Anonymous (choose a handle you lazy bum) lists the stringent copulation criteria that would need to be met for a woman (or her hamster) to admit that the sex she was having “counts”.
Unless a girl has:
1. vaginal intercourse
2. with a guy
3. multiple times
4. over multiple days
a. that are not in a row
b. but are not separated by more than a month from each other
5. in her region of residence in her home country,
6. not during spring break or another vacation
7. while sober from alcohol and drugs, including legal prescriptions
“it doesn’t count”.
General Social Survey data experts are baffled that the face-to-face questioning the GSS utilizes yields inaccurate results about women’s sexual habits.
Maxim #101: The sluttier the girl, the more noticeably pregnant she’ll need to be before she admits to having had sex that “counts”.
Corollary to Maxim #101: Even then…. “Oh, it’s the way the shirt fits.”
Unless a girl has:
1. vaginal intercourse
2. with a guy
3. multiple times
4. over multiple days
a. that are not in a row
b. but are not separated by more than a month from each other
5. in her region of residence in her home country,
6. not during spring break or another vacation
7. while sober from alcohol and drugs, including legal prescriptions
“it doesn’t count”.
I think even this very narrow definition of what counts is negotiable. If she’s cheating, even all of these criteria may not be enough for her to admit to herself or anyone else that it counts.
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That’s kind of the point, right? The actual “it counts” rules are less important than the spirit behind them, which is, simply, that women can justify almost any sexual encounter as being “not sex” to suit their own internal narrative. (Actually, we can justify just about anything to ourselves. We’ll happily lie to ourselves for the rest of our lives if the lie is easier to lie with than the truth. Which is why so many girls scream rape, but that’s another subject entirely)
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Since emotion is the Providence of female behavior and conduct, sex that “counts” is generally that in which all the stages of seduction have been applied and processed beforehand. To her it is legitimate, because she was able to spread her legs with sound body and mind and strength of spirit.
I’m currently banging a married waitress semi-regularly, and age sometimes attempts to away me into taking her on romantics dates, to which I firmly deny on the grounds that I do not wine and dine women that are sleeping with men other than me. Her argument is that sex with her husband “doesn’t count” as it is merely a matter of necessity and is carried out without passion or desire.
The fact of the matter is, whether it “counts” in her mind or not, the physical ravages of promiscuous sex are undeniable. A whore is a whore is a whore.
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“and age sometimes attempts to away me into taking her on romantics dates”
that should read “and she sometimes attempts to sway me into taking her on romantic dates”.
don’t text and drink bros
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Courting behavior? Not always. Like I said, you have to think about this as a function of the female mind, not a set of criteria specific to one woman. But as to your last point, I completely agree. Promiscuity scars a woman’s soul.
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What’s not awesome is when–because she’s been raised by the feminist go-grrrl culture that we discuss here–your GF *proudly* tells you about how she once made a deal with an ex BF that if he helped her move some furniture, she’d owe him 40 BJs in a row, and he moved the furniture, and she tried to keep her end of the bargain and made it up to about number 32 or so. And she tells you this like she thinks you actually don’t mind hearing that sort of shit or that she actually gets points for putting in so much practice to get better or something. Only in our “society” today could this happen. I’m not a jealous and possessive loser, but guys still don’t want to hear this, especially when GF is 35 and she’s talking about when she was 27 and the other guy got it when it was younger, tighter, and hotter. That little thing she told me one time really pissed me off more than she knows and was part of what led to the breakup.
Also, I’m not into anal. I would never want to do that; I think it’s gross. So if you tell your GF that, and she says, “I’m okay with that,” that means she has also been okay with doing anal in her past, right?
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It doesn’t count unless he’s good looking or charming or sexy or witty or funny or mysterious.
[CH: ftfy]
All else is plausible deniability.
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“Corollary to Maxim #101: Even then…. “Oh, it’s the way the shirt fits.””
Hahaha that’s so funny.
This will maybe sound bad.. but I have assumed that a man would be able to understand if a woman has been with a lot of men before or not. So she could lie but surely he would be able to understand from the feeling of things in her down there area. If a woman says she is a virgin and she isn’t, for sure a man will know when they make love.
So what is the point in lieing about this… I think it would be obvious if she’s experienced with many men when they do it.
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Except most men haven’t been with enough women to know the diff. And to begin with a pussy is a pussy is a pussy. No matter how tight or wet (or not). The affection grip kills them, but only later on.
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that’s why you should always trick them into telling you what whores they are. the actual number isn’t too important because they’ll still lie. But if you can trick them into admitting to always cheating on their boyfriends and sucking random dicks and swallowing random cum in bar bathrooms every week, she’s yours to toy with.
Go with it and fuck her and treat her like shit, or if your only goal that night is to make a woman feel like she should kill herself, change your tune and tell her she’s a pig and immediately walk away.
Talk about what an animal you are, but in a feminine “girlfriends talking” sort of way. If she still sees you as a guy, she won’t admit to the sick things she does. But if she sees you as her equal (as equal as 2 people could be), she’ll admit to you what a vile pig she truly is.
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This will maybe sound bad.. but I have assumed that a man would be able to understand if a woman has been with a lot of men before or not.
Men? Yes. Betas? Not so sure. Or they’re desperate.
Here’s CH’s column on the matter:
https://heartiste.wordpress.com/2008/12/29/its-easy-to-identify-a-slut/
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the difference between even the largest male genitals and a baby’s head is pretty significant. so i think it’d be pretty unreliable to gauge sexual experience solely by vaginal observation, i just don’t think it’s causing long-term stretching. besides which, even if it were accurate, she could easily just have been in a relationship having a lot of sex.
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“besides which, even if it were accurate, she could easily just have been in a relationship having a lot of sex.”
yes, I didn’t consider that. You are right.
I was speaking more about if she hadn’t had babies yet, I should have specified.. I have heard it doesn’t go back to how it was before after you give birth though.
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> “the difference between even the largest male genitals and a baby’s head is pretty significant.”
Has anybody here ever crossed paths with one of these “bisexual” porn starlets who’s been fisted?
Or even just a hyper-nymphomaniac girl-next-door type in the real world, who’ll do anything at least once, and who likes to take the fist from her girlfriends every so often.
Because I’m wondering whether a chick can ever again enjoy “normal” coital relations with a man after she’s been ripped apart like that.
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“Because I’m wondering whether a chick can ever again enjoy “normal” coital relations with a man after she’s been ripped apart like that.”
That’s just masochistic. women are crazy.
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It’s got to be dangerous too
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Particularly when they take the fist in the backside.
I honestly don’t understand how the porn starlets can keep in their bowel movements once they start down that path.
It seems like they would have to wear something like adult “Depends” diapers for the rest of their lives.
Seriously – yeesh.
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Shane, they DO have to wear Depends, as do male sodomites. There are plenty of medical journal articles on rectum/sphincter reconstruction, ways of dealing with loose sphincters and the like. Just don’t expect to hear any songs on Glee about the problem.
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“Shane, they DO have to wear Depends, as do male sodomites”
Yes I have heard this about gay men… my aunt told me when I was a teenager that they become very damaged in that area and have to wear diapers. It makes me feel sick.
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Or wear something else that is designed for women..but I can’t bring my self to type it as it is so vile.
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Philistine. They suffer for their art. Every true assterpiece demands some measure of personal sacrifice.
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It’s truly an abomination
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Romans 1:26-32 “For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.”
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Science have prove that homosexuality is born with, and is difficult to change.
http://robertlindsay.wordpress.com/2012/03/16/male-sexual-orientation-is-fixed-by-age-15-female-sexual-orientation-is-apparently-changeable/
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Sandy I said nothing of Homosexuality, I just quoted some Biblical scripture.
That is an interesting study, but it says the sexuality is fixed by the age of 15, it doesn’t mention anywhere about being born with it.
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As somebody that has thoroughly enjoyed the company of a complete nympho, I can attest that after having done all kinds of things to her pussy with all kinds of things including my fists… it does indeed go back to normal like magic. There’s still a chance that once she’s older maybe things might loosen up but I’m pretty sure a tight pussy is just in her genes.
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+1 srs. Tho disagree with the whole ‘she’ll be looser’ implication because that’s not how biology works lol.
The diff in experience is just easy to spot.
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I think there are several clues – which taken in the aggregate – will give a girl away if she is engaging in “creative accounting.”
Sidenote: What is “embracingourfemininity?” Is is a movement of some sort?
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Alec it is the name of my blog http://embraceyourfeminity.wordpress.com/ .. trying to encourage women to be feminine, and about many different matters regarding gender roles mostly from a Biblical perspective.
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Delightful. I’m sure I will enjoy it. It’s not rocket surgery – most men I know really enjoy the company of happy, feminine women. That it needs to be stated and advocated is itself a commentary on the sad state of our affairs.
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😀
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Lots of partners doesn’t really impact tightness. It will impact STDs however. Children will cause a woman to become loose if she fails to try and tighten up again after childbirth.
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I asked a very similar question of this friend of mine who’s a huge player. He says you can tell if a girl doesn’t have her hymen…but not all virgins still have their hymens. (Example: I lost mine horseback riding when I was a little kid.) Other than that, it’s all about individual physical differences. Some girls are just naturally “small” and others aren’t. Promiscuity doesn’t really affect that, although for some girls childbirth does. He said even then, you can’t always tell. Sometimes everything “bounces back,” and sometimes it doesn’t.
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Aha! The famous “horseback riding” card. Are you sure it wasn’t gymnastics? Maybe both?
While we’re talking, why is it that young girls love horses so?
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Nope, definitely horseback riding. I mistimed my post. Felt it go and everything. It really wasn’t all that painful; maybe a 3 or 4 out of 10, and it only lasted a couple of minutes. There wasn’t a whole lot of blood, either.
There’s a whole bunch of Freudian stuff about why girls aged 8-14 go nuts for horses. If that was the case with me, it wasn’t something I was aware of on a conscious level…but I can attest that I gave it up right around the time I started dating actual human males.
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I have heard of women going horseback riding losing theirs.. some cultures advise young girls from riding horses for exactly this reason, and from using you know what at a woman’s time of month..because many men want proof of their wife’s virginity.
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some cultures even want to see the bed sheets of the wedding night
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The bedsheet thing, yes, that’s particularly big in the Arab world. To the point where there’s a whole process that girls who lost their hymens via accident will fake a hymen for the wedding night. I’m given to understand it involves chicken skin and blood (now THERE’s an infection just waiting to happen…).
I also have a friend who lost hers while bike-riding. She had a boy’s bike and she fell onto the bar going over a curb. Yes, I was there when it happened. The funny part was her accident happened about two weeks after mine so I was able to tell her what was going on, and that she shouldn’t worry about it too much.
As for the feminine products thing…that’s pretty much a myth. You just have to use the ones labeled “slender,” and be careful with them.
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Multiple counts of involuntary cherryslaughter. Or was there secret malice aforethought?
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I believe you.
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We’re ready to believe you.
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FlowerBusters.
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I’ve been meaning to ask: what is your position (heh) on pegging?
No lying now. I know you want to sabotage the psychological profile I am developing on you, but I will call upon your famous and sexxxy honesty to be speak truly.
My (clinical) interest was piqued by your recommendation I “start with [your] heart shaped ass” a thread or two back.
Truly,
Matt
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Pegging? I’m kind of squicked out by the idea, frankly. Now, don’t get me wrong, there are plenty of guys who are into having a single slender feminine finger* introduced to their fundament during oral pleasure, and I’m happy enough to oblige upon request. (That’s what soap and nail brushes are for.)
However, I have only been asked once to use anything larger than that, and it was a struggle to conceal my revulsion, which was reflexive and visceral.
*They are, actually. It’s just that the ring fingers are longer than the index fingers.
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Slender, but with knobby, hairy knuckles “for his comfort.” The original french tickler.
First it starts with a finger, then it’s “say, have you ever tried a plug?”, then one of your thinner dildos, then you’re browsing the web for the strapparatus “out of curiosity”…
Gay life begins at Penetreception. You either do all the breaching or none of it. The plastic is off your boyfriends’ collectible, the homos.
So, no desire to penetrate. But is there a desire to take charge of the sex act? Do you submit to slapping, binding, hair-pulling?
I think you just might be a woman trapped in a woman’s body after all. Much depends on just how round you file those nails off.
Matt
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Matt, Matt, Matt.
I’ve actually described myself physically in these comments at least once, but you know what? I’ll do it again, one more time, for the record. For you.
I present as feminine. Oh, yes, I have the LDR, but that’s subtle. You have to know to look for it. My hands and fingers are long and slender and no, they’re not hairy. Yes, my jaw is square, and I have a high forehead, but my eyes are large and uptilted at the outer corners, and I have high, sculpted cheekbones. I use judicious, subtle makeup to emphasize my best traits, and I wear my hair extremely long and layered around my face to soften my jawline. Yes, I’m an A-cup, but my WHR is .69…I have round hips and a nipped-in, well-defined waist with a belly that’s almost perfectly flat.
You may or may not find me attractive, but I assure you that I do *not* look like a man.
I find it quite curious that you continue to ascribe masculine physical traits to me. Even more curious that you want to know whether or not I’m up for taking a strap-on tool to…you know….just a guy. Any guy.
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@RappaccinisDaughter If you are in fact a woman, you certainly don’t write like one. I think this is what Heartiste refers to as a “masculine psychology”.
P.S. I mean that neither as a compliment nor an insult.
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@cryo: No offense (or delight) taken.
Unfortunately, there’s no way to prove that I’m female without endangering my anonymity. Still, it shouldn’t be any harder to suspend your disbelief enough to engage with me online than it is to accept some of the other stories you’ve no doubt raised your eyebrows over.
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“Unfortunately, there’s no way to prove that I’m female without endangering my anonymity.”
You have an insufficiently lascivious imagination. Get a Sharpie and an index card, print your username on it with today’s date, then take a selfie that leaves nothing to the imagination save your face, tattoos, and other identifying marks. Upload the image and give us the URL. It’s easy, once you try.
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Ah, yes. Uploading nude photos of myself to the Internet. What could possibly go wrong?
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Do not read anything into my research. It proceeds purely from a disinterested and impersonal fascination.
The slender 0.69 more than makes up for the Olivia Wilde-mandible.
At what pitch is your voice?
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My voice is deep and throaty. Personally, I hate the way it sounds when I hear it played back to me, but I’m told by others that they find it quite pleasant.
Now, quid pro quo, Matt. What do you look like?
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Nuh-uh, that’s not how this works. You get a verbal hint when I get a photographic one.
“Quid pro quo”? You are so transactional. My love is unconditional.
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Gay.
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I lost mine horseback riding
i’ve seen the videos
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I once was a guy, who loved a certain girl…
She was “not like the rest”, she was a special one…
She told me her girl friend was naive,
that the friend lacked experience…
That this friend had only been with…
Two guys, at most, at once!
And that made me question,
what sort of love that was…
Where the numbers were similar…
But the units were different!
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Honestly…if a nun told me she was a virgin I’d still give her the ole skeptical look.
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I once was a boy, she was a girl, not like the rest.
She showed me her room, by which I mean, her hairy nest.
She asked me to stay, and she told me her best friend was young.
I looked up and down and noticed that I was well hung.
I munched on her rug, biding my time, wondering why
She could be good friends with a girl who had two guys at once.
She told me her girl friend had not so much experience.
I told her I questioned what kind of love followed from that.
Then, when I awoke, I was alone, this bird had flown.
So I lit a fire, isn’t it good? Norwegian Wood.
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Keep Calm,
It
Didn’t
Count.
Keep Calm,
I
don’t want
to
get you
pregnant.
Keep calm,
RAPE.
Keep calm,
Lolzlolzlolzlolzlolzlolzomglolz.
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[…] heartiste.wordpress.com […]
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True story;
I once knew a woman who told me she had been with 30 different men
I asked her how many of those were one night stands
she told me guy’s she had only had sex once with did not count, they were not part of the 30 she mentioned and refused to provide a number for those
funny because those are exactly the ones that count.
you can not measure a woman’s sluttiness as easily by how many boyfriends she has had as you can by how many one night stands she has had
it seems women are well aware of that since what really counts is conveniently not counted by women.
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# of boyfriends does count for something. At least half of my friends will never get over 3 partners. Several married either the first or second guy they were with.
In practice, a game blog is for the girls that are left over after peak attractiveness. So many girls I know got married to a guy they started dating before they were 24, and many got married to guys they met in college. If you are an adult guy over 30, dating college age girls is not that easy. Mostly you will end up dating the girls who are single in the adult world (23+).
I only have 2 sane friends that are 100% single at 30. The rest are crazy or something else unpleasant and probably not women you would ideally want to date.
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Another true story.
I suspected that a woman that I was banging had a substantial N count. She had several of the slut “tells” that Heartiste once listed, right down to her broad and varied fellatio skills.
One day, I asked her how many times she had sex with a man on the very same day that she met him.
She responded that she had only ever had two one night stands in her whole life.
I replied that she really didn’t answer my question, and that the number of “one night stands” she had was different from what I had asked(ie., the married guy she met while walking her dog in the park who she boffed one afternoon didn’t count) . She then got quiet, and I could see the wheels spinning in her head.. When she eventually did speak, she said she didn’t appreciate my question(this woman loved to boast of her honesty and how her life was an open book), and changed the subject.
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They also don’t count it when they get paid for it
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Check. Any kind of compensated vacation or free rental type of thing, or anything part-time doesn’t count either. In their own minds many hookers and strippers are practically virgins.
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Would husbands count?
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Not when their wives are banging me
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they accept drinks as a form of payment.
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or if it was rebound sex after being in an unhaaaapppyyyy relationship
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Or instead of giving an inaccurate number, they could relish it…
A gf badgered me about my number for days, and after trying multiple reframes (apparently I’m not too good at it), I finally just gave her my real number.
Her response?
“Beat you!”
[CH: She’s joking or she doesn’t much respect you.]
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… and so the Red Flag was raised to flutter in the breeze while the clarion call of sluts immemorial blasted for all men to hear.
I am Slut hear me roar.
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“… and so the Red Flag was raised to flutter in the breeze while the clarion call of sluts immemorial blasted for all men to hear.
I am Slut hear me roar.”
And the betas wept…
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Joking or not you should demote her from LTR to fuck buddy status, though dont tell her, treat her as such instead.
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Instant demotion for sure. Although my favorite- or least favorite- instant demotion was this one:
A girl once asked if I “had been with a black girl”…
Me: “Sure I have.”
And without asking her the same question back, she offered…
“I’ve been with a black guy once but it didn’t last very long…he was too big.”
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Holy fuck I loled at this.
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Only if you judge a girl, I think. The two girls I’ve slept with in the last month and a half have no trouble telling me anything. One is def more experienced than the other, tho.
And the only reason to judge a girl, IMHO, is the lingering ‘I WANT TO BE THE BEST‘ feeling. The more she’s had, the less likely that is. I’ve been blessed in that I’ve never given a shit about that. lol.
[CH: Not true. Go to the link and read the studies. Women lie about their sexual history even when they aren’t being judged by anyone. It’s what they do, because they know how important their chasteness is to their SMV.]
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So I read the blurb about the studies…and I honestly don’t care/mind how many guys a girl has been with…as long as she isn’t a slut. Ya ya one correlates with the other, blah blah. Point being…I’m ready to accept being wrong on this one.
However, the blurb says that the groups were either told that their answers would be anonymous, that they were hooked up to a lie detector, and that a researcher was watching. In all three the girls still knew they were taking a survey.
So…as I can’t find the study directly I have a few questions: how did the researchers figure out that the women were lying? Were certain conditions — anonymous vs. researcher watching — more conducive to truthful answers, producing discrepancies?
Or did they just assume that because the average number of partners should be the same for both sexes, they’d see the effect of these different experiment modes on that average?
I’m not really sure how you’d even test for factors like trust/non-judginess. Telling a girl her answer is anonymous still probably won’t alleviate that gut level irrational fear.
It’s all very interesting tho.
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come back here when you’re older than 21….like when you’re 36 and have lived a little bit. after 15 more years of interacting with women, your cute optimism and enthusiam will be gone.
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I dunno…it’s just realism. Hypergamy can work in your favor, too y’know. If you’re high value, she won’t stray. If you’re high value, that stuff really doesn’t matter.
If she’s a slut tho….that means she just gives it away. In that case, ya, you probably don’t want her as your gf or main squeeze.
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So you wouldn’t give a shit if a girl with the Thousand Cock Stare and a shredded vagina from years of mileage was your current flame? Doesn’t sound like a blessing to me dude.
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And to follow up, I don’t mean that carouselling sluts aren’t useful, because they certainly are if you’re just looking to get your dick wet. But to be completely non-judgmental is weak behavior from a man.
I mean even if you end up completely converting a former slut into your faithful and doting partner, she’s still a tramp that has had miles of dick forcibly plunged into her cavernous loins. And yes, even the good girls become sluts when they are targeted by the maestros of Game, but the thing to do is snag her before that’s happened.
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‘But to be completely non-judgmental is weak behavior from a man.’
How? Judging another person is just another way to refuse to take them on their terms, which is just a type of fear. There’s a difference between ‘ya, you’re a slut….welp, that’s not for me, later’ — non-judgmental — and ‘WOW YOU’VE SLEPT WITH 7 DUDES? GROSS! UGH!’
Game doesn’t turn girls into sluts. The girls just see high value and want it. Sluts just see……..any source of sexual validation and want it. Big difference.
‘the thing to do is snag her before that’s happened.’
Lol her hypergamy will remain active, regardless of your timeline.
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“Lol her hypergamy will remain active, regardless of your timeline.”
No shit. That’s why I’m able to retain my girls that haven’t been through the meat grinder. They know that there is no one better and they are lucky to have me.
And they also know that this would never be afforded them of they behaved like sluts in the past.
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So then the next question now is — what’s the difference?
If she’s been with 0 guys or 10 guys….if there is no one better and they are lucky to have you, I don’t see the problem.
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“So then the next question now is — what’s the difference?
If she’s been with 0 guys or 10 guys….if there is no one better and they are lucky to have you, I don’t see the problem.”
I guess we just see things differently. My view is, why should I put in the work required to maintain a relationship with a girl that gave it up for 10 guys before me? Yes, I’ll hit it with a condom, but the ride ends there.
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Ya, I mean…I’d agree with you if those 10 guys were just smelly bums. But hey, let’s just say you happen across Megan Fox (or some other woman you think is a 10)…and she’s great, feminine, etc. blah blah blah. She’s also been with 10 guys….but those 10 guys were like, all in short/long-term relationships, and y’know…the list is like Brad Pitt, George Clooney, etc.
I mean…….is she a slut who isn’t worth your relationship time? She could just be a high value woman who is constantly bombarded with scores of high value male attention.
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Vaginas don’t get “shredded” from years of mileage (unless she was into some kinky self-mutiliation shit lol). And the Thousand Cock Stare/Whore Eye is the universal look of a slut. Number of sexual partners, while it does admittedly correlate, isn’t the be all/end all.
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Well, there’s an active lie, there’s the lie by omission, and then there’s the lie of self-deception.
The active lie is, “Oh no, honey, I’ve only had two boyfriends before you, you’re #3.”
The lie by omission is simply ducking the question. “You’re the only one who matters to me. If only I had met you sooner!”
The lie of self-deception–which I like to call the Costanza Lie–follows George Costanza’s edict that it’s not a lie if you believe it. So, if you can convince yourself that the one guy didn’t count because you were both drunk and the other guy didn’t count because it was on vacation and the other guy didn’t count because he only put the tip in…then you can repeat your amended numbers feeling honest.
Which one you go with depends a lot on where you fall on the guilt vs. shame continuum. To clarify: Guilt is an internally generated feeling of having done something wrong, and is suffered regardless of whether anyone else ever finds out about your real or perceived transgression. Shame is an externally generated feeling caused by others becoming aware of your transgression; if nobody ever found out about it, you’d never feel bad.
The enlightened Western cultures are guilt cultures, although certainly shame is part of the equation. A woman who feels guilty about her number of sexual partners (but may feel little shame, since it is relatively easy to keep most of your social circle in the dark about how many men you’ve been with) will try to assuage those feelings by tricking herself…hence the “it doesn’t count” trope. A woman who has no guilt but wishes to avoid shame will simply tell baldfaced lies, even as she knows exactly what her real number is. A woman who feels no guilt and isn’t terribly worried about shame–but who wishes to keep matters of the past in the past–will tell lies of omission.
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I guess. I’m still skeptical of this notion that women just can’t tell the truth about their sexual histories. They’re just people, dudebros….people want to share themselves and their stories. Establishing trust, even if it’s not a silver bullet, seems to go a loooooong way. I just find that after listening to them on their terms, eventually, they want my advice, my counsel, my impositions of judgment. But hey, that’s partly just how I was raised….you want to help someone on their journey in life, you have to be able to see them for who they actually are and not who you want them to be — first and foremost — then bring out what good you can.
I’m not expecting to grow flowers in a desert.
But I can live and breathe and see the sun in wintertime.
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Oh, it’s not that we can’t. It’s that most of us have learned that it’s just not wise to do so. Even the calmest, most rational, non-jealous guy tends to really not like to think about who else might have been there before him. At the very minimum, going on and on about one’s sexual past indicates that one may not be ready to leave it in the past.
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To be fair, I don’t really ask about it either. Thinking on it more, lol…I just infer a lot of it from the way someone talks about/discusses certain topics.
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I’m pretty sure GBFM wrote this article on the Wall Street Journal website
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323823004578595803296798048.html
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“Critical theory” ruined literature for college students.
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I wonder if GBFM is Victor Davis Hanson, Thomas Sowell, or another well-known intellectual moonlighting on men’s forums.
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It doesn’t count if it was in the past and you didn’t have it with her.
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Hey, we can’t forget the phenomenon of ‘born again virgins’, I love those type of girls, actually I dont, they tend to be the bitchiest because they are ‘beyond sex’.
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All the girls I said “I love you” to…they didn’t count.
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A good riposte.
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A girl once told me it didn’t count because “it was only for like a second.”
Please somebody let me know the last time you have had sex with a girl, for just a second.
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Are we including Matt King in the study group, or not?
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Yes… right alongside… YOUR MOTHER!
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Perhaps she meant a series of individual seconds seriatim?
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It matters because chicks carry the pain of bad relationships for years and years. If you marry a chick with a long history u will pay the price. The best present u can give your children is a cheerful loving happy feminine mother. Girls with prostitute like numbers loose all those qualities
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What difference does it make, really? This is a question best left unasked… by both sexes.
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hamster power ftw!
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OT.
how would you handle a girl whos been subtly hinting for a relationship…after banging 4 times over the course of a month. Havent hung in two weeks.Last exchange i was trying to get her over as usual.
Me: “lets chill tnight”
Her: “and do what” (first i’ve ever heard this)
Me: “arts and crafts”
Her: “Haha sounds fun!”
Me: “Hmmm”
Me: “So?”
Her: “Not tonight. I’ve been feeling sick lately”
Me: “*Jimmy fever eh?” (*Not my real name)
then like 45 minutes later
Her: “too bad you cant come over. im watching movies alone :/”
i try to avoid overly beta response…something neutral.
Me: “ya too bad youre not up for it”
Her: “I dont want to have sex tonight…”
Me: “And?”
Her “And what?”
Me: “Are you inviting me over…”
Her “You cant come over.”
Me: “I know right.”
I had no fuckin clue what to say so i reverted to one of my default aloof responses. Though in hindsight i wish id have not responded at all.
The deal now is, i hit her up three days later and she completely ignored me. for the first time. IBeen goin out, gaming others yada yada.
Im not opposed to giving this girl signs of provider/LTR type of guy…assuming it wouldnt be a death knell after 4 bangs in a month. Up until this blow off, shes been reliable, submissive, shes young. Treats me well…sorta scared of my opinion of her, and can be sweet about trying to please me. Doesnt stir drama up in my life. I wonder if im not giving enough beta provider signals and going too much alpha. Cant say i really know how to navigate when a girl is feeling insecure about whether you truly want her or not….to keep the legs open and the hamster spinnin.
t]
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Here, let me have a whirl at this –
The first exchange is good, till art and craft.
The Hmm.. So? is pushing it, in a slightly desperate way. Just so.. or just Hmm.. would’ve been fine, but both one after the other is kinda desperate. You showed your hand there, and not in a good way.
She said a no in a very lame and obvious way, but you fell for the bait, again. Jimmy fever eh?? is again too try hard and attention seeking. You should probably have been ball busting or ignoring.
She completely ignores your comment and replies late, another bait.Too bad you cant come over. You fall for it again! Too bad you’re not up for it???? i mean, no offense but reeks of desperation. Just ask yourself, if you had a couple of real options apart from her, would you have responded this way?
Too bad.. sex… STILL time to salvage it, you reply with so.. which does open up some possibilities, but then follow up with.. Are you inviting me over? I mean, wtf dude, this is like a very pushy nerd pretending to be badass asking for permission to enter a restricted club. Not only were you completely and utterly the pushy beta, but you also indirectly pedestalized her by asking blatantly so many times. Honestly i think she was just stroking her ego after the second exchange.
You need to step up your text game in the very least, read the Chateau archives. You’ll pick it up eventually.
Good luck.
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Comment stuck in moderation perhaps?
Btw,why would you give the girl more signs of provider/beta? I think you really need to think before responding instead of going in with preconceived notions – okay 4 bangs, beta behavior, six bangs, act aloof, 8 bangs, first anal etc. Your calibration seems a bit off. But maybe I’m wrong and you’re right and you should just go ahead and gift her some chocolates to keep her legs open.
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ya i can dig what youre saying…i was being sort of consciously beta. Ive been aloof and terse throughout knowing her, and suspected (part of why i posted this…unsure) that she may be withdrawing…feeling like shes jus getting strung along.
I watched a similar scenario play out a few years back with a much less attractive girl, who i really didnt give a flying fuck about.ya ya ya ya gotta be that way w all of em…i have. Though its taken stricter regulation. And it was like 5 bangs w the uglier one a few years back, and then all this coyness and bs starting cropping up….she had been subtly pushing for a relationship.
Im trying to figure out what ratio of beta reassurance (if any) would be necessary in my current example. As it is, i relented and consciously acted a bit more attainable…less gamey. Possibly to my disadvantage. Mis calibration is entirely possible…which is why i solicit advice from people experienced in harem management lol. others need not apply w/out legit experience.
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“”The deal now is, i hit her up three days later and she completely ignored me. for the first time. IBeen goin out, gaming others yada yada.””
I hate the alpha / beta dichotomy but that above is because of your bad text exchange, most probably.
See, beta reassurance does not mean pedestalizing her, acting desperate or losing who you are. It just involves incorporating certain aspects of “beta” behaviour into your supposedly alpha persona. These should be rare, only when absolutely needed or when it suits your purpose.
Examples of good beta — Calling her (twice a year,perhaps?) on random occasions and talking for 3-4 hours, getting her an extravagant gift on a random day(April Fool’s Day!), raising a toast to her/praising her loudly and extravagantly(in a charming way if you can pull it off, else avoid. never do this when drunk) in front of family/friends/the whole restaurant after having made her feel like shit the preceding days etc.
Some beta is good, most beta is bad (Seriously tho, your pussy rox!).
You really need to focus on pushing yourself and becoming better. I dont think you’re anywhere close to Alpha in the way the term in used here, but that’s okay, you’ll get better. The current ratio of beta u need in your relationship is about 1%. She didnt withdraw bec she was being strung along, she withdrew bec u acted a little too desperate.
ugh, long post. But maybe I’m wrong and you should wait for someone with legit experience to reply
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“I dont think you’re anywhere close to Alpha in the way the term in used here, but that’s okay, you’ll get better. ”
heh. thx champ. ill try. long time reader…well versed in ch text etiquette, tho i will concede this may have backfired.
probly irrelevant now, but my “are you inviting me over..” was in reference to her earlier text. She said “too bad you cant come blah blah”. And id never heard a reason why i couldnt come over, so i was inquiring about that….not flat out proposing it. I had hit her up to chill, then randomly she sent me that. So i was really trying to clarify what the fuck she was saying…though in hindsight i would have rather just disappeared after the invite turn-down.
cant tell if ur last comment is sarcasm or serious. if youre a keyboard jockey then yes i think i will wait. All the same i agree it was a bit of a lapse in judgement. id be pretty surprised if this was an incriminating, shut-the-pussy-down beta exchange….so im not sure i can swallow the cliche immediate criticism. But then, im open to it. Theres been bunch of times ive been suprised that i still have a bit of beta attitude to scrape away. Maybe it speaks to the sexual markets cruelty if this exchange were enough to repel a girl youve boned 4 times and was subtly probing for a relationship.
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This seems to be a matter of trying to be all terse and shit when it’s clear you’re losing value to her.
‘Her: “too bad you cant come over. im watching movies alone :/”
Me: “ya too bad youre not up for it”'”
wtf. why did you say that lol
In this situ I’d try to trojan horse it. ‘Ya I’ll come over and we’ll just chill and talk and cuddle’ – esque. I mean, in reality……we all know what would happen when I or you went over there.
But honestly, I would have added stuff to the arts and crafts joke (she’s already behaving strangely at that point…which means she’s uneasy)….’arts and crafts — I’ve been practicing making balloon animals but they end up kind of looking like my dick if it were pink :(‘
Let’s say she says same thing ‘sounds fun!’
‘Ya, let’s do it like around 9?’
‘Not tonight, been feeling a little sick lately’
‘o shit….I’ll bring u chicken noodle soup, but only if you give me a nice backrub and get me pizza’
blah blah blah. point being, just whatever it takes to get you over there. Once you’re there, you’re -in-.
I don’t even think it’s about beta provider v. alpha…I think it’s the fact that terseness/aloof only maintains value…but you do it long enough, and they start to wonder ‘wait, why am I here again?’ So then you demonstrate all of those traits again just as a reminder. Instead of alpha alpha beta —> awesome/ aloof/ awesome.
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i said it because i had hit her up to chill, and it was the first time shed ever balked like that. It was uncharacteristic. I had written the evening off so when she hit me up 45 mins later with that…i thought id call her bluff. The deal is that apparantly I cant go to her home (lives w parents). I never have. Every time weve chilled has been at my place. It has never even come up..me going to hers..so this was out of left field. I took this as her like pseudo-inviting me over…because she wants some sort of commitment reassurance. Think bout it. I hit her up to chiull after weve casually boned over a the whole month…she says for the first time “And do what?” Immediately something is up here…uncharacteristic. I took it has her indirectly trying to see if i would be willing to see her w/out the sex (never have).
So thats why i put the onus back on her…with the “too bad you aint down”. to call her bluff. And it did call her bluff, because she blurted that she didnt want to have sex. So it was female trickery…the motivations for i have no idea. I assumed it was a test for commitment. lol what the hell else could i have actively done? Id rather have just ignored the whole thing.
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‘So thats why i put the onus back on her…with the “too bad you aint down”. to call her bluff. And it did call her bluff, because she blurted that she didnt want to have sex. So it was female trickery…the motivations for i have no idea.’
ya but you gain nothing by calling out female trickery every time it rears its ugly head. Do you honestly think that if you had ended up over there — even if you just said ‘ya I’ll bring you chicken soup and we can talk’ — you would have left without having sex with her? lol c’mon man…feed her hamster of not being a cum dumpster at least a little — she is a person….
That’s the real subtext to this. She wants you to come over, but she just wants you to reassure her….just a little.
‘what the hell else could i have actively done?’
Trojan horse. Stop focusing on what she’s saying and realizing what the whole thing is about. That’s just my take on it…and I’m sure there are a lot of other commentators who will say ‘nah bro, amp up the asshole….write -gay-…blah blah blah…’ I can just speak to the approach that works for me.
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no i agree with ya. Im not sure what woulda happened…had i said that because i dont know if she can legit have people over. In hindsight im thinking maybe her final “YOU CANT COME OEVR” was just her reacting emotionally to me not handling it like a trojan horse. Maybe the window was open…and it shut. Strange…because shes been super easy going. you think she non responded just cuz she feels slutty? i was just gonna be radio silent but maybe i oughta hit her up. lol fuckin women
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‘you think she non responded just cuz she feels slutty? i was just gonna be radio silent but maybe i oughta hit her up. lol fuckin women’
Ya prolly lol. Dude, the radio silence thing….idk. If you want a girl, figure out how to get her…try to, and if you can’t….you failed, move on…but at least you tried. If you like her, go for it. If you don’t like her that much, then ya, radio silence.
Why not start from square 1….send a DHV txt, have fun, shoot the shit, get that informal meetup, and see what’s up? If you decide to…let us know how it turns out!
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“I took it has her indirectly trying to see if i would be willing to see her w/out the sex (never have).”
This is what’s happening.
“feed her hamster of not being a cum dumpster at least a little — she is a person….”
This is why it’s happening.
“I think it’s the fact that terseness/aloof only maintains value…but you do it long enough, and they start to wonder ‘wait, why am I here again?’ So then you demonstrate all of those traits again just as a reminder. Instead of alpha alpha beta —> awesome/ aloof/ awesome.”
This is how to fix it.
Basic cat-string theory. You’re the string too far out of reach so the cat gives up.
You have too much of this shit clouding your head:
“I dunno im just reluctant to be all “aw come over and ill take care of you” blah dee blah…i dont trust her or women in general”
You’re dying to hit the radio silence button and she can tell you’re one and a half feet out the door. She has feelings and wants to know she’s more than a fuck hole, except that she isn’t, because you have too much baggage and you’re too worried about your ego and sounding alpha and aloof instead of actually liking the girls you’re with.
This is essentially a long-term version of Buyer’s Remorse, where you’ve made her feel like you think she’s slutty (whether you actually think that or not, she FEELS like you do) by only wanting to bang and by being aloof, so she wants to do non-sex related things to see if she’s just another cum dumpster to you.
If you want her, you don’t have to go to her house. Just do something non sex-related, like take her out on a date somewhere or cook dinner for her or even watch movies together at your place, and just don’t shoot for sex. Even disqualify it with something like “no babe I’m too sore from working out to fool around, I just want to watch some movies. Don’t be mad that I don’t put out tonight, I can barely move lol”. She’ll either escalate things and make it obvious she wants sex toward the end of the night when she realizes you’re not making a move, or she’ll go home and not feel like you just like her for the sex and the next time you hang you’ll likely bang.
This is a completely salvageable situation.
Of course having gotten INTO this situation means that you’ve already fucked up because you’ve just triggered the Ultimatum Countdown, where you have X amount of time/bangs left before she gives you the “either we’re BF/GF or I can’t do this anymore, I like you too much and it hurts too bad” Ultimatum where you’ll have to either be her BF or let her go (you can still salvage things from here, but then you start getting into some “dark game” psyche warfare that runs the risk of fucking her up long-term for relationships).
You need to look into avoiding Buyer’s Remorse and disarming LMR to avoid this situation for longer. Also remember that if you give absolutely no beta provider hints at all, she won’t categorize you as possible BF material and you can avoid this (tho that comes with its own set of problems)…but that said, also remember that it depends on the girl’s personality type. The one you’ve got sounds like a generic Good Girl type who wants to have sex within a BF/GF relationship with you VS a casual bang.
Also your txt game is pretty weak/uncalibrated but you got blindsided and it sounds like this hasn’t happened to you before so I won’t give you too much shit.
For reference I would’ve turned it around at either of these two points:
“And do what?”
This is girl-code for “you just want sex don’t you? :(” This is the optimal time to handle this if you end up in this situ. This tells me she needs to do something that isn’t sex-related so I would drop something like:
“I want to go see Movie. Come with me.”
or “I’m cooking us dinner.” (you can just order a pizza lol)
or “lets go for a walk, there’s an awesome place I want to show you.”
I would skip bars/drinking (like “let’s go out for a drink” because that = sex).
And calibrating to her personality type, I would probably also know to throw in a sex disqualifier like “no sex tonight, I’m exhausted. I just want to hang out, haven’t seen you in a while.” or something that’s semi-ambiguous but hints that I might see her as more than a lay.
If I fucked up and didn’t clue in and ended up at the second point:
“I’m feeling sick”
I would do what Scray said and tell her I’m bringing her soup (note I wouldn’t ask if she wants me to, I would tell her that’s what’s happening). If I didn’t want to risk a run-in with her parents I would either have her sneak me in to watch movies and eat soup together (then wait for her to initiate banging while we cuddle and she’s surprised I’m not making a move). Or I’d be a romantic baws and leave the soup on her doorstep and txt her to go look outside and head home lol. Score a jillion “awwwe” points for that one.
Note that this is al beta gayness behavior, BUT also note that you’re only in this situ because you fucked up and let it get TO this situ…and the more down the fucked up path you let it get, the more beta you have to be to salvage it, and the more beta you have to be to salvage it the sooner you’re going to run into The Ultimatum which will generally end things.
So yes, YaReally’s a big homo telling you to bring her soup and not escalate, but note that the responses to her first signal (“and do what”) are more alpha. It’s just a matter of how fucked the situation is.
You’re dying to do radio silence because you don’t know how to recover and you can tell that the ways TO recover will involve being beta/lame and your ego has an Identity built around not acting beta and basically you would have to shit on your Identity…plus the general baggage toward women you’ve built up.
I’m not saying any of that is necessarily a bad thing. I’m just telling you 3 + 1 = 4 so if you have 3 and want to get 4, you need to add 1. If you don’t want 4, that’s alright too…but understand that the formula is completely solvable, as long as adding that 1 in there is something you’re willing to do.
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ppreciate it. First thing thats most relavant here is that
1.) she didnt reply three days later when i texted her after this exchange
2.) last night i called her up. She answered quickly, and said she was mini golfing w family, she started blabbing to someone else and then returned and said can i call you back. which she didnt. lol retarded biznatch. so if you still maintain that this be salvagable…ok.
ya for sure im willing to get the formula right haha thats why i write here. I agree its uncalibrated, and yes i agree bout the ego thing and i accept that im at that stage in my game. ALways improving. I will take your word on most things youve written, however i have to tell you this girl is not a chaste good girl. Shes had 10+ partners and shes 19. So initially when we started banging it out, i completely catagorized her as Non LTR. Plus she had a bf, who she ultimately dumped to hook up w me. Soo after she dumped him i started seeing these hints and signs of wanting more….and macho ego aside.. it was pretty flattering/endearing. Im a man what can i say…shed write me that she was thinkin bout me…and one time she was drunk but she like profusely apologized that she couldnt hang because she was w her sisters who she never sees…”Please dont be upset!”. Lol cmon…thats hard not to like. Shes so young and the age difference is such that i feel mega alpha to her lol. So while i agree with what you’re saying about ego-protection, i feel like there may be merit in my hesitancy since she is def kind of a slut.
It sounds contradictory and i guess it is, since im writing bout how to handle it. I guess it comes down to what i want….and what i want(like any other guy) is a fuckin steady sexual outlet i can rely on and a reasonably low amount of drama. Would be nice to cruise the summer with a main girl, and this situation aside…id have no problems letting her be the main. Like i posted above somewhere, this is (as we all know) just female prerogative creating this situation…nothing legit changed on my end…not even my game…to my detriment, at the moment. So yes of course im willing to calibrate, but my distrust sort of toys w my judgement.
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If she’s had 10 partners at 19 then her BF might’ve called her a slut etc when she dumped him and/or she had some life changing girl-talk with her friend or just came to her own conclusion that she doesn’t want to be viewed/used like a slut anymore.
This is pretty common too. It’s like a redemption thing, to see if she can get a guy to like her for something other than sex.
Usually this is where girls will start acting this way and go run off and force themselves to date a Nice Guy. If she does this, she’ll let you know (usually in the form of an Ultimatum threat like “well you don’t want to date me and he does so…”), so you can’t just assume it. I call this “boyfriending up” and wish her the best and go radio silent (not the same as going radio silent now when you aren’t sure what’s going on…this is a calculated move AFTER she tells me she’s trying a different guy). Not surprisingly, she dumps him for being boring and not making her gina tingle, sometimes even before they’ve had sex lol so I get a 2am drunk “hey” txt within a year (usually just a few months) and escalate that to sex.
So it’s possible she met a Nice Guy to date but I doubt it because she didn’t say that to you. If she DOES, wish her luck and go silent and you’ll probably hear from her again.
But if she doesn’t, then just assume its still on. But you waited for her to reply to basically “want to come be a slut I don’t respect and be used for sex?” Wtf is she going to reply to that lol. And then you called at an inopportune time and she had to hang with her family.
I would’ve txted/called her at night when you know she’s in her room alone in bed instead of the middle of the day where there’s interrupts. So keep that in mind for next time. I do most of my txting of new girls past 9pm on weeknights when they’re winding down for the night.
But now that you’ve dug a hole, txting her this weekend is tricky because she’s going to assume you’re just trying to line up a booty call for after the bar unless you voluntarily give up a Fri/Sat night at the bar to go do something date-like/boyfriendy with her where it’s not “I’m out drinking with my bros and need to get laid so I look cool, come get drunk so I can bang you and high-five them” lol
If you don’t eat to give up a Fri/Sat night, or if she has plans which at 19 there’s a good chance she does, I’d say just go radio silent from now till like, Monday. Then Monday night when she’s in bed, txt her and try to arrange hanging out the way I described before (do something gay and date-like for like Wednesday or Thursday, and disqualify yourself in advance from having sex that night (you might still end up having it, you’re just working around her ASD right now)).
She might be done with you, it might be too late, but if she’s answering your calls/txts at all, that’s still a green light to me. She wouldn’t pick her phone up when she’s out mini golfing if you were a smelly gross homeless person lol
So this is still salvageable to me…there are just a lot of dynamics at work and you’re in the Danger Zone that I try to avoid ending up in because of how complicated it can be to get out of it. But trust game logic…her ASD is being triggered right now, so you just need to disarm it.
Also fix your internal thought loops. Your default headspace is “has she rejected me yet? How about now? Is it over yet? I think I’m shot down. She must be over me. Of course she’s over me. This is hopeless, look, she didn’t even txt me back, that’s done, can I move on yet? It’s too damaging to my ego/identity to keep trying on a girl who isn’t jumping to suck my dick immediately, I can’t handle embarrassing myself by not instantly NEXT’ing a girl who isn’t 100% responsive”. It comes thru in your writing.
You want a headspace of “of COURSE she still loves me. Silly girl is just playing hard to get cause I messed up a bit. Why WOULDN’T she want me, that’s crazy. She can TRY to resist me but that’s futile on her end, it’s cute that she’d even try NOT to want me…I’m awesome, of course she still wants me. I’ll just crack this code and practice some new shit out and she’ll be chasing my cock all over again.”
Here’s a Julien video on persistence, especially describing getting an unresponsive girl on the phone…but DON’T use that on your girl, don’t txt her “such a slut” lol, you’ll sabotage this. Just listen to his mindset of how basically none of the rejection shit is relevant to him or phases him:
This one too, again look at his mentality not his actual words…”i suck at life. I take dildos up the ass. I’m going to kill myself.” “What??” “Hi, I’m Julien. :)” Zero fucks given on whether he sounds beta or not, he just knows all he needs is to get her paying attention and alone and it’s on. So don’t tell your girl you’re going to kill yourself lol, but take this mentality of “all I have to do is get her on the phone or to respond to my txts. Then all I have to do I get her to meet up for any reason. Then all I have to do is get her alone somehow. Then it’s on.”:
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couldnt hit reply on your second comment, but again thanks. perhaps ill hit her thru text with something youd have a hard time ignoring. Like “I lost a limb today”, or “I just got engaged”. Lol. But i dig it, ive just gotten tired of investing in things that dont pan out, its like a kick in the nuts each time you chase and get shit back. Did alot of that in 2011 an 2012 and really cut my teeth on that sorta flak. However im experienced enough not to get totally complacent and just expect my game to be bulletproof. So thanks for the check. I think my text game is ok, in this instance it sucked. But thats just it. My game is getting to the level (because im getting a bit older, and have some legit attractive stuff goin for me, more success in the past year) where im actually needing to learn how to be ATTAINABLE, and not make girls feel retarded for opening their window.
Its a nice problem to have nowadays, but its the result of having like zero options and zero confidence after a rough breakup of an LTR in late 2010. Meaning i pushed like fuck and suffered uncountable rejections to get savvy enough to get to this level. Feels like thats where my game is going lately, im like turning a corner into just being able to enjoy women for what they are. I still gotta iron out a few kinks, but the overt misogyny and just bitterness are a part of my game (and probly others) that can ultimately holds me back now.
The idea of harnessing full red pill awareness and structuring your approach so that youre not always paranoid and miserable…is what im interested in now. I hope this is where the manosphere is going…because the hyperfocus (as i do constantly) and paranoia gets exhausting. Its like you cant just relax and enjoy it. I suppose that comes with time. But ive been through the fuckin raging anger phase, bitter spiteful beta asshole stage. Ive got some legit asshole tendencies that irk some men, and ultimately attract women. Dunno if you can relate, but im lately noticing my red pill wariness , and ultimately red pill anger/frustration have been overkill. Like im overshooting the mark, and getting way too mired down in the details. I wana get to a place where i can comfortable navigate this shit and not have my brain inundated with seeing “the code”.
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Regarding your last paragraph. Trust that you’re not the only one. It’s like a pendulum that swung too far to the right. I think eventually our results, heavy burden on our minds and distancing others do will force us to calibrate towards the center.
It’s only natural. I think the fact that you’re cognizant of it and aware is the first step L. Sadist so don’t fret. You say you “woke up” around 2011 right? It’s only been 2 years man. Give it 5 to see if you’re better off than you were during those days you were losing sleep with knots in your stomach when your girlfriend left you.
The manosphere/red-pill def has some side-effects.
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As to your last paragraph – “because the hyperfocus (as i do constantly) and paranoia gets exhausting. Its like you cant just relax and enjoy it. I suppose that comes with time.””
You’re right, it does come with time.
Think of it this way – Lets say you’re learning to dance. On the first day you feel like shit, you have to memorize the steps and keep going over them in your head, so when the music comes on, you’re not dancing to the music, you’re dancing to “one-two-three-flip-one-two-three” etc. At the same time, you see other, more experienced folks around you just letting go and dancing to the music and emotion. Then you think maybe this shit is not for you. But you persist with it. After 4 months you’re still consciously counting the steps, you still cant relax and enjoy, but you persist. Eventually you come to a point where your body and neural networks are so used to the dance form that you’re not really thinking consciously, you go with the flow, you’re able to improvise … it becomes intuitive.
Banal as the example was, it serves to illuminate the path most guys who get good at game traverse.
Once you get good at game, it becomes intuitive. That is when you get to the place where “i can comfortable navigate this shit and not have my brain inundated with seeing “the code”.
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And once it becomes intuitive, once you really really get to the place where you’re no longer thinking mechanically, you tend to filter out the negative tendencies bit by bit. What you’re talking bout right now, the anger, overshooting the mark, the hyper awareness .. its also a phase.
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word yeah im alright, but jus being real. Like its not so much im overwhelmed with the red pill awareness at all. Ive actually always been pretty red pill…without knowing it. Im doin well game-wise Its more that once you REALLY have the game internalized, and how value works, its like you clearly see many things others dont. Ive found myself just getting too bogged down in it at times…rollo tomassi has a good article on this phenomenon…something about people wishing their blue pill existence back. WHile i wouldnt really want that back…yea the red pill has side effects.
btw the girl called me today, got something arranged for later in the week thanks to yareally for the rundown… always dig it.
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so as it is i dunno what the fuck happened. she blew me off a few days later so what can i do but go dark it doesnt seem wise to chase.
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ur probly right on the trojan horse thing. it didnt occur to me to plow thru her excuses…ideally i think i should have told her to literally “bring the movies” and come relax we dont gotta fuck etc etc. Lol. Shes so fucking awkward…i didnt really lead it right. I dunno im just reluctant to be all “aw come over and ill take care of you” blah dee blah…i dont trust her or women in general. didnt know whether to take it as an alpha test or sincere need of some beta reassurance shit..which explains my vague wishy washy action. I was like skirting the line between uncaring and caring.
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‘“aw come over and ill take care of you” blah dee blah…i dont trust her or women in general.’
Yaaaaaaa………well this mindset may lead to that approach you had. Terse/aloof rules for just maintaining value while she’s happy. When this shit happens, like I said….I think the right chord to strike is ‘ya remember me? I’m awesome, you dummy.’ It doesn’t even need to be stupid beta reassurance shit lol. Just take the time to be C&F and have fun with her and include her in your world.
‘I was like skirting the line between uncaring and caring.’
Parent to child is the right mindset model for this dynamic, I believe. Like, you care deeply about the child. At the same time, if a child — even your own — tells you that the sky is green….lol who gives a shit, it’s a child. But you can’t just tell a child ‘well no, you’re wrong you fucking idiot.’
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[…] Comment Of The Week: When It “Does Count” […]
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I am a Medical Doctor so I claim the right to describe a different set of metrics that by rights should apply to the Professional classes.For example, how many of the inevitable sexual call-room encounters “count”? Most of them I would say: unless neither of you came. Do not laugh. Hospitals are not like middle-schools. How about Parking Garage blow-jobs? All of them, actually. Because they all swallowed. Think about it. Is Nursey going to go home and give her loving hubby a Rum-flavored kiss?
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“Jerry, just remember, it’s not a lie if you believe it.” — George Costanza
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Now here’s the crux of the matter, what percentage are banging like jack rabbits and what percentage are sitting by the sideline.
What’s the emailed version of the 80/20 rule?
From my casual observations, 90% are banging and 10% are too timid to enter the fray.
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I am just going to leave this here.
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I used this to push for the bang when the girl is giving resistance or after if she’s feeling weird about what we just did.
If we start talking about sex and I tell her stuff like “I want you to be happy with your boyfriend. This didn’t really count. You go with him, and we’ll always have our own thing.”
Or stuff along the lines of “Wow, I’m glad you’re going out with that guy, you’ve gotten a lot better in bed”
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What if she made out with 100 guys? I mean, it’s not sex, but it’s definitely a red flag?
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She’s a cock tease.
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depends on how you define ‘made out’ and the time interval in which you ‘made out’ with those 100 guys.
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Baumeister’s ideas gaining implicit acceptance in the media: http://www.economist.com/blogs/freeexchange/2013/07/chinas-marriage-market
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OT: Heartiste take a look: http://yourlivingcity.com/lifestyle/dating-city-tiggerlike-qualities-young/#.UeOifW3cCBM … “hamster on how young men pining for older women in Sweden” … yeah sure!
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hooked up with this girl from philly whilst in tokyo (of all places) two weeks ago. anyway, she played the “ï am inexperienced and shy” game for some time but inevitably revealed three massive slut-tells: tongue-piercing, hip/groin tattoo, brazilian. just never listen to them.
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I need some text game help, not sure if I did this right or wrong. I’ve known this chick about a year, but she was not great looking when I met her. She had bad skin and was built like a surfboard, but over the course of a year her tits+ass have filled out, skin has cleared up, and she’s improved her style/fashion. We’ve flirted a bit over the year, but were never close. Here’s how the exchange went after a bunch of small talk. She’s Chinese and 22, I’m 24, we’re both in graduate school.
Me: When I get back to (our town) we’re going to throw a big party before the semester starts. You’re going to come
Her: Awesome!! I’ll definitely be there, can’t wait.
Me: and dress sexy
Me: wear one of your tight dresses+heels
Her: “Surprised emoticon”
Her: I’ll only dress sexy if you do.
Me: I’m actually showing up naked
Her: Deal!!
I’m not really sure if telling a girl to wear a sexy outfit off as desperate or if it serves as a flirtatious compliance test that clearly communicates ones intent. I’m also not sure if my “I’m showing up naked” line was good. Nothing seems cringeworthy via jumbotron test.
Thanks, all.
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Lol you’re kind of at a point where she likes you a good deal….so you can be less worried about this stuff. All you really needed was a statement of intent…which is why the surprised emote followed by the flirting. I mean, I would have dressed up the naked line: Of course — coming naked duh 🙂
But that really doesn’t matter IMO
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[…] Comment Of The Week: When It “Does Count” | Chateau Heartiste […]
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If only lasted a minute “It doesn’t count” I’ve seen so many females completely disregard sex because they believe it didn’t count in their minds..
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Har… Reminds me of an incident with a girl, we were recounting/tallying bits of our sexual histories and she listed off her past boyfriends. (Most of whom I knew, since we were from overlapping social circles.) I wasn’t on the list … despite that were both naked, lying on my bed, and had just fucked, and not for the first time. I pointed this out and she was embarrassed. I was just amused, as she was the most attractive girl I’d ever banged.
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I read the referenced “Why GSS…” post. I can attest women in the religious red state camp aren’t hoisting the Team Prude flag. I live in West Michigan where there’s a church on every corner (has to be one of the more conservative areas in the entire country). I also come from that background (5 yrs ago when I was married I was heavily involved in church) and still maintain close friendships with church-goers.
The dating/courtship/hookup stage of the game closely resembles your observations from the east coast and other areas. While the relationships are more conservative (younger marriages, women take a new last name, less career chics, more stay-at-home moms, chics wanting less ambiguous more stable relationships), the period in-between relationships sounds pretty close to your east coast escapades. Sure, there are good-girl prudes, but (1) I’m not sure there are any more than in other parts of the country, and (2) they follow the general rule of being hot chics who can afford to have fewer but longer-term relationships (ie not because they’re prudes as much as they have high SMV).
Also, I’m guessing divorce rates are lower here, though not by much.
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Oh, and yeah, these rules above seem about right
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Kind of off topic, but site relevant: Guitars, that’s exactly how they work.
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So how is it that guys here actually believe that prettier (naturally or media) women are less promiscuous as a group? This has not been my observation at all. In my observation, the saying is true that there is no such thing as a single girl…
Every pretty girl I know who isn’t a virgin or extremely church/temple/ile under a protected head, is shagging someone. If it’s not you this week, it’s someone else.
Maybe it’s just that pretty girls get away with lower levels and therefore have more “doesn’t count” experiences than less pretty girls who have to put out at higher levels and/or appreciate their experiences more.
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“So how is it that guys here actually believe that prettier (naturally or media) women are less promiscuous as a group?”
That’s because they are less promiscuous. Beautiful don’t have to put out for cheap easy sex with every alpha they come across because they actually have legitimate value unlike their hamster fueled plainer sisters. These women actually are capable of the male equivalent of getting casual sex, they can get commitment from high value men., the real true goal of most chicks. Hence they don’t have to fuck around with high number of men since they get an alpha to have a relationship with them.
Maybe what you’re thinking of are above average women with just enough looks to get suckered into being broken free whores. Good enough for an alpha fling but not a ring. These are ones that causing the damage. It’s not the homely ones and the down right beautiful ones.
Since most young women that aren’t obese are good looking without having to have superior features and genetics they get to play the Game of Alphas if they so choose to do so. Then the pump and dump and then the wall, then the marrying the replusive beta, etc, etc. These are the harpies that are emotionally shot and fucking things up however they are also the supply of loose pussy, so a bit of double edged sword.
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Maybe this is true where you live, or maybe people are sheltering you from the reality, but I want you to consider something.
Think back to the last time you were in a club. How many women who were above average in looks left the club alone? How many did you see in the club after say, 2 hours of opening?
Did you notice that the longer you were there, the thinner the concentration of women became, with only those who came with bros or boyfriends left about an hour from closing?
I’ve noticed this. The only hot or even middling chicks left in a place around closing are those dating staff.
I don’t think all those girls leave to play chess. I also notice similar patterns in other social events with many single people attending…even festivals and pow wows.
Women are shagging much more than they say. Much, much more.
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I don’t care what anyone says, the biggest sluts/easiest bangs are usually 5’s.
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Your assertion aligns with CH theory: The biggest sluts will be those women who are attractive enough to inspire in men at least a minimal desire to fuck for a night, but not so attractive that the women can hold out for a long time until some kind of commitment is extracted from the men they like. So, as CH theory goes, the biggest sluts will be in the 5-7 range. Below 5, the women are too ugly to effectively pursue a slut strategy because higher value men won’t be sufficiently attracted to them. Above 7, the women will be hot enough to successfully pursue an anti-slut strategy that relies on boosting the value of their product by its scarcity (i.e., chastity).
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I’m sorry guys, but this is not what I’m seeing.
As some of you know, I’ve been a spiritual counselor for some time. People tell me things they don’t tell their therapist. Most women I know who are regarded as 7+ have had penetrative sex with 50 or more men by the time they are 25, and in excess of 100 by the age of 30 if they’re still single. Age does for beautiful women what simple less beauty does for younger women. The older, the sluttier regardless of their place on the raw scale.
More than one that I know personally has shagged over 300. They are in their early 30’s, and neither is a prostitute. It’s just a different guy every week, and sometimes two or three.
I don’t trust what women self report because I’ve just seen too much. I think it’s just that prettier women are reflecting the wishful thinking of the people who survey them.
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And it would be fair to say that perhaps my perception is skewed because of my own situation. However, I believe that the having a harem of thralls just makes it easier for women to tell me the truth. They don’t understand that I do what I do out of necessity, and not because this is my idea of happily ever after, and feel free to relax and be honest.
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This is true.
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“So how is it that guys here actually believe that prettier (naturally or media) women are less promiscuous as a group?”
They’re fucking guys, but they tend to fuck the same guys over and over. ie – she’s banging her ex or a casual FB she’s had for a while.
The hottest girls tend to be the most disappointed by guys, so they don’t WANT to suck random possible-losers’ dicks every weekend. Their Hypergamy makes them crave the top guys, so the 50 dudes a night that approach them and come off lame as shit get no poon while she txts her ex to hook up after the bar, because for him to BE her ex means that at some point he was high enough value to get her…so while she wants better/new, she can’t trade down only up, and will fuck him until she meets someone higher value.
Of course the wannabe-alpha at the bar stumbling over his words isn’t going to treat her as insignificant as her ex who dumped her is, so naturally she ends up going back to her ex or whoever more than she’d like.
The funny/sad part is that every time she fucks that ex, she regrets it…but she needs sex and she doesn’t have a better option because you (the metaphorical guy reading this) didn’t approach her at the bar with some solid game and attract her. 🙂
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Wise words.
In my experience, so much of gaming hot girls is simply just staying calm. If one has an easeness to them as they talk then most often she will recognize this as high value because the guy seems “used to talking to girls who look like me.” Although at this point there is a game to be played, a lot of the work has been done because an “impression” has been made coupled with an intrigue which now means she is much more willing to listen to what I have to say.
I’m certainly not batting .1000 but I land girls like this often enough, and to people who buy into society’s value system look at me and the girl and it’s like their circuits are completely fried — the only thing they can rationalize is that I must be rich.
All of this done in jeans, t shirt, chucks, knock off designer shades that i bought for $15 on the street as she’s sitting there wearing probably the most expensive shit money can buy and sitting anywhere from my height to 4-5 inches taller. If society ever found out about this, it would wag it’s finger at me and say “NO NO NO! She is NOT for somebody like YOU! SHE is for the man who can take care of her! That is obviously not YOU lol why would you even think you could get a girl like her?!?”
Easier said than done. Which is why, for a long time and even now, I force myself into breaking the ice even when I feel I’d rather yank my teeth out than go over to the girl. Over time and many reps (especially during the day), my brain has learned not to freak out in the face of a hot face because I’ve literally forced myself into this situation over 1,000 times. I have far enough experience to know that a) my desires and action reign supreme and b) almost everything society says about women and dating comes from a lack for firsthand knowledge.
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From what I’ve observed about women, who without social constraints, shag based on hormonal triggers and whims, while you’re being calm, if it’s a weekend and she’s ovulating, she is shagging someone else.
She may like you more if you’re cool, but she is thinking of you while someone else is balls deep.
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OT: My main girl is getting an abortion today. Not sure how to handle the whole support/aftermath aspect of this. I know there are those here who find abortion appalling, but I honestly cannot not properly support a child right now and I think it would be the greater of two evils to bring it into this world without a fair shake.
I would understand if she wanted to move on from me after this, but that is not the direction she’s taking.
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what kind of girl would do that? any girl who would kill her own child is scum.
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She did because I told her to, not because she wanted to. If anything, I’m the scummy one.
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No, please, don’t do that!!!!!!! PLEASE don’t kill your child! If you don’t have enough money to support your baby, me and Heartiste can help you! PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE just don’t kill him!!! If he is still alive, please change your mind! Your girlfriend loves you and if she doesn’t want to kill the baby, please don’t force her into doing it!!!! You will be a good father! If you are poor right now, me and CH will help you until you get a job, just please don’t kill your child!!!!!!
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I feel the same way you do, Maya 😦 I’m so sad thinking about that baby who is going to die today 😥
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zombie shane will certainly disagree with this idea (assuming you are white). regardless, your relationship with her will never be the same. she’s either going to hate you or she’s going to latch onto you with a renewed vigor that you’ve never seen previously. eventually, you’ll break up. probably best to cut bait at this point. best of luck.
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I’ve seen the latch on part a few times with friends – going into an abortion, she has the incorrect idea promoted by feminists and media that she’s getting “un-pregnant.” Afterwards, she’ll probably feel some measure of guilt. She may try to get you to feel guilt and a moral debt to her. Somehow they can convince themselves that they can have a “replacement baby” with you in the future that will absolve her of the guilt. Actually saw a few buddies stay in relationships and get married due to this sort of deal.
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a woman who has previously killed a child would never make a good mother in future, period.
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yeah, that’s exactly what i’m talking about. regardless of what women are told by the MSM, abortion is vile and ugly. after a woman has an abortion, the political/social aspect fades quickly away and she’s left with regret. and, the regret usually takes one of two (polar opposite) forms: 1) regret that she let herself get pregnant by an unworthy male; 2) regret that she killed her baby with a worthy male. either way, she feels a lot of feels, man. and she’ll either take those feels out on you or use them to build her connection to you. the reality is that if you loved this chick and wanted to “be” with her, you would tell her to have that baby. but, you don’t. so why prolong the inevitable? there is nothing but heartache in this for you both.
don’t misunderstand, while i am “pro-choice,” i really hate the way the whole debate has been framed. let’s be intellectually honest about what we’re doing: sanctioning killing of unwanted lives. maybe i sound callous, but i’m fine with that (necessary social evil). i just hate that we try to “sugar-coat” what it is by calling it some “medical procedure.”
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Welcome, if not refreshing, honesty.
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I hope you have thought this through! I will never forget a string of drunken anguished emails I got from a virtual friend after his ex aborted their baby. Things I doubt he ever told any real life friend. He was out at a party, back in the usual routine of gaming, beside himself that the baby was gone.
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I’m not really a prolife person but nature and karma are a bit related. I’ve read of infertility or even cancer down the line.
If you and your girl are both white, this is playing directly into the Cathedral’s population control measures.
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Cast the slut aside. Only sluts get abortions. No woman who would kill your own child is worthy of being a keeper.
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Fuck you. It wasn’t her decision, she is just obeying the man she loves.
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Maya, I feel the same way you do. I am sad about the murder of this child. But no woman who is a true woman would go through with that, regardless. A woman’s instinct is to nurture her child. And that instinct comes before obeying a man.
There was a story about a Roman mother whose husband was in the army. He sent her a letter telling her to keep the child if it was a boy, and to kill it if it were a girl. It was a girl. Since the husband was gone on campaigns for long stretches of time, she dressed the daughter like a boy for 12 years, the husband none the wiser. When the girl turned 12, she married her off to some old man, and told her husband that the son had run away.
That’s the lengths a woman will go to in order to protect her child, regardless of what the father wishes.
No woman who is a true woman can murder her child in cold calculation. Hence why this woman is less than a woman, and is worthy of nothing but hatred and shame. Cryo didn’t hold a gun to her head while she was getting her infant vacuumed out of her and torn to shreds. She went willingly.
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But no woman who is a true woman would go through with that, regardless. A woman’s instinct is to nurture her child. And that instinct comes before obeying a man.
Agreed
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You (and rotted feminist ideology) overestimate the capacity of a woman’s volition, particularly a 20-year-old girl’s. The real chain of culpability is clear: it was first a failure of her father, and now it is a failure of the father of her child. At no point should anyone ever rely on the random vicissitudes of female “decision” making.
No, Cryo didn’t hold a gun to her head. He held something much more powerful, her psyche, in his hands.
Matt
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Though I agree with you in most things, I must disagree with you here Matthew. I am a woman, and I believe that we can be strong enough (the real strength of a Titus 2 woman, not the false strength that the moderns consider female strength) to love and nurture her child despite its father wishing for its death.
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I’m pregnant with my second by the way and reading all this has just made me feel so sickened, disgusted, and emotional.
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Anonymous, if you have a strong man in your life who provides the foundation for your strongly felt beliefs, then you’re just muddying the waters posting in this context.
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I actually agree with everything you said. Maybe I was just writing something without thinking much and I was focusing too much on his desperate girlfriend who was probably afraid that she will lose him, she didn’t know what to do etc. I don’t know …
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No, the blame lies with me. The girl was devastated and unwilling. But she is devoted to me and loves me madly. She does what I tell her to, period.
Matt is right in this respect. I held this girl’s psyche in my hands and selfishly used the power to alleviate my responsibility.
I know I’m going to be a maligned presence on these boards now, but I felt I had to defend the girl’s spirit in some way.
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YOu are a piece of garbage. I pity you for killing your kid, who would have brought you more joy than you can imagine.
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Regardless of whether that’s true or no, get rid of her. She’s soulless, whether from your influence or not. No woman with a heart could murder her own offspring. Damaged goods x 10000. You don’t want a woman who has killed her child to end up eventually being the mother of a live future child, whether accidentally or on purpose, because such a woman has no maternal instinct and would make a horrible mother.
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cryo,
There is a way back. You know what to do.
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The words of both “Us” and “Anonymous” are diabolical. Put them behind you. You aren’t garbage, not until you’re a corpse burning on the great tire fire of Gehenna. Your woman isn’t soulless yet. Fix it, man.
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“There is a way back. You know what to do.”
Thanks man, I appreciate it.
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Maya (!?!?) FTW.
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…and if you’re obeying your man to the point of KILLING YOUR CHILD, then there is something seriously wrong with you. Not her decision? What, is he dragging her by the hand to the clinic and paying the doctors to strap her down against her will? Fucked up situation, but she still has final say in all this…
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You are not going nearly far enough. A woman has a diminished capacity of will. This is why until our insane era we barred them from politics and nearly all decisions about themselves.
And she isn’t just a woman, she is nearly a child too — who has been deliberately retarded to the point of being unable to consider this the “KILLING [of her] CHILD.” It is merely a procedure, and she has to do none of the bloodletting herself, just merely nod consent and let the gravity of our pro-death culture do the hard work for her.
Yours is a peculiarly feminist understanding of the “final say in all this.” A proper man can convince a woman to do anything whatever. It was men who convinced women that they had volition in the first place. It was men who voluntarily established the 19th Amendment; there was no revolution or forceful seizure of that “right.” Behold the perpetual disaster of that error.
Matt
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Oh, I get that this guy could have manipulated her into it – sadly, that’s all too common these days, with abortion being an easily available way out.
I’d actually agree that most women are not suited for that “anything whenever” mentality forced on them by feminism. There are always going to be exceptional woman (and I use that in a non-prejudicial, literal sense) who are capable of complete and full masculine-type autonomy, but most aren’t. The biggest failure of feminism was that those bitter second-wave leaders couldn’t recognize this in their fellow females, and sought to impose their ideal world on all of us. I’ll admit, I tend towards that myself sometimes, and it’s not fair, and I know that (thanks for calling me on it. I just got out of the military, where women are expected to be like men in this regard, and it’s very easy to forget it’s not the way things actually work)
But it wasn’t just the direct intervention of a man that used to keep women on track, but morality. Personal morality, overwhelmingly of a religious nature. And killing your child should be a profoundly moral issue, one that should override your loyalty to a man who hasn’t even made a commitment to you. (Maybe he has, but it doesn’t sound here like they’re married)
Maybe even that’s expecting too much out of this poor girl; the cultural narrative tells us a baby isn’t a baby until we say it is, and that children ruin our lives, and a lot of women don’t have the tools to visualize themselves as mothers, or abortion as murder. And obviously, none of us know the circumstances. I just think it’s sad that things have degraded so far that this girl wasn’t able to tell her boyfriend that what he wanted was going to let evil into their lives, and that he likely wouldn’t have listened if she had.
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Cynthia. Thank you for your service.
This guy was on here 3 weeks ago bragging about how he’d knocked this chick up and he could make her do anything. He posted a text exchange in which she asked him if he’d marry her, and because he’s such an ALPHA! And he has so much HAND! He told her he wouldn’t.
And I thought, there’s an abortion.
And now there has been one.
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@RappaccinisDaughter
Ugh. Seriously? That’s just despicable. If men don’t want us using sex to manipulate them, they shouldn’t use love to manipulate us. I do feel sorry for the young lady here – my mom has a friend who aborted a baby at her then-boyfriend’s behest, and even in her late fifties, she’s never really recovered from it.
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Cynthia: “at her then-boyfriend’s behest”
Would she have jumped off a cliff if all of her then-boyfriends were doing it? As the other Matthew has persuasively claimed, y’all are systematically divesting your sex of responsibility. Why should any of us trust any of you on any matter at all in any context whatsoever if you’re willing to kill babies because your latest dick told you to?
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@Matthew
I was thinking about this in the car today. There are basically two ways one can take this.
First, that Matthew King is correct and women have a “diminished capacity of will.” In this case, any time a decision must be reached, she’s going to defer to the man’s opinion. This divests women of ultimate responsibility in their lives, rendering this woman, therefore, largely innocent of the act she committed on her unborn. However, this viewpoint also means that any time a man persuades a woman to have sex with him, he is overriding her better judgement and raping her – or, game is rape and the feminists are correct that a drunk woman has no responsibility for her actions.
Or, second, you are correct (and I was correct in my original point), and a woman has complete autonomy in her decisions, and the blame for the termination of this life lies squarely on the shoulders of this twenty year old female. Here, the manosphere is correct, and the woman bears full responsibility for her actions, rape is negligible (attributable only to cases of outright abuse and physical coercion), and women are not influenced in their decisions by men in any meaningful way.
I’m not letting anybody out of anything – neither person in this case should have behaved the way they did. However, we have to draw a line somewhere, don’t we? A twenty-year-old girl can be manipulated by a man into almost anything; I was that age once, I understand how that feels. But at the same time, that girl has been told her entire life “her body, her choice” and she should be aware that the decision to abort rests squarely with her. I suspect most women fall into some kind of continuum here, but it would ale me more than a little text box to fully figure that one out. I agree that she did the wrong thing. Why and how, who the fuck knows?
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Cynthia, I’m actually on the King’s side with this; was making a broad rhetorical point for the audience.
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@Matthew
Ah, okay. I don’t disagree; any woman who kills a baby because her dickhead boyfriend tells her to doesn’t have the right to ever claim that she’s “strong and independent”. The two things cannot exist side by side, but unfortunately, I think most women want the advantageous aspects of both without any of the negatives.
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Are you sure you’ve thought this through? I will never forget a string of drunken, anguished emails from a virtual friend after his ex aborted their baby. He was back out partying, go guying, and just beside himself that the baby was gone.
In many people’s quest to find the perfect person, they often expect that person to be perfectly formed when they meet them (which is rarely the case). I can see both sides of this issue and I have generally followed the Wilde maxim that “all influence is immoral.” So please just think about what you are doing.
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A lot of that is going to depend on you and how you are handling this whole thing. And you’re not going to know until it’s been over for a while.
At a minimum, you should make sure she has a ride home (they usually use anesthesia, which will make her groggy and unable to drive). And you should help with paying as much as you can.
If you do decide to stay together, double up on the birth control. There seems to be some sort of weird “rebound” effect after abortion/miscarriage that includes heightened fertility in the weeks after the termination.
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How many have you had?
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None. To the very best of my knowledge, I have never been pregnant.
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If I was your baby, I’d rather be poor than dead.
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Then why would you advise it in the first place?
Bad times, brother, bad times. And you were a rising star among so many omega cynics here.
Wait, you’re not the dude with that very cute 20-year-old you linked pictures to, are you?
The Wrath of Shane will soon follow.
Nonsense. You are not a victim to circumstance. You take what’s given you, in all its advantage or disadvantage, and you make a world of it. Men do not react like pinballs. They build the pinball machine.
When you do become a man, this day will sicken you till your death. You will be absent a young alpha male who looks up to you, and who conquers in your name. You will be robbed of a beautiful woman, who was formed in your own image. You killed her.
And you are advising a young girl who trusts you completely to mutilate herself against her own inclinations.
Go stop this madness. Give yourself more time. Let’s walk through it.
Matt
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You have lots of wisdom, Matt.
I’ll add, babies cost next to nothing for the first year. You don’t need a crib. Babies have slept in their mother’s beds with them for millennia. They don’t even eat anything besides breast milk for the first 6-9 months, and tiny scraps of food for a while thereafter. Babies are inexpensive. It’s a lie that they are costly. You can buy used baby clothing, it’s like $1-2 per outfit.
Your baby would likely cost you less than your internet bill. ~$30-40/month for diapers. That’s it. They don’t need material things. All they need is to be warmly embraced, loved, and nurtured at their mother’s breast.
By the time they’re eating a sizeable chunk of food and increasing your grocery bill, they’re two years old. Two years will have gone by. Two years is enough time to pull yourself together financially.
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Matt, I know you are right. Unfortunately, I was not strong enough to go through with this pregnancy. I laid out the facts and the logistics and it didn’t add up.
It was not easy and I am not proud. I do feel sick already. But the deed is done and I don’t know what else I can do but go on with life.
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[A]nd there was none to help her,
The foe gloated over her,
Mocking at her downfall. …
Her uncleanness was in her skirts;
She took no thought of her doom;
Therefore her fall is terrible,
She has no comforter. …
The enemy has stretched out his hands
Over all her precious things;
Yea, she has seen the nations
Invade her sanctuary …
“[B]ecause of all my transgressions …
My groans are many
And my heart is faint.”
— Lamentations 1
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Our new Medeas are by Jason made.
Their murders man, the coward, authorized.
Their infants writhe in anguish, innocence betrayed.
The fathers that God gave them look aside.
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Wanted a whole sonnet, but I got choked up.
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The programmatic comment-catcher here is hilarious, as you’ll see when my next comment gets out of the hoosegow.
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”When you do become a man, this day will sicken you till your death.”
😥
Please, cryo, read this line one more time!!!!!!
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Oh no, I’m sorry, cryo for saying that. I don’t want you to feel bad for the rest of your life!
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You don’t want him “to feel bad”?
The day a woman gives the father of her child her complete trust, asking for the strength to do the right thing in a matter of life and death, is the day a boy might become a man. That day came and went for Cryo, and he will be lucky to have another one from a girl so eager.
I wish he would have talked about it sooner here. What little influence we have might have tipped the scales. So much damage done today, to child, to woman, to man. Maybe that’s why he didn’t talk about it here, where he knew we might convince him to do the hard thing.
Feel bad.
Matt
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I think you’re a great man, Matt.
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I want him to feel bad but not for the rest of his life.
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She is still eager to have a kid with me down the road.
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Any woman who aborts should be sterilized after the procedure. No woman who is able to go through with killing a child is capable of raising a live child properly.
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The Lord afflicted the child that Uriah’s wife bore to David, and he became sick. David therefore sought God on behalf of the child. And David fasted and went in and lay all night on the ground.
And David said to his servants, “Is the child dead?” They said, “He is dead.” Then David arose from the earth and washed and anointed himself and changed his clothes. And he went into the house of the Lord and worshiped.
Then David comforted his wife and went in to her and lay with her, and she bore a son.
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So what’s the divine lesson here? I ask sincerely, as someone who has always been fascinated with Christianity but never well-versed in it.
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Thou shalt not kill.
Never been fascinated with Christianity, and I’m not well versed in it either, but I promise you that’s the divine lesson of this story.
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In Samuel 2, the first divine lesson, as communicated to David via Nathan, is “You have fucked up”.
The second divine lesson, as communicated by David to Bathsheba, is “Let’s do this right.”
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Arggh. 2 Samuel, not Samuel 2.
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SPOILER: In Philip Jose Farmer’s Riverworld series, it turns out that the reason there are no children among the resurrectees is because the Riverworld Engineers raised all the dead infants and children first, on a gentle and nurturing world with nursemaids a-plenty. Those who died after the age of accountability get to play the rough games of the Riverworld.
I often think about, as N. T. Wright calls it, the life-after-life-after-death. These hapless infants, mother-murdered babes, how shall the Valfather flesh them in the new Earth? I take heart in imagining the faithful matrons of this world, resurrected with vigor in the next, raising a vast kindergarten of now-wanted children.
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This was a very early-term abortion. I mean only a few weeks in. If it was later I don’t think she would have gone through with it.
So where do I stand on this? I did a bad thing. I’m glad that I was able to take action and get this bad thing done early. But I wouldn’t do it again, and she sure as hell wouldn’t either.
I made a stupid mistake, impregnated a young girl, and decided that I wasn’t equipped to raise a child properly. Here’s to being more cautious in the future.
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I was 20 years old and poor when I got pregnant with my first. We had the wedding when I was 4 months pregnant. We bought used clothes and my daughter slept in the bed with me and I nourished her with breast milk. We are still not in the best of financial circumstances but we are gradually working our way up. Neither of us even found it possible to entertain the thought of killing her. I wouldn’t trade her for all the money in the world. Reading about all of this is making me so sad. I can’t read this blog anymore. It’s callous and cruel and it makes me emotional. I can’t believe someone would actually kill their own child just to save money.
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Stop rationalizing it cryo, you’re a sicko who killed your own child just to save money.
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Agreed. There is never a “perfect” time to have a child – sex is, regardless of how much our society wants to pretend otherwise, primarily intended for the creation of life.
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You might enjoy Vernard Eller’s book, The Sex Manual for Puritans:
http://www.hccentral.com/eller13/part6.html
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I’m not saying that I only see sex as valid if a baby is created. Sex is fun (or so I’ve heard). It can be about fun. It can also be about power, domination, surrender, control, violence, love, punishment, politics, emotional connection, and so on. Doesn’t make an orgasm any less valid.
But biologically speaking, one possible outcome of it is pregnancy. The Pill is a technologic advancement which allows us to pretend otherwise, as is the condom and surgical abortion techniques, but even those are sometimes fallible. Sex is an activity that always carries the risk of conception, even when both parties are using birth control properly. Telling people that pregnancy is a choice creates an attitude that it’s acceptable to terminate an undesired pregnancy. Viewing pregnancy as “optional” rather than “eventual” is why we’ve had 54 million abortions since Roe v Wade. All I was saying.
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I like you, but you seem a bit humorless. Eller cracks me up constantly.
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@Matthew
I’ll have to check him out sometime. And yeah, after the year I’ve had, anyone would be a bit humorless.
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In one of his books, Eller argues that the “disciple whom Jesus loved”, the author of the Gospel, was Lazarus. Winning.
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Ignore the negative comments.
Years ago, when my GF got pregnant, I was surprised, since I was taking precautions. Turns out, the guy she was screwing behind my back wasn’t taking precautions.
Never impute any high ethical behavior to a woman.
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Don’t kill your baby… wait until he or she is a teenager, and then deserves it.
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I am crestfallen to read this.
Partyboys take heed of the replies in this thread.
There is never an ideal time to have a child. You can’t plan it like a picnic or vacation.
With a child comes unknowable joy and bracing responsibility. Your child will know you as his origin, his lode star, his teacher, his protector, his father. All things you were born to be as a man.
Kids are easy, because here is no question of priority once you have them. Protect them, feed them, clothe them and teach them. They don’t care if your car is nice, they don’t care if their clothes are expensive, they don’t care if they live a shabby studio apartment. They care that their father and mother love them.
Handling the woman is the tough part, a fact to which this site attests.
It is well past time to focus on the greater part of the equation, gentlemen.
Have no truck with a woman who could not make a good mother and wife. She doesn’t have to be perfect. You will have time to instruct and guide her, to make her your own.
You were handed an opportunity to create your own legion of worthy progeny, to make the world a better place by geometric progression.
You were ready cryo. You have chosen poorly.
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Forgot to add if she is in love it doesn’t count
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comment of the year, in a Facebook community (Elas perguntam, eles respondem >> “girls ask, guys answer”)
Girl: “Why do guys still watch p/orn and mas/turb/ate while in a relationship with lots of se/x?”
Guy: “Training is training, real game is real game”
Sorry but it looses all the poetry in the translation
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@Yareally
Guess I have a Day 2 tonight. Don’t have social proof like anywhere yet really besides the club we met at lol so I dunno, hope it goes well. Heading out to a bar that I’ve only stepped in once. My text game’s been a mixed bag which is why I wouldn’t be surprised if she flaked or not. Whatever. If she shows up, I know what to do. Problem is we live pretty far away from each other; she lives in the city, I don’t (I live MUCH closer than I used but people from the city still say it’s far, which boggles my mind). Bringing her back to my place would suck cuz I don’t have a car, so cabbing it to her place seems like a better idea.
Who knows how this date will turn out lol. This is gonna be funny lol..
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UPDATE: Ended up flaking (texted me like, the morning of). She suggested something for the weekend. Hasn’t responded to my text asking what she has planned. Basically my text game has been a mixed bag. Will update again soon…
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So true… Whenever I perform and have sex with women, it doesn’t count since she was on vacation and it was “only one night” or “only one weekend”… Women are masters at lying to themselves. That’s fine by me – I get to raw-dog them and they take it home with them to their hubby or boy-friend. That is fine in my book… 🙂
I was chatting with a friend not long ago, and he coined the term – “pussy-wrapping” for the women. And he’s right, I couldn’t tell you much about any of them afterward other than that they were “attractive pussy-wrapping”. And that is what it’s all about – if the wrapping isn’t attractive, I won’t go near it, but wrap it in something pretty and I’m all over it like white-on-rice…
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To be honest, I see none of the criterion to be outlandish and Beta. Other chicks are well inclined to go way overboard with what classifies as this or that.
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correction:
#2 should be ‘with the same guy’
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How many times does it count if they are knocked up , give birth, and have continuous incestuous relations with their bastard male child? Do they get at least one Mulligan on something like that? I mean why bring it up it that scenario only happened once ?
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On the abortion issue, as some of you know, on July 4, 2004, I found out that I was pregnant by a man who, days earlier, told me that we couldn’t have a serious relationship because I’m not Jewish. Thankfully, Nature made the decision to take that throwback’s substandard monotreme excretion to whatever afterlife lower animals have, so I didn’t have to.
And before the accusations start to fly, I don’t feel this way because he’s Jewish, but because he was weak. I feel that my contact with people like him was to teach me that I was far too merciful, and the experience did help me to embrace HBD, though probably not in the way some butt hurt “white” people wish I did.
When you put you penis in women who you wouldn’t consider mothering your children, you’re already in sewerville, but it is somewhat understandable since minimally suitable women are in short supply in the west. Still, a responsible adult understands there are consequences for their actions, and doesn’t run from them.
I can’t say whether abortion is the right or wrong thing to do, but it is killing a human being for your convenience. People may be used to doing this in various ways…we overwork and underpay people in many necessary professions, and accept many fatal things that affect certain groups, usually the poor, more than others. Abortion is not much different from causing spontaneous abortions or failures to implant or carry to term. It’s just more direct.
But direct or indirect, there are consequences.
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