YaReally makes an important point about female eye contact, and why it’s a mistake for men to wait for flirty eye contact from women before approaching them with promises of lovey lovey long time. Reprinted in full.
Get comfy, this is a long one but stick it out and you’ll read some shit and make some connections that I haven’t seen anyone else really write about before:
For the record I get zero eye-contact from ANY women.
My buddies (esp the ones who are non-white or short, like not traditionally good looking) don’t believe me because they’ve seen me in-field macking girls and they’ve seen me build my value up in a venue to the point where girls WILL throw me eye-contact. But if I’m just walking through a crowd at the mall or down the street or around a grocery store I get NO girls tossing me eye-contact. Hot, ugly, groups, solo, doesn’t matter, I’m essentially invisible by default. It’s not that we look at each other in the eyes and she glances away too fast for me to do anything. It’s not that I look at her eyes a second after she looks away from mine. It’s not that she checks me out on my way up to the checkout counter and then looks away when she thinks I’ll notice. It’s literally they’ll look completely off to the side of me, down, above me, etc. and actively avoid meeting eye to eye.
On the flip side I have a non-white buddy who’s daygame advice to me is always stuff about “man just hold eye-contact and they melt” and it took him a while to understand that somehow a non-white guy gets more eye-contact than a white guy. Logically, I should be the one getting EC and he should be getting ignored. We’re in a city that’s primarily white too, so it makes even more sense that we should be seeing the opposite results. Logically the girls should be checking out the guy who more closely matches their mental image of who they should be with.
I attribute it to being peacocked by default. A non-white dude in a white city is peacocked by default. It’s an unusual sight to see, especially since he walks with confidence so it’s like “huh? What’s that?” and instinctively they look at him. Because they can’t instantly label him in their mind since he doesn’t fit their mold of what they expect to see, they have to observe him to classify him. The same way if a clown runs through the room most people’s heads would turn to look at it just out of reflex. I have a short buddy (5’2″) who gets a lot of looks when he walks into a room too, because again he’s peacocked by default.
These looks aren’t necessarily attraction, they’re primarily curiousity or just a reflex, BUT they DO allow the guy an opportunity to lock eye-contact confidently and not look away and start gaming from that foothold. My short buddy uses the attention to engage people and build social proof quickly.
Whereas I have an extremely generic look. If you had to describe a generic average looking white guy, that description would be me lol Average height, weight, looks, clothes, you name it. I don’t even peacock, no wrist-bands or necklaces or wild shirts or anything.
And the fact that I look like all the other generic white guys ends up working AGAINST me…because how many cool attractive money dudes has she met? They’re rare in general as it is. But there are a TON of lame chodey beta AFC white dudes all around her, from her social circles, to her orbiters, to her classmates, to her friend-zoned childhood best friend with a crush, to every lame-ass dude at the bar who’s ever hit on her. All the guys who seemed cool at first but then turned out to be lame after a couple dates etc.
And engaging these guys can be annoying because they’re lame/boring, they get clingy and needy, the sex is bad, she ends up having to avoid their calls for weeks while they throw emo tantrums or cry about why she doesn’t like them etc. etc. On top of that, who are the primary assholes she experiences, like not the attractive assholes but the ones who legitimately do shitty things to her and her friends? Probably white dudes. Who’s her ex-boyfriend who was a loser? Probably some white dude. Who are the guys on the bus and street who give her weak-ass catcalls and if she accidentally makes eye-contact with some loser on the bus he takes it as a sign he has a chance and sits down beside her with his bad breath and awkward weirdness and she has to engage him the entire bus-ride etc (this is why when you watch a hot girl get on a bus she’ll often be looking down at the floor, not around the room, because she doesn’t want to accidentally make eye-contact with some loser and she’s in an environment where the people are probably losers cause they can’t afford cars lol).
So we have like hundreds or thousands of reference experiences of white guys being lame-ass chodes or assholes, losers, etc. and maybe a couple experiences with legitimately money white dudes who, even long-term, stay high-value.
So if we’re both walking down the street toward each other, is it safer for her to assume I’m one of the few awesome dudes she’s met, or that I’m one of the VAST number of “I don’t want to engage with this guy” guys she’s met and avoid eye-contact? Especially if I look exactly like all the other generic white dudes?
And on the flip side has she ever MET and hung out with, like, a non-white dude or a 5’2″ guy in a primarily white city? No, probably not. She may have an idea of some stereotypes from TV/movies, but that’s about it. So she doesn’t KNOW what my buddies will be like and their body language and vibe doesn’t match the stereotypes she expected so she has to check them out to try to confirm the stereotypes to classify them. They may literally be her first reference experience of seeing one in person. Look at Mystery, you see THAT weird shit walking past you and how can you NOT look out of sheer curiousity at “wtf am I even looking at is this real life??” And if you’re a girl in a bar you want to shit-test that instinctively out of curiousity…but passing shit-tests builds attraction so you’ve just walked into the spider-web he laid out.
I get a similar issue with bouncers, my non-white or peacocked buddies have a WAY easier time getting bouncers to recognize and remember them because I look like every other dude. They’ve thrown out 3 guys that look just like me that night and there are 20 of me in the lineup when they glance over the line and they’re purposely trying NOT to engage us because we’ll be doing some stupid shit like begging to get in or trying to bribe them awkwardly or complaining about the wait etc. so I just blend in with the rest of them whereas the bouncer will pick my non-white buddy out of the lineup all “hey man what are you doing in line lol”. I have to actively get face-time and a few solid interactions with them for them to pick me out of a crowd or remember me.
So there are benefits to looking unusual, even looking a way that would normally be deemed unattractive, IF you can learn to harness the attention it gets you. I tried to explain to my non-white buddy that if he went to his home country where EVERY guy looked exactly like him and 90% of them were losers, he’d experience the same effect and get why girls don’t check me out.
I have minimal to no value until I actively approach a girl and express my personality. [ed: emphasis added] It’s not that I’m unattractive in general because once I approach I can skyrocket in value pretty much immediately and being my charming self and they love me, but before I approach I am just invisible furniture lol That would affect my confidence if I didn’t understand how game/attraction/psychology work, like you get new a new shirt and a haircut or you’ve lost a few pounds at the gym and feel good and walk around and no girls notice you, and then it’s all big sad feels…but because I know that as soon as I engage them and express my personality they’ll view me as a 10, I go from a non-entity they didn’t even realize was in the room to “where did you come from??” puzzlement at how they didn’t notice such an attractive guy was nearby, it’s like I materialized out of thin air to them…and so I don’t care about not getting easy Approach Invites like eye-contact.
Now I could tweak this. If I could grow to be 6’4″, or if I got super Hulk jacked, or if I wore crazy peacocky clothes, or if I pulled up in a BMW, or if I was having a loud conversation with a buddy where I’m expressing my personality, or if I had a girl on my arm, etc. If I do that stuff I’ll get more AIs and eye-contact. Hell the whole PUA community was based around “try to stand out” before you even approach. But a lot of that stuff can be a lot of work for little reward because even with those AIs I’ll still have to approach her since the girls who will approach me will generally be overconfident 5-7s at best…a 9 isn’t likely to drop her shit to come over and say hi to a guy the same way Bill Gates isn’t going to flip his shit and dance down the street over finding a $10,000 bill on the ground because her entire nightlife social circle is often jacked rich good-looking dudes…plus she needs a guy who’s confident enough to approach her. A lot of the really good looking guys you see at the bar who don’t have game and like the guy who just climbed Mt Everest etc. stare at the 9s all night but end up going home with the aggressive/easy 5-7s. [ed: stone cold truth right there.]
Ultimately looks etc. will get you more easy invites but they don’t really matter because you still have to do the hard work if you want the really hot girls. That’s why we say “looks don’t matter”. A lot of these guys working on their looks and money are trying to get jacked and rich enough that 9s will come over and approach them. They’re trying to get Bill Gates to chase a $10,000. That $10,000 is great, but like, he has billions, he’s not going to fish that bill out of a sewer like the average person would. So they’re trying to get around having to cold approach because cold approach is scaaaaaaary! Then they get frustrated because ya they get laid by 5-7s with the occasional 8 and super rare 9 but it’s inconsistent as fuck and they don’t really get to choose. They’re trying to run passive game and hoping that table of 9s is going to come over and ask to suck their dick.
So my logic is that if I want the legit hot girls that have tons of options and turn heads, I have to approach them and express my personality to get them whether I’m jacked and rich or not. Since I have to approach them whether I’m jacked and rich, then logically it makes more sense to focus my energy on tightening my cold approach skills and get better at efficiently expressing my personality and building emotional engagement with them instead of lifting weights and working overtime.
And, plot-twist: BECAUSE I look so average, when I cold approach that peacocked 9 in a nightclub who’s used to only tall rich good-looking guys being confident enough to interact with her, this exact principle I’ve been talking about suddenly works in my favor because now I’M the peacocked one. A guy with seemingly nothing going for him approaching her confidently with game is so unusual that she’s curious. She won’t check me out from across the room by default (tho she might if I DHV a bunch in front of her), but she won’t be able to immediately categorize me when I approach because it’s so unexpected and she’ll shit-test the FUCK out of me (but what does passing shit-tests do?) but if I can run solid game on her and handle her AMOG orbiters, then I’m like some kind of celebrity level value to her because I go against all the stereotypes of what she’d expect from an average looking guy.
But by default I am invisible. Just posting this ’cause it’s something I haven’t seen people address before. On the net we all want to hype up that we’re badasses who strut into the room and all the girls’ heads turn and that that’s the gauge of your game but getting eye-contact doesn’t actually mean shit in the long-run…it comes down to game. I can build higher value by getting in her face and expressing my personality than the jacked rich guy can with his passive “hope she approaches me” game. And if he has to get in her face and express his personality too, then I have more practice at that and a tighter skillset because I was working on that all those years that he was working at the gym and office. I have more experience handling rich good-looking AMOGs than he has experience handling average looking dudes with game and all it takes to get attraction is to be 1% cooler than him to the girl lol
I’ve had really good-looking wings with various skill levels, but like good-looking to where if I don’t do anything the girl will actively ignore me or brush off what I say and turn back to focus on him and I’m literally standing there looking at the back of the head of two girls while they stare up at my buddy like he’s amazing lol And that pissed me off for a while. But because it pissed me off I started getting up in the girls’ faces when it happened. And lo and behold I found that if I pro-actively get up in their grill and express myself, they’ll focus on me instead of him and on my on nights, my BUDDY was the one looking at the back of their heads while they were completely engaged/attracted to ME instead of him…the first few times that happened blew my fuckin MIND. Couldn’t believe what I was seeing, and neither could he lol
But all that was going on is that game has taught me to very efficiently express my personality and engage/captivate girls on an emotional rollercoaster quickly that hooks them and builds my value fast to where I’m higher-value than the good-looking guy who was like “so uhhh do you like coming here? that’s cool…” because he just came from the office where he worked an 80hr week and the gym where he silently worked out with his headphones on and got drunk off pre-drinking instead of heading out early and doing warm-up sets to get social and unstifled.
Now a good-looking rich guy who’s ALSO got game can have problems too, like getting put into a Provider role where the girl wants to date him instead of fuck him right away and he starts having to lie about what he does for a living and pick the girl up in an average car instead of his BMW etc. There was a thread on Rollo’s blog and one on TRP I saw recently where guys were talking about having to hide their success and make up fake jobs and shit. So if you end up having to hide that shit when you get it…then why are you reading this in the office at 11pm on a Friday night???? Go out and sarge, dumbass lol
The reality is that a good-looking rich guy who’s also got amazing game is about as rare as Michael Jordan also being better than Tiger Woods at golf and better than Bobby Fischer at chess and better than Gordan Ramsey at cooking and better than Jimi Hendrix at playing the guitar…it’s theoretically POSSIBLE, if he starts from babyhood and dedicates his life non-stop to all of those things 24/7…but realistically it’s unlikely, because there are only so many hours in the day. If you’re spending 2 hours a day at the gym to get super jacked and working 100hr work-weeks to get rich, that’s all time that you could have spent approaching girls and getting out of your comfort zone in social circles to tighten up your game so you’re not likely to have game as tight as someone like Tyler who’s spending all that time sarging. It’s just logic. The boogeyman myth of the rich good-looking badass guy who also has game is as likely as that All-Star athlete/genius/musician…and hell, even if that guy existed, you think he’s going to be down at your local pub? He’s going to be in exclusive clubs in LA and Vegas partying with Dicaprio lol Your competition is a bunch of average to above-average guys with anything from anti-game to weak-game to above-average game. If you put in the field-time and study you can dwarf them in terms of skill in a few years of hard work.
Give me ten minutes to talk away my ugly face, and I can bed the Queen of France. – Voltaire
Anyone who insists you need initial eye contact from a woman if you want a chance with her is lying. Simple as that. Yes, flirty eye contact can smooth your approach, but it isn’t required.
You want the choicest ladies? You’ve gotta bust a move. Women are, on the whole, the chosen sex, so they are constitutionally averse to tossing out eye contact invitations to random men. Attractive women expect to be boldly approached by worthy men — it’s in their DNA — so why are you waiting for a ceremonial invitation to join their world? That just sucks all the fun out of it, for you and for them.