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Chateau Heartiste

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Science Confirms Another Game Concept: Older Women Need Less Game

April 13, 2011 by CH

Quite a while back there was a post at this Den of Delicious Sadism blog which explained how game changes depending on the age bracket of the woman you are trying to pick up. A few choice quotes from that post:

The 23-27 year old feels she is at her attractiveness peak, despite her peak having passed a few years earlier. This is because she is surrounded by many more high status men than she was while in college (or working at the Piggly Wiggly) who are expressing sexual interest in her. This social dynamic will work to inflate her ego beyond the bounds of her actual beauty ranking. Some consequences result from this.

NEG HARDER. The 23-27 year old will require harder negging than any other age group of women, even the hotter 18 year olds. She needs her ego punctured before her pussy will open for you. […]

The [31-34 year olds] are the kind of women who have sexual flings with college guys, because they can psychologically box those men in as “purely for fun” adventures. But the men the 31-34 year old women really want are the older, established men who will give them a marriage proposal and a family. This is why it is counterintuitively harder to game the older woman who still retains a vestige of her youthful attractiveness: she wants and expects so much more than the younger woman.

Game required: Strong body language, masculine dominance, sharp suits and shoes, easy on the negs and palm reading, emphasis on the comfort stage, lots of travel stories, disqualify yourself from sex on the first date, vulnerability game, avoidance of the beta provider zone. […]

The [36-38 year olds] are at peace with their spinsterhood and their failure in the dating market. A woman in this age bracket will acquiesce easily and gratefully to sex with very little game, as long as you don’t look like a grandpa. Her expectations are so low, it will be a challenge to disappoint her.

That post got a lot of feedback from commenters and emailers who saw in it a deep and profound truth reflected in their own life experiences. Haters, naturally, were livid with pent-up frustration that the mirror would be so impudently turned in their direction, but they at least could retire to their twin-sized beds and cans of cat food tumbling out of the pantry, soothed with the knowledge that no scientific study as yet had proved the bold claims made in that post. They felt they could glide through another day safely ensconced in their comforting lies.

N o t  a n y m o r e.

Reader quetal left a link to a very revealing study in the comments which, like other studies before it, confirms much of what is written here at the Chateau:

Tailor Your Approach to Your Audience: Data collected by Virtual Dating Assistants revealed that while women of all ages respond well to humor, women in their early 30s and above responded well to longer, more thoughtful emails that expressed genuine interest. Women in their 20s rejected these more serious emails, preferring even some slight cockiness – or what some dating coaches call the “Cocky & Funny” approach. In fact, one particular email that is long (over 150 words), expresses interest, draws commonalities (it’s always customized), demonstrates humor as well as a sense of ambition and adventure received a 9.7% response rate from women in their 20s, a 20.5% response rate from 30-somethings, and a 50.3% [response rate] from women 40 and above. This email, according to Scott, was sent to over a thousand women of different ages, so it’s pretty clear, based on these numbers alone, that a one-size-fits-all approach to online dating is a bad one.

Pwned.

You’ll notice that the study’s results square perfectly with the Chateau’s post quoted at the top. Older women on the downslope of their sexual desirability need less game and more signals of commitment to get them in bed than younger women in their sexual primes. Or, to put it more succinctly, younger, hotter, tighter women love assholes while older, uglier, looser women gravitate to beta providers.

The reason for this age difference in women’s reactions to game is clear: Older women have less sexual marketability and are thus more likely to be pumped and dumped by a high value man. Ensuring that the man sticks around is priority number one, so older women look for signs of herbly romantic interest of the kind that you might see a humanities department professor wallow in while stroking his weak-chin-hiding white beard. One of these signs is the long-winded thoughtful email with perfect punctuation. Younger women, in contrast, are playing with pocket aces, and can afford to indulge their animal desires for the aloof, alpha jerk of their dreams.

Now, as a man, which age group of women are you more interested in? Yeah, that’s what I thought. So… turn on your jerk light. Let it shine wherever you go. Let it make a jerky glow. For all the chicks to see.

This blog frequently gets lady commenters proclaiming to the high heavens that they would never date an asshole. After a leetle prying, it is usually revealed that these howling anti-game termagants are north of the Matron-Vixen line. And that they aren’t, how shall we say?, attractive representatives of their gender.

Of course older women don’t go for assholes as much as they used to when they were younger and hotter — their rapidly closing window of options means they can’t afford the risk of satisfying their carnal need for aloof jerks who are likely to leave them as soon as a younger prospect shows up. Younger women have these worries, too, but given their many years ahead of serviceability they don’t feel them as acutely, which explains why you often see the hottest chicks on the arms of the biggest assholes.

So if you want to bang broads teetering on the edge of witherdom with kids and marriage and college funds dancing in their dreams, go easy on the cocky and funny and the negs. The older woman’s ego has taken enough of a bruising from the encroachment of reality; your negs will only push her into self-flagellating withdrawal or indignant lashing out. She needs to know she still has the kind of looks that can turn heads, so your cloying flattery will work wonders on her.

On the other hand, if you want to date hot girls in their 20s and, for a lucky few of them, early 30s, you have to give ’em a bit of the ol’ ultrabadness. It’s the moral thing to do, if women’s pleasure is your business.

Executive Summary: Young women are harder lays. They require game and a cocky attitude. Older women are easier lays. They require flowers, compliments and cuddles. Don’t take dating advice from women. This goes double for women over 30.

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Posted in Game, Girls, Hitting The Wall, Rules of Manhood, Ugly Truths | 156 Comments

156 Responses

  1. on April 13, 2011 at 5:19 pm Black Rebel

    Matron-Vixen Line…using it.

    LikeLike


  2. on April 13, 2011 at 5:20 pm Da_Truth_Hurts

    Common sense… that is why feminists must fight it!

    LikeLike


  3. on April 13, 2011 at 5:24 pm collegeslacker

    And they shook

    LikeLike


  4. on April 13, 2011 at 5:27 pm Offtopic

    I’ll just leave this here:

    ——–

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23254178/ns/health-sexual_health/

    Born-Again Virgins.

    Select Quotes-

    Victoria Watts, a 23-year-old single mother of two small children who lives in Canton, Ohio, lost her virginity at 16 with her high school boyfriend.She was the granddaughter of a Pentecostalist pastor and the daughter of an assistant pastor, and she believed sex outside marriage was wrong. “I felt really bad from a religious standpoint,” she recalls of the experience. “My thoughts were really clouded because I was so emotionally bonded with my boyfriend. That overshadowed my religious world.”

    She wished she could step back in time and recapture her lost virginity. Thinking of how “I could have ruined one of greatest fulfillments of my life,” the first time having sex with a husband, she wanted to “have that opportunity again. I know my [future] husband deserves a whole person.” So Watts engaged in a lot of prayer and thought, and now declares herself a virgin once again. “The most important thing was to realize what my values were and what I want in the future and the bigger goals in my life,” she says. “That’s why I can call myself a renewed virgin.”

    But is it really possible to reclaim your virginity? If it is, what does it mean to be a virgin in the first place? And what does it mean to “lose” one’s virginity? Religiously motivated women like Watts believe it’s very possible to become a born-again virgin — if you believe it is so and pledge abstinence until marriage. The fact that some women believe they are able to recapture a kind of sexually virginal state underlines the idea that virginity is not nearly the black-and-white issue most of us think, that it has come to be as much a concept as a fact.

    Interestingly, of the 61 women and men interviewed, “three-fourths of men adamantly declared secondary virginity to be impossible, compared to about one-fourth of women,”

    ——————-

    More at the source.

    [Editor: Classic hamster rationalization. Look at his wee legs run!]

    LikeLike


  5. on April 13, 2011 at 5:28 pm Da_Truth_Hurts

    Mathematics of beauty.

    LikeLike


  6. on April 13, 2011 at 5:34 pm Anonymous

    black rebel…first comment nailed it!! matron-vixen line is fuckin hilarious!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    3=============))))

    LikeLike


  7. on April 13, 2011 at 5:35 pm subspace_matrix

    Of course, the glue that holds this argument together is that

    Faking commitment is easy.
    Game is hard.

    LikeLike


  8. on April 13, 2011 at 5:42 pm TrollMaximus

    Well it’s also a known thing that email is not a popular method of communication for younger people. So a long, well-crafted email of course appeals to old folks.

    [Editor: Perhaps your reading comprehension is at the level of an ameoba, but you must have missed the part in the study where it said that young women responded better to emails that were more cocky. So it’s not the email itself that is the deciding factor in response rates, it’s the style with which it is written.]

    LikeLike


  9. on April 13, 2011 at 5:44 pm Robber

    @offtopic holy shit, you could replace Fukushima with the power of those spinning hamsters. What a nutjob.

    LikeLike


  10. on April 13, 2011 at 5:50 pm justadude

    I just spat out my drink reading the matron-vixen line. Fucking gold!

    LikeLike


  11. on April 13, 2011 at 6:06 pm quetal

    thanks for quoting me, Scott Valdez’s blog is a treasure trove. like this article on how to have alpha male confidence online (hint: be aloof!)

    http://virtualdatingassistants.com/Blog/2011/02/24/how-to-have-powerful-alpha-male-confidence-online/

    Scott mentioned on his blog that when he first started he had many female dating assistants (i.e. ghost writers) who worked with him however he said that the response rate of female dating assistants was SIGNIFICANTLY lower than their male counterparts and he had to fire most of them.

    he reason he said that women get excited and THINK they know what other women want while seasoned men/players KNOW what works in real life…food for thought!

    something else that might interest you
    “New research shows that, for every husband pursuing affairs online, there are more than three wives”
    http://manvsdate.com/dating-dead/

    LikeLike


  12. on April 13, 2011 at 6:10 pm J. Gutts

    KUATO IS MY WINGMAN.

    LikeLike


  13. on April 13, 2011 at 6:12 pm Snoeperd

    @Offtopic

    All the rationalization in that article, or in our society for that matter, is starting to piss me off. Never knew that people could be so conflicting with their emotions vs their ideas.

    LikeLike


  14. on April 13, 2011 at 6:12 pm A.B. Dada

    I’m 37 and I tend to date women 19-25 and have since I was 17. Last year I finally dated a 34 year old (who reads this site for advice and turned me on to it) who supports my manly ways. This year I started seeing a 37 year old as well.

    This article is dead on. I repeat: DEAD ON. The 19-22 year olds need a challenge and 100% proof of success. Their friends all openly hate me but many of them still flirt. Sluttts. The 23-27 year olds get so much (beta) attention that I just ignore them 100%. That’s why most women I date are that age, they can’t handle being ignored.

    The 28-32 year olds are off limits. They’re getting over being used by musicians and artists, they’ve gained 30# and they are ready for impregnation. I avoid like the plague. I even taunt openly and tell them they’re too old for me. They are, almost 100% of the time, useless.

    This breed of 33 ladies are just fantastic. I’m almost addicted, especially if they’re size 2 or smaller. They love sex, love that I have a rotation/stable of women, love dressing up, love their lives and jobs. I can be kind to them or I can command them around and they eat it all up. I can’t believe I avoided this age group until the past year. Downside: most of them have bodies that show age. The few I’m with don’t, but I prequalify them and if they’re haggard and saggy, I refuse them my bedroom or night adventures.

    Best post ever. Bookmarked and emailed to friends.

    LikeLiked by 1 person


  15. on April 13, 2011 at 6:36 pm Sai

    “…you have to give ‘em a bit of the ol’ ultrabadness. It’s the moral thing to do, if women’s pleasure is your business.”
    I love this line 🙂

    LikeLike


  16. on April 13, 2011 at 6:37 pm Traveller

    So, it is some time I read this site and often there is this kind of study.

    “Science proves me right” etc etc.

    Ok I am not doubting that, and I understand there is pride in these validations.

    But I can not prevent myself laughing at this so called science. Come on, tons of $$$ and time resources for studying what? The frustrations of some stupid female?

    Of course, with the research totally monopolized by affirmative actions and other low level people, it seems safer express trivialities about the pathetic “Sex and the City” followers than, for example, study engineering or physics.

    At least the linked article calls it “market research”.

    Just a little rant, heavy dinner this night.

    LikeLike


  17. on April 13, 2011 at 6:38 pm Anonymous

    LOL. Matro-vixen line….hilarious

    LikeLike


  18. on April 13, 2011 at 6:38 pm sestamibi

    The “secondary virginity” travesty is at least a little more credible when you don’t have not one, but two bastard spawn in tow.

    LikeLike


  19. on April 13, 2011 at 6:51 pm Cyning

    Also applies to the hot/ugly scale as well as the young/old one.

    LikeLike


  20. on April 13, 2011 at 7:30 pm Tinderbox

    “Born-Again Virgins” my ass! A pinnacle of the female dream world. Up there with the hot handyman boyfriend who turns out to be a secret millionaire.

    LikeLike


  21. on April 13, 2011 at 7:45 pm Gil

    So there’s no such thing as a “late bloomer” just a loser?

    LikeLike


  22. on April 13, 2011 at 5:45 pm Annette

    Just wanted to put to rest the whole “I would never date an asshole” claim.

    I’m in my 20’s and have been rated roughly an 8 by multiple guys – if that says anything to you.

    Yes, I ABSOLUTELY go for guys that are jerks. Why? Couldn’t tell you, I never realize the trend until afterwards. Best accept the truth rather than deny it. CH is spot on. Any girl who tells you otherwise is blissfully blinding herself.

    LikeLike


  23. on April 13, 2011 at 8:25 pm eric

    @sestamibi “not one, but two bastard spawn in tow”

    I believe you mean not one, but two immaculately conceived christ-childs in tow.

    If I ever met this woman, I would mock her endlessly with jesus references.

    On the subject of age-appropriate game, I tend to find older women much more interesting to talk to. Late-twenties women always seem to be bragging about their careers. Older women have other things to talk about.

    LikeLike


  24. on April 13, 2011 at 8:37 pm Tim

    Not a word in this post is false. Not. one. word. I particularly liked the “let your jerk light shine.”

    For what it’s worth, a close relation of mine had her marriage implode a few years ago. She was early 30’s when her husband split. She’s dating now, but she is 39, and her partner is 50. Her ex husband was a cad and a jerk. Her new boyfriend is Herbly McHerblyberger.

    LikeLike


  25. on April 13, 2011 at 8:54 pm Ludwig

    C&F with the young chicks is the way to go.

    For those of us who are exceptionally dry and deadpan, it can sometimes backfire. As in, the girl is oblivious to the fact that you were JOKING.

    LikeLike


  26. on April 13, 2011 at 8:58 pm namae nanka

    Hey Traveller, some award-winning research for you:

    http://bit.ly/fFJ8u4

    LikeLike


  27. on April 13, 2011 at 9:03 pm julian

    what i dont understand and still will never understand is why would women who can see with their own eyes that their attractiveness is at a declination ask more of a man ? what im referring to is status and money, etc.

    and women who are younger, more beautiful and are generally less bitter all they ask for is game, a fun loving vibe and a modicum of looks.

    i would say getting the status and money is much harder to attain than getting some game and updating your look. so what is harder to attain in life actually reaps you a shittier reward.

    shit is ass backwards in woman-land.

    LikeLike


  28. on April 13, 2011 at 9:29 pm joker

    as much as i value the truth, sometimes i think i enjoy the comfortable illusions provided by women’s rationalization hamsters. it helps me keep hope in humanity.

    annette’s admission, conversely, inspires a nihilistic depression in me. it makes me feel like quitting my job, vandalising somebody’s property, and getting into fights. and why not, given all the proof we have that young women prefer complete sociopaths?

    how can anyone read such an admission (and the rest of the body of evidence) and conclude that women are anything but inferior humans? with these considerations in mind, repealing women’s rights doesn’t strike me as such an extreme position.

    LikeLike


  29. on April 13, 2011 at 9:39 pm john

    born again virgin? that is the most ridiculously idiotic thing i have ever heard. i bet her two kids have different dads. why are women like that even on the planet? seriously. sickening

    LikeLike


  30. on April 13, 2011 at 9:51 pm Cadnerd

    Joker, there are women that are sort of special snowflakes that are low hamster. Sigma wenches. The problem for most guys is that these wenches tend to pick sigmas too. It’s kind of a radar they have.

    About 70% of women are on full hamster runner. 21% so-so. 8% sigma. 1% snowflakes of other kind.

    So, the advice… go through them like grim reaper, until you find one from the 1%. (Nearly no chance with sigmas if you’re not one).

    LikeLike


  31. on April 13, 2011 at 10:05 pm Annette

    “annette’s admission, conversely, inspires a nihilistic depression in me. it makes me feel like quitting my job, vandalising somebody’s property, and getting into fights. and why not, given all the proof we have that young women prefer complete sociopaths?”

    joker- women tend to think they can make men better. It’s a female ego thing. We don’t intentionally look for the jerks and decide to run after them. We have this notion that we can make people (men) better. I’m sure it could be explained biologically (women being nurturers etc.). We want to “heal” the wounded. Often, the jerks come across as emotionally wounded guys. That’s all there is to it. Is it rational? Nope.

    [Editor: I’ve heard this theory before from plenty of feminists. The problem with it is that the female nurture instinct is not connected to the tingle generator. I don’t think women love jerks because they want to nurture them, but rather because jerks display more obvious signs of dominance and aloofness.]

    LikeLike


  32. on April 13, 2011 at 10:07 pm samseau

    born again virgins…………

    yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhahahahahahah

    by the way, the “gaming women by age bracket” was truly an impressive post, absolute truth in there. i tried to 1st date fuck-close a woman who was 31, and it backfired. should have ended it early and set up a second date….

    LikeLike


  33. on April 13, 2011 at 10:12 pm StrikeForceMorituri

    This post is straight up 100% true while I was reading this I just imagined my years of dating and the work that I had to deal with according to the age bracket of the girl I was dealing with.

    A.B. Dada pretty much summed up everything I could have brought to the table. 19-22 year olds haven’t been on my plate in a while but in all fairness at my age it’s kind of a chore to hold a half decent convo with them. I just go for the Atomic neg and just pick up the pieces from there.

    I’ll stretch his 28-32 and make it go to about 36, these chicks are feverishly looking for men to get them pregnant and I agree they are packing on the pounds. I too avoid them like the plague as they know that their on replicant time and their not liking the fact that they wasted all their time and don’t have the house and kids. When I do hit the occasional one in this range, I make sure to jimmy hat it up.

    40 and up….. it’s really all about how good you can hold a conversation and whether you can look fairly presentable with minimal effort. I find them more adventurous in bed but the non tightness of their bodies are the trade off.

    Matron/Vixen line that is pure gold sir……..

    LikeLike


  34. on April 13, 2011 at 10:15 pm College Grad

    “Or, to put it more succinctly, younger, hotter, tighter women love assholes while older, uglier, looser women gravitate to beta providers.”

    Should read:

    “Or to put it more succintly, younger, hotter, tighter women love love assholes while older, uglier, looser women like pussies.”

    Literary flare ftw.

    LikeLike


  35. on April 13, 2011 at 10:16 pm Cadnerd

    Annette, women tend to think they can make men better

    It also reflects in the fact that women tend to be on the left side of the political spectrum and buy into the liberal mental disorder more than men. They want to make a “better world”, which with uncanny regularity always ends with a lot of dead people.

    Just the way things are.

    LikeLike


  36. on April 13, 2011 at 10:34 pm Bill Brasky

    Meh, older women…the few good ones are a) good because they are genetically lucky enough to look young in some way, and b) in very high demand among old men, the vast majority of whom cannot get prime young women.

    Where did you get your banner image…? i was just really taking a looking at it. It’s compelling. And the aspect ratio and resolution aren’t fucked up, that’s rare with amateur photoshop work.

    and oh, I forgot… c), old.

    LikeLike


  37. on April 13, 2011 at 10:39 pm Woof

    Women over 35 will eagerly go after guys even if the guys are married. Not that they’re looking only for a lay but they figure they have nothing to lose by trying to steal a married man. “Home wrecker” titles are ok as long as they end up with the man. If not then they at least tried. After all, married men are pre-qualified. If they got married once why not twice?

    LikeLike


  38. on April 13, 2011 at 10:47 pm Mensch

    There is a cosmetic surgery to restore physical virginity. I think born-again virgin is just an expression of someone who becomes christian after losing virginity and are of the intent from that point forward to remain celebate. Someone can’t restore physical virginity except through cosmetic surgery which would mean less than remaining celebate, IMO

    LikeLike


  39. on April 13, 2011 at 10:54 pm Insight

    @Cadnerd,

    Can you expound more or sigmas, both male and female? How do you identify male or female sigmas?

    LikeLike


  40. on April 13, 2011 at 10:58 pm eric

    @Annette: “We have this notion that we can make people (men) better.”

    You do make men better. Marriage to a loving, supportive wife makes a man a better man. A family gives us something important to live for that’s more than ourselves, sets our focus on the future and on stability and improvement, and gives us a stake in society.

    I’m divorced, but I want to again be a devoted husband. Dating, even sex, is a fundamentally empty experience without real love. I have to do it, for the same reason I have to eat – because it’s a physical need. But the base hedonism of it is a pale shadow of the way things were when I was married.

    I am a better man in many ways because of that experience, in spite of the unhappy ending (I might say something similar of military service – I’m a better man because I did it, but there was also pain and injury).

    I just wish that I lived in a world where simply being worthy of respect was sufficient to earn a woman’s respect. In that world, men would have a reason to better themselves. They’d stay in school, they’d work, they’d build civilization. That’s how women make men better. That’s what you can inspire in us. Unfortunately, I live in a world where there seems to be no correlation between those things, those honorable things, and success with women. Hence, game.

    LikeLike


  41. on April 13, 2011 at 11:12 pm Anonymous

    Do we still do those Alpha of the year things? If so I nominate Barry Zito, SF giants pitcher. Dude is on that Charlie Sheen tip. From what I can tell he just doesn’t give a shit anymore by the way he pitches. That and the fact all the other guys are doing the Fear the Beard thing while he’s doing the creepy There Will Be Blood moustache.

    Why bother with any of that 9 inning bullshit. He’s got it made. There’s a picture of him out there finger banging a playboy chick.

    Giants are losing, he’s WINNING

    LikeLike


  42. on April 13, 2011 at 11:27 pm julian

    @ eric

    those times have passed in america. women like you described still do exist but they are either religious, very young or not in the usa.

    LikeLike


  43. on April 13, 2011 at 11:49 pm Kingbeef

    You won’t need game when the dollar collapses. Canned food and bullets will be all one needs to procure a harem.

    LikeLike


  44. on April 13, 2011 at 9:56 pm pantyfx

    Watch the meta here CH; as the prevalence to game devourers people into this excuse to act real (and thank fucking god) people will adjust.

    We will see the alpha and beta wheel spin like democratic and republican.

    People who understand whats under all of it will still continue to fuck like wanton samurai pillaging a village.

    It’s not about being an asshole, which is why I wonder why you use that word so much. It’s about doing what restores people to the present moment. Sometimes its a kick in the face, sometimes it’s a neg. But you know what it is always? It’s always being in the present moment. It’s always paying attention. It’s always being ahead of your prey mentally.

    It’s not about orgasms, it’s about mana. ™

    LikeLike


  45. on April 14, 2011 at 12:09 am Bounder

    @ offtopic

    I hate you for ruining a great post with such an amazing off-topic bomb.

    I was racked with alternating bouts of nausea and fist-clenching rage as I read that article. I imagine the sensation was about 1/8th as intense as being cuckolded.

    As for the post, it really is what sets this blog apart from almost all others in the dating world. It sets down the obvious truths of human mating and couples it with clear, concise and memorable advise. “Matron-vixen line” will stick with anyone that hears it.

    LikeLike


  46. on April 14, 2011 at 12:30 am Cadnerd

    @Kingbeef,

    Don’t forget cans of coffee and an ample supply of chocolate.

    @Insight,

    Will do, just a bit busy at the moment, need to put it in a coherent form, so may take a bit of time.

    LikeLike


  47. on April 14, 2011 at 12:39 am infi

    Unrelated, but this video needs your comment:

    From the description: “Based on the “Manifesto for Conscious Men,” a collectively-written document from a number of men who feel that a new definition of masculinity can help redress the imbalances of patriarchy and welcome a new era of loving appreciation between men and women. A group of these men speak from the heart and offer a collective apology, on behalf of their gender, for past abuses of men against women.”

    Absolutely bewildering.

    LikeLike


  48. on April 14, 2011 at 12:42 am cheshirecat

    So… turn on your jerk light. Let it shine wherever you go. Let it make a jerky glow. For all the chicks to see.

    I suppose Neil Diamond was pretty alpha in his day.

    LikeLike


  49. on April 14, 2011 at 12:56 am collegeslacker

    This shit got me thinking… might try and go for a SNL with a 35 year old this summer back at home for the hell of it.

    Could be a good story.

    LikeLike


  50. on April 14, 2011 at 1:37 am Nicole

    Julian, it’s a Darwin thing.

    When a female doesn’t have the looks (either objectively or whatever it means in her society) to get a lot of positive feedback from others, she has to have inner strength or a lot of denial to survive without turning to drugs or suicide.

    A woman who’s survived a lot successfully is generally going to think more of herself and require a lot of her mates. Nobody wants to downbreed.

    Basically it’s the same reason dorks don’t want to date ugly girls except as a last resort. Everybody wants a mate they feel is their equal or better, not someone they feel is beneath them.

    LikeLike


  51. on April 14, 2011 at 1:44 am Cadnerd

    @infi

    “Unrelated, but this video needs your comment:”

    Piece of vomit, how about that? Has been already posted a few threads back. It is the same piece of vomit as it was then. It my be even a decent thang to do to delete it.

    LikeLike


  52. on April 14, 2011 at 1:45 am College Grad

    @collegeslacker

    Did that last summer… not nearly as cool as you’d hope. But definitely a good story considering I knew her daughter haha.

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  53. on April 14, 2011 at 2:17 am Anthony

    “Older women have less sexual marketability and are thus more likely to be pumped and dumped by a high value man. ”

    And they *know* that they’re likely to be dumped by a high-value man. The younger ones who aren’t as high-value don’t necessarily realize what’s going to happen to them.

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  54. on April 14, 2011 at 12:26 am azuzuru

    “So… turn on your jerk light. Let it shine wherever you go. Let it make a jerky glow. For all the chicks to see.”

    Fucking brilliant. Thanks CH.

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  55. on April 14, 2011 at 2:55 am Nicole

    Anthony, guys…I think there’s some weirdness here because of cougar culture.

    I’d like to remind everyone that a cougar is either an anomaly or a euphemism for catlady uninterested in or unable to have long term relationships.

    Very few older women are single or available on the general market because they’re unlucky. Most who have never been married by 30, chose that for some reason, or have something wrong with them that wasn’t wrong with a parapalegic or burn victim 25 year old who somehow found a guy for whom love conquers all.

    The fact that dwarves, fat people (like me), and other women with actual defects manage to marry decent men, and some women hot enough to get your attention at 30+ didn’t, ought to say something.

    So sometimes an older woman who’s available is a bit more high maintenance than you think she should be because she has always been into and had long term relationships. Most of the time though, it’s a matter of no man being “good enough” or she’s nuts or something.

    Either way, if it’s going to take more effort than you think it’s worth, just walk away. New poon is turning 18 every day, and you needn’t worry yourself with how to game old women until such a time as the one you decide to keep gets old, and you still want to keep her.

    About so-called high value men…High value men are married or the equivalent to a woman who’s hustling to keep his attention, or shagging young hot women, or doing whatever it is they want to do with whoever’s their fetish. Lazy and desperate men pursue older women for reasons other than some kind of mad, deep love, and older women know this.

    So it’s not necessarily that older women know they’re going to be dumped by high value men. We’re just simply not selected by high value men unless they have a fetish or are lazy. We just know we’re likely to be dumped by low value men who think they are entitled to more than real life actually brings them. Getting dumped by someone you’re going out of your way to try to be cool with is much worse than being dumped by someone you know can do better than you.

    So when you step to an older woman, her first thought is not that you’re too high value. It’s that you are probably lazy or desperate and she’s going to test the hell out of you to figure out which it is.

    I did this during my dating younger men phase (WORST advice I ever got by the way) even when I was game ignorant. I spent those relationships waiting for the guy to screw up, and then saying something like, “AHA!” at the end.

    None of the guys I went against my instincts to date has successfully done better than me, or even gotten someone around equally good to them. They’re all either alone or with harpies who treat them like crap on top of denying them sex.

    So before some of y’all look down on a woman for being older, you should probably ask yourselves what you’re actually doing to be worth more in the market than older women.

    I had to take a hard look at myself and ask myself whether or not I really deserved better than to be the last resort for guys who’d ultimately think they could trade up but actually couldn’t. At the time I didn’t.

    My solution for my problem was to just opt out of anybody less than five years older than me. At my age, no dick feels as good as dignity feels. For a man, the need for sex might be more urgent, but you should ask yourself whether getting into a warm body is really worth shagging an older woman you’re just going to throw away regardless of her actual value as a person or a partner, because she’s older than you. Is that hole really worth your dignity? Is it worth hers?

    If not, this is what hookers are for. If you prefer the thrill of the hunt, this is what game is for. You will just have to suck it up and learn how to act like a bit of an asshole, and not take the easy road of older women, or women you feel are ugly.

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  56. on April 14, 2011 at 3:05 am Nicole

    Heheheh, I meant to say, “No dick tastes as good as dignity feels.”

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  57. on April 14, 2011 at 3:59 am Rum

    Nicole

    A females dignity is enhanced when she gets lucky with greatness.
    Besides, there are no taste-buds in your esophagus.

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  58. on April 14, 2011 at 4:41 am RedEmperor

    I think this post needs a geographical qualification: In some countries, women in their thirties tend to have a ludicrously inflated sense of worth, even more so than in their twenties. The poor misguided souls think that their worth is now enhanced given their career and financial achievements. So they actually need more negging. This is very common with Irish women. Not that I recommend chasing women in their thirties

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  59. on April 14, 2011 at 5:19 am Cauthon

    It would be interesting to see a scientific study investigating if women get “Beta fever” after a certain age like they do baby fever.

    It makes sense that a woman’s hormones at her peak attractiveness would tell her to go after a high status guy and risk getting pumped and dumped for the chance at making a sexy son. As she declines, in the EEA survival for herself and her ilk would become a higher priority and she’d care more about dad traits like resource provision, physical protection and child rearing. (Women’s survival even after menopause is worthwhile to them biologically because they can be valuable social allies to their children.)

    Older women may be perfectly honest when they say that they prefer commitment-philes over cads, but that’s just their hormones optimizing the mating strategy to account for their upcoming infertility.

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  60. on April 14, 2011 at 5:59 am eric

    Nicole: “ask yourselves what you’re actually doing to be worth more in the market than older women.”

    What would be some examples of things men do to be worth more in the market than older women?

    IMHO a woman’s worth is largely her beauty, but also her demeanor. And frankly, beauty is strongly correlated with weight. So all you have to do, if you’re a woman, is watch your weight and be nice.

    A man’s worth is largely socioeconomic. I need to have a group of people that admire me. I need to have money. These are far more difficult things to do.

    Would you agree with the above, or did you have something else in mind?

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  61. on April 14, 2011 at 6:03 am Nicole

    Rum, maybe for young women with nothing better to do. It’s why some of them become groupies, I suppose.

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  62. on April 14, 2011 at 6:37 am Nicole

    Eric asks, “What would be some examples of things men do to be worth more in the market than older women?”

    Start with not trying to shag older women.

    Second, shag women your age or younger often.

    Easier said than done for some guys, I know. However, if you can’t do this, it’s time to rethink your position in the hierarchy.

    Sometimes knowing your place is the first step in changing it.

    “IMHO a woman’s worth is largely her beauty, but also her demeanor. And frankly, beauty is strongly correlated with weight. So all you have to do, if you’re a woman, is watch your weight and be nice.”

    …in every Cosmo quiz…

    “A man’s worth is largely socioeconomic. I need to have a group of people that admire me. I need to have money. These are far more difficult things to do.

    Would you agree with the above, or did you have something else in mind?”

    Money is one thing, and game is another. You need game to get young chicks who are putting out. Money, you don’t really need unless you’re trying to make a family at some point.

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  63. on April 14, 2011 at 4:43 am Timothy Webster

    CH, what do you think of R. Don Steel? How about the rest of you guys here? How does he compare to Mystery, de Angelo, DavidX?

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  64. on April 14, 2011 at 7:03 am Lovekraft

    Middle-aged men shouldn’t have to worry about gaming their wife to keep the tingles going and the shit-tests under control.

    Men who keep a roof over their heads, bills paid, savings etc should be appreciated for these achievements, instead of having to defend themselves against nagging, hypergamy, underminers etc.

    I understand the value of game and it benefited me greatly, but for someone over, say, 35, it shouldn’t be the be-all and end-all of finding a stable relationship.

    Which is why the need to destroy feminism is so important. Everyone wins. For women, they get their emotions put in proper perspective, for men, the ability to have a stable household.

    But, these days may be long gone as there may be no turning back the clock, in which case it’s fiddle-playing while Rome burns, I guess.

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  65. on April 14, 2011 at 7:24 am DirkJohanson

    I usually date youngins, but I did a still-thin and cute 38 YO ex-stripper a couple of weeks ago that I’d met about 8 years ago when she was married but have never been with. She must have mentioned that she was now 38 about 10 times during the course of the night.

    Minutes after I picked her up, she started telling me how good I looked and smelled, and rubbing all over me. A couple minutes after we got to the dive bar I took her to, she started telling me she wants a boob job, said, “don’t worry, you’ll be seeing them tonight.” We had one drink each before she asked about going back to my place and how much she wanted to take a bath, and after that drink was done, we headed to my crib.

    I did use a little game, by not reciprocating with the fawning. Looking back on it, I almost feel bad like I deprived her of something by not reciprocating, since there was so much room for error.

    The whole thing went down so easy, until she started stripping for the tub, I thought I was being punked. I wasn’t.

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  66. on April 14, 2011 at 7:44 am Anonymous

    Eric asks, “What would be some examples of things men do to be worth more in the market than older women?”

    Stop listening to what (or who) older women tell you to do or not do?

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  67. on April 14, 2011 at 8:38 am Nicole

    Lovekraft, life is full of shoulds. It’s good to have ideals and principles, but *especially* when one is talking about lifelong relationships, one has to be able to cope with real life.

    In real life, men who still have reasonably good sexual capability over 50 have a better time of it than women, but in the end, we all age. Just as a woman’s nurturing capability, kindness, and attentiveness will often make it easier for her man to keep her around, a guy’s strength, stability, consistency, and to some degree machismo or masculinity with flair, will make it easier for his woman to keep him around.

    These days, people may treat relationships like a joke, and masculinity as something bad, but that’s an unsustainable trend. It seems alien, a guy saying that game is necessary, but it’s nothing your grandfather or great grandfather would blink at.

    I’d venture that the vast majority of us who are here now exist because their (excuse my language) broke ass grandfather convinced their grandmother that there was just something about him that she had to get next to.

    Even if she says it’s because he was nice and kind, that was probably not it.

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  68. on April 14, 2011 at 8:44 am Nicole

    By the way, though television makes me sick most of the time, I think a good show for any student of game to watch is the _Tribal Wives_ series, especially if your thing is LTR’s.

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  69. on April 14, 2011 at 9:03 am betondo fuchatuch

    To: Editor.

    Off topic.

    Just watched what musta been the beta male of the century on Fox news gushing his displeasure (with his wife) at having to watch his 10-yr old daughter getting the pat down by a TSA agent.

    Even though the couple had multiple children the little girl was singled out (a very white family), and when the bmoc front-runner asked if she could do an alternate screening, he said the TSA was starting to get agitated so he backed off – AND VIDEO RECORDED HIS LITTLE DAUGHTER GETTING FELT UP BY A FUCKING GROWN-UP.

    My blood was at 211 degrees when the FN interview started with a very chipper HELLO from this halfa gamete. My father would have punched that TSAsob in the nose, went to jail and made me and my brothers and sisters walk to our destination before he woulda allowed that shit.

    Just wanted to know if you’d take a swing at this grapefruit over the middle.

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  70. on April 14, 2011 at 9:14 am Paul

    Why game your wife when she is 50 lbs overweight? To stop her from finding some chocolate?

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  71. on April 14, 2011 at 9:19 am what

    @Cadnerd
    “there are women that are sort of special snowflakes that are low hamster.”

    early morning when his defenses are down….so I thought! hehe!!
    ” am I a “s p e c i a l” snowflake?! ( spoken slowly, sweetly, shyly…) hee! hee!”
    “Flake.” (smirk….)
    I burst our laughing lol!!!!
    He’s sooo sweet!!! hahhahahhah!!
    he loooves me hee! hee! hee!

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  72. on April 14, 2011 at 9:50 am Laughingdog

    @Nicole

    With regards to women in their 30s that have never been married, I’ve found them to fit into only two categories, and most are in the latter group. Group A: professionally placed themselves out of the dating pool (e.g., naval officers, M.D.s, lawyers). Group B: narcissists. Group A eventually ends up being able to actually try to pursue relationships, though frequently have trouble turning off the alpha traits that they need for their jobs (my roommate would be in Group A). The ones in group B just keep becoming more and more demanding in their expectations as they get older. In their eyes, still being unmarried at that age actually makes them more valuable, because to actually lower their standards would require them to accept that they squandered their youth, beauty, and fertility on meaningless flings.

    The saddest example I’ve seen of that was a 39 year old woman, who is a 7 at best, describing on her “match” on her online dating profile. If the guy that fits that description even exists, he is sooooooo far out of her league that it’s pathetic that she even thinks she can have that.

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  73. on April 14, 2011 at 9:54 am Scipio Africanus

    ” these howling anti-game termagants are north of the Matron-Vixen line.”

    I howled!!!!

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  74. on April 14, 2011 at 10:33 am Schmoe

    @quetal “New research shows that, for every husband pursuing affairs online, there are more than three wives”

    Which just confirms Schmoe’s maxim, that cheating is for chicks and losers.

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  75. on April 14, 2011 at 10:42 am itsme

    The “secondary virginity” travesty is at least a little more credible when you don’t have not one, but two bastard spawn in tow.

    nah, it’s totally believable. jesus was immaculately conceived…

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  76. on April 14, 2011 at 10:49 am Schmoe

    Completely off-topic is a great racial post on okcupid. At least wrt dating, whites are the least racist race:
    http://blog.okcupid.com/index.php/what-if-there-were-not-so-many-white-people/

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  77. on April 14, 2011 at 11:37 am itsme

    as much as i value the truth, sometimes i think i enjoy the comfortable illusions provided by women’s rationalization hamsters. it helps me keep hope in humanity.

    the hamster rationalization engine is an integral part of every female. understanding how it works, and being able to manipulate it to get what you want, is game.

    annette’s admission, conversely, inspires a nihilistic depression in me. it makes me feel like quitting my job, vandalising somebody’s property, and getting into fights. and why not, given all the proof we have that young women prefer complete sociopaths?

    you needn’t be an actual sociopath, just possess the same qualities sociopaths do, tempered just enough to keep you from being thrown in jail or getting dead. walk that line that few others dare to walk, without actually crossing over it.

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  78. on April 14, 2011 at 11:40 am chi-town

    “joker- women tend to think they can make men better. It’s a female ego thing. We don’t intentionally look for the jerks and decide to run after them. We have this notion that we can make people (men) better. I’m sure it could be explained biologically (women being nurturers etc.). We want to “heal” the wounded. Often, the jerks come across as emotionally wounded guys. That’s all there is to it. Is it rational? Nope.

    [Editor: I’ve heard this theory before from plenty of feminists. The problem with it is that the female nurture instinct is not connected to the tingle generator. I don’t think women love jerks because they want to nurture them, but rather because jerks display more obvious signs of dominance and aloofness.]
    ”

    I think that this can combine into dominance-vulnerability game. The first really hot girl I got to stick was into fixing men. My biggest competition was other angst ridden men. I have no doubt she considered me angst ridden and aloof. It was true. I was beta to begin with but after a year or two I just don’t like getting fucked and it was showing. This was well before the game era.

    The funny thing is the day she said she loved me was when we had a conversation where I said if there was a way I could destroy my ability to have any sense of emotion, I would. That is what she told me. She fell in love with this contrast I suppose.

    I did betafy somewhat through the course of the relationship which was rocky and caused problems, but it tended to piss me off. I would act beta and react alpha. She was very much in love again at the end when I dumped her eating a turkey leg. I began to sense the irony of it immediately. She was the perfect girl friend when I was dumping her. Now I know what happened.

    Hell, I can remember the look a woman has when observing a beta. All I need to do is recall that one vivid memory to put me in a search and destroy kind of mood . I guess that gave me what I needed. Wish I had this blog way back then though. So much hit and miss. Its not just about the sex. Its about enjoying *any* relationship with women.

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  79. on April 14, 2011 at 11:59 am Nicole

    Betondo, maybe we’re related because my dad would also have been unphased by someone else’s “agitation”.

    Paul asks, “Why game your wife when she is 50 lbs overweight? To stop her from finding some chocolate?”

    Exactly.

    If you don’t give your wife a good reason to not blow up, and make her feed your family paleo or at least 300-year anachronistic, she will likely turn into a whale. It happened to me.

    I’m 3 years into recovery, and less of a whale, but after about 13 years a lot of damage was done that is livable now but permanent.

    Almost all women gain a little pudge over 30 and then a little more at menopause, but we’re only talking about a difference of 20 lbs. or so until they’re an age where they have mobility issues. The other 30+ lbs. is all western diet and despair.

    So don’t let your wife follow Oprah’s new diet plan of carbs and insecurity. Make her treat and feed you like a man, and she’ll keep it tight with very little conscious effort.

    Laughingdog says about the Group B (narcissists), “In their eyes, still being unmarried at that age actually makes them more valuable, because to actually lower their standards would require them to accept that they squandered their youth, beauty, and fertility on meaningless flings.”

    Well, this is what guys who shag them tell them to get their legs open. They believe it despite the way they get forgotten about and dumped repeatedly.

    Real deal narcissism is a mental illness, not just a regular personality quirk. They don’t see reality because they can’t.

    Some of my male friends tell me about women they’re talking to who fit that profile. I warn them to get out before what they think is confidence turns into flat out crazy.

    I only know one older single woman who has never been married who I would probably do if I was a guy of any age. She’s what I’d call a “smart old whore” and mean that in a good way.

    She was a hot young blonde, and is still hot for her age. She uses her looks to get money from men, and doesn’t want to live with any of them.

    …but even she had a long term relationship in her history. It’s just that since it didn’t work out, she figured that was it and she’d never love again, and just went for the gold.

    I sometimes envy her resolve. She managed to get to that point and keep what makes her feminine and sexy.

    My husband aged out, and I reverted to near suicidal goth for a few years. I feel like a wuss next to her.

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  80. on April 14, 2011 at 12:06 pm Tyrone

    @Eric:

    What you describe is a patriarchal society. We are in a hybrid system heading towards matriarchy, hence your complaints.

    I once felt the same as you do now. I went to Ukraine and found a really good woman there. I wouldn’ty trade my wife for any of the women I meet and might want to screw out there. None could match her in my eyes. They are pretty common there, as a matter of fact. I learned yesterday that my wife even brags about me. How many AW do that? You gotta hunt where the game is best.

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  81. on April 14, 2011 at 12:08 pm Dj

    This article says it all. I was dating a 42 year old women, and I had to give her the nice guy game. Polite, thoughtful and all that.

    I went from her to a 23 year old whom I was a real dickhead to.

    I love running cocky game on older women that I wouldn’t touch with a barge-pole though, it’s actually quite fun. They hate you for it.

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  82. on April 14, 2011 at 12:11 pm Dj

    I should add, you’d be surprised how poorly cocky-funny game works for a tall, good looking guy with a decent job in Toronto. Asshole game only works on the really young uns. We’ve hit critical mass of the single fembot types in Toronto who are convinced all men are assholes and the ‘where have all the good men gone’ attitude.

    Seriously, some of you PUA’s should check out Toronto, it’s bizzarro world, I have to actually act like a nice guy to get any in this fucking city.

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  83. on April 14, 2011 at 12:19 pm RedEmperor

    Timothy Webster,

    R. Don Steele can’t be taken seriously. He lectures about nailing hot young women, when he’s married to an ageing mail-order bride from the Phillipines.

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  84. on April 14, 2011 at 12:31 pm Dj

    @Laughingdog – the ones I know here in T.O. are narcissists. This is because all through their 20’s and early 30’s men have shamelessly thrown themselves at them, and they likely juggled many different men.

    Everything else you say is priceless. My ex No.1 is almost 35 and still has priced herself out of the market, however some dude online played rich, 007 game on her and she agreed to marry him, sight unseen, 10 months ago. He still hasn’t shown up, and she is very, very embittered.

    They get that way. Their 100 item list for what they want in a man suddenly becomes a 300 item list.

    Then the cat has kittens and she can’t find a home for any of them.

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  85. on April 14, 2011 at 12:52 pm Anonymous

    What can be said about younger chicks that take up with major betas?

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  86. on April 14, 2011 at 1:04 pm Firepower

    RedEmperor

    R. Don Steele can’t be taken seriously.

    Christ dude, wtf do you expect – what is he, like over 60?

    [Editor: That’s not the relevant variable in steele’s buffoonery.]

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  87. on April 14, 2011 at 1:21 pm Dalrock

    The [31-34 year olds] are the kind of women who have sexual flings with college guys, because they can psychologically box those men in as “purely for fun” adventures. But the men the 31-34 year old women really want are the older, established men who will give them a marriage proposal and a family. This is why it is counterintuitively harder to game the older woman who still retains a vestige of her youthful attractiveness: she wants and expects so much more than the younger woman.

    From the census data we are on the cusp of having a glut of never married 31-34 year olds (even bigger than the current glut). It will be interesting to see how this will change the dating/marriage markets.

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  88. on April 14, 2011 at 1:42 pm RedEmperor

    Firepower,

    It disqualifies him from posing as an expert on shtupping young ladies. Like a guy on welfare presenting lectures on Make Millions Today

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  89. on April 14, 2011 at 1:46 pm eric

    @Tyrone “What you describe is a patriarchal society.”

    Really? What specifically did I say that describes patriarchy? I said that women inspire men to be better. That’s patriarchy??

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  90. on April 14, 2011 at 1:52 pm Nicole

    Anonymous, that used to be called “normal” before women were being programmed to believe they were men with vaginas. Also, a regular “beta” guy 40 years ago would be viewed as a chauvanist pig with a god complex today.

    An alpha male is the guy in charge in a social unit. The family is the basic social unit. So to be basically alpha, a guy needed to be alpha enough to be the head of the family. The woman had to be supportive and strong enough to be the neck.

    Now that families are broken because marriage is a joke or a financial slavery contract, men don’t gain the same sort of social credibility from being strong family men (who may or may not dally on the side but definitely could if they wanted because “excess” women weren’t so big headed back in the day) that they do from being free and eligible.

    So if you find a young woman who is cool with you being a regular guy, it’s likely that she’s a bit old fashioned, and you should behave like an old fashioned guy who isn’t afraid to be in charge. It’s a lot of responsibility, but then so is being the woman. Don’t make her have to be both the man and the woman in the relationship.

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  91. on April 14, 2011 at 2:01 pm d

    The best women to bed are 18 to 23 and then 40 plus.

    In between 23 and 40, a woman is still subconsciously looking a husband / provider.

    Older women are great to date for sex because many times they have been married or widowed and just want some sex and a date.

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  92. on April 14, 2011 at 2:13 pm Insight

    Question – does this prove that older women need less game, or want less game?

    IOW, does game actually repel/work to lessen attraction in older women?

    And no, I have no practical application of this knowledge, since not attracting older women isn’t really something most folks on this forum ruminate on.

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  93. on April 14, 2011 at 2:26 pm GeorgeFox

    I have been feeling happy lately – after many years things may have turned around for me financially. Because of poisoning by my ex-wife, I have been on testosterone supplements for many years. Feeling happy, I have been losing a lot of weight, put on during years of fighting, which I largely won. I was put on a blood pressure medication and it had had the rare side effect of making me laid back – no borderline OCD – even though I am still a Type A personality.

    I have read your posts for at least and year and decided to put them into effect – devil may care style – David standing position – determined gait, etc. Albeit I did not have much confidence that they would be successful. I tried them during the last 2 days. The first time I drove a decent car, but had not shaven for a couple of days and was in a long sleeve shirt and some trousers. The second time I wore a suit.

    I do not know whether this will continue to have effect or not, but I went to a restaurant and I was mobbed by waitresses. I went to an electric goods store the following day, in a suit, and shopgirl walked across the floor to introduce herself and claim to recognize me from somewhere else. I am in my early fifties, I am a professional and I am overweight. This has never happened to me in my life before. None of these girls was over 25, more likely 22. I was utterly shocked.

    I have not sought to convert any of these leads. I am not really interested in doing so, as I plan to leave the country soon and I am not a person who wants a string of one night stands.

    But what I do think is that your material is correct, but at day’s end, you have to feel right about yourself, before you can succeed with women OR you have to be a tremendous actor. But feeling right about yourself is feeling empowered as a man and acting as a powerful man. It requires decisiveness and determination and supreme confidence. You cannot treat women as your friends, if you want more.

    I said to the lass who walked over to meet me that I was sure I would have remembered her, if I had met her previously, as she was “moderately attractive”. She was just more driven to try to impress me. She mentioned how she now no longer worked on Friday nights, so I said that she was free to go out on Thursdays, which she then confirmed. I then decided to neg her again and said that she must be overwhelmed by lots of attractive offers. She looked down in coquettish embarrassment and smiled. I thanked her and returned to the male shop assistant who looked utterly non-plussed.

    In my entire life, before I read your column, I would never have spoken to a women this way. Let alone one young enough to be my daughter. I am nothing short of amazed. I frankly thought that your idea that women would approach me would be a laugh. If I had known this as a young man, my life would have been materially different. It is a bit like watching “Back to The Future” and seeing the difference that is made when Marty McFly’s pop gets self-confidence.

    At bottom, you cannot lead anyone, if you cannot lead yourself.

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  94. on April 14, 2011 at 2:32 pm Insight

    @GeorgeFox

    “Because of poisoning by my ex-wife, I have been on testosterone supplements for many years.”

    Without meaning to pry, I would be curious if you could explain this a little more. Did she physically poison you? With what?

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  95. on April 14, 2011 at 2:37 pm Rarfy

    So if you’re looking to date women in their mid- to late-40s, what do you do?

    [Editor: Show up. Ha haaw!]

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  96. on April 14, 2011 at 2:44 pm pimpan

    @Dj: It is pretty ridiculous the standards TO women have. The bitterness is through the roof. We’re too socialist, not enough real problems to worry about.

    I used to think I bought in to the whole female empowerment bs at my own expense, but the fact that these women are so bitter means they bought into it too. What’s the upshot of female empowerment? Bitter women.

    Classic resource problem: Where are all the strong men going to come from to be “equals” to these women, when they’re being raised by “strong women”? Way to look one step ahead.

    LikeLike


  97. on April 14, 2011 at 2:44 pm Firepower

    [Editor: That’s not the relevant variable in steele’s buffoonery.]

    Enlighten me. What is the relevant variable. If it’s too off-topic, it would make an interesting trip back to Ye Olden Tymes.

    I have not read R. Don in years, so I am not familiar with which mpuag is in. I do know, that it cannot be Steele, due to his generation.

    RedEmperor

    Firepower,

    It disqualifies him from posing as an expert on shtupping young ladies. Like a guy on welfare presenting lectures on Make Millions Today

    You’re sort of vague on his alleged crimes of disqualification. Is it his PO Box gook, or his just being fed up with the social niceties of having to feign listening to hot 20 year-olds before you fuck her.

    I mean, that shit is the epitome of a soul-sucking vortex of stupid.

    LikeLike


  98. on April 14, 2011 at 2:47 pm Firepower

    Rarfy

    So if you’re looking to date women in their mid- to late-40s, what do you do?

    Masturbate.
    unceasingly.
    to not R. Don but
    to Riley Steele…

    (pun intended)

    LikeLike


  99. on April 14, 2011 at 3:04 pm Anonymous

    Has anyone read the book “A Hero of Our time” by Mikhail Lermontov? Very interesting read, the main character employs aloof and asshole game to seduce a princess, etc

    LikeLike


  100. on April 14, 2011 at 3:05 pm Tyrone

    @Eric:

    Read “The Garbage Generation” by Daniel Amneus and you will see what I mean by my statement.

    LikeLike


  101. on April 14, 2011 at 3:06 pm Firepower

    Russians disdain princesses
    because they killed
    all of theirs

    LikeLike


  102. on April 14, 2011 at 3:10 pm Firepower

    Respectfully,
    ANY book recommendations intended to “enlighten” the masses is superfluous after the mass appeal and media bombardment of Fight Club.

    The book – NOT the movie.
    I’d bet 25% or less of the mpuag forum sycophants READ the BOOK.

    So, requiring a bookreading to inspire some sort of nebulous action from a group already inundated with media is a fantasy.

    If Fight Club didn’t do it – nothing will.

    LikeLike


  103. on April 14, 2011 at 3:20 pm Bad Women | Sibling of Daedalus

    […] a blog far, far away, commenter Red Emperor […]

    LikeLike


  104. on April 14, 2011 at 3:28 pm John Sharp

    @quetal Thanks for posting my link up.

    “something else that might interest you
    “New research shows that, for every husband pursuing affairs online, there are more than three wives”
    http://manvsdate.com/dating-dead/”

    What are some of your favorite sites to visit on woman and dating?

    @infi I couldn’t watch more then 30 seconds of that video. Those men look like they are in deep pain, harbor strong resentment and have an air of brokenness to them.

    LikeLike


  105. on April 14, 2011 at 3:28 pm todd

    this book was written 100 years before that happened my friend.
    Here is a quote

    “There’s nothing more paradoxical than the female mind, and you can never convince a woman of anything – you have to arrange matters so that they convince themselves” -Mikhail Lermontov, “Hero of Our Time”

    and for good measure…

    “The less we love her when we woo her,
    The more we draw a woman in,
    And thus more surely we undo her
    Within the witching webs we spin.” – Pushkin

    “Game” is nothing new

    LikeLike


  106. on April 14, 2011 at 3:46 pm Firepower

    todd

    “Game” is nothing new

    To the illiterate –
    everything is new

    LikeLike


  107. on April 14, 2011 at 4:12 pm RedEmperor

    Firepower,

    It’s his choice of bride: He’s demonstrated a signal failure to practice what he preaches. And George Sodini was using his books and look where that got him

    LikeLike


  108. on April 14, 2011 at 4:52 pm chi-town

    “So if you’re looking to date women in their mid- to late-40s, what do you do?”

    With the cost of fuel these days , show-up game is tougher than ever. I suggest ideal air pressure, smooth acceleration and coasting to stop lights.

    LikeLike


  109. on April 14, 2011 at 5:27 pm greenlander

    With the cost of fuel these days , show-up game is tougher than ever. I suggest ideal air pressure, smooth acceleration and coasting to stop lights.

    I have a better idea. Text her “bring the movies.” Let her pay for the movies and the gas, and then pound her twenty different ways.

    If you’re into mid-to-late 40s girls, that is. But why would you be?

    LikeLike


  110. on April 14, 2011 at 5:46 pm AfroEuro

    To a neutral observer, it looks like this Game theory is teaching men how to become the male version of that which they hate…and love

    Is that an apt summary, or am I missing something?

    LikeLike


  111. on April 14, 2011 at 6:14 pm Dalrock

    @AfroEuro

    Game is about teaching men to give women what women want (not what men would want if they were women, or what women think they want). When they do that, women reward them with sex.

    LikeLike


  112. on April 14, 2011 at 6:42 pm tjuan

    The thoughtful emails declaring interest did not contain a dominate frame, while the cocky ones did. There is an incomparable difference when approaching women from a dominate frame rather than one from “equality”. Equality is responded to with indifference while dominance is rewarded with interest; indifference is evolution’s way of weeding out the meek.

    LikeLike


  113. on April 14, 2011 at 7:40 pm Moneypenny

    Guys, you actually want to seduce 18 year old high school girls? I think I just threw up in my mouth.

    LikeLike


  114. on April 14, 2011 at 7:47 pm d

    Moneypenny,

    your joking right ?? You mean 18 year old high school girls who are routinely banging college guys, NFL quartebacks (see Marc Sanchez Jets), whore are routinely more sexually experienced than the men their age ???

    Let me guess – another feminazi who dislikes the idea that men like young nubile women and that young nubile women just happen to love men older than they are. Take a hike please.

    PS: I personally prefer older women for sex although they are never as good looking as 18-23. Older women have more experience and are more confortable with their bodies.

    I have found that 37-45 to be the best sexually

    LikeLike


  115. on April 14, 2011 at 8:34 pm greenlander

    I have found that 37-45 to be the best sexually

    Dude, that’s vile! You really put your dick into something that old? Do you even bother to clean out the cobwebs first?

    LikeLike


  116. on April 14, 2011 at 8:56 pm Anonymous

    Oh, they won’t yell
    And they won’t tell
    And they’re greatful as hell
    So give me an older women every time!
    –Benny Hill

    LikeLike


  117. on April 14, 2011 at 9:06 pm Jack

    WOw, way too many guys here who like old chicks. What’s wrong with you people?

    My problem is usually the initial approach. Starting a convo, and she’s indifferent, not really interested, giving short answers, etc. What do I do in this circumstance? I can’t even get to the point where I can use game principles because I don’t know what to do to get the attraction rolling at first.

    LikeLike


  118. on April 14, 2011 at 9:28 pm what

    For those who said they like sex with older women…you are the REAL alphas. You are not afraid to go on this blog and go against the majority. Respect respect.

    LikeLike


  119. on April 14, 2011 at 9:49 pm Tim

    @what

    you’re normally kind of feisty; it’s unusual to see a comment by you unadorned with an ! mark. please respond with an ! mark.

    LikeLike


  120. on April 14, 2011 at 10:20 pm DeeezNuts

    Experienced older women have the most skills but loose pussy really sucks.

    LikeLike


  121. on April 15, 2011 at 12:01 am D

    And how old are Angelina Jolie and Jennifer Aniston right now?

    Or are they too old?

    Who was it that observed that youth was truly wasted on the young? Any man looking down his nose at a Jolie or an Aniston… well, whatever.

    LikeLike


  122. on April 15, 2011 at 1:14 am entropy

    Old women/ cougars are great for practicing sex and testing out your game routines … before moving on to the big leagues!

    LikeLike


  123. on April 15, 2011 at 8:03 am The LP 999

    Great post. Always interesting reading.

    Jerks and a-holes are hilarious, entertaining and always have something to say. Non-a-holes could be jerks if they wanted to, they simply want to avoid it or don’t have it in them. No big deal.

    Either way, men are reliably the funnier sex. Unless its a hippie herb, aging baby boomer or a overweight man, most somewhat good looking to very good looking men can pull the jerk routine off with ease.

    And I sit back and enjoy their silliness, jokes, stories, whatever. It is fun.

    LikeLike


  124. on April 15, 2011 at 10:26 am d

    Older women are far superior sexually.

    They are usually past the stage of subconsciously looking for a provider. As such, they have sex for the pure fun of it.

    They have superior emotional maturity at that point.

    Nothing give you a boner like 18-25 year old. I concede this.

    But after banging enough women, its clear – the older are a far superior experience.

    Its a shame that time is so brutal on most women physically.

    LikeLike


  125. on April 15, 2011 at 11:21 am itsme

    moneypenny,

    Guys, you actually want to seduce 18 year old high school girls

    so you were still in high school when you were 18?

    explains quite a bit…

    LikeLike


  126. on April 15, 2011 at 11:24 am chi-town

    Its really just the continuum of the value based exchange. The assumption here is that one wants higher value, but classic romantic routines is the tool to raise the value of the woman and/or decrease the value of the man into that sweet spot that women seek which is the best they can get for a long duration. The best spot for success is a plausible higher status and not too far beyond.

    Many men don’t go for 10s because they figure they have no chance. Women are no different. If you are too high value in their eyes, they will assume a pump and dump.

    There really is nothing inherently wrong with romantic gestures. If, for example, you have a thing for a Mexican or Polish chambermaid while you are solidly a member of the first world, that is the move.

    That is the only case I would “game” from a high value position for the average man. Why the hell do I want an older woman whose status suffers from age rather than a young one in low status exile?

    So in reality its not that older women need to be gamed less. Its just that the status has shifted. I believe a 50 year old crone would still need to be gamed hard by a bed ridden 90 year old man. If you pay attention, 50 year old women are still very much desired, albeit this dynamic occurs during visits to the VA hospitals and nursing homes.

    LikeLike


  127. on April 15, 2011 at 12:21 pm Moneypenny

    You guys are so defensive, it’s hilarious.

    Yes, I was in high school, or secondary school here in England until I was 18 and 4 months before I went to university. Need any more clarification?

    LikeLike


  128. on April 15, 2011 at 12:40 pm chi-town

    “My problem is usually the initial approach. Starting a convo, and she’s indifferent, not really interested, giving short answers, etc. What do I do in this circumstance? I can’t even get to the point where I can use game principles because I don’t know what to do to get the attraction rolling at first.”

    That is what screwed me from being a natural alpha the most. When ever I was in, I was in rather well. The equivalent of crossing of the Sahara or the Bering straight into these new environments is really the main thing at issue. The best way to handle this to start with a crutch is the ugly out going girls who reel them in for her better looking friends. Befriend them first. I saw this pattern many years ago naturally. You just need to nudge along this natural process. I took special note of a desirable jock type man with a cute room mate of this out going girl I met. The story was that she had introduced them to each other.

    It was then I took another head into the trophy room of this accidental sport of capturing life’s bitter cruelty.

    Consider my situation before I realized this. I often had my pick of the better women in the group when I was in the group. More often than not, the group was inadequate. Sometimes I was in no group at all.

    LikeLike


  129. on April 15, 2011 at 1:06 pm Powers

    Thank you team Chateau. If an older woman still gets lots of attention (say she is a former model with an amazing body who dresses flirtatiously), how hard would you game her? In other words, do you think the issue with older women is lack of attention, or a desire to be provided for regardless of her attention level, or something else?

    LikeLike


  130. on April 15, 2011 at 1:10 pm Firepower

    SOCK PUPPET ALERT #394.b

    LikeLike


  131. on April 15, 2011 at 1:11 pm Firepower

    …make that a
    Sock Pup-ette

    LikeLike


  132. on April 15, 2011 at 3:44 pm sefpyu

    Cauthon:

    Your suggestion that an older woman’s different reaction to men may be better understood by considering the supply side rather than the demand side is a good one, but you’ve had only the sound of crickets in response.

    I commented elsewhere a while ago:

    “I was raised to think that women and men are pretty much the same, apart from the bumps. I’ve taken the red pill, or at least read and understood the package. I’m now heading once more into the breach. Once more. A woman roughly my age, say, 45-55, who isn’t looking to find a man who will invest in their children and give her sons who will disperse her genes widely, may not respond as younger women apparently do to being treated with, e.g., amused indifference, etc. Do shit tests decline after menopause?

    “Roughly, I’d rather not start treating women like crap at the precise moment they turn into human beings. If they do.”

    Your idea that a woman has biological incentives to respond to Dad qualities after her fertility declines is probably right, since only women of declining fertility who have already had children are biologically relevant. The natural reactions of older women who have no children should be governed by the biological incentives of those who do.

    Any other thoughts?

    LikeLike


  133. on April 15, 2011 at 4:25 pm Jack

    Chitown – so basically befriending more outgoing girls and using social circle game, showing them that you’re not just interested sexually? (I don’t know many unattractive, outgoing girls.)

    LikeLike


  134. on April 15, 2011 at 5:00 pm chi-town

    @Jack

    You certainly need to be in their presence, but I have seen this happen like the Sun rising from the east. You do have to generate some interest; but when you do, she is going to bring you into the circle. You then have preselection and then a bit of reticence works fine. Its usually better to be with any girl than none at all. You will also get a feel for being high value and how you would naturally act around girls that consider you as such. You may be shocked to discover the difference in behavior and body language.

    LikeLike


  135. on April 15, 2011 at 6:04 pm Tinderbox

    The problem with older women isn’t really the wrinkles nor is it the attitude, instead it’s the floppy pussy that looks like a room temperature pastrami sandwich.

    Vaginal rejuvenation + Kegel exercises = FTW.

    LikeLike


  136. on April 15, 2011 at 7:24 pm anon

    http://xkcd.com/314/

    LikeLike


  137. on April 16, 2011 at 2:46 am xsplat

    d

    Older women are far superior sexually.

    Ya, right. And older men are superior soccer, football and hockey players.

    You can get some savant 17 kid playing in wimbleton. Don’t fool yourself in thinking that maturity is a plus in a physical sport where it’s all down to innate talent and enthusiasm.

    Some people are born gifted at the piano, some a racket sports, and some at fucking.

    One of my best lays was 48. And another was 21. Correlation does not equal causation. The 48 year old was a great lay her whole life.

    LikeLike


  138. on April 16, 2011 at 1:49 pm Mats

    The notion that girls go for jerks bkz they want to “norture them” is bogus. What kind of evidence they have for that?

    In fact, if that is the case, the no-game males need much more norturing.

    I mean, they don’t get game, so they must feel very sad and lonely. Who more than they need “norture”?

    Nonsence.

    [Editor: I agree. Chicks dig jerks because they are devil-may-care dominant, not because they are “broken”.
    And if “norture” is supposed to be a sly pun on the torture that is a part of nurturing, then I tip my hat to you.]

    LikeLike


  139. on April 16, 2011 at 3:23 pm Obstinance Works

    Great take CR. No need to comment on the commenters who always seem to dilute the orginal point. The Master has spoken.

    LikeLike


  140. on April 16, 2011 at 3:31 pm d

    Correlation does not equal causation …granted.

    But there is always something to say for experience.

    All things being equal, the veteran player (a few years experience) is superior to rookies and juniors.

    Talent and enthusiasm can be innate …granted.

    But with experience talent and enthusiasm can produce an even greater result.

    Typically, a rookie phenom is even better with experience.

    Sex, unlike the sports you mention doesn’t require a sharp explosive athleticism that only those in their 20 can do. So many years of experience will typically produce a superior result. Much of it has to do with technique and confidence. This is true among those with natural talent and enthusiasm and those without.

    On the average, older women are far superior sexually.

    LikeLike


  141. on April 16, 2011 at 3:33 pm d

    I don’t think we should dignify the statement of any female trying to explain why they like jerks.

    Chick logic short circuits on the issue.

    LikeLike


  142. on April 16, 2011 at 11:05 pm old guy

    @Firepower

    “Russians disdain princesses
    because they killed
    all of theirs”

    Could be the other way around.

    LikeLike


  143. on April 16, 2011 at 11:27 pm Anonymous

    Off-topic, but here’s some quality man-tertainment… a Russian emigre enjoying life w/ 2nd Amendment disposes of jacked-up Xbox.

    LikeLike


  144. on April 17, 2011 at 12:01 am xsplat

    But there is always something to say for experience…
    On the average, older women are far superior sexually.

    This has not been my experience.

    For me the best sex is with the girls who are the most orgasmic. That 48 year old I mentioned was famed for being a multiple orgasm squirter. Even though she was a bit of a starfish, her intense bed soaking pleasure and orgasmic stamina was olympic class.

    Not all girls have a big enough g spot to come like that. You are either born with it, or not. You don’t grow it with age.

    Any 21 year old girl can be trained up in short order. It doesn’t take 40 years of fucking to learn how to open your heart and mind and sexual energies. A good lover can transform a girl sexually somewhat within one fuck, and wholesale within 6 months. Six months is all it takes to completely own her soul, and have her be conditioned to respond with sensuality, sexuality, and obedience in all ways.

    The myth that girls don’t come into their sexuality fully until mid thirties is only a cougar ploy. The reality is that many women don’t get properly fucked until their mid thirties. But a guy who can properly fuck will bring a 19 year old to sexual maturity in short order.

    LikeLike


  145. on April 17, 2011 at 5:15 am Linkage is Good for You: Fun in the Sun Edition

    […] – “Spin Spin, Hamster!“, “Science Confirms Another Game Concept: Older Women Need Less Game“, “A Bedroom Finishing […]

    LikeLike


  146. on April 17, 2011 at 11:12 am Separating Solipsistic Hedonism from The Alpha Male: Revisited « Reality Snaps Back: Embracing Reality, 1 Truth at a Time

    […] how having meaningless sex and pandering to women’s interests (and yes, it is pandering as Dalrock ratifies my beliefs) will somehow add meaning to a person’s life, and why people even bother having sex with […]

    LikeLike


  147. on April 17, 2011 at 2:50 pm Black

    who you calling a jerk??? Or an asshole???

    I dont now label myself that, so i was wondering why an aloof alpha would be labeled as such. Is it away to put a negative stigma on a male that would emphasize high mate value?

    What would justify that? I tell women i am not into commitment at this time, i am into my businesses and traveling. I dont take shit tests, i dont have a cell phone, (in the U.S. At least), i dont disrepect them, but at the same time won’t listen to them blabber on about work, drama or tv crap.

    But they love my energy, confidence, aloofness and the way i tease.
    So wy am i a jerk? Or asshole?
    I hear them call me that cause the spoiled brats xant have thier way or change me, though they keep coming back.

    So why are we classified that way and describe ourself luke that?

    There are guys beating woman, stealing their money, stalking them, i think the label fits them best!

    LikeLike


  148. on April 17, 2011 at 3:05 pm Black

    Also is crap about a woman seeks an alpha male to make him better, is false. Since when has a woman thought about making another person better over her own selfish wants. YEA right!!!

    They are attracted to what they cant control, then try to change and tame to control in order to keep.

    Broken my ass!! I am not broken

    There is no such talk, even editor you said it wrong. A woman cant make me better, i think we can come together to create a better or great situation. But i would have to want that, thus it is within me.

    When a man gets married and is part of a family it is a plus to society, but both parties have to be willing to come together and create a positive contribution. Not this i fix u, or i make u better crap.

    LikeLike


  149. on April 17, 2011 at 6:15 pm Foreigner

    I’m just don’t get the “matron-vixen line”. I’m Brazilian, could someone clear that up?

    LikeLike


  150. on April 17, 2011 at 8:50 pm namae nanka

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mason%E2%80%93Dixon_Line

    LikeLike


  151. on April 18, 2011 at 11:00 am Gorbachev

    We need to test the scientific basis for the Pivot.

    In Korea now; I happen to walk into a place with the hottest chick in the room; virtually every single female eye follows her, but mostly me.

    I’ve got IOIs from almost every single female in the room. I make a point of talking to married women there with their husbands. They’re more solicitous than usual, more friendly. Not open to being picked up, but much more friendly.

    Three single women, towards the end of the night, one opens up like a flower as I chat. My date wanders off, fending off the leopards and the leeches swarming around her.

    I walk by, touch her on the elbow, nod, hand her a drink, move on. Casual and dismissive yet with the barest hint of acknowledgment.

    I swear, I could nearly hear the heart of the woman I’d been talking to beating from ten feet away.

    Someone has to measure this principle. It needs to be tested. I’ve seen no studies documenting this, but it’s so real it’s palpable.

    I’ll put even money on me having been able to walk out of this thing with the prettier of the available women.

    Pivoting. We need studies to study this.

    LikeLike


  152. on April 18, 2011 at 4:35 pm Bounder

    Gorb,

    I’m almost certain I’ve read a study confirming the efficacy of pivots.

    Give me a few days to find it, I’m slammed right now.

    LikeLike


  153. on April 19, 2011 at 7:19 pm Mouse

    @Foreigner
    I think it’s a play on the term “Mason-Dixon line” which refers to the division in the United States between the North and the South during the US Civil War.

    LikeLike


  154. on May 14, 2011 at 11:12 pm Gabe Asher

    I would prefer a teenage 5, than a 35 year old woman who is a 9 or 10. Goes without saying.

    LikeLike


  155. on May 14, 2011 at 11:38 pm Anonymous

    Gabe Asher

    I would prefer a teenage 5, than a 35 year old woman who is a 9 or 10. Goes without saying.

    I hear ya, but the way most of us do it is to adjust the numbers accordingly. If she’s 35, she’s not a 10.

    LikeLike


  156. on May 19, 2011 at 5:16 pm pussy control

    @ Anthony

    “pumped and dumped” by a “high value man. ”

    These terms are mutually exclusive.

    [Editor: High value doesn’t mean what you think it means.]

    LikeLike



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