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Chateau Heartiste

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File Under Science: Love At First Same Night Lay

February 16, 2011 by CH

We here at the Chateau have in the past written that it is just as easy — in fact, may even be easier — to fall in love and begin a healthy long term relationship with a woman after having sex with her on the first date as it is with a woman who has made you wait for weeks or months before having sex.

Well, now science once again hearts Chateau with a new study proving exactly our contention.

Relationships that start with a spark and not much else aren’t necessarily doomed from the get-go, new University of Iowa research suggests.

In an analysis of relationship surveys, UI sociologist Anthony Paik found that average relationship quality was higher for individuals who waited until things were serious to have sex compared to those who became sexually involved in “hookups,” “friends with benefits,” or casual dating relationships.

But having sex early on wasn’t to blame for the disparity. When Paik factored out people who weren’t interested in getting serious, he found no real difference in relationship quality. That is, couples who became sexually involved as friends or acquaintances and were open to a serious relationship ended up just as happy as those who dated and waited.

Abstinence counselors, prudes and Promise Keepers wept.

“We didn’t see much evidence that relationships were lower quality because they started off as hookups,” said Paik, an assistant professor in the UI College of Liberal Arts and Sciences. “The study suggests that rewarding relationships are possible for those who delay sex. But it’s also possible for true love to emerge if things start off with a more ‘Sex and the City’ approach, when people spot each other across the room, become sexually involved and then build a relationship.”

Pure, feral lust is a necessary prerequisite to romantic love. A love not undergirded by animal lust is not a romantic love at all. It is, at best, a companionate love, or an affectionate love, or a phony love that two losers convince themselves to feel when no other options are available. So why delay the inevitable? If you feel hot for each other, go ahead and consummate on the first date! You won’t poison any budding relationship that might follow.

So if not the context of sexual involvement, what is behind the lower quality scores for relationships initiated as hookups? Paik points to selection: Certain people are prone to finding relationships unrewarding, and those individuals are more likely to form hookups.

“The question is whether it’s the type of relationship that causes lower quality or whether it’s the people,” he said. “The finding is that it’s something about the people.”

In other words, genes trump culture. Again. Can a blank slatist read a science article these days without having an ulcer attack?

The study has a few choice things to say about sluts, implying that they make poor wife and girlfriend material:

People with higher numbers of past sexual partners were more likely to form hookups, and to report lower relationship quality. Through the acquisition of partners, Paik said, they begin to favor short-term relationships and find the long-term ones less rewarding.

It’s also likely that people who are predisposed to short-term relationships are screened out of serious ones because they don’t invest the time and energy to develop long-term ties, Paik said.

Why bother investing when the sexual horizon beckons with illimitable choice?

“While hookups or friends with benefits can turn into true love, both parties typically enter the relationship for sex and the expectations are fairly low,” Paik said. “In the casual dating category, some people think they’re headed for a long-term relationship, but there are also people who are only in it for sex. It basically brings ‘players’ and ‘non-players’ together. As a consequence, it raises the question of whether casual dating is a useful institution. This paper would suggest not really, because it doesn’t screen out the non-romantic types.”

Re-read the above paragraph for clarity. That pretty much describes modern dating in a nutsack. Casual dating is dead, replaced by one vast and immane, interwoven, interacting, multivariate, multinational dominion of Don Juans; a system of neverending seduction designed to maximize the scramble for mating opportunities, to indulgently reward the winners, and to mercilessly punish the losers. We are living in the Reign of Replicators.

And who do you think comes out on the top and bottom in this system, based on relationship quality?

In conducting the study, Paik controlled for several factors known to influence relationship quality, such as marital status, children and social embeddedness. Consistent with prior research, he found that unmarried couples and those with children had lower relationship quality, but couples with positive ties to each other’s relatives had higher relationship quality.

Losers: Single moms, women in an alpha male’s rotation.
Winners: Couples formed from close-knit (read: non-diverse) communities.

There was one final interesting coda to the study:

In a study of Chicago-area adults published earlier this year, Paik reported that being involved with a friend increased the likelihood of non-monogamy by 44 percent for women and 25 percent for men. Involvement with an acquaintance or stranger increased the odds by 30 percent for women and 43 percent for men.

Note that sex disparity. When a woman eventually spreads her legs for a male friend (read: orbiter) she is more likely than the man to cheat. In contrast, when a man has sex with a mere acquaintance or a stranger he is the one more likely to cheat. This tells us something very revealing about the evolutionarily molded mental processes of men and women. Judged by their relative increased propensity to cheat, women are more prone than men to consider a converted LJBF an unsatisfactory sexual partner. And men are more prone than women to cheat on a lover who was a stranger or loose acquaintance at first meeting.

Lesson: If you want a faithful girl as a lover, you’re better off starting fresh with a new woman than trying to convert a long-time female friend to a lover.

And if you are a woman who wants a faithful man as a lover, you’re better off having a relationship with a man from your family or community circle.

Another way to look at this: Women get stronger tingles for strange and mysterious cock than they do for familiar and friendly cock. And men feel more fidelity to familiar and friendly former LJBFs whom they have finally bedded than they do for random hookups.

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Posted in Biomechanics is God, Dating, Love | 167 Comments

167 Responses

  1. on February 16, 2011 at 4:03 pm first!

    first!

    LikeLike


  2. on February 16, 2011 at 4:04 pm Gorbachev

    All of this makes sense.

    Is this more “Science proves me right” wanking or what’s going on?

    LikeLike


  3. on February 16, 2011 at 4:08 pm Mark

    Less diverse communities?

    Ohhhhhhh nooooooooooos

    LikeLike


  4. on February 16, 2011 at 4:09 pm Workshy Joe

    That definitely tallies with my experience. First date sex never spolied anything.

    It was all the Beta crap I did afterwards after that poisoned the well.

    Live and learn.

    LikeLike


  5. on February 16, 2011 at 4:18 pm AlphaWalksIntoABar

    I made this mistake 2 weeks ago.
    Met a girl, brought her home.
    Got her mostly naked, but decided to hold off, while pitting her as the sexual aggressor.

    Thought this would fuel the fire.

    Wrong!

    2nd date, could not close.
    3rd date, she was rambling on about all these orbiters in her life.

    She asked me why they’d proposition her if they were dating other people.

    I said sarcastically, “It must be all your sexual magnetism.”

    That got her hot and bothered.
    About 20 minutes later, she asked me if I even thought she was attractive.

    I said, of course, or I wouldn’t be on a date with you.

    I thought I was in. Wrong.

    The sexual magnetism hot button was to much fun. I dropped it several times.

    We went back to my place, I put on a movie and we were kissing but I couldn’t seem to escalate because she’d pull away every time.

    Since we had not had sex, no Valentines Day for her, except a text.

    She attempted to set up a date via text, then called to follow up.

    She explained she didn’t think there was a romantic connection anymore.

    She said I didn’t know her well enough to make fun of her.
    She also said she had looked in the mirror and what I said made her feel ugly.

    My response, “Oh well. I think you got the wrong impression, but that’s fine.’

    I tell her, “Good Luck with med school”

    Then I get on facebook and she’s IM’ing me an hour later.
    She still seems interested, but I’m going to be indifferent.

    We shall see how this works out.

    I know if I had slept with her on the first date I would not have run into this issue. Don’t make the same mistake.

    LikeLike


  6. on February 16, 2011 at 4:19 pm Science

    this is to your twitter comment:
    You should check out The Real Lincoln by Thomas DiLorenzo.

    Lincoln was a fucker.

    LikeLike


  7. on February 16, 2011 at 4:43 pm AR

    Ok.

    I am a 22 year old virgin fresh outta college. I’ve never had a gf or so much as a blowjob.

    Only the 5-6 girls seem to ever be interested in me. I’m 5’7 and lift weights like a mofo, weighing around 180 lbs. But to the pretty girls I’m furniture.

    Despite me:

    – Talking slowly in conversation (mostly)

    – Okay body language etc.

    – being social, fun and a joking kind of person

    I might as well be gay. Chateau, PLEASE help me out here. I’ve had thoughts of suicide at some points. I am, without a doubt, the only person I know who’s a virgin.

    I’ve tried approaching girls in bars and during the daytime. Get flaked on without exception.

    For what its worth, other people don’t seem to think of me as one.

    LikeLike


  8. on February 16, 2011 at 4:44 pm Sam Spade

    Men who break the LJBF barrier and sleep with a female friend are more likely to push for more – after all, they’ve been orbiting so long their Oneitis has almost completely consumed them. Thus they are more likely to get burned.

    Unless of course the man has learned proper game and shifted the paradigm of his female “friend” causing her to want him, and him to give a flying F.

    LikeLike


  9. on February 16, 2011 at 4:44 pm Death vajra

    Yeah, chicks dig a guy who knows how to get laid. She wants him to percieve her as being of lower value, provide her with plausible deniability etc. The faster he can do this, the more snatch she can smell on him.

    Every one of us has worked a chick for weeks on end, only to find out she took it in the ass at some house party last night. What can I tell you?

    ‘it just happened’

    LikeLike


  10. on February 16, 2011 at 4:47 pm AR

    Ok well that might not be quite true- cute girls do talk to me every now and then, but I’m fairly beta I guess. I’ve gone through the archives here, but it’s almost too much info to take in.

    I know the basics of game – I’ve looked at sites like sosuave and rsdnation.

    I don’t have any charm though.

    LikeLike


  11. on February 16, 2011 at 4:49 pm Selig

    “Another way to look at this: Women get stronger tingles for strange and mysterious cock than they do for familiar and friendly cock.”

    The more I think about it, having a daughter is the worst thing that can happen to a man.

    Imagine spending years of effort, endless amounts of cash for something that’s just going to be an alpha-douchebag’s ball-draining sperm dump apparatus.

    How do fathers feel knowing that there daughters are out there slutting it up? I mean, back in the day, you could at least have until her college years before she turned Megaslut, now they’re ravaged and used up by the time they leave high school.

    Sorry to all the poor men out there who ended up with a female child.

    LikeLike


  12. on February 16, 2011 at 4:52 pm Gorbachev

    @Death Vajra,

    That’s right. You work on some girl for three weeks, building a relationship, and then she beds some skankly, unattractive guy she met at a party.

    That’s happened to me.

    My philosophy is: If I like you, I want to fuck you. That’s when our conversation will really start. Without sex, we’re nothing to each other.

    I never, ever treat a woman I’m not actually fucking right now (or have done before and want to again) as anything other than someone I know.

    WOMEN ARE NOT SPECIAL. They’re just people. What you want is sex: what you want is sex with a woman X attractive. You define X.

    Take a woman home. Take the lead. Make her think the situation got out of hand. As soon as you break down the sex door, you’re in. Everything changes.

    And the first time you have sex, make sure her bell gets rung over and over. Despite what the alphas say, if you ring it hard, and take serious pleasure from her, you own that pussy. All the other conversations get a lot easier after that.

    In general, bang ASAP.

    LikeLike


  13. on February 16, 2011 at 4:55 pm Selig

    Also, inb4 ‘I raised my daughter to respect herself and love Jesus blah blah blah.’

    Those girls are the worst on any college campus.

    LikeLike


  14. on February 16, 2011 at 4:56 pm From the can

    Attention not hot but doable girls! That’s right I’m talking to you 6s. Don’t listen to this article. You’re better off holding out and gaming him with your compensating personality. He will hold out for the good stuff (if he doesn’t have that many options) during which time you may be able to form a monogamous relationship. Just don’t expect to meet his friends or parents any time soon.

    LikeLike


  15. on February 16, 2011 at 5:05 pm Death vajra

    @selig

    it’s especially freaky when you see the clothes your wife is buying for ‘your’ daughter.

    @gorbachev

    I agree, pleasure her to the best of your ability. Just keep your face out of it (at least at first).

    LikeLike


  16. on February 16, 2011 at 5:09 pm Nicole

    Romantic “love” isn’t love. It’s just lust unnecessarily tainted with obligation.

    Familial love is what’s real and lasts as long as people don’t screw each other over. It may or may not grow out of romantic lust, but these days the not is more likely.

    That aside, many people bond because of genetic compatibility right away. It doesn’t matter what they label it, it’s familial bonding. The other person looks, smells, and behaves like they belong in your family. You see your future children in their eyes whether or not you consciously want to make babies with them.

    You men can tell yourselves whatever you like, but women are mistaken to rely on romance. We should rely more on our male relatives to select and/or filter, and leave the dream guy in our dreams.

    LikeLike


  17. on February 16, 2011 at 5:11 pm what

    “And if you are a woman who wants a faithful man as a lover, you’re better off having a relationship with a man from your family or community circle.”

    I KNOW…. my sweetie is my brother’s friend! ha! I know and I am keeping him! I’ll game him forever with my feminine charms. hehehe!!

    LikeLike


  18. on February 16, 2011 at 5:16 pm Death vajra

    @Nicole

    I think ‘romance’ is defined very differently by men and women respectively. If you’re advising women to abandon the best-selling, Harlequin-styled version, I’d agree.

    LikeLike


  19. on February 16, 2011 at 5:19 pm Solomon II

    I absolutely refuse to date (real date: movies, dinner, shows, etc.) women who wont sleep with me on the first date. If I don’t inspire that animal lust in her, then she’s figured me for a chump that will shell out cash while waiting for her to put out.

    If she does make me wait til the third or fourth date, I make that pussy mine for a month or two tops, then send it on its way.

    A girl who got so wrapped up in me that she wanted to F me two hours after we met? That’s a bitch who deserves dinner and a movie.

    LikeLike


  20. on February 16, 2011 at 5:19 pm Death vajra

    I’ll elaborate. Men believe they are experiencing romantic love when they meet a woman they want to buy stuff for. Women believe romance is all about saying no, then yes.

    LikeLike


  21. on February 16, 2011 at 5:24 pm Rum

    Nicole

    Yes indeed, men and women tend to bond together most easily when their genes fit together like they were in the same family. However, being raised together from an early age tends to strongly inhibit sexual attraction, which is a good thing if avoided twelve-towed, cross eyed, monsterbabies matters to you.
    You wanna know what is truly, deeply sick? Artificially inseminated/donor-egg fertility clinic produced babies growing up and meeting a half sibling about the same age produced the same way. Instant comfort zone. Something they cannot describe… and the normal aversion to a crib mate is absent.

    LikeLike


  22. on February 16, 2011 at 5:29 pm Ryan

    Solomon II,

    Didn’t your ex-wife “make you” wait? From what I remember of your post on her, she did, because she was a devout Catholic. You also (rightly) held her to be the best, most worthwhile woman you’ve known. You wouldn’t wait if you met the 2.0 version of her?

    Now, if the man is begging for it and she refuses, i.e., if she’s calling the shots, then you’ve got problems. But if both are religiously opposed, then I fail to see how the guy is, or would usually be perceived as, a loser (unless she’s pretty dense, in which case she probably isn’t LTR material anyway). On the other hand, if she wants it and he denies her, then he’s arguably got even more power.

    LikeLike


  23. on February 16, 2011 at 5:34 pm itsme

    Men who break the LJBF barrier and sleep with a female friend are more likely to push for more – after all, they’ve been orbiting so long their Oneitis has almost completely consumed them. Thus they are more likely to get burned.

    Unless of course the man has learned proper game and shifted the paradigm of his female “friend” causing her to want him, and him to give a flying F.

    interesting.

    i personally find that the longer i’ve known a female friend, the less i want to sleep with them, if i even wanted to to begin with. it’s like the longer i know them, the less attractive they become.

    and of course, the less i want them, the more they’re attracted to me. i guess we could categorize this as ‘unintended auto-game’?

    LikeLike


  24. on February 16, 2011 at 5:35 pm Death vajra

    In my city, if I take out a 25 girl for a first date on a Saturday night and I DONT try to fuck her, she’ll never speak to me again.

    LikeLike


  25. on February 16, 2011 at 5:37 pm Death vajra

    That is: over 25 years old

    LikeLike


  26. on February 16, 2011 at 6:02 pm Evil Alpha

    “And the first time you have sex, make sure her bell gets rung over and over. Despite what the alphas say, if you ring it hard, and take serious pleasure from her, you own that pussy. All the other conversations get a lot easier after that.”

    Your advice has a lot of asterisks. Oftentimes a sluts desire to be “owned” will not involve her orgasm. Especially at 3 am when the both of you have been drinking. As with dogs… the dominant one is 1st in line and gets the lions share of the kill. Too many 1st date pussy eaters out there.

    LikeLike


  27. on February 16, 2011 at 6:02 pm SFG

    “In other words, genes trump culture. Again. Can a blank slatist read a science article these days without having an ulcer attack?”

    I should add that ulcers are in fact caused by the bacterium H. pylori. 😉

    “I am a 22 year old virgin fresh outta college. I’ve never had a gf or so much as a blowjob.

    Only the 5-6 girls seem to ever be interested in me. I’m 5’7 and lift weights like a mofo, weighing around 180 lbs. But to the pretty girls I’m furniture.”

    Build up experience with the 5s and 6s and slowly work your way up. Having 5s and 6s in rotation builds your confidence (since even a 5 is better than ol’ Lefty and Righty) when approaching a 7, which helps with inner game.

    I started even later than you, and went from omega to greater beta in a few years of f***ing around. Success builds confidence, which builds success. Keep plugging.

    LikeLike


  28. on February 16, 2011 at 6:05 pm Nicole

    Rum, having almost dated a first cousin by accident, I can say that finding out one was related would indeed suck.

    The progeny of insemination wouldn’t even have the benefit of an aunt who knows who everybody’s real parents are.

    Death, the Harlequin, butterflies, gina tingles thing is only for women who want to stay single forever or switch husbands every few years. Once I read enough west African legends, I realized a good bit of it was to instruct women on how they should feel about the man they marry, if they have a choice. That feeling is admiration.

    Where there’s admiration and respect, and a healthy amount of fear, the lubrication will follow. This is the kind of man one’s father would choose for his daughter; someone who could stand shoulder to shoulder with him. Indeed, everybody I know who has that sort of feeling for her husband is either still with him, or felt stupid when she lost him.

    When considering my own situation, this is why I’m still with my husband. I respect him. I feel rather fortunate that he allows me to write about my feelings and adventures, but if he didn’t allow it, I wouldn’t, and I would still be with him. He’s one of the best men I know.

    It’s only a minority of men who don’t have some level of erectile dysfunction over 45 or so. For normal guys, the fact that the wife has aged has a lot to do with that. Marriages in the past and in non feminist areas survive and usually happily so, despite this physical reality. Western women should ask themselves why that is and what in the hell unreality their heads are in that makes them think they’re entitled to mutual super-lust forever.

    Women are more guilty of wrecking the situation than men are because men just have unrealistic looks standards that ultimately give way when the hand vs. live flesh dilema gets solved at maybe 30 at the latest. Women have unrealistic behavioral standards for men and unrealistic views of their own value and the timeline for that, and unrealistic demands based on how they are told by Hollywood that they should feel about their husband.

    I’m sure even some of the guys here would be more willing to actually date a less than beautiful woman if said women had something more to offer than their fat ugly asses.

    It’s nigh impossible though, to find a western woman who would be willing to date a guy who was admirable and strong, but just doesn’t have a grasp of game. God forbid he should like, pay attention to her and be concerned whether she is having a good morning the next day.

    LikeLike


  29. on February 16, 2011 at 6:09 pm Death vajra

    @Ryan

    In my experience, rejecting a sexual advance from a woman is about the worst thing you can do to her self-esteem. She will never forget it. Women believe all men want to have sex all the time. They believe it is them who ultimately control when sex happens.

    LikeLike


  30. on February 16, 2011 at 6:10 pm nick eastwood

    Hey guys sorry to thread jack but I can use some advice. Met a stripper on tuesday we hung out had some drinks and made out a bit. F close was impossible because we both don’t like alone and i’m too cheap to pay for a hotel. She definitely was down though.

    So here’s the problem, she invited me to the club shes working at tonight and i fear this is the biggest shit test i’ve ever seen in my life. I mean shes genuinely into me but i feel like strip clubs are are the most beta environments in the world, and for a guy that never spends money on women i feel tonight can go pretty badly.

    so to sum up these are my main concerns.

    Will me even showing up make me look like a beta orbiter bitch?
    will me not tipping her at all make me look like a cheap asshole?
    Should i flake? i still haven’t confirmed with her that i’m going

    again sorry for stealing but this is the best game resource i know of.
    Thanks in advance guys

    [Editor: Safest bet: Don’t go. This is a shit test. There is a strong chance she will see you as a customer and that will kill it.
    If you do go, you must ABSOLUTELY refrain from tipping her. That would be the death kiss for any seduction. Position yourself so your back is to the stage she dances on and chat up the bartender and other girls. Act surprised when she sidles up to you to say hello. Then tell her you have to get going but you and her could meet after her shift at your favorite bar.]

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  31. on February 16, 2011 at 6:13 pm pimpan

    Many women get insulted when they decide to let a guy in and he doesn’t take the opportunity. Lucky if you get a pulse after that.

    LikeLike


  32. on February 16, 2011 at 6:16 pm blert

    The modern American woman expects to receive sexual advances early and often.

    If you’ve never been restrained by a woman — you’re moving too slow.

    Gals watch stuff like Mad Men and expect you to match the hedonism — else assume that you’re functionally gay and it’s time to shift gears to LJBF.

    I just can’t fathom the orbiting mind-set.

    LikeLike


  33. on February 16, 2011 at 6:17 pm Death vajra

    I used to be involved with a woman who would reject my sexual advances all the time (headache et al). Then, once evey 2 weeks, she would eKe me up at 3am and expect me to perform, because she was in the mood. Typical. Anyway, she lives with her cat now.

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  34. on February 16, 2011 at 6:21 pm Death vajra

    @Nick,

    ask her what time she’s working until, then show up 20 minutes before that. Take the money you save on her lap dances and get a hotel. Or better yet, first and last on a apartment.

    LikeLike


  35. on February 16, 2011 at 6:23 pm Evil Alpha

    Nick Eastwood.

    Just from the sound of you. You will screw it up at the strip club. If you must and that’s a big if… see her tonight, tell her to meet you somewhere else after her shift. Also if a hotel is out of the question and both of you don’t live alone exactly where do you plan on fucking???

    LikeLike


  36. on February 16, 2011 at 4:29 pm Samson

    Pure, feral lust is a necessary prerequisite to romantic love. A love not undergirded by animal lust is not a romantic love at all.

    I would have expected that you were familiar with The Four Loves and the associated Greek concepts. Short: The above depends on what you think “love” is. I suggest there is a difference between “feral lust”- which is *not* a component of real love – and the healthy sexual desire that undergirds a strong marriage.

    LikeLike


  37. on February 16, 2011 at 6:36 pm RRRRRRRicko

    @Nicole – just wanted to mention that was one of the better posts I’ve read in a while. It’s what men should be striving TO BE to have the women they really want and have them stick around (if they so choose)

    LikeLike


  38. on February 16, 2011 at 6:39 pm seaswan

    This article was delivered in my time of need. Every paragraph is useful. I noticed it was probably the first time that Chateau gave advice to his prey– women,
    “And if you are a woman who wants a faithful man as a lover, you’re better off having a relationship with a man from your family or community circle.”
    Good article, thanks Chateau, more advice to women are welcomed.

    LikeLike


  39. on February 16, 2011 at 6:40 pm Selig

    Durr is right. A girl who puts out on the first date will have done the same thing many, many times before.

    LikeLike


  40. on February 16, 2011 at 6:46 pm Durr

    Right, so why would you want to stick you dick in that? I don’t get the point of this entire post.

    What you presume to be her unbridled passion is just her low barrier for dropping her panties for pretty much any dude.

    LikeLike


  41. on February 16, 2011 at 6:48 pm Me

    “Another way to look at this: Women get stronger tingles for strange and mysterious cock than they do for familiar and friendly cock.”

    That’s 10 more points for the silent secret weirdos. Don’t conform, gents!

    LikeLike


  42. on February 16, 2011 at 6:52 pm Death vajra

    @ selig, durr

    that’s not necessarily true. Reletively chaste women will drop their pants if they’re convinced nobody will find out. Ask Pablo at any given vacation resort.

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  43. on February 16, 2011 at 6:53 pm Evil Alpha

    “Evil alpha I like how you can define my success with women based on one post. Clearly you are a cool guy.”

    You are frantic and overly sensitive. You asked for advice, not to be coddled.

    LikeLike


  44. on February 16, 2011 at 6:53 pm LostSailor

    In my city, if I take out a 25 girl for a first date on a Saturday night and I DONT try to fuck her, she’ll never speak to me again.

    This is true. Only last week a young, mid-20s woman of my acquaintance–Irish, dance teacher in NY, tight body, so-so face, maybe high 6 low 7–was complaining to her GFs in a pub that she was insulted when a first date she had recently didn’t try to fuck her, just a relatively chaste kiss goodnight.

    Lesson: you gotta always make the attempt. It may not succeed, but they’re never forgive not making the effort.

    LikeLike


  45. on February 16, 2011 at 7:00 pm Evil Alpha

    @Selig

    “Durr is right. A girl who puts out on the first date will have done the same thing many, many times before.”

    Yup.

    LikeLike


  46. on February 16, 2011 at 7:05 pm peckerwood

    Durr does raise an interesting point. But I think all us super-geniuses can figure out the nuances. If you tap it on the first night and it’s tight, then you know it’s right. If you enter a gaping chasm on the first night, then you know you must take flight.

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  47. on February 16, 2011 at 7:06 pm Death vajra

    If she’s done it many times before, she did it once for the first time.

    LikeLike


  48. on February 16, 2011 at 7:11 pm Durr

    @ Death vajra,

    solid reasoning, but the chances you’re getting a girl who’s done it multiple times are exponentially higher than a girl who’s doing it for the 1st time.

    LikeLike


  49. on February 16, 2011 at 7:15 pm Death vajra

    @durr

    it’s 2011, no matter what you do, chances are you’re gettin a girl that’s done it multiple times

    LikeLike


  50. on February 16, 2011 at 5:17 pm Ryan

    I can’t help but have the suspicion that he initially makes these “unsubstantiated observations” while being aware of the research, only to present the scientific evidence later on; thus showing he’s been “subsequently validated” by official testing.

    I say this mainly because I’ve noticed some relatively old studies that he nevertheless treats as somewhat new. And I’d imagine he was familiar with most of them when they first came out, that he’s got a keen eye on the psych/evo-psych field publications about sexual dynamics.

    Not that this would invalidate any of his points. I wouldn’t have brought it up here if this time I didn’t happen to be ethically opposed to premarital sex (which, I’ll admit, does defy instinct).

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  51. on February 16, 2011 at 7:18 pm Anon

    If she’s done it many times before, she did it once for the first time

    ——————————————–

    In a major coastal city, the chances of you being the first are exceedingly unlikely.

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  52. on February 16, 2011 at 7:18 pm blert

    The crazy idea that you’re going to run into virgin poon aged 22 is nuts unless she’s been institutionalized for ugliness.

    The pill, IUD, and the condom have destroyed virginity, classic.

    Deal with your grief.

    BTW, I’ve worked virgins and I can tell you the downside is as great as any upside you might conjure.

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  53. on February 16, 2011 at 7:22 pm Death vajra

    Ha ha, ‘deal with my grief’? Whadya think I’m doing here?

    LikeLike


  54. on February 16, 2011 at 7:28 pm Durr

    Well yeah no girl out there is gonna be a virgin BUT there’s a difference between a decent girl who’s had less than 3 partners and a barhopping slut who’s had like 50.

    The girl who’s had 3 might make you wait longer but at least she’s gonna be of higher quality.

    Aren’t there studies out there how sex makes women’s brains secrete oxytocin and that makes them bind emotionally to their partners? The more they do it, the less they have this ability to bind, and their brain chemistry gets fucked up.

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  55. on February 16, 2011 at 7:31 pm Good Luck Chuck

    Quite the paradox….

    LikeLike


  56. on February 16, 2011 at 7:32 pm Doug1

    God, where else in the blogosphere do you get real words like “immane” thrown in entirely in context, as part of a non scholarly rip on a topic of popular interest???

    LikeLike


  57. on February 16, 2011 at 7:35 pm Death vajra

    Unless they’re 35. Then they wanna bind like yesterday

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  58. on February 16, 2011 at 5:41 pm Ryan

    I’d actually be a little curious as to his view on denying sex to a girl who asks for it. Not so much if he’d practice it himself, but whether he would in any circumstance advocate this to guys as a way of gaining the dominant hand over a chick — long-term or short.

    I get the feeling he might dismiss it as a good way to get disrespected and cheated on, or something. I wouldn’t think it could work on the majority of females more than once or just sporadically.

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  59. on February 16, 2011 at 8:07 pm AR

    Anyone????

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  60. on February 16, 2011 at 8:17 pm Ryan

    Death vajra,

    In my experience, rejecting a sexual advance from a woman is about the worst thing you can do to her self-esteem. She will never forget it. Women believe all men want to have sex all the time. They believe it is them who ultimately control when sex happens.

    So to sum up:

    A) This could then serve as a possibly much-needed neg for a dwindling relationship in which the girl’s ego has gotten out of hand.

    B) You’ll become a legend (apparently).

    C) You will have utterly mind-fucked her.

    pimpan,

    Many women get insulted when they decide to let a guy in and he doesn’t take the opportunity. Lucky if you get a pulse after that.

    So, again, it could serve the same function as a neg. But if she knows you’ve got a religious conviction against it, the “blow” would mostly spin around in her hamster wheel as she tries to reconcile her narcissistic self-image w/your refusal to budge. Her pride will cause her to accept that you’re just incredibly principled and strong-willed, but not without leaving room for mysterious self-doubt. Further, she will be subsequently drawing up all sorts of schemes to shit-test your integrity. In other words, she can’t get you out of her mind or her plans.

    For the record, I’ve done it. (I’m Catholic.) Never got dumped for it. For the most part, the ones who just can’t “get” religion will outwardly question their sexiness… while they internally plot to “beat you” (figuratively, that is). So I suppose, in light of that, if you try this on the basis of a permanent, non-negotiable ethical code, you had better make damn sure you won’t cave. ‘Cuz that would mean she “outsmarts” you, overpowers you, and “wins”.

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  61. on February 16, 2011 at 8:22 pm Rum

    It is OK to use the word “immane” as long as no one tries to immanetize the eschaton. At least in the strret where it might scare the horses.

    LikeLike


  62. on February 16, 2011 at 8:34 pm A WOMAN

    Regarding feral lust, in cultures where arranged marriages are the norm, you genreally have a young couple agreeing to marry because their families want them to. There’s no huge demand that the potential spouse be “hot” and lust inducing. Easy on the eyes and healthy? Sure. But the concern is more how both sides fit into the families of the other and how they can further the financial, societal and familial goals of both families.

    The couples ease into a romantic attraction AFTER they get married. Of course, in the cases where they are both virgins (quite common), I suppose they are so frustrated and repressed that the wedding night could spark “feral lust” within them, but who knows?

    The approach to “love and marriage” is just so pragmatic under those circumstances that something as fleeting as “lust” is not even taken into consideration. It is assumed that as long as both bride and groom are healthy and generally physically acceptable, a sexual attraction will natural arise, even it not feral, wild and intense.

    Such cultures also have low divorce rates.

    *

    @ AR

    “I am a 22 year old virgin fresh outta college. I’ve never had a gf or so much as a blowjob.

    Only the 5-6 girls seem to ever be interested in me. I’m 5’7 and lift weights like a mofo, weighing around 180 lbs. But to the pretty girls I’m furniture.”

    If I may…. a person of 5’7 stature should not be lifting weights like a mofo, but rather lifting them moderately.

    The reason being is that if you bulk up, your height being what it is, will give the effect of you being “stout” rather than “buff”.

    For a man 5’7, a lean, muscle-toned look is preffered to “buffy and bulky”.

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  63. on February 16, 2011 at 6:34 pm nick eastwood

    Thanks for the advice i was thinking pretty much the same thing. Man I love this blog. I will not go and try to meet up with her after her shift. I’d hate to go there and look like a sucker. If you’re ever in my area i will gladly buy you a beer!

    Evil alpha I like how you can define my success with women based on one post. Clearly you are a cool guy.

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  64. on February 16, 2011 at 8:49 pm Death vajra

    By the way Ryan, even if you find a woman who ‘gets’ religion, she’s not jerking off to guys like Joseph of Arimathea

    LikeLike


  65. on February 16, 2011 at 6:55 pm nick eastwood

    I was going to write a mean response but it wouldn’t contribute anything positive here.

    Skittles for all!

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  66. on February 16, 2011 at 9:01 pm Anonymous

    “jerking off to guys like Joseph of Arimathea”

    hilarious

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  67. on February 16, 2011 at 9:03 pm Rarfy

    nice analysis, blogger

    LikeLike


  68. on February 16, 2011 at 9:04 pm Born Again Alpha

    @AR. Dude! You’re a 22 yo virgin. At this point conventional approaches aren’t going to help you. The only way you’re going to get comfortable being sexual with hot women is to hire an escort. If you’re description is accurate it will work well for you. Then your first few times with amateur girls will go a lot more smoothly.

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  69. on February 16, 2011 at 9:12 pm hmmm

    “The more I think about it, having a daughter is the worst thing that can happen to a man.”

    this is fucked up. I hope that you don’t plan on having kids unless you get serious therapy.

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  70. on February 16, 2011 at 9:34 pm Fubsy

    Steve Martin relates his betaness in his autobiography:

    “One week I opened the show for Linda Ronstadt: she sang barefoot on a raised stage and wore a silver lame’ dress that stopped a millimeter below her panties, causing the floor of the Troubadour to be slick with drool.
    Linda and I saw each other for a while, but I was so intimidated by her talent and street smarts that, after the
    ninth date, she said, ‘Steve, do you often date girls and not try to sleep with them?’ We parted chaste.”

    More recently Anne Heche left him for Ellen Degeneres, lol.

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  71. on February 16, 2011 at 9:41 pm Lara

    AR,
    You should set your sights a little lower than you have been and build up some confidence through your interactions with those women. You might actually end up liking one of them.

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  72. on February 16, 2011 at 9:54 pm Rum

    Ryan
    Re: Religion Game.
    Check out the life and teachings of the Founders of the LDS.(The Mormons)
    J. Smith and B. Young both perfected the scheme of “Hey girl, if you wrap your sex around me I guarantee that you will experience Heaven” – opening, so to speak.The girls did not need much more coaxing than that, apparently, because those early Saints were by all accounts Uber-Alphas.
    I am not telling you to compromize your idealistic aspirations. But I would suggest that any path of Transcendence you follow that does not allow you get your dick wet is not going to work out very well – for anybody. Not for you-a straight guy, not for the horny simple minded girls, not anybody.
    Too much chasity can be a serious sin in some circumstances. You might be the one here who is trying to immanentize the eschalon.

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  73. on February 16, 2011 at 10:00 pm Feh

    “Be fruitful and multiply.”

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  74. on February 16, 2011 at 10:12 pm Toby

    Romantic love always involve sexual desire or lust. Always.

    Abstinence should be a choice and not something you are compelled to do.

    An alpha can easily choose abstain, driving his girl crazy. A beta is forced to abstain, driving him crazy.

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  75. on February 16, 2011 at 10:29 pm bowman

    Some of you who are arguing that a girl who’d be willing to spread on the first date is more likely to be a slut are right, BUT that is not the point of the post and the study it refers to. The study explicitly excludes individuals who aren’t interested in a serious relationship. In general, the females under this category are known as sluts. Amayrayt?

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  76. on February 16, 2011 at 10:29 pm Rum

    Person driven crazy = somewhere a wrong turn was made.
    Crazy sexless beta guy? I bet he can afford an adequate supply of whores in the windward-islands. Inside their fallen down huts and fallen down cocanut leaf bras & panties his own personal sanity is in grabbing distance. Amen. Therefore, his craziness is mostly the result of his own stoopid, unnaturally restrained personal choices.

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  77. on February 16, 2011 at 10:35 pm bowman

    AR
    Find the sluttiest girl you know and fuck her. At least you’ll know what sex is and you can go from there. Although many may disagree with me, I’d advise you to just fuck a prostitute to teach you a lesson: pussy is pussy.

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  78. on February 16, 2011 at 8:39 pm Death vajra

    @ Ryan,

    I think it was CH who said something about this a few months back. From what I remember, he said something to the effect that there is nothing a woman respects more than a man who is in a position to reject her granting him sexual access. It stands to reason, as this is the ultimate display of higher value.

    I lived with a long-term girl for 3 years and, as a rule, I always kept myself in a state of utter desirelessness. That is, I maintained a power position throughout the relationship by never letting her know I needed her sex or even wanted it. This included rejecting her advances on several occasions.

    In a live-in, long term relationship, I found this to be affective, especially with this particular cunt. Sometimes you have to drop this bomb on her ego to maintain the balance of power.

    But, when dating new girls, you can’t forget that the whole objective is to gain sexual access. Sure, you have to throw negs etc, but when she decides your worthy of her puss, you’re supposed to take it. If you don’t, she will become confused and possibly scared.

    If you are spending your time and money on courting a woman and you don’t bang her when you get the chance, don’t expect another one.

    She will file you under psycho

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  79. on February 16, 2011 at 10:46 pm Kiwiguy

    OT. Readers might like to visit this poll about whether London School of Economics should have invited Thilo Sarrazin to a debate.

    Should Thilo Sarrazin have been invited to speak at the German Symposium?

    LikeLike


  80. on February 16, 2011 at 10:49 pm Dreamer

    I’m confused, as one said earlier, a girl with the lowest notch count is going to have the most loyalty. It been said here along with a major post that showed a document that the ones with the lowest divorce rates is from a virgin. That kinda come into conflict with first date lays, even for college age girls. Willingness to put out on one date versus with almost no history are almost exclusive to each other.

    Unless you’re her first few dates she ever had or have that much game. Game that can get a virgin to put out after one date. To be honest, that’s sounds like a level that is pretty discouraging.

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  81. on February 16, 2011 at 8:52 pm blert

    A woman scorned is a nasty furious beast.

    I once had the displeasure to not pursue the daughter of my ( nasty, competitive, female ) co-worker.

    As much as I would’ve loved to bang her — office politics dictated that I NOT do so.

    The daughter, consequently, did everything she could to make my life hell. Fortunately, being only a college freshman and sent off to school, she didn’t have the opportunity to extract her full measure of anger.

    That was a no win scenario.

    [ And low count poon, too. Tight? She was trying to join the Olympic Team — really. ]

    And the mother? Fully as vicious as one might imagine. A divorced cougar chasing dollars and status like a pro.

    She has the survival instincts of the mythical Ripley.

    That her daughter came my way? Her mother, of course.

    Does that sound like a recent post?

    ‘Nuff said.

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  82. on February 16, 2011 at 11:02 pm filrabat

    @RE, and all

    That’s the whole problem with the hoop-up scene participants. They start with the notion that getting laid is the end-all be-all of life, then build their whole skyscraper on that foundation. Problem is — it’ simply ain’t so!

    Anyone who thinks it’s impossible to be happy without sex is being GAMED by their own neurochemicals and DNA that says “Screw her! Screw her! Screw her!”. The pop culture notion that it’s possible to die of virginity is just laughable. The only way that’s possible is if one commits suicide on account of their virginity BECAUSE they were BRAINWASHED by all this pop culture propaganda that says “21 year old virgin men are worthless, and so are 40 and even 80 year old men, blah blah blah”. LMAO, that’s more omega than anything that an 40-year-old obese WoW-playing, living-in-mom’s basement virgin! In fact, the REAL ALPHAS in life are NOT the sexual alphas – they’re the people who found out that you don’t have go get laid. People who don’t give a shit about even sex, let alone romance, are the ones in command of their own destiny!

    Here’s your clue, people!: A REAL alpha doesn’t depend on his numbers in any sense! They see that it’s just animal urges and nothing more. They also know that the surest way to sabotage TRUE self-respect is to continue to enslave yourself to sex! (no doubt the pop culture meme “if it feels good, do it” is to blame here, but that’s a different story). A FAKE ALPHA just can’t wrap his head around the notion that refusing to suppress the urge to fuck makes us little more than baboons with oversized brains (WTF kind of “manliness” or “self-respect” is THAT??)

    So Game Practitioners, picture a huge DNA double helix wrapped around our hands tied behind your back, and a huge coil around your neck. THAT’S YOU!

    Enjoy drinking the pop-culture Kool-Aid. Me? I’m happy to be celibate and PROUD OF IT!

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  83. on February 16, 2011 at 11:29 pm Q.S.

    This is why you so-called studs have to pound your women like a gypsy on a tambourine in order to get off.

    http://circumstitions.com/Sexuality.html

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  84. on February 16, 2011 at 9:46 pm Cape Codder

    I absolutely love the Network references and how you weave them in. That scene was my favorite.

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  85. on February 16, 2011 at 11:56 pm A. Paleocon

    Immane? Come on, you can’t use that word. If less than one in 10,000 people know it, which I’m pretty sure is the case, then it doesn’t exist.

    Nice study. As for the first finding discussed – great use of deep skepticism to dig down to the truth. No few social sciences oxen could be gored, if that kind of rigor was applied.

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  86. on February 17, 2011 at 12:04 am Death vajra

    How come some people have part of their dick cut off when they’re born? Who the hell started that?

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  87. on February 17, 2011 at 12:16 am A. Paleocon

    Yeah, doesn’t seem necessary. Why not err on the side of keeping the various parts of the dick, uh, on. Unless one considers it a serious religious sacrament. I’d be pretty damn resistant to seeing it done to any son of mine.

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  88. on February 16, 2011 at 10:29 pm Ryan

    Rum,

    What Feh said.

    Not sure where you’re getting all this talk about “Transcendence”. Nobody’s idealizing sex here; and there are perfectly justifiable non-religious arguments in favor of withholding sex until marriage. Athol Kay is an atheist and he advocates it, I think. I assure you that real Christianity has no qualms about allowing guys to “get their dicks wet”. Just gotta be married. Also, by definition, the notion of “too much chastity” makes no sense.

    Just so you know, I’m not talking about “Religion Game” either. Hardly anyone would stick to this principle if it were merely some attempt to manipulate a woman. Any guy will likely need a much firmer basis than pure self-interest. Attraction, however, could be a potential side-effect.

    By the way, my curiosity re: his opinion is mostly when it comes to the occasional refusal of sex, not long-term, premarital abstinence (which for him would amount to lifelong celibacy).

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  89. on February 17, 2011 at 12:37 am Blessent mon coeur

    Solution for men: Leave home, go far away, accomplish something, return and seduce and plunder the first hot chick you meet at the welcome home party.

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  90. on February 17, 2011 at 12:43 am College Slacker

    It’s definitely very important to get the sex out of the way asap. While I think it is a good point that many sluts bang on the first date, thus lowering her value, in my experience I have also banged a couple of non-sluts (based on their rep) on a night of drinking filled with excellent attraction building and gone on to good relationships with them. I think the sweetspot, though, is when you bang her the second or third time you see her.

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  91. on February 17, 2011 at 12:52 am Rum

    QS

    you are dramatically and spectularly wrong about everything.. After the appocolypse, the only currencys that will be worth a dam will be 9mm shells in large boxes , huge cans of cooked meat and baked beans, and fermented pears… And vials of cialis. The CIA uses it every day of the week in Irag and Afgannyfukiingstand for trying to bribe the tallybann. THey pass it out to the tallibaann like candy.

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  92. on February 17, 2011 at 12:57 am (The Real) Dreamer

    I can’t even conceive of having sex on the first date… or even on the first few.

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  93. on February 17, 2011 at 1:20 am Dreamer

    ^^^ We need to figure out new names..

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  94. on February 17, 2011 at 1:30 am Rodsmith

    “marries an orbiter”

    Worth the price of admission. Love when that happens.

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  95. on February 17, 2011 at 1:31 am C

    In my opinion, sluts can fall in love just like any other girl. You know the expression, “you can’t turn a ho into a housewife”? It’s not true. You can… it’s just really fucking hard.

    Boredom is the number one reson d’etre for cock hopping. The trick for making a slut fall in love for you is to make her feel more powerful drama than she’s ever felt before. which is tough, because she’s been with some real assholes. But if you can be the biggest asshole she’s met so far (be creative!), she’ll fall deeply in love with you. In your absence, she’ll just go on chasing the dragon, trying to match the high of the alpha-est of men she’s banged.

    Some of you will proclaim not to want sluts. That you are only after good girls. Friends, the advice I give above applies to these girls, too. A lot of the disillusionment that comes out on this blog is the result of guys discovering that the difference between the good girls and bad girls paper thin. That they can treat the good girls like dirty whores and the girls love it. Sucks, but it’s true.

    So go forth! And fuck sluts! They’re your only option, really.

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  96. on February 17, 2011 at 1:53 am Tairos

    @Lara

    Yeah, really, some of us would be thrilled to have 5-6s interested in them. Sympathy evaporated.

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  97. on February 17, 2011 at 4:48 am Jerry

    @Dreamer

    Good point. With the real virgins you can, however, get them into their panties at your place on the first or second date.

    That has almost the same effect.

    @Nick

    The professional stripper has undoubtedly sold herself to a number of other men. It might be a great ego fix to nail her for free, but that kind is addicted to sex or she wouldn’t be in that field in the first place.

    When you have a place of your own and ready cash, this kind won’t be worth spending more than 20 minutes on, which is what some of her “not necessarily beta” customers are doing before they go back to hotter non-slut girlfriends that nobody else is getting a piece of.

    Think about it. She becomes your LTR girlfriend and then you allow omegas to slobber all over her chest and let her grind into their unwashed jeans?

    For me to go near a professional stripper, as a client or otherwise (I see no difference because I’m product oriented), she would have to be a 10 and freshly showered just coming onto her shift.

    The smell of a professional who’s been working on other men is atrocious. Especially down there.

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  98. on February 17, 2011 at 5:08 am Jerry

    I realize that some here have had professional strippers as long term girlfriends. I can respect that. Like Xslpat has said, it is probably genetic that some guys prefer sluts (or “experienced women”) while others prefer the opposite. I’m not even interested in having a woman strip for me who’s stripped for me before. 😉

    I also have a hard time seeing how an alpha would let any of his girls perform for other men. Again, it must be genetic. Some alphas apparently don’t care if some of their women spread the love around (they aren’t genetically programmed to be concerned about parental lineage).

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  99. on February 17, 2011 at 5:31 am Anonymous

    Wench, give up the bootie and we’ll see if there’s a relationship to be had… bring da movies, too. (Oh, and there may be Skittles in it for you if you’re good.)

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  100. on February 17, 2011 at 6:09 am xsplat

    Walksintoabar

    We went back to my place, I put on a movie and we were kissing but I couldn’t seem to escalate because she’d pull away every time.

    You need to study up on how to escalate.

    If you learn only one aspect of game, learn how to escalate.

    Read the archives.

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  101. on February 17, 2011 at 6:43 am Jerry

    I remember walking around central Amsterdam checking out the sites when a young prostitute yelled to her same-age boyfriend “Honey, my shift will be over in about 20 minutes. One more john and we can go home”. They were both about 18.

    He may have been getting the goods for free, but I saw him as a lower beta.

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  102. on February 17, 2011 at 7:56 am AR

    guys thanks for the advice. I guess a hooker is in my future.

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  103. on February 17, 2011 at 8:51 am theprivateman

    Women do have problems with false expectations of romance. Emotional pornography has really screwed with their heads.

    Think Lifetime channel movies. Think romance novels. Think romantic comedies from Hollywood. Think vampire books. But it’s still pornography, a fantasy in words and images. I am convinced that women actually expect their relationship fantasies to be born out in real life. I see proof of that in womens’ online dating profiles. “Where is my Prince Charming?” reads a common headline.

    So here we have a grown women looking for a fairytale. But on weekends with the gal pals, it’s off to the latest Hollywood romantic comedy where that fairytale is reinforced as “reality” in her mind.

    But it conflicts with that feral lust thing. No wonder a woman’s rationalization hamster is always tired.

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  104. on February 17, 2011 at 9:03 am Jerry

    The new film “Purple Violets” is a great example.

    Two withering violets in their thirties meet two great looking former high school classmates who have become outrageously successful (more than men in their early thirties could ever expect to be).

    The men (who were alpha Manhattanites at the beginning of the story) then develop one-itis for their old high school flames (emphasis on “old”) and chase them for two hours while the women steadfastly hold them back, with one woman making a man promise to “never cheat on her again” like he did in high school and the other woman making the other man wait a few more years while she “finds herself”. The film ends with this woman finally letting herself into the man’s Hamptons mansion and sitting next to him on his private beach where he is sitting all alone pining for her.

    I’m not exaggerating the plot description here.

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  105. on February 17, 2011 at 9:27 am Evil Alpha

    Jerry,

    That is a funny ass story. Hooker boyfriends are always the betas otherwise they’d be pimps.

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  106. on February 17, 2011 at 9:32 am Evil Alpha

    @AR

    “Only the 5-6 girls seem to ever be interested in me. “

    Then practice game on them. Ignore the hooker advice.

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  107. on February 17, 2011 at 9:37 am Evil Alpha

    “some guys prefer sluts (or “experienced women”)

    Jerry,

    False dichotomy. As I have said before… 1000 dicks 1 time or 1 dick 1000 times is the same level of practice. I don’t do LTR’s with inexperienced women or sluts.

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  108. on February 17, 2011 at 10:13 am Rollo Tomassi

    Iron Rule of Tomassi #3

    Any woman who makes you wait for sex, or by her actions implies she is making you wait for sex; the sex is NEVER worth the wait.

    I’ve been c&p’ing this for the past decade; When a woman makes you wait for sex you are not her highest priority. Sexuality is spontaneous chemical reaction between two parties, not a process of negotiation. It’s sex first, then relationship, not the other way around. A woman who wants to fuck you will find a way to fuck you. She will fly across the country, crawl under barbwire, climb in through your second story bedroom window, fuck the sh!t out of you and wait patiently inside your closet if your wife comes home early from work – women who want to fuck will find a way to fuck. The girl who tells you she wants a relationship first is the same girl who fucked the hot guy in the foam cannon party in Cancun on spring break just half an hour after first meeting him.

    If a girl is that into you she’ll fuck regardless of ASD or having her friends in the room videotaping it at a frat party. All women can be sluts, you just have to be the right guy to bring it out in them, and this happens before you go back to her place. If you have to plead your case cuddling and spooning on the bed, getting the occasional peck on the cheek to make her comfortable, you need to go back to square one and start fresh.

    Sexual arousal is by definition uncomfortable. Any pleas for comfort, security or familiarity are anti-seductive; it desexualizes you and kills the very necessary sexual tension.

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  109. on February 17, 2011 at 10:24 am Lara

    True Rollo. If a woman is withholding sex it is because she can easily control herself around you and isn’t all that hot for you.

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  110. on February 17, 2011 at 10:25 am Lara

    Somehow I always managed to play hard to get with guys I was lukewarm about.

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  111. on February 17, 2011 at 10:39 am BetterBeta

    @Evil Alpha
    “Then practice game on them. Ignore the hooker advice.”

    Why not do both? Get some poon – it doesn’t matter how. The more you get, the more relaxed and manly you will be.

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  112. on February 17, 2011 at 10:55 am Rollo Tomassi

    Women rationales for waiting are a filibuster while she assess the viability of better options. Genuine feral desire cannot be negotiated; it’s on or it isn’t. Sex based on negotiated terms is obligation.

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  113. on February 17, 2011 at 11:05 am Gorbachev

    Lara,

    I always have sex as soon as possible (almost always, with an important exception); this was a lesson I learned early on.

    You can debate the whys and wherefores afterwards.

    Everything about a relationship hinges on whether or not the chick will sleep with you.

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  114. on February 17, 2011 at 11:06 am JAFO

    AR
    5’7″/185 is a BMI of nearly 30. If your body fat is low, you’re a fireplug. Lay off.
    Game the 5/6’s to get your chops.

    LikeLike


  115. on February 17, 2011 at 11:18 am Anton

    Rollo,

    Truer words have never been written.

    Lara,

    Thanks for the honest confirmation.

    LikeLike


  116. on February 17, 2011 at 11:29 am Jerry

    But sometimes you can’t do the first date close because you’ve got someone else penciled in for 23:00. Scheduling can be a bitch.

    LikeLike


  117. on February 17, 2011 at 11:34 am Schmoe

    Sex robot news, uk:
    http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/features/3231673/My-girlfriend-is-a-robot.html

    LikeLike


  118. on February 17, 2011 at 11:55 am Schmoe

    I’ve had good luck with making women wait. It makes you a challenge to them, unlike most others. When you finally “give in”, Jesus.

    LikeLike


  119. on February 17, 2011 at 11:59 am pimpan

    What’s better: a girl who fucks on the first date or a starfish?

    Follow up question: What’s the difference between a starfish and a fleshlight?

    LikeLike


  120. on February 17, 2011 at 12:29 pm Doug1

    nick eastwood–

    You’ve got to tap that stripper’s ass fast, or she’ll lose her attraction to you. Get a buddy to lend you his room. Get you roommate to vamoose somewhere. Hell just have him be in the living room while you take her to your bedroom.

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  121. on February 17, 2011 at 12:34 pm Lotez

    @ Gorbachev “As soon as you break down the sex door, you’re in. Everything changes.”

    Also, as soon as you break down the “back door”, your relationship get to the much deeper level of closeness. Normally, women don’t give up their butt carelessly unless they feel a deeper connection and trust you.

    If a girl gave up her ass on a 1-2 date, run like a mofo. Or marry her if you are suicidal.

    LikeLike


  122. on February 17, 2011 at 12:42 pm Firepower

    Oxytocin is Truth
    Truth — Oxytocin
    That is all ye know
    and all ye need know

    LikeLike


  123. on February 17, 2011 at 12:44 pm Doug1

    Selig–

    Durr is right. A girl who puts out on the first date will have done the same thing many, many times before.

    Usually, but not always.

    If you haven’t run really tight game on her, building sexual tension and escalating rapidly, from a base of the two of your really clicking, or her feeling that at least, and if you haven’t neutralized her ASD by telling her you can feels she’s a good girl, then yes. Absolutely. If you haven’t done that.

    But if you have, sometimes even fairly good girls will fall the same night.

    Bear in mind the main reason slutty girls will make you wait two or three dates even if they’re real attracted, if they also see you as bf material, is so you won’t think they’re the sluts they actually have been.

    The best thing all around if you’re considering a snl girl as gf material is to maintain at first that you’re indifferent about a girl,s numbers, and “if anything you actually prefer adventurous sex loving girls who’ve been around the block sexually”. You should have or develop a side of you that feels this way if you want to sleep with a lot of girls quickly. Say you like sexy, slutty stories from girls’ pasts. That it turns you on. This is one of the best ways of slowly or often quickly getting an idea of her real numbers.

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  124. on February 17, 2011 at 12:51 pm JT

    @ Nick Eastwood – I have way too much experience with strippers than a decent human should, so I can give you a little help. At least 75% are prostitutes. 50% are heavy drug users. These drugged up hookers are able to hide this fact from you for a fairly long time. So unless you have an “in” into the stripping community to help guide you, I would suggest you stay the hell away.

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  125. on February 17, 2011 at 12:55 pm Lotez

    Here is the ultimate catch that will make your girl never leave you: for every 10 times she cums, you cum only 1 time. That means that a lot of times you will have sex without cuming. In 2-3 months of doing that, and she will say “Thank you” every time you do cum, and will satisfy all and any of your sexual desires/fantasies.

    Every time you cum, she owns a bit of you. If you have control and don’t finish while she is twitching in post-climax, she will feel completely powerless and will dedicate her whole existence to satisfy you somehow.

    True story.

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  126. on February 17, 2011 at 1:01 pm Q.S.

    A quick scan of this pathetic site and it’s clear that 99% of those who post here are part of the problem and not the solution. Idiots full of sound and fury signifying nothing.

    [Editor: Still reeling from spending Valentine’s Day alone, QS? There there. Nothing a little purple saguaro won’t fix.]

    LikeLike


  127. on February 17, 2011 at 1:05 pm Doug1

    Dreamer–

    I’m confused, as one said earlier, a girl with the lowest notch count is going to have the most loyalty. It been said here along with a major post that showed a document that the ones with the lowest divorce rates is from a virgin. That kinda come into conflict with first date lays, even for college age girls. Willingness to put out on one date versus with almost no history are almost exclusive to each other.

    The study seems to have a subjects, college students either entirely or mostly. The average age of college students is about 20. So most of these female subjects won’t have been pumped and dumped than many times yet, on average – even the ones who allowed SNL sex. Also at colleges, SNL sex often isn’t what it is in the big cities. The students often have known each other for awhile in class.

    It also seems to be using a pretty lenient definition of happy, successful relationships. It’s certainly not looking at the rates of marriages lasted 20 years or more, with SNL girls versus virgins or near virgins as The Social Pathologist has done.

    So what the study is showing is that in the case of first date or hookup sex, where BOTH partners were looking for a lasting relationship before the sex occurred, that some lenient definition of a happy relationship of no required duration is just as likely.

    How often are guys who can get hookup sex for girls looking for a lasting relationship when they SNL a girl? How often do guys who are bit marginal on the alpha lie about what they want to get the fast lay? You do the math.

    Also this is ONE study.

    The many studies and data showing that girls with lots of partners are more likely to cheat, more likely to divorce, and less likely to be able to form a deep and lasting pair bond with a guy (really fall in love), are the ones to give weight to – if you’re marriage minded. Find your husband when you’re in your mid 20s or younger, and he’s about 10 or anyway 7 years older, and ready to settle down.

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  128. on February 17, 2011 at 1:16 pm Doug1

    JT

    @ Nick Eastwood – I have way too much experience with strippers than a decent human should, so I can give you a little help. At least 75% are prostitutes. 50% are heavy drug users.

    Yeah, I’ve banged some strippers and flings with them too.

    The heavy drug use is more true at low than high end places. Most strippers in NYC do coke at least some, though not necessarily heavily.

    Most do sometimes do call girl type tricks, but most only do it once in awhile with customers they consider decent looking, for call girl type money.

    Strippers are always sluts, if they’ve been doing it for awhile. It’s just that kind of atmosphere and they have real sluts for co workers and friends. That doesn’t mean they aren’t choosy though, they are.

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  129. on February 17, 2011 at 1:19 pm MeMyselfI

    “Casual dating is dead, replaced by one vast and immane, interwoven, interacting, multivariate, multinational dominion of Don Juans; a system of neverending seduction designed to MAXIMIZE THE SCRAMBLE for mating opportunities, to indulgently reward the winners, and to mercilessly punish the losers. We are living in the Reign of Replicators.”

    If you were to create a self regulating cattle farming system then this is exactly what you’d want to happen as the harvest time nears.

    You would want things to hum along with steady progress until the conditions were _just_ right… and then have the population explode right before you needed to take a load to the butcher. That would be maximum efficiency.

    Notice our planets population count going asymptotic over the last few hundred years…

    The harvest is near. We are replicating like crazy… just as was planned. Soon the herd WILL be culled.

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  130. on February 17, 2011 at 1:22 pm Gorbachev

    I banged an American woman in Korea who I later found out was a stripper and a call girl back home. Who knows, she might have been in Korea, too.

    We saw each other over a month. She was hot – and slutty – and an English teacher. I just assumed she was a hot, slutty English teacher. She was desperate to get properly laid, and had the hardest time finding any men – because all of them (me included) were chasing Asians, given that they’re usually (much) hotter, smarter and classier than the white girls there.

    But she was a pretty cool girl. Slutty. She was fun to hang out with.

    I found out about her real occupation later.

    After having slept with her, let’s say I wasn’t surprised.

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  131. on February 17, 2011 at 1:32 pm Rollo Tomassi

    Roosh was right:

    http://www.rooshv.com/the-future-of-game

    Whereas for night game in the past you had to make out with a girl to decrease the chances she’ll flake, today you have to fuck her. That’s right—to get a first date you have to already have had the one-night stand with her. This is the only way I’ve found that decreases flaking to an acceptable level in even today’s climate. If I only made out with the girl, or god forbid didn’t even kiss her, the odds I will see her again are far from assured.

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  132. on February 17, 2011 at 2:00 pm Good Luck Chuck

    Rollo Tomassi-

    Roosh was right:

    http://www.rooshv.com/the-future-of-game

    Absolutely true.

    These days if you go in with a relationship mentality you’ll get blown out immediately. Women are now programmed to see you as a low value male if you come off as wanting more than just sex in the beginning.

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  133. on February 17, 2011 at 2:02 pm Good Luck Chuck

    I should have said:

    “The hookup culture has trained women to see you as a low value male if you come off as wanting something more than just sex in the beginning”

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  134. on February 17, 2011 at 2:05 pm A WOMAN

    “Women do have problems with false expectations of romance. Emotional pornography has really screwed with their heads.

    Think Lifetime channel movies.”

    Spend a day watching Lifetime. The movies are mainly mysteries/crime thrillers about cheating and murder, cheating and murder, cheating and murder. With most of the criminals being women.

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  135. on February 17, 2011 at 2:42 pm Obstinance Works

    I’ve always wondered about this and have heard time and time again from the conservatives (God bless em) that you need to court and get to know a woman before you can establish a healthy LTR. It also proves to me that women are very easy to fall in and out of love with.

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  136. on February 17, 2011 at 2:47 pm Obstinance Works

    She was hot – and slutty – and an English teacher.

    She was great with those action verbs.

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  137. on February 17, 2011 at 2:51 pm Obstinance Works

    Why don’t you just kill yourself QS you sad listless monkey? And when you do, please provide a live feed online.

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  138. on February 17, 2011 at 2:55 pm Gorbachev

    @Obstinance Works
    She was hot – and slutty – and an English teacher.

    She was great with those action verbs.

    You betcha.

    I’ll give her this: her job(s) educated her good.

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  139. on February 17, 2011 at 3:42 pm Death vajra

    @q.s.

    The problem is honest, good-natured, ‘nice guys’ don’t gain sexual access to women. Sites like these are part of the solution.

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  140. on February 17, 2011 at 5:45 pm Tinderbox

    @ A. Paleocon

    Immane? Come on, you can’t use that word. If less than one in 10,000 people know it, which I’m pretty sure is the case, then it doesn’t exist.

    Tell that to Bill Buckley’s ghost.

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  141. on February 17, 2011 at 5:51 pm Phoenix

    If a girl expects me to fuck her at the end of our first date, and takes it as an insult when I do not, she can plug a dildo in her ass. If she wants to gain value, she can do so by NOT putting out so quickly.

    I don’t like sluts. I also don’t like the fact that they’re tripping on their looks, when feminine beauty is commonplace just like how obesity is.

    If you guys want to fuck women quickly, then let your penis do all the talking. Go with the Apocalypse Opener with 100 girls per night and I’m sure you’ll come across a slut.

    But for me, I’d rather play hard-to-get for a reason – if I’m still attracted to her after 3-4 dates, I’ll get agressive and rip her clothes off. But if I lose too much interest in her by that timeframe (if she’s not on her best behavior), I’ll disappear.

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  142. on February 17, 2011 at 6:16 pm Xander

    AR:

    It’s impossible to say for sure, but you may carry the stench of desperation on you. I agree with the posters here telling you just to bang a couple of 5’s and 6’s and work your way up. You might have to fly to Spain and get a hooker or two to reduce the significance of your first earned bang — you’ll probably function more coolly.

    In my early days of sleeping around I made it a practice to keep a lot of irons in the fire. Openly hit on anything that moves, and let the girls see you doing it. After a while you’ll get one hanger-on, and then another. Keep a coterie of three women around at all times. Once you have enough female attention from lots of different sources, you’ll find it’s pretty easy to sleep with one, and then the other.

    By the way: the reason it’s called the sexual MARKETPLACE is because everyone’s looking for the same thing and trying to get the best bang for their buck. In any given bar where there are significantly more women than men, therefore, there is SOMEONE who will sleep with you. overnight. Ask

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  143. on February 17, 2011 at 8:21 pm Tim

    I don’t care what you do, but one thing you should never do is… immanentize the eschalon. Don’t ever do that.

    LikeLike


  144. on February 17, 2011 at 8:56 pm nick eastwood

    Hey thanks for the advice guys but i really just viewed her as a pump and dump and was surprised by such a fucking devious shit test.

    Ironically I live in nyc and the girl doesn’t seem like the drug using type, but i have some experience with strippers as well and oddly enough they have generally been good.

    Anyway for a quick update i did not go last night night and she called me at 4 am when her shift ended and i didnt pick up. She later texted me “u shulda came 2 my work”

    I was busy ripping engines apart and doing other masculine things so i haven’t wrote back yet

    so things are looking good. i’ll keep whomever is interested updated

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  145. on February 17, 2011 at 9:37 pm samseau

    AR:

    Sleeping with a hooker won’t help you anymore than a porno.

    You are trying to learn how to fuck women, not pay for sex. Getting a girl from the bar to a bedroom is a completely different animal from simply sticking your dick in a wet hole.

    By far and away the most important thing you need to do is improve your verbal game. Start doing those approaches, son. You can also hit dance clubs to work on your physical escalation game.

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  146. on February 17, 2011 at 10:58 pm DirkJohanson

    @ AR Go on backpage.com and do a hooker already. Then you won’t be a virgin, which will be a big help in and of itself.

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  147. on February 17, 2011 at 11:22 pm Anonymous

    I find it interesting the extent you choose to read what you want out of these articles. The article clearly made the point that PEOPLE with many partners were less disposed to being in monogamous and long term relationships. Not WOMEN alone but PEOPLE.

    So going by the very article you chose to cite, alpha men who sleep with a lot of women are equally bad choices for long term partners.

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  148. on February 18, 2011 at 4:05 am Jerry

    @samseau

    You seem to disagree with Dirk and I don’t mean the following to be harsh. I mean this for anyone who makes the conceptual mistakes I will describe below:

    You are inadvertently putting women on a pedestal by implying that the women in bars wouldn’t put out for AR if he followed the advice from “Fooling Golddiggers”. That can be self serving as well. 😉

    You outright implied that the only paid sex available is from professional hookers, who don’t need to be gamed, rather than from your own sister or mother, who presumably would need to be gamed a lot before they agreed to go with AR for $100.

    I don’t mean to sound harsh, but it politically and socially puts women on a pedestal to propagate the Madonna-Whore syndrome while shaming and castigating men who pay for sexual activity (such as stripping) now and then. The Chateau has written that it’s possible for an Alpha to enjoy a good paid stripper now and then.

    While it’s possible you only meant to give AR the excellent advice to stay away from dirty pros, attacking paid sex with clean amateurs most often implies you probably won’t be trying to help Berlusconi with comments anywhere on the net.

    The feminist lurkers here love those who just take this concept for granted because it helps them get laws passed criminalizing men for paying for sex and to get guys like Berlusconi thrown in jail.

    Thankfully, I’ve never seen anyone here argue that there is a clear separation, especially when it comes to skanks in bars. The arguments with me have been along the lines I describe below:

    Now once you agree that there is no clear separation between dirty pro “hookers” and diva in a bar, there are two other feminist-inspired fallacies I sometimes see propagated here.

    1) The crazy idea that it doesn’t take game to convince a normal woman to do something for cash that she has never before accepted cash for.

    2) The bullshit idea that a woman who’s been paid for a sexual activity won’t respect the man and certainly not burn with desire to marry him and make herself an “honest woman.”

    Let’s take the first:

    How much game would it take for a man to pay your adult sister or your mother $100 for a roll in the hay?

    Think about it.

    The answer is probably “an enormous amount of game would be required”.

    The same is true for any attempt by any guy to ask a perfectly normal woman, a non-professional who might have whore fantasies, to consider, for the first time in her life, to do something for a nominal amount of cash.

    Let’s say the sister/mother analogy didn’t do it for you because you found it too insulting (didn’t mean it that way).

    Then how much game would it take to get Michelle Obama in bed for $200?

    How much game would it take to convince Brittany Spears to go to bed for a gram of cocaine?

    While 75% of American strippers will moonlight on the side, is it true or not true that most of the cleaner and better looking ones will only roll for their favorite 1% of the guys they meet?

    The answer is that the money is just a prop or at least these women can get that money from any man they want to get it from. So why wouldn’t they sell themselves only to the buyers with the most game?

    In 99% of paid sex opportunities (the average young woman in a bar but not the professional whores), the man has to:

    a) Open and get accepted into a conversation (applies to Brittany, Michelle and your Mom but not a pro stripper).

    b) Establish attraction (applies to all, including pro strippers)

    c) Establish preselection and DHVs (applies to all) – No amount of money will get normal upper class women to a man’s place if they don’t admire him and trust that going to his place will be safe.

    d) Enormous persuasive power to get a woman to exercise a latent whore fantasy that no man has dared to try to get her to exercise (or yet succeeded)

    e) Execution (implementation) – Knowing how far a woman or group of normal women will go the first time. Sometimes they will agree only to watch the man strip and laugh at him (doesn’t mean they will disrespect him after they do this – read on).

    2)

    The reason why a common professional disrespects “johns” is because she’s so low on the totem pole that she has to disrespect those who would stoop so low as to pay to be with her.

    Women with more self respect tend to feel the opposite when they wake up one morning and realize that some guy exercised a latent whore fantasy. They’re like “OMG, what did I do? He must think so little of me now”.

    Then they try to win the guy’s respect.

    There’s also the added advantage of the woman now being comfortable and used to the idea of being undressed with that man. It fits the theory on the psychology of the first night lay quite well.

    Another aspect is that paying (or jokingly offering to pay) is a great neg for an upper middle class woman.

    This is NOT my usual game strategy, but every PUA needs to know that it is an option.

    Not knowing it’s an option is a weakness that will help other guys pull women away from you.

    We need to stop seeing anyone in the PUA community:

    1) Putting women on a pedestal by propagating the Madonna/Whore syndrome and agreeing with the feminists about paid sex being shameful.

    2) Implying that it takes no game to convince some other guy’s sister or a bitchy 10, who’s paying none of the regular alphas any attention, to roll in the hay for cash.

    3) Implying, outrageously incorrectly, that women who let themselves be convinced to do something for cash will then disrespect the man instead of, maybe, herself.

    This final concept is outrageously bizarre and anti-male.

    In fact, the idea that women will disrespect a man who pays is probably the biggest example I’ve seen of putting women on a pedestal. It says they aren’t whores at heart and that is damned too politically correct for my blood.

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  149. on February 18, 2011 at 6:53 am Evil Alpha

    Any woman who makes you wait for sex, or by her actions implies she is making you wait for sex; the sex is NEVER worth the wait

    Over generalization. If a 30 year old NY atheist is playing hard to get than absolutely, but a 19 year old suburban catholic girl… not so much.

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  150. on February 18, 2011 at 7:56 am Jerry

    Interesting Facebook post goes viral:

    http://digg.com/news/offbeat/admirer_calls_out_girl_s_facebook_status_im_so_sick_of_boys_being_such_dicks

    Young woman posts “Men are such dicks” and a beta orbiter of hers makes an amazing reply to that.

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  151. on February 18, 2011 at 2:45 pm Anonymous

    theprivateman said: “Women do have problems with false expectations of romance. Emotional pornography has really screwed with their heads.”

    The expectation of solid thrills and no “for worse” has doomed too many marriages… er, “relationships”… today. When the highs wear off, it’s time for the Alpha carosel again… and being pumped an’ dumped, then “Where are all the good men?” Even if you can’t live up to heroic standards, it’ll be “I do, until I don’t feel like it” on her part. Those are “normal” standards nowadays.

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  152. on February 18, 2011 at 3:04 pm Jerry

    Man changes his Facebook status from “in a relationship” to “Single” and he’s the one the cops arrest when his wife goes ballistic and attacks him:

    http://www.zdnet.com/blog/facebook/man-arrested-over-facebook-relationship-status/220?tag=mantle_skin;content

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  153. on February 18, 2011 at 5:51 pm RedEmperor

    Trouble with a girl who you bang on the first night is a simple one: How many times and with who else has she done this? If you’re the first, and she’s had less than three previous partners, maybe it’s ok. Passion is a strange and wonderful thing. but a slut is never a good bet for marriage.

    he also posted a while ago to a heavy
    statistical study of marriages where the woman asked for divorce. The main risk factor was how many previous partners she had. If it was more than three, I think, it was more than fifty-fifty she would file for divorce in ten years

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  154. on February 18, 2011 at 8:51 pm ritmo rioplatense

    Jerry,

    In 99% of paid sex opportunities (the average young woman in a bar but not the professional whores), the man has to:

    a) Open and get accepted into a conversation…
    b) Establish attraction…
    c) Establish preselection and DHVs (applies to all)…
    d) Enormous persuasive power…
    e) Execution (implementation)…

    Dude, if you have all of these things, then why the hell would you even think about pay money? My god man, just a-c should be enough to get most women into bed for free, and, with any normal woman, the money would just be a vibe killer. (“oh, i didn’t know he was a loser who’s used to paying for it… gotta go kthxbai”)
    Jerry, the point of paying for sex is to AVOID points a through e above.

    If you’re still opening up your wallet even despite having all of these things, that it’s you, not her, who has the oh-so-oft-mentioned “whore fantasy”.
    i.e., it just appears that you have some sort of weird fetish where you can’t get it up without opening your wallet and pulling out some cash, and are just projecting that fetish onto these women.

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  155. on February 19, 2011 at 6:14 am Jerry

    @Ritmo

    You’ve made it clear you’re a Marxist feminist troll (female or mangina) on many occasions. Others like Evil Alpha have your number but you persist.

    You won’t condemn feminism and seem to harken to the days when the entire PUA Community was pro-feminist (just 3 years ago with strong traces of pro-feminist thinking still around).

    Here’s your 4 pronged agenda:

    1) You hate the double standard and prove you’re not coming from the social conservative or WN angle by hating on the idea that cads would prefer virgins or that men can even tell if a woman is a slut or not.

    It seems so unfair to you that a man who’s, for instance, slept with 20 women would demand a virgin or low count woman for LTRs. Your ideology is about “equality.”

    2) You have an animosity toward western men who would date women from non-feminist countries. You use all the Marxist feminist jargon about their not being “equals” financially or socially. You just said two days ago that it would be the kiss of death for an American to bring a “mail order bride” to a business conference and expect the men his age to take him seriously (the opposite would be the case if the woman was highly educated, classy and beautiful).

    Your agenda is clearly that you don’t want the artificially high sexual market value of western women to collapse when the stigma finally falls on this subject.

    3) You have an extreme animosity toward men dating much younger women.

    The #1 drive of modern feminists is to hamper, via laws and stigmatization, age difference relationships.

    You’re not a male Ritmo. Or you don’t think like one (definition of mangina).

    4) Your animosity toward paid sexual activity goes over the top and well beyond some guy who’s found that, in his feminist community, the best looking sluts cannot be bought (rich sluts actually only cost more than most men could ever pay).

    You lie when you pretend you oppose paid sex because of old-style PUA theory (especially the theory that existed when PUAs were mostly pro-feminist).

    Because older men like Berlusconi can get much younger women with money, it fits the #1 agenda item of all Marxist feminists like you.

    This is why the subject eats at you.

    I don’t know why you persist in pushing the above 4 agenda items.

    It only helps others make their points better when you lose each and every time you try to argue.

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  156. on February 19, 2011 at 6:31 am Jerry

    @Ritmo

    With my discussion of your overall Marxist feminist agenda in moderation, let’s answer your specific illogical comments:

    Dude, if you have all of these things, then why the hell would you even think about pay money?

    Because she’s the one who might have the whore fantasy. Your feminist brain cannot imagine that the women have this fantasy not the men. A man will just use it.

    Also, if it’s a slut with a low IQ not worth being part of an MLTR, you pay to speed things up and have her leave before your real gf comes over or so you can get some sleep without a slut sleeping beside you. Sheen is correct that you pay them to leave, not for sexual activity. They would otherwise want to cuddle (we’re not talking about professionals here).

    My god man, just a-c should be enough to get most women into bed for free, and, with any normal woman, the money would just be a vibe killer. (“oh, i didn’t know he was a loser who’s used to paying for it… gotta go kthxbai”)

    This propagates the Marxist feminist agenda item of making it look like women will not respect a man for asking and turn away from him. A poor man (or any man) doesn’t have to run money game to get laid, but it is incorrect to imply that women will disrespect and reject a man only for asking.

    This is not only totally wrong in real life (outside of rabid feminist SWPL communities at least), but the feeling of respects towards the man by the woman is the lynch-pin of any claim on whether paid sex is alpha, beta or gamma.

    As a feminist you wouldn’t know what really gets women into bed anyway, plus you don’t know different situations because you aren’t a man who meets different types of women.

    For instance, if there is a huge IQ difference, a woman with a low IQ will not easily let a man with high DHV take her home. That can be rectified in any number of ways, where money is only one strategy.

    Jerry, the point of paying for sex is to AVOID points a through e above.

    Wrong. As I said, 9s and 10s can pick and choose the 1% of guys they want to take money from.

    If you’re still opening up your wallet even despite having all of these things, that it’s you, not her, who has the oh-so-oft-mentioned “whore fantasy”.

    As explained in the post under moderation, your feminist agenda is to deny things like the idea that women have whore fantasies.

    You are not male.

    i.e., it just appears that you have some sort of weird fetish where you can’t get it up without opening your wallet and pulling out some cash, and are just projecting that fetish onto these women.

    No, I have an MLTR core of low counters. You know this.

    Your main reason for posting here is to combat the concept of paid sex on the margins (entertainment) and men dating younger women and western women being ignored for non-feminists and sluts being ignored for virgins.

    All your comments fit into this category. All of them.

    LikeLike


  157. on February 19, 2011 at 9:44 pm Jerry

    The tool who wrote “Lady Chatterley’s Lover” (where a crippled young rich man’s wife fucked the communist-inspired gardener) was spreading a Marxist world view that ended up killing 100 million people.

    The book implied that capitalists were sexually impotent beta males and prole gardeners were alpha males that the wives of rich men wanted to fuck. At least before two years ago, many PUAs were motivated by the fantasies from this unrealistic book.

    In reality, many women seek much richer men out. If you’re not making 10 times more than the gorgeous women around you ($20k per month in New York for instance), then that is probably why they flake and you are simply not experiencing the way women change their behavior toward men when they sense a real monetary power difference.

    If you’re making $6k per month and a young woman is making $2k per month at McDonalds, she won’t respect you in terms of having much financial power over her.

    This is definitely why a lot of this blog’s readers are ignorant about how women really behave when there is a serious financial power difference.

    Men tend to remain the dark about women’s whore fantasies even more in socialist countries when the guy making $6k per month has to pay 40% of that in taxes that go to female college students who don’t need to even give him a hand job for his financial contribution to her welfare.

    It is for this reason (the government throwing money at women) that so many PUA types in the west are completely ignorant about women’s whore fantasies.

    Most men pay for sex in one form or another. The Chateau understands this.

    But, because of socialism and Marxist feminism in the Anglosphere , there are still three things I’ve seen Anglo Saxon males fail to understand about women in regard to money.

    1) PUAs who don’t know better will put women on pedestals by pretending that the only paid sex available is via professional whores and professional strippers.

    I believe that even the Chateau thinks, deep down, that “Gold Diggers” are too saintly to lie down for direct cash payments.

    He’s implied they will lie down for a man if they think he has a beautiful beach home (offering sex on the lay away plan).

    But they will also mostly lie down for a month’s rent if they consider you to be 10 times richer than their father and you persuade them properly.

    Time and time again I see guys, including the host, fail to understand that we’re not talking about apples and oranges (whores vs Madonnas) here. We are talking about your wives and girlfriends when rich men approach them, we are talking about your sisters, your mother when she was in college and wanted a better grade and the girls you want at the bar being available at least to richer men for cash.

    In a recent post the Chateau continued the idea that “normal girls can’t be bought” when he wrote that “throwing twenties at a stripper at a friend’s party is not necessarily beta if you have a hot girlfriend”.

    Actually, that is beta in all cases (because she’s a pro and didn’t need any persuading and didn’t get the guy off).

    What’s definitely not beta is, while the stupid professional stripper is going at it in the living room, persuading your friend’s 18 year old sister, who’s heading for Stanford, to do a private strip with lap dance for you in her bedroom for a twenty, and agreeing not to tell your girlfriend and your friend who are in the next room.

    That’s the scenario the Chateau should have used instead of the lame “if you throw twenties at a stripper at a friend’s party that’s not necessarily beta.”

    Now an Asperger’s type would say “No, it’s alpha to get your friend’s virgin sister to do that for free.” Yes, that would be slightly MORE alpha. But you’d be a fool to think that the money made much of a difference in what was going on. It was only a twenty. The twenty doesn’t reduce the feat from Alpha to Beta. We’re talking about an upper middle class 18 year old going to Stanford.

    Ritmo made the illogical remark that, if I had the power to persuade the sister to take her clothes off, I’d have the power to get her to do that for free. Totally illogical statement.

    Maybe yes. Maybe no. If I tried to get her to do it for free and that didn’t work, and I later tried to get her to do it to satisfy her whore fantasy and that worked, then there is no logic in saying that a persuasive guy can always get it for free.

    Also, why would it matter if I paid or not as long as I got the same woman to do what I wanted and wouldn’t miss the $20? Respect of the woman? Why would that matter if I only wanted that one encounter and who but the Marxist feminists is so sure that the friend’s sister would disrespect me more because I parted with $20 over her? It’s not as if I bought her a drink and didn’t get anything for it.

    She might end up being the one to disrespect herself, not the other way around.

    Marxist feminists want the guys here to think of paid sex in terms of professionals who are separate from normal women who would not want to be bothered by men “victimizing them” by asking them to do what pros do.

    2) PUAs will mistakenly assume that paid sexual activity is all about avoiding game and the need to persuade women.

    Wrong. This is a Marxist inspired lie which isn’t even logical. As I just described in the scenario of the friend’s sister, significant persuasion is needed to get women to do things for money unless the women are professionals.

    Paid sexual activity is about having fun, not about avoiding game.

    If you want to have fun with a particular non-pro woman and you’ve tried other avenues and failed, then offering her cash will definitely not be easy to do at all. If she was raised with too much feminism or religion, offering money may not work. But it’s better than taking a number and getting flaked on.

    And remember, just because you’ve established attraction, DHVs and pre-selection, doesn’t mean she’s going to have sex with you for free. With many gold digger types, establishing attraction only qualifies you to be allowed to make an indecent proposal that gets accepted.

    3) Too many PUAs are brainwashed by feminists to think that a non-feminist woman would be turned off by an indecent proposal and reject him or think of him as being more beta for having asked.

    Feminists wish this were the case, but PUAs don’t need to echo the wishful thinking of feminists.

    Many women would not hold it against a guy for making an indecent proposal, meaning it would not make a difference in whether she thought he was Alpha, Beta or Gamma (other factors would determine that).

    How he asked might make a big difference, however.

    A woman might not respect a man for asking her to be mercantile if she feels his income isn’t much more than her’s and he’d be hurting if he, for instance, paid her rent for a month. I noted above, if she makes $2k per month and you make only $6k, the three-fold difference isn’t enough for her to feel like being a whore with you.

    But the lack of respect in that case would not be because you asked her to be mercantile but because she doesn’t really see you as being financially qualified to make serious proposals. It can be the kiss of death to be just the financial equal of a gold digger.

    In the end, Alpha, Beta and Gamma are determined by whether you get what you want as well as what the women think of you.

    What your “peers” on a blog would think plays no factor in what’s Alpha, Beta or Gamma.

    LikeLike


  158. on February 19, 2011 at 10:56 pm Jerry

    Men can’t sit on the fence and let new laws get passed that criminalize men for paying for sexual activity.

    That is why it is critical that the PUA community get off its ass about the subject.

    Since there’s no edit for cutting down the text above, I’ll summarize:

    My god man, just a-c should be enough to get most women into bed for free,

    Not only is it a woeful misunderstanding of game to imply that one given man can succeed every time with tight regular game, this statement by Ritmo is supposed to pass as an argument that a normal woman doesn’t need to be persuaded with DHVs and preselection in order to agree to strip for cash.

    As one can see, it’s a non sequitur argument.

    Ritmo, who is probably only pretending to be a male PUA instead of a feminist here with an agenda, is making the outrageous assumption that “most women” will go to bed with a man immediately who conducts good DHV and pre-selection. In reality, any given alpha will only succeed, for free, some of the time no matter how good his game is.

    Roosh, on the other hand, says that the majority of women who give their number to him, will flake unless he manages to fuck close them before the first date.

    So Roosh is saying that many American feminist women are so fucked up that most of the effort make in building DHVs and pre-selection ends up being wasted, unless something is done to get a first night fuck close.

    None of this is an argument against considering the option of making an indecent proposal before the first date if it doesn’t look like first night sexual activity is going to happen naturally and it looks like future flaking is a strong possibility (or if flaking has already started).

    and, with any normal woman, the money would just be a vibe killer. (“oh, i didn’t know he was a loser who’s used to paying for it… gotta go kthxbai”)

    This is feminist propaganda. Many men know first hand that money is not a vibe killer unless its offered for nothing in return.

    Note the attempt to pretend that “normal women” are different from professionals.

    Almost every young woman whom I’ve asked to strip for money has said yes. It must be the way I do it (I use pre-selection).

    So much for the theory that they tend to think “oh, I didn’t know he was a loser who’s used to paying for it”. Those are the words of someone who doesn’t know what they are talking about.

    This theory serves the interests of feminists who don’t want older men having fun with younger women.

    Feminists love to throw in the word “loser” when they want to use shaming tactics to stop something that threatens them.

    It also shows that Ritmo doesn’t think much of Berlusconi, who’s done very well for a 74 year old man (except for the feminists now having declared war on him and every other man).

    And it’s the interference in Berlusconi’s life and the Increasing Criminalization of Johns that makes this topic a men’s rights issue.

    Men can’t sit on the fence in terms of new laws that criminalize men for paying for sexual activity.

    LikeLike


  159. on February 19, 2011 at 11:10 pm ritmo rioplatense

    Oh, Jerry, Jerry. Where do I begin with you.

    Men can’t sit on the fence and let new laws get passed that criminalize men for paying for sexual activity.

    That is why it is critical that the PUA community get off its ass about the subject.

    Jerry, politics is a compromise. The MRA’s (I’ll assume that’s who you meant, since PUA’s as a whole are rather apolitical) are already coming from a position that provokes viscerally negative reactions in many people; the last thing they can afford is to provoke more viscerally negative reactions before they even get off the ground.

    Not only is it a woeful misunderstanding of game to imply that one given man can succeed every time with tight regular game

    Get a dictionary and look up “most”. Thx.

    Roosh, on the other hand, says that the majority of women who give their number to him, will flake unless he manages to fuck close them before the first date.

    If you pursue a sexually intense approach, that’s often what happens. Especilaly if the girl was drinking, and, once sober, decides that the interaction went too fast. Don’t you know anything about women?

    So Roosh is saying that many American feminist women are so fucked up that most of the effort make in building DHVs and pre-selection ends up being wasted, unless something is done to get a first night fuck close.

    You mean the conversion rate isn’t 100%? oh no! get the violins!

    ever worked in sales, jerry?
    if the customer goes out the door, you’ve usually lost the sale. oh well, there’ll be other customers. attitude of abundance.

    really dude? you worry about “wasted effort”?
    i have a friend who has started 6 businesses. 5 of them failed, 1 didn’t. guess what? he’s rich.

    LikeLike


  160. on February 19, 2011 at 11:16 pm ritmo rioplatense

    Note the attempt to pretend that “normal women” are different from professionals.

    dude, you’re the one who’s always qualifying himself with the “i only pay nonpro’s” shit. now you’re turning around and saying that “nonpro” isn’t a real concept.

    pick a side. stay on it.

    Almost every young woman whom I’ve asked to strip for money has said yes. It must be the way I do it (I use pre-selection).

    Or it has to do with your offering $100, in a country where $100 is worth several times what it’s worth in the states.

    It also shows that Ritmo doesn’t think much of Berlusconi, who’s done very well for a 74 year old man (except for the feminists now having declared war on him and every other man).

    Dude, Berlusconi paid that chick ten thousand dollars. other chicks he’s rewarded with jobs, etc.
    there’s nothing terribly impressive about that; given berlusconi’s wealth and status, every single man on this board could pull the same stunts.

    so, yeah, i don’t think much of berlusconi. i don’t mind him — he’s an amusing sideshow who’s so unpopular among his own people that there was rioting in the streets when he (narrowly) passed a no-confidence vote — but, if it’s worth $10,000 to him to get his dick wet, then more power to him.

    And it’s the interference in Berlusconi’s life and the Increasing Criminalization of Johns that makes this topic a men’s rights issue.

    i don’t really have a horse in this race either way. i really don’t.

    the arguments made by the folks on either side of this particular issue are equally fatuous.

    in general, i’m a laissez-faire type of guy, so my default position is that it should be legalized, unless someone can demonstrate significant societal peril that would result therefrom.

    LikeLike


  161. on February 19, 2011 at 11:18 pm n/a

    Jerry,

    You’re almost right about the following:

    “Ritmo, who is probably only pretending to be a male PUA instead of a feminist here with an agenda..”

    This thing is either a lousy vagina or a dreadful mangina, take your pick. Either way it’s a “feminist” POS troll.

    It doesn’t deserve your time.

    LikeLike


  162. on February 19, 2011 at 11:27 pm Jerry

    @Ritmo

    politics is a compromise. The MRA’s (I’ll assume that’s who you meant, since PUA’s as a whole are rather apolitical) are already coming from a position that provokes viscerally negative reactions in many people; the last thing they can afford is to provoke more viscerally negative reactions before they even get off the ground.

    This is outrageous. You are saying that you, Ritmo, support the criminalization of men who pay for sexual activity.

    It’s noted that you still haven’t denied you support feminism or don’t think its a problem.

    MRAs do the opposite of promote a visceral negative reaction in normal people as opposed to fems and manginas.

    A majority of men oppose legislation criminalizing men for paying for sex.

    This blog is bringing PUAs and MRAs together. Yes, there are very few men willing to fight for ANY of their rights.

    Since the #1 drive of feminism is stopping older men from having fun with younger women, fighting feminism can’t even find a footing without this being recognized widely.

    The new war on Berlusconi makes it so the feminists are pushing the issue of the criminalization of men vis a vis paid sex and forcing men to take notice (causing conservatives who like Berlusconi to see how its the Marxist feminists who are behind the noise).

    Nobody ever said that this issue isn’t a bitch to defend because the White Knighter social conservatives will be just as much against men having options as the Marxist left.

    But only Sweden and a few American states have criminalized men for soliciting sex. The trend in worldwide criminalization can be stopped (if CNN and Fox News lose more of their power to the Internet).

    Compromise??

    Fuck you.

    In any case, your agenda won’t win on this blog which gets read by 3000 people per day.

    I do realize that your reason for coming to this blog is to shame the concept of paid sex.

    You aren’t here because you’re a man looking to constantly get beautiful women to have sex with.

    LikeLike


  163. on February 19, 2011 at 11:35 pm ritmo rioplatense

    This is outrageous. You are saying that you, Ritmo, support the criminalization of men who pay for sexual activity.

    read my whole post champ, i said i don’t much care either way, and my libertarian leanings incline me toward legalization

    It’s noted that you still haven’t denied you support feminism or don’t think its a problem.

    i see lots of problems that it has caused, yeah. but I’ve also gotten laid a lot as an indirect result of it. god bless america!

    I do realize that your reason for coming to this blog is to shame the concept of paid sex

    che, i do realize that reading comprehension isn’t your strong suit

    You aren’t here because you’re a man looking to constantly get beautiful women to have sex with.

    it ain’t beautiful if it ain’t free. god bless america!

    No tengo dinero
    Ni nada que dar
    lo único que tengo es amor para amar

    — juan gabriel

    LikeLike


  164. on February 19, 2011 at 11:48 pm Jerry

    @Ritmo

    now you’re turning around and saying that “nonpro” isn’t a real concept.

    Non-pros will strip for cash just like pros, but the difference is one has to persuade them.

    You’ve been trying to pretend, with no first hand experience, that you know somehow that non-pros won’t respect a guy who’s good at convincing other non-pros and their friends to strip.

    And you make it your agenda to push hard on this.

    Even when I don’t mention this subject, you push it.

    Don’t give me any crap that you aren’t here constantly condemning paid sexual activity on this blog for a reason.

    And jeez, only a fag would condemn watching a woman strip for a twenty.

    Or it has to do with your offering $100, in a country where $100 is worth several times what it’s worth in the states.

    So what? In the USA or Australia, it would probably take $300 to get a college girl and her friends to strip.

    That’s called inflation.

    You’ve given no proof that Australian girls, of the kind who are sluts and who aren’t worth establishing long term relationships with, would be turned off by a properly made indecent proposal.

    so, yeah, i don’t think much of berlusconi

    Didn’t think you did. Lots of people here think he’s doing what a 74 year old ought to be doing, except a normal 74 year old could be spending less and doing as well. Sure, $10k was too much to pay for one woman. No argument there.

    i don’t really have a horse in this race either way. i really don’t.

    You really do.

    You wouldn’t be pushing hard on this issue on every thread, even when I don’t mention it, if it wasn’t part of your agenda.

    If you really don’t have a “horse in this race” (it is very clear that you are NOT bedding women 18-22 with any kind of game) you may want to discuss topics that you know something about and leave this to those who do have a horse in the race.

    It’s good to see you directly say you are against the criminalization of men for paid activity.

    LikeLike


  165. on February 19, 2011 at 11:54 pm ritmo rioplatense

    it is very clear that you are NOT bedding women 18-22 with any kind of game

    is it now.

    can you tell that with the same sense of smell that you use to sniff out virginity?
    lolz

    catch you on the flipside, bro

    LikeLike


  166. on February 20, 2011 at 12:00 am Jerry

    @Ritmo

    If you really are a libertarian, you fooled more than one person here in regard to your perceived feminist leanings. Libertarians aren’t into slamming others for something they do now and then in their private life, and certainly wouldn’t condemn watching a woman strip for a twenty.

    I liked your answers today.

    Let’s just stay logical and in future discussion.

    That means, no, a man who asks and succeeds to get a college student to strip now and then is

    a) not making it his main strategy
    b) not exploiting the third world
    c) not likely to earn her disrespect if he does it right
    d) which is important because alpha, beta and gamma is determined by how the woman feels, not a gadly on a blog

    LikeLike


  167. on February 20, 2011 at 4:26 am DirkJohanson

    It cannot possibly be a coincidence that Abu Dhabi – one of the world’s leading centers of legal prostitution – is the one place in the entire Middle East where, not only has there not been a single demonstration, but there hasn’t even been voiced the slightest concern by anybody that a revolution could occur.

    Just goes to show what giving guys the “right to choose” willing sex partners through legalization of prostitution can do for domestic tranquility and world peace. Its clearly the single most important issue in the world, more so than ending hunger or eliminating nuclear weapons – for a guy who is getting laid doesn’t notice he is hungry, and a guy who is sexually satiated men has no need to fight.

    Then again, there is the case of Genghis Khan.

    Oh, well. It seemed like a good theory at first.

    LikeLike



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