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Chateau Heartiste

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« Approach Week Roundup: Updated
How The Sexes Perceive Looks Differently »

Rationalizing Fearfulness

July 8, 2014 by CH

I’ve noticed a faddishness among so-called “red pill” men lately to assert with the cynical glee of a conspiracy theorist stumbling across doubleplussecret knowledge that only men with 8-10% body fat and Hollywood good looks are capable of pulling girls cold, and that any man who falls short of those physical dimensions ought to console himself with internet porn or drop out of the mating race to “go his own way”.

Men who think like this believe that the only achievable pickup is one that starts with the woman initiating an “approach invitation”, i.e., a flirty nonverbal signal that lets a man know she will accept his approach. They believe that it is exceedingly rare to find examples of men successfully approaching inattentive or indifferent girls and earning the notch.

Rubbish. Anyone who’s lived a day in his life has witnessed (or executed) a pickup attempt that began with the man making an unsolicited approach and progressed to the woman gradually warming up with romantic interest. Not only does it happen all the time in real life, but our literature is replete with caddish, not-particularly-handsome characters who not only cold approached and defiled initially indifferent women, but often took up the challenge of seducing actively hostile women.

The female “approach invitation” doubtless adds a layer of efficiency to the mating market, (a phenomenon that in theory would be more frequent in r-selection societies), but it by no means is a prerequisite for love, or lust, to bloom. If anything, women have traditionally sought to suppress their approach invitations so that only the boldest, and hence most desirable, men would solicit them. Chicks dig an entitled jerkboy who doesn’t need an air traffic controller to wave him onto a woman’s landing strip.

Two kinds of men are zealous followers of the “8-10% body fat seduction” religion: Very good-looking but socially shy and/or lazy men who have spent a lifetime relying on female approach invitations to get laid, and shut-ins with a persecution complex who have a strong psychological need to blame their romantic inertia on external forces beyond their ability to control or shape.

Blaming failure, or attributing success, with women on one’s looks is a classic case of psychological projection of innate male desire. Men desire a woman’s looks first and foremost, and so men get trapped into thinking women desire the same thing to the same degree of exclusion. Women certainly value male looks, but not nearly with the same intensity or single-mindedness that men value female looks. Evidence for this sex disparity abounds: The ugly man with a hot girlfriend is a far more common occurrence than the ugly woman with the dashing, successful man. Furthermore, we can find emanations and penumbras of the lower value women place on male looks in how women react to men who are excessively preoccupied with their superficial appearance: Simply, it repulses women.

(Excessively preening women can mildly annoy some men, but most men won’t complain because the payoff of female attention to beautification is too great.)

The strange male inverse bravado that accompanies proselytization of the “8-10% body fat seduction” religion is nothing more than rationalizing fearfulness. Men who, for whatever reasons, are fearful of boldly introducing themselves to women to start a conversation with the intent of sparking an eventual sexual flame will soothe their egos with a litany of palatable excuses for their failure to launch. And one such handy excuse that seems to work with urgent plausibility is the “I don’t look like Hugh Jackman on HGH and that’s why I can’t get a cute girlfriend.”

This particular male hamster is an endurance athlete. He spins in his wheel for a long time without needing rest because it’s easier to focus the rodent’s eye on the men with top 1% looks who get a lot of glances from women, rather than to turn the rodent’s eye inward to take painful account of one’s own timidity.

It may be a simpler task to visually isolate the good-looking men from the charmers who got their women with the nimbleness of their tongues or the social lords who got theirs with the rule of their fiefdoms, but it’s also dangerously misleading. FACT: What women consider good-looking in men is far less inclusive than what men consider good-looking in women. FACT: Women are far less likely to solicit or passively pursue men they find good-looking than are men to pursue women they find good-looking.

This means, in practice, that very few men can rely on their looks for “fool’s mate” lays. Now, obviously, there is a much larger population of men who aren’t in the top 1% of male looks who nevertheless manage to get laid and build relationships with cute girls. How do these homely fuckers do it? It’s not such a mystery if you understand and accept that men can leverage much more than their looks to attract and woo women. The mystery is further demystified when you accept that there are men bolder and more confident than you are who didn’t allow their fear to condemn them to masturbatory inaction.

In other words…

they

busted

a

move.

Male “8-10% body fat” rationalization of fearfulness to approach and risk female rejection is the mirror image of a woman rationalizing her failure to get a man to commit by blaming his “issues” instead of blaming his reticence on the more distinct probability that she wasn’t pretty or caring enough for him to lavish her with long-term love and provisioning.

Both rationalizations stem from a similar psychological dynamic to avoid self-assessment that is responsive to sex-specific corrective action.

Whenever you hear a “red pill” man drone about seduction being nothing more than waiting around for a girl who likes your particular look to bat her eyes at you, know that you are reading the whiny excuse-mongering of a man who is allergic to cold approaching. He is giving you an incomplete picture because he doesn’t want to admit to himself that he shits his pants at the thought of starting conversations with women who aren’t prescreened in advance for receptivity.

None of this post should be misconstrued as support for the opposite claim that a man’s looks don’t matter at all, or that female approach invitations won’t grease the skids to sex. Quite the contrary, all else equal, a good-looking man will have an easier go of it than an ugly man, and a man who was cued to approach will have better odds than a man who approached a woman who gave no flirty cues.

Think of this post instead as a corrective to falsely dichotomous thinking like that exhibited by adherents to the “8-10% body fat seduction” religion. A corrective that appears to be more necessary than ever, because the internet disease of ego preservation at all costs is a mind virus that infects even supposedly clear-thinking, self-anointed dissidents to the blue pill orthodoxy.

To demonstrate my good faith to my readers, here is a picture of a very ugly man who will not ever be banging hard 10s:

when fupas meet

Judgment rendered? Hold on. Imagine this man without the goony accoutrement and dressed in stylish clothes that at the least don’t blatantly advertise his obesity. Now imagine he has read this blog and learned some basic game concepts and has increased his charisma roll by +2. Let’s further stipulate that he has taken the big step of actually going up to girls to talk to them, refusing to surrender to his fear. Maybe he’s even lost twenty pounds, and looks a little less hideous at first sight.

No, he still won’t bang hard 10s, nor, for that matter, soft 6s and 7s. Probably not even lumpy 4s and 5s. But he will be able to realistically trade up from a monstrous pig-faced 0 to, say, a chubby and conspicuously female 2 or 3. And that improvement in his love prospects will feel to him, a man heretofore parched of attention from recognizably human females, like an embarrassment of harem riches.

So you can swallow the “red pill” of rationalized powerlessness, or you can slap away the hands holding these pills and confront the mating market’s challenges with your vision unblurred by drug-induced hallucination.

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Posted in Beta, Closing the Deal, Rules of Manhood, The Id Monster | 215 Comments

215 Responses

  1. on July 8, 2014 at 3:47 pm quorasdesignatedasshole

    If only he focused his life on three things…

    1. Getting good at business strategy and negotiations (aka sales)
    2. Lifting thrice a week and eating lots of proteins
    3. Learning and applying game

    Even this lump could someday transform himself.

    And the transformation could happen in as little as a few months.

    I know, because I was once that obese.

    LikeLike


    • on July 8, 2014 at 3:55 pm quorasdesignatedasshole

      Approach week roundup:

      Only went out once. Didn’t have time other than Saturday.

      Approaching 20+ girls. Not a single hard rejection. Many “Oh, I have a boyfriend” or other such excuses. But only on direct approaches.

      Then I started doing indirect. Situational openers. If the girl wasn’t into the conversation, I just moved on. Yeah, yeah, I know. Should have tried at least twice. But I didn’t.

      Met a Thai girl at an exhibition I went to late that evening. Tourist. Very slender. Very cute. More cute than sexy.

      She was obviously into me the moment I started talking to her. She was shy to the touch at first. But as the evening progressed, I kept touching her, while never verbally expressing my sexual desire or attraction.

      Language barrier made it possible to focus on the fun and games more than conversation anyway.

      Number closed her late that night when her friends showed up after kissing her hard.

      Just came back from a date with her today. Date at Starbucks. Bought a large coffee for both of us. That’s it. An hour later, took a stroll in the central park before taking her home. I said “Let’s go have ice cream.” She’s like “sure” and then I took her home.

      Started getting hot and heavy as soon as we got into the elevator. By the time we got to the apartment, we were practically undressed.

      A little token resistance later, I was inside of her. Fucked her for an hour at least before getting some food, then fucking her again.

      She’s going to be here for a month, and is not averse to the idea of meeting up again.

      -QDA

      P.S. I have a gf, and she knows I am not exclusive to her.

      LikeLike


      • on July 8, 2014 at 5:38 pm R1J2

        That’s awesome, congrats. Like reading stories like these.

        LikeLike


    • on July 8, 2014 at 5:40 pm immoralgables

      [I know, because I was once that obese.]

      Props

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      • on July 8, 2014 at 6:41 pm quorasdesignatedasshole

        Still working on getting the fat down, but it’s no big deal. Changed the overall lifestyle (eating and lifting) and it reflects automatically. Couple more years and I’ll be down to sub 12%.

        But who cares! I’m not fat anymore.

        Being fat, though is a real downer. It’s basically you screaming “Hey look, what a loser I am. I don’t even respect my own body. Don’t trust me with your money, or your body, or any asset really. Because I won’t take care of it, like I didn’t take care of my own fucking body.”

        So yeah fatness gotta go.

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      • on July 8, 2014 at 7:52 pm cynthia

        OT, but this is what I really admire about men (as a woman). A man looks at a socially undesirable or disadvantageous character trait and says “you know what, I’m going to do something about this” whereas a woman looks at the same thing and says “everyone must love me anyway!”

        Whether that’s a learned (“socialized”) behavior or a natural difference between the male and female mind, I don’t know.

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      • on July 8, 2014 at 10:58 pm quorasdesignatedasshole

        cynthia…

        That is just a consequence of the natural female solipsism. Eggs being more precious than sperm, and women being coddled while men are shamed… leads to the female behaviour consistent with their solipsistic worldview.

        Though I can’t say most men set out to change their lives either. Nor can I say that no woman ever set out to change her life. Haven’t we seen so many fatties get down to 125 pounds?

        But you’re right, on an average, men seem to be more willing to start their journeys compared to women… and that is natural if you take into account our risk-taking capacities, as well as our more realistic and objective worldview.

        LikeLike


      • on July 9, 2014 at 8:57 am gunslingergregi

        come on Cynthia how many boob jobs have been done and how much liposuction on men compared to woman gtfo lol

        LikeLike


      • on July 9, 2014 at 8:58 am gunslingergregi

        I think you mean a man looks at a problem and solves it and a woman gets someone else to solve it

        LikeLike


      • on July 9, 2014 at 9:18 am MZ

        Also women have the sisterhood that lie to them and tell them that they’re beautiful.

        LikeLike


      • on July 9, 2014 at 5:40 pm cynthia

        Aren’t boob jobs and liposuction little more than a woman getting someone else to fix a problem for her?

        LikeLike


      • on July 9, 2014 at 9:49 pm gunslingergregi

        exactly he he he

        LikeLike


      • on July 10, 2014 at 7:40 am Arbiter

        Cynthia, what you are talking about is not really male vs. female (as some here will claim) but Right vs. Left. The Right is focused on building, and therefore has to tell the truth about things. You can’t build if you ignore the facts when you measure the building blocks.’

        The Left is focused on attacking. Therefore they gather the lowest in every category, by promising them a license to vice, promising them that they can be lazy, that they have no faults, that the high in whatever category are evil. They started out by using illiterate peasants moving to the cities, who couldn’t understand why the men with glasses sitting behind desks and writing strange symbols on paper could make more money than they did. Flatter, a promise of less work, of not having to improve, did the trick. They have used that with every category ever since. With women as well as the rest.

        You know this of course, but sometimes it is worth spelling it out. It isn’t true that women as a whole refuse to improve, while men don’t. I have known plenty of conservative women who think differently. I have known a fat woman who was intelligent and nice, and who didn’t demand that fatness be considered beautiful. (Both her parents were fat, that’s where she got it. Growing up, she never stood a chance.) These kind of people put things in context. But yes, on average women are more prone to make excuses for flaws than men are. As long as there is an ideology that encourages such behavior.

        It surely wasn’t so in the past, when husband and wife would clear the wilderness together and build themselves a new home and farmland.

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    • on July 8, 2014 at 11:09 pm RambleAround

      Right on que, fat women need to be empowered:
      http://healthyliving.msn.com/health-wellness/many-obese-women-face-stigma-every-day-study-finds-1

      LikeLike


      • on July 9, 2014 at 9:08 am quorasdesignatedasshole

        Yeah, the poor fatties who can’t help downing a large tub of ice-cream every night, a dozen fried chickens every two days and enough chocolate to feed 10 african children if they were living on chocolate alone… these pro fatties of need to be empowered.

        LikeLike


    • on July 9, 2014 at 8:43 am SolInvictus

      Just to offer a little balance of perspective… Back when I was overweight (though still not nearly as tubby as the guy in the picture), I think I actually had an easier time with women. It was during that period that I set my personal records of both quality and frequency (bedding 4 in one day in separate encounters). All ranged between 7’s-9’s. (Not to promote unrealistic expectations, all were products of significant work and setup during prior months).
      The only substantive difference between then and now, I made more money then.
      I’m now more fit and more knowledgeable, but having the appeal of being a potential breadwinner and the unconscious cavalier confidence that a little wealth bestows… it’s a boost to SMV easily on par with an ab transplant and low body fat.

      Thought the above might give the chunky brethren some hope and motivation. Advance yourself materially, portray some smug charming superiority, and socialize (have fun with it even if being outgoing is difficult for you), and I can say, from experience, you will bat waaay out of your league with a little time and effort.
      Honest to god… and it’s difficult for me to understand even now, I think some women even like the plushness more (within limits).

      LikeLike


      • on July 9, 2014 at 9:06 am quorasdesignatedasshole

        The power of money and wealth is often downplayed around these parts.

        LikeLike


      • on July 9, 2014 at 9:15 am gunslingergregi

        yea cause badboy equals no money except they going to jail cause they making money it ain’t for shit else
        the people in charge don’t want men at the bottom to make more money than they do

        LikeLike


      • on July 9, 2014 at 9:51 am SolInvictus

        “quorasdesignatedasshole
        The power of money and wealth is often downplayed around these parts.”

        Yeah… I never have understood that. They’re only the most tried and true traditional mechanisms of male SMV…
        Charisma is great and all, but a man is positively anemic without the bolstering of at least a little of those (again, from experience). And you can be the most charismatic guy on the planet, but if you’re too broke to get out of the house and successfully market yourself, what good does it do you.

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      • on July 9, 2014 at 10:11 pm gunslingergregi

        it might be big is thought to be able to fight better
        my bitch thinks I can take anyone in a fight although since i been back from where i was I haven’t even been in a fight
        realistically I can take most dudes but yea he he he

        LikeLike


      • on July 9, 2014 at 10:15 pm gunslingergregi

        although dude I put in the headlock I could of thrown around like a childs toy he was thin so maybe some truth to it
        I throw her around on dancefloor with one hand she over 100 pounds so
        maybe also where she gets the assurance too

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  2. on July 8, 2014 at 3:52 pm Just Saying

    only men with 8-10% body fat and Hollywood good looks are capable of pulling girls cold

    Utter non-sense. I’m 50+, not in particularly good shape, and regularly bed women that are at least 9’s, and about 30 years younger than I am. Why? Because if they aren’t, they don’t interest me, and I’m only going after the ones that interest me. Now, I’ll admit that it’s gotten harder as I’ve gotten older, but I’ve gotten smarter, and have a lot more experience under my belt. And I’ll admit to stacking the deck in my favor in as many ways as I can – but that is what life is all about – stacking the deck in your favor. Don’t believe me? Read Sun Tsu’s Art of War – he was a major advocate of only going into battle when you knew the outcome.

    So, I see the above argument as just an excuse for the guys that don’t want to put in the time. And that’s fine – leaves more for me. But don’t blame fate, or women, when the fault lies closer to home. You can say it isn’t so as much as you want, and I really couldn’t care less – but you’re just lying to yourself.

    LikeLike


    • on July 10, 2014 at 7:57 pm looks_matter_you_stupid_fucks

      Yea sure dude. Either you live in Thailand or you’re full of shit. I’ve been in the “game” for over 10 years. One part of getting good is keeping a very keen eye out for what sort of dude “9s” and the like are with. See a hot girl with a dude, check out the dude ( no homo ). What kind of clothes, body posture, behavior, body type, face type, etc etc

      After doing this for years, I’ve never ever seen a 50+ year old man with a young 20 y/o hottie unless it was blatant prostitution. Also, nine times out of ten when I see a very good looking girl, the guy is tall and buff. Doesn’t necessarily have an amazing face but still decent. All this talk about “average” looking guys going out with hot girls based on cold approach and verbal game is horse shit.

      Maybe it’s just my area ( east coast metropolis USA ) but I never ever see guys with hot girls who themselves are not “hot” too.

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  3. on July 8, 2014 at 4:06 pm Zombie Shane

    I will say this, though – if I kinda/sorta had my eye on a chick, and if I know some of the personal background which is involved, and if I come to discover that she is fucking some loser jackass dweeb simply because he used “Humiliation” [i.e. hard neg] Game on her, then I immediately lose ALL RESPECT for her [and especially I lose all respect for her FATHER who failed to prepare her for it].

    In my experience, hardcore Leftist dudes [trotskyite/gramsciite/very violent/ultra nihilistic] use that shit on their bitches, and it works wonders for them.

    And their bitches are very, very, very Dark.

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    • on July 8, 2014 at 4:23 pm Zombie Shane

      > “very violent”

      I actually know [and/or know of] some crazy Leftist dudes who are GUN NUTS, which is some scary, scary shit – there’s a reason that 75 million people were murdered after the Left came to power in Russia in 1917, and another 125 million in China, after 1949.

      I am talking about some dark, ugly, hate-filled characters, and those dudes score some serious HAWT [albeit completely evil] poontang.

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      • on July 8, 2014 at 4:33 pm Zombie Shane

        I’m talking some fat ugly pudgy dudes, too – zero athleticism, zero athletic talent, middling academic talent – and pretty much all of them are either alcoholics or at least drink very heavily many nights a week.

        One of them had the CUTEST wife, and I learned recently that he was beating the crap out of her [like felony assault on a regular basis].

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      • on July 8, 2014 at 4:40 pm Zombie Shane

        Meant to say, “zero athleticism, zero ARTISTIC talent”.

        And none of them have any money to speak of – most of them are always just barely making ends meet.

        But God damn it, those “Blue State” whores – I’m talking objectively some seriously fine poontang here – will spread their legs for a leninist/trotskyite who dishes out the hardcore Humiliation Game.

        LikeLike


      • on July 9, 2014 at 4:42 am SFG

        Thanks for the hint, Zombie Shane. 😉

        LikeLike


      • on July 9, 2014 at 9:16 am SolInvictus

        I’ve said it before on here elsewhere, but the most darkly submissive girls I’ve ever met have always been the leftiest.
        I mean, uber-dark. It’s hard to even paint the picture for someone unless they’ve known one of these, so I get where you were coming from with the comment.
        Think… super-Dem, super-Fem, anti-racist, anti-white, anti-patriarchy, granola, etcetcetc By Day,
        But by Night, daaayum.
        Piss guzzling, incest and rape fantasizing, beat me, cut me, bleed me, expose me, pimp me out, fuck me in a shallow grave, and whatever other evil shit you can can conjure. The darker, the wetter they get. And I’m not exaggerating in any way. At All.

        I’m not averse to kink in the least… but these types of girls will seriously screw up your ability to look at women as being the same species if interacted with too often. I like to class them as a heavy sexual narcotic that should either be indulged in with extreme care for moderation or avoided altogether for sanity and avoiding jail time.
        Seriously, get sucked into that vortex combining the lightning strike to your dormant god complex and libido, you’re on your way to Manson town.
        I was a far less sociopathic person before exposure to that gamma burst of sexy evil… though I won’t deny, it’s made that “dark triad” draw child’s play since.

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      • on July 9, 2014 at 9:25 am Zombie Shane

        Preaching to the choir, my brother, preaching to the choir.

        There’s a reason that they call it the DARK Arts.

        Some scary, scary shit. And some lost souls just biding their time on this Earth before they head off to spend all eternity with the Father of Lies.

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      • on July 9, 2014 at 9:54 pm gunslingergregi

        Seriously, get sucked into that vortex combining the lightning strike to your dormant god complex and libido, you’re on your way to Manson town.
        I was a far less sociopathic person before exposure to that gamma burst of sexy evil… though I won’t deny, it’s made that “dark triad” draw child’s play since.”””””””’

        yea I think ya kind of have to be older to handle a bitch like that where ya can do anything
        when I was younger a bitch like that scared the shit out of me
        no limit
        it is crazy and tempting to prove

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      • on July 9, 2014 at 10:04 pm gunslingergregi

        thinking back I should of kept the bitch

        LikeLike


    • on July 9, 2014 at 10:59 am SolInvictus

      Do you ever post on AmRen? Your posts remind me of someone on there.
      If you’re in the South, we should grab a beer sometime.
      My wing-man skills are legendary and it’d be interesting to see what kind of trouble me and you would get into.

      Actually, it’d be fun to put together a pub crawl or something similar with CH regulars (some of you anyway). People ought to chime in with their general location if they’d be in for something like that.

      I wonder if whorefinder says “rape” constantly in real life like he has Tourette’s or something…

      LikeLike


  4. on July 8, 2014 at 4:11 pm Modern Primitive

    Are you referring to the red pill subreddit CH? I’ve spent some time over there and come to the conclusion that a tonne of them aren’t quite as red pill as they imagine themselves.

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  5. on July 8, 2014 at 4:14 pm immoralgables

    Most manosphere commenters are too bitter too approach and too wrapped up in their fragile self image.

    Because to approach would mean making yourself vulnerable

    And making yourself vulnerable would mean risking rejection

    And risking rejection would mean perhaps actually getting rejected

    And actually getting rejected means that your reality right then and there doesn’t sync with this persona you put up on the web

    And well when that happens….

    Ah fuck it I’ll just stay typing my successful field reports so my .1000 batting average with past successes will keep my ego safe and sound

    : )

    LikeLike


    • on July 8, 2014 at 5:16 pm ballocaust

      the term is batting 1.000. as in you hit every time, numerator = denominator

      thought y’all were supposed to be good at maths n shit.

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      • on July 8, 2014 at 5:34 pm immoralgables

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    • on July 9, 2014 at 2:00 am The Most Interesting Man in the World

      you’re the one who’s shitposting accusations about mental masturbators and whatnot, based on nothing. I get it, you’re trying to assert your dominance (albeit pathetically on a blog) by showing us that you are A MAN OF ACTION and the rest of us just DON’T GO OUT. But anybody with half a brain can see through your posturing and suss out the insecurities underneath. It doesn’t help that you crib words and phrases from other posters like YaReally because you’re too weak to form your own identity. And it wasn’t too long ago when you were shitposting here about how much of an incel faggot you are.

      you have a gay sparkly avatar, used a smiley face at the end of your post in a blog read by mostly men, your BFF Scray is a short black leprechaun that cried that he is too dark and short to attract women, and you constantly post text exchanges with women where you crash and burn with them so much that Heartiste even featured one of your mishaps in a blog post.

      just calm down dude, you aren’t fooling anyone but yourself by acting like a jersey shore macho reject.

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  6. on July 8, 2014 at 4:29 pm Troubadour

    It’s nice to hear someone who agrees with me on this issue. I get sick of the red pill guys talking about getting ripped as the way to be a real man. Getting ripped is the way to maximize your attractiveness to FAGS. Who do you find in the gym obsessing over getting the last bit of cut defined in their abs? FAGS!

    Of course girls love looking at ripped guys, but most guys don’t have the time and dedication to get ripped. If you think you can’t change your life until you achieve something ridiculously hard like that, you’re never going to be able to change your life, and you’ll just keep making excuses forever.

    I have a pretty big gut, and I’m rather flabby, but none of that is stopping me from getting laid. My inability to flirt with girls is stopping me from getting laid. I accept that. That is what I have to concentrate on addressing. Going to the gym is only going to get me laid if I want to fuck fags. It wouldn’t hurt me to go to the gym, but with my free time being as limited as it is, the gym is not the place to invest if I want girls.

    I hope this wife as social proof thing works. So far, so bad, but the jury is still out.

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    • on July 8, 2014 at 6:33 pm gunslingergregi

      it would help make it easier to be in shape
      but yea ya don’t really need it
      my girl just crying in kitchen cause the bitch next door was hitting on me hard I guess
      I wasn’t hitting on her but talkin
      she had my hand in hers touchin my hand and shit
      talkin bout she can’t grow her nails or some shit
      I do know in club when I was in shape I had a girl every time I went to club
      didn’t have 6 pack but was strong as fuck
      my girl said she was trying to talk to me and I was staring into space
      I been drinking too though lol
      she said I was thinking about taking that chick downstairs and fucking with her
      and the chick was thinking about taking me upstairs to the bed
      he he he

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    • on July 8, 2014 at 10:54 pm Therajraj

      You still have to look presentable. If you’re fat the average is probably worried you’ll crush her

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      • on July 8, 2014 at 10:55 pm Therajraj

        *Average woman

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    • on July 9, 2014 at 6:41 am Knowbody

      spoken like a true fatty…delusional

      a man that makes time to eat right and exercise exudes drive, ambition, investment, attention to details, impulse control, etc in other things throughout his life. Few people ever really rally behind a big flabby mess. The majority of fatties are poor people. I’ve never known natural alphas in the upper echelon fields to be fat, period.

      The anti-lift crowd is always so black and white…either fat sloppy mess or chiseled 7% BF is all there is. Get to the gym, eat right, build a little size in your chest, shoulders, arms and cut down to like 12%, you’ll physically appeal to 90% of women and after you get there it’s mostly easy 2-3 day a week maintenance. There’s no excuse for a man to have soft spaghetti undefined arms and a big fat belly. Above all, it will make you exponentially more confident. The first time you are publicly complimented by an attractive female you’ve never met based on your physique will send your confidence and ego skyrocketing. Not only that but dude, from your posts you may get your wife’s hamster spinning and get off her fat ass to make some changes. Come home one day and say, “there will be no junk food in this house from now on, we’re going to make some changes”

      LikeLike


      • on July 9, 2014 at 7:12 am Troubadour

        Spoken like a true red pill guy.

        I’m not delusional, I’m picking my battles, and prioritizing.

        I look good enough to get random compliments on my looks while still carrying way too much body fat.

        However, I finally approached a pretty girl tonight, and almost ended up in jail. My game needs a LOT more work than my abs.

        I’m not delusional, I’m pragmatic.

        LikeLike


      • on July 9, 2014 at 9:20 am SatyrWolf

        @ Knowbody

        Yeah….if you could stop fatty bashing that’ll be great.

        The main reason to get exercising isn’t for physical appeal, it’s to help with testosterone levels. The fact that you tone up, lose weight, and gain endurance is secondary to the rush of testosterone being released from being held in fat cells.

        Truth of the matter is that a strong frame overcomes physical appearance, not the other way around. If I had to pick between hitting the gym and practicing my approach my workout clothes would stay neatly folded in my bag.

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      • on July 9, 2014 at 9:34 am Amy

        Knowbody is right. Guys with good upper body development are hot. It has visceral sexual appeal. You don’t have to be a bodybuilder to get there, either. And I’m not buying this “frame overcomes fat and flabby” argument. I’d be embarrassed to date a fat guy. It suggests laziness and lack of discipline, totally unattractive qualities in a man.

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      • on July 9, 2014 at 9:36 am SolInvictus

        ” The majority of fatties are poor people. I’ve never known natural alphas in the upper echelon fields to be fat, period.”

        Babe Roth, Belushi, like almost every titan of industry or king that had age and diet catch up with them.
        The whole looks-like-Conan=Real Man™ concept is fairly recent (and male body building/beauty contests is about the gayest thing on God’s green earth other than professional wrestling).
        Not saying being obese and completely out of shape is good, or manly, but your observation about fat & alpha leaders is just wrong.

        LikeLike


      • on July 9, 2014 at 12:08 pm SatyrWolf

        @ Amy

        Pfft.

        LikeLike


      • on July 9, 2014 at 10:22 pm gunslingergregi

        Knowbody is right. Guys with good upper body development are hot.”””””

        only takes 50 reps and chest is tight

        LikeLike


      • on July 10, 2014 at 6:25 am Knowbody

        @ SatyrWolf “Yeah….if you could stop fatty bashing that’ll be great.”

        Don’t be a woman.

        What are you actually doing in pursuit of “better spent time on framing and pickup?” Like really, it’s a mental state…if anything go lift for the meditation and reflection, it’s a good time to be in your own head and will help unravel many of the inner puzzles. I’ve had many moments of clarity in the middle of lifting or jogging. seriously, 3-4 hrs a week.

        so many extremes, it’s either real men are conan or don’t lift at all in here.

        I don’t even actively go out of my own way, especially not sacrifice my own time or hobbies chasing tail. Yes of course, make opportunities such as building a social life but when your goal is strictly the girl we all should know by now that’s not the way of the player.

        LikeLike


  7. on July 8, 2014 at 4:33 pm Rationalizing Fearfulness | Manosphere.com

    […] Rationalizing Fearfulness […]

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  8. on July 8, 2014 at 4:51 pm Skip

    Is this a response to the site “Good Looking Loser”? If so, that site does advise getting low bf% as well as putting on muscle. It also advises dressing stylish with edge approaching a shit ton of women and being very aggressive.

    I don’t see this 8-10% religion you speak of in the red-pill world. I think you are attacking a straw man.

    LikeLike


    • on July 8, 2014 at 9:43 pm Arbiter

      Not a strawman, it exists. Guys show up in a lot of places talking about “it’s all about looks and the rest of this is just to trick guys to stay at your site” etc.

      You seem to take this post personally.

      LikeLike


    • on July 8, 2014 at 9:54 pm Scray

      I see it a lot. The bodybuilding misc section is a great example, too.

      LikeLike


    • on July 8, 2014 at 11:03 pm KungPao

      I thought the same thing too. I like GLL. His approach method is fucking awesome and weeds out the chaff but I don’t take the ‘just look awesome’ advice too seriously. I’ve charmed and fucked too many women to know that it isn’t the magical key.

      That being said, I don’t fuck 9’s and 10’s. GLL does and he does it in the merciless LA scene. Give me a 6 or 7 whose not fat with big tits and I’m happier than a pig in shit. It’s the same thing with Mystery and peacocking. Lotsa girls say it looks stupid and they ridicule it, but Mystery wasn’t going for gutter sluts, he was going for the prize girls, who aren’t the girls who were ridiculing him.

      I still maximize my looks whenever possible and workout to get big because it’s a worthy goal, but I know it’ll be my words, posture and tone that will do most of the seduction for me.

      LikeLike


  9. on July 8, 2014 at 4:58 pm Johnycomelately

    “The female approach invitation.”

    A problem with this technique is that women will often shut down in the presence of attractive men, men aren’t the only gender to get nervous.

    Anyone that has to crow from the top of every hill that they are ’empowered’ is anything but.

    Having coached female sports (girls in their prime) I can assure the men out there that most women are nervous wrecks.

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    • on July 9, 2014 at 6:50 am Tilikum

      yeah, they are fucking nervous wrecks. tru dat.

      LikeLike


    • on July 9, 2014 at 9:07 am Charlie Don't Surf

      This puzzles me. Girls get nervous – and under pressure – choke the big play. OK – But “shut down in the presence of attractive men”? I can’t picture it.

      The indications of nervousness – shy looks, wide eyes, blushing, giggling, playing with their hair, etc – mimic the “the female approach invitation”. I mean, hell – it is the invitation. And add to that – they paint themselves up to look nervous – rouge, raise eyebrows, mascara, fluffed hair – all that shit.

      Sit there and look nervous … where’s the pressure?

      LikeLike


  10. on July 8, 2014 at 5:09 pm thrust

    needed this.

    heavy drama lately – it’s been affecting any mojo i have when i bounce – difficult enough that i’m not decent in clubs/always on alert for shit hitting fan.

    friday night shall be different.

    LikeLike


    • on July 8, 2014 at 5:24 pm thrust

      fuck me if im not zombie shane replying to my own feces – i’m looking for environment (club)/gig suitable (bouncer) one-liners to throw on my prey.

      all i need is a few to get the creative juices flowing in my favour. too bad i lost my copy of Roadhouse.

      LikeLike


      • on July 8, 2014 at 6:07 pm ballocaust

        ID negs or compliments. pretend to disqualify from bar them so they have to qualify to you.
        “i don’t think dats u, whas it a bad hair day or somethin?” vs.
        “did you borrow this from your sister? b/c you look way too young for diz fine establishment”

        can quiz on ID stats like yer not sure, particularly for out-of-towners
        “hmm idk; whats ur address? haha ok u got me, you sound like a Cali/w/e girl”
        “OK, how tall are you? what, is that with shoes on b/c you don’t look over 5’0″ to me”

        playful accusations/recruitment related to job
        “idk you look like more than i can handle, don’t get in to too much trouble”
        “you look like you can hold yer stuff, keep an eye on [ppl/person in group] for me if they get outta line”

        not grade A stuff but its for the free.

        LikeLike


      • on July 8, 2014 at 6:23 pm thrust

        that’s good – but i’m not outside doing ID’s.

        I roam inside.

        LikeLike


      • on July 9, 2014 at 6:54 am Tilikum

        one that always works for me is this. look around in a preoccupied way when a girl comes up. tell her “im always kinda nervous i wont be the best looking guy in the bar” smile big, the “but thank god i still am!”

        use it all the time.

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      • on July 9, 2014 at 10:40 am thrust

        heh, thanks – shall try friday

        LikeLike


    • on July 9, 2014 at 8:15 pm gunslingergregi

      hey thrust figure out how to do the bodyguard shit you brought it up more than once try it

      LikeLike


  11. on July 8, 2014 at 5:19 pm anonymous does not forgive

    >But he will be able to realistically trade up from a monstrous pig-faced 0 to, say, a chubby and conspicuously female 2 or 3

    Not worth all the effort. As a guy like this I can jerk off to 10s on the internet and pay about $300 to have an hour of sex with an actual 9. And I don’t have to deal with all the bullshit that comes with dating and being in a relationshit.

    LikeLike


    • on July 8, 2014 at 5:28 pm ballocaust

      that feel when generations of patriarchs handed preserved your y-chromosome so you could say fuck it and fap outrageous to Schekelstein Productions Bukkake Wars 5

      LikeLike


      • on July 8, 2014 at 8:37 pm anonymous does not forgive

        >implying anything matters but flooding my brain with endorphins

        LikeLike


  12. on July 8, 2014 at 5:21 pm Rationalizing Fearfulness | Chateau Heartiste : How To Attract A Girl | Welcome!

    […] View article: Rationalizing Fearfulness | Chateau Heartiste […]

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  13. on July 8, 2014 at 5:25 pm ballocaust

    counting bodyfat % is for pro athletes and bros who need more hobbies.

    but generally if you’re a schlubby piece of shit and you want to be the fucking man you should probably get your compound lift game up and stop gorging on sugars/carbs like a bitch

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    • on July 8, 2014 at 5:34 pm thrust

      in a nutshell.

      LikeLike


    • on July 9, 2014 at 6:55 am Tilikum

      heh heh

      LikeLike


  14. on July 8, 2014 at 5:26 pm Mark

    Speaking of approach invitations, I approached a girl last week who gave me a pretty clear AI – smiling at me in a dour waiting room where we were the only ones waiting.

    End result? Ten minutes of conversation and no number. An AI is not the end-all be-all.

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    • on July 8, 2014 at 5:33 pm immoralgables

      Hey man such is the fallacy of relying on IOIs.

      Quite frankly, if you’re only relying on them you’re being a pussy.

      The true art is in the cold-approach. That is, when she doesn’t see you coming. I’m not saying jump out of a dark corner and surprise the fuck out of her but if you’re only waiting for the IOI you’re going to be a dissapointed guy, my oh my.

      Some truth from the field:
      1) Girls that give you “IOIs” can/will be cold as fuck when you approach
      2) Girls that don’t give you “IOI”s (don’t see you at all) can/will be cold OR warm off the approach
      3) Girls that have the resting bitch-face can/will be receptive as fuck off the approach.

      What I’m saying is, anything is possible. Psyching yourself out waiting for her approach invitation will fuck you up even more as you have more time to be in your head.

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      • on July 8, 2014 at 6:55 pm letterofthelaw

        sounds about right

        LikeLike


      • on July 8, 2014 at 11:22 pm coolhandle

        “Hey man such is the fallacy of relying on IOIs. Quite frankly, if you’re only relying on them you’re being a pussy.”

        If I don’t get an IOI, I don’t approach, period. Two eye contacts from her, if I like what I see, I approach. But cold approach without IOI in my experience equals her total befuddlement, verging on fear, alarm, finger poised on 911. There’s nothing pussy about relying on IOIs: it’s a way for women — who are naturally timid, terrified of rejection, fearful of seeming slutty — to show their interest without risking anything.

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      • on July 9, 2014 at 6:56 am Tilikum

        but when you are good looking and get them a lot you get lazy.

        people act how they can.

        i know i do.

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      • on July 9, 2014 at 10:13 am SolInvictus

        Maybe it’s just me, but all this over thinking things seems to be much more destructive than helpful.
        I find I have exponentially better results when I:
        A. Do not explicitly set out in my endeavors to find ass but rather to enjoy myself (optimally in close proximity to ass).
        B. Have fun.
        C. My approach consists merely of acting like a man, being fun but not a douche, and genuinely not giving two shits about whether they approve of me.
        If they are warm and receptive, great. If they’re a cunt, I’m not going to plumb my brain for tiers of psy-op strategy to woo them. I move on and continue enjoying my night. Often times, my willingness to do so is more likely to raise value and interest anyway.
        D. Project warmth and lightheartedness (I like to think of it as channeling my inner McConaughey/McQueen). It’s always going to be welcomed at worst and absolutely magnetic at best.

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      • on July 9, 2014 at 1:26 pm Reco

        @imoralgables what is resting bitch face?

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      • on July 9, 2014 at 3:54 pm Glengarry

        “But cold approach without IOI in my experience equals her total befuddlement, verging on fear, alarm, finger poised on 911. ”

        As Whorefinder might tell you, when seconds count, 911 is minutes away.

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      • on July 9, 2014 at 4:00 pm Glengarry

        “But cold approach without IOI in my experience equals her total befuddlement, verging on fear, alarm, finger poised on 911. ”

        Actually it sounds like you either need to tone down your approaches or (more likely) start thinking more positively. You could for example try the Roosh befuddled old guy approach, basically start by asking something neutral, strike up a conversation, keep rambling and see if the IOIs start coming.

        On the level of “Excuse me, miss, do you know the way to this enormous club / Wal-Mart / the train station / the plastic surgery clinic / the liquor store?”

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  15. on July 8, 2014 at 5:46 pm The Undiscovered Jew

    The strange male inverse bravado that accompanies proselytization of the “8-10% body fat seduction” religion is nothing more than rationalizing fearfulness.

    Not even obesity qualifies as a valid excuse anymore. The results are in – anyone can get rid of belly fat with some variation on the high fat/medium protein/low carb formula.

    And if your girl puffs up, throw out those chips and force feed her bacon. Sausage, even.

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  16. on July 8, 2014 at 5:49 pm letterofthelaw

    Everything in moderation
    Sure, there is a time for increased energy in devotion to a certain area but when the goal is reached you back away.

    There reason many of you are here is because you struggle with women. Reading sites like this is better than sitting at home throwing a pity party for yourself. But even game sites can be bad for your health if not consumed in moderation. You can tell alot about certain posters by volume of comments. The more they post the more consumed they are by pickup. When meeting women becomes a mechanical process it defeats the purpose. Sure, if you lack social skills due to self esteem issues it doesnt hurt to learn from those who do know. However, learning is only a portion of the battle. LIVING WELL is the biggest portion.

    And I speak here from experience. The happiest men tend to get way more women than the unhappy ones. Being happy with yourself is the key. By liking who you are it oozes out of your core on to the outside. People can recognize that and women find it attractive. The other day I was in the gym and talked to some girl i see all the time. Wasnt even trying to pick up. Just said hello and chatted about the work out. But i was smiling and in a good mood feeling great about myself and her smile shined RIGHT back.

    Every time I picked up I was in a real good mood. Even the dark triad type bullshit game where you have to start out as a jerk boy within minutes that has to fade and let the good vibes ooze out. When you are happy and feel good about yourself and your life it shows on your face.

    So remember this boys. Reading threads can give a few pointers but without feeling good about your life it will lead nowhere good. Sure maybe you can progress to picking up hoes and girls with serious issues but finding and keeping the good ones will be a serious problem.

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    • on July 8, 2014 at 6:13 pm ballocaust

      thats a lot of “be yourself” and “NAWALT, only the sloots go for that!!1” here

      obviously don’t be a brooding prick all the time. people want to feel good and gravitate towards people who illicit those feelings.

      the point of the triad is to develop the killer instinct so you’re two steps ahead when it counts instead of relying on being a smiley oblivious douche who wants everyone to be haaaapppyy all the time

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    • on July 8, 2014 at 6:16 pm cryo

      exactly right. the moment I started seeing consistent success with attractive women was the moment I tore myself away from the paranoid sexual warfare of sperglord PUA/manosphere blogs. just internalize the basics, roll with the punches and keep a sense of humor about it all.

      LikeLike


      • on July 8, 2014 at 10:23 pm holisticgame

        The only two things that rival autism for keeping the pussy away are paranoia and taking oneself too seriously. Internet man-o-warriors tend to have both in spades. Thus why we had a need for Approach Week.

        LikeLike


    • on July 8, 2014 at 6:26 pm ballocaust

      *Elicit
      if i’m going to bust gables balls should probably proof my own shit

      LikeLike


    • on July 9, 2014 at 3:36 am YaReally

      “So remember this boys. Reading threads can give a few pointers but without feeling good about your life it will lead nowhere good.”

      Everything we do affects our state/mood. I know when I watch a super depressing sad movie, I’m going to be bummed out for a few hours or days. I know when I listen to angsty/angry music I’m going to feel angsty/angry for a few hours or days. I know if I stare at my computer screen all day I’m going to feel anti-social and inside my head. I know if I hate my job/friends/relationship/etc. and have drama or just general negative vibes on it and especially if I focus on that and piss & moan all day, I’m going to be in a negative mood. I know if I read nothing but game forums I’m going to get into an overly analytical inside-my-head mood. I know if I don’t get a decent sleep I’m going to roll out to the bar tired. I know if I head out with buddies who don’t approach or who give me shit for approaching, I’m going to feel abnormal and normalize myself by following their lead and sitting at a table drinking from a jug of beer all night not talking to cute chicks. I know if I don’t approach the first set I see, I’m going to start a spiral where I don’t approach the next set or the next and end up having a night where I don’t talk to anyone.

      But I also know that the opposite is true. If I watch funny shit that makes me laugh, I feel good for a few hours or days. If I listen to happy up-beat music that makes me want to dance in my chair, I’m going to feel happy and up-beat. If the job I do is something I enjoy doing, I’m going to feel good about my career and happy through my day. If I socialize with co-workers or make an effort to chat up the clerk at the convenience store or food place at lunch or do some cold approaches, I’m going to feel more social when I go out to the bar that night. If I take a nap before I go out, I’m going to feel more clear-headed and in-the-moment. If I do some affirmations, I’m going to put myself in a nice positive state of mind. If I watch some light-hearted pickup vids before I go out (like entertaining Simple Pickup, Keys to the VIP, Cupid Schmupid, Kassem G, etc. vids instead of deep technical Tyler vids) I’m going to feel like approaching is normal behavior and have a lot less resistance to it. If I hang out with outgoing social positive buddies who also want to talk to girls and get laid, I’m going to have all the chips on my side of the table. And if I approach the first set I see and start my social momentum, I’m going to end up being unstoppable that night.

      Same person, but two COMPLETELY different states of mind and outcomes, because of the actions I took.

      Like Tyler says “You didn’t fuck up when you approached that girl. You fucked up an hour ago when you didn’t approach that first easy set. You fucked up last night when you didn’t go to bed at a reasonable time. You fucked up last week when you ate shitty food and couldn’t do your workout to feel energized.”

      So I have rules I follow based on observing my own state and success/failure (everyone has their own stuff that gets them into good or bad states…I know a guy who loves listening to angry death metal before he goes out and it’s his fav music so it puts him in a good state). I focus heavy on technical game stuff early in the week, but then Thurs/Fri/Sat I don’t read/watch any of it (aside from a few posts here and there if I’m bored, but I’m not sitting there for hours reading the Chateau on a Friday evening before I go out lol) and instead I switch to more lighthearted pickup stuff. If I want to watch really depressing/angry movies or listen to similar music, I do that early in the week and then by Thursday I switch over to more upbeat positive fun stuff. I don’t hang out with energy-draining drama-wielding chicks, I screen for drama-free up-beat positive girls to have in my life. I’m old (early 30s) and way out of shape so I take a nap before I hit the bar. I bought a decent bluetooth speaker so I could blast music while I’m in the shower and sing along to it and get my foot tapping as I wash my gigantic cock and I make sure to say lyrics out loud or talk to myself in the mirror to get my brain used to making sounds (I work on computers all week and I’m naturally introverted, so depending on various circumstances it’s possible that I haven’t spoken to anyone that day or in a few days or even all week some weeks). I have music playing while I shower up and I walk around with open body language and good posture, say a few things in a deep projecting tonality to get used to projecting my voice, and change my physiology in general to help change my mood. I avoid boring low-key pre-game parties where I know I’m going to be stuck sitting around quietly drinking beers with anti-social guys (if I get stuck hanging with normal dudes) and instead opt to have the pre-game at my place or go pre-game with buddies who are higher energy and will help get me pumped up and keep me in a good state for heading out.

      Can I pick up without doing any of this? Ya, sure, I’ve been doing this a while lol so I have a lot of technical skills on auto-pilot and can often recover from fuckups. I can roll out of bed feeling like shit and be sick and still probably do better than a lot of average guys.

      But why not take action to help me head out in my most optimal state? No one faults a football player for stretching and warming up before a game lol If I head out in a good state, feeling great about myself and my life in general, combining that with solid technical skills is like entering cheat codes lol It doesn’t mean I’ll get laid every night or pull off super wizard magic or anything just like a football player who warms up and practices isn’t going to win every game he plays, but I’m at least not getting in my own way and allowing myself to run at 100% instead of going out at 50% or 10% like a lot of normal average negative/lazy/apathetic/downer guys do.

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      • on July 9, 2014 at 8:31 am newlyaloof

        Thanks for all that. To help get in state, I also like to do two things:
        1. turn on the radio to one of those talk radio stations and speak the words that they speak a split second after them. I’m just getting myself to talk aloud and giving my voice some practice. Getting in a talkative mood basically.
        2. go to “thechive” website and check out their posts of girls. One post can have like 50 different chicks. I’ll look at each girl’s eyes and make up an opener for each. You’d be surprised how in a split second you can see a girls face and adjust your opener (even if it’s just “hi” versus “hey” versus “hello there”. I also look for slight imperfections in their pictures to reduce the pedestal and act as possible negs.

        using these two methods really gives me no excuse to go out, even if alone, and be in a social state.

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      • on July 9, 2014 at 9:55 am Zombie Shane

        What women want is a combination of:

        1) A man who is* relaxed and at ease with himself and with whatever circumstances happen to present themselves, and

        2) A man who is* CONFIDENT in himself.

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      • on July 9, 2014 at 9:57 am Zombie Shane

        Chicks can smell anxiety and nervousness and SELF-DOUBT on you a frigging mile away – modern chicks are like frigging bloodhounds hired by the Frankfurt School to track down the timid would-be alphas who dare to try to escape the Beta Sanitarium which has been constructed within the [anti-] culture in order to imprison them.

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      • on July 9, 2014 at 9:59 am Zombie Shane

        And it’s why Sociopaths have such a huge advantage over guys who give a damn – because Sociopaths DO NOT CARE.

        Caring – which leads to introspection and anxiety and self-doubt – is an utterly foreign emotional [or “moral”] state to the Sociopath. In fact, the pathological inabiltiy to care pretty much defines the Sociopath.

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      • on July 9, 2014 at 10:00 am Zombie Shane

        *Or at least a man who can FAKE it well enough to fool her – remember, chicks are morons – as we saw with Lamborghini Game a few weeks ago, they’ll still get into the car with the stranger offering candy when they are well into their thirties, when they ought to be adults and know better. Because chicks are IDIOTS.

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      • on July 9, 2014 at 10:11 am Zombie Shane

        One final parting thought: When you are running any sort of Game, and you started with a good vibe, but suddenly you are sensing that the conversation is going cold, or you get tongue-tied, or you get nervous, or what-the-fuck-ever, then summon the SELF-DISCIPLINE to quickly MOVE ON. Leave her with positive thoughts of you. Never hang around and be clingy and listless and hanger-on-ish. Give her a wink, and a smile and walk away with a bounce in your step. Leave her with positive memories of you and your upbeat CONFIDENT personality, because you WILL see her again in a few days.

        LikeLike


      • on July 9, 2014 at 12:42 pm Anonymous

        regarding the first set of the nite

        my technique for getting the ball rolling is to go up to the first group of girls and say something completely obnoxious like ‘who is gonna give me a blowjob first’ something that i know will end in a bad rejection where they might even get angry at me

        once you get that first rejection out of the way at the start and prove to your brain nothing really bad will happen you will kill it for the rest of the night

        dont use this as an excuse tho to go up to every chick that night and get blown out by saying something stupid just because you will be getting rejected on your own terms…make sure and play to win

        LikeLike


  17. on July 8, 2014 at 6:30 pm R1J2

    First off, thanks to immoralgables, yareally, et al for their past help.

    Secondly, been doing approaches since before approach week, but need a bit of advice.

    During a date, is there a structure or a model you find helpful? Not looking for a step by step guide, but a general road map.

    Although I’m getting more make outs, I’m just not able to get past the first date. I’m working on tweaking my vibe (come across as too friendly/ nice/ inexperienced), but just wondering if there is a structure I should also keep in mind.

    All recent dates have followed this track more or less:

    – meet up at a dive bar
    – usually a cheerful greeting, get a hug/ or cheek kiss (cultural thing for me)
    – talk about general stuff first 10 min
    – tease her when I can
    – keep her talking more than me about her wants, hopes, etc.
    – eventually get her talking about past relationships / sex / etc. (good strategy?)
    – some physical contact, legs, arms brushing. Hand on back when possible.
    – a second round of beer, maybe third.
    – end the night two hours later (weeknight)
    – then, 33% make out, 66% “nice to meet you”.

    I’d love to hear from someone who’s been there and has blasted through this. I know you can’t tell for sure what I’m doing wrong without actually seeing me, but if anyone notices a glaring mistake or a lack, I’d be grateful if you point it out.

    A point I should make, I’m genuinely interested in what the women I go out with have to say. So, no social robot vibe, while also not getting too excited.

    Thanks for taking the time to help.

    LikeLike


    • on July 8, 2014 at 8:14 pm having a bad day

      @r1j2

      “All recent dates have followed this track more or less:

      – meet up at a dive bar
      [do you get there first and wait for her?=beta/DLV]

      – usually a cheerful greeting, get a hug/ or cheek kiss (cultural thing for me)
      [too happy to see her = beta/DLV…what has she done to deserve this reaction from you…just be a girl?…lol = beta…]
      https://heartiste.wordpress.com/2008/04/30/qualifying-her/

      – talk about general stuff first 10 min
      [are these ‘interview’ questions = beta/DLV…]
      https://heartiste.wordpress.com/2011/02/09/eliciting-sexual-values/

      – tease her when I can
      [good…should be sexual innuendo as much as possible..]

      – keep her talking more than me about her wants, hopes, etc.
      [good…but you still need to interject your DHV into the interaction…]

      – eventually get her talking about past relationships / sex / etc. (good strategy?)
      [emotional tampon = beta/DLV…talking about her sexual fantasy/past (future) ‘adventures’ (with you) = alpha/DHV…

      – some physical contact, legs, arms brushing. Hand on back when possible.
      [good…]

      – a second round of beer, maybe third.
      [‘taking her out’ = beta provider vibe…]

      – end the night two hours later (weeknight)
      [some arbitrary rule?…is your mom going to ground you for being up late on a school night…lol… the willingness to break a rule = DHV…why end the date if it’s going towards SNL…? know the difference between a ‘good’ date and ‘bad’ date (and how to turn it around/eject gracefully) = socially savvy = alpha/DHV…]

      – then, 33% make out, 66% “nice to meet you”.”
      [nice to meet you = no sexual tension = no day 2…make out in public place = ASD for next time, so she’ll flake…rather than face her slutty behavior…solution = increase sexual tension through kino escalation (but NO make out…) and eject early enough to have it be YOUR choice…set logistics for day 2 date, no sexual banter until actually on the date, then get her isolated with plausible deniability (so it can ‘just happen’) then ramp up the make out to a lay…that’s the general game plan anyway…]

      also, you can be interested in what women have to say without being beta…BUT it’s really advanced PUA techs…lol…bc you have to pull her while ‘being her equal’ and that just aint gonna happen before the bang…lol…at least not with any ‘attractive’ girls…lol…you need as much SMV differential (on the upside) as you can get…to overcome the ‘entitlement’ mentality of SWPL girls…]

      good luck!

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      • on July 9, 2014 at 1:34 pm R1J2

        Thanks to everyone who replied – I appreciate your honest feedback. I have a date coming up this Thursday, and another one on Sunday, so two chances to put the advice to use.

        @holisticgame, @walawala, @culum: Yes, venue change is something I need to work on. Looked at what Krauser had to say. Three sounds like a lot, but will of course give it a try and see if it how it works for me / what I can learn from it. Thanks for pointing me there.

        @walawala: I don’t think I am leaning in, I might be neutral. Hard to keep track of your posture when you’re deep in a convo, so I might be doing that. I’ll keep better awareness on the upcoming dates.

        @yareally: Regarding the time limit, I was under the impression that first dates should be kept short. I’ll keep it going longer, work in venue changes. About pushing to go home, I don’t know if I have the balls to do that yet, but I am aware of it through reading your stories (and everyone else) on here.

        I agree with your assessment of not having enough sexual intent. I still feel uncomfortable displaying the intent to someone I am strongly attracted to, so I’m trying to ease into it every chance I get. The eye contact, cutting space, etc. will all become a piece of cake if I can find a way to get rid of that psychological block. Thanks for your continued help.

        @immoralgables: Thanks buddy, I look forward to what I can learn from you. NYC specific question for you: how do you deal with the sobering effect of riding the MTA with the girl back home? General advice is to find venues close to home, but I’m in a residential neighborhood of BK, so I frequently have to go out of my way (but nothing more than a 20/30 min ride on the subway). Factor in that she might live in a different borough. Or maybe I’m just making a big deal of it.

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      • on July 9, 2014 at 4:26 pm YaReally

        @R1J2
        “@yareally: Regarding the time limit, I was under the impression that first dates should be kept short.”

        The oldschool rule was “it takes about 7 hours being together from meet to lay”. So while it can go faster than that, you’re looking at needing between say 5-10 hours at your skill level of face time with her for her to be comfortable enough to bang you. So if you have her there, on a date with you, like she’s right there in front of you which is a miracle in itself in this day and age of flaking, why not knock as much of that required time off as possible while she’s there? Start the date at 7pm instead of 8 or 9. 7-10 be at the bar and doing your venue changes then back to your place, probably spend an hour or so escalating if you’re shy and you guys are having sex by 11-11:30, passed out together by midnight/12:30, plenty of time to sleep for work and it’s a bonding thing to txt eachother the next day “lol I am falling asleep at work. You are trouble ;)” etc anyway so even that’s good.

        There’s no “leave on a high note, leave her wanting more” as a default plan. That’s what you do if you absolutely can’t pull it off that night. Same way you only get a phone number if you have to, if you can’t pull her for sex that night then you “settle” for her number but that number shouldn’t be your end goal going in. Think further ahead, you know? Don’t aim to punch the board, aim to punch THROUGH the board.

        (also the leave her hanging thing might have been good in the old days but with modern tech women have constant validation coming in left and right. She gets home from your date to 10 new Tinder matches and 50 Likes on her Facebook photos from orbiter dudes. Before all that she needed to see you again to get another hit of validation but now she can get it from anywhere so we have to adapt and speed our games up. Hell back in the day we called “game” Speed Seduction lol)

        “About pushing to go home, I don’t know if I have the balls to do that yet”

        Well then how do you expect to have sex with them? Like logically ask yourself “how is my formula going to result in the result I want? What comes between us being on a date and us being in our bed?” I would bet that you don’t have an answer for that right now because society doesn’t teach us that, society teaches us that it “just happens”. But it doesn’t, one of you has to MAKE it happen and she won’t because it would feel too slutty to her to ask to come back to your place…so to whom does that leave the responsibility to make sex happen? 😉

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      • on July 9, 2014 at 4:34 pm YaReally

        Minor followup to my last point:

        Conceptually you’re putting yourself in a stalemate kind of like my nice guy buddies I have. Their goal is to get a girlfriend. They come out and they’re social and they talk to girls and girls love them, but they don’t want to make a move, they’re hoping the girl will make a move. But when girls make moves on them they view the girls as too aggressive/slutty so then they don’t want the girl.

        So logically their formula CANNOT lead to achieving their goal because they want the girls they like to make a move on them but the girls who make a move on them they stop liking. There is literally no way for their current formula to pan out. They have to either start making a move themselves or give the girls who make a move a chance, then the formula can lead to their goal.

        You are in a similar catch-22 where you don’t want to escalate or push to go back to your place, but the girls won’t do it either. So your formula cannot lead to achieving your goal of sex. You have to change your formula and the only change you can actively make is being more sexual and leading them back to your place and escalating to sex.

        If you don’t do that, your formula cannot lead to the result you want. Make sense?

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      • on July 9, 2014 at 6:48 pm having a bad day

        @r1j2

        venue change = preplanned logistics…don’t worry about three yet, just do the bounce one time on the next date or three to get a feel for how it works.

        the two venues should be within comfortable walking distance…you might have to do some pre-date scouting, but that will give you the home field advantage…lol…when you are on the date and you have been at venue 1 for some time talking, there will be a natural lull in the energy/conversation… when you feel this just say “hey let’s try this other place i know. i like to mix it up when i meet someone cool/funny/smart/etc like you…” then take her hand and lead her there…if she follows you = IOI…

        “I still feel uncomfortable displaying the intent to someone I am strongly attracted to, ”

        who else would you display sexual intent to? someone you are NOT strongly attracted to…? (that’s actually how it usually works….it’s called ‘settling’…lol)

        “so I’m trying to ease into it every chance I get. The eye contact, cutting space, etc. will all become a piece of cake if I can find a way to get rid of that psychological block.”

        you have identified exactly what this is…a psychological block…it’s straight up ego defense…you are expecting to get shot down and if you show/admit those feeling of strong attraction (by making your intent known to her, and by social construct to everyone else, too), the (expected) rejection will hurt more…so by avoiding the intent display, you never really let your guard down enough to call it a ‘try’ bc you didn’t…

        going along with this intent display stuff, you have to decide what your goal is…bang/no bang (just practice getting comfortable with the tech…). if you are a little inexperienced and are worried about that, watch some porn and take notes…lol…otherwise, that feeling that things are going ‘too fast’ is a social construct. it’s part of the feminine imperative (see Rational Male for more…) guys who ‘just get it’ (alphas) know this and ignore it…girls count on that as a standing shit test…it helps them weed out the ‘bad genetics’…lol…

        if you decide to go for the bang, arrange your logistics, then invite her back to your place for some ‘plausibly deniable’ reason…one last drink/see your Star Wars action figure collection…lol…(don’t use that one…lol)/taste that special cheese you mentioned earlier in the evening/etc…and add ‘BUT you can only stay for that, then you have to leave bc i have to get up for work early…” then when you get back to your place, make out and escalate to the bang…easy peasy…

        on the MTA…girls won’t care if you don’t…use the subway like it’s the most natural thing in the world to do so and it won’t matter…she might shit test you on it, but that just means you have a chance to DHV by passing said test…also, don’t bring up ANY logistics on her getting home from your place before the bang (such as being worried about her traveling the subway alone after the ‘cheese tasting’)…’just let it happen’…lol…

        good luck!

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      • on July 10, 2014 at 11:10 pm Hunter

        @R1J2 …I know that feel. Just came back from a date that I ended early…

        No worries, reading Ya’s advice so that I won’t let this happen again.

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      • on July 11, 2014 at 5:26 pm Skip

        @YaReally,

        You do realize that the weight of late era PUA material does NOT advocate going for 1st date sex? The latest PUA stuff advocates calibrating your sex goals and choosing either a one or two date template. Krauser, Torero, BlackDragon and others basically advise guys, especially newer guys, to set up a 2 date template with the first date being 1-2 hours tops, getting the kiss but not a serious make out and ending the date on a high. The second date is the close date.

        IMO, this template is easier for non-advanced guys, which means 99% of men on this planet. A 2 date template takes pressure off the guy so he doesn’t have to feel like a “beta provider” if he doesn’t get 1st date sex. It goes along way in overcoming so much of the “you’re a player” vibe that chicks get when you push for 1st date sex. It also overcomes a lot of ASD and leads to less LMR. Krauser’s book or Torero’s “Girlfriend Sequence” or BD’s “get laid fast” e-book all suggest to set the 2 date model as your default. I agree.

        You may or may not be legit, I don’t know. So it may be real that you only have sex in one date. If you are real and not just a really good writer like “G-Manifesto” then 1st date sex is for you. For 80-90% of the rest of the male population, it is not a good recommendation for getting consistent sex; especially if you are over 29 or the girl is over 32 (good luck getting 1st date sex from 32+ women off of cold approach).

        There is an art to running a good 2-date template which incidentally “imoralgables” did not run in his recent LR. He made that lay about 50 times more difficult than it should have been and his LR is painful to read, largely because he put so much unnecessary pressure on the girl because he has no clue what a smooth 2-date escalation model looks like.

        You shouldn’t give advice to guys based on what you (if you’re real) can do. You should know better than to advise most men about trying to get consistent 1st date sex. Its not realistic. I’m in the game 5 years and I don’t try it unless I get a “yes-girl” vibe from the girl. Most guys should number farm then book as many “set-up dates” as they can. Then selectively pick off the girls on Day 3s and Day 4s (if necessary – and sometimes it will be if the girl is high value). Most men will NEVER be able to sex up high value girls on the first date even if they have game. Read Krauser’s lay reports. He has dedicated six years of his life to nothing but gaming women. Less than 1/3 of his LRs are 1st date sex. Same with Torero. And when they do get a chance at those high 8s and 9s, they never go the 1st date sex path.

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    • on July 8, 2014 at 8:53 pm holisticgame

      Venue change! I do one drink at my favorite classy bar, then go for a walk to the central city park, sit on a bench, run comfort for a half hour or so, then kiss her. Then you can go for another drink / ice cream / coffee or pull back to your place if the sexual vibe is flowing after the makeout.

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    • on July 8, 2014 at 11:18 pm immoralgables

      Broseph. I am going to sleep but will be back tomorrow on this.

      My perspective is that of a guy who has done a fair amount of Day 2s/Day 3s in NYC and understand your mentality/position.

      Talk then homie.

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    • on July 9, 2014 at 3:09 am YaReally

      @R1J2
      “- end the night two hours later (weeknight)”

      You and the experience she’ll have fucking you is worth going into work tired for. Understand and fully believe that.

      You’re sabotaging yourself right now. You’re doing everything else right, but yhey probably aren’t coming around for round 2 because you didn’t believe you were high value enough to keep them out late on round 1 and if you don’t believe you’re worth their time, why would they?

      Venue change a couple times and pick venues close to your place so it’s an easy walk to your place. Cross your t’s and dot your i’s:

      http://yareallyarchive.com/2013/4/#comment-rationalmale-18630

      And if you can’t stay up late because it’s you who has to get up early, start your dates a couple hours earlier lol Or have them on the weekend.

      Never plan to get the lay on the second date. Go into the first date fully planning to bang her within a couple hours. The second date only exists if you’ve tried everything on the first date and still couldn’t pull it off…don’t prematurely ejectulate and eject yourself out of there when you could’ve pushed it a bit more and pulled. She’s starting over from a new emotional headspace the next time you talk to her or see her, you have her right there in front of you, just keep going.

      There are no clocks or windows in casinos…why? Because they want you to lose track of time and forget about being responsible and just enjoy the emotional ride you’re on and keep going. Don’t acknowledge that it’s getting late or that you guys have responsibilities in the morning etc…be her escape from real life. No woman who’s been fucked good has ever gone into work tired the next day and said “I really wish I hadn’t had sex with that amazing attractive guy who gave me a bunch of orgasms and blew my mind, I really should’ve gotten a good night’s sleep so I could focus on my meaningless HR job shuffling papers around gossiping with my co-workers.” lol

      Also watch these vids, you may be coming off asexual in terms of intent to her, and eye-contact/cutting space/tonality can fix that:

      http://yareallyarchive.com/2014/4/#comment-heartiste-556141

      Good luck! It’s absolutely a thing you can fix. I used to not get laid after a bunch of dates that went nowhere, then it became getting the lay within 3 dates, now I can’t even remember the last time I didn’t get the lay on the first date. Hell, sometimes I can get away with just pinning them against my door and making out with them and pulling them inside when they show up to pick me up and skip the whole date thing entirely lol My point is: this is a strategy/skillset you can develop. 🙂

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    • on July 9, 2014 at 5:15 am walawala

      @R1J2 go to krauser’s site and there is a basic date model. But what would really help you because it helped me was to order a read through DayGame Mastery.

      He goes into clear detail how to escalate. he uses a 3 venue model.

      In my case I’ve banged chicks in a one venue and two venue situation.

      But what’s important is the escalation model.

      From what you write it’s hard to assess because we can’t see your body language, hers, how you’re sitting: are you leaning, are you asking open-ended questions, are spiking between rapport and attraction?

      To better understand this check out his materials, then give us an update to see how we can assess better.

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      • on July 9, 2014 at 11:37 am newlyaloof

        Totally agree with this. Just read even the first two months of his archive and you will have a wealth of information about approaching and his valuable mindset and missteps at the time. Fascinating stuff.

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    • on July 9, 2014 at 6:09 am Culum Struan

      @R1J2 – I was going to post about Krauser’s date model but walawala beat me to it. I use a modified version of it (in particular, 3 separate venues is a bit of a pain- I do one or two) and it works well (the majority of my first dates are from online so it is usually on girls who I am meeting for the first time).

      A couple of points:

      1. I don’t see any DHV stories in your structure – you should include some because not only do they DHV you, they are great for engaging her, giving her the range of emotions etc (I have stories about surviving a near-fatal car crash, a really funny/cruel story about an April Fools prank I played on a friend etc) and you can qualify her off those stories and escalate kino during them. You generally need a clear structure of convo that you direct too – starting from the lighter/funnier stories to the more intense ones and more personal convos aligned with kino escalation – don’t let her take you off the path even if the “intellectual” chat is interesting (save it for after you’ve slept with her).

      2. In terms of kissing I read a great kiss close on some forum somewhere – there are plenty of kiss closes but I like this one. Essentially you escalate kino up the ladder – from touching the arms, up to touching thighs and then ideally going up to having your arm around her and her cuddled up to you on the couch – if I get to this point, a makeout is near certain – but some girls won’t come in so willingly. Then just look her in the eye without smiling to build sexual tension..then break it, and then (if response is good), a minute or so later, just use two fingers on the side of her jaw/chin to turn her face towards you and position for the kiss – if she turns to you without resistance, the kiss is on. Make sure you end it first and keep the first one quick and light.

      3. I ran this on my online first dates with an over 80% makeout rate. My results are down right now (as I posted in comments to the previous CH post) because I am experimenting with a more aggressive dating profile, but last year with my old profile I had (for eg) a two week period with 9 first dates (8 from online) where 7 ended in makeouts and 2 of those I laid, and one of them gave me a toilet blowjob 90 mins after meeting me (could have laid more if I’d been willing to put in a bit more work on those girls but I couldn’t be bothered). And one of the girls I didn’t make out with was a total gold digger and we had a terrible vibe right from the start.

      4. I just re-read your post – basically I think you’re okay – you need to have a clearer structure, a couple of DHV stories and escalate harder in a more structured way.

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  18. on July 8, 2014 at 6:43 pm Voltaire's Spinning Corpse

    I have to admit this is a big hurdle for me. How does one shake it? I don’t expect a 10 to fall in love with me; a 7 would be wonderful. I am probably a 5 at best.

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    • on July 8, 2014 at 7:26 pm Zombie Shane

      > “How does one shake it?”

      STOP CARING!!!

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    • on July 8, 2014 at 10:10 pm holisticgame

      A five in what way? Can you lose weight? Dress better? Be more well-groomed? Those things will never hurt, and they’ll make you feel more self-confident.

      If you’re a five at your absolute best – a 5’2″ harelipped Indian with a six pack in a great suit – then own that shit. Be the most goddamn badass lisping Punjab that ever walked the planet. Radical self-belief is everything.

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  19. on July 8, 2014 at 6:45 pm Mr Meaner

    “Very good-looking but socially shy and/or lazy men who have spent a lifetime relying on female approach invitations to get laid.”

    I’ve had to accept the reality recently that this is me. I don’t come across as socially shy but extended group social interactions take a lot out of me. Also, I am not a big drinker so this is another reason why I tend to expire early at a lot of gatherings or avoid them altogether. People never really understand this, as they assume that someone who is good looking, and is not socially awkward, is actually enjoying the interaction, when in reality every fibre of my being wants to get out of there.

    My notch count – scattered in between several medium term relationships – is reasonably impressive but when I honestly look back I’d have to say 85% of them were initiated by the chick, or I knew the chick had high interest in me from a social or work setting.

    This has to change. I want it to change.

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    • on July 10, 2014 at 6:21 am blogster

      you’re introverted. its that simple. group social situations drain you as they take energy from you whereas you generate it internally.

      ‘normal’ social events are tough for introverts. I wondered why i was getting drained and bored and then figured it out after reading “the introvert advantage” by marti olsen laney. it really helped me understand myself.

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      • on July 10, 2014 at 6:31 pm Mr Meaner

        Cheers, I’ll check that out.

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  20. on July 8, 2014 at 6:50 pm olympiapress

    Maybe I’m comparing Alphas to Sigmas here, but I think any skill mastered–guitar, ballroom/salsa/swing dance, karaoke, among others–can lead to approach invites. I lift, but at 41, the 10% body fat thing ain’t happening. And right now “lifting” = doing fucking something with dumbbells while my back heals so I don’t feel too much like a flabby little girly-man..

    Still, I was out on the 3rd and the 4th at a karaoke bar within staggering distance of my apartment, sang Neil Diamond’s America and that Lee Greenwood thing. These were two songs I gave my all to, but don’t exactly have as a regular part of my repertoire.

    Got at least a dozen AIs that I could see, said hi to everyone that I could reach, am supposed to meet up with one tomorrow, and two more will be coming by Thursday to hear me play guitar on open mic. Real casual ‘cuz the place was packed, so maybe everyone flakes, but didn’t put that much effort into it, just enjoying myself and also catching up with a bunch of people I hadn’t seen in months.

    /There was one very nice 8, around 22, who will likely be dumping her boyfriend soon, but not yet. It’s weird when they sit in his lap yet spend much of the night eyeing you.

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    • on July 8, 2014 at 7:11 pm Zombie Shane

      > “any SKILL mastered–guitar, ballroom/salsa/swing dance, karaoke, among others–can lead to approach invites. I lift,”

      Dude – see my little soliloquy above on “Humiliation” Game.

      Short fat pudgy ugly trotskyite/leninist/gramscian nihilist losers use “Humiliation” Game to score SMOKING HAWT poontang.

      They are not artistic, they are not athletic, they have no money, they are not even particularly bright [vis-a-vis dudes in engineering or the sciences], and they sure as hell don’t do anything useful for a living – which is to say, they have no SKILLS whatsoever – but they’ve got the dark ugly hateful negs down to a “T”, and they score poontang like you wouldn’t believe.

      There is a certain kind of smoking hawt Blue State Leftoid chick who doesn’t get wet between the legs for anything other than to be on the receiving end of Humiliation Game.

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      • on July 8, 2014 at 9:36 pm olympiapress

        Maybe we should call that Ira Einhorn game?

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      • on July 8, 2014 at 10:34 pm olympiapress

        And that’s not a slag, by the way. You’re talking about a known literary archetype, especially from writers who were hippies. If you ever saw Forrest Gump, that one scene, with Jenny, Forrest, the Black Panthers, and one guy who’s clearly got Jenny destroyed emotionally (he slaps her and Forrest white knights… of course she doesn’t go for the beta at that point.) T.C. Boyle also had a couple of books with similar characters and their women, World’s End and Drop City (the latter set in a hippie commune.)

        There are roughly as many Millennials/Gen Y types as there were Baby Boomers, so given the economy it’s not a surprise that the same sort would again come into prominence. But really, as our host could tell you, the men with humiliation game are exhibiting the dark triad, enlisting her in the fight against demons, demanding absolute loyalty, and pulling way above their weight.

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    • on July 9, 2014 at 7:06 am Tilikum

      “It’s weird when they sit in his lap yet spend much of the night eyeing you.”

      not weird, female. they are tacitly feeding their ego by making sure they can pull you when they want.

      girl tricks of ego preservation.

      big smile, bounce the eyebrows, then a hard ignore. make her come to you.

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      • on July 9, 2014 at 11:38 am SolInvictus

        Spot on Tilikum.
        I had a friend, who was a mutual friend’s girlfriend, pounce me one night at a bar after a few drinks while he wasn’t looking.
        She was about to move to DC and asked me,
        “Why I’d been teasing her with that thing for so long?”
        (she says this after hopping onto my lap and making sure to grind on my bulge.)
        My response, “what?”
        She started in about having wanted to get together for a while now and how I was somehow teasing her for all this time.

        You know what game I’d been running on her?
        Zero.
        None.
        Despite her being an extremely hot red head, I had paid her no attention whatsoever beyond friendship because I knew something she didn’t…
        That the friend of mine she’d been dating had some serious, raging, evil mean Herpes that he’d told us all about long before in a warning-to-all-my-friends-to-always-wear-condoms tale.
        So she registered on my sexual radar even less than a 300lb. sweat pants clad manatee.
        And that drove the bitch crazy for my cock to the point that she popped like that after almost a year of buildup…

        Thankfully, my tastier, and disease free, companion was not far away on the dance floor and allowed a way to politely decline her interest. But that blew my mind a little… definitely the absolute least effort I’ve ever put into a seduction. Too bad she almost certainly had the cooties… (seriously, girl looked like Jessica Rabbit’s little sister…killed me a little inside to shut that down).

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  21. on July 8, 2014 at 7:33 pm Andrew S.

    I just was told by some fat, 5’1 single mom that she was a “solid 7.” I’m not buying everything the “looks only matter” red pill men are saying. but are they not right on in what they say about the vast majority of women in the States being hyper delusional about their attractiveness and the types of men they can get to commit them?

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    • on July 9, 2014 at 9:54 am Amy

      Yes, because they base their ranking on how easily they can attract male sexual attention, vs. commitment. So in their minds, it’s the men’s fault for not “realizing her worth” as a long term partner. They don’t understand that this assessment is what actually determines her worth.

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  22. on July 8, 2014 at 7:36 pm Rationalizing Fearfulness | Reaction Times

    […] Source: Heartiste […]

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  23. on July 8, 2014 at 7:38 pm Stuttie

    Really good post CH – thanks. Always good to think logically regarding improving approach mindset.

    Rollo has some further reading http://therationalmale.com/2012/02/23/looks-count/

    I’m 6’4″ and I lift but I’m not ripped, have a receding hairline and not the greatest smile – but muscles/being in shape increases my confidence = feeling better about myself = more approaches = more notches

    But, if I could only choose Game or muscles/8-10 BF% I choose Game everytime.

    @ R1J2 – “eventually get her talking about past relationships / sex / etc” is not a good strategy. You should also try to bounce her to another venue to see if she complies. Plan your day 2’s and 3’s so they might end at your place. I.e. plan favorable logistics. Keep escalating the kino until it’s mutual which is a huge IOI that could/should lead to the bang.
    But if your getting 1 in 3 to make out, you should be pushing hard to get her back to your place that night.

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  24. on July 8, 2014 at 7:49 pm Steve H

    Any man who believes in himself, has a somewhat benevolent meta-worldview wherein he seeks to give help and inspire others, and actively works on improving his weaknesses (i.e. working out to get down to 10% body fat, getting out of the house and working on his social skills, etc) – any man who decides to do these things and be this way – he can get 7s and 8s. You don’t believe me? I’ve got two words for you: Sean Stephenson.

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    • on July 8, 2014 at 8:14 pm Zombie Shane

      > “benevolent meta-worldview wherein he seeks to give help and inspire others”

      Mitt Romney to a “T”.

      Who got his ass handed to him on a silver platter by a Narcissistic Personality Disorder half-human half-chimpanzee dopehead Nihilist whose meta-worldview is “We gonna burn dis mutha to da ground.”

      LikeLike


      • on July 8, 2014 at 8:35 pm thwack

        stop hating and give Obama credit for beating the white man at his own game.

        LikeLike


      • on July 8, 2014 at 8:49 pm Zombie Shane

        What is “the white man’s own game”?

        It’s a serious question, btw.

        LikeLike


      • on July 8, 2014 at 9:19 pm whorefinder

        lol. “Give my monkey-king credit for winning based on jewish-created self-hatred amongst whites and ruining the country all by his lonesome, honkeys!”

        And PA cried.

        Double rape!

        LikeLike


      • on July 8, 2014 at 9:28 pm thwack

        using WORDS to mislead people.

        This is why I have mixed feelings about Obama. On the one hand Im proud he can talk without saying anything as good as any white man can.

        But on the other hand its a really annoying DANGEROUS characteristic.

        I was hoping the 1st black president would give us the “medicine” we really needed; mother fuckin straight talk; no fuckin chaser…

        Instead we got professor “Gleason Go Lightly”

        (((SHAKIN MY HEAD)))

        btw, Its not too late for a black man to do the job that needs to be done.

        LikeLike


      • on July 8, 2014 at 10:42 pm whorefinder

        Thwack masta p, giving all his 70-I.Q. brain can give:

        using WORDS to mislead people.
        —lmao. sho’nuff, sho nuff, ni66ers have NO history with jive talk hustling. Nope, none what soever. Evil whitey did it all!

        On the one hand Im proud he can talk without saying anything as good as any white man can.
        —just like evry other darkie—who are full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.

        I was hoping the 1st black president would give us the “medicine” we really needed; mother fuckin straight talk; no fuckin chaser
        —lmao. Hope ! Change! tack,like every subhuman, ALWAYS drinks the koolaid.

        Its not too late for a black man to do the job that needs to be done.
        –ROFL. Oh yes, because black men are FAMOUS for doing jobs well. Or even correctly.

        Subhuman rape!

        LikeLike


      • on July 8, 2014 at 10:59 pm Arbiter

        using WORDS to mislead people.

        That’s “the white man’s own game”? LOL Little socialist prick. What a bullshit claim, that lying would be something only white people do. Blacks like you do the most lying of anyone, because that’s the basis of your whole worldview. If anything White men lie less than any other, since it’s White men who have presented almost all the truths in science, while non-White peoples always preferred to make up fantasies about how the world works. Just look up White History Today and look at the long, long list of inventions Whites have given the world. While Blacks couldn’t even invent the wheel. Idiots.

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      • on July 9, 2014 at 5:51 am thwack

        Just look up White History Today and look at the long, long list of inventions Whites have given the world.
        ———————————————————————————————-

        and is the world becoming a better place, or more fucked up?

        You’re going to end up with a bar code on your forehead; your son a faggot and your daughter a whore.

        wake up white man.

        LikeLike


      • on July 9, 2014 at 8:08 am Zombie Shane

        > “using WORDS to mislead people”

        Actually, honesty used to be the hallmark of white people – at least the Northwest European white Christians who founded this country.

        At least through Ronald Reagan [and continuing in that tradition through e.g. Rush Limbaugh], white folk were traditionally the honest ones.

        LikeLike


      • on July 9, 2014 at 8:14 am Zombie Shane

        Of course, the Bush family did immeasurable damage to that tradition:

        GHWB 41: “Read my lips, no new taxes.”
        [1988 GOP national convention]

        GWB 43: “No nation building”
        [2000 presidential debate with ManBearPig]

        Whether because of cynical calculation [which I believe is what Steve Sailer suspects] or because of suicidal fatuousness [which is my best guess], it is very difficult to misunderstimate the devastation which the Bush family single-handedly wrought upon our civilization.

        LikeLike


      • on July 9, 2014 at 8:18 am Zombie Shane

        Rant about GHWB 41 and GWB 43 in LIFO purgatory.

        LikeLike


      • on July 9, 2014 at 8:43 am PA

        “e.g. Rush Limbaugh]”

        He was too much of a water carrier for the GOP during W’s terms to be called honest. Especially on immigration.

        But he’s not as bad as wolfowitzfinder the neocon monkey who wrote that Americans aren’t patriotic enough to die in Middle Eastern wars, and who wants white girls to mix with browns.

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      • on July 9, 2014 at 8:50 am Zombie Shane

        Listen carefully to Rush – he is definitely one of us – in fact, I am almost certain that he is a lurker at The Chateau.

        He just has to tread very carefully and introduce his audience to the horrifying truth of these matters in very small measured palatable digestible portions – he damned near lost his entire advertising base when he spoke too honestly about that filthy skank slut cunt whore, Sandra Fluke.

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      • on July 9, 2014 at 10:40 am SolInvictus

        “Thwack-…and is the world becoming a better place, or more fucked up?”

        Than what… Africa? The place that wouldn’t have concocted a bar-code much less space travel for another… 10,000 years? (and that’s being generous)

        “You’re going to end up with a bar code on your forehead; your son a faggot and your daughter a whore.”

        That’s some true shit there though.
        Black people… not usually the brightest, but pain and suffering does have a way of imparting plain spoken wisdom. That part I like.
        The downfall of whites is that with brilliance comes complacency, easy living, and inevitably, weakness.
        The biggest upside to having ultra-violent, near savage ghetto dwellers in our midst… is that it keeps us from sinking into total pussy-hood. If it weren’t for the natural tendencies of of africans and aztecs, nearly every white country would look like the Shire and we’d be as happy, docile, fat, and defenseless as Hobbits…

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      • on July 9, 2014 at 11:43 am thwack

        ni66ers may loot the shoe store; but it takes a white man to loot your pension.

        LikeLike


  25. on July 8, 2014 at 8:42 pm Junior

    the irony is that they still feel deserving of the George Clooneys no matter what age

    http://www.theonion.com/articles/few-more-items-knocked-off-list-of-desirable-trait,36412/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=SocialMarketing&utm_campaign=LinkPreview:1:Default&recirc=dating

    LikeLike


    • on July 8, 2014 at 9:25 pm whorefinder

      ha. yes.

      and just wait till the welfare runs out…and the affirmative action jobs for women dry up…and then some big dark subhuman breaks down their door and rapes them….

      let them suffer. mightily.

      dark rape!

      LikeLike


  26. on July 8, 2014 at 9:01 pm epochehusserl

    I’ve noticed a faddishness among so-called “red pill” men lately to assert with the cynical glee of a conspiracy theorist stumbling across doubleplussecret knowledge that only men with 8-10% body fat and Hollywood good looks are capable of pulling girls cold, and that any man who falls short of those physical dimensions ought to console himself with internet porn or drop out of the mating race to “go his own way”.
    ——————————————
    I think that Heartiste makes the mistake (as do the feminists) in overselling the importances of the sex act itself. The main “red pill” issue is male identity and that goes far beyond just getting laid. Not just the liabilities of having a family but also the intangible assets are far less than they were in the past. If men put a lot of effort into wooing a woman and bedding her then what? I wouldnt ascribe all of this to fearfulness.

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  27. on July 8, 2014 at 9:11 pm Ronin

    CH speaks the truth.

    I look like a mix between Clive Owen & Jude Law and my bodyfat has been 10% or less for a while now.

    But my inner+outer game need a ton of work.

    So I get lousy results all the freaking time.

    *As long as you take showers regularly, confidence & game are what really matter; not looks.

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  28. on July 8, 2014 at 9:33 pm Bango Tango

    It’s all cost benefit. There is nothing wrong if men don’t feel that women are worth the effort and want to retire to their masterbatorium. Frankly the bad behavior of women is getting to the point where the idea of putting any effort at all into pursuit doesn’t seem logical anymore. The modern woman’s hamster is so fried with all the choices they have been given most come off as completely bipolar schizophrenic. Gaming schizo’s is not my idea of fun.

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    • on July 8, 2014 at 10:16 pm thrust

      sounds butthurt but i concor – until i head to Quebec in a few months

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    • on July 8, 2014 at 11:19 pm Arbiter

      Frankly the bad behavior of women is getting to the point where the idea of putting any effort at all into pursuit doesn’t seem logical anymore. The modern woman’s hamster is so fried with all the choices they have been given most come off as completely bipolar schizophrenic.

      Omega. “Sour, said the fox.”

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      • on July 9, 2014 at 6:08 am Bango Tango

        More labels that don’t add up to jack. I have no problem with an omega label. Just like I’m sure you have no problem with the label pussy begger. I mean all these cold approaches and rejections are fun right? Don’t take yourself that serious right? Right. 🙂

        LikeLike


      • on July 9, 2014 at 7:10 am Tilikum

        pay no attention to underbiter, we dont. he has a really weird shtick.

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  29. on July 8, 2014 at 10:47 pm Will

    I would say this: girls have more extremes, guys have “is she fuckable does she give me a hard boner”. Top 1% looks for guys will give you a huuuuge advantage assuming your not fucking retarded (good genes and health whatever). And they get preselection etc. then after that…it’s is he ugly? No? Then nothing about looks matters. Oh what? He’s ugly? K that’s gonna take tons of charisma and other positives.

    For guys it’s more like top 10% looks for girls gives us hard boners extreme lust then goes by intervals if our attraction down to fatties.

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  30. on July 8, 2014 at 10:54 pm Will

    Couple things:

    I’ve had oneitis like three or four times (varied by degrees, one huge oneitis). But they’ve all been with similar looking girls: petite blondes (all 4). It’s like a trap for me or something cause i have ridiculous lust for them:

    A) how do I change this? Just stop the blondes?

    And

    B) why is it that the one year mark seems to be the end of my last two ‘relationships’ with these high smv girls? Does that say something about what I’m doing wrong?

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    • on July 8, 2014 at 11:08 pm Will

      My most recent girl I didn’t show my oneitis at all really just recognized I had it. And also for reference this is all post coital oneitis

      LikeLike


      • on July 8, 2014 at 11:10 pm Will

        I think I might be pursuing too hard too soon? But isn’t that “leading ” (Last post)

        LikeLike


  31. on July 8, 2014 at 11:21 pm The Supreme Gentleman

    I can understand why there would be a perception that women are only attracted to men physically, as CH so eloquently put it, because most of our attraction to women is physical. With that rationale, women are more susceptible to approach, or rather “invite,” a physically attractive man and thus weed out the average ones among us. But I would imagine that the aforementioned situation (woman approaching man) would be much more difficult to a social retard who whines about not getting laid on the internet all day. At least you have a minute or two to prepare for an approach. Maybe even get enough practice to desensitize yourself to social situations.

    But in the unlikely event that a woman would initially approach a man, given that said man is a “red pill” dummy, he wouldn’t know how to react in the first place. Even if she found him physically attractive, she’d be repulsed by his social ineptitude. It’s a Catch-22 (don’t know if I used that reference correctly, but who gives a fuck).

    Red-pillers like to bring up the generic example of Brad Pitt when making their arguments. Brad Pitt is one of the few blockbuster pretty boys from the 90s who is still discussed by women today. I can pretty much guarantee it’s not the real-life Brad Pitt that they swoon over. It’s the characters that he plays that permanently etched that perception of him in their heads. The real-life Brad Pitt is a boring, vegetarian liberal. Tyler Durden and Rusty Ryan are guys that take what they want and don’t apologize for it. Be Tyler Durden or Rusty Ryan. Don’t be Brad Pitt.

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    • on July 8, 2014 at 11:43 pm whorefinder

      “Do you want to get laid, or do you want to be bossed around by an over-the-hill diva ex-movie star 2nd wife?”

      LikeLike


      • on July 9, 2014 at 12:18 am The Supreme Gentleman

        “Fuck off with your political correctness and your petting zoo full of adopted 3rd world children. I say never be complete, I say stop being perfect, I say let’s evolve, and let the chips fall where they may.”

        LikeLike


  32. on July 8, 2014 at 11:31 pm Scott

    I’m 48 years old, overweight, and out of practice after being married for 20 years. But I’ve still never understood the fear of approaching women. In my younger days, I dated roommates at the same time, a Playboy model, and regularly bagged ladies in the 8-10 range.

    Now I have a 24 year old son. I told him when he was a teenager, that the easiest way to get a hot chick to go out with you is to simply ask. Since most guys are too wimpy to approach a 9 or 10, it is actually the girls in the 6-8 range that get hit on the most. In reality, 10’s get hit on less, and are easier to pick up than the less attractive girls in the 6-8 range.

    That is the honest truth – believe it or not.

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  33. on July 9, 2014 at 12:41 am Black Swan

    I did the best I could for approach week, given that I am happily red pill married I was not going for a hard close, just going for some shits and giggles. I could have easily fallen into the “I’m not good looking enough, or young enough, or I haven’t been lifting regularly trap”. I will readily admit I used to do that to myself, eg. rationalize my lack of approach courage as a lack of looks, but no longer. I have come to learn that pure bravado is a force multiplier with women of all stripes and ages.

    Nope I realized there is zero to lose and dove right in on approach week. My best one for the week, I had just sailed 600 miles on an Ocean race, hadn’t showered in 6 days, was drinking rum as a sailor does, I looked like a fucking pirate (45 years old and not exactly stellar shape). So standing in the yacht club a few guys on my boat were commenting on two 18-20 something young ladies dancing around on the dock at this yacht club, and how “in the days of old they would’ve been in there like a shot.” Is that so I thought to myself, well why be nostalgic when we have the here and now, it’s approach week after all!

    So I swaggered forth and went right on up to them and hit them with some light negging about their daytime dock side frolicking in the sun and how they should be dancing on our boat instead of the dock. I fully expected that I would get the “creepy old man vibe” but I kept my energy level up and knew that even hard shaming would bring a funny story to the rest of the crew at the very least. Surprisingly they laughed and engaged in playful conversation for a few minutes then they shut down all of a sudden. WTF? I turn around and their mother is standing behind me with a disapproving glare. What to do?

    Only one option, direct engagement! “Ah so the true prize has arrived!” I shout. Mother is suitably shocked and disarmed. Within a few moments I have all three of them laughing and playing along while making ribald comments about having all three of them back to the boat for further adventures making my intentions quite clear. Mama is not half bad for a 40 something, clearly she is married and has the resources to look after herself. It seems in a matter of moments she forgets about her presumably Beta husband and she immediately responds to some unapologetic pirate vibe.

    We engage in some repartee for a few minutes and her level of engagement becomes both obvious and borders on an embarrassment for her two daughters. We agree to have drinks later as I have to move on to head to a late lunch with the crew.

    4 hours later and some few gallons of rum I indeed ran into her and the daughters again, now the sun has set and things are heating up. Sadly I was so drunk I cannot recall what I specifically said, but I do recall that she essentially agreed to come home with me if we could connect later that night. She was throwing the kino at me shamelessly and was clearly not shitting about going further.

    As it was I was exhausted and shit faced and so I passed out shortly thereafter, which was fine as I wasn’t looking for a close.

    All in all however, it was great to have made the approach, engaged them all, and not be rejected by any of them, rather had them laughing and fully engaged and ready to progress while surrounded by a sea of men wishing they had the balls to do what I had done on a whim.

    So CH, thanks for doing approach week, it inspired me to act, to act without fear and to put my old man sailor game into practice. Good times

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  34. on July 9, 2014 at 2:08 am Rationalizing Fearfulness | Truth and contradic...

    […] I’ve noticed a faddishness among so-called “red pill” men lately to assert with the cynical glee of a conspiracy theorist stumbling across doubleplussecret knowledge that only men with 8-10% body fat and Hollywood good looks are capable of pulling…  […]

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  35. on July 9, 2014 at 3:54 am heyjay

    Getting in goog shape really does make a difference and everyone who disagrees is lying to themselves, probably cause you yourself have some body issues. I’m not perfect either, I used to be leaner and the girls were staring at me back then.
    However, the most important thing is confidence. It doesn’t help to have them drooling over you, you still need to bust a move. And that’s where many guys in the manosphere, including myself fail. Hell, I can even fuck up with a girl that has been attracted right from the beginning…
    Cure: Approach a ton of women, get shot down a lot and start to realize your self worth is not depending on the girls.

    LikeLike


  36. on July 9, 2014 at 3:59 am FamilyMan

    Reddit’s /r/theredpill has been infested the past few weeks with an array of subtle trolls. They push this idea that alpha = genetically gifted with movie star looks. Another idea they push is that “red pill” is all about lifting. These clever guys will go to the gym and work like hell for a year or five to turn themselves into anatomy dolls, then they’ll go out and flex their muscles and wait for the women to arrive. How clever of them!

    It isn’t just that the guys are stupid for working so hard to please girls (while we are skipping the hard work and just enjoying the girls.) I really don’t like the idea that some white knights, or whatever they are, can play mind games (troll games) and turn “red pill” into another way of pedestalizing girls, another way that guys can compete to earn their affections.

    Wouldn’t the Frankfurt School guys have a good laugh if they managed to subvert this movement into that? What I’ve seen on /r/theredpill in the past few weeks (and not before that) is some very professional trolling. It’s not the usual influx of angry men in the process of losing their illusions.

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    • on July 9, 2014 at 8:44 am Zombie Shane

      > “some very professional trolling”

      Axelrod and Sunstein are definitely sending the pros over here whenever we have a thread about their #1 immediate priority [namely their policy of Race Replacementism].

      I certainly get the feeling that we’re starting to show up on their radar.

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      • on July 9, 2014 at 9:31 am MZ

        “First, they ignore you.
        Then they laugh at you.
        Then they fight you.
        Then you win.”

        LikeLike


  37. on July 9, 2014 at 4:08 am walawala

    I have a new game technique I tried on a few girls as ping texts.

    The other day after a massive rainstorm I took a photo of a turtle that had been apparently walking across the road when it was run over and flattened by a car.

    It looked like a placemat in the shape of a turtle.

    As an experiment I sent this text out to 5 girls I’m gaming:

    Me: “Just saw a turtle trying to cross road”

    GIrls: 4/5 responded: general response was “oh wow…” or “what do you mean???”

    Me: send photo of flattened turtle; “too slow”

    Girls; “OMG it’s dead!!!” “ewwwwww” etc

    Then I didn’t reply. Everyone one of them replied with some follow up that got the chat going.

    I wonder was it too gross? Did this cause gina tingles? Was it truly offensive?

    Thoughts? call it “dead turtle photo game”.

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    • on July 9, 2014 at 7:05 pm having a bad day

      @wala

      dead turtle photo game = violate social conventions/evoke strong emotional reaction/give no fucks attitude = alpha = win…

      the question is do/can you translate that into dates/lays…?

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  38. on July 9, 2014 at 4:32 am kai

    Hum, yes, this is quite a good description of the situation, but what about if this guy was simply not interrested in 2-3? Well, hypothetic obviously, given the landwhale he seems happy to be with on the picture.
    But imagine he had some standards, wouldn’t just avoiding approach be rational? If you have 100% rejection, what’s the point?

    Well, there is always hookers 🙂

    Speaking of hookers, I don’t remember the position of PUA community on them….My experience is that it has made me much less anxious, because the knowledge that a decent lay at a very affordable price is always available made me much less outcome-nervous….On the other hand, it has also made me much less energetic, balancing the effort (time and residual anxiety) and price of a regular date with the tarifed alternative. In total, I would say it is still net positive, i’m not making more approach, but I am much less nervous and probably target better girls than before….

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    • on July 9, 2014 at 9:28 am mr pink

      “because the knowledge that a decent lay at a very affordable price is always available”

      don’t do it. allan konigsberg quote is something like; everything is about sex except for sex. sex is about power.

      hookers have all the power and are not even close to decent lays. if it’s going to be good you have to own her and then break her. tricks never come close to breaking their whores. total submission to your will is what makes it good. everything else is just masturbation.

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      • on July 9, 2014 at 1:30 pm kai

        lol, completely disagree, with you and Alan…Sex is not about power, it is about sex. When there is a simple explanation, it’s usually the one to consider, else soon you will be all about male priviledge and rapist don’t want sex, they want power….Yeah sure.

        Hookers power is no different from most womans, it’s their main power, and it’s a good one: Men want sex with them.
        If they want something other than sex from the man, a negotiation is possible. They are just more honest, or don’t have the self control to play the long game like gold diggers (or most women a few years after wedding, for that matter ).

        Total submission, or, more exactly, managing to persuade the girl that what she want for providing sex is just your presence/interest/validation, will indeed makes sex better. But missing that, hookers will usually provide good prestation, at least in some places of the world (hint: not the US), at a HB level out of reach of some guys like the fat cosplay nerd here.

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      • on July 9, 2014 at 7:50 pm gunslingergregi

        . tricks never come close to breaking their whores. total submission to your will is what makes it good. everything else is just masturbation.””””’

        did you read that in forbes?

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  39. on July 9, 2014 at 4:53 am Trimegistus

    Elliott Rogers should have read this.

    LikeLike


  40. on July 9, 2014 at 5:30 am Tarrou

    Well, as one of the reasonably good looking guys who spent a lot of time too shy and lazy to get game, allow me to throw my (relatively worthless) seal of approval. I had figured out how to parlay my looks into sex on a semi-regular basis on my own (play guitar in a band, keep mouth shut). Still nothing compared to what I was capable of. I embarked on a campaign of forcing myself to be sociable years before I discovered red pill sites. I made myself go out once a week and strike up conversations with strangers. I made games out of it. And by the time I found a logical construct to hang it all on, I was better than halfway there.

    Women are a skill like any other. You may not have the talent to play in Wimbledon, but if you never touch a tennis racket, you won’t ever realize whatever your talent level might be.

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  41. on July 9, 2014 at 6:23 am wolfie65

    Unless you go to school or work with hotties or you are in a situation in which you are introduced to hotties by THEIR friends, you HAVE TO cold approach. There is NO WAY a hottie is EVER going to cold approach you, unless you are A-Rod or at least 10 years younger than she is.
    What women (yes, AWALT) want is the (or several) 22-year old, 6’4 Brad Pitt look-alike with Donald Trump’s checkbook who is about to ascend the throne of a kingdom, preferably somewhere rich and tropical.
    The farther away you are from that ideal, the more problems you’re going to have.
    Literature – as well as movies, TV and other outlets of pop culture – may be full of examples to the contrary, and there is a grain of truth in them (sometimes), but it is buried under so many mountain ranges of utter crap & lies as to be almost invisible and irrelevant.
    The Real World: When you’re at the club, hit on the girls you like. them to dance. If you get 1 yes out of 10 approaches, you’re doing well. If you get 1 number out of every 100 dances, still good. Anything better than that: You’re King Mac Daddy Stud Man.
    If you’re a White guy in Hispano territory, 1 out 50 yes’s is great.
    Btw, Germany – Brasil deserves a post.

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    • on July 9, 2014 at 5:22 pm no

      What women (yes, AWALT) want is the (or several) 22-year old, 6’4 Brad Pitt look-alike with Donald Trump’s checkbook who is about to ascend the throne of a kingdom, preferably somewhere rich and tropical…………

      Yeah but the reality is…if that doesn’t work out…9 times out of 10 they’ll take the guy who is none of those things but HE ACTS LIKE HE IS

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    • on July 9, 2014 at 5:24 pm no

      If you get 1 yes out of 10 approaches, you’re doing well. If you get 1 number out of every 100 dances, still good. Anything better than that: You’re King Mac Daddy Stud Man………

      True but once you get that 1 you can get another then another…it’s called pawning/preselection and it works well in clubs you should try it…

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  42. on July 9, 2014 at 8:11 am Mel Gibson

    Goodbye America, Part 513.

    http://www.ajc.com/news/news/california-patrol-head-says-hes-shocked-beating-vi/ngb4f/?icmp=ajc_internallink_textlink_homepage

    LikeLike


  43. on July 9, 2014 at 8:43 am David S

    Great article.

    Unfortunately I have found that some “red-pillers” are just fearful and socially awkward guys who would rather discuss a topic to death than actually approach and game women. So, instead of going out and charming the hell out of a woman, they’ll discuss something to death on reddit or even on here.

    The best way I became truly red-pill was to approach women, become more charming and confident in the process, receive some female attention (including getting laid), and repeat and repeat, to the point where I didn’t give a single fuck about a woman’s machinations or beauty. Sure I get more looks now that I have lost 15 pounds and I am pretty muscularly lean. But I got action just as much when I was heavier.

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    • on July 9, 2014 at 9:53 am mr pink

      “But I got action just as much when I was heavier.”

      sometimes you’ll even get more. this happens because when you’re busy doing interesting things that spark your passion you become very desirable to women. they feed off our passion because they have very few organically generated interests of their own. they are followers and they love to latch onto an exciting man who will take them for a ride into unknown places. exciting/unknown has almost nothing to do with muscle definition/body fat.

      lifting is fun for a while but then most of us plateau and have to change routine/deload and if you’re even partially interested in the world you don’t want to spend your life in the gym doing the same things over and over for diminishing returns. growing as a man and growing muscle fiber are sometimes related but not at all mutually exclusive.

      never listen to what women say especially about body image. electronic media has screwed them up so badly and when they say they like tight toned bodies they’re referring to women’s bodies. remember they are always thinking about themselves.

      spend time in the gym and you’ll meet a lot of type A gym rats. some of the worst lays i’ve ever had were the ones obsessed about their perfect bodies. they can’t let go. spend time in other places and you’ll meet a greater variety of women who will get wet when you describe the experiences they could have with you.

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      • on July 9, 2014 at 10:55 am Tilikum

        outstanding post.

        LikeLike


      • on July 9, 2014 at 11:38 am AErickson

        I have a little under 9% body fat, a good amount of lean muscle fiber, visible abdominal muscles, etc., and can generally concur that it really is not that useful in attracting women. Further, in line with your argument that women are generally pretty solipsistic when it comes to bodies, when first seeing me shirtless, women are more likely to comment “Wow, how much do you workout/I wish I had your flat stomach!” then they are to comment “So sexy/I want your body/etc.” I workout because I enjoy it and because I care about my health; for attracting women it is more important to focus on other things, like charisma and outside passions.

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      • on July 9, 2014 at 12:25 pm thwack

        Deer have very little body fat. If you hit one while driving your car is gonna be fucked up.

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      • on July 9, 2014 at 2:28 pm Scray

        ‘and can generally concur that it really is not that useful in attracting women’

        I disagree. It’s like a night/day difference for me re: how easy it is to pull and open sets. My guess is that you’re either average or above height, so it’s easier for you to pass that threshold for looks girls have. It’s not a high threshold, so don’t get me wrong, but because height can be a huge DQ, having the muscles and lower bf helps me out a lot.

        So….the ROI of having muscles/low bf depends on your other attributes.

        LikeLike


  44. on July 9, 2014 at 8:50 am gunslingergregi

    yea pretty much all in your head ok I realize what bad pda is now
    this dude was at my house and massaging his chick friends shoulders but hasen’t fucked her
    he has been orbiting this chick for two year and has not fucked her
    says he wants to fuck her
    I was in car with the dude and he told me he is playing it really smooth so he can get it all
    I told my girl what he said and was like what all is he gonna get she said maybe he plans on getting it all in the after life
    has seen the chick go through 4 boyfriends since he met her and the chick was talking about she was supposed to marry one of them but that dude bailed
    her orbiter said she been through a lot with the boyfriends and he was helping her
    I tried to help him out got the chick drunk but he said he wouldn’t take advantage of her lolzlolzolzol the chick 45 years old he 53 in shape
    she has 4 kids how would it be possible to take advantage of her lol
    dude had car dealership before and said he used to fuck people over and basically rob them on cars
    I am thinking maybe it is karma that is making him do his penance or something
    I told em they could even go sleep in room upstairs lol
    nope
    but yea don’t be that guy

    LikeLike


  45. on July 9, 2014 at 8:51 am Amanjaw Marcuntte

    https://ca.shine.yahoo.com/lets-talk-leos-beach-body-130000821.html

    LikeLike


  46. on July 9, 2014 at 9:05 am gunslingergregi

    90 percent of Indonesian dudes got the brad pit body
    don’t know what that means

    LikeLike


    • on July 10, 2014 at 3:55 am KP

      “don’t know what that means”

      I see that doesn’t inhibit you from posting about it anyway, alas.

      LikeLike


      • on July 10, 2014 at 4:07 am gunslingergregi

        food for thought maybe?

        LikeLike


  47. on July 9, 2014 at 9:09 am spicoli

    test

    LikeLike


  48. on July 9, 2014 at 9:13 am spicoli

    Zombie Shane…please provide more details on these woman who have “The Darkness”..I enjoy your take on this topic.

    I am 41 married and lift 6 days of week. Not too brag here I just enjoy it. I use this site along with MMSL and RM to help in my relationship game with my wifey. Thanks for your work CH once again.

    LikeLike


  49. on July 9, 2014 at 9:14 am spicoli

    are comments being moderated by CH here? I have one that wont appear

    LikeLike


    • on July 9, 2014 at 3:17 pm thwack

      what color are you?

      LikeLike


      • on July 10, 2014 at 7:32 am spicoli

        hey punk, I am a white man lol

        LikeLike


  50. on July 9, 2014 at 9:32 am gunslingergregi

    kind of sad that I got tired of fucking my bitch again and all these dudes want to fuck my bitch
    oh well it always happens figure it out I guess

    LikeLike


    • on July 9, 2014 at 9:34 am gunslingergregi

      she not tired of fucking me
      so yea same old same old
      wonder if I am just a natural born pimp he he he

      LikeLike


      • on July 9, 2014 at 3:18 pm thwack

        you were in eye-rack

        LikeLike


      • on July 9, 2014 at 9:25 pm gunslingergregi

        don’t forget bosnia too he he he
        missed Somalia and Haiti before my time though

        LikeLike


      • on July 9, 2014 at 10:02 pm gunslingergregi

        wish I was there when the Somalis had American soldiers bodies on crosses
        can’t be everywhere I guess

        LikeLike


  51. on July 9, 2014 at 9:41 am Gro Haila

    Limited experience on how three 6-7 ladies including one church lady (at a church function) responded to fearless approach by a 342 lbs landwhale (me) suggests that our honourable host has set the bar too low for the manboob in the picture.

    If he drops his manboobery, 6-7s would be his staple sexual diet – without physical improvements. With physical improvements, the sky’d be the limit.

    Women out-there are really thirsty for alpha.

    LikeLike


    • on July 9, 2014 at 4:23 pm burke

      I have been north of that weight (6’7″) and while numeric judgments of girls can very a couple points, this (6s & 7s) is true in my experience. It’s an obstacle maybe, but not a roadblock.

      The only problem is that success slows down the motivation to drop weight. Gotta go for hotter and younger now and realize there will eventually be practical limits on their accessibility.

      LikeLike


  52. on July 9, 2014 at 10:00 am bear

    I have observed plenty of normal, average, regular guys make successful cold approaches. Most of the guys who are “successful” with it – who seem to bring someone different home every weekend – just sort of go for it, don’t get too invested if the first attempt doesn’t work, and just keep going until they find a girl who acquiesces. This approach seems to work well for guys who don’t have high standards about personality/character/etc and just want a passably attractive girl to bang. What drives some of the guys in our group of friends crazy is that the most successful ones are not especially attractive, wealthy, intelligent, etc – they simply keep trying until they get what they came for.

    As for day-time approaches, I don’t think you have to be or do anything special. I met a guy at the airport a few weeks ago. We were standing next to each other waiting for a bus, and all he had to say was “Are you from New York?” We had a lovely conversation on the hour-long bus ride into the city! Granted, I think both of us are the friendly types who like to make new friends on public transportation, so we may be outliers in that sense. Also, it should be noted that while he didn’t look like a movie star, he looked like a respectable young man, dressed nicely, polite to people, etc – so material qualities mattered in this sense.

    But the point is you don’t have to psych yourself out of a conversation or a potential hook up. You’re allowed to say hi and introduce yourself to women, even if you don’t look like a model. Some women are narcissistic feminists who will assume any man who says hi to them is trying to rape them, but plenty of others will just take it for what it is and you never know who you will meet or how it will end.

    LikeLike


  53. on July 9, 2014 at 10:50 am Reservoir Tip

    I was walking around Waomart doing approaches one day….

    Just kidding, I was grabbing a few things.

    But while I was there, I saw some huge fat guy pushing his cart along in the store. He was totally leaning on it for support and slowly trudging along, but ahead of him was his thin, attractive wife, holding their little baby boy.

    The wife was probably a 7, and she married this huge, mouth-breathing fattie.

    I didn’t stick around to see what his attitude was like or anything, but big guy had to have had game.

    LikeLike


  54. on July 9, 2014 at 11:00 am Zodak

    i used to think that way, that i wasn’t in shape enough. now i know it’s not that important. when men are all dressed up, in black, where women have no idea if you have abs or not, is when they think men are most attractive.

    when we look like james bond. not when we look like a calvin klein model.

    LikeLike


  55. on July 9, 2014 at 11:33 am Whatnow

    After being told enough times by younger and older straight women, homos and lesbians that I’m handsome, hot, cute, buff, sexy, a pretty boy, etc with no prompting from me (and active avoidance with the gays), I can say with confidence that I’m aesthetic. I can also say that being pensive, grumpy, lazy, withdrawn or waiting around for attention will occasionally get me what I want but usually gets me nothing at all or unwanted and often aggressive attention from homos, fat/ugly/old women and single moms.

    LikeLike


  56. on July 9, 2014 at 12:26 pm Wrecked 'Em

    Having been in possession, separately and coincidentally across the years of my life, of six-pack abs, charm, and $1m in my checking account, I can assert that each exerts about an equal pull on women. However, the sorts of women each attracts and what they’re expecting from you varies greatly.

    Of the three, charm produces the most desirable results and is the most sustainable. Think of CH as kind of a “Charm Gym”.

    LikeLike


  57. on July 9, 2014 at 1:05 pm johns

    So why have so many PUA been caught using actresses in their videos? If their techiques are so full proof, why bother faking anything?

    Oh of course game works, I’m being too cynical and Lance Armstrong wasn’t doping when he won the Tour de France. The reality is, looks do matter. Sure a guy who has exceptional charm, is very rich or has other strong compensating factors can succeed. But the idea that there is some magic game out there that will make the average guy in a women magnet, is a way of seperating fools from their money.

    In the same way that pyramid schemes, and the American dream are myths for suckers.

    LikeLike


    • on July 9, 2014 at 2:30 pm Scray

      He said looks matter, tho. He’s just saying don’t use it as an excuse.

      LikeLike


    • on July 9, 2014 at 3:24 pm thwack

      The reality is, looks do matter.
      ——————————————————–

      cept when they dont

      LikeLike


    • on July 9, 2014 at 5:18 pm no

      But the idea that there is some magic game out there that will make the average guy in a women magnet……………..

      …so would you rather be fearless or top 1% good looking?

      LikeLike


  58. on July 9, 2014 at 5:14 pm no

    I will tack on this and go even further that when a woman is attracted to a man because of his looks that it is often the overconfidence and narcissism, that stems from those looks, that she is attracted to more than the looks themselves.

    LikeLike


    • on July 9, 2014 at 7:37 pm gunslingergregi

      it comes down to what of hers are her girlfriends jealous of

      LikeLike


      • on July 10, 2014 at 12:25 pm no

        That also makes a lot of sense and I see that a lot more with girls in the 18-22 age range.

        LikeLike


      • on July 10, 2014 at 12:26 pm no

        But I think that is more of an external “look” or a style than it is the underlying cool jerk attitude I’m talking about.

        LikeLike


      • on July 11, 2014 at 4:57 pm gunslingergregi

        the underlining attitude comes in a different area when her friends all want you

        LikeLike


    • on July 11, 2014 at 12:28 pm corvinus

      It’s not your looks, it’s what you do with them.

      LikeLike


  59. on July 10, 2014 at 7:54 am Nathan

    THANKS Heartiste,
    I needed this one.

    LikeLike



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