An anti-Game theme that occasionally surfaces in Dank Right blogs that lean towards the tradcon is the idea that learning successful methods and means to seduce women is somehow indicative of a *beep boop* sperg mentality which women hate, and that is why “Gamers” have trouble with women.
The premise is false along multiple fronts, but the major departure from reality is the belief that this tradcon caricature of PUAs, or the term I prefer, “self-improved casanovas”, is wholly alien to the natural born Naturals who “have a way with women”. This belief assumes the man who actively learns how to seduce women is an autistic reductionist, or a nerdy systematizer, who will never really get women because of his emotional limitations.
No doubt, Naturals work their magic with an intuitive gracefulness they have likely possessed since puberty, and maybe earlier. I’ve had the fortune to count a number of Naturals as friends. I’ve seen them in-field, and their crimson art is truly a majesty to behold. They seduce with an effortlessness and serene confidence that can only be acquired from years of successful beddings and other forms of positive feedback from women.
And the naturals I knew (and know) were/are not preternaturally handsome. They were average-looking men who seemed more handsome than they were because they projected their charm and masculinity through smirks, squints, and slickly smooth verbal sorcery.
So what about the Self-Improved Casanova (SIC) and his commonality with the Natural? What Game haters don’t seem to grasp is that Naturals behave around women EXACTLY THE SAME WAY as “reductionist spergs” do. The main difference is skillfulness of execution, but that is something that the latter will improve with practice. Another difference: Many Naturals don’t actually know why women react so well to what they do. Relying on intuition tends to dull one’s faculty of self-assessment.
Naturals perform intuitively the same pickup techniques and strategies that SICs perform with foreknowledge. That’s the only real distinction between them. In fact, much of what the Game-aware community knows about women’s sexual nature and about the male behaviors and traits women strongly respond to is gleaned from a collection of observations of Naturals interacting with women in the field.
The *beep boop* impression comes about because some people who encounter Game teachings are uncomfortable with the systematic analysis and breakdown of a human activity — romance — that historically has been thought of as magical, nebulous, and even divine. And, yes, many Game newbs are men who don’t have intuitive social grace, and while they are learning how to be better with women will tend to exhibit the *beep boop* quality until they get more comfortable applying what they’ve learned.
All of which is to say, Naturals and Game practitioners are a difference in degree, not kind.
***
It occurred to me to clarify that this post shouldn’t be read as a brazen assertion that any man can, with enough practice, become a Natural. That is false. By way of analogy, not every man can, with practice, become a pro baseball player. But he can become a better recreational baseball player than he would be without practice.
So it goes with seduction Systematizers emulating Naturals. If you are a born sperg, yours will be an uphill battle indeed. But if you apply yourself, you WILL get more dates, and with cuter girls than you would have gotten “just being yourself”. It works this way because the courtship behavior of Naturals (aka alpha males) is a code like any other human behavior that is open to cracking. Once cracked — that is, once you see the Vaytrix — emulation of the behaviors of Naturals will work to your non-Natural’s benefit.

Even if the premise were true, that guys who learned game have some form of autism, what would it prove? Are the guys not crushing puss? It’s just another ad hominem argument from the haters and discarded easily.
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For all the data analysis purportedly brought to bear in PUA world, these geniuses still haven’t figured out the unreliability of self-reported results.
All I can say is, seeing the “method” in action by its greatest proponents is all the proof I needed to confirm a hunch. Couple that with the utter lack of self-awareness — they send around their awkward interactions on video as proof of social mastery — and the monetary incentive for whole-cloth bullshitting, you have the least reliable sources imaginable.
In short, they’re “crushing” the drunken “puss” that sticks to the floor of the bar when the lights come up. Not anything to write home about. But given that they write obsessively about low-hanging fruit should tell you all you need to know.
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Timely post, CH. You hit all the same points I that considered earlier today and said it much better.
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[…] By CH […]
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Very well said! I am about about a year into the gamer life and damn i can’t believe it sometimes. Having real confidence. Having real options. Having multiple plates and being considered a “ladies man” Being willing to make an ass of myself if it entertains me because of abundance mentality. Knowing what to do with indicators of interest, shit tests and that last second anti slut defense. I am still learning but CH is right, watching naturals you see the code behind the matrix, even if the natural doesn’t see what he is doing or cant verbalize it effectively. Having the intuition to know when two people are about to hookup or when shit is about to go bad. Hell, you can see which of your buddies wears the pants and which ones dont in a whole different way.
The best thing is internalizing “the rules don’t apply to me” mentality. Multiple girls have told me they have done things in bed “they wont do for anyone else.” Having different girls buy you presents when you haven’t done shit for them, having them lovingly bathe you in the shower like you are royalty, having them jump through hoops because it makes them feel more valuable. Having them eat better, exercise more, doll themselves up more all because they value you so much. If anything your proper application of game makes women HAPPIER because it resets their feminist-poisoned minds and lets them enjoy the pleasure of being a women.
Fake it til you make it works, but you have to MAKE it i.e. build your value, otherwise you will merely be delusional instead of aspirational
Reviewing the cringe-inducing text messages of noobs (like on reddit cringe-pic section) takes me back to my earliest attempts at using game in texts and makes me both proud and embarrassed. Proud I have advanced past it, embarrassed I thought that shit sounded good at the time. Now a lot of the time i just don’t reply or reply with short straight forward reply instead of over-thinking a witty repartee.
Women want an experienced man. Money, social interactions, talking to women, handling tough situations and especially in the bedroom. So go get experienced. that’s why they dont mind older men. Your future girls will thank you. So keep pushing guys. If your text game sucks, keep working on it and it will become stellar.
As always, thanks to our Dark Lord CH for sharing the vast wealth of knowledge. I used to think being a player was not possible for most guys. Hot women seemed like unknowable, mystical creatures and I put the pussy on the pedestal. Now i know they are simple, creatures of emotion and they make a man’s life better but can also destroy your world if you let them. All they want is a MAN to lead them on an adventure. its much easier to lead when you have a map and know the terrain…
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Excellent points, quix and this needs to be reiterated:
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The term ‘game’ has absorbed all the undercurrents that come with video games, particularly the blood-laden ones. Also from some of the hard-hitter sports. So that it probably seems to spray a certain violence onto the “nebulous/divine” nature of romance. People truly bothered by it are too caught up in the nominal rather than fully enjoying the actual. Life. Also, what isn’t magical, nebulous, about body-language sorcery, BLS? Goes full circle.
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As regards the Spergtardery -vs- the Naturalism, I feel like so much of this gets back to personality and upbringing. So many of the Spergs I know probably came out of very Cluster-C families [obsessive/compulsive, passive-aggressive] with Mothers who were riding their a$$e$ to comb their hair, tuck in their shirts, keep a perfect 4.0 GPA, and always be a gentleman around the ladies. Whereas now I’d tend to associate Naturalism more with Cluster-B [narcissism, histrionics, BPD, etc] or even outright “Non-Specified” psychopathy and the Devil-May-Care attitude which chicks adore.
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So much of slaying the p00ntang comes back to maintaining a rock solid Inner Frame of ZFG, and ditching all the worry and the anxiety and the neediness and the butthurtedness which chicks can smell on you from a mile away. But if, say, you were a spergtarded engineering major, and even if you were really athletic at some sport [swimming, cross country, biking, triathlons, WTFE], if you’re coming out of a Cluster-C background, then when you’re approaching a chick, you’re likely to be haunted by thoughts such as “What would my Mom & Dad think of me if they were to see me with my erect!on plunging deep into this chick’s rectum?!?”
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And then there’s the morality of it all, and whether ZFG is taking you so deep into the Dark Triad that you’re in danger of losing your immortal sou1 – whether you still feel awful when a plate starts crying and begging you not to leave her, whether you go for the pump-n-dump knowing it could very well break the poor girl [or whether you gracefully pass on the opportunity], and whether the fact that you’re helping to spread the onslaught of R-Selected sem!tic or!entalistic filth at the expense of our beautiful G0d-given K-Selected birthright is nagging at your conscience…
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CO… Your words are gold. I’ve been telling the manosphere that luciferian new age science is actually true, but too many are focused on notch counts. Why? Because women aren’t as sophisticated as men… so rather than being the bigger person (God is man, after all) they stoop to the female’s level, equivalent to the zionists use of spirituality and kabbalah to screw over the ignorant. Rationalizing evil as an amoral darwinistic nihilism that will only end badly. Let them reduce themselves back to beast, because that’s what they will become.
On the other hand, you have those who can see that women are just trying to catch up to us and as males and females we still have a lot of historic karma to cleanse… from war brides to warlord harems, there is no way man can look into a female soul without seeing a reflection of his own self within her. Her ancestors passed on the knowledge from all their pain and suffering, which is why she has programmed herself for survival. To change our code, we must actively sublimate female hypergamy to work in society’s favor for a significant amount of generations if we want to see them truly appreciate what man had done for them. This can’t happen as long as we follow along with ZOG’s plan. Gandhi was right – be the change you want to see in the world.
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It’s what I’ve been monitoring about myself as of late. That Darkness is consuming. Reminds of that scene if Wall Street,when he tells Bud about starting into the abyss keeps him from going into the abyss.
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mendo, whenever I read YaReally’s & Walawala’s posts, I think to myself, “Okay, dude, you’ve mastered the algorithm, now whattaya gonna do with your new-found power?!?” Traditionally there were two schools of thought there – either “Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely” or else “With great power comes great responsibility”. But lately I am starting to feel that accumulation of power [or money] exists as a filter which tends to weed out anyone who isn’t a psychopath.
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+100 Dude you and mendo hit it on the head!
I have been grappling with how deep the darkness goes and what it does to you. Like damn you can get away with murder but that little nagging voice in your head makes you feel guilty for doing to a girl what every girl you ever dated has done to 99% of guys she will ever date lol. One of my plates tried to guilt trip me into a relationship and i had to get cold blooded and remind her that since day one i told her this was going nowhere. sometimes they truly want and need to hear you say “SHUT THE FUCK UP” and take them down a peg, its weird. I wish more men including myself had the cold-blooded pragmatism that seems so native to women and true psychopaths. But we were raised to be betas and undoing that conditioning can be painful. Oh well, get over it fellas and harden the fuck up. Like CH and others have noted, game is really just men applying alot of the tactics women are known for: coyness, aloofness, branch-swinging and always seeking a better deal. all is fair in love and war
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@ quixotic
“makes you feel guilty for doing to a girl what every girl you ever dated has done to 99% of guys she will ever date.”
This is the key, brother. And women know they have all of society behind them on that.
So imagine how strong and impressive any man must look to women if – instead of being a self-doubting worm – he can resist all of that bullshit and social pressure. Damn. He must be an alpha!
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>> if you’re coming out of a Cluster-C background, then when
>>you’re approaching a chick, you’re likely to be haunted by
>>thoughts such as “What would my Mom & Dad think of me
>>if they were to see me with my erect!on plunging deep into
>>this chick’s rectum?!?”
This.
I didn’t free myself of this s**t until my early 40’s and used _very limited_ game to snag the significant other.
Kiddo #4 seems to be in the oven as I type.
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In terms of the boy’s childhood, I think a really good musical analogy could be made with playing in concert band & youth orchestra [Cluster-C] versus playing in jazz ensemble or even just a garage rock band [Cluster-B]. In jazz/garage band, you eventually have to get up there and attempt to improvise a solo, even if it’s something as insipidly moronic as the 12-bar blues, and you’re gonna make a complete fool of yourself, and everyone in the audience is gonna cringe while they listen to you, but you just keep on soldiering away and faking it til you make it. Whereas if the boy only ever plays legit, then he’s hiding behind all that Cluster-C perfectionism [necessary for the genre], and he isn’t forced to suffer the humiliation of baring his soul only to be laughed at by everyone within hearing distance.
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In football terms, I think the analogy might be hiding at Right Guard [especially if your quarterback is right-handed] where no one will ever notice you [because a right-handed quarterback is at greatest danger from being blindsided by a rush on the left side of your line] versus baring your entire Id/Ego/Super-Ego to complete humiliation by playing man-to-man Cornerback defending the opposing team’s best Receiver.
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In re Cornerbacks & defensive players in general, the other soul-breaking humiliation in football is missing an open-field tackle. I glanced at little bit of the Rose Bowl on Jan 1st, and I seem to remember some White dude [probably Christian McCaffrey] coming around the left side of Stanford’s line, and juking some poor Noggish dude on Iowa’s right side, and White dude froze the poor Nog in its tracks, and White dude waltzed untouched into the end zone. The poor Nog will be ridiculed about missing that tackle unto its dying days.
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On offense: Missing the game-winning field goal, fumbling just shy of the goal-line with only seconds left on the clock, dropping the game-winning pass in the endzone. NOTHING VENTURED, NOTHING GAINED.
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The music analogy had more merit to it, but you lost me on the football analogy:
You’re saying that the CB has greater moxie and will prosper better in all phases in life by challenging himself to always stop the opponents top wide out, versus the QB who hides behind his right guard to protect him and maybe dinking-and-dunking the ball here and there. QB’s going all textbook status while CB, still reliant on technique, has to adjust on the fly, so to speak. QB won’t scramble and take a chance downfield, either fear of getting hit or an INT.
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Carrie Underwood broke up with Romo when he botched the snap in Seattle in a playoff game years ago.
Then, Jessica Simpson broke up with Romo when his 14-2 team lost at home to the eventual champs. And, they were vacationing in Mexico the week before. “Women weaken legs!”
And Kendra from Girls Next Door stayed with Hank Baskett after he botched the Saints’ onside kick to start the second half of the fucking biggest game on the planet. HAHA! (Had to throw that one in there)
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No, I’m talking about the RIGHT GUARD. No one ever notices the RIGHT GUARD just like no one ever notices the spergtard who stays at home and whacks off to pr0n – they only notice the Left Tackle, who is tasked with protecting his [right-handed] Quarterback’s blind side, and who gets humiliated when some massive 350lb 4.5/40-yd-dash Nog spins straight around him and nails the Quarterback. Playing Right Guard [= whacking off to pr0n] is the safe choice. Playing Left Tackle [= opening on chicks in meatspace & trying to chat them up while everyone is watching] bares your soul to humiliation.
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Okay, that makes more sense. I glossed over RG and was thinking QB.
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On defense, the analogy might be Middle Linebacker [pr0n] versus the Cornerback who is guarding the best receiver man-to-man. The Middle Linebacker almost always gets some action on almost every play, and generally he gets the action at really favorable angles of attack, in the middle of a huge scrum of other dudes. Whereas the Cornerback is out there all alone, and if he gets burned by the receiver for a TD [= getting laughed at by a chick in a bar], then everyone sees it, and there is literally nowhere to hide at that point.
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[audio src="http://b0wie.s3.amazonaws.com/radio/budlightfootballcheer.mp3" /]
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Staying home and whacking off to pr0n is the easy choice. Gritting your teeth, sucking it up, and going out there and suffering humiliation after humiliation after humiliation with the chicks is the difficult choice. NOTHING VENTURED, NOTHING GAINED.
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[…] Naturals And Systematizers: More Alike Than Not […]
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Naturals and systematizers are no more alike than are artists and scientists. PUA is an inaccurate term — they should rather be referred to as PUS’s.
There are ways to train artists, chiefly by repetitive practice of basic technical skills, like a boxer might. But success has nothing to do with the autistic systematizing of efforts and results. That is just a side-phenomenon of nerd culture transferred to a topic less recognizably nerdy than its usual applications. The refugees from omegaville can’t help themselves.
All you need to know about the truth of this fact is to imagine revealing your spreadsheets and PUA glossaries to the women you are targeting, and ask them what they think of it. What they say is irrelevant. But your hesitation to give them a look under the hood is proof that you are desperately hiding the hidden dork that will literally give up the game.
You can develop yourself into a natural if you slay The Nerd Within. That means a casual familiarity with instructive anecdotes from veterans like zen koans, and actively avoiding the impulse to systematize.
But white men systematize, it’s what makes us white. The trick is to know in which areas of life to switch it off, and where to crank it up. You might even call that practice … charm.
Matt
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What is this *beep boop* you speak of?
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Naturals – real naturals, not faux natural wanna be’s – know “how” whereas the game aware know “why”. Both have hurdles to overcome in execution, the natural will just make up a reason “wrong shirt” “crazy bitch” etc. the game aware will review and try to understand where it went wrong.
Naturals = superstition & feeling
Game aware – science & replication
I submit that the population of true naturals that post here is sub 2%.
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@Sentient Naturals are more intuitive and from the ones I know, they are good looking, they have a ‘value’ in the form of a skill or job or hobby. Of the two naturals I know, they got a lot of girls chasing them but they weren’t “alpha” because they were always in and out of relationships. One natural I know is constantly calling his “girlfriend” even when he’s banging other girls. I didn’t really learn anything from them and my own game awareness is about “abundance” and inner game.
On the subject of the girl I was gaming. I did sexualize it. After two days I replied: “Food porn…you’re bad. Bring wine.”
She replied…in seconds: “What’s food porn?”
Me: I have an apron you’d look cute in when you come over and cook
Her: I have a nice apron— sends me selfie of her in apron.
Me: Too housemaid…more this: I send a pic of a 40’s pin up in sexy dress, big tits
Me: I’m free tomorrow, come over and cook
Her: I have a date tomorrow.
Was worth a shot, I had fun. Back to the Natural discussion. If I wasn’t game aware, i’d be down about this. But since I have three others I’ve got in a rotation I just chalk this up to experience and move on.
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@Wala
“Me: Too housemaid…more this: I send a pic of a 40’s pin up in sexy dress, big tits
Me: I’m free tomorrow, come over and cook
Her: I have a date tomorrow.”
You stepped on her line! You needed to wait until she responded to your sexy pic… Instead you get a reflexive shit test IHABF for rushing it.
she may come around yet… wait.
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@Sentient The endless shit tests. With the other one I’m gaming it was a bit more brazen. We were bantering. Texts are usually 2-3 words or a photo.
She’s also 23 but her personality is more bubbly even though she’s HB8.
I sent a cartoon of a little girl screaming her head off. Her; “you?” Me: Nah, I’m Batman. Her: like this? (sends photo of a pencil case with bat symbol. Me: Send photo cartoon of Batman leaning into a girl about to either bang or kiss her.
That hasn’t sparked a response but it has sexualized the interaction. It used to be a pain…now it’s fun…
Some of these girls blow out…others play along and the sexualizing of the banter actually gives them some plausible deniability because the interaction is in a role play.
One other note related to the OP. One of the girls I’ve gamed and banged is 24 and an art student who paints and sketches. She was on a 4 month holiday and sent me weekly nude selfies. For me, getting these types of photos from girls is normal. I showed this to a mate of mine who couldn’t believe it. For him it was like something completely out of his reality….and it is. That’s the “Secret society” that game savvy guys get. Rollo wrote that girls want a guy who “gets it”.
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Her: I have a date.
You: Would you rather break in a restaurant’s new plate or break in my new apron?
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I wonder how many “spergs” are actually naturals who have just been betatized by unfortunate circumstances.
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@Sent, RE: apex alpha and Trump
Finally sunk in what you were getting at with the apex alpha. And in the sense, too, we all have our summit to reach.
Also, most guys would be happy with 15-20 prime years. Seems like the Donald’s going on about 50 prime years. Hell, his age in prime years.
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Last night I ran into a guy that shares some of the dark arts of seduction and by extension, game tactics. The Red Pill indeed is bitter, especially in the context of what CH says “Game teachings are uncomfortable with the systematic analysis and breakdown of a human activity — romance — that historically has been thought of as magical, nebulous, and even divine.” We’d like to think that, as it is pushed by some cutting edge psy drs that have established themselves as thought leaders. Anecdotal, when the understanding of the female ID becomes second nature the results bear out and are confirmed everyday on these boards. Yet, it is exhausting. Krauser recently remarked, thathe’s hit some burnout “burnout”.
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The Romantic Movement also permanently altered peasant and common culture away from following the examples of the Aristocracy. There have been times when sex and love was romanticized to the point of irrationality well before the Romantic Movement but it was always about veneration of beauty. The Romantic Movement normalize oneitis and the idea of fated love and that love can conquer all. It felt good to believe in so it became the norm when the Huguenots began the ruination of The West.
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Oddly enough, those same game-haters have no trouble with the idea that athletic success comes from differing proportions of innate talent & deliberate training.
Some athletes have greater natural talent & others had to work harder to deliberately practice & sharpen their skills. But once they are at the same level of performance, it really doesn’t matter how they got there.
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LOL! Right – BJJ! MMA! LIFT HEAVY!!!
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the “force awakens” moment for me was in college, 3rd or 4th year, when i was gaming this grad student (hot redhead) and somewhere along the way she said to me “you’re such an overly confident a$$hole!” followed promptly by you know what 😀 it was like shooting fish in the barrel from then on…
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Sure it is, sonny .US made here and ride what’s made here steal your poosy every damn day. Most of the timeit’s not even a challenge, wigg.
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“Many Naturals don’t actually know why women react so well to what they do. Relying on intuition tends to dull one’s faculty of self-assessment.”
About the only moment of introspection I think my cousin ever had was once while admiring himself in the gym mirror: he said to me, “girls just like me, dude. I don’t know why and I don’t care.”
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“The *beep boop* impression comes about because some people who encounter Game teachings are uncomfortable with the systematic analysis and breakdown of a human activity — romance — that historically has been thought of as magical, nebulous, and even divine.”
Exactly, which is why books like “The Game” invariably get the hoary catchall pejorative “creepy” thrown at them.
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The *beep boop* impression comes about because some people who encounter Game teachings are uncomfortable with the systematic analysis and breakdown of a human activity — romance — that historically has been thought of as magical, nebulous, and even divine. And, yes, many Game newbs are men who don’t have intuitive social grace, and while they are learning how to be better with women will tend to exhibit the *beep boop* quality until they get more comfortable applying what they’ve learned.
Exactly. Time to understand that this is not magic, Love is not Magic, and time to stop listening to those who want feeble contact with some woman on Twitter by praising women and cursing those who dare improve their chances in the dating market, which only women are allowed to do.
You also encounter this: “It’s easy to get a girlfriend!” Sure – about as easy to get a job. But WHICH job, and WHICH girlfriend? The tradcons want men to settle as fast as possible. Especially the tradcons who are old men for whom the dating market is nothing but a decades-old memory, which is most of them.
And these tradcons have no sympathy for men in their twenties who sometimes go for years without a girlfriend and without sex. If they think of such young men at all they scoff at them as weaklings for not being content with their lot.
Underlying all criticism of game are two things:
One, the speaker has nothing invested in game since the speaker is a woman, or a man who has nothing to gain from dating advice either because he is too old, married, or otherwise incapable of accessing the dating market.
Two, the speaker thinks that a man’s dating success corresponds directly to his quality. If he has little success that’s because he sucks and shouldn’t have a woman, the unstated reasoning goes. This is false. These critics know nothing about the modern dating market, which is not like the future-oriented dating of the past. Here, the young man who is hard-working, intelligent and reliable loses out to empty assholes whose advantage is that they can move spasmodically to the mass-produced songs played in night clubs. New times, buddy. It is no longer about presenting who you are and what you do and hold up some symbolic flowers. Young men are no longer paired up with young women of corresponding status. Success in the modern dating market does not reflect general success in life. The modern dating market is counter-intuitive in many ways, and it isn’t wrong to teach men to navigate it.
This is not our doing, we are not the ones who complicate matters. We don’t make the rules in this dating market, we just discover them.
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This goes deeper than game. There is a mistaken notion among Americans that people with *real* talent don’t have to try. I called it the “lottery mentality.” They think Eddie Van Halen just picked up the guitar one day and out came “Eruption,” with no need to spend countless hours practicing and refining his technique.
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Hurdles are needed to properly savor any worthwhile endeavor.
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Yes – implicit in the “i’m a natural bro” mindset is the thought that they are somehow genetically gifted, and therefore eternally “better” than other guys.
Natural is just code for lack of full understanding. I say this as a guy who had a “natural” streak for a good while, and I knew numerous naturals coming up. And none of us could understand the why behind the how. We all could get laid – I never had a sexual rejection in my life until 10 months into my marriage LOL! – but we could not really understand why girls we laid drifted off, behaved like they did etc. It was all just Bitches Man!
Do yourself a huge favor, even if you think you are a natural, study game like a job. Because it will pay off in enormous dividends in all aspects of your life. Because at its core game is psychological dominance. and you can’t have too much of that…
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@Days and my own game aspiration is to make it look easy. Being a success in anything will always spark jealousy–in this case among white knights and betas.
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Agreed. My good friend is a brilliant musician. He said, “the only difference between Mozart and everyone else who isn’t writing concertos at age 6 is Mozart’s dad making him practice six hours a day.”
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Malcolm Gladwell, a few people want a refund on their 10,000 hours
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It’s the female view of the world. Born pretty, zoom to the top at a young age without really doing a lot or having to practice (practice at what?).
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Long agonized stories about being an ugly duckling before … ta da … being fully grown and good looking. That’s the adversity part, I guess.
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The grand comedy of it all is that women don’t even know what they like or why they like it and the confusion that is bred is ripe for the PUAIng
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Not sure why people are hating on game. Exactly as hosswire above pointed out, “athletic success comes from differing proportions of innate talent and deliberate training.”
We applaud the guys who overcome obstacles to achieve greatness. Witness Mike Piazza (finally voted into baseball’s Hall of Fame today), who was drafted 1,390 in the 1988 draft, and went on to become the hardest-hitting catcher of all time.
In my teens I was a pretty good athlete, but I had to work hard at it. And I so I got better. I sucked at women – I wouldn’t have got laid in a whorehouse with a fistful of fifties. So I started learning from naturals around me (almost none of whom could have told me anything useful – except one guy who said, “Tell her it’s your birthday!”) and absorbed real-life experiences. By the time the interwebz began disseminating (ha) the dark arts of learned charisma, I was ready.
Success breeds confidence which breeds further success. Not more complicated than that.
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Is this your reply to this MPC thread, since AFAIK you don’t post there?
http://mpcdot.com/forums/topic/8723-im-20-and-rektbut-can-i-leave/
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If I were the poor BennyG with all that conflicting advice, I’d now be even more confused.
But like a number of others in that thread, I’d first recommend that he cuts out the porn and vidya. Apart from everything else, masturbation is not a great guide to what sex will be like or how to behave either. He’s apparently overweight, so he should go to the gym and lose pounds and get a more pleasing shape. Girls look at your abs and butt, basically.
It’s not entirely clear what he wants to do. A girlfriend? A nice, classic date? Get laid? Anyway, at a minimum he needs to meet more people, particularly more girls, and practice how to socialize. Where to do that you ask?
Well, as it happens, BennyG has a YUGE opportunity to do that this year: stuff the vidya and porn in the closet and VOLUNTEER FOR TRUMP. However the Trump saga goes, it will at a minimum be a great few months with lots of energy and lots of people.
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probably ‘naturals’ have a little more emotionality and physicality to them, traits women can relate to. naturals also tend to be less cerebral.
a lot of naturals have either been introduced to or figured out what women are all about at a young age. my ahah! moment came in 7th grade when in class i watched my friend lightheartedly pressure this girl into having sex with him (again) that afternoon. she was shy but she went right along like a puppy dog. f’n 13 years old! my eyes were opened wide after that. I was like “teach me sensei”. that’s the time to learn, when you’re young and too stupid to be scared
the drawback of learning game later in life is overcoming the poor training caused by the accumulated years of self doubt and pussy-pedestalizing. the guys I meet who really want to learn game, or think they already know it, generally just care TOO MUCH. their confidence is paper thin and they’re totally outcome dependent. then they see me break some girl down to shreds and she’s all into me and they’re jaws drop and they’re like WTF??? and I’m like “yeah, that’s how you do it”. and what I’m doing isn’t even that special. I’m just being myself. it’s just that their approval-seeking training is so completely back-asswards
like any skill, you start off learning game with your head first, then, with practice, you hopefully get outta your head and into your body. it’s important to make that transition. you can’t THINK your way through these interactions because they’re happening too fast, in real time. you have to FEEL. feelings are faster than thoughts. like trav was sayin yesterday, you can’t reduce it to a+b=c and eliminate all risk of rejection. master the first step of not putting women on the sky high pedestal. be like a natural and don’t give a rat’s ass what any woman thinks of you. that’s the first step of getting outta your head and into your body. then it’s easier because you’re responding to HER instead of to your busy brain. the pedestalizing is THE biggest distraction
CH once reduced game to one phrase: impress me. that pretty much nails it
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>>the drawback of learning game later in life is overcoming the
>>poor training caused by the accumulated years of self doubt
>>and pussy-pedestalizing
This.
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Having started from an Omega level to now being a former Beta (I won’t call myself Alpha yet, but getting there), I completely agree with this Heartiste post.
(This blog is a great blessing to a lot of us. I started reading in 2008 or so…I posted for the first time this year, after having lost 100 lbs and an ugly wife since 2008).
Alpha: awareness with self forgetfulness. Lack of guilt, ease in all situations, fundamentally: lack of fear.
Both women and men respond positively to the Alpha.
The positive male response yields career success for the Alpha.
The positive female response to the Alpha yields romantic/sexual success with the ladies.
Realistically: you can control your approach to life, one moment at a time, one interaction at a time.
At 48: I am living exceedingly well. A lot of gratitude to Heartiste for opening my eyes to female nature and female needs.
Big props to CH!
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Baldassare Castiglione coins the concept sprezzatura in The Book of the Courtier, where he portray his ideal courtier:
“Therefore anyone who wants to be a good pupil must not only do things well but must also make a constant effort to imitate and if possible, exactly reproduce his master. And when he feels he has made some progress it is very profitable for him to observe different kinds of courtiers and, ruled by the good judgment that must always be his guide, take various qualities now from one man and now from another. Just as in the summer fields the bees wing their way among the plants from one flower to the next, so the courtier must acquire this grace from those who appear to possess it and take from each one the quality that seems most commendable.
However, having already thought a great deal about how this grace is acquired, and leaving aside those who are endowed with it by their stars, I have discovered a universal rule which seems to apply more than any other in all human actions or words: namely, to steer away from affectation at all costs, as if it were a rough and dangerous reef, and to practice in all things a certain nonchalance (sprezzatura) which conceals all artistry and makes whatever one says or does seem uncontrived and effortless.
I am sure that grace springs especially from this, since everyone knows how difficult it is to accomplish some unusual feat perfectly, and so facility in such things excites the greatest wonder; whereas, in contrast, to labor at what one is doing and, as we say, to make bones over it, shows an extreme lack of grace and causes everything, whatever its worth, to be discounted. So we can truthfully say that true art is what does not seem to be art; and the most important thing is to conceal it, because if it is revealed this discredits a man completely and ruins his reputation.
I remember once having read of certain outstanding orators of the ancient world who, among the other things they did, tried hard to make everyone believe that they were ignorant of letters; and, dissembling their knowledge, they made their speeches appear to have been composed very simply and according to the promptings of Nature and truth rather than effort and artifice. For if the people had known of their skills, they would have been frightened of being deceived. So you see that to reveal intense application and skill robs everything of grace.
And in contrast we see in many of the men and women that graceful and nonchalant spontaneity because of which they seem to be paying little, if any, attention to the way they speak or laugh or hold themselves, so that those who are watching them imagine that they couldn’t and wouldn’t ever know how to make a mistake.”
Baldassare Castiglione, The Book of the Courtier
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I love this kind of stuff, thank you for posting!
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It’s like this – if you were stuck in a sales job and weren’t naturally talented in closing deals, what would you do? The first choice is that you could “be yourself,” putting more effort into your clumsy calls and off-putting, needy, high pressure natural style. Maybe you could continue to scrape by indefinitely with poor numbers. You might even tell yourself that the guys with the big numbers are somehow cheating – maybe they get the best leads because the boss favors them, maybe they’re defrauding the company with made up numbers, or maybe they’re misrepresenting the product’s qualities to the customers. No doubt some people do this, and probably a lot of them decide that sales isn’t for them and then enter another line of work. But the other course would be to do something to actively improve your skills at sales. It would be reasonable to watch what the guys who were really good at sales did and didn’t do. You would notice that, whether they were taught or naturally good to begin, they’d probably be doing some of the same things. Things that are counterintuitive, like instead of obsequiously asking for the customer to buy the product, they’d proceed as if the customer had already tacitly decided to purchase the product.
I think many of us have had a series of red pill epiphanies, rather than one single moment when everything fell together. For me, I noticed that if I was in a relationship with or had Oneitis for girl X, I would get very positive feedback from other attractive girls whom I just wasn’t interested in at the time. As soon as I was available or gotten over Oneitis, the same girls would immediately turn cold. So, I figured it’s either a curse or something else was going on. Little by little you come to notice that you’ve been calm, easygoing and aloof attitude with the interested girls – but your blue pill conditioning kicks in and short circuits the obvious conclusion. “Girls like compliments, gifts, flowers, and elaborate and expensive shows of interest, together with respect, punctuality, availability, and obsequiousness” the FI conditioning tells you. “Put your cards on the table, don’t play games, give loads of compliments and praise.” No, all of those interested girls must have been a fluke, you tell yourself, to override the conclusion experience compels. Then one day both your personal experiences and the observed experience of chicks digging jerks simply gets overwhelming.
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Here’s the uplifting, awesome reality.
Anyone can learn game, and anyone can improve their lot in life by doing so. It’s nothing but studying for a test instead of winging it. No matter how good you are naturally (at ANYTHING, not just Game), you can always get better by practicing and learning.
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How profound, you is, Bawney Fwank.
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I find it fascinating that this individual keeps hanging from me like a dingleberry. I’ve probably made 2 posts in 3 months and he’s replied to both with the eager thirst of a starving Ethiopian. What’s your angle?
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As with any skill, it starts off awkward, conscious, plodding, and linear. After a lot of the right kind of practice, it becomes more graceful, subconscious, smooth and circular. And of course, just like any other skill, some people have a higher starting plane and finishing point.
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[…] Source: Heartiste […]
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from CH: “who will never really get women because of his emotional limitations”
Perhaps this can be used to the fledgling’s advantage? Certain kinds of emotional limitations can indeed be very attractive to women. Then again, if they are indeed Spergbots then, they will take forever to understand the difference between being unphased by their bullshit and being unphased by stupid shit they laugh at like pre-pubescent monkeys. Or over-scheduling a date.
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I’m guessing this is a response to the MPC thread sh*tting all over the PUA-sphere, and it while the response does have some merit on the criticisms made on the forum, the real problem the tradcon has with game is not its effectiveness (or lack thereof) or nerdiness but rather its stated goals and naked hedonism. With Internet porn, detached millennial relationships, and the decline of masculinity in the west today; there is a great need for real talk and solid advice when it comes to young men and their place in society and with the fairer sex. But unless marriage and children are a serious (and ultimate) part of the message, it does no good for the spiritual condition and prosperity of our race.
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Field Report
Walking into the HP today and saw the 9. Told her to come have coffee with me. I got her coffee and went outside to sit with her. She commented about a couple of women that walked by in regards to how good they looked which I responded with “I will be the judge of that.” Made me feel more comfortable with checking other women out. I had a couple of buddies come by and say hi. Also had a flock of beta’s congregating near me and gawking. Ended the meeting with a big hug, etc. She likes me.
Went inside and saw the owner of the restaurant/lounge I went to with the fam the other night sitting next to my friend. He motioned to me that I could sit next to him. I introduced myself and said I was at his restaurant the other night. He asked “who were you there with?” At that point I knew he was trying to figure out why I had asked his 21 year old waitress for her number when it looked like I was there with my family. He eventually left with a little awe in his demeanor.
Then a hot black gal sat down near me and my buddies. A conversation started and I instigated kino with some bold statements about hugging me. She was all smiles. She had a good white collar job. I got up and handed her my phone then said she can input her number. As she was working to input number I see a couple of brothers who were near the table looking on in shock. They clearly were taken back by my brazen ways as they looked like they were about to take a Greg Eliot. I looked at them as if to say that the road goes both ways.
Felt good.
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Selling and PUA have a lot in common. First, a good salesman wins by prospecting. Even a mediocre salesman can be successful if he gets in front of enough quality prospects (not to be confused with suspects). Second, the more prospects a salesman sees, the better he gets at closing. Third, the better the closer he is, the more he wants to chase bigger game. Winning is addictive. So is losing.
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Another annoying thing Game haters do is disparage game because it does not work like irresistable magic on any woman for any man in any circumstance.
For example, unless Game gets models lining up to bone a man every time he applies it, then it must be a lie.
In reality, as everyone here knows, no seduction is guaranteed. Having game merely increases your odds at every stage in the seduction process. You approach more & prettier girls, you turn more approaches into flirtations, you turn more flirtations into seductions, and you turn more seductions into women who adore you & want to repeat the experience.
All these increased odds wind up in a drastically improved outcome for a man. A greater choice of hotter women to spend his time with and control over what form their relationship takes.
For anyone who has lived both with and without using deliberate charisma, that improved outcome is life-changing.
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As she was working to input number I see a couple of brothers who were near the table looking on in shock. They clearly were taken back by my brazen ways as they looked like they were about to take a Greg Eliot. I looked at them as if to say that the road goes both ways.
Felt good.
Did you get the bitch digits or no ?Sumbitch , it sounds like some of you fella’s have memorized EVERY JOT AND TITTLE of every penthouse forum that you ever read (albeit with more honesty) and (self ) pasted together(AHEM ).
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When younger, I was a natural…and from a clan of epic naturals. Then I got tricked into a beta-mind-detour/drowning in toxic lies -> lost years phase.
Then I started to read, here, mostly, and it all came back like a cherry bomb.
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You’re a millionaire. That helps being a natural an awful lot. Not saying its not so, but you have to admit it clouds the waters.
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Any externality will cloud the water, substitute money with looks, or humor, or musical ability or athletic ability etc etc. Eventually you will be in a place where your “natural” advantage and way of doing things doesn’t work the same, usually the situation you find yourself in has changed, and then you are confused.
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that would make a good post, ‘the lost years syndrome’.
the guys I know who were early ‘naturals’ myself included ultimately succumbed to beta provider brainwashing in their 30s. it might have something to do getting ground down by the work/career machine. when most of our energy goes into building a nest egg, some of us settle for lower and lower quality women.
now in my forties I have the time and freedom again to do what I want. but most of the women who are easy for me to obtain, the legions of 30-40 year olds, not only don’t interest me- they turn my stomach.. I want the ones in their prime and in order to land them i had to consciously learn game. fortunately i didn’t have to learn from scratch. i just needed to become aware again of what i was doing when i was young that worked so well
if only I’d been this awake when I was 30. the lost years heh!
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“Then I got tricked into a beta-mind-detour/drowning in toxic lies”
Churchianity, Marriage + Career = Unholy Trinity of Beatatude
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Take the pink pill
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+1
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These anti-game people are just your classic player haters. If a man is getting sex as regularly as he wants from the type of women that he wants then nothing else really matters in this concern.
Naturals are at a disadvantage because they don’t have self realization of their game and I have seen many of them get raked through the coals when they reach a certain age and meet a woman they want to try and settle down with. They make poor decisions and loose frame because there is no relationship interaction understanding in their game.
Learned game types are at obvious disadvantages but often ultimately have a lot of success because knowing why you are having success is just as important as having it if you want to sustain it in the long run. Correlation is not causation.
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Been reading here for a few months. This stuff is amazing. It works. And now that I have some experience under my belt, I find I have some natural talent, things I’ve been doing by instinct. I’m having the time of my life. For the first time in my life I’m being pursued. What a rush. Thanks, CH, and thanks to the commenters. It’s a blast separating the wheat from the chafe, seeing how I can improve my deliveries, and fucking hot poon all the time.
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Naturals … I was a bit of a natural in younger years simply by being fit and somewhat attractive. So there were a good number of opportunities and the shots were fairly easy. But it wasn’t until I got the theory right (here, among other places) that it moved from “getting lucky” to actually learning the rules and knowing what’s going on. Among other things, I can now look back on plenty of failed interactions where I did or said the wrong thing and see how easily it could be fixed by knowing and applying game.
I have an acquaintance who is by far the greatest natural of our little group. But apparently some girl a while ago called him “an old man” and his game fell apart after that. So now he’s moping and not even trying anymore (yeah, it’s kind of silly). Again, just a bit of theory would have helped him out at this point, when “being a natural” collapsed.
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To me it is a fascinating question why WE have such a problem with seduction. In Latin America, it is common to talk about “seducir” and knowing how to “conquistar”. At the same time they are very romantic, Amor is only for people, you would never love a person as you can love a car. There are even women whos nickname for you might be “Mi Vida”- my life, and while for some women it might mean like “honey” for others it really means “My Life”. Maybe it just comes down to being a society worried more about money and houses that friendship and love have always been neglected..and its so deep rooted that its expected. Who would ever tell you that reading multiple books about tactics and strategies for getting a higher paying job would be a bad thing?(meanwhile you may be sacrificing precious freedom, health and soul, in the torturous job youve chosen).
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Sentient, HABD, Walawala, Ripp et al – any suggestions on good ping texts to mass-send to a bunch of old prospects? I’m thinking if it is possible to reactivate some old contacts with minimal effort.
These are mostly girls I met online – last contact anywhere from 3-4 months to 2 years ago. Some I’ve slept with and they drifted off, some I’ve been on date/had makeout with but not banged, and some I never met – just exchanged texts but never got round to meeting.
Most of them are just going to be cold leads (especially girls who I didn’t even meet) but I figure it’s worth a shot – 5 mins of texting could pull out 1-2 hits out of 20-30 numbers or more..
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You might try the non-sequitur gif…
This beaver is good for many things…
You: [beaver pic]
Her:???
You:Sup… beaver on my mind…
Her:OMG you’re so bad…
You:Wait, what are you talking about? LOL
and variations thereto.
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Thanks Sentient – that gives me some ideas to work with – some kind of non-sequitur leading to a sexual innuendo.
I really like Walawala’s lion tail bite picture but I may have used it already with many of these girls..
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@Culum
just think something up and do it…lol…(you’re advanced enough for that…) then observe the results…adjust…rinse and repeat…
fly, little birdy, FLY…lol…
they’re just silly girls…lol…and you can always get more opportunities…there really is an infinite number out there…(for ALL practical purposes…lol)
maybe break the groups up into 3 sections and try 3 approaches…it’s all GREAT practice…and it’s something you can do between actual sarging periods…
good luck!
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