Have you ever had to deal with an annoying girl who answers a question with a question, like she’s trying to put her tier 14 law school degree to use? A reader laments:
Thanks so much for your blog. I’ve read it for at least 5 years, and learned a lot. Lost my virginity at 18, so not a natural, but have banged 25 chicks in the last five months in South America by learning from your blog and others’, going to a spot suited for me, and generally improving myself.
At this point, I mainly worry about specific issues that crop up over and over. One is that I’ll text a girl an invitation, and she’ll ask a follow up question about it instead of answering. I call it the redirect rejection. Examples from tonight:
A girl I hooked up with 8 years ago and have seen twice since. Really.
Me: Better for me. I eat brisket like a glutton. I watch the game. They get you drunk. You come after.
Her: I can’t drink alcohol. (First redirection)
Me: Pregnant? (Plan to get back to the invitation, but first thought I’d tease)
Her: hahhahaha
Her: hahahaha
Her: Can I drink alcohol before traveling?
Me: No. No you can’t. You have to arrive skinny for more contrast with Americans.
Her: Hahahaha
Me: You drinking was the least important step. Most important is that I have my brisket and you come after. I will prepare you for your trip.
Her: What is brisket (second redirection)Not expecting to see her tomorrow
——–
A girl whose number I got at a party and who I have invited out a few times with no success. I had given up. Tonight she texts me.
Her: Hey! You up to anything tonight?
Me: Working up the courage to ask me out? 😉 (don’t chomp the beta bait, frame her as chasing, I toy with dropping the emoticon but I don’t want to discourage her)
Her: Hahahahah. Call it whatever you want.
Me: (stop fucking around and make the plans) Come by at 11. I have the best drink in town chilling in my fridge. Maybe you can convince me to go to [well-known club]
Her: What exactly is the best drink in town? (redirection)
Me: [Image of the bottle with the caption Trust Me]
Her: Haha. Alright. I’m sold.expecting her in two hours
——-
A girl whose number I got out once. Never met up since. Been texting some. She went on vacation.
Me: [funny picture of me on a glaciar, I happen to be wearing tight jeans] are you back?
Her: I’m coming back.
Her: And that photo?
Me: A little present for you. Look how tight my jeans are.
Her: Hahahahahah
Me: I would send you a photo in my bathing suit but I don’t want to cause an accident
Her: hahaha good idea
Me: Let’s get together this week. There is a bar cafe I want to try.
Her: What bar? (redirection)
Me: The important thing is the company.No response.
In only 1/3 did I turn around the redirection rejection, and that was when the girl had basically begged me to ask her out. Is the redirection rejection game over? I know that it means my game up to that point has been weak, but can I recover?
When a girl is in a positive mood and open to you, and she asks you which bar you plan to take her, it’s OK to just tell her, so I wouldn’t consider that last exchange a great example of the redirection rejection. You have to have a feel for when it’s in the interests of both of you to drop the banter and speak plainly. However, the first text snippet is a classic redirect. The reader made multiple meet-up offers, and she responded coyly to each suggestion with a lame question.
The redirection rejection isn’t game over, but it is game on life-support. She’s bored, maybe a little curious where this is going, but so far you haven’t excited her out of her resting female stupor. But she keeps the romantic possibility, however remote, open. Mostly to amuse herself.
If you are getting a lot of these redirection rejections, that means you’ve become predictable. Stale. She can see your friendly teases coming a mile away. She throws questions back at you because that’s her way of trying to extract a little excitement nugget from the conversation. She’s trying to amp the teasing to a level of edginess that makes her vagina feel alive. This is good news in one way: She’s saying you have a chance.
You need to surprise her. Don’t grace her questions with a relevant reply, like some earnest beta looking to solve all her problems. Instead, dodge and dislodge her hamster from its comfy resting state.
Her: Can I drink alcohol before traveling?
Me: Maybe you should stick with diet coke.
Her: Hahahaha
Me: You drinking was the least important step. Most important is that I have my brisket and you come after. I will prepare you for your trip.
Her: What is brisket (second redirection)
Me: 
Be silly, be nasty even. The goal is a seismic shift of her emotional state from boredom to shock, dismay, and intrigue. If, after amping your alpha for a few iterations in this manner she still doesn’t make a firm commitment to seeing you, abruptly stop communication. If you can leave her with her last text dangling for a response, that’s good. She’ll be wondering why you didn’t reply, and it might upset her just enough to plant thoughts of you in her head for a week, after which she may be more amenable to your charms.
[…] The Redirection Rejection […]
LikeLike
There could also be a strong language barrier here – these girls probably speak in a native tongue of Portuguese or Spanish or German. The cleverer and more subtle nuances of language- [as opposed to kino-] driven Game only work on native speakers and only if the nuance is IQ-appropriate [an IQ-130 jab will not work on an IQ-100 dullardette].
LikeLike
Ah, the telltale “first!” posting maneuver of ZS.
LikeLike
[…] The Redirection Rejection […]
LikeLike
Unless you’re banging her already, the offer to cook her dinner is too generous. She needs to earn your approval, which you indicate through low-investment invitations. Example: hey come with me to the grocery store, mail a letter, coffee, etc. That’s where her redirection is coming from. Your already trying too hard.
LikeLike
I didn’t offer to cook her dinner. I offered to meet at a place that was cooking brisket. She said she couldn’t because she was meeting up with friends
LikeLike
It’s a stall technique.
LikeLike
Why not just ignore her question and then throw the invitation out there a few hours later?
Her: blahblahblah?
…Four hours later…
You: meet me at x at 9 pm
LikeLike
That is not polite.
LikeLike
Polite men get cucked.
LikeLike
“That is not polite.”
correct
LikeLike
The GenX coming-of-age memory: GHWB’s helium-voiced “new world order” soundbite.
LikeLike
“Coming of age” can be understood differently by different people. Here I meant it as “early adulthood”.
LikeLike
In other news…
http://nypost.com/2015/02/26/married-tv-host-wakes-up-castrated-after-making-out-with-blonde-stranger/
And the punchline is……… he wasn’t even on his honeymoon….
LikeLike
Responding to a question with a question is a classic Talmudic tactic, BTW.
LikeLike
When the jewesses go into cunty little dick-tease mode – not to mention snarky hateful Lilith mode – they get stone cold radio silence. Let em grow old and barren and become wrinkled spinster hags haunted by the dreams of what could have been.
LikeLike
I though that was Socrates’ shtick?
LikeLike
Socrates and Plato were honorary Pharisees.
LikeLike
You wouldn’t have Christianity as a major world religion without Plato’s Timaeus or Roman Stoicism. Socrates served with distinction in the Athenian Phalanx during the Peloponnesian War and held the truth as sacrosanct above all else. He despised lies and deception. Neither of those men had a weasely bone in their bodies. That doesn’t sound like a Pharisee to me.
LikeLike
The connection is the brisket. Big time jewfood.
LikeLike
Only pickled, not barbecued.
LikeLike
The first is overgaming. All of that stuff about the brisket, the teasing, etc. Just drop it. If you are too “C&F” or too “teasy” you come off like a kid at recess.
Second is also overgaming, but wider margin for error. When she asks you out of the blue to hang out, there’s no need to tease. A lot of people worry about saying ‘nothing,’ because then you look like a loser. So just say ‘not yet, why.’ Losers can hang out with anyone at any time because they never have plans. Social people tend to have plans. Popular people have so many offers that they can wait a bit and choose the best option.
Third lol….sending a pic? She sends YOU pics. So much overgaming. Here would be my exchange:
‘Me: [no picture] sup, are you back?
Her: I’m coming back.
Me: Nice. Let’s get together this week at X time at X location.’
I don’t think it’s about surprise or anything like that. It’s just that chicks can spot a phony. A dude who overgames is a dude who quickly reveals himself as inexperienced.
LikeLike
I read it the same way. There was a sperginess to him trying to stay in the frame when he should’ve led with actual plans rather than hemming and hawing about a brisket, the best drink, and a bar-cafe.
LikeLike
“I don’t think it’s about surprise or anything like that. It’s just that chicks can spot a phony.”- and an insecure guy. They can smell it a mile away.
Nice post Scray.
LikeLike
Depending upon which way the wind is blowing, the redolence of brisket can be discerned at great distances as well.
LikeLike
I agree, overgaming is a good way to put it. Honestly, it is better to occasionally miss the opportunity to make a witty comment, rather than come across as trying too hard.
LikeLike
It’s called “banter.” It happens effortlessly in socially well-adjusted people who aren’t brain-pickled by pickup dogma. Not everything reduces to plotted strategy.
I note the resentment in those who try training themselves in easy conversation but after years still can’t pull it off smoothly. Plan B is to denounce the gift of easy/teasy nothing-talk. “Look at how hard he’s trying!!!” — when it’s not that hard.
Why not “come off like a kid at recess”? Clearly you are worried that the rest of your social presentation — attitude, status, appearance, ability to direct the conversation — can’t withstand self-amusing chit chat.
You humorless simps who can’t crack a smile (sometimes even at your own expense) are the biggest targets there are.
LikeLike
@King A
“You humorless simps who can’t crack a smile (sometimes even at your own expense) are the biggest targets there are.”
…
…lol
King just stop trying to give game advice. You’re not good at it, no one really thinks you have any sort of admirable social skills, and when you give advice you can’t do it without insulting the person and acting like they’re an inferior moron (see this and your reply to Buena above) which by default shows you aren’t very good at social situations or leading other men.
Stick to the bible rants. Know your pay grade. This stuff is just embarrassing and cringe-worthy to read.
LikeLike
I don’t give “game” advice. I am laughing at it.
Now go back and read “socially well-adjusted people who aren’t brain-pickled by pickup dogma” twenty times in a row and maybe you’ll catch my drift — you mincing, defensive, How To Flirt™ hack.
LikeLike
You don’t want to come off like a kid at recess because you’re a man, A.
Don’t confuse bring humorous to pose a challenge and being humorous as a crutch or defense mechanism.
Banter happens when the other party is game for it. You can’t banter by yourself. When the other party isn’t bantering back, then you need to re-evaluate. It requires the use of a skill we call calibration.
All basic stuff.
LikeLike
You’re not laughing at it though. You’re just pitting one game principle — self-amusement — against another — calibration — without realizing it.
Hypothetically he could be self-amusing but his lack of calibration indicates that this isn’t the case.
LikeLike
Right. Except that the fact that “you’re a man” should be screamingly obvious — as I said about overcompensating for one’s social presentation. It’s the contrast — in part — that’s amusing and titillating.
We must have read different text samples. She is obviously participating at every step of the way.
Again, my point. Whatever “we call” a thing, and even if it remains “basic” to you, not only have the concepts been around forever but they are second nature to many people — and can be second nature to you if you stop overanalyzing every social interaction for its “game” components.
Isn’t that a part of your program, to eventually stop scrutinizing and allow newly developed instincts to take over?
LikeLike
Ok so A believes the game here is fine as/is.
No one is talking about whether these concepts have been called different things in different times and represent the same thing.
And sure apparently giving concrete game advice equals overalyzing to you…even though you’re here trying to do the same thing “ironically” (no I’m just laughing at it).
LikeLike
Other replies in moderation…
Except that the fact that “you’re a man” should be screamingly obvious
Here, let me be clearer: an attractive man. Teacher scandals aside, women don’t find actual kids at recess attractive.
Saying that it ‘should be’ obvious is just saying ‘god, she obviously knows you’re an attractive man, or at least she should.’ Ya. I agree. All PUAs agree that it should be obvious that you’re an attractive man. Game principles (or whatever-you-want-to-call-it from The Iliad or Beowulf) are the way to get there.
We must have read different text samples. She is obviously participating at every step of the way.
She’s responding, true…but she’s not really bantering. She’s not trying to one-up him, she’s not ‘playing the game’ with him. Unless you think ‘haahahaha’ and ‘what is brisket’ and ‘can I drink alcohol’ count as banter.
even if it remains “basic” to you, not only have the concepts been around forever but they are second nature to many people
No one is disagreeing with you and no one is even talking about this, so why continually inject it into every game conversation?
can be second nature to you if you stop overanalyzing every social interaction for its “game” components.
Isn’t that a part of your program, to eventually stop scrutinizing and allow newly developed instincts to take over?
There’s a difference between giving game advice according to certain principles and ‘overanalyzing’ social interactions. A pro poker player isn’t overanlyzing poker hands by giving a beginner some advice.
Anyway….are you trying to say that these text examples are good game?
LikeLike
This is a statement of pure, religious dogma. “Game principles” are not how a man establishes attraction. They are diversionary tactics to get women to discount/be distracted from your weaknesses during their evaluation process (like height, lack of status, lack of power, lack of wealth, ugliness, feminine qualities — you know, the sorts of subjects that dominate conversation here). It is far better to eliminate those weaknesses than to temporarily get a drunk coed to forget their importance.
Game is generally a good thing. The Cult of Game is not, as your reflexive fideism demonstrates.
So you are resting your contention on the subjective assertion that this isn’t a good text exchange. First of all, no one saying it is the model of all banter. It is perfectly serviceable and above average. The girl(s) are lucky to have found a guy with enough wit to make her laugh with words on a screen alone. Second of all, it absolutely was effective. “All right. I’m sold” and “What bar?”
Now, he gets paranoid and monitors her for “redirection” to within an inch of the conversation’s life. Aha! She’s trying to trick me! lurks in her every reply. Overall, there is nothing wrong with a casual exchange like the above, given its low stakes and clever little ripostes. My point was — you are dismissing the quality of the texts to make an irrelevant, kneejerk, dogmatic point about unmanly “overgaming.”
And you wonder why I must continually bring up the fact that you formerly asocial, preprogrammed flirt-bots did not invent the principles of seduction….
I have no comment about whether the examples “are good game” because I do not use the constantly shifting, amorphous standard of “game” to make judgments. I do not think in the useless neologisms of “frame” or “calibration” or “kino” or the “ABC technique” or whatever is the latest rediscovery of basic interaction with the opposite sex that so excites this group of reformed social misfits. This week it’s “redirection” — apparently to be applied whenever a woman adds her own unpredictable contribution to a conversation, no matter how innocuous, like which bar to meet him at. Danger! Red Alert!
Keep the game in game. A good standard is your level of self-amusement. You are squeezing so hard onto the end-goal of getting her horizontal that you are dismissing the importance of keeping it casual (“outcome independent” for you jargon nerds). Haven’t you ever looked back at one of your exchanges and just laughed your head off — whether it worked or not? “Pregnant?” is a pretty good, laconic one-liner, and suggestive too. In any event it is funny to me — and to her, worth two straight strings of “haha.”
Sometimes the amusement in itself is all you need. Why else do you think I post here?
Matt
LikeLike
So A, you believe that a) Game does not build attraction and b) You have no comment as to whether the above constitutes ‘good’ game. For whatever reason, you go on to say that ‘game,’ which according to you does not even build distraction and is instead an extended lie or cheat, is a good thing. Perhaps to you this makes sense.
It is far better to eliminate those weaknesses than to temporarily get a drunk coed to forget their importance.
Let’s look at your list: height, lack of status, lack of power, lack of wealth, ugliness, “feminine qualities.” Height is impossible to change. Ugliness, to the extent that it can be changed, takes months (losing fat to thin out face). Gaining more ‘power’ in the world takes years, minimum. Gaining wealth, the same. Game, on the other hand, takes less time to learn and correctly apply.
And then you talk about “feminine qualities.”
I get the feeling that what you would mean by ‘masculine qualities’ is what PUAs mean by ‘game.’ Of course, you act as though there’s a huge difference, and you rail against the fact that PUAs call the principles names that you apparently don’t like.
The girl(s) are lucky to have found a guy with enough wit to make her laugh with words on a screen alone. Second of all, it absolutely was effective. “All right. I’m sold” and “What bar?”
1/3 when, by the initial demeanor of the girls from the txts suggests at least 2/3 — if not 3/3 who would have been down to see him had he not overgamed. You apparently think this is effective.
And you wonder why I must continually bring up the fact that you formerly asocial, preprogrammed flirt-bots did not invent the principles of seduction….
Yes. I’m still wondering. It’s completely irrelevant. Either the underlying concepts are sound or they are not…why do you constantly dick around about what PUAs call the concepts versus the Alphas-of-yore? Totally unproductive.
You are squeezing so hard onto the end-goal of getting her horizontal that you are dismissing the importance of keeping it casual (“outcome independent” for you jargon nerds).
In the set and in the moment be outcome independent. However, practice is for practice. A poker player in mid-game needs to apply his knowledge to the best of his ability and trust what he knows and “fuck the rest.” A poker player who is reviewing his hand history must try to learn new concepts so that he can play the hand better the next time it comes around. Unless you are now averse to the whole idea of practice in a social endeavor.
Like I said, it’s basic stuff, and it still seems like you just disagree to disagree.
LikeLike
DING DING DING DING DING.
YES. I don’t know how many different ways I have to say it, but I’m glad we have one taker at least.
I don’t rail against the principles. I rail against the zealous worship of the principles which makes them out to be something they’re not.
Once more, with feeling.
Game is good.
The Cult of Game is not.
The underlying concepts are indeed sound. The overemphasis of their importance — exemplified by your need to redefine literally ancient principles of social interaction — is overegging the pudding and retarding your development into a man in full.
Stay retarded! for all I care. It’s sad to witness, especially in you who appeared to have promise, but I’m not losing sleep. All I’m saying is: don’t think you can overthrow centuries of wisdom with creative jargon appended to aimless, massive-multiplayer trial-and-error. At least not in my presence. The very sight of it is an insult to “the best that has been thought and said,” which is the idol I zealously worship.
Matt
LikeLike
Yo listen up players. Increase sanity, make sure you stretch it out right. More cervical twitching, less crazy.
Keep it sticky!
LikeLike
[…] Source: Heartiste […]
LikeLike
I have an acquittance who by most standards would be considered Alpha. Is ex military, big time lifter, great big truck, police officer, etc…
This guy is the biggest damn women cheer-leader who put a tattoo of his wife’s name on his arm and constantly talks about how his wife is so great at running their finances. His wife is a spoiled little witch with a fat butt and a negative, complaining attitude. She needs to be bitch slapped. One time I turned the sound up on the radio for a song I liked and she strutted over to the radio and changed the station. I slapped her fat ass while her 300 pound husband looked on in disbelief. She was not ready for it. He is constantly playing White Knight and making like he wants to make sure I am not a mean husband.
When he was growing up his mom used to take him with her when she would go smoke weed and fornicate with other men. His dad was very passive.
LikeLike
Thanks for sharing.
While we’re here though, just because he lifts and has all of these “alpha” things in his history does not make him alpha. Alpha is an attitude, do what you want, when you want.
It’s possible he COULD be alpha and have a tattoo of his wife on his nut sack, but he would need to still be his own man and chose this of his own volition as part of his mission. He did it of his own accord and is willing to walk when she tells him to shave his scrote and he doesn’t want to.
LikeLike
“If this is real, then it is just screaming “Cuckoldry Fantasy” and “Latent Homosexuality”-
Captain Obvious, please explain yourself. I sometimes feel like he wishes I would bang his wife but maybe that is my imagination? He did have pictures of body builders in his garage once with grotesque looking muscles….
LikeLike
> “I slapped her fat ass while her 300 pound husband looked on in disbelief… When he was growing up his mom used to take him with her when she would go smoke weed and fornicate with other men. His dad was very passive.”
PLEASE tell us that you are making up this shit. Please.
LikeLike
If this is real, then it is just screaming “Cuckoldry Fantasy” and “Latent Homosexuality”.
LikeLike
Or maybe his Dad was such a fucking loser that the kid has no idea what it means to be masculine? Maybe certain aspects of masculinity need to be TAUGHT? Maybe what he thinks is masculine – woman rules the roost == “Everybody Loves Raymond” && monster truck == “Built Ford Tough” commercials – was learned from watching television and he’s just behaving the way that he thinks he’s supposed to behave?
LikeLike
“PLEASE tell us that you are making up this shit. Please.”
I wish I could but truth is stranger than fiction. In fact last time we got together I asked him again if that really happened and he said it did a few times but his dad had problems too like drinking too much. lol
LikeLike
“Built Ford Tough” WOW, funny you say that because he bought a dually Ford Truck which he worships. In fact if you say anything bad about Ford he gets upset. Pretty amazing stuff. Gosh I hate to say this but the blue pills that the military gives their guys is potent stuff.
LikeLike
Military and police don’t say alpha. They say brainwashed pawn and white knight. Anyone who joined s the military or police at this point deserves whatever the hajis or soon to be revolutionaries are dishing out.
LikeLike
Seems like fantasy trolling alright. But suppose it’s true.
I believe physiognomy is like chastity and race – something our ancestors knew in their bones but we’re in denial over.
By the common BMI tables, a 300 pounder has to be 7 feet tall or more to qualify as not obese, and 7’8″ or more to qualify as not overweight. And though these formulas don’t quite work for the extremely muscular, I have to assume the ‘pal’ is not named Klitschko or Valuev. With his background and BMI, he’s got to be a tall, very overweight mesomorph.
My guess is that the percentage of men in that group with much womanizing skill is close to zero. They are born to be conventional alphas at best, convention’s pawns at worst, as pointed out.
LikeLike
The fact that you are calling fantasy confirms my thoughts about how crazy this was. His mom came over from Germany and met his dad there while he was in the military. He is about 275 and and around 6′ 1″.
Mom ended up divorcing his dad. He admitted that his mom is bi polar and had quite the sex drive.
LikeLike
Cops and soldiers Can NEVER be, by definition (and socialization), Alpha.
It’s why they chew on barrels.
LikeLike
Another pussy.
LikeLike
Well, I wouldn’t call em’ pussies. Just over socialized supplicants to an imperative that is certainly not their own.
LikeLike
Just facts
LikeLike
@YaReally and other old schoolers – My deepening fascination with state and vibe and NLP have brought me back to Mystery and Ross Jeffries. I know Mystery gets a lot of play in the Archives and there is a lot of good stuff out there with him.
What are your thoughts on Jeffries and his techniques? Are there any essential instructional materials he put out?
I’ll take it off the air…
LikeLike
From Russia with love; A Siberian women’s perspective-
Gays-
“I don’t think I can live in America. I am — how you say? — homophobe? I don’t like gays or lesbians. You guys like them too much, I don’t understand it.”
America-
” I don’t like how America pushes itself and its ideas everywhere. It is spreading here and I don’t like it. For example, the emancipation of women. Now sometimes women here think it’s okay not to be married until later, and guys don’t want to marry either. We don’t even consider Moscow real Russia anymore, as it tries to be so American. I much prefer the USSR times even if that sounds crazy. At least then people got married when they should.
Also we have stereotypes here that Americans are stupid, and sorry but I believe it. Are they really like that?”
http://www.returnofkings.com/14506/thoughts-from-a-siberian-girl
LikeLike
That’s why I married a Ukrainian girl. Most think that way.
LikeLike
An opinionated Siberian woman?
Hey, ptitska, go milk that yak and make me a yogurt!
LikeLike
She’s echoing most of our own complaints. I find her refreshing. Most EE women are more WN than we are. That’s a good thing and a big reason I love them so.
LikeLike
Yes, overgaming.
The dead giveaway is his texts are MUCH longer and more detailed than hers. Better to be shorter, more laconic, less detail.
Review “Bring da movies” man: https://heartiste.wordpress.com/2010/07/29/chicks-dig-jerks-game-is-its-own-status/
Still — kudos for hoisting 25 notches in 5 months.
LikeLike
Game American style backfires on real and feminine foreign women. They are being straight forward and forthright when they say they like you. There aren’t dozens of layers of smoke screens to have to navigate through.
LikeLike
“Hey. I am going to be at X tonite. Bring some cable-ties. You might get lucky.”
LikeLike
I like to use ‘cut the shit’ game with dodgy bitches to quickly vet who has a sense of humor and who isn’t worth my time.
“What’s brisket?” “Shorthand for throbbing, erect, and inside you…if you stop asking me dumb questions.”
“What’s brisket?” “This isn’t jeopardy, so don’t answer in the form of a question.”
“I can’t drink alcohol.” “Oh yeah? Bring your sponsor with you then. Friday at 9 at ________.”
LikeLike
I like it.
LikeLike
Her: What is brisket?
You: What your butt looks like in your Facebook picture.
LikeLike
Her: You can’t see my butt in my Facebook picture.
You: Who is this?
LikeLike
Her: You can’t see my butt in my Facebook picture.
You: No, but you can tell by the look on your face.
LikeLike
And it is when reading posts like this that I think: “Ain’t nobody got time for this $hit. MGTOW.”
LikeLike
The problem with that is that acronym is that it also signifies Men Giving Their Own Wanks.
Sex is a great part of life to eschew.
LikeLike
Especially given that – at least for animals, and many plants – sex is the very FOUNDATION OF LIFE ITSELF.
LikeLike
Gold star.
LikeLike
Off-topic but here’s a good one from the “we were told to” department. Amanda Marcotte deconstructs women’s sexual deprivations :
http://www.alternet.org/sex-amp-relationships/why-so-many-women-dont-enjoy-sex-much-they-could
Having deleted my disqus account to reduce my digital footprint I am unable to offer my elderly wisdom in the comments section. A true loss for today’s women.
LikeLike
It seems that the problem with overgaming is you look too interested in the interaction. Better to be aloof than to overgame, especially on girls 25+.
LikeLike
The women are toying with the guy, which he’s encouraging because TOO MANY WORDS. I agree that each of them, to varying degrees, is saying, “You still have a chance!” which is just friendzone protocol with a 1/20 shot at an uncomfortable hand job. I was dating a girl once and walking down the street we stopped to talk with a male friend of hers. She actually said, as we walked on, “That’s Bob. He thinks he still has a chance!” That was some unintentional, revealing stuff, right there.
Women who want to go out with you make it easy to do so. These chicks are entertaining themselves at our earnest correspondent’s expense.
LikeLike
“Earnest” correspondent? You’re the one suggesting that the very attempt to tease a chick is “friendzone protocol.”
Did you nod along when the sloot said, “He thinks he still has a chance,” like some snarky bored gay orbiting snob? That was your opening to tease her.
“The women are toying with the guy.” The thing about sentient “toys” is, they can hustle a girl all the way in and turn the tables with a single phrase. It’s a game. Games are fun.
The lengths guys go to rationalize a weakness!
LikeLike
The redirection rejection is EXACTLY what happens to me on Tinder. I match with a decent looking girl, tease and joke with her for a bit, then ask for her number / invite her to do something. 50% of the time I get the the redirection rejection, the other 50% of the time I get absolute radio silence. And both happen whether the interaction upto that point has gone well, OK or badly. In some cases I may have overgamed but not all.
Any Tinder pirates want to chime in?
LikeLike
@lurker
reread the OP…both CH’s analysis and solution applies here…
stale…predictable…avoid any of the stale 7 at all costs…
https://heartiste.wordpress.com/2013/01/23/why-ask-why-shun-the-stale-seven-questions/
“And both happen whether the interaction upto that point has gone well, OK or badly.”
these interactions have only gone badly…so far…regardless of how engaging you may believe your ‘tinkering’ has been…since you haven’t gotten any meet ups…
teasing on the way to a meet up = ok…teasing as banter =/= ok…no joking…(not joking…lol)…
also, no asking for her number, tell her to give it to you…same with meet ups…don’t invite = her frame/she’s the prize, tell = you are the prize/your frame…try it and see what happens…
also, try this…NO questions to her, only statements…try it and see how it works…i mean really, do you really care what she thinks about politics… or just how good she looks in that mini skirt and heels?…lol
good luck!
LikeLike
I never use the stale 7. I usually start out with a tease based on one of her pics or the fact she goes to a rival uni, which generally goes down well. Then keep teasing based on her answers etc. I have tried asking for numbers vs telling her, makes no difference. Only ever got a few and they turned out to be uggos after a quick facebook search so I didn’t follow through.
Usually I’ll build some rapport with a few laughs over ~10 messages then go for the number – maybe too early/late?
LikeLike
I get these “redirection” texts when I’m gaming girls online. It gets to the “What’s your number?” and I”ll get: “Where are you from?”
I’ve found that feeding the beast doesn’t work: “I’m from xyz, what’s your number?” often just leads to more questions.
In one case I bantered around with some hot-looking girl…got no where. Then I just texted : “What’s your number?” She gave it. Then I texted her, sent a few photos, she sent hers hot—27 year old…she’s coming to my city to live and work. I arranged a date for next week.
I think with re-direction texts you just leave it:
“What’s your number?”
Her; How tall are you?
Silence…then after a day, “What’s your number?” If you don’t get it drop it.
I also get this:
Me: “Whats your number?”
Her: What’s your number?/ give me yours first.
In this case, I sense her level of interest by the frequency or timing of her response, her age and how she looks in photos.
Response #1: “I’m wearing the pants in this chat young lady…what’s your number?
Response #2 “Well if you promise not to give it to any telemarketers here it is…for chatting purposes only: 555-1234
LikeLike
Her: what’s your number?
You: ladies first
Or
You: ill text it to you
They usually banter a little more after that, but I’ve had success with both responses.
LikeLike
“ladies first” works sometimes. But if they say “let’s chat here for a while”…I leave it. It means I’m working too hard.
LikeLike
Not strictly redirection but I’ve found a great way of yielding high % of numbers when you get this type of response:
You: Send me your number
Her: But I hardly know you etc
You: Your right we should stay Tinder BFF and chat on here forever and ever
Her: Hehe I guess your right – ######
LikeLike
A&A is really good. I often got “how do I know you’re not crazy?” when I asked for a number.
My go-to: oh I am. I kill people too.
“ladies first” works sometimes. But if they say “let’s chat here for a while”…I leave it. It means I’m working too hard.”
“ok, but i’ll have to start charging you by the minute” was a good reply. But, yeah, if the convo dragged on much longer, I just cut my losses.
LikeLike
Well if she does this either a) she doesn’t trust you enough to meet yet or b) she just isn’t that interested.
Whenever I got shit like this I’d just respond straightforwardly. She asks for mine first and I give it to her. Most of the time she gives me hers in return.
And if she doesn’t you can confirm that she isn’t into you/you don’t have enough value. You can evaluate from there whether to call it or focus on DHV’ing.
Keep your decisions simple and your options open. C&F isn’t always the answer.
LikeLike
“Well if she does this either a) she doesn’t trust you enough to meet yet or b) she just isn’t that interested.”
But the line between “he’s interesting” and “I don’t like him” is always in a different place depending on the girl. Getting the runaround is just part of the process, especially online where they have a parade of dudes to choose from.
“Whenever I got shit like this I’d just respond straightforwardly. She asks for mine first and I give it to her. Most of the time she gives me hers in return.”
I tried that a few times. Experience taught me that playing it straight only worked if she was fat, ugly or giving out her number because she liked attention in the form of text messages from nice guys.
Cock, funny asshole always worked better online for me. To each their own, though.
LikeLike
Ya if they don’t give you a straight answer, then you need to build more value. And that would most likely happen with hotter chicks.
But if you try to CF a chick who thinks you’re low value and you go heavy on the C, it’s going to backfire. Think of a smelly homeless man trying to build his value by mostly being a dick. Implausible. By being mostly a funny guy with a little edge? Plausible.
You play it straight to get the information you need to calibrate
LikeLike
“But if you try to CF a chick who thinks you’re low value and you go heavy on the C, it’s going to backfire. ”
Good point. I would usually keep it light and funny, try to build some comfort then ask for the number. If she refused with a shit test, then I’d try to turn the tables with something snarky. And it usually worked. Getting numbers and turning them into dates wasn’t very difficult.
But I’m pretty much done with online game. It was good for getting my sea legs, but I have better luck with regular approaches now.
LikeLike
“hahhahaha”
Makes me rage so much when they reply with that. Like is that supposed to actually be a fucking reply?
LikeLike
This is butthurt. Try amused mastery.
LikeLike
According to this article, the men of Gen X are adrift:
“We married capable women who took over every aspect of life. They ran the household, the children, the social life. For a while it seems a good meal ticket to be on, but in the end the horrible logic of the process results in us being without any kind of a role at all and not much self-confidence to find another one within the existing framework.
———————————————————————————————————
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/active/mens-health/11425655/Why-do-so-many-middle-aged-men-feel-so-lost.html
LikeLike