Put away your illusions about smart, ugly girls and dizzy, hot blondes. If you want to know which type of girl will be better at cutting through your cadtastic bullshit, it’s the hot babes for the sixth sense win.
Women in contrast, often have low waist-to-hip ratios (WHR); i.e., narrow waists and broad hips that approximate an hour-glass configuration. Women with low WHR’s are rated as more attractive, healthier, and more fertile. They also tend to have more attractive voices, lose their virginity sooner, and have more sex partners. WHR has also been linked with general cognitive performance. In the present study we expand upon previous research examining the role of WHR in cognition. We hypothesized that more feminine body types, as indexed by a low WHR, would be associated with cognitive measures of the female “brain type,” such as mental state attribution and empathy because both may depend upon the activational effects of estrogens at puberty. We found that women with low WHRs excel at identifying emotional states of other people and show a cognitive style that favors empathizing over systemizing. […]
It is interesting to note that our findings suggest lower WHR females, who are more likely to be targeted for dishonest courtship, may be better at identifying disingenuous claims of commitment.
Executive summary: You can string along an ugly chick a lot longer than you can a hot chick. But then, why would you want to?
Sex differences are the result of eons of social interactions between men and women with differing reproductive goals. Gene variants have evolved to equip men and women with the armaments they need to successfully navigate the mating market. Men have evolved penetrative bunker busters; women have evolved deeper bunkers. It’s an arms race with no end in sight, and no purpose; its existence is its own reward.
These sex-based gene variants aren’t uniform; “girly” genes are found less numerously in masculine women, and “manly” genes are found less frequently in feminine men. There is a general psychosocial sex dichotomy that is blurred at the edges, where the girly and manly gene clusters are not as clearly delineated. Thus you find, as this study concludes, that manjawed freaks like feminists are more likely than neotenous beauties are to fall for a player’s empty promises. Maybe that’s why feminists are so adamant about inserting the state into sexual affairs: they need a smarter surrogate to protect them from their own naivete.
It makes perfect sense that hot chicks would be better at sniffing out pump and dumpers from buy and holders, because they have inherited traits from their ancestral sisters that protect them from the kinds of men who are very good at seducing women at the lowest price point possible; men who, it stands to reason, would want to seduce only the hottest women, and a splendid variety of hot women, at that.
This study should also give pause to those game haters who believe players only target ugly chicks. If that were the case, the ugly girls would have evolved defensive mechanisms against the plunderings of players. But the fugs remain naive and easily manipulable, because, analogous to beta males and their rose-colored views of beautiful women, they rarely get the chance to experience the worst, or the best, sides of desirable men.

And yet I STILL find that the hottest girls enjoy the dishonest courtship and would settle for nothing less than the guys who give it to them. Their defense and detection mechanism, at least in today’s freakshow world, it aimed more at finding those “disingenuous commitment” guys and having sex with them, than avoiding them.
Not that I’m saying this theory is wrong, just that it seems to be in conflict with the rule that, among chicks who dig jerks (that is, nearly all chicks), the hottest chicks dig them the most.
[heartiste: jerks have been known to lie about their intentions.]
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No, it’s totally consistent. The men with the weakest bunker-busters will assort themselves with the least desirable women with the weakest bunkers, while confident jerks — men with stronger bunker-busters — will go after the hotter girls.
Actually, all guys go after the hotter girls, but only the care-nothing jerks actually succeed. And, likewise, all girls fall for the care-nothing jerks, but the less desirable among them get dumped for a hotter specimen and left for the betas to pick up.
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The hottest chicks these days aren’t often the lowest whr girls, IF you adjust for fatness. Low whr correlate with high estrogen and lower testosterone, while the competitiveness that gets girls to schlep themselves from the couch to the gym, correlates with higher testosterone.
I have been looking at this for some time, and have noticed that amongst, say, a cohort of 8ths, the ones that are the most obviously feminine, are less likely to fall for “playas” and jerks than their less obviously feminine sisters. I do have some suspicion that at least some of that is mediated by their less competitive nature have enabled them to avoid quite as hard confrontations with their daddys during adolescence, since my limited sample seems to indicate they talk up their dad more than the average manjawed girl.
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In fitness terms, it is infinitely better to be pumped and dumped than never to be pumped at all. The ugly girls aren’t clueless. They’re striking the least worst bargain they can.
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yeah, maybe the fugs think that offering to alphas a no questions asked attitude is a better work-around than trying to sleuth intent.
Also, maybe the hotties are better at checking for congruency rather than honesty. Who’s pretending to be alpha and who isn’t, not necessarily who will pump and run.
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The study raises some interesting questions:
1. “Women with low WHR’s… tend to… lose their virginity sooner, and have more sex partners.”
Science confirms that hot chicks are sluttier. Since men prefer hot chicks, perhaps men prefer sluts?
And what of the opinion that ugly feminist chicks are actually sluttier?
2. “women with low WHRs excel at identifying emotional states of other people… our findings suggest lower WHR females… may be better at identifying disingenuous claims of commitment.”
Did they present any proof other than hot women can detect emotions better?
Maybe hot chicks can sniff out players because, see #1 above, they’ve banged tons of players.
3. If chicks with high WHRs can’t detect emotional states, wouldn’t that make them more like men? Perhaps they have more testosterone, which is known to make a person oblivious to others’ emotions. If high WHR chicks have more testosterone, wouldn’t they be more sluttier than their prettier sisters?
Or maybe all women are sluts, but only the pretty ones have more opportunity to indulge with cads and thus more able to detect cads.
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I’ve known some girls who were hot to lose it at like 13. They develop young, start a taste for hanging out with older kids (e.g., 16) and boom goes the dynamite. I think it’s because they’re more socially adept and they get approached earlier.
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don’t burden Me with your logic!
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Conclusion: do not game hot chicks, just be yourself with them.
[heartiste: lol. better conclusion: if you’re gonna game hot chicks, you’ll need very tight game.]
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just be yourself alpha with them.
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(The “yourself” was supposed to have a line through it, but it appears that doesn’t work.)
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work on your inner game, if you want to bang hot chicks. “game” is simply a mimic of the behavior of man with good inner game. and mimicry won´t work with hot chicks, according to this study.
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Just be yoursalpha? 😉
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even better conclusion: if you’re gonna game hot chicks, you’ll need very tight game (not being yourself) OR very good inner game (being yourself).
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You can’t have good inner game if yourself sucks.
Develop both your game and inner game.
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uh, no. Its purpose is to advance the genetic fitness of the species, generation after generation. the competing aims of each sex is part of the design: men to spread the seed as widely as possible, women to admit only the highest-quality DNA.
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“Its purpose is to advance the genetic fitness of the species”
And that’s where you missed the point. Nature ain’t got no purpose. except if you believe in a super monkey boss in the sky.
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“super monkey boss in the sky”
lol. but wait! which super monkey boss? Please specify.
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Oh no! I wouldn’t want to upset Queen B.
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Many things in nature, particularly biological processes, have clear purposes even if there’s no designer.
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Tell that to the dinosaurs.
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You mean no purpose that your human mind can understand. But regardless of whether life has a purpose or not there are still certain mating patterns in man and animals. So you can either live and reproduce or take the gaspipe :o)
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“nature”‘s purpose is one species domination of all OTHER life formz it’s called evolution, perfection, competition, sperm races, great fun overall, i think all we can do is just go along and play be players yeah!
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No. No one gives a fuck about the “good of the species”.
Everyone is in it for themselves
… or for their families
… or for their ethnic group.
Unless space aliens show up, no one is doing anything for the good of the species.
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Not consciously but all of our behaviour is subconscious.We rarely understand why we are doing certain things.You know within a second whether a female is good looking but yet your conscious mind is not able to work this fast to analyse her traits and it doesn’t matter what your IQ is.
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What you have to do is catch a girl unawares. For instance, this afternoon as I was staremastering away, little did I know I would come home to find that I’d not only been virtually married but that I had a new sister as well. I’m a little put out I missed it, but if I hurry maybe I can still make it to the reception.
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You’re supposed to be
a lot put out
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I had a sixth sense premonition that you were stare-mastering at me the whole time.
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@Geisha,
Oh oh, does that mean you are trying to loose weight?!
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No.
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“.. no purpose. It’s existence is its own reward.” why always secrete these articles of faith? what is it about C20th materialists that makes you follow them? bless their taxpayer funded heart.
This blog post had a purpose, is it true you believe that nature acts with no purpose until miraculously? creates (implies purpose but the materialist insists it’s just the appearance) men and women who act and think with purpose every minute of the day?
Not many will take that seriously. It undermines your credibility.
The founding fathers of the US wrote that power by nature expands, now if you take independent access to purpose and the good out of the hands of the common man it is you (the state as always) that can then tell people what their purpose is. Tradition and common sense is far too democratic, materialism is ironically wonderfully purposeful – it helps to concentrate power for those who really want (more teleological language) it.
Heartiste, your purpose is to teach liberty, but what you give with one hand you steal with the other by holding uncritically(and therefore more effectively spreading) the very world view that was the soil and seed of this loss of liberty.
In Dante’s inferno, Satan is frozen in ice, his rage melts the ice but as he flaps his angelic wings to escape he re-freezes the water and gets stuck again – the simple truth about the futility of evil, ‘evil oft does evil mar’. ‘violence does in truth recoil upon the violent, and the schemer falls into the pit which he digs for another’. Your posts have this element of futility. Purpose but no purpose. Purpose for very restricted circumscribed ends (those allowed by liberalism) by ultimately but the arrow of purpose must stay inside the liberal bubble – no mention of where the arrow came from or whether it might point outside the bubble is allowed.
It’s for this reason we’re amongst the most unfree people to have ever lived. You’re currently aiding and abetting this regime.
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This is absolutely true. The knock-outs, as stated by H many times, know the score of the “game” because they’re controlling the scoreboard.
Add intelligence to that desirable WHR, and you’ve got … well, basically you’ve got my wife. From what I understand, she’d destroyed many PUAs on a daily basis before I met her. 95% of the stuff that guys pull here would 1) first make her laugh and then 2) trigger a blistering retort.
Yours truly managed to make it into her bunker using my height, wit, and zero-bullshit strategy: I nuked the entire idea of game. I told her that I wasn’t like any other guy she may or may not have strung along (can’t remember the acronym for this separating technique) because I had many options. Implication: I’m in control. She liked that. There was never any cooling off period either: I kept the pressure on, saying stuff like, I’m coming over Thursday whether you like it or not, you’d better be ready, those heels are embarrassing, go change, you’re talking way too much, etc.
All semi-playful, of course, and she fell hard (as had I, of course). Later on, compromise becomes necessary in an LTR, but you gotta play it benignly alpha-tyrannical at first for the hotties to respect you.
All this occurred before I discovered CH, but full props anyways. The concepts he discusses here really do work: in less than a month (I learned later), my wife had decided that I was “the one”.
So, happily ever after. Of course, if you scoff at LTRs and would rather plunder the pussies of endless strangers, that’s a different litter of kittens, and you should ignore this comment.
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Yours truly managed to make it into her bunker using my height, wit, and zero-bullshit strategy: I nuked the entire idea of game.
…and then you go into detail about how you used game.
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“From what I understand, she’d destroyed many PUAs on a daily basis before I met her.”
And you believed her? For her to identify a PUA (seduction artist, aloof alpha asshole, CH follower, whatever) by recognizing scripted routines or methods is more telling of a clumsy PU attempt, as opposed to her keenness on identifying an expert PUA. When game principles are executed well by a skilled seducer it’s not recognized by the subject. That’s the whole idea. And even the most skilled still admittedly fumble on attempts with beautiful women.
“I nuked the entire idea of game”
But did you?
I told her that I wasn’t like any other guy she may or may not have strung along (can’t remember the acronym for this separating technique) because I had many options.
DHV: Pre-selection routine.
I kept the pressure on, saying stuff like, I’m coming over Thursday whether you like it or not, you’d better be ready, those heels are embarrassing, go change, you’re talking way too much, etc.
DHV: Alpha dominant behavior, tell-assertive, neg, meet closing
but you gotta play it benignly alpha-tyrannical at first for the hotties to respect you
Agreed.
I’m not patronizing you man, if you got your lady and are happy- more power to ya. The description of the conversation with your wife *confirms* game principles. You didn’t nuke it.
Referencing the post along the lines of describing your wife’s ability to “destroy many PUAs” is more appropriately characterized as a general characteristic in women’s evolutionary biology. All else equal, women are equipped with a better sensory system for discerning emotional state from others. Coupled with your wife’s high SMV (gave her lots of practice) I’m sure she was able to spot clunky nervous PU attempts with ease. This improved female capability (over men) comes from their biological design for child rearing. Being able to communicate with infants that can’t talk or communicate themselves is what human evolution needed while the men were out killing, building and ruling. And fucking. Heh.
I’ll make another post referencing more info.
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Thanks, you two, that was my bad. I should’ve written that “I gave her the impression that I was nuking the idea of game”.
Cuz obviously I did use game, and it worked. (Even though I told her “I hate playing games”. And I really did avoid the wait-four-days-before-calling kind of scarcity technique.)
Still, I never studied PUA culture, except for reading the last month of posts here, so I don’t know the terminology. What’s “tell-assertive” and “meet closing”?
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Cool, glad you didn’t take it in the negative.
Tell-assertive:
Social science term, basically means to TELL for an action, instead of being a bitch and asking. Like “meet me at 8pm be ready heels/skirt” vs “hey do you want to hang out later at 8pm? and would it be ok if you wear heels and a skirt?” Alphas tell. betas ask.
Meet closing:
setting a date. I call them “meets” because “dates” imply I’m going to spend money on her. I don’t want her to get the wrong idea. 🙂
check out my other post about male and female brains. its help understand why women have personal relationships with furniture, cats, iPads and shit.
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Ah HA. Thank you, Ripp.
Tell-assertive is pure MAGIC. I’ve used it for years without knowing the term. With firm eye contact and square-on body language, it’s taken me many wonderful places.
That’s probably the one thing betas should learn most about speaking to women: Eliminate the interrogative from your syntax. Instead of “Do you want ___?”, say “I bet you want ____.” Then argue nicely if she says no.
(Of course, in marriage, you eventually have to tone that shit down about 50%, but I still do it.)
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“Eliminate the interrogative from your syntax.”
Yes. A fundamental concept is to take any ‘beta’ question you would ask and convert it into a statement. More specifically using your example above, a ‘cold read.’
Beta
“so, where do you work?”
Alpha
“You look like a greeter from walmart.” (with playful and assertive non verbal as you describe.)
That’ll get a much better response than the boring dry beta line above.
What I’ve found in learning under more skilled than I, and also coaching those who are learning is that most men have some elements of natural game already existing before the discover the knowledgesphere.
There are some good posts in CH archives re LTR management that you’ll probably benefit from, if you haven’t already found them.
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you learn this in OCS. never ask anything of a subordinate — always give an order. which can be very informal, especially if you’re speaking to another officer.
and never do it with your superior.
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Pal, as soon as you say “I do” you automatically drop to a beta (assuming you weren’t one to begin with)or an omega. Even a REAL Alpha gets demoted after marrying. When you live with and see someone all of the time there’s no mystery and you just become an ordinary slub regardless of who you are.
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There’s some truth in that statement, Whammer, but there are also ways to keep betatude from occurring.
One way is simple: Stand by your opinions. In an argument, never … back … down. This societal pressure towards bullshit like “the woman is always right” leads to terrible marriages. I’ve gone to the mat with my woman on occasion and emerged bruised and battered but unrepentant. This way, no matter what the outcome, good or bad, she still respects my backbone, which is my victory in the long run.
I’m learning, though, that doing this is not typical husband behavior. We’re a pretty alpha couple, the both of us.
You’re right about the loss of mystery. I think separate bathrooms definitely helps reduce that, as does spending several days apart. There are also little tricks such as buying new clothing and acting like it’s no big deal when she notices you wearing them.
Final point: If you’re doing it right, married life and single life are actually the same amount of work. The reframing of perceptions never ends.
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“This study should also give pause to those game haters who believe players only target ugly chicks. If that were the case, the ugly girls would have evolved defensive mechanisms against the plunderings of players.”
The game haters have a point here.
[heartiste: if a game hater ever has a point, it’s guaranteed to be totally coincidental.]
They’re the ones who talk about how “quality” women would see right through the aspiring player.
[most women would see through a guy running bad game. as you hit on hotter chicks, your game, inner game as well, has to be tighter. this is not news, nor is it an indictment of game.]
Higher quality (hotter) women are harder to fool so guys learning game will either gravitate towards lower quality women until they improve or will still strike out with hotties.
[“still”? you assume no improvement. as a man improves his game, he can begin to pick up hotter (and younger! never forget younger) chicks.]
Either of these will likely lead to weak guys becoming embittered and giving up in frustration.
[whether game works or not is irrelevant to the fact that weak men will always be with us, giving up and becoming embittered at their sad lots in life.]
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So it is gullibility rather than limited options that cause so many of the medium-quality women to try to lever up out of their league?
I’ll admit that it is easier to imagine that behavior that is against their self-interest is due to naivete rather than wanton recklessness or calculated risk-taking.
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Wanton recklessness and calculated risk-taking are masculine traits. More masculine women are also more likely to pursue the man. And unless the man is a beta with no options, that rarely works.
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Professor: female hypergamy is your answer.
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duh
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Hmmmm. If I had a wife as hot as Jason claims to have, and is happily ever after with his situation, what’s he doing here? He should be gaming wifey into the sack, what?
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Ha. Most here would rate her an 8 or 9, depending on taste. Of course, gaming her into the sack is a constant, as married men know. Married life and single life are fairly close together in that regard.
I’m here because the insights into females are quite true, and even helpful with marriage (minus the hate). Plus I’m very curious about where the hell our society is going, sexually. And the science (about which I know little) is fascinating.
But I’m happily off the market, if that’s what you’re implying.
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You may be happily off the market, but don’t make the mistake of telling your wife that.
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My girlfriend is either a “9” or “10”, depending on what you think intelligence does for a woman’s level of attractiveness.
The way I got her was (fundamentally) by being myself. I “act” confident because i am confident, i lead people because i like doing it, and I am “dominant” because i like being an accomplished person in my fields of interest.
The bottom line, though, was that i was born as nothing, and learned to genuinely be all of these things. Maybe you guys should start working on who you really are, instead of working on convincing people of someone who you are not.
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+1
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Your point of view does not fundamentally contradict the precepts of charismatic self development. Thus your comment registers only as condescending signal noise. You’re not wrong. But you’re also only telling a small part of the story.
Men can, and need to, develop both their professional lives, and charismatic, confident personality traits. They are not mutually exclusive, on the contrary, these are salutary, symbiotic, and mutually developed skills & traits.
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Understand your objection, however the implication that GAME is simply being “someone who you are not” is a hasty generalization.
‘Inner game’ as it is known, is precisely what you describe. Part of game is learning to establish your identity. And further to the point is that some men need a re-wiring of their identity to flesh out elements that are not useful for seduction; and strengthen ones that are.
An example is an introverted, over-analytic type person that speaks slowly and more mono-tone. An accountant or engineer profession usually fits this personality type. This type of person can still become a charming, charismatic mother fucker, but he needs to understand that his default communication style and preferred trade aren’t vagina tinglers.
On the other side there are plenty of loud mouthed jock dude ‘pseudo alpha’ guys that may appear they get lots of women but have no game:
https://heartiste.wordpress.com/2007/09/19/defining-the-alpha-male/
Game is more complicated than “convincing people of someone who you are not.”
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That’s called inner game, dumbass.
gtfo
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It has been my experience that ugly girls are not easier to seduce. They know they are not attractive and don’t believe any bullshit you try to feed them. Plus they often have a chip on their shoulders and want to get even with any man who comes near. Don’t even give an ugly woman a last-call mercy fuck.
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true. but lots of ugly girls will fuck a hot guy who hits on them because it beats going home with a loser guy or without any guy.
that the hot guy will never call her again is something ugly girls understand and accept. one of the many costs of being ugly.
[heartiste: you’re making the classic anti-gamer category error of assuming men exercise no choice in the mating market. (i say “anti-gamer” error, because i’ve noticed those trolls like to use this false argument you present here.) fact: very few ugly girls are gonna have the chance to sleep with “hot” guys. why? because hot guys don’t want to sleep with ugly girls, even for one night. they are busy working the magic with better looking girls. ugly girls can occasionally shoot out of their league, but only with men a little better than their own SMV. high value men are as unattainable to ugly chicks as beautiful women are to loser men.]
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Unless they’re ovulating, that is.
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“We found that women with low WHRs excel at identifying emotional states of other people and show a cognitive style that favors empathizing over systemizing.”
Men and women are equal! Except their biological design is different, they’re brains are wired differently and they think differently. Proven. Validated.
Women, and especially women of higher SMV are well refined in reading the emotional states of other humans. Especially infants and children, as this is how humanity procreated for centuries. Women plopped out kids, raised them, hung around the tribe, gossiped and cleaned shit. Men built shit, killed shit, protected the tribe and fucked the women. This fact plays right into the fundamentals of game and a core reason why game is an advanced set of skills that most men are too weak to achieve. Learning to ninja through the hot woman’s emotional bullshit radar is game, and its not easy.
Women that have low WHR, have higher SMV, higher estrogen (feminine qualities), attract more men and thus are more refined in harnessing their emotional beta radar to weed out beta men. And they do.
Here is the beauty of the equation: Because men have the underlying tools to build, we naturally harbor our intelligence for problem solving complicated systems that are of critical importance: GETTING PUSSY. Or, simulating the act of procreation, for the layman. Whereas women harbor their intelligence to sponge attention from multiple sources when faced with problems. Ya know, yammer on about how “they feel.”
And there you have it.
To address the recent decades of feminist doctrine that has empowered women’s crusade of hypergamous slutitude, intelligent alpha men developed systems to counter it. Game. And part of game is learning non-verbal communication: how to read it, how to control it and how to execute the most attractive communication frames to slay the hot pussy dragon. In essence, controlling your emotions and controlling the emotions of others.
Men, don’t be discouraged by the hot woman’s beta radar. We have the advantage. Systematic intelligence beats empathetic intelligence. A system can be created to learn empathetic cognitive skills. Learn game. Bang hotter women.
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-scientific-fundamentalist/200803/male-brain-vs-female-brain-i-why-do-men-try-figure-out-t-0
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I’m not saying it’s necessarily wrong, but you can’t conclude any explanation about evolved traits from this study. It could very well be that the attractive women simply learn from experience which guys are disingenuous. Attractive women are going to have a larger pool of potential suitors than ugly chicks, so they’ll have more opportunities to realize the truth of male nature.
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“It makes perfect sense that hot chicks would be better at sniffing out pump and dumpers from buy and holders, because they have inherited traits from their ancestral sisters…”
Yeah, I’m finding the evolutionary biology/genetics argument less than compelling here. There is no “hot chick” gene that we know of; hot chicks are just as likely as ugly chicks to have high-T manjawed daughters, especially since they tend to breed with more masculine men (exhibit A: Demi Moore.) I seriously doubt there is a strong genetic component to this phenomenon.
It’s probably just behavioral in this case, i.e. hot women get hit on by more men at an earlier age, thus they develop a more finely honed bullshit detector. Just because everything isn’t socially constructed doesn’t mean that NOTHING is.
[heartiste: this isn’t an either/or situation. there is an ecological aspect in that hot chicks have likely accumulated more experience dealing with players. likewise, there is a genetic component in that hot chicks have inherited genes that affect their hormonal expression and the femaleness of their brains (not to mention their bodies).]
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P.S. This is why evo psych has so many haters – people go nuts with it and come up with far-fetched evolutionary theories around phenomena that often have a more simple cognitive/behavioral explanation. As always, correlation =/= causation.
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Not sure if my earlier post made it, but here is great supporting link:
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-scientific-fundamentalist/200803/male-brain-vs-female-brain-i-why-do-men-try-figure-out-t-0
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Very, very good looking girls are generally crazy.
And not worth the maintenance to prolong an ltr.
The more skin they show, the more their dim little brains start to realize it’s their bods (not minds, personality, personal warmth) that get them goodies.
Take a look at your sliding milf or declining cougar.
They, too, once were hot.
Now that a little mold has formed – all the sudden
they’re nicer.
If I had an enemy (thank jeezis, I have none)
my wish would be he marry a h-hot girl.
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I can vouch for that, in addition they have crazy eyes, maybe it’s just hamster fatigue having to be switched on all time.
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That could be. I imagine it’s likely from them not having to hamster over legitimate issues at all – having had others think for them and pull the weight.
They hamster over what miniskirt to wear and what Britnee said about Amanda saying “stuff” about Kendra. That kind of fixation on vapid thought jades anyone.
That’s why, when The Expiration Date hits – they scurry around like Unicorns trying to get on Noah’s Ark.
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Does it actually have to do with genes or does it have to do with the fact that hotter chicks are forced into 10000000x more social interactions than ugly chicks?
A dude fresh out of prison can probably recognize angry emotions in people better than a guy who sits on his computer all day.
A hot girl is forced into so many social interactions that she has to learn to read people to avoid negative consequences. She has to tell which of the 10 guys knocking on her door is legit while the uggo doesn’t.
My social calibration and ability to read people and feel the vibe of an interaction is all light-years ahead of most people. But I sharpened those skills by spending a lot of time in the field, when I started out as a computer nerd recluse I couldn’t see the things that are flashing neon lights to me now. I imagine it’s the same for hot girls as soon as they start hitting puberty and even before then in a lot of cases.
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My social calibration and ability to read people and feel the vibe of an interaction is all light-years ahead of most people. But I sharpened those skills by spending a lot of time in the field, when I started out as a computer nerd recluse I couldn’t see the things that are flashing neon lights to me now. I imagine it’s the same for hot girls as soon as they start hitting puberty and even before then in a lot of cases.
Same here. Unfortunately, I was so bad at reading social cues that just because of my history, people still tend to assume that I’m an omegavirgindork, unless they only got to know me recently.
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Ya that happens lol I lucked out in that I was moving to a new city around the time I discovered game so it was easy for me to introduce new behaviors…people in the new city didn’t know me and when I came home to visit people assumed the new city “changed me” (they still shit-tested me on my new attitude but it was just on a couple days for vacation VS daily, and by my next visit a year later they just accepted my new attitude).
If your situ is fucking up your progress here’s a CH post for ya:
https://heartiste.wordpress.com/2012/01/09/abandoning-friends-who-know-you-as-you-were/
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Thanks, I’ve seen that one but it’s worth a re-read
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Upon reading this again, it’s uncanny how closely this applies to many of the guy friends I had in my recent circle — the envy, the desire to smack me down and keep me from getting uppity, i.e., the whole “crabs in a bucket” mentality. Climbing out of betatude, it’s been FAR easier to hold on to the female friends than the male ones.
But when those friends are your own family, it gets worse. My dad told me, “Haha, there’s nobody on earth as socially inept as you are,” and a recent remark from my sister, “As usual, you are completely misinterpreting the situation.”
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Darn. Thought I was the first to reply to this, but yes. I wonder the same. Occam’s razor comes to mind, making me prefer the simpler explanation that attractive women get more training in seduction interactions and are therefore better at them.
Though when all is said, the information that prettier women are more able to see through bullshit is still pretty useful. Shame that women below your league also seem to realize that they’re just being played for a quick release.
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“Though when all is said, the information that prettier women are more able to see through bullshit is still pretty useful.”
Agreed. This is why we stress not to act different around 10s. Do exactly what you do with 7s. If you put on an “okay this is the BIG time, THIS girl is special, I’d better bust out my A-Game” persona, the girl can sniff out your inauthenticity. You were authentic and congruent with the 7s because you legit didn’t give a shit about the outcome, but with the hotter ones you start not escalating as fast or taking her on dates instead of trying to bang her in the bathroom, or not swearing, or not being as aloof, etc.
A hot girl has been surrounded her whole life by people acting how they think she’d like them to act, from guys opening doors for her while pretending not to want to fuck her, to girls being nice to her face but talking shit behind her back…to survive socially they have to learn to read that stuff because it only gets worse as they get older and men trying to fuck them and rich guys at nightclubs offering them free trips to paris and shit enters the equation.
It can be hard for nerdy socially inexperienced guys to wrap their head around the world really hot girls live in. Imagine if you knew everyone around you was lying to you 24/7 and no one would ever tell you how they really feel or what they really think of you. It would be like those movies where the main character is trapped in a Pleasantville world and trying to get answers out of people who are all in on the gag.
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But, at some point, won’t you let a girl know she is special to you somehow? Otherwise, she’ll justifiably assume you don’t care, right?
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That’s after you’ve directly ascertained the contours and depth of her cervix.
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Spot on.
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…multiple times.
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“This is why we stress not to act different around 10s.”
Agreed. The process is the same. And game is tailored for high SMV women.
At the psychoanalytic level the challenge is in controlling your emotional state triggered by a subjects high SMV. A gorgeous woman will trigger more, and more intense cock&ball tingles -> leading to higher probability of nervous/anxious emotions -> beta -> hot chic radar detects beta -> snubs you off.
Again, of course, the *only* way to ninja through the hot chic beta-radar undetected is consistent and extensive field application. Start banging lower SMV women and work your way up the ladder.
And interesting to note as one gets better with game, it’s possible to blow opportunities with lower SMV women; because you raise your value too high. With a lower SMV subject the right amount of BPG is needed or she’ll get too nervous and feel uncomfortable. Not always but it does occur.
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Interesting point, I believe it’s both:
A genetic predisposition to inherit a low WHR means that the subject will be more attractive to men. Science has validated this:
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/homo-consumericus/201002/men-s-preference-the-female-hourglass-figure
Since men are more attracted to this genetic trait over a higher WHR given a choice of the 2, than it is reasonable to conclude that the lower WHR will get more suitors attempting vaginal breach.
And the lower WHR subject gets more chances to refine her beta-tard radar.
I imagine it’s the same for hot girls as soon as they start hitting puberty and even before then in a lot of cases
Agreed.
…but we got game and we’ll ninja through that shit and ring that vagina buzzer: bing bing bing bing brring brrbrbrbrinng brbringgg
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This implies that the hardest chicks to game are hot feminists. Seems true to me.
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What are these mythical “hot feminists” you refer to?
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Nearly every girl in a big city is a femcunt of some sort. The ugly ones just get more attention because they pursue it relentlessly.
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Even if a feminist has a good body, she is immediately unattractive just by being a feminist.
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I’ve bedded some hot feminists, the key is to first make it clear that you think feminism is BS, or to at least smile,or shake your head when she is relating some serious feminist theory.
Once she realizes that you are one of those for whom feminism is transparent, she can drop the shtick, and get on with being hot and sexy…
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@editor
“These sex-based gene variants aren’t uniform; “girly” genes are found less numerously in masculine women, and “manly” genes are found less frequently in feminine men.”
This has to be approached carefully. Remember that with narrow
exceptions, we all carry a full panoply of genes. This includes
genes that are suppressed or activated by sex hormones etc.
I presumably have a full set of genes for lactation, but they
are never called upon. Etc. So even a very he-man guy could
have great genes for female girlyness, and vice versa.
@editor
“There is a general psychosocial sex dichotomy that is blurred at the edges, where the girly and manly gene clusters are not as clearly delineated. Thus you find, as this study concludes, that manjawed freaks like feminists are more likely than neotenous beauties are to fall for a player’s empty promises. ”
Many plausible explanations other than inherent smarts have been offered above. I will add that the hottie can afford to be choosy, whereas the fugly may have to accept shitty odds, or forgo the opposite sex altogether.
Thor
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Here’s something that needs to get out, so-called “slut shaming” is something women do to each other, it is not the evil patriarchy at work. And I expect there to be a lot more of it in the future. With game, men can pump and dump a succession of chicks. So women are now in a prisoner’s dilemma, they either put out, and then get dumped, or they don’t put out and men ignore them for the ones who will. Ergo, there needs to be a lot more slut shaming by women to prevent their competitors from giving it up.
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Does this mean black women are the smartest of em all? They would have the lowest ratio on the planet, just look at Beyonce.
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Not with a 70% obesity rate.
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Many lean black women still have absurdly low WHR.
Yum!
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True. I suspect a large (hah) reason why black men marry white women at a 3:1 ratio of WM/BF is because of black female obesity. White men usually find fat women gross, while black men seem to be more likely to be chubby chasers. Hence, a lot of fat white women sleep with black men. And yes, the stats do show that among white women, it’s the fatties who are most likely to get jungle fever:
http://racehist.blogspot.com/2009/04/more-data-on-racial-mixing.html
Black men are more likely to have intrinsically alpha behavior than white men, at least nowadays, so the 3:1 gap would narrow, but likely not vanish. Nevertheless, in every case I have seen of WM/BF, the black woman had a reasonable weight.
This also undoubtedly explains why Hispanic men are slightly more likely to be with white women than the reverse (Hispanic women with white men). Hispanic female obesity is almost as bad as blacks’. If Hispanic women weren’t so freaking fat, I’m sure WM/HF would be more common than HM/WF.
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I have my doubts. Correlation between an attractive hip-to-waist ratio and an improved ability in cutting through dating bullshit might be caused by any factor of things.
There’s no need to bring evo psych in the mix, as attractive women will in general get more attention and therefore more training in courtship. And knowing their value, they will be more apt to play games and recognize them than a HB6 whom is struggling to find a good match, as much as I despise the rating system.
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There’s no not bringing “evo psych into the mix.” It’s just a tic. Learn to ignore it. There will be no budging from this particular sophistry here.
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It’s probably a nurture-nature combo. Hot girls get hit on more, so they get more experienced at sniffing out bullshit. They may also have more estrogenated brains and be better at empathy.
Problem is, then alphas with their more masculine brains should be *worse* at reading people…when we know the reverse is the case.
Thing is, at some point you have to expand your model, since nerds have neither the masculine strengths of the alpha nor the feminine strengths of empathy and reading people. You actually have a three-part scheme with manly men, womanly women, and nerds. Who aren’t much use in the mating arena, though try supporting an advanced civilization without us. 😉
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http://www.bakadesuyo.com/how-can-you-get-others-to-convince-themselves
http://www.bakadesuyo.com/do-guys-who-are-night-owls-or-morning-larks-h
http://www.bakadesuyo.com/is-there-really-such-thing-a-g-spot
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Attractive females have at least the possibility of being sane. I mean, seeing things as they are is not necessarily an intolerable insult to their self-image. They are really hot, afterall. That can be accepted straight-up; as long as its true…
OTOH, for all fatties; the opposite is true. Grasping the truth = God hates you.
If God hates you, how long will sanity maintain???
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Proof enough of this theory is that “look” hotter chicks give you when you come up spittin. That look that says “o yeah what do you think you got that I haven’t seen before”. Then you demolish that but that’s neither here nor there. The main point is, being hotter they screen harder and can smell bullshit a mile away because they’ve seen a lot.
That being said, due to said higher screening capacities and the inability of most men to climb that hurdle, they are way more likely to become attached and/or crazy, at least from my experience
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if you want hot woman you can just buy them it really isn’t a big deal.
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Would this conclusion hold true for a home schooled hot chick raised in the boonies?
How much of this is controlled for setting? How much of this conclusion can be chalked up to the fact that a good looking woman has been dealing with men’s advances and female envy more often, and earlier, than an ugly or socially isolated peer?
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Good point. Probably the most desirable woman in the world is a naive hottie from the boonies. I see them here in LA a lot, usually actresses or singers. Watching them in clubs was like watching Bambi in a lion’s den. Easy pickins. In the worst instances, they also become murder cases, unfortunately.
Also, don’t forget the power of siblings. This is generalizing, but girls who grow up with a lot of brothers tend to be less aware of their femininity, or take a dimmer view of it. They also tend to understand game more, having grown up seeing the other side, so they naturally play along better.
In fact, the worst relationships I’ve ever had have been with girls who had either one or two sisters, and no brothers. Their estrogen levels were through the roof, and I don’t think it was coincidence.
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Please CH, unleash the dogs of game logic on this:
http://dearwendy.com/where-are-all-the-strong-confident-men/
A 54 year-old harpie bitching about only attracting lower betas and omegas. She ought to be on her knees thanking any man that will put up with her long enough to throw her a bone. She wants an alpha but what alpha would be willing to deal with her shit (or make time for a feminist who long ago hit-the-wall)?
Also, there is an impressive amount of hamster-spinning in the second question.
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Self-delusion–it’s as old as Adam and Eve…
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UTSA Study Finds Ovulating Women Perceive Sexy Cads as Good Dads
http://business.utsa.edu/news/2012/UTSAstudy.aspx
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CH – curious as to whether we are going to see any commentary on this David DeAngelo business…
justified criticism, or pure envy at his Internet success, what say you
ROOSH V —
Twitter Updates
David D and his new wife will teach you how to take your relationship to the next level via seminar for only $997. #
PUA FRAUD website:
http://www.puafraud.com/david-deangelo-aka-eben-pagan-loses-his-balls-admits-to-only-two-relationships-in-his-life/
“So here is a bit from his wedding registry
“Soon after, Eben gathered his tribe in yet another circle, placing 3 women at the front of the room: his ex-girlfriend Rose, myself and his friend Shannon.” Rose was the only other serious romance he’d ever had.
(Note from RJ: What the fuck? He’s pushing 40 and he’s really only had ONE girlfriend prior to his wife? And this guy has been teaching men about women? Do you think that maybe there is something WRONG with him? Nahh)
“He kneeled before her and began to recount all the hard-won lessons learned from their relationship. He thanked her for being his teacher, for enduring the drama, and for preparing him so perfectly for me. Then, body to the ground, he bowed to her in reverence.”
Holy tard! The guy who taught about killing your “inner wussy” is BOWING before his ex-gf, his BODY TO THE GROUND? Talk about over-doing it and chewing the scenery. This is the kind of a thing a narcissist who is incapable of expressing or feeling authentic emotion would do: substitute in theatre and a grand gesture that calls attention to himself.
If you’ve ever bought a single one of his crap “Double Your Masturbating” products I suggest NOW is the time to set fire to it in a flash mob rally and put the whole thing up on Youtube.
Fuck….just fuck.
DeAnushole, you are a socio-path on a grand scale, so I can only assume all of this ceremonial will make for good fodder when you and your greyhound-skinny wife go on talk shows plugging your new relationship mastery seminars and making love happen bootcamps.
BLARF!
I just threw up in my soul.
I liked you better when you were a scheming, back-stabbing, boring-as-bat shit, read-from-the-notes huckster.
Peace, piece and god, I’m going to go be sick again.
RJ
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You da man ROSS! says:
October 5, 2011 at 6:34 pm
Ross, I always give you props but I think this just unfair! David D has been a valuable teacher to many, (including me) and while you da man Ross….David D is cool too.
I think it’s rad he found a hot chicks who he loves. Why you saying he scammed peeps? WHERE’S THE LOVE RJ????
Reply
Ross Jeffries says:
October 5, 2011 at 6:52 pm
@You da
No, he hasn’t. He’s taught misinformation, bullshit and he’s deceived people on a vast scale.
And “found love”? Read closely…is it love or theatre and a set up for his next marketing scam?
Mark my words: within 6 months he and his wifey will be doing workshops and bootcamps presenting themselves as experts and charging a shit load of monies.
RJ
Reply
[heartiste: i’ve used some DYD cocky/funny lines to good effect. and i didn’t pay a red cent for the info. i agree that anyone who pays deangelo $1K for an LTR bootcamp (whatever the hell that is) run by him and his wife is a dupe, but that doesn’t mean his pickup tactics aren’t useful. his wife, btw, is decent looking. not a supermodel, but not bad either. maybe not every man’s taste, but she has the sort of exotic look that i could see some guys really going for. plus, maybe he and her connect on a temperamental level that he hasn’t felt with other women. at the very least, she’s not overweight. that goes a long way in this day and age.]
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RJ is the equivalent of the crazy old homeless guy yelling shit on a street corner. He’s been doing it for like 10+ years. You can pretty much ignore him.
DavidD did more for pickup than pretty much anyone else back in the day except for Mystery. A lot of his stuff is out-dated now but the concepts he taught are still solid even if the actual routines are weak.
Most boxing trainers aren’t UFC looking ninjas who can still jump in the ring for 10 rounds. Doesn’t mean their knowledge is worthless. Don’t care who DavidD marries or if he takes it up the bum from RJ these days, the stuff he did back in the day was and still is solid.
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Re: Thucydides. That passage reminds me of how cromulent this is with insane lefties, see RATM “The party blessed me with its future…And I protect it with fire.”
I guess Obama has made that the loyalty mainstream as he loots our country.
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this study is bs. the study authors make sweeping generalizations based on a small sample size using mood-dependent and easily misinterpreted questionnaires and a matching face game, which oversimplifies complex human social interaction.
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I was just watching an interesting program talking about how important cooking with fire really was to human evolution. Basically it allows us to get a huge percent more of energy from food and allows us to have a smaller stomach (which in turn can make us more capable in persistence hunting). So womens’ big hips, small waist, big chest might not be about being able to safely give birth, but rather about emphasizing how small a womans stomach is.
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Doubt it’s as embedded as generations of ancestors…perhaps as simple as hot girls learning from experience. The hotter and more ‘alpha’ experience a girl has, the lower threshold she has for bullshit.
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This is probably down to the General Fitness Effect. Positive human traits tend to be correlated; someone who is tall/attractive/sociable/smart/healthy is likely to have at least three of those five qualities. Hot women are healthier and more attractive, so the general fitness effect would indicate that they’d most likely be smarter too.
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[…] “Easy vs. Hard“, “I’m Banging Your Soulmate”Heartiste – “Hot Women Are Harder to Fool“, “How Much Do Your Smarts Matter to Women?“, “Women Are Equally as Shallow […]
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This could be a big topic on this blog. A man has had 30 babies with 11 baby mamas in TN. It doesn’t matter that he is black. He is alpha. But he can’t afford child support for most of the 30 children.
http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-tennessee-man-has-30-kids-20120518,0,4036567.story
and
http://wreg.com/2012/05/16/tn-man-fathers-30-kids-but-cant-support-any/
Now look at the comments. That’s right. The socalled “conservatives” never once look at things from the point of view of men’s rights, the idea that a man shouldn’t be forced by the state to pay child support because women should be calculating their lovers’ ability to pay and stick around before spreading them plus baby mammas can find betas or their parents and relatives to help raise children.
The “conservatives” are so deep into socalled “personal responsibility” of the MAN ONLY that they are calling for forced sterilization for the guy (big government if there ever was any).
Never once in the comments do you see a remark that the sluts should be sterilized.
Never once do these white knighting “conservative” commenters who seem to outnumber CH readers 10 million to 1, think of the need for the state to “punish” the women. No, on that issue they’d go back to being good small government laissez faire types.
Also, by making racism relevant in this issue, these “conservatives” are condemning all white alphas to whatever new child support laws result from this and other stories.
It was stories like this 30 years ago that got us the current child support laws.
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[…] Hot Women Are Harder To Fool (heartiste.wordpress.com) […]
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