The point of yesterday’s post wasn’t to argue whether muscles help with picking up girls (they do, but not as much as most guys think), but to remind everyone that testosterone directly affects how motivated you feel to approach girls.
Low T = low motivation to meet women, and thus fewer opportunities for sex with a variety of prey.
High T = high motivation to meet women, and thus more approaches, which leads to improved game, and finally better sex with hotter chicks.
Have you ever had an injury that put you out of the gym — or away from any exercise — for months? Men who have experienced this, speak up now. Your testosterone drops. You feel lethargic. You don’t mind staying in when you should go out to talk to girls. Then when your fortunes return, you feel a surge of manly power that carries you back into the field.
I thought the message was pretty clear, but commenters love to sidetrack themselves.
FIRST!!!!!!!!!!
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Yeah, that’s me.
Can’t seem to get bothered about chatting up girls, even though it’s been a stupid amount of time (talking 6 months +) since I’ve got laid. It’s not a fear of rejection – everyone gets turned down sometimes, I can take it and I usually do ok anyway. I’d class myself as a beta who dips into alpha-mode (without thinking about it) every on a semi-regular basis.
It’s a bad situation to be in and I’ve no idea how to burst out of it.
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I exercised regularly since I was old enough for cognitive decision making until I broke my shin. Put me out for close to 6 months of slacking, disinterest, sloth, and boredom. My entire harem fell to pieces. Not that the logistics of managing it were out of reason, I just lacked the interest in maintaining them.
Coming back to my Spartan lifestyle of extreme exercising and physical strain had a near immediate impact on my energy, personality, use of personal time, and interest in practicing the art of seduction.
You were spot on.
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Ha! This is why I use google reader. So I never have to bother with the ridiculous comments left by the horde. But I had to break today just to leave this comment.
This is me laughing and not giving a f*ck.
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Lift weights. Fuck skanks. Have lots of white babies.
Aaaaaaaaaand we’re done.
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Indeed, Chateau.
Testosterone is first and foremost, a mood hormone. It fluctuates moment-to-moment, depending on how alpha, how satisfied, how “winning” you feel. Studies show that T drops in men who identify with a particular sports team–when that team loses. Floyd Landis took microdoses of T during the ’06 Tour de France–not because T does much for cyclists, but because it gave him that killer instinct, that drive to win (that endurance excercise saps.) He won, but they stripped him of his title when new, sensitive tests discovered his doping.
In apes & other higher primates, the male with the highest T is the alpha. Not coincidentally, T is linked with serotonin and dopamine. As they go, so does T. Drop serotonin, and you drop T–and vice versa.
So you need plenty of T to be alpha. It’s the T that provides the motivation to maintain hand over the tribe. It’ Plain & simple. Don’t get it twisted, yo.
I’ll give an example–a night of drinking suppresses T. (Suck it up, alkies). After a rare night of many drinks (I usually stop after 1 or two, but this particular night, I had 5-6, got loaded.. the next day, no hangover, but not much libido. I felt like I was stuck in neutral.
The next day, after exercise, I was back to my normal, sex-lovin’, goal-seeking self.
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I actually took a vow not to lift weights for 1 month because of finals. After 2 weeks I started getting sick. Girls were saying they liked me more because I wasnt an asshole to my fat friend. Long story short, you start becoming beta. After 3 weeks stress of finals and the decreased immune system led to the worst sickness I’ve had since lifting. If I didnt have a gym membership today, I think I would be a hipster.
How come the media doesn’t blame Muslims for raping Lara Logan, but instead calls it an occupational hazard? I read other news and this was the only one to call a spade a spade.
http://www.examiner.com/spiritual-paths-practices-in-san-jose/islamic-sexism-and-the-rape-of-reporter-lara-logan
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I used to do gymnastics and martial arts for years. I was training with my mates and everybody were competing with each other all the time.
2 years ago I failed one of the moves and landed baadly on my feet. I had to stop training for 6 months. I lost 8kg and loads of motivation.
I’m trying out the paleo diet for the past few weeks and I think that amount of the beef and nuts I’m eating affects the T levels. Don’t know how it works, but I feel way better.
Also a good thing for increasing your testosterone level is commonly known ZMA which is mostly magnesium + zinc. It also helps you to sleep healthy and recover quicker after workouts.
A few months ago I found the supplement called Z-Force (from dymatize), which is basically standard ZMA with tribulus added to it. Good stuff.
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yeah, definitely, when regularly hitting the gym i feel more alive and enthusiastic and it redounds to success with the bishes.
roissy or anyone else: can you grow a beard? i can’t, and it annoys the shit outta me.
is an inability to grow a beard a sign of low T? i’m in my 20s…
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Oddly enough my past week was a case study in what not to do for your T. Got a nasty poison ivy rash on my arms and legs, so no gym for ten days. No sex in that uncomfortable state, so I’d rub one out nightly. Drank one or two beers daily, something I never do on a work night. And for whatever reason, I went to bed late for a string of days and barely got 5-6 of sleep. The goddam rash just knocked me off-balance every which way. The effect may well have been low testosterone. Which, as it turns out, sucks ass.
The ivy shit is almost healed and I went back to the gym first time today. And hell yeah, I’m back in business.
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You can get addicted to exercise:
http://www.slate.com/id/2281852/
This is a big problem for endurance running because endurance running is bad for you in the first place, but it happens for lifting weights too.
How bad you feel when you stop exercising is not how bad you feel if you never exercised in the first place. This tends to make exercisers think that non-exercisers are super foolish because they think the non-exercisers are suffering as much as they do when they take a month off.
Exercise is still a good idea.
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I found the initial post clear and helpful. Some of the comments were quite helpful too.
Good post.
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Learn to dance. The fumes given off by young women during dance will increase your testosterone levels.
As for the author’s diet advice I would recommend avoiding milk and all dairy products.
An alkaline diet improves prostate function, an acid diet irritates it. Green tea drives your urinary ph up nicely, try it.
Get some ph strips at your health food store and check it on your prostate fluid. It will nearly turn purple/black (high ph). Now think about it; if your prostate is bathed in high ph fluid, then acidic urine will irritate your prostate. Chronic low-ph urine (acidic) sets up a chronic irritation that you may not even be aware of.
Now try it after green tea and note the comfort difference.
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PA, I had many go-rounds with Poison Ivy in my youth when I lived in the jungles of the midwest.
A shot of cortisone will clear that up overnight. Otherwise, two weeks of misery.
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Always get your sleep, unless there is a life and death emergency.
Part of the lies that have been told, just like going to college, any college will do, and then working all day to feed a banker.
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Girls don’t care about muscles. Girls care about a flat gut.
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Here’s a question for esteemed Chateau residents:
Does high T positively or negatively affect the quality of
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Whoops, damned touch screen..
So to continue/restate– does high T affect the quality of women that men seek? If so, how?
I propose a three tiered model:
Omegas–low to no libido, will bang anything with a vadge.
Betas–moderate desire, low to moderate standards–i.e no crack whores, but will bang women of dramatically lower SMV just to get some ass.
Alphas–high desire but higher standards. Subsets of alphas will only date/bang the hottest women, and see lower SMV women as unworthy of their (our) attention or having alpha seed drip down their chins..
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One thing I found is that, while a high-T level compels me to go out and socialize, it also makes me less focused and decreases my attention span for work/study.
Therefore when exam/deadline hits, “release” frequency increases to focus. Anyone else has similar experience?
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Reply to AL-
Yes I agree, when I have high T I just cannot concentrate on study all I think about is sex and hot girls.
However if you have low T then you will have no drive and will not do the work either, prefering video games and sleep.
When I need to study I aim for the sweet spot of having just enough ‘oomph’ in the tank to motivate myself to work hard but not so much that I cannot possibly concentrate on the work at hand.
When I need to be pulling the girls, then as much T as possible is the desired state. In this state my body literally takes over from my brain and I find myself approaching girls automatically. It is surreal when you think about it afterwards.
My T rate varies considerably considering what kind of diet I’am on. If I’m bulking and trying to gain muscle then T goes way up (just dont get fat or T will soon plummet again), when cutting fat (T goes down I’am afraid from the low calorie diet and I go from Alpha to beta) if I’am maintaining then I hit the middle zone. I also never masturbate or watch porn.
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@ Dan
Follow impulses. Kiss a chick you’re talking to, even if you get slapped. Its a great way to scare the shit out of your body. T rate usually jumps, which you ride until someone rides you.
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Three words: “cold water swimming”
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@Break from lifting – Testosterone is an immunosuppresant. You probably got sick due to stress, poor diet, and lack of sleep from all the studying, NOT from stopping your workouts. You sound young, so if you’re working out regularly, you’re probably teetering on the edge of being sick most of the time, but your body is able to keep shit in order due to your youth.
Those of us who have been around a minute have to pace ourselves – I know for me personally, a few weeks of Xfit WODs and a wonky sleep schedule + a night drinking always lands me feeling shitty.
One of the reason women subconsciously desire men with muscles is that having large amounts of mass signals a strong immune system that despite the presence of high testosterone levels.
From my experience observing basic trainees in the US Army, they rarely will get sick, because for the 9 weeks they are in basic they are sleep deprived, highly stressed, and adjusting to a new climate, and so we DON’T work the shit out of them with pushups/chinups like the old days. (The exception to this is the Marine Corps.)
However, when basic trainees become Soldiers and continue on to their next level of training, we definitely kick the shit out of them. The stress of adjusting to the military lifestyle is gone, so we can add additional physical stressors like advanced physical fitness training. Just ask anyone who has been to Benning for Infantry AIT.
By the time these Soldiers have graduated their advanced training, most of them are in better shape than 98% of the civilian population, due mostly to a strict diet/sleep/exercise regime. Then they go off to their units, and depending on their job, either continue to stay in shape or binge on burger king, stay up late watching Netflix, sandbag through PT, and then wonder why they are in sick call every other day.
When my Soldiers go to sick call, the first thing I do is take away their Xbox or TV so they can focus on “healing.” They miraculously heal within days – sometimes hours.
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Possibly Related articles:
Biological Age and DNA Telomeres:
http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg21028100.200-telomere-nobelist-selling-a-biological-age-test.html
World’s Strangest Marriages:
http://www.oddee.com/item_97042.aspx
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Yes, that’s true: In Asia men are officially marrying their pillows and video game animes.
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At one point I had cut my calorie consumption down to the point that my body was reducing blood flow and heat to my hands and feet. I had zero libido at that point.
Also I spontaneously started getting more alpha after I began lifting weights.
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In Japan they call omega males Otaku. These are the guys who develop relationships with anime characters.
An American omega admits having sex with 1000 cars:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/2000899/Man-admits-having-sex-with-1000-cars.html
He creeps up on some at night when no one is looking.
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An American omega admits having sex with 1000 cars:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/2000899/Man-admits-having-sex-with-1000-cars.html
technically, he’d be an alpha since the cars found him sexually desirable.
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Definitely find my libido dropping during my Ultimate leagues off-season
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Interesting response by an alleged doctor on one of those Yahoo Answer sites, regarding the question of whether masturbation effects T-levels:
“Testosterone does drop after ejaculation, but it is a small drop, and male masturbation (to completion) has been shown to increase testosterone in the long term. Now, while the semen exchanged during sex appears to increase testosterone levels in women, a woman’s fluids have no such effect on men. However, orgasms stimulate the production of estrogen in both men and women. So masturbating to completion will increase estrogen in men as much as sex would.
What is perhaps most interesting is that abstinence of male masturbation decreases testosterone production, but the abstinence of male orgasm does not decrease testosterone. production. This leads us to the conclusion that testosterone production is stimulated through the act of masturbation, but not through the act of orgasm or ejaculation.
So male masturbation without orgasms will increase your testosterone but not your estrogen. To get the highest natural testosterone levels and the highest testosterone to estrogen ratio, a male would have to masturbate frequently but abstain from orgasm (or ejaculation as you put it).
Of course this isn’t a humanly realistic expectation for your fighters. (Or for anyone, it’s down right sadistic.) What you need to do is simply increase the ratio of masturbate time to frequency of orgasm. It can be hard for some men to masturbate but stop before orgasm, so the easiest most realistic way to accomplish this would be to ask them to masturbate longer before giving in to an orgasm.”
Takeaway: if you want to be a really mean lady-killing bastard, jerk off and stop just before orgasm, every day (or at least before going out on Saturday night).
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@1LT:
Re: immunosuppressant qualities of T: The studies are mixed, and I think your story of your Soldiers bears that out.
One study on older men showed that high T (age-relative) had a LOT fewer infections as well as a host of other problems. There are a few other studies that show that T has a lot of protective effects on men, immunologically and othewise.
With your soldiers, it seems it’s not the T, but the big drop in T when they go off the Warrior’s regimen of proper diet, exercise, and rest, that they get sick.
Your story points out another key element of game and being a bad-ass Alpha male–discipline. We need it. Discipline by itself is Alpha, and I’m sure, tho I haven’t seen any studies, that it beefs up T just by nature.
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@Begby:
Re: jerking off but stopping before ejaculating–the Taoists have been recommending this for centuries. THey have evolved forms of chi gong exercise around it delaying or suppressing ejaculation. Some modern practitioners & researchers of these arts have verified that orgasm in men is a separate physiological function from ejaculation. Most of the time, in most men, they are coupled, but it’s possible with practice, to separate these functions, and orgasm without ejaculating (and vice versa. certain drugs do this, and I don’t want any). The procedure is more or less as you described–stimulate sexually until the edge of ejaculation, but don’t go over.
As you said, it’s almost sadistic, but it does charge you with energy. There are techniques to spread this energy around. The Taoists say that when a man can orgasm but retain his semen for 100 times between ejaculations, he’ll reach some sort of enlightened state. I don’t know about that, but I guarantee that he’d be a badass and would be in immaculate health.
Do this during sex–deny the pussy your seed, it drives women wild.. their hamsters go nuts trying to get you to come.. it’s a true battle of the sexes…she wants your seed & your energy.. deny her and she will flip out. Great stuff.
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Sexbot alert:
http://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2011/05/the-culture-that-is-japan-there-is-no-great-stagnation.html
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I have to deliberately force myself to get to the gym when I get busy: I find after a couple of weeks not working out I get noncommittal on noticing women.
Picking them up – after a week of heavy workouts, I always feel like I can conquer small countries in my time off.
Any man who doesn’t notice this isn’t working out properly.
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If you practice chi-kung regularly, after some years you’ll find yourself in a permanent state of sexual arousal. You’ll feel a heat in your belly and an electricity in your spine, and you’ll grow a kinesthetic synesthesia such that you “feel” situations around you.
You may find that it gets too intense at times, and you’ll need to back off for a few months.
If you are in good health, four hours of fucking per day plus a few days a week of staying in bed fucking is sustainable.
I guess chi-kung raises testosterone, but whatever it does, I’m sure it’s a hell of a lot more than that.
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In regards to (R)Evolutionary comments…
Someone has to field report denying a woman your seed. So do you just stop and walk away with your hard on? lmao… “YOU CAN”T HAVE MY ENERGY BITCH”
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“Someone has to field report denying a woman your seed.”
I rarely come and once the girls get used to it they don’t seem to mind one way or the other. I scream my head off and with a good partner she’ll come a lot. The climax is no longer about my coming.
I’ve never noticed girls wanting me to come. They want to fuck, and coming stops that.
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The only thing that raises my t-level is a big tittied 18 yo college freshman drunk off her ass in Cancun.
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Who knows about the young Canadian blogger who just died of stage 4 metastasized colon cancer and left a final post saying “now I’m dead”? He blogged for 4 years about the ordeal. But I never saw him blog about what diet might have gone wrong and he was eating junk food (drinking Coke) down to the end.
Does anyone have an idea how he could have saved himself? I don’t think having a heavy wife killed him, or?
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Allowing women to dictate anything is beta. Women should be subjugated and oppressed like chattle. Anything less, as evidenced by the current plight of the Western world, would be uncivilized.
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The Germans are reporting that the month of May will see a rise in marital cheating:
http://www.bild.de/unterhaltung/erotik/affaere/im-mai-am-meisten-seitenspruenge-17743400.bild.html
But 43% of Berliner cheaters say that the affairs help them realize what they like most about their LTR.
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“But 43% of Berliner cheaters say that the affairs help them realize what they like most about their LTR.”
That may well be simple non-monogamy, rather than cheating. Either way, it’s true that relationship satisfaction often increases when you are all around sated and happy. Why bother being pissed off at girl #1 for her flaws, when her personality is rounded out by girl #2?
But most men bind themselves in a beta moral framework that would never allow that.
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Amused mastery is not a one size fits all cure.
The authors(s) have at other times pointed out that it’s beneficial to put your fist through the wall beside a woman’s head.
The authors(s) have also at other times pointed out that publicly embarrassing the girl is at times to your benefit.
It’s far to easy to over-extrapolate simple principles, and lose the big picture. This is not easy listening music class. This is jazz class. You need a huge repertoire of styles to pull from.
Learn how to use anger, learn how to use rage. Amused mastery won’t always help you.
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Anyone that could misunderstand yesterdays post can’t be pulling women.
T= Alpha male fuel
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xsplat
Over time, I find your posts both consistent and corrosive. That’s both a compliment and a challenge.
You do represent a clear line, and I see the cohesion. My beef with you is that you appear to instrumentalize everyone, which is snobbish and cramped.
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Feh, my aim is to peel off the skin of morals to get to the meat and bones of human interactions. It appears that “I” intrumentalize people because we are all Machiavelan underneath our pretty veneers.
My aim is to use our natures to benefit. I call a spade a spade, and teach how to use a spade. I deliberately make my style abrasive and ugly.
When you peel back the skin, it at first appears disgusting.
At first.
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Feh, you’ve reminded me that I consider the blog writers to have a hole in their teaching. It may be a temperamental or stylistic difference, but I see it instead as a theoretical mistake.
The blog writers over-emphasize being Spock. Aloof, indifferent. Very little passion.
Not only does that style of attraction not fit all mens personalities, it is wrong.
A huge portion of magnetic charisma involves the passions.
At best the blog writers may mention dryly that overbearing rapy lust will turn women on. But he won’t talk about that when discussing technique. For technique it’s all about being Spock.
I don’t think you find other commentors aside from me who address using lust and anger in game.
I also doubt you’ll find any other commentor who teaches the old fashioned skill of long term game to get and create a devoted love slave. Slave as in slave.
There are big gaps in game teachings that only a direct, ugly approach can uncover.
Truth isn’t pretty. No use putting lipstick on a pig.
But my techniques will get a man a beautiful thing. My chemistry lessons will allow you to create what no other chemistry set will.
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@xsplat:
Respect.
Anger and lust often get Ol’ Dirty what he wants, and more.
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[…] on what Roissy wrote the other day about the benefits of testosterone, here is my pattern of behaviors when I trade off testosterone production to focus […]
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I have always felt success in any endeavor was a far better motivator as it gives that self satisfied feeling that feeds the sense of entitlement that chick dig, dead lifts not so much.
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Exsplat
this is not a “hole in their teachings” … it’s that they know their audience.
by and large, this site is populated by nerds who don’t have much game.
you ever see nerd rage?
you ever see forced anger from someone who’s been a beta his whole life?
it’s ugly, man. and i’m not talking the kind of ugly you’re talking about.
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Was told by a guru that combat sports also help raise T levels, making you more daring afterwards.
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@(R)Evolutionary –
I agree with you on the discipline comment. I marvel everyday when I look around at Soldiers – especially the infantry guys – and observe how square their jaws are, how broad their shoulders are, and how they walk around with an ass load of swagger. Even the privates. (This is especially noticeable when they are out of uniform, such as a bar-setting, as now they no longer have to act submissive toward rank.) These guys have T levels through the roof – part of their “warrior lifestyle,” as you put it.
I will say anecdotally LIVING WITH guys that are high in T can raise your T levels, too. When I was at officer school surrounded by dudes, I had this knife sharp alertness about me: I put on 10 pounds of muscle in 6 months working out almost every day, and I jacked off up to 3x a day. We all joked that we couldn’t stop jerking the chicken, but looking back, I wonder if it was the competitive atmosphere of officer school combined with high group T levels.
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I’m not buying the “you can’t there from here” argument.
I’m reminded of how Buddhism is taught. The more esoteric out of reach concepts are at once taught straight up front, and left as aspirational end goals. The idea of non-dual awareness, for instance. Buddhism is always taught with a Google Earth approach. With Google Earth, even when we are gathered to look at downtown Idaho, we must first go through the short ritual of zooming in from a planet sized big picture.
Inner game includes the passions. You can’t teach game without that big picture. You need to be swimming in the big picture for the details to have context.
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So bush league
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Right, but, for such a big-picture guy you’re missing out on a large quantity of … the big picture.
It’s okay for buddhists to teach esoteric concepts at once and up front, because those concepts are … esoteric, and out of reach. Like you said. The WORST DANGER of teaching those concepts up front is nothing worse than confusion.
On the other hand, you know full-well the dangers of getting physical or even just angry with women in north american countries. (You can’t claim ignorance as you have with e.g. pop culture or celebrities, because this sphere of the internet discusses anti male legislation ad nauseam.) If you teach the concept of “use your anger” and “don’t be afraid to get physical with women” up front — to this group — you are going to wind up with a bunch of socially inept dudes spazzing out, going postal on their woman with half-hearted, unsure blows in a fit of nerdrage. And then they’ll go to jail, because it will be exactly the sort of beta rage that disgusts women, rather than guides them, and the women will actualize that whole arsenal of stuff that this sphere complains about.
That, sir, is the big picture.
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Also,
Look, dude, I feel you, but you need to realize why 99.999% of the people who populate the game sphere are here, and that is because they don’t process the big picture.
Normal people naturally segment things into “build from details up to big picture” vs. “build from big picture down to details”.
For instance, mathematics is an example of the former — it is impossible to build mathematics in your google earth sort of way, you have to start with one, two, three, …, and after a number of years you can start doing stuff like abstract algebra. Which is the big picture, but is still inalterably based on the one, two, three type of understanding.
Physiology, on the other hand, is (or should be) an example of the latter — we all know how humans (the big picture) are supposed to function, and so we understand all the components in light of this. for instance, no idiot would study the gastrocnemius muscle all by itself, as it only makes sense in relation to other muscles.
The problem with people who are here in the game sphere, is that they tend to process EVERYTHING as “components upward” and will generally ignore things in the other direction unless they have been instilled since early youth (as e.g. religion is). So unfortunately you are going to be talking into the wind here with a lot of these people.
Especially if you “deliberately make your style ugly and abrasive”. Again, dude, I feel you, but a style like that is *only* going to resonate with people who already get it. That sort of preaching, and you’re going to lose what little chance you have of getting through to anyone but the choir.
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On the other hand, what intrigues me about your posts is this weird cognitive dissonance, where some of the time you view yourself as a buddhist like mentor who sees larger realities that the group doesn’t see, while at other times you yourself are struggling to get out of the same mentality.
The former doesn’t need any explanation. What I mean by the latter, though, is your occasional tendency to see things that are, no offense, simple common sense as “xsplat original thoughts”, suggesting that you’ve unconsciously absorbed some of the autistic-like tendencies of the game sphere to the point where breaking back out of those thoughts seems pretty original.
for instance, one of your “xsplat original” thoughts was the idea that beta type men band together to use monogamy as a tool to restrict sexual access against more libertine men. I dont know about native north americans, but I can tell you for sure that *everyone* from my country (argentina) who is not a complete retardo-dumbass knows this fact, regardless of which side of the fence they’re on. After all, south america is casanova culture — there’s a reason it’s “casanova” and not “newhouse”, and “don juan” rather than “sir john” — and the lines in the sand of sexual competition are drawn pretty clearly down there.
Likewise for some of your other “original” thoughts, which, honestly, could only seem original to someone who’s still trapped in the platonic cave of spectrum-type thinking. (In exactly the way that “game” concepts are, hate to say it, simple common sense for people with big-picture understanding of social stuff.)
I don’t mean to imply this about *all* of your soi disant original thoughts — some of which are genuinely original — but, you’ve said yourself that you’re pretty much a shut-in who doesn’t interact much with other guys. If you did you’d find that the apparently revolutionary principles of game are pretty much par for the course with … what most normal guys know.
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I’ll defend that the genetic basis for morality, combined with game theory combined with beta vs cad sexual strategies is an xsplat original combination, even if the elements are not original.
The cad vs dad strategy is not my creation. The idea that the dads have specific morals built into them genetically from birth is my own synthesis.
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And as to your defense of “no, really, you really really can’t get there from here”, I understand your point, but still disagree.
I may or not be effective in my attempts at showing a big picture attitude of including the passions as needed for inner game, however I’m certain that without that inclusion, game is not being taught at anything more than an introductory 101 level. And we CAN do better than that.
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And as to being polemic and abrasive, it is deliberate because some taboo thoughts refuse to be seen. The blog writers use the same stylistic technique. Some thoughts are so against the grain, that we need to piss people off to get them to even notice that there are alternatives.
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The genetic basis stuff, yeah, I appreciated that. If you have hotlinks to any relevant studies, I’d like to see them — I can leave a post over at your blog with my email.
On the other hand, this sphere often leaves me wondering how many tenets of generations-old argentine street wisdom would seem like revolutionary koans to this crowd. For instance, here’s another one:
Women’s sexual allure is their primary, um, “talent”. Therefore, the only way in which the “I value extreme modesty” crowd can be understood is as a group of less gifted (= uglier) women trying to equalize the beauty stakes; in other words, the only women who will come out in favor of “modesty” are, well, wanting in the attractiveness dept. As evidenced by the fact that none of them are hot. Alternatively, the modesty thing is just an excuse for not wanting to have sex with her frankly repulsive weenie beta man.
Again, this is simple common sense to any argentino with non retarded IQ, but it would still hit lots of people here hard in the face, as this crowd is ground zero for the whole “I want a nice modest girl” thing. The fact that “modesty” is simply a proxy for either (a) ugliness + jealousy of hotter girls, or (b) cold fish sexuality, is not something that most people here are ready to hear.
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X, look, my man. Look. Think about what sort of personality type would make it to age twenty-odd without even an elementary understanding of women or game.
That personality type would have to be ALL of the following:
one, frustrated with lack of prowess at women, and, most likely, pissed off at women;
two, presented with self-evident facts about the success of other guys with what we might call “game” traits;
AND three, willing to ignore those facts, or instead to deprecate the women involved as “feral” or “stupid” or … you know what they say.
It’s like the spearhead crowd, except the spearhead crowd is older and divorced already. Yes, there are ones who are not like that, but those are not the ones who need the message that you’re trying to broadcast.
These are the people who, when they’re pissed off, will simply back further into their cave and double down on their incorrect beliefs. Ever present a religious nut with incontrovertible evidence of evolution? Ever present a “natural foods” freak with the fact that fruit sugar is really, really, bad for you, and that there are ten “natural” foods that will kill you for every one that you can live on?
Do you think that pissing such people off will make you (a) more likely to get across with them, or (b) less likely to do so?
The answer is (b). This crowd needs the tough love — you’re right — but you are forgetting that “tough love” has “love” on the end of it.
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Maybe.
But being a prick is quite fun. Call it a hobby.
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I think the last thing that you’re forgetting, which is HUGE, is the language barrier between you and these women.
With women who speak your own language, “passions” have to be exactly calibrated — one awkward word, one strange gesture, and it’s *over*, grover.
On the other hand, across a language barrier it really does become more of a big picture thing, and the sort of minute awkwardnesses that can’t possibly be excised completely become less of a significant issue. For instance, when american girls come down to argentina they get successfully laid by a lot of local guys who are, frankly, awkward spazzes in the eyes of local women, because they have the passion but not the smooth words. The words don’t translate — or at least the target doesn’t understand the subtleties — so it starts to work across the language barrier.
I’m reminded of Doug 1, a poster that you seem to respect a lot — he gives examples that have the right *idea*, but in words that are wincingly awkward. For instance i once remember him saying someone should say “gulp down my cum slutty sex bitch of mine”, or that he called a girl “cunt container” (without humor or irony of any kind). These are the kind of things that would get him laughed out of the house by native english speaking girls, hell, even by girls with my second-language understanding of english. But my point is that they could totally work with girls who don’t know the language or its subtleties.
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And then there’s always that.
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Also, don’t forget, no one likes to be made fun of. That makes people defensive.
But almost everyone likes to watch someone being made fun of.
You can win over a group by mocking one member and making the rest smile.
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About language barrier, I think your point is that body language and attitude don’t translate well into text.
Right.
So we must teach attitude.
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That’s not the only thing I’m saying; I am also trying to explain to you the reason why this blog constantly emphasizes the laconic / aloof aspect, at the direct expense of the “passionate” aspect. And why it should, despite your vocal protestations to the contrary.
Basically, if someone reaches adulthood and they are still an awkward spaz, by the standards of their own native language, then they will *always* be that way; it will be nearly impossible to fix. The only way to fix it is to get them to more or less shut up most of the time.
If this blog were primarily about scoring with foreign women, which it isn’t, then I think you would see a corresponding increase in advice about “the passions”. Because if a woman doesn’t speak your language, then awkward wording — which will completely destroy you with a co-speaker of your language — becomes completely irrelevant in that case.
In fact, I will go one further and hypothesize that *any* man who sees substantially greater success with foreign women than with women from his own country, has at least some verbal spaz/general awkwardness problem in his own native language. Most of these guys will blame the difference on feminism, or on whatever other cultural boogie man, but that’s the hard truth. As amply supported by the observation that the posters who sing the “foreign women are better” chorus most loudly are precisely those who seem most autistic in their postings.
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And if a person decided to shift the weight of group memes to his view, he’d come up against resistance.
You seem to say the resistance is a sign that the conversation is not persuasive. I disagree with that. The conflict is necessary and a part of the persuasion. And the persuasion is not always a matter of instant agreement from one person – crowd persuasion works differently than scoring agreement points.
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@ritmo rioplatense
Yeah and American women are retarded bro.
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Ritmo, white guys clean up on Asia. Your theory as to this being due to being socially inept at home is wrong. Or maybe you are saying that the reason has something to do with communication styles being subverted. That’s not it either. Luckily for the white spaz, he can get still get laid in Asia. The non spaz can get laid more in Asia. It’s largely a status thing. Plus our cocks are way bigger than the 4 inchers the locals sport.
And I think you overplay the spaz factor. A lot of us are socially adept enough, but were not socialized to deal with women. I argue that this is in fact the human condition. Less so in your country, perhaps.
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Ritmo – your point is that spazs need over-correction.
Mine is that most of us here can do far better than over-correction. From the get go we need direction for a balanced attitude.
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Yeah, ok, that’s the best case scenario. The worst case scenario is that the brick wall against which you’re currently banging your head, is really a brick wall.
I was referring only to interacting with women, the topic at hand. Agreed that social skills with other men is a whole different kettle of fish, and that the two are unavoidably divergent past a certain level. That level (the highest level at which you can succeed with both) is pretty high, but the highest levels of success with either sex precludes the highest level of success with the other.
as for “my country”, like i said, there’s a reason that the english slang words are Don Juan and Casanova, rather than Sir John and Newhouse. So ok fine.
But it’s not in isolation — the same degree of cultural passion is also what makes us sometimes shoot at some dude in the street for wearing the wrong color jersey. High levels of passion are, well, high levels of passion. It can’t be compartmentalized as easily as many think.
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I was the first person to openly mock the-spearhead crowd. While that may not have started the trend, the mocking will have brought some people over through sheer political peer pressure over to the side of no auto-agreeing with the-spearhead attitude. In-group out-group association is argument. Mocking is politics.
Ya, me too. Men are generally enculturated to be clueless about women. Women are biologically in cahoots to keep us that way. The latin and macho cultures seem to have subverted that effort to a good degree – but even you guys don’t know all women’s secrets as open knowledge.
You are mistaken if you think this blog is read only by spergs. Most of us just need to be clued in to the secret workings of women. I’m mid forties and have been dating for a while, so by trial and error I’ve learned a few things worth sharing. My beta ignorance before is a common default position for guys – it wasn’t caused by spergyness.
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T being an immunosuppressant should mean that you will feel sick less often than someone with less suppressed immune system.
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Beer and cigarettes definite T killers. Throw in a lack of exercise, and you become a Eunuch. Did this for 4 years after divorce.
Now exercising and weight lifting. The Mojo is back in force.
And always remember, If you like to go out and party with a vengeance, and there may be an unsuspected hedonic outcome at the end of the night…Take the blue pill.
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Nothing saps my game like missing sleep.
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xplat
“Truth isn’t pretty. No use putting lipstick on a pig.”
Truth is always beautiful: beauty is the manifestation (existence) of truth (essence).
But truth is also round, and in that sense if your perspective is flat (like spock; I like your analogy) then it can look like chaos, and it can be feared, and yes it can also cause pain when there is emotional investment in the idol (ideal, concept, or Roissy’s “outcome”, whatever you prefer).
Truth is always beautiful but not often palatable, and in fact it must taste very bitter indeed if so many would rather waste their whole lives (absurdly) chasing their very own worth and hoping for victory to one day come (in just the way they wanted it, too :-))
Sounds boring and flat to me but they always seem to think they’re almost there.
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The deeper your voice, the more testosterone you naturally have.
To the guy in his 20’s who is worried about his beard–be happy you don’t hAve to shave every day. Shavings a bitch. I have a very deep voice and did not have to shave every day until into my 30’s. Women liked the smoothness since whiskers give them a rash anyway.
BTW, women are attracted to T. They can taste it in a mans saliva and hear it in his voice. They can also smell it in your body’s fragrance. This is subconscious, but there non the less. Which is just one more reason it’s difficult to fake being an alpha when you just “ain’t”.
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Screwed up my right rotator cuff at work so bad that I couldn’t even walk with a normal stride, because my shoulder would click. It took about 18 months for it to get back in order.
For most of the recovery time, I laid off heavy lifting, and was generally sluggish. Remained at 170#, but lost a lot of mass. Heavy abuse of the snooze button in the morning. Although I still kept my rotation of 4 girls (one dropped off, only to be replaced by another); my desire to chase something new was near zero.
Within the last couple months, my shoulder has stopped bugging me, and everyone notices an improvement in my attitude. I thought it was just because of summer approaching, but maybe I was rocking low-T for that whole time.
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Have indeed hat that happen to me, on top of that, during the down time I switched my diet up as well (less craving for steak etc when I wasnt working out)…the drop in “the hunger” 🙂 was ridiculously noticeable…a woman in a short skirt would pass me on the train – meh, whereas before, when T was high, and I was doing my mma thing, a woman dressed so would get a low growl and smirk…hooorah
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Totally true, gay or straight.
I’m gay and have, for the past three months, started boxing training. That is a balls-out regime. All the other lads are str8, have full time jobs, train 6 nights weekly and are banging hot chicks.
Same here – I’m a new man.
I look at pix of me from five years ago: thin, swan-neck, girl face. Now I’m much bigger, not so pretty, got a beard, square jaw and a thick neck. Uglier but alpha. Alphas don’t need pretty.
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