I had two conversations going on. One with my date (first date) sitting next to me and one in my head.
“They call this game the beautiful sport. Personally, I think bowling should have that title. What do you think?”
“I wouldn’t call bowling a sport.” She smirks.
“Sure it is. Hand eye coordination. Groupies. It qualifies.”
I lay my hand on her forearm. She doesn’t pull away, but she doesn’t return my touch with one of her own. Not a positive sign. Also, I’m turned to her and she’s still facing forward. I’ll try mirroring.
“That’s a very disturbing stick figure drawing. Does your mother know you have all this pent up aggression?”
“Hey, it’s your game. If you can’t handle it you shouldn’t ask to play.” She puts the pencil down with authority.
She brushes her cheek with the back of her hand. I put my hand to my face in a nearly identical gesture. Then I tug at the hair in back of my head. Almost instantly, she plays with a lock of hair on her head. Progress!
“Sounds like your parents have one of those relationships that most people envy.” I’m genuinely impressed.
“It hasn’t always been perfect, but yeah, I’m lucky to have them. They’re a good role model.”
I have my hand on her shoulder when she says this. I’m escalating kino by the book, but she’s not touching me in response at all. Her body language, while not cold, is not warming up either, although her punchy voice tone, her sincere smile, and her glittering eyes betray a deep emotional engagement.
It has been an hour and two drinks since we met this night. People are around us, but not much paying attention to us, except for one Slavic looking girl sitting with three men on the other side of the bar who keeps checking me out. Naturally, I notice this. When women’s eyes are on me, I feel a pleasant disturbance in my calm. A nuke could go off downtown and I’ll still take mental note of some random chick looking at me curiously.
Normally, this is the time of the date when I go for the kiss, but she has sent no signals that an advance toward her lips would yield victory. I’ve had girls faceturn on me before during a lip approach, and it’s an invisible blow to the solar plexus, but I always remind myself that the rejection of a spurned kiss is nothing to the regret of a kiss not taken. Yet… she is inscrutable. Not leaning into me, not leaning away from me. Smiling, but not licking her lips. Accepting of my touches, but not returning in kind. I absorb the tension of the moment, silent and serene, careful to avoid lurching clumsily into try-hard, but the seconds are ticking and the silence is expanding. I could put off the decision and move this conversation in a new direction, but then I risk losing momentum. If seduction were a balloon, overtalking is like pinching the knot to let the air escape slowly.
When I was new to the pickup arts, I defaulted to Mystery’s kiss routine to break the seal and kiss a girl on a first date (or first night). The routine was simple.
“Would you like to kiss me?”
If she says “Yes”, I go for the kiss.
If she says “No”, I say “I didn’t say you *could*… you just had that look on your face.”
If she says “Maybe”, I say “Let’s find out.”
It was a good routine, and never let me down, but as I (re)discovered through the accumulation of experience and memories of past seductions, it was totally unnecessary. The perfect first kiss is ushered wordlessly, imposed on the woman by sheer force of masculine will, intoxicating in its bold, unspoken grandeur, sophisticated in its exquisite timing. Cleverness and calculated filibuster, more often than not, detracts from its simple glory.
But still, I needed a sign. There is always a sign if you look for it.
As I finished speaking, I stared at her. In the silence, my pupils vibrated along a beam of mental wire connected to her pupils. An unmoved girl would quickly glance away. She would have, but not before a telling second passed when her gaze met mine and lingered, and I had all the excuse I needed. Plunging headlong into her aura of feminine repose, I struck the softness of her lips with purpose, and she answered with abandon.
The only kiss routine you need is this: does she hold your gaze for a second longer than is comfortable? If so, you must move. Failure to do so will constitute the loss of a magical moment that will never quite be recaptured in the same way again.
That’s money right there. I’m going to try that sometime soon. I’ll post back here and report back on how it goes.
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Haha, that’s really cool how our minds can think about two things at once. But really, I think being in the moment can be awesome 🙂
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Has a girl ever said “Maybe” to this?
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“the rejection of a spurned kiss is nothing to the regret of a kiss not taken.”
Doesn’t get realer than this. Unless it’s a totally awkward moment, if she’s agreed to a date and she likes you she’s not going to reject you.
If she does, at least you know 1) this girl is probably going to be a bitch the rest of the night and a waste of time and 2) might be time to step your game up.
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I’ve found that shy girls don’t give as many signals so you have to pay extra attention to the ones that she does give off. Always pay close attention to the eyes. She may be too inhibited to do much with her hands, but she can’t stop her pupils from dilating.
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Offtopic, but I’m pretty sure this is the funniest video I’ve ever seen.
You are not the father. 🙂
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Just out of curiosity, how many of the guys on this site and in the online Game/PUA community in general actually put this stuff into practice in the real world?
I see a lot of bragging by keyboard PUAs, but what I suspect what is really happening here is people immersing themselves in theory, but not actually trying it out on real women. At least, certainly not the 9’s and 10’s that people on here boast about netting.
I believe that, underneath all the machismo, there are a lot more male virgins in here than is at first apparent. It’s one thing to discuss Game at length, it’s another to walk up to a woman and actually try it.
My advice to all the keyboard seductors is to ditch this Game stuff and just be yourself.
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If I get a head turn on the first date when the moment is right I know its an issue with the girl and not me. An issue in the sense that banging that chick will require too much effort and time. A quality chick will get a second chance, but that’s it.
I have been dupped by the licking of lips before. Some girls really have dry lips, especially out here in Vegas.
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What a great post.
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@ Sylvia
> My advice to all the keyboard seductors is to ditch this Game stuff and just be yourself.
LOL Sylvia. Maybe it’s *because* they’re themselves that they’re male virgins.
> It’s one thing to discuss Game at length, it’s another to walk up to a woman and actually try it.
But it appears we’re arguing for the same prescription.
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@ Sylvia,
I don’t disagree that guys need to be themselves, but I see learning game as an opportunity to improve the self, not as a front that a guy puts on.
And there is a lot to “being one’s self” that is gross or otherwise unattractive to the opposite sex. All people, in “being themselves” filter what they say and do in front of other people so as to not be offensive or to make a good impression.
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@ Doug1
The Atlantic article in End of Beta Providers has a Doug111 commenter. Are you the same?
If so, great posts both here and there.
AllynK, Dragnet20 and JA had some great points too.
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My routine is quite simple
– come here (kiss)
– hey, gimme a kiss (kiss)
– kiss… ? (kiss)
– soo… (kiss)
– yo, gimme a kiss, now (kiss)
never fails
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@ Sylvia: the point is not to be yourself, but to be the best self you can be
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side comment
most girls are approached by many guys a day. If she went on a date with you, she picked you amongst many others and the whole thing is already charged with sexual energy. You dont really have to do anything special other than assert yourself. She is expecting kiss, sex and emotions already. She went out with you
so just “be your self” instead of “being afraid to be yourself”
in other words be a damn alpha and forget about whatever fear or crap you had in a previous life. this is here and now.
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The rule of thumb at the end of this post seems pretty intuitive. In my experience you’ve got to just go for the kiss when the moment seems right; talking about it or mentioning that it’s happening works for Woody Allen in Annie Hall but in real life is just going to peg you as a dork who isn’t sure of himself around women (which, Sylvia, you may very well be, but – and I hope I don’t seem cynical here – the point of game is to hide it).
Roissy’s little anecdote also jibes with what I increasingly feel about the timing of physical contact, which is that it’s never too early in the date to initiate it and to begin escalating. If a girl has agreed to see you at night at a place where alcohol is served, she’s probably amenable to being touched.
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Yawn,.. standard male-shame reframe. Come back with something more original than a JBY meme next time.
Is the woman who applies make up everyday ‘being herself”? How about the woman with implants, is she ‘being herself”? What about the woman wearing high heels becasue it boosts her height 4 inches? How about the woman wearing a business suit that emphasizes her shoulders with pads in the jacket is she ‘being herself”? If she colors her hair does this make her less genuine?
If being ourselves is an idealized state then I should reasonably be able to expect a like-minded fitness model to be attracted to me even if my greatest passion is to sit on my couch, eat a large pizza and wash it down with a 6 pack of Michelob while watching Monday Night Football, right? After all, I am just being myself.
The hardest distinction the uninitiated have with the JBY (just be yourself) dynamic is that personality is malable. You define what being yourself is at any given moment and it’s relative to your personal conditions and environment. So where do you draw the line? When does a genuine change of character become legitimate rather than being ‘shallow’ or ‘superficial’? Those are just catch terms that women (and too many chumps) have used with success over the centuries and men have internalized as being states of perception that women think are undesirable, yet they never accurately define. Rather, they stay intentionally ambiguous and relative to an individual woman’s interpretation, while their behaviors indicate their own motivations.
You are who you believe you are, and you are who she perceives you to be.
And just a side note here; everyone has Game. Alpha’s, Betas, Omegas, everyone has at least some methodology (misguided or proven) to which they believe will be most effective in getting them laid. So even the guy who’s “just being himself” is being himself because he thinks it’s the most expeditious route to your panties. So is he really being himself,…?
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but what I suspect what is really happening here is people immersing themselves in theory, but not actually trying it out on real women. At least, certainly not the 9′s and 10′s that people on here boast about netting.
The total number of 9s and 10s banged by Roissy´s readers is comparable to the number of 9s and 10s who actually post/read here.
I believe that, underneath all the machismo,
let me tell you a secret. underneath all the machismo there is …………………………….. more machismo!!
there are a lot more male virgins in here than is at first apparent
You can have any opinion you want about how many male virgins read Roissy. But I am pretty sure that the number of female virgins is barely above zero….
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You are right, Sidewinder, there is no Self. There is only congruency of thoughts, actions, and emotions.
And all of those can be trained.
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Sylvia the troll was ripped a new one by Rollo Tomassi. Good one.
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Why to not just be yourself.
http://www.sosuave.com/articles/whynot.htm
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re: Sylvia
Another special snowflake has landed at the Chateau.
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Roissy’s vignette was characteristically enjoyable, but it also reminded me of how inexperienced a lot of guys who get into “game” are. As a teenager I was never the proverbial captain of the football team or “slick” with the ladies (hence my more-than-academic interest in this stuff), but this principle,
“The only kiss routine you need is this: does she hold your gaze for a second longer than is comfortable? If so, you must move”
was something I understood intuitively at the age of 13. It was scary then, and sometimes it’s scary even now, but once she’s holding your stare and there’s tension, not kissing her seems as unnatural as standing on railroad tracks and thinking really hard about whether the impact of an oncoming train might kill you instead of jumping the hell out of the way.
I’m not trying to mock anyone and I’m glad there are ways for frustrated men to improve their social skills, but that this post is getting such positive feedback really illuminates the sort of personal history that must lie behind a lot of this blog’s commenters’ attitudes.
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@ Sylvia: the point is not to be yourself, but to be the best self you can be
——–
You’re right. That’s a better way of putting it.
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Sylvia the troll was ripped a new one by Rollo Tomassi
if Sykvia is a troll, then the entire female gender is trollish. You could as well define a troll as a “human being possessing a vagina”
Sylvia´s platitudes are default mode for women.
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…or to quote Chris Rock:
“When you go on a date you’re not you, you’re the representative of you.”
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Though I should add, ‘best self’ means good personal grooming, friendliness etc, not never-ending mind games.
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@ Sylvia
There are always keyboard tough guys, but this board seems pretty good to me. Besides, there is no chicken or egg dilemma here. I’m pretty sure most of the guys on this board were out hitting the scene first, then decided to sharpen their game by applying the seduction theories.
As for most people who frequent this site, getting laid and trying to get laid is a fantastic hobby. What fun would the tips on this site be if it wasn’t being put into practice. It would probably just make me feel bad and envious.
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“They call this game the beautiful sport. Personally, I think bowling should have that title. What do you think?”
There it is. Where you lost her. What´s next, were you going to tell her that curling is the real beautiful game?
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As far as Kissing goes… I learned early on that diving in for a kiss is ALWAYS better than not doing it.
Like CR said, the only thing to watch out for is being “careful to avoid lurching clumsily into try-hard”. Diving in too soon can easily give off a desperate horn dog vibe, … and sometimes its better to play it cool, but in my experience trying for a kiss is generally never held against you… and its a great way to make sure there are no mistakes about whether your content in the friend zone.
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JBY is just a simplistic truism. This of course is just what ones says as advice when they really don’t know what else to say. What is it that makes a personality shift ‘genuine’. Any number of us probably know an individual who began acting differently at some point in their life. This can be the result of some kind of tragedy or trauma (think PTSD) or it can be that the individual felt a need to change their fundamental way of thinking and made the change of their own accord. Usually in these cases we think of them as posers or try-hards, trying to be something they’re not. They reflect this change in their appearance, their regular practices, their friends or the people they associate with, attitudes, behaviors etc. And this is what’s jarring for people who knew their prior personality.
What makes us doubt the sincerity of this change is what’s at issue. If their change is something we agree with or generally think of as positive, we are less inclined to doubt the ingenuousness of this change. But when their change conflicts with our own interests, when it dramatically clashes with what we’ve come to expect of that individual, this is where we doubt their sincerity. We say “dude, stop trying to be something you’re not”, we tear it down, we fall back on JBY platitudes because it clashes with our interpretations. And in this doubt, we fish for reasons as to why a person would want that change; essentially, what are they compensating for?
It’s a difficult enough task for an individual to critically assess their own personality, and even more so to effect a change in it, but the final insult is to have other’s doubt the veracity of it. What others fail to see is that at some point in the development of their own personalities, they themselves had to compensate for deficiencies, discontentments and prompts to grow and mature. This is a gigantic hurdle for most AFCs wanting to transition to being something more.
We have a saying in the community that AFCs are like a bunch of crabs in a barrel. As soon as one is about to climb out there are always half a dozen ready to pull him back in again. Add to this a self-doubt from societal conditionings that tell him to stay the same, not to aspire to more, he’s doing it right, and it’s amazing that any AFC unplugs from the Matrix. They tell him he’s compensating, and in a way they’re right, but for the wrong reason. PUA skills, Game psychology, Positive Masculinity are all compensations for deficiencies. They go beyond behavior modification – that’s the easy answer. PUAs teach a set of behaviors and scripts to be aped in order to mask a deficit. These are easy pickings for the JBY “reasonists” because they are actions that generally don’t match a person’s prior personality. They’re not “really” like that, or how we’d want them to be, so they’re posers, or worse, they’ve been duped by guys hawking the PUA brand of self-help tools. What they don’t see is the genuine desire to change, the reasons for it and the positive changes that came as a result from it.
When we compensate, we improvise, we fake it till we make it; but who determines when we’ve stopped faking it? We do. You will only keep getting what you’ve gotten if you keep doing what you’ve done.
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I’ve actually run into a lot of girls who are surprisingly bad kissers. It’s horrible. My question then is can you predict that a bad kisser will also be bad in bed?
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well said Rollo
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Mr M.,
No one is a bad kisser for long if they get into a relationship with a good kisser, or even another bad kisser when both really want to get better at it.
The same is true, mostly, for performance in bed, though mutual inexperience takes longer to cure itself than it does for kissing.
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I very much doubt that most women are approached by men several times a day. Possibly 8-10s, but I’ll bet 6s and below go weeks or months without being approached at all. I could be wrong, though.
Roissy and you other gamers never seem to take into account that women may have some of the same problems as us omegas, even though they are in the higher numbers, namely that they have poor people skills and give off an erroneous image of what they’re thinking and feeling. Putting too much effort into trying to read them as Roissy was doing here would be a waste of effort.
In fact, I think an interesting post would be about approaching women who turned out to be weird in some way (and I don’t mean nuts, I mean schizoid, or aspergery).
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I once went for one when the silences were longer and the girl was gazing away, when I felt I had lost it. I thought, “fuck it” and went in. We had sloppy makeouts the rest of the night, never heard from her again. Always worth going for.
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right… cause when men play mind games it seriously gets in the way of women playing their own mind games.
sylvia, either say something meaningful or go watch oprah. this is not the place for meaningless platitudes about “being yourself.”
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If girls are afraid of being duped by a man who is a complete fraud and nothing like the Man he portrays himself to be, they really don’t need to be.
If a guy wasn’t smart, funny, coordinated, etc. before, odds are he won’t fool people for very long after applying game or any self help technique.
Game is giving a tune-up, wash and polish on the person that already exists, with possibly a few fixes here and there. Few guys are able to do a 180 and completely reinvent themselves successfully…
He’ll still be able to improve himself relative to what he was…. and who could fault that.
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Vincent Ignatius said
Revealed truth like this is pure gold and a good reason to read all of the comments.
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….Annnnd I was just about to read the Mystery Method.
Should I or shouldn’t I?
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@yohami
most girls are approached by many guys a day. If she went on a date with you, she picked you amongst many others and the whole thing is already charged with sexual energy. You dont really have to do anything special other than assert yourself. She is expecting kiss, sex and emotions already. She went out with you
so just “be your self” instead of “being afraid to be yourself”
in other words be a damn alpha and forget about whatever fear or crap you had in a previous life. this is here and now.
WTF, this is by far the worst advice I’ve heard all year.
In the last 3 years, without game I’d have been able to squeeze out maybe 2-3 LTRs with acceptably attractive women my own age or older.
A lesson to all normal dudes out there:
– Bite down on this: You don’t know shit about women. Admit it, and learn something.
– Make yourself a better person. IE, learn Game.
– make yourself a better person, be interesting. Still learn Game, so the woman can find your Interesting.
I’m not saying it’s easy, or straightforward. Get ready for brutal rejection (at first). You need a rubberized ego.
Movie reference: It’s like “The Wheel of Pain”.
But eventually,
“His victories could not easily be counted.”
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This post is a good Advanced Class to the scripted Mystery kiss close. When I read Mystery for the first time, I was surprised by the kiss close routine and perceived difficulty of the first kiss. Maybe because I have been kissing girls since kindergarten, I’ve never had trouble with it. I love that moment when our faces go soft, our eyes lock, and the tension crests when our lips touch.
I am also surprised that this post got the JBY female response. This post is simply about reading body language to know when the time is right for the first kiss; there is nothing deceitful in that. I maintain that Game is good for women too. What woman doesn’t want to be kissed by a guy who is tuned into her and has a good sense of timing?
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I don’t know what blog Sylvia is reading, but there are very few braggarts and armchair generals here.
Most of us are just here to learn. And few here claim to be experts with the ladies.
P.S.
“Just be yourself” is the most toxic, the most senseless and dishonest advice that any man can be told when it comes to matters of the heart.
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According to this week’s U.S. News & World Report:
No-Fault Divorce is a Good Idea for Moms–So Is Working Full Time
http://www.usnews.com/blogs/erbe/2010/06/21/No-Fault-Divorce-is-a-Good-Idea-for-Moms-So-Is-Working-Full-Time.html
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P.S.
Arnie,
Read the Mystery Method – it’s a wonderful book, especially the chapters on negs.
Avoid any of the really expensive CDs or DVDs though. Just read the book and put it into practice.
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How do you format a quote in a comment?
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Sylvia, ‘being one’s self’ doesn’t work out for everyone. According to your logic, virgins should act as they have always had and eventually somebody will love them back. For the sake of argument I’ll presume that you were actually wishing good with your advice.
What you failed to notice though was that the average IQ of Roissy’s readers is pretty high compared to most of the Internet and finally males reach the conclusion that their method for fixing a problem is not good enough and will search for new ones, for example PUA. In this case, being a 20+-year old virgin means that being one’s self has failed tragically and it’s time to change the approach. Your advice can be compared to pushing a drowning person back to the river, just because it might be worse on the land.
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RE: “Just Be Yourself”
While in and of itself that simple advice does very little good, and is no substitute for certain game theories, it does have some value.
I see it as be comfortable in your own skin, which is a form of confidence. Don’t freeze up and be inhibited when talking with a girl, make the joke you would have made if it was just you and an old friend. Do what you enjoy because you enjoy it…. With a strong sense of what you want and what you enjoy, there will hopefully be girls who share those interests or at the very least just flighty girls who want to join a man with direction.
Just remember to not abandon all social tact…. that’s where Omegas fail most.
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you were playing hangman at a bar?
Also, interesting watching her to gauge if she was mirroring you.
I think when a girl says JBY, she’s saying don’t act like a spaz around pretty girls. Still, bad advice if it’s taken as “you’re a special snowflake who will, without any effort, find a soulmate.”
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Read the Mystery Method primarily for in-depth understanding of game structure, less so for specific tactics/routines, which may be outdated or inappropriate in some cases.
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“I am also surprised that this post got the JBY female response.”
JBY is female code for “let your beta flag fly, my eggs are too precious and I don’t have time to waste figuring out if you’re for real!”
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Sylvia–
You advice on game and “winning” (we prefer to frame it as seducing) girls is absolutely typical for most females, and is in fact much worse than useless.
Any guy taking it seriously will be seriously lead astray.
There are a considerable number of alpha guys who are regulars or in and out frequenters of this site, though no doubt there are a lot more betas working on becoming more alpha, certainly among the regular male readers but also among the commenters. There are also some beta or omegas that have more or less given up and who write darkly and angrily, such as whiskey, but now that more offshoots of the Roissyshere have opened up, they tend to now spend more time at other places, or start their own blogs. A lot go to The Spearhead, a men’s and men’s rights magazine / multiple contributor type blog.
Alpha that is defined the way Roissy does, as having bedded at least scores of hot or hottish (7 and up, with at least some 8’s and 9’s) girls (and in some cases triple digits of them), or being able to even if he’s chosen not to actually rack up big numbers. The later case is obviously more subjective, but there’s no arguing with the numbers if they’re not lies. It’s hard to really verify anyone’s numbers, but it’s not too hard to see that some guys really can pull hot girls quickly most of the time, and with a good likelihood of starting quickly down the road of success before a gaming night is out, or at least after several such nights.
Game is real Syvia, though there are different names for it. In our own time what’s encouraged and taught to respectible middle class (all flavors) of boy, esp. white and and most Asian ones, is a kind of feminist/chivalrous/white knighting “above all be a nice guy” and “be yourself” anti game.
There is a nugget of truth to “being yourself”, but just recommending that alone is terrible advice. One’s game should be congruent w/one’s personality, more or less. And one should also develop one’s “inner game” such that effective game becomes not a canned act, but rather who’ve become w/girls you’re interested in, or just want to flirt with.
Learning game is about 1) unlearning a lot of emasculating and misleading feminist and chivalrous/gentlemanly messages, both, that our culture imbues on white gus ( though it’s been warned off trying to change black guy’s culture too much in these ways, see the gangster rap feminist wars and rapid retreat); and 2) learning some far more effective techniques and ultimately really attitudes and stances towards girls.
The later in it’s essence is about teaching guys to re-masculinize themselves, or let that side bloom unabashedly, but with some subtly esp. for upper middle class and above white target girls. The general ticket is playful social and sexual dominance. This involves who you are/have become, or in a beginners pinch, who you appear to be to the girl. It involves being a bit thrillingly dangerous, taking her on emotional roller coaster rides at least to an extent (and it’s often best if its to a big extent), playfully negging her the right amount, which will depend upon her own amount of initial confidence towards you, and generally leading her, but in a way that welcomes, but doesn’t really need, her input.
That’s enough for now. You may be unconvincable, or not worth the effort.
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@Original JB
Read the Mystery Method primarily for in-depth understanding of game structure, less so for specific tactics/routines, which may be outdated or inappropriate in some cases.
The specific routines are interesting. But the important thing is the attitude and the frame and the internal process you put yourself through.
It’s fun to come up with your own methods and routines.
It’s not just Game; it’s also “a” game.
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yohami–
This really isn’t true either.
It’s certainly true of most hot girls who go to singles/pickup bars in big urban centers that have a good number of guys in them on the night in question. In fact it’s probably true of most 5’s and up in such venues if they’re putting out a willing/interested vibe and they stay late enough.
It’s not true of most not so hot girls and even many hottish ones, who aren’t putting out a flirty, dressing hot or coquettishly vibe, but rather putting out a stand offish one, who avoid pickup venues. Yes they’ll get hit on some, but not by “many guys a day”, day after day.
Hence day game can be a lot easier for e.g. a higher beta with some ability to discern which girls might be open to playful, gaming w/ good rapport building advances.
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polymath
I think guys tend to be bad kissers when they’re inhibited about showing a desire for male dominance, and an attitude that with signals of interest from her, he’s just going to take her. (Unless and until she makes it clear she really doesn’t want that.)
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Has a girl ever said “Maybe” to this?
I asked a girl “Do you want to kiss me?” a few months ago and she responded with a demure “I don’t know, maybe.” Much more alluring than if she had simply said yes. I went right for it.
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Hot.
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Gorbachev, JB
“But the important thing is the attitude and the frame and the internal process you put yourself through.”
Don’t forget negs – they’re the linchpin of the whole book, and vital to any aspiring non-beta.
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Omega Dork – I doubt you’ll find a post like that here since they don’t seem to be Roissy’s style, but it’s not too difficult. The big thing to understand is that, like an “oddball” man, an “oddball” woman is going to be hyper-defensive by default and will be looking for a sign – any sign at all, especially at first – that you’re going to emotionally hurt her. This is going to be a combination of DEFCON-1 anti-slut shields (sex is rare and interesting enough for her where a one night stand would scar her for life) and just general anti-humanity shields (are you interested in her enough to get past her quirks and see the beauty inside, or is she a zoo attraction for you to patronizingly laugh at behind her back?). Coincidentally, this is why these types aren’t Roissy’s style – he doesn’t need to be patient enough to deal with that.
For the rest of us, however…
The first thing to remember is that, if you know you’re dealing with an “oddball”, don’t neg. Just as an “oddball” guy reacts extremely poorly when alphas engage in playful teasing with them, an “oddball” woman will always assume the worst. This does not mean that you should shower them with complements, though – they’re still women, after all, and don’t need to be put on a pedestal. Instead, judiciously use early, casual kino to establish rapport and interest (arm on shoulder, that sort of thing). Be sure to keep it brief and rare at first, then escalate in length and frequency as the conversation progresses – this will communicate to her that you’re becoming more comfortable with her, which will encourage her to do the same with you.
While this is going on, focus on finding out what her interests are and engaging her on them. The goal is to find conversation ground that she’s comfortable pursuing. Don’t get cute and “alpha” with the conversation – remember, your initial goal is to raise her self-esteem enough where she’ll feel comfortable around you and let herself go. However, don’t go try-hard, either; you still need to be “alpha” enough where she looks up to you, but not so “alpha” that she defensively assumes you’re just using her as a tune-up or a pump-and-dump until you can talk to a “real” woman. A good rule of thumb here is to talk to her like she’s a friend that you’ve known for years – if you wouldn’t try so hard in a conversation with your buddies, don’t try so hard with her.
After a combination of kino, rapport-building comfortable conversation, and enough time for her to relax around you, you should start noticing signs of interest from her. The good news is that, since she’s an “oddball”, if she’s going to show interest in you, she’s probably going to swing wildly and unpredictably between inscrutability and “brick upside the head”-level subtlety. This is because she doesn’t have enough experience to “flirt”, so, when she gets the courage to try, she will try way too hard (much as an “oddball” guy would if he were trying to get “flirty”), often with hilarious results. You don’t need to notice all of the inscrutable signs, but try to notice enough of them to respond favorably; this will convince her that you’re the one setting the pace (and, just as importantly, still interested in her) instead of her. At the same time, don’t be afraid to shrug off some of the try-hard flirts from her – she knows she’s trying too hard, so it’s a good, easy shit test for you to flex your alpha chops with. Best of all, if she’s at the point where she’s clumsily flirty, that means she’s comfortable enough with you where you can lightly neg. Make sure to deliver a neg with some kino or other familiarity-building gesture so she takes the neg in the spirit you’re giving it.
Then, when the moment is right, lean in for the kiss… and hold on tight. If you did your job right, she is going to latch on to you like a starving lamprey.
Enjoy!
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Philosopher–
Yuup, that’s me. Doug1 was taken at that site, as were some other closer permutations before the one I hit on being able to use. Yeah, it was meant to suggest it was probably me.
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Jane Austen cried.
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Roissy–
This is golden, and kinda advanced, though very simple to remember, advice.
As well of course, a successfully executed bold early kiss will HUGELY increase your alpha cred, male dominance, and overall attractiveness to her.
A rejected kiss is of course a setback, but it’s not always as fatal as it might seem, esp. if it was attempted very early and boldly. In such cases a total lack of embarrassment on your part, but just a confidant, playful “ok — for now” or such, is likely to earn you success when you try it again later, after some more rapport building.
Of course if you attempt a kiss after she’s definitely decided you’re uninteresting to her sexually, well that just seals your fate WITH HER and you may as well cut your loses right away. Best to take an oh well, we happened not to click attitude, rather than an angry or embarrassed one though. Either is loserish and suggests it about never works for you, not the right image to be leaving around. Even if true you want to start making it no longer true.
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“In the silence, my pupils vibrated along a beam of mental wire connected to her pupils.”
Absolutely exquisite writing.
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“The perfect first kiss is ushered wordlessly, imposed on the woman by sheer force of masculine will, intoxicating in its bold, unspoken grandeur, sophisticated in its exquisite timing.”
–yes….yes it is. To all the men out there–if ever left contemplating…just go for it.
“A nuke could go off downtown and I’ll still take mental note of some random chick looking at me curiously.”
–you make me laugh almost daily. thank you for that. frickin Leo.
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gig-
“What´s next, were you going to tell her that curling is the real beautiful game?”
–curling is almost the perfect metaphorical reference for relationships. All we all are ever doing is “buffing the ice” for the puck to slide for the furthest distance possible. The better one is at buffing the ice, or setting up the atmosphere or vibe, the more success the exchange will have.
On a side note, people don’t bowl anymore, do they? Too bad, it is quite fun in my opinion.
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Excellent comment Doug.
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On negs.
Guys, here’s the key.
You want to use negs on girls who initially think, or want to think and are trying out the proposition, that they’re clearly hotter than you are. Note that hot early and mid 20s American girls in no hurry to find a husband, will these days routinely shit test up the yin yang almost any non celebrity guy, at least if he doesn’t have a rep or other evidence such as hot girl deep attraction to him.
With 7s it really depends on how she perceives you, the venue, her experience, and so on. But ultimately it’s about her level of initial confidence in comparing herself to her first impressions of you. Same with 6’s those this is becoming easy territory for alphas, a too much negging is probably a bad idea. It definitely is if the girl hasn’t got much experience, is a bit older, is shy, or it isn’t a cut throat pickup venue. Again it’s about her initial confidence visa vis you.
With girls who aren’t feeling so confident WITH YOU at first, then it’s best to compliment her on some things. Yes about looks. But say it off handedly. “Of course as a hot girl ….” blah blah. It has to be believable to her coming from you though. With a six and you seeming a clear alpha to her, tell her she has a real sexy vibe, in such a fun girl sort of way (you’re implying not in a trashy slut sort of way by that last). Or something. So long as it has an element at least of truth to it.
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Omega Dork
“In fact, I think an interesting post would be about approaching women who turned out to be weird in some way (and I don’t mean nuts, I mean schizoid, or aspergery).”
Just assume every post here in regards to approaching non-weird women can be utilised for weird ones too.
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Mr. Marquee-
“My question then is can you predict that a bad kisser will also be bad in bed?”
–yes. There is nothing worse in the world than a bad kisser, guy or girl. Having/learning a sense of sensuality helps. Whatever you do, don’t be a bad kisser.
yohami-
“- come here (kiss)
– hey, gimme a kiss (kiss)
– kiss… ? (kiss)
– soo… (kiss)
– yo, gimme a kiss, now (kiss)”
–too funny.
Sparks123-
I am jealous.
Doug1-
As always, kind and patient with the ladies you are.
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fat shout!
http://mangans.blogspot.com/2010/06/question-mark-and-austerians.html#c6626409229061759495
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Ronin–
Yes and no. Some things like rapport building and emotional roller coaster, pushing and pulling back, tend to work with all kinds of girls.
In context by “weird girl” it’s pretty clear he was referring to really shyer or otherwise less confident with in demand guys, types of girls. In those cases what I said above about the key on when to use negs or quite a few of them, and when to avoid them at least at first, is applicable.
Really there’s a very simple rule of thumb on negs. Use them on girls who are or are getting over confident visa a vis you. Avoid them on girls who feel shy and not so confident at the time about you. Even with such girls, as you build rapport and build them up, there will come a time when you should neg them at least some. That roller coaster. That push, then pull back. It’s all part of the same general gestalt of how to be playfully and confidently dominant with girls, but also definitely into their charms and what’s actually special about the girl in question.
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Annoukange–
Thank you Anouk. Though said at rather a far distance or height, I think.
I’ll be devastated if you never flirt w/me even a little again. Bhetti has explicitly green lighted it after all. Yeah it would be just a friendly sort of thing, but I do like and am attracted to you, yes. Though I previously didn’t want to lead you on. That’s now taken care of, so …
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This is very powerful stuff!
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As (believe it or not) a shy girl myself, I think that a neg, properly used, can actually disarm shyness, certainly it has worked on me in this regard, but this is if properly done, if the person doing it is not really good at fine-tuning it can completely destroy the situation. So yes, negs on shy girls are nuclear game or at least tank warfare.
What I would also say is that not all shy girls are immediately perceived as such, we normally get quite good at covering it up throughout our twenties, but it never really goes away.
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Negs are the kind of tactic that game newbies REALLY oughta watch on video to get a better understanding of the what, the how and the why, because some will screw it up horribly, guaranteed.
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@Doug
Whenever a guy talks to a girl, shes being approached. Most girls could fuck whenever/whoever they wanted. They just have to ask. Thats a lot of power, and whats why they shit test you, just to separate you from the crowd of approachers.
That doesnt mean the hundreds of approaches they receive are any good either, but fact is they are being approached and you are the one trying to get in. If she picks you for a date, that means you are already in
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sdaedalus, how old are you?
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I see, its the “be yourself” fight all over again
If you are in a point in which your “self” is socially conditioned, then being yourself is a fuck ass advice. Being yourself is the worst diservice you can do for yourself.
Running game on top of a crappy self reaches the diminishing returns point quickly. Yes, faking confidence brings better results than being an honest coward… but the one faking it aing gonna win it. Not against a real opponent. And it doesnt prepare you for the inner ugliness of the hot chicks.
So, be your ALPHA self.
Play game and mess around to destroy your constructed self, explore and learn and have fun and fucking suffer and learn about yourself. Once you figured out your own path, follow it, alpha style. And let chicks fall for it
Once you did that, you are the shit. The beauty of “being yourself” if that its the opposite of “faking yourself”. Learn the alpha way and be it.
Its the “real man” what they all crave, so become it and girls come naturally.
Having girls ist not even the issue.
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“Just out of curiosity, how many of the guys on this site and in the online Game/PUA community in general actually put this stuff into practice in the real world?”
i sometimes wonder this myself.
i guess you could require guys to post pics of the girls they bang, but for anyone doing this…
…you better get ready for a shit ton of hate from the female commenters and the very real possibility that you will get eventually “outed” when someone recognizes the girl in your pic.
i myself want to start a game blog and post pics of the girls I bang when I move to Austin, TX in a couple months.
but i am worried this would get me “outed” by some LR like commenter who decides to track down the girls the pics.
i don’t know. we will see how i feel in a couple months.
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@Chaucer
I’m in my early to mid 30s. Possibly old enough to know better than to reply to a question like this, but I prefer to be honest.
That is really my age btw, the practice of deducting years is less common in Ireland than I believe it is in the US, possibly because we are a smaller country it makes concealment of one’s real age more difficult.
Now that I’ve answered your question, why don’t you give your age too?
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Anouk is right a kiss is a good tell. If it’s good to great he’ll likely be good to great in bed. Practice your kissing boys.
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“i myself want to start a game blog and post pics of the girls I bang when I move to Austin, TX in a couple months.
but i am worried this would get me “outed” by some LR like commenter who decides to track down the girls the pics.”
Given Texas gun laws, “outed” might be a rather optimistic projection of your prospects. Would get “my carbon footprint eliminated” is a better way to put it.
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I think a lot of what game is about is giving guys the courage to really actually be themselves, and not be afraid. Deep down we are all assholes. It is the fear and nervousness that needs to go, and to let our inner asshole run free. When you truly don’t care, you are a good flirt.
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I had two conversations going on. One with my date (first date) sitting next to me and one in my head.
I looked at my date and I said: Van Gogh sold one painting in his life—to the sister of one of his friends—for 400 francs ($50). He completed over 800 paintings, now worth billions. Who created more wealth? Van Gogh or the MBAs and economists profited while bankrupting Merrill, Lehman, Enron, Fannae, Greece, and the US? Van Gogh or those who transferred massive amounts of wealth on up and debt on down, by merely inflating and deflating fiat bubbles? Is it no wonder, then, that Dante, mentored by Virgil who was mentored by Homer, placed the usurers alongside those who committed crimes against art in the Inferno? And so, if poetic justice is what you seek, more than even gold, then you have come to the right place, for tomorrow the rugged riders of the immortal soul are again setting out again for that epic, shorted wealth of poetry—that heroic virtue which Socrates himself stated was the source of all enduring wealth.
In my head I was going: lzozollzolzzlzozlzlzlozlz
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@yohami
I see, its the “be yourself” fight all over again
If you are in a point in which your “self” is socially conditioned, then being yourself is a fuck ass advice. Being yourself is the worst diservice you can do for yourself.
Running game on top of a crappy self reaches the diminishing returns point quickly. Yes, faking confidence brings better results than being an honest coward… but the one faking it aing gonna win it. Not against a real opponent. And it doesnt prepare you for the inner ugliness of the hot chicks.
Fake confidence long enough and it’s not faking it any more.
So, be your ALPHA self.
And Game is the doorway.
The Threefold path:
– Learn and use Game
– Be interesting: self-improvement
– Play right.
Play game and mess around to destroy your constructed self, explore and learn and have fun and fucking suffer and learn about yourself. Once you figured out your own path, follow it, alpha style. And let chicks fall for it
I like the whole evolutionary biology strategy, as the Germans call it, Evolutiontechnik: do what works.
Once you did that, you are the shit. The beauty of “being yourself” if that its the opposite of “faking yourself”. Learn the alpha way and be it.
Its the “real man” what they all crave, so become it and girls come naturally.
The only thing good about your advice is the fact that your “Be Yourself” path seems to imply: Do what PUAs say, but do it your way. That’s fine – so long as your way actually works.
Having girls ist not even the issue.
No, it’s just one of the goals. But as such, it is *an* issue.
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I’m not dark, just realistic. Can most guys individually apply Game to better their chances. Absolutely. But recall, this is self-selecting. Its guys who already want to make a change and are willing to do what it takes, including brutal rejection, total makeover of their personality in dealing with women, doing the opposite of what they do in work, and practice, practice, practice.
Its akin to Martial Arts or Musical instrument. Anyone can do it, few have the discipline to apply themselves.
Individually, it is entirely realistic to expect a self-selected individual committed to improvement … to improve. Society wide, you’re going to remain with a lot of couch potatoes who can’t fight, don’t play instruments, and have no game.
Lets get to the real reason Sylvia says “be yourself”
IT IS A WAY OF SORTING OUT TRUE ALPHAS. The greatest horror a woman (Sylvia in particular) would have is a “counterfeit Alpha” … a guy who comes on like Russell Brand but really is a nine-to-five nerd at work and at heart. This is the female objection to Game. It allows guys to become better.
AND WOMEN DO NOT WANT GUYS TO GET BETTER. Women want only the top 10% of guys. Period. This is why women view Game with horror. They want, genetically, only the 100% real-deal Russell Brands. The 100% Natural as it were.
This is why men and women are fundamentally different. A guy has no objection to a fatty losing weight and becoming hot. Women DO have objection to Game, their view is that if you were worth having in the first place, you’d be a natural already. You would have been born being a ladies man at age 12 or so. The equivalent of men deciding only women who entered puberty early were worthwhile being around.
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@E
“Just out of curiosity, how many of the guys on this site and in the online Game/PUA community in general actually put this stuff into practice in the real world?”
i sometimes wonder this myself.
i guess you could require guys to post pics of the girls they bang, but for anyone doing this…
…you better get ready for a shit ton of hate from the female commenters and the very real possibility that you will get eventually “outed” when someone recognizes the girl in your pic.
Any guy who actually learns game knows that it’s not stories.
Beta haters and women cry about it. And yet, it works.
You can go out and be beta or learn it and try it. This is the only way to test it.
Oh – and being outed will get lots of people misery: lost jobs (I’d lose mine immediately), broken relationships, all kinds of grief.
Sounds like a bad idea.
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sdaedalus
Oh I believe it. I’ve long thought that was likely. But only in just the way you further explain here. That is, formerly shy. Well you pretty much said you, through the fictional character in one of your posts that you in comments said was largely, were shy in your teens. It also long seemed clear to me that you’d become much less shy together with wise and quite socially adept in many ways in your twenties. But as you say, still with that somewhat shy vulnerable core, that you protect for quite a while with someone – esp. men interested in you.
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Be yourself:
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Chaucer
sdaedalus, how old are you?
She’s legal, relax
*chicnoir enjoys the BhettiMD sanctioned flirting between doug and anouck*
pupu I need your help. There is something I’m trying to do for default user and I think you’re just the lady to help me out.
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pupu I need your help. There is something I’m trying to do for default user and I think you’re just the lady to help me out.
You know his policy on threesomes. And older women (sigh)…
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Uh oh, what’s in your mind, chic? Is it all about counting and who’s counting?
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Kissing:
Women have always said to me: You can tell if a guy will be (minimally) good in bed by how he kisses; and you can tell a lot about his personality by the way he dances.
That’s salsa. But it’s also true, I think. You can work out a lot about a woman by the way she kisses, and the way she dances.
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Gorbachev said–
Yeah, agreed.
All doubters/skeptics–
If you step back and see the larger picture, it’s not so mysterious that game works. Now only lower orders of game hucksters imply or say that game can turn a lower beta into a super alpha w/out limit. To be at the pinnacle of attracting women, you’ve got to have celebrity, or be truly save and genuinely socially and sexually dominant, in a way that’s not faked but durable and most of which is natural. Still some learned game can teach even naturals to sharpen or “tighten” their game, and avoid some beta signals of the wrong sort (rapport building is sometimes called being beta or showing a beta side by girls, as is genuinely caring about a quality girls who is or is becoming nuts about you, but that’s not really right. Those things are orthogonal.)
As I said earlier, one of the crucial things game does is teach guys to throw off the emasculating feminist training that white guys in particular in America and the Anglosphere more generally have heavily been indoctrinated with. All that crap about equalist relationships (meaning clearly female lead whenever she thinks she wants that, and “yes dear you’re right” “and I’m sorry, so sorry” all the time regardless, and doing what she wants or suggests ALL the time, and so on). Game teaches men to lead. Not pig headedly, and it’s best if you keep who she actually is and is interested in mind, but even more so, who you are and are interested in. Girls want to follow guys they’re becoming hot for. Girls want socially and sexually dominant, or at a minimum confident and at least somewhat dominant and interesting doing their thing and not just following the crowd or the woman, type guys.
Game teaches men to be that way. IT does it in baby steps that begin by being more canned in most teachings. Roissy is a bit higher level and more evo psych theory based, with lots of specific principles to keep in mind in game, but he also gives LOTS of concrete examples and nuggets of advice, as he does above today.
It really makes perfect sense that game works. That is, once you see the sexes in a gender realist way, rather that a feminist and chivalrous equalist (false sameness, where “advantageous” to females/feminists) or pretty lies way.
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I don’t think the “just be yourself” advice is consciously or even unconsciously malicious.
A woman gets a strong vibe from an alpha of high value and congruence, that he is just being himself, and this puts her into submissive comfort.
A woman who says “just be yourself” is saying, be high value and congruent, put me in submissive comfort, like alphas do.
“Just be yourself” involves both prizing yourself and being congruent. It’s actually pretty good advice.
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@SD- not that type of thing.
@Pupu- I have a performance in mind for default’s birthday. I need your help.
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Wow, my last comment certainly didn’t help clear up anything.
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@whiskey
its not that women dont want men to get better. Its the whole idea of a movement from A to B is masculine thinking and doesnt fit in women phsyque
the female mind doesnt understand hard work nor its fruits. The female reality is static and magical, stuff happens, or it doesnt. Working for something to happen is unnatural for them, hence they see guys learning game or watever and they think
what the fuck?
any work, for a woman, is working too hard / unnatractive
means their sons will have to work as well. its better to breed naturals
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except if its work for THEM, obviously. that they cant get enough of
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Gorbachev:
Du hast Evolutionstechnik gemeint, oder? Ich finde es außerordentlich nervig wenn Typen wie du denken sie können Deutsch und das soll irgendwie beeindruckend sein — bitte.
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I had two conversations going on. One with my date (first date) sitting next to me and one in my head.
I looked at my date and I said: Van Gogh sold one painting in his life—to the sister of one of his friends—for 400 francs ($50). He completed over 800 paintings, now worth billions. Who created more wealth? Van Gogh or the MBAs and economists profited while bankrupting Merrill, Lehman, Enron, Fannae, Greece, and the US? Van Gogh or those who transferred massive amounts of wealth on up and debt on down, by merely inflating and deflating fiat bubbles? Is it no wonder, then, that Dante, mentored by Virgil who was mentored by Homer, placed the usurers alongside those who committed crimes against art in the Inferno? And so, if poetic justice is what you seek, more than even gold, then you have come to the right place, for tomorrow the rugged riders of the immortal soul are again setting out again for that epic, shorted wealth of poetry—that heroic virtue which Socrates himself stated was the source of all enduring wealth.
In my head I was going: lzozollzolzzlzozlzlzlozlz
flawless
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@GBFM
Sometimes I see the punchline from a mile away, but I enjoy it just the same.
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Gorbachev,
Thanks for helping me realize that I dance the way I f#$%: free and uninhibited alone, reserved and too focused on my partner when with a guy.
Wow. I tone it down while dancing because I don’t like feeling the erection of a person I don’t want to have sex with and I don’t want to lead someone on.
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Yohami,
Women have a different version of “effortless perfection” to deal with: be slender but eat heartily, look great but don’t take a long time to get ready, and the list goes on, Also, hard work may make a person grunt, frown, sweat, and/or curse. None of those actions are considered feminine.
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GBFM strikes again! hahahah
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@E
“”Just out of curiosity, how many of the guys on this site and in the online Game/PUA community in general actually put this stuff into practice in the real world?”
i sometimes wonder this myself.””
Game is a journey not a destination.
It’s something that prior to knowing about “game” I did in a hit and miss fashion.
Now that I better understand the “journey”, the process, I’m better at getting women in the “state”.
But nothing is perfect or goes by the book. Often it’s trial and error for me.
Sometimes timing is off and I can’t make the k-close or something gets in the way, or logistics.
But increasingly by understanding game and the female psychology, one becomes better at it.
The Mystery Method and the “Kiss Test” outlined above require confidence or “inner game” and practice.
I’ve practiced a lot of this on women who don’t matter and then gotten the confidence to use it on women who do.
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Car crash game…
The error here, he offers to buy her a drink…but is this “beta provider game”?
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E–
Don’t do it. Not w/faces or with other recognizable by friend of the girls in question, or them, information. E.g. unusual tats. Etc. Or too much specific background info. (You can talk about what college you went to w/out too much risk all by itself, but if you the include a year graduated, frat, grad school you went to, voila. Combine that with some stories and you’ll be recognizable to some / quite a few you went to schools with, etc.
It’s esp. important to not let yourself become identified/outed if you express non or anti PC opinions on any of a variety of subjects. Remember your views will be exaggerated and distorted, and presented with no favorable context or complexity to your thinking.
Less dangerous but still potentially something that can be used against you is too much revelation of bangs others really won’t approve of. Such as your cheating, or doing married women even if they really wanted it and more came on to you, and so on.
Just revealing banging a good number or lots of hot girls can’t be too much made to stick against you, despite what some girls will try to say. But most male bloggers who get into revealing things about their sex life don’t tend to be so careful about that. The idea for male as well as female sex bloggers is to have a confessional / in truth rather boasting to like thinkers or those who appreciate sort of thing going on.
So the key is to not post information that will reveal your real life identity. That requires a bit of thought. It helps to have read a number of bloggers who are careful and bit sophisticated about this.
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The only kiss routine you need is this: does she hold your gaze for a second longer than is comfortable? If so, you must move.
there’s another level of this, too — a longer, more intense, stare. it’s a nonverbal clue-by-four, an indirect way of being surprisingly direct. as a verbal equivalent, think “my boyfriend is out of town”.
in this rare but delicious situation, you have failed the test if you do anything other than short-circuit, get her out of there, take her somewhere, and fuck her so hard she can’t tell up from down. do not pass go, do not collect $200.
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http://www.virtuallydateariane.com/#
suck it, Sylvia!!! Now even the most dorkish of all the virgins posting here will be able to bang hot chicks!!
once you have banged ariane, no one can stop you!
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Meh, I’ll answer you because I’m bored.
Yeah, you try it out. And it works, and works wonders. I started reading this site right around the time I broke up with my old girlfriend. I learned a few basic tricks, and with a little trial and error of the basic principles Roissy describes, I was in a new girls pants on the second date. The “old” me would never have been that successful.
For example, on our first date, I took the PUA advice of making the date a coffee while strolling through a mall – more exciting than simply sitting down and having a conversation. Lots of conversation starters there (book store, CD/DVD store, etc), and it seems like you’re going on a trip together – with you (the man) leading her, of course. All an application of game principles.
On the second date, I had her leave her car at my place when she came down to see me, and I drove to a sushi restaurant. I was in luck as she wasn’t a practiced chopstick user, which allowed me the excuse of “escalating kino” or touching her hand while I showed her how to manipulate the chopsticks.
The part where she left the car at my place was part of the seduction, which would guarantee that the next part of the date would take place at my apartment. I asked her up to watch a movie, which she agreed to. And then since I had escalated physical contact already, I was able to ask her to sit down on my couch and then sat down confidently beside her and put my arm around her. And I closed the deal. We never did end up watching the movie.
There you go, Sylvie. She was like a 6-7, but the principles, as Roissy says, are the same.
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@Katrin
Gorbachev:
Du hast Evolutionstechnik gemeint, oder? Ich finde es außerordentlich nervig wenn Typen wie du denken sie können Deutsch und das soll irgendwie beeindruckend sein — bitte.
That’s fine, I didn’t say I had a PhD in German nor am I a native speaker. Neither am I trying to impress anyone.
Evolutionstechnik was an actual industrial process invented by German aeronautical engineers whose work I studied a decade ago.
The formal name in English is the German name.
Aber weil ich die Deutsche Sprache liebe, habe ich Deutsch nur fuer sieben jahren studiert. Auch wohnte ich in Deutschland (Dortmund). Ich studierte beim Uni in Deutschland. Was noch wollen Sie?
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@Alana
Gorbachev,
Thanks for helping me realize that I dance the way I f#$%: free and uninhibited alone, reserved and too focused on my partner when with a guy.
Wow. I tone it down while dancing because I don’t like feeling the erection of a person I don’t want to have sex with and I don’t want to lead someone on
I never said to press your hard-on up to a chick when Bachata starts to waft over the sound system. I just said you can tell a lot about a woman (or a man) by the way they dance.
And it’s not about being free or constrained. You’d be amazed what you can pick up. You can see all sorts of things ring through: princesses, showboating, stuffy judgmentalism, bitterness, suspicion.
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That was out of the park GBFM!
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Comment quality is A today.
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@Schmoe:
“I think a lot of what game is about is giving guys the courage to really actually be themselves, and not be afraid. Deep down we are all assholes. It is the fear and nervousness that needs to go, and to let our inner asshole run free. When you truly don’t care, you are a good flirt.”
That’s one of the best comments I’ve read on this site.
One of my pet theories is that being beta is the “default setting” for guys. Guys only become alpha when something goes right, something clicks, and they become confident thereafter.
When I first learned game, I made a list of all the guys I knew who I considered naturals. Here are the three characteristics they tended to have:
1. Extroverted
2. Athletes as a youth and in high school
3. They are not the first-born in their family
I suspect that (1) is often a function of (2) and (3).
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lzozllzzzlz
lzozlzozozlzl
omg lzozlzlzlzllzlz
this girl in this coffee shop is sooooooooooooooooooooooooo hoooooootttt!!!
lzozl
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Top Searches on GBFM blog:
great books for men, great books 4 men, wave thy tongue at me hamlet, greatbooksformen, butthex entitlement
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^^^^^^
lozlzlzlzlzlzl
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Damn! I received this advice two years too fucking late!
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This well-written post reminds me of some dialogue we all had on this forum a year or so back, when we were discussing the various approach methods other PUA’s had concocted in compliment to classic game.
Citizen Renegade is showing some of his readership (especially the newer ones) just how effective and in control of a situation a man who has learned game can be. He has read about her consciousness, subconsciousness, her *involuntary* IOI’s, her subtle “tells” and signals that she is giving off that reveal whats in her hindbrain that she might not even be aware of. I was impressed by the mirroring and how it might be used to build comfort myself, and the verbiage in the post hints at just how aware and in direction of matters a man with game can be over a woman on a date, without her having a clue why she is slowly but surely getting aroused and comforatable, and less inhibited with the man she hardly knows, but wants to impress for some strange reason.
For any of the Chateau’s new readers who are wondering whether or not to give it a try: think of it like going fishing or hunting (or playing video games). You dont have to get married to the next girl you kiss. Try it on women who you think are out of your league for just a damn lark. Drive to the next city where you dont know anyone, and try some of it just for fun. You may pick up the skills you need to get a date with that gal you have secretely had the hots for, but haven’t been able to really make a connection with.
It sure as hell beats watching televsion. They are out there tonight too…………..at the pharmacy, grocery store, movie store, park, shopping mall, coffee shop. Fuck, go to a titty bar, and try to bullshit the strippers. Instead of them playing you for money, you play THEM. The Mystery Method is a affordable short book. Well worth the read. You’ll learn more useful psychology than your Psych 101 class ever showed you.
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GBFM,
After a speech like that and all the platinum-backed lolz in your head, did you break the seal?
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Doug1-
Merci beaucoup pour votre compliment. Vous m’intriguez et sont sage. Ceci est sexy. Bhetti a très bon goût dans les hommes. 😉
GBFM-
–brilliant comment!
yohami-
“If she picks you for a date, that means you are already in”
–yep. That’s why I say go for it.
johnny five-
“there’s another level of this, too — a longer, more intense, stare. it’s a nonverbal clue-by-four, an indirect way of being surprisingly direct.”
–also known as the eye fuck. Great blog by the way, I suspect you are borderline genius.
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A well timed (and well executed) kiss can change the dynamics of a relationship. It is helpful to establish early on what you would like to be. A friend or a lover? The most powerful thing for a woman is knowing that she is wanted. And it doesn’t matter whether you are a romantic or a cynic. This is the moment of truth. And the ball is in her court.
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“pupu
GBFM,
After a speech like that and all the platinum-backed lolz in your head, did you break the seal?”
lozzlzozlzzlo dude i get so much pussy taht now i just go to bed early lottsa nights or work on my art and stuffs lzozlzzlozozl
i mean i can walk into a starbucks see a hottie and go lzozlzlzlzllzzozlzlzzozlzlozlzl and then she’s back at my place drinking wine while i’m playing piano and then bang bang bang bang sploooge on the couch and she goes
“awww awwww uhhh uhhh aww uhh awww uhh yah yah yah yha!” and i finish in a white explosion of luv on her face klzozlzlzlzl not her anus like teh neocons who tape it secretly buthhesx without the girlsths conthent lzozlzl
and then she goes
“omg that was so good. i never do this.” with splooge dripping down her chin and i go, “what do you usually duck lzozllzlzlzlzllz?”
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“But when their change conflicts with our own interests, when it dramatically clashes with what we’ve come to expect of that individual, this is where we doubt their sincerity.”
Rollo, good way to put it. as nietzsche sez: “We resent those who turn out differently than we invented them to be.”
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GBFM on fire. im sure he realized in that comment that socrates HATED poets.
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Sylvia is of course lame. But there is a grain of truth in “be yourself” shit. The whole seduction idea is sort of a meta-oneitis scarcity mentality. I mean there are practical things, like neg and body language and then there’s what 60 calls mental masturbation. Not directed at our host, who actually kinda comes to same conclusion, but why would you “seduce” some frumpy bitch that you not even sure will kiss you. Srsly. Look her in the eyes and go for it. Maybe it’s me finally in the wild, but there’re tons of ’em out there, just pick the ones that do like you (well, after of course being/becoming reasonably likeable by all the common *practical* advice).
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e:
in general, it is not difficult to tell when someone’s writings about personal experiences are genuine.
moreover, as the gap between the reality and popular portrayal of a topic increases, this difficulty decreases even more.
with things like the dance between the sexes, a topic whose mainstream media portrayal is almost the exact obverse of the truth, the degree of experience behind someone’s writings bleeds from their every word with an obviousness that is either authoritative or painful, depending on the outcome.
in particular, you just have to make sure not to say anything that is monumentally stupid. you will always be remembered by the dumbest thing that you have ever said, doubly so on the internet.
quick: think of a quote from dan quayle. or even from obama.
see?
my first obama quote was the one about “all 57 states”.
—
i myself want to start a game blog and post pics of the girls I bang when I move to Austin, TX in a couple months.
as the commenters above have already said, do not try to do this surreptitiously.
however, you could totally pull this off, if you are balls-out enough about it. in fact, if you have the wherewithal to turn a small part of your apartment into an ersatz photography studio, you could be surprisingly direct about their intentions of photographing women in compromising poses.
this approach would be especially delicious in its effectiveness, if you are slightly built and look bohemian enough.
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anouk –
Great blog by the way, I suspect you are borderline genius
are you negging me?
that’s actually a brilliant double entendre; it could be read as adverb+adjective, but also as two adjectives.
kudos if you did that on purpose.
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*YOUR intentions of photographing the women, not “their”.
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“And so, if poetic justice is what you seek, more than even gold, then you have come to the right place, for tomorrow the rugged riders of the immortal soul are again setting out again for that epic, shorted wealth of poetry—that heroic virtue which Socrates himself stated was the source of all enduring wealth.”
lozzlozlozllozlzolzlzol on so many levels.
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johnny,
you are full of sound and fury, signifying pretentious fuck.
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sdaedalus wrote:
Now that I’ve answered your question, why don’t you give your age too?
——————————
23 on Saturday. And I’m English, not American.
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ahe,
what good is sound, without sufficient fury?
and yes, i’ve fucked my share of pretentious women, thanks for asking.
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narciso babaero is me.
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johnny,
your poetic rhetoric seduces female minds like luvsic and JB, but you avoid rational argument. you write as if this were a female forum instead of a male one.
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@Chaucer
23 on Saturday
Happy birthday.
And I’m English, not American
I figured from your name. The reference to America was for all the Yanks on the board to whom my reply is also visible.
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your poetic rhetoric seduces female minds
…aaaaaaaaaaannnnndd that’s the whole point of this forum, now isn’t it.
you avoid rational argument
the phenomena discussed here are primarily empirical. their rational justifications, if indeed such justifications exist, are an afterthought.
in other words, “does it work?” is a much more important question than “why does it work?”
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I could go back to Just Being Myself, allowing the neighborhood slut to chastise me for not taking her to dinner while she was out banging three other dudes on the side, or I could choose to Just Be The Guy I Know I Want/Need to Be and have beautiful, feminine, high value women fall head over heels for me.
Hmmmmm…….
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http://www.latimes.com/business/realestate/la-fi-china-bachelor-20100621,0,6167359.story
OT, I think we had the discussion in some comment thread about China though.
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TRM —
when men say that you should “just be yourself”, they are trying to eliminate competition.
when women say that you should “just be yourself”, this is female-speak for “just be congruent”.
this is really all that needs to be said on the matter.
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“AHE – ahappinessetc
GBFM on fire. im sure he realized in that comment that socrates HATED poets.”
FUCK YOU ASSTARD!!!!
SOCRATES DID NOT AHTE POETS!!!
lzozlzlzlzlzo
the internet is filled with so many cumguzzling assdweebs like ahe (asstard handjobber everyday) that someimtes i wish al gore owuldn’t have invented it lzozlzozlzlzlzlzl
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gbfm is roissy
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“FUCK YOU ASSTARD!!!!
SOCRATES DID NOT AHTE POETS!!!”
yeah, huh.
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“I decided that it was not wisdom that enabled poets to write their poetry, but a kind of instinct or inspiration, such as you find in seers and prophets who deliver all their sublime messages without knowing in the least what they mean.”
— Socrates
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i’ve let my mother know that i have been persuaded to study the works of ludwig von mises.
i’m not yet prepared to share this with my dad, as he once converted big-time gold piles into fiat balloons specifically so that i would never learn to give credence to such theory.
pops advertises chicago but votes keynesian… so he probably deserves what’s coming, at least as much as any non-desouled soul deserves victimhood.
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In the Republic, the poets are banned because they speak falsehoods. The pretty lies of their time.
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“Just out of curiosity, how many of the guys on this site and in the online Game/PUA community in general actually put this stuff into practice in the real world?
I see a lot of bragging by keyboard PUAs, but what I suspect what is really happening here is people immersing themselves in theory, but not actually trying it out on real women. At least, certainly not the 9′s and 10′s that people on here boast about netting.
I believe that, underneath all the machismo, there are a lot more male virgins in here than is at first apparent. It’s one thing to discuss Game at length, it’s another to walk up to a woman and actually try it.
My advice to all the keyboard seductors is to ditch this Game stuff and just be yourself.”
Okay, came across this early in the comments and have to respond with a personal testimonial:
I am in the middle of a seemingly never-ending divorce. I’ve been checking out Roissy and Roosh for the past 6 months (even bought The Hirsute One’s book). I started working out again and dropped 19 lbs. -I’m looking better than I ever have in my life. Wanna know what else I’m getting better than I ever have? 🙂
The principles and techniques I’ve learned about Game have opened up all sorts of possibilities for me. With each success and failure I can reflect on the episode and then reference which aspect of game I successfully employed or which beta-ism proved my undoing. It works -like clockwork.
I understand the whole JBY theme -unfortunately, your cursory study of Game has led you to believe that it’s all a facade. An act merely designed to “trick” women into sex. Au contraire, every single player will tell you the same thing: learn the principles and then incorporate them and make them a part of WHO YOU ARE. In doing these things and giving off the proper social cues, you create the interest from the opposite sex that you seek. No trickery involved, whatsoever.
Just like changing my diet and exercising has helped my physical appearance, Game has changed my total self-image. Frankly, I was already doing a lot of things right -I just kept managing to screw up the little things (Roissy had a post on this recently that really hit upon this point; sometimes it’s just a matter of NOT screwing it up). After a number of previous successes, I had the confidence last weekend to invite a table of four lovely young ladies up to my room -and, wouldn’t ya know?, it worked. It’s not like the whole conversation went smoothly up to that point either – lots of cockblockery from one of them. Still, I maintained my cool and presence of mind and they all followed the Alpha cues I was dropping. Awesomeness!
[N.B. -No, that night didn’t end in sex. I’m still learning these things and apparently I failed in not amping up the “kino escalation”. To say nothing of the fact that I still don’t know how to divide and conquer just yet. So much to learn!]
I’m still picking out that fine line between Alpha and Asshole – but I’m getting there. There’s no way I’m going to go back to JBY, though. “Just being myself” got me into a marriage where I was practically on all fours wearing an apron all the time (figuratively speaking). Even now, though, when I use the principles of Game on my ex IT WORKS. I can re-direct and stop her BS.
I’ve come to realize that women have no clue whatsoever what turns them on. This has its plusses and minuses. On the minus side, I’ve come to realize that you should never ask a woman her advice on how to win over another woman. On the plus side, rudimentary aspects of Game can be deployed at will with great success by even rank amateurs such as myself. Why? BECAUSE WOMEN LOVE GAME, TOO! Sweetness.
By the way, as stated previously “underneath all the machismo” is even more machismo…and underneath Chuck Norris’s beard is another fist. That is all.
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This was written with a surprising amount of sentimentality.
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I’ve always thought that Mystery’s “do you want to kiss me?” routine was like one last lingering part of their past betaism that they didn’t feel like letting go of.
Especially with as good as they are at reading body language and verbal cues….why they decide to make themselves sound unsure of the situation by asking this is beyond me.
Not to mention the fact that a lot of the tougher girls to seduce will look at you like you’re a total idiot if you ask for a kiss (instead of simply going for it.)
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@Vavafaxa
The sentimentality is not surprising at all when read in light of the entire oeuvre, particularly the famous Perfect Woman post:-
http://roissy.wordpress.com/2008/04/07/the-perfect-woman/
Imo not the dash of sentimentality is what makes this site more popular than Roosh or VK’s site for instance. Yes, the writing is better, but that is not the only reason.
Of course, one never knows whether the sentimentality is real, manufactured or wishful thinking/a la recherche de temps perdu, and this no doubt further adds to the appeal.
PS: btw it is interesting that the first person to comment on the sentimentality was a chick. I wonder whether or not this is because women are less rather than more sentimental?
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Une femme qui parle français. Je suis séduit.
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[…] have to assume she’s sufficiently comfortable and go in for the kiss. According to Roissy, holding eye contact longer than normal is enough of a signal. Also, when they do give a strong signal, you know you’re in. Once a shy girl touches you […]
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johnny five-
“are you negging me?”
–well I am trying to get in your pants. 😉
vasafaxa-
“This was written with a surprising amount of sentimentality.”
–that’s part of the recipe that makes him such a masterful writer…his heart. (when he shows it). He’s good at both the technical and the emotional details. Read some of the older posts…he’s a big softy in those. Too cute.
thunear-
C’est la langue d’amour!
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speaking of sentimentality.
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@anoukange
L’amour? C’est la langue du baisage.
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When leaning in for a kiss…and she turns her head…what’s the correct reaction?
I’ve kissed on the cheek. Or slowly pulled away. Struggling with her head like I’m a school marm about to wash her mouth out with soap…doesn’t seem to be the smartest move.
Any advice?
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Wala – carry on as if nothing happened, and try again.
Don’t kiss the cheek, that rewards bad behavior.
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go for the neck or the ear. enough cannot be said about these two parts of the female anatomy.
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I think people like Sylvia are only aware of the “hard” form of game – getting new chicks to go to bed with you, enabling promiscuity Neil Strauss-style.
In fact, game is an overall personality improvement project that starts with buffing up one’s social presentation improving your understanding of interpersonal relation and communication, esp with women (since society teaches men LOTS of pretty lies about what women want and how women communicate).
It’s like lifting weights for your personality to make it more toned and get more “gravitas” so that you can do the things you want to do more effectively.
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Jesus, people, quit qualifying yourselves to Sylvia.
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roissy, this is great realism. its a strange moment when a girl ‘slips’ your kiss close over the shoulder… i
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ahappinessexperiment wrote
“I decided that it was not wisdom that enabled poets to write their poetry, but a kind of instinct or inspiration, such as you find in seers and prophets who deliver all their sublime messages without knowing in the least what they mean.”
– Socrates
lzozlzl hey fucktard
i know that
what you are missing in your fanboy philosophy education is taht when he faced death, socrates compared himself to achilles who he knew about because of homer so homer taught socrates the heroic spirit you crazy fuck and socrates did not *hate* homre like yu said as he is always referencing him even as he faces death and will oon be killed put to death by fiat fucktards like you lzozlzollzll:
“Someone will say: And are you not ashamed, Socrates, of a course of life which is likely to bring you to an untimely end? To him I may fairly answer: There you are mistaken: a man who is good for anything ought not to calculate the chance of living or dying; he ought only to consider whether in doing anything he is doing right or wrong – acting the part of a good man or of a bad. Whereas, according to your view, the heroes who fell at Troy were not good for much, and the son of Thetis above all, who altogether despised danger in comparison with disgrace; and when his goddess mother said to him, in his eagerness to slay Hector, that if he avenged his companion Patroclus, and slew Hector, he would die himself – “Fate,” as she said, “waits upon you next after Hector”; he, hearing this, utterly despised danger and death, and instead of fearing them, feared rather to live in dishonor, and not to avenge his friend. “Let me die next,” he replies, “and be avenged of my enemy, rather than abide here by the beaked ships, a scorn and a burden of the earth.” Had Achilles any thought of death and danger? For wherever a man’s place is, whether the place which he has chosen or that in which he has been placed by a commander, there he ought to remain in the hour of danger; he should not think of death or of anything, but of disgrace. And this, O men of Athens, is a true saying. ”
–http://classics.mit.edu/Plato/apology.html
lozlzlz
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I enjoy Roosh more than Roissy lately, but both have gotten a little repetitive.
As for the sentimentality, I think Roissy is just a master of contrast game.
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lol the last girl i had sex with , i didnt even kiss her on the lips for once .
nipping the ear ? yes
kiss the neck ? yes
heavy kino on body ? yes
kiss on the lips ? no
tips for me on kissing :
kiss the girl on high note ( when she is dancing screaming laughing on the dance floor ) , basically whenever her emotions are high ( which require a considerable amount of emotional intelligence ) , or when she get really angry / horny etc etc .
Signs or IOIs before kissing? dont look/ or wait for it , *feel * it instead . Once you see the common IOIs , its already too late .
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@Vavafaxa
I think the contrast element is a big element in the literary style of the original writer of this blog, without the sadistic posts the sentimental points would not have as much appeal and vice versa. It would be interesting to track the occurrence of the sadistic & sentimental posts, I would suspect that they are finely timed for contrast.
The interesting thing about this blog is that not only does it talk about Game, but it actually applies Game in the writing, it games the reader, male & female, including myself and yourself, into coming back for more.
Have you been over to johnnyfive’s blog yet? He does the same thing.
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Good stuff on kissing, better than my answer. I think, I’ll have to test. Thanks.
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I doubt that, barring 8-10s, women are approached by men several times a day.6s could go weeks or perhaps months without being approached at all.
Lose the doubts about doubts, lose the polite intros, think clearly, articulate clearly. Hesitancy in thoughts for the sake of some stupid politeness, correctness leads to hesitancy in actions. Lose it real fast.
Believe in certainities, speak them out loud, someone might point out that they are wrong, correct them if they are so.
And don’t worry, for most of the times the corrector would be a man. If it’s a woman you tell her the most audacious reasons for rationalizing it and she’ll laugh it off. If she doesn’t, you’re wasting time with her.
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when you guys said 9 and 10 , do you mean a rare girl of very high quality in beauty and personality .
Or , do you mean attention whores , who get approached by men too many times a day
I dont see the connections between 9 and 10 with the numbers of guys approaching her every day , that is just irrelevant .
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“The perfect first kiss is ushered wordlessly, imposed on the woman by sheer force of masculine will, intoxicating in its bold, unspoken grandeur, sophisticated in its exquisite timing. ”
I love this paragraph. Pure and simple.
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“I wonder whether or not this is because women are less rather than more sentimental?”
sentimentality is a male invention, and men are most susceptible to it. witness it in patriotism, country songs, and football games. men like to pretend they are proud when they cry.
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@Happinessexperiment
Imo, younger women are particularly unsentimental. That’s why I was struck by the fact that Vavafaxa (the baby of the board) was the one who raised the sentimentality issue. In contrast, men tend to get less sentimental with age.
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@ahappiness experiment
men tend to get less sentimental with age.
At least as regards women. They tend to get more sentimental about football though.
PS: Vasafaxa, reference to you in the above comment intended as compliment rather than insult, and apologies for the persistent misspelling of your name.
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Haven’t been to Johnny-Five yet. Nor have I seen him on my blog yet. I’ll have to check him out. And I’m the baby of the board. Cute! I’ve always been the oldest. And I’ve never been sentimental, although I do on occasion like Andrew Loyd Weber, but that’s only because he just stole everything from Puccini and I like Puccini so it follows. Otherwise things like Hallmark cards, country music, patriotism, school spirit, and other forms of group-bonding sentimentality make me uncomfortable.
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lozlzlzlzzozl
also to say that socrates hated the poets is to forget the fatc that socrtatests was an aweomse poet read teh apolgy and you will see what i mena lzolzlzl and too the apology reads like a story with characters and dialogue a beginning middle and end written by the poet plato lzozlzlzlzozozzol who is to separfate poetry from philsophy for can you say that shakepseare kjnew nothing of philosophgy and that nietchethtzhe nitezche knew nothing of poetrty? lzozlzlozlzlzlozlolz
take me for expamole i ma the mastye rpoet philsopher warrior poet warrior philospher scientist renaissance man lzozlzlzlzlzll lieterya mast ia m da GREAT BOOOOKS 4 MENZ!!!
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“In contrast, men tend to get less sentimental with age.”
good point. the main purpose of sentimentality is to bond young men in preparation for war, therefore less need for women and old men to be sentimental.
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This post could not have come at a better time. I had exactly that sort of too-long-for-comfort eye contact just last night, and went for the kiss. A long, satisfying makeout session followed.
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Women may be sentimental in a general sense; they aren’t sentimental about men specifically. If you require evidence, eavesdrop on girl talk for 30 sec.
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Roissy wrote: “But still, I needed a sign. There is always a sign if you look for it.”
In these sorts of situations, the only question is whether or not you have built enough attraction and comfort.
With the right body language and a set of stainless steel huevos, you don’t even need a sign. You can just go for it, and after a briefer-than-she-hoped-for, little-or-no-tongue kiss, push her away (out of your space, even if you went into hers to get it) and look absentmindedly elsewhere, like you can’t bear to focus on her.
Withdraw from her physically somewhat. Silence is actually ok here. Watch as she makes a damn-clear sign in the next ten minutes. Smirk as the tongue exercises commence.
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GBFM,
By treating something as a commodity, you have turned your pursuit of it into a job. Whether the commodity is fiat funded or not does not enter the equation. Passion comes from the pursuit of something unique, not something scarce.
You apparently have turned your passion to some unique dead people, instead of a living love of your life. Fair enough, that is a safe and sound strategy. It is a matter of preference, really.
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pupu was only observing not criticizing.
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ahappinessexperiment wrote: “sentimentality is a male invention, and men are most susceptible to it. witness it in patriotism, country songs, and football games. men like to pretend they are proud when they cry.”
Gets the females. (Ever wonder how Tucker Max got to getting that buttsex illicitly taped?)
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so i know this thread has gone stale, but i’m going to drop a little golden nugget of radical reframing here.
in response to this:
The only kiss routine you need is this: does she hold your gaze for a second longer than is comfortable? If so, you must move. Failure to do so will constitute the loss of a magical moment that will never quite be recaptured in the same way again
so there are four levels here, not two.
level 1: autistic level
you don’t recognize the signal at all.
level 2: afc level
you recognize the signal, but your paralyzing self-doubt either (a) talks you into thinking it’s not really a signal after all, or (b) keeps you from acting on it.
level 3: pua level
you act on it.
you kiss her.
wait for it…
level 4: pimp level
you recognize the signal.
you call her on it.
you tell her you ain’t giving her what she wants, just yet, until she does _________.
y’see, there’s still some reframing that you reframers have to do here.
even at level 3, you are still mentally in the submissive role, having to recognize signals, pass tests, etc. in order to earn juicy sexual favors to slobber up from your little doggy bowl.
fuck
that.
at level 4, you are the one doing the gatekeeping, doling out the shit tests, and generally controlling the pace of the interaction, and she’s the one trying to earn favors from you.
with a girl who’s a long-term prospect, you can take your little three-date rule, crumple it up, and throw it into the fire.
at level 4, YOU are the one who’s making HER wait. and if you make her wait more than three dates, or five, or … however many*, then oh boy the explosions you’ll get when you finally let HER have what SHE wants.
and oh boy the shit you can demand from her in return.
this PUA shit is only a preview of what you can accomplish if you set your mind to it.
—
*while you fuck other girls on the side, of course.
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… sheer force of masculine will, intoxicating in its bold, unspoken grandeur…
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@johny5, agreed
In my own words, just kiss the girl if / whanever you want to.
And grab her with both hands while you are at it. One hand at her neck, the other one in her ass. Need signals for that? does she have to tell you EVERYTHING?
lol
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Damn – I crossposted this thought first onto another thread. Got to re-file the idea here.
Unless I’m fucking, I don’t really like to kiss. Kissing isn’t a part of my seduction process, nor a part of foreplay.
Unless there is penetration going on, I’m just not into it.
So for me, when is the right time to lean in? After we are naked and boffing.
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Holy shit can you update already. Your analysis is way off on this and making your blog look bad. It’s painful to witness this train wreck, clearly have not been to China and basing your judgment on other highly biased sources.
If you think about it common sense would indicate that Muslim women would be hardest to “game.” They are covered up and you can’t bang em till they become your wife. They get killed if they lose their virginity before marriage. All that would probably make it hardest to game. Hurry up and write another entry that doesn’t suck. Maybe about alphas for a change.
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@Johnny 5
“”with a girl who’s a long-term prospect, you can take your little three-date rule, crumple it up, and throw it into the fire.””
Great post.
This validates the one persistent confusion I’ve had about game: the difference between short-term and longer term.
In the short term, going for it and letting chips fall where they may is the deal.
In longer-term, it could be someone you know, in your social circle, that you see and want to qualify and by making her wait and wonder while still gaming…you dial-up the heat.
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walawala,
The hard part is being flexible enough to determine whether STR or LTR is the objective without losing momentum. The crude and common way to do it is to try to get into her pants fast, if she goes for it she is to be treated as slutty, otherwise she is a potential LTR.
But that is a VERY crude first approximation. Sometimes you will hit things so perfectly that a non-slutty girl will fall into bed with you right away even when she has never done anything like that before — she shouldn’t be ruled out as an LTR prospect if that is the case.
Conversely, some sluts are also golddiggers who will put up a show of resistance to get you thinking of her as LTR material, and then will tool you.
Finally, some high-quality girls will be turned off by attempts to sluttify them — if you are not very smooth about it you can lose a genuine LTR prospect.
You should get advice from more experienced players on this issue.
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@ walawala
In longer-term, it could be someone you know, in your social circle, that you see and want to qualify and by making her wait and wonder while still gaming…you dial-up the heat.
oh yeah. now we’re talking.
tell me walawala:
have you ever seen the shit that groupies will do to try to get stars to fuck them?
do you think that’s abnormal?
it’s not.
that is the intensity of normal sexual desire, walawala. that is an intensity no stronger than, indeed possibly weaker than, the desire that a normal man has to fuck a passably attractive woman he’s just seen in the street.
the only difference is that men experience that desire day in and day out, and so have learned to keep it hidden, mostly to prevent social ostracism but also to protect against reprisals from various parties.
women rarely experience that feeling, so they aren’t as well schooled in keeping it under wraps.
if you take control of the situation, and start grabbing power by denying a woman the sexual thrill she wants from you?
YOU, walawala, can drive her to the same distraction you see at stage’s edge at the rock concert.
YOU can do that.
and it doesn’t even take that much — it just takes sufficient presence to build attraction in her, followed by strategic denial of that attraction.
you wouldn’t believe the shit you can make women do for you when you’re holding the doggie biscuit just out of their reach.
haha.
they are creatures who are happiest when degraded, so it’s no surprise that they will debase themselves to such an extent. and they’ll get wet doing it.
no woman is as wet, slutty, and eager to please as one who’s spent the last X amount of time chasing a receding doggie biscuit.
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@polymath
Finally, some high-quality girls will be turned off by attempts to sluttify them
only if they notice the door opening.
if they wake up one day to find the sluttiness door wide open, and the moths of debasement flying in by the score, they’ll lay all the blame conveniently at their own stripper-heel-clad feet.
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@polymath
The hard part is being flexible enough to determine whether STR or LTR is the objective without losing momentum. The crude and common way to do it is to try to get into her pants fast, if she goes for it she is to be treated as slutty, otherwise she is a potential LTR
the problem with “getting into her pants fast” is that this almost always leads to a relatively lifeless, boring experience of fucking the girl, unless she has already been chasing you for a while for whatever reason.
if you already have pussy on the side, it’s better to reframe, as i said above, and make her chase — the more you prolong the chase, the better and more cathartic the fucking is going to be for her (and thus for you).
ironically, you can sometimes get the best results from making a really slutty girl wait; these girls have absolutely the least experience with delayed gratification. they don’t delay gratification at all to themselves or to alpha players, and they aren’t struggling with anything to delay gratification to beta chumps who want to bankroll them.
if you’re the first person in a slutty girl’s entire life — including daddy, previous boyfriends, etc. — to cram some future time orientation down her throat and give her the female equivalent of blue balls, you can make her do some very, um, nice things for you.
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@walawala and anyone else who doesn’t know, narciso is me.
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johnny five-
What you speak of is the mental shag. What woman doesn’t want to be mentally shagged prior to the physical one? You are too devious and smart but you make some key points. Also, if there is true connection, it is better to prolong the wait time before the deed. Put it on simmer. This is what appears to be lost in some of the pushings of game playing…the enjoyment of seduction.
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@anoukange and Johnny Five,
What you speak of is the mental shag. What woman doesn’t want to be mentally shagged prior to the physical one? You are too devious and smart but you make some key points. Also, if there is true connection, it is better to prolong the wait time before the deed. Put it on simmer. This is what appears to be lost in some of the pushings of game playing…the enjoyment of seduction.
I’ve always been an advocate of the slow, methodical seduction. Occasionally, the fast game – go get her approach is necessary, and it goes down like clockwork if it’s done properly.
But the slow seduction usually (though not always) reaps greater rewards.
For everyone.
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[…] Breaking The Seal, Staying One Step Ahead Of […]
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[…] Breaking the Seal and Staying One Step Ahead of Suspicious […]
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“”The only kiss routine you need is this: does she hold your gaze for a second longer than is comfortable? If so, you must move. Failure to do so will constitute the loss of a magical moment that will never quite be recaptured in the same way again.””
Just an update. I’ve been slowly introducing these various game techniques.
I tried this one the other night.
Situation: Korean cougar neighbour. Had known her several years, gone out on dates etc…she was always holding back. A bit nuts, always asking me about whether I was banging other chicks.
She moved into my building several floors down, called a few days ago to let me know and suggested we meet up sometime.
I invite her over for “tea”. She comes over immediately with bottle of wine. Has a drink, says she’s been golfing all day and is a little drunk.
I initiate kino. She’s into it.
Then the shit tests: “You have lots of women over here?”
Me: 20, 30, hard to keep track.
Her; My apartment is similar to your lay out but I don’t have girls coming over like you do.
Me: Yah, the minute they come over they drag me to bed.
Her: I haven’t don’t that…
Me: Not yet….
shit-tests stop.
I put on Californication.
Then I go for it as mentioned above.
No resistance.
Lessons: Kino, must be initated always. Otherwise, ANY move would be creepy.
Shit-tests: must be handled deftly. Or make-out move would be rejected.
When she pulls away, pull her closer harder.
Old me…without game…would have fumbled through shit tests and missed out on with going for the make out and blowing it because of the lack of mood.
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[…] little routine, and will probably work in most situations, but I have found through experience that it’s totally unnecessary. If you are winning a girl over with your game, you can silently go for the kiss without any […]
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[…] little routine, and will probably work in most situations, but I have found through experience that it’s totally unnecessary. If you are winning a girl over with your game, you can silently go for the kiss without any […]
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