Science is validating unflinching, real world observation with progressively closer glimpses of the id beast lurking underneath our polite and self-deceptive exteriors. Today, science strips away the ego and superego from women’s brains and peers into the sticky, cobwebbed limbic interior to see what really turns them on.
The nature of women’s rape fantasies: an analysis of prevalence, frequency, and contents.
This study evaluated the rape fantasies of female undergraduates (N = 355) using a fantasy checklist that reflected the legal definition of rape and a sexual fantasy log that included systematic prompts and self-ratings. Results indicated that 62% of women have had a rape fantasy, which is somewhat higher than previous estimates. For women who have had rape fantasies, the median frequency of these fantasies was about 4 times per year, with 14% of participants reporting that they had rape fantasies at least once a week. In contrast to previous research, which suggested that rape fantasies were either entirely aversive or entirely erotic, rape fantasies were found to exist on an erotic-aversive continuum, with 9% completely aversive, 45% completely erotic, and 46% both erotic and aversive.
62%. That’s a majority, folks. A majority of women fantasize on average four times per year about being forcefully and nonconsensually penetrated. Nearly two out of ten women fantasize about rape at least once a week. If that doesn’t convince you of the animal nature of women’s sexuality and their deepest desire to submit to a more powerful lover, nothing will. Oh, except watching forlornly as jerks and assholes walk off with the girl of your dreams.
For those wondering what the difference is between “aversive” and “erotic” rape, here is a description culled from a number of studies examining female sexuality (with the important point bolded):
According to Kanin, erotic rape fantasies contain low to moderate levels of fear with no realistic violence. In these fantasies, women typically are approached aggressively by a dominant and attractive male who is overcome with desire for her; she feels or expresses nonconsent and presents minimal resistance; he overpowers her and takes her sexually. Kanin made the interpretation that these were not true rape fantasies, that the described resistance amounted to a “token no,” and he called these “seduction fantasies.” Participants themselves characterized these as rape situations, however, and the self-character in these fantasies showed nonconsent. As no evidence was presented that the self-character’s nonconsent was insincere, the label of “seduction” does not seem justified. [Ed: Feminists wept.] Certainly, in actual rapes minimal resistance and female sexual arousal do sometimes occur (Duddle, 1991; Johnson, 1985), and their occurrence would not render the encounter a seduction rather than a rape.
Aversive rape fantasies come closer to representing realistic rape. In these fantasies, the male is more likely to be older, unattractive, and a stranger. These fantasies contain coercive and painful violence, and little or no sexual arousal. A typical scenario for an aversive fantasy would consist of an assailant “grabbing, throwing to the ground, ripping off clothing, while the victim is fighting to keep the aggressor from achieving penetration” (Kanin, 1982, p. 117). Kanin found that women with aversive rape fantasies were more apprehensive about actual rape and more likely to have dreams of rape than were other women. The more aversive rape fantasies may operate as attempts to deal with the fear of actual rape by gaining some sense of control over rape situations and rehearsing how one might deal with actual rape (Gold & Clegg, 1990; Gold, et al., 1991).
Feminists who lamely try to handwave away rape fantasies as just another form of BDSM consensual sex are wrong. As the studies show, there is no consensual seduction as widely understood in women’s rape fantasies. They are about rape, and nothing but the rape. The only difference is in how violently the rapist penetrates her in her fantasy and in how much of a fight she puts up to stop him. In neither case, though, could the rape fantasy be reasonably termed a consensual seduction.
Ironically, aversive rape fantasies are the ones feminists would be more inclined to believe as true reflections of the female id, because those are the types of rape fantasies that women have to deal with the fear of rape. Too bad for the feminists, though, that, according to the first study linked above, aversive rape fantasies account for only 9% of all rape fantasies, with the great majority being either solely erotic in nature or a mix of erotic and aversive. Seems the ladies really do get off on the feeling of being raped by a strong and willful man.
Nothing in these studies should be a surprise to readers of this blog. It has been noted here, to much consternation and gnashing of the teeth by haters, that women secretly desire to submit to a powerful man — more powerful than they, at any rate — and that this desire sometimes includes a nonconsensual component. Women love the feeling of being overtaken by a man unbendable in his will and unstoppable in his lust.
Some of you might be wondering how valid is a study that only looked at female undergraduates. To that criticism, I say: Would it make a difference? The most sexually valuable women are in the age range of 15-25. Any older than 25 and she is past her prime, already beginning the descent to sexual irrelevancy. (Exception: A fat 21 year old who loses weight and regains a sexy figure at age 30 will look better than her 21 year old self. But this effect only lasts so long.)
When men want to know what arouses women so that they can tailor their game for maximum effectiveness, they observe the behavior patterns of slender women in their primes. Men do not wonder, nor do they care, what cougars, fatties, frumpy hausfraus or grandmothers fantasize about. So for all of you has-beens emphatically denying that you ever have rape fantasies and shouting from the mountaintop that you wouldn’t date jerks…
…who gives a flying fuck?

hell yea this post gave me the motivation i needed. gonna rape some bitches tonight!
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Seems like the only difference is that in the erotic rape fantasy the guy is cute.
A fit guy with game has never “harassed” a girl. He just dumped her.
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Was this ever in doubt? Now it does have to be the man they like, but do your girl a favor and find out if she would like to be abused a little by you in a little role playing.
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Currently banging a girl who is 4 years older than me (i’m 20) who is a major sub (submissive, part of BDSM). She fully accepts her rape fantasies. We act them out. Fucking hottest thing ever (she’s about a 7, but beats the handful of 8s and the 9 I’ve banged since I learnt Game)
Girls, unless they have a sexual deviance and are sexually dominant (doms, sadists etc), will be subs. Subs want to be controlled, led, seduced. So do it.
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A fantasy is not often to be taken literally. A woman who has this in her mind might falsely accused her perpertrator due to regret. If one finds himself in such a situation where he is clearly in her fantasy world, he must excuse himself.
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hell yea this post gave me the motivation i needed. gonna rape some bitches tonight!
lol. i expected to see this, but as a first post? nice
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Aloof?
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One of my girls was seduced by a two month long raping process. She would come over to my apartment to be assaulted by my sexuality. It was a genuine fight and struggle, especially the first few weeks of penetration.
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From your twitter link:
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-scientific-fundamentalist/201103/criminals-look-different-noncriminals
I was able to guess 11 of 16 correctly. I only got one of the rapists right.
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Why weren’t these studies done, say, thirty years ago? Took researchers that long finally to grow a pair? What a pal.
A summer fling I had once (a 9, and 18) once told me that she hoped, when I was older, that I’d have someone to “fill my senses” as much as she did. (Check, many times over.) She hoped that I’d do to them what I did to her that night: approach them from behind, put my hands on her ankles, and then run them firmly up the back of her legs, her waist, her back, and eventually around her, kissing the back of her neck.
She wanted to feel like she was being “ravished,” i.e. under sexually expert male control.
I laughed. The hamster, it grows quickly.
She turned to face me with seriousness beneath her curly hair. “This is what all women want.” She said it defiantly.
One of the top five, that girl.
Probably fat by now.
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“Would it make a difference? The most sexually valuable women are in the age range of 15-25. Any older than 25 and she is past her prime, already beginning the descent to sexual irrelevancy. ”
And most rape victims lie within that range too.
“Seems the ladies really do get off on the feeling of being raped by a strong and willful man.”
and it’s men who get more riled up on hearing about a rape.
So how much of the “life-long trauma” of rape victims is from feminist indoctrination, and how much of feminist indignation at rape is because of men’s instinctual loathing of a man fcking with his females?
Worth reading: about the myth and lie of “only 2% rape cases are false” and the feminist ambition to make women feel indignant for behavior that feminist think is wrong and thus get more cases of rapes.
http://antimisandry.com/facts-figures/truth-behind-legal-dominance-feminisms-two-percent-false-rape-claim-figure-4431.html
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“Some of you might be wondering how valid is a study that only looked at female undergraduates. To that criticism, I say: Would it make a difference?”
I think the area of study will make a difference.
Women’s studies department won’t take it kindly…”time for a rape culture rally, sisters”
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so 90% of them find it erotic, but they won’t hesitate to lock a guy away for 40 years when he gives them what they want? another ugly glimpse of the hamster.
yet another reason I’ll never have kids. with the risk of having a daughter being 50/50, it’s unacceptable. who wants to have a teenage daughter running around banging low-life thugs, fantasizing about being raped, screwing over decent guys, and eventually trapping some sucker beta into paying for her lifestyle? guys must live in a strong frame of denial to be able to handle what their daughters are really thinking and doing.
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namae
“Women’s studies department won’t take it kindly…’time for a rape culture rally, sisters'”
Time to panic.
I wonder what the findings are at religiously affiliated colleges and universities. Anyone have data on that?
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What sick, sick world.
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Bet this study’s gonna make a lot of heads explode 😛
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heavy sigh
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Margaret Atwood has a story in her collection Dancing Girls called “Rape Fantasies.” It sent my high school AP English class full of girls into a tizzy. That story always made me like her, which in turn made most of the girls dislike me.
But rape fantasies don’t actually mean women want to be raped, for the record. There is a big difference between fantasy and reality. A real rape would not be hot at all, whereas a fantasy is filled with all sorts of impossibilities (like the guy is actually attractive, he doesn’t destroy your clothes, he’s gentle except for his unbridled lust, and there’s even some cuddling after) that are hot. I just hope this doesn’t lead your readers to think that women are waiting to be raped. It would be an unfortunate burden and responsibility to carry should your readers do something stupid and then point to this blog as the reason. You’d get a lot of flack for it even if you say that it isn’t your fault they don’t know how to read.
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14% is not “Nearly 2 out of 10”. It’s 1 out of 7.
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Now, who here has the balls to rape a chick you’re certain finds you attractive, and give her the best orgasm of her life?
I had a girlfriend who expressed her rape fantasy to me our first night together (she was a headcase). As we hadn’t had sex yet, I wondered if this was a hint that she wanted me to forcefully fuck her. I erred on the side of caution and waited for consent.
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Male sexual nature and the fantasies of most men is to forcefully fuck so..yeah.
If you realize society is a farce then it shouldn’t surprise you. It’s not necessarily natural, just a more beneficial way to live. Like civilized people.
But it’s still just a farce.
Of course they’re fantasizing about men they want to fuck forcefully fucking them. They aren’t fantasizing about the ugly strange loser down the block who really is most likely to be doing the raping. Or the loser friend with a roofie, if you believe those stats as well.
Really..I’d like to see a written play by play of these fantasies. I don’t think too many of them are flicking their beans to the thought of what actually happens during rape. Do they get wet when they watch “The Accused”? I don’t think so.
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Assume this is true. The problem is that women get an even bigger kick of out of putting a man on trial than they would from the rape. And lots more plaudits from follow wymyn, too. So of what real use is this to men?
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I expect this research really demonstrates that 2/3 of women have rape fantasies . . .
. . . and 1/3 of women are liars.
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Helene
Well said
That’s a no brainer. The answer to that question has been answered millions of times by millions of men. Dominant sex and fantasy role play is an essential tool in any mans sexual tool kit.
Play rape. Play dominance. Use her deep needs legally to enslave her to you.
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now for some thoughts from the twilight zone:
http://pervocracy.blogspot.com/2011/03/rape-culture-hope.html
funnily enough I landed on her blog.
raype culture sistas, no “your body your choice” this time, we have to change men’s attitudes, because they are the evil ones nya nya nya
this logic makes me
head bang wall
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rape culture explained, rather poetically:
“So of what real use is this to men?”
to not hang a fellow man on the nearest tree when a female cries rape.
and goes a long way to prevent oneitis from happening.
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How anyone can be aware of this kind of thing and still believe in god is absolutely beyond me.
[Editor: Or believe 9/10s of the crap that regularly gets spewed by the humanities departments of academia and the media.]
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Chateau, I’d be interested to hear how you would respond to the standard feminist critique of this kind of study: that what the study actually measured is simply the degree to which women have been exposed to our culture.
In other words, how do you know that what you’re seeing is, “the animal nature of women’s sexuality and their deepest desire to submit to a more powerful lover” and not the animal nature of our culture – a reflection of what feminists call rape culture.
It’s easy (and therefore lazy) to simply dismiss this with a wave of the hand and a laugh – ha ha, those stoopid feminazis. I would much rather have a sound logical argument than a good laugh.
So, if you have one, what is an intelligent answer to this question?
Incidentally, if anyone wants to see some real feminists getting really worked up over this, here’s a great read.
http://shakespearessister.blogspot.com/2009/10/rape-culture-101.html
After reading that, and other posts on that site, I feel terribly sad for them. Because they have an unhealthy obsession – pathological you might say. They live in a demon haunted world.
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Prediction: the comment thread to this post will top the one-thousand mark.
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“14% or in other words 2 out of 10.” Nice. Nice
[Editor: How many dorks did it rub the wrong way? That is the measure of success.]
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Hide your kids, pound your wife. Hard. From behind.
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Begby “so 90% of them find it erotic, but they won’t hesitate to lock a guy away for 40 years when he gives them what they want? ”
What they want? Really dude?
I’m curious to know if the average poster here is really this mind-numbingly stupid.
Pay attention moron – a rape fantasy is like a danger fantasy. Ever go skydiving or bungie jumping or anything like that? Yeah, it’s a danger fantasy. Most people have these. It does not mean that you secretly desire to be thrown out of an airplane or off a bridge without a parachute.
Again, you fucking moron. Women have rape fantasies but they don’t actually want to be raped by a random stranger.
[Editor: How many men fantasize about killing foes? Probably more than a few. Would they actually want to do that? Probably not UNDER MOST TYPICAL CIRCUMSTANCES, but if the consequences were mitigated — i.e. they were assured that no jail time would result — I bet a lot of those men would pull the trigger or swing the machete.
The point is, fantasy isn’t completely severed from reality. From a previous Chateau post:
“If fantasy (or as I like to call it, “hyperreality”) didn’t reflect reality then we would hear and read of fantasies by women featuring beta males, short dweebs, nerdos, fatsos, and charmless stutterers in the role of desired man. But we don’t. Women’s fantasies, like men’s fantasies, provide a window into a wished-for reality where all options are available, all choice catered to, all desires quenched. Rape fantasy, despite the protestations to the contrary of the “fantasy is different than reality” crowd, is as much a reflection of real female desire as any other form of sexual fantasy.”]
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@eric
Dear god that site is fucked up
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[Editor: How many men fantasize about killing foes? Probably more than a few. Would they actually want to do that? Probably not UNDER MOST TYPICAL CIRCUMSTANCES, but if the consequences were mitigated — i.e. they were assured that no jail time would result — I bet a lot of those men would pull the trigger or swing the machete.
The point is, fantasy isn’t completely severed from reality. From a previous Chateau post:
“If fantasy (or as I like to call it, “hyperreality”) didn’t reflect reality then we would hear and read of fantasies by women featuring beta males, short dweebs, nerdos, fatsos, and charmless stutterers in the role of desired man. But we don’t. Women’s fantasies, like men’s fantasies, provide a window into a wished-for reality where all options are available, all choice catered to, all desires quenched. Rape fantasy, despite the protestations to the contrary of the “fantasy is different than reality” crowd, is as much a reflection of real female desire as any other form of sexual fantasy.”]
Translation: fantasy = desire. Case closed.
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Editor: “fantasy isn’t completely severed from reality”
That’s in line with what I said. Danger fantasy (skydiving) is about living that danger. That’s the connection with reality.
What I called Begby a moron for is assuming that because I enjoy skydiving, I must “really want” (that was his word choice) to be pushed out of an airplane without a parachute.
[Editor: Except in your fantasy scenario the end result is guaranteed death. In most rape fantasies the end result is an orgasm (or at least a few pleasant tingles.)]
Women fantasize about rape. Let me tell you from experience, women *love* to play out their fantasies. But they are always wearing that parachute. To think, as Begby suggested, that women really want to be raped, is to be monumentally stupid.
[The evidence suggests that women harbor a secret desire to be raped under the right conditions. What those conditions are will vary from woman to woman, but the fundamental act of rape itself — nonconsensual and forceful — appears to be a turn-on for the majority of women. I know, it’s hard to believe, but there it is.]
Anyway, as you pointed out in your post, women don’t want to be raped by just anyone. They want to be “raped” by an alpha male and they want to want it, they want their “no” to be a “token no” – this is the fundamental dichotomy of female sexuality.
[That’s not exactly true. As the bolded part in the quoted section of the study shows, the women’s nonconsensuality in their rape fantasies was not insincere. In other words, in their fantasies they were really refusing the man sex. It was not a token no. That was the basis for the fantasy. The pleasure, then, clearly comes from being overwhelmed by a man who pushes his way past her nonconsensuality.]
They want to be highly selective – they actually want to reject *every* male. But they still want the alpha to fuck them.
[Of course, but this is one facet of female sexuality. Rape fantasies provide a shocking look into the deepest corners of women’s brains and want they truly desire when it’s just them and their secret thoughts. How do the two intersect? Well, for one, perhaps a lot more betas would do better with women if they were more assertive about physically pushing for sex.]
That’s the kind of situation they fantasize about. They do not want a homeless crack addict (or Begby) to drag them into an alley and give them AIDS – and any man who thinks that is too stupid to ever learn game so he might as well leave this website.
[A percentage of women have orgasms from rape. Doctors specializing in this can tell. What is going on there?
Also, note that the conscious and the subconscious are often at odds. Men and women both act to restrain their ids with socially approved, and ego-assuaging, concealments. But what happens when no one is there to judge or to punish? Horrors rise from the abyss…]
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Eric,
You may find this article interesting:
http://members.iinet.net.au/~tramont/protruth/secrets.html
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The lesson here is, if she finds you attractive and you use force, it’s not felony rape. If you’re a dumpy little beta creep that she has no attraction to, then it is felony rape. The moment it is felony rape, then itz up to a competent lawyer as to how much time you get.
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@ eric (or is that Erica??)
“give them what they want” was a casual figure of speech, not to be taken literally. that you got so frothy about it tells me there are some very disturbing things going on in your psyche that you are projecting onto me.
this post is eerily timely because just two days ago, one of my girlfriends told me she wanted me to act out this fantasy with her, by “breaking in” to her house. so yes, for some, it is literally what they want. i guess you haven’t been with many women or had much sex if you don’t know that.
the irony of the female mind though is that even in a situation where they are fantasizing about having no control, they still want to be controlling on the specifics of how it plays out. life isn’t that neat and tidy.
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Douche,
“How anyone can be aware of this kind of thing and still believe in god is absolutely beyond me.”
Original sin, holmes.
Wasn’t God lusting for that strange schlong.
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Obligatory:
http://www.violentacres.com/archives/51/how-feminism-ruined-my-sex-life/
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This is from a text from 1977
http://libcom.org/library/poverty-feminism
The Story of 0 was openly presented by its author as the dream of an emancipated woman. The success it met with and the disturbance it caused are far more an expression of this modem state of affairs where passion must be released and character armour shattered, than of an innate archaic need to suffer and submit along with the complimentary desire to dominate and torture, whether in dreams or at the cinema.
Susan Brownmiller, in her book Against Our Will, doubts that it was a woman who wrote The Story of 0 and is annoyed with the complacency of certain authors, even female ones like Anaïs Nin in her diary. Rape is carried out “against our will”, and women should be cleansed of all suspicion. All this female masochism, these aspirations for rape, are just inventions.
Yet masochistic fantasies and fantasies of rape still flourish, although with embarrassment, within the bosom of the feminist movement.
The feminist magazine ‘Emma” dedicated one of its issues to the question “Our masochistic sexual fantasies”: “This documentation on masochism and sexual fantasy has taken up our editorial group for weeks. The greatest surprise for us was the great number of women who have such fantasies. As soon as we began to talk about it, we discovered that some of the women among us were also concerned. They only dared outline their fantasies in a very hesitant way. Each was afraid of being judged by someone who did not have any”. (“Emma”, September 9, 1977).
The editorial group quote studies carried out in the United States, which demonstrate the frequency of masochistic fantasies: “… the psychologist Barbara Hariton, who gained promotion on the strength of it… found that 65 per cent of the women questioned by her had “erotic fantasies” during sexual intercourse with their partners (men or women). Thoughts of another man (or woman) were most prevalent, then visions of rape, and in third place fantasies about “perversions”. Very frequently women also imagined sexual intercourse with more than one man at the same time or voyeuristic situations where they were observed or were watching others”.
The American journalist Nancy Friday analysed a few thousand women’s letters. She found that the majority of women’s sexual fantasies “are of a masochistic nature”.
Robin Morgan, who wrote a book on the subject, says that during a meeting on sexuality attended by a group of 80 feminists, one of the participants admitted: “… it’s strange… we are feminists, but… I sometimes have sexual fantasies which in some ways are masochistic, and… I wonder if anyone here has already had the same sort of experience. Perhaps they could raise a hand”. She fled from the room. A deathly silence followed. Then, very slowly, each woman, one after the other, raised her hand.
Robin Morgan, who herself has such fantasies, tries to change the nature of them, to dream herself the dominator, to imagine herself the sultan, professor, rapist, but that only works if she thinks of people of her own sex. Hence the hypothesis that: “… I could raise myself above them, but never above a man”. But: “That would be an unworthy understanding of myself […]. I forced myself not to have any more fantasies, upon which my capacity to have orgasms decreased, which all things considered was even more depressing. I capitulated when I became afraid of becoming frigid, and felt like an alcoholic who goes back to the bottle”. (Quoted in “Emma”).
All this is extremely disconcerting. How can these fantasies, which are sometimes the only way to reach orgasm, be condemned without appreciating that “they are to be found in strong opposition to the dignity for which women are struggling today”? (“Emma”) In despair Robin Morgan explains that ever since men have reversed matriarchy through trickery, all this has had time to be registered in her cells. “Emma” reaches the following conclusions:
1) Our fantasies are the product of social conditions. They reflect the submission of woman in a male dominated society.
Fantasies say nothing about what is really desired. The contrary can be the case. When a woman finds pleasure in imagining herself being raped that in no way means she really desires to be raped.
It is more a case for diminishing women’s responsibility than explanation. The fantasies are only reflections. Women are imagined to be so malleable, poor dears! And they even go along with it. Fantasy is obviously linked to social reality, but is an active means of compensation.
A woman who dreams of being raped has every chance of being disappointed, disillusioned, by real rape, firstly because one is rarely raped by the man of one’s dreams, even if he is an anonymous figure. Nevertheless, it is not possible to dissociate and oppose fantasy and real desire in such a way. And what is expressed in fantasy will also certainly have an echo in actual behaviour.
In order for woman to be exonerated, she is lent a monstrous alienation and is presented as a passive receptacle of images. An absolute dissociation between dream and real behaviour is pictured. In misery one sees only misery and opposes it with a struggle for dignity. If one places oneself on the terrain of dignity, it must be very difficult not to despise those who in private find pleasure in this way, and in public demonstrate a saintly fury against rapists.
These phantasms are a heritage of the millenarian oppression of women. Is there not, rather, a link between this feminism and these fantasies? Are the feminists not also dead against rapists because they dream of rape and sadism? Everything is thrown in together in a dissociated way, and opposing elements prop each other up, even if one is the overthrow of the other.
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It does lend an interesting twist to the take back the night marchers. The majority of them are not merely concerned with rape, they are sexually fantasizing about getting raped.
Makes you wonder if their marches are so much about political power as fear of their own inner natures. Project outwards onto men what you can not accept as your inner female desire.
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Speaking of rape, how about male rape?
I think he should start a thread on how to spot the bastard child in a family.
I know a family wherein two of the children are angels. The third, youngest, is a total screwup, learning problems, work problems, attitude problems, girls love him but he needs a girlfriend with a car. It’s complicated.
His parents got divorced during his pregnancy, so, it is pretty much an open and shut case. Marriage was one of $$ for the wife to begin with. (She had played around when young but decided to settle down with a doctor.)
It would be educational to the betas to look at their friends and figure out who the bastards are.
Give you some perspective.
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i can point you to the following books, just read the reviews/comments, chicks crave this and the emotional ups and downs
http://www.amazon.com/Rape-Soul-Dawn-Thompson/dp/0981557325/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1301363473&sr=1-2
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True though the research probably is, there’s one point of interest:, Are these more common than they used to be? Has the ubiquity of dodgy historical bodice-rippers encouraged such odd desires, or is it the flip side of feminism that its adherents have such daydreams? Or have women always craved a barbarian invasion.
[Editor: Good question. Likely women have always craved it. But is the growing emasculation of Western men pushing modern women, and particularly feminists, further into these sorts of depraved submission fantasies? I think the answer is yes.]
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Red,
“Or have women always craved a barbarian invasion”
Smart money’s on always.
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To be ravaged my boyfriend while tied to the bed in total submission=orgasmic.
To have my door busted in and be beaten, raped and possibly contract a STD=horrific.
You need to clarify this!
Women who have these fantasies get to choose the men, not vice versa.
This is not counting the “I regret” rapes on college campuses.
There are thousands of young men who are reading this, who might make a bad choice if you don’t clarify.
Women do the choosing. Be chosen, then be dominant. Anything else will land you in jail.
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“..do you think I’m just going to rape you on the off chance that hopefully you’re into that shit?…”
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Consider the time fo the hunting bands. A woman comes upon a man from another band. She can try to turn him away, but if he insists-does she do better to give in?
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The American journalist Nancy Friday analysed a few thousand women’s letters. She found that the majority of women’s sexual fantasies “are of a masochistic nature”.
I’ve read “What Women Want”…not only do they confess to rape fantasies, they even indulge in a little bestiality fantasy…
…think about that one, especially if your girl owns an Alsatian or other big dog…
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“he most sexually valuable women are in the age range of 15-25.”
I would restrict the ages a little more perhaps down to 15-22. If we are talking about the forbidden fruit appeal, I would say 14-19.
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“To be ravaged my boyfriend while tied to the bed in total submission=orgasmic.
To have my door busted in and be beaten, raped and possibly contract a STD=horrific.”
Well the feminists say you don’t have much cause for worry, because most rapes are done by someone the woman already knows. tada!!
“Women do the choosing. Be chosen, then be dominant. Anything else will land you in jail.”
lol
nice guy sez:
waited for woman to make up her mind,
a ballsy midget fucked her from behind.
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cheshirecat
“…think about that one, especially if your girl owns an Alsatian or other big dog…”
and peanut butter jar in her bedroom…
http://www.dreamindemon.com/2009/03/19/michelle-owen-likes-it-rrrruff/
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When you think about it, why should a woman have to have a dog any way?
The above case doesn’t have to be one-off thing, it’s most likely due to female technological ineptness that they don’t end up like her.
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Ed wrote: “Age is not the prerequisite for pedophilia. A child-like body is. ”
Uh, oh. What if I like 30 and even 40 YOs with child-like bodies?
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Amestris, he is not advocating rape. Rather, rape fantasies illustrate the submissive and masochistic essence of female sexuality.
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The label for sex with 15 year olds shouldn’t be the same as that for 5 year olds.
The age of the consent in the UK is 16 years old. That’s reasonable.
Although strangely enough, they can only consent to marry without parental approval after turning 18. Sign of the times.
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Thank you to all the female commentators here who ignored the article to deliver us the usual feminists lines. I’m sure everyone here is so glad to be educated.
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It’s odd to me that these fantasies are considered so perverse by the male population. Perhaps this is more so in a sex-positive anti-male dominance propaganda culture, where enthusiastic consent/assertive sexuality is promoted as a norm.
But the fantasies should be more prevalent in religiously chaste by choice or traditional women; they’re the mental anti-slut-defense and rationalisation hamster i.e. it’s okay to indulge your sexuality with that bad boy/alpha if you didn’t consent to it. You have no moral responsibility for it. The rape-y historical romance novels were much more prevalent decades ago; they certainly nowhere near dominate the market these days.
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Gaberiella
What are guys raping girls with; babies?
And I strongly suggest you are an idiot. A man leads. That’s the whole fucking point, now, isn’t it? “Excuse me miss, may I play rape you?” is not how it works. It’s not rocket science to lead a girl into rape play. And you don’t do it by asking permission.
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I read somewhere that men are aroused by sexually attractive women, but women are arousing men.
The appeal of the rape fantasy isn’t the lack of consent. (because in the fantasy she really wants it) It’s the fact that the guy is so turned on he wont take no for an answer.
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shit. I meant “women are aroused by arousing men”
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“And I strongly suggest you are an idiot. A man leads. That’s the whole fucking point, now, isn’t it? “Excuse me miss, may I play rape you?” is not how it works. It’s not rocket science to lead a girl into rape play. And you don’t do it by asking permission.”
Ugh – that sounds completely horrible. If your woman is sexually submissive a man needs to know how to get her off.
I mean that unless a man wants to go to jail he’d better know what time it is. And you’re not the type I was talking about as you seem to (1) have a clue and (2) know what to do in bed.
Some men posting here sound like they can’t tell the difference between actual rape — which is painful and in some cases reconstructive surgery is necessary. And play “rape,” which is not painful to the body or to your mental state. (Or its only painful in a good way if you know what I mean — as in she’s going to have an orgasm way.)
But if he’s not absolutely fucking clear on what she wants, he’d get clear before he adds this to his sexual moves. This is more of an issue for people who don’t know each other very well. People who have some sort of a relationship know each other well enough that it’s not an issue.
In any case, a good lover is by definition not clueless about what his partner wants.
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“The appeal of the rape fantasy isn’t the lack of consent. (because in the fantasy she really wants it) It’s the fact that the guy is so turned on he wont take no for an answer.”
yes – you nailed it. And clearly you know how to nail it. 🙂
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J_D
You mean, like, by being aloof?
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How did these rape fantasies evolve in the first place? How did they become so common once evolved?
What is the evolutionary advantage of rape fantasies? How do they increase fitness?
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Meant to only post the last two questions there. The first two are covered in the last two.
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Prole girls would have higher percentages in the same age group.
Trust me on this one.
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It’s so taboo it may take 100 years before anyone dares ask the question, but I wonder what percentage of girls have daddy fucking fantasies?
Because more than 80% of the girls I’ve dated since taking on a Daddy persona rock the Daddy fucking role play. Rock and role.
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I wonder if any men ever fantasize about getting raped by the divorce courts?
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“Be chosen, then be dominant.”
She says.
Then acts the reverse.
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Dominique Francon would agree.
Thor
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While reading this blog, I can’t help but realize how good gay guys have it.
-xsplat
That is a very interesting insight.
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Bhetti gets it: “But the fantasies should be more prevalent in religiously chaste by choice or traditional women; they’re the mental anti-slut-defense and rationalisation hamster i.e. it’s okay to indulge your sexuality with that bad boy/alpha if you didn’t consent to it. You have no moral responsibility for it. The rape-y historical romance novels were much more prevalent decades ago; they certainly nowhere near dominate the market these days.”
True story: When I was young and naive (beta with no game…), I was “dating” an older woman (early 30s). This was back in the 80s – when the first big round of date-rape hysteria came through, hot on the heels of Luke’n’Laura. She was also dating *the* alpha bad-boy of our common social group. At one point, we were messing around, and I straightforwardly said I wanted to fuck her, implying right then and there, though not using the f-word. She said something to the effect of I’d have to rape her for that to happen. Unwise in the ways of game, I backed *way* off, and while we remained friendly, we stopped “dating”. A little while later, I realized that she *wanted* me to force her, and that she wanted that so that she wouldn’t have to take responsibility for cheating on her bad boy to have sex with someone else she was interested in.
This fucked me up for years.
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Who does a woman fantasize about fucking? The meek, puling beta, or the dominant Genghis Khan alpha warlord? Obviously, she wants to fuck Genghis Khan; warlord babies beat beta babies any day of the week. And how does Genghis Khan initiate sex? You know he doesn’t show up with flowers. Rape fantasies could simply be the intuitive corollary to the feminine desire for a powerful mate.
Also, pure speculation, but what if there is a “rapist gene?” Wouldn’t any baby born with that gene be more likely to procreate and continue the line? If so, it’s the mother’s genetic interest, if not her personal interest, to be raped and to carry the resultant baby to term. In that case, it’s in the mother’s genetic interest to get properly lubed up while being raped and to have orgasms to move the sperm along, too.
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[Of course, but this is one facet of female sexuality. Rape fantasies provide a shocking look into the deepest corners of women’s brains and want they truly desire when it’s just them and their secret thoughts. How do the two intersect? Well, for one, perhaps a lot more betas would do better with women if they were more assertive about physically pushing for sex.]
—
Yup, this is what I and a few other posters (Jerry, Chi-town) were arguing a few threads back — that most beta boys are petrified to show any display of assertive manliness to the average woman — thinking (like a retarded asperger nerd) that even a demonstration of male sexual desire (oh, such as edgy flirting, or heaven forbid, Kino) is a “crime” in-and-of itself.
This is certainly the ‘Party Line’ that a lot of these over-educated, status-whoring beta college dweebs hear on a daily basis from their fem-tard, Marxist professors … i.e. – that any physical contact a man has with a woman, unless each and every step of the escalation is met with verbal ‘permission’ by the woman, is “rape”. (geesh, I suppose more women with rape fantasies should be signing up for college then, since, according to their professors, pretty much all male sexual behavior is ‘criminal’.)
*Again double shame on any beta dork for believing and, worse yet, internalizing this defeatist, emasculating Bolshevik lie, a Satanic lie of epically dehumanizing proportions, crafted with the ultimate express purpose of preventing large numbers of (genuinely) good and intelligent men from being husbands and fathers — hence reproducing themselves — which is what sex is ultimately all about.
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…
Makes you wonder if provocative dress means a woman truly is “asking for it”.
Asking for genuine non-consensual rape.
Anthony
At 21 I had a brief fling with a little blonde famous for her laughably huge breasts. I was the romantic type, but was getting frustrated that my default style didn’t seem to be doing the job. That and she kept asking me to pinch her nipples HARDER, and it was beginning to tire my fingers, so I asked her, “Do you want me to fuck you sweet or with anger?”.
The answer was with anger.
It took me a good week for my nerves to get over that answer. Freaked me out.
It took me years to get it; to understand and then internalize the dynamic she was asking for. Until finally I can initiate girls into their darker natures.
I was such a naive foolish dweeb. Strangely though there was some demand for my cock at the time – probably because I was on work holiday from living in a Buddhist monastery. That brought me a lot of interest.
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You will not understand the true nature of women, and the way the world works, until you realize tha ALL females are hoes, including your mother, your sister, your wife, and your daughter. No exceptions.
Once you come to this realization, and accept it, you will be a wise man.
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LBK
Devilish whores, to be more precise.
Or to put it kinder, fundamentally self interested and socially adept.
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@Bhetti, yes, don’t get the butthurt… You guys never had to chase a chick (literally like through a field)? They all get off on it.. Or play fight, tickle fight, was doing it with ex after years in the relationship… and yes my aspie side tells me it’s freaking retarded, but that’s just how it is. There’s a lot of “santa doesn’t exist” moments in the journey of learning game, but “rape fantasy” ain’t one. And yes, some are too fucked up, trying to provoke you into quite heavy stuff… but that’s when you next and run, who needs that shit. Que the Louis CK video above. Let it go, fact that some useless ho doesn’t think you’re the alpha-est top dog doesn’t mean shit.
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When you think about it, why should a woman have to have a dog any way?
Because a cat’s tongue is too rough?
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It’s so taboo it may take 100 years before anyone dares ask the question, but I wonder what percentage of girls have daddy fucking fantasies?
Of the women I’ve dated, quite a number have had them…especially if they are “daddy’s girl”.
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Women are stupid.
Throw rapes at them.
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At my workplace, a cute girl seems to be developing a crush on me, and this post got me to wonder; Has she ever fantasised about me throwing all professionalism out the window and taken her against a wall there and then?
Not really something I want to think about, it’s hard enough trying to keep my beta-ness under wraps everytime she’s around…
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Bhetti,
I also find it funny that these fantasies are considered perverse since they are so common. Good point about this probably being a more prevalent fantasy in traditional cultures. I’m guessing men are more offended by rape than women in general.
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I sometimes read about women who have been raped having trouble enjoying sex after that experience. I wonder if it is because it can never live up to the intensity of that experience.
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My fantasy is that the only time a woman opens her mouth is to insert my cock, and once she swallows, get up, take a shower and make me a sandwich.
Let’s focus on fulfilling my fantasy first, then we can talk about her fantasy.
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http://www.yourtango.com/experts/lucia/12-reasons-women-can-t-stand-nice-guys
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Hire the hooker, pay the hooker, have the hooker leave.
Safer than a “rape fantasy” gone wrong and spending 10 years having your bung hole stretched by “Cleatus”.
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15 year olds? do 15 year olds know how to wash their vaginas properly?
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genghis khan would have such a field day.
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@Bhetti
“But the fantasies should be more prevalent in religiously chaste by choice or traditional women; they’re the mental anti-slut-defense and rationalisation hamster i.e. it’s okay to indulge your sexuality with that bad boy/alpha if you didn’t consent to it. ”
I have also made this observation. Rape-lite, as I shall call it, serves so many purposes it should be anticipated to be quite prevalent. Not only does it create a barrier that only worthy men can pass, but her resistance maintains the female credentials of purity. Its a magnificent slut defense. I would also believe that, consistent with male rape fantasy, her “purity” will also be more of a turn on since he has her to himself.
It also happens to be why some men are doing time right now. When she thinks better of it, sometimes she comes to believe her reputation is worth more than the patsy. She can demonstrate she is desired, and that she is just not that kind of girl.
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Awesome study you cited. More awesome research coming out of The University of North Texas…my alma mater.
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@Lara
I sometimes read about women who have been raped having trouble enjoying sex after that experience. I wonder if it is because it can never live up to the intensity of that experience.
That is very interesting and probably true in many cases.
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Bhetti, lets talk about what happens to women who get raped from the part of the world your parents and grandparents are from.
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Take Back The Night. Anti-rape fugly freak show, who nobody would ever rape anyhow. The only people who should take back the night are men. As in Thomas Edison. Take back the light. The electric light. The incandescent light. The arc light. Return these man hating bitches back to the nights of eternal darkness, that the men they hate so much freed them from. Crazy, evil, ungrateful witches.
And what do you do with witches?
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“I sometimes read about women who have been raped having trouble enjoying sex after that experience. I wonder if it is because it can never live up to the intensity of that experience.”
I’m convinced your IQ doesn’t exceed 104.
I think it has something to do with the negative association with sex, including the physical and mental trauma. Similar to if you were in a car accident, and then really disliked or feared driving for a year after the incident. It’s not because every resulting car trip after the accident is lame compared to the exciting, near death experience of the car accident. You nearly died, and you’re excessively concerned you might die the next time you get in a car. A legitimate rape with the possibility of death just doesn’t sound appealing. Play rape with someone I’ve already slept with dozens of times before, fine. But the most excitement I can handle in real life would be to be on a sinking ship, only because I have enough confidence in my ability to swim. A tsunami- nah, I’m afraid I’d never be able to grab onto to the tall tree before being swept out.
99.999999% of the people who have the capacity to commit (or do commit) rape are not people you’d likely consent to sleeping with on a normal day. They’re probably not even people you’d be comfortable shaking hands with. Fortunately, despite my FILs feeble paranoid attempts to have me consider nearly every male a rapist (like I shouldn’t even have home improvement workers or the cable guy come when I’m alone in the day), the percentage of males who are rapists is a small minority. And fortunately for me the physical profile of a typical rapist isn’t something that I fear not being able to fend off.
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Robin Baker, in one of his books, “Sperm Wars”, claims a woman is 3 times more likely to get pregnant from rape than from sex with a regular partner.
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“What is the evolutionary advantage of rape fantasies? How do they increase fitness?”
Just look at the most genetically succesful girl in history: Genghis Kahn’s mother. Who was kidnapped and forced to marry her kidnapper.
Anyway, I think the problem is with our language. When we say that a girl does or doesn’t want to be raped, it ignores the fact that there are different parts of her brain. Part of her brain wants it and part of her brain does not.
The challenge with being a man is to deal with the conflicting impulses of the female mind. For example by being a perfect gentleman but still slapping your girlfriend’s ass now and then.
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Genghis Kahn inspires me. I too seek to have more than 2000 offspring. Future geneticists will marvel at my virility: Just who was that redhead in the Americas who had so many kids?
The Procreator
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I did an interview with a woman who was raped as an undergrad, back in the ’70s.
Part One
Part Two
Not sexy (though she admits she had an orgasm during the rape), but interesting nonetheless.
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I pointed out this study to some feminists, and they all shrieked the same thing: “Fantasy is different from reality!!”.
That’s their story, and they’re sticking to it.
[Editor: If fantasy is different from reality…
then why don’t women ever have fantasies about soft, sensitive lovemaking with a beta herb shuffling papers in his cubicle?
Game, set, match.]
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Anyone able to find full text of the original study? Pubmed has a ref here: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19085605 but the two links to the full text are behind a paywall. Don’t really want to drop $34 for the full medical journal…
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and i take it back: http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2372/is_1_46/ai_n32406391/?tag=content;col1
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Pkaplan
Must be an uncomfortable experience to have such cognitive dissonance hard-wired into your brain. Half of you wants to have your will and personal choices violated, while the other wants to grow personal and social power over others. Girls don’t lie when they explain that rape is a horror to be avoided and prosecuted, and yet they provoke rape with “asking for it” dress and putting themselves in compromising situations, and they have erotic rape fantasies. It’s like wanting to be robbed, and not wanting to be robbed at the same time. How on earth can they explain their motivations to others, let alone to themselves?
The answer with how to deal with it is happily straightforward. Rape play after seduction.
Or, if you are an expert, you can be sexually aggressive on the first date – I have several times and the girls always want to stay with me afterwards. One girl lived with me for 2.5 years when on the first date I was pulling her pants off and she was screaming loud enough for the hole rooming house to hear “NO! NO! NO! Stop! NOOOO!”
A girl is a bifurcated creature. You must speak to her hindbrain, while getting her forebrain to shut up and go away.
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Bhetti
They’re not considered perverse by me; or only in a good way. Actually I can’t think of any girlfriend I’ve had who hasn’t admitted to rape fantasies.
I think it’s mostly betas and omegas still mired in as you say “anti-male dominance propaganda culture” who considered it perverse; or refuse to believe it. Of course few girls will have rape fantasies involving guys like that. It seems to me any guy who’s really into strongly male dominant emotional seduction and sex has gotta realize similar sexual dynamics are at play.
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Bhetti–
Yeah.
And actually from my talking about this with lots of different girls I was intimate with, I think there’s usually a similar character to the rape fantasies of not so religious or traditional girls. That is the rape is by a guy they know who they’re attracted to but aren’t supposed to have sex with for one social reason or another. E.g. she’s married; the guy is from the “wrong side of the tracks” or of notably lower social class but has plenty of status and small group leadership ability among his own kind; he’s from an enemy group or a different race or ethnicity when and where that’s taboo or strongly frowned on; he’s her boss and that’s taboo; and so on.
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Amestris–
That’s the nub of it.
However the art of game is the art of maneuvering her to choose you. And part of it is acting dominant with her in a playful, push pull way that also makes her chase, before being chosen, after she’s hooked into being interested in bantering with you. So no you don’t wait for her to say “yes please do me” to start being dominant. Yeah sometimes this can lead to rape-y seductions. There’s a line though, and the good side of that is pulling back and eliciting more comfort and a return to chasing by her while she’s still saying no, resisting your removing her panties, or pushing you away.
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[Editor: If fantasy is different from reality…
then why don’t women ever have fantasies about soft, sensitive lovemaking with a beta herb shuffling papers in his cubicle?
Game, set, match.]
Um, hi?
I’m Ozymandias! I read your blog sometimes, mostly because it is a fascinatingly alien mindset. I am nineteen years old and very skinny, if androgynous, and I have been told I am attractive. Therefore, I am not a cougar or a frumpy hausfrau or a fatty or the rest of it.*
And I have fantasized about soft, sensitive lovemaking with beta herbs! In fact, not only have I fantasized about soft, sensitive lovemaking with beta herbs, but I have fantasized about tying beta herbs up and having my way with them, beta herbs pulling my hair and choking me, beta herbs kneeling before me begging and getting slapped, being pounded hard by beta herbs, getting eaten out for hours by beta herbs. There is a lot of fantasizing I do about the beta herbs, is my point.
In fact, I had a very nice orgasm just half an hour ago imagining giving a long, slow blowjob to a chronically celibate fanfic-writing Trekkie friend of mine, who is really anyone’s definition of beta herb, his fondness for Ecstasy and fire aside.
It is clearly inaccurate to say “no women” fantasize about beta herbs.
Although admittedly I fuck beta herbs too? And I’d totally blow my Trekkie friend if I wasn’t monogamous at the moment. So that whole “difference between fantasy and reality” business doesn’t apply to me.
*Although I find your insistence that no man wants to fuck these women… slightly contrary?… to my experience.
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@Doug1
The one who found the studyOne who found the study…
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The emotinal charge that rape fantasies inspire for females has a lot to do, imho, with the fact that their deep hind-brain is not primarily concerned with how a guy treats her or will treat he in the future as it scans him for signs of fuckableness. The deep hind brain is the same as the 99 % of her fore-mothers in the animal jkingdom who never give “how he will treat me in the future” a seconds consideration because that is irrelevant when they will not be needed for anything after the fucking stops.
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@larronzo
“Robin Baker, in one of his books, “Sperm Wars”,
claims a woman is 3 times more likely to get
pregnant from rape than from sex with a regular partner.”
Should be mandatory reading!
@sabril
“Just look at the most genetically succesful girl in history:
Genghis Kahn’s mother. Who was kidnapped and forced to marry her kidnapper.”
Yup.
“Anyway, I think the problem is with our language. When we say
that a girl does or doesn’t want to be raped, it ignores the fact
that there are different parts of her brain. Part of her brain wants
it and part of her brain does not.”
Well, therein lies a problem. Our whole culture and legal
system is based on the integrity of each individual,
i.e. it specifically rejects or ignores theories of
ambivalence. Changing this would result in chaos.
(OK, maybe we already have chaos?)
“[Editor: If fantasy is different from reality…
then why don’t women ever have fantasies about soft,
sensitive lovemaking with a beta herb shuffling papers
in his cubicle? Game, set, match.]”
Not so fast. If women have fantasies about soft lovemaking, it would NOT grab many headlines. Maybe they DO have these types of fantasies?
Thor
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“And I have fantasized about soft, sensitive lovemaking with beta herbs! In fact, not only have I fantasized about soft, sensitive lovemaking with beta herbs, but I have fantasized about tying beta herbs up and having my way with them, beta herbs pulling my hair and choking me, beta herbs kneeling before me begging and getting slapped, being pounded hard by beta herbs, getting eaten out for hours by beta herbs. There is a lot of fantasizing I do about the beta herbs, is my point.”
My god, in the history of the internet I don’t think there ever been such a self-defeating paragraph as this. It’s so good I’m almost tempted to assume it’s a troll.
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Let me sum up this post anc comment thread:
More Women Have “Rape” Fantasies Than Previously Thought.
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Drunken Native
If the idea of being raped were such a complete horror to the modern female, she would not spend ANY bean-time mentally fondling the subject. As it is, the images and energies that are sparked off by the prolonged contemplation of being force-fully penetrated by an assertive male appears to be reliable inspiration leading to wet panties and gina tingles for these same modern females.
Go on believing that women eagerly invest lots of their own fantasy-time into images that turn them off sexually and flood their brains with “aversive” emotions. If that keeps your world right side up.
Or you could look for reasons why they crave the pleasures such fantasies provide them with – and then feel the need to prevaricate afterwards.
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I honestly don’t know what the big deal is about. Yes we fantasize about rape. Who cares and what difference does it make? You complain about what attention whores we women are and yet you give us all the attention. I find it interesting iz all. Missed you guys.
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Go watch “Body Heat”, when he throws the chair through the window and nails Kathleen Turner.
Rape fantasy on film. That is what they want.
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@Anthony
“A little while later, I realized that she *wanted* me to force her, and that she wanted that so that she wouldn’t have to take responsibility for cheating on her bad boy to have sex with someone else she was interested in.”
And afterwords she would have had to “confess” about the event, after which it would have been time to play, “let’s you and him fight”.
You dodged a bullet son.
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@cheshirecat
When you think about it, why should a woman have to have a dog any way?
Because a cat’s tongue is too rough?”
Cat’s are too smart to have sex with people, dogs think they’re trading up.
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aeofe
You miss some of us and we pay attention to some of you.
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interesting thoughts as always
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Old guy – maybe, though I don’t think she was his one and only, not for any longer than a weekend or so. Likely as not, he’d have come to me, said “good for you”, and bought me a beer, then gone off after someone hotter.
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bfuller– Why do you think I’m self-defeating? I’m honestly curious. I get in relationships with kind, intelligent men who share my interests and treat me well, and whom I am very attracted to. It seems like a win/win situation from over here.
[Editor: Because you contradicted yourself within the span of two sentences. A beta provider chump who “ties you up and has his way with you” is not a beta provider chump. He’s a dominant, rape-y kind of guy.]
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It is NOT a sick world. I’ve done lots of research on this topic. Please listen.
First, there are consequences to intercourse, especially for women. So women have evolved to act as gatekeepers. If someone breaks that gate it can ignite natural arousal, but then she comes back to reality.
Second, because society would be tossed into savage turmoil without constraints, decent men have developed rules for winning a mate. The opposite of rape for a man is seduction. If a man can try to force a woman into submission and have his way, a woman can try to submit to a man, and get him.
This is why women rage against the woman who takes her man away by flaunting and flirting – – and why men rage against a man who dominates his girl. It’s breaking the rules.
So, what’s really happening here is a carefully balanced see-saw. Women try to put themselves in positions where they can be raped, and men try to get positioned for the raping. —-only then it’s not rape is it?
So what is real rape? The answer for women: street rape or stranger attack, and for men it’s the false rape claim.
The element of stranger street rape (real rape) needs to be addressed. It is horrifying, and society needs to go back to separating these into categories. Further, the element of male rape by women (that is, false rape allegations) needs to be addressed because that is just as horrifying and destructive. The perpetrators of these two crimes should face dire penalties.
Good men and women can learn from understanding force and submission. And instead of feeling guilty or ashamed we can feel proud that we truly making each other happy. Perhaps men can be REAL men again, and women can be real women.
Just as submitting to man may arouse him, keeeping him requires provided other things too ( clean home, happy kids). So it goes that using force on a woman may arouse her keeping her requires you provide protection an leadership. Ladies who admire strong men know the difference between a man taking ownership and a man who is just taking.
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So now we fully believe women about their alleged rape fantasies and the “not insincere nonconsent” in them, while we previously were supposed to take everything a woman says she wants with about a mountain of salt?
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Rihanna’s hit single “S&M” is semi-autobiographical. “Being submissive in the bedroom is really fun,” she says. “You get to be a little lady, to have somebody be macho and in charge of your shit. That’s fun to me…I like to be spanked. Being tied up is fun.
– Rolling Stone http://bit.ly/fGRUir
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Name,
I understand what you are saying and I don’t speak from experience since I’ve never been raped. The idea of it just doesn’t seem that bad, that’s all. I would much rather be raped than be in a car accident or caught in a tsunami. I’d prefer being raped to many other bad things that could happen to me or my family. I think most women feel the same way.
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I would think that being a woman must involve a strong inherent tension between what seems to be the basic feminine desire to be dominated and the basic HUMAN desire to NOT be dominated.
I wonder if these desires are positively or negatively correlated. Who is more likely want rough sex and have rape fantasies–the domineering bitch or the genuine nice girl?
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The “rape” fantasy is, at its heart, the non-responsibility fantasy. Consent implies responsibility. Many women dislike responsibility.
In “As Good as it Gets”, Jack Nicholson plays an author who, when asked how he writes women characters so well, replies “I think of a man, and I take away reason and accountability”.
In consensual sex, the woman has some responsibility for the consequences and implications resulting from the act, because she agreed to it.
In the rape fantasy, the woman gets to be ravished by a man (or men) she finds desirable, without having any responsibility for consenting to the act. It’s not her fault. She cannot be blamed for fucking a guy her friends or family might not approve of. She cannot be considered a slut for fucking a guy she just met and whose name she does not know. She does not need to find a logical reason for her feelings. She doesn’t need to reconcile her desire for the handsome cad with her intellectual understanding that he’s totally unsuitable for any long term relationship.
It is pure freedom from accountability.
From many years of observation of my wife and daughters, I finally have a good idea of what women want, and it is freedom without accountability. Women want to be able to do whatever the hamster squeaks at them to do, safe in the knowledge that Daddy will come along afterward and handle all the consequences.
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My wife confided in me before we got married that she had rape fantasies. She told me she wanted me to “break in” to the house and bend her over and have my way with her without saying a word.
This fits with the profile. The token “no” exists, but it is not real, because deep down inside, the safety net is that I am her husband, not a random nasty stranger.
We never got to act this out, since she started a birth control regimen soon after we got married that annihilated her sex drive and hormonal balance. So, instead of me having my way with her, Pfizer/Glaxo/E. Lilly got to have their way with her.
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Lara,
Yeah, I guess I’m at the other end of the spectrum, which is why your words are so alien to me. My FILs “advice” is get out alive, you can always get counseling later. I don’t know, maybe survival instincts are that strong that it’d look like an option if I were ever in that situation. But I don’t think I’d recover very well from a rape. I don’t like people taking things from me without asking. So, I’d need some sort of revenge after the fact (assuming I wasn’t successful at fighting off an attacker). I personally would have zero guilt of killing my rapist, especially during the incident, and not even that much less so days or weeks later. I dunno. Maybe physically struggling escalates things and is more likely to result in death, but if someone is okay with raping you, he’s probably just as easily okay with killing you. Might as well fight hard if my chance of death is the same.
I’m sure natural disasters are devastating. But there’s really no one to be mad at when you experience them. Rape has a clear perpetrator(s). And of course if I kill my rapist, I save other women from future rapes. (I doubt many rapists are single offenders.)
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Lara,
It might not be “that bad” as in devastating, unless you’re left with permanent physical scars. But it’s a pretty clear violation of my autonomy, which is incredibly aggravating. I caught a group of late teen/early adult males trying to steal bikes from my yard. And I can’t even describe my level of rage. I’m not going to be like the mom in Massachussetts who let 2 armed men take her daughters and family hostage while she went to the bank to get the money they requested (all her family, but the husband, ended up raped and dead). I would absolutely NOT negotiate with anyone who broke to into my home. Negotiating is for purchasing souvenirs on Tijuana sidewalks. I wouldn’t think, I’d just act, which is completely out of character for me. But I’m highly reactive in certain situations. I’m not advocating stronger punishments for rapists, I don’t need the government to do that for me. I can take care of it myself.
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This is a little one-sided to emphasize an S&M bias… women fantasize about all sorts of freaky shit….
a) being a hooker
b) being a stripper
c) gang bang/double penetration
d) lesbian hookups with their hot friends
e) weird public sex and deviancy.
f) public nudity (especially if they are hot)… nude at the mall, for example.
g) and candlelit romantic sex
All told, their desires are all around eccentric and strange…. nothing linear like men. Very diverse. The moral: keep it interesting.
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Ozy,
I think you’re confused on what a “beta herb” is. A man who pounds you hard, pulls your hair, or chokes you is really not displaying classic herb behavior. Now, getting dominated BY you would certainly fit the definition of herb behavior. What’s hilarious about your post is that you seem to enjoy the fantasies of both. Two questions: have you dominated a man in this manner before sexually, and which would you prefer, to sub or dom?
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Name,
Don’t make predictions about what you’d do in a life-threatening situation. You have no idea.
Someone pulls a knife on you, with intent, and you’re likely to piss and/or shit yourself. “Rage” is quite secondary.
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Guys, if you want to know about women’s rape fantasies you need go no farther than your corner drugstore to buy a pulp Harlequin romance. Lots of “woman says no but bends to the man’s unstoppable desire for her” kind of stuff.
If you read one of these critically, they are a virtual textbook for seduction. I highly recommend it.
These things are bought and read by millions of women. The market doesn’t lie.
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Name,
I totally see your point and your attitude is admirable. I probably would have tried to negotiate with those men like the woman in MA and clearly that was the wrong thing to do.
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bfuller– I prefer dominating; I’m a physical masochist (I enjoy pain) but not a submissive, if that makes sense. In terms of the personality descriptions of beta herbs that he has written, I am definitely a fan of the betas: intelligent, geeky, socially awkward, gamers, shy, sweet, romantic, chronically dateless. In my experience, a beta is perfectly willing to slap me around a little, if I tell them that I enjoy it, and frankly I’d be rather creeped out by someone who hurt me before I told them I liked it.
What’s weird is that I’ve observed more women interested in betas (my roommate and I discussed last night the ineffable hotness of mathematicians) than in thugs or bad boys. Admittedly, I go to a VERY WEIRD school: the guy who has the most ridiculous number of girlfriends has a Mandalorian tat. But my observations suggest that even in the real world confident, social, outgoing, funny people of whatever gender get the most sex.
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“I wonder if these desires are positively or negatively correlated. Who is more likely want rough sex and have rape fantasies–the domineering bitch or the genuine nice girl?”
I recall reading (in a book on serial killers, natch) that high dominance women prefer high dominance men, and low dominance women prefer low dominance men–they find high dominance men frightening. Given what we’ve all been reading about feminists with masochistic fantasies, I suspect the answer to your question is ‘domineering bitch’.
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Yeah you when I read feminists attempting to broaden the definition of rape to include “coercion” or going on about “rape culture” I can’t help but think they doth protest too much! Much like conservative politicians who seem obsessed with homosexuality and then turn out to be gay themselves, I think it’s a definite possibility that the readership at Shakespeare’s sister are women who have rape fantasies but are in the closet/in denial about it. Sickos!
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[…] squad’? What vicious libel. No. I do not recall actively encouraging anyone to have rape fantasies. At the same time, I don’t think they should remotely be treated as freakish either, […]
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Re: Name’s ability to take care of herself
A desire to defend ones self is natural, yet I am struck by these sorts of attitudes. Somewhere in this thread it was mentioned that men may fantasize about killing a foe, but will rarely act on it.
Name clearly fantasizes about killing her foe – and in order to facilitate this fantasy, she fantasizes about being raped.
I wonder if this is the sort of rape fantasy one would consider aversive.
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Ozy,
Yeah I figured you were an outlier. Most women prefer to sub rather than dom and vice-versa. I’m sure there’s a reason why you prefer it, but I won’t get Freudian on you and try to guess why.
Some women do enjoy the company of betas. How do you think I got laid for so many years? I was exactly what you’ve described. My sharp wit, intellect, and critical eye (not to mention incredibly awesome taste in music) scored me quite a few beta groupies. However, almost all of them would have traded me in a second for an alpha-behaving man that fit their schema of attractiveness. Some did, even though they professed their love for those sweet, soft, sensitive betas, and still do. I’ve seen it happen more times than not.
One of the most important lessons for a beta to learn is to judge women by what they do and not what they say. I submit that most women who extol the virtues of beta loving will shed it the second they get attention from a powerful alpha.
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Usually like the articles, this one was silly. 60% of women admit to a “rape” fantasy, and only 9% of those are actual forceful rapes? C’mon.
The “rapes” that women fantasize about come from guys who look like Antonio Banderas did in his prime. Actual rapes are usually perpetrated by greasy smelly ugly dudes breaking into a house or grabbing some jogger in Central Park. Or by some drunken frat boy who thinks he’s hot shit. Something tells me the number of women who fantasize about REAL rape is very low indeed.
And this:
“As no evidence was presented that the self-character’s nonconsent was insincere, the label of “seduction” does not seem justified. ”
QUADRUPLE-negative in one sentence!? Must be written by a scientist.
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This and the comments are fucking disgusting.
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Rina,
If this post and the comments disgust you, feel free to stop reading at any time. You won’t, of course, because you have rape fantasies yourself.
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“He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp posts–for support rather than illumination.” – Andrew Lang
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[…] – “More Women Have Rape Fantasies Than Previously Thought“, “Why Game is Important for Fathers“, “Denying Women Sex is […]
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“One of the most important lessons for a beta to learn is to judge women by what they do and not what they say. I submit that most women who extol the virtues of beta loving will shed it the second they get attention from a powerful alpha.”
Yup. Simply liking Star Trek, etc. does not make a man a beta. The two are correlated, but a geek who learns enough game to make himself an alpha but retains his nerdy interests will do better than a beta geek, although probably not as well as a football-loving alpha…outside of some college towns, perhaps.
A lot of the heavier girls will get into geek stuff to snag themselves a geek rather than an alpha with a criminal record.
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Hawley & Hensley (2009) found that agentic, dominant women are more likely to fantasize about being raped than subordinate women.
From the abstract: “By adopting an evolutionary meta-theoretical perspective (and a resource control theory perspective), it was hypothesized that highly agentic, dominant women prefer forceful submission fantasies (more than subordinate women) as a means to connect them to agentic, dominant men. In addition, it is suggested that dominant women would ascribe a meaning to the object of the fantasy different from that assigned by subordinate women (i.e., ‘‘warrior lover’’ vs. ‘‘white knight’’). Two studies were conducted with nearly 900 college students (men and women) from a large Midwestern university. Hypotheses were largely supported.”
As my lover puts it, you don’t want to chase a pony unless you’re capable of riding it. Slow, predictable ponies are boring unless that’s all you’re capable of handling.
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Just a personal observation: I’ve always had problems with women after “choreographic rape” sex. Could count other domination tools (handcuffs etc.) situations, too. They orgasmed powerfully, almost as a rule, but…. a shadow had been cast on our relationship & it eventually dissolved. Perhaps because I’m, as a rule, involved with women with strong will & personality, and they have this masochistic core somewhere near the center of their psychic being. It has to be
ruptured if they are to achieve mind-blowing sexual fulfillment. Just- it also fractures their self esteem, and when they regain ordinary ego-consciousness, they don’t want to be with me, the person who “owned” and “utterly subjugated” them, and saw them profoundly enjoying it- hell, lost their conscious identity. So, my 0.02 $: a) do it for sex only, but be careful with your permanent partner, b) if your partner is terminally submissive, do it, c) if your partner is a strong-willed female- avoid it, even if she begs you. Because you’ll both regret it, after the greatest explosion of the senses you’d had.
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When men want to know what arouses women so that they can tailor their game for maximum effectiveness, they observe the behavior patterns of slender women in their primes. Men do not wonder, nor do they care, what cougars, fatties, frumpy hausfraus or grandmothers fantasize about. So for all of you has-beens emphatically denying that you ever have rape fantasies and shouting from the mountaintop that you wouldn’t date jerks…
…who gives a flying fuck?
Damn, I never heard so much truth.
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[Editor: If fantasy is different from reality…
then why don’t women ever have fantasies about soft, sensitive lovemaking with a beta herb shuffling papers in his cubicle?
Game, set, match.]
Sums up all resistance to and comments about this post.
Feminists can kiss my ass. Being a nice guy got me nothing. Got me a divorce.
Being a marginally jerky guy who demanded and took and gave back when women earned it got me laid more than I ever dreamed in my pathetic beta fantasies.
The lies women tell themselves about themselves.
Answer me that, feminist self-delusionals.
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