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Chateau Heartiste

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God’s Perfect Beta

June 19, 2010 by CH

Author A.J. Jacobs has been the subject of lampooning at the Chateau before:

In this Esquire article (with a very disturbing photo at the top), the author recounts his experience trying to set up his drop-dead gorgeous babysitter on a date.  For some inexplicable reason, she can’t seem to find a man on her own, so her host dad decides to help her out by impersonating her on an internet dating site and sifting through the e-suitors until he finds someone acceptable (to her, not to him, though the line is blurred).

Reading about his efforts, I can’t help but think what a milquetoast this guy is, as exemplified by what he imagines his hot nanny would look for in a guy.  It’s a classic case of beta projection.  But I suppose throughout history LJBF’ed betas have served as male cockblocks intercepting the natural desire of girls to hook up with the kinds of men who stomp all over betas.  If I were him, I’d be working the magic on my nanny, not working to get her banged by someone else.

Well, the madam of milquetoasts is back, this time with an article about how he agreed to do everything his wife told him to do for one month, as part of research for a book he was writing. The project itself is cutesy, in that it’ll help push copy, but the lessons he draws from his experience working as his wife’s house eunuch are hilariously delusional.

At 20 days in, I start to think the power is going to Julie’s head. Her requests are coming thick and fast  –  and are no longer softened with a ‘please’ or ‘would you mind?’

She has started snapping at me. I try to ask her something while she is watching MasterChef and she answers me with a wave of the hand, sign language for ‘get out of the room now’.[…]

Later, when I sit down to join her, she says regally: ‘Can you turn up the volume?’ We’re watching Ten Years Younger  –  her choice.

‘You have the remote,’ I say, trying to keep my temper. ‘I know. But I want you to walk to the TV and turn up the volume on the set.’

I’m not supposed to argue with her. I heave myself off my chair. Thank goodness there’s only two days left.

Julie admits that she is in a mood as she knows that the experiment is about to end and in 48 hours she’ll have to go back to doing everything.

Oh, that’s not the reason she’s “in a mood”. You have meddled with the primal forces of nature, Mr. Jacobs, and she won’t have it! Is that clear? You think you’ve merely stopped a domestic deal. That is not the case! The feminists and their boybitches have taken billions of balls out of this country’s scrotum, and now they must put it back! It is ebb and flow, menstrual gravity! It is psychosocial balance! You are an old man who thinks in terms of oppressors and oppressed. There are no oppressed. There are no patriarchies. There are no conservatives. There are no liberals. There are no progressives. There is no feminist utopia. There is only one holistic system of systems, one vast and immane, interwoven, interacting, multivariate, multihelical dominion of DNA. Genes, neurons, glia, electrochemical signaling, enzymes, mitochondria, and spiritless matter. It is the universal system of reproduction which determines the totality of life on this planet. That is the natural order of things today. That is the atomic and subatomic and galactic structure of things today! And YOU have meddled with the primal forces of nature, and YOU… WILL… ATONE!

Am I getting through to you, Mr. Jacobs? You write feelgood pablum on your little 13 inch laptop and howl about egalitarianism and shared spousal duties. There is no tidily egalitarian world of your fevered mental account balance sheets. There is no 50/50 child rearing responsibility. There is only estrogen, testosterone, eggs, and sperm. Those *are* the governing bodies of the world today. We have never lived in a world of harmonic convergence and ideologies, Mr. Jacobs. The world is an emergent phenomenon of the incessant, eternal quest for sex, Mr. Jacobs. It has been since man crawled out of the slime. And our children will live, Mr. Jacobs, what few of them are born, to see that… perfect world… in which there’s no lifelong monogamy, guaranteed paternity, or two parent families. One vast and ecumenical hedonism, for whom all men will work to serve a common erection, in which all men will hold a share of dystopia. All pleasures provided, all ejaculations immortalized, all desire sated. And I have chosen you, Mr. Jacobs, to serve as example to men on what not to do.

To my surprise, I tell her that will not be happening  –  this has definitely made me appreciate how much my wife does around the home.

Before the experiment, I probably thought I was doing 45 per cent of what needed to be done  –  it turned out it was more like 20 per cent.

Now I actually notice when the hand soap dispensers and loo roll are empty  –  and refill them. And it’s made us both realise it’s not always the big gestures that matter.

We now make an effort to be nice to one another and, obvious as it sounds, it makes us both happier.

Marriage is an accumulation of the little gestures. The little gestures are the ones that count  –  like making chicken piccata.

I admit that when I hatched this grand plan, I rather hoped Julie would grow to hate the new doormat husband and miss my insubordinate, slobby and annoying ways.

You, yourself, Mr. Jacobs, noted how your wife was “in a mood” toward the end of the experiment. You may want to reflect a bit on why exactly she entered a mood and began imperiously ordering you around the house as if you were the hired help.

Boy did that backfire. Julie describes our little experiment as ‘the best month of my life’.

How many times a week did she agree to fuck you during this experiment in self-emasculation? Was it more or fewer times than typical? Perhaps you reveal the answer in your article:

Clearly happy at being relieved of her cooking duties, Julie says: ‘If you cook for me every night, we could make love every night.’ ‘But I don’t want to make love every night,’ I protest, somewhat alarmed. [ed: of course you wouldn’t. men generally prefer making nonstop love to attractive women.]

‘I thought all men did?’ she asks ‘All men who are 17,’ I inform her. Which brings up a question. How often should the ideal husband sleep with his wife?

The average married couple has sex just about twice a week, according to several recent surveys (a statistic probably skewed by the randy just-married 22-year-olds).

Is that what the woman wants? Or is it some compromise? It’s not clear. ‘How often is ideal for you?’ I ask. ‘Once a week sounds good.’ She pauses. ‘Don’t write that down.’

I wonder if you could be honest about just how much better or worse was your sex life while you snapped to attention at your wife’s every beck and call? I suspect not.

And my male friends are full of resentment because their wives are forever saying ‘why can’t you be more like AJ?’

The worst advice your male friends could take would be to be more like you.

But the lessons I’ve learned have, without a doubt, improved our marriage.

A one month sociological contrivance which ended with your wife “in a mood” as she harangued you to raise the volume on the TV without using the remote she had in hand is not evidence for marital improvement.

Unfortunately, they have torpedoed my comfy, ignorant existence for ever.

On the contrary, you’ve never been more comfortably ignorant.

Readers may ask, if A.J. Jacobs is the Moloko Plus of betatude, how is it he was able to snag a wife and bear children with her? Simple, reader. He snagged her younger, slightly hotter self when he was insubordinate, slobby, and annoying. And he keeps her because she is unattractive. When your wife has even fewer options on the sexual market than you do, then you can be all the post-modern enlightened feminist bitchboy you want to be without much consequence.

But not zero consequence. Excessive betaness has been known to push even wives well past their expiration dates into a loveless, sexless torpor. I think Mr. Jacobs knows this deep in his soul, which is why he’ll go back in no time to being the slobby, annoying, inconsiderate husband his wife fell in love with. Which is how god intended.

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Posted in Beta | 336 Comments

336 Responses

  1. on June 19, 2010 at 3:57 pm Gorbachev

    Damn, Roissy,

    I read that a while ago. I was putting it out of my mind. You just had to comment on it, right?

    Gets me right in the ol’ personal memory hole, that one does.

    LikeLike


  2. on June 19, 2010 at 3:58 pm Konkvistador

    I wonder what will go through the heads of these nearly blind baby boomer male feminists as they will squint in confusion at a world turned into a matriarchal ghetto where women have no pity, no sympathy and no femininity.

    Come to think of it, they will probably blame younger men for not worshiping the immaculate lady St. Vaj and corrupting her pure and innocent soul. He will think in his diapers:

    “These young boys are horrible. Fortunately we now have proper legislation to protect them. How did we ever get along when men had the right to say no to a proposal of marriage ”

    (he will completley miss the fact that the legislation by that point won’t make any mention of marriage just alimony).

    LikeLike


  3. on June 19, 2010 at 4:03 pm Ryan

    If it all boils down to biomechanical forces and neurochemistry, who the fuck cares what this man does? How do you jump from description to prescription?

    It doesn’t matter. Shit happens, right?

    LikeLike


  4. on June 19, 2010 at 4:13 pm Dat_Truth_Hurts

    Man, doing everything a woman says for a month? I can’t comprehend doing what a women says anytime. Guess that why I am not married yet.

    And banging multiple younger women. Well, at least when I get back from this shithole desert deployment.

    LikeLike


  5. on June 19, 2010 at 4:27 pm Thor

    From the text:
    “Before the experiment, I probably thought I was doing 45 per cent of what needed to be done – it turned out it was more like 20 per cent.”

    One of the many things he got wrong was to accept
    HIS WIFE’s definition of “what needed to be done”.

    If the wife defines the “needed” to keep a mommy-dearest
    style house, then, yes, the task of maintaining it will become
    as burdensome as you make it. Work expands to fill the
    time available for its completion, dixit C. Northcote Parkinson.

    Thor

    LikeLike


  6. on June 19, 2010 at 4:43 pm Will

    Ryan,

    It’s not as though biological reductionism is incompatible with egalitarianism, struggle against certain types of social heirarchy, etc. anyway. Roissy’s little rant about the “universal system of production” or whatever is something Marx would probably cosign.

    LikeLike


  7. on June 19, 2010 at 4:44 pm MrLomez

    Long time, first time…

    I think someone (Roissy? Bernard Chapin?) needs to attempt an evo-psych explanation for this kind of betatude. It’s beyond simple social conditioning, multi-culti liberal-feminism, or whatever non-biological determinate we testicle-retaining men assume these geldings suffer from. These men must serve some evolutionary purpose, no? There must be certain women who do actually prefer and benefit from the AJ Jacobs’s of the world.

    My best guess is that the waifish, emo kind of girls, girls who are damaged goods, somewhat hyposexual, etc. — Ellen Page, the girls in Ghost World, every single barista at the coffee shop near my apartment with their black makeup and ear gauges and stony condescension to my otherwise charming advances — rely on betas for nurturing, for restoration in their faith in men (since their father’s undoubtedly beat or neglected them). I wonder, also, if betas are more likely to seek out partners outside of their group (race), and and in so doing increase genetic variation within a given population.

    I could be very wrong about both of those theories, but I don’t think we can simply dismiss betatude as a passing, cultural phenomenon.

    LikeLike


  8. on June 19, 2010 at 4:50 pm Tarl

    mother of our three boys Jasper, six, and three-year-old twins Zane and Lucas

    Poor little bastards, seeing their dad reduced to an obedient sexless drone.

    LikeLike


  9. on June 19, 2010 at 4:51 pm xsplat

    After divorcing my wife I vowed to never chop brocolli again. You see, she demanded that I do my share.

    It left such a bitter taste in my mouth that the mere idea of it now makes me want to vomit.

    No woman demands anything from me anymore, and there no talk of equal share tolerated.

    That I ever bought the notion to begin with shows just how sick the west is, as a culture. I mean sick, as in mentally diseased.

    All cultures I’ve lived in have their various diseases. The notion of equality in the west is pernicious.

    LikeLike


  10. on June 19, 2010 at 4:52 pm xsplat

    My equal share is I make the money. Her equal share is she does whatever the hell I tell her to.

    LikeLike


  11. on June 19, 2010 at 4:56 pm xsplat

    One of the many things he got wrong was to accept
    HIS WIFE’s definition of “what needed to be done”.

    Exactly. Notice the difference between a male and female dorm? You want female style cleanliness and decorations, then clean and decorate, woman.

    LikeLike


  12. on June 19, 2010 at 4:57 pm sdaedalus

    I think the identity of the publication in which this article appears can’t be disregarded. I’ve been convinced for some time that the Daily Mail is actually black anti-feminist propaganda secretly funded by the Spearhead. Liz Jones couldn’t be real, surely?

    I also think it is significant that, in the previous article, he states that his wife gave him permission to have an affair with the nanny. I’m not so convinced that she doesn’t have someone on the side herself.

    He is a very very annoying man. However in his defence (and this is probably the only thing capable of saving his marriage) he did publish the bit about sex once a week even though she told him not to.

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  13. on June 19, 2010 at 5:02 pm sdaedalus

    Thought you lads might be interested in this too.

    This is an article detailing how AJ’s wife kicked him out of the bedroom for snoring.

    http://sleepeducation.blogspot.com/2010/05/author-and-human-guinea-pig-aj-jacobs.html

    I have no idea whether or not this occurred before or after the experiment above.

    LikeLike


  14. on June 19, 2010 at 5:54 pm greatbooksformen

    lzozlzlzolzlzlzozlzlozzlzlzozzl

    online dating is for loooooooooooooozers!!!!

    lzozlzlzlzlzlzlzlzzlzzlzozzllzozlzlzl

    you gotsa look at all da fake pictures hiding da fat and wrinkles and all teh fake profile bullshit

    in the future gbfm dating tie at lzozlzozozl media, the following useful infomrations will be included in da profile lzozllz

    1. how many times haaav u been asscocked?
    2. how many times has you gina been penerated by fingers, thumbs, weiners, dildos, and your own middle finger? lzozlzlzl there is no wrong answer but nice 2 know!
    3. how much do i have 2 pay on how many dates 2 da pussy that you already gave away 4 free in lotsa one night stands? lzozlzl
    4. instead of geting dinner caould i jus giv u da money and get my load gismed off outta my cocka on your stomach, as 4 me time is money and during diner i could be working for roissy’s blog creating sterling contenth lzozlzlzlzl
    5. like priscilla painton of simon and schuster and charlotte allen of teh weekly standard do you also have butthexual heroes who lie about tehir height and will you repeat the lies to me when i am splooging on you? because if so i will take my splooge lesewhere lzozlzlzl
    6. hafter spolooging on u can we talka bout austrian eocmonis and teh road to serfdom lzozlzozlz because then i will hang out for a while 4 sure!!

    i am writing the software 4 da site and i have this in it:

    $x = numberofasscocksessions.

    $realnumberofasscockingsessions = ($x+5) * 10

    so like if she puts in 5 asscocking sessions it will report teh true number of 100 lzozllzlzll!!

    5 of them were secretly taped without her conthent as the noecns like it, but that;s noit the question!!!

    i will also have this euqaition:

    100 – numberofonenightstands(girl) *10 = amount of cash 4 dinner i will pay to touch your pussy

    so if you’ve had only 9 one night stands then the maximum i am spending 2 but yhou dinner is $10 lzozlzozlzl so we can go 2 mccdonals

    also this

    100 – numberofonenightstands(girl) *10 = amount of time in minutes i will spend before touching your pussy or taking off lzozlzo

    100 – numberofonenightstands(girl) *10 = amount of time i will spend in minutes after touching your pussy before taking off lzozlzl

    so 9 one night stands is da limit and den it goes like dis

    10 minute introduction
    gizalizgizzzaalllizzlzozlozzlzolzozozogiziziiziz on your face
    10 minute 2 put on my shoes and coats and find my keys while fighting off your cats lzolzlzllzll

    as u can see this is a revolutionary new equation of eocnomics lzozlzlzl which will be published in all teh fiat journals of eocnomics and get me the nobel lzozlzl as i have finally figured out how money and property should flow in marriage these days lzozl which begins by saying “fuck da marriage!” and then uploading my eauqtion “gbfmapp” to yout iphone

    just you wait and see

    100 – numberofonenightstands(girl) *10 = amount of time i will spend in minutes after touching your pussy before taking off lzozlzl

    will be famouser than e = mc^2 as it is far more useful lzozlzlz

    LikeLike


  15. on June 19, 2010 at 5:54 pm xsplat

    Mr. L

    but I don’t think we can simply dismiss betatude as a passing, cultural phenomenon.

    The definition of beta, is one who is a follower and a donator of labor. The definition of Alpha is one who makes rules and receives an imbalanced proportion of group labor, or directly controls the labor of others.

    Women love love love betas, because betas love love love to be provider drones.

    Provider drones make for the most successful households. Successful households make for the most successful number of and status of kids.

    The problem is, some Alphas are sneaky fuckers, and will cuckold the beta-providers charge. This is another reason women love love love betas. Cause he won’t be much of a threat to her kid – whether it’s his or not. She’ll have him all twisted under her thumb, and he’ll still provide.

    Being the Alpha Cad is a high risk business. Very few can succeed at it. If we had a society of all cads, who would provide the nests? It would be weak. So groups that work towards keeping men beta are more successful than groups who openly foster the macho independent man. The trick for any group is to keep it a big fat secret that women prefer to fuck the cads.

    Don’t tell.

    LikeLike


  16. on June 19, 2010 at 5:55 pm Dat_Truth_Hurts

    That guy is a stupid fucking faggot.

    LikeLike


  17. on June 19, 2010 at 5:56 pm xsplat

    I want to say again that I’m against mandatory paternity testing. Betas need to be out-bred by cads. It’s getting WAAAYYYYYYY to beta out there.

    Due your social duty and cuckold a beta today.

    LikeLike


  18. on June 19, 2010 at 5:57 pm julian

    His wife isnt ugly, she isnt hot either. Looks like a typical east coast jew, a 5 or 6.

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  19. on June 19, 2010 at 5:58 pm askjoe

    Oh God, my eyes!!!!
    She is really fucking unattractive.

    he keeps her because she is unattractive. When your wife has even fewer options on the sexual market than you do, then you can be all the post-modern enlightened feminist bitchboy you want to be without much consequence.

    But still, as you’ve illustrated in BotM contests, the market for cooter is never zero. Any hag can always get some, even if it’s from an omega gardener or blinded by testosterone teen.

    LikeLike


  20. on June 19, 2010 at 5:58 pm ƒ(solar)

    This post’s writing was especially colorful and filled with power. If Roissy is even half the public speaker of his writing capability, he would make a fine politician/dictator. Also goes to show that good writers get laid – Balzac being one fine example of that and Roosh mentioned Marquez on his blog.

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  21. on June 19, 2010 at 6:06 pm ƒ(solar)

    xsplat, it’s nature vs nurture argument and I think that it has more to do with the society and the upbringing than parents. Sure, handsome genes might carry on the looks, but behavioral traits are learned. Compared to my father I’m a pussy and compared to my grandfather my father is a pussy, and yet a British girl told me that ‘There aren’t guys like you around here’.

    My personal opinion is that as anyone can be a genius with the right upbringing anyone can be at least a lesser alpha or greater beta.

    LikeLike


  22. on June 19, 2010 at 6:11 pm askjoe

    wait, so he got permission for an affair with the nanny? How did that go…

    LikeLike


  23. on June 19, 2010 at 6:12 pm sdaedalus

    good writers get laid

    Tell that to poor George Eliot, whose spouse jumped out the window on their wedding night rather than lie back & think of Middlemarch.

    LikeLike


  24. on June 19, 2010 at 6:12 pm xsplat

    “Also goes to show that good writers get laid – ”

    Good writing encompasses a host of mental powers. It is an art of persuasion. As an art, the bulk of it is craft, and a craft is honed through diligent attention. This craft seems like a gift to those who don’t practice it, much as glass blowing portraiture seems like a gift. Only the innate ability to write is a gift – any visible talent is always a result of diligent attention to ones craft.

    Some have called writing the ultimate art. If you can be good at that, you already are good at a great deal else.

    LikeLike


  25. on June 19, 2010 at 6:13 pm Anonymouses Anonymous

    Roissy, I nominate him as “beta FOR the month” as well as beta OF the month.

    LikeLike


  26. on June 19, 2010 at 6:13 pm sdaedalus

    @askjoe
    wait, so he got permission for an affair with the nanny? How did that go…

    She wasn’t interested.

    LikeLike


  27. on June 19, 2010 at 6:14 pm sdaedalus

    No self-respecting woman is ever interested in a man whose wife gives them permission to have an affair with her. This is like taking another woman’s leavings.

    LikeLike


  28. on June 19, 2010 at 6:21 pm julian

    Agree with Solar about Roissy’s writing in this piece. I think for the blog, the concrete details of pickup are the way to go but for the book something altogether different is required. Roissy could if he wanted to, elevate himself from a mere run of the mill PUA (what a waste of talent imo) into an actual writer of some stature. If I were Roissy I would in fact reject the PUA trappings and move into higher and more challenging realms. In the paragraph below shows shades of Henry Miller with nods to Houellebecq.

    “There is only estrogen, testosterone, eggs, and sperm. Those *are* the governing bodies of the world today. We have never lived in a world of harmonic convergence and ideologies, Mr. Jacobs. The world is an emergent phenomenon of the incessant, eternal quest for sex, Mr. Jacobs. It has been since man crawled out of the slime. And our children will live, Mr. Jacobs, what few of them are born, to see that… perfect world… in which there’s no lifelong monogamy, guaranteed paternity, or two parent families. One vast and ecumenical hedonism, for whom all men will work to serve a common erection, in which all men will hold a share of dystopia. All pleasures provided, all ejaculations immortalized, all desire sated.”

    LikeLike


  29. on June 19, 2010 at 6:21 pm Tim

    This post was written by Virgil Kent.

    LikeLike


  30. on June 19, 2010 at 6:23 pm Thor

    @xsplat
    “Being the Alpha Cad is a high risk business. Very few can succeed at it. If we had a society of all cads, who would provide the nests? It would be weak. So groups that work towards keeping men beta are more successful than groups who openly foster the macho independent man. The trick for any group is to keep it a big fat secret that women prefer to fuck the cads.”

    Yup, for an example of “if we had a society of all cads,
    who would provide the nests” see Islam for the last
    hundred years, maybe much more. This society CANNOT
    self support, but needs to live by plunder. The religion
    is optimized to plundering caravans (although ships
    off of Somaliland will do as a substitute). Of course,
    if you happen to sit on an ocean of oil, life can be
    pretty good – for a while.

    Thor

    LikeLike


  31. on June 19, 2010 at 6:23 pm greatbooksformen

    on the gbfm dating site where chix upload their pictures there wil be a notice:

    please please oh please upload current pictures lozlzl please do not upload all the texting pictures the noeoncs made you send inh high school when you were younger hotter tighter when u wer ein ur having fun stage and giving away your pussy for free or even buying dudes beers 2 touch it as the neocns told you that would mepower you alozlzlzozl and u beleived it zlzozlzll

    please please oh please upload current pictures lozlzl i do not want my dating site 2 get sued when my brothaas drive seventy miles 2 touch your pussy and find a fat hog lzozlzlzllzlz instead of the hottie hott hottie hot hottie hott hottie lzozlzlzll omg abnd there they are seventy miles away form home and you’ve already made eye contact–should they deny ebing themeselves and just take off and leave ? HELL YEAH! she lied in her picture so now you’s gotta even the score and when she says, “hi are you joe bob?” go “no fucking way i am not joe bob as joe bob don’t do fatt piggy piggies lzozlzlzozozolzozzlo, but i think i saw him and he just left so you should go too bavcsued the bartender here is hot and i just drove seventy miles and would like 2 talk 2 her in privae and dink a few drinks to get bakc the biuzz u just kille dby being a hogga hogga disnoest gogga hogga zlolzlzlzl”

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  32. on June 19, 2010 at 6:24 pm greatbooksformen

    ^^^ lozllzl i meant “sexting” pictures above lzozlzozlozllz

    “”the sexting pictures the noeoncs made you send” to debauch the culture and currency furtehr lzozlzlz and kill da fmaily zlozlzl

    LikeLike


  33. on June 19, 2010 at 6:35 pm JB

    Lolwut Xsplat?

    You make money for your girlfriend?

    I would not do that unless she were pregnant or raising my child. Quite the reverse actually.

    You don’t need to cuckold betas to eliminate them. We are all already the children of alphas. The proper concepts, nutrition, and social experience can bring out if not true alphadom at least very respectable manhood.

    Give the movement time to penetrate the consciousness of society’s male hierarchies. Most individual men may change slowly, but the cultural shift can still be rapid.

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  34. on June 19, 2010 at 6:39 pm JB

    The only thing I owe a girl for sex, is Game.
    The only thing I owe a girl for faithfulness, is love (as in loving affection, not star-crossed romance).
    That’s reciprocity.

    Ergo, if my game is better than her sex, she should be paying me to make up the difference.

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  35. on June 19, 2010 at 6:43 pm xsplat

    “You make money for your girlfriend? ”

    When I have a live in, she works full time for me in household and secretarial duties. As the entrepreneur and manager, it’s my money. She is in my house, my money allows for the whole setup. I make the money. She does whatever I tell her to.

    I have a live in now, who works full time doing whatever I say. I’ll be sending her back to my other house next month, as now that my health is improving, it’s time to create the physical compulsion to date.

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  36. on June 19, 2010 at 6:46 pm Thor

    “My personal opinion is that as anyone can be a genius with the right upbringing anyone can be at least a lesser alpha or greater beta.”

    Nonsense. You cannot become a genius by the proper
    upbringing alone. You cannot create an Einstein,
    or a Feynman (or a Richard Strauss or a Mozart)
    by “training”. Training helps only if you start with
    a kid with the right genes.

    BUT, you can probably create a greater beta, or a lesser
    alpha. Problem is, when this is the norm, there might not be
    nearly enough betas to do the hard work of keeping
    society going.

    Thor

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  37. on June 19, 2010 at 6:50 pm xsplat

    Solar, if it were true that there the sexual mating strategies of provider vs cad are not genetically handed down, nor even the psychological profiles that lead to such propensities, then women wouldn’t have such a strong sexual reaction to the cad.

    Nope, cad personality traits are also genetic. If you institute mandatory personality testing, you will lessen the preponderance of cad personality traits.

    Not a good thing. Cads are very important to society. We are the ones who succeed – no matter the rules.

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  38. on June 19, 2010 at 6:59 pm ƒ(solar)

    I would argue against Feynman in your list. He was encouraged by his father to tinker around and learn about the world (he has talked about that both on videos and his memoirs). If I remember correctly, then Strauss and Mozart also were encouraged by their parents – so genes had their part, but they didn’t reach their goals with sheer talent.

    What’s wrong with greater betas? I imagine a greater beta to be a man with a decent job that has some experience with women and is successful maintaining his LTR/marriage. He would be the best of both worlds, at the same time keeping society going progress wise and keeping himself, his kids and his wife happy.

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  39. on June 19, 2010 at 7:23 pm sdaedalus

    @papoose
    This post was written by Virgil Kent.

    No, it is too literate.

    See Julian’s comment above

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  40. on June 19, 2010 at 7:25 pm sdaedalus

    if Roissy is even half the public speaker of his writing capability, he would make a fine politician/dictator

    One step at a time. Even Obama had to get the book out first.

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  41. on June 19, 2010 at 7:35 pm Höllenhund

    “I want to say again that I’m against mandatory paternity testing. Betas need to be out-bred by cads. It’s getting WAAAYYYYYYY to beta out there.”

    I’d say the overall situation is more complicated. There are two opposing forces at work.

    First of all, alphas probably have a much lower mortality rate today than in earlier eras when many of them died in wars, accidents, workplace accidents, bar fights, murders etc. Life in the Western world is generally a lot safer now. There are no massive conventional wars, barbarian invasions, fewer work-related deaths etc. For this reason I’m sure we have a surplus of natural alphas in the West.

    However, we also have artifical betatization of otherwise healthy young men on a massive scale by the feminist system. I firmly believe that most men are BORN alpha males, i.e. the majority of them would never have problems getting girlfriends if they weren’t cut down, demoralized and betatized by sexual harassment laws, feminist indoctrination in schools, idiotic dating advice by manginas (‘respect women and treat them like princesses’ etc.), feminist hysteria about the so-called rape culture etc.

    “The trick for any group is to keep it a big fat secret that women prefer to fuck the cads.”

    I guess that genie is, more or less, out of the bottle in the West – in my view, thankfully.

    I wouldn’t cuckold a beta. I think it makes more sense to spread the word among young men everywhere and by all means that women prefer to fuck alphas and have no misgivings about cuckolding their beta husbands, and that society would prefer to keep dutiful betas in the dark about this.

    Because the sooner this monstrous feminist-egalitarian-multicultural system collapses, the better.

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  42. on June 19, 2010 at 7:35 pm xsplat

    Mandatory personality testing – ha! What a Freudian slip.

    Yes, MPT=MPT. Don’t weed out the high risk thrill seeking rule breaking bad boys! Oppose MPT!

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  43. on June 19, 2010 at 7:37 pm Bhruic

    Arthur Jensen’s speech works pretty well as a template.

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  44. on June 19, 2010 at 7:41 pm whiskey

    God how I loathe this attitude among older men. Guys age 60 or older exemplify this stuff — pedestalizing women and believing, actively, things about them that are not true.

    No woman with options would choose a beta, one of the changes in younger women is that they are deciding to have kids on their own with dominant A-hole Alphas rather than simply Beta spawn (or more likely, Alphas with betas fooled).

    The remnants of Victorian over-culture along with feminists spew out this garbage — and believe it rather than their lying eyes.

    Wife would have respected him more if he’d nailed the babysitter.

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  45. on June 19, 2010 at 7:49 pm Höllenhund

    “Cads are very important to society.”

    Betas are 10 times more important to a complex, technologically and economically advanced society than cads because you need betas to maintain it, not cads. Cads only enable moral decline and social dysfunction. Shoot them all in a ditch = society won’t suffer much as a result – well, OK, women will be unhappy. Disincentivize and marginalize the betas = civilization declines and eventually collapses.

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  46. on June 19, 2010 at 7:58 pm xsplat

    Hollenhund, you underestimate the value of the peronality traits that often go hand in hand with those that choose the cad lifestyle.

    Any society needs all classes of insect. You can’t just have worker drones, soldiers, and police class. You also need the artisan and bohemian classes.

    Bohemians like to fuck around and smoke weed. Get rid of them and your society will collapse from boredom. It will be like India – full of pencil dicked men of low or no libido.

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  47. on June 19, 2010 at 8:01 pm xsplat

    Oh, and the Cad personality traits overlap with many entrepreneurial traits. Risk taking, high drive, avoidance of rules, thinking outside the box, succeeding on ones own terms.

    You’d lose a war without cad genetic stock.

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  48. on June 19, 2010 at 8:01 pm Advocatus Diaboli

    Men who pedestal women are what keeps the shit feedback loop going.
    —

    Slightly OT

    My idea on what an ideal woman should be doing.. NSFW pics

    Once again, the pics are artistic but NSFW.

    http://dissention.wordpress.com/2010/06/19/women-in-the-kitchen-jun-19-2010/

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  49. on June 19, 2010 at 8:12 pm Advocatus Diaboli

    *S*

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  50. on June 19, 2010 at 8:12 pm Höllenhund

    “Any society needs all classes of insect.”

    Agreed – but what you are basically proposing is to marginalize and demoralize betas even further and strip them of opportunities to reproduce and thus remove their incentives to invest in civilization. How does that contribute to social balance?

    “You’d lose a war without cad genetic stock.”

    Yeah, because the USA and other Western nations are threatened by conventional war. LMAO!

    And the last time I checked, India didn’t collapse from boredom.

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  51. on June 19, 2010 at 8:20 pm xsplat

    To put in graphically, enforce MPT and in 100 generations you’ll have no more musicians capable of being another The Who.

    Beta drones are good for maybe 90 percent of an industrialized society, max. Probably better at less than 70. Too many and you’ll have too many soldiers, not enough generals.

    MPT aborts the generals before they are conceived.

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  52. on June 19, 2010 at 8:24 pm xsplat

    I’m not proposing marginalizing and demoralizing anyone. If a man wants to get a paternity test – let him!

    I’m saying if he’s too weak and stupid to raise his own kids, let evolution work things out.

    I trust evolution to sort things out, one way or the other. I think cuckolding is an important part of human society and evolution. Mess with that, and you’ll negative consequences, not just for society, but for human DNA.

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  53. on June 19, 2010 at 8:34 pm Höllenhund

    “To put in graphically, enforce MPT and in 100 generations you’ll have no more musicians capable of being another The Who.”

    You have proof that the mothers of The Who members cuckolded their husbands?

    Nevermind. Who gives a fuck about generals and musicians anyway? I happen to think that the possibility of permanently stripping all women of their ability to cuckold is 100 times more thrilling and exhilarating for the majority of men than any victorious war or great piece of music the future may have in store for them. It would certainly be a fitting act of retribution for aeons of amoral female manipulation, sluttishness and deceit. Who cares about being led into victorious battle by a modern-day Napoleon or listening to a great record when your whorish wife may cuckold you and then force you to subsidize her alpha bastard after divorce?

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  54. on June 19, 2010 at 8:45 pm polymath

    AD,

    Nice pics but you’d better not be asking for fried food.

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  55. on June 19, 2010 at 8:45 pm Höllenhund

    “I’m saying if he’s too weak and stupid to raise his own kids, let evolution work things out.”

    If I’m not mistaken, alphas cuckold because they have no willingness to commit to the woman they impregnate and help her raise the kids. In other words, they are UNFIT to properly RAISE their kids.

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  56. on June 19, 2010 at 8:46 pm xsplat

    Or, Holl, you could take PERSONAL responsility, and man up. And say fuck em to any man who can’t be bothered.

    Or maybe you feel an allegience and brotherhood with other men, akin to how women feel a sisterhood. I feel no such blind allegience to a sex. Let losers lose. Let winners win.

    I’ll help those who want to win win, to the best of my ability. People who don’t even want to? I don’t care.

    MANDATORY testing? No way. I’m more of eugenic bent. Fuck the brotherhood, fuck the sisterhood. Let men and boys be strong enough to demand their own testing. Or let them be cuckolded. By my sperm.

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  57. on June 19, 2010 at 8:53 pm Breeze

    “f(solar): My personal opinion is that as anyone can be a genius”

    – False

    “f(solar): with the right upbringing anyone can be at least a lesser alpha or greater beta.”

    – True

    “askjoe

    wait, so he got permission for an affair with the nanny? How did that go…”

    – I’m betting she called his bluff, knowing he wouldn’t have the balls to actually go through with it.

    “sdaedalus: “good writers get laid”

    Tell that to poor George Eliot, whose spouse jumped out the window on their wedding night rather than lie back & think of Middlemarch.”

    – I think the comment only pertains to male writers. Good male writers can get laid but writing does not improve a woman’s looks.

    “BUT, you can probably create a greater beta, or a lesser
    alpha. Problem is, when this is the norm, there might not be
    nearly enough betas to do the hard work of keeping
    society going.

    Thor”

    – Greater alpahs or lesser betas used to be the norm and they built civilisation. It used to take a hefty set of balls to be a man and raise a family back when life was tough and you had an entire family depending on you.

    “Höllenhund: However, we also have artifical betatization of otherwise healthy young men on a massive scale by the feminist system. I firmly believe that most men are BORN alpha males, i.e. the majority of them would never have problems getting girlfriends if they weren’t cut down, demoralized and betatized by sexual harassment laws, feminist indoctrination in schools, idiotic dating advice by manginas (‘respect women and treat them like princesses’ etc.), feminist hysteria about the so-called rape culture etc. ”

    – This is likely the case.

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  58. on June 19, 2010 at 8:56 pm xsplat

    I don’t think Alphas are always cads, nor cads always alphas. I’m suggesting that an important set of personality traits has a high correspondence to many traits often found in alpha cads.

    I already mentioned some of these.

    Some guys with these traits are also family men.

    I’m suggesting that one way these socially important personality traits get passed on is through cuckolding, and that removing cuckolding will have a noticeable effect on the preponderance of these personality traits.

    I’m also suggesting that being a good father is not a necessity for being a good citizen. Maybe some of the best citizens are cads who only breed through cuckolding. Could be. You might not like it – it might make you feel bad – but would you prefer to live in a country with no people who can be like The Who, or would you prefer to live in a chaotic land of sexual competition?

    Wild men who fuck around partly propogate their personality styles through cuckolding. We’d be worse off, as a group, without that method of procreation.

    Call it cool guy tax.

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  59. on June 19, 2010 at 9:00 pm sdaedalus

    @Breeze
    I think the comment only pertains to male writers. Good male writers can get laid but writing does not improve a woman’s looks.

    Well spotted. It’s nice to meet a man familiar with 19th century literature.

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  60. on June 19, 2010 at 9:07 pm Nork from Zork

    Funny OT:

    “[suchandsuch] reminds me of Len Deighton’s line about Chamberlain deciding to deal with Hitler as though he was a civilised man, since he had no idea how to deal with him if he was not.”

    Betas treat women as if they were civilized men, because they have no idea how to deal with them if they are not.

    And in fact, if Chamberlain had treated Hitler the way men ought to treat women, there would’ve been no war.

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  61. on June 19, 2010 at 9:21 pm polymath

    I just wrote this on another thread, but it is also relevant on this one:

    Any regular chore a woman wants done, a man will want done eventually, but he will wait until the situation is more advanced before doing it, because he generally has better things to do with his time. Therefore, the woman thinks she is initiating 100% of the housework and it would never get done without her, and she gets resentful.

    I’m not sure what the best solution for this is. My wife was logical enough to see this when I pointed it out, and she stopped nagging me about housework — instead she developed more tolerance, so that by the time she is bothered by something I am bothered by it too. (Of course she still does the large majority of the chores, even the “handyman” ones, but there are a few I like to do, and I never get nagged anymore.) But I don’t know how you would handle a wife who insists on her view of which chores should be done; obviously resentment must be short-circuited, but how?

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  62. on June 19, 2010 at 9:23 pm Vincent Ignatius

    I predict that she will divorce him after he earns a ton of money from the book. She’ll even use this experiment as proof that she contributed enough to his work to deserve half of his earnings.

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  63. on June 19, 2010 at 9:49 pm whiskey

    Some brilliant generals kept their societies, mostly Alpha A-holes, going for longer, but in the end failed: Hannibal, Lee, Napoleon.

    The “best” way to insure success in war is to have a society that is strong by being deep, able to absorb horrific losses and keep going, and able to produce lots of new generals and leaders where the old ones failed. The Romans lost 50K, 70K, and over 100K at Trebia, Lake Tresimene, and Cannae, before beating Hannibal. With very beta-ish guys like Fabius and Scipio leading them.

    A guy like Forrest may have single-handedly prolonged the Civil War two years, but beta men like Grant and Sherman made him irrelevant to the final outcome. All predicated on massive Northern industrial and manpower advantages.

    Does the West face warfare challenges today? Sure. Nuclear monopoly is gone — now even Pakistan, North Korea, and Iran have nukes. Shipping containers, unstable polygamous nations, Western feminized weakness, and Magical Alphas all combine to make the West a sitting duck.

    Magical Alphas offer to bedazzle and befriend the enemy into forgetting his own interests. Like Obama, Chamberlain, and many others, this never works out well for long. Other Alphas offer brilliant campaigns designed to magically break the enemy (Rommel, Hannibal, Napoleon) … and that never works out for long. Betas in power tend to view war as a piece of work, wood to be chopped. You win by killing so many of the enemy they cannot resist any longer. It may be quick, it may be slow, but its basically chopping wood.

    India’s problem is too many Alphas. The number and power of Alphas often directly correlates to the tribalism run amok and the poverty of the nation. Germany and Finland are beta central, but along with Switzerland are well-run, rich, and orderly places that are desirable (apart from weather) to live. Places like Goa or Bombay are Alpha multicultural, but are poverty stricken, violent, plague ridden (literally), disease laden, prone to raw sewage on the streets, and smell disgusting.

    Moreover, people are not insects. Lack of enough betas, and power among them, leads to things like Multiculturalism (a collapse of value in one’s ethnicity/race/traditions) and other obvious female oriented ideologies designed to maximize sexy bad boys to the detriment of everything else.

    Like Joran Van Der Sloot’s many, many girlfriends, women will gladly sacrifice anything for sexy dominance in men. Successful societies control this while allowing women maximum amount of freedom (so they are not merely ignorant breeding cows ala Islam) and doubling productivity, roughly.

    The Persians, the Sultans, and so on had vast slave armies … that fought miserably, like slaves. The Greeks and Europeans consistently out-fought them on home ground with far fewer because free men fight much harder than slaves.

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  64. on June 19, 2010 at 10:01 pm julian

    “His wife isnt ugly, she isnt hot either. Looks like a typical east coast jew, a 5 or 6.”

    Pictures of A.J. Jacob’s wife here:
    http://www.esquire.com/features/mri-of-love-0609
    I’d say a 7 declining towards a 6 in her late 30s.

    [editor: oh man, no way. those gums. that nose. she’s a 4, maybe 5.]

    Here is a clearer picture of her.

    I retract my earlier statement, and agree with R on this one. She was a 6 in her prime, and is now a 4 or 5.

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  65. on June 19, 2010 at 10:04 pm Cap'n Bob

    Probably the most beta thing about Jacobs is how he mines his oh-so-interesting life for material:

    As a man, he shouldn’t make such a spectacle of himself.

    To think that this crap originated in Esquire – the magazine of Hemingway and Paul Gallico.

    “because their wives are forever saying ‘why can’t you be more like AJ?’”

    But in their hearts, they’re relieved that they are not married to such a man. It’s amazing how women will lie about what they really want.

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  66. on June 19, 2010 at 10:05 pm Cap'n Bob

    Whiskey,

    There was nothing Beta about Sherman. Or Grant for that matter.

    That’s not to denigrate the prowess of southern cavalry.

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  67. on June 19, 2010 at 10:09 pm Cap'n Bob

    Julian,

    Here is a clearer picture of her.

    It looks like: At Home with Andy Bernard.

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  68. on June 19, 2010 at 10:14 pm julian

    “Probably the most beta thing about Jacobs is how he mines his oh-so-interesting life for material:

    As a man, he shouldn’t make such a spectacle of himself.”

    It is not beta to mine your life for writing material. The highest echelon of men have used their experiences as “material”. Ever read the writings of Casanova or De Sade ? Also, Samuel Johnson, Rousseau, orMarcus Aurelius, really the list is endless…

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  69. on June 19, 2010 at 10:19 pm Cap'n Bob

    Julian,

    Never read de Sade. Bit too exotic in his depravity.

    My point is this: A J Jacobs is none of those men. He is neither a celebrated libertine, or a great writer, philosopher or man of action.

    Instead, he devises methods of humiliating himself, and then writes books and articles based on this. That’s what makes him beta.

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  70. on June 19, 2010 at 10:22 pm johnny five

    It’s amazing how women will lie about what they really want.

    this is not the correct angle from which to view the problem.

    “lie” implies intent and consciousness, neither of which is fully present when typical women make such claims.
    the same can, and should, be said of many men who ostensibly place such high value on virginity.

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  71. on June 19, 2010 at 10:22 pm Cap'n Bob

    “Instead, he devises methods of humiliating himself, and then writes books and articles based on this. That’s what makes him beta.”

    That said – if that gets him enough money to re-attract his wife, or a fetching mistress, then I stand corrected.

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  72. on June 19, 2010 at 10:35 pm Esau

    ” the paragraph below shows shades of Henry Miller with nods to Houellebecq”

    That’s not writing, it’s just typing.

    Seriously, ripping off and re-purposing Paddy Chayefsky is no great trick and doesn’t prove much, imo. The fact that Ned Beatty, more typically typecast as a shlumpf-and-a-half, could do the delivery is testimony to power and rhythm of the language itself.

    If you’re going to steal a car, it might as well be a luxury sports coupe; but driving it doesn’t mean you could have built it.

    [editor: consider it a tribute. network was one of my favorite movies.]

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  73. on June 19, 2010 at 10:40 pm sss

    No one here noticed that most of this post was taken from the film Network?

    Still clever how he changed the words around.

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  74. on June 19, 2010 at 10:41 pm sss

    Shit, beaten ^^^

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  75. on June 19, 2010 at 10:45 pm The Truth

    on June 19, 2010 at 4:52 pmxsplat
    My equal share is I make the money. Her equal share is she does whatever the hell I tell her to.

    Gold.

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  76. on June 19, 2010 at 11:03 pm Esau

    “[editor: consider it a tribute. network was one of my favorite movies.]”

    Yes, as I said, if you’re going to steal then you should steal the best. Props for good taste! It’s a bit OT, or so it might seem at first, but I’ll take any opportunity to celebrate Network , which is a fabulous achievement front to back, so polished in every detail — don’t forget that Beatrice Straight took home the Oscar for Best Supporting Actress even though she appears in only one scene. So many riveting performances! so many quotable lines! and it’s so hard to explain to young people today why its prophecy was considered so shocking at the time.

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  77. on June 19, 2010 at 11:13 pm julian

    Wow, I could see why R used that portion from Network as a template, brilliant screenwriting !

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  78. on June 19, 2010 at 11:13 pm The Rational Male

    “[editor: oh man, no way. those gums. that nose. she’s a 4, maybe 5.]”

    Scroll down to the “nudie” pic and read the text next to it.

    Her titties were hanging down to her bellybutton on her honeymoon.

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  79. on June 19, 2010 at 11:23 pm PRCalDude

    The Tribe is really on a roll the past couple of weeks.

    I’m going to go ahead and declare Rosin and Jacobs Bad For The Jews.

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  80. on June 19, 2010 at 11:25 pm The Rational Male

    “Here is a clearer picture of her.
    http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2010/05/30/article-1282729-09AFE666000005DC-864_468x429.jpg”

    Give her a pointy hat and a broomstick and she’d have the perfect Halloween costume.

    Makes me thankful that I have the ability to attract pretty girls.

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  81. on June 19, 2010 at 11:28 pm PRCalDude

    She looks like she drank a bucket of hydrochloric acid.

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  82. on June 19, 2010 at 11:46 pm walawala

    @ Roissy:

    “”How many times a week did she agree to fuck you during this experiment in self-emasculation? Was it more or fewer times than typical? Perhaps you reveal the answer in your article:””

    This excerpt hit home for me and was the reason and the defining aspect of “Game”.

    The struggle for “control” is the catalyst for the sexual tension that defines the male/female relationship.

    Elsewhere, Roissy has written “Err on the side of asshole”.

    The reason the “neg” works is because it sets into motion that tension.

    The bridge to Alpha-ness requires crossing that crocodile-filled river of shit-tests without looking down and getting vertigo.

    Sometimes when I “game” starting with the teasing and negs I feel bad.

    But I hold off on caving into the default position of apologizing for my asshole repartee because a strange thing usually happens.

    The target realizes at some point that the negs, the teasing, the kino, the push-pull, the “gaming” are part of a role-play.

    Some tell-tale signs it’s working:

    “Wow you are a hard-ass”

    “Ohhhhh…sooooo mean…” Etc…

    I had previously thought I was alpha, but I realize that I was probably greater beta.

    Now I’m moving towards alpha by avoiding the temptation to break state and play it straighter.

    If I’m doing it right, she’ll start to fall into line…much the same way the guy in this article submitted to his wife’s demands.

    If anyone doubts the effectiveness of game, this article makes the case.

    The minute a guy starts to submit and supplicate, he’ll never generate sexual tension necessary for maintaining hand in the dynamic.

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  83. on June 20, 2010 at 12:56 am samseau

    Someone should just put that guy out of his misery.

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  84. on June 20, 2010 at 1:07 am Word Around the Campfire – the Father Knows Best edition « Hidden Leaves

    […] Citizen Renegade: Women Don’t Want You to Remember Everything About Them, The End of Beta Providers, and God’s Perfect Beta […]

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  85. on June 20, 2010 at 1:28 am julian

    Ex- gf game advice.

    What is the best course to take if a man is contacted by the “the one” who shattered his notions of romantic love ? The break-up with this ex-gf indirectly led me to Roissy’s writings. She is a good woman, never cheated, 25 yo, a solid 7. She is Greek, her father an alpha who ignored her for much of her life and threw money at her to make up for it. We grew apart due to a long distance relationship that brought out the worst beta tendencies in me (this was pre game) and ended the relationship.

    My esteem for her is high as she holds traditional notions of male/female roles, is not an attention whore, and rejects feminism. We have broken it off and reconciled many times over, due to the distance factor and the passionate nature of our relationship (we were together for over 4 years).

    We broke up (officially) over a year ago. I have a new-gf who I have now been with for over 6 mos. Great girl, same level of attractiveness as my ex, but in terms of raw chemistry she does not measure up. During this time I would still speak w my ex. This was a bad move as I never was able to rid myself of my feelings for her in spite of me acquiring a new gf. Last time I spoke with her (over 2 months ago) I asked if she still had feelings for me. She said “No”, so I told her that there was no reason for us to continue talking.

    Since then, she has called me, texted me and I have not responded. Today she sends me this.

    “How is life treating you? I haven’t been able to reach you lately. Would you prefer me to not contact you? In my head, we’re always connected somehow, so even if we’re not talking, know that, and know that I want all good things for you, all the time. ”

    How do I respond ? The truth is I still have feelings for her. Although you could chalk this up to one-itis, I would call it rational one-itis. Primarily, because her fundamental worldview, age, attractiveness, number of partners, etc lines up with what is espoused on this blog as the ideal in a mate.

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  86. on June 20, 2010 at 1:43 am Philosopher

    She smiles like a bulldog – too much gum.

    @PRCalDude
    “The Tribe is really on a roll the past couple of weeks.”

    Are you familiar with Cal State Long Beach professor Kevin MacDonald?

    Wiki:

    “Jews conspire to out-compete non-Jews for resources while undermining the power and self-confidence of the white majorities in Europe and America whom he insists Jews seek to disposess.”

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_B._MacDonald

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  87. on June 20, 2010 at 1:52 am Thor

    “Here is a clearer picture of her.

    I retract my earlier statement, and agree with R on this one. She was a 6 in her prime, and is now a 4 or 5.”

    Numbers? Hell, I’d rather be with a barracuda, or a
    carrion eater. Even “cigstash – 1” from a year or more
    back looked like a normal if fairly ugly human being.

    These people both look like Martians!

    Thor

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  88. on June 20, 2010 at 1:59 am Aurini

    “If I were Roissy I would in fact reject the PUA trappings and move into higher and more challenging realms. In the paragraph below shows shades of Henry Miller with nods to Houellebecq.”

    Hear hear! I’ve picked up a few good one-liners and manoeuvres from Roissy’s writing, but the thing that keeps me coming back is his insight onto the human condition, and how sex is such a fundamental part of politics and economics (amongst other things).

    I could see him writing an excellent book that was a mix of Evo Psych, observations on people’s attitudes, and political breakdown of current culture.

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  89. on June 20, 2010 at 2:01 am Lemmy

    AJ Jacobs is a great reporter/writer. He and Louis Thoreaux are two of my favorite journalists. I think once a man has an innate high IQ or has attained a certain level of self reflection it is perfectly acceptable behaviour to act slightly beta, and can even be beneficial for someone with a lesser IQ to mimic. I haven’t dissected my thoughts enough to expand upon this idea, but to me this is comparable to calling Socrates beta because he willingly drank hemlock.

    That begs the question, is it possible to be alpha without dumbing down? Is it beta to act intelligent? I do know that even Einstein was “raking in the pussy”.

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  90. on June 20, 2010 at 2:16 am samseau

    “How do I respond ? The truth is I still have feelings for her. Although you could chalk this up to one-itis, I would call it rational one-itis. Primarily, because her fundamental worldview, age, attractiveness, number of partners, etc lines up with what is espoused on this blog as the ideal in a mate.”

    Wanna really know if she loves you, man?

    Continue the silent treatment for several more months, at least two but no more than six. Then start talking again once you get a good opportunity, or just send a random text that’s totally unrelated to your breakup but would catch her interest and see how she responds. If she’s in love she’ll be eager to talk.

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  91. on June 20, 2010 at 2:20 am Tupac Chopra

    julian:

    You need to ask yourself what it is you truly want. Are you a one-woman man? You want an LTR? If so, use your newfound knowledge of game to win her back as your slave — her submissive deference to your alpha dominance. You could even use your current GF as social proof. OTOH, if you feel you have not made sufficient strides in ascending the mastery of the dodecahedron, this could blow up in your face if feelings are involved. I notice that as recently as two months ago she denied that she still had feelings for you. That’s a bad sign. She might still perceive you as beta, in which case you might want to put her on the backburner for a while.

    On the third hand, if you just want to get your dick wet, you could just fuck both of them. Win-win.

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  92. on June 20, 2010 at 2:20 am Tupac Chopra

    Are you familiar with Cal State Long Beach professor Kevin MacDonald?

    Wiki:

    “Jews conspire to out-compete non-Jews for resources while undermining the power and self-confidence of the white majorities in Europe and America whom he insists Jews seek to disposess.”

    Cannon wept.

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  93. on June 20, 2010 at 2:24 am Tupac Chopra

    Lemmy:

    That begs the question, is it possible to be alpha without dumbing down?

    In the Old Days, or in the Third World, above average* intelligence is viewed as a desirable survival trait.

    In America, it is viewed as an indulgence, in the service of non-alpha (er, non *sexual*-alpha) goals. Sure, there are the captains of industry who have lots of cred but it doesn’t parlay into pussy.

    In Femicunt America, those above the STSV need to dumb it down somewhat to avoid scaring the prey away.

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  94. on June 20, 2010 at 3:19 am julian

    “You need to ask yourself what it is you truly want. Are you a one-woman man? You want an LTR? If so, use your newfound knowledge of game to win her back as your slave — her submissive deference to your alpha dominance. You could even use your current GF as social proof.”

    I find LTR’s is where I get the most quality out of life, so yes I am a serial monogamist. My question is practical in nature. Do I respond to her ” do you not want me to contact you anymore “? And if I do, what do I say. Or do I continue the silent treatment per Samseau ?

    I will say this, I am in no hurry to win her back right away. I am confident that my memory will not soon be forgotten due to the torrid ferocity of our relationship. What I am concerned with is how do I slowly but surely ascend back to “alpha” in her eyes ? There was a time that I had hand in this relationship, but the fear of loss brought out the beta in me. Thanks to game I now know where I fucked up, I just want to know how to regain hand. Even if we don’t get back together, for me there would be satisfaction in knowing that her lasting memory of me be alpha rather than beta.

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  95. on June 20, 2010 at 3:31 am walawala

    @Julian You wrote

    “”“How is life treating you? I haven’t been able to reach you lately. Would you prefer me to not contact you? In my head, we’re always connected somehow, so even if we’re not talking, know that, and know that I want all good things for you, all the time. ”

    How do I respond ? The truth is I still have feelings for her. Although you could chalk this up to one-itis, I would call it rational one-itis. Primarily, because her fundamental worldview, age, attractiveness, number of partners, etc lines up with what is espoused on this blog as the ideal in a mate.””

    I have been in this situation.

    This is a weird push-pull.

    I had a very bad break up with a girl who basically had a melt-down one day on the phone…crying, drama etc etc, I said I never want to see her after this she’s too nuts.

    A year passes…I get a similar message to yours.

    “hi my friends are coming to your city, where should I take them blah blah blah”

    Excuse for reconnection.

    I take the bait, figure, I can game her and bang her again.

    We meet up…more gaming. My goal is to bang her again.

    Somehow…it doesn’t quite work out that way.

    She comes over for dinner recently…her idea. More game, kino, back to where we were talk.

    Nothing happens.

    I think it was her way of trying to get hand after I dumped her.

    Stupid mistake on my part.

    Let sleeping dogs lie.

    The advice from Tupac of keeping silent is solid. See where this is leading.

    But if you’ve got something good. I wouldn’t go back, I’d be looking forward.

    Nice ego boost for you. She still thinks of you..whatever. But don’t fall into that trap that brought you to game.

    Also, I’m more cautious now about number closing chicks who seem interested if I know I might see them again.

    I figure why be so eager and cliche? let them work for it.

    As you can see from your situation, women don’t “forget” about you after you break up or if they flake or whatever.

    They’re always thinking about you. The question is, how to maintain the upper hand.

    Look forward not back. Don’t get sucked into vortex of nostalgia, then blow it with both chicks.

    The transition to alpa takes work and can actually be tiring. But game is a journey, not a destination

    It will help lead you to where you want to go, but it won’t be the last step.

    Re-read the “Commandments of Poon”.

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  96. on June 20, 2010 at 3:37 am daveg

    Interesting take by Kevin MacDonald.

    What is also interesting is that I doubt anything like this would fly in Israel, where the guys act like complete chauvinist a-holes.

    You will never see more short people trying to act macho than in Israel. It is actually kind of amusing.

    I really think articles like this are only for “goy” consumption, either on a conscious or subconscious level.

    Also, the most annoying thing about this guy is that he think someone else would be interested in his domestic life. It is like watching someone else’s home movies. Painfully boring.

    And BTW, Iran does not have nukes, despite Whiskey’s rambling statements to the contrary. The rest of his views should be taken with equal skepticism.

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  97. on June 20, 2010 at 3:54 am Tupac Chopra

    I find LTR’s is where I get the most quality out of life, so yes I am a serial monogamist. My question is practical in nature. Do I respond to her ” do you not want me to contact you anymore “? And if I do, what do I say. Or do I continue the silent treatment per Samseau ?

    If your Game knowledge was solid, you could seduce her back right now, but I get the feeling you might not be at that stage yet. Better to wait. Of course, you run the risk of her finding someone else. OTOH, as long as she doesn’t fall in love and get married, you have some time to let things simmer for a while.

    If you honestly, in your heart of hearts, feel you can’t regain hand, or be seen as alpha in her eyes, simply let her know you think she’s a great gal, but that you have moved on. Keep the backchannels open, but only for insignificant pings. Do no under any circumstances get into “deep” discussions about “us”. Keep things casual.

    If you find yourself growing bored with your current GF at some point in the future, you could use that opportunity to ping your ex and see where she is at.

    Now that I think about it, this is all pretty advanced if you are completely new to Game. I don’t want to give you advice you might pounce on inappropriately.

    I’m drunk now so hopefully somebody else can give you more targeted advice.

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  98. on June 20, 2010 at 3:55 am Tupac Chopra

    Thanks to game I now know where I fucked up, I just want to know how to regain hand. Even if we don’t get back together, for me there would be satisfaction in knowing that her lasting memory of me be alpha rather than beta.

    In that case the best you can do is be alpha with your current GF and let her see it. At least that way you can walk away with your head held high.

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  99. on June 20, 2010 at 3:57 am Tupac Chopra

    daveg:

    I really think articles like this are only for “goy” consumption, either on a conscious or subconscious level.

    I would like to hear Cannon’s take on goyish kopf.

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  100. on June 20, 2010 at 4:07 am johnny five

    sdaedalus, way up there: It’s nice to meet a man familiar with 19th century literature.

    there’s a nonzero chance he’s confusing george eliot with george sand
    in which case his point would still stand

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  101. on June 20, 2010 at 4:15 am Höllenhund

    Unlike Whiskey, I’m willing to cut Western women SOME slack. It’s not like they are purposefully speeding up moral decline with their sexual choices because they WANT to live in a violent, ignorant, chav-infested matriarchal ghetto. Most of them don’t want to live among chavs in a place where street violence is rampant and women are treated like shit. They aren’t happy to see civilizational decline because they want to live in a stable society where men care for them.

    I think it’s rather that most young women are clueless about male sexuality and simply don’t understand cause and effect very well. They want to have sex with alphas while shunning betas and they will do exactly that if they can – in other words, they want the sexual freedom that their female ancestors were deprived of, which is understandable. They also refuse to be judged by their sexual promiscuity and they are angry if men don’t treat them as LTR material because of that. They think it’s ‘unfair’. On the other hand, they want to get an alpha to commit to them by giving them sex and they are sad when they fail. They get married with beta males and then they are angry and resentful when said males fail to dominate and make them wet. And on the top of all this, they want the nanny state to prop them up by DV laws, sexual harassment laws, female-friendly divorce laws, AA, welfare etc.

    I think what most women genuinely don’t understand is that they are encouraging exactly the types of male behaviour that a) they find revolting b) are causing social decline:

    – alphas pumping and dumping while avoiding commitment
    – resentful betas refusing to protect and pedestalize women, basically avoiding any contact with them
    – men under-investing in society by refusing to work the hardest they can plus avoiding marriage

    They just never connect the dots.

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  102. on June 20, 2010 at 4:43 am Cauthon

    @Julian

    I don’t think any guy really knows what goes through girls’ heads in situations like this. Girls seem to have a hard time letting go of men who they’ve had long histories with. I’ve been in a similar situation with a girl.

    She re-initiated contact, so she wants to be back in your life for some reason.

    My suggestions: stay aloof. Respond to her texts with indifference at first, like “its fine” or “doesnt matter.” When she continues to text (and I bet the house she will), then throw in some cocky funny bullshit.

    If you meet up with her, get alcohol involved. Any feelings she has for you will be sure to surface after a few stiff drinks.

    Get rid of the one-itis attitude; you only have it because she’s your longest LTR.

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  103. on June 20, 2010 at 4:57 am xsplat

    Regarding getting back together with exs who’ve dumped their men, does that ever happen?

    Within the first months (sometimes year or more), you still have some lingering connection. As long as the man wants the woman back, she’s not likely to come back under favorable terms to the man. And as soon as he is truly over her and no longer wants her back, enough time will have passed that they have both moved on. Eventually all the chemistry will have faded entirely. Within 4 years the both of you will only have memories, but no more feelings in your body for each other.

    I just don’t see that in real life men get back together for more than sporadic fucking before the breakup is complete. Whatever lead to the breakup caused a permanent and irrevocable break – a needed dynamic between the man and woman was permanently shattered. She was capable of acting independently. You don’t regain hand from a situation like that – better to own the pain, know that in 6 months time it will be mostly gone, and that within 1 or 2 years you’re emotional clock will timed and primed as again ready for deep bonds. In the meantime, all a man can do is be a man, which means knowing how to both be alone and how to work effectively to not be alone.

    Not running from that heartbreak back to the woman who can fix it is what you need in order to be a man. That’s your catch 22 right there.

    Has anyone any first or second hand stories that show otherwise? Women only get back together to settle for a provider – not a good idea for either the man or the woman.

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  104. on June 20, 2010 at 5:11 am Tupac Chopra

    Xsplat —

    It can happen if the betatude which caused the breakup was mild, or if the individuals in question were young and still growing into themselves.

    It happened to me (after a fashion), but the girl in question ended up marrying her beta provider suitor just as I had come into my own.

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  105. on June 20, 2010 at 5:24 am Paul

    OT

    Anyone here ever tried the primal diet? (primarily raw meat and eggs) In light of Roissy’s take on sex drive in women perhaps the way we nurture ourselves should be reviewed as well?

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  106. on June 20, 2010 at 5:32 am i have no name

    “They just never connect the dots.”

    They never can, cause and effect is just not for them.

    this is not the correct angle from which to view the problem.

    “lie” implies intent and consciousness, neither of which is fully present when typical women make such claims.
    the same can, and should, be said of many men who ostensibly place such high value on virginity.

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  107. on June 20, 2010 at 5:36 am xsplat

    Tupac, I’m not even sure if women break only because the man was too beta. Sometimes they’ll leave James Dean to find a secure provider with a favorable passport.

    Just saying, once it’s got that far, its gone too far. I’ve not heard of stories otherwise. She doesn’t view him as either alpha enough or as secure enough, or as the right combination. She became capable of leaving – his hypnotism lost power. I’ve never heard of that hypnotic power regaining enough strenght to do any more than flicker the flame before its totally extinguished.

    We call it after breakup sex. We don’t call it getting back together. We would, if it happened – but I don’t see it happening.

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  108. on June 20, 2010 at 5:44 am RevoRob

    As usual, Roissy is right on the money with this one.

    This whole issue brings up a few things that never fail to amaze me………
    a) It is nearly unbelievable the sheer number of feminist males (I won’t say men as no real man believes in feminism) who will not only put up with but actually support the very feminist mantra that actively deminishes them. My message to all feminist males is: “For fuck’s sake, grow some balls and be a real man for once”.
    b) It seems that feminists and weak, spineless men are drawn to each other like gravity. Put a feminist in a room with 100 real men and one weak, feminist male and I guarantee you, the two will be drawn together like a force of nature. Not that I mind. If this keeps idiot feminists away from me, good!
    c) I can’t believe that any man would actually agree to what Jacobs did without a reciprocal experiment to follow. Seems pretty one sided to me. Still, if Jacobs wants to prove he has no balls, more power to him.
    d) Following up from point d), Jacobs has published an article that basically promotes to the whole word that he is a spineless, gutless and ball-less excuse of a male. Proving he is a pathetic excuse is one thing but why would he actually want to tell the whole world about it?
    e) Jacobs writes: “this has definitely made me appreciate how much my wife does around the home.” NEWSFLASH, Jacobs: work around the house is your wife’s fucking job. The only men who should be doing house work are either single or professional cleaners. Any man living with a woman who doesn’t do the house work is a wimpy beta (and possibly an omega).

    All in all, Jacobs has pretty much written a complete guide as to how a man can lose all respect in the eyes of his woman. Men wear the trousers and women do what the man says.

    The danger of Jacobs article this that it only serves to encourage the loopy feminists out there.

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  109. on June 20, 2010 at 5:54 am walawala

    @Cauthon

    “”My suggestions: stay aloof. Respond to her texts with indifference at first, like “its fine” or “doesnt matter.” When she continues to text (and I bet the house she will), then throw in some cocky funny bullshit.””

    Cauthon….bad advice. “It’s fine” and “doesn’t matter”= passive aggressive = beta.

    Don’t respond, her message is “beta bait”…..read about that in the various posts and some very good Roissy blogs here. She’s lonely, probably between guys, has some need to have her ego stroked so is contacting you.

    Don’t do it. If you didn’t give a shit then maybe you cold “game”…but the minute you start to become outcome dependent….you’re lost.

    When I’m outcome dependent…I’m off game. It goes downhill.

    xxxxx

    @Tupac

    “”If your Game knowledge was solid, you could seduce her back right now, but I get the feeling you might not be at that stage yet. Better to wait. Of course, you run the risk of her finding someone else. OTOH, as long as she doesn’t fall in love and get married, you have some time to let things simmer for a while.””

    Tupac…I’ surprised at this. I read your posts and find your advice excellent. But in this case, suggesting “YOUR RUN THE RISK OF HER FINDING SOMEONE ELSE”—that’s beta.

    If you’re alpha and you’re gaming her, whether there is someone else or not doesn’t matter.

    But Julian obviously cares so he’ll lapse into betatude the minute she starts to pull away.

    I had a situation where after 6 weeks of heavy pounding, Korean girl suddenly flakes, disappears…writes some nonsense about “Something aluring disappeared so fast”.

    I’m heartbroken—beta. Then she gets back in touch.. It’s push-pull…she won’t agree to meeting up etc etc. I’m confused. Of course it only goes downhill from there.

    It ended….badly for me.

    @Tupac

    “”I’m drunk now so hopefully somebody else can give you more targeted advice.””

    Oh….that explains it.

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  110. on June 20, 2010 at 6:33 am luvsic

    Good God, if she’s a 7 we have nothing to strive for

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  111. on June 20, 2010 at 8:05 am wife looks like a dog

    I can’t take anything this guy or his wife says seriously. I have no clue who this fucktard is, but a simple search of google reveals pictures of him and his revolting wife.

    What is hilarious is the pictures of this guy on this personal website and then the general pictures of him elsewhere. On his website, his photos are photoshopped so much he looks 20 years younger and actually looks like a human. In every other picture he looks 50 years old and like the biggest nerd in the world with yellow teeth.

    Even worse is his abhorrent looking wife. Barf. Puke. Vomit. I guess in a way it is good that guys like him actually think their wife is hot. If he had any self-awareness or common sense, he probably would have committed suicide a long time ago.

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  112. on June 20, 2010 at 8:06 am Thor

    @Höllenhund:
    “They also refuse to be judged by their sexual promiscuity and they are angry if men don’t treat them as LTR material because of that. They think it’s ‘unfair’. On the other hand, they want to get an alpha to commit to them by giving them sex and they are sad when they fail. They get married with beta males and then they are angry and resentful when said males fail to dominate and make them wet. And on the top of all this, they want the nanny state to prop them up by DV laws, sexual harassment laws, female-friendly divorce laws, AA, welfare etc.

    I think what most women genuinely don’t understand is that they are encouraging exactly the types of male behaviour that a) they find revolting b) are causing social decline:

    – alphas pumping and dumping while avoiding commitment
    – resentful betas refusing to protect and pedestalize women, basically avoiding any contact with them
    – men under-investing in society by refusing to work the hardest they can plus avoiding marriage

    They just never connect the dots.”

    Sorry about the long quote. I mostly agree but
    want to elaborate:

    Several issues here. Part of it is “the tragedy of the
    commons”. The actions that are good (however measured)
    for the individual are not necessarily good for society
    as a whole. Depending on the situation, many people,
    (both sexes) further their own goals first. No surprise,
    we are humans, not saints.

    Another thing is the “play at or near your level” dictum,
    which applies to male/female relationships as well as to
    sports. If you are shooting for LTR/marriage/kids,
    failure to be aware of this will likely cause misery.
    Think of it as a points system for nubility rating,
    be fairly honest, and shoot for people of the
    opposite sex who are at ROUGHLY the same
    percentile as yourself.

    Now, for men, this becomes obvious soon enough,
    without painstaking overthought analysis,
    women WAY above the man’s level will simply
    ignore him (OK, game can RAISE his apparent level
    significantly, but it does not change the nature
    of the situation.)

    Women, however, are allowed to temporarily
    play way above their level (but let’s not get ridiculous)
    as an ONS/STR/semiLTR. But the “way above level”
    is what causes the man NOT to commit, even if he
    is in principle willing to settle down in an LTR.
    (Meg Ryan in “When Harry met Sally” :
    “It is not that he didn’t want to get married,
    he just didn’t want to get married to MEEEEEEE!!!”)

    After several rounds of ONS/STR/semiLTR, the
    woman laments:
    “All men are pigs”
    “Men just won’t commit”
    “He took my best years”
    etc.

    Babe, play at your level if you want commitment!

    And, no, they don’t find this (the super-alpha) type
    of male behavior revolting (except the unavoidable
    “fail to commit” as per above), nor do they
    (or indeed most people, both sexes) have any
    idea about what causes social decline, and, mostly,
    they wouldn’t care even if they did.

    The concept of “free lunch” is endemic and
    almost impossible to root out, absent a major
    crash/reset/invasion.

    Remember when more than half of the electorate
    thinks (rightly or wrongly) that their daily bread depends
    on government, we will have passed a tipping point
    from which it is very hard to recover, except, again,
    after a major crash/reset/invasion.

    And in France you have riots in the streets at the
    long-term prospect of increasing retirement age
    from 60 to 62 years of age. And in Greece, people
    riot to keep their government subsidies/jobs/etc
    at the old level. The concept that this must somehow
    be paid for is a very hard sell.

    It is all a part of the “entitlement issues” that
    are destroying Western societies.

    Thor

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  113. on June 20, 2010 at 8:15 am wife looks like a dog

    Also, does anyone else wonder if the nanny he is talking about is even hot? I mean, he did marry his wife who looks like a hideous monster so his idea of good looking women is screwed to hell. I am guessing the nanny wouldn’t even be objectively considered hot by most men.

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  114. on June 20, 2010 at 8:27 am Original JB

    “I really think articles like this are only for “goy” consumption, either on a conscious or subconscious level.”

    Riiigggghhhhhttttt…because you never see a Jewish household where the mother wears the pants…you guys have more holes in your theories than a big ole slice of swiss…

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  115. on June 20, 2010 at 8:32 am Anonymous

    His next book will be on what it’s like to lose half his property and custody in a divorce, while he pays child support for a kids that’s not his as his ex-wife has lots of “big black cock” sex on the alimony he happlily coughs-up monthly. Research to commence shortly.

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  116. on June 20, 2010 at 8:33 am Original JB

    To add:

    “What is also interesting is that I doubt anything like this would fly in Israel, where the guys act like complete chauvinist a-holes.”

    I know the Judenhass here love to complain about how Jews want to undermine the West through unfettered immigration, while keeping Israel ethnically Jewish.

    But how do you explain all the leftist Jews who couldn’t give a shit about Israel and for all intent and purpose line up with the Palestinians?

    Your theories only work when you ignore contrary evidence.

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  117. on June 20, 2010 at 8:40 am Shiva

    My dad is 52. He doesn’t do much around the house except the occasional job that must be handled by a man, like a plumbing job or wire-work etc. Last night he came home at 1:30 am, drunk. He also frequently flirts with other girls in front of my mom. All my life, I had the perfect Alpha right in front of me and yet for the first 21 years of my life, I chose to be the man that my mom said she *wished* dad was. Mostly it was just that when interacting with girls, I would switch from traits I have from my father to traits hammered into me during childhood which was mostly spent under care of my mother.

    My question is how can my mother decieve herself into thinking she hates dad for being a total Alpha. Is the female programming to do this really so strong? Just last night I listened to her being bitter about how irresponsible dad is, when I know its what has kept her faithful to him for 22 years, and still going.

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  118. on June 20, 2010 at 8:40 am xsplat

    “Babe, play at your level if you want commitment!”

    Women steadfastly refuse to believe in empirical reality, and choose instead to believe in a socially created reality, because women fight each others social standings with gossip. They assert social positions onto each other, as part of their jockying for position. Proof by assertion. Their irrationally inflated self assessment must oftentimes work in their favor, just as a man’s does.

    And men do sometimes get sucked in to this spider’s web of socially created reality.

    Up until they start to fuck around a lot.

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  119. on June 20, 2010 at 8:44 am xsplat

    I didn’t follow my thought through properly. Women use social proof by assertion, and therefore must also cultivate an immunity to negative social assertions. They can’t believe in other peoples social realities.

    They must be able to say no to group consensus, and assert their own reality. For them it’s all social, and what you believe has a large influence on what is.

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  120. on June 20, 2010 at 8:55 am applier

    This is just more evidence that feminism is a parasitic idea, designd to provide disadvantages to its (male) host.

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  121. on June 20, 2010 at 9:07 am johnny five

    Women only get back together to settle for a provider – not a good idea for either the man or the woman.

    mostly true.
    although i’ve seen exceptions, in cases where the man’s status, measured by some metric, rises meteorically between the breakup and the reunification.

    strangely, i haven’t seen corresponding exceptions when the woman’s status has fallen. therefore, we can conclude that the possibility of such reunification is a function only of the man’s absolute status, not his relative status, in the eyes of the woman.

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  122. on June 20, 2010 at 9:20 am johnny five

    xsplat —
    To put in graphically, enforce MPT and in 100 generations you’ll have no more musicians capable of being another The Who.

    weak.

    the who is a nicely cherry-picked example, but, for every alpha musician like roger daltrey, there’s an equally talented beta musician like chris cornell, who, in his own words, “came from a childhood where [he] spent a lot of time alone and a lot of time just living with [his] imagination, and a certain amount of the adult world was kind of alienating” and compares matrimony to being “reborn in almost every way” (source).

    i’m sure neither of us has the energy or patience to do an exhaustive inventory of influential rock musicians in order to classify them on the alpha-beta spectrum, but i think it’s clear that there will be just as many beta rockers as alpha ones.

    and, what of the musicians you knew in your own youth? what was the ratio of barnstorming, guitar-smashing rogues like daltrey to emo kids like cornell?
    probably pretty low. definitely low enough to put the lie to the claim that rock music would be eradicated in a bonfire of the cads.

    you have also conveniently ignored the criminal element, which consists almost exclusively of alpha cad types.

    out of curiosity, what rights or immunities would you grant to a cuckolded husband?
    if, upon discovering the deceit, he took the baby and/or mother and smashed their skull(s) into a bloody pulp against the nearest brick wall, what punishment, if any, would you mete out to him?

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  123. on June 20, 2010 at 9:21 am simpleman

    I’ve got an issue in my LTR/marriage thing.

    I have a very submissive, loving wife. Been married a year. She’s great in every way. Defers to me, knows her place, cooks every day for me and is nowhere near being an “entitled princess”.

    Here’s the thing. Occasionally, I’ll be out with her, and I’ll notice her staring at a good looking guy. It’s happened several times. Not every day. Not every week. But enough that it really puts me in a bad mood.

    Sometimes its in very close quarters — if we’re on a train and some stud is directly across from us. Sometimes it’ll be a restaurant.

    Now, we all take looks of course. What I’m talking about here is a concentrated, rapt gaze. Which I look at her to see how long it takes for her to break.

    Last night, while on the train, I almost said: “You know, I’m right in front of you. I can see you.”

    Instead, I said nothing, and now here I am, depressed as shit again.

    Early on in our relationship I called her out on it once and told her not to do that in front of me. She didn’t admit to anything, just said she was people watching.

    I utilize game and do have the upper hand in our marriage. That’s why this kind of thing hurts even more.

    What do you do in these situations? Do I call her out? Do I just accept it as part of nature’s cruel ways? Do I accept it with a smile and go out and get some on the side without remorse?

    Better yet, how do I get her to not do this, while letting her know I won’t put up with it? Without losing dominance?

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  124. on June 20, 2010 at 9:26 am johnny five

    Hollenhund

    I think what most women genuinely don’t understand is that they are encouraging exactly the types of male behaviour that a) they find revolting b) are causing social decline:

    – alphas pumping and dumping while avoiding commitment

    one pretty lie that is often overlooked, even by this blog, is that a large number of women (probably a majority) are perfectly ok with being pumped and dumped by men who are alpha enough, by whatever metric.

    remember that women evaluate men according to two scales: one primal (the sort of hypergamy that is related to fucking and impregnation), and one pragmatic (the sort of hypergamy that is related to nesting).
    if a man is, simultaneously, extremely high on the former scale and extremely low on the latter, then women will prefer to be pumped and dumped by him.
    in fact, although such men are in high demand all around, they are in the highest demand from women who are already safely ensconced in stable relationships with men who are higher on the “nesting” scale.

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  125. on June 20, 2010 at 9:27 am thunear

    Too many of you are trying to work out what is the ideal ratio of alphas and betas in a society is and what society is more ‘alpha’ or more ‘beta’. This is a task destined to failure.

    Look at it like this…. who is more beta, Emperor Willhelm II. who led Germany into World War 1 or Prime Minister Otto von Bismarck, who tried to convince the rest of Europe that Germany was a ‘satisfied power’?

    Look at it another way, who is more Alpha, Emperor Napoleon who led a manic charge into Russia, when he could have stopped say in Vilnius or even in Moscow, or Field Marshall Mikhail Kutuzov, who led a careful, but brilliant tactical campaign that led ultimately to Russian troops sipping Pastis on the banks of the Seine.

    On one view the Alpha is the guy who wins. On another it is the one who can pull out something satisfactory from a dire situation. Can an Alpha every be a loser?

    I think you guys are mixing up trying to work out a proper cause of action in a situation, with how to deal with women. They are different things.

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  126. on June 20, 2010 at 9:38 am xsplat

    I’m sorry Thunear, I’m not quite following what you are talking about. Babbling about? I don’t understand how you are using the term Alpha. You say it’s the guy who gets the desired outcome?

    I say it’s the guy who controls other peoples labor and the sex of women. Whether what he does with that makes a mess or a painting doesn’t matter.

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  127. on June 20, 2010 at 9:39 am johnny five

    Look at it another way, who is more Alpha, Emperor Napoleon who led a manic charge into Russia, when he could have stopped say in Vilnius or even in Moscow, or Field Marshall Mikhail Kutuzov, who led a careful, but brilliant tactical campaign that led ultimately to Russian troops sipping Pastis on the banks of the Seine.

    napoleon’s strategy is the alpha strategy: high risk/high return, low future-time orientation. thrill seeker. horizontal integration.

    kutuzov’s strategy is the beta strategy: the opposite of these.

    “beta” is not a synonym for loser, nor is “alpha” a synonym for winner. there are some pursuits in which the beta approach is optimal, even necessary, and in which the alpha approach is almost universally ruinous; there are other pursuits in which the opposite is true.

    the point of this blog is that getting your dick wet is one of the latter pursuits.

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  128. on June 20, 2010 at 9:42 am xsplat

    I think a lot of guys use the word Alpha to mean nothing more than “someone they admire”.

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  129. on June 20, 2010 at 9:44 am johnny five

    What do you do in these situations? Do I call her out? Do I just accept it as part of nature’s cruel ways?

    heh. what is your dynamic like right now?

    if your relationship dynamic falls anywhere within the normal range, two options.

    1) actively embarrass her:
    “hey, why don’t you go ahead and show him your tits.” (turn to him) “she wants to show you her tits.”
    she should melt right into the seat and become invisible.

    2) smack her (not her face) and give her a derisive look, in the same way you’d smack and stare down a seven-year-old who keeps reaching toward the cookie jar.

    maybe even #2 followed by #1, now that i think about it.

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  130. on June 20, 2010 at 9:45 am gig

    say whatever you want about this AJ Jacobs guy, but in all his betaness, he is managing to earn money exactly because of that betatude

    the tribe never ceases to impress

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  131. on June 20, 2010 at 9:48 am polymath

    simpleman,

    Interesting problem, usually it is the women who get mad when the men ogle hotties.

    You should not show how bothered you are by this. If she’s a good woman in all the ways you say, the main thing you need to do is fuck her so well that whenever the sight of another man makes her horny she will want YOU to fuck her.

    It may make a difference whether she does this kind of ogling when you are NOT around, I don’t know if you have a way of finding that out. If she only does it when you are around because she feels safe that no one will make a pass at her, everything is fine. If she does it when you are not around, one of those guys is going to notice and respond eventually. Some detective work may be indicated.

    In the meantime, the best response is to show you are aware of it without showing you are bothered by it, by making fun of this “weakness” of hers. Time her staring and tell her “7.5 seconds that time”. Or say “your standards are slipping, that guy wasn’t so hot.”

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  132. on June 20, 2010 at 9:53 am johnny five

    @simpleman —
    #1 and #2 above are for you.

    “accepting it as part of nature’s cruel ways” is the worst possible strategy. this is a major offensive, whether she realizes it or not. probably not.

    a thousand-mile journey starts with a single step.
    this is the single step that starts the thousand-mile journey — the real bitch of which is that it’s 99% unconscious, from her standpoint — to a hotwife/cuckold relationship. you have been forewarned.

    actually, if she’s gotten to the point of “rapt gazes”, you are already several single steps into that journey.
    thin ice, kid. tread with care.

    even on the (small) off-chance that her rapt gaze is actually the catatonic, absent, glazed stare of someone who’s just really tired, #1 and #2 will still work.

    —

    one last thing:
    when’s the last time you made her do something new? something dirtier and sluttier than she’s done before, although by just a bit?

    remember, she’s an elastic band.

    stretch her a bit, and watch the rapt gazes stop ON THE FUCKING SPOT.
    i guarantee it.

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  133. on June 20, 2010 at 9:54 am polymath

    simpleman,

    Just saw johnny five’s suggestions. They are good if you need to escalate, though I would try my gentler ways of making fun of her first.

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  134. on June 20, 2010 at 9:55 am gig

    In the meantime, the best response is to show you are aware of it without showing you are bothered by it, by making fun of this “weakness” of hers. Time her staring and tell her “7.5 seconds that time”. Or say “your standards are slipping, that guy wasn’t so hot.”

    Most people think that once some advice is given, the mere fact that it was given serves as proof that it was sound advice. Unfortunately, this is wrong.

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  135. on June 20, 2010 at 9:55 am johnny five

    correction.

    if your wife is under, say, 35 years old, my advice is probably more to the point, although polymath’s is still pretty much on point.

    if she is over 35, then my advice is too intense, and you should go with polymath’s.

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  136. on June 20, 2010 at 10:00 am xsplat

    What do you do in these situations? Do I call her out? Do I just accept it as part of nature’s cruel ways? Do I accept it with a smile and go out and get some on the side without remorse?

    Better yet, how do I get her to not do this, while letting her know I won’t put up with it? Without losing dominance?

    Just call her out, and escalate your demands for her to stop her behavior up to whatever is necessary to get her to stop. If you can’t make a believable enough threat of a believable escalation, she may never stop. Cause she doesn’t have to.

    Try a takeaway. Here’s a takeaway I did last night. My live in kept pestering me about why I told her not to wear her platform pumps as I thought her shoes didn’t fit with her personality. When I finally told her it was because she can’t pull off the disco chick look, she blew up and started insulting the hotness of my ex.

    We were just about to go out the door for an evening out. Rather than go out with her I went out alone. Didn’t show up until after midnight. Never told her were I went upon return. Didn’t answer the phone while gone.

    Sometimes you have to be short and sharp. You should see how this girl is trying to please me today.

    Do short sharp cutting believable takeaways. Make it hurt.

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  137. on June 20, 2010 at 10:01 am simpleman

    That’s exactly what bothers me most.
    IF she does this when I’m not around, she’s inviting male attention.

    I don’t know if there’s a way to find out if she “ogles” when I’m not around.

    I mean, we’re together pretty much most of the time other than at work. She’s not out partying with her friends too much, we’re a pretty tight couple.

    Why is it so important not to show how much this bothers me? OK, I kind of understand why. But shouldn’t you call your wife out on this?

    It is VERY hard to use the cocky and funny responses you suggested “7 seconds this time,” etc. At that moment I’m really on the verge of losing it. Maybe the inner beta in me, I don’t know. Wouldn’t you be upset if your “wife” was ogling another guy?

    Re: Elastic Band: Interesting reading, Johnny five.

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  138. on June 20, 2010 at 10:01 am Anonymouses Anonymous

    @julian
    “Ex- gf game advice.”

    Find out if your current gf would be up for a threesome. if she is, then invite the ex to join you. If your gf isn’t, let her know you are seeing an ex and then have down & dirty sex with the ex.

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  139. on June 20, 2010 at 10:03 am polymath

    J5,

    Interesting distinction here. Should simpleman want his wife to know he is bothered by her ogling, or should he want her to think he feels unthreatened by it by making fun of it?

    Another reason I would choose the latter is I do a lot of ogling myself, and have told my wife it’s unreasonable to expect me to not even look at other women, so she doesn’t complain about this like she did when we first got married.

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  140. on June 20, 2010 at 10:04 am thunear

    @johnny five

    Thanks for illustrating my point.

    Talking about ‘alpha’ and ‘beta’ approaches is counter-productive. There are only effective and ineffective approaches.

    There are a number ways I could illustrate this, along with which approach is likely to get a woman to jump on your cock, but I’m playing online poker at the moment and counting odds at the same time as making a rational argument is a bit too much multi-tasking for me.

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  141. on June 20, 2010 at 10:05 am xsplat

    You should not show how bothered you are by this.

    I disagree. The woman is showing disrespect. She is nearly begging to be disciplined.

    A man does a woman who is begging to be disciplined a disservice. It’s immoral not to punish her. She wants that.

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  142. on June 20, 2010 at 10:07 am xsplat

    Thunear, I think it makes sense to say the alpha is the leader and the taker, the beta is the giver and the follower.

    What people actually DO with these powers of control over others doesn’t make a difference to their alpha or beta stance. Jim Jones was a major alpha.

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  143. on June 20, 2010 at 10:08 am xsplat

    Polymath, oggling is not a bargain. It’s not a matter of being fair.

    You get to do it, she doesn’t.

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  144. on June 20, 2010 at 10:08 am polymath

    simpleman,

    OK, your key problem is right here:

    At that moment I’m really on the verge of losing it. Maybe the inner beta in me, I don’t know. Wouldn’t you be upset if your “wife” was ogling another guy?

    Inner game, man. In MY case I would not be upset at all, because I confident that any arousal she gets elsewhere would be turned in my direction and I would benefit. But if you have only been with her a year as you say, this isn’t so clear. In either case you must not show insecurity.

    If she has done this from day one it is less of an issue than if she has started recently, in the latter case you really need to start stretching that elastic.

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  145. on June 20, 2010 at 10:10 am johnny five

    Wouldn’t you be upset if your “wife” was ogling another guy?

    nah. i would take it as constructive criticism, and go from there.

    something that white people in suits would refer to as a “suggestion for improvement”.

    —

    Another reason I would choose the latter is I do a lot of ogling myself

    don’t assume that points in general position have reflectional symmetry.

    —

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  146. on June 20, 2010 at 10:10 am johnny five

    Should simpleman want his wife to know he is bothered by her ogling, or should he want her to think he feels unthreatened by it by making fun of it?

    there’s a good “bothered” (roughly, protective instinct), and there’s a bad “bothered” (insecure jealousy).
    since it’s her doing the staring, the former doesn’t apply here. ergo, bothered = bad.

    similarly, there’s a good “unthreatened” (roughly, “i’m higher value than him so w/e”), and there’s a bad “unthreatened” (roughly, “i’m the cuck and she’s the hotwife”).
    if it comes off as the former, unthreatened = good.
    if it comes off as the latter, unthreatened = very very bad.

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  147. on June 20, 2010 at 10:11 am xsplat

    In regards to fairness and reciprocity in relationship, when in doubt, emphasize power imbalance.

    She is the one giving power to you.

    That’s what she wants, so oblige.

    Even the notion of fairness is fail.

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  148. on June 20, 2010 at 10:12 am johnny five

    thunear:

    Talking about ‘alpha’ and ‘beta’ approaches is counter-productive. There are only effective and ineffective approaches

    dude, what?

    let me try this from a different angle.

    alpha and beta are different climates; situational successes are like trees.
    most grow better in one of the two climates than in the other one.
    some grow exclusively in one of the two.

    what you’re saying is as ridiculous as saying “there are no such things as insight and memorization; there are only correct and incorrect answers.”
    really dude?

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  149. on June 20, 2010 at 10:13 am johnny five

    In regards to fairness and reciprocity in relationship, when in doubt, emphasize power imbalance.

    She is the one giving power to you.

    That’s what she wants, so oblige.

    Even the notion of fairness is fail.

    this = win.

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  150. on June 20, 2010 at 10:14 am polymath

    xsplat,

    That type of *explicit* asymmetry may work for your LTRs, but some of us need to be more subtle and can’t simply insist “OK for me but not for you because I’m the man”. Some women still think the standards should be the same for both of you, and can be allowed to persist in this illusion by using other means such as embarrassment to stop unacceptable behavior.

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  151. on June 20, 2010 at 10:15 am xsplat

    Women do dig jerks. Be over the top and unremittently selfish. With a base of love and security.

    She will agree, because giving to you is giving to her household.

    Women love to serve. If you want to be fair, be fair like a boss is fair. Like a parent is fair. Like a king is fair. Like a pet owner is fair. What you say goes, and the woman’s utility is solely in relation to fulfilling YOUR needs. She has her place. And will be treated well insofar as she fulfills her duties to YOU.

    You don’t put her through college for her. You don’t buy her a new car for her. You don’t do anything for her.

    You do everything for pure obvious unadulterated selfish motives.

    She’ll understand and respect you for that.

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  152. on June 20, 2010 at 10:15 am simpleman

    johnny five

    Care to elaborate on this.

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  153. on June 20, 2010 at 10:17 am johnny five

    on what?

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  154. on June 20, 2010 at 10:18 am polymath

    J5,

    don’t assume that points in general position have reflectional symmetry.

    As a mathematician I appreciate the depth of that analogy — but I wasn’t saying that I saw any real symmetry, just that she might react badly to the explicit repudiation of symmetry.

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  155. on June 20, 2010 at 10:19 am xsplat

    Polymath, this is the whole notion of shit test.

    Of course the woman won’t like it. Of course she will protest. Plates may get thrown. Suitcases may get packed.

    Winning a shit test – especially a major one – getting her to relent to your dominance and authority, is the measure of strength of your bonds and will be directly reflected in the strength of the sex life.

    Getting her to give up power through some mysterious and unstoppable attraction to you is what this whole game is about. Winning her soul. Full and total obedience.

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  156. on June 20, 2010 at 10:20 am polymath

    there’s a good “bothered” (roughly, protective instinct), and there’s a bad “bothered” (insecure jealousy).
    since it’s her doing the staring, the former doesn’t apply here. ergo, bothered = bad.

    similarly, there’s a good “unthreatened” (roughly, “i’m higher value than him so w/e”), and there’s a bad “unthreatened” (roughly, “i’m the cuck and she’s the hotwife”).
    if it comes off as the former, unthreatened = good.
    if it comes off as the latter, unthreatened = very very bad.

    Exactly how I would put it.

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  157. on June 20, 2010 at 10:20 am thunear

    @johnny five: alpha and beta are different climates; situational successes are like trees.
    most grow better in one of the two climates than in the other one.
    some grow exclusively in one of the two.

    Nonsense.

    A sensible guy will size up a situation and act appropriately. There is never an ‘alpha’ approach and a ‘beta’ approach. There are a range of actions that might be more or less successful.

    If you approach life with this A/B binary logic, then you must be continuously in a load of crap situations and your life must suck – unless you have a boring cubicle jockey life, that is.

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  158. on June 20, 2010 at 10:21 am simpleman

    johnny five, never mind…i think i got what xsplat is saying.

    > xsplat: In regards to fairness and reciprocity in relationship, when in doubt, emphasize power imbalance.

    She is the one giving power to you.

    That’s what she wants, so oblige.

    Even the notion of fairness is fail.

    > johnny five: this = win.

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  159. on June 20, 2010 at 10:23 am johnny five

    As a mathematician I appreciate the depth of that analogy — but I wasn’t saying that I saw any real symmetry, just that she might react badly to the explicit repudiation of symmetry

    i know, i know. that was just an easter egg for you. i’m probably the only person in the world who reads math and science books like allegorical literature, and there are few people in my life who would understand such references.

    fine. how’s this: don’t write a general-position problem for the remedial class, unless they’ll get the correct answer even by fallaciously assuming symmetry.
    is that good enough for you?

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  160. on June 20, 2010 at 10:25 am polymath

    xsplat,

    Polymath, this is the whole notion of shit test.

    Of course the woman won’t like it. Of course she will protest. Plates may get thrown. Suitcases may get packed.

    Winning a shit test – especially a major one – getting her to relent to your dominance and authority, is the measure of strength of your bonds and will be directly reflected in the strength of the sex life.

    Getting her to give up power through some mysterious and unstoppable attraction to you is what this whole game is about. Winning her soul. Full and total obedience.

    I generally agree with this. But I prefer to accomplish my objectives without plates being thrown and suitcases being packed — that tends to bother the kids an awful lot.

    I’m doing fine with the mysterious and unstoppable part, lots of progress on that front recently.

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  161. on June 20, 2010 at 10:26 am johnny five

    A sensible guy will size up a situation and act appropriately. There is never an ‘alpha’ approach and a ‘beta’ approach. There are a range of actions that might be more or less successful.

    your hypothetical “sensible guy”, then, has NO general proclivities, trends, or heuristic decision trees in his nature?
    everything is reasoned out from first principles, in real time?

    dude, people are not turing machines with a terahertz clock speed.

    i sense a no-true-sensible-guy fallacy coming on.

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  162. on June 20, 2010 at 10:27 am polymath

    J5, yes, that’s good enough, it’s actually what I said. OK to have fallacious assumptions as long as you get correct conclusions (since my math training was in logic most specifically, this goes VERY against my grain, but I recognize the difference between math and real life).

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  163. on June 20, 2010 at 10:31 am johnny five

    OK to have fallacious assumptions as long as you get correct conclusions

    i first learned this while playing left field in little league, when i learned that, to toss the ball at the optimal angle of 45 degrees, i had to toss the ball at what felt like an angle of almost 90 degrees. if you’ve ever played throwing sports, especially baseball (outfield), javelin, or football (quarterback), you can concur.

    ever since then, i’ve realized that, in most situations in life, you have to feel the trajectory of Y angle, in order to throw at X angle.

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  164. on June 20, 2010 at 10:46 am JB

    The problem I have with j5s’ solution to simpleman’s ogling problem is that it involves overtly noticing an infraction that’s subtextual. That strikes me as risky and potentially weak. I’d rather give a subtextual answer, one that doesn’t appear connected to the infraction but addresses the attitude of disrespect. Either a takeaway like the one xsplat described or creating jealousy as Roissy’s recommended would work.

    My highest payoff to effort is usually a simple cold shoulder for 20 minutes to 3 hours. If you can forget every scrap of gratitude and affection a girl’s ever built up in you at the first sign of disrespect, your blood runs ice cold and she’ll feel your strength shortly.

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  165. on June 20, 2010 at 11:01 am walawala

    @xsplat

    you wrote:

    “”disagree. The woman is showing disrespect. She is nearly begging to be disciplined.

    A man does a woman who is begging to be disciplined a disservice. It’s immoral not to punish her. She wants that.””

    I think this is not the way to go.

    I did this recently, I called out a girl who was playing me. I gave her the “Please, no gameplaying” text.

    She balked, claimed she didn’t play games, pulled away etc etc.

    From there, it was a slow push-pull and finally didn’t lead anywhere.

    On reflection, the direct confrontation was not the way to go.

    It certainly called her out. But far from making it easier to game her, it made it much harder.

    Had I to do it all over again.

    I would have not called her on her disrespectful behaviour.

    Instead, I would have pulled away, slowly, quietly not being so available, not being there.

    That would have had a bigger impact.

    I know this because when I did that, she started to notice.

    I blew that too. But I learned.

    You have to have your inner game sorted.

    But I think a more zen-like approach is better.

    The explosive arguements may work for a while, but they cause a lot of unnecessary tension.

    Yes, yes…tension good…But being a complete jerk just to maintain hand is not the role of game.

    The role of game is to establish hand. If some girl needs to have someone that dominant what good is that? I’m not her father…though I’m sure that’s what she’s looking for.

    I particularly like Roissy’s post here on instilling “Dread”. That I think works.

    But calling someone out on things. I think that would have to be an extreme situation.

    In the case of the girl oogling the guys.

    I think oogling other girls, bringing up other girls, talking non-stop about other girls might be enough to turn that dynamic around.

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  166. on June 20, 2010 at 11:12 am sharpcool

    There is definitely something wrong with simplemans relationship with this girl. Yes he must address this specific situation and not suffer in silence, but why is she staring at good-looking guys in the first place? That’s just weird to me, and not something women are known to do, at least in my experience.

    What I’m talking about here is a concentrated, rapt gaze

    lol. That’s fucked up. Holding it in and stewing in silence is the worst thing you can do, because eventually you’re gonna blow up and come off as insecure.

    If you take J5 and the other guys’ advice and address this situation with her, make sure you’re in a very calm and cool state, and not brewing with emotion.

    But you also have to take an honest look at your relationhip with her and find out why she is staring at guys in the first place. That ain’t right. Considering you just got married I feel bad for you.

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  167. on June 20, 2010 at 11:13 am xsplat

    Sometimes the best response to passive aggression is overt aggression.

    The woman is deliberately and publicly disrespecting her man sexual authority over her.

    It’s perfectly acceptable to be overtly angry.

    The only time in a relationship where this is not acceptable is before she is already yours. Up until she has declared complete sexual surrender, you don’t demand it. You tease submission out of her one baby step at a time. But with each baby step you make greater and greater demands, up to the point where there is no longer any grey area.

    Failure to escalate the womans sexual submission means that the relationship has not properly progressed. If so, then escalate now, no matter the consequences.

    Because the next time you start fresh, you will be doing so from an assumed position of authority, and this will have a dramatic impact on your next relationship.

    Men get it completely wrong that it’s weak to show weakness. If the bitch hurts you or undermines you, you be fucking fury. You be God’s Force of Nature.

    The woman is your conquest. She doesn’t get to play games with you. If she refuses to submit, move on.

    Escalate in baby steps, but escalate, until she would expect a hurricane of fury for being a bitch.

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  168. on June 20, 2010 at 11:17 am xsplat

    Walawala ““Please, no gameplaying”

    You don’t get it.

    You don’t ask anything. Never, ever, ever say please.

    Never!

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  169. on June 20, 2010 at 11:19 am xsplat

    Relationship is not a bargain. You don’t get favors in return for nice treatment.

    It’s a submission of the woman to the man.

    You tell her “don’t do that”. And in your mind, you have to have an answer to “or what?” that is credible.

    You have to in your heart of hearts be fully prepared to leave the woman for the mere act of insubordination.

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  170. on June 20, 2010 at 11:20 am JB

    The more overt the staring the easier it is to call out. I didn’t actually read simpleman’s post.

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  171. on June 20, 2010 at 11:26 am sharpcool

    I agree with you xsplat that it’s okay to show anger, but more as a strategy as opposed to uncontrollable anger that spills out because it was brewing for awhile.

    From a position of strength and dominance and not insecurity.

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  172. on June 20, 2010 at 11:28 am xsplat

    I disagree with you sharpcool that you have to be calm and cool.

    Anger is not a sign of weakness, nor loss of control. You can have controlled, forceful, unstoppable, powerful anger. A force of nature.

    Anger isn’t about your voice cracking and your begging “stop hurting me?!”. It’s about “you will stop this now.” in a thunderous voice that the neighbors can hear. And then escalating up to ANY point. Even violence, even breaking up.

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  173. on June 20, 2010 at 11:47 am xsplat

    Walwala – which do you think works best in a loving, serious, committed LTR.

    a) “Please pass the salt, Dear”

    b) “Please pass the salt.”

    c) “Pass the salt”

    d) “Pass the salt, woman.

    e) “Pass the salt, bitch.”

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  174. on June 20, 2010 at 11:49 am simpleman

    sharpcool <>

    lol. That’s fucked up. Holding it in and stewing in silence is the worst thing you can do, because eventually you’re gonna blow up and come off as insecure.>

    I think I may have overstated the “rapt gaze” thing. Its more like stealing looks in succession. Either way, it sucks.

    I should have called her on it last night. Now I’m just ignoring her and she has no idea why. It’s pretty tense.

    I feel like I don’t shouldn’t have to discipline this crap…Take a look here and there, sure, we all do, but come on…the sex is hot, we’re very close, so what do I have to do?

    I feel like if I bring it up it now it will look pathetic. I really should have said something like polymath suggested, “Hey, that’s 7 seconds, a record this time,” etc.

    But I’m at the point where she knows something is obviously up and I have to address that. Just not sure how to at this point.

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  175. on June 20, 2010 at 11:56 am xsplat

    Simpleman, I suggest that you cultivate a short fuse, and learn to make embarassing scenes in public.

    I once slapped full force a girl in the middle of a 7-11. Should I have have had to do that?

    You do what you gotta do. You just do it. Ya, life’s not easy, life’s not fair. You work with reality, and reality will work with you.

    You’re woman is begging you to be more caveman. Stop being so lazy. Stop being so selfish. Give her what she needs.

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  176. on June 20, 2010 at 11:58 am xsplat

    Ok, here is something that might work for you. Do some public role playing. Dress your girl up, halloween style, as your bitch plaything tramp. Go to a public restaurant. Feign a brief fight with her (you both stage this), then slap her hard enough that the other patrons will hear.

    I used to do this all the time with my last girl. It works much better if you don’t actually have to have the fight first in order for the woman to get her drama fix.

    Your woman is just aching for drama. You really must get off your lazy ass and give it to her.

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  177. on June 20, 2010 at 12:02 pm xsplat

    I have a question for those that have used their fists with other men. Does it happen that a right handed person can favor their left for delivering blows?

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  178. on June 20, 2010 at 12:06 pm xsplat

    One last thing. Don’t talk to her about why you are pissed. Just give her some really rough sex.

    If you don’t know how to do that, learn.

    Explain your anger with sex.

    Try spitting on her face.

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  179. on June 20, 2010 at 12:08 pm xsplat

    Don’t be wounded. Don’t feel mistreated and wronged. Don’t resent that things shouldn’t be this way. Don’t resent her mistreatment. Be angry.

    And make her learn to genuinely fear your anger.

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  180. on June 20, 2010 at 12:14 pm simpleman

    >Don’t be wounded. Don’t feel mistreated and wronged. Don’t resent that things shouldn’t be this way. Don’t resent her mistreatment. Be angry.

    And make her learn to genuinely fear your anger.>

    In theory this would be ideal. Hard to do.

    As it stands I want to blow off a family father’s day dinner tonight (hers).

    Something is telling me I really should have made a scene to call her on it AT THE TIME.

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  181. on June 20, 2010 at 12:21 pm xsplat

    Calling her on it is not too late, but you need a credible threat.

    Say in a calm and collected but stern and obviously angry tone “if you ever do that again I will” and then explain what you are going to do. It could be “not talk to you for 3 hours”.

    The trick is to always only escalate up to what is required. You don’t want to freak her out with sudden shows of anger. Slowly escalate your responses until she becomes acclimated to larger and larger responses of correction to her behavior. Until she would not only not be surprised if you yelled forcefully, but would expect it if she was being disrespectful to your authority. Until she knows better, and doesn’t want to test you.

    Start slow. Some women need hardly any feedback. Some need a sledgehammer. It doesn’t matter which your woman needs – she can still be a good bitch. That’s up to you.

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  182. on June 20, 2010 at 12:23 pm Dat_Truth_Hurts

    Never discount the sharp backhand. She’ll learn.

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  183. on June 20, 2010 at 12:26 pm xsplat

    Oh, and don’t negotiate about your threat. Don’t back down. Don’t discuss it. Cut off any conversation about it. It’s not a negotiable threat, it’s not a disussion. She has no input on the fairness of it, nor the quality of your character for saying that.

    The point is, if your woman is not respecting your authority, you are on thin ice. She is not fully loving you. You can do better than that. You can.

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  184. on June 20, 2010 at 12:33 pm Dat_Truth_Hurts

    I swear men are just so pussified these days. I’m glad my dad was a good role model after I turned to him for advice when I couldn’t figure out dating and girls in my teens.

    Still married my parents are, 40 years going strong, and he still smashes any shit test my mom gives into the dust. He does what ever the fuck he wants, and I used to think this was so mean. I get it. My dad is the motherfucking master of his house, raised 5 boys, put my mom through college so she can make lots of money while he relaxes – and mom still have to do all the chores and cook.

    Kids growing up in single mother homes and lesbian homes, or with uber beta dads – man those kids are fucked.

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  185. on June 20, 2010 at 12:42 pm Cap'n Bob

    Simpleman,

    Think you had a similar post last week, where your lady showed a lot of interest in a TV sports star. At the time, I suggested that you tease her, and make fun of her in a funny, but calm manner.

    Seems that it’s a more general problem now, but the same advice applies here.

    Make fun of her when she does this. Play it cool, but make her feel as foolish as possible whenever you see her doing this. This behaviour is not acceptable but don’t be the angry, physical guy. Tease her the way you’d tease your kid sister in a similar situation.

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  186. on June 20, 2010 at 1:03 pm coyote

    Beauty’s Perfect Alpha

    The anditode to betahood is to watch this video of French beauties to the strain of the equally beautiful French pop of Alain Bashung.

    Don’t you all want to sleep with every single one of these gorgeous creatures? Of course you do.

    Beauty lives! Beauty rules! Forever!

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  187. on June 20, 2010 at 1:10 pm Höllenhund

    johnny five:

    “one pretty lie that is often overlooked, even by this blog, is that a large number of women (probably a majority) are perfectly ok with being pumped and dumped by men who are alpha enough, by whatever metric.”

    I suppose you meant to say this is an overlooked/suppressed thruth, not a pretty lie.

    I won’t disagree with that – but the key word in your sentence is ‘enough’. Yes, women allow alphas to repeatedly pump & dump them – but IMO the majority does it in the hope of snagging one for LTR or semi-LTR. Every woman wishes to have the EXCLUSIVE attention and desire of an alpha. Many of them refuse to give up because they follow the logic of “I got fucked by 9s and 10s, therefore I deserve the companionship of a 9 or 10 and I’m a 9 or 10 myself”.

    You are an alpha among alphas if women want you for casual sex even if they know they have ZERO chance of having any meaningful relationship with you. Women just aren’t wired that way. After all, they on average have less desire for casual sex.

    (I don’t mean that an average woman has a lower sex drive than the average man. What I mean is that the average man would consider roughly 50-60% of all women for casual sex whereas the same ratio is roughly 10-15% for the average woman. And women are less capable of having repeated casual sex without forming an emotional bond.)

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  188. on June 20, 2010 at 1:46 pm xsplat

    Woops – reposting to the proper thread here:

    More, Walawala; once you cultivate this sense of command and stop saying please, your woman will be offended and hurt if you say please before asking her to do something. She’ll assume you think she doesn’t love you.

    NEVER say please. It means you don’t deserve her labor.

    Her labor is her love. You deserve it, and you demand it.

    “Make me a carrot juice.”

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  189. on June 20, 2010 at 2:00 pm Thor

    @xsplat
    “They must be able to say no to group consensus, and assert their own reality. For them it’s all social, and what you believe has a large influence on what is.”

    Actually, this is a little confused. For many people,
    (not just women), group consensus IS what they
    believe to be reality.

    I may have written this before, but some things ARE
    social constructs. (The quirky little pieces of paper
    with heraldic symbols, royalty, green ink, whatever,
    have value).

    Other things ARE NOT social constructs.
    “This is the Titanic! Surely this ship cannot sink!”
    (We have a solid group majority on this, therefore
    true!)
    “Aye, she is made of iron. She will sink all right”.
    (Reality is what it is, consensus has nothing to
    do with it.)

    @Johnny five
    “strangely, i haven’t seen corresponding exceptions when the woman’s status has fallen. therefore, we can conclude that the possibility of such reunification is a function only of the man’s absolute status, not his realtive status….”

    I think the explanation is a lot simpler. The woman refuses
    to believe that her status has fallen. “I used to be a babe.
    I will always be a babe. Adding 20 years and 100 pounds SHOULD have nothing to do with it!”

    Thor

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  190. on June 20, 2010 at 2:05 pm DJ

    Last year I foolishly got engaged. A few months into the relationship, her ex BF started contacting her with all this beta shyt – emails, postings on facebook…..”I love you baby” “Come back to me”….etc. etc. She began flaunting this shyt trying to make me jealous. She would complain about him but did nothing to stop his behaviour – if he was annoying her so much, she could have blocked him etc.

    I warned her repeatedly, that if ABC kept occurring, I would do XYZ. It didn’t stop and she even became nasty about it. Needless to say, I broke off the engagement and dumped her ass. She is now fully humiliated, namely because it was her who asked me to marry her….I haven’t looked back, nor will I.

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  191. on June 20, 2010 at 2:09 pm xsplat

    Thor, it’s a matter of degree. Women use gossip to achieve social status much more than men do. This affects their use and reaction to “truth”.

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  192. on June 20, 2010 at 2:11 pm xsplat

    Good for you DJ!

    Saved yourself years of torment.

    That’s what I call a man.

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  193. on June 20, 2010 at 2:16 pm simpleman

    <>

    Cap’n Bob,

    Yeah, this does seem indicative of a bigger problem here, but for she is so into me in every other sense that I literally do not get why she does this.

    Maybe she is not as into me as it seems? Maybe she’s into me out of her own insecurity?

    If as you say, this behavior is not acceptable, how is teasing her going to show her you won’t stand for this?

    I mean, I totally get where the teasing would work / and or be appropriate with some fantasy celebrity, but here, I was standing right next to her on the train, and she’s openly looking at him. The guy was sitting right in front of us.

    Such contradictory advice in these comments…tease her, don’t be angry; no, get angry and issue an ultimatum.

    Kinda confused here.

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  194. on June 20, 2010 at 2:21 pm xsplat

    Thor, a man will rarely ask himself “What does he REALLY mean when he says that?”

    Women can’t ever stop asking themselves this.

    They never say what the REALLY mean, and may not even know what they REALLY mean.

    They have completely different notions of truth and consensual reality. It’s subterfuge and positioning to them.

    They are completely inside the maze of their own mind. No broad perspective possible. Much more so than men.

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  195. on June 20, 2010 at 2:25 pm xsplat

    Simpleman, you’ll need to find your own response within your own style, but first you’ll need to come to grok certain basic principles.

    Women will fight the man for dominance. No matter how much she loves you and enjoys your company, she will never stop doing this.

    She doesn’t know it, and can’t tell you this, but she want’s you to fight her and win.

    Grok those principles, and you can come to find your own personalized solutions.

    I should say that this whole fight is sexually charged. Dominating her is sexual domination. Women want to be dominated.

    I’m completely confident that your woman deeply requires more dramatic cave man style dominance from you. This is how she is asking for that.

    Begging, I’d say.

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  196. on June 20, 2010 at 2:43 pm PRCalDude

    @Philosopher,

    Of course I’m familiar with MacDonald.

    Riiigggghhhhhttttt…because you never see a Jewish household where the mother wears the pants…you guys have more holes in your theories than a big ole slice of swiss…

    I’d say Jewish men are perhaps the most hen-pecked of all of them, which is perhaps why they are almost comically effeminate. I suspect that there are many closeted Jewish males married to Jewish women (see: David Plotkin) which perhaps accounts for some of the Jewish homophilia.

    Jewish women co-opted 2nd and 3rd wave feminism because of their low status in the sexual market. Take a look through some of the pictures of these Jewish beauties, for instance. It was impossible for them to compete with much-prettier-on-average gentile WASP women on looks and personality alone, so they needed a Revolution that made them look hotter (corrolary to Sailer’s law).

    Feminism is for the “have-nots” amongst women in terms of looks and personality and for the hen-pecked beta clingers-on who aid them.

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  197. on June 20, 2010 at 3:03 pm betadyourmom

    Höllenhund — The idea that men are more wired for casual sex is another almost universally believed “pretty lie”. It is more a generalization of the alpha-cad type rather than the average man.

    Surveying the personal history of guys I know, very few of them could deal with one night stands or non-exclusive relationships. Beta-ish guys get very possessive and resentful in those situations. I can’t count the number of situations I know of where a girl threw a fuck at a guy only to have him respond with a meltdown and creepy-stalker behavior.

    Folks here talk all the time about women shit-testing for alpha-behavior. But many women only learn this lesson the hard way — it is just not worth the emotional backlash and threating behavior to casually screw a beta-male.

    Instead, the usual behavior I see is that men will quickly “settle” for the first half-decent girl who will have them. Meanwhile women would rather “date” (have short term flings) or be a fuck-buddy instead of getting into a LTR with someone beneath them.

    (The ‘big’ exception to the rule here is when the the girl is far below their standards. i.e. fat.)

    There’s no point in perpetuating the old notions that women are too emotionally bonded for casual sex. Maybe its true for a few younger “good girls”, but its statistically unlikely for any woman you would be “gaming”.

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  198. on June 20, 2010 at 3:57 pm johnny five

    xsplat —
    Simpleman, I suggest that you cultivate a short fuse, and learn to make embarassing scenes in public. I once slapped full force a girl in the middle of a 7-11. Should I have have had to do that?
    …

    there is nothing incorrect about what you are saying here — quite the opposite, in fact; you are hitting (heh) on some profound truths.
    however, you are making the mistake of addressing these posts to simpleman, rather than properly acknowledging them for what they are (i.e., an independent lecture/treatise on extremely advanced theory).

    taken AS ADVICE TO SIMPLEMAN, your posts are, despite their ultimate truth, extremely shitty advice.
    for a number of reasons.

    one:
    and most importantly
    your advice is EXTREMELY advanced, revolutionary theory. i can testify that it is ultimately the truth — i’ve seen, firsthand, secondhand, backhand, and forehand, since an absurdly young age, that these principles WORK.
    but, as advice to a man with beta tendencies, these lines just don’t hold water yet, and won’t for at least several years.
    this is NOT like teaching a musical instrument, in which placing before a novice a sheet of music meant for a virtuoso — paganini’s caprices, say, for a seven-year-old violinist — will result in little more than comedy and embarrassment.
    this is playing with fire.
    more than fire, actually.
    this is like learning to make nitroglycerin on the kitchen counter, without so much as goggles or gloves.
    this is like learning to dismantle a belt full of bombs.
    this is like taking on an armed, enraged opponent with only your bare hands.

    put a rookie into any of the above situations, and you’re going to be cleaning rookie blood, rookie brains, and various other rookie chunks off the ground.

    two:
    when you are giving this advice, you are failing to temper the objective truth and depth of the material itself with the equally objective and obvious truth that most people are EXTREMELY bad at EVERYTHING they first learn to do, and must learn to calibrate slowly and carefully to avoid doing extensive damage both to others and to themselves.
    yes, it is true that a well-placed slap can be worth 10,000 words. that’s the equivalent of 10 pictures, there.
    BUT.
    this is NOT a situation in which a dude should just come out swinging as hard as he can. remember that this dude is a rookie, who, in all probability, will misinterpret your advice as saying that he should go tasmanian-devil on her ass left and right at random.
    this is a situation like swinging a baseball bat: you must learn to deliver precision hits with as much force as possible WITHOUT LOSING CONTROL.
    the only way a rookie can learn to calibrate a swing like that is to start out slowly and carefully, and, after many months or years of experience, to build his way up to a confident, controlled swing for the fences.

    three:
    you are also writing with reckless disregard of the legal climate in which simpleman finds himself. if simpleman begins to execute these techniques in a bumbling, inconsistent way — as would be a virtual certainty — he will quickly wind up behind bars, losing everything.
    you seem to forget that you are writing to a group of readers who are still under the influence of a baleful legal system, not only internally (the baleful beta “legal system”) but also externally (the legal system enforced by men with guns).
    if you’re going to proffer this sort of advice to a rookie, you should at least include a disclaimer.

    four:
    believe it or not, there is a whole spectrum of behavior “up with which”, as churchill put it, women “will not put” — at least at first.
    women are elastic bands. stretch them too far too fast and they’ll fray, and maybe even break.
    this kind of stuff really doesn’t work on innocent enough women. they need the slow hand.
    at first.

    five:
    do you think that it’s really possible to “cultivate a short fuse”?
    in my experience, despite the extent to which beta men transform themselves otherwise, they will not be able to convincingly feign controlled anger. the best way to reveal the beta core at the base of an ostensibly alpha man is to make him raise his voice, or to place him into an emotionally explosive situation.
    from your writing is very clear that you naturally have a short fuse. you write long, long series of extremely short choppy posts, the electronic equivalent of continuing to rant in order to hear yourself talk (even though, again, the words are profound truths), even though you are progressively losing the attention and understanding of your originally intended audience.
    this sort of behavior is the imprimatur of a man who is NATURALLY given to bursts of anger, and who can therefore pull off the anger shtick with extreme congruence.
    can this be taught?
    can it be learned?
    i have my doubts.

    basically, you’re giving step 352 to a man who needs step 1.
    although step 352 is some powerful shit, and although this is the place, this is not the time.

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  199. on June 20, 2010 at 4:08 pm johnny five

    I have a question for those that have used their fists with other men. Does it happen that a right handed person can favor their left for delivering blows?

    for a quick jab, is perfectly normal for a right-hander to favor the left.
    in fact, when training young men to throw a good jab, i usually start with their off-hand, because the movement of that hand and arm is still largely a blank slate; by contrast, even boys who have not been in a fight have already acquired certain patterns of movement in their dominant hand and arm, patterns that generally include the entire shoulder girdle as well as the arm and hand themselves. those patterns are not good when it comes to schooling these boys to throw a quick, abrupt jab.

    the idea with the left hand is that you learn to throw a punch that hits like the snapping of a wet towel; with the right hand, you learn to throw a punch that hits more like a sledgehammer.

    of course, past a certain point, you train to throw a jab with either hand, to maximize effectiveness in as many situations as possible.

    left jab, then straight right hand, then left hook.
    you start with a left jab for the aforementioned reasons. then the withdrawal of the left jab gives you an extra lever length to provide additional force for your straight right (which is thrown with the entire force of the shoulder girdle in addition to the hand). then you follow-up with the left hook, again using momentum as much as raw force.

    how much experience you have with fighting other men?

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  200. on June 20, 2010 at 4:21 pm mr_mike

    in love there are no victims… only volunteers

    (can’t remember where i read that)

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  201. on June 20, 2010 at 4:31 pm The Alchemist

    Xsplat: “Sometimes the best response to passive aggression is overt aggression.

    The woman is deliberately and publicly disrespecting her man sexual authority over her.

    It’s perfectly acceptable to be overtly angry. ”

    Xsplat is correct on this, though i don’t think that getting emotional or “angry” is the way to go. I prefer a cold calculating business-like demeanor which lays out the way it is and the way it will be for her. Plain and simple, as if it’s written in the stars.

    Look, if she’s checking out guys, and doing it blatantly in front of you, your relationship is already in trouble. You may have been doing an ok job of gaming this girl, but, somewhere along the lines you’ve developed a small beta hemorraghe which she picked up on and you’re slowly bleeding yourself out. Girls who are “into” their man, don’t check out other guys, at least not with the empassioned degree which you’re describing. It’s just a matter of time, if it hasn’t happened already, that the “rapt gaze” is followed up with her “just being friendly and saying hi” to this dude, and then “just giving her phone number to him”, and then “just meeting him for a drink on Wed night” and then “just letting him sausage her dirt-star” while you’re at home believing she’s out with the girls.

    You’re in trouble already, so, the fear of looking insecure for calling her on her behavior is a moot point and should be more than overwhelmed by the the very real possibility that this girl will be feasting on new cock sooner or later. Don’t let your girl’s submissive demeanor lull you into a false sense of security. You need to take action to try and salvage this mess. Doing nothing will get you more of what you have now – is that what you want? It’s not just going to magically stop happening.

    You need to let her know that this not acceptable to you. This should be done at a time remote from the offending incident and should be carried out in a calm, direct and clear manner. And most importantly, it has to be done from a position of strength… which can only come from your willingness to walk away from the girl forever. If you’re not able to do that, (you need to be absolutely honest with yourself about it) she’ll know, and your discussion will come from a position of weakness and your situation will worsen. But, if you’re able to walk away at a moments notice, letting her know that you find her behavior disrespectful and you won’t tolerate it, will at the very least, allow you to walk away from this with your head held high and without the stank of some other guys sperm on your dick or in your mouth.

    Really, what it comes down to is a matter of self respect. What are you willing to put up with just to have a girl in your life? There are lots of girls out there, why put yourself in a realtionship with a girl who doesn’t want to be there 100%?

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  202. on June 20, 2010 at 4:34 pm Dalrock

    @Johnny Five

    paganini’s caprices, say, for a seven-year-old violinist — will result in little more than comedy and embarrassment.

    Thanks! I have neglected listening to this for too long. I don’t have a 7 year old violinist handy, so Ilya Kaler playing the 24th will have to do.

    basically, you’re giving step 352 to a man who needs step 1.
    although step 352 is some powerful shit,

    Funny, I’ve made a very similar comment to xsplat recently.

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  203. on June 20, 2010 at 5:00 pm Trimegistus

    Simpleman:

    Next time she does it, reach out and turn her head to face yours, and say in a completely serious voice “If you look at him again I’m leaving.” Be ready to follow up — get in the car and go home, with or without her.

    If she runs out into the parking lot in tears after you, stop and take her home. Have the whole serious & concerned discussion.

    If she doesn’t run after you . . . go home, pack up your stuff, change all your passwords, and pick a city you’ve always wanted to live in.

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  204. on June 20, 2010 at 5:03 pm xsplat

    Although it may sound advanced, the inner game should clearly ring through my anecdotes. The anecdotes are meant to be so shocking, and so foreign, that they make the man wonder what planet such concepts could come from. This will shake up his inner world view.

    Regardless of a mans personal station and ability with women, the inner game I explain is what you cultivate. You start with exactly that, from step one.

    Never have I suggested you should slap your woman in a 7-11. I do suggest dressing her up in a bitch costume and slapping her for play in a public restaurant though.

    I’d suggest that to anyone – beginner, intermediate, or expert. You haven’t lived.

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  205. on June 20, 2010 at 5:04 pm betadyourmom

    @ johnny five – Don’t even blow xplat’s bitch-slap talk as “advanced theory” or “profound truth”. It is just plain shitty advice.

    Even if xplat really does pull this off, there’s nothing advanced about beating a woman. It is exactly this kind of silly tough-guy pimp talk which makes “Game” forums sound like bunch of virgins bullshitting each other in the junior high locker room.

    The one useful thing xplat proposed was the rough sex (although i’m not into spitting). This gets directly to the heart of the so-called “Sperm Wars” – simpleman’s woman is making him jealous, and the only way to “win” is total vagina domination.

    Of course to even pull that off, you will need to have established strong dominant-submissive roles in bed, and you will need unlimited sexual access. So I doubt most guys could pull that off either.

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  206. on June 20, 2010 at 5:10 pm betadyourmom

    Acutally this gets to the heart of SWPL thirdwave psuedo-feminist thinking.

    Being slapped in a 7-11 = unacceptablely low-class brute behavior. Being smacked silly during sex = totally hot sexual fetish. End result is about the same.

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  207. on June 20, 2010 at 5:10 pm xsplat

    And regarding cultivating a temper – you have to do that slowly, in stages.

    As a tweenty something Buddhist, I used to rarely express anger. Oh – here’s an anecdote from my teen years:

    I had this smokin hot redhead girlfriend. Took her out to a date of dinner and dancing. After some drinks, looks around and couldn’t find her. Went outside looking for her and found her making out in the front seat with some other guy.

    Later that night I was not angry with her. She told me that she wished I would get angry with her. I thought that would be wrong and mistreatment.

    Take a guess what happened next. Of course, you don’t have to guess. You know. She dumped me.

    It took me years to learn that I had number one been too sweet to her that night before she went out to make out in that guys car, and number two that the woman was aching – just aching and crying out for me to go caveman on her ass.

    No way – wasn’t in me.

    In my marriage in my early twenties, it was some of the same. Very contained temper.

    Look, this is not rocket science – this is a basic principle. Girls want you to dominate them. You have to cultivate the view that they require drama, and give it to them before they get the chance to ask for it with misbehavior. Once they misbehave, you are remiss in your responsibilities as a man unless you discipline that woman. She is begging you, mouth open, to keep some order in your house.

    Men have no choice. Lament about it, cry, moan. But then grow up and get to work and do your job as a man, no matter how much you hate it. Believe me, it will eventually become second nature. Then first nature.

    Yes, a temper cultivated. It’s a decision, that becomes a habit, that becomes a personality.

    Step by step.

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  208. on June 20, 2010 at 5:15 pm xsplat

    Betad – don’t conflate beating a woman with slapping a woman.

    This subject is like racism. Everyone is afraid that a little honest talk will be misconstrued and we’ll have another world war 2 level of racial cleansing.

    A slap is a slap is a slap.

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  209. on June 20, 2010 at 5:34 pm xsplat

    And once again, for the guys who suggest no displays of temper, I remind of my strategy.

    Start with a low amount of correction, then escalate incrementally to whatever is needed.

    Some women respond well to very minor adjustments.

    Don’t throw away a perfectly good woman just because she is difficult to tame. Sometimes the more they fight, the harder they fall. A good woman isn’t the woman who doesn’t fight you. It’s the woman who you eventually win over and who has a good fight in her to use to fight for you.

    That’s point one. Escalate incrementally with credible levels of threat and response. Point two is that it’s not only about getting her to behave. Women sometimes really need the drama. You have to keep your ear to the train tracks about this. Read the signals. Know when she needs drama.

    Then do your job as a man and give her drama.

    Role play is great for that.

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  210. on June 20, 2010 at 5:45 pm xsplat

    Here is another tip even a beginner can pull off.

    Raise your backhand and say “don’t make me slap you, woman”.

    Do it at a time when you are not in the least upset and you are both just clowning around.

    Get used to that feeling, of being a guy who would say such a thing.

    Say it fairly regularly, and then sometimes actually give her a little love tap to the cheeks.

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  211. on June 20, 2010 at 5:50 pm Linkage is Good for You: Amusing Coincidence Edition (NSFW)

    […] Roissy – “The Sexual Market Stripped Naked“, “The Self-Deception of the White Knight“, “The End of Beta Providers“, “Study Confirming My View of the Job-Sexual Marketplace Nexus“, “God’s Perfect Beta” […]

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  212. on June 20, 2010 at 5:57 pm johnny five

    @ betadyourmom —

    Of course to even pull that off, you will need to have established strong dominant-submissive roles in bed, and you will need unlimited sexual access. So I doubt most guys could pull that off either

    wrong and wrong.

    first wrong:
    do you think that “establish[ing] strong dominant-submissive roles in bed” is a process that is limited to the bedroom?
    if so, you had better check that assumption RIGHT NOW.
    you are talking about a woman’s world here, not a man’s. in a woman’s world, everything is holistic. to a woman, if X does not equal Y, then there is no such thing as “X in the street and Y in the bed”.

    if you don’t believe me, and if you don’t know any real people with actual d/s relationships, why don’t you check out journals written by people with such relationships. i’m sure there are lots of them online.
    a “dominant woman” will not consider her dominance complete, or even meaningful, unless it is not only sexual but also social and financial.
    similarly, you can’t manufacture a heterogeneous woman whose bedroom component consists of a nice malleable submissive alloy, but who is your “equal” in every other area of life. that’s not how women work; women are smelted homogeneously in the blast furnace of their relationships, and they are molded by whichever of those blast furnaces has the strongest heat — father, girlfriends, or YOU.
    take option 3.
    whatever you do in the bedroom, you must do in equal proportion outside the bedroom. women are EXQUISITELY attuned to CONGRUENCE.

    —

    second wrong:

    you don’t need “unlimited sexual access”. in fact, these things are orders of magnitude easier to pull off if you’re in a monogamous long-term relationship.
    read my exchange with sdaedalus here. class is in session.

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  213. on June 20, 2010 at 5:58 pm xsplat

    Do that kind of role playing, and sometimes if you show the minor disapproval of furrowed brows, your girl will offer up her cheek to you and say “slap me then”.

    You can substitute role play for these basic female desires. But you must address them. You must learn to enjoy addressing them.

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  214. on June 20, 2010 at 5:59 pm johnny five

    xsplat
    Don’t throw away a perfectly good woman just because she is difficult to tame. Sometimes the more they fight, the harder they fall. A good woman isn’t the woman who doesn’t fight you. It’s the woman who you eventually win over and who has a good fight in her to use to fight for you.

    yep.

    don’t forget that the reward of taming the tiger, for the tamer himself, is much greater than the reward of taming a housecat.

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  215. on June 20, 2010 at 6:23 pm betadyourmom

    @xsplat –

    Don’t mind the real talk at all, but keep in mind that on the internet all of this stuff is completely free of any context. Ultimately, we have no idea if a poster a meth-fueled biker, or a pimply teenager, or anything in-between, so a lot of the more boastful ‘advice’ falls flat IMO.

    You’re absolutely right that women crave dominance. However one of the depressing corollaries of that fact is that battered woman types are not hard to find. I’ve had women just randomly volunteer that their ex-boyfriends used to hit them within minutes of flirting with them, and this isn’t an uncommon story according to my friends.

    That is why I took issue with it being called “advanced wisdom” or whatever. Get into bipolar damaged-goods woman territory and it is completely common, and a game you will ultimately lose.

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  216. on June 20, 2010 at 6:29 pm betadyourmom

    Note the above also holds true even if we’re talking about emotional shit rather than physical. Maybe well-timed temper-bombs work well for xsplat, but some other guy out there is in for a roller-coaster of pure hell.

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  217. on June 20, 2010 at 6:30 pm xsplat

    I agree, B.Y.M, a woman who purposely crosses the boundaries to get her fix is bad news.

    Just saying, there is a time and a place for everything. If the man can’t ever go there, he puts himself at a disadvantage. He crosses of his list of suitable partners all those that are the most extreme.

    If the woman makes him go there routinely, dump her.

    And better than ever going there, is forestalling bad behavior with role play drama before she craves her fix so bad that she acts out for attention.

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  218. on June 20, 2010 at 6:36 pm johnny five

    BYM
    I’ve had women just randomly volunteer that their ex-boyfriends used to hit them within minutes of flirting with them

    although the volunteering itself may indeed be random, the woman’s deeper mining of information from your instant response will not be random at all.

    you need to think very carefully before you react to statements such as this — statements that will draw different responses from alphas than from betas.
    in fact, this is the very essence of “shit test”.
    so the statement you are citing is indeed a shit test. in the extremely unlikely event that it’s conscious, it’s a very clever shit test indeed.

    the point of accumulating extensive experience with women is so that you can “think very carefully” in the 0.5-1 second required to produce a normal human emotional response.

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  219. on June 20, 2010 at 6:48 pm xsplat

    “My ex boyfriend used to hit me.” (Sad little poor me, won’t you save me from the bad men look on her face)

    “Oh ya? Can I try?” Raise a hand.

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  220. on June 20, 2010 at 6:49 pm Höllenhund

    betadyourmom:

    I present to you a thought experiment.

    A genie appears to 10 average beta guys and gives them the following offer: “From now on you have the opportunity to fuck a gorgeous girl every three days. You can only have sex with each of these girls once. You cannot try to form any relationship with them, you cannot even ask them their name. But you can use each of them sexually in any way you wish for one night”.

    Then the genie offers the same opportunity to 10 average girls – the obvious difference is that they get to fuck alpha studs.

    Do you seriously think that an equal number of girls and beta guys would accept the offer? I hope you got my point.

    Let’s consider a different thing: prostitution. The majority of its consumers anywhere are men, not women. In other words, there is huge male demand for casual sex. Even in the most sexually liberal countries there are much more female then male prostitutes. How do you explain that?

    “Instead, the usual behavior I see is that men will quickly “settle” for the first half-decent girl who will have them. Meanwhile women would rather “date” (have short term flings) or be a fuck-buddy instead of getting into a LTR with someone beneath them.”

    The explanation is staring you in the face: most men will quickly settle because they have no (or few) options. Yes, women would rather “date” – because unlike men, most of them have options when it comes to casual sex. The average (beta) male cannot become the fuckbuddy of any girl because he has few opportunities to do so.

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  221. on June 20, 2010 at 6:56 pm walawala

    Ummm…..

    Losing your shit with anyone is….beta.

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  222. on June 20, 2010 at 7:02 pm johnny five

    hollenhund
    Do you seriously think that an equal number of girls and beta guys would accept the offer? I hope you got my point

    if indeed the rates of acceptance differed, the difference would be a result of the inherent asymmetry in your preconditions.
    in particular, your precondition that “you cannot even ask their name” automatically shuts off the top tier of attractiveness in women’s terms.
    member that women’s notion of attractiveness is largely defined in terms of social proof; if a man is nameless and faceless, then there is no social proof to back up any notion of “alpha”. therefore, you are stacking the deck in favor of your argument, so your argument carries little weight.

    if you think that women do not throw themselves at high-status men with the same, or even greater, intensity then do beta orbiters at beautiful women, there is a whole dark side of the female psyche that you would do well to explore.

    short version:
    do you think all those women throwing their panties at frank sinatra really would have cared whether they could ensnare him into a long-term relationship?

    now, consider that EVERY social circle has its own equivalent of frank sinatra, since status is relative.
    every
    single
    one.
    friend, women do things that would make your face turn white.
    and they do them all the time.
    because they can.
    and because the men outside the inner circle will never know. with attitudes like yours, they would probably never know even if the proceedings were streamed live over the internet.

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  223. on June 20, 2010 at 7:03 pm xsplat

    Walawala, refusing to own and express your anger out of fear of it being inappropriate is … beta.

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  224. on June 20, 2010 at 7:05 pm cpike

    I’ve got a large vocabulary but even I had to look up ‘immane’. And that in a ‘pickup blog’.

    Respect.

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  225. on June 20, 2010 at 7:05 pm xsplat

    And regardless . What would rather be. A beta who women want to fuck, or an alpha who gets constantly shit tested? Or an alpha who remains alone because women are constantly shit testing.

    Look – A,B,C,D,E,F,G. Who cares what letter you are. You do what works.

    See if what I say works. Yes or no. That’s all.

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  226. on June 20, 2010 at 7:05 pm johnny five

    Ummm…..

    Losing your shit with anyone is….beta

    why would you automatically equate physical aggression with “losing your shit”?

    this is the essence of data, distilled to one of the greatest concentrations i’ve seen — the assumption that aggression and control are mutually exclusive.

    walawala, i’m a boxing coach. i would know a thing or two about channeling aggression in a controlled manner.
    why don’t you think that aggression — both emotional and physical — can be properly channeled and controlled in intimate relationship, in the same sort of way?

    there is a whole big world out there that you haven’t even tasted.

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  227. on June 20, 2010 at 7:06 pm johnny five

    *data –> beta.

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  228. on June 20, 2010 at 7:12 pm betadyourmom

    johnny five – I learned a long time ago that I prefer a “d/s” relationship in my own fashion, so you can keep your jargony bondage nerd journals. And “class is in session”?

    I am not even sure what we are in disagreement about. The *typical* non-dominant man who begs his woman for sex is not going to keep her in line by fucking her brains out. Wrong?

    My policy is to never display rage towards women, nor argue with them, nor engage in any sort of passive-aggressive behavior. Its a game that women have infinite capacity to play and one in which you will always be defeated eventually. The simplest way to win is not to play.
    If a woman can’t get under your skin, her immediate instinct is to drop to her knees, and that is exactly what I want.

    The woman’s role in a relationship is to provide comfort at home and pleasure in bed. Drama and anger are completely foreign to that end in my world. Maintaining that basic expectation isn’t exactly what the typical BSDM types call “dominance” but it works OK for me.

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  229. on June 20, 2010 at 7:15 pm xsplat

    Here is another anecdote about controlled use of forceful anger.

    I was out buying rabbits with a girl I had recently met and moved in on the first date. She was getting irritated at my hard bargaining with the clerks, and was getting rudely bitchy. Extreme, in your face, blatant nagging.

    I let it go on for a while, see if it would self correct. And then I bellowed, at the top of my deep thunderous voice, “DON’T…. TALK TO ME… LIKE THAT!”

    Then walked away.

    Embarrass me publicly? I don’t think so. I made her 1 inch tall.

    She was too pissed to get on the back of my motorcycle to go home with me.

    This was a pivotal point in the early stages of our relationship. I leave it to your imagination to decide how things went next.

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  230. on June 20, 2010 at 7:20 pm betadyourmom

    @johnny five — “you need to think very carefully before you react to statements such as this — statements that will draw different responses from alphas than from betas.
    in fact, this is the very essence of “shit test”.”

    Yeah, its either a shit-test whether you will beat her just like her step-daddy did, or whether you’re a white knight save-a-ho. Either way it not anything I want to be part of.

    Maybe if she was exceptionally hot. But good-looking women generally have enough “game” to not babble about their terrible ex-boyfriends to guys at the bar.

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  231. on June 20, 2010 at 7:25 pm xsplat

    Yes, BYM, the psycho women are good only as training. They are an extreme sport. A dangerous sport. Viscous and cruel and cold, and yet the most fun you can ever have. Nearly impossible to tame, even temporarily, and completely impossible to tame permanently.

    Excellent training.

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  232. on June 20, 2010 at 7:26 pm Sultan

    People, get schooled in being an Alpha, watch George Clooney in From Dusk Till Dawn. Unrelated but I thought I’d post it here.

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  233. on June 20, 2010 at 7:28 pm betadyourmom

    @Höllenhund – “A genie appears to 10 average beta guys and gives them the following offer: “From now on you have the opportunity to fuck a gorgeous girl every three days. You can only have sex with each of these girls once. You cannot try to form any relationship with them, you cannot even ask them their name. But you can use each of them sexually in any way you wish for one night”.”

    Honestly? You would have to convince at least half the guys that the girls were irredemable sluts who were molested by their uncles. In which case they might go for it but feel feminist guilt the entire time.

    Yes I believe the average guy is really that “beta”.

    This example is ridculous btw because the average dude is only rarely going to have sex with a free-love stranger. Its most likely going to be with an aquantiance or someone they consider potential dating material. And yes they do get extremely butthurt if it doesn’t turn into a real relationship.

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  234. on June 20, 2010 at 7:32 pm Guy

    ending italics, hopefully

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  235. on June 20, 2010 at 7:35 pm gig

    test

    WHy all my comments go into moderation?

    [editor: i don’t know, gig. maybe you’re being flagged as a soccer hooligan?]

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  236. on June 20, 2010 at 7:36 pm betadyourmom

    And prostitution — Supposedly johns develop a thing for their whores all of the time. An old roommate of mine wanted to fuck a black chick so he hired a hooker. He immediately went into save-a-hoe mode and freaked her the fuck out.

    And all those losers throwing their paychecks at strippers? They’re obviously looking for something more than just sex.

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  237. on June 20, 2010 at 7:51 pm Gorbachev

    @polymath

    Any regular chore a woman wants done, a man will want done eventually, but he will wait until the situation is more advanced before doing it, because he generally has better things to do with his time. Therefore, the woman thinks she is initiating 100% of the housework and it would never get done without her, and she gets resentful.

    This is it. Men just have a higher tolerance. You need to ignore her.

    Point it out and see if that works. If not, just make sure you have something else to do.

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  238. on June 20, 2010 at 7:54 pm Gorbachev

    @Philosopher:
    “Jews conspire to out-compete non-Jews for resources while undermining the power and self-confidence of the white majorities in Europe and America whom he insists Jews seek to disposess.”

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_B._MacDonald

    Every one of this guy’s arguments is easily refuted. It’s anti-semitic paranoia. Conspiracies – Masons – Catholics – Jews – Black Helicopters – man.

    Like black people thinking AIDS was invented to get them. Whatever.

    People are stupid.

    Jews are so internally divided, if you get 5 Jews in a room, you get 7 opinions and a small war.

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  239. on June 20, 2010 at 7:57 pm Gorbachev

    @Höllenhund
    Unlike Whiskey, I’m willing to cut Western women SOME slack. It’s not like they are purposefully speeding up moral decline with their sexual choices because they WANT to live in a violent, ignorant, chav-infested matriarchal ghetto.

    I think it’s rather that most young women are clueless about male sexuality and simply don’t understand cause and effect very well.
    I think what most women genuinely don’t understand is that they are encouraging exactly the types of male behaviour that a) they find revolting b) are causing social decline:
    – alphas pumping and dumping while avoiding commitment
    – resentful betas refusing to protect and pedestalize women, basically avoiding any contact with them
    – men under-investing in society by refusing to work the hardest they can plus avoiding marriage
    They just never connect the dots.

    This is the case. Women aren’t committing a conspiracy. They just don’t get it.

    They’re like bacteria poisoning their own environment with waste, wondering why the water tastes bad.

    There are some smart ones, but blaming them is beside the point. This is what they do.

    We have many conflicting instincts. Sexuality is one of them: Get a Beta to provide, fuck an occasional Alpha for genes. These are in conflict. Hence women, either way, act against their own interests.

    Men are the same, but simpler.

    It’s our job together to make sure it works. Alas, we stopped.

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  240. on June 20, 2010 at 8:04 pm Gorbachev

    @Thor
    Several issues here. Part of it is “the tragedy of the
    commons”. The actions that are good (however measured)
    for the individual are not necessarily good for society
    as a whole. Depending on the situation, many people,
    (both sexes) further their own goals first. No surprise,
    we are humans, not saints.

    This is why we need social awareness. Thank ye, Roissy. Roissy has the entire mating/dating sphere mapped out. It’s simple: First Principles.

    Worked out in practice, better than any sociology class.

    After several rounds of ONS/STR/semiLTR, the
    woman laments:
    “All men are pigs”
    “Men just won’t commit”
    “He took my best years”
    etc.
    Babe, play at your level if you want commitment!

    Women, especially young ones, have a grossly over-inflated view of their sexual mating value.

    They confuse two things:
    1) Desirability for sex
    2) Desirability for mating

    They’re not the same. At all.

    So women miss out and get resentful.

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  241. on June 20, 2010 at 8:12 pm Gorbachev

    @Thor

    I think the explanation is a lot simpler. The woman refuses
    to believe that her status has fallen. “I used to be a babe.
    I will always be a babe. Adding 20 years and 100 pounds SHOULD have nothing to do with it!”

    This is absolutely true. 40-something formerly hot, still slightly fuckable women act like they’re better than you and Hot Stuff. It’s sad to see. They’re extremely picky and spend most nights alone, and none of the semi-alphas they’re able to snag will settle with them – of course. And they’re always shocked and disappointed by this.

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  242. on June 20, 2010 at 8:15 pm Dave

    @simpleman: Read “Rotating Polyandry and its Enforcers” by Devlin. Many women have affairs and then remain in limbo – not willing to leave a marriage, but not willing to break off the affair. (Or vice versa). Women almost never leave a marriage unless they have a new boyfriend lined up. If a woman starts expressing a vague dissatisfaction with her spouse it is often a signal that she is considering straying or has already strayed. You should make it abundantly clear that you will not get jealous or rage about about her behavior if it matures to infidelity – you will simply divorce her in a flash without a second thought. You need to be able to express this to her in the coldest, most detached manner possible – as if you were the captain of a ship and a beloved but mutinous subordinate is putting the ship and everyone else’s well-being at risk – you would have no choice but to throw the mutineer – however beloved – overboard. You have to show her that you can “out-reptilian” her without a second thought.

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  243. on June 20, 2010 at 8:24 pm Gorbachev

    @Philosopher,

    Your anti-semitism isn’t really worth addressing it – it’s not sophisticated enough. MacDonald has been torn apart casual PC lefties a million times. He’s a bad spokesman for anti-semitism, because he’s a circuitous thinker and a bad academic. He’s basically a “Straw Man”, but sadly hasn’t yet realized it.

    if you want to ground your anti-semitism, you’re best off finding a better source. And, of course, there aren’t really any.

    But, …


    @PRCalDude ,
    @Philosopher,
    Jewish women co-opted 2nd and 3rd wave feminism because of their low status in the sexual market.

    I’d say this rings true. I’ll vote for it.

    Take a look through some of the pictures of these Jewish beauties, for instance. It was impossible for them to compete with much-prettier-on-average gentile WASP women on looks and personality alone, so they needed a Revolution that made them look hotter (corrolary to Sailer’s law).
    Feminism is for the “have-nots” amongst women in terms of looks and personality and for the hen-pecked beta clingers-on who aid them.

    Feminism is completely overstocked with very unattractive Jewish woman and fat women.

    It’s a stereotype because it’s true.

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  244. on June 20, 2010 at 8:30 pm Gorbachev

    @johnny

    “BYM
    I’ve had women just randomly volunteer that their ex-boyfriends used to hit them within minutes of flirting with them
    although the volunteering itself may indeed be random, the woman’s deeper mining of information from your instant response will not be random at all.”

    you need to think very carefully before you react to statements such as this — statements that will draw different responses from alphas than from betas.
    in fact, this is the very essence of “shit test”.
    so the statement you are citing is indeed a shit test. in the extremely unlikely event that it’s conscious, it’s a very clever shit test indeed.

    A good response to this:

    Her: “X used to hit me.”
    You: X DO NOT SAY: “That’s terrible. Men should never hit women.”
    You: “What did you do to him?”
    You: “Did you have it coming?”
    You: “Must have done something if he hit you.”
    You: “Sucks to be a woman.”

    Or something along these lines.

    Incidentally, I think hitting a woman might work with some women, often very well. They cleave to you like glue. Others will run, or hit back.

    My philosophy: Violence with women is counter-productive. Also gets you into trouble in this climate.

    Better to be above violence; just Be Better. You don’t need to threaten violence, because you can Walk Away at any moment. Threatening violence is for emotionally weak men.

    Much better to just tell a woman to Fuck Off and then ignore her. Also it’s legal.

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  245. on June 20, 2010 at 8:34 pm Dave

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  246. on June 20, 2010 at 8:35 pm Gorbachev

    @walawala

    Losing your shit with anyone is….beta.
    See all comments on this post here.

    Losing your shit might work some of the time. But it’s just so beta.

    I go for the Ricardo Montalban – Supreme Composure – Alpha any time. Actual violence seems so low-class and prole.

    You can smack someone with a carefully crafted word far more effectively than with a fist.

    Especially someone you’re intimate with.

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  247. on June 20, 2010 at 8:36 pm walawala

    @xsplat/Johnny Five

    “”Walawala, refusing to own and express your anger out of fear of it being inappropriate is … beta.””

    Is slapping or punching a woman who’s pissed you off the most appropriate expression of your anger?

    I would hope that me game is a bit more refined and subtle than that.

    How is getting physical and slapping a girl any different than calling her a disrespectful bitch for flaking on you?

    Can’t subscribe to any advice that advocates any type of violence. It solves nothing and only leads to more violence and escalation.

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  248. on June 20, 2010 at 8:40 pm JB

    Yeah, a lot of the advice to simpleman has been terrible. Listen to the poor guy. He’s stewing and regretting not having done something “at the time,” and he’s overthinking what he should have done. Those are precisely the kinds of excess effort, second guessing and resentfulness that make a relationship not worthwhile. My top priority in these situations is not keeping the girl interested in me, but keeping myself from growing so disgusted with the girl and the process of maintaining her that I walk off.

    That’s why teasing her about it as polymath suggested is also terrible – he’s pretty beta and if it’s even slightly incongruent it’ll burn in his craw worse than doing nothing. In fact any kind of overt acknowledgement of the situation that he tries to pull off will lead to more fighting and shit flinging, because he won’t do it with the 100% congruence of more advanced practitioners. Remember he said it was more like brief glances, not a full minute’s pause in conversation.

    Whether you’re taking an active confrontational or a passive takeaway approach, you need the pimp’s ice cold blood. It’s easier to practice this with the passive approach first, to subdue your beta instincts of appreciation and kindness and delusion. Repeated success with this strategy will internalize its truth. And then you can begin more confidently and congruently pulling the occasional active intervention, knowing you have the passive takeaway if you bobble it.

    In the long term, I think J5 is right that it’s hard to build controlled anger. I think “In Male Fide” is the best maxim for this. It’s the cruel antidote to my upbringing, which was trusting, peaceful, stable, innocent, and emasculating. A bit of Cesar Milan’s Calm Assertive Energy gives it a more thumotic edge, minus the “calm” part, which translates to “controlled” in fury situations.

    I think these maxims can shortcut a lot of the life experience one would otherwise need to “think quickly” in the 1 second available for an emotional decision.

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  249. on June 20, 2010 at 8:42 pm Gorbachev

    @johnny five
    if you think that women do not throw themselves at high-status men with the same, or even greater, intensity then do beta orbiters at beautiful women, there is a whole dark side of the female psyche that you would do well to explore.
    short version:
    friend, women do things that would make your face turn white.
    and they do them all the time.
    because they can.
    and because the men outside the inner circle will never know. with attitudes like yours, they would probably never know even if the proceedings were streamed live over the internet.

    In highschool. the hot women literally threw themselves at the 5-10% of the hottest (alphaest) guys.
    These guys fucked *them all*. Usually in turn, over 2 years.
    Same in college.

    This is where game would have helped. The Betas had no chance. Makes me angry: I could have been fucking them, too.

    And the betas who say they didn’t really want to, … are lying.

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  250. on June 20, 2010 at 8:58 pm Gorbachev

    @Sultan

    People, get schooled in being an Alpha, watch George Clooney in From Dusk Till Dawn. Unrelated but I thought I’d post it here.

    That’s great advice. Good character. Very emulatable.

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  251. on June 20, 2010 at 9:02 pm z

    The second and third paragraphs of this post bring “This is John Galt Speaking” to mind, if John Galt were waxing about the realities of sexuality and not economics. This is really impressive. I hope Charlotte Allen sees it.

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  252. on June 20, 2010 at 9:05 pm Badger Nation

    ” If a woman starts expressing a vague dissatisfaction with her spouse it is often a signal that she is considering straying or has already strayed. You should make it abundantly clear that you will not get jealous or rage about about her behavior if it matures to infidelity – you will simply divorce her in a flash without a second thought.”

    Devlin points out that this “dissatisfaction” may be a tactical opener…a typical husband will then try to “make his wife happy” by betatizing himself to her every little concern. Like God’s Perfect Beta, this doting enhances her feeling of resentment and boredom and drives her into actuating the divorce.

    It’s tragic in the truest sense of the word, a downfall caused by an intrinsic flaw. The flaw? Typical men want their woman to be happy, and think that supplicating to her will make her happy. Putting aside the fact you can’t “make” ANYBODY happy, marital doting evinces horror and condescension in women.

    This is another reason I just don’t even listen to specific complaints from a woman. Instead, I take them as complaints about my overall frame, improve the frame, and things get better…or if she really wants a beta bitch, I pull the ejection handle.

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  253. on June 20, 2010 at 9:13 pm Gorbachev

    @Dave

    – you would have no choice but to throw the mutineer – however beloved – overboard. You have to show her that you can “out-reptilian” her without a second thought.

    Dave is 100% correct. Have no doubts.

    Women use cold calculation, not emotion. They *decide* who to love. Men don’t.

    Despite their emotional appearance, when it comes to relationships, they run off 1) Base sexual instinct and 2) Calculation.

    When deciding who to fuck, they’re as cold and instinctive as crocodiles. She ‘ll leave you in a split second – trust me.

    Women complain about it when we say this, but it’s just observation backed up by evidence. Women have none of the mindless loyalty that men show towards women. Less attractive ones only appear to have this because they have fewer options. Give them some options and see what they do. Men, stupidly, will often stay. Women won’t.

    If you’re not ready to drop her like a rotten potato, then you have no hand and you’ll be tooled. Period. At the very least, you need to act like you’re willing to do this and carry it off properly.

    Every single male I’ve ever known has been in an identical situation at one time or another. The only reason women didn’t do this more in the past is because they’d be socially castigated or ostracized for it.

    Women are cold. They are crocodiles. They wait to be established with another guy and then drop your ass like you’re nuclear waste. *ALL* women do this. Me, you, the guy down the street – it’s all the same. Women even do it to Alphas. Their reasons are just that: Reasons. Not emotions.

    If you’re not prepared to do it, you’re just a tool for her to use until someone comes along who can dominate her properly.

    Always be prepared, and make sure: You do the dumping.
    If necessary.

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  254. on June 20, 2010 at 9:17 pm Dave

    That’s the point of “cruel to be kind” – if you’re always good to her you never give her the opportunity to feel gratitude. Thats the point of always doing less for her than she does for you.

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  255. on June 20, 2010 at 10:32 pm Philosopher

    @ Gorbachev

    I was responding to PRCalDude by quoting Wikipedia, not giving an opinion. That’s why I wrote “Wiki” and used quotes. ” ”

    Google Kevin MacDonald and read the Wikipedia entry. You’ll see the exact quote.

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  256. on June 20, 2010 at 10:36 pm ahappinessexperiment

    gorb, a lot of bitterness there.

    women arent always cold and calculating. they are most calculating when they r hot for a guy. they dont choose love. they pick a guy and try love on for size.

    but they r fickle. takes a guy like johnny 5 to keep stretching out their envelope lips by sucking and fucking and asscocking other variegated johns, allocating all profits to johnny, to keep them excited.

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  257. on June 20, 2010 at 11:35 pm polymath

    Getting back to simpleman,

    It has been pointed out that many if the suggestions to him were for “advanced practitioners”, and I agree that they could backfire badly for someone who did not have a lot of experience with them.

    My own suggestion of teasing was probably the least difficult of anything positive that could be done, but if simpleman can’t even control his emotions while doing that, he is in deep trouble.

    This why I disagree with JB saying

    That’s why teasing her about it as polymath suggested is also terrible – he’s pretty beta and if it’s even slightly incongruent it’ll burn in his craw worse than doing nothing. In fact any kind of overt acknowledgement of the situation that he tries to pull off will lead to more fighting and shit flinging, because he won’t do it with the 100% congruence of more advanced practitioners. Remember he said it was more like brief glances, not a full minute’s pause in conversation.

    JB is saying simpleman is so beta that nothing overt at all will work — but the only suggestion he offers is “passive takeaway”, and I don’t see how that gets the message across. I say you have to start active measures somewhere, and teasing is the least likely to blow up.

    More specifically: JB says

    The problem I have with j5s’ solution to simpleman’s ogling problem is that it involves overtly noticing an infraction that’s subtextual. That strikes me as risky and potentially weak. I’d rather give a subtextual answer, one that doesn’t appear connected to the infraction but addresses the attitude of disrespect. Either a takeaway like the one xsplat described or creating jealousy as Roissy’s recommended would work.

    For this to work she has to be able to connect the dots, and I don’t see how that happens without some overt statement, given his previous ignoring of the behavior.

    Remember that simpleman says his relationship is excellent except for this one issue — that she is already submissive, deferential, and loving.

    This means this is not necessarily a major shit test — it is a shit test of course, but she may not even realize how seriously it is bothering him. Even if she does, she has not done anything to deserve really harsh measures because so far he has not even told her to cut it out.

    Johnny five is completely right that simpleman should not show that he feels bothered. The question is how to get across that even if he is not bothered she still ought to stop.

    simpleman, I see three practical ways of handling this:

    1) Making fun of her is the best way because you don’t have to persuade her she OUGHT to stop, you just make it too embarrassing for her to continue. The only difficulty is sounding convincingly dismissive and unthreatened — but mental exercises, affirmations, and private practice of the specific things you want to say can get you over this hump.

    2) If you feel you really need to get across the message that her behavior is not only silly but completely unacceptable, that’s hard to do from the current state of affairs. However, it CAN be worked up to pretty quickly — first you say “cut out the ogling, it’s rude.” The second offence gets a reminder because she might have forgotten, but the third justifies really laying down the law because it has progressed from simple rudeness to direct disrespect. At that point you can get angry convincingly, and threaten consequences persuasively.

    3) The third way to handle this is a good long-term solution but your 1-year marriage may not be ready for it yet — it is to be so dominant sexually and fuck her so good that other men are merely tools to get her hornier — her reaction to them merely makes her want YOU to fuck her more because it is unimaginable that the random hot guys could do her like you do.

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  258. on June 21, 2010 at 12:07 am betadyourmom

    I would go with option #3.

    In fact it almost sounds as if simpleman’s wife is trying to provoke him into it.

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  259. on June 21, 2010 at 12:08 am Dave

    Real-life story – Jerry Seinfeld’s wife was previously married to a Jewish heir from Manhattan and the joke was when she divorced him that the heir gave her entree to better spas, health and appearance products, grooming and circle of friends so that when the opportunity to social climb came (only months after they were married) she was ready and grabbed it! By most men’s standards both her husbands were alphas. This is reptilian behavior at its best.

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  260. on June 21, 2010 at 12:20 am ahappinessexperiment

    when this place starts to sound like oprah for men, yet all the oprahs claim they r alpha, i wonder what men would say to other men should they ever meet.

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  261. on June 21, 2010 at 12:34 am Girls Like Me

    I think I threw up in my mouth a few times when reading that beta article. Disgusting.

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  262. on June 21, 2010 at 12:41 am JB

    Polymath, I stopped reading your post at “she has to be able to connect the dots.”

    No she doesn’t. The point is for her not to connect the dots. If she connects the dots, you’re right back at looking reactive, which is potentially dangerous.

    A cold shoulder takeaway works without any need to refer to a specific infraction. If you don’t know this your game is highly suspect. Which we already know, given your inverse mastery of the 2/3 principle.

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  263. on June 21, 2010 at 1:00 am ahappinessexperiment

    JB, keep teabagging.

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  264. on June 21, 2010 at 1:04 am polymath

    A cold shoulder takeaway works without any need to refer to a specific infraction.

    It might. I’m not saying simpleman shouldn’t try your suggestion first, just doubting whether, given the stage this has reached, it will be enough. I am not the only one disagreeing with you here — Johnny five, xsplat, and others are also recommending more explicit measures.

    If you don’t know this your game is highly suspect. Which we already know, given your inverse mastery of the 2/3 principle.

    Evidence, please? Now you’re just making shit up.

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  265. on June 21, 2010 at 1:13 am ahappinessexperiment

    u guys r a bunch of women overanalyzing everything. this site should be renamed Oprah For Men.

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  266. on June 21, 2010 at 1:39 am JB

    Polly, why do I get the feeling you’ve never done a takeaway in your life? You just keep talking and talking and talking, a nonstop stream of PUA flavored C&F verbal diarrhea spattered with chunks of undigested beta fatherliness. I pity the girl.

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  267. on June 21, 2010 at 3:27 am OneSTDV

    There is only estrogen, testosterone, eggs, and sperm. Those *are* the governing bodies of the world today. We have never lived in a world of harmonic convergence and ideologies, Mr. Jacobs. The world is an emergent phenomenon of the incessant, eternal quest for sex, Mr. Jacobs. It has been since man crawled out of the slime.

    It might be reductionist and nihilistic, but the truth’s the truth.

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  268. on June 21, 2010 at 3:54 am walawala

    @xsplat:

    “”Walwala – which do you think works best in a loving, serious, committed LTR.

    a) “Please pass the salt, Dear”

    b) “Please pass the salt.”

    c) “Pass the salt”

    d) “Pass the salt, woman.

    e) “Pass the salt, bitch.”””

    Stanley Kowalski Game..

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  269. on June 21, 2010 at 4:48 am Jerry

    The AJ article “My Life as a Hot Woman” and Roissy’s 2007 response to it reminds me of the classic September 2009 Roissy post “Safeway Siren”.

    In “Safeway Siren” Roissy describes a 45ish man seemingly overjoyed that he has a hot new foreign 18 year old nanny and is showing her the grocery store. He has to know that he will never get any of that action but he is thrilled anyway.

    I guess there are some low-lifes who feel that marrying an unattractive woman might at least help them have an excuse to hire a hot nanny to live with them as a non-sexual second wife for awhile.

    “Safeway Siren” is probably the best I’ve ever read criticizing monogamy and the rationalization hamsters of the men who support it.

    When I was 16 I was making out with a 15 year old nanny at the doctor’s house next door while she was babysitting. When the doctor and his wife came home, he realized that she had been making out with me and went ballistic. I was never allowed over again and he apparently yelled at her saying she was a “whore”. I

    His rationalization hamster had been telling him that she was the second wife…and she had betrayed him.

    Don’t ever get married if you think you might someday get turned on by having a hot new nanny in the house.

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  270. on June 21, 2010 at 5:33 am xsplat

    In highschool. the hot women literally threw themselves at the 5-10% of the hottest (alphaest) guys.
    These guys fucked *them all*. Usually in turn, over 2 years.
    Same in college.

    This is where game would have helped. The Betas had no chance. Makes me angry: I could have been fucking them, too.

    And the betas who say they didn’t really want to, … are lying.

    A few times I had girls throwing themselves at me. I totally blew it because at the time I couldn’t separate sex from romance. Didn’t even want one with the other.

    If I only knew then, what I know now, and all that.

    God, the bumbling mistakes…

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  271. on June 21, 2010 at 5:43 am xsplat

    Didn’t even want one without the other.

    I remember that scene in The Kids are Alright by The Who where happy Jack get’s “a bit of the other” in an alley and then the girl gets pissed off and disgusted at him for going “mental” about it.

    Sigghhhh. B.Y.M. is right. Oneitis is strong in those that haven’t had a lot. None-itis even can be bad. Unrequited romance. Uggghhhh…….

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  272. on June 21, 2010 at 6:01 am xsplat

    Incidentally, I think hitting a woman might work with some women, often very well. They cleave to you like glue. Others will run, or hit back.

    My philosophy: Violence with women is counter-productive. Also gets you into trouble in this climate.

    Better to be above violence; just Be Better. You don’t need to threaten violence, because you can Walk Away at any moment. Threatening violence is for emotionally weak men.

    Much better to just tell a woman to Fuck Off and then ignore her. Also it’s legal.

    I don’t have an easy way to talk about this subject. It’s not one that lends itself well to generalities. It’s so heavily context dependent, for one, but more than that is that violent actions are rarely planned, and the results can be surprising.

    I have only a little experience with it. Enough to know that some girls will provoke it, deliberately, and use that both to get a personal rise and fix of intense emotion, and to have hand over their man, and make him beg for forgiveness. And enough to know that some non-psycho girls will only take you seriously after you’ve displayed such intense emotion in that specific fashion. Did you know that some girls will say that they can’t know if their man loves them unless he hits her?

    I don’t have a taste for it, and had to leave the psycho one who cultivated violence in her life. Not only because she very often goaded and goaded trying to enrage me, but because of all the other manifestations of borderline personality disorder. My favorite manifestation though was long missed – the incredible sex and sex drive. Wow, what a nutso little hottie.

    I generally don’t use violence or the threat of it. I understand that even the subject makes people afraid – people all run around like headless chickens worrying that someone else will misconstrue. Misconstrue misconstrue misconstrue. Don’t worry about it. Men don’t like to hit women. We just don’t.

    And a slap is not beating a woman. Jeeez! MUST we conflate the concepts? Must we? Is it such a dangerous idea?

    Anyway, regarding the use of an isolated slap as part of emotional expression and disciplining your woman, I’m no longer against it. I personally find it distasteful and a last resort. But it’s a resort.

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  273. on June 21, 2010 at 6:13 am johnny five

    gorb:
    Same in college.

    gorbs, i don’t know how old you are, but, the smaller and more isolated the college, the randier the girls get in the spring.

    you can still get a pretty good simulacrum of the original college pussy buffet.
    grab a capable wingman.
    buy a cheap cargo van.
    put a couple of sleeping bags in the back.
    hit the road through benighted places that are overburdened with small colleges, such as rural new england and ohio.
    prepare flimsy pretexts for stopping in college towns for, uh, refreshment.
    the closer to the end of the school year, the better.
    spit reckless game.

    play ministry of truth and rewrite your college history.

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  274. on June 21, 2010 at 6:31 am Markku Jantunen

    I retract my earlier statement, and agree with R on this one. She was a 6 in her prime, and is now a 4 or 5.

    She looks awful to me. I hate the exposed gums and the overall boniness of her face. When a woman of the Mediterranean race looks bad, she tends to look bad in the way this woman does.

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  275. on June 21, 2010 at 6:35 am xsplat

    Woops – Quadrophenia, by The Who. Jimmy, not Happy Jack.

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  276. on June 21, 2010 at 7:02 am walawala

    Asshole game…

    This is how to respond to a shit test.

    It’s a great clip. Watch how the sense of entitlement in that woman wilts as Hank Moody starts out slow…and then flips the dynamic.

    He never loses his cool. He starts out sounding sincere and almost beta. But listen closely.

    I’ve time coded it:

    00: “Well Hank you seem to have me ALLLLL figured out…” Note the sarcasm, the baiting, the shit test.

    :09 “Getting your asshole bleached would be more fun” The friends warn her off. But of course, that only increases the allure.

    Hank :15 “I don’t think you want to do that….” again, the push-pull only increases the allure and attraction.

    Woman: :20 “Tell me about myself…that’s what writers do, they make up stuff” SHIT TEST… watch the cutaway of Hank. Cocky grin….slow….pacing…..doesn’t lose his shit…

    :59 watch the expression on her face start to shift from cocky to deflation…

    Neg: 1:10 “Fancy yourself a poor gal’s Martha Stewart…” Look at that expression. Gone is the sense of entitlement. Hank’s struck a nerve…. She is pissed….

    followed by the Nuclear Neg:

    “But what you really want to do is sit around the couch with some sap watching reality tv while he watches you get fat….”

    1:24: Now you’re giving me that look, like a finger-banged the cat..

    1:44 “I thought she liked me….”

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  277. on June 21, 2010 at 7:07 am JB

    For Chateau consideration:

    Abstract: Women are on average .8 to 1.24 SD more perceptive than men in body language and appearance.

    From “The Definitive Book of Body Language”

    The
    results of a simple experiment we conducted for a television
    programme showed that most people are generally not good at
    reading body language signals either. We set up a large mirror
    at the end of a long hotel lobby, giving the illusion that, as you
    entered the hotel, there was a long corridor going through the
    hotel and out the back of the lobby. We hung large plants from
    the ceiling to a distance of 5 feet above the floor so that, as
    each person entered the lobby, it looked as if another person
    was entering at the same time from the other end. The ‘other
    person’ was not readily recognisable because the plants
    covered their face, but you could clearly see their body and
    movement. Each guest observed the other ‘guest’ for five to six
    seconds before turning left to the reception desk. When asked
    if they had recognised the other ‘guest’, 85% of men answered
    no’. Most men had failed to recognise themselves in a mirror,
    one saying, ‘You mean that fat, ugly guy?’ Unsurprisingly, 58%
    of the women said it was a mirror and 30% said the other
    ‘guest’ looked ‘familiar’.

    summary: women are 4x more observant than men about body language and appearance. at a 15% noticing male threshold. Below the neck only.

    For another television show, we conducted an experiment with
    the co-operation of a local tourist bureau. Tourists entered the
    bureau to ask for information about local sightseeing and
    other tourist attractions. They were directed to a counter
    where they spoke with a tourism officer, a man with blond
    hair, a moustache, wearing a white shirt and tie. After a few
    minutes discussing possible itineraries, the man bent down out
    of sight below the counter to get some brochures. Then,
    another man with a clean-shaven face, dark hair and wearing
    a blue shirt appeared from beneath the counter holding the
    brochures. He continued the discussion from exactly where the
    first man had left off. Remarkably, around half the tourists
    failed to notice the change and men were twice as likely as
    women to completely miss the change, not only in body lan-
    guage but in the appearance of a completely new person!

    another data point: ppl=100. mnn+wnn=50ppl. mnn/wnn=2. mnn=2wnn. 2wnn+wnn=50ppl. wnn=16.6ppl. mnn=33.3ppl. wn=33.4ppl. mn=17.7ppl.
    ergo, women are 1.88x more observant at a 35% men noticing threshold. This included face and was close up.

    Let’s compare these data points using La Griffe du Lion’s method of thresholds:
    “For example, if Group A has a pass rate of 40% and Group B, 30%, the Excel formula “=normsinv(.40)-normsinv(.30)” returns the group mean difference of 0.271 SD.”

    put this into pass rate terms:
    ex 1 (hotel mirror) wpr=58%, mpr=15% => 1.24 SD mean difference (below the neck)
    ex 2 (counter switch) wpr=33.4/50=66% , mpr=17.7/50=35% => .8 SD mean difference (including head)

    The examples are not exactly the same – females appear to enjoy a much stronger advantage reading below the neck body language – which is more honest than facial expressions. Also, the variances for the male and female bell curves are almost certainly not the same. I am not sure how the variance issue would impact the results. I guess it would favor males. So the true mean difference is understated. Anyway, we’re looking at a difference in perceptivity equivalent to the difference between white and black IQ. In other words, a difference large enough to create an underclass and an overclass in the manipulation market.

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  278. on June 21, 2010 at 7:25 am JB

    Again from “The Definitive Book of Body Language”

    Research by psychologists at Harvard University showed
    how women are far more alert to body language than men.
    They showed short films, with the sound turned off, of a man
    and woman communicating, and the participants were asked
    to decode what was happening by reading the couple’s expres-
    sions. The research showed that women read the situation
    accurately 87% of the time while the men scored only 42%
    accuracy. Men in ‘nurturing’ occupations, such as artistic
    types, acting and nursing, did nearly as well as the women; gay
    men also scored well.

    method of thresholds gives value:
    1.33 SD mean difference

    Unlike the other experiments, this one involves 1. observation of communication and 2. the opposite sex. Women’s advantage only increases with the addition of elements realistic to PUA situations.

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  279. on June 21, 2010 at 8:12 am Höllenhund

    johnny five,

    “if indeed the rates of acceptance differed, the difference would be a result of the inherent asymmetry in your preconditions.
    in particular, your precondition that “you cannot even ask their name” automatically shuts off the top tier of attractiveness in women’s terms.”

    There is asymmetry of preconditions from a male and female POV. That’s exactly my point: women aren’t willing to engage in casual sex IN THE SAME WAY men are.

    “member that women’s notion of attractiveness is largely defined in terms of social proof; if a man is nameless and faceless, then there is no social proof to back up any notion of “alpha”. therefore, you are stacking the deck in favor of your argument, so your argument carries little weight.”

    “if you think that women do not throw themselves at high-status men with the same, or even greater, intensity then do beta orbiters at beautiful women, there is a whole dark side of the female psyche that you would do well to explore.”

    We aren’t disagreeing. You use different words but nevertheless you are expressing my original statement: The average guy would gladly pump and dump 50-60% of all women if he had the chance whereas the average girl would agree to get pumped and dumped by 10-15% of all men. There is a huge imbalance. That’s all I’m saying.

    betadyourmom,

    “Honestly? You would have to convince at least half the guys that the girls were irredemable sluts who were molested by their uncles. In which case they might go for it but feel feminist guilt the entire time.

    Yes I believe the average guy is really that “beta”.”

    Man, what country do you live in? Are most guys really that beta over there? WTF?

    “This example is ridculous btw because the average dude is only rarely going to have sex with a free-love stranger.”

    It was a thought experiment, not an example – which is why it’s unrealistic. But it proves a point. Why is the average dude only rarely getting causal sex? Because women don’t desire it in the same way men do. ’nuff said.

    Gorbachev,

    “We have many conflicting instincts. Sexuality is one of them: Get a Beta to provide, fuck an occasional Alpha for genes. These are in conflict.”

    These are not in any way in conflict. A woman that manages to do that gets the best of both worlds.

    On the other hand, men’s and women’s reproductive strategies are definitely in conflict, which is why we have the never-ending ‘battle of the sexes’.

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  280. on June 21, 2010 at 8:31 am Badger Nation

    That clip was funny as shit. Straight-up serving someone isn’t the most effective game, but man sometimes it feels so good to put some lawyer-chick type in her place. (Ditto AMOGing dumbass frat guys.)

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  281. on June 21, 2010 at 8:38 am johnny five

    hollenhund:
    The average guy would gladly pump and dump 50-60% of all women if he had the chance whereas the average girl would agree to get pumped and dumped by 10-15% of all men

    you’re moving the goalposts here, however unintentionally.

    your original question was this:
    Do you seriously think that an equal number of girls and beta guys would accept the offer?
    (emphasis mine)
    i read this as, would the same % of girls agree to fucking the alphas as the % of betas agreeing to fuck the girls?
    to which the answer is “yes; in fact, probably a higher % of girls”.

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  282. on June 21, 2010 at 8:45 am Badger Nation

    “I think it’s rather that most young women are clueless about male sexuality and simply don’t understand cause and effect very well. They want to have sex with alphas while shunning betas and they will do exactly that if they can”

    I’ve noticed in many young women I meet a complete lack of understanding of male psychology, let alone sexuality. They really have no idea how men work, because they’ve been raised with the idea that men aren’t worth understanding. Most of them come out of college without having had a boyfriend or a sound sexual partner at all – just some hookups where they get taken to lunch by rudimentary game thanks to their complete lack of sophistication with men, or a bad-sex mutually-clingy single LTR which functions more like an emotional suicide pact. (These are the types who will then lament “I’ve never gotten to date around!”)

    Another source of this cluelessness is the fact that easy credit (fiat money!) means many college kids don’t have the undergo the privation that used to be the hallmark of student life. People can now outfit their wardrobes, go on vacations and hit up the best clubs every weekend, and pay for it for the next ten years or more. So they are just out of touch with the world in general which feeds their entitlement complexes.

    And most aggravating, they are completely clueless as to what “level” they are at in the dating market. Some make the cardinal mistake of thinking that if they exhibit the traits they want in a man a good man will want them…this ball-busting strategy obviously brings annoying beta males which further maddens the confused hens.

    For all their carping about double standards, most young women I know play a very simple double-standard game – “if a guy does it (uses me for sex, messes with my head, doesn’t “commit,” whatever) it’s bad, but if I do it it’s OK.” And the sisterhood screams YES!

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  283. on June 21, 2010 at 8:48 am xsplat

    A good response to this:

    Her: “X used to hit me.”
    You: X DO NOT SAY: “That’s terrible. Men should never hit women.”
    You: “What did you do to him?”
    You: “Did you have it coming?”
    You: “Must have done something if he hit you.”
    You: “Sucks to be a woman.”

    I’ve had both responses to the same girl. As a modestly experienced romantically inclined male, I dated her on and off for a few years – inviting her to fly from Bali to visit me for 6 months at a time – about the time it would take to get sick of her shit.

    When I first met her she’d mentioned something about a boyfriend who used to hit her and I was appalled and could not conceive of why on earth she’d hang around for that. She deserved better, and thank goodness that’s over with and she’s free of that sickness.

    On meeting up for old time’s sake while in Bali, she mentioned that her boyfriend sometimes hit her. All I asked her was “Did you deserve it?” All she said was “yes”.

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  284. on June 21, 2010 at 8:57 am PA

    Trimegistus had the best and most practical advice for Simpleman:

    Next time she does it, reach out and turn her head to face yours, and say in a completely serious voice “If you look at him again I’m leaving.” Be ready to follow up — get in the car and go home, with or without her.

    If she runs out into the parking lot in tears after you, stop and take her home. Have the whole serious & concerned discussion.

    If she doesn’t run after you . . . go home, pack up your stuff, change all your passwords, and pick a city you’ve always wanted to live in.

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  285. on June 21, 2010 at 9:06 am xsplat

    Nuther anecdote. I often have hot eyes, and their gaze scans around to bore into the eyes of any hot woman. My GF thought to teach me a lesson one day, and made a huge show of staring intently at hot guys at the lounge; meeting their gaze and not looking away.

    I told her to be more discreet. I said to do it in a way that I didn’t notice, otherwise it’s disrespectful.

    I never changed my own habits – I do try to be discreet.

    A woman publicly embarrassing the man is a serious signal. I would have escalated if she persisted, but she dropped it after that quiet conversation. That was the crazy one, too.

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  286. on June 21, 2010 at 9:18 am The Editor

    Amen!

    women love brutes…as long as they are sexually attractive to us! when I ask you to do something for me, it could be a shit test…

    Rock on Chateau.

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  287. on June 21, 2010 at 9:28 am Anonymous

    This blog is written by a woman.

    LikeLike


  288. on June 21, 2010 at 9:41 am jack

    why the fuck is everyone writing in italics? stupid fucks

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  289. on June 21, 2010 at 11:17 am Anonymous

    whiskey:
    India’s problem is too many Alphas.

    Have you ever been to India? If that’s your image of it, you obviously haven’t. Go there and you will be an colossus, striding heedlessly through supplicating hordes who just assume your superiority. Yes, a big part of it is the wealth difference, but somehow I doubt you’d have the same experience in Haiti.

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  290. on June 21, 2010 at 11:33 am xsplat

    Another tip for role play fun to give the woman dominance without her having to ask for it with “punish me” behavior: when your girl is just quietly cooking away, or otherwise minding her business, say with a short and commanding tone “Stop talking, Woman!”.

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  291. on June 21, 2010 at 12:48 pm simpleman

    So I told her we had to have a talk. That I wasn’t impressed with her staring at another man right in front of me. She denied it, said she was merely people watching, and I said, No, that was checking out a hot guy. She said no, they were having a conversation and I was just —

    No, I said. I know what it was. Right in front of me.

    I told her I didn’t have to stay with her, that she shouldn’t be taking me for granted. She broke down in tears, telling me I was wrong, and that she didn’t take me for granted. She got on her knees in front of me and looked into my eyes, tears streaming down her face.

    I told her if I was wrong and she wasn’t looking at the guy, why was she so sorry. I was wrong, she said, but she didn’t want me to feel this way. I said fuck how I feel, it’s not going to happen again, or she could go spend the night at her parents place. The next time it happened. If it continued to happen then she could go pack up and leave.

    I told her we all take a look now and again, sure, but that was right in front of me and not acceptable. Maybe we have issues that you need to think about.

    I told her If I check out a woman, I wouldn’t be so disrespectful or oblivious to the fact that my wife was right next to me.

    I was angry but calm. I even brought up another incident from about a year ago that’s been in the back of my mind. She again denied it but I said you seem to remember the guy though.

    I again repeated that my warning. I was cold and unresponsive the rest of the night. She kept touching me, trying to talk to me. Even this morning. Still touching me, looking at me with these sad eyes, waiting for me to say something. Which I don’t. I just look at her until she looks away.

    Did make one mistake tho. After my “lecture”, I told her she could go alone to the in-laws dinner last night. And I was serious (I thought).

    She repeatedly asked me to come but I started up again with if it happens again etc…she started crying again. Put on her shoes and walked out. I felt bad, she was bawling, also that it would look bad being father’s day and all and me being a no show, so I opened the door and stopped her. I said I would go. And I did.

    I thought this might be “giving in” but I did it anyway. But still ignoring her up to this morning.

    It’s almost like…if I was wrong, why isn’t she angry at me (she was at first last night) instead of supplicating and all.

    I know I have to “train” and set the tone, and all that. But a part of me IS offended, and IS kind of disgusted. Like, sure, I’ll be the man and lay down the law, but maybe I don’t want to have to if she feels she needs to do that in front of me.

    Like I said, the thing that’s throwing me is that everything else is super amazing between us. And I am pretty alpha with her, contrary to what some of you have said. I have been since day one with her. If I say jump she says how hi.

    But either I’m not alpha enough, or she just can’t help but look at pretty boys when she sees em.

    Either way it blows.

    Where the hell is greatbooksformen to set my ass straight with butthexing rants.

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  292. on June 21, 2010 at 1:18 pm xsplat

    Simpleman, your instincts were right and your actions perfect. Job well done.

    In the future you may find that you brood less after correcting bad behavior. What pisses me off is when the woman is in my face disrespecting reality and her role in misbehavior, AND refusing to change behavior. That riles. But your girl was properly compliant and repentant. So that helps to let it go.

    What I’ve found in my own personality is a change towards being both quick to anger, and quick to forgive.

    Order of operations:
    * forestall problems through meeting her emotional needs, especially her need for dominance
    * hint at not doing the bad behavior. Use indirect stories, humor, general mood of being pissed off
    * tell her to not do that
    * make a takeaway, like saying you are pissed and she should visit relatives, or go out late
    * shout her down
    * only very rarely, if she is being directly confrontation to your sexual ownership of you, when you know you do own her and you know she does love you and she has already committed to you, only in extreme situations of blatant infidelity or planned infidelity or pretend infidelity, where she won’t shut the fuck up or stop the bullshit, and just won’t quit, physical dominance of some sort. Carry or even drag her out the house and lock the door. Almost never, slap when it’s not during sex.
    * make her take a relationship time out
    * go on a vacation
    * leave her.

    Your emotions spoke accurately to you and you listened and acted on them properly.

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  293. on June 21, 2010 at 1:40 pm simpleman

    xsplat: Thanks man.

    Your order of operations is a natural progression that hopefully does not need to happen to that full extent. But again, as this board and Roissy/Chateau illustrate, gaming and being dominant are key here.

    The trick now is now as you say, brooding less after correcting bad behavior. Merging back into my usual jokey smart ass self.
    Without letting her think all is forgotten etc.

    Or maybe that’s the point. Getting back to life as normal after the law has been laid down.

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  294. on June 21, 2010 at 1:43 pm polymath

    simpleman,

    You handled that pretty well.

    Your girl may just have a particular weakness for this (that is, a male level of visual sexual arousal, which she has never had to learn to keep under control like men do because men get called on it by cockblocking bystanders).

    If that’s true, then she just has to learn to keep it under control like men do, and she’s not really shit testing you. It sort of comes down to whether she is simply enjoying the view or fantasizing actively.

    Next time this happens, you are going to have to judge for yourself whether this is just a natural weakness to look or whether she is consciously sneaking peeks to arouse herself. As long as you keep it focused on “it’s rude/disrespectful to do this around me” I think you will be able to keep her in line. What won’t work is to tell her “you shouldn’t even be thinking about other men” or “you shouldn’t be enjoying this, there is something wrong with you”. That sets you up for trouble — behavior she can control, thoughts she can’t, until you are a much more advanced practitioner and can condition her so that she won’t even think about other men (which I personally think is not worth doing unless she has been a slut in the past).

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  295. on June 21, 2010 at 2:10 pm simpleman

    Polymath said:

    —
    Your girl may just have a particular weakness for this (that is, a male level of visual sexual arousal, which she has never had to learn to keep under control like men do because men get called on it by cockblocking bystanders).
    —

    That could be true…doesn’t sound nice though does it. Male level. If it’s anything like my level…shudder.

    —
    If that’s true, then she just has to learn to keep it under control like men do, and she’s not really shit testing you. It sort of comes down to whether she is simply enjoying the view or fantasizing actively.
    —

    That’s an interesting hair to split. As for me, a male, well,
    yes, I look all the time. Beyond all the time. I’m scanning everything that moves when I’m walking this urban jungle. And it’s non stop (both the looking and the oncoming “prey”). Do I feel like a hypocrite for my long rant after admitting this? Should I?

    —
    Next time this happens, you are going to have to judge for yourself whether this is just a natural weakness to look or whether she is consciously sneaking peeks to arouse herself.
    —

    Hopefully won’t have to report back with too many field reports on that one…but that would be a tough call.

    —
    As long as you keep it focused on “it’s rude/disrespectful to do this around me” I think you will be able to keep her in line. What won’t work is to tell her “you shouldn’t even be thinking about other men” or “you shouldn’t be enjoying this, there is something wrong with you”.
    —

    Right. Even though I feel both of those things…”you shouldn’t even be thinking about other men.”

    But that is obviously, even to me, not the way to go with something like this. The disrespect is really what it comes down to.

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  296. on June 21, 2010 at 6:57 pm JB

    Simpleman, at some point in your future game, you may sit down and ask yourself:

    Could I have gotten everything I wanted from my wife in this situation, without all the crying and arguing?

    You DID use a takeaway, a strong one, a justified one. Your only mistake was explaining why to her.

    Because the blatant disrespect you noticed, isn’t the only one she’s been giving you, and she knows it, and she’d fear you more if she wasn’t sure what triggered the punishment. On a subconscious level, of course.

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  297. on June 21, 2010 at 7:44 pm Schmoe

    @simpleman,
    the fact that you know that the guys she is ogling are “good looking” indicates that you are gay. See if you can game one of them.

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  298. on June 21, 2010 at 10:38 pm simpleman

    Schmoe said

    @simpleman,
    the fact that you know that the guys she is ogling are “good looking” indicates that you are gay. See if you can game one of them.

    Maybe you missed that part in my post, Schmoe. I did game them. After I number closed, I took the wife home and acted cold to her. Later, lights out, I snuck out for a secret rendevouz.

    Damn, I got problems, huh?

    All because of fiat dollars no less.

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  299. on June 21, 2010 at 10:39 pm simpleman

    JB,

    — You DID use a takeaway, a strong one, a justified one. Your only mistake was explaining why to her.

    Because the blatant disrespect you noticed, isn’t the only one she’s been giving you, and she knows it, and she’d fear you more if she wasn’t sure what triggered the punishment. On a subconscious level, of course.—

    What other disrespect do you mean, JB?

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  300. on June 21, 2010 at 10:49 pm xsplat

    Simpleman, we’re not sure how to take advice from JB about matters with girls. He is currently single and will only date women who will agree to marry and have babies with him.

    He’s not a virgin, but has no interest in casual dating and has never married. So, not sure if he’s just a keyboard jockey, or what.

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  301. on June 21, 2010 at 11:27 pm JB

    Simpleman, if she’s been ogling other guys, your relationship is far from perfect. Even if you haven’t noticed her disrespecting you in other ways, she nonetheless has been. It’s never a single instance. Women are holistic. That’s why you don’t need to name an infraction.

    Xsplat, you’re an idiot surrounded by low-IQ enablettes. I’m not single. And I’m not getting married.

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  302. on June 21, 2010 at 11:43 pm xsplat

    I might be wrong – but I’m just following the clues from a previous conversation. You said you greatly prefer virgins (you may have said that in stronger terms, I forget), that you don’t casually date, and that you would only have sex with a woman who would become so bonded to you as to be a lifelong partner to have babies with. But that you’d prefer to have more than one wife.

    Did I get any of that wrong?

    You can see how I’d assume you are single.

    Or that if you are not single, you aren’t fucking.

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  303. on June 21, 2010 at 11:50 pm xsplat

    I’ve inferred from your comments JB that you have had few if any sexual relationships other than maybe one night stands or very brief flings.

    So, sounds like keyboard jockying to me.

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  304. on June 22, 2010 at 5:00 am JB

    It is rather endearing the way you follow the clues. It reminds one of how a true hellripper can leave beta guts all over the thread, to see a clown like you tossing nerf balls.

    Due to the flareup of a lifelong chronic illness, game has been my main source of economic and frankly life support for over six months. I’d never have had the freedom to self-experiment and cure myself if I’d been unable to manage my LTR while at zero energy and negative charisma for weeks and months at a time.

    If you were more perceptive, you’d recognize my current preference for vertically integrated LTRs as a rebound from fucking around well beyond my moral comfort zone, not the result of never having tried it. You’d have predicted more LTRs, not flings.

    J5’s enlightened me on the proper appreciation of sluts.

    “You can see how I’d assume you are single or… aren’t fucking”

    First words I heard this morning: “You make me come so hard.”

    A while after.

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  305. on June 22, 2010 at 5:07 am xsplat

    Well, that’s great JB, but then I can’t see how it matches up with the other stuff you were saying about virgins and sex only with girls who you want life long bonds with.

    I guess it doesn’t.

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  306. on June 22, 2010 at 5:11 am xsplat

    I’ve been recovering from very bad health as well, and wish you well with your recovery.

    I’m not sure what your situation is, but if I relied on doctors, I’d be fucked. As it is, I should be fine. Me too, stamina and libido was wayyy down. That reason, plus I need time to reset my dating clock after losing the last one, are reasons I’m holding off from getting back in the game.

    But I’m almost back…

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  307. on June 22, 2010 at 5:32 am JB

    Ok, peace brother.

    What did you have? Basically, I have to eat an all meat diet, and can’t eat anything agricultural. There’s really no name for it. Doctors were totally useless.

    Have you ever tried Tongkat Ali? Stuff works. LJ100. Same with Cordyceps Sinensis, a gem from my current neck of the woods. It’s cheap when grown in HK.

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  308. on June 22, 2010 at 5:46 am xsplat

    My health situation is complicated and I’ll keep the details private, but a great deal of research has me following the best possible regimen of both safe and effective cures and supplements. In three months I’ll already be doing fairly well, but will be starting a regiment that will cost about 7 grand every two months, for up to a year. Which is fine – the need for more cash is actually a good thing, as I’ve recently started a major business expansion, which should affect the rest of my life. Necessity is the mother, and all that. As an entrepreneur I won’t be dipping into savings, but increasing my income over what I would have bothered to make without the need.

    Also, the ill health got me to stop drinking, which would have killed me, the way I was at it. The mind seems clearer this year.

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  309. on June 22, 2010 at 5:53 am xsplat

    I’m sure you have already looked into leaky gut, syndrome, JB. That’s part of my problem. You can email me from the contact on my blog if you want info stuff that helps with that. Leaky gut goes hand in hand with food allergies, auto-immune and generalized inflammation problems. It’s quite difficult to treat.

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  310. on June 22, 2010 at 8:26 am Jerry

    @simpleman

    A lot of the above advice given to you seems to assume that it is OK and natural for *you* to have One-Itis and be monogamous with your wife (although I am sure most don’t really mean that considering what blog we are on).

    Now I am not suggesting that you and your wife should not remain monogamous with each other, I would still advise you to take her to a couple’s club to test her real interest in having sex with other men (and your interest in having sex with other women, because, believe me, there are some smoking hot wives who do this sort of stuff despite the fact that the average wife doing this is old and unattractive).

    You can always say that you are both only going to watch the proceedings. There is no need to say “let’s start the swinging lifestyle honey” right away.

    Many couples also just fool around with each other without penetration happening.

    This is called “the lifestyle” by those who practice it.

    Doing this will cure her right quick if she isn’t interested in other men. If she is, well you are going to have a lot of fun as well because the barter system is such that, if your woman is the second hottest in the room, you get to be with the hottest.

    Many men would kill to have a partner who is willing to swing. In the 2000s, you wouldn’t believe the amount of great looking women who are in LTRs but actively cruise with their man for other couples.

    When I’ve been on dates with hot women in the USA, we’ve often been approached by other couples. Sometimes I picked up on what the other couple was aiming at and it looked good to me. Usually the woman I was with was clueless and/or would be mortified to know what the others had in mind (but you can train them into not being mortified).

    On top of that, left wing men in the USA are now granting their wives the right to have an extra man on the side as long as the husband gets to watch. These are beta husbands who do *not* demand the same right.

    These women are not on the Ashley Madison website which is a total hoax for suckers. They are, however, on Match.com and other normal venues. They don’t reveal their situation until the first date.

    I was on a first date once with a woman who told me her husband was waiting outside in the car and would come in to meet me shortly. I didn’t catch on that she was interviewing me about being the second man (they regularly went nude camping). I then stupidly started arguing with her about the Iraq War. I was so beta that I didn’t know what had been going on.

    But other times I caught on and executed my role properly…while the hubbie watched.

    You wouldn’t believe the amount of men who want to watch as their partner gets it.

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  311. on June 22, 2010 at 2:27 pm simpleman

    What I find challenging now is morphing back into a somewhat regular interaction with the LTR/wife after the “throwdown”.

    After another night of ignoring her and showing up home late, she again apologized to me for making me even think that it was anything but people watching, etc. I restated my ultimatum, calmly, almost bored, and after boring into me with a pleading look in her eyes, she practically couldn’t stop kissing me. We then had some intense sex.

    Again, I want to get back to a normal kind of behavior. This brooding thing really does takes its on toll on me. But I don’t want to just return to an “everything’s OK” kind of vibe right away. Firstly because I don’t really feel that way, but more importantly because I think that would undermine my “takeaway” the other night. I don’t think she deserves the camaraderie of that yet.

    Would that be laying it on too thick? Should I move on — mission accomplished?

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  312. on June 22, 2010 at 2:47 pm xsplat

    The way I look at it is that it’s my job to be the good mood in my house. If the woman interupts that with throwing a mood, she gets shouted and down and told to cut it out. I don’t stand for it. But the correction I make to bad behavior must be overwhelmingly balanced by the strength of the good mood in my house.

    The message is, I give great mood better than anyone else. And I give horrible mood better than anyone else. What she learns is that compliance makes her happy, and anything else fucks her over.

    And like you did, you make a deep threat of the major final takeaway.

    So really, there is no need to brood. If she messes up, it’s fine, cause it will give you the opportunity to ramp up the feedback. She doesn’t have to have learned her lesson.

    When paper training a puppy, it’s not necessarily even best to have it take on the first nose rubbing. The entire process allows that dog to know whose bosss. The dog will test boundaries. It’s all opportunities to make that dog the happiest most tail waggingest little devoted puppy you can make it. It would be bad for you if the puppy started out knowing where to poop.

    So ya, you are responsible for the mood in your house. That is your job. So is correcting bad behavior. You have to be snappy in both directions. Quick to punish, quick to forgive. Punish huge, and give loving feelings in the house huge. Be larger than life.

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  313. on June 22, 2010 at 2:56 pm simpleman

    Gotcha. I think this is just what I need to know for now.

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  314. on June 22, 2010 at 2:59 pm xsplat

    By the way, as a kid reading of Gandalf in Lord of the Rings, I was appalled that this wise, kind, and powerful man was characterized as quick to anger, quick to forgive. I thought anger was a lack of control. A kind of weakness.

    I don’t think like that any more. I have more respect for that emotion. It’s not “bad”.

    Getting stuck there uncontrollably is less strategic than not going there to begin with. If you can’t use wield the anger well, it’s going to be a heavy, clumsy, awkward and dangerous tool you can cut yourself with. But if you are nimble with it, you can safely wield it to good use – it’s a multipurpose tool you can use to open cans with.

    What happened with me was that I found out that pretty well all women do horrible shit that really pisses me off. Horrible, horrible shit. I wouldn’t say that I’ve gotten used to it – I put up with less shit than ever – it’s just that I now see it as normal. It’s not an aberration. Women are simply not nice. Certainly not nice unless you train them very tightly.

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  315. on June 22, 2010 at 3:17 pm xsplat

    More…

    In essence, you are taking on a specialist role in the house. You assume a certain division of labor as your responsibility. Rather than having her have to think for herself about what is right and wrong, you lead.

    Different parents will have different rules in their households, different child rearing styles. The kids don’t have to figure out for themselves what the rules are. They are relieved of that responsibility.

    So, as it is your job to mold her, part of that task comes with the onerous responsibility of being good at carrot and stick, and better at being an enveloping force of love and security to which she wants to cleave closely.

    This is why I say men whine and moan about having to have this burden. But we have no choice.

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  316. on June 22, 2010 at 3:32 pm Gorbachev

    @simpleman
    What I find challenging now is morphing back into a somewhat regular interaction with the LTR/wife after the “throwdown”.

    Simpleman, you’ve got good frame. The anger helps, of course. Pretty good if this is the first time you’ve been able to do it.

    Things to watch out for:

    Some of what she does will be supplicating. You want to get into the right reward frame with her. If she apologizes, then act as if you suspect her apology, but grudgingly accept. Let the anger taper off in a gradual curve. You have the moral and emotional high ground; stake this territory and milk it. It’s what women do. She’ll understand it, too, but be unable to do anything about it.

    COUNTER: Because women do this, she’ll realize what’s going on and at some point try to regain this ground: You didn’t take out the garbage and rats got into it, you forgot to get her something she asked for (bread), you were rude to her friend – whatever. She’ll do whatever is necessary to reclaim the high ground. Don’t let her. If she does this, pass of whatever she’s upset about as irrelevant, and even get angry at the fact that she’s angry: Her irrelevant issue is an equal to yours? Don’t even brook argument. Just walk out, and hang out with your friends. Be extra cold if she tries to regain the high ground.

    When women do this, it’s pure and unadulterated and semi-conscious manipulation. Pass this test by not falling for it, and you’ve just gained Respect Markers from her. Don’t be her tool.

    BUT

    What you don’t want to do is push her beyond her limit, so you need to know your wife. If she feels that she’s supplicated and begged enough, she just might go into extreme anger, especially if she was (consciously) earnest.

    If you make this mistake and let this happen, then you have a problem: LT, you can’t let the anger continue; but you also can’t then supplicate to her, or say, “You apologize for doing X, and then I apologize for being mad”.

    If you get there, you’re in trouble. Your entire lesson will be lost on her, because then it’s an exchange.

    Best way to avoid it: Right now, begin rewarding her behavior that gives you hand. Begin accepting her back, but without seeming beta-ish, seem to obviously “remember” what she did (forgiving is not forgetting). And be nice, but be clearly checking out what she does. Watch her.

    Essentially, you’re forcing her not to grovel, but to self-doubt and self-question. Groveling you don’t want, no matter what PUAs and game experts say. Few Western women will tolerate this long-term, and it’s demeaning to you to be with a woman like this. You want to be controlling a strong woman, not crushing a weak one.

    But instilling some self-doubt also instills the fear: He will withdraw from me. When she gets withdrawal pangs, she’ll come back harder and work harder to please you. Accept but always give on that you won’t stand to be manipulated.

    And then you can use her self-doubt against her, as well: if she’s all nicey-nice, you can look at her with some contempt as if you know she’s just trying to manipulate you, but accept cautiously.

    That way, the self-doubt works for you, and then you can escalate by showing her contempt for having self-doubt, thus elevating yourself in her eyes again. Sometimes 1=2.

    Have rough sex, where you ignore her wishes and dismiss her. If you’re not normally like this, it will emotionally hit home. Make her work hard to get your trust back.

    Women are all about trust, but it’s a one-way street for them. Demand it back and make her work, and then when she does, show her contempt for being weak but accept. This does two things:
    – the contempt elevates you. It also reinforced any guilt she has. Reinforcing guilt in her is gold.
    – Accepting ends the crisis and allows you to move forward – with you having clear moral and personal authority. it shows how generous and accepting you are.

    The fundamental state of nature for women is the shifting of blame. All women at all times (with some wonderful exceptions) are trying to shift blame, emotional or otherwise, to their men: it’s their nature, it’s hard to avoid, and women never, ever see this.

    You need to be on guard for this the most. The man who never accepts the *shifted* blame, but takes responsibility for things that he’s actually responsible for, is Pure Alpha in a woman’s eyes. She’ll both love him (he took responsibility for himself) and respect him (he lets her stew in a pot of her own making).

    Emotional generosity with your wife in this way, giving in on any level, will win you nothing but her instinctive disrespect and her tooling behavior will increase every step of the way.

    I’m especially interested, for personal reasons, in seeing how game can be used in the context of a marriage or LTR to reclaim hand. Then I can go back in time and lecture myself.

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  317. on June 22, 2010 at 4:17 pm simpleman

    Not as simple as it sounds (to be that rock at all times). But I imagine not as complicated either once you master the core principles, inner game being the foundation.

    It does leave me rather disillusioned (being a former idealist) but really…knowing the game is half the battle.

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  318. on June 22, 2010 at 10:20 pm simpleman

    @Gorbachev

    Incredibly detailed and depressing post. It wore me out just to read it.

    Of course I recognize the inherent truth in what you’re saying.

    But damn. That is one tough ass thing to be on guard for…and one hell of a way to look at things.

    But what choice do I have…right?

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  319. on June 22, 2010 at 10:27 pm simpleman

    @ Gorbachev

    Women are all about trust, but it’s a one-way street for them. Demand it back and make her work, and then when she does, show her contempt for being weak but accept. This does two things:
    – the contempt elevates you. It also reinforced any guilt she has. Reinforcing guilt in her is gold.
    – Accepting ends the crisis and allows you to move forward – with you having clear moral and personal authority. it shows how generous and accepting you are.

    “Reinforcing guilt in her is gold”. Interesting in that a part of me wishes this was not the case. As in, I wish she was not deceiving me by saying she was “Just people watching”.

    Despite xsplat and polymath’s warnings not to take it personally, a part of me feels betrayed. And I need to figure out how to stop being so consumed by this enough to as you say, move forward.

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  320. on June 22, 2010 at 11:24 pm JB

    @ simpleman
    “Again, I want to get back to a normal kind of behavior. This brooding thing really does takes its on toll on me. But I don’t want to just return to an “everything’s OK” kind of vibe right away. Firstly because I don’t really feel that way, but more importantly because I think that would undermine my “takeaway” the other night. I don’t think she deserves the camaraderie of that yet.”

    I understand the bit about the toll. And the bit about her not deserving a return to normalcy. You’re right to seek the answer in inner game. What are you going to do, go f8ck ten other girls? No.

    Toll first. You must enjoy life. Koan for this: “Nimbus.” It’s a term coined by RSD for glory times. This is the charismatic alpha glow. This will enable you to shower her with love and affection, when appropriate.

    Deserts second. She doesn’t, and you shouldn’t. “In Male Fide.” In a dark world, sardonic cynicism is the only sane response. Wait until you feel it to return to niceness. Let her win you over – she needs it too. This maxim will cure your feelings of betrayal.

    Self respect third. “Calm Assertive Energy.” It balances the emotional poles above, keeps you centered in masculine confidence. The key to self respect, and to interacting with men.

    With these three maxims/koans, you should be able to keep your emotional energy continually refreshed by remaining in balance, while responding appropriately with whatever the situation demands, and continually creating a better situation. Not too dark, not too light, and not too variable.

    They are short enough to keep all three simultaneously in mind, in a triangle configuration. I keep Nimbus on top, to signify its prime importance in life, In Male Fide on the left, to signify deviousness, and Calm Assertive Energy on the right, to signify strength and peace.

    You may run into the problem of slipping into logical mode if you’re able to focus too clearly on the actual words, instead of their intuitive significance. In this case, you will need to add some more psychic symbolism into your present focus to diffuse attention until it is properly sublimated. Ideally this would be a background pictorial symbol instead of words.

    Being in logical mode all the time is a downer and worse than doing nothing.

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  321. on June 22, 2010 at 11:33 pm Gorbachev

    @Simpleman,
    Despite xsplat and polymath’s warnings not to take it personally, a part of me feels betrayed. And I need to figure out how to stop being so consumed by this enough to as you say, move forward.

    Well, if you an’t just let it go, use the disgust at her behavior and her lying about it to arm yourself. Moving on doesn’t mean forgetting about it. That’s the man in you talking.

    Don’t feel guilty about not letting it go. Women remember *every* thing you ever did and didn’t like, and they’ll toss it back at you when it’s unexpected.

    Remember: They think they’re fair and angels; in fact, their manipulative skills are so ingrained and so much better than yours will ever be, there’s no way for you to deal with it except by just looking down on it. And being armed. So your anger is a little bit useful.

    Once you accept that women are just naturally this way, you can appreciate them on their own terms. The problem is that you want to forget it and move on. You don’t need to forget it. Just accept this kind of behavior and the dishonesty as the price of being with a female human.

    The trick is ti use your discomfort to manipulate her back, consciously: PUAs are all about the pickup and the game, but in this case, you’re delving into the depths of human psychology.

    You just want to be with her the same way you could be with a guy, equally and safely. Accept that this isn’t going to happen, emotionally, and absorb it.

    Move to management rather than wishful thinking.

    Trust me, you’ll feel *much* better. Study women.

    So don’t worry about moving on. Use it to control the situation.

    Remember: Subtle is always better than direct.

    LikeLike


  322. on June 22, 2010 at 11:44 pm Gorbachev

    @simpleman,

    @Gorbachev

    Incredibly detailed and depressing post. It wore me out just to read it.

    Sorry. The truth is brutal. I went through it. Benefit from my pain.

    Of course I recognize the inherent truth in what you’re saying.
    But damn. That is one tough ass thing to be on guard for…and one hell of a way to look at things.
    But what choice do I have…right?

    Actually, believe me, though it’s hard right now: Once you give up your ideas about how women work, you’ll be freed to enjoy the company of your wife without sitting there wondering What The Hell Was That all the time.

    It was agonizingly painful for me to rewrite my male-female interactivity software, but once I did, everything, everything became easier. But have no illusions: Losing the illusions is a terrible awakening, until it settles down.

    You and your wife have been together for a year. Do it now. Take it all in, and begin to play the “game”. You’ll save your marriage in the long-term, and you’ll enjoy her company *much* more.

    And if she’s just looking at guys, that’s fine. Start now and you can prevent her from fucking other guys. In 3 years, you’ll be much, much better off.

    The truth is that she doesn’t understand any of this herself. None of it. her manipulation and sneaky underhandedness emotionally is also beyond her own understanding. You just need to forgive her for being subject to her own instincts and then move forward –

    With knowledge of how she works.

    Happiness will come again.

    Believe me dude, I feel for you.

    LikeLike


  323. on June 22, 2010 at 11:51 pm ahappinessexperiment

    JB with the new age advice. hey, why not recommend crystals, too?

    alternative to the karma and koans and invisible energy, you could try being a man.

    LikeLike


  324. on June 23, 2010 at 12:54 am JB

    Jung and Freud are not new age, AHE. Neither is Caesar Milan. Or RSD. And certainly not Céline. My new age influence is exactly zero. I didn’t even read Eckhardt Tolle.

    But missing never stopped you before, did it?

    Just be a man is a terrible koan. It will lead to alternating machismo and insecurity. Mine work.

    LikeLike


  325. on June 23, 2010 at 1:00 am johnny five

    I’m especially interested, for personal reasons, in seeing how game can be used in the context of a marriage or LTR to reclaim hand.

    basically it’s a system in which you gradually ramp
    up various alpha qualities — not too slowly, but not too quickly — as the relationship progresses.

    xsplat has spoken wisely about gradually increasing dominance / authority over the woman, but that is only one of many variables that you should gradually amp up. preferably, you should amp up these variables at rates so slow and steady as to be imperceptible.

    what’s missing here, i think, is a more specific, quantitative attempt at defining these variables; they are all on a continuum, rather than binaries.
    for instance, the community asks questions like, “are you physically dominant?”. this isn’t the right question to ask — it doesn’t account for the many shades of gray.

    the idea is that you can leverage dominant qualities that are in abundance, via takeaways, to build other dominant qualities. for instance, if you have absolute control over her in the bedroom, then you can use withholding and takeaways of that dominant sexual performance to ramp up your authority over her in other areas.

    LikeLike


  326. on June 23, 2010 at 1:04 am johnny five

    am i the only one here for whom everything on this thread after 5:45pm 6/20 is showing up in italics?

    LikeLike


  327. on June 23, 2010 at 1:11 am JB

    The human mind is like a tri-layered acquatic ecosystem, viewed from above, descending into murkiness, the size of life forms increasing with depth.

    My koans target the middle depth. By controlling the species there, I control what behemoths come up from the depths to feed, while leaving the conscious minnow dance near the surface unfettered, but properly winnowed by predation from the middle.

    To effortlessly and reflexively achieve an internal state in accordance with one’s aspirations, in all situations, is no small feat, and worthy of stoic manhood.

    It also helps to carry a notebook for GTD purposes, to capture minnows as pressing thoughts are generated, before they disappear into the murk and grow into anxiety loops.

    Thus, one achieves inner peace, independent of circumstances. Slavery and freedom begin within.

    LikeLike


  328. on June 23, 2010 at 12:59 pm simpleman

    @Gorbachev

    It was agonizingly painful for me to rewrite my male-female interactivity software, but once I did, everything, everything became easier. But have no illusions: Losing the illusions is a terrible awakening, until it settles down.

    You and your wife have been together for a year. Do it now. Take it all in, and begin to play the “game”. You’ll save your marriage in the long-term, and you’ll enjoy her company *much* more.

    Long term game is a bitch. Ever challenging. I feel like I’m always needing to top myself. Am I missing something here? Can it really be more and less than that?

    You just want to be with her the same way you could be with a guy, equally and safely. Accept that this isn’t going to happen, emotionally, and absorb it.

    Move to management rather than wishful thinking.

    Management…incredible. Well said. Somewhere, Gloria Steinem just gagged.

    I was having a conversation with a friend a few weeks back. He’s in the first few great months of a relationship, going on about how great this woman is. He even posted how he felt about her on his blog! I told him to ease off on letting her know how he felt.

    I then went on about how I’ve learned, mainly from this and other blogs, and also personal experience, that you really do have to take the blue bill and wake up — be aware of how women think and proceed accordingly.

    So even though I’m getting a rude awakening (even now), I tried to get across to my buddy that we can’t ever really be “friends” with our lovers. I said, Women look to us to lead, even if they’ll never admit it. He disagreed.

    “No man,” he said. “I wouldn’t want to be guarded like that all the time. I should be able to show her my true self, my inner thoughts. It’s a partnership.”

    Funny how feminism/media/our fiat butthexing masters have brainwashed even the most brilliant of male minds. This guy is pretty bright, more than that actually. But he could not see what I was saying.

    LikeLike


  329. on June 23, 2010 at 1:10 pm simpleman

    @ JB

    I understand the bit about the toll. And the bit about her not deserving a return to normalcy. You’re right to seek the answer in inner game. What are you going to do, go f8ck ten other girls? No.

    No? Well. I admit, I really considered going for this.

    Toll first. You must enjoy life. Koan for this: “Nimbus.” It’s a term coined by RSD for glory times. This is the charismatic alpha glow. This will enable you to shower her with love and affection, when appropriate.

    An amazing concept. I looked it up and found that this really comes down to just having fun with everything, amusing yourself with it all. Again, I have to get the inner game going so that this flows through everything.

    Deserts second. She doesn’t, and you shouldn’t. “In Male Fide.” In a dark world, sardonic cynicism is the only sane response. Wait until you feel it to return to niceness. Let her win you over – she needs it too. This maxim will cure your feelings of betrayal.

    I’m not getting this part as clearly as the other 2. “Wait until you feel it to return to niceness” ? How do I let her win me over — and, as you say, not overdo it by letting it go too far?

    Last night — rough intense sex again. She loved it. I’m still kind of cold though to her. This morning, she seemed depressed. Maybe it’s the heat, I don’t know.

    But I sense her falling into a kind of…maybe despair is too strong, but something. She knows I’m not myself, and I don’t know when I yet can be. I don’t yet feel I can just go back to everything’s fine and dandy on the outside.

    This is really tricky — transitioning back to “leading” and setting a good mood, while still feeling that bitter taste in the back of my mouth.

    LikeLike


  330. on June 23, 2010 at 1:11 pm Gorbachev

    @Simpleman,

    Long term game is a bitch. Ever challenging. I feel like I’m always needing to top myself. Am I missing something here? Can it really be more and less than that?

    You don’t need to top yourself. Just remain consistently. The person you really need to control is yourself; this is the hardest thing.

    Management…incredible. Well said. Somewhere, Gloria Steinem just gagged.

    Let her. She was on the Colbert Report last night. A sylph-like charm. Harrump.

    I was having a conversation with a friend a few weeks back. He’s in the first few great months of a relationship, going on about how great this woman is. He even posted how he felt about her on his blog! I told him to ease off on letting her know how he felt.

    Tell him to read Roissy. And talk to him. It could save his relationship.

    But getting him to swallow that pill can be a hard sell.

    PS: the smarter men are harder to convince.

    LikeLike


  331. on June 24, 2010 at 12:46 am JB

    First, I am very glad you are seeing the Nimbus concept. It’s worth watching the Blueprint and Tim’s Flawless Natural and perhaps another RSD product just to grasp this fully. The Robbie Williams video Roissy posted about has a discussion of how Robby hits nimbus while working the studio. I think you still may be underestimating how much the word means conceptually, although you’ve captured the enthusiasm of it.

    Let me try again with In Male Fide. It means “in bad faith.” It will enable you to channel your dark side through, in this case your anger at her betrayal, without feeding it or bottling it. You won’t feed it because IMF acknowledges the whole world is this way. It lets you not feel bad or uncomfortable about being cold, as you now currently feel.

    What I’m saying is, don’t TRY to transition back to a good mood. That would be a hamfisted direct attempt to manipulate your own emotions, never good with finely tuned congruency detectors like women. Instead, let the kinder, forgiving feelings come back naturally, as you begin to pity her suffering and forgive her. When you’ve come around internally, your love and leadership can find natural spontaneous expression through “Nimbus” and “Calm Assertive Energy.”

    This will give her the experience of genuinely winning you over, which will make you treasure your good graces, through the cognitive bias of sunk investment cost, but also because you’ve demonstrated higher value by prizing your congruency above the relationship’s superficial health.

    If you truly feel you’re having trouble forgiving, that’s a different matter. Perhaps it’s a problem of expectations, or of not taking sufficient responsibility for not supplying the game her nature needs, or perhaps you would feel better after f8cking 10 other girls. For some really advice on LTR game, go here: hvren.wordpress.com

    LikeLike


  332. on June 24, 2010 at 9:04 pm polymath

    Simpleman,

    Sorry I’m late coming back to this, was on vacation (LTR maintenance, 100% successful).

    You are getting perspective from men who have not had a really long-term successful relationship, The early years are the toughest. I think the path you chose ought to work out OK, though it was not the only viable choice. But you REALLY need to work on your inner game. Letting it eat at you is much more of a danger to your relationship than you might think.

    Symmetry-asymmetry. Men and women are different, but in some important ways they are the same. You perceive an asymmetry in how you should react to her ogling and how she should react to yours. Fine, there is an asymmetry because men and women are different.

    But they are not SO different that it represents an evil betrayal simply for her to feel attracted to other men.

    The problem is not the looking, it is that the FACT that she is occasionally attracted to other men is made salient to you. But that fact is always a fact, whether or not you are thinking about it. The separate issue of disrespect has been dealt with by you, apparently successfully, but you have to internalize that it doesn’t matter whether she is attracted to other men, as long as she never does anything with them because you are fully occupying the mental slot she has for “man who fucks me”. Women have only one of those slots, but if it is incompletely filled by one man then there is room for others to worm their way in and displace him.

    If she had been a slut, it would be more important to make sure she doesn’t even THINK about other men, and advanced practitioners like xsplat and johnny five might have good advice for you there. But if she has never come close to the depth of her relationship with you, with any other man, you need to shrug this off — don’t tolerate ogling in your presence, but exult in the triumphant knowledge that YOU’RE the one who’s actually got her and no one else has any shot. (And if you object that you don’t actually “know” that no one else has any shot, you’re flunking inner game — although objective reality cannot be ignored, this is one of those cases where reality is subjective and your inner attitude will actually “make it so”.)

    LikeLike


  333. on June 25, 2010 at 8:37 am simpleman

    @Polymath

    But you REALLY need to work on your inner game. Letting it eat at you is much more of a danger to your relationship than you might think.

    “The problem is not the looking, it is that the FACT that she is occasionally attracted to other men is made salient to you. But that fact is always a fact, whether or not you are thinking about it.”

    “But if she has never come close to the depth of her relationship with you, with any other man, you need to shrug this off — don’t tolerate ogling in your presence, but exult in the triumphant knowledge that YOU’RE the one who’s actually got her and no one else has any shot. (….although objective reality cannot be ignored, this is one of those cases where reality is subjective and your inner attitude will actually “make it so”.)”

    Thanks for this. It helps to hear it put that way. I can’t change human nature — hers or mine — but I can do my best to create my own reality. I guess that is what it’s all about.

    LikeLike


  334. on June 25, 2010 at 12:43 pm johnny five

    @ simpleman
    But I sense her falling into a kind of…maybe despair is too strong, but something. She knows I’m not myself, and I don’t know when I yet can be.

    one of two things is happening here:

    1, she’s just getting whiplash because you’re moving too fast. ideally, you should try to make changes as incrementally as possible; if you do so, she will internalize her newfound attraction completely because she will have no externally perceptible stimuli to which she can attribute it.
    i.e., if you can institute change slowly enough that it’s unnoticeable, she will just assume that she has changed.

    2, more likely, you are probably not universally congruent at the moment.
    in fact, if you’ve implemented rapid changes sexually, this is practically a certainty, as it’s almost impossible to change your everyday behavior at the same rate (and completely impossible for your everyday body language, which requires an astonishing amount of conscious attention).

    LikeLike


  335. on August 13, 2010 at 10:05 pm Harmonica

    Amen, CR, amen.

    LikeLike


  336. on September 10, 2010 at 8:51 pm Rarfy

    She was “in a mood” because she found her labia shrivelling up due to his constant compliance with her every demand. There’s nothing a woman hates and disdains more than a man who does what she wants him to do, except one she’s married to.

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