It’s easier to judge men’s sexual interest than it is to judge women’s sexual interest.
Everyone Can Predict The Interest Level Of Men On A Date – But Not Of The Women With Them
When it comes to assessing the romantic playing field — who might be interested in whom — men and women were shown to be equally good at gauging men’s interest during an Indiana University study involving speed dating — and equally bad at judging women’s interest. […]
“The hardest-to-read women were being misperceived at a much higher rate than the hardest-to-read men. Those women were being flirtatious, but it turned out they weren’t interested at all,” said lead author Skyler Place, a doctoral student in IU’s Department of Psychological and Brain Sciences working with cognitive science Professor Peter Todd. “Nobody could really read what these deceptive females were doing, including other women.” […]
“How people talk might convey more than what they say,” Place said.
Observers did not have to see much of this non-verbal behavior. They were just as good at predicting the speed-dating couple’s interest if they saw only 10 seconds of the date as they were if they saw 30 seconds. The researchers say this showed that observers, even with limited information, could make quick, accurate inferences using “thin slices” of behavior. […]
Evolutionary theory, said Place, predicts a certain level of coyness or even deceptiveness in women because if a relationship is abandoned they may face greater costs, including pregnancy and child rearing. When choosing a mate, it is in a woman’s best interest to get men to open up and talk honestly to give her a better idea of whether they would be good long-term partners.
“In a speed dating environment, you would expect to see these effects dramatically, with the women trying to get the men to be more straightforward, while they themselves remain more coy,” Place said.
Female coyness is an evolutionary adaptation that serves two important purposes; one, it pressures male suitors to be more forthcoming with personal information that could reveal their mate value (and male mate value is more complex than female mate value, which for the latter amounts to mostly how the woman looks), and two, it alters perception of a woman’s sexual fidelity. Coy women tend to be perceived by men as less slutty and therefore better long-term mate prospects who won’t cuckold them.
So that sly smile and subtle shit test tossed out over drinks in a cozy lounge are nothing more than a woman’s mental executions of ancient biological algorithms operating at the subconscious level. Romantic poetry and sweeping odes are man’s attempt to elevate this sordid and banal clanking of the machinery of genetic legacy beyond the realm of disappointment. Can you blame us for smearing lipstick on this pig?
So coyness is the natural state of woman. And informational overload the natural state of man. Men sell, women buy. Men market, women browse. This is the current that carries courtship over hormonally-tossed helical seas.
And yet game, in theory and in practice, teaches men to act opposite their natural instinct; to assume the role and the prerogative and the mindset of the woman in seductive affairs. In essence, to flip the script.
Flipping the script works. It works because women can’t resist a man who won’t tidily play by the established, and oh so boring, rules. A coy man — a man who is as circumspect and judgmental and inscrutable as women normally are at the beginning of a courtship — triggers women’s attraction, much like a woman’s firm round ass and pretty face triggers attraction in men. Male coyness — aka the art of insinuating you are the one being chased — is so odd, and so at adds with biological, not to mention social, norms, that women are compelled to chase the man who effectively adopts such a conceit. A woman thinks to herself, or rather she subthinks to herself (because these thoughts never really materialize fully into conscious awareness):
“This man is coy for a reason. What is he hiding? And how amazing is this part of him he’s hiding? He hasn’t asked a question of me yet. Does he like me or not? I can’t tell. He must have other lovers at his beck and call. I feel strangely intrigued. I need to know more.”
Once a woman is put in this chaser pattern, the seduction is yours to lose. She will be the one readily offering information about herself to win your approval, while you will lean back, literally and figuratively, judging her harshly. For it is true that every woman, despite her boilerplate blather to the contrary, secretly wants to be judged by a man. That’s how she knows you’re better than the rest.

Cat Game!
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These are the same guys who did that video about the nigger who thwarted the rape,the gay guy who became famous for a couple of months. “Theyre climbin in your windows…”
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You feel it’s ok to use racial smears but then you choose to say “gay guy?” What’s wrong with you?
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Saying “nigger faggots” is just sooo over the top.
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Flava, that is one cuteass video – I bet your an animal in bed
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i mean, for a chunky blond with big cans, your kind of adorable
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Uh-uh. Men buy, women sell. And it’s always a seller’s market.
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Women buy alphas when they find them, so long as the alpha is in her price range.
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Un huh. There are a minority of men who in a position of selling power – they’re called Alpha Males.
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Anytime you are the buyer you are in the position of power.
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Tell that to a crackhead.
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Their not really a buyer at that point. More like a hostage.
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Coyness is my preferred MO for 3 reasons.
1. A chick projecting onto you is better than anything you can present yourself.
2. It makes me harder to data mine/track/stalk/encapsulate/fact check
3. It is low effort.
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Yup. Worked for the Obasmotron.
Thor
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“3. It is low effort.”
Now THAT’s right up my alley!
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This witholding of information on the part of the male – “coyness” – works wonders for married men. Just say “I have baggage” and redirect the conversation to her flaws and weaknesses when she starts getting nosey.
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OT, contestant on Bachelor has current love affair with bigwig Chicago trader who refuses to get married. Alpha of the month?
“Former Chicago resident Casey Shteamer, 26, got the boot on Monday’s “Bachelor” after she was busted for carrying a torch for an old — or perhaps not so old — flame.
“Casey told Harrison that she’d broken up with Michael a year ago because he didn’t want to get married, and the couple later got back together. She denied that they were still in a relationship. Casey did, however, fess up to hoping that Michael would have a change of heart when it came to marrying her.”
http://www.suntimes.com/entertainment/television/10492624-421/bachelor-news-caseys-old-and-current-flame-is-chicago-trader.html
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She cried. It was glorious.
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what’s funny is that if you play it right, she’ll have no idea how you got her to start qualifying herself to you.
Also, anyone knows that women love mystery and intrigue just like a kitten plays with a string. Give them a a string to play with, and they’ll go forever. Toss the string on the table up front, and there’s nothing to play with.
Women love “play” just like a dog likes to play fetch, or wrestle its owner over a chewtoy. Give them a game to play, be a puzzle, make it fun. They truly cannot help themselves.
At that point, that’s pretty fun for me too. Everybody wins.
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That’s just cuz YOU are so hot, even guys want to fuck you.
Hey – you SHOULD call your theory “String Theory” or some shit like that.
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Is it possible to act coy and use direct night game?
I guess I can see a scenario where you approach a girl, call her “adorable,” introduce yourself, then neg her while she shows some emotional malleability. This allows you some breathing room to withdraw into coyness.
Take one step back to take two steps forward?
Anybody more experienced see a flaw in the above logic? I’ve been at this for about four months now.
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The paradox: men have to approach and create substance to a conversation and be coy at the same time.
[heartiste: yes. it’s not so easy, which is why most men are not good at it. men have to make the first move (unless you are in the top 1% of alphaness) while at the same time not telegraphing too transparently that they want to have sex with the girl. men need to perfect the art of plausible deniability, iow.]
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even if you’re in the 1% of alphaness, alot of girls will be too scared to make the first move…
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Excellent point(s). Just today I was thinking of something similar. Not a paradox as much as opposing opinions.
One school of thought holds that realy hot women are used to being approached by a multitude of guys, and therefore aloofness/coyness is the way to “attack” them.
Another school holds the opposite. Hot girls never get approached because they’re too intimidating, and therefore approaching them in almost any way is nearly a sure thing.
Both seem plausible. I wonder if there is some way to reconcile these two positions.
[heartiste: attractive girls do get hit on more than unattractive girls. that’s practically a tautology, but tautologies are simply distillations of great truths. here’s where it gets counterintuitive: the relationship between a girl’s number of proactive suitors and her beauty is nonlinear.
imagine a bell curve shifted to the right tail. at looks level 0,1,2 and 3 almost no men will hit on those girls unless it is garbage hour at the club and the leftover men are really drunk. these ugly chicks occupy the long-tailed left side of the curve.
at looks level 4,5 and 6, a gradual increase in getting hit on is seen among these girls. they occupy the rising left side of the curve.
at looks level 7 and 8, the number of proactive male suitors shoots way up. here is where the relationship between a woman’s looks and the number of times she gets hit on peaks. these girls occupy the fattest part of the bell curve.
now things start to get interesting. at looks level 9, the number of times a girl gets hit on is LESS than the number of times an 8 girl gets hit on (although still much higher than the number of times an ugly girl gets hit on). this is because 9s are so hot, they intimidate even higher value men into hesitancy. men simply automatically assume these women are taken.
at the rarefied looks level 10, the curve drops off. very few men have the balls to approach a 10. which accounts for the observation that 10s will sometimes go out with much uglier or lower status men, simply because those men, of all the thousands of men who could have but didn’t, had the brass balls to hit on them.
since 10s and to a lesser extent 9s are so rare in the general female population, it’s most efficient to tailor your game to emphasize coyness and aloofness. also, while there are a few 10s who almost never get hit on, when they do get hit on, it’s usually by very high value men. the high value of their proactive suitors makes up for the lower overall numbers of proactive suitors, so that direct approaching them is not really the sure thing that guys who subscribe to that direct game school of thought think it is.
and it’s also good to keep in mind that, despite the intimidation factor, good looking girls get hit on a lot more — maybe a couple of orders of magnitude more — than ugly girls.
i mean, guys aren’t blind.]
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Maybe it can be a solution:
“Pretend” that you are just sociable: you like to meet new people and make new friends (independently of the gender). Then you can be coy and show indirectly that you have high standards for sex partners and it’s not easy to reach you intimacy.
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If you’re going to be coy, why bother with introducing yourself?
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personaly i never approached a woman and call her pretty upright, i learned not to do that the hard way I was once talking to this girl and were only on the attraction-building phase and then I started telling her about how young she looks for her age and she replies: “oh here we go again..” and whats so bad about that? whats so bad about that is that she means: “Oh my GOd another beta who has no backbone at all is trying to pick me up because he is so lonely and he has no women” so then I instatntly fliped it and then neged her and now we’re on the right track but
i had to admit that was a close one. Had I done that to a meaner chick and she’ll walk away, my point is this, if you still at the level of being confused wheter that will work or not, you are probably at the level wherein you will be eaten alive if you use that and if you are asking if that will work it is most probable that you are not testing it instead you sit there and ask people, what I suggest you do is you go out tonight then go to a place you dont normally go to (that will be your testing grounds) then try your idea out with some approaches, and put your self on a mindset wherein you expect rejection, and you might be surprised maybe that will work for your style.
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Honestly, when a play like that doesn’t work it’s usually because of the player not the play. Girls aren’t dumb. If you’re “acting” coy but you’re really feeling are otherwise, they’ll know. And the trouble is, you won’t always be aware that you seem a lot more desperate than you feel.
This has been written to death. Me, I don’t even think about game anymore. I’ve done enough of it that one more tactical play won’t give me any kind of major benefit. All I concentrate on is being genuine – genuinely indifferent. Game is method acting, you have to be alpha to your very core. Tactics are fun, but if they’re not working then think high level: strategy and attitude.
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*concentrating* on being “genuinely indifferent”…
the male hamster speaks!
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thats a good one
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Genuine indifference would imply you would never approach. This is the tension I experience in attempting to meet women. Most women bore me (and I am oriented towards relationships with women who stimulate and challenge me). As such indifference is essentially my general orientation to most women out there. But when I focus on such indifference I lose the motivation to approach.
A related tension highlighted above is the attempt to remain coy and uninvested when you are clearly communicating interest by the approach. Why are you talking to her in particular? If she’s an 8 or 9 she knows exactly why.
[heartiste: she knows, but that doesn’t mean you have to make your intentions obvious. in fact, you can use a woman’s automatic suspicions against her. she assumes you want to fuck her when you approach, so when you then neg her or disqualify her (or yourself) it makes her very curious about you.]
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Yeah, you guys are taking the wrong meaning out of my use of the word indifferent. Outcome-independence is probably the more correct term. Not giving up social power by avoiding inappropriately timing re: your investment in the interaction is probably another way to describe it.
But it’s like watching a really good actor: game is such a complex set of behaviours that you kinda just know it when you see it. Your conscious, linear brain can’t easily grip that stuff up.
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Outcome independence necessitates indifference. If you are truly uninvested in the outcome then you are necessarily indifferent to your target as well. Hence the tension between that kind of aloofness and approaching. If you REALLY didn’t care about the outcome of the interaction why would you approach at all?
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yes thats correct why didnt i think of that? But thats YOUR level, as you can see were giving advice to anonymous who by judging by his question is a beginnner, now a beginner has (naturaly) some things that he needs to be conscious of until they become natural and that includes giving away compliments early on which will hardly work at his level i hope thats comprehended
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The study is fundamentally flawed. Read the description of the experiment: “For the study, 28 women and 26 men of college age watched video clips of couples interacting on speed dates”. In other words, the subjects were able to observe BOTH the man and the woman in any given interaction. So naturally, it is easier to predict whether the man is interested, simply from the looks of the woman. As you correctly argue, this is the single best predictor of male-to-female attraction, whereas the triggers of female-to-male attraction are far less obvious to the observer. A classic case of statistical confounding which completely invalidates the findings. Can’t believe this crap got published.
Obviously this does not mean that the result does not hold, only that the study does little to prove it. Personally however I believe that a correctly designed study (in which the subjects only observe either the male OR the female) might find exactly the opposite. I don’t have evidence to back this up either, but least I’ll admit that 😉
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“Men sell, women buy. Men market, women browse. This is the current that carries courtship over hormonally-tossed helical seas.”
For all my years in sales, I never thought of putting it that way, but then again, there’s a lot to be said about the fact that most guys in our selling department are pulling a hell of a lot more ladies than management and accounting.
Guess once you’re in that business you start seeing everything as a social de-construction challenge.
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Not sure if I’m following the italicized female thought process.
Doesn’t the art of insinuating you are the one being chased require the asking of questions?
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So how exactly does being coy and judgmental come to terms with non evaluative listening? Both were proposed as effective game tactics in recent posts, but they are complete opposites.
[heartiste: no they’re not. how much of yourself are you revealing when you repeat a women’s statements back to her, as you would do when listening in a non-evaluative manner?
also, keep in mind that male coyness is an EARLY GAME tactic. once a man is in the comfort stage, his game tactics change.]
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I wonder how many of these questions can be answered if people just picked up a copy of mystery method or another basic seduction book.
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Do you recommend any particular book? I don’t really know what you mean by “a copy of mystery method” because to the best of my knowledge Mystery has written more than one book about his method.
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Isn’t it the opposite?
Early game tatics: boldness to approach (opposite of coyness)
After: DHV using coyness, showing that you may be not so interested.
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So, I’m not good at getting the woman to talk, at extracting information from her.
You know how lawyers are good at asking questions? I think that is a very important skill. Currently, I lack it. Does anybody have an good methods they use to get the girl to be the one talking, and chatting TO YOU?
I think this is key.
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A really funny way to neg girls is by telling them they are beautiful…on the inside.
We were playing some team-based board game in english class a few months ago. Just as we surpassed the other team, I dropped the line “It’s OK, you are still beautiful on the inside”, aimed specifically at the girl sitting opposite me, who has a massive attitude and is very sassy.
Being the narcissist she is, she smiled and went “aawwwww” as soon as I said “You’re still beautiful”, before realizing I had followed it up with something that suggested her primary value was not her physical features. When she realized, she seemed taken aback, unable to conjure up a comeback.
Basically: I made her fall right into a trap of making herself seem like a shallow bitch while retaining plausible deniability. Being beautiful on the inside is a compliment, right? Yet it was abundantly clear from her reaction she did not take it as such.
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Damn you just hit that gone outta the park. Will run for post of 2012, keep crankin’.
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I’m not even sure what (if anything) is “natural” at this point. The short version, is that 1950’s America is completely finished now, down to a biological level.
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This post made me so excited I only read half so far. This is so damn important but so damn hard at times. When you catch yourself doing it right you can feel so damn evil. Woman are naturals at it. Fucking pay attention fags.
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I would show value at first without too much interest until she qualifies. Then you suck her in with more coy comfort. As she brings it you open up and like back more. Then more until sex if that is what you want right away.
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Then the pussy married man spills his guts and finds a way to give up hand. The loner cheat slides in the back door and bangs said sad married man’s wife. Married man kisses dirty whore wife in the mouth.
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I want to make it a point that this is not “dress/smell nice and wait for her to approach” strategy omegas wish for.
[heartiste: tell me about it. i’m sure the tard contingent will read this post and immediately think it confirms their warped worldview that only incredibly good-looking men who can stand around doing nothing to attract women are the ones who get laid. there’s no… nuance… in their thinking.]
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CH,
This gets to the core of my problem with being coy. It too easily turns into passivity. I’m more comfortable trying to move the ball downfield on my own, not waiting to react to one of her moves. Yeah, intellectually, I get what coyness is about,. But, God, does it feel awkward. Like using my non-dominant hand to jack off.
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Good point.
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How can I be coy? What are some basic guidelines?
[heartiste:
GIRL: what do you do for work?
YOU: already with the fifty questions. tell you what, let’s talk about something different than 99% of the people in this town talk about.]
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What about this:
GIRL: what do you do for work?
YOU: already with the fifty questions. tell you what, let’s talk about something that no one in this town is talking about.
GIRL: Like what?
YOU: You.
[heartiste: lol. we have a weiner!]
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“Romantic poetry and sweeping odes are man’s attempt to elevate this sordid and banal clanking of the machinery of genetic legacy beyond the realm of disappointment.”
Pure gold. That should be carved into the entrance of every college literature department in the world. Also: think of all the new work available spitting out exegeses of canonical works based on Game. Also: heads exploding. Many many heads exploding.
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That’s the essence of Fly, Fresh, and Young’s Piranha Frenzy
http://flyfreshandyoung.wordpress.com/2011/11/14/the-piranha-frenzy/
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I don’t get it. Can you give some example of coy behavior in relation to game?
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sestamibi
Uh-uh. Men buy, women sell. And it’s always a seller’s market.
on February 7, 2012 at 4:25 pm | ReplyTmason
Anytime you are the buyer you are in the position of power.
on February 7, 2012 at 4:35 pm | Replyevilalpha
Tell that to a crackhead.
on February 7, 2012 at 4:47 pm | ReplyTmason
Their not really a buyer at that point. More like a hostage.
^^^^^^
literally made me lol
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Why does every girl in the world wanna date me?
Specially right now man, specially when I’m busy
Tell me that they love me, then they try to kiss me
Baby don’t you see me? Knee-deep in that dope game
Meaning that I’m dope mane, hotter than that propane
Hotter than that propane, yes I said it twice dude
Always on the move I love the Journey like a white dude
Yes I know I’m quite rude, arrogant as alva
But I have the decency to back all of my words up
So let’s not pretend like every girl don’t wanna be ya
You can be my Ms. Obama minus Sasha and Maliya ugh!
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So women are flirtatious when they’re not interested. How can we tell when this happens, and what should we do about it?
[heartiste: this is why the PUA community stresses observing women’s nonverbal cues (called IOIs) for evidence of real attraction. nonverbal cues are a better signal of interest than flirtatious verbal sparring. see the archives for instances of IOIs.]
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I ask myself and Heartiste this then:
Is Game something that hacks nature, something “super-natural”? Or is it a natural tool of nature itself that separates the fit from the disposable?
[heartiste: ultimately, everything under the sun and borne of human mind is a tool of nature to separate the fit from the disposable.]
Has Man invented Game to ascend over nature or has Man merely revealed the mechanism inherent in nature?
[by discovering and revealing the mechanism, man has ascended. but not over nature. rather, with nature.]
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I’d like to share an interview between Richard Spencer and Jonathon Bowden. Feminism is discussed with a high degree of intellectualism; the interview is definitely worth a listen. Click on the Audio/Video tab:
http://www.alternativeright.com/altright-radio/the-feminist-mystique/
For those unfamiliar with Jonathon Bowden, he’s a masterful rhetorician.Below is a link to one of his best orations, in my opinion:
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But, if you’re extremely shy (as I am), coyness doesn’t help you and might just leave you blue-balled and alone and dependent on porn. If youre too coy she might think youre not interested in her. I have the same issue with aloof game. Perhaps if I’d learned to recalibrate my shyness into coyness, girls would’ve paid more attention to me.
[heartiste: coyness and shyness are not synonyms. a coy man engages with women. a shy man disengages with women. shyness is about not saying a thing. coyness is about not saying a thing she expects to hear.]
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Also, you may need to get rid of the shyness first before focusing on coyness.
Shyness in men is like anti-game and is instantly seen as a leading indicator of beta/omega behavior.
As a disclaimer: Men who are shy get women but other factors must compensate.
I would work to be “average” first where you can confortably approach women without too much anxiety.
Coyness I would consider to be intermediate to advanced game.
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Ahh, I see. A cursory google search showed me that a common definition of coy describes it as the affectation or pretense of shyness (as opposed to genuine shyness). I see how an otherwise confident alpha could play coy to get the hamster running.
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Would be nice to have concrete examples of new coy behavior replacing commonplace old ones
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Yes, I too would appreciate examples.
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Off topic, but has anyone been following the rape accusation against anchor Greg Kelly? Warning bells went off when the “victim” approached police 3 months after the fact.
All is not lost however: charges have been dropped, and even the NY Post wrote a great article which can be summed up in a way that Heartiste would approve of: Regret is not rape.
http://www.nypost.com/columnists/andreapeyser
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Sorry, this is the correct link:
Getting jilted & crying rape doesn’t fly
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/getting_jilted_crying_rape_doesn_csRp9G0Rh8XGBx3QgQzyiI
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Rhett Butler is an excellent example of this. He’s coy until he is in a position to get what he wants, then he unapologetically just takes it.
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I’ve been a follower for months now and i’m unsure of how to get my own handle. I’d love to contribute to the comments.
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Can anyone quickly explain how to get a handle/alias/moniker whatever you call it….here at the cheateau? So that i can post as someone other than anonymous..
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The distinction between coyness and shyness is a very valid stumbling block for those new to the game. Many of the core concepts of game seem paradoxical. Instead of there being a concrete, solid set of instructions (male brain at work), approaching and ultimately seducing women is a fluid, changeable process..which requires a well refined ability to adapt to new info. I’m greatly inspired by the phrase “Active Disinterest”, coined by Mystery, i do believe.
[heartiste: “active disinterest” is actually a very good alternate term for coyness.]
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