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Chateau Heartiste

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Staying One Step Ahead Of Suspicious Women

June 22, 2010 by CH

Match.com has an article called ‘Are You Dating A Player?‘ which warns women away from players by identifying some telltale signs of the inveterate philanderer (i.e., the man most attractive to women).

He’s bold. For the player, the pickup is a game. He doesn’t approach women with the same nerves or awkwardness of a normal guy. He’ll walk up confidently, with a big smile and great eye contact. His manner will be smooth and put-together. This doesn’t mean you should look for the opposite — a stuttering wreck — but be wary of a guy who acts completely bulletproof. A little anxiety is natural.

This is a good point. Overqualification is a bigger problem than most men realize, and can kill a pickup in its infancy. Advanced players understand that demonstrating a hint of vulnerability is integral to the seduction process, particularly when the target is insecure about her looks. It’s OK to be cool as a cucumber when approaching 9s and 10s (or even 8s if you look like the type of guy who shouldn’t be dating 8s), but for any other woman, showing a flash of nervousness while still maintaining state control can go a long way toward endearing you to her. I wouldn’t show nervousness in your body language, though. Confident body language is too important to pressing women’s attraction buttons to risk mucking up. Instead, look down after you introduce yourself and say something like “I can’t believe I’m doing this”. All it takes is a subtle gesture to communicate a touch of anxiety. The uglier the girl is, the more you’ll have to pretend to be a marble-mouthed nervous wreck. But then, why are you hitting on ugly girls?

He declares his feelings right away. Players employ a “fast come-on,” according to Dr. Kalish, making sweeping statements of affection (e.g., “You’re the most perfect woman I’ve ever met”) from the word go. These declarations can feel very welcome, especially if you’ve been in a string of relationships that lacked such intimacy. Just remember that true closeness takes time, and it’s normal for a guy to be more guarded about his emotions.

This is wrong. *Phony* players who imagine they are Don Juan of the downtown declare their feelings of love right away. Actual players who know the score do no such thing. They know that women crave the challenge of winning a man’s affection. Direct game like this can work, but generally only in limited contexts, such as with women who aren’t especially hot. And players who advocate direct game usually revert to indirect game soon after the opener.

He always plans romantic dates. Dating for the player is kind of a performance art. And he’s going to be good at it. “He won’t just bring a box of chocolates,” Dr. Kalish warns. “He’ll take you to a state fair and offer to share cotton candy.” Nice guys can be romantic, too, but life with them won’t always feel like a Robert Pattinson movie. Nonstop rooftop picnics and weekends at the cottage could be too much.

I wouldn’t worry about this. Women universally love men who take them on creative, inspired dates. (NOTE: Creative != expensive.) But there is such a thing as overkill. I wouldn’t put much date effort into a chick I haven’t banged yet. If you want to be on the safe side, save your creative, romantic dates until after you’ve banged her.

He has lots of acquaintances, no close friends. The player tends to be a lone wolf. That doesn’t mean he lacks for golfing buddies. The same way he charms women, he can charm lots of people in his life. The key is that, in friendship as in romance, his affections run broad but not deep. If solid pals are hard to come by with this guy, consider yourself warned.

She’s not going to find out about the structure of your friendships until well after you’ve fucked her, so this supposed red flag should be of zero concern to you. I don’t even think this is true. I know ladies’ men who have very deep friendships, with both men and women.

He’s a thrill-seeker. A guy who spends his spare time looking for a rush — fast driving, bungee jumping, kite-boarding, heli-skiing — should give you pause. This type, says Dr. Kalish, craves the excitement that comes from conquering a difficult challenge, and that goes for his relationship goals as well. Once he’s “conquered” you, your allure may quickly fade.

Yeah, I suppose this is a tipoff. If you’re really worried about pinging a girl’s play-dar, then just cut back on the skydiving, champ.

***

The second half of the article describes five signs that the man she is dating is a niceguy. Thus, you should pay attention to this advice if you want to do nothing but masturbate for the rest of your life.

He’s goofy. The sincere suitor is not suave. He doesn’t always say the right thing.

Vulnerability game. Just don’t overdo the goofiness. The niceguy is effortlessly goofy because his lack of confidence gets the better of him. This is not what women want. What they do want is an effortlessly suave man who is occasionally goofy. This will make him seem attainable without sacrificing his raw sex appeal.

He remembers personal details and events. It’s the most basic way to show someone you care — by learning about his or her life and interests.

Awful advice for any man. Women don’t want you to remember personal details about them; at least, not until it matters, like when she’s hinting at marriage and she wants to see signs of commitment from you. Caring carebears do not get laid. Careless assholes do.

He treats his mama right. Generally speaking, a loving family begets a loving person, and the opposite is also true.

Don’t Lotharios have a reputation for being mammas’ boys? Regardless, this is a stupid sign to look for. Men with even half a brain are not going to introduce girls they haven’t had sex with yet to their mothers. If you’re not a complete feeb, she’ll never know what your relationship with your mother is like until well after many sessions of intimacy have transpired.

He can mingle. “The sincere guy doesn’t mind being in a room with people who are more accomplished than he is,” Dr. Kalish says.

Wrong. Players are almost universally better minglers than are niceguys. Niceguys may be good listeners, sure, but that’s because they’re too boring to contribute to the conversation.

He says, “I love you.” As fawning as a player’s affections are, there’s still something sacred about the L-bomb. Kalish found that insincere men would say, “I want to grow old with you,” or “I want to have children with you,” but “I love you” remained somehow off limits. A guy who says those three magic words may very well mean them.

I see the problem here. The author is conflating “insincere men” with “players”. The two are not the same. A player can easily fall head over heels in love with a woman, and declare it from the rooftops. He just happens to do this with a lot of women, instead of just one.

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Posted in Game, Girls, Rules of Manhood | 267 Comments

267 Responses

  1. on June 22, 2010 at 10:19 am The Truth

    This Dustin Goot cat looks like a typical mangina.

    LikeLike


  2. on June 22, 2010 at 10:25 am OI

    i’ve found it beneficial to to browse the dating advice and strategy articles women are reading on occasion. they put things in perspective, are usually good for a laugh and, of course, as in this case, help you stay one step ahead.

    LikeLike


  3. on June 22, 2010 at 10:32 am Puma

    Whether you are a player or a niceguy, when you hit the clubs you can all benefit from the company of the world’s best wing-man … Jake!

    He’s a real natural. 🙂

    LikeLike


  4. on June 22, 2010 at 10:44 am montzilla

    Nice guys can be romantic, too, but life with them won’t always feel like a Robert Pattinson movie.

    Unless you’re dating a vampire.

    LikeLike


  5. on June 22, 2010 at 10:56 am Balzac

    I always read these articles anymore. It’s interesting to see how easy it is to pick out bad advice. I’m not quite to the point of assuming all of these articles are what-not-to-do lists, but I’m getting there.

    LikeLike


  6. on June 22, 2010 at 11:08 am Sam Spade

    This is my favorite thing about game, or pickup, or seduction – whatever you want to call it. The Art/Science of Seduction.

    That is, Roissy is laying it out for all player-wary females to see. He’s happily dispelling myths and telling it like it is. Any woman can come to this site, print up the page, memorize it, and use it in her “Player Defense” arsenal.

    And yet, this will not happen on a large scale. Game will continue to work for studious men with resounding success. Women can talk all they want about being wary of players, but in practice, they are like moths to flame. Just because the playbook has been left in the locker room doesn’t mean it’s worthless.

    Of course, as long as there are women and beta AFC men voicing protest, there will always be the Myth of the Nice Guy sucking a good proportion of men into its vortex. This winnows down the pool for the real players and keeps a good level of cognitive dissonance going in the female brain before and after she’s slept with one.

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  7. on June 22, 2010 at 11:08 am KK

    In yet another confirmation of the Roissyverse.

    AMSTERDAM — Murder suspect Joran van der Sloot is talking plenty — just not to the judge investigating his case.

    The 22-year-old Dutchman is quoted in an interview published Tuesday as boasting that he has received several marriage offers from women while in his jail cell in Lima, Peru, where he is awaiting trial for allegedly killing 21-year-old Peruvian Stephany Flores.

    “One of them even wants me to get her pregnant,” De Telegraaf newspaper quoted Van der Sloot as saying.

    http://www.foxnews.com/world/2010/06/22/report-murder-suspect-van-der-sloot-boasts-receiving-marriage-proposals-cell/

    LikeLike


  8. on June 22, 2010 at 11:30 am Mr. Marquee

    I’ve never met a chick who didn’t love a player.

    LikeLike


  9. on June 22, 2010 at 11:37 am Science

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  10. on June 22, 2010 at 11:39 am tom

    lol true players dont play the game they play the girl instead

    LikeLike


  11. on June 22, 2010 at 11:40 am Ulysses

    This Dr. Kalish character is amusing. In his estimation a player has many shallow relationships, but isn’t adept at mingling and working a crowd. This dude is just making shit up as he goes along.

    LikeLike


  12. on June 22, 2010 at 11:42 am dalrock

    A player can easily fall head over heels in love with a woman, and declare it from the rooftops. He just happens to do this with a lot of women, instead of just one.

    I posted on a previous thread about my college friend/roommate who was a natural PUA. He couldn’t teach us about game because he didn’t understand what he was doing as a true natural. But the above statement describes him perfectly.

    He fell madly in love several times a week. The last I saw him was at his wedding. In retrospect we shouldn’t have laughed at him when he told us he was getting married, especially with his fiancée present. Likewise we probably should have been more discreet in setting up the betting pool on how long before he cheated on her. Strangely she took this all in stride, and never lost her “I’m so in love” grin.

    LikeLike


  13. on June 22, 2010 at 11:56 am tom

    -1 . if you are a natural , there will be a slight bit of nervousness whenever you go up to a random girl . if you are a well planned / well prepared/ well practices un-natural game kind of guy , you would hit the point where there is no more nervousness . So dont go too smooth , dont practices , dont ” fake it until you make it ” , start making it instead .

    -2 . direct game works , not to say it works a lot better on more beautiful women , but it has to be a sincere compliment .

    -3 . true players dont “date” its pretty much one of the first rule for players : make it look like a “meet up” instead of a date , the further away it sound like a date , the better . get the girl to come hang out with you and your friends / your work mate or something like that would be more player ‘s style . make it casual.

    -4 . agreed , point 3 already taken out point 4.

    -last point : He says, “I love you.”

    real player know how to play girl’s emotions like a musical instrument , and saying emotionally charged words like ” love ” would be quite common. however use it at the right time and right place , example : during sex while you are choking her whisper into her ear ” i love you ” and watch her burst into tears .

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  14. on June 22, 2010 at 12:02 pm sdaedalus

    Any smart woman would just consider how attractive she finds the man. If she finds him very attractive the likelihood is that lots of other women do too. If lots of other women do too, he’s going to be spoilt for choice. This means it’s very unlikely that he’s going to be looking for a long-term relationship with anyone who falls short of Beauty of the Year and it would be wise to operate on the presumption he is a Player.

    Surely the easiest thing to do if not sure is just to make enquiries (or get someone else to make enquiries) of people who know him, this will give a better idea of his level of commitment than anything else.

    LikeLike


  15. on June 22, 2010 at 12:03 pm dalrock

    @Mr. Marquee

    I’ve never met a chick who didn’t love a player.

    Speaking of attending the wedding of my PUA friend/roommate in college, I vividly recall making two mental notes:

    1) My girlfriend (now my wife) was way hotter than the woman he married. His wife was very pretty, but my date was just smokin in her dress (and she still is)! The look on his face when he greeted us at the door said it all. I also recall the conversation I had with her 6 ft 4 Evangelical Christian/Baptist father the next morning when I finally brought her home.

    2) My wife was the only woman I ever saw who didn’t light up/tingle when this guy walked into the room or paid attention to her. This was a big plus in my mind.

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  16. on June 22, 2010 at 12:06 pm Sidewinder

    I’d like to throw out a question for comments:

    In the course of a pickup, how does one recover from a stupid comment, a failed shit test, or any other display of beta-ness?

    In my experience, in only the rarest conversations do I bat a perfect 1.000, and I can usually always think of a few comments that could have been more clearly and strongly articulated, or a few comments or questions that I should have never said.

    I’m curious if posters have learned techniques to re-establish social dominance within an interaction after an error. For example, let’s say you make a decent opener, a good neg in a cocky/funny way, but then followup with one too many jokes or smart ass comments…how do you get the interaction back on track?

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  17. on June 22, 2010 at 12:06 pm The Specimen

    I have a feeling that this is article is targeted toward ugly women. Right on about how all the characteristics of the player (with the exception of instant declaration of feeling) are pretty much what you want to display to attract women.

    I think showing vulnerability is only for guys that are physically imposing (looks like a pennitentiary shot caller) or come across as a little cocky. Otherwise something like having an interest in anime, sabermetrics, or children’s cartoons, being scared of spiders, or getting misty eyed in sad movies will make you look like a pussy.

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  18. on June 22, 2010 at 12:13 pm The G Manifesto

    “Don’t Lotharios have a reputation for being mammas’ boys?”

    Everyone of my good friends that swoops mass girls loves their Mom. Myself included.

    Hell, I even love their Moms.

    – MPM

    LikeLike


  19. on June 22, 2010 at 12:20 pm Jerry

    The Match.com “advice” actually gives PUAs great cover.

    She isn’t just confusing “insincere men” with “players” but confusing socially inept men (insecure and unable to mingle) with players.

    This fits the pattern of the feminists who run that company.

    There is a mentally disturbed tendency among feminists to rationalize that men who succeed with women most (including those who travel to meet the best)…must therefore be neanderthals or losers with no social graces.

    LikeLike


  20. on June 22, 2010 at 12:24 pm Carl Sagan

    And yet, this will not happen on a large scale. Game will continue to work for studious men with resounding success. Women can talk all they want about being wary of players, but in practice, they are like moths to flame. Just because the playbook has been left in the locker room doesn’t mean it’s worthless.

    Of course, as long as there are women and beta AFC men voicing protest, there will always be the Myth of the Nice Guy sucking a good proportion of men into its vortex. This winnows down the pool for the real players and keeps a good level of cognitive dissonance going in the female brain before and after she’s slept with one.

    This is true.

    Doesn’t matter how much empirical evidence exists for Game, the vast majority of people will find ways to disregard it.

    In a world where some people still believe the Earth is flat, that astrology is legit and homeopathy can cure cancer, it would be absolutely retarded of me to ever think that Game would be uniformly recognized as a valid approach to the mating dance.

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  21. on June 22, 2010 at 12:32 pm Vincent Ignatius

    Like most dating advice by and for women, this is garbage.

    The few bits of good dating advice women receive from each other are likely to go unheeded because they require a level of introspection beyond most women.

    LikeLike


  22. on June 22, 2010 at 12:50 pm Gx1080

    This seem to be a list to smell beta poseurs.

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  23. on June 22, 2010 at 1:02 pm Justin

    Yeah they got it wrong! Its physically abusive guys who are known to have “issues” with mom, not players. The problem with this article is its written by a guy who couldnt get laid even if he paid for it! Hookers would just take his money and laugh at him! The thing thats makes it worse is I can only imagine how many women have read that BS and really thought it was good info!

    LikeLike


  24. on June 22, 2010 at 1:06 pm Capt. Obvious

    “Any smart woman would just consider how attractive she finds the man. If she finds him very attractive the likelihood is that lots of other women do too. If lots of other women do too, he’s going to be spoilt for choice. This means it’s very unlikely that he’s going to be looking for a long-term relationship with anyone who falls short of Beauty of the Year and it would be wise to operate on the presumption he is a Player.

    Surely the easiest thing to do if not sure is just to make enquiries (or get someone else to make enquiries) of people who know him, this will give a better idea of his level of commitment than anything else.”

    This is neurotic advice.

    Do you only date ugly men?

    Do you background check every man you go on a date with?

    Let me guess: you are single.

    LikeLike


  25. on June 22, 2010 at 1:06 pm luvsic

    another skin on the wall

    LikeLike


  26. on June 22, 2010 at 1:07 pm Justin

    Girls not responding to game is like guys not responding to big tits!

    LikeLike


  27. on June 22, 2010 at 1:10 pm Original JB

    It’s amusing to read “the other side of the story”:

    http://yahoo.match.com/magazine/article.aspx?articleid=4815

    Gotta love the author’s conclusion: after describing all the traits of a “female player”, here’s his advice:

    Embarrassing, yeah. A female player’s way of remaining cool, coveted and non-committal can drive a guy crazy. As Jay-Z once said, “Don’t hate the player, hate the game,” but that’s a tall order. My best advice? If you find yourself drawn into the web of one of these women, set your pride aside — and bring your checkbook.

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  28. on June 22, 2010 at 1:25 pm sdaedalus

    Don’t be mean now.

    I wasn’t suggesting pre-date background checks, that would take all the fun out of it.

    Checking up too much on someone raises trust issues and can damage any relationship before it has a chance to start. Checking up too much in an ongoing relationship can destroy it.

    I was just making the point that it is a hell of a sight more effective way of finding out about someone’s likely committment to a relationship than asking them what they think of their mother.

    Thank you for reminding me to point out that checking up comes with consequences attached, though. I have already made this point over on Sofia’s blog.

    Re only dating ugly men, I think this should probably read, only date unattractive men?
    (we all know a player doesn’t have to be handsome to be very attractive to women, and I couched my original comment in terms of attractiveness rather than looks)

    My point is simply that it is a good idea not to get one’s hopes up when faced with a very attractive man. One thing that can be useful (and does not raise the same trust issues as background checks) is simply to meet his friends. You can tell a lot about someone from their friends, and their reaction to a date.

    I do not only date ugly men and have never run a background check on any man I have gone out with (of course, this does not mean they have not run a background check on me, imo men are just as likely to do this as women).

    PS: I am not as far as I know neurotic but I will bear your comment in mind.

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  29. on June 22, 2010 at 1:26 pm Jonathan

    Sigh, if I had Fame/Celebrity I could get all the fruits of Master Game without having bother with all this stuff.

    Roissy, considering the trouble the music and film industries are currently experiencing, with actors proving especially replacable, how much longer will the famous be the most desired males in Western society?

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  30. on June 22, 2010 at 1:31 pm EastPole

    @The Specimen
    “I have a feeling that this is article is targeted toward ugly women. ”

    Of course it is, it’s on a dating website. Hot women don’t need to look online to find men. They are approached all the time.

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  31. on June 22, 2010 at 1:41 pm Michael

    @ Jonathan

    “Roissy, considering the trouble the music and film industries are currently experiencing, with actors proving especially replacable, how much longer will the famous be the most desired males in Western society?”

    Forever. Being desired has nothing to do with fame/celebrity, it has more to do with being the center of attention, of which they will always be. Even if he was dead broke and homeless, if a has-been not-currently-acting James Van der Beek walked into a bar you were at everyone would turn and say “Hey look, it’s James Van der Beek!” That’s why it’s so much easier to get laid on your birthday, or if you’re the best man at a wedding (since the groom is obviously off-limits, the best man becomes #1 eligible male center of attention by default).

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  32. on June 22, 2010 at 1:42 pm Capt. Obvious

    @sdaedalus

    You still gave very bad dating advice, regardless of your backtracking.

    I am surprised that you gave it with such authority.

    Your previous post is a textbook example of Roissy’s Maxim about never trusting a woman’s dating advice.

    LikeLike


  33. on June 22, 2010 at 1:46 pm ryan

    If you are girl and are not a 10 don’t fucking bother posting on here. Post your picture first so everyone knows whether or not to follow your advice.

    LikeLike


  34. on June 22, 2010 at 1:52 pm Rollo Tomassi

    What’s fascinating is how the more a woman attempts to define a ‘player’ the more that guy fits the personality of the Jerk boyfriend she couldn’t get enough of, and the more a guy attempts to define a ‘player’ the more the player fits the personality of the guy who been fucking the women he’d most like to do.

    He’s Bold – Of course he is. To quote Robert Greene, enter into action with boldness. Any mistakes you commit through audacity are easily corrected with more audacity (law 28). However, never appear too perfect; It is smart to occasionally display defects, and admit to harmless vices, in order to deflect envy and appear more human and approachable (law 46).

    He declares his feelings right away – No Player worth his salt even considers this. It’s AFC betas that vomit out their feelings on date #1, a real Player knows the vital usefulness in deliberate ambiguity and stimulating a woman’s imagination.

    He always plans romantic dates – The word “Planning” is not in the Player’s vocabulary. The true Player learns early that genuine romance is incidental, never planned; and even when it is planned, it’s only effective when it seems incidental. The most memorable romantic gestures will be the ones that weren’t intended or you were even aware of. Genuine romance, like genuine desire, cannot be negotiated.

    He has lots of acquaintances, no close friends – Close friends and confidantes are vital to a successful Player. If anything, his attentions become spread too thin amongst them. Dr. Kalish is describing a sociopath; a Player knows the value and utility of dedicated friends.

    He’s a thrill seeker – Of course he is, that’s what makes him exciting. He’s experiential, and this is what makes him dynamic in contrast to mundane men. A guy can come off as a try-hard if he’s going bungee jumping in order to appear more exciting, but a Player has done all this beforehand and knows the experience and enjoys it.

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  35. on June 22, 2010 at 2:11 pm Beppe

    “He declares his feelings right away – No Player worth his salt even considers this. It’s AFC betas that vomit out their feelings on date #1, a real Player knows the vital usefulness in deliberate ambiguity and stimulating a woman’s imagination.”

    I thought that PUAs always made their sexual intentions openly, quickly and even brashly?

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  36. on June 22, 2010 at 2:21 pm Gorbachev

    So much for arming women.

    If Match.com is giving this kind of advice to women, then my job just got a helluvalot easier. Wow.

    Dumbest advice ever.

    People are so willfully blind.

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  37. on June 22, 2010 at 2:24 pm Capt. Obvious

    This post should have been about “Staying Away From Suspicious women.”

    Come on, guys, we are the ones who do the approaches.

    If a woman comes off as too suspicious, you should move on to the another one. No point in even considering dating suspicious women, unless your whole point is to fuck with them by “pumping and dumping” them.

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  38. on June 22, 2010 at 2:28 pm sdaedalus

    @Cap’n Obvious
    You still gave very bad dating advice, regardless of your backtracking.

    Bad from whose point of view? The Player (because this is really the only way in which an expert Player can be sussed) or the Playee? Tell me why? I am interested in getting your opinion.

    I am surprised that you gave it with such authority.

    Well I am a little surprised that you diagnosed me as neurotic with such authority too, Freud Junior, but I’ll let that pass.

    Your previous post is a textbook example of Roissy’s Maxim about never trusting a woman’s dating advice

    My previous post suggested that the only conclusive way to find out if someone was a player or not was to make enquiries of people who knew him.

    To the extent that this was advice at all (I am here to learn not to advise) it was advice directed at women, not men. Why on earth would you guys care about any dating advice given by a woman, to other women? Unless of course you are a woman yourself, in which case tell me why you think this is bad advice (I do accept the trust issue qualification above)

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  39. on June 22, 2010 at 2:41 pm Nicole

    Ryan, just…fuck you.

    SDaedalus is kind of half right, just suffering from the same perception issues that plague many women looking for a decent guy. That is labelling every guy with options a player, and every guy who fails you a jerk.

    It is true that a guy with options is going to try to select what he views as the best among them. That doesn’t make him a player. It might make him stupid, depending on what he’s basing his standards on, but it doesn’t make him a player.

    A guy being higher status or in a different socioeconomically based clique, or of a different ethnicity that thinks they’re better as individuals because they ride the coattails of their historical best, means that if you’re not in his “expected” list, he won’t be able to recognize your femininity. Higher status guys these days are way too feminized, and are actually concerned about a woman’s social status. The only thing that can bridge the gap is socially acceptable beauty. If you’re a blonde Romani, you’ll have a better shot at having a recognizeable relationship with a European guy than a girl who is dark complexiones with dark hair…not always, but your chances will be better.

    So if a guy like that likes you, the best thing you can do for yourself and for him is let you admire him from afar. Let him operate as a social proof and sentimentally invested male friend who will help you filter guys who are actually in your league.

    It’s not that they have bad intentions. It’s that they’re overly entitled and feminist, which isn’t really a guy’s fault. He’s a product of his environment and upbringing. He’s not going to have the same protective feelings towards you that he would for a woman whose femininity he recognized.

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  40. on June 22, 2010 at 2:53 pm sdaedalus

    SDaedalus is kind of half right, just suffering from the same perception issues that plague many women looking for a decent guy. That is labelling every guy with options a player, and every guy who fails you a jerk.

    It is true that a guy with options is going to try to select what he views as the best among them. That doesn’t make him a player. It might make him stupid, depending on what he’s basing his standards on, but it doesn’t make him a player.

    I do take your point, Nicole, there are I am sure some very attractive guys out there looking for long term commitment.
    Perhaps my view of devastatingly attractive men has become a little cynical from reading this blog. It doesn’t help, either, that if I were a man, I would probably be tempted to become player myself.

    I did say “presumption” of playerdom, presumptions can of course be rebutted. I just think it’s a better starting point than a belief that one is a special little snowflake capable of holding a high status man for any length of time.

    Re. jerk issue, I’m not sure where this came across in my comment, please explain?

    Btw a lot of Northern European guys love exotic coloring in women.

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  41. on June 22, 2010 at 2:54 pm greatbooksformen

    lozlzzlozlzozlzlzlzl

    be bold walk up to her and say “i wanna butthex u and tape it secretly without your contenn th so that the weekly standard will call me a six foor tall butthexual hero you’;re hot lzozlzlzlz”

    she smiles and says,

    “O M F G!!! you’re GBFM!! from that blog!””

    “yah!” i say “den you know dat i don’t butthex nor tape it secretl;y lzozlzlzoz”

    “what does gbfm stand 4” she asks batting her eyelashes

    “it stands for duh Great Boobs 4 Me! & lotsa cocka for da pretty ladies.” lozlzlz

    “you;re so funny.”

    “let’s go back 2 da champagne room though remember there is no butthex in the schampagne room so i hope you had ur anus pre-servcied by a neocon butthexual hero.”

    she takes me by the hand and we head out lzolzlzlzlz

    who needs games whansyas gotss grea t books?

    LikeLike


  42. on June 22, 2010 at 2:57 pm sdaedalus

    Btw a lot of Northern European guys love exotic coloring in women.

    Nicole, a good example of this would be Boris Becker, but lots of my guy friends are similar.

    LikeLike


  43. on June 22, 2010 at 3:05 pm The Editor

    He said: “In the course of a pickup, how does one recover from a stupid comment, a failed shit test, or any other display of beta-ness”?…

    to Sidewinder: you move on. Forget her and onto the next one. It is like re making the moment, it is nearly impossible?

    Anyways….Excellent post. Match.com and those police staters dating websites are full of beta and gamma/nice boy material. The type who actually markets himself as “so nice, good boy, but not being dated”. Thinking this is the right way to find a woman for a one nighter or a LTR. Pathetic and…

    Revolting. There are no nice boy-good boys. You wanna market yourself to me, just be yourself and not too much of care-bear.

    Again with these details. I really liked R/C making the issue of men who try too hard. Recalling details, over doing a nice deed, over doing compliments, etc…It is creepy! lp999

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  44. on June 22, 2010 at 3:07 pm sdaedalus

    Ahem. It seems I did not think it all up on my own.

    See corollary to Roissy Maxim #666: Treat woman like Soviet Russia — Trust but verify.

    Although I agree that most of the maxims are gender specific, I think this one could just as easily be addressed to women as to men.

    This might explain why some men (ahem, Maurice) have the irresistible impulse to google women they meet even when they say (unprompted) that they are not going to do so.

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  45. on June 22, 2010 at 3:18 pm tom

    there are four kinds of guys :

    low status beta : a guy who suck at everything in life , cant get girls , doesnt have career , live in parent’s basement

    high status beta : a guy who have great career , got his own house / apartment , might be able to run a company but he cant get girls .

    low status alpha : or generally known as the nomadic alpha , a guy who might live in his parent ‘s basement , doesnt have a career , maybe he has a band or w/e , but can just pop out of the house and get laid regularly

    high status alpha : a guy who is successful in life , great career , high social status , and also has great skill with women .

    if you look for an attractive guy who is into commitment , you are probably looking at high status beta , and he would probably fuck it up anyways, and so you will end up with the alpha dudes .

    alpha males doesnt like commitment

    and also if you are interacting with the people in this board , we all know what kind of guy you are attracted too , haha

    LikeLike


  46. on June 22, 2010 at 3:18 pm Sidewinder

    @ Editor,

    Clearly it’s not impossible to recover after a verbal error. I’ve gotten laid enough times while saying enough stupid things along the way that there had to have been “alpha-redeeming” qualities that saved me. Maybe girls don’t listen to the verbal as much as they perceive the non-verbal? Maybe they are too in their own heads and anxieties to pay close enough attention to a few screw ups here and there? I’m definitely not good-looking enough to have been saved by my looks.

    I think there is definitely a point where you have to cut and run, but I have to think that at least 98% of successful pickups contained one error along the way. Maybe girls are somewhat forgiving of a few misplaced comments? My knee-jerk reaction would be to move the conversation in a total 180 by asking the girl a question and keeping my mouth shut.

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  47. on June 22, 2010 at 3:22 pm dalrock

    If you are girl and are not a 10 don’t fucking bother posting on here. Post your picture first so everyone knows whether or not to follow your advice.

    Straight up! If you don’t look like this, we don’t want your dating advice. Everyone knows hot women know how men can attract women.

    LikeLike


  48. on June 22, 2010 at 3:32 pm whiskey

    Nicole — Colin Farrell, and particularly Robert DeNiro, have it bad for Black and particularly VERY Black girls/women.

    In the main, attractiveness will work for a woman of any race. All a man wants to know “is she hot” and that question is answered in seconds. Other factors, social acceptability, compatibility, interests, etc. may come into play for a LTR, but hotness has its own unique language.

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  49. on June 22, 2010 at 3:35 pm tom

    @Sidewinder

    the idea that every pick up should be all smooth and go nicely will eventually come back and bite you in the ass .

    some pick ups are like that but the majority are not .

    as my friend Tim always say ” how successful a man at this is defined by how many akward conversations he is willing to have ”

    after some approaches you might feel like the king , but after some other approaches you might feel like shit . and this happen a lot to the most experienced guys , simply because you cant predict human ‘s behaviors .

    I have got girls slapped me in the face , swore at me , told me to fuck off , pour drink on my head ….. etc … and out of all these cases i got laid

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  50. on June 22, 2010 at 3:41 pm sdaedalus

    @Tom
    if you look for an attractive guy who is into commitment , you are probably looking at high status beta , and he would probably fuck it up anyways, and so you will end up with the alpha dudes .

    alpha males doesnt like commitment

    This is my point. In my original comment I did say “very attractive” with the emphasis on “very”, which tends to be alpha. And as you say, commitment & alpha males don’t go together, it is just common sense.

    and also if you are interacting with the people in this board , we all know what kind of guy you are attracted too , haha

    Far be it from me to deny the devastating appeal of the alpha male, but as you’ve pointed out they are not good bets from point of view of a decent long-term relationship, that is the difficulty. I think quite a few women know this instinctively but try to convince themselves of the contrary, partly I think for deniability purposes so that they can rationalise that there is more than just sex involved.

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  51. on June 22, 2010 at 3:43 pm Silver Fox

    I am glad you have finally focused on Match.com

    I have posted randomly about my experience, since joining in April.

    Conclusion:

    Match is the single largest source of live young pussy on earth (not POF, craigs, OKCp, etc.). If you r practicing PUA, you will not get any better audience, or get laid faster.

    Main reason is its a numbers game where u can track stats, and cut/paste/bang. I avg. 30 outbound emails/day and running 350 winks mo. Most betas send out 1-3 email/day, 30-60 winks a month and quit.

    10 New babes join per day, and I avg. 3 new emails inbound per day…10% hit rate (some days 12, some 2). Sunday and Monday nite the site lites up, and they realize they had crappy weekends again; or were ho’s and need to find a nice guy before 29.

    I have had 20 dates since joining in April…most women tell me they had 1-3/mo. I am 42, 5’10”, trim, solid career/$, not American.

    Out of the 20, sexual contact with 6:

    -Fucked two; one was 27, solid 8; one was late 30s ex b-model, 8.5 (hot is hot)
    -Got hand job & gave cum-facial on first date to 2…hey i still have ejac. thrust!; one 7, one 7.5, both <26, slept over.
    -Finger fucked 2 on first date; 7s; both < 27

    Bad news:

    33% mis represent themselves; ie, older, fatter, etc
    33% r just ho's; dinner, drink, or real ho's
    20% will never call u back or flake; dick collectors
    10% are nice, normal 7s w a flaw: huge ass, nose, bad hair, broken english, etc
    3% are GF/Wife ….I settled on one, she is a 9, 26

    $ News;

    Even if you limit your budget to $50/date, you will blow $1000 like I did; many were in budget, some were 2,$5 beers or coffee all in; others abused me for $75 drinks & never called (yes they were 22-25, hot).

    Botton line; the bar/PUA scene is not going to give you 20 women in 2 months. Bottle service at $500-1000 guranteed wont produce 10% of this. Ive been PUA in NYC for 20yrs and never hit those #'s.

    I laser focus on Slender, 20-29, white, no kids, no marriage and drill down on this population daily. I sometimes troll the "Athletic & Toned" or "Average" for babes..but they r usualy big boned or just fat.

    Key is to have a good photo; (i took 100 before i got right angle); some Alpha shots: ie, next to Porsche (go to a dealer, if u have to); Motorcycle; or Boat; and MUST have vacation pics (NOT Vegas); beach scene in Cabo, Caribe or EU.

    Bottom line for $1.50/day you cant spend your $ better for pussy.

    Some dude laughed my post off last time; yes, blowing 4 loads on 7.5-9s, 20 somethings was the best revenge!

    Good Luck!

    ~ a date with Skinny 27 russian at 5pm just txted.

    LikeLike


  52. on June 22, 2010 at 3:57 pm j r

    if you want to see the difference between the type of BS fake player described in that article and a man with real game, look no further than these videos:

    LikeLike


  53. on June 22, 2010 at 4:00 pm Gorbachev

    @
    sdaedalus


    Far be it from me to deny the devastating appeal of the alpha male, but as you’ve pointed out they are not good bets from point of view of a decent long-term relationship, that is the difficulty. I think quite a few women know this instinctively but try to convince themselves of the contrary, partly I think for deniability purposes so that they can rationalise that there is more than just sex involved.

    Women pay lip service to the idea that they should be good girls, and make excuses for chasing after sexual attraction.

    But the truth is – they’re the same as men; they want the sex.

    More than just sex is almost always a rationalization. When it’s not, when there really is more than just sex, it’s very obvious, and there’s no reason to doubt it.

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  54. on June 22, 2010 at 4:05 pm OI

    @SilverFox I’ve contemplated starting a blog similar to this one focused online dating, mostly because what you say has a lot of truth. I’ve been on OKcupid several months (started when I moved to a new city and didn’t know anyone) and also report good results, though not quite as good as yours.

    Unless i’m missing something, online dating kills the bar in terms of time/cost efficiency and just overall comfort. the main difference is obvious: i can get a date while writing/playing the guitar/listening to music/drinking wine/watching tv or any number of activities i enjoy rather than spending 1. time getting ready for the bar 2. time at the bar 3. money buying drinks. not to mention the greater pain of rejection. on okc i can line up five dates after ~two total hours of typing.

    I don’t even cut-and-paste. I’m a real savvy writer and girls love it. just being able to type a witty, interesting paragraph puts you above 95% of guys on any dating site. some of the more lucid commenters here should definitely consider it. i mean, you’re already on a fucking computer, why not practice what you preach?

    it works so well it’s kind of addictive. this method must be tempered with meeting girls thru bars and other social avenues. eggs in one basket and so on.

    i predict online game as the next evolution of game. roissy’s criticism of online dating is fading as it becomes a more relevant and pervasive way for people to meet. that’s just my .02$

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  55. on June 22, 2010 at 4:08 pm Johnny Gutts

    KUATO IS MY WINGMAN

    LikeLike


  56. on June 22, 2010 at 4:10 pm Silver Fox

    The Dude above is probably from some South East Asia, Middle Eastern or Latin land were masculinity is not bred/diluted down.

    Women want that shit; most guys think the all american/surfer dudes rule…they r mostly home wanking

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  57. on June 22, 2010 at 4:10 pm Willy Wonka

    This advice is stupid. You broke down pretty solidly Roissy.

    I think the funniest part is that she has “he can mingle” on the niceguy list and “he declares his feelings right away” on the player list…. don’t know how they fucked those two up.

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  58. on June 22, 2010 at 4:18 pm The Truth

    Chinese betas dealing with hypergamous females:

    http://www.latimes.com/business/realestate/la-fi-china-bachelor-20100621,0,6167359.story

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  59. on June 22, 2010 at 4:19 pm anon

    Silver Fox, the force seems strong with you. How do you deal with age difference issue. It seems that you are below the ideal 6 foot tall deal breaking line and you are 42. Is there resistance? I assume the girls who say no older than 32 for example are just screening out the guys who have been ground down by life and are unpresentable.

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  60. on June 22, 2010 at 4:24 pm johnny five

    I wouldn’t put much date effort into a chick I haven’t banged yet.

    dates shouldn’t ever require “effort”. if a date requires effort, that indicates that you have all three of the following:
    (a) sincere desire for the girl
    (b) insufficient insight into the girl’s mind
    (c) insufficient mastery to bend her will to your own passions

    all you need for dates to stop requiring “effort”, forever, is to cure (b), (c), or both. (you could also cure (a), but then what would be the point?)

    as for fixing (b), this is almost impossibly easy, unless you are so autistic that the girl has to tell you her interests explicitly.
    basically, the principle is that girls don’t normally initiate small talk, so, if a girl brings up ANY topic on her own (i.e., not just responding to you), even in passing, you’ve discovered an interest of hers.
    girls being what they are, most such topics will revolve around chick crack, like people and relationships, but they will occasionally drop some nuggets.
    for instance, if you’re downtown and she comments on the beauty of some building, then she has at least some appreciation for architecture. so plan a “date” in which, say, you meet on a hill or at a top-floor cafe overlooking the city, have her pick out her three favorite buildings, and then go “explore” them.
    etc.
    not difficult.

    as for fixing (c), the best test of your mastery over women is whether you can take them to do things in which they have no intrinsic interest, and keep them enthralled.
    can you keep a woman hanging onto your every word as, say, you run routine errands?
    can you mesmerize her with the pure strength of your words while talking about subjects she really doesn’t care about?

    no effort required, nor should any effort ever be required.

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  61. on June 22, 2010 at 4:27 pm Sam Spade

    “I thought that PUAs always made their sexual intentions openly, quickly and even brashly?”

    They do, but this is different from a guy “declaring his feelings right away.”

    A player flirts, engages in sexual innuendo, and is not afraid of physical contact when he first meets a woman that attracts him. Through his actions, he lets her know that he wants his penis in her vagina as soon as possible.

    A chump exposes his “feelings” early, in a disingenuous attempt to get her to like him. This includes telling her how much he likes/loves her, how special she is, buying her flowers/gifts, or unlocking all of his private thoughts and emotions on her. Often this is coupled with a supposed diminished interest in her sexually, because he fears she will reject him if she knows he wants to bang her.

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  62. on June 22, 2010 at 4:29 pm OI

    @johnny five, to piggyback on that idea and my own post i just wrote, another great thing about online dating is it makes b) even easier. all you have to do is read her profile.

    LikeLike


  63. on June 22, 2010 at 4:51 pm Nicole

    SDaedalus, the every guy failing you being a jerk thing is just something I threw in about the presumption of ill intent package.

    Most high status or high “caste” guys aren’t as malicious as they are stupid. Their destiny is to marry a whore or a trophy. If you’re neither, then be flattered, but don’t get too deep.

    …but do be flattered, especially if the attraction was on sight. In another time and place, you might have been one of the ones the raiding warlord didn’t slaughter or allow the soldiers to gang rape.

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  64. on June 22, 2010 at 4:52 pm tom

    @ silver fox .

    42 yo

    wow what the hell is my dad ‘s golf buddy doing here ….

    you guys are so damn old ><

    LikeLike


  65. on June 22, 2010 at 4:58 pm schwanson

    This seems like the advice of a woman branded by the fiery charm of an alpha. And it’s designed to serve women who’ve realized their clock is ticking, and are looking to settle with a provider.

    None of this changes what women are natively attracted to. Dominance. I’m going to ignore this.

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  66. on June 22, 2010 at 4:59 pm Jonathan

    Michael: Being desired has nothing to do with fame/celebrity, it has more to do with being the center of attention, of which they will always be.

    ———————–

    But my point is: If the Film and Music industries continue to decline, won’t actors and the such become less and less the centre of attention?

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  67. on June 22, 2010 at 5:00 pm Cannon's Canon

    can you mesmerize her with the pure strength of your words while talking about subjects she really doesn’t care about, such as fiat bubbles that push debt downward and wealth upward among the classes, while neocons like charlotte allen glorify tucker max, whose name rhymes with goldman sachs, whose trading desk won 45 days in a row last quarter?

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  68. on June 22, 2010 at 5:01 pm Gorbachev

    @Nicole
    Most high status or high “caste” guys aren’t as malicious as they are stupid. Their destiny is to marry a whore or a trophy. If you’re neither, then be flattered, but don’t get too deep.…but do be flattered, especially if the attraction was on sight. In another time and place, you might have been one of the ones the raiding warlord didn’t slaughter or allow the soldiers to gang rape.

    Wow. You really have bitterness at the “Betters”.

    If it makes you feel better to believe this about “High status” men, then feel free.

    But in case you ever get moments of clarity, you might want to consider this:

    You’re wrong. Usually, if these men marry, they marry women of exceptional quality. Not usually whores.

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  69. on June 22, 2010 at 5:02 pm sdaedalus

    Thanks Nicole.

    I don’t really presume ill intent as such even on the part of a player, the presumption really is of an intent which does not correspond, I am not making any judgments here, I am sure that I would not be any different in their position.

    Fortunately we do not live in an era of raiding warlords, so I do not have to worry about being sufficiently attractive to avoid slaughter, it must have been very annoying, all those interruptions to daily life back in the day.

    I would suspect avoiding gang rape was based on luck rather than attractiveness though, as far as I am aware there was no ritual rounding up of women for inspection pre-gang rape on raiding warlord excursions, it was just a spur of the moment thing, I doubt the warlord went to the trouble of rating women on the 1-10 scale.

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  70. on June 22, 2010 at 5:03 pm J

    @Mr. Marquee

    “I’ve never met a chick who didn’t love a player”

    You all can tell me I’m full of shit, but I’ve never loved a player.

    LikeLike


  71. on June 22, 2010 at 5:07 pm J

    @ Cannon

    ‘can you mesmerize her with the pure strength of your words while talking about subjects she really doesn’t care about,”
    “such as fiat bubbles that push debt downward and wealth upward among the classes, while neocons like charlotte allen glorify tucker max, whose name rhymes with goldman sachs, whose trading desk won 45 days in a row last quarter?”

    Aw,c’mon, what woman doesn’t tingle for that? Just the mention of fiat dollars alone has me spraying on perfume in anticipation of my husband coming home.

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  72. on June 22, 2010 at 5:27 pm J

    @Silver Fox

    “The Dude above is probably from some South East Asia, Middle Eastern or Latin land were masculinity is not bred/diluted down.’

    He looks/acts like a douchebag–like he has a lot of surface, phony charm and nothing substantial to back it up.

    LikeLike


  73. on June 22, 2010 at 6:29 pm ryan

    nicole: stop fucking posting on here. What guy in their right mind wants to hear what a 50 year old, obese black woman thinks? I would rather ask dating advice from a bum soiling himself on the streets. You don’t know anything besides how to stuff your fat face with cheeseburgers and candy bars.

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  74. on June 22, 2010 at 6:37 pm Name

    “You all can tell me I’m full of shit, but I’ve never loved a player.”

    F’in agreed. Seriously. I’m pretty sure my demeanor and conversational tone is nearly identical for players and omegas. It could be because I’m very introverted. The only difference is when conversing with players, there’s a higher likelihood I might smile. Definitely not a given though. But it takes a whole lot for me to smile. I actually find womanizers repulsive and would and never have spread any body part for them.

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  75. on June 22, 2010 at 6:38 pm Capt. Obvious

    @Silver Fox

    Why do you always assume most people here are in their 40’s like you?

    If you want to date girls in the 21-24 year range, the local bars and clubs in most major cities are better hunting grounds than Match.com.

    Match.com seems to be for girls in the 25+ category. I done searches, and was not impressed.

    LikeLike


  76. on June 22, 2010 at 6:39 pm Gorbachev

    @Name

    If I had a dollar for every woman who claimed to be immune to game, …

    LikeLike


  77. on June 22, 2010 at 6:39 pm Lily

    http://www.girlsaskguys.com/Articles/Behavior/10-signs-hes-a-player.html

    LikeLike


  78. on June 22, 2010 at 6:40 pm Lily

    The questions and answers section on that website is hysterical.

    LikeLike


  79. on June 22, 2010 at 6:45 pm Badger Nation

    Part I:

    Girls love the alpha

    http://content.usatoday.com/communities/gameon/post/2010/05/natalie-gulbis-roethlisberger-is-a-great-guy/1?csp=outbrain&csp=obnetwork

    “Pittsburgh Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger has a true pal in LPGA star and ex-girlfriend Natalie Gulbis.

    The two played a round this week at Laurel Valley Country Club in Pennsylvania.

    Gulbis, who called the QB “a great guy” said she will root for the quarterback who was suspended for six games after being accused of, but not charged with, sexual assault.

    “… I’ve known him for four years. He has always been fantastic to me, and we’ve been friends since before he even started playing for the Steelers,” said Gulbis.”

    I don’t think Ben Roethlisberger raped anybody, but regardless of that this is more proof that women will defend the alpha in public no matter how much he has humiliated himself.

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  80. on June 22, 2010 at 6:53 pm Badger Nation

    Part II:

    In which I defend Dr Phil

    Apparently Savoy went on Dr Phil a while back and they did some hidden camera work with Savoy’s students, then brought the chicks the guys picked up back on the show.

    The episode is titled “women beware,” but it’s a pretty fair segment. The girls actually talked about how they enjoyed not being sucked up to (!)

    A hot chick with a bitch face in the audience criticized the PUAs with a typical refrain: “It’s not NATURAL because it didn’t come from THEM, somebody taught them how to do that.”

    Dr Phil ripped into her, asking if women come up with their own makeup and fashion skills or if somebody taught them that too. This followed up an early riff of his where he asked the girls how much time they spent getting ready to go out and whether that constituted an authentic presentation.

    Dr Phil is usually predictably misandrist, but my opinion has changed a bit…I wonder if he isn’t just a garden variety male-on-male bully, who hates betas as much as women do and takes every opportunity to rip betas down. When faced with rising alphas like these PUAs in training, he defended them in front of a hostile audience.

    LikeLike


  81. on June 22, 2010 at 6:54 pm Schonheitsgalerie 2: The Unmasked Beauties « Sibling of Daedalus

    […] Born in Ireland, brought up in India, die fasche Lola took to the stage after her hasty first marriage ended.  Claiming to be Spanish, her specialty was the erotic dance “The Tarantula”.   Meanwhile, she supplemented her stage income with extra-curricular activities.  The Tsar of Russia paid a large sum of rubles for one night: Dumas, de Balzac and Liszt were among her conquests.   She beat Liszt with a hairbrush; other lovers were horsewhipped, shot at with pistols while escaping with their trousers down and, on another occasion, thrown into a river to drown.  After her show in Munich was cancelled, Lola stormed Ludwig’s palace, and in a fit of rage, cut open the bodice of her dress with scissors to display her bare breasts (apparently her greatest beauty).  The inevitable happened and she was installed as maitresse en titre until the Munich burghers got fed up and threw her out.  Subsequently she wrote her memoirs, available here, and travelled round the world giving beauty advice.  Some of you have expressed the view that her portrait above makes her ugly, she agreed, or at least felt it didn’t do her justice.  A subsequent portrait was painted, here.   For photos of Lola in real life, see here, here and here, the question must be asked: would she be good-looking enough for her views on game to be taken seriously over at Citizen Renegade?  […]

    LikeLike


  82. on June 22, 2010 at 6:57 pm Lily

    J, same here, couple of (natural) alphas but certainly no player types for love. to be honest, i didn’t really know much about them till a year or two ago.

    i suppose when i was dating it was in college type or fairly small environs so you know which guys slept around and i kept away from them.

    now i think player types can know in a social circle, but a lot of them have quite deep personality issues.

    LikeLike


  83. on June 22, 2010 at 6:57 pm SomeGuy

    Silver Fox:

    I am glad you have finally focused on Match.com

    I have posted randomly about my experience, since joining in April.

    Conclusion:

    Match is the single largest source of live young pussy on earth (not POF, craigs, OKCp, etc.). If you r practicing PUA, you will not get any better audience, or get laid faster.

    Main reason is its a numbers game where u can track stats, and cut/paste/bang. I avg. 30 outbound emails/day and running 350 winks mo. Most betas send out 1-3 email/day, 30-60 winks a month and quit.

    10 New babes join per day, and I avg. 3 new emails inbound per day…10% hit rate (some days 12, some 2). Sunday and Monday nite the site lites up, and they realize they had crappy weekends again; or were ho’s and need to find a nice guy before 29.

    I have had 20 dates since joining in April…most women tell me they had 1-3/mo. I am 42, 5’10”, trim, solid career/$, not American.

    Out of the 20, sexual contact with 6:

    -Fucked two; one was 27, solid 8; one was late 30s ex b-model, 8.5 (hot is hot)
    -Got hand job & gave cum-facial on first date to 2…hey i still have ejac. thrust!; one 7, one 7.5, both <26, slept over.
    -Finger fucked 2 on first date; 7s; both < 27

    Bad news:

    33% mis represent themselves; ie, older, fatter, etc
    33% r just ho's; dinner, drink, or real ho's
    20% will never call u back or flake; dick collectors
    10% are nice, normal 7s w a flaw: huge ass, nose, bad hair, broken english, etc
    3% are GF/Wife ….I settled on one, she is a 9, 26

    $ News;

    Even if you limit your budget to $50/date, you will blow $1000 like I did; many were in budget, some were 2,$5 beers or coffee all in; others abused me for $75 drinks & never called (yes they were 22-25, hot).

    Botton line; the bar/PUA scene is not going to give you 20 women in 2 months. Bottle service at $500-1000 guranteed wont produce 10% of this. Ive been PUA in NYC for 20yrs and never hit those #'s.

    I laser focus on Slender, 20-29, white, no kids, no marriage and drill down on this population daily. I sometimes troll the "Athletic & Toned" or "Average" for babes..but they r usualy big boned or just fat.

    Key is to have a good photo; (i took 100 before i got right angle); some Alpha shots: ie, next to Porsche (go to a dealer, if u have to); Motorcycle; or Boat; and MUST have vacation pics (NOT Vegas); beach scene in Cabo, Caribe or EU.

    Bottom line for $1.50/day you cant spend your $ better for pussy.

    Some dude laughed my post off last time; yes, blowing 4 loads on 7.5-9s, 20 somethings was the best revenge!

    Good Luck!

    ~ a date with Skinny 27 russian at 5pm just txted.

    While I have no doubt you spent less money than even most PUAs… much less normal guys….

    Wouldn’t prostitutes be cheaper?

    LikeLike


  84. on June 22, 2010 at 7:01 pm SomeGuy

    The Editor(another Crazy Bitch):

    Revolting. There are no nice boy-good boys. You wanna market yourself to me, just be yourself and not too much of care-bear.

    Just-Be-Yourself…. tell me Editor, do you wear makeup?

    LikeLike


  85. on June 22, 2010 at 7:11 pm Anonymous

    @Name

    That’s pretty interesting. I also react to players with the same contempt that one might reserve for omegas–although with age I’ve become kinder to omegas. And, I am also an introvert. I’m a Meyers-Briggs INTP.

    LikeLike


  86. on June 22, 2010 at 7:11 pm Original JB

    Is there such a thing as a Don’t-Care-Bear?

    LikeLike


  87. on June 22, 2010 at 7:15 pm J

    @Lily

    Yeah, what the hell is the attraction?

    @Name

    The above anonymous comment addressed to you was from me. Sorry.

    LikeLike


  88. on June 22, 2010 at 7:16 pm Obstinance Works

    KK, Van der Sloot is a dead man. Get your head out of your ass.

    LikeLike


  89. on June 22, 2010 at 8:27 pm Triple H

    Good job Silver Fox, you spent $1,000 and paid a monthly fee to have sex a couple of times and finger fuck some skanks. Let me know when your e-book comes out.

    LikeLike


  90. on June 22, 2010 at 8:31 pm Rivelino

    ***********

    Sidewinder

    I’d like to throw out a question for comments:

    In the course of a pickup, how does one recover from a stupid comment, a failed shit test, or any other display of beta-ness?

    In my experience, in only the rarest conversations do I bat a perfect 1.000, and I can usually always think of a few comments that could have been more clearly and strongly articulated, or a few comments or questions that I should have never said.

    I’m curious if posters have learned techniques to re-establish social dominance within an interaction after an error. For example, let’s say you make a decent opener, a good neg in a cocky/funny way, but then followup with one too many jokes or smart ass comments…how do you get the interaction back on track?

    ***********

    I think Roissy needs to start a forum. I have a day job, so it is hard for me to check his blog during the day. When I check it at night, a new post often has over 100 comments. Sometimes if I am still at work I will print them out, just to read them, because there are always some fantastic topics and tips. Without printing, and even with printing, it is hard to keep up.

    Sidewinder, excellent question. I still need to scroll down and see what else other people replied. Personally, I would say the most important thing is to maintain frame control. Don’t admit the mistake, or stumble, and definitely don’t apologize, just keep on going, moving forward.

    I have had some corny things come out of my mouth. I just ignore what I said, brush it off, and full steam ahead.

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  91. on June 22, 2010 at 9:22 pm Original JB

    “KK, Van der Sloot is a dead man. Get your head out of your ass.”

    Pfft…Corpse Game!

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  92. on June 22, 2010 at 9:35 pm Nicole

    Gorbachev, it’s about higher status than the woman who needs to filter, not about high status in general. Sometimes the “status” is just being of a certain ethnicity.

    People who think they are better than me are going to harm me if they have the chance. Intentionally or unintentionally, it’s going to happen because they don’t understand that I am a human being with feelings.

    Those kinds of people would kill me if it wouldn’t land them in jail. Why exactly should I be having sex with them?

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  93. on June 22, 2010 at 9:38 pm Dale

    I’m not sure how a woman could cjeck up on a man’s willingness to committ. I know several of the women I dated before I married would have told you I was unwilling to commit, even though I proposed repeatedly. He’s married is about the only thing you could hear (about all but complete betas), but if he’d cheat on her, why not on you? So you seem to be limited towidowers.

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  94. on June 22, 2010 at 9:40 pm J

    @ SDaed

    “For photos of Lola in real life, see here, here and here, the question must be asked: would she be good-looking enough for her views on game to be taken seriously over at Citizen Renegade? […]”

    LOL

    LikeLike


  95. on June 22, 2010 at 9:40 pm Nicole

    SDaedalus, we may not live in areas with warlords, but wars and all sorts of violence still happens. To be a woman who, on sight, at least some men find worth preserving, is a good thing.

    One can also consider one’s self a kind of beacon of light. After they’ve married a hoe or a trophy, and she’s left and taken half, or stopped having sex with him, or is otherwise making his life miserable, you will live in his memories. He just might raise his son to be less of a pussy.

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  96. on June 22, 2010 at 9:42 pm Name

    “That’s pretty interesting. I also react to players with the same contempt that one might reserve for omegas–although with age I’ve become kinder to omegas. And, I am also an introvert. I’m a Meyers-Briggs INTP.”

    I’m INTJ. Very strong on the I (with mild social anxiety) and T, moderate-to-strong on the T, and closer to center on J.

    I’m “kinder” (or rather more talkative) to omegas with age as well. But I tend to be quiet overall. Certainly, I can enjoy conversations with player-types because if they’re skilled at putting others at ease, then that’s pretty welcomed cause of the Introv. for me. But as far as what they represent, I find it repulsive (i.e. no tingles). I think I’m pretty good at sniffing out anyone who is not looking for an LTR.

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  97. on June 22, 2010 at 9:47 pm Name

    J:

    Gotcha. I just read that you wrote the Anonymous comment. Yeah, I’m thinking game should be tailored to personality (although it probably is subconsciously). Probably a bit different gaming an INTJ vs. ESFP. Of course, INTJs are probably rarely gamed anyway. Because hardly anyone wants us!

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  98. on June 22, 2010 at 9:50 pm J

    @ Nicole:

    “stop fucking posting on here. What guy in their right mind wants to hear what a 50 year old, obese black woman thinks?”

    Yeah, Nicole, don’t you know that being any one of those things disqualifies you from having an opinion? But all four? Why, you should be a jibbering idiot at that rate.

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  99. on June 22, 2010 at 10:30 pm Nicole

    J, he’s kind of right. Very few guys here, if any, *want* to hear what I have to say. They only care what hot girls want, and how to be that. They don’t want to think about the fact that hot girls get old, and I’m an unpleasant reminder of that fact.

    …and probably also the fact that when we look back on our lives, most of us who weren’t the socially convenient kind of hot, are all too aware that guys, at least since the 70’s, do care about social status a bit too much. They make our lives utterly miserable until college, and then they want to “experiment” with us. Then they go on to marry whores or harpies, or dump us for them, thinking they can do better, and that is somehow our fault for not looking perfect enough.

    It wouldn’t occur to them that the television is wrong, and that they’re better off keeping the pretty girl they have or have access to, instead of chasing the unicorn. They don’t want to hear that.

    I bet there’s some okay but cleans up well girl out there right now who Ryan is ignoring, trying to get to the unicorn. He probably even picks on a few of them to make sure that they understand how worthless they are by popular standards.

    It’s funny how things work out in the long run.

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  100. on June 22, 2010 at 10:41 pm Sniper

    On the mother bit, maybe I’m just young, but it’s normal for people to talk about their relationships with their parents pretty early on in friendships and whatnot.

    But overall, that advice could have been better. It’s not what I would consider the essential “warning signs” of dating assholes. I was actually thinking of writing my own counter-PUA/relationship advice blog for women, but knowing some of the insane readers here, I would probably be tracked down and killed for educating the otherwise naive pussy collective.

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  101. on June 22, 2010 at 10:43 pm julian

    I definitely agree that a Roissy forum would be fantastic. Specific subjects could be expanded on and unpacked in more minute detail, from the concrete dynamics of pick up and ltr to culture and politics. The only reason I even check this site is due to the high quality of comments which stems from a reader base that is smart. Have you ever browsed a typical pua forum ? Terrible.

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  102. on June 22, 2010 at 11:17 pm J

    @ Name

    “I’m INTJ.” So’s my husband.

    “Very strong on the I (with mild social anxiety)”

    That’s rough. I’ve become more extroverted. Having kids really drove me into community involvements, which was good for me.

    ” and T,” You mean N?

    “moderate-to-strong on the T, and closer to center on J.”

    “But I tend to be quiet overall. ”

    Not me. 😉

    “But as far as what they represent, I find it repulsive (i.e. no tingles). I think I’m pretty good at sniffing out anyone who is not looking for an LTR.””

    INT’s, be they judgers or perceivers, tend to dislike BS in relationships and to be straight-shooters themselves. I think that’s why players don’t appeal.

    “INTJs are probably rarely gamed anyway. Because hardly anyone wants us!”

    Not so, IMHO. I just think that INT’s tend to be very serious people and that’s not an asset in the /dating scene. We also come off aloof and superior to others. It’s intimidating.

    I find that when I’m in a good mood and look light and breezy that men game me in all sorts of places. The dog’s vet asked me if “puppy had a daddy” last week. When I look serious, people stay away.

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  103. on June 22, 2010 at 11:21 pm R

    Hey, a girl I am going out with said she has a lot more male friends than female ones, that instantly puts her on the no-girlfriend material shelf right? It is a major red flag right?

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  104. on June 22, 2010 at 11:28 pm J

    @ Nicole

    “They don’t want to think about the fact that hot girls get old, and I’m an unpleasant reminder of that fact.”

    Or of their own aging, I imagine.

    “It wouldn’t occur to them that the television is wrong, and that they’re better off keeping the pretty girl they have or have access to, instead of chasing the unicorn. They don’t want to hear that.”

    I know. I got dumped on the first time I commented for suggesting settling for the obtainable.

    “I bet there’s some okay but cleans up well girl out there right now who Ryan is ignoring, trying to get to the unicorn. He probably even picks on a few of them to make sure that they understand how worthless they are by popular standards.”

    Sad.

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  105. on June 22, 2010 at 11:36 pm Gorbachev

    @Nicole,
    I bet there’s some okay but cleans up well girl out there right now who Ryan is ignoring, trying to get to the unicorn. He probably even picks on a few of them to make sure that they understand how worthless they are by popular standards.

    It’s funny how things work out in the long run.

    Women are guilty of the same thing; and the men are calculating in the same way that women do. The actual inputs are just different.

    Actually, character counts for a lot in a mate. If you’re looking for a LTR, a man is well-advised not to think entirely with his dick.

    But it’s a mating game; the penis has a role.

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  106. on June 22, 2010 at 11:37 pm Gorbachev

    @R
    Hey, a girl I am going out with said she has a lot more male friends than female ones, that instantly puts her on the no-girlfriend material shelf right? It is a major red flag right?

    Not necessarily. Might be. Might not. Depends.

    You just need more control, if she’s good with dudes.

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  107. on June 22, 2010 at 11:42 pm J

    @R

    “Hey, a girl I am going out with said she has a lot more male friends than female ones, that instantly puts her on the no-girlfriend material shelf right? It is a major red flag right?”

    Not necessarily. I tend to get along better with men than women and have been faithful to my husband for over 20 years. Of course, we’ve been married 42 years.

    Just kidding, I’ve never cheated.

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  108. on June 22, 2010 at 11:54 pm XCite

    Life will not end this way:

    LikeLike


  109. on June 22, 2010 at 11:59 pm dalrock

    @Nicole

    J, he’s kind of right. Very few guys here, if any, *want* to hear what I have to say. They only care what hot girls want, and how to be that.

    I think the issue is that advice from women to men across the board tends to be really bad. Roissy had the post not to long ago about the supermodel who gave awful advice which her own life choices entirely debunked. She’s the one I linked to in my mock agreement with ryan.

    For what it is worth, I personally enjoy your posts. I recall one in specific where you advised women not to get into “dick measuring” contests with men. Colorful insight.

    I don’t recall any noteworthy posts from ryan, but I’ve only been here for a few months and I don’t read every entry/comment. Maybe I’ve missed some really insightful thoughts he’s shared. Or maybe he has been holding out on us. But the idea that advice from a 10 is somehow more valuable has already been devastated by Roissy himself.

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  110. on June 23, 2010 at 12:01 am RMM

    Nicole:

    guys, at least since the 70′s, do care about social status a bit too much. They make our lives utterly miserable until college, and then they want to “experiment” with us. Then they go on to marry whores or harpies, or dump us for them, thinking they can do better, and that is somehow our fault for not looking perfect enough.

    It wouldn’t occur to them that the television is wrong, and that they’re better off keeping the pretty girl they have or have access to, instead of chasing the unicorn. They don’t want to hear that.

    I bet there’s some okay but cleans up well girl out there right now who Ryan is ignoring, trying to get to the unicorn. He probably even picks on a few of them to make sure that they understand how worthless they are by popular standards.

    So, what you’re saying is that guys are acting too much like girls. Gotcha.

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  111. on June 23, 2010 at 12:13 am Rum

    Attractive young women have it in their power to kill the spread of Game-PUArtistry in its tracks. All they need to do is treat would be “Players” like lets-just-be-friends and eagerly and openly spread their sweet thighs for stable-nice guys.
    Of course, the brain of the average attractive young woman will freeze up in horror at this suggestion. They might even vomit or faint.
    The thing is, modern chicks do not even bother to pretend that they are not riding some guys cock. This is a non-trivial change from the Olde Days. Because in the Olde Days a decent “beta” could at least maintain his fantasy that a reasonably fuckable hottie might someday want him because (in his mind anyway) she was not fucking anybody and so her real sexual instincts were mysterious and unrevealed, and so he could hope. These days, when such women are openly fucking around – but not with him – stable betas niceguys see their fantasies deflated in a way that is brutal and unmistakeable.. and this is not what their fathers saw.
    Keynes never saw this coming. But he was pretty thoroughly gay, as I have heard.

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  112. on June 23, 2010 at 12:21 am Name

    “” and T,” You mean N?”

    Sorry. Yes, you’re right. Strong I and N. (Moderately strong T, and weaker on the J.)

    “Not so, IMHO. I just think that INT’s tend to be very serious people and that’s not an asset in the /dating scene. We also come off aloof and superior to others. It’s intimidating.”

    Yeah, but if I didn’t have the aloofness, I’d be very uncomfortable due to the social anxiety. And not being at ease is just going to make others ill at ease. So, it’s probably for the best I appear bitchy 🙂 This way I don’t make anyone else uncomfortable.

    “I find that when I’m in a good mood and look light and breezy that men game me in all sorts of places.”
    See, even when I am in a good mood, I don’t really look like I am. And that’s just always the way it’s been. The social anxiety, though, has improved over the last decade.

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  113. on June 23, 2010 at 12:34 am J

    @Name

    “Yeah, but if I didn’t have the aloofness, I’d be very uncomfortable due to the social anxiety.”

    Yes, we tend to overcompensate that way. Generally, the more uncomfortable I am the moe aloof I appear.

    ” And not being at ease is just going to make others ill at ease. So, it’s probably for the best I appear bitchy 🙂 This way I don’t make anyone else uncomfortable.”

    Actually, it does make people uncomfortable. It’s often hard for INTs to meet/understand the needs of others. Realizing that others were as uncomfortable as I was made it easier for me to approach others and to understand when I was alienating others.

    “See, even when I am in a good mood, I don’t really look like I am. And that’s just always the way it’s been.”

    That’s off-putting to people. People approach those who seem approachable.

    “The social anxiety, though, has improved over the last decade.”

    I’m glad. Did you know that social anxiety is often neurological and that there are drugs to treat it?

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  114. on June 23, 2010 at 12:40 am Name

    “All they need to do is treat would be “Players” like lets-just-be-friends and eagerly and openly spread their sweet thighs for stable-nice guys.”

    Actually, this is probably my life story. (Alter the plural “guys” to singular.) Although, you’re right, enough girls wouldn’t do this. Since apparently 25th string George Clooney is better than 1st string Joe Schmoe. Not all girls are that brainless, though. I’m pretty sure I’m not vulnerable to players because my attraction-threshold is so high, and that initial interest is basically triggered on my own anyway. Players seem to be on an ADD-type timeline. And I simply don’t move that fast.

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  115. on June 23, 2010 at 12:45 am J

    @Rum

    “Attractive young women have it in their power to kill the spread of Game-PUArtistry in its tracks. All they need to do is treat would be “Players” like lets-just-be-friends and eagerly and openly spread their sweet thighs for stable-nice guys.”

    I agree.

    Would it help if I told you that as women mature they value stable guys more? It’s sad that they don’t realize earlier, but ir is true. It’s not just settling because they tire of the carousel ride. Their values usually actually change as they grow to undersand what’s important.

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  116. on June 23, 2010 at 12:54 am J

    @ Dalrock

    “Roissy had the post not to long ago about the supermodel who gave awful advice which her own life choices entirely debunked.”

    I recall that post and thought it was sort of dumb–both the supermodel’s advice and the notion that her opinions were representative of most women.

    I replied –I think yesterday– to your posts to me on the “Women Don’t Want You to Remember” thread. I realize it’s now a dead thread, but I had a really busy weekend. Check it out if you have time.

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  117. on June 23, 2010 at 1:08 am walawala

    “””Sidewinder
    I’d like to throw out a question for comments:

    In the course of a pickup, how does one recover from a stupid comment, a failed shit test, or any other display of beta-ness?

    In my experience, in only the rarest conversations do I bat a perfect 1.000, and I can usually always think of a few comments that could have been more clearly and strongly articulated, or a few comments or questions that I should have never said. “”

    I’m new to game.

    I’ve had some great successes and some “learnings”…where passing shit-tests lead to more shit-tests.

    Case study: younger girl, I use Mystery Method: number close, “when will I see you again?”.

    I set up a Day 2 “let’s meet for drinks”.

    She throws a curve….has her friend (our mutual friend) call me on her behalf to meet up.

    I blow it off.

    Then…I make the mistake of rewarding this flaking with another chance….

    Leads to another flake….

    My game is good….but it’s not leading to where it should.

    Lessons: be more mysterious. Never ever buy into her frame, or acknowledge the flake. Never acknowledge the “shit tests”.

    If you’re in a situation where the shit-tests are endless…my biggest learning is to pull-back. Be more aloof, less available.

    There are of course situations where you simply have to bail and reassess.

    You need to be able to understand where you are in the process and calibrate.

    If you find yourself bailing….or not getting anywhere, you need to look at where in the process it’s falling apart.

    The thing about game is that when you focus on one girl, you’re working too hard.

    I also find it best to practice game wherever I can. Even if it’s a neg or an opener, you can start to understand where to calibrate and fine tune your techniques.

    You can’t get discouraged. You can’t second guess yourself.

    Read more about recovering from shit-tests. Google it, there’s some great links.

    This helped me:

    http://www.fastseduction.com/phrases/pickup_workshop/pickup_workshop_003.shtml

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  118. on June 23, 2010 at 1:25 am J

    @Gorbachev

    “You just need more control, if she’s good with dudes.”

    Not necessarily. Liking men as friends and cheating are two different things. If my own experience is typical of women who have a lot of platonic male friends (not lovers), then I can tell you that attempts at being controlling will drive the girl away. Women who relate to men as real friends, not as LJBFs but as people with common interests and values, tend to be independent-minded.

    Besides which, I don’t think fidelity is based on control anyhow. I’m faithful, despite having plenty of opportunity not to be, because I value my marriage too much to jeopardize it. From love, not fear. If I felt controlled, I’d run like hell.

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  119. on June 23, 2010 at 1:33 am Gorbachev

    @J
    Would it help if I told you that as women mature they value stable guys more? It’s sad that they don’t realize earlier, but ir is true. It’s not just settling because they tire of the carousel ride. Their values usually actually change as they grow to undersand what’s important.

    Women become less hormonally driven: When younger, their hormones are telling them to find the most alpha male they can and fuck his brains out.

    In the “wild”, humans died by 30-35; a 40 year-old was ancient. When puberty hit (13-17), it was time to breed immediately. You need the right mate.

    This is why males are attracted physically to the prettiest 15-23 year-old they can find. It’s hard-wired.

    Women ride the cock carousel because they’re horny like bonobos. Not indiscriminately horny; horny for alpha cock.

    The sight of thousands of young girls going gaga for some rock star is the perfect symbol for this. Each one would gladly let a rock star rip into her and dump her without a second thought.

    This never really goes away, but the naked drive to fuck a hot guy with alpha behavior lessens over time.

    A 28-35 year-old needs to think differently. Her body changes.

    So her values change.

    People would be surprised how much of our supposed conscious behavior is hormonal and biological.

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  120. on June 23, 2010 at 1:34 am Name

    “It’s not just settling because they tire of the carousel ride. Their values usually actually change as they grow to undersand what’s important.”

    I’m sorry. I still view it as “settling.” Yes, their values “change,” but they change out of necessity. Some girls do realize what’s important early on, and marry young (*raises hand and waves wildly*) Funny, though, by most modern-day feminists standards marrying young is considering “settling” (i.e. “not holding out” for a “better offer”). As though the “perfect guy” (whatever that means) is going to magically appear when you turn 38.

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  121. on June 23, 2010 at 1:37 am J

    “during sex while you are choking her whisper into her ear ” i love you ” and watch her burst into tears .”

    Call me naive, but when did choking become a part of the average sexual repertoire?

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  122. on June 23, 2010 at 1:38 am Name

    “I’m glad. Did you know that social anxiety is often neurological and that there are drugs to treat it?”

    I suppose there are. Thanks for mentioning. But I don’t go the drug route. Generally, I take the most “natural” approach possible. Which usually means takes a lot of effort and takes the longest time to actually work 🙂 There are just very,very rare circumstances where I’d take drugs/pharmaceuticals, and the social anxiety wouldn’t be one of them.

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  123. on June 23, 2010 at 1:46 am J

    @Name

    I don’t see marrying young as settling.

    I think that the trend toward older marriages is a partly a function of people waitng to finish college, then grad school, then start a career, etc. before marrying. That extends adolescence into the thrities and even the forties, so that people have the values of teenagers as young adults. It’s conducive to their making stupid choices.

    Nice talking to you. I’m off to bed.

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  124. on June 23, 2010 at 1:46 am Gorbachev

    @Name
    I’m sorry. I still view it as “settling.” Yes, their values “change,” but they change out of necessity. Some girls do realize what’s important early on, and marry young (*raises hand and waves wildly*) Funny, though, by most modern-day feminists standards marrying young is considering “settling” (i.e. “not holding out” for a “better offer”). As though the “perfect guy” (whatever that means) is going to magically appear when you turn 38.

    The reason is this: entitlement.

    Women are supposed to be able to engage the most basic desires they have without consequence (like men are freer to do these days). Feminism tells them so. Be Free!

    Of course, this frees up the absolute worst and most predictable responses from both men and women. But feminism is about the individual freedom of each woman, and damn the consequences – even to the woman.

    Because outside factors and other actors are irrelevant in the initial analysis. Of course, these other actors and factors are rude and obnoxious and intrude impolitely as reality as women age.

    Entitlement. As women. Society or men be damned.

    Women ride the many dicks of hot men, 10-15% of the men sleep with 50-60% of the women, …

    But when they turn 30, the men are supposed to choose a woman their own age and settle. They’re supposed to, aren’t they? That’s what we were promised. That’s what men are for. I’m ready now. Come and get me. Why don’t the best men want me?

    This is what they get: All the Beta males they want, the men who had no women through the 20’s. They end up bitter. They’re older, not very interesting, and just not what the women are used to.

    The women want to be remembered for the 8 they were when they were 22 and all the men in the world hovered over them. Now, … the interesting and hot men shun her like a diseased monkey.

    This is what they say, and you can listen to the bitter catcall in the media:

    – There are no good men any more
    – All the good ones are taken
    – Men are shit. They chase young girls.
    – Men are immature. They chase younger women.
    – Men used me and threw me away.
    – You used the best years of my life and left me.

    Let me apply the Female Social Behavior Translator:

    I fucked the best 10% men throughout my youth, and now none of them will play to my Preferred Script. Who are these losers hitting on me? I’m a Hottie!

    Dammit, I have to let one of these losers touch me.

    Maybe I’ll just get cats and occasionally fuck someone as I get older.

    Men suck.

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  125. on June 23, 2010 at 1:48 am johnny five

    Funny, though, by most modern-day feminists standards marrying young is considering “settling” (i.e. “not holding out” for a “better offer”). As though the “perfect guy” (whatever that means) is going to magically appear when you turn 38.

    sweetie, you are making the all-too-common blunder of mistaking this deliberate deception for simple incorrectness.

    you see, this is a recruiting tactic on the part of feminists. the idea is to convince women to wait, against their better judgment, UNTIL a time when all their remaining prospects will pale in comparison to what they could once get.
    at that point, the women will conclude that it’s better to stay single — and the feminists will thus have conscripted a whole new platoon of footsoldiers.

    at this point we’re well past the juncture where the first group of footsoldiers — who don’t even know they are footsoldiers — are now doing the recruiting, thus hiding the cause at the beginning of the chain.

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  126. on June 23, 2010 at 1:52 am Gorbachev

    Women are also incapable, as a rule, of being honest about this brutal equation.

    It’s easy for them to lie to themselves. Men, less so.

    For men to lie to themselves, they need to believe women (dating advice).

    Cognitive dissonance is primarily a female characteristic. There’s a seriously powerful mechanism allowing women to delude themselves and convince themselves of anything.I guess it lets them function. But the consequences are sobering.

    This is fundamentally why feminism is repulsive to many men. It’s not the loss of power. It’s the complete lack of ability on the part of women to take full responsibility for the consequences of the choices they make.

    They *always* blame the men. That’s what men are for.

    Re-read everything written by feminist scholars with this in mind, and it’s eye-opening. Subtexts leap out and the intellectual vapidity smacks you awfully quick.

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  127. on June 23, 2010 at 2:09 am Capt. Obvious

    @Sniper

    “On the mother bit, maybe I’m just young, but it’s normal for people to talk about their relationships with their parents pretty early on in friendships and whatnot.

    But overall, that advice could have been better. It’s not what I would consider the essential “warning signs” of dating assholes. I was actually thinking of writing my own counter-PUA/relationship advice blog for women, but knowing some of the insane readers here, I would probably be tracked down and killed for educating the otherwise naive pussy collective.”

    This is comment is the reason why I wish this forum was only accessible to males.

    LikeLike


  128. on June 23, 2010 at 2:19 am johnny five

    capt. obvious —

    seriously. pure projection.
    when has there ever been any male resistance to girls having, well, girl talk?
    when has there even not been any female resistance to men having similar talk?

    i would bet good money that sniper’s blog would bear a striking resemblance to one of those “how to initiate your husband into a cuckold/hotwife relationship” blogs. haha

    LikeLike


  129. on June 23, 2010 at 2:38 am old guy

    @Nicole

    Ignore, as I know you will, the haters, a good idea is a good idea and a real insight is a real insight, you have provided both, thanx.

    @Sniper

    Please do educate the otherwise naive pussy collective, good luck with that.

    Love this blog, so much fun, so much learnin’.

    LikeLike


  130. on June 23, 2010 at 2:40 am old guy

    Also:

    naive pussy collective

    Good name for a band, hee hee.

    LikeLike


  131. on June 23, 2010 at 3:22 am Nicole

    Gorbachev, notice your response: women do the same thing.

    …

    There was a time when men understood that they really were smarter than women in some things. Why make a patently female mistake?

    So I understand why men go that way, but I can’t excuse them any more than I’d excuse women for their flavor of stupidity.

    I’m not saying that anybody should settle. I’m saying they should consider whether they’re really settling, when they’re faced with the best they’re ever going to encounter.

    Men are supposed to have their feet on the ground…not necessarily taking the path of least resistance, but seriously considering what things are worth to him personally.

    LikeLike


  132. on June 23, 2010 at 3:48 am Gorbachev

    @J

    @Gorbachev
    “You just need more control, if she’s good with dudes.”
    …
    Besides which, I don’t think fidelity is based on control anyhow. I’m faithful, despite having plenty of opportunity not to be, because I value my marriage too much to jeopardize it. From love, not fear. If I felt controlled, I’d run like hell.

    I see your point and I’ll give it to you.

    Younger women today may not subscribe to the same set of values. That this is demonstrable can be seen by a brief trip to any college or any major city (NYC, Boston, DC, LA, Chicago, …), … where the mating market is, essentially, a zoo.

    Control becomes something of a commandment.

    Anyway, we’re not talking about direct control: it’s indirect control, emotional unbalancing and push-pull.

    There’s no directly controlling behavior. I go a different direction from, say, xsplat. Both work, I just find overt control to be unsophisticated and counterproductive.

    But then, what do I know.

    LikeLike


  133. on June 23, 2010 at 3:58 am Gorbachev

    @J
    “during sex while you are choking her whisper into her ear ” i love you ” and watch her burst into tears .”

    Call me naive, but when did choking become a part of the average sexual repertoire?

    About 15% of the women I’ve been with have asked to be choked or asphyxiated in some manner. To quote, “It’s like an orgasm magnifier”. I presume it’s the lack of oxygen.
    * BTW, proceed carefully. Very.

    Also, at least 30% have wanted what amounts to physical abuse during sex. These are otherwise normal women.
    The boring-looking ones are usually the strangest.

    More than half had pretty hard rape/anonymous sex fantasies that have been enacted to extreme gratitude. I can’t count the number of otherwise good, clean women who go insane when called sluts or whores. All of them?

    I’m not into the whole choking thing, myself.

    At this point in my life, by the way, my sample size approaches scientifically valid levels.

    LikeLike


  134. on June 23, 2010 at 4:10 am Gorbachev

    @Nicole

    This is interesting. But I must disagree.

    Gorbachev, notice your response: women do the same thing.
    …
    There was a time when men understood that they really were smarter than women in some things. Why make a patently female mistake?
    So I understand why men go that way, but I can’t excuse them any more than I’d excuse women for their flavor of stupidity.
    I’m not saying that anybody should settle. I’m saying they should consider whether they’re really settling, when they’re faced with the best they’re ever going to encounter.
    Men are supposed to have their feet on the ground…not necessarily taking the path of least resistance, but seriously considering what things are worth to him personally.

    And why are you holding males to a higher standard than women?

    We’re just reactors. Women define all the rules.

    We play the game women sing. Game, players hanging to the fringes of society and beta men learning game and manipulating the market for their own advantage –

    These things are just reactions to the gatekeepers, the women.

    Ultimately, all of your complaints must be leveled at your fellow females.

    Radical feminism supplies us with fuel. Players are in love with feminism: it makes this lifestyle possible.

    As men, we truly can’t take responsibility for the creation or maintenance of this environment.

    That would be egotistical.

    LikeLike


  135. on June 23, 2010 at 5:50 am Original JB

    “Probably a bit different gaming an INTJ vs. ESFP”

    The worst PU experiences I’ve had were with T type women. I’m an INTJ myself (same as you, strong IN, moderate T, borderline J) and they are just not friendly at all and repel me even if cute. Fortunately I’ve learned to recognize them and avoid wasting time during pick up. It’s immediate abort. Male NTs + Female NFs ftw! That works wonderfully.

    LikeLike


  136. on June 23, 2010 at 8:24 am Badger Nation

    “That extends adolescence into the thrities and even the forties, so that people have the values of teenagers as young adults. It’s conducive to their making stupid choices.”

    One of the very scary things about today’s America is that people have the values of teenagers but the power and risk of adults – be it exposure to STDs from riding the carousel, running up credit card debt, access to hard drugs, pissing away a $120,000 college education, fucking up their career.

    In general, society is a LOT less forgiving of any fuck-up after college graduation.

    LikeLike


  137. on June 23, 2010 at 8:32 am tim

    Gorbachev is totally right in his comments. Nicole, as always is totally wrong.

    LikeLike


  138. on June 23, 2010 at 8:39 am Badger Nation

    XCite,

    A truly sad video. I think most men are beta males and let chicks walk them around by the nose, OR they’ve been taught to feel lucky any woman is paying any attention to them and driven to settle on the best they think they’ll ever get, and they never undertake the steps needed to free their personality.

    They have no idea life could be better…they are SO F’ING MONEY and the don’t even know it!

    LikeLike


  139. on June 23, 2010 at 8:47 am Badger Nation

    Nicole,

    “I bet there’s some okay but cleans up well girl out there right now who Ryan is ignoring, trying to get to the unicorn. He probably even picks on a few of them to make sure that they understand how worthless they are by popular standards.”

    Your theory has a flaw…Ryan probably has no interest in the “OK” girls because most young American women, regardless of looks, are entitled and unpleasant to be around. One would think homely women would make up for it by having an enjoyable personality – not a doormat, but a pleasant, non-demanding person.

    One would be wrong in most cases. So if you’re going to deal with a bitch either way, why not swing for the fences?

    The so-called “OK girls” need to ask themselves the same question the beta males need to – “what in me is worth another person’s time?” I actually wonder if homely girls may be more into pump-and-dump with top dogs than hot chicks, since they have a far lower chance of getting together with one long-term.

    Exhibit #1,925 in the Devil’s Bargain that was the feminist movement – women can now do all the alpha c*ck they want. The consequence is that men see their unvarnished hypergamy, promiscuity and overblown ego and want nothing to do with an LTR with them.

    Men do not exist to take (conflicting, dissonant) orders at the snap of a woman’s fingers.

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  140. on June 23, 2010 at 8:52 am Badger Nation

    “Attractive young women have it in their power to kill the spread of Game-PUArtistry in its tracks. All they need to do is treat would be “Players” like lets-just-be-friends and eagerly and openly spread their sweet thighs for stable-nice guys.”

    The hypocrisy of many women whining about what they want in men and then taking the opposite home for a hot roll in the 1,000-thread count hay is hilarious.

    We should all remember that Game came after feminism…it is a response to market demand for guys who can build comfort and attraction.

    Now feminists want to complain the store is stocking their favorite product, and whine about market failure because they can’t find husbands at 30.

    LikeLike


  141. on June 23, 2010 at 8:55 am Badger Nation

    “Very few guys here, if any, *want* to hear what I have to say. They only care what hot girls want, and how to be that.”

    Not really. The flaw in your logic is that guys need game to bag almost ANY woman. It’s not just “hot girls” that respond to it. Any quality woman is going to need comfort, attraction and all the rest of it to want to be with a guy.

    Peddling pretty lies under the guise of “well game only works on hot bar sluts” is sophistry. Lozlzlzlzlll.

    LikeLike


  142. on June 23, 2010 at 9:00 am Name

    “I think that the trend toward older marriages is a partly a function of people waitng to finish college, then grad school,”

    See, I actually did all that and still married young. (minus the career part). But I just view it as weird when empty nesting and retirement coincide, which happens if you wait long enough to have kids.

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  143. on June 23, 2010 at 9:08 am Name

    “Any quality woman is going to need comfort, attraction and all the rest of it to want to be with a guy.” True. Otherwise, we’d be celibate, minus those with the short C-V ratio Roissy’s mentioned, there’s no trigger to start thinking sex without some form of game. The key for (level headed) females is figuring out whether the game player is in it for a month or in it for a decade (or more).

    LikeLike


  144. on June 23, 2010 at 10:24 am The Truth

    Badger Nation: Enjoying your posts. Keep it up.

    LikeLike


  145. on June 23, 2010 at 11:23 am dalrock

    @J

    Would it help if I told you that as women mature they value stable guys more? It’s sad that they don’t realize earlier, but ir is true. It’s not just settling because they tire of the carousel ride. Their values usually actually change as they grow to undersand what’s important.

    GBFM said the same thing in just 3 words. Four if you include “free”.

    Besides, from your post to me on the other thread (thanks for the heads up), I thought you constantly meet young college age women who weren’t interested in casual sex, and really wanted to become some nice guy’s wife instead (all of their words and deeds to the contrary notwithstanding). Have you lost your faith so quickly?

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  146. on June 23, 2010 at 11:43 am dalrock

    @Badger Nation

    Now feminists want to complain the store is stocking their favorite product, and whine about market failure because they can’t find husbands at 30.

    Brilliant!

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  147. on June 23, 2010 at 11:53 am Nicole

    Gorbachev asks, “And why are you holding males to a higher standard than women?”

    There was a time when men held themselves to a higher standard than women.

    Shame to see that has changed.

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  148. on June 23, 2010 at 12:01 pm dalrock

    @Gorbachev

    At this point in my life, by the way, my sample size approaches scientifically valid levels.

    Great sentence. Are we talking T or Z statistics?

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  149. on June 23, 2010 at 12:02 pm Gorbachev

    @Nicole
    Gorbachev asks, “And why are you holding males to a higher standard than women?”

    There was a time when men held themselves to a higher standard than women.
    Shame to see that has changed.

    Women are usually not worth us holding ourselves to higher standards, miss.

    It just took us a while to realize it.

    Feminism is all about equality, right?

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  150. on June 23, 2010 at 12:05 pm dalrock

    J,

    Probably a good think you told the vet no. After reading this blog for a few months, I think I have a pretty good idea how it would have went:

    Player Vet: “Does puppy have a daddy?”

    J (giggles, twirls hair): “It’s complicated.”

    Player Vet: “Wanna be my bitch?”

    I hope you know I’m teasing.

    LikeLike


  151. on June 23, 2010 at 12:17 pm Nicole

    Badger, I’m not theorizing. I’m speaking from experience and things I’ve seen people do.

    The okay girls who aren’t following the herd and trying to screw all the jocks in school get picked on and harassed or ignored. I don’t know what planet you grew up on, but down here on earth, we tend to spend our high school years being shit on, and our college years nearly invisible except to benevolent souls who consider us a kind of charity work, and then get angry when we don’t want their pity shags.

    I’m not even talking about girls who have some kind of major defect…just girls who don’t fit or don’t want to fit the media template, which requires a certain degree of body modification and ornamentation.

    I coped by dating older men. Because of stupid age of consent laws that don’t take the reality of a non popular girl’s situation, this was unnecessarily difficult. A girl should have the option of bypassing her immature, bitch-bred peers, and going for guys who have a real mother.

    The problem is that today, those guys are precious few, and getting fewer since my generation was essentially raised by avowed feminists, and the 90’s born kids are raised by the traumatized, misparented, or underparented kids of feminists since a relatively old fashioned or secular realist/humanist girl was convinced through others’ behavior that she was an unwelcome, unloved dinosaur for the most part.

    Posting here, I talk about serious things, so I seem kind of hard-assed, but offline most people view me as a happy, optimistic, warm and jolly type of lady. I’m that way because there’s so much shit in the world that I feel it’s wrong to add more to it. I smile at people and try to spread positivity because I spent a good part of my life having negativity shoved at me, and I’m a bit of a rebel.

    Not every woman can keep that up though. Even I paid the price of shoving pain down, with my health for many years.

    So realistically, I don’t *expect* men to do better than women at crabs in a bucket, but I *demand* that they do, or they don’t register in my mind as men. A guy who engages in, or tolerates the suppression of the women who are doing it right has no moral advantage over women who chase bad boys. They are part of the same problem.

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  152. on June 23, 2010 at 12:28 pm Nicole

    Gorbachev says, “Women are usually not worth us holding ourselves to higher standards, miss.”

    Are you, yourself worth it?

    “It just took us a while to realize it.”

    You’re not realizing anything your grandfather or great grandfather didn’t know. It’s just that you rejected the truth until you realized that the lie wasn’t going to get you laid.

    …but instead of fully rejecting the lie and all that comes with it, you figure that you’re going to try to pick and choose what parts of truth you embrace, and use that to attract women who are living in the lie instead of going for the women who are living in truth.

    There are many of us, partly since there are more ugly and okay girls than there are super hot ones. Not all of us had the luxury of believing that we were more valuable than we are. A good chunk of us believe that we are less valuable than we are.

    How is a man any less to blame than a woman for chasing a lie?

    “Feminism is all about equality, right?”

    I’m not a feminist, but as a man, you should realize that “equality” for you means taking a step down from your natural position.

    In my opinion, it’s more sad to see the king acting like a slave than it is to see a slave become king.

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  153. on June 23, 2010 at 12:40 pm Gorbachev

    @Nicole
    Gorbachev says, “Women are usually not worth us holding ourselves to higher standards, miss.”

    Are you, yourself worth it?

    Of course. But I’m interested in actually sleeping with women. Not just being their best friends. And finding a good mate requires engaging some of these rather frustrating, unselfaware ladies.

    “It just took us a while to realize it.”
    You’re not realizing anything your grandfather or great grandfather didn’t know. It’s just that you rejected the truth until you realized that the lie wasn’t going to get you laid.
    …but instead of fully rejecting the lie and all that comes with it, you figure that you’re going to try to pick and choose what parts of truth you embrace, and use that to attract women who are living in the lie instead of going for the women who are living in truth.

    The women living in the truth are thin on the ground.

    There are many of us, partly since there are more ugly and okay girls than there are super hot ones. Not all of us had the luxury of believing that we were more valuable than we are. A good chunk of us believe that we are less valuable than we are.

    And I’m sure much of this is undeserved. Part of the attraction of very attractive women is the novelty; much of it is raw physical sexuality. But I’ll admit that ugly and okay girls are also human, are also often desirable on their own terms, and can be very attractive. Not every woman is an 8. Some are, … not. And are deeply significant people.

    But the mating game is just that: a mating game. And I can’t deny the raw truth of my sexual attraction to attractive women. It’s crippling in a way: I can’t find some women attractive. BTW, I’ve tried. It’s led to disappointment on both sides.

    How is a man any less to blame than a woman for chasing a lie?

    No less to blame. But, I would like to point out, no more, either.

    “Feminism is all about equality, right?”

    I’m not a feminist, but as a man, you should realize that “equality” for you means taking a step down from your natural position.

    I think you’re pedestalizing men. That’s actually quite interesting.

    I shall ponder this.

    In my opinion, it’s more sad to see the king acting like a slave than it is to see a slave become king.

    LikeLike


  154. on June 23, 2010 at 1:13 pm Eric

    I’m an INTJ and have without a doubt best clicked with ENFPs

    LikeLike


  155. on June 23, 2010 at 1:45 pm Nicole

    Gorbachev says, “Of course. But I’m interested in actually sleeping with women. Not just being their best friends. And finding a good mate requires engaging some of these rather frustrating, unselfaware ladies.”

    What is a “good mate” to you?

    The easiest way out of the friend zone is not to get into it in the first place. You don’t have to “engage” women who aren’t interested in you if your cards are on the table from the beginning. That’s called courtship. You express your interest in a real relationship, and take some time to see if she’s worthy of you. You don’t have to shag a woman just because you’ve seduced her.

    There is the option of seducing her, taking some time to check her out, planting your flag, and then shagging her.

    Just a thought.

    “The women living in the truth are thin on the ground.”

    Women living in truth have always been rare. Women are natural relativists. It’s what keeps us from killing most of our babies who are born due to raiding parties, wars, and premarital sex. It’s what drives us to kill our babies when the culture is patently against us having them, or favors one gender over another.

    As a group, we can kill our babies. There’s even an African cautionary tale about spousal abuse in which the women decided to kill all the babies until the men started to treat them better.

    You want to start requiring us to be less flaky and relativist, you have to not be flaky and relativist to accomplish it. Women are only non flaky and honorable when they have honorable, non flaky parents enforcing that. It damned sure takes a dad to do the enforcing.

    “But the mating game is just that: a mating game. And I can’t deny the raw truth of my sexual attraction to attractive women. It’s crippling in a way: I can’t find some women attractive. BTW, I’ve tried. It’s led to disappointment on both sides”

    As I’ve said, I’m not telling anyone to settle or force themselves into a relationship with someone they’re not attracted to. I’m just saying that there are consequences for one’s actions.

    If a woman likes bad boys then she has to understand there’s a price to pay for that. Bad boys who treat their woman with respect are very rare, and usually connected to the mafia or some other organized group that has a kind of culture of accountability. Thumping on a connected woman would be a bad idea (though it does happen).

    Generally though, malignant narcissists don’t play favorites. They just have people who are more or less convenient to be nice to. So a woman who likes that type should understand they come with an obligation to tolerate abuse.

    If a guy can only get it up for 8+, then he has to understand that this comes with the price of every other guy she encounters trying to shag her until she’s old. That can do things to a woman’s mind, and anyone who dates her has to be prepared for high maintenance, and never being able to be human around her.

    If you follow the normal pattern, it probably won’t take but a few years before you miraculously start being turned on by less hot women. It’s pavlovian. By then though, you’ll have a couple of kids, and it’ll be too late to get out without paying.

    See, budding PUA’s often see scoring the hot chick like women see the wedding. They don’t think about what’s going to happen after the big event.

    Don’t get me wrong. I think it’s a good learning experience, and some guys do land the rare, elusive unicorn. However, the vast majority don’t. You might be the exception, but just sleep with one eye open until she’s 40.

    “No less to blame. But, I would like to point out, no more, either.”

    Perhaps, but since men are the enforcement arm of a civilization, as they say, “He who does the work, gets the blame.”

    If I find myself in a situation where my coworkers are being irresponsible, and I’m getting the blame, and I can’t change them, I change companies.

    “I think you’re pedestalizing men. That’s actually quite interesting.”

    I have a fantastic dad, an awesome albeit now platonic husband, two kick ass brothers, and some phenomenal male friends. I know what a good man is, and that it is possible to be a good, successful one despite the world being a screwy place.

    LikeLike


  156. on June 23, 2010 at 2:54 pm Dat_Truth_Hurts

    I’m ESPN and getting fucking blitzed to celebrate the win tonight.

    LikeLike


  157. on June 23, 2010 at 3:00 pm J

    @Gorbachev–

    “Women ride the cock carousel because they’re horny like bonobos. Not indiscriminately horny; horny for alpha cock.”

    Well, that’s the theory, I know. And while I have seen the phenomenon, but I don’t think it’s universal. I know many women, myself included, who aren’t tempted by alphas. And I really think it’s related to introversion, intuition and thinking. INTs tend to stand outside the monkey house in detached bemusement, looking stuch up and condescending. Or let me put it in PUA-speak. We are the female equivalent of Vox Day style sigmas.

    “The sight of thousands of young girls going gaga for some rock star is the perfect symbol for this. Each one would gladly let a rock star rip into her and dump her without a second thought.”

    There are certainly enough girls like that to make game a valid strategy for guys who need it. But it’s like your comments on another thread about superstitution/intermittent reinforcement. The positive reaction of some women to aplha or alpha-wannabe behavior makes game worthwhile because guys get to score with the girls to whom it appeals. You don’t see the rest of the girls; they are home crying into their pillows about how guys only like sluts.

    “People would be surprised how much of our supposed conscious behavior is hormonal and biological.”

    Yeah, progersterone and oxytocin from pregnancy,childbirth and breastfeeding made their mark on me.

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  158. on June 23, 2010 at 3:09 pm J

    @ Johnny 5

    “you see, this is a recruiting tactic on the part of feminists. the idea is to convince women to wait, against their better judgment, UNTIL a time when all their remaining prospects will pale in comparison to what they could once get.
    at that point, the women will conclude that it’s better to stay single — and the feminists will thus have conscripted a whole new platoon of footsoldiers’

    Conspiracy theory much? While I agree that a lot of women are missing the boat, I don’t there’s a strategy. It’s more of an unintended consequence of thinking you can have it all — especially all at once.

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  159. on June 23, 2010 at 3:36 pm J

    @Gorbachev

    “Women are supposed to be able to engage the most basic desires they have without consequence (like men are freer to do these days). Feminism tells them so. Be Free!”

    I fully agree that this is a bad strategy for women and have said so elsewhere. OTOH, men do love a slut. At least in the short term, sluts can get a lot of support from some men. There are even some evo-psych theorists who say that sluttery is a workable survival strategy “in the wild” because many baby-daddies make it easier to gather resources from a variety of males.

    An example, my hairdresser…Early 30s, blonde (dyed), blue-eyed, very cute, even done to her name…Angel. But Angel ain’t no angel. She has an 18 year old daughter that lives with dad. She has had an on and off relationship with her “boyfriend” for about five years. The relationship breaks off whenever he catches her cheating but somehow they always get back together. About two years ago, she proudly told me that she’d moved in with him. I personally think it’s bad business to move in with a guy you’re not married to, but somehow she made it work for her.

    Angel is now expecting. She’s not happy about it as she “really hates kids–Not yours, J, but you know…” She’s keeping the baby because her boyfriend, in his forties, sees this as his last chance for kids and his parents want a grandchild. She’s aborted a couple other of his babies, yet there he is, still sticking his dick into this morass. Amazing..

    More amazing. They are geting married. My prediction: it’ll last a few months, she’ll leave. Boyfriend and his folks will–Thank God!–raise this baby alone.

    Now flashback to last Christmas. As I’m sitting in the chair, there’s a endless parade of male clients with Xmas presents and envelopes, and she’s hugging and kissing them all. Even in front of each other.

    Tell me, oh wise one, why do the heathen rage?

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  160. on June 23, 2010 at 3:47 pm J

    @ Gorbachev at 3:48

    Glad to hear that you are going in the opposite direction from xsplat. In my 23rd year of fidelity to the same guy, I’d say that my personal regard for him is the biggest contributing factor to it, not game.

    I thank God, I’m not dating now.

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  161. on June 23, 2010 at 4:03 pm J

    @ Gorbachev

    “About 15% of the women I’ve been with have asked to be choked or asphyxiated in some manner. To quote, “It’s like an orgasm magnifier”. ”

    Ah, the antics in the monkey house get stranger all the time. Didn’t David Carradine teach us anything?

    “lso, at least 30% have wanted what amounts to physical abuse during sex. These are otherwise normal women.
    The boring-looking ones are usually the strangest.”

    Wow.

    More than half had pretty hard rape/anonymous sex fantasies that have been enacted to extreme gratitude.

    And more wow. Swept away is one thing, but rape?

    “oherwise good, clean women who go insane when called sluts or whores.”

    See, I’d go insane too. And by insane, I mean a good, clean kick to the nuts.

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  162. on June 23, 2010 at 4:05 pm J

    @Badger Nation at 8:24

    Yep.

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  163. on June 23, 2010 at 4:10 pm J

    @Name

    “See, I actually did all that and still married young. (minus the career part).”

    That’s great. I think the hard part is finding the guy to do it with. Even back when I was dating, the mere mention of marriage would send them flying.

    “But I just view it as weird when empty nesting and retirement coincide, which happens if you wait long enough to have kids.”

    Basically, it will happen to me and it will be weird.

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  164. on June 23, 2010 at 4:17 pm J

    @ Dalrock

    “Besides, from your post to me on the other thread (thanks for the heads up), I thought you constantly meet young college age women who weren’t interested in casual sex, and really wanted to become some nice guy’s wife instead (all of their words and deeds to the contrary notwithstanding). Have you lost your faith so quickly?”

    No, but I’m saying that we may be asking women to wait too long for Prince Charming. The sweet girl at 20 looking for Mr. Right is going to get jaded waiting for him to settle down at 40. Are we seriously expecting 20 plus years of celibacy from women? Or, are we expecting her to marry a guy who is nearly old enough to be her father?

    Oh wait, some of you guys actually are.

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  165. on June 23, 2010 at 4:20 pm tom

    Nicole: you are a fat fuck old woman. go play with your cats. you provide nothing of value to the forum. nobody has asked for the nearest mcdonalds directions or the closet donut shop. shut the fuck up. thank you from everyone. get your fat ass on a treadmill you goddamn elephant.

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  166. on June 23, 2010 at 4:26 pm J

    @Eric

    “I’m an INTJ and have without a doubt best clicked with ENFPs”

    I think most of the Myers-Briggs folks would predict that.

    My husband and I are both INTs. It works for us because we are are both independent people who neither want to dominate or be dominated. We understand each other and give each other space. I can easily see though how complementary styles would work out as well or better. Where we bang heads, it’s because we are too similar and stubborn.

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  167. on June 23, 2010 at 4:47 pm The Truth

    All these personal attacks on Nicole show a lack of class. Grow up. Pets not become like the feminuts.

    LikeLike


  168. on June 23, 2010 at 5:14 pm Ronin

    Badger and Gorbi killing it as usual.

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  169. on June 23, 2010 at 5:14 pm The Truth

    Let’s. Fuckin iphone keyboard

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  170. on June 23, 2010 at 5:32 pm Sniper

    @ Name and J,

    INTJs are probably rarely gamed anyway. Because hardly anyone wants us!

    I found your conversation interesting, as I am also an INTJ female. I’ll have to agree that insecure PUAs know not to bother with INTx’s. We do have quite the bullshit detection, since we’re typically so “straight-shooting” and blunt. PUA’s main weapons seem to be toiling with a girl’s emotions with flowery poetry, implications galore, and double-meanings, and that’s the exact kind of dialog that INTx’s find to be insincere and a waste of our time.

    In fact, we have probably already accurately sized you up before you even approach us.

    INTx’s are hard to game, and couple that with a level of cool confidence that makes insecure betas (aka, 90% of PUAs) run crying because they know they could never be as smart as us. 🙂

    Real alpha males make excellent friends, though. They can keep up with interesting conversations without desperately pawing at our skirt hems for sexual validation every once in a while.

    @ Original JB

    The worst PU experiences I’ve had were with T type women. I’m an INTJ myself (same as you, strong IN, moderate T, borderline J) and they are just not friendly at all and repel me even if cute. Fortunately I’ve learned to recognize them and avoid wasting time during pick up. It’s immediate abort.

    They probably repel you because they’ve already sniffed out your facepalm-inducing PUA manners right when you walked in the room. They let you talk to them out of politeness and future amusing storytime with friends later on. INTJs make the best trolls; I’m sure you would know. 😛

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  171. on June 23, 2010 at 5:32 pm lazy guy

    @ Gorbachev

    “This is fundamentally why feminism is repulsive to many men. It’s not the loss of power. It’s the complete lack of ability on the part of women to take full responsibility for the consequences of the choices they make.”

    Your observations remind me of that moment in the movie As Good As It Gets, when a young woman asks the popular novelist played by Jack Nicholson how he is able to write his female characters so realistically or convincingly.

    He answers with relish
    “I think of a man. Then I take away reason and accountability.”

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  172. on June 23, 2010 at 5:41 pm fatter whoopi

    nicole looks like a monster. has anyone serious ever clicked on her name to link to her page? she looks like whoopi goldberg except more repulsively vile looking and 200 pounds heavier. i just puked all over my computer screen.

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  173. on June 23, 2010 at 5:44 pm Gorbachev

    @Sniper,

    You’ve never met a good PUA. Obviously. Yet you speak so authoritatively.

    Are you just delusional or does your lolita lifestyle mean you’re completely removed from reality?

    I’ll try One. More. Time.

    INTJs are probably rarely gamed anyway. Because hardly anyone wants us!

    If they’re hot, someone will try to game them.

    I found your conversation interesting, as I am also an INTJ female. I’ll have to agree that insecure PUAs

    This would be a subset of PUAs, yes? Because an instinct says to me that you mean all PUAs.

    The last thing a good PUA is is insecure. Trust me on that one.

    know not to bother with INTx’s. We do have quite the bullshit detection, since we’re typically so “straight-shooting” and blunt. PUA’s main weapons seem to be toiling with a girl’s emotions with flowery poetry, implications galore, and double-meanings, and that’s the exact kind of dialog that INTx’s find to be insincere and a waste of our time.

    A good PUA will tool you based on what you put out. You put out direct and straightforward, and a PUA will use this.

    You really don’t get it, right?

    Do you actually have sex with men?

    In fact, we have probably already accurately sized you up before you even approach us.

    Um. Sure.

    INTx’s are hard to game, and couple that with a level of cool confidence that makes insecure betas (aka, 90% of PUAs) run crying because they know they could never be as smart as us. 🙂

    Yes. You do see so very bright.

    Real alpha males make excellent friends, though. They can keep up with interesting conversations without desperately pawing at our skirt hems for sexual validation every once in a while.

    So you don’t have sex, then. Or no-one wants to have sex with you.

    @ Original JB
    The worst PU experiences I’ve had were with T type women. I’m an INTJ myself (same as you, strong IN, moderate T, borderline J) and they are just not friendly at all and repel me even if cute. Fortunately I’ve learned to recognize them and avoid wasting time during pick up. It’s immediate abort.

    Oh, so you’re not straight. This might explain how you avoid PUAs.

    They probably repel you because they’ve already sniffed out your facepalm-inducing PUA manners right when you walked in the room. They let you talk to them out of politeness and future amusing storytime with friends later on. INTJs make the best trolls; I’m sure you would know. 😛

    Troll is the right word.

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  174. on June 23, 2010 at 6:15 pm Sniper

    @ Gorby,

    Your rage continues to cause too many typos and logical fallacies to bother reading for more than 20 seconds.

    So you don’t have sex, then. Or no-one wants to have sex with you.

    I have friends who are alpha males, therefore I don’t have sex? Illogical.

    Furthermore, I have friends who are alpha males, therefore I don’t get “gamed” and/or hit on. Also illogical. Or you come from a strange world where attractive men and attractive women are never platonic friends. How sad.

    Oh, so you’re not straight. This might explain how you avoid PUAs.

    I didn’t say that. Original JB did. Notice how it was in blockquotes.

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  175. on June 23, 2010 at 6:35 pm Gorbachev

    @Sniper
    @ Gorby,
    Your rage continues to cause too many typos and logical fallacies to bother reading for more than 20 seconds.

    Yeah, I should take the time to go over what I write and carefully compose things for you.

    I have friends who are alpha males, therefore I don’t have sex? Illogical.

    Not at all. You mean to say your alpha friends immunize you from infection by other alpha males. I smell something stinky.

    Furthermore, I have friends who are alpha males, therefore I don’t get “gamed” and/or hit on.

    By anybody. Okaaay.

    Eeenteresting.

    Also illogical. Or you come from a strange world where attractive men and attractive women are never platonic friends. How sad.

    Not at all. Just that you think these alphas immunize you.

    I guarantee you a smart alpha would tool you without you even knowing. Except that you do seem like a couple kinds of crazy. Or perhaps eccentric is the right word?

    It’s nothing personal, but your claims to be immune to game just strike me as completely counter to my own experience.

    It apples to 60 year old women and 18 year old hotties. Always works, not always necessary. Of course, the reward has to be worth the effort.

    Oh, so you’re not straight. This might explain how you avoid PUAs.
    I didn’t say that. Original JB did. Notice how it was in blockquotes.

    I did notice after I posted. Alas, I didn’t take the time to properly word a careful response to you. I’m ashamed.

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  176. on June 23, 2010 at 6:48 pm Badger Nation

    The Truth,

    All my life I’ve wanted to agree with the truth.

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  177. on June 23, 2010 at 7:00 pm Lily

    @Gorbachev

    “The reason is this: entitlement…Entitlement. As women. Society or men be damned.”

    I’ve read quite a few comments on this blog from men who seem to think that 7 or below (and for some 8 or below) is not worth gaming or some said is a ‘skank’.

    I’m assuming that not all these men are 8 or above, either in looks alone or overall status, themselves. Is this not entitlement?

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  178. on June 23, 2010 at 7:07 pm Gorbachev

    @Lily

    @Gorbachev

    I’m assuming that not all these men are 8 or above, either in looks alone or overall status, themselves. Is this not entitlement?

    I don’t assume I deserve it. I just want it. and I work hard for it.

    There’s a very subtle but very important difference. If you don’t see it, then it’s the same issue again.

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  179. on June 23, 2010 at 7:13 pm Lily

    @R
    “Hey, a girl I am going out with said she has a lot more male friends than female ones, that instantly puts her on the no-girlfriend material shelf right? It is a major red flag right?”
    Not necessarily.

    She may have been a tomboy type when a child. Also she may have not like the drama that’s associated with females, particularly in early twenties. If you’re a good looking girl friendships (proper friendships, I don’t mean going out to club with girls you’ll hang out with) can be quite challenging. And also if you’re not into going shopping with friends or spending your time talking about boys and gossiping and handbags then you may be more likely to be friends with boys than girls.

    Try and meet the male friends. Try and use your intuition (not clouded by insecurity) if she/they are friends or FWBs. A lot obviously depends on her character.

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  180. on June 23, 2010 at 7:19 pm Lily

    @ Gorbachev

    “I don’t assume I deserve it. I just want it. and I work hard for it. There’s a very subtle but very important difference.”

    Yes, that is a very important difference.

    Though if someone by passes a 7 so that they can game the 10 whom they consider a higher value and they for example call 7s skanks, what is that?

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  181. on June 23, 2010 at 7:23 pm Sniper

    @ Gorby,

    You mean to say your alpha friends immunize you from infection by other alpha males.

    Wrong. The only person who “immunizes” me to PUAs is me. I just said that alphas make good friends. You jump to random conclusions faster than most housewives.

    By anybody. Okaaay.

    I was paraphrasing what you implied about me to point out how it’s an illogical inference. You’re not the brightest person here, I see.

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  182. on June 23, 2010 at 7:26 pm Sniper

    @ R,

    Hey, a girl I am going out with said she has a lot more male friends than female ones, that instantly puts her on the no-girlfriend material shelf right? It is a major red flag right?

    Yes, put her on the no-girlfriend shelf and forget about her. No, I’m serious. The last thing this girl needs is some insecure boyfriend who slowly tries to guilt her away from spending time with her friends, who might be the only people that will protect her from you.

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  183. on June 23, 2010 at 7:30 pm Lily

    Ooh Sniper, that last sentence was very harsh…is that how you chose your name?

    I agree that alphas make very good friends, but from my personal experience of people I actually know in real life, they are natural ones.

    I think player types can make quite fun acquaintances in a social circle. I’d only say one of them I know would make a good friend and actually he’s a natural alpha too (the others I’m talking about I wouldn’t describe as players).

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  184. on June 23, 2010 at 7:34 pm narciso babaero

    INTx’s are hard to game

    pah!

    intx’s require a lot less physical effort, since multiple venue changes / time distortion can be accomplished purely inside their heads.

    it’s a lot easier to manipulate internal environments than to manipulate external ones.

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  185. on June 23, 2010 at 7:35 pm Lily

    @R
    One of my brothers had a similar dilemma but was secure enough to see it through (he’s another natural alpha), 10 years later they are married and she is still friends with those guys she was friends with then and also good friends with women she met in antenatal classes and the mothers of her children’s schoolfriends.

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  186. on June 23, 2010 at 7:36 pm Gorbachev

    @Lily

    Though if someone by passes a 7 so that they can game the 10 whom they consider a higher value and they for example call 7s skanks, what is that?

    I don’t call 7s skanks.

    There are some I (‘ve) dearly love (d).

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  187. on June 23, 2010 at 7:39 pm Gorbachev

    @Sniper
    I was paraphrasing what you implied about me to point out how it’s an illogical inference. You’re not the brightest person here, I see.

    You caught me. The truth is I’m not really paying attention to what you write.

    I read your blog, and while entertaining, I’ve figured out something about you.

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  188. on June 23, 2010 at 7:41 pm johnny five

    oh, and intx’s are also a nice change of pace because you can get at them with, rather than despite, shit like cheesy physics analogies

    haha

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  189. on June 23, 2010 at 7:41 pm Lily

    @ Gorbachev
    None of my comments were aimed at you personally. Sheesh, it’s women who are usually accused of using their personal situation rather than commenting on a wider picture 😉

    I was commenting on attitudes I’ve perceived on the board, so I was just wondering what you thought of that in comparison to the entitlement you said women have.

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  190. on June 23, 2010 at 7:47 pm Gorbachev

    @Lily,

    I think I need more sleep.

    I see your point. I think men get there out of bitterness and contempt; women out of entitlement.

    As a rule.

    The the entitlement is totally a female thing. The bitterness at women is definitely a male thing.

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  191. on June 23, 2010 at 8:14 pm Name

    “intx’s require a lot less physical effort, since multiple venue changes / time distortion can be accomplished purely inside their heads.”

    ROFLMAO.

    I think that comment made my day.

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  192. on June 23, 2010 at 9:21 pm E

    @johnny five:

    you give some pretty damn good advice.

    any chance you could start a second blog about pick up game?

    some of us younger guys are more interested in ONS and STFs than LTRs.

    i think your advice would be appreciated since i have a tough time finding a game blog that isn’t just dedicated to teaching newbs.

    thanks.

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  193. on June 24, 2010 at 12:30 am Nicole

    To all my haters, you always say the same damned thing over and over again, since I was like 6.

    You’d think that in 34 years, at least one of you would come up with something to say other than what amounts to “you’re ugly”.

    I was ugly when I was in the first grade and my classmates thought it would be funny to tell the teacher I was talking while she wasn’t in the room, so she’d beat me.

    I was ugly when the same teacher saw fit to tell my parents what a horrible little girl I was in school, so they beat me…which is understandable, but that was about when I learned the nature of sheeple, and that you idiots would eat your own young just to make yourselves look good.

    Then I was hideous at 9 when…bad things happened because I was an ugly little loner who looked like she needed attention and wouldn’t tell anyone.

    I became even more disgustingly atrocious and horrid to look at when I was 15, and some guy I’d never met took it upon himself to explain to me yet again how ugly I am, just in case I forgot.

    A chorus of guys joined in with him to sing the ugly song.

    This lasted for about 2.5 years until I nearly ruined one of their faces. Unfortunately, I missed by an inch but hey, I throw like a girl.

    Over the years, I was in numerous fights, some with people with knives who thought I was so ugly that my face needed adjusting. I have some scars from their attempts, but nothing I’d consider major because I was so ugly to begin with, you see.

    Now, at forty freaking years old, I’m apparently still so ugly that guys 10+ years younger than me, who ought to not give two shits what a 40 year old woman looks like, take it upon themselves to remind me one more time, that I am so very, very ugly.

    Well thank you. Thank you all for the reminder.

    …and the next time you think a >7 is being “uppity” because she doesn’t want to sleep with you or is suspicious of your motives, just remember me.

    Maybe it’s not that you’ve overqualified yourself. Maybe it’s that you are doing fuck all to distinguish yourself from the insects milling around her heels since childhood, telling her that she’s ugly.

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  194. on June 24, 2010 at 3:04 am Gorbachev

    @JJ
    @ Gorbachev
    “About 15% of the women I’ve been with have asked to be choked or asphyxiated in some manner. To quote, “It’s like an orgasm magnifier”. ”
    Ah, the antics in the monkey house get stranger all the time. Didn’t David Carradine teach us anything?

    I’m not into it. Not my speed. But some women are.

    “lso, at least 30% have wanted what amounts to physical abuse during sex. These are otherwise normal women.
    The boring-looking ones are usually the strangest.”
    Wow.

    Again, not my speed. Guys get some pretty odd requests form women. You should ask around.

    More than half had pretty hard rape/anonymous sex fantasies that have been enacted to extreme gratitude.
    And more wow. Swept away is one thing, but rape?

    Rape fantasies are so common so as to be almost universal. If I had a dollar for every woman who had one. Anonymous sex fantasies, too.

    Have a chat with your sisters.

    “oherwise good, clean women who go insane when called sluts or whores.”
    See, I’d go insane too. And by insane, I mean a good, clean kick to the nuts.

    You miss the kicker here: Female-Initiated.

    As a male, I get to sample the other side of the equation. After a while, things just stop surprising you.

    Ask your fellow females what turns them on in their darkest hours.

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  195. on June 24, 2010 at 3:06 am Gorbachev

    @JJ.

    Just because a woman wants to be restrained, doesn’t mean the man wants to forcibly restrain her.

    In my experience, almost all bondage/rape fantasy/bad girl scenarios/sexual dominance play are initiated and extrapolated by females. And a shockingly large proportion of them have interesting fantasies.

    You seem incredulous. Go and check out your fellow women.

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  196. on June 24, 2010 at 3:18 am Gorbachev

    @J
    @ Gorbachev at 3:48
    Glad to hear that you are going in the opposite direction from xsplat. In my 23rd year of fidelity to the same guy, I’d say that my personal regard for him is the biggest contributing factor to it, not game.

    I respect the way you live; I had aspired to it, BTW.

    And this means you’ve likely not been gamed. My reaction: Good for you. But some game dude could at some point have tempted you, trust me. Not all of them. But some guy could have. There are all kinds.

    I thank God, I’m not dating now.

    For a conservative guy, it’s actually a bit of a nightmare, now.

    For a liberal (even beta) guy, it’s actually worse.

    Female hypergamy forces us to play games, alas.

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  197. on June 24, 2010 at 3:23 am Gorbachev

    @J
    @Gorbachev
    “Women are supposed to be able to engage the most basic desires they have without consequence (like men are freer to do these days). Feminism tells them so. Be Free!”

    I fully agree that this is a bad strategy for women and have said so elsewhere. OTOH, men do love a slut. At least in the short term, sluts can get a lot of support from some men. There are even some evo-psych theorists who say that sluttery is a workable survival strategy “in the wild” because many baby-daddies make it easier to gather resources from a variety of males.

    Men love sluts because the sluts give them sex, and they’re usually good at it. I like my women, for example, to have experience and enthusiasm. This isn’t slutty in and of itself, but sluts have this in spades, to be sure. But I’m not under illusions.

    Sluttery is a very workable survival strategy, actually.

    But, in general, slutitude is not a great idea for women.

    Feminism truly has liberated women to be sluts, and has allowed men to treat them as such.

    What stuns me is the sense of entitlement: Suddenly, when it’s time to settle down, it’s time for men to treat the same women differently. Er, … what?

    And then they presume to judge men for having higher standards.

    The women made the mistake: Mens’ choices in sexual partners, and their choices in mates. They’re not necessarily the same.

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  198. on June 24, 2010 at 3:31 am Gorbachev

    @J

    @Gorbachev–

    “Women ride the cock carousel because they’re horny like bonobos. Not indiscriminately horny; horny for alpha cock.”

    Well, that’s the theory, I know. And while I have seen the phenomenon, but I don’t think it’s universal. I know many women, myself included, who aren’t tempted by alphas. And I really think it’s related to introversion, intuition and thinking. INTs tend to stand outside the monkey house in detached bemusement, looking stuch up and condescending. Or let me put it in PUA-speak. We are the female equivalent of Vox Day style sigmas.

    There are lots of personality types. Don’t forget the 10-25% of women (and men) who are just much less interested in sex, and are much less sexual, than the rest of the population. Or the ones who are utterly obsessed with it, the nymphomaniacs, or the ones who have huge social adjustment problems. It all gets worked out somehow, and it changes the way people behave psycho-sexually.

    “The sight of thousands of young girls going gaga for some rock star is the perfect symbol for this. Each one would gladly let a rock star rip into her and dump her without a second thought.”

    There are certainly enough girls like that to make game a valid strategy for guys who need it.

    All guys need it. There are a lucky few who stumble onto a woman who doesn’t cue to these signals, but these women are very few and far between.

    But it’s like your comments on another thread about superstitution/intermittent reinforcement. The positive reaction of some women to aplha or alpha-wannabe behavior makes game worthwhile because guys get to score with the girls to whom it appeals. You don’t see the rest of the girls; they are home crying into their pillows about how guys only like sluts.

    Hm. Too bad we don’t a pre-sorting method to stamp and label us so we don’t improperly mix and match.

    Case in point: Super-hot French woman, extremely flirtatious because men respond to it. Stunning dresser (of course). But: In bed, admits that she detests sex. And she’s had good lovers. Just not into it. Not frigid, just not interested. She married a fellow who was also not into it. 8 years into a marriage, she almost absent-mindedly tries sex outside her marriage, to see if she was right. She decides she was. Because she and her husband have sex maybe once every six months.

    Imagine if she’d married another kind of guy. Or her husband.


    “People would be surprised how much of our supposed conscious behavior is hormonal and biological.”

    Yeah, progersterone and oxytocin from pregnancy,childbirth and breastfeeding made their mark on me.

    A lot of behavior isn’t actually conscious. Our mind just rationalizes it.

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  199. on June 24, 2010 at 3:51 am Gorbachev

    @Nicole
    Gorbachev says, “Of course. But I’m interested in actually sleeping with women. Not just being their best friends. And finding a good mate requires engaging some of these rather frustrating, unselfaware ladies.”

    What is a “good mate” to you?

    The easiest way out of the friend zone is not to get into it in the first place. You don’t have to “engage” women who aren’t interested in you if your cards are on the table from the beginning. That’s called courtship. You express your interest in a real relationship, and take some time to see if she’s worthy of you. You don’t have to shag a woman just because you’ve seduced her.

    Um, … this is not how actual relationships start or work. Really, with all due respect, I’ve never seen one that started this rationally.

    Put all your cards on the table all the time and you rarely get any attention, trust me. I’m a guy.

    There is the option of seducing her, taking some time to check her out, planting your flag, and then shagging her.

    Just a thought.

    I understand. But shagging is a pretty-much sine qua non of seduction, as all seduction is meant to go there, at some point. Also, not to put too fine a point on it, I like sex.

    “The women living in the truth are thin on the ground.”

    Women living in truth have always been rare. Women are natural relativists. It’s what keeps us from killing most of our babies who are born due to raiding parties, wars, and premarital sex. It’s what drives us to kill our babies when the culture is patently against us having them, or favors one gender over another.
    As a group, we can kill our babies. There’s even an African cautionary tale about spousal abuse in which the women decided to kill all the babies until the men started to treat them better.

    Hey. Where can I read that story? That’s a good one.

    You want to start requiring us to be less flaky and relativist, you have to not be flaky and relativist to accomplish it. Women are only non flaky and honorable when they have honorable, non flaky parents enforcing that. It damned sure takes a dad to do the enforcing.

    Men are just responding to women. I don’t think you see the true scope and scale of how women have changed.

    It does take a Dad. But men aren’t allowed to be actual Dads any more. You really do need to complain to feminists. They wont’ admit their ideologies’ culpability, but you need to explain the consequences. Then listen to the rationalizations, and then you’ll realize they’re simply dismissing your concerns. And eventually you’ll realize that they’re doing this because they’re both self-deluding and profoundly irresponsible and carry an attitude of entitlement.

    And the men aren’t the problem, any more.

    “But the mating game is just that: a mating game. And I can’t deny the raw truth of my sexual attraction to attractive women. It’s crippling in a way: I can’t find some women attractive. BTW, I’ve tried. It’s led to disappointment on both sides”

    As I’ve said, I’m not telling anyone to settle or force themselves into a relationship with someone they’re not attracted to. I’m just saying that there are consequences for one’s actions.

    And we need to cope with the women we choose. So we do.

    If a woman likes bad boys then she has to understand there’s a price to pay for that. Bad boys who treat their woman with respect are very rare, and usually connected to the mafia or some other organized group that has a kind of culture of accountability. Thumping on a connected woman would be a bad idea (though it does happen).

    Bad boys in some kind of social structure, like the Mafia, do usually operate on a code of some kind that women can use.

    But the women who like bad boys don’t even know why they like bad boys.

    Generally though, malignant narcissists don’t play favorites. They just have people who are more or less convenient to be nice to. So a woman who likes that type should understand they come with an obligation to tolerate abuse.

    No: women generally feel entitled to what they want but not required to endure the consequences. All women are like this. Feminism, for example:
    1) Blame men for oppression
    2) Reform. Blame men for resisting.
    3) Observe social effects. Blame men for not contributing.
    4) Acquire power. Blame men for surrendering it.
    5) Be unhappy with the results. Blame men for acquiescing to their demands.

    This is how the script has played out.

    There’s just no accountability, and lots of rationalization and obfuscation.

    If a guy can only get it up for 8+, then he has to understand that this comes with the price of every other guy she encounters trying to shag her until she’s old. That can do things to a woman’s mind, and anyone who dates her has to be prepared for high maintenance, and never being able to be human around her.

    But for men, this is true. You can’t really get it up for women if you go too far down that scale. It’s not a choice.

    We’re programmed. I can’t simply choose to be attracted to a 3 or a 4. I can do it, but there’s no sexual response.

    Men are physically hard-wired.

    Of course we accept responsibility. Our complaints are addressed to managing the women we need to choose.

    If you follow the normal pattern, it probably won’t take but a few years before you miraculously start being turned on by less hot women. It’s pavlovian. By then though, you’ll have a couple of kids, and it’ll be too late to get out without paying.

    But this could happen anyway, unless you choose a woman who has fewer options or has great moral character. The second are extremely rare, and *usually* but not always are simple women with fewer options.

    See, budding PUA’s often see scoring the hot chick like women see the wedding. They don’t think about what’s going to happen after the big event.

    The truth is, when I was in my crazy times, what seemed like a train of pointless sex and hot women was an exciting liberation. It gets less so, but never completely loses its allure. This is true for most men. That’s just a fact of life.

    Don’t get me wrong. I think it’s a good learning experience, and some guys do land the rare, elusive unicorn. However, the vast majority don’t. You might be the exception, but just sleep with one eye open until she’s 40.

    You betcha.

    “No less to blame. But, I would like to point out, no more, either.”
    Perhaps, but since men are the enforcement arm of a civilization, as they say, “He who does the work, gets the blame.”

    Men have been gelded. In civilizational terms. Women wanted this. We obliged. We were hardly going to put them in prisons.

    Complain to the sisters. They don’t want men to be men. They work tirelessly to make sure we can’t be. Look at our laws.

    If I find myself in a situation where my coworkers are being irresponsible, and I’m getting the blame, and I can’t change them, I change companies.

    Yes, … I could, for example, decide to be another species, or maybe live in another country. If I wanted to, sure, but the reach of this pernicious brand of feminism is far.

    “I think you’re pedestalizing men. That’s actually quite interesting.”
    I have a fantastic dad, an awesome albeit now platonic husband, two kick ass brothers, and some phenomenal male friends. I know what a good man is, and that it is possible to be a good, successful one despite the world being a screwy place.

    But you’d end up being celibate for a long time.

    Not a good option.

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  200. on June 24, 2010 at 3:59 am Gorbachev

    @dalrock
    @Gorbachev
    At this point in my life, by the way, my sample size approaches scientifically valid levels.

    Great sentence. Are we talking T or Z statistics?

    That would be Z. Um. Probably not good to go into that discussion.

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  201. on June 24, 2010 at 9:02 am Anonymous

    @Original JB

    “The worst PU experiences I’ve had were with T type women. ”

    This doesn’t suprise me. I think the key is that we are thinkers not feelers. We have tingles, but we don’t immediately act them. We ask ourselves, “Is this feeling good? Can I trust it?’ I really do think that makes INTx women hard to game.

    “I’m an INTJ myself”

    I’m an INTP, married to an INTJ.

    “they are just not friendly at all and repel me even if cute. ”

    We come off unfriendly, but we are just slow to warm up. We leas with our heads, not our hearts. BUt when an INT loves you, they really love you and is very passionate and loyal. It’s just hard to get there, and I don’t think game will get you there.

    Fortunately I’ve learned to recognize them and avoid wasting time during pick up.

    “INTs make better wives than pick-ups.”

    “Male NTs + Female NFs ftw! That works wonderfully.”

    If you believe that opposites attract–which the Myers-Briggs folks do. OTOH, I’m closing in on 21 years of happy, faithful marriage.

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  202. on June 24, 2010 at 9:13 am narciso babaero

    gorbachev —

    About 15% of the women I’ve been with have asked to be choked or asphyxiated in some manner. To quote, “It’s like an orgasm magnifier”. I presume it’s the lack of oxygen.

    haha bro, a solid majority of women would love this. a very, very solid majority.

    note that 15% of them wanted it so bad that they ASKED for it.

    do you realize how much of a Fucking Big Deal that is?

    consider:
    (a) they asked you to do it
    (b) it’s choking

    these are two completely incongruent actions — (a) taking/acknowledging requests is decidedly not alpha, (b) clearly alpha.
    this means that these 15% of women wanted to be choked SO BAD that they were willing to sacrifice the holy grail of congruence to get it.

    if that’s the case, think how many of the other 85% want it bad, but just want to wait for someone who’ll do it by his damn self, without having to be asked.
    hint: perilously close to 85 out of 85.

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  203. on June 24, 2010 at 9:13 am J

    @ Dalrock

    “Probably a good think you told the vet no. After reading this blog for a few months, I think I have a pretty good idea how it would have went: Player Vet: “Does puppy have a daddy?” J (giggles, twirls hair): “It’s complicated.”
    Player Vet: “Wanna be my bitch?” I hope you know I’m teasing.”

    I do.

    Generally, I just give guys like this a light and breezy or witty reply. One that says, “Thanks for the compliment, but I’m taken.” Most stop there so I don’t need to escalate, but what the hell makes men ignore the f’in ring?!

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  204. on June 24, 2010 at 9:21 am J

    @Badger Nation

    “Ryan probably has no interest in the “OK” girls because most young American women, regardless of looks, are entitled and unpleasant to be around. One would think homely women would make up for it by having an enjoyable personality – not a doormat, but a pleasant, non-demanding person.”

    Oh right, because men really value a woman’s personality over her looks. Read your colleagues here. When I’ve suggested that trade off, I’ve been told, even by the most rational of you, that it’s a dick thing. No erection, no relationship. Lots of unhappy, bitter people. This is what happens when we live by monkey house rules.

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  205. on June 24, 2010 at 9:32 am J

    @ Nicole

    “The okay girls who aren’t following the herd and trying to screw all the jocks in school get picked on and harassed or ignored. I don’t know what planet you grew up on, but down here on earth, we tend to spend our high school years being shit on”

    Ah high school, the good old days. I remember them fondly. Even your looks won’t get you through if you aren’t one of the sheeple.

    I thank God that by college I had figured out my demographic and learned how to work it. Otherwise, I’d have probably killed myself.

    I’ve worked in high schools and have kids in high school. It never changes. New decade, same a-holes.

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  206. on June 24, 2010 at 10:07 am J

    @Name

    “intx’s require a lot less physical effort, since multiple venue changes / time distortion can be accomplished purely inside their heads.” ROFLMAO.

    It cracked me up too. If I had a nickel for everyone who has accused me of living inside my own head…

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  207. on June 24, 2010 at 10:21 am namae nanka

    “Attractive young women have it in their power to kill the spread of Game-PUArtistry in its tracks. All they need to do is treat would be “Players” like lets-just-be-friends and eagerly and openly spread their sweet thighs for stable-nice guys.”

    That’s like saying that men have it in their power to kill the porn industry if they just stopped having boners at nude chicks.

    Men’s scenario is actually plausible.

    “We are the female equivalent of Vox Day style sigmas”

    haha

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  208. on June 24, 2010 at 10:36 am Nicole

    Narciso, fantasy is fantasy. In practical application, any potentially injurious or fatal activity cannot be done in the true heat of passion. A Dominant must first have dominance over him/herself before they’re qualified to dominate others.

    You have to be able to do things that will allow the submissive or less aggressive at the moment partner to have pleasure (which may include pain) without getting caught up in it yourself.

    You also have to make sure that what you’re doing is consensual. People may dream about many things, but when they happen in real life it isn’t what they really want.

    As far as choking and asphyxiation, it’s not something you should do unless you really know what you’re doing and you have the partner’s consent. Cutting off someone’s air even for a short time can cause injury. Pressing the wrong place is also going to cut off blood flow to the brain. Pressing too hard can injure the muscles and ligaments in the neck, or crush their windpipe.

    Sometimes guys don’t realize their own strength, or understand the delicacy of a woman’s neck.

    So I recommend play-choking, not real choking, for the untrained and uncertain. In other words, if you’re not a doctor or a martial artist with experience choking people, gingerly holding the neck is enough to do the job for women who fantasize about this, but aren’t hard core fetishists.

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  209. on June 24, 2010 at 10:53 am biktopia

    Ps, i soo don’t want to be play choked,,,brrr keep your hands of the neck until proven otherwise, not everybody wants it.

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  210. on June 24, 2010 at 10:57 am J

    @ Gorbachev

    “Ask your fellow females what turns them on in their darkest hours.”

    Female discussion frequently includes sex, so I know the predilections of most of my friends. I think we travel in very different circles. Our mileage does vary–which is not to say I don’t believe that you are being truthful about your experiences. I just want you know that some people live differently.”

    “I respect the way you live; I had aspired to it, BTW.”

    Thanks, it’s hard work, but it’s worth it. Jabberwocky accused me of living a TV sitcom life, but that is far different from what either me or the husband grew up with. If I can now be confused with June Cleaver, then good for me…and even better for my kids.

    I’m sorry that your marriage didn’t work out and hope things work out well with your new flame. A caveat if you are in it for the long run. I knew my husband was the one because we weren’t playing games. I wasn’t having the anxiety of being constantly kept on my toes or the dizzying ups and downs of infatuation. I just felt good when I was with him. You quoted PCG as saying, “I don’t think you are good for me.” To me, that’s a red flag. It may be thrilling to be pushed up against a wall and kissed hard, but it’s dessert not a nutritious meal. If you want the sort of life I have,not that I am saying you should–I’m responding to your former aspirations, you’ll probably need to be less gamy.

    “And this means you’ve likely not been gamed. My reaction: Good for you. But some game dude could at some point have tempted you, trust me. Not all of them. But some guy could have. There are all kinds.”

    You have more faith in game than most people have in God.

    “Female hypergamy forces us to play games, alas.”

    All I can say is what I tried to tell, RV. Don’t allow conditions to dictate to you. Be proactive, not reactive.

    Look, this is from Vox Day site. It pretty much describes my husband.

    “Sigmas:The outsiders who don’t play the social game and manage to win at it anyhow. The alphas hate sigmas because they are the only men who don’t accept or at least acknowledge their social dominance. (NB: Alphas absolutely hate to be laughed at and a sigma can enrage an alpha by simply smiling at him.) Everyone else is vaguely confused by them. At the party, it’s the guy who stops by to say hello to a few friends accompanied by a tier one girl that no one has ever seen before. Sigmas often like women, but also tend to be contemptuous of them.” (I’m the one woman he doesn’t hold in contempt.)

    He doesn’t react to situations. He defines them. Think Captain Kirk and the Kobiyashu Maru test. If a woman has to put herself in the hands of a man–and having babies does make a woman vulnerable–then this is the guy whose hands she wants to be in. But you know this already, or you’d be slapping women.

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  211. on June 24, 2010 at 11:01 am J

    @Gorbachev

    “What stuns me is the sense of entitlement: Suddenly, when it’s time to settle down, it’s time for men to treat the same women differently. Er, … what? And then they presume to judge men for having higher standards.

    And yet, for every guy, with your complaint there’s a girl crying that she can’t find a guy because she’s not a slut.

    A tragic combination of missed connections….

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  212. on June 24, 2010 at 11:16 am J

    @ Gorbachev

    Me:At least in the short term, sluts can get a lot of support from some men. There are even some evo-psych theorists who say that sluttery is a workable survival strategy “in the wild” because many baby-daddies make it easier to gather resources from a variety of males.

    You:Men love sluts because the sluts give them sex, and they’re usually good at it.

    Me: Here’s the funny thing about the Christamas parade. Unless, they are running a prostitution ring at the hair salon, Angel probably was getting paid for flirtation, not sex. And the clientele, not men her age–all my age and older.

    Now this is a unisex salon, so this took nonsense place in front of mixed audience of spectators. Once, while Angel left the room to get supplies, the women were in hysterics. I joked that Angel liked these old farts because they all had nice, big, thick, juicy..wait for it…wallets. Even some of the guys laughed.

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  213. on June 24, 2010 at 11:26 am Timitz

    “A player can easily fall head over heels in love with a woman, and declare it from the rooftops. He just happens to do this with a lot of women, instead of just one.”

    I think it’s entirely possible to love more than one person, and why not share the love?

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  214. on June 24, 2010 at 11:56 am Anonymous

    Tom said: “if you look for an attractive guy who is into commitment , you are probably looking at high status beta , and he would probably fuck it up anyways, and so you will end up with the alpha dudes .

    alpha males doesnt like commitment

    and also if you are interacting with the people in this board , we all know what kind of guy you are attracted too , haha”

    Make no mistake – the number of guys on this board who say they can pull down ass regularly and those that actually do are two entirely different figures.

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  215. on June 24, 2010 at 12:33 pm Silver Fox

    Just uncovered an actual porn star on Match.com

    Originally a Playmate (not calendar girl, but extra issue: vixens, college girls, etc.); then Hustler, Club, now hardcore porn-star.

    Searched her cell # on google (not reverse search, just cut paste) and her name shows up on a random promo flyer archived; then her pics gallery, then her real/stage name in a porn-blog, then boom 50 porn fliks.

    Cell phone answers with her first name; same as blog

    She responded to me and will update where this goes; propbably wont bang her…but am sure she goes to hot parties, with mucho talent….

    That aint going to happen on a random PUA nite out ….all for $1.50/day.

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  216. on June 24, 2010 at 1:25 pm dalrock

    @J

    I’m saying that we may be asking women to wait too long for Prince Charming. The sweet girl at 20 looking for Mr. Right is going to get jaded waiting for him to settle down at 40. Are we seriously expecting 20 plus years of celibacy from women? Or, are we expecting her to marry a guy who is nearly old enough to be her father?

    Oh wait, some of you guys actually are.

    Actually you are saying many mutually exclusive things. Earlier on this thread you said:

    Would it help if I told you that as women mature they value stable guys more? It’s sad that they don’t realize earlier, but ir is true. It’s not just settling because they tire of the carousel ride. Their values usually actually change as they grow to undersand what’s important.

    So I pointed out that on another thread you said that while girls keep telling you they don’t want to get married, you are certain that they secretly do but just can’t find any interested betas.

    Both can’t be true. Either the women themselves are choosing to delay marriage to ride the carousel until they ‘mature’ and start looking for a beta to settle with (your assertion in quote #2 above, and Roissy’s assertion in general), or they don’t have a choice even though they insist they do (your assertion in quote #1).

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  217. on June 24, 2010 at 1:39 pm silver fag

    Silver Fox: Shut the fuck up you fag. Post her name grandpa. You are so full of shit it is hilarious. Go drink some prune juice.

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  218. on June 24, 2010 at 2:23 pm BDS

    @Silver Fox

    Agree with above. Your behavior seems sort of stalkerish. Actually boning 2 women out of 20 you went on dates with is a lousy close rate, and a $/bang ratio that is certainly nothing to brag about. I suspect the 1-10 ratings you give those you have been with are grossly overinflated. You seem to have a huge need to think people are impressed with you.

    Hmmm, what’s the word I’m looking for…

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  219. on June 24, 2010 at 3:44 pm anoukange

    “I’ve never met a chick who didn’t love a player.”

    –you don’t get out much, do you?

    Thursday-

    “A lot of chicks don’t like douchey, obvious game.”

    –exactly. Game shouldn’t read as game, or you suck at it, are too mechanical, or are poor at delivery.

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  220. on June 24, 2010 at 3:45 pm The Specimen

    @ Silver Fox

    Seriously bruh, how much is match paying you?

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  221. on June 24, 2010 at 4:00 pm anoukange

    Gorb-

    “People would be surprised how much of our supposed conscious behavior is hormonal and biological.”

    –too true. I’m a believer in cycles. Youth craves excitement, then we settle down a bit, then we crave excitement again…an so on. The key is to keep things dynamic, but comfortably so if possible.

    But yes, biology does come into it. As an example, I would have never predicted that I would feel at my sexual prime in my early thirties, because like most of you, I suspected my twenties were when I would “peak”. Not so…tis true what they say. The body changes, things are heightened more now somehow. The outside may get older, but the inside– at least for a window of years–becomes very “efficient” and “sensitive”. Maybe not for all women, but I’ll be damned if it hasn’t happened to me.

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  222. on June 24, 2010 at 4:03 pm Gorbachev

    @anoukange
    Thursday-

    “A lot of chicks don’t like douchey, obvious game.”

    –exactly. Game shouldn’t read as game, or you suck at it, are too mechanical, or are poor at delivery.

    The bets game is the invisible game. That’s always true.

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  223. on June 24, 2010 at 4:12 pm Gorbachev

    @anoukange
    Gorb-

    “People would be surprised how much of our supposed conscious behavior is hormonal and biological.”

    –too true. I’m a believer in cycles. Youth craves excitement, then we settle down a bit, then we crave excitement again…an so on. The key is to keep things dynamic, but comfortably so if possible.

    But yes, biology does come into it. As an example, I would have never predicted that I would feel at my sexual prime in my early thirties, because like most of you, I suspected my twenties were when I would “peak”. Not so…tis true what they say. The body changes, things are heightened more now somehow. The outside may get older, but the inside– at least for a window of years–becomes very “efficient” and “sensitive”. Maybe not for all women, but I’ll be damned if it hasn’t happened to me.

    I love women in their 29-34 period. I find that they’ve come into their own and have lost the annoying qualities of great youth but have acquired a power and forceful female sexuality that consumes me. A woman who knows how to seduce and who knows herself is a joy.

    But that’s just me.

    I may not be standard issue.

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  224. on June 24, 2010 at 5:37 pm xsplat

    Yes, Gorb, sexual primes come in cycles. I had a nasty low in my early thirties, and a surprising high in my early forties.

    I think general health has a lot to do with it. As does the health/youth/beauty/sexual prowess of your girl.

    I’m expecting a few more sexual primes.

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  225. on June 24, 2010 at 5:43 pm xsplat

    about choking “…if that’s the case, think how many of the other 85% want it bad,…”

    Even girls who will have an initial negative reaction will learn to love it. Same as a facial.

    There are lots of behaviors that just work.

    What’s funny for me to hear about is how some ex will have asked her new beau to try dominance tricks, and how it just doesn’t feel the same.

    Mua ha ha ha ha.

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  226. on June 24, 2010 at 5:45 pm xsplat

    Or how a previous lover tried even more serious dominance tricks, with barely a rise out of the girl.

    It’s as if these try hards believe the roles they are playing. No sense of humor.

    You ought to be able to pull your woman by the hair into the toilet and piss on her feet.

    Any woman.

    There is no girl built who doesn’t have attractiveness buttons for dominant behavior. Not one that gets wet for sex.

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  227. on June 24, 2010 at 6:09 pm xsplat

    Gorb: “Rape fantasies are so common so as to be almost universal. If I had a dollar for every woman who had one. Anonymous sex fantasies, too.”

    When kids play, a good proportion of play is role play. It’s impossible to explore all aspects of who you are unless you play pretend.

    Sex play also requires role play in order to be properly exploratory.

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  228. on June 24, 2010 at 6:11 pm tino

    “–exactly. Game shouldn’t read as game, or you suck at it, are too mechanical, or are poor at delivery.”

    Good point. This is why you need to practice a lot.

    Also, avoid canned openers that are in a lot of game books since there is a chance the girl(s) you are talking to have heard them before. Make up your own ones so that they are original.

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  229. on June 24, 2010 at 6:17 pm johnny five

    xsplat —
    yep, women crave dominance. i don’t see why men find this so difficult to understand.

    in fact, sexual dominance is just another trait on a continuum from -10 to 10; most women are happiest between about +4 and +8 on such alpha traits, in a long term relationship.
    the catch is that you have to be consistent — you can’t just be a pussyfooting milquetoast, with negative scores on the other traits, and suddenly go chris brown on her.

    —

    @gorbachev, “invisible game” just means that all of the sliders are set to the same (high) number.
    all of them, including the ones regarding body language, delivery, sexual leading, and sexual performance.

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  230. on June 24, 2010 at 6:27 pm xsplat

    the catch is that you have to be consistent — you can’t just be a pussyfooting milquetoast, with negative scores on the other traits, and suddenly go chris brown on her.

    I’d say consistency is not really it. You have to not take yourself seriously. It has to be funny and fun. As soon as you believe your own TV Drama, it’s not that fun anymore.

    A dominant man is above all funny.

    And then you can ramp it wayy up.

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  231. on June 24, 2010 at 6:30 pm xsplat

    The essence of dominance is to be soaked to the bone in Zen-like irony. Form is emptiness. You are deadly serious, but that doesn’t mean that it is all nothing but a game.

    You’ve got nothing, ultimately, to lose. It’s funny, because you laugh at it.

    And you don’t lose.

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  232. on June 24, 2010 at 6:40 pm sdaedalus

    Any chance of *ahem* a new blog post?

    Johnnyfive’s blog is great, but I am suffering withdrawal symptoms due to the absence of a Roissy post for June 23rd.

    LikeLike


  233. on June 25, 2010 at 5:24 am xsplat

    Unless I’m fucking, I don’t really like to kiss. Kissing isn’t a part of my seduction process, nor a part of foreplay.

    Unless there is penetration going on, I’m just not into it.

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  234. on June 25, 2010 at 6:26 am polymath

    Gorb,

    Coming late to this thread. But I know what you are thinking.

    And I know what else you are thinking, and the answer is, not interesting enough.

    LikeLike


  235. on June 25, 2010 at 7:09 am Anonymous

    @Rivelino:

    What I do is save the whole webpage into my USB, then I read it at work. It beats printing it out on a paper.

    LikeLike


  236. on June 25, 2010 at 1:07 pm J

    Anonymous at 9:02 at 6/24 is me.

    LikeLike


  237. on June 25, 2010 at 1:19 pm J

    @ Namae

    Me:”We are the female equivalent of Vox Day style sigmas”

    You: “haha”

    OK, Why?

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  238. on June 25, 2010 at 3:25 pm J

    Hey Dalrock,

    “Both can’t be true. Either the women themselves are choosing to delay marriage to ride the carousel until they ‘mature’ and start looking for a beta to settle with (your assertion in quote #2 above, and Roissy’s assertion in general), or they don’t have a choice even though they insist they do (your assertion in quote #1).”

    Actually they can both be true. The trouble is that they are both generalities and thus don’t tell the whole truth for all women at the same time. Think of two snapshots. Different and contradictory things make be happening in each of the photos, but that doesn’t mean that what is depicted in one picture or the other didn’t happen.

    Let me try to explain as much as I can without writing a book. Most girls reach puberty in their early teens. For most, this is the start of fantasies love, marriage, kids, etc. A lot can intervene between the onset of those fantasies and an actual marriage, but it appears to me that most women retain those fantasies. Some girls may want early marriage and kids. It used to be that this scenario was easily obtainable for many women. Before the pill, the Playboy philosphy (which BTW both predate and influenced second wave feminism), widespread college education for women, female careerism, feminism, etc., early marriage was the norm. Even women who wanted it all could do it all more or less simulaneoulsy (like Name did). But when was the last time you saw a university with married student housing?

    Things have changed. As careers became more open to women, more went to college to prepare for careers, not to get an “Mrs. degree” as it was once called. That means delaying marriage. Even women who do passionately want marriage (and I believe that’s still most) will assume that they will meet a good guy in the work world. Many of these concentrate gals on achievement, so they can get a good job where they think they will meet that high achieving guy whom they would have looked for whether or not they had a career. (Eg. I’ll go to law school and meet a guy there. OIf not I’ll meet him at firm. One day, we will have an office together. I’ll work part-time ,and our kids will play in the lobby. I know women for whom this has actually happened,)

    Either way, they believe they have plenty of time and can put off marriage until they are established in a career. Time passes in the meantime. A bright 19 year old may subcumb to that first love in college, but if it doesn’t last till she’s done with school, started that career, etc., she’s gonna meet a lot of guys before she’s married. Some of them may be alphas, some won’t. But if her first sexual experience doesn’t last a lifetime, she inevitably is going to have others. If they are bad experiences, some of those women are going to try to rationalize with, “Oh, no. I’m in control of my sex life. I’m sex positive. I wanted that to happen. I wear the slut badge with pride. Call me a slut, I like it.” I think that’s why many of the women who look like broken birds to me look like sluts to you. I see a lot of women convincing themselves of BS.

    As all this is happening, the guys also became more resistant to marriage. I know a lot of the men here blame the feminist movement, but I blame Hef. He was around before Gloria Steinem was. Before Gloria, Hef was telling guys to be playboys, not husbands. In the sixties, the pill made it possible for women to give into male demands because it alleiviated the fear of pregnancy. Couple that with, “But baby, how do I know you love me if you don’t prove it?” and more women felt the pressure to have sex without commitment. Feminism and easy abortion followed and added to the trend, but, as I recall how this all unfolded, the ball was already rolling . With the growth of the midldle class, more young men also started pursuing careers that were condusive to putting off marriage in a freer sexal environment. There was a time that nurse or treacher wife supported med or law school hubby until he graduated and it was her turn to stay home. Why should a guy marry in college or grad school, if he can get sex otherwise? And the guys also think they have all the time in the world.

    Granted, this creates an environment in which the alphas can flourish. They can attract more women than betas if for no other reason than they will go after them more readily. But that doesn’t mean that in an environment that was less commitment-phobic that they would be king. Unwillingness of “nice guys” to commit can also drive the “good girls” to settle for cheap thrills out of loneliness, frustration, or the belief that they will never find the right guy anyway. They aren’t going to stay celibate. And the more immature they are, the more likely they are to settle for that sort of nonsense since they are more hormonal (Yeah, Gorby, I know), have lower self-esteem, a weaker value system, less resistance to disappointment, etc.

    Essentially, single men and women are caught in a vicious circle where, as I’ve said before, there are a lot of bitter and unhappy people. It’s complicated and multi-factorial. And it probably also affects individual women differently.

    OK, now I’ve wriiten a book. I’m done for now, but I’m open to more questions. My stuff seems to sit forever in moderation, and the weekend is coming. I probably won’t get back to you again till Monday. Enjoy your weekend.

    J

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  239. on June 25, 2010 at 3:53 pm Original JB

    “Any chance of *ahem* a new blog post?”

    Let the guy finish his book for fuck’s sake.

    LikeLike


  240. on June 25, 2010 at 7:29 pm tino

    “Let the guy finish his book for fuck’s sake.”

    True.

    This sdaedalus bitch must not have a life.

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  241. on June 25, 2010 at 9:12 pm Jeffrey of Troy

    walawala:

    “Case study: younger girl, I use Mystery Method: number close, “when will I see you again?”.

    I set up a Day 2 “let’s meet for drinks”.

    She throws a curve….has her friend (our mutual friend) call me on her behalf to meet up.

    I blow it off.”

    No, friend-of-a-friend = social proof. Not a curve or a flake.

    “Then…I make the mistake of rewarding this flaking with another chance….

    Leads to another flake….”

    No, she did not flake. She OFFERED you social proof, you REJECTED it – thereby lowering your Sexual Market Value – and her attraction died. As esteemed American philsopher Homer J. Simpson put it, “D’oh!”

    “My game is good”

    No, it isn’t.

    LikeLike


  242. on June 26, 2010 at 5:28 pm sdaedalus

    @Original JB
    Any chance of *ahem* a new blog post?”

    Let the guy finish his book for fuck’s sake.

    I had forgotten about the book. Sorry. I panic about good blogs shutting down.

    @Tino
    This sdaedalus bitch must not have a life.

    You may well be right. I will refrain from pointing out, however, that I was not the one posting on this blog at 7.29 p.m. on a Friday night.

    LikeLike


  243. on June 26, 2010 at 11:53 pm Dilithium

    “I panic about good blogs shutting down.”

    Like this one? http://sdaedalus.wordpress.com/
    whose most recent post was dated June 22. How soon should we start to panic?

    LikeLike


  244. on June 27, 2010 at 12:02 am Weekend Link Fest – Summer is here edition « Seasons of Tumult and Discord

    […] Chateau: Breaking The Seal, Staying One Step Ahead Of Suspicious Women […]

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  245. on June 27, 2010 at 12:45 am sdaedalus

    @Dilithium

    The key thing is the regularity of posting prior to the hiatus.

    Ps: I would dispute the assumption it is a good blog.

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  246. on June 27, 2010 at 1:08 am Word Around the Campfire – the This One’s for You, Vox Day edition « Hidden Leaves

    […] Roissy: Breaking the Seal and Staying One Step Ahead of Suspicious Women […]

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  247. on June 27, 2010 at 6:02 am Linkage is Good for You: Best Foot Forward Edition (NSFW)

    […] – “Staying One Step Ahead of Suspicious Women“, “Chinese Women Toughest Girls to […]

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  248. on June 27, 2010 at 9:23 am Cuisine

    “He has lots of acquaintances, no close friends. The player tends to be a lone wolf. That doesn’t mean he lacks for golfing buddies. The same way he charms women, he can charm lots of people in his life. The key is that, in friendship as in romance, his affections run broad but not deep. If solid pals are hard to come by with this guy, consider yourself warned.”

    That is a red flag in a man or woman.

    LikeLike


  249. on June 27, 2010 at 10:03 am tino

    “You may well be right. I will refrain from pointing out, however, that I was not the one posting on this blog at 7.29 p.m. on a Friday night.”

    Boy, you are a really stupid bitch.

    I post from California, so this post was made at 4.29 PM PST. This site takes all posts and assigns them EST. In fact, I made that post while I was still at work.

    LikeLike


  250. on June 27, 2010 at 11:03 am sdaedalus

    That’s okay then so Tino, point clarified. But I’d appreciate if you could be less abusive. As far as I’m aware, I haven’t done anything to offend you.

    LikeLike


  251. on June 27, 2010 at 8:46 pm Gorbachev

    @J,

    As all this is happening, the guys also became more resistant to marriage. I know a lot of the men here blame the feminist movement, but I blame Hef. He was around before Gloria Steinem was. Before Gloria, Hef was telling guys to be playboys, not husbands. In the sixties, the pill made it possible for women to give into male demands because it alleiviated the fear of pregnancy. Couple that with, “But baby, how do I know you love me if you don’t prove it?” and more women felt the pressure to have sex without commitment.

    This applied to some men; but the majority, the vast majority, were still good, Marriage-mined Betas.

    What opened the door was feminism. Heff may have planted a suggestion, but Feminism made it possible.

    Note that Playboy never attacked the basic groundswell opinions of feminism, just a few particulars. Feminism made the alpha-cock carousel possible. It supercharges it every day.

    Feminism and easy abortion followed and added to the trend, but, as I recall how this all unfolded, the ball was already rolling.

    No the see had been planted. But the plant grew in the light of feminism.

    With the growth of the midldle class, more young men also started pursuing careers that were condusive to putting off marriage in a freer sexal environment. There was a time that nurse or treacher wife supported med or law school hubby until he graduated and it was her turn to stay home. Why should a guy marry in college or grad school, if he can get sex otherwise? And the guys also think they have all the time in the world.

    As men, we do. Women don’t. They’re the primary sufferers from this situation. And they’re the ones who have the hardest time admitting it.

    Granted, this creates an environment in which the alphas can flourish. They can attract more women than betas if for no other reason than they will go after them more readily. But that doesn’t mean that in an environment that was less commitment-phobic that they would be king. Unwillingness of “nice guys” to commit can also drive the “good girls” to settle for cheap thrills out of loneliness, frustration, or the belief that they will never find the right guy anyway.

    The Nice Guys have, and often still are, willing to settle. No, what’s happening to women is easy to see: Feminism pushes women to revere independence and self-expression. This is fine, but the result is what Men want: Lack of dependence. Why have a Man, if you just need them for their Penis once in a while?

    Take a good long look at the 18-28 set. They have casual sex like most people breathe. And the women are only sleeping with alpha males.

    Once again, 60% of the women are being serviced (in the raw-est sense of the word) by 10% of the males.

    The ultimate source for this isn’t Playboy. It’s obviously a fundamental change on the part of female attitudes.

    They aren’t going to stay celibate. And the more immature they are, the more likely they are to settle for that sort of nonsense since they are more hormonal (Yeah, Gorby, I know), have lower self-esteem, a weaker value system, less resistance to disappointment, etc.

    They’re not settling for this nonsense. They’re seeking it out.

    The Roissy rule: Women would rather have 5 minutes of Alpha than 5 years of Beta is true.

    In between the Alphas, more and more females on campuses are celibate. The beta males are as unsexed as ever.

    Your argument doesn’t bear close examination of the actors and the facts. Go out and take a look at these women.

    These are the mothers of the next generation. A good, long, hard look at them shows you what’s about.

    You still need to address their behavior. The men are purely reactors to this sad tale, not actors.

    LikeLike


  252. on June 28, 2010 at 9:51 pm Dating Book

    […] more from the original source: Staying One Step Ahead Of Suspicious Women « Citizen Renegade Share and […]

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  253. on June 29, 2010 at 11:31 pm J

    Hi Gorbachev–

    You know that when I said I blamed Hef, I was being somewhat flippant? Nonetheless, I do believe that “sexual liberation.” preceeded feminism by about a decade. My recollection of how this all unfolded–and remember that I’m older than you and actuully witnessed these social changes–is thus:

    1950’s-mid 1960’s-early marriage, shotgun marriages for girls who got pregnant beforehand, unmarried girls sent off to the home for unwed mothers to give birth to give up their babies, few women in college, those in college earning teaching or nursing degrees–as well as the highly coveted Mrs. degree, little divorce, women staying with drunk and abusive men due to social stigma and lack of economic options

    early to mid 60’s–pro-early marriage sentiment begins to change, less stigma around illegitimacy and divorce, more women in college studying a wider variety of subjects, Playboy mentality, James Bond becomes a male role model’ Betty Freidan is an obscure writer

    Mid to late 60’s–hippie movement, free love, flower power, Viet Nam War protests, sexual mores in a rapid state of flux, divorce laws becoming more liberal, pregnant girls begin keeping thier babies, the pill goes on the general market

    Early 70’s– Women’s movement emerges as one of the last liberation movements, feminism on college campuses embraced by women tired of taking the backseat while their boyfriends protest Vietnam War, college girls read Freidan, Germaine Greer and Ms. magazine

    Me:”And the guys also think they have all the time in the world.”

    You: “As men, we do. Women don’t.”

    Me: Not as much time as you think. Sperm quality does decline for men, though obviously not the way egg quality does. And, it’s a lot easier to ejaculate than it is to deal with a kid who only gets more taxing as it gets older. My husband was far more able physically and emotionally to bounce a baby on his knee in his early forties than he is to keep up with teenagers now. We love our sons, but it would have been easier earlier.

    LikeLike


  254. on June 30, 2010 at 12:00 am J

    @Gorbachev

    “The Nice Guys have, and often still are, willing to settle.”

    I’m not even sure that was true in my dating years. I recall a lot of first dates that included an interrogation about my desire to marry and have kids. Yes was always the wrong answer, so women would hem and haw around the topic. I personally, once I realized that the question was actually about the availabilty of free puss and not my hopes and dreams, began to end dates then and there. No loss.

    “what’s happening to women is easy to see: Feminism pushes women to revere independence and self-expression. This is fine, but the result is what Men want: Lack of dependence.”

    Again, my recollection differs. Sex without strings is what most men have ways wanted–at least at some point in their life. Back in the Pleistocene, I dealt with a lot of guys who weren’t offering marriage but sure wanted sex. And a lot of that was before feminism was a consideration, especially the more radical third wave femininsm of today. Hell, my mother could tell you stories, and she’s in her mid-80’s and certainly no feminist.

    “Take a good long look at the 18-28 set. They have casual sex like most people breathe. And the women are only sleeping with alpha males. Once again, 60% of the women are being serviced (in the raw-est sense of the word) by 10% of the males.”

    Where do those stats come from? Who defines alpha and beta?

    “The ultimate source for this isn’t Playboy. It’s obviously a fundamental change on the part of female attitudes.”

    It’s the result of many, wide-ranging social changes that may include feminism, but is not limited to it. As I said before: it’s a complicated, multi-factorial vicious circle. Certainly women attitudes paly a part in this but the desire for no strings attached sex is age old. Feminism may play into it, but it’s not the origin of it.

    “The Roissy rule: Women would rather have 5 minutes of Alpha than 5 years of Beta is true.”

    Proof?

    “In between the Alphas, more and more females on campuses are celibate. The beta males are as unsexed as ever.”

    Proof? Seriously, these are assertions that are commonly made on this blog but where’s the backing for them?

    LikeLike


  255. on June 30, 2010 at 12:20 am J

    @ Gorbachev–

    “You still need to address their behavior. The men are purely reactors to this sad tale, not actors.”

    I find it interesting that game is seen as as a way for the poor betas to even the score against the evil hypergamous women. At what point do men become proactive?

    I’ve said before that I regard integrity and the ability to act from a position of strength for the good of all concerned as highly attractive male virtues. If you guys are the moralists you all claim to be underneath it all and not just out for free sex, then sooner or later, you have to be proactive, not reactive. It’s a tremendous cop out (of the sort this blog likes to accuse women of taking) to paint yourselves as choiceless victims.

    [editor: who said anything about being choiceless victims? i routinely turn down advances from fat chicks, and opportunities to approach them.]

    LikeLike


  256. on June 30, 2010 at 12:38 am Ronin

    J

    ” Even women who do passionately want marriage (and I believe that’s still most)”

    J, i hear yah but as someone said a while back “Women want weddings but do not want to be wives.”

    LikeLike


  257. on June 30, 2010 at 9:38 am dalrock

    @J

    Some girls may want early marriage and kids. It used to be that this scenario was easily obtainable for many women.

    Some still do, and it still is. We are talking about the other 20-30% or so.

    LikeLike


  258. on June 30, 2010 at 12:42 pm Gorbachev

    @J,

    Hi Gorbachev–
    You know that when I said I blamed Hef, I was being somewhat flippant?

    I know what you were driving at. You were making a comment on the age.

    Mid to late 60′s–hippie movement, free love, flower power, Viet Nam War protests, sexual mores in a rapid state of flux,

    (decay)

    divorce laws becoming more liberal, pregnant girls begin keeping thier babies, the pill goes on the general market
    Early 70′s– Women’s movement emerges as one of the last liberation movements, feminism on college campuses embraced by women tired of taking the backseat while their boyfriends protest Vietnam War,

    I’m sure this wasn’t the reason.

    college girls read Freidan, Germaine Greer and Ms. magazine</I.

    Sounds more like it.


    Me:”And the guys also think they have all the time in the world.”

    You: “As men, we do. Women don’t.”

    Me: Not as much time as you think.

    Duh, I know that.

    But we have more time than women do, many times more time. We can effectively date and marry and have children with a woman 10-15 years younger than us. Women have a hard time managing children past the age of 35.

    My ex-wife is currently lamenting all over Facebook her lack of children. She could have had some with me, the ridiculously accommodating and supportive husband who helped her reach every goal she had and was the Chivalrous Man extraordinaire; but no, she left me and had a string of really bad boys, and then got left manless (or, quality-manless) and is now 35 going on 36 and debating artificial insemination and single motherhood in her 40’s.

    Hard facts: We men have more time, and it’s significant. If women are going to be led by their hormones they get to pay the price. We can do the same… for longer.

    My husband was far more able physically and emotionally to bounce a baby on his knee in his early forties than he is to keep up with teenagers now. We love our sons, but it would have been easier earlier.

    I didn’t say it was the best idea to do it after 40. But what the hell? In retrospect, things worked out pretty well for me.

    LikeLike


  259. on June 30, 2010 at 12:56 pm Gorbachev

    @J,
    J said on Staying One Step Ahead Of Suspicious Women
    June 30, 2010 at 12:00 am
    @Gorbachev

    “The Nice Guys have, and often still are, willing to settle.”

    I’m not even sure that was true in my dating years.

    So you were dating the nice guys?

    I recall a lot of first dates that included an interrogation about my desire to marry and have kids. Yes was always the wrong answer, so women would hem and haw around the topic. I personally, once I realized that the question was actually about the availabilty of free puss and not my hopes and dreams, began to end dates then and there. No loss.

    So you had the right filter. Good for you. See? It works.

    “what’s happening to women is easy to see: Feminism pushes women to revere independence and self-expression. This is fine, but the result is what Men want: Lack of dependence.”
    Again, my recollection differs. Sex without strings is what most men have ways wanted–at least at some point in their life. Back in the Pleistocene, I dealt with a lot of guys who weren’t offering marriage but sure wanted sex. And a lot of that was before feminism was a consideration, especially the more radical third wave femininsm of today. Hell, my mother could tell you stories, and she’s in her mid-80′s and certainly no feminist.

    Welcome to Humanity. Men want sex: That’s not the point. Women were better able to halt the thrill-seeking man in his tracks. Or at least put up a good defence. Now they just bang and go. They hook up like your generation’s Super Sluts, and dismiss the “Nice Guys” without a second thought.

    I’m not blaming them, but there’s no way anyone (public funds, public agencies, other people) should take the blame or responsibility for their desperate attempts to breed after the age of 35 when their riding days are over. Or care much at all.

    “Take a good long look at the 18-28 set. They have casual sex like most people breathe. And the women are only sleeping with alpha males. Once again, 60% of the women are being serviced (in the raw-est sense of the word) by 10% of the males.”

    Where do those stats come from? Who defines alpha and beta?

    Woman (I assume), spend some time on a college campus. Check out the media. Go out there and interact with 20-30 year-olds. And the stats are out there. They’ve been established over and over again, even on this blog.

    “The ultimate source for this isn’t Playboy. It’s obviously a fundamental change on the part of female attitudes.”
    It’s the result of many, wide-ranging social changes that may include feminism, but is not limited to it. As I said before: it’s a complicated, multi-factorial vicious circle. Certainly women attitudes paly a part in this but the desire for no strings attached sex is age old. Feminism may play into it, but it’s not the origin of it.

    Of course: But the women used to be more chaste and marriage-worthy.

    * All of this said: I’m confident enough in game to get married, if I want to, and not have my wife wander. This time. So I’m not one of these madonna-whore guys who wants to fuck whores but have their wives chaste. I want both at the same time: A whore for me, but chaste with other men. I never knew the answer. Game gives it to me.

    “The Roissy rule: Women would rather have 5 minutes of Alpha than 5 years of Beta is true.”

    Proof?

    Oh, please. This is an observation supported by the evidence of my whole fucking life and the lives of every man I know.

    By pointing this out I’m doing you a public service. There’s no obligation on me to spend 10 hours scribbling out the evidence for this. I make this assertion because it’s demonstrably true.

    “In between the Alphas, more and more females on campuses are celibate. The beta males are as unsexed as ever.”
    Proof? Seriously, these are assertions that are commonly made on this blog but where’s the backing for them?

    My whole life experience. I interact with, talk to, and fuck quite a few of these women. I listen to what they say.

    And no, they’re not “sluts”, by comparison. They’re just normal (attractive) women carrying on with their lives.

    If you want to see it in more evidence, go to the UK. There, people only seem to hook up and split up. Lots of attractive (relative term: this is the UK) women approach men and take them home, on the understanding that the men have to fuck off the next day.

    Whatever.

    LikeLike


  260. on June 30, 2010 at 2:32 pm Lily

    ““The Roissy rule: Women would rather have 5 minutes of Alpha than 5 years of Beta is true.”
    Proof?
    Oh, please. This is an observation supported by the evidence of my whole fucking life and the lives of every man I know.”
    My feeling is the women would most want 5 years with the alpha, but they’re settling for (or don’t find out till it’s too late) what they can get.

    I’m from the UK but I don’t know any of these women who take home men on the understanding that the men have to get lost the next morning. Maybe in Newcastle. But ‘traditionally’ a way people get together is groups of friends go to the pub, two people hook up and then they become an item or go out for a while and sometimes get married, we haven’t had the whole dating culture and rules as in the states. These days the hook ups don’t lead to relationships as much.

    LikeLike


  261. on June 30, 2010 at 3:31 pm J

    @ Ronin

    “J, i hear yah but as someone said a while back “Women want weddings but do not want to be wives”

    In my family, the wedding was for my parents; the marriage was for me.

    LikeLike


  262. on June 30, 2010 at 5:08 pm Doug1

    Lily, a lot of the stuff discussed here applies specifically to gen Y girls. 20 somethings basically. Or mostly to them, less to gen X. mid thirties to early 40s. Early 30s, where fall a bit debated I think. Maybe gen y. Idea is y are kids of post war baby boomers. x between boomers and their kids.

    A smaller but large amount of stuff here, but a larger percentage of commenter remarks than Roissy ones, applies to gen y guys, esp. when they’re betas. I.e. the idea that part of why perhaps a higher percentage are betas, or more beta so that they really can’t get casual or less than really committed sex if beta enough, is because they’ve been emasculated by schools and entertainment media and often family feminism, fully in swing for them, but less so x’s or esp. boomers, who only adopted after adults, and then generally only partly.

    LikeLike


  263. on June 30, 2010 at 5:12 pm Doug1

    Lily–

    I think you’d find that gen y Brit girls are in fact a whole lot sluttier and promiscuous than you think.

    Girls tend to only want to slut w/alphas. They’d like to get one who will also be loyal for long term committment too, but with so many sluts about that’s hard.

    There’s some evidence that Brit girls are even sluttier than American ones. THey tend to maybe not be as hard assed feminist as the more Jewish and feminist as a legal movement influenced American girls are.

    Though Britain seems to be ground zero for male submissive accepting cuckoldry. Which i predict will become a lot more common in Anglosphere hyper feminist and male emasculating countries.

    LikeLike


  264. on June 30, 2010 at 5:26 pm Lily

    @Doug
    Oh no disillusionment or rose tinted spectacles here, 20 something year girls in England are a lot more promiscuous than they were 10+ years ago.

    BTW there’s a lot of cuckoldry here too, it’s approx 10% though I don’t know how many of the fathers know and don’t say anything. It’s biological, women subconciously (or sometimes conciously) want their children with certain genes but often the men with those genes aren’t provider types. Though certainly in society here, a woman would be stigmatised if it came out that she had a child that wasn’t her husband’s, even if she didn’t cuckold him she’d be equally stigmatised if she gets pregnant by lover and leaves husband to either be with lover or raise the child on her own. Far far far more than a man who had a child by another woman.

    LikeLike


  265. on June 30, 2010 at 5:43 pm Nicole

    J, feminists have been hard at work socially destroying gender, and attempting to biologically destroy it for over 100 years. There was even opposition from secular humanists in 1916.

    Feminists were busy little bees. Reading this book, and considering when it was written, opened my eyes to many things I didn’t understand were connected.

    LikeLike


  266. on July 7, 2010 at 2:42 pm Name

    “@ Ronin

    “J, i hear yah but as someone said a while back “Women want weddings but do not want to be wives”

    In my family, the wedding was for my parents; the marriage was for me.”

    Ronin- Not ALL women want weddings, I’m living proof of that. And I’m not hideous, ugly, or deformed, so I probably would have made quite a lovely bride all done up. (Perhaps, my opinion would be different if my upbringing (economically) was different. But I wasn’t going to delay marriage just to save up enough $$$ for a half-day affair.

    J- I sure hope your parents paid for the wedding, if they wanted it that badly. If they didn’t, you’re very gracious to comply. That would have been the only possible incentive for me to comply with this type of social custom. You want to show off to all your friends and share the day with them when your child gets married, then you’re paying for it. Otherwise, it’s city hall, 20 minutes tops.

    LikeLike


  267. on July 14, 2010 at 6:10 pm Anonemos

    “This is wrong. *Phony* players who imagine they are Don Juan of the downtown declare their feelings of love right away. Actual players who know the score do no such thing. They know that women crave the challenge of winning a man’s affection. Direct game like this can work, but generally only in limited contexts, such as with women who aren’t especially hot. And players who advocate direct game usually revert to indirect game soon after the opener.”

    From what I’ve seen, there is truth to this. Real life “natural” players outside of the seduction community often come on very strong with the emotional stuff early. This is part of the MO that pimps use, BTW. Of course they combine it with bad boy behavior: “Baby I love you so much, I need you to hold these drugs for me so my PO doesn’t find them” type stuff.

    “Game” is designed by and for nerdy guys who have had serious trouble getting laid. Naturally confident bad boy types who have been good with women their whole lives can use different techniques than men who need to learn game from a book or seminars.

    That’s the whole problem with the “natural game” fad that was big a couple years ago in the PUA community. You can learn a lot from naturals, but you can’t just copy them exactly if you aren’t one.

    LikeLike



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