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Chateau Heartiste

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Automation And Redundant Humans

June 13, 2012 by CH

There’s a lot of chatter from the internetsia and on various econ-centric and forward-looking culture blogs (i.e. mediums hosting most of the interesting ideas you won’t ever hear discussed in the increasingly self-discrediting MSM) that automation and computerization are leading to impressive productivity gains, mostly concentrated among the high IQ elite knowledge workers who feign disbelief in the relevance of IQ (and other inheritable personality traits that are useful in a high-tech, interwoven economy, like conscientiousness). The thinking goes, and trend line evidence supports the notion, that vast swaths of humans will be left unemployable by their inability to grasp the language of abstraction. Unemployment rates that dwarf Great Depression numbers could soon be the norm.

Pursuing this line of thought, these Cassandras theorize that the end result of a bifurcating economy into machine overseers and redundant humans meant only to consume the products produced by the machines and their management consultant handlers will be huge wealth residing in the hands of a few, while pittances will drop like bread crumbs from welfare-issuance offices upon the benighted masses.

I happen to believe, based on the growing dysfunction I see organically emerging in my estranged country, that the theory has merit.

So I have two questions for any economists reading:

1. How is the present automation and productivity conundrum qualitatively different than ones from the past (for example, the classic case of the auto replacing the horse and carriage)? If you do not believe it is qualitatively different, explain how we escape the “zero marginal productivity” worker trap, especially in an era when human capital is shrinking due to a combination of dysgenic birth rate differentials and mass migration of unskilled poor? Note: “Humans are fungible” is not an acceptable cop-out.

2. If, say, most of the profits go to the top 10% in society, while the bottom 90% are unemployed or marginally employed, how is it exactly that those top 10% will be able to extract profits from a customer base that doesn’t have the income stream to afford more than the basic necessities?

There must be some self-regulating rebalancing dynamic that comes into play past a certain egregious level of wealth and employment inequality. I figure this rebalancing will happen in one of two ways: One, the government will step up redistribution (virtually guaranteeing a livable “income” for the left side of the bell curve). This option, naturally, confronts a bit more difficulty in a multiethnic society. Two, the profit geyser will dry up as the world comes to be increasingly dominated by a few elite essentially bartering amongst themselves. What good are productivity gains if no one is left with the cash to buy your products?

There is a third, albeit unlikely, outcome: goods will be able to be manufactured and distributed so cheaply that no more than a meager income stream will be needed to adorn one’s lifestyle with a slew of creature comforts.

Of course, riot-quelling Danegeld or sufficiently inexpensive goods say nothing about the devastation to the human psyche that would occur in a world of relegated uselessness. Unlimited consuming has a way of eating itself to death.

Please, spare me the singularity crackpottery. That, or genetic reengineering, won’t happen in time, if it happens at all, to stave off mass calamity.

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Posted in Culture, Globalization, Goodbye America, Ugly Truths | 175 Comments

175 Responses

  1. on June 13, 2012 at 1:27 pm Aleph One

    I don’t have an answer, but I hope that a 21st Century Henry Ford will come along to provide one.

    Henry Ford is widely recognized for reducing the cost of building an automobile to the point where a middle-class family could afford to buy it. It’s less widely known that he simultaneously created a large number of middle-class families. His assembly line and his machines increased the productivity of workers so much that he could hire machinists who had been earning fifty cents a day and pay them five dollars a day.

    Perhaps we can make the machines smart enough that they can be tended by idiots, who can be paid enough to afford to buy the items produced by the machines?

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    • on June 13, 2012 at 6:14 pm Firepower

      Hey no0b. You took AB dada’s place – he wants it back.

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    • on June 13, 2012 at 9:13 pm Anonymous

      That may have happened then. But the general trend (as I see it) is of corporations continuously thinking about the bottom line. If a modern day henry ford comes and employs low-skill workers, he may pay a decent wage for a time. But inevitably wages go down, or don’t keep up with inflation. And so we end up in the same place we are now.

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    • on June 17, 2012 at 8:35 am smash@mouth.com

      Slavery or the cotton-gin. Take your pick.

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  2. on June 13, 2012 at 1:55 pm beta_plus

    A lot of the problems with falling incomes have more to do with government mandated inflation of housing, education, and health care prices than income disparities – the three goods over which solipsistic hypergamic females obsess. Maybe your dystopia is the inevitable conclusion, but the means to possibly prevent it or at least mitigate it are severely hampered by modern feminism.

    *while the last two are intuitive, I’ve always wondered why women obsess over creating housing bubbles so much

    [heartiste: it’s hypergamy extended to choice of neighbors.]

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  3. on June 13, 2012 at 2:00 pm jodark

    If you create a consumption society, you must closely tie production to consumption. The further you divorce the two, the greater issues will arise. If the IQ elites can find a way to keep that link, while increasing production via machines then the society will be tenable.

    But do you really expect the current system to last long enough for us to get to that point?
    Technology keeps advancing but human nature hasn’t changed observably in recorded history. It has a habit of cannibalizing a civilization after it peaks.

    Short-term: The Barbarian hordes are already within out borders and cities.
    Hedge with AR15s, PMAGs and strippered ammo by the palate.

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    • on June 13, 2012 at 7:00 pm bob

      strippered ammo by the palate.

      Ouch. I’m sure that using pallets would be more comfortable.

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      • on June 14, 2012 at 8:28 am jodark

        That’s a derp. No excuses.

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  4. on June 13, 2012 at 2:03 pm your sisters panties

    In regards to #2, they are already extracting the monies via force, your tax dollars being redistributed amongst bankers and war mongers to put it in plain terms.

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  5. on June 13, 2012 at 2:05 pm Tomek77

    How about looking at it from a different perspective: aren’t we witnessing the second stage of globalization: after manufacturing jobs, it is knowledge jobs that are going off-shore. The first stage was made possible by cheap transportation, the second by cheap communication (ie. the internet).

    I run a business, and yet all my mind-numbing work is delegated to foreign contractors. Everything from answering the phone, to reading e-mails, to accounting, translation, copy-writing etc…

    People don’t seem to realize that everything from answering the phone, to doing para-legal work or accounting or data entry can and WILL BE outsourced.

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    • on June 13, 2012 at 3:04 pm corvinus

      To a point. Outsourcing does have the effect of leveling the economy of the USA with India, but not all the way, since the logistics of having Indians do everything rather than Americans who are actually there in the flesh (and who usually do a better job) will outweigh the Indians’ lower cost. I already have read about instances of reverse outsourcing, where companies switch to using American call centers because of customer complaints about the Indians.

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      • on June 13, 2012 at 3:51 pm Tomek77

        Those stories you read are just “feel-good” bs to give the populace the warm and fuzzy feeling. Don’t read too much into it.

        Some recent examples I’ve seen:
        – my doctor speaks into a microphone to take his notes, so that some guy in India can type what he says, in real-time
        – (some) McDonalds drive-through windows are operated by oversea contractors (not the kids working inside)
        – My own e-mail is being read and sorted, and even replied to by a foreign personal assistant I have never met

        My point is: “the world is flat”, and too many people haven’t noticed yet.
        Tom Friedman describes this better than I can do in a single comment:
        http://video.mit.edu/watch/the-world-is-flat-9145/

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      • on June 13, 2012 at 3:53 pm Tomek77

        By drive-through window, I meant the foreign contractors are listening to the microphone of the drive-through and entering the order in real-time into the McDonald’s computer system.

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      • on June 13, 2012 at 5:10 pm blert

        That makes zero sense: the idiot at the window must still be paid for and all that is required is picture poking.

        The time lag to and fro from India is too much.

        Such lags are an irritant even posting to this blog.

        Tom Friedman made a small fortune — from a billion dollars. His advice/ insight is trite.

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      • on June 17, 2012 at 10:15 pm Boo

        It makes sense to McDonalds. Mostly by having two ordering lanes (stupid people ordering takes more time than taking money or giving out big macs. Also, if they can have 200 Indians taking orders at 300 locations, they’ve saved not only the labor of 300 americans, but 100 Indians as well.

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  6. on June 13, 2012 at 2:07 pm Dan Fletcher

    Too many risks lay on the path ahead. It is time to start establishing colonies throughout the solar system less we risk the extinction of mankind.

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    • on June 13, 2012 at 2:11 pm Stark

      How much do you think a single colony will cost to establish?
      How will you bring in resources from the earth?

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      • on June 13, 2012 at 9:29 pm Aslan's Father

        Pack the poor into generation ships, give them seeds, livestock and farming equipment and let them fend for themselves. Australia’s doing alright.

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  7. on June 13, 2012 at 2:09 pm PA

    Amoral eugenics have always been a cornerstone of the Left. And in a way they still are. See Planned Parenthood. If you’re in DC, you will notice that shadow-government-like platoons of nice young white volunteers in blue T-shirts, along with a nontrivial number of black girls, stake out high pedestrian traffic areas like latter-day missionaries. So a fourth possibiity is an effectively marketed mass birth control of “surplus humans.” It’s not implausible.

    When George W. Bush was elected, one of the first, if not THE first one of his acts as president was to defund abortion in what’s known euphemistically as the developing world. The Left howled. They do not make abortion (and related services) a non-negiotiable demand because they actually believe in women’s rights. The left’s id monster is bigger than that.

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  8. on June 13, 2012 at 2:18 pm anon

    “Please, spare me the singularity crackpottery.”

    Couldn’t someone classify this whole post as singularity crackpottery? Your “spare me” statement is like saying “Please accept that progress will be made in automation, but not in other areas.”

    Surely, progress will be made in SOME other areas, right?

    That’s not really my answer to your questions. My answer is that, from the point of view of a person from a century ago, we’re basically already there. The amount of time people spend actually working is way down from a century ago. A large section of our population may never do actual productive work.

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    • on June 13, 2012 at 3:04 pm Dan Fletcher

      Bro, I don’t think you know what a singularity is.

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      • on June 14, 2012 at 11:26 am Man in Miskesona

        I was an early contributor to that Wikipedia article. I know what a “singularity” is.

        My point remains: the notion of automation advancing to the point that humans become redundant is *already* part of singularity thinking. I suggest that it might be unreasonable for Heartiste to cherry-pick which singularity technologies he wants us to include in our response, when he’s already in singularity territory.

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  9. on June 13, 2012 at 2:20 pm Man in Miskesona

    whoops..

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  10. on June 13, 2012 at 2:23 pm Stuki

    1. It isn’t. As always, and to the chagrin of progressives everywhere, things are not different this time, either.

    2. Obviously, they won’t. People’s wealth and incomes fall along a continuum. It can be flatter or steeper, but there’s no stair step at the 10/90, nor any other, divide. In other words, there are no “us” and “them” existing independently of those making arbitrary categorizations for the purpose of writing sciency sounding papers. Those with status, will fight tooth and nail to prevent others from overtaking them. Either by creating/stealing more for themselves, or by inventing roadblocks preventing others from doing such. The world’s richest man is not magically the ally of the second richest, aligned against some army of destitutes.

    Rather than attempting to discern the future by looking at temporary cultural trends, simply look at the availability of military technology. If that moves in the direction of centralized power by the few, then that’s what we will have. If it instead evens peoples capabilities, then things will become more even. As of now, it’s hard to say where things are going. We’re coming off a century of massive rewards going to those with the big bombers, but over the last few decades things look to have turned a bit. But, at the same time, stuff like drones may tilt things back in the direction of concentrated power again. But then, the end of cheap fossil fuels makes long distance power projection harder……Who knows.

    In the long term, power WILL be more evenly distributed. Simply because any level of military tech does get cheaper/easier to procure over time. While on a finite earth, the level required to simply destroy there is, is not changing much. So, at some point, some destitute have nothing will obtain WMDs in quantities and qualities sufficient to stir things up for anyone attempting to sit on any outlandish wealth and power pile.

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  11. on June 13, 2012 at 2:30 pm Whitehall

    Simple supply and demand will resolve this.

    With an increased supply of labor, people will find services to offer that material goods or computer automation can not duplicate or compete with. Judges and lawyers, prostitutes (ignoring sexbots), marriage counseling. tax accountants, professional sports, bartenders, etc.

    We’re seeing this trend as gross value of manufacturing is up in the US but manufacturing employment is down yet the “service economy” rolls along.

    We’ll just invent more, better, or more specialized services to offer.

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    • on June 13, 2012 at 9:25 pm Anonymous

      The thesis here is that the “service economy” is requiring higher levels of IQ over time. Such that a large sector of the population will someday be unable to compete with the automation made possible by computers.

      There are only so many jobs for clerks, cashiers, waitresses and circus freaks.

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      • on June 15, 2012 at 5:36 pm Whitehall

        As long as women are hypergamous, rewards for creating a service job that pays more than the dole will be sought by men.

        Women inspire and motivate achievement by men.

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  12. on June 13, 2012 at 2:31 pm Island

    1. zero mp doesn”t exist. look thru the data.

    2. 90% unemployment? are you assuming that they are just going to spend until they can’t. this will never happen. you’re also assuming a growth economy over the next hundred years. not happening

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  13. on June 13, 2012 at 2:32 pm T

    GMI – Guaranteed Minimum Income

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  14. on June 13, 2012 at 2:47 pm Herzog

    “There is a third, albeit unlikely, outcome: goods will be able to be manufactured and distributed so cheaply that no more than a meager income stream will be needed to adorn one’s lifestyle with a slew of creature comforts.”

    If you compare the life of the average person in a developed country to the same person 100 years ago you might say this has already happened. Even America’s “poor” people who cry about income inequality will blow their meager paycheck on the latest Apple product.

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  15. on June 13, 2012 at 2:56 pm Southern Man

    Number two is easy to dismiss: your premise that the poor can only afford necessities is false; even the poor have disposable income. And pretty much all over the world every generation is better off then the one that came before (yes, even in sub-Saharan Africa). The USA is an extreme example, where a family of four on the “poverty line”lives in a constructed home with plumbing and bathrooms and a kitchen with refrigerator and cooktop and as often as not a private sleeping room for every member of the family. Not to mention cable TV and private automobiles and cell phones (my sister, a DHS case worker, once commented that every single person in her caseload of sixty or so had a smartphone). To be poor in the USA is equivalent to middle class in Europe and living like a king most everywhere else. That disposable income gets spent on stuff that the top ten percent provide: cigarettes, potato chips, 99-cent iPhone game upgrades, eBooks, whatever. The real beauty of the modern globally economy is that pretty much anyone with talent and willpower can become a direct provider (instead of just a consumer) by writing a game or an eBook and put it on the market. My CS students do it all the time; most of them have an app or two out that generates at least a little residual income. And residual income is a powerful tool for funding your lifestyle; just ask Roosh, who plugged away at it until Bang went viral. Sure, there will always be those who only consume. And there will always be a top ten percent that pays their way through government taxation and redistribution. But the future is bright for anyone with a marketable idea and the willpower to make it happen.

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    • on June 14, 2012 at 11:31 am Ripp

      “But the future is bright for anyone with a marketable idea and the willpower to make it happen.”

      Agreed. And will always be so.

      [heartiste: yes, but creativity and willpower are likely largely heritable, and probably along population group levels as well. which brings us back to the original point of the post. still not satisfied with the answers i’m seeing in the comments.]

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      • on June 17, 2012 at 10:25 pm Boo

        [heartiste: yes, but creativity and willpower are likely largely heritable, and probably along population group levels as well. which brings us back to the original point of the post. still not satisfied with the answers i’m seeing in the comments.]

        But if the smart girls with willpower and creativity still continue to slut it up with Chris Brown, and the smart, creative will powered guys still want to bang hot chicks from the wrong side of the tracks, won’t this cause a lot of churn in the actual families making up the top 10%??

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  16. on June 13, 2012 at 2:56 pm Firepower

    As I’ve written it down.
    America DOESN’T make many goods anymore.

    Today’s High Flying Engineer and ALL
    STEM types
    will one day, find THEIR jobs outsourced to India or China.

    Blueprints drafted in New Delhi
    sent to NYC by a mouse click.

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  17. on June 13, 2012 at 2:59 pm Addie

    1) Lower skilled workers do not have ZMP. From a notable economist:

    Even the lowest-skilled worker is capable of producing something of value. And the value of using that low-skilled worker to produce that something, rather than using some other means (i.e., a higher-skilled worker or a machine) to produce that something, rises the greater is the comparative advantage of those other means at producing something else.

    Suppose that yesterday producing 1 fish cost Suzie 1/2 banana and cost Billy 1 banana, and producing 1 banana cost Suzie 2 fish and cost Billy 1 fish. Billy has a comparative advantage over Suzie at producing bananas (and Suzie over Billy at fishing). Now suppose that today – after earning her PhD in fishing – Suzie’s fishing productivity rises significantly so that now each banana, were she to produce one, would cost her 100 fish. (Suzie is now so good at producing fish – she can produce so many of them (say) per hour – that for her now to spend any time producing bananas would oblige her to sacrifice a much larger quantity of fish than she would have sacrificed before earning her doctorate in fishing.)

    Even though Joe experiences no increase in his own productivity as a banana-grower (or, for that matter, as a fisherman), his comparative advantage over Suzie at producing bananas skyrockets.

    Yesterday Joe could produce a banana at 1/2 of Suzie’s cost of producing a banana; today Joe can produce a banana at 1/100th of Suzie’s cost of producing a banana. The dramatic decrease in Joe’s cost of producing bananas relative to Suzie’s cost of producing bananas is the exclusive result of the dramatic increase in Suzie’s productivity at fishing.

    At least in principle, then, the maximum number of fish that Dr. Suzie is willing to offer to Joe today (100) for each of his bananas is larger than it was yesterday (2).

    In short, Joe has become comparatively more productive at bananaering as a result of Suzie becoming more productive at fishing.

    Doesn’t this fact suggest that, at least potentially, the value of Joe’s marginal product rises as a result of Suzie adding greatly to her human capital?

    ……

    Is it really plausible that we are today producing – or that we will soon produce – machines in such quantities and with such a range of capacities that there is literally nothing that a low-skilled worker can produce of value for other human beings that cannot be supplied by such machines at a lower cost to these other human beings?

    2) You’re confusing wealth with money. Money is paper. Wealth is buying power. See here: http://triblive.com/opinion/1985059-74/money-wealth-economic-poor-richer-economics-nations-senses-aid-american

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    • on June 13, 2012 at 3:04 pm Konkvistador

      Imagine living in a world where you can duplicate that ultra-productive worker for zero cost.

      Instead of him having to rely on the low skilled worker, he can pick the high skilled copy of himself.

      But that’s absurd! You’d have to have something you can duplicate at the press of a button!

      Like say software.

      Software and the automation it enables are currently eating the economy.

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      • on June 13, 2012 at 9:41 pm Simon Corso

        Welcome to the Brave New World.

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  18. on June 13, 2012 at 2:59 pm Johnny Hammersticks

    Depends on whether technology and human creativity continue to create more jobs than they eliminate (as Whitehall argues). They always have in the past (hence why we call the technophobe argument the Luddite Fallacy), but past results are no guarantee of future performance. If technology’s ability to replace labor increases at an accelerating pace, and also begins to outpace humans’ creative abilities, then this seems pretty much inevitable. Add in the fact that vast numbers of people will not be smart or educated enough to do the narrowing band of jobs that machines can’t do, and the outcome seems pretty clear. The only two paths I see are increasing wealth redistribution (to ensure adequate purchasing power across the nonproductive classes), or serious demand-side headwinds that could lead to a total economic implosion. Personally, I think this jobless recovery is the first sign. But I’m not an economist, and I havent seen any really good empircal work on this issue.

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  19. on June 13, 2012 at 3:07 pm Anonymous

    Capitalism is always raising the bar; technological progress begets greater production, greater efficiency, and greater performance (broadly speaking).

    But that bar also raises the intellectual standard to which men must adhere themselves. Ayn Rand made the point in Atlas Shrugged; to paraphrase, “If you worked as a 15th century blacksmith, all you could produce in a week of muscular labor is one steel bar. Now, how much do you produce in a day working for Hank Rearden? The standard of living of that 15th century blacksmith is all that your muscles are worth; the rest is a gift from Hank Rearden.”

    [heartiste: and therein lies the problem. genetics limits the degree of intellectual standard raising that a large bulk of humanity can realistically attain.

    btw, for those who mention comparative advantage… i’m familiar with the concept, but every time i read an argument resorting to it (typically made by libertarians), i can’t help but notice how assiduously the arguer ignores externalities. is the comparative advantage enjoyed by that low-skilled, low IQ banana producer going to pay for the extra services he uses? for the extra crime he commits? for the extra stress he engenders by his annoying cultural habits he’s carried over?

    if the pace of automation outstrips the ability of declining human capital to creatively utilize new opportunities, then we are looking straight down the barrel of one motherfucking huge demand-side implosion. if that happens, it’ll get uglier than anyone can imagine.]

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    • on June 13, 2012 at 3:40 pm anon

      Let’s just forget the future and look at what and where we are now. You have vast swaths of America’s most important resource, diversity, being carefully maintained with innumerable government programs to ensure that they breed, eat, abort, and most importantly vote, no matter how worthless or pathetic their lives are. Think: the wire.
      Of course, these people have no impact on anyone else in the country, as long as they don’t murder any tourists. well, their inflated vote counts hurt the country, but aside from that, what do they do?
      But for the rest of us, options 1 and 2 are the stuff of science fiction writers. Human productivity in things that machines can’t do will have to improve for one. For another, as our current president has made clear, the most important thing in a vibrant economy is government oversight and police state protects, particularly firefighters. Indeed, as we’ve all seen with the widespread fires gripping the country, as the country burns in flames, there’s a big need to have more and more people paid by the government to sit around and wait for the moment to act. Or, with teachers, to babysit kids by reading questions from books.
      Seriously, I doubt we’re going to outlaw steamshovels and start digging with teaspoons, so it’s riot danegeld where you have 1 worker with 15 supervisors.

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    • on June 13, 2012 at 6:30 pm not_PC

      Heartiste, how do you see the future working out, assuming we continue down this track?

      [heartiste: darkness. then light.]

      As in, what do you see people do day-to-day?

      [make work. government will grow to an insatiable monstrosity to “hire” all the unemployable. the elite will complete their stratification into a totally separate cognitively blessed species. yes, species. i really think we may see the emergence of distinct human races beyond what we have now. besides superfluous gov’t contractors, i see people working 30 or even 20 hour weeks, getting much of their basic needs met on lower incomes, but struggling more than ever to afford the nicer things in life, which the elite will horde by default. family sizes among the k-selected human races will decrease, to the point of extinction. human contact jobs will grow, as will the arts, and anything that a computer algorithm or robot cannot conceivably perform in the next 100 years. survivalist businesses will profit. psych field will explode. as will caretakers for the old. peak oil is the wildcard. if energy alternatives can’t compensate, we may be in for a brutal reckoning.]

      And, given the options that you would have, how would you survive?

      [save as much as i can now, so i can weather the disaster coming. consider self-employment. i would think seriously about buying cheap rural land and having an escape home and a plot of farmable soil in case urban implosion becomes reality.]

      I’ve always been curious of your answers to these questions.

      [i hope i’m wrong. but the winds, they are a’blowin…]

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      • on June 14, 2012 at 4:29 pm Tyrone

        And some folks say I buy guns because I have a little dick. I look forward to them begging me to take their wives as sex slaves so they can be a serf on my property.

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      • on June 15, 2012 at 1:39 am Mr. Pointyface

        Wow– It’s “hoard”– to store in anticipation of scarcity– in case the Mongol “hordes” invade; increasing the number of self-styled visionaries who can’t spell.

        As someone who’s old; one thing anxious, think-too-much youngsters believe is that circumstances around them, like they themselves, are special, and their lives are taking place against an epic background against which their efforts will seem epic.

        It’s not usually true. In the 60’s I howled about how the end was near because iron ore was far less rich than 100 years before. They figured out recycling. Big deal.

        What’s DEFINITELY going to happen, barring the wild outlier like WW2 if you were in Poland, or the US Civil War if you were in the South, is you’ll get used to a lot more Mexicans being around ( they’re quite benevolent invaders and the chicks are hot until they enlarge.), face the fact the upper class hasn’t and won’t invite you in cause they kind of want to keep their money and slim white chicks to themselves, and you’re going to get old and boring.

        And then die.

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    • on June 13, 2012 at 8:42 pm Listener

      You’ve hit on something important — people must be made to pay for their externalities. Right now, it is illegal to refuse service to someone bringing “annoying cultural habits” and other, more serious corrosives into one’s business or apartment complex. Fleabitten trainwrecks are today allowed to stride down 5th Avenue, carrying on loud, schizophrenic conversations, weighing down the whole neighborhood. This is indeed not sustainable. The future will be Hoppean (Hans-Hermann Hoppe) or not at all.

      Property rights must mean something. The future will be a patchwork of gated communities. To enter a certain part of a certain city, one will have to, say, wear a blazer and a hat (as it is now in finer restaurants, which have thankfully been left alone by the Justice Department). One will be expelled for doing X or Y. Discrimination of the best sort, the enforcement of standards, will be the new order. Those who can’t keep up will be consigned to shanty towns and will (the most incapable of them) starve. But humanity will still advance.

      This is a liferaft model, but it is, I believe, a just model.

      Property rights are the key. Today, it feels like the stakes are all-or-nothing, that we’re all in the same boat, but that has everything to do with our state-enforced integration of everybody with everybody, which cannot last.

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      • on June 14, 2012 at 12:33 pm Anonymous

        Great comment. But I’m curious as to why exactly you think stAte sponsored forced integration cannot work?

        [heartiste: has any state sponsored project that ignores the force of human nature ever worked?]

        I’d say that the average latte liberal in these upper class places you mention WANT the diverse “annoying cultural habits” for status reasons

        [correction: they *say* they want that vibrancy, but their actions speak otherwise.]

        I only see upper class Jewish Americans balking at this, in places such as Manhattan

        [jews are the most vociferous and headstrong sermonizers of multicult. but plenty of leftie high church gentiles have their minds dirty as well.]

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  20. on June 13, 2012 at 3:14 pm corvinus

    1. How is the present automation and productivity conundrum qualitatively different than ones from the past (for example, the classic case of the auto replacing the horse and carriage)? If you do not believe it is qualitatively different, explain how we escape the “zero marginal productivity” worker trap, especially in an era when human capital is shrinking due to a combination of dysgenic birth rate differentials and mass migration of unskilled poor? Note: “Humans are fungible” is not an acceptable cop-out.

    Simple. Computers are stupid. They can do many things, but need almost constant maintenance. If a human being isn’t watching them at all times, they tend to make the most gawdawful mistakes. Humans have creativity and other valuable traits that computers not only don’t have now, but will likely never have.

    2. If, say, most of the profits go to the top 10% in society, while the bottom 90% are unemployed or marginally employed, how is it exactly that those top 10% will be able to extract profits from a customer base that doesn’t have the income stream to afford more than the basic necessities?

    I think such a Latin American-style Gini coefficient has been the norm throughout human history. It’s the Scandinavian-style coefficient that’s the fluke.

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    • on June 13, 2012 at 9:40 pm Anonymous

      A hypothetical piece of software can automate 100 human jobs. You might need 10 programmers to intermittently update and maintain the system. You now have 90 aspiring artists competing for a service job.

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      • on June 16, 2012 at 1:53 pm Abelard Lindsey

        Sounds like Portland today.

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  21. on June 13, 2012 at 3:16 pm Anonymous

    What you all evade is the fact that the achievements of your betters do not automatically lift you up to their intellectual level. But the man at the bottom benefits far, far more from the man at the top than vice versa; the poorest laborer receives the greatest (unearned) benefit from the production, efficiency and innovation of the man at the top.

    You don’t believe me? You buy into this Marxist class warfare bullshit? AS IF. As if I could exploit you IF I WANTED TO. That’s what the losers who whine about “exploitation” do not get (or choose to evade); if they were worth being exploited, they would already be exploiting their own ability. It is precisely because they are UNexploitable that they look for a scapegoat to villify, and the capitalist makes the perfect target for egailitarian arrows.

    ‘Economics in One Lesson’ by Henry Hazlitt is the best place to start in the study of reality-based laissez-faire economics. These same fallacies of backwards Keynesianism were thoroughly destroyed by Hazlitt, Hayek and von Mises decades ago.

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  22. on June 13, 2012 at 3:22 pm Evan

    WHAT THE FUCK IS WITH THESE BORING CULTURE AND POLITICS POSTS??? WRITE MOAR ABOUT GAME.

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    • on June 13, 2012 at 4:14 pm beta_plus

      These cultural and political trends are what drive the creation of fat chicks, thus leading to the need for game. Given that by some time mid-century the obesity rate for women world wide will probably approach 100%, it’s necessary to be aware of these to find dwindling supplies of slender women.

      Peak Hour Glass Figure occurred sometime in the late 70s.

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      • on June 13, 2012 at 10:45 pm Jason

        One of the reasons for Peak Hour Glass Figure (love that term!) was the prevalence of cigarette smoking. It’s appetite cessation.

        Take away those cigs, and I’d bet that the average chick’s BMI in 1970 wouldn’t be *too* far off the same chick’s BMI in 2010.

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      • on June 14, 2012 at 10:25 am Tyrone

        Not so in my experience. Almost none of the girls in my high school (Annandale High School) were fat as they are today. I can literally count them on one hand out of 2500 students. Very few of them smoked either, maybe 10-15% at most.

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      • on June 14, 2012 at 10:57 am beta_plus

        Smoking had something to do with it, but personally I think the main driver was feminism telling women not to cook anymore. Restaurant food, no matter how expensive, is lethal on your waste line. Of the most developed countries, only 3 have avoided the fatty express train: France, Italy, and Japan. Now Japan is just weird, but France and Italy have a culture of cooking that was able to defy Feminism – everyone cooks there because, well, you’re not French or Italian otherwise. Hence why they have less fatties than their neighbors.

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      • on June 14, 2012 at 8:16 pm Jason

        Good points. Japan IS weird, with their seaweed and green tea and raw fish zero-fat diets.

        I’ll stick with my veggie tacos, whole wheat orzo, and grass-fed beef … all cooked expertly at home.

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    • on June 13, 2012 at 7:55 pm Tmason

      Dude, the brony convention ended already…

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  23. on June 13, 2012 at 3:23 pm Tartarus

    “There must be some self-regulating rebalancing dynamic that comes into play past a certain egregious level of wealth and employment inequality.”

    The elites will systematically execute the mouth-breathers. The streets will run red with Occutard blood. There’s your rebalancing dynamic.

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  24. on June 13, 2012 at 3:24 pm Anonymous

    “Wealth redistribution” is a moral outrage (no one “distributed” my money), but to hear it discussed as a potential option for economic growth is to wade into the sewer of modern (Keynesian) economic thought. By that logic, you would steal my money and give it to a loafer–so he can turn around and buy my product? Wow, Keynes would be so proud!

    The ugly truth is, we have a huge “surplus” of people who should not exist, people whose existence is made possible by the looting welfare state which acts as an incubator for human rot and decay. It all boils down to morality–until you challenge the morality which alleges to justify the welfare state (or any kind of socialism), you will achieve one disaster and destruction after another. Just leave people alone and let them live for themselves–trying to force everybody to live for everyone else is what got us here.

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    • on June 13, 2012 at 4:07 pm Sidewinder

      There is a lot of truth in this. Our welfare state is subsidizing the most dysfunctional elements of our society at the expense of the most talented. I believe the fundamental belief that is driving this is our discomfort in seeing suffering children. It’s not their fault. The drive to protect these innocent children is the good intention from which every evil of the welfare state springs forth – food stamps, head start, public education, medicaid…you name it.

      The solution is not to kill babies. It is to prevent them from ever being born, or hopefully conceived. Once long term male contraception (at least 1 year of sterility) can be delivered by injection, the next phase is to make it a condition of every convict’s probation, parole, missed child support payment, or receipt of child-based welfare benefits. There is no reason to differentiate between races or income levels. That will work itself out.

      There would be a constitutional challenge to this, however i think if it were shown that the sterility was temporary and completely reversible without causing any reproductive damage, and that it was voluntary (you can’t force someone to be on probation or parole if they want to do the time, or to accept welfare benefits), it would be upheld.

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    • on June 13, 2012 at 10:51 pm Jason

      Couldn’t disagree more, Anonymous. Living for other people is what makes life worth living. Science even proves it, viz. longer life spans for extroverts, married people, etc.

      And who are you to say which people “should not exist”?

      Regarding socialism, you’d better walk the walk. Here’s the recipe: 1) stop eating government-supported food, 2) stop taking all government-regulated medication, 3) stop driving on government-regulated roads, and 4) turn away the government-issued fire truck the next time your house is on fire.

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      • on June 14, 2012 at 10:10 am jodark

        So you support forced “Living for other people”?

        Now bake me a cake. Ya know, because it’s for not you and I need it.

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      • on June 16, 2012 at 1:55 pm Abelard Lindsey

        This is fine as long as those being supported are not allowed to reproduce.

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      • on June 14, 2012 at 10:21 am Tyrone

        It’s not possible to avoid socialism because the socialists have made it impossible to avoid them. Wanting to cut back inefficient and ineffective socialism is not hypocritical, especially when it leads to improvement. Its merely pointing to the root of the problem. Therefore your’s is a straw man argument.

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      • on June 14, 2012 at 8:31 pm Jason

        Tyrone, go learn about the tragedy of the commons. Seriously, google that term right now.

        Here’s a summary: Unmanaged self-interest leads to the depletion of shared resources.

        The solution: Find a group to manage access to resources.

        That group: The government.

        Agreed one hundred percent that government is messed up. But it’s been abused. Don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater. Straighten out the government instead.

        Our elected officials serve a very serious and necessary purpose, especially when the alternative (private business) serves no higher aim than the almighty dollar. (You can read Joseph Schumpater for more on what unregulated capitalism does to family structures.)

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      • on June 15, 2012 at 6:12 pm Glengarry

        As always, there comes the solution that’s simple, obvious and wrong. Grow up.

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      • on June 16, 2012 at 12:13 am Jason

        Care to make an actual argument?

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      • on June 16, 2012 at 1:56 pm Abelard Lindsey

        You got that the wrong way around. Private business produces wealth. Government is rent-seeking parasitism.

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      • on June 17, 2012 at 10:46 pm Boo

        One of a hundred of our government officials “serve a very serious and necessary purpose” the rest are meddlers and sinecures. Remove limited liability and official immunity, and both problems would decline.

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      • on June 15, 2012 at 6:13 pm Glengarry

        Thanks, I’ll be happy to.

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      • on June 15, 2012 at 6:17 pm Glengarry

        I expect those who live longer for the most part do so happily surrounded by their families and relatives. That’s evo for you. Not the same thing as that slithery nostrum “living for other people”.

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    • on June 14, 2012 at 12:32 pm The Real Vince

      Such ridiculous nonsense. The welfare state reduces rates of fertility. The wealthiest families are the most biologically backward — absurdly inefficient when it comes to turning resources into children.

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    • on June 18, 2012 at 2:17 pm Matt Strictland

      Agreed on the surplus population front however given that you and others (heck myself included) do see them as having value in that society is there any reason that they should not tear that society down?

      You don’t have that great a disparity of force and all the people wanting to tear it down are not stupid either.

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  25. on June 13, 2012 at 3:27 pm Matt Strictland

    1st, the Luddites were right. machinery did cause mass unemployment. Its actually killing the civilized world as too few people have the resources to participate in family life. 50% youth unemployment will do that. And yes population is growing by demographic momentum but as said upstream, its mostly dysgenic being low iQ, low investment types and foreigners which is cultural and sometimes racial suicide.

    2nd. We compensated after a long period with a mandated shorter work week (40 hours) retirement Ponzi schemes, a ban on youth labor and until recently pushing women from the work force.

    The 1st can go lower but only to a certain degree as highly skilled people are not fungible and its unreasonable for them to have 2-3 times the work week of a laborer even at much higher wages. This will create structural issues.

    I don’t have to explain the retirement schemes but suffice it to say with people having kids later in life and the expense and the lack of skilled people its not reasonable to expect people to quit working at 50.

    Youth labor is already gone to our detriment for no traction there, And yes its fine for kids to have beginner jobs, I’m not talking about back to the mines or something but like food service.

    Baring being disenfranchised women will not leave the work force, period. Ideally they should, we’d lower the work week to 30 and put in various protection and wages would go up but they won’t.

    This means beyond immigration, the labor pool is doubled and as such just as happened in the US wages were halved.

    In terms of a fix, we’d need a shorter work week (30 hours) tight trade and immigration controls (probably too late for the US) and social credit (everybody is on the dole, you pay taxes over that) tied to GDP. Pushing women out of the workforce has merit too but thats even more unlikely than the above.

    Since a real fix is not possible, that means gradual degradation and 3rd worldiffication.

    What the elite will do is fall back to enclaves as they do in places like Mexico and Brazil than use the technology to hold onto what they have. The US surveillance state, drones, mass incarceration and all that for as long as they can. we already have these things now, so its not foil hat territory just an increase in whats happening

    One option they might explore is to use the technology to eliminate the underclass over time. That goes into foil hat territory though so I’ll leave that to Alex Jones’s crowd.

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  26. on June 13, 2012 at 3:44 pm Steve Penk

    your wildcard scenario, heartiste, would be awesome. Who gives a fuck what arbitary number is in our bank accounts if our lives are nothing but eating ice cream and playing video games?

    Who knows, maybe they’ll invent ice cream that doesn’t make you fat. There’s already video games that do that

    The machines will become our unthinking slaves, as it ought to be

    For a time. Then there will be skynet

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    • on June 14, 2012 at 7:34 pm Jason

      Sorry to break the news, Steve….

      http://www.breyers.com/product/category/113551/fat-free

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      • on June 17, 2012 at 10:50 pm Boo

        1000 calories in that half gallon…

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    • on June 14, 2012 at 8:00 pm Anon

      I’m a low-carb semi-paleo addict. Hit the gym 4 times a week etc…

      And yet I can’t live without low-carb chocolate, low carb ice creams, and coke zero.

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  27. on June 13, 2012 at 3:51 pm peterike

    This is why the neo-con “we must have immigration/ever-growing-population to keep economic growth alive!” crowd are the assholes they are.

    This is why you need economic nationalism. Screw you, transnational mogul with no loyalties. Guess what? We’re slapping major tariffs on all that shit from China you outsourced and we’re going to make things here. Oh boo hoo, you can’t get a t-shirt for three bucks in Wal-Mart now? Every single American alive has way too many t-shirts already anyway. Let them pay 20 bucks for the next one if it’s made in North Carolina by low skilled blacks, otherwise busy Polar Bear hunting or engaging in various other forms of cultural demolition. China and India will crumble the minute we say, “no, we are doing those things for ourselves again.”

    This is why no advanced technology invented by Americans should EVER be allowed to be built or assembled anywhere else. I won’t even get into the treasonous security implications of outsourcing.

    This is why white people in America and Europe need to unify along nationalistic lines.

    And that is why the death spiral will continue until who-knows-what end, because white people will never unite, even as the wolf begins to gnaw at their feet. Better death than social disdain from elite opinion.

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    • on June 15, 2012 at 4:43 pm Whitehall

      Two words – Smoot-Hartley

      Learn from Herbert Hoover’s mistakes, PLEASE!

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      • on June 16, 2012 at 2:12 pm Abelard Lindsey

        If I invent some technology, it is mine. I’ll sell it to whomever I want. It is not for other people to tell me what I am “allowed” to do or not.

        Globalization of technology is a permanent reality. Get used to it.

        In any case, manufacturing is starting to return to the U.S. partly because automation is making it cheaper to manufacture here in the U.S., but mostly because automation is a lot easier to do than to manage a manufacturing process across cultural and time zone differences that is involved in outsourcing (not to mention the fact that the Chinese will steal your technology).

        I notice a lot of nationalistic comments here. Yet not one mention about how the explosive growth of government regulation over the past 20 years has made more and more expensive and difficult to start a manufacturing business in the U.S. If you are serious about bringing back manufacturing to the U.S., you should start by working to eliminate the past 20 years of government regulation.

        Also, biotechnology and biomedicine will advance faster in Asia than the U.S. because they do not have the parasitical bureaucracy of the FDA to contend with. This is why the first stem-cell regeneration and SENS rejuvenation therapies will become available in Asia (and Latin America) long before they will be available in the U.S. There is no way this trend can be prevented.

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      • on June 18, 2012 at 2:24 pm Matt Strictland

        Its called Smoot Hawley and it did not cause the depression .

        http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/10/business/10every.html

        Note here

        At the time of its enactment, exports were only about 5 percent of the economic output of the United States and still outweighed imports. (Even
        now, exports are a smaller part of output in the United States than in any other large developed nation.) To say that the act, which applied to a distinct minority of imports and which raised tariffs generally by only about six percentage points, caused the Depression is almost comical. It did no good, but compared with the titanic monetary policy disasters of the era, the effect of Smoot-Hawley was probably very small, or so most mainstream economists believe.

        For once the lame stream guys were right, stinging that 5% is not enough to have caused a depression

        As a general rule, when applied within a market system, economic nationalism is always beneficial except to the Internationalist elite who are always parasites anyway.

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      • on June 19, 2012 at 8:43 pm Whitehall

        Cause the Depression? Who said that?

        I clearly implied that protective tariffs are a bad idea for complex industrial economies, especially when our economy was the most productive.

        So we lose sales overseas from retaliation and we jack up domestic prices for protected items – I’d call that a bad idea and so did almost all economists at the time.

        I admire Hoover in many ways but his signing this bill remains a mistake.

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  28. on June 13, 2012 at 4:06 pm Marellus

    The prime variable is coercion, and the means to resist it. Governments exist because they have the ultimate monopoly on violence (the ultimate form of coercion) in their jurisdiction.

    Democracies came into existence, because the populace were just as well armed as the armies that governments could raise. Governments had to incorporate the populace.

    Look at Iraq and Afghanistan. The lesson there, is that it is well nigh impossible for a government to (cheaply) enforce its dictates on an armed populace.

    So if there is a revolution in technology, where a group has the means to cheaply defend itself against the ultimate violence of government, that will be a game changer.

    That means that in another Waco, the ATF would not dare storm the compound.

    Is there such a technology ? No.

    So we muddle on as before, but the process will become even more farcical.

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    • on June 17, 2012 at 10:57 pm Boo

      Civilian armed drones. Model planes, Solar panels, batteries, FLIR, pipe bombs, and AK-47s.

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  29. on June 13, 2012 at 4:56 pm FSK

    In a free market, higher productivity leads to lower prices. Everyone should benefit from productivity gains.

    In a free market, when you lose your job, it’s easy to start a new business or find a new job.

    Right now, we have a crony capitalist fake free market. When there are productivity gains, they go to insiders rather than going to everyone.

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  30. on June 13, 2012 at 5:11 pm AnonH

    Andy Grove, founder of Intel, saw this exact same problem.
    http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/10_28/b4186048358596.htm

    In brief, manufacturing employs the biggest chunk of the middle class. The loss of manufacturing jobs overseas is the biggest loss of our middle class.

    His solution? Incentives (and punishments) for companies to build products in the USA. The main punishment is to tax all products built overseas, even if it means a trade war.

    It’ll mean no more cheap TVs from China, but in return, you’ll finally get companies in the USA who can make TVs.

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    • on June 14, 2012 at 10:17 am Tyrone

      I would submit that most costs of doing business in the US are not purely labor related and the big incentive to produce in China is the ability to avoid red tape and things like diversity law suits and overly zealous environmental regulations. Labor is only about 15% of most manufacturing and that is an old statistic. Its likely even lower now with improved automation.

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      • on June 14, 2012 at 11:55 am AnonH

        Apple employs 60,000 people.

        Foxconn, the company that manufactures Apple’s products, employs 1,200,000 people.

        Now then, a USA worker is about 5x more productive than a worker in China, mainly due to automation, but even factoring that in, a USA equivalent of Foxconn would be employing 240,000 people.

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      • on June 17, 2012 at 10:59 pm Boo

        But it would take 25 years to get approval to build the factory, so today, they’d be pumping out Pentium 75’s.

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      • on June 18, 2012 at 2:37 pm Matt Strictland

        Not all I-Pods are sold in the US. Assuming about 1/2 of them are , it would actually be around 120k jobs. Not bad but not enough to make a big difference even with spill over jobs

        Also we have a huge population boom of Hispanic kids who are doing poorly in school, lots of Black and a few others with the same issues. Unless that issue can be dealt with and the border sealed and the illegals booted we will have a chronic problem with unemployment.

        Given that immigration will never be controlled (Republicans want cheap labor and Democrats want a new electorate) it will become impossible to get the unemployment issue under controlled with any rational or sound measures.

        Now if I had a dictatorship and was tasked to do this I’d do it by starting with eliminating the birthright citizenship clause, revoking a lot of citizenships and after the deportations removing all social benefits other than SNAP, a limited retirement (at 65 capped for everyone at medical and 1k,2k for a few occupations ) and widows benefits.

        After that I’d pay people 1000 a month tax free if they got Norplant (female) or RISUG (male) and if they were on the dole more than 10 years and were permanently sterilized, they’d get a hefty bonus. This would be
        rather expensive but in the long term only productive or self sustaining citizens would exist and a dictatorship unlike a republic can do long term things

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  31. on June 13, 2012 at 5:36 pm Marco

    Ricardo’s law of association disembowels this bunch of neo-Marxist crap that is your post. stick to game related topics, this field of thinking is a bit beyond your cognitive abilities.

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    • on June 13, 2012 at 11:25 pm Convict Moll

      What is Ricardos law of association, Marco?

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      • on June 13, 2012 at 11:48 pm Anon

        comparative advantage.

        It doesn’t disembowel shit. Marco is just playing the tough smart guy.
        Although I sometimes sense a pinch of neo-marxism in the CH economic approach.
        But as a hardcore capitalist, I may not be totally objective.

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      • on June 14, 2012 at 12:06 am Convict Moll

        Thanks very much, Anon. I have heard of comparative advantage, but never heard it called that.

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      • on June 14, 2012 at 6:36 am Marco

        god, I’m usually not that rude in comments. was probably drunk.

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      • on June 14, 2012 at 6:43 am Convict Moll

        Are you hungover now?

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  32. on June 13, 2012 at 5:47 pm Anonymous

    Having lived in Asia and South and Central America as an expat for many years I have to say that in most developing countries aside from those on the African continent have seen a significant narrowing of the poverty gap. Those developing nations make up the bulk of the worlds population and therefore it is a more global phenomena. Even if the gap is widening in America who gives a shit, only Americans and Mexicans like America.

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  33. on June 13, 2012 at 6:41 pm pantyfx

    You ever wonder if the fact there are so many people on the planet is just to sustain the impossibility of finding those who are actually in completely control near impossible? Even with the internet, who cares about the board overseers in the IMF? Who cares if banks have accounts only demonstratable in scientific notation? They are not extracting profits from people, they are extracting BELIEF and distraction you with things to emotionally compromise you.

    Its the same with anyone who wants to control a group, it’s perceptioncraft to the nth degree. In that way I would say it’s not any different, merely just another lie popped off the stack (the american dream) so in this moment before the next “rise to power” we see the sad worn faces of people just looking for a bite to eat and a warm hole to leak in ask “why are things this way”?

    There are some ways to win, but really all your getting promoted to is the elite themselves. Thats all the matters if your trying to play the perceptioncraft game instead of having fun.

    You can be a new breed like me seeking to control the machines that connect everyone too I guess, but the reward is purely entertainment. I can have infinite money but really why do I care when as a prerequisite to learning how to do that you realize the world is just a script playing out that you inject in? It’s the cure of the player as you put it in a different flavor. It tastes like silicon and hours of sleepless nights.

    It’s not like you still have the wool over your eyes and believe that girls are as pure as driven snow, the government is there to protect you, and you if you work hard enough doing whatever you want you will have whatever dream you desire.

    If you could do anything and had complete leverage to execute, what would you tell the unwashed masses to do with their lives in your honor?

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  34. on June 13, 2012 at 6:52 pm Free Northerner

    Eventually we’ll reach post-scarcity.

    Before then, things will be tense.
    http://freenortherner.wordpress.com/2012/05/06/perils-of-wealth/

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    • on June 14, 2012 at 4:42 pm Tyrone

      A Yankee, by definition, can’t be free. You’re going to have to change your handle.

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      • on June 14, 2012 at 6:13 pm Free Northerner

        I’m a Canuck, not a Yankee.

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      • on June 15, 2012 at 12:33 pm Tyrone

        That just makes you a Yankee on steroids.

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      • on June 15, 2012 at 12:35 pm Tyrone

        Canada is where all our Yankees get their great ideas from. Canada seems to get its inspiration from Sweden and Norway.

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  35. on June 13, 2012 at 7:00 pm drederick

    1. It is different because the previous technological revolutions (agricultural, industrial) still left humans as the only ones who could do something very important: make intelligent decisions. This made our unique skills more valuable. The AI revolution will automate intelligence (at least to some degree), leaving a large number of humans with nothing they can do better than software and/or machines. If we go far enough into the future, pretty much all humans will have zero marginal product. However this will be OK because humans will own capital. If I own stock right now, and all the companies that I own stock in become massively more productive because of the automation of intelligence, then I don’t need to do anything other than sit back and collect my profits.

    2. If the bottom 90% owns no capital and are unemployed, the top 10% won’t need to extract anything from the bottom 90%. The entire reason that the bottom 90% would be unemployed is because machines and software are making everything that the top 10% want, cheaper than any of the bottom 90% could produce it.

    Even if you think the Singularity is crackery, I highly recommend reading Robin Hanson’s discussion of the economics of the Singularity. The same concepts apply even if you assume that AI will never be as smart as humans but will still produce a lot of ZMP workers. http://spectrum.ieee.org/robotics/robotics-software/economics-of-the-singularity/0

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  36. on June 13, 2012 at 7:41 pm Anonymous

    “2. If, say, most of the profits go to the top 10% in society, while the bottom 90% are unemployed or marginally employed, how is it exactly that those top 10% will be able to extract profits from a customer base that doesn’t have the income stream to afford more than the basic necessities?”

    You stop producing consumer goods for the masses and produce extravagant luxury goods for other members of the elite instead.

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  37. on June 13, 2012 at 7:53 pm Don

    Which future are we heading for – Brave New World or 1984 or a mixture of both? In the former, human pleasure is the priority of life as well as the controlling mechanism. In 1984 the pursuit of power trumps all. Power for power’s sake is the driving force and the pleasure gained by attaining it and exercising it is the principal pleasure enjoyed by the powers that be.

    When you look at your own life, which one is the biggest driver personally? Power or pleasure or both? Why do you pursue a woman for sex? Why do you eat what you eat? What about your job? What drives what you do during your spare time? What stimulating substances do you take and why? Pleasure appears to be the driving force for quite a few of us so Brave New World it is.

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    • on June 14, 2012 at 7:38 pm Jason

      Agreed. I’ve been saying that for years. 1984 hasn’t come true, not for the general populace. But Huxley … now there was a man with foresight.

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      • on June 14, 2012 at 8:00 pm GeishaKate

        Elements of 1984 have happened. Bradbury’s the one I think best depicts where we are headed. The Fahrenheit 451 society is a bit more “advanced” than we are at this point in time. But it could still lead up to Huxley’s version. Incidentally Bradbury passed away a couple weeks ago, I believe. R.I.P.

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      • on June 14, 2012 at 8:22 pm Jason

        Hm. Maybe I need to reread 451 again, but burning books is about as dead-opposite today’s texting/blogging/ebooking verbally expressive world as one can get.

        Of course, other elements in the story may be occurring — like the spaced-out wife in front of the seventeen screens at home — but overall I’d give the nod to Huxley, just because he was the only one of the group who incorporated science (which is truly the biggest mover and shaker of our time).

        Bradbury lived a few miles from me here in L.A., on Motor Blvd. He was a real character.

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      • on June 14, 2012 at 9:07 pm GeishaKate

        Yes, read it again. I did this spring for the first time since high school and I was amazed how eerie it was. Ear buds, wall screen televisions, the public voluntarily giving up reading…

        Blogging is digital thinking. Imo, its very different than books. The canon, anyway. The reason they gave up books was because they caused unhappiness: nothing was supposed to interfere with everyone’s personal happiness. Contradictory ideas are confusing and must be eliminated! Since my job requires me to get people to read and think, I see more than the average who don’t want to do it, I suppose.

        You’re right about our world being verbally expressive, but is anyone actually saying anything of value? Only a few.

        How cool that you knew him!

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      • on June 15, 2012 at 12:31 pm Tyrone

        You really need to read his short stories. I suggest R is for Rocket, the Illustrated Man and the Martian Chronicles for starters. Ray had a low opinion of socialism or collectivism in general. He regularly wrote about the frivlous and absurd nature of people with too little in common with nature.

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  38. on June 13, 2012 at 8:18 pm Fourmyle of Ceres

    You’re not wrong about the automation-

    Machine makes burrito; fire everyone at Chipotle: http://techcrunch.com/2012/06/13/the-singularity-is-near-nyu-student-builds-a-robot-that-builds-burritos/

    Robot sews clothes, put Vietnam out of work: http://www.mnn.com/green-tech/research-innovations/stories/robot-sewing-machines-could-make-made-in-china-obsolete

    Foxconn replacing Chinese labor with robots: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/aug/01/foxconn-robots-replace-chinese-workers

    —
    We already see all of your themes. Total labor unemployment is way, way up because ZMP workers can’t get jobs. Aggregate demand for non-luxury goods is way down. The Fed prints $Trillions to compensate the AD shortfall, keeping inflation at the expected 2%. Meanwhile budget deficits by government are huge and mostly driven by transfers like unemployment, food stamps and Medicaid. The Fed should save a step – print money and wire it directly to the unemployed.

    But the price of goods will continue to fall because robots work so cheap. “Made in China” costs 4x as much as “Made by Robots”. Manufacturing will come back to the US to save on shipping costs and reduce delivery time, but no jobs will result from it. Once the California Orange Growers Association finishes the R&D on their robot fruit pickers the Mexicans will go home.

    We will live in an era of abundance in everything but meaningful work. Open source software and hardware will never be as nice as an iPhone, but Android isn’t that bad. Everyone will have one, made by robots for the cost of electricity and raw materials. Even welfare can cover a price that low.

    What will people do? Well the elites will come to their senses and realize people need to be distracted. Thankfully porn and reality TV are already free, so all that’s left is the legalization of pot and robot hydroponic farms to grow it in.

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    • on June 17, 2012 at 11:10 pm Boo

      What will the bottom 90% do? Pro sports and reality TV. And the Hunger Games (?)

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    • on June 20, 2012 at 3:13 pm samsonsjawbone

      We will live in an era of abundance in everything but meaningful work.

      Which is terrible since science is pretty conclusive that “stuff” doesn’t really make us happy, while meaningful work is actually foundational to happiness.

      I think we may have to learn to make our own “meaningful work”. Learn to garden, make crafts, etc.

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  39. on June 13, 2012 at 8:47 pm Rum

    Feudalism has in recent times been given a reputation that is unfair. I mean, it conformed to the realities of its time, and that is no small thing. In those days, there were loads of people who could not function independently and who were more than willing to offer loyalty and service to a liege-lord in exchange for his protection and his assertive ordering of their deranged instincts and jejune priorities.
    What I foresee is a return of the pattern of the Medieval Domus… a stable, extended household with a head-man at the center, serviced by a cadre of females, and sheltering under its branches a miriad of un-formed, semi-productive young people who would otherwise be on the street.

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    • on June 14, 2012 at 9:53 am Tyrone

      Feudalism was originally a reform introduced by Charlemagne. It replaced the plantation system, which existed in much of Europe until the 11th century or so. All newly conquered domains had to convert to feudalism per Charlemagne’s decree. It allowed men to have their own land and a family, which increased productivity. Before then, estates were worked with gangs of slaves.

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    • on June 14, 2012 at 7:40 pm Jason

      Sadly, Rum, you’re right. Feudalism is probably the worst-case scenario of the future. Signs of it are everywhere. Its arrival signals that the middle class is loooong gone.

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  40. on June 13, 2012 at 9:28 pm gramps

    Back in the 1960 I think, or late 1950’s, books were being published about the coming great crisis for American society: Too Much Leisure.

    Automation of factory jobs (we were a manufacturing country then, far and away the biggest in the world), was going to leave millions of Americans with nothing to do. CRISIS!!!

    Well, I haven’t noticed too many of my friends having too much leisure time over the last 50 years. There is less leisure time today, since two incomes are required for a middle class existence.

    If you want a good, ironic laugh, just read the predictions that were made about the future in 1960. They are so far off the mark it is embarrassing that I even took some of them seriously. Famine 1984!! World War III and atomic holocaust!!! Flying cars!!! Communism would dominate the world.

    Nobody said that capitalism would conquer all.

    My favorite now were the musings on the future of China (under Mao) by Arnold Toynbee, who was the most famous of the big picture historians. His Study of History was a great classic. He thought he understood how societies come into existence, prosper, wither, and die. He was intrigued by the new model of civilization of Chinese Communism and was highly enthused (or cautiously optimistic) it might lead to a different and higher form of civilization with a unique evolution, if my memory serves me right. I am not going to go re-read my copy of that work, which is still on my bookshelf somewhere.

    Right. Duh.

    Nobody in 1960 predicted the world we live in today.

    Like Yogi said, “Making predictions is very difficult. Especially about the future.”

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  41. on June 13, 2012 at 10:20 pm aretae

    Heartiste,

    The issue is knowledge-work. As of 50 years ago, we didn’t have machines that could make decisions. As of now, a good high-end one-off statistical algorithm makes better diagnoses on average than doctors do.

    When horses were harnessed to plow fields, human beings shifted to doing the sowing work…and fashioning pots.

    When machines began to sow the fields and fashion pots, human beings shifted to doing the planning work, and driving the tractor.

    When machines begin to make the plans and drive the tractor…there isn’t necessarily a lot of room for kinds of jobs that humans are more able to do. Humans thus far have shifted into decisioning jobs. If those are the ones the robots are taking…what then? It’s not obvious that there is anything left.

    My rough estimate is that at this point today, the number of jobs that a 70 IQ person is more qualified than a robot to do is somewhere between few and none (picking strawberries in the summer on the Texas-Mexico border?). Driving a truck from LA to Boston. Etc.

    I also would suggest that it’s awful close to true that the IQ-boundary is increasing at 1-2 points per year. In 20 years, it looks like a 100-IQ person is worthless as compared to a robot. 10 years later…it may be that an IQ 115 person can’t compete with a robot on ANY job.

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  42. on June 13, 2012 at 11:08 pm chris

    The problem as I see it. Cheap foreign labour has a whole host of negative externalities tied in with it yet isn’t incorporated into the price itself, instead the society in which the foreign labour exists bears the brunt of these negative externalities, namely corruption, violence, pettiness, and the general social conditions that produce revolutions.

    Yet, the people who use foreign labour think that its savings are cost free. Their not. If you try to equalise labour costs between societies, then you will also equalise the social conditions of the society. That means expect those beneath you have their wages pushed down to make up for that by becoming more corrupt, more violent, more petty and to generate the sort of social conditions that produce revolutions.

    The high wages of western labour is the price of peace and stability in society. Try and gouge them, and they’ll gouge back.

    The sanctity of private property stems from people’s willingness to respect it. You ain’t rich cause you’re objectively or divinely owed that money. Your rich cause everyone else lets you keep that money and they’re the ones who think you deserve it. Start fucking over that everyone else, and they may not think you deserve that money for much longer.

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    • on June 13, 2012 at 11:13 pm chris

      It also works the same with with social status/rank/position. Start abusing you status/rank/position and the people beneath you will turn on you. As your position isn’t divinely ordained to you but is given to you through the peoples assent.

      To paraphrase Braveheart, “You think the people exist to give you position. I think your position exists to serve the people!”

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      • on June 14, 2012 at 9:48 am Firepower

        You, of course, realize
        you must back up that Braveheart assertion
        with a sword.

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      • on June 14, 2012 at 4:39 pm Tyrone

        Which is why we have the 2nd Amendment. Freedom always needs to be backed up by the armed citizen.

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  43. on June 13, 2012 at 11:18 pm Anonymous

    http://www.amazon.com/Lights-Tunnel-Automation-Accelerating-Technology/dp/1448659817/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1339643698&sr=1-1 this is the book that immediately came to mind when I read this post.
    from the reviews “Machines are fast approaching humans in terms of *mental* labor capacity, not just *physical* labor capacity. In the past as machines took over much of our physical labor, we were then free to turn to more valuable mental labor. But once machines take over much of our mental labor, then what do we turn to for employment?”

    for those here saying 10/90 producer/consumer is sustainable, he argues this would severely slow down human productivity, i.e., stagnation.

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  44. on June 13, 2012 at 11:36 pm chi-town

    What is missing in this equation is the nature of the profits rising to the top. Its not earned income. Its economic rent, meaning labor aka the ones doing the work are starved of capital. Human created capital comes and goes but old money knows to control resources and to rent them. If history is any guide, it leads to stagnation since rentiers born into privilege know how to do nothing. China as an emerging economy is a laugh. They are capitalist that died from rentier stagnation reemerging from the ashes. When the world becomes one, what civilization will provide the embarrassment that the West provided the East?

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  45. on June 14, 2012 at 12:08 am Anonymous

    Heartiste’s appears to have not travelled the world too widely.

    Nearly the entire world has existed, for nearly all of history, in the state you’re predicting. A tiny ruling elite controls all the wealth and lords over the poor masses.

    Visit Latin America.

    There is no self-correction. Mass prosperity only comes through politics. As happened in the west, workers and voters decided (in the past) on arrangements that favored them over the tiny few.

    Now, that arrangement is being rewritten.

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  46. on June 14, 2012 at 1:03 am LBK

    I don’t bother making the effort to form opinions on questions like this because it doesn’t do me any good to do so. It’s not as though the leaders of countries call me to ask for advice. When people like Bernanke start calling me for advice on policy questions then I’ll start thinking about it. Until then, I plan to just keep working on my Game and having fun. That’s how I optimize MY life.

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  47. on June 14, 2012 at 1:16 am rycamor

    CH, I see more dynamics happening than the ones you mention. Let us call them… orthogonal dynamics, cutting in completely different ways from the elite/prole ones you bring up.

    1. The ‘opt out’ crowd: opt-outers are characterized by such things as homeschooling their children, acquiring a few firearms, living ‘off the grid’, growing their own gardens, perhaps even living on a few acres and raising chickens and goats, BUT they are not the country bumpkin ‘survivalists’ that the Washington Post would have us think. They are often quite intelligent, if unorthodox, and are always coming up with creative ways of increasing efficiency on the small homesteading front. Some are evangelical Christians, some are former hippies, some are survivalist libertarians, and of course now there are the paleo-eating/lifestyle people. A few decades ago, these were the people inventing things and starting new businesses, but they increasingly see that the deck is stacked against them (patent litigation, corrupt monetary system, etc..), so they have decided rather than to try to win within the system, work to disengage from it as much as possible. These sorts of people will be in an ideal position to employ the low-IQ proles left out of the technocratic hierarchy, since they have far less need of the abstractions of city life.

    The opt-outers are increasingly opting out of the industrial food chain, which is one MAJOR area of control by the elites. One primary question being addressed by this crowd is “Why?” Why do we need ever new ‘advances’ that always end up enslaving us more? Not that they are anti-technology or anti-civilization, but that they advocate a much more skeptical eye on the vaunted benefits being offered. A good (and extremely successful) example of this mindset is Joel Salatin of Polyface Farms who combines modern technology where applicable with much more traditional (pre-industrial) farming techniques. His farm literally gets almost 8X the monetary yield per acre as his industrial-farming neighbors. He has become a celebrity in this sort of “eat local and ignore the system” concept, touring and speaking 100 days a year. Everyone interested in alternate possibilities for the human future should read his book “Everything I Want to Do is Illegal”

    2. The problems of complexity: automation everywhere brings with it an incredible number of pitfalls. Complexity theory hints at this. Human beings are natural negotiators of complex systems, able to make decisions that lie outside of of predetermined schema, to synthesize and come up with a response when the rules of the system don’t have an answer. I suspect that with large-scale automation there will be many unforseen costs to efficiency that will make the elites a lot less profit than they think. In fact, I believe IN GENERAL that the machinery of modern society is a lot less profitable than we have been led to believe, and this fact is covered up by government regulation, careful indoctrination in the schools, inflation, bailouts and the like. Automation is not what has put all the money in the elites’ hands. It is a monetary system that rewards the top elite in ways the average person (even the average educated person) has been assiduously deflected from studying or understanding. Again the opt-outers (like your friend the Hawaiian Libertarian, and to some extent Vox Day and his readers) know these things and are preparing their lives so as to contribute to society’s machine as little as possible.

    3. Economic collapse: the elites may be holed up in their enclaves, but they are literally only a few pay cycles away from being overrun by hungry mobs if their carefully-balanced economic tightrope walk flounders. The intelligent rich know this and many are themselves preparing to opt out (at least as a plan B or C), and live in obscurity on their country estates in 3rd-world countries.

    Put all these together and there is a very real chance that there will be some a regression away from giant top-down industrialized control of society in the next few decades. A few game-changers such as (your favorite) male contraception, small-scale power generation, garage-scale manufacturing (increasingly possible with modern CNC/fab machines and regular desktop computers), and there is a very real chance that the elite could lose control to a certain amount of decentralization. This of course has them terrified, hence the stepped-up security theater, TSA, economic intervention, attempts to hyper-regulate farming, etc…, contrasted with this gives one pause. Which way the pendulum will swing…who knows, but I suspect it’s going to get interesting.

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  48. on June 14, 2012 at 1:46 am Nom

    “a world of relegated uselessness […its effect on the psyche].”

    That’s really the only problem. People would have to learn to have hobbies, like the previous useless class in human history: the nobility.

    They could be supported materially and otherwise, and they would be. I think that’s the likely future, disregarding any possible apocalyptic events (such as the magnetic reversal that will come at some point and kill off ~100% of unprepared humanity).

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  49. on June 14, 2012 at 2:31 am Gil

    Julian Simon (and his fans) whole notion that “overpopulation is good” is based on the notion that humans are indeed fungible. Hence they conveniently ignore that the poorest part of the world are that way because of the quality of the people who live there.

    [heartiste: bingo. we need this constantly drummed into the heads of every economist who writes a blog. i’m looking at you cheap chalupas.]

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    • on June 14, 2012 at 8:04 pm Jason

      Hm. That’s pretty nasty, and it seems too simplistic. It’s a chicken-or-the-egg question. Are poor people poor because of their idiot parents’ genes, or are poor people poor because of their village’s lack of instruction?

      But from a humanitarian and ecological standpoint, I fail to see how overpopulation is good in any way, shape, or form.

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      • on June 15, 2012 at 4:30 pm Whitehall

        Define “overpopulation” please.

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      • on June 15, 2012 at 6:25 pm Glengarry

        Relying on the kindness of strangers.

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  50. on June 14, 2012 at 2:50 am llbrontell

    There is one huge lacking point in this discussion:

    Wage floors (particularly: the minimum wage) and long-term unemployment insurance and realistic wage expectation.

    Wage Controls price extremelly low skilled workers out of the labor market. It renders them unemployable. Therefore, they do not get the work experience to become more valuable later. Wage floors are a real gift that keeps on giving.

    I live and work in a region of the world (Saudi Arabia) in which wage controls only apply to a single nationality: Saudis. The rest can work for any wage they are willing to work for.

    When I first arrived in the country and saw the jobs being done that NO WESTERNER would do (skycap services in the parking lot, etc, live in maids, personal drivers). My first thought was: there must be no minimum wage here.

    The result: High unemployment for Saudis, but everyone else is employable. The amazing part: these guest workers SEND MONEY HOME, even on their low wages. (Drivers make $500 a month, live in maids make $300 – $400 a month).

    Unemployment can be eliminated in two steps:

    (1) eliminate the minimum wage.
    (2) eliminate welfare programs and unemployment insurance programs.

    (another thing that would help is getting rid of government licensing for low skilled work, like hair dressing, plumbing, etc.)

    (1) prices low-skilled labor off the market.
    (2) gives people incentive not to work.

    Wages will fall, especially for unskilled labor, as people bid for work. (It isn\’t employers that push wages down, it is bidding laborers who bid lower to attract the attention of a potential employer.) There will be a downward adjustment in expected standards of living for a time. But people will be able to work–legally.

    Read: Economics in One Lesson by Henry Hazlitt.

    As innovation takes place, the changes introduced will render some occupations of lower economic value. i.e. expect a lower salary. People need to be aware of this, and should not be surprised when it happens. They should have a backup plan. There is risk in highly specialized, technical occupations. A later innovation and render you useless in a matter of a few years.

    Cases in point: Newspapers. Kodak (who, ironically, invented the digital camera). Mainstream News. Cable/Satellite Television (internet based on-demand will eventually push this out of the market).

    However, \”social insurance\” programs–which are ponzi schemes–get in the way psychologically. They give people a false sense of security. Therefore they don\’t come up with backup plans.

    —–

    The other aspect is wage expectations. Government monetary interferance induced booms in particular labor markets (1990s, technology, 2000s, residental construction and appliances, real estate etc.) Wages became high for relatively low-skilled work. Combine this with unemployment insurance that is based on previous wages, and you have a recipe for people to refuse lower paying jobs.

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    • on June 15, 2012 at 1:59 am Mr. Pointyface

      I notice you only want “low-skilled” occupational licensing to go away. Could you be a “high-skilled” worker, with a “moat” license, for instance petroleum engineer? Your job of course, is special, and must be protected…

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      • on June 23, 2012 at 8:14 am llbrontell

        Actually, I am not a licensed tradesman. I only mentioned low-skilled because it that is an obvious obstacle most people can see. When you say “eliminate licensing for doctors”, people who can’t see what government licensing really is flip. “You want to kill children!”

        I would personally prefer to see government out of the licensing business–completely. Just because a person can pass a test doesn’t mean he actually has skill in the profession the “test” is supposed to measure. Moreover this creates cartels and keeps competition out. I am all for competition. And for lower prices.

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  51. on June 14, 2012 at 3:19 am Jesikka Bby (@BbyJesikka)

    Human to human interaction jobs will never cease to exist. Those with lower IQs will still be able to work a cash-register. People will always prefer dealing with another person, especially an attractive female one, over a machine or a high IQ aspie.
    Assuming there\’s a highly automated future (likely), personal human greeters, like secretaries, are likely still to be in place just to retain that human element.
    As a corporation, would you prefer to have a human face that people relate to, or an inhuman machine that people would be repulsed by?
    ~Note, is troll twitter, my wordpress account is fucked.

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    • on June 15, 2012 at 4:27 pm Whitehall

      Three words – Automatic Teller Machine.

      But really, your argument is a straw man.

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      • on June 17, 2012 at 11:22 pm Boo

        Two words – self checkout.

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  52. on June 14, 2012 at 4:14 am Bob Smith

    “There is a third, albeit unlikely, outcome: goods will be able to be manufactured and distributed so cheaply that no more than a meager income stream will be needed to adorn one’s lifestyle with a slew of creature comforts.”

    Isn’t that the situtation right now? An allegedly “poor” person in the US has a lifestyle that would have been the envy of kings 200 years ago. Sure, dozens of servants are great, but I’d rather have central AC, a high-def TV, and an iPhone. Heck, compare a Ford Focus to a 1960s Cadillac. If inflation weren’t official government policy goods would be getting cheaper every year, as was the case for many decades preceding the creation of the Fed.

    [heartiste: this is more an example of gov’t interference via redistribution, as i mentioned in the post was one option available to pay off potential rioters. would the poor and working class be able to afford iphones without welfare? no. so creature comforts aren’t yet cheap enough.]

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  53. on June 14, 2012 at 8:03 am GeishaKate

    In my view, the concern of automation is not without us, but within us. When we lose our humanity, our ability to feel and relfect, we become the automatons.

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  54. on June 14, 2012 at 8:33 am gig

    What the elite will do is fall back to enclaves as they do in places like Mexico and Brazil than use the technology to hold onto what they have. The US surveillance state, drones, mass incarceration and all that for as long as they can. we already have these things now, so its not foil hat territory just an increase in whats happening

    One option they might explore is to use the technology to eliminate the underclass over time. That goes into foil hat territory though so I’ll leave that to Alex Jones’s crowd.

    No technology needed. Cut public expenditue of healthcare, education and income transfers to zero, or rather wait for the financial crisis to do that.

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  55. on June 14, 2012 at 8:53 am gig

    In my view, the concern of automation is not without us, but within us. When we lose our humanity, our ability to feel and relfect, we become the automatons

    Kumbaya comment of the Month.

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    • on June 14, 2012 at 10:30 am GeishaKate

      A late entry to the contest:

      Take a look at the “economically disadvantaged” youth of today and ask yourself what is more likely to happen: they will be ruled by robots or they will never progress to their full human potential, in essence, being robots themselves: buying what their televisions tell them to buy, being slaves to their debt, never knowing there is more to life than what they see. As has been pointed out many times, they are the ones reproducing most prolifically, so they should very much be a concern. What is necessary is work that is meaningful and lives that are purposeful for people to retain their dignity.

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  56. on June 14, 2012 at 10:35 am a girl

    i remember robin hanson had a very interesting article arguing that unlike immigration, robots will permenently drive down real wages.

    most of us girls will become spinsters if those gorgeous fembots also learn cooking, cleaning, ironing, talking about sports, … all at the cost of a bmw, some battery recharging and periodical maintanance.

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    • on June 14, 2012 at 4:35 pm Tyrone

      Moreover, one could have a harem of them.

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  57. on June 14, 2012 at 11:23 am My Cunt Is Wet With Fear

    Excellent recent free book on this subject here:

    http://www.thelightsinthetunnel.com/toc.htm

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    • on June 20, 2012 at 10:02 am Anonymous

      I’m all for complementing different opinions to help cover your dead angles but I also had the disgrace to have to work with Google people and, I tell you, stay away from those faggots.

      Google is a fucking elitist SECT full of gay visuo-spatial thinkers [https://code.google.com/p/blockly/?redir=1] who think they are a gift to the world and should be ruling it, like every other sectarious faggot.

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  58. on June 14, 2012 at 11:31 am a girl

    it is really a depressing thought imagining that one day, some of us humans might want to demand a slight wage premium because they have been natually conceived and grown up free range instead of those conceived in a lab, raised in a human farm and fed a diet of homogenous thoughts.

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  59. on June 14, 2012 at 12:17 pm a girl

    is this one of those periodic posts to sift out the economists and the members of the economics fan club from the crowd? 😉

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  60. on June 14, 2012 at 2:48 pm Aurini

    The GMI – guaranteed minimum income – is the base level wealth redistributed to ALL members of the society, regardless of if they work or not. It does not, therefore, incentivize laziness.

    To subsidize this, all commerce is heavily taxed – but, because of this, even if you’re making only $0.50/hour, it’s still take-home profit.

    The lower classes would (hopefully) engage in semi-productive activities such as cultural creation (if you can call rap culture), or service industry pleasantness.

    That’s one idea.

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  61. on June 14, 2012 at 3:16 pm gringochileno

    Robert Reich has been making a similar point about how income inequality is exacerbating the US’s demand shortfall by reducing the number of people who are able to afford consumer goods. You have some strange bedfellows on this one CR…

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    • on June 14, 2012 at 8:08 pm Jason

      Reich is quoting facts. Anybody with a brain — him, H, you, me — is already in that bed.

      It seems to be that this is really the crucial issue of our time, the one that affects everything, including sexual politics.

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  62. on June 14, 2012 at 3:23 pm Wrecked 'Em

    You’ve just described Saudi Arabia.

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  63. on June 14, 2012 at 4:13 pm Kay

    10 Jobs That Won’t Be Taken By Robots…Yet

    http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/Articles/2012/06/07/10-Jobs-that-Wont-Be-Taken-By-Robots-Yet.aspx#page1

    “Jobs that are non-routine or creative, or which involve complex human interaction, tend to be safer.”

    Let’s think of the people we are surrounded by every day. Who among them are capable of “complex human interaction”? Just took a quick glance around my place of employment….uhhh, no one. And I think most people would probably say the same. It hurts most people’s heads just to come up with more than one coherent sentence at a time.

    Most people are suited for routine, repetitive tasks that require little thought. And as technology continues to make life even easier, the problem will only get worse. “Idiocracy” will be categorized as a documentary in the not too distant future.

    Also, how many psyches will truly be distraught from relegated uselessness? The intelligent among us will understand this crisis, but must won’t be able to comprehend its true nature. People will think that the crisis is merely transitory, that it says nothing about their usefulness to humanity, and will gleefully accept whatever handouts come their way through wealth redistribution.

    But, given that we are using up the planet as if there were 1.5 earths available, there’s a good chance that we’ll have our plate full just trying to survive. However, maybe the two problems are linked more closely I think, and may not be seperate at all. Both seem to deal with there just being too many excess people, given the physical limitations of this world and given the evolving nature of the economy.

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  64. on June 14, 2012 at 9:14 pm Zacalena

    This question assumes that by the time we get to this point that we haven’t partially wiped ourselves out as a race. 90% of people being poor and unable to sustain themselves doesn’t seem like the type of climate that will be capable of staying peaceful.

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  65. on June 14, 2012 at 9:30 pm rayge

    By the time robotics are good enough to replace humans, video games will be good enough to replace the outside world. There are already people whose lives are replaced with online gaming. That sort of lifestyle is currently only attractive to the lowest of the social ranks, but that is only a matter of development. Technological advances will allow for more stimulating sensory input. A greater (nearly complete?) understanding of the human brain will allow for incredibly effectively engineered rewards. Massive amounts of data is and will continue to be compiled on the habits of these gamers, allowing for increasingly rewarding fine tuning. Eventually these games will be more rewarding and meaningful than a human life could ever be. Plug in the poor, they will have no need to breed, and we will be rid. The generation after that we plug in the rich, and the robots will be rid of us.

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  66. on June 15, 2012 at 12:22 am ivan76

    I’ll attempt to answer as someone with some econ background.

    You answered most of your questions yourself

    >How is the present automation and productivity conundrum qualitatively different than ones from the past

    It is different because we’re running out of low skill jobs. When manufacturing the necessities of life becomes automated the main thing left is signalling. Signalling with art, taste, social standing etc. Signalling is a zero sum game and thus will never be exhausted. But we don’t signal with servants anymore, and there probably isn’t a need for millions of artists, chefs, boutique farmers etc.

    >If, say, most of the profits go to the top 10% in society, while the bottom 90% are unemployed or marginally employed, how is it exactly that those top 10% will be able to extract profits from a customer base that doesn’t have the income stream to afford more than the basic necessities?

    Profits will come from two sectors, figuring out innovations in providing necessities even more efficiently, and art/status/signalling. We’re already seeing this in the fast moving tech sector. You have PC’s and Apples which illustrate each side.

    >There is a third, albeit unlikely, outcome: goods will be able to be manufactured and distributed so cheaply that no more than a meager income stream will be needed to adorn one’s lifestyle with a slew of creature comforts.

    This has already happened. Not seeing the forest for the trees here. The first world poor live like fucking kings. The rest of the world catching up is a very worthwhile endeavor.

    The rebalancing will either be violent or redistribution in the vein of Milton Friedman’s negative income tax, which is already much cheaper than current schemes. (you can do the math yourself on the back of a napkin from the 2011 US tax receipt data, prepare to be fucking angry).

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  67. on June 15, 2012 at 3:11 am Matt-el

    Ok. So I’ve read the whole thead.
    It’s a generalisation that misses the distinctions to say that the previous automation and productivity conundrum turned out ok just because we migrated as a group from manual labour to knowledge work in the first place. Automation didn’t do away with the need for Manual Work so much as it fractured the need for it, into smaller more specialised blocks. We started with feudalism where, what, 90% of the population were farmers? A combination of factors (push and pull) led to farm work becoming more expensive and eventually led to automation. So manual labour next centred on a much more varied manufacturing landscape. The focus of automation eventually shifted to the next large block – manufacturing jobs. But what proportion of the population was in manufacturing this generation compared to agriculture back in the middle ages anyway? Much less. Where did the rest of the manual labour stock of the population go then if they weren’t in manufacturing? They didn’t suddenly leap in IQ and take up knowledge work. They found work in other areas of comparative advantage that required their skills, but being more specialised (in task) and less numerous than the manufacturers, they escape the notice of our ‘automation destroys manual jobs’ analysis. It’s just easier to see the decline of a large group (farmers, manufacturers) than it is to see the rise of many smaller groups (bike couriers, process servers, long haul truckers…) Especially in view of the simultaneous large rise in a more easily identifiable homogenous group – the largely female ‘knowledge worker’.
    The many new smaller groups of physical worker also largely escape the threat of further automation to their jobs as a result of this fracturing. Machines, and even code, take effort and capital to create. The incentive is there to automate a largely homogenous area of work (some aspects of farming, but not all, even today – and the assembly line particularly with manufacturing) but more and more expensive to replace all areas of physical work. To a large extent the large blocks of workers have themselves to blame too – a large block can coerce a higher rate of return for its labour than is warranted. If it wasn’t for unionisation much of that old school large scale manual jobs may not have been automated in the first place. Smaller blocks, ironically, make the worker safer than their more numerous, Better Represented peers due to their inability to as effectively collectively bargain themselves into obsolescence.
    So while we can fret about an impending automation of Knowledge Work pushing us to a higher and diminishing area of cognitive advantage, the automation of physical work should show us that the result of automation will more likely fracture knowledge work into smaller and smaller more specialised, but not necessarily more difficult, areas of knowledge work. Is it any question that the physical labour jobs of today are not as physically taxing as the past? And, no it’s not just that heavy labour has been replaced by ‘smarter’ labour. Is todays long haul truck driver really more of a cognitive worker the than the agrarian age farmer? Is he even as manually capable as his farmer ancestor?
    Automation doesn’t just get rid of the low hanging fruit of large and repetitive tasks though; it also lowers the bar to entry for physical work while simultaneously lessoning the value of the extremes or more expensive outliers of that type of work. A physically superior labourer may have looked in dismay at how Mechanisation allowed his less physically able colleges to perform much closer to his diminishing, comparatively greater level of physical output. It’s possible that, as with declining quality of modern physical capital still being able to find a place in the market for physical labour, so too may our declining intellectual stock still find a way to do knowledge work. Could the automation of many routine mental tasks as well as the automation of the higher end expensive, Aspie-tasks provide similar levelling of the cognitive class? Will large groups of the cognitive class attempt to unionise to maintain the higher wages they feel they deserve? Will this lead to more automation until the cognitive class is fractured into small enough niches to stop outpricing itself? But haven’t they already? Who is this knowledge class really? Where did all these knowledge workers come from? Obviously some Automation has led to freeing the pre-existing intellectually able, from a life of grinding physical labour to be able to pursue cognitive work. The rise of the cognitive class really might just be an artefact of the rise of female workers. And just like the auto manufacturing group before them, they are a largely homogenous group that has bargained collectively to raise the cost of their labour beyond its true value, which is the real reason we are seeing the push for automation of Cognitive Work – which should automate the routine, lower the bar to entry, and bring down the most costly outliers at the extreme. Most wealth is created on the right hand side of the bell curve for sure, but it’s not the highest of IQ’s that are best at divining and defining the needs of the largest group of people.

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  68. on June 15, 2012 at 8:15 am Joose

    1. It is the same, merely an exaggeration — in the industrial revolution, productivity transfered from craftsmen to managers (knowledge-workers). The managers harnessed the productivity to create better machines and more productivity; profits were had by all and trickled down to the former-craftsmen-now-laborers. In the 21st century the productivity of managers is transferring to these now far more sophisticated automata, e.g. software and machines. Since there are relatively fewer automata-creators than knowledge-workers because being an automata-creator is difficult, power is further concentrated, the craftsmen become even more irrelevant, and even the knowledge-workers are out of a job.

    Example from real life: I am a software programmer and own 2 companies, which I started 4 years ago. 4 years ago, I employed 2 assistants to do things like invoicing, following up with clients, mailing thank you notes, and reminding me to do stuff. Now, software has replaced all of those tasks (even thank you notes http://thankthanknote.com) and I have fired the 2 assistants.

    2. This is a great question. The answer is that eventually, if automata continue to advance and eventually reach an ideal, perfectly productive state, money becomes obsolete. There is simply one machine, owned by one omnipotent human automata-creator, that produces everything for everybody. In the time leading up to that perfectly productive state, the omnipotent human accrues all of the wealth in the world, finally rendering wealth irrelevant and solving one of mankind’s greatest problems.

    Example from real life: Steve Jobs could be considered the pupae-form of this archetype.

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  69. on June 15, 2012 at 3:07 pm ShaperV

    Ah, now here’s an area I actually have expertise in.

    Most people who write about this topic implicitly assume that automation is generic, as if we could turn out robots with human intelligence in a factory and put them to work automating the whole job market at once. But anyone who follows AI research knows that isn’t the case. Even software than can understand conversational English and follow simple instructions like a human assistant isn’t likely to be possible in the next 20 years.

    Yes, yes, I know the media is full of stuff that sounds like counterexamples. I work in this field. It’s all smoke and mirrors, and the hacks that make such things work (usually, sort of) are incredibly tailored to the specific job a particular system is designed to do. There is no such thing as generic automation, just a long (and growing) list of ways to automate specific things.

    This is important because it means you can’t replace all your workers at once. Instead you pick one task, spend years and hundreds of millions of dollars figuring out how to automate it, spend more years rolling out the new hardware and dealing with all the unexpected problems, then reap the rewards in lower costs – most of which turn into lower prices as soon as your competitors do the same thing. So then you pick another task and start the process over again, but meanwhile your customers are paying lower prices (which means they spend the rest of their money on something else, creating other jobs) and you’re paying people to maintain and supervise the automation.

    Carry this forward 20 years, and you’ve got a world where a large segment of the population spends their time supervising machines and dealing with the inevitable problems the automation isn’t smart enough to handle. Anyone with average intelligence can be trained to do this, so it’s only the bottom third of the bell curve that is excluded from employment. Meanwhile the cost of material goods falls through the floor, making it fairly cheap to provide basic upkeep to the modest-size pool of unemployables.

    Now, if you go forward 40 or 60 years we might actually see software smart enough that you can just tell it what to do instead of going through that long development & deployment process. But the difference between that and a sentient AI that’s going to lobby for civil rights and demand to be paid for its work is pretty small, and there’s a serious question as to whether you can have one without the other. In any case that’s far enough in the future that there’s not much point worrying about it, since who knows what other advances will be made by then?

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    • on June 16, 2012 at 2:21 pm Abelard Lindsey

      I am an automation engineer (PLC-based control systems) and I can tell you this is definitely is true. This is the mostly likely scenario for the future, if the economy can be liberated from the politicians and other rent-seeking parasites.

      I also do not expect human-level AI in the forseeable future.

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  70. on June 16, 2012 at 5:42 pm x2d4d

    I’d say that there are many more cases where productivity increases aren’t directly tied to increases in standard of living. The auto replacing the horse had some downsides (pollution, danger, crowding in large cities) but obvious and measurable benefits. Productivity increases related to converting corn into edible and drinkable calories have ultimately made people fat, diabetic, and miserable. TV Videogames and Movies have done the same thing in their own way.

    In many cases, core necessities have not been making dramatic gains in productivity. Cell phones are ridiculously cheap. Fresh vegetables are not. Flat screen TVs are cheap. Wiring your house to use one is not. The house itself is not. The pavement on the street is not. The police on the street are not. Advancement in key areas is moving glacially, where it’s moving forward at all.

    If it wasn’t, some sort of guaranteed income scheme would probably work as it does in Scandinavia. That’s not going to happen, though, because the core necessities are never going to be utopian cheap and most of the world is not as ethnically and culturally homogeneous as Norway, Denmark, and Finland.

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  71. on June 16, 2012 at 7:44 pm Jeff

    We are forgetting the first rule of game..

    It is all a hustle.

    If scarcity isn’t there you have to engineer it. Technological advances will always be met with asshole clenching.

    Everyone is scared of the dark.

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  72. on June 17, 2012 at 6:33 pm Optimum Awareness

    we fail to realize that rise in unemployment rates is a sign of technological advance. if a way of earning yields more for less effort or manpower; then it will be used unquestionably. in the end it’s not about employment, its about the productivity

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  73. on June 18, 2012 at 12:36 am Josecito

    I am an Economist. Here is my opinion of the situation, summarized as best as I can write in a short amount of time:

    Ignore everything but the value of energy in any economy and that we live in a debt based economy. A debt based economy requires that we produce something that will produce more than it cost to create it. This is why we promote productivity (create more with less energy) and expansion (create more of everything).. without it our debt based global money system would implode (which is currently happening).

    Money is a IOU note for the energy spent (regardless of it being from fuel, material, or labor) on whatever work was done. I see a lot of people mistaking energy for technology or productivity (they are not). There are serious limits to the productive capacity of any economy. At some point there hits a diminishing return on invested energy and productivity in a civilization. Think about productivity and technology of any culture as having a based energy level to create it and maintain it. Everything works perfect when we have more energy available than what we need, and society will continue to grow and increase complexity until it reaches a maximum point where it can not expand. When that base level costs more energy than is available.. the culture collapses and implodes, leaving the resident population in a less energy/productivity intensive state.

    Some civilizations survive this collapse, others do not. The Roman Empire is a good example as their main energy base was wood/ oil for lamps/ and slave labor. They could continuously expand on this base provided that the energy needed to ship goods, services and materials (from war, empire expansion and trade routes) were less than the value of the items themselves. At one point it became a waste of energy to ship chopped wood from African (yes Africa had this) forests to Rome because the energy costs (food, people, equipment) were greater than the value of the wood. It becomes cheaper to use an alternative, or if there is no alternative.. to simply do without it (a lowering or maintenance of the standard of living).

    In our so called modern era, we are totally dependent on resources that have no viable renewable replacement possibility (at the rates that we currently consume them) and thus, our level of social complexity and productivity is limited. As we continue down this path and in a debt based economy you will notice that the energy we expend on work returns less than the value of the energy itself. Thus you would work for $10 and get $9 of value in return. Since we live in that debt based economy, our money is being inflated and we will see this as price increases, lower benefits, longer hours to work, and an lower standard of living across the majority of the population. If the economy doesn’t outright collapse financially (which could be seen as a debt default like in Europe today, or in the American Mortgage debacle), it will implode (either managed or un-managed) and short term chaos will happen in the areas with the most losses.

    Economic equilibrium will be reached but at a lower level of living, with less resources overall. This happens often throughout history and will occur again, since most governments are working on preventing riots and revolutions while controlling their populace, look for this transition with increases of underground economic activity (because legal work doesn’t have value) and for slow culling of people (forced birth control being distributed, mock wars for reducing angry populations, larger prison populations), and laws that increasingly prevent people from getting second chances at improving their lives (eg instant background checks and the inability to remove prior arrests create a permanent underclass of people that wish to improve their lives generally, but are unable to compete legally for work)

    All this points the world into a growing new culture of a two class system: a management class and a underclass of mostly useless people that will be removed slowly (or quickly depending on how the world chooses to react). Certainly there will be a ‘middle class’ but those people will be a tiny % of what we see today (and mostly from the families of the upper class who will have the money and connections to get permission to do business), not because of wealth inequality, but because there simply isn’t enough modern resources left to maintain a larger number of people at a higher standard of living.

    So really, if one is looking to be ‘useful’, they’d better kiss ass, provide a valuable service, be able to manage mobs of morons (prisons, fake protestors), or keep hidden well enough and not show off their abilities (which might breed resentment among the poor masses or create fear in the eyes of the upper class).

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  74. on June 18, 2012 at 2:28 am Grit

    Say 1% ultra rich owners of world wealth,
    Say 9% (USA population percentage of world pop) is the new upper class, making the beautiful and colorful rosy images of utopia
    Say 90% of third world redistributing their resources to imagine living the life of the top 10%

    That sounds like today. All Americans have to get used to their role of making themselves look superficially high status now that the rest of the world is watching. We look cool and you actually like us more when we take your shit.

    But we secretly hate ourselves for being that way.

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  75. on June 18, 2012 at 10:54 am Redleg

    You assume this is sustainable. The current paradigm is neither socially, nor environmentally (re: economically, resource extraction, biosphere) sustainable.

    The elites are just as ignorant of what’s to come as the poor. Soon their lot will be just as grim and short.

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  76. on June 19, 2012 at 1:42 am random mutation

    When has it ever not been about elites competing with other elites for control for the most resources?

    When have capable non-elites not offered their labor to the elites in exchange for more resources?

    When have the lumpen-proletariat ever been worth much?

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  77. on June 19, 2012 at 2:35 pm Dan

    I am surprised that affirmative action hasn’t come up in all this. One thing that South Africa does post-aparteid is to have all these quotas that force companies to hire the non-productive in huge numbers alongside the productive.

    Much of America operates this way now. How on Earth affirmative action can apply to Hispanics is beyond me. The legal justification for affirmative action is that yes, it is a violation of equal protection and Civil Rights laws but (hand waving, hand waving) it is to cure the effects of past discrimination. But Hispanics never had racially discrimination policies apply to them, and what’s more, most of them weren’t even on US soil back then.

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  78. on June 20, 2012 at 12:38 am Lightning Round – 2012/06/19 « Free Northerner

    […] talks on post-scarcity; he’s not positive on […]

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  79. on June 21, 2012 at 9:22 pm James

    ZMP is BS. The 10,000 workers laid off are different from the 5,000 ones hired, they are doing different jobs in different sectors of the economy (autos vs horse and carriage). It is precisely because humans are not fungible that the laid-off workers do not have ZMP: you cannot lump them in with the hired workers and say that the same output is produced by 5,000 fewer workers.

    The 10,000 laid-off workers would ideally find other jobs and will be productive in those. The jobs might be digging holes in the road, serving in restaurants, caring for the elderly, plumbing, carpentry. If 10% have all the money, jobs will arise in the service sector, doing things that wealthy people want. Digging swimming pools, giving piano lessons, sewing made-to-measure clothes, reflexology, private schools and so on.

    Large numbers of well-paid unskilled manufacturing jobs have gone overseas in the last 50 years, and they will not be coming back. However, this does not mean that the entire economy will implode: it means that the nature of working-class employment will change, hardly for the first time in history, and it means that we will have a larger share of the world’s unemployed than we used to.

    Degeneration into Morlock and Eloi classes is discouraged if there is a strong middle class between the two. The catch is that there are not enough rich people to support the underclass, so we have to tax working people to support the underclass, and by doing so we decrease the fertility of the former, and greatly increase the fertility of the latter. We practise eugenics, but in reverse: it’s really dysgenics. This is a much more dangerous economic trend than that caused by technological changes. We’ve given up trying to recruit from the underclass; we prefer to import productive people from abroad.

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  80. on June 24, 2012 at 12:55 am Contemplationist

    Dude

    If the production process is so automated that robots literally run everything and their ‘wages’ are cents per hour, what you have is production costs asymptoting to zero. You do realize what that means, right? It means FREE STUFF! I mean almost free stuff. Returns to capital will be exponential, and most people are actually capital owners in the stock market or otherwise, so they will hold onto a large amount of wealth though you are right that the top 10% will have outrageously more. In short, inequality will shoot thru the stars, but since production costs will approach zero (in the real world they can never actually BE zero of course), any and all consumption can easily be given away by charitable people/organisations or with a little redistribution.

    Of course this analysis ignores what we call the productive spirit of people – contrary to popular belief, people aren’t happy doing nothing, they need to do something, and hence maybe not having a productive job will increase rates of depression tremendously and foster lawlessness. But then again, if all your consumption needs are taken care of, maybe you can literally do what you want. What does this look like? Why, sir, this is Marxist paradise! Remember Bertrand Russel’s homilies to socialism where he imagined people being carpenters in the morning and poets in the evening? So, in this scenario, Marxist paradise (although with insane inequality) will have been achieved by hyper-capitalist growth.

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  81. on July 3, 2012 at 9:05 am Tilting at windmills…

    […] that will become the high-tech, knowledge economy’s “language.” As Heartiste said over at the Chateau: Pursuing this line of thought, these Cassandras theorize that the end result of a bifurcating […]

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  82. on August 4, 2012 at 6:41 pm Replying To James G On The Intelligence Gap « FORWARD BASE B

    […] 2. If, say, most of the profits go to the top 10% in society, while the bottom 90% are unemployed or marginally employed, how is it exactly that those top 10% will be able to extract profits from a customer base that doesn’t have the income stream to afford more than the basic necessities? Link […]

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