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Chateau Heartiste

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« Stop Looking At Girls From Across The Room
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Powerful Nonverbal Openers

January 7, 2013 by CH

In this post, we discussed the problem of men forfeiting a big chunk their sexual market currency by repeatedly glancing around a room at every girl, hoping for reciprocal eye play, but ultimately never approaching. The SMV damage comes from two insults: One, girls are turned off by men who retreat to the safe harbor of long distance probing eye contact; two, men will experience a subtle but sure erosion of their self-confidence from abjuring action for passivity. Reader Days of Broken Arrows puts it nicely:

Looking also doesn’t work because action turns women on, not inaction. This is something they don’t teach in school and I don’t see it much in the manosphere either. I keep saying this, but I’ll repeat it. Even though they tell us we’re “equal,” men built everything you now own or work with (or in). Women’s job, biologically speaking, is to give birth. Men’s is to build society. We get turned on by things we notice about them that relate to giving birth (hips, breasts) they get turned on by knowing how we’ll help build the world.

As with any rules, there are exceptions. But my point is that having the balls to walk up to a women like you own the fucking room and deserve her time is half the battle. It’s a metaphor for why she’ll be attracted to you. Men who sit and stare are margin dwellers, not doers.

What kind of man just up and WALKS into a woman’s personal space to meet her when he hasn’t been green-lighted by hours of mutually parried eye contact? Answer: An attractive man. Chicks dig the insouciant, entitled man, despite any protestations to the contrary you may hear from the rape culture crowd.

Now, none of this is to say that pre-approach, long distance “openers” can’t work, or shouldn’t be tried. Not only can they work, but if done correctly, the nonverbal opener from a distance is powerfully alluring to women. For example, reader dannyfrom504 writes,

what’s worked for me (and i’m not a great looking guy) is to make eye contact and to stick my tongue out at her like we were in grade school. if i get a laugh or smile, i approach and ask her name.

Picture the scenario. You spot a cute girl, and look at her for a few tantalizing seconds, waiting for her to look up and return your death stare. Then, she raises her head and meets your eye. But instead of reacting the usual way most men do — quickly averting your shy gaze back down to your book which you aren’t reading — you stick your tongue out at her. For maximum funniness, you do this with a deadpan expression. Caught off-guard by this perfect demonstration of cocky male assurance, she will smile and laugh. How do I know she will smile and laugh? Because it is nearly impossible not to smile and laugh when confronted by such a strange and endearing child-like violation of social norms. You did not act like the millions of betas act, who perch in the corners of her world like potted plants. You acted like a man she is now suddenly interested in meeting. This nonverbal opener has greased the skids for a smooth follow-up approach opener.

Here’s another nonverbal opener from reader Cream:

this [sticking tongue out] is basically what I do except that I wave comically.

When a girl meets your eye, can you imagine waving your arms at her frantically, as if you were trying to flag her down from the side of the road? Or waving happily like you’re a kid who just spotted Santa Claus in the Macy’s Thanksgiving Parade? No? You say you can only see yourself looking away shyly, and looking back at her ten minutes later, praying she’ll toss you an absolutely unmistakeable signal of interest? That is why you fail.

Now here’s a nonverbal opener I like to do in low-key venues filled with obstacles that make instant, direct verbal approaches more problematic. If a girl meets my gaze, I’ll theatrically rub my chin, tilt my head and furrow my brow as if I’m assessing her for facial imperfections. Then I’ll drop my hand a bit from my chin, raise my eyebrows, squint, and nod slowly while doing that Robert DeNiro half-frown, half-smirk of sudden comprehension, as if I have realized she’s cute enough for further consideration. Sometimes, this charade elicits a blank stare, or even a sourpuss. But most of the time, the girl reacts positively, occasionally bordering on gleeful surprise. And if I have got a girl to smile from across the room, that just makes the approach shortly to follow that much easier to execute.

Does all this sound gay to you? Ok, Stoic Alpha Male Lumberjack, it’s way gay for you. But guess which man she’ll be thinking about the rest of the week? That’s right, the guy who stuck his tongue out at her.

If you aren’t embedding yourself in girls’ minds, you aren’t seducing them at all.

I understand that these sorts of expressive, perhaps histrionic, nonverbal openers require a certain thespian facility with manipulating one’s face and body, and a certain level of comfort with making a spectacle of oneself in potentially crowded arenas, and that many men, especially the shoe-gazing introverts, will find such contortions and stagecraft beyond their ken. If you are the sort who finds the idea of performance art intolerable, then there are other avenues for you to unleash your inner flirt. But for more extroverted or experimental men, the nonverbal “pre-opener” is like the cluster bomb of shock pulsing girls out of their tawdry, affected ennui. And you know what else? It’s fun to do!

Naturally, your acting chops will go to waste if you don’t capitalize on her freshly inspired feelings of warmth and good will toward you. You’ll need to do that follow-up, and you’ll need to have something to say. Reader immoralgables offers a suggestion for a cocky verbal opener that can be congruently squeezed into a whole slew of contexts:

A few weeks ago me and my good friend were sarging in the West Village. Him and I were chatting and plotting our next move when i noticed this one HB8 glancing at me for half a second.

I immediately dropped the convo with my wing and without hesitation went to the Hb8 and told her to stop treating me like a piece of meat and that I have feelings too, etc.

It was the first time I didn’t even think about approaching a hot girl; I just did it because I was opening girls all night so I didn’t care by that point. The reaction I got from her was awesome. She did not expect me to initiate like that and so directly.

I of course fucked up shortly thereafter but for those few minutes I knew exactly what Heartiste is talking about.

There is nothing inherently anti-game or beta about visually scanning a room to check out which girls meet your exacting standards. The problem comes when you abuse the safe effortlessness of the visual scan, and rely on it to the exclusion of more active real world interactions with women to forge an active fantasy world. This is why I suggest you get out of the habit of “checking girls out”, and get into the habit of speaking (or charming) girls up.

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Posted in Game | 120 Comments

120 Responses

  1. on January 7, 2013 at 2:54 pm Jumbobeef

    First.

    LikeLike


  2. on January 7, 2013 at 2:59 pm Anon

    Second!

    LikeLike


  3. on January 7, 2013 at 3:00 pm theprivateman

    Jeebus, quoting Danny?! Well, he does know what he’s doing ’round the dames. Never argue with success.

    LikeLike


  4. on January 7, 2013 at 3:04 pm Days of Broken Arrows

    Thanks for the props. I wanna drop some knowledge about field experience I had with this.

    When I was 17 I almost died. When I ended up living (to everyone’s surprise) something weird came over me and I started taking all these strange risks, thinking I didn’t have long, so why not make the most of it? One of the things I would do was just walk up to whatever girl in school (or at the mall) I felt like and just say anything:

    “Hey, can I have a french fry or two? I’m starved!”

    “Got a quarter for the vending machine.”

    “Suzanne! Wait, you’re not Suzanne. Well, can you pretend to be Suzanne for a sec?”

    “Hey, so you feel like getting married so I can have tall kids” (said to a freakishly tall but hot female basketball player — worked too).

    At a fourth of July celebration I sat down next to the hottest girl and said:
    “Hey can I sit on your blanket?” “Um, can I have some of that soda?” When everyone started chuckling after she gave me the soda and asked if I wanted chips I said “Hey, how about $20?” Her response: “Only if you spend it on me.”

    Anyway, after you go in, if you don’t want to screw things up, like “immoralgables” mentioned, you have a few choices. Establish yourself then get out ASAP if you know you’re gonna see her again. Or STFU and ask a lot of qu’s — the more she knows about you the more she can rule you out. Or break the convo and pick up in a joking manner a bit later (“…So you’re still not Suzanne, are you?”).

    The trick is to treat these engagements as if you really do have only one or two years left to live. All told, I got about two years of natural game out of my near-death experience. You need to have natural bon vivant, though. It also helped I’d read a bio on Keith Moon and tried to live like him for a while.

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    • on January 7, 2013 at 3:32 pm Revo Luzione

      Awesome collection here.

      My favorite: “Suzanne! Wait, you’re not Suzanne. Well, can you pretend to be Suzanne for a sec?”

      Don’t know anything about Keith Moon, will have to check into that a bit.

      LikeLike


      • on January 7, 2013 at 6:14 pm Greg Eliot

        My fav Keith Moon story:

        He’s in a hotel room, going over tapes of the Who’s latest recording session.

        Suddenly there’s a knock on the door and he answers it to find a veddy proper Brit gentleman asking him to “Please turn down that noise.”

        He smiles his best Chesire-shit-eatin’ grin and says: “Wait ‘ere a minute, guv!” and shuts the door.

        The gentleman in the hallway then hears godawful crashes, cracks, thunderous thumping and so forth, as if a rhino had been let loose in the room. Keith, of course, was doing an even more yeoman like job of his usual hotel room trashing.

        Keith returns and opens the door, holding his tape player, turns it on, and amid the strains of said recording session, tells the gentleman:

        “THAT wuz noize… THIS is the ‘oo!” and slams the door in his face.

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    • on January 7, 2013 at 6:59 pm immoralgables

      This was an eye-opening comment on your part. I can only imagine what almost shaking the grim reaper’s hand did for you mentally.

      Don’t take it the wrong way but I’m glad it happened to you.

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      • on January 7, 2013 at 10:55 pm Revo Luzione

        A near-death experience often peels back the veil, showing a man the true, ephemeral nature of life. Few things in life speaks to a man’s soul like confronting one’s death. There’s a reason that so many spiritual and warrior traditions call for a practice of contemplating one’s death.

        LikeLike


    • on January 7, 2013 at 10:01 pm YaReally

      “First you have to know…not fear, KNOW…that someday you are going to die. Until you know that, you are useless.” -Fight Club

      Still one of the most important movies for a man to watch.

      LikeLike


      • on January 7, 2013 at 10:28 pm Scray

        Hey, Ya…put up the latest FR here https://heartiste.wordpress.com/2013/01/04/stop-looking-at-girls-from-across-the-room/#comment-401265…any thoughts appreciated 😀

        LikeLike


      • on January 9, 2013 at 3:49 am YaReally

        On its way after I get off work tonight. Got some tips & shit for you. Lol’ed at telling the blind man to “See.” 🙂

        LikeLike


      • on January 9, 2013 at 8:23 pm YaReally

        https://heartiste.wordpress.com/2013/01/04/stop-looking-at-girls-from-across-the-room/#comment-402111

        Dropped a bigass analysis thing for ya! Happy reading lol

        LikeLike


    • on January 8, 2013 at 8:49 am thwack

      Days of Broken Arrows
      When I was 17 I almost died. When I ended up living (to everyone’s surprise)
      ————
      Why didn’t you and your big lips just convert to Islam?

      LikeLike


  5. on January 7, 2013 at 3:11 pm Anon

    I had a similar experience, really. I sticked my tongue from across the room and I approached her (hb9) with my favorite opener, Mystery’s “Can we just be friends? Just like when we were kids, you saw someone you were interested in and you just walk in and say “can we be friends”…

    The problem is it was in a hookers’ bar. Does it count?

    LikeLike


    • on January 7, 2013 at 3:40 pm Jumbobeef

      Lolz, Maybe but still what was she doing in the hookers’ bar?

      LikeLike


      • on January 8, 2013 at 9:21 am Anon

        I think she was pretending to be a prostitute.
        She was convincing enough. I even had to pay.

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  6. on January 7, 2013 at 3:13 pm Falconer

    Super hot waitress chick at bar I frequent has been giving me what I assume to be IOIs lately. She routinely places her hand on top of mine when she brings me the bill, often goes out of her way to say hello, and the other day while I was leaving she called me by name to say goodbye (never told her my name, apparently she cared enough to remember it off my credit card).

    I haven’t acted on any of this, just concentrating on avoiding beta tendencies at the moment. So I ask, does this sound like a waitress just doing her job or should I capitalize on her potential interest?

    Couple of things holding me back:
    1. Don’t really know how to open her. Not nervous, just nothing to say and I don’t want to interrogate her.
    2. She’s seriously aesthetic, close to HB9 material. A little intimidating.
    3. I’m always alone at the bar, have no social circle. DLV

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    • on January 7, 2013 at 3:38 pm taterearl

      1. Anything can be an opener and it’s not very important what it is. Use the environment. If you don’t want to interrogate her…don’t ask questions.
      2. Poke that beauty bubble…you are putting her on the pedestal.
      3. Only if you think that. I went to a bar this weekend where I knew nobody yet became one of the most popular guys there…I gamed the whole room.

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    • on January 7, 2013 at 3:45 pm RappaccinisDaughter

      I waited tables in college. I would make a point of very briefly touching my customers–always somewhere neutral like the forearm or the shoulder–because I’d read it would help increase my tips. (It did, too. A lot.) I also always went out of my way to smile, even if I was exhausted. And with regulars, I made it my business to greet them by name. All of those things are just good customer service.

      Which isn’t to say she doesn’t like you. She might.

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      • on January 7, 2013 at 4:55 pm Falconer

        Yeah, that’s what I suspected. Thanks for your input.

        LikeLike


      • on January 7, 2013 at 6:14 pm Zombie Shane

        1. Don’t really know how to open her. Not nervous, just nothing to say and I don’t want to interrogate her.

        Again, if all else fails, you can always fall back on brutal honesty: “That shit you do where you stroke the back of my hand is driving me fucking crazy” – say it with a frown and a little fake anger – and if you’re a real Alpha [and if you think you can whup the bartender’s ass] then you can include some body contact like pulling her hair.

        Then you immediately flip back around to lying again: “And if my parole officer finds out that I’ve been having animalistic sex with a waitress in a bar – while I was carrying a revolver, no less – then I’ll have to go back to prison. And I ain’t going back to prison…”

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      • on January 8, 2013 at 10:00 am Matthew King (King A)

        Yeah, that’s what I suspected. Thanks for your input.

        No. Not this.

        First you let the waitress frame the situation, then you let a pseudonymous commenter reframe it. Then you thank her for it! Carpe Compagem. Seize the Frame.

        Assume the sale, son. Yes, she likes you. Everyone likes you, how couldn’t they?

        Seventy-five percent of a woman’s judgment is the man’s judgment, firmly presented. Leave perception up to them and they will find a way to make it work against you — indeed work against reality itself.

        They want to be told what to think. You have to have the balls to tell them — everywhere, to everyone, in every situation. It is a state of mind. Let them do all the struggling. Set the tone and thereby challenge others to reset it.

        Matt

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    • on January 7, 2013 at 3:50 pm Jumbobeef

      1, She is interested (The first thing you need when you want to date with a chick).

      2. She knows that what she is looking is what she is liking, the careful touch of a hand on another man’s hand is a signal to invite some love sparks (Maybe not love from your side but she does seem to think something different about you), the unusual way or rather a exotic way to welcome you is rather saying that she prefers you more than a customer.

      3. The interest she has in you when without your knowledge she learns your name, the interest she has in you is not some waitress doing her job but rather something different, she is practically trying to clue you onto some hints of what she wants from you or what she thinks about you.

      Now how to start something with her, i would presume you call her on her antics, tell her how she knows your name (You know how she knows it but the initial question might confuse her from giving an appropriate answer and would give you the opener you need and maybe the conversation would start, you can catch up with her without any game needed because obviously she is already interested in you, Dont be intimidated it will cause her to lose the interest in you if she feels the fear from you, Be pretty much open, act like you want her but with a different taste.

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    • on January 7, 2013 at 4:18 pm Stuki

      Always alone at bar is not DLV, unless you’re an obvious alcoholic, or are always being clingy and looking for someone, anyone….

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      • on January 8, 2013 at 9:44 pm driveallnight

        Agreed. From a former bartender.

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    • on January 8, 2013 at 2:20 pm Sugar

      It is a misconception that IOIs mean anything more than you have 5 seconds of a girl’s attention. IOIs are bullshit, especially from hired guns, in the sense that anyone can get them.

      The true test of attraction and interest is compliance. So start asking the waitress to do stuff for you, and see if she complies. Start out small, but ask for something that she would feel obligated to give you/do for you as your waitress /friendly acquaintance.

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  7. on January 7, 2013 at 3:14 pm Madvillain

    Does all this sound gay to you? Ok, Stoic Alpha Male Lumberjack, it’s way gay for you.

    I’m glad you preempted these guys, the ones who are so alpha they can’t
    show any emotions and can barely even move. Even breathing is beta. They’re wheeled around in a throne with breathing tubes and chicks throw themselves at the them.

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  8. on January 7, 2013 at 3:19 pm taterearl

    It’s posts like this that will poke the bubble of the MGTOW.

    You are sitting on the sidelines. I have more respect for guys who at least make an effort…even if it is bad. Instead of throwing rocks at chicks from their safe place.

    And I stuck my tongue out at a chick before…third grade game works with girls.

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    • on January 7, 2013 at 7:22 pm immoralgables

      Hey man I just wanted to say that I agree with a lot of what you say on here and Rational Male.

      In regards to throwing rocks at chicks, I feel like it’s very easy to do so once you hit your peak-SMV and when a girl hits the wall. Truth of the matter is, even though I may be winning right now as I turn down a girl who spurned me back in high-school/college, I DID NOT win if I didn’t nail her during her peak years.

      That’s the way I see it. Shit, I do get a bit of a chuckle and enjoy the plight of some of the girls who just coasted by on their looks as they get older. I would get more satisfaction from slinging cock at them in their prime than slinging rocks at them past their peak. But to me the only real victory occurs if you take a girl down during her peak-SMV. Anything else is semi-illusory pats on the back and mental masturbation.

      Happy New Year, btw.

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  9. on January 7, 2013 at 3:20 pm peckerwood

    Good series of posts. I got spoiled by being one of those doofy betas that was good looking enough back in the day to get approaches and looks. Made me lazy, waiting for eye contact IOI.

    I can see it now, local bars being full of dudes acting like it’s a playground, sticking out their toungues at every girl, like how the Game made every girl in LA hear the who lies more opener.

    Day’s 4th of July routine is the tits.

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  10. on January 7, 2013 at 3:21 pm JS

    I don’t think the ‘sphere places enough emphasis on singing. For me the ultimate pickup is singer/dancer who does everything through music and dance: I think that is the most primitive form of sexual display–mating dances and mating songs. I also think it is why dancing and singing are still so powerful in young, sexually active people. Just walk up and sing “Two out of Three Aint Bad” or some other sappy song. Or if she’s giving you shit, just cut her off and start singing while making strong eye contact..

    LikeLike


    • on January 7, 2013 at 3:26 pm Days of Broken Arrows

      Not sure what you’re saying here. But I’ll say that playing an open mic night or bringing a guitar to your dorm and playing on campus a lot are sure-fire ways to attract women. Another is playing in church.

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    • on January 7, 2013 at 4:25 pm Stuki

      If you sing, you have to do it decently enough to not come across as annoying. In a venue with competing, often insecure, males, that means singing well enough that they come off as insecure when they inevitably try putting you down. Pass that test, and you’re bloody golden. Fail, and you’ll come off as cheesy and try hard.

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      • on January 8, 2013 at 8:59 am thwack

        Stuki
        Pass that test, and you’re bloody golden. Fail, and you’ll come off as cheesy and try hard.
        ——————————————–

        now don’t go crazy and end up hung like a nigger.

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    • on January 7, 2013 at 5:45 pm grey_whiskers

      “I don’t think the ‘sphere places enough emphasis on singing. ”
      It worked for George Mulliner in the P.G. Wodehouse short story…

      LikeLike


      • on January 7, 2013 at 7:05 pm Mexican pete

        That was a classic. Another great PG wodehouse story about being alpha was about a weedy accountant who accidentally KOs the previously unattainable girl of his dreams. Since all her daydreams were of brutal sheiks and wicked barons, she falls head over heels for him.

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      • on January 7, 2013 at 9:37 pm Jason

        Yep. Good one.

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  11. on January 7, 2013 at 4:06 pm 22to28

    Simply put, if you are going to stare at a girl from across the room, you’d better off the impression of a king surveying his domain.

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    • on January 7, 2013 at 7:46 pm JonBrom

      I’ve done that, sometimes adding a sardonic smile and giving the Royal Wave, a few back handed rotations at the wrist moving hand toward her. It’s the kind of masterly insouciance woman love.

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  12. on January 7, 2013 at 5:29 pm Skunk

    How about slashing your finger across your throat when she meets your gaze? Too much?

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    • on January 7, 2013 at 5:35 pm Kate

      lol

      LikeLike


  13. on January 7, 2013 at 5:35 pm Nil

    Awesome post. A good reminder to keep your game… Well a game. It should be fun and lighthearted.

    LikeLike


  14. on January 7, 2013 at 6:22 pm J.M.

    Wow, it´s one of those posts that just puts in the mood to go out there and try! What I wonder though is, Would it work here in South America as well? (for job reasons I have been relocated here and need to improve my skills to get the best quality)

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    • on January 8, 2013 at 12:20 pm Gimenez

      It’s a great opener around SA, specially in Brazil. Girls are less bitchy here, even when not interested. The tongue thing is assured to get you a smile back.

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      • on January 8, 2013 at 10:30 pm J.M.

        Thank you anyways, even if it is in sarcasm Gimenez, with that said I will try it out for sure and see how it works.

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  15. on January 7, 2013 at 7:49 pm S_McCoy

    What about just winking?

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  16. on January 7, 2013 at 8:14 pm Anonymous

    You might not realise but women will often notice that you are looking around the room or venue at other women. Do this without approaching and it soon becomes a display or lower value (DLV).

    LikeLike


  17. on January 7, 2013 at 8:19 pm PIATTI

    never gave a shit about a girls interest .. it’s your interest that counts ..best to become the center of your own life .. the whole point is to get out of your head and 1st ..PLAY.. and 2nd develop yourself ..these two in equal measure till you are 40..

    a great way to do both ..taking acting classes ..if I lived in any city with theater ..I would ..it is awesome ..

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  18. on January 7, 2013 at 8:34 pm Dr. Zoidberg

    I like to whip it out and windmill at girls across the room while making it rain with hundred dollar bills. Too much?

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    • on January 8, 2013 at 6:40 am Hugh G. Rection

      Too much. It’s hard to make out the denomination from across the room, you could just make it rain with $1 bills.

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      • on January 8, 2013 at 8:49 am taterearl

        Or you could make it hail with pennies.

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      • on January 8, 2013 at 12:44 pm Matthew King (King A)

        Cheap Jew. Deluge em with dimes.

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  19. on January 7, 2013 at 8:59 pm Anonymous

    this is why i dont wear my glasses when i go out. it forces me to approach, if only to get close enough to tell if its a dude or a chick

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  20. on January 7, 2013 at 9:08 pm Anonymous

    A couple years ago, when I still smoked, a man walked right up to me on the street and lit my cigarette while I was still digging through my cluttered purse for a lighter. He turned away without even giving me time to thank him. If I hadn’t been in a relationship I would have totally pursued him down the street. To this day I still remember the adroit movement of his hands and how he put the flame right under my nose without causing me any discomfort whatsoever. He made eye contact for a second, but my cheeks were hollowed around the cigarette, so I couldn’t say thank you in words. Either way, he didn’t seem to care about gratitude… he was gone.

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  21. on January 7, 2013 at 9:25 pm Greg Eliot

    I just give the Sieg Heil salute… works like a charm, every time… the ladies love a fascist.

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    • on January 7, 2013 at 9:37 pm Head Man Upstairs

      Wow. He’s not even hiding it anymore.

      Where’s there’s smoke, there’s fire.

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      • on January 8, 2013 at 9:41 am Greg Eliot

        And where there’s a pole with a hook, there’s a sucker to be reeled in, sock-puppet alphie.

        LLLOOXOXOZOZOZOZOZOZOZLZLZLZLZLZLZOZOZOOOL

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      • on January 8, 2013 at 10:01 pm driveallnight

        Here’s a dollar. Go buy a sense of humor.

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    • on January 8, 2013 at 9:12 am thwack

      Greg Eliot
      the ladies love a fascist.
      ————————————–

      You got that right; the Hitler-stache is making a come back as we speak.

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      • on January 8, 2013 at 9:45 am Greg Eliot

        They also love the Little Tramp. 😉

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    • on January 8, 2013 at 12:29 pm taterearl

      Worked for Prince Harry when he was out Naziing it up.

      LikeLike


    • on January 8, 2013 at 1:12 pm Matthew King (King A)

      Who was it that professed an admiration for Salome?

      If you’re really silent, you can almost hear NiteLily’s pussy throb over the net. That’s why she talks so much. She’s paranoid of the shameful sound that would betray her secret fascist crush on Herr Eliot.

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    • on January 8, 2013 at 1:28 pm Matthew King (King A)

      Dinner at the Eliots’.

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      • on January 8, 2013 at 5:52 pm Greg Eliot

        Geez, that’s uncanny… a few more kids and a bit thicker accents, and sho’ nuff’, dat’s dinner at Schluss Eliot! 😀

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  22. on January 7, 2013 at 9:49 pm Anonymous

    Ok….what to do in idle situations? (e.g. waiting for bus, food, etc.) where one does not have the initial intention of meeting girls, but sees a hot one anyways?

    Or say, you dont want to approach that day, what do you do? Play with phone?

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    • on January 8, 2013 at 12:32 am Days of Broken Arrows

      If it’s an enclosed space, you better watch out, lest you get some loony like Skepchick who will be “offended” by your very speaking to her and put it all over the Web. (Google it if you don’t know about this.)

      If it’s like a bus station or something, arch your back (or touch your forehead) and ask: “Hey, do you have any Tylenol or something, I have this awful backache (or headache).

      As I’ve said on the Roosh forums, women are natural helpers and respond to those in need. You also need to ask an open-ended leading question after she does (or doesn’t) cough up the Tylenol: “Ever had a *real* bad backache?” Most women love to talk about their soap opera-like symptoms. You can also throw in that you were playing rugby (or whatever) and got injured, but try and do that if she *asks* what you did to hurt yourself.

      LikeLike


  23. on January 7, 2013 at 9:49 pm dannyfrom504

    I scored a quote?!

    Color me impressed. Thank you Brother.

    LikeLike


  24. on January 7, 2013 at 10:21 pm Libertardian

    OT: I can’t even do this justice by quoting, so I’ll just link.

    http://www.f2bbs.com/bbs/show_topic/781497

    LikeLike


    • on January 7, 2013 at 10:57 pm Heywood Jablome

      All I can muster is revulsion and a dash of pity.

      LikeLike


    • on January 8, 2013 at 12:43 am Serenety

      full of way too many great quotes…

      “Her single relationship asset, BEAUTY, is now gone”

      LikeLike


    • on January 8, 2013 at 6:50 am Hugh G. Rection

      Ramblings of an insane person.

      LikeLike


  25. on January 7, 2013 at 11:03 pm Anonymous

    No no no no. Id hate to see a neophyte actually try to pull this off because you won’t learn anything about game.

    Don’t be afraid to approach. Don’t wait for a woman’s smile or approval. NEVER be in a state of reaction.

    Initiate and lead. Be a man. Don’t sit around saying women are beneath you and then wrap your esteem in her approval. It reeks of irony and double talk.

    Go in, say hi, be fun (not entertaining but teasing), de discriminating and have good body language.

    But don’t teeter on the fence scared to get your toes wet. Jump in!

    LikeLike


  26. on January 8, 2013 at 2:07 am Creo

    I find entering a hopping bar or pub can always be a little indimidating as im usually sober and feel like im getting ‘whos the new guy’ assessed by the ladies as i walk in with a bud and get comfortable or look for a table.
    you dont want to look like some kind of George Mcfly shy guy, or maybe Roy Batter from Bladerunner commenting “gosh youve got alot of wonderful toys here..”.
    One slick friend of mine used to say he would look at the far corner of a bar where no one was and pretend a friend was there and breifly smile and wave in that direction.

    LikeLike


  27. on January 8, 2013 at 3:43 am Fluffy McGee

    My favorite non-verbal opener is to simply wave her over to me.

    If I catch eyes and get the feeling she really wants me to open her, sometimes I will just wave her over with my hand. If she hestitates, I continue and give her an “it’s ok” dumbguy smile. This works fairly often and in my opinion, is much bolder than approaching on foot, since you’re throwing all your cards on the table right then and there, and in a sense, you’re daring her to reject you.

    LikeLike


    • on January 8, 2013 at 8:15 am Hugh G. Rection

      How often does this work?

      LikeLike


      • on January 8, 2013 at 1:31 pm Matthew King (King A)

        “This works fairly often…”

        Ah, reading. Easy to learn, hard to master.

        LikeLike


      • on January 8, 2013 at 2:24 pm Hugh G. Rection

        That’s rather unscientific.

        LikeLike


      • on January 9, 2013 at 12:09 am Fluffy McGee

        Honestly, I usually only use this when I’m in an incredibly good mood and my energy levels are high, so I’ve never actually had it fail on me. I also have only used it in bar/club type social environments. They pretty much always except the invitation to come chat in these situations, but I would say it’s a risky move for the less experienced.

        LikeLike


    • on January 8, 2013 at 2:02 pm Matthew King (King A)

      Excellent alternative to the tongue, comic wave, and CH’s inscrutable face-making. See also, amused head shake. For when you’re not in clown mode.

      There is something undignified in being made to perform. shiva1008 says smartly in the last thread:

      Approaching women is a Demonstration of Lower Value. It basically says, “I know you wouldn’t give a shit about me otherwise, so I’m going to have to force you to pay attention to me.” Keep at it chumps.

      And CH’s general retort:

      Does all this sound gay to you? Ok, Stoic Alpha Male Lumberjack, it’s way gay for you. But guess which man she’ll be thinking about the rest of the week? That’s right, the guy who stuck his tongue out at her.

      Well, there is a limit. She also will be “thinking … the rest of the week” about the dude who stood up and slapped his scrotum down on the bar.

      [Heartiste: Style matters.]

      Depending on the target and her surroundings, subtlety is often the better part of hamster revving, especially if the rest of your vibe is working. Direct action demonstrates bravery, which is why brazen apploys for attention are overvalued among men, who honor bravery in itself above its practical application.

      The best observation was “in a sense you’re daring her to reject you.” You flip the script and make her the pursuer rather than the rejecter, if only to give her hamster a break and slake her curiosity. Also dannyfrom504’s shit test below: it weeds out or identifies the stuffy/insecure ones who require different tactics and approaches.

      Matt

      [Men and women perform for each other as decreed by the god of biomechanics, dignified or not. Men seek to impress women through displays of status or other desirable male traits; women seek to impress men through displays of beauty or other desirable female traits.]

      LikeLike


  28. on January 8, 2013 at 4:54 am Marcus

    This is because in nature woman are the choosers. Female mammals show their interest in males, males respond if female is healthy, female let the male chase her, and then the female let the male impregnate her at a chosen place and time.
    You see this also in nightclubs. Woman do in fact the initial approach (giving hints, eyecontact…). In social circles woman do the action. We men are not built to be very social. Woman are the connectors and talkers. They LIVE for keeping in touch with social networks.
    You can also say it this way: betas choose, alphas are chosen. And since all the hot girls are all attracted to a few alphas these guys have the choice they want. (ie groupies).
    This is also: if you talk to girls about “players” they don’t like the guys. Why? Approaching woman is so beta. The approach itself is showing their betaness, the man’s lack of options…, and woman disgust beta!

    LikeLike


    • on January 8, 2013 at 7:37 am Days of Broken Arrows

      This is a gross oversimplification of the mating process. With all due respect, did you take a woman’s studies course and learn this?

      Whatever “mammals” do outside of human’s isn’t completely valid to the human experience because we’re different than animals. From what I gather before we had civilization, the strongest men got the hottest women by force. Replicate that with actions and words and that’s the essence of game.

      And when females “choose,” the whole society goes to shit. Because women don’t know what the fuck they want half the time — or why.

      The concept of “approaching is Beta” is feminist bullshit, designed to put females in control of the mating/breeding process the same way they did with everything from abortion, to claiming asking a woman out in an office was “harassment” to broadening the definition of rape.

      Also, why is it than when animals do something that feminists find OK, studies are cited, but when you bring up the fact that animals rape each other they’ll say “we’re not animals.” As always, they want it both ways.

      LikeLike


      • on January 8, 2013 at 1:33 pm casaanova

        “Whatever “mammals” do outside of human’s isn’t completely valid to the human experience because we’re different than animals.”

        We’re not different than animals. We may be able to reason and show humility, but we still have the same biological impulses that all animals do. Never forget that. And THAT is why game works.

        LikeLike


    • on January 8, 2013 at 7:56 am Hugh G. Rection

      So your solution would be not to approach? Too beta? What is one to do instead?

      LikeLike


      • on January 8, 2013 at 7:59 am Days of Broken Arrows

        I think this is feminist trolling. I just wrote up a comment explaining why what he wrote is inconsistent and incorrect. Hopefully, the comment will appear at some point, since it vanished when I hit return.

        LikeLike


      • on January 8, 2013 at 4:33 pm Hugh G. Rection

        Either that or it’s some nitpicking over definitions of alpha, something King A. is also fond of and I don’t suspect him of being a feminist troll.

        LikeLike


    • on January 8, 2013 at 8:29 am taterearl

      Approaching takes confidence…which is the #1 thing women look for in a man.

      Betas don’t approach…they need somebody to do it for them.

      LikeLike


      • on January 8, 2013 at 10:00 am Marcus

        I’m very serious here. The #1 thing that woman want in a men is social status, not confidence. They are attracted to confidence, yes; because that is a result of being the respected dude. The guys that get the top woman are dudes that designed their lifestyle to be wanted by chicks. Go to the social playground (nightclub) and stand aside for a few hours and just watch the scene. You see players hitting on woman, woman having fun with them because they see them only as entertainment and egoboost. Ultimately the chicks approach the dudes they really want. I have noticed this again and again. For us guys who have not (yet) the right lifestyle approaching is indeed the only option that increases our chances but that doesnt make us alphas. We get the chicks that are mediocre; chicks that don’t stand a chance with the leaders. Leaders just sit back in their sofas and choose the best girls out of all the girls that makes their intentions clear. Denying this is denying reality. You would not be out there approaching girls if you had already a harem with topshelf chicks.

        LikeLike


      • on January 8, 2013 at 10:06 am Days of Broken Arrows

        No. From experience, women that approach are aggressive control freaks. The aggressiveness they show when they approach unfortunately doesn’t go away when you get in a relationship with them. I’ve learned this the hard way from first-hand experience. I wrote a comment as to why your original premise about all this is incorrect, but it disappeared. Maybe it will appear soon.

        LikeLike


      • on January 8, 2013 at 12:34 pm taterearl

        Second…every woman that has approached me has ended up that way. Guys that don’t approach and let the woman do it for them or need a buffer to meet a girl don’t have much game.

        I’m not saying social status isn’t a big thing….Rollo even mentioned that is one of the three things you should have (looks and game being the other two). But if you only have access to one…have game (confidence).

        LikeLike


      • on January 8, 2013 at 10:57 am Shoot Me

        From the standpoint of picking up a girl, I think Marcus is on the right track. I say this from my years of experience in the music industry. If you are the perceived alpha you end up getting to choose your playmate from several who compete for your attention. The backstage pass hanging around your neck is worth more than its weight in gold. To chase would make one look foolish and defective.

        Getting a girl of quality would require effort, but that’s an enitrely different story.

        LikeLike


      • on January 8, 2013 at 4:22 pm Hugh G. Rection

        You know why this was never brought up here before? Because it’s fucking obvious. Anyone who brings this up as if it was some kind of revelation to anyone here misses the whole point of what is discussed in this hallowed château.

        Now if you had a surefire way to become famous enough being an average man to not need any game I’m all ears.

        LikeLike


      • on January 9, 2013 at 1:56 am Days of Broken Arrows

        You can. Men do this is mini-form.

        Teach a class and you’re Alpha to the female students. Play an open mic night regularly and you’re Alpha to the local groupies. Start a business where you fix things and you’re Alpha to all the women in need. Run for the smallest of small government offices and you get the political groupies.

        Best of all, become a boss of some sort, get some people to boss around, and women come calling. One reason feminism is so lethal is because it seeks to disrupt the natural attraction of females to powerful men they work with, calling it “harassment.”

        LikeLike


      • on January 9, 2013 at 5:58 am Hugh G. Rection

        Well yeah, but I think I’d rather approach women than run for comptroller. In any case, it’s all relative.

        LikeLike


      • on January 9, 2013 at 12:02 pm Shoot Me

        What DoBA said. In addition, if you are not a great big fat person and have blue eyes, I would suggest a few weeks in Brazil. You will have all the confidence in the world after that trip.

        LikeLike


    • on January 8, 2013 at 11:07 am YaReally

      You are an idiot.

      LikeLike


    • on January 8, 2013 at 11:26 am Anon

      If your premise is true, chicks in nightclubs would go home exclusively with the top handsome alpha tall rich famous non-players. If there are lets’ say 200 people in the club, 100 women. These bitches would all follow the 4-5 male superstars.

      That’s 20 bitches per male. And honestly, I didn’t notice this phenomenon very often.

      Maybe they’re just settling for the player because their real target was taken. But how do you explain the overwhelming numbers of girls preferring to go home with players instead of rich alpha dudes, or cheating with players on noticeable males.

      Get off the pipe, and go out a little.

      LikeLike


      • on January 8, 2013 at 1:12 pm Days of Broken Arrows

        To build on your response and amplify what you just said:

        ANY celebrity or politician has scads of groupies. We know that. I work in one of these industries and see this first-hand. Hell, even clergy have “church groupies” ready to eff them. Any man with a podium or microphone is already pre-laid, even David Duke.

        That very self-evident knowledge is not the point of this blog, which is dedicated to helping non-famous men develop come cache with game.

        Furthermore, A LOT of women are smart enough to realize that if they get the attention of a DJ or rock star, they’ll only be his for the night. So women will often avoid these men. At rock concerts, every woman doesn’t go backstage — many go home with guys they met there. It’s these women we’re interested in dealing with.

        I’m convinced this is feminist trolling we’re answering to here, because the post is SO obsessed with the 1% subset of Alphas who get to choose they could only be female.

        LikeLike


      • on January 8, 2013 at 3:36 pm Marcus

        Don’t shoot the messenger. I’m ONLY verbalizing what I observe in real life. Groupies were just an example that can be extrapolated to the whole social construct. Alphas are the dudes who get the harems of the most beautiful woman. I just tell you how they meet. You need to have the courage to look at the reality without your own ego.

        LikeLike


      • on January 8, 2013 at 4:08 pm Hugh G. Rection

        I see, this is again a debate on the definition of alpha.

        In any case, you can call me alpha, beta, vega, theta, kurtosis, oxifampl or whatever, I’d still argue the far more worthwhile outcome would be to approach a woman successfully than to go home without a woman because approaching is too beta (or not alpha?).

        LikeLike


  29. on January 8, 2013 at 7:58 am dannyfrom504

    what i love about sticking out the tongue is that if a woman DOES NOT laugh or smile.

    you know you’re dealing with a woman you DON’T want in your life. she’s uptight and takes herself WAAAAAY too seriously.

    LikeLike


  30. on January 8, 2013 at 11:44 am Erudite Knight

    The rape culture crowd….what a joke.
    I recently wrote an article tearing them down amidst all this ‘nice guy of okcupid’. Here is a girl on okcupid that uses the rape culture to her advantage.
    I hope I took her to task enough: http://eruditeknight.wordpress.com/2013/01/05/the-girls-of-okcupid-pt1/

    LikeLike


  31. on January 8, 2013 at 11:57 am thwack

    I apologize for being so infatuated with Patrice O’Neal, but by the time I discovered him, this nigger was already dead; why didn’t any of you sorry mother fuckers turn me on to him?

    You all suck!

    This is a great one on one interview; half about game and the other half about race.

    You do realize those two things are linked?

    After listening to this interview, I come to this definition of “game”:

    Game = “the totality of all thought, speech and action I must engage in to guarantee NOBODY tries to abuse me FOR BEING A GOOD MAN!”

    I hope this definition helps stop all the “soul searching”, over thinking, and awkward attempts by guys to sell game to themselves…

    R.I.P Patrice

    LikeLike


    • on January 8, 2013 at 4:52 pm Hugh G. Rection

      Yeah he’s one of those niche comics, only ever heard about him by way of Bill Burr (one my favorites) after he died.

      There is a longer version of his statutory rape story he told on Opie & Anthony somewhere on youtube. It’s like a cruel joke being tried as an adult as a 17 year old for statutory rape of a girl under 18…

      LikeLike


      • on January 10, 2013 at 7:43 pm Kmoto

        Patrice O’Neal on O&A 19: Falsely Accused?

        LikeLike


    • on January 9, 2013 at 6:11 am Alexander

      “Game = “the totality of all thought, speech and action I must engage in to guarantee NOBODY tries to abuse me FOR BEING A GOOD MAN!”

      Very good definition.
      It verbalizes what i was trying to do with the game… But it’s sometimes hard to resist the power it sometimes gives you over the people…

      Caught myself feeling like a hot girl lol – everything becomes boring…

      LikeLike


  32. on January 8, 2013 at 11:58 am Lauren

    Heartiste and other PUAs, you think you’re just helping other guys by offering all this free advice, but it’s here for women to read too. It makes it easier for us to tell if guys are being womanizers 😉

    [Heartiste: …and fall more deeply in love with them.]

    LikeLike


    • on January 8, 2013 at 3:05 pm dannyfrom504

      Lauren-

      I’m not a PUA, I just know what works and hope to help guys that want to do better with women.

      I’d probably tell guys to avoid you regardless of how good you may look. And If you DON’T look good….that I wouldn’t try this on you anyway.

      LikeLike


      • on January 8, 2013 at 8:43 pm Lauren

        Was that a “neg”? 😉

        LikeLike


      • on January 9, 2013 at 5:51 am Hugh G. Rection

        To neg you he would have to be interested first. Doesn’t make a lot of sense to do it to some anonymous person online, we can’t even be sure that you have the ladyparts. That is to say: Tits or get the fuck out.

        I’d also say it’s quite probable that most of the ‘ladies’ here reading about men trying to get women are probably not experiencing a lot of it first hand in real life.

        LikeLike


      • on January 9, 2013 at 5:58 am Hugh G. Rection

        That by the way was no neg either, I genuinely don’t like you.

        LikeLike


    • on January 9, 2013 at 3:54 am YaReally

      o noes!!!!!

      The funny part is I can tell a girl exactly what I’m doing as I’m doing it and she’ll still be into me.

      “Guess what!! Girls wear push-up bras!!”

      “Well then, I’m never getting a boner when I see a chick with tits sticking out again!!”

      LikeLike


  33. on January 8, 2013 at 12:48 pm collapseofman

    “This is something they don’t teach in school and I don’t see it much in the manosphere either.”

    What’s up

    LikeLike


  34. on January 8, 2013 at 1:25 pm taterearl

    More beta rage.

    LikeLike


  35. on January 8, 2013 at 1:30 pm Zap

    The alpha mentality: http://boston.barstoolsports.com/random-thoughts/darnell-docketts-twitter-game-is-air-tight/

    LikeLike


  36. on January 9, 2013 at 1:02 am Lightning Round – 2013/01/09 « Free Northerner

    […] Some conversation tips. Related: Non-verbal openers. […]

    LikeLike


  37. on January 9, 2013 at 4:01 am YaReally

    Late to the party but I like to look at them friendly for a second and then make a scowling “wtf is your problem, bitch???” face and hand motions like I recognize them or saw them do something fucked up or they offended me somehow. She pretty much can’t NOT wonder wtf just happened lol

    All you need is for them to emotionally react to you, in a good way or a bad way it doesn’t matter. I like to start in a bad way because then I can tell them I was just fucking with them and change the subject and all the negative anxious tension she felt is relieved, which plays into giving her the “full range of emotions” she wants and a little drama, VS just all good emotions. The full range is important for the really hot ones because they don’t meet many guys who give them the full range, every guy is stepping tippy-toed around her trying not to offend her or make her feel bad or anything so the panic/anxiety of someone recognizing her in a BAD way makes her hamster shit a brick and she HAS to know wtf is going on.

    LikeLike


  38. on January 9, 2013 at 2:08 pm JKM

    Sub topic: Katherine Webb

    watch this video (http://video.today.msnbc.msn.com/today/50408071#50408071), the feminine imperative has, from her mouth, said:

    “Hot / Sexy” = derogatory words
    “Beautiful / Gorgeous” = non derogatory words

    These descriptors–although we may know not to use them for game–should it not enrage you that these compliments are now considered repulsive and derogatory in nature? What country and time do we live in that turns a form of compliment into disgust. If this interview doesn’t prove game is alive and kicking, nothing does.

    and for some reason the vast majority believes twitter following a Miss Alabama will get them that much close to sleeping with her. Been saying it all along, men should remove themselves from social media.

    LikeLike


  39. on January 9, 2013 at 8:15 pm Michael

    I just maintain the eye contact then proceed to sniff my forefinger and middle finger then lick my pinky

    LikeLike


  40. on January 10, 2013 at 10:58 am Getting “The Night Porter” AND “The Damned” into the same comments thread « Lucius Somesuch

    […] Not something you see every day, but King A fits them into this entertaining (and useful) le chateau thread. […]

    LikeLike


  41. on January 15, 2013 at 9:47 pm Just saying

    Larry Penii ? Is this for real !?!?!?!

    LikeLike



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