There are some aspects of Game that qualify more as art than science. Everything is reducible, but the poetic oscillations of life most strongly defy digestible truncation. Seduction has those poetic parts that emotionally resonate but yield little to logical examination that the limbic system hasn’t already deduced.
This came to mind in a recent post about a reader who tried to pique the curiosity of a hindquarter-flaunting attention whore over (I presume) Tinder. I gave him some advice, but in the end he lost her with this line:
i fucked up by asking her “isnt it past your bedtime?”. the broad didnt reply
As I explained to him, I would’ve warned him (if I knew ahead of time) that that line was a tingle stopper. Girls hear that and think “creepy beta trying to keep me up all night talking sex”.
But why, exactly, is that line icky to girls, but a similar line that is CH-approved —
“go to sleep stalker. i’ve gotta get up tmrw”
— is alluring to girls?
We can all feel in our bones how awful that first line is, but what precisely is it in that combination of words in the original iteration that curdles cooch? If chatting with Tinder girls is an art impregnable to deeper scrutiny, how is a man supposed to know what will work and won’t work?
I’m about to ¡SCIENCE! this bitch all up in here. The first line – “isn’t it past your bedtime?” – suffers from two pussy-parching flaws:
- It’s a question asked far too early in the interaction (immediate questioning puts the man in the unsexy chaser role, begging for scraps of info from the girl)
- The word choice, and the innuendo ejaculating from the sentence, trigger a girl’s anti-slut defense system. She hears “bedtime” and thinks “sexytime”. She also feels the question implies she’s staying up just for him. Nothing wrong with assuming the sale, unless you pull that card too soon and without sufficient confidence in your hand.
The second line – “go to sleep stalker. i’ve gotta get up tmrw” – solves these problems. It’s a statement, not a question. And it avoids ASD-triggering sex words. It also assumes the sale, but less cloyingly; the facetious “stalker” accusation is a false disqualification that makes girls’ hearts race. The second line insinuates that the man is the “chasee”, and that perception influences how she will feel toward him (intrigued), but the insinuation is couched in a cocky jerkboy dismissal rather than a yearning horny inquiry.
On a whiteboard, the two lines aren’t all that substantively different. But in the realm of pickup, seemingly trivial word choices can accelerate, or blow up, a rolling seduction.

Even just the rhythm alone, the latter rolls of the tongue.
The first has stuttering, staccato like quality to it. The “t” sounds give it a harsh, scolding tone.
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[…] The Fine Line Between Icky Beta And Alluring Alpha […]
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meh. I’m sure many jerkboys have gotten away with that type of faux-pas.
If he lost her with that sentence, there wasn’t much if any attraction to begin with.
[CH: no doubt there wasn’t much attraction to begin with (yet). but that line sealed the no-deal. a better line would have bought him more opportunities.]
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The line he used just sounds like playful teasing where he’s treating the girl like a kid.
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P.S. I would’ve said “It’s past your bedtime.”
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Context is everything here. Early on in the interaction, over Tinder where there isn’t face-to-face interaction and some doubts on her part.
Fast forward to after he’s banged her and the line has that jerk-boy tease.
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I think a problem here is that just mentioning the concept of a “bedtime” makes the mentioner seem childish. It’s like something a manly man should have forgotten even exists.
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No mention of the “creepy pedo” connotation of the “bedtime” line? Because that’s what jumped out at me when I read it.
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More: The first line is a cliche, the second is not.
The first line is schoolmarmy, the second is not. Flipping the sex role script from chaser to chasee is good, flipping it from headmaster with hairbrush in hand to nagging schoolmarm is not.
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interesting covo needs to be had more
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I have been watching quite a bit of the Joe Rogan podcast lately and can recommend it.
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That first line carries VERY different weight over Tinder or text than it does in person, said with a smirk, looking dismissively at a girl out of the corner of your eye while you’re being dealt a hand in Blackjack.
I just pulled off a one-call close by using that exact line on a girl sitting at the table next to me and continuously inquiring about how to learn to play. Even qualified herself to me repeatedly by talking about how the pit boss didn’t believe she was old enough to play and repeatedly carded her. She says she was 28, looked 22. Tight body, cute face, 8/10 overall. Bubbly. Very attractive and extraverted.
After her repeated attempts to start a conversation and qualify herself to me, that’s when I dropped the ‘bedtime’ line. It lit a fire under her and I got the “not you too!” eyeroll and gentle arm punch for pressing the pain on the line the pit boss gave her. She drove me back to her place (I had taken an Uber) and sealed the deal at 2:30 in the morning. By 7:30 I was gone before she woke up. Too annoying to see again.
I guess my only point is that context matters – A LOT – when it comes to the proper and improper times to drop certain lines. I would never agree that this line is always beta, especially because it worked extremely well with the body language and tone I was displaying.
CH, would love your thoughts in agreement/disagreement.
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Not to be critical, I don’t understand how banging a girl you just met at a blackjack table is a badge of honor. Doesn’t it bother you that she probably did that with 50 other dudes, on 50 other nights, before you? If I wanted to bang a slut, I could just hire a pro and not need any game at all.
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The point was not that it was a conquest. The point was that the line’s context mattered at least as much as the line itself. Try to keep up.
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Yeah, that was a rather horrifyingly nihilistic episode which tmom2 related. As recently as our fathers’ & grandfathers’ generations, intimate knowledge of a woman was a wonderful glorious frankly miraculous thing. Nowadays it’s apparently less satisfying than taking a friggin dump on the toilet.
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So paying to so it with someone who did it with hundreds instead of doing it for free with someone who did it with 50 is a great move. Good to know.
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“Isn’t it past your bedtime?” is something your dad would say; that’s what makes it creepy.
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Ok, fair. I can see that, but if it’s said with a dismissive annoyance toward the girl, it’s more push-pull. If it’s said with a creepy stalker smile, yeah…weird and pedophilic.
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I used it with success, but by saying it in a facetious manner during a high note in the interaction.
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I don’t toe a fine line…
I just kick open the door and scream, “Whorefinder’s home!”
Jack Nicholson and Brian Billick rape!
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Brian Billick? The football coach?
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”When you go into the lion’s den, you don’t tippy-toe in. You carry a spear. You go in screaming like a banshee.”
–Brian Billick
http://www.nytimes.com/2001/01/25/sports/pro-football-billick-prepares-team-with-oratory-and-alchemy.html
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When it comes to banter on Tinder, less is more.
The problem with shoehorning a girl into Tinder banter is eventually you’ll want to bang her and that will require getting out of the “banter zone.” And she’ll be surprised, almost shocked when you attempt to get out of the place she’s put you in.
Beware of girls who are great at banter on Tinder – more often than not, it’s because they spend a lot of time talking, and not a lot of time banging.
A little bit of light banter is fine, but don’t let it go endlessly back and forth. Have the last word, then immediately reframe to something logistic with a view to meeting.
The longer your total back and forth conversation goes on Tinder, the worse your odds are of banging her on the first meet. Don’t allow her to get too much of an impression of you via text, either good or bad. Because chances are it’s going to be one of two things: He’s way too smooth or he’s not smooth enough.
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If I may use a baseball analogy, the difference in these lines is akin to the difference in pitching quality between AAA and the Big leagues. Layman can’t tell or appreciate the difference (pitchers still throw mid 90’s). Yet seasoned pros know that this gap is the biggest one to jump over.
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Cruz’s career is over. He was too stupid to learn when that unknown nobody shitlord handed him his ass on YouTube.
Cruz is as stupid as a nigger.
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I am a guy who appreciates fine lines between things. Like, the really excellent and dazzling fine line between extreme carelessness and gross negligence in regard to the care of major state secrets. Indeed, that one must be the thinnest and most highly stressed of all time.
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Bitch please. This is the same Weimar America that has porn star/mudshark Kim Kardashian as a big-money TV star. Cruz will be around forever.
Weimar rape!
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Guess he needs to release that Amanda Carpenter sex tape.
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Agreed WF. This Nation (now nation, with a small “n”) is royally fucked beyond repair at this point. Not just with the dark hordes that came here, but in the hearts and minds of the White (and black) people that have been here for generations. Exhibit A: The fucked up members of the Lutheran church. Trump, at best, will be a good stop-gap move to slow down, and maybe even reverse a little, the spiraling down the proverbial shitter. Let’s face it, even with the awakening shitlords, there are way too many [w]hite-skinned carbon life forms that just don’t give a rat’s hairy ass about anything other than their libidos, games/entertainment, getting drunk/trashed (every listen to modern ‘country’ music? Every other song is about some low-talent POS trailer-park fuckwad getting drunk…men and women), or buying more toys (related to the games/entertainment). 60% of them don’t know about, let alone care about, the history and founding culture of the USA, or their own family tree. Everything is ‘relative’ to them, there is no Truth, only truth as told to them on the TV. If there ever was an uprising, 70% would just sit back and watch, and another 20% would be actively AGAINST you. Just a fact. Fight for them? Like the couple of quotes from an article someone linked to a couple of days ago, what are we fighting for…birth control, for our women to dress and act like whores, for transgender rights, for all the good obedient taxpayers to go to work in some rat-trap cubicle while the Presidents and CEOs make off with millions, for ghetto trash to make millions in sports and music (for your children to watch and emulate), for integration, for feminism? What exactly, if anything, could you get 50% of the USA to fight for that is good and decent? During the American revolution, only 3% of the population actively fought, with support overall from 10% of the population. 30% actually supported the British efforts. The rest..the great majority…just sat back on their fat asses and watched from the sidelines, OK with whoever was victorious. When Washington won, of course, a great many of them suddenly became Patriots and said they always supported the efforts in their hearts. Sorry, just rambling, because I am really pissed at the mental and spiritual lethargy that I see in many people these days. And I have no desire to watch the GOP convention, honestly. The whole thing is too dramatic and silly for my tastes. I only want one thing if, and when, Donald wins…do what the fuck you said you were going to do instead of watering down your message and actions (i.e., stab us in the backs).
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Now that’s poetry Johnny Redux.I watched your Nation from afar, and could sense the unbridled optimism of the 70s and 80s,emanating from speakers and screens. America set the tone, and all the other anglosphere countries chimed in. Africans were proud of their more civilized cousins getting in on the act and making good music too. That optimism faltered in the 90s and vanished towards extinction now, despite your nation’s feeble attempt to maintain it via anti depressants. Entropy is unavoidable, so it’s best to recognise it and face it honestly. Your country is still beautiful, with nice weather conditions. The culture is in decay, as it is throughout the world.
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Jenny Redux, I urge you to try and wrap your head around the content of this lecture. http://en.minghui.org/html/articles/2016/5/31/157233.html in terms of swallowing the red pill, few can stomach the gravity of this situation. Fire away with any questions you might have afterwards.
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That was a long read, BI, so I printed it out to read later. Thanks.
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No problem JR. It might be jumping in at the deep end to start on that lecture, so there are more lectures to read on falundafa.org (books and writings sections) that will explain any parts that the audience in Brooklyn would have taken as understood.
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Read a good deal of it, but it (the Fa teachings) do not resonate with me. Very Eastern. If it floats your boat though, good.
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Ok, fair enough – thanks for following up on my urging anyway, and I hope it wasn’t out of place. It was just your regret about the possible end of an empire that made me think you’d appreciate some perspectives in that lecture. Well, I’ve gained some insights into the progression of society to its current state, having read through the 20 odd years of lectures in that database. Floating the boat is a somewhat appropriate term all right, as he often refers to an old eastern concept of crossing ‘the sea of suffering’ (actually managing to actually do so is another story). If you do ever have further interest in it, I’d recommend perusing some of those older lectures. Regarding the printed copy, it probably sounds strange, but would you mind burning it if you’re not going to read it again? From my perspective, it’s just a matter of respecting the teachings, and you know how unwanted sheets and pages often end up getting stepped on, or torn up by a dog, etc.
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I do not know what are you so excited about Publius
I thought our goal was to destroy that cuck institution aka GOPyim
Let me summarize the Cleveland Cuckvention
So far so Cuck
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In the texting scenario, at night…especially late a night…it is important for the woman to have (and for you to let her have) the last word. If you respond last (jezuz man, fight the urge to do that beta move!!), you lost. It shows weakness, desperation…betadudeness.
Something like:
You: Blah, blah, blah.
Her: Yeah! lol. OMG! Blah, blah, blah.
You: Ok stalker, I’m off to bed. Night.
Her: Ohhhhhh, stay up!
*** {5 minutes later}****
Her: OK, then, night, catch you tomorrow.
You: Ok, sounds good [ugggghhhh….did you just do that???!! Shit!]
Her: [What a beta fag, desperate to respond] {silence}
When you say “later”, “night”, whatever…mean it! Radar silence after that. Fight the urge to be a bitch and respond. Took me some time to learn that lesson the hard way…which meant my ‘hard way’ went unsatisfied more than a few times.
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pro comment. I have had great success with your method. Try block out periods. I straight up say im busy dont expect a response for x time period, which is sometimes hours or sometimes days if work related.
Her: Blah blah
Her: Blah blah blah
Her: cluck cluck cluck
me: gonna drop out for a bit just got to the gym
radio silence for 2 hours. She then always has to have the last word as you say, i will have received at least 1 text while at the gym/occupied when i check later.
PS also note the 3-1 ratio via the 16 commandments of poon. You should be too busy handling man bidness to reply text for text 5 seconds after each other like gossiping besties. let em build up and only reply to 1 of the 3 things she said/asked or say something new if what she was talking about was useless crap.
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Yes, yes. If men would text women who are pursuing them, but in whom they have absolutely no sexual interest, like the women in whom they do have an interest (both in the quality/ZFG-attitude and frequency of responses), then game for most, without much extra effort, would increase twofold overnight.
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I had the order reversed on that a bit, but you get the point: Text women you like as you do with the ones that you don’t, and game will magically appear for you.
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There is definitely too much neediness in the “past your bedtime?” line. It becomes him imploring her to stay up so that he can continue talking to her. You can’t ever make it look like you want to talk to her more than she wants to talk to you. That’s part of what is so brilliant about “go to sleep stalker.” If it were “go to sleep, stalker.” It wouldn’t work as well. The lazy lack of comma looks like a lack of effort and including the comma looks like you’re trying too hard, like you spent effort crafting the message *just so*.
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You’re right about the comma, but it’s one tiny example of how illiterate we’ve become. Coming from me, the comma would indicate exactly zero extra crafting, because such a simple level of literacy has long since become effortless, as it should be for any educated person.
But the dumb slores don’t know that, so I’d drop it too.
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I agree with “less is more” when you’re trying to bang her like a drum later on.
You always want to make statements, don’t ask questions. You always want to assume the sale, watch her actions (if she’s present) and ignore her words. If she’s interested, then it will happen in short order. Don’t be that guy who has the chick conversation by talking (or texting) back and forth.
Your time has limits and it has value. Make her feel that during the brief encounter (leading up to the bang). Be direct.
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Line one hopes she might go to bed thinking of him. Line two assumes she’s already there.
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Don’t use any punctuation when texting with women. Use it with Men, as a normal sign of respect (because we understand the discipline of the language), but purposefully remove it when texting with women. Alone, that will improve texting game with women as it will eliminate the question-mark, which is a tingle killer. After that, just practice restating everything you would ask in a friendly manner as a statement made whether it’s taken in a friendly manner or not.
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Anyone see this one? Sheeeeeeese…
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/my-fiancee-wants-me-to-buy-a-second-home-in-her-name-only-2016-07-13
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If I was him, I would have started to laugh my ass off and tell her to fuck off, that we’re done. I might tolerate a teenage hottie being a gold digger, but it’s preposterous when it comes from some middle aged weirdo with baggage and no career.
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No kidding! Some close-to 50 year old broad demanding anything in a prenup is insane. She has the balls to demand a ‘modest’ house, and the dumbass fellow is actually giving it consideration! Not sure which is worse! He does not tell us what, if anything, she brings to the table to make such an outrageous demand, besides being the only woman for miles that will touch his pee-pee. Christ! What a sad sack.
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Isn’t it past your bedtime is a push move, obviously made in jest. If she’s not already hooked, pushing her like this is silly. If she wants to stay and chat with you all night, this line is great: it’s basically a tease about how much she digs you. If she doesn’t dig you, it comes off as spergy.
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Just started using Tinder and HotorNot and was wondering if anyone could share some tips.
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Why ask questions about game? That’s so 2010. This website is all about conspiracy theorists who’ve never so much as smelled pussy.
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OTOH, u can forever smell urs.
soap, strap, soap
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-3706577/Student-s-furious-messages-sent-rejected-ugly-classemate-sweep-web.html
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