Many of the commenters here have a good grasp of game concepts. Some of you give excellent answers to game tests that the Chateau occasionally throws your way, showing a fluency with the fundamental psychological techniques that lead to better relations with women. However, understanding the concepts is not the same as properly executing them in the field. You can read all the game manuals you want, but if you don’t get out there and apply the tactics until you start to feel comfortable using them and, more importantly, until you start to *sound normal* using them, you are like the professor who’s respected in the classroom but mistaken for a bumbling homeless man in the real world.
A glaring example of this disconnect between concept and execution are the turgid, wordy replies that more than a few commenters offer as suggestions for passing particular shit tests and the like. Superficially, they comprehend the principles at play, but something gets lost in the translation. Just ask yourself when you write your comment whether any actual alpha male talks like that in the real world. Most of the time, the answer you will have to concede to yourself is… no.
This is why I strongly counsel readers to adopt a natural as a mentor. Books and manuals are one thing, but seeing it done in live action by someone who knows his stuff will rapidly boost your progress as a ladykiller. Personally, I’ve learned about 30% of what I know from books, forums and videos, and 70% from personal experience and from hanging out with men who were good with women. Note: these friends weren’t teachers; I was just a very observant lad growing up.
Wordiness and stilted language seems to be a big stumbling block for a lot of smart, presumably borderline nerdy, men who comment here. You write your examples of conversational snippets as if you were reading from an electronics manual or, worse, a clip from a James Bond movie left on the cutting room floor. I suspect this is the reason a lot of intelligent noobs to the game get shot down in the beginning — women are a little bit weirded out by the staccato rhythms and debate team formality of their speech. These guys aren’t losing points on the technicals; they’re losing points on style.
So, a word of advice: succinctness is the soul of cool.
Get out of your head, stop trying to formulate your sentences with the perfectionist’s eye toward proper grammar and logic, and start learning to get comfortable speaking with slangy informality. For examples of good game lines delivered with the right mix of attitude, concept and style, see any comment by el chief or el guapo. (If I left any of you out, don’t be offended. I’m too lazy to recall all of the outstanding commenters.)
I force myself to STFU by squeezing my fingers, biting my tongue, whatever… just don’t babble out of f-in nervousness or excitement. curb your enthusiasm. Never be repetitious or drag out your good joke.
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You ain’t kidding. My social tribe is scientists, engineers, and writers – we could easily use such fancy words as “hypothesis” or “joie de vivre” in any conversation. This is bad for being inclusive and easy going, much less for game.
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The other problem is that in a noisy venue, people are doing a lot of guesswork to piece together what you’re saying, and no matter how witty your comment, it goes down the toilet when the girl just replies “What?”.
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Anthony Hopkins is notorious for memorizing lines and practicing it, until he can deliver it naturally & perfectly the first time.
I noticed that every natural is a great actor and has a fake it until you make it aura. Worked for me when I lost my cherry at 15.
The only handicap I experience is the cold calculating cost benefit ratio equation that I apply to every girl. My standards tend to get really picky and high because of this. I don’t even acknowledge 7 or below without a tier 1 education in case she gets pregnant.
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@The_King
“Anthony Hopkins is notorious for memorizing lines and practicing it, until he can deliver it naturally & perfectly the first time. ”
Hahaha!
Practicing it until you get it perfect the first time.
Reminds me of Churchill, when called upon to make
an impromptu speech. Afterwords, somebody
complimented him privately for the great speech.
“Yes, it was good, but that’s because I re-wrote
it five times”.
Nothing succeeds like sincerity,. Once you can fake that,
you’ve got it made.
Thor
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i’m trying to imagine christopher walken as a pua
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Nothing wrong with being intellectual, its just not very seductive. Women say all the time how they like smart guys, but that can mean not as stupid as they are. Its really the same thing I tell women about their careers. Good for you, but it is not a horse in the stable of attraction.
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Brevity is the soul of wit.
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word
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I like to discuss the earlier rounds of the Linares Chess tournaments with hot women since they tend to be more tactically interesting than the later rounds which seem to become more strategic and subtle. I’d hate to bore them.
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And too much fiber is the soul of shit
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“Brevity is the soul of wit.”
Eyes express the wit of the soul.
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but I thought you said there is no soul
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As a writer, I resemble this. OTOH, so did the original comment, which could have been 1/2 as long and said the same thing.
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This is true. But verbosity or intelligence is not the problem- eloquence and smarts can be attractive. Usually are, actually. (Depending on context.) Confidence, being comfortable in your own skin and congruence with your inner self are the keys. The main mistake I have seen with Internet-jockey dudes starting with game is that they put on the attitude and routines like a suit of clothes that doesn’t really fit who they are- so they come across as phony, not just spitting out stilted lines.
That said, it’s true that brevity is the soul of wit and that in the initial approaches and attraction stage, it’s better to speak less than more- to maintain mystery and keep her interest held.
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More likely they have low testosterone game is completely irrelevant because no woman will ever want anything to do with them. this is the real reason ugly or fat dudes can succeed no problem. testosterone is the primary female attractor. If u have low t Ur SOL
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Game fail in the comics: Menage a 3.
“I’m making popcorn. Please continue.”
or
[throws pot of cold water on cat fight]
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this is why i’m going to stop blogging. i don’t have anything inciteful to say. you have described me to a point. i feel like i understand exactly what i’m doing off of a handful of success stories and lots of reading material, but that doesn’t necessarily qualify me to start writing for the masses. I could give useful advice to another dude, i’m sure, but it isn’t always witty, concise and useful like Chateau posts. The manosphere has helped grow my sack, but i can’t stay attached to it like fungus. roosh, ricky raw, chateau, in mala fide and obvious others get a pass in my book as the saints they are, the rest of us suck on the manosphere teet rather than scale the mountain for ourselves.
i knew i needed to stop when i couldnt think up anything to write beyond personal experience. besides, the most interesting blogs are blogs like yours roissy, but that is because it makes the art and science of seduction readily decipherable by the masses. This is why brevity is the soul of wit etc. i figured out that if i want to be a truly charming bastard, i need to dive deeper into the science of real life. this means more personal experience in the field, but also a better grasp of the field itself. it is my duty not to report back until i have game changing platitudes to spout off. though i will stay a faithful reader and commenter.
my first inkling of this feeling came when i realized that i check my favorite blogs every day like a schoolgirl waiting for a fb update. often times, the best ones are the laziest and most hidden, taking weeks to respond. thats because they are too busy fucking girls in real life to write some shit down.
WHOOOOOOOS THAAA BEEEEIIIICHHHH NOOOOW?
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That’s exactly what happens to me, i have studied game and generally i agree with most of it, given what i have observed.
The problem is that there is a big difference between knowing why it works and actually implementing it, i think the later is more of much practice, which if you have a limited social circle of like-minded people, how can you practice?
My main problem is that i tend to be very logical and formal in my communication, in my profession generally this is not a problem, even i would say benefical, but i have noticed that it tends to repel girls quicly, anyway still trying to “overcome” this.
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El chief I think is the one that responded to a girl’s dramatic email breakup with one word, “Gay.” I thought that was really funny and it would have totally made me want to get him back.
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chi-town…
That’s not quite it.
Women can only calibrate smarts so far.
(Social proof goes a long way, don’t take it any further.)
Actually demonstrating very high intelligence in a conversation causes such a man to zoom way over their heads — particularly in a hook-up scene.
All too quickly the conversation devolves into a monologue — because she can’t make ANY contribution.
The hamster concludes that you’re no fun to be with — anti-social, even.
——
Nerds rocket into Beta orbit for this very reason.
——
It’s MUCH better to be a man of mystery who the female must pump and pump to get any intel.
This gets them to lubricate their first stage sex-organ — their mouth — into high gear.
The more a babe is permitted to talk — unopposed — the more the hamster figures that you’re a workable dude; as in we can have a solid relationship — for at least the evening.
Then all that is necessary is to firm things up.
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Lmao at the long low test nerd replies to a topic dedicated to stopping them. roissy thank u for making this post because I am so sick of these beta comments clogging things up. its a blog comment not an epic Greek poem. get a journal u sissies nobody else wants to read Ur internal monologue
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“In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they are not.” -Lawrence Peter Berra
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natural as mentor is a great idea. i thought i was hot shit until i met a co-worker who basically fucked any girl any time and still had a girlfriend. dude has made my jaw drop open too many times off the shit he says that works.
as reagan said “trust but verify”
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The_King said:
“Anthony Hopkins is notorious for memorizing lines and practicing it, until he can deliver it naturally & perfectly the first time.
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Funny this was posted today. I just got back from the gym, pouring rain outside, I’m waiting by the door hoping it will die down so I won’t be soaked going to my car. A pretty nice looking employee of the gym (works in the kid-sitting area, seeing one of the fitness counselors I think) walks by me and flirtingly says “It isn’t going to stop.”
What do I do? I fumble around in my head for some “cocky-funny” reply and when she’s halfway out the door I blurt out in an unconvincing voice “It will for me!”
Wanted to kick myself afterwards.
[Editor:
“It isn’t going to stop.”
“Your flirting?”
This gives her an opportunity to carry the convo forward.]
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Good post. Execution is my Achilles heal. Actually, there was a post on this blog a few months ago about using everyday opportunities to practice. The example given was in a grocery store, and several possible conversation starters were listed.
Well, this is my problem – I can start a conversation in a grocery store or a bookstore or whatever, but then I can’t convert that into anything more. So, as you say in this post, I know the theory but I fail on execution.
For example, I got in line behind a cutie and made a comment. She laughed and replied, then there were like two more sentences exchanged between us and she was up to the register, she paid, and she’s gone.
I’m lost. After an initial back and forth in that situation, what do you do?
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@blert
I remember this guy in a social mixer who was talking to me about hydrogenation and peanut butter. Mind you this was well before trans fat became a pariah. These days it might find some relevance to some girl friendly fad diet. Then it would be like talking about polymerization. Now isn’t that just fascinating?
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Contribution to the “geek epic.”
Yes, too much info is “overwhelming,” especially for noobs. That’s where this post started…
…the post moved into “wordiness.” Which is a different point, but can be tested by the same theory:
— go practice
If you kill it with long windedness, you’ll probably keep that up. And if you’re killing it… why change? Why worry about “mystery,” when your talk-a-thon is working. Do what works.
But if what you’re doing *isn’t* working… that’s priceless feedback. That’s why practice/implementation is important, it teaches you what works, and what works for you.
— start with giving yourself permission to FAIL
— then take “some knowledge” (any things, doesn’t matter)
— go apply it, fail, and learn
— rinse/repeat
I am obviously a wind-bag, but girls like me anyway. Why? I’ll figure that out w/ more time PRACTICING.
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‘”What do I do? I fumble around in my head for some “cocky-funny” reply and when she’s halfway out the door I blurt out in an unconvincing voice “It will for me!
Wanted to kick myself afterwards.’
The key I think is not what you say, its in not caring what you say. You could say “clowns are in season” or “my rooster likes rain”, “I think my stove pipe is open”. Don’t even bother to explain it.
I read about Steve Martin and he was not really a comedian. He was a smart man who made himself into a comedian through work. He said he got to the point where he could just give a look and people would laugh. It was funny because Steve Martin did it. In the same way its cool because you said it. What it does is let you say things without fear because you have the tools to recover from blunders. It also buys you time.
You will need material eventually, and you always use context first, but remember, newspapers keep feature stories around for when there is no news. At first I think you can say anything if you say it right, and then of course, saying very little can be good.
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Game materials give you the tools to analyze your failures in field and point you in the right direction when trying new things. They are not a substitute for experience.
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So true. What has worked for me is to only say one half
(or quarter) of what I might’ve said in a previous life.
Her: Ohmigawd, what was it like living in (City X)?
Old Me: There were several things I liked about it. The weather, the friendliness of the natives, the food, the proximity to so many natural wonders, blah blah blah.
New Me: It was tits.
I’ve had to beat myself into submission, but it works.
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“I’m lost. After an initial back and forth in that situation, what do you do?”
What you should do depends critically on what you want to happen. Have you formulated your goals as explicitly as you possibly can? Have you sat yourself down and worked at it as though you were going to get paid a cubic butt-tonne of money for doing so, or to receive whatever other kind of reward gets you the most motivated to exceed and excel?
I know very specifically and explicitly what I want from an intimate relationship with a girl. This makes it much easier to calibrate my Game to achieve that end state congruently.
So what do YOU want to happen? The better you know that, the better your Game will become, even without conscious direction.
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Chateau,
You wrote your artical based on the assumption that girls will only fall for guy’s “game”. Don’t you think there are women like me who would fall for a guy’s head instead of “game”? Don’t you think being smart but socially not playboy is actually attractive to some women? Maybe you just haven’t met one
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This must be why those editorial comments inserted into posts feel so beta; not only is the editor unwilling to let a negative comment stand with no response, but the insertion feels like an impulsive interruption.
Alpha: ignoring an insult.
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Also, the problem isn’t being smart, it’s having to show everyone how smart you are.
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Out of all my friends, I have identified the 3 that are the top macks and score like crazy. These guys are naturals from birth.
They are also some of the dumbest friends I have.
Yeah, I’m sure part of reasoning behind that is jealousy, but really, they are not so bright.
I think a problem a lot of smart guys have is that they view any sort of “hard problem” as something very complex.
Building CPU’s, advanced calculus, physics, planetary gearing=hard problems=complex.
Being a ladies men and bedding women at will=hard problem. So they reason that getting girls is very complex as well and tend to over think and over analyze. They fail to realize that they have been over thinking how to make the gina tingle. To quote Rum:
“That which pulls female sexual control levers most forcefully just seems silly and pointless to most men.”
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You are half right. Pretending to be smart is beta. Being smart is the easiest and most natural way to demonstrate higher value. A woman will not sleep with you if she holds you in contempt; she won’t respect you enough to sleep with you unless she perceives you as being her mental equal or superior.
If the girl is more educated than you, or her father is more educated than you, then you can’t pull off smart.
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@Acksiom “What you should do depends critically on what you want to happen. Have you formulated your goals as explicitly as you possibly can?”
Uh well, in the example provided, I’m chatting up a girl in the grocery store. I’ve done this several times and sometimes I feel that the girls are receptive. I’m careful not to be intrusive or pushy or to bother them when they’re busy.
So, I can paraphrase an actual exchange if you like, but suffice to say that I’ve had a nice brief conversation with a girl and got a vibe that she was okay with me. My goal is now to meet her in a social situation.
In the grocery store, or most anywhere else that this happens, I don’t know how to go from whatever joke I was telling to, “hey we should meet up later.” In a bar, I do it all the time. I just say, “hey this place is dead, have you ever been to (name of some other bar)? Let’s go!”
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you know it’s a lot like telling jokes
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Anyone here a poker player or fan? Whether you are or aren’t, everyone that seeks out material on game should read this article written by phil ivey. Yes, it’s about poker, but the point he makes is entirely relevant to this post. For example:
“I’m a firm believer in learning the game by playing the game.”
Again, read this article. I live in my head and it often gets me in trouble out in the field. Adopting phil’s approach is essential.
http://www.fulltiltpoker.com/pro-tip/PhilIvey/125
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http://www.fulltiltpoker.com/pro-tip/PhilIvey/125
If you’re like me you probably don’t read links posted by other commenters, but I STRONGLY urge anyone with an interest in this post to do so. It’s a poker article written by Phil Ivey about how to approach literature on poker strategy. Despite being about poker it’s entirely relevant to game and I refer back to it everytime I find myself overthinking or overblogging game (which admittedly happens too often). Snippet: “I’m a firm believer in learning the game by playing the game.”
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Why write a whole para to convey a point when you can write ONE! 🙂 Flirting is a flicker of flame with the intention of setting a fire!!!! hee! hee! hee!
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You’ve got to personify this:
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[…] original post here: Concept Is Not Execution: The Smart Man's Handicap With Game … Categories: Books, Uncategorized Tags: books, failures, from-hanging, from-personal, […]
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Her: Hey I want you to know that I really appreciate how you think. I can make things complicated in my head and you ground me. Meaning putting my feet on the ground. It’s really nice.
Him: I like ur feet in the air!!!
Ya, that was my girlie assed text to my boyfriend today and his response? Awesome. Can’t get much more succinct than that huh. 😉
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@eric try to close. Maintain eye contact and say “I really enjoyed talking with you, you want to get together sometime?” You’ll get shot down quite a bit, but not always. I’ve made lots of nice connections this way.
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True that–practice, practice, practice.
Game everybody, charm everyone.
Oh, and when looking for a natural to study, it can be helpful if they’re related by blood. Understanding the interplay between genetic tendencies and behavioral connections can really illuminate one’s patters.
So can doing a post-mortem on all previous encounters with women, successful or no. That by itself was a big eye-opener right after I took the red pill. My successes all corroborated and reinforced game principles, and my failures were textbook betatude fumbles.
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Brilliant.
Also, one of the best pieces of advice in here is Just Say Something. Often it’s not a case of saying something brilliant, or witty, but just playing along.
The other night I was at a party. I’m waiting outside the bathroom to go in and whoever’s in there is taking FOREVER.
Finally, the door opens and the girl who had been giving me IOI’s the week prior comes out.
She looks at me surprised.
I say: Everything ok in there? I was going to call 911. I’ve been out here for 25 minutes…
Her: Laughing…come on!
Then…it’s on…
There was some banter, some inane if I wrote it out…but the point of it was that she was into role-playing along.
It wasn’t that hard afterwards to follow up.
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Here’s what NOT to do…
The girl I’m seeing was DJ’ing a party the other night.
Some pathetic older guy who suddenly develops a crush on her comes over to the DJ booth near the end of the night.
I’m there to say goodnight and walk in.
The guy gives her a CD, then his card, then his email….
She thinks of him immediately as “A nice friend” as she put it to me…
When I point out that the guy was trying to game her, she claims that it never occurred to her that way.
I think she’s lying. But also, chicks do have an instant sense of LJBFing a guy and the giving of a CD and his number and asking hers was his kind of lame attempt to game.
He looked more pathetic than suave. She was being “nice” to him….
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You know, I really appreciate this post. I’m a grad student in applied physics. Amongst my type, precision in speech is definitely appreciated.
But, I definitely recognize its downfallings. A common question I get is, “Where is your accent from?” But I have none, AFAIK, I am a born and bred New York City-area type.
However, one of of my friends made an interesting point, once: that I speak in proper grammar, and there’s this certain rhythm I hit I while I’m talking, and that THAT’S what people are probably picking up on. Since it’s so different from how most people talk, it gets picked up on as an “accent”.*
And doubly uncanny with the succinctness thing…my father, who is successful in the Wall Street world, has berated me about that before. Initially I thought he was just being annoying–we do have a strained relationship–but after some self analysis, I did come to realize that I have an an issue distinguishing between “lead-in I consider necessary to properly set up a story” and “lead-in most other people consider necessary to set up a story”.
So I’ve definitely already been trying to work on this, but thanks for the extra kick in the ass on this.
*On the plus side, people tend to think it’s European, and I do know German…and we all know how American girls love European accents.
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Use as many words as you need to say what you want to say, and no more.
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quick quips
remember that rhyme
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@walawala
why would you think she is lying? i’m straight and gay guys come up to me to talk, and i’m “nice” to them. they eventually muster up enough courage to ask, “do u live around here”, or “can i buy u a drink”.
of course, i deny them, but i never give them any inclination on my part that i’m trying to bag em.
At first, i thought they were “just being nice” to me, then i stopped being oblivious.
Now, i simply operate on the fact that if a girl talks to me first, she wants my nuts
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“I’ve done this several times and sometimes I feel that the girls are receptive. I’m careful not to be intrusive or pushy or to bother them when they’re busy.”
I have been reading the fever series, which is romantic porn for girls. When a pua in the story is attempting to pick up the main character, the pua is intrusive, pushy, and charmingly and pleasantly crashes through shit tests that sound like the girl is about to start screaming for the police if he does not back off.
In “bloodfever”, the heroine starts running away from a complete stranger who is trying to pick her up cold. He chases after her, outruns her, she tells him fuck off, and tells him she is not interested, and he then gets a number close while running
Not sure this would work in real life, but “careful to not to be intrusive” definitely does not describe a single one of the idealized alpha males in this romantic girl porn. Their pickups usually verge on assault, sometimes arguably constitute assault and abduction. The main character invariably gives the puas the most savage and brutal shit tests, such as “fuck off, you pervert!”which they smoothly and gracefully handle with quite improbable grace and style.
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Haha..yeah alot of aspies in the comments. Many understand the game but most don’t feel it.
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Me : S, I must go. I’m gonna miss ya. (laid back on a couch in a bar, and said in a monotone)
Her : I’m gonna miss you too.
Me : Come and kiss me.
She turned away, tried to stifle her laugh, failed, tried to act angry, failed, and after trying to regain her composure, failed, she just said :
Her : Oh just go awaaaayyyy !!!
Me : Oooooohhhhh, I will.
It was my most memorable experience trying game. I’m still learning this art.
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@Erik
But it took 5 seconds to see from the body language, the kind of eager look of desperation and the leaning in beta orbiting that this kindly loser was trying to get into my girl’s panties.
Why she didn’t pick up on this or claimed she didn’t is beyond me. When we discussed this later, she said “I’m not so sensitive to these things if the guy is someone in our social circle”.
But doesn’t this defy a lot of what we are learning about women on this blog?
Don’t women ALWAYS know when they’re being hit on?
No guy is just being “nice” when he approaches and offers some unsolicited piece of something.
This guy didn’t neg her. Instead he was supplicating her with CD’s.
He then texted her the next day to ask for lunch.
To which I replied…why did you give this guy your number?
Her reply: I thought he was just being a friend…
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And alpha males use thesauruses to find words like “turgid?”
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James – that’s interesing info about approaching being similar to sexual escalation – no doesn’t mean no.
Approach is my weak point. I rarely do it – I need to be sexless for a month and drunk. And now I no longer drink, and have some girls in my life. When I see that cute girl at the roadside stand, peackocking her high tight bubble but in red jeans, I just walk past, chiding myself.
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Don’t women ALWAYS know when they’re being hit on?
No guy is just being “nice” when he approaches and offers some unsolicited piece of something.
This guy didn’t neg her. Instead he was supplicating her with CD’s.
He then texted her the next day to ask for lunch.
remember the context, though – she was dj’ing and the guy was giving her his cd, and texted her to do lunch the next day. in her conscious mind, she thought this was more about business. this sort of thing does happen in the dj world.
however, i think that on a subconscious level, women always have a sense of what a guy’s intentions are. this guy’s approach was all wrong – too beta, too ‘business’. her subconscious mind sensed this and filed him away under the ‘friends/business contacts’ category.
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In my ever so humble opinion, the DJ chick shouldn’t have given the dude her number. If it was a business thingie she could have taken his and then made sure her boyfriend or someone else in the biz would go to the lunch with her. Not as protection but so the dude didn’t get the wrong idea. Women should not be (and aren’t) that oblivious to the potential of lustful attention. Is she a producer? Would she be able to further this musician’s career, my guess is no.
She claimed she was just being nice, again giving out her number is easily avoided. Having a boyfriend precludes someone from being ‘nice’ to other men. Just sayin’.
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Do you think blogging about game effects your game?
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Where is David Alexander?
Could it be that he is following Roissy’s advice and starting to live?
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@lakerlynx “try to close. Maintain eye contact and say “I really enjoyed talking with you, you want to get together sometime?” ”
I try, but I blow it. Last night at a gas station an older woman (like maybe 35) says, “that looks like it’d be a lot of fun” and I said, “want to go for a ride? – oh, you mean the *car* is fun? Yes, it is. Want to go for a ride?”
She laughed pretty hard, then said she was just getting off work and needed to get home. Then I was at a loss for what to say next. Somehow it felt too pushy to ask her to meet later. Seemed like if she really wanted to, she would have said that instead of just saying she was going home.
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Roissy pointed out parsimony, yay!
It’s not just speaking with brevity, remove your trash language.
“I really like you.” – really is a waste of words, if you mean what you say don’t add emphasis this way. Add it through physical contact or escalation.
Once you start removing the weak language from your conversations, you’ll find you dont have much to say. Which leaves you in the right space to alpha naturally.
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Acting classes are terrific for building confidence for cold-calling, be it a potential customer or a hot girl at a party. Not that it’s going to turn you into anything approaching a decent actor.
But, one, you’ll get over stage fright, and two, you’ll gain an awareness for how words sound, how few words it takes to communicate, how much you communicate with body language, and similarly, how/what the person you’re talking to is communicating.
Improv classes at Second City in Chicago are full of guys with zero interest in acting but who want to improve their work-related people skills. Lots of exercises where you’re paired off with some random classmate and told to act out some situation. Having no idea what your partner will say forces you to get out of your head and really pay attention and then deliver an appropriate unscripted response.
Improv has few rules beyond never saying anything that makes it impossible for your partner to respond.
Which, as has been noted, is a good rule for talking to girls. Never say anything so unanswerable the convo is effectively over (unless that’s your goal). And if you’re doing all the talking, you’re probably unable to hear the sound of her pussy drying up.
Also, improv will forever cure you of thinking you need a repertoire of clever lines to move a convo along. Yeah, they may be things you need to say for the convo to accomplish your purpose. But if you’re really listening, you’ll know when to say something without sweating the actual words. It’ll just feel right.
But having the social intelligence to pay attention to the other person is next to impossible for all the Asberger’s victims here.
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@Eric
“She laughed pretty hard, then said she was just getting off work and needed to get home. Then I was at a loss for what to say next. Somehow it felt too pushy to ask her to meet later. Seemed like if she really wanted to, she would have said that instead of just saying she was going home.”
off the top of my head, i immediately thought to say,
“Maybe i’ll join you”
BS about the “if she really wanted to”
Women for the most part don’t want to be appear as sluts. They know it devalues themselves to the man.
So, if you were waiting for her to say, “come to my house so you can fuck me”, you would be waiting till eternity.
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@walawala
it took YOU 5 seconds. You also read this blog. And, you’re a man. Just like women know when another chick is movin on their man, a guy knows when another guy is moving in on his girl (at least an alpha would).
The more you make this a serious matter, the more insecure you’ll look. The guy was beta as fuck according to you, so what could he possibly do? Write poetry and sing to her outside her window?
Let it go brah
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Via phone
Girl: I could barely hear your voicemail! It took three tries before I knew who it was. Be more professional.
Me: Woops. Next time I’ll have my secretary call instead.
Her (2 hours later): So you want to go to that concert monday night?
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This post directly applied to me today. While in theory, I read alot of game material, but I did not have the in-field experience to pull off what I was saying “naturally.” With that being said, I’ve got a long way to go.
So what happened? I negged her by saying she looked like a babysitter type. There was an obvious disconnect between what I said and how my body language portrayed it. Of course, she didn’t bite.
God damn it.
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Agreed.
When I discovered these sites it was amazing to me how many things were hashed up that I started recognizing as a twelve year-old, when it came to girls. They almost hit you in the face and go “hey! this shit worked then, still works now. tool.” Whether you put into practice, that’s a whole different bag.
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1. “hey, what’s your story?”
/eye contact, square shoulders, cocky smirk throughout
2. Ask follow up question touching on some sensory or emotional aspect of the story
/escalate physical contact
3. When she finishes, “we should go out” or if at bar “let’s dance”
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@eric
First of all, David Rockefeller’s advice about improv classes is GOLD. I don’t know of a better, faster shortcut past social anxiety, ‘blank mind’, and other lack of interpersonal skill resource problems.
That being said, though:
@Acksiom “What you should do depends critically on what you want to happen. Have you formulated your goals as explicitly as you possibly can?”
>My goal is now to meet her in a social situation.
No. I choose not to believe that’s anywhere near as explicit a definition of your goals as you can make.
Again, you need to sit yourself down and work at it as though you were going to get paid a cubic butt-tonne of money for doing so, or to receive whatever other kind of reward gets you the most motivated to exceed and excel.
Remember, the estimate around here for the value of mastering Game is approximately $2,000,000.00. IIRC. I think that’s a fair ballpark estimate; it could range sensibly from a tenth of that to ten times that depending on the guy in question’s assets and vulnerability. But even a skill worth “only” $200,000.00 over the course of a normal lifetime is worth sitting down for half an hour with a sheet of paper and progressively defining one’s intimate relationship goals more and more specifically and explicitly.
>In the grocery store, or most anywhere else that this happens, I don’t know how to go from whatever joke I was telling to, “hey we should meet up later.”
And I’m telling you that the first thing you need to do at this point is specifically and explicitly define your goals. For yourself. Do you want a succession of one-night stands? Do you want a harem? Do you want a wife and kids? And that’s just the starting point.
You’re asking the wrong question for your needs. You’re displaying situational one-itis. You need to go back to MGTOW (Men Going Their Own Way) basics. That’s why I’m telling you to sit down with a blank sheet of paper and start defining your perfect ideal relationship, in as much detail as you can. Stop focusing on “What do I DO next in day Game?” and start focusing on “What do I WANT next in my love life?” instead.
THAT is what YOU DO NEXT.
Stop telling us about specific situations, and start telling yourself about specific goals. You’re asking what tools to use when you don’t even know what you’re trying to build yet.
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@Acksiom, I’ve been married before and I liked it. So my answer is, wife and kids.
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And as I said, that’s just the starting point.
What kind of wife? How many kids? In what community? Remember, marriage is also a contract between a man and woman on one side and a community on the other. For all the bitching and moaning that goes on about women’s rationalization hamsters, one of the major reasons why marriage has gone down the tubes is because the communities are defaulting on their responsibilities to husbands and wives. You don’t just marry a woman and family; you marry the community around wherever you settle, too. Pick that carefully, too.
YET AGAIN, you need to sit yourself down and work at it as though you were going to get paid a cubic butt-tonne of money for doing so, or to receive whatever other kind of reward gets you the most motivated to exceed and excel.
SIT DOWN FOR HALF AN HOUR WITH A SHEET OF PAPER AND PROGRESSIVELY DEFINE YOUR INTIMATE RELATIONSHIP GOALS AS SPECIFICALLY AND EXPLICITLY AS YOU CAN.
You’re dicking me around at this point, because you replied only 20 minutes after I told you to do that. So now I’m righteously pissed, and I don’t want to read another damn word from you that isn’t as specific and explicit a definition of your intimate relationship goals as you could make with $2,000.000.00 at stake.
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Less is more
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What the hell is an “intimate relationship goal”??
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Acksiom’s advice is just basic PNL techniques, really (defining and writing down your outcomes etc). It’s actually common sense: it’s best to be absolutely sure about what you’re doing and why you’re doing it, otherwise you’l probably never get the outcome you expect.
Basic but important stuff.
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Question for all…
I’m getting most of this, have scoured this blog and adapted.
This threat is brilliant, but I have a situation now where when I go out in my social circle with the girl I’m seeing, I’m getting IOI’s from some hotties.
What’s the prescribed or suggested response to a girl you’ve been gaming or who’s giving you IOI’s who asks:
“Is that your girlfriend?”//”Do you have a girlfriend?”
I realize this is a shit-test and pre-selection and mystery are the goal.
But evasiveness especially in one’s social circle seems kind of weak.
The shit test is something like “This guy is hot…he’s with that girl…that’s hot…so I’m going to ask him if they’re together to see what he’d say in case we’re ever together…”
Yes…gina killer
No…weak
Something addressing her flirting…too obvious and not cool.
“It’s complicated”…seems evasive especially when she already knows the answer and wants to see what you’d say.
Any thoughts/suggestions?
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When in doubt, smile and say nothing.
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[…] Chateau – “What Betas Can Learn from Women’s Rape Fantasies“, “Before and After: The Hilarity of Self-Deception“, “Concept is Not Execution: The Smart Man’s Handicap with Game” […]
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Don’t ever tell a girl to SMILE, bitch shield amplifier
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Acksiom: “You’re dicking me around at this point, because you replied only 20 minutes after I told you to do that.”
not intentionally. I’m simply not clear about what you’re asking. You can keep saying “more detail” but that’s too vague, because there’s no limit to it. I can keep giving you detail and you can keep replying the same way – “BUT WHAT WOULD HER NAME BE!” you might yell.
Perhaps if you could provide the analysis you conducted for your own life, then I would understand you.
“What kind of wife?” – for a wife, I want sweet. I want someone that I can imagine as the mother of my children. I’m sure your retort will be, “more detail!!” but I’m not sure how to get more detailed than that.
How many kids?: between one and two inclusive.
In what community?: in a rural community – where I currently live.
“you need to sit yourself down and work at it as though you were going to get paid a cubic butt-tonne of money for doing so”
A big part of the problem, Acksiom, is that I’m not ordering a woman from a catalog. I have to choose from those available, and then I have to be chosen by them. It does me little good to write down that I want a woman who’s fit when the reality is, I’m surrounded by women who have let themselves go – and the minority that are in good shape have higher value men that they prefer. That’s my situation. When I go biking or rock climbing, there are lots of fit women for me to interact with, but I have little success with them. The occasional one night stand, but they aren’t going to marry me.
So that’s why I think making a list and checking it twice has limited utility. All it does it eliminate the women who are actually available to me.
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I’ve been reading this blog for a while and I’m interested in trying out game, but I won’t be ready for actual sex until I am able to undergo a vasectomy. How should I practice game in the meantime?
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kaikou
Agreed. But as an excercise, what do you think separates Russell Brand’s rambling verbal game from the wordy KJs?
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Too unmotivated to do “useful” things.
List of what’s wanted from potential dates:
* …
Can’t start even with number one, as it’s too flexible. There is no outside thing I’m looking for. That’s like saying what song do you want from a piano. Huh? You sit down at it, and see where the mood takes you. The poetry of it is that you don’t know. There is a feedback system at work – you don’t map out where you are going to go ahead of time.
I had a bit of an infatuation and spark today. A little hand holding and a few cheek kisses with a 19 girl who has been an admirer since she was 16. There was real spark between us. I could see that spark going in any number of ways. I don’t even WANT to know what ways that spark could develop. She’ll be visiting my place again in 3 months to spend a vacation. Will I just thrill to her face? One night stand? Little affair? Two year fling? Pregnancy and then marriage?
Please, don’t tell me.
In the meanwhile, I already have what I want. Life is just about as good as it gets. I have room to add more or new to my harem. I have and still have room to add more of real love an intimacy and great sex. And so this week I’ve scheduled a date with a girl who is extremely attractive and who has a bubbly personality, and who seems lonely and hopefully also isolated by living in a small town. Smart too. Let’s call her DD.
I’ve often contemplated posting one face pic of the hottie I’ve been dating since September, just to brag. Her face could be considered a 10. A real stunner. Knock out. My other girl comes more lately, I believe from greater intimacy. Our sex is more violent and animalistic lately, which is a nice contrast to the romantic love filled sex I have with my hottie. I’ve instructed her to get a lesbian lover and bring her to my bed for threesomes. She’s working on it.
There are a few other potential dates I could follow up with, if I don’t fall in love with DD. But I expect DD will steal my heart, and we’ll grow a fast infatuation. That’s the plan. I think she’s a virgin, too.
So, a list of what I’m looking for?
* intimacy and bonding
* adventure
* the unknown
* great sex
* some threesomes
* some mixture of stability and change – an ever changing and evolving family structure
So personally, I don’t think I can answer the question the way it’s posed. The way I hear it posed is “what song do you want to play”, while my approach to the piano is “let’s see what mood comes out of my fingers”.
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By the way, that 19 year old who sparked with me saw me spend fucking time with both my girls, and met both of them.
Plus a 3rd girl, my ex, is also always all over me.
Rather than put the girl off, just standing beside each other for a picture got us both aroused. Me enough for a pant popping boner, and her to spontaneously start holding my hand and not letting go even after the picture taking was done.
I love chemistry like that. Air snapping electricity. All the way up my spine for a 1/2 hour after she left.
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@eric, Then actually you are clear about what I’m asking, because that’s pretty much it.
Of course there’s a limit to it; the limit is your own capacity for imagination. One of the points of the exercise — this mental fitness exercise — is to find out how strong your imagination is, and how good your form for ‘mental lifting’ is. There’s a reason why they call it ‘suspension of disbelief’; the imagination is like a mental muscle group.
Your given problem is that you have trouble imagining what to say in certain situations. Therefore, you need to exercise your imagination to buff it up, but you also make sure you’re using good form while you do it.
So you don’t need to be sure how to get more detailed; you need to sit down and find out how just how detailed you CAN get. And the more specifically and explicitly you do that, the better your form while exercising your imagination.
Remember, Game is very much about influencing women’s behavior. To some extent, you’re going to have to create the wife you want. Thus, the better you know what characteristics she should have, the better, faster, and easier you’ll be able to install them in her.
And therefore, such a list actually INCREASES the number of women who are available to you. Because then you can better distinguish between what characteristics you want in a woman that are more easily upgradeable and which are less. I find “fit” is usually a lot easier to fix than “sweet”, for example. And then you can waste less of your valuable resources on the ones that don’t meet your standards for unimprovable characteristics, and spend your resources more efficiently on finding those that do, and then upgrading them.
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I think it would be great if women were a bit more like computers.
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Is this why some guys do well in foreign countries? Because they can’t speak the language well, they have a lesser chance of sticking their foots in their mouths?
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man. im a dude in a happy sex filled LTR but I check this blog out on occasion, and I have to say this post has been the best in a while. absolutely nailed it. I’d consider myself on the border of greater beta/lesser alpha – mostly because (like most readers on here) I’ve always been too aware for full on balls out alphaness. I live my life not taking shit from anybody, man or women, and have had great success with girls…but not the type of total-score-of-the-NBA-allstar-game type of numbers a natural or, or the type of person im about to type about below, would have.
This post reminds me a lot of something I saw over the weekend. Maybe i’ve read this term on here but I call it ‘neanderthal game’.
I witnessed a total goofball, looking and acting like a 2nd string Stifler from American Pie, literally just post up, drink and act like a total idiot while half the girls in the place surrounded him. Showing people his balls and calling them gay for looking, throwing ice at someone from his drink to get their attention from across the room, that type of shit. Im guessing that when this kid is actually at his best, he’s probably pulling down quality pussy. When he’s acting like a unrefined complete neanderthal, he can take his pick of any 7 in the building.
I think for a lot of the more self-aware readers on here who are too smart to really act like this, they need to throw some neanderthal game in the mix. Treating it like a spice instead of the whole meal would definitely take someone’s game to the next level, IMO
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Never underestimate the importance of fucking a woman like end of the world is tomorrow. If you make them cum like it is a religious experience they will love you forever. Part of it is biochemical in that when a woman orgasms it releases oxytocin, a hormone that encourages partner bonding. The other part is that women do not find men who can get them off on a routine basis. I think Roosh was right when he wrote that you don’t need to get women off to keep her in your orbit. But, if you can give some chick multiple orgasms in the same night she will call you for the year afterward.
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@Wald: Is this why some guys do well in foreign countries? Because they can’t speak the language well, they have a lesser chance of sticking their foots in their mouths?
Yes! I’ve said this before. When there’s a language barrier, both sides are less wise to the subtleties of the language. The more tenuous a grasp of English a girl has, the less of a bitch shield there is to necessitate a good hacking with the sword of neg.
And that concludes my beta post for the day.
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I’m not sure I agree with the Anon comment about high testosterone guys being the most successful with women. It’s more like the High “T” and low cortisol (stress hormone) combination.
Even if that’s true, why don’t we consistently see power-lifter bodybuilder type guys with the most and hottest women? We don’t – it’s more so the attractive and stylish guys. At least in urban areas.
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You seem to gloss over something here.
Intelligent guys who “get” game and the true nature of female sexuality on an intellectual level – but can’t put on the show – are fucked over in an extremely painful way.
Especially if they realize that it’s guys like them who built this high-tech world…only to be shit on at the bottom rung of the ladder by the smirking douche bags who don’t have enough honesty or intelligence to get anxious or sad.
Ignorance is bliss.
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And Sugar,
I think you are on to something.
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Game in a nutshell: If you act like a dumbshit they will treat you as an equal.
Corollary: If you act as an equal, they will treat you like a dumbshit.
“I have made this letter longer than usual because I lacked the time to make it short.”
– Blaise Pascal
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Bill Brasky
You self righteous arrogant prick.
Not enough honesty or intelligence to get anxious or sad? Way to paint state control as a skill set only retards can master.
You projecting little fuck. Face your fail like man.
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you wouldn’t say that to my face, cumsplat
let me guess…sports fan? into hip hop?
eat shit, retard.
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Sports? Hip hop? Where did that come from.
No, I said it here.
Was I wrong?
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The vast hordes of dumb, dishonest people have to grapple with neither anxiety nor sadness. Fact. Go fuck some slant eyed whore, you internet toughfag.
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“The vast hordes of dumb, dishonest people have to grapple with neither anxiety nor sadness.”
Therefore guys who aren’t hampered by unattractive emotions are shallow and stupid, is that the logic?
Funny how your logic makes everything snap into place in your favor, putting you at the pinnacle of creation, all the while girls judge you the opposite.
Smooth maneuvering, hampsterman.
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Pinnacle of creation? What the fuck is in my favor here? Who’s projecting, again?
I think its the little blogger boy who couldn’t get any quality white pussy, so he had to go gook, and rationalizes it to himself as some kind of manly adventure.
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Bill, you are here on a PUA blog proclaiming that men who are good with women are inferior to you.
….
You don’t get the joke?
It’s you!
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And you’re right there with me, cumsplat. Going asian is the most over beta move one could make. See how lying to yourself works? In your little mind, you’re still the big man.
Over.
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What I am makes no difference to my point about your hampsterhead twisting of your status.
I may or may not be lower than you and stupider than you. Does that have any bearing on my point?
Yes or no – am I wrong about YOU?
I bet you can’t face that question.
Frankly I find your argument a glaring display of ego protection that is an insult to the very attempt at learning social skills.
How you reconcile this in your mind is a mystery. Perhaps, like many females with segmented minds, you find no need for reconcilliation.
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Another Peter Parker is what you are. If only women could see your real underwear hero value!
And all those guys girls find attractive – they are so obviously beneath you!
God, it’s painful the willful, deliberate ignorance.
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Seriously, what the fuck are you talking about?
Is this the real reason you had to move?
“Yes or no – am I wrong about YOU?”
In that I’m the joke? Well, I am a joke.
You are a joke too. You are just too stupid and full of shit to realize it.
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Ive had better pussy than anyone who can rationalize moving to fucking asia, that I can assure you.
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Bill – focus. Are you, yes or no, claiming that men with state control and social skills are inferior to you?
If you answer no, then scroll up and re-read what you’ve been writing.
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I never said they were “inferior” to me, you simpleton.
They tend to be less intelligent and honest than me. These are not markers of “inferiority” by any apparent real world measure, as these characteristics make your fellow cunts tingle.
Only “inferior” in terms of what works for the sustenance of a high tech civilization.
What are you missing?
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Bill, please explain to me how unwillingness to be sexually locked in with women of one’s home nationality who fail to meet even minimal requirements of womanhood makes one beta.
What’s beta about get in where you fit in?
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Once technology is invented, sustaining it doesn’t require the same level of genius as is required to invent it.
You only need about 120 IQ or so to sustain our high tech infrastructure. 120 is no detriment to charisma, social skills, or testosterone.
I’ve seen no evidence that you are on some tail end of the bell curve that puts you at risk for aspergy low social skills and interests that lead to low testosterone. Seems you are just some guy who is grasping at any straw to cling to the belief that guys who are BETTER measurably at social skills, are overall not as good – for society, for smarts, for the women, for anything really important.
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Im pretty drunk and not in the best place right now BUT to respond
xsplat-
a lifetime of observation tells me that guys who are better than me with women TEND to be
“not as good – for society, for smarts, for the women, for anything really important.”
This is something that, from what I’ve read, the author of this blog would agree with me on.
You seem to be mistaking my disgust with this fact for some romantic delusions about the goodness of the modern world.
I don’t think the modern world is good.
I think it is the product of 2k years of feudalism, christianity, and industrial pussification.
I want to watch it burn, along with all the smug douchebag salesmen who leach off of it.
If you arent aware of our ongoing decline, good for you.
Nicole-
I have no “nationality”. I don’t live in a nation. That’s why Steven Colbert addresses his audience as “nation”…the idea of the US as a nation is a joke.
We are a bunch of competing tribes living on the same continent.
Ethnicity, or race, now that’s another matter.
But as your “cubic feet of sperm” comment unconsciously alluded to, it doesnt really matter. We are in a race to the genetic bottom, and your wayward men are winning.
Congratulations?
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I’ve always been critical of the seduction community and its goals, and this post illustrates my disagreements very well.
I agree that the community’s techniques work; the problem is that I do not necessarily believe that one should make the changes required to implement them. There are some behavioral changes that are good – such as not letting people take advantage of you by paying for every drink, for example – and being more social by talking to others and getting over approach anxiety.
On the other hand, I am unwilling to dumb down my speech just to appeal to more women, regardless of whether 2 million dollars is at stake or not. I have no problem with explaining things to people or talking about things that require less mental effort, but I want to be around people who appreciate smart conversation when smart things come up. If my philosophy means that fewer women will appreciate me, then that’s a tradeoff I’m willing to make.
The seduction community preaches confidence and comfort in one’s beliefs. But in reality, the community is actually asking men to change to adhere to what is attractive to women and ignore those beliefs. Some will obviously disagree, but I don’t believe that attracting women is the one and only purpose in life, and society has advanced much more than simply existing to procreate.
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I like to discuss the earlier rounds of the Linares Chess tournaments with hot women since they tend to be more tactically interesting than the later rounds which seem to become more strategic and subtle. I’d hate to bore them.
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I’m familiar with pua stuff from reading the mystery method and seduction community sites a few years back, and I think you guys are absolutely brilliant in not being manipulated by chicks, so keep chucking on. 🙂 see my blog m-yegy.blogspot.com
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