Are PUAs Douchebags And Hucksters?

Kidstrangelove sent in a link to a video of self-proclaimed top PUA gurus attempting to demonstrate their craft by picking up a hot talk show host. He wanted to know if I agreed that the PUAs embarrassed themselves. I saw the video (which has now been made private) and do agree that the PUAs do not come off looking very suave. If this is all I knew of them, and I was in the market to learn game, I would not give my money to them for instruction.

But to be fair to the parade of men who threw their worst best game at a female talk show host who was anticipating their moves and relishing the thought of humiliating them on live TV, they were playing against a stacked deck. Few men, no matter how smooth they are with women in real life, will come off looking good under those circumstances.

So I cut them a break for their woeful performances. But this does lead one to wonder why high profile PUAs would risk certain embarrassment and discredit to their business model by hawking their skills on a talk show where all the rules are in the female host’s favor and the whole thing is a set-up to entrap the PUA into making a fool of himself. I doubt even Mystery — a man who has certainly banged more hot babes than 99% of the men in the world can claim to have banged — would do well in such a distorted scenario.

The only explanation that makes sense is that the desire for fame exceeds common sense. Maybe these guys think “Hey, I have a low chance of avoiding humiliation by doing this, but the TV exposure will certainly redound to more clients for my workshops and more chicks on my schlong.” They might be right; who knows, I don’t see their financial or bedroom balance sheets.

“Bro-town”

Kidstrangelove then linked to this post by a guy named Rob Judge (reputedly one of NYC’s best players), who eviscerates (semi-justifiably, in my view) a lot of the silliness that passes for PUAdom.

The Pickup Artist is no longer someone who walks among us. The term, once a secret endearment to men on the Internet, has become a label of satire and shame. To aspire to be a PUA—or the ever-lofty mPUA—is now, ironically, the most rAFC you could do. Because The Pickup Artist is dead… […]

Let me ask you this, Pickup Artist: If you weren’t allowed to tell anyone you got that girl’s number, would it still be cool? Would you still take her number and run like a thief in the night? Or would you shift your focus from getting #-closes to actually trying to get girls.

In fact, that brings up an important point: Why ARE you doing this? Why are you studying pickup material, involved in the community, and reading this blog? Is it to meet awesome women? Or is it to get the awesome approval of guys?

See, almost every guy will scream at me, “It’s to meet awesome women!” But what do those same guys scream when they do meet awesome women…”LAY REPORT BRO!!!” These same guys who claim they’re out to meet women are the first ones on the Brag Express with a one-way ticket to Bro-town whenever they do anything that resembles meeting an awesome woman.

Lay reports can serve as a useful learning tool for newbies, as long as they are written in the spirit of knowledge sharing and analytic insight. But too often, they degenerate into bragging matches, and that’s where the douchery rears its ugly head. Back in the day, on sites like Fastseduction.com, lay reports were gold mines of insider knowledge about the workings of the female mind; today, more of them resemble the chest-thumpings of frat boys and nerds speaking through Casanova avatars.

As those who know me very well know, I ring the death knell of The Pickup Artist because I want to see guys actually meet and attract awesome women. And The Pickup Artist will not help you do that. In fact, the first thing any guys who wants to meet and attract awesome women has to do is sift through his intentions. He must remove any inkling of “Bro-town” from his approach. I challenge you not to tell a soul about your “infield accomplishments” for a full month and see how much better you are at attracting quality women.

OK, so this guy Rob Judge is marketing himself by positioning his business model as the antidote to widely assumed PUA hucksterism and douchiness. Nothing wrong with that, but it does suggest his slam of the PUA community should be taken with a grain of salt.

The useful advice here is that you should live your womanizing life as if the opinions of men didn’t matter to you. In real life, I rarely broadcast my pickups. Truth is, I can’t be bothered. The allure of recounting in vivid detail last night’s seduction with a bunch of male friends lost its appeal after legal drinking age. Sure, if I take a call from a really good friend the next day, I’ll tell him about the chick I scored. That will never change. But most of the time, my pickups, my flings, my one night stands, and even my long term hookups, remain shrouded in shadowy mystery from the eyes of acquaintances. Often, very good friends won’t meet my girlfriends until a month after I have been dating them. My friends don’t seem bothered by this; in fact, they admire it, because it shows I’m serious about the effort I put into romancing women.

This attitude imparts my lifestyle with a bit of gravitas and, more practically speaking, allows me a measure of control over my relationships (and my ex-relationships) that would be harder to attain were the whole world to know every detail of my licentious misdeeds. And it does matter for pickup success; when it’s just me versus the women of the world, and not me and my bros versus the women of the world, I can better focus on the task at hand. Women will know, too, if your motives are tainted with anything but achieving the heights of pleasure with them.

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The Alpha Male Body Language That Attracts Women

The scientific evidence confirming the tenets of game continues rolling in like a tsunami, washing away shrieking feminists and clucking betaboys like so much worthless debris. (Here is the original paper.)

Practicing Certain Poses Creates a Sense of Power

New research indicates that holding a pose that opens up a person’s body and takes up space will alter hormone levels and make the person feel more powerful and more willing to take risks.

Gee, now where have we heard this before?

“These poses actually make you more powerful,” said study researcher Amy C.J. Cuddy, a social psychologist at the Harvard Business School.

Fake it till you make it? Not the whole story. I’ve long contended that game is its own status. That is, that the poses, behavior, words and attitude that game teaches is power in itself, and thus attractive to women. This study proves my contention. When you run game, you are becoming more powerful.

The opposite also proved true: Constrictive postures lowered a person’s sense of power and willingness to take risks.

To gather the balls to hit on women, you need to assume a posture that infuses you with ballsiness. Uncross your arms, lower your drink, open your legs, thrust out your chest, lift your chin a bit and make your crotch the locus of your chi.

In the study, researchers randomly assigned 42 participants, 26 of them women, to assume and hold a pair of either low- or high-power poses. The high-power posers spent one minute sitting in a chair in front of a desk, with feet resting on it and hands clasped behind the head, and, in the other pose, they stood, leaning forward over a table, with arms out and hands resting on the table. In both poses, the participants took up space, an expression of power not unique to the human world. For example, peacocks fan their tails to attract a mate and chimpanzees bulge their chests to assert their hierarchical rank, the researchers noted.

“These power poses are deeply intertwined with the evolutionary selection of what is ‘alpha,’” wrote the researchers in the September issue of the journal Psychological Science.

More and more, my definition of what is the alpha male is being proved correct.

The low-power group sat for one minute with their hands clasped on their thighs, legs together, and also stood for one minute with arms folded and legs crossed.

Low-power = beta. There may be a point, though, at which a man is so incredibly alpha that he can afford to display some beta poses without paying a cost in lowered attractiveness to women. Sort of like the handicap principle.

Those who held the high-power poses saw their testosterone increase, while their levels of a stress hormone, cortisol, decreased.

Chicks can smell testosterone. It’s why they moisten their panties for the male victor in a fight. Testosterone and cortisol are the two hormones to watch. The ideal level for attracting women is high T and low C. Few men can achieve that mix.

The high-power posers were more likely to risk their $2 for the chance to double it: Eighty-six percent took the gamble, compared with 60 percent of the low-power posers.

Chicks dig risk takers. Expendability is a DHV.

This study is part of a field of psychological research called embodiment. The basic idea is that the mind/body relationship is not a one-way street, with the mind giving orders for the body to carry out. Rather, the body also influences the mind. Other studies have indicated, for example, that holding an expression, like a smile, can alter one’s mood, as can a hunched posture.

People who claim that game is trickery designed to fool women into thinking the man is alpha, are wrong. Game will actually alter your perception of yourself and create a positive power feedback loop. Game even alters hormone levels.

Schubert has studied the bodily feedback produced by fist-clenching. After making and holding a fist, men reported feeling more powerful. Female subjects, by contrast, had less hope for control after making a fist.

I often find myself balling up my hands into a fist when I’m thinking about something that makes me angry.

The researchers attributed the results to the idea that men associate their own physical force with power, while women associate it with powerlessness…

Women derive their power from their sexiness, and their ability to engage in verbal subterfuge. Physical force offers them no advantage.

The study also showed that practicing these power poses before going out translates into feeling more powerful hours afterward. So, stand tall, silverback, and pillage the pussy that is rightfully yours.

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Brushing Off Common Shit Tests From Girls

Reexamining my successful pickups, it becomes clear that 80% of early verbal game is simply knowing when a girl is tossing you shit tests and how to handle them like an attractive man. Almost all good-looking women worth banging will, at one point or another, shit test you. It is coded in their DNA. The easiest and quickest way to make yourself more desirable to a woman is to pass her tests like a champ; in other words, to exploit her alpha male filtering mechanism.

Many men write asking for advice about women’s shit tests. Judging by email quantity, it’s a big stumbling block for a lot of would-be womanizers.There have been posts at the Chateau before about passing commonly encountered shit tests, so in the spirit of giving the people what they want, here is another installment in a continuing series. Thanks go to reader Legion for contributing his selection of devious female screening ploys. Edification and analysis follows. Comments from me are bracketed in italics.

Before beginning, one thing I’d like to note is that a big mistake I see a lot of men making — besides an inability to recognize a shit test when it is leveled at them — is sounding spiteful in response. The critical distinction to make when volleying a shit test is to avoid confusing sneering umbrage for cocky indifference. The line is surprisingly thin between the two attitudes. You definitely want to focus on tailoring your replies and your tone of voice to sound like the latter. A good rule of thumb: if your reply to a shit test would sound like it is coming from a man who cares that his feelings were bruised, don’t say it. Another key point — barring infrequent exceptions, your shit test replies should be succinct. Brevity is the glow of clits.

Here are some common shit tests that I’ve encountered over the years – including ones from guys trying to punk you in front of girls – and most of the answers (in bold) are my own; a few are culled from the PUA literature.

The shit tests that blindside you are the ones that really mess you up, like a punch you don’t see coming. This does extreme violence to how you’re perceived. Vaginas snap shut and dessicate abruptly.

I think mastering shit tests is KEY to success. A man with “savoir faire” is magnetic. Girls secretly spurt their panties when an alpha male is challenged in public by other men or women; she excitedly wonders how will he react. I’ve seen this before, many times: you never forget that look of hyper-aroused delight (or crushing sadness) in your girl’s face if you dominate other men (or get owned).

I think game should be expanded to cover how men interact with other men. [Editor: Agreed. However, since the majority of shit testing is done by girls, the focus shall remain on male-female interaction. Most men won’t attempt to punk you in front of a girl you are gaming. There are only so many heavy ballsacks in circulation.]

Anyway, I’d like to hear your take on these; the list is pretty basic so far. It’s not that the answers are particularly clever; it’s just that they work, and you know in the back of your mind you’re armed.

Shit tests

“Do I know you?” / “Why are you talking to me?”

Oh, I forgot there was a no-talking policy here between strangers.

[Editor: I’d drop the “between strangers” part. Otherwise, very good. Alternate replies: “You wish.” / “Your mom said you were lonely.”]

***

“I have a boyfriend”

That’s nice, well done. [keep plowing, then eject if no IOIs]

[Other good IHAB replies are here.]

***

*She asks you to do something such as get something for her, do her a favour, carry something, buy her a drink, etc*

I think you have me confused with every other guy you’ve met.

[Excellent. Alternate reply: “Does this always work for you?”]

***

“Why don’t you give me a straight answer”

It’s more fun for me not to.

[Serviceable. Catchier wording: “Where’s the fun in that?” Alternate reply: “I didn’t know this was a job interview.”]

***

“Is that your best line?”

Yeah I’ve been practising it all day.

or

Yeah, now it’s your turn.

[I wouldn’t call attention to her framing of the situation. Reframe. Say “Is that your best hair color?”]

***

“Weirdo”

Square.

or

I’m glad you like it.

[“Weirdo” is a tough one. This is more of the female version of a straight up insult rather than a shit test. A lot depends on the tone in which she says it. I’d almost be tempted to backturn on a girl flinging this at me. Alternate replies: “Smelly cooties girl.” “Dork.” “I’m blown away by your scintillating conversation.”]

***

“Kiddo” (from a sassy ho trying to take you down a peg)

Have you watched Kill Bill a little too often?

[I don’t think I’ve ever heard “kiddo” from a girl. I’d probably just ignore it.]

***

“Aw, that’s sweet”

Don’t get used to it.

[Alternates: “I’m one badass motherfucking romantic.” “Yo, check yourself.”]

***

“Your clothes are gay/look stupid”

You fuckin love it.

[Alternate: “Try not to swoon.”]

***

“Are you gay?”

No but my boyfriend is.

[Good answer. Alternate: “Yes, I’m very happy right now.”]

***

From guys: “You look like shit/ you’re fat/ugly/skinny/short/whatever.”

That’s not what your mother said last night.

[Alternates: “Stay classy, champ.” “Are you for real? I thought douchebags like you were only on TV.” “Is this a come-on? Sorry, I don’t swing that way.”]

***

“You look like a player”

Thank you.

[Be careful of overqualifying yourself when she asks you this. Good answer if she is seriously concerned: “I used to be, but those days are behind me.” Good answer if she’s clearly busting your balls: “World’s biggest. One billion served.”]

***

“Sweetheart”

Sugar tits.

[Alternate: “Don’t get clingy.”]

***

“You’re a nerd/geek” (when you say something remotely intelligent or beyond a grunt)

That’s what dumbasses call smart people.

[Whoa, too spiteful. Trading insults is not gonna get you closer to a lay. Alternate: “Absolutely. I’m too sexy for my pocket protector.”]

***

“Did you miss me?”

I know you missed me.

[Alternate: “Oh my god, I spent months building a shrine to you and dreaming of your return.”]

***

“Asshole”

That’s mr asshole to you.

[Alternate: “I do what I can.”]

***

“I can’t believe you said that”

*Don’t reply; just smirk and nod*

[Ignoring her shit test is acceptable in this situation. Many shit tests aren’t meant to be answered; they are merely meant to provoke an apologetic response from betas.]

***

A skinny twat (male): “Is that shirt a size too small?” (if you’re jacked. This insult is leveled at any jacked guy who wears a t-shirt, whether small or not)

It’s all I could find in your mother’s closet.

[Alternate: “Couldn’t help noticing, could you?”]

***

“I like your clothes.”

Cool. I can take them off later to give you a closer look.

[Flattery can be as much of a shit test as peevishness. Betas will eat up flattery; alphas will ignore or playfully turn it around on the girl. Alternate reply: “Flattery will get you everywhere.”]

***

“I don’t like you”

Sure you don’t.

[Again, how to respond to this shit test depends on tone. Did she say it coarsely, or with a peekaboo smile? If the former: “My heart will go on.” If the latter: (with much theatricality) “How can I go on living?!”]

***

“Smartass”

It’s better than being a dumbass 😉

[Alternate: “I try.”]

***

“Loser”

If in jest (“looo-ser”): Shut up ho 😉

If serious: Oh, the L-bomb. You must be really upset.

or

That’s what you are, but what am I?

[Remember, the “loser” bomb is potentially the worst thing a girl can call a man. The female equivalent is “ugly”. Much rests on her tone when she said it. “I know you are but what am I” is a good reply to her if she has said it in jest; otherwise, I’d ditch her without a moment’s thought.]

***

(From a male, or a warpig) “Why aren’t you drinking, are you a bitch or something?”

Your mother promised me buttsex if I quit the drink.

or

I’m on acid.

[Alternate, if from a man: “Why, are you looking for a date rape?” If from a warpig: “I need to see clearly, if you know what I mean.”]

***

“Why don’t you have a girlfriend?”

I haven’t found one who’s rich enough.

[Solid answer. Alternate: “Just lucky, I guess.”]

***

“Do you have a girlfriend?”

No, I have 8 of them.

[Alternate: “It’s complicated.”]

***

*Grabbing or pawing at you* (especially by a guy, trying to exert dominance)

Hey, no touching, admire from a distance.

[Alternate: “You can look, but no touching.”]

***

Now for ones I’m not too sure about. If you have any suggestions, let’s hear em.

*She completely ignores you, or tells you to fuck off*

(just leave, unfazed, and open another set)

Still, this is embarassing, and hard to smoothly walk away from.

[Walking away like she doesn’t exist is your best option. Alternate responses: “You’ve got the wrong idea. I’m interested in your friend/the girl sitting next to you.” “My hour’s not up yet. A deal’s a deal.”]

***

“Are you trying to be funny?”

You need to lighten up [eject].

[Alternate: “Are you trying to be sexy?”]

***

Angry, cunty tone: “Who do you think you are?”

[“Fuck you, that’s who I am.” Or, on a lighter note: “I’m your wettest dream.”]

***

“What’s your name again? I’ve forgotten?” (Guys use this a lot)

[“I.P. Daily.” “Hugh Jorgan.” “Seymour Butts.”]

***

“You’re a bum.”

[“The bum you love.”]

***

“Who did your hair?”

[Your boyfriend.]

***

*You legitimately fuck up and blush hard* (e.g. walking to my young female professor’s class one day I (loudly) declared to my friend I was going to skip next week’s class, and the professor could “lick my sack” if she’s unhappy about that. She was walking right behind us and clearly heard.)

[“Well, there goes that D-.”]

***

Douchey guy: “Shut up, faggot. Haha, just kidding! We’re all friends!” (trying to exert dominance – an insult followed by a “just kidding” to shield himself.)

[“No we’re not. You didn’t get the memo?” Or: “That’s right, faggot! Faggot friends forever!”]

***

“Have you read The Game? / Do you know who David Deangelo/Mystery is?”

(i.e. trying to expose you as a fakester or manipulator)

[“A friend told me about it. It’s pretty interesting stuff.” Or: “No need. I wrote the book on seducing women.”]

***

“I’m out of your league, honey”

[“The league of hot chicks?” Or: “Don’t sell yourself short.”]

Here are some other shit tests you may confront in your journey to pussyland, and ways to reply to them.

“I wasn’t talking to you.”

“Good thing. I can’t take much more boredom.”

“Are you a moron?”

“Sorry, I’m not your type.”

From a commenter: “400 guys emailed me on match…. why should I date you?”

“You’re right. Better stick to dating desperate men.” Or: “I cook a mean fried beer pocket.”

“We are two totally different people.”

“I know. I’m cool, and you’re… [nod your head and raise your eyebrows confidentially]”

“Hey, you said the same thing to that other girl!”

“Nice job, stalker.”

“Do you always come on to girls like this?”

“Only the ones who deserve it.”

“Why are you out alone?”

“So I don’t have to listen to my friends whine about me taking all the girls.”

“Oh, you’re one of *those* guys.”

“Your ex-boyfriend?”

“Don’t get the wrong idea.”

“You’re a tranny?” Or: “Please, I’m not that type of guy. You’ve gotta wine and dine me.”

“Do you like my new dress/shoes/jeans?”

“It’s nice for handsewn.”

“What’s your deal?”

“I hit on special needs girls.” (Ok, not really recommended, but damned funny in the right scenario.)

“Is this the best you can do?”

“Right now? Yes.” Or: “I’m not inspired enough yet.”

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Gaming Asian Girls

An anonymous reader with yellow fever emails:

Dear Chateau,

I was reading your post about when not to use game (game = no no for 4s and under) when I remembered seeing about two posts with a herb and its asian girlfriend.

Would you say that one shouldn’t use game on Asians?

Or would what I thought might be a pattern, be a small coincidence that means nothing whatsoever?

First, a clarification. The necessity of game is less a function of the race or absolute beauty ranking of the girl you are gaming than it is a function of the girl’s self-perceived ranking relative to your ranking, and of the amount of times (and how recently) in her life she has been hit on by men. So a princessified American 4 who fancies herself a 6 will require gaming if you are a 6, but will need little gaming if you are an 8. A 2 will need game if you are a 3, but not if you are a 7. A 6 who has been hit on by thousands of horny men because she lives in a city with a skewed sex ratio will not only require game to get in her pants, but will demand it, and this will be true for all men except those at the very highest rank.

Note that since women date up, in practice most girls will require game. Few men will be of sufficiently higher ranking than the women they meet to afford a pickup strategy that eschews game. The only real world cases that come to mind of men who don’t need any game are high social status semi-famous guys who consistently shoot low. A male 9 (within his milieu) is not going to need game if he makes it a habit of seducing only 5s and 6s. In fact, game will actually hurt his chances with low hanging pussy fruit. But once that male 9 starts aiming for female 8s and 9s, he’s going to find out the limits of his pickup prowess very quickly. 8s and 9s won’t tolerate much beta behavior from any man, even male 9s and 10s.

The point is moot, since no sane man with a discriminating penis would bother putting the work in to seduce 4s and under. The dirty little secret is that the ugly among us — the 4s and lower — pretty much hook up by catalytic reaction, involving lots of liquor, desperation, low impulse control and vision impairment.

You would think that Asians (well, Asian-Americans at any rate), being a race of women reputedly more materialistic and pragmatic in disposition than white or black women and thus given to assigning higher value to beta patronage, would respond favorably to straight up traditional courtship, but this is a myth. While Asian chicks in general are choosier about when, how much, and to whom to dispense their goodies, they love game just as much as any broad with a working vagina. The difference between seducing Asian chicks and women of other races is one of degree rather than kind.

Furthermore, and in support of the general thesis, let the record show that the hotter the Asian girl the harder you will have to game her. Hot chicks are the same everywhere — their stock is high and they know it. I remember going on a date with an Asian 8.5 thinking it would be a cakewalk (because of the dynamic I note below), only to discover that my lackadaisical non-game cost me a second date with her. The buddy who introduced me to her later remarked that I “hadn’t teased her enough”. I don’t date many Asians (they don’t enthrall me like they do the typical white herb) so that failure was a learning experience. The next Asian girl I met I gamed the shit out of — as hard as I would any sluttastic white chick. I think I even called her “dragon lady”, though she was born in America. We ended up in bed on the second date, her finger finding its way into my arsehole during sex. (Asian girls are fascinated by the anus.)

There is one glaring refinement to the above generalization, and that is the white man-Asian girl dynamic. For HBD-related reasons beyond the scope of this blog post, the white man who isn’t a complete loser can score typical Asian chicks in the 5 to 7 range with relative ease. This is not true for any other interracial match-up. Even black guys have to tone down their natural assertiveness and run a tamer version of direct game to get with white chicks of any value. (Note: Disgustingly sloppy, fat, Walmartian white whales do not qualify as having “any value”. Size, shape, color and texture must resemble the gracile antelope grazers rather than the lumbering megafauna.)

Thus we see the phenomenon of white herbs focusing like laser beams on every semi-cute Asian chick within their field of operation. Every man alive will take the pussy path of least resistance when it is available, and this rule is no different for lumpy white herbs and their starstruck Asian groupies. But the Asian girls who are 8s and above are still off-limits to the herbs.

PS: I’ve been noticing a lot more white man-black woman couples lately. Based on looks alone, the men were a mixed bag. Many of the black girls were attractive, and they were of varying skin hues, from creamy mocha to purple black. More than a few of the women looked like African immigrants. One thing all the black girls of these interracial couples had in common: they were slender. Not a fatass in the bunch.

Perhaps this points to a trend of some white men getting fed up with the entitlement complexes of white women and sacrificing their natural attraction for white girl features for the… better attitudes of black girls.

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When To Move In For The Kiss On A First Date

Shaft writes:

I’d like your thoughts on a recent date I had.

We were introduced through family. [Ed: Never a good idea if you play the short game.] We went on one date and it went well. Started 10 PM and didn’t end until 530AM.

Conversation was free and easy and I escalated slowly throughout the evening, although I didn’t push hard enough. When I needed to demonstrate value I did.  When I told her to follow she obeyed. I dropped some good negs.  I had problems with my ATM card but she had no problem paying until I straightened them out (we visited 4-5 venues) without a fuss. We said our goodbyes.

The second date is the one I’d like you to comment on.  It was the next day and I called her and invited her out for drinks.  She told me she’d call me after dinner and kept her word.  She sounded surprised to hear from me so soon but didn’t hem or haw and we met within a half hour.  This time we found a pool hall and I displayed my superiority while gently negging her.

HER: Am I really the worst pool player you’ve ever seen?

ME: It’s kind of tough to call.  I knew this blind guy who liked to play…

She liked that one.

We moved to a lounge which had couches and single chairs. I guided her to a loveseat and she didn’t protest.

I spread out alpha style and put my arm up on the back, almost around her.  We chatted for a while, light touching, teasing.  She went to the bathroom and this is when the shit test started. I hadn’t had a real one so far that night or on the first date.

I noticed that after she returned from the bathroom another button on her shirt was undone and her hair was a little more tousled than before.  She began by complementing my overall physique, but she then started to ask why I wore my clothes a little more loosely than usual. I told her it was for comfort. She told me she couldn’t tell whether or not I was in shape.  As I was wearing a polo and an undershirt she said she could better judge if I removed the polo.

Let me say that a year ago I might have complied to a request like this without hesitating, but after some game research and restoring my manly dignity, I do not perform for women, nor do I give something for nothing. Nor would I be embarassed about what she would see. I don’t have a six pack but I’m tall, lean, with wide shoulders and v-shaped back.

I decided to see if she would put her money where her mouth was and told her if she wanted it she would have to kiss me. She said no. Right then I knew it was about control. If she had wanted an excuse to escalate she had it. I reframed by teasing her she didn’t impress me with her sales skills (she’s in sales). That bought me time to pay
and walk her out of the bar and home. It was about a forty minute walk. We had a good convo pretending to bargain over the price to see me without the outershirt.

Halfway to her place I asked her if she could do me a favor. I took off my jacket and tossed it to her. “Can you hold this for me? I’m warm.” The smile on her face was priceless. She thought she was about to get what she wanted. A few minutes later when handing me back the jacket, she made an attempt to lift up my shirt. I gently stopped her hands and feigned disappointment that she would resort to trickery.  The rest of the walk home I kept about half a step ahead.

As we reached her door I slowed but didn’t stop and said my goodbyes as I turned to continue home.  She looked stunned that I didn’t hug her or peck her on the cheek. It was cordial but minimal with no contact.

As I walked away I was proud of myself for not selling out to desperation. My gut told me following an order for her would have spelled doom, but I know I missed an opportunity somewhere. Would she say yes to another date?

Appreciated,
Shaft

Even though this question from the reader is about his second date, the title of the post is about moving in for the kiss on the first date, since it is the first date when you should get physical with a girl. The majority of kiss-less first dates lead nowhere. It is also a bad idea to schedule a second date the very next day following the first date. This reader was one of the fortunate few to dodge some self-inflicted seduction-killing obstacles. The rest of his game — such as the handling of her shit tests — was good, and probably accounted for her continued interest.

Her are some basic rules about kissing on the first date:

1. Do not kiss her when you meet her at the start of the first date. You are not as debonair or as European as you think you are, and neither is she. A kiss upon meeting is going to feel awkward for her and for you. This goes even in those first date cases where you previously had a sloppy make-out with her in the bar on the night when you scored her digits. Actually, it goes doubly for those instances. (Previous sloppy bar make-outs reveal your hand, so your job should be to temporarily disqualify yourself so she doesn’t think you are too easy.)
2. Do not kiss her at the end of the first date unless there was significant physical contact during the date. Multiply the awkwardness of the initial meeting kiss by ten and you will know the feeling of planting a night-ending wet one on a girl at the end of a date that was woefully free of any physical connection.
3. Do not attempt to force a nonexistent rapport by kissing the girl. This rule applies for any date, but its disregard is most evident on the first date. Many men will try to light a fuse in their dates by moving in for the kiss sans any physical groundwork, incorrectly thinking that their shared sterling, intellectual conversation was proof enough that she was ready for kissing. They are then flummoxed when she delivers the cheek turn, the “whoa, not so fast” rejoinder, or, worse, the “what do you think you’re doing?” lawyerspeak shut-down. Instead of the smooth move these men imagined in their heads it would be, they end up lurching clumsily from chit chat at a four foot distance to a lips-probing kiss flying in at the speed of light. Kissing is an emergent property of successfully executed game; it is not a standalone game maneuver that you can run in any context. If you haven’t escalated physical touching with a girl during a date, don’t think that a kiss after three hours of arms-crossed shop talk will advance the seduction.
4. Do not go for the first date kiss in a crowded room. Venue bounce, drink, venue bounce again, settle into a sofa at a lounge, make out. Most girls lie to themselves that they are “not that kind of girl”; why give a girl an excuse to test her self-delusions by moving in for the kiss where a huge crowd can analyze the depravity of her sluttiness?
5. The ideal first date kiss should happen sometime in the middle of the date. Kino escalation, growing intimacy, then kissing, followed by a cooling off push-away, more light banter, reinitiated kino, etc… if you can physically peak in the middle to last third of the date, you will leave her wanting more while simultaneously avoiding the dreaded last minute kiss of desperation that poisons so many dates. Mid-date physical peaking also prevents ASD (anti-slut defense).

So to sum up, don’t kiss at the very beginning or the desperate end of a first date, don’t force a kiss if she isn’t giving indicators of interest, escalate physical contact until you ideally begin kissing her in the middle to last third of a date, and wait to kiss her when you’re settled into an intimate location (this includes a back alley if the weather is warm).

Caveat: If you are going for a bust-or-bail first date same night lay, kiss her whenever the fuck you feel like it. An end-of-official-date kiss is simply a prelude to a beginning-of-unofficial-date night of fornication.

The ideal kiss window should open effortlessly if your game is tight. Girls who are being seduced properly *want* to be kissed. Always check for dilating pupils, hair twisting, leg opening, lip licking, heel dangling, head cocking, bar stool swiveling, drink swilling, incidental thigh touching, and hand on chin head propping.

To the reader: it’s hard to know if she’ll agree to a third date based on how you described the second date ending. It looks like you fell into the trap of overgaming to compensate for some fuck-ups you may have done on the first date, and to reestablish hand after she denied you the kiss when you playfully challenged her to one. In your zeal to demonstrate non-neediness, you forgot that you have to make a physical move on a girl to get the ball rolling toward sex. There is a fine line between slyly camouflaging your intentions and showing no intention at all. Two dates have now gone by without any kissing or intimate touching, from what you have written. This is a recipe for a seduction about to fizzle.

What you did by nonchalantly walking off was probably better than ending the date on an awkward goodnight cheek kiss where she held all the cards, but you shouldn’t have put yourself in that situation to begin with. Had you prepped the courtship by kissing her earlier in the evening (let’s say during drinks at the lounge), the date-ending goodbye would not have been a test of wills pitting your aloofness against her coyness. Sure, by unexpectedly denying her the long-awaited goodbye kiss of prostration you may have won the battle, but you lost the war well before your tepid final flanking maneuver.

In the future, push for kissing by the middle of the first date, but don’t overdo it. Making out with a girl for too long and too hard on the first date — again, unless you are gunning for a SNL — will gradually lower your value and, hence, raise her buyer’s remorse, leading to flaking on subsequent dates. The perfect seduction moves two steps forward, one step back. No kissing = celibate LJBF. Too much kissing = flaking. Ideal kissing = mid-date, in measured doses. You want to break the lip barrier without making a spectacle of your horniness.

Always remember that the alpha male demonstrates by his actions complete mastery over his sexual desire, and knows when and how to parcel it. A man with simmering, feral arousal that he can control is intoxicating to women. This is why make-outs followed abruptly by takeaways or teasing push-offs is so attractive to women — they love that they can’t figure out how much you really want to fuck them.

When you kiss on the first date, stop before she does, lean back to talk some more, and chastise her lightly for moving too fast. Repeat a couple times during the night, then hold her hand as you walk her home. Kiss her *before* you get to her door, then drop her off about twenty feet from her place (to reduce the impression of formality that surrounds a door-step departure), giving her a hug if you wish. Then tell her you had a great time AND LEAVE. Do not tell her you’ll call her, or try to set up a second date. Just leave, and she’ll thank you later, in the best way women know, for blessing her happily restless sleep that night with the inscrutability of your actions.

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How To Attract Girls By Doing Almost Nothing

Not absolutely nothing. (That would be silly advice for most men except famous dudes who can seduce simply by showing up.) But almost nothing. In the game of seduction, less is more.

Meeting for the first time

YOU: Hey.

HER: Hi.

YOU: Can I get your opinion on something? Won’t take a sec.

HER: Sure.

YOU: [look at her for a minute, then turn back to your drink]

HER: Are you going to ask?

YOU: Maybe later.

Texting

HER: I had a great time last night!

[three days later]

YOU: Ya me too.

[five minutes later]

HER: My phone was out for the past three days in case you were trying to call me.

YOU: Nope.

[She immediately calls.]

Calling and leaving a message on her voicemail

YOU: Hey. [click]

When she flakes

YOU: See you at 7.

HER: I forgot it was my sister’s birthday. I can’t make it. Another time!

YOU: gay.

When she plays hard to get

YOU: I’ve got Wednesday free.

HER: Ooh, I can’t do wednesday.

YOU: How about next Monday?

HER: That’s gonna be tough.

YOU: Too bad. [click]

The second date

HER: You know, I don’t do this on the second date. I’m not that type.

YOU: Cool.

HER: Cool? Ok, then… good.

YOU: [opening the front door]

HER: Where are you going? You don’t have to leave, you know.

YOU: Got to. Getting drinks with some girl who’s been bugging me lately.

HER: A girlfriend?

YOU: Pfft… who knows?

HER: [frantic] Ooookay… next time then? Promise you’ll–

YOU: [slam!]

Going out on a big date

HER: I’m ready to goooo!!!

[She steps out in a slinky black cocktail dress, waiting expectantly for a stream of flattery.]

YOU: Hold on… you got a hair out of place. There.

HER: Thanks?

YOU: You look alright.

Postcoital bliss

HER: God, that was great!

YOU: …

HER: I mean really good.

YOU: …

HER: Snuggle with me.

YOU: …

HER: I think I’m falling for you.

YOU: Sweet.

Birthdays

HER: Aww… um… a bag of Skittles.

YOU: There’s a note, too.

HER: [reading the post-it note stuck to the Skittles bag] ‘roses are red, violets are blue, don’t eat the green ones! you’re a great screw’.

YOU: [smiling with pride]

…Two days later, talking with her girl friend.

HER: He gave me a bag of Skittles for my birthday! What is that?! Does he love me?? What am I doing wrong? Is he seeing other women? Does he want more blowjobs? I practically got lockjaw last week!

Meeting her friends

HER: And this is my boyfriend, Jack… Jack? Where’d he go? Oh, he’s around here somewhere.

Farting in bed

YOU: BWAAAAP!

HER: Wow. Is the romance dead already?

YOU: BWAAAAP!

After a fight

HER: I can’t believe you were flirting with that girl at the party! Did you think I wouldn’t notice?

YOU: …

HER: Do you have anything to say for yourself?

YOU: Did you flood my toilet?

The 1AM booty call

YOU: Come over.

HER: omg are you serious?

[half hour later]

HER: U still up?

[another half hour later]

HER: Helllooo? U there?

YOU: Bring the movies.

The results of Do Almost Nothing Game look like this:

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An Analysis Of Text Game

The Chateau has received quite a few requests for text game advice lately. Here are a few.

Email #1

First of all, let me say thanks a ton for your insightful blog. Two months ago, I didn’t even know what game was. Largely due to reading your’s and Roosh’s blogs, I’m slowly climbing the ladder from greater beta (my natural element) toward alphadom. Two weeks worth of reading the knowledge contained within the catacombs of the Chateau helped me get a bang!

Today I got into a text conversation with a girl I’ve been banging, and I think I ran some solid text game with interesting results. The back story is that I’ve been sick, haven’t bothered contacting her in 4 days and she’s wondering where I’ve been. She’s asking if my illness is causing me to lose muscle mass and strength. See the relevant part of the conversation below:

Her: I’ve got an extra 5 lbs you can have 🙂

Me: Psh you don’t have any extra weight, I can bench press two of you

Her: You can huh? You only seemed to manage one of me at the pool!

Me: That’s shoulder press, totally different

Her: Let’s see this bench press then, sir!

Me: Find a girl of equal weight and I’ll bench the two of you in a stack. No dudes though, I ain’t no fruit!

Her: You just want to see me on top of another girl!

Me: She can be on top of you, I’m not picky

Her: As long as i get to pick her out… I’m not sold on your taste 😉

Me: I have impeccable taste, thankyouverymuch. However, I’ll allow you to pick your top 3 choices and then I’ll narrow it down

Her: You trust my taste in women then? I pick katty, sandy, or madi 🙂

Me: Kat heartily dislikes my presence, so she’s vetoed by executive decision. Pics of the other two???

Her: Hot mexican or skinny blonde?

Me: Blonde for the win

Her: Haha, i haven’t seen madi in a couple of months, but i’ll work on it.

Me: I’m down

Her: Haha but fist you have to prove you can bench press me by myself.

Me: I think I can handle that

Her: Haha, but maybe not when you’re sick

Me: Im getting better

Her: Well, what are you up to after my work tonight, mr. Healthy bench presser?

Me: After you’re done? How about I work on “bench pressing” you

Her: Haha, is that what the kids are calling it these days? I’ll give you a call after work 🙂

Me: You don’t know what bench pressing two girls at once means? Get with the times! I’ll talk to you tonight

It seems like she’s down for it. Any ideas on how to [keep] the momentum of this threesome idea building until it’s a reality?

Your protege in evil and debauchery,

“Anon”

Texting as a substitute for long-form conversation is somewhat beta in nature. You risk lowering your value by playing a “girl’s game”; and make no mistake, typing hundreds of witty replies back and forth sight unseen, your dick nowhere near her pussy, is playing by a girl’s rules. It is inescapably betatizing.

That said, these are new times, and it seems a lot of girls can’t flirt outside of a textual context. A by-line of grudging acceptance has been added to the Chateau Guest Rules to account for the reality of endless text game.

As for the emailer’s question about how to swing a threesome with this chick he’s banging and texting ad nauseam, there is only a sense from the exchange that she did not fully comprehend, or accept, the seriousness of his innuendo. It sounds like she is playing along for fun, not for profit. He’s on the right track by telling her to pick out the girls she would want to include in a threesome, but his tone is too glib, when he should be affecting a pose of laconic pimpery. She should feel a growing nervousness if his offer is taken under serious consideration by her. Such nervousness would manifest as stronger shit tests, which is how girls relieve their burgeoning arousal (which, in women, is always tainted with a hint of fear), yet her shit tests in this exchange are too playful and goofy to suggest anything other than she doesn’t really believe what he’s saying.

His tone, too, sounds overeager. There should be a disqualification in there somewhere, like “we’ll see”. He should wait two weeks before bringing up the subject again, (in order to neutralize the impression of eagerness), and when he does reintroduce the subject he should do so with more dominating gravitas.

One other point: a man never submits the coda to a text exchange (or, for that matter, a phone conversation), unless he is telling her he has to go. The last text should have been hers, when she wrote “I’ll give you a call after work :)”.

******

Email #2

Here is a great example of non sequitur game in action.

I felt I must share a recent experience I’ve had, and reiterate how truly powerful the non-sequitor game is, (not too mention the purely alpha possibilities it opens.)

When you posted your readers email and your comments/analysis on the email I was sitting on the couch, surfing the internet trying to decide which way my weekend was going to take me.  The obvious answer was to try what you had posted, I texted this super hot Russian-hole I’d met a couple weeks prior we had hung out a couple times prior.  I really felt I was getting close to the LJBF mode so I had stopped contacting her and was letting her ice.  The text coversation is as follows:

(2:35p) me:  sounds good

(2:35p) her: 🙂 ? What sounds good? 🙂

(2:47p) me:  my bad wrong person

(2:48p) her:  🙂 ok how r u?

(2:53p) me:  good

(2:55p) her:  🙂 I just woke up from a nap 🙂 thinking what im going to do today..

(3:08p)  her:  😦 no plans at all..for now i think maybe a movie later…

(4 :23p)  her:  still home, did you want to hang out? 🙂

(4:45p)  me:  not feeling the movie thing

(4:45p)  her:  it’s ok, we can do what you want, i can be ready in 20 minutes

(5:12p)  me:  yeah sounds good

(I re-use the opener to make reenforce that we’re only talking because I accidently texted and she chased me into hanging out)

(5:56p)  me:  on my way

I picked her up and we hung out, we went to bourbon street and I did everything I could to to continue the facade that I didn’t really even care about hanging out with her.  I smiled at every 8+ girl I saw, and let this guy continue to hit on her through much of the night, at one point my mom called (I know not cool, but my dad is chronically ill and when she calls that late something bad has usually happened… of course I never let the girl knew who called I simply just walked out of the bar, phone-to-ear, and got the intel on my dad.)  I was out for a few minutes, 3-5, when I came back in, I saw her at the bar with the guy that had been trying to game her.  Beta-man was buying her a drink, I walked up to the two and for the first time made a comment to the guy, “Having a good night?”  I’m not sure if he replied or not but she immediately asked who was on the phone, I just shook my head waiving off her question and went to restroom.  I came back out and her and Beta-man were still talking, the second I approached she left his side walked up to me and asked, “So, did you want to get a hotel?”  Of course, I responded, “Sure, let’s get out of here.”

I dropped a little bit of money on a hotel and had one of the wildest nights of my life.  From the minute we entered the room until we checked out the next morning I was covered in warm Russian love-butter.

I have always been fairly good at the game but this entry is powerful, it really emphasizes the power of text-game. This shit is evil good and must be added to everyone’s playbook that is trying to capitalize on a number you have but can’t seem to f-close.

When we left the hotel on the ride home she asked why I don’t have a girl friend and I told her that I get bored easy, telling her, “When I meet a girl I buy a gallon of milk, and when it expires I get rid of her.”  I have no idea where that line came from but it just flowed out effortlessly, in the couple weeks since the f-close it has been nothing but her chasing me, trying to not beat the expiration date rule.

+1 for aloofness and non-sequitor game.

Indeed, young padawan. Not only is this a fantastic example of non sequitur game, it is also a clinic in how to properly run aloof and indifferent uncaring asshole game. As has been written here before, Russian chicks are especially vulnerable to aloof game. Privet!

******

Email #3

Went on a date with a 22 year old 8.5.

She was dumb and aloof as shit (she literally has ADD, and it shows), but hot as shit. Immediate shit test: she comes in talking on the phone and doesn’t hang up when we sit down. I go to the bathroom and come back and she’s off the phone. Exceedingly difficult to talk to, it’s like she’s 15. after 1.75 hours and 2 beers, we bounced. Enough IOIs that I kissed her and we continued to make out on the street. Brought her back to my place to party with roommates, despite the fact that she said she had to get up early for a family gathering. She got shy and reserved and sucked. She was ruining my night, so I drove her home. Kissed more in the car, but she seemed more reserved on the way home.

Texted her 48 hours later: was the family gathering as fun as you envisioned?

her: it was ok. i only watched on race though. [gathering was at a race track]

me: haha. wtf did you do the whole time then?

her: i chased around a 5 year old and drank

me: lol. what’s your week looking like, we need to have our second date.

her: it’s shark week this week.

me: i live every week like it’s shark week.

No response. Her texts were always dry short, before and after we had the date. She will not text again, it’s not her style. What should I do AND What should I have done? I still want to pierce her labia.

Texting a girl after a difficult date is approval-seeking. It won’t help, and it could hurt your future chances with her. If you want to know how well a date went (as perceived by the girl, which, hate to say, is the perception that matters for getting laid), see if she texts you first. Girls who feel good after dates will often, in fact almost always, text you soon after the date has ended. They can’t help themselves. It’s like they want to shout their tingles from the top of a mountain.

Your text exchange started off badly and didn’t get any better. You are forcing rapport by asking about her family gathering when she knows you don’t really give a shit, and by dropping random “lol”s and “haha”s in reaction to her sub-par humor.

Also, when asking for a second date, never say “we need to…”. “Need” is a verboten beta word, passive and weak. You should banish its use from all your interactions with women. Instead, say “Let’s get together”, or even “I want to see you again”.

Make no mistake, her shark week excuse was a humiliating rejection so patently absurd that I’m surprised you even bothered taking her seriously after that. Your subsequent reply was beyond lame. No wonder she didn’t respond. The world could practically hear her pussy snapping shut.

What you should have done: “Bring the movies”. Text a second date meeting time and place and tell her the first round is on her. It sounds like the first date was a loss, so a follow-up from her was unlikely, and as we can see a “normal” text feeler from you did not have any positive impact on whatever lukewarm feelings she had for you. Going forward, you may want to try non sequitur game, like the emailer above. But more probably you will have to NEXT this girl.

******

Email #4

Comments from the Chateau about this man’s text game are interspersed in bold.

This is my first time writing you, so let me say thanks for putting out what I consider to be the most important site on the web for males. I am a natural beta and this site has had an incredible positive impact on my quality of life and happiness.

Anyway, an old girlfriend texted me out of the blue yesterday and the exchange is below. I don’t really want a relationship with her again, but I do hang out a lot in the town she currently lives in and wouldn’t mind keeping open the possibility for a late night rendezvous. My goal with this exchange was basically to ignite some gina tingles for a potential meetup in the future.

Quick Backround: We dated for about a year. She broke up with me about a year ago for some BS reason, but after discovering your site, I realized it was because I had become pathetically beta. She’s 23 now ( I’m 24) and works for a huge accounting firm in NYC. She was probably a solid 6-7 back when we dated, I attached a picture for reference (sorry I couldn’t find any nudes). [Ed: Accurate ranking. She’s a 6.] I’ve added any explanatory comments in italics.

Her (12:17 AM): I miss you

Me (7:03 AM): cant say I blame you

Her (9:01 AM): Do you miss me?

Me (11:32 AM): What do you miss most about me?

[Excellent deflection and reframe.]
(All of the below texts were sent within 15 minutes of the previous one)

Her: We had fun together

Me: Do you know what I miss most about you?

Her: What

Me: Big boobs (seriously, 34D @ 5’5’’ 125)

Her: If that’s the case then I guess that doesn’t say much about our relationship

Me: Just sayin they were nice. It’s a compliment. Anyway I recall you ended it

Her: I know. I was in the wrong.

Me: Is this your way of trying to get back together?

Her: No I am just telling you

[She’s lying. No girl contacts an ex out of the blue unless she wants to be with him again. Watch Swingers.]

Me: Its ok you don’t have to be coy about it

Her: LOL do you really expect me to randomly say after like a year  lets get back together

Me: Hey im not the one sending random I miss you texts

Her: OK then sorry I won’t say anything

Me: Don’t get upset. Anyway I meant what I said

Her: You meant what?

Me: That I miss your boobs. They were fun to play with

[The boob joke was funny at first, but now is overplayed. If you want to convert her to a fuckbuddy you have to, at some point, show a little attainability, which means curbing the cocky/funny act and assuaging her female sensibility. You run the risk here of overqualifying (out-assholing) yourself.]

Her: Great thanks

Me: What fun things do you miss most about us?

Her: Doesn’t matter

[No surprise that she is clamming up with regret. You could have jumped straight into comfort stage with her because your value was already sky high.]

Me: Hey don’t get upset. I wanna know what it was.

Her: We just had a great time together in my opinion

Me: Like what specifically? Im trying to remember

[This is a great asshole line, but might be counterproductive at this point.]

Her: Are you still in east Brunswick? (my hometown, moved back after college and am still here for now)

[Now she’s redirecting the conversation.]

Me: No actually I moved to california

Her: Really or are you joking

Me: Haha got me. Still in NJ. You never answered my question still.

[Good save to regain convo leadership.]

Her: Our trips. Relaxing. Movies. I moved to Hoboken (In NJ, Directly across the river from NYC. Known for its many bars and single young professionals)

Me: Its nice there. Easy to meet a lot of people. How do you like it?

Her: I love it

Me: I should tell you im getting married

Her: What?

Me: Yeah I should have mentioned it before

Her: Congrats

Me: Haha just joking. Cmon I thought you were sharper than that. Do you really think Id do that to myself?

Her: Why wouldn’t you what to get married? I do

Me: I don’t blame you. I just don’t think im marriage material. Its too hard to pick one person forever

Her: Maybe. But when you love someone you know I feel Just because you didin’t feel that way about me doesn’t mean you won’t (WTF??)

[Don’t sweat it. This seemingly disqualifying reply is just the female hamster spinning to death. She’s trying to trap you into chasing her.]

Me: What? That didn’t make sense

Her: Nevermind

Me: Haha ok. you must still be drunk from last night. So what do you do for fun in Hoboken?

Her: No I’m not. I’ve been working a lot and studying for my last part of the cpa. But I run and like the bars around

Me: Cool. Im sure you do work a lot. Are you partner yet? (I know it takes 15 yrs to make partner there)

Her: Soon. Another year

Me: Yeah you wish. For real do you know what the best way to get promoted is?

Her: Don’t even start. I’m sure you going to say something sex related

Me: Haha so you know its to sleep with your boss? Maybe you really will be partner in a year then…

Her: You’re def not the guy I used to know

[Normally, this admission would be a good thing, but since she contacted you first she already had it in her head that she wanted to fuck you again. Therefore, your cocky asshole act may be backfiring and driving her away.]

Me: That’s not true. Im still as ruggedly good looking and charming as ever

Her: K

[The banter was good, but went on for too long. Again, you likely overplayed your hand by revving your engine in the attraction phase without switching gears into a smooth cruise of genuine rapport. You needed to get real with her so she had the flimsy excuse she sought to rationalize sleeping with you again. And don’t focus so much on dating vs fucking and moving her into the FB zone. That will work itself out *after* you start banging. Keep your eyes on the prize.]

This is a decent representation of my text game and the type of attitude and banter I try to get over on the phone. I’d love to hear your comments about what I said, my frame, and overall alphaness from this. I think this is a good litmus test considering how this relationship ended and where I am now. Also, any suggestions from you as how to proceed from here would obviously be appreciated.

Thanks again,
“Anon”

Your overall alphaness was try-hard lesser alpha. You have lost sight of the sweeter brushstrokes of game in favor of the crowd-pleasing fireworks. Regulate yourself before you celibate yourself. In the future, if you talk to her again, make sure it is face-to-face, and keep your mouth shut. Her hamster will find a way into your pants. After that, manage the relationship in the direction you want it to go. To convert her to a fuckbuddy, this is easy: just refrain from talking to her or taking her out more than once per week, and never on the weekends.

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