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Chateau Heartiste

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« Institutional Misogyny
What Advice Would CH Have Given To A Younger Elliot Rodger? »

Amanjaw Marcuntte’s Singularly False Premise

May 28, 2014 by CH

The self-gratifying meme that feminists have begun to lock labia around to exploit explain Elliot Rodger’s killing spree is exemplified in this American Prospect stream of runny shit by Amanda Marcotte, she of the furry manjaw and associated masculine temperament. The meme, a rather simple-minded one, goes like this: “Pickup artistry, loosely affiliated with the manosphere, drives men to kill.”

Other unattractive feminists who have spent many years playing second banana to their prettier friends getting all the attention from exciting players are circling the wagons around this kindergarten interpretation.

Marcuntte’s libelous propaganda rests on a singularly false premise. She lies,

Despite PUA guarantees to the contrary, there’s no reason to believe any of this actually makes you more successful with women, which is why a site called PUAhate, which Rodgers was a frequent contributor to, emerged. Members of PUAhate, by and large, are men who bought wholesale into the PUA ideology, only to find it doesn’t work for them.

You’ll never go broke underestimating the rapidity with which feminist warthogs abandon journalistic integrity in pursuit of a predefined agenda. PUAHate was not filled with men who “bought wholesale into the PUA ideology”. Quite the contrary, if this raving cuntess had spent one minute trawling the site she’d know that it was filled with shut-in losers who never followed PUA advice and nursed an inordinate hatred for PUA marketers whom they considered, rightly or wrongly, were pushing snake oil.

If Marcuntte were to concede this point, the entire edifice of her Prospect article crumbles to the ground. That’s why she lies. Without lies, these feminist freaks would have nothing.

In related shivving, I wonder how Manboobz, nee David Futrelle, feels about having happily linked to a website that harbored a mass murderer and fed his despair and homicidal tendencies? The blood of four men and two women are on his hands.*

*If femcunts and their blobby male lackeys want to dispense with any pretense of objectivity and get in the gutter, I’ll be the first to open the sewer doors and toss them in with the rats and pigs.

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Posted in Current Events, Feminist Idiocy, Misandry, Pretty Lies | 135 Comments

135 Responses

  1. on May 28, 2014 at 10:53 am Amanjaw Marcuntte’s Singularly False Premise | Manosphere.com

    […] Amanjaw Marcuntte’s Singularly False Premise […]

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  2. on May 28, 2014 at 10:56 am Unbeliever

    Feminism is the Koran in America now. All events must be forced to fit its views, our laws must be changed to protect it, and anyone who publicly questions it makes himself an unbeliever with no rights.

    LikeLike


    • on May 28, 2014 at 12:26 pm Lash

      Brilliant. +1

      LikeLike


    • on May 28, 2014 at 1:18 pm Sean

      That’s perfect. +1

      LikeLike


    • on May 28, 2014 at 3:59 pm Zombie Shane

      URGENT: GIVE YOUR WOMAN ORGASMS, OR SOMEONE ELSE WILL!!!

      ***************

      EXCLUSIVE – ‘She couldn’t wait and allowed him to seduce her in a creaky French elevator’: Bombshell book reveals Jackie Kennedy’s secret lovers, her revenge on JFK with William Holden, her steamy night with Brando and her forbidden affairs with Bobby AND Teddy
      28 May 2014
      http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2640882/EXCLUSIVE-She-wait-allowed-seduce-creaky-French-elevator-Jackie-Kennedys-secret-lovers-revenge-JFK-William-Holden-steamy-night-Brando-forbidden-affairs-Bobby-AND-Teddy.html

      ‘I knew that women didn’t find him a great lover’, Jackie confided. ‘He certainly wasn’t. He wanted a quickie and then he was back on the phone talking with some silly politician. When he did have sex with me, he would turn over and go to sleep right away. There I was listening to his snoring and almost crying at my lack of fulfillment as a woman’.

      ***************

      Predictors Of Marital Infidelity Among Kenyan Women
      April 25, 2014
      https://heartiste.wordpress.com/2014/04/25/predictors-of-marital-infidelity-among-kenyan-women/

      Gotta love that wife’s rationalization for her cheating: “My lover has a slow hand, which gives me many orgasms so that I’m spent and don’t feel like demanding too much from my two-pumps-and-done husband.”

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    • on May 29, 2014 at 3:08 am Wonder boy

      Homie, you got a thing against Islam? Not all Muslims are extremists. If you could lay aside stereotyped ideas for a moment, the Koran never urges anything in the form of extremism. It’s just how some interpret it.
      Oh, BTW, feminism sucks.

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      • on May 29, 2014 at 7:25 pm Corey

        Muhammad, the founder of Islam, himself was an “extremist.” He and his followers interpreted it to mean conquest and oppression of nonbelievers.

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    • on May 29, 2014 at 4:33 am Zombie Shane

      CHIMPANZEE GRADUATION CEREMONY IN BALTIMORE:

      LikeLike


    • on May 29, 2014 at 6:44 am Zombie Shane

      SCARY PICTURES:

      British girls are the fattest in Europe, claims study
      http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2642305/British-girls-fattest-Europe-Almost-females-age-20-UK-overweight-obese-claims-study.html

      LikeLike


    • on May 29, 2014 at 6:49 am Zombie Shane

      ANN COULTER DESTROYS THE PSYCHIATRIC PROFESSION:

      DON’T STIGMATIZE MURDERERS!
      http://www.anncoulter.com/columns/2014-05-28.html

      Ann nailed it.

      That poor boy’s parents and his psychiatrist deserve to burn in Hell.

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  3. on May 28, 2014 at 11:00 am Just Saying

    Hmmm PUAHate – seems to be just what it is, a hate-group directed at men. Is it surprising that people that HATE men, would also HATE women? These are seriously deranged people, who have failed and are looking for others to blame for their failure – it is as simple as that. Rather than pointing at people who attempt to “help,” they should go after that other hate groups directed at men – most of the Feminist sites would seem to fall into that category.

    Heck, women like Amanda Marcotte spout all sorts of hatred directed at women as well as men – sounds a lot like this lunatic Elliot Rodger when you listen to her, although rather than blaming women, she blames all men… Hate is hate, and the people that spout it have issues… It is as simple as that…

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    • on May 28, 2014 at 11:32 am Director

      She sounds like mental patient.

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  4. on May 28, 2014 at 11:03 am cheesetrader

    Pretty soon, there’ll be a cry and whine that Rodgers was sexxxxxxist b/c he killed more men than women.

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    • on May 28, 2014 at 11:33 am Wilson

      They do claim that killing the men was misogyny too. Sorry, I can’t type their “reasoning” since the only way to do it is to press a sloppy vagina against the keys. But to be fair if he got into the gun-free sorority he would have bagged more females. Which raises the question of whether he really wanted to, since he apparently made no entry plan

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      • on May 28, 2014 at 11:44 am Tilikum

        press a sloppy vagina against the keys.

        i loled

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      • on May 28, 2014 at 12:52 pm bulls eye

        “if he got into the gun-free sorority he would have bagged more females.”

        nah. he catches his first glimpse of gash and faints before firing a single round.

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      • on May 28, 2014 at 1:00 pm Hugh G. Rection

        Kinda like how some ditz said the World Wars were worse for women because they lost their husbands…

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      • on May 28, 2014 at 1:05 pm Zombie Shane

        > “Which raises the question of whether he really wanted to, since he apparently made no entry plan”

        Yeah, on a previous thread, I was half-jokingly half-seriously throwing around the possibility that even in his murderous rage, he was still so intimidated by Playaz and by sorority HBs that he could only bring himself to murder gooks and armadillos and fat ugly chicks.

        On a related note, I saw some footage of the rally in the stadium at UCSB, which had an unmistakable feel of Nuremburg-esque fascism to it.

        Almost made me feel a little sorry for that murderous thug twit, Elliot Rodger.

        http://www.keyt.com/news/students-pack-stadium-for-memorial/26200710

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      • on May 29, 2014 at 11:56 am chi-town

        What? Do you not know every man has a mother? Clearly the biggest offense in doing harm to any man is how much it upsets his mother.

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    • on May 29, 2014 at 11:52 am chi-town

      Well then let it be said that if you kill 100 women and a 100 men, you don’t hate anybody.

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  5. on May 28, 2014 at 11:13 am Aquila

    The guys at PUAHate are total losers, but it’s true that most game material is sold by charlatans. They charge tons of money for their products that help marginally because they’re trying to capitalize on lonely men’s frustration. You can find everything you need for free on website like here at CH, in forums, in videos or my favorite, the old school David Deangelo vids which are easy to find all over the Internet.

    Men who want to sell advice to men have to be straight with them nowadays, or they’re just going to get chodes as followers, who will turn into bitter chodes after the product doesn’t deliver as advertised. Here’s some things I think PUA’s need to do –

    1 – Be honest with men that they probably have to start small before gaining the skills and confidence to go big. AKA – start in your league, which may be 4’s and 5’s before trying to go for even 7’s.

    2 – The gym is no joke. You don’t have to be a bodybuilder or an athlete or even have a 6 pack but it really helps to go to the gym and get a little yoked. I have huge, tattooed biceps, and those alone get me a lot of attention from women. By skipping the gym you’re not only failing to develop your body, which might do a lot of the work for you as far as getting women goes, but handicapping yourself by staying too skinny or too fat.

    3 – Be honest that men are going to get hurt and have to deal with it. You will be blown out, sometimes terribly, and you may want to pull an Elliot Rodger and go cry about it at first, but you need to let yourself get hurt before you get better. It’s like signing up for boxing – you know you’re going to bleed if you want to fight, but you look past it and towards the prize.

    4 – Ditch the “leave her better than you found her” crap. It’s just gay.

    5 – Calm down on the peacocking and manscaping. My hairy ass, chest and legs get the job done just fine. The chodes need to dress fashionably, get their hair fixed and pluck the unibrow, but too many PUA books take it a step too far when they get into shaving balls and other things the castrati of yore probably enjoyed.

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    • on May 28, 2014 at 11:50 am Amy

      “4 – Ditch the “leave her better than you found her” crap. It’s just gay.”

      THANK YOU. It’s gay, disingenuous, and almost always false. And it’s not the guy’s problem anyway.

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      • on May 28, 2014 at 12:02 pm cryo

        “THANK YOU. It’s gay, disingenuous, and almost always false. And it’s not the guy’s problem anyway.”

        Not to mention impossible. By the time you’re done with her she’s that much older.

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      • on May 28, 2014 at 12:03 pm Steve H

        “4 – Ditch the “leave her better than you found her” crap. It’s just gay.”

        Over on Rollo’s blog a few weeks back, a commenter expounded upon how a woman ‘feels love’ when her body is being used for something. Including during any half-decent sexual experience, even ONS. Just don’t be awful to her (don’t be fundamentally deceptive about who you are and what you want), fuck her hard and proper, make your exit and never contact her again if you don’t want to – and as luck would have it, you will in fact leave her better than you found her.

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      • on May 28, 2014 at 12:17 pm A Random Guy

        It always struck me as a rationalization for pump&dumping a chick…

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      • on May 28, 2014 at 12:32 pm Amy

        @Steve “don’t be fundamentally deceptive about who you are and what you want”

        That’s the perfect substitute. Then the girl can decide for herself whether she wants to proceed/stay.

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      • on May 28, 2014 at 12:42 pm A Random Guy

        Amy, I also always thought it was bullshit because it seems to me that women who PUAs go after fall into two groups: those who are DTF and those are looking for an LTR. To pick up the latter requires being dishonest with her about what you want and where you are going. Whether her expectations are realistics or not is not the point. The point is you have to lie to her to get her into the sack. When she finally figures out what is going on, the PUA is on to greener pastures, and the woman feels… pumped and dumped. How on earth this maps to ‘leave her better than you found her’ is dubious to me, anyway…

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      • on May 28, 2014 at 12:58 pm Amy

        @RandomGuy: I think of PUA and game as the same. The end goal is attracting and picking up women. Even if you’re open to a LTR… you gotta meet/attract/pursue the girl first. So game applies across the board.

        All men want sex, regardless of their method of approach. For some that’s all they want, for others they want sex and possibly more, depending on the girl. No girl can figure this out right away. The best tool is time investment. And… that’s how the “3-date rule” was born. Lol

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      • on May 28, 2014 at 1:13 pm Zombie Shane

        Something weird is happening to Amy.

        This is the second straight almost dejectedly nihilistic post which I’ve seen from her.

        Either it’s a lousy time of the month for her, or else she’s starting to go Dark.

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      • on May 28, 2014 at 1:51 pm A Random Guy

        Amy, I have no problem with game inre dealing with women in your life. I am not interested in PUA, so that aspect is not my cup of tea. All I was getting at was that I find it unfortunate when guys use game on women who are not DTF, to use their instincts against them, and when they finally wake up to what is going on, the guy is out of there. And then I read people on here blaming the woman for being bitter about guys. Yeah, right…

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      • on May 28, 2014 at 2:53 pm Steve H

        @A Random Guy – bullshit. A lot of women love being seduced by an attractive Alpha for a ONS or short term fling. Women love sex, even uncommitted sex. Women love feeling attraction and tingles and excitement for an Alpha male who knows who to generate those intense phenomena in her. If the woman wants to hold out and not have sex with him, that’s her prerogative and more power to her. If the Alpha wants to exit and not spend more time with her in light of her decision to not have sex with him – well, more power to him as well.

        I’m a faithful guy in an LTR. But that doesn’t change the fact that both I and my gf would probably relish a ‘meaningless’ ONS with some other ultra-attractive (e.g. celebrity, model, et al) partner. And that’s ok. It’s just the way it is. Your condemnation of reality is the only thing that’s unhealthy.

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      • on May 28, 2014 at 8:15 pm Random Guy

        You seem to have reading comprehension issues. I specifically was referencing women who are NOT into an ONS or whatever.

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      • on May 28, 2014 at 10:27 pm Steve H

        I get that you’re drawing a distinction between women who are and are not DTF. But the guy has to get to the point where he accurately ascertains whether or not she is in fact DTF. Women act coquettish and say things like ‘we’re not having sex tonight’ and then you invite them in for a drink and they jump on you. However long it takes for a man to ascertain that she’s *not* DTF (whereafter he bails) is however long it takes. Doesn’t give the woman holding out any entitlement to resentment or bitterness, unless she was unusually overt and straightforward in their heretofore flirtatious, sexualized interactions – which women rarely ever are overt therein (at least up until the ‘good night’ or possibly bedroom LMR).

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      • on May 29, 2014 at 9:50 am Amy

        “All I was getting at was that I find it unfortunate when guys use game on women who are not DTF, to use their instincts against them, and when they finally wake up to what is going on, the guy is out of there.”

        Having sex with the guy is always the girl’s decision, though. If a girl lets herself get gamed into a ONS with a player because he gets her into a hypersexual state, it’s on her. She can’t have any expectations. A guy wanting to have sex with her is meaningless by itself. A guy wanting to invest time with her to get there… that’s what matters.

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      • on May 29, 2014 at 10:30 am Lara

        Steve H,
        I doubt your girlfriend would relish a one night stand the way you would. Likely, she’d end up feeling embarrassed and used. This is true even for someone she is very attracted to.

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    • on May 28, 2014 at 12:32 pm cryo

      Krauser is a solid source for men seeking field guidance. He doesn’t sugarcoat and is realistic about how far Game will take you.
      I have his second edition Day Game Nitro and it is devoid of self-aggrandizement and useless theorizing. If you’re older (27+) I would recommend it.

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    • on May 28, 2014 at 1:25 pm Amy

      I don’t mean to be nihilistic. These are just truths. Women’s market value doesn’t increase with each sexual relationship, so how can you leave her better than you found her? The premise is silly. And why is that the guy’s job to leave her “better”? If we know what we’re getting into, we’re on the hook for how it turns out. Just don’t lie about what we’re getting into… if you see other girls, say so. If you just want a FB, say so.

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      • on May 28, 2014 at 1:52 pm A Random Guy

        Agreed. There are more than enough women in the 2nd category that you don’t need to be a dishonest sh*t to get laid.

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      • on May 28, 2014 at 3:45 pm Zombie "Kryptonite" Shane

        Okay, well I’m glad you clarified that, because your original remarks [I went back and reread them, just to be sure] sounded like you were praising the pump-n-dumpers and castigating the poor girls who were their victims.

        Personally, I’ve never known a chick who wanted to be pumped and dumped.

        Pretty much every chick I’ve ever tried to break up with has burst into tears and gone into a more-or-less full blown nervous breakdown.

        It got to the point that I kinda gave up on the idea of breaking up.

        In fact, as some guys were half-jokingly half-seriously saying on some other thread a while back, if you’ve got a [one-time] FB who is harassing you and stalking you and driving you nuts, then the easiest way to get rid of her is to start acting beta.

        Either that, or else never fornicate with her in the first place.

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    • on May 29, 2014 at 4:23 am Rigwarl

      Why is Amy the retarded mudshark still posting? You’ve been told off countless times by CH and others, both in main blog posts, and in the comments section.

      Look, we know you like to fuck convicted criminals and other such lovely members of society, so can you do the world a favor and go play in traffic? We seriously don’t want a woman posting here who has been whoring herself out since age 14 with the mental acumen of a soap dish.

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  6. on May 28, 2014 at 11:15 am Rollo Tomassi

    Remind me again how it was the manosphere who influenced a guy like Eliot?

    http://jezebel.com/5972788/no-one-is-entitled-to-sex-why-we-should-mock-the-nice-guys-of-okcupid

    http://gawker.com/5969878/nice-guys-of-ok-cupid-are-not-really

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/21/nice-guys-of-okcupid-tumblr_n_2341720.html

    http://fozmeadows.tumblr.com/post/20834902215/lamenting-the-friend-zone-or-the-nice-guy-approach

    http://www.harpyness.com/2010/07/07/nice-guys-tm-finish-last-for-good-reason/

    http://feminspire.com/nice-guy-syndrome-and-the-friend-zone/

    http://www.theatlantic.com/sexes/archive/2013/01/sympathy-for-the-nice-guys-of-okcupid/266929/

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/jan/08/friends-friend-zone

    And Laurie Penny should probably STFU about now…

    http://www.newstatesman.com/laurie-penny/2012/12/laurie-penny-sexism-and-misogyny-online-dating

    “For a lot of these ‘nice guys’ who can’t get dates, it looks like nothing a shave and a bit of positive self-talk couldn’t cure. Unfortunately for those of us who believe in the basic decency of the species, many of these chaps seem instead to have translated their fear of rejection, their loneliness and humiliation, into active misogyny, a savage self-pitying resentment which must make perfect sense at 4am on a lonely weeknight whilst flicking between OkCupid and RedTube.com but which makes rather less when exposed to the cold pixel glare of internet disapprobation.”

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    • on May 28, 2014 at 11:37 am Glengarry

      Solid hit after solid hit.

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      • on May 28, 2014 at 11:44 am Glengarry

        Take the pic from here http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-echochambers-27553254 and “Nice guy from OKCupid” could meme all day.

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    • on May 28, 2014 at 11:52 am Aaron

      Except Elliot Rodger never consider himself a “nice guy.” He was never in a friendzone. The only companionship he had with women was when his parents paid a young female life coach to talk with him. He felt this interaction was similar to prostitution and felt disgusted by how pathetic it made him feel afterwards.

      Elliot was lost in his own delusional world. And now everyone is using him for their own political agenda. The truth is he was an outlier. A 0.001%. He is not the symptom of feminism or the manosphere. He is not a representation of American culture. He was a freak and a megalomaniac.

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      • on May 28, 2014 at 12:00 pm Rollo Tomassi

        Agreed, but unfortunately that’s not the reasonable tact the femosphere is taking.

        They want to wipe Eliot off on the manosphere but by their own flawed reasoning they would be every bit as implicit in the influence of “guys like Eliot.” if not more culpable than the manosphere.

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      • on May 28, 2014 at 12:32 pm corvinus

        Except Elliot Rodger never consider himself a “nice guy.”

        Uh, did you even read anything he said? He was calling himself the “perfect gentleman”, which is basically the same thing… especially since “nice guy” is becoming stigmatized among Niceguys themselves.

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      • on May 28, 2014 at 4:57 pm Libertardian

        For Rodger to call himself a nice guy was an exaggeration. “Nice guy” implies you’re spending time/resources on someone who knows just what you’re hoping for and is, consciously or not, using the lure of it to keep the gravy train flowing with zero intention of ever coming across (the conveniently unmentioned other side of the #YesAllWomen coin). For Rodger, it would have been a step up, as he demonstrated with his repeated get-rich-quick attempts so he could play the hopelessly outmoded beta provider game.

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      • on May 28, 2014 at 6:14 pm Anonymous

        I read his entire autobiography. He wasn’t a “nice guy”. He never had a chance to be. After elementary school, he never had even a trivial relationship with a girl. He couldn’t even bring himself to talk to one.

        I think “perfect gentleman” referred mainly to his self image as a sophisticated and cultured intellectual.

        He was pathologically narcissistic, envious, neurotic, had extreme social anxiety, and was a psychopath. If he had been asexual, he probably would have gone on a workplace rampage later in life.

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      • on May 29, 2014 at 4:44 am Zombie Shane

        > “The truth is he was an outlier. A 0.001%.”

        You’re gonna need to add a lot more zeroes to the right of that decimal point.

        At least I hope you are.

        I hope that Elliot Rodger is not the “new normal”.

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      • on May 29, 2014 at 12:10 pm chi-town

        “And now everyone is using him for their own political agenda.”

        That is what is a representation of American culture. If you are dressed in an all white out fit or an all black one, such that they are opposites in every way from smooth and ruffled fabrics in nylon , cotton or wool; where one must have soap and water while the other dry cleaned; or that one mourns in one and celebrates in the other. Its all haute couture political bullshit made to fit their personal theory. Kill a man and its because you hate his wife. Hold the door open for her and its a condescension. Let it slam on her nose, and you are anti-feminist all the same.

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  7. on May 28, 2014 at 11:16 am cryo

    Who is the audience for these feminist hit pieces? Most of the attractive women I’ve known are either actively opposed to feminism or too dumb to even know what it is. The unattractive ones…well I don’t know where they stand because I never cared to ask. And that is how most people on the planet regard this nonsense. Sound and fury. Irrelevance.

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    • on May 28, 2014 at 11:26 am Director

      YKW!

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    • on May 28, 2014 at 11:27 am kant

      From my perspective in NYC — all the young women I meet here are highly educated ivy league twenty-somethings who love reading Jezebel and Slate and Thought Catalog and regurgitate the garbage they read there. Ironically, they in no way follow what they preach, and rather than date nice guys they habitually have casual sex with unemployed bad boys such as myself.

      But yeah if there’s a whole industry dedicated to telling you that you’re a special perfect unique snowflake but the whole world is trying to keep you down, why wouldn’t you take part in it. Especially when it’s the culturally accepted thing to do.

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      • on May 28, 2014 at 11:34 am cheesetrader

        Just think of it all as a giant Shit Test….suddenly, opportunities galore present themselves.

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      • on May 28, 2014 at 11:46 am zodak

        yup, that is right, they share this crap on failbook & twatter but irl they will take a load across from the face from some guy who they will never see again.

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      • on May 28, 2014 at 12:10 pm marcusaemilius

        Yeah I’ve seen a few attractive girls link to Jizzabel and such on twitter (even some models), highly unrepresentative of their average reader to say the least though.

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      • on May 28, 2014 at 1:00 pm bulls eye

        “highly educated”

        ha ha ha

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    • on May 28, 2014 at 11:38 am Glengarry

      It’s background noise, like advertising except less ambiguously evil.

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    • on May 28, 2014 at 1:23 pm chi-town

      Women who are unsuccessful in satisfying their amorous desires seek a place to lodge their complaints.

      And thus the most popular place to do so is the one who best tells them what they want to hear.

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  8. on May 28, 2014 at 11:21 am pabarge

    David Futrelle? Like this guy?

    Remember, Feminism is a culture of gender hatred.

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    • on May 28, 2014 at 11:48 am zodak

      is that really him!? i don’t think anyone could look more like an internet white knight if they tried.

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      • on May 28, 2014 at 12:34 pm corvinus

        Yup.

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  9. on May 28, 2014 at 11:25 am Director

    If I am not mistaken she’s suggesting that PUAhate is a rational response to Dating tips?

    Right? The irony of the position obviously eludes her. She is in alignment with Elliot Rodgers.

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  10. on May 28, 2014 at 11:29 am Director

    The irony here is that she’s blaming the massacre on PUAhate even though she has aligned herself with PUAhate!

    Shit, don’t blame the paranoid schizophrenia, latent homosexuality, broken home and racial identity confusion. Or the possibility that he might have been consuming PEDs.

    Fckn hell, when she was dumped she must have really taken it to heart. She’s a fucking psychopath.

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  11. on May 28, 2014 at 11:32 am Tank

    Despite Cosmopolitan guarantees to the contrary, there’s no reason to believe any of this actually makes you more successful with men, which is why a site called Jezebel, which Marcuntte was a frequent contributor to, emerged. Members of Jezebel, by and large, are women who bought wholesale into the Cosmo ideology, only to find they couldn’t put their fork down.

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    • on May 28, 2014 at 12:25 pm Waffles

      “Members of Jezebel, by and large, are women who bought wholesale into the Cosmo ideology, only to find they couldn’t put their fork down.”

      LOL Well said!

      LikeLike


  12. on May 28, 2014 at 11:35 am Glengarry

    Had Elliot Rodgers been a regular visitor at an anti-feminist site, Marcuntte would by the same logic of course blame feminism for his crimes.

    LikeLike


  13. on May 28, 2014 at 11:37 am RambleAround

    She obviously hasn’t read any of his manifesto. And if she has, then this drivel is a witch hunt plain and simple. True to form, in fact

    LikeLike


  14. on May 28, 2014 at 11:38 am jamzw

    Rodgers could have gotten laid easily, by an inebriated 3 or 4. But no, he wanted to start at 8. If only a 3 had shived Rodgers for not dating her this problem never would have surfaced.

    LikeLike


    • on May 28, 2014 at 11:43 am CH

      every man wants to fuck an 8. rodger was no weirdo for having the desires he had. what rodger needed was not ten years of useless PC feminized therapy, but a real man to step up and tell him what women are really all about, and what he has to do to make himself more attractive to women.

      LikeLike


      • on May 28, 2014 at 11:50 am Steve H

        YES. He didn’t need a fucking therapist, he needed a hardened, rogue, fearless politically incorrect Alpha male (think Clint Eastwood in Gran Torino) to smack him around and show him how the world actually works. Rodger couldn’t come to terms with the fact that women are naturally polygamous and the Pareto Principle applies to intersexual pairings in post-feminist America. That 80%+ of men are having little if any sex and have limited sexual options and live in abject scarcity (which is why so many glom onto the misandry that is modern marriage – they gotta ‘lock this one down’ and ‘heaven knows when you’ll get laid again if she leaves…’). That’s one of the toxic mindsets that led him to the brink, and over the edge.

        LikeLike


      • on May 28, 2014 at 11:51 am Director

        His dad should have hired a hooker for him. Might have been the one decent thing his pops ever did for him.

        LikeLike


      • on May 28, 2014 at 12:20 pm cryo

        @SteveH I don’t believe women are naturally polygamous. I’m not a super player or anything but in my experience most women desire monogamy. The catch is they are always looking to trade up, hence serial monogamy.

        LikeLike


      • on May 28, 2014 at 12:47 pm bulls eye

        “rodger was no weirdo for having the desires he had.”

        would you think I was a weirdo if I was fixated on meeting a silver nugget shitting unicorn? Maybe so, maybe not. But most would agree I was delusional.

        His HB princess dream girl was a figment of his imagination and no amount of straight talk was going to convince him she didn’t exist. His makeup rendered him unable to exist in a world with actual women.

        “and what he has to do to make himself more attractive to women.”

        you can polish a turd, but it’s still a piece of shit. HBs can smell congruency. you can be a huge dork and still pull if you’re confident and true to your character.

        He was so far omega that even with all the game in the world he would have topped out at lesser beta and even 5s would have been repulsed and rightly so.

        LikeLike


  15. on May 28, 2014 at 11:41 am Ted Turner's Mustache

    Serious question:

    Do you think Amanjaw Marcuntte has ever fucked a man?

    I say she’s a virgin herself.

    LikeLike


    • on May 28, 2014 at 12:23 pm anonYmous

      the better question, has anyone fucked her and not killed himself?

      LikeLike


    • on May 28, 2014 at 12:44 pm A Random Guy

      Not a guy, no…

      LikeLike


    • on May 28, 2014 at 2:21 pm Rick Derris

      >>>Do you think Amanjaw Marcuntte has ever fucked a man?

      Are you counting the time she got Scalzi with the strap-on?

      LikeLike


    • on May 28, 2014 at 8:21 pm corvinus

      With that orc-sized manjaw, and that attitude, I’m pretty sure no (at least with a man’s dick in her cunt).

      She has the female version of incel/virgin rage in spades.

      LikeLike


      • on May 29, 2014 at 2:11 am Hugh G. Rection

        She has the female version of incel/virgin rage in spades.

        Penis envy?

        LikeLike


  16. on May 28, 2014 at 11:42 am jack

    I don’t know if its been pointed out, but Rogers hated men who were successful with women, and hot women.

    So he proceeded to off 3 chinese betas and 2 ugly women?

    That he couldn’t confront his most prized targets appears to be his tragic flaw. Even mass murderers get approach anxiety.

    LikeLike


    • on May 28, 2014 at 11:50 am cheesetrader

      “Even mass murderers get approach anxiety.”

      This made me laugh

      LikeLike


    • on May 28, 2014 at 11:57 am Director

      It’s like Lee Harvey Oswald gunning down a School book inspector instead of JFK. Because he got puffed out going up 10 flights of stairs and thought

      “Fuck it, I’ll shoot the next official I see. It’s all the fucking same.”

      They even had better misfits in the 1960s!

      LikeLike


    • on May 28, 2014 at 12:02 pm ConanTheAwesome

      Rodger’s murderous plan was partially foiled. Read his autobiography if you can stomach it. He planned to murder his housemates (the Asian men), then visit an Alpha Phi sorority house and slaughter the girls, then drive through Isla Vista shooting and running over people.

      The girls at the sorority house ignored him when he came and banged on the door.

      I guess women’s ingrained contempt for loser men has direct survival value.

      LikeLike


      • on May 28, 2014 at 12:43 pm Jay in DC

        And Mr. Megalomaniac ‘brilliant genius’ who was packing a fucking SigSauer P226 on his person never realized he could have stepped back a bit and put a couple rounds into that lock and had open season on the blonde women he so badly wanted to slaughter. The guy was a loser and failure even in death.

        LikeLike


      • on May 28, 2014 at 12:45 pm The Burninator

        @Jay

        Well, that’s how it goes when your only concept of tactical combat comes from WoW. You simply cannot hack through a door with a weapon no matter what level you are! His +1 Crit Hit P226 had zero chance of busting that +3 Resist Lockpick door handle!

        LikeLike


      • on May 28, 2014 at 12:53 pm ConanTheAwesome

        Ah, but there’s the rub – if he hadn’t been such a loser, he wouldn’t have been murdering people in the first place.

        LikeLike


      • on May 28, 2014 at 1:01 pm A Random Guy

        LOL…

        LikeLike


      • on May 28, 2014 at 6:33 pm gaoxiaen

        I can’t stomach it. Why did he kill his roommates?

        LikeLike


      • on May 28, 2014 at 10:30 pm marcusaemilius

        This thread is fucking gold.

        LikeLike


  17. on May 28, 2014 at 11:51 am Media peeper

    About a month ago Jezebel published an article “Asian Men Are Angry”. This article is the straw that broke camel’s back and pushed Elliot over the edge:

    “Asian men are angry that American society doesn’t view them as powerful and attractive and all those signifiers we associate with masculinity. So they’ll say or do anything to prove that they can objectify, demean, or rape a woman just as well as any other man can.”

    http://jezebel.com/asian-men-are-angry-1566774111

    LikeLike


    • on May 28, 2014 at 11:54 am cheesetrader

      And clearly Jezebel is at fault for having publicized and promoted this attitude……therefore, they’re to blame.

      Hey – this stuff is fun

      LikeLike


      • on May 28, 2014 at 12:17 pm Media peeper

        Yup, I wonder how Dodger boy felt when he read this bit (from that same article) considering it was coming from powerful media organization that speaks for all cuntemporary American women:

        “You may ask what the stereotype of the emasculated Asian man is. It’s that he is sexless, nerdy, timid, cursed with a small penis, and basically the embodiment of what we don’t want in a man that we actually want to fuck.”

        Poor soul, never stood a chance.

        LikeLike


    • on May 28, 2014 at 12:11 pm Neecy

      UNBELIEABLE!!!

      LikeLike


    • on May 28, 2014 at 12:30 pm PDA

      Just keep in mind Jezebel is a hate bait site. Literally any click-through they get encourages them. If you want to post something from Jezebel stick it in a pastebin. It’s stormfront for bulldykes.

      LikeLike


  18. on May 28, 2014 at 12:09 pm kfg

    “Members of PUAhate, by and large, are men who bought wholesale into the PUA ideology, only to find it doesn’t work for them.”

    Ergo, rejecting PUA game drives men to kill.

    Is that the point she was driving after?

    LikeLike


  19. on May 28, 2014 at 12:21 pm anonYmous

    sorry what? im to busy poundin tang to murder.

    2 easy ways to get laid… say nothing… or say you have lotsa cockas

    LikeLike


    • on May 28, 2014 at 10:01 pm Roar

      4 U. You forgot to say 4 u, or else it’s you that gotz lotsa cockas.

      LikeLike


  20. on May 28, 2014 at 12:33 pm An Anti-Democracy Activist

    Did all of you appologize to @MikeAnissimov yet? He called out you psychos. Now that you’ve tainted the neoreactionary movement with your PUA bullshit, will please purge yourself before you manosophere fuck-heads bring us down?

    Review of basic reactionary arguments against the manosphere HERE:
    http://esoterictrad.wordpress.com/2014/01/12/how-the-pua-manosphere-benefits-from-and-promotes-feminism/ …

    LikeLike


    • on May 28, 2014 at 12:39 pm The Burninator

      Rodgers….is that you?

      LikeLike


    • on May 28, 2014 at 12:58 pm marcusaemilius

      Anissimov seems like Rodger, effeminate dweeb whining about men being “disrespectful” to women.

      LikeLike


    • on May 28, 2014 at 1:05 pm cryo

      lol, in order to have a “movement” I think you actually have to be going somewhere…and I don’t mean up the basement stairs to raid Daddy’s fridge.

      neoreactionary you say? hold on, I’m still laughing.

      LikeLike


    • on May 28, 2014 at 1:28 pm zodak

      are you more sad that puahate is down or that your fedora fell in a puddle?

      LikeLike


    • on May 28, 2014 at 1:30 pm anonYmous

      feminazis are crappy lays.

      LikeLike


    • on May 29, 2014 at 1:24 am Nyan Sandwich

      “appologize @MikeAnissimov called out you psychos. tainted neoreactionary movement PUA bullshit. purge yourself. manosophere fuck-heads bring us down”

      I think you anti-PUA idiots are just starting shit for the sake of it. Whether or not to distance yourself from PUA is a matter of pretty complex game theory, and I haven’t seen any of you give anything like a serious analysis. Not that I’ve been paying attention; your drama and infighting bores me.

      Here are some interesting questions for ya’ll:

      Are the PUA’s causing decline or just capitalizing on a decline that was going to happen one way or another?

      Is the drama of splitting NR from PUA still worth it when you consider the epistemic and recruitment value of PUA?

      Should we even care what degenerate shit people are getting up to? There’s a *lot* of degeneracy in the world, and the primary value of neoreaction is novel analysis, not “hurr-durr anti-degeneracy activism”. In this, NR is aligned with at least Heartiste’s end of PUA.

      LikeLike


  21. on May 28, 2014 at 1:01 pm oralcummings

    A bit OT but Maya Angelou has died today. A great loss. Bitch look like a gorilla.

    LikeLike


    • on May 28, 2014 at 5:16 pm Director

      Her final tweet was the epitome of black solipsism.

      “Listen to yourself and there you hear God.”

      Not

      “Let your conscience be your guide.”

      I fucking hate psychopathic stuff. Yeah I kinda get what she means, but “Listen to yourself” to “hear God” isn’t good advice.

      LikeLike


      • on May 28, 2014 at 6:37 pm gaoxiaen

        Yeah. You might be channeling Norman Bates.

        LikeLike


      • on May 29, 2014 at 10:24 am corvinus

        Hahahaha. Maya Angelou was just another stupid SWPL icon.

        LikeLike


  22. on May 28, 2014 at 1:02 pm chi-town

    Its basic ancertral primate logic. PUA is bad. Killing sprees are bad. bad = bad.

    I say all the misandry is directly related to feminism due to the cultural meme that men are bad. I think a deep seeded psychosis that men have oppressed women has caused a rise in lethal violence against men. If feminists would not cause such toxic attitudes towards men , surely violence against men would cease.

    LikeLike


  23. on May 28, 2014 at 1:57 pm Cad and Bounder

    This paragraph was the most interesting part of her article

    “There’s no scientific evidence to support this theory, but since it allows adherents to believe themselves to be unimpeachable victims and to blame women for their loneliness, it remains wildly popular, so much so that men seeking non-misogynist dating advice cannot find it in a sea of PUA literature.”

    1. Implying that ‘scientific evidence’ supports feminism’s viewpoint, when in fact most of what they espouse goes to great lengths to evade and ignore any scientific scrutiny, while insisting that their detractors justify every point with evidence, which they will then ‘discredit’ with some spurious theory. Think of ‘non-racist mathematics’ and ‘feminist science’. And, no I did not make those things up.

    2. Clearly, there is a gap in the marketplace that feminists could fill. How about feminist PUAs! How about Marcotte et al form a company and dispense feminist filtered PUA advice. If it works, men will pay for it, because all men really want from PUA is a relation with a woman, be it long-term or ONS, or whatever.

    Feminists could hold boot camps teaching men to approach women…

    “Hey, I was just having a de-caffeinated coffee with my friends over there and discussing why men should wear skirts to atone for the patriarchy, and I saw you and thought you looked nice. BUT, I don’t mean that in an objectifying way, I mean it that you look like the type that might want to anally violate me with a strap-on, because I’m down with gender neutralism in relationships. Wasn’t ‘The Bell Jar’ a brilliant book?”

    Feminist PUAs. It’s about time they revealed their secrets, and had the rigour of their theories about what women want were tested out in the only place that matters. You know, the real world.

    LikeLike


    • on May 28, 2014 at 7:16 pm ACG1

      Feminists are just as illiterate in basic economics as they are in biology/evolution. The implications of the fact that only “misogynistic” dating advice ever survives on the market are totally lost on them.

      LikeLike


  24. on May 28, 2014 at 2:01 pm Knowbody

    Fighting the good fight int he washington post article…you can declare victory when they’ve simply resorted to shaming.

    Don’t do as I and waste time arguing with feminsts. Their shaming tactic is literally the adult translation of “nu uh poopyhead”

    LikeLike


  25. on May 28, 2014 at 2:46 pm Amanjaw Marcuntte’s Singularly False Premise | Reaction Times

    […] Source: Heartiste […]

    LikeLike


  26. on May 28, 2014 at 3:01 pm willam001@gmail.com

    Yeah, there was also a chick on Mashable repeatedly inciting a post author to use the term, “misogyny”.

    One guess what her profile photo looks like…

    http://mashable.com/2014/05/25/elliot-rodger-profile/

    LikeLike


  27. on May 28, 2014 at 5:00 pm Cauthon

    Thousands of muslims commit terrorism around the globe: that isn’t what Islam is really about. Not all muslims believe in that.

    One psychotic killer participates in a manosphere forum: the manosphere is a breeding ground for misogyny and is encouraging violence.

    Remember, when debating or seducing women, logic is useless.

    LikeLike


  28. on May 28, 2014 at 7:09 pm ACG1

    Serious question about PUAHate, since I never read it: Were they aware of CH?

    I can understand why they would rail against PUAs of the “Use this one WEIRD LINE to make ANY GIRL’S panties drop!” ilk. But this site is totally free of the outlandish promises and sales gimmicks that are the usual points of PUA criticism.

    I know CH caught a lot of flack for claiming that his blog could have prevented Hitler from setting the world on fire, but I suspect that if Elliot Rodger had come here and done some reading with an open mind, it really could have turned his life around.

    [CH: i wonder if those idiots ever realized that post was somewhat tongue in cheek? or is that giving them too much credit?]

    LikeLike


    • on May 29, 2014 at 10:26 am corvinus

      It’s giving them too much credit. They don’t think, they bellyfeel.

      LikeLike


  29. on May 28, 2014 at 8:38 pm jakebishop244

    Manboobs “featured” one of my posts on his blog. Unreal, how many whiny bitches there are out there, reading that ridiculous BS. He got almost 500 comments, and I got a bunch of hatemail.

    Just for basically saying that using your resources on a girl over 24 starts looking a lot like a waste of time.

    http://wehuntedthemammoth.com/2014/05/13/expat-pua-blogger-24-is-super-crazy-crazy-old-for-a-girl-17-19-past-that-if-were-going-to-get-all-about-babies-is-pretty-sketchy/comment-page-6/

    LikeLike


  30. on May 28, 2014 at 10:33 pm Moses

    “Quite the contrary, if this raving cuntess had spent one minute trawling the site she’d know that it was filled with shut-in losers who never followed PUA advice and nursed an inordinate hatred for PUA marketers whom they considered, rightly or wrongly, were pushing snake oil.”

    I’m surprised at you, CH. You’re thinking logically like a man and missing her point.

    Marcotte probably *has* spent time on PUAhate and seen that it was filled with shut-in losers who did not actually follow PUA advice.

    That doesn’t mean a thing.

    She sees an opportunity to advance the fem agenda by smearing all PUAs as violent, women-hating killers-in-waiting who need to be rounded up and monitored by the state.

    Truth’s got nothin’ to do with it.

    LikeLike


  31. on May 28, 2014 at 11:51 pm Anonymous

    Suffragette’s in Sydney 1892. Same faces, same expressions and I’d guess same ethnic groups.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2641360/From-goldfields-Sydney-society-amazing-pictures-19th-century-Sydney-reveal-lives-women-Chinese-immigrants.html

    LikeLike


  32. on May 29, 2014 at 4:35 am Schopenbecq

    Fraudtrelle is also shamelessly using the temporary boost to his dwindling traffic in order to plead for donations :

    http://theantifeminist.com/david-futrelle-exploits-the-murders-of-young-men-and-women-for-financial-gain/

    LikeLike


  33. on May 29, 2014 at 7:57 am Director

    The nearest female equivalent i’ve found to this bender is a former classmate at UCLA. She was a Trustafarian with with some serious feminist and anti racist attitudes. She went bonkers and thought she was God, look acid over a 72 hour period, smoked weed on top of it and other stuff. She went driving on an interstate and started to turn into Jesus and Vishnu in her mind then God. She must have been in quite a fucking state.

    Eventually a retired CHiPs officer found her after he was shopping at Walmart or Target. He called his buddy at the patrol and they had her committed.

    She was a real fucking mess. She’s very different now.

    LikeLike


    • on May 29, 2014 at 9:37 am no

      So who do law enforcement want to deal with more? People like her or people like E.R. or people like E.R.’s brother who seems to be a natural chick magnet and PUAs?

      LikeLike


  34. on May 29, 2014 at 9:09 am quasi

    Jessicunt Vagenti, writing in teh Grauniad, is right up there in the running for the WTF?! award:

    Regardless of Rodger’s mental health issues – which we still don’t know much about – his ideas were not “crazy” by the standards of the world today. They are the norm.

    /quote

    Fucking batshit.

    LikeLike


    • on May 29, 2014 at 9:32 am no

      Regardless of Rodger’s mental health issues – which we still don’t know much about – his ideas were not “crazy” by the standards of the world today. They are the norm.<<<

      It's important to see how she skipped right over that first part. She is not qualified to comment on his mental issues. Only a professional without an agenda to cater to feminists (a clear bias) can tell us, perhaps, what the chemical imbalances where. But she can't get to her final point about his ideas not being crazy without first evaluating that first statement, which she is not qualified to do.

      People like her have an agenda, and it's not to save lives. It's to further their power-base and more to the point, to hurt young men like E.R. People like her created the monster.

      LikeLike


  35. on May 29, 2014 at 9:26 am no

    E.R. wanted to kill his brother because he had “social savvy.” He wanted to kill his dad, because he was jealous of his fame. He hated his sister’s boyfriend, because he enjoyed sex. None of these things line up with a PUA agenda. PUA haters are liars and maybe even national terrorists in the true sense of the word.

    LikeLike


  36. on May 29, 2014 at 9:29 am no

    Quite the contrary, if this raving cuntess had spent one minute trawling the site she’d know that it was filled with shut-in losers who never followed PUA advice and nursed an inordinate hatred for PUA marketers whom they considered, rightly or wrongly, were pushing snake oil.<<<

    What does a normal person do when something doesn't work? He tries something else until he finds what does work. If PUA haters are correct then what they are preaching works and there is no need to kill anyone.

    LikeLike


  37. on May 29, 2014 at 9:37 am Canadian Friend

    Sorry to be off topic but this is shocking, In a few decades the USA will be a hell hole,

    ” Tens of thousands of children unaccompanied by parents or relatives are flooding across the southern U.S. border illegally, forcing the Obama administration and Congress to grapple with both a humanitarian crisis and a budget dilemma.

    An estimated 60,000 such children will pour into the United States this year, according to the administration, up from about 6,000 in 2011. Now, Washington is trying to figure out how to pay for their food, housing and transportation once they are taken into custody.

    The flow is expected to grow. The number of unaccompanied, undocumented immigrants who are under 18 will likely double in 2015 to nearly 130,000 and cost U.S. taxpayers $2 billion, up from $868 million this year, according to administration estimates. … ”

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/05/28/us-usa-immigration-children-idUSKBN0E814T20140528

    LikeLike


  38. on May 29, 2014 at 10:38 am AlphaBeta

    Rogers thought that having a BMW, $300 sunglasses, and being an “extreme gentleman” would get him girls. Anyone who thinks that almost certainly is not involved in the PUA scene. The fact that marcotte would think he’s a PUA pretty much proves that she’s a shitty journalist who can’t even manage the most basic research about a given subject.

    LikeLike


  39. on May 29, 2014 at 11:33 am SoSayWeAll

    Gentlemen.

    I’ve been watching this whole #yesallwomen thing unfold and it saddens me to witness first hand how in lieu of reason or common sense, we are a society ruled by opinions and feelings and those who would suggest otherwise are perceived as apostates.

    The feminist machine is well-entrenched and capable of subverting even a tragedy like this to further their own aims. In their rush for “engagement” they would use the Isla Vista murders to illustrate their talking points while completely ignoring the fact that most of those murdered did not have a vagina. This machine uses “facts”, and I use the term loosely, to bolster their argument that yes, all women are exposed daily to oppression, rape and murder – ostensibly at the hands of men.

    This myopic worldview is the problem — if you aren’t a woman then you simply don’t count and there is the crux of the problem.

    Any man, they would suggest, who believes in men being anything other than undeserving of rights, is a threat. Women, by this argument are innocent victims at every turn who deserve special attention and treatment. I would even suggest that anyone who offers an opinion not in lockstep with the current swell of opinion would have an easier time evangelizing Judaism in Iran.

    So what is a reasonable man to do? He can remain silent and wait for this tempest to fade as some new diversion draws the attention of the femiverse or he can risk personal and professional repercussions by speaking out to bring a valid perspective to a one-sided discussion.

    I put this to you all, as men. We need to be better, smarter and more organized than we are now. In lieu of ineffective ramblings, we need truths and talking points that are consistent and effective in piercing the veil of “opinion” that rules the day.

    What say you?

    LikeLike


    • on May 29, 2014 at 3:08 pm Amy

      I don’t think you have a shot with the MSM… feminism is just too entrenched. A man can have the most gentle anti-feminist talking points imaginable and he’ll still be vilified for supporting the patriarchy. Honestly I think your best weapon is women who think feminism is BS and can explain why. It’s pretty hard for feminists to successfully knock down anti-feminist women who are smart and articulate. I also think (hope) that when women get married and have sons, they see how unfair things have become and speak out.

      LikeLike


    • on May 29, 2014 at 3:12 pm Knowbody

      I too have been reading many of these outrageous tweets. Dude, the far reaches they’re going. An army of females tweeting about regularly being mistreated, raped, objectified acting as if it’s every single day and every single man in America……many suggest they live in a horrible fear of being raped AND murdered EVERY. SINGLE. DAY.

      I will say the manosphere responses to many are pure gold, and the many feminine girls also opposed to the movement are a breath of fresh air. It’s funny, the girls tweeting away against the #yesallwomen campaign are actually quite attractive.

      What is the absolute worst, the most pathetic of all….are the manboobs tweeting #yesallwomen. Vermin.

      Make a stance gentlemen, don’t give a feminist any of your time or commitment. STARVE THEM OF ANY VALIDATION

      LikeLike


  40. on May 29, 2014 at 6:05 pm judo-chop

    This post is the work of genius.

    LikeLike


  41. on June 3, 2014 at 11:00 pm Lightning Round – 2014/06/04 | Free Northerner

    […] Caitlin Dewey is a journalistic fraud. Related: BBC smears the manosphere. Related: The media is lying about the manosphere. Related: Why the media is lying. Related: Amanda Marcotte lies. […]

    LikeLike



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