Reader Mailbag: Own Goal Edition

1. A reader wants to know if he blew himself out of the water.

Background
Her 18 (7)
Me late 20’s (7.5)

We have been studying alone together for the past few weeks both at school and her parents house. (Non dorm college). She send various signs of interest (ex: when working on her computer I accidently clicked on the show background button and it showed a picture of her in a bikini, not her normal background). On the other hand she always mentions her boyfriend who dorms in a different state. I got annoyed with it and showed her a pic of my gf (8.5). we are by Boston

Text follow later that day

Me: let’s work on blah blah next week
Me: also I’m really offended you thought I was middle eastern
Her: my mom thought you were middle eastern too (wide eye smiley)
Me: I’m getting you both glasses!
Me: show your mom this (pic of my European passport) [ed: nicely timed DHV]
Her: I will
Her: were you born there?
Me: let’s talk about it over coffee or something, easier than texting
Her: true
*i never text back

Was it weak to ask via text when I knew I would see her next week?

Mistake to show gf pic and ask to hang out same day? To forward for one young and innocent?

Mistake to send pic of passport? Trying to hard to win her approval? What would you have done instead?

To your first question: Was it weak to ask over text instead of in person? Yes, you could make a case for lameness, particularly since you and her have been, and would continue to be, in the same room together for a few weeks. But this mistake is just a yellow flag, not an own goal.

To your second question: It’s only a mistake to mention your girlfriend if it’s clear to your intended target you’re doing so in reaction to a perceived slight or disappointment. In your case, it sounds like that’s what happened. Luckily, your girlfriend is hot, so your study partner’s “preselected by quality women” algorithmic alpha male detector fired off. I would say this move was a wash in terms of any advantage or disadvantage it gave you.

To your third question: There’s no such thing as being “too forward” with a girl as long as your forward motion is executed with finesse. Recall Poon Commandment XIII:

Err on the side of too much boldness, rather than too little.

If you’re going to make a pick-up mistake, make a mistake while moving toward sex, instead of away from sex.

To your fourth and fifth questions: No, and no. You had an open to DHV with the passport without sounding try-hard.

To your sixth question: I would have texted her again after her last reply. If there is any part of this exchange where you own-goaled, it’s the part when you didn’t follow-up your tacit promise to get her out for coffee. The study room dynamic is sapping the romantic energy between you and her because it’s going on too long without forward progress. You were on the right track with your thought to move her into a different context. After she replied “true”, all you had to write back was “k, X place at X time.”

Ya know, there is seductive aloofness that entrances girls, and there is the overwrought aloofness that men who are suddenly afraid of success will resort to as a mechanism for avoiding the pain of a rejection that heretofore only exists in their heads.

tl;dr Bust a move.

***

2. A reader has sprog on the nog.

So I’ve ‘taken the red pill’, learnt game, agree with you on everything about not getting married etc.

However, I can’t seem to shake my desire to have children. To me, it seems like one of the most worthwhile things you do can with a life is to have kids. Maybe it’s because my parents did an incredible job raising my siblings and I, but I just feel like it’s a legacy I want to create.

How do you come to terms with this (assuming you share the same view)? Is marriage ESSENTIAL for having, and properly raising children? Do you believe you can do so without marriage (seen as I adamantly want to avoid it)? Or do you just not share my same desire?

Is marriage essential for having children? 😆 😆 😆 What do you think this is, 1950s America? You can be in prison and still pop out four upstanding citizens if you have a way with words and the low impulse control that chicks lurv.

But maybe you’re the kind of would-be father who actually wants to be around his kids, and impart his wisdom so that they may grow up proud and strong and become net tax payers to support the kids of the kinds of fathers and mothers who don’t much care about imparting wisdom to their womb spewage. Maybe you had the misfortune of being genetically cursed with a K-selected psychology in an increasingly r-selected world.

r-selected world
r-selected world
r-selected world girl
(li-ving in an r-selected world
we are li-ving in an r-selected world)

If kid quality is your Job 1, then yeah get married. It’s good for the children. Marry young, marry hot, marry tight. And marry chaste. (Not you. Her.) But if marriage is not your bag (and who could blame you?), you can get the same child-raising, K-assuaging, father-amazing benefits by having kids within a committed, cohabiting relationship. It works for Sweden. Well, it works for Sweden’s historical native people, at any rate. There’s nothing magical about signing on the dotted line that will alter the properties of your character, other than the disincentive magic of divorce theft. But if that’s what you need to keep your lover or yourself in line, perhaps she’s not the one you should be considering for the mother of your children.

***

3. Reader can’t believe the Pavlovian call-response of modern women.

I think this world is coming to an end. I was chatting to this girl on a dating site. I opened her by being polite and respectful, because she was from a southern country and I thought she was traditional.

She basically brushed me off by telling me I’m ugly.

Next day I make another profile and find her. My profile had nothing special at all, my picture was even uglier than the previous one. First words I open her with : you’re fat. Guess what? She was all nice and flirty with me.

Wtf is going on? Has feminism even reached the corners of all sounthern latin countries now? This is ridiculous.

I’m not a fan of the “insult as substitute for fine-tuned neg” game, but even I’m occasionally amazed at how often a shot of straight-up asshole works on women. If you’re ever stuck on a recalcitrant Westernized girl, and it’s going nowhere fast, just call her fat. It beats doing the same beta suck-up routine and expecting different results.

***

4. A reader has ideas in his head that might be counter-productive.

I would love your feedback on this-

Some brief background- I’m a recovering beta (with the soul of an alpha but duped by societal pressures, etc. to being a beta)- I was in a relationship for 11 years (was married for 7 of those years). For job purposes I moved to Paris France while my wife stayed in the US, with the plan being for her to move here after a year. She cheated on me during that year, and we broke up soon after she moved here (she still had to spend a year here as she had already committed work-wise to doing it).

Absence makes the heart grow fonder… up to a point. Extended absence makes the heart go wander. Especially if that heart is desired by a lot of other hearts in the sexual market.

This was 2.5 years ago, I was a different man then than I am now. I’m better off because of the divorce (which I never had the balls to do myself then). I’m going to visit home in a couple of weeks. Part of me wants to track this guy down (I know what city he lives in and a few people he knows, and presumably could do it) and beat the shit out of him, just to prove something about my manhood.

Whenever you feel this feel, just remember that your ex-wife represented one-half of the parties involved in the adultery. Beating the shit out of this dude, if it gets back to her, will only enable her to avoid blame for her own part in her disloyalty.

Part of the reason is that if he is still with my ex-wife (I feel like they may be- all I know is he visited her in Europe at least once while she was there for a year after we split) I just want her to know that I did that- not with any attempt or interest to win her back or anything.

I really recommend against this. You want to get back at your cheating whore of a whore’s whore ex-wife? Date a hotter babe and make sure the ex sees you together with her. That will impact her psyche a thousand times more than downwind news that you brawled with her boyfriend.

Do you think this is worth the effort- (tracking down and beating the shit out of the guy who fucked my ex-wife while I was with her) – in what it means to me in being a mostly alpha guy? Or is it more alpha for me to live my life and forget about them?

A good way to judge your frame of mind in these situations is to ask yourself, “If my ex was suddenly aroused by my display of alpha after trouncing the guy she cheated with while we were together, and she made it clear she wanted me back, would I gladly accept the opportunity?” If you answer “yes”, then you don’t have the right (aka alpha) frame of mind.

More generally this is a question I struggle with in my life at the moment. I know that I do care about how people remember me- but to what extent should I expend energy towards affecting the memories of me from people in my past, compared to spending energy on my bright future in general?

I think you already know the answer to your question.

***

5. This reader has a request for analysis of his text game.

Got a girl’s number on the street through using the “put your number in my phone” routine I saw on your site. Waited four days, and texted her to meet up, and tried to operate as I thought Chateau would advocate. Was wondering if you could evaluate my textual interaction to get her out. [Names changed to protect the devious.]

Monday., April 22, 4:08pm
Me: Hey Katie, we should go out this week. -Brad from X last Thursday

4:30pm
Her: Alright, so you definitely caught me off guard, and I’m not going to lie I was pretty flattered. I’m sorry, I just didn’t get a chance to tell you that I have a boyfriend.

This was a golden opportunity to use any number of “I have a boyfriend” neutralizing replies.

7:27pm
Her: I really am sorry, I do admire your confidence

Tuesday, April 23 11:17am
Me: U seem like an independent person who can hang with who u want. Let’s meet up tomorrow.

The problem with waiting a day to respond to a girl who dropped an “IHAB” on you is that you risk coming off like a guy who got blindsided by her revelation and needed a day to compose himself. You shoulda replied soon after. That said, this is a decent rescue of a text exchange heading south out of the gate.

11:42am
Her: But you hardly know me not to mention I think that wouldn’t be the greatest idea seeing as that would be shady on my part.

12:33pm
Her: And what could you get out of going out with a girl who has a boyfriend?

The good: She texted you back immediately, and texted twice in a row. There’s some interest.

The bad: She mentioned the boyfriend again. She might not be bluffing.

The opportunity: When a girl mentions her boyfriend a bit too frequently, it sometimes is a tell that she harbors illicit fantasies and is leaning on the “boyfriend boyfriend boyfriend” chant to strengthen her resolve in the face of temptation, or to excuse herself of any responsibility should she HAPPEN to succumb to another man’s seductive charm. You know, the ol’ “But I told him I had a boyfriend, so anything that happens between us will be his fault” hamster rationalization.

1:23pm
Me: I won’t judge u, Katie. (Particular bar) tomorrow at 8

I don’t like this response. Too straight and by the book. You’re playing into her frame, i.e., you’re tacitly agreeing with her that it would be shady for her to meet with you. Better to have replied playfully, For example:

Her:  And what could you get out of going out with a girl who has a boyfriend?

You: A free drink.

1:29pm
Her: Well I’m not sure what this has to do with my independence but I can’t meet you especially when I don’t even know you, Brad.

Ok, she’s interested. She’s begging for you to give her the flimsy excuse she needs to come out and see you.

3:21pm
Me: U know u can, Katie, and should. Come get to know me tomorrow. Don’t cheat yourself.

Game by assertion? I like the “don’t cheat yourself” line, but this reply is veering dangerously into begging territory. You’re totally in chasing mode. I dunno. It’s not my style. Anyone else want to chime in here? YaReally? I’ll give you points for boldness and directness, though. That may be enough.

Wednesday April 24, 12:02am
Her: I just don’t even know what to say anymore to be honest

As long as a girl is still replying, the game is still on.

11:52am
Me: Say you’ll see me tonight 😉

This kind of earnest charm works better face to face, where you can soften the sappy edge with a smirk. In text, you risk sounding desperate, even with the ameliorating smilie.

12:31pm
Her: Do girls just not say no to you very often or something?

She’s stiiiiiiillllll replying.

2:24pm
Me: Other girls have nothing to do with me and u

Ok, so you’re basically running battering ram game. Nothing wrong with that. It can work well on girls who had an initial reservoir of romantic interest.

2:28pm
I don’t even know your full name, and my name is spelled “Katy” by the way haha.

Did you misspell her name on purpose the whole time? If so, kudos, sir.

4:13pm
Me: Duly noted, Katy. I’ll be sure to give u my last name right when we meet up tonight

This is becoming too insistent. You need more cocky playfulness. All I see is you chasing 100% and her being chased 100%. For instance, there was an opportunity here to fuck around with the “wrong name” conversational subthread. Instead of “Duly noted, Katy”, you could have replied “Duly noted, Qaaytee”.

7:43pm
Me: U on way, katy?

I know the Chateau recommends Zero Punctuation, but honestly it looks kind of stupid when a man uses “U” in place of “you”.

7:45pm
Her: No I’m not haha I’m studying I don’t believe I told you I was going

Aaaand…. failure to launch.

7:47pm
Me: Gay

The “gay” response is better at the start of trouble, not ten days later.

7:50pm
Her: Not gay it’s a Wednesday night

She’s just using you for shits and giggles now. Abandon ship.

My next move was to abandon her, but if she contacts me, wait a long time to respond and somehow fit in the “because I don’t want to get you pregnant” line. Your opinion?

“if she contacts me”. That “if” is a big if. You’re thinking twelve chess moves ahead when she hasn’t even moved her pawn E2 to E4. There might be a way to turn this around and somehow convince her to go out with you, but I think you’ll have an easier time recruiting a new girl for a date. And it sounds like that kind of perspective is what you need.