In a complete inversion of conventional wisdom, it’s men who should be playing hard to get if they want to attract the opposite sex.
Women are more attracted to men whose feelings are unclear.
A study published in Psychological Science, a journal of the Association for Psychological Science, finds that a woman is more attracted to a man when she is uncertain about how much he likes her.
“Numerous popular books advise people not to display their affections too openly to a potential romantic partner and to instead appear choosy and selective,” the authors write. Women in this study made their decisions based on very little information on the men — but in a situation not unlike meeting someone on aninternet dating site, which is common these days. “When people first meet, it may be that popular dating advice is correct: Keeping people in the dark about how much we like them will increase how much they think about us and will pique their interest.”
The subject matter of this study has been discussed at the Chateau before, in this post. It perfectly validates much of what is written here, particularly the posts dealing with instilling dread in your lover to build a healthy relationship. The fact is that women, much more so than men, get turned on by inscrutable suitors. Women love love love men who keep them guessing. That hamster isn’t gonna spin by itself, you know. Inscrutable men are likely hitting women’s “pre-selection” and “sexy son” limbic buttons.
Suck-up credentialist therapists and marriage counselors hate these kinds of studies (and, by extension, real-world truth tellers such as yer ‘umble narrator) because it puts the lie to everything they know and believe. How would you feel if the meaning of your very existence was revealed for the shabby mountain of platitudinal shit it is?
I suspect some readers get the impression that the science guides my behavior. But that is not the case. I’ve spent my life experiencing women, observing women, learning about women and loving women. That is how I came to understand them. The science merely serves as a confirmation of what I can see with my eyes. But I like to post these studies because I know it gets under the skin of the haters. I can practically see their blood boiling and steam coming out of their ears.
It is an exquisite pleasure to reflect upon your enemies’ torment.
Yeah. This makes sense in general. But are there ever exceptions? For example, girls you’ve dated on and off briefly for a while but had other relationships get in the way etc…if aiming to reignite a flame with one of these types would you still pursue this strategy? This particular girls seems impervious to the aloof game or she’s just not that into me. meh.
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What ever women think works on us, works on them. That is a theme to rely upon, the projection.
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What about a guy that is choosy AND has a bedroom styled like a scene from Indiana Jones and the temple of doom? Win-Win!
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Just like trying to teach quantum physics to a 5th grader, keep the rationalization hamster spinning and confused…..
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bleh – women are like pet cats. leaving shit everywhere…incapable of cooking
but at least you get to fuck a pet woman
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So, there’s hope yet for the “her elbows are too pointy” internet stud squad.
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@Firepower
I don’t see why you can’t cook a pet cat…. oh nvm.
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Antagonizing trolls and haters is always fun. You can almost feel the seething heat and nerd rage coming through the screen.
Playing hard to get is how I recently got a random chick I met on a train to take me back to her place in DC within hours of meeting her. Rarely fails… good times.
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Suck it haters and trolls.
Like many of you here, I’ve got real life experience to back this up as well. I always slow roll the hot girls in my classes, which involves never talking to them or showing any interest outside of class, not adding them to facebook, etc… Then I pull the trigger when I see them at a bar. In fact, this method just payed off last weekend.
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yes, that technique works like kryptonite on women and always has. read madame bovary for a distillation of its psychology.
this technique works much less on men, or at least men who aren’t plagued by the disease known as one-itis. if a woman plays too much hard to get, a man ‘s interest will wane considerably and he will focus his energy on another target. this falls in line with “men choose the path of least resistance” when it comes to sex with women.
chi-town nailed it. projection, projection, projection. take everything women “think” works on men and use it on them. the key reason for this is simple:women are for the most part incapable of honest self assessment as to the motivations and wherewithal of their desires.
ergo, when they attempt to seduce men they are only capable of using techniques that would work at seducing themselves. they live inside their heads to the extreme and cannot take an objective view as to what makes men tick, so they resort to the only thing they know; whatever it is that works on them.
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This may be why, when you want to ditch a girl, the slow release torment method never works. You withdraw, pay no compliments, blow her off, and it backfires.
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roissy: “boy, those psychologists are idiots.”
Are you a Scientologist or something?
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theory’s all good, but this isn’t exactly groundbreaking… “You want what you can’t get”.
How about some tactics?
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My post lost all meaning because the parenthetical material about posting a link to a psychological journal supporting his views is missing.
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“Are you a Scientologist or something?”
Progressives endorse a significantly government-controlled economy. So did Nazis. Therefore progressives are Nazis.
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Priceless:
Suck-up credentialist therapists and marriage counselors hate these kinds of studies (and, by extension, real-world truth tellers such as yer ‘umble narrator) because it puts the lie to everything they know and believe. How would you feel if the meaning of your very existence was revealed for the shabby mountain of platitudinal shit it is?
Years ago I was involved with a gf who was into psychology and suggested that everyone benefits from a little therapy, so I agreed to attend a few session, to see what to make of it.
My therapist was a presentable 30-35 yo Jewish woman, maybe a 6/7, whom I learned was married to some shmoe who worked in a middle management position for Sony Music. I was an FOB working a shitty job and going to college.
Early on she asked my about my sex life and the situation with my gf – whom she had actually met – and who was a stunning Polish girl – a true 10. I told her I didn’t have anything to say about that, as everything was just peachy. Then I talked about a Hungarian, an Australian and a few German chics I was seeing up and down. She made some comment about me jeopardizing my relationship with the Polish girl, and fearing real intimacy, and that I would end with her leaving me and I’d be all alone. I remember smiling and saying:
“I can have any woman I want, why would I fear someone leaving me?”
She: (concerned) “What do you mean by that??”
Me: (steady gaze) “I mean exactly what I said, if I want a woman I can have her… any woman I’m interested in…”
She: (confused – quickly changed topic)
Next session, she had a mini skirt and boots on and was wearing lipstick for the first time. During the next session she put her boots up on a footstool, facing me, her legs 8 inches apart. I completely ignored her antics. Next session in passing she mentioned her husband having difficulties with his Japanese supervisor – i.e. her husband was beta. Two sessions later, her still dressing in mini skirts/boots, as I’m leaving, she gives me an article which she said she wants me to read. The article was about how some therapy CLIENTS get extremely attached to their opposite sex therapists, and form crushes on them, but that the therapist must never cross the line and give in to the clients passions – I laughed and laughed when I read it?!
I decided that therapy was not for me, and said goodbye the next session, on leaving I leaned over as if to give her a hug/kiss – then held out my hand to shake hers at the last second, leaving her making an unreciprocated ducky mouth, and blushing profusely…
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Wow, such a hard working hamster:
http://www.villagevoice.com/2011-02-09/news/dear-single-women-of-nyc-it-s-not-them-it-s-you/
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Original JB
Progressives endorse a significantly government-controlled economy. So did Nazis. Therefore progressives are Nazis.
Digressing from the thread topic, progressive ideology is pretty much the same as Nazi ideology for every group except white males. Every other group is taught racial pride and taught to hate the evil other race conspirators that are keeping them down, except the evil other race is Anglos, rather than Anglos and Jews, and, like the Nazis, progressives tend to be vegetarians, environmentalists, and occultists.
Of course one big difference is the self hatred. Very few Nazis were Jews, but nearly all progressives are white.
The ideology of “La Raza” is a direct rip off of Nazi/Fascist ideology, with Hispanics as Aryans, and Yankees as Jews, but there is a big difference in that the Nazi party was created by people who believed themselves to be Aryans, while La Raza was created by Democratic Party operatives who claimed to be Hispanics, but were in fact overwhelmingly Yankee or Jewish.
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last tango
He’s got a ton examples of tactics in the archives.
You want to seem hard to get because you have an abundance of hot girl interest in you, and know you can get the girls you want, so she has to prove herself to you if she wants to make the grade.
Social proof. Negging her i.e. playful dominant teasing her. Condescending to her somewhat, like you’re regarding her as a cute early teen niece or something.
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That Guy–
Great story.
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@that guy
the way that therapist behaved is not surprising. psychologists/psychiatrists/therapists are some of the most fucked up people you will ever meet. it’s like they go into their professions thinking that would help them fix themselves.
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itsme…
That truth is openly admitted by 2/3s of therapists.
Their own internal family dynamics are a fright.
—-
A slice of that was delightfully spoofed in “What About Bob?” with Richard Dreyfuss suffering Bill Murray until the bitter end. Simply delightful.
—-
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@ itsme
psychologists/psychiatrists/therapists are some of the most fucked up people you will ever meet.
Absolutely true in my experience. And the females are major sluts and attention whores….and crazy in bed.
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@ Toz
I can’t believe I actually finished that thing. What a joke.
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oh and sidenote: Rep. Lee from NY used to live in my building, just recently moved out. I bought my bar stools from him.
I’m bummed, he was my contact to get a tour of the capitol building.
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“I’m bummed, he was my contact to get a tour of the capitol building.”
edit: Where I would have attempted to piss somewhere inappropriate for those sorry fucks to deal with.
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“I suspect some readers get the impression that the science guides my behavior. But that is not the case. I’ve spent my life experiencing women, observing women, learning about women and loving women. That is how I came to understand them. The science merely serves as a confirmation of what I can see with my eyes. But I like to post these studies because I know it gets under the skin of the haters. I can practically see their blood boiling and steam coming out of their ears.”
You are wrong in this.
Science is not work done by indirect employees of the National Science Foundation. Science is not studies published in peer reviewed journals.
Science is the creation of generalizations from experimentation, filtered through rigorous self and peer criticism.
There may be some overlap between the “science” institutions and people doing actual science (particularly in the hard sciences), but that overlap is definitely no where close to 100%.
Science is precisely what you are doing.
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I disagree with Johnny Abacus and take Roissy’s side.
We cannot merely lean on science for the answers to everything, no matter how many repeated experiments are put together to prove a point. Especially when it leaks over to human behavior and “flirting.” How can science know our specific personality. It doesn’t make any sense to make everything black and white due to science.
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itsme: “psychologists/psychiatrists/therapists are some of the most fucked up people you will ever meet”
A lot of truth there. And a lot of them will admit to that privately. The joke “you have to be crazy to get into this industry” is only said in half jest amongst themselves.
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@blert
i know a family in which both the mother AND father are practicing psychologists. they’ve got two kids both under 10 years old. every single member of that family is in therapy….each has their own therapist! plus they have a marriage counselor.
well, at least they are helping put the kids of five other families through college.
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Life has some golden rules and this is one of them.
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Women also are subliminally attracted to a man who imposes a ‘cost’ upon her.
By being so arrogant as to presume self-superiority and compel her to wage an attention-getting campaign her psyche is stoked.
There is no woman born who doesn’t have a catalog of schemes for male attention.
Make her reach into her trick bag.
——-
If you would go back to the I Love Lucy sitcom you’ll see how time and again the entire episode revolves around Lucy’s endless drama-game — all to get Desi’s attention.
While funny, the dynamic worked forever and ever because it is exactly what spins through the mind of a slut on the hunt.
You will also note that Desi is always aloof and no matter how extreme the farce deliberately ignores Lucy/ doesn’t see her guile and otherwise is mentally drifting off — normally concerned about his next band gig.
It is worth study as a living demo of how to delightfully impose upon XX psyches until they are consumed with how they are going to manipulate you.
All too quickly they discover that ribald sex is going to have to be employed. When you’ve got a prospect wound up — she’ll break out the whole ‘tool-box.’
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@that guy
hilarious story!
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@Johnathon Manor
What he was saying is that what roissy is doing IS science. He looks at the evidence and comes up with a personal theory for it, and acts based on that theory. Game is a technology, passed on like most technologies through storytelling.
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How do I approach women, try to get their phone numbers, call them up to ask them out on dates, and still play hard to get at the same time?
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Just act like you’ve been there before and don’t take them seriously at all, ever, unless she’s got a gun pointed at you.
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@Trev don’t come off to needy, be a man whose got limited time, don’t text or limit your texting!!
I swear if you cut your texting and that FB out, you become more of a mystery and whatnot
The guy who is hard to get is the guy who has shit going on in his life and not sitting by the phone waiting every 5 minutes for the girls call
It’s all about being indifferent
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Trev, Allow me to introduce you to the Tao of Steve
1. Be Desireless
2. Be Excellent
3. Be Gone
There’s an excellent scene in the movie that discusses this very same thing. When he’s teaching his clueless buddy he tells him why he bores women, comparing it to chasing a cute little puppy or a fast as hell rabbit.
@ Toz
Come on man that garbage is 5 pages. These motherfuckers never get to the damn point. Fucking ramble on like they’re goddamn authors. Fuck that shit.
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“It’s all about being indifferent”
How can a guy who isn’t tall, good looking, or visibly rich afford that? Take a guy like Matt Bomer from the TV show White Collar. He can afford total indifference, because he’s got women approaching him. Approaching women and asking them for anything (like a phone number) is by definition an admission of need and lower status. Approaching is what lower status people do. High status people get approached, not the other way around.
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Trev, hehe, right. Ask for specifc lines, too )
My humble 2c, it’s kinda counter-intuitive, but to come off that way you actually need to escalate fast, not react to (fake) rejection, not take her srsly (but don’t cross the line to creep either). Thus you project the mentioned above “I can have any woman I want”.
But as far as what to actually say/do, I still struggle with the actual “pickup” phase, figuring what exactly I do right when I score. I think a lot of it has to do with internal state and the fact that way we actually look is a long way from what you see in a mirror (sometimes you think you’re the shit yet look like shit and vice versa). On the other hand don’t sweat it too much, it’s not entirely a numbers game, but still a lot like poker. You can get much better, but still will get shitty hands once in a while. Discussing details for years is just entertainment. Same as in poker, too, actually.
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This works if you (the guy) are of equal or higher value , or at least are percieved to be of higher value than the woman.
[Editor: A man can make himself appear to be higher value relative to the girl by playing hard to get. So it works for all men. But of course this doesn’t mean the man can sit back and wait for the women to come to him. He still has to bust a move.]
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This is fun. And it should be widely used:
http://idump4u.com/
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Roissy said: “Suck-up credentialist therapists and marriage counselors hate these kinds of studies (and, by extension, real-world truth tellers such as yer ‘umble narrator) because it puts the lie to everything they know and believe. How would you feel if the meaning of your very existence was revealed for the shabby mountain of platitudinal shit it is?”
Yeah! Like this? (Stuart Smalley, y’all… )
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“I’m a steady rollin man
I roll both night and day
I’m a hard workin man
have been for many long years, I know
And some cream puff’s usin my money
Oh well, babe, but that’ll never be no more
You can’t give your sweet woman
everything she wants in one time
You can’t give your sweet woman
everything she wants in one time
Well boys, she get ramblin in her brain
Hmmm some monkey man on her mind”
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James A. Donald said: “Digressing from the thread topic, progressive ideology is pretty much the same as Nazi ideology for every group except white males. Every other group is taught racial pride and taught to hate the evil other race conspirators that are keeping them down, except the evil other race is Anglos, rather than Anglos and Jews, and, like the Nazis, progressives tend to be vegetarians, environmentalists, and occultists.”
Well, the nazi ideology was a socialist one (just a nationalistic one, hence “National Socialist German Workers’ Party, instead of international like the Soviet one)… down deep left/liberals never met a totalitarian ideology they didn’t like (or, at least, secretly pine for), just give ’em a class/racial/religious enemy blame everything on and abuse.
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Good post roissy and something i agree entirely with. Let me give you an example..
I was talking with an ex the other night, shes a nice girl and we still hang out here and there, nothing sexual as we’re both in relationships.
One guy she went on about 5 dates with.. He was very into her – dropped a christmas gift off at her house on christmas even though they had only been on 2 or 3 dates. Surprises her and picks her up at the airport end of january when she gets back from overseas, etc.. tells her he’s really into her, etc
Anyway, she met this other guy overseas… seems like a lesser alpha the way she talks about him.. all of a sudden she’s in love with him and cant stand the sight of the other guy..
if you give them what they want so early, they want for nothing
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“How can a guy who isn’t tall, good looking, or visibly rich afford that? Take a guy like Matt Bomer from the TV show White Collar. He can afford total indifference, because he’s got women approaching him. Approaching women and asking them for anything (like a phone number) is by definition an admission of need and lower status. Approaching is what lower status people do. High status people get approached, not the other way around.”
That’s the whole point. Status is not a fixed thing, and one of the things that make people think you have higher status, and by law of social reality, effectively gives you a higher status is acting indifferent.
Of course it’s not the only thing. A boring and unfunny guy can act indifferent all he likes and he still won’t get any. But at least it’ll be harder to see that he’s boring and unfunny.
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@thatguy
You should really flesh that out and submit it to some shortstory publications. You could really have fun with it and of course there is the off-chance of seeing it in print.
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That also pretty much explains why a guy who joins a dating website/dating service is inherently doomed to failure.
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Timely post. I have always known this truth and it’s even more true in the beginning stages of knowing each other. Only recently have I actually attempted to deviate from this truth – by verbally strongly reassuring a woman of me wanting to connect – and it lead to almost an instant change in the flow.
Gotta game – at least in the beginning stages. Act, not speak.
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That works quite well, except on insecure or socially awkward people, who will think you just don’t like them and slink away with their tails between their legs. Therefore, one ought to calibrate it based on the rate of insecurity and social awkwardness in the target group.
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All true. Girl I gamed and am now seeing says “Why are you so cool?”
THe question is, this aloof game works but at some point you do have to reveal something of yourself or you end up like Mickey Rourke at the end of 9 1/2 Weeks where he games the shit out of Elizabeth…but finally she can’t take it and bolts.
Aloof needs to be punctuated with some type of vulnerability game.
The girl I see now loves that I keep her guessing. Sometimes I surprise her with some direct compliment.
Other times she’s all about “Do you miss me?” and I just smile and pull her close for the make out.
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I’m feeling generous, so one more story on this topic.
About 4 years ago, my brother – who is something of a Lothario – was in town from Brazil, where he had been shooting a movie. He drops by my place late in the evening and suggests we go out and pickup some chics. I’ve had a busy week and totally not up for it, so I say I’ll accompany him only, and so don’t bother dressing/cleaning up or anything.
We head into a crowded bar and he scans for hotties, and sees a late-20’s 9 at the end of the bar, surrounded by 2 other chics 7/8’s in the 18-22 range – so he says, “Let go”. We made a beeline in their direction, and he immediately starts up a conversation with all 3 of them. He’s cracking a few jokes, and let’s slip that he directs movies, the younger chics are clearly impressed. Then he look over at the hottie and says, “Hey, anyone want a drink?” She immediately says, “No, not me, I’m married!” and flashed a wedding ring. My brother is mildly surprised for a split second, as being 6′ tall, well built, blue eyes, and long blonde hair in a pony-tail, he would never get this reaction in Brazil. So he decides to cut his losses right there and then, and focus just on the 2 younger chics, getting them to move slightly further down the bar.
Watching this in amusement, I couldn’t help but laugh, and the hottie turns to me and says, “What’s so funny?!”
Me: (smirking) “Nothing… nothing at all…”
10 minutes pass… as I sip my drink in close proximity to the hottie, never looking her way…
Hottie: “Well, what’s YOUR story then?”
Me: (standing off to her side) “No story here… nothing to tell…” (looking into the distance)
Hottie: “Oh come on, bullshit, everybody’s got a story…”
By this time, although tired, I decided that maybe I would have some fun with her, and go diametrically opposite to my brother’s opening.
Me: (eves downcast) “I’m… I’m a nerd…”
Hottie: “What?!… ”
Me: “Yes, it’s true, I’m a nerd…” (looking away into the distance)
Hottie: “Oh, don’t say that, you don’t look that bad…” (hand on sleeve) “You probably just need some help picking out clothes, that’s all”
Me: (just stsnf there saying nothing, with a pout – trying hard not to laugh)
Hottie: “So what do you do?”
Me: “I program computers… I do like… techie stuff” (mild sign, as if I’m embarrassed)
Hottie: (running her hand along my collar) “You probably just need someone to pick you out some nice shirts and you’d look pretty good”
Me: “Hmmm, I guess…”
Then, I decided to change gears, and asked her what she did, turns out she owned a beauty salon, and the 2 younger chics were working for her. That she was married to a club owner in midtown.
Me: “So what do you do to relax?”
Hottie: “I own a vacation cottage in Cannes on the Cote d’ Azur”
Me: (sensing that the time had come for a major neg) “Oh really… but isn’t that very touristy? My ex is from Paris and said all the interesting people go to Antibes?”
Hottie: (embarrassed, somewhat sheepish look) “Oh… well I didn’t know that, when i got the place… how would I know that?”
Me: (with an air of faux disbelief) “Oh, you didn’t??”
Hottie: (after a minute’s composure) “So tell me about your Parisian friend?”
Me: “I’m not prepared to talk about that!”
Hottie: “But, like are you guys divorced? What happened?”
Me: “No, no… I won’t talk about that…”
Hottie: “Ok fine, be like that… Well can I buy you a drink at least?”
Me: “Hmmm, Ok…”
She buys me one drink… we chit-chat a little
Me: “It’s late, I really have to split!” (looking towards the door)
Hottie: “Hold up, I’m leaving too…”
We get outside, and I hail a cab
Me: “Actually, this cab can be yours…” (as the driver stops)
Hottie: (grabs me and starts kissing and making out) “I want you to come back to my place!”
Me: “What… aren’t you married?!”
Hottie: “He has to close the club, so won’t get in till after 4:00 AM, we’ve got plenty of time…”
Hottie grabs my tie, and pulls me into the cab after her…
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You’re a goof, CR. You’re using a single study based on a small, unrepresentative cross-section of the female population to justify your personal prejudices (as if 47 young female college students are representative of all women!).
[Editor: The preferences of young hot college-aged women is all that really matters to men. What man with options cares about the preferences of aging cougars?]
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[…] this article: Women Love Men Who Play Hard To Get « Citizen Renegade Categories: Books, Uncategorized Tags: advise-people, affections, affections-too, aloof, […]
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Trust me, put on some nice clothes and hit a hot spot. Act naturally and don’t make eye contact with any woman. Yawn, talk to another cool dude, smile, go take a piss, make a call on your cell etc. Just act like you don’t give a fuck about what any chick thinks about you.
I don’t care how short you are or what you look like, you will notice groups of women gravitating towards your vacinity. Don’t approach any of them, do it and you’ll notice them all move away.
Just keep up the display, do it for hours. Eventually, a woman will approach you.
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That Guy , sounds like all you really did that night was get lucky.
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I do wish you’d stop using the word “haters”, it makes you sound like a PC pussy.
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I don’t find this to be an ugly truth. Does this mean I have wholly swallowed the Chateau red pill? I think yes.
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[…] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Celsajoy , Jonathan Manor. Jonathan Manor said: The science merely serves as a confirmation of what I can see with my eyes. – @citizenrenegade http://bit.ly/h9Ncp8 […]
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“Suck-up credentialist therapists and marriage counselors hate these kinds of studies (and, by extension, real-world truth tellers such as yer ‘umble narrator) because it puts the lie to everything they know and believe. How would you feel if the meaning of your very existence was revealed for the shabby mountain of platitudinal shit it is?”
Not exactly true. This study refers to attraction. Note the researchers use of the term “potential partner.” While it does have some relevance to LTR’s (as you’ve written about plenty) it’s a bit of a stretch to say that this study and ones like it invalidate the work of credentialed therapists and counselors. Many relationship problems don’t have a lot to do with attraction per se.
Full disclosure: I am in school for clinical psychology and have seen positive results from your “enemies.”
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“That guy”
You displayed no technique at all. She was a slut looking to bang the first guy she spoke to.
Sorry, fail.
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Emptiness = Fulfillment
Dread and fear = Longing and Interest
Attraction = Repulsion
Denial = Interest
This is the inverted reality we occupy in America today.
Learn this and forget all before it – you must ignore a woman for her to be attracted to you.
Create dread in her so she stays with and pursues you.
Finally, if you want her to leave, pay close attention to her and attend to her every need.
She will soon tire of you and depart on her own.
“The true man wants two things: danger and play. For that reason he wants woman, as the most dangerous plaything.” (Friedrich Nietzsche, 1844 – 1900)
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Golden advice, once again backed up by many personal experiences.
Here’s one: There’s this little entitled princess in our company that gets a lot of attention from all beta manginaers (mangina engineeris). Whatever, wherever and whenever she wants. Except from me. Aside from her admittedly fuckable body and the intentionally radiant smile she isn’t electric-current-through-balls good looking to me, a six or seven maybe. But like a bucket of water in a desert filled with cocktuses, she is craved for by everyone (did I say hopeless betas?) and therefore has a thoroughly distorted view of her SMV. Which makes ignoring her even more enjoyable. She clearly is disturbed by the fact that I do not seek her company, approval, smile or any recognition whatsoever. A quick BJ might be a win-win for both, I don’t know. A number of times she has tried to recruit me to the pedestalization army she has put everyone else to. Needless to say the conversations she launches are unimaginative and dull, but catchy if you’re desperate beta. Ever notice how women under the impression of being The Pussy To Be Pursued bring zilch to the discussion but always get away with it? Her attempts at humour are, well, attempts at best. While my beta colleagues literally drink every word from her lips, I remain silent and uninterested. Nothing aggressive, I just act like my thoughts are elsewhere when she runs the show, say as close as another galaxy. The minutes of my silence must seem endless to her, judging by the glances with which she tries to make me engaged. At the same time she sees my colleagues think highly of me, Mr. Wit, The Party Animal. i.e. the guy to be interested in. I know she asks herself the question “WHY IN THE NAME OF HELL IS HE NOT IMPRESSED BY ME?” And she keeps trying, trying, trying.
On second thoughts, I doubt her BJ would compare to this overwhelming feeling of power.
Lesson: Beta colleagues can be your leverage. While using you and the things you’ve said & done as a marketing instrument to prove THEY are funny, they keep marketing you.
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@Anton
@ itsme
psychologists/psychiatrists/therapists are some of the most fucked up people you will ever meet.
Absolutely true in my experience. And the females are major sluts and attention whores….and crazy in bed.
The latter of this is true in my experience.
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College Grad girl; “hey Rum, does this dress make my ass look fat.?” Rum walks over, shoves her head down in to The Position; deals with her silliy panties (a thong,actually) and then delivers a quick one stroak sperm dose to her strangely open and uncomplaining labia/cervix/etc.
Then Rum slaps her naked ass and tells her,”Put yur cloths back on babe, we’re are goin out!”
Or you just bore each other with half-formed lies and half baked lib-ideology until actual death became to look like the best release on offer.
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College Grad girl; “hey Rum, does this dress make my ass look fat.?” Rum walks over, shoves her head down in to The Position; deals with her silliy panties (a thong,actually) and then delivers a quick one stroak sperm dose to her strangely open and uncomplaining labia/cervix/etc.
Then Rum slaps her naked ass and tells her,”Put yur cloths back on babe, we’re are goin out!”
I think you meant College Grad’s girl seeing as I’m a guy. But this is funny. Unlikely, but funny.
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[…] Eine interessante Studie befasst sich damit, inwieweit Unsicherheit über die Meinung bestimmter Männer über Frauen Auswirkungen auf die Bewertung der Attraktivität dieser Männer durch diese Frauen hat (via Roissy): […]
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Can you not help but play hard to get if you have two or three on the stove at once? There must be an evolutionary hamster function in that somewhere where caveman is out often and they sense his attention must be very valuable because its so scarce.
Also I wonder how polygamous gaming goes where all women know each other. Attention seeking must reach fever pitch.
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So we’ve learnt, then, that Mr Rum is a premature ejaculator?
Interesting to know
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Somewhat relevant. Julian Assange – Aloof alpha
http://gawker.com/#!5757325/julian-assange-has-at-least-four-love-children
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Grendel —
Can you not help but play hard to get if you have two or three on the stove at once?
Point taken, but, this can also go the other way — if you’ve got two or three (or five or six) plates spinning and then you meet a girl who just blows all the others away, that can make you pursue that girl even more ardently than you otherwise would.
Of course there’s probably still some value-added, in the sense that your “ardent pursuit” is much less likely to reek of the weak, beta/desperate/puppy-dog kind of pursuit.
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@Hukka….
Interesting post. I started seeing a girl who is cute, but somehow has an interesting impact on guys.
They seem to throw themselves at her and make rather awkward passes.
She tells me about this. I usually just laugh.
I do push-pull…attentive, then disappear, then back then away for a few days.
I also DHV her all the time. She makes a real effort. Gave me an early Valentine’s Day gift because I was away etc.
But I don’t quite get what’s up with the stories about guys throwing themselves at her.
She keeps telling me I am too aloof. Aloof with my “feelings” because otherwise I’m quite outgoing and attractive to other women.
So she attracts a lot of beta orbiters and hates that other women find me attractive.
I do err on the side of aloofness.
The best quote on this blog is….and I paraphrase…”When in doubt think what a jerk would do….and do that”.
So rather than call or sms her every day…I wait an extra day. We chat…then it’s silence for a few days.
That always gets her more excited to hear from me.
The beta orbiter thing around these women….I don’t quite get this. THey want guys around them that they won’t bang….Why?
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That German blog linked above is actually pretty decent for those who read the krautsprache.
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Women love men who play hard to get? Can’t imagine anything better. Insane!
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Keep women on their toes. Keep them guessing. Instill dread. Even in relationships. Be busy and give them no attention at all, they will die just to have a few words with you.
KEEP THAT HAMSTER WHEEL RUNNING!
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@walawala
“The beta orbiter thing around these women….I don’t quite get this. THey want guys around them that they won’t bang….Why?
I am far from the most qualified to answer this but the orbiters boost her self-esteem and ego. If they buy her stuff and take her places too then it is a material gain for her as well.
Girls love orbiters because they make them feel sexy and desirable. “I have tons of guys vying for my attention, I must be hot stuff!”
Orbiters=power, at least to a women. Even girls of average looks can amass orbiters if they initiate and can game a bit.
Slightly off-topic-
Last girl I was with had a stable full of orbiters and spent a great deal of energy maintaining that stable. Like your girl, she loved to drone on about the attention her man-child orbiters laid upon her and always made sure to bring them up. I would counter with either ignoring it or telling her to go out with them, playfully telling her to get out her phone and call or text them to set something up. This was during pre-Roissy time for me and I eventually beta-ed the relationship but calling her bluff and teasing/encouring her to go out with her orbiters when she tried to use them to make me jealous seemed to work well. Take with a grain of salt, I’m still a recovering beta.
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I’ve always had success talking to women like they were just another guy really. Never give them much of a hint that I’m interested, and it seems to work for me quite well. That’s really just it in a nutshell, no NLP or any sort of stuff like that, just talking about any number of subjects.
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@Walala – I think for some women they can’t even stand other women and their flightiness.
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Alpha Pig
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@walawala
The beta orbiter thing around these women….I don’t quite get this. THey want guys around them that they won’t bang….Why?
to feed their self esteem and need for attention. they’re not able to get this from the alphas that are banging them, so they get it from the beta orbiters.
beta orbiters are a necessary part of the ecosystem.
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http://thenextweb.com/shareables/2011/02/11/valentine%E2%80%99s-day-by-the-numbers/
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My 20 year old often begs me to tell her that I love her. The best I’ll do is to say “the penis never lies”, and let her grab my hard on.
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We only chase what runs away from us. – Proverb
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Although I enjoy raising the flag for all points that are counter to being aloof, I agree that you must be cautious in doling out romantic satisfaction in the form of a promise of security. You don’t want to give her attentions that are an ego boost of satisfaction for who she is. You give her little boosts for what she does. You praise her cooking – you don’t generally praise her by saying “I love you”.
You want her to constantly fear how much you love her. And you want her to constantly feel an environment of love. You want her addicted to how you make her feel, but fearing that you won’t always make her feel that way. You want to keep her buzzing on the opiate/crack speedball of your charisma, but you don’t want to ever give the impression that she is so much all that that she deserves what you offer. She must always feel deep down that ever day and every moment she has to work for it.
So for instance you want to thrill to the sound of each others voice, bond in night long dreamy embraces, giggle and belly laugh as if you were children, fuck like energizer bunny rabbits with a mind full of mushrooms, and spank her at least as often as you caress her – which should be as often as the opportunity arises – which should be constantly as she will be coming up to kiss you all day long.
And all that while you are feeding her all these physical affirmations, you want to fill her with fear of loss. Constantly find ways to fill her with dread. Make her sick to her stomach with fear. Having nightmares. Make her head over heels in love for and in terrible fear.
In this way she will work full time as a devoted love slave, and daily will surpass herself in her showing of affection. The room will be spotless, the food will be restaurant quality, every action on her part will be devotion. Her eyes will be bright and meet yours with a spark, and her voice will thrill with an electric spark of a timber found only in lovers in love. Your room will be bursting with love, and your heart will be warm.
You want to give her everything she wants and then some, but you want to do it in a way that makes her worry if you will suddenly give it all to someone else at any moment.
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@itsme /DJ/Dan
Is there any prescribed way of handling these obiter stories.
My way has been two-fold: laugh it off, or acknowledge with a kind of bland indifference. I will treat it no differently than any other piece of casual chit-chat. “Oh, interesting, right…yah…cool.” Or if it’s a text/chat, just “hahaha” or “oh…”
Then, I do my own thing. I post photos of me hanging out with other chicks or go quiet about my own weekend plans that don’t include her.
I must be doing something right so far.
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that’s soooo suh-weet! *sniff*
When do you start leaving?
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I have a BETTER proverb – from Confucius.
it say:
man who fart
in church
sit in own
pew
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Totally unrelated, but seems like soemthing Roissy would gravitate towards. BAsically Mubarak and sexual frustration: http://bigthink.com/ideas/26860
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Question – how do you play hard to get on a site like Ashley Madison that is like 10-1 men? I have had some success on the site but the amount of work, emails, chats, meetings …etc makes it a decent amount of hard work.
I tried the Roissy method but have not had as much success as me just emailing and calling (though I do not come across as needy and I try to spit game at the same time).
Any advice?
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My Ex girlfriend still loves me too much, and it’s a bother. But the instructive thing is watching her boyfriend. He’s an attractive young guy – around 30 but could pass for 25. Actually he’s above average attractive – noticeably attractive. And yet put him and me in a room, and the girls will be going for me. My ex will be going for me. Right in front of the guy.
I had some visitors to my 2nd abode today. At one point people were taking pictures. The guy had a bit of charisma and got the girls laughing and worked the crowd a bit – but he lacked sexual tension or command or follow through. He had no idea of what he was capable of commanding – he hadn’t assumed any authority.
I on the other hand ordered all 4 of the girls onto the big bed for a picture of me in the middle. There was protest at first, but it wasn’t difficult to get them to acquiesce to their desire. Granted two of the four were my ex and my current girlfriend – but the point was seeing how this guy had no clue of the opportunities he could muster – and how he seemed indifferent to them. No sense of teasing. No sense of sexual tension, of flirting, of assuming a dominant frame.
In one picture I had to grab my ex and fling her body over to stand next to her boyfriend in a group picture. The crowd laughed as it was obvious her inclination was instead to stand next to me. This is the kind of maneuver that would be completely lost one the young buck. It would never occur to him how how to enjoy such shenanegans or what their benefits could be. Such behavior seems outside his frame of reference.
Sadly I can see my ex won’t be able to sustain chemistry with the good looking affable bloke.
The social skills of dealing with women are invaluable. I don’t know where I’d even begin with tutoring that lost cause. Nowhere, I suppose. He does fine on looks alone, if by fine you mean he can get laid and cause brief infatuations. But as for pushing and pulling serious triggers, he’s as bland as a puffed rice cake.
He’s good looking enough that my ex’s voice is respectful and accomodating when he talks to her. But he doesn’t push and pull her buttons hard enough that she is really in love with the guy. It’s more like she wants to be, but can’t be. The guy has no sense of playing a girl like an instrument – he talks to her like she was a buddy. No sense of playful teasing – no idea how to dominate and be a bit evil.
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kill yourself
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Xsplat: Yes that may be all true, but he is fucking your ex.
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@walawala – I’m not a big fan of chicks with beta orbiters, it’s a bit of a red flag really. My ex had beta orbiters and ex boyfriends still hanging off her, until I knocked her up of course.
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Study says “PEOPLE” are better off not displaying open affections, etc. – NOT JUST MEN..
[Editor: Actually, dumbass, it says “women”, not people. Try reading the study instead of spouting off. Anyone who’s lived a day in their lives knows that women fall for hard to get game much more than do men.]
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Truth #1: Bitches be crazy
Truth #2: Haters gon’ hate
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Exactly what I needed to read. Thanks for the entry.
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And how is that to my disadvantage?
Not only did I have her when she was younger, tighter, hotter, but at this point it’s about “take my wife, PLEASE”.
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Editor – I was referring to the last 2 sentences in your quotation on the study. Understood it to mean that the findings were applicable to all, though women were mentioned in the beginning.
I’ve lived quite a bit, though not for too long – but def enough to know you’re not nearly as correct on everything as your ego assumes.
Men also fall less hard than girls for someone with a bit of ‘mystery’ who isn’t constantly available, needy, and clingy –
[Editor: fixed that for you.]
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“And for all this talk of womens’ ‘hamster wheel minds’ – what unconscious denial!!! ”
Except Roissy never said women have “hamster wheel minds.” They do, however have a subterranean force – call it id if you like – that responds to aloofness and other male traits (google “dark triad”) as a demonstration of male sexual market value. When it is triggered, the “hamster wheel” spins with obsessive thoughts, and the spinning is about he who triggered it, generating strong feelings of attraction.
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. Understood it to mean that the findings were applicable to all, though women were mentioned in the beginning.
It’s obvious that you’re projecting. The study was on 47 chicks… not on 47 people. It’s” He loves me, He love me not”. She loves me, She loves me not” is just your wishful thinking.
Men also fall much harder for a girl with a bit of ‘mystery’ who isn’t constantly available, needy, and clingy – that’s pretty obvious. And while I, and many other women, certainly don’t want some desperate guy, I would never call back anyone who tries to pull off a lot of the blatantly asshole-ish, man-whore moves you advocate.
Men “fall” much harder for a girl with a bit of “receptivity” not mystery. This is a site about sex dear!
Yea, when in doubt, be aloof. Same advice I would give any of my girlfriends.
Your advice is dumb, but hey, at least it’s not sexist. LMAO. Aloof works for men, not women.
And for all this talk of womens’ ‘hamster wheel minds’ – what unconscious denial!!! What is this whole site except men trying to determnine how women’s minds work, what their motivations are, how to best control your interactions with them, etc.. Seems like a whole bunch of little horny hamsters to me.
Might it be that such research helps us get up skirts faster… legally? Would you prefer we be talking about rape?
DJ – I agree with your approach – treat women like you’d talk to another guy – don’t show blatant sexual interest, etc. That is definitely what I’ve always liked the most – makes it easy to talk to a guy, and makes me the most interested in him. You feel like you’re not being condescended to or gamed, just treated like a normal human, and if the guy mentions other hot girls or something, he’s still treating you like a buddy who’s in on it, not like one of the antelopes that’s being eyed by a cheetah.
And female chimps loved to be groomed by male chimps that have no chance of copulation. Talking to a girl as if “she” were a “he” is an inefficient sexual technique.
There are 3 ways to chat up “poon”
1. Like a dude.
2. Like a girl you wanna bone.
3. Like a girl you could take or leave.
Smart PUA’s use option 3.
xsplat – there’s playful teasing, and a bit of domination and evil – which is fun, and the girl can and should respond right back with the same. Quite a distinction between that and all women acting like some goddamned rodent.
Ahh, you can lead a Filly to water, but …. Negging is non reciprocal and ambiguous. Flirting is reciprocal and not ambiguous. Guess which technique works best on women? Guess which technique the study confirmed works best on women?
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@ Bob Smith
If your not tall, good looking, rich, then start cultivating yourself into a man that women want. Even if your a bum, being indifferent to the outcome of the approach can help. This whole “your lower value when you approach” is b.s., when you carry yourself as “the prize” and are indifferent towards the outcome that shit is out the window.
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@ Evil Alpha
Excellent responses to JSM, but largely unnecessary, since regular readers accept the Chateau maxim:
what women say they want and what they actually want are almost always diametrically opposed…
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@Anton
I’m glad you liked the responses. I wrote that mostly for the new comers who aren’t experienced enough to recognize her bullshit. And sometimes even veterans need to incorporate a new perspective.
I have always felt that silence is often too tolerant. Calling bitches on their lies needs to happen more often not less.
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I’m not exactly responding to you, because you consider yourself a protecterate of the female race from negative thinking. However it could be instructive to riff off of your idea.
The guy who talked to my ex like a buddy, and who didn’t maintain an edginess to him, would never want to deliberately rile up a girl. Instead I can see he always wants to deliberately de-rile her. He fails the “does my dress make me look fat” shit test, because instead of WANTING to bother her, he wants to NOT.
He’s got it badwarcks.
Yes, men need what appears to womyn as misogyny. We need to deliberately rile your race up – to bother you. To tease you. To confound you. We need to be the older brat brother pulling your pony tail.
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@j.s.
I’ve lived quite a bit, though not for too long
subtext: i know how women think because i am a woman so you guys should listen to me and i am really not that old even though the rest of my post makes me sound like an aging feminist twatrag.
And while I, and many other women, certainly don’t want some desperate guy, I would never call back anyone who tries to pull off a lot of the blatantly asshole-ish, man-whore moves you advocate.
that’s fine, because those assholish moves being advocated here work brilliantly on the intended demographic: hot young women.
What is this whole site except men trying to determnine how women’s minds work, what their motivations are, how to best control your interactions with them, etc..
yes, means to an end. we’re men, we like to figure stuff out. understanding how things work and using them to our advantage is kind of how modern civilization was built and sustained. human interaction is the same way. those who understand it and use that understanding to their advantage get what they want out of others.
DJ – I agree with your approach – treat women like you’d talk to another guy – don’t show blatant sexual interest, etc.
pretty much every guy here knows from personal experience that this is a load of shit. it’s the fastest way to the friend zone. an e-ticket ride to betaland.
That is definitely what I’ve always liked the most – makes it easy to talk to a guy, and makes me the most interested in him.
of course it’s what you like and want, because this is what works best for unfeminine women who want to be treated as a man’s equal.
You feel like you’re not being condescended to or gamed
if a guy who’s really good at it gamed you, you wouldn’t know it. but, chances are good that you’ve never really been gamed by an experienced guy because he can suss out women like you within 10 seconds after the opening, that is if he even bothers approaching.
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JS
its simple
picture yourself a a 30 year old guy
how EXACTLY–ste by step would YOU get a really hot 24 year old girl to have sex with you
to have SEX with you not marry you, not let you buy her dinner
how EXACTLY do you advise these men to act to get HOT girls to FUCK them
do you have an alternative answer to those presented here?
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Dana,
So suspicious that supposedly “smart” girls like JS never think of conducting such an obvious thought experiment on her own… rather than after being challenged.
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@Dan
Thanx, I needed a new hero.
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The study showed that uncertainty is the best, but it also suggests that being straightforward about liking someone is a viable option. Now I suppose one could say this is just the unfortunate result of letting the ladies self-report given their inability to understand their own desires, but on the face of it these results don’t support the idea that being open and honest with a woman about how you feel is a bad thing.
“As described in the online version of the journal Psychological Science, the women were more attracted to the men who liked them a lot — much more attracted than they were to men who were lukewarm in their feelings.”
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/wray-herbert/online-dating_b_813188.html
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man who fart
in church
sit in own
pew
man who stand on toilet
high on pot
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Andrew.
Showing a lady your cards was indeed second, but it was a distant second. Stop reading the gay ass huffington post and look up the actual study. Hard to get is undoubtedly the way to go.
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If you spend time with a woman, you’re doing them a favor.
That’s a good way to approach them. *They* approach you that way, make no mistake.
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