Or that it can work.
Anyways, how did I miss this? Scientists actually reviewed Mystery’s accelerated seduction blueprint, and what they discovered will surely wither further the already diminutive hearts of manboobs, freaks, monsters, feminists, losers, dweebs, omegas, white knights, traditionalists and slithery “academics” pretending to be feminists in order to score hipster chick poon: The concepts underlying game strategies are factually grounded, and game works!
The dating mind: Evolutionary psychology and the emerging science of human courtship
ABSTRACT
In the New York Times bestselling book The Game: Penetrating the Secret Society of Pickup Artists (2006), the world was granted its first exclusive introduction to the steadily growing dating coach and pick-up artist community. Many of its most prominent authorities claim to use insights and information gleaned both through first-hand experience as well as empirical research in evolutionary psychology. One of the industry’s most well-respected authorities, the illusionist Erik von Markovik, promotes a three-phase model of human courtship: Attraction, building mutual Comfort and Trust, and Seduction. The following review argues that many of these claims are in fact grounded in solid empirical findings from social, physiological and evolutionary psychology. Two texts which represent much of this literature are critiqued and their implications discussed.
Jesus H. Christmas, this entire paper reads like it was ripped straight from Chateau Heartiste archives. And what was that muffled sound in the distance? Ah yes, the pffft of aneurysms popping in the heads of game denialists posting hater comments from under their beds.
This review deserves a detailed look, so let’s begin.
For the present analysis, we examined several popular works from the [dating coach and pick-up artist] Community. The Community consists broadly of heterosexual men who market various tactics, techniques, and methods to meet, date, and ultimately seduce women. Both published books and online forums offer opportunities to garner and share this information with a wide audience of people interested in improving their dating and romantic success.
Two main texts were chosen for this analysis. The first text, entitled The Mystery Method: How to Get Beautiful Women into Bed (Markovik, 2007), is widely regarded as one of the most important works in the Community. The second text, written by Markovik’s protégé and New York Times columnist Neil Strauss, also known on online forums as Style, is entitled Rules of the Game (Strauss, 2009). The two texts were selected mainly for the authors’ prominence and popularity in the Community.
I don’t have a problem with the two texts the review authors chose to analyze. [Disclosure: I never read Rules of the Game, so my opinion is based on what others have told me about it.] You can argue for this or that seduction manual or PUA forum compilation, but if you had to pick only two sources, these two would qualify as legitimate encapsulations of the major pick-up strategies.
The general starting point for much of the Community’s literature, whether explicitly stated or not, often begins with Trivers’ (1972) theory of parental investment.
According to Trivers’ (1972), the sex with higher parental investment (i.e., time and energy spent in gestation and rearing offspring) will be choosier with respect to mate selection. As a consequence, women very rarely accept propositions for casual sex with strangers (Voracek, Hofhansl and Fisher, 2005), typically imposing a much more careful and rigorous screening process before consenting to sexual activity (Grammer, 1989; Pawlowski and Dunbar, 1999; Pawlowski and Dunbar, 2001). On the other hand, human males as the biologically less investing sex, often have little to lose by mating with as many females as possible (Buss and Schmitt, 1993). Indeed, Schmitt et al. (2001) have shown that men desire more lifetime sex partners, seek sexual intercourse sooner, and are frequently more motivated to seek casual sex than are women.
In the absence of a clear understanding of the biological bases of such differences, the courtship process and ensuing relationship dynamics can often appear confusing, frustrating and even debilitating. Such conflicts of interest in men and women’s sexual strategies (Buss and Schmitt, 1993), often coined “the war of the sexes”, can be a significant cause of conflict and ultimately failure to find and maintain a lasting long-term relationship. However, as we will argue, this conflict is not inevitable. The knowledge of our evolved sexual strategies gives us significant capability to improve interactions between the sexes by choosing appropriate actions and deactivating others – ultimately reducing conflict between men and women. In this respect, we argue that when properly and ethically understood, the dating and seduction industry, despite its provocative label and origins outside of academia, is founded on solid empirical research as well as first-hand courtship and relationship experience. Ultimately, it is our suggestion that an informed appraisal of this information will ultimately help to lessen conflict and improve dating and relationships between men and women.
Knowledge of female sexual nature and game can improve relationships between men and women? Now a whoosh is heard. The game haters just spontaneously combusted.
Direct conversational openers typically begin with a very bold and straightforward proclamation, directly to one’s prospective romantic interest. For instance, a typical example of this type of opener might be: Hi, I saw you standing there, thought you looked attractive, and wanted to say hello. While apparently awkward or unimpressive to the inexperienced, many Community enthusiasts will swear by the ability of this approach to generate instant attraction in a prospective romantic interest. And indeed, there may in fact be psychological research to legitimate this claim. For instance, research has shown that expressions of social dominance (Sadalla et al. 1987), social risk-taking (Wilke, Hutchinson, Todd, and Kruger, 2006), and courageousness (Farthing, 2005; Kelly and Dunbar, 2001) are often attractive to women (as such an approach would clearly seem to demonstrate).
A direct opener will signal social dominance, self confidence, and high status by its mere use. The brazen opener is itself the alpha male signaler. My suggestion when using direct openers is to be sure your body language is sufficiently alpha to be congruent with the words you are saying to the girl. Otherwise, you will quickly get blown out, because incongruence during the opener is usually the death knell for any seduction attempt.
The second type of conversation starter, referred to as an indirect conversational opener, often begins with an off-handed opinion or question, at first merely designed to capture attention. For example, indirect openers often include apparently random queries such as, Excuse me- a friend and I were debating something. Could I have a female opinion on how a man should treat a lady on a first date? (Markovik, 2007; Strauss, 2009). In stark contrast to a direct opener, the specific content of an indirect opener is often irrelevant; the more important objective is often to smoothly get a conversation started.
The big advantage of indirect openers is that you can generally hit on hotter women than you can with direct openers, because the latter tends to elevate the risk of getting insta-rejected if the girl happens to dislike your look, style, walk or wiry nose hairs, all of which are traits you display before you’ve even opened your mouth. Plus, hotter girls expect to get hit on more, so indirect is better for catching them off-guard, and for settling your nerves. (This rule of thumb breaks down when you get to the 9s and 10s of womanhood, who are so intimidatingly hot to most men that they paradoxically get hit on less frequently than their looks would suggest they do.)
[T]he conversational content at this point generally moves into interesting personality conveying material, such as humor, an exciting personal anecdote, a fun game, or even a simple piece of stage magic, intended to solicit attraction from a prospective romantic interest (Markovik, 2007; Strauss, 2009). Markovik (2007) describes the advertisement of such qualities as “Demonstrations of Higher Value” (DHVs), which it is claimed, cause an increase in mate value and create attraction, thus providing the person access to more desirable mates. And indeed, psychological research has shown that many of these qualities, when well-presented, can often be quite attractive to the opposite sex.
For example, in a recent sample of UK personal advertisements, women rated charming social skills, wittiness, and a good sense of humor as among the most desirable traits in a prospective date (Pawlowski and Dunbar, 1999; Pawlowski and Dunbar, 2001), which would seem to reinforce the claims made by the community (Markovik, 2007; Strauss, 2009).
“Looks are everything.” – some loser justifying his inaction.
The Community further advocates a peculiar strategy known as “pre-selection” which is claimed to be often useful in crowded social gatherings (Markovik, 2007). Pre- selection is a strategy whereby a man in a public gathering will establish an innocent acquaintanceship with an attractive woman, gaining her trust, comfort, and friendship, only to later use her presence by his side to attract other surrounding women that are actually the intended object of his desire (Markovik, 2007). The phenomenon where females will copy or imitate the preferences of other females for a particular male mate has been documented in a wide variety of species, and is commonly referred to by evolutionary biologists as mate choice copying (Bennett, Lim and Gilbert, 2008; Dugatkin, 1992; Freed-Brown and White, 2009). Moreover, there is now increasing evidence to suggest that such strategies, whether intentionally practiced or consistently understood by those using them, are also found in humans (Eva and Wood, 2006; Hill and Buss, 2008; Place, Todd, Penke and Asendorpf, 2010).
A hot female friend who is willing to be your pivot is worth her weight in fluffy stuffed animals.
The second reputed phase of human courtship, building mutual Comfort and Trust, further seems to have a significant degree of support by various psychological research studies. Firstly, once Attraction has been established, community literature advocates the importance of taking the time to build rapport, comfort and trust before proceeding with seduction (Markovik, 2007; Strauss, 2009). Indeed, psychological research has shown that many particular moral virtues are not only sexually attractive, but also relationship-stabilizing (see Miller 2007, for a review).
The popular game forums focus more on attraction than on comfort building, and the reason is likely because most men are naturally worse at the former. But in my experience, I see a lot of men dropping the ball during the comfort stage. I can’t count how many times I’ve witnessed some girl smiling broadly when she first meets a guy, and then watch as her smile fades to a grimace the more he talks. (I like to jump in at these opportune moments, because girls are… how shall I say?… more pliable to my charms when left in such a dispiriting state by some other inept man. You could call this strategy, Attraction by Comparison. It’s a productive strategy because most men are inept with women.)
Trust and comfort is often further established through the use of kinesthetic touch, or what the Community often refers to simply as “kino” (Markovik, 2007; Strauss, 2009). For instance, from a study of courtship behavior in singles’ bars, Moore (1985) found that incidental touching, prolonged eye contact, swaying the upper body towards a prospective romantic interest while talking, and a number of other tactical devices designed to attract attention were frequently implemented.
If you showed me twenty men hitting on twenty women, and all I could see was how many times the men touched the women, knowing nothing else about their interactions I could predict with stunning accuracy which of those men would be getting the lay.
The final reputed phase of human courtship, Seduction, begins once mutual Attraction and Comfort and Trust have been established between two individuals. For instance, women typically require more time and intimacy to develop the same amount of passion as men (Baumeister and Bratslavsky, 1999). Consistent with psychological research, the Community often advocates what is known at the “seven-hour rule”; the idea being that a woman typically needs a minimum of seven cumulative hours of rapport- building in order to develop a strong emotional and intellectual connection (including shared interests, shared values, and a deep inter-subjective understanding) before consenting to sexual activity (Markovik, 2007; Strauss, 2009). In order to accomplish this objective, the community encourages a process of mutual self-disclosure, whereby each gets to know the other person on a very deep and intimate level (Markovik, 2007; Strauss, 2009), reinforcing psychological research on the development of relationships (Collins and Miller, 1994) and compassionate love (Hatfield and Rapson, 1993).
Alpha males are not stone walls. They understand that there will be a give and take in any seduction. They just know that it’s better to give a little less than they take.
In conclusion, it would seem clear that there is in fact a substantive degree of psychological research to support many claims made by the Community. The three reputed phases of courtship, Attraction, building mutual Comfort and Trust, and Seduction, are supported by a significant and steadily growing literature based in physiological, social and evolutionary psychology research. […]
In light of these findings, it is equally important to note that many of the strategies advocated by the community are not currently supported by peer-reviewed literature. For example, one particular strategy known as “peacocking,” (in dubious reference to Zahavi’s (1975) handicap principle) involves wearing very ostentatious clothing specifically designed to exploit evolved cues for what women find attractive (Markovik, 2007). Although research has shown that women generally find social status attractive in men (Buss, 1989; Pawlowski and Dunbar, 2001), thus far there is no direct evidence in support of this particular behavior. A similar strategy, known as “negging”, has been claimed to increase a male’s attractiveness by demonstrating he has high standards (Markovik, 2007). For example, a male might exclaim, Wow, those are great fingernails! Are they real? Oh, no? Well, they still look nice. Consistent with this argument, Eastwick, Finkel, Mochon, and Ariely (2007) have shown that men who appear to have high standards are considered more attractive than males who do not; nevertheless, there is currently no direct evidence that “negging” is universally effective. An important area for future research would be to more closely analyze a broader spectrum of community literature and determine the scientific veracity of unsubstantiated claims.
Hopefully, academic feminists and sniveling manboobs will retreat to their cuntcaves under my assault of brutal mockery and real sociologists can in future conduct studies examining the effectiveness of other, specific game and seduction tactics, such as the aforementioned negs, and even pick-up and relationship techniques CH has introduced and described here, including “agree and amplify” and “instilling dread“.
Maybe, just maybe, they will even have the courage one day to study the peculiar allure assorted assholes, douchebags, psychopaths and jerks exert on attractive women.
[T]here may be important unrecognized ethical implications from using portions of this material. For instance, it has been argued that the initiation of touch or “kino” throughout the courtship process and alleged prioritization of physical over verbal consent may at times problematize interpretations of consent (Denes, 2011). To this end, we do contend that such material has the potential for abuse and urge caution with the use of the Community’s material, especially in the context of short-term relationships where sexual activity may be the sole objective. On the other hand, within the context of helping people to initiate long-term, stable relationships, we argue that informed male behaviors are not so unlike women attempting to manipulate perceived attractiveness through the use of perfume, cosmetics, clothing, liposuction and cosmetic surgery, and thus disrupt normal mate choice by men (Roberts, Miner and Shackelford, 2010). Therefore, if such practices allow men to approach, attract, and connect with women in similar fashion, we wholeheartedly endorse the ethical practice of such materials for establishing meaningful long-term relationships.
I believe it is this blog, this seducer’s stronghold, this digital palace guarding a horde of priceless knowledge that pierces the puzzle of pussy, which was at the forefront of elucidating for the skeptical masses how game could be useful for long-term relationships and marriage. Chateau Heartiste makes it impossible for knee-jerk haters and ignoramuses to caricature the science and art of streamlined seduction and learned charisma as the domain of frat boys spitting corny lines, or oily club hounds sidling up to skanks for a shot at the bathroom BJ.
Not that there’s anything wrong with bathroom BJs, but the caricature has been demolished, and now the haters must face the gut-punch reality that game works, and works well for men from all socioeconomic backgrounds and all romantic circumstance.
One day, perhaps sooner than the haters would dare contemplate in their most fevered nightmares, this formula:

will come to be seen as revolutionary to the human sciences as E=MC² was to the physical sciences.

First.
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Now that the science is out there, how long before many uncomfortable truths will have to be (begrudgingly) acknowledged?
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Lots of people don’t believe in evolutionary psychology, so…a while yet.
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YaReally has been vindicated.
Just link to this post when the trolls try to troll.
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Agreed. Funny, how right now I’m listening to Coyote’s yap. Synchronicity at it’s finest.
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May the gods bless Mystery, our prophet. And H, our savior.
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now lets not go crazy.
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I’m also waiting for Science to prove that GBFM is right.
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GBFM is still waiting to prove that Science is right.
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GBFM, like God, is supernatural and beyond the ken of mere science.
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He is, in fact, what Science seeks to prove.
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disprove*
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Yes. At least some of the class is paying attention.
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Sigh.
Science can’t prove anything. Science can only disprove. Our current body of scientific knowledge consists of what hasn’t yet been dis-proven. Stuff like general relativity and thermodynamics and laminar-flow aerodynamics. Even descriptions like the Standard Model, which we know is wrong but haven’t been able to formally disprove and replace, at least yet.
But this is social and behavioral studies. I won’t call it “science” because it’s not. That doesn’t mean it’s not a valid field of study. I do mean that you can’t approach social and behavioral studies with anything resembling a legitimate scientific method, so it’s not science.
Anyway, none of this means that game isn’t a valid take on human behavior. It is. As we often say here: game works, bitches. But you can’t prove that with science, any more than you can prove anything with science.
Since I’m harping about science, credentials are PhD in nuclear physics, MS in computer science. My day job is improving science literacy through education. It’s a thankless job, but some one has to try.
[Heartiste: Yes, I’m aware of the pedantic technicalities. Chalk it up to artistic license.]
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This guy might intrest you:
http://www.youtube.com/user/bgaede
Check out his first video, going forward after that:
That guy taught me that nothing can be proven.
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A point is the recognition of more than one point existing in relation to the original point in question, thus creating a line out of what points we point out are pointer’s to the first abstract point noted. A point is a Yud. Yod. Dot. This is like saying Word’s are letter’s, and theories were theorized therefore there is no logic in the formulation of sarcastic understandings of reality as an existentially poignant joke prompted real by observable proofs marked point by point in inked brain’s, wherein everything we learn points to the trajectory of what line space-time phenomena as letter’s and syllogisms may be described within existing outside of Space and Time according to tripartite dialogues provided scholastically until proven ineffective in meta-theological discussion of such pointless directives original undertaking prompted, mathematically or skeptically or scientifically or because God made us do it. Which means absolutely this.
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@ yaser
“That guy taught me that nothing can be proven.”
“Nothing? Not even his claim that nothing can be proven? Why then accept it?
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Everything is taken on faith.
I take on faith that he is right in that nothing can be proven.
Synonyms for “faith” in this context: axiomatically, hypothetically, a primitive notion.
Everything stands on me having at least faith in my sanity and correctness of my perception.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evil_demon
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This guy taught you how to set up straw men and knock them own.
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“down” not “own.”
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He did?
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I actually agree with you. A lot of the evidence in this article is the same self-reporting “lets ask people in a classroom to write down how they think they’d react in a situation” stuff that I roll my eyes at when they say “we asked 100 women if they like guys to wear suits”.
But the anti-gamers and Aunt Sue types have been using studies like that to argue against Game for years so this is decent ammo to say “if you acknowledge that those studies are a legit form of research, then this must be too. If you say this is bullshit then so were your studies and now we’re back to square one where you’ll have to trust the guys who are going out daily reporting their results.”
Either way it’s a win to me. 🙂
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Hey yareally I’d like to ask you something via e-mail. If you have time, send me a message.
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It’s not pedantry and these are not technicalities. Your religious proselytizing on behalf of science as faith risks consigning your corpus to obscurity. No one is saying you need to adopt better epistemological positions so much as you need to strike the tone of a more modest epistemology. You otherwise get lost in the weeds of studies and theories (that Southern Man rightly identifies as flimsy) in the search for attribution and, worse, validation.
Speaking the unadorned truth is your strong suit, and so is artful rhetoric. Continue that and you will always attract an eager audience. Men assert themselves, they slash Gordian knots. They do not seek approval from higher authorities — the “science” community — which is only authoritative in our age 1) by virtue of that community’s prior assertion, which you credulously (submissively/femininely) accept, and 2) because we are living in a time of pliant faggots and women.
You speak of manly things but act like an intellectual submissive in the presence of dorks with labcoats. Still worse, you don’t seem to notice the incongruity.
Listen to YaReally, the playa from Missouri: Don’t tell — show me.
Matt
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@ Heartiste
[Yes, I’m aware of the pedantic technicalities. Chalk it up to artistic license.]
You need not apologize to old school philosophy of science. Read this:
http://www.amazon.com/Logical-Leap-Induction Physics/dp/0451230051/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1357191912&sr=1-1&keywords=David+Harriman
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We’ll call it:
A quantified, observed reality of aggregate results that have been recorded and articulated for men to understand what male behaviors are the most efficient and effective to meet, attract, seduce and maintain relationships with women of the highest degree of beauty and fertility.
Calling it a ‘science’ to a professional of your credentials obviously doesn’t work. Whether that label is a correct representation or not is indeed an argument that’d be interesting to explore. However I think it’s important to distinguish game as being rooted in science, and applied as an art form. But for purposes of educating others new to the material- it’s a science.
Here’s a rhetorical: If by using scientific method we disprove that ‘beta’ behavior attracts high demand women, than doesn’t science prove that game works?
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@ Southern Man
“Since I’m harping about science, credentials are PhD in nuclear physics, MS in computer science. My day job is improving science literacy through education. It’s a thankless job, but some one has to try.”
By teaching that reason basically is impotent? Yeah, we really need more of that in this day and age of unbridled rationality…
Again. I recommend The Logical Leap: Induction in Physics by David Harriman for another view entirely of this issue.
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What I could see that women choose, or not, a certain man just by looking at it the first time.
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The concepts underlying seduction strategies are sound. But the popular jargon used to describe the dynamic is…. unfortunate.
To borrow a bit from Matt King, if this website’s proprietors started taking their oeuvre a bit more seriously, starting by dropping such unfortunately chosen words as “game”, “alpha/beta”, etc, maybe there wouldn’t be so much controversy.
[Heartiste: People’s discomfort with shorthand terms of illumination is not my moral crisis.]
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I remember Strauss’ “The Game” being derided by several female reviewers as “creepy”, even though he wisely gave it a chick-flick ending. “Creepy” seems to be the invariable epithet for a beta who violates the caste system and tries to jump the prison wall. Likewise, Mystery’s book tried to be P.C. by such things as replacing “bitch shield” with “protection shield”, which was of course wasted on the legions of enraged feminazis posting venomous reviews. If you tried to apply different terms to all this stuff, I suspect you’d just end up on a euphemism treadmill. Game often involves dragging the hamster out of his dark fetid cage and into the light of day, which tends to photosynthetically transform him into a rabid gore-stained tiger.
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“If you tried to apply different terms to all this stuff, I suspect you’d just end up on a euphemism treadmill.”
This is why we generally don’t sanitize it. Now that PUA has been dragged into MSM analysis there IS some toning down of harsher terms here and there, but that’s kind of a necessary evil to avoid being demonized across the board.
Back in the underground days though, terms like “bitch shield” and mottos like “make the ho say no” helped shake AFC newbies out of their social conditioning and start waking up to reality.
We cared more about getting results, converting new guys, and building the knowledge base, than caring about whether we were politically correct or offensive.
And that’s why we made such fast progress. Sanitizing bogs everything down. Now that the majority of the work has been done to gather the knowledge, we can start sanitizing it to make it digestible to the MSM…some companies are already attempting this. 10 years from now there’ll probably be a bunch of “friendly” terminology for all this lol
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You don’t switch out jargon for something more politically correct. You replace terms with demonstration and allow names of those demonstrations develop organically. Forcing nominal recognition of a phenomenon before demonstrating it is pushing on a rhetorical string. The “manosphere” is awful about this.
The essence of a thing is not created upon its naming; it is discovered and distinguished from all other things through the name. “Existence precedes essence” is postmodern existentialist garbage that infects intellectual dilettantes playing at profundity, thereby infecting us all.
Matt
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wow.
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Women now love the word “creepy” since dweeb, geek and nerd have been co-opted by them to mean a certain brand of hipster cool.
But I’ll tell you what’s really creepy: cat ladies, angry fat women, women who destroy their bodies with tattoos, women who have ridden the carousel dozens of times… In other words, women are using “creepy” as a form of projection.
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In other words, women are using “creepy” as a form of projection.
There’s a school of thought which holds that almost everything that almost everyone ever says is just some form or another of projection.
Getting inside another person’s head – trying your hardest to “grok” what might be transpiring in that foreign gray matter – is really, really difficult.
It’s so much easier to assume that everyone else is just like you, and forever thereafter to never even experience the slightest little twang of curiosity which might cause you to question that assumption.
I guess that most of “game” theory involves trying to anticipate what a chick is going to be thinking before she even thinks it, and then to use that anticipatory ability to push her thought processes in a direction which would be most beneficial to your, ah, “purposes”.
[Which then begs the question of whether there might be a class of strong-willed chicks out there who would be relatively impervious to “game” techniques – probably high-IQ chicks, from strong, stable 2-parent families, with very masculine fathers who play a prominent role in their lives – i.e. the kind of chicks you might actually want TO MARRY.]
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Jargon is popular in academic circles and cults/secret societies. In the former, terminology is a substitute for thinking in an ethos that worships thinking; in the latter, terminology is a test of loyalty, where the uninitiated/unindoctrinated can be more easily identified and dismissed.
Those who can speak plainly do speak plainly. Simple communication is more effective with more people. Those who don’t are concealing their artlessness, resigning to an intellectual complexity they cannot reduce, or are overly concerned about flaunting their insider status among presumptive insiders.
In “manosphere” forums, jargon takes the place of inquiry while allowing the appearance of smart conclusions without ever having to assert a creed: X is Y because I said it is. Instead they borrow terms from other patois (“alpha” from ethology; “game” from negro culture [?]) as catch-all phrases which serve as gatekeepers against criticism. Rather than engaging and demonstrating the error of outsider opposition, they can just say, “Poor mangina, you don’t understand [insert jargon term here].”
Jargon isn’t proof of weak rhetoric but it is an indication. Lingo-dependent ideas can never go mainstream so long as they are expressed solely with insider language. That’s the point in most cases: somewhere in the back of the purveyors’ heads they know that their half-baked theories will not survive genuine scrutiny and are therefore not ready prime time.
There are no “shortcuts” if you want to advance ideas through rhetoric. Concepts cannot remain impressionistic musings from designated community mouthpieces; rather they need dialectical testing. Flaws are exposed the minute you allow ideas past the perimeter of the Branch Davidian compound.
Matt
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Don’t take this as a diss.
“Those who can speak plainly do speak plainly.”
You command a very broad vocabulary, “ethos”, “terminology”, “artlessness”.
Vocabulary expands when new words are formed. Weren’t they jargon once?
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New terms are formed organically, when a neologism congeals around a concept through mutual repetitive use. Those who invent terms and declare X hereafter shall be known as Y are peculiar and dorkish and overestimate their influence over the broad process of definition. When a community does it, it is not about definitional precision so much as it is about enforcing the boundaries of the community. It’s a Dungeons and Dragons tic.
Coining specific terms is helpful when they are le mot juste. But when originator(s) take prideful ownership of the terms, they force-spread jargon out of ego rather than semantic usefulness. Initiates, rather than engaging ideas, then become gatekeepers separating true believers from the uninitiated, and membership becomes preferred to plain-spoken wisdom. Hence jargon is a distinguishing feature (and limiting factor) of cults.
anon above is bringing this idea to the host’s attention. He doesn’t have an elaborate theory like me, he just feels something is amiss. He is correct. He does not — most men do not — want to adopt the peculiarities of a marginal community before he can engage their otherwise interesting ideas. He would risk marginalizing himself before he knew what it was about.
And sure, “Vocabulary expands when new words are formed.” They also expand when you educate yourself. There are over a million distinct words in the English language. One of them is “neologism,” which you could have employed above had you been familiar with it. We wouldn’t have to wait for an insider to privilege us with secret knowledge of “neologism’s” definition; we could just look it up in a common resource like the dictionary, rather than an exclusive handbook.
Combine that with the fact that “There is nothing new under the sun” (including that phrase, which is 2200 years old, from Ecclesiastes 1:9), and the informed man will see verbal “shortcuts” for what they are: substitutes which replace the hard work of investigation and explanation, and signifiers which create barriers around initiates rather than persuasive rhetoric for the persuadable.
Matt
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I love H’s black comments.
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That’s sniper shit right there!
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[Heartiste: People’s discomfort with shorthand terms of illumination is not my moral crisis.]
Oh SNAP. I Mean Oh CALFRESH.
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So you’re gripe is the words make you feel bad? Or you think it’s what causes “so much controversey”?
Sure, some of the terminology could be ‘optimized’ for public appeal, or PC, or whatever.
The taxonomy of terms that has been created and evolved are used to transfer knowledge of the subject matter from teacher to student.
The controversey of game exists because its what I like to call “dark knowledge.” It is prone to invoke strong emotion out of anyone when discussed. It will always be controversial regardless if we sesame street words are used or not.
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@ anon
“maybe there wouldn’t be so much controversy”
Game is part of a moral revolution. Controversy is good.
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But on topic, it’s really great to see who the efforts of CH and others are starting to pay of. You guys really tought me a bunch, so thanks.
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Funny, I was just saying something similar on Badger’s comments last week:
Game is a subset of broader social dynamics. Calling game a broader name such as charm, or another commenter’s submission, charisma, easily makes the point.
Game is also Social MMA. It combines Anthropology, Psychology, and other Social Science and Humanities disciplines. Mystery’s greatest contribution to furthering game was probably the addition of Evol Psych. To think that dorky gamers everywhere are getting laid, standing on the shoulders of such intellectual giants Richard Dawkins (leading Evol Psych evangelist and father of meme theory), Edward Hall (father of Framing), Susan Blackmore (mother of meme theory), Jerome Barkow (academic who married Evol Psych andn Sex), David Buss (academic who popularized Barkow’s ideas in “The Evolution of Desire”), etc.
Nearly all game concepts can be traced to these old stodgers. Dark Triad? Check. Style and Mystery’s Peacocking? Check. Real Social Dynamic’s Body Language Nuance’s? Check. The Mirror Neuron? Check. Tyler D’s Eye Contact management? Check. Psycho/Social Dominace? Check.
Moving from silly to ironic, is the embrace of game by Conservative Christian bloggers.. Aunt Haley and Sunshine Mary (whom I love) have armies of dedicated readers and commenters using game theory to tear down satanic feminism, rid the church of pussification, and re-build traditional Godly chaeuvinism (sp?). Perhaps the end justifies the means, but they are somewhat ignorantly, IMHO, and ironically, using the hardest of hardcore athiest orthodoxy, that being evolution, to do so.
God bless em.
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As a practicing muslim, i have also found game theory to remove the cognitive dissonace that accepting feminist theory and an Islamic lifestyle brings. True, i never embraced feminist theory due to having an alternative, but it still muddied the waters and did hid some basic truth.
The reality, the principles that game are built on, are the same principles that sharia law (abrahamic patriarchy) is built on, something that CH have vaguely acknowledged from time to time.
There are muslims who are both pro and against evolution. In fact, muslims were writing about evolution way more than 500 years before Darwin.
Below, my Swedish article about it, still contains mainly english source material:
http://y4ser.wordpress.com/2012/01/18/muslimer-och-evolution/
The main difference between PUA’s and practicing muslims is that as a muslim, i have a duty towards God to uphold his commandments, while PUA’s are nihilists and therefore embrace the road that they know leads to perdition.
Truth is, muslims have even easier that christisans to indentify with game theory:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad's_wives
In practice, there is nothing in sharia law that prevents me from sleeping with as many women as i can atract, except for the Idda’h period, meaning, the period that a woman must wait before she can mary a new man.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iddah
However, Islam is balanced with a greater sence of responsibility.
PUA’s are nihilists due to the satanic post-christianity (NWO) that have taken hold in west. It is destroying everything, and many PUA’s are resigned to it, and just deceide to enjoy the ride.
But as the hosts at CH have acknowledged several times, it’s not a recipe for a healty civilization.
Now, don’t take this as an arrogant diss. I admire anyone who has as their mission to combat untruth, and i concede that given your worldvidew, nihilism is not unjustified – maybe even justified.
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sorry for multiple post, i was trying to figure out what was causing it to be blocked.
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Did you comment on an article about the Freedom of Information Act elsewhere? I swear I just read you a few minutes ago.
Can you explain for me the supposed rock or kabaa or whatever it’s called?
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Idk.
From what i was told, the Kabaa was built by Abraham. I don’t know much about the stone.
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its big and black.
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and white people are afraid of it.
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To attract women you’d have to meet them first. How would that be feasible in a traditional muslim society? I would assume the rules of courtship are rather strict, given that they were drawn up many centuries ago.
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Islamic source texts are interpreted into jurisprudence, and cultures are built on a combination of that and whatever culture there was before.
Thus, the Arabic and Iranian cultures cultures differ. In Iran, it’s unthinkable to have multiple wives, if you want to be highly regarded in society. Almost nobody have multiple wives there. In Saudi Arabia, many oil sheiks have multiple wives.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibn_Saud_of_Saudi_Arabia#Personal_life
With this, i want to explain that there are several different cultures that could be labeled islamic.
My (iranian) wives parents saw eachother for the first time… if i recall correctly, a month after they got married. Yeah. Of course, it’s a totally different culture now. More westernized.
Most muslim agree that sharia mandates that both the wife and her (male) guardian agree to a weeding before it can take place. If the guardian disagrees on unreasonable grounds, the woman can challenge his refusal through court.
Thus, in most islamic countries, most (religious) virgin girls except you to make a formal request for marriage to their guardian. If the woman has high nara, you can expect the guardian to demand loads of yamo.
Previously, it would be hard to directly attract a girl, since male-female interactions would be very limited. But nowdays, it’s easier since the introduction of state sponsored education.
In westen countries, muslims live with western culture. So even though they still are bound by sharia law, they live in a non-sharia law based culture.
That mean that the women are immensely easier to attract, and that can be done without breaking sharia law.
It’s not commonly known, but islamic law does not restrict sex to permanent marriage.
Sunni have what is called “misyar” marriages:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikah_Misyar
Those are marriages were the wife and husband give up different obligations and rights. In a “misyar” it can also be implicitly understood that the husband will divorce the wife later on, although according to sunni interpretation, no such date may be explicitly stated.
In fact, a marriage contract is religiously valid even if not reported to the state:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikah_'urfi
According to shi’a interpretation, a muslim can contract a girl for temporary marriage. In such a marriage, a fixed time is agreed upon, and at the end of the time, the marriage is simply annulled.
Even though the term “temporary marriage” could sound oxymoronic to a westerner, it shows the difference in how islamic law and orthodox Christianity define the term marriage.
Misyar marriage and temporary marriage have very restricted roles in muslim cultures, due to the sharia demand of the guardian agreeing to the marriage. But in a non-islamic country were the father is brainwashed to think that he is at fault if he gives a damn….
Ill also add a sunni naration from the time when the Prophet Muhammad lived:
“We contracted temporary marriage giving a handful of (tales or flour) as a dower during the lifetime of Allah’s Messenger and durnig the time of [name of post-muhammed ruler] until [name of post-muhammed ruler] forbade it in the case of [name].”
Nowdays, it’s not unusual to see muslims who rediscover islamic law to notice that islamic law in fact does not demand monogamy.
http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/showthread.php?65451-Mutah-allowed-according-to-Sahih-Bukhari
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RG3,
No one should ever have to think only the atheist/evolution-based gamers have cornered the market on understanding the nuances of human nature, particularly female sexual nature.
The reason Aunt Haley, SSM, and moreso Dalrock connect the dots of game with the Scriptures is because, say what you want about the veracity of the Good Book: no one can argue against what it has to say about the truth of human nature. A cursory reading of the Book of Proverbs speaks more truth about female sexual nature than what the run-of-the-mill ‘leaders’ of Churchianity will ever reveal about women. And that, friend, is the real irony of it all.
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“RG3” wrote:
ROFLcopter. Now I know you’re not the real Robert Griffin III, the God-fearing Republican football star/cornball negro.
Your handle should be “Belichick” instead. His credulous nihilism/quasi-Satan worship is more your speed.
Matt
P.S. The name “R*dsk*ns” is horribly racist.
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Who would have thought that so much would redult from some nerd named Erik Von Markovik taking the bus to Toronto to figure out how to get laid?
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Who would have thought modern physics would be created by a patent clerk in Switzerland?
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Ha. Nice.
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Holy shit, I had an epiphany.
This might be obvious to a native English speaker, which I am not. Is “game” supposed to mean in the “play/match” or “hunt” sense of the word?
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While I’d love to say the answer is simply “both” or “yes” the sad fact is that it’s the first meaning. Hardly anyone knows the second anymore.
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Game, like most popular slang, has roots in the black community. Blacks would go up to a woman they were interested in and “spit game” or “run game”, so I’m pretty sure it is meant as the first definition. I remember this from at least the early 90s.
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Yeah, I was as suprised as any when that journal article hit my inbox this AM (I have an EP RSS set up, there are a ton of great articles in that journal.)
Perhaps what surprised me most was that it was written by a researcher at Oxford U. Oxford represents the very heart of the western liberal academic establishment, and has for nearly 1000 years as it is the oldest university in the Anglosphere world.
The study of the Charismatic arts has gone mainstream, in a very big way. 2013 may indeed be an interesting year for our little community.
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🙂
“Mark my words, the work I’ve done on attraction will probably be examined by the academic community eventually.” – TylerDurden, representing old-school Mystery Method Game, circa like 2003-ish
All we’ve been doing as PUAs is doing mass social experiments, reporting collecting and organizing the data from them, determining consistent patterns, and backwards engineering how to replicate specific results consistently.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: PUA Game isn’t about “theories” or “ideas”. If tomorrow all our collective experience showed that money, looks, height, etc ultimately made any significant difference in getting laid, we’d be encouraging guys to chase obtaining those things.
Anti-gamers talk shit about us like we’re all brainwashed cult morons worshipping random gurus and shit but the reality is all we’re interested in is whatever works…even if it’s not politically correct or makes people feel “squicky” to acknowledge that we aren’t the special unpredictable unique snowflakes we were raised to believe we are. The advertising/marketing industry has understood that for years.
We’re out there Field Testing this stuff in our Social Labs daily, feel free to join us in our research…it’s pretty fucking fun. 😉
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Is there anybody who is aware of Game yet still deny its effectiveness? I mean, there are basically women and feminists who know the truth but hamster it away, and then there are manboobs and other castrated sorts that aren’t even privy to Game. Seems kind of weird to constantly prove that science validates Game when everybody listening already agrees with you.
Anyway, I like the use of terms like “alpha” “beta” and “bitch shield”, it gives the whole Manosphere and Game philosophy a neat underground secret society vibe. The only thing I don’t care for is the use of the Matrix as a metaphor for Game, as it is a thoroughly mediocre movie that was produced by a couple of flaming lefttards.
[Heartiste: One seriously cannot pound the truth into the block-like skulls of the loserati enough. Keep hammering, until the last of them slinks away in disgrace. If you give them a shred of life to hang onto, they will regroup and attack again and again and again. Smash them, and salt the festering basement hovels in which they live.]
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Advice how to get a really vain, arrogant, pretentious guy to like me? He is intellectual and physically fit. We were acquaintances in school but were not friends. Now we have reconnected from chatting online and on the phone. He will spend hours talking to me passionately about things we are both interested in. But then he will disappear and not want to talk to me for weeks at a time. I really like him and I really want him to like me. He hasn’t even asked to meet up though. I am afraid to make a first move because I don’t want to come on too strong. He has never hit on me but he’s sent me almost nude photos of himself and brags about himself to me all the time, so does that mean he likes me or is he just screwing around to boost his own ego? How do I attract this man? He is extremely grandiose and good at speaking. And in excellent shape and very handsome. I think he is way above my league but if so why does he waste so much of his time in conversation with me? He has complimented me so many times and said he is very impressed by me. But only about my mind, he has never said anything good or bad about the way I look so I have no clue if he likes me or not!
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Does he know Game? Is he alpha or beta? What are you on a 1-10 scale?
I assume you want him for a LTR, right?
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“Does he know Game?” I don’t know but I know he does get women casually, I’m not that jealous of them even though I do want him, if he got into an LTR with one girl I would get jealous.
“Is he alpha or beta?” I don’t know, havent interacted with him face to face since we were in school together, then he was a senior and I was a freshman, there is a 4 year age difference between us. He has said that women are sluts, so I dont want to make the first move and seem like a slut! Also he has been engaged to marry a girl before but it was broken off and I dont know the reason.
“What are you on a 1-10 scale?” I dont know, dont want to post my pic on here because if someone I know sees this. Guys try to talk to me almost every day. Realistically, I have a plain but feminine face and a nice body.
“I assume you want him for a LTR, right?” Yes I have the biggest crush on him EVER and I have never had such a huge crush on a guy. I didnt even really notice him when we were in school together. But now he is so special to me. I want anything besides getting to talk only once every 2-3 weeks. He has the body of a god and I want to sleep with him but I dont want him to think I am a slut. When we first started talking again I was seeing somebody and we were only chatting as friends. But the person I was seeing then, it has broken off due to unrelated reasons.
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Disclosure: I’m not a PUA, and neither i am really good at game in practice, but i have been reading posts and analyzing game for years.
That said.
Considering you know game, and told your brother about it, then he either knows game, or will know about it anyway soon.
(world, take notice – I hereby present two new words I created: yamo and nara. Yamo is sum total of everything a man has that could potentially be attractive to a woman. Nara is the sum total of everything a woman has that could potentially be attractive to a man. *patting myself on the back as the beta I am*)
Considering he has girlfriends, I would be surprised if you managed to incentives him invest all of his yamo into you, in exchange for only your nara, as things stand right now.
If you had enough nara, you would have been making him horny by now, and that is hard to miss. As you describe it, he is treating you as a male, and that tells me that he does find the nara you have not worth risking to end your platonic relationship. In other words, other women make him horny, and you don’t (enough).
So if you want his sexual attention, you need to increase your nara considerably, and being prepared keep up that effort as long as you want him interested. Considering that nara is comprised of qualities that are easy to bring up a few notches (tits), but hard to raise several notches, I would be surprised if you managed to raise your nara to such a level that you could leverage sexual exclusivity from him, specially assuming none of you are religious.
So basically, in my mind, what you need to do is to raise your nara the few notches you can, make him horny, and when you have his attention, tell him that you want him. When you get him, tell him that you want a LTR, cohabitation and whatever, but you know you cant attract him enough to have that.
Then tell him that you are ready to give him your sexual exclusivity as long as he never gives attention to a slut he is banging, over you, when you are around.
That would buy you maybe 1-2 years, much longer if you remain submissive. Give him children and take care of them and him, and I dare say odds are slim he will ever divorce you.
Either that, or you take sight on a man with yamo you can handle.
What you need to decide: how much nara do you think you have, how large of a chunk of his yamo are you ready to settle with, can you live with that in reality, considering what your feminist environment will do, and how long do you want that arrangement to hold.
Take note that the poisonous feminist environment will not accept your arrangement with him, and since preeselection is a big part of how you will perceive the value of his yamo, you will perceive a radical drop the value of his yamo as soon as your friends will start to question your decision.
repetition: you are the buyer, he is in demand. You probably will never have enough nara to buy all his yamo, and you both know it. Either you accept it and settle with buying whatever yamo you can afford, or if you are to jealous, find something you can afford. If you do the later, you will never forget that you could have had a piece of lots of yamo.
Where I’m from, it was said in the older days that women should never be allowed to see any other male, except the one they will marry. That struck me as misogynists back when I was younger, but it makes total sense if you consider female hypergamy. Take note that those people saying so almost never experienced more than one or a few women themselves.
either that, or im full of shit. That’s also a possibilty.
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lol this is hilarious.
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I just noticed that i forgot to take into consideration the info about him being engaged.
What kind of women was she? How long were they engaged? Was there infidelity involved?
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He said that she did not fit in with what his vision of life and that she was selfish and loved drama. He said that he saw her flirting with another guy but she said she wasnt flirting and was just being nice. The way he described what happened, yes it does sound like she was just being nice and not flirting and the guy I like probably went way overboard in being angry at her… so I think it shows that he is the jealous type. This happened more than a year ago and he said he hasnt spoken to her since it was called off and he never wants to see her again. He told me that he doesnt give people second chances and once they upset him he never wants to reconcile. One chance only. Friends and lovers alike.
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why not let him know how you feel. prepare for rejection. carpe diem/yolo. find someone else
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also, what geisha kate said.
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I told him how I feel and he said I am too young 😦
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Let him talk about his vision of life. Agree with him were you do. Ask him to elaborate about the parts you aren’t as sure on.
There is a good chance of being drama-free, submissive and awakening his protection instincts would increase your LTR-nara in his eye. Ask him for advice. The frame you want to se is that he feels that you need his leadership. Don’t make any more sexual advancements, and pretend having your anti-slut defense activated.
Agree with him that it’s a good idea, not having sex until you are 18. If he engages sexual talk, let him chase you.
The allure of sex is what will drive him until he gets it, after that you will have to rely much more on other parts of your nara. If you are lacking, you will get dumped.
The jealousy incident that caused him to abandon his fiancée. Either it was just the last drop, or he is incredibly insecure. That reaction does not strike me as coming form somebody who knows game, being aloof and Cooky and Funny.
I can only write in reaction to what you tell me, and it’s limited.
If an appropriate occasion comes up, tell him that you don’t want to get in the position that the fiancée got into, and would like to know if there are other events that cause him to react the way he did. In other words, have him tell you how to build a buffer with him that will allow you to get a second chance. Be direct in that question.
That will also tell him that you want a LTR with him.
Ask him what you can do to prevent him from breaking up if you do a mistake, since you really value him, and you are only human and probably will do a mistake. That will also awaken his protection instinct, if he does have one.
(don’t forget to rebuild that buffer if you use it)
Ask him what he did during those times he didn’t contact you.
The part about him not giving people chance is a big red flag. Read that part several times. It’s very tempting for women to try and fix those things, and most time, it will just end up blowing up in their face.
Make sure to involve a few friends in the process, so you aren’t alone. Alone inexperienced woman is not something you want to be. Read that part several times. If you are going to be submissive, you will need a security line to prevent you from going too deep to fast.
But really. If you sense you can’t handle him, just let it go. It’s not worth it. Really. You are just starting your life, don’t break your heart this early.
as kate said “It is not a coincidence he is now interested in seeing you.”
Don’t confuse his erection for a genuine will to commit. Remember that all you have done is having showed him tits, and have been a Internet buddy. None of that is enough to leverage an LTR.
or as Marky Mark “just find a dude your age in your league.”
Matthew King (King A) is great as usual.
As a man, EVEN if i wanted to be all respectable and shit, and wait until you were 18, my dick would take all the blood from my non-alpha brain and it’s all autopilot after seeing you in a sexy picture, and you making yourself available, specially if he is the hurt beta i suspect him to be.
If you give in there, prepare to take a huge blow to your nara. Express regret for sending the picture, and tell that it really was unlike you. Chances are, he won’t believe you, so be careful.
Oh, and this one is coming from a muslim:
When it gets time for sex, give him a temporary marriage agreement.
It means that you agree to give him sexual exclusivity for a period that you agree on (6 month), in exchange for a small gift from his part. That will make him more relaxed, knowing that you agreed to not cheat on him for a period. Renew at the end of the period, or just let the relationship fade away.
Present him with the idea and have the agreement signed before sex, it will have him value you more. Tell him you read about the idea on the Internet and even though you aren’t muslim, figured it was a nice idea.
(i have no idea were you would reference if he asked were you read it, just say you can’t find the article. Or try this: http://www.mutah.com/ )
With a constantly renewed temporary marriage agreement, you wont need drama to end a bad relation, since an agreed upon expiration is present. It’s more serious that way.
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Thank you for all the advice!!!!
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What do you think he is doing during those weeks he ignores you? Shopping with his mom? If you are listening to him pontificate for hours and he shows no interest in meeting up, start cutting him off short. He does not sound interested. Read The Rules.
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either that or playing mmorpgs.
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lol- No, I’m pretty sure he is with someone and doesn’t need Taylor as an ego massage during that time. Turn the tables on him. Ignore him for a few weeks and see what happens. And read Why Men Marry Bitches. And then Its Your Move.
As far as compliments, well, words are cheap; look to his feet. Is he making movement towards you? That will tell you his interest level.
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So do you think he only talks to me to stroke his own ego? He will talk to me for 4-5 hours and be very passionate I wonder why he would spend so much time talking to me if he doesnt like me? And usually it is me ending the conversations, not him, he would go on and on and on if he could, but I end them not on purpose but just because I really honestly have to go do something else. Do you think he is genuinely busy during those times he wont speak to me, or he is averse to me and doesnt want to talk to me, or he actually likes me and is just playing games? How do I attract him? I dont want to play games with him and I try to be sincere with him because I think if I were to play games to try to attract him that he would catch on to it and think poorly of me. I think he is too intelligent to trick like that.
This man is very Matthew King-like.
P.S. I showed this site to help my little brother a while ago and now he has a bunch of little girlfriends (he is 13) arent I a cool big sister!
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“This man is very Matthew King-like.” Oh boy. (Avert your eyes, my love.) A man like this is very simply wasting your time and keeping you from meeting people who would really be interested in having a relationship with you. He can have a place in your life, but not a main role. Until you are strong enough to resist such types, you shouldn’t attempt even having them in your life at all, I’m afraid. Now, King, attempts to edify; the man you mention (what with all the body photos, etc.) just wants your attention and does not have your best interests at heart.
You are a cool, big sister for helping him, but don’t you find the language and content of this site a bit mature for a thirteen year old?
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Trust me… an interested guy with a SHRED of confidence would have asked you out already… the guy ain’t interested. Why not go for a guy in your league instead?
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Does he have meth mouth?
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If he won’t even meet you and you’re pining this falls into the mental health category where people let fantasies fester without accepting reality. Kate is right, he’s too busy, and what he’s busy doing is fucking women who can tolerate a lack of emotional investment. You’re are too naive to recognize how cold he is and are making him, in your mind, into someone else than who he is.
You (original forlorn questioner) are screwed as far as this guy goes but you aren’t screwed as far as restricting efforts and fantasies to guys who show some interest in real world actions.
If you’re over 19, your innate sexual attractiveness has peaked and this guy is incapable of falling in love anyway. If you really want to degrade yourself to get some alpha genes, the best you’ll probably do it wrangle an accidental pregnancy and his eternal hatred for interfering with his fly by night abuse of his orbiters. Get some therapy and learn to respond to men capable of real emotion.
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I am 17 he is 21
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I texted him “Happy new year” and we chatted. I sent him a pic of me in my sexiest lingerie and he said “Wow that is hot (surprised face emoticon) I haven’t seen this side of you before what has gotten into you (winking face)”
Then I put a blushing face and told him “I really like you but I was too shy to tell you” and he phoned me and said I am wonderful but he doesn’t want to be with me because I am too young. 😦 He said that he thinks that I am wonderful and he loves to talk to me. I said but we only talk on the phone or online and not in person. He said that we can meet up on the weekend if I want to.
How should I act when I meet him? I feel nervous.
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“meet up” ? Oh dear, oh dear. Where are your parents? First of all, he is right. You are too young. A sexual relationship with you would be considered illegal where I live and the photos he sent to you of him shirtless actually could be considered “child abuse.” I don’t necessarily agree with it; I’m just telling you what I know from being a mandated reporter. When you meet up (more like set yourself up), you should act demure. No more lingerie photos, missy!!! It is not a coincidence he is now interested in seeing you.
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If he didn’t find you attractive he wouldn’t talked to you at all… the situation makes sense now… just find a dude your age in your league.
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Taylor, there is no secret. It’s REALLY is to get sex from a guy. Just show your tits and tuch his junk, and he will be all over you.
If he doubts, just tell him you wont tell anyone.
What is hard, what warrant’s a whole subculture, is to get sex from a woman. And there is a good reason for that.
Had i known you were 17…
What IS hard is to leverage a LTR from a man.
Here is a handy easy/hard diagram for you:
————– getting sex from ———- leveraging LTR from
Male:———EASY—————————— HARD
Female:—–HARD—————————— EASY
And a cost diagram:
————– cost of sex ———- cost of an LTR
Male:———CHEAP—————- EXPENSIVE
Female:—-EXPENSIVE————– CHEAP
Look, your nara is what you can get yamo for. Every time a woman spends her nara, it will diminish. Men who are serious much prefer their LTR-material to be as inexperienced as possible.
Don’t your diminish your nara on some hormonal thing. If you really are serious, picture yourself being your mom, and consider what you would tell yourself.
Listen Taylor, sending a sexy pic of yourself to a man, and having him react, is as magical as putting a magnet in front of some metal, and seeing the metal react. It can be thrilling to see that you have that magnetic power, it it was given to you by God/Nature to leverage it against somebody who will stick around after having impregnated you.
Don’t waste your peek sexual years.
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He probably has better option that risk being accused of statutory rape. About your long talks, maybe he just likes to talk and have an audience…
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Ok do you think he will try to sleep with me or act like he just wants to be friends? How should I act when we meet? If I want to try to have a deeper relationship one day should I try to withhold sex unless he will give me an LTR, or will this backfire and make him want nothing? Or should I pursue a friends with benefits relationship with him, do my best to please him and act submissive and relaxed and drama free, and then hope that other girls that are maybe prettier than me will piss him off with their drama and I will be left in the end and he will see how happy I make him? We chatted on the phone for a long time today,,, he said that my hair is really sexy and he wants to run his hands through it, and he said that he wants to fuck me but not until my birthday (which is almost 8 months from now!!!!!! 😦 )
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17 too young??
Bail out, that dude is an idiot. And the fact that she-bro Kate agrees with him proves that he’s an idiot.
(or maybe he didn’t want to hurt your feelings by telling you how ugly you really are).
Also, tits or gtfo.
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I prefer She-Ra 🙂
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Bro Rule #26: You don’t get to choose your nickname.
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lol- I’m not a “bro,” I’m a “bra.”
@Taylor: It doesn’t matter what he will try to do. YOU decide what you are going to do.
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A “really vain, arrogant, pretentious” 21-year-old guy, huh? Who is “intellectual and physically fit … extremely grandiose and good at speaking … and brags about himself to me all the time”? Who sends dix pix to jailbait chix like Anthony Weiner?
Oh, babydoll, if you only knew. I’d like to see an example of the intellectual pretension that impresses a starry-eyed, moist-gusseted 17-year-old.
Like … Einstein said we’re all just neutrons and protons man … Like, none of this bullshit matters! … here’s a picture of my cock… What, you want to fuck me? You’re too young…
I smell a sitcom. Or a whole new school of game technique. Please send this fellow here. You guided your barely pubescent brothers to this place, now let’s get a crack at this guy. What a world.
Matt
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i loled.
And again.
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She is obviously never going to be able to just let it go.
What you need to do is gradually introduce the idea of meeting up. Don’t FORCE it, merely suggest it: “well maybe we could meet somewhere, have coffee or something, and talk like most human beings do :)” Say something like this with a smiling voice, a very light tone. If he doesn’t pick up on this, let it go for a while (I’d say about 3 hours of talking, or a week of absence), then ask again. That’s basically all you can do.
If you ever get to meet face to face: be pretty (make up and feminine clothes), don’t look high maintenance (avoid too much jewellery, except for discreet earrings, and avoid fluffy expensive clothes too, find beauty in simplicity), hold yourself well, KEEP AN OPTIMISTIC, SUPPORTIVE AND CHEERFUL MINDSET AT ALL TIMES (you are here to bring support and happiness in your life), and keep it friendly.
Even if it fails with this one, you can use this for the next one.
My take on this guy is, he doesn’t know shit about game. He’s had a strong, rather conservative education. He probably got burned a couple times, has never been too good looking when he was a teenager, so he isn’t experienced all that much, and as a result doesn’t care all that much about women anymore. He is not a player. He is the kind of guy who have the personal rule of “getting to know the girl” before moving on. You will have to extract his alpha essence (he’s got good potential), make him feel strong, confident and independent (counter-intuitive but very important), or his betaness will kill the love you have for him. Hell, link him Château Heartiste.
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Taylor: go here. This is the site for dating girl game (run by a man, of course):
http://www.therulesrevisited.com/
There are plenty of good resources for you to sharpen your awareness of the true sexual dynamic, only recently being rediscovered and articulated online. Go to Stingray’s “On the Rock” for deeper thoughts from a perceptive woman and young mother who has the best line on the non-physical attractions of femininity per se. Avoid “Hooking Up Smart” — she is an aging beta-worshiper with no handle on the modern sexual marketplace, beyond bewilderment.
You can’t hook a vain pretentious man without being physically present. Online exchanges are superficial nonsense, the disembodied distillation of the least important component of intersexual communication (words).
If you are a mere sounding board for his intellectual chatter, you are not a sexual being to him except in the abstract. Press your advantages: agreeableness, modesty, submissiveness, cheerfulness, the expression of certain but restrained desire. But above all get physically into his life. Unfortunately you sound primed to be a pump-and-dump target, which has its own set of implications too psychologically elaborate to get into here. Manipulating him into longer-term attention will require elite girl-game cross-training, which only exists in its most elementary stages right now. Until that sexual counterrevolution, you will have to patch together bits and pieces from disparate blogs like these.
You cannot initiate, you must remain passive. Failing that, at least be indirect. Any other approach will make you less desirable. You can make yourself more physically attractive, which must be your first priority. See The Rules Revisited for specific pointers.
Matt
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he’s a homo.
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Let’s address something that hasn’t come up yet, that a man who wants to fuck you isn’t going to say. (And assume they all want to fuck you – don’t hate them for it, just understand it’s part of life.)
You’re 17, right? You should be focused on a) getting the hell out of high school, b) figuring out what you’re going to do next year when you are legally an adult, and c) not making decisions with that teenage mind that your middle-age mind is going to regret. Stop sending this guy pictures of yourself half-naked. Study for your SATs. Buy yourself a vibrator. Surf Joseph Gordon-Levitt photos on tumblr. If your parents are still together, talk to your dad about why he still loves your mom. Get a part-time job. Enjoy being a kid for another year.
A crush when you’re 17 feels like the most important thing that has ever happened ever. And it sort of is, but not really. Because significantly more important things are going to happen to you later. Much, much more important things. Like, much later. When you’ve lived through some mistakes and heartbreak and rent payments you can’t meet and everything else. Like everything you’ve been doing so far. In the grand scheme of things, the only value in this situation for you is what you take out of it moving forward, and honey, that ain’t gonna be this guy.
It’s up to you to decide the type of hurt you’re going to feel when it’s over. I’d recommend the kind that fades fast and doesn’t leave emotional scars.
There will always be idiot drama queens out there, torturing the good guys you want to be with. There will always be prettier girls, throwing themselves at the good guys you wish would date you. And the good guys will fuck them. You will witness this well into your twenties. Sooner or later, however, those guys are going to start looking for that LTR, wife-and-mother-of-my-children material. Which those girls will never be, and you won’t be, if you choose to put yourself in that category. The way you compete with the sluts is… don’t be a slut.
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>>> “Jesus H. Christmas, this entire paper reads like it was ripped straight from Chateau Heartiste archives.”
What makes you think it isn’t?
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I’VE FOUND A 10!!!
WHAT’S YOUR OPINION??
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Nah man, not even close
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who is a 10 in your opinion, then? (post pics)
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Kim Kardashian is more of a 10 than your bitch.
I hate that bitch but she’s stunning if you like brunettes.
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I think you’re a little too excited about a woman.
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Pic is photoshopped as hell… I’d like to see her in the morning without makeup.
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its them store bought Lavar Burton makumba love inner tube lips
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If you want to see every girl you find attractive without make up you will live disappointed forever.
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I stumbled upon a few stunners without make up.
And my partner count is in the low double digits.
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Nice, but I’d like to see her ass and legs first.
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Is it just me thinking that it’s not a living person I’m looking at?
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why?
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getting a kind of artificial vibe… Like those realdolls.
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‘swaying the upper body towards a prospective romantic interest while talking’
Doesnt this fly in the face of that the aloof alpha lean BACK when talking?
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Do you lean back when you are in the process of kino ing? That’s what the statement was implying.
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http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/andruw-jones-wife-files-for-divorce-010213
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Which is more devastating to CH’s self-regard? Not being included in this study or being left off the SPLC hate-list?
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SPLC?
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A prominent jooish organisation that defames anyone who can walk and chew gum at the same time.
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Sounds fun
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You refusing to sleep with him?
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If Mystery game becomes foundational in mainstream thought, that will be the end of its effectiveness. To the extent that most men have game, no man has game, because the dual female mating strategy commands that most men must not be given access to casual sex. Only the top 15 or 20 percent of men in attractiveness will ever have a serious shot at being players, the rest are must be starved until they submit to the family law system in hopes of getting laid. The only question is how high the jump bar is set to make that happen. Of course, game will still be necessary, because the bar will simply be higher and game knowledge will become part of what women assume any man will have. Things will never become easier for men who want to become players, they will always have to go through the non-linear, labor-intensive struggle for that next level of knowledge most other men don’t have.
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Disagree.
The ‘effectiveness’ is a function of the students’ results-oreinted success from applying the material.
Most men don’t have the capability or capacity to execute and apply learning process. And this won’t change. Although the popularity may continue to increase this doesn’t equate to it being diminished as an effective resource when applied.
And the presumption that women will somehow adapt to the mystery method and this will lessen it’s effectiveness suggests you are basing your claim on a limited field experience data set.
Game works. Mystery method, while it’s commercial success brings more critique, is an excellent resource that brings the fundamental principles of game into a format that can be understood by students starting their journey. And when applied it can facilitate a gateway to other more advanced topics.
Women simply do not recognize a “routine” or whatever you want to call it and identify it on the spot.
For example: “are your nails real?”. a line from mystery method. It isn’t the exact line of content, its how its delivered. And the point is that making a comment about her nails,clothes,attire or whatever is an effective tactic that exhibits a curious, interesting, aloof and challenging remark that spikes attraction from women.
Further assuming that only men of top attractiveness (physical) have game is a notion that most beginners assert.
Women are attracted to attitude over physical appearance.
Mystery method is solid. And it’s effecti
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Interesting, although I’m torn as to whether this is a good thing or not – wrote up a quick post about it.
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[…] been reading an interesting article over at the ever thought-provoking blog of the guys at Chateau Heartiste. It seems that an academic […]
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Here’s an article entitled “Body Shape and Attraction” which goes into the waist to hip ratio.
http://www.youbeauty.com/relationships/attraction-body-shape?utm_source=feedbox&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Feedbox#022
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The problem isn’t scienzce; it’s womanishness.
Women don’t like reality, and think they can bend it. Women’s world has long been about “bending the group to win the argument”, and seldom engaged in STEM or society-building. Those few women who do are often autistic-seeming, because that’s the gene that gets them acting logically.
As such, women believe that if they just repeat something enough, or get enough people on their side, it becomes true. That is why women’s courses are always about “consensus-building”—-because, in a woman’s mind, consensus=reality.
It’s a pity they evolved this way, but men’s massive success in the role of society-building has allowed them this luxury. With little cost to them themselves beyond sexual favors,,women are completely insulated from the dangers of reality. It is only in those societies close to savage downfalls or just a generation beyond—i.e. women who can see and personally remember the true face of anti-civilization—that women realize chanting and mantras don’t work.
Science has long held these answers (e.g. any non-human biological study revealed this shit long ago), but women–and female minded men, such as fags or left-wing men—simply believe that if they ignore these studies, this reality disappears. Hamsterization run amok!
This is why you can ask lefties till their blue in the face about the externalities or consequences of their programs, and they refuse to countennance any statistical argument showing their utopian beliefs to be hole-filled. They simply believe in their mantras and that if they repeat them enough, such consequences will disappear.
An easy example is unemployment. Despite countless studies literally showing that unemployment benefits hurt economically, keep people in poverty, and make people choose listlessness and laziness over industry and getting a job, lefties continuously push it more, more, more! Why? Because their hamsters simply refuse to acknowledge the studies at all. Willful blindness. If they don’t see the evidence, they’re always right.
But willful blindness only lasts until someone is bold enough— or savage enough—to rip their eyelids off.
Savagery, through all its evil, is still too good for these creatures.
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@ Whorefinder
It’s morally induced blindness. Man is a moral animal; i.e., man wants to be what he considers to be moral.
As long as altruism (self-sacrifice) is the moral ideal, a large number of men will want to be moral, even if it conflicts with reality. For what world is it if it be not moral?
So the only way to get leftists to accept reality is to show that their “morality” is, in fact, i m m o r a l, i.e., anti-life.
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Profound and well-put, whorefinder.
The earliest stage of the counterrevolution is well-suited for pick-up. Putting your “game” face on is enough to register disagreement with the femme regime without being threatening. Indeed, you’re filling a need they forgot they had.
But the time will come to take the game face off and put our war face on.
We are at war, and savagery is a component of war. This is something gentle-Jesus types misunderstand about the Ecclesia Militans: they believe the techniques to deal with personal-scale evil are the same as those strong enough to thwart insidious, large-scale evil — i.e., through feminine submission (cheek-turning). Which is why feminism has been so successful co-opting non-orthodox faiths — these are religions that grew to maturity within civilization’s walls, with no experience of the state of nature.
On that wall between civilization and nature stood “rough men … ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm.” Except feminism un-roughed those men on the wall and allowed the state of nature to insinuate itself back into the civitas. The gook is in the wire. The civil and savage are mixed. Hypergamy and the “Dark Triad” are regnant even as we pretend outmoded conventions, customs on paper, are a match for a force majeure.
So we turn inward, hand-to-hand street fighting, battling and expunging the state of nature in our homes and in ourselves. That requires not just savagery but intimate savagery.
Matt
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“”The popular game forums focus more on attraction than on comfort building, and the reason is likely because most men are naturally worse at the former. But in my experience, I see a lot of men dropping the ball during the comfort stage.””
True. This is where there’s a tendency to over-game–my problem. Calibration is they key.
The second epiphany is that when I talk about game to friends, they look at me as though it’s an alternative strategy as opposed to what is implied here—that its principles are hard-wired into our hind-brains but through socialization and a switch to a feminist imperative, and dissemination through popular media, the principles have become a stigma. Joey in Friends is the shallow dork while sensitive beta-males Chandler and Ross always get their dream girl in the end.
I think in many ways the scientific abstracts push game into the mainstream but the real work isn’t the peacocking, the negging, the various stages of the Mystery Method.
The real work here needs to be done on inner game, calibration, EQ, intent.
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Test
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Lol I know right
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“”The popular game forums focus more on attraction than on comfort building, and the reason is likely because most men are naturally worse at the former. But in my experience, I see a lot of men dropping the ball during the comfort stage. “”
Calibration is vital. The haters and femininists focus on the techniques as though it’s trickery.
But the most-overlooked aspects of game in my own personal experience are “inner game” traits: what Krauser refers to as “Soft-Dominance”.
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“The popular game forums focus more on attraction than on comfort building”
If you escalate fast enough, you have to do comfort/rapport afterward to avoid ASD issues triggering regret and Buyer’s Remorse. Like the girl from the other day I escalated with super fast to sex, but after we banged I told her “Let’s cuddle” and we chilled together and got to know eachother and shot the shit for about an hour and she shared a bunch of deep comfort connection stuff about herself with me.
If I hadn’t done that, it could’ve blown up in my face later (Buyer’s Remorse, rape accusations, just never see her again, etc.). Naturals run into this shit a lot because they don’t care about comfort/rapport, just getting the lay. But solid game where you “leave her better than you found her” and have her chasing you and coming back for more etc. involves comfort/rapport as well as Attraction.
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*fist bump*
yareally, you’re one of the few on here that actually goes out and executes. good post.
Agreed.
Comfort building is so critical, and the most lengthy of the process, yet the least attended to. And regarding your experience its so true. If in a situation where sex escalates quickly- you have to establish comfort and ‘forge’ or ‘construct’ a genuine adult sexual relationship with the subject if you desire to see her again. If you dont….chances are very high her ASD hamster will get on the rationalization treadmill and obsolve herself of responsibility of her decission for sex so quickly.
“it just happened…he took me to his place but didnt tell me”
heh.
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Calibration.
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“leave her better than you found her”
LOL
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@PA, the “campfire” rule. Ever seen a campsite after a woods party?
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“leave her better than you found her”
Physics tells us we can’t leave her younger than when we met her.
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@Ya Really, interesting story to share…girl I’m now gaming, I would rate a walawala 9, tall, long legs, truly gorgeous, but typical chick.
I’d been gaming her for a while. At Christmas gives me a very thoughtful gift, then starts to get cool, then I game her more, she heats up. We go out, k-close. She cools. I back off, she heats up.
We meet up at a club and hang out, dance. Then i leave while she’s still up dancing.
I get 2 texts, clearly shit-tests: “did you leave?”
Me: I’m a magician, disappeared
Her: you didn’t even say goodbye
Me; Batman
A few things to note about this exchange.
1) Two years ago my responses would have been defensive and supplicating
2) The fact she’s now shit-testing is actually a positive indicator that the hamster is spinning
3) the non-responses while on the surface seem dickish…in the context of how chicks operate are vital to understanding game.
Earlier in the day I’d sent a text suggesting we meet up for a farewell dinner before a long holiday I was taking. She was “busy” working and didn’t really offer any alternative. I didn’t respond.
Also, i had given her a DVD or some film or something we had discussed, she never bothered to even thank me for it.
I never brought it up again.
When girls are HB8’s…they get hit on all the time.
When they meet someone who is gaming them, showing interest, then disappearing —-leaving without saying goodbye after hanging out—that’s when the the chased becomes the chaser.
I never understood this concept before.
Now I do.
It takes real discipline not to cave into an HB8.
Her protestations are shit-tests. She knows I asked her out, she knows she was flakey. She knows I didn’t react but just ploughed on.
The persistence without neediness requires a clear head, discipline, an understanding of game and above all—-OPTIONS.
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Saving this comment, good shit.
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This anecdote aligns with the original post.
What I sense from my interaction is something very very primal.THis is a very normal, happy girl. But now that attraction has been sparked, something very primal is being triggered.
After my “Day 2″ in which she was super keen—we spent 7 hours hanging out—suddenly she started ‘thinking” about it—there’s now a classic forebrain, hind-brain conflict. I think without a better understanding of game and i would have caved and that would have ended the attraction.
The fact that there is a scientific basis for this is comforting.
So now the “you didn’t say goodbye” thing was a shit-test.
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“When they meet someone who is gaming them, showing interest, then disappearing —-leaving without saying goodbye after hanging out—that’s when the the chased becomes the chaser.”
Yep. This is Mystery’s Cat String Theory in action. Put a string in front of a cat and it doesn’t care. But dangle it and yank it away, let it catch it slightly and yank it away again and the cat will be fucking mind-blown obsessed with chasing it.
In one of his vids he talks about how he figured it out and it was from a stripper who would show interest then pull away and he realized he’d instinctively want to chase her when she did that takeaway. It’s more powerful because she SEEMS interested, then disappears, vs if she was just completely aloof to begin with.
Also remember that you don’t have to respond to every txt. 😉
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@immoralgables/Ya Really. if you’re interested, here’s an update on that HB8 who was somehow upset i left.
So I ran into her at a party we were both attending. I was there with friends and hanging out, drinking and generally having a good time.
I left her to stew for a while.
Then I walked over to ask her to dance.
Her: Are you going to disappear again?(clear shit test)
Me: Smiling. I am James Bond….But it’s good to know you missed me…
Her: Blushing, looking down.
From there it was easy. She was putty. I invited her over, we had drinks with my friends, hung out. Then she left….and hung around waiting for me to leave.
Went for the make out. Of course she resisted, then was totally into it.
There is a kind of risk of over-gaming here. So I didn’t go too hard on inviting her back—i left that part honestly to her imagination.
Sure enough, 30 minutes later I get a text. We have a series of banter texts—role play, just retarded shit. Turns out this girl is actually quite funny, picks up on any thread, makes shit up.
It’s been like this for the last couple of days, she’s constantly opening me with photos, texts, jokes, chatter….I keep it light. Cocky funny.
The whole thing builds comfort and also intrigue. Girls like a guy whom they can’t quite figure out where he’s coming from….available …but not…fun….but not supplicating…sexually forward but aloof…
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[…] In the New York Times bestselling book The Game: Penetrating the Secret Society of Pickup Artists (2006), the world was granted its first exclusive introduction to the steadily growing dating coach and pick-up artist community. Many of its most prominent authorities claim to use insights and information gleaned both through first-hand experience as well as empirical research in evolutionary psychology. One of the industry’s most well-respected authorities, the illusionist Erik von Markovik, promotes a three-phase model of human courtship: Attraction, building mutual Comfort and Trust, and Seduction. The following review argues that many of these claims are in fact grounded in solid empirical findings from social, physiological and evolutionary psychology. Two texts which represent much of this literature Source: Chateau Heartiste […]
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Just out of curiosity, have any of the real PUAs here ever used game to nail a Jizzabel-type feminazi?
-Even just as a semi-comedic exercise in being an Evil Mastermind?
Also, more evidence for Heartiste’s harsh judgments on age and a woman’s SMV.
The Mighty Victoria Silvstedt, 38, ravaged by Time:
http://www.zimbio.com/photos/Victoria+Silvstedt/Novak+Djokovic+Foundation+Inaugural+Dinner/m8icF2Gs3Bx
http://www.thesuperficial.com/photos/victoria-silvstedt-maurice-dabbah-on-a-yacht-in-sardinia/victoria-silvstedt-maurice-dabbah-on-a-yacht-in-sardinia-24
(though I see silicone remains as ever, incorruptible)
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Happy New Year, y’all.
(For an added bonus, hamster-wheel at 2:09)
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http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2013/01/07/130107fa_fact_green
A great article about a pickpocket.
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Women vs man fight
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Look at the comments. The guy wins, but the woman gets all the attention.
Fuck that, she couldn’t even beat a man who looked to weigh less than her. Her punches did not hurt him, and he won on having better condition. At the end of the first round, he just clunged to her, so she was expending a lot of energy and not doing any damage. Then at the start of the second round, she couldn’t keep up on a blow-for-blow exchange.
Still, everybody on the audience and youtube comments jizzed their pants.
Sure, ill give her props for being able to stand in front of a man.
But that was an army competition, and in real combat, she would get raped, specially considering that she can’t count on the enemies to produce a suitable lightweight opponent.
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That was a woman?
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youtube comment:
“If I had won this fight … I would certainly feel like a piece of shit.”
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IBS interview.
We’ve all heard the phrase: “you can’t fool an honest man”
Is the same true for women?
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that’s a trick question, because there is no such beast as an honest woman.
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^^ in response to thwack
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you gotta make one honest.
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Is a 17 year age difference too much? I’m 22, he’s 39.
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It’s always educational when you set out to let a “civilian” in on the truth about Game. I have a 44-year-old friend who just got divorced.As I remember twenty years ago, in his 20s, he relied heavily on good looks and had good natural pickup game. He’s still blessed with having youthful energy and being in great shape as a tall, well-toned mesomorph with a full head of dark hair. But something must have been amiss in his relationship/marriage Game. HIs ex turned into a vicious cunt and he is lucky he got through the divorce in good shape.
He and I stepped out in the cold evening yesterday and threw a football back and forth and talked. He’s heard about Game from me in the past, and has looked at the archives here a time or two. But he’s not yet convinced.
He wants a girlfriend to start a family and have more children but doubts his chances, at his age. He said “I don’t even know if I want some divorced late-thirties woman with kids anyway.” I told him he can have college-aged girls if he wants — all he has to do is know where to look, and run good game.
But he comes back with somthing we should all be able to respond to: “I don’t wanna play games, I want to keep it real with a girl.”
You have to be able to explain to your willing audience — without relying on jargon and on all the axioms that are understood here — that Game is not fakery or a tool to be used and discarded.
I did pretty well in answering his questions. But also stressed that he needs to set a long evening aside and go through the archives here. And I stressed that without taking that step, he won’t get where he wants to go.
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How hot was his ex when he married her?
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She was a solid 8.
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Contrary to the fattie study, every man or woman in his late eighties and beyond that I’ve ever seen was very slim.
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probably because fat people tend to live shorter lives, and people in their 80’s now grew up eating real food instead of processed junk and weere less sedentary.
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Re: obesity and longevity
Does the study account for how the people in each group tend to live their lives? Are there activities that people with healthy weight are more likely to pursue (are they more likely to be adventurous)?
Are people with healthier weight more likely to be selected for relatively higher risk occupations?
If so, do these factors contribute to earlier death among healthy weight people? Do these people lead relatively fuller, more rewarding and interesting live?
And so on.
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OT
More bluepill shit
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2256255/Todays-popular-day-women-file-divorce–husbands-wives-stop-loving-them.html
” they shouldn’t be talking anyway — they need to be listening to their wives. Really, truly listening”
lol.
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Contrary to the fattie study, every man or woman in his late eighties and beyond that I’ve ever seen was very slim.
Every men above 80 I have ever see was slim. But many women above 80 were, if not A LITTLE overweight, at least they that “excess-skin” that comes from a formerly overweight body, combined with the natural flacidity of old age.
What I still haven’t seen is a lonely 80 year old. They all had/have many relatives around. The Japanese way, in which people get into their 80s or even 90s, without siblings and with one child per couple, is something that does not exist in my experience
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OT: bigger brains are correlated with less children (in fish) http://cosmiclog.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/01/03/16325592-scientists-breed-big-brained-guppies-to-demonstrate-evolutions-trade-offs?lite
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@Kate
“It doesn’t matter what he will try to do. YOU decide what you are going to do.”
WTF are you talking about, woman.
If he tries to rape her, it matters a wholes fucking lot. Feministic bullshit.
People with hypoagency express such ideas, since they cant act anyway. People with hyperagency are taught to know themselves, know their enemy and know the environment.
It’s when you have hypoagency that you just shut your eyes and hope the universe will give a shit about what you think. And it only works because they got hyperagents covering the asses of the hypoagents.
Taylor is giving up her role as a hypoagent, and can not afford to shut her eyes.
I get pissed about bullshit like that, “i have the right to be naked in front a convicted serial rapist in a dark ally in the middle of a bad neighborhood at midnight, and he doesn’t have the right to rape me!”
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My beta soul quivered with joy as I searched thru this latest Science for the evidence that I craved to discover — that hot fertile babes were really out there authentically lusting after my high-minded, deeply altruistic cock. Sigh…
All things considered, I should keep abusing the girly bits of Financial Chick. God knows she can take it. Fucking her is like fucking a corpse taken down from the public gallows after a totally righteous public hanging.
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Hi Heartiste,
There is a new study on benefits and costs of personality traits that I think you will love:
http://www.ehbonline.org/article/S1090-5138%2812%2900090-6/abstract?elsca1=etoc&elsca2=email&elsca3=1090-5138_201301_34_1&elsca4=elsevier
“Fitness costs and benefits of personality disorder traits”
Abstract:
Extreme personality traits in humans often have detrimental life consequences, so they have long been supposed to be diseases. However, many other species display personality variants that are maintained due to their fitness advantages; in this case, they are construed as strategies. To examine the fitness costs and benefits of pathological personality traits in humans, we measured features of the A (socially odd, distrustful), B (incentive-seeking, selfish) and C (fearful, inhibited) clusters with the Personality Diagnostic Questionnaire-4+ (PDQ-4+) in a sample of 738 outpatients. Fitness relevant parameters like mating success, reproductive output, self preservation, and access to status were assessed with the Life Outcome Questionnaire. No fitness advantages were found for high-A subjects. In contrast, high-B subjects tripled low-B subjects with regard to mating success and had 39% more offspring. Further, high-C subjects outperformed low-C subjects in attaining status and avoiding risks. These findings help explain the commonness of some extreme personality traits in humans, and suggest that they should be seen as evolutionary strategies rather than as diseases.
Cleber
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“Looks are everything.” – some loser justifying his inaction.”
Straw man and confirmation bias. How many people maintain looks are everything? Hugh Hefner just married a playmate. What’s instructive is that if a women’s poll reached a conclusion you disagreed with, you’d naturally argue that we have to go by how women behave rather than what they say. Observed behavior trumps stated behavior every time.
Having a niece (possibly a daughter) makes me realize how important looks are. Everybody wants to bend over backwards for the baby because of how goddamn cute she is. When evolution wants to trick parents into investing in children, it tells them their baby is cute. But even among their own kids, studies show, parents invest more in the better looking child.
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