshit. Prove me wrong.
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@Roissy
[ed: pluralism is not the reason for canadian success.
This is true, but most Canadians I know are by and large extreme multiculturalists, moreso than liberal Americans. Their country may have troubles, and Islam is guaranteed to bring more whether they know it or not, and they seem pretty blind to this, but pluralism hasn’t caused problems there. They even manage to keep French separatism under wraps. How the hell they did that is a mystery.
If Canada was in Eastern Europe, it would have had a civil war several times over.
Actually, what the hell keeps that country together: I have no idea. But whatever they’re doing, it’s working pretty well. Might be worth studying.
are you, gorb, a non-white living in a majority white country?]
Obviously I can’t speak for black or minority people. But I’m going to guess that they have an easier time of it in a place like Canada than they do in, say, Bulgaria. And I’ll guess that most Bulgarians have an easier time of it in a place like Canada for that matter than they do in Bulgaria. As long as they don’t mind their daughters dating non-Bulgarians.
I saw more mixed couples in Toronto than I did in NYC, and there wasn’t the same segregation I found at home. Younger Canadians all seemed pretty well-adapted, too. One American I know who lives there says she was shocked by her son’s friends: it was like the United Nations. She was from Chicago.
So what the hell did these Canadians do? Seriously, someone should go up there and study it. Was it default? Did they luck into it?
Honestly, they seem pretty smug about it, but I’m not sure they know what happened either. No-one ever gave me a straight answer. It all sounded too convenient.
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Germany is powerful for its multiethnic state.
I did not intend to say that Germany was a multi-ethnic state
I am just making the point that there was a lot of movement between Germany & neighbouring countries, particularly during the Wars of Religion (a lot of French Huguenots moved to Protestant German states and vice versa). There is nothing strange or startling about this, it is quite normal, it is just the Germans have gone on so much about German purity & superiority over said neighbouring countries in the past.
I think describing Germany as multi-ethnic on account of this is too strong though, are the neighbouring French, Polish, Italians, Swiss etc. really different ethnicities to the Germans? The Jewish people were of course but that particular feature of German multi-ethnicity has been dead in the water for some time now.
I appreciate there is a relatively large Muslim presence in Germany but I note you have excluded them from your discussion.
The Balkans are a particular mess, but I wonder if the (mindless) racism in the Balkans is worse in areas formerly dominated by the Ottomans?
I thought all the Balkans were formerly dominated by the Ottomans, but I am in no way an expert on this area.
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The one country over-looked for hot women is Singapore. There is a real ethnic mix between CHinese, Indians and Malays which produces some of the most exotic women in the world. Add to that constant sunshine, they’re permanently tanned. Then add to that a Victorian slightly sexually repressed culture and I’ve found Singaporean women to be the most fun of all Asian women.
They speak English, they’re highly educated, well-off. Many are forced into a kind of fast, early marriage due to government pressure and a socially engineered patriarchal society that forces them to marry early and have two kids.
Those who buck that trend…are truly spectacular. Somehow the palm oil in the diet makes for much curvier Chinese women overall.
The heat means short skirts are de riquer…heels–the higher the better.
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Ugh what is this post coming to?! Over it!
And the magic word is cockas!
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@ Gorbachev
Does Canada not have quite a strict immigration policy based on points rather than race, does it mean they get the more educated etc of immigrants who may assimilate better?
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@sdaedalus
I did not intend to say that Germany was a multi-ethnic state
Sloppy word. Sorry. I should say – Ethnically porous state, where despite the talk people mix and breed pretty freely.
I am just making the point that there was a lot of movement between Germany & neighbouring countries, particularly during the Wars of Religion (a lot of French Huguenots moved to Protestant German states and vice versa). There is nothing strange or startling about this, it is quite normal, it is just the Germans have gone on so much about German purity & superiority over said neighbouring countries in the past.
They did. It’s one of the reasons the cultural purity types went nuts in the 1920’s – by that time, any concept of “germanic” purity in Germany was a lost cause. So it was an extreme reaction. That reaction didn’t turn out well.
I appreciate there is a relatively large Muslim presence in Germany but I note you have excluded them from your discussion.
Islamic immigration is a mistake. Muslims, by and large, don’t integrate. The people and cultures are fine; it’s the religion that’s the problem. It’s the very definition of Supremacist.
I thought all the Balkans were formerly dominated by the Ottomans, but I am in no way an expert on this area.
Some got sat on longer and harder than others: Bulgaria, Greece, Albania. Romania. Croatia escaped, largely; Hungary, too.
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@da truth hurts- thanks.
One of those women was more pear shaped but at least there was something going on from her waist to her hips.
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@Lily
@ Gorbachev
Does Canada not have quite a strict immigration policy based on points rather than race, does it mean they get the more educated etc of immigrants who may assimilate better?
I have no idea. Maybe someone else can explain it. I know there are people from everywhere in that country. Seems pretty open and indiscriminate.
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Lily
@ Gorbachev
Does Canada not have quite a strict immigration policy based on points rather than race, does it mean they get the more educated etc of immigrants who may assimilate better?
not Gorbachev, but I will tell you that Canada takes more refuges than the US.
Toronto looked to be about 50% Asian when I was there.
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sdadelus: “I was just curious as to other commenters’ views on BMI, yours are well known already”
What Roissy says is 100% on the money. Josie is a beast, with personality to match. She’s on that cusp of, “if I had enough booze in me to hit that, I wouldn’t be able to get it up.” Nature’s way of keeping my superior genetic code away from those less fortunate.
R. Stanton: “If you think Russian (or Eastern European women more generally) are the most beautiful women in the world, you have never been to Mississippi. Not to mention California.”
I live in California, and have been to Mississippi several times: you’re deranged. When I see a hot girl in San Francisco or Berkeley, chances are about 70% she’s Eastern European; usually Russian. LA: bleh -women there look like dehydrated fish. Granted, there are a some cute ones in the boondocks (Pleasanton), but they’re grossly outnumbered by the she-beasties in the cities. I see you later complimented Nicole on her appearance, so it’s obvious you have nothing useful to say about female aesthetics.
Gorbachev: “Men show no or less than no sexual interest in her.”
I’m reminded of various venomous harridans back in der nightclub “scene” who used to piss and moan their boyfriends couldn’t get a woodie, as if there was something wrong with their boyfriends. Invariably, these women had at least a small fupa and a cunty personality; I’d always laugh at them. The biological component to male impotence (and potency) is something they should study with, like, slide rules and shit.
gig: “Are Korean women much hotter than their CHinese and Japanese neighbours, where the male/female ration didn’t suffer as much? “
Firsthand experience: Korean women in Seoul are luminous; hottest women in Asia: better than Japanese girls in Tokyo, and Chinese girls anywhere. Ads some sauce to the war theory. Though lots of Korean women died in that war also, and Japanese people lost a lot of men in WW-2. Also, Korean-Americans are fairly beastly. Might just be the healthy foods and interest in plastic surgery they have in Korea.
Finally, walawala: I was just in Singapore. I must disagree; almost any place I’ve been in Asia had a larger proportion of pleasant looking women. Everyone in Singapore looked tired from the heat, except a couple of the Malay girls and the hookers in Gailang.
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@Lupo Leboucher
Gorbachev: “Men show no or less than no sexual interest in her.”
I’m reminded of various venomous harridans back in der nightclub “scene” who used to piss and moan their boyfriends couldn’t get a woodie, as if there was something wrong with their boyfriends. Invariably, these women had at least a small fupa and a cunty personality; I’d always laugh at them. The biological component to male impotence (and potency) is something they should study with, like, slide rules and shit.
Lots of women complain about this from their men. The consistent thing about it:
The women are unattractive.
Except for the fetishists, male sexual attraction is entirely predictable and entirely understandable. It’s so simple it defies logic.
It’s not chosen. Why do women not get this? It’s projection. They can get excited by other factors. Men can’t.
I get *much* harder for hot women. I just can’t force myself with unattractive women.
Firsthand experience: Korean women in Seoul are luminous; hottest women in Asia: better than Japanese girls in Tokyo, and Chinese girls anywhere.
Most beautiful women in Asia. Bar none. Also the best in bed. Well, at least 50% of them are. The other 50% never seem to have sex and think it’s icky.
Ads some sauce to the war theory. Though lots of Korean women died in that war also, and Japanese people lost a lot of men in WW-2. Also, Korean-Americans are fairly beastly. Might just be the healthy foods and interest in plastic surgery they have in Korea.
It’s the food and the lifestyle, though there’s no physical activity in there at all. Oh, and the society is 110% based on appearances and Proper Social Face. For women: Most of their value comes from their appearance, and almost all of their dating value. Money plays a part, but the men screw around almost as a matter of course.
Finally, walawala: I was just in Singapore. I must disagree; almost any place I’ve been in Asia had a larger proportion of pleasant looking women. Everyone in Singapore looked tired from the heat, except a couple of the Malay girls and the hookers in Gailang.
I have to go with you on this one. Singapore – not really. HK is better. Also very fashionable.
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@chic noir
Toronto looked to be about 50% Asian when I was there.
I had that impression, too. Also no black people compared to the States. And the white people were more mixed. I heard lots of non-English on the streets and in restaurants.
To get a huge shock, go from Seattle to Vancouver and Victoria. You feel like you’re entering some kind of North American alternate reality filled with (very fit) white people on the shores of Asia somewhere. Similar cities, completely different societies.
Contrast with Boston.
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chic noir
“Toronto looked to be about 50% Asian when I was there.
I had that impression, too. Also no black people compared to the States. And the white people were more mixed. I heard lots of non-English on the streets and in restaurants.
To get a huge shock, go from Seattle to Vancouver and Victoria. You feel like you’re entering some kind of North American alternate reality filled with (very fit) white people on the shores of Asia somewhere. Similar cities, completely different societies.
Contrast with Boston”
I was Born in Victoria and lived in vancouver for the past 11 years
what are you talking about?
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@Z
I was Born in Victoria and lived in vancouver for the past 11 years
what are you talking about?
Compared to an American city, the demographics seem totally different.
Vancouver: The chics were fit. There’s some mountain there, what passes for entertainment is running up and down the thing. I did it once.
I drove around for a week this spring and saw no fat chicks. A buddy who went with me was incredulous. Do the same in Boston. Or, for that matter, DC. Mostly fat chicks.
And demographics: I swear, every mall and shopping center and store was filled with Asians. Indians, Chinese, Japanese, Koreans. I heard Korean everywhere. Cantonese seemed like a second language for half the population. North Vancouver was really nice, a friend lives there. Half the people in the grocery store (some trendy yuppie place) I went to were Asian.
When I asked a guy in the hotel, he called it Hongcouver.
Seriously, you just don’t get that in the States. Canada barely seems white any more. I want to get to Calgary at some point, but seems unlikely.
Had the same impression in Toronto, but it wasn’t so 50-50 Asian-white, it was more like 10% of everything. Montreal was more white.
Most of the Asian chicks walking around were with white guys. That hit me hard.
Oh, and Vancouver had no black people. Toronto had some.
I think Americans should go north more often and check the place out. Something bizarre is going on up there. Must be something in the water. No race wars. WTF. Seriously, does anyone know what’s up in Canada?
I was expecting the Great White North. A co-worker told me it stopped being “white” two generations ago. How did it not become a warzone?
All the Monoculturalists out there can tell me.
Kinda shocking. I’ve been all over the world, and I’ve got to say, nowhere seemed as safe and smugly happy as Vancouver and Toronto. Never seen a big city like that.
Not here at home, for sure.
And I hear your financial system is just the bomb.
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@ editor
That counts for lots more than people here want to admit.
[editor: or it counts for a lot less than people in general want to admit.]
“despite my being objectively ugly”
You’re not.
[liar.]
Just mean-spirited…
[editor: the truth is not comfort food.]
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Gorbachev: “I get *much* harder for hot women. I just can’t force myself with unattractive women.”
I think there is additional magic which goes on here, though plain old physical features are about 98% of it. The remaining 2% though…. I remember this one young girl I just to have a prod at on a semi-regular basis. She was 19 or 20; I forget: way younger than me (I was mid-30s at the time). Not the hottest tomato I had been with; maybe a little chubby -nowhere near the warthog Josie in the video above, but enough a keyboard warrior might make raspberries at me. Lookin at her photo; probably a 6.5. Yet, when I’d stick my condom encased john thomas in this girl, I would jizz, in like 30 seconds. It may sound like a personal issue, but I generally have the opposite problem, even with hotties. It was fairly unique to her, and ongoing. I think it was some kind of pheremonal thing: she was probably super fertile, and had the right kind of immune system or something. Don’t know what to make of that; it was pretty cool though. Made me feel like a young man. It wasn’t all age either; there have been more jailbait before and after her, but I’m sure it had something to do with it.
(on Koreans): “Also the best in bed. Well, at least 50% of them are. The other 50% never seem to have sex and think it’s icky.”
Lol; too true! Weird dynamic; being a white dude in Korea made me realize what it is like being a black dude dating white women … probably what it was like in the 1950s or something. I think a lot of the korean women that go for honkeys are kind of broke by their societal standards. I mean, anybody in Korea who ain’t married at 25 is considered eccentric.
Singaporeans have a weird physical slouchiness to them. Great people, and great country, but … odd.
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Which is hotter: Harvard town slut, or Harvard town nun?
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Damn Roissy, you sure got on SD’s case. jerk.
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amn Roissy, you sure got on SD’s case. jerk.amn Roissy, you sure got on SD’s case. jerk
That’s okay, Anouk, I enjoy a spirited discussion occasionally, thanks though.
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@ Kate
“Not really. All women have to do is put the fork down and move a little more, and everyone’s happy. For some men to learn Game, they have to change almost everything about who they are, and even then some aren’t successful.
Many times men are expected be smart, funny, have more money than the woman, have just the right mix of aloof and friendliness and on and on. Worst of all, as seen in this video, many women prefer tall men. As far as I know, it’s much easier for a woman to lose a few pounds than it is for an adult male to grow several inches.”
Well, that’s one woman out of 3 billion who understands…
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When the truth is – actual “Europeans” in Western Europe think the same Eastern Europeans are the worst possible immigrants *ever*, right up (down) there with unacculturated Muslims. They integrate poorly and their self-identification as “Europeans” speaks to some Euro brotherhood that Western Europeans don’t want any part of.
you couldnt imagine how many Hungarians actually live in Sweden, you cant see them, neither do you hear them.
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“Gorbachev,
Having read your recent posts on your romantic success with game and your resulting revenge on your aging ex, I must say: If you didn’t exist, we (men) would need to invent you! Thanks for sharing your great stories!”
I really cracked up at the possible irony of “we would need to invent you.”
Most of these readers want to believe Game success stories so badly that they blind themselves to the possibility that a keyboard jockey is just conjuring up some erotica that’s based on a lot of studying of the techniques. I’d be willing to bet that that happens a LOT more than some think when it comes to some of e-brag stories you see on sites like this.
I’ve skimmed through this guy’s stories, and a few of the important details sound removed from the reality of what usually happens hooking up with a girl.
Don’t get me wrong: I am a proponent of the effectiveness of plenty of PUA theory….just not of the ability of most men to implement it well. Especially the ones who feel the need to e-validate themselves so thoroughly.
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@Thursday
How did it not become a warzone?
1. Toronto and Vancouver are misleading. Canada is still 90 percent white.
2. Most immigrants are NE Asian or high caste Hindu.
3. There is no one large minority, aside from the French. Only a bunch of tiny powerless ones.
My question for the Racial / National Purists is at the end.
Canada must have a whole department just for stats. It’s insane. I can’t get these stats for the US. Is the country run by accountants or something? No wonder nothing ever happens there.
I checked the stats. Actually, Thursday, you’re partly right. It’s shocking. What happened to the Great White North? Check the Trends below.
It trashes the “Homogeneity Is Best” model if what I read is right. White Canada appears to be quickly disappearing.
Someone has to go to Canada and study this. I don’t know how they didn’t have a civil war yet, according to Racial Purists. But somehow they did it.
Take that, ethnic nationalists.
I’ll bet Canadian women in 3 generations will be hot as hell, if they can avoid getting fat. All that fresh blood and racial mixing. There’s a serious genetic experiment going on in our boring neighbour.
POPULATION
Greater Vancouver: 2.7 million people
Victoria: 350,000
Greater Ottawa: 1.4 million people
Greater Toronto: 6.3 million people
Greater Montreal: 3.4 million people
Total 4 cities: 14.15 Million
Total Canadian population: 36 million
So let me get this straight. 40% – almost half – of Canada’s population lives in *4* urban areas. The second biggest country in the world? People have to be pretty thin on the ground outside the cities.
There are a few other Canadian cities:
Edmonton, Calgary, Winnipeg, Regina (what a name), Saskatoon (fucking awesome name), Quebec City, Halifax, and Ontario looks like Upstate New York population-wise – many small towns and cities 150,000-300,000).
I checked out the zip code breakdown but I don’t know enough about Canadian geography to make sense of it.
One province (Ontario) counts for 35% of Canada’s population, and it’s also the most ethnically diverse (51% of the population not born in Canada).
British Columbia comes in second (5 million, 41% not born in Canada, majority seem to live in Vancouver). Quebec seems to have the highest % born in Canada (84%), but only 7.5 million people.
84% of the population lives in urban areas of 200,000 or more. It’s apparently the most “urban” country in the world, on the biggest piece of real estate. I’m guessing the small towns are mostly dead and the landscape is like a park. Empty.
So maybe small-town Canada is white, but there’s not a lot of small-town Canada by population. It just looks huge by land area. Almost everyone seems to live in a few big cities.
I’m also guessing the mid-west and the north of Canada is going to be pretty much bleached white, like Wisconsin. But there’s no people there, according to the stats. So Saskatchewan is probably farms and white people. But it’s like North Dakota: no people.
Everyone seems to live in the pacific north-west and the east. Like the States without a South.
BTW, Canadian placenames are fucking awesome. Saskatchewan; Saskatoon; Regina (rhymes with, … guess), Manitoba, Winnipeg, Ottawa. Saskatoon: Who makes up names like that?
ETHNIC GROUPS
Note the second stat here: There’s probably lots of cultural mixing.
% People not born in Canada: 19%
% People w/ at least 1 parent not born in Canada: 47%
Breakdown by Ethnic Origin, 2005:
I can’t get racial stats. Apparently, they do it by ethnic background up there. And their categories are different. For example, they don’t distinguish between white and black; I don’t know if Caribbean means white and black Trinis, for example, or just black ones.
English and French Canadian also includes non-white people. So this means that this number is not all white people. One site said it included black people (Haitian French), and one category was American: Are there actually descendants of escaped American slaves still there? Seems to say so.
Also includes Japanese Canadians from before 1964, all non-Ukrainian immigrants from before 1959 regardless of race, “non-status Urban Aboriginal People” (Non-Status?), and any visible minorities who declare themselves “English” or “French”.
I’m not sure what Metis means. Mixed? Mixed what? Mixed Indians?
English Canadian: 13,500,000 White/mixed (37.5%)
French Canadian: 7,500,000 – White/mixed? (20.8%)
East Asian: 2,700,000 (7.5%)
South Asian: 1,200,000 (3.33%)
Caribbean: 1,800,000 (5%)
African: 758,000 (2.1%)
Latin American: 1,100,000 (3%)
Western Europe: 1,100,000 (3%) – White
Southern Europe: 1,500,000 (4.6%) – White
Eastern Europe: 1,800,000 (5%) – White
Native Canadian / Metis / Inuit: 2,150,000 (5.9%) – Indian
Oceanea: 350,000 (White + mixed): 0.9%
(incl, Aus, NZ, Papua, Islands)
Other / Unspecified: 468,000 (1.3)
Okay, so % of white people:
European: 12.6%
English: Up to 37.5% (Can’t tell how many are white)
French: 20.8% (How many are white? – I guess most)
So I guess about 50-60% white.
In 1950, it was 92% white, 5.5% Indian, 2% other.
By Religion
Catholic: 16 Million, Observant: Estimated 1.9 million
Protestant: 5 million, Observant: Estimated 1.6 million
Atheist / Not Specified: 5.1 million
Buddhist: 2.2 million
Jewish: 1.1 million
Muslim: 1.05 million
Hindu: 570,000
Sikh: 375,000
So it’s not a religious country any more, either.
Jews: Highest rate of intermarriage of any Jewish community anywhere. Hindus: High rate of intermarriage. Sikhs: Highest rate of intermarriage in the world. Catholic: Highest percentage of non-practicing Catholics in the world.
TRENDS
WHITENESS
Statistics Canada estimates that “Visible Minorities” (non-White people) will be 51% of the population by 2020-2025, no later than 2050.
Rate of population growth, 1992-2005:
English Canadian: -5.1%
French Canadian: -3.8%
East Asian: +8.1%
South Asian: +10.5%
Caribbean: +5.5%
African: +3.5%
Latin American: +6%
Western Europe: -1.1%
Southern Europe: +0.8%
Eastern Europe: +2.4%
Native Canadian / Metis / Inuit: +6.9%
Oceanea: +59%
Other / Unspecified: +4.6%
Check out all the Aussies moving to Canada all of a sudden.
QUESTION
So, given that Canada is rapidly Un-White-ifying, obviously because white people aren’t having babies, why doesn’t Canada have brutal race wars?
[editor: all things in due time, my non-white brother. in due time.]
What’s their secret? Why aren’t white people burning the cities down or beating the crap out of immigrants?
[with diversity, numbers are of the essence, followed closely by cultural and genetic distance between the competing groups.]
My Canadian friend told me there’s nothing like the American fear of immigrants up there. Basically, there’s no real political resistance to immigration at all. It’s never discussed in political debates, and no-one has strong feelings like in the States.
Just curious what the racial purists will say.
[canadian don’t talk about immigration in anything but genuflecting tones because doubters are effectively silenced. and they crap their pants at the first hint of anyone upsetting the apple cart with “dangerous” and “divisive” talk.]
Like I said, when I was there, I saw huge numbers of mixed couples. Lots of Asian-White, Indian-White, Black-Indian, and others I probably couldn’t tell right away.
Maybe some Canadians can tell me what the hell is going on up there. How do you people make it work?
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Gorbachev, all the Canadian cities you mention are 60%-90% white/Asian. What “race war” were you anticipating?
Check out one of those periodical lists of the World’s Most Livable Cities. You know the places I’m talking about: Toronto, Vancouver, Montreal, Zurich, Sydney, Melbourne, Tokyo, Helsinki. Maybe San Francisco, Seattle, certainly Honolulu. Hmm, a pattern emerges. What binds them all? I can’t put my finger on it.
If you really want to experience pluralism in action, may I suggest Watts?
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@Christopher Paul
Gorbachev, all the Canadian cities you mention are 60%-90% white/Asian. What “race war” were you anticipating?
Check out one of those periodical lists of the World’s Most Livable Cities. You know the places I’m talking about: Toronto, Vancouver, Montreal, Zurich, Sydney, Melbourne, Tokyo, Helsinki. Maybe San Francisco, Seattle, certainly Honolulu. Hmm, a pattern emerges. What binds them all? I can’t put my finger on it.
If you really want to experience pluralism in action, may I suggest Watts?
The Asians were also Indian, too. I guess they’re “Okay”?
I did notice a shocking lack of black Americans. But I checked a few more stats:
Vancouver has the worst drug/violent crime in Canada for a large city, by a huge margin (6x Toronto); even so it’s about 10% of any American city. It also has the smallest (almost token) Black population.
Toronto has the highest black population of any Canadian city (Caribbean I assumed was “black”), and the lowest crime rate of any large Canadian city by a massive margin. What’s in the water there?
Montreal was in the middle. Haitians there. Not a lot of crime relative to the population, from what I read.
Apparently, there are lots of black people – just not black Americans. Maybe black Americans are the problem?
Winnipeg has a huge crime problem, but no black people. The issue they seem to have up there is “native people”. Winnipeg is the theft crime center of the country, and the native population seems to be doing badly.
Canada doesn’t seem to have a black issue.
HYPOTHESIS
They didn’t have ex-slaves. They pick and choose their immigrants, so they get to pick the educated, smart non-White people.
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Gorby, I think you’re on to something. There’s also the old saw about cold weather keeping out the riffraff. Being poor when it’s 20 below is no fun.
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Gorbachev,
Why does our host think you’re non-white? Your descriptions of how Asian chicks react to white men sure sounded like direct experience.
Also, just curious, why do you call yourself “Gorbachev”? He was the least evil Soviet leader ever, but that’s not much of a recommendation. Do you resemble him in some way?
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@polymath
Gorbachev,
Why does our host think you’re non-white? Your descriptions of how Asian chicks react to white men sure sounded like direct experience.
Also, just curious, why do you call yourself “Gorbachev”? He was the least evil Soviet leader ever, but that’s not much of a recommendation. Do you resemble him in some way?
He doesn’t think I’m not-white. He was making a comment about my inability to evaluate life for non-white people in a majority white society. Which is valid. I have no experience being, say, black.
And Gorbachev: Opened the door and the Soviet Union collapsed. I opened the door and my old life and illusions went the way of the dodo. More or less.
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Re: Eastern Euro women
——————————-
Having just come back form 7 days in Prague & dated/banged about 10 in last decade (Polish, Bosnian, Russian, Urkaine, Rmanian) I can confirm they are hotter than avg. American babe….but only when, both in Prime.
Key issue is access to said babe in Prime.
In USA, the American girl is going to be 18-22 in prime, and most likely a co-ed at some large sunshine state College. So unless you are 18-22 or want to be a party school grad working a cublicle forever, then you have no access.
Now, the E. Euro girl, she can be had on ANY trip to any E. Euro country; or any major US capital all day long…and esp. in NYC, Chicago, and other havens.
Having said that, their genetics peak early. Not sure if its their thin collagen in face, severe features, or partying habits. But, by age 30 they look alot worse. by 35-40 they have that Babushka or “Da Evening-ware” look from that Wendys USSR 80s commercial. Literally, skin hanging in ripples off a bikini on skinny chicks.
The major bad issue with these women is their reputation.. Russian women in NYC, LA have essentially the rep of Hookers. The Slavic accent has become equivalent to ghetto-speak for uptown-gold diggers. I realize many say fuck that, and lets bang. But, it will grate, and eventually you will have to introduce her to friends and family…which will be embarassing.
Only cure: Datw only 9-10+s, and above issues melt away, as all give u a pass at that level.
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@Gorbachev:
Canada works because they are 30 million people in a resource wealthy country that is also the world’s second largest. French separatism is not that serious as every Quebecer knows they will have to pay even more taxes to maintain a separate state, so its most effective as a means of blackmailing the rest of the nation into giving them control. Harper is the first non-Quebec Prime Minister in my entire life, and I’m 48. Diversity plus proximity equals race war. Canada doesn’t have the problem of proximity yet.
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Roissy, there is a show in my country in which there is a bunch of blondes and a dude competing to win money. He must answer the question correctly and then pick blondes he thinks that they answered incorrectly. Anyway, the women are quite mean to the contestants at first. What I found quite funny is that when the man is a beta weakling that allows them to step over them, the meanness can turn to downright insults. While some men neg them and act in a confident and humorous way, which gets the girls to be friendly to him and at times even flirty. Another thing I noticed is that the higher value he seems to have, the flirtier they get considering that there’s only one guy and a lot of women competing so they compete among themselves for his attention. And there are men who react in bitter ways, which is amusing to me since they obviously display their higher intelligence while obliterating the women’s meanness, but they appear as bitter, petty individuals in the end.
The man in a show was a former football player who apparently was fairly popular and yet another thing that confirms game’s hypothesis. They weren’t mean to him from the beginning.
The show is similar to this Russian one. It’s funny because I’m the only person consciously noticing these things when I watch them with friends. It’s not my fault I find psychology interesting – the male one is more interesting, if you ask me. For example, I polled friends about their instinctual desires to ravish delicate looking women and yet protect them in the same time and it was fascinating to me.
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Re; Elite looks of Russia/EE & War
I think there is no correlation / link.
I think post ’45 Iron Curtain and USSR had more to do with it.
A lot of the low-brow qualities associated with other populations (squatness, stockiness, masculine women, big noses, frizzy hair, low fertility) didnt pollute the gene pool…as they were kept out under threat of death.
Further, the elites kept seeking higher quality mates, and sending lower quality into oblivion (Siberia, Work camps), so it just distilled beauty to the point of perfection.
Not being racist, but even in India, Asia, MidE etc, many Mothers will advertise Grooms and explicity say no DARK women, or harsh qualities of field-workers/laborers.
If you go to E Euro today you see the gene pollution occuring rapidly, and the fast food nation taking over.
Key polluters are UK/Westerners, Middle easterners, and other moneyed fat-shits spewing their mongrel genes into hookers and improvished mail order brides. Sad, but true.
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@JH
I really cracked up at the possible irony of “we would need to invent you.”
Glad you enjoyed it! Irony fully intended.
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@ Gorbachev
“HYPOTHESIS
“They didn’t have ex-slaves. They pick and choose their immigrants, so they get to pick the educated, smart non-White people”
That’s my feeling too. I understand they have a rigid points system which is for example why they have many tamil people from sri lanka there.
But chicnoir pointed out that they take in more refugees than the US so that would counteract that theory a bit.
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I used to TIVO this show. It comes on FOX Reality. If you check the usenet, you may see a couple of my uploads. If anyone wants to see more, feel free to drop me an email and I will upp the rest to the usenet or my personal FTP server. Will provide username and pass. demonio316@comcast.net
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Nicole, usually women here look good until they have kids. Try raising a kid on $1500 a month from both parents working from which you have to also pay rent. The amount of money going into your looks goes down fairly sharply. Unless you marry well. And it’s not really 23, it’s either really late 20s or mid 30s. Not dropping your kids in daycare while being both a housewife and a full time employee does take its tolls stress wise.
Also, when you don’t afford good makeup and use crappy one, you ruin the skin of your face. Or when you do a lot of other things similar to it.
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Had a busy last couple of days.
R. Scott, the guys here are mostly white collar or leaning types. They can’t relate to your aesthetic. It doesn’t compute to them because objectively, beauty is measured by femininity, and size/strength differential is part of that.
So if you have lots of natural strength and don’t need to lift weights in a gym to be big and strong, or if you’re in the gym because your genes are driving you to do it, and not just your vanity, you’re going to have a lower threshold of femininity than others. You don’t need women to be as small or as frail to be attractive.
Others who aren’t genetically strong or driven towards strength enhancing activities, are going to have a higher threshold. I agree with them that it is mostly biological rather than social.
As a sidenote, I believe that this is part of what attracted me to my first husband. Something in me wanted to maintain not just the intellectual line, but the physical traits as well. As it is, my daughter is a tough mini me…actually a better-than-me in some ways, so i’m very pleased with the outcome.
So don’t argue with them about their tastes. It works for them, and preseves traits that they value, even if they don’t articulate it as such.
People who are genetically incompatible, or display traits that they don’t want to see in their kids, are objectively ugly to them, and this is how it should be.
I should only be pretty to guys who want to have scary intelligent, physically tough kids.
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“The amount of money going into your looks goes down fairly sharply.
Also, when you don’t afford good makeup and use crappy one, you ruin the skin of your face. Or when you do a lot of other things similar to it.”
Don’t know if I agree that a woman has to be rich to preserve the look of youth. There are plenty of natural products and natural remedies — pure of chemicals found in fancy products that can actually cause aging — one can use.
Staying out of the sun, not smoking or drinking (or at least quitting), getting enough sleep, exercising, etc. are all free and are very much a part of looking better as women age.
I concur on stress being a factor in aging poorly; I can imagine that if one has children and doesn’t have money to take care of them, this would cause a great deal of stress.
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Kate, obviously you don’t need to have millions. For example, the foundation I use costs $50 and it’s healthy and doesn’t ruin your facial skin. I rarely use foundation, but I’m giving an example. Using a cheap one ruins your skin though long term. In the same way, if you want to use makeup and look good, but you try to cut costs, you use a crappy makeup remover. This probably taxes your facial skin more than the rest of the things combined. The quality of the bodily and facial care products you use influence your long term looks. This is why I advise all the women who I talk to to invest in quality facial care. By not spending much on your looks this is what I meant. I didn’t mean weekly trips to the spa.
And another thing that I forgot to add is that women in Eastern European smoke almost just as much as men and we smoke quite a bit more than Western Europeans who smoke quite a bit more than Americans. This causes skin aging too.
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sdaeduls That’s okay, Anouk, I enjoy a spirited discussion occasionally, thanks though.
since you didn’t respond to his sweetness, the evil alpha will make an apperance.
[editor: i’m not evil. i’m just drawn that way.]
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Chic
since you didn’t respond to his sweetness, the evil alpha will make an apperance.
You mean the Bad Mr Hyde?
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“You mean the Bad Mr Hyde?”
–it would be the Gemini men who can lay claim to the mastering of the Jekyll/Hyde twins….Cancers can just be moody and make examples out of folks on a whim. Especially if said folks tried to say that Josie was “curvy”, which she isn’t, she’s fat. Poor choice of example but the point was somewhat valid. Some guys just like ’em big. I’ve witnessed it too cutie. (I would have been in for some back support but I was too hung-over.)
[editor: interesting. but i’m not a cancer. (other chateau proprietors may speak for themselves.) josie’s other problem was her plumber’s crack. did she look in a mirror when she tried on that bikini? flat, flabby ass + plumber crack = instant boner deflator.
btw, for all this talk about “some guys” just liking them big, in all my life i think i’ve known maybe two dudes who genuinely preferred chunkier women, as revealed by the women they chose to fuck. in other words, the fatty fucking contingent is tiny enough that a lot of “curvy” girls are gonna be left stranded at home crying into their ice cream pints.]
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(I would have been in for some back support but I was too hung-over.)
That’s okay Anouk. I think two against one would be a little bit unfair anyway, it would be a bit like tag rugby.
Does back support mean watching my back or jumping on the other person’s?
Yes I agree it was a poor choice of example but I was misled by a friend’s praise of her voluptuous charms (we girls have to rely on men to keep us briefed on what is attractive in women).
Also, was possibly doing the female equivalent of pulling pigtails (whatever that is?)
I actually quite enjoy a bit of scolding, it is boring when people agree with me all the time.
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Editor:
“but i’m not a cancer.”
–yeah, ok.
[editor: do i write like a cancer? because my birth date is under another sign.]
“(other chateau proprietors may speak for themselves.)”
–it’s not very alpha to pass the buck, lad.
[no buck passing here. this place has been a multi-headed operation for a couple years now.]
“flat, flabby ass + plumber crack = instant boner deflator”
–are you saying you were once hard and then not?
[i was born hard.]
How can this be with her in your view? Oh honey, I have a girlfriend here in DC right up your alley if you are in need of a good boner re-set.
[how tall is she?
how much does she weigh?
how old is she?
does she do butthex?]
“josie’s other problem was her plumber’s crack.”
–that was the least of Josie’s problems. She seems to be just wasting space….and a lot of it at that. She is the female equivalent of a tool. It’s rare I rip women, but she is…well…deserving. What an idiot.
[the hottest chick was anastasia, but i think i’d have more fun with olivia.]
The truth on fat/curvy women:
Yes, they are wanted and sought after.
[not that i’ve seen. and not that any scientific study has demonstrated.]
For over a decade I have witnessed this and have even been turned down by guys for not being large enough.
[just curious. were these black or hispanic men?]
Regardless of what is written here (much of which does prove true in real life), men have types. Some like more cuchion for the pushin.
[as i explained to slippery sally, it’s not just what i write here. my observations are perfectly in line with reams of sociological evidence showing that men prefer women in the 0.65 – 0.75 WHR and 17 – 23 BMI ranges. so, yes, men have types. but the men whose type are lardbutts are a small minority.]
The boobs were great on some, but not a one had a good ass in that video. Thumbs down. Get better videos.
[anastasia had a nice ass. as did the cat-faced girl.]
SD-
“I think two against one would be a little bit unfair anyway, it would be a bit like tag rugby.”
–nah..besides, you had a truthful point, it just got lost in translation.
[“what we have here is… a failure to communicate”]
My support would not be for a tag-team effect, but for real life testimony of what you were trying to say is true.
[fraid not.]
There are guys who won’t go near women under the size 8-10 let alone a 2,4,or 6.
[what part of exception to the rule don’t you understand?]
“Also, was possibly doing the female equivalent of pulling pigtails (whatever that is?)”
–yes, I know…I am on to you. 😉
[mpeg.]
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Editor, most guys who date fat women aren’t fat fetishists. They’re opportunists or the woman had other compensating qualities.
[editor: men who date fat women are either fetishists or, more usually, losers who couldn’t get what they really wanted.]
How many perfect women have you met? Do you figure that anyone with any defect is undatable? Why would fat, within reasonable limits, be different from any other defect?
On some people, it’s not a defect at all, but a natural result of leading a sedentary life, or being “off feed”. Solve that problem and the excess fat is gone.
Ideals mean very little in real life, except for those who can afford to insulate themselves from the trials of life. Most of us on this earth take some scars. I’d consider a person without enough of those defective and undatable.
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Okay, so they’re losers…but they’re losers who are getting laid.
[editor: so? guys will do anything to avoid involuntary celibacy. there are dudes who fuck sheep and corpses.]
This puts them ahead of quite a few males who, like the spinsters of old and the catladies of today, hold out for the perfect unicorn.
[if you’re saying most men have to settle just like most women, then yes, i agree.]
If one gambles on exceptions, then one takes the chance that their dice roll will turn up snake eyes. For the truly independent thinker, it’s worth it…but most people are not independent thinkers, and most independent thinkers with any semblance of sense, understand what beauty is really worth.
[beauty is an electrochemical discharge arcing across neurons and glia that then send signals to the cock to get hard and which produces warm feelings of pleasure. the worth of this is self-evident.]
If you are Roissy, I think you already know. It is a commodity that can be bought and sold partly because as it happens, the most feminine women are the weakest, and often end up for sale one way or another.
[the most feminine women are weak only if you define power over men as a weakness.]
Not every guy is into taking the sloppy 100ths.
[femininity is not a synonym for sloppy 100ths.]
To some, a relatively fresh fatty is better than a skinny hoe.
[i give sluts a good bit of healthy truth dosing here, but i have to say i’d sooner fuck a slender slut than a virgin fatty. i’d more easily fall in love with the slut, too.]
Just sayin’. A “loser” who doesn’t make a lot of money, or has high enough testosterone to want to kill a bitch for cheating, loses a lot when he loses half.
[killing a bitch for cheating is not the smart play. jail time puts the kibosh on meeting new women. better just to dump her.]
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Editor:
“do i write like a cancer? because my birth date is under another sign.”
–Yes and no. Cancer in your precise choosing of words and heavily weighed, often somber/sarcastic outlook. You write a lot like a Leo as well.
[editor: if i thought for a minute there was any truth to astrology i would love to be a leo. natural leaders, red hot tempers, libidinous horndogs… what’s not to like?]
You know your tool, I definitely will say that. I have to analyze your writing further and get back to you. Or you could just send me your birth date, time, city and year….hee..hee…
[i’ll have my secretary get right on that.]
“[no buck passing here. this place has been a multi-headed operation for a couple years now.]”
–Being bipolar doesn’t count luv.
[you’d be surprised if you knew who you were really talking to here sometimes.]
“[i was born hard.]”
–awesome.
[awestruck.]
“[how tall is she?
how much does she weigh?
how old is she?
does she do butthex?]”
–I don’t make calls for others, come out with us and see for yourself.
[dc? that’d be tough.]
What the hell is butthex??
[it’s that voodoo that your poodoo do so well.]
Anal? Can I ask how the pooper feels different from the other hole? Seriously…asking here..when you get a moment, as a guy, describe it for me.
[it’s tight. it’s torrid. it’s taboo. and it’s a turn-on to make a girl wince with pain. but just a little.]
“[fraid not.]”
–how so?
[because.]
“[as i explained to slippery sally, it’s not just what i write here. my observations are perfectly in line with reams of sociological evidence….”
–I believe you, I do..but my experiences as a girl differs from yours a bit…what can I say?
[you can say “thank you lord of the manor for penetrating me with your rock hard, throbbing knowledge.]
I would love if all guys loved thin girls but the truth is, they don’t.
[not all. just most.]
There are plenty of white guys who dig on big ‘ol bottoms and watermelon tops.
[you know, when 60% of the female population is clinically obese, to an observer on the ground it might look like a bunch of guys dig on big ol bottoms. but that’s just the lack of options skewing perceptions.]
It’s the jelly rolls they fail to fess up to, and I don’t blame them.
[jelly rolls are part of the deal.]
“[mpeg.]”
–again..what does that mean?
[you said you were onto sd. naughtily innuendo-like, i suggested you make a video of that sapphic coupling.]
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Your preferences, and whatever effort you are willing to put into getting what you want are all about you.
Other people are not you.
Statistics should not be relevant to you choosing your path based on what you want, and yet you keep using them to justify yourself. I’m not asking you to justify your preferences, or claiming that men don’t generally prefer smaller women.
I’m just saying that to be a spinster or a basement dweller is an unfortunate fate.
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To clarify, women these days are screwed up, and need to give a little more attention to being womanly, and less to competing with men at things almost any guy off the street will be better at than almost any woman.
Men just need to understand that their natural preference for young, nubile women has been manipulated into an insane worship of masculinized and/or bulhemic old hags.
…not that it’s a crime to be old, but in my opinion, having to select from the mid to late 20’s among overly entitled bitches is a terrible compromise in and of itself.
So this is something that is messed up at the roots. Complaining about the rot on the leaves is kind of…missing the point.
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“[editor: if i thought for a minute there was any truth to astrology i would love to be a leo. natural leaders, red hot tempers, libidinous horndogs… what’s not to like?]”
–indeed. I am an expert in the fire signs. Ten years worth of live-together study.
“[it’s that voodoo that your poodoo do so well.]”
–my poodoo’s voodoo hasn’t been shared or given…..yet.
“[you know, when 60% of the female population is clinically obese, to an observer on the ground it might look like a bunch of guys dig on big ol bottoms. but that’s just the lack of options skewing perceptions.]”
–if you say so. Tell that to Nathan, the guy who left me in the theaters of Karate Kid part two, alone with my Swedish fish and cherry Coke way back when, so he could cop a feel of my mate’s monstrous melons. In truth, I hadn’t yet “come into my own”. Still sucked though, the bastard.
“[you can say “thank you lord of the manor for penetrating me with your rock hard, throbbing knowledge.]”
–ok. Thank you baby for grazing me just so with your rock hard, throbbing manly brain and for the full (and deep) penetration into me of the image of your fingers typing those very words. I shall sleep less soundly tonight, but it’s oh so worth it.
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oh, and..
“[i’ll have my secretary get right on that.]”
–please do. I am researching writers and their astrological signs. You could be in a book written by a friend. No joke. The info. would be signed over under a contract of the utmost air-tight confidentiality.
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Get a room, you two (or is it 3? I have my own idea what “multi-headed operation” might mean….)
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“It makes me very happy that I’m not considered marriage material, but sad that I’m seen as not fuckable. Cad vs the dad is a no brainer for most men. Of course there are still a few white knights out there. Poor dumb bastards.”
That’s because you don’t understand what sex and women are for, or what life is about. Women are for pleasure and companionship, yes – but more importantly, they are for reproduction, passing on your genes, and improving the fitness of the gene pool and the strength of society. A guy who just bangs 21 year old hotties but never reproduces, or impregnates a series of dumb sluts and abandons them, is slowly haemorrhaging his alphaness. A man who has his fun, but is still focused on eventually bagging a beautiful, intelligent wife (or LT girlfriend) to breed with, is only gaining in status and influence. Ever seen a washed up 50 year old player with 3 child support payments and 3 washed up 40 year old hags coming round every week? Compare that to a 50 year old patriarch with a hot 35 year old wife and 3 or 4 smart, strong kids growing up to carrying on his legacy. It’s the latter that rule and lead society, while the former work as their hired help.
If you look at a lot of society’s alphas, many came from families that were already established. JFK from Joe Kennedy. Winston Churchill descended from the Duke of Marlborough. Hannibal from an aristocratic family of generals. Caesar from an elite Roman lineage. Do you think these guys were spending their time in clubs trying to impress dumb 20 year old hos? No – they were out changing the world, crushing their enemies, accumulating unimaginable wealth and power. When they got the urge, they’d hire a whore or spend some time with a skilled courtesan. No game or impressing needed, they treated sluts for what they were – a commodity to be rented by the hour, not something worth wasting any serious time or effort on.
This whole fixation with game is a serious misdirection of resources and could only have been invented by Americans, whose repressive laws mean that casual whoring is actually quite a risky activity for men. In the rest of the world, men spend their serious effort on things that matter, like wealth, power, and status, and simply purchase sex as and when they please. Only in the puritan anglo-saxon countries is this viewed as the behaviour of a ‘beta’, or frowned upon. In the rest of the world it is a rite of passage and wholly expected – even by your wife.
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“Ever seen a washed up 50 year old player with 3 child support payments and 3 washed up 40 year old hags coming round every week? Compare that to a 50 year old patriarch with a hot 35 year old wife and 3 or 4 smart, strong kids growing up to carrying on his legacy.”
This was probably something you would see in 1950 but in 2010 his wife will leave him, take half his wealth, assets and power while he watches aghast in shock. Marriage is a raw deal for men in 2010 with no fault divorce, hyper gamy and rampant feminism advising women to leave their man as soon as they no longer ‘feel the tingle’.
Also, that 50 year old player you mention would NOT have 3 child support payments as he would have never married. It will be this mythical patriarch that you cite that will end up with the child support and alimony payments as he lives in a home that is a shell of what he once had.
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R Sole, why would it matter to other men how you value their alphahood?
Project life is project be as happy as you can.
Why would anyone in their right mind care how Alpha they are?
Being Alpha is a tool that helps you to be happy. That’s the ONLY value in it.
For a lot of us, having kids makes us unhappy.
All the Alphahood to you, dude! Help yourself!
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R Sole, you compare maturity with immaturity and the difference in between a man and a boy. Alphaness doesn’t really make you a man, if you still act like a 15 years old boy.
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Actually, R.Sole has a good point. Where prostitution is legalized or decriminalized, even where women can leave and take half, they usually wouldn’t over occasional visits to a prostitute.
I believe that the muddiness of wife/whore or even slut/whore roles in the U.S. and other countries where prostitution is illegal, is responsible for a good bit of male confusion about their roles. They don’t have clear enough boundaries, and expect their wives and girlfriends/sluts to perform the function of whores.
I think men need hoes. They handle the “male excess” that is bound to exist in any civilized culture, especially as it advances to the point of gender value equality. The problem is that Americans are too feminist, and by extension, too prohibitionist. The same mentality that caused them to once ban alcohol and currently ban marijuana, and shame or terrorize men into paying undue amounts of alimony and child support, is what keeps prostitution illegal in most states.
Social changes could render anti prostitution laws unenforceable, but until those happen, they will still be enforceable because the more negative side effects will still be apparent to law enforcement. When most of them don’t need to have heavy drug habits, violent pimps, etc. then prostitution will be under the radar, and much harder to detect.
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The problem with ho’s is that their very existance is a tragedy for someone, namely, their families. Large scale prostitution is more … palatable you could say… in societies where a lot of unwanted / fatherless girls who slip through the cracks are born.
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Men just need to understand that their natural preference for young, nubile women has been manipulated into an insane worship of masculinized and/or bulhemic old hags.
I didn’t understand this. How does a preference for youthful beauty turn into worship for bulimic old hags?
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@Nicole: I am very much a white collar type, so I’m not sure how you think my “aesthetic” differs from that of the people who post and comment here. I would love to know, however, so please explain.
Perhaps you have caught on to the fact that I don’t buy into the evo-psych crap Roissy peddles here (though as a quasi-academic I am willing to be convinced if he ever comes across with the “studies” he claims exists).
[editor: i gave you links to studies providing evidence for my contention. look them up, or shut the fuck up, trollboy.]
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Check out this study –
Fat women starved of sex
Shocker!
But this is what makes me laugh:
There’s another explanation for the disparity between big boys and big girls and how likely they are to get any tail, of course. In order to even remove a sock in the bedroom, most of us have to feel like we’re attractive, desired and wanted by our partner. This can be nigh-on-impossible if you believe even a tiny fraction of the media hype surrounding the thin and beautiful. So maybe it’s not that men don’t want to sleep with overweight women, but that overweight women have so internalized mainstream beauty standards they can’t bring themselves to fool around.
This shit almost writes itself doesn’t it?
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@Seth
Check out this study –
Fat women starved of sex
Shocker!
But this is what makes me laugh:
…
This shit almost writes itself doesn’t it?
The ability of people, esp women, to lie to themselves. The mainstream media just won’t admit men don’t want to fuck fat women.
The contortions the women and female-dominated press go through are funny to watch, explaining this all away while keeping the self esteem and “I’m Still Sexy” self-image of fat women.
Explanation for all larger women starved of sex: Men don’t want to sleep with them. Nothing more need be said.
Pretty understandable if you’re male.
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Ya, Seth, one of these days these synchronized bleeders will gather in a moonbeam circle and socially construct a microwave oven.
Until then,
hahahahahahahahahahahaha!
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“media hype surrounding the thin and beautiful.”
I hate hate hate this assumption. I look at old pictures of my mom and she was in the ideal, ideal range of BMI (and nearly still is 40+ years later). But it’s not just overweight people who are ostracized. She was routinely ostracized to the point of wearing long sleeves in humid August weather, just to cover up and avoid comments. And this was in a time period when women were, on average, much lighter than today. It’s not only fat women that are ridiculed. Fat women have a vested interest in keeping everyone else fat, so I’ll contend that due to rising obesity rates, anyone under 130 is often ridiculed as “anorexic” and encouraged to eat. Anything under 115 is usually viewed as a “walking skeleton.”
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Usually Lurking, I’m glad you asked.
In the early 1900’s. one of the goals of the feminist movement was to eliminate biological gender differences. Back then, they were convinced that gender, aside of genitalia, was a social construct, and were already working hard to push their agenda.
This put them at odds with humanists, who were more complimentary egalitarian. Funny thing, they later co opted humanism and secularism by latching onto the labor movements, and supporting the further separation of church and state…that is, until it turned out that most women were religious, and would use their new voting power towards prohibition and against prostitution.
In any case, since the beginning, they have been trashing what they call the “breeder” body. They believed (and still do despite all the fat acceptance lipservice) that women should have very little bodyfat, and small breasts.
Now, this describes the figure of most teenage girls. To get non teenagers to pursue this ideal required social shaming. Even a little bit chubby or curvy was too fat for feminism. The bra burning was partly a message that women shouldn’t have enough bodyfat to need a bra.
So the age of consent gets pushed upwards, and everybody of any age has to be skinny or they’re stupid, sick, or oppressed.
You’re not supposed to like teenagers anymore, so television is stocked with 20-30+ actresses who you are supposed to believe are ideal or else you are a sick pervert and oppressor of women.
Twiggy was at least 2 cup sizes less than Marilyn Monroe. She not only represented the interim ideal (which as you can see became gradually older and requires more surgery and effort to keep her pseudo-girlish figure), but free sex. She was the junior masculinized spokesmodel for the new generation of women who didn’t need men.
…and men wanked to it, and women strove to emulate it.
Now the twisted culture is imploding and obesity is exploding.
Men who frequent this blog may not be falling for the hype as much, but most other men are. Women here are mostly in search or possession of a decent man who doesn’t confuse heroin chic with healthy, but most women don’t know where to look, feel overwhelmed, and give up either consciously or unconsciously.
Hollywood promotes the aging spindly hag because that’s where the money is. They wouldn’t be selling it if nobody was buying it.
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Here’s another one. An uproar from fatties about a T-shirt sold at Urban Outfitters that says “Eat Less”
http://www.opposingviews.com/i/urban-outfitters-eat-less-t-shirt-creates-uproar
Money quote:
My personal opinion when I saw the T-shirt was shock that any reputable clothing company could promote just the words “Eat Less” because to me it implies your body size is too big, so you better eat less in order to be acceptable within our culture’s thinness standards.
Our “culture’s thinness standards?” No honey, it’s nature’s standards. Americans as a people are grotesquely overweight and very unhealthy. That T-shirt is a public service announcement, like: “don’t drink and drive” or “don’t smoke”
I swear, a lot of this confusion could be solved if these journalism/womens studies/social justice/poli-sci majors were forced to take ONE, just ONE biology class.
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“Even a little bit chubby or curvy was too fat for feminism.”
Jeez, maybe I’ve been more brainwashed by feminism than I realize. I’m at the upper range of healthy for BMI, and even with losing 20 pounds I’d probably still not not have an ideal WHR. Even after childbirth, my “larger” hips aren’t evident unless I’m under 120. But I never wanted/desired large hips. It’s either because I didn’t have them to start with (so subconsciously I convinced myself I’m fine without them). Or I recognized breast size as more important, so my hip size seemed irrelevant. I dunno. If I did have hips, I don’t think I’d have the strength that I do. And I’m empowered and naturally high on that feeling. (Maybe it’s because I have to be since I wasn’t born with hips, so lingerie modeling was out of the question) With an ideal WHR, I wouldn’t be squatting what I do. (It’s just not possible when your hip/knee angle is too large) So, I’ve never desired large hips. (Sure, I like my stomach flat) But I wouldn’t want to have a body that looks like my hip is going to pop of place with heavy lifting. I don’t identify with feminism at all, so I have to wonder why I’ve accepted their promotion of man hips. (I did for most of my teens and early adulthood accept their flat-as-a-pancake breast imagery to the point that I was overly jealous of girls who didn’t need to wear a bra in hot weather, etc.) Fortunately, I got over that somewhere in my 20s. Feminism has the worst impact on the body image of female teens, as if they’re not self conscious enough already with the surge in estrogen. Perhaps, they’ve infiltrated my mind without my awareness, in which case, feminists are more evil than I imagined.
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Michael Kimmel wrote this. I’m sure a lot of people might have something to say about this kind of argument.
http://www.dissentmagazine.org/article/?article=700
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CR, the study you linked to does not show that “after an initial, often violent battle, men are quicker to sort themselves into a hierarchy, while women tend to occupy a constantly shifting hierarchical landscape that encourages endless and repetitive jousting over one’s place in the rankings.”
[editor: yes it does. read it more closely. women take longer to form a hierarchy, and their hierarchies aren’t as enduring as men’s.]
With regard to me, it does not suggest that a “battle,” violent or other wise, precedes the formation of hierarchy in male groups, which you claim happens every time. And the women in this study formed hierarchy more slowly, but still formed it, and it did not constantly shift.
How this study would show this is not clear, since the participants met only twice. With only two sessions, it could not show anything like a “constantly shifting hierarchical landscape” or “repetitive jousting.”
[i agree the study wasn’t the best. but it wasn’t the study i was thinking of. when i come across the one i originally read which fully buttressed my point, i will post it here, and then you can read it and finally sleep soundly. but i’m not gonna go out of my way to hunt it down. you’re not paying me enough.]
And I find it amusing that you truncated
[why i would never do such a thing!]
This strategy might make the 20-year-old women in DC bars wet their panties. But using it on grown men just makes you sound like a thin-skinned punk.
[first time i’ve heard that truncation helps pick up girls.]
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Name, if it is and has always been about you, then it’s not about feminism. They might admire you for it, but they weren’t the fuel behind it, even if they really really want to be.
They can make the masses obsessed with a look, but they can’t make an individual crave strength and its benefits. That’s something that you’re probably born with, or else by now, there would be as many females in the more physically demanding jobs as males.
Feminism has failed to bridge natural gender differences, so they have as much to do with your being strong as they do with other women not being strong. An ideology of magical unicorns gliding down rainbows doesn’t cause unicorns to exist or rainbows not to exist. The best they can do is try to manipulate how people feel about rainbows.
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Seth, if being fat was grossly unnatural, then nobody would be fat. The potential to become fat would have been bred out of existence.
The reason why more people are fat is because fatness is the natural result of consuming more calories than one expends for a period long enough to accumulate enough to become fat. For some people, it’s because they’re lazy, but for most people it’s because they are dependent on sources of food that is tainted, and sources of money that don’t allow them the time or energy to burn the calories they consume, most of which have a variety of unnatural toxins riding piggyback on them.
So “eat less” is a dismissive, ignorant response to a problem that is bigger than calories. How about “cook more” or “get a degree or training for a career that will allow you to work at home and cook for your kids”?
That would make something more like sense, and not sell as much Concerta.
Oops…did I just give something away?
Well, for those who want to know, Concerta is the magic pill. Anyone who doesn’t want to be fat and has insurance, no longer has to be. Have fun. 🙂
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People who have a car per family member and flat screen TVs complaining about healthy food being expensive make me laugh. And being fat had an evolutionary purpose – during the year you gained fat to survive winter. Now since we have food during the winter, there’s no excuse in getting fat.
And the problem with feminism and all this altogether is even trying to bridge the gender differences. The quest for equality is bollocks.
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Rebellious, most people in western countries, fat or skinny, don’t know what healthy food is. They think healthy food is expensive, because things that are sold to them as healthy are expensive, like canola oil and soy milk.
What’s funny is that distributors mark the price up as if to make people believe that they are the healthier option.
None of this is happening by accident.
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Nicole, that’s because they’re too busy watching the new series of Desperate Housewives rather than read a book about the crap they’re feeding their kids with – or themselves for that matter. I hardly have any sympathy for this scum.
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Rebellious, I understand, but I have sympathy for any human who is being misled by the white coats because I understand how little control they have over their herd mentality. I feel sorry for the fat people who think they’re going to get skinny from drinking soy protein shakes, and the skinny people who get a nasty surprise when they do have their inevitable first heart attack and realize that all their starvation didn’t protect them from the heavy metals floating in their bloodstreams just as surely as their fat peers.
When I see some problems occuring on a massive scale, I don’t blame the sheep. I blame the shepherd. People can’t help being born stupid or socially dependent. The ones who are intelligent and independent’s misanthropic, exploitive urges need to be thwarted by those who are intelligent, independent, and philanthropic.
So I use what little social juice I have to promote sane solutions to the toxicity epidemic. The obesity epidemic is just smoke and mirrors.
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RV,
I agree — Nicole is right that people don’t know what healthy food is, and you’re right that it’s their fault for trusting TV and not reading books. The best parenting decision I ever made was banning all broadcast and cable TV (we still had a TV to play DVDs and VCR videos).
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Do I have to point out how irrelevant BMI is for women? I mean, we do have breasts, remember? And men who workout, for example, athletes would be considered overweight. That indicator is totally irrelevant. The best way to see if you’re fat is looking in the mirror.
Related to education, the best thing that would happen is boys schools and girls schools. We had them before, time to bring them back. It’s obvious that neither gender gains that much from the mixed experience. The Michael Kimmel guy has dick and balls, by the way? Just asking. I stopped reading the garbage article there.
Nicole, it’s not about intelligence. If you can read, you can read what you should eat and do your own research. I mean, eating isn’t some crap you do once at a few years – you do it every single day. So why not learn how to do it properly? The truth of the matter is that people don’t care or value their health. They’d rather eat pizza while watching TV. It’s simple – if they can’t have responsibility over these aspects of their lives, why in the name of God should they be able to vote? Or decide anything else for that matter?
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The thing, its hard enough to quit a habit and abstain yourself from something that is raising your endorphin levels,, and the fact that you have to eat everyday, is even harder, you cant avoid food as you can with alcohol or coffee or cigarettes or joints, as you do still have to eat everyday, so it is even harder to work out a good relation to food as you still need to use it.
And we are programmed to eat, a lot and most of the time through history we rather starved then not, so its programmed in our genes, and it doesn’t help that everything is quadripled with sweets and fats in our time, especially in US,,, for instance, the dried meat products you have in the states, i always ask a friend to bring because i like them,, and when i read the package, its always sugar in it, which i find crazy, it would taste amazing even without it, yes even better without it, and that is just not the only product that is full of sugar when it shouldn’t.
I love to eat salty things for snacks, like olives or dried tomatoes, but i bet US would put sugar to the olives to..
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Horoscope.
Guessing on one of roissy, would be a Fish with Taurus dad.
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biktopia, thanks for what you wrote. I literally laughed out loud. We are programmed to eat in order to satisfy our bodies energy needs(combined with protein, essential fats, vitamins and all that). We aren’t programmed to pig out until we become huge chunks of lard. Also, hunger is triggered by our endorphin levels falling, it’s not like addiction when you crave a high in endorphins. And besides chocolate, there aren’t that many foods who can produce a high enough level of endorphins to make you psychologically addicted. Heck, even chocolate is an overkill for your line of reasoning. And I did pretty a lot of the stuff on the banned substance list of the FDA, so I know what I’m talking about related to addiction.
Also, carbs are what gets people obese, not fats. I suggest you read a bit about brain chemistry and addiction(and maybe some evolutionary psychology since you got into that a bit too) before you ramble about. Unless you have a brain chemistry disease or a hormonal disease, if you’re fat, you’re just lazy.
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RV, hate to break it to you, fat is also making you fat.
and for your other recommendations, i don’t need to, its enough to observe my mom, who is obese, and everytime i want to ban her from dipping her bread into the juicy pigfat in the bottom of the pan, she gets upset and go out on the balcony and is very angry at me that im not letting her eat in peace, srsly, i live with an addict towards food.
Food can be misused, highly!
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And besides, if we were not addicted to food why do we get extremely hungry without it?? We could do anything when starving to get food.
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Not all obese people have a disease or are lazy. Its a pleasure to eat, like many other things we could do, engage in sexual activities or sports.
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RV,
I am enjoying your gravatar sequence. How many of them are actually you and how many are just random cute blonde parts?
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I thought this can’t get even funnier. So we are addicted to air too, is that it? And we are addicted to defecating and urinating too? There is a difference in between bodily self maintaining processes and a compulsive physiological and psychological need for a habit forming substance. And besides, our habit to eat isn’t really given by food itself, it’s given by our body’s need for nutrients.
And yes, if you pig out on fat, you do get fat. But you’re supposed to eat fat since your body needs Omega 3 and Omega 6 and they also need to be balanced to a certain degree.
And about your mother. My mother gets pissed off and angry each time I don’t put my clothing back in the wardrobe after it’s washed. Is she addicted to putting clothing in the wardrobe? Or let’s suppose that Roissy gets pissed off and angry each time a girl doesn’t let him do something to her in bed. Is he addicted to that? By the way, I eat healthy and I’d get pissed off at someone wanting to change my eating habits. I’m hardly addicted to food. Also, let’s suppose that you get addicted to food and it’s a medical condition. So how do you get there? By eating like crap in the first place.
Oh, and yet another thing about your last post. If it’s a pleasure to eat, which it is, then you make a rational choice. You don’t care about how you look and you prefer to pig out. Then don’t complain nobody wants to be around you. It’s called impulse control. So yes, if you care about how you look like and you are fat, yet disease free, then you are lazy. If you choose to be fat because you care more about indulging in your eating impulse, then it’s your choice. And I don’t see why people should treat you like a sick person if you made a choice. It’s the same as driving drunk actually. It’s a pleasure to drive drunk, but I hardly believe that DUIs shouldn’t be punished. In the same way, it’s a pleasure to eat, but I don’t see why people who made the choice to get fat shouldn’t face the consequences of their actions.
Polymath, apparently according to the readers of this blog, I’m a 55 years old man living in Iowa, so I guess none. 😛 If I was in the identity theft business, at least I’d pick a girl who doesn’t have a huge nose, like mine. lol
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I promise to keep this one short, it’s a hot-button topic for me, but I believe a huge source of current obesity has to do with females not following what are bodies are evolutionarily adapted to do, and that’s breastfeeding. So while I don’t agree with Doug from a while back about a dad never changing diapers, I will say a dad should NOT be feeding their baby. Breastfeeding (the actual process) teaches a baby to self regulate in terms of hunger and overeating. This early conditioning is important. A bottle fed baby is quite literally force fed to an extent, and they never learn to self regulate. You want a token photo of dad feeding baby, fine. But dad feeding baby because mom has after work happy hours, or weekly spa appointments or tennis dates, well, that’s a problem. Another thing to blame on the fembots.
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“So we are addicted to air too, is that it?”
You can’t misuse either air or urination, but you could so with food, (although, when i think of it, Micheal Hutchence died of strangulation while trying to have achieve higher sexual pleasure)
“our habit to eat isn’t really given by food itself, it’s given by our body’s need for nutrients”
Please explain the difference between nutrients and food.
We could easily just infuse all the Aa and fats and sugars we need IV to of course.
“And yes, if you pig out on fat, you do get fat. But you’re supposed to eat fat since your body needs Omega 3 and Omega 6 and they also need to be balanced to a certain degree.”
Well those are essential but, a normal diet should consist of more then those also for use of energy, we are able to produce other structures ourselves, but it doesn’t mean we don’t need the others with diet, for building others.
People who misuse food are not considered ill , i have never sad such a thing, but, i just say, its no wonder its so many obese people around when its so highly entertaining to eat and that is so easy to spend your happy time at the buffet, and if you haven’t anything better to do, this will probably be the only highlight of the day.
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About breastfeeding, which is interesting, my friends that breastfed their babies recommend it as the way of loosing those extra pounds after delivery, they told no diet could ever top that, i don’t know as i didn’t have children yet, but i think there is some truth to it.
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Rebellious, nobody can make you care if you don’t. It’s just that since most people are kind of stupid, if you really want to solve a problem and not just shoot the easy targets, you have to be willing to do what works.
Fear and laziness is what I see when I see things like “eat less” on a t-shirt. They’re just rabid sheeple who, when it comes time to do some actual work, would rather just talk trash. Most of them don’t even know why they’re slim and others are fat. They think it’s because of willpower, and lord this over others as if being born with an inefficient metabolism and a low appetite, or such a weak will as to be willing to starve to fit the spindly ideal, is an accomplishment.
Social dependence is not an accomplishment.
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Nicole, if someone is slim, they don’t have to worry about it since it’s not a problem. And yes, it’s a willpower thing to change your horrid lifestyle. Also, starving yourself won’t make you get to the ideal. You’ll just look like a malnourished unhealthy zombie and you will be freezing all the time.
Oh, and if you want to blame this on someone, blame it on households not having a homemaker anymore. Someone who is responsible for knowing healthy eating and cooking the damn food. Since J was talking about the importance that we have in society that he/she thought I was diminishing – there, that’s a huge importance that we had.
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People aren’t educated about food or nutrition, I am tempted to blame it on the 70s and the advent of freezers and ready meals (no doubt there are plenty who would blame it on women entering the workforce). However, I’m not sure that people were any better before, they just didn’t have the options, e.g. spam used to be a big thing in the UK for quite a long time (war, post war?), I can’t imagine that is very good for you at all.
Sure, people can turn off the tv and read about nutrition but if they don’t realise what they don’t know, they won’t know what to read. And there are some very powerful industries in play. And I always have a little chuckle (just to myself) when I see a low fat mayonnaise or yoghurt in a fridge, that stuff just has tons of sugar (the worst carb as we all know in it). Oh and I think sugar is addictive? Don’t McDonald’s fries have sugar in them?
When you’re in a US supermarket, you have to be so careful, shopping literally takes 5 times longer than it would in a say French supermarket. Everything except for vegetables has so much stuff in it. Milk has sugar, meat has all sorts of things, don’t even get me started on the so-called fresh bread.
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So you’ve been obese for a number of years and then lost weight, Rebellious?
I’ve lost a considerable amount of weight, and it was not easy to find good information that actually worked. You have to sort through reams of crap written by clueless people who’ve never actually successfully treated any significant number of obese patients over the long term.
Everybody claims that their diet works. How can you tell which one actually does?
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Nicole, no, I haven’t been obese since I did fairly physical things since I was about four – competition ballroom and then basketball. And I also have a mother who actually cooked real food and not premade stuff or that bought me fast food.
Now, the truth of the matter is that there ISN’T a diet that works. Being healthy and looking healthy are lifestyle decisions, not a two week cram down. While I wasn’t obese, I helped friends who were lose weight – my personal best was helping a guy I knew since middle school lose about 20kg in a month and a half. So I guess I’m pretty effective. Even so, if he would have went back to his old lifestyle, he would have gained it all back just as fast. In order to weed out the trash, you weed out all the get a 6pack in 2 months, lose 10lbs in a week crap. To be honest, diets don’t work, especially the low calorie ones. When you starve yourself, your body tears down your muscle(especially when you do it combined with cardio, which is the number 1 that American women use to lose weight lol), not your fat and muscle is metabolic tissue(aka uses calories). The more you have, the more calories you burn without doing anything. So then when you go off the diet, you put it all back up and then some. So unless you starve yourself for the rest of your life, which will pretty much kill you or destroy your health fairly fast, that won’t work. This rules out most of the diets. The problem isn’t the number of calories you eat per say(I eat over 2000 per day and a lot of people tell me I’ll become obese), but their structure depends – protein, fats, carbs. It also depends on your metabolic type. There’s no one size fits all diet. For example, I had to know how my friend feels after he eats certain foods, what he eats, how much exercise he does and I simply revamped everything about his nutrition and exercise habits. What is one size fits all though – throw the effing soda out and start drinking real water(and lots of it). This alone should show some changes. Also, most people are attracted to stupid tricks(I noticed this in the gym too related to fancy exercises) – for example, drinking cold water since your body has to heat it up and it uses calories to do so. Sure, pig out at McDonalds and do this and it will show great results. /sarcasm. Another thing that fits everybody is not eating much per meal, but eating a lot of meals per day. I have 6 scheduled meals per day, for example.
Watch that, related to diets. This guy is really good. And it can address what biktopia was talking about related to overeating.
Lily, if women were homemakers and actually did their homemaking properly, why would anyone use ready meals? Those are meals used by people who don’t have time to do real cooking. Companies produce things that are in demand, they don’t produce things and then people suddenly want them. And I do agree that a lot of what is in the American supermarkets is utter trash. Trans fats, MSG and so on… But you have a lot of alternatives. Heck, I’m not American and I’d know where to buy my things if I lived there. I do agree that it’s complicated to learn all these things, but I did it and I don’t consider myself spectacular in this regard.
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@rebelliousvanilla
My point was that it is easy to judge when you don’t live in someone else’s shoes. Not to do with ready meals (as I said in my post, my initial reaction would be to blame ready meals but I don’t actually think it’s the issue).
I don’t eat ready meals. I don’t live in the US. I have lived there for a bit. Sure, it is possible to shop in food markets, ethnic shops, Trader Joe’s etc rather than say Safeway. But the fact is that people’s lives are different, countries are different, cultures are different. And I know for a fact that to have the exact same diet as I do in England would be easier in France but a lot more work in the US. Of course anyone can learn what to do but to say it’s easy to do or no effort is just not right.
If I lived in the US now, it would be a lot more work and I’d have a relatively-easy life compared to the general population, as I have here. It’s not like I’d have to be a blue collar worker working to support a slobby husband and kids or maybe not working at all and without a good education.
“I do agree that it’s complicated to learn all these things, but I did it and I don’t consider myself spectacular in this regard.”
As you’re always trying to demonstrate on this site, you’re much cleverer than the average person.
So, don’t be so judgemental. Not everyone is as clever as you.
And you may not shop in supermarkets or plan to when you move to the US (though of course you’re moving to Iceland because it’s so much better), but to me at least it’s not an unreasonable expectation that if one were to walk into a supermarket and buy a ‘freshly baked French baguette’ if you haven’t made one yourself that day (and they don’t have bakeries like we do in “Europe’ as you say you live in) that it is actually a loaf of bread. Not some piece of crap full of additives and salt. I can’t actually eat a loaf of bread bought in a US supermarket without feeling physically sick, no doubt many people in the US couldn’t tell the difference. I’m not going to blame them for that, I haven’t walked in their shoes.
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Rebellious, okay, now that you’ve got yourself a fabulous figure, let’s do something about the crappy attitude.
If you don’t learn a little empathy, you’re just as much of a bitch as any typical American.
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Lily and Nicole,
RV’s attitude is typical of teenage girls who are effortlessly thin. I expect that as her metabolism changes she will stay thin, but perhaps she will notice how much more of her willpower it takes than it used to, and therefore will have some more empathy for older women trying not to get fat.
Since none of the three of you live in the US, you may be unaware that healthy unprocessed “whole” food is much easier to find and cheaper here than it was 10-20 years ago, especially in the more urban parts of the country. Paradoxically, the more rural areas, where more of the food is grown, fare worse (in the literal sense, they eat worse) because they fare worse (in the metaphorical sense, because the average income is lower and cheap processed foods are more standard). The ones who eat worst of all are the inner-city poor: raw calories are so cheap, and self-discipline is so uncommon, that we are the first society in history where the poor are the fattest social class.
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Nicole, I am empathetic towards the people I do care about.
Polymath, starting this Sunday I’m cooking since the weekend for the rest of the week, so that I only have to warm up the cooked food(at least the part that doesn’t get spoiled). And I work out five to six days a week.
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I have done some Marathons (26.2miles) in many of the big cities of Europe and America. OK, I know it is a stunt – like holding your breath for 12 minutes and it may be even bad for you – whatever. But whenever I have crossed the finish-line and looked around, everybody I see is dramatically NOT FAT.
The thing speaks for itself.
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many things in life can go out of control. weight is only one of them, but it is usually the most visible one. a society puts a penalty premium on obesity perhaps for that reason.
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Polymath, whole food may be easier to find but well…it doesn’t help to bake your own bread when you add soy flour or your bread machine mix has that, hydrogenated oils, etc. because you were told that it’s better for you than ghee or lard.
It also doesn’t help that unbleached or naturally bleached flour is more expensive even though it requires less processing and has a shorter shelf life, and is cheaper to produce. I won’t even get into grass fed beef and dairy. They make it expensive and difficult for people to run a real farm. People are being screwed out of making the truly healthier choices.
Like I said before, this is something that is rotten at the roots. The obesity issue is just the dry leaves.
Rebellious, without empathy, you can only “care” about those who are directly useful to you. That is not caring. That is enjoying the benefits of association.
Women without sufficient empathy often find houses falling on them. They lack the intuitive skills on the fly to fend off predatory and exploitive types, and then end up becoming bitter because of selection bias.
One of the reasons I came to this blog and stayed is because I was having trouble relating to the culture I found myself surrounded by, and ended up getting hurt because of that. I felt victimized a bit until I realized that what went wrong had more to do with my failure to relate than their failure to be men. Knowing what I know now, I easily prevent getting too emotionally invested in the wrong people.
Empathy allows you to relate to people, and learn to relate to people you might otherwise avoid or mishandle. Without it, you’ll find it difficult to know who to avoid and who to nurture. It is an essential tool for women, especially when our society is losing male investment, and we don’t have males close by, willing to be pushy about filtering our selection.
This site taught me that I needed male friends with veto power. I don’t know what it’ll do for you, but I assure you that it’ll do more if you stop trying to protect yourself from others’ feelings.
I mean…think about it. You could become the elusive unicorn, if you’re all around hot and nurturing. Okay, at least a prize mare who looks fabulous in a sparkly horned headband.
Pupu, weight is not the most visible sign of being off feed, poisoned, and/or sedentary, but Americans tend to focus on that because of a feminized butterface culture. Skinny is representative of the liberated, healthy, happy slut who doesn’t require manhood of men. She is the rich man’s disposable trophy and entertainment, and the poor man’s validation that he is one of the team requiring women to date/fuck like men and be equally fit, despite biological differencess and reproductive priorities.
It’s not a problem where girls start dealing with their reproductive reality and taking their relationships seriously as soon as they become physically women. They’re in the market for a decent guy, and decent guys are in the market for them. I think Rebellious’s idea of gender segregated schools is a good one for that reason. It’s just bad that a school for girls in the U.S. nowadays would be feminist rather than humanist.
For the current situation, it’s a good idea for people to become okay with the seeming “double standard” that is really just an acceptance of the reality of biological differences.
Guys have to realize that women stop looking nubile, for the most part, at about 22-26. Their foreheads start to wrinkle even if they’re active, and if they’re not, they start to fill out to “emergency fertility” mode. Estrogen production is declining, so they need more fat than they did when they were younger, to stay fertile and regular. So it’s going to be harder to control one’s appetite at that point without surgery or drugs.
Asking moderate to low activity women to stay boy-slim above the age of 25 is like asking a man who wasn’t raised in a monastary to control his sex drive and not even masturbate more than once a month. It can be done with the right mentality, but it does require pushing one’s limits as far as comfortable deprivation.
…and as someone else said before, it’s kind of weird to be asking women to have self control with food and not with sex. You can’t really have it both ways. You either have a culture where, seeking stable husbands, women keep themselves chaste and nubile looking until marriage, and are given the time and social support to do that…or you don’t. You either have most of them married by 20-ish, or you don’t.
If you have a culture where indulgence, debauchery, and lechery are common, then you’re going to have a culture where obesity is common. So individuals can’t really be blamed for their following the herd or suffering because of things that are not in their control. Those who led the herd down the path of destruction have to be thwarted.
That’s the people pushing up the age of consent, the people encouraging teenage girls to date boys their age, the people dumping crap in our environment, spraying our vegetables with crap in the stores, and the people spiking our canned food with corn syrup and soy oil, our survival food with more soy, and the people promoting veganism as a healthier choice rather than a spiritual or moral sacrifice. That’s not the fat woman you see on the street.
The fat woman on the street needs to be educated. Give her a card with the Weston A. Price URL or something. It might not make her boy-slim at 30+, but it’ll damn sure prevent her from becoming a whale…and if she is a whale, she’ll be a built-for-the-kill orca from hell, riding a Harley and not giving a fuck because she’s bad like that.
I should design a t-shirt that says, “Eat eggs!” with Easter eggs on the boobs or something.
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If you have a culture where indulgence, debauchery, and lechery are common, then you’re going to have a culture where obesity is common.
heh. not if the culture consists almost entirely of people cerebral enough to have future time orientation and to be slow to anger, oh no you won’t.
you oughta see what happens when all those white people, with better-looking assets than asses, get loaded after a big-city symphony concert, or black/white ball, or something. especially if there is just the right critical mass of edgy outsiders in attendance.
and there ain’t an obese one among their whole number.
but, the hoi polloi? yeah ok.
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Johnny, that’s because rich people can afford surgery and drugs. Without surgery or drugs, rich people would look like they looked before cocaine: fat.
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Nicole, I don’t care about only people who are useful to me. I mean, a few months ago not eating at school in order to give my lunch money for the week to a woman with a paralyzed daughter didn’t really help me in a certain way. And I had a problem with getting emotionally invested in the wrong people when I was 16. I grew out of it by growing up. What I said earlier still stands.
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Rebellious, would you have sympathy for someone who was paralyzed in an activity they consciously chose to participate in, or would you only have sympathy for someone paralyzed by someone else, or because of a birth defect or degenerative disorder?
See, hating on fat people and calling them scum and the like, nowadays, is the equivalent of hating on people who have low sperm counts, or were born deaf, or who were beaten by their step parents. These things are quite often caused by the same environmental, dietary, and social factors that have lead to the upsurge in obesity.
You either have sympathy for the people who are suffering the ill effects of corporate culture or you don’t. If you don’t then I can respect that, but you’ve got a whole lot more than fat people to hold in contempt if that’s the case.
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I have sympathy for all paralyzed people because they can’t change their state. Fat people can lose weight and they don’t. If someone was hit by a car and chose not to take the trouble of learning how to walk again, then no, I wouldn’t have sympathy for them. And I was there and it sucks when you need three months to learn how to walk properly again.
I have no sympathy for people who are into their own self pity and don’t do anything to change their condition. These people are what I call scum.
It’s not corporate culture that is holding anybody in a certain place. A better target would be feminism since women don’t cook anymore, so nobody cooks anymore. It’s also quite funny that you compare fat people to the people who were abused by their care takers and exposed to traumatic events. Oh, and people who are born deaf are born that way, fat people aren’t born fat. Actually, I have sympathy for fat people who want to do something about it. If one of them comes to me in the gym and asks me what to do to look like me, I can help them. If they’re at home watching Oprah while eating KFC and crying about how fat they are, no, I have no sympathy for them. Or people who say they don’t afford healthy food while having a plasma TV. I don’t have a plasma TV and I eat healthy. It’s your choice. Or the people who can’t be bothered to research how to get healthy. Why would I be sympathetic? When someone is willing to help themselves, I’m willing to give a helping hand. If someone just whines, I don’t care about them. It’s that easy.
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@biktopia
About breastfeeding, which is interesting, my friends that breastfed their babies recommend it as the way of loosing those extra pounds after delivery, they told no diet could ever top that, i don’t know as i didn’t have children yet, but i think there is some truth to it.
Anecdotally this seems to be working very well for my wife.
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RV and Nicole,
You’re talking somewhat at cross purposes because you’re mixing up sympathy and empathy. Sympathy is more willed and empathy is more direct. You can sympathize with someone without necessarily feeling what they feel, empathy is a deeper connection on an emotional level. It should be much easier for RV to sympathize with a fat person (because she can come to understand something about why she is that way and how she feels) than to empathize with a fat person (because, not having been fat herself and suffered in the same way, she would need extraordinary emotional sensitivity to truly feel what the other person was feeling rather than just understand it).
So RV is right about not having empathy, and Nicole is also right in insisting that she should have sympathy.
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Of course, people deserve less sympathy to the extent they are responsible for their own plight — looking at it objectively, RV sees that most fat people are entirely responsible because they have the power to change, while Nicole realizes that it’s very difficult for many people to arrive at a correct view of the issue because of cultural misinformation etc.
The “environmental, dietary, and social” factors Nicole refers to are considered less important by RV because she expects people to be intelligent, informed, and self-aware, being precociously so herself.
I think all of us can agree, though, that there are lots of unhealthy or obese people who, because of information available to them which they ignore, and resources available to them which they are too lazy (rather than too poor or too preoccupied) to take advantage of, do indeed deserve little sympathy for their plight. Nicole’s point to RV is that there also lots of people who do not have the necessary information available, or the freedom and wealth to make appropriate lifestyle changes.
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Rebellious, where do you think feminism came from, and who do you figure it’s profiting?
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Polymath, a couple living on benefits in America makes more money than my parents, so give me a break(and gas, clothing, some food is a lot cheaper there). Come to me with your monthly expenses and I’m sure I could find a lot of crap that you can stop spending money on. lol
And yes, I do have quite a bad case of projecting. Because I’m intelligent, I expect others to be so. This isn’t much of a problem, but I’m honest, which gets me burned once since I don’t say sugar coated stuff to people and twice because I expect everybody else to be honest to me.
The fat people who actually work their butt off in the gym and change their lifestyle are people I look up, by the way. They deserve all the admiration in the world, just like the people who reach the top from being losers. For example, an omega learning to socialize with beautiful women is worthy of admiration. Anybody who makes it from nothing to something without being immoral, is worthy of praise. People who self-flagellate and just have pity for themselves just piss me off.
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Rebellious, self pity isn’t restricted to the fat. What makes you feel that you are entitled to judge fat people, and not the deaf, ill, and otherwise damaged people suffering due to the same things?
A deaf person can get cochlear implants. Do you think deaf people who choose not to get them are morally deficient, or just unwilling to undergo surgery when strength will suffice?
Nobody is saying that these people shouldn’t accept that being fat or deaf due to pollution and maternal malnutrition will make them less popular. All I’m saying is that nobody in whose shoes you could walk as comfortably, deserves your contempt.
From what I’ve learned since going natural myself, I’d say the fat got off cheap on the side effects lottery.
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Correction, “All I’m saying is that nobody in whose shoes you couldn’t walk as comfortably, deserves your contempt.”
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Nicole, are you obtuse or are you just pretending to be one? I would walk in fatty shoes fairly comfortably because I would get back to where I am fairly quickly. All it would take would be to stop eating trash, space out my food and workout everyday. If I’d be deaf, I wouldn’t have that much to do about it, wouldn’t I? I could run my butt off and I’d still not get my hearing back. And getting surgery and just moving your ass off the couch and read some and then do what you read isn’t the same thing.
I guess Lazyboy was right about how horrible the obese epidemic was when talking to Johnny. lol
From 1:38 pretty much sums up your point of view. In the end, people are fat because they CHOOSE to be fat. That pretty much sums it up. It’s simple, if people aren’t accountable for anything, why do we put people in jail for murder? I mean, who knows what environmental factors and corporate culture did to them. It’s not their fault and we shouldn’t criticize serial rapists either. I guess you’d agree with that Norwegian idiot who said that Norwegian women should understand that they live in a multicultural society so they must cover themselves up since rape is just a form of cultural expression.
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So you’re saying that all fat people are independent thinkers, rebelling against a thinness obsessed culture?
Thank you. I’m flattered. 🙂
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No really, if being fat is a choice then I should stop losing weight because it means that I’m somehow a genetically driven rebel who values being fat over being loved, popular, or perceived as healthy by people who, though skinnier than me, can’t outrun me or kick my ass, for the most part.
I feel so free.
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rebelliousvanilla.
I’m curious what’s your country. I’ve seen you say a number of times that it’s not the US, and yet a lot of your commenting is about the US. I’m guessing Canadian.
Anyone else know from her comments or own blog etc.?
Just curiosity about you on my part. Not setting up a bait here.
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Name–
I didn’t say never. I specifically said that emergency or unexpected situations could arise; then I would and it’s fine. But I do think changing diapers, and generally caring for infants, is women’s work, yes. (That can also be hired women in part.) I also think that dealing with teenagers of either sex tends to be more a dad’s work, if he’s a good father. It’s mom’s too, but mother’s without present dad’s in the home and much better the biodad, tend to have a hard time with teenagers, or most of them.
I’m certainly not saying that spending time with children, esp. after they can walk and talk some, isn’t something Dad’s should do. I think it is.
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She’s a 19-year-old Romanian chick who apparently does an awesome amount of reading in her spare time, or else the schools in Romania are unbelievably good.
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I doubt you’d overrun me considering I can run half a mile in about two minutes and 30 seconds. Or at least could before my last surgery and I didn’t bother to time myself since then. Actually, the arguments you make are the exact reason why I could care the less about fat people.
And yes, it’s your choice. You value your current lifestyle over getting out of your comfort zone, changing your habits and so on. Also, I’m a woman, I have no need to kick your ass. I can just get a man to do it for me. And no, fat people aren’t free thinkers. Fat people are free to lose weight. And the thinness obsession isn’t cultural, it’s genetic. Men of all races and cultures prefer thin women on average, except in times when the women would die during the winter if they wouldn’t be fat. Just how men prefer pale women, regardless of their culture or ethnic group.
doug1, since the EU acts like a country, I’m from the European Union, province of Romania. lol.
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“Also, I’m a woman, I have no need to kick your ass. I can just get a man to do it for me.”
I liked you more until that comment 🙂 I think I’d enjoy kicking some guy’s ass. That’s why I lift heavy. Maybe I’ll never need to kick a guy’s ass, but it sure feels good knowing I could if needed. It probably have something to do with losing my dad at a somewhat young age. After that, I knew I was alone, in many important ways. I can relegate some dependency to my husband, comfort, etc. for a healthy relationship. But I’ll gladly handle any ass kicking.
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“I didn’t say never.”
I apologize for misquoting. In my memory, the diaper changing was rare enough as to be practically nonexistent to me (in the mind of an uber nursing mother, which means after round the clock feedings there’d be NO time to shower if I had to change every diaper, or the majority of diapers.) Compared to people who hire outside help as caregivers, my husband had more work to do. But compared to the 2-parent working households with demanding females who need their beauty sleep, he had way less work than those dads. Overall, his real active role didn’t kick in until around age 3. Until then, it was literally 98% me. (but that’s biology and human anatomy) The females that demand “equality” in parenting make interactions with other parents a bit awkward for genuine nursing mothers. “Does your husband help with feedings?” “No, I breastfeed.” And yeah, I do have a bit of disdain for people who even ask the question. Because biologically men can’t nourish and sustain a newborn. Maybe they took women’s studies electives instead of biology in college.
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I doubt you’d overrun me considering I can run half a mile in about two minutes and 30 seconds.
Is there any kind of awesome you’re not? 🙂
My professional experience with demographics and statistics indicates that your probability of existing is nontrivial; the reason I believe you is that assuming you did exist I would expect you to eventually find this blog and start posting here, so Bayes’s theorem backs you up.
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@Polymath
I doubt you’d overrun me considering I can run half a mile in about two minutes and 30 seconds.
Is there any kind of awesome you’re not? 🙂
Poly, stop complimenting her. You’re mucking up your game.
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Rebellious, you could probably outrun me, but only because you’d need to. When you get to be my age, if you still find it so easy to stay fit, I’ll buy you a steak dinner here at the Bear.
Until then, enjoy your illusions.
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Gorb,
I know exactly what I’m doing. Will explain eventually.
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Polymath
Thanks Polymath.
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The thing is why have emapthy for obese? They are neither damaged or less in any way, they are people, just like me, perhaps more then me, depending on that one individual, and misqouting empathy here, as empathy should extend to everyone and not a preselected grid, and that is the whole problem, that people love to put things where they dont belong.
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Baby steps, Biktopia…
Empathy is something essential for a human, and doubly so for a female human. Sometimes, if one has been convinced by trauma or through a kind of emotional atrophy, that they don’t need empathy, exercising sympathy is a good start.
They have to be able to grasp that understanding is not the same as excusing or condoning, and work from there.
A lot gets said about the causes of obesity that are the individual’s fault. Number of calories consumed is, to some degree, their fault. Being hungry is not their fault. Only having access to tainted food is not their fault, unless you count collectively. As voters, they have some power to stop the crap injection, but only if they are informed.
Nobody’s asking her to like fat people. This is one of those pull the plank out of your eye before picking the splint from someone else’s things.
Just because we have to be more harsh in expression today to survive, doesn’t mean we should internalize the result of degradation, or like it. Men, to some degree, have the luxury of liking it when it’s profitting them. For women though, one woman’s loss of femininity means another woman’s having to, or having the opportunity to pick up the slack.
I don’t want to see any of the hot young women here become my boyfriend’s baby momma, who Rebellious looks disturbingly similar to. She could have been fatter, and still kept the same man, if only she was nicer.
It’s a harder fall off a higher horse.
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I have noticed that whenever obese people start talking about obesity they almost invariably compare it to something over which no one has control -like getting brain cancer or being hit with a meteor from space.
This tendency is so overwhelming I often wonder which is chicken and which is egg. I mean, do people get fat because they are the sort who prefer wallowing in pretend helplessness to the benefits of being trim? Or is the experience of watching ones very own body take on dimpled layers of lard-flesh so soul-crushing that it leaves its victims feeling helpless – regardless of the role their own choices have played in this outcome?
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Rum, I’ve noticed that whenever thin people start talking about obesity, they like to ignore how drug dependent they and many of their peers are.
If it was all about willpower, I could see your point…but a great many skinny non athletes and athletes alike are powered by clenbuteral, adderal, concerta, coke, and crystal.
Sure, it’s for their adult ADD.
Moralize when your camp is clean.
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Oh, it is always rich to see fat people try to justify their fatness. The “fattie rights” groups are especially hilarious since they essentially want society to accept their fatness as a genetic disorder.
Like saying: “But I need to eat Big Macs. My genes crave Big Macs.”
You can lose weight with diet and exercise, but no…that is too much to bear.
I have no sympathy for fatties.
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Nicole, I’m actually a sweet person, I just dislike people who are into their self-pity that much. It makes me want to throw up. And to give you an empathy lesson. I was a professional ballroom dancer at quite a young age(I was a national champion in my age group, which was junior 2). Until I got hit by a car, which pretty much had me learn how to walk again. It took me three months to walk without a limp and it took me half an year to be able to run and jump. The driver was running a red light and lied in their police testimony saying it was my fault. Despite all this, including me dropping out of my life long passion, I decided not to press charges or have a civil suit against him because I cared about him losing his job, probably not getting another good one due to having a record, living on rent and having two kids. So I just asked him to pay my medical bills and he didn’t even covered those in full. I had no problem with waving any claim because I thought of his children. So cut me the crap. Just because I don’t care about self-defeating fruitcakes who can’t decide to do something with their lives and follow through, it doesn’t mean I don’t care. I personally lost quite a lot for caring. I tutored people at school for free and did a lot of other things, for example. Me paying lip service to your insecurities doesn’t really affect me in any way, but putting myself in the shoes of someone who could have put me in a wheel chair for the rest of my life(at age 15), requires quite a lot more empathy. When I waved the charges and lawsuit, I was still unable to walk and I might have not made a full recovery. I also almost failed a school year due to having surgeries and being in a hospital. But guess what? I busted my ass off until I was able to walk. If you’re willing to defeat yourself with all this excuse making be my guest. At the end, it’s your life. But spare me the how non-empathetic I am. It’s all on you and it’s all your decision to make.
Also, most thin people don’t take drugs. Actually, if you count all the crap in unhealthy food as drugs(MSG, for instance), fat people are the biggest junkies in the world. Oh, and don’t worry, I won’t be a “baby momma”(God, can’t you people use proper English words?). If I cared so much about someone’s boyfriend, I’d get him to dump his girlfriend first, get laid with him later. Also, funny enough, I had friends dump their girlfriend for my non-sexual friendship. Quite a feat for someone with a horrid personality with no empathy.
And I do know some self defense. After I had an incident in my life, I had a friend who is in the special forces teach me certain things(some at which I failed miserably lol). Still, I capitalize on my running speed and pepper spray.
Polymath, I don’t really read that much. I wish I read more. And schooling here sucks – you have to get private tutoring to have your kid pass our version of SAT(which are a lot tougher). The teachers are utter crap(my math teacher couldn’t teach to save her life, she just called us idiots and hated girls, so I had crappy grades despite being flawless at math). The schools are crap too. In some winters I wore my jacket inside too. And the desks were from the time my parents(maybe even grandparents) were in school. You went too deeply into statistics though – I don’t recall Bayes theorem. I won’t argue stats with a statistician. 😛 And yes, I have a lot of flaws. I won’t write them in public though since I have to keep my image of awesomeness intact.
Rum, that was funny.
Doug, do American women really expect men to be great with newborns and all that? I mean, I couldn’t believe the toilet seat jazz at first either. lol
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E, you don’t have to have sympathy for fatties. You don’t have to have sympathy for anyone. It’s just that a lack of empathy in a woman is very unattractive. When you live with one for an extended period of time, you’ll understand why. If you never plan to do that then this whole conversation is irrelevant for you, and you should treat it accordingly.
Rebellious, you have no idea how many skinny people are taking drugs, whether legal, illegal, or quasi legal, to get and stay thin. You probably also don’t know what drugs you are or were on, that have a side effect of weight loss.
In Europe, clenbuterol, among other stimulants, can be prescribed for asthma. It is also prescribed quite often as a weight loss drug, even though this is considered an “off label” use.
You ought to try, as an experiment, to get some. I’m sure it’ll be an interesting learning experience as soon as you tell a friend you have access, folks will come out of the woodwork to get you to sell it to them.
Don’t be so naive. If you can indeed run half of a five minute mile, you probably know enough athletes to know the deal. If you don’t then you’re either extremely sheltered or playing dumb to try to win the argument.
The people who dismissively tell others to “eat right and exercise” are the worst hypocrites when it comes to this. In my time working at a gym, I knew very few women who *weren’t* taking drugs.
The ones who weren’t doing explicitly illegal drugs were chewing nicotine gum like junkies and drinking every herbal tea that some quack ever breathed the word “thermogenic” about.
The addictive behavior I see in skinny people who aren’t just that way naturally because of a low appetite and/or high energy, leads me to think that it is really hard for a person who isn’t skinny due to genetics, to not get fat in the average western city that isn’t full of hippies or food renegade farmers growing their own everything.
If you don’t know what’s going on, then maybe it’s because your unsympathetic attitude makes people think you’d be a snitch.
Maybe I only know about these things because people know that I wouldn’t betray them. I’m just saying…
For me, the obesity thing is just an example I’m using to drive the point home to you that you don’t know everything, and would do well to be open to learning about an issue before judging people.
The beautiful, skinny people you admire, could be drug users, and you wouldn’t know…especially since clenbuterol is used cyclically, and helps one build muscle. You wouldn’t be able to tell that a woman was on it until she started to appear a bit too masculine at 27+.
You, specifically, may eat right and exercise, but you’re only 19 years old. Try eating right, exercising, and staying the same weight at 25, 30, and 40. Even the richest people with the best personal trainers seldom manage that without drugs.
…but since it seems you’ve done some suffering in your lifetime, were all of the people who helped you to survive that experience skinny?
What was the BMI of each person on the emergency team? The doctors?
If it didn’t matter to you at the time, it probably shouldn’t matter whether a person is fat or skinny to you now, so long as they’re doing something positive.
People doing something positive with their lives do not deserve your contempt.
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The more you yap your keyboard, more ugly you become, rebelliousvanilla.
Way to go against the very principle that is encouraged in this goddamn blog. Don’t give a shit if you know so damn much about this and that.
Go worry about your fucking country. Only good thing that came out is Hagi.
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Nicole
I have been told by some well trained people that I have a lot of ADD. Maybe there is some truth there. The thing is, I self-learned as a young boy to self medicate with running & other forms of extreme exertions. For example, in school I would sprint up and down the stairwells everytime we got a 10 minute break between classes – all day long – in addition to a late night run so I could sleep. As a result, I got thru a lot of schooling and had a resting heart rate in the 40s. I am past school now so it is in the low 50s.
Your mentioning of drug taking as a way by which people stay thin is just a demonstration of deep ignorance. I mean, if there were actually drugs that prevented or reversed obesity such drugs would be worth 20 dollars a pill. But there are no such drugs in existence. Indeed, BigPharma spends billions a year looking for anything that would deliver on that promise.
My Chuck Taylor running shoes cost about 30 dollars a pair.
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None of the doctors were obese. Here we don’t have those problems(I live in a city with no farming). Anyway, I’m bored of your insecurity and silly contempt that comes out of it, so tada.
Oh, and I don’t admire skinny people. I’m not the type of person to fetishize over how others look and slit my wrists because I can’t be them. I just don’t have sympathy for obese people. Or anybody who is digging their own graves. I have no sympathy for feminist men, for example. If their wives divorce them and leave them broke while cuckold them with the kids of half of the town’s basketball team, I don’t care. Keep making excuses while you act in petty ways.
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So what are you doing here?
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RV,
If you don’t read much and your schools aren’t great, where did you learn so much about economics?
Bayes’s theorem is about how probabilities depend on other probabilities. It was sort of a joke — the point was that even if someone with your personality and interests would be very unusual to find in real life, one should not be surprised to encounter you on this blog because it is where one would expect you to hang out if you existed….
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Rum, try to score a tab of Concerta. They do cost, as do the others. Even by prescription, they’re pricey. On the street they’re outrageous.
Weight loss is an “off label” use, so doctors aren’t allowed to prescribe ADHD drugs for weight loss unless a person is clinically obese to the point that the weight itself presents a danger to the patient. So most people who want to use them for weight loss buy them from someone who gets them for ADHD or they get their doctor to diagnose them, or they get them the old fashioned way from Mexico.
Clenbuterol, Adderall, Ritalin, and Concerta are the celebrity diet secrets. While they’re telling everyone else about their cayenne and maple syrup detox, they’re popping pills. They’re rich, so they can afford them. Even people who aren’t rich are scrimping and saving to get them.
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I guess I should write a disclaimer. I do not advocate the use of stimulants for weight loss without a prescription. With a precription, that’s between you and your doctors, but without, you run the risk of getting expired, tainted, or fake drugs.
So if you’re going that direction, at least do it legally. Losing weight will make you more popular, and you’ll be able to get away with more with men.
Hmmm…I think I know what my next G4G article will be about.
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Clenbuterol, Adderall, Ritalin, and Concerta are the celebrity diet secrets. While they’re telling everyone else about their cayenne and maple syrup detox, they’re popping pills. They’re rich, so they can afford them. Even people who aren’t rich are scrimping and saving to get them.
Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn’t Ritalin turn peple who use it into zombies?
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Polymath, I did read some books on economics(a couple). From the basic microeconomics though, you can basically deduct the whole thing if you are willing to take the time and think about it. A lot of economics it’s common sense – the reality of economics anyway. Sure, you can make a lot of logical fractures in economics to excuse governmental control and spending, like Keynes, but in the end, it’s just claptrap. Also, watching debates with Milton Friedman helps(some are even funny too, since he was a pretty charismatic guy).
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Gig, who cares about being a zombie when you’re thin?
Also, there are better drugs than Ritalin on the list. Concerta is the best because it’s effective for weight loss at relatively low doses, and it’s time released.
Clenbuterol, prescribed for respiratory problems and asthma, is the drug of choice for bodybuilders and those who want to increase both their energy and muscle mass. One just has to be careful not to take it for more than a month or two at a time. It should be cycled like a month on, a month off. Learned that at the gym.
It’s hard to get in the U.S. but relatively easy almost everywhere else. Concerta’s available in the U.S. though, and doesn’t seem to reduce muscle mass, but it does cut down the appetite a lot. One might have trouble gaining weight on it because, according to someone I know taking it legally, “You take one in the morning, and don’t even want to look at food until maybe the next morning.”
So if someone is trying to gain size, they would have to force themselves to eat on a schedule.
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gig, the whole point is to get an amphetamine, in the end. A lot of people overdose on weight loss pills on purpose since they contain amphetamines and they depress your hunger, give you more energy and on the long run bleeding, brain problems and the like. For example, Adderal is an amphetamine. Same as Regenon, which is a typical weight loss pill. That’s if you want to be a junkie.
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Nicole, honey-child, my professional degree/good living comes from having an expert working knowledge of drug actions.
There are no effective weight loss drugs. Stimulants like you mentioned have been available since the 1930s. Given to fat people, they just make the fat person jittery. If they really made fat people thin they would be worth their weight in cosmic stardust. But they are not.
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Don’t believe the hype, Rebellious. As soon as their patent date is up, miraculously Concerta under another name will be sold as a weight loss drug. They just want to milk every cent they can out of it.
…and if it’s safe enough for kids, it’s safe enough for grownups. So long as one takes the recommended dose and doesn’t overdose to get high, they’ll be fine unless they have heart or thyroid problems.
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Rum, Google is your friend. If that doesn’t suit you, ask someone at the gym.
http://edition.cnn.com/2007/HEALTH/03/21/vs.adderall/index.html
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Clenbuterol, prescribed for respiratory problems and asthma, is the drug of choice for bodybuilders and those who want to increase both their energy and muscle mass. One just has to be careful not to take it for more than a month or two at a time. It should be cycled like a month on, a month off. Learned that at the gym.
WHy do I have a feeling that this Clebuterol stuff turns you into a low-fat zombie?
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Here we see yet another manifestation of the compulsion of fat people to pose as helpless victims. As in, taking stimulant drugs is how thin people stay thin but such drugs are toxic and so I do not take them. So, I am fat because I am virtuous. And so I am deserving of rivers of sympathy and love. Any suggestions that I get thinner are the same as suggestions that I take evil, hurtful poisons into my poor, helpless, grieving body(sob, wimper, sob).
OK, I quit. Have another bag of cheese-balls. And another lb. of vanilla icecream. It is exactly what you deserve. Just don’t complain when I ram-fuck your right-sized sister with uncontrollable, GodGiven abandon.
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Actually, yes, the way you lose weight due to amphetamines is losing water weight, not fat. You lose fat only if you do them hardcore, which has negative side effects. I won’t even go over the whole list of those.
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Rebellious, are you claiming that people burn water from moving more and eating less?
Rum, how am I posing as a helpless victim? I’m just telling women the truth about their bodies. Being slim like a boy is hard for a girl over the age of 20. Drugs and surgery help if you have a naturally high appetite. If you don’t want to do that, then you have to get used to being hungry and the personality altering effects of suffering for a look…like hoe tendencies since you’ll feel like you’ve worked hard and are entitled to compensation.
If you don’t want any of the above, then you’ve just got to try to stick to a natural diet, exercise, and learn to be okay with aging…and accept that this will not make you the most sought after whore on the corner. It may however, land you a husband who’s not a mangina into overly entitled bitches.
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..and I personally do not need your sympathy or your love. Your distance will do just fine.
Problem is you people can’t even seem to manage that. It’s not enough that you don’t want us. We have to feel bad about ourselves because it would boost your ego for us to be unhappy.
I never asked for anything from you. I’m telling the little girl that she’s still got a long way to go, and that life still has a lot to teach her.
Do you mind?
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Nicole, YOU started all this mess by whining about how I lack empathy. If you don’t need our sympathy and love, why bitch about it in the first place? I mean, you’re all over the place and make quite the contradicting statements. Anyway, I’m through. By the way, my mother had no problem in looking like a healthy woman(aka not overweight) until her mid 40s. She didn’t take any pills, starve herself or any of that crap.
Also, the key is to not marry when you’re counting your last eggs as you fatten up, you know? Oh, and your attempts to insult people are quite pathetic. I thought people learn how to do it properly in middle school.
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Rebellious, every observation I make isn’t all about me. I don’t need your sympathy, but your having some would make you look better.
I’m just giving you the obesity version of the advice I give my daughter about her little intellectual and martial skills elitism problem…same one my mom gave me about the same. You’re not a man. How ever superior you may actually be to the mean, you would do better not to conflate superiority with entitlement to mistreat others.
That is a privilege exclusive to men. When women try to mock men in this, we mock men, and make ourselves repellant bitches, no matter how pretty we are. A sucker may marry you, but if he’s not a complete fool, he’ll never trust you.
You should also bear in mind that your youth will not last forever. I wasn’t fat when I was 19 either. I was quite athletic, but life had a surprise for me. If I hadn’t taken Mom’s advice, I’d have suicided out of shame for myself and what I had become. I wouldn’t have understood that this wouldn’t last forever either.
Like Bruce Lee said, “Be like the water…”
Women can’t afford to be too rigid.
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@Doug1
I didn’t say never. I specifically said that emergency or unexpected situations could arise; then I would and it’s fine. But I do think changing diapers, and generally caring for infants, is women’s work, yes. (That can also be hired women in part.) I also think that dealing with teenagers of either sex tends to be more a dad’s work, if he’s a good father. It’s mom’s too, but mother’s without present dad’s in the home and much better the biodad, tend to have a hard time with teenagers, or most of them.
Field stripping a baby is really no big deal. It doesn’t require any special tools (no disrespect to J.M. Browning), and the cleaning patches are pre soaked with the required solvent (I’m told some people also call patches for field stripping babies “wipes”). But always assume the baby is loaded and keep it pointed in a safe direction.
More seriously, I think I agree with you in general but I have much less hesitation than you to step in and change my kid’s diapers. Part of it is an aversion to lazyness. If something needs to be done now, my preference isn’t to go looking for a woman to do it. This is especially true if my wife is taking a nap (nursing moms have difficult sleep schedules). Also, my newborn son needs regular trips to the doctor and children’s hospital (nothing serious long term with treatment now), and I’ve been the one taking him. Some of the things docs have to do to kids are downright difficult for moms to watch.
With that said, I think women in general have been fed a very strange view about parenting. So many are terrified of being pigeon holed into what they see as the inferior role of the mother, but they can’t fulfill the role of father.
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[…] know from recent discussions that all you Roissysphere men have strong opinions on the beauty of the female form (executive […]
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Field stripping a baby is really no big deal. It doesn’t require any special tools (no disrespect to J.M. Browning), and the cleaning patches are pre soaked with the required solvent (I’m told some people also call patches for field stripping babies “wipes”). But always assume the baby is loaded and keep it pointed in a safe direction.
Nice one.
Diapers are no big deal, and doing it with the right frequency will get you a very grateful wife. The right frequency is much less than 50%, too much and it becomes expected — basically you do it whenever there is any particular inconvenience for your wife to, which might be about 10% of the time. That way there is never any fighting over who should change the diaper.
However,and this is key, you have to NOTICE that the diaper needs changing and do it. If she has to ask you, then even if she only asks at first when it is very inconvenient for her to do, you will eventually have to start saying no or she’ll keep asking you more and more frequently. But if you notice and change the baby at a time when she is unable to for some reason, you get lots of LTR points, and she will never ask you to change the baby when she can do it. (Corollary: don’t ask her to change the baby — if it has reached the point where you think it needs doing, which will be later than the point where she would normally think it needs doing, then this is one of the times you should be doing it. If you never ask her to, and do it when it’s really necessary, she won’t ask you to.)
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This is actually a special case of a more general principle of housekeeping — any regular chore a woman wants done, a man will want done eventually, but he will wait until the situation is more advanced before doing it, because he generally has better things to do with his time. Therefore, the woman thinks she is initiating 100% of the housework and it would never get done without her, and she gets resentful.
I’m not sure what the best solution for this is. My wife was logical enough to see this when I pointed it out, and she stopped nagging me about housework — instead she developed more tolerance, so that by the time she is bothered by something I am bothered by it too. (Of course she still does the large majority of the chores, even the “handyman” ones, but there are a few I like to do, and I never get nagged anymore.) But I don’t know how you would handle a wife who insists on her view of which chores should be done; obviously resentment must be short-circuited, but how?
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[…] The Sexual Market Stripped Naked, Women Don’t Want You To Remember Everything About Them, The End Of Beta Providers, Study […]
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Polymath, a femaleness accepting woman who doesn’t work outside the home should have no problem doing all of the chores. I only asked my husbands to do the traditional man things like taking out the trash and fixing things that I couldn’t. When the second one retired, he was bored, so I allow him to do the one chore he is truly better than me at, and this is laundry, except for hand washing.
This is because it involves use of machines that I obviously intentionally damage everytime I touch. (Not really, but you’d think that was the case from his scolding.)
He also deals with the kitty clumps since I always intentionally clog the toilet, or sneak and add weight to the trash with my infernal bags, because I am too lazy or impatient to flush after every two or three dookie divots.
If everybody does what they do best, and sees the chores as the same thing as personal hygiene, things usually work themselves out. My dad was a “Mr. Mom” until I was six, and those were the best years of my life despite the rough start. The place wasn’t spotless, and I wasn’t breastfed, yet I don’t have the allergies my Mrs. Mom pampered younger brother does, and became more self motivated at a younger age.
When my parents had a rough patch, I had in mind that if they got divorced, I was going with Dad. Though I didn’t tell Mom that at the time, I think she knew, and that was probably on the list of things that kept her from going 2.0. She would have lost me in a few ways.
So guys can do day to day nurturing just fine. It’s just that they do working outside just fine too, and are physically stronger, therefore better suited to doing the “hunting”. So when a guy comes home from a hard day’s work, he needs some time to decompress, a hot meal, hugs, and gratitude for doing his thing…not to have the kid dumped into his lap as soon as he walks into the door.
If a mom is feeling overwhelmed, she needs help, not to shovel that onto the man, who already has enough on his plate. That’s what extended family is for. There are also semi-nannies or “mother’s helpers”. Some nurturing type girls like I was, will even visit once or twice a week to help out for free.
Yeah, I didn’t have enough friends. Heheheh…but, I understood even back then that something I couldn’t articulate at the time, had gone wrong with the world. Sometimes moms don’t have a choice but to go out and work, or they get post partum depression or whatever. I felt like I could do my bit to make things better by making them a little shinier I guess.
So if you know a terribly bored kid like that, put her to work.
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[…] posted this over on Citizen Renegade in response to an assertion made by Doug1 that men should rarely change […]
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@polymath
Nice one.
Much appreciated, especially given the source. I’ve created my own blog and used this topic as my first post. Feel free to check it out and share further thoughts if you are interested.
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[…] – “The Sexual Market Stripped Naked“, “The Self-Deception of the White Knight“, “The End of Beta […]
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[…] posts which later prove embarrassing, and he refused to post my comments to this post after I called him out on one of his claims and he had […]
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[…] July 24, 2010 I occasionally appreciate his posts — http://roissy.wordpress.com/2010/06/13/the-sexual-market-stripped-naked/ […]
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You can definitely see your expertise in the work you write. The world hopes for even more passionate writers like you who are not afraid to say how they believe. Always follow your heart.
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