Did this reader succeed in passing the classic “let’s go meet X guy friend!” shit test from a girl he likes?
I would appreciate your take on how I handled a massive test of game. Feel free to post this email if you’d like.
Okay She’s 22 years old, pre med student. A solid HB9, she is at her absolute peak of SMV and with her intelligence and flawless body she’s well aware of this fact. I’m 32 and scored myself 20 on the Market Value Test.
I got her number at a bar on a Wednesday night by navigating a maelstrom of shit tests and dropping a well timed laser guided neg:
Me: (sit up in the chair lock eyes with her pause for a beat, then let out a dismissive chortle)
Her: (fully engaged now) What?
Me: Do you think you have the right disposition to be a pediatrician?
Her: (snaps up in her chair, turns towards me, leans in) What does that mean!?Had 30 more minutes of conversation and get her number. She is almost sitting in my chair now, tons of interest. Right as she is leaning in and hanging on my words, with her hand on my knee, I stand up and tell her that I have to leave, but that she should text me for a drink sometime.
Here is where the fun starts. The next night (Thursday) she texts me asking if I’m out. I happened to be at a bar with friends, told her where I was and she immediately texts back that she was planning on heading there soon with her friends.
She shows up. Waves of attention surround her. She has 2 beta orbiters and another girl in tow, and every bar tender/bouncer/bar back guy in the bar knows her and instantly comes up and showers her with their beta affection. I ignore her presence and engage my group. She finally comes over and to say hello, she introduces me to her entourage. Now at this moment the group I came with are all leaving. They are saying their goodbye’s and of course I’m planning on staying a little longer. It’s important to note that the bar has thinned out at this point, only a handful of small intimate groups and pairs of people remain. I immediately ingratiate myself into her group, chatting up the chumps and putting them at ease, then shifting my focusing on her girlfriend and giving her lots of attention.
Now she drops a bomb on me:
She interrupts her friend mid sentence who was talking to me and says: “So glad you’re out!” Then addressing the whole group she says: “Oh, we have to go upstairs and say hi to (dude bartender)!” Everyone immediately agrees with their princess and they begin to follow (we were all standing during this conversation). The first thing I knew was that there was no way I was following her up there. I simply said nothing gave her my best bemused smirk and watched them walk up the stairs. I took a deliberate sip of my beer and caught her looking back to see that I wasn’t going to follow her up there. Now what? I can’t go upstairs and the bar is mostly empty and the groups of people would not be open to new people it’s too casual. I could sit at the bar and talk to the bartender, but she already was talking with him and he’s part of her crew. So, I just paid my bill and casually left.I got a text from her 30 minutes later:
Her: (my name)!
Her: Come find me
Me: (20 minutes later) Next timeSo, I know I played it good enough because she sent me a text and asked me out on Saturday evening saying that her plans fell through and she had extra tickets to a comedy show. I told her I had dinner plans (which I did with another girl). Against my better judgement I said I could meet her there after my dinner plans. And she went home with me after. (alpha smirk) I survived what was by far the hardest shit-testing-est girl I’ve ever encountered.
How else could I have handled that night? I wanted to show her that she has no control over what I’m doing and I did the best I could, but actually she did force me to do something I didn’t want to do. Because I didn’t want to leave. Truthfully I was enjoying her little group and it was fun conversation. But under the circumstances I didn’t see another out. Would love to hear your wise opinion.
A lot going on here, and not all of it relates to the question you asked.
First, if you banged her, (which you implied), why do you care about getting feedback on your game? You won. Enjoy it. Obviously, you did enough right for any minor missteps to not matter.
Second, the shit test she subjected you to was not, in my considered opinion, all that tough. You want a tough shit test? How about when a girl tells you right off the bat you shouldn’t have even imagined she was a remote possibility for you? Yes, this has happened to me. I said “Welp, there goes my in with your cute friend”. Making lemonade outta lemons, braheem…
Third, if your buddies left, and her friends all followed her upstairs to party with the bartender, why would you want to stay? Because you were having a fun time with them. Ok, if that’s the case, then you wouldn’t have given it a second thought about tagging along upstairs. But you did. Which means you had more on your mind than just the “fun” you were supposedly having. You wanted her alone, and other men didn’t figure into that equation. Be honest with yourself.
With your friends gone, and her chummy with the bartender and surrounded by her group of sycophants, I think you played the safe bet by jetting. Unless your social skills are excellent and you are an extrovert who can rapidly win over a new group and potential male competitors, the risk of getting “betatized” as the striving outsider to a small group of cackling insiders is too great. Hovering is the kiss of death for any courtship escalation.
However, contrary to the above judgment, it appears this girl liked you well enough before the night even began, and you could have stayed around longer without seriously risking any loss of her attraction. When she interrupted your conversation with her friend, that was a major tell (an IOI) that her interest was heating up.
Practically speaking, the next time something like this happens, and you find yourself torn between leaving a venue when you don’t want to and sticking around following a girl like a puppy dog, just tell your target that you’ll “catch up” with her in a bit. Then find someone else to talk with for a half hour before heading upstairs to continue with her what you had going on earlier in the night.
I think he handled it all pretty well. Maybe he didn’t need to play it “so aloof” while she was being so compliant (taking the initiative to text him herself). However, a chick with like this (22, HB9) is on a pretty tall pedestal. She probably needed to see this demonstration by you that you aren’t going to jump through hoops to appease her like everyone else. So, I’m not sure what really needed to change. He got the result he wanted in extremely short-order and with minimal effort.
Reader! This is not some magic formula. This is just you living your life. There is not a point system that is up in the clouds awarding you 82% out of 100% for your performance here. You did a great job and got laid. Don’t over-think this stuff when you have this level of mastery.
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“Me: Do you think you have the right disposition to be a pediatrician?
Her: (snaps up in her chair, turns towards me, leans in) What does that mean!?”
Truth.
This whore has no business going into pediatrics, or into any oyher pediatric specialty [like a pediatric surgical specialty].
In fact, it’s a little difficult for me to imagine any medical specialty which she’d be suited for – maybe adult plastics, with a specialty in breast cancer reconstructive surgery, for the Komen Pink Ribbon crowd?
I pity the poor Attending Physicians who will be supervising her residency.
And her fellow residents, who will spend their entire residencies cleaning up after her mistakes and her fuck-ups and her nonchalant incompetence.
Train wreck waiting to happen.
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oyher = other
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Oi her
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I was about to challenge you on how could you gather so much from such a short exchanged conveyed at this site.
But then I realized, yeah, what you are saying has been my experience since I was in college and later in my professional life. Hot chicks in difficult lines of work often coast and take it easy, progress on anyway, and then find idiots around them who will make excuses for them. This is true even–perhaps especially–when large dollar sums and lives could be at stake.
Now, I see that even the Wall and middle age does not stop this, as the women now make cow-eyes at the still-older codgers. Failing that, they bring out the sexual discrimination claim for one last lotto play. They usually get bought out, allowing them to open that pottery studio they always wanted.
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“Failing that, they bring out the sexual discrimination claim for one last lotto play.”
This.
I was going to say, “I pity the poor Attending Physician who will be supervising her residency, UNLESS HE LIKES GETTING ANAL FROM HIS FEMALE RESIDENTS.”
But then I thought to myself: No way in Hell – as soon as that Attending told her he wasn’t going to leave his wife, the bitch would be all over him with an harassment lawsuit, he’d lose his tenure in the blink of an eye, and he’d be lucky if the state medical board didn’t yank his license altogether.
Which, in turn, means that he’s gonna have to be prepared to leave his wife if he wants to dip Mr Johnson in that hawt shapely backside.
But then that means getting raped by his wife in divorce court.
And never seeing his kids again.
Moral of the story: Evil bitch resident “HB9” party girl == DNFW for Attending Physicians [at least if you’re married].
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“cow-eyes”
LOL’ed.
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They see this in women pilots all the time… the hotter they are the less competent they are. This is a known fact at major airlines where there are informal mechanisms in place to insure that even if said hot chick is the captain, she has adult supervision at all times.
In a weird way, it’s not really their fault. They benefit from everyone wanting to see them succeed and stepping aside so the girl can go right to the head of the line. After that happens a few times they wind up way out of their depth because they leapfrogged the grind that gives pilots the experience to be safe during real emergencies and not just in the simulator (where, again, the simulator instructor is rooting for the girl, too).
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I was discussing this just the other day. Military 737 pilot here, tit assist is a major problem for us.
You a pilot too?
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I have tried to find statistics about the accident rate of male vs. female pilots, but have not been able to. I wonder why. I remember that back in the mid 1990s, when women were first allowed into military aviation, there was that video of a cunt trying to land an F-14 on a carrier, displaying gross incompetence. She ended up crashing into the sea and killing herself. I remember reading that the captain of that flat top was outraged at the incompetence of the cunts, so he grounded the few remaining cunts, “equality” be damned!
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Interesting stuff, pilots! The most ridiculous stories of training blunders and solo-flight follies all involved the more whore-ish females that happened to be going through the stereotypical pilot production factory of your large FTO. I finished my commercial training last year and the amount of incidents involving the same type of women during training is bewildering. But hardly surprising as like you say, everyone at an organisation wants to see them succeed. It starts from day 1 of groundschool and continues all the way until they [eventually] ‘achieve’ their fATPL, usually months behind their original peers. Of all the women there, I only know two female pilots personally who equalled the normal standard attained by the guys, And they were the only two who never whore’d themselves around outside of the classroom and you could honestly respect on an academic and professional level.
I think the problem in Aviation is that it’s such a male-dominated industry where women are really still regarded as a rarity in the scheme of things, such that they are treated better than they would deserve in comparison to their male counterparts, giving them the over-inflated sense of self confidence in their ability. As you’ve pointed out, they get to coast, they skip the hard-grind where you really need to cut your teeth. The average woman in aviation is not anywhere near as hot as the average woman in the street, but again, because there are so few women in the industry, and an over abundance of beta geek-boys giving them underserved attention, their sense of self-worth is over-elevated once again.
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“I pity the poor Attending Physicians who will be supervising her residency.”
I don’t know. Though our young belle may be a pain in the ass for the attending, simply being randomly assigned to someone good-looking will make the attending physician appear more competent by his peers. Funny how psychology works.
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“This whore has no business going into pediatrics, or into any oyher pediatric specialty [like a pediatric surgical specialty].
In fact, it’s a little difficult for me to imagine any medical specialty which she’d be suited for –“
As harsh as your statement is, I have to agree with you on this stupid whore who hangs out in bars and gets fucked by men she will never see again.
Review what he says:
“and every bar tender/bouncer/bar back guy in the bar knows her and instantly comes up and showers her with their beta affection.”
That’s a med student? She is well-known in bars? WTF? A lot of lacking-morals girls go into medicine these days. Between the stupid whorish women and the 3rd worlders, the profession is becoming so…….how should I put it……unprofessional.
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What the fuck are you talking about? Do you people even go out? Do you have friends? THIS IS EXACTLY THE SORT OF BEHAVIOR A 22 YEAR OLD SHOULD BE ENGAGING IN.
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Not if she wants to cut open your kid’s body someday as part of a medical procedure. Her ass should be in the library.
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That’s my point. I knew/know a lot of med students. I dated several while I was in law school. I almost got engaged to one. They do party (they can get wild as hell, in fact), but they spend almost all of their time studying in the library.
I’m not sure what you nerds are proposing. How much free time is acceptable for this poor girl to allot in her schedule so that you’ll approve? 1 hour a week? Is she allowed to have wine at home? It isn’t like I give a shit about this girl, specifically, but what, exactly are women like her allowed to do in your world?
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Again, if she is a hot chick, she only needs to go to the bar ONE FUCKING TIME for the bartenders and bouncers to remember her. It isn’t like she has to have a cot there. In all likelihood, she studies most of the time and gets together with her friends to hang out and GO MEET DUDES. You could even be one of those dudes if you didn’t hate her for being a bar.
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*at a bar, obviously. As they say, sometimes you eat the bar, sometimes the bar eats you.
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“In all likelihood, she studies most of the time and gets together with her friends to hang out and GO MEET DUDES.”
Really? Ya think so?
Maybe the idea we don’t like this scenario is that a “hot chick” is studying to become a doctor when she obviously has very feminine tendencies like partying and getting laid, not to mention responding typically-female when a man knows how to game her effectively – so she isn’t that smart, or her hormones are ruling her, as it should be. Did you ever consider this? She just doesn’t seem serious enough or emotionally strong enough for something that important. Thanks God, she is only pre-med and isn’t further along. Hopefully, she’ll just quit and move into something that would suit her whorish nature much better.
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@yeahokcool
Thank god you’re around. 100% concur. One of my social circles is an entire class of med students. They basically own a couple nightclubs because they’re there as a class every weekend partying HARD to relieve the stress of their med shit. They have massive student loans and blow a ton of it partying because they’ll be making retarded money down the road. I literally know a specialize surgeon who’s salary right now (he’s around 30yo) is over $1 million per year.
When they have exams and shit, they stay in and study hard. And when they need to be sober for a morning shift or are on call etc, they don’t drink alcohol. But every weekend at least half the class is getting hammered from 6pm to 6am.
Some of them are nerds but most of them are cool and social and some of them even have legit game. They pull random ass from the bar and their class all get drunk and fucks eachother. Lots of cheating on relationships too. These are the people who will be saving your kids’ lives and performing surgery on you and shit one day. Don’t worry, when they’re not at the bar they’re in that library like you want them to be.
All the bouncers know them because they like going to the same clubs as a group and are social/fun and drop massive $ regularly there.
Fuckin go outside and make some friends, people. Jeezus lol
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Two tools arguing with phantoms from nine threads back. It’s becoming a shitty Laurel and Hardy routine.
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Wrong dipshit
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As somebody that has worked in a bar for years and has slept with nearly every attractive regular we have… the bar staff were not showing beta affection… half of them have piped her. Trust me, I’ve been doing this long enough to know it beyond a shadow of a doubt. And if your girlfriend is well known at a bar.., you’re foolishly trying to turn a ho into a housewife. No exceptions.
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…except for the fact that she’s “pre-med” — and any retard can take “pre-med” courses since there’s no bar to entry in that major…when she actually makes it into med school these points might have some relevance…I’m guessing she won’t make it that far…
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One suspects that this may be trolling.
But, if not, then it seems close to flawless. Do not worry about the detail – NOT following her upstairs with the entourage was more than good enough.
By the way, what the fuck is it with these women? They all have these fucking ghastly entourages in tow after them.
Always.
It is hard to work out who is more contemptible – the woman or the entourage.
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Also, what’s up with the whole “We *have* to say hi” to so-and-so?
It’s similar to the “We have to go dance” line. You never hear men talking this way. Why do women insist that they “have” to go do something when they’re ostensibly having fun?
[CH: Group cohesion. A particularly passive-aggressive female trait. When men want to see someone, they usually say “I’m going to see so and so.” Women love the royal we, because women love peace and security and group comity, and will strive for these things using manipulative tactics if necessary..]
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“By the way, what the fuck is it with these women? They all have these fucking ghastly entourages in tow after them.”
Simple. Attention is the coin of the realm in girl world.
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Ghastly entourages? More like a safety net. Many women aren’t very comfortable going out by themselves, and there are real-world safety-based reasons for this. So she makes sure she’s out with a group whenever she can.
I travel a lot for business. This means that unless I lock myself in my hotel room and order room service (which not all hotels have, especially in some of the places I get sent), I frequently have to go out by myself. It’s kind of shocking the way men will treat me when I’m eating dinner alone. It’s like opening day of RappaccinisDaughter season.
And before you ask, no, I’m not hot. It’s just that I’m alone and I guess that reads as “open for business.” I’ve recently taken to bringing a laptop or book with me to my table, despite the fact that I know my poor grandma is spinning in her grave, just to deflect the attention.
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“Simple. Attention is the coin of the realm in girl world.”
I’m sorry, but I honestly don’t think that Americans behaved like this as recently as about 1960 [late Eisenhower Administration].
Heck, even the mid-1980s [Reagan Administration].
I honestly think that this is something which the Frankfurt School has been very patiently and very assiduously foisting upon us in the mass media for the last 20 or 30 years.
We really used to be a better people than this.
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It’s like when they used to have to go to the bathroom in pairs in elementary school. And they need to be reminded of this.
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+1.
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“By the way, what the fuck is it with these women”
Gee. I don’t know.
I’m going to give you a dozen women who are going to get all dressed up and come out with you to the bar tonight. Everyone in the room is going to think you’re the shit because these 12 girls will chase you around all night, shower you with attention and compliments, fight over you, buy you all your drinks, do anything you tell them to, keep away any ugly girls who want to hit on you, make sure you get home safe no matter how sloppy drunk you get, and you can snap your fingers and any single one of them would suck your dick instantly.
Oh, what? That sounds appealing? What’s WRONG with you, you contemptible asshole, why would you let this entourage go out with you, you’re pathetic.
Like, seriously. Did I miss the small print in this article where it said “everyone who hasn’t set foot in a bar in years and who has a bitter-ass chip on their shoulder be sure to leave a comment”?
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the begged question is “do these guys actually LIKE women, or not?” well, obviously not when it comes to chris from dublin. he’s gay, afterall.
regardless, this butthurt rage at women for basically just existing at women is awfully bizarre.
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“Oh, we have to go upstairs and say hi to (bartender!” she says.
“Stay here. Talk to me. I’m far more interesting. You can talk to your friend anytime, when I’m not available!” I command.
This is how I do things. I want what I want, and I either ask for it, or demand it. She either stays, or she will be ignored from now on. There are a thousand hot women with brains and personality in every major city. So, any woman that won’t stay and show me that I have value will simply be replaced by one who does. I do this all of the time, with women.
Honest to god, it’s like freakin’ gold! If you get ANYTHING negative from her. She turns away. She does not hang on your every word. She pays attention to others, when I’m right here in front of her. Anything less than total devotion and she gets ignored, from then on. What happens, when I walk by, without a glance or hello? They follow and say something. Now, they’re all attention, waving and smiling and all sorts of chatter. And, I tell them why they were ignored. “Look, you didn’t pay attention to me. There are simply too many other women who line up, and they are all ahead of you, so that is why I don’t waste time with you anymore. If you have interest, then you show interest! I’m looking for company tonight! Are you up for it, or should I just forget all about you from now on?” I tell her.
I expect women to do what I want and pay attention to me at all times. Damn right that’s sexist and selfish and every other damn thing! So what? This is who and what I am. Take it, or leave it for the next woman in line!
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You have a point!
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“When you come back down, bring me a beer.”
Gives her an excuse to take the entourage upstairs to be entertained by bartender whatshisface, then ditch them and come back down to you.
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this is pretty much my game to a tee….
“first time they fuss i’m breezin'”
it works when you have a large selection though. small town…..not so much.
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Well done. Sounds like she liked you to begin with, but like a lot of girls needed the security of her friends’ approval. She probably didn’t want to have to go home with you in front of her friends, but was sold enough to get back in touch with you. Had you acted invested in her by following her around, that probably wouldn’t have been the case. Not always, but sometimes being patient pays off. It’s like playing offense in basketball – read and react.
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“Then addressing the whole group she says: ‘Oh, we have to go upstairs and say hi to (dude bartender)!'”
Perhaps one of you can enlighten me, because I don’t understand how that’s a “shit test.” She’s well-known at this venue and is close with several of the staff. They probably know she’s there, so she’d feel rude if she didn’t go say hi. She expressly includes the writer in her plans to do so. It comes off as rather polite and friendly to me.
Then again, I’m foggy on the whole concept of “shit test.” Is that simple rudeness? Or is it when a woman–consciously or not–attempts to elicit compliance?
[CH: I agree that as far as shit tests go, this was a weak one. But shit tests come in many flavors of intensity, and women can be deviously subtle when they employ them to gauge a man for his alpha reaction. The old “let’s go meet this other guy I know so I can subconsciously register how you handle yourself under social pressure” is a classic of the shit test genre, if not a particularly gruesome one.]
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When she tests by walking away to see if you’ll tag along like a good puppy like all her orbiters, the best thing to do is go talk to a hotter girl. You don’t even have to really flirt with the hotter girl. When the target comes back to check on you and sees you’ve upgraded, she will really tingle and chase.
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There are multiple shit-tests going on.
1) Compliance Test – to see if he’ll be her orbiter. ie – how hard will he chase her = how much value she has to him. Is she on a pedestal just for having a pussy so he’ll follow her around? The next test after “come upstairs to meet this other man” is “let’s to to BarX” then “leave the bar you’re at with your friends and come see meeeee!” etc until he’s an official orbiter. Or is he so high value with 10 other women chasing him that he doesn’t have to follow her around and can wait till she comes to him?
2) Value/AMOG Test – her guy friends downstairs all loved him so he handled himself well, but they’re beta. So let’s put him up against the highest value male in that environment, the flirty social bartender who HAS 20 girls a night wanting to suck his dick and who’s job is to be a flirt, who has all the power/value in the bar because he can give her and her friends free drinks, he works with hot girls who love him etc. NOW how will the Op do? Will he be as cool as this massively high value guy who’s in his element? Cool enough to chat with the dude, shake hands, joke around, and make the guy supplicate or qualify himself to him and basically give him social proof? Or will he fall into the background and stand there watching the bartender motion for his girl to lean in over the bar to whisper flirty shit in her ear and pour her a shot and then tell him “$12.50 dude. What? You’re not going to buy her a drink? Wow lol aww here you go babe this one’s on me.”
3) Orbiter Test – when she realizes he’s gone she txts “come find me!” Not “where are you so I can come find you?”, but “come to where I am because you are desperate for sex and will chase me around when I tell you to”. This is a minor version of “ditch your friends and come to the bar I’m at, I miss youuuuu” (and then he gets there and she ignores him because she has 10 orbiters)
So ya, there’s a lot of little tests packed in there. Is she doing these things on purpose or consciously with malicious intent? No, she’s just following her instincts which naturally weed out alphas from betas.
He handled it just fine given the situation. If it was earlier in the night then ya, for sure chat up other people downstairs. But end of the night like that, fuck it, bail wordlessly and trust that you’ll get another shot. Don’t be mad, don’t be pissy, hell you can say “I had to take a shit.” if she ever asks why you left. She knows subconsciously why you left…because you’re not one of her orbiters.
Also I agree with CH that this is a really minor shit-test to me lol but I can see how it would be an epic one for a guy who’s newer to this stuff. It’s a tricky one because its subtle…a “fuck you!” is easy to deal with because its in your face and responding is appropriate. A subtle social dynamic test like this is harder to gauge because you don’t know what the little things you do are going to “mean” to her hamster subconscious lol
Also even tho it was a success: good on him for still analyzing his game and looking for alternatives and/or ways to make it more efficient. Just cause you sink a basketball doesn’t mean you couldn’t have sunk it smoother. I don’t know why I use sports analogies, I don’t know shit about sports lol
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YaReally – between a rock and a hard place with main squeeze – any way I can contact you privately
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Filter, I’m no PUA myself but I strongly suggest you post your situation to the rest of the commenters and let us try to give an objective view. It will def help, and if you can refrain from getting butthurt when the Matt King’s try to shut you down, then I guarantee you will get legit feedback.
Do whatever the hell you want but there are more than one ways to skin a cat.
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Post the jist of it here and I’ll see if I can help. I don’t want to open the floodgates of people emailing me for private help, I spend enough time on here as it is lol there are like 6 comments I want to respond to from the last bunch of articles that I just don’t have time to write right now lol
Don’t worry about super personal details (don’t post more than you’re comfortable with, too many detectives here), and keep in mind that usually these situs seem zoomed in like “and then I said this and she said this with a tone of voice like blah and 3 years ago her brother’s step-dad said blah and what does it mean” but in reality the actual problem/solution is a lot more zoomed out and more like “she’s feeling neglected and needs you to do such and such to feel like she can trust your relationship”, you know?
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YaReally. I’m currently in the midst of running a boyfriend destroyer on this HB7 I met out about a couple months back and wanted to get your advice on the best way to play this.
Background: Her roommate is hooking up with my roommate so while out one night, my roommate introduced me to HB7 at this bar that’s about 5minutes away. I entertained HB7 so my roommate could run game on his girl and found out some knowledge on her dating situation.
Basically, she’s dating a guy she met online and despite this guy being totally “great” for her, she has verbalized that she likes jerks. This guy waited over a month to have sex with her and even while back at her place one night, he agreed to “take things slow out of respect” for her even though she brought him back to her bedroom and wanted the sex to happen. Yes, he’s probably a good dude who thinks he’s doing the right thing but her dating history includes jerks and guys that broke her heart and it’s obvious that she’s attracted to that kind of attitude. On the surface she is content with her new bf of 2 months but it’s like some kind of facade she’s putting up because she would seem shitty for coming out and saying that she’s not legit attracted to the kind of “nice” behavior he bestows on her. Note: I used to be this kind guy with my ex-gf and I ended up having a bad time.
Anyways, that first night I met her I got her to open up like a book and I tried my best to run TD’s Boyfriend Destroyer routine. I made it seem like that this guy probably likes her so much and is scared of losing her that he doesn’t want to fuck things up. All the attention, the phone calls, the introduction to his parents and shit like that is a result of him being so into her. I made sure not to evoke any negative thoughts and would sprinkle in stories about one of the girls I was dating and how I was the complete opposite of this nice guy and that the girl wanted more commitment from me but I wouldn’t do it because xyz. DLV her bf while DHV’ing myself that kind of thing. Mix it in with the dim lighting at the bar, some alcohol, some YaReally game, and other routines I was running and it’s safe to say that attraction was on.
Basically, I made sure to make him seem like needy/nice while contrasting it with my darker/asshole side. It wasn’t obvious how I was doing this and I was also running kino and giving her a hard time and teasing her at the bar. Anyways, good stuff but the night comes to a close and we all decide to head home. My roommate and I walk the girls home and I’m about 50 yards up ahead and the HB7 and I are walking arm-in arm. We get to her apartment stoop a couple min ahead of my roommate and his girl and I pull HB7 in and have both of my hands on her back. Real-close, eye contact, smelling her perfume, telling her she’s irresistible. I go in for a kiss and she rebuffs but it seems like merely a formality. Actions speak louder than words. Here I am with her inches away and my palms are on her lower and upper back. I know that it’s all good even though the kiss didn’t happen. She didn’t move her body away. Anyway, the vibes are all good and as my roommie and his girl pull up to the apt, we say our goodbyes and disperse and I go home with her number in my cell thinking how can I make this happen.
I send a feeler text the next day (“I’m doing 18-20% more awesome today, how’s you’re day going” type text) and get no response. All good though because I understand the situation for what it is. And yes, no need to focus all my attention on this one girl whose taken. But this side of me does want to understand how the Boyfriend Destroying shit works and I kind of like the idea of being the other guy.
————-2 months later——–
Ok so, fast forward about 2 months later and my roommate gets a text from the girl he’s kind of seeing and she invites the both of us over to pre-game.
Boom, we show up. We’re chilling in the backyard and 5min it the HB7 emerges and sits down at the table with the three of us. I don’t get up to say hi or shake her hand and I just give her an upwards head nod and continue with the story I’m telling. I reckoned that recalling that last night out a couple months back wouldn’t be so smooth even though I have a feeling she definitely remembers who I am. Whatever. We pre-game for an hour and my roommie and I are doing hella awesome with the game we’re running. We’re pinging off each other and the girls are eating it up. I notice HB7 is laughing at a lot of my jokes and fuck me, but I was a witty motherfucker last night. But beyond how funny I think I am, HB7’s attention towards me is kind of like that dynamic of “If you want to know which girl likes you, tell a joke to a group and when they’re laughing, pay attention to which girl is looking at you” kind of thing. Kind of hard to explain but you get the idea.
Anyway, I think the power move was not getting up excitedly to introduce myself to her. I just continued business as usual giving her the most basic modicum of respect. As the pre-game goes on, I’m getting raunchy with her and say how I like girls with Daddy issues and how I hope she has some. I neg her a bit on how she’s a Long Island girl and do some other shit that keeps her on her toes. Good stuff and good vibes as we bounce to the same bar.
We post up at the same corner where we first met and after a round of shots, my roommie isolates his girl and I try to do the same. It becomes apparent that HB7 remembers me and that night. She tries to get me to open up “So tell me your story, you’re so mysterious to me.” (IOI, hello). She chides me and says I was being such an asshole when she first came out. I ask her to clarify and she can’t provide an example. Note: I wasn’t an asshole but I think she’s used to guys getting up out of their seat and dropping whatever they’re doing. I’m running a fuck-ton of kino at the bar and trying to sexualize my game. When I get in too close she pushes me away but it’s token resistance. I tell try to go in for a kiss but it doesn’t happen (maybe I should work on kiss closing) but it’s no big deal. I go back to running game and trying my best to spike her emotions \/\/\/\/\/\/.
Somehow she brings up her boyfriend and I don’t think it was good because it was acknowledging the elephant in the room. Still, she laments how she’s always been attracted to assholes so I know there is still room for me to exploit this situation to my advantage. I just fucking don’t know how to do it.
It seems at some point, whether through bad game, my roommate making out with his girl, or perhaps HB7s buying temp going up so much (like she knows something bad will happen if she stays); the girls end up leaving. It was like a mix of pickle-backs, ASD, spiked emotions made a devilish cocktail for HB7 and she had to extricate herself from the situation. All in all I think my game was decent as towards the end I was upping the ante and getting more physical. HB7 at this point was like hip-checking me and whenever I negged her or teased her. She did it a couple times and again once we were outside and about to split up. Shit, outside I was holding her close kind of like Julien does in RSD vids and she wasn’t moving away.
Her and her roomie goes home and I’m standing smoking a cig with my roommate somewhat befuddled. Not sure if my game was good or if I’m an unsmooth operator. I would like to hear your or anyone’s thoughts on a plan of action to take down HB7. This is not a scarcity mentality type thing, I’m just trying to learn how to become that guy. Maybe, because I used to be the nice bf, there is some kind of psychological element to this as well. But whatever.
—- Texts from today —
Me: Hey..do me a favor and text me right back. Just hi or something.
–
Her: Lol
–
Me: My frioend doesn’t believe retards can text. We sure did show ’em lil buddy lol.
–
Her: Yea, you are pretty good at texting.
–
Me: So hardcore
Me: God you’re just like all the other HB7s. Sweet on the outside…
–
Her: *HB7 (correcting me on how her name is actually spelled
Her: I’m so nice to you. Stop.
–
Me: Spelling nazi
Me: I’m this close — to taking you off the VIP list for our 2nd Annual Apartment Pizza Part
—
Her: Well that’s just rude.
***De- brief***
That’s where it all stands. Again, I’m not hung up on it but I’m in unchartered waters. The girls live less than a 5min walk away and we are all in talks about them coming over at some point for barbecues and shit we throw during the summer so good chance I’ll see her again.
If this is something I should ask for advice on after I blow up the account, then no worries. I don’t mind fucking it up for the sake of learning and I understand that it’s sometimes better to try and then to analyze it later. Same thing in the lair I’m in, some guys ask for advice on the current girl (winning back a girl when they have one-itis, for example) and it’s pretty obvious that they’re going to fuck up the advice anyway so they might as well learn from experience. That’s not so much the case here but I might be wrong.
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You ran that flawless, really well done, I was nodding my head thru the whole thing. Don’t stress the “it’s one-itis just move on” guys, as long as you’re still sarging other girls its just learning not one-itis. When she’s the center of your world, that’s when you’re fucked lol. Guys give up and move on too easy these days, you can learn a lot from trying to “crack the code” on tricky cases like this.
Anyway you ran everything 100% flawless, well done. But this is what’s fucking it up:
“or perhaps HB7s buying temp going up so much (like she knows something bad will happen if she stays)”
This plus some ASD plus fear of her roommate’s judgement, basically…possibly with a dabble of “I’ve made mistakes and an asshole broke my heart and I’m reeeeeeeally trying to do right this time by trying a nice guy”. Like a fat chick eating salads trying to convince her it tastes as good as a chocolate cake lol you are that chocolate cake. 😀
Basically she wants to fuck you and she knows she wants to and she knows (and her roomie knows) that if she’s around you, she’ll fuck you, so she has to keep objecting and resisting etc.
The prob is the other girl is her roommate so isolating her is tricky…if you go home to her place to fuck, roomie will know. If you take her to your place she won’t come home so roomie will know. Roomie might not give a fuck but she probably worries that she’ll judge her so she feels guilty like she would if her roomie opened the fridge to a half eaten chocolate cake.
The other prob is that with her ASD plus her roomie being with your buddy, it’ll be hard if not impossible to get her out to meet you solo. She’ll have her ASD triggered over having a BF because she won’t be aroused when you txt her to hang out, and because you 4 hang out together she’ll think “let’s just hang out as a group” as a way of cockblocking herself from eating the chocolate cake. Agreeing to meet up solo is like ordering the cake from the store lol. It’ll trigger too much ASD/guilt.
The way I would handle this is:
1) rely on partying as a group to make your main moves in person where she’s horny and into your vibe. Another situ like pre-gaming or after-partying at their place is perfect shit, that’s where it’s easiest to make it happen…your boy and her roomie sneak off to bang and leave you two isolated in a place with beds. Think about how, logistically, you could isolate/escalate there…going to get drinks in the kitchen, challenging her to Xbox in the basement, asking for a tour of the place, sending your boy and her roomie to get alcohol together, etc. post-bar afterparty would be easiest, pre-game is tougher because you’re supposed to go out as a group so there’s a time limit and sex hair will be blatant etc.
At the bar, isolate and keep doing what you’re doing. Never ever mention her BF, he no longer exists. She brings him up because she feels guilty so you need to dismantle the guilt. Like you handled the BF’s value, now you need to handle her self-guilt and disable the ASD/LMR.
This could just take some time. Keep being unapologetically sexual with her, and at the same time keep being casual about it like not jumping up to greet her. You’re just that sexy guy she knows is dangerous and not boyfriend material, but that she can’t resist being around because she gets excitement and arousal poking the bear.
Keep trying to kiss her. Change her mood, not her mind, spike her emotions then push for a kiss, if she rejects it play it cool and repeat a few min later. You basically have to shut down all the “I’m a bad person for falling for another asshole” and “what about my promise to myself??” thoughts in her head. If you go for the kiss without short-circuiting her with emotional spikes, she’ll keep rejecting it.
So be patient. You’re running the right play here, you just might have to keep running it over and over persistently in person. Trust that it’ll happen down the road.
I wouldn’t even txt her at all anymore. She’s not going to give you any ground via txt because its easy to resist you that way. In person it’s tougher.
Keep in mind that them inviting you out is the big ioi. They wouldn’t invite you out if she wasn’t attracted and didn’t want you to win this battle and fuck her lol
just be discreet and do all escalation in isolation. That will make her feel more comfortable that maybe no one will know if she fucks you…vs groping her in front of her roommate all night where she can’t play innocent or say it “just happened”. I’ve had girls where literally her friends don’t realize we even know eachother or think we hate eachother or that I’m not her type, and then they’re amazed when they find out we’ve been hooking up on the side once everyone goes home for the night. This is again why her roomie situ fucks the logistics, her roomie won’t “leave early” with your buddy because she lives with your girl so they’ll always have to leave together which means you’re always going to end up either just the 2 girls goin home together or all 4 of you going home together which is tricky.
See if you can get your buddy to help you arrange an afterparty at their place next time…play it cool with your girl, less kino etc with her but lots of eye-fucking etc (to show her you can be discreet, plus it’s a bit assholish), until you all get back to their place (or yours, sometimes it’s easier for girls to “cheat” in a strange bedroom vs their own bedroom). Then make sure your boy knows to have a drink or two but then whisk his girl off to fuck…usually my wing and I play it like we’ll take our girl to help us pour drinks, then just make out and head to a bedroom leaving the other two alone in the living room where the guy can go “uhoh I think they’re fucking lol” and start building comfort and escalating. When she knows her friend is banging and no ones around to see her “cheat”, she’ll be a lot more receptive to fucking you than if its 4 of you drinking together till everyone falls asleep.
Really solid play all the way thru tho, even if you can’t crack this ASD/LMR situ because the logistics are so fucked, you executed it all awesomely. Great work!
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Thanks a million YaReally! I’ll let you know how this turns out. I posted this and your last FR breakdown into the Lair and the response has been solid. More people than just me has learned a fuckton from your insight and analysis.
-IG
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YaReally, how do you exactly change her mood and not her mind? I understand what it means and why it’s preferable, but I’m not sure how to execute it.
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Postmodern Matt
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The only relevant thing here is that it is beyond sad that this alcoholic party girl might one day be an M.D. Doubtful, however.
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She’s probably just going to medical school for the prestige and will meet an Alpha doctor there are start popping out kids. Then she’ll be some kind of “health consultant” leading Zumba or Yoga classes, the pinnacle achievement of every extroverted attention-whore.
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How do you know she’s an alcoholic? Or even a party girl? She’s 22. She sometimes goes to a bar where people know her. This is not a surprise. She is a hot chick.
Incidentally, I have dated multiple premed and med students. For the most part, they are pretty well-grounded. They do party, but a lot less frequently most other professional students (MBAs, JDs, and MACs, etc.).
The reality is that med school is extremely competitive, so they’ve got to be “on the ball” from the beginning of college through residency.
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“The only relevant thing here is that it is beyond sad that this alcoholic party girl might one day be an M.D. Doubtful, however.”
Ya kiddin’? Pre-med/med students party HAARRRRD! But like functioning dope fiends and drink-a-holics, they get by pretty well.
Like the one girl I know (she’s a doctor now) who told me, “yeah I’ve done some PRETTY WILD things in my life!”
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OT
Mud shark attack!
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2325902/Woman-bit-live-boyfriends-penis-refused-sex-her.html
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That doesn’t make any sense. Black guys usually date skinny white chicks with good muscle structure from stable families with a mother and a father.
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Lol. I know you’re being sarcastic, but I’ve actually been seeing a lot more “skinny white chicks with good muscle structure from stable families with a mother and a father” dating outside their race. I’m to the point that I just don’t give a shit anymore, but a few years ago it bothered me. I think it has something to do with the kind of non-judgmental values that are being promoted by stable families these days.
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” You want a tough shit test? How about when a girl tells you right off the bat you shouldn’t have even imagined she was a remote possibility for you? Yes, this has happened to me.”
ohhh. lemme e-kiss it better.
[CH: Ok. zzzziiiiiip]
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muah!
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ur such a whore lol I love it
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So did he hit or not? Sounds weird to get feedback on his strategy if he got the notch, since it obviously worked if he got it. Seems like he is putting her on quite a pedestal too. “Flawless body and intelligence”?
I lol more at the last part than anything else. I had an ex who was in med school and would brag about her GPA as a measure of how intelligent she was and how she got into med school. Should have burst her bubble that only reason she got into med school and kept such a high GPA was on the basis of her being female, teachers grading her favorably and an inherent positive discrimination towards her sex in admission rates. Her intelligence was not quite as stellar as she believed as illustrated by some conversations we had and concepts that went way over her head, though she was one of the few girls I could actually talk to about remotely challenging stuff
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Don’t you have to take a lot of hard sciences in pre-med? There’s really not much room for grade inflation or getting extra points for being a girl there. There’s really no room for subjectivity in calculus or organic chemistry. Either it’s right or it’s wrong, end of.
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In a perfectly fair world, that would be the case. Unfortunately, we don’t live in such a utopia. Studies have shown that despite studying less and less, students are receiving better grades. I have witnessed it first hand, there are a bevy of strategies used to inflate grades.
One of them is giving the students the ability to make up for failing prior exams by making the final count for all the marks of the semester, or making the mid term count for more if they do bad on the final.
Another is a sort of grade redistribution, where extra points from top students are redistributed to help others achieve better grades and prevent the teacher from looking good.
Of course, the “giving head to teacher” for better grades is not a myth as well. One of the psych teachers at my university has a notorious reputation for this. Though I can’t really blame him, his classes have a 15/1 ratio of guys to girls, and there are some truly hot young pieces of ass in his class.
The teacher liking you or not can also affect your grades for better or worse. I had a french class which I barely attended preferring to study at home. The teacher graded me way more harshly than other students and nitpicking every little detail with the result that a paper or exam that would have passed as an A for any other student would get a B at best.
Along with quotas for admission and stuff like affirmative action, being a female in med/law school does not necessarily mean you were more qualified or smarter than those who didn’t get in. The system is just in your favor and good on you for using it. Who wouldn’t?
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Dear Heartiste
I wonder if you could do a post specifically on some super powerful shit tests that women use and how you’d handle them.
That could be very enlightening.
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would love to read this one too
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http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/05/17/3402455/slow-hiring-in-miami-dade-keeps.html
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Another reason to join NumbersUSA.
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Dear CH,
I’d love a blog post or a page with all your maxims much the “Sixteen Commandments of Poon”.
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Dear Josue,
Why don’t you try to add some value here and make that compilation document yourself and share it with the community. You’ve gained a lot from CH, haven’t you? Why not try to give back.
Sincerely,
Management
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It’s been already done. You can start here
http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt134384.html
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Not that I’m an expert on game, but I would not have gone up with the group, ever. Exactly as stated in the OA, you risk becoming a categorized as a beta orbiter by even beginning to orbit for any reason. Without someone else around to strike up a conversation, I would have jetted.
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girl: you shouldn’t even imagine that i’m a remote possibility for you
you: i know….you’re punching way outta your league
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For not going upstairs alone, you are ahead of 90% of other men. Hovering is the norm and placing a value on your time and the pleasure of your company is the exception. As you know, it got you laid.
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[…] Should You Stay Or Should You Go? […]
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Leaving is mysterious. It’s also a little weird. So if the dynamic is “let’s go talk to my friend…” and she’s holding court, you would be leading.
I don’t know that the poster necessarily wanted to be alone with her, but he didn’t want to be stuck in a situation where he’s surrounded by 20-somethings and some dickhead bar-tender is getting her attention.
The only thing i can think of here is that if he had gone upstairs, he could have have DHV’d her by demanding the bar-tender get him a drink and put the girl in her place…
“Dude, sezerac…and put it on her tab….”
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He did well!
It was the classic, ‘lets you and him fight over me’ – or a variation on it. I think that women do these things unconciously, and the way to pass the test is to refuse to enter the contest, although sometimes they set the thing up so that you are already there and cannot avoid making polite conversation.
I recall one occasion when having been chatting a girl up, an older loser decided to crash in on our scene. I refuse to play ball, which led to a complaint from the woman – effectively – that I would not chase her. No way! whatever the outcome I would be sure to look absurd.
A real test (like the one CH mentions) is when a woman approached me asserting that I would never sleep with her – not that I had ever suggested it. I know what I should have replied but one cannot always think of things on the spur of the moment when one is simply gobsmacked at what one has just heard. The correct answer is that she would not be able to afford me, or something like that – thereby demonstrating your value and her desparation and lack of value.
Next time.
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The correct reply is “you might be right….I haven’t quite decided yet.”
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The true question here is — WWMKD?
What Would Matthew King Do?
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Chloroform and rope.
By the way, I love having a pet troll fan club. Keep it up, winners.
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“First, if you banged her, (which you implied), why do you care about getting feedback on your game? You won. Enjoy it. Obviously, you did enough right for any minor missteps to not matter.”
Knowing what you did right, and why, is just as important as knowing what you did wrong. Iterative feedback.
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I read the link to the Hovering post from 2008 and realized that Betas need, among other things, rejection management.
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Not deleting them from facebook is hovering in many cases.
My problem with this post is that 22 is already over the hill for those who are most attracted to them young and in most countries for that matter.
She was in no position to be seen as anything but seriously looking for a husband. Being known by the bartenders would be a big minus for her chances to find a decent husband.
The clock would have very little time for her at this point.
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“My problem with this post is that 22 is already over the hill for those who are most attracted to them young and in most countries for that matter.”
If only this were true. The vast majority of men will continue to desperately chase women until the wall nears. Broads these days can lose 20% of their sex appeal and still easily be head and shoulders above their male peers in SMV.
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To get back to the original question, cutting out here was acceptable if not ideal.
However, a more interesting question would have been;
What would you do in this spot, if you hadn’t already got her number?
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Personally I’d probably still bail. At some point hovering and hanging around just spins your wheels. Unless as CH said you’re an excellent conversationalist and can keep the focus on you. Usually by that time of night I’m tired and want to go home with or without a girl, but that’s just me.
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Okay She’s 22 years old, pre med student
So she’s still a college student at 22 hmmm At 22-23 she should have actually graduated from Medical College. I did and every female that I know in the same field did as well.
Post a pic I’ll give you her real rating son.
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Different in the US. Have to follow these steps: 1) attend and graduate from undergraduate university (4 years); 2) apply to and be accepted by a medical school (usually apply while in undergrad, but many folks take a year off); 3) attend med school (4 years); 4) apply for and complete residency (basically you’re a doc at this point provided you passed your exams, but you’ve still got between 1-4 years of supervised training to complete); 5) either become full-fledged doc or some do further specialization (1-3 additional years).
Point being, unlike many other countries our training for docs is very long. You can easily not be “done” until your late 20s or early 30s.
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Where did you go to medical school?
18 + 4 = 22 after college, and 22 + 4 = 26 after medical school.
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Hidden within the scenario described was a golden nugget:
Her: (my name)!
Her: Come find me
Me: (20 minutes later) Next time
I submit that ‘next time’ should be put up in the pantheon of the effective and often used replies such as “bring the movies”, “Didn’t want to get you pregnant”, and “gay” and can be used in MANY more scenarios than those:
-It is 2 words short without grammar showing unconcern and in a hurry and don’t have any time. It actually conveys that you’re doing something more important than to take time to explain or say anything to her.
-It sufficiently vague (‘next time we meet?’, next time we talk ? next time we text? ) can be used in almost any situation where the girl is making a request, demand, question, or even statement. She is being put on a figurative back burner
-Doesn’t even have to make much sense in the context of a reply
-It will probably be met with another text from the girl which can be ignored and will therefore amplfy the above described effects, thereby roughly compying with the maxim ‘for every 3 msgs from her she gets 2 from you”
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Agreed. “Next time” offers the possibility of a another encounter, initiated by her, of course. If she replies, then she’s DTF. If the convo goes cold, then she was never eager to spread that beaver for you. Either way, the phrase effectively weeds out the throbbin’-clitoris pole-smokers from the attention-whoring time-wasters.
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“I wanted to show her that she has no control over what I’m doing…”
Wanting to show her she has no control means she has control. The fact that you’re asking CH for a micromanaged analysis of one small interaction shows that she has control.
Just ignore the situation and do what YOU want to do next time. Set the tone YOU want. She can either roll with it or walk away
~http://theprometheanman.blogspot.com
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In politics, a well-placed zing can be devastating. LBJ once referred to Gerald Ford as “So dumb that he can’t chew gum and fart at the same time.” It did permanent damage to Ford’s reputation.
When a girl introduces you to the competition sometimes it’s because, like most things in a 20-something female’s life, she has no idea what she likes and needs some guy to figure it out for her.
An irretrievably hot 20 year old once introduced me to another guy. I didn’t have any chance to avoid the situation so I stayed aloof, talking past him and generally ignoring him. He looked great, but he was a goob. When she asked me later about him, I responded:
Me: Who? Oh… you mean “Westlake’s* Most Wanted”?
She confessed later that it was so spot on that she could no longer look at him without giggling. win.
Consider giving your “competition” nicknames and if you do it right, you’ll knock them out with one punch(line).
* The local equiv. of Malibu which was the insufferably SWPL part of town.
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Why would you waste your time on a hot chick who is fucking half the staff at the bar and who hops into bed with guys she has just met? Are you that desperate for sex? Do you think this adds to your prestige? Screwing a whore, amateur or professional, is nothing to brag about.
I thought game was about screwing girls who otherwise wouldn’t. This girl is not one of those.
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dammit gramps! every time i shuffle hands in pockets to any alpha friend for advice, its starts with ‘why would you waste your time …’. The measure of an alpha seems to be the value of his time.
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I suppose everone plays the adolescent game once in awhile.
At least she realized and found you were out. It was very apparent from the feigned attempt at manhood and macho, that you needed help.
I am glad she also knew you you were gay early on.
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