Aristophenes writes:
I want to solicit a bit of advice from the commentariat here. I’m 31, married with two young children. I have a high-status career (I’m in a prestigious doctoral program, and I write for a number of elite publications), I am of average, or maybe above average looks, I dress well, and I comport myself well in conversation. I am not intimidated by famous intellectuals or beautiful women.
However: I married my wife when I was 23 – we were both intensely religious and virgins at the time. Since then my religiosity has waned, my wife has gained a good deal of weight, and I’ve become deeply discontented with my sexless, passionless life.
A few months ago, during a long, boozy night at the bar with some colleagues, a couple of my more attractive (and militantly feminist!) female colleagues opened up about their frustration at the lack of masculine men in our department. I drove one of them home, and when we pulled up to her place, I kissed her and told her I intended to have sex with her. There immediately followed two delightful hours of adultery. Since then I’ve slept with another young woman, and have fooled around on a couple of other occasions. I am shocked by the easy availability of sex, given my nearly decade-long struggle to get laid within marriage.
So far, this change has had positive ramifications for my marriage. My wife doesn’t know everything, but she knows that “things” have happened. At the same time, I’ve become more assertive and less whiny / pitiable. I demand sex more, and she seems pleased. She’s known for years that I want her to lose weight, but she’s starting to make some minimal efforts now.
However good things get, though, this will never be ideal. My wife was not an attractive woman when I married her (I didn’t think that mattered then – see religiosity) and she’s not aging well. I will always live with the knowledge that I have much more beautiful, intelligent, elegant women, who more closely share my interests, and are more impressed with my accomplishments. All things being equal, I’d leave tomorrow. But they’re not equal. I am entirely smitten with our son and daughter, and cannot countenance the possibility of their growing up without a father. So here I am.
Here, finally, is the question: Should I keep up with the extramarital dalliances, hoping to effect a sort of Mad Men modus vivendi, in which a lackluster marriage is supplemented by suspected but politely hidden infidelity? Or should I man up, and fight to suppress my wanderlust, contenting myself with what gains can be made at home? I can see pluses and minuses on either side. What do you gents think?
Frenchmen do it right. Have mistresses, but be discreet about it. Aging wives don’t want it shoved in their faces; they want to let their hamsters whir with hints, thoughts, painfully delicious imaginings that their husbands might be cheating on them. This strategy has the dual benefit of satisfying the man’s natural and completely normal urge for pussy variety while keeping the home and hearth stable and reigniting the marriage with the wife’s newfound dread-induced passion.
But the reader is in a predicament; namely, his wife’s weight gain has made her less attractive to him, and she wasn’t that attractive to begin with. (For the ladies in the audience: your weight gain is as mood-killing for men as a man’s weakness and wishy-washiness is mood-killing for you.) Plus, he’s got hotter, younger hopefuls auditioning for his meaty intrusion. Very few men can withstand that one-two punch to their virtuous restraint.
His problem is the reason why men should not even consider marriage until they are well into their 30s, and then only with women at least eight to ten years younger. A man hits his SMV stride more than a decade — oftentimes two decades! — after a woman hits hers, so it makes sense that men are best served cashing in their chips at the height of their power for women at the height of their power. That is, if chip cashing is what he wants. I’m not keen on marriage so I will generally counsel men that they can get all the comforts and love of marriage without signing a legal contract that obligates them to finance an early retirement plan for the wife should she initiate divorce theft proceedings (70-90% of divorces are female-initiated.)
But this guy is a religious bloke and he wanted kids. If kids are in your future, then marriage is the price you pay to ensure the striplings grow up mentally healthy and shielded from the allure of huffing paint or gobbling cock behind the 7-11. He didn’t say how young his kids are, so assuming they are still forming their identities, I would not advise him to abort the marriage. He needs to stick it out for a while longer.
What the reader needs to do to avoid crippling depression is the male equivalent of Eat, Pray, Love: Meat, Lay, Rove. He’s hitting on all cylinders at this moment in his life and it would be a terrible sacrifice to ask of him — on par with requiring a feminist to carry a rapist’s unwanted baby to term, or to have sex with a bitter omega male for ever and ever — to linger for years in his loveless, sexually arid marriage with a fat, unattractive wife. I suggest many “business trips” to exotic locales where he can sate his desire with beautiful lovers and more easily hide his dalliances from the wife. He should continue pushing his wife to lose weight and hinting ever-so-unsubtly at his growing array of sexual market options.
The very real risk of Meat, Lay, Rove is that our intrepid reader will likely fall in love with one of his darlings. Men tend to do that with women they find sexually irresistible. Down that road lies irretrievably broken marriages, for a wife fears a betrayal of love far more than a physical infidelity.
In the end, he will have to answer to his god, and ask him why he was given a working penis if he was meant to suffer unhappily in a sexless marriage with a fat sow.
With student debt at record levels, I’d recommend he find a Bernankified cutie and support her. That way, he gets some “in-town” for maybe only $1000/month in support. But the travel is a good idea too!
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It’s not clear he has money. He’s some sort of academic. He has prestige, but not money. He might be able to seduce women, but not support concubines.
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Fair point. I was speaking more generally, but you are likely correct about the specifics (although keep in mind there are academics with plenty of money!).
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He can easily go the Schwyzer route and appreciate his students’ abilities.
“Let her get an A for Effort”!
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He’ll dump her (she won’t lose weight) for one of those chippies.
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Awesome anecdote. Can you address why his ugly wife was not having sex with him for the last decade? He seems like a catch, but is a wife blind to that? All she sees are his beta ways, which he only now seems to be shedding (thanks to blogs like this)
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Wondering what a thin sow would look like.
[heartiste: less cutting.]
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My life is boring. I want my husband to cheat on me just for some excitement.
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Why don’t you cheat on him?
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I’ve though about it, but never have. It is mostly due to lack of opportunity or desire. Plus, when you have young children, you are tied up with them. In my class (upper middle), I think the women most likely to cheat are probably young, childless newlyweds.
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Why not just tell him you desire excitement and have him dominate you?
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It isn’t easy to change a relationship dynamic once it’s established. I am going to take Fred’s advice and get a hobby.
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lara–im a master knitter and needlepoint and cross stitch voraciously and my husband dominates the shit out of me–try both! lol
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> have him dominate you?
The rush comes in part from relinquishing some level of responsibility. If you have to make him do it, it’s not the same.
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Dana
Do you allow your husband to choke you ?
What exactly do you mean by your husband dominates the “s” out of you?
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Chick noir, go eat a bag of dicks. Then, for dessert, go rub clicadas with Jenny Hao and Lady Raine.
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I’m sure you’re just joking around, Lara. But wouldn’t it be better for everyone involved if your kneejerk response for curing boredom *wasn’t* something that caused immense destruction of lives and trust and society?
Now take me, for instance, Lara… like all people, I get bored sometimes, too. So I decided to take piano lessons. Not very dramatic, to be sure, and certainly not something we’d ever put in the same league as the exploits of our new superherogrrrl Katniss. But I’ve cured my boredom without carelessly ruining lives.
So take a tip from Fred Rotten: learn piano.
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Just read some thrilling novels about a sexy rapist or something.
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Please don’t… get a Hitachi Magic Wand for excitement intstead. Everyone (including yourself) will thank you for it. Destroy your life and that of your loved ones? You DON’T want to do that, to even think about it. Seriously.
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Here’s a novel idea: tell him he’s being a pussy. Explain things logically. Most men will get it.
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this is a joke, yes?
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I explained my boyfriend that some hair pulling, booty spanking and him bossing me around in bed will result me in being happier and more sexually fullfiled. I explained him how dominance is a natural turn-on for women and most of us are hardwired to enjoy submission. Well, let’s say he understood quickly and I enjoy it plentifully. Things can be said with logic and tact to non-mongoloid men.
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Some of the best prose you’ve written in quite a while. CH. “Meaty intrusion” and “meat, lay, rove” are going into the vault.
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Alongside “huffing paint and gobbling cock behind the 7-11” no doubt. I assume the former refers to the beta son and the latter to the daughter. Unless you REALLY got problems!
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“huffing paint and gobbling cock behind the 7-11″
I see the Rose still has a way with words LOLROF.
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A man should get all the quality tail he can, while he can. His wife let herself go because she thought he wasn’t man enough to go out and get a man’s share. You will almost certainly get “caught” eventually, though. Depending on how you handle it, that can be a good thing.
Generally, the wife or long-term girlfriend wants to know what you got with the others that you couldn’t have gotten from her. 1. Any sex at all, bitch, and right when you wanted it, and 2. Show her. Tell her if she really wants to know, she’ll shut up for an hour no matter what you do to her. Drag her by the hair to the bed and get yours. If she objects after that, dump her ass.
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I’m glad you are the first one to mention that he is almost certainly likely to get caught in his adultries. He must avoid “falling in love” with the other woman too at least as long as his children are still minors and maybe forever. He needs to find a way to hide these adultries. Hell hath no fury of a woman scorned. Divorce especially with minor children is not cheap, Gentlemen. It often cost more than you could have ever guessed in ways you could have never guessed. You are also right that he needs to somehow make it acceptable even if just barely with his wife should he ever be caught in his adultries lest she destroy him through divorce, child support, alimony, division of assets social shaming etc. Actually, I would advise him to commit as few adultries as possible from this point on up to and including zero to avoid the pitfalls.
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That’s why you DON’T get married ever, or ever again. Never!
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I fully endorse what you say. Never get marriedif you are a man in the USA and even the rest of the 1st World Nations.. If you are a married man, do what you can to save your marriage. If you are a divorced man or a widowed man, never marry again in the USA and 1st World developed nations.
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wtf kind of western legacy do we leave, when nobody can spell “Aristophanes” correctly.
I bet he knows how to spell
Justin Beeeber
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Yeah, this post is for The Birds. Or maybe The Wasps. Certainly not Lysistrata!
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Brek-kek-kek-kek. Koax.
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Both spellngs are correct. Greek uses a different alphabet, remember?
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Apparently, today – Greeks use even a different
government accounting system, too.
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They use a different hole,too.
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I got that. Pretty funny. Aristophenes should figure out what that means too. Less chance of falling in love and getting caught.
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No, they aren’t. The fourth letter from the end is an alpha in the original, which corresponds to an “a” in the Latin alphabet. The name is properly spelled “Aristophanes”.
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SnogHaw: for exactly those beta reasons
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All the good intentions and religious convictions in the world seem to fall short when it comes down to the fact that you have a massive sex drive and hot chicks everywhere that want a piece of it.
The Chateau’s conclusion is spot-on, so I have not much more I can add. I would say that his only hope would be to become fully Dominant with his wife and train her in the things he requires, including health and weight loss, and other elements of behavior. He must also recognize that his wife is much more likely to step out on him and also cheat, and initiate the cash-and-prizes extraction process at some point.
He just need to make choices with his eyes wide open, and find a way to reconcile his vows and faith and his own convictions with the conflicting issue of wanting to slay some young tail.
At the very least, I think that being straight with people like his wife is important. He must also be straight with himself. No lies, no spin, no bullshit. Call it what it is and have the stones to make the choices that he arrives at with as much honor as possible. When its all said and done,he must find a way to do things in a way that do not violate his conscience, or cause undue harm.
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He’s gotta be damn sure that if he is straight with his wife that she won’t freak and use his kids against him. If she has any crazy inclinations his actions and her subsequent actions could destroy them. It sounds like his kids are his biggest priority. Gotta be damn sure they don’t find out.
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Marrying a woman your own age is stupid and short-sighted.
Marrying a woman you don’t deem attractive enough is stupid and short-sighted.
Besides, initiating a divorce when you have kids and when the wife did nothing wrong is not manly. Becoming fat is not a reason. If you gamed her right, she would have stayed fit.
Keep her on the side, as a companion of honor. If she gets tired of your infidelities, she’ll be free to leave. If not, assume responsibility for your own mistakes and take one for the kids.
As much as I grew cynical reading CH, and as much as I don’t believe in marriage under the current legal paradigm, I still believe in family values.
It’s up to the man, only the man, to keep the family united. Women are like children, you can’t expect reason from them, nor responsibility.
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“Besides, initiating a divorce when you have kids and when the wife did nothing wrong is not manly. Becoming fat is not a reason. If you gamed her right, she would have stayed fit.”
Very true!
“Keep her on the side, as a companion of honor.”
Sorry, but the other girl will want him for herself. Maybe she’ll want to marry him and have kids … What is he going to do?
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Move to Utah?
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The ho’s gonna have to suck it up. In South America, this is so commonplace it is almost assumed that any man above a certain social standing has this sort of arrangement.
“La señora” and “la familia” are sacrosanct. They’re for church and official functions. “La querida” gets a spending allowance. A lot of telenovela drama proceeds from this, as number two invariably attempts to become number one. Doesn’t work. Latin men aren’t gringo pussies to do something like that.
If the whore does something stupid like show up at church with a bastard in tow, he simply replaces her and she can go back to the tar-paper shack or the low-level secretarial pool where he found her. What she can’t do is marry a Mexican beta. Ever.
BTW – upper class Latin American housewives make enthusiastic lovers for unattached gringos of a certain panache, but damn! you have to be so discreet as to be practically invisible. Cuckolding Latin alphas where the government and the Mafia are often the same people can result in a very short life span.
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+1
This is the path I have chosen.
Married with kids and I have made the decision to stay married and hold the family together. Will I ever get divorced? Maybe, maybe not. Anyway, I keep it very discreet and I have a preference for long term affairs. 2 so far, 2 years and the second about a year and a half.
Works for me, but your mileage may vary.
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Ditto that. Hard to find someone though. Hoping this “game” stuff will help.
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He should let himself fall in love with one of those beautiful, elegant girls. And then tell his wife that he can’t do anything about this. He says that his wife was ugly even when she was slim and young … why did he marry a girl he wasn’t in love with?!
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“why did he marry a girl he wasn’t in love with?!”
No inner game – not enough confidence with the women he really wanted? He ‘settled’ – too early.
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“why did he marry a girl he wasn’t in love with?!”
Does it occur to you that by her actions …
SHE married a guy she wasn’t in love with?!
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We don’t know. Maybe she has low libido because she has small kids and because she’s fat!
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She’s gobbling twinkees when she should be gobbling cock!
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This is not related to the post, but I think it deserves discussion. It is a marriage announcement from last Sunday’s Washington Post. Check out how she friendzoned the guy for years, and even says “he was just a nice guy and and, you know, girls like the guys who ignore them and don’t call them back.” They got married eventually, so I guess he won the prize in the end. Heh.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/weddings/on-love-youre-perfect-for-me-youre-my-counterpoint/2012/03/29/gIQA37LwlS_story.html?sub=AR
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That is revolting. I can’t imagine being used like that…being cast as Josh Hartnett in her own personal little romantic comedy.
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No, betas never win “in the end”. It’s just the beginning.
Ellen Shatzen will shat on him in the end. But not until she pumps out 2.5 kids, goes back to fucking bad boys, falls out of love, and collects her divorce reward from him.
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I smell “divorce rape” is his future… or being tied to a chair as Ellen screams “Fill Me, Fill Me with You Black CUM!!!” to 3 black stud fucking her while she’s ovulating, whichever. He’ll end-up broke and alone, paying her to raise kids which may or may not be his.
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There should be a corollary to his other maxim about your pickup lines being shown on a big screen in public: If your “love” story can’t be read without cringe-inducement and ball-retraction, you failed at life.
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WOW. Amazing article. Hey, let’s all comment under that article. This is cringe-worthy.
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I will have to defend Mr. Johnson to an extent. He ignored her and wouldn’t put up with her sh*t. Good for him. Hopefully he keeps that going in the marriage so that she doesn’t drink and fuck behind his back. I really hope so or else the poor guy is hosed.
The happy bride went to U of Florida. I bet she got nailed by the football team. Well, probably not Tim Tebow, but the rest of the team. BITCH!!!
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I wonder how many shafts she shafted, before she decided to shaft this one.
Getting the girl “in the end” … when she has had her end put away many times previously … is not a happy end.
The end.
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Shatzen? is she jewish? God help this guy!
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BAHAHAHAHAH CH, SPEARHEAD, AND /r/MensRights SAVED ME FROM BEING THIS STUPID!!!
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A very pragmatic case study in SMV differentials. The big risk for our intrepid Aristophenes is that the fat wife will get uppity and throw a divorce lawyer in the mix. It sounds like that for this couple, religious reasons preclude divorce, so the odds are already low. Even so, I’d keep things discrete.
With enough married-man game, e.g. maintaining hand, never admitting a thing, etc, Aristophenes may be able to keep the divorce butthex at bay.
And, as Heartiste says, don’t catch feelings for your mistresses. That would complicate things much more. Further, you have to watch out that your mistresses don’t catch feelings for you. I hate to say it, but It’s probably better to embrace the player lifestyle, and use day & night game to meet cuties for short-term relationships. The longer you remain in flagrante delicto with your mistresses, the more likely they will be to catch feelings.
There will be no faster, uglier way for your wife to find out about your dalliances than if told by a spurned lover. So, keep it short & sweet, and don’t bang too many colleagues at work. The advice above for lots of ‘work trips’ to exotic places is spot on.
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I second CH’s advise and reemphasize that you must never let it be known to her or anyone that you are having an affair. From experience:
Be very careful. The worst thing is to have it go public and embarrass her. She will make you pay dearly. Never tell anyone your secrets. Screen your mistresses well. Don’t get sloppy and forget your cover. Never be so desperate to see her that you compromise the covertness of the affair.
Try not to neglect your wife. Stay engaged with her emotions and give it to her as good as she’ll take it.
Don’t go beta on your lovers. Don’t fall in love with them. Know when to back off before getting too deep. Always be willing to end it. Enjoy the seduction and the affair for what it is, and don’t make anything more of it.
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Yep. There are books on how to do this. Do never have sex at your place, or your g/f’s. Take out new credit cards for the expenses and have the bills sent to a P.O. box. Learn how to scrub your computer. Put yourself in your wife’s place, and think “my hubby is stepping out…how can I find out?” Talk to a private detective and ask how he would try to find out if she hired him. Sounds paranoid, but it’s a lot cheaper than 50%+ of your assets and years of ass-rape.
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I want to reiterate Flahute’s points.
Never tell. Never tell anyone, not your brother, not your best friend, not your war buddy. No one.
Don’t get caught. Don’t make any mistake that would put you in a position to get caught.
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Hah. Some have taken me into their confidence.
Since women are equal to men … I see no reason why I should support the idea that sluts should be married while decent men get no play.
“Never tell anyone who isn’t an MRA/MGTOW/PUA” should be an addendum to your sentence.
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I would still say that it’s safer to shut up about it. Even with PUA friends, I’d still shut up about it. Don’t ask, don’t tell.
The guy married so young that he’s F-d when it comes to cover stories. If he had married at 30, with 10 years of girls under his belt, he could have passed off new conquest stories as old stories with his PUA friends (who obviously know it’s a new story), and anyone listening in would be none the wiser.
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“His problem is the reason why men should not even consider marriage until they are well into their 30s, and then only with women at least eight to ten years younger.”
So women should also focus on men 8-10 years older? I only meet guys 1-5 years older … is this enough?
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No.
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Why not?
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Because.
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Because younger men (men under 35) generally don’t have as much money, power, and dominance.
You can thank the soup kitchen elites of the left for encouraging women to be either fat, dependent losers or hideously aggro man-woman lawyercrones.
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He should be using that doctoral program to teach some undergrads and have 19 year old ass fawning over him. No need to travel when you have delivery.
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While it happens, it’s a great way to spectacularly detonate both your career and your bank account. Faculty committees don’t react well to this at all if she goes haywire and it goes public.
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Then he could have a second act as a repentant feminist academic celebrity– a move called “The Schwyzer.”
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Yeah, TAs can screw their students b/c they have nothing to lose anyway. Putting career and family in the hands of a 19yo is a disaster, especially the 19yos we have these days.
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You don’t shit where you eat.
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Most still get hot 19-year-old student bodies into anal while “working late” at their offices anyway… they have to BE caught first when most of their collagues are too busy getting pieces of their own to go look.
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It’s hard to feel sorry for this man’s wife, since she refuses to sleep with him. He should try to live in the same house with his kids until they are older. It doesn’t sound like his wife is terrible to live with. Leaving his wife for another woman and committing to her, is just going to put him in the same boat in a few years.
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religious women are pressured to yield, sexually and otherwise, to their husbands. why this 30-something woman is not sleeping with him seems odd. even if she’s tuckered out running after kids, i would think most religious women would just try to be good sports.
he should definitely have guilt tripped her into compliance in the past. that he was passive for so long tells me there’s more to the story.
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Most churches don’t teach this to women any more carolyn. They teach more that woman should be pedestalized. It’s a huge reason so many man are leaving and have left the church.
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even the evangelical? from my reading, the ideal of submission is still emphasized. to be sure, we don’t know if the couple under discussion is part of that.
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A few are, but from what I have read and seen, they are becoming fewer are fewer.
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“he should definitely have guilt tripped her into compliance in the past”
Woman-think in its purest form. Have you learned nothing from these blogs ? Get this Carolyn : there is no “guilt-trip” which will make a woman put put. does guilt make you put out ? Only gina-tingles make women put out, and guilt trips don’t make gina tingles. Clear ?
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i’ll ignore the snide tone to get at the heart of the biblical based man-as-leader-of-household message communicated to evangelical types, specifically women here.
don’t you think women are as subject to religious brainwashing in these communities as the men? while i’m not an evangelical, i was raised a strict catholic which probably informs my world view in ways i’m not even aware of. that evangelical women miss the message that their submission to their men is the preferred behavior is hard to believe.
so yeah, women are as subject to guilt-tripping as men are. are you, just as a thought experiment, apt to cheat on your wife because hey what the hell, do it if it feels good? no, unless you are w/o a conscience, you’re likely to do the ‘right thing’, i.e. what your moral upbringing tells you.
women are moral agents too.
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women are moral agents too
LMFAO
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“women are moral agents too”
Have you ever MET any women, Carolyn?
Morale agents, maybe, if they are hot and game enough to work in the Adult Entertainment industry, but MORAL? Tain’t no such animal.
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sigh…
i guess we’ve all been tarred by the same broad brush due to the company you apparently keep.
so some young and amoral airheads have soured you on female redemption? look around. do you know _any_ morally upright women who pay no attention to ‘hampsters’? they are there let me tell you. even if you refuse to consider the possibility. i know a few myself.
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You get the broad brush, until you prove you are different.
It’s better to be safe rather than sorry … is a lesson many men are taking to heart.
After all … you wouldn’t want your husband/boyfriend to be paying alimony to some shrew who lied about paternity, snagging him with “don’t paint us with a broad brush”, amirite?
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why this 30-something woman is not sleeping with him seems odd.
Uh… perhaps because she’s fugly and he can’t get it up?
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she is a closet dyke? I wonder ,is she a fan of womens basketball? Does she go on the internet and write fake stories about Star Trek where Jim and Spock are lovers?
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She’s probably getting ass-humped by one of his hot, single Male collegues with a PhD already… Beta hubby types are always the last to know.
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Doubt it. If you’ll read the article, it’s quite clear that the hubby is a beta-turned-alpha, whereas she’s descending rapidly into old fat warpig status.
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Well, some of those academics are freaky… you never know.
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The wife managed to do a lot wrong, but I’m not sure doing everything right would have helped her. She wasn’t that attractive even when thinner and younger, and even if she took her man’s needs and wants more seriously, he might have realized there are more attractive availible women around him. it would be kinda a male religious fidelity bait&switch… although not intentional.
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There is many ways a physically unattractive woman can make up for her lacking. One is to be pleasant, two is to put out, and three is to make yourself irreplaceable by your man by treating him better than what he’ll find out there in younger ass.
This doesn’t work with all men, but my take is it should help in most instances…
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Or just don’t marry men who don’t know what they are doing. Hard to predict how he’ll act in the future, but I guess he shouldn’t be too young and inexperienced (unless he’s inexperienced due to lack of opportunity).
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Emma, men never know what they want or what they’re doing. They live their lives and try to get their needs met, and if someone meets their needs, they’re content.
Some men aren’t going to be content no matter what. So be it. No need to take that personally. Most men are content however, with a woman who is simply not a bitch.
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His problem is the reason why men should not even consider marriage until they are well into their 30s, and then only with women at least eight to ten years younger. A man hits is SMV stride more than a decade — oftentimes two decades! — after a woman hits hers, so it makes sense that men are best served cashing in their chips at the height of their power for women at the height of their power.
You’re in agreement with the ancient Greek philosophers on this one. Thousands-year-old wisdom from the world’s finest minds is good enough for me.
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1. “this guy is a religious bloke and he wanted kids… marriage is the price you pay to ensure the striplings grow up mentally healthy… He didn’t say how young his kids are, so assuming they are still forming their identities, I would not advise him to abort the marriage. ”
That’s just American religiosity talking. Kids without marriage do just fine. Many Europeans have kids and cohabitate. Even if the father is not in the same house, kids do fine if the father makes an effort.
It’s better to leave early, before the kids become cognizant and wonder why Daddy left.
2. “The very real risk of Meat, Lay, Rove is that our intrepid reader will likely fall in love with one of his darlings… for a wife fears a betrayal of love far more than a physical infidelity.”
The guy doesn’t care about his fat sow of a wife. Her heartbreak is irrelevant. And if he did care, leaving her for a young hottie would be a great lesson because she’ll realize how important it is to take care of her looks. And at least she’d still be young enough to start over.
The real risk for him is marrying a hottie and going beta. If he went beta for a cow, imagine the depths of beta into which he’d fall for a hottie and the eventual divorce rape.
3. He should approach the situation by asking, “WWAWD” (what would a woman do)?
A woman in his situation, out of love with her spouse, would take a lover and divorce her husband as soon as financially pragmatic as possible. If his bank account can absorb the consequences, he should jettison the cow forthwith.
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Why does the word cohabitation sound so unsexy to me? Marriage, adultery, and original sin just sounds hotter.
[heartiste: shacking up sounds sexy. we should go back to calling it that.]
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Agreed.
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I’ll be careful with cohabitation/shacking up due to common law. Many places are slowly angling that in so I’d advice guys to make sure and maintain separate living spaces.
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you really are horny aren’t you
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Prefer “living in sin.” That way, the gets to pretend he has bad boy qualities.
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Spoken likr a true serf.
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“Kids without marriage do just fine. Many Europeans have kids and cohabitate.”
Europe is a decaying shit hole.
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I knew a guy who was cheating on his wife with a much younger, much hotter woman.
Here’s a news story about that: http://www.fox5sandiego.com/kswb-jennifer-trayers-jury-reaches-verdict-in-love-triangle-murder-case-20120208,0,4226999.story
As a way of spicing up a marriage, adultery has its risks.
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Well, it definitely wasn’t boring.
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I wonder if this latest gunman was an embittered omega lashing out against society since most of the victims were women. It wouldn’t be too surprising given his ethnicity is typically characterized by omega traits.
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That’s not an excuse for people to shit on others.
And not very wise if those same others can get firearms.
An armed society, is a polite society 🙂
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He should leave her!
The kids will not huff paint or gobble cock behind 7-11. If he was of low socioeconomic status that might be true given the other variables involved in their upbringing in such situations. But when the kids are raised in a well-to-do, cultured environment the effects won’t be nearly as deleterious. This is of course assuming he stays in their life. (NO girls without dads are OK, and I’m not sure how boys react ’cause I’ve never dated a guy.)
This depends on the mother. Assuming she is fair about things there’s no reason he can’t have them half the week, alternating weeks, every weekend or whatever it might be. I don’t know why they would grow up “without a father,” unless he knows his wife to be that kind of cunt.
What happens one day if his religious beliefs wane all the way to full atheism and he realizes he’s wasted this one go at life he’ll ever have?
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Given the way he’s acting he might as well be an atheist.
Also, if I was married and my wife cheated I’d do my best to make sure she never sees the kids again, and don’t blame any woman who does the same, and she’ll be lucky if I don’t scam her out of everything she has. Doesn’t make someone a cunt, fair’s fair. You betray me, I make you burn like the sun.
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It is different for men. Also, not putting out is betrayal.
Granted, most women don’t see it that way.
It is wrong to use the children as tools of vengeance though, for either party. A cheater isn’t betraying the kids, but their partner.
Time usually takes care of these things though. We all get old. A man may enjoy many benefits during his peak years, but those years will end. At that time, he will face the consequences of his actions.
In my opinion, the discreet player way is the best when one is in a culture unfamiliar with long term affairs. Hit it, forget it, and take your butt home.
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I would say he shouldn’t let her know he cheated in case this happens. But if she has stopped fucking him and let herself go when she’s not even menopausal, he kind of has a justification. I’m not saying it’s the coolest thing, but it’s also not the worst. Women don’t understand how important that is because they’re never taught how not to see things gynocentrically. But he should just avoid the complication altogether and keep it quiet if he can.
But if a parent cheats and the other seeks to keep them out of the kid’s life, it’s the kid who suffers most, so that’s a bit fucked up and incredibly selfish.
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Did he just describe militant feminists as attractive?
Anyway, I feel he should get out the marriage not a moment sooner than now. Odds are this marriage is going to eventually be terminated and it’s even more likely that the wife may initiate it especially if she begins growing exasperated with the extramarital philandering. I suspect that this man will not be able to compartmentalize his sexual relationships with these younger, more attractive women without letting it harm his initial relationship seeing as his experiences with women are exceptionally limited (he married a virgin at age 23!). Men who are already in love with their wives who cheat for the sole sake of variety are much more capable of keeping their emotions detached from their mistresses. In short: I agree he faces the very real risk of falling in love with these hoes which won’t likely bode well for his marriage anyway.
Another reason I say he should get out now is that his status is rapidly increasing and if he waits until he’s making more money to face divorce – he will suffer more financially. I suggest he just gets a good lawyer now and buys her out so he won’t have to pay alimony for the rest of his life and hopefully get a decent deal with regard to visitations. Stay or leave, either way the kids are going to be fucked in some capacity.
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Most likely.
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Loveiseasy’s advice is the best thus far.
If you married not for the sake of love but rather for religion, and if you haven’t experienced the feeling of falling in love with a beautiful woman, then brother, watch out. Since you come to CH, you’ve obviously swallowed the red pill and are now seeing how the sexual market truly functions. There’s no turning back now on sating your sexual and emotional desires with anything other than attractive women. And if you’re out there gaming regularly and taking your punches, then eventually a smart, young, attractive woman is going to land in your lap. After that, you won’t even give your wife the time of day anymore. It’ll be over.
So, what’s it going to be? Ignore your sexual desires and the growing disgust you feel towards your wife for the sake of the family, or fuck it and live only once. Yeah, I thought so.
You don’t got much money now. Your income potential will grow exponentially once you finish your doctorate (likely post doc). That means that you won’t get raped as badly during the divorce.
Your SMV is increasing as we speak. Trust me, I’m 33 and it’s so much easier now to meet and bed quality women than in my 20s. If you’re going into academia, there is no end to quality, young women you can bang that become infatuated with professors since profs have situational confidence. You’ve already tried the marriage thing and sired some offspring, now you can enjoy something else and not have the pressure of finding a wife and raising a family anymore. Obviously be a good dad to your kids and remain a constant in their lives. If they’re young, they’ll acclimate themselves to the new household soon enough.
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The classroom scene from Raiders of the Lost Ark (updated for today a little):
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“Did he just describe militant feminists as attractive?”
Yeah, he probably likes the abuse. (Whip me!)
[heartiste: some militant feminists can be attractive, although in a blindfold test i wouldn’t bank on it.]
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This! I lived in a similar situation for about 7 years, together a total of 24. Finally pulled the plug, best thing I ever did.
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Yeah why even stay married and be on the hunt on the low-low all of that time? Haste makes no waste.
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Off topic: Random request for insight here.
With women and changing their name in a marriage, what is the best argument for (1) telling a woman to change her name and (2) denying her request to combining names (ie. mylastname-herlastname) or something like that?
I am not in a serious relationship now, but the question comes up casually and in group conversations from time to time so I am just trying to get different perspectives.
I was curious how people framed this both in the context of a relationship (aka a woman who seriously wants to either keep her name or combine her name with yours) as well as a group conversation (aka the group feminist/fattie who essentially says it is a woman’s right to keep her name, etc.)
Thanks. I asked on other places but wanted to see what people here thought.
[heartiste: “i’m the one making the sacrifice here by getting married. either you take my name alone, or the marriage is off. i can’t be with a woman with one foot in and one foot out of a serious commitment.” if she accepts that the marriage is off, then you are free to dump her. you just found out she’s willing to leave you over a name change. imagine what she’d have done to you in marriage over bigger issues.
the above advice is for a private serious conversation. if you just want to glibly reframe in front of her friends, tell her she’s perpetuating the patriarchy by keeping another man’s name, but of course she has “the right” to do that.]
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It is one of the gravest insults a woman can heap upon her husband in today’s culture. it is making a statement. Taking on her husband’s name is a public symbol of their public union. A statement that marriage changes spouses. Should you also say as a husband you don’t need to wear your wedding ring? It is just a silly public statement, no? Wedding rings make the statement, I’m married, so I’m not open for business. What kind of statement would you be making if you burned the flag of your country? It is just a piece of fabric, right?
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I know a guy who took his WIFE’s name. He had a hyphenated name himself, inherited from his parents, and I asked them what they’d do when they got married. I suggested taking the man’s father’s name alone, since it has to do with a music company. But he said he’d be taking his wife’s name. I even said at the time, “No, don’t do that!” but he didn’t listen.
Btw, the wife was obviously into me, but at the time I was under one-itis and didn’t bite. I now rather regret not doing so, just to teach him a lesson.
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Agree, when I see a woman’s name with the last one hyphenated, I think “ball-buster”.
I once ran into a guy who was getting married and taking his wife’s last name. I hope for their sake they’re into pegging or something.
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Why argue for what you want? Lay down the law and tell her how it’s going to be.
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Exactly.
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OK, thanks. I remember you giving this advice before in another thread but I couldn’t recall the name of it. I see a woman taking two angles:
(1). She tries to turn the tables (i.e. she angles in the “mylastname-herlastname” proposal) to say that we can both change our names.
[heartiste: you reply that marriage isn’t a dry business deal, or some merger&acquisition. it’s a union of souls, and taking your name is a powerful symbolic gesture of her commitment to that union.]
(2). She balks at the fact that I (the man) is making the sacrifice. “Am I not making a sacrifice? etc.” At that point most likely I wouldn’t be with her anyway, but I can see that coming.
[you tell her, no, she is not making the same sacrifice that you are making. simple as that. modern women have lost sight of the sacrifice that men inherently make for marriage. men have to give up chasing tail and living the free bachelor life, while women get the prize they have dreamed of since they were little girls. it’s good to helpfully remind women of this reality: that marriage requires much more sacrifice from men than it does from women. this reality seems to have been inverted about the time feminists wanted their egos inflated to astronomical proportions.]
This is also why I would stay clear of marriage in the first place, but it helps to have the right frame of mind.
I like this. From another thread someone suggested that I make fun of her name if she decided to combine it. AKA Cuntins if the original names was Cullins and Martin.
[if she talks about combining names like some new agey SWPL dork, mock her in return. ask if this means it’s ok you can name your first born twinkletits. tell her you aren’t interested in marrying a clown show.]
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Serious answer: Taking a man’s name shows pride and respect for that man. It shows that she is ready to be his. Feminist won’t like that last bit.
If she won’t take his name it’s not a marriage based on sacrifice and respect. It seems to be more of a status thing. “Looky here ladies! I got him to hyphenate our name!” What a slam.
“Looky here ladies. I kept my own name! I’m keeping my identity!” Translates to who I am is more important to me than our marriage and my husband.
I was a bit sad upon giving up my maiden name but proud as hell to take my husbands. What are these women afraid of?
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Makes no sense to be afraid of changing the last name, since the one you have before marriage is your dad’s. If your dad didn’t steal your identity, your husband won’t. Plus it’s better for the whole family to have the same last name, gives a feeling of unity.
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it’s a union of souls
Your romantic side is showing.
Thanks. 😉
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simply REQUIRE IT. End of discussion.
In fact, make that approach consistent across the board. Who runs the show at your house?
YOU do.
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If the guy is asking the woman for her hand in marriage, he’s asking her to take his surname as well. It’s just that simple. The idea of hyphenating the surname is kind of silly. What happens when the kids get married? Should surnames just keep growing until it’s some unintelligible mess of 3 or 4 surnames mashed together?
Whose surname goes first? When the kids get married, does the new surname get inserted at the front or the back? What happens when a single surname person gets married to someone with a hyphenated surname.
It’s stupid.
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With women and changing their name in a marriage, what is the best argument for (1) telling a woman to change her name and (2) denying her request to combining names (ie. mylastname-herlastname) or something like that?
Do you pee sitting down?
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Just say you don’t approve of that and that you’re a bit disappointed that she even brought it up. If she doesn’t relent immediately, then you know you made a bad choice but were lucky to find out ahead of time. I know that sounds glib, but a woman who goes into marriage with no sense of submission will make you miserable.
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If you believe in tradition, tell her how you feel. Straight up tell her, “I feel strongly about the commitments and traditions of marriage. Your father is giving your hand in marriage to me. I would like you to drop his name and take mine, or you can remain his, and we’ll call this off.” Drop the bomb on her.
Unless you get the bait and switch: A friend of mine got engaged to a career woman – she had no problem taking his name when they discussed it. A week after they were married, she told him that she had changed her mind, she wanted to keep her “own” name. He told her I’d like you to to reconsider, etc., she replied that she had a reputation in her industry and her name was well known, it was better for her career, blah, blah, blah, and refused. After this, he told her that he never wears jewelry, will not be wearing his wedding ring, put it back in the box and has never worn it since. I backed him up on this. What the fuck else could he do?
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Annulment.
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He could have threatened to change his name to his porn name. For the record mine is John King.
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1.Lay down the law on not ruining traditional ways of marriage.
2. Smack the cunt for even bringing it up.
3. threaten to call off the engagement if the femcunt does not submit.
4.???
5.Profit.
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This is one of those topics where we hit a cultural/country barrier. Here in Soviet Scandinavia, a woman who divorces me could keep my name and actually pass it on to whoever she chooses to screw me over next. Considering that my family name… carries some prestige, I’d put any chick who actually wants to keep her own family name to be on the “diamond inside” category.
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My buddy just got married to a battleaxe who kept her name exactly the same after their marriage. He told me that when he first meets people who know her they routinely call him “Mr. Herlastname”, because they assume it must be his last name also.
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“His problem is the reason why men should not even consider marriage until they are well into their 30s, and then only with women at least eight to ten years younger”
__________
Men who want to get married should wait until they are at least 40 years old and they should only marry an 18-20 year old girl, no older. So that by the time he is 60, only then will age transform her into into a fug.
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omgzz that’s so practical!
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Why did nobody re-direct you to MarriedManSexLife? If you start working out and tell your wife it’s important, she should follow suit. Upgrade your sex rank yo!
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In this case, his sex rank is far above hers already. But maybe he had some beta in him, and that killed the attraction. Also, she’s fat. Fat girls don’t get very horny. Nor do high SMV men get horny for fatties.
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Women don’t wake up one morning fat all of a sudden. It takes time to accumulate the extra calories, and the reason why this happens is quite often dissatisfaction/frustration. In some rare cases, it’s a hormonal issue, but these have very clear symptoms aside of weight gain.
In either case though, the sex drive reduction comes before the weight gain. Either the woman is too tired and her activity level drops below her consumption, and this comes with less frequency of sex or even masturbation, or the sex drive drops and the motivation to stay slim drops with it. In some cases though, it’s that they have a high sex drive and are not getting enough sex or enough of the kind of sex they need. So they turn to food instead of shagging the neighbor.
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Nicole, are you suggesting that a woman’s weight gain is everyone/everything else’s fault but her own?
In other words, are you suggesting that a woman’s weight gain is everyone/everything else’s fault but her own?
Or, rather, are you suggesting that a woman’s weight gain is everyone/everything else’s fault but her own?
I admit, I might have misunderstood your comment. Maybe what you were actually trying to suggest is that a woman’s weight gain is everyone/everything else’s fault but her own.
Help me clear this up.
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I’m saying that if you were castrated, you’d gain weight. It might be your fault, but nobody would hold it against you.
Human beings living on the planet Earth and functioning day to day at a Maslow 1-3 level do what they need to do to survive psychologically and physically. Moralizing over weight is a luxury of people who both have the information and means to choose what they eat, how much exercise they get, and how to handle bumps in the road like hormonal shifts, depression, and other things most efficiently and effectively.
Women are much more vulnerable than men in losing sex drive due to various circumstances. When we are in crisis, it’s a dice roll and genetics whether we’re going to react to it by stepping up or shutting down.
If you want to place blame then yes, technically, an adult human being is to blame for their circumstances, but that could be applied to a whole lot of things aside of weight. Take care of that high horse.
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Second the shout-out to the French- the cinq-a-septis a deeply civilized and humane tradition, as described here as well. Flahute’s advice above is also very good.
Very good- not quite as good as “Matron-Vixen Line” (which is unbeatable), but very nice.
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The “Matron-Vixen Line” is good. Who came up with it?
[heartiste: who else? *preen*]
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Solid. You seem less angry at women for being women these days. This is productive.
[heartiste: i never was angry at women, your concern trolling to the contrary notwithstanding. feminists, otoh…]
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Some good advice here, but this guy is already married, a bunch of years in, got kids, etc. Given that …
Go French (or Italian, if you prefer) – get lots of ass on the side, but discreetly. Sounds like he will have motive, means, and opportunity, given his likely career. The only way he will survive his life sentence is to get lots of fresh poon on the side; he apparently can, so he must.
But a bunch of caveats. Be careful, very careful, especially at the outset. He might turn into Silvio Berlusconi (minus the billions of euros), but the Mrs will remain a fat American hag who will slay his ass – only legally, one hopes – if he gets caught.
Don’t screw co-workers, etc. And definitely not students. Sounds really fun, and funny, till you get caught; in this day and age, you could lose your job, then your wife, then your family — and then it’s … down in the van by the river.
Get your tail away from home – no ass is better than road ass – and live it up but stay as sketchy as possible with chicks (don’t worry, they love all that spooky Dark Triad-y stuff). Get a throw-away phone for your whore, keep it all far, far away from your family. Best of all if she doesn’t know your real name.
There’s a risk you will get attached to a slut, but there’s also a risk, presuming you fuck her right, that she will get attached to you and … call your wife so she can cause a crisis which will leave you with your new girl but without your family (what you call “my life is destroyed” to her translates as, “I won!”). It happens, really.
Once you get proficient with the crimson arts, say after 2-3 years of hardcore side-play, you have less to work about; you will have the tradecraft down, the mistress(es) will by then put up with just about anything. Get through the danger zone, become an accomplished philanderer by all means, but be smart.
The stakes are really high … and no pussy is worth losing your house, your kids, etc. Because in the USA, that is the harsh reality.
But do get all the ass you can. And remember what the French say: “Don’t marry your mistress, it creates a vacancy.”
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“Get a throw-away phone for your whore, keep it all far, far away from your family. Best of all if she doesn’t know your real name.”
That, or, you know, you could try to live your life with integrity. Don’t end the marriage for another person; end it if/when its truly over. You are the person who will look at yourself in the mirror every day for the rest of your life. I have met some haunted people. Look after your own soul.
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He should give the exact same integrity and faithfulness and care that his woman gives him: none. A fat pig who doesn’t give out (not that I can get it up for fat) obviously doesn’t care what her man does, she’s just selfish. Dump her and find a new model – like trading in a used car and leasing a new one, just without the cash-cost.
Given the demonstrated lack of integrity in women’s souls, your attempt to use the blame/shame/maim tactic to make us look at the state of our souls = mega-fail.
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It really wasn’t my intention to shame anyone. But its very true that if she isn’t sleeping with him there’s something wrong.
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It really wasn’t my intention to shame anyone
autoshame is a feature built into every female.
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I guess that’s what happens when I shift out of autoflirt. Wonder what the other gears are…
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Don’t be like Tiger, get Trac-Phone.
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It’s also worth noting that fat women have low sex drives. The number one indicator whether a woman has a high sex drive, and will orgasm or not, is whether or not she’s fit.
The more I think about this (too long already) the more I think he ought to just bail on le cow.
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Off topic:
There should be a website called “Hit the Wall Hard”
http://dailycaller.com/2012/04/03/that-70s-shows-lisa-robin-kelly-arrested/
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…and got fucked by it!
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Jesus. I bet the wall is begging for mercy.
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http://www.usmagazine.com/celebrity-news/news/pic-lara-flynn-boyle-steps-out-with-puffy-swollen-face-201224
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Jesus H. Christ!!!!!!!!!!! eeeeeeewwwwwwwww.
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GAWD DAMN BRO!
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lmao your blog is def the best out there for Game and social-sexual theory. Game is so important in the “westernized” world today, esp for Asians as the arranged marriage system is coming to a halt. People (men) realized for generations they never needed any seductive skills to find women, and now they do.
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No respect for cheaters. If monogamy doesn’t work for you don’t promise it.
That said, I feel bad for men who didn’t discover game till after they were locked into a marriage with kids. You guys are in the tightest possible spot because there are so many consequences lined up to drop on you that “secret” trysts are pretty much the only option.
If you aren’t married and you’re cheating, you are a pussy who’s too weak to admit what you want and have a scarcity mentality.
“BIG POST: The Ultimate Post on Why Long-Term Monogamy Doesn’t Work”:
http://www.fastseduction.com/cgi-bin/search.cgi?action=retrieve&grp=9&mn=1240554210553038&refine=
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Outstanding article heartiste. For guys that are married and held hostage to the his children that he loves. Just do it. And adding that the guy show the respect of being very descrete was nice.
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Holt crap. This needs to be reposted. I can’t even believe they printed this. It gets better and better. Orbiter beta, but at least he came around and gamed her.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/weddings/on-love-youre-perfect-for-me-youre-my-counterpoint/2012/03/29/gIQA37LwlS_allComments.html?ctab=all_&#comments
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“A man hits his SMV stride more than a decade — oftentimes two decades! — after a woman hits hers, so it makes sense that men are best served cashing in their chips at the height of their power for women at the height of their power”
This may be true for many guys, but most of the hot 16-23 year old set (the alpha females) that I was familiar with when I was that age tended to date guys who were their age or 1-3 years older, generally speaking; these guys are in their social circle and/or they know them from work/school. After age 23 or so, when women are through with college, I can see how much older guys can have an advantage with the 23+ set because they have money and the women are more marriage-minded.
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More “marriage-minded” meaning they really value marriage … or they can’t attract the guys they used to?
Never confuse substitution for satisfaction … divorce can really impoverish a man.
And a guy having to work really had to get his wife to acknowledge him, is living in a hell where he is dead last compared to the first guy who rogered her.
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“With women and changing their name in a marriage, what is the best argument for (1) telling a woman to change her name and (2) denying her request to combining names (ie. mylastname-herlastname) or something like that?”
A fiance’ tried to pull this on me, and as Beta as I was back then, I pulled up short and hard on this one.
“You don’t want to take my name? Then you don’t want to get married…”
No further discussion. She TRIED to discuss it further, but I reiterated my stance with a take-it-or-leave it finality in my tone.
What is so galling about this little tactic is the woman is always complaining about a lack of commitment from men in relationships. Yet, here you are willing to make the ultimate one (apart from maybe jumping into a landing craft) and the woman balks at this sign of commitment.
Another possible response could be:
“Oh, so we’re going non-traditional with this marriage thing, eh? Great! You keep your name, and I will keep my sexual options open. Win-Win!”
or
“Oh, so we’re going non-traditional with this marriage thing, eh? Great! You keep your name, then print and sign it on the bottom of this iron-clad pre-up.”
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“A fiance’ “? Did you ultimately marry? Did it last? Or should her attempting this have been a sign that she was not good wife material?
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“Oh, so we’re going non-traditional with this marriage thing, eh? Great! You keep your name, then print and sign it on the bottom of this iron-clad pre-up.”
This one wins the prize.
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Man wants to be loved for what he truly is; which is why the archetypal male scenario of the trial of woman’s love is that of the prince from a fairy tale who first approaches his beloved under the guise of a poor servant, in order to insure that the woman will fall in love with him for himself, not for his princely title. This, however, is precisely what a woman doesn’t want-and is this not yet another confirmation of the fact that woman is more subject than man? A man stupidly believes that, beyond his symbolic title, there is deep in himself some substantial content, some hidden treasure which makes him worthy of love, whereas a woman knows that there is nothing beneath the mask-her strategy is precisely to preserve this ‘nothing’ of her freedom, out of reach of man’s possessive love…
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Which is why I don’t implement game, while still maintaining my skepticism of her and her intentions (thanks CH).
This is also why I have a firm line somewhere from $100,000-$250,000+/yr where I will refuse girlfriends, marriage, and baby mommas in favor of hookers, maids, and Indian surrogates. A woman will not be in my house unless I’m handing her a wad of Franklins/Grants to be there.
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Hooker, Maid, or Surrogate. Ultimate replace-ability with significantly insufficient investment into her emotionally.
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Down that road lies irretrievably broken marriages, for a wife fears a betrayal of love far more than a physical infidelity
So true!
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Meat, Lay, Rove
gold, heartsie, GOLD!
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Is it too much to ask that he get a vasectomy?
Just to ensure that none of his mistresses end up carrying child #3?
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Why marriage when i can have all tha free poon.
llllluuuuuuuuullllllzzzzz into the free poon sunset haha.
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Chateau! This is off topic but check out this story from a woman in Britain. She’s not good looking but she’s got lots to say that is in tune with you.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2124246/Samantha-Brick-downsides-looking-pretty-Why-women-hate-beautiful.html
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More proof that women, not men, are the biggest misogynists.
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She’s fine for someone who is over 40. She was probably gorgeous in her 20s.
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Lmao, the comments are fucking hilarious. Look at the best and worst rated ones, while making special note of the person’s gender, a clear and obvious pattern will emerge.
Also, she’s pretty damn hot for a 41 year old. I think the overwhelming majority of marriage minded men would be more than satisfied with a woman who ages that well.
[heartiste: compared to the average 41 year old and the schools of land whales that roam the american countryside, she’s not bad. but she’s no spring chicken either. and she’s definitely not what anyone would call “beautiful”, unless we’re using the british standard of beauty.]
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This is the whole rationale for the Ashley Madison website. To enable spouses to supplement with some variety while maintaining their relationships.
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The man has made a public vow, has he no honour? When his children reach the age of reason how will he look them in the eye? what will he say to his children when they labour under temptation, find life challenging? He has no love for them and courts their destruction if he listens to the counsel provided by Heartiste.
“And then she understood the devilish cunning of the enemies’ plan. By mixing a little truth with it they had made their lie far stronger.” C.S. Lewis
The Screwtape Letters
“We can drag our patients along by continual tempting, because we design them only for the table and the more their wills are interfered with the better. He cannot ‘tempt’ to virtue as we do to vice. He wants them to learn to walk and must therefore take away his hand; and if only the will to walk is really there He is pleased even with their stumbles.
And again, in a later letter:
. . . our aim is the absorption of its will into ours, the increase of our own area of selfhood at its expense. But the obedience which the Enemy demands of man is quite a different thing. One must face the fact that all the talk about His love for men, and His service being perfect freedom, is not (as one would gladly believe) mere propaganda, but an appalling truth. He really does want to fill the universe with a lot of loathsome little replicas of Himself – creatures whose life, on its miniature scale, will be qualitatively like his own, not because He has absorbed them but because their wills freely conform to His. We want cattle who can finally become food; He wants servants who can finally become sons.”
Think of any other kind of betrayal, – treason, fraud, child sexual abuse, there would be no exculpatory “It’s God’s fault, you’re the victim – you have these desires put there by God, blame Him!”
That such brutally ugly thought can be entertained let alone nurtured is empirical proof of the need for Good Friday. Insofar as he is not aware of his wretchedness, (a basic fact understood by all our ancestors) or obfuscates it – he is making himself fit only for Hell – which is to live with his lie forever, where people choose to be, after habitual wilful rejection of the truth.
“I am more important to myself, I will drop a nuclear bomb on my wife and children by cheating on them”
By all means understand female desire, masculine leadership – but the latter involves courage and disciplined thought – not a recapitulation of Eve’s “it’s good – eat it (me)” by following the sluts he works with.
Make little steps toward God and he will come running to help.
Prodigal Son
“But while he was still a long way off, his father saw him, and felt compassion for him, and RAN and embraced him, and kissed him.”
To Jesus’ hearers, for a Jewish father and head of the family to do this would have been particularly unseemly. Yet this is God.
Trust not in Iagos.
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She already broke the marriage compact by refusing to have sex with him for long periods of time. You could even argue that she broke it by ballooning up as a sex avoidance mechanism.
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Alright. But he thereby doesn’t receive a right to do wrong himself.
He entered into a covenant, gave his word in public. That is the honour of marriage – the bond is one-ended (unconditional, lifelong, exclusive fidelity) and cannot be hedged – that is the drama and excitement – it is in the nature of life itself.
“….Estates are sometimes held by foolish forms, the breaking of a stick or the payment of a peppercorn. I was willing to hold the whole huge estate of earth and heaven by any such feudal fantasy. It could not well be wilder than the fact that I was allowed to hold it at all. At this stange I give only one ethical instance to show my meaning. I could never mix in the common murmur of the rising generation against monogamy, because no restriction on sex seemed so odd and unexpected as sex itself. To be allowed, like Endymion, to make love to the moon and then to complain that Jupiter kept his own moons in a harem seemed to me (bred on fairy tales like Endymion’s) a vulgar anticlimax. Keeping to one woman is a small price for so much as seeing one woman. To complain that I could only be married once was like complaining that I could only be born once. It was incommensurate with the terrible excitement of which one was talking. It showed, not an exaggerated sensibility to sex, but a curious insensibility to it. A man is a fool who complains that he cannot enter Eden by five gates at once. Polygamy is a lack of the realization of sex; it is like a man plucking five pears in mere absence of mind.”
G. K. Chesterton, “The Ethics of Elfland”, Orthodoxy
The adulterous man sets an example of betrayal, he lives a lie, he forsakes his own word and honour. Embrace a lie long enough and its malignancy affects one’s whole character – you can’t fake that – it precedes us. And his children will see him for what he really is and their response to life will be shaped by his own. If he seeks hard enough for a community of the lie that will give him the comfort in numbers of a counterfeit moral community he will find it, and he might recruit others into it, but he will find no peace there.
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“the bond is one-ended (unconditional, lifelong, exclusive fidelity) and cannot be hedged – that is the drama and excitement – it is in the nature of life itself. ”
No, I don’t believe it was ever intended to be “one-ended”. Under the marriage compact, he had a reasonable right to regular sex in exchange for forsaking all others. In fact, for a while, there was no such thing as marital rape because of this. Now, I’m not suggesting he should be able to forcibly rape her (though some here would disagree), but if she finds the idea of sex with him to be so bad, then she has no right to expect fidelity, IMO. In fact, I’m not even sure why she would care all that much. You could say “Then just leave”, but the current family law makes that too painful – both financially (assuming she’s not working) and in terms of likely access to his children.
Look, if we returned to all the rules in place in the age where your quotes were given, you might have a point, because she would understand her obligations to him. But society has effectiely removed her obligations while attempting to leave his in place.
No straight man gets married to not have sex. Had she told him how little sex he would get, he would never have agreed to fidelity. Using an analogy to contract law, these should more rightly be viewed as mutually dependent covenants, not independent covenants.
I’m sure priests and pastors would disagree with me, but I’m not religious. In any event, priests and pastors from eras past would have likely told her to get on all fours and get that ass in the air for him (in more polite terms, of course).
The only valid point you make, IMO, is that this could adversely impact his children and his relationship with them. He has to be very cautious to make sure that doesn’t happen.
I will say to him that if his wife comes around and start sexing him up regularly, then he should return to being faithful. I suspect that if that happens, she will also start losing weight. From what I’ve seen, a lot of women tend to use food as a sex substitute when they aren’t getting sex or when they no longer want it from their spouse (which we know usually means they are wishing they could get it elsewhere).
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It would only be a “wrong” if she didn’t clam up and gain mass!
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I’d be curious to know what religion they are.
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Turning beta is the male equivalent of getting fat, not infidelity, which is apparently what made her get fat in the first place Infidelity is inexcusable, especially when there are kids involved. It’s not their fault their dad’s beta and their mother’s fat.
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With all due respect, I think it was more likely pizza rolls that probably caused her weight gain.
If he keeps his mouth shut and doesn’t go overboard there won’t be too many problems.
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He needs to put his assets in trust. He needs to see a lawyer and find out what can be done to minimize damage in divorce. If his assets are in trust and managed by a friend she can’t touch him. He who plans ahead can avoid an ass raping. It simply requires planning and a cool head. Otherwise, he should cheat on the side and be discreet, and wait it out until his kids are 18. Another option is to get a second residence once that time comes and live in an estranged marriage, preferably overseas. I see no reason to apologize for his meeting his needs in the face of a selfish wife who doesn’t give her husband sex. She’s broken the marriage contract and deserves only as much mercy as he is willing to give her. I’m hearing way too many beta solutions to this issue here. Finally, going ghost is always an option. “Got a wife and kids in Baltimore, Jack; I went out for a ride and I never came back….”
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I think higher quality escorts may be the way to go. You get plenty of variety without having to woo them, and they won’t call your wife trying to steal you away. There’s plenty of attractive ones in big cities for $300-$400 a visit.
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Or else just hit Cambodia and pay about $30. Up to you, barang.
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Yeah, $30 plus plane, hotel, dining, and other travel expenses.
Unless you’re going to live as an expat, or traveling on your employer’s dime, that’s not much of a bargain.
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How much time have you spent in Cambo, princess? I’ll bet you even speak Khmer….
Plane ticket’s about a grand, hotels in Phnom Penh and Sihanoukville go as low as $20 w/ aircon, and you can eat for about $5 per day.
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If the hooker costs more than the room, you’re doing it wrong.
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The asymmetry of the sexual difference resides in the fact that in the case of man we are not dealing with the same cut, we do not distinguish in the same way between what he is “in himself” and what he is ‘for the other’ qua masquerade. True, the so-called modern man is also caught in the split between what (it seems to him that) the other (woman or social environment in general) expects from him (to be a strong macho type, etc.), and between what he effectively is in himself (weak, uncertain of himself, etc.). This split, however, is of a fundamentally different nature: the macho-image is not experienced as a delusive masquerade but as the ideal-ego one is striving to become. Behind the macho-image of a man there is no secret, just a weak ordinary person that can never live up to his ideal; whereas the trick of the feminine masquerade is to present itself as a mask that conceals the feminine secret. In other words, in opposition to man, who simply tries to live up to his image, i.e., to give the impression that he really is what he pretends to be, woman deceives by means of deception itself; she offers the mask as mask, as false pretence, in order to give rise to the search for the secret behind the mask.
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A lot of old school alphas from other countries get poon on the side but are discreet about it and their wives are cool with it.
Thats what I want for my own LTRs if I do decide to pursue them.
Although at this moment, I’m spending the next 15 years single to improve my game. I’ll be 33 by then and a monster at seduction.
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Presuming he isn’t rich, a Golddigger who has found a hubby/fiance is a good choice for adultery. She won’t want to trade in her meal ticket.
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I don’t think this guy is ‘All That’ he is claiming to be.
I dated a divorced 30 something post-doc when I was 20.
On every scale–intellectually, courage, honesty, valor—he was just such a loser. I want a Knight from the Round Table. Not a weasel who doesn’t have the balls to leave college. (hahah doctoral program haha)
A real man Has Honor. Does a man with honor ignore his sex drive? No. But a man with Honor says to his wife, “We’re going to the gym together. Every day for 2 hours. Put your leggings on. Done.”
So until he does that, he should put his dick back in his pants and shut the fuck up about his greatness.
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Or he could just become another “weasel” and find a 20 year old. Worked for at least one “30 something post-doc,” despite him being a loser “on every scale.”
At least we’ve established that that’s worked on one ocassion. Better odds than trying to become a married woman’s life coach.
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Folks,
Thanks for the input. I was not expecting to see my sordid little tale in lights. By way of very partial (and hopeful) response, let me add one angle. Since cheating, I feel less of a burning, desperate need to cheat. I spent years writhing with desire when I’d catch the eye of a cute young thing on the subway, or, indeed, a cute young thing in class. The years of sexless marriage had filled me with phenomenal self-doubt (and remember, I was a virgin when married) so I’d put attractive women on a pedestal, and despite being intellectually aware of my own SMV, I had a deep, rather visceral sense that I was undesirable. And of course these things cut right to the core of one’s self-regard.
Having had a couple of very boisterous nights with very attractive young women, I have a good deal more perspective. I still want to philander (and right or wrong, I can justify it to myself) but I don’t feel pathetic and needy anymore, at least not right now. I catch the eye of a lovely co-ed on the subway, and I think something like “yeah, if I put my mind to it, I could make that happen.” But having tasted the fruit, I can pretty calmly decide that no, it’d be too much trouble, too awkward, too risky in this case. To the unsexed, sex looks like absolute wholeness and bliss (hence the Aristophanes reference – Read Plato’s Symposium). But at least for me, while my trysts have been incredibly enjoyable, it was a short, sharp, shallow sort of joy (not at all like being in love). I don’t regret it, but I don’t pine for it as much now.
And vis a vis home life, I want to restate how much my bearing has changed over the past few months. A long time ago I was confident and with my wife (if always a bit guilty and snively about sexual things) but various changes and events intervened to sabotage that confidence. I know it’s early to judge, but I am hopeful about something more healthy emerging at home. And as much as CH plays the total heartless piece of shit, I have to say that reading this blog has helped my marriage a lot. I can tell that my wife’s regard for me is on a steady uptick (she recently joined a gym!) and I enjoy being at home much more, now that I don’t feel like I surrender my balls at the door.
What’s more, since I’ve started to think and experiment with these things, I’ve talked to a few of my female SWPL friends, and I’ve found much, very much, of the CH wisdom confirmed. These women are tired to death of herby husbands who roll over, put a soft hand on their shoulder and whisper, “Hey, can we have sex now? I mean, if that’s ok . . . ” And the deeper alarms are spreading. The whole “end of men” thing (see the Atlantic) is tightly linked to the death of masculinity, and I don’t believe that our culture will be able to ignore the link forever.
As to my future plans, I expect to cautiously emulate the French model (speaking of which, I’m going on a 2 month research trip to Europe next fall. Alone – Mon Dieu!) But if I end up having to live like an American, I’ll live, and I think my son and daughter (who are 3 and 5) will be the better for having me in the house. Uh-oh. This is all getting very touchy feely. I bet CH won’t approve it. Since I’m already in the weeds, though, I might as well say that this is forum is a surprisingly decent place, as far as cesspools of neanderthal misogyny and filthy narcissism go.
Cheers,
A
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Now go continue your education at married man sex life. It’s complementary to what you are learning here.
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She only wants a man who can attract other women.
Too bad for her if that same man decides to go further after she “cuts him off”.
More power to you, brother! Be discreet and keep your lives separate!
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If you find yourself on totally different sides about whether she’ll keep your name or not, you have different ideas about what it will mean for the two of you to be married that you need to work out. These are things to talk about before you decide to get married. When your friends get married, note whether she took his name and tell your girlfriend what you think about that and ask her what she thinks. Talk about your parents’ marriages and what you hope to do the same or differently. This isn’t artificial – it’s part of the normal process of getting to know someone you’re thinking about marrying. If it’s important to you that your wife take your name, date someone whose values are similar to yours, don’t date someone with different values and then after you propose say you’ll take it back if she doesn’t agree.
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Off-topic, but couldn’t resist… Planned Parenthood turns down $500K from Tucker Max.
“Planned Parenthood rejects $500,000 from Tucker Max,” by Caroline May, The Daily Caller via Yahoo! News, 3 Apr 2012
http://news.yahoo.com/planned-parenthood-rejects-500-000-tucker-max-192007571.html
Sheesh, he’s caused them all sorts of business, the least they could do is take his money… hoovering babies for a profit is okay, but they grow morals when it comes to Tucker Max (women , good; men, bad).
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Its does put a smirk on my face that Planned Parenthood is perfectly fine helping many get rid of bastard spawn (a good service indeed!) after these women ride the cock carousel. However, they draw the line at taking money from the exact type of guy these women love to fuck? Good stuff.
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Hey, they kill his offspring, day in, day out. It’s awkward.
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I’m a bouncer at a club lounge that’s fucking the ‘hot bartender’.
She’s 19, I’m 25.
I came across this temple a few weeks back.
I’ve been doing a lot of the back catelog, but now I’ll be viewing the daily updates.
Any advice on gaming her is welcome.
I’ll give more specifics if needed.
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Biggest help is to have other women interested in you too.
For all women say about “I hate cheaters”, they ignore a simple fact:
If they didn’t want cheaters, they’d either have to “pick men less attractive” or “be alone”.
Keep on keeping on!
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errr….if you’re already fucking her, sounds like you already had enough game.
you’ll need to give specifics.
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Understood if I’ve fucked her then all is well.
But, I want this to be consistent. Her friends think I’m hot etc so the cred is there.
I don’t know, there’s a lot of ‘players’ that hang at the club and she’s always a noted target.
I’m not sure if I should up and alter my game or keep doing what I’m doing, which is mostly a Clint Eastwood masculine knock off, I guess..
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Are you wanting to be monogamous with her or do you want to plow all her friends too, get her into threesomes, etc?
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You’re doing well. Just remember that it’s beta to worry about the competition. CH has some AMOG-slaying techniques but if 99%+ of the attempted pickups are by clumsy betas, you should have nothing to worry about.
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The old-school in me says I want this monogamous, though from what I’ve heard from her she wants anything but. Knowing her age and sex, that can change with the wind.
Yeap, it’s beta to worry about the comp, forsure. It’s just, these guys are goood..
She’s a beautiful girl though usually insecure about her looks, so it can be tricky with the c&f.
Basically, this is the first ‘relationship’ where I’ve hit my stride as a post-beta and wouldn’t want to fuck it up.
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Sounds like she has the upper hand, in that you want monogamy from her but she doesn’t want to give it.
It’s too easy to get emotionally sucked in. You NEED to be fucking other girls. For your sanity, for your manhood, for the sake of your future self.
Don’t let her know about it, but absolutely fuck other girls.
Or this girl will play you and that will cause damage.
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“Man’s natural and completely normal urge for pussy variety.” Assuming we ignore the implications of equating natural/normal with justifiable (an equation you have advised against in this blog when you criticize beta providers for following the ‘normal’ social expectation that they should pay for drinks, open the car door for her, etc), let’s just set up a scenario in which the justifiability of pussy variety is given:
A man, the ideal alpha, receives sexual attention from a woman extra-maritally. This is the primary requirement for the alpha to gain his status, in this hypothetical scenario I’m creating: to receive such attention. The alpha, rather than returning the gesture, pawns this attention off to another woman, who pays him in the currency of sexual market value. Which is more important, that the man receive the object of his completely normal and natural urge, or that he receive the kind of status in his wife’s eyes that would motivate her to lose weight and stay with him? The answer to this question will tell us if the alpha is justified to pawn off attention of which, according to a pervasive and convincing logic, he is meant to return the gesture. If he pawns it off purely to receive the object of his urge, he is justified, because the urge for pussy variety he is obeying is justified, as per the above given. But if he only cares about the SMV boost, how can he justify behavior aimed at the improvement of a wife whom, ultimately, he runs the risk of losing because of the same behavior, as this quote points to:
“The very real risk of Meat, Lay, Rove is that our intrepid reader will likely fall in love with one of his darlings. Men tend to do that with women they find sexually irresistible. Down that road lies irretrievably broken marriages, for a wife fears a betrayal of love far more than a physical infidelity.”
Additionally, women who understand the connection in men’s minds between sexual irresistibility and love will be even more likely to view physical infidelity as an inevitable extra-marital gateway drug towards a dissolved marriage. You can see how easy it is for the wife to slip on the banana peel of a visceral whiff of the alpha husband’s extra-marital sexuality and plummet into the thought-pattern of such depressive expectations, which would produce the undesired result of abandonment. All it takes is one step in her pessimistic mind, as it does in his optimistic one: from sex to love.
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/9183034/Journalist-Samantha-Brick-ridiculed-on-Twitter-for-complaining-she-is-too-pretty.html
OT but awesome.
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Crank,
“A fiance’ “? Did you ultimately marry? Did it last? Or should her attempting this have been a sign that she was not good wife material?”
Yes, we got married, and still are, and while overall she IS a decent wife (perhaps DAMN good taking into account the choices out there nowadays), I still ended up swallowing a big red pill a few years ago.
I can go into more details if you want, but basically what happened was after playing it straight, working diligently to get, keep, and advance in a new job, and not being a fuck around or fuck up, and pretty much giving much of my former life up for my marriage, my wife sat down on the bed one day, sighed, and said:
“I think we have it too easy…”
What. The. Fuck.
Easy? I pretty much lost it there, because considering that much of what I had formerly enjoyed doing was put on the back-burner (the far, far, back-burner), that I again was the dutiful husband, having been frustrated as fuck by it all, I did not find the life we had attained to be particularly “easy”. Were we hurting for money? No. Did we not have a house? Two cars? Yes. Did we not take vacations and eat well? Yes. All fine and dandy, and not a hard life as lives go, and all it cost me was a goodly portion of my free will and a decent chunk of my true happiness.
I started out looking to fucking cheat on my wife big time and with great relish, could only find mediocre whore on Craig’s list, and by some weird synergy I stumbled upon the Misandry Bubble, the Chateau, and suddenly like a freakin’ thunderbolt striking me from the blue, I FINALLY saw the goddamn light!
Been trying to adjust to the new paradigm ever since…
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Wife: * SIGH* “I think we have it too easy…”
Translation: “You don’t give me enough bad boy drama. Please be more alpha, impetuous, and please have less regard for me because you aren’t tingling my emotions or vagina like that guy that I’m thinking of cheating with.”
Let me guess, she’s a white American wife?
Your life is a prime example of why marriage sucks.
If a guy who works his butt off to be a good husband with a good job and good money isn’t even appreciated by his wife, what’s the point of marriage other than self-castration & divorce rape?
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Have to question a “prestigious doctoral program” making you high-status. As long as I was in one, never made a ‘gina tingle anywhere. I mean, it’s kind of like being one-eyed among the blind, so I guess it could make you high-status in comparison to other doctoral students, but on a general level, simply earnings-wise…
Personally, have found some success in it when you reach the stage that you’re done (or very close to it) and working in real life in a high-status job (lobbyist). A PhD in such an environment seems to raise rather significant amounts of interest (to the point where I have to avoid some of my younger lawyercunt co-workers to not get tied up in a nasty sexual harrassment affair). 😛
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I found that strange too. Being a doctoral student, regardless of the prestige of the program, is so soul-crushing I wonder how anyone could have any ounce of confidence while immersed in one.
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Prestigious doctoral program? Status? Barely legalized hazing… ’tis more like this.
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Even the dating sites admit it:
http://www.oheythere.com/
Dating is for betas…
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lol That site does look intriguing. I’ve never really understood the concept of dating, myself.
(Great name, btw.)
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Once you’re in marriage, you oughta be slow to leave it. You took an oath, there’s the religious aspect if you believe in that (I do, and do not mean to trivialized the importance of it, the Timeless Things matter in life), plus the financial downsides of divorce are dreadful. Plus you can’t just walk out on young kids, it’s the biggest dick move a man can pull, and he shouldn’t go unless the situation is really dire – you catch her with the local National Guard unit or your Great Dane. Part of masculinity means you buy the ticket, you take the ride and deal with it, it’s your job to lead your family out of the mess you slid into together.
That said in this particular situation, an occasional discrete dalliance (remember, discretion is the better part of valour) and pushing the wife hard to make herself attractive is probably the safest course back to a conscience-easing monogamy and maybe even a healthy marriage. A really fit 4 (clothed) frequently looks like a 7 (naked), and can appear to be a 9 in your eyes if the relationship is really good. It’s up to you to lead and to help shape her into a woman in full – if she grew up religious she was probably fed all sorts of crap cooked up by feminized pastors and hamster-driven church ladies, see e.g. Dalrock’s discussions of “Churchianity.” If she doesn’t follow, then you need to stick until the kids are of an age where divorce won’t traumatize them (this may be a ways into their mid-/late teens), then get out.
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A woman turning up in white when she isn’t a virgin, forfeits her right to an honest marriage.
Or is that a truth that is only between God and her?
i.e. husband is not necessary to be informed his wife isn’t pure or chaste?
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note that wearing white for a wedding is just customary. it’s not an advertisement of one’s sexual status. otherwise, it might be thought way TMI for the guests. =)
[heartiste: yes, but didn’t the custom start as a way to advertise the bride’s virginity? american women nowadays may as well wear black cocktail dresses on the way to the altar. it’d be more honest, and honesty is a strong foundation of any good marriage, right?]
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i’m sure you’re right it started that way and morphed into the tradition we have today.
storytime: i myself wore a black and red office dress to my own ‘wedding’ in the nyc municipal building many years ago, one of about 30 couples. it’s worth noting that my 2 sisters and one sil had the whole white-wedding-dress church shebang and their marriages eventually imploded, while mine is still intact. sartorial choices at the wedding don’t predict the success of the marriage, but we already knew that.
‘black cocktail dresses’
=)
that and maybe the backless white wedding dress showing off the ‘tramp stamp’.
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Its all because of Queen Victoria- she was quite the tradition starter. I chose off-white since I’d already slept with the groom, but I don’t think other people are such sticklers 🙂
[heartiste: off-white… the color of semen. *trollface*]
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My mom talked me out of a white wedding dress, saying it didn’t flatter my coloring. Now I’m wondering if it was because I wasn’t a virgin.
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Oh, Heartiste 🙂 You’re unstoppable.
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Speaking of white dress and bride’s virginity
I don’t know if it’s somewhere in the chateau archives, but it’s definitely worth viewing.
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Oh no!
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‘Hos are most likely to cheat with your best friend.
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I’d think its less traumatizing to divorce when children are younger.
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I don’t agree. Children are most vulnerable, dependent and impressionable when young, and gradually become less so as they mature.
[heartiste: don’t hold me to this, but i recall reading a study that purported to show divorce was hardest on kids between ages 7 and 14.]
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We’d have to give specific ages to really discuss it, but very young and they won’t even remember it. Now, this also has its drawbacks because its sad that they don’t have memories of being a family that lived together. There’s probably a cut off point around 4-5 when a child starts to become really aware. Then I’d agree that it would be very unsettling until that teen age was reached. One could argue it could be worse at an older age as it has been their normal for that many more years.
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Divorce at any age harms the kids.
The book to see on this, at least for women, is “Women and their Fathers,” by Victoria Secunda. http://www.amazon.com/Women-Their-Fathers-Sexual-Romantic/dp/0385310234
I read this when we were having our first daughter.
She lists several “types” of fathers and the kinds of daughters their kids turn out to be.
The worst functioning adult daughters: those with “no father/divorced.”
A close runner up for worst functioning daughters were the “Dominated Father” (by the mother) and the “Doting Father” for whom the daughter could do no wrong.
The BEST functioning adult daughters: daughters of the “Authoritarian Father.” Basically what we’d call here an Alpha.
The father was Loving and warm to the daughter. Yet also held standards and discipline to live up to. He lets the daughter know when she is not living up to his expectations
“A great Dad but you don’t want to cross him” was the type
These were best functioning daughters – did best in school, least problems as young adults. Also, she claimed were most comfortable with their femininity, least sexual hangups
Sidenote: Kevin MacDonald, the evolutionary psychologist, basically says this is also the ideal kind of family structure: loving but with discipline, rules and firm consequences.
This was the Puritan family structure.
No surprise that the media elite has been on a campaign against “strict parenting” since 1960’s. Because caring but strict parentng works. And if you want to screw up people as adults, you indoctrinate their parents that they have to be “permissive” and nothing kids do is wrong.
And you push “no fault divorce”
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Loving and warm but with standards and discipline. I agree that is the best scenario. Seems people either provide one side or the other. And, oftentimes, those roles are split between parents, which is probably why the two parent home is ideal.
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It would have to VERY young – I have memories of my parents’ arguments from age 3 forward, and it still bothers me they could behave that way in front of their children. And their split up when I was 14 was devastating. Even though I knew it was for the best and that they were never going to get along, the dissolution of my family ‘unit’ and the splitting up of ‘home base’ was awful and still has major repercussions in my life today, even though I am married myself now.
I also think it’s possible that children lose some of their father’s affection when a divorce from their mother happens. After the divorce, he traveled a lot for his work, so I think he just felt ‘removed’ from our lives. If he had a girlfriend that he was serious about, you better believe that my brother and I took second place when any issues arose. That being said, my dad and I used to be close until very recently. Even today, and I’d still give anything to feel like I was a priority in his life. Now that he has remarried, I’ve all but disappeared.
But take heart, gentlemen; contrary to what the studies you site finds, this girl never slutted out even though her dad wasn’t around as much. It happens – if a girl is raised with goals and priorities, she can keep her head on straight.
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So, what went right for you?
As in … how much opprobium from the Sisterhood did you get?
‘Cause riding the cock carousel is in vogue for a lot of them.
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My daughter was 1.5 and she doesn’t remember any of it. I’ll show her pictures and she’ll ask, why is Papa’s furniture in our house. I practically had to force my ex to take a role in her life and now she is the center of his world. My own father, who has been married to my mother for over 35 years, has very rarely shown any interest in my existence. Regardless of the living situation, I believe its the quality of the relationship that’s important.
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@P Ray – sorry, didn’t see a direct reply option for your question.
What went right is probably a combo of a few different things:
1) I’ve never done the competition-with-other-girls thing. I have friends, but I’ve always been the type to have very one-on-one friendships rather than be in a group of girls. The few times I was, it got ugly – there’s a pecking order, usually based on gossip and jealousy etc., and I simply am not the competitive type. Therefore, no competition over boys. Also, this has enabled me to to drop really crappy friends without much secondary damage and consequences caused by group dynamics. Being like this wasn’t an actual decision on my part; it’s just the way I am. The fact that I was essentially raised at home before school with very little daycare helped as I never felt dependent on others to get through things.
2) My parents sent me to good schools, and I have a very high aptitude for reading in particular. As a result, I am a big reader on just about anything. Mix this in with the fact I have a smaller amount of (high quality) friends, and you’ve got a girl who doesn’t mind being her own best company. Hence, I never felt the peer pressure in high school via group dynamics to drink, try drugs, become sexually active, etc. The fact that I went to a very small private high school also helped, I think – it was a very ‘come as you are’ HS, and there wasn’t quite the cut-throat clique dynamics that you usually hear of in high schools. Nobody really went out of their way to go after and really make fun of others. A few cases, but those people were annoying as hell.
3) I also had an excellent, long-term, high school boyfriend who truly loved me and never pressured or forced me into doing anything I wasn’t comfortable with. In retrospect, he wasn’t ‘alpha’; but I count myself as lucky. An ill-fated relationship at that time with a ‘pump and dumper’ would have destroyed me.
4) I also worked from the time I was 16. My dad (who although he put women first, he was always an excellent provider) bought me a used car as he wasn’t in town and my mom worked wacky hours, so I needed a way of getting to and from my school activities This kept me out of trouble and gave me gas money. My mom hated that I worked, but my dad was on board with it.
As a result of these things, I never felt nor cared the ‘opprobium’ of the ‘Sisterhood’. I never realized how beneficial these things were to me until I looked back on them as an adult, but I realized I could’ve really raised hell if I had been a different sort of teen and did not have these circumstances. I was very fortunate. I now keep my friendships one-on-one by design for the most part – it gives me a good support system and cuts out any politics.
@GeishaKate That is VERY young, so if a divorce happened, I think that’s a good age to get it ‘over and done’ with. I agree with you – it’s the quality of the relationship that’s important. I’m glad the ex is taking an active role in her life. I didn’t meant to make sound like my dad wasn’t there or anything. He was, and when he was, it was wonderful! But if push came to shove, he’d buckle under his gf’s preferences.
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@ Not So Average Girl: We sound a lot alike in 1). It was really refreshing to read your comments! I hope you’ll have more to say.
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This is a good comment. I know it isn’t going to be easy, but I do think a man needs to take responsibility for his family. Even his wife’s weight problem and lack of sex drive is in his hands to some degree.
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True. She doesn’t feel like a winner if he can’t find some other woman who wants him. 🙂
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Yeah, how hard would it be for him to insist on taking her for a “romantic” hike. Force her to keep up with him for 8 hours until she’s breathless (if she’s as fat and out of shape as he claims). Possibly f**k at the end of it all, if its a secluded location. (then he gets laid w/o it being a “struggle” or whatever it is he claims). But why would they exercise together when he’s too busy guzzling drinks at happy hour with “enlightened and intelligent” feminists? If this guy is of normal weight, I doubt it’s because of commitment to physical activitiy while his wife’s body (after having 2 kids) will literally be trying to grab on to every bit of fat it can)( not that that is an excuse). Fact is, this guy is shedding his religion late, and he wants to shed everything that goes along with it (an ugly wife as he claims). He feels like he needs an excuse for his cheating, and it’s easier to blame his wife’s appearance rather than saying, “I feel stupid for believing in god and following my previous religion that mentally coerced me into marrying an ugly chick.” If he said that, it would sound as if he’s making excuses, and then he’d sound like a girl.
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Here’s a novel idea: man up and file for divorce before she finds out about your extracurricular activities. You’re an idiot for breeding, BUT you are not being fair to her or your kids. Your wife is NOT going to change–in fact, it will only get worse as she approaches menopause. Take it from a 40 something year old woman–most American women do not care about their appearance after a certain age. This is not France, Italy, Spain, or hell, even China.
And if you think your lovely spawn will never find out about your dalliances, you are sadly mistaken. Kids ALWAYS find out. I am telling you, you are playing with fire. Never, ever underestimate a woman scorned.
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One is only an idiot for breeding in a feminist country where the government can mandate stealth alimony. Breeding is a good idea (for the man) in other cultures where it would be worth it to invest USD200 per month in having a child of your own.
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“Women, low income people, the uneducated, braggarts, egomaniacs and trolls use Facebook the most. Not surprised.”
A guy at SXSW conference recently declared: if you’re excessively involved with social media it means you’re probably LOW STATUS.
Same thing for people in public who are constantly jabbering on their cell phones. You will notice these people are largely social losers. They need to cling to some kind of “social network” like a life raft. Same thing for whoever the losers are on the other end of the phone.
Who has the time in their day to constantly be talking about bullshit in public on a cell phone? People with no lives.
Think: High status people don’t need to cling onto a social network, because they are very well self-sufficient as it is, thank you.
The high status person usually has higher income and/or resources- and the more high status, income you have, the more DISTANCE you want
You want to get the hell away from people. You don’t want 10,000 “fake friends” up your ass.
You want to spend your leisure time, at most, with a few choice friends indulging in a few choice pleasures away from the mass horde animals.
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Interesting. I regard Facebook as a personal sanctuary and hardly allow anybody on it. However, as online dating’s sun has set, its probably still mid-morning on Facebook.
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Cosigned.
Although one has to be careful. Women are social butterflies at heart. Being a lone wolf, even when you’re high status, is a risky lifestyle when you’re in some serious relationship. But it doesn’t matter for eternal bachelors.
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“Women, low income people, the uneducated, braggarts, egomaniacs and trolls use Facebook the most. Not surprised.”
True. In my News Feed, which is the only thing I really check anymore, most activity is by women. The men I know generally post very little unless it’s important, and usually just “like” or say brief remarks to things the women post. Gays are similar to women in this regard.
There are a couple of guys I know who post tons of things every single week — pictures, videos, and other shit off the internet. Even worse IMO are a dozen status updates a week, because they’re talking about themselves. One former “friend” would do this, and the only time he ever got a date was when the girl accepted by accident and felt obligated to go through with it. Wow… the epitome of “alpha on the outside, omega on the inside”.
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To play the devil’s advocate here, the pua internet scene used to waste as much of a guy’s time as the social networks would when it was filled with the kind of violent-minded beta who wanted bad things to happen to alphas because they’re supposedly destroying “civilization”. Half the commenters here used to be the kind of white nationalist that didn’t personally want to get laid (only wanted to save civilization) and seemed to be coming here via a link from a forum that pedestalized right-wing women.
That’s changed (here but not at Inmalafide and Spearhead) and, without all the time-wasting arguing about the ethics of seeking younger, hotter, tighter, it’s more efficient to read this blog, pick up some new ideas and get on with one’s life.
A girl’s social network profile and wall is important to read. You want to see who her friends are so you don’t try to pick one of them up who isn’t as good as she is and the friend lists of women remind a guy not to make enemies of other women or get involved with 6’s and 7’s who you would later dump and then might later be found in the friend list of a 9 or 10 and give you a bad report.
With that in mind, you don’t want to comment on the wall of a new prospect who has so many friends that any one of them might remember you as trying to have met her in the street or one might take it upon herself to become a cockblocker.
Be careful that idiotic programmers at places like facebook feel it’s OK to show all a man’s friends which photos of others that he has liked.
You could easily show a new prospect that you just clicked like on the photos of several other women posing in their bikinis.
So it’s not only beta to like a photo of a woman online, your action could get broadcast to all the other girls who are connected with you.
Still, being aware of what a woman is doing online is beneficial.
Don’t ever stay connected with a woman who won’t meet you in person. Defriend her.
I had a great date last week with a 19 year old who told me that the majority of her male friends online want to meet her, often for the first time in person, but she refuses.
I told her that I wouldn’t have stayed friends online if she refused to meet even once and she admires that attitude.
That’s a no-brainer. I can’t believe the guys she refuses to meet are still connected to her and liking her photos.
[heartiste: the scarcity mentality, whether justified or not, is strong in the great majority of men. it’s practically wired into their hindbrains. and even if a man has good reason to hold a scarcity mentality (for instance, he lives in a region with a bad sex ratio) it’s a bad idea to telegraph that mentality in his actions. he should continue behaving like a man who swims in a sea of women.]
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Someone here said it is OK to marry as long as she makes almost as much money as you do.
My wife made 3 times as much money as I did when we married. She quit her job shortly after giving birth. Even if I would have been aware of the scam I was falling into, I doubt I would have had the mettle to divorce her for quitting her job to be with her baby. Many many lonely sexless years later, she still doesn’t have a real job, and I will be forced to pay for her continued retirement for the rest of my life or hers. Probably a boyfriend’s too.
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But the reason I am posting here: my wife tried to use the non-sequitur-text trick on me. Like most women, game is part of her DNA. But it is not just DNA; ever watch a soap opera? It is one love-n-sex scam after another. It’s female training.
She texted me, pretending she was texting another man. I know you are thinking that maybe it really IS another man, but I am not that fortunate. OH MY GOD do I wish there was another man so she would sign the divorce papers or at least leave me alone once in a while. She is just trying to get me jealous because I started refusing to go out with a woman I am not having sex with.
I played along, pretending I was the imaginary man. When I got tired of it, I pretended to be the imaginary man’s wife.
I just have this vague feeling that I missed an opportunity to take advantage of the situation, or at least have more fun with it.
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On a related note, often repeated ideas sometimes get mindlessly inserted into the manophere cannon. One idea is that for relationship game, your woman needs to think that you can cheat, but that does not mean that you need to actually cheat in order to effectively put the fear into her.
But guys who put it that way often are simply trying to justify their moral position. They refuse to cheat, because cheating is wrong.
You see the catch 22? Guys who refuse to cheat because cheating is wrong can’t cheat. They are safe and deep down their women know it. No matter who is flirting with them. They can’t really raise the fear.
If you can’t actually cheat, then you can’t actually raise the fear.
The only way to genuinely raise competition anxiety is to genuinely be able to fully go through with it, all the way through to the penis inserted into vagina stage.
Therefore, if the man is not cheating, he could not cheat. Therefore, a man should actually cheat.
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