When are women most like beta males? When they’re in love.
No, I’m not talking about the “he’s got acceptable college credentials and a good job and car” kind of ledger book love. I’m talking about the “he smells so great and I love the way he buttons his shirt from the bottom up and I can’t wait to jump into his arms at the end of the day” kind of love. The two kinds of love are very different, and often mutually exclusive.
When a woman falls into the second kind of love she begins to behave around her man much like a beta male does around women he is attracted to. The change is such a radical metamorphosis that it leads one to believe that love rewires a woman’s brain in a direction that makes her singularly vulnerable to the vicissitudes of romance. It’s no wonder then that women are very careful about doling out the innermost sanctum of their hearts to just any man. Even sluts, who let it be known aren’t exactly inclined to impart their pussies with much significance, are surprisingly circumspect about how quickly and easily they allow themselves to fall in love.
Here is a partial list of the similarities between the woman in love and the beta male:
Woman In Love (WIL) – goes out of her way to please her lover
Beta Male (BM) – goes out of his way to please his LJBF
WIL – small deviations from the relationship norm send her into a tizzy of self-doubt
BM – every little thing she says sends him into a tizzy of overanalysis
WIL – tears flow effortlessly from the slightest infraction
BM – self-hate flows effortlessly from the slightest infraction
WIL – quick to blame herself for relationship problems
BM – quick to blame women for dating problems
WIL – eager for constant stream of validation from her lover
BM – eager for constant stream of indicators of interest from women
WIL – asks “do you love me as much as I love you?”
BM – asks “do you like me?” (Or behaves in a way that subcommunicates asking this kind of question.)
WIL – pushes for validation by stating “sometimes I feel like you’re not all there with me.”
BM – pushes for validation by asking “are we dating?”
WIL – seeks to calm her self-doubt with continual positive appraisals of the relationship status
BM – seeks to calm his self-doubt with continual positive signs of emotional intimacy
WIL – calls at awkward times because she has sixth sense for when her man might be flirting with another woman
BM – calls at awkward times because he has no sense for when a woman doesn’t like him
WIL – gets really nervous if her lover calls her from a bar
BM – gets really nervous if his object of affection doesn’t return his calls
WIL – “Why is he working late? I’ll call him.”
BM – “Why hasn’t she replied to my text yet? I’ll send another.”
WIL – suffers from oneitis
BM – suffers from oneitis
WIL – quick to ignore her lover’s faults
BM – quick to ignore his date’s faults
WIL – feels like she’s walking on eggshells
BM – ditto
WIL – works harder and harder to please her lover the more the relationship fades
BM – works harder and harder to suck up to a date the more indifference she shows
WIL – will forgive him anything, even, sometimes, cheating
BM – will forgive her anything, even, sometimes, sexless manipulation
WIL – can’t wait to introduce him to everyone she knows
BM – can’t wait to be seen around town with her
WIL – super sensitive to the mildest criticism
BM – doubleplusditto
WIL – fawning
BM – cloying
WIL – sexually submissive
BM – emotionally submissive
WIL – masturbates quite frequently when lover is away
BM – masturbates quite frequently
WIL – needs reassurance that he loves her and will make a future with her
BM – needs reassurance that she sees him “in that way”
WIL – can cuddle for hours with her lover
BM – can cuddle for hours given half the chance
WIL – her lover is a jerk, but she thinks he’s a paragon of masculine virtue
BM – his date is a cocktease, but he thinks she’s a paragon of feminine virtue
WIL – frets over the minutest details of every word he says, every text or voicemail he sends, and every wink he throws
BM – was born fretting
WIL – will ignore or rationalize red flags
BM – will completely miss red flags
WIL – will audibly sigh with pleasure when thinking about her lover
BM – will audibly moan with discomfort when thinking about his performance on the last date
WIL – will cherish every hackneyed romantic word her lover whispers in her ear
BM – will cherish a date-ending peck on the cheek
WIL – will constantly qualify herself to her lover
BM – will constantly qualify himself to his date
WIL – will stop shit testing, or, even better, will begin to shit test *herself*
BM – will fail every shit test
WIL – will worry about every blemish, every single pound of weight gain, and every bad haircut because it might turn off her lover
BM – will worry about every word out of his mouth because it might turn off his date
WIL – will suffer greatly if her lover leaves her
BM – will suffer greatly if his date LJBFs him
What this list juxtaposes is the illuminative comparison between women in love and beta males. It is not a list of beta female traits. That is a different thing entirely. Beta females are defined mostly by their plain looks and their inability to convince high value men to commit to them.
What is interesting here is that the woman in love who behaves like a beta male might still be an alpha female on the dating market. This would be true if, for instance, she was a hot broad. Women who lapse into total servility and betatude with their lovers don’t usually carry that over into their dealings with other men. The woman in love might be a beta to her lover, but she’s still a stone cold bitch to you.
Correction: Women in love tend to be nicer in general to all men, because their need for love has been met. Her prime directive fulfilled, she can now ease up on the bitch shields and shit tests with men she has no intention of dating.
A woman in love, in short, suffers from a form of Stockholm Syndrome. She is held captive by her lover, and wouldn’t have it any other way.

Does that make me a lesbian?
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In other words, “beta” men are men in love, and you just think you’re above that, cause you’ve successfully stomped your former self out. Betas turned “alphas” are betas in denial.
[Editor: No. Do you have a reading disability?]
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a woman in love is very generous indeed and demonstrates the folly of buying her love.
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“The two kinds of love are very different, and often mutually exclusive.”
So true.
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You described the feelings of a woman in love to a tee.
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You see, a pimp’s love is very different from that of a square.
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I once had a WIL. I married her. Then, I became a beta.
Then she became a WooL(Woman out of Love). It’s my parents’ fault.
My dad was not around and all I thought I was supposed to do my mom taught me. She screwed me badly with wrong information.
It ended the night my ex saw the only way out of beta prison was to try taking my life.
Now, after two years of training from CH, the beta side is dead. Long live the Alpha!
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I agree these are the key characteristics of a woman in love (in the second sense).
Which is why you should do your best to prevent women from falling in love with you. Would you want to be with the WILF described above? (Well, except for the sexually submissive part?) What a drag….
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Holly shit that’s a depressing post. I think i’m a fucking beta.
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“No. Do you have a reading disability.”
I remember reading some self-annointed “PUA’s” blog a little while ago describing his life before “game”. He was a “natural” he said. As long as he wasn’t too enamored with the girls he was chasing he had no problem being an aloof asshole and reeling them in. But for some reason when he was going for the 8s and 9s who he really liked and wanted to be with he would mysteriously choke up and flounder. Thankfully he found “game” and cured his “oneitis”.
[Editor: That wasn’t this blog.]
Every man has the same story of “game”. Boy grows up looking for love, and acts earnestly in pursuit of it. He gets dismayed at seeing the objects of his affection run for the dim-witted douchebags (“naturals”) instead. Learns game and emulates those douchebags while his accumulation of wisdom crystalizes.
[Fixed that for ya.]
Subsequently starts to see women as little more than meat pockets.
[Wrong blog.]
Considers himself trancendant “alpha”, man among boys. Read Roosh’s story for an example, I’m sure yours is not much different.
[I won’t speak for Roosh, but that is not my story, nor the story of the other writers here. But if you need to tell yourself that to sleep at night, go right ahead.]
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sometimes sexless manipulation? That´s the whole point of LJBFing an orbiter, from the female point of view- to cocktease him to do/buy things for her while she gives nothing in return. So much more convenient than telling him to get lost.
this-
is an interesting way to look at it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome
The common denominators may be fear and vulnerability, in a state of submission. Emotional happiness vs life and limb.
I guess Patty Hearst eventually got married- to her former bodyguard. Not too bright for someone who was kidnapped.
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Thank you for this. I have oscillated between Alpha and Beta all my life: for example, I have the notch count at the high end of Greater Beta, but thanks to a period of religious fervor, I actually turned down offers of sex that would have catapulted me into Lesser Alpha status (whatta Beta move); I only have one true affair under my belt (a married woman, not a woman with a boyfriend). Currently, I share the same story as “anonymouses anonymous,” except the divorce isn’t final and I’m working to get my chops back, and better them. I was laughing my way through this post, when suddenly, “Holy shit, I just did that.” Thank you for pointing out the truths we don’t see in ourselves.
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@modernfag
Game makes guys less bitter… getting laid more does that ya know.
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modernguy,
Yes, betas do seem to have a knack for falling madly in love with women that aren’t interested in them.
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Chateau—
I don’t know. It hasn’t been my experience that serious sluts fall nearly as deeply in love as this extensive list of WIL characteristics, actions and reactions illustrates. They may well have in the beginning on their road to slutdom, but not once they’re fully there.
Maybe a slutty 6 who’s never been in any kind of relationship with higher than a lesser alpha will/can become a WIL with a full alpha (9), but what alpha wants to have a love relationship with a girl 3 SMV levels below him? Which is why I’m speculating here.
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Great post!
You and Vox Day have to get together and make a quiz for us women to take! Alpha chick, beta chick. Queen bee, worker bee!!
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I think Modern guy is regular at Vox Day. I am familiar with his posts.
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Girls are sluts not because they have indiscriminate sex, they just use sex as a weapon to nail down an alpha, but they keep casting bait. That is, they don’t lose sight of the prize in sleeping around, they don’t wake up next to a nerd.
It’d be helpful to visualize. So, picture a Jersey Shore girl like Snooki or Deena. They’d lock it up if they got a guy but since no guy who they deem acceptable will go past 1 night with them. Or Angelina, she banged the whole male cast but refused to let out the kitty for that nice guy.
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“BM” is an appropriate abbreviation, isn’t it?
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Great post. Would be good to get the alpha equivalents alongside each point too.
Shame I seem to be doing a shitload of the BM points right now. A girl that is basically a 10, beautiful (tall, ex-model, never wears makeup, no need), high IQ, really interesting and funny, moved into my shared house a few months back.
Her bf has uber game – he barely responds to her questions, never buys her anything or takes her out, and says very little. I have never seen such a clear example of game / a natural at work.
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Lara,
First, caress my rox..
Second, Detox my Buttox.
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Is there the same reaction on a man’s side as a woman generally has to ‘beta’ behaviour though? Guys don’t react the same way to that (and this is somewhat confirmed with their interaction with dogs: loyalty, energy and clinginess directed at a guy gets a return back.)
[Editor: Glad you asked. (Figured someone would ask that.) Alpha males do soften a bit when they fall in love, but for the most part alphas tend not to betamorphose as completely as women do when they fall in love. Women seem eager to surrender — in fact they *yearn* to surrender — their bitchiness and caprice to a man they love.]
However, it does seem that above a certain level, being too permissive and pliant gives him licence to humiliating levels of infidelity. There’s a limit, and there should be. It’s certainly far from a common problem in the current scene though.
There’s projection going on with both sexes. Women are very, very aware of how they react to beta behaviour and project that on to their own behaviour with men. This is both because there’s a lot of beta going on in society and because of various messages that make the word ‘submissive’ outside the bedroom shocking and unthinkable. She’ll fight to suppress her affection, not appear too needy and so on in the way she would expect a man to.
This doesn’t mean some girls can’t help lapsing into it, despite whatever messages are sent out. Love (*coughbiomechanics*) conquers all.
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Great examples of how the feminization of American culture has fostered the production of so many beta males. Men are encouraged to behave like females from the cradle onward with the result that young men turn out like weak females even when not in a relationship.
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It’s embarassing how on point you are with how WIL act.
Damn it.
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Bhetti,
As long as you don’t scare them off with fatal attraction type behavior and you aren’t too clingy and needy, men seem to like the attention. It is actually kind of a nice quality they have.
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I once had a WIL for two and a half years… all of these are true and eerily describe her very behavior in the relationship’s duration.
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Bhetti,
The threshold for what constitutes a “pushover” is different in men than women. A woman can be more lovey dovey than a man can be beta and she will not be penalized for it, whereas he will.
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All true.
All right now.
She wouldn’t have it any other way.
I will make this last forever.
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Chateau:
Although it’s obvious, I’ll add this because you didn’t mention it: Men actually like the WIL traits you listed, they’re endearing, as long as they don’t become obsessive and stalkerish. That’s why we don’t call them beta as when a man does them.
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“[Editor: Glad you asked. (Figured someone would ask that.) Alpha males do soften a bit when they fall in love, but for the most part alphas tend not to betamorphose as completely as women do when they fall in love. Women seem eager to surrender — in fact they *yearn* to surrender — their bitchiness and caprice to a man they love.]”
This seems pretty wishy washy. How would you characterize the “love” of an “alpha” male?
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C’mon, none of this is “love” in any sense. There’s only one kind of love, real love. That’s only possible when you really love yourself first, then you’re able to truly give. All this other stuff is ego fixation, as both men and women play out their behavioral programming.
Sex is really not that big a deal. It’s a carnival ride. But go ahead, climb that mountain to nowhere. Knock yourselves out.
Love, now that’s spiritual truth. You can’t pimp it and you can’t exploit it. One day it’ll get you by the short hairs and not let go.
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Yes I am a troll.
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Actually, the only WIL behaviour that didn’t quite seem right was that “shit” testing will stop.
I don’t think it does — in fact think some form of monitoring a man via little tests is so intrinsic that its impossible — but it’s not as explicit and rejecting in its nature (i.e. subtle, unconscious), more of an invitation to show your stuff than a challenge and you’d have to fail much more of them than when in the courtship stage that precedes her falling in love with you. Does that ring true?
*(I’m still not comfortable saying “shit” without “” in public.)
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I sure hope the next post is how to get women to fall obnoxiously in love with you.
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“Women in love tend to be nicer in general to all men, because their need for love has been met. Her prime directive fulfilled, she can now ease up on the bitch shields and shit tests with men she has no intention of dating.”
For the most part, my closest female friends have been married or in committed relationships. All the women I’ve had conflicts with (mostly at work) have been single and pretty much unfuckable. My old lady says the same about her colleagues at work: the single 30-something women tend to be mean and catty, while the taken ones are more at ease with other women.
Women who aren’t getting boned properly by a strong man can get really crazy. Be careful around them; some of them want to hurt you and drag you down. I learned this the hard way.
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bhetti’s admission that shit tests never stop even when a woman is in love was nice to hear from a woman. it’s also nice to hear because it’s true. the only difference is that the leeway in passing the shit tests becomes so ridiculous that only an autistic omega couldn’t pass them.
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Most American women are incapable of love after they reach the age of about 22.
Inflated sense of market value + the devaluation of relationship culture + a cynical attitude toward men = bitches that are worthless or anything but casual sex.
It feels great to be loved. Unfortunately our culture has all but stripped women of the capability of connecting with the opposite sex.
On a side note-
Men are the TRUE romantic suckers. Don’t believe the pretty lie that says that women are the sentimental sex.
Your value to them is determined by the tingles produced by your presence (or lack thereof).
All else is superfluous.
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Has anyone here had a real (former) slut act fully like a WIL with them?
Besides Xsplat that is. Heh.
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@Good Luck Chuck
“Most American women are incapable of love after they reach the age of about 22.”
Stupid comment.
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Lara said: “@Good Luck Chuck
‘Most American women are incapable of love after they reach the age of about 22.’
Stupid comment.”
But true. Hook-up culture having hurt ’em bad or turned ’em in hypergamous tramps (if they aren’t a single mother with one or more kids by then).
Looking for that DHV… in all its forms:
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Love is the same in men and women but on the whole, kindled by different things. Men who have adopted “game” have to reconcile the fact that a simple, earnest expression of their love is a turn off to the object of their love.
[Editor: Are you a sockpuppet? You write like a composite of every troll who’s strolled through here.
Men who run game don’t have to reconcile anything of the sort. A man who has game can express his love more freely than a man with no game, because he is confident his expressions will be well-received.]
The amusing thing to see though, is that mostly this problem remains unresolved.
[Speak for yourself.]
Players who take the route of using game to seduce many women probably never feel that intense feeling again, and live a shallow life.
[You know what really triggers that intense feeling of love? When the chick is hot and feminine. Numbers of past conquests have little to do with it.]
The ones who reject game hold on to love but throw away the possibility of kindling it in another.
[False premise.]
So you have “players” and you have “men going their own way”.
[Game does not necessarily require adopting the player lifestyle. But you knew that, trollboy.]
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modernguy: “This seems pretty wishy washy. How would you characterize the ‘love’ of an ‘alpha’ male?”
A nice hot creampie… the bigger, the better, baby! (If she’s married and cums when you do it in her, it’s probably love for her too.)
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I thought what anonymouses anonymous said was interesting about being ‘taught the wrong thing’ by his mom, as PUAs tend to say this a lot too.
But why would mothers do this? It’s like a willing form of disgenics. They go to all the trouble by reproducing with someone I *assume* they sense as genetically fit, but then seem to try to sabotage the whole process in their own children.
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@julian
“only an autistic omega couldn’t pass them”
it’s not that simple… Men who get screwed the most are rather on a greater beta part of the scale. Like that instapundit dude from previous post. Or yours truly.
The ones who still get laid somewhat going on looks, social skills, rudimentary c/f game, winging with friends with game, even while behaving as a nice guy and thus taking shit tests at face value.
Basically, your ego is in good shape, you dismiss mainstream “robe and wizard hat” PUA game, etc… yet you don’t really understand women. And when you get into an LTR or worse, you get betaized and screwed. And as you still are a nice guy, you still have and embrace feeeeelings, so you get hurt like a mofo. Conversely, it hurts more than autistic omega, who’s quite happy fapping and playing WoW or whatever kids play these days.
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as far as women in love, yes, it’s true, not exactly cutting edge knowledge… I don’t think it has to be love though. Women who are attracted turn into chumps… And yes it doesn’t repulse me, but on an intellectual level it does kinda piss you off when you learn game. Tempts to flake on them in and stuff, to make up for time they screwed you over for chumpiness.
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Uh-oh, the Rationalization Hamster rides again…
Woman decides she doesn’t want to be a wife and mother when her kids are 3 and 5, so she dumps her husband of 20 years, leaves him with the kids and goes back to writing a politically-correct book about Hiroshima she enjoys better.
I sh*t you not… it’s in Shine today..
“The opposite of a ‘Tiger Mother’: leaving your children behind,” by Lylah M. Alphonse, Shine, 4 Mar 11
http://shine.yahoo.com/channel/parenting/the-opposite-of-a-tiger-mother-leaving-your-children-behind-2460982/
Hubby, kids… disposable, for her writing career.
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Julian–
Yeah I know that first hand. But they’re kinda softball shiite tests. As she says they’re more of the character of goading me a little to show my alpha stuff at that moment for a thrill, which she is relishing my doing, than filtering once again.
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Lara, ModernTroll—
There’s a grain of truth in what you’re saying but only a grain. I think most people male and female never feel as intense love again as they did for their first intense one.
[Editor: That’s true for men who use game and men who don’t. moderntroll has no point to make following that logic.]
Which doesn’t mean their first relationship or their first sex usually. But the first time it all came together mutually. They may and often do feel pretty intense adoration love the second time, but rarely greater unless there was really something seriously wrong during the good parts of the first intense love. And it goes on to diminish after that. This matters a whole lot more in women than men though, because we privilege women’s force of nature feelings about love and no longer in love so much in this society, but not men’s.
People refuse to really admit this though, by and large. In part this is because people esp. in western societies obsess over romantic love and since feminism have pushed later and later age of marriage for most elite career women. The implications are that under the current feminist pushed extensive premarital sex and relationships, before long delayed marriage, most women won’t be intensely in adoration love with the man they marry. This greatly contributes to the 50% rate of divorce, filed for 2.5x as often by women, and many divorce lawyers say really instigated closer to 90% of the time by women.
[No argument there. However, love can be (re)sparked by:
1. avoiding marriage
2. dating better looking girls
3. dating younger girls
It also helps to stay young forever, but the aging process affects everyone’s ability to feel passionate intense love, not just players.]
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Doug,
Yes. Young love is the most intense.
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Sometimes, haters of ‘artificiality’ are to game as people who don’t want ‘chemicals’ in anything are to food.
It’s just the funniest thing to someone who knows anything about chemistry.
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“Basically, your ego is in good shape, you dismiss mainstream “robe and wizard hat” PUA game, etc… yet you don’t really understand women. And when you get into an LTR or worse, you get betaized and screwed. And as you still are a nice guy, you still have and embrace feeeeelings, so you get hurt like a mofo. Conversely, it hurts more than autistic omega, who’s quite happy fapping and playing WoW or whatever kids play these days.”
@ last tango. i think many can identify with this pre learning game. however, why would you allow yourself to get beta-ized in the way you describe post ?
sure, i can imagine some softening of the edges here and there in a very LTR ( 2 +years) but even then your basic worldview must had shifted to not ever take shit tests at face value. once a man understands the bio-software that women come pre-loaded with, it’s kind of hard to go back. i’m not referring to showing affection or feelings either, that’s part of being human. im referring to becoming some soft cloying puppy that allows a woman to control the direction of the relationship or is taken in by her mercurial moods or the absolute gina-shutter; displays fear of losing her.
i had a 1 yr relationship post-and i was never in a position where i questioned what i needed to do and once the relationship ended i walked away with my dignity intact. in fact, she and i are still friends. it was to put it plainly the best break up i have ever experienced. you want to know why ?
it wasn’t because i didn’t show affection or tenderness; nothing of the sort. it was because i never the felt fear of losing her and this trickled into every facet of our interactions. what you describe as “getting screwed” sounds like one-itis to me and frankly one-itis is cancer for the male soul; excise it with fire.
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Say it with me, say it loud and say proud: “Justify my love, wench!”
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@ Lara
Yes. Young love is the most intense.
Ya, it’s also like living in a prison of sorts. Love like that is more enslaving than liberating imo. I had that kind of love once and frankly I don’t want to feel love in that specific way ever again. Kind of like I never need to do XTC ever again; I am glad I did it and it does feel mind blowingly great, but to feel like that all the time, or to chase that feeling seems kind of corny to me.
It is better for it to be experienced only once. There are other types of loves that are just as cool and don’t completely leave you gasping like a crack head for more. That shit is for adolescents and women. Btw I know a chick who is addicted to falling in and out of love and frankly I pity her, a total slave much like a heroin addict.
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I have become quite the Beta Male for a hot guy who owns a big fat cat. I always wondered if my betaness was a turn off for him. Once I was a cool calm chick and now I’m…ummm…cRaaaZy in looooove!
I think a high dose of non-stop female betaness can be a turn off for men-non?
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Hi all… as a regular reader of this blog, I just have a question:
How does one, in an LTR, know just how much to play the Alpha game?
Admittedly, I have fallen for my GF. Yes, I can play the alpha game well, and yes, I do my share of withholding too much affection, and so forth.
But when do I reach the danger point of being TOO aloof? TOO alpha?
example: She works nights. from 8:00pm to 3:00am, gone. If she sends me an ‘I miss you soooo much! xoxo” text at 11:00pm… when is it acceptable to text back? My alpha side knows better than to instantly hit reply on the Android… and would love to make an excuse for responding 3 hours later…
But if I do that too much, she might pull back, no? She has fallen for me BIG TIME, but I just need assistance to how aloof I could go without making her take off…
Any ideas, or better yet, any specific books or posts would be much appreciated.
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And this:
http://www.marriedmansexlife.com/
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Sorry, previous comment referring to a comment in moderation. Basically search out ‘Relationship Game Week’ posts, and particularly ‘A Reader’s Journey’.
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Modernguy–
Tight game helped me seduce and love enslave a very very hot much much younger smart girl who I adore. Her adoration love for me brought that on for me towards her. A little less than from her to me and definitely after, yes, but that’s hand and good. Masculine is various flavors of domination and leadership of the feminine, and winning her joyous submission.
That tends to be the way it is for some time now for me.
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Curious,
Since it isn’t much trouble to text someone it seems natural to text your girlfriend back fairly quickly. Just don’t be as mushy in your message as she was in hers. You could say something about how you’ll see her in a few hours and tell her to get back to work in a nice way.
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Curious–
Aside from avoid big beta pitfalls, which it sounds like you more or less know about, the answer is CALIBRATE according to HER reactions to you.
In a LTR when she’s mad attracted, you should definitely give her more comfort than you did when capturing her.
Occasionally zing her. But then if she gets butt hurt, comfort her. Avoid apologizing, but soften it. Say you were playing with her, or acting out. But care about her.
When she unloads tons of emotional worries or self doubt and so on to you, don’t respond to the details of it trying to fix things usually. But tell her she can do that with you if it feels better to her. And hug her strongly, reassure her, be her rock. Tell her she’s alright and being too emotional. That’s alright but she’ll get over it; she has you.
That kind of thing.
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“example: She works nights. from 8:00pm to 3:00am, gone. If she sends me an ‘I miss you soooo much! xoxo” text at 11:00pm… when is it acceptable to text back? My alpha side knows better than to instantly hit reply on the Android… and would love to make an excuse for responding 3 hours later…”
An alpha would be too engrossed in what he is doing that he would text her back… at his leisure. That’s the whole point and what under girds the idea of not texting back right away. Frankly, I think it’s just as beta to *have a set time* as it is to text back immediately but it serves a purpose for a beta trying to unlearn bad habits. Ergo, if you know you are beta to the core… it’s best to wait anywhere from 15 minutes to 1 hour.
However, in an ideal world you should be doing something so important to YOU that there is no set time for a response. One night it’s 30 minutes, the next night it’s 1 hour, the next it’s immediate, the next you don’t respond at all because you were jamming on your guitar with your buddies while drinking brews and forgot your phone.
Capische ?
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@Curious….
Yes, I’m in a similar situation. Girl I gamed now says “I love you”…
But I stepped into beta territory last weekend when we went to a party and she acted flighty, sat with her friends and basically ignored me.
I got up to leave at some point and she came running over trying to stop me. I left, she left. I banged her and she said “I love you.”
But there’s been tension ever since.
I recognize the tension is that “What is he/she thinking??”
She had some male orbiter friend in town that she escorted to a party last night.
I basically ignored her. Then I chatted her up. She was all giggly and attentive.
Then I left her and left the party.
She never called/texted to follow up and neither did I.
I recognize this as some type of shit-test.
Last week I was in needy territory.
This week, I’ve transcended that and am back to being my alpha aloof self giving her just enough attention to express interest, but backing off to leave her with beta orbiter so I can assess what exactly is going on.
She’s extremely jealous. But as with most chicks, it doesn’t work both ways. She can have beta orbiter friends.
But when I spend a little too much time making some girl laugh and gaming some chick in front of her…she fumes.
Anyone have any experience with this? How do I exploit that “tension” that now exists.
I’m actually wondering whether this is a symptom of a possible break-up, or a symptom of that chick thing they do when they’re in love and they start backing away, then coming back uncertaiin of how to act.
We’ve planned to meet up to go to a concert tonight, so last night’s beta-orbiter night was kind of a “girls night” + gay friend for her. I gave her that and backed off.
Any suggestions?
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@Bhetti
“”I don’t think it does — in fact think some form of monitoring a man via little tests is so intrinsic that its impossible — but it’s not as explicit and rejecting in its nature (i.e. subtle, unconscious), more of an invitation to show your stuff than a challenge and you’d have to fail much more of them than when in the courtship stage that precedes her falling in love with you. Does that ring true?””
Yes…I see that happening right now in my situation.
I’m getting those “shit tests” which are her checking to see 1) whether I get pissed/jealous when she ignores me in public. And yes, admitedly I took the bait on that by leaving and giving her a blast about that. But I recovered to the point she confessed “I love you”…and “You have me”.
But I regrouped. I assessed my own neediness and determined that “feelings aren’t facts”.
My own neediness may be a reaction to her shit-testing but it’s not based on anything in reality.
So this week, when she showed up with her “friend”…who I let her be. I acted normal. I acted aloof. I could see from her reaction that she was confused. But by being fun, funny yet aloof, it was now for her to be self-conscious.
I never let on in any way that I may be pissed. I observed. I left the party while she was chatting with beta orbiter.
I know she noticed. But that night we didn’t have any plans and I backed off completely.
I think with guys, the more you act clingy and needy, the more you get strung along.
A girl in love who is clingy is actually a big turn-off.
Likewise for a guy.
Being attentive, but otherwise acting aloof—not angry, but not overly friendly was my strategy.
But what guys who go beta when they’re falling for someone tend to forget…and I now look at my own behaviour and wonder if it’s something “hard-wired” into my brain…is that when something that was once in reach is suddenly out of reach….we panic.
Is this the competitive nature of alphas in love?
is this somehow a vulnerability in the alpha armour?
When I’m conscious of it…I can manage it.
When it’s raw shit-testing and button-pushing by her, I lose my alpha frame and it takes time to get it back.
Remembering why she fell for you in the first place is extremely important to move it forward.
The fact you were aloof, you gamed her, you popped in and out. You were attentive, you didn’t acknowledge her behaviour, or her beta orbiter and acted bemused when she looked over at you and then you walked away….all those things need to continue to drive the relationship forward.
Girls want your attention but they don’t want it all the time.
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desperate, aggressive, likely belligerent thirty year old feminist christian seeks long term partner (with a laundry list to match) via craigslist:
http://toronto.en.craigslist.ca/tor/w4m/2246063146.html
lol.
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sofia,
I think she sounds fun.
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julian,
Yes I agree. People past their teenage years are perfectly capable of feeling strong love, but it usually is a little more tempered by reality which isn’t such a bad thing. I had a teenage boy near my house a few years ago on the phone with a girlfriend who must have been breaking up with him. He was crying and screaming and it was hard to listen to. Especially for boys a little maturity is a good thing.
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lara,
i hope that was sarcasm. she sounds like the kind of woman – single at 30, no less – who hyperinflates her dating, market value and romanticizes her flaws as an excuse to not cultivate herself. moreover, fancying herself as some kind of intellectual because she punctuates her craigslist ad dramatically and makes an attempt at a form of clever semantic wordplay.
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how to be an alpha male:
know what you want and why you want it.
figure out how to get it.
fearlessly pursue it until you get it.
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sofia,
Yes. She might be fun to hang out with as a friend, but I think if I were a man I’d steer clear. The comment about the fork especially is a big red flag.
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I wouldn’t be surprised if she gets some responses though.
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me neither. but most of the pitying beta male sad sack variety whom she will most likely be repulsed by.
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[…] and i are on the same page here. he also makes a comparison with the stockholm syndrome. oh yeah. A woman in love suffers from a form of Stockholm Syndrome. […]
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my boyfriend and i devised a competing ad with a cropped body pic of myself and those feminist trolls flagged me within three minutes :c
proof that most women (at least on an underlying level) can sense that their aggressiveness and whole ‘mental issues masquerading as an intellectual persona’ shtick is offputting.
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Xactly. Randomize it. Let her hamster become your ally.
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Jaysus!
People shoot horses, too.
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Regarding this posts’ final sentence, you can only speak for yourself.
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Walawala,
I think you’re in the mode of overanalyzing. Worrying about being beta/alpha is beta. Alpha’s feel what they feel, no matter what, we don’t worry if it’s beta. And we have no problem expressing what bothers us/what we like.
You sound like you are afraid to lose her… which is beta. Remove that fear and you will cease to worry, and you will enjoy your interactions with this girl a lot more. And she with you. The tension that is happening is a result of incongruencies in your behaviour, she’s gonna shit test the hell out of you in the immediate future. Get ready.
My 2 cents.
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This post makes your Charlie Sheen entry look like it was written by Albert Einstein (who, i hear, was quite the CH of his time).
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Lara
Zing!!!!
You American women like to pretend that you are capable of giving proper, feminine love.
The reality is that once you realize your sexual market value and society amps it up 2-3 notches, the only men who are worthy of your love are the men who won’t even give you the time of day. You have priced yourself out of the market. Of course with the hookup culture you can delude yourself indefinitely, but your decreasing level of happiness betrays you.
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“A woman in love, in short, suffers from a form of Stockholm Syndrome. She is held captive by her lover, and wouldn’t have it any other way.”
Hey, we’re all a little blind and irrational when we are in love. That’s what makes love so wonderful. We can, for those moment in time be engulfed in the emotions and lost in the uncertainties. Savour those feelings and loss of control cause it won’t last.
It’s only with these emotions, (the fuel that creates the tension) that we are able to heighten our physical connection with the other.
I’m imprisoned and I love my captor…….awwwww
note: The most important thing is to TRY to be aware of those intoxicating emotions and NOT TRUST even yourself ( your inner voice) during those moments nor act on their ( those emotions ) crazy behalf.
NOW for something completely different! hehe!!
“So, wait, I need to tell you something….( making my lips pouty, so he will pay attention hee! hee! it works! heheh!!). “I think she ( this ONE girl that I know) hates me”….( looking sad and walking closer to him to GIVE him a chance to hug me….hee! hee!) To my surprise he ask, “Only ONE?heheheheh!” we both started to laugh!!! LOL!!!!! I still got my hug! hehe!!
Isn’t he good! hehehheeh!! I told you I love his responses. He crakes me up allllll the time!!!! lol!!!
Good night everyone 🙂
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Yes indeed, young love can be the most intense. That is why I twice blurted out that shit about Suze Rotolo. She was an early and very influential girlfriend of Bob Dylan. She inspired many of his best songs. She was on the cover of his break thru album. And she looked EXACTLY like the 19 year old red haired Italian girl that I completely lost my 20 year old mind over. That experience shorted out my whole brain for about a year. Maybe there is something about being in the naked presence of one of the hottest, ripest things in the Universe – when you yourself are swirling in fresh oceans of testoterone – that certain circuits can get over-driven to the point of being permanently altered. Did I mention that she was a Red Head? All of those rumors are absolutely true, btw.
nuther subject: If your comment is snagged in the moderation net, just change the few words that self evidently might be tripping the alarms and re-submit. Or better yet, just mis-spell the offending words. “Nooclear bommb drupped on the Whitte Haus” would sail right past the filters used by the CIA or even your local High School.
Waiting patiently for approval to be granted is not a place where one should spend a lot of time.
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assuming that “WIL” stands for woman in love?
yeah.
more than once, too.
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che, i disagree completely
each time i’ve fallen in love it’s been exponentially more powerful and consuming than the last. my current love (i’m in my mid thirtys) blows all my young loves out of the water.
i think there are at least three reasons why this is true:
one/ when i was younger it was just about the wham, bam, bang, and so it was limited to sexual infatuation. which was intense, but barely a blip on the seizmograph compared to sexual infatuation that’s infused and kept alive by emotion.
two/ my standards for love have gotten higher with each love — I.E anything that didn’t exceed previous loves wouldn’t register as love.
three/ until i was in my late twentys i lived and worked on schedules that were incompatible with my hard wiring, so i walked through life like a zomby. now i experience everything, including emotion, more intensely.
finally, for the “getting a woman under your spell makes *you* love *her* more, too” crowd, that’d also be a fourth reason: if you learn game and learn to manage your woman better, the logical conclusion would be that you’d love her more intensely as a result of your devotion. right no?
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@Donlak
“”Alpha’s feel what they feel, no matter what, we don’t worry if it’s beta. And we have no problem expressing what bothers us/what we like.””
Breakthrough moment. One of the best insights on this blog…
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Doug ”
bhetti’s admission that shit tests never stop even when a woman is in love was nice to hear from a woman.
Yeah I know that first hand. But they’re kinda softball shiite tests. As she says they’re more of the character of goading me a little to show my alpha stuff at that moment for a thrill, which she is relishing my doing, than filtering once again.”
–> Whoa you 2 are seeing each other live now??
Crazy stuff man. Hows that working out?
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“Women who aren’t getting boned properly by a strong man can get really crazy. Be careful around them; some of them want to hurt you and drag you down. I learned this the hard way.”
I agree with this. This is why I think traditional marriage is a good thing. Not because I want to get married myself, but because it helps to keep past-their-prime bitter, angry women from floating around causing trouble. At least if they’re married they can just focus on making their husbands miserable.
Too many women get pumped and dumped throughout their youth then end up as trouble-making angry women that aren’t worth putting up with anymore.
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… but you cannot deny that hard practitioners of game must reconcile themselves to a new kind of loneliness. Yes, the rewards are great. But that emotional distance can blind a practitioner to a really good thing coming.
Not to mention the hardness one develops, as one learns the craft. The initial rejections, and there always is initial rejections as one learns the ins & outs of the craft, can harden a practitioner to a stone cold cynicism.
It’s a new kind of stoicism methinks, and Seneca didn’t come to a good end …
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GOLD.
This is a classic post and it looks like it hit a nerve with the trolls.
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I could very much relate to the list. Several different times I fell in love with a LJBF and what’s on the list is exactly how I thought, felt, and behaved.
I have been in a long term (10 years) relationship with my live in girlfriend. All the passion and excitement is long gone. I lost my romantic feelings towards her when she put on weight. Plus she nags me all the time, sometimes she yells. The only reason we both stay in this is the comfort level. We are used to each other.
So when I read the list it actually made me miss my days of being single and all the girls who LJBFed me. I look back on it fondly because for all the heartache and frustration I liked the feeling of being in love. It was a high to my brain. Getting an official LJBJ talk never took that high away and in fact made it more intense…turning the woman into a Goddess like figure.
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Both are relying on charity. Beta males require the girl of their affection to ‘like’ them. They’re waiting for them to confirm they do.
When I woman has given herself to you, she’s also at your mercy and also just waiting for you to decide when to give.
It’s the dating game. I wouldn’t want to be either. Rather I’d be a male and a complete and utter cunt. Which I am. It’s great to be me.
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Rum,
Bob sometimes makes references to redheads in his lyrics, Tangled Up in Blue is one song I’m thinking of.
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Oh, christ.
The amount of beta male mistakes I made in my last “relationship” (quote marks because it never even reached that stage). I knew about game beforehand too, I just thought this girl was different.
She was similar to me in terms of introversion, hence I thought she was innocent, hence I thought she was a “paragon of feminine virtue”, hence I pushed for things to move quickly to a relationship, hence I scared her off, hence I pushed further, hence, hence, hence.
I also assumed, because she’d only been in one short relationship and never went clubbing etc, that she was sexually inexperienced. I actually thought she may be a virgin. That was soon crushed when we were dirty texting and she asked me if I’d “done anything in the woods before?”, before later telling me that she’d also done stuff outside a church. Fuck. Assume they’re a slut, indeed.
What’s more annoying is that looks wise she’s a 6 at best. Socially inept. Flat chested. And she STILL teased like crazy.
After coming across this blog a couple of months back, I started acting dominant and she was responsive, but I think I’d failed too many of her shit tests, and upon her being indecisive and bitchy about a possible upcoming meeting, I told her I had other plans and to not bother. I then deleted her number and the following week deleted her from Facebook. I haven’t contacted her since or heard from her since, and that was about a month and a half ago.
Like I said, I’m introverted, and also stuck in existential depression, so my options are non-existent, which is why I got hung up on this one.
Also, a question.
She told me she’d read Neil Strauss’s book, The Game. I never got out of her why she read it. Why would she read it? Thinking back she was an absolute sucker for when I’d game her, for whatever reason I was just blind to that and didn’t realise until it was done and I was thinking back over it, but you’d think she’d be less responsive if she understood it.
Ah, it felt good to get that all out.
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Thar be trolls today on the Chateau grounds….
Where’s GBFM when you need him?
The WIL post brings up why you need to be a responsible alpha. Girls don’t mind you taking them to the extremes of sexual deviancy….IF…. you can bring them back down gently so they don’t feel like sluts.
Sometimes you even have to stay until morning. They don’t mind sharing if you’re humane about it.
@ Walawala
I thought you were a stone cold mack.
None of my business but I don’t see the point in passing her shit-tests if there are only more to follow. Some girls you have to ice out and regulate on constantly just to get by, your pimp hand will tire. Not worth the trouble IMO.
I would follow the advice of Scarface:
“Is okay, is okay. Let her go. She take another quaalude, she love me in the morning.” I recite those lines when I get blown out, helps me lol it off.
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Still waiting for the post that reviews “Hall Pass”.
It just got $14 million at the box office and it’s about married men who are let free by their wives to pursue other women for a week and, of course, the men end up wishing the week would hurry up and end so they can be back with their beloved wives.
Trailers show the predictable: miserable pick up lines getting the man rejected so they wish they were back with their wives, trysts with cougars and not young hotties which the screenwriters/producers want men to know are no longer an option for such middle-aged men, you know the drill. If the full version is not propaganda, let us know.
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Quotes from the trailer of “Hall Pass”:
Ugly harridan: “Most married men believe that, if not for you, they could actually be with these other women”.
Sounds like a vengeful Hymowitz type wrote this script.
Some PUA advice found in the trailer:
When you’re with one woman and want to check out another’s butt. Look to where the butt will be, not where it is.
A woman will surround herself with less attractive women to make herself look like a 10.
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David Edelstein of New York Magazine would probably refer to this blog as perpetuating the “Life Lie” of Ibsen and Oneill.
Here is this mangina’s review of “Hall Pass”:
It’s ostensibly a male who wrote this review. Sure, I know New York Magazine wouldn’t hire a real man to write anything, but if you check more “Hall Pass” reviews, you will probably find more of this idea that 40 something men couldn’t date beautiful young women in their twenties.
Life lie? I’m sure the guys on this blog are living the “lie” quite well.
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walawala–
Do it anyway. Laugh at her fuming. Tease her about being jealous and attempting to be controlling. Say you’re a social guy that likes talking and joking around with other girls as well as guys. Save the she has guy friends thing until it will zing just right. But don’t set up a situation where if she stops kidding around with her male orbiter(s) you will too. Just be unphased. And personally, I also wouldn’t offer sexual fidelity. Just say you’ve been enjoying being w/her — except when she gets like this …
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Hall Pass… a movie Charlie Sheen will NOT see.
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That post is a blistering indictment.
There are so many brief snapshots, so many bullet points made, wherein I’ve seen myself, ————— that it makes for tremendously painful reading.
Good grief!
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man you are the greatest, really I almost pissed myself reading this, great great stuff!
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walawala,
Your girlfriend’s irrational jealousy may feed your ego, but it is really an attempt to try to control. You are allowed to talk to other attractive women even in her presence. Gaming them or being overly friendly when your girlfriend is right there is a little wrong and also kind of beta. It isn’t really worth hurting a decent girlfriend’s feelings just for some attention from some woman who has never done anything for you. If you aren’t doing anything that you feel is disrespectful to her, though, then she is just going to have to deal with it.
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Makes me sick when a man says “creepy” in this context. I’m seeing more and more guys use the female word creepy, attempting to show women that you identify with them.
It’s pathetic.
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Exeter said: “Makes me sick when a man says “creepy” in this context. I’m seeing more and more guys use the female word creepy, attempting to show women that you identify with them.”
Folks, man-up, use “gaytarded” instead… leave no politically-correct sensitivity unoffended as you show your manliness! For example,
The idea is, frankly, gaytarded, suggesting that
middle-aged men sentenced to monogamy can
go back to high school…
See? Not only did you disagree but you had ballz too! (She’s onto the fake B.S. anyway, so why not?)
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How about this:
“The idea is, frankly, alphabulous, suggesting that
middle-aged men sentenced to monogamy can
go back to high school…”
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*chic noir sits back with her group of angry feminists*
chic noir: ladies ladies… I say we’re winning the war. As long as we keep getting them in the formative years…. why there is nothing the men can do.
*chic noir toats marcus A and anon.
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“Alphabulous” seems to be a more accurate description of middle aged guys banging much younger women.
A term like “gaytarded” would be better applied to sex change operations, cross-dressing, sexless marriages and closet-cases with wives and kids.
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Deeeez Nutz said: “Alphabulous” seems to be a more accurate description of middle aged guys banging much younger women.
True, but we’re trying get in good with the babes while trying not to be a totally transparent suck-up. However, if we’re going for both honesty and ballz…
“The idea is, frankly, fuckin’ Charlie Sheen-tastic, suggesting that middle-aged men sentenced to monogamy can go back to high school…”
Agree with da movie w/ ballz– that could get her aroused (or throwing things, whichever… crazy women give the best sex).
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Wouldn’t it be dangerous to marry a girl that really loved you in an intense, romantic way? It will not last, and when it goes…. Or, maybe she will kill you if you stray.
It would be safer for a girl to marry a guy who loves her deeply, as along as she planned not to screw around on him. The guy will not fall out of love so fast, as long as she stays reasonable. He might cherish her for many years.
BTW, to someone, who because of advanced age, is occasionally able to think rationally and without undue hormonal influence, most of what is said on this blog sounds like the ravings of lunatics.
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For all you beta’s out there:
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@Marshy, Doug1
I came up with a new way to deal with the complaining and the shit tests.
When she started complaining about not wanting to go somewhere or do something and listing the irrelevant reasons, I looked at her, smiled and said “Meow meow meow meow meow”.
She stopped. Started laughing and asked “What’s meow meow?”
I did it again…
Now each time she starts with the “It’s too crowded…” or whatever… I start with the stupid cat sounds.
@Lara,
Thanks for the comment,
“”Gaming them or being overly friendly when your girlfriend is right there is a little wrong and also kind of beta. “”
I’m not sure how gaming other girls is “beta”.
Does this feed into the idea that an insecure guy (beta) NEEDS adulation vs an alpha who games because he enjoys it and it makes the girls feel good?
After learning game for a year and landing a decent girl as a result, one thing I’m beginning to understand is that “alpha” is whatever you make it to be.
If you do something naturally, without the thought of trying to curry favour, or get something it’s alpha.
If you do so out of insecurity, it’s supplication.
Understanding this helps me to say what I want to say whenever I want to say it.
My girl asked me why I had asked her out at a particular time.
My response: “Because I felt like it…”
Rather than: “Because you had a nice smile and blah blah blah…”
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Gramps said: “BTW, to someone, who because of advanced age, is occasionally able to think rationally and without undue hormonal influence, most of what is said on this blog sounds like the ravings of lunatics.”
True, but we’re some spirited and entertaining raving lunatics! 🙂
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Hey, all you gamesters out there…
Along with the physica/behavior “tell” Kay Hymowitz give in her book about if female feels yer hot, here’s a whole article on such stuff… newz you can use!
“Attraction: How Our Bodies Give Us Away When We’re Attracted to Someone,” Road Tickle, 21 July 2010
http://roadtickle.com/attraction/?utm_source=avalanchers.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=avalanchers
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Complete surrender requires agreement that their lover is in complete control all the way down to the core.
I’ve been on both sides, and I actually recommend both if your a man of any quality you can survive being a complete bitch and you will have an endless font of rage to draw upon.
If you survive being the trapper, you will have the gentle repose that comes from understanding, respecting, and caring for your prey.
Marriage is inherently flawed because both ARE mutually exclusive.
You get closer and closer by the day to understanding outside of the influence of game. I’d refer you to Don Juans idea of the movement of the assemblage point. When you can guide someones life that way, they will love you as a beta. Non-natural men are easy to give that up because they so desperately want the certainty they have to project.
For the rest of you commenters please note that people reside in these spaces for a given period of time, noone is inherently anything – and everyone is fighting their own war. Be especially kind when it’s the right time to be and especially harsh when the opportunity presents itself.
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<<>>
And if we lose the girl as a result, so be it.
To me, a true alpha male doesn’t play the games or take the shit tests. Usually when that happens, I just tell them straight up that I don’t play that shit and would rather cut to the chase. Yes, I’ve pissed off a lot of women that way, but have gotten girlfriends just the same.
You can express desire without being mushy about it. If my ladyfriend ignored me at a party, would I say something about it? Yes indeed. But it would NOT be all like: “oh darling, please dont ignore me.” It would be more like: “what the fuck is your problem? if you wanna hang with your friends and flirt with the men, fine, but not on my time.”
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my above post was a reaction to what donlak said:
“Worrying about being beta/alpha is beta. Alpha’s feel what they feel, no matter what, we don’t worry if it’s beta. And we have no problem expressing what bothers us/what we like.”
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http://dating.uk.msn.com/edito/index.php?mtcmk=080509&name=5/114/574-53-secrets-girls-don-t-want-guys-to-know.html&ocid=today
Dude, watch that hamster spin!
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Been a lurker, but had to post this:
Isn’t it ironic that Owen Wilson plays a character who can’t pick up chicks and wants to be with his wife by the conclusion, when in real life up until he met his current gf was usually photographed at movie premiers with mutiple women on his arm?
Not to mention the fact that he’s up for fatherhood but is not engaged gives the impression he doesn’t believe in marriage as a ‘must-do’.
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Yup, my LTR chick definitely fits 95% of those… but I already knew she was in love with me thanks to one drunken conversation she had with my buddy 3 weeks into the relationship. It’s week 8 now and I’m about to jump ship… after I take her anal virginity.
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“Makes me sick when a man says “creepy” in this context. I’m seeing more and more guys use the female word creepy, attempting to show women that you identify with them.
It’s pathetic”
Stop being a little bitch, it’s a word.
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walawala,
I stand corrected, gaming another girl in front of your girlfriend isn’t beta at all. I just meant trying too hard to make your girlfriend jealous, unless she is really being cold, would be a little beta. If you want to talk to another woman, and men that like women normally do, of course you should and any girlfriend that thinks she has a right to stop that needs to be put in her place or sent on her merry little way.
Your answer to your girlfriend about why you asked her out was good. I used to ask guys I was with what they though of me looking for validation and an ego boost. My favorite response was always was, “You’re alright” and maybe he could add something about me having a cute smile. Any more then that and it would have been too fawning.
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walawala,
It reminds me of when I was starting my freshman year in college. My uncle knew a student who was a junior of senior there and he asked him if he could show me around a little. This guy said he couldn’t because he had a girlfriend. I remember thinking that was really beta. He could have brought his girlfriend along.
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“I just meant trying too hard to make your girlfriend jealous, unless she is really being cold, would be a little beta”
Most betas are afraid to make their gfs jealous… that would be counter intuitive to their pedestal-esque, female-pleasing, beta thinking ways.
But I agree, an angry beta might try to get back at a gf who wronged him (i.e. cheating) by retaliating in that fashion.
Where an alpha just wouldn’t give a shit or would have dropped her already, the beta can go overboard by trying to act alpha and failing.
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@walawala
When she started complaining about not wanting to go somewhere or do something and listing the irrelevant reasons, I looked at her, smiled and said “Meow meow meow meow meow”.
heh. i sometimes do ‘wah wah wah wah wah’ (mimicing the sound of adults talking from the old charlie brown cartoons).
you could look her straight in the eyes, make a face like you’re about to cry, and play an air violin.
alternative to that one is, bring your hand up to face level and slide your thumb and forefinger across each other. when she asks you what that is, say ‘it’s the world’s smallest violin, playing just for you’ (a la reservoir dogs).
basically, anything where you’ve acknowledged you’ve heard her but dismiss her complaints as inconsequential, will work.
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@Gmac, Lara,
I’m reading your posts and thinking about my own situation.
If I was deliberately TRYING to make my girlfriend jealous by chatting up other girls in front of her…It would mean I was thinking too much about her…and that would be beta.
Not talking to girls in front of her….beta.
Talking to other girls…then walking back to her in front of the other girls…is alpha.
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Some years ago Ann Coulter wrote that the reason women were put on this earth was to make men better.
I used to hate her for that comment, but after all these years, I realize she is right.
Is there anything more disgusting on this earth than the “nice guy?”.
I have always hated these losers, now through this blog, and my life, I realize that women loathe them as much as I do.
It’s true you know, nice guys finish last, they deserve to. The best you can do is crucify them, it’s an act of mercy.
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Walawala–
Good, because it’s not.
Your default should be to never take seriously the charge by women that you’re doing something out of insecurity.
Insecurity is a charge that women like to throw around without a lot of thought as one of their go to charges when a guy is doing something that would make THEM feel insecure especially, but also just about anything they don’t like.
It’s much more things that women think they like in the short term, such as doing them disproportionate favors and giving them lots of compliments, that men do out of insecurity about their attractiveness to women or that woman.
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walawala–
Not really. Not if you do a good, well calibrated job of it. Of course you should also enjoy it. And enjoy the options such a strategy will eventually generate.
This falls under the rubric of “fake it ’til you make it”.
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Anonymous–
She could have done those things within her single relationship.
There are good kinds of “sluts” and not so good kinds of sluts, at least for LTRs and falling in love with them. The good kind are what I like to call a “one man slut”. You should always try to bring out the sexual heat and daring and adventerousness in a girl.
The bad kind for a LTR is a girl who’s had sex with a ton of other guys and had her hopes dashed and heart broken enough times that she’s no longer capable of deeply falling in love. Just a close affection she will call love, in order to reassure the (often hoodwinked) guy she can attract for a LTR and herself.
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I’ve been with well over 100 women. generating WIL behavior is invariably a factor of how dominant I am with her, inside and out of the bedroom. As an old woman once said, my ability to “hit the bottom and work the middle” of that pussy, to alternate between loving tenderness and side angle thrusting, turning her body into a pretzel, remaining present and fucking her well and good, creates “love”.
Same within a relationship- alternating loving with harshness and/or aloofness, generates WIL reactions.
I’ve made good money and also been completely broke. I’ve gone through spiritual phases of loving spirituality with brash devil-may-care, fuck-everything-that-moves, drink-and-rail-pills-till-I-drop hedonism. neither modality affected my ability to attract and fuck hot women and keep them around. Only my animal aggressiveness with their minds and bodies inside and outside the bedroom, did.
To those who say the only people who hang out it bars are losers, fuck you. I own a bar. I love love love the live music. I dig hot women who love music. Those are automatic winner points in my book. I’ve seen plenty of “losers” at church, IKEA, and any other place where humans exists. Percentages are meaningless. So what if only 5% of the women in a venue are “relationship material”, however you define that. Use your brain to identify them, then grab your nutsack and go speak to them and take the first step to fucking them thoroughly… That is, after all, what every woman wants. Calling someone a “loser” just makes you a judgmental prick. It probably means you’re NOT getting the pussy tonight that you’d really love to have, if you were honest.
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Am I the only one who finds all of the ‘alpha’ and ‘beta’ generalizations played out and not entirely accurate or useful all the time?
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Ann Coulter and her ilk try to sell the notion that 1. Everybody knows that mens feral sexual instincts are predatory and dangerous and so civilization depends on them being restrained by marriage norms – because men are basically animals when it comes to sex. 2. The feral sexual instincts that women have are just fine for civilization the way they are because women are not basically like animals when it comes to sex.
If you ask A SoCom like Coulter just what examples of female feral-sex-instincts in the world of actual animals that conform to civilized human social structures they can point to – you will get silence.
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I follow this man’s parenting advice as much as I can:
http://www.rosemond.com/
It is the way you and your parents were raised.
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Sorry wrong blog.
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“Am I the only one who finds all of the ‘alpha’ and ‘beta’ generalizations played out and not entirely accurate or useful all the time?”
dafl’gdljgbvadgvad’ljgvad’bnadbnjo’
gdjl’
gdal
gbnlLJFDNGJL’VADJL’
GBNADL’
GALJGBND!!!
Motherfuckers.
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“Wouldn’t it be dangerous to marry a girl that really loved you in an intense, romantic way? It will not last, and when it goes…. Or, maybe she will kill you if you stray.
It would be safer for a girl to marry a guy who loves her deeply, as along as she planned not to screw around on him. The guy will not fall out of love so fast, as long as she stays reasonable. He might cherish her for many years.
BTW, to someone, who because of advanced age, is occasionally able to think rationally and without undue hormonal influence, most of what is said on this blog sounds like the ravings of lunatics.”
It would be safest to marry a woman solely for religious and practical reasons. Your “in love” feelings should never enter into the equation. It’s irrelevant. This is marriage, not some short relationship with no consequences.
“How do I feel about this woman/man” should never enter your mind. COLD. HARD. FACTS. And nothing else. Far too much is at stake.
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@Doug1
“”Insecurity is a charge that women like to throw around without a lot of thought as one of their go to charges when a guy is doing something that would make THEM feel insecure especially, but also just about anything they don’t like.””
Another great insight as I move from gaming to LTR game.
I read this post and noticed all the beta behaviours of the girl I’m seeing.
But I also see how she listens and imitates me…in other words she games me.
Last week she said “I love you”…my reply: “Good”.
This past week she said “Do you love me?”
My reply: “Yeah….”
Her: “Say it….you’re the man”
Me:”Ok”
Her: Come on…
Me: “I love you”
Her: “Good”
Also…this list in the original post helps me to gauge the 2/3rds rule more effectively.
If she’s giving most of these signs then to give back is proportional.
Finally it becomes clear both from this post and my own experience that women enjoy the feeling of being “in love” and the behaviours it prompts.
What the don’t want is someone who constantly witholds their feelings or responses but they do want to know that when they’ve invested emotionally there is some payback.
Get it too easily and the investment is one they can afford to lose.
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@Joseph went south
“”Same within a relationship- alternating loving with harshness and/or aloofness, generates WIL reactions. “”
This is another key insight that guys learning game need to understand.
It’s too easy to see this list and figure you’ve finished the journey.
I now realize that once you’ve hit this and generated this kind of behaviour, it requires a whole other gaming skill-set that I’d love to see more posts on…what do you do once you’ve bagged your target and want to move into LTR game…
How do you keep the woman in that state listed in the original post?
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“Marellus
… but you cannot deny that hard practitioners of game must reconcile themselves to a new kind of loneliness. Yes, the rewards are great. But that emotional distance can blind a practitioner to a really good thing coming.
Not to mention the hardness one develops, as one learns the craft. The initial rejections, and there always is initial rejections as one learns the ins & outs of the craft, can harden a practitioner to a stone cold cynicism.
It’s a new kind of stoicism methinks, and Seneca didn’t come to a good end …”
The emotional closeness was an illusion. It was one-sided. Even if the girls did feel it too, they have no problem going out after her guy friend/boyfriend is done yapping and being lame to find some douchebag piece of shit who will fuck her like a rabbit regardless of how wet she is and cum in less than 5 minutes, fart, and leave without thinking of how much she liked or disliked it. She will fuck this same scumbag whenever he wants.
It only hurts for guys who can’t let go of the illusion. Girls get to look for their fathers. Men don’t have the luxury of searching for their mothers for the rest of their lives.
That type of love is what you feel for someone you want to keep safe. Women don’t want to keep their man safe. You will never get that again.
In short, be nice to your moms and sisters, men.
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I think of it as growing together within a relationship. It takes continuous work on BOTH SIDES to keep that “in love” feeling persistent during a long-term relationship. If either side slacks, they’ll lose it.
There’s a different skill-set involved though… skills that are often chided as being “beta” for a single man, are actually a necessity to maintain a stable and happy relationship… you know, like listening, empathizing, sacrifice, open communication, compromise, etc., etc.
The whole game changes as soon as those “I love you’s” come out. Some of the principles are the same (maintain dominance, don’t put her on a pedestal, etc.), but the actual tactics can be completely backwards.
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from tea party chain email:
——–Forwarded Message——–
From a chain email:
Russell K. Nieli recently brought to light a new study by Princeton sociologist Thomas Espenshade and his colleague Alexandria Radford that shows that lower-income European Americans (poor whites) are the most discriminated against group of people in college admissions.
Nieli writes: “When lower-class whites are matched with lower-class blacks and other non-whites the degree of the non-white advantage becomes astronomical: lower-class Asian applicants are seven times as likely to be accepted to the competitive private institutions as similarly qualified whites, lower-class Hispanic applicants eight times as likely, and lower-class blacks ten times as likely. These are enormous differences and reflect the fact that lower-class whites were rarely accepted to the private institutions Espenshade and Radford surveyed.”
Get that? Not African Americans, not Mestizo Americans — but European Americans are the most discriminated against group in college admissions.
This widespread discrimination against European Americans should be unsurprising. And immigration is making it worse, as more non-whites immigrate here their “disparate impact” status makes them prime affirmative action candidates.
All other racial groups have powers lobbying on their behalf. Blacks have the NAACP, mestizos have La Raza, Asians have the 80-20 Initiative, Indians have USINPAC, etc. What do European Americans have?
When other groups lobby on behalf of their ethnic interests and whites do nothing, whites are bound to receive the short end of the stick. And all the while this is taking place, many whites pursue the “ostrich strategy”. They stick their heads in the sand and wish it were otherwise.
Time to take your heads out of the sand, white people.
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Little John, you really should get that obsessively racist neo-con tea party shit out of here before Charlie Sheen chops off your head with a rusty wood saw and pours molten lava down your quivering, stumpy throat.
…Too much?
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Religious Social Conservative like A. Coulter and L. Auster will eventually recognise that every increase in the success of the Gamesphere progressively erodes the underpinnings of their worldview.
The map of reality they follow tells them that men have sexual instincts that are destructive to a decent social order and so must be “civilized” by marriage laws and the influence of women if civilization is to be maintained. Along with that is the notion that female sexual instincts are just fine the way they are since the sweet dears just want one good man to stick around and be nice and supportive to them, their kids, and puppies, etc. What they really believe, as well, is that this picture reflects the intentions of the Divine – therefore it is on men to simply obey the Divine Plan.
But consider what happens to this worldview when a generation or two of young women absorb the message that they do not need a supportive nice guy who will always stick around – and they more or less instanteously reveal a disdain for sexing betas and reveal a naked preference for alpha cads? This scenario points directly to the insight that the supposedly innate desire of women for protector, provider nice guys is not a stable quality of women at all but merely an adaptation to circumstances. Never mind that the relevant circumstances (wolves, children needing a dedicated man to survive, etc.) have prevailed for 1000s of years. That is a drop in the bucket as compared to deep evolutionary time. What if the experiment being done by the unprecedented empowerment of young females to express their truly feral mating instincts is uncovering just how uncivilized those deeper instincts really are?
If it was not God who made women want nice guys and it was not nature that made them want nice guys and it becomes clear that the reasons they appeared to want nice guys turn out to be mere epiphenenom – then what in the name of God is left of their beliefs regarding gender and society?
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“If it was not God who made women want nice guys and it was not nature that made them want nice guys and it becomes clear that the reasons they appeared to want nice guys turn out to be mere epiphenenom – then what in the name of God is left of their beliefs regarding gender and society?”
God does not even enter into the equation because God not exist. Society is a product of evolution and will continue to change based on the moral/social zeitgeist. You can thank the feminist movement for these “independent women.” I don’t agree that it is a worldwide view, there are plenty of other countries where the norms in America are completely upside down.
So why do women claim they want nice guys and then chase the opposite? The answer is simple. Women don’t actually know what they want… and they aren’t willing to admit it to themselves or to others.
It’s not nature. They read trashy magazines and watch sappy movies that program them into thinking they want nice guys. PC Society tells them that the nice guy beta is the only acceptable long term material because the alpha won’t stick around or will have his own side dishes (truth). Women really only want to “use” betas to satisfy their own needs, and when they inevitably aren’t… they look elsewhere.
Women are (more often than not) irrational and trust their instincts and emotions. Once the opportunity presents itself, the woman always go back to the alpha male. This is why so many women marry “nice guy” beta providers and then cheat on them with “bad boy” alphas.
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General Request:
Can you please inform us who is writing each post? I want to know which ones are from the original and which are not.
And who exactly are the other writers anyway?
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Gmac said: “Women are (more often than not) irrational and trust their instincts and emotions. Once the opportunity presents itself, the woman always go back to the alpha male. This is why so many women marry ‘nice guy’ beta providers and then cheat on them with ‘bad boy’ alphas.”
Nice guys are for raisin’ babies, bad boys are for makin’ ’em! (You even heard your women and her no-good ‘ho friends said that, kick her skanky ass to da curb!)
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Doug1 said: “The bad kind for a LTR is a girl who’s had sex with a ton of other guys and had her hopes dashed and heart broken enough times that she’s no longer capable of deeply falling in love.”
Unfortunate, thanks to wimmen’s lib, that’s most of ’em at 30 after their tired of the Cock Carousel. (Sloppy fifty-thirds, anyone?)
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LOLROF @ laura. How many do you have open at the same time.
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Even though I passed an Intro To Philosophy 101 Course in undergrad, these are not concepts that are so easy to verbalize. What I am angling towards is the notion that game-ology represents a paradigm that is uniquely destructive of virtually all the important things that civilized western people are encouraged to believe in, whether secular or religious. Unless, of course, you were taught as gospel the collected works of the Marquis de Sade in elementary school.
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For those keeping score, both Instapundit and Dr. Helen have linked to and favorably commented upon a post in which our Dark Lord is referred to (in the first paragraph) as “ferociously intelligent.”
Eventually they’ll figure out that CH does not refer to a person.
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Rum,
I can’t find the quote from Ann Coulter that Darwin was referring to, however I’m thinking she probably understands female hypergamy.
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Looks like my old email address is fucked up. I hope that’s not preventing my last comment from being posted! This email address will work fine until I get the other one sorted out…
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@ Rum
Western Christian Civilization’s greatest threat is itself. The fulfillment of the West’s abnegation of self is suicide. Suicide is the destiny of Western Christian Civilization.
‘Game players’ assisting its suicide is a good thing, because the sooner this selfless Civilization is gone the sooner a proud self-interested Civilization can begin.
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@walawala:
“How do you keep the woman in that state listed in the original post?”
Read the LTR posts, for one 🙂
Remember that everyone has a sampling bias. THAT’S FINE, as long as we recognize it for what it is. As long as you’re living the life you want and not subject to delusional Disney-esque fantasies about love and romance, who cares, really.
That said, I believe most modern, monogamous relationships have a time limit. Nature tends to want men to be promiscuous and women to be either promiscuous or serially monogamous. So even the most monogamous-in-principle woman is subject to being swept off her feet and fucked silly, when the time comes. All the bullshit about “we just weren’t meant to be”, or “I need to grow and be free”, is just post-facto hamster rationalization bullshit and bears little resemblance to what is actually going on in a woman’s pre-cortex.
But in an LTR you need to do exact same as in PU, with some major caveats. Here are some tips:
– Eradicate bullshit Disney memes like “men are dogs, women are princesses”, or “men like to fuck like animals, women need to be made love to”, or “women need to be bought with gifts and compliments before they’ll spread their legs”.
– M/w Complex. Eradicate that completely. It seems to be a natural tendency to start to view our loving and committed girlfriends as “not like that”, when it comes to raw sex. I think it happens gradually with time. Those loving and tender feelings are probably genuine, and since we associate that with motherhood, it tends to counteract the raw lust we may have had at the outset. Too much oxytocin from cuddling and not enough dopamine from truly dominating her and testosterone which comes in part from CONQUEST.
She wants to be beta to her man. She wants to be submissive. Most women cannot get wet once that matrix reverses on itself.
In practical terms, this means something quite simple yet very difficult for most men to consistently apply over time in an LTR. Whatever she wants, you want it just SLIGHTLY less. Having a high sex drive is good, but it’s a fine line: as soon as you become needy for it, as soon as you’re the one begging for pussy, you stop hearing that “fuck me, please! Fuck that pussy!” while you mercilessly tease her.
The day you’ve lost the ability to sexually and emotionally tease your woman is the day you’ve lost the LTR, for all intents and purposes. That’s a recipe for her being open to ME, when the time is ripe.
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Rum, et. al.,
“Religious Social Conservative like A. Coulter and L. Auster will eventually recognise that every increase in the success of the Gamesphere progressively erodes the underpinnings of their worldview.”
As if. That which the SoCons wish to conserve kicked the Gamesphere ethos the first time around and will kick it again. The trick is getting to the next thing.
The last next thing left us back where we began.
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BTW, the underpinning of the SoCon worldview, at least among those who actually understand it beyond merely hating those it hates, is an understanding of original sin, which is, at its core, merely hypergamy itself.
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Blogosphere: Where Betas become Alphas
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I really can’t imagine Anne Coulter would be against men behaving like men again instead of pussy whipped bitches who do what their wives tell them, which, btw, COMPLETELY goes against the teachings of The Bible and the example(s) set by the various biblical patriarchs accepted into God’s good graces.
Don’t be fooled by the pussified churches of today. Modern luxuries have made them just as lazy and comfortable as those who aren’t religious.
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The women you hear about converting to Islam are doing so because the secular, Christian and Jewish men they’re used to are not behaving like men.
As the evil Osama Bin Laden reminded us, people will always choose the strong horse.
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(Sorry for the triple posting..)
There is no “goal” or “aim” of the “Gamesphere” other than teaching men how to be men and take charge of the world left to them by the men who came before.
If you want to use the tools to go around fucking stupid girls all day and leaving them, then fine. Keep in mind that the leaders of the coming Islamic expansion have no need for Game. They didn’t forget to be men and to lead.
It would be better for you and this country if you used the tools to procreate and lead healthy families.
And if you think it won’t happen, take a good look at the problems Europe is facing. This country is collapsing. Being a PUA is hardly realizing the potential of Man.
Take charge and care of women or they will fuck you royally.
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Maybe slightly out of tangent but this is why they say it takes a stronger woman to be with a strong man… For a WIL will quite literally speaking bend over backwards (or forwards) for the man she has so chosen. That man becomes the center of her axis… A stronger female has the ability to lose a part of herself to the alpha male at the same time keep a fabric of her individuality. That is why sometimes a WIL changes into a WOOL (woman out of love)- weaker women tend to lose themselves completely and not keep that thread of themselves to keep them WIL.
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Here is a good test
If you are obviously wrong, but she still supports you, then she is a WIL.
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Doug1 –
Yeah, I jumped to conclusions pretty quickly and basically decided in my own mind that she was this raging slut, even though, like you said, it’s just as likely that it’s not that at all.
It’s kinda messed with me a bit, because I think I was quick to put her up as this beacon of innocence, and anything other than her being a virgin was going to ruin that idea. Then I seem to be subconsciously thinking “if she’s not innocent, then what girl is?” As you can properly garner, I’m pretty innocent myself, which is why I think this is an issue for me.
Her and this blog have really crushed my thinking on what women are. I had a minor revelation a few years ago when I first came across the community, with David DeAngelo, then with Mystery, but it’s only recently really hit home when I found a link to this blog at the tail end of my relationship with this girl. In one way, it sucks, because I’m an idealistic INFP type and I hate the fact that this is how things really are. But realistically, I’m glad I know, so I won’t keep making the same mistakes.
Thanks Doug1, I appreciate the reply.
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Way off topic but still germane…
Men over 65 have incredible experience.
Men over 65 have deep wisdom.
If the stories of such older men are not recorded, they will be lost forever.
I present a challenge to the manosphere.
Record the personal histories of those quite older men. Men only. Fathers, grandfathers, and uncles are perfect.
Do this before it’s too late and post the stories here.
These stories are vital for social history and for spreading wisdom.
To that end, I have created a part of my blog where these stories can be stored.
Some ground rules –
* Only men over 65 years old (Baby boomers need not apply unless there is some true wisdom and not shallow self-indulgence).
* Appropriate file formats if the story is recorded and linked to (Word, text, .WAV, .MP3, etc.)
* About another man (not you)
* Any theme is appropriate – work, politics, history, relationships, social history, anything. This is about the story of older men.
* If audio or video, the files must be easily heard/viewed. There is nothing worse than garbled audio and difficult to view video. If the file can’t be heard/seen, what’s the point?
If this project gets enough attention, I will personally find a way to publicize this effort.
Are you looking to find men for this project? Volunteer.
Volunteer at an active retirement community or nursing home just to listen to the stories and history of men in their later years. Volunteering is easy, put in a call in to the activities director and tell them you want to write or record the stories of the men. You will be welcomed and appreciated. I strongly recommend this to all men in the manosphere.
Use the Veterans History Project guidelines – http://www.loc.gov/vets/moreresources.html. There are great resources in the Veterans History Project.
I have a secondary website where these stories/files could be posted should this endeavor become popular. Once started in the manosphere, the stories of older men can easily go viral, such are the amazing stories of men of a certain, older age. This is history, it must be documented.
Spread the word. Document the stories. Men are important.
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walawala–
I personally make it a 1/2 or 1/3 rule. That’s not keyboard noise, I really do find that works best, usually.
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@Jay Fink:
“Getting an official LJBJ talk never took that high away and in fact made it more intense…turning the woman into a Goddess like figure.”
Your Freudian slip is showing. But yes, there’s a reason that Mary is a virgin. In fact, the English recognized this part of her appeal as a goddess to the Catholics, and devised their own Virgin Queen (though she was nothing of the sort). There’s something unpious about a slut goddess, at least for some.
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@gmac
Presenting facts is racist now? Or is it because the specific facts disagree with your worldview. I guess the facts are to be disregarded and your opinion and worldview is what is important. Are you a woman, by any chance?
http://www.mindingthecampus.com/originals/2010/07/how_diversity_punishes_asians.html
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Take a look
http://blog.okcupid.com/index.php/the-mathematics-of-beauty/
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Desi- great post. The serpent was the bad boy alpha.
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Sheen is never offtopic. Just ask him.
This is my new favorite Sheen mix.
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Shit. Let me try that again.
Sheen is never offtopic. Just ask him.
This is my new favorite Sheen mix: good mashup, nice visuals, multi-layered cultural references, Busey. It’s got everything!
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It seems to be a natural tendency to start to view our loving and committed girlfriends as “not like that”, when it comes to raw sex.
Speak for yourself.
The Madonna Whore complex is a feminist myth perpetuated to protect American girls from owning up to what getting a fat ass does to her man’s desire. Just like “too much porn” it’s a fake problem that is a convenient way to blame men. Note that MWC is the only Freudian theory that feminists are fond of. Hmmm. I wonder why?
The truth is that it’s much easier to manhandle a girl you know, than the one you just picked up in the bar. You can’t have raw sex without some raw dog. And who fucks bar skanks without a condom.
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Any data set measuring black people against white, asians, or jews, is racis, unless it involves professional athletes and jazz musicians.
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“A woman in love, in short, suffers from a form of Stockholm Syndrome. She is held captive by her lover, and wouldn’t have it any other way. ”
SO What is the cure for Stockhold Syndrome? Or is there NO CURE?
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That’s the crux of it. I would guess that not only are you disappointed that she isn’t a virgin and won’t be sharing your experiences together as a mutual first time, but you may be feeling anxious and inadequate about living up to what you imagine are her experienced expectations.
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