Yes, I know what some of you are thinking. “Game mediocre girls?! What’s the point? That’s like learning how to appreciate the aroma of a turd bouquet.”
This electro-retreat tries to stay as close as possible to practical advice that would work in the real world. In the real world, most men are not banging out 9s and 10s (for the simple reason that there aren’t nearly enough 9s and 10s to service all the men who want them). In the real world, some men are huge nerds. As CH has written before, game, like all male attractiveness traits sans perhaps fame, has its limits. Notwithstanding tout-able exceptions to the contrary, all else equal game will not enable the typical male 3 to date female 8s on a long-term basis.
Given that plain-as-day premise (and yes, I know there are game maestros who joyously flout the fat part of the bell curve), there remains a healthy market for the placid love of mediocre girls who are, after all, not fugs nor morbidly obese Beelzeblobs.
Short primer
Untouchables: 0,1
Uglies: 2,3
Mediocrities:4,5,low 6
Cuties: high 6,7
Hotties: 8,9,10
In the arena of accelerated seduction, comparative SMVs matter. Half of men are starting from a low spot in the male sexual hierarchy, from where a bounce up to dating 5s or 6s would represent for them considerable improvement in their romantic fortunes.
This post, then, is for those men. It’s quick and dirty game for the mediocrities and, to a lesser extent, the cuties who have not yet had their egos inflated past their psi burst risk. Game doesn’t need to do much to make a man much happier than he ever imagined he could be. If a low SMV man is sadly accustomed to dating 3s, the joy of dating 5s regularly will make him feel like the luckiest man on earth. (At least until he gets bored of the 5s.)
Gaming mediocre girls is, in the general, a less purposefully antagonistic affair than gaming hotter girls. This is because middling chicks have lower self-esteems and thus don’t require the verbal feints and parries that hotter girls need to feel excited about a man.
The above betacentric generality loses relevance if the SMVs between the man and the mediocrity are close. That is, a male 8 gaming a female 5 will need more front-loaded beta reassurance game to make her feel like he is attainable and sincerely interested in her. For him, simple compliments on her sense of style can open the floodgates to speed seduction.
But a man who is closer in SMV to a mediocre 5, or even lower SMV than her, will have to game her like she’s a 7. However, my travels across the dating landscape have revealed a peculiarity to gaming mediocrities: Many are so beaten down by the pump and dumps they’ve suffered that they need to hear a nice thing before they’ll be receptive to any sort of pickup attempt.
The key is how your “nice” opener is framed. It can’t be chucked into the air like a hail mary pass. It can’t be sappy. It can’t be trite. Instead, try this:
“You seem like a happy person. That’s not a bad thing.”
To a genuinely upbeat girl, this will provoke a smile. Technically, it’s a compliment. But it’s also a very subtle neg and frame control; you’re short-circuiting her instinct to assume she’s being patronized, while guiding her to a conversation on your terms.
Even compliments can be massaged by game so that they are more effectively delivered. If you’re a nerd for whom 5s and 6s are a dream come true, game for mediocre girls who otherwise wilt under the heat of intense seduction techniques may be something you should consider adding to your traditional pickup repertoire.

[…] Gaming Mediocre Girls […]
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My comment is topic unrelated, I just wanted to tell my story which will probably win an omega of the (enter the period) contest and get some advice from the manosphere public.
I’m 26 year old male with an above-than-average paid office job, good-looking and receiving a good deal of attention from women around me, although almost never from the ones I like. The reason for the latter as I understand it now is that I can never keep cool when interacting with women I like and I methodically violate every rule described in the sixteen commandments.
So here is the story:
I’ m romantically attracted to my colleague with whom we have worked for 2 years and had previously known each other for about 2 years although saw each other very rarely. She is also 26, very hot, intelligent, behaves very gentle and friendly towards people and receives a lot of attention from the men around. When I first met her at my new job 2 years ago she displayed clear signs of affection and I thought that she had fallen for me then. We went out on a date several times but then I decided to stay friends/colleagues mainly because I was recovering from a break-up and did not want to get myself into a serious relationship again. She was chasing after me then for several months, I was acting like a real asshole since all I wanted to do at that time was to be left alone, and I was annoyed by all this unwanted attention I was receiving from her. Eventually she also cooled down, we did not talk much for several months and then it all went to a mundane colleague relationship. Several months ago we started to communicate more at work since we were made a part of one team and both stayed late at work on daily basis for several weeks. It was then that I started to have feelings for her and we went out on a date several times and once she even invited me for a wine to her house, but she was reluctant even to have a kiss me there so I left with nothing. Some time ago I learned that she is seeing a married expat ( 6 years older than her) from our office, they obviously want to keep this relationship secret from everyone else.I incidentally learned about it when working on her computer at work and he started texting her through the office communicator thinking that she was at her workplace. This was the last bit which completely destabilized me emotionally I started shaddering them, I was reflecting a lot on how I lost an opportunity to be with her and how I should have behaved when she was seeing me more than a friend. It also destroyed her image of a good girl in my head, but strangely did not lessen my feeling to no extent. To sum it up I’m feeling blindly jealous now with no one to blame in what happened but myself. Her expat lover has left for his country now to see his family and will be absent for a month or two. I decided to tell her how I felt 3 days ago, seeing it as a last resort, and it turned things even worse. Today she told that she sees me as a good friend which sounded like a death sentence to me.
Do you think I can do something to fix it up? I’m really a mess now, and seeing her everyday makes my life miserable, I’m thinking of quitting my job once the project is finished. But maybe there is a way to get her to like me like she once did, i.e. to erase her beta image of me and substitute it with an alpha she once (supposedly) saw in me?
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Your only shot now is to ignore her to every extent possible without seeming hurt, and make sure she sees you interacting/flirting with other cute girls. (Which you should be doing anyway.) Cultivate that harder-edged persona you had with her when you first started working there. Treat her as an annoyance you’re forced to tolerate.
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I honestly think it’s too late now. Never ever ever tell a girl you’re not already fucking how you feel about her. The movies might suggest that she should swoon into your arms when you open your heart but that never happens. You have been friendzoned by this girl. Go meet other women and get over your oneitis. Down the line she might come back but I wouldn’t waste any more time on her.
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Thanks for reply Sparks. I know you are right, and it is far beyound repair now, nevertheless I will try the strategy in the comment above, maybe miracles can still happen.
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Hi Amy, thanks for reply. I will try to do it, though, to be honest, I don’t have much hope that it will work. I think that I can assume that you are a girl, right? Would you fall for such a trick from a guy that you once wanted for a boyfriend? I would also appreciate if you give me a woman’s perspective on why would a girl like her start dating a married man when there were a lot of admirers she can choose from? Again, appreciate very much your answers.
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I might fall for it, if the guy acted that way initially, and if I’d been attracted to him initially.
It may or may not work. But even if it doesn’t, you still win, because you’ve regained your pride by treating her just like you did when she was an annoyance chasing YOU. Plus your assholish indifference will also make you more attractive to other girls. No matter how she reacts, pursue other girls.
IME girls who get involved with married guys tend to have intimacy issues and daddy issues. It really has no correlation to how hot the girl is.
[CH: it has nothing to do with intimacy or daddy issues (which are starting to sound like lame all-purpose excuses for just about every notable female sexual behavior that makes people feel uncomfortable). women are simply attracted to men who are loved by other women, and that’s why married men are attractive to women. they come “pre-approved”, so to speak.]
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Hi Amy, thanks for reply. I will try to do it, though, to be honest, I don’t have much hope that it will work. I think that I can assume that you are a girl, right? Would you fall for such a trick from a guy that you once wanted for a boyfriend? I would also appreciate if you give me a woman’s perspective on why would a girl like her start dating a married man when there were a lot of admirers she can choose from? Again, appreciate very much your answers.
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> “I decided to tell her how I felt 3 days ago, seeing it as a last resort, and it turned things even worse. Today she told that she sees me as a good friend which sounded like a death sentence to me.”
Jesus Christ you fucked up.
1) You told her that you have “feelings”. Real Men do not have “feelings”. “Feelings” are for women and children.
2) Do you think that that lying wife-cheating sociopathic whoreson motherfucker who is banging her right now has any “feelings” at play here? Hell no. Sociopaths have no feelings. All that that motherfucker wants is simply to dip his stick in that hot wet pussy. And then to laugh at her afterwards. If you’re interested in feelings, then ask Mr Sociopaths’ wife what “feelings” feel like, after she discovers this adultery of his. And then a few years from now, ask their poor little children what it “feels” like to grow up in a household headed by a single mother with no proper masculine influence in their lives anymore.
3) Worst of all, THIS WHORE IS A LYING CHEATING FILTHY CUNT. While she’s inviting you over to drink wine at her apartment, she’s also banging some other woman’s husband?
HOW DARE YOU ALLOW YOURSELF TO FALL FOR A CUNT LIKE THAT?!?
Look at yourself in the mirror.
You want to get involved with a WITCH who is destroying another woman’s family and who will likely ruin several children’s childhoods?
What the fuck is wrong with you?
Where is your moral compass?
God damn it, man.
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>3)
HOW DARE YOU ALLOW YOURSELF TO FALL FOR A CUNT LIKE THAT?!?
Look at yourself in the mirror.
You want to get involved with a WITCH who is destroying another woman’s family and who will likely ruin several children’s childhoods?
What the fuck is wrong with you?
Where is your moral compass?
God damn it, man.
Have been repeating it to myself like a mantra many times a day. It really helps, thanks man!
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How da GBFM TEXT WOMENZ:
Short primer
Untouchables: 0,1 DO NOTtx TEXTZ!
Uglies: 2,3 DO NOT TEXTZ!
Mediocrities:4,5,low 6 L
Cuties: high 6,7 LOTSA
Hotties: 8,9,10 LOTSAS COCKASZ 4U!
zllzozozolzlozo
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Da Autistic Gamer does not text women, does not lock lips with other women, does not collect phone nos. from other women, does not make passes at other women. Da Gamer cocksasz only for Mrs. Gamer. Da Gamer will flirt with and enjoy chemistry with other women though. lolozozloolzololz Da Gamer will go out to dance without Mrs. Gamer any night that Da Gamer pleases. Or go to bars. Da Autistic Gamer can stay out as late as he pleases. Mrs. Gamer will keep her ass at home waiting for da Autistic Gamer.
If da Autistic Gamer takes Mrs. Gamer out dancing, she only wants to dance with da Gamer but he dances with all da other women–lulz. Mrs. Gamer isn’t on fb and doesn’t text or do girls’ night out. Mrs. Gamer keeps looking good and flirting with da Gamer and grooming da Gamer and making him sammiches. Da Gamer will flirt with Mrs. Gamer alla time a little here and there until he wants action. Maybe groom Mrs. Gamer a little, too, and do her honeydo’s.
That’s how it’s done. 🙂
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no fuck that no honydo’s
I notice I do one fucking honeydo they multiply like roaches better to not do any then they are rare
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If the honeydo is good for the household, I do it. If it’s just for her, it’s a favor and I may say “no.”
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“good for the household” AND “a man’s job”
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There is never a discussion of gaming economically disadvantaged women on this blog.
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there aren’t any
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Good point. I see cute working-class girls with total losers all the time. How can a smart, successful guy get a piece of that action? If the Boss-Secretary Strategy can save Western civilization, is there special game behind it?
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> “cute working-class girls… How can a smart… guy…”
For the sake of discussion, let’s say that you have an IQ of 130.
A working-class girl is going to have an IQ more like 100.
That’s TWO STANDARD DEVIATIONS less than you.
Just carrying on a conversation with someone who is one standard deviation stupider than you [IQ 115] is going to require an enormous amount of experience in “dumbing it down”.
This sort of thing can be done, but do not kid yourself – it is NOT easy.
And if you do get lucky with her, then afterwards, don’t expect any topic in rocket surgery to be broached during your pillow talk.
“Me Ugh, You Jane.”
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And as you work your way down the IQ food chain, my guess is that VENEREAL DISEASE is going to become an increasingly likely presence in your extracurricular shenanigans.
Just because you have a lifetime history of dipping it in IQ 120-130 college chicks without catching herpes or venereal warts, do NOT assume that your luck is going to hold as you head down towards IQ 100.
Also, cigarette smoking is going to be vastly more common in that IQ stratum.
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2SD difference is a problem. 3SD difference is enough that you can run an emulation of her that allows you to enjoy her and provides its own amusement.
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Agreed. You’d think “it’s easier because they’re dumber” which in a way is true, but for more articulate, higher IQ men, finding any level to communicate with her on will be rough. More subtle remarks, negs, humor etc will often go over her head. I don’t demand to be intellectually impressed by every woman I meet, but your typical retail worker, waitress, construction flagger etc will tend to be pretty fucking dull in all aspects.
Also, I’ve found that decent looking women in lower strata of society tend to have very high standards, if only because so many of their peers are obese they can afford to be picky. Let’s face it, cute working class girls are few and far between in this world of cheap processed carbs and no exercise.
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prob is you got to make at least 200k after tax to compete
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Good point. I see cute working-class girls with total losers all the time. They seem to prefer them. How can an upper-middle class guy get a piece of that action? Is there special game behind the Boss-Secretary Sexual Strategy?
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I’ve noticed that some working-class girls get quite put out with me if I don’t hit on them immediately and after that they have a perpetually bad attitude towards me. I am reserved sometimes and some people don’t like that. Other working-class girls seem to _really_ take a shine to me. It seems to be totally cold or smokin’ hot with them. WCG’s are usually the ones who make a pass at me.
UMC chicks are almost always at least friendly to me. There’s usually a quick emotional connection between us. They have tougher ASD in my experience and are more narcissistic. We have something in common! 🙂 However, they aren’t typically the ones to make a pass at me. They want me to do it. They will instigate, like the drunk chick who was singing “kiss me goodnight” to me at 1 a.m. while we were dancing last Sat. I said I’d teach her to dance when she was sober earlier and I didn’t manage to avoid her on my way out. HB8 with size E cups.
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Agreed. Similar exp. here.
WCGs are usu. much more obvious than the UMC+s who look like they’re either gassy or constipated when they’re actually throwing you their subculture’s version of “The Eye”.
I’d conjecture that since funds are lower, the essentials of animal husbandry and delivering the calves in the barn must be gotten right-down-to. Especially when there’s a farm to run, chickens, eggs, hay, cows, etc.
Like the good solid Pennsylvania Dutch and Puritan forebears of old: terse and practical less the Delaclosian rococo faffery of the bored urban petit-bourgeois.
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>>>:>WCGs are usu. much more obvious than the UMC+s who look like they’re either gassy or constipated when they’re actually throwing you their subculture’s version of “The Eye”.
I think the term for that look is “mooning” though with the cow-like countenance they display could just as easily be spelled “mooing.”
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“WCGs are usu. much more obvious than the UMC+s”
Obvious, how? Hugging your hand to their chest? Hugging you? Going to lock lips? Grabbing ass? Bumping groins? Bumping you with their ass? Singing to you? (I think that that’s more UMC but I could be wrong.)
I usually realize it when they have that deer in the headlights look and are always watching me.
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worldview.
you gotta crude it up and get down on her level or you will trip her breakers out
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I recognize that, but it would seriously violate my frame. I’m trying out something new. If one of them frowns at me, I’ll smile back. That has seemed to work on at least one of them, who flashed a bright smile back.
If the plain smile doesn’t work, I’ll try a smirk. Then the philosophy of the Thigh Master, complete with visual.
Some working class girls are allergic to UMC guys–at least where their gf’s can see them together. Union v. management. They might meet him in the alley, though.
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Dude, I grew up in WC setting, moved up to a better place, I’m just not cut out for it, my family wasn’t invested in me, so I had a slow start. I don’t want to seem like an ass but 90% of people in WC neighborhoods are there for a reason. And the women are crass, unreliable, cheat like you would not believe. Sure some of them might look good, but a shiny package doesn’t mean a thing. BTW a lot of the better qualities that you might poses that bring you to a good place, they would not appreciate or understand. It is a completely different world, and it might be hostile as hell, especially if you have never lived in that environment and do not understand it. And be careful about ONS, I have some stories, but I don’t want to ma an idiot out of myself here 🙂
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+1. The crassness thing is the deal killer for me. I don’t mind a bitchy woman all that much but I can’t stand a pig. Being poor doesn’t make a woman bad but being bad very frequently makes a woman poor. Multiple divorces, multiple baby momma experiences, multiple drug, alcohol & tobacco dependencies…
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I grew up in a WC neighborhood and fought a lot growing up. The women are more hypergamous than UMC’s, no question. There’s the prejudice against people living on the “Hill” and the assumption that UMC’s are snobs and Union v. Management and political hatred.
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the thing is the chicks I deal with make more loot than me or you prob lol its crazy
so there is that competition too
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I’ve seen the same thing. The girl who lives next door with her baby daddy’s (baby daddy is off somewhere else) parents and works as a shift manager in the deli of the grocery store wouldn’t give me the time of day to hangout after she gave me her number, but leaves a snail-trail out her door when some sleeveless redneck wearing a blaze orange trucker hat pulls up in his 1995 F-150. Guess I’m too UMC for her tastes.
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Likes attract, if a single mom is ignoring you, that is a good thing. Calibrate your standards and stop fooling around.
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“Guess I’m too UMC for her tastes.”
WCG’s like UMC cock a lot if the guy isn’t a mangina. It’s a covert op for them, though. Quickies, unless you take them to Snobtown to hangout. Not based on personal experience, let me say, just my observations of others.
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What’s the best thing about dating homeless girls?
You can drop them off anywhere!
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I’ve done that! Works for me. I just can’t handle the obese.
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Game for an even slightly good looking guy gaming a medocrite if she is DTF:
Guy: Hi, I’m ___.
Girl: Hi.
Guy: Let’s have a drink.
Girl: okay.
Guy: Let’s get out of here so I can show you x (my fish, this youtube video, my bong, anything that isn’t let’s go back to my place and fuck. Although if she’s really desperate you’ll be fine with ‘let’s go back to my place so I can bang the shit out of you/titty fuck your bags of oatmeal’ And it’ll be a nice screening tactic too).
Girl: Okay.
That was hard.
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That’s what I was thinking… maybe I’m confused on what “mediocre” is. It seems like what he’s talking about works on girls who don’t get approached a lot, whatever SMV that is.
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Nope, mediocre girls aren’t like that. A lot of them keep their knees tightly locked at all times. Many have the ‘save myself for my husband’ idea which they do not abandon easily. “Dude if ur true Alpha u get dese chicks LOL” yeah well believe this, some of us out here are not true Alphas. Oh, shock, horror.
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pretty good point.
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and a lot of them are wary of the pumps and dumps they found themselves on the receiving end of at closing time. but he did preface with “if she’s dtf” so i think he gets that
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“…a lot of them are wary of the pumps and dumps they found themselves on the receiving end of at closing time….”
Only wary if the guy isn’t hot enough. I related my field report here already.
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i didn’t mean it couldn’t be overcome, just that at times an average girl can be less enthusiastic than a girl much hotter than her in the same situation. i have been periodically surprised by it
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“…at times an average girl can be less enthusiastic than a girl much hotter than her in the same situation. i have been periodically surprised by it”
i agree wholeheartedly. i have seen that on more than one occasion myself. sometimes you can stumble upon a super hot girl that is just starved for a little bit of the right kind of attention.
she’s bored with lower value guys acting like puppy dogs around her and really grateful when she meets a guy who can come across as having equal or higher value. and i don’t think it’s out of arrogance or superiority at all in many cases. i think it’s truly out of boredom because most guys act like morons around them.
and hot girls can be incredibly insecure so a little bit of attention goes a long way. especially the hot…and…smart ones. maybe it’s because they grow up with men not talking to them as much as their girlfriends in the 6 or 7 range or they had a family or an ex that always cut them down. or maybe they are former fatties and they don’t know how hot they are.
whatever the reason, an enthusiastic hot girl trumps a less enthusiastic average girl any day. that is a truly beautiful thing
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“at times an average girl can be less enthusiastic than a girl much hotter than her in the same situation. i have been periodically surprised by it”
agree! sometimes hot chicks are just bored with mediocre guys that act like bumbling morons around them and they are grateful for a guy that can give them the right kind of attention.
and in my experience, it’s rarely out of arrogance or entitlement like what you see with average girls. i think it’s truly out of boredom in many cases. hot girls are the most insecure of all. especially the hot…and…smart ones.
maybe they used to be fatties or they had family or an ex that knocked em down. or it’s because they see all their friends in the 5 or 6 range getting hit on instead of them. some hot chicks are totally clueless to their beauty.
no matter what the reason, i’ll take an enthusiastic hottie over a less than enthusiastic average girl any day. that is truly a beautiful thing.
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clarification:
i said this…”no matter what the reason, i’ll take an enthusiastic hottie over a less than enthusiastic average girl any day. .”
but should have said this…
no matter what the reason, i’ll take one enthusiastic hottie over half a dozen less than enthusiastic average girls any day.
my previous comment was just stating the obvious.
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You have just described most of the girls in my church singles group – overweight, entitled, and “waiting for Mr. Right.”
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I know an extremely dumpy, overweight 40 year old virgin who is saving herself for marriage with Mr. Right. That’s the plight of girls whose standards are just too high.
It’s really a shame for such girls that we don’t have nuns in the various Protestant denominations.
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Just an FYI: I had a Catholic aunt like this. When she finally did have sex, it was unbearable. You can’t not use an organ for decades and expect it to work. What happened was had vagina would seize up and she’d be in unbearable pain (as would my poor uncle). They had to go to doctors and counseling.
I know about all this because I used to overhear the aunt talking to my mother downstairs from my room when I was a kid during their coffee talks. My mom’s suggestion was “Use cocoa butter.” NO idea WTF that was about and probably don’t want to know…
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I flashed back to the time my little terrier banged an Irish setter about 50 times larger than himself, and got hung up afterwards. She ran around the yard dragging the poor little guy by his dick, which was firmly trapped in her puppy panooch. Your poor uncle.
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Or waiting for God to drop Mr. Right on their doorstep. They can’t be bothered to get themselves ready for an actual husband.
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I did spot a pink unicorn. HB10 church girl, single, maybe late 20’s, probably looking for marriage, at my dancing bar. I expect to see her again sometime and will see if she wants my dating coach services. Contact me on my site if you are looking to marry a hottie.
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Why don’t you marry her?
You’re not gay, are you?
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Married, hetero.
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I left a field report about gaming the 10 on my blog.
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Nope, mediocre girls aren’t like that. A lot of them keep their knees tightly locked at all times. Many have the ‘save myself for my husband’ idea which they do not abandon easily.
That is 100% true. Speaking from personal experience, mediocrities will latch onto a beta who isn’t paying them the least bit of attention and try to marry him. The beta will go along with it. I chafed enough at the idea to dump or drop all three mediocrities who tried this (two of whom are about 30, i.e., hitting the Wall) in the past couple of years.
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Good for you, you get it. They have the same attitude as entitled princesses, just mind their limitations, same crap, uglier package. My mom always forced me to date pretty girls, now I understand why, they are all the same on the inside.
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You had an excellent mother! Mine always encouraged me to date ugly girls.
I complied and married one, and my ugly wife continued reinforcing the whole idea.
I suddenly realize that I’m still having a great deal of trouble making myself believe that they are all the same on the inside. I know this to be true, intellectually, but my training–my brainwashing–was so thorough.
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Thank goodness you had a mom who gave you good advice. My mom didn’t tell me that, but she did tell me to always keep multiple girls open as options (anti-oneitis).
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Its a weird dilemma for the average beta guy who is a 3 to 5. From 18-25ish they have a really hard time finding a gf or even sex for that matter, at least from anything not a land whale. Then from 25+ women look to them for the support role they can have, and wont put out because they “don’t do that anymore” but never mind the 2-4 bastard spawn in their minivan. Anymore I wont have much to do with these types of women, and am disgusted when they hit on me. The worst thing a guy can do is impregnate one of these types of chicks. The chick gets pregnant and then finds some guy who treats her like shit and steals all her child support money. If you are 18 and reading this, if you dont really care about ur gf dont get her knocked up, if you do care about her make her stay home and keep her home and pregnant till she is 25.
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def only stay with a chick you love
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lol wtf no. Mediocre girls are prime P and D targets. And ya they do abandon all/whatever bullshit ‘save myself’ with the quickness for the right guy.
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UMC mediocre chicks? you have a point. may be choosier than they have a right to be.
WCG mediocre chicks? no. if you’re remotely UMC (or confident good looking WC) and she isn’t shrouded in judgemental gfs, you could cut that conversation in half and get the same result.
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If the guy is a 7 and the girl is a 5, sure. If the guy is a 5 and the girl is a 5…nah.
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I don’t buy it. I have a lot of experience in this area, I like girls that aren’t mainstream beautiful. No fatties, of course, just different. They are, for the most part, FAR MORE RESISTANT to having sex than other girls. I don’t know why – maybe they’re just not used to it, or can’t handle the thought of it, but definitely they don’t want to date because they know they’ll just end up having sex. Some of them want to save for marriage, some are just scared. Last-minute resistance can be very high with these women.
Nobody ever wants to deal with this fact, because all the commenters are Alphas who are sooooo busy nailing 9s and 10s so who the fuck cares about this stupid crap bro, are you seriously telling me you date women outside my top area, LOL u r idiot bro.
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i agree with you here, and the fact is there are parties or whatever where there just aren’t a lot of options and you’re already there. so whatever, i go with it. it’s fun. some of them are just unaccustomed to being approached.
but more often, my belief is that average girls are constantly shooting for a relationship with guys above their smv, and so are gunshy because those guys have sex with them but don’t want relationships with them. a 8,9,10 girl doesn’t really see guys out of her league so her expectations aren’t unrealistic. but guys will hook up with a 6 they have no intentions of being with long-term. so i think these types of girls are more often disappointed, and so can be more (surprisingly) reluctant.
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That is, a male 8 gaming a female 5 will need more front-loaded beta reassurance game to make her feel like he is attainable and sincerely interested in her. For him, simple compliments on her sense of style can open the floodgates to speed seduction.
This is absolutely true, they talk themselves out of being interested in you because you’re out of their “league”. Another issue is the shyness factor, they know they’re not “all that” and are sincerely puzzled why an 8+ man wants to talk to them for any length of time, and get flustered and withdraw. I don’t hit on 6’s or lower generally (well, if copious amounts of alcohol are not involved anyway), but I did approach and talk to one last year whose friend kept pointing at me and talking to her from across the patio bar (you know the deal “Hey, look at him! OMG!”) that kind of thing. I walked over, not to game her, just to say hi and introduce myself since it is my main hang out location. She stood there stock frozen, with her eyes about as huge and wide as you can make them (and pupils that got almost supernaturally wide), and literally half stuttered out a “h…hi”. Like a deer in headlights. I smiled, gave her a “nice to meet” you, and worked my way around the room leaving her standing. Freaking weird ass shit right there. I could have said “Hi, let’s hit the bathroom so you can give me head” and it was straight up obvious that she would have immediately complied. Weird weird weird.
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This is absolutely true, they talk themselves out of being interested in you because you’re out of their “league”. Another issue is the shyness factor, they know they’re not “all that” and are sincerely puzzled why an 8+ man wants to talk to them for any length of time, and get flustered and withdraw.
It’s also common, if two girls differ in hotness, for the less attractive one to DQ herself if the more attractive one shows interest in me, even if I’d be content with the less attractive one. I’d be happy with anything from 7 on up, but I guess they don’t realize that.
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I have female friends who most would agree are hotter than I am so I know the other side of this dynamic. If I’m out with one and a guy approaches us both I generally assume he’s interested in her over me, so I’ll “DQ” myself by letting her lead with flirting. If she seems interested I’ll definitely back off because I don’t compete with friends.
I only mention this because everyone here thinks women always compete against each other. If the girls are truly friends, that’s not always the case. If you like the less attractive girl, you might have to isolate her a bit and make it clear she’s the one you like.
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I only mention this because everyone here thinks women always compete against each other.
My guess is that’s more the case if the girls are about equal in attractiveness. If you have two 8s looking at a guy, it’s cat fight time, lzolzozlz
If you like the less attractive girl, you might have to isolate her a bit and make it clear she’s the one you like.
I’d be happy with either, but in their minds it still seems to mean “the hotter one is first in line”.
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I won’t compete with a friend regardless of SMV differential. If he’s flirting with her or she likes him, that’s cool. At first approach, I have little to no investment in whatever guy we’re talking to, even if he’s hot. There are plenty of men out there.
Again, just trying to point out that the less attractive/quieter/less flashy/smaller chested/whatever girl that you might like better is not necessarily rejecting you by letting the other girl lead with the flirting.
Now, if you see a high SMV girl with a much lower SMV friend (say, a 9 with a 4-5), watch how the 9 reacts when you ignore her to hit on the 4-5 girl. *That* is a real hamster wheel experience. The hotter the girl, the less she can handle any form of sexual rejection.
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Hi Amy,
Yeah, I’ve seen gf’s throw their friends at me. All I do is open sets for dancing–I don’t actually pickup or get phone nos.
“If she seems interested I’ll definitely back off because I don’t compete with friends.”
My future wife actually asked me out for a girl friend of hers to a double date when we first met and I had to find another guy. Then she tried to talk me into liking her friend instead of her. 🙂 I guess she must have liked me a little at that point because she went out with me when I asked her.
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Ah, this is classic girl game. Tell the guy he’s perfect for so and so friend. It lets you compliment and flirt with him with built in deniability, meanwhile you’re watching his reactions carefully. Lol now I’ll get flamed without mercy but I’ve done this many times.
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Here’s how it works out on the dance floor. I approach a group of girls and ask one to dance. If she’s the “one” that the group picked, she agrees to dance. Otherwise, she declines. If I ask another from the group to dance after the “one”, then she’ll usually decline and look at the “one.” The “one” will be beaming.
I don’t usually chat girls up. Last night was unusual that way. Two women invited me to their table to chat. I had danced with one of them. No women wanted to dance anymore.
These two were playing me, I think. They asked my vitals: age & status, supposedly for the mother of one of them. They asked me if I was a swinger or a player. Gave and asked logistical info. Each of them outed the other about the other’s husband or bf. They were friends, supposedly. I found out from them that the bf isn’t live-in and lives a little ways away. One was wearing a pushup bra and was trim. Couldn’t tell about the other.
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“One was wearing a pushup bra and was trim. Couldn’t tell about the other.”
No, she was wearing a BAD pushup bra. You’re not supposed to be able to tell! Lol
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Pushup bra inspection rape!
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that is the one you should keep
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“This is because middling chicks have lower self-esteems and thus don’t require the verbal feints and parries that hotter girls need to feel excited about a man.”
Not sure I agree with this one, Monsieur l’Heartiste. Sadly, in today’s culture, I’ve noticed that the entitlement and bitchy attitude (once reserved for the hot women) has percolated down through the mediocrties as well. The only thing different between gaming a hottie and gaming a mid-ranger will be the lack of competition for the latter.
In other words, it doesn’t matter that YOU think the 5-6 is worth less effort. In her mind, she’s just as desirable as Scarlett Johansson, and you may have to woirk just as hard to notch a 5 as a 9. (At the bottom of Ugly Hollow, your thesis may be correct; but with the mediocrities, my observation is that it’s not always the case.)
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I get away with more with hot bitches than someone with a ugly bitch
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A word of warning. If you have even a mediocre Alpha game, if you are naturally a 6 but you know well how to present yourself and maintain your frame so you have a realistic shot at playing a 7 or 8… if that’s you, then be VERY, VERY careful about slumming it with a 4.
Why, you ask?
Because if you are that guy, and you bang a 4 and give her the most powerful orgasm she has ever experienced, and you go back and do it again… by the third time, she is going to be hopelessly addicted to you. It’s going to be very difficult to get rid of her.
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You are so f***king right. It seems like a thrill when a female who is lower SMV than you or thinks that she is becomes enthralled with you. Things can get so good that it messes with your mind too. No more LTR’s for me with dumpster dating.
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this is true, but there are ways to avoid it, you just become flaky and extremely indifferent about everything. or you clarify up front what you will accept. they might get mad and disappear, but they’ll text occasionally in the middle of the night down the road and sometimes right when you need a free one.
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Or you exercise some self control and never take advantage of the poor girl in the first place.
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Fucking dumbass Willoughbys.
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This is no joke. That’s basically what I did when I was in my 20s, and that psycho obsessive bitch was so hard to get rid of that I basically ended up chained in the basement like that author in the movie “Misery,” held prisoner by a psycho fat chick who refused to let me go and kept me hobbled so I didn’t have the strength to do anything about it.
I finally escaped the basement, but I still haven’t escaped the house, even now. DAMN it has been hard to get rid of this girl.
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CH I have a specific question…would appreciate answer. This little anecdote from last weekend illustrates how weak my internals are based on being: 39, divorced with kids, have my kids with my every weekend.
The story: so I was at a restaurant with my 2 adorable kids. Had a cute waitress; I’ve noticed her before. I am able to smoothly talk/flirt with women, especially when I don’t have any expectations. This waitress is an HB8, but I have been with dozens of equally hot women, most from the age of 19 until 28 when I got married to my now ex wife.
Funny…I did an almost exact line like you say above. I told her she seems to enjoy her job. And indeed she is very bubbly and happy. Place is super duper busy (Friday night) and she’s running around like crazy…but every once in a while she would stop at my table and talk. I have no trouble talking and being confident (but was she seeing me as an old guy? see below questions)… so I learn that she’s 24, in school (local community college), wants to start her own business one day, not sure what business, HER BOYFRIEND has a place in Colorado where she might go to start the business, oh it turns out actually she’s done with school and right now only being a waitress (lol).
*QUESTION*: What exactly does it mean when a girl casually mentions “my boyfriend does this and that…..” when I am NOT a tool who asks “do you have a boyfriend?” I never do that.
Is it definitely a blow off like “stop flirting with me” or is it a shit test that I should be able to pass and how?
As I’m sitting there with my greying hair, still fit, 39, divorced, my two kids there with me on a Friday night as they always are, I think “there is no way this 24 year old cutie would actually go out with me.” Bad internals or am I right to think this?
And in general what is the deal when girls casually mention “my boyfriend” when I’m just talking, not coming on too strong, not appearing too shy or nerdy but also not really hitting on them hardcore either.
Another point is we were looking into each other’s eyes and she seemed to like me. Again, I *have* had some success in the past, I used to be very “cute” and was told that by many women, have been with more than a dozen girls as hot as her… point being I can recognize and have experienced women actually finding me attractive.
My main problem with internals right now is being 39 and divorced with kids (and being a dedicated father). Like I actually felt like telling this girl, “You are not out of my league, historically. When I was 25 I had a girlfriend who looked exactly like you and was just as young, and same when I was 26 and 27 and 28 when I got married to one.”
And that really is true. In my life at any time between age 18 and 28, I had a girlfriend who looked just like her. I had some “game.” Not girls who literally looked like her twin, but equally as pretty and fit…HB8s. Like despite my bad internals on the one hand, on the other hand I still think of myself as the attractive guy I was when I was 27 (until I happen to glance in the mirror and see the grey hair).
So what is the play for a 39 year divorced guy flirting with a 24 year old HB8 when his kids are right there with him? (BTW my kids know my situation and are routing for me…they want me to find a woman.)
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Should have put more details re the initial flirting. Actually it was:
Me: Are you a ballet dancer?
Her: No but I did ballet when I was their age (referring to my kids).
Me: Hmmmm.
Her: That girl over there (referring to an ugly other waitress) does professional dancing in her real job. You should talk to her.
Me: Oh really? What kind of dancing?
Her: Some kind of tribal type dancing or something. (other girl is a chola looking native american type hispanic)
Me: What do you do for your real job?
Her: …… that’s how I got the info that she goes to school (or used to) and wants to start her own business.
“Are you a ballet dancer?” has become one of my go-to openers. Obviously girl has to have good body and I don’t “open” anyone who doesn’t.
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I’m much older than you and was attracting attention from an HB10 recently. And giving her my time as well! You’re not too old. It has nothing to do with looks unless you’re Quasimodo (that just makes it take longer and requires tighter game). It’s the internals. Figure out how women think and how to spot their Indications of Interest (IOI’s). Make sure your confidence, body language, etc. are like they ought to be.
The HB8 chick is attracted to you but wants to be loyal to her bf, so she’s letting you know. Maybe you can ratchet up her attraction so that you bed her in a way that she can rationalize that “it just happened.” She needs plausible deniability.
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agreed, age isn’t an issue, or not a major one. i’m not even in great shape and i’m older than you and it’s not ever the issue. 23-28 don’t bat an eye.
just a thought but i think she was seeing how you’d deal with the news and probably is totally willing to cheat but doesn’t want to be both a whore and dishonest. you just ignore it and proceed and the worst that happens is she’s indignant down the line and you move on.
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did she touch you?
if she did then mentioning the BF was a barrier and an invitation to break that barrier.
i agree, you have a ton of internal work to do. you have said like three things here that make you a target for a woman looking for a farm animal.
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I don’t think that hugs count as touching. The meaning of touch depends on context. If done by a waitress or bartender, a touch might just be an attempt to increase the tip (as opposed to the shaft, nyuk, nyuk). A woman bartender kino’d me three times covertly when I was out with my wife, but had no real investment. Meh.
If a woman kino’s you and spends time talking, then that’s a fakeable IOI, though it may be important for corroboration. Some IOI’s can’t be faked since they are autonomically-generated and those are the ones that you want to focus on. I list some on my blog. I haven’t seen anyone else mention those.
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> “divorced with kids, have my kids with my every weekend… a cute waitress…”
With waitresses, the obvious question is whether she is just flirting with you for a tip.
Try stiffing her on the tip and see whether she still likes you.
Beyond that, if she’s for real – if she isn’t just gaming you for tips – then the scheduling conflicts are gonna be a real problem.
Let’s say that you have the kids from roughly 6PM Friday until 6PM Sunday.
That means no partying on Friday night or on Saturday night.
So you’ll be meeting her on a weeknight [Sunday through Thursday].
Which means that you’ll be showing up for work the next day [Monday through Friday] with no sleep and a pretty bad hangover – maybe even still drunk.
Are you ready for that?
Is your boss ready for that?
Also, if you’re more of a morning shift guy – say 7AM to 4:30PM – and if she’s more of an evening shift gal – say 4PM to 12:30AM – then hooking up with her is going to be almost impossible.
Next, waitresses tend to know the local nightlife like nobody’s business.
So she will probably have very strong opinions about where to go and where to not to go.
You could use that to your advantage – ask her, “If I take you to ‘Bar X’, then will anyone there realize that you are out without your boyfriend? I’d rather he not know about this.”
Finally, do NOT ask her out on a date.
Instead, INFORM her that the two of you will be going out on a date.
“Okay, you get off your shift on Wednesday night at 7:30PM, so go home and freshen up and come back and meet me at ‘Bar X’ at 9PM.”
Do not ask her to do that. ORDER her to do that.
Betas ask questions. Alphas issue orders.
And if she doesn’t arrive at ‘Bar X’ on time, or if you get there before she does, then immediately start hitting on the hottest chick at ‘Bar X’.
Either she never shows up, and you might score with that new chick, or else she does show up, and she gets furious with jealousy.
Win-win-win.
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Hell no. Do not ask this woman out. Especially if you enjoy going to this restaurant occasionally.
At 39 even with graying hair, you have plenty of SMV. Yes, you need hardcore inner work. I always say ‘inner work’ because it really does require a continuous discipline, day in and day out.
She’s told you she has a boyfriend, while serving you for a tip. Sure she may find you attractive, and that’s great. But don’t make an ass out of yourself and ask her on a date and presume authority over what her boyfriend will be told about it. Lame, weak, inappropriate.
If she upps the ante, oh, 2 more distinct times and it’s clear that she’s unhappy or looking to move on from this guy – then that’s your green light. Until that happens, no pursuing. If and when she does (unlikely but possibly) give you these signals, you’ll look much better from not having been needy and not having leaped to a far-fetched conclusions. That goes way past a positive application of ‘being bold’ and into the realm of ‘inappropriate and thirsty’.
Keep being friendly and next time you see this girl, communicate just like you did before – and a step forward would be to steer the convo into the social and if she’s warm/open with you, you could say to her: ‘maybe you have some single girlfriends that i’d click with’. the other thing you could say to her is – if you’re moving forward and seeing/talking to other 20-something chicks – drop that casually into your convo with her. Without sounding tryhard or proud of it – it’s just the usual for you. HTH.
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I agree, don’t ask her out without a signal. In the meantime, you can still flirt with her, tease her, sexualize indirectly and discreetly. Tell her, “Let’s just be friends…without benefits, of course.” [smirk]
Flake on her when she’s leaning into you and there’s rapport and don’t be predictable about when you’ll show up next. Kino her just before you leave.
You can also throw a small party (say, 10-15 people) and invite her and some of her gf’s along with some other people. You need to build rapport for this to work. It provides plausible deniability. At the party, flirt up her gf’s a little with humor and watch her reaction carefully. Flirt with them a little, go talk with guys, go back and flirt some more, talk with other people, etc.
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Thanks but there will be no next time. I don’t generally eat pizza, as it is garbage. I was only there because when I picked up my kids it was close to 9 and my ex had not fed them. I was basically asking a “3 second rule” type question, like what was my move *then* and generally what does the casual reference to “my boyfriend” mean. I’m not going to stalk this girl.
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“generally what does the casual reference to “my boyfriend” mean”
fair question.
if she throws it out when things are escalating or some clear logistical opportunity for isolation is imminent – that’s when it can be a disclaimer, just to ‘clear her conscience’ or to ‘make it your fault’. To her hamster mind, the disclosure is absolution.
if that’s not the case, it’s generally one of three things:
-she’s becoming attracted to you and thus reminding herself (and you) that she isn’t available. a ‘good girl impulse’ of sorts.
-she’s plainly communicating that though she’s allowing some light flirting, ‘please don’t ask me out b/c that would be awkward’
-she’s just proud to have a bf period (but that’s usually uglier chicks)
HTH
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lol thanks so in other words, one never knows.
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Things are getting a lot easier for me at that age, I don’t know what it is but young girls give me IOIs like crazy. I feel like Don Draper these days, I have a body, a face, good job, house, car. Took a long time to put all that together, I was a very late bloomer.
Often the bf or husband mention is an IOI. It’s saying “here’s the situation, you still interested?”. She wants to see if you are alpha or beta. If you can sub communicate your understanding of this it puts you on another level.
I’ll always say he sounds like a nice guy and then move on. Don’t bad mouth the bf or husband or she’ll defend him, if anything defend him and she’ll start to bad mouth him. Then you see where the cracks are.
You have to remember that a woman could have a bf and be actively looking for his replacement.
She may also want to stay with him because he’s a good provider and get some action on the side.
She could want that now and decide later on she wants to leave him for you.
It’s too fluid to read much into it, as a player you don’t really care if she’s attached. It’s meaningless.
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> “I feel like Don Draper these days”
Tell me about it.
I thought I was a Playa when I was younger, but now I realize how much poontang I was missing out on because of my babyface.
Also, the lower you can train your voice to speak, the better.
> “You have to remember that a woman could have a bf and be actively looking for his replacement.”
But also never forget that if she will cheat on him, then she WILL cheat on you.
NEVER ALLOW YOURSELF TO DEVELOP FEELINGS FOR A CHEATER.
She will ruin you.
Feelings are reserved for nice girls from good families – girls with kind warm gentle hearts.
Not for filthy stinking evil cheating cunts.
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I agree, these women are only for sex.
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Are you men or women? Develop feelings for whoever the shit you want. Stop avoiding pain like a bunch of pussies. It only makes you that much more alpha. Women get baggage, men get better.
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She wouldn’t be talking to you if she didn’t like you: age is not an issue. BF comment: rationalizing that she’s loyal to her boyfriend while she flirts with you. Children are present and she’s flirting with you: she’s projecting sitting at the table with everyone, not just being the servant.
You could ask her, “Are you here every Sunday?” or something like that. She’ll tell you her schedule and you can go back alone and get her number, easy as pie. She’s interested.
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“*QUESTION*: What exactly does it mean when a girl casually mentions “my boyfriend does this and that…..” when I am NOT a tool who asks “do you have a boyfriend?” I never do that.”
To me it signals that she is sexually active (“I’m giving it to him but it could change you know”) and has experience in relationships (female projection). If it’s not elicited by beta behaviour, it’s definitely an IOI. In this situation, if you have any interest in the girl, just keep going like you would when a girl is single. But keep in mind that you are going to destroy a relationship.
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You’re in the same position I would have been in, but I was lucky enough to find this place (and apply the teachings…) before my pending divorce “got real.” (except I’m in my 50’s), so here goes…
the boyfriend comments (or any comments involving relationship/sex) is ALWAYS an IOI… if she wasn’t thinking about it, she wouldn’t be saying it… EXCEPT this is always happening at the subconscious level.
people have a subroutine circuit in their brains that is always trying to make more copies of itself with the best genetic material possible/available. that’s why fertile young women trip our triggers, and why women are “hypergamous.” they are ALWAYS subconsciously looking for a better deal…
read some more around here and at some of the links on the left there (Rational Male is good…). The “hamster” is the woman’s interface that allows her to live with her subconsciously made decisions. hamsters are always able to spin fast enough to justify whatever their choices are…
In your case, (or mine if I got divorced…) 24 is not too young at all. In fact, based on Rational Male’s SMV “chart” (look for it over there…) women peak at around 23, and men peak at 38 or so. so, you are right in the ball park for that 24 yo waitress. That “I’m an old guy. I should be dating women my own age…” is straight up feminine imperative scripting. You can read all about it over at Rational Male, but basically it’s the thought that she is “out of your league” and that you should “settle” for a woman your own age (who is Just as Hot™…)
“You are not out of my league, historically…” means that she IS out of your league now… also that is a qualifying statement to her, so don’t say that!… a better statement would be “I know your type!”… and just leave it at that…
A couple of comments on your internals – yes they seem to be weak, but that isn’t so bad right now…it’s all a process and you are asking the right questions…
more of an issue seems to be that your questions are coming from a predisposition of wanting a LTR/marriage again. the feminine imperative is in play…
the real question seems to be “would I be able to have a LTR with the waitress.” STOP THAT RIGHT NOW! read up around here until you disabuse yourself of that mindset…
per the teachings here, alphas have the choice of LTR or not… but they generally are not looking for that oneitis/LTR upfront. that’s classic beta (placing her on a pedestal)…
another comment on your internals – modeling behavior for your kids. it’s just as important for you to get game so you can model appropriate internals for your children. you said you are an involved dad. good job! your kids need to see the “real talk” in action (boys and girls, both). so, the more you internalize game, the more your children will benefit. “Do it for the children!” Ha…
As far as the waitress flirting for tips – so what! assume the sale, game her (stiffing her on the tip is a good neg (but only if you are going to game her)…see skittles guy game for details…), and let her hamster figure out why it’s great idea for her to want to be in an old divorced guys’ soft harem…
Good Luck!
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[…] See the original post: Gaming Mediocre Girls | Chateau Heartiste […]
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I was dancing with a smokin’ hot crossover HB8 last weekend. Charming chick–hottest smile and laugh. Hottest chemistry for me in a long time.
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i don’t think you should exactly look for these, but when they present themselves and aren’t overweight or ugly, you really shouldn’t rule them out. there are things you can’t always predict on first glance. some of the finest tits and ass, and the tightest vaginas, are not necessarily evident until you are right there. most non-ugly girls have at least one thing you’ll appreciate.
the tightest girl i was ever with was a 4, 5 at best. i had decided (drunk) to just go ahead because of her massive jugs. saw her at parties and i just suddenly felt like seeing them. i doubt i will ever find a vagina that tight again. obviously wasn’t enough to stay interested, but well worth it a few times.
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The reverse is true. Sometimes an 8-9 has a funny shaped vagina or a pelvic shape that doesn’t match your own body shape.
Bukowski’s Women is full of such humorous encounters.
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This is very true, I remember one girl I banged a few years back. She wasn’t the prettiest, probably a 6 at best but when her clothes came off I was amazed to find she had a great little body. And I nearly didn’t bother pursuing her, it was only because she liked me so much that I did. Once I got in there it was great, she was ultra submissive and loved to suck cock.
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Which will happen naturally as his game improves and he moves up to 7s and 8s.
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The thing is, the vast majority of men don’t improve their game over the years. They may think they do, but it’s only because they stay within their own age range and the women deteriorate.
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Unemployed people in 1933 in line for a government job. Back then, all dressed in classy suits and hats.
http://www.cnn.com/2014/04/14/opinion/wheeler-minimum-income/index.html?hpt=hp_t4
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“Shallow Hal” concept is when you think of a girl as higher SMV than others. This makes gaming mediocre girls more fun because you can sometimes undercover a gem no one else bothers to game.
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Except thinking a girl is hotter than she is…
Err. That’s a weaponized shit-nado.
That’s what got us here dude. The shallow Hal effect on the masses.
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Quite honestly, if you want sanity in your love life, for for solid 6s. They’re good looking enough and usually not as batshit insane as 7s or higher. Of course lines blur, but I’ll take a 6 who is as down to earth as possible in these modern times as can be over women who are hot AND KNOW IT.
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Boo hiss all lies. Gun for the hottest best girls you can find. Makes you better. Don’t be a bitch. Putting a girl who is hot and knows it under your thumb is God’s work.
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lol. starting to like you better
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Look at the guy’s screen name… says it all.
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“Putting a girl who is hot and knows it under your thumb is God’s work”
God’s work indeed!
and in the words of CH himself…”One night of sex with a 10 is equal to ten years of sex with fifty 6s.” https://heartiste.wordpress.com/2008/04/24/my-first-experience-with-a-10/
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however– say you’re camping or at a wedding with no outsiders. it’s not 10s vs 6s, it’s 6s vs jerking off and while i will admit a lot of american girls are worse than masturbation, sometimes you just take what’s on your plate and enjoy it and move on.
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he he he
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All the people I know that married their first and vice versa were with 6’s and 7’s. If you want babies and family, the 6’s and 7’s probably aren’t a terrible idea.
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Yes they are. The science backs it up — when your wife is hotter, you are happier and your marriage is more likely to last. Let’s just put this lazy bullshit to rest. Right alongside ‘only dumb girls are slooooots,’ we all know this is wrong too — actually, the smart and hot chick is more likely to have slept around. Dwell in the truth weakbrahs.
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Your wife should be hot AND she should adore you. If she adores you she’ll keep herself hot. Personally I think you have a better shot at long term adoration (marriage) if you stay away from American girls who are high 9s or 10s, but YMMV.
And no, I am not bitter because I’m not a 9 or a 10. I do fine and, interestingly, I often do better than my friends who are super hot. As for why…. well, see above paragraph.
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Sure ideally. But if I had to make the choice, I’d still choose the hot chick who didn’t adore me. All I have to do is knock her up and her value drops to the point where she’ll have no other choice but to adore me 😀
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6s are the go-to anal hotspot…
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Concur
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True. I one fucked it up by using cocky game on a 30 year old who looked like a 7.5, but whom the Wall and years penetration and abandonment by alphas had left her a mental 5.5.
Such insecure -yet experienced- woman had signifncant anti-slut defences, and nexted me as I presented myself as another player ready to pump-dump her.
Instead, nice-guy game should have been used in order to give her the idea that I finally was that beta form whom she may settle, in order to obtain the bang. Downside to that type of game, is the required investment of time before sexual intercourse.
The same applies to younger 6.5-7s whom alphas had entered their body and feelings. Women of such level are picked up both by alphas and betas, and know both the desire and repulsion caused by them.
Women in the 5-6 range are actually similar to 9-10s, since they don’t know the spite of being dumped by an alpha. The former since they are too ugly to attract an alpha, the later since they are too attractive for an alpha not to commit.
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Really weird diction in this comment.
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i think we found that malaysian pilot from 370
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Israeli.
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arg the joos!
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Well, not every single one of them.
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“Women in the 5-6 range are actually similar to 9-10s, since they don’t know the spite of being dumped by an alpha. The former since they are too ugly to attract an alpha, the later since they are too attractive for an alpha not to commit.”
If a 9-10 had a high N-count, not sure if many alphas would marry her anyway.
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I am not referring to marriage, but rather to a LTR or even companionship beyond a couple of bangs. A high N-count 9 would still compel an alpha to invest a one or two months in her.
I do think that, sparring openly proud sluts, the average notch count of a 9-10 is actually similar to a 5-6, since they can be really picky, given the large amount of males available to them. The sluttiest women are actually 5.5-7s, as they can get all the betas they want, but have to (literally) open themselves to alphas in order to attract them (for a while, at least).
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Reading the problem pages in newspapers is quite revealing: for example, a (self-professed) hottie says she loses attraction for and is revolted by men immediately after sex, perpetuating a ONS lifestyle. The agony aunt of course advises sex-positive fluff like “you need to consider therapy, be open with your feelings with each new sex-partner, bla, bla, bla”. The possibility of the fornicator being a broken woman, filled with the weight of her vile transgressions, is never floated. Estrogen pill use and the probability of abortions that goes with a stratospheric notch count encourages an unhinged personality. GBFM might be on to something when he says the sexual market and vaginal value of a desouled harlot bottoms out at zero as the number of whirlwind romances climbs past 1.
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lol u saying you wouldn’t marry January Jones if she’d slept with whatever arbitrary N-count you deem high? nigga please.
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My first was a 9 and she developed vaginosis. P No more sloppy seconds, thank you very much.
Nope, I only want pussy new in the box. Wife spoiled me on that. She was a 10 new in the box. She’s from the Patriarchy. We married decades ago and she’s very prudish and it’s fun chasing her tail.
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Doubt your first was as hot as January Jones. Sorry chawlie.
…
Other than that, I’m not gonna shit on your unicorn desire. If you found it, good for you.
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“I’m not gonna shit on your unicorn desire. If you found it, good for you.”
Nice patronizing tone. I almost said, “That’s white of you.” Oops! heh
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“My first was a 9 and she developed vaginosis. P No more sloppy seconds, thank you very much.”
Vaginosis isn’t an STD.
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no but afflicted snatches smell like shit.
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more like spoiled fish–and they aren’t STD’s, Amy is correct. A chick can get vaginosis from douching followed by bareback PIV sex. It’s an indication of cuckolding.
The 9 was obviously inexperienced, doing bareback with two guys close together.
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I agree, it would be so exciting waking up next to her every morning and saying “is this the day her anus finally prolapses?”, and so beautiful watching her genital warts form on the mouths of your children.
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yes because it’s impossible to have sex with more than one person without getting an STD or ruining your anus. it’s cool, I remember when I was a virgin-adjacent too.
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The existence of the theory that the value of a woman is inversely proportional to the amount of pipe they’ve laid can’t be news to you. It has literally been around for millennia, and has been dusted down by many game bloggers in this space-age 21st C. There’s an article on this blog saying that women won’t be better after you’ve left them, for your reference. STD stands for sexually transmitted disease. The principal is that the more sexual activity one engages in, the greater the likelihood that a disease is transmitted. In the context of marriage, plenty of men won’t marry a highly notched woman, and the prospect of seeing the sins of her past, genital herpes, bear fruit on the mouths of her progeny, is one of the dissuading factors. Tony Soprano used to get a mistress to fellate him, since Carmella’s mouth was reserved for kissing the kids. Nice DHV at the end.
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It’s still pretty unlikely you’re going to catch an STD. Furthermore, we all remember the chart showing that women who are virgins are less likely to divorce than women who have had a certain amount of N. Perhaps it’s a pair bonding thing, or perhaps it’s that women who get a taste of high value men and who are forced to settle for low value men eventually grow dissatisfied and leave the low value men.
You want a virgin? Cool. You get to win by default.
‘Tony Soprano used to get a mistress to fellate him, since Carmella’s mouth was reserved for kissing the kids.’
….and?
‘The existence of the theory that the value of a woman is inversely proportional to the amount of pipe they’ve laid can’t be news to you. ‘
Oh it isn’t. I’m not even arguing with it. I’m just saying that the disparity is MAYBE worth about a point. So like, a 9 becomes an 8. If we’re going off of raw evolution, then a woman’s past, personality, etc. etc. all take a HUGE backseat to her hotness.
I mean, Brad Pitt is going to MARRY Angelina Jolie. Angelina Jolie was (is?) a notorious slore. Brad Pitt, arguably (in his prime at least) on the short list of world’s most high value men. Why would that be happening if female beauty wasn’t such a huge overriding factor?
Like I said before, choice between the 9 porn star and the 6 ‘good girl,’ I’m going with the porn star every time.
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A funny story about this springs to mind: I was at a counter talking to a doctor’s receptionist when this hot twenty-something y.o. approaches the counter. I was undergoing the typical visceral reactions to being next to an HB, when she cut in and said she had an appointment. Next thing, unprovoked, she lowered her voice to the receptionist and said “it’s for genital warts removal”. Between that and frequently witnessing hot colleagues and acquaintances whose faces are periodically eroded with sores when they have their herpes breakout, the depedestalising message is just starting to break through.
When it comes to marriage, presumably the groom has vetted the woman he’s going to be lumbered with til death, so a low N count vs a virgin mightn’t worth splitting hairs over if she’s passed a stringent character test. So yes, for lenient men, past history, personality etc take a backseat. But a 9 porn star has to ring some alarm bells in terms of marriage. Chances of infidelity and ‘drama’ are very high for the doofus who’s beguiled by a leopard who’ll struggle to change her spots. Slut-shaming women of questionable morals and having an appreciation of their lowered SMV at least serves to depedestal them, and might provoke them to buck up their ideas.
Even though I provided a fictional example of an alpha-male’s attitude towards his wife and his whores on the side, Hollywood marriages mightn’t be a great example overall. Plenty of top male stars opt for dependable 5s, by the way, which is respectable in its own right.
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‘it’s for genital warts removal”.’
Ya but this is such a common refrain. It’s right up there with ‘game only works on drunk dumb slooots.’ Like I said, the actual reality is way different.
‘So yes, for lenient men, past history, personality etc take a backseat.’
Hey whatever, at day’s end my kids are going to be of higher genetic stock than yours. Hotter chicks tend to be smarter. Experienced chicks tend to be smarter.
‘Slut-shaming women of questionable morals and having an appreciation of their lowered SMV at least serves to depedestal them, and might provoke them to buck up their ideas.’
I never said slut-shaming was generally bad. It’s just that you can’t have it both ways, brah. Either a woman’s attractiveness is >80% looks-based, or it isn’t.
‘Plenty of top male stars opt for dependable 5s, by the way, which is respectable in its own right.’
lol no it isn’t. It’s a testament to how fucking weaksauce most guys truly are. You leverage yourself and career to have access to the elite and you bitch out by going civ? E.g. Matt Damon — wtf. dat dude. You either play Darwin to the bone or you just GTFO. Hot chicks are constantly being bombarded by male attention. Shit, even the ones you think are ‘sluts’ probably are doing pretty good (sleeping with say, 10 guys, out of literally thousands of attractive men offering you all kinds of shit is pretty ok).
5 minutes of alpha worth a lifetime of beta….having a truly beautiful woman under your thumb for even a minute is worth all the ‘chaste’ plain janes in the world forever.
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Fairy nuff
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“having a truly beautiful woman under your thumb for even a minute is worth all the ‘chaste’ plain janes in the world forever.”
Chaste plain janes? Hah! A prudish pink unicorn beats a p0rnnstar all to hell. “It’s the chase, stupid.” Unicorns mate for life. But to each his own.
And when that unicorn whinnies for my d1ck…it’s ecstasy. Unicorns self-mateguard and are totally loyal. They will sh1t test out the wazoo but also give you a lot of chances to fail. They totally have to be gamed. They love to be chased, and to wrestle (sh1t tests–yours and theirs), and to dance (play lots of “fun and games” with you). They will groom you and make you sammiches.
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lean in girls lzozlozlzozozozllzozoozozozlzozozolozlzlzozlzo
http://www.cnn.com/2014/04/14/living/lean-in-for-graduates-sheryl-sandberg-schools/index.html?hpt=hp_c3
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More like “fat heifers leaning.”
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Mediocre girls will soon be in trouble…
http://www.nydailynews.com/life-style/health/doctors-implant-lab-grown-vaginas-teen-girls-article-1.1753415
Some guys would rather graft these onto their hands rather than put up with the bullshit
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The phrase “Coyote ugly’ comes to mind.
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I know why I want for Christmas!
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Just a rant on hotness and internal mindsets since the subject is up for discussion:
A 5-6 wants a guy who treats her like shit because she doesn’t believe she deserves to feel good.
A 7-8 wants a guy who treats other lesser girls like they’re shit because she’s secretly insecure deep down and needs reinforcement that she’s better than other girls so she gets off on a guy who will call a fat girl a fatty.
But a 9-10 wants the guy who makes a random 4 feel like a 10, just because he spreads value wherever he goes, because she’s above the lower-consciousness mindsets lesser girls are trapped in.
1:15 in this video is an example:
If you’re in the mindset of “only the hottest girls are worth my time/energy and deserve my attention or for me to make them feel good about themselves”, you aren’t pulling 9-10s.
For the record I fuck this up myself all the time lol because socializing is a skillset I learned late in life so for me it was “work” VS a natural social butterfly type who’s enjoyed socializing since they were a kid.
I even went thru a solid 2 year plateau where I was disgusted by half the girls at the bar and didn’t want to waste my time talking to them but would have to to wing a buddy or build some social momentum. The irony of course was that I couldn’t fake interest in the ugly girls and they would pick up on that in my subcomms and to preserve their ego they would reject me before I could reject them so then I’d be getting shot down by a girl I didn’t even want to fuck in the first place lol
It was a VERY frustrating time for me but it was an important lesson to learn about genuinely taking an interest in people and giving value rather than just going thru the motions to get what you want and viewing people as “what value will I get from investing my energy in this person, is it worth it for me?”
Now I make a conscious effort to socialize with everyone, young old guy girl ugly hot rich poor high status low status, doesn’t matter, I’ll make them feel good just because I know now that it feels good to spread good vibes. I still fall back into bad habits now and then, especially at the start of the night after I’ve been working all day and I’m not in a fun social mood, but once I’m flowing out in field I’ll talk to anyone and make them feel like a special snowflake just because I want everyone else to have a good night too.
When I’m out with a dude and he’s value-scanning the room and only half paying attention to our conversation and he won’t talk to any girls because the ones around us aren’t “good enough”, I know he’s going home alone or with a 6 at best off cold-approach (cause he won’t build the social momentum to approach hotter girls since he’s so selective) and an 8 at best from his social circle (aka warm approach), because of his mindsets.
Clooney, Pitt, Russell Brand, etc don’t screen out who’s worthy of their charm. Here’s Pitt doing some semi scripted stuff where you can tell he’s improvising parts of it and just treating everyone esp the old ppl like they’re worth his time and you can see he’s just a charismatic guy that any 9-10 watching would go “wow that’s a quality guy”:
On Mystery’s VH1 PUA show he takes the boys to a bingo hall to teach them that they should be able to use their new social skills to make everyone feel good, even people they aren’t trying to fuck.
Step 1 is learning to make people feel special.
Step 2 is enjoying making people feel special.
Step 3 is believing people are special.
A lot of guys here post with very negative judgemental attitudes toward women that give away exactly what kind of success they likely really have when they’re out.
RSDJulien puts it best…to paraphrase: if you went out to a bar tonight and there were NO hot girls there, just ugly gross fat chicks and old women and dudes, and you weren’t allowed to leave so you had to spend 4 hours there: could you still legitimately have fun and make other people have fun with you?
If the answer is no, you’ve got some internal work to do.
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There’s also the shy girls HB7’s who feel like 5’s.
Related: I always try to dance with every woman in the place except those who have passed my rejection limit. These are women who are typically a certain clique. You can be a great dancer, yet if you don’t belong to their clique, they won’t dance with you. Maybe they want some chat first, but that’s not part of dance etiquette. Or maybe it’s a class thing (working girls v. UMC guys). Some women have Oneitis towards their guy when it comes to dancing (I own one of those). Others are very shy and will only dance certain dances that they know very well.
Dancing for me is training and I don’t typically chat people up very much. I’m willing to teach beginners, including fatties and old folks, and have a good time.
Everyone has something interesting to say. It may take a little bit of digging to find it.
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I don’t know anything about dancing so I’m curious:
“Maybe they want some chat first, but that’s not part of dance etiquette.”
Is there a reason you can’t break etiquette and create your own new etiquette that you chat/flirt a bit with normal game before taking them to dance? Like my first instinct in reading this is “okay, so go open with something fun and joke around a bit and then take them to dance”…is there a reason this can’t be done in this environment (I’m assuming it’s a bar?)
“Or maybe it’s a class thing (working girls v. UMC guys).”
It IS this if this is in a guy’s head when he approaches lol They feel what you feel. If a guy is self-conscious about being whatever a UMC guy is, they’ll pick up on his sub-communications and feel “well he feels awkward about this so it must be awkward”.
My fav example I saw was a buddy I met through friends who was like, basically a bum, and like, he didn’t even try to look like he fit in in the high-end clubs we were in. His clothes didn’t fit well and I remember his pants were just the worst jeans I’ve ever seen lol, they looked like they were from high school and 2 sizes too large and just like, brutal shit in terms of fashion.
buuuut he always had a huge grin on his face and when he danced (badly, he wasn’t good at it lol) he gave no fucks about anyone’s opinion and was having the time of his life and he would go up to sets of hot girls who were objectively way out of his league and grin and hold out his hands and take them out onto the dance floor and he did this every fucking night. It was ridiculous to see, but he wasn’t self-conscious at all and the girls just felt what he felt (“you dancing with me is normal and expected”).
“Everyone has something interesting to say. It may take a little bit of digging to find it.”
I agree completely. That was one of the exercises I did when I was trying to break out of the “these ugly girls or dudes aren’t worth my time” mindset trap, was to try to find something interesting/good about every person I talked to. It really makes you realize how negatively and unfairly you may have been categorizing people from a distance.
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YaReally, you raise interesting points.
Chatting isn’t a breach of etiquette, but requiring chat is. Why would I want to submit to their cliquish rules? I have an abundance of dance partners whenever the clique is dancing.
I come from old money and lived in a WC neighborhood growing up. One of my classmates was executed for murder and another went to prison for armed robbery. I grew up fighting (I once kicked a knife out of a kid’s hand). I know WC very well.
Like I said, some WC girls are really into me and I like them, so it’s not a snobbery thing. I have a frame that smells of old money that maybe some WC girls don’t like. Maybe some WC girls _assume_ that I’m stuck up. One guy I know says that it’s a class thing. I have WC friends and chat up WC guys at the bar all night. The WC women who don’t want to dance with me saw me when I was a rank beginner at country dancing four months ago. Maybe they figure that I haven’t paid my dues yet. Also, they are excellent dancers and picky about who they dance with. Several possible explanations. Several excellent, experienced women dancers tell me that I’m an excellent dancer. As for the women in the clique–it’s their loss.
Great story about your bum dance buddy and his infectious, positive, fun attitude. Yeah, create the spark and assume the sale. It normally works for me. If I’m offering to teach someone to dance, I’m sure not gonna beg them for the privilege.
If a guy is a good dancer, a girl may 1) fear that he’ll make her look stupid by trying to lead her into something that she can’t do, 2) fear that the lead won’t enjoy dancing with her, or 3) feel inadequate and shy.
A good lead will gradually try to lead a new follow through more and more difficult steps to gauge her ability.
I deal with 2 and 3 by putting on my guy makeup (smiling, grinning, laughing) and saying beta-comfort stuff like, “Please, don’t deprive me of the pleasure of dancing with you.” And, “Dancing with beginners is one of my favorite times dancing.” Also, “You know you really want to dance with me.”
And “You know you’re gonna have a lot of fun.” And “What, do you think that I’m some kind of serial killer?” I’ll try to take their hand and shoulder and lead them onto the dance floor if they are showing any IOI’s at all, like giggling while saying, “No.” It’s not uncommon for a beginner to hug me after dancing with me. If I chatted them up more instead of teaching them, they’d probably give me a kiss on the cheek.
I could spend time chatting with someone to get them to dance, but really, dancing is training for me so if they don’t comply pretty quickly, it’s “Next!” Sometimes women will ask me to dance after they’ve initially refused my offer to dance.
As to what people have to say, sometimes I learn about people while in the process of digging out what they have to say. I may learn how to read people better, etc.
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I was gonna say, “cool story, bro” but then I kept reading. I’m bizarrely fascinated by the dancing thing cuz I don’t get it at all. It’s really foreign to me. Especially the country aspect cuz I’m in Philly. I’d be interested to hear more.
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I’ll announce when my book is ready. Dance game is very easy once you have some skill. I have no dread of doing cold approaches. Dance game helps with that a lot. It also carries over off the dance floor to daygame.
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Country dancing? Watch “Urban Cowboy.” Country is big all over the world, not just in Hicksville.
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i used to have a girlfriend who exhibited this “attitude is everything” characteristic. she was a “doctor’s kid,” went to private school, etc. we would go to “functions” and she just “fit in.” it was obvious enough that i noticed it at the time, and that was a looonngg time ago.
i’m WC background and would sometimes feel uncomfortable, and it showed. i would get “attitude bounce-back” from the staff and other patrons, but she never did. not one time. even though she often looked like she just woke up in a doorway… (i had NOOOO game….but i was still getting it from a 5…)
we would show up with her in some baggy/street person clothes (she thought poverty was “cool” at the time) and i would be dressed to fit in. she would just breeze in and “disappear” into the crowd (for lack of a better word). even though i was dressed like everybody else, i still stuck out…
until i started learning here, i didn’t realize that that attitude could be learned by application. i always thought you had to be born to it.
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Thanks Ya. Noted for future reference in regards to meeting the LTR’s guyfriends.
What are your thoughts on Arash Dibazar
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“What are your thoughts on Arash Dibazar”
I feel bad for him getting sucked into the peacocking thing so hardcore lol He reminds me of Vince Kelvin where they went too far into building their identity around their peacocking that they’re stuck with it. It’s funny to me because the early community churned out guys like this, but then years down the road we started dropping the peacocking and running game while looking normal. Now you watch RSD in-field videos and the guys are just wearing plain button-down shirts or t-shirts but they’re getting fucktons of attraction because the girls don’t REALLY care if you have face tattoos or black nails or pink streaks in your hair…all of that was just to stand out, but you can stand out through your vibe and social skills.
I don’t really know much about the guy but this doesn’t paint him in a very good light:
http://aaronsleazy.blogspot.ca/2012/08/another-example-of-pua-scammer-in-action.html
’cause despite what people think about me and my posting lots of RSD (and other popular pickup companies) videos, I’m very much against guys who pressure newbies into paying for bootcamps and makeovers and shit…part of why I post a lot of RSD is that they have literally hundreds of hours of free content up that you can just watch and learn from without paying a dime, so when I read some of the shit in a review like this about high-pressure sales tactics I get a bad taste in my mouth ’cause I know with a strong frame or tits you can convince newbie AFC guys with weak frames to do shit like sign up for a $10,000 makeover (wtf?).
So I YouTube’d the guy to check out his vibe ’cause you know, maybe he’s a badass and, well, lol:
1) having a chat with your dance students isn’t an “in-field” demonstration of a “master in action”. brb putting up an in-field video of me making my mom laugh lol c’mon now.
2) I don’t know what’s gayer, his body language with the flailing arms or the huge shit-eating grin to the camera every time he “gets away” with touching the girls or making them laugh as if to say “SEE? LOOK HOW GOOD I AM!! I touched her head!!! Look they’re laughing!!! My game is amazing!!” It’s fucking painful to watch.
3) His vibe just comes off as super reactive. The irony is that he’s basically what the original PUA community was trying to create, the “is he gay?” BFF inoffensive indirect “look I’m getting away with touching her and saying these things to her omg!!” metro-peacocky reactive-gaming hyper girl-talk-speaking PUA. But his game stayed in 2004 while the rest of the community advanced. Despite how much I say lol on here and use winky faces and shit in my txts, I come off like fucking Clint Eastwood in person compared to this guy. If you saw me in person my vibe is a lot more Hank Moody than Russell Brand. I don’t peacock or high-five girls or go “OMG like totally!!” or read their palms or bounce around or anything.
Now I’m not saying he’s not a nice dude, or that he isn’t a good teacher, I don’t fuckin’ know I’ve never met the guy. And I’m not saying he doesn’t get laid or doesn’t get hot girls, I mean he apparently runs a dance studio or something and he’s clearly good at marketing/networking and setting up photo-ops and videos with hot chick-friends social proofing him so I mean just by sheer “being surrounded by hot girls a lot” opportunities I’m sure he does alright for himself.
But I wouldn’t recommend anyone pay him a fuckin’ dime lol Maybe watch his free content, there’s probably some good stuff in there (tho I assume a lot of it is regurgitated/repackaged stuff from the rest of the community but that doesn’t mean it’s not useful or that you can’t learn from it), but I wouldn’t pay for anything, especially not a bootcamp where judging from his shit-eating “trying to impress newbies” vibe in that “in-field” video he would probably just take you to clubs where he knows all the girls and dazzle you by flirting with his own social circle of girls lol
I’d say more than anything I feel bad for the guy as a person because he seems to have jumped in with both feet early on and never got to experience that he would probably do just as good as he does now just looking like his normal self but with better internal game, but is now so permanently freakshow-peacocked-looking that he can never really go back to looking normal and experience that he didn’t really need to do any of that shit to himself to get the girls he gets…it’s kind of like Good Will Hunting where Damon is like “you dropped a hundred and fifty grand on a fuckin’ education you coulda’ got for a dollar fifty in late charges at the Public Library.”
But hey, what do I know? I’m probably drunk right now anyway lol
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lol also just noticed all his pics are the same group of girls:
This chick is the easiest to recognize:
The chick on the far right of this pic is easy to spot in all the pics too:

http://www.imcmartialarts.com/uploads/7/3/2/0/7320835/3785215.jpg?448
And the girls in this video are the same girls (watch for that second chick I pointed out at 20 seconds in, and the first chick I pointed out at 2:10 on the far right):
And I mean the girls at 1:40 in this video look captivated by his flailing arms:
Until you realize that the girl with the glass on the table in front of her at 1:43 (and 2:02) is the first girl I pointed out up above and this is just his own entourage of paid girls/models/instructors/whatever.
So I mean, he looks like a great self-promoter, and he’s got a great gimmick going for himself running some kind of chick workout class apparently and is great at hanging out with his own entourage in VIP areas and stuff…and I mean, that can totally convert to laying normal girls because yay social proof and “hey, come with me up to the VIP area and I’ll give you champaign” and all, and he understands game in general…
But I imagine this whole show is a lot more impressive to newbies who Google him and just see him in a bunch of pics with a bunch of girls and don’t realize it’s the same like 7 girls over and over and that none of them really looks like they’d fuck him…I get all sorts of “harmless BFF” vibe from their interactions. I’m sure they like him and have fun with him and he seems like a fun energetic dude to party with but it would surprise me if any of these girls would actually see him in a sexual “I’m dying to fuck him” light.
And in one of his interviews he talks about taking his students to party with his girls so they can see the girls are just normal and it “boosts their game”, which is basically what I called up above about him just showing off that he knows hot girls to impress the students and suck them into a membership.
He really just reminds me of my buddies who are like, photographers or whatever and show me a bunch of pics on their phone of all these hot girls they totally know and it’s like that’s super, she’s really hot, but are you sticking your dick in her? Because if not, I’m not really impressed lol but a newbie who can’t tell the difference between attraction spikes and legit sexual attraction would probably be impressed.
If he’s going to sell expensive bootcamps and shit, it would help his credibility to release some legit in-field footage where he’s cold-approaching and making out with random girls in venues where he doesn’t rent the VIP booth out for model parties every month, because that’s the way his students presumably will be starting out when they return to wherever they’re from after their state-boosting bootcamp.
I can’t believe I wasted a whole evening on this lol but maybe some newbie considering dropping a bunch of $ on his bootcamp will stumble across this and be able to make a less-dazzled decision.
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The fact that tatted up faggot can get those 5s to sit next to him even if he pays them proves this world is fucked.
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as an addendum to what yareally said, this is maybe even more valuable to guys just starting out. if you’re really truly terrified out there, and you just can’t get rolling forward on an evening or a getting into any groups at a bar, then being friendly and joking with all the men and women you’re not interested in will loosen you up and give you your ‘safe set’ where you can fall back if you explode in a set later. it’ll help you feel at home and help your approaches and your whole attitude. plus who knows, you might hook up with someone just for fun, and then when you do get better, it’ll serve you at the top end too (based on yeareally’s experience, not mine. i’ll admit limited 9-10 experience, but there have been a few).
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“if you’re really truly terrified out there, and you just can’t get rolling forward on an evening or a getting into any groups at a bar, then being friendly and joking with all the men and women you’re not interested in will loosen you up and give you your ‘safe set’ where you can fall back if you explode in a set later.”
100% agree and highly recommend this. I do this all the time, ESPECIALLY on solo nights but even out with buddies. Just say anything, hell, ask where the bathroom is or what time it is, fucking anything to get some momentum and teach your brain “when I talk to people I don’t get killed so it’s okay to talk to people”.
Also a lot of the time those people are nervous and shy too. One of my fav things to do is to chat up the dudes standing on death row that I can tell WANT to be social but don’t know how because they’re scared or inside their heads…I’ll cheers these guys as a hot chick walks past (“jesus, cheers to that chick’s ass, that was amazing lol”) and joke around and get them to loosen up, which in turn loosens me up, and now I have a new bar buddy for the night and a home base to come chill with if I’m feeling out of it later, and I can throw some girls at him and give him an awesome night and it’s just win/win for everyone.
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good stuff.
i will say that i save my negativity for the sphere as a bit of an blow off valve cause im so damn cherry all day. i figure this is the only place where butthurt isnt allowed or is at least addressed head on
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This is the best commentary on Heartiste’s article so far. Men who MAKE EVERYONE OR AT LEAST MOST PEOPLE FEEL GOOD ABOUT THEMSELVES GET LAID MORE ON AVERAGE THAN MEN WHO DON”T MAKE EVERYONE OR AT LEAST MOST PEOPLE FEEL GOOD ABOUT THEMSELVES. By all means, NEG AND BE GENUINELY PLEASANT TO THOSE WHO DESERVE IT AND NOT TO THOSE WHO HAVE LOST ANY RIGHT TO BE CALLED HUMAN NOT BECAUSE OF THEIR LOOKS BUT BECAUSE OF HOW THEY ACT, BUT DON’T BE SAPPY.CALIBRATE! CALIBRATE! CALIBRATE!
Another thing which is correct is that many men use ugly or mediocre women for practice to bang cuties and hotties. Tucker Max did it and so did Roosh. Both men self- admitted to banging mediocre and even ugly women in the past. Tucker Max admitted this at least as much as Roosh especially more so when banging uglies. These men also get laid more than men who only bang cuties and hottties. I have a college story to tell to illustrate this concerning 3 friends from over 20 years ago. One day they decided to have a contest to see who could bang the most women in a week. The SMV desirable handsome man with the the big dick stuck to mediocrities, cuties and hotties and lost. The somewhat ugly man with an average sized dick scored in the middle by banging uglies, mediocrities, cuties and hotties. The ugly creepy man with a small dick went for untouchables, uglies, mediocrities, cuties and hotties and he won the contest. For as horrifying as it is to say this, dumpster diving and being a trash dick pays off more for getting your dick wet on average than having higher standards. By the way, the creepy ugly man with a small dick got just as many hotties and cuties as the SMV desirable handsome man with a big dick. The Somewhat ugly man got less hotties than both, but more women than the SMV desirable man overall. The other thing to note is that the ugly creepy man with the small dick was extremely PERSISTENT in a way I’ve never seen any man be when it comes to pursuing women; and, women would bring him home to meet their mother, go to the toilet to shit, only to return horrified to watch this same man flirting with their mother. The ugly creepy man had no standards when itz came to banging women as far as I could tell.
YaReally is offering solid advice here. Maybe the proprieters will let this into Winner for Commentary articles. Maybe Heartiste will explain why better than I could. Constructive criticism is welcomed to what I have written here on my commentary and YaReally’s commentary as well.
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@YaReally the one reason I game 5’s and 6’s in my social circle is 1) practice and 2) depending on who it is…to build orbiters 3) build competitive anxiety.
My crazy hot ex gf had previously said she was jealous that I would dance and chat with other girls and not her.
So here was a smoking hot babe wondering why I was having such a good time with women below her in SMV.
It hadn’t occurred to me then but in light of this post and what has happened it was a strategic move on my part not a tactical one.
Now I deliberately game the “cuties” because it’s great practice and they beam. Then I can get them to do stuff for my events and projects: help set up, bake stuff, work on the door etc etc.
The question hotties would ask is why are these girls doing this????
Then your own value goes up. As long as you don’t look like you’re banging them or dumpster diving, this can work to build up your SMV.by making you appear sociable, fun, attractive.
From a self-serving perspective, the more comfortable you get with girls….the better you get at gaming the hot ones.
It’s a bit like the driving range…doesn’t matter where you hit the ball as long as you hit it…when you get on the course, then it matters but how you’ve practiced on the driving range will determine your handicap.
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“As long as you don’t look like you’re banging them or dumpster diving, this can work to build up your SMV.by making you appear sociable, fun, attractive.”
Right, I probably should’ve mentioned: you don’t have to FUCK these undesirable girls lol Or make people think you are or would. You just make them feel good and move on. If you’re actually like raunchy making out with a 4 in the bar you’re going to drop your value with the hot girls. But you can joke around and tease and spike their Buying Temperature and make them giggle and love you…the hotter girls KNOW you wouldn’t REALLY fuck that girl because to her you’re clearly too high value to really MEAN it even if the 4 thinks you might (like no one sees that Alfie clip and thinks he’s actually trying to bang the old chick). So if you go and take it too far then that hotter girl is like “oh, i guess he’s NOT that high value, I thought he was just fucking around but he actually thinks he only deserves her.”
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^This. I’d like to talk to hotter girls. But I get someplace, my anxiety kicks in and I end up talking with the 5-6s most of the time, b/c I think too much, get +/- scared and then just avoid it.
Most of the time I do open or even talk to a girl who’s a 7+, it’s entirely accidental idiot-savantism.
.
+ If I see a 5-6 1x at a bar & talk, it’s not too bad. The ones I see regularly are the ones that go mad when you don’t get on their schedule.
I’d love to get close to where you are some day, so that All of it works much better; hopefully with the Everyone staying both social and happy, regardless of where they’re at.
But so far, had too many of the temper-tantrum 5-6s. -Probably b/c I’m too anxious to approach the 7+ and set the SMV frame.
Oh well, good words as ususal, Ya.
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What really helped me and started getting me more results was to take pressure off of myself. I know it sounds counter-intuitive, but….I focused less on trying to come off like a player/pimp/whatever and instead focused on just trying to have fun with whoever I was with. Not even necessarily getting laid…like maybe take a number and hang out but nothing too aggressive.
When I let go and started doing that, -that’s- when more girls started thinking I was a player/pimp lol. Take the pressure off yourself. That’s really what outcome independence is all about. You don’t have to fuck this or that chick you’re talking to to have a good interaction. Just try to add value wherever you go and opportunities will start presenting themselves.
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Pretty good advice. I’ve never heard Outcome-Independence explained in exactly that way before.
Thank You!
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“Now I deliberately game the “cuties” because it’s great practice and they beam.”
Yeah, be careful with that. I gamed my private dance instructor and she expected fun and games to follow despite my assurances that that was not on the table. All I wanted was some extra free dance instruction time, which she gave because she wasn’t worried about how long the lesson took. She was enjoying being with me. Ballroom dancing is a contact sport. And I wasn’t taking money out of her pocket since there wasn’t another student booked right after me.
Women believe their feelings more than a man’s statements.
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Man, that’s kinda cruel to game the poor bitch but then to NOT give her the cock.
Getting kinda evil, actually.
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@Zombie…ya…kind of like what girls normally do.
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Very catty, feminine behavior.
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You bring up an interesting question, Shane. DI knew that I was married. She wanted to be friends. (Here, she was gaming me. Making friends of students is good for business.) I assumed that that meant without benefits and I think that that was her initial intention. We’d chat while we danced and exchanged chatty emails some. Got to know each other a bit, gradually. There was a fair amount of rapport. I took lessons frequently to get ready for a performance and once I felt like I was looking forward too much to dancing with the DI–I knew that oxytocin was kicking in, so I fought it. She probably had some kicking in, too. We had a platonic friendship as part of our relationship. None of this was related to me gaming her. However, I didn’t understand how this stuff would magnify the impact of even light game.
I used very light game. Terse comments in emails, flaking, joking, teasing. No text messaging or sexualization. (Dancing is inherently sexual to some degree because of lead/follow, kino, and partners’ faces being close together.) I flirted (G-rated stuff) within the context of dancing a choreographed romantic dance, where chemistry would help. Problems occurred when I didn’t understand the dance instruction business (dance instructors _really_ like the opposite sex or both sexes) and mistaking a girlie-girl for a tomboy. She gave the impression that she was a tomboy, but really was a girlie-girl emotionally.
Not using game would be very un-natural for me, if you get my meaning. I would be constantly giving off an awkward vibe.
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YR, everthing you’ve described comes naturally to me.
That’s the easy stuff.
What I can’t do is the fullblown sociopath shit – going completely nihilistic and breaking her soul and then dumping her and never again giving her so much as another single thought.
I always feel sorry for my bitches.
[Cue the h8ters – “Blah blah blah… but they WANT to be treated like that… blah blah blah…”]
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you don’t have to not give her a single thought she can even know you think about her all the time she can know you have oneititis for her but the key is none of that shit you feel or the love matters compared to a decision you make that is what is unshakable which is how you get the respect cause she knows no matter how much you love her bla bla if it is not right it ain’t enough
and dam im on another planet lol not sleepin just fuckin hahahahahahah
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“What I can’t do is the fullblown sociopath shit – going completely nihilistic and breaking her soul and then dumping her and never again giving her so much as another single thought.”
…sooooo don’t do that? Not sure what response you expected lol “c’mon bro it’s super cool to crush their soul fuck these bitches lololllz!!!”? Leave em better than you found em. No soul-destroying is necessary.
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I find it hard to believe none of these girls you sleep with on a regular basis get attached. I’m not blaming you for it, it’s just a fact. I’d get attached to anyone I’m having sex with on a regular basis. For most girls this just happens whether you like it or not.
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“I find it hard to believe none of these girls you sleep with on a regular basis get attached.”
They often do, because I’m awesome and a good lay and like to cuddle after lol
But I take every step possible to 1) make that happen as slowly as possible and ideally not happen at all, 2) snuff it out as soon as I notice the first inklings of it rather than soak up the validation of getting laid and let them develop full blown hardcore feelings for me.
It’s pretty much inevitable (except with specific types of girls and specific situations) because that’s just the nature of sex, oxytocin and all that shit…but I do what I can to avoid it.
If you fuck a girl daily, and spend time cuddling and shit with her and like, go out for a movie and have some dates where you don’t have sex etc., esp if she isn’t seeing anyone else and she knows you aren’t seeing anyone else and you let her think you’d be a good provider etc., she’s going to fall in love FAST. Like within a week or two of this shit.
But if you fuck her every week or two at the most, and when you hang out it’s purely about sex, you grab her when you open your door and pin her against the wall and start escalating to sex, and after some basic cuddling after the bang or after a next-morning bang, you send her home instead of going to breakfast and hanging out and shit, and she knows you had another girl there the night before and she thinks you make fuck all for money and hate children and marriage and relationships etc. and maybe she even has a boyfriend or husband, and the time she tried to come over and just cuddle and watch movies and NOT have sex you called her a cab to send her home instead of letting her hang out and not bang, etc. you can slow things up considerably. It could take her anywhere from 3-6 months to get to the same point the other girl got to.
And if the first time she suggests “how about we go for dinner tonight first?” or “let’s go watch a movie together” or “I want you to meet my friends, I’ve told them all about you”, you end things (or dramatically reduce how often you see her, down to like once a month…or take a few months break, etc.), then you’re out of there before she gets a chance to fall too hard for you and you do minimal damage to her (VS cutting her off down the road when she’s madly in love).
The reason most guys can’t do this is because:
1) it takes self-control, because you have to actively turn down sex (since she’ll want to fuck multiple times a week and will make it VERY convincing to do so) and be able to voluntarily give up a source of sex…most guys can’t do this and end up caving on the “rules” and letting her get attached because they want the sex too bad to tell her no when she wants to come over at 2am on a Saturday night in lingerie and blow them.
2) it requires an abundance mentality, and most guys live in scarcity. They get a fuckbuddy or two and then stop going out and their game atrophies and they get complacent with the easy sex of having FBs and they won’t turn down the sex because they don’t have other options and view meeting new girls as “work”, so they take the easy route and just let the girl come over or go on the date with her that she wants or hang out with her friends a few times so they can get laid and boom, the girl ends up in love and they end up hurting her.
You don’t have to cut them out in an asshole way, you can just say “sorry babe I’m super busy with work right now” or “my ex and I have been talking and we’re going to give things another try, sorry babe” etc. and let them down easy, it’s no big deal when they’re still at the first stage or two of falling for you. Sometimes all they need is a few months break from you to let the feelings die down and then you can bang again, or sometimes you never get to hang out with them again, it’s a case by case thing.
The reason this description generally sounds unappealing to girls is because it’s taking control of the relationship away from them and not allowing them to get what they want when they want it lol Girls aren’t used to guys being able to say “no, you can’t come over tonight. Once a week is the rule. We’ll hang out next thursday.” and ignore them throwing their vagina at them because they’re used to getting their way.
But if a guy can actually develop enough of an abundance mentality to follow the rules, he can have fairly long casual fuckbuddy relationships where the girl doesn’t get hurt and often isn’t even banging other guys (this is where the being a good lay part comes in lol if you’re a shitty lay then ya she’ll go fuck other guys, but if you’re good at it she’d rather wait for your cock than a lamer one and having to wait a week or two isn’t that bad for her esp if you sext her now and then and keep her turned on thinking about the next bang).
My average FB lasts about 3 months before I have to cut things off, but most of those girls I can still txt a year later and they’ll happily meet up for some no-strings fun because we had a good time together and I made sure not to let them get too attached to me. My longest bang-every-week casual fuckbuddy was 8 months and neither of us got attached because I had a GF and she was engaged and we only really ended things because her wedding was approaching and she started feeling guilty because she decided she should try to be a good wife.
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So basically she gets attached, but you cut it off before she gets *too* attached. Still not sure how any of this is “leaving them better than you find them”. The bottom line is, the girls will get attached, and breaking attachments involves pain. You’re just prolonging the inevitable so you can enjoy yourself. Not that it’s necessarily your problem, as long as you’re honest– we all have free will– but that doesn’t mean you’ve earned “improvement” bragging rights across the board.
As for honesty… I guess I can assume you only deal w girls who have sex with you immediately vs. getting numbers and meeting up in date like settings and spending time w the girl before having sex with her. Or, if you do do that, that you make it clear you are looking for a FWB/FB and not a RL before she sleeps with you. Right?
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Amy, why isn’t there a bun in your oven yet?
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Sure as hell don’t ruin their plumbing by giving them PID.
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Two points:
1) Even before I became a natalist, I just couldn’t stand it when the poor bitches would start crying on me. It got so bad that I took to messing around only with the very most aggressive bitches because I could always tell myself that she – the aggressive one – had initiated the relationship in the first place, so that when it came time for me to move on, she had only herself to blame.
Because I just couldn’t stand the thought of breaking a nice girl’s heart.
2) Not to get all bible thumper on you, but now that I FINALLY understand why God gave us our sexuality, I think back on all the chicks I dated, and for a good half or three quarters of them, I now realize [in retrospect] that I would have been more than happy to have had kids with them. And then I get to wondering how many of them grew old, and lonely, and became spinsters, with barren wombs, living all alone in their apartments filled with cats.
When instead their apartments could have been filled with human children.
Moving forward, I’ll only be collecting notches on the bedpost as SISTER WIVES bearing my children.
My days of purposeless fornication are over.
At least I hope so.
From now on, I want all my bitches’ bellies getting bloated.
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lets get sane now every dude I know but me pays child support
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“I just couldn’t stand it when the poor bitches would start crying on me”
They don’t cry on me. Why? You’ll see when my reply to Amy gets out of moderation…you’re one of the guys I’m describing when I describe how guys fuck up the “rules” and end up hurting the girls. You let them get attached and let that attachment develop too deep, I cut them off sooner so they don’t get hurt like that. It’s not easy, but I don’t like making girls cry so I follow the rules lol
“From now on, I want all my bitches’ bellies getting bloated.”
Shit, want to send me some of your millions of dollars you’ll be spending on child support for your army of baby Shanes? Thx
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> “Shit, want to send me some of your millions of dollars you’ll be spending on child support for your army of baby Shanes? Thx”
But that’s got to be the next step in your journey as a Real Man.
Up your Game to the point that, even after you’ve become a couple, your woman [resp. womynz for the polygamists] will want to stay with you forever, and accomplish nothing more for the rest of her life [resp. their lives] other than pushing out your babies.
So that she is so smitten with you that she would never even dream of moving out and hiring a family law attorney-ette femcunt bulldyke to sue you.
In the final analysis, that’s the only truly useful, constructive, purposeful role for Game to play in our lives – to get us plenty of live births of children and to hold together our families in the face of this relentless onslaught on the part of the Frankfurt School to destroy and annihilate and eradicate us.
At the end of the day, all the other uses of Game are just exercises in pure unadulterated sociopathic nihilism.
Just as the Frankfurt School would have it.
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If you are a cool guy + decent fuck + see her more than a week she will love you and after a fairly short amount of time want to have your kids. It really isn’t a matter of ‘upping’ the game. It’s just a matter of responsibility. Just because she’s hot doesn’t mean you want to have kids with her.
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just remember…every chick has a rape fantasy involving a homeless man. heh
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‘That’s the easy stuff.’
Is it, Shane? Is it, really?
I don’t think this stuff is easy in the proper context — girls who are smoking hot. I’m sure it comes naturally to you with girls who are beneath you looks-wise, tho.
‘What I can’t do is the fullblown sociopath shit ‘
You don’t have to do that stuff. In fact, you don’t have to be mean at all.
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“You don’t have to do that stuff. In fact, you don’t have to be mean at all.”
❤
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> “I don’t think this stuff is easy in the proper context — girls who are smoking hot.”
Dude, I can talk to ANYONE.
Conversationalism is my specialty.
It’s digging in the shiv which is tough for me.
Particularly if I feel at all sorry for the poor girl [or the poor guy, for that matter].
Now if I get angry, on the other hand, then out comes the shiv, and the verbal devastation.
But digging in the shiv when I’m calm and in a good mood?
I file that under the category of sociopathy – getting all shivly nihilistic on someone but at the same time retaining the amused mastery and aloofness.
My “nice guy” genes just kick in at the last moment and stop me from going through with it.
I’d have to learn to fake that – fake it until I make it – and I’m more than a little worried about the toll which “making it” would take on my personality.
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‘It’s digging in the shiv which is tough for me.’
Why do you need to ‘dig in the shiv?’ and what do you mean by that?
It’s coming off like you want to be mean for the sake of being mean.
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“But a 9-10 wants the guy who makes a random 4 feel like a 10, just because he spreads value wherever he goes, because she’s above the lower-consciousness mindsets lesser girls are trapped in.”
A woman who’s above the lower-consciousness mindset = a skittle-shitting Unicorn.
Every great spiritual practitioner who attained higher consciousness (activates your mirror neurons to bring you to his level) was a MAN.
A HB9 has the same evolutionary hamster as an obese 3 and they all hate when a guy gives away his energy indiscriminantly. She wants that energy focused on activities and people that will help her climb the ladder. Every fiber of her being despises nice (making a 4 feel like a 10) unless it’s advancing her goals. Lose focus or go beta nice chump for too long and she will drop you in a heartbeat and never look back.
“Step 3 is believing people are special.”
The VAST majority of people are not special and unique snowflakes. Herd/tribe/band mentality dictates it. Pre-neolithic life was short and brutal and outliers did not survive. Spend more than a few hours bullshitting with these bleating sheep at the bar and this will become glaringly obvious.
Deep down most people know they are absolutely mediocre, hence their unending need to “differentiate” themselves by buying homogenized, mass-produced things like cars, phones or whatever the advertisers told them will make their meaningless lives better.
Treating them like they are special = treating a fat 4 like she’s a HB9. They know you are shining them on and after the novelty wears off they will resent you for it. Politicians stumping in hickton comes to mind.
“It was a VERY frustrating time for me but it was an important lesson to learn about genuinely taking an interest in people and giving value rather than just going thru the motions to get what you want and viewing people as “what value will I get from investing my energy in this person, is it worth it for me?”
Extroverts NEED to socialize to recharge. There have been a few studies confirming that humans are indeed motivated above all by self-interest.
In terms of internal mindset, many guys would do much better by spending less time in bars wasting their breath with mediocre people that have nothing better to do than drink and bullshit and “have fun” and more time pursuing exellence in any number of areas that require dedication, concentration and self-discipline otherwise known as some of the things that make a man a man (and that are wet-pussy attractive to a woman).
“A lot of guys here post with very negative judgemental attitudes toward women that give away exactly what kind of success they likely really have when they’re out.”
Women are base. Hypergamy is fact. Ignore at your own risk.
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‘Every fiber of her being despises nice’
Untrue because largesse is a sign of high value. Only those who can afford to give can give. You’re confusing generosity with weakness.
‘The VAST majority of people are not special and unique snowflakes. ‘
Ok….
let’s say you have ultimate value at your HS as the star QB. Let’s say as star QB you take the time to talk to lower value individuals and OCCASIONALLY offer them some type of access to your life. Who gives a shit if these people are low value/not special? Maybe the value you give them will change their lives and motivate them. For sure tho everyone will like you more.
‘there have been a few studies confirming that humans are indeed motivated above all by self-interest.’
It’s in your personal interest to spread and give value tho.
‘spending less time in bars wasting their breath with mediocre people that have nothing better to do than drink and bullshit and “have fun” and more time pursuing exellence in any number of areas that require dedication, concentration and self-discipline otherwise known as some of the things that make a man a man’
It’s very easy to do both of these things. For example, on a night where I’m not chilling with a girl…I put in a full day at work, fight/spar from 6-730, lift from 745-830, shower and roll to hang out at 9. There are a lot of hours in the day.
‘Women are base. Hypergamy is fact. Ignore at your own risk.’
No one is ignoring hypergamy.
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My whole life I’ve been able to see the good in everyone. Like Shallow Hal when he can’t see how flawed people are. Many time I just didn’t stop at the “make them feel good and move on” part. My dick saw little difference in the softness and wetness and fun of a 7’s pussy compared to a 9’s. So many great memories of these 7s that many would have passed on. And when you get old, you’ll wish you had more memories to fill your days with. Aim high … but empty the chamber if you go to the range.
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I call them “hamburger hos”. They can be great in a pinch, but a staple of your stable they are not.
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[…] By CH […]
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Chateau. I thank to God every day for this source of enlightment. Ive been having a huge, almost exponential learning curve. Now I can even score absolutetly hot chicks. The only problem is, being acustomed to porn and hookers, I have no confidence on my sexual perfomance. I took this girl to my house and spend two days with her, the sex was lame and i was even able to get exited with this absolutely hot hot girl naked in my bed. Now this girl who was really into me is saying we dont “connect”(that would be my senseless cock and her sweet pussy). I know this isn the end of the world, and im about to tattoo the word “abundance” on my left arm. but, what can I do? how can I improve my sexual confidence? this would be about the 3rd time this happens since my new found way of life towards pussy.
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Stay away from porn and hookers, altogether. It’s easier said than done, but it’s not impossible. They’re poisonous to your masculine instinct of hunting for a mate because they both ruin your ability to develop a strong sense of self-confidence. Why try when you can get off at the click of a button? Should I even bother gaming this girl when a call girl is just a phone call away? This defeatist mentality is killing your sexual confidence because you’re choosing to cheat your predatory instincts as a man by foregoing the necessary work involved in self-improvement. Work out, step up your finance game, and develop yourself holistically so that you’re not just a one-dimensional man, but instead, a multifaceted enigma. Remember: If you don’t want to do the work, don’t expect things to change.
Stop relying on crutches to hobble around the sexual marketplace when you know you’re fully capable of strutting confidently on your own two feet. When you do, you’ll naturally be able to connect with people, and they will intuitively sense that you’re coming from a place of genuine interest, instead of a value-leeching sense of utility.
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Trollolol
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i stopped watching porn…when your watching gangbangs and all sorts of crazy shit your brain gets used to that and then vanilla sex with a real girl wont turn you on that much…
after 2 months of no porn you should be back to normal
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> “The only problem is, being acustomed to porn and hookers, I have no confidence on my sexual perfomance.”
If you can’t summon up the courage to ask the girl you’re with, then hire an old hooker friend to teach you how to massage a clitoris with your finger, and also how to get the head of your erection just behind her tail bone, so that the head of your erection is massaging her G-Spot [while your finger is massaging her clitoris].
Practice making your hooker friend cum.
And tell her no faking it.
Tell her that you’ll pay her extra if she promises you that they are real orgasms, not fakes.
BTW, you should be able to feel her vagina contract and expand and go into all sorts of spasms when she really cums. I suppose that it might be possible for her to fake the muscular undulations, but I don’t know how she’d fake the flow of moisture which cums from a real female orgasm.
Also, you could pay your hooker friend even more if she will teach you how to be a good kisser – to get a really good gentle soothing technique on your French kissing.
Finally, learn to hold your load so that you can cum with your woman when she cums.
It takes supreme self-control, but it can be done.
And eventually you will get so good at it that you can make your woman cum almost forever – four or five times with the hornier bitches – before you finally decide to call it a night and cum with her.
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> “just behind her tail bone”
YIKES!!!
I meant to say, “just behind her PUBIC bone”.
Sorry, I didn’t mean to sound like Andrew Sullivan or that Greg Gutfeld on The Five.
LOL’ed.
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Try taking control more, even subtle stuff like tugging a girls head back with her hair just before you make out with her will amp up that connection, you still need that masculine frame prior but it cements things subtly. After that throatfuck her. J/k, Sounds like you’re not coming from the frame of you’re the beast and her the beauty? Are you interacting as equals or is it already clear who’s boss? My 2 pence worth is she wanted a harder dicking than you gave.
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Another good thing about banging mediocre bitches is that they’re less enthralled by social networks than fine hos. Make no mistake, even a cute girl will get a rush out of it but it doesn’t pose as much of a problem as if it were a fine ho you’re trying to bang. I suppose it has to do with the 8-9s getting a massive charge out of their likes and the comments they get by posting the most mundane shit. They always know the world has their back in a way, so they’re more careless about it all.
I’ll share a quick story on this. A friend introduced me to a group of girls at a house party. He left but I stayed because I felt like they had an inviting vibe about them. I wanted to see if I was right. They were chattering away about something on their phones and they took selfies like there was no tomorrow. I asked if they’re always this vain (thanks to heartiste for this one) and the finest girl said, “Not really. I mean, sometimes. We’re on instagram straight flexin lol.”
“Pfft, you probably have like 100 followers. My little niece has more.”
“Nuh uh! Look.”
I take a look at the screen and I see 25k+ followers. She even showed me the selfie she took a little over 5 minutes ago and it already had 100+ likes.
It’s a constant wave of gratification for hot girls.
An average ho will check her phone maybe once or twice an hour when you’re around. A fine ho will do that every 20-30 minutes unless you shame her for doing so. And even then, she’ll do it on the sly.
No doubt, we’re living in interesting times.
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Flaw game. Point out the shortcomings that keep them below the attractive threshold. Conversely, point out the pros that keep them in fuckable territory.
“You’d be a lot cuter if only your (feature) was (improvement)…”
“You’re lucky you’re skinny/blonde/etc., otherwise I wouldn’t..”
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This has to be done after a lot of rapport is built. It’s waaaay too tryhard when in the initial stages.
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As a 3, why would I want to waste my time on 5s and 6s when I can jerk off to 10s in porn?
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Eugenically speaking, we should all hope that you don’t. Do you want to have children who have your faults?
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nope no desire for kids, kids cost money and resources that i can use on my own pleasure
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So what’s the problem, Mr Nihilist?
Go back to your porn.
Porn is Nihilism Central.
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But isn’t nihilism an appropriate mindset for the nothings?
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Everyone deserves a chance at salvation.
I mean, for the sake of goodness, think about who your namesake was – a God-damned IRS agent for Caesar.
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Speaking of mediocre girls, why does the Dating Market Value Test for Women not include level of sluttery? Strong omission. As the “what makes a good girlfriend” post makes clear, “don’t be a foul slut” is very high up on the list impacting a woman’s SMV.
Sluttiness is just next to fatness in its power to erode a woman’s value. A fat slut is a lower beta, a fat old slut is an omega.
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I thought this was supposed to be an intellectual blog
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Go fuck yourself.
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a 5’8 small framed guy can hardly be a 6, the female equivalent of that, a 5’3 kinda androgynous bodied girl can easily be a 7 or even a 8. you can see that for a lot of female celebrities from Natalie Portman to Emma Watson or Olivia Thirlby, better remind this because even in the Redpill subreddit I read quite a few people underestimating the difference in the SMP between women and men in their prime based on looks only. totally blue pill delusion.
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passing on a great counter AMOG (that apparently I did at that party and was awesome)
Specific situ all guys probably fear — the ex (or at least someone who has boned who you’re boning now)
AMOG: Yeah, so did 8 tell you that me and her used to hook up, man?
Me: Huh…? (important part of it)
AMOG: Hahaha, yeah man…..we used to smash.
Me: (long pause)….so…a girl had sex with you? Nice job, bro. (said quizzically….this reframe is so strong that the entire group should come to your side and laugh)
AMOG: Yeah we fucked and she loved it
Me: ….so a girl had sex with you, and actually liked it? (I had the benefit of her leaning over while rubbing my chest saying ‘not really’) You’re the king of the world. I’m glad I could help quench your thirst, bro.
Worked great for me, hope it works for anyone else who has to use it.
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Where is warpig when you need her? She can explain how to game negative ones. Maybe her little dicked Israeli shemale can chime in a “yes, dear” when she starts screaming at decibels too high for humans to hear.
Throwback rape!
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“she starts screaming at decibels too high for humans to hear.”
That’s when the neighborhood dogs start howling.
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Even 5’s seem out of the realm of possibility for me. Despite being mid-20’s and ripped, I can only get obese hogs and the odd ugly black chick. At least in America.
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Learn ballroom and country dancing. Learn it well.
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Field Report: The joke was on me
I approached a table of about seven women—thirty-somethings—and asked if any of them knew how to dance. A pretty little blonde said, “I don’t know how, but I’d like to learn.” So I taught her the basic step, which she picked up immediately. So I introduced gradually more difficult steps as we danced, which she also picked up very fast. She had a little trouble following sometimes, but generally did extremely well. I took her through some intermediate steps and she also was able to do them. I suspected that she was giving me a shit test, so when I took her back to her table I challenged her about it. “You’re not a beginning dancer, are you?” One of her friends shouted, “She’s a dance teacher.” So I asked her about it and she admitted that she taught ballet, tap, and jazz. So I called her out about being a cheater, laughing. She laughed, too, and so did all her friends. Then I gave her a nickname, “the Ringer.” She accepted it gracefully. Submissive. Nice. So I asked her to dance again and taught her a choreographed couples dance and one of its variations, which she learned very quickly as well. That experience with the blonde, including her joke on me, was sooo much fun!
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sounds good bro
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Ya, I _really_ hate women, the biatches. I hated this chick so much that I put my hand on her hip and leaned my arm against her tummy while we danced. Yum. She was diggin’ the way that I “despised” her with my hand and arm, too. heh
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You speak as if you actually like women and their shenanigans. How bizarre. As everyone knows, we must despise them and hold them in contempt if ever we are to attain their love.
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“terse and practical less the Delaclosian rococo faffery of the bored urban petit-bourgeois.”
come again?
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Yeah, I think he had a writing-gasm.
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At a gathering of old friends this Saturday. Some tall I.T. dork says to me and her, “Are you guys in a relationship?”
I said,”We just met.” She said,; “I was just a hitch hiker”” Then she starting chanting the best lines from Hunter S Thompsons “Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas.” Because She actually reads and memorizes the books I throw her way.
She loves shouting out that the final, horrible truth is that WE are not guilty.
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@CH you should do a post on the sexual/hypergamous stages of a woman’s life. And then break down and analyze the “party stage” and how to interact with your girl and keep her tied to you when she is in her “party years”. This is the age group of girls that most likely need the best and tightest game so some examples or analysis on that specific group would be a good chapter to have
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what’s your email
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go to rollo tomassi at rationalmale he has just done a four part series on this.
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He has good stuff, although it’s rather long-winded for my taste.
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Between age 19 and 27 she *will* move on to the next cock on her cock carousel ride. There is no stopping it.
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Be a cool guy, be a good fuck, see her more than once a week = she will love you. Really not so difficult…
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@anon from what I’ve observed this is what seems to happen. It seems inevitable for an 18-26ish girl to ride from one cock to another through her party years. Some more than others. But you still see this carousel.
And @Scray: “be a cool guy, be a good fuck, see her more than once a week = she will love you”. That is way too simple. Genuinely unsure if you are truly saying this and mean it or not. What about the classic “i’m bored and not having fun in this relationship”…
SO @CH: High SMV girls in their party years are usually off limits for getting monogamous with. However, I think in rare cases it is safe to become monogamous but there are signs when this is the case. WHAT ARE THE SIGNS? I’m confused
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We always emphasize how women communicate covertly. This is one of those cases
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‘That is way too simple. Genuinely unsure if you are truly saying this and mean it or not. What about the classic’
Ya, because it -is- that simple.
‘What about the classic “i’m bored and not having fun in this relationship’
Probably because you stopped being a) a cool guy (FYI being a reactive needy bitch != cool guy), b) a good fuck (FYI fucking her the same way all the time != a good fuck)
I guarantee that if you kept your life the SAME as it was when you met her — talking to girls, being fun and attractive — she won’t stop loving you or get bored.
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However, I think in rare cases it is safe to become monogamous but there are signs when this is the case. WHAT ARE THE SIGNS? I’m confused
If she starts acting like a 30 y.o. woman who’s on a husband-hunt and running into the Wall, hinting at marriage and otherwise getting serious, despite being a healthy, reasonably sane 21 y.o. HB8.
Otherwise, if she considers you her boyfriend to bring around to parties and take lots of selfies with, but is not looking for anything serious, don’t treat her seriously.
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Have a similar question to Grim above.
Recently completed my MBA at a Euro University. Quite intense program and my focus was really accelerating my career path in the right direction (making connections, building networks with other students and employers) so not much real time to game. At the same time, I had a fuckbuddy in another city about 1 hours flight away, who I saw about once a month, a stayover from a long ago backpacking trip around Europe.
I’m still developing but a bit older and more experienced than the others – I am tall, well built, talked slowly, displayed value in class and work projects, only occasionally smiled, said only what needed to be said, etc.
I am introverted and naturally aloof and was cool and casual with most girls and generally only engaged them when I felt like it. After gradually absorbing the red pill, I could definitely see the behaviour of most of the guys in a different light (obseqiousness, supplicating), seeking out the women almost like puppy dogs. I’m definitely not at the point of completely internalising but I am putting the pieces together.
My question relates to a scenario that happened several times as follows or with slight variations:
* enter social situation of guys and girls
* some of the girls automatically cross/re-cross legs, straighten posture up, play with hair. Some of them eye-spazz
* During conversation they get flustered and randomly blurt out things such as “i have a boyfriend” completely out of context to the conversation. Bear in mind I have genuinely displayed zero active interest (for years I have been told how difficult I am to read). Then the kicker:
*In most cases (thanks to Facebook) I was aware that they actually had a boyfriend. They would try to lure me into joining her and her boyfriend for drinks under the pretense of a group event, or lure me to pub to watch football (the group including her boyfriend), or try to get me to join her at a party with her beta orbiters, or get me to ask her for her private email address. And they are not trying this on other guys actively showing interest in them.
What’s the deal? Is this exactly like Grim’s situation? Is it Rapo/ego game? Are they trying to get a better handle on my credentials?
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Sometime dealing with self-esteem issues of mediocre girls is more annoying/difficult/resource consuming in a macro sense than dealing with verbal feints and parries that hotter girls like. Or maybe it’s just me.
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my girl is laying beside me says I need cuddles
so im like allright baby
she like oh yea yeaaa baby I love you cuddling me
im like hold up I pick her up put her in my lap hold her like a baby and shit
she just keeps saying I love you so much you make me so happy im the happiest woman in the world
kissing her
she starts crying saying I love you so much
tells me loves me like 300 times
tears comin down
she like tears of joy
I talk all cute to her our own language stuff
she like yur my movie star my man I dream about all the time
it was hot
a moment like fuck dude felt that shit
was nice
really just getting her there almost to the point of anything so close its beautiful
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Two words: oxytocin dependency
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The details of what is going on — the vole story, as it were — is a fascinating one. When prairie voles have sex, two hormones called oxytocin and vasopressin are released. If the release of these hormones is blocked, prairie-voles’ sex becomes a fleeting affair, like that normally enjoyed by their rakish montane cousins. Conversely, if prairie voles are given an injection of the hormones, but prevented from having sex, they will still form a preference for their chosen partner. In other words, researchers can make prairie voles fall in love — or whatever the vole equivalent of this is — with an injection. ”””””””””’
lol wtf
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???
Not sure about the voles.
But if the comment up there was serious – about the girl who told you she loved you – then DUDE: YOU NEED TO PUT SOME BUNS IN THAT OVEN.
Don’t fuck up a good thing, man.
Seal the deal for all eternity by entering with her into the Tree of Life.
SRSLY.
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just looked up the oxytocin in comment pasted some of report was interesting but she is on ovulation but yea if I ain’t had a kid yet not havin one prob
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chick I been seeing on off almost two years
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DUDE – SEAL THE DEAL!!!
God doesn’t send chicks like that your way every day.
Or even every year.
Or even every DECADE!
If you fuck this up, then you might spend the rest of your life trying to recreate the chemistry which you had with that chick, but end up failing miserably in your search for finding it again.
PS: And by “seal the deal”, I’m not talking about any marital legalistic horseshit.
I’m talking about getting live births out of her.
You can talk about the marital legalistic nonsense after she’s proved her worth by giving you four or five children.
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zombie my skill is finding soulmates I got one for sure right now and this one but yea she ain’t even passed the tests yet yea its all good but I’ve had the best so yea
two chicks for me In the afterlife thought to hang with married for eternity so yea i’m not worried so much bout this one he he he
just need to pump that up to 7 soulmates or so
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Educated upper class women are the easiest assuming your game is good…
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or black
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Muh dick!
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Call me stupid. Exactly what is the deal with MSM’s current obsession with this missing plane, and exactly why should we keep trying or even care to find the wreckage when it’s 9 miles under water and costs billions and is like looking for a needle at the bottom of the ocean? Exactly what will be learned?
http://www.cnn.com/2014/04/15/world/asia/malaysia-airlines-plane/index.html?hpt=hp_t1
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I don’t understand either. I have barely paid attention.
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jesus christ so much make-work in this world
http://management.fortune.cnn.com/2014/04/14/getting-along-at-work-a-primer-on-personal-intelligence/?iid=s_mpm
all of these people in media doing make-work. writing drivel. when does it all end?
80% of men and 100% of women with a job do “make-work.” Only the 20% of men who work outside still do any real work.
I’m one of the make workers, I admit it. That’s why I’m here on this blog all day. Nothing against CH, but I wish that were not the case.
all of us here like zombies staring at a computer screen
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watching jackass presents bad granpa and talking bout mediocre woman holy shit it says real people but I kind of wish they would of used more actors cause the woman in the movie are ugly as hell crazy ugly woman holy fucing shit blowing my fucking mind shit funny though
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This is some Drivel.
Gaming below 7 is not only a waste of time but women in the 5-7 band actually gum up the system.
Women over 8 are used to be hitting on since they were 13; they get it.
They have had their teachers, coaches, doormen, bosses, etc ALL hit on them.
They know the end-game and actually dont waste ur time.
They either spread or blow u off.
5-7 are using all sorts of deceptions, witticisms, cock-teasing to keep u interested.
8-10 know pussy is currency and trade it freely
Been on 500+ dates off match.com and 8-10s put out much quicker than below 7.
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‘Been on 500+ dates off match.com ‘
‘8-10s’
Pick one.
‘put out much quicker than below 7.’
Um. You can get them to put out fast, but IME your game has to be tighter.
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nj silver
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“5-7 are using all sorts of deceptions, witticisms, cock-teasing to keep u interested.
8-10 know pussy is currency and trade it freely
Been on 500+ dates off match.com and 8-10s put out much quicker than below 7.”
Makes sense, but how does that justify your opening asessment?
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I ended a relationship with an average girl. But here is what I noticed about her.
+’s
1. Constantly told me she liked me, cute I was, glad she was dating me.
2. Always on time, excited to see me.
3. Kept me in the loop, Invited me to things/ dates
4. very trust worthy, easy to talk to about personal issues
5. Sexually inexperienced in a cute admittingly sorta way, willing to try things, except the ass. (let me put a finger in once, lololz)
6. Always down for sex, kissing, showering.
-‘s
1. Weight! Eating! Lack of fitness. she had a little extra, (da ass was fat, and kinda good) but in the end it was a boner kill when she mounted me and its just too much work. Shes just gona get worse, and made no real effort the time we dated to loose any. Eats too much.
2. Low energy during sex, I did most of the work.
3. Not a very funny girl, kinda boring conversationalist
4. Too introverted in some cases to make me feel like I want to be a better man, or my true self.
5. I did not feel protective of her, and no urgent impulse to be around her all the time. (no giddy touching, and tickling, playful fighting)
I also have known a girl who I’d assume was a high 8, low 9?.
Hot as fuck, good conversationalist, think about her WAY more. but she is a bag of problems, boyfriends, can’t keep a real fucking date, Flakes out, Ever since I met her I think shes full of bullshit.. ALWAYS. But, she intrigues me and I wish she had some golden traits like the average girl had.
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[…] Yes, I know what some of you are thinking. “Game mediocre girls?! What’s the point? […]
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Chubby cute girls need love too
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