The previous discussion about ego validation run rampant among Western women and how that changed reality affects the art of seduction generated some fantastically useful comments. Of particular note were the commenters who pointed out that a lot of novices get tripped up stressing the rapport and comfort aspects of pickup to the detriment of the edgier, jerkier realm of game. (And no surprise, either, as most beta males are terrorized by the thought of “acting up”.)
As usual, YaReally, replying to another commenter, provided insight coupled with foundational game principles to help clear up confusion.
““how tall are you?” they usually reply below 5’5″—to which I reply: “I can pick you up like a kitten” which always gets them curious about that imagery.”
This is good. But if you wanted to supercharge it, throw in disqualifiers to add that emotional rollercoaster ride:
“How tall are you?”
“5’5″
“So short. Are you a hobbit?”
“Lol how tall are you??”
“Way too tall for you.”
“Tell me”
“You’re going to need heels.”
“Lol I hate wearing heels”
“Short AND a bad dresser. If you turn out to be bad in bed on top of all that I’m deleting you.”
“Omg lolololz”Basically while what you’re saying is GOOD, and better than what 90% of normal dudes would say because it IS playful and sexual…it could be charged with more rollercoaster/qualifying for more impact/attraction.
It’s not that you NEED it to get the lay…but it’s fun to play with and gives her an experience that she doesn’t normally get with guys.
A great benefit of game is its rarity of use. There’s nothing quite like standing out from the crowd of mediocrities to electrify women’s curiosity.
It’s very rare for her to have to chase or invest or defend herself or impress a guy. Most guys are dying to give the milk away for free as soon as possible.
Beta Male: “You’re really cute. I’d love to take you out and show you a good time. Oh, and I’ll never look at another girl again if you choo choo choose me.”
Alpha Male: “If you can talk about more than Scandal, you have a shot with me.”
Just something to play with. I use a ton of this shit in my game and it’s part of why I get an emotional impact that dwarfs looks.
Like a lot of the guys who cry that girls just care about looks are running fucking boring game (not even talking about normal chodes I’m talking even experienced dudes studying red pill Manosphere PUA game) that’s primarily based in seeking rapport and comfort ASAP and they don’t do push pull and emotional rollercoaster shit so they’re kind of interesting to the girl but they aren’t CAPTIVATING getting inside her fuckin brain and taking over her RAS. So ya she picks the good looking guy over them, but she’ll pass him up if you make a strong enough emotional impact on her. Pimps and wifebeaters aren’t all 6’4″ 6-packed rich jocks. Most of them are pieces of shit but they have more emotional impact on the girl and she’s more invested in them and keep coming back for another hit of emotions.
Emotional impact trumps looks. Or, to put it in CH-ian terms, male power and charm trump male looks. I suspect a lot of the “only looks matter to girls” crowd are the types of pickup slackers who, as Ya wrote, shy from cultivating that jerkboy essence in favor of leveling bedroom eyes at chicks and hoping that one of them is horny enough for that to be sufficient.
This is where the armchair warrior says “but yareally that’s just the low self esteem girls who are probably all heroin addicts that wouldn’t work on a high quality girl!!!” and demonstrates that they don’t go out.
All girls love emotional roller coaster rides, but in my experience I’ve found that the “nice girls” — the ones with low N counts and stable psychology — love the emotional push and pull the most. Why? Because they get to enjoy it the least often, surrounded as they are by niceguy betas who target nicegirls under the mistaken belief that those are the girls likeliest to swoon for their Ol’ Dependable beta male routine.
More Ya:
– self-amusement (you’re not bothering to let her defend herself you’re just moving on on your terms instead of letting her lead the direction of the conversation. A lower value guy lets her lead the convo cuz he wants her to have fun and talk about eat she wants to. A high value guy will do that with someone who’s EARNED it but some bar chick hasn’t earned shit just cause she threw on heels and a push-up bra which is crazy because every other guy lets her lead)
– neg theory (standard shit, it’s not that it necessarily knocks her off her pedestal (negative mindset that assumes you’re starting out lower value than her) it’s demonstrating that she doesn’t impress you by default which implies you’ve had girls at least as hot or hotter than her before because you aren’t dying of thirst like other guys she interacts with and the 10 guys messaging her on tinder and the 100 dudes Liking her selfie etc)
– abundance (how come you’re fucking around aren’t you scared of losing her why aren’t you trying to impress her like these other guys??)
– push/pull and cat string theory (dangling winning your interest just out of reach, letting her pass then failing her etc etc)
– that “he has the wrong impression of me I have to correct” him itch she needs to scratch but you stack it repeatedly so that she has 10 itches (lol) and eventually has to grab you. Imagine how it feels when someone mis-states your view on a subject or quotes you wrong in a way that makes you look bad or mid-represents your views. Instinctively you NEED to correct them. You’ll even do it politely and let then finish and then say “for the record what I ACTUALLY meant was–“. Now imagine before you can get that sentence out they’re already misrepresenting something ELSE about you. And again and again and again. Eventually you grab them and go NO SHUT UP FOR A SECOND LISTEN!!!!! and try to correct it all. It doesn’t matter who that person is and you kind of hate them a little…but you’re emotionally reacting to them. In that moment no one else exists they take over your full attention until it’s resolved.
– then when that above dynamic plays out and they’re fully qualifying themselves to you, you just interrupt and do like Julien where he’s like “you don’t have to try so hard to impress me, it’s fine I already LIKE you. Relax I LIKE you.” and she’s like “wait wut??” because it’s like she was struggling and then someone just dropped the prize in her lap because of some one thing she did and she’s confused and like oh good I mean wtf just happened??? But you’ve given her an emotional rollercoaster ride that the other guy who was talking to her and the guys on tinder etc have no idea how to make her feel
– remember ppl bond thru sharing emotional experiences. If we can’t talk but we survive on an island after a plane crash together we will be brothers for life when we get back to civilization. So it doesn’t matter that none of what you did made sense logically. You could make it as ridiculous as possible. “Oh you don’t like older men (loud) wow why do you hate old disabled people? (to the ppl beside you) This girl pushed an old disabled man down the stairs how fucked up is that.” All that matters is that she feels an emotional rollercoaster with you.
– investment. A prize you don’t have to work for isn’t worth much. The more you invest to get something the more you value it. The harder it is for her to get you to like her, the more value your attention must be worth. Chick logic. “If I’m investing so much effort to qualify myself to him so he views me right, then he must be high value because I wouldn’t qualify myself to a low value man”. When Julien gets into his “get on your knees and beg me for my number” stuff (and like his infield clip in that vid where he tells the girl she thinks he’s just like any other guy and makes her grab him and tell him she likes him and makes her say what she likes about him etc) he making them invest hardcore. Because they invest so much, they need closure. ie – if you beg a girl to take your number, she’s not going to give a shit when you txt. But if you make HER beg, and in juliens case basically debase herself for your approval and drive her thru enough qualifying and investing she will NEED to fuck you to justify all that investment…because if she invests all that and debases herself for you then DOESNT get the lay, I mean, then she was just dumb and embarrassed herself. But if she fucks you then it was all a brilliant plan on her part. At least that’s her logic lol
No one goes to a theater to watch 2 hours of happy people being happy. They go to feel a rollercoaster of emotions good and bad. It makes them feel alive.
Women fall hard for men who know how to take them high, and drop them fast, until their pretty little hearts are sitting on their sleeves.
You need looks. If you don’t have looks, no “game” can make it up. Sexually successful men don’t need “game” and all these strategies to get laid — women pre-select such men based on their looks and status. When a woman pre-selects you, it’s your game to lose.
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Im feeding the troll here… Looks are a force multiplier for game. It helps sure, but its not the end all be all.
I get laid way more now than when I had abs, now that my game is air tight.
I eat chicken fried steaks, drink beer, and bed beautiful women like its going out of style.
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Looks have initial attraction and don’t work the same with all women. You need conversational skills and other social skills and to be bold, beyond looks.
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Dumb, dumb, DUMB fucker.
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fwiw, I agree wid ya
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If by “looks” you mean a cold distant aloof alpha eye of the tiger, then you may have a point.
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As anyone who does well with women knows, looks only matter in the first twenty seconds or so. If a man has not hooked her through his words and vibe by then, his looks won’t help him past that.
Now… here is the part a lot of commenters here don’t like. If we agree that looks can be superceded by sufficient Game, than so can race. Game has unsurprisingly enabled colored guys to score with pretty white women that they could not have gotten without Game.
If looks can be nullified by sufficient Game, then so can race (as well as wealth, etc.).
Therefore, Game is the bane of white nationalists since colored guys are using Game to bed white chicks.
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Only because we have driven fathers from the home, which is part of the plan, but you already knew that.
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Proximity + proximity = fukcing
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It’s not game that transcends race… it’s letting darkies and women flounce about in society with no decorum and no restraint… all encouraged by the masters of the MSM for reasons that are obvious.
There was plenty of proximity, especially in the south, before the cibble rahts era… yet relatively little miscegenation, beyond the lower orders of the urban areas and shanty towns.
The muh-dik neener-neeners of the t-h-w-a-c-ks of the chateau are to be expected… but guys who blather their nonsense about WN hating game are just shilling cuck fetishists… typical of their you-know-who stripe.
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Every time a chimp miscegenates with a white woman, he is tacitly acknowledging the superiority of white DNA. Some part of him wants his children to be whiter than he is because he knows whites are better than blacks.
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Greg,
That makes no sense, but coming from you, that is to be expected.
If Game works, then it works when a colored guy uses it. Period. If you disagree, then you are agreeing with the ‘Game doesn’t work’ crowd.
Black guys with game have used it to bed white women that they might not have gotten without game.
Are you actually going to disagree with this?
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Some part of him wants his children to be whiter than he is because he knows whites are better than blacks.
If only that were true. If it were, then black women would be going to a sperm bank to get white sperm, and there would be only mulatto babies. All negrotude would vanish in two generations.
So why aren’t black women doing this? White sperm is available at banks..
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I’m going to disagree with that. Blacks don’t use game (in the sense of game being skills and self-improvements picked up on pua blogs). Those kinds of blacks are negligible in number. They use whatever it is they do naturally, which is a combination of persistence, natural charm in many cases, and opportunism.
Opportunism is a big one. They test girls for openness to mixing all the time by saying something to her. The white girl can respond in one of three ways: polite but coldly and completely uninterested; pro-forma friendly but utterly uninterested (most common type of response); and “banter-on” response.
This helps him identify a girl who is open to mixing, and from there on, it’s not so much game; it’s closing a done deal. Those girls almost invariably (the word “almost” is probably unnecessary here) are physically repellent to White men, and if not, you’ll identify a mental or emotional defect in them sooner than later.
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There was plenty of proximity, especially in the south, before the cibble rahts era… yet relatively little miscegenation
—————————————————–
Wrong Greg; there was lots, especially during slavery. The negress was all too willing and there was no down side for the white man, no child support, no threat of marriage…
Not only was he making another slave, but he was making a very LOYAL one.
I aint mad at ya.
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PA,
OK, that makes sense. Thanks for the more logical explanation.
This brings up another question. If blacks are so desperate to get the superior white genes, why aren’t black women going to sperm banks to get the genes of the top Dolph Lundgren-type man? Their kids would have an edge in life, and blacks would vanish into mulattos and eventually whites in two or three generations.
Had this process begun a century ago, we wouldn’t even have to endure blacks in our lifetimes, for they would already be vanished away.
Their desperation would ensure their own disappearance…
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PA
Opportunism is a big one. They test girls for openness to mixing all the time by saying something to her.
————————————————————————————-
Is that not game?
I also test girls for openness to:
music, cocaine, lavender, motorcycles, guns, badminton; BY SAYING SOMETHING TO HER…
is that not game?
Sometimes I just stare at that ass till it get hot and she looks; is that not game?
Look faggot, I don’t deny theres some preselection going on for the dark oak, but to deny brothers got game is absurd.
“opportunism”
LOL
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You missed the part where I said “Blacks don’t use game (in the sense of game being skills and self-improvements picked up on pua blogs). Those kinds of blacks are negligible in number.”
Feel free to agree or disagre with ‘negligible’.
Cool dem britches and read carefully boy.
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PA,
That makes sense. Thanks for providing the insight that others could not.
This brings up another question. If blacks are so desperate to get the better genetics of whites, then why aren’t black women going to the bank to get the DNA of Dolph Lundgren calibre men? The best DNA of all is available to all women, including black women.
If black women did this, blacks would vanish in two-three generations. If this had started a century ago, we would not have to even see blacks today. There would only be whites and tannish whites…
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“why aren’t black women going to the bank to get the DNA of Dolph Lundgren calibre men?”
I’ve seen Black women light up like fireworks when a White man genuinely flirts with them. Every time. Also, they go gaga over socially adept White men with swagger. But they rarely get sincere ioi’s from White men, especially ghetto Black women, so they default to a posture of either indifference or contempt.
Also, you can’t discount natural sexual chemistry. Same-race works for black women on a physical, hormonal and cultural level, while the male is more eager to find other women.
If by “bank” you mean anon sprem donors — lower class women of any race can get a Danish medical student’s DNA, but lower class pregnancies tend to be done more, um, in the moment. My guess is that banks are mostly used by lesbian coupes.
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Cool dem britches and read carefully boy.
————————————————————–
It matters not; guys like you are always fishing for some way (often desperate) to discredit the black man; makes me wonder if you know Im better than I think I am?
Why don’t you put down that happy meal and hunt what you can catch instead of getting mad when you see me eat?
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I even threw in that bit about blacks’ natural charm, but m0nkey all talk no listen. M0nkey no learn.
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Anon2, your cuck neener-neeners are tiresome…
It doesn’t take much “game” to bed girls, white or otherwise… it’s what boys and girls do, from the beginning of time… and any swinging Richard with a modicum of social savvy and something going for him skill-wise has no trouble getting laid… never did.
Harping on how “game” has allowed negroes to bed whites is ridiculous… especially considering the usual case of what the white girls look like… be breathing and wink and you’ll get most of those land whales. DUH!
Relaxing the societal mores by which man/female interaction is judged is why more white women are acting in ways that would have shamed a whore thirty years prior.
And how does it not make sense that miscegenation has only proliferated over the past few generations, when “anything goes” has taken over the behavior of women and nonwhites in the Western world?
When it was officially looked down upon by most of white society, and when segregation was de iure and well as de facto, the instances in which it occurred were minimal.
Now, it’s touted in damn near every movie, magazine, and TV show… commercials even, for crying out loud!
Hell, as recently as 1960 an up-and-coming actress from Sweden torpedoed her career in Hollywood by marrying a negro.
In the future, if something “makes no sense” to you, check your premises… don’t embarrass yourself further by questioning the mind and experience of your betters.
You fairy.
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My other replies keep getting eaten, so one more time.
Funny how “opportunism” makes sense, but my description of how society now provides infinitely more opportunities for women and nonwhites to do and say whatever the fuck they want, with the heartiest blessings of the MSM… up to and including TV commercials, for Christ sake… “makes no sense”…
I guess, merely because it came from me… you cuck-fetish fairy.
If it’s “game” that gets negroes the white land whales they’re usually seen with, well… then the definition of game must be merely “breathe and beckon”.
Try to remember, the Heidi Klums of the planet are the exception, not the rule.
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The first step for nerdy white betas to get some semblance of game is to act like most black men act naturally: not shy (at all), no fucks given attitude, aggressive, not putting women on a pedestal (saying “daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaamn girl!!!!” in an exaggerated manner and staring when hot woman walks by), acting like “of course you want to fuck me”, being an animal-like asshole no fucks given, not showing any shame for looking at and grabbing “dat ass” like the piece of meat that it is.
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My previous comment got eaten in mod.
But my point is, white men probably benefit more from game because we’re the ones having our confidence constantly kicked into the ground by Cultural Marxist propaganda.
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Greggie,
In case you were wondering, I don’t read your comments. Life too short to waste on reading an attention whore (the rare few that are male).
Remember that in the future, when you aspire to address your betters.
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Heh… if snark were game, you’d be up to your neck in ‘tang.
As it stands, you’re just another dweeb trying to run South Park spiel on men whose shoes you couldn’t fill.
Avaunt, you half-witted pismire.
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Wrong yourself, t-h-w-a-c-k… all them Washingtons and Williams’ running around merely took on the Anglo name of their masters… no blood invovled.
Ever wonder why all we ever hear about is that Sally gal from alleged Jefferson concubinage? And even then, that DNA was more likely that of his no-account half-witted brother, who liked to do nothing better than to hang around with the help and play harmonica.
Of course, like all the gals who think they were Cleopatra in another life, you darkies like to imagine aristocratic lineage from your erstwhile masters… when the truth of the matter is, most “white” blood in modern negroes stems from postbellum shanty towns and urban areas where the poor whites and negroes were in proximity.
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When it was officially looked down upon by most of white society, and when segregation was de iure and well as de facto, the instances in which it occurred were minimal.
—————————————————————————–
Bullshit Greg; the white man has left a trail of non white babies where ever he has gone in this world; why do you PRETEND race mixing is the fault of white women?
YOU white men are the biggest offenders but you wanna ticket everybody but yourselves.
Stop doing that and start telling the truth for a change.
white man lie a lot.
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Bullshit yourself, t-h-w-a-c-k… the aristos didn’t freely mix with their help… most of your folks’ admixture came postbellum, where poor whites and negroes were in “proximity” in shanty towns and urban areas.
We’ve been through this before, but you just keep trying the ol’ Cathedral canards over and over.
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And try to stick to the subject at hand, rather than your usual diversionary tactics…
Nobody said nuthin’ about whether it was male or female in days of yore… obviously the men were out and about in the world, conquering this land and that, so DUH!
The topic at hand, however, was modern times and “game” being the main reason making it possible for negroes to bed white women.
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Hell, as recently as 1960 an up-and-coming actress from Sweden torpedoed her career in Hollywood by marrying a negro
—————————————————————————-
sounds like she found a bigger torpedo?
(neener neener)
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Oh look, Elliot Rodger finally has access to the Internet again.
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Which look? Some women go for certain looks over others. Where is your scientific study on this? Your proof? I will say that women like muscles and height, but nobody here would argue with that and you know it.
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her: how tall are you?
me: when I’m standing up or lying down?
The dialog is, as the lawyers say, an incomplete hypothetical on my part.
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I like the ” I can grow another 8 inches”
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I have a bad habit of answering questions with questions just be careful of doing it too much. Not that you are doing anything wrong.
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a handy tip for text game is to never use the question mark
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For short guys…Im taller lying down
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Appealing to women’s emotional thrill-seeking. Need more and more thrills!
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The confidence that women find attractive in men is confidence that can’t be faked — confidence that stems from being a winner. Imagine being a good looking guy with a normal personality. You would have received social validation endlessly throughout your youth, leading to a confident personality. The sort of dweeb who needs “game” can’t naturally exude that type of personality, in addition to being handicapped in the looks department. The fact of the matter is, gents, that the current sexual marketplace is fucked up, and “game” is nothing but an attempt take advantage of the desperation of many a beta or sub-beta male.
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Retard.
Bobby Peru gonna fuck your girl homie.
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Wild at Heart is one sick f*ck movie. Those teeth, those teeth uuuggghhh!
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And yet, once he got his finger on that cl!tor!s, all her virtue went straight out the window. And, truth be told, once she opened the door, and let him in the motel room, it was only a matter of time until he got his finger on the cl!tor!s.
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Apparently Fuchs News just declined to renew their contract with Sarah Palin. When she first burst on the scene, in 2008, she was 44, and at peak pre-Wall MILF-ism. Now she’s 51, and post-Wall, and it’s all downhill from here. Good Gawd Almighty she was a smoking hawt MILF back in 2008.
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This FNG is obviously and totally wrong, and he (she?) makes no substantive points that we even have to bother refuting…
I wonder how a free-access blog can ‘take advantage’ of male readers? That’s a new level of trolling.
Meanwhile, this student of game plans to continue enjoying sexual pleasures with desirable women…
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“I wonder how a free-access blog can ‘take advantage’ of male readers?”
old CH preached love + flings.
new CH (ya) preaches just flings.
new readers are missing half the equation
[CH: that is false.]
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Replying to a troll-like commenter, it needs to be said though. Looks matter less with each passing second once you open your trap. Imagine your favorite example, Brad Pitt. If he can’t speak w/o stammering and acts like the clingiest chic you ever knew, how do you think the chic is going to react? You need to step back down to an amateur blog.
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The confidence that men find attractive in women is confidence that can’t be faked — confidence that stems from being a winner. Imagine being a good looking girl with a normal personality. You would have received social validation endlessly throughout your youth, leading to a confident personality. The sort of fat pig who needs “game” can’t naturally exude that type of personality, in addition to being handicapped in the looks department. The fact of the matter is, ladies, that the current sexual marketplace isn’t any different, and “game” is nothing but an attempt take advantage of the desperation of many an ugly or fugly chick.
fify
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I’m sure we get the difference between the Omega Male and the Beta Male.
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Gurney
If what you say is true, a mans success with women would be largely fixed and un-change-able by his own efforts.
It also implies that women are good judges of mens actual characters – the part that cannot be “faked” in other words.
You also have this notion that giving advice away for free is “an attempt to take advantage of” a class of people.
Personally, I think those are among the wrongest ideas that anyone will ever encounter.
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[…] By CH […]
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gud poast
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[…] Rapport And Comfort Are Fine, But You Need More Than That To Attract Girls […]
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This was a brilliant breakdown of outstanding game. Perception manipulation at the highest levels and only a a small percentage of men can even fathom attempting this and even a smaller percentage of those who attempt can pull it off as well in “live play”…especially with an 8 or above.
Do not get me wrong…I am not saying it is hopeless or doesn’t work for the average beta. I definitively think you can apply it and increase your close rates tremendously, even for a slouch with little charm. I am just recognizing the skill level it would take here for an average beta. This is like John Elway describing how to gently land a TD pass in the corner of an end zone with no time remaining on the clock. That is how skilled this task is to an average beta man…as a reformed beta I can attest. I was red pill fortunate that I already had natural personality…just no balls. That was an easy fix. The art being illustrated here is another story and if not for my own natural gifts…I would be staring up a steep mountain.
Even if many of these betas commit their life to learning this craft…there is a natural ability or X factor that I believe is intangible and perhaps even a born gift. I see it in my fellow “wanna be” salesman all the time…or lack of it I should say. No matter how another skilled salesman illustrates the craft to an unskilled wanna be…if the X factor isn’t there…it goes no where. I use my Michael Jordan example. It was extremely advantageous to Michael Jordan to be 6’6 and not 5’6. A 5’6 version of Michael Jordan could work on his game twice as much as 6’6 Michael Jordan and never reach the same level as the 6’6 MJ. So the Godly gift of being 6’6 was a tremendous factor in being Michael Jordan and not Spud Webb.
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Great comparison.
Nothing worse than a fake salesman. Maybe thats how chicks feel about guys with bad game haha
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Stryker
Gonna have to be on this here though. I know your hearts in the right place but your conclusion is wrong. First comparing physical gifts and athletic skill to learned social behvior is a false comparison . A 5 5 Mike couldn’t compete because he couldn’t grow.
However a midget of game can become a giant through application learning and persistence.
Consider Tyler… Short unattactive Sperry in the shadows of Mystery and his hats and magic… Yet he triumphs.
Or our own YaReally…. Who by his own account is a shortish chubby introvert who was a virgin at 24… And now triumphs.
You don’t hear either of the guys saying they had the skills just couldn’t apply them which would be the case if it was innate. What you do hear is they were total misfits and overcame the limitations of their personalities through grit and a greater understanding.
That path is open to all. Just go do the work.
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Epic situation at HP. Guy with cane comes in struggling to walk. He motions at me and mumbles. I ask if he wants my seat and he nods. The whole place is watching. His wife (7-8) says “oh you don’t have to”. I say no problem and go outside to sit. Wife comes out and just gushes. All kinds of ioi. I say no worries. Get her name and she tells me she works at the place down the sidewalk. So within minutes girl after girl comes out to use their phone and orbit me. Hilarious.
By the way saw all kinds of white knighting by a couple beta guys today. Was sickening.
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She told me her husband had a stroke.
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You’re hoping she wants to have a stroke as well, I’m guessing.
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Soft ball pitch for Greg
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This is exactly what I asked for.
Thanks, CH. The house of heartsie never fails to bring the fire.
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Hey CH! I know you’re keeping score on that murderous sperg in SC. You’re battin at least an 870
[CH: ima goddam prophet!]
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Is it possible a dude who could walk into a church and kill 9 people; could not walk up to a girl, stare at her tits and say: “are those real?
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They may be real, but are they spectacular?
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the insight is good but it is where it is coming from the always sounds the alarm -> “It’s not that you NEED it to get the lay…” really ..get the lay..
most anyone who has gotten really great at something..whatever that is.. became focused on the process..results were a by product of hard work and commitment.. great teachers dont dangle carrots ..
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two bits
“the ones with low N counts and stable psychology — love the emotional push and pull the most. Why? Because they get to enjoy it the least often”
AND they haven’t burnt out their souls on a cock carousel, so the emotional pre-relationship stuff is truly an experience to them not just a milepost on the way to their next walk of shame
“Women fall hard for men who know how to take them high, and drop them fast”
as the pimp in ‘the shield’ i think said it best:
“Any punk can get some crack ho to go down on dick.
But how do I get a little pink toe from Westwood to do what I say whenever I say?
Every chick got a hole in her heart.
And it’s connected to the one between her legs.
I just figure out how to fill it and then I feed it to her.
And I keep feedin’ it to her till it’s overflowing, until she can’t live without it.
And then I take it away.
That makes me God.”
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comment of the year
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This commenter has either studied the archives and distilled it all down to one post, or is exactly what it appears to be. Fair play to you either way.
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Ya- you have a blog?
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Click my name.
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Thankee
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Unrelated: I just returned from Twin Peaks restaurant outing with the wife. She noticed how badly I was treating the waitress, which she noted, then finally commented on my ass-holery at a the water park on vacation when I offered to take the teenage grandaughter of a man who, frustrated with his grandkids, jokingly offered them for adoption.
Maintain the attitude.
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Just give me the noche.
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Am I on restriction?
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This explains so many of my failures. But how do you know when you’ve built enough attraction, and it’s OK to proceed to C1?
Originally i was toning things down in order to not overgame; What indicators should I base my calibration on?
Thanks!
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OT.
Just ordered up these:
http://tinyurl.com/oghnw77
Going on my motorcycle helmet.
Fuck ’em all!!
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Post stuck in mod – tldr: how do you tell when it’s time to move to c1?
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Look at the chart…. Female to male attention and Kino.
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[…] Source: Heartiste […]
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Actually it’s makes more sense that insults trump compliments the same way the news industry knows that good news stories are okay but bad news brings in the ratings because everyone feels pain worse than they feel pleasure. That is to say, threat of punishment is a far greater motivator than promise of reward.
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> “push/pull and cat string theory (dangling winning your interest just out of reach, letting her pass then failing her etc etc)”
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One I use a fair bit on small tiny waisted girls, damn girl you are tiny. I could throw you like a vortex. Always gets an interesting smirk and laugh
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Time for ya really to write his own blog.
And you can’t beat those old Mystery vids on game. In fact from a theory perspective I have yet to see a pua who can touch Mystery on theory. Some give solid in field approaches otherwise.
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Putting too much stress on asshole game poses an equally serious threat to success, I think. Once you realize that acting like an entitled, disinterested jerk works, you can push it too far, not knowing any better. I’ve done that several times, then tried to compensate by acting like an available nice guy. Both extremes push girls away; the trick is to balance the two.
It’s only with persistent practice that I’m gradually finding my center, and I doubt that I’m alone in this.
[CH: over-emphasizing either aspect of game is detrimental, but most men have trouble placing enough emphasis on taking a walk through the jerkier side of life. it’s a lot easier to ask questions and listen intently than it is to tease and push a girl away.]
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Nice!
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Gas =attraction
Brake =comfort
Clutch = rapport
Drive your game like a 911. Pay attention to the road!
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Reblogged this on XWorkx.
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@YaReally was djing a party last night in a city I’m visiting for a business trip. Suddenly a wave of cute young girls come in…I notice one, HB8, young, slim, big eyes, great legs….I ask her to dance as some beta shlub pulls her up. I walk back to the DJ booth. She eye codes me afterwards and we dance…I start with the “I could pick you up like a kitten….” she’s giggling away…starts qualifying herself, she’s actually short but wearing heels blah blah blah.
She then says she’s coming to my city in 2 weeks for a holiday alone: “My parents are very protective of me so they want me to visit a friend”… She says.
Me: “Better not tell them you’re meeting up with me” I say…assuming the sale and smiling. She picks up on this right away….It’s not overtly sexual. She was digging this risqué, slightly naughty commentary on my behalf. I now calibrate the sex talk but make it more covert.
Then after we finish dancing I say: “I want to try something…” I then pick her up and lift her by lifting her from her armpits like a forklift…..she’s light as a feather and flies up giggling away—again that sensation of going up and down is also a tingle…—like a roller coaster.
I number close her. Then leave. She asks me where I’m going—good sign.
I text her: “Hey salsa baby, thanks for not stepping on my feet. Let’s hang out when you’re in [MY CITY]
She replies at like way past midnight: “haha no problem, btw—what’s your last name? I want to make sure I meet the right walawala”
She now wants to google me and check my FB profile… I never address the obvious…that would freak her out.
Me: there’s only one walawala…” I write, I give her my surname. For sure, let’s do drinks that Saturday, dancing, epic nite”
She thinks I mean this weekend. “THis Saturday? How long you in town for?” Great IOI.
Back tonite…more banter, then I tell her i’ll be in her office area and I’ll be free after 3pm. “Will text you. Maybe can kidnap you for a coffee nearby”
Her: 15 mnutes in heels, 10 in flats lol. Yes sure I should be able to get away for a bit around that time.”
Ok, she’s keen. Why? Because I’ve been different, mysterious and tapping into her cuiousity based on the “my parents are very protective comment”= I’m up for a crazy time. We meet for that coffee….she is dressed hotter today than at the party: short tight skirt, heels, make up—did she wear this to work or go home to change for me???? I lay on the comfort mixed with teasing, then ask her lots of questions about her.
This is something I don’t think guys do—it’s the building comfort. I inject a few DHV stories about my work or travel. Then I have to go. I make plans to meet her when I’m back in her town. I just assume it: “When I’m back we’ll go for dinner just chill and hang out….”
This is the type of hot girl I would have been tongue tied around in my beta days….
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sooooo then what?
Good story, good job bud. Proud of you. How many times do you want to repeat this pattern and outcome? Lets say you can do this at will.
Then what? Whats next?
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instead of posting trolling comments like this why don’t you share of some of your own experiences—if you have any.
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Dude, not trolling, asking. I’m actually giving you credit for skilz and asking how you progress further.
Weird how you got all defensive.
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Heh, heh… when you’re even boring silly tilly with your field reports, you know it’s time to up the ante.
lzlzozlzozlzozlzozlozlzolzolzozlozlozlozlozlozlozozlozl
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Then wala keeps doing the most fun and interesting things he can do with the most complicated thing in the known universe, the human mind.
Until he’s too old to do that anymore and soon dies. Like all of us. Except he’ll have had a lot more fun and discovered a lot more about that complicated thing than 99% of people.
Whaddya want here? Odin?
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Well, he probably doesn’t post his stories, because getting pegged by vibrant folks is a different thing altogether?
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@Tilikum After that I texted that I’d be back in her town in two weeks and we would meet up.
In fact I just assumed the sale: “When I’m back, let’s meet up, we’ll hang out…”
She was like cool but I have to get up early for my flight the next night–a kind of typical girl rationalization that I shot down saying “I also have to work early…we’ll keep it cool and then hang when you’re back in my town the following week”.
The point here is that I could see she was completely compliant. From my talk with her I could see she’s lead a sheltered life and going along with the flow here was a very cool thing because after I’d build up attraction and moved into comfort she was easier to get compliance from.
Next I expect a series of shit-tests when she comes to my city for her holiday. But on the other hand, I’ve met girls on holiday and they tend to be more open-minded because they’re here for a good time not a long time and so are more likely to stay out late, come over, have drinks and do stuff they would never dream of in their own city or country.
I met an older (37) but still hot girl on my last holiday. Same thing, I assumed the sale: “TOmorrow we’ll go biking and have beers…” she was all into it, I escalated and we made out and she came to my hotel that night. Didn’t bang her due to LMR and her friend kept calling her. But we’re still in touch and when she does come to my city for her work we’ll pick up where we left off.
IF this doesn’t work out….doesn’t matter, I’ve gone further now than I would have 5 years ago.
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She’s chasing. You need to go a bit more aloof on occasion to keep her chasing. Std. push-pull.
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@ads I wont see her for another 2 weeks anyway, will generally text a few days ahead of my trip to say “Hey, back in town, let’s meet up…” and logistics. This is standard. If I hit any snags…Next.
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OT:
Apparently Amazon has removed the confederate flag from its site.
One can,however, still purchase an israel flag or a hamas flag depending on wich of those terrorist orgs you support.
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@YaReally: “So it doesn’t matter that none of what you did made sense logically. You could make it as ridiculous as possible. “Oh you don’t like older men (loud) wow why do you hate old disabled people? (to the ppl beside you) This girl pushed an old disabled man down the stairs how fucked up is that.”
I agree that this is a great method, but the video of Julien messing with that girl about being a bad kisser wasn’t the best example in my opinion. I think doing what he does but doing it with more of a playful vibe would be more of my style. He just seemed a bit weird and neurotic in that clip instead of just playfully messing around. Know what I mean? Did you get that feeling at all, or am I just misreading it?
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He’s just showing the extreme of how far you can take it. By society’s logic he shouldn’t be able to be so “mean” and get the girl but what he’s doing triggers instinctive behavior. You can be nicer with it. Some girls respond really well to being harsher with it. Calibrate as you go.
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@YaReally
quick question on routines vs more rsd stuff. I’ve heard the ‘don’t learn routines, you’ll just have to unlearn them, you don’t need them’ speil from the rsd crew. However I just watched the vh1 Pickup Artist 1st season for the first time, & was blown away by how successful some of the novice guys were with the canned material, & it has shown me sticking points in my game. You seem to running game that is not as “socially proofed” as you have done in the past & I guess you have to rely on more verbal & physical DHVs, so just interested in your thoughts on the matter, as I remember reading one of the old school very well known & heavily routine based guys attempting suicide after having banged upwards of 200 girls & having an off night, commenting on how routines were rotting his soul… perhaps more correlation than causation but nevertheless. Appreciate your insights.
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@YaReally – just left a question on your views on routines which got caught in mod. Then checked your archives, answered all my questions lol. Just in case my qu’s ever get released by auto-mod…
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@Junior I learned some of the routines that were congruent with my personality and would be something I could adapt and be natural with. What I like is Krauser’s model because it’s a structure with clear developments expected at each point in the interaction.
The problem with canned routines is there’s not way to measure your progress—you just memorize them and then plough them out.
Krauser’s model is a series of spikes and then escalation points. Once you understand that model you can adapt it and also understand how to better calibrate and when to eject.
Canned routines are just that “routines”–you go through them but there isn’t any measurement of “is this a sexual spike?” then move back to comfort, dhv,,,,sexual spike, introduce kino… that sort of thing.
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All of game is a meta routine. Krauserrs model is just a huge routine.
Routines get a bad rap because people think they are unoriginal and therefore have less value.
But It’s all stimulus response feedback loops so just use your routines man. Make them your own and execute.
Routines are great because you can test reactions and fine tune. Keep a quiver of em. Deploy as necessary.
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Routine are great. Even Naturals use routines. They just don’t do it consciously or structured…but when a certain topic comes up they tell that story you’ve heard them tell a million times about a time they did something awesome related to that topic. And when a girl says or does a certain thing they do the thing they always do that has always gotten them a good reaction and a lay etc
The problem is guys think the words themselves are the key instead of the structure. It’s like thinking the secret to punching hard is making a fist…if you can understand the principles of “move something quickly toward something else” then you can apply the same “hit someone” routine to punching kicking elbowing swinging a bat or pipe at someone etc whatever’s convenient for you.
Even mystery said to use his routines as training wheels but to understand the structure behind WHY they work for him and customize them to yourself. He didn’t want a bunch of little Mystery’s running around. But guys are lazy so they just copied him.
“You and I would never get along, we would fight all the time” = disqualifying her (first half of it), future projection (roleplaying what life together will be like, which assumes the sale and assumes she would want to be together) and push/pull (we’d be together (pull), BUT we would fight (push))
So if you said “Sorry you’re too sweet for me. I would break your heart.” the words are 100% different but the underlying structure is exactly the same.
“You’re wasting your time. I’m into blondes, not brunettes. I would wake up tomorrow and be like “oh god what have I done how drunk was I”” = same structure
“God, I hate that I’m so attracted to you…I can tell you’re the type of girl that’s going to make me miserable. And I’m going to think to myself “ya, but that was WORTH it.” I can’t talk to you, you’re trouble for me.” = verbose but same structure
“(as you catch her glancing at you) Nope. Trust me.” = laconic but the same structure (just a lot more subtly implied, the “trust me” SAYS “it would end badly” which is future projection and push/pull still)
“Go bug someone else. I don’t drink enough to put up with your shit.” = asshole version but again it follows the same structure disqualifying, implying a future together and roleplaying what that would look like (you having to drink and her annoying you) and push/pull (because you’re implying a future together at all but pushing her away)
I say if you’re socially awkward as fuck, use routines. When you get your basic social skills handled look deeper at the routines and why they work and construct your own. When you get good you’ll be able to improvise on the fly and what you improvise will naturally follow pickup concepts and you’ll be spitting out gold but you’ll still have a handful of personal routines that you use because the reality is people react in predictable ways and if you have a killer response when a girl says “sorry I have a boyfriend” the you might as well use it when that situation comes up because it amuses you and you get a good result. When you get bored of it switch it up but follow the structure that works.
I improvise a lot of what I say but I also have a lot of personalized routines that just come from socializing a lot and saying whatever’s on my mind and it turns out this story I tell about a thing that happened to me gets good reactions. What if I tweak how I tell that story slightly and ass a little more build-up here and a pause and then save this part of the story for the punchline and oh shit these girls’ heads explode when I tell this story like this. If this subject comes up I might as well drop this story in and explode their heads.
People who avoid routines out of like religious dogma style reasons have a silly view to me. Use whatever works and makes the game fun for you. It can be fun to go up and totally improvise and it can be fun to use personalized routines that you know will nail shit to the wall. A comedian can go up and improvise his set or a salesman improvise his sales call, or they can drop in their tried and tested material they know gets a good response and the act of doing that can BE self-amusing (“this is going to be hilarious I love when her head explodes lol she has no idea what’s coming lolol” VS coming from a frame of supplicating dancing monkey trying to entertain her).
Your own brain matters too. Some guys love routines some love improv. I have a buddy who runs fully routine game because having tried and true routines locked & loaded gives him confidence and a feeling of control. I prefer a lot more improv because the shit I come up with makes me lol
That all said, learn from everywhere. Learn from guys who do improvised game, learn from guys who do routines, watch RSD, read Krauser (I haven’t yet but walas description sounds good), read Mystery Method, hang with Naturals, take an improv class, sit down and analyze routines to figure out why they work, etc etc
Be like Bruce Lee: absorb what is useful, discard what is not.
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Improv – classes just think about that for a sec. Then think again about routines….
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@YaReally, Sentient, Walawala – much thanks for your feedback gents. Been riding the wave of 100% improv & the Tyler “being not doing” mindset, which has laid a solid foundation for sure though with inconsistent results, & my dogmatic ignorance in not building some routines that can make everyone’s night more fun is clearly pretty stupid. Thanks for pointing out the obvious.
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@YaReally, Junior, Culum Here’s a text exchange with that girl I met this week in the other country who’s coming to my city and vice versa.
I asked about how to ping text and Ya mentioned some ideas about routines so i’ll share my text game today with this girl. The goal is just to ping text her—play, banter, get the tingles going….have a read:
Me: sending a photo of the giant ferris wheel on the waterfront
Me: No screaming…don’t embarrass me
Her; hahahah why would I scream? qualifying herself
Me: just checking. drinks after. Taking charge…future projection
her: hmmm…ok but how long does it take? I’m mildly claustrophobic so not too fond of confined spaces
Note chick slipping into logic mode…that conflict between should I do this or will I be scared?….possibly a shit test where most guys would just say “awww come on it’s only 5 minutes, we can do something else if you want” Instead, I reply with :
Me: We’ll see. My class go-to response
Her; Be nice! Shit test—she’s digging this exchange
Me: I send a photo I got from a National Geographic site of a male lion biting a female lioness’ tail Sexualizing with mildly erotic yet innocent on the surface photo…
more banter from her and I wrap it up.
Note: the lion biting the lioness’ tail has a mildly erotic look …a girl’s hamster would immediately start wondering…is he the Lion? Is he biting me? Does he bite?
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Here’s that photo I sent her…lots of these animal ones are fun but also mildly erotic…
https://www.google.com.hk/search?hl=en&site=imghp&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=1093&bih=514&q=lion+biting+lioness+tail&oq=lion+biting+&gs_l=img.1.2.0l7j0i30j0i5i30j0i8i30.1092.3447.0.6259.12.11.0.1.1.0.130.1080.0j10.10.0….0…1ac.1.64.img..1.11.1087.qwBcXXVky24#imgrc=m9M9aG0U9Rw_sM%253A%3BgwVTFbRE1PaxoM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252F1funny.com%252Fwp-content%252Fuploads%252F2012%252F06%252Ftail-bite.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252F1funny.com%252Flion-bites-tail%252F%3B700%3B466
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@YaReally: P.S. The example that you list of the girl pushing the disabled person down steps is exactly what I mean about the obviously playful and over the top humor that I mean. I think this is a valuable distinction to make with this whole method. Playful, not neurotic.
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Do you even need rapport for any women? I see the need for comfort and tingles, but not rapport. Rapport goes to platonic friendship, right?
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“All girls love emotional roller coaster rides, but in my experience I’ve found that the “nice girls” — the ones with low N counts and stable psychology — love the emotional push and pull the most. Why? Because they get to enjoy it the least often, surrounded as they are by niceguy betas who target nicegirls under the mistaken belief that those are the girls likeliest to swoon for their Ol’ Dependable beta male routine.”
Spend some time at an LDS singles ward, and you will find that everything said here is confirmed as true. Or just ask Darryl Dawkins about why his favorite NBA town was Salt Lake City.
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Jawbone Lifts Lid on Human-Neanderthal Sex: A jawbone found in Romania more than a decade ago provides the first genetic evidence that humans and Neanderthals knocked boots in Europe before the latter disappeared between 35,000 and 40,000 years ago… http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/3303612/posts
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COMPARE: “A multiple-dispersals scenario, with earlier modern humans leaving Africa as early as 130,000 before present, can perhaps account for part of the morphological and genetic patterns that we see among modern human populations.” http://news.discovery.com/human/evolution/humans-may-have-left-africa-earlier-than-thought-140421.htm
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O.T. These two white girls failed to establish rapport and comfort with their fellow upstanding Americans:
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2015/06/shock-video-black-teen-beats-kicks-white-girl-holding-her-toddler/
Lessons:
1. Don’t be sitting when diversity be spittin’
2. Hit first.
3. Move.
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My comment was deleted I guess. I said the two biggest obstacles I was facing with women were 1) widespread apathy toward anything that is not extremely highly stimulating which I think is part of widespread internet and cell phone addiction, and 2) white knights ruining things. sometimes it isn’t even a white knight ruining things, I have been cockblocked by a married man who did it just because he felt like it.
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Frankly, I’m amused by people who simply diminish the importance of things they don’t have. This applies both to YaReally’s limiting beliefs about the benefits of looks/working out and the people who Tinder and say that looks are super important there(like you can’t apply game principles to the pictures you upload there: e.g. using preselection). And both camps use weird examples to justify it: the athletic, good looking guy with poor game or the bland profile of an ugly guy to justify it. It’s quite obvious that both matter and while game matters more than looks, if a good looking guy isn’t inept and/or autistic, you will struggle stealing his girls. I’ve been both chubby and athletic and I had random girls start talking to me, girls I just met grab my biceps and ask me what sport am I playing, walk alone with nothing in a club and talk to nobody but the bartender have girls introduce me to their girlfriends.
There are multiple benefits to being athletic. You’re better in bed, you get more IOIs so you don’t waste as much time talking to girls who you have to put in more work to make interested, you will have it far easier with online dating, men will be less willing to try to poach your girls etc.
What’s hilarious about the ‘only looks matter to girls’ type is that they’re not even putting their money where their mouths are: they’re not the people I find in the gym. I suppose there’s an equivalent of idiot with no game that touts the benefits of game too. I think the most effective is to work on both and not get super great at one of them and lack in the other department.
Oh, the only reason why you get so many guys that look good there and have awful game is because they are afraid of other people and use working out as a way to get around it and get girls. This doesn’t work unless working out also changes your attitude. But someone who started working out early and has good experiences too will have at least decent game naturally. If a good looking guy knows basic game, he will already have talked to a few girls that IOIed him and will be preselected like you and then he will just agree and amplify with what you tell girls to make you seem preposterous or use amused mastery and treat your ugly, but charismatic ass as some interesting thing, like the animals at the zoo doing tricks. I’m pretty sure you can learn how to deal with this, but the time you will spend dealing with it AND the time you will spend learning how to deal with it could be easily used to lift some weights. If you buy two stupid dumbbells and lift them at home for an hour you will look better than 90-95% of American men. lol. If you know basic shit about nutrition, by hauling a couple of dumbbells about, you can lose 50-60lbs in 6-9 months and in a year or a year and a bit of being consistent you will be sinewy and girls will feel that when you hug them. I forgot to mention, girls LOVED to hug me because of being athletic. Can’t say I minded having 4-5 girls press their tits against me each time I went to school. Just don’t be that loser who was a loser his whole life and now is a loser in good shape(aka guy who is out of shape and thinks looks are everything girls want that started to workout).
“All girls love emotional roller coaster rides, but in my experience I’ve found that the “nice girls” — the ones with low N counts and stable psychology — love the emotional push and pull the most.”
I don’t have a huge sample, but based on my experience, smart girls love it more than stupider girls too. And the benefits are that the replies you get from smart girls aren’t as stupid as the ones you used in your reply to walawala.
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Big one so I can link to this in the future when this topic comes up like it always fucking does lol:
@PWN
“This applies both to YaReally’s limiting beliefs about the benefits of looks/working out”
I think they’re good things to do, but at the end of the day they have no real significant impact on getting the girl unless you have zero competition. I’ve said a million times if a girl has nothing else to go by except looks, then ya, she’ll pick the good-looking guy (this is why being good-looking on Tinder helps, all she has to go by is the pic, she’s not even reading your little blurb below and very few guys orchestrate Tinder pics with social proof etc and even if they do that the girl isn’t actually experiencing direct emotional impact from them when she’s swiping profiles on her lunch break at work).
“if a good looking guy isn’t inept and/or autistic, you will struggle stealing his girls”
Nope. If a good looking guy isn’t inept and/or autistic he’ll have an easier time getting girls as long as 1) he doesn’t care which ones he gets and 2) no one interferes. And that can work out fine, tons of good-looking dudes are banging hot girls from their social circles that give them eyes from across the room at a party and everyone steps back and lets him have the girl because they think “well the good-looking guy SHOULD get her, I don’t deserve her I wouldn’t stand a chance”.
“I’ve been both chubby and athletic and I had random girls start talking to me, girls I just met grab my biceps and ask me what sport am I playing, walk alone with nothing in a club and talk to nobody but the bartender have girls introduce me to their girlfriends.”
Like I said, as long as no one more interesting than you is around, ya you’ll do fine lol But they will ignore you when someone who makes more of an emotional impact shows up. Maybe that’ll never happen, and that’s totally fine. But if you’re not a guy who lucked out being good-looking tall etc., you can more than make up for it with game and take girls off the guys who are just good-looking dudes walking around being normal dudes.
“There are multiple benefits to being athletic.”
If you have time to dedicate to athletics AND sarging, great, do both. But most people have limited time and can only focus on a few areas in life outside of their daily grind at work. If you can only choose one, make sarging higher priority than working out.
Every hour you spend in the gym is a lay, instadate, 2 deep sets, 10 average sets, 20 short sets, etc. you could have run and gained experience calibrating your game and learning to escalate and hold your frame and tease a hot girl staring you down and practice telling interesting stories and learning to make those stories more captivating and learn to handle AMOGs and run a chick through a range of emotions.
The better you get the less you have to practice because you internalize it all. I can go out once every week or two right now and do fine because I have a lot of consistency with my skillset from the years I worked at it. I can see a chick I want and there’s a very solid chance that I’m going to get her, obstacles or no, because I know what I’m doing and I know what to expect and I know how to guide the interaction forward toward my goal.
So you have a choice: focus on getting jacked in your 20s, then try to learn game in your late 20s or early 30s when it’s more awkward to be “the old guy at the bar” and your friends are married and settling down and you have to either befriend 21yo’s who want to go out all the time and you no longer live on campus or anything you just work in some cubicle where the one hot girl at work is married and you can try to learn game THAT way because you focused on the gym in your early 20s instead.
OR you can focus on learning game while you’re on campus SURROUNDED by hot girls all day and night, there’s dorm parties and shit, your friends all go out every weekend, you have access to tons of poon to learn on, you feel like you belong in the bar in terms of age range, etc. and then when you’ve got that skillset handled and racked up a shitload of experience slaying poon, focus on getting in shape in your late 20s early 30s when you have your boring cubicle job and your buddies are all settling down, because the bar isn’t scary for you to go out solo because you’ve learned how to befriend 21yo’s and enjoy their energy and they think you’re cool ’cause they see you get girls and you can teach them some game or you can go to a bar alone and build your social circles because you focused on learning how to do that in your 20s.
I’m using extreme examples because like I say, it’s better to do both at the same time if you can with more of an emphasis on sarging than exercise, but how many guys ACTUALLY do both? And how many guys finish work, go to the gym, don’t talk to anyone, then go home and watch Game of Thrones or play xbox till it’s time to sleep and hide behind the excuse of “if I just get big biceps girls will approach ME!!!” instead of going out.
I deal with reality, not ideals. And the reality is there’s an entire group of Forever Alone’ers over at the MISC who are better looking than any of us will ever be and can’t get laid and don’t go out and are waiting for the advice of “just be athletic then girls will feel your bicep and introduce you to their hot bartender girlfriends” to hopefully work out for them.
“You’re better in bed,”
This is basically the only reason I’ve started exercising lol Gotta keep up in bed with the 21yo chicks now that I’m old.
“you get more IOIs so you don’t waste as much time talking to girls who you have to put in more work to make interested,”
Like I said, you don’t get selection. You get the girls that choose you. And that’s fine, some of them will be hot, but most of them will be average and most guys will still shit bricks when they see their personal 10 with a couple guy/girlfriends around her and not approach her, then go home with the average girl who “gave them more IOIs” and rationalize it as “I didn’t want to waste my time putting in more work, I didn’t want her ANYWAY” as they picture her in their head while they bang the aggressive 6 that took them home at last call.
“you will have it far easier with online dating,”
This is true. No disagreement here. But if anyone says they’re banging 9s and 10s off OKCupid, I’m calling bullshit lol The 1-7s are on dating sites, with the occasional 8. Except Tinder, Tinder was fucking great when it was new, but now the fatties and uggos have heard they can get laid on there so it’s full of garbage lol Hit the bar or daygame oldschool style for better girls.
“men will be less willing to try to poach your girls etc.”
This is also true. But the guy never having to experience a guy trying to take his girl is exactly why I say these guys can get laid as long as no one interferes. The hardest guys for me to take girls off are the runty guys because for them to even be WITH a hot girl they usually have some kind of game/alpha qualities to them. The good-looking dude who’s never competed for a girl before is a cakewalk.
And again, maybe no one with game will ever approach his girl. That’s fine, the bicep thing worked out super for him in that case. Hell it’s probably rare that someone with game is going to approach his girl. But if someone does, he’s gonna lose his girl.
“I think the most effective is to work on both and not get super great at one of them and lack in the other department.”
We don’t really disagree here, people just misrepresent my position (which is ironic given the OP’s topic lol). The only real difference between us is that I would say focus like 70/30 on sarging VS working out instead of 50/50 (just maintain being not a 300lbs fatass that lasts 10 seconds in bed) and I’m taking into account the reality that people have limited time. Very few dudes are going to work a 9-5 job, then hit the gym for an hour, then shower up and go sarge for 6 hours…a guy who CAN do that is going to do great. But that’s just not how it plays out in reality for most guys. Most guys either just hit the gym or they hit the gym and then sarge for 1 hour or drunkenly sarge on the weekends where they aren’t actually improving their game.
Also I think guys should hyperfocus on game, consume it and sarge 24/7 as much as possible for a year when they start out. Get a good head start, THEN tone it back and look for that 70/30 balance of sarging/exercise, etc. Get that fuckin foothold.
“Oh, the only reason why you get so many guys that look good there and have awful game is because they are afraid of other people and use working out as a way to get around it and get girls.”
I agree. Part of why I stress sarging so much is that no one NEEDS anyone to stress “go hide at the gym and hope having biceps will let you passively get girls so you don’t have to learn to socialize and risk social judgement and rejection”. That’s the default fucking message thrown at guys from every fucking angle because most of society is too chickenshit to cold approach or doesn’t think game works.
So if you say “you should workout and sarge” a guy hears “the more I workout the less I have to sarge! And this other guy said girls feel his biceps and he doesn’t even have to game them!!!! GYM TIME BABY!!!” Then they hit 30 and still don’t have the girl they want and they don’t have the social circles and ease of access to hot 21yo’s they had in college and now instead of a small hill to climb they have Mt Everest because they have to sarge bars at 30 just learning the ropes.
“But someone who started working out early and has good experiences too will have at least decent game naturally.”
I disagree lol Lifting weights doesn’t give you game. It’ll give you a few boosts here and there like confidence and shit but every night out at any nightclub anywhere you can see a dozen good-looking guys standing around the club with their drink up at their chest scared shitless to talk to girls and dropping the ball on girls that want to fuck them…and if you talk to those guys they’ll BE cool guys, lots of alpha dudes and shit, but that doesn’t translate by default into being able to mack girls. This isn’t me blowing smoke up everyone’s ass telling magical stories to hype up my position…this is OUT THERE every single weekend! Go to nightclubs for a few months and LOOK for these guys. Watch them, talk to them, they’re all over the fucking venue lol
“If a good looking guy knows basic game, he will already have talked to a few girls that IOIed him and will be preselected like you and then he will just agree and amplify with what you tell girls to make you seem preposterous or use amused mastery and treat your ugly, but charismatic ass as some interesting thing, like the animals at the zoo doing tricks.”
This happens basically never lol What happens most of the time is the guy will have some preselection and then freeze up when anyone enters the set. He’ll be polite and let the other guy talk and he’ll fall into one of a dozen traps that involve qualifying himself. The bar isn’t full of a bunch of James Bond badasses, it’s full of chodes who lift weights instead of talk to girls.
“I’m pretty sure you can learn how to deal with this”
Ya it’s easy, you just calibrate if the guy agrees & amplifies then you try a different tool. But you rarely have to because no guy does. They just freeze like deer in the headlights. They THINK they’ll do something, they’ll talk online about what a badass they are and how they would just dismiss you lian amusing zoo animal, but in real life when push comes to shove and they’re confronted out of the blue by a guy with game in-set, they choke hard. Because no one enters their set so why WOULD they be good at dealing with that? They’ve never had to do it.
It’s like saying oh I’ve never been in a fight before but if Mike Tyson came at me I would just punch him in the jaw and take him out for sure. Any REAL alpha would. No, if Tyson comes at you you will curl up into a ball and shriek like a girl just like everyone else lol If some drunk slob comes at you then ya you might knock him out. And if you’ve been sparring non-stop your whole life with big guys you MIGHT keep your cool as Tyson swings.
But you just admitted earlier that if you’re good-looking less guys come into your set, so why would you be able to take down Tyson when you rarely spar? It doesn’t make sense and that delusional belief that “oh man if the chips are down, I would somehow overcome the obstacle even tho I’ve never had to before I just know I would” is a big part of why it’s easy to take over the set and why they freeze up the same way the guy who took karate when he was 8 years old freezes up when shit really hits the fan.
“I forgot to mention, girls LOVED to hug me because of being athletic.”
Girls love to hug me because my belly is cuddly. Girls are attracted to whatever you’re confident about.
“Can’t say I minded having 4-5 girls press their tits against me each time I went to school.”
Again, as long as there’s no one more interesting around and you don’t care which girls you get yup, you’ll do fine. But when you leave school, if you haven’t learned to socialize and create social circles because you spent your time lifting weights and playing Warcraft, you aren’t going to be around girls who press their tits against you.
“Just don’t be that loser who was a loser his whole life and now is a loser in good shape(aka guy who is out of shape and thinks looks are everything girls want that started to workout).”
Agreed. Lift for yourself and your own health, not to impress girls and not as a cheat code that you think will get them.
The problem is when you say girls will come up pressing their tits against you for working out: what do you think a guy who’s scared to go out and socialize is going to take from that? He’s going to think “YES!!! Cheat code!! Now I don’t have to go out and socialize I can just lift and I’ll have girls pressing their tits against me!!!!!” Then when it doesn’t happen they get disillusioned.
Because it’s the same shit the rest of society tells them. Just get the right car, just get the good job, just get in shape, and girls will just FALL FROM THE SKY onto your dick. No one ever says “even if you do all that, you’ll have to learn how to talk to them and be cool and flirt and escalate”. So they get all that stuff and then girls still give no fucks about them and they can’t comprehend what’s going on because they followed the plan. They’re doing the things society told them would get them girls and it’s not working out.
And that’s how you end up with the Forever Alone’ers, and (not to equate the two at all lol) the Elliot Rodgers, the George Sodinis, and this racist kid who shot up the church because the chick he liked fucked a black guy. Sodini is the best example because Rodgers and the church kid are skinny little dudes, but Sodini has a video up where he’s just touring his house showing his nice providery house, how he keeps it nice and clean, he’s in shape, he’s got a decent job where he makes decent money, he’s got all the material things and the looks to do decent, but somehow he still goes 20 years without getting laid until he finally snaps and shoots a bunch of chicks at his gym.
Sarging and learning to build social circles and approach and charm strangers is an important thing. You don’t learn that shit lifting dumbbells. I know because I’ve hung out with a ton of those guys, half my wings have been better looking Naturals compared to me (they like me because I can keep up with and out-do them despite not having their advantages so it’s a curious thing to them but I bring value to the group because of it).
I’ve met literally ONE that has legit killer game AND good looks etc. And he was poor as fuck because all he did was fuck girls and workout lol The rich good-looking jacked dude with game is a myth. Unless you consider “not being socially retarded and having a few steps above normal random beta guys who have anti-game” to be “having game” then ya, there’s lots of that lol But that doesn’t get you much.
I look at it like if at the end of the day, for either of us to get that 10 in a mixed set (with guys who are “athletic” themselves since hot girls social circles are full of hot guys (with no game, or they’d be fucking her)) with the jacked bartender flirting with her that we want instead of the easy 7 who’s giving us the eye, we both have to go up and get her attention and pro-actively approach and express ourselves and create an emotional impact?
Then hey, I’m gonna focus my time on learning how to do THAT really fucking well lol In my 30s I can lift some dumbbells.
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YaReally, I think that a key idea is to learn to express yourself playfully even if you’re analyzing. Now how the h311 did that load of sperg come out of my piehole?
A chick asked me for a d1ck pick on ThePrivateMan, so I posted a pic of Richard Nixon. She laughed. I had been giving her a very spergy hard time up until them. She eventually wrote that she would find me, get me drunk on whiskey, then tattoo “Eat, Pray, Love” on my butt.
I find that a little bit of playfulness goes a long way, especially when it catches a broad off-guard.
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@YaReally
Really appreciate you putting up your views on the looks / muscles thing. You just cannot overstate this stuff enough. Even for guys like me who have actively been affirming every day to myself that my looks shouldn’t stop me from getting the women & social circle I want (which I am slowly building thanks largely to your advice, albeit while not taking as much action as I should be) the social conditioning is SO strong it’s as if you need to be reading this stuff twice a day, every day… or better yet, taking twice as much action. That was the first I had read of the Sodini guy, watching his videos was invaluable, if 100% bone chilling – mandatory viewing for any guy still buying into the provider mindset. You can see the guy is clearly just trying to find a fucking skerrick of intimate connection with a woman, that’s all. So sad to see what eventuated.
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@YaReally “”tons of good-looking dudes are banging hot girls from their social circles that give them eyes from across the room at a party and everyone steps back and lets him have the girl because they think “well the good-looking guy SHOULD get her, I don’t deserve her I wouldn’t stand a chance”.
Pure gold as an insight. This is why the sense of ‘entitlement’ needs to be developed as part of your own inner game or you’ve lost. How many girls did I just give up on rationalizing that “well, she’s talking to THAT guy so I’ll just let it go, wait my turn etc etc.
I don’t that anymore, if I see a girl I like, get an IOI of some kind, I move. If the interaction doesn’t go anyway, ok. But in most cases it does move ahead, I get a number, then it’s game on.
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YaReally – quick text game question. I have a few girls on text game from online that I haven’t met yet (travel/work logistics for both of us mean we may not meet for weeks). But there is good chemistry over text.
I remember your advice from a few months ago about putting girls I’ve already met into a ping-text rotation every week or two, if I won’t go back to their city for a while. How about girls who I’ve NOT met yet at all? Same advice? Also, is it worth getting sexual with these girl and getting them horny over text? Or do I just risk dissipating the sexual energy before meeting?
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@Culum
My rule for girls you haven’t banged yet is if you’re about to pass thru her city, do more comfort than sex. If you’re not going to be around for a while, do sex. The idea being to get both comfort and sexual shit in there but with the comfort acting as a buffer between the sex and meeting up with you, to avoid triggering ASD.
You CAN just do sex and get her to meet up all horny just to fuck, but I’ve found that it’s lower consistency because you’re asking the girl to actively go against her ASD. It can be DONE, I went thru a phase where I was ignoring comfort and just pushing the sex side of things to see what would happen, but I got a lot more “i’ll flirt and sext, but chicken out when it comes time to meet up for real because you don’t view me as special you just view me as a hole to stick your dick in”
Every girl wants to feel a LITTLE special.
And I ramp up my txting as my pass thru her city approaches. So the week before I pass thru we’ll be doing a lot more txting than if I won’t be back for a year.
If I’ve already banged her then it’s fine to go sexual as my pass thru approaches cause we’ve presumably already had comfort when we had sex before (even if I do my comfort afterward while she’s cuddled up to me) and she shouldn’t be getting ASD if you’ve already banged unless you made her feel unspecial after it and then she might need to go out for a drink first while you rebuild comfort and show her you don’t just want her for sex.
But I get comfort when we first bang so I escalate sexually over txt all week txting dirty descriptions of what I’m going to do to her and sometimes I’ll tell her she’s not allowed to touch herself till I get there etc etc to help build the sexual anticipation of my arrival.
This is really variable cause there’s a lot of factors and with txting you’re adding a bunch of extra dice rolls compared to one on one in person because who knows where she is or what her mood is when she’s txting etc so you can make other methods work but for me I found this approach had the highest consistency.
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@YaReally follow up to Culum’s question on “comfort” texting. I met a hot girl at a party. She’s coming to my city for a holiday and just before that I’m going to her city for work. I’ll land on a Sunday, we’ve made tentative plans to hang out. It’s 2 weeks away.
We had a great Day 1–quick coffee, lots of me asking her about her…teasing…kino kiss on both cheeks (it was during work hours but she did come out of the office to do this).
So how would you open? So far the sexual tension is covert—lots of IOI’s but no overt stuff. She’s agreed to everything I’ve proposed—meeting up, hanging out, coming out of the office in the middle of the afternoon for a coffee…
So to reconnect I would just show her something of the city? Or send a photo? I’m stuck here because I know what to do when we meet, I know how to meet—but the random texting to keep on her mind….any thoughts on this?
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@wala
I don’t see any reason to fuck around with sexting given her attitude and your timeframe. She’s compliant as fuck and you know how to escalate in person so there’s no real benefit to getting all sexual via text the week or two before meeting up and risking triggering ASD/flaking.
I just send them stupid meme pics and shit about my day like some weird thing I saw that related to an in-joke we have. Like maybe I gave her a nickname and then I’ll send a pic related to that nickname that’s funny or a weird coincidence etc. and just that’s it, it’s just a ping to keep me fresh in her mind till the meet-up.
Thing is because she’s so compliant you shouldn’t have to do much over this next 2 weeks. You shouldn’t need really in-depth day-long text conversations if she’s that agreeable, so no reason to overgame it with daily long conversations.
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@YaReally She’s compliant, she’s up for adventures, she came to meet me for a 30 minute coffee before my flight all dressed up and looking smoking…we had a bit of banter after that and then she was all about meeting up. I don’t think i’m misreading this.
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YaReally – thank you that’s really useful about the more sexual further away and more comfort closer in towards meeting. So I’m 3-4 weeks away from meeting this 19 year old I’m texting this week so I’ll up the sexuality for a while and go into comfort closer to meet (she is practically begging for me to go sexual – she reliably tosses out sexual innuendo when she texts me around 11pm, but till now I’ve been resisting)
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“she came to meet me for a 30 minute coffee before my flight all dressed up and looking smoking”
Ah that doesn’t matter. She probably has coffee there all the time and as for her dress that was what she was going to wear anyway. LOL
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“I’m amused by people who simply diminish the importance of things they don’t have.”
like a quality girl.
from 26 august 08
“A high quality girl is good for standing by, sticking with, supporting always, loving fully, defending righteously, and if the timing is right, embracing for life to the exclusion of all others. She is the type of girl who can enthrall you with her words alone. She can make you smile over the phone. She can be far away but feel near. She is often discovered in the unlikeliest places, and her magic is the energy that animates her pretty face, rather than the other way around.”
“Low quality girls are good for fucking, a few laughs, some funny digicam pics, and that’s it. Spare your hard-earned manly capital — your time, your resources, your protection, your commitment, your LOVE — for those few quality girls you might meet if you’re lucky. And speaking as a man who has seen, heard and experienced enough to turn the most naive optimist into a stone cold cynic, if you do meet a girl like that, you would be a fool to pass her up. Her kind is going extinct.”
CH was very different before ya showed up.
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huge reply in mod. I don’t disagree with parts of what you’re saying, it’s just that I like to point out the realities of what these guys can ACTUALLY expect from hitting the gym:
These guys aren’t going to have 4-5 girls rubbing their tits all over them and hot bartenders introducing them to their girlfriends by lifting some fucking dumbbells.
The biggest problem with the “just hit the gym” mindset is that guys don’t give a shit about these nerdy dudes. They’re picturing some relatively cool guy and saying “bro you don’t need that game shit, wtf, just BE COOL man, hit the gym you’ll get tits all over you”.
No one cares about these guys. People look at these guys and go “well c’mon, they’re losers, that’s just how it is” and expect these guys to just go through 60 years of not getting pussy and not seeing what it’s like for a girl to look at them like they have any kind of value. They don’t care what happens to these guys at 30 or 40. These guys don’t exist, these guys hopefully just run our internet and find some ugly 4 to settle with who divorce rapes them and hopefully they don’t get frustrated enough to go on a killing spree after 20+ years of involuntary celibacy.
Game can help THESE guys. More than lifting weights.
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Ya, lifting weights and losing weight will help with the Inner Frame. Losing 50 lbs.? H311 ya, shows passion and strength of mind! Being able to lift heavier weights? Shows a man is making muscle! Girls like to squeeze a man’s biceps. Happens to me some when dancing after losing 50 lbs. and I’m not that built. Toning up and being able to move like a cat (dancing or walking) helps the Inner Frame.
Girls ask me to dance a lot. At first, that helped my Inner Frame. Also hits preselection. Learning to dance well is a social accomplishment and will help the Inner Frame.
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“Happens to me some when dancing after losing 50 lbs.”
Do you think any of those guys is going out to bars and dancing? Do you think any of those guys has even been INSIDE a bar let alone gone on a dance floor with girls watching them to dance it up?
They will be 50lbs less but sitting in their CPU chair still terrified to talk to girls. They won’t even get in situations where girls are able to feel their biceps up because they fundamentally don’t know how to feel comfortable in a social environment except for a LAN party with their close buddies.
I get the impression that people don’t realize how socially awkward massive hordes of men in society are. Attend a nerd convention like Comicon sometime and look at what the guys who are going to look for help talking to girls are like.
Ya a guy who’s already heading out to bars and dancing with girls is going to benefit from lifting some weights (but not as much as learning game), but the “go lift and your internal core will be stronger” results in a bunch of nerds playing Warcraft with strong internal cores before they go home to jack off to porn and spend another night alone and unloved. A girl who touches their bicep turns them into blushing stuttering mess and they end up friendzoned with oneitis at BEST. That doesn’t help them.
Nobody has any answers for how to get these dudes laid because they see them and think it’s too big a task to fix them. But learning game (aka how to be confident in social situations so that they can actually go out into social situations and do well) can fix them.
Half of CH’s traffic is guys like these guys lurking and reading hoping someday they can get a girl to love them. “Lift weights” helps them as much as “just be yourself”. It’s empty platitude nonsense said by guys who haven’t hung around guys like this and don’t get that they’re doing the same shit as a Natural saying “just be cool, man”. If they knew how to do that they wouldn’t be in the situ they’re in lol
I know cause my buddies and I were these guys. Lifting wouldn’t have done shit for me when I didn’t understand how to fundamentally interact with women and social groups. We were rolling out to the bar on a Saturday night, we didn’t have hot girls hanging out with us who would suddenly start telling us how hot we look as we got jacked.
Game can take guys like that and get them LAID and get them the relationships they want with the girls they dream about.
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*We WEREN’T rolling out to the bar on a Saturday night
Important spelling correction lol
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I started dancing in a dance studio. (Women generally accepted my requests to dance since they were there to dance.) Then I went to bars. (A lot more rejections than at a dance studio, but rejections have never been a problem for me.) This is how it can work–even for nerdy men. Nerdy men still need to learn how to be playful, carry on a convo, etc. Dance won’t substitute for that.
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I see nerdy guys in dance studios all the time. Sure, some of them are socially awkward, but they do improve over time, generally. They develop convo skills and chat with women at studio parties. I see some going to bars eventually. And they do flirt some. Sure, they can benefit from Game and learning to read women, etc. Learning to dance is a time-tested avenue for developing confidence with women and social skills. Dancing itself is a social skill.
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Back when I was 15 and dropping a few panties, I wasn’t a cool dude. I was nerdy. 5’4″ and thin. Better than avg. looks. I couldn’t dance well. Not great at convo or funny. But I wasn’t afraid to approach girls at my boarding school dances and that caused me to stand out.
The key is to have the balls to approach women. Then to have the balls to isolate them, take their hands, etc. That all takes Inner Frame, not social skills. Start with the Inner Frame and add the rest.
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Oh, I realized that you need more info about time. I started dancing in a dance studio about two years ago. It has been several decades since I was in high school.
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what else can be said on the merit of game
Today, I met guy in the gym, walking pack of depression coming from the hellfires of incel torment.. being 35yo, when asked about girls by other guy – he almost wept
this man was 6’4″. normal looking, footlong d1ck..but was sentenced to decades of the dry spell abyss cruise. The aura he conveyed was literally mummifying the ginas in the perimeter
Now let me introduce the case no 2… 5’4″ (!) guy, childish statue – yet, exactly what you would describe as cool, laidback, charismatic. Could dance very well. Ofc got plethora of rejections failing the physical preselection. But what counts – lots of bangs with 8s as well
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@YaReally
i’ll weigh in on this, since it hits VERY close to home…lol
“I get the impression that people don’t realize how socially awkward massive hordes of men in society are. ”
this is MORE than true…most people really don’t get the social ostracization guys like this feel…we just don’t fit in…game can MORE than help that though…ask me how i know…lol…BUT it takes effort by the individual man to make it happen…and it’s well outside your comfort zone. that’s why i get wound up when the naysayers pipe in ‘you don’t need that game, shit…it doesn’t work…just lift, bro…and be cool…’…lol…
i was like these guys in the photos (we actually had a group in the dorm we called ‘the losers club’…), except for one thing…i actually DID lift weights (a lot of the ‘losers’ did, actually)…AND i played sports…i was actually quite good…athletic scholarship to big 10 school before i ripped up my knee and couldn’t play anymore…didn’t matter…a cute girl (or any social situ really) and i was staring at the tops of my shoes, trying to disappear into the background…if i had had even just a little game, i would have cleaned up…lol…
i think the best thing game has to offer these men is as a map of how to get where they want to go, but don’t have ANY idea on how/where to start the journey…
one of the incidents that sticks in my head about this whole subject was after college. i had just met a girl (hb6 on a good day, and we met where i had demonstrated mastery of a subject, situ alpha = she basically picked me up…) and had stayed over. she lived in a room at a house with about 4 other people and her roommate’s door opened and this hb8+ (tall blonde model type…) comes out of the guy’s room. he was about 5 foot even and weighed about 200…he looked like one of the trolls in Frozen…lol…he had met her at a club (which i had never even thought about even going into…) and gamed her home. i remember thinking ‘wow, this is some really strange shit…how did THAT happen…he’s not even athletic…’ (now, i know better…lol)
good luck!
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@asd
“But I wasn’t afraid to approach girls at my boarding school dances and that caused me to stand out.”
That’s kind of my point. You had the balls to go join a dance studio where you might embarrass yourself and to approach girls at the dances. Like that’s awesome, I’m glad you had a head start.
“The key is to have the balls to approach women.”
That’s kind of my point. What kind of advice is that? (no offense because I know it comes with good intentions) If they just “had the balls to approach women” they wouldn’t need help lol “Just be cool, man” It doesn’t do anything for them.
Lifting weights might help them feel better about themselves but “feeling good about yourself” and “walking into a dance studio full of people who are good at dancing including hot girls, where everyone’s going to stare at you as you try to awkwardly shuffle around with hot girls potentially laughing at you and risking being the guy that no girls wants to dance with just like you were the last guy picked in gym class” are different things.
Julien from RSD was too scared to even ask a little old lady for the TIME on the street during the day. I was similar, a lot of guys who take up pickup are similar. Being jacked isn’t going to make a guy socially confident if he’s spent his life being scared of social situations. Experience succeeding in social situations makes a guy socially confident.
Like I say, people look at these dudes and go “oh well sure there are some guys like that, but I see nerdy guys at my gym and dance class too!!” Ya, that’s great. Now forget those guys and go back to the nerds who aren’t in your gym and dance class…how can you help THEM? What do ya got? Like, how do you get them to start asking little old ladies for the time when they’re scared to leave their computer room and clam up in social situations?
Everyone wants to help the EASY cases. “Oh, you’re a cool guy with friends who isn’t a social retard? Just lift some weights bro! Look at me I created another success story!” “Oh you’re a nerd who’s confident enough to join a dance class and put yourself outside of your comfort zone in social situations? Just lift some weights dude! BAM another success story!!”
But that shit doesn’t help the tough cases and there are a shitload of tough cases out there these days in our feminized “you’re a rapist if you even look at a girl or have sexual thoughts” culture. No one has solutions that will get their dick inside a warm hole…even if a girl dances with them or feels their bicep they won’t get her to want to fuck them because they don’t have game.
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Mario/habd
Thanks for sharing. That depressed guy at the gym is partly depressed because everyone told him if he hit the gym he’d have 4-5 girls a day rubbing their tits on him and bartenders introducing him to their hot friends and it’s not happening so what is he supposed to think? He’s doing everything “right” according to the advice he got…and he’s still failing. So in his head that must me HE is at his CORE a failure. And he has no idea how to get out of that hole because he’s doing everything the “chicks’ll feel up your bicep” guys said would get him a girlfriend.
I had a good buddy who simply wouldn’t take game advice or swallow the red pill. Dude made good money, was ripped as fuck, good-looking and SOCIAL he was out all the time tons of friends in the nightlife scene even, bouncers and shit all knew him, if you met him you’d go “this guy is cool he shouldn’t have any problem getting girls that doesn’t make sense” but he didn’t know how to get a girl who’s GIVING HIM IOIS to go from that to fucking her because he wouldn’t follow game and wanted his plan of “just get a good job and look good and make money and socialize and “it’ll happen”” to work out.
He’s in his mid-30s now, still alone, I saw him get laid maybe once a year MAX, and if you asked me “are you worried he might commit suicide someday if he can’t find a girlfriend?” I couldn’t answer “no” to that. He wants the white pickett fence and 2 kids but he’s hoping all these passive actions will help make it happen because people told him it would.
“this is MORE than true…most people really don’t get the social ostracization guys like this feel…we just don’t fit in…”
Yup. I was one of these guys too, and so were my buddies, that’s why I like to help them when other people will just toss them aside. ’cause a lot of these guys are GOOD GUYS. They’re even COOL in their little lan party social circles, when they’re super comfortable around their best buds they can be funny and cool. But put them outside of that perfect private little situation they have confidence in and they clam up and shut down and have no idea what to do and don’t know there’s anything they CAN do.
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YaReally
“He wants the white pickett fence and 2 kids but he’s hoping all these passive actions will help make it happen because people told him it would.”
i know a couple guys like this. they want the fantasy, that they’ve been told about their whole lives…total blue pills…they want the wife and kids, equal partners/friendship model relationship…but can’t even get any dates bc they are still calibrated to the ‘old’ (respectful, girls as princess) reality of girls…instead of the new ‘slutty’..er…i mean ‘liberated’ reality…unless you are willing to violate some social conventions and at least ‘talk’ about sexual topics, you’ll never get out of the ljbf zone…where these guys always get stuck…
the thing is, you can only show them the door. you can’t walk through it for them…
good luck!
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@habd
“unless you are willing to violate some social conventions and at least ‘talk’ about sexual topics, you’ll never get out of the ljbf zone…where these guys always get stuck…”
Exactly. And like I say, it’s great to go lift weights. But that’s not going to fix your fundamental reluctance to do the things that build attraction even IF girls are feeling up your biceps. “girl showing interest” does not automatically equal “you will get laid” Ask any guy standing outside a nightclub at 2am frustrated that he’s going home alone how that shit’s working out for him.
I say hyperfocus on game for a year or two in your early 20s when you’re in the PERFECT environment to do it (aka college where you have tons of girls around and plenty of peers who go out to the bar). Throw in a workout here and there to avoid becoming grotesque but focus more on game and nail that skillset down by 25-28 (sooner if you’re starting out as a decently social guy, 28 would be more for the super hard cases), then focus on getting jacked if you want.
If you show me:
1) a guy who focuses on the gym through his 20s with blue pill mindsets who’s trying to learn game at 30+ when his peers are settling down and he feels like the old guy in the bar (hell ask the 40yo’s trying to learn game how they feel having to try to learn it at that age) etc.
and 2) a guy who’s learned game through his 20s and starts focusing hardcore on the gym at 30+
My money will be on the 2nd guy every time in terms of overall life satisfaction and his memories of adventures and good times and hot girls sucking his dick.
Again, a mix of both is best, but again, most guys don’t have the free time or dedication to balance both and use the gym as an excuse to avoid walking around striking up conversations on a Tuesday night for 4 hours after their 9-5 and an hour at the gym.
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Now forget those guys and go back to the nerds who aren’t in your gym and dance class
…hence, my book about Dance Game. For nerds and non-nerds alike.
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“walking into a dance studio full of people who are good at dancing including hot girls, where everyone’s going to stare at you as you try to awkwardly shuffle around with hot girls potentially laughing at you and risking being the guy that no girls wants to dance with just like you were the last guy picked in gym class” are different things.”
You go to the beginning group lesson solo. You don’t need a partner. You don’t need to know how to dance. I’m autistic–think “motor skills deficiency”. I started with two left feet, but I got better. (I used to be a newt.) Partners rotate so you don’t even need to approach women–women dance partners show up automatically during group lessons. Yeah, at first, women will prefer to dance with better male dancers, but they will typically dance with you some. It gets better the better you dance. Top competitive women dancers enjoy dancing with me now. They ask me to dance, even.
Your point about improv classes is a bullseye for autists. Fencing, judo, and boxing would help as well towards generating confidence.
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YaReally
i agree with the basic concept of focusing on game first, but really…a couple sets of push ups and body weight squats every day when you get up…and watching your diet so you don’t gain toooo much fat doesn’t really take THAT much time…lol…so, using the gym as an excuse to not meet/approach girls is fitting…
just a point on the whole lifting thing…
the whole point of interacting with girls to get laid is to demonstrate your ‘superior genetics’ to her hind-brain…if you can do that, her hamster will be your friend and move mountains to get you laid…lol…i think even some men who understand game forget that whole point…which ultimately is a form of ‘levels/leagues’ idea…’hot girls are out of your league if you’re fat, man…gotta hit the gym and lift, bro…so, you can deserve her…’ = limiting belief…
all being fat/out of shape/not ‘jacked’ is, is a form of peacocking. instead of a fuzzy hat, you’ve got an extra 30+ pounds and no muscle tone…lol…so, when you can interact with the girl and get a reaction out of her, you can DHV away your ‘non-lifting’…you just need some game…
even if you are 350+ pounds…just more peacocking, so your game has to be tighter…lol…
good luck!
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You start with ballroom dance classes, where old ladies are. Waltz, Tango, Foxtrot, Rumba, ChaCha, and East Coast Swing. The old ladies (50s & 60s) will chat you up and help you develop your convo skills and make you more comfortable talking to and touching (gasp!) women. Your dance skills also will develop. Then you learn west coast swing, salsa, and country two-step, which can get you dancing with hotties. By this time you’re used to approaching women to ask them to dance. You have a reliable opener: “Wanna dance?” I’ve seen hotties in group lessons for all three dances. I’ve danced country two-step with a lot of hotties. I’m still fairly new to salsa.
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Mario, HABD, YaReally et al
Me too. I was socially okay (barely – I fluked into choosing a non-geeky major which forced me to develop some very basic skills – if I’d followed my initial plans I would have been Mr LAN party for sure) but still utterly clueless and zero confidence.
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First date: aged 20 (fluke situational alpha/social proof situation – she was repulsed pretty quickly – not even a kiss)
First kiss: 23 (literally almost pleaded for it in a pity date/LJBF situation)
First sex: 24 (complete fools mate where a MILF decided she wanted to do me)
Mystery Method seminar/The Game: 25/26 – First SNL and first relationship (5 years) soon after and then into being “normal”
Now, mid 30s – well above average and continuing to develop. But it’s a long process.
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yareally- I just got a job offer to go work in a lab that is 100% male with guys who look like the ones in the pictures but much more depressed, their faces sag down. I have been around people like this for a while now, it started when I went off to uni and where people sort themselves based on what they study. These guys can be fun actually, but there is a harsh reality behind it all. I would say that in all likelihood, the guys in the picture, and the ones at this new job I am talking about, will all die alone, single, without children, and possibly never having been with a woman. Women haven’t changed, we just don’t have support structures for men anymore. I have a question to ask you but this thread is too deep, I will wait until the future.
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Super story Culum. That’s a hard background and you are a testimate to what game can do – change lives and save lives.
It’s all relative – I felt like a failure because I was a virgin until 19. No one wants to feel like a failure and with a little effort and understanding you don’t have to.
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Martin. What the fuck man? No support structures for men? Seriously dude this blog is proof of the opposite… Here you have near real time advice on tap from pro level guys… All you guys need to do. Is post in good faith and learn. Guys area always giving back with nothing in it for them other than helping as they have been helped.
You’re loss if you don’t take advantage.
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sentient, heh, i meant it more that in the past, before people tiptoed around women’s feelings, having to be totally self reliant was not required of us, thankfully these blogs have sprung up. there was a post a few back about how people used to meet each other and if you look, family was the most common way in the distant past. Both of my grandparents had arranged/semi arranged marriages at young ages. I suspect people then didn’t have to go out to bars and learn game for example, people just looked after each other like that. so now we go on blogs and learn game.
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Thanks Sentient. It’s been a great ride, especially the last 3 years when I’ve gone from “normal” to “above average”. I love the process as much as the actual sex..like most of us I wish I started earlier (I actually learnt about Game pre-Neil Strauss, when I was still a virgin around 2003 – accidentally stumbled on some underground newsgroups and read stuff – but it was much less structured and harder to follow back then and I never got into it and practiced properly – not till I took my MM seminar years later – and then tapped out for years in an LTR as soon as I started seeing results)
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YaReally et al
i’ve been thinking about this some more…(can you tell it’s an important topic for me?…lol)
“But that shit doesn’t help the tough cases and there are a shitload of tough cases out there these days in our feminized “you’re a rapist if you even look at a girl or have sexual thoughts” culture. ”
i think this is a key point…guys like these are usually pretty smart and can model out predicted outcomes. What’s going to happen to them when they do actually approach a girl?…either she’ll not be interested or she will…
if not = shit test…if she is = shit test…to these guys it looks the same (bc it actually is tbh…lol)…BUT i only know that (and what to do about it) bc of game…
that initial shit test is always going to be there. from ANY girl (even a nb2…). some girls might test harder, but it’s always going to start with a test of some type. it HAS to be that way bc of female repro strategies (but that again is direct game knowledge…). so, any of those tough cases are going to face a shit test right off the bat…which they know they are not ready to handle bc it just looks like the girl being a bitch to them… and they are smart enough to have seen this same dynamic play out irl before with different people. they are smart enough intellectually to know that if they approach a girl ‘for sex,’ they will get the full weight of the FI shaming mechanism dropped on their heads…
now, bc of game, i know that i can spin that shit into some pretty hot attraction cues…BUT it wasn’t also like that…without game, the natural consequence of that shit test is me ending up in jail on charges or being expelled from school…bye, bye career/future… it’s WAY easier to be an incel…and i don’t say that lightly…
the ONLY hope for those hard cases really is game. bc game is just learning how girls ACTUALLY work as opposed to the faulty instruction manual provided by the feminized culture.
now that i think about it, that’s probably a good way to pitch it to these hard cases. what would these guys do when they find a cool product (that they naturally love) that just happens to have a faulty/absolutely backwards instruction manual?…they would start a website/blog/forum to talk about the cool product and share their stories…try out different strategies wrt the product to see what happens when you do [abc] with the product…share those experiences with others to compare notes and deconstruct the programming/manual, so they get a better, more fulfilling experience with that product…then they develop some mastery of the product and they can start to do some cool and amazing shit with the product…in a consistent way…every time…stuff others would never even believe possible bc those others are still stuck with the ‘official’ manual…and then they would help newby’s who have suddenly discover the product for themselves and have also found that the manual is wrong…then those newby’s that actually try out those new improved manual instructions repeat those same cool and amazing things with the product…rinse and repeat…
hmm, sounds vaguely familiar…lol…
good luck!
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@having a bad day
“now that i think about it, that’s probably a good way to pitch it to these hard cases. what would these guys do when they find a cool product (that they naturally love) that just happens to have a faulty/absolutely backwards instruction manual?…they would start a website/blog/forum to talk about the cool product and share their stories…try out different strategies wrt the product to see what happens when you do [abc] with the product…share those experiences with others to compare notes and deconstruct the programming/manual, so they get a better, more fulfilling experience with that product…then they develop some mastery of the product and they can start to do some cool and amazing shit with the product…in a consistent way…every time…stuff others would never even believe possible bc those others are still stuck with the ‘official’ manual…and then they would help newby’s who have suddenly discover the product for themselves and have also found that the manual is wrong…then those newby’s that actually try out those new improved manual instructions repeat those same cool and amazing things with the product…rinse and repeat…”
Yup. This is how PUA formed.
People will accept, admire, and hold up that process as brilliant when it’s any other subject. Figuring out what exercises target what muscles the best to achieve different goals/results. Figuring out what diet helps you achieve weight loss or bulking goals. Figuring out how best to fight and defend yourself by throwing guys into MMA octagons. Figuring out to most optimal efficient way to do and understand and master anything from painting to computer shit to playing a guitar to proving scientific hypotheses about the world, to building space shuttles to running a business to mastering a sport that millions of people will watch and cheer for when you win the olympics…
Society LOVES it and embrace it when it’s any of THOSE subjects.
…but when it’s “men can improve their lives and no longer be slaves/tools of society who only exist to serve others, and can get the things they want like sex and love”? BURN THAT SHIT TO THE GROUND!! MISOGYNY!! MANIPULATION!! IT DOESN’T WORK IT ONLY WORKS ON SLUTS FUCK YOU RED PILL FUZZY HAT LOSERS NO ONE NEEDS THIS SHIT JUST BE COOL MAN DONT TRY SO HARD JUST DO WHAT SOCIETY WANTS QUIT THINKING FOR YOURSELF YOURE ALL CREEPY WEIRDOS FUCK YOU YOU MISERABLE SCUMBAGS
…funny how that works. I wonder why they’re so protective of this area. It’s almost like if men swallow the red pill they’ll realize society doesn’t have their personal best interests at heart and maybe the plan we’ve been given isn’t one we should settle for.
It’s almost like men across the world waking up to this reality would create a ripple effect so earth-shattering for society that it’s the one area where they have to pull out every stop they can think of to keep men in the dark and convince us to follow the path they’ve laid out.
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replies in mod lol
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Jesus why do you bother. Pearls before swine and all that.
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It’s for the lurkers. I don’t generally expect to convince the people I’m replying to (tho I’m always open for discussion). But there are guys lurking who read that stuff and go “ya, that aligns with how I want to think about the world even though I have no real experience because I’m sitting here reading these sites instead of out approaching hot girls” and end up with stunted growth (metaphorically) because people gave them the excuse that made them feel comfortable doubling-down on their socially conditioned already inaccurate belief system.
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YaReally, I have a couple of genuine questions: how old are you (within a five year age range would be fine if you prefer) and why do you write “lol” all the time?
Like I said, genuine questions. I have been reading CH for a long time now, and admire your commitment and willingness to share, but that lol thing I just can’t understand, unless in fact you’re 17 years old. And a chick.
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@Pasquale
30s. And I do it just to bug you. Specifically YOU. Every time I type lol I think “boy this is going to drive that Pasquale guy nuts” and cackle to myself before I go crack open another bag of Doritos and chug a Mountain Dew and play Warcraft while I think of my next bunch of pickup lies to write about for eProps, and afterward I bang my blow-up doll that looks like your mom so I can post my new Field Report.
Lol
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Another gym rat telling us how it is.
Preach brother!
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@ya.. what advice would you get some someone already in their 30’s?
I just turned 32, not a hard case but def not a natural
Every where i look my friends are not on the side of life I want to be, i.e. settling with 6’s, dating married women, etc. I’m riding the red pill solo so I guess that means I’ve got the hard road to work though.
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@ya and what would you tell someone who is already in his 30’s.
I’m not a hard case, but I’m no rico suave. I’ did really well in
my mid-late 20’s but I had a bad accident mountain biking and smashed
my face in the earth = scars = depression = 2nd guessing my “attractiveness”.
I’m assuming you will say the only way to fix it is get out there and approach right? I find myself the only single person in my social circle, everyone is settling and my roommate never goes out.
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Scars = not boring. If it somehow led to depression then id say you need structural help and it wouldn’t have mattered where they were.
A fucked up grill is an endless supply of staggering positive conversation starters.
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Just listen to what that mulatto girl had to say.
“They feel that entitled..”
Holy fuck these SJW need to be destroyed once and for all.
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That’s a girl?! Just nuke the site from orbit….DAMN!
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wow she is a college student? wowoweeweewow. He admitted he was an illegal alien. LMAO.
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A 9-10 just sat down near me. Some things became very apparent. First, most guys are scared of them. 9-10’s require a different game. A guy came over to get a seat and asked the 9-10 if it was ok to sit in a chair when me and another guy are sitting closer to the open seat. Did I mention that men are scared and captivated by 9-10’s. I put full confidence into play and check out all women but ignore her. She is flipping hair and keeps looking at me. Whenever i check out a women she looks at the women then looks at me. 9-10’s are completely different game the problem is you don’t come across them often.
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https://www.lewrockwell.com/2013/07/thomas-dilorenzo/who-caused-the-1861-65-bloodbath/
Really good article and book Review.
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setting: quiet floor, university library
what I just saw: a chubby 6, enthralled with her phone and wearing a smug self-satisfied grin while walking through the stacks followed by two puppy-like helpless guys, each trying to keep up with her better than the other.
coming in august to universities across the nation
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Me likes
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9’s and 10’s are just a different breed when it comes to gaming. Completely different.
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Amazing how scared guys are of 9’s and 10’s. Simply amazing how their hamster justifies putting them on a pedestal. Men acting goofy.
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Had a 9-10 sit next to me. Guys would ask her permission to sit 6 feet away.
Every women that walked in i would give her the up and down look. The 10 would look at the women i looked at then look at me. I never looked at 10. Her hamster wanted attention badly.
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Putin,
I had nice 8 asking for a permission to sit next at the train station
High value girls know they have to behave in order to get a nod from high status male. Since alpha male has options and can afford to sort out flawed material, better yet – will not invest in it.
Cant recall when some warpig-f3minist behaved likewise.
The relative comparison of the two can invoke the pedestalization, but thats not the case. The latter example is just off the radar, sorted out, no one even of average quality cares – butthurtedness is gender equalist 😉
already been discussed in /why uglier girls act b1tchy/
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Run, Hamster, run!
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YaReally and gang – I’m on a dating blitz this week (hence so many posts). I think my perceptions to IOIs are evolving but sometimes wonder if I’m imagining things:
1. Standing on the street waiting for a call, looking vaguely in direction of an apartment building. Pretty girl doing her makeup in the window (hadn’t even noticed her) starts smiling and waving at me. I notice and smile/wave back and she mouths something pointing at the mirror she’s holding and giggling at me.
This is an obvious IOI. Not much I could have done to follow up but a nice ego boost.
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2. On public transport. Crowded, but not totally jammed. Short HB6.5 next to me rubs her tits on my arm every time the train brakes or slows. Not hard, more like stroking me. No EC. I am not certain she was doing it deliberately (she got off at the next stop about two min later but she did it atleast a dozen times). And she could have moved a few inches away.
3. Walking down the street – lock eyes with a MILFy blonde shop assistant. Only about a second but a half-smile on her lips..
It’s like a whole world of subtleties out there
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A whole world… Windows are everywhere but they close fast… Act in the instant… Instadate and fast Kino and see what happens. Its really eye opening another world indeed. 95 percent of guys would never believe you though.
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Yes, I hear you
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YaReally HABD Sentient Wala et al
Random game thought today. I’ve been thinking about how to mentally model what “dominance” means (like when you see women say a lot in online dating profiles that they want a “dominant” guy).
You don’t want to be cliche Christian Grey but I thought of a work analogy. Like if you have your own company and the woman is an employee. You don’t treat your employees badly – you treat them well. But you tell them what to do, how to do it, and they are in your frame (your company) and you expect certain standards. In return you treat them well and pay them money (or attention in dating terms). You don’t take any BS from your employees – you’re friendly but you’re the boss.
Something like that?
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Submission is the word. American Christianity has rejected that in marriage which is why American Evangelical Christians have the worst marriages. Women are meant to submit but most churches make fun of that. Submission is alright in the work force, for laws, government, military but not for marriage in America.
Women submitting in the work force gives them the tingles and thus affairs. Men loce the fact that their attractive female employee submits better than their wife. What a country. Putin sees how the neocons with the support of Evangelical Americans have been doing.
Game may hurt our culture from a ONS perspective but from a marriage perspective it is doing more good than all the evil advice of 99% of counselors and American churches.
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One thing though… Being dominant beacause you are dominant is one thing… Being dominant because you think she wants dominance is still in her frame. Not authentic =bad sub comms
The work anlogy is good because it is authentic.
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Good tip, congruence is key.
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Don’t try for dominance, shoot for quiet and cordial with good eye contact.
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There was a submissive / slave that used to chime in from time to time when we were on the topic of feminists – and she’d talk of dominance from a woman’s perspective. From the female POV, it’s a pretty broad term – but, basically, a woman’s place is beneath a mans – and she’s subject to his will.
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YaReally and gang – one more FR from Dating Blitz Week
22 year old HB7 (from sugar daddy site but obv not a gold digger).
3 hrs together, makeout. Not satisfied – my baseline for a good date is changing.
My stories worked pretty well, easy makeout, no resistance.
But again, didn’t fully get through to her emotionally (I did to some extent – just not enough to get her really turned on or into me).
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YaReally et al
HB7/22 first date
Makeout easily but not happy. She wasn’t turned on enough/into me enough/not enough of an emotional hit
1. Logistics were bad, so I decided not to sexualize with the question game, but probably went a bit too far in opp direction and didn’t elicit enough emotion (although did some)
2. Most importantly, I really liked her. We had a great conversation – flowed effortlessly and I took my eye off the “seduction” ball a little bit. Ironically it’s easier with someone you click less with because I keep my eye on the goal and the plan..easy kiss but towards end I was a bit too eager with kissing and she started pulling away first
I sent text as I walked away “stop checking out my ass”. She replied “Not your ass I was checking out!” and then “Thank you for tonight and experience of your company” so not all bad.
Basically I know she liked me and will probably see me again, but I wasn’t her older man fantasy. It’s like I regressed back to my 2013/14 skill level and wasn’t dominant enough and not enough of a sexual threat because I got caught up in actually enjoying the conversation.
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PS – You know something’s wrong when near the end of the date, you say something and the girl says “Aww..you’re such a gentleman” (and it is pre-bang)
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@Culum
“Aww..you’re such a gentleman”…you spotted this as a shit test, right? girls that you really like do it too…lol.
“Thank you for tonight and experience of your company”…one step closer to ljbf zone…you’re in the hole…and not in a good way…lol…you can still probably pull it back around at your next meet, but it’s going to be harder. although it sounds like you did sexualize some of your interaction, so not a complete negative impression.
just a note on sexualizing…you still need to sexualize the conversation with flirty sexual teasing, even if logistics are bad, (and ESPECIALLY if you really like the girl…lol) bc you need to STAY out of ljbf zone. (it’s part of that first impression component…) (wala does a good job at this) you just don’t escalated kino bc then you trigger ASD next time.
talking on the date about sexual topics doesn’t usually trigger ASD next time bc girls talk/flirt/emotionally vibe all the time. and if YOU decide not to pursue kino escalation (includes kissing) = you are setting the frame = still alpha (especially if you haven’t let her ‘win’ you yet…lol)…
girls don’t usually get/let the kino happen, so that’s more of a threat that you are actually beta (if you didn’t close her at that time)…bc her hindbrain KNOWS that a ‘real alpha’ would have thrown her down in the bathroom to close after escalating kino, so if you escalated kino and didn’t…well…you have a beta hole to climb out of…
sexualize your texting with her and see how she responds. then, once you set the next date, stop sexualizing and up the comfort or you risk a flake…you know the drill…
good luck!
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@ habd
My gut tells me that it’s Ok to kiss a bit if logistics are bad, but not too much. Won’t trigger ASD next time, I don’t think. Otoh, the safe play is to tease her with your lips but make her wait for the kiss, sliding in and out of the kiss zone.
My 0.02.
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HABD:
“you still need to sexualize the conversation with flirty sexual teasing, even if logistics are bad, (and ESPECIALLY if you really like the girl…lol) bc you need to STAY out of ljbf zone. (it’s part of that first impression component…) (wala does a good job at this) you just don’t escalated kino bc then you trigger ASD next time.”
This. This was the mistake. Along with getting sidetracked by the “rapport sh1t test” lol.
I know for next time. You could actually see the sexual spike bleed out of her as we did more kissing..
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Just to add to the above FR and the Wala/HABD comments.
It’s been really useful – I’m starting to get a “feel” for what YaReally says about emotions/qualifying.
It’s like there are 3 kinds of girls I’m on dates with:
1. High attraction – Obvious. My standard stories work well to get emotional spikes and my escalation is smooth and results well (unless logistical issues)
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2. Medium attraction – Like this girl. Responded well to stories, easy makeout, but just not fully into me
3. Low attraction (not zero cos she still came on a date with me) – Like the girl from the comment CH featured – no emotional response.
For 1 – my stories plus escalation are fine. They are smooth.
For 2&3 – I need to do more. That’s the weak spot.
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It’s not that my stories and escalation are bad – they are good. They’re just not enough.
I do some teasing but not enough. I do virtually zero qualification and emotional pushing. It’s like I’m getting a visceral sense of what CH means by “gina tingles come from the defensive crouch” – I don’t put them in the defensive crouch.
I need to practice the qualification stuff – the way to do that is to do what Wala suggests and talk more about her, more questions game etc and talk ABOUT it the way YaReally suggests. It’s my priority for the next few first dates – let’s see how it goes.
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It’s funny actually. I had a first date with a HB7.5 19 year old 2 weeks ago. Literally same website, same bar, same seats, same stories, same kino and escalation as with this girl (but a bit less natural connection). Same easy makeout.
Superficially the dates look identical, but the 19 year old was a Type 1 above and this girl is a Type 2 and that made all the difference to their attraction responses to me. The 19 year old actually sh1t tested me MORE – but passing it spiked the attraction (thanks YaReally for the gold line about my paunch being more of me to cuddle – you should have seen her face when I passed that test)
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@Culum A few things spring to mind from my own experience which I now address off the top. I try as much as possible to inject masculinity before the date….lots of teasing, when possible ensuring the dynamic is “I’m the man, you’re the woman…” “Dress nice so we match” that sort of thing.
In the case of my OKC situations, nearly all of the ones I meet result in a bang…at the very least a make out. It’s a case of pre-seeding the date, then ramping up the escalation when we meet.
Pausing…let her talk….looking at her. The girl I met the other day…I let her talk…about her family about her love of shoes, about her travels, about whatever injecting an occasional comment or tease. Then when we left I embraced her and kissed her on both cheeks….
In the case of the 28 year old I met online and took out Sunday—lots of pre-date screening: “Besides your lips what part of your body do you most like kissed?” Jabba’s great line. By the time we met, she was clear it was a “date” and up to me to figure out a way to bang her. I got her to my place and we made out.
Then…she’s kind of…entitled. We make plans for next week and I mention “See you next week”. she sends back “I forgot”.
Me: “No worries, i’ll make other plans. I’m super busy. I have no time for time wasters or people who don’t respect my time. Fxxx off”
Her; I think there’s a misunderstanding…
She goes on to qualify herself. Now…this was a gamble but a calculated one. The girl is playing around. this is what Jabba and Krauser call “the talk” but I’ve done it in a very hard-ass way…I make it clear what we’re all about and that if she comes out, it’s because she wants to… She writes back that she’s in and it’s on. I will likely bang her.
I write you all this because it sounds like you’re doing great. But you’re getting held back by some residual beta negative thinking. Enjoy the interaction. Move it along. I highly recommend picking up Krauser’s Daygame Mastery. It has a very detailed step by step guide to all the issues you’re facing: texting, meet ups, escalation, trouble-shooting. Very clear. helped me tremendously.
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Walawala – yes I do that stuff, but just not consistently enough (or get derailed cos I like the girl like this time). I actually follow a modified version of Krauser’s date model from his blog, but you’ve recommended his book more than once so will def check it out. I seem to recall it is stupidly expensive though..
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“I got caught up in actually enjoying the conversation.”
The rapport 5h1t-test.
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Lol at theasdgamer.
Indeed.
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I don’t see the yumor, but seeking a lot of rapport causes a woman to see you as beta. Maybe calling rapport-seeking behavior a 5h1t-test is surprising and therefore yumorous?
I’m still trying to get an answer why it’s good to get rapport with a woman. Does it help with pull? It’s platonic, right? You want rapport with your male friends.
You can play the rapport/tingles game, alternating between rapport and tingles so that she is wondering if you’re hot or will be in the friend zone.
If the girl isn’t a P&D, I can see that rapport is needed for a FWB relationship.
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Ugh is all this true or is it convenient excusorship? I mean wtf how can I say that women of prior gens were better? Even if they were why be negative. I mean Como bono how does that benefit yurs truly. Versus.. What? Versus I don’t fucking know except enjoying life without caring about the outcome, including a mongrolized america, and Germany, and Austria Switzerland. To care is to be cursed. So the final solution is to not give a flying. Omg women need ego boosts. Is that not also paleolithic? But I dont hate yer blog. You provide structure, and conversation, distraction and validation along with insights and confirmation. And you suffer the slings and arrows of critics and questioners elegantly. So therefore I am.. Yours truly
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[…] The previous discussion about ego validation run rampant among Western women and how that changed reality affects the art of seduction generated some fantastically useful comments. […]
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