Roosh has a couple of funny — and educational — videos reenacting his pickup attempts and interactions with girls. He suggested a contest where people post videos (created via the xtranormal website) of their actual approaches.
Here’s one of mine. It’s a direct game nighttime approach on a girl who was giving me obvious flirty signals.
The fart wasn’t quite that loud in real life.
I don’t recommend cocky direct game unless the girl is throwing out blatant approach invitations.

love the t shirt
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is there a laugh track?
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LOL… outstanding
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Why didn’t you plow further?
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lol that shirt does own.
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That’s gold, Jerry. Gold.
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Well Chateau? Did you end up picking up on her? Or did you just leave on a funny high note?
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That was sooooooooooo funny!!!! Love the goodbye wave at the end. 😛
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LOL
That fucking achieved nothing.
So absurd, so funny.
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is that a batman outfit?
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so funny! can we please have more of these!
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OT: Meat wallet in full view…Pussy for hire
http://dealbreaker.com/2010/08/young-ambitious-female-mba-student-is-deadly-serious-about-soliciting-investment-banking-gig-via-casual-encounters/#more-26532
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SF:
She probably won’t even fuck the (beta) guy if he got her the job.
she is pretty much saying- give me a 150k+ job and maybe we can fuck afterwards.
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@ SF
That woman is a disaster waiting to happen… I’m guessing any person with any business sense at all would never even go near her.
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fucking lawyers.
shit- she looks like and sounds like it.
love that her power suit looks like a suit or armor.
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HAHAHHAHAH
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So many lawyer gals in DC. Noting the correlation between looks and IQ, there are a lot of stunning K-street lawyers. I wonder if those are the one’s R has issues with or the public interest types who want to change the world. And then there’s the neurotic, “shit I’ve wasted my looks and $100K on a worthless law degree” types too.
Anyway, I wonder if there’s a post script, I’ve seen that the “withdrawn offer” is pretty powerful where the guy just says, “oops, sorry for bothering you.”
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AJ:
Even the NPO lawyers are wack.
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Hilarious! That wave at the end is priceless.
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EvenEspecially, the NPO lawyers are wack.FIFY
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Funny vid, looking forward to moresuch.
How’d you make it, by the way?
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mad genius
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Cheers for sharing that Roosh site
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Lawyers.
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That was hilarious. I wish it could do her facial expression when you ragged on lawyers.
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That was adorable! Needs to be a regular series here.
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That was amusing. Shame that the pickup fell apart after she started the lawyer thread, but it is what it is.
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Ouch. I guess shows how important body language, tone, appearance is vs what you actually say. Cause this is entertaining but rather meaningless. So did you close?
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Eject! Eject! Eject!
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This is the second cartoon animation of that type we’ve seen. It’s very funny, it its way. You ought to post “Great Scene Of Game” from the movies using this software. The humor value would be worth the effort.
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In what sense of the word is this a “pickup”?
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I can’t wait for someone to start in with “Fart Game” analysis:
The key to Fart Game is the volume of the fart. The louder it is, the more it displays your masculine dominance. If you really want to ramp up the asshole game, turn your back and fart directly at her. When she looks down at your ass, say “Quit checking out my butt. I’m up here.”
Unlike volume, smell is a DLV since it suggests ill health. You need to reframe in this instance: “I’m trying to raise awareness about air pollution.”
However, if your diet is high enough in protein, your stench may be so pungent that she immediately passes out. In this case, you can safely carry her back to your place and fuck her. Because chicks are attracted to rapists, she’ll find you irresistible when she wakes up the next morning.
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lozzzllzozlzlzolzozlzl GBFM in his lzozoozlolzl zmoveie no buthex!!!!
object width=”480″ height=”385″>
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lolzlzlzolozlzlz!
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maurice,
I have to agree with you, my love.
GBFM’s video was hilarious.
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This is the greatest thing ever
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There’s so many things going on in this video… the head down in shame… beer is tasty… “im getting back to my friends”…. farting sound effect which i didn’t even know existed. Good stuff.
What’s great about these reenactments is that even normal conversations become very amusing.
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Roissy, You will probably like this post about “fat senstivity”.
http://tlabine246.wordpress.com/2010/08/19/cbs-missed-the-sensitivity-memo/
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Hilarious video btw. I like the way you look all sad and dissapointed on her being a lawyer. The fart was classic.
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So now we know how ” lzozoozlolzl ” is pronounced!
Judging by GBFM’s avatar in his video, I think he might actually be this guy:
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Sorry, the link is here —

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Roissy:
Gonna guess. After that, she followed you as a puppy, you did more teasing and the flirting started.
GBFM:
http://encyclopediadramatica.com/BitingBeaver
lolzzzololz
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I like how after she tells you she’s a lawyer, you look disappointed and pause for a long enough time to let her hamster wheel spin. Haha.
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Was the fart intentional or involuntary? Did the lawyer respond? Is it a non-verbal neg?
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Hmm. Roosh’s voice is not what I imagined.
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Chateau,
When I click on the tags at the bottom of the posts (e.g., “Goodbye America”, “sluts”, “girls”, etc.) while using my BlackBerry, it shows my links to all your other articles with the given tag. When I do it using the browser on my computers, it shows me links of articles not on your blog. Can you fix this, surely it is a bug?
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i feel you should check this out. right up your alley
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35300964/
tel aviv man accused of running his own harem
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Chateau’s video was pretty funny.
But the GBFM/Biting Beaver one is the trippiest thing I’ve ever seen.
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Wait a minute… the fart is what we girls use to get rid of creepy guys……
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there are technical limitations. it is very difficult to fart at exactly the right time.
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Sigh.I love Lego Roissy!
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@pupu
Not if you eat enough beans.
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LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This video is funny.
You wound up rejecting her!
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my contest entry
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http://www.xtranormal.com/watch/6960979/
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Where’s the actual “pick up” in this video?
You didn’t even get a number close.
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of course nobody is going to beat GBFM but here is my lame entry:
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http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn19336-wasps-punish-fake-fighters.html
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@ SF
I liked the neologisms in the comments on that MBA chick. Slore and whunt! LOLOL!
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AHE, not that bad! LOL! GBFM’s I could predict well ahead, yours had creative flair.
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AHE, nice DHV with the slave girls!
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I am watching the GBFM video in a coffee shop, laughing so hard that tears are coming out of my eyes.
The world demands a video to Three Cock Rule. Its the feel good hit of the summer.
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^^^^^^^^
“The world demands a video to Three Cock Rule. Its the feel good hit of the summer.”
lozlzzzozl
yah i have been in talks with some peoples to drop heavy beats on my rap lyrics to one cock rule and three cock rule lzolzlllzlzzl and bust sum new rhymes like tucker max and goldman sax
alhpa fucks and beta bucks
so empowered by goldman sax & tucker max
neoconning da world into epic debt
my anal virginity i shoulda kept
cause now i got dis law degree
and i am a chick turning thirty
and its just lotsa cats for me
cause da betas know my pussy is dirty
dey know that i had lotsa cocka in college
as i was bernakified filled with lsat knowledge
solving sudoko puzzles to qualify for goldman sacks
while jefefrson and homer rot away in teh library’s stacks
and now i’m werin’ short skrts to sell sub prime loans
servicing the top dog alpha mba making him groan
no kids no family for me
caus i’m epmowered — that’s what my cats tell me.
lzozozlzllzozl!
yah man feel free to use it all anywhere lzozlzolzzoz i thk the matrix post would be funny in digital animation:
http://greatbooksformen.wordpress.com/2010/05/27/i-can-show-you-the-way-neo-but-you-will-have-to-walk-it-zlozlzlzozzlozlzlzo/
alos one cock rule would rock as a animated rap:
OMG both of you betado9uches above are violating THE ONE COCK RULE!!!
You are alloowing chix to bring other COCKS into your mind lozlzlzzoz zlozllzl. The second a chick makes me think of another cock she is outta my house outta my mind or if she’s texting on a date which almost never happens because i almost never date i go “i gotta use the men’s room lzozlzl” and then i leave her with the bill. she can text her ten other cocks to comne over and pay for her drniks/dinner lzozlzlzllzlzlz and then,. after paying, they have full right to gizizizizizalizzz all over her lzozlz
“I’ve been seeing this girl for a year. We live together and I’ve still got hand.”
OMG lzozzlzll wtf are fuckity fucks doing with chix in your homes? lzozlzlzlz omg lozlzlzlzlzl looozers lzozlzlzlz1!! hzhzh
THEY VIOLATE THE ONE COCK RULE THEY ARE OUT! OUT!
OUT!
O U T OUT! lzozlzlzl
OMG lozlzlzozlozozolzl wft r u doing dating a chick 4 a yer did your dick fall off? Were yu chosen by Beernanke and given an award and medal to support today’s slutty slutt vampiressses cuckholders cockcutters?
sounds 2 me it is the latter as u have no cock lzozlzlzlzl lzzozl
and she made you think of another cock
fucktard haven’t u heard of the one cock rule?
hey roissy yo!! let’s teach these douches somethin ’bout nbein a man yo!
throw a beat over this way.
yo yo yo yo
yo yo yo
now hit it!
one cock rule one cock rule
i ain’t no beta fool i ain’t no beta tool
about another cock ya make me think
i’m gone, yo bitch,
let the betas buy yas yer next drink
one cock rule one cock rule
i ain’t no beats fool i ain’t no beta tool
over vampires and werewolfe you ginas all drool
letting their cocks touch your deep down stool
then you blame the betas in school
and transfer wealth for the bernanke gene pool
jonah goldberg sends our alphas 2 die on foreign shores
stuffing his face with dc pizza as they die in fiat wars
neocon womenz repeating butthexers lies in their mags
even after menopause and no need for da ragz
telling young chickas to lust after vampires
as they build their fiat empires
one cock rule one cock rule
i ain’t no fool i ain’t no tool
about another cock ya make me think
i’m gone, yo bitch,
let the betas buy yas yer next drink
let the betas pay to raise your bastard kids
let the betas sign teh fiat masters marriage contracts
theft in fiat inflation is hid
as they swing their bankrupting axe
i don’t care what last night u did,
ever since i kicked ya gina out, i been relaxed.
as they promote butthex across the land
ripping out fetuses from parenthood planned
as fathers form teh homes the neocons ban
the atalnatic authoresses just don’t undertsand
but when chix wakes up and her butt is sore
it’s not my fault no–it’s cause she’s a whore
as the fiat masters desoul women with butthex cock
teach them to transfer wealth with pre-teen strumpet rock
one cock rule one cock rule
i ain’t no fool i ain’t no tool
about another cock ya make me think
i’m gone, yo bitch,
let the betas buy yas yer next drink
womenz womenz bernanke took advanatge of you
you wasted your best years on vampires and werewolves
and now you cry your tears cause of your sore anus
stamp your little feet saying, “you betas must pay for this!!!”
and aging neocon women promoting butthexing vampires
teacxhing women to lust after the undead
as the neocons suck the western world dry
bankrupting it all,m enlsaving it debt
while selfish womenz at the atalnatic monthly
cry cry cry
cry cry cry
not for you or me
but for themselves
not for the 50,000,000 aborted souls
but for their dried up ginas and sore assholes
so many chances they had to marry a nice guy
but he left her dry
so whe butthexed with the asshole
and now see her cry
and wonder why
and transofrm the entire univeristy
into a program to further the fiat lie
to transfer wealth and wage war and death
to about fifty million more
and redefine fifty cocks in her ass as empowered
and not a whore
all together now!
lzozllzzl lozlzlz zlozozoz
lozlzl lzozozlz ozlzooz zlo9oo
lozlzlz ozlzoozl ozlzlzoz lzozlz zlzoz zlzozzlozlzozlo
one cock rule one cock rule
i ain’t no fool i ain’t no tool
about another cock ya make me think
i’m gone, yo bitch,
let the betas buy yas yer next drink
alreayd seen yer pink stink
bent ya over the sink
and howscomes the bankers southpark never does satarize
because everything is fair game–truth love honor–excpet for fiat butthexing lies.
all together now!
lzozllzzl lozlzlz zlozozoz
lozlzl lzozozlz ozlzooz zlo9oo
lozlzlz ozlzoozl ozlzlzoz lzozlz zlzoz zlzozzlozlzozlo
AND THREE COCK RULE:
^^^^ to the 24 for or so tardbetadouches who voted my “one cock rule” rap down
lozlzlzlzlozzllzlzlzlz
what do ya want?
a two cock rule rap?
or three cock rule?
three cock rule, three cock rule,
i’m a beta herb my own cock won’t do
i need a chick to cuckold me
i need a chick on me to pee
three cock rule, three cock rule,
i love being the greater fool
one cock in her mouth, one in her anus,
i keep mine in my pants,
and pay her bills and rent and fare for da bus.
so she can club and grind, on denim cocks dance.
three cock rule, three cock rule,
i treat my lady like a nice guy,
give her chivarly while with 2 others she doth lie,
three cock rule, three cock rule,
while your cock doth touch her stool,
i play videogames @ home in my single mom’s basement,
as teh fed fianance feminsits studies @ school,
teaching her to love and bail out the butthexers,
to persucte me 4 letting her live 4 free,
while she tickles drummer/druggie cock until it goes
splooge splooge splooge! tee hee tee hee!
three cock rule, three cock rule,
i’m the beta herb, teh cuckholded fool,
i respect her, keep my cock in my pants,
fund her with other cocks to dance.
lozlzlzlzl
or would u betaherbs prefer a five cock rule rap! omg i bet someofya would like dat! lzozl
lzozozozo
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Pupu wants Biting Beaver’s outfit in that video.
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gbfm always there to cheer the masses.
Maybe a little rap for equality?
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@old guy
“Not if you eat enough beans.”
yeah. that is true. but the problem is no longer how to explode at the right time but how to stop exploding for the rest of the time.
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AHE’s video has had a live movie adaptation played by Elizabeth Taylor and Richard Burton.
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pupu, just enough beans (not a lot), so you can muster the shaped IEF charge when needed. 😉
(IEF = improvised explosive fart)
PS Mayo may provide the right amount of ammunition (dependent on your intestinal fauna/flora)
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thank you, Morellaux,
all guys here should master that trick. IEF can be very charming.
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Really, pupu? Well, whatever makes your happy. I hope you are not trying to acquire a man-harem, you sneaky one!
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didnt know WAOVW
translated well
into imp
some subtext is lost
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yup, this dialog really happened on my last date.
she is currently ignoring my texts.
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why no commenting on your blog; that’s fogus
your calling her an asshole was valid: she was and is, a female asshole.
such charm, grace, consideration and poise for a special ed teacherette. No wonder they spend their days doped up on meds or bashing their heads against tree bark
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the more i watch this, the more i enjoy – especially the lawyer neg thrown.
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Gay or straight, fart game is hugely important because it’s wrapped up in very basic human psychology. The alpha male farts to show the other person (beta male / woman / child etc) that he’s the boss. It’s slightly politer than pissing on them. There’s direct dominance. There’s also the message that, I’m so alpha, I’m not embarrassed (see bad breath game, a close cousin). Besides, real men are allowed to smell (but not BO, interestingly enough).
BUT!! It’s essential that the fart be loud and that the farter not have the slightest flinch of embarrassment. I remember being in a college dining hall with a woman friend and, at the end of a sentence, I lifted my ass and farted loudly on her. It was heard by everyone and she made a huge fuss (“eewwww” etc). I acted as if nothing had happened and kept on talking. That’s the only way.
Fart game – not for herbs or betas.
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Is it my imagination, or has insulting women taken the place of picking them up here?
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Easy to idealize man.
Dificult to idealize woman they are not great at anything.
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For intance I just saw a couple guys mix cement out in the yard (no cement mixer just a hoe and a pile of dirt) and tile the whole side of my house on the outside and connecting to the next house so there is a nice ceramic walkway to get to backyard and backdoor area. They did it from dirt to tiled in under 3 hours. Pretty great shit. I was like fuck. That is pretty wild shit. Cost under 70 dollars. Great.
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I shouldn’t say yard I have a patio I guess it is all brick inlaid into cement for grip but I might go tiles with grip just for the fuck of it and because it would look tight. Go with some crazy ass blue color or something maybe marble.
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(BUT!! It’s essential that the fart be loud and that the farter not have the slightest flinch of embarrassment)i
As also said the fart should be slightly smelly but not too bad to suggest illness (thereby ruling out all Ireland’s Guinness drinkers).
Other rules:- the fart must be 100% deliberate. The man must precede the fart by (if sitting) tilting and lifting an ass cheek to allow the gas free escape or (if standing) shifting his weight onto one leg and lifting the other slightly. He must then return casually to his prior position.
He should NOT indulge in frat-boy shit like giggling or cheering – he’s not with his mates (although this should be done when farting with kids). He must keep eye contact with the woman, remain unsmiling and act as if nothing has happened. That is, he’s so alpha that he’s genuinely not embarrassed. It’s not good enough to pretend not to be embarrassed -he must actually not be embarrassed.
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Italics fail
😦
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in Eire, it’s not only common to fart during courtship, but the guarnteed SNL begins with punching a lass square in the mouth
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for weightlifters:
(“can squats cure cancer?”…”yes.”)
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@Alfalpha
“So now we know how ” lzozoozlolzl ” is pronounced!
Judging by GBFM’s avatar in his video, I think he might actually be this guy:”
The ultimate irony would be if GBFM turned out to be… Tucker Max.
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@Chris from Dublin
Irishwomen have absolutely no sense of humor about farts. I agree with you about the Guinness. What type of beer would you recommend for this purpose or is fart game best executed sober? I hope things ended happily for you and the lady in question.
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@fIREPOWER
lOL. other way round. when an Irish lass gets so enraged she throws her drink over you, you know you’re getting somewhere. It’s a normal part of the courting dance here. Our women are a feisty lot.
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in Eire, it’s not only common to fart during courtship, but the guarnteed SNL begins with punching a lass square in the mouth
@SD:
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@Tupac
I’m not sure why you put a reference to me above, over your video of the Blarney Stone.
The comment about red-socking a girl in the face was made by Firepower not me. If anyone tried this with me they would get a sharp kick in the nuts in return. I have exceptionally good reflexes and was the highest scoring forward (no, not in that sense) on my primary school soccer team.
Although I am Irish, I don’t engage in any blarney, I am a very matter of fact person with my feet on the ground and my tongue firmly in my cheek.
No disrespect intended to its red-footed proprietor(s) but I have withdrawn from commenting on this blog and am merely posting here to correct any misapprehension that may have been created by your reference to me.
I am of course always contactable at my own blog.
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@anplayer – that girl is one of my best friends. She knows that even mentioning my public farting is simply a waste of her time.
I’m a fag by the way and alpha farting is almost obligatory on the gay scene.
Re: Irish stereotypes – meh
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[…] Renegade: Virginity Is More Important To Men Than Women Would Admit and Pickup Reenactment Possibly related posts: (automatically generated)Locus of ControlLocus of Control and […]
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@Chris
That figures. The gay pubs were alwasy the smelliest when I was a student. My gay friend Sully, lord rest him, used to joke that you’d need a gas mask for the George on George’s Street at the best of times, and not just to protect from unwanted embraces.
@Tupac
I can confirm that SD does indeed hava kick like a mule, but her aim is poor, and being a pipsqueak she’d nearly hve to raise her foot above her head to make contact with my mighty crotch. The kneecaps have come in for some battering over the years, though.
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””’Firepower
in Eire, it’s not only common to fart during courtship, but the guarnteed SNL begins with punching a lass square in the mouth
”””
Actually once a achieve the matrix level of pussy and it is all just 1’s and 0’s you don’t have to punch them in the mouth anymore.
lol
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A Convent
Doesn’t
Count
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this is a suspicious claim:
NO Irish – man nor lass –
ever throws alcohol away
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@Firepower
That’s what I mean – you know you’re onto something when a girl’s hindbrain prevails over her national instincts.
By the way, I’ve graciously assented, on a whim, to SD’s request that I communicate to you the following:-
(a) Her extensive knowledge of pigtail pulling was hardly gleaned at a convent school
(b) It is true that she spent some time with the nuns, where she became familiar with the prevailing Catholic doctrine that all men were beasts and all women whores. However she subsequently parted ways with them after she began to question this doctrine (i.e. become annoying)
(c) It was a co-educational football team, and being small and fleet of foot she was well able to dodge tackles.
I can confirm most of the above, but I think she may be overestimating her fleetness of foot. She was so annoying as a child I’d susspect none of her classmates could be bothered running after her.
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sd as a fleet of foot Irish lassy at convent school conjures up images of those sturdy Gaelic ankles and thick calves so prized there
anplayer and I must pub together some day. we surely could find her a fella
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@Firepower
lol. She’s already tweeted me requesting I reply to your comment on her behalf. I dold her if she wanted an amanuensis she could go out and find it herself. With her personality, it might be easier to find than a fella. If you’ve read her blog, you;ll see what happened the last time I tried to find her a good man.
I agree with you on the leg thing (although SD’s are not the worst, there is certainly room for improvement). The Polish girls here, on the other hand….
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a.) see mate, “amanuensis” is a sexist, misandrist term.
what she needs is a “apersonuensis”
whats good for the goose, is good the gander-person.
b.) Polish girls are actually better. Many are real blonds whos only proclivity is to submissively roll over for anal when drunk – unlike irish girls who, the drunker they get, the more belligerent they become trying to smoke my cigars and issue slurred armwrestling challenges.
nastay.
C.) No, i have not read her blog…
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@Firepower
Not that it matters in the slightest, given that everyone is a god(dess) on the internet, but I do not have thick ankles or meaty calves.
@AnPlayer
You should be ashamed of yourself. I never asked you to be my whatever-you-call it or to indeed post anything on my behalf.
If I meet any Polish girls on my search for a Sane Man, I’ll send them in your direction, guys, so that I don’t have to suffer the indignity of having to compete with them.
PS: I don’t smoke either.
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@Firepower
I agree with you about te Polish girls. My main problem with Irishwomen is not the arm-wrestling, he smoking, the fat legs or the fake tan, but simply that, like liddle doggies, they NEVER STOP YAPPING. I bet all those DC lawyer chicks are of Irish origin.
What’s the accidental pregnancy rate among Polish girls btw? For personal reasons (I have an unusually hgh sperm count, these suckers are rampant, I am not kidding) I cant afford to take any risks in this regard.
@SD
In the nicest possible way,sweetie (‘cos I know your bark is worse than your bite) you might like to note yapping comment above.
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the rate is pretty high in ireland: Polish girls seek citizenship in the only country that sees e’en those walking beertubs with ovaries as respectable teetotalers. they’re all both Catholics, so meh.
Even though both these Catholic Cuties vigorously practice the Pope’s Anal Caveat, I’d stick with the Polskas – their racks are always larger compared to the ubiquitous Petite Irish Missy’s Guiness Widgets – plus you have their extra bounty to boobjob upon.
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@Firepower
Thanks for the warnin’. i’ve noted a reluctance on the part of Irish women to get pregnant by me of late, but of course the citizenship thing might override my pecuniary limitations and increasingly droopy chops.
I’ve thought about a vasectomy, but it’s hard for a guy to give up the fantasy of a family football team.
PS: out of the corner of my ear, coming in loud and clear by telepathy across a two hundred mile difference, I hear a little doggy cry “put I don’t even drink….”
PPS: wtsfj is the ‘anal caveat’ – sounds like something you’d find in a gay pre-nup (no offence Chris)
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that still
wont get me
to post on your blog
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@GetsAroundSoMuchHeCan’tRememberWhereHe’sBeen
that still
wont get me
to post on your blog
You’ve already posted on my blog you big eejit. At 5.59 Irish time on the 4th August to be exact (Emo Girl post). You wrote as follows:-
Eire is the perfect place to plan,
drink, smoke, fuck and fight
– i plan to retire there
And you said above you’d NEVER READ MY BLOG.
I now feel just as good as the little girl did at the end of this video:-
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none taken.
The precise definition you seek is The Pope’s Anal Caveat.
That is of course, the famous Catholic birthcontrol thing favored by Irish Girls and altar boys everywhere.
the reluctance on the part of Irish women to get pregnant by you lately is because they want what they see on tv, so now they want to be WAGs of Algerians, blacks and muslims. preferably unemployed ones too
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@Firepower
Like Irish dancing and Danny Boy, I think the anal caveat’s more of an Irish American thing. Most Irish girls these days are too drunk to impose any caveat at all. in my far off, 1990s youff, there was a tendency among nice middle class Irish girls to take off all their clothes, get into bed and NOT GO ANY FURTHER, maybe a quick stroke if one was extremely lucky, but once their virginity was (eventually) lost then so were their inhibitions. I’ll zxk the mothers of my children next time I meet them, but I’m not sure the anal caveat ever applied here. We didn’t know about oral sex until your President decided to illuminate us, growing up in Dublin a hair salon called Peter Marks advertised a wash & blow job for 10 pounds without any eyebrows being raised.
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@anplayer – none taken. I’m not just a douchebag, I’m a doucheFAG! We douchebags can laugh at ourselves real easy.
🙂
I infer that you’re Irish too, yes?
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@Chris from Dublin
Yep. I’m a Dub too.
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