Khaaaaan has a post up about a German study which purports to show that the cuckoldry rate — situations where the presumed father is not the biological father of the child — in Germany is around 1%. (Via Glpiggy.)
A few words on that. First, misattribution of paternity can occur in any number of ways. Steve Sailer left some good comments over at Khan’s blog that illustrate in real life, flesh and blood scenarios how cuckoldry rates can be misattributed. Nevertheless, I’m not here to argue that the 1% figure is wrong. In fact, the 1% figure is higher than I assumed. Look at it this way: That recorded 1% cuckoldry rate is more than 30 TIMES the US recorded rape rate of 0.03%.
Besides the actual rate, there are other angles to this id-loaded topic that are worth exploring.
A flaw in assuming present-day cuckoldry rates align with historical cuckoldry rates is the fairly recent widespread availability of contraceptives and abortion. How many women who sleep with interloper males are using birth control? Probably most, and more so if those women are higher SES. How many are aborting the fetus, should contraception fail or not be used, before hubby finds out or is doomed to raise a child as an unwitting cuckold? Again, I’d guess most. That 1% figure may simply be a reflection of the fact that cheap and effective modern contraceptives bite into a possibly larger historical cuck rate. And since our sexual natures are the product of millions of years of fine-tuning, it would make sense for male jealousy and mate-guarding instincts to have evolved, especially if the real cuckoldry rate (and not just the “don’t worry, I’m on the Pill” shadow cuckoldry rate in which the act is performed but the consequence is averted) in the environment of evolutionary adaptation was considerably higher than 1%.
Or: Don’t start hedging your bets that women are no more than 1% evil.
Then there is the issue of serial monogamy. Serial monogamy is much more the norm now than it was in the past. Women on second marriages (or on post-divorce second dating lives) bring their kids from the first marriage into any new relationship. As much as the new boyfriend or husband might not want those bastards around him, he is going to participate in their raising in some form or another if he plans on banging out the mother for any length of time greater than two weeks. He is, in effect, a de facto cuckold, albeit an informed and, presumably, voluntary one. (Though the definition of voluntary is a bit loose when one is put in the position of weighing the odds of future fux against the pain of supporting present bastards. Duress matters if you are a desperate beta male willing to put up with snot-nosed shit to get some floppy, aged action.)
Women, too, are subject to unwelcome participation in the raising of unrelated children if they are in second relationships with divorced single dads, but in practice this punishment is not meted out to women nearly as often as it is to men, because it is usually the ex-wife who has full-time custody of her kids, or the single mom who is solely raising her hatchlings, and hence it is usually the sloppy seconds beta male who is getting the screws by groveling for sexual relief from these SMV leftovers.
So there are really two kinds of cuckoldry: De facto and deceptive. The latter is far worse from a moral calculus (it really is the equivalent of female rape, except the pain is dragged out over eighteen years) but the former is no less an indictment of the growing dysfunction of the modern sexual market.

There should be a death penalty for making a man raise a child who is not his without his knowledge. Or she should at least have to pay him back every cent he spent plus interest.
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lzozozozozozoz
thebiggest form of cuckoldery
is that all of ye are paying taxes
that go to single moms to raise
spwan of absenteee fathatz
lzozozlozozozozlzozoz
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lzoozzolzooz
the federal resevre leveraged women’z tendency to cuckold–their tendency to long for alpha fucks and beta bucks–and institutionailed and sanctfied it in the welfare/warfare state.
this is because the classical judeo christsian tradition is not very good at transferring assets to bankers nnor allowinthem to butthext your future wive’s asses in college where tehy ban great books for menz knowedge zlozozlzol
and so the central planners must eradicate god and a man’s natural rights and his poperty rights
so they empowered women with fmeinnisms as siad, “hey ladies we’ll give you all the slpha fucks in your butthoel you want, just as long as you help us coolect all the beta bucks you’ll need for your hair makeup and bastard childrenz spawn’z ritalinz prescriptionz lzozlzlozolzlzoz”
lzozozolzlzzzlzzozo
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Money is fungible. All my taxes go to pay for drone killing machines.
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lzozozlzl yah da welfare and warfare STATE ar eone and the same htingz zlzolzozoz
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/s What is the point in killing drones? Let’s face it, the human is and always will be superior to a machine in the most crucial feature. Hope.
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lzzozoozoz
hey i just thought of a brand brand brand new hit song with da line “cuckold da betas cockhold da alphas!!!” lzozozozozozzl
“da professional womenz ode”
alpha fucks and beta bucks
dat is how we roll
da butthexting cockass we fucks and sucks
and in our anuthes it doth deosul
alpha fucks and beta bucks
it is da way of da fed
to transfer assetss to dose who butthext
cuckold dose who pay for our bread
beta bucks and alpha fucks
it’s what day teach us we;’re entitled too
da assetts from betas we plucks
after da alphas desol us through our hole for poo
lzozozlzzolzlzlzlz
cuckold da betas cockhold da alphas
datsz what day taught us in mba grad school
as da feiisnsits see no truth nor justice in their laws
and say da great books for menz was all fools.
yes, yes, i did very good on my gmats
dey bernenakifed my soul away, left me with cats
zlzlzzozozozo
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GBFM saying it sideways, but saying it right.
We are all paying for other men’s kids now. That is the whole game of income redistribution.
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Don’t make up any more silly laws than there are already. Much better to get rid of the idiotic ones already on the books and enriching bureaucrats and lawyer scum every day. Just get the government and laws out of family life altogether. As in, whether you want to give your wife the death penalty or not depends on you. And her. And perhaps yours or her families. Not tax feeders and ambulance chasers.
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I’m not sure I buy your logic here, Heartiste. By your argument, all adoptions are ALSO voluntary cuckoldry, and I think that goes a bit ad absurdum. Help me out here — where’s the line drawn between agency and victimhood?
[Heartiste: Adoptees are genetically unrelated to both adoptive parents.]
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“By your argument, all adoptions are ALSO voluntary cuckoldry”
Well according to feminists all sex is voluntary rape?!?!?
(although do note; I do agree with them somewhat as the sexual union between a man and a woman has the man as the dominator/aggressor and the woman as the submitter/aggressed-upon. And all healthy sexual relations between men and woman take the form of this dynamic. This is the way it’s meant to be in pretty much all male and female mammals.)
“where’s the line drawn between agency and victimhood?”
When fraud or moral outrage/disgust enters the equation.
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Right. And that’s my issue – cuckoldry includes fraud. Marrying somebody who already has a kid doesn’t.
Don’t care what the feminists think, though. Caring about what feminists think is a gateway drug to insanity.
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” And that’s my issue – cuckoldry includes fraud.”
Not necessarily, there can be such a thing as willing cuckolds. It’s a fetish in fact.
And a man would still have ‘cuckold’s horns placed upon his brow’ whether or not he consented to his wife’s affair prior to or after conception.
Therefore, it can’t be the deceptive aspect of fraud that is necessary for cuckoldry, instead it is just the inequitable or immoral aspect that is necessary for cuckoldry.
Therefore I change my answer from fraud or moral outrage/disgust, to just moral outrage/disgust.
Fraud=inequity + willful deception
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Wasn’t aware there was a fetish for it. Weird. But I’d be plum shocked if that accounted for the numbers.
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Caring what WOMEN think is a gateway drug to insanity.
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Pffft. Dude, you can game a woman without hating on half the species.
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1% Spawn, 60% Cheat
http://happybachelorsforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1604
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>>>>it really is the equivalent of female rape
more like rape/slavery. it has happened to two of my friends. they accepted it. too much trouble legally, too many extended family issues, and the relationship with the child. they both ended up divorced though and are now with women with kids. idiots.
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one of them pays child support to his ex and the biological father.
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Rather than shaming women, which is simply trying to wag the dog; focus on shaming these kind of guys. Make them feel like their life is f’d forever, they have nothing left to lose, they are no longer even human, and it is all the fault of the police state that facilitated their one life on earth being destroyed this way. Then, perhaps a few of them may end up doing something useful with their life, perhaps even becoming heroes to future generations.
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It’s true that men need to be shamed much more than they are. Men who comply with shrewish, cunty, slutty women need to be mocked as the pathetic fags they are. Men shaming women never seems to have an affect on behavior; only intergender shaming seems to work.
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While I’m tempted to say that you’re right, because what you’re saying makes sense, similar studies from far more primitive societies (sub-Saharan Africa) show similarly low rates, even among the Bushmen.
By-blows, paternal age, and all that. | West Hunter
While those numbers could easily be wrong, it does suggest that the problem is not as simple as you suggest.
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Thanks, I almost went into a beta white knight relapse after seeing the real numbers.
But jesus man, only 1%? Bitches can do better than that.
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Or maybe there should be some sort of legislative reform where a woman who has misled and/or duped the man can be legally coerced to pay said man retroactively for all pecuniary and non-pecuniary “losses” that he has incurred prior to him becoming aware of the legitimacy or lack thereof of his paternity. Also maybe paternity testing should be mandated as part of the standard birthing process. I sure would hate to have a son that gets screwed into raising a child that is not his.
Great to be back in the Chateau…er I mean..office….long a$$ day and a half trial that involved some crazy prep time….back to office for the next couple of days! 😀
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The law will not avail us. That kind of femme/lawyer think is what created our absurd sexual harassment laws.
Put the trial behind you. You are safely delivered from that world, free from that hard-edged mindcrime prison. Relax in the pillow lounge and hookah haze of Le Château. We plot and fuck and plot to fuck here, bayan.
No depositions, no trial strategies. Just look good and titter and giggle like you most want to.
Matt
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….e-puffs on hookah #feelsgoodman
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Progress
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/greenpolitics/legal/9798650/Husband-tricked-into-believing-wifes-children-were-his-awarded-25000-damages.html
Thanks to Dannyfrom504*
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@petiteolive: is your fb account down?
@matt: “We plot and fuck and plot to fuck here” is a terrific turn of phrase
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@ Yeakokcool….nah, but I am rarely on it….Y U ask?
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because i have been stalking you online… and in person.
nah, just joshin’. because i thought you might have fucked up and posted your status update about your day here rather than on fb
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….since I don’t go on fb or visit other online blogs, I thought CH might be the right forum for my life updates….y’all becoming my little online dysfunctional las familia lol
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i call dibs on the cool older brother with a bitchin’ car, serious boundary issues, and total disregard for incest laws
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that was a good one
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lol
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its generally been an MRA position to make DNA testing mandatory, but it is bitterly opposed by feminists, not least in Germany, where there was serious talk a couple of years back of making someone criminally liable for seeking to test their child if they suspected they were not the father.
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Of course it would be opposed by feminists….wanting to eat and have the proverbial cake… The slogan for modern day feminism should read: “We are all for equality; So long as it is always in our favour” and Germany….what ever happened to thee? (Rhetorical Question)
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Great: PetiteOlive is a lawyercunt.
Just what we need, in addition to Lily and Neecy and Rappacinis Daughter and…..
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I am trying to be reformed….#keepitmoving
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Too late: you are already damaged goods.
Next.
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Totally irredeemable, I agree. But stop being so blunt! I’m trying to get her to embrace the despair so we can pass her around like a toy. I’m like this close, so don’t blow it with your crass interruptions of Truth.
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errrrrr its whatevs man
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Are you drinking?
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@ Matt…up for work…contemplating having some shots….
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“so we can pass her around like a toy.”
Why the parasitic behavior? 😯
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@Terts, Most people I admire seem to be damaged to an extent, I find them much more interesting and your comment, more of a compliment.
Reformed = taking red pill. Prior to CH, blue pill was all I was exposed to. IRL I am used to getting what I want; it gets boring. I also admire Heartsy’s writing style and his kind of intelligence is refreshing.
2 dates lined up for the weekend, engagements I unilaterally ended, only time dumped was when an alpha ex moved to Asia for work…didn’t stop him from blowing up my phone (still is)…get the picture? I might be damaged goods but lack of suitors will never be my problem…at least not whilst I am still in my mid twenties. Meh…If commitment/marriage is all I am after I can get that in weeks…literally. I mean, it is really not that hard. I just want to be with the ‘best’ (have a feeling ‘best’ is amongst dates this weekend) and when I start dating ‘best’, I would be reformed enough to a) project less masculine vibes i.e. not mention my profound love for scotch/football.
Anyway….Life update: 2:33am here in Chateau Olive, only 3 hours of sleep, have to read about 100 pages of transcript in 5 hrs for a meeting….maybe taking a few shots of whiskey might help.
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^^^ wow that sounded really cocky/cunty and like immoralgables would say….”sweet humble brag bro”…NOT the intention of the above post.
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PetiteOlive
@Terts, Most people I admire seem to be damaged to an extent, I find them much more interesting and your comment, more of a compliment.
””””””””
interesting point
like this ho i been with has been through shit that she should be insane had multiple dudes die over her pussy ran bunch of busineses had 6 kids done every drug known to man been a drug dealer been a counterfitter of money ran 8 million scams robbed the shit out of everything and just turned 29
what she gonna do for an encore
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Meh…If commitment/marriage is all I am after I can get that in weeks…literally. ”””””””’
yea it is funny when your with a chick used to dudes trying to give her their houses and shit and get married or do whatever she wants and you got her asking you for marriage and you say no or she got dudes paying her to eat her pussy and she asks you and you say no it really fucks with her head
i guess why it is game
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“….unilaterally ended….”
Even when discussing relationships you can’t resist using legalese.
God forbid you ever get married.
Lawyercunt indeed.
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And you can’t “take the red pill.” (Jesus must you aggressive women even attempt to appropriate male jargon? What’s next? You’ll brag about how much pussy you got this past weekend?).
You are a woman. You can administer the Blue Pill, but you can’t take the Red Pill. That awful prerogative is reserved for the boys only.
Sorry.
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@Terts,
its interesting to notice the kinds of male commenters who are more apt to intentionally attack/hurl insults at/complain about the females who post here without provocation.
However, unlike the aforementioned women you used as examples, I won’t partake in the back and forth pointless arguments and name calling implicitly and/or explicitly. I will reserve that for when I am actually getting paid to do it. This will be my last address to you but by all means….continue.
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“I just want to be with the ‘best’ (have a feeling ‘best’ is amongst dates this weekend)”
Oooh! Fun!
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You can take a whore out of the brothel, but you can’t take the brothel out of a whore.
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@ Kate, yea…I am tres excited!!! I will keep you posted 😀
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Is everyone taking notes here? PetiteOlive is a live specimen to poke at for your enlightenment. As opposed to guessing about. She has volunteered herself for your study from a red-pill perspective. Try to learn something from her rendition of things rather than taking out your omega frustrations on her. (What an attention whore! etc.)
The way the MGTOW-types on this board regularly alienate women is a commentary on their personal demons more than the noble desire for a men’s club. A men’s only club requires a healthy respect for the sexual difference, which simply doesn’t exist anymore, except in the women who persist with their presence in places like these despite the junior-high playground vilification. Kate and Nicole and even M@y@ and BliteLily are assets. Not for what they say, necessarily, but for how they behave.
Cocky cunty is perfectly fine, even encouraged. Do your worst. I want you in your raw state.
Matt
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I thought people read me for my impeccable taste.
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It is impeccable. You taste like a peach.
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BlightLily???
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No, no. Step one is winning over Tertullian. He’s actually quite a good sport. Here’s your chance, or you end up on the list of the Terty Dozen 😉
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I am sure he is (a good sport)…you have obviously been here long than me to know who he is, I just don’t have the energy/time/care to go back and forth with someone who is attacking me unprovoked…. I am generally numb to attacks, name-calling or condescending tactics, part of my training and it just bores me reading something that is neither informative, valuable nor constructive.
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Very punny.
We are distinguished by our haters. When a certain kind of twerp can’t stand your presence or the thought of your existence, you know you’re doing something right. It’s the best, most genuine kind of feedback. The shittier they are, the more incompatible you are to their shitty environment, which means the worthier you are, the more you stand out and the more strenuously they must attempt to eject you.
Worthy people understand that discretion is the better part of valor and that silence speaks volumes, whereas die letzte Menschen react in such a way that they cannot help but express their resentment for being swatted away or worse, ignored. The more visceral, involuntary, and uncontrollable their hatred, the better the indicator that your passive provocation is substantive and likely spot-on.
I wonder if “whereas” a fancy-schmancy lawdog word too? That vocabulary item cost me fifty cents.
And what kind of vajazzled mons veneris is intimidated by a lawyercunt, by the way? I like bitches with teeth.
Matt
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“I like bitches with teeth.”
But let’s be honest – some bitches you can’t handle 😀
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“Or maybe there should be some sort of legislative reform where a woman who has misled and/or duped the man can be legally coerced to pay said man retroactively for all pecuniary and non-pecuniary “losses” that he has incurred prior to him becoming aware of the legitimacy or lack thereof of his paternity.”
In case you didn’t notice, there is no fault divorce in most states nowadays, and that’s at the crux of the problem. No amount of legalese is going to make the victims of adultery (male or female) get justice form the offending spouse. So a woman can get away with having a child by another man while her husband gets duped into thinking said child is his. This is fraud. There are frauds that also affect women in marriage, such as a cheating husband, which I don’t condone, but they are not as egregious and not on the same level of a cheating bitch.
So no amount of stupid legislation can help the situation, especially since marriage/divorce is a state matter, not a federal issue.
“Also maybe paternity testing should be mandated as part of the standard birthing process. I sure would hate to have a son that gets screwed into raising a child that is not his. “
Regarding paternity testing, that’s the only place men can win this battle with women. However, only if there are enough activists that can have it adopted within a state. Hell, feminists have activists, why not male advocates? The current statute of limitation in most states for a man to challenge fatherhood is about one year. Once a year passes after a child is born within a marriage and the assumed father doesn’t challenge paternity, the child is assumed to be his. If a few states enact no statute of limitation on paternity, then most other states will follow suit and it will become the law in most places in the land. This way, at least a man doesn’t have to support a child he finds out is not his.
But of course, this will create heart-wrenching situations. What do you do if you find out 10 years later a child you loved is not yours? Do you stop support? And what will the innocent child feel if you stopped being his/her father?
It creates so much pain for so many people. The enormous pain this creates, is just one of many reasons why women cheating is so evil.
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“Women on second marriages (or on post-divorce second dating lives) bring their kids from the first marriage into any new relationship. As much as the new boyfriend or husband might not want those bastards around him, he is going to participate in their raising in some form or another if he plans on banging out the mother for any length of time greater than two weeks.”
very true, but at the same time. if you can win over the kid/s- you can set up a reliable pony for your stable. single moms are horny, and don’t have much time to spare. thusly- they booty call you when they have some spare time.
the soft harem here in NO are all single mom’s. the kids are tangential in my life. i offer ZERO support, and her being busy with them means i get a text when they’re free, do the deed, and i get back to enjoying the city.
use the situation to your advantage. she might have a kid or kids, but if she’s DTF, and register’s on you bangable meter- let’s do ‘dis Lucas,
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Yeah that probably applies more to the guy who is in a monogamous LTR with the formerly single mom.
Only risk for the player is of course that she sticks you with another kid.
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I believe there were UK studies quoted in The Red Queen showing that up to 20% of kids in married households in Reading, England were due to cuckoldry of the husband [Kids from prior marriages obviously not counted].
Surprised, thinking that maybe ‘fast city living’ was to blame, they also did a similar study in the countryside, and got the same result of ~20%.
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Those studies [and others produced here] also showed that women are more likely to get pregnant from their new lovers than their husbands.
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England… further down the socialist slimehole than we are, look at our future folks!
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English women have been fucking filthy for 100 years or more, there’s nothing new going on here. London became one massive brothel from 1943-45 or so, women flocked there (while their fiances were fighting the Nazi’s and Japs overseas) to whore themselves out to all the ‘exciting’ American servicemen. STI’s became quite a problem and the state of things ended up being discussed at the Cabinet level.
Not to even start on WW1, ‘white feathers’ and the like.
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The key problem with those studies is that, as noted by Razib, they tend to come from populations where adultery is suspected (presumably, this is often with good reason). Hence, they’re not representative samples.
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Still, there’s couples where the beta male doesn’t suspect he’s being cheated on, but that doesn’t really prevent it from happening and makes the cuckoldry even more stealthy.
I think 10% is a fair assumption..
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Nope. See the evidence above.
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IIRC, Matt Riddley put it at 5% the number of children who did not know who their actual father was. That would include children of rape, bastards, etc.
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And IIRC, that 5% is world wide, accross cultures, which means cheating is hardwired into all humans.
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i dunno, heartiste. deception is at the very heart of cuckoldry. the situation of a man going in with his eyes open cannot be likened at all to it.
[Heartiste: That’s why I wrote that it is not morally like deceptive cuckoldry at all. Please read first before commenting.]
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The Mayo Clinic puts it at over 10% of the kids they get in, they counsel the parents BEFORE doing DNA looking for transplant matches etc.
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They do that in German too. But just because you are not able to donate bone marrow does not necessarily mean that you are not the father of the child. It is fairly common that parents are not suitable donors for their children. That is the reason why there are databases where a patient can look for a HLA-match. The hospital where the study was conducted has a fairly small database, there are bigger ones in Germany.
Another thing is that the doctors are not obliged to tell the assumed father that he is in fact not the actual father. They will only share their knowledge if one explicitly asks about it.
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that’s not just for organ or donor testing, a lot of conditions are tested for genetically then they determine who passed the gene…
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I knew a genetic counselor, apparently cuckoldery is so common they take a class that teaches them how to handle the situation. she said it happens a lot.
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Cuckoldry is common in the same way that rape is common.
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rape, the other white meat
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The empowered modern woman’s fantasy: alpha spawn, beta support. Thank you, sex-positive feminazis and Sex and the City.
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The empowered modern woman’s fantasy: alpha spawn, beta support. Thank you, sex-positive feminazis and Sex and the City.
No, the empowered modern woman’s fantasy is alpha dick and alpha support, possibly with adopted spawn.
As others have brought up, cuckoldry with kids has probably declined due to DNA testing, contraception and abortion. I wonder if easy divorce has played a part as well. When it was shameful for a woman to divorce, and alpha might have risked knocking up a married woman, knowing that she would stay married to her beta. Now the alpha would risk her getting divorced, expecting to get married and running the risk of child support.
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And on the female side of the coin, maybe women who aren’t happy with their beta offspring are getting divorced in the vain hope to get an alpha.
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That rationalization is so delusionary that it merits some kind of award.
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One psychology study I would like to see to refute the ‘cuckoldry isn’t equivalent to rape’ crowd would be to hook men and women up to MRI’s and have them imagine those scenarios happen to them and see if the regions of the brain related to emotional pain light up and to what degree or magnitude they light up. Also might be worthwhile to take saliva and or blood samples to measure cortisol before and after.
Any researchers out there reading this; do this study!
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OT Lindsey Vonn apparently just blew our her knee on the slopes today.
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I think contact with someone else’s children is influenced by how much, you, yourself, like children and whether you have any of your own. Naturally, I understand, a man doesn’t want a perpetual physical reminder of a woman’s past, but, it seems some men are more okay with it than others. This can either be frightening- as in the case of someone I was getting to know on match who, in an exchange about what kind of movies we liked, told me his preferences and then said he’d be okay going to an animated movie with my daughter- or endearing- such as when a good friend invited us to go to Disneyland.
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This is true. I like kids myself and could be talked into marrying a woman with a kid if I were single. BTW, the man you mention above probably didn’t mean anything bad by his offer, he may have even been thinking of all of you going together and it came out wrong.
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You’re right. It just spooked me. I don’t bring her up and I hardly knew him.
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Moses doesn’t understand why any man would marry a woman with spawn baggage from another man. There are so many single women without children out there. Unless, of course, the man is a lower beta who cannot get a woman with a virgin womb.
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Moses, if a man has a child from a previous marriage then he should be Ok marrying a girl with a child. And women with children should only look for men with children. It’s better if both are in the same boat. It makes things more harmonious.
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Kate demonstrates another excellent reason to avoid women with spawn. They’ll accuse you of being a child molester.
{Heartiste: The upside is that single moms will typically put out faster. yeah, yeah, I know, single moms will claim until the cows come home (already halfway there) that they aggressively vet their dates for compatibility with their hatchlings, but my experience in real life accidentally dating a few single moms refutes their claims.]
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I didn’t call him a child molester. lol The point is that you don’t discuss your children with a potential guy until say, you’ve have a few dates with him.
[Heartiste: That’s borderline fraud, if by “don’t discuss” you mean “don’t reveal”. Not that there’s anything wrong with that in the thunderdome known as the sexual market. I’ve dated a couple of women who hid their spawnage from me until the third date, when all thrusters were programmed to fire, and my disappointment was so overwhelming that I walked away from them… but not until the deal was sealed!]
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Oh, Heart’s Ease.
[Heartiste: …parting knees]
When will you learn to trust me.
[Trust but verify.]
Its listed on my profile in plain site.
[I don’t read profiles.]
Its just not a relevant topic of conversation early on.
[Ok, that’s what I thought you meant. And that’s a good strategy, intentional or not.]
I answer questions that they have and sometimes they run for the door. *sigh*
[It’s a cruel, cruel, cruel, cruel, cruel world.]
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grr *sight* not *site*
[Heartiste: You should grr more.]
The whole point of dating is to take a break from your responsibilities.
[I thought it was sexnlurv?]
Why discuss them.
[Why *do* them?]
I do think its wrong to hide the fact that you have children.
[Maybe, but I understand the impetus to subterfuge.]
All I’m saying is you don’t force it in front of someone’s face.
[You do if it’s your tiggies.]
You didn’t for instance need to know that I was just on bus stop duty.
[This had better be a euphemism.]
For all you knew, I was lounging in bathing wear while pool boys fanned me with palm frawns.
[Also a euphemism?]
Parting Knees is now your official Native American name.
[I’ve gone native.]
signed,
Sitting Duck
[Crouching gina.]
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LMHHO. Darn 😦 Time to dress for dinner. (no eupho)
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Kate, there are definitely quality men who would not mind dating a solid woman they fancied with a kid or two especially if kid(s) had one father. The distinguishing factor is that they are doing it with eyes wide open…..I don’t see the problem in that case. My ‘beef’ is with women who in the course of their relationship with a man, step out of that relationship to sleep with a different guy consequentially getting impregnated and then making/leading the first guy to believe he was the father….I mean for the love of all that is moral!.
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Olive: Of course. That this even has to be explained is a problem.
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whether you called him one or implied he was or just thought it, the point stands, and who needs that shit? safer to just have a hard and fast rule.
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The Lord knows that Moses has had the same experience with single mothers. They put out early and with bucking enthusiasm.
Moses concluded, however, that single mothers’ #1 priority is landing (or trapping) a man for resource provision. Unclean. Not worth the risk.
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I think it’s correlated to SMV. The lower your SMV is, the higher is the likelihood you forgive major flaws. Say the best you can do in the field is a 6 but you can pick an 8 online who’s handicapped with a child, that might be a worthwhile trade-off.
Of course you can torpedo your chances pretty quickly if you come off as a creep like the guy you mention.
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Does this mean the man would be a six? And, if so, what are the signs of a male six?
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Probably. A man’s SMV is derived from the women he sleeps with.
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6″, obvs.
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You’re getting sloppy. I expect full sentences from you.
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tl;dr
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?
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.
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–
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8=====D
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Ctrl F yourself.
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8========D
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That’d make me a HB9 on your chart.
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See Kate is thin, so she will always have options with up to about greater beta.
Woman with one chin in the land of obese is Queen.
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See Kate is thin. See Kate has one chin. I feel like a Dr. Seuss book.
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There was actually a recent case in the UK where a man successfully sued his ex-wife for spent child support after DNA evidence proved he wasn’t the father. I’d cite the source, but I’m out at the moment.
I’m sure the readers will Google bomb it to verify though. Lol.
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I think I heard about that. He was a factory manager that won a grievance suit against his ex-wife after learning her THREE hellspawn were in fact not his. I mean, damn, that’s cuckoldry if the highest order.
Also, how was this 1% rate determined. I imagine the rate in the US is much higher, it’s just that most men never find out how much they’ve been duped by their Amerislut wives.
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I saw that too, but I can’t find it now.
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/greenpolitics/legal/9798650/Husband-tricked-into-believing-wifes-children-were-his-awarded-25000-damages.html
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Over at GC’s blog “West Hunter”, he’s really worked up about people thinking that the cuckoldry rate is higher than it actually is, for reasons I’m not quite sure of. I mean, certainly we need accurate data on this, but i’m not sure that people thinking that 5% of women cuckold their husbands when the actual figure is around 2% is really all that important. Hell, 2% still seems pretty high to me.
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In countries that allow testing, 50-60% of paternity tests, which are nearly all done by fathers who are already suspicious, show the mother’s official partner is not the father.
The average number (in “modern” societies) is of children fathered by someone else than a woman’s official partner is around 20%, with up to 40% for the working class and poorer. Upper classes tend to have 10%, but they are much fewer, so the most common rates are 20-40%.
Some researchers did a simulation involving the benefit from genetic diversity and the cost of being found out, and the best rate of extra-pair paternity for the mother was around 20%, which matches the results from most surveys, so women “instinctively” choose the optimal rate.
One reliable source is the recently published “Oxford Handbook of Sexual Conflict in Humans” which reports on page 295 (available from Google Books):
“Current estimates of extra-pair paternity in humans are between 1%-20%, with most estimates at about 10% …. A survey conducted in 1999 by the American Association of Blood Banks reported that as many as 30% of children are fathered by extra-pair copulation“
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I love the bonus throwback posts that come through on my Google Reader.
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“How many women who sleep with interloper males are using birth control?”
Way less than most people would probably hope lol Just because it’s available doesn’t mean girls use it. LOGICALLY, they should, but we all know how logical women are.
Half of them fuck up taking the pill properly, half of them just believe magically that they can’t get pregnant or were told by a doctor that it’d be difficult because of a tilted whatever and they’re just hoping that’s 100% accurate, and half of them just want to feel the raw cock of an alpha male inside them since when they fuck them they’re so attracted that it’s all part of the excitement.
I can’t count the number of guys who’ve confirmed with me that they’re the ones who have to enforce using a condom with random one-night stands etc. and the chicks are the ones who are trying to just stick it in raw. Social conditioning told us all that it’s guys that try not to use a condom and girls who want to, but that’s not the case at all in the real world.
“How many are aborting the fetus, should contraception fail or not be used, before hubby finds out or is doomed to raise a child as an unwitting cuckold? Again, I’d guess most.”
Way more than most people would probably hope lol. Let’s just say my buddies and I have stories. 😛
I’ve been in the position a few times where a girl with a husband/fiance has WANTED me to get her preggers and have him raise the kid unknowingly. Like this is sometimes a conscious plan on her part, but more often it’s a scenario that she’s simply “not opposed” to, so she’ll try to fuck me condomless or get lazy with her birth control or stick it in for round 2 when it’s still covered in cum from round 1, or she’ll aim my cock at her pussy when I cum, or she’ll grind against it with her pussy afterward, etc. These are all “passive” ways of trying to get pregnant, where her hamster can disconnect responsibility and tell her “oops!! it wasn’t your fault, it just happened!!” and she can execute the plan with a mostly clear conscience.
It’s too risky legal-wise on my end, so I wouldn’t do it, but this is a thing that happens more often than the MSM or Feminists will allow people to believe and I know there are guys out there who aren’t as cautious/paranoid as I am about avoiding it. I literally have a Natural buddy who’s already accepted that one day his banging career will end when he gets some random one-night stand pregnant. He has already, twice, and mind-fucked them both into getting abortions, but he knows sooner or later he’ll fuck himself over and get trapped.
This is all happening behind the scenes, people who aren’t a part of the “Secret Society” don’t have a clue this is going on under their noses. Don’t shoot the messenger lol
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you writing “lol” after stuff that isn’t funny kind of annoys me lol
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Humor is subjective. 🙂 If you can’t laugh at the absurdity of the world, you’ll go insane.
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zlzoozzolzozozo
yah and my zlzoozzlozolozozozzl is da humor which laughs at the immorl, morality-free fatherless unmanly fanboyz like yareally who just go “lol” after all da buttehxtieueatl masive uttehxt in da butetehxllozlzllzozlozoz
for the greatest makr of a man is his moral sense of RIGHT ad WORNG
and oenely after he has elanered and enerned can he go lol lzozlzlzozlz
zlzozlzzlzlzozozozoozzlozzozloz
this generation has been taught to lol
at adultery
at fornicationz
at theft
at butthext
at fucking other menz wives
at fucing other menz future wives
at buttcucking othe rmenz future wives
and then go
lol
da GBFM recoginizesz this and so he goes lzozozozooozzozozoozozozlz one-upping all those who lol as d GBFM zlozlzlzozolzllzzl sveieves DA CLASSIC JUSTIVCE OF THE GREAT BOOKS MOSES THUNDER SZEUS’Z LIGTHING which once prevented men from fucking otehr menz wivez and going “lol”
i dat you all udndnenrtannsdz betetr now zlzoozozolzoz
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@yareally: you missed a golden opportunity to just respond with the word “lol” hahah
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Wow JMG I never looked at it that way before. Thanks for the feedback I think you speak for all of us commenters here who’d agree that YaReally never added any value and that his lols completely destroy the message he is trying to get across in his comments.
You really should post here more often, a lot of us readers are really looking forward to what you have to say.
Best,
No One, Ever
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butthurtness is not alpha.
being another commenter’s e-bodyguard is not alpha.
please stay safe, immoralgables
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Nice one bro I thought for a min that you were going to reply with another worthless comment
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immoralgables, master of sarcasm
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lol
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I’m just going to leave this here:
http://www.craigslist.org/about/best/sea/274495936.html
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Pretty common scam in SEA. I’ve met at least 4-5 vasectomized guys over here who’ve had shady broads try that one.
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He’s a one-man DIY Maury Show. Too bad it’s fan fiction.
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Aw, man. I was so hoping that was real.
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Your wish was father, Rape-ccini, to that thought. What happens to your natural skepticism in the face of wanting something to be true? That story was like a reverse-rape fantasy that played on your sterility fetish. And it’s CRAIGSLIST, wasn’t that a hint?
I love women. Build them a dollhouse and they’ll let you put anything in it. Tell them a gibberish story with the right cadence, it won’t matter the subtextual content. Their fertility expresses itself somehow, no matter what they do to sublimate or sabotage it. Not being pregnant is the unusual condition. The periods between knock-ups are when you do the stupidest things — yes, the majority of your life — unless you’ve fooled your body into thinking you’re with child by the pill, or until you hit menopause when the lid blows off the crazy.
Matt
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“I’ve been in the position a few times where a girl with a husband/fiance has WANTED me to get her preggers and have him raise the kid unknowingly. ”
Yareally speaks the truth of the Lord.
Moses dated an engaged girl for a while once. The girl was marrying the dude because he was a good beta provider, not because she was attracted to him.
Moses decided to try an evil experiment.
During sex Moses whispered in her ear how Moses was going to give her a baby and she would raise it with the beta. It would be our little secret.
She loved it and went *crazy* in bed. The experience convinced Moses that cuckoldry is hard-wired into women.
Men — if you’re married get all your “kids” paternity tested on the down low right after birth. If it isn’t yours don’t tell your wife. See a good divorce lawyer immediately.
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If you count as cuckoldry whoring that does not result in pregnancy, you should also include men paying alimony/child support to ex-bangs that are now banging someone else. Those men are still putting i the hours to pay for someone elses child to be raised.
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Also on a slightly less depressing note: I’m personally interested to see how the whole single-mom phenomenon pans out down the road. More and more guys are clueing in that getting married is retarded because we can get sex without it and it’s a massive financial/life-altering/career-destroying/child-losing death trap when it fails as it likely will based on stats, with them powerless to stop it…
And yet, we don’t want to raise other dudes’ kids. So in like 10 years there’s going to be a shit-ton of women with kids and guys who don’t want to marry them or raise those kids because they aren’t their own…so what’s going to happen on a social level to fix this? I can’t even imagine a solution. There is literally no way you could convince me to get married with marriage and the legal system in general designed the way it currently is, and I definitely don’t want to raise some other dude’s kid…so how’s this all going to pan out?
Even the White Knights who are currently being brainwashed into believing that dating a girl with kids is a noble thing to do, will become a smaller and smaller group as more of them clue in over time.
I don’t do much Online game, but when I do, it’s ridiculous…any girl who’s above a 6’s profile starts with “First off I have a brilliant wonderful little son and he’s the center of my life and you have to respect that he comes first blah blah blah”. Like no joke, probably 70-90% of chick profiles are like that these days, it’s insane. Personally I never meet the kids of a chick if she has them…I tell the girl that flat out from the start. But I set a casual sex frame, so she doesn’t really expect me to do Provider shit like that anyway.
I don’t read much MGTOW stuff because, well, those guys are silly to me…but I ran across this post on one of their forums and I thought it was great and it aligns with experiences I’ve heard from buddies over the years:
http://www.mgtowforums.com/forums/deadbeat-dads-fathers-rights/510-dont-date-single-moms.html
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“So in like 10 years there’s going to be a shit-ton of women with kids and guys who don’t want to marry them or raise those kids because they aren’t their own”
The future is now. Hey, its a man’s prerogative to choose what he wants to be involved with.
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“Personally I never meet the kids of a chick if she has them”
I don’t either, because I tend to get attached to cute kids very quickly (no pedo).
Bless my little heart.
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Aw 🙂
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Wanna fuck?
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Swat!
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LOL
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I think we’ll soon see some smaller European governments pay men who live with single mothers either directly or by giving more money to single mothers who live with a man.
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they gonna make the dude living with her pay child support even after he leaves is whats gonna happen
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That is already the case in some US States I believe. The mother can claim you implicitly adopted the kid by “acting in a fatherly role”, it’s kind of a backdoor like common law marriage. I think it even works if the mom is already getting support from another poor sap.
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my state no common law marriage or that but shit can change
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This is already the case in the ghetto. The state make benefits for single moms easy and this helps them attracts males.
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Europe? That’s been the foundation of the matriarchal project culture in the US for decades. The single moms have the housing and the EBT card, the man is homeless the moment he displeases her. They don’t even give the guy a key – total control.
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Straight-up word of the Lord, Yareally. Do NOT get involved with single moms.
The only guys who may opt for single moms are the lesser betas who are unable to get an attractive, childless woman. In pre-Exodus days a low beta high-school friend of Moses wifed up a single mom who had a reputation for loving bad boys. He has a highly paid career as an engineer.
He got a child out of it (she looks like him so doubt a cuckold), although at the cost of paying all expenses to raise another man’s child and also provide for the mom (she had some low level HR-type job making little money).
There is no avoiding the brutal dictates of the SMV market, so sayeth the Lord.
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Alpha fucks and beta bux
Dat is how we roll
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i honestly cannot imagine “dating” a woman with kids. my brother dated this hispanic girl with a kid a year ago or so. both the mother and the kid were awful. so low class. i was so embarrassed for him when he brought them both into my father and mother’s home over the holidays. the kid wrecked the house and the mother did nothing about it. she didn’t even pay attention to the kid, so i guess it isn’t surprising.
unless a chick plans on being with the father long-term, she should get a shmashmortion so as to preserve her ltr viability with a high status male. i’d wager that almost no alpha male would elect/choose to be a single mom unless he is like 50 or something.
i will acknowledge that perhaps this becomes more difficult as you get older (late 20s here), but i doubt very seriously that i would ever get involved in a ltr with a woman already saddled with another man’s child. i like kids and all, but i’m not interested in spending any of my time or money on one not my own.
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“so what’s going to happen on a social level to fix this”
Already here. Welfare, plus generous tax deductions for children. In other words, single guys supporting the single mothers whether they want to marry them or not.
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Depressing…
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Non-virgin = Cuckoldress.
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thanks heartiste
but out f 400,000 testes the number of cuckholds was 30 percent
even on the child support sites it is 25 percent
that is why in canada if you look at the chicks kids they call you daddy you support them buy presents you can be liable for paying child support cause they know the real killer dads ain’t getting fingered or don’t have loot so they go after the sucker who dates her for a bit
in canada a chick can get child support from two diferent dudes or more for the same kid
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Watch babycakes!
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Ok so 1% of the cheating wives get pregnant from the other man,
fine
that tells us that some of them were not careful, nothing more
but what is the percentage of women who are unfaithful but did not get pregnant?
Some studies say about 60% of women have been unfaithful
I think these days it is more like 80% and getting worse every year…
Almost everybody I know – men, women, young, old, rich, poor, good looking, ugly etc etc – has either been unfaithful or was cheated on or knows someone who was/is
it seems most people are unfaithful
the fact all your kids are yours does not mean your woman is not fucking with another man
Sorry to rain on your parade
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Wow where are you getting your numbers?
I think this is a perfect snapshot of the prevailing beliefs around here.
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I got my numbers a few years ago from Men’s health magazine ( the actual paper magazine)
I don’t have that copy anymore and of course no links
Cheating is on the rise, women who work outside the home tend to be less faithful than stay at home wives/mothers
they also had a study that revealed that women told their doctor they had a lower number of sexual partner than they told the receptionist ( who of course was a paid ” actor ” )
those are not my beliefs or perceptions, they are facts, verifiable facts if one has the time and energy
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“those are not my beliefs or perceptions, they are facts, verifiable facts if one has the time and energy”
By all means do so, then.
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How many of you believe in Telegony?
If you believe in evolutionary theory, shouldn’t you also accept telegony?
Or is it easier to accept the possibility of 1000 monkeys tapping on 1000 keyboards for 1000 years and ending up with Shakespear?
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I’ll leave the physical aspects to Lysenko’s school of genetics.
But I firmly believe in psychological telegony… once touched, forever tainted.
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Well said.
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Please elaborate, why should I accept telegony if I “believe” in the theory of evolution?
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Please elaborate, why should I accept telegony if I “believe” in the theory of evolution?
————————————————
Because how is one of them any sillier than the other?
When you cum inside of a woman you are injecting her with a lot more than just sperm. In addition, even if the sperm fails to join the egg, what other effects are/is the totality of this male genetic injection having on the womans body?
Its definately foriegn material, why can’t it have an effect?
In contrast, the theory of evolution requires random mutations to eventually result in something BETTER (more complex) when in reality demonstrated thru the law of thermodynamics is that all systems tend towards disintegration (equalization).
To sum up, evolution requires a person to believe that if he took $10 in quarters and tossed them all up in the air, at some point they would all land “heads”.
This is what they mean by “random mutations”. Most mutations are fatal and at the very least result in sterility or some type of deficit…
If you don’t beat your meat, you can’t have any pudding; how can you have any pudding if you don’t beat your meat?
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This was from some discussion about the possibility of some plant that is used to create biofuels turning into an invasive species because of the fast rate of growth that it had. This came from a comment.
In 2005, Susan Lolle and colleagues from Purdue University published a paper in Nature, concluding that Arabidopsis thaliana plants do not obey the laws of Mendelian inheritance (the idea that all genes are inherited from their parents). Instead, Lolle found that these plants were demonstrating genetic traits from older generations, which shouldn’t be possible according to our current understanding of how genes are passed on.
They found that a number of their plants compensated by apparently reverting back to an ancestral genome … They conclude that this kind of genetic instability could be explained by hidden information somewhere in the organism’s genome, perhaps even Lolle’s RNA cache theory.”
So maybe there is some validity in this idea of telegony. Weird shit happens with genes.
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. As much as the new boyfriend or husband might not want those bastards around him, he is going to participate in their raising in some form or another if he plans on banging out the mother for any length of time greater than two weeks. He is, in effect, a de facto cuckold, albeit an informed and, presumably, voluntary one. (Though the definition of voluntary is a bit loose when one is put in the position of weighing the odds of future fux against the pain of supporting present bastards. Duress matters if you are a desperate beta male willing to put up with snot-nosed shit to get some floppy, aged action.)””””””””””””””””
well i got 6 months before the full brood came over my house
only 3rd bitch i told i loved kind of rough i got an ouchie on my soul
she came over this morning and sucked the stripper saliva (i told her i went and got my dick sucked) off my dick and swallowed like a good girl on the carride back from clinic came back to house we fucked then she packed bunch of her shit and i dropped her at her moms. Asked me if i wanted her to cook me something i said no.
I said it was sad life can be tough told her she the only woman i ever told i loved that i didn’t marry
she said i wanted to marry you but you said you would never marry an american chick
i said we could of got married in another country
she said what we wanted out of life was diferent she wanted to be married to one man and raise her kids and wants people to know she married
I wanted two wives and not raise her kids
no shit he he he
talkin bout its not over just i said it was over she needs to find herself or something out of a lifetime movie.
she had a sucker bite on her neck i said yea its over
felt like killing her a little bit
but also had kind of predicted this relationship path on a graph and yea the de facto cuckhold thing was never appealing
i got to help a person i liked turn into cinderella somewhat so maybe i did a good deed
the strippers gonna come over she was asking where i been but it ain’t gonna be the same i don’t like the bitch lol
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are you related to gbfm?
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Probably the same pharmacist 😉
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just giving a view into the other side of the gbfm equation where the metal meets the meat
or maybe the meat meets the meat
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i was here before gbfm to he he he
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My guess is uncle-nephew.
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she wants to keep me in her rotation to go out with and fuck though
so i guess no responsibility for her no taking care of kids no staying at my house so i guess back to a perfect pua girl i just know she gonna have other dudes dicks in her as the compromise ahh
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so did i win i got no responsibility she came over when i pulled her over in the truck on the drive
started back into acting like my girlfriend
gonna come over tomorrow and cook me dinner and then i get t drop her off at her moms again
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didn’t kiss her though so yea i guess she gonna get treated like a whore
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How many of you believe in Telegony?
Usually when the Greeks and Romans believed in something that modern progressives “disproved”, that is strong evidence that the Greeks and Romans had it right
This case of telegony is clearly an exception. Recessive alleles were unknown to them, but not to us.
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[…] A flaw in assuming present-day cuckoldry rates align with historical cuckoldry rates is the fairly recent widespread availability of contraceptives and abortion. How many women who sleep with interloper males are using birth control? Probably most, and more so if those women are higher SES. How many are aborting the fetus, should contraception fail or not be Source: Chateau Heartiste […]
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On this topic, woman claims she got pregnant watching a 3D movie.
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The HBD comunity does not believe that female sluttery is on the rise. Of course adultery does not imply non-paternity (as they call bastardy these days). But there does seem to be a trend. Any comments?
BTW, check out Cochran´s blog on cuckoldry:
http://westhunt.wordpress.com/2013/02/04/elementary-my-dear-holmes/
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Actually it is far worse than 1%. The accepted rate is between 3% and 7%. A few years ago, the national blood bank released some numbers of some test it ran that showed a 20% discrepancy between children and fathers, and of course, the shit hit the fan.
They, along with other blood banks, retested and arrived at this number between 3% and 7%, normally accept by MSM as 3%.
There was an article about the ethics of doctors when the discrepancy is discovered that covered this information. The doctors took a “if not asked, don’t tell” policy. For the good of the child and all that.
The story told of a “father” who had a kid that really looked nothing like him and him being at a little league game where his “son” was pitching. There was some guy in the stands that was cheering loudly for the kid whenever he threw a strike. He looked at the kid, looked at the man, and noticed the kid looked just like the man. Then he looked at his wife, who was sitting next to him and the look on her face told him everything. He got up and left the game and never went back.
There is pressure from feminists to outlaw these voluntary DNA tests. The idea of men actually being able to determine paternity scares the shit out of them. But fuck it. There is a whole group of people called Biohackers that screw with this stuff and they have it down to where you can do sophisticated DNA testing in the kitchen sink. So banning the test would never work.
If that kid doesn’t look you, if you are not absolutely positive, I’d get this test done if I were you. Mine do so I know it. I am divorced and my kid is an asshole just like me, maybe worse, and he knows how to drive my ex-wife up the wall.
My mother used to say to me, “I hope when you grow up you have a boy just like you and then you’ll know what I went through”.
I did and my ex-wife has to raise him. Poetic Justice.
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Let’s do some math. Say 30% of wives have affairs. They have unprotected sex 1/3 of the time. Pregnancy occurs 1/3 of the times at best. The overall odds are pretty low.
Also can we please stop calling divorcees single moms? Well i laid a single mom in nyc (honky tonk women) doesn’t soundright!
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“Also can we please stop calling divorcees single moms?”
I have tried this and it just. won’t. stick! 🙂
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if you want to see a hamster really spin, here it is:
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/06/nyregion/police-killers-jailer-now-pregnant-with-his-child-is-charged.html?ref=todayspaper
you know, there’s something even sadder than the fact that you and I are now on the hook to take care of this murderous retard’s baby for the rest of its life. And that is that, at least judging from this one pic, the girl has potential to be pretty cute. Cute women are passing over billions of society-building betas to fuck murderous retards.
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But according to game, killing cops should be alpha cause its a form of risk taking.
[Heartiste: It may be alpha, but it’s also stupid and evil. Too many externalities. By the way, alpha does not necessarily equal admirable.]
Don’t you wanna be alpha too?
[Misleading extrapolation, yerhonner.]
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Relevant: http://gawker.com/5981904/pregnant-sexts-the-love-triangle-lighting-up-new-yorks-literary-world
The tipster continues, “[Paul Costello] found text messages between the two where Sarah cautioned Luke ‘Paul must never find out we were fucking during this pregnancy…he’ll hate the kid.’ Luke was having a torrid affair with Sarah during her entire pregnancy!”
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What about sperm donors in marriages where the male is infertile? Is that considered cuckoldry by proxy?
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Meh.
The ONLY guys who care about Cuckoldry
Are the chumps who get stuck with ONE woman.
Since the 80’s, THAT has been a Fool’s Paradise.
What is Game for, if not serial dating.
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