Reader Sidewinder writes the following:
Last night I banged the highest quality girl to date. 21, petite, model, easily orgasmic…somewhere in that 8-9.5 range where any difference in rating is merely a matter of opinion. I’m a 35 year old attorney, recently divorced, 2 kids, balding, medium height, slender build…pretty fucking average.
I won’t waste your time with the entire seduction (which took 2 months, yet the 7 hour rule still held). I am fairly confident that last night would not have happened without the knowledge I have gained from reading your blog. This girl threw shit tests at me on a near daily basis for over a month. And when I passed all the tests and had near flawless rapport with her on 2 dates, she wouldn’t even kiss me at the end of the date (even though there was a lot of touching, hand-holding, etc.). She flaked on one date, and rejected me on another date request. So what changed? What were the keys to success?
1. Persistent frame maintenance. I never whined, complained, asked, pleaded… I always acted congruent with the reality that I am a high-value male worthy of her sexual interest. While it was never said, she knew that “let’s just be friends” would not be an acceptable way of dealing with me. And I always moved forward, never afraid to tease, touch, flirt. No attempt to backtrack to try to avoid a rejection or give myself an out.
2. Negs. Even though she is very attractive, she has a warm approachable personality, so I calibrated to a teasing form of negging. No cutting negs, except as described below at 5.
3. Freeze out. After a month of flirting, dates, but no sex, I stopped giving her attention. This drove her crazy and resulted in increased texts and emails from her.
4. Gamed other girls. While freezing her out, I continued talking to other girls, banging one of them. She didn’t know about this, but this bird in the hand mentality gave me strong inner game in dealing with the hotter girl.
5. Destroyed/preempted her ultimate shit test – while I was ignoring her, she sent the following beta bait: “A girl hit me last night. I don’t know what to do”. I completely ignored this. This pissed her off and she demanded to talk a couple days later. I told her at the last minute she could come out and meet me at a restaurant I was already at after work (a greasy hole in the wall that she had previously told me she hated). She shows up, pissed to even be there and started fishing for emotional support which I ignored. Then she tried to guilt trip me about not being a caring person and listed all the ways I’m “not as great as you think you are.” At that point, having banged the other girl the night before, I didn’t give a shit so I told her the truth: I didn’t respond to her text because her “girl fight” was embarrassing for her, not something she should broadcast or that I would ever be involved with. I told her she needed to grow the fuck up. She looked at the wine in her hand and thought about throwing it on me, but instead got up, yelled at me and stomped out of the place. But she really didn’t leave…she waited outside for me to come out…we ended up having a good conversation. She wanted to come over but I told her I was tired.
6. The days following this, she turned a complete 180. Pleasant, accommodating, openly interested in hanging out. Last night she came over, with her overnight stuff (I didn’t invite her to spend the night), watched a movie, no drama whatsoever, sex after a fair degree of last minute resistance and she stayed over. But it was good resistance, the “I don’t want to fuck this up with you” kind of resistance.
While we were laying in bed after sex, she was talking about why she wanted to be with me and she said “You are really honest with me, even when I don’t want to hear it. No guy is ever honest with me. They just tell me what they think I want to hear.” I know you don’t put a lot of stock into what women have to say about game, or what they think they want, but this girl is very intelligent and self-aware.
Unbelievable how difficult this was, though. It was like trying to land a marlin in a kayak, or break a wild horse. And odds are good I’ll slip up or get out-gunned eventually by a higher quality guy. But I’m fairly confident I would never have even got my first drink with her prior to finding this blog, much less navigating the minefield she laid out.
Some men found Fortune 500 companies. Some men split the atom. I help guys get laid with hot babes. Ask yourself, who’s really bringing more happiness into the world? :cool:
Sidewinder, that story just made this average lawyer’s day. Good show. Splitting pussy must be more fun than splitting the atom
Gotta love those girls that have multiple orgasms easily. Awesome story, very inspirational. This makes leaving for Coachella tomorrow where there will be a bounty of hot college age girls all the more exciting.
great post as usual
Great story. Keep on, keeping on….
Thanks for sharing. I took the Red Pill a while back and it has changed my life. I am late 40’s, decent shape but not like I was in my 20’s, and thanks to this blog and others, I now have all the 20-somethings I can handle.
If find that maintaing the frame in spite of everything is a challenge, but when you hold the frame, you get amazing results.
Recovering Alpha,
I am in a similar age rage to you. Could you briefly describe your Game history. By that I mean how many years you have been doing this, how many approaches (approximately) have you made, what type of Game you run (ie day Game vs Club Game or Coffee shop Game etc.), did you take any PUA bootcamps, and what resources you study (besides this blog).
I am very encourgaged by this blog post and by your comments as I just discovered this, or more accurately finally looked into this deeply, and am planning to take the plunge and impliment this stuff.
I hope this request doesn’t come off as pushy. But your comment really was inspiring for me.
@JR,
I am happy to answer as best I can.
1. Game History — A friend of mine introduced me to a number of the game bloggers and it was if a light bulb finally turned on. I have alwasy been incredibly Alpha in my professional life… built and slod four companies, but was completely and utterly brainwashed when it came to male/female relations.
2. Number of approaches. I am sort of at the point where I approach whenever I see someone I am interested in. I really don’t care when, where or what I am doing. Recently on a flight to Europe, I apporached a 31yo smokin’ hot woman. She ended up spending the week in my hotel. Last night, in a bar, approached and number closed 2 young ladies.
3. Bootcamps? None.
4. Blog? This one and many others. Would really recommend Athol Kay’s Married Man Sex Life. Married or not, there is much to learn.
Most important thing for me was to learn to completely ignore anything they say, and just focus on what they do.
Hope this helps.
I’m your age, also recently took the red pill, and a 20 year old just criticized me for having a slight paunch as we stood in our bathing suits at a pool with no other people around. Seconds later we were kissing and she was criticizing me for having gotten out of practice kissing…before spending the next ten minutes giving me a refresher course.
Criticism from a woman is practically a good thing if you take it the right way.
@Recovering Alpha…I’m late 40’s tall, good shape, look and act younger.
Since discovering game and practicing it 2 years ago it’s change my life.
I recently had a 26 year old chasing after me whom I banged.
Also an older but still hot Asia flight attendant…and other 20-ish women interested or flirting with me.
The idea here is to maintain the teasing…read all you can on passing shit tests….keep texts short—the flight attendant who while being older is by far the most elegant, t specifically said “Your texts are always 1 or 2 words”.
Also, I’ve earned a sort of aura where people in my social circle “Think” im banging more chicks than I really am…
“Also, I’ve earned a sort of aura where people in my social circle “Think” im banging more chicks than I really am…”
I have this same aura. It has its uses when girls in my social circle are on the rebound.
Funniest thing about this story is that she liked you because you were being honest with her. You weren’t honest with her at all; you were gaming her the whole time. I’ve been honest with girls and there is no better way to completely turn them off. “Honest” to a woman means “tells me what I want to hear” or maybe “stands up to me.” What men call “honest” women hear as icky and mean.
Ok, let’s get one thing straight folks. Gaming is not dishonest, and it is not manipulative. Game is simply being more attractive. Show me where he was dishonest with her. Where?
I don’t know, I was being pretty straight up with her. I think part of inner game is learning who you truly are and what you honestly truly want. Betas think they are being “honest” when they are actually being needy or seeking approval. Their words may be honest, but the context, tone and delivery (the frame) is meant to try to influence some outcome with a chick.
What this girl described as “honest” was actually interaction that was completely devoid of an ulterior motive or said with an outcome in mind. It wasn’t “nice” but it wasn’t irrationally hostile either. It was an honest expression of my limits. I wasn’t goign to chase any childish bitch around. When she saw that I meant it, she wanted my approval.
Ultimate game is extremely honest. You’ll figure that out down the road.
“Honest” means “real”. And reality is a matter of perception. When you say things that fit someone’s perception, the more real and honest you appear.
Icky and mean isn’t necessarily what men call honest. It could just be icky and mean.
Secondly, we all need social niceties. It might be better for a girl to say, “I have a boyfriend” than, “No way in hell.” It might be better for a man to say, “Let’s hang out” than, “Come over and suck my dick”.
I think patient is a more accurate description. Managing expecations isn’t necessarly dishonest.
Game is extraordinary, until it’s an ordinary part of your life.
2 months isn’t too bad.
you know what they say….time flies when you’re banging other poon.
2 months is excruciateingly slow. Hats off to op, I wouldn’t have stuck it out.
GOAALLLLLL!
Great breakdown. Game paying dividends for this guy.
Especially poignant for those who remember him a year ago with Church Girl while he was still married.
thrilla.. LOVE THIS STORY ..way to go!!
Bravo. Solid, solid game, solid report. Props for nailing, pun intended, this one.
Sidewinder, how did you meet/open her?
Good breakdown.
Turning point for me was when I banged the hottest girl I’d ever banged (she’s still one of the hottest) and we were shooting the shit and she admitted to me that she’s a bitch to people because no one ever calls her out on it. They treat her special and let her get away with anything, even treating her best friends like shit, because she’s hot.
She actually ended up crying and telling me that she wished someone would call her out on it because then she could feel “normal” and know people were being honest with her. Part of what was attractive about me to her (despite repeated protests that I’m not her type at all and she didn’t want any of her friends to know she was fucking me) was that I teased her when she did stupid shit or scolded her when she acted bratty etc.
It was a fascinating night and cleared up for me why really hot girls respond the best to negs, teasing, scolding, etc. even if it pisses them off or makes them confront their own behavior. It’s a taste of someone in their fake-ass world of “no baby you’re perfect” being honest with them.
Funny related story by Tyler from RSD where he calls some hooker chicks out (story starts at the 14:00 mark):
This is such an inspiring post! I am late fifties, English, lately into game, out of a marriage to an entitled princess. Moving from Beta as quickly as possible. Recently gamed beautiful Asian woman twenty-five years younger than me, but she flaked on the date. Still learning, very encouraged by this post (and learnt a lot). Would someone be kind enough to remind me what the 7-hour rule is?
The seven hour rule is that it takes about seven hours of spending time with a woman before she’ll be ready to get it on. This may be seven hours at the first meeting, e.g. a one-night stand, or it may be seven hours over months, as noted in the report above.
Old school PUA concept that it takes about 7 hours in person from meet to sex with a new girl. Whether that’s an hour when you met, a 4 hour shopping trip a month later then a 2 hour date a few weeks later, or whether that’s a 7 hour adventure night etc. the idea was that it took around 7 hours for a girl to get comfortable and for a guy to build enough attraction.
At the time this was mind-blowing because it flew in the face of traditional “3+ dinner dates before you get a kiss” dating. 7 hours seemed incredibly short.
Now we’ve got it streamlined down to under 7 hours but a lot of those are fool’s mate or flash game or just the planets aligning right combined with really efficient game. So the 7 hour rule is still a decent guideline.
If you’ve spent 7+ hours in person with a girl and still haven’t gotten anywhere, you’re doing something wrong.
uhhh just to soften it a bit, I don’t mean you suck ass if it’s been more than 7 hours. Just that there’s something (or multiple things) in your game that can use some polishing.
In your case just being an older guy starting out, I’d guess that your vibe was more friendly/gentlemanly than “if we’re alone together we both know I’m going to pin you up against the wall and rail you” lol not a big deal if that’s the case, it just means in future interactions try to remember to push the sexual side of things more…like showing that you have intentions with her that go beyond making small talk over a tradition dinner date.
And don’t stress it if you can’t get her back on the hook. How many 50+ men would be mind blown to get a chance to flirt with a girl like that! You’ve got a second chance to shape your lovelife now that you’re rid of the princess so hang in there even if the flakes are frustrating at times. You’ll learn how to deal with them. :)
YaReally, many thanks. I really appreciate that you were kind enough to frame your advice in the context of my age and current situation. I am continuing to try my newly learnt game. You are right, interactions witth beautiful young women are worth the entry price alone, but it is clear that improving my game will get me more. Thanks again.
Welcome aboard my friend
The 7 Hour Rule: One of the pillars of Game is that it takes a minimum of 7 hours for a girl to feel comfortable enough with you to sleep with you.
This is called the Comfort stage. “Attraction – Comfort – Seduction.” .
In other words, you should plan on putting in “7 hours” of accumulated time with a new prospect if you want to bang her. Any less and she will not feel comfortable enough with you personally, and your attempted seduction will fizzle out.
The “7 hour rule” is based off ancedotal evidence by the PUA Mystery
Savoy, another PUA, in his book Magic Bullets , argues you can go lower or higher. Savoy claims minimum of 4 – to max of 10 hours.
He says if you are “gaming:” a chick for more than 10 accumulated hours, and she is not letting you physically escalate towards sex with her, move on, because it’s probably a lost cause
There are exceptions to 7 hour rule, like one night stands. But often one night stands are not what you want to go for, for a couple of reasons.
First, girls who will sleep with you after a couple of hours are usually not very desirable to begin with. ,
Or the girl may be hot, but you will find she will not be game for further sex. Because when you seduce a girl too soon, before building up the comfort she needs to feel , she will has what Mystery called “Buyer’s Remorse” – intimacy, without comfort.
7-hour rule is something Mystery made up. You should only spend a maximum amount of 7 total hours with a girl before you lead her to the bedroom. If you spend more than 7 hours, you’ve spent too much time gaming her and you’ll end up losing the notch.
So you could meet up with a particular girl 7 times for an hour each. But after that 7th hour, there should be enough attraction built for you to make the move by taking her back to your place for the bang.
Or you could date the girl 3 times, spending 2 hours on the first, 2 on the second, and 3 on the third, to seal the deal.
I’ve hung out with a couple girls before, and the 7 hour rule seems pretty legit to me. Because at that point, the girls seem most interested in having sex. Any more time spent wondering if I should screw the girl or not = lost cause. Attraction drops off like a rollercaoster ride, because I didn’t ‘man up’ and use my dick. Or the girl believes “he doesn’t want me enough”.
@ John…the fact a younger Asian girl flaked is not a reflection of you…it means a few things: 1) more comfort, maybe she suddenly needs to reassure herself it’s ok to be with an “older guy”…I gamed a 26 year old Asian girl who hovers around me all the time…
2) Let her go….it’s going to happen.
Congratulations, Sidewinder. It was great to read about, and it’s definitely going into my CH keepers folder.
Twenty one years old… damn, that must’ve been the sweetest candy.
Geez, I can’t stop re-reading it!
One of my MAJOR stumbling blocks is shit tests. I am fighting YEARS of systemic, metastasized beta-ness, so I rarely recognize subtle shit tests for what they are.
I’ve been pouring my heart and soul into my CH studies– have spent months reading and re-reading the archives. If anyone could recommend a good resource for learning more about shit tests, I’d be very grateful.
“If anyone could recommend a good resource for learning more about shit tests, I’d be very grateful.”
The ultimate resource is: Go out more. I’m not being a dick but you’ve already read everything, you can read till your eyes fall out and you still won’t be able to handle shit-tests in person. The way to internalize it is to go out and approach 10+ women a night a bare minimum of 2 nights a week but preferably more. You’ll fuck up a ton until you learn what works and what doesn’t and how to calibrate to it.
You can’t get stronger by reading books on weightlifting, you have to actually go to the gym and lift till it hurts!
If you are going out a ton already, you can get massive shit-test experience fast by peacocking with something ridiculous or by using really sexual or offensive openers. Thats pretty much jumping into the flames lol I recommend you do it at a bar/club you don’t normally go to because you will fuck up a bunch and probably piss some people off till you internalize it all. :)
You’re right, YaReally… nothing dick-ish about it. The more material I find to READ, the longer I end up staying nice and safe in my comfort zone, doing nothing more than running imaginary shit test scenarios in my head. The weightlifting analogy is dead on.
Okay then… time to take it to the streets, baby.
Wish you were here in SE Asia right now FR….I’ve had three buddies visit me here who almost immediately spit the Blue Pill and stomped on it, then went back to the US and started seeing more ass than a toilet seat.
It’s one place I’ve always wanted to visit. Plus I want to be loved long time. I’m *very* attracted to Vietnamese women.
Well FR, I *do* have a very large suitcase….
I Disagree Yareally. There is very little that is written that is SPECIFIC to openers, flirting and good game technique. It’s well intentioned to advise everyone to have an alpha frame and don’t blow the shit tests. But that’s like telling someone that’s never played a guitar to “not focus on technique, just play the music as you feel it. And hit that A Major chord”. In other words We need specifics.
Linked some stuff down below, enjoy!
Since women are programmable “The Shit Test” would be a perfect computer training game. Have 10,000 programmed shit test scenarios that the player (guy) has to go through. He can train from the comfort of home with this first person [cum] shooter. By the time you get to the field the “correct” responses, to sexbot women running their shit-test-algorithms, will be automatic.
Someone needs to make an Anki (http://ankisrs.net/ — this is awesome for memorizing stuff, human memory loss has been shown to be very predictable and the program flashes you just as you are about to forget, meaning you spen far less time relearning instead of rehearsing) deck of all recorded shit tests dissected by Heartiste and proper responses.
I think someone going through this and reading out loud each such scenario could easily improve their performance if they aren’t extroverted.
Yes, Game is indeed, powerful.
But honestly, if a lawyer can’t get pussy by simply acting cocky about the fact he’s a lawyer – making savoy richer and churning your way through all 3459 pages of The Game, just add to my cynicism.
Glamorous Career and perceived income potential, is over half the battle.
+1
Go watch one episode of “Millionaire Matchmaker” on Bravo to see why career and income do not equal half the battle being won in this day and age. Those guys literally pay to have HOT girls shoved in their faces and most of them still fuck it up.
Dude. That’s a scripted TV show.
Even worse then. The guys would have had time to prepare a decent response and failed even then. It’s not like the producers are telling them to be nerds. Scripting generally goes with the flow but regulates things so things don’t get too boring.
It’s EXACTLY like that.
Formulaic TV’s success is what prompts us to use it as an example – a meme – even here.
I caught a VH-1 “Pop-Up Video” show on a behind-the-scenes making of Jersey Shore, showing the machinations. It’s a new one: a Reality Show…about a “Reality Show.”
IRL, those rich dweebs score more facile poon just by financial reputation than a pua running gauntlets of Game.
You could use that other informative example they call real life. You could go out to high-end clubs and befriend some rich good looking dudes on Death Row and encourage them to approach girls with you and watch what happens.
They call that routine, Jersey Shore
with The Cube, and PVC Devil
Is Savoy rich? His profit center seems to be the in field bootcamps, so maybe.
The only rich guy appears to be DeAngelo. Who reportedly does 20 million a year with Double Your Dating Which is ironic, because I personally went through all his video seminars, before recently coming to the conclusion that there is nothing of substance.
Which makes sense for him as a marketer, because if he actually gave you the basic tools you wouldn’t need to keep buying the rest of the seminars (I got them free on torrents)
All you need is Mystery Method, followed by Magic Bullets. Savoy’s audio series at Love Systems is also pretty killer. And this blog of course.
[heartiste: i’ve used some of DYD’s cocky/funny lines to good effect, like the “is your friend the designated cockblock” routine. never paid him a cent though.]
I only ever referred to ‘the gunwitch method’ by Robert Allen Reyes. (free online and not politically correct read). Really well written, I can still go back, reread it and improve my comprehension of game.
He’s a lawyer, too–probably very intelligent(his writing shows that). Those helped as well. Game just brought out the best in him.
[…] A Testament To The Power Of Game (heartiste.wordpress.com) […]
25-year-old virgin here. Obviously in a very different place than Sidewinder or some of the other commenters, but I too recently buried myself in the Chateau archives with the furrow-browed tenacity of a scholarly movie montage, and in just weeks I’ve seen a great difference in how the attractive women around me act towards me and- more than that- how I feel around them. More work to do, in fact one can never stop working to better oneself, but feeling hopeful in ways my high school self never would’ve thought possible.
Thanks.
“…she sent the following beta bait …”
ROFLMAO great phrase. Is that original here or is it just me who’s never seen it before?
[heartiste: original to the chateau. *preen*]
I have a similar story, though not involving what I would call persistence, but instead maintaining frame over a long period of time. At the end, I might need some advice.
About a year ago, a pair of jawns positioned themselves near my friend and I at a bar. Once he left his spot, they did that thing women do to initiate conversation, by asking for his seat. I engaged, teased, maybe was too much on c/f and didn’t ask for any numbers or pursue it because I was still raw from a bad breakup. Afterwards, I’d see the one girl I talked to the most around nights out. Say hello, ask a few questions, tease, whatever.
Fast forward a year plus and I’m outside of a spot. See her, rap to her. She has that hint of recognition but nothing else. I hold frame, I was ACTUALLY very tempted to drop the conversation, just because I had been so used to doing that before. I think that is where you feel yourself being different when you are not outcome-dependent. I literally did not care what happened and somehow ended up invited to a spot after.
After a proper amount of time, made out with her (while friends were around but not quite ‘in front’ of them.) She also made mention about certain peeps thinking she was a bitch (a standard theme) but that’s a digression. Essentially, I touched that night and been in contact since. No dates or hang outs (not been long) and responses are not rapid generally but they are content-filled messages. I wish I had some kind of belt cam or something because whatever it was I did, I did it well. Now, no doubt, she probably was DTF in general, but she was leaving the spot alone. Certainly someone had talked to her beforehand or on some other night.
The best part is when they stare at you, then ask you what you’re looking at. Even the bitchiest seeming girls melt when they are in bed with a man (or a pretty reasonable facsimile) of one. To give further detail might blow my cover but the interplay between masculine and feminine is always amazing. To have a woman call YOU sexy (not just ask for pounding but enthusiastically address your attractiveness) is intoxicating but what really can snag a man like me is that very feminine behavior afterwards. The stolen hand touches the next day in front of friends, laying in post-coital glow and enjoying the meandering conversation and laughs, teases (both ways too) and submissive and tender displays. I have a problem because I kinda like the dame but I have a feeling she’s a party girl (though not necessarily a super slut, though not inexperienced either) or aware of her relative value and, while she’s hot, I am not so sure I want to spend my time being hyper-aware of my own moves just to get the girl on date 2 (or 1, however you want to think of it)
Any tips?
I should probably add that I have other prospects, including one certain one, so this isn’t quite the case of “go get some more” as much as I prefer to see how far I can get this one to go and find myself overthinking/enjoying this interaction.
Sometimes you induce negativity most in something you really want and that was going well. Turns out I just had to grab my balls and take charge, be cunning and witty enough on the phone and I earned my second date. Touched it several times last night/this AM. She is already saying she doesn’t want to let herself go head over heels over me. Which means she will.
HA. The craigslist ad where a 51 year black woman is asking for a 36-51 year old. I’m almost positive a black man meeting all those traits would be able to swoop 20-40 year old women with ease. But this is a trend I’ve noticed online, women who are QUITE comfortable with dating someone a handful of years younger but do NOT want anyone more than a few years older than they. What accounts for this trend? I mean, you could meet a 28 year old fat dude, or a 40 year old paleo-hardened guy who looks young. Why pre-emptively discount age like that? Most women I’ve met prefer someone same age or older.
[heartiste: it doesn’t matter what women demand in online ads, because outrageous standards are so far removed from reality that women like that are usually left sad and alone in real life. a lot of loser women who do the online thing subconsciously know they aren’t going to get laid by the man of their dreams, so they throw all reason and temperance to the wind and just go hog wild laundry listing their fantasy expectations. it’s more about ego catharsis than about actually meeting a man.]
I’ve noticed the exact opposite, that online women (early 20s) are comfortable with men into their early to late 30s. I rarely see women who want men to be only the same age or a little older and have never seen one who wants a younger man.
I’m living proof of this. I’m 35 and my new main is 22 and a solid 8 with no makeup, and all the women I’ve been with since my last ex and I split have been in their mid 20s. My last ex turned 32 in January IIRC and the one before her is now 37 who I kept around as I was still cutting my teeth and had confidence issues.
The whole paradigm flips when you get into your early/mid 30s. A 32-35 year old with his shit together (financially and inner-game), and who stays in shape, is analogous to the big tittied 19 year old bombshell.
“A 32-35 year old with his shit together (financially and inner-game), and who stays in shape, is analogous to the big tittied 19 year old bombshell.”
I agree with that.
What is your response to the “numbers game” argument?
[heartiste: i strongly suspect you are a troll, but since i am in a magnanimous mood, i’ll answer your question. the “numbers game” fallacy is similar to the “hours game” fallacy. think of a great musician. he has to put in a lot of hours of practice to get great at his craft. once greatness is achieved, a person asserting an “hours game” argument would contend that the musician’s continued greatness depends on all the hours he puts into playing. but that is not the case. a great musician, once trained, can play five minutes a week and still be great compared to the non-musician or hobbyist musician.
so it is with game and pickup. logically and unavoidably, most neophytes will make more approaches in order to put their game theory to practice in the field. that is how you get good. simply reading about game and approaching one woman per year won’t cut it. but once a number of up-front approaches have been made — once the steepest part of the learning curve has been crested — and the aspiring seducer has improved his game acumen, then he can reduce his number of approaches while still enjoying a very good sex and love life because his odds of any one approach resulting in a fuck close have measurably increased over his previous, game-less baseline.
and from personal experience, this is exactly what happened to me. when i first tried game, i kept my approach numbers at the same level i had before game. once i started tasting improved success using game, i increased my approach number because 1. i was excited to see how much i could accomplish using game, and 2. i had to approach more women to try out all the new things i was learning.
naturally, my close rate increased with my increased approach rate, owing mostly to my game skills but also partly to the larger pool of women i was hitting on. (in contrast, had i increased my pool of prospects while using NO GAME, my close rate would not have increased by nearly as much.) then, after a few years of this fucking around for fun and sexual profit, i decided that i was interested in longer term relations with women, so i gradually pared back my number of approaches to about the same level i had before learning game. and a funny thing happened. i was having more success with the fewer women i was approaching than i would have had without game. i had a skillset called game and it increased my positive interactions with women across the board. iow, my RATE of rejection was lower, and my rate of success higher.
that’s the way doubters need to view the numbers game fallacy: numbers matter, but game matters more. the two work in concert until enough competency is achieved that numbers are no longer needed.]
That was a fuckin solid response. I’m stealing it for when I explain that stuff to new guys lol
No, for the nth time, I am not a troll. Thank for your response.
If what you write is true, then that is good evidence against the numbers game argument. However, on the internet, you can find a lot of “field reports” from gamers who do insane numbers of approaches with pathetically low success rates, who subsequently proclaim that “game” works. For example:
http://www.rsdnation.com/node/206177/forum
Also, while “game” encompasses learning to be more confident, how is the fact that adopting the full package of “game” worked for you evidence that any particular spect of game works rather than simply being more confident?
Why not go out and find out the answers to your questions? It’s all sitting there, waiting for you. You just have to leave your house.
“And odds are good I’ll slip up or get out-gunned eventually by a higher quality guy”
Now that you’ve banged her the odds are in your favor.
[heartiste: may the pussy be ever in your favor!]
I had a girl say this “You never comprimise AT ALL!!! … you always have to get your way… ” I think thats what I like about you though…”
You know, my ex would accuse me of wanting “to win’ all the time, and I have to say, I don’t think she was always turned on by it. But then again, maybe she was. Some chicks were in such control over loser ex-bfs (I don’t mean loser criminals but loser beta types) that they are threatened by someone who won’t let them win their petty little victories.
girl: you never compromise! you always have to get your way!
you: that’s how i roll.
Sidewinder, great breakdown. Had a similar experience with an older (38) but still petite and young looking Asian flight attendant.
I met her in September. I gamed her. First time we were supposed to meet up she flaked.
I maintained frame. Ignored her as well. That sparked her to text me saying I was “rude” for blanking her at a party.
As time progressed, I reconnected.
Long-story short, made out with her this past weekend. Then left to go to a party I wanted to go to.
She remarked to me: “your texts are always so short to me, like one word…”
Also, “You’re so rude sometimes…”
Me: You love it…
Passed her shit test. When I met up with her for drinks this past weekend, she made sure she told me “the manager” greeted her when she walked in and bought her a drink.
Me; Good for you…you should have got him to give us a bottle of champagne
Her; Yah, he cut me off when you came in.
Me: You weren’t working hard enough…we should be drinking a bottle of champagne right now…
All the game stuff works.
in some cases these girls who are either attractive or work in high-profile ie flight attendant/hostess type jobs have tons of guys hitting on them…
Two things about your story…
1) Not being needy
2) banging other chicks meant you weren’t emotionally involved.
These are cardinal rules.
I met this girl at a political convention (Romney for pres. 2012) and man did she fall hard for the cynicysm/idealism of the campaign managers.
My theory is I rarely see liberal Alphas. Any alpha I’ve ever known was conservative (or conservative but can’t stand the political class). Saw a picture recently of Obama’s Chicago reelection staff. All white, all looked like emaciated herbs.
BD, I’m a 6’2″ alpha, an Obama volunteer, and lifelong Democrat. It beats the hell out of the alternative.
However, I have read that registered Republican males make, on average, seven thousand dollars more per year than registered Democrat males. Which supports your alpha theory.
Anyways, now you’ve met one. There’s more of us too. A few have even occupied the White House.
One more thing. Here’s a prediction that the Chateau may want to debate: Our first female president will be shaped like a tall alpha male. She will have broad shoulders, a fairly deep alto voice, and be no less than 5’10”. Hilary doesn’t have those qualities (despite having the mental acuity).
[heartiste: i rubber stamp this prediction. i also predict she will have to be married to an alpha male who isn’t perceived as a weak, “supportive” beta herb.]
Jason, would you consider yourself an outlier within your group though? Most liberals I know dress like hipsters and are less masculine than Hilary. Game just seems to me like something these types would think beneath them — something dirty like conservatism.
P.S. Any time I’d ask a liberal why they take one position or another, the reasoning always goes back to some emotional reasoning. And I beleive that’s where I’m having trouble understanding the Alpha-liberal connection. How can liberals who often base their positions on emotional “feelings” and “fairness” embrace Alpha-ism, which is based on real life truths no matter how offensive they may be. Take any offensive issue, and liberals are on the offended’s side. Help me out Heartiste. Know what I’m trying to say?
I was a typical urban liberal hipster until I noticed all the other hipsters were either ugly, wusses, or had messed up childhoods. Then all the spite, resentment, and jealousy of liberalism was exposed to me and I couldn’t stand to be a part of it anymore.
It seems as though the term liberal needs to be defined. BD and Other are defining a liberal by where he lives and how he dresses.
But I’m defining a liberal by political and economic beliefs and education level. People who become high-information voters ultimately skew liberal because the alternative — Repugnicans, unfettered capitalism, family breakdown, eventual oligarchy, all predicted by Schumpater, etc — is unthinkable.
Historically, note also that Supreme Court members, no matter how conservative at first, tend to skew liberal as time marches on. They realize that they are literally the last line of defense against that type of legally sanctioned inequality. Which is not “conservative”, despite its name.
So I’m not talking about haircuts or messed-up childhoods. Urban hipsters are weird crowd anyways.
I think Jason is an exception that proves the rule.
I am an isolated conservative/libertarian in a largely left-wing academic community and let me tell you the guys around here are left wing feministing schlubs.
They have so bought into the classic internal contradictions of feminism — oh, you poor gals, so oppressed, but yet you are woman, I hear you roar!! That sort of bullshit.
Of course, some of the Republicans I meet are pedestalizers of a different sort — no sex before marriage, etc. etc. Beta behavior crosses political lines.
However, if you a left wing male, you are highly highly HIGHLY likely to be seriously beta.
I believe Jason could be an Alpha. I’m just certain if we polled 100 alphas, more would be conservative leaning. And one other thing I’ve learned about Liberals (which Jason proved in his comment). They love to say how much smarter they are than Neanderthal conservatives. See how he dropped that Schumpater reference. Reminds me of a liberal dude at work that was always trying to one-up me. He challenged me to an online IQ test. We was absolutely dumb-founded how someone with such “backward” social views scored 140 while he scored 133. In my opinion, “smart-dropping” as Jason did isn’t Alpha.
This is what makes leftists really angry about game – the fact that men are living better lives.
With the greatest respect to all the seduction oddballs, seduction geniuses and outright men’s rights bad-asses, CH is just a killllllllllllllller resource for explaining the fucked up used-to-be-invisible shit that engines today’s social and sexual reality….
A question: on a follow-up date with a girl I accidentally attracted at a party a few years ago, she eh dropped the ‘what do you think of feminism?’ bomb….in fairness it was my fault for accidentally mentioning how Freud fascinated me in my undergraduate days… Looking back it was obviously a massive fucking shit test! I failed it but humming and hawing… what should I have said?
Did she know you were trying to placate her?
Most women under 23 who don’t identify with feminism will be attracted to a guy who can be amusing like Bill Maher against feminists, with caveats:
Caveat 1: Be careful how you tell a woman about the reality of women aging faster than men, unless you’re talking to a woman under 23 who is giving you problems. Even then, if it’s probably necessary to bring it up (and more men should bring it up), do so with the skill of a bomb removal expert.
Don’t ever tell a woman that you’ve ever personally rejected another woman for getting too old. Don’t do that. That’s way too much information.
Caveat 2: Be careful about condemning slut culture because that might cause someone to exclude you from her plans for the night or even for the next month. Still, if I know I’m with a girl who isn’t going to put out on the first date, I will refer to the HBO show “Sluts in the City” which always gets a laugh while showing the woman I’m not a metrosexual who took that show seriously.
If they’re active political socialists and they know about and agree with Sandra Fluke for instance, you probably shouldn’t be targeting them at all or at least only for an SNL so no need to talk about abortion or specific issues that have recently been politicized.
By the way, “with the skill of a bomb removal expert” doesn’t mean you should talk about the subject hesitantly or with any fear. It means that you should have practiced how to tactfully and quickly get across the points that you expect her to agree with.
Hesitancy and fear are two things that should never go with any discussion about feminism with a woman.
girl: what do you think of feminism?
you: it’s for old hags and ugly girls.
[heartiste: other good answers, some of which are less confrontational:
“what do you think of feminism?”
– great for my sex life!
– child’s play.
– it’s like religion. makes people feel good.
– great! girls buy me drinks now.
– dunno. never ate one.
– you mean lesbianism?
– i don’t.
– love it. i’d be married if it wasn’t for feminism.]
A friend of a friend is a hard-core feminist. Whenever I say “girl” she blurts out “woman”. When I picked up on her being like this, constantly trying to shove equality and girl power down my throat, I just took it and ran with it and egg her on treating her feminism as a shit test of sorts and her prostetations are like the temper tantrums of a small child. If I was attracted to her I could have banged her 6 ways to Sunday–and this isn’t a bs statement, I’ve gotten to 2nd base with her and had to stop myself. Just wasn’t into it at all.
Mark my words, feminism is just a giant shit test. Sadly society as a whole failed it pretty spectacularly.
itsme,
Your response makes you sound angry.
Out of CH’s responses, “I don’t.” is best for single girls. Married women will appreciate the last one.
yeah i know, when i posted that yesterday i was in a pissy mood.
‘i thought that was for ugly girls’ in response to good looking girls saying they’re feminists works well as a neg, though.
All the basics including a huge section on Opening:
http://www.fastseduction.com/guide/
Shit-Tests dissected by Tyler Durden:
http://www.fastseduction.com/cgi-bin/search.cgi?action=retrieve&grp=5&mn=104141726052964
Happy reading. :)
Oops shit that was supposed to be in reply to Big Bang up above who was asking for this stuff. Effin phone lol
I got it YaReally. I appreciate the links. Thanks.
One other advantage of game manifests itself in the workplace. I am a married man who works in a 50/50 male/female workplace. I read CH and use game on my wife because when she is happy, my life is easier.
What’s interesting to me is that I have increased my career success by using game principles on the females I work with. It seems like the women have more respect for my views and contributions when I gently tease them or game them in other ways. I find that the girls are starting to wait up for me as we are filing out of a room after a meeting. And are giving my views more credence.
Here’s a good one I used yesterday. Office hottie and me are walking down the hall to a meeting. She says, “I have been SO cold today”. Me: Put my arm around her shoulders and pull her towards me. “come here sugar I’ll keep you warm”. And she melted into me as we walked. Now of course we are both married to others, so nothing will happen. But these little tricks can add to your influence at work.
Game works EVERYWHERE.
Sidewinder, how did you meet her? Did you approach her? What was the setting and what did you say and how did you ask her out?
Sidewinder–
Well done bro.
Sidewinder–
Yeah I don’t know why guys don’t more routinely make a big deal out of that when talking about how good a girl is in bed. That matters a lot to me too. M is definitely easily orgasmic, and often multi too.